The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draftapalooza, Part 1: Westbrook to the Lakers and Hield’s Trade Upside With Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: July 29, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor before the start of the 2021 NBA draft to discuss the rumored Lakers-Wizards trade that would bring Russell Westbrook to Los Angeles, the prospect of trading for Buddy Hield, more fake Ben Simmons trades, and more! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Van Lathan and I did The Bodyguard on Monday. We have a sports movie coming up next Monday. So there you go. Here's the plan for today. It's me, it's Ryan Russillo, it's Kevin O'Connor. This is part one. This is going to be either a three or a four part Draft Day Extravaganza.

We taped this part one at 345 Pacific time on Thursday, reacting to the Russell Westbrook rumor trade and a whole bunch of other stuff, trying to set up what we thought the draft would look like. So if you listen to it, that is the context. We went from, I think, 345 to almost 430. Part two is going to be us basically live watching the first few picks.

And that might be part three as well. And then part four will be a winners and losers pod after all of this is done. So four-part pod. We're going to be throwing them up. Enjoy them. I love the draft. This is my favorite day of the year. I've been sick for the last two days.

Not COVID. But I rallied. If anything is going to make me rally, it's the NBA draft. So that is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. It is part one of the multi-part NBA draft mega podcast. Ryan Rossellos here, Kevin O'Connor. So we tried to do this on green when we're having technical difficulties. So we're just doing this as a podcast.

Right now it is 3.45 Pacific time Thursday. Draft is about an hour 15 minutes away. We've had some bombs already. We don't know if this is official, so you're going to have to hang with us if you're listening to this as a podcast. News might change. Our reactions might change.

We thought it would be fun to capture our reactions in real time. Westbrook to the Lakers. Kuz is in there. KCP, Harrell, and the 22nd pick, or as I texted to Joe House, the poo-poo platter. Not a bad collection of role players, I guess. But KOC, Lakers, Russ, what was your immediate reaction? I mean, they're going to need a playmaker if they lose Schroeder. So Russell Westbrook adds that. He raises their ceiling with what he can be at his best. But what I worry about is if you're playing AD at the four, if you're continuing to do that,

your spacing is just going to be horrific around LeBron James. AD needs to put on his big boy pants here, play more five, more LeBron at the four, and then I think it could work. I mean, it could work in that case because of what russell westbrook can provide but like the situation needs to be perfect there for this to be ideal for the lakers riscilla you more optimistic yeah a little bit because i mean we are still on like basically day one of the reconstruction of all of these teams so what

will happen is there's some sort of acquisition and then we're like oh my god they don't have this this and this we're like dude we haven't even started free agency. We're two weeks away and knowing the Lakers, knowing how this organization is operated, like they're going to be able to add some other pieces.

There's two ways of looking at this. I think for the regular season, I know I'm not the biggest Westbrook guy. I actually kind of like it. I think the Lakers will love having his energy, his 11 out of 10 effort throughout the entire regular season, him bringing the ball up constantly, and he's going to have big nights. I mean, look, he's an incredibly talented player.

We know that. So I think there's a part of him that can help kind of carry them emotionally throughout the regular season in a way that would feel like a grind for LeBron having to carry them the whole time, Anthony Davis having to carry them the whole time. So I do think that this is a team. And remember, on paper, coming in, in the first month or so, two months of the season, we're all looking at the Lakers going, hey, they're even better than they were last year.

Now, obviously, there's other roles to be placed there. But I think for the regular season, there's a part of me that actually thinks it makes sense, but that's also based on, okay, now where's the spacing? Where's the shooting? Playoffs, that's something completely different because the last few minutes of a game, I don't know what you're going to be doing with Westbrook because I don't want to making decisions and he doesn't space the floor. And honestly, LeBron's just going to take over and control every single big position that matters anyway,

because that's what he's done his whole career and he should so they use him they use him as 2020 Rondo bubble kind of version maybe in the playoffs where he's just kind of lurking around doing Rondo turned into like Steph Rondo's shooting I could

I mean it's still one of the most amazing playoff runs that would be unexpected of a guy he hit every big three it felt like so go So go ahead. Go ahead, Cassie. I know, and I think Ryan mentioned it at the top there. The Lakers aren't done necessarily. There's still more moves to be made that make it hard to react to how Russell Westbrook fits in because if they do get Westbrook

for some type of package close to what was reported, that doesn't necessarily stop them from also getting Buddy Heald or somebody else in a sign and trade involving Talon Horton, Tucker or Dennis Schroeder or even Alex Caruso for that matter. Like there's still more moves to be made for the Lakers on top of getting Westbrook. So like even though like this could be looks like a Heald or Westbrook situation right now, it could be both when this is all said and done come August 6th when they're actually allowed to do a deal like that. I like the Kuzma Harrell in 22 for Heald more than this

Westbrook trade. I like Buddy Heald. I know he takes a beating on some of the advanced metric stuff and there's some empty calories stuff with him, but I've also never seen him in a good situation. And I do like getting distressed assets from other teams. We just saw it with Bogdanovich last

year, where there's something to be said for a guy who has at least one elite skill set playing in a playoff games. I just look at this Westbrook thing. Here's the list of like super duper stars he's played with. Kevin Durant, Paul George, superstar, not a super duper star. Paul George. No, superstar,

not a super-duper star. James Harden twice. Bradley Beal. Now he's with LeBron and AD. Pokaszewski? No, he missed him, right? Who? Pokaszewski, Westbrook.

