The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draft Buzz, Plus Nick Kroll Finally Comes On | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 377)

Episode Date: June 13, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons talks with Kevin O'Connor about the upcoming NBA draft, the trade value of the no. 1 pick, how this year compares with recent drafts, who will claim Luka Doncic, what the Cavs might do, and more (3:22). Then Bill sits down with actor, writer, and producer Nick Kroll to talk about old-school sports radio, 'The League,' TV streaming culture, 'Big Mouth' Season 2, filming 'Uncle Drew,' hosting award shows, and more (55:48). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Having a high sports IQ is important. Just look at the NBA lottery right now. You might have a top 10 pick, but if your GM doesn't know what he's doing, you're screwed. When it comes to hiring, you don't need a high hiring IQ. All you need is ZipRecruiter. They're powerful technology scans, thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience for your job. 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through this site in just one day. This is not how we found Kevin O'Connor.

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You can basically sit in the first five rows of any ballpark for negative $40. Don't quote me on that price, but it's very close. Check that out. Download the SeatGeek app or go right to SeatGeek.com. Don't forget to check out the ringer.com. That is where our excellent draft guide resides. That is where Robert Mays' awesome oral history of Gaslight Anthem went up today. And he interviewed Bruce Springsteen. Bruce Springsteen called him back. Bruce. This is a good lesson for you, KOC. You never know. Yeah, exactly.

You never know. Just put the thing in. All of a sudden, Bruce Springsteen's calling you back for your oral history. Yeah, they say, screw you, and then you move on to the next person. So check that out. We are in the middle of summer movies right now, the draft. There's always something going on at the ringer. Check out the Mallory Rubin, Jason Concepcion,

Binge Mode Harry Potter podcast, season three. All Harry Potter started today. I think they're putting up five episodes this week. And we're just trying to prevent them from not overdosing on coffee. It's very possible. They just go back and forth from Starbucks and tape podcasts.

So check that out. And check out the Dave Chang Show, which is going up this week. And it's an important one. So I would subscribe to that one now. And I would also subscribe to Against All Odds because Cousin Sal had his appendix out two days ago and still recorded Against All Odds

because he wanted to get US Open bets in. And I don't know where it compares to MJ's flu game. I guess maybe the stakes were a little higher with the flu game. We could have just called the podcast better than LeBron's hand, right? Better than LeBron's hand, because we know for a fact that his appendix got taken out. We'll never know what happened with LeBron's hand coming up,

Kevin O'Connor. We're going to talk about the draft and, uh, Oh, I forgot to plug one more thing. The HBO show courtside at the NBA Finals that we executive produced here.

I spent about 12 days at the finals. It's going to be Tuesday, June 19th. Put that on your calendars. It's cool. It's different. I will tell you more next week when we get closer. Coming up, we're going to talk to Kevin O'Connor and the Nick Kroll. First, Pearl Jam. All right, KOC is here.

You can hear him on a bunch of our Ringer NBA podcasts. He is the biggest contributor we have to the NBA draft guide. That is fantastic. It has been updated now. The mock draft, 0.4, we're up to now? I think fourth one right now. Should be doing another one pretty soon. I told Juliet, just keep doing points, 0.5 points.

Like, oh, Jackson's climbing that time for another mock draft let's keep going i'm ready for like 20 versions we'll do another one maybe we'll do one a day leading up to the draft so number one we're so first of all on monday we're going to do a lottery mock draft on this podcast and we're going to have ringer staffers that are somehow connected to every team pick every slot love it i forget where we had you i think we might have given you the one spot okay um i'm the phoenix suns but it's it's a guess for it's not who i would take care it's who i think they're gonna take okay which is an important distinction because sometimes when we do these and we've done a

few of them over the years you know you're like i think luca donchic should go first and that and then you're doing this whole mock draft that's not actually going to happen ayton's going to go first that doesn't seem like that's changed i kept waiting for like somebody else to make a run yeah i don't see it happening i'm wondering where where the uh the the fake is where's the fake out that it's going to be somebody else it hasn't happened yet for phoenix all indications are that it's gonna be deandre ayton and it's always been deandre ayton and you're okay with this yeah it's fine i think ayton's a wonderful prospect potentially a two-way dominant two-way player i mean there's a lot of knocks on his defense um but there's no denying that he's an elite athlete he's shown mobility he's somebody who long term could become a great

defensive player but it's the offense that's what's going to make him the number one pick with his three point shooting ability off the dribble lob dunk ability he's he's definitely a ferocious offensive player potentially on the draft guide we have shades of patrick ewing carl anthony towns and demarcus cousins so i'm guessing the athleticism of a younger Ewing, the three-point ability of Towns, and then just kind of the potential to overpower when he gets bigger of Cousins. For sure. And then also with Boogie, there's the defensive weakness. Yes. If he doesn't pan out on that end of the floor where Boogie has always been a bit of a liability on the defensive end of the floor. A bit of a liability is kind. He just doesn't try on positions.

He doesn't try. Exactly. And if Aiton does become that guy long-term, well, I mean, he's going to hurt you. But even with an elite offensive skill set, I think Aiton should be the number one guy based on Phoenix's roster. I mean, we saw this last year with Boston between Fultz and Tatum. You have to factor in need a little bit,

even though you're still picking the best, quote-unquote, best player available. It's still a factor. I like that he produced in college. I do. I do care about that. I think whatever basketball game at whatever level, especially if I'm taking somebody number one, I like to know that if it's a center, they're putting up 2011 every night, no matter

who the competition is. And it's a good sign. Yeah. And the thing is, it's not just scoring and rebounding to like, he's a pretty good passer for his position. He's not like a Nikola Jokic type. He's not an elite passer, but he can make really strong kickout passes off the roll. He can do a lot of things out there on the floor.

What is the trade value of this pick, just out of curiosity? I've been messing around with trying to figure out what the trade value right now is. Basically, if I did a trade value list this summer how many people would we have to list before we get to oh they would trade that person for the number one pick I'll give you some names okay

Giannis Davis, Durant, Curry, Harden none of those guys are in play LeBron is not in play Tatum, Simmons, Mitchell I. None of those guys are in play. LeBron is not in play. Tatum, Simmons, Mitchell, I don't think they're in play. Nope. I don't think so, no. There's nine.

Embiid. Nope. Jokic? I'd think about it if I'm Denver because of his weaknesses on defense. Who hangs up first, Phoenix or Denver? Probably Phoenix, I would think. I think Phoenix does too. I would think so. Interesting though.

That's a good one. I would do it if I were Denver for what it's worth. But I'm not as high on Jokic as a lot of people are. Well, he might be worse defensively. Exactly. I think the other thing, the contract stuff's the big thing to me. You get eight now,

and if he's giving you anything, like think about Tatum right now. This is my case for why Tatum is one of the five most untradeable assets in the league. You have four more years of him at a rookie contract. Exactly. And the money needs to be factored in, whereas Jokic is about to get paid. He's about to get paid big. So would you rather pay him 22 or eight and six?

That's no contest. And Jokic helps you more now, to be fair. He's a really, really good player. He's an unbelievable passer. He helps you finish in the late lottery. Yeah, that's no contest. And Jokic helps you more now, to be fair. Yeah. I mean, he's a really, really good player. He's an unbelievable passer. He helps you finish in the late lottery. Yeah, that's kind of the issue. Yeah. Oladipo and Booker.

No to Booker. Oladipo, no. No? So we're moving way down the list. I think if you're Indiana, you're not going to trade Victor Oladipo at this point. So you think Phoenix calls Indiana and says, I'll give you the number one for Oladipo.

I think Indiana hangs up. I think so, the number one for Oladipo. I think Indiana hangs up. I think so too. I think they have a meeting. Are we devaluing the number one pick right now? I'm just trying to figure out what it's worth. But the next group, Kyrie, Westbrook, Kawhi, Lillard, Clay, and Beal. Beal, I think you got to think about it. For $25 million a year, I'd rather have Aiden.

Well, yeah. On the other side, if you're Washington, for sure, you're doing that. If you're Phoenix, still no. Westbrook, no, just because OKC can't trade him because he's the only person who got roped into signing long-term. No, they have him trapped now. Stockholm syndrome. And I think Lillard, you'd need more than the number one. Yeah, I would agree.

The other guys, though, then when it goes down, you're talking about Porzingis, Jalen Brown, Brandon Ingram. Yeah, so you could argue that this is an above-average draft. Yeah, it's very good. Because the number one prize of this draft would not get swapped for everybody except for about 15 guys. Yeah, I think this year's draft, you have Luka Doncic and DeAndre kind of on their own, in my opinion.

But the Doncic is cooling. Which is very odd. You know why it's odd? Not odd? Because five of the six people drafting in this top six are teams you would want to trade with because they have not done a lot of intelligent stuff over the last few years.

Fair. Fair. However, you know. Let's go through them sacramento at two very fair atlanta at three i'm not even sure who's running well travis schlenk got hired last year so unproven but who's travis schlenk i don't even know who that is yeah i mean i mean he's he's been in the Warriors for years. Have you met Travis Schlenk? I have met Travis once, yes. Wait a second. What's the Schlenk family like?

I don't know. I couldn't tell you, Bill. Travis Schlenk. Okay. Chris Wallace of Memphis, who has... It's hard to even narrow it down to the top four Chris Wallace boners of the 21st century. But he's had a lot of boners. It's like Viagra across with the GM. Chris Vernon will tell you about Hashim Tabit. That was a car crash that was happening in the moment.

It's not like a year later you go, oh, man, in retrospect. No, it was like, why are you doing this? Don't take Hashim Tabit here. We'll probably talk about Bamba later, but that's one of my problems with the Bamba Tabit thing. Yeah, he's more athletic. Tabit, you knew when the draft was happening like not an elite athlete not not really the hardest worker there was all these question marks but we'll say though drummond had the most of the

same question marks fair and he dropped to nine and even at nine it felt like oh man that's kind of a wasted pick and the camera kept showing him and he had this sad look on his face but i think that was an important night for him i think i think it actually kind of lit a fire under his ass. I always think of Aaron Rodgers when I think about players dropping in the draft. Just the sad look of him in the green room until 23rd pick or whatever it was and the Packers took him. Well, that's the thing with the draft. And I did a piece for Grantland, I think, in 2014 where I went back and redrafted everybody and tried to figure out was there any rhyme or reason. And the reality is, there isn't.

It's, you look at the 2013 draft, Giannis, I think, went 15. 15, yep. Gobert was 27. McCollum was 10. Jokic was in the 30s. Three best guys. And Jokic was 41.

Yeah, 41, yeah. I know he was the year after, though. Okay, yeah, fair, yeah. He was. But just year after year, I would actually say the last two years have been the closest to chalk that we've had you know if it's if mitchell is in the fault spot last year that top three is basically what the top three would be now right with with

tatum and uh lonzo i still think would be one of the top three pins will be good and then the year before jaylen brown and uh ben simmons and ingram yep that wouldn't change i don't think that would be one of the top three pads will be good and then the year before Jalen Brown and Ben Simmons and Ingram yep that wouldn't change I don't think that would change no so maybe we're getting better at this wait we're not because

Luka Doncic is gonna fall out of the two I don't think we are getting better and I think I think these past couple of drafts have just been really really really good up

top yeah I think it gets hard again next year and maybe in the following years it's tough to project so far ahead but I think the last couple years we've just, really good up top. I think it gets hard again next year. And maybe in the following years, it's tough to project so far ahead. But I think the last couple of years, we've just had really good drafts. 13 is the last really weak one we've had. This is my kind of draft. You can see the car crashes and the mistakes coming.

