The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draftapalooza, Part 2: Chris Paul to the Warriors! Whoa!!! With Kevin O’Connor and Tate Frazier

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O'Conor and Tate Frazier to react to the Warriors trading Jordan Poole and draft picks to the Wizards for Chris Paul, how Paul's veteran presence can impact the Warriors, evaluating the Wizards' offseason, speculation on the Hornets' decision with no. 2 overall pick, and more! Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kevin O'Connor and Tate Frazier Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, Chris Paul. Warriors? That's next. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sportsbook is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking,

I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way if you were wrong. You could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel like to catch your pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs in the next drive. They have so much stuff. It's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's

number one sports book. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called

Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights

are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey. And it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday night hockey

deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals, can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday night hockey. It's on Monday.'re all on Prime Prime Monday Night Hockey it's on Monday

it's on Prime we're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find The Mismatch with Kevin O'Connor you can find The Ringer NBA Draft Show

with Kevin O'Connor you can find Kevin O'Connor on part one of this podcast that we did late late last night after Marcus Smart

got traded to Memphis Porzingis to the Celtics Tyus Jones to the Wizards if you missed that go check it out. This is part two of Draftapalooza. Who knows how many parts we're going to have.

We're going to do this one. It's a quickie. It's about the Chris Paul trade to the Warriors. Later tonight, after pick 25, I'm so excited the Celtics have a pick. We're going to have at least that. So this will be either a three or a four part day. We'll see. Let's bring in Pearl Jam.

All right. KOC. Russo and I talked about this trade on, I think, Sunday Night's Podcast or maybe a week before about Jordan Poole for Chris Paul. Could Chris Paul work on the Warriors? And I was pro. Russo was against.

He thought too much movement. Chris is a pick-and-roll guy. He's a little more old school. How does he fit in? And somehow the trade ended up happening. I think I willed it to happen. I think I now have the power to make fake trades on this podcast to

actually transform them into real life. I'm very excited about myself. Trade machine Picasso coming to life. People are listening. In all seriousness, what did you think? For the Warriors, I view it in two different ways. Chris Paul raises the collective IQ of the team. I mean, like going from Jordan Poole to Chris Paul, it's an upgrade in that sense,

providing more playmaking in ways that Jordan Poole couldn't provide off the bench behind Stephen Curry. And I think it's also insurance for Draymond Green. If Draymond were to leave in some type of sign-and-trade scenario to Dallas or Phoenix or whoever it might be for the Warriors you could have Chris Paul kind of absorbing that you know guy who's bringing the ball up the floor more often granted like they're different types of players they're different sizes

they're not anywhere in the same universe on defense but offensively I think you could see Paul more in that Draymond role however I'd expect Draymond to be back and then they'll go those guys are going to have to learn how to operate together, which leads to those Russillo concerns. How does Chris Paul adapt? Does Steve Kerr adapt the offense? Or are we going to see Chris Paul taking more spot-up threes than he ever has in his entire career? Is he going to adapt as a mover without the ball? Those are questions that I think are going to come after we find out about Draymond,

but I'm intrigued overall for Golden State. It's an upgrade. One thing about Chris Paul, way more malleable than you would think. If you look back at his career history, this is now another trade for him. I think this is the sixth time he's been traded. That's amazing for a Hall of Famer. And not counting the crazy Laker trade, right? With Gasol and Lamar Odom and all that stuff that happened. Is that the most times a future Hall of Famer has been traded in their career? I mean, it's got to be up there. That's a good one to research.

Six is pretty high. That's a lot. You're talking about even guys like Bob McAdoo who got basically released by the Nets. I don't even think he got traded six times. But one thing with Chris, so you get through the New Orleans stretch of his career, the Lakers straight on the side,akers then he goes to the Clippers

and it's you know pick and roll with him and Blake and him and DeAndre but then he has that weird Houston stretch right

where he's playing kind of dueling banjoes a little bit with Harden but he's off the ball way more than we ever thought and that team won 65 games it kind of worked

to some degree then he goes to OKC and they have basically their crunch time lineup was him with Schroeder and SGA. And we're like, Whoa, this is weird. And that's what you're going to be looking at if you're the warrior saying, okay, we can make this work. Right. So then he goes to Phoenix. He's back to a more traditional role. Then all of a sudden KD shows up and now

he's a little off the ball more. So I, I think he's more malleable than maybe he gets credit for. The reason I liked it is just, you need him for four months. You need him in March, April, May, June. I don't even care about the first part of the season. They have plenty of rookies and people, but we haven't seen a lot of guys, a lot of like point guard initiator people with Curry, basically his whole career. Monte Ellis wasn't like that. Livingston was, but Livingston, they caught him at a different point of his career. And that Iguodala was really important that he could do stuff where he could initiate the thing.

