The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draftapalooza Part 1: Kyrie Drama, Fake KD Trades, and Last-Minute Pre-Draft Thoughts With Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Chris Ryan to discuss news that Kevin Durant is considering his options when it comes to his future with the Nets, what the market for Kyrie would be like, the most fun trade destinations for KD, and why Bill has once again changed his mind about who the Magic should take with the no. 1 pick. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Chris Ryan Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, it's one of my favorite days of the year. It's the NBA draft. I love it so much. I love it so much that we are going to do a four-part Draftapalooza extravaganza. This is part one, and it's all next. I can't wait. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite.

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So there you go. Coming up on this podcast, it is part one of our four-part real-time NBA Draft at Palooza. Me, Ryan Murcillo, Kevin O'Connor. We are taping this piece. It is about an hour before the draft, and we're just going to go.

All of our thoughts heading into the draft, and you can hear it in real time. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. It is Drafted Palooza. We're taping this piece. It is 315 Pacific Time. Kevin O'Connor and Ryan Rousseau are going to be here the whole time. We're going to do four parts.

CR, the man, the myth, the legend, Chris Ryan joining us. We figured we would do a part one before the draft in real time as this stuff kind of unfolds. We always figure there's going to be one story that pops up. Of course it happened. It was the Brooklyn story that we knew was lingering over all of this. And then in a hilarious, comical way, all of a sudden, Kyrie Irving has a sign and trade list. Woj is reporting Kevin Durant's not happy about it. And it looks like Brooklyn is on the precipice. Rossella, what was your reaction as you watched this unfold about two hours ago? Remember when guys used to ask out

with a year left or into their second year and now this is just, hey, I'll take the full max and then I'll figure it out later. You know,

the Kyrie thing we've known all along, it's one of the worst possible guys you can hit your wagon to, which is pretty ironic for Durant because they ended up

also becoming teammates with another all-first NBA team, worst wagon to hitch to. And then they traded that guy for another guy that was first team and he was eligible for all positions because Ben Simmons never played. So I love Durant. He's going to be one of my favorite players ever. Yes, he left basketball heaven for this, but everybody shit on him for that too. So it wasn't like it was the best time for him. But I don't know. I don't know what this means. I think it's pretty hysterical right now because Kyrie doesn't have nearly as many options as he'd probably like to think he does. And then

we'd have to have the nuclear option from Durant, which was a hinting at, I think, from the Shams piece today. But this also feels like the prologue to everything this summer. I don't really know how to sift through it yet. Well, it feels like a little bit of a game of chicken. Yeah. The funny thing is KFC, Kyrie has no leverage whatsoever. He has this sign and trade list of teams, apparently, according to Woj.

Lakers, Clips, 76ers, Miami, Mavs, Knicks, none of them have cap space. So his only real leverage is, I've established a pretty good track record of borderline insanity for the last five years. I am the one player in the league who might be insane enough to say, I have 36 million on the books. I can opt into next year. Just opt in player option. I'm going to leave that aside and I'm going to go play for the Lakers for 6 million for one year. I might actually do this.

You don't think I'll do this? Have you seen my last five years? Do you think he would actually do this? Have you ever seen or considered a player giving up 80% of their value just to prove a point? I mean, he gave up half of his salary last year. To prove a point.

Yeah. Right. Great point. So, yes. The answer is yes. I could see him doing that if any player is going to do it it's it's kairi irving but he also has the threat of opting in to bill right he could opt in and say well uh i'll opt out and then make my decision either in july or maybe august or september or october if you don't trade me to this team by opting in, that's really his leverage to get to the Lakers or whatever team it is that he wants to

is by having a one-year prove-it deal. And maybe he goes to his new destination and has a pretty normal season. A normal season. When's the last time we had a normal Kyrie season? I mean, normal is weird for Kyrie, isn't it? Yeah. Sierra, I have some stats for you on that.

You know I love numbers. Well, these are pretty simple. He hasn't had a really good playoffs in five years. Last one was 2017. Last year, he had a good game won against the Celtics. Last three games, he was 15-5-5. He shot 38%, shot 18% from three. He got worked on defense, and they got swept.

At least he played. Yeah, he played, but it was very similar to his 2019 playoffs. I posed this question, Marcelo. I don't know if you remember this, but a couple years ago, and there's a breakout video we did for The Ringer about whether he was like our generation, Stefan Marbury. CR, you were there for the Marbury experience. Is that how we're going to remember him? Basically, Stefan

Marbury, but he also made the shot in finals. And that's the difference? I mean, I think I'll always think of Marbury as what could have been. And Kyrie, I think, has a little bit more on his resume to point to. But you're definitely in the right ballpark. I definitely think

that this is starting to turn into it's eating up most of his professional career post cleveland now and yeah at a certain point you have to be like this isn't a deviation from the norm it is the norm yeah you agree with that rusello uh yeah i mean he's got the shot in 16 that marbury doesn't have anything close to and i think marbury it was confusing for us in the beginning because it was so dynamic and it was amazing. And he had those runs where you're like, wait, he had 31 and 15. Oh, and they lost again. Like, I don't know that we were as good with that stuff as we are now, or maybe I've just been around a lot longer.

So, you know, Marbury doesn't have anything like Kyrie has those moments, those last three games, what he and LeBron did against one of the best teams we'll ever see in 16 of the Warriors. But there's two things that I think. One, I think the Knicks could get to cap space, but that's one of those deals where any team in the offseason is like, okay, so what do we need to do to max out Kyrie? Like, okay, we've got to trade this guy and attach an asset. We've got to trade this guy and attach an asset. We've got to trade this guy and attach an asset.

And then we get to max the guy who's been out of control for five years. And it's going to get better from ages 30 to 35 than it did from 25 to 30. Yeah. Let's do that. A small player too. Yeah. Right. Like,

does anybody raise their hand and go, wait, what are we doing? That's the thing that I keep wondering is like, where who's, who's suffering from the short-term memory loss around here where all of a sudden it's like Pat Riley, Leon Rose,

all these people are like, the phone is ringing off the hook. I got to go get this guy. Like, are we sure he's an asset? Are we sure he's not just like box office for a team that needs to fill out the arena a little bit more? I have the team for you, KOC. You have to match a ridiculous opportunity with a desperate situation. Who's more desperate than the Lakers? Yeah, exactly.

