The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draftapalooza Part 3: OKC Gets Frisky + the Sneaky Knicks With Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Steve Ceruti

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Steve Ceruti for their live reactions to picks 8-14 of the 2022 NBA draft, including Bill’s boy Jeremy Sochan going to the Spurs, OKC dropping a lot of draft capital, and what the hell the Knicks are trying to do. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo, Kevin O’Connor, and Steve Ceruti Producers: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, it's one of my favorite days of the year. It's the NBA draft. I love it so much. I love it so much that we are going to do a four-part Draftapalooza extravaganza. This is part three, and it's all next. Let's keep going. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel.

Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest-rated sportsbook is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way if you were wrong. You could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game

across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs in the next drive. They have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com

to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler

or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers,

and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like.

90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lights today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one and part two, we covered all the pre-draft stuff and then we covered picks one through six in part two.

This is part three, real time, us talking about what's going on, picks seven through the end of the lottery and maybe a little bit more. Me, Russillo KFC. It's all next,

first, Pearl June. All right, we're back for part three. It is now 5.51 p.m. PT. New Orleans just took Dyson Daniels with the eighth pick. We're waiting for some trade stuff. We'll see how that goes. If you missed the part two, part two was one of the funnier real-time pods we've had.

There was like nine things that happened that blew our minds. KOC Dyson Daniels to the Pelicans at number eight. What do you think? I love this. I love this for the Pelicans. Daniels was one of the risers of the pre-draft period kind of from mid-first round to mid mid lotto now so I think with New Orleans they don't need anything like

they have they have everything as long as they have Zion healthy which is a big if obviously but for them you can play Daniels with others on this roster like you can pair him in a back court with CJ McCollum think about remember the Blazers years ago when they brought in Evan Turner and paid him way too much money

and they had him paired with Damian Lord and CJ McCollum. The idea of that was to have a large ball handler who can provide shot creation next to their guards, but also have multi-positional defense. With Daniels, that's a similar idea with CJ McCollum. Multi-positional defender who improved his jumper through the pre-draft process. I mean, we'll see if he can sustain it, but that was really the only concern with him was his jumper. So now for New Orleans, having another ball handler on top of everything else, they're

going to be able to throw out lineups of five guys who can all shoot, handle, create for others, defend multiple positions. And that's what Daniels does best is defense. This dude, like he's going to be next to Herb Jones. That's going to be crazy to watch. Yeah, he's going to be next to Herb Jones. That's going to be crazy to watch. My guy. Yeah, it's going to be so fun to watch the Pelicans.

My guy, Herb. Now they might have to trade CJ McCollum. No, I'm just kidding, CJ. More and more CJ trades. Rossello, what's the update on your guy Zion? Because the Pelicans, I think, are a high ceiling, low floor team, and he's the reason. Yeah. Look, I think Griff was pretty open about their level of wanting to max him out, but I also think he protected himself with his comment on the podcast where he felt like,

and he shared with us, that there would be some protections. Some protections on, hey, we're giving you a max contract. It's not the Kyrie thing because it's different reasons, but some protections there. Cause the guy hasn't played a lot of basketball and, you know, he'd said, Hey, point Zion was an all time efficiency guy. I mean the point Zion year, I think Zion did set the record for most points per 36 we've seen in NBA history. Um, but that's not really what you want. You know, it was, it was almost a novelty because the team stunk. It was like, hey, let's all go watch him. But Dyson makes the right play all the time. He sees the game in an advanced way. He sees the game in a way that not everybody is born with. And he's huge.

I know what he's listed at, KOC. But when I watch him in those G League games, I was watching him this morning against the Delaware team. And he rejected some center at the rim and humiliated him. He was just like, get this shit. And if his shot didn't take a week and a half to get out of his hands and off his shoulder, he might be the third or fourth pick in the draft. His defensive ability, he's one of those guys. There's certain players you have to push him to try to stay engaged. He's just one of those dudes that's getting other players engaged on the floor.

And in the G League, you can see that with his communication, directing people around. He's just, I think with Herb Jones and Dyson Daniels, those two guys together, their ability to switch screens, add in Brandon Ingram for that matter too, their ability to switch screens on defense,on ingram for that matter too their ability to switch screens on defense surround lineups that involve cj with length it's gonna be crazy the types of lineups are gonna be able to put on the floor you can you even non-cj lineups you don't lose shot creation because you still have dyson daniels his his best skill on offense is passing he's 68 guys i mean he just turned 19. He's huge. I can't wait for you. I mean, I hope it works because he's

such a smart player, but people loved him. I know New Orleans did a lot of work with a couple of the Australian players. Usman Jang, who played for New Zealand. Go ahead, KFC. Speaking about New Orleans doing work, they have Fred Vinson, best shooting

coach in basketball. Look at what he has already done with Ingram, with Lonzo Ball. Now he's going to have Dyson Daniels. You're going to find the best version of Daniels as a shooter too there. By the way, really fun defensive lineup if Daniels comes through the way you guys seem to think where they could have him and Herb Jones together

with Alvarado, who's just a thief and just prowling around like a maniac. And then Larry Nance. Like, that's... You throw that out for like five minutes, that's a pretty fun change of pace. They're putting together a playoff team and they have all those draft picks

that if they want to get ambitious with the center spot, they have the Jonas way. I think he's got maybe a year left on his contract. Don't forget Kyra Lewis. Yeah, Kyra. Kyra, man. What a draft that was.

Yeah, I like that pick. I've liked the picks for the most part. The Kings one gives me pause just because it seems like they took somebody who didn't have the best value. So Rudy, you're still here. We haven't asked you yet to go through all the perk comps.

You're going to be coming up with those later in part three. Apparently, perk's on the draft and he's had some comps. I'm the reason they have the comps because that first year in the draft, we did those. And I remember working with Jalen. Jalen had his first list of comps when we did the draft. And I had to intervene and be like, no, no, you can't say these on TV. Like he couldn't get it. He got better the the second year.

But we had a lot of fun just trying to figure out. So apparently he had Ben Simmons for Paolo. That was the thing that happened? Yeah, apparently, you know, Perk, you know, great on first take. You know, he's a guy like to mix it up. I get the idea. He's a valuable TV presence. I get it.

There's no question. I really like Perk. I just don't know that a hot take guy like that is on the desk at the NBA draft. But neither here nor there. I'm not going to make programming decisions for them. Apparently, his comp for Paulo Banqueiro was Michael Beasley and Ben Simmons,

which, you know... Beasley could go in college, just to be fair to Perk. Beasley was 25 a game in college. Or maybe he was more. Wasn't he like 30? I think he was, yeah. Would have been like a 30, 15 guy.

The pick is in for the Spurs. Prediction, KOC, or do you already know it? I already know it. What is it? Oh, it's Sohan. The nine, right? That's who they took? That's my guy.

I was like, wait, did I get it wrong? I thought I saw that. Sohan, yeah. That's my guy. Jeremy was like, wait, did I get it wrong? I thought I saw that. Sohan, yeah. That's my guy. Jeremy Sohan at number nine. I've been building a house on Sohan Island for the last three months.

Is the property prices going up already since the Spurs took him? Or is that, you know, worn off? Not surprised. Not surprised. I think he has

Sean Marion possibilities. Now, Rosella's got me excited about Daniels. I want to go back and look at him more, but I just love Sohan. There's no doubt

that he's going to have valuable time on a very good playoff team at some point in his career. He's my kind of guy. I know you like him too, Rossella.

I do. He's very different. He's very different because you know, if you say, okay, can he shoot? I'm like, no. Is he a scorer?

Nope, not really. But just let him go out there. Let him go out there and let the opponent feel him for 30 plus minutes. And he's going to, his presence is going to be felt. Every team should want a Sohan. But don't, just because we're excited about it when he's shooting

30% for three and averaging six a game. Like, you have to look at him differently. And excited about it when he's shooting 30% for three and averaging six a game. You have to look at him differently. It's like he already understands his role as a freshman in college as a fairly high regarded recruit, too. Coming off the bench, too.

What's that? Coming off the bench, too. Yeah, he only started one of 30 games. Well, to Spurs, they're one of the teams that are really good at fixing somebody's shot if it's not that awesome. So that could happen as well.

But I just feel like, as we've discussed many times, I like the guys who I feel like could play in the finals that I just watched. You could have thrown him out in that finals. He would have been fine

on either team for seven minutes. I mean, nobody would have guarded him, but he still would have been jumping around and trying to make stuff happen. I like that pick for them. So they'll have him. I assume they're going to keep Murray. I still don't know where that Murray stuff came from. And I don't know why San Antonio just wouldn't have come out and said, why are people saying we're going to trade Murray? We love Murray. I always feel like when

weirdo trade rumors start, I almost want the team to come out and just forcefully deny it, and they didn't. So I still don't get that part. I know we'll find out more info. KOC, any Sohan thoughts before we move on? Just love that, dude. I mean, like Ryan said, just throw him out there and

see what happens. The intensity he brings on the floor. I think the Matrix 2.0 is a pretty good comparison. It is. If you plop Sean Marion into the modern NBA, you might get a Jeremy Sohan. Pretty much the same size, right? Marion was 6'9",

Sohan's 6'10". Yeah. I mean, look, they ran the fifth most. He had the fifth most plays for him on that Baylor team. I mean, think about this. This kid goes top 10 and he's a four-star recruit and there are four guys that had more plays run for him ahead of him I mean Chet was in a similar situation but Chet still was like part of the offense and Chet was really good off off the ball there's a play he has where like he goes

down he falls in the baseline and he goes to tip it back into a teammate like there is some Draymond shit here it's not the same same passing. Draymond's passing ability is what makes him who he is on top of it. But the effort, the, oh man, this guy's out here type of stuff, there are similarities on that part of it where he could have zero field goal attempts for a five-minute stretch and you feel like he's dominating the basketball game. It would be fun if the Spurs traded for Tybal and just put him and Soha next to each other. Just unleash them. They would be like the

Jeff Bridges' two dogs and the old man. You guys watching the old man? No. Oh my God, we're so low. What does that mean? You would love that show. Okay, I'm on it. That's all I needed to know. What does that mean? You would love that show. Okay, I'm on it. That's all I need to know.

No, I mean like you would be like the all-time I love this show guy for the old man. That's great because I just finished The Offer and so I need a new show. Yeah. Jeff Bridges is in this. Yeah. Hey, real quick, KOC on Sohan. He played center, right?

They went small ball center with him at Baylor. I don't know that it was a ton, but that's part of it, correct? Yeah, they did do that a little bit with him. Not a lot, but that's the type of thing we're going to see a lot more in the NBA with San Antonio. I like what the Spurs have. Rudy was talking earlier about young cores. I think that Spurs young core is low-key really impressive, too. I mean, you want to throw DeJounte Murray into that who's already very, very good.

Vassell, Keldon Johnson, the progress they've made. Keldon's good. Keldon's, I think, one of the most overlooked guys in the league. I like him too. I agree. They got a good core. That could be a fun Aiton team too. Aiton, a lot of options. There's a bunch of teams

he could go to that would be really fun. Did you see this Perk comp? What was it? He said Chet Holmgren's a less Turkish teams he could go to that would be really fun. Did you see this Perk comp? What was it? He said Chet Holmgren's a less Turkish Omer Asik. Come on. I gotta double check it. It's from one of those aggregator sites. Cerruti, what's the word on

Orlando Houston? That ship has sailed? It's definitely sailed. Some of the Houston Rockets fans are trickling into my timeline right now, and they're kind of bummed. I think a lot of them were... Not that they don't think Jabari's a good fit, but I think most of them were counting on Paolo being their guy

and they could picture Paolo and Jalen Green playing together for the next 10 years. I wonder if Paolo's even bummed, too, because I don't think he really knew. He never went to Orlando for a workout. I guess they had like a couple of phone calls and that's about it. And I want to know like from you guys, has that ever happened in the history league

where the number one pick hasn't even worked out for the team that took him one? That seems, maybe I'm missing something, but that seems absolutely insane. I mean, we covered this in a previous part. I just don't understand the downside of not bringing him in. It's not like,

it's not like they're trying to hide him because they're afraid somebody's going to take him in front of them. He's not like it's not like they're trying to hide him because they're afraid somebody's going to take him in front of them. He's they have the first pick. So I mean it's just a really weird way

to run a business but not surprising considering they have one of the weirdest ownership front office situations in the league. Well could it be though that you know

like we mentioned in part one or two that his camp didn't want him to go to Orlando, and so they were the ones saying no? Because you're right. Why wouldn't Orlando at least bring him in? Well, I said this about

Chet, because there were some rumors before the draft that Chet wanted to be in OKC, didn't necessarily want to be in Orlando, which I thought was weird. I think he would just want to be the first pick and do that. But I have to say, I got to give kudos to the Magic front office, because just pick the best guy. I always don't worry about that who cares like bringing the guy that you think is going to be awesome and if they think paulo's the guy that's going to be awesome

who cares like workout chatter whatever this is the guy that we wanted you target him you just take him and don't ask any questions later um but i have a quick update for you bill too actually uh on jayden ivy apparently just speaking of terrible front offices, apparently there were a ton of teams calling the Pistons after they took Ivey, asking if he was available, which would mean that there could have been a ton of trade opportunities for the Kings at four to move that pick because a lot of teams

wanted to move up and they didn't do it and they took Keegan Murray. So again, it's just the lack of competency from the Kings, like decades and decades of this. I just feel bad for Kings fans. It's such a bummer because Vivek's a really nice guy and it just seems like he needs somebody in his life who can run the basketball team.

This has been his entire career. You know who's always told me that you should take the best player is Rosillo. That's been one of your mantras. Yeah, it's amazing philosophy. Take the best guy. So maybe Orlando just, That's been one of your mantras. Yeah, it's amazing philosophy. Take the best guy. So maybe Orlando just,

I wonder if they had Jabari for a while and then last night they were just at a dinner and they were like, wait a second, what are we doing? They were like, I thought you didn't want to take Paolo. And it was like one of those. And they just went around like, so should we take him? And then all of a sudden they're taking him. Might've been it. Yeah, it doesn't mean it works all the time.

It doesn't mean that you also aren't projecting and stuff. But I just, I really don't like the fit rule. I think that's when you make mistakes. Bill and I were going over the Minnesota Timberwolves mistake of not taking Curry twice. That's a difference. Hey, my team screwed up this draft pick. Hey, welcome to the club. No, no, no, no.

We passed on him twice and took two other guards, although we went over the Rubio history, which was relevant to the conversation. But when Portland starts going, hey, let's get cute, we get Jarrett Jack later because we like this wing because we took Telfair, and you don't take Chris Paul or Darren Williams, that's when you fuck things up, man.

Yeah. Well, Washington took Johnny things up, man. Yeah. Well, Washington took Johnny Davis at the 10th pick. I feel like that wasn't a fuck up. That was probably the right pick. KFC, who'd you have going there in your mind? And did you think that was a good pick? I had Davis at 10 to the Wizards. Right.

Yeah. You go, KFC. A lot of intel was playing there for the last couple days but if be assuming beal stays i like that backcourt you know davis can provide some defense in the backcourt next to bradley beal some good balance um you know i'm curious what you think with davis you know he's a it comes with accolades out of college. More of a mid-range guy, needs to extend his range. But I like the passing. He hits tough shots.

But at the NBA level, I haven't been able to fall in love with him, though, yet. Because he just hasn't been efficient from outside the paint. So in that sense, I don't love the pick. I don't love him as a prospect. But, I mean, 6'4", 6'5", can post up for you too. It'll be intriguing to see how they use him next to Bradley Beal. If they bring Beal back, I'm sure we're going to see a lot

more of the off-ball stuff like we did when he was with John Wall. I guess my fear with him, Marcelo, is he's like two inches too short for where I want him to be. And I worry about the short shooting guard sometimes. I remember Gary Harris was like the perfect example.

I just feel like six foot six Gary Harris would have been unbelievable. Six foot three Gary Harris, it just always felt like an issue. And Davis just seems... He measured better than you might have thought though. Because I felt like when I watched him play, again, I think it's really... Like when I watch Ivy and somebody else is supposedly the same size as him, I go, I don't know.

Ivy just looks like a bigger person to me. You know, the way he's built, some of the other stuff. Davis measured at just under 6'6". All right. And for those- Is that true? With sneakers on or no sneakers?

No, but it's the sneakers thing, which is what we use across the board still. I remember they said they were going to change at KOC, but- Oh, they were back to sneakers now for NBA measurements? Well, the thing is, is when everybody else coming in was with the sneaker measurement, I don't

know then why we're supposed to treat the newest class as two inches shorter, inch and a half shorter across the board. It doesn't make any sense. And we also keep everybody on the sneaker measurement no matter how much taller they get. There's guys that grow after the fact. So he's also got the six and a half inch wingspan, which can make up

for some of that size. Here's what's important about the shooting numbers. He was 43 and 30%. 43 overall, 30.6 from three, four attempts per game. Last season as a freshman, he was 44 and 39% from three in the splits, less shots. But this was not a very good Wisconsin team. And he had to save their ass on so many possessions that I look at some numbers with players and I go, okay, is this a great reflection of who he is as a shooter? Hell, like Max Christie from Michigan State, I like his form, just never goes in. And it's like, maybe we'll get to him later in the first round.

With Davis, he takes some bad shots, but he also had to take a lot of bad shots. So I don't know if that shooting number is a true reflection of him. His rebounding's insane. He plays basketball like a football player. So I think the mental part of it, he has a chance. But I'm with you. I always felt like he was, as a starting guard in the NBA for 10 years, that would be pretty amazing

because I'm not sure that's what I see right now. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too.

You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. When you ride transit, please be safe.

Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming.

You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah. An example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay. Give it up. Give what up? Really? Really really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. Well, the most exciting words

in the NBA draft every year are the Knicks are on the clock. The Knicks are on the clock. Do we know their pick, KOC? They took Usman Jang, who we talked about on your pod earlier in the week, Bill. International prospect, 6'10". It's going to be... I mean, we said in one of the earlier parts, the Knicks were potentially moving this pick.

I know a lot of teams were worried, including OKC at 12, Cleveland at 14, about Jang falling to them. I wonder if we'd say a move here or if the Knicks are just drafting for upside because Jang isn't ready to put them in the postseason, but he's a bucket getter or theoretically a bucket getter. If a shot develops, he can pass. Versatile defensive player. That's the one thing. And when we talk about raw players, we often talk about offense, but I don't think Jang's all that raw on defense. You can see the way he moves, the way he rotates

on the defensive end of the floor in the NBL last year playing against grown men. I like Jang a lot. I had him top 10 on my board. So for the Knicks, this is an upside pick and maybe they could trade it. We'll see. Russell, you loved him. Yeah, he's one of my favorites. He was one of the first guys when I get caught up and

dove into this. I almost want to put him at five like one week, which might be crazy because I also watch him play and go, all right, I see how this doesn't work. There's been a rumor now for weeks that he's promised to Cleveland 14. He did a lot of work on him. They're getting him, Ryan.