He was gone. They didn't overlap. That's right. My bad. But he's won one finals game ever and it just... I don't feel like anybody's had more superstar luck

in the history of the league than Westbrook. He just moves from super duper star to superstar to super duper star. He just bounces around. Beal and George are like the worst two stars he's played with, except for the 2017 season. And we just haven't seen it produce winning basketball in the playoffs. So he puts up all these stats, and then the playoffs, there's always some reason why his team didn't win.

It really feels risky to me on the Lakers' side, because if it doesn't work, I don't know what your outs are. He can even opt in next year, right? What is it? 47? He's 44 this year. He's 47 player option next year. 47 million for him in two years. You don't think there's a nefarious second deal

where they pretend they want Westbrook, and then they flip him for somebody making even more money, right? Who else is left that's making more money? Lilix extension? Kyrie? Well, they got rid of Shamit, so Kyrie's good. Yeah, Kyrie's good.

He's like, well, we got Shamit. I'm reinvested. I was thinking how funny it would be if it was a Kyrie-Russ something where the Nets would then have Russ Harden and KD. What the hell? What did you just turn this into? I know. We're not even.

We got a long time to go. And then LeBron and Kyrie is back. It's just like the reunited trade. For what it's worth, Bill, the only players making more than Russell Westbrook are James Harden, John Wall, and Stephen Curry. Oh, Jesus. Well, that John Wall trade is looking great now. I like the Buddy Heald deal more. Rossello, clutch client and cleaning house

here? How many of these guys going to Washington are clutch guys? You look at Montrez and you go, okay, player option, it's under $10 million. He can probably get that somewhere else. Why would he opt in to then now be like, hey, this is where you're going

instead of having free agency decisions and a longer term deal. And you're like, Oh, he's a clutch client. Right. Well, you go, Oh,

all right. So Hey, opt in so we can trade you. Right. Sure. He gets 10 million though. I'm not sure about that. He had a bad end of the year.

Okay. Here's the deal. Even if it's eight, you get to pick where you want to go. Right. And that's, you know, at this stage of your career, especially when it was the Sacramento part. So I wonder if that's how the Westbrook thing came along, where you're going like, hey, will you opt in? And you're like, well, am I getting traded for Westbrook or Healds?

I have an incredibly important question for you. A.D. LeBron, Russell Westbrook at this stage of the year of his career. What are the big three kind of abilities that we have here? Are we allowed to call this a big three? I don't feel like this is a big three because I don't feel like Westbrook carries that kind of big three weight anymore. But I think some people are going to do that. Where do you stand on big three? Perk just said it's heat part two. So, I mean, you people are going to do that. Where do you stand on big three? So most people. Perk just said it's heat part two. So I mean, it's already started. The trade isn't even official.

Heat part two? Yeah. I mean, Perk was ready. I was like, pace yourself. The 1996 heat? Look, if you go look this up, it is one of my favorite pieces of content on the internet. And that's saying something. Somebody on NBA.com years ago ranked the top 40 big threes of all time. We got to Joe Johnson and Paul Millsap and Jeff T at one point. They were towards the bottom.

They were towards the bottom of the ranking. So this will be called the big three. I mean, when the resumes and then Los Angeles and all that. But you're talking about Westbrook Star star luck, which is an incredible resume. Like, that'd be a really, that's something you should rank if you still wrote. Yeah, I'm retired. I don't think, is anybody doing that anymore? Like, does anybody think there's some unlocked version of Russ that we haven't seen yet? I mean, that's the part that scares me.

Because now it's 40 plus million, 47 million. And you're like, did you actually make yourself better in the regular season but worse in the playoffs because you're right i mean he lost he didn't just lose in the playoffs he would always seem to lose when it's like wait you're losing to that team in the first round he had it like every year it's bad koc i know you don't love westbrook as a winning basketball player just go ahead unleash it on us i mean one of the first articles i wrote here when i got hired back in 2016 was the russell westbrook roadmap about how he could evolve as a player you do a lot of those like hey can this guy do these things he's never done before this is how you know and i love it and i did a westbrook roadmap 2.0 i think i did a russell westbrook problem article i've done so many different

versions of the same article for the five years about Russell Westbrook and how just a couple simple tweaks he could become a winning player and it's never happened it will never happen but it could happen if he decided to with LeBron James I don't see him becoming a guy that's not going to shoot 18 you know shots per game I don't see him becoming a guy who focuses consistently on defense I don't see Russell Westbrook becoming a guy you can rely on in those endgame situations. It just hasn't happened. He's 32 years old right now. It's unrealistic to expect him to change. Could it happen? Sure.

