The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Draftapalooza, Part 4: Winners + Losers With Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor to discuss a long list of winners and losers from the first round of the NBA draft. Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. The BS Podcast is presented by FanDuel and FanDuel Sportsbook. We did three parts of our draft of Palooza 2021.

We did one before the draft about the Westbrook trade, a couple other things. Then we did live pods for which we also ran on Greenroom as well. For the first six picks, that was part two. And then pick seven through pick 15,

which included Golden State and a couple really strange picks. And now this is part four, winners and losers. Coming up, Rosillo, KOC,

first Pearl Gym. All right, taping this. It is 8.15 Pacific time, Thursday night. A bizarre draft. The first round has just concluded. The second round is going to be going on as we do this. Rosillo is here. KOC is here. We're going to play a little game of winners and losers. We talked about some of this stuff in the part two and part three,

but we're just going to do it again. But before we do this, can we talk about how broken this ESPN telecast is where you find out all the picks now a good four or five minutes beforePN telecast is where you find out all the picks now a good four or five minutes before the telecast and there's really no reason to watch the telecast to find out who gets picked. And on top of it, nobody in the arena seems to know

A, who's picking for who. If there's been a trade, the Knicks move back twice. All the Knicks fans are celebrating because they think they got Kai Jones and stuff like this. You have Perkins talking about Phoenix, how

sharp is going to look, the center from North Carolina on Phoenix's team and giving them the... Meanwhile, they traded that pick eight hours ago. KOC, how do we blow this up and start over? Can we start over as just this antiquated format that now no longer works?

What happens? So I was tweeting tonight with Bobby Marks from ESPN, former front office executive, because I said, like the NBA, they got to do something here. Like it's a poor experience for people in the arena, for people watching on TV. And he said, it's the team's fault because, you know, they're leaking stuff before they're calling the league office so woj and shams and all these guys are reporting it my thing is this can't we get rid of protocol for one night and just forget the rules for one night and maybe have adam silver also go off of what woj and shams are saying for one night for one night so we can you know get have a better tv better in arena and a better experience for the players and their families as well so they know where they're going and there's no confusion or just i don't know i i wish the draft the nba draft were more enjoyable the nfl draft and nhl

draft they do it much better on the night of and the nba has to do better like these things matter like the aesthetics and like the the viewer enjoyment matters in terms of like getting people to love the league. Yeah, it's weird. You don't even really need to watch the telecast anymore. You could literally watch the draft on Twitter. You could listen to us on Greenroom and got the picks three, four minutes at a time.

I'm wondering, maybe they don't announce the picks anymore. Maybe you have Adam come out and announce four at a time. Maybe once, as soon as we don't pick, like Rhys Davis just woes, just breaks it on the telecast. And that's how we find out who got picked over the whole concept of guys walking up. I, I don't really know how to fix this, but I'll tell you this, the experience is, is broken.

What do you think? Four or five at a time is not cool because i mean it's still a kid's moment realizing his dream and now all of a sudden you're like hey what's up dude like yeah all right you stand here you're i know you're just i know you're just throwing things out as you're trying to figure out like what i would ask is okay what's the most important thing because if you're woj and your shams what this is your night now to go at each other and that is kind of what's felt like it's the most important part and that's also why Woj is no longer on the main desk, because I think he is going through it, making sure he's breaking all this stuff,

because that seems to be the most important thing right now. What I would like to find, because I don't know how to fix that part of it, what I would like to find is, isn't there a production way where Woj can then get everybody on the desk up to speed? So as soon as he has it he's he's pointing to a pa and then you know it's it's in a prompter for reese davis so that we don't go through the deal where you have perk talking about sharp and how he's helped helping the depth for the phoenix

suns i mean perk got so frustrated he actually i think he said jesus christ after like he got done doing his darren sharp breakdown pho, Monty Williams, the whole deal. And then it's like, yeah, actually, I mean, he should have remembered that one. But it's hard when it's so many different things going on. So I think from I think the only thing that I think is a simple fix, at least is for the broadcast side of it. Woj and Shams are just going to get this stuff. They're going to get it before the league can do it.

You can't have them announce the picks because there's still some formality of the league part of it. But I think that the production side can just say, hey, look, we got to kind of update the rules can do it. You can't have them announce the picks because there's still some formality of the league part of it. But I think that the production side can just say, hey, look, we got to kind of update the rules for this thing. And as soon as Woj has it, then tweet while he's telling the PA, hey, guys on the desk, this is actually the deal. This actually started the two years I did the draft. And the second year, I remember I had my BlackBerry and I was looking at Twitter to see what the picks are going to be before Stern.

And then we would sometimes be talking about it. And I remember I tipped off a couple just because I saw it on Twitter. I knew, you know, if you're on the booth and you know who's going to get picked, but you have to pretend you don't know who's going to get picked. Like that's a bad place to be in, too. The whole thing, maybe it's broken. Maybe there's just no way to have this too the whole thing maybe it's broken maybe there's just no way to have this work do you remember the year goodman he he had someone like in the queue

apparently like he's never talked to me about it but it was like having somebody at the panama canal tell you the order of the boats like he's on a walkie talkie and goodman just got everyone right before everybody else because he had somebody and it wasn't it wasn't like he got it from every team he clearly had somebody who was getting him in because i've i've worked on five drafts and we had gotten the pick minutes before it was announced right and radio is a little easier because they can hand you a card you can look at it i mean there's just certain rules that you don't have to follow for television but i think from a product from a television product standpoint that might be the only way to fix it

because the other stuff, I don't know if it can be fixed. I'd love, like KOC said, you know, do we have to keep giving guys the wrong hats when everybody in the room knows that's not what's going to happen? But then being in attendance too,

like the Knicks fans are going nuts because they think Keon Johnson fell to him and like five minutes later. They thought they took Kai Jones too. They had no idea they traded that one either. It was pretty weird. It was a weird experience. And it didn't totally overshadow

a really fun and entertaining draft. But it's just weird to watch something where you know pick after pick what happened three, four minutes before it actually happens. All right. We're going to play a game called Winners and Losers.

So that was one of my losers. But winner. I made my list. It's between Orlando and Houston for biggest winner of the night. KOC, who do you have? Orlando or Houston? Houston. I mean, you get Jalen Green at two.

We talked a ton about him. Goes without saying. But getting Alperin Shengun in the middle of the first round, great low post player, tons of potential to extend his range to three. I think in that system, like with Jalen Green, it's going to be fantastic. And not only that, getting Garuba in the 20s, a guy that many people projected and expected to go into the late lottery. Like, look at their frontcourt rotation now. You have Shengengoon who's an interior post player you have christian wood who can space the four to three and be a lob

threat and then you have garuba who's your defensive oriented guy switchable can defend multiple positions and then on offense as well he can pass a little bit he's a good interior passer short roll playmaking i think the cohesion and the fit amongst all those guys, there's no overlapping skills. They just kind of complemented and enhance each other. So I love what Houston did. And then Josh Christopher, their last first round pick of the four. And, you know, Saul.

That should have been Cam Thomas. Yeah, I would have liked to see them go in a different direction there, but still doesn't change the fact they're a winner and, you know, taking a shot on a guy who can be a good scorer for you. I like the idea of it. Houston is my big winner of the night. I was looking at Hollinger's kind of... I was reading

your draft grades, KOKC, and then Hollinger's draft grades. And it was... After each one, it was like who they should have picked. And starting like pick seven, it was Sengun for each. Sengun, pick eight. Sengun.

And it was just like that was the guy. And then he finally ends up getting 16. Russillo couldn't help but notice that was the slot that the Celtics traded away to get rid of Kemba Walker, which is just the Kyrie nightmare that just keeps on paying for itself. Kemba's the consolation prize after Kyrie kicks him in the nuts. They have to trade him two years later. They have to add the 16th pick to it.

And then Shang-Goon, who really seemed like the best player left. And then there was a drop off really after him. Houston trades up. They trade two picks. OKC ends up getting two picks for a pick that they basically got just to do this Kemba Horford swap. So I was bummed out by that. But

Rosillo, does that roster that Houston have now, does it break your brain? Christian Wood, Shengun, our guy Garuba, Jalen Green, John Wall, Christian Wood. What's going on? How do you see that all colliding?

Because there's all of a sudden, like, a decent amount of talent there. I don't know if I'd go as far as, I mean, unless Jalen Green turns into somebody. And usually, although we've had some incredible development stories the last couple of years between Giannis, Kawhi, you know, Siakam to a lesser extent. But, I mean, we've seen some things with later picks and these guys doing stuff that we're just not used to. I mean, normally the guys that run this league are guys that we expect to run the league coming out of the draft. But if Jalen's

one of those guys, we'll probably know pretty soon, I would think. And I think everybody else that's on this roster that wasn't drafted tonight is probably not part of their future for the next two years. I mean, who is? I mean, Kevin Porter Jr., I know he can score buckets, but that team was a mess. I mean, that team was trying to lose every game. To their credit, they were. So I don't look at any

of those guys. And honestly, like the Christian Wood stuff, I know he's really, really talented. I don't know if he's the personality that's a long-term fit with teams. I don't know that he's I think he's kind of about himself, and he's incredibly talented. What? I know. I know KOC loves him.

No, no. this is a dream dream shake the dream shake blog is aggregating this i can just feel it well here's the thing we're still a question is christian wood all right i'm just with christian wood i mean you get shengun you get garuba doesn't he become expendable now because he is like you know despite the flaws you're detailing there ryan now he could become a guy that you maybe you flip to a contender for more picks or a wing or a guard whatever it might be but i think wood if you want to keep him great if you want to trade him he's way more expendable now than he was in the morning koc do we like garuba and sengoon together shengoon i'll never get this right yeah we like those two as a combo like them playing on the court at the same time. I mean, one of them will have to

absolutely develop a reliable three-pointer. Shengun, it's theoretical. Like you're talking about, he's shown step-back threes, mid-range pull-ups, good free-throw shooter, good touch inside. I have a high level of confidence

he will be able to become a three-point shooter. With Garuba, it's a little bit more iffy. He doesn't have great touch. He's a below-average three-point shooter. He's gotten a little bit better. He's basically Jan Mihiny. Yeah, he's the interior guy. You hope Shengun is the versatile guy.

I remember the Shengun Turkish League stats. I remember when Rossello lit up the Turkish League back in 2003, your career year there. And people were like, well, it's the Turkish League. But you were playing against good guys that year. Yeah, and I'll tell you well, it's the Turkish league, but you were playing against good guys that year. Yeah. And I'll tell you, stay away from the Turkish hash.

That's a good, good idea. Well, Houston, the James Harden. It's a great league though. No, it's a really good league.

It's third best one. When you're that young, when an MVP, I like, look, I like him. There's nothing that you watch there. Cause the guy's a bit of a badass about it.

You know what I mean? Like he wasn't afraid of anybody. I mean, to accomplish what he accomplished is incredible. I like him here so much more as like, hey, let's see what happens than say some of the times where I was hearing him at the highest end at like eight, nine, or 10. Because, you know, like I always say with these bigs,

if I'm already drafting a big who I can't keep on the floor to close the game, and that's kind of what he looks like defensively, we could probably promise this too. If Andrew's still in charge of the Celtics, you wouldn't have to worry about missing out on him because he just doesn't like the foreign guys. Sure.

Good point. And he's, he's also the single biggest complainer of any of my draft prospects. So I have him ranked number one. Oh, he's just on your board in a bunch of different ways. Yeah. Yeah.

Biggest complainer I've ever seen. We don't have to go to a break, but I would love to go to a break. Oh, coming up. I'll tell you why the Rockets have a rookie of the year candidate and it's not Jalen Green. Orlando is our other big winner. I just can't believe how it worked out for Orlando. I don't think their fans can believe it where the situation where they always get the raw guy, the potential guy, the guy who, oh, he's incredible except for the fact that he's missing his left hand or he can't shoot or there's always some sort of flaw and they just get Suggs who I think we all really like. I don't know if he will be a five-time all-NBA guy, but I think he could be an all-star.

And then Wagner, who I just think is a really solid player, who, worst case scenario, can play for a good team. And he could be, I think, somewhere between the fourth through seventh ranking guy on a team that succeeds. You could see him eight years from now, like, on the Jazz or a team like that, just being

really effective. But this is the first time I felt good about an Orlandolando draft kscd you can't say the same because you you were covered in mobama kool-aid a couple years ago but very true but what an unbelievable turn of events for orlando right that's my second winner tonight yeah orlando is definitely one of the one of my couple of winners tonight jalen suggs talked about him a ton like kevin clark and all the magic fans out there have to be ecstatic about him but vogner

at eight as well because there was a lot of talk heading into draft night that maybe orlando moves this pick there's a lot of uncertainty about what they would do there because there was some thought that at seven golden state could go with vogner getting him in eight getting two guys who can help you right away we know the magic want to try to compete and be competitive out there, so adding those guys to this group, hopefully Jonathan Isaac can get back, stay healthy, and continue ascending upward like he did prior to

the injury every season of his career. Because if you add him to this mix with Wagner and Suggs, I mean, the Magic could have something brewing there. Finally. The three of us all like Isaac, correct? I like his talent. I don't know if he's ever going to put it together.

The ACL injury wasn't helping. Yeah, love his defense. Offense still have some questions. Yeah, I just love, you know, out of Florida State, you're going, wait a minute, what can this guy do with the ball and like the handling and some of that stuff? I mean, it's kind of weird.

It's not the same as Scotty Barnes, but there's some similarities of like, I can't believe this guy is this big and can operate the way that he does but i want to go over it real quick because orlando we mentioned in one of the other pods the unlucky slotting and how it turned for him tonight but if you go back to the mb draft it's wiggins parker i know he didn't work out and beat and then the fourth picks orlando and it's like oh it's aaron gordon like bit of a drop off there from aaron gordon um the next year it's carl anth, it's Aaron Gordon. Like, bit of a drop off there from Aaron Gordon. The next year, it's Carl Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Jaleel Okafor,

Przingis goes fourth, and they end up with Mario Hazonia. Oof. Orlando, after that, ends up with, that's when they moved, actually, that was the Sabonis deal. So then, one other one, yeah, Orlando, like, you know, De'Aaron Fox goes right in front of him.

You know, granted, Josh Jackson flamed out. But just every time they were drafting in the lottery, De'Andre Ayton, Bagley, Donchitz, Jaron Jackson, Trey Young, Mo Bamba. Right. This is half the last decade, basically. They always seem to be the pick behind the guy you would want, maybe from the entire class. Well, great job by them. On top of it, the Vooch trade looks awesome now.

Because, you know, it allowed them to bottom out a little bit more. They end up with the fifth pick. They also get the eighth pick from Chicago. They still have another pick coming. And Vooch, like, you know, what was Vooch going to do? They were going to go 43 and 39 every year, so great job by them. Hey, do you know how some folks are quick to doubt

the rookies or even understate their excellence coming to the league? Make no mistake, this is their time to shine and show out with career-defining moments on that court. Who do you think, out of these rookies, if you had to pick, let's do this quick, a rookie that we kind of overlooked tonight

who you could see being really awesome, who would you pick, KOC? Probably somebody in the 10 to 25 range. Yeah, let's go to the number 27 spot, Cam Thomas. I don't think we might have overlooked him, but I think teams overlooked him. Having him fall all the way to the Brooklyn Nets at 27. It's not like they need scoring and that's what Cam Thomas does best.

But the fact is, is that you add another guy into that mix for the inevitable situations when Harden's out with a hamstring, when Kyrie's out for whatever reason, when Katie's resting. Now you have Cam Thomas who can come in and supplement scoring. And for him to earn consistent minutes in this next rotation next to their stars, he's going to have to be held accountable. He's going to have to be committed on defense.

So I think this will be great for his career to be with the Brooklyn nets. And for them, like he can cover a lot of bases when those guys are out. I love it. Well, I agree with you. And I think Brooklyn is a winner because that Rosillo, uh,

Cam Thomas, 12 picks too late, 10 picks too late eight picks no I'm okay I'm okay with him going later yeah you know I I thought it was kind of funny when it was like you know people talked about his attitude like yeah because people did talk about his attitude like they couldn't believe like hey I'm just here to get buckets like I don't want to pass I'm not gonna play defense they get 16 games with one or zero assists but he can light it up and his metrics are off the charts the guy lives at the free throw line. Cam Thomas with a bad team,

bad habits, getting buckets, I don't know. Now with the Nets, now it's perfect. Now it's perfect for him. Just be Jordan Clarkson for us. I really like what the Nets did here considering how strapped they are and now depending on whatever these extension decisions

will be with all three of those guys, who by the way, they're just going to keep them. It's just a matter of like, do we pay you now? Do we pay you a little bit later? What do you guys want to stay available for? How are you guys going to try to work the scheduling contracts and extensions? So I don't think there's much mystery there, except that it's going to cost a ton. So now when you have De'Ron Sharp, who, you know, look, he does a lot of things for a big guy and he can kind of he's comfortable with the basketball in his hands. But the pressure

on these two players is so much less and the freedom that they'll have because no one's ever going to be paying attention to him um i think thomas is maybe a tougher fit and maybe doesn't have the right start to his career somewhere else but for the nets it's a total win well they were overlooked tonight at the draft but they're not going to be overlooked when they're in a playoff series and they're the seventh and eighth guys on a playoff team. So stay tuned. That's a wrap. Just like these rookies won on the court, you can win with your insurance by getting

the personalized service of a local agent, all for a surprisingly great rate with State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. I had Brooklyn as a winner tonight. Your goal basically was what we were saying for Golden State. Come out with two guys who can play next year in a playoff series. I feel Brooklyn as a winner tonight. Your goal basically was what we were saying for Golden State. Come out with two guys who can play next year in a playoff series. I feel like they did.