That would be the team that to me would have to try to figure this out and maybe the sign and trade it doesn't have to be either the 36 million or the six million like you could go a little less maybe it's you know whether the whether the nets would take back westbrook for a year i don't know if picks were attached i don't know you could even go lower and do like a what talon horton tucker and kendrick nunn and try to add up so it could be, you can start Kyrie at somewhere like 20, 25. But to me, the Lakers are the one team that could actually talk themselves into this.

Is there another team or is that it? I mean, from the teams on his list, it was Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, Heat, Mavs, Sixers. I don't love Kyrie for Philly. Don't love him for Dallas. Miami, I get it as a piece to get over the top. Knicks, I get it as a desperation piece. Clippers,

can Kawhi Leonard and Paul George and the Clippers, Ty Liu and that team handle Kyrie Irving? I could see it there too. Notorious alphas who know how to really control a difficult personality. Kawhi's pretty team first, so he would want to make sure that everybody was on the same page. How crazy is it that Reggie Jackson versus Kyrie is an actual argument

that we could have for the next five minutes? Who would you rather have? I'd rather have Kyrie Irving. I think I would rather have Reggie Jackson. Really? What's he, $13 million a year versus Kyrie for like 38? Bill, you're right. Okay. First of all, this isn't really a debate. What are we talking about like think about what we're actually talking about on top of you know couldn't be bothered to show up in 18 to the playoffs because they're playing cleveland it was just you know i demand a trade and now this team could actually get through the east without me against cleveland who i demanded the trade for and then people made excuses for him is why i couldn't make that game

right then um 19 19 was male. He just is totally, totally disinterested in any concept of anything that you're trying to do because he was trying to prove some point and they were terrible. That was one of the most unlikable teams I've ever watched. And then you and I do the segments.

It's like, oh, you're just Boston guys. Like, no, we actually know what the fuck we're talking about here. So that's fine. He goes to Brooklyn. And by the way, for everybody, because this has now become another talking point, like, wellets deserve this the Nets deserve this 30 out of 30 teams if you could say hey you get a signed Kyrie you also get Durant in his prime 30 out of 30 teams do it

some could argue hey the way they were positioned at that moment in that offseason they didn't necessarily need to do it uh 30 or 30 teams and if there's another Durant in 10 years and there's a guy that's material uh they're gonna do it there's a guy that's material, uh, they're going to do it again. All right. Cause that's, that's what this league is. But on top of him not wanting to play in the bubble when most people said he probably could have played and he threatened to want to shut

everything down. So like it keeps happening over and over and over again. So like the other, you forgot 2020, he could have come back member and he just basically shelved himself for the year. Cause KD was hurt. Right.

He could have come back. He could have kept playing. He could have kept playing. He just chose not to. I think everybody understands these things. So then when you start talking about the leverage part of it, there has to be a market. Because even if you don't feel like you have leverage, you know how this league works.

You eventually kind of just give in. You just kind of give in to the guy because he can just threaten to not play. And by the way, the Nets want to pay him. The Nets still want to pay him. They want to pay him big money this has now been talked about windhorse brought it up all the nets wanted was some protection one and one right or like two and one a shorter deal with some yeah or they wanted to do a longer deal was just some protection because it was this weird concept the nets had that was like do you mind if we pay you all this money you play more and like the jonathan isa which was, I think, one of the more interesting deals to look

at at SpotTrack, where, hey, if you don't hit these things, here's your number instead. That's what any rational smart team, I think, would want to do with Kyrie is tie his pay to his performance. So here's the thing I wanted to ask you guys is to what extent is this a package deal? Because honestly what we're staring at is if KD is like, okay, my guy's gone, I'm gone too. That's a franchise leveler. They don't have their picks. I mean, obviously they could get some stuff coming back.

No, but the picks part, Chris, you start looking at what they owe Houston. I have it. So I still hated this trade for them. Basically, all they have to show so far for that trade is Uzban Garuba. I'm talking about the Rockets. They got the 17th pick in 2022. They have first in 24 and 26 and then swaps in 23, 25, and 27.

So figure 23 is out. But yeah, their motivations are a little different because they can't bottom out and get a bunch of picks back because that's the worst case scenario. KFC, they have to get actual players back if they're going to blow this up, right? It can't just be for picks. You would think so.

But I think for them, it's the type of thing where it's just best offer, period. Because Kyrie can have his list. If KD wanted to demand a trade, if he has his list, the Nets have all the leverage there

with Kevin Durant. All the leverage with both of them. Yeah, to understand. Kyrie either has to opt in or he's got to play for the Lakers for $6 million. KD's under contract for four more years. And I still feel like the Nets are in control of the situation.

Ultimately, I just think KD loves playing basketball too much to be like, I'm not going to play. What's he going to do? Hold out? So in the case of the Nets here, with getting players back, would you want to continue competing for the playoffs? Let's say it's the Lakers. Let's say the Lakers were to get Kyrie Irving. Are you talking about a Kyrie trade first or both?

Let's say it is a package deal like Chris was saying. You know, it's KD and it's Kyrie going to the Lakers for AD and Russ and 27 and 29. Something like

along those lines which is not... Which they can get outbid but I'm just saying for the sake of the discussion, what if it's AD going back instead? AD in a situation like that.

Do you want like AD and Ben Simmons to build or would you rather have a pick space package if you do have to blow it up? That could be your dream, an entire clutch franchise. Just 15 clutch clients.

It'd be amazing. You know, there's a sinister side to me that would love to see Kyrie and Katie in separate deals being like, you know, I'd like to go to the Lakers. Although, you know, going back to last time, Durant was available and there was some hope, you know, I'd like to go to the Lakers. Although, you know, going back to last time, Durant was available and there was some hope,

you know, would he ever want to go? And it didn't seem like he vibed at all with the idea of wanting to be in LeBron's shadow. I doubt that's changed too much, but it would be, nothing would be funnier than LeBron and Kyrie talking this through the last couple of weeks of any possibilities.

And then LeBron's like, dude, we can get KD instead, do that. And then he'd just be like, dog, we tried Kyrie. Sorry. Do that. And then he'd just be like, dog, we tried, Kyrie. Sorry. We tried. And then I don't know. I don't know what happened.

But when you said, Bill, when you said the Nets have all the leverage, does anyone have the leverage over the star? Does anyone? Because these guys all end up kind of getting their way. Yeah, I guess the difference in this case is they have to get actual players back for them

because of the picks they owe Houston. And that's where this goes sideways for them. I want to talk in the next segment, talk about KD trades, because I think that's a really fun topic. And by the way, I'm pissed that this hijacked the draft today. But you guys think that this is real, right? If it gets to the Shams Woj zone,

like this isn't just like I'm hearing. We knew this was real. We've been doing segments about this for three, four weeks. I mean, we knew this was headed for Kyrie. Yeah, it's fun to talk about, but like this is happening, huh? But the part I don't get is that KD, this is now just one of the worst relationships I've ever watched somebody be in.

If this was your buddy, you would have the intervention for him at this point, right? Like you got to break up with her, dude. Come on. It's been four years of this. We're going to move to Joshua Tree and open an Airbnb. I don't know. It's going to be great.

You don't understand her. She lit your dog on fire, man. Chris, I just have to mention, the 76ers were one of the six signings for Kyrie. Any thoughts? Any reactions? Any feelings? Is that, like, what would that even be?

Would that be, we're going to try the Harden-Kyrie thing again? Are we going to trade Harden for Kyrie? Like, what is, what are we even talking about there? Harden-Kyrie is the funniest outcome, I think, of anything. So my dream in all of this, not to step on the next segment, but my dream in all of this is that we just reset NBA back in five years. And we just send everybody back to their original teams.

Oh, a do-over. Katie goes back to Oklahoma. Let's get Anthony Davis back to New Orleans. Jarebko's on the Celtics. Does Brasillo have to go back to ESPN? What happens to Brasillo? He's just back to the SVP. All right.

How to fix baseball. That's next. All right. We're going to take a quick... Wait, wait, though. Real quick, though, because I think Chris brings up just something we need to sit... Are we all there that we think this is happening? Because the Shams part of it, yes, but it was very, it was very much like a, a hint

of like, Hey, monitoring the situation. Even the, even the piece on Monday was strategically dropped on a Monday. Um, the way it was written, I thought was very pro Kyrie. There was one line in there that said Kyrie led them to a, a semifinals in the Eastern continent. You're like hilarious like also known as the second round yeah like what what about Kyrie led them to a sweep in 2022 so I don't I don't know if I'm all the way there yet I I don't know I mean this is where this stuff always seems to go so you're right but I guess maybe mentally I'm not I'm not like oh he's never

playing for the Nets again. I don't know. KOC, you agree with this theory? This is, we are now at the point of the chicken where they're in the cars, driving toward each other, but they're still pretty far away from each other. This is the 1950s. The headlights are getting closer, but we're not

near the point of impact yet. I think Kyrie's doing what he needs to do to try to bully them into an extension, basically. KD's trying to help out his friend. But I don't think this is a blow-it-up situation to you. Yeah, whatever you said

about the chickens, that sounds about right. I agree with Ryan there that, you know, this could happen, might happen. It typically does head that way, but we're not there yet. I think if it was out of nowhere,

I wouldn't buy it at all. The only not there yet. I think if it was out of nowhere, I wouldn't buy it at all. The only reason why I guess I'm giving it more credence is if you start from Kyrie postseason being like me and Sean and Joe and Kevin are going to think about like the direction of this franchise and not including Steve Nash

in that statement was strange. All of Sean Marks' stuff about like, let's rebuild the culture here. We got away from that. What about people who put the team above the player? Yeah. That quote he had, I thought that was really interesting. That was a dig. Yeah, clearly

aimed at Patty Mills there. You know, like, I didn't love that. But no, I just think that, like, there's been enough other breadcrumbs around that this seems plausible. It just seems like this got way out of control. And I am kind of like, wouldn't the Brooklyn owner is going to get involved here in a second and just be like, what the hell are we doing? Right? Well, listen, I've heard a lot of KDNet stuff

over the last few weeks that it wasn't great. And anytime you start hearing that, you start wondering, all right, what are the ulterior motives for why I'm hearing this? Russell, I'm sure you've heard the same. KSC, I see the same for you, where it's like, is this other teams trying to will something to happen or is this a real thing? And I think the thing that's changed in this situation is instead of the big three, which is where they were a year ago, now you have Ben Simmons in there. And then Ben Simmons basically ends up not playing a minute for them. And if you're KD and you're looking at this and the Kyrie situation's different,

but then the Ben Simmons, you have no idea what you're getting with him. And you're looking at your basketball mortality. The Warriors have just won the title. You know, Curry's past you and a lot of people's all-time rankings, including mine. And there's a sense of urgency that comes to this. So I do feel like there is a come to the head,

coming to a head moment that we're in, but I don't know if we're in it yet. I think we're going to know on Wednesday with the Kyrie thing. We're going to take a quick break. Let's talk about the really fun piece of this, which is, all right, if KD actually got traded, what would that look like? Because obviously I was just covered in the Rock's body butter, just doing curls, trying to figure this out. That's next. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too.

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Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. Okay, guys. We're doing a most fun KD trade teams

draft. Chris, I'm going to give you the first pick. KOC, you go second. Rosillo, go third. And then I'll go fourth and fifth, and Rosillo will have the sixth pick. Chris. And I can't do the Sixers, right? You can do whatever team you want. You can be as biased as you want. I'm just saying most fun team for KD, for the league, for the storyline, for the title picture, for what it would mean from a drama standpoint, most fun possible trade team. And then

I'll tell you if it could actually happen. You can pass if you're not ready yet. You can do the Minnesota Vikings. Just not send somebody up. Oh, just not send a card in. Yeah. I'll say the Sixers just to get us started. The Sixers. Okay. Yeah. So what does that trade look like? Because Joel Embiid is not in it, but Tyrese Maxey could be in it.

He's untouchable. Even for Durant, I heard that today on Hoopsite. So that's Tyrese Maxey, Tobias Harris. You already gave up some picks. Fievel, you'd have to throw whatever remaining picks. That's fun, but now he's playing with Harden again, who quit on him.