But I'm not anticipating it. I'm not anticipating it. When you say focus on defense, and this is the part where it separates the men from the boys. We're talking basketball. If you can't see his mistakes on defense in late game situations that are devastating that are way worse than just a missed shot then then i can't talk to you about it like if you think that's all media bias and people being asked like i watch it

all and if you can't see the things that he'll he'll do three or four things in the last couple minutes of a close game where his instincts like he just and it's the part that you admire that he's always thinking i can fix this i can fix this but in the nba you can't just freelance all the time on defense and at least the thing i'm looking forward to from an entertainment standpoint is he's probably going to be one of the only other players that will tell lebron to fuck off numerous times like when they're battling about shot selection and rotations and all that kind of stuff i sign me up i hope they extend them and piggybacking on that point he brings a lot of stuff to the table that we've seen not succeed with lebron like just defensive lapses defensive indifference um really weird decisions in the last two minutes of a game, right? The 28-footer out of nowhere with 18 seconds of the shot clock,

the drive into traffic when somebody else has scored 10 straight points on his team, things like that. And then, you know, him, the box score padding, paddings might be a little harsh, but, you know, he fills up these different parts of the stat sheet. How is he going to do that on a team with LeBron and AD in it? What's AD going to do the first time Westbrook's crashing in on a free throw rebound? AD will probably give it to him.

Oh, you think? AD's like, cool, you take this. Yeah, I got paid. I don't care. But then on top of it, him not being able to shoot. The parallels to me, I know he's a much better player than Wade was in 2017-18, but watching how when they tried to, remember they were trying to integrate Wade

into that last Cavs team, and it just didn't work, and you could tell right away, and I wonder if that could be where this goes. I think it's really risky. Westbrook's a better player right now than Wade was at that point. 100%. No question. For sure. Twice as good. To your point about the limitations, though,

with the shooting. 78% better? Yeah. 49% better, maybe? With Westbrook, it's not like he is an efficient spot-off shooter either.

He's an inefficient spot-off shooter, so you're going to sag off him. He needs to get hot. Like you mentioned with Rondo, he turned into Steph

for a couple of weeks. That's what needs to happen when we're talking about a year from now in the playoffs. We need a hot Russell Westbrook in the playoffs from spot up threes because there's going to be a situation where that's what he's going to have to do because it's inevitable at some point LeBron takes control.

There's no way it's a situation where LeBron gives up control in a game six or game seven to Russell Westbrook. It's not going to happen and if it does, sorry, this is a big mistake. Well, we've already seen Westbrook do this in Houston and he was miserable as the sidekick relegated to the side on Houston. He didn't like it

and that's... What's wrong with that though? Unless LeBron's going to take a big step back. That's the thing that bothers me. It's like you can impact winning by doing other stuff besides shooting. Offensive rebounding, all that. that's the thing that bothers me it's like you can impact winning by doing other stuff besides shooting right you can impact like offensive rebounding all that no kidding like he can like look i hate to always bring up the bruce brown thing it's bruce brown on the nets but i like the way they used a 6-3 guard that can't shoot they use them as a center use westbrook so now

russ is bruce brown rossillo i like this I like where this is going. $43 million Bruce Brown. No offense, but... You can adapt some of those ways you utilize a guy like that. Yeah, I got you. And do it with Westbrook. Right. But, I mean, any comp to Bruce Brown is like, okay, do you have three of the single best offensive players in the history of the game?

You don't? Oh, okay. Well, you might not get one and a half. So, you know, I mean, what Bruce brown gets to do doesn't exist anywhere else so i like bruce brown i'm happy for him man what did they throw out the qualifying office really rich man's bruce brown a billionaire man's bruce brown right the only difference is he's cost 47 million that'd be a pretty good player in a game six game seven if that's what you're gonna do i, I'd rather that than Russell Westbrook jacking up a 17-footer with 15 seconds on the clock.

Let's not lose sight, Russillo, of the fact that this is going to be a really fun partnership. I have some things that I'm already excited for. I made a little list for you. Somebody writing the long twos are back article talking about the Phoenix Milwaukee,

how that just became the blueprint. You win the title around the rim and with twos and just good baskets and getting to the line and that, that basketball is back in Westbrook. The league has shifted back toward it. I'm excited for whoever writes that piece. Good luck. Um, I am excited for the Russ, the I'm coming home stuff with him coming back to LA. And that's going to be like LA porn, all the Russ stuff. And he's back and he grew up here. We'll hear that story. No, the misunderstood stuff, the misunderstood Russ thing is going to be unbelievable.

