The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draftapalooza Part 2: Picks 1-6, Paolo to Orlando, and the Kings Surprise Everyone, With Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Steve Ceruti

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Steve Ceruti to give their live reactions to picks 1 through 6 of the 2022 NBA draft. Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Steve Ceruti Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, it's one of my favorite days of the year. It's the NBA draft. I love it so much. I love it so much that we are going to do a four-part Draftapalooza extravaganza. This is part two and it's all next. Let's do it. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that are when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those

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or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one, go check it out. This is part two. Me, Russillo, KOC, first Pearl Jam. All right, we're back for part two, and it is 5.05 p.m.

The draft's about to start, and we had a major bomb dropped about 30 minutes ago. Woj reporting that Orlando is now back in on Palo potentially. We don't know who's going to be drafted first where you're doing this in real time. Can't see what happened. Can we believe anything anymore?

I thought this was done. Now it's not? No. I mean, I've been reporting for a few weeks now that it wasn't certain with Jabari Smith going first to Orlando. There's still a possibility of a trade. I mean, we'll see what happens

here in the next 10 to 15 minutes or so, but I think for the Orlando Magic, they've just been keeping everything close. Jeff Weltman, the guy running their front office has wanted to work in secrecy here. And ultimately, if they do draft Paolo Bencaro with the first pick,

that doesn't necessarily mean that they keep him. It could mean that that's where they get their leverage to get Houston to cough up additional draft picks, more draft capital in the future to assure that they get their guy. And it could just be one of those types of draft night deals. So a little different than Tatum Fultz because that happened before the draft.

This is more of a leverage version of the Tatum Fultz because that happened before the draft. This is more of a leverage version of the Tatum Fultz thing. Exactly. I think that's what they've been doing. Russel, what do you make of all this? Well, you know, I wondered, I always wondered if,

you know, if they thought Oklahoma City really liked Chet, would they play it that they liked Chet the most and try to grab a pick to move down? You know, the Houston part of it is weird because it feels like they need everybody. But I guess the longer you do the evaluation, there ends up being a favor to the whole thing.

From the Paolo Orlando connection, that one seemed to be the most distant of any of the top three guys. As I said in part one, he never went in. He never went in. And I don't know if that was on Paolo's side of things, where it was like, you know what? Actually going number one isn't as important. And so I'm not going to be as accommodating or if they felt like Orlando wasn't as interested. I mean, I've heard a million different

versions of it. So we'll see. Because of the three guys, there was, again, far less contact than there was with Chet and Jabari. Well, fortunately, we have an Orlando Magic expert on this podcast. Steve Cerruti is going to come in. He is embattled.

He's traumatized. He's upset. He's anxious. He thought he was getting Jabari. He thought that's where this was going. He wanted Chet, and now you're getting Paolo, a guy that your team didn't even really work out. I'm terrified because I was talking to you guys beforehand.

The possibility of them even taking Paolo hasn't even entered my mind until like 20 minutes ago. And I just think the other two guys are better fits. I know like, listen, if they like Paolo best, take him and don't look back. The workout stuff, whether he wants to be there, just take him if you think he's gonna be the best guy in the draft. I understand

that. But there has been no talk of this. The Vegas odds have been been completely weird maybe there's a trade coming who knows but i mean if he didn't if he didn't want to work out there that that's that's terrifying to me i just don't feel good about this right now so let's talk through this here orlando has when was the latter is mid-may they've had like six weeks to think about this i'm pretty sure I can make a decision about literally anything in six weeks. Where I'm going to dinner tonight, what car I'm going to get, you name it, I can make a decision in six weeks. You can give me as much information as possible.

I'd figure it out. I don't understand how we're a half hour before the draft and Orlando allegedly doesn't know who they're going to pick, which makes me think, back to the original point, this is all a Houston leverage play. They feel like they can get Jabari at three, who's the guy they want, and they're just trying to extract something from Houston. That's the only explanation here.

So does that make you feel better that they're playing a little high-speed chess here? Maybe. I mean, they asked Jeff Weltman right after the lottery if the draft was tomorrow. Like, do you know who you'd pick? And he said definitively, yes.

So that's, I don't know. Maybe he flip-flopped then. Maybe it's the same guy as it was then. I just don't understand why Houston, why wouldn't Houston just call Orlando's bluff? They're sitting in the third spot. They could basically do no wrong there unless they only want Palo as their guy, which has gone against

pretty much everything that we've heard. They kind of said they'd be happy with any of the three. Paulo seems to want to go there and play with Jalen Green. If you can get a pick out of it, the thing is, are they going to draft him and then just hope that Houston panics and then trades for a guy that you didn't even really want

in the first place? Again, this is why this is terrifying to me. We need more information. I don't like, we need more information. Can you remember that happening before, Rosillo? A team just basically drafting a guy, hoping that it would lead to the trade, but not sure if they would keep him or not? I think, well, you're kind of, you're EEI-ing me here, where I used to love where they would do this, where they'd be like, hey, you know, to be like, hey, name the last four times Paul Pierce was a clutch shot. No, it feels like something Sacramento would have done.

Has it happened? I'm sure it has happened. Off the top of my head, do I know for certain the timeline of events where there was nothing actually agreed? It was just full leverage. But I think backing up on all of this, I don't care what anybody says publicly. First of all, Houston's in the third spot.

They're not going to say, yeah, we actually really love Chet. We'll be pissed if he's not there. Okay, sounds like we have a noise. Give it to us, KFC. What is it? Jabari Smith Jr. is going second to the Thunder. So Palos won, Jabari two,

and Chet's going to be three to Houston? Sorry, Ryan. It's good. What? No, don't be. Involuntary noise. So, as we're watching on the feed, Palo just got picked. So, the Thunder is just, oh, my God.

I mean, think about it. We spent six weeks talking about this draft. It's completely different. Nothing is right. Nothing. Not one thing. Fandle had all these odds, and they had the top five you could bet,

and they had all these scenarios. This was not one of the scenarios that you could even wager on. So Palos first, allegedly to Orlando. We'll see. But if there was a trade down, now they're...

Well, but I mean, could they be trading down? We don't know. But if OKC's taking Jabari second, then that ruins the trade. So now, Saruti, you're going to have Paolo and Franz Wagner? I don't love the fit.

But again, I guess if you're taking one and you don't worry about fit, you just have to say, who's the guy that I think could be on an all-NBA team in a couple years? Who's the guy that I think could be the best player on a championship team? Ryan, KOC, a bunch of people who we really trust,

think he's the best player in the draft. He's certainly the most pro-ready guy. I always thought Javari was the best fit just because they need shooting, and they have playmaking from other areas. I can't imagine that they want Chet now, so I guess they're just stuck with him. So hopefully they were banking on the year of the trade.

Imagine you're stuck with a guy who took number one. Wow. All right, first of all, can we back up here? Do you think an NBA team would take Paolo here and then there aren't all these different paths to different plans that they would go into it minutes before the number one pick and be like, all right, we're not sure what's going to happen behind us. So let's take Paolo hoping we have

trade leverage later on. Like, how about this? Maybe they were just really secretive about it. Maybe they always like Paolo. Maybe everything everyone has said publicly, none of it mattered because, you know, they evaluated it and they went ahead. And by the way, like Cerruti, I'm sorry, but when your team stinks, I don't want to hear about fit. I guess. I'm not saying they should. And, you know, I guess I haven't even mentally processed this yet, guys. I'm sorry.

I was sewing on Chet or Jabari, and I haven't even really dug deep on what Paulo even means to this team. I guess you're just saying, screw it. We're just going to accumulate the talent. We don't care about the fit with Franz. We don't care about the fit with the rest of the guys. He's the best dude in the draft. Well, here's the thing. As you said,

KOC and Rosillo and many other people whose opinions I really trust, who spent a lot of time in this draft, decided that Paolo is the best prospect in the draft. So it's not like they took Hashim to beat here. Like they did take somebody who a lot of people really liked. By the way, if the worst case scenario is he's just better with Franz Wagner and they're redundant, you could always trade Franz Wagner.

It's true. You do know all of Franz though. I don't think they are redundant though. We talked about the sorority with Wagner. He can play so many different roles for you. He can play with the ball, without the ball. He can slash the rim. He can spot up. And Ben Caro, that's the benefit of him. Like Ryan and I said in part one of the ball, without the ball. He can slash the rim. He can spot up. And Ben Caro, that's the benefit of him. Like Ryan and I said in part one of the podcast,

with Ben Caro, you mentioned the play. He's attacking closeouts, Ryan, dishing the ball to Mark Williams. He can play from the perimeter, but he can also post up for you and have spacing around him, like with Wagner. Or you could bring back Mo Bamba and go with a supersized front court if you want to with two bigs, or maybe Ben Caro is able to grow

defensively and become more of a small ball five in a lot of different lineups. So I think with Orlando, even though he doesn't fit the general type of vibe that we've seen those front offices go with in the past with length, Ben Caro still provides the type of vers that we've seen those front offices go with in the past with length. Bancaro still provides the type of versatility lengthy players typically provide. So I love the pick for Orlando. Number one player on my board. I think they made the right choice. Assuming they even keep him. We'll see.

Rosillo, just stripping out all the weirdness. Do you like the pick? I do. I do. The shooting wouldn't say it was always great but it's still 34 percent makes his free throws he averaged over six assists per 100 possessions uh and i i think you can immediately run some high ball screen with them and you know i'm not saying you want to run at every single possession but oh one of the way i look at my favorite basketball teams is do you have a bunch of different guys

that can create something offensively and sometimes that is something that um i guess you would say like there's there's good overlapping and bad overlapping the bad overlapping is when guys don't learn to play together. It's usually younger plays and all that kind of stuff. But the game, like I never want to hear anymore there's only one basketball. Because in the playoffs, if you start putting a couple of players out there that you don't need to guard, it clogs everything else up. And so I like somebody that can hit a shot, can make a pass, and can dribble himself in and out of trouble if he needs to create something on the fly. And I think he does all of those

things better than the other two guys at this point. So Rudy, is it possible for Orlando to ever have a normal draft or no? We've just given up. They couldn't have just told us they were taking Palo a week ago? What is the point of the drama? I mean, under this

regime, they've been notoriously tight-lipped. Nothing really leaks from them. And, you know, I guess maybe this shouldn't be that much of a surprise considering that. I mean, just all the chatter, though, around it makes this confusing, though. Like, it didn't seem like it seemed like Paolo really wanted to go to Houston

or OKC, specifically Houston. You know, we talked about the different fit stuff. I'm not as much worried about the defense with Paul. Like, I think they've got enough good defenders around him there. It'll probably be fine. Man, I just, it's wild now. Go ahead.

Wait, KOC says Chris Haynes had number two wrong, and now we're about to get the number two pick. Yeah, he's corrected. Oh, man, here we go. It's back. We're back on. I'm glad we did this in real time because people can listen to how freaking crazy all this is.

Okay. So Chet is now going second to OKC. That means Houston will take Jabari. And then we will have a flip, potentially. I'm on the edge of my seat, Priscilla. Priscilla looks like he's about to have a child.

I got a bunch of texts coming in. The Jabari thing fucked me up because I texted you guys before we started. I was like, it's Paolo and it's Chet. It's one, two. And so that Jabari thing sent me scrambling because then I started texting people as we were talking going, what the fuck?

Like, don't mess with me. Don't you know who I am? You think you're better than me? Now I feel a little bit better because I think this is where Chet wanted to go all along. Yeah. Well, here's what happened here, by the way, and I'm

glad Saruti's here. Here's what happened. Saruti did mental gymnastics for six weeks with this pick all right and you have to talk yourself into the risk of chet and the fucking guy did it he may have even ordered a jersey and now he ended up with one of the three guys that he wasn't even dming with no and he's like wait i'm supposed to go to Tulum and this is who I'm bringing? I had a different material plan for Chet or with Jabari, I had some different outfits, but I don't even know Paolo that well. Where did he go to school? And so it's not that it's not

going to work out. It's just he's been completely thrown off the day of the flight. No, I talked myself into Jabari, plug and play guy. This can be a potential play-in team next year. Like, I think they're not that bad. The roster isn't that bad. When Markel Fultz came back at the end of last year, they were like floating around a 500 team. Like, I think they could be decent next year.

And I just was like, all right, plug Jabari in there. Their biggest weakness is three-point shooting. Like, in my mind, I'm like, this makes sense. I was mentally preparing myself for them to not take Chet. The Paolo thing, like, he's the guy that that is that's the biggest wild card to me for this magic team because he yes he probably has the biggest star power he does the most things um and he's probably i don't know you could maybe say he's the safest pick because he just all of all the skill set and things that he does well i'm less concerned about defense um than some

other people i know ryan you talked about it like guys at duke like it'll it'll be all right in the long run but like I had lineup situations that I was already figuring out with Chet and Jabari. I have no lineup situations with Paolo. I have no idea, like, how this is even going to fit, what free agency moves they make,

if they try to, whether or not they bring back Mo Bamba. Like, this is all totally up in the air to me. But you're sitting here and you go, if Houston really still wanted Jabari, I'm sorry, if Houston really still wanted Paolo, is it still in play? Like, is it still in play that there could be a move here? It should still wanted Jabari. I'm sorry. Houston's really still wanted Apollo. Yeah. Is, is it still in play? Like,

is it still in play that this, that there could be a move here? It should still be in play. I don't see why not. Yeah. I think we should say that though. Like this again could be hilarious because we're talking about Apollo and Orlando and then,

you know, who knows? Yeah. Let's, um, let's shift to chat really quickly. So he does go to OKC. We'll find out what happens with Apolloolo and Jabari in a second.

Chet at OKC. He's with Poku. First of all, great buddy cop movie, Chet and Poku. I would definitely watch that. Maybe even a limited series. Actually,

Shams just tweeted that Poku's demanding a trade. Poku's like, I'm out. There's only room for one of us. KOC, just Chet, SGA, Josh Giddey. Let's just take those three. Put Trey Mann in there

because you and I have forgotten Trey Mann in the past. I actually liked what I saw from him last year. Trey Mann really finished that year strong, Ryan. So what would you add now? What's the next move? What's the next piece for them? You keep talking about our guy Victor next year, all that stuff.

But I think every bad team who's not going to make the playoffs is probably thinking of him at this point. What's like, are they a year away? Are they two years away? What's the timetable now? I mean, SGA said in his exit interview with Thunder Media

that they're going to be taking a step forward this year, which I mean, we'll see about that. I don't think they're quite as ready as SGA hopes they are. So I think for Oklahoma City, you're right, Bill. Every bad team is going to want Victor Wemba and Yama next year. But Oklahoma City has more picks than anybody ever. So I think they're positioned to do what they want to do. They could trade SGA away if they want to get worse during the year.

I think for OKC, what's next? It's simply just adding more quality talent. It's not anything specific. You mean like a Kevin Durant? No, I wouldn't go that far yet. No, I wouldn't add a veteran. I think for OKC, it's staying young, biding your time, waiting for that

next crop of superstars who might be available in two or three years because they're not close yet. Just stay young and focus on development with Dagnall as their head coach. Continue what they've been doing since they traded their veterans away. I'm at the point where I... I don't know. Would you want to be SGA

at this point? He's been in the league now. He starts out with the Clippers, goes to OKC, and basically he's been put in the fridge year after year, like around February. At some point, I would just be like, can I just play a whole season and try to make all NBA and try to be in a good team? How many years do I have to do

this? If he was OK with this, it would concern him. Right. If KOC's Victor Wambayama theory is correct, it would almost make more sense for... Did I say it? How close was I on the pronunciation, KOC's Victor Wambayama theory is correct, it would almost make more sense for, did I say it?

How close was I on the pronunciation, KOC? Pretty good. B minus C plus, something like that. How do you say it? Victor Wendanyama. I've been nailing Giannis and Ted Acumpo for like three years. So I'm going to, in a year from now,

I'll be nailing it. Yeah, Wendanyama. You got a year, dude. Yeah. But if they're looking at him, maybe SGA, at some point, maybe think about moving him

if you want to bottom out one more time. I don't know. I feel bad for him. I don't like when players are just stuck on these lottery teams. They actually win more games than you would expect, too. The weirdest thing about

all the tanking teams this year, like kind of taking cerruti's orlando point a little bit further you had all these teams that were supposed to be terrible and i felt like the last couple weeks of season like orlando was playing really hard thunder were in games um portland was the one that was like you guys think you're gonna tank wait wait and you see what we do the last couple months um and then you know we could talk all about wanting victor here stay first name basis but you know it doesn't it doesn't mean like you still have this pretty low chance of locking it in so um yeah koc that never made a ton i just

didn't understand that because if he's this generational guy that everybody's talking about it doesn't matter how many picks you have or if you throw an sga like whatever team gets the first pick is likely to take him because if he's that generational talent why would they trade that away for a bunch nobody trades that yeah nobody trades and so I just I don't really understand that and here let me zag a little bit on hinky just for a second or I'm on uh on on pressy for a second he kind of has he kind of has this hinky vibe to him we're like it's just like we're just pushing it down you know he's got a bunch of picks he's pushing it down the river they don't have to be competitive it's it's it's been a decent amount of time

here. There's no better situation than going there and him just saying, oh yeah, we're going to be good in three to four years and just keep accumulating all this talent. He has the best situation in the NBA right now. Yeah, I don't love that. Maybe make it to an NBA Finals before you're going to make that conference. He's got the resume, obviously, but

at some point, the SGA thing, he's almost too old to be a part of that rebuild, as you were saying, Bill. He doesn't fit the timeline. The one thing I'd say about Wemba Nyama next year is the fact that Luka didn't go number one, and he was this generational prospect. Teams always talk their way out of certain

players. And Scoot can go, man. Scoot is awesome. Yeah, there's other great prospects next year, too. It's one year away. We'll see. Keegan Murray, number four to the Kings. Oh! Oh! Oh, my God. They did it.

I mean... A lot of people want to trade in that spot, right? At some point, you just have to take the pick as an asset and do the best possible thing with the asset. And they said, no, we're actually going to... So now Detroit, isn't Ivy like the ultimate guy you'd want to put next to Cade or am I crazy?

I love it. It should be Ivy at number five. Is Cade going to be your new CP3, Priscilla? Is there going to be a torch passing ceremony? I don't know. Is Kane going to be your new CP3, Priscilla? Like, is there going to be a torch passing ceremony? I don't know. What's going to happen? There's nothing like your first love,

man. Second wife? This draft, I just can't get over. So, we have Jabari at three. We might have a trade. We have the Kings saying,

fuck it. And taking Keegan Murray over Ivy, who had clearly had more value than anything and then Detroit's going to end up with Ivy at five, which is they were dying to have that happen. And we're going to take a break and when we come back we'll find out more. We've got to make sure we pay

attention to Ivy's face because if he's pretending he's disappointed that he's still waiting around when he did nothing to like and I remember I was talking to nothing to like... And I remember, I was talking to another team this week. I go, you're just going to take him.

And they go, you know how scary it is when you don't like... The guy has zero reciprocation whatsoever. And you don't have the medicals. You don't have any of that stuff. And then you got an owner. So anyway.

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Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. So I got to ask, the pick is in for the Kings and we know they're going to take Murray. Are we sure the Pistons shouldn't parlay this Ivy pick into a bunch of stuff potentially? Or do you think Ivy is 100% the right guy? What would you do, KFC? You're running the Pistons right now. They might, because the Knicks have been

trying to trade up to get Jade and Ivy. And I've heard throughout the day that the Knicks will move number 11. It's just a matter of whether it's up, down, out. So there's still a possibility a trade could happen here. But ultimately, I think the Jade and Ivy, you know, Cade Cunningham fit is

really nice. Having those two guys together, they can play with or without the ball. If they decide to keep it, I get it. But it depends on like how much are they being offered for a team to move up if they do want to move down

because I'm with you there. Like there's logic to taking multiple pieces. What if you add Aiton to that and now you have Aiton, Cade Cunningham, and Jaden Ivey and that's your foundation?

It's pretty good. It's pretty nice. Can I ask KOC a Keegan question? I spent a lot of time that's your foundation it's pretty good it's pretty nice can i ask koca keegan question uh i spent a lot of time on it when it's when it's good it's what what do you think all of our collective like hold up is with him because i felt like hey i really like him but i i obviously there's other guys you know i felt differently about i mean i i think with him at least for me personally there's like a little bit of the lack of shot creation. So I'm Horford there where he's just relying on others to create for him.

And so, I mean, if you keep De'Aaron Fox, he averages 29 points per game after the Tyrese Halliburton trade. You have Davion Mitchell. Sabonis can create too. For the Kings specifically, maybe that doesn't matter as much. You just want the best finisher possible since you have so much creation from other sources. So I think that's my

hesitation and like in a vacuum comparing him to someone like the Matherin Ivy and Sharp and all these guys who are creators. But for Keegan Murray, I like the fit in Sacramento. I just wish they drafted him lower than four. I do genuinely like the fit just four is a little high.

I'm going to weigh in with the Keegan Murray opinion. I do genuinely like the fit. Just four is a little high. I'm going to weigh in with a Keegan Murray opinion. I really like him. Good player. I think he, I think, look, if Ivy doesn't want to be the Kings

and you couldn't find a trade, you're like, I get the mentality of let's just take this guy who really fits in with what we have. Did you see, did you look at the career

PR in college? And Murray's PR last season was like 37. And I think Zion was 40. Zion has the record in college since they've been measuring PR. But Murray was way up there. But it's just like, could he be a 39% three-point shooter and somebody who gets like seven, eight rebounds a game and pretty good defender.

I guess the question is, is that, is that the fourth pick? Well, he's also 27. Yeah. I'd also feel better if he wasn't 22 in August. Um, yeah, but you could tell when you watch a play, he's coached really well. He's really smart. The transition numbers are really good. The spot numbers are good.

I mean, when you watch him, you like him. There's no doubt. I just, it always feels like with him there's another little gear that you would want him to get to. He showed some of that in the Big Ten tournament game where he went off in one of those games, KOC. Across the board, you're right.

Every single, if you look at all of his possession, points per possession stuff, transition, excellent ratings, all the synergy stuff, spot up excellent, post excellent um offensive rebounds it's usually pretty high efficiency when you're grabbing a lot of boards i think he's kind of a nice combo hybrid forward i just like jayden and i like mathren and i think dyson daniels were all guys i would take ahead of him at his age yeah that's that's the weird part for them i mean

like you'd like the fit for Sacramento given their current roster, but ultimately you do wonder, and we don't know all the details yet, but you wonder could they have gotten enough in a trade down to still get Murray or another prospect of near equal caliber in addition to other draft assets, other players

because that's what we heard about for a long time now with teams offering like Atlanta offering John Collins and their first rounder for the number four pick. That's too far for Sacramento to fall down in the draft. But I wonder if there was something out there from Indiana at number six. They wanted Ivy or Murray as well at number four or even a team like number nine with San Antonio.

There was talk about them wanting to move up. So we don't know all the details of what was out there right now, but I like the fit. I think it's a good fit for them. It's just about drafting them for ahead of some of those other prospects. That's where it's not an A plus selection. What was she has the Pistons pick in? It's Jaden Ivey.

Okay, man. So Pistons, I can already see the A plus for the draft for them and the draft grades this is great I mean some people said Ivy could be even better than the fourth pick in this draft they get him five I thought there was a chance they might trade up for him

throw in a future first something like that what else is going on Twitter Cerruti anything well people are talking about could this be is this again a Kings moment of them passing on a generational talent to take somebody who isn't? For example, they picked Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. Bill still likes

him. That's true. He's still, you know, shout out to Detroit. They passed on Damian Lillard, took, passed on with the sixth pick in the draft, and then they famously took Jimmer for debt 10, and then Klay Thompson won 11. So this is just the history of the Kings passing on guys. Yeah, there's way more than that, too. We could have done seven other draft. And then they famously took Jimmer for 10 and then Klay Thompson won 11. So this is just the history of the Kings. Oh, there's way more.

Yeah, there's way more than that too. We could have done seven other runs. And this is just lining up to be part, you know, 75 of that again. It's tough because now this is all self-inflicted, but the Kings are in the no-win situation where if they took another point guard, it would have been hilarious

because it would have been four straight drafts for them, like taking basically a guy who could be your lead ball handler. No, because Bagley was in there. Yeah, four out of five. And the best one, they traded away. And the best one, again, they probably passed on in this draft. So they have like the two worst of those guards probably on the roster right now. Is it fair to say that the Kings taking Murray over Ivy increases your

confidence that Ivy's going to be really good now? It's like the opposite of someone taking a Spurs. Spurs taking a guy and you're like, oh, this guy's definitely going to hit. I used to do that. He's guaranteed to be great. I used to do that with the Spurs. I don't know that I do it anymore. And when we're laughing

when it's not Ivy, I hope people understand that we're not laughing at Keegan. We're just not. We're just going like, all right, Sacramento's in this spot. I think Keegan's good. Yeah. It's tough, though, because Ivy, by all accounts, seems to be the last guy with the superstar ceiling in this draft.

Unless somebody out of nowhere in a later pick just puts something together. There'll be somebody after 10 who's going to be really good. Are we sure? Are we sure with Murray? I don't believe he has superstar level upside, but are we sure he doesn't with his size, 6'8", defensive versatility, knockdown shooter. He was a late bloomer in high school,

late bloomer in college. He was on the bench his freshman year. Sometimes these guys, they're just not following the same trajectory that we are typically used to for stars. But I mean... What's your comp for him? Best case scenario.

I think in the draft guide, we had Horford, Warren, TJ Warren, and Pascal Siakam. Different flavors. I was thinking Siakam. I thought Siakam seems to be the one that, you know, somebody who can get to 20 points a game and you're never really sure how each game other than the threes. Versatile defender, all that stuff. Yes. I like that he was, I mean, he was dominant in the Big Ten. That should count for something. It's not like he was, you know, playing in the Patriot League. All right. So Ivy has officially been picked. Oh, Pacers. Woe is just tweeted. Matherin, number six.

Oh, man. They got some gamers on the Pacers. So that'd be Matherin, Duarte, Halliburton. Oh, man. That's a nice backcourt. You know, League Pass. Rosillo, you really, you dwell like very few others with the non-playoff

teams on League Pass. You'll give teams a long look. I'd like to change that in the future, but yeah. No, you'll give them long, extra long looks. But League Pass, there's really not going to be a lot of bad teams next year. Even the bad teams are going to be really fun to watch,

like Orlando, Detroit, Indiana. They're teams I actually would want to watch. Yeah, and they're going to be really fun to watch like Orlando, Detroit, Indiana. They're teams I actually would want to watch. Yeah, and they're going to look even different. I mean, Miles Turner I think right now is the active leader in being available. He signed a four-year deal.

I feel like Turner's been available sooner. I feel like as soon as he signed his four-year extension he was available. He's been available for three years. And then Brogdon, who just doesn't play enough. So we can hear about Brogdon's name and all these different rumors. And Collins is definitely a one seed in that conversation.

Maybe timeline-wise, you can find something before Turner. I don't know. I mean, Turner's been around a little bit longer. Who else is on your available All-Stars? Taylor Horton Tucker? All-Stars or just available? Just available. He doesn't have to be an All-Starars. Taylor Horton Tucker? All-Stars? Or just available? Just available. He doesn't have to be an All-Star.

First team? Yeah. Yeah. Taylor Horton Tucker. As soon as he signed that one. I could see Grant Williams easing into their next season. I think 24 playoff games of Grant. I think everybody was looking forward to the vacation on the Souths,

including a Madoka. I think I read too many articles about PJ Tucker to the Sixers today. Cause like every time it was like, has interest in that. They went through seven reasons why it won't happen. And I was like, okay. But no PJs,

you know, kind of floating around the last couple of years with this math. By the way, go ahead. Do you still have that? You go. I'm telling you, everyone that spent time with this guy loved him. The interviews, the workouts, when you watch him play,

I was like, where's this guy from and what's his background? And it was tough. He plays that way. I still don't, I can't believe they lost the Houston tournament, but if you go to the TCU game, him having these big time moments, this is Stanford Steve's favorite player of the entire draft class, by the way, just a little sprinkle of

Pac-12 knowledge for you, but he was not to go Mark Jackson on you, but as impressive as he was as a player, he was just as impressive as a person. You did go Mark Jackson. Special talent, special plan. KFC, what do you think of him?

And being a father is even more important than being a point guard. Father's Day, Father's Week. Are we talking about a Benedict Mict mathurin mark jason cop here or no mathurin fits with the pacers back yeah give us that give us that lucky lineage of pacers guards great transition there uh mathurin i mean like jackson uh no but mathurin with halliburton those two guys i'm so excited to see like halliburton's playmaking with Matherin's ability to play with and without the ball because we saw Zona as a freshman.

He's rocking off ball, coming off screens, cutting to the rim. Then as a sophomore, they put the ball in his hands and he's a creator, one of the primary creators for that team. So with Halliburton, we already know how smart he is, how high IQ of a player that he is with his ability to play on and off the ball so what indiana's building here is a team with a bunch of multiple uh guys you can play with and without and so i think with that backcourt you get the speed and the explosiveness and the intensity of mathurin with kind of that fluidity herky jerkinessjerkiness of Halliburton. I don't know. I'm fired up about how those guys are going to be able to play together.

And then Miles Turner with those guys. No Sabonis in the front court next to them. We might see the best version ever of Miles Turner too. I have a hot take. I would trade Brogdon for Julius Randle if I was the Pacers. I actually think Julius Randle is now too low. His value has gone too low for a guy who was one of the 10 best players

in the league a year ago and obviously had a weird year, and I get it, but he was also on a weird team that I think, I don't know why it went sideways, but people were talking about Brogdon being worth the 10th pick, the 11th pick.

I just don't think he stays on the court enough. And if the Knicks, if the Knicks are hot for him and you could just flip him into Randall, just fundamentally, that's a good basketball trade. Randall fits into the other people they have on this team. So I'm just throwing that one out there because it does seem like they're going to trade Brogdon. But I think Brogdon is one of those guys that just doesn't seem to have the actual value that seems to be preceded in some of these fake trade stuff. Like if the Knicks traded the 11th pick for him, I just think that would be bonkers. That wasn't happening. I don't.

Yeah. So Rudy, any update on Jabari Paula? No. I mean, it feels like if we were going to find out about a trade, it would have happened by now, right? There's no way. Apparently, he's going to talk to the media. He's already done multiple interviews. I mean, I know the hat thing over the years has been weird

because you'll always go back in time and see a guy wearing a wrong hat talking about how he's going to be on a different team in a couple hours. But it seems like it's done. And maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and I'm being a homer and I'm sort of talking myself into this. But you go Markel Fultz, Jalen Suggs, Franz Wagner, Paulo Banqueiro, and and Randall Carter Jr. Isaac off the bench. Who knows? Your boy Bamba's

coming back. Name me a better young roster in the league right now. Name me a young roster on a lottery team that you'd rather have than that. Would you rather be OKC with their group? I don't know. I think it's close. I'd certainly... I mean, I guess you could say Ivy and Cade is really fun as a duo,

but what's the rest of that team look like? As a five, that's an awesome five to build around and it's going to be a fun watch next year. The only thing, though, is that now with Ivy there, it takes the pressure off of Killian. That's true. Yeah. What a wonderful time for your guy, Killian. Yeah, what does this

mean for Killian Hayes' future? I like it for him. He can kind of reset emotionally. Yeah. I like it for him. He can kind of reset emotionally. Lower expectations. Have him play great defense as he has his first two years. Just needs to learn

how to shoot. You know what's crazy? There's so many teams now that Aiton is like the perfect, so many younger teams that aren't that good where Aiton's like

the perfect max guy for them. He makes sense for OKC too. Makes sense for San Antonio. You could argue it makes sense for Indiana if they. Makes sense for San Antonio. You could argue it makes sense for Indiana if they were just going to trade Turner. Definitely Detroit. Going down the line, everybody could use that guy.