Did he quit on him or did he just say, hey, man, this wasn't the bill of goods you told me it was? What? Sacramento. Sacramento game. Submitted as evidence. Rosillo watches the Sacramento game like every two weeks just with a glass of wine and some barbecue. Sits out and enjoys it. Chris, that

was a homer pick. I'm sorry you went first. KOC, you go next. How about the Grizzlies? Maximum drama. You're in the pocket of Big Furno now. Grizzlies, Warriors, instant rivalry. Turned up to 11 with those two. And for Kevin Durant from a

player roster standpoint, it makes sense because he can lead this young team. He can be the reason why they get over the top. But as Ja and all those young guys get older, he can age gracefully as he nears the end of his contract. And it's easy to figure out salary-wise too. So I had them written down. They obviously have the capability to do a four for one, five for one, whatever. I have some questions. Russell, you can answer this first one. Is Jaron Jackson in that trade? I mean, they would try to limit those. If you had your untouchables list, he'd be the second guy that's untouchable. That's how I you're you know i think i said this earlier this week but like the rule is kind of why do i trade my solution for your problem yeah so that's why you don't usually get you know durant's a little different you would think

uh i don't think it would like destroy who memphis was but he was just i thought he was so good this year defensively i think and i think he's going to get better on offense too so i i'm sure they were trying to figure out a way around doing that but but then it's like, okay, cool. Like Dylan Brooks? All right, seriously? If you're the Grizz, if you can do a Durant offer while making Ja and Triple J and Bane are

the three that, and you can have everyone else in as many picks as we have, but we're keeping those three. It's something like, it's Brooks, it's Zyre Williams, Brandon Clark, Stephen Adams expiring, and a million picks. And I'm not sure that's enough for Brooklyn,

but I'm with you, KFC. Well, who outbids them, though, in that case? Well, we're going to keep going. Rossell, you have the third pick. Before Chicago stunk, I loved seeing this mini Chicago revival. I just loved it. There'd be these Saturday night games, before Chicago stunk, I loved seeing this mini Chicago revival. I just loved it. Like there'd be these Saturday night games, it'd be home and just like seeing that place

go nuts. Stacey King on the mic. Yeah. Hot sauce. And, um, you know, Adam doing it. I just, there's something about Chicago. Like I would love to see them be, you know, look, it's not going to be Jordan, but kind of like in the mix of like, Hey,

they could come out of the East. And one of their biggest issues, when you started seeing the cracks a little bit, you go, if they are in a playoff series, how do they defend any of those other big wings? Not to say that Giannis or Duran or even the easy to defend, but it felt like they had no options.

And the only one was a guy in Patrick Williams coming back after, you know, a rookie year, we still don't know what to do with them. So you could probably do something where you're like DeRozan. This was incredible, man. The first half of the season. What a revival.

However. Thank you. And then maybe you can even throw in Patrick Williams some picks. Maybe Kobe White. None of this is going to feel good for Brooklyn. Every one of these that we throw out there, unless there's just this one anchor piece that somebody else is going to come up with, but I'm looking at more for just the make-believe,

pretend, let's not apply the rules too strictly here. I think Durant and Chicago just would be awesome going into a year. I had them as well. What if it was a Zach Levine sign-and-trade and then the Bulls threw in Patrick Williams as well? KFC, does that feel like 70 to 80 cents on the dollar for you at that point?

KD's going to be the 16th year next year. I mean, something like that's fine. I want picks too if I'm the Nets though. I don't want just a player in that case. I think there would be some picks. Bobby Marks had a tweet about how he thought Durant would command more than any player ever.

The biggest return ever, yeah. I thought that was insane. Davis is nobody. There will never be a bigger trade than the Anthony Davis trade. That is the most assets that will ever be in a trade in our lifetime,

in my opinion. Unless Giannis got traded tomorrow. Do you want plausible destinations or fun destinations? No, fun. I think the Bulls is a good pick. I think I'm going to go fourth. And I think this is a really fun idea.

The Oklahoma City Thunder. Yeah. Come on home, KD. All is forgiven. The old wound. We have a million picks for you. Westbrook's gone. That was one of the reasons you left. We have some million picks for you. Westbrook's gone. That was one of the reasons you left.

We have some cap space for you. We can create this thing. We'll use all our picks. We're going to become an instant correct. Come back here like how LeBron came to Cleveland in 2014. Come home. Come to your safe place. You never should have left.

And they try to work it out. I mean, they certainly have among the most assets, you could say. So, Chris, you suggested that on a text thread. You seemed enthused about that one. Yeah, I mean, I think that the more I thought about it, though, and this is kind of along the same come on home stuff, is I've always heard that he's never been happier than when he was in Austin. I've never been happier than when I was in Burlington.

But what about the Spurs? You know, like what about one last round time around the block for Popovich? And you figure something out that brings KD to San Antonio and essentially revitalizes that franchise, which is kind of like, in a lot of ways, like a sister, like they are trying to develop like a sister city relationship

with Austin anyway. It's a cool place to live. They're 82 million in the cap right now. So they could actually absorb him. I guess the question for me is, what are the Nets getting back that would make them feel better about the fact that they owe Houston all these picks.

So it's almost like Murray would have to be in that trade. The only way to me, San Antonio makes sense is if, if it's a Kyrie KD package deal, Murray comes back, all that stuff. But that it's a fun idea. I don't,

I just don't think Brooklyn's getting enough back from that. Who do you have? KOC. How about Dallas? Similar mindset of Chris Ryan. They're going back to Texas, pair them up with Luca. Who do you have, KOC? How about Dallas? Similar mindset of Chris Ryan there, going back to Texas, pairing up with Luca.

They have some deals they could throw in there, short-term contracts. They have future draft picks. I don't know. I think Dallas makes a lot of sense for... Cube's investing in startups. Yeah, Cube spends $40 million on a KD boardroom documentary.

That's worth like two. Some buy lows of the market tanking. Yeah, I thought about them, but doesn't KD get shit for attaching his wagon to Luka? I think he's already... Hasn't he already been through that war? Yeah. That's not his choice though anyway, though.

It's not like he has total say here where he would end up landing. I just think it would be really fun to see that with Luca. What do you got, Russillo? I'd love for him to be like, y'all motherfuckers hated me before. I'm going back to Golden State. So what does that look like?

Wiggins and Wiseman. And Moody. We'll throw a little Moody on you and Wiseman. And Moody. We'll throw a little Moody on you. Wiseman. I think Golden State would want no part of that. I think they really enjoyed the 2022 run and would not want to. All due respect to Kevin and the two titles

he gave them, but I think they're good. But that would be hilarious if it was like the girl at the end of Swingers calling Mikey, trying to get back together. And Mikey's life's in a much better place. He just doesn't want any part of it. They do have a lot of assets that they could throw together, though, if they wanted to.

Of all the ones we've done, that one's the easiest of like, oh, wait, that would actually kind of be enticing. I have one. This is just for you, Rosillo, but I also really like this trade and I think it makes sense. What about the Phoenix Suns? You could do the DeAndre Ayton

sign and trade could be a piece of it. You could throw Cam Williams in there and you could throw in a bunch of picks. Cam Johnson? I'm sorry, Cam Johnson. Williams too, though. Who's Cam Williams? Who's Cam Williams? Who's Cam Williams?

What sport is he from? Cam Johnson and then a bunch of picks. And KD, the Suns could just patch together their big man thing. They could keep Chris Paul and Bridges and Booker, add KD to that, and they'd be the favorites in the West. KD would have a chance to win. Great

Phoenix basketball history. The fans would love it. They would welcome them. They need to make a move because of the Sarver thing anyway to throw people off the scent. I think there's something there because it doesn't seem like Aiton's going to stay there.

And Detroit made that move yesterday to dump Grant, where clearly they're just going to throw a max at Aiton. But if I'm Phoenix, I'm trying to control that. Do you see that one or no? Well, it might be the only team

where the owner would be like, how much do we owe Durant the fourth year? He's $55 million? I don't know. And he also, didn't he have Monty as an assistant when he was in Oklahoma City?

Yeah. I think that and the Bulls, out of all the teams we've mentioned, are the two that would be like, oh, that team could actually win the title if they did that and the Bulls, out of all the teams we've mentioned, are the two that would be like, oh, that team could actually win the title if they did that and the Nets are still feeling okay. Not Memphis, Bill, for winning the title with Kevin Durant on top of everything else?

Jaron Jackson, John Morant, Desmond Bain? I just think Memphis is, they have to get Jaron Jackson back in that trade if they're doing that. You know, it's a great point because as we were going through all these, like the package outside of the untouchables for Memphis got real thin real quick. It did.

Yeah, but Desmond Bain cannot be the centerpiece of a Kevin Durant trade. We had him as an untouchable. I know. Yeah, but they can offer two firsts in 2022, two firsts in 2024. In the 20s? Yeah. I mean, but still though, that does give Cap draft pick flexibility. It would be sick though. I mean, but still though, that's that does give cap draft pick

flexibility. It would be sick, though. I mean, I agree with you that like watching Durant in that building and seeing Golden State

go in there like for the it would just be absolutely pandemonium. The best. A couple more quick ones. Oh, go ahead, Cassie.

And I just think Memphis Memphis has more picks than I think people give them credit for, like with their flexibility to make big deals. A couple more quick ones.

The Clippers could accommodate a KD and Kyrie combo. And I think Paul George would have to be in that. Reggie Jackson, you know, they could take some contracts back. There could be, that could be like $100 million of contracts going both ways. Paul George would tweet out,

let's go family. Right. Within a second. second wait KOC I may be dismissed then you were telling me Memphis had more I'm sorry I didn't want to like go out of order here again but I didn't want to be dismissive of the point because they had other picks well they have a bunch of extra

picks other than their own picks yeah right Utah this year Warriors and I think 24 yeah okay all right two more teams and then we'll move on. The Hawks, you know, they could they could

DeAndre Hunter, Collins and just a shitload of picks and pick swaps and still have enough of a team left to try to compete with Durant and Trey. I can't imagine Durant and Trey playing together. I think that would be pretty bizarre, but I think they have to be considered.

Then I was trying to figure out a Wizards trade just because he's from the DMV. And man, it's like, hey, Porzinga and Kuzma and a million picks, any interest? I just don't see the Nets pulling the trigger. I feel like they have to get a real person back that they can point to. That's why the Zach Levine one is

I think the most interesting one to me because it seems like he's going back to the Bulls too, right? What about the Celtics? I can't believe Did you not pick them on purpose? Would you do Jalen Brown for Durant right now, Bill? Is Grant Williams untouchable? No, we're trading Grant Williams to the Hawks for Herter.

I'm trying to telepathically will that to happen. I'm glad you resisted for this long, Bill. I'm impressed with you. I was like, there's no way he'll go first. But when you snaked it, I was like, he'll do it. He'll do it out of respect. I was like, he's going to pick Boston. So talk us through it.

He didn't want to go there. Like six years later. They came in second. Remember how proud everybody was that they came in second that year in the free agent thing? You think you're better than me, KD? Well, one of the pods I did with him, he basically said like, yeah, I was never going to Boston. They never finished second. There was no second.

I wasn't going to Boston. I didn't want to go there. I couldn't believe like, man, the Celtics. I was like, why are people bragging about coming in second? That's not really second. That's how bad the free agent history was with the Celts. All right, so predictions before we

No, I want to throw one at the panel. What if Orlando calls and be like, hey, you want the number one pick? It's interesting. I like it. Wow. I think the Nets need

more in the trade, right? Yeah. But if you're Orlando, you do it, right? No one's that stupid yet. It's early in the pod, but yeah, so it's like you just get it over with. You're like, hey, we haven't been good for a long time. Serena wants to throw in Isaac. He's excited.