This is where he's going to finally find himself in the place that he grew up. That's going to be great. I'm excited for LeBron to pretend he's really into this trade when it's clearly a flyer and if it doesn't work, they will be spinning that contract for whatever they can get because it's so much money. That'll be really fun. And then just watching this try to work

as a basketball thing will be really compelling. And as you pointed out, you tweeted this, this for the regular season makes a lot of sense. There's going to be regular season games when Russ looks incredible and be like, wow, oh my God. And it's like, yeah, because you beat Sacramento on a Tuesday night and nobody guarded anybody. So any other fun silver linings to this?

I actually want to stay off of the Sacramento thing into into healed because you also i think you bring up a good point here there's let me try to make these quick hitters but there's another lesson about these awful contracts and how quickly they're not awful all right like westbrook got traded twice now granted he got traded for the other guy who has the other awful contract but it's funny how quick this turns into like well hey you know westbrook in a year you're like okay he's an expiring i mean granted he's probably going to pick up that player option unless he thinks he can get a three-year or something out of this, right? The Wizards going from

wall to one-year Westbrook were actually successful based on their standards to now adding a bunch of pieces that feels a little bit more like a team for a team that had no depth, and then you hit on that pick, and then you're lucky enough that you have Beal that doesn't want to go nuclear option here, because every time you talk about the Beal thing it's like until

he gets really mad I think we're all speculating way too much about him wanting to get out and I also think there's some truth to maybe Beal sticking around long enough to hopefully get that five year extension so like now that the Washington part is like man just think about that like a year ago you're like what are we going to do with this John Wall deal right and that's

how quick things can turn around it's the all time sunk cost right and then on the Sacramento they gave away a first round pick do with this John Wall deal. Right. And that's how quick things can turn around. It's the all-time sunk cost. Right. And then on the Sacramento... So they gave away a first-round pick in the future, but they're getting one back. So they basically treaded water for a year with Russ. And made the playoffs. Made the playoffs. Kept Bill... Kind of staved off the Bill thing.

And I don't know. Those three guys have all been in playoff series and have produced at various times. They're all real rotation guys on a good team so i just think there's a lesson in there where as dire as it can look financially and you're capturing all this different stuff like this is actually kind of a win for the wizards because i don't really know what else would have been out there and also the lakers are dealing with desperation adding it but koc i want to pivot to you because your healed stuff like i don't know if this means they can still get him i don't know if this deal was there for healed i don't know if this means they can still get him. I don't know if this deal was there for Heald.

I don't know if it makes more sense because it's half as much. But your Heald article about his shooting, I was even kind of surprised to be reminded of how special it is, even though I think there's just opinions all over the place on him. Yeah, so with Buddy Heald, Lakers aren't out on getting him, as I said earlier. They could still work out a sign and trade, and there's some complications there with the timing. This go the the bogdan bogdanovich route where

there's a sign and trade for him to milwaukee and then that gets shut down you know because everything's leaking early that could happen yeah but with buddy heel like he shoots 44 percent on three pointers when he's moving like 43 percent on threes when he's standing still like the dude is an unbelievable shooter you know he's up there with like clay threes when he's standing still. The dude is an unbelievable shooter. He's up there with Clay Thompson, Seth Curry, Duncan Robinson. Statistically, he's not that level of guy. So it's like four guys in the last few years that are even at that level, and he's one of them.

Since 2016-17 when Buddy Heald entered the NBA, he's one of those four guys that has shot over 40% from three on over seven attempts per game. Heald, Robinsonal Robinson Curry Thompson. So ridiculous company for him to be in. And has the ability to just heat check win a playoff game. Russell, you know what he reminds me of? This analogy is just for you.

Jack the shot Foley? No, it's these Nordic track kind of signings. Remember when the Nordic track was a thing? And it was too expensive. And it filled this part of your room. It took up too much space. And, and anyone who got a Nordic track was eventually like, Oh man, I probably shouldn't have done that. But then it was nice to have a place to work out every once in a while, even though it was too expensive and it took too much time. The buddy

healed contract where it's like 24 million and just all you can see is the contract with him. He's still a really nice guy to have on your team, just not for 24 million. But if you can squeeze them in, like the Lakers are paying 121 million just for Westbrook, LeBron and Davis, according to Bobby Marks. At some point, money doesn't even matter anymore. And if they can somehow squeeze Buddy in with like a Taylor Horton Tucker sign and trade or whatever it takes. And he's this $24 million guy

who usually that guy's making like seven on a really good team or nine. That's a really good. I really want to see him in a playoff situation. I feel the same way about him as I did with Bogdanovich. I think he's a playoff player potentially. He'll can step up. I mean, like his defense has been bad.

A lot of shot creation has been bad in Sacramento and Kings fans understandably don't want him there. They would love to have traded him for Kuzma and Harrell in the 22nd pick. That worries me, though. Is that a red flag? I don't like when the fans, like, dislike a player. It makes me nervous.

But Kings fans are looking at it from a Kings fan perspective. The team's been losing. But Buddy Heald, in a winning context, where he's surrounded by good defenders where there's incentive where there's actual championship hopes maybe he can focus in a situation like that and and like he wouldn't have to create shots he would just have to be one of the best shooters in basketball which he is so i think buddy healed can be a successful player in a winning situation i'm a believer in him i was a believer when he was at oklahoma i mean

that guy's got spirit and intensity i think he just needs to be in the right situation. I'm a believer in him. I was a believer when he was at Oklahoma. I mean, that guy's got spirit and intensity. I think he just needs to be in the right situation for it all to manifest for him. With that said, taking him over Jamal Murray was probably the end

of the Anthony Davis era in New Orleans. I think that's kind of an under, and I didn't mind the pick, but if you think in retrospect, then you don't get Cousins. Yeah.

And with Cousins, they had some hope, at least, for a little while before he got hurt. For. Yeah. And with cousins, they had some hope at least for a little while before for three months, for three months. Yeah. Those four or five pick and rolls were a heck of a lot of fun to watch. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey before he rocked that Superbowl ring.

He rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. Can we talk about how all roads lead back to how terrible Sacramento is? Yet again, I think they're the pound for pound champ of like the most messed up team. Like last year, they gave away Bogdanovich for nothing. This year, the Buddy Hill trade leaks before. Now, who knows who leaks it?

The Lakers might have leaked it to put Washington pressure on. They had the ninth pick. Everyone loves this draft. They're the only team that seems completely discombobulated by having the ninth pick. There doesn't seem to be any plan. I don't know who's making the decisions. If I was a Kings fan, I'd be losing my mind.

Where do you have them ranked, Priscilla? They're last. They don't have the worst roster, but I continuously hear stuff about them where I thought all this stuff's over, and it's just not. I'm not going to get too into one of the stories I heard about their draft prep,

but I couldn't fucking believe the story. I'm not even sure if it's true, you know, so I'm not a hundred percent on it. So I'm not, that's why I'm not going to share it. I know it's probably pretty true, but it was just like, Hey, you've got the ninth pick. You got to do your work. You got to do your work. And, and, and it very well could be people under people that are doing their work to be fair and then it still doesn't really matter um because there might be too much influence from ownership still that has no reason to think they have any kind of track record whatsoever and the bogdanovich thing's inexcusable it's inexcusable and then it's the same shit this year it's like these teams that stink that chase

these like it's like they're running the mile and they're thrilled they're in first place after a lap. Like, it means anything. And they're chasing the playoffs, and it's like, look, you could have flipped Harrison Barnes for something. You know, you could have flipped Buddy Heald for something. They could have traded Bogdanovich for Kuzma last year. The Lakers wanted to do that, and they counted with Bielica for Kuzma. Ugh. It's tough so

you know i just i don't mind even asking you know you can ask ridiculous prices i mean there is that one today that people were saying more he was asking the warriors for 714 wiseman wiggins and two more firsts it's like all right go ahead ask whatever you want to ask for but with sacramento you can't always get them wrong and they always always seem to get him wrong. And I think back to your heel point, him in Sacramento having to create off the dribble is where he loses me a little. And that's for the frustration. It's great if you have a guy that can shoot at those historic numbers that can also handle and move around and then also get shots from other areas. With the Lakers, if it's right, he doesn't have to do any of that stuff, if they can still pull this off. But we'll see. But there'd be nothing more Sacramento than actually agreeing to a sign-in trade to bring back a more expensive Schroeder and get rid of Heald. Or Taylor Hilton Tucker.

Right. I don't know what that dude is. You could tell me he's going to be good with more money and more playing time, or you could tell me he's a preseason wonder. You can't see. Where do you stand on him? I'm a fan. I like Horton Tucker. Would you pay him $20 million a year? No. Okay.

No, I would not. Could be a solid player. I don't see greatness in him, but I think he can be a pretty solid player. What's the buzz around the league? Because Sacramento to me is a team that the other teams complain about. Like it's where it's just like, what's going on? It's a lot of what's going on over there,

conversations about them. And that's really been the case since we had Grantland when Vivek bought the team in 2012. This is 10 years of people going, what's going on over there? And then other teams just trying to trade with them because they're like the deer

that's falling behind the pack that the cheat is kind of like, oh, there's one. I got it. And the Kings are kind of the deer that's falling behind the pack that the, the cheat is kind of like, Oh, there, there's one. I got it. And the Kings are kind of the deer that's falling behind the pack every year. It's not like I hear people ripping Monty McNair or anything like that. I don't know if KOC,

if you feel that way, I think it's just a, I think it was so bad with Vivek early on and Vladi that they were like, okay, well now, you know, Vivek's going to hand over the reins. Vladi's not were like, okay, well, now, you know, Vivek's going to hand over the reins,

Vladi's not there anymore, be a little bit better, be a little better, and it just, it isn't, it isn't really any better. Yeah, the Bagley thing is unrecoverable.

Could it be getting better, though? They drafted Halliburton last year. True. We'll see what they do tonight. The Rashawn Holmes acquisition was smart. Yeah, I mean,

we'll see what happens. But in the middle of all that is they gave away Bogdanovich for zero. Yeah. So it's tight. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's a little better,

but who knows? Quickly, Ben Simmons. So you mentioned how Philly's asking for the moon. You know, Darryl's gone to every team and just asked for their best player.

Like he asked Boston for Tatum. What are you supposed to do? And you get that phone call. This is exactly like the Paul George stuff with Pritchard when he was still with the Pacers. He called every single team and was like, can I have your best player? Right.

Tatum for Simmons? What are your thoughts? No. My thoughts are no. He said, can I have your second best player? Well, maybe it's his strategy. It's like there's a new GM in your fantasy league. He knows Brad Stevens is a new GM

just trying to take advantage. Smart. I do the same thing in fantasy, but this is real life. I was thinking a Simmons-Beal trade is actually now more realistic with this move that Washington just made where you could have a team,

let's say it's Simmons and Beal, Philly throws in a pick or two and Max is in it. You could have a team of Simmons, Rui, Abdija, Kuzma, Harrell, KCP, Maxie, Gafford, Bertans, 15 and 22. It's not awful. There's stuff to work with. You could mold that into something. It's like a weird grocery shop trip where you got just a bunch of stuff and now you're like, all right, let's make dinner. Oh, you bought squash.

Cool. I could see Simmons going to Washington under some sort of whatever with that roster and they just build around Simmons and make him the guy. I didn't realize he had a trade kicker, by the way, until today. I had not heard that one. So it's four more't realize he had a trade kicker, by the way, until today. I had not heard that one.

So it's four more years fully guaranteed with a trade kicker, 146.7 million. But KFC does, does that make any sense to you? A deal with Beal and Simmons in it? It makes some sense for sure. But I think I'd rather give it a little bit of time with Bradley Beal, just because I think that's how special of a player he is.

And like what Woj tweeted earlier tonight how this is a deal that the Wizards are making with the intentions of building a better roster around Bradley Beal and I think you know that's probably partially to protect you know Wizards front office here that it is about you know building around Beal so if he ever does demand a trade it's like well we tried this isn't about rebuilding immediately but if Bradley Beal doesn't demand a trade I would like well we tried this isn't about rebuilding immediately but if bradley beal doesn't demand a trade i i would hang on to him into the season because i think you have a 30 point per game scorer man yeah that's legit and with ben simmons the questions about his game wouldn't go away in washington necessarily so if you're building around beal maybe you have him do more playmaking which he's shown he can do He's shown he's improved in those areas. Add another guy

in the backcourt. They're going to do some playmaking. Maybe they do that tonight with the 15th or the 22nd pick. This Wizards roster could look pretty compelling pretty soon with Bradley Beal as the face of the franchise. I'd hold off on a Ben Simmons deal if I'm Washington. Well, let's say the trade goes through

and they have 15 and 22 and we're picking those picks for them based on guys we like in the draft for silo pick 15 for them who's there is that duarte range or is he gone yeah no no duarte range might be gone to pick for them if golden state hangs on to both picks i think trey murphy i've heard his name connected to washington quite a bit how about mitchell yeah mitchell is who I was going to say. Mitchell could be there. Davion? Yeah. A lot of people connected him to the Pacers

a couple spots before. We're all talking about the same players in the same range, though, so none of this is shockingly surprising. It feels like a couple years ago Wizards had Garuba written all over him. Oh, yeah. It's Yad Mahimdi 2.0. He's a huge old-school Wizard who I actually kind of like.

I like him, too. I wouldn't mind that pick. And then 22, they could take Butler from Baylor as a point guard. Right? That's right around the Butler range. Cam Thomas, another guy that comes to mind if you're looking at guards. Not sure if the defense is enough with Beal, which is why Mitchell makes more sense. But there's going to be options for them, for sure.

Both that wing or at guard. Or use one of those picks to try to dump the Bertans contract. I mean, we should mention this team now has Rui, Abdija, Kuzma, KCP, and Bertans, who are basically all the same position. You know, you could play two of them

at the same time, I feel like. And they have five. I would be thrilled to see Berton's pitch about less shot attempts. Because that was, I mean, that guy, when he gets in, it's, I mean, he's playing one on five sometimes. It's going up.