I think we all like Sharp. KFC, you talked me into him. Somebody did on that Sunday pod where I was saying how it made me nervous that he got in such great shape for the workouts, but on the flip side, it's like, hey, that's a good sign at least that he got in shape during a pandemic season.

So they might have gotten two guys that can actually play in a playoff series, which is the goal. There was some thought that he might go in the late teens. When people were talking about San Antonio, Charlotte, some of those teams moving down to the 20th pick with Atlanta, the thought was that Sharp could go there. So for Brooklyn, they didn't even have to trade up to get him. Getting him at 29, major potential steal for the Nets.

Well, that was one of my losers is just big guys. We talked about this on Sunday too. Why do I have to take Kai Jones at 11 if I'm Charlotte when no big guys should ever go in the lottery? Everybody just wants scorers and 3 and D guys and these 6'10 defensive guys who could move around. Big guys you can find anywhere. You can get Montrezl Harrell for a year from some team as a thrown on a trade for 9 million bucks. And we saw it tonight. Shangoon falls all the way to 16.

And then that was kind of when the big guys started going and that you saw Isaiah Jackson get taken all that stuff. But it just seems like to be a big guy, the days of like Jackson Hayes going eighth in an NBA draft, I just think are over. Unless you have a chance to be a potential all-NBA center, you're not going in the top 10 in the NBA draft.

I think it's too easy to find big guys and there's not enough minutes for him, honestly. I liked Charlotte tonight obviously because of the Booknight part of it. Me too. I'm falling to him. I do wonder if there's the off-the-court incident with Booknight, if people were like, obviously because the book night part of it and me too i'm falling to him i do wonder you know if there's the off the court incident with book night if people were like hey you know if that if that

had anything to do with it i mean look he was just a person of interest in a campus car accident i guess he left the scene and maybe it's a big misunderstanding who knows um i don't know i can just tell you what i read like everybody else but kai was in play where they got book night i mean that's one of the high side of Kai Jones that I had heard. And so look, Kai Jones, the first time you watch him, I joke that when he's drafted,

you'd watch these clips and go, what the hell? Yeah. Come this guy didn't go five. I mean, is that Bill Russell? Yeah. And he can shoot.

So he's six 11, but you know, this is a thing where the numbers, the shooting numbers look pretty good. I watched the clutch pro day thing he's got this weird almost disconnected body from the top the way he shoots it's like a weird hitch and the scary thing for him is that texas he actually started more games last year than this year and if you look at the way they used him minutes wise they started to play him less as the team had a better run bad Bad stats, too. Those are like things you go,

wait, this guy's supposed to go lottery? And they played him less as the season went along. I don't like when big guys don't put up numbers in college. At least get to eight rebounds a game. Listen, if they took him at 11, I wouldn't have liked it. They took him at 19, I kind of liked it. And just in general, I like what Charlotte did. They end up with the trade with the Knicks. They grabbed 19. I guess they gave up some sort of liked it. And just in general, I like what Charlotte did. They end up with the trade with the Knicks.

They grabbed 19. I guess they gave up some sort of future pick, but they're banking that maybe they won't ever be a lottery team again. Zach Lowe said it was big time protected. Big time protected. I think for the Knicks, the Knicks are probably thinking, we need assets. We'll have a trade to make at some point.

It's easier to trade a future pick that we haven't made yet versus this young guy who's toiling away on their bench. Other winners. Jalen Rose. Three Jalens in the top 20 tonight. The Jalen name success story just keeps going and going. He had two in the top five and three in the top 20. KOC, I wrote you down as a winner tonight. Big time. You hit this zone during green room. First of all, you started the top 20. KOC, I wrote you down as a winner tonight. Big time. You hit the zone during Green Room. First of all, you started the Green Room. You were doing draft grades.

You were on this podcast. You were in Slack. And you were also on Twitter alerting us on picks. I'm actually 50% convinced you've cloned yourself somehow. That there's a second KOC somewhere in Brockton who's just in this basement apartment with good wifi. And you've just managed to do it. Yeah.

I've had a twin this whole time, Bill. Yeah. You have. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not an only child. I have a brother,

Devin O'Connor. We should tell him. His nickname is KFC. Another winner, Sam Presti. He cut off. He just, Sam Presti. He cut off... He just... I'm not sure.

Honestly, I'm not even sure anymore. I also have him in losers. So just so you know, I'm going to say for the winner's part, the Sam Presti mystique, if Sam Presti was a verb, you would have said he Sam Presti'd the hell out of the draft today.

Took a guy at six who might, for all we know, might be a bust. We have no idea. He looks great on paper. He's classic. They could talk about this weird international team they're building of these interchangeable guys. He trades the 16 for two firsts. The pick he got from Kemba Horford.

So he's got more picks. Everybody can make those jokes about that. Just for just staying in the mix as this quote-unquote inventive, out-of-the-box guy, I thought he did a good job. We're also going to get to him in the losers later because I didn't actually like what he did. Another winner, the Wiz. The Wiz had 15 and 22.

They took Kispert, 15, who's at least going to play as a rotation guy. And then they got Isaiah Jackson in 22, who I just like as an energy guy. I just feel like once you get past pick 20. They flipped him. They flipped Jackson to 31. Oh no, I feel like Perk. Who'd they flip him for? For Aaron Holiday in the