They could run plays through him. And then Draymond, obviously. Other than that, like Poole always to me was like a shoot first guard who, if he had the ball over midcourt, it might be going up. I don't feel like he made like Curry better cp might actually make curry a little bit better that's gonna be so fascinating to watch right yeah i mean i'm excited there like i think that's what they hoped jordan pool would be able to develop and he just never did but now with chris paul like you have a guy who like yeah i mean i think ryan's right that he's gonna have to adapt more than ever like more

than he did with oklahoma city thunder with this type of system for the Warriors. But it is going to be fascinating to see just how Steve Kerr utilizes Chris Paul on this offense because he is somebody that, like, he likes to slow it down. And for the Warriors, they like to play quicker. They like to play faster. But the fact they have now this tool that they can turn to and say, we can play any way we want to with Chris Paul. I think that type of flexibility that they're

going to have on offense, it does add a new wrinkle for Stephen Curry as well, where you have this magnificent playmaker who can find you exactly where you want it with the ball. Granted, for Steph, his bullseye is wide. You don't need to give him a perfect pass for him to have a high percentage shot. But I just think for Chris Paul in this role, I think for him it's going to also raise questions about Draymond, though, assuming he's back. Because now you're in a position where Draymond once had to have the ball in his hands less when Kevin Durant was added. KD was more of a mover off ball, more of a scorer off ball. You can use him off pin down screens. A mini isolation guy. Yeah, for sure. And now with Chris Paul, he's not going to be moving that much, I don't think.

So is he going to be playing even fewer minutes? Maybe Chris Paul is a 25-minute guy. That's always possible too. How about 20? He could be a 20-minute guy. He's in the 05 draft. Maybe that's what you want from him, is you get more out of Chris Paul, and he's not playing as many minutes. So I don't know what Steve Kerr is going to do, but it's a really fascinating deal. I don't think we could have ever imagined

Chris Paul going from hated Warriors rival to now. Oh, yeah. We got to talk about all that stuff. Quickly, on the basketball side of things, it's clear that they had this chasm between the adults and the guys who had already won and then the young kids

who were ready to play. And I think they really underestimated what kind of chasm that would be where you have guys, not just Poole, but Kaminga and Moody and Wiseman before they traded him. Guys who were like, I'm young.

I want to play basketball. And I'm psyched that we won the title last year, but that was last year. Now, am I going to get to play? And my sense, you know, with feeling around the situation from the Warriors side was like, we need more adults. We need hoops IQ people. So Wiseman goes, why does Wiseman go? Even though everyone agrees he has a lot of talent, because it's a hoops IQ. Hoops Wiseman goes, why does Wiseman go? Even though everyone agrees there's a lot of talent

because it's a hoops IQ. Hoops IQ is a little low, right? They're bringing Peyton, somebody who fits in. Chris, from a hoops IQ standpoint, now you have him, you have Draymond, you have Clay, you have Looney, you have Peyton, you have Curry. Smart team. Seven guys.

Now it's like, can you work in the fringes and get one more veteran free agent? And now you're kind of back to your identity of the Hoops IQ team. I think Chris, one of the things I was thinking was like his signature shot, that little, you know, sent me a pick. I'm going to wear it. All of a sudden I'm at the foul on top of the key and I hit that little thing. It's a little easier to get that one off when Curry and Klay are doing circles and the defense

is so terrified of where Curry's going. And now I have all this space. Like that was one thing with that team. That's that space around the foul line was always wide open, right? That was where they just gave Draymond basically like, Hey man, knock yourself out. We're going to give you whatever you want. I don't think you can do that with Chris. Cause that's his area.

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's why I like, I think there could be overlap with Draymond. Like Draymond. Like Dray, Draymond is going to have to now take a backseat as well. Cause of Chris Paul's better in those situations where he gets the ball on that area of the floor, he is such a much more dynamic threat still to pass, but also to handle and pull up and make a defense pay with a shot that he hits, you know, 45 plus percent, or even with the wide open, you know, for that could be 50 plus percent this coming season he's had years like that so i i think with them you're gonna see chris paul in that draymond

type of role and then it's on draymond to adapt probably more so than chris paul uh in actuality and jesus that'll go great i'm just looking at his minutes as you're talking if draymond returns though i mean i think i think with them like like the Warriors are going to have to pay. I think there are going to be teams that offer a lot in sign and trades. Well, the pool being out of this, I think, solves one piece of this. For sure. Because it was clear.

Expiring. It was clear that couldn't come back. I was just extremely dubious that both of those guys were coming back again. Absolutely. And now that the fact that pool and Draymond are broken up, you can feel better about Chris Paul being on an expiring deal. If you pay Draymond Green and you just let Chris Paul go next year or you sign him on a value contract to the latter stage of his career,

then it makes much more sense financially for you than with Jordan Poole being part of that equation. I wonder, you mentioned, though, how like that kind of, you know, the friction between the young guys and the older guys, are they done, though? Like could Kaminga and 19 still be packaged together as we talk now this afternoon? I don't think they're done.

And if Curry would never come public, anything with him. Same with Kerr. But I think there was a window that I think everybody in that organization feels like they lost a year last year could they beat in Denver I don't know I think Denver beats everybody last year but if you're them it's like we have Curry he's this transcendent guy and you know we didn't put a good enough team around him and better than ever really Chris Paul in 2015 was 35 minutes a game and that dropped to basically the 32 range incredibly for the rest of his career even the last two Phoenix years he was 32.9 and 32

and it felt like each year was the car really started with Houston in 2018 they put a lot of miles on him especially in the playoffs and he finally broke down at the worst possible time in the Warriors series. If he's playing, you know, let's say he plays 60 games and he's playing 22 minutes a game in the regular season. And you're just like, Hey, Chris, you're going to come in with three minutes left in the first quarter. Give us nine to 10 minutes. Same thing in the fourth quarter, nine to ten minutes same thing in the fourth quarter nine and ten minutes

probably not going to play with Steph that much unless there's crunch time situations for us you're going to run our second offense and we just want to get you to the spring that's he fucking his lottery if that happens bomb him I don't want to play what what like what records is he going for you know like maybe there's like some assist stuff he can climb, but for the most part, this guy just wants to win the title. He hasn't even been in the finals. Yeah, I think for Chris Paul, that's probably a blessing to go to the Warriors in that sense. That's how I feel.

He's playing with a bunch of smart dudes. He's with Curry, a guy that he's battled over the years, but you're still, if you look at over the years with Chris, he was with Blake in, uh, in those Clipper years where Blake, there was a stretch there where he was one of the best five players in the league. Right. So we had that, he had James Harden. He got to play with when James was at his MVP, 35 points per game guy, elite efficiency. He got to play with Booker and Durant. He got to play with a young Shea Gilgis Alexander. He's had a way of floating around. There's still this amazing

what-if with his career, though, where if that Lakers deal just goes through and he's with it's basically like Kobe and I don't remember who else was on that team, but it was Kobe starting to hit a different point of his career. I actually think it was good

that that deal didn't happen for Chris. You know, maybe it wasn't good for the Lakers, but he goes to the Clippers and came really close a bunch of times. Now he's on a team that I would say, what do you have him, second or third? Well, Denver's one. Phoenix is two. Can you put Phoenix two?

We don't know who's on their team. We don't know what their roster is going to look like yet. I think we could put the Warriors in it too now. I think that's fair. The other team, I think maybe they're 2A and the Lakers are 2B because we don't know who the Lakers are getting. Right now we're taping this. It is 2-0-5.

Where do the Lakers stack up in this as well? Should we give the Kings more respect in year two? Well, if they're losing, we don't know if Barnes is coming back. With the Lakers, we're taping this a couple hours before the draft. We don't know if they're going to take 17 and package it up. So, yeah, I think Kings are in there, and then Grizzlies probably have one more move to make too, but they're going to be really dinged by the Joss suspension.

And we saw in the standings this past season, if they're a few games worse because of the 25 games without Jaws, that means they're in the play-in conversation potentially, rather than home court advantage. So it's Denver unquestionably won. Yeah, I think that's very fair. And then that two spot between Phoenix

and Golden State and the Lakers and maybe Sacramento, depending what they do. And then who knows with Memphis. How about the Clippers? Do they deserve that respect at all? No, just throwing them out there. No respect. And I might spit on the table.

Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite. Man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium.

It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like.

90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research.

And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe.

Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly, so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming.

See, safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. me because safety is learned it's learned okay give it up give what up really really really oh

this message is brought to you by metro links all right come back tay frazier joined us he'll be on the uh little draft pod we're doing tonight what was your immediate reaction to chris paul you've always liked chris paul yeah north carolina guy wake forest guy um you know his book is selling right now this is not a promo for his book but the story of 61, the points that he scored for his grandpa, one of the greatest like North Carolina basketball stories around. And I think this is a tale as old as time. If you can't beat them, join them. So there you go. Well, unfortunately for you, he's joining Steph Curry. Your dream in life was the Steph Curry thing to just completely flame out. We're just kicking the can down the road. Steph Curry at 40 comes home to the Hornets.

Well, here's the thing. And we don't know because the draft odds, by the time people hear this, we'll probably know who's going number two. But the draft odds with Scoot, one of the craziest things we've ever seen. He's plus 160 this weekend. It starts shifting.

All of a sudden, he's favored. Then Woj does a tweet, I think two days ago. Boom, it flips again. Miller's like minus 400 then today all of a sudden Scoot's minus 400 and listen

and we'll talk about this more tonight but I just think you have to take Scoot I think he has the most value but it made me think like long term is that your Curry trade

maybe if the Warriors rebuild Curry goes home I feel like Lomelo is Scoot Lomelo for Curry is to trade right I mean the Warriors can't do that home. I feel like Lomelo is... KFC's smiling. Lomelo for Curry is to trade, right? The Warriors can't do that, though, because they passed on Lomelo.

They can never admit defeat. They're right, they're wrong. That's what it is. Let's talk about the Washington piece of this quick. Jordan Poole to the Wizards. Tyus Jones yesterday to the Wizards. Kuzma, do we think he comes back? There's a chance. What's the market for him?

I don't think it's as strong as that report saying he hopes for 30-plus million per year. It's not that strong. No. So it's a matter of, like, I think for some of these teams that have cap space, like Utah, San Antonio, Houston, people around the league are wondering who's going to make the Austin Reeves offer sheet, who's going to make the Kyle Kuzma offer. And so far, it seems like I'm not hearing a like... We have Reeves over Kuzma, right? I'm not hearing a lot about Reeves right now. That's pretty quiet. So unless a team comes out of nowhere with an

offer there, maybe Kuzma's the guy they go for. Reeves is like four years younger, though. That's the thing I'm confused about because Kuzma's in his late 20s. Maybe teams feel like the Lakers are just matching anything. Why do I want to waste my time on July 1st? They're just going to match it. That is part of it. I go the other way, Tate, because I'm a spiteful guy.

Yeah. $105 million offer. Yeah. Match it. If I'm a Western contender, I'm like, hey, man. Yeah. Match it or not.

I want to wound the Lakers. Pay $99 million for us. Do what the Pacers did, right? With Aiton last year. Give him the offer. And that was one of the first times they've given a restricted free agent that kind of offer. And they said, okay, if you want him, pay for us. Do what the Pacers did, right? With Aiton last year. Give him the offer. And that was one of the first times they've given a restricted free agent that kind of offer. And they said, okay, if you want him, pay for him. And he

actually got a favor from the Pacers. Russell and I talk about this all the time because we're just naturally opposed on this topic. He says, no, you got to do favor. And he's right. And I'm sure you've heard the same, KOC, where teams are like, no, you got to play the game. You got to do right by the agents. I just don't feel like it ever gets paid back if you're the team it never does get

paid back you go to the agency hey man remember two years ago and it was like yeah fuck you pay me more money when does it ever get paid back so i don't i would just always be in like competitive fuck everybody else over mode and austin reef's thing's a perfect example if i had the cat if i'm sacramento i was like, fuck it. San Antonio or Houston? Yeah, San Antonio. The Spurs are the team that I think about most. And he'd be good on San Antonio.

Perfect. Pair him with Wimby and Devin Vassell, Kelton Johnson. I'd love Austin Reeves on the Spurs. Well, if I had said anyone else with the Wizards was running the Wizards, I would say they're going to fucking pay him $125 for free. Some men in the house will complain about it. But this new regime actually seems to be approaching this correctly the way we would if we were running a team,

where it's like, yeah, we're not good. Let's suck this year. Let's try to get assets from other teams. Let's take bad contracts. Keep them coming this way. I don't think they'll overpay kuzma is my point i don't think they'll overpay him and maybe they sign up to like a fair value deal like a three over 80 something along those lines or like a 370 where it's like 25 22 and then the declining

maybe there's a non-guarantee on the third or the fourth year something along those lines i think for washington that's one of the reasons why they wanted that Landry Schammett contract because there's the team option. It's a flexible piece that they could deal in any type of situation. It could be taking on big money contracts. It could be in a deal where they're giving up more assets to get a good quality player for a team that doesn't want to take on money. So if Kuzma has that on his back end, I'd expect them to kind of target deals like that.

Maybe if they re-sign Tyus Jones after this season, it could be a similar type of situation. Or they trade him in February. That could happen too, because he's going to be a sought-after point guard. Like Jordan Poole, last year your teammate punched you in the face. This year, 25 shots a game. Knock yourself out. He's going to win most of the players. We don't care about wins or losses.

He's literally already unfollowed Draymond. I mean, literally as soon as that happened, that was already reported. I guess people were already looking at his follows. He says, I'm out of here. I'm not following this guy. Yeah. I mean, wow. It's so funny.

Someone punches you in the face. I mean, it's a fair move. It's so funny when this stuff happens. And I remember for me, like, especially in the podcast, because it's different than writing, because you can, there's a little more nuance that you can describe stuff. But I remember talking about the Clippers

during the Blake CP3 era and just finding out different ways to basically say yeah this thing doesn't really like each other and then i would get this huge pushback why is he saying that what's your agenda against the clippers and just like third parties and then the moment it all blew up everyone was like yeah we all hated each other and it was like the durant dream on thing it's like no no it's fine no no they worked it out and then right after it happens katie's on a podcast it was like yeah it was never the same it got totally fucked up and the dream on pool thing is like another example that right no no it's fine we're moving past it's like you didn't move past it at all which is fair if you punch koc right now we'd be like man we gotta figure this

out it would always be weird between us. It would. We would get past it. We'd still do our shows. But it was like, take us to grab a water and you're like flinching backwards. There's also like the college rivalry part of it too. Michigan, Michigan State. Like there's just a lot of contrasting things there with those two guys. And there's like a finesse versus like a force aspect of it.

You know what I mean? And also Jordan Poole took his money. In Draymond's mind, he's like, you took my contract. And now he ships them out and he gets that money. You took my contract and then they leaked the video and nobody was ever caught. Did we ever find anything out about that? How it leaked? I'm obsessed with this topic.

Ever since Verno mentioned this a couple of days ago. I was actually asking a couple of different people I knew. I was like, what are the odds that a team wouldn't know how that video got out? And they're like, low. Just flat out low. There's only so many people in the room. Wait, Kyle, is your mic on? Oh, forget it. I was going to ask Kyle.