Yeah, we'll see if he's in better shape. There's something on the Ben Simmons trade kicker. There's two things. I don't know. And I shouldn't go too deep in the weeds in this, but there's some clause, I think, that can void it if he's maxed or whatever. But I remember, and you can never underestimate the clutch clients in this, but when Anthony Davis was traded, he had a pretty sizable trade kicker

that was going to impact the cap space of the Lakers and all the other maneuverability. And someone on his side, his representative, was like, oh, he's's never waving that. Like that's free chunk. Then he waved it. So I was, I ended up getting it wrong because I was told by somebody that would be as informed as anyone that he wouldn't wave it. And then it was like, oh no, now he waved it. And then magically there was all this extra space. So that's something to pay attention to with Simmons, making a deal more feasible. And then he made $22 million to be in Space Jam. That I don't know.

That I don't know. Hey, we should talk about... Oh, there was a Rubio to Cleveland trade for Prince. That was weird. I don't know what Cleveland's doing. There was Detroit apparently closing in on Cape Cunningham, which we're going to find out when we have the draft. But I still don't know why they didn't

go backwards and try to get Mobley at three, but whatever. There's reddish is involved in trade rumors, which I don't fully understand considering I thought coming out of the playoffs, I was like, wow, they might actually have something with that guy. He's young. He's the

kind of ballsy three and D guy you need. And I think you think back to his draft guy. He's young. He's the, you know, kind of ballsy three and D guy you need. And I think you think back to his draft class, he was one of kind of the revered guys from that draft class. There was a lot of people on Twitter who played for the league, um, who were just kind of like, yep, Cam Reddish, that one game when he was awesome. Yep. Told you he's got it. Um, why would they trade him? KOC? What's going on there? Is he unhappy? What's the backstory?

As far as I know, it's nothing about his happiness or playing time or minutes like that. It's just about, my understanding, could be wrong here, is that Atlanta wants to reset that rookie skill contract. So they don't get killed all at once. Yeah, because they're going to have a lot of guys coming up. So it's about swapping that for somebody who's just going to be on the first year of their rookie contract. And whether they move up on the draft into the late lottery like a lot of teams are trying to do right now, or whether it's maybe even moving down and doing a bigger trade, they have a lot of options on the table.

Is there anything like you've heard about that, Ryan, that could make sense? That's exactly what it is. I mean, all you have to do is look at the schedule of payments here. He's a he's a club option after this at almost six million. I'm sure Cam probably wants out because Trey's turned into who he has. And Hunter's still, I think, somebody that's really important to their future and Herter's a shot maker. And then you have McDonavich. If you're Cam, you're like, I need to go somewhere to get numbers.

So you actually get the second contract. And even though I think Cam showed us some real nice signs of shooting and some defensive versatility, they are the ones that have been around him. So if they thought he was special, none of this shit would be happening this week. And now all you have to do is like, all right, let's slide him out for now. Somebody that we have four to slash five years of control with on a rookie deal that we can plug in there. That's a lot cheaper than getting into some sort of bidding war with the fifth most expensive guy depending on what happens with Collins so it's all about scheduling of money probably more so than it is who Cam is because I would agree that he showed some bright spots and I haven't always been I think there's I think we're all fans of

his talent I just don't know how consistent of a player he's ever going to be he wouldn't be over in that one game but that's awesome like Doc syndrome. That led to Byron Mullen signing with the Clippers that time because he had the one great game of his career against Doc. I was thinking with the Knicks with him because they have the 19 and 21. And if you could just turn 19 and 21 in a Cam Reddish, I feel like I would do that. If you could turn 19 in a future something in the Cam Reddish, even better. But I think he's talented and worth the gamble.

I'll be interested to see how that one plays out. I wish the Celtics had 16. That would have been a nice Celtic something for him. But I'm down with that. Do we ever hear Kyle Kuzma's name again? These guys that are in the mix, and it's almost like they're the ninth lead on Grey's Anatomy or something. And they're famous from that,

but then they're off that show and you just never think or hear from them again. Kuzma, there's so much Kuzma dissection in Lakers land and them honestly overvaluing how talented he was. I thought now he just goes to an obscure team and that could be a KFC. We'll never have another Kyle Kuzma conversation again. I mean, he's always going to have

some ex-Laker popularity, some celebrity popularity there. But as a player, boy, he better keep hustling on defense like he did this past season. He better. Or else, as a player, his stock is just going to plummet. I like him as... I just

thought part of the problem with him and the Lakers is him and LeBron and Davis all play the same position. And I never understood how that was going to plummet. I like him as, I just thought part of the problem with him and the Lakers is him and LeBron and Davis all play the same position and I never understood how that was going to work. So it was always like he was playing out of spot. I mean, he's talked about that inconsistent role. He says, I'm inconsistent, you know, in this inconsistent role, but he was inconsistent way back in college. So I think

that's just part of who he is as a player, but playing with Bradley Beal, I still think he can produce. He'll have some big nights. He'll have some frustrating nights. But he needs to continue defending for people to care about the basketball aspect. Popularity. Ex-Lakers are still popular. That is pretty funny, though, because I've run into it a few times.