Thunders sending multiple first-round picks to New York from Woj. Yeah, makes sense. Interesting, because after Rosillo was done with that point, I was going to point out that it just didn't seem

like an on-brand pick for the Knicks. Totally. I think Leon and Wes are under a lot of pressure. Like, this is basically... They have to get a star and they have to... The team needs to succeed and it seemed hard... Hard of pressure. This is basically, they have to get a star and the team needs to succeed

and it seemed hard to imagine Tibbs being like, hey, here's this young, raw guy. Can you mold him for the next couple of years? I think they want to win right away. This is a very OKC pick. It makes way more sense because OKC was one of the three teams.

I was talking with New Zealand this week and I was like, give me the teams that are the most on Usman and OKC was one of them three teams. I was talking with New Zealand this week, and I was like, give me the teams that are the most on Usman. And OKC was one of them. The Knicks were never mentioned. So, you know, because when I'd heard the Cleveland rumor, I'm like, I just don't, I think he's too much of a prospect to last until 14 because of the size. And he can handle, and the way he doesn't really get sped up,

you know, you double him, and he's like, all right, cool, I'll just pass over the top of you. He basically was two different players this season. He stunk in the first half of the season. He was terrific in the second half. He was clearly the Breakers' most talented player. And if you're an OKC fan and you really want to dig into this, watch him play Southeast Melbourne, I believe, the Phoenix.

He's insane in that game. And he's good defensively on the rotations, as KSC was talking about. So Rudy, how many times has Rosillo dropped? I was talking to New Zealand earlier this week in a conversation since you've known him. He's a big international guy. He loves race. You really are. You're like international Rosillo. You're like Austin Powers.

International man of mystery. People were calling me O2 Chad Ford for weeks. Because I like Jovich too And we haven't even talked about Pochita Yet so I was very Yugoslavian Chad Ford This year

I have a Jovich ruling for you guys I think he has to go with either Nick Or Nicky because the Jokic Jovich thing is just too fucking confusing And you know who's here first? Nikola Jokic So you've either thing is just too fucking confusing. And you know who's here first? Nikola Jokic. So you've either got to be Nick Jovic or you're going to be Nicky Jovic,

but you don't get to be Nikola. You got to give it up. I'm sorry. I'm going to screw that up for the next 10 years. It's too hard. Or he's got to throw a middle initial in there like Michael B. Jordan just to mix it up. It's got to be something like that.

Yeah, if he has one, you got to put that in. So what do you think? The whole point of OKC just stockpiling all these extra picks is so Presti can just get excited during the draft and overpower somebody to out of Duke. Maybe Jalen Duran as well. Memphis Center. Those are the names I've heard connected to the Knicks when they were at 11. So I'd expect one of those two at 12. Charlotte's going to get one of those big guys.

They want Duran or Mark Williams either at 13 or 14 or 13 or 15. But since Cleveland has 14 and they have a whole bunch of bigs, they probably let that big fall to 15 then again the team could trade up to 14 who knows we could take both could take both

platoon situation try to go one for two that was always my strategy with the QBs yeah so OKC Chet Poku and Dang frontline we're so low what do you think he might replace SGA as a point guard Chet, Poku, and Dang front line, Rosillo?

What do you think? He might replace SGA as a point guard. No, he's... I mean, he's not ready. It would surprise me if he's in, but I think you would see flashes from him a little bit. Sounds like the perfect OKC pick. He's that ready. So, Woj just said the Thunders still have the 12th pick.

It's not part of the Knicks trade. So the Knicks traded out of 11, or it's a more complicated deal. And they just took Jalen Williams out of Santa Clara at 12. So OKC in this draft has already gotten Chet Holmgren, Usman Jang, and Jalen Williams. And I am in love with what they're doing right now. So I told Kyle, man, we were Jalen Williams, and I am in love with what they're doing right now.

So I told Kyle, man, we were texting about Williams, and I wish there was a way to bet on it. There were no Jalen Williams odds that I could find, but I just thought he was going to end up in the lottery. Too good. Roussel is a little more lukewarm on him. He tested really well athletically. And we're also talking about a dude who's 6'6", just under 6'6",

and has a 7'2 plus wingspan. So if we're talking length records here, OKC's going for it. All wingspan team. He's really good. And he you know, his playmaking, you you know i always kind of default to