Kyle, you're the only person in the room probably who's... You've been in fights. You've been probably punched. Were you able to forgive people who punched you? One guy tried to punch me. My friend, he hit somebody else i never forgot that yeah so there you go kyle never forgot the one time his friend punched him um cp and curry together can we go over the history like the warriors fans hate cp yes and this goes back to the clippers warrior series a million years ago when 2015 was the year yeah it was like the clippers finally are going to get over the hump you know the the warriors

are going to have to wait for the clippers kind of like michael jordan and the bad boy pistons you know it's like it's still isaiah's time it's still chris paul's time with the donald sterling thing right and then curry just kind of jumped him in the line. And, you know, CP3, no matter what he says, I mean, he went from very friendly, I want to mentor you, to no, we're rivals. He's not friendly. Yeah. Doc and I talked about this when he came on the pod

a couple weeks ago about how Chris Paul in Game 7, which I went to, just completely manhandled Curry from the moment, the opening tap, and the refs kind of had to decide right away what they were calling. And, you know, it's the classic PJ Tucker move where it's like, ah, all right, I let that go. And then it's like, well, I let that go.

And Chris Paul's just like clotheslining him and clubbing him. And Curry fought through it, but it was so much fun to watch him go at it. And it did feel like a moment where CP's like, no, I'm the fucking guy. I'm the point guard. Who are you? and then over the

years the warriors beat them every time and now he's joining the warriors is he gonna take shit like kd did i think probably not i don't think so and i think also the warriors fans probably will fall in love with them because chris paul and stephen curry have such a you know long history with each other that they're gonna be so nice to each other now. And I think this is the greatest PR move of Chris Paul's career. I really do. I think going to the Warriors, playing beside, you know, Steph Curry, showing that he can defer to another point guard, also letting Steph Curry kind of evolve and be off the ball and still be a shooting guard at times. It makes them versatile. And we talked about Draymond initiating the offense. Guess who can initiate the offense? Chris Paul. I mean, that's the interesting part

to me. What does Draymond do now that Chris Paul takes away some of that responsibility from him? He's going to have to adapt. Assuming he's back, we just don't know how yet. Draymond, is he going to be corner three-point shooter at 22%? I don't think so. Yeah, I just don't see that. I know. I wonder what Steve Kerr is thinking about right now from a philosophical perspective. How do we make these guys work together, Draymond and CP? For him, it's much easier than making it work with 19 and 20 and 20-year-old guys.

He's like, this is an adult that I can talk to and explain shit to. Because Chris is, you know, he's a little spiteful. He's kind of a dick, which I think is one of the things we love about him. Even after he got traded, he went out of his way very intentionally to mention Isaiah Thomas over and over again,

who doesn't work for the Suns. And he's like, I think Ishby and Isaiah, Ishby and Isaiah, like all that was like purposeful. He said it everywhere, every interview. Every single interview. Yeah, Good Morning America too. Like this is national TV. This is like your, you know, wives and moms at home

are like, oh, Isaiah Thomas is with the Suns? You know, everybody knows. Guess who didn't like Chris Paul? Isaiah Thomas. Sometimes you don't like who you are. You're very similar, right? Isaiah Thomas was the best pure point guard of all time, and I still feel that way. He's still my number one pick.

But then Chris Paul comes in, and it's like, no, Chris Paul's the point guard. He's the best point guard ever. And Isaiah Thomas is still competitive. He's probably like 60 at this point. So you think the Suns move and hit was a little political too. Well, I think partly political and partly let's get our own guys in here. He can't stay healthy. He's broken down.

I mean, you could make the case against Chris pretty quick. It's an upgrade. He breaks down every single year. Bradley Beal fits in better. We'll figure out the point guard thing. But the reason I mention this is because chris is a little spiteful at some point he'll give the interview about warriors culture to your point about embracing stuff this is what a great organization this is this is the classiest organization you know i was on new orleans when we were almost getting sold he's gonna call lake

of joe he's gonna be like jo Joe's been honest with me from day one. I've never had an older like Joe. Exactly. He's light years ahead. Yeah, he went from that crazy New Orleans thing. Yeah, light years ahead. Oh, no. He had Donald Sterling.

He had Balmer who then basically he got the fuck out of there. He had Fertitta and Houston, that whole situation. OKC, he was barely there. Then goes to Phoenix. he has Sarver. And then Ishbia, I don't know. Seems like he kind of blindsided him. So now it goes to where it's like, this is great. Finally, a classy.

And then it's like just insulting everybody who's ever played. But I vote for that, Chris Paul. Is this his last stop? Probably not. I think he's going to keep going. Well, how many teams was jason kidd on ultimately like he was on the knicks was it was there a stop after the knicks i mean he was he was everywhere i mean i think there's a world in which chris paul ends up back in charlotte at some point like uh

on a tony parker that would be fun you know what i mean where he just is close to home just makes it work for one year maybe two years maybe tries to mentor a younger guy the thing that i'm concerned about when it comes to pho Ishbia. If it is Isaiah, if Chris Paul is right, and he's saying Isaiah is involved, this would be like if I worked for Michael Jordan, right? Because it seems like Ishbia grew up a fan of Isaiah Thomas. It would be hard for me to not agree with everything Michael Jordan said. I would say, great point, Michael. Let's do that, Michael. Are we worried that there might be a little bit of that? I don't like your idea, Michael. Yeah, you're not saying that. You worried that there might be a little bit of that? I don't like your idea, Michael.