Like when Brandon Ingram had a stretch before Zion took over where it was like, all right, we saw another level from Brandon Ingram. And then Lakers fans were still somehow protective of the idea that he was always that good. And you're like, how can you not see the difference between a guy that's way more comfortable now and the numbers back it up and everything else. And then it was like, how dare you? Like, how do you, why do you even care? Like, why do you, so it'll be kind of fun to see kind of this, this is, you know what

it's terrible for? It's terrible for Kuzma's watch game, his LA vibes, the Instagram thing. Like, I know DC is a very, very modern city, but some of these young guys moving out of LA, this is like their worst nightmare ever. Before we go, Shamit to the Suns for 29 and Javon Carter. Rossello, the Suns not intimidated by Shamit face at all. They praised it.

Not at all. They praised it. Not at all. Javon Carter actually was part of the rotation there for a little bit. I know. I kind of like him. I can't wait to say I kind of like him a hundred times tonight. Can we see some Bruce Brown, Javon Carter pick and roll? Yeah. Yeah. I see.

Shamit's really strange because there's times where you're like god I'd love a shamit I'd love one and then you're like wait I thought this guy made shots and then he doesn't and so it's like the idea of shamit right the idea of shamit seems amazing but then when you watch him you're like why doesn't this guy ever make an open shot it'd be like a golfer who like has great stretches of putting and then other times you're like why is he missing all of his putts last season um and I think that's what happens with him. But I still look Phoenix. The to do list is is a little bigger than Shamit right now.

I'd love to see a backup big that could actually play in a playoff rotation. And then that Sarver stuff with Chris Paul. Let me let me ask you this. Do you think Sarver goes, hey, look, great run. He turns 37. What's this imaginary $100 million extension that I'm supposed to give him if nobody else wants to give it to him?

But all Chris needs is one other team, and that could be New York. But Sarver couldn't even not say it out loud, which is what makes him Sarver. I think it's done. I think he's going back. I think it is. Three or four years.

I think it's a couple years. Can they do a thing where they add the extension to the current contract? Only two. Right. I think that's what it is. Yeah. So he gets all the money this year

and then it's like two years for 70 adding on to that. But I think it's been worked out. So I'm not sure why they haven't leaked that out yet, but my understanding is it's on its way to being worked out. I'm not sure why they haven't leaked that out yet, but my understanding is it's on its way to being worked out. Sarver can't. He went on the record two days

ago and said, I'm going to pay the luxury tax. He knows. You don't want to be a villain where you live. Yeah, but he still said other stuff. Yeah, but he still said other stuff that he didn't even have to say, which is so weird about it. He's a really weird guy, though. I mean, he's a top four weird owner. What were even have to say, which is so weird about it. Sorry to interrupt. He's a really weird guy, though. I mean, he's top four weird owner.

What were you going to say, KFC? Oh, no. I mean, I think there was a local Suns reporter who I think was Gambo, if I remember correctly. It was. Yeah, the radio show. And he said, well, the Suns are playing this by the book. They're going by the rules. They're not, you know, no tampering here. There was a local report saying that in regards to all the Chris Paul stuff.

Will they go here? Will they go there? It's kind of like a calm down Suns fan type of report. Last week, I think they went out there. It's fine. The question for me is Bridges. I think Chris comes back. But if you're paying Bridges too, now you're talking about a Lakers type payroll with Aiton,

Booker, Chris Paul, and Bridges. Bridges, I think his number starts with a 2 for a year, right? He's at least $20 million a year, but probably closer to $23, $24. Somebody would overpay that dude. So they either hometown discount it now, or they're going to have to... They might be in a similar situation like what Atlanta's in with Reddish, where as much as they love the guy, they have to trade him for future stuff.

Yeah, they might have to. And then you look at the Lakers who I think the starting payroll with the three players of Westbrook in this deal happens. They're at like 124, which will be 12 million more of the projected cap for three players, which also makes me ask this question. If the Paul deal doesn't get done with Phoenix, how does he fit in just

in a basketball sense of the Lakers for the taxpayer mid-level? So you're saying that might not happen? I'm starting to wonder if Magic Johnson knows he can't. So FYI, before we go, because we're going to go and we're going to come back for

the people listening. Part two of this podcast will be us kind of live watching the first few picks of the draft. But the Lakers, if this deal does go through, their team right now is LeBron Davis, Russ Westbrook, Mark Gasol, Alphonso McKinney, and then everyone else is a cap hold. So this could go a thousand different directions, and they have some sign and trade possibilities with Schroeder, with Caruso, with Horton Tucker potentially,

but for the most part, it's a blank slate. We'll see what happens. All right. Guys, next time I see you, the draft will be happening. This was fun, though. Russell Westbrook on the move again. Who knew? Uh, Kyle Creighton produced part one of this podcast.

We'll be back with part two in a little bit. I don't have a few years left in on the wayside on the first I never said I don't have a few years