The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Lottery Mock Draft With Kevin O'Connor (Ep. 229)

Episode Date: June 21, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Kevin O'Connor to discuss the Lakers' decision to cut ties with D'Angelo Russell (5:00), Brooklyn's best moves (8:00), Dwight Howard on the Hornets (11:00), Kristaps Porzingis's trade window (16:00), the Celtics' plan in free agency (21:00), Ben Simmons skipping summer league (27:00), and Josh Jackson declining workouts (30:00). Then, they go through all of the potential draft scenarios and select the best fit for each lottery team in the 2017 NBA draft (34:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the Angels in 2003 and a whole bunch of stuff. So it's a rollicking, rollicking podcast. Me and the Cuz, we hadn't been together in a while, so it was a fun one. Subscribe to that one, and don't forget to check out TheRinger.com. We have every conceivable aspect of everything that's happened in the NBA this week covered, including our awesome Ringer NBA draft guide. We're going to have two of the people who wrote that guide, Kevin O'Connor and Jonathan Charks, coming up. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam.

All right, the ringers, Kevin O'Connor is in the house. We're calling Jonathan Sharks in a little bit on the phone. We're going to do a little mock draft for the lottery, but first I want to talk about a bunch of NBA stuff. I didn't think we'd do four podcasts this week, but the NBA is moving so fast that, you know, here we go. There's been multiple trades. There's rumors of more trades. I don't know what the hell's going to happen.

If stuff happens as we're taping this, it's 1045 Pacific time. Tweet deck's open. Yeah, tweet deck's open. We need a SparkNotes version of everything that's happened or might happen. Right. It's crazy. The first most interesting thing that happened was that Brooklyn Lakers trade, which had a lot of ramifications, which have been covered in detail in a lot of different places.

But I really like Brooklyn. I like the mindset of getting an asset and taking on a bad contract, which, for whatever reason, took them a year to figure out that that's how they should be handling things. They're finally doing that. Russell, I think, is a great gamble at age 21. I think he was in the worst possible situation. Year one, he's with Kobe. It's a Kobe farewell tour. He doesn't have the ball at all. Has the crazy Nick Young thing happen. Year two, they're tanking. And then they just quit on him. And if you're Brooklyn, that's the kind of asset you want. You have the No. 2 pick, two years removed.

NBA history says you always want to acquire a top four pick before they're 25. This is the best way to get somebody. It's Chris Weber. It's Chauncey Billups. You can go on down the line. This has happened 20 times in the last 25 years. Did you like the trade for them? Absolutely.

100%, Bill. I think D'Angelo Russell, he's a reclamation project in the sense that he came from a poor situation, like you mentioned, with Kobe Bryant during his rookie season, and then they just gave up on him. But he still has had good production. I wrote an article last year for The Ringer, and it basically outlined how good he was when Kobe was off the floor. When he had the opportunity to actually be a point guard instead of Kobe's farewell tour. He did extremely well. And then obviously this stuff happened with Nick Young.

All that happened. So this is like a reset for him. And I think the Nets are going to feed him opportunity, and that's going to be great for his development. And people have given up on him a little bit. People call him a bust even last season during his rookie year. That's idiotic. It's ridiculous.

He's too young. Totally ridiculous. Plus, this situation, just give him a team. Let him make all his mistakes. Absolutely. He needs a ball in his hands. Work through it. When I wrote an article on point guards, every all-star point guard says early opportunity

was so important for them to grow through their mistakes. If you look at the point guards in today's NBA, most of them never made their first all-NBA team until they were an average age of 25. Russell's only 21, really young. I don't know what kind of offense you could build around him, but you could build an offense around his talents and his decision-making. It's conceivable, and it's better than anything they had. They get rid of Brooke Lopez last year of his deal.

I do think people slept on that trade for the Lakers a little bit because I think Brooke Lopez is a good NBA center. Totally. Watching him the last two years because the Celtics had their pick and he screwed up a lot of potential losses. And he gets hot. He has three-point range. He's an asset.

How did he extend his range all of a sudden? I know. Out of nowhere. And he can hold his hands up in front of the rim. He's improved a great deal. I'm not positive why they had to also give up the 27th pick in the trade, because that was so much Mozgov money. I think the price for dumping bad contracts is up,

and that's because the cap is flattening. I mean, it's not going to have drastic increases like we've had the last few years. But if the price is up, why did the Nets have to give up a pick? That's what I didn't understand. I mean, I think it's because Russell's really good. Russell's a really good player. But I think for the Lakers, they had to give up Russell. I think that's really the big deal here.