31st pick. Oh! I'm going to make them a double winner. I love Aaron Holiday. Yeah, good player. So who'd they get for 31? Isaiah Todd, I believe, was the pick at 31. Oh. I stand by them being a winner. As you guys both know, I've loved Aaron Holliday

for a couple years and have been waiting for him to do stuff. Well, anyway, they got rid of Westbrook. They had to trade a first with Wall's contract to get him got the first back got some rotation guys and at least they can make an honest

effort with Bradley Beal I think the goal for them Rosillo at least make the Bradley Beal thing not self combust before like February at least keep the car on the highway for another couple months. Can we just check into the reality

hotel here for a second and realize that there's no way that Beal was like 50-50 on his future with the Wizards, then saw tonight and went 70-30, I'm in. Beal's decision about the Wizards is about Beal. That's it. If he were going to be a guy that, hey, we don't have enough

around me, this is bullshit, he would have already forced his trade out. If he was going to be a guy that, hey, we don't have enough around me, this is bullshit. He would have already forced his trade out. I don't think there's a trade, though. I don't think they have the trade to make. I just don't think any of this stuff, which I agree with you. I love the holiday part of it. I don't think you were doubling down on something there. I look at

that deal and go, wait, Isaiah Jackson, but now you got it holiday and now you have a little bit more depth, especially. I wasn't sure about Aaron when he was coming out. And honestly, he's impressed me more and more every time I've watched him. So I actually really liked that addition, but I don't think the Beal decision, I think the lesson should be in that as I've been kind of hearing and saying all along is that he's way more content with the situation than the outside world seems to think. So I don't know that there's any addition or he'll look at the depth chart tomorrow going,

all right, now I want to do the extension. He may want to do the extension just because he wants to do the extension and get to five years a year from now anyway. I was thinking more addition by subtraction. Him playing a second year with Westbrook on a pretty flawed team, that if they started out slow again

and you worry about his trade value kind of what what happened with Harden a little bit with the Nets where the trade value couldn't quite get where they wanted it to get now it's like they'll be fine right they'll be somewhere between six and nine in the east at least for the first part of the season and they can kind of wait I don't know as much as we all agree on kind of who Westbrook is he was a big part of that push towards the end of the year you know he was and that's like that next level of a guy playing a bunch of bad teams though I don't know

wow I complimented him and you still wouldn't let it happen no I listen if we have a Westbrook a pissy about Westbrook off I don't know who wins between us we joked a pissy about Westbrook off. I don't know who wins between us. We joked once about doing a segment on a

Sunday pod where we would both select the other team, the other guys like worst possible starting five if he were the coach. And then we texted back and forth. It's like, well, whoever gets the number one pick. Yeah, it's almost not fair. Westbrook has to be off the table. It's already over. It's like the Lew Alcind Yeah, it's almost not fair. Westbrook has to be off the table. It's already over.

It's like the Lew Alcindor-Neil Walk coin flip. Westbrook has to be the starter. All right, so, KOC, based on what happened tonight, give me a trade date for Bradley Beal. If we were doing a Bradley Beal office pool,

and you had to pick, and there was big money at stake, what date would you pick um whatever is what like mid-january a couple dates a couple weeks before the trade deadline yeah i think that i would i would try to get like february 9th yeah so something along those lines because like ryan said there's a chance this it just doesn't happen like my understanding is beal is happy living in in Washington his family is happy living there yeah he wants to be there it's just a matter of if the Wizards can be good enough for him to want to be there and I think the deals I think it really could be addition by

subtraction because of the flaws with Russell Westbrook and because of the additions that they made tonight I like what the Wizards did this entire day I'm not sure how good they'll be but I'm not sure how good they were with, but I'm not sure how good they were with Russell Westbrook and the rest of that flawed roster. All right, we got to fly through these winners and losers because Nephew Kyle, for some reason,

booked a red eye to go back east tonight at midnight. So we have probably a half hour left of this pod, Max. I have a couple losers for you. Knicks fans, poor Spike Lee. How many times can he go to the draft and get excited about a pick

and then they trade it, but nobody in the building knows? It's just over and over again. It sucks. It's happened to Patriot fans. KFC and I can attest over and over again where it's like,

all right, we're up. Oh, we're not up. We just traded back 12 picks. So the Knicks did that twice. You learn to trust the Patriots, though. The Knicks fans don't have that trust. Yeah, they don't have the same trust. The Spurs did have the same trust with their fans,

but now I have them in the losers category. I think this is the summer of uh-oh with Pop. Team USA, yikes. At least so far. And then this Primo pick tonight. Rossell did a double take. I wonder if we have that on video. You thought I was kidding.

You did the come on. You did the look back. Yeah, you did like you threw back. You're like looking around for a TV like Josh Primo. You could not believe it. 22 would have been too high for him for you. I just liked other guards. I just did.

And a lot of these guys played against each other too. You could go through Jaden Springer and Sharif Cooper was a really weird player. And it seems like it's funny how sometimes your instincts and your gut on a player are like, I don't know, man, I don't know. And then you're talking to people and then the draft plays out that night and you're like, oh, maybe I got reaction about a guy like Sharif Cooper was right because his shot is a mess, like maybe the worst shot of any perimeter player that you're hoping to depend on. But so, you know, back to the primo thing, we have games and games. We have all these SEC league games of watching him not even look like he's close to these other players. And the Spurs went ahead and did it. And I do think it's a really interesting because they were they were the standard. They were the ones that found everybody. They were the ones that did the stuff that nobody else would do when they were right all the time.

And, you know, for them to have a bad roster now after like a 20 year run, I'm not going to get on their case about it. But I just don't think they've been great with the drafting. They don't have a lot of assets and anybody would be excited about. And I think the pop thing that could get really interesting one day, you know, Becky Hammond still hasn't gotten a job. If pop steps down, they have to give her the head coaching gig. We'll see how that goes. It'll be really weird if they were like, actually,

we're not doing that. There's a lot of stuff on the horizon. We've hired Stan Van Gundy. Sorry. We're taking a fake here. KOC, is it possible they didn't take Shangoon just because every mock draft had them taking Shangoon and they were like,

no, we'll show you. You don't understand us. Just spiting me and Hollinger and NBA Draft Twitter. With the Spurs, I wonder, did they have intel that OKC or somebody like that would have taken Primo had they moved down? Because there was

opportunities to move down and possibly still get Pr but like i wonder what was the intel because with primo i got it like 25 to 30 range i would have been very happy to draft primo raw player who can shoot threes maybe he turns into something for you but at number 12 i i just come away incredibly shocked that the spurs weren't able to find a trade down to gain more value within this draft. We know what the trade down was. We know the Knicks were offering 19 and 21 to everybody to try to get Duarte. So

basically they took Primo over having the 19th and 21 picks. If they just had those picks, you know, they could have taken, I don't know, Keon Johnson and Garuba. Or they could have taken Cam Thomas and Garuba, or I just, that's a team that needs assets. No, it's a great point by both of you, because even if you love Primo and we all end up being wrong, because you know, look, we're all,

all of us are wrong all the time. We're trying to project these guys and it's impossible. You can be really good at it, you can be terrible at it, but you're never going to be fucking perfect with it. All right. How could you not have the intel to know where the primo market started like yeah i mean unless you know look it doesn't mean that we know everything but to know that the knicks were throwing those two picks around and they did it anyway to go in a different direction i just like were you afraid somebody in the teens was going to grab primo okay see yeah okay it had to be them yeah presti probably told him. Another loser, Steph and Dre and Klay,

because they probably were thinking they were adding the final pieces to the puzzle, and instead they have Kaminga, who's about as projecty as it gets, and then Moses Moody, who's 19 years old, who is probably a little closer to playing than Kaminga in a playoff series. But unless those picks are for trade assets,

I guess we'll find out. A winner, though, is Golden State fake trades. I'll be on the trade machine later tonight, guys. The Kaminga-Moses Moody. That is like a bad signal for we're getting Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard. I'm sorry.

I just don't think you take those two guys. The first eight picks tonight, you were like, all right, so does that mean they trade Lowry? I had Fox on nine teams. Yeah, they're like, all right, so that pick at six, that's for somebody else. And I'd be like, I don't think you had everybody

trade. Are you coming out of writing retirement with 22 and a half Warriors trades? Maybe. That could get me. It's so enticing. Stupid question. Stupid question. Does Kaminga's number choice impact your decision on him as a prospect?

What did he pick? Double zero. Really? I didn't know that. I kind of like that. I got to be honest. I like it. Listen, I'll be following J. Mon Green's lead with Kaminga. I'll be very carefully reading all the Draymond Green quotes heading into the preseason,

during the preseason. The Warriors have probably more leaks all over the place than just about anybody with, with just like they have good relationships with all these different reporters and there will be the quotes. They'll be out there.

We'll know. We'll know pretty early on that one. Another winner, Kevin Clark. Just wanted to mention him one more time. An Orlando draft finally went well. Another winner, Shams Sarania seems like he kind of went right at Woj tonight,

toe to toe. It was, I don't know, give me an MMA analogy, Rusillo. What was it? Like a huge underdog, just laying in punches. He did a guillotine choke at some point i'm sorry but i've trained in the woge camp and we don't we just we don't worry about

all right we just don't you know we don't worry about competition koc was like dead even tonight right it seemed like it when we were recording live i wasn't sure who got it first but certainly seemed close tonight between woge and shams and shams got the Westbrook trade before Woj, too. Yeah, he did tonight, yep. That's pretty good. A lot of joy coming out of you two tonight. I just, I like competition. Competition's good for everybody.

Loser. Sacramento. As much as I like Mitchell, my immediate reaction was, what the fuck? And now we're two hours later and it's has not changed i just don't i i think look i don't think you should draft for need but i think at some point if your roster doesn't fit a player it's kind of irresponsible to draft the player they they already had the two guards they have right and um i don't know i still feel like this this to me is

a pick you make when you know you have some other move coming. And maybe it's Fox and Heal together. Who would that be for KOC? I mean, we talked about the Ben Simmons idea earlier. Bradley Beal? Kaminga? Tyler Harrow? Kaminga.

Yeah, throw that in the 22-hour Warriors trade idea. Listen, we've spent a lot of time over the years trying to figure out what the hell is going on in Sacramento and tonight is yet another night. I have no idea what they're doing. I can't wait to find out what they do.

I hope they trade Fox at some point. What if they're just like, hey, we think the new inefficiency is three ball handlers out there at all times. We've studied the league and this is where we think the league's going. Just screw defense. You know, it doesn't matter.

Yeah. Forget zone. And we're just going to beat everybody. Uh, we're spread out and it's just going to be a constant attack. Baggily protect the room. Another winner tonight. I thought by the way,

Davis Davis, I'm sorry to interrupt restricted free agents. So possibility, somebody throws a number at him. So there you go. They, they threw him the qualifying offer. I thought Mike Schmitz did a good job.

I only saw really the second part of the draft because we were doing Green Room the first part. But to have him in that seat where he's next to Reese Davis, but the other two guys are on the left. And it's doing that TV where you're on the swivel in the middle, I think is really hard. It's uncomfortable. You're always like going left, right, back, forth.

I thought he seemed really comfortable. I thought he think is really hard. It's uncomfortable. You're always like going left, right, back, forth. I thought he seemed really comfortable. I thought he did a good job. Mike's outstanding. He's great. He's really good. I really like him. He's really good. On the flip side, Perk.

Not sure about the Perk edition. Do we think Jay Williams called in sick? Eight hours before, what was going on there? That was normally a Jay Williams spot. Who knows? No comment. Yeah, no. He might have gotten hacked.

It was an interesting night for Perk. He definitely... He definitely... I like seeing him on TV. I just don't know if tonight was the spot for him. It's a tough... Look, if you go into that, the guys that shine are the guys

that do the work. Look, I've done it on radio with a million different people. Once you start getting picked like 17 or 18, and if you haven't done, I would probably be on more of the obsessive side,

but you got to almost have something on like 70 different guys to bring to the table because there's all these, these awkward pauses, but he's got the personality and all that stuff. It was his first year doing it, you know, but it's, it's a different deal than a seven minute segment on get up to be out there

for hours on end, having to have something to say about all of these players. And that's why a guy like Schmitz is just going to, you know, cause this is his deal. This is all he's doing year round year round so and billis does a good job of the it's just the draft show as you know depending on what role you want to play you almost always have to have a little default something for every single guy and it's a hard thing to do sandy aldama being the perfect example with the 30th pick and a lot of people thought he might go 55th. That's the one.

He goes first round. What was that? It was traded. That was such a weird pick, though. I remember Stephen A. There was a pick who was like 7th, and he went now. I ain't never seen him play

with this pick. I remember that. I was like, we're not even to 10 yet. Let's take a quick break, and then we have a couple more winners, losers, and then Kyle's going to break a speed record going to the airport. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey.