Isaac Fultz, we'll give you a little sprinkle of Cole Anthony. Well, if Orlando said, we'll give you Suggs in the number one pick for Durant, and then the Nets, they get this whole new cap situation where if Kyrie leaves,

now all of a sudden, they have actually a chance to go do some stuff. That's a pretty fun one. I personally, Durant at this stage in his career, year 16, I think he has to go to a team

that could win the title next year. It doesn't make sense to trade him. You can't trade for him and be like, two years from now, we're going to be awesome. He's had just a really significant

Achilles injury. And I thought, we need to figure out what happened to him in that Boston series too. So you're saying Jalen's off the table? I'm not commenting on any Celtics stuff. You want to see the medicals? I want to see them use the trade exception. I think the Celtics

team's close. I want to see them get a wing who can score. KOC, would you do the Fournier? That was a report today that the Knicks were like, here, take Fournier. No. Who would you get for that trade exception? Do you have somebody you like? Malik Beasley? Somebody like

that. Kuzma? Kuzma, is he under 17 mil? Yeah, he's 13. Okay, that. Kuzma? Kuzma, is he under 17 mil? Yeah, he's 13. Okay, yeah. Kuzma would make a lot of sense. I like him a bunch. I'm surprised or so against KD, Bill. I mean... You need a wing that can score, Bill. You wouldn't give up like Marcus Smart, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, and Purse?

It's a total he turned us down before. You think you're better than SKD? You didn't want to come here? Now you want to come? Okay, instead of taking a break break we're just going to go right to the draft there was some major chicanery now it's 3.51 so 40 minutes to the draft some chicanery last night in the gambling sites all of a sudden Paolo was a favorite

and it was hard to say if it was like you know like just a bunch of teenagers trying to game the market or what the F was going on. But I went to bed last night at 1.30 in the morning and Paolo was like minus 175 to be the first pick. And it just seemed like, oh, so they must have a trade where they're much like the Tatum Sixers trade. They're just going backwards two spots. They're getting their guy anyway. Then today, all of a sudden, Jabari's minus

600 again. And Woj tweeted that he thought it was going to be the top three in the direction that it went. KFC, what happened? Do you have an explanation for this weird Paolo search? What happened? I don't know. I've texted with a handful of people around the NBA about it.

And most of them seem to think could it have been someone who made a gigantic bid on Paulo Bencaro with the number one pick? Someone in the inner circle that swung odds a certain way and influenced the markets. Is that a reasonable

explanation for something that could have happened? I'm not sure exactly how those odds are determined necessarily, especially in the wee hours of the morning. It's just like Mickelson rolled up on the Wynn sportsbook. It was just like, it's Palo. Well, Raheem Palmer, who's with The Ringer and on The Ringer Gammock Show, he heard that there are a couple pretty sizable Palo bets.

Yeah. It was like 20 to 1 and 15 to 1. But it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And if I had to bet on something, it was that people wanted to bet Jabari and maybe they put money down to swing the Palo ads and then came over the top with even more Jabari money. But, Priscilla, were you buying

that there might be a one for three swap last night? What were you thinking? Well, I mean, it only could have been because of a trade unless Orlando has been gaming this the entire time. I mean, if we look at the timeline in Chicago, when I was there for the combine right after the lottery, it was just Jabari, Jabari, Jabari to the point where I thought, is everybody just repeating everybody else? Is there anything insightful in all this? And then I think there might've been some hopeful momentum just in general of would they do this instead? But Paolo was never, he never

seemed to be on the conversation. And to confirm that he didn't go in, they didn't bring him in. And I don't know if that was them not being interested in him, which seems a little weird because just from a survival standpoint of running a front office, you would go, hey, is there a version of events where Paolo is the best player in three years? Yeah. I mean, that's a reasonable- What are they trying to say if it's a first-class ticket and a hotel room for a night? Like, why wouldn't they bring him in? It makes no sense. Well, because the other side of it,

depending on what you believe, is that maybe Paolo wasn't super interested in even going there. So it could have turned... I don't know really what to believe. I'm just sharing sort of the surface of it that it was, you know, who was not pursuing who. But ultimately, here we are, day of the draft,

he never went in. So I'm waking up this morning seeing all this movement. Then I see the Woj order, which was kind of the consensus order for over a month here, that it was Jabari Chet Paolo. And so I was like, what? Vegas is going at Woj? I'm like, this is crazy.

And I never really made a ton of sense unless it was one of those old Red Auerbach things where it's like, let's not bring in the guy that we're into to try to see if we can trade down later on. I was open to any theories, but it just seemed a little odd that the relationship was not the same as it was for Orlando, which you've already checked.

Chris, give us your top three. My top three in order? Yeah. Who do you think is going to be the best player in this draft five years from now? I've kind of fallen in on this Jaden Ivey thing. Oh, my God. Whoa. Okay.

Explain. Well, I just like, I was just watching. Like, I've just gotten really, really into him. I know that he's kind of just always been considered outside of these. He's been the consensus fourth pick for like forever, right? KOC? Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't know. I just like I'm not a draft expert by any means. I just love I love watching him and he seems like the kind of guard you would want. I understand the argument

for Jabari. I understand that he played with crappy guards at Auburn. I understand that he's basically the prototype for what you want on the wing right now. But just on a personal

taste level, it's not out of the question that the number four pick could be the best player in the draft three years from now, right? It is not out of the question. Do you guys like him? How do you guys feel about him? He's grown on me when I was doing my homework. Just because you can kind of see the roadmap for him with other players

we already have. He's just clearly... There's real reasons for why he might have looked a little clumsy in some of those Purdue games with the big guys they had and all that stuff. To me, I think he has to be the fourth pick because I remember there was

some buzz like, well, the Kings might just take Murray. Ivy has to go in that spot whether they're keeping the pick or not, but I think he's solidified that. KFC, you agree with that? He seems to be stuck in that fourth spot, whether it's to the Kings or to a team that trades into it.

Chris, I see the appeal, too. People call him this year's John Morant for good reason with how much of a high flyer he is. Dude just creates highlights on a nightly basis on the floor so he's a fun player and he's an exciting player it's just a matter of for me the one reason why i'd have my hesitations about putting him in the top three is what level of is he going to be with

his scoring efficiency he didn't shoot well until his sophomore year at purdue and even then he wasn't great off the bounds wasn't great off the catch and defensively he is a long way to go on that end too and we just watched the postseason in which anybody who was small was getting targeted even yeah even derrick white who's a great defender was getting targeted for boston like just the smallest guy is going to get targeted for ivy uh there's a lot of you know like a questionable fit with him next to dearon fox or him next to davion mitchell if the kings were to take him so i like him a lot but i'm not in love with him as the best prospect on the draft. Do you guys want to know the second dude on my big board? Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Matherin. I like it. See, he did great in CR's interview with him. You have a type, Chris.