It's about giving up Russell to give up a contract. Because the 27 pick could get a solid player. But at the same time, I just think the team giving up a hell of a lot here is the Lakers. Gambling on giving up on Russell. But obviously it's worth it because of the potential ramifications of opening up cap space for next summer. But just the price for opening up cap space, I think that has kind of been set where you might have to give up a top player

if the contract has three, four years left on it like it does. I think they gave up too much. So there's a couple things with Lopez. One is he's an expiring contract, which I haven't seen people really make a big deal out of. But you're not just getting somebody who's pretty good. You're also getting somebody that, in February, if you need a giant expiring contract to go get an asset, that's now they have that. They didn't have that before, right?

This is why the Celtics did the Amir Johnson contract. This is why they did Tyler Zeller. The non-guaranteed. Yeah, they want the flexibility of that bigger number. And this is the biggest number. You get $22 million. Conceivably, they could put him and Julius Randle. All of a sudden, you can get $40 million in contracts back.

So that was good for them. Well, that's the interesting part. Just for the last couple of years, it hasn't been as important to have that. But now, with- It's important again, because the cap went back. I think people will need to adjust. I think, in a way, we got used to the big money handed out last year with Evan Turner, Moz Goff.

But now, I don't know if there's going to be as much money out there for those middle-tier guys, or even below-middle players. So, I did some recon on this. The cap went backwards and for a couple reasons. One, they did that deal with the retired NBA players with the pension. Initially they were expecting it was going to be like $108 million this year. Now it's $101 million

but it might actually be lower than that because of all the playoff games that didn't happen. So every time there's a playoff game, more money went in the pot and because the Warriors basically only played 17 playoff games instead of, usually they might play 25, 26. There was only five finals games.

The Cavs series, those ended early. There just weren't enough playoff games. And now they're thinking the cap might be 100 or maybe even like 99.5, which if you're the Celtics this week. Or the Spurs if you want Paul. Right. But if you're the Celtics this week and you have a chance to, let's say, trade for Jimmy Butler, and you're trying to figure out, all right, we'll give up Crowder and the Tyler Zeller contract that can be waived for Butler.

We're adding $10 million. This puts us here. But now we don't know if that cap's going back $2-3 million. Now the Gordon Hayward offer that we thought we were going to be able to offer him this, that's actually $3-4-5 million lower than we thought we were going to offer. Now we might not get him. And it's thrown a wrinkle into not just the Celtics, but I think a lot of teams' plans. A little cap chicanery.

I'll be very interested to see where that number does land, because I get the sense, too, it might not even be $101 for all the reasons you stated. It might be like $ 99, which is massive. That's a big, big difference. I mean, every dollar matters for those teams that are really rubbing right up against the cap in order to fit in the players that they want to chase. So, granted, it does lower the max cap number, because of the way that's calculated against the 101 million.

But still, I mean, that could be problematic for those teams with big plans this summer, like the Celtics, like the Spurs, or whoever else is out there. But it also makes the expiring contracts, they're valuable again now. Yeah. Especially when you have assets to package with them. Yeah. And they weren't valuable, and now they are. And I think we're going to look back at last summer, arguably some of the dumbest things

we've ever seen in the league since the 1980s. The Lakers, they had to give up the number two pick in the draft just to undo one of their two horrible mistakes from last summer. That's a catastrophe. That's a flat-out catastrophe. They just picked this guy. He's 21 years old. You do such a bad job last summer.

And moves that made no sense when they happened. So they're signing Mozgov and Deng, and it's like, where are you going? Why are you doing this? Right to the middle. The best thing you have is cap space. I mean, they're just so poorly run. But it's not just them. It's Joaquin Mel on the Knicks.

It's Evan Turner and all this stuff. I think Portland's the next logical team to basically use their picks to get rid of a salary. The good thing for them is they have three first round draft picks this year. If they want to package one of those with Evan Turner or whoever it might be, Alan Crabb for that matter, they can do it. But even then, they still have two big deals up there with Crabb and Turner. I like Crabb, but he hasn't really met my expectations personally. No, they're going to have to trade one of them.