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meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. All right, come back. Couple more winners, losers. I put Suggs in the loser camp. But I also think he's in the winner camp. I think he's a loser because I think Toronto would have been an unbelievable team for him. I was actually bummed out for him that he didn't get to go to Toronto. I also think he's a winner

because now he has the chip on his shoulder that he thought he was going to Toronto. He assumed he was going to Toronto. Every MAAC draft had him going to Toronto. And then they're like, no, actually, we're going to take Scotty Barnes. And now he gets shoved to Orlando and he has to be the centerpiece of our building program.

So I have him as a loser and a winner, KOC. I like it in the sense that Toronto would have been great for him. But I mean, can be part of something new in Orlando. Build that team up. No state tax. No state tax. No state tax. That's a bonus too.

Don't bring up taxes. Another winner. The Pacers. Duarte, they just said, fuck it. We're taking Duarte. He's good. He's good at stuff. Bringing him in.

We got Rick Carlisle. He's proven 2011 title winner who hasn't won a playoff series since, but we're back, baby. Here we go. His 10-year drought's over. It feels like there's some sort of trade brewing with them, too.

Not to bring up trades again, but Brogdon or Turner. I just... Honestly, if I said... I was like, bet your life Brogdon and Turner will be on the Pacers next year would you bet your life on that I would not well Turner's been available for about a decade and right that was one of the things when the Celtics everybody got mad at him for not doing

the Turner deal yeah when they were going to lose Hayward I didn't get the Celtics asked everybody else hey are you interested in Turner and the entire league, no. We know he's been available forever. So if you guys, it doesn't mean just because you're now trading him that we're going to want to trade for him because we could have already traded with the Pacers. The weird thing about that Pacers roster is when it's right, I do kind of like it.

I mean, look, it's not challenging anybody, but the Karis LeVert part of it kind of changes who Brogdon is. TJ coming back, he's going to, that guy looked like Jerry West in the playoffs there for a little stretch last year. So, and then you have Sabonis, who you've heard rumblings all the time.

But, you know, look, there's a lot of rumblings that never really lead to anything. So I don't think your point is invalid by any stretch. I just like that Duarte, in almost any situation, could be plugged in. Because he busts his ass, he is engaged on every possession as any player that I watched like that Duarte in almost any situation could be plugged in because he busts his ass. He is engaged on every possession as any player that I watched in college this year. Every possession, he was like trying to figure out a way to make it work, whether it was with the ball,

off the ball, constantly cutting all that stuff. He's such an easy plug and play guy on top of just the shooting numbers. He's one of those guys who could be a success anywhere. Like you said, Ryan, it's very much unlike we talked about in the earlier pod. The guys drafted around him, younger guys, Primo, don't know if it's going to be a fit for him in certain situations. Or Jalen Johnson, saw him fall to 20 with Atlanta. I actually kind of like that pick. I mean, he's a loser in the sense that he fell to Atlanta all the way to 20

instead of being a top 10 pick like he hoped for. Yeah, but the fact is is that he gets trey young pick and roll partner and he also had a great quote tonight he said jalen john he was asked about who he compares himself to he says jalen johnson i'm in the league now so that's who i compare myself to but there's a lot of guys i looked up to of course lebron ben simmons those bigger playmaking guards i'm a a Jalen Johnson fan now. Third person quote. I'm always a big fan of those. I'm out.

I was out before. I'm more of the opposite. Yeah. I like them even less. Can we also, I forget who it was, and Twitter will remind us when we post this, but whoever the draft pick was that says he compares his emotions to the Hulk by being able to control them, I thought that could have been reworked.

Yeah. Who said that? The guy that drafted Rhys Davis is like, he says he models his emotions after the Hulk. That's pretty weird. A loser, the Timberwolves, where it's just like the finality of, oh my god,

somebody's using our seventh pick because we were trying to make Carl Towns happy for five minutes by taking another CA guy, and we threw in this pick, and we got rid of Wiggins, and now all of a sudden somebody else is picking seventh. If that had happened in the Celtics, I would have been out of my mind.

Are you fucking serious? This team's going to get Somebody else is picking seventh. That would, if I, if that had happened to the Celtics, I would have been out of my mind. I'm like, are you fucking serious? This team's going to get Kaminga set. What if Kaminga is, this is going to come back to haunt us. Um, another winner. More minutes for Jarrett Culver though.

Could this be the year? Uh, another winner, my dad, because I think if the Celtics were picking 16th and Kispert was still on the board at 15 and then he went, I think he would have been devastated.

My dad had Kispert on his list. A loser. I have two losers here from the Memphis area. One is the Grizzlies because I guess they're rebuilding now, KSC. You seem to think, but also like our guy, Chris Vernon, because he was always like chest popped out is the Grizzlies because I guess they're rebuilding now, KFC, you seem to think, but also like our guy Chris Vernon because he was always like chest puffed out about the Grizz. Better

watch out. Here we come. And now all of a sudden they're rebuilding and I don't know what to think. What do we think? Wait, what? Go ahead, KFC. I mean, a winner me because get to talk with Chris about it next Tuesday. I wonder if he'll be happy about it. We haven't texted at all.

But yeah, I can't imagine he's going to be happy about Santi Aldama with the 30th pick or Raw Projects at number 10 after they traded up when they could have got him at 17. Like I said, I love what the Grizzlies have done the last couple of years. I think they just nailed it. They have nailed it.

But the last couple of days with the deal moving up to 10 and 30, I don't like what Memphis did tonight. I just like Jonas. I'd like having him on my team, first of all. I think he's a really hard matchup for some teams, and he's a guy who's

not scared in important games. So they lose him for the Adams-Bledsoe combo, and it's like, alright, if we're going to do that, we better really have that payoff. They take Zaire 11th. Booknight is 10th. Booknight is 11th. Duarte is 13th.