Rusillo, who says no? If, if Sacramento calls San Antonio and says, we'll give you the number four and Davion Mitchell for Murray right now? Number four in Davion for Murray? This DeJounte to Atlanta rumor that was picking up last night. Made no sense.

It doesn't make a ton of sense because I'm not sure why you'd want DeJounte with Trey unless you felt like he was, I mean, I don't think we'd argue he's so far along defensively that saves, protects Trey. And I was kind of thinking like, because I didn't really know that it made any sense. So as I was kind of talking myself through it, thinking about it, I was like, was this some version of them being like, you have to pass now and let other guys initiate the offense. But again, it didn't make a ton of sense because I actually think he's just really

valuable still to San Antonio. I mean, his contract. His contract's unbelievable. 16.6, 17.7. On my trade value list that I might release this summer, I had him 35th. Oh, what a tease. 35th. Delay the draft.

Also. Huge jump. Huge jump this year. 26 years old, huge jump. Really cheap. So I don't know that I'd be in a hurry to trade him, even though I think there's a ceiling for Ivy. That's how I feel. Yeah.

He was 21-8-9 for the Spurs with, like, I thought elite defense. And I just don't know why you would trade somebody on a cheap contract unless... Two years left. That's why. Maybe they worry about him bouncing after the 2024 season. Right. I think it's a hard one because there's another version of Ivy where you're looking back at this.

I mean, a couple teams I talked to earlier in the process had him, one team had him two, another team had him three. So this isn't, you know, it's easy to do it when it's not your pick. But that's why I think Sacramento, ultimately, like,

even if you don't think it fits, and Ivy, I mean, did you read some of the stuff? Like, I don't think he shared the medicals with them. I don't think he did. I mean, so you you read some of the stuff like i don't think he shared the medicals with them i don't think he did i mean so you guys can double double that was the hell no that was it yeah right yeah yeah yeah and then i think he had a quote where it wouldn't be the worst thing so um you know not ideal not ideal but i'm not passing on ivy for keegan murray and the other thing i keep getting back to is like, oh, well, you know, he's going to need the ball

and De'Aaron needs the ball. Everybody that you're drafting in this slot at some point is going to want to touch the basketball in a game. So, you know, like either guys figure it out or they don't. So, I don't know. Except Marvin Williams, I think, was the one exception. Yeah, he was good. Didn't need to touch the basketball.

KOC, would it stun you? A, if OKC took Ivy at 2 or B, if they flipped a Sacramento 2-4 because they liked Ivy more than anybody else in the draft and just wanted the value of that. Would that shock you? The first one would

stun me where if they just took Ivy at 2, the second one wouldn't with a trade down to 4. I love how everybody's trying to pretend they know how OKC thinks. We've never known how they've thought for how many years? 15? Now we have insight that they definitely like Chet. To me, that number two pick,

I'm ready for anything with that pick. I'm not sure it's as much insight that we know they like Chet as they offered a bunch of picks for Evan Mobley last year. So it's that type of player the versatile long arm versatile defender who can defend, you know on the perimeter protect the rim. That's

what they're looking for. They like everybody else. They want Victor Wemba and Yama in 2023. If they have still have all their picks, they'll do the same thing next year and offer 10 first rounders to get him if they don't have the number one pick. So it's the type of player that that they're seeking whether I mean whether they prefer Chet over Jaden get him if they don't have the number one pick. So it's the type of player that they're seeking. I mean, whether they prefer Chet over Jaden Ivey,

we don't know that. Rusillo, what's your top three right now? It's now 4-0-1. The draft's about to start. Paolo Ceccivari. Are you ready for my top three after five flip-flops? Yeah, you te tease this, right?

I've changed my mind, by the way, multiple times. I like all four players. Ryan, is that your order that you think they'll get drafted in or the order you would go? No, no, no, no. This is not the job to tell you who the best player is right now. That's not what the job is of drafting. Paolo right now is, I think,

so far superior to these guys offensively that I'm a little surprised because he's so further along that then it's like, oh, because his ceiling is lower. It's like, well, maybe he's just closer to a ceiling that is also still really high. I get the Chet part. I've had moments with Chet where I'm like, fuck, would you want to pass him? What could be this really special player? And there's other times with Jabari where I think, don't screw it up. Like he already shoots it this well.

He's got this amazing body. He already defends like a guy who's been playing a really long time. And that's the point. Like even going to Ivy and Mather would be my fifth guy. I ended up falling in love with a ton of players in this draft.

So I don't, I couldn't sit here and say, hey, I hate this part. Like I wish Jabari could dribble better. He can't now. I don't know. and say, hey, I hate this part. I wish Jabari could dribble better. He can't now. I don't know.

That's a little concerning. The Chet thing is all body type. But Paolo first half against Gonzaga, Paolo against Texas Tech, hits a three, drives through guys, spins in the lane, then drives right, brings the double, and a beauty pass to Mark Williams, finishes with a dunk. Just stuffing these big moments on the biggest stage where it's like, all right, I know everybody's looking at me and I need to take over.

Those other guys aren't there yet. Not to say it's impossible, but when I watch all of them and I went over and over and over it, I'm like, why are you making this so hard? He's just better than these guys are right now, which again, as I repeat from earlier, I know that's not the job the job is projection not right now but I just think it's pretty clear I respect it he's definitely

tantalized me I just love Jabari and I'm back in and that's my guy you had a Chet day was it a Chet weekend you guys hung out a little bit I I guess we could talk about this more in part two, but I just kept coming back to the body

and the injury possibilities with him, and it was too scary for me ultimately. I was just thinking about the tallest players ever. Chet's only seven feet, right? But you think seven, three and up, we've had a lot of injury disasters, right? Bradley, Yao, Eaton, Smits, Sampson, Ogoskis, Sabonis, The Beat, Porzingis, just guys that they were just too tall and their bodies couldn't hold

up for whatever reason. He's only seven feet. And I think there's two types of seven footers. There's like that Tyson Chandler type where you just watch them when they're young and you're like, oh, that guy, he just seems fluid. I can see him having a long career. Now, ironically, he had some back injuries at one point. But this to me reminds me more of like, I'm going to use, like Bynum's completely different than Chet, but Bynum watching him run in person. And I was just like, man, that doesn't look a hundred percent great. And Bynum was good for a few years, right? Oden was the same thing. You watched him, you're like, oh, that doesn't look a hundred percent great. And Bynum was good for a few years, right? Oden was the same thing. You watched him, you're like, ah, that doesn't look a hundred percent great. I've just never seen somebody with Chet's body work for like a 15 year NBA career with the amount of banging and just, he's going to have to put muscle on it. What's that going to look like?