2013 was like this, too. And I was lucky enough to do that draft for ESPN. But we had, there were just red flag guys everywhere. It was like New Orleans Noel, Anthony Bennett, Alex Lenn. Everywhere you looked, you were like, ah, Cody Zauer. Ooh. It was a lot of that. Everybody had big question marks

in that draft. Yeah. Everybody. And this one feels the same way. Would it shock you if Michael Porter played 180 career games? Would it shock you? Yeah, it 180 career games? Would it shock you? Yeah, it would. Honestly.

It would shock you. Well, because of the injury, you're saying. He's got a bad back. It seems like he should be able to get through it. It seems like it. It seems like it. But that's my point. It wouldn't shock you.

Would it shock you if Marvin Bagley was just never in the second round of the playoffs in his entire career? That wouldn't shock me, no. Would it shock you if Trey Young was playing in China seven years from now? No, I don't think it would. I'm writing about this for tomorrow, actually. These are all top

ten picks. I don't think Trey Young will be playing in China in seven years for what it's worth. However, I do think there's a chance he goes through some of the difficulties like a Trey Burke did. Coming in as projected as a high-volume scorer. You're not strong enough. But yeah, not big enough, not strong enough. Very lean, very small.

Going to be really attacked on the defensive end of the floor. He's not good at all on that end. His offense needs to be great. He needs to be a great offensive player, which he could be, but if he's not, that puts him closer to Trey Burke than Stephen Curry. Usually the draft has more of the Jaron Jackson types of just like,

I know what that guy is. He'll be good. Just like, yeah, he's going to make it. It's just a question of how good he's going to be, but Al Horford was like that coming out of college. He's like, that guy's going to be good. I don't know how good he's going to be, but he's going to be good. This draft has a lot of these high ceiling, low basement

guys where I could see, depending on the team, you think about how many crazy teams are in the top six, all of them could just get infatuated with somebody like Sacramento's second pick. I could totally see them taking Mo Bamba. I could totally see it. They do like Michael Porter.

I don't know what they're capable of, but it doesn't seem like they're going to take Donchich, which you and I both think is a mistake. You're more high on Bamba now. Yeah, I mean, I have Donchich ahead of Bamba. Donchich is still my number one. But you wouldn't be outraged if Bamba went to... I wouldn't.

I wouldn't. I think Mo Bamba... I mean, we've talked about this before. We haven't talked about it on a podcast. We haven't talked about it on a podcast. Let's save Mo Bamba. Okay, let's save it. Sacramento is the perfect team to pick number two.

It's this pick that is a perennial black cat pick. It's always bad luck. It's had some of the biggest busts we've ever had in the history of the league. Some of the biggest mistakes that have ever been made in the 70 plus year of the National Basketball Association. Now you have a pick here, number two. All the signs are there for this train crash that I've witnessed before with the draft. And there's three different signs saying

it's going to happen again. They're going to pass Luka Doncic. They're going to take somebody. He's going to be a bus. Sacramento. Oh my God, here we go. And I can't stop it. I feel like it's like that Sliding Doors movie where you can't go through the door.

It is intriguing, though, that it seems like Luka is the guy falling when the entire year he's basically been widely considered one of the most accomplished teenage players ever to enter the draft, which is fact based on everything he's accomplished. He's an elite passer. Basket iq is off the charts his shooting is developing off the dribble looks like harden-esque at times he has a finishing move he has that step back three already he's 18 he's got a step back three if he's a a six foot eight version of a goran drajic has his floor that's a really good player for a really long time. A Hito Turkoglu type for his floor. I really

think that's what he could be easily. Especially what level he reaches. I love that he's in that Harden-Ginobili kind of DNA class. Harden-Ginobili to me is one of my favorite kind of comparisons that don't make sense, but then it actually makes a shitload of sense. They don't look alike.

They're two guys that couldn't be any different at all or any more different. But from the get-go, when Harden was coming off the bench for OKC and became their sixth man, it was like, this is Manu 2.0. I never thought he'd be a MVP. And those are the comps we have in the draft.

James Harden, Jumbo, Manu Ginobili, and then Tyreek Evans is like a lower-end comp. Like if a shooting never develops. That's your worst- case scenario is Tyreek Evans I just think he's I wouldn't have agreed with that one because I think he's too good of a passer those skip passes he makes across the court

at age 18 I don't think we factor age enough with the draft like I feel the same way about Kevin Knox so I've been doing research on publicly he's not 19 yet Kevin Knox publicly we don't but privately like in the league the league they age they know i'm saying the fans yes yeah what was tatum when he got he was tatum was 19 until march yeah so he was so he was just turned 18 so flipping around

he's just turned 19 when he got drafted sorry that should matter yeah it does matter and that's why kevin knox as you mentioned to somebody like every you know, when it comes to scouting the draft around like late May or early June, I try to like just reset and just go back and look at everybody. Like, what did I miss? What did I overvalue or undervalue? And Kevin Knox, it's like, wait a minute, six foot nine, not even 19 years old yet. Fluid off the dribble. He can shoot from NBA range from three.

He shows flashes defensively he's really really athletic so it's like why do i have this guy ranked 15th so i'm bumping it i think every team feels that way yeah and that's what could happen i've heard there's some buzz for him in the middle of the lottery heard nicks like him they worked him out recently um against miles he's the type of guy every team wants when the when you're in the middle of the season and there's just not enough six foot seven to six foot nine guys who can shoot and be athletic i mean he could be we're so envious of the celtics for sure and he could be like a better tobias harris type oh yeah i mean i think tobias harris is a realistic outcome for him but there there's there's more to his game considering the

fact he's only 18 years old as you said did they go to him in kentucky in a go-to way or was he just like an auxiliary part of it was the system where it was really you know equal opportunity for everybody across the board part of it was him being passive at times it felt like um but then there's moments where he i think scored maybe 30 ish points against west virginia earlier in the season and that's a game to go back and watch and it's like okay him five years from now in a go-to scoring role where he's fed the ball, this is what you can get. It's a good defensive team, too, to put up 30 on. I think he's intriguing.

And you could just make the case when in doubt, take a 6'8 guy who can play on the perimeter and shoot threes and play defense. And he's about a year younger than Michael Porter. I think a better ball handler at this stage than Michael Porter. Granted, we haven't seen Porter. I haven't seen him in a workout, so maybe handle is improved but at the college level Knox is better handling than Porter was last we saw in high school which obviously in order to be a great go-to scorer in

the league you got to be able to handle the ball you got to be able to create and for Porter that to me is the big question mark more so than his health even I like some of the Porter quotes he certainly has high confidence in himself. You like the confidence. I do. And now it could go the wrong way in the Michael Beasley way. Or D'Angelo Russell. Yeah.

D'Angelo Russell is a bad teammate. Like that's a whole different, it doesn't seem like Porter, there's no evidence that he's a bad teammate, right? I mean, here's the thing with Russell. Like in high school, I've heard that like he was super humble. Like he appreciated his

rise up the rankings because he was a late that la thing ruined him yeah and then it's like he fell into a certain situation where that cockiness that developed manifested into him being a bad teammate as you mentioned and maybe he changes his matures in brooklyn didn't happen last year yeah he when he came back from injury that team fell fell apart completely. The Knox thing is a nice little monkey wrench for this because I really liked Mikael Bridges on Villanova, but he's three years older than Knox. So I would look at somebody like Knox and ask myself, in three years, is this guy going to be as good as Bridges right now?

The answer has to be yes, right? Yep. So why wouldn't he go ahead of him? I think that's how it's going to play out. I think so too. I think Mikael Bridges is very interesting. Bridges is going to follow the Clippers. You think 12 or 13?

I think he falls to 12 or 13. Because two teams will make a mistake and pull guys into the top 12 we didn't even realize. And all of a sudden, they're going to get one of them. I think the Clippers are in a good spot. I think Philadelphia could take him at 10. Maybe. We'll see about that.

But I'm not sure any higher than that in the draft. I think 10 could potentially be his ceiling. And Trae Young is the big swing guy, right? He could go six. He could go 14. We just have no idea. I mean, that's the thing is like, if he doesn't go to six to Orlando, I wonder, depending on how the board shakes out, I know at nine, Knicks like him.

After that, I don't know. I love the fact Sacramento, really the only thing they don't need is a point guard. You could make the case, if I were them, I would take Luka too, and I would trade Darren Fox, and I would offer Darren Fox to Memphis at four. They'd say no.

Orlando at six. I think both of them would say no. For Fox? Yeah, I do. Fox hasn't proven that he can shoot at a high level yet. I really like Fox. I do too. Would you take him if you're the Knicks at nine?

Depends on who else is on the board. If you're trading Michael Porter for Colin Sexton, I'm sorry, for De'Aaron Fox, no. If you're trading Miles Bridges, I'll think about it. How about Cavs at eight? I prefer Wendell Carter, who I think will be there for them. I like him. He's going to be solid. I'm a big Carter fan.

I don't have a Bagley, which seems nuts. You know what? I actually might agree with that because it did seem like he was discounted at Duke, at least the games I saw. I never understood why they weren't feeding him more. Marvin Bagley clearly was the better college

player, better scorer, more athletic. Put up stats. He puts up big numbers. He helped that team on the offensive end of the floor, but that doesn't always mean you're going to be better in the nba it doesn't mean you're always going to make a a better impact towards winning carter to me is a great passer for his position he can shoot threes he can he's a better athlete than he gets credit for like he occasionally will throw down lob dunks yeah and defensively he gets knocked for being a plotting big and i just i don't see it i i think

i think he's a good athlete not a great one but he's very smart hard-working player who has a lot of skills that tend to translate to the nba so for me it's like he looks like an al horford type of player doesn't mean he'll reach that level defensively horford is elite on the defensive end of the floor yeah but carter at least is is in that mold to become just an all-around impact player who can maybe be even a little bit better offensively down the line. And Horford was a great athlete in college. And it was just a 0% chance he wasn't going to be a good pro.

I remember the Celtics lost to Rand and Oden that lottery. But I was also really disappointed they didn't get Horford. It seemed like it was impossible for them not to be in the top three. And then to not get any of those guys. If they'd gotten Hor really disappointed they didn't get Horford. It seemed like it was impossible for them not to be in the top three and then to not get any of those guys. If they'd gotten Horford, they don't trade for Ray Allen, and I'm not sure how that whole KG thing goes. I mean, that's the fascinating thing to me with the draft,

which always makes it so exciting. It's like right now we're doing all these mock drafts. We're trying to figure out where these guys are going to go, but there's going to be trading opportunities that come over the next week that's going to just completely wipe out all the mock draft preparation and everything. And it's going to insert this variables into teams destinies. Like if you're trading up for a guy, that means you need to feel supremely confident that he is going to be the guy that changes your franchise. Well, we've seen we've seen work out for teams to with Mitchell.

We saw it work out last year. Right. Fultz doesn't look good. We have some cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs teams in there. Sacramento too. Who the hell even knows what they need or value or want? Atlanta at three, they just don't even have a roster. They have Dennis Schroeder.

They need everything. Collins. Do they even have another guy that you would care about? DeAndre Bambery, Tayshaun Prince Sorry, I misspoke. Toreen Prince. I like Toreen Prince. Yeah, he's good. So three and a half guys. They have some guys

but not the guy. Do they have a guy that anyone is going to pay more than $20 for a ticket for? No. That's why that team could get sucked into Bagley. Be like, hey Bagley, come see Marvin Bagley. He's going to score 20 points and get 11 rebounds a game, and we're going to go 28-54.

I mean, that's the intriguing thing. Buy the Marvin Bagley jersey. I've heard Marvin Bagley and Michael Porter for Sacramento. I've heard Marvin Bagley and Jaron Jackson for Atlanta. And then for Memphis, Bagley also seems to be on their list too. And I do wonder, maybe for those teams, it is partially that where Bagley offers that immediate return where he's going to come in and he's going to be good right away. He could easily be a favorite for rookie of the year. Oh, yeah.

No doubt about it. He'll put up the numbers. No doubt. And that's an appeal for a franchise that's like, we need something now. We need something now. And that's, again, could be one of the reasons why Luka could be slipping because there's just athleticism questions. But to me, it's like, if you want someone to help you right away, Luka's the guy with his passing ability and his shooting ability,

his shooting potential. I think Luka's the one who helps immediately. If they don't take Luka, what's their GM's name? Travis Schlenk. I'm going to have a problem with Travis Schlenk. Travis, what are you doing? This guy could be a superstar in Atlanta. Atlanta said Dominique was the last player they've had

that anyone's given a shit about. But so could Jaron Jackson, though. Jaron Jackson is a guy... He's not a superstar. You're not paying $120 to go see Jaron Jackson. We just talked about age, and J jackson also is only 18 years old still one of the youngest guys in the draft he's really really fantastic on the defensive end of floor seven five wingspan nine foot two standing reach really good athlete a high character kid

i can't i would never knock somebody for taking jaron jackson over donchich no i just i can't come on and as much as i love luca donch, there's still no denying the fact that in today's NBA, really, like, you need to be able to create off the dribble, and that's the biggest question. You know what? I'm not allowing you on the Doncic bandwagon. You're off. Even though I'm a right number one.

No, I don't care. I don't care. I love Luka. I don't like your commitment. I love Luka. I don't like your commitment. We're all in on this one. I just feel like I value Biggs more than you.

That's what it is. Every once in a while, there's an NBA draft thing that pops up and you have to pick a side. It was this way with Steph Curry. It was this way with Duran or Oden. It was this way. I can't think who else. Ben Simmons was a good one. Jabari versus Andrew Wiggins.

Granted, that hasn't been that interesting, but it was one. I was all in on Embiid going first that year and then he got hurt yeah me too but I think that was the correct take this one I think people have to go on the record and either go all in or not I'm going all in I think it's a massive mistake for him not to go

first in this draft I would agree over Aiden even I 100% agree I would take him over every dude this is crazy that he's not going to go number one. I can't. I thought it was like a smokescreen and apparently it's not. But I feel like you and I value bigs differently. So it's like I can understand

the logic of taking a big man because I think they're very important in heading into this next era in the 2020s. And with Luka, there are question marks. I think he should be the number one pick. I would take him number one. I would not even really think about it. I think he's the number one guy. I think you're covering your bases. You're covered both ways. Luca's going to be in the league for a very long time.

Luca, if you're listening, you know who cares. Don't invite KOC to your MVP party. I want the invite. Hold on. I want to take a break. Hey, the U.S. Postal Service is an important tool for any business reaching every household every day. Stamps.com brings all the amazing services of the U.S. Postal Service right to your fingertips. Buy and print officially U.S. postage with your own computer and printer. Stamps.com even sends you a digital scale that automatically calculates exact postage and they have postage discounts you can't get at the post office. It is the U.S. Postal Service right at your fingertips. Any letter, any package, any class of mail, you're in control of all of it. You know why I love stamps.com? I like handing my outgoing mail and packages right to my

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YouTube show hosted by Jason Concepcion. This week is really funny. The LeBron James, J.R. Smith statues from game one of the 2018 finals were brought to Hollywood Boulevard and people reacted. Please check it out. It's a great show.

We're very proud of it. All right, back to KOC. All right, we're back. We've established that KOC doesn't get invited to Luka Doncic's MVP party. The first one. You get invited to the third one. He wins his third MVP. Three-time MVP, Luka Doncic's MVP party. The first one. You can get invited to the third one when he wins his third MVP.

Three-time MVP, Luka Doncic. So we do value players differently because I think the most important thing to have is a guy who can create in the last five minutes of a game. I'm with you. He can do that. I'm not sure Jaron Jackson can. I think Jaron Jackson sounds like he would be

absolutely the guy who could be the second best guy on a championship team if his career goes the right way. that. I'm not sure Jaron Jackson can. I think Jaron Jackson sounds like he would be an absolutely the guy who could be the second best guy on a championship team if his career goes the right way. I don't think he'd be the best guy. I think Donchich can be the best guy. Now people are split on that. I've talked to people in the league who think he'd be an overqualified second guy, but not quite athletic enough to be. That's Luca. Yeah. but i think you could have said the same thing about hard and coming out of college too and i think that's i i'm way older than you and i've seen a lot of draft picks go badly the one thing that i think is just transferable decade to decade a decade is like competitiveness and just an insatiable desire to work on your game, which he has already. He's fucking competitive.

And he tries to add shit to his game. And I think by the time he's 25, you know, Harden, I think just people think he goes to strip clubs every night and doesn't do anything. Harden has taught himself all these things over the last five years that have vaulted him to this entirely different level.

Harden just doesn't sleep. That's why. Well, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he's learning at the strip joint. Harden just doesn't sleep. That's why. Well, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he's learning at the strip joint. But he's just added things. And the great players add stuff and they're super competitive and they just want to keep getting better and better.

And I think he's wired that way. And that's part of it with Luka. So like you mentioned, there's the questions about his athleticism, his ability to create. That has improved for him over time. As you would expect, he's just turned 19, right? And he worked out at P3 in Santa Barbara, I believe, last summer, which helped him improve

athletically. The problem is, we're watching him. This is game 90 for him in the last calendar year or so. That's a really important point, though. He's played 90 games. Jaron Jackson played 30. Exactly. 35.

Exactly. And he got through the whole thing. As it does for every NBA player, even LeBron James, all these high-level elite athletes at their peak. Even these guys get tired in game 70, game 80, game 90. Luka Doncic is a teenager. And that's why I think we've seen a little bit of a regression from him over the last couple of months.

Doesn't change the fact that he still won the title. He still is producing at a very, very high level. To me, that's why he's number one. And he's playing with dudes who are having smoke breaks at halftime. Passing Marlboro Reds around. Or Camel Blues. What do they smoke on Real Madrid?

Camel Blues? In the EuroLeague, it's a men's league. You're playing against grown men. Dudes are having beer after the game. Even if they are, though, they're at least fully physically developed and they're fighting to provide for their families. They're hairy, beer-drinking adults. That's who he's playing against. Luca.

I can't believe Atlanta would pass him. That would be the most exciting player they've drafted literally in 30 years. I'm not convinced they will. I'm still not convinced that it's all on screen. I think they would have sent... Oh, you're convinced that they might. No, I'm not convinced that all these teams are going to pass on him. I'm not convinced that Atlanta's going to pass on him for Bagley or Jackson.

I'm not. If he went to Sacramento, I would actually be fired up because that means he's on West Coast. I like watching these dudes on the West Coast because potentially we'd have LeBron and the Lakers, fun Clipper team. We have the Warriors. We have Phoenix with just all these lottery picks they have. And then we'd have Doncic in Sacramento.

It's kind of loaded for the 7.30 to 10 o'clock Pacific Coast time. Pretty good. Sorry, East Coast. You guys shouldn't live there, you dumbasses. You should live here. We get basketball. It comes on earlier. How much do you put into...

So when I interviewed De'Aaron Fox on the Ringer NBA show a couple weeks ago, I asked him about, like, you know, this was before the draft lottery and we talked about the top draft prospects and he didn't seem super excited about Luka Doncic. Part of it was... I wouldn't be if I was him.

Of course not. I mean, but I wonder if like... I don't have the ball now. If you're Sacramento's front office, I wonder how much you put into that. If you perceive De'Aaron Fox as your point guard of the future, if the way you want to build your team

is having De'Aaron as the primary creator, maybe that's why you might lean towards a forward, a big like Bagley who scores and compliments De'Aaron Fox. But I think that's thinking too much about fit more so than just getting the best player. Take the star. Guess what? Fox won't be

on the team in four years if you take Donchich. But I'm higher on him than you. I think he has a chance to be somewhat special too. High character kid. The only weakness is his outside shot but I think he's

one of those dudes who will stay in the gym that's a pretty big weakness though I know but it's not like it's broken it's not like a Michael Kidd go crest just how do you fix that thing

his elbow's going at the wrong angle good free throw shooter has pretty good touch and a hard worker clutch yeah I like

he had some even though he didn't have he had a pretty up and down rookie season he had some good like end of the game moments he had game winning shots go ahead shots I like that dude some even though he didn't have he had a pretty up and down rookie season he had some good like end of the game moments take game winning shots go ahead shots

I like that dude and game tying shots I don't know I really like De'Aaron super confident like if you see him like if you're in the room with him

he's it's like Oladipo like just kind of alpha doggy yeah high character kid too I would try to trade very funny

I liked him yeah I've heard good things about him I would try to trade for him if I was in the 6-9 range. I would value him more than...

If Orlando's like, let's take Trae Young, I would rather have Fox. To me, that's the type of situation where both teams say no. Sacramento values Fox probably more than the other team is willing to give. I feel like if you're Sacramento, you're like, no, we're keeping our guy. We know what we have with him more so than the uncertainty of the sixth pick well if they do like bagley and he does drop to six for some crazy reason sure if they take luca too yeah and then bagley's there at six jackson goes three porter's there at six perhaps because they do like michael porter yeah then maybe that could make some sense so then you have crazy memphis at four who have

gasol and conley coming back. Their owner gave just a whack job interview today about how they have a chance, their goal is to win over 50 games next year. Yeah, they want to win. Gasol and Conley are back. I think that picks in play. It is.

And I think they're a team that would consider trading down. Like if you're the Clippers and you want to trade up for Luka who falls to four or Bamba who they also like, Jerry West really likes Mo Bamba. and you want to trade up for luca who falls to four or bomba who they also like jerry west really likes mo bomba if you want to trade up for michael porter maybe you package 12 and 13 and tobias harris and you offer that they say no they ask for more give patrick beverly maybe memphis looks at that they're like huh suddenly we have 12 and 13 beverly mike conley marcus soul add this add that bring back tyreek evans suddenly you're Suddenly we have 12 and 13, Beverly, Mike Conley, Marcus Soule.

Add this, add that, bring back Tyreek Evans. Suddenly you're looking at definitely a mid-high 40s win team, I think. I don't think that's unrealistic. I would do that if I was Orlando. I would do six for 12 and 13. I wouldn't do four. I wouldn't do four either. Kyle, can you, after we finish taping this, dub in some serious music?

Because I have a very important question for KOC right now. I need like somber ER, like the person's about to maybe lose a kidney type of music. Memphis calls Boston. You know where I'm going with this. And they say, we'll trade you four for Jalen Brown. You can have Luka Doncic. What does Boston do?

I would do it. You would do it if you were Boston. I would do it, and I'll tell you why. I was thinking about this on the way in. If you're Boston, you're about to get Gordon Hayward back. Tatum's about to get better. You have this plethora of wings and guards who handle like Kyrie Irving. And Jalen Brown suddenly gets bumped down the totem pole to really maybe the fourth

or fifth, maybe even sixth on some occasions. His minutes are getting yanked around. And his role suddenly becomes diminished into becoming a spot-up shooter, a cutter, and a defender. And that's important to have. He's in a J. Crowder-Cavs situation where it just could be not happy at all. And so if you are able to flip that

and replenish it somewhere else on the roster, whether it's Luka or maybe you draft the big, but you can replenish that with a cheaper asset maybe in the back of the first round with that 27th pick, finding a 3 and D guy, and there's quite a handful of them in the back of the first round with that 27th pick finding a three and d guy and there's quite a handful of them in this year's draft so you get a lower cost a guy who doesn't have aspirations of being the one of the best players in basketball like jalen does and you're able to flip that asset at its peak value for the fourth pick where you can get

your choice maybe of luca as you mentioned or maybe it's mo bamba your center of the future i know if they do that i'm gonna fight everybody i'm gonna start with you and then i'm gonna fight the rest of the ringer jaron jackson what if you're getting more back what if it's more i just want to i just want to say i don't want to trade jalen brown and i do think he's special and the checkpoints that he hit in his first two years he's ahead of where kawaii leonard was and he's out of where Kawhi Leonard was and he's ahead of where Paul George was. Like just period, go any statistical evaluations. His first two versus those two age, experience, playoff experience that he got,

every sort of metric, he's ahead of those guys. So if I'm trading Jalen Brown, I'm trading somebody who right now is on pace to be better than Kawhi and Paul George. How confident are you? And I realize I'm asking this as the person who at the time of the draft was like arguing his shot was better than Kawhi and Paul George. How confident are you? And I realize I'm asking this as the person who at the time of the draft was like arguing his shot was better than people think it is.

But right now I'm arguing the opposite. Do you think his shot is as good as it actually looked? 39.5% from three, but still only 64% from the free throw line. Is he as good of a shooter right now as he looked last season? Or is he actually somewhere in the middle, like a 30%, 36% three-point shooter? No, I think he's a good shooter. And I think he played hurt from the middle like a 30 percent 36 no i think he's a good shooter and i think he played hurt from the beginning of the philly series on i think he was

between 65 and 80 percent and in the cleveland series it started to catch up with them near the end there because it was every other day i think game seven that was one of the reasons not making excuses i just think playoffs on, your body starts feeling like crap. I would not trade him unless Doncic was on the board. I would have a long meeting about it because here's the other factor. You trade Jalen to Memphis,

Gasol comes back, Conley comes back, they sign a free agent. All of a sudden that's a 40 win team and then the Celtics get their pick next year because it's top eight protected and becomes the 14th pick. I'm not sure I want to help them get better. On the other hand, if they take Donchic at four and he ignites them and,

you know, within two years, that's not even a lottery pick. And then you get nothing for that pick. I don't think Chris Wallace would ever trade with the Celtics would be my guess after he got fleeced by Jeff Green. Well, everybody has by Jeff Green. Well, everybody has by Jeff Green.

Well, that's true. I think if it goes to Dallas at five though, and I don't think if Don just gets out of the top four, that would be one of the strangest. Why do you think it's Luca for sure though? Like they have so many ball handlers on their team already. I really ride in this bomb.

But then I just think bigs are important and you need to have a young big. There's nobody on the roster. They have so many guards, so many wings, but they don't have a young big, cost-controlled, that have developing, that can also contribute in the short term behind Al Horford.

I would look at it this way. They're just looking at it holistically next 10 years. If they evaluate Doncic as as a super duper star, that's as somebody that could be one of the best 10 players in the league potentially. And they already have a guy on the roster, Tatum, who is going to be one of the best 10 players in the league if he does get

hurt. And you just go, go from there. And it's like, I don't know what else we're going to have, but we would have those two guys and short term, we can compete for a title with what we have anyway. But four years from now, these are our two guys. That's how you'd have to think about it. Now, do they feel that way about Jalen Brown? I don't know. They might. And then that

also raises the question about, let's say theoretically this happened and they added Luka Doncic. Then maybe Kyrie is somebody where it doesn't matter as much if he were to bounce and leave next summer for the Knicks. Yeah, I mean... Or maybe he becomes an asset after re-signing

in two, three, four years because you have Luka in the pipeline ready to take on that big jumbo point guard starting role. The Kyrie stuff... I'm ignoring all of it. I think he was out of the loop these last couple months. Are you afraid to look too closely at it? I'm a little afraid.

I'm a little afraid. I don't want to stare at it for too long. I would be afraid. I mean, New York has always had plans for Kyrie whenever he gets free agency. And Kyrie is from New York. Here's my solace with the New York thing. It is the most dysfunctional, terrible franchise

that we've had this century. And all of these NBA guys have Twitter and they have the internet and they have League Pass. And it just seems like a train wreck of a franchise. Durant didn't even take a meeting there. But Durant also proved anything can happen. He joined a 73-9 team that beat his team

in seven games in the Western Conference Finals. Literally anything can happen. But he went to a good franchise. It's a good franchise, yeah. You're signing with James Dolan. Yeah, but if you're Kyrie, New York's a great city too. Maybe you don't care as much about the owner.

James Dolan's your boss. He played for Dan Gilbert for years. Would you want to work for James Dolan? No, I wouldn't. But maybe if you're Kyrie, you're willing to work for anybody. It's just about where you are and what you're doing.

Kyrie seems like the type of guy where all that stuff, I believe he once said he doesn't let distractions into his life. are and what you're doing Kyrie seems like the type of guy where all that stuff he does I think I believe he once said he doesn't let distractions into his life right I believe that's a quote from Kyrie somewhere out there um so what do you think care at number eight what do you think is the best possible guy for Cleveland to get um I think the guys they're looking at are Wendell Carter who I'm saying like let's say LeBron stays Who helps them next year the most? I mean, Mikael Burgess is at 22 years old. He'll be a 22-year-old rookie.

He's ready to come in and play right away. So you're saying he's getting like the Rodney Hood slash Jeff Green minutes? Yeah, and the thing is, how much is a rookie going to help you though, right? So that's why if you're Cleveland, I'm not sure there is a guy that helps you from day one. That's why I think with that pick, Kobe Altman, Cleveland's general manager, needs to still be thinking post LeBron because you need to be thinking four or five years from now. Still, like you mentioned with Boston, right? LeBron might come could come back, but it might only be for a year or two. You need to be thinking about the three, four or five years from now.

And I think wendell carter is the guy that i'd be really looking at and they do like colin sexton too if they know lebron's leaving the pick they make at eight would be a pick you would make if you're retooling your team right and maybe they can get to a point where after j 1st, they sign and trade LeBron for Kuzma so they can make it so he can get a longer deal or whatever. But I still don't think like that's suddenly the weakest situation in the league. If he leaves,

they're over a hundred million dollars in contracts. Like what would they have been this season? Like a 25 win team without LeBron? Yeah. I still, I still feel like there's another gear for Kevin Love that I'd want to see. Maybe he's just a guy who should be putting up big stats on bad teams. What was Minnesota when he was averaging 25 and 12 and 13? Well, that's the thing. They were like 25 and whatever.

Yeah, exactly. What do you think is the best candidate to drop out of the top 10 and just they keep showing them in the stands and it's sad i don't think it's any of the top seven guys i think you know from ayton donchage jackson bagley bomba carter porter i think all those guys are going to go in the top 10 um it's it's trey young he's the interesting guy where to me it's like well maybe goes six. Maybe if he doesn't go to the Knicks at nine, he falls to 10, 11, 12 range. Well, for a reason that we've talked about for last year in this podcast,

the point guard glut. Everybody has a point guard. Everybody has a point guard. There's like three teams that don't. And with Trae Young, he is so undersized. So lean, so small. I'm not sure there's a lot of room for his frame to get stronger and we saw in the playoffs every small defensive point guard was getting picked on everyone from damian lillard cj mccollum even terry rosario who's a good defender was getting

attacked relentlessly by the cavaliers steph curry everybody's trying to attack steph it's obvious teams attack the weak link on a defense but it just so happens the small guy is often the team people are trying to to get switches on so they can post up and either draw double teams the rent to the litter and that's where trey young it's like well if he becomes an elite offensive player it doesn't matter who cares if he stinks defensively but if he doesn't i don't know i have questions about where I'd feel comfortable drafting him. I'm not letting you do your PR work for Bamba on this podcast.

You're not allowed. I'm not letting you do it. I'm not letting you do it. I'm not letting you get roped in by those YouTube videos. Can we talk about the importance of big men, though, in the league? I'm not letting you get roped in by those YouTube videos. I will say I was ready to fight you to the death on this. And then they posted that one clip when he was just draining threes from the

quarter. And I was like, what is this? I did like a one 80. I was like, Oh my God. I'll tell you, Bill,

I saw him work out and, you know, he was doing that. He wasn't doing that. He, the day I saw him, it was around like 50%, you know,

shooting the ball, which wasn't, it's not great. It was so easy. The thing is, is like, I think if your team evaluating bomba right now you're looking it's right now we're recording this on june 13th started changing his mechanics

about two months ago and the progress over those two months is pretty significant yeah i think in terms of his mechanics i agree his release looks terrific uh there's some things in his lower body the way he jumps forward that need to be fixed a little bit but he his progress as a shooter is really remarkable as is his footwork to me that's what makes him so tantalizing because it's like i think he has the baseline to be a long-term successful player without the jumper with his size rim running screening defensive ability rebounding i get it it's more it's more athletic Rudy Gobert who can shoot threes sure that's a good basketball

player the thing is is again like Rudy Gobert what makes it Rudy Gobert his mentality his mindset I mean he's a killer out there on the floor does Bamba have that maybe maybe not he's certainly articulate very he certainly

could talk about having it but I'm not sure if he has it yeah it's not like we weren't watching him just destroy people in Texas. He did have some good box scores, though. I looked it up. And that will be the question with Bamba, right? So over the course of a full season in the playoffs, when it's minute 35 for him on the court, is he giving it at that elite level? I don't know.

I picture you at those Darko workouts in 2003. Just like, I saw Darko today. He was incredible. He's a great athlete. He's a hybrid five. He's got everything you need. I hope that's not Mo Bamba. I'm old enough now to see the red flags

and there's red flags with this. What are the red flags? The workout warriors scare me. Forget the workouts though. Just look at the games. He did put up, he rebounded in the games, which I think is important. He had a lot of double figure rebound games.

It wasn't like he was MIA. What else are red flags for Mo Bamba though? I get, I- The red flag for me is, it doesn't seem like side to side. I just keep picturing him getting switched on smaller dudes and just being unable to stay in front of them.

I can picture that with literally any big man, though. I think Jackson, I think, might be able to guard guards from what I've seen, like eventually. But at an elite level. I'm not sure. I think with Bamba, he covers so much ground. Could he do what Al Horford does defensively, Jackson, six years from now?

I think he could. I think so, for sure. Which is about as good as you're going to hope for. And I think that'll be the question teams ask. So with Mo Bamba, both Jackson and Bamba are great shop lockers.

The question is, with today's league, so many teams switching, you're going to be bringing these guys out on the perimeter anyway where they're shop locking around the rim may not have as much value.

But that's not the case again. Every matchup and every team, there are teams that have a big man that's playing inside or they have a big man that you're not going to be switching where you're going to play traditional pick and roll defense,

drop in the big or hedging where that shot blocking still has value. So to me, it's like, yes, big men don't have the same level of importance as they did in the 90s and maybe the early 2000s. But in the the playoffs we saw they still have an immense important role in the game it's just golden state's not gonna last forever you're not gonna have to go against

draymond green especially not if they keep having moments like that parade yesterday what the fuck was that that was the weirdest thing doing warriors why make that awkward what were they thinking i don't understand that at all but' face after he said that was almost like, what was I thinking? Like, what would I say that for? Maybe he had a couple of drinks in there. I don't know. What's the funniest team for Bamba to go to

that would be the scariest for his future success? I say Sacramento too. It's always Sacramento by default, though, isn't it? That's such a red flag. He's in that number two bad luck spot. He's in Sacramento bad luck. They'd take him too high. It just says all the makings.

I mean, I hate... And Vlad is like, I was impressed by his three-pointers. I made him sign Russian for some reason. I hate piling on Sacramento, but it's the truth. It is. Until they get back in their winning ways, like in the early 2000s when it was terrific back then, back when Vlad was a player and not a general manager.

Until they get back to that, they are the answer by default. What if he goes to Dallas and he's in a Twin Towers situation with Pants DJ? Inside joke for people who follow dumb NBA stuff.

I think Rick Carlisle would like him though. Yeah, I think he would. I think Bamba going to Orlando would be really funny too, just for the Kevin Clark reactions. Oh yeah. Who's probably excited just to watch a fun magic player. And then it's like, here's the center project, Mo Bamba. He's seven foot four and weighs 40 pounds. It's funny you brought up Orlando. That's where I wonder where the question really is with big man. And I think big man unquestionably

are still important. To me, the question is like, big man. And I think big man unquestionably are still important to me. The question is like, how much cost are you willing to give towards certain types of big man? And we're about to find that out this coming summer with Clint Capella, depending on the offer sheet that he gets, Daryl Morey is going to have to make a decision. Am I willing to pay a rim running center, a rim protecting center,

$25 million when I already have. Can I tell you the answer? Is it now? The answer is yes. It's yes. I think if LeBron is out for them, they just run it back. They went 65 games and came very close to making the finals.

And if they made the finals, they would have won the title. And you could argue if Chris Paul doesn't get hurt, they win. I would run that back. Like I'm not going nuts this summer. It's like, can we get LeBron?

No. Okay. Let's run it back. Clint, how much you want? And they'll do some smart salary with them. First of all, he's not getting 25 million a year. Cause where's he getting that we get LeBron? No. Okay, let's run it back. Clint, how much you want? And they'll do some smart salary with him. First of all, he's not getting 25 million a year because where's he getting that from?

If Phoenix drafts the center. What do you think he ends up getting? Not 25. I would say like 17, 18. All it takes is one though. But who's the one? What if it's like in Dallas? They have a ton of cap space.

Indiana is interesting. Yeah. Maybe if you're in Indiana, you think about flipping Miles Turner bringing in Capella have Capella and Sabonis flip Turner

how about this somewhere let me throw this one at you free agency Capella Miles Turner for Kevin Love hmm how about

how about Miles Turner for CJ McCollum like Miles Turner I don't think he's I think CJ McCollum is higher than Value S Turner for Love Turner plus blank McCollum. I think CJ McCollum's higher than Value West. Turner for Love. Turner plus

blank. Whatever makes it work. And I'm not sure I love the McCollum or Oladipo backcourt, but... I don't like it either. I like the idea of Love in Indiana. I think he would find himself. I think those crazy Indiana people would love him. Oladipo McCollum would be interesting, though, too, though.

It's high scoring back court. The thing is he's a much better defensive player than Lillard is. So it could work. How many people in this draft have the potential to be the best player in the draft? Aiton? Doncic? Bamba? Potential. Not saying they'll

get there. I think seven. Seven? Seven guys. Actually no, not seven. Jackson? Right now, I have Luka and Aiton in their own tier, and after that... That's not the question. Okay. How many of them conceivably could be the best part in the draft?

Four. Bamba, Jackson? Yeah, Bamba, Jackson, Aiton, Dondritsch. After that... It's inconceivable. I agree with you. I think it's inconceivable. I agree with you. I think it's inconceivable. There's a slim chance it's a Bagley or a Porter.

No, it's not happening. But I wouldn't bet on it. So Friday, you're doing Ringer NBA show draft party. Draft class. Draft class. Draft party.

We always have parties. Draft class on Friday. Last one before the draft. It's been great all spring. Then Monday, you're going to come on here to do be part of the

giant ringer mock draft we're going to do and then all next week we're going to have Jonathan Charks he's coming doing videos we're going to do live stuff

on the draft whole bunch of stuff looking forward to it keep it going KFC you're doing great thanks Bill this is fun we'll be back after this

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Gift code BS. And since we're here, theringer.com today. Check it out. Robert May's big oral history on Gaslight Anthem's The 59 Sound. Yeah. Bruce Springsteen's in it. Check it out. It's on TheRinger.com right now.

All right, let's bring in Nick Kroll. All right, Nick Kroll is here. You've never been here. I have not. We ran into each other at David Chang's house. Yes. He was cooking for us. Indeed.

And we were all shooting the shit in his backyard. And I was like, I gotta get this guy on a podcast. Yeah. I've done no preparation for it. And I'm not prepared at all, but I'm not really worried. It worried i don't like the backyard yeah i think we'll be all right i mean we don't have chang to um uh self-obsessively talk about what's going on if everyone's after him or not and then do we like the food what's wrong with it yeah why didn't you have the rest of that but i i mean you know what was interesting came up there it was an interesting thing of like um competitiveness yeah because chang is like i need we were talking about

jordan and that and like killers you know what i mean and chang it was like i think chang is fueled by that and i found that very interesting to be like oh right that's how he's like you know and i mean like he needs it i think he was like a college or he's like a high school golfer or something like that it's part of his i think what motivates him he was he has this whole thing about chefs and athletes and some of the similarities it's pretty interesting and how they're friends but they're not and they have frenemies and then just flat out people you hate right yes uh it's it's a little bit similar. I was listening to your interview with Oakley. Yes. The highlight of my career, you mean.

I know. I'm still getting feedback a week later for it. Oh, it was. It's a dream podcast. I mean, you know it when it's happening. You're like, all right, I'll never top this. Well, because he was sort of openly saying his opinions about people and things. It's perfect.

He's fascinating because I grew up as a nick fan at that time like that was my team i grew up you know early 90s came of age like falling in love with that nick team and uh i went to school in white plains yeah and um and charles oakley lived right in the neighborhood and me and my friend andrew walked into the Rosedale Deli one day and Oak was in there drinking like a one liter Hawaiian punch. And he was just like, they don't make these things big enough. And we were just like these two, like 13 year old Jewish boys meeting Charles Oakley. And it was like, it was perfect.

And it was and listening to him on your podcast was like, it was everything you kind of would want. It was a cross between, and he wasn't drunk, but I'm just using this analogy. Your drunk uncle at Thanksgiving who you don't know what he's going to say yes. Yeah. Crossed with Charles Oakley. Yeah. Where's this going? Oh no.

Oh, it's another story. It was great. I loved it so much. Yeah. And him kind of like talking smack about Isaiah. Oh, we have people from 30 years ago. Carl Malone. Oh, it's another story. It was great. I loved it so much. Yeah, and him kind of like talking smack about Isaiah. Oh, we have people from 30 years ago. Carl Malone. I love it.

He called Bernard King brown eyes for some reason. It felt insulting. I didn't know why. He's like, yeah, we called him brown eyes. I'm like, okay, Charles. Fair enough, but it was fascinating because it was like he's still holding those grudges, but Jordan is exempt. Like he's his buddy but it was

interesting of like it's like oh if he had never played on a team with jordan would he would jordan have been exempt there was one other guy who ahmad seemed like he was exempt he was okay with ahmad oh interesting yeah um i was fascinated by that i mean he didn't have anything he was okay it seemed like he was okay with pippen yeah yeah and it seemed like he was okay with Ewing but then everybody else everyone else was kind of he loved Mason right Mason Anthony Mason but it was like that's like his like feels like would have been his protege of sorts

it's kind of amazing they were together I know I was thinking nobody died yeah I was I was thinking about that too I was like oh right they played together on that team and went out at night oh my god i can't imagine what those oh my god before cell phones yeah like before i mean you can't imagine we used to me and my friend andrew we would used to prank call wfan like that was our thing when we were like 13 years old and we would call up like um mike and the mad dog a little bit but uh oh god are you talking

about the late night guys yeah yeah there's steve summers and then russ salzburg was the wor channel line guy and then he had the show on the sweater and we would call him up and prank call him and be like yeah i think patrick ewing should be playing point because he can see over the top you know and they didn't know he never knew if we were messing with him until my friend was like you know i'd love to take a bubble bath with anthony mason he's a very attractive man that's when we got cut off but in my mind i'm always thinking about anthony mason in a bubble bath oh my god yeah i i uh my mom lived in connecticut for a while and so i was there and I went to high school there and was there you know during holidays and summers

things like that because I moved back to Massachusetts but that was during the time when you went out until like 2 in the morning and driving home it was the early days of the all night radio oh yeah and so you would hear those calls like that and you're like that person's either drunk or pranking

and there's no other share. It's a 15-year-old prank call person or somebody who's had 14 drinks. Yeah. And they're both are, for me, equally entertaining. And the key was to, as someone who was pranking, was to ride the line of being like, is this guy drunk? Or is he, we don't know. You keep him around.

We used to do it. It was, we kill so much time that way. Those guys, it was so funny how unformed how unfortunate like i think they put more thought into the shows now i'm not saying they're better or worse but you could at least feel like there's a rundown now it's like coming up we're going to talk about whether lebron's going to the rockets back then it was like uh let's go to nick from way planes we'll let nick from my place it was just completely caller centric oh my god and there were some great and you did know some of the callers there was a woman who would call doris from rockaway she had this weird cough on i mean she there were those callers that i fell in love with

and it's true there was no agenda there was no twitter there was no internet stories unfolded slowly and you know you just sort of like you rolled with it because that was your only way in for the day i'm old enough to remember when there was no w fan yeah when i would be listening i'd be at my mom's house and the draft is coming up and this guy dave sims yeah I know the name yeah black guy bald yeah yeah yeah um he's been around forever and he used to have this three-hour draft show and that was it on whatever the it wasn't even the fan it was like something else and it was like a night before and I was like I would listen I would get so excited I would listen the whole thing I tried to call in I finally got in once I some call. Do you think the Celtics will take Len by us?

If they're lucky. Yeah, maybe. But that was it. We were so starved for anything. And I'm just like, how did you even know to know about that show? I'm still fascinated. You know what I mean? Like, there was no internet.

You like stumble across it. Yeah. And then you're just like, I remember that was the way, again, me and my buddy Andrew found American Gladiators. Like, this is a different thing channels yeah it was like flipping through the channels and it was like connecticut and then all of a sudden it blows up and you think you're the one who discovered it because you're like we found this thing but i i had that same you were so starved for it at that point and there was an analysis like there is and i'm really jealous of people now because i was thinking

like ecw is like that and i didn't know what ecw was a lot of stuff happened flicking channels at 1 30 in the morning yeah in the late 80s early 90s and i was like what's this yeah and wow that guy just jumped from a scaffold this is cool yeah is this on every week no and now it's you find i mean now it's i guess it's people are discovering that through whatever, but like the web, you just, it's just, everything is so, I mean, you guys are doing, you do it yourselves. You present such a plethora of information. We're there like immediately after we're a season finale of billions and our podcast is ready.

It's crazy. Back in that 30 years ago, you watch billions. You have no idea if anyone else is even watching it. I don't, yeah. I don't know how we shared it or that like there were iconic tv shows that you'd be like oh of course there was that episode of the different strokes where he goes to the visit the bike shop or whatever it was like you're like how did we all watch i guess we caught in reruns but it's like no you had to be watching that episode like i was talking to friends about that the uh the cosby show

episode where rudy sings the the ray charles you know where they're like that big or the monopoly episode and it's like how do we all know that episode so well from watching it once or twice like did it just stick i don't know we had less entertainment options yes that is true i think i've told this story in the podcast before but when i had my column in college and it was starting to take off, I had a joke about, I didn't understand. Remember the three-part Brady Bunch episode, the Hawaii episode? Yeah. And Vincent Price kidnaps the kids. He tortures them. And then the Bradys rescued the kids. And then they feel bad for Vincent Price. They invited him to Luau.

It's very sweet. And it ends with like, he's at the Luau having a good time it's like hey our kidnappers here can somebody get another pita colada and so i i mentioned that in the column and all these people come to be like hey man i saw the vincent price thing but it was like we were having all these individual experiences with these tv shows and had no idea if anybody else even knew about them yeah i was like oh man i'm so glad you brought that up it was not a collective for years there was nothing collective about them. Yeah. It was like, oh man, I'm so glad you brought that up. It was not a collective. We've been talking about that for years. There was nothing collective about it. Like now where you're like,

hey, I mentioned this Vincent Price thing. Like people are going to listen to this and immediately now go on YouTube, watch that and have that experience right away where it's like, if you didn't catch it, I don't know if that changes like fandom now. Like if you don't. I think it totally, when did the leak come out?

Oh. Like 06, 07? Now it's 08, like 09. It was last decade. Yeah, end of last decade, beginning of this, like 09, 10 or something like that. But it caught the Twitter waves. Yes. Because I think Twitter was the game changer in a lot of ways for this stuff.

Yes. Where it's like, you have a funny bit in a show, people are tweeting about it, it's getting forward, it's getting read, and it just kind of goes. Yes. We caught either the beginning of that i think twitter was around but and you caught the streaming part where people could catch up on a whole season and that was the biggest like we were on we were kind of not buried but we were on fx barely season one and then it was on netflix and everyone between season one and two watched it on netflix and then found it through

that um and i remember friday night lights yeah was pre-streaming yeah and i made the choice not to watch it and missed it and then all these people in my life were like like angry at me yeah like it's fucking crazy that you don't watch friday night lights like i was like robbing school children or something and i ended up up getting Japanese DVDs on eBay and I watched the whole season and had Japanese subtitles at the bottom and banged out all of them in four days, but there's no streaming now. I just be like,

all right, I'll watch it on Netflix. I weirdly never watched Friday night lights either. I still haven't. And I literally watched the pilot. What the fuck is wrong with you? Well, I've been too busy kidnapping these kids.

But then they invited me to the luau and uh it was great but i had that i literally watched the pilot for that like two months ago to friday night it's it's a little it's tiny bit dated but still watchable we've had some people on the ringers megan schuster watched it recently uh who i think is like 24 25 yeah. Yeah. She just never seen it. Yeah. And was in like she was like, oh, my God, Michael B. Jordan showed up like having those kind of. Yeah. I was like, I'm a little jealous.

Yeah. Well, I just finished Game of Thrones. I was like six. I started watching Game of Thrones like six years late and like in the last year, watched all of it and now caught up. They're saying it's the best incest show ever. That's the wrap. Yeah. that is that is the going i i can't spoil anything uh but yes it is it is weird i had that moment i don't know what i don't know how it works are you allowed to talk about like if it's aired are we allowed to talk about anyone who hasn't watched game of thrones

at this point they could go to hell yeah i had that in my writer's room where i was like you guys can't and they're like shut the fuck up they could go to hell. Yeah, I had that in my writer's room where I was like, you guys can't, and they were like, shut the fuck up. And I was like, all right, fair enough. But it was like, I had this moment where I was like, oh, like, you know, Khaleesi and Jon Snow, okay. And then I was like, wait, are they brother and sister? Like, you have that moment where you're like, what's the deal? I watch the show, but I don't remember anybody's names.

Like, are they brother? Oh, they're cousins? That's fine. That's also my experience with Thrones. I think there's a couple different types of thrones fans and i'm in the camp of you know oh the queen yeah yeah oh the short guy yes you know just going on down the line yeah i didn't read the books did you read the books no no no i'm behind i'm behind on a lot of like harry potter i i read the first book i enjoyed it and then forgot about it watched the first movie or two and then forgot about it i just watched the

end of um of um saving private ryan and realized i've never watched it i have like 20 year anniversary coming up i know i have like major holes major holes sounds like that sounds like maybe some drugs in the past there might have been some marijuana yeah there may have been the past well that was the thing is like my formative years you watched all these movies you still remember that is entirely possible you saw saving private five times no recollection i know i've seen shaving ryan's privates a number of times that that did burn a hole in my uh my memories but that is possible but i do think there are kids who end up smoking a lot of like some people smoke a lot of pot high school college and all they do is watch tv and they remember it all or they're like i love tv movies until like sophomore junior year of high

school and then i started kind of like screwing around and then have a huge hole from like 16 to like 22 of being like oh i was like not watching tv i watched like you know simpsons and seinfeld reruns i have a hole too when i from when i was in college but retroactively catching up on but i'm curious there's some shows i missed though like what anything that you're like i mean i'm just trying to think of, I feel like a Martin. I just missed. Oh, see, I caught Martin.

Cause that was like in my, I'm home. And you know, like, I don't know if I was watching reruns or watching it live, but I definitely caught weirdly a bunch of Martin. I missed, I missed in living color when it was happening.

Cause I was like, and I was out in college. Just see, that's like, I have that with a period of time for SNL for years where I just like, like it was not, it was like, and I was out in college. Just see, that's like, I have that with a period of time for SNL for years where I just like, like it was not, it was like, it's Saturday night.

I'm not home on Saturday night watching the show. And it was pre like, Oh, I'll watch the best sketches on Hulu the next day. I was, yeah, I was VHS in those. I had the VHS,

the, the, the freaking tapes, all these tapes we'd bring. Do you still have any of those or did you get rid of them? I have them somewhere in the attic. I have a lot of VHS tapes that seem like a great idea. It's weird when you go- DVDs seem like a great idea until about five years ago.

Now they seem like a terrible idea. Do you remember when Netflix switched over to streaming and everyone was like, they've fucked up so royally. How stupid could they be to go streaming and get away from DVDs? I wrote this piece when the NBA was headed for a lockout. So October 2011. And I mentioned this piece in the last podcast I did that we wrote for Grantland about like, oh, let's create a new league.

We'll create new teams. We'll do a redraft of the players. I'd forgotten. Somebody emailed me after that piece i have a joke in there about naming one of the teams after netflix and then there's a joke about but after they go bankrupt we'll have to change the name it was like the net netflix quickster the new york netflix quickster right but after they go bankrupt this is seven years ago now it's like their stocks at 400 now almost yeah and they i'm an this is seven years ago. Now it's like their stock's at 400 now almost.

I'm an idiot is the lesson. The bottom line is, and that's why we all brought you here today, was for your podcast. Yeah, it's such a weird thing. You don't know, but it's weird. If you go back and watch VHS, for me, the most interesting thing about going back and watching VHS

is watching old commercials. Oh, yeah. And being like like whoa like yeah burger king commercials are weird or you know like not so slight racism in some of the old commercials oh yeah yeah that's what they just weren't afraid to be racist no they didn't know yeah they and some sexual stuff like with the ones from the 70s the smoking ones were like very phallic yeah the guys you could see the guy's groin the girl's smoking a cigarette and it's kind of lined up with the guy's groin shit like that i think they made a law that you couldn't do that anymore you couldn't use a cigarette as a phallus anymore yeah as a facsimile penis for going to somebody's mouth yeah that's a

shame yeah what a combination trump's gonna get trump's coming back he's gonna bring it back he's gonna bring back misogyny and smoking together trump's like what we can't do that anymore this is un-american let's bring it back yeah those old commercials are great a lot of those are on youtubes yes i will go back and watch old i weirdly i don't know why i do like i also still like flipping through the channels. I will flip through the channels. Like my friends have cut their cord or like, you know, are only, you know, Netflix or they've got the ESPN app or HBO, they only have the app, whatever it is.

I still am like, I kind of like flipping through channels. I still like watching commercials. I don't even kind of like it. I have DirecTV and cable. Yeah. Really? I have both. Yeah.

I like, because I have Direc TV for the football, but I like cable more because it's faster and you can flip channels faster. Really? I still like looking at the guide and being like, ah, Devil Wears Prada's on. Yes. Weirdly, I'll give it a whirl for 10 minutes. Oh yeah. Or I'm like, oh, tombstones on TNT. I'm in. Like, I'm like, I'll watch commercials. See Kurtoss with those pearly blues one of my favorite things is the 10 minutes before inside the nba comes on on tnt when tnt is showing you their bones or csi new orleans but it's just the end there's no context at all it's just like somebody's lugging a corpse out of their basement and scott back was there

just watching them yeah and then with like some little slightly humorous line with like his uh yeah slightly droll yeah it's very droll show yeah it's a it is a i remember i miss um is it still is uh is inside stuff it is still on right the it's a new version with grand hill and Kristen Liddell. Okay, yes. I miss the old one with Ahmaud and whoever his white female co-host was. Willow Bay at some point, yeah. Willow Bay met with somebody else, and Ahmaud always said, he's Ahmaud. He's going to have sexual tension.

It's going to happen. If he's here right now, we'd all have sexual tension. He's a very sexual guy. I did sprinkler installation in high school, and we worked on Ahmaud Rashad's house. Really? Yeah. Yeah. It was all through Connecticut.

He and Felicia Rashad lived in... They were married. They are married? They were, and their daughter is now on Billions. Really? Yeah. She's got a key role on Billions. No way.

She was involved in a spoiler alert plot in the last episode that I'm not going to spoil because that just happened. Okay. We won't talk about it. But Game of Thrones, I'll spoil it. All day long we won't talk about it. But Game of Thrones I'll spoil to the cast. All day long. Yeah. Ahmad Rashad's on Game of Thrones now.

Yeah, he is. This is in the last season. He's so good. And then Gumbel, is it Brian Gumbel or Greg Gumbel? Who has the show? Brian Gumbel still has the show on HBO. That's Brian.