like oh you've got the ball a lot but you can pass and you're a willing teammate like that means a lot to me and he has that kind of stuff but even though he tested really well athletically i'm not sure that's what i saw from the player and maybe it doesn't matter but i i don't know how you feel about it koc because some guys are like no no look at all the testing look at all that stuff i was like i you know i went through it i watched him and i i didn't always i think it was he was a much more impressive intelligence player than it was necessarily the physical stuff i just think with jalen williams at santa clara the last two years he led that team in assists he was asked to be a creator it's kind

of like you were talking about with johnny davis earlier something that he had to do but he shot 44 on catch and shoot threes as a junior improved every year as a shooter really clicked for him as a junior came off screens handoffs like that dude's a smart player and applied off the ball too so multi-positional defender you hope as he grows into his body with six'6", long wingspan, a good spot-up shooter who can do a little bit at the least off the dribble. He can make the right pass. He can play for others. He's unselfish. And maybe if the scoring

ability continues to develop, he can run some pick and roll for you, be an ISO scorer. So I think it's an upside selection, even though he's 21 years old, because there's a floor for him to at least be a 3 and d type of player around sga and everything else that okc team has and also provides upside as a late blooming prospect in college and maybe in the nba too he also this is a high number almost 40 of his

possessions were pick and roll ball handler yeah when you're at like 40% on the position, like anything over 30 is a pretty dominant portion of your offense. And I think what led, this is the highest riser in the first round of any player in this draft from where he was. I didn't think he was great in the first combine game that I saw. Combine doesn't really mean shit. But he, I think what people like about him is that I can, I get these things and I don't have to actually have him play that position.

And he's a 7'2 plus wingspan. Cerruti, I have a lead for an ESPN segment for you. Are the Knicks stockpiling all these picks because they want to target Donovan Mitchell? That's next.

Because I'm sure the Knicks didn't love anyone in 11 but OKC's willing to pay 125 cents on the dollar or whatever to get into that 11 spot the Knicks get all these extra picks my guess is they're assembling some sort of war chest for somebody

so who is the somebody Kyrie I don't even think you need a lot of picks for Kyrie do you that's true who knows I don't know it seems't even think you need a lot of picks for Kyrie. Do you? That's true. Who knows? I, I don't know.

It's, it seems like they're, they're the team that would aim for Donovan Mitchell or an eight and there's somebody that would be awesome. And then they'd end up with it. Kyrie Irving, probably like three or four years too late and give up way too much in the process.

But I like the idea of it. I mean, yeah, like if I'm a Knicks fan, if I'm JJ right now, I'm going, what the hell is my team doing? Like we have,

if you're not going to have a pick this year, at least not have 11 or 12, you've got to come away with something interesting. So that makes me think, yeah, they're going after a player. Let's bring in JJ, and he's going to tell us what he thinks. I don't know, bro. I don't know. I don't know what they're doing, bro, unless you have those picks.

Damn it. I should have studied the JJ more. I did it better the last time. That's all you need. The bro is big. He says, JJ just cares about Aaron Judge.. Damn it. I should have studied the JJ more. I did it better the last time. That's all you need. The bro is big. He says, JJ just cares about Aaron Judge. That's it.

I think the Knicks are in, we need to overpower somebody and try to get a star mode. And I just don't know who that is. Yeah. Imagine doing that and Kyrie's the answer to what you're doing.

Like, I know what it would be like. It'd be awesome headlines. You'd be like, oh my God, we own the back page. You stuck it to the nets. It's Like, I know what it would be like. It'd be awesome headlines. You'd be like, oh my God, we own the back page. You stuck it to the nets. It's like, oh, okay, now what? So that's why the Kyrie.

I'm stunned by the, I don't get the, people talk about Kyrie like he's the Kyrie from 2016. And there's just, the evidence is just not there anymore for it. He can get there, you know, the random Orlando game where he hasn't played for a week and he puts up like 55-60 on somebody. But I thought the Celtics series, I would be, if I was training for Kyrie,

I would really watch those last three Celtic games pretty carefully. Have you heard any Celtics rumors, KOC? You think they're sitting this draft out? What are they doing? I've heard if they trade into the first round,

maybe Tari Eason out of LSU could be a guy they like. You guys like him, right? He's cool. I'm not inside him. He's fine. The analytics love him. I cannot believe he got the calls he got in college games.

I have a hard time believing that an NBA ref is going to go, oh, he just barreled into everybody and got the free throws. I get like the block against Alabama. He blocks a game-winning shot and blocks it, goes coast to coast and scores to win the game. So some people really like him. And like I said, the numbers really like him.

But offensively... Well, wait a second. If he barrels into people, he sounds like he's the perfect addition to the Celtics team. That was their entire offense the last two rounds. Just people dribbling into three other people. People like him.

I'm in the minority on him. So, you know, I could be wrong. What do we have? Who's Charlotte taking, KFC? I don't think we know yet, do we? We don't have that pick? Charlotte keeping it under the vest? I don't believe so, no.

No, but you're right about the Cleveland thing. Do you take Mark Williams just because you're fearful that Cleveland could actually trade it and screw up your whole plan if they had their eyes on Usman? To this point, with Durant. Durant too, yeah. Durant's still in the mix here where I got to think we're getting close to his floor.

For the most part, I mean, Jalen, it's not a total shock that he went in, but, you know, somebody else has bounced out here. I'm just trying to think, like, how many other names. I don't know if Charlotte tries to get cute with this and think they can get Williams 15 just kind of calling Cleveland's bluff,

but that's where it gets a little scary when you're going through this process being like, well, they're not going to take him with Jarrett and Mobley. Yeah, but if this was a fantasy draft, I would take A.J. Griffin here because I would assume that's the guy Cleveland not going to take him with Jarrett and Mobley. Yeah, but if this was a fantasy draft, I would take A.J. Griffin here because I would assume that's the guy Cleveland was going to take if I didn't take him. So I could get A.J. Griffin

and then get my choice of bigs at 15. Is that the move? I think that's the reasonable thing to do because if you take Griffin at 13, you're guaranteed one of those two bigs at 15. Yeah, and probably both. Well, not guaranteed, though. Right, because Cleveland could take one, not guaranteed though. Right.

Because Cleveland could take one, but I don't know. I would be surprised. You know what I'm saying? You would be guaranteed one of the two. Like if you take, if you take Griffin at 13,

only one of them can go at 14 before your pick at 15. I just, there's plenty of stories where teams got cute and then it was like, ah, we like Mark Williams way more, more but this is where you know

you got to trust your information and it doesn't mean even the information you have is right because you know the pick is in they're taking jaylen duran at number 13 so they're not risking it they don't have a coach but they have a 13th pick i think the coach situation with them has been one of the weirder under-the-radar basketball stories in a while. First of all, their season ended two months ago and they still don't have a coach as usual.

But then the Atkinson thing not working out and then having to go back to Dantoni. Like, hey, how you doing? Did you see the Clifford rumor today? I love it. Yeah. Oh, man. It's Rudy.

I love it. I actually don't think. It's Rudy. I love it. I actually don't think he's that bad of a coach, but I don't think so either. I don't know, but I get why that would be such an underwhelming thing if you're a Hornets fan. I mean, granted, you know, there's a lot of underwhelming things about being a Hornets fan. Could they hire Borrego back? They should have never fired him. Yeah, he'll play Zeller and Plumlee

ahead of Duran. That's what he'll do. So the big... Man, there's been a lot of weird shit in this draft. I can't wait. We're going to stop after pick 15. And then we're going to come back after the first round for winners and losers.

But it's weird. OKC feels like they went all in a little bit, but at the same time, they didn't go all in in a way that would inadvertently propel them into the playoffs. They went all in on a ton of potential and weird size OKC stuff and all the things that we've kind of known them for the last couple of years. But I don't feel like it really damaged their chance to get our guy Vic from France, KOC. No, they didn't damage their chances of being bad next year. They're just

going to be long, lengthy. I love what they did, Bill. I love this OKC roster. I mean, no offense to the Magic Cerruti, but I'm taking OKC with their amount of young guys that they have over anybody else in the NBA for best young core and not to mention

all the draft picks they have upcoming as well. Jang and Williams, those two guys getting them back-to-back 11 and 12. I mean, we'll see how these guys develop over the course of time, but everybody that they selected so far tonight, all three picks, they can play with Giddy and SGA. I know you're... They have a trade.

A trade. Jalen Dern to the Knicks. Hornets traded him. Do we know the full package on the OKC Knicks thing? Wait. No, Pistons are getting Duren at 13. Schaub says the Hornets are getting him and Woj says the Pistons

are getting him. Huh. Oh boy. Oh wow. This is it. We're fighting head to head. They're battling. Does that mean he has to sit out the year? Oh, source confirms Knicks are acquiring Jalen Dern from, is it Dern or Duran?

It's Dern, right? Dern. I really want to call him Duran, but my pronunciation dyslexia is trying to force me there, but I know it's Dern. Okay, so it looks like, wait, so,

so Woj has the Pistons getting him, Shams has it's during. Okay, so it looks like... Wait, so Woosh has the Pistons getting him. Shams has the Hornets getting him. And then Ian Begley says the Knicks are getting him. I don't know if you've seen this before. A three-way? Yeah, I don't know. A three-way. Two people are going to be wrong.

And we'll find out, but... Yeah, Shams hasn't corrected it yet. Well, neither has Woosh. Why would the Pistons want him? Maybe they don't want to get Aiton for 30 plus million. Why not?

I just don't understand. But you got to spend it on somebody. 120 million for four years for Aiton. I'm doing that every time. First year. How about Miles Bridges? Last year's is exp How about Miles Bridges? Miles Bridges?