It continues to be amazing to me that the Suns didn't lock that down a year ago and that they left the door open for this. He's getting the max and I don't think they're going to want to pay it. We'll see what happens. Is he worth the max for Detroit? You think that's worth it? He is to me.

I could also see Detroit trying to do an OKC here where they go into the season with some cap space or try to pick up an asset here or there. Portland's up at seven. Portland was trying to trade, allegedly, seven for OG Ananobi. Toronto was saying, no, we didn't talk about this in part one.

I was stupefied that Toronto wouldn't be like, you're going to give us the number seven pick for OG Ananobi? That's great. We'll do that right now. He's like 17, 18, 19 million a year. He's been in the league, I think for six years

because he missed his first year of his heart. And I just kind of feel like he is what he is. I don't like him as much as other people like him. What am I missing with him, KOC? Why do people think Ananobi for the seven is actually like a deal Toronto wouldn't do? It doesn't seem

like they would. With OG Ananobi, I don't think you're necessarily missing anything with him. People know who he is. It's just about for Toronto, short-term contracts, can he be flipped into something long-term that can provide go-to scoring? They experimented with that early in the season with OG and Inouye. He was isolating far more often, running more pick and rolls.

And then over the course of the year, we saw Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam get that responsibility. And OG was not that great doing it. I mean, it's nice that he can do it far more than he did before. But the lack of creation there is one of the things that Toronto is missing. So I think for them, you know, those discussions are about getting a player who can do that, whether it's in the draft or whether it's in the trade. I wouldn't expect them to trade OG and Inobi unless it's for like a move up in terms of that shot creation department.

Blazers pick is in. It's a spicy one. It's Shaden Sharp. Shaden Sharp to the Blazers. Which is exactly the type of thing that maybe Toronto would want in a trade, but for Portland, that's a little funky. Sharp's not ready to play. That feels like a trade.

If they keep Shaden Sharp, you might be getting the best long-term talent, which think he is i have him fourth on my big board uh so i love the pick in that sense but for a team that says they're trying to win with damian lillard just traded for jeremy grant shader sharp isn't necessarily a guy who's going to help you his rookie year uh maybe until his second year because he's so raw you have sharp fourth overall yeah i have him i have him fourth on my big board. So you had him, what, ahead of Cheddar? Ahead of Ivy.

Ahead of Ivy. Okay. How did you get there? Because the footage on him was limited, and the EYBL stuff is fascinating. He already plays like my hamstring hurts James Harden as a teenager, and the shot goes in all the time time so it's just he's a weird evaluation now with Shaden Sharp it's just the type of thing where like I just love the scoring ability and in the J Kyle Mann analysis video he got into some of the footage of his lower

level you know before EYBL where he's playing in a team context where the goal is to actually win games and that's where you see some of where the goal is to actually win games. And that's where you see some of the passing, the desire to pass. That's where you see some of the effort on defense coming in help side, you know, using his athleticism to use the rule of verticality inside the paint to help. That's where I think the true shade and sharp appears with what he can do as an overall player. And personality wise, you hear stuff about how he's super quiet. But everything I've heard about him

is that this dude is in the gym. Like, he genuinely works at his game, wants to become the best he can possibly. So it's partially Intel-based with personality. And also, I just think some of the stuff at lower levels

prior to EYBL is just insane. And real quick, too, Schmitz, Mike Schmitz from ESPN, now one of the assistant GMs of Portland. Another team was telling me he probably had more access to Sharp than anyone else because ESPN had access to some of the other stuff that they were doing. So it was just something that

it was like a note this week where I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And then, you know, so if they keep them, not worth whatever. It's worth mentioning, I guess. Yeah, I mean, a possibility I was thinking is if OKC is trying to trade up from 12 to 7, and maybe it's like 12 and Lou Dort for 7

so they can get sharp, because they were rumored for sharp for a while that they wanted to trade up from 12. So if Portland's trying to win now, that's the kind of trade where you could get Lou Dort and then plus whoever at 12, now you got two guys for the one but we'll see the Schmitz thing is an interesting piece to this because

you're right I mean he I'm just interested in general to see how he's going to do with them but this is the type of thing like he would have had more insight on this guy than just about anybody we're going to wrap up part two Steve Cerruti thanks for joining us thanks to Dylan Berkey thanks to Kyle Crane for producing we're coming back for part three buddy. We're going to wrap up part two. Steve Cerruti, thanks for joining us. Thanks for doing it,

Berkey. Thanks to Kyle Crane for producing. We're coming back for part three, which is going to be picks eight through 16. It'll probably be a little shorter than this one, and then we'll do a winners and losers much later. Thanks. On the wayside I don't have Feelings within On the wayside I don't have