Yes. And is Greg still doing cbs football greg is doing college hoops and football for cbs and is way older than you think he is both of yeah they're both i'm like how old do you think greg gumbel is this is one of my favorite games to play oh i actually i tipped you off because i know i. Well, my gut is that I would say like 65. Okay. But I don't know. Like, how old is Marv Albert?

Tommy, how old do you think Greg Gumbel is? Kyle? 62. Greg Gumbel is 72 years old. What? Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm telling you, go to parties and just drop that on people. How old is UB Brown?

He's 72 years... Well well UB Brown is like 88 is he still Marv's like 77 I mean I love Marv but he got Victor Oladipo and Darren Collison confused for a solid game in the playoffs it just seemed like a problem

it was two of the best pacers Oladipo Collison I love Marv though Marv should stay as long as he wants well because he also very smartly went to pay early so like there's no he's fine like there was no like what's happening to marv albert oh that's true he he went so early that we never even you never know you never knew or he did a comb over early what and but he he because he was also a nix guy he was the new york guy early like when i was of a like coming that was my that was him marv was incredible yes and he's i still think he's my favorite he is good i do i mean i i've i'm

fascinated by those guys they do seem ageless costas costas hair dye is like somewhat of an issue i love him i really do but it's anyway i don't know what you're allowed to say i'm allowed to say so you're allowed to say whatever you want yeah once my hair started going white i'm like i'm not doing the dr pepper like whatever yeah this is the color of my hair it's we're all i'm slowly letting my hair go gray it's gonna happen uh and then i'll but i dye my pubes well you have you have actor roles though where you probably have to seem younger in certain roles and stuff i guess so i don't know i'm figuring that out whether if you're rapist number three in the death wish remake yes maybe they're looking for a younger they want a

youthful look to that well i'm I'm now like, you know, I'm shooting for number two. You know what I mean? Number one. Who's got some more years behind him experience. I had Jeff Goldblum on. We were going through his movies and I brought up Death Wish.

His first role in a movie was, he was one of the three thug rapists in Death Wish with Charles Bronson. And he took the, Jeff Goldblum, by the way, great podcast. He's fantastic. He'll talk about everything. Oh, yeah.

You look wonderful. But he took the question like, seriously. He's like, here's what I learned on the Death Wish set. This is rapist number two. And really went for it. I was like, okay, here we are. I guess the grounds have been set. Tommy, we turned on that air conditioner in there rapist number two and uh and really went for it i was like okay here we i guess that those grounds have been set but he yeah i mean we turn on that air conditioner in there

he if it's not on turn it on higher if it's getting hot in here i apologize i'm i really don't sweat okay good it's a weird element of my existence he goldblum is someone who will take everything incredibly seriously and also he somehow manages to do both simultaneously and glibly yes yeah he played my father on the league and was like so but and would get into it and then pop out and he's so funny but he's just the weirdest he's one of the most interesting guys he plays this game did he play celebrity with you at all or this thing where he sort of will go like he doesn't like to converse when when you're not in the scene he doesn't want to have a conversation how's your life how are you doing he wants to do something else so he'll be like uh let's play the movie game uh he'll go

jeff goldblum uh jurassic park okay uh uh lord dern okay lord dern was in lord dern was in um uh you know uh twin peaks okay comical oakland okay portlandia oh so it's just fred armisen yeah and then i'll go Fred Armisen, Saturday Night Live, and then it'll go like something, something, and then it'll go like Chris Pratt, Jurassic Park, Jeff Goldblum. He'll bring it back around to himself. Then they'll be like, and action. And then you'll be back in like a scene in the league. You're like, wait, what just fucking happened?

But then he's so good. And he has aged both physically and artistically. Tall, handsome man. Yeah. He's, I think he takes very good care of himself. Does a lot of like yoga, eats well, is married to a contortionist. Yeah. Gymnast.

Yes. Yeah. She, she was on Kroll show as a contortionist. She's amazing. She's so cool. But but he's like he's a dude who like now is how old is he six mid-60s yeah that's like a three-year-old daughter yeah three-year-old son it's amazing let's figure it out let's take a quick break to talk about hotel tonight if you're like me and you're not so great at planning ahead I've got some good news

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All right, back to Nick Kroll. Can we talk about all the things you're up to? Sure. Before it gets so hot in here that one of us passes out. You got it. Just give me the rankings of what you're working on right now. The animated show's coming. Big Mouth season two is coming this fall.

We have not announced the official date, but the Big Mouth season two is coming this fall. We have not announced the official date, but the Big Mouth season two is this fall. We should mention that's a show that I hate you for because you put it on Netflix. Yeah. And my son, it's actually too over the top for my son. But how old is your son? My son's 10 going on like 30.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's one of those things where i know he's watching it but he'll never tell me so i'm sure he's seen every episode if he was here right now he'd be i know he watches the bill burr show too okay it's like what am i not supposed to watch all right i'll wait till you guys leave the room and i'll watch it yeah it's in that camp okay i would have done the same thing though yes i me too i was it's one of those shows that i would have snuck a watch when i like somehow uh i thought you were gonna say he's me too i was it's one of those shows that i would have snuck a watch when i like

somehow uh i thought you were gonna say he's like 15 i was like oh come on let him watch it 10 i get it's dirty it's super fucking dirty but he loves dirty though he loves oh man i mean it's it's way like he loves south park and it's way dirtier than south it has moments of being dirtier in south park but it's also like I will say the coolest part is like it's dirty but there's also like real kind of lessons is the wrong word but it gives kids and parents the ability to maybe have a platform to talk about this stuff but I would say more like when your son is in like three years and like locked in his room because he's fucking yanking that crank like you're gonna be like all right we gotta figure out a way to talk about this maybe the show provides some sort of vehicle

to have those conversations uh but it's filthy but it's i'm very uh they're saying it's the best white plains jerk-off show ever created right right now yes three yeah top three top three i remember malcolm jamal warner had one in the late 90s that didn't catch on it didn't work is as well malcolm in the middle they said there was not enough jerking off no it wasn't that was the note from that that was the major note uh from the network it is so dirty but it's it's i mean we have a the fun new carrot we have a couple new guys characters in season two um if you haven't seen the show basically it's about two 13 year old kids going through puberty and then it's really

about a bunch of kids so it's like kids masturbating getting their periods oh my god all of the all of the kids or kids have your parents worst nightmare i know they but they actually like they like it i think i don't know but it's's like every kid has a hormone monster. I like that. Which is really what happens. It feels like that when you're growing up. So we had a kid who was like, when Andrew, we were talking about the show, my buddy Andrew, I mentioned a few times, Andrew Goldberg, we came up with the show with our partners, Mark and Jen,

and they were sort of like, Andrew should have like a hormone monster. And I was like, oh, hormone monster. Like, he's just like, touch yourself, Andrew. And that became, and we're like, okay, got it. So everyone has hormone monsters. Season two, the big new character

is the shame wizard. And so it's like, I got him. So, and we got David Thewlis to be the shame wizard. If you watch Fargo season three he's the villain in that and he's in the harry potter movies the bad guy in wonder woman wasn't he in either island of dr moreau or the beach yes he's in island of dr moreau i don't know but it's

possible that he's in both of my favorite bad 90s movies whoa and he might be in the beach he might be like tilda swinton's like boyfriend in the beach or something like that he's he's something he's a badass so it's like anyway so it's it's that's anyway so that's coming out this fall the thing that i'm probably the thing for here that might be interesting is uncle drew the basketball movie i'm in you worked with kairi i worked with my dear friend kairi where did it was where does he rank against denzel and some of the other great actors you know what he's a good actor yeah like i was like god damn it this guy can and he's wearing they're all wearing

tons of prosthetics yeah and it's you know i was on that show cavemen you know what i mean like i was one of the cavemen so like i know what it's like to wear a shit ton of prosthetics and i was truly impressed by kairi as an actor he's one he's funny two he was a good actor when you see the movie like it's a the movies there has to be some emotional thing for to carry that for two hours and he's got it man it's like he's really i'm sure do you have you gotten to know him this year or in years past like have you there's a there's a chance he's appearing on this podcast relatively soon yes he's and i really i mean i liked him i was impressed uh he was ready he was prepared and all those guys actually like all those players like these aren't fuck-offs like

they can't like these guys all they do is show up to practice do their work and so when they come to and the same thing for the most part on the league too is like these guys come ready to go this is the lebron generation yes we had the cocaine generation yes no that is we had the uh hip-hop generation and then eventually we eased into the LeBron handle your business. Yes. Try to become a brand. Show up on time. Yeah.

Get your shit done. Have five things going on generation. Absolutely. And I and I felt like that with Kyrie. But then we had everybody else that it's, you know, it's Reggie Miller, Shaq, Chris Weber, Lisa Leslie, Nate Robinson. And, you know, when they they told me about the movie i was like oh that's i like those uncle drew videos like that were on you know

youtube and then i was like i want to i mean i thought that i was like i don't care if this movie's good or bad i actually think the movie's very funny and good but i was like i just want to go spend a month with those guys on the court fucking around like that's you know for me as a kid who grew up right watching those guys it's like the idea that i could be and i end up playing in the game so i deed up kairi or i tried to have you did you used to play i mean we're talking like like jewish day school right basketball i was decent yeah for jewish day school basketball so it was not i was to give you some context uh i wasn't getting i wasn't getting any offers to play college ball uh but uh i you know i i loved

playing growing up but i was like i was like the opportunity to play how many people get the opportunity to play defense against kairi irving but it's against the guy who's got like well nobody can guard him anyway so it doesn't matter your jewish day school background exactly versus being damien lillard yeah exactly so i'm in the i'm in the trailer i don't know if it's going to be in the movie but in the trailer when you see like here's uncle drew's handle like that's me playing defense against him and i did not fall down he did not break my ankle like none of that i was like i'll take that as a huge win and it was so fun and then i'm on the bench as the coach and i'm the i'm the i'm i'm the bad guy i'm the the bad guy coach oh the evil guy

i'm the bad guy i'm the white devil in this movie you're like tupac and above the rim yeah i'm like i never saw blue chip but i'm trying to think of whatever nick nolte is i'm probably not him right but another shack another fine shack but i got to hang out with shack i'm i i mean i had i couldn't have had more fun like i had one night where i got to chill with shackq. Shaq's a fun guy by all accounts. He is so, like, I guess if you're like seven, however tall he is for your whole life, you either retreat into yourself or you make everyone in the room comfortable.

And he made, I think he made a choice to just be, make everyone in a room feel comfortable around him. Kimmel's, you know, Kimmel loves Shaq. Yeah. His, like, I think his favorite celebrity story ever was Shaq was on Ellen at some point in the last 10 years and offered his cousin

$100,000 to come on the stage and take a shit and the cousin or the nephew was seriously considering it and it was like should I do it like it was like what is happening? That's the best though.

Cause Shaq, that's what Shaq's like every day. He's a real rascal. Yeah. He is a real, he tried to bring back roasts. Yes. I love the Shaq roast.

They did Emmett Smith. They did Shaq. I thought those were great. That's the one where if you go back and watch that Jamie Foxx, where he ruins a dude, he ruins a dude. Like where you're like, Ooh,

this is roasts are tough but this is rough but guys shouldn't come at him no you shouldn't come don't come at him especially when other guys have mics like jamie's not even up there he's just got a mic in the background doing the inner voice of that guy and it's brutal those two roasts are on youtube and that first of all that's how i met jimmy because he was on the first one one and I wrote about it on page two at ESPN. And he sent me an email. I was like, Hey man,

I really appreciate what you said. And we started talking, but the set, the one of them was the one, I think it was Emmett Smith. Jeff Ross came on and it was like the moment he became the roast master. Oh, that's really interesting.

I have not going to go back on watching, watch that on YouTube. Cause it was like an all black audience. And he just came in and was like, just, he was just out of control. Yeah. All that stuff's on YouTube. But Jamie Foxx, that's brutal. Killed that poor guy. Killed him. But Shaq, I really loved. And he's even a guy who I was like, I sat down with him one night we were in between setups and I just sort of interviewed him for like an hour just being like,

I don't know when I'm going to get a chance chance he's sitting on an apple box still taller than me yeah and he it was just interesting to hear him be like just like again works constantly working constantly he's like you never know what's gonna happen i'm gonna be nice to people because you know he's like i was nice to this kid who i played basketball in my neighborhood i would just be nice to him and then his father came up to me one day and was like i had my son had a dream that you played a genie and that's where like kazam yeah i would love to see kazam again and see how it held up i guess it didn't yeah i don't know i can't uncle drew come out uncle drew comes out june 29th um and it's like nate robinson's funny he's a rascal nate robinson's a rascal uh and reggie miller for me i grew up again early 90s new york i was at the at that game that's by like you were rivals with them

yes yeah and i was at that game but now i'm on the bench and I'm the bad guy. And so I'm just talking shit. And Reggie is shooting threes like we're shooting segments in the game. And Reggie's got to be – he's supposed to be missing threes and then he's supposed to be hitting threes. And he's missing threes. And I'm just fucking yapping away at Reggie Miller on the bench talking shit. And I was like, this for me, this,

there could be no more fun in my career that I can be on the bench razzing Reggie Miller for missing threes. And then he was lovely. And then he started hitting threes and it was not as fun. I did a TV for you with magic. Yeah.

And it was just Celtics Lakers from the get-go. And I would always use we, and it was like Celtics-Lakers from the get-go. And I would always use we, and it was like I was on the team. And the first month or so, he'd be like, man, you weren't on the team. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

By March, it was like I was on the team and I was like the ninth man on the 86 Celtics. Well, remember, we came back and he just accepted me as a rival from back then. You were just like Danny Ainge's stand-in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You might've thought I was Jerry Sechding tell me how you got hooked up with Mulaney is there a back story? we went to college

together what college? we went to Georgetown oh you motherfucker I got rejected by Georgetown I only got it because my dad went there is that why? yeah yeah yeah I really wanted to go there it was like the height of the Alonzo morning to come to Mutombo I was like the height of the Alonzo morning.

Oh, man. To Kemba Mutombo. I was like so ready to jump into it. Yeah, that's when my brother was there. And my mom came and visited one time. And my brother and Alonzo, they were all in this one rabbi's. All the basketball players were in a Jewish studies class because the rabbi was notoriously an easy grader. And my mom came to visit.

And my brother fell asleep in the class and Alonzo's asking questions the entire class. And my mom was like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. But that was the Twin Towers. That was the, I mean, that was- Is Who Wants to Sex Mutombo a true story?

That's, I've heard that. I don't know. I've heard that story. It seems like it came after, I think it's made up. But I've heard, I've heard, definitely heard lure of it. And I would,

by the way, the dude speaks seven languages. If you're going to, now that I've had Oakley, Mutombo is probably my dream podcast. And I'm going to have to ask him. He's real like players association or he's like, he's super involved.

He's a thoughtful dude. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think he also comes here. I mean, the lure was also like, he came here to be pre-med and then decided to play basketball. It's like, I don't know about that. That was when I stopped playing basketball. When lure was also like he came here to be pre-med and then decided to play basketball it's like i don't know about that that was when i stopped playing basketball when i was in like where i realized that there was a limit to it i went to john thompson basketball camp

when i was like 14 and i was like i'm pretty good and then i got down there and it was like all kids from like silver springs like all like you know dc metro kids. You didn't see a lot of kids from the Jewish day school? No, there were not. No, there were not. And I was like, oh, oh, oh, maybe I'll be in a movie one day where I get to play basketball. Like that'll be the end of it. The good news is the Jewish day school will be a great season three for the animated series. Oh my God.

It's true. The whole jerk off scandal in the Jewish day school. Oh my God, everybody. We do have Jewish penises on the show. We've got a a lot of we got some stuff in there that's pretty jewy jew fishman we have a character named jew fishman um but me and melanie met at georgetown i was in i was the director of the improv group he was a freshman i cast him in the troop and like within a month i was like oh this dude yeah like i was i was the senior like i was supposed to be the hot stuff yeah and within a month i was like oh this dude is like the real deal and but even like i had been i have a bunch of my friends even before

melania got there like mike berbiglia cast me in the improv group at georgetown like we have a weird there was like a weird group of us there that were all kind of doing it uh and so it was great but and but also georgetown wasn't like a comedy school so we got to do everything we hosted acapella fest like we just right it got us a lot of stage time um but john and i met freshman year his freshman year and just stayed buddies then I moved to New York and he would like come up and stay with me and we'd go to like open mics and just when did you start doing the two guys doing comedy together thing that has had very mixed results over the years yes we we well no you've done it in a variety of things like you've hosted award shows

yes yes we we started I mean we were always buddies and then we did years ago in New York, uh, over 10 years ago, we started hosting like a weekly standup show as, as George and Gil from Oh, hello. And it was just fun. It was like, it was like, I think we'd watched a lot of Jiminy Glick. We had watched a ton of Martin short. And it was like that thing of like, Oh, it'd be fun to be the characters interviewing these other people who are like, I don't know what's about to come out of your mouth. I'm scared. And and then we we kept doing them. And then I started doing Kroll show.

We started doing Oh, Hello on Kroll show. And then that finished. And then we started doing that. We got the Broadway show together. And then they offered. I think they came to me to do the Spirit Awards. And I was like, they're like, you could do it with someone. You could do it on your own.

And I was like, I think this would be more fun to do with someone. John and I were doing Oh, Hello. He was the funniest person I'd ever met. It just felt like an obvious thing to be like, hey, do you want to go do this thing? I thought you guys were good. I think that's a hard job, especially you're standing next to each other and you've already heard all the jokes, but you have to react like you never heard them before.

But I think it, I find it to be much, those award shows to be with someone on stage to me is so much more relaxing and fun because you have someone else to play with. If a joke doesn't go well, you've got someone else up there with you. Like I'm like Jimmy hosting the Oscars last few years when we had hosted the Spirit Awards.

They're very, very different things. I was not envious of him and I think he did a great job, but I was not envious of him for a second. Your room's a little friendlier. It's friendlier. You know, it's everyone's of a specific world and space you're not playing though you had the Weinstein stuff this year yeah and people were expecting something

from you whereas I think with Jimmy he you know because that's like as PG of an audience as you get you get you got to tiptoe it but you can't hit it hard but you people wanted you to hit it we we felt like we had an opportunity to say some stuff that other people couldn't. I think like Seth doing the Globes and Jimmy doing the Oscars. Seth was the test pilot. Yes. Seth got shot in the space. Yes.

Yes. Yes. I think that's a John joke who wrote that for Seth of like the monkey that gets shot into space first. Yeah, he literally was. Yeah. That was not an enviable hosting spot and he threaded that needle well

but it's just tough if you're either of those dudes on those shows to play to that broad of an audience and be like how can I be funny and also not inflame everybody or avoid everything entirely and because of the size

of the stage that we were at doing the spirits we had a little more we had a i think we i don't know i i don't know if we felt like this is expected of us or if we were just like fuck it let's just we have the opportunity to go i think so i think like we have the opportunity to go say some shit and take some shots that we wouldn't if we were doing a bigger stage like Jimmy. I watched yours carefully. I watched Seth's carefully too because I was worried for Jimmy because I felt like the audience that he had for that Oscars with all the landmines in the room. And there were a couple lessons.

Like it did seem like, you know, just going hard with a name. Like people would clench up a little bit if there was a name so they're like end arounds where you could yes make the name the punchline or sneak it around or we found that as we figured out like even the order with which we were doing jokes we were running it that week and we were ending we're like oh we have this a run about the apologies like how guys failed at their apologies and we did it in the middle of the week and it was killing in the middle of the in the middle of the set yeah so we're like all right this is our big closer this is the biggest last let's put it at the end of the set and we put it at the end of

the set and it stopped working as well and we felt just after the set like icky and it was like we got to put this somewhere in the middle because people don't want to finish on this we need to find like a palette cleanse or something because people survey yes because people didn't want that in the middle of the show people didn't want you they didn't want to the old end of the day what we were thinking and realizing is like we're still ultimately hosting a show yeah and this is a big night for a lot of people and people want to have fun and celebrate people don't want this entire show to be like what a fucking gross year what a gross culture we are in the middle or whatever it is people want to be like let's have fun tonight

you know so you like all of the machinations of where you place things was there were a lot of kind of interesting lessons to be learned we have to go but where are we going but so funny but you got to come back i saved some stuff i would love i want you to come on for a rewatchables podcast we do we break down these movies you're kind of built to join us for one of them i would love to we we'd go backwards we've had we will do anything ranging from social network to great we did that one cast away is going to happen this summer yeah but a lot of like i'm wondering if it should be one that i have i have not seen that it won't be it'll be a watchable for me or should it be a rewatchable first watchable like i don't know if i've ever seen cast away like i don't know if i've ever seen cast away podcast first watchable sponsor i love everything oh operation finale okay i'm in this movie a nazi hunting movie yes

it's uh oscar isaac and uh sir ben kingsley is uh adolf eichmann and we're like nazi uh we're uh mossad agents uh when it's the true story of capturing adolf eichmann in argentina so it's like a serious it's like a serious like oh like argo but uh and that's that comes out september 14th that that sounds good yeah it's fun oscar's super cool and funny and and amazing and it's Sir Ben Kingsley in classic Sir Ben mode. It's pretty crazy. What's your favorite Sir Ben Kingsley? I have a random one.

What is yours? Searching for Bobby Fischer. I love that movie. Oh, shit. It's really good. That movie still holds up. It's like 25 years old. That's a good movie.

That might be a watchable for me, too. That might be a watchable for me. That might be a watchable. Maybe that's episode two of the watchables. You know what? He's actually great in like the movie's not great to me, but like Iron Man three where he's playing as, Oh,

it's sexy beast for me. He's sexy beast in that movie. He did play Gandhi. Yeah. He did win an Oscar. Yeah. Come on. Anyone can play Gandhi. I mean, Jesus. He didn't. He wasn't played Gandhi. fine. Come on. Anyone can play Gandhi. I mean, Jesus.

Who didn't? Who hasn't played Gandhi? Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me, man. All right. Thanks to Proper Cloth, the leader in men's custom shirts. Create your custom shirt size

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courtside at the NBA finals, the show we did about the NBA finals and everything that happens there. So that's coming up. All you have to do is just go on your cable guy, just record it, and it'll be on your DVR. It's an hour. It's an hour of your life.

It's nothing. Back on Friday with another BS podcast. Until then. On the wayside On the Bruce and Neverland I don't have To ever forget