And it just, I'm not saying he's going to get hurt. It just makes me nervous. Whereas Jabari, I know what he is. Like, I know he's going to score and. It just makes me nervous. Whereas Jabari, I know what he is. I know he's going to score. And I think he's competitive. I think he'll get better. I'm not scared of the dribbling stuff yet. He's fucking 19. He's always been an elite guy all the way through his thing. To me, he's the safest bet.

And I hate doing that with the number one pick in the draft. But I don't think any of these guys are going to be guys who are like, you know, winning the best player on like four title teams. I think these have a chance to be all NBA guys, but I don't, I don't, this isn't to me Durant in 2007,

anything like that. So I'm going safest bet. So I would go Jabari. I would go Palo and then Chet. I think Chet's three for me because I can't get the, I can't get the durability piece

out of my head, KFC. That's where I landed. We're on the same page with Chet at three and we're on the same page that it's close. I'm with Ryan, though, to have Paulo Banqueiro number one because you mentioned the safety in Jabari Smith with what he can

provide defensively, what he can provide as a shooter. I feel that same safety with Paulo Banqueiro as a guy who can get you a bucket at the end of the shot clock, but that's the hardest thing to find. So, I mean, what's the argument for you for Jabari over Paulo? Because I'm with you on Jabari over Chet,

but why over Paulo? So, it's two things. One is that I like Jabari's fit with Franz better because I think they're both keepers. And I just think the two of them together makes sense to me more in my head. The other piece is,

Jabari's worst case there is Richard Lewis, right? Best case scenario, he's like a, he's sniffing Durant. Nobody's going to be Durant. Durant's going to be one of the 15 best players, but some Durant stuff to him. I love the fact how tall he is. I just think he's going to be able to get his shot off. I was watching a lot of it this

week. The 6'10 and where he releases it, I just think he's going to be able to get his shot off. I like how explosive he is. The shot is gorgeous. The shot is like a 30-year leading scorer in the NBA. A gorgeous pull-up jumper. I like how he attacks

and how he's got this pretty crazy wingspan when he goes to the basket. It's not just athletic. There's some real oomph to it. And if you're telling me over the next four years, can he be better at dribbling?

Even somebody like Tatum, who I wouldn't say he's the greatest dribbler, but I think he's really progressed as somebody who could run the offense off pick and greatest dribbler, but I think he's really progressed as somebody who could run the offense off pick and roll, stuff like that. I think Jabari, I think he's competitive.

I want to bet on the guy. I think whatever his deficiencies are, I think he'll work on them over and over and over until he gets better and better at it. The Palace three-point shooting kind of worried me a little bit. Now, it's college, it's smaller sample size and all that, but you wouldn't exactly call him a dead eye. Well, no i no one's saying that i mean that knocks on paulo and that's

the other part of this that i've kind of understood sometimes when i hear it like i always have concerns about somebody who's already thick at a young age and it's like how big are you going to get like drew gooden had a really nice career in the nba but if you went back to his kansas stuff the thing that made him special is like is this guy going to create he's going to drive and then he got really thick in the hip ass and legs and then it kind of became this rebounding turnaround shooter he still had a nice little run but that's not what you're thinking about when you're taking somebody number one overall follow so that is part of it where it's like what what does his body look like? Because he's a big kid already.

Some of the knocks that I heard consistently is that is he this power forward that wants to show off that he's a shooting guard and all this stuff. I completely disagree with that. I look at his, hey, he's a 6'10 kid who does have these skills. But think about Duke.

I cannot say this enough, but we will throughout the draft tonight. Wendell Moore needs the ball in his hands. He's a shooting guard, but he kind of likes the ball. And then Roach, another five-star dude who had huge moments for him. More traditional point guard. To the

point where A.J. Griffin stuck in the corner. He didn't even get to dribble, even though it would have been nice to see him on the ball a little bit more. I think 45% of his possessions for A.J. were spot- up shots because they just stuck him in the corner so much. And Paolo played well in that system. That to me is the stuff that I love. It's like, oh, wait, here's a young guy that's talented, supremely talented. And yet he wants to share, he gets the ball. He doesn't dribble it every time he catches the ball. He'll swing it without a dribble. He'll go down on screen. He'll pop back up. There was some stuff there where I'm like, yeah, I don't think it's one of those big guys that wants to show you all his perimeter skills. I think he just has them and it's a nice bonus because I don't think he was overbearing like all three prospects. I'm with you. I really do.

I don't think there's a wrong choice. I think the two-way stuff with Jabari, I think was another thing that pushed her over the top. I think he could be a really, really, really, really good defender. Paolo will be fine, but I don't think he'll be the two-way menace that I think Jabari potentially could be. I love the competitiveness.

By the way, watching all the Jabari highlights, who is the guy in his team that sometimes Jabari would do something and he had a teammate who would have these incredible reactions? Was it the wing, Flanagan, or the guards? There was a guy on the court who would be jumping up and down, fist pumping as Jabari was doing something, but he was on the court. It was like having Mark Madsen on the court as a teammate. I really enjoyed that guy. You sure it wasn't one of the guards mad that he took a shot?

Maybe the guard was acting out. We have to go. The part one was too long. Kyle's getting mad. We're going to come back. It'll be the first pick of the draft when we come back. Part two will be probably picks one through six. Part three will be picks seven through 15. Then we're going to do winners and losers after. CR,

thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me, guys. All right. And KOC and Roussel, I'll see you in about a half hour. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Dylan Berkey, Steve Cerulli as well. I don't have feelings within On the wayside, on the first time I never on the side

I don't have feelings within