Moody's 14th. Kispert's 15th. Sangoon is 16th. If anything, it would have made the most sense to take Sangoon, right? And just been like, we're replacing Jonas with a young, really strange, eclectic foreign center

who, you know, maybe could turn into the same kind of weapon that Jonas was. I don't know. I didn't like what they did. I didn't like those two moves together. And Zaire, I like Zaire at 17. I didn't like him at 10. What do you think, Ursula? I just think

rebuilding is a strong word because I also think there's a lot of seasons where we all would have rather had Steven Adams than Jonas Valanciunas. And I think Steven Adams with the Pelicans

is one of the worst versions that we've seen of it. How about retooling? Can I say retooling? Yeah, retooling. Retooling's fair. Rebuilding just seems, you know,

they feel like they're on the cusp of something here. You know, you want to build off of that A-seat, you know, and they ruin everybody's day. I'll never forget walking

around all day. I'm like, I just have the weirdest feeling that Memphis Grizzlies are going to beat the Warriors and it's just going to be it. We're like, wait, what happened to the Warriors? I want to watch the Warriors. I don't love everything that happened tonight with Memphis. I just think rebuilding is a little harsh. By the way, is this in Miles McBride

to the Knicks? The most Knicks pick ever? By the way, is this in Miles McBride to the Knicks? The most Knicks pick ever? By the way, Celtics are minutes away here. What are we up to? What pick do they have? 45. Wieskamp is gone. Tell your dad. Oh, Wieskamp's out? That was my guy. You just missed him. Spurs took him.

Spurs are back. Oh, Jesus. That was a better pick than Primo. Any other winners or losers for you guys? Sharif Cooper. Sharif Cooper falling, yeah. How far did he fall? He's still there. Still there, yeah.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Celtics actually made their pick. Who'd they take? Juhon Begueron, point guard from France. Is that a stash? Yeah, could be a stash. Super athletic. Needs to work on decision making

on the floor, but I mean, he's talented. Definitely talented. It could be because the French Celtics have looked so good in the Olympics. Fournier? Let's just stay over there. There's some Evan Fournier in New York talk a little

bit tonight in my texts. I'm not surprised at all by that. They made a big play for Hayward last year, and I think they really wanted to find that perimeter swing man who could initiate offensively and move the ball, and I think they really want to find that. I wouldn't be surprised. I'll tell you this.

He's not getting $20-plus million a year from the Celtics. That will not be happening. No. Nor should the Boston Celtics give that to him with the cap issues they might have coming up. That's the easiest way to get in trouble in basketball is you start paying Evan Fournier 23, 24 million a year.

Did we mention Booknight yet? Because I feel like he's a loser. We mentioned Booknight. Booknight. Did we mention Booknight? No, that's the first time. I'm on a Z-pack. This is actually incredible

because you couldn't stop doing it for months. He was your Muzi Modus. I know. I'm on a Z-pack. I took three showers today trying to get steam. I'm really, I'm faded to the end here. Booth Knight, though, goes to a team that has too many guards.

He thought he was going to go like 5th, 6th, 7th. He thought maybe the Warriors, he gets to play with Steph and Clay and Dre. And instead he drops and now he's on this weird Charlotte team. I can't imagine he's pumped. But then Michael Jordan will wink at him for a split second. It'll be fun.

That's a win. I'm waiting for the text from your dad. It was like, Hauser, Hurt, Garza were all still on the board. Yeah, my dad's... My dad can't believe Garza's still there. Another winner, De'Aaron Fox, Fake Trades. I plan on having some of those for you guys.

And then I'm so brain dead at this point. I wrote down Barnes for winners. Oh, Scotty Barnes. Great job by him. He could have gone to Orlando. He could have been this focal point of this rebuilding project where

too much too soon is like, we need your offense, Scotty. Now he could just go to Toronto and they'll mold him into being a Raptors type of guy. I think that was a good team for him, KFC. Yeah, I'm fired up for Scottie Barnes, especially if they flip Pascal Siakam somewhere else.

More minutes of opportunity for him. Where would that be? Where are they flipping him? I still like my Philly trade. Kyle Lowry's sign and trade with Siakam for Harrison Simmons. That was one of my favorites. That's a,

that was such a, like that was such a punch in your face type of trade. Cause there was so much stuff going on, money and people that I was like taken back. I think that's pretty creative actually. Thank you. Um, all right,

we're wrapping up. Our last loser is Kyle, who is like 50, 50 to get on the plane in time tonight. What do you think? So if you had to bet right now? 906. Pod's probably up by 10. He's immediately in the car.

Kyle's like the guy in Taken when he says, I have a particular set of skills. And I think him getting a bag packed and getting to an airport and walking through that gate is something that kid excels in. Don't think. To him, it's not just about getting to the airport on time. It's about being able to have enough time to have a cigarette outside the airport before he goes in the airport to check in. So it's like an extra five minutes that he needs there.

Life advice, maybe don't fly on a red eye on the night of the NBA draft. Biggest pod ever. One of the biggest pods of the year. KOC, what else do you have planned for us this week? I'm doing a video, I think, tomorrow morning for the Voyage, just reacting to the draft takeaways, maybe winners or losers.

Haven't determined it yet. And then next week, on to free agency. There we go. Stoked for that. It's going to be fun. Last winner I forgot to mention is just the trade guy, Cade Cunningham, and Cleveland guy, Evan Mobley. That's pretty good.

They got number one picks in just about any other year. Cade was the number one pick. Mobley. That's pretty good. They got number one picks in just about any other year. Cade was the number one pick. Mobley was number three, but good foundation pieces for two teams that desperately needed foundation pieces. Rosillo, what do you have going? Are you done this week with pods? No, we're doing the QB tiers with Sando

next week. I'm done this week. I'm going to go get I'm going to do a little fishing as soon as I get out of here. Great. All right. Great job. Great job guys. Thanks to, uh, thanks to everybody for listening. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, our producer who may or may not make his plane in time. Thanks to, uh, everyone who helped out and listen to us on green room as well. Don't forget about the other three parts, which are also up. We will see you next week on the BS podcast. On the wayside I'm a person Never lost it

I don't have To ever forget