They've got to. The Nets tried to sign Crabb, so they're probably happy to take him. That could be interesting. But yeah, if you give them, like, what are the three-point Olympics? That would be another interesting spot for the Nets to really get another pick. My big thing with them and why the Russell deal is so good is, besides the fact that I think Russell's going to be a great player, but the fact is that those are the type of moves they need to make

where it's a forward-thinking move. Take on cap. Don't worry about that you're not going to be signing anybody necessarily. And if you do want to sign somebody, it's probably going to be a restricted free agent. So I don't think it changes anything for them in the free agent landscape. And so for the Nets, I want them to take more shots in this year's draft. So how about this one? I got one for you.

They have the 22nd pick. Chicago is the 16th pick. You flip picks with Chicago. You also get pick 38. You get Bobby Portis. And for your troubles, you're taking Dwayne Wade. You're taking him off your cap. We'll take his 25 mil.

I'm sure Wade would be super happy about that. Who cares? Guess what? Retire. You don't like it? We're sending you paychecks. And you get Dwayne Wade, you sell some Dwayne Wade jerseys for four months, and you buy them out.

I don't know if I'd take $24 million of wages to move up six spots, though. And I get Portis, and I get the number 38. Okay. I feel like I'd be pretty happy at 22. I like that spot for somebody to fall, whether it's Harry Giles or OG Ananobi. But we're talking about taking shots. How much of a shot is Bobby Porter so? I mean, I like Bobby.

But you have to spend the money anyway, is my point. So if you have to spend the money. How about after a restricted free agency, maybe you do that. I think you've got to try it out in the restricted free agency market. Yeah, that's fair. See what's out there. But they did that last year, and they whiffed. And lost out.

Yeah, but maybe this year you don't. Maybe you end up with Contavious Caldwell Pope or somebody else. I'm not a big KCP fan, but a lot of people are. I am not a big KCP fan. The other guys that are out there that you could basically, you know, you could go take the Detroit Riff Raff. They're not Riff Raff, but you could take Drummond and Reggie Jackson together. Just be like, we'll take them off.

We'll take both. Send them our way. Van Yenny might like to hit the reset button. There's one other team that needs to create caps. Oh, Cleveland. So would you take, I don't know, the problem is Cleveland has no more assets to give, but like Amon Shumpert is somebody that.

Jetty Osmond. Is he? That's my guy, drafting stash. Jetty Osmond's going to be good. I like him. I don't know. When I say good, I don't mean like really, really good, but he'll be a good quality role player. So if you're's my guy, drafting stash. J.D. Osman's going to be good. I like him. I don't know. When I say good, I don't mean really, really good, but he'll be a good quality role player. So if you're the Nets, would you take Shumpert and Osman just to help them out with their cap?

Shumpert has $10.3 million this year and then an option, a player option for $11 next year. Yeah. How many spots am I moving up, or am I just getting J.D.? J.D. Osman. See, that's probably not enough. Yeah. I don't think that's enough. What does Memphis have where Memphis could be like,

here's Chandler Parsons' contract, and if you take this, we'll also give you this, this, this, and this? I don't think they have anything. They have a first-round pick. I don't think they have any super high pick to give. Yeah, they don't. They're screwed on that one. That's another one of those deals where I think they were desperate

to take a swing at a guy. Chandler Parsons had theoretical potential. But all those entries. I mean, come on. How about Phoenix Brandon Knight? How many years he has left? A couple. I don't think he's that much of a high cap.

The most emotionally scarring trade of this decade. Oh my goodness. All Milwaukee had to do was not take MCW and get that pick. Which one? What does Phoenix give in a dumb night? Marquise Chris? I mean, yeah, I'd love to have Marquise Chris. I don't think they're going to give him the dumb night, though.

That's way too much for Phoenix. Chris is going to be good. I guess Brooklyn's screwed. There's no other move for Brooklyn. This is it. This is their only... I'd retain Cap. They already took the one guy on.

Okay. So retain Cap and see what happens with restricted free agency. Who knows? They have some good things going with the Russell trade. We'll see how the draft goes for them. I mean, I know they're probably the franchise you would least want to be, but at the same time, they have some good momentum, I think. Yeah, they're number one.