It could be Bridges or unless you're waiting, like we said before, absorbing somebody else's cap hit. I'm sorry. Is it okay if I don't want to pay Miles Bridges $30 million a year? Would you rather pay him or Aiton 30 plus? Aiton.

I love your Aiton stuff right now because I felt like he's Q. Aiton made the finals. Q rating's way too low. I don't get it. I like them. I like some of the stuff he was doing in the New Orleans series. I think that Suns season just got weird.

We don't know what happened with the COVID stuff. There's an alternate universe where they don't have the COVID thing and maybe they just beat Dallas and maybe they beat Golden State and they beat Celtics. I don't know. Dallas picked a Bajie out of Kansas at 14.

Who took him? Cleveland at 14. That's a nice one. Not a big fan, Ryan? First of all, going back and watching that big fan, Ryan? I think he is. First of all, going back and watching that Kansas team,

that team was so freaking smart because it's not even a top five talented Bill Self Kansas team. Yeah. They might not even be top 10. They win a title. Watching all those guys

individually and seeing how well they played together, how smart they were, it was awesome. But Abaji just always left me wanting a little bit more. Maybe he hits that three and D.

He's actually one guy, I get so sick of, oh, three and D. It's like, well, when's he going to get the three part? These long dudes that play a little defense that don't make any threes. Abaji, I think, gives you that, but I still need somebody. Maybe it's just them bringing Sexton back. And I don't think the Levert thing ever works, but for them to be better, they need another on-ball creator offensively. And maybe it happens in another transaction. I just don't know if Obagi has enough of that in him. Do you disagree, Casey? No, I'm with you.

I bumped him down my board to around 20. I like him, just don't love him. So I have a theory, because there's a lot of confusion about this Jalen Duren thing. It sounds like it. And that the Knicks are acquiring him. Woj is now saying he's ultimately

going to end up on Detroit. It feels like the Knicks might have acquired Jaden Ivey, is my working theory here. Because if they got a bunch of picks from OKC, the which one? Kemba's going to Detroit too. That's part of your theory.

Well, so, if they got a bunch of picks for 11 and then they traded one of them for 13 for Durin and then they're doing some sort of deal with Detroit. It makes me wonder, did they Godfather offer Detroit for number five for Ivy? It's conceivable. We know they liked Ivy.

I'll tell you who'd be happy, JJ. I mean, Toppin could be in that trade. Right. A future first rounder, et cetera, et cetera.

We'll find out. Who's the 15th pick? Do we know before we go? We don't know yet. If you're the Knicks, are you happier with Ivy or would you rather trade a bigger package for Donovan Mitchell? I'd still rather take Mitchell just because I know that it's happened

and it's happened at an all-star level and he's played in playoff games. So I can love Ivy, but there's something to me when you're still really young and I've actually seen you do it at a really high level and arguably be one of the 15 best players

in the league all the time. I'm going to have a hard time not trading a draft pick for that. Here's my answer. If I think I might get fired in a year if my team doesn't get better, it's Mitchell. You're right, though. If I'm doesn't get better, it's Mitchell. You're right though.

If I'm being an evil genius and it's like, hey, we've rebuilt this and Ivy's going to be the guy and just, you got to give this a couple of years. Now I get to stay in that job. So I would probably take Ivy

if I was worried about getting fired. That'd be my pick. Do you have any more part cops? Before we go. Actually, but do we want to save those for part four? Yeah, we should save those for part four. Give us one.

Give us one more. Well, he compared Matherin to OG Ananobi and people are just saying that makes absolutely zero sense. Oh my God. That's not... There's one that I want to tease.

There's worse cops. I don't want to say the best one. I don't want to say the best one. I don't want to say the best one. Do we have a 15th pick yet? Nope. You know what? You were right, Bill. You're driving this ship.

I made you stick around for another one because I wanted to see if it was Mark Williams to kind of round out what they were doing. And I screwed up the whole vibe here the last couple of minutes. That's on me. And that's what leaders do. I don't feel like you screwed up anything.

I don't know. I feel like it's been dead for two minutes. Oh, so now they're saying my theory was wrong. I'm glad we stayed on. Now they're saying they use Jalen Duren, move them to the Pistons to dump the Kemba Walker contract so they could make the Jalen Brunson offer because they needed to shed salary,

which is hilarious because they never should have signed Kemba Walker in the first place. They could have just asked anyone to watch any Celtic game. And now... Okay, now the Pistons are sending the Hornets the 2025 first-round pick they got from Jeremy Grant. This is so confusing.

You know what? We're going to... Yeah, let's stop talking. We'll come back for Winners and Losers. Yeah, let's stop talking. When we do Winners and Losers Part 4, we are going to figure out all this. Thanks to Russel and KFC.

Thanks to Saruti. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, as always, for producing. And we'll see you a little bit later for Winners and Losers Part 4. a little bit later for winners and losers part four.