Yeah, you're not saying that. You're not saying that to a guy that you looked up to as an idol as a kid. Yeah, Mike was like, where do you want to go to lunch? Mike was like, I'd like sandwiches. Great point, Michael. Oh, man, I love sandwiches. I was just thinking how much I wanted a sandwich. But isn't he involved? Isn't that –

Ishbia? No, no. Isaiah Thomas is at least someone that Ishbia talks with and has conversations with. That's what I'm worried about. He is involved. That's factual that he's involved. He's way more than involved.

I think he's like a conciliar. And if he's Geppetto and he knows that Pinocchio is going to say what he wants him to say and do what he wants him to do, that's a very powerful spot to be in, especially if Isaiah is his idol, as most people have said he is. That's a very powerful spot to be in, especially if, if Isaiah is his idol,

as most people have said, he is. Well, Isaiah is also, he's, we have proof of him with the Knicks. Like he doesn't care about future. Like he traded two unprotected picks for Eddie Curry.

We have more proof right now with what they're doing. Well, we found out today and we didn't talk about this the other day, cause we didn't know, but they announced the official trade and it was pick swaps with Washington Phoenix for 24, 26, 28, 30. I assume they were unprotected. So now not only do they have no picks, but even the picks they have will be the worst version of the picks. It's not going to hurt them next year. They're going to be better than Washington.

Might not hurt them in 26, but once you get to 28 and 30, so thatal trade, that wasn't just, oh my God, what a hijacking. We stole Chris Paul, or we stole Bradley Beal for Chris Paul and whatever. It's like those, those swaps aren't nothing, KOC.

Yeah, they're not, they're not nothing, especially in the later years, 28 and 30. Like the Celtics did one for Derek White and I was like,

oh, Jesus. And now that, like with that one, that's Wemba Nyama in 2028 where it's like oh my god he's gonna be like the fucking best player in the league in 2028 but you're all in right now i'm all in right you're all in i'm not four swaps all in though well yeah you are like you have

kevin durant and devin booker and you're upgrading would you have traded basically eight first round picks plus mikhail bridges and cam johnson for bradley bill and kevin durant that's insane nobody should want to do that no i wouldn't have no i wouldn't have um well you wouldn't do that right tate absolutely not but i mean is it sacrilegious to say that i like what washington is doing i really do no not at all of course i think we're all in your guy on the team right now and i like dinny and then you bring in Tyus Jones, and let's say hypothetically. I think they're on a first-name basis with him. I mean, he's a star.

You're like Doris Burke. He's like, they've got Denny. They've got Corey. Well, you bring in Anthony. Let's say, for example, you bring in like an Anthony Black. You put him next to a Tyus Jones, who can be a primary ball handler at some point in his career, Anthony Black, but he learns from Tyus Jones.

He can play off the ball to start his career. I like the the youth movement of washington so i mean as much as phoenix is all in i like the future of washington it's complete opposites like washington is all in on the youth movement and phoenix is all in on competing for right now so they're not even worried about 28 and 30 with what happens there i think you know why because they have a new owner who doesn't realize how much it's going to suck in 2028 when he has no players left. Devin Booker's like, get the fuck out of here. It is also hard to judge, though, what the Suns are right now

without knowing what they're actually going to do this offseason. Right. I mean, it's very difficult to assess the roster. Well, we know they don't care about second apron. Our guy Windhorse reported that, where he's just like, we're going to go over. We might as well completely obliterate it.

What do we care? The penalty's the same. I don't know if I agree with that logic, but at going to go over. We might as well completely obliterate it. What do we care? The penalty is the same. I don't know if I agree with that logic, but at least it's logical. Like, okay, I get it. You might as well completely annihilate it. So I just don't think it's going to work. I mean, I didn't even know some of these things where if you're over it three straight years, your first round pick just goes to the bottom.

Yeah. So maybe that's why they did the swap. Because if you go over the, whatever the three straight years, the wizard's like, fuck, we're doing it over. Oh my God. Forgot about the apron roll.

I mean, now you have me wondering though, I wonder if there's language in there where like if another team owns the right to the pick, it doesn't go to the back. They're probably like adding that in right now. Yeah, I wonder. Because that's something I'm unsure of. We didn't think about this. pick it doesn't go to the back they're probably like adding that in yeah i wonder because that because that's something i'm unsure it's it's gonna be amazing to see what they actually end up doing though because they still

have deandre ayton are they gonna keep him are they gonna move him into like a group of wings and forwards so you think so then they if theyiton, that means they go with Jock Landale, bring back Bismack Biambo, go cheap at center. But what do they get for Aiton? What's the real value of DA right now? He struggled last year. Ever since getting the contract, there's been concern about how much does he actually care effort-wise?

Is he going to want to prove it in a new organization, chip on his shoulder? He feels like OKC waiting to happen to me. San Antonio next to Wembley, something like that. Oh, interesting. Not against that. Yeah, that one, so that we have the Aiton piece, we don't know what's happening.

And then we have this Portland piece today that's going to unfold in a couple hours. And we should probably go soon. But who do you want them to take? Just let's go on the record right now. It is now 225. From day one, the Hornets have told everybody, you know, myself, Kevin O'Connor,

that is Brandon Miller, right? That is going to be the pick. But I think that that was all because they thought they want Portland. They want Portland. Yeah, right. They want to pull a Danny Ainge where it's like, oh, you guys really love Markel Fultz.

Yeah. Well, trade us for him, right? But we actually like this other guy, Jason Tatum. But in this case, I think they love Scoot. I think they will take Scoot. I'll be excited about Scoot. And Scoot fits next to Lomelo. It makes a lot of sense.

Lomelo doesn't want to have to do the dirty work of getting downhill. Scoot can do it, right? Scoot can score in the mid-range. Scoot can have pull-up jumpers. And guess what LaMelo can do? Play the two, spot up, hit threes. It makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think either of them are perfect fits with LaMelo

because with Brandon Miller, yes, you have the shooting and the spacing and the versatility with two big primary playmakers, but you don't have the guys who get to the basket. But then with Scoot Henderson, you have a 6'2 guard. You don't have the defense. You have an iffy shooter don't know what scoot's gonna actually end up being are you downing scoot's defense big time scoot is a fucking logan roy alpha dog but he's gonna come in and tell everyone to fuck off and start throwing throwing water around you see the

interviews with him he's i i said he was 28 i actually think he's 38 yeah what is his deal you sent that picture to us today he's got his body that it's like what the hell is going on but he's 19 he's still six foot two fine and lamello is not how tall is donovan mitchell is he six two and a half something like that but he's also supported by jared allen and evan mobley westbrook was six three yeah the best the best thing that I saw about Scoot is that his mom had to bring his birth certificate to his games. That is the best fact I've ever heard in my entire life. You know what I mean?

I heard that fact, and I'm like, get Brandon Miller off my board. I want that guy. That's such a good anecdote. 10 playing with 14-year-olds, 14 playing with 17-year-olds, 17 playing with 20-year-olds that are pros. I just like Scoot. Scoot has an it factor about them. Yeah.

And I think they need the it factor more than anybody. Well, and that's the argument in favor of him for Charlotte as well. Cause with Miller and LaMelo, you wouldn't have necessarily that, that leader, that guy to grow into a leader. You'd have kind of two more,

you know, two islands, chill guys who just do their own thing. This is NFL. This is wherever no no they're gonna take a defensive tackle

second and meanwhile everyone wants a quarterback and then eventually what happens the quarterback goes in the spot

because the quarterback always has the most value and that's what Scoot is Scoot's it factor has more value than Brandon Miller with these red flags around him

I thought the point that you made on one of the 20 podcasts you were on this week was about how there's basically... I was on Dave Chang this week, too. You're all over the place. It's one of those weird NBA drafts where there's

three guys who would be a number one in a lot of other years. Because normally we'll have a year like the Wiseman-Lamelo year where it's like somebody's got to go first. Who do you like? This year, all of these guys I think would have gone first. Probably in other drafts, right?

I mean, I think it's a great top of the draft. Not to mention the Thompson twins, Ahman and Asar. I think both of them are insanely talented, too. I like the top of this draft for Charlotte. Neither of them are perfect fits, but they're both good fits. And I think with Scoot... I can tell who Tate wants. Oh, I won't Scoot.

Well, I think with Scoot, that is the very... Miss Cupcheck won't Scoot. When are you too old to wear a jersey? I think now. I'm 30. I think with Scoot, I could tell who Tate wants. Oh, I won't Scoot. Well, I think with Scoot, that is the very- Miss Cupcake won't Scoot. When are you too old to wear a jersey? I think now. I'm 30. I think it's over. Kyle, what's the ruling on that?

I think it's over. Kyle says no. Every day. Yeah. I don't think that's going to work. You ever seen Kyle Happier? He just got married. You're back.

Yeah. Like, look at him. He's so peaceful. Monogamy is back. He looks like Hank's- This is the best thing to happen to marriage in a long time he looks like

hanks at the end of castaway he's just like like looking at the different roads and then just like he's completely peaceful it's like a wiser kyle i don't understand it kyle um wait before we go quickly to we because we talked to celtics last night um we found out since then it's been kind of floated out there reported that smart smart was blindsided, which I thought was really interesting. And I think you and I have, you know, talked to some different people. It really seemed like part of this trade was they wanted to turn this team over to Tatum and Brown and smart was such a forceful personality in, in, in almost entirely good way, but he'd been there from the beginning. He felt like it was his team. It was those three guys. And I think they,

the feeling seems to be like we needed to change the energy a little bit with the team, not to mention all the Porzingis stuff that comes in and Horford getting older, all this stuff we talked about yesterday. But I thought that was an interesting wrinkle to that. And it's a pretty great, what if with the Clippers,

because I, there's all kinds of different things about Brogdon right now, but it seems like the Clippers just couldn't all kinds of different things about Brogdon right now, but it seems like the Clippers just couldn't get a physical in time. It was like one of like, they had to basically get the trade done by midnight. They couldn't get a physical situation that they felt comfortable enough with. So they were like, fuck it, we're out. We don't know about his arm, but then the reports are he might actually be back for the season. So I don't know. I just feel like this kind of sometimes things work out for a reason

and sometimes they don't in sports. This might have been one of those works out for everybody's situation. You know what else it said to me? Brad Stevens is unafraid to make those tough emotional moves. We've seen Danny Ainge do that for years with some of the decisions that he made. He made trading Perkins for Jeff Green, getting rid of Isaiah Thomas for Kyrie Irving.

It doesn't always work out. Sometimes it ends up being a mistake, but Brad Stevens doing this, trading Marcus Smart, as beloved as he is, as the heart and soul of the team, being the leader he is, I think he at least indicates, like, hey, I'm going to do what I think is best for this franchise to have a chance to win a title.

Who's getting married in two months. That dynamic will change. Yeah, that's going to be awkward. We'll see who goes from the celtics side we almost traded kyle two months before his wedding but we kept him we got a great offer somebody was offering us first rounders um yeah with the on the celtics side i think like my dad was bummed out today but also felt like it was completely necessary but he was like man we're just with the guy a long time all my friends feel the same yeah i was like i just it was almost like i can't believe it's over like it was kind of like a mascot as well as like the emotional leader he was the tommy points mascot he really was he was like the last connection to heinzen and i don't know even the

fact like he dyed his hair green for his mom like his mom wanted to see his hair yeah i thought it was messed up they dyed his hair blue uh that was that's too far it is one of those things we talked about a little yesterday but like looking back just a plus the the nine years with marcus even though he probably took maybe a year and a half off my life ultimately like maybe i'll live to 85 now instead of 87 with some of the shot selection um but for the most part like a pretty amazing pick to get that guy the seventh pick and and have somebody's i was thinking about him in the context of like the great role players they've had and you know he'll be in the conversation and these are with teams that won titles and stuff like that so um it'd be fun to see him on Memphis. Verno was taking shots at us today.

Love it. He didn't like our imitation of him. I can't wait to talk to him in the morning. I'm so excited. It's probably going to be 30 minutes of Marcus Smart. I can't wait for him to delete old tweets about Marcus Smart, about him being a flopper and all this other stuff. Oh, yeah, he didn't like Marcus Smart.

He really didn't. He's going to love him now. He's going to love him now. Well, he'll have some nicknames for Porzingis too. He will. What did he call him in the tweet? What was the phrase? It was something demeaning.

I can't tell if the invitations hit too close to home or he was completely outraged at our Southern accents. Probably the back. He said. Read it in the Verno voice. No, no, you do it, Cassie. Come on, Read it in the Verno voice. No, no. You do it, Cassie. Come on, Cassie.

Let's hear it. Enjoy your hobbled stork. Hobbled stork. Verno. That's awesome. What a legend. All right. We'll be back.

Unless there's another trade, we'll be back. We're going to start taping after the Celtics pick at number 25, which I can't wait. My dad today was so excited. My dad went to sleep. He didn't know about another trade. We'll be back. We're going to start taping after the Celtics pick at number 25, which I can't wait. My dad today was so excited. My dad went to sleep. He didn't know about the trade and woke up. And not only we traded

Marcus Smart, but we had a pick. And he's like, I haven't done any research. So now he's just He's like texting you about Marcus Sasser. He's like,

what do we know about Sasser? I sent him some names. And I was like, man, if we can trade up into the 15 range, that's like what do we know about i sent him some names and i was like man if we can trade up into the 15 range that's like grady dick could fall hawkins could fall case and wallace talking about a mark a smart place one of those guys is gonna go like 16 17 we'll be like whoa that's crazy value it's inevitable somebody's gonna slip out of the lottery there's just too many names

that are in lottery consideration right now i was one the things, the subplots, I was thinking is if one Thompson goes like fourth, but then the other one falls to like 14, I think it's irrevocable for them. I think that's it. They probably don't hang out after that. They blame the other one for like intel. Yeah, they need to be within a couple slots of each other. If it's like a 10-spot difference, I don't know how you come back from that. Yeah, I wanted like four or five, but then they have to do like the Antoine Jamison, Vince Carter, where they of each other, if it's like a 10 spot difference, I don't know how you come back from that. Yeah, I want it like four or five,

but then they have to do like the Antoine Jamison, Vince Carter, where they give each other the hats. They train for each other. That'd be nice. All right, this podcast was produced by a serene, mature, and just super happy Kyle Creighton. And we'll see you probably after pick 25. Thanks, guys.

Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Bill. On the wayside, I'm a fruit so I never lost it. I don't have to ever forget.