As much as you can have, considering their situation. We're going to talk to Kevin Clark later and find out if he would flip spots with, he's a Magic fan, how many teams he would flip spots with. My guess is somewhere between 27 and 28. Yeah. But the other big trade that happened yesterday, Dwight Howard. So I looked at this, I tried to figure out how many teams have quit on Dwight Howard, and here's the final list.

2018 USA, they all hated him. That's why he didn't get a fight back. The 2012 Magic, and you could arguably throw in the 11 Magic too, even though he almost had an MVP caliber year that year, but he was a little icy behind the scenes. 2013 Lakers, 2016 Rockets, 2017 Hawks. It's five teams have quit on Dwight Howard. Sad.

And yet, I kind of like the trade for Charlotte. Let's bring the Dwight Bolivirus to Charlotte. Why do you like it for Charlotte? Because they got rid of Palmley's contract, which is an abomination. That's the funny thing. It's really horrible. Palmley's contract is worse than Dwight's. That's the irony here.

I don't even understand. And then they got a better pick out of it, too, which I didn't understand. Atlanta was just desperate to get rid of Dwight. Hey, I'll tell you what. Atlanta is example A of a team that probably maybe should have blown it up. I mean, you look at what's happened. When you think two years ago, or whatever year it was, when they were

shopping Al Horford. Not shopping Al Horford, but they were at least listening to offers, and the demand was like, I think from the Celtics, it was a Nets pick. I don't know what it was from other teams. But that year might have been the time to actually do it. Before they dumped Korver, before they might lose Millsap this summer, before they lost Horford, before they signed Dwight. I mean, they've made a lot of mistakes the past couple years.

Just think, just a couple years ago they were a 60-win team. 60 wins. I mean, people were talking about that as the East Spurs. And now look at them. It's sad in a way because that team had a lot of upside, and that 19-win streak was a lot of fun a couple years back. Could Washington dump Jan Mahimny on Brooklyn?

Because that's another one. Because they need money to sign Porter. Yeah. That contract is not good. That's a pretty bad one. That's like 48. We're going to look back at this. It's kind of the opposite of four or five years ago when players were signing deals

for four years, $32 million, and it's like, is this too much? It's like, no, no, no, no. The cap's going to go up. This is a bargain. Yeah. And now it's the opposite. We're going to be looking back and saying, what were these teams thinking in some of this?

So we've been on the NBA Slack just coming up with fake trades left and right, all of us. Porzingis seemed like he was available yesterday for about three hours, and it started a healthy Porzingis-Booker-who-says-no kind of situation, which I really enjoyed. I love that stuff more than anything. I suggested Porzingis and the eight for Booker and the four. And then everybody argued about it. It's a pretty good one.

I really liked Evan Booker. Here's my thing with Porzingis. And I hesitate to say this as a Celtics fan who's hoping that we get him. What's the list of guys with 25-foot range who can actually protect the rim in a finals game? It's basically him, Draymond Green, and Kevin Durant. There's not many. Those are the three guys. Towns in three years?

Maybe if he's trained. He's going to improve defensively. Right. That's the key with him. Maybe. Yeah. But Porzingis, I know. On one hand, he can shoot threes.

On the other hand, he can stand in front of the rim and put his hands up and challenge plays. I would not trade Porzingis. I wouldn't either. I think it's interesting that these rumors have even popped up in a way. I wonder, I mean, like I said in the Slack channel, like, hey, maybe the Knicks are doing this. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I wouldn't trade Zinger. But the injury history. In the last two years, he had a left leg injury pre-draft. He had an ankle injury, a thigh injury, an Achilles injury. Then he had a shoulder injury that ended his rookie season. That's a lot of injuries for a guy who had pre-draft injury concerns with the potential of having a fragile body with his

unusual frame. That's where I wonder if maybe the Knicks are like, hey, we do have some concerns here. We're at least going to listen. Obviously, reportedly, the demand has been quite high, as it should be, because he's a remarkable talent. But I just wonder if maybe that's something that they are thinking about internally that we aren't really talking about as much on the outside.

But I'm just speculating here. What's the most the Celtics should give up for Porzingis? Because right now I'd put the three in the Lakers-Kings pick done. I'd send that along. You could even talk me into throwing the Memphis pick, too. You would rather give up that than like wait for a potential bigger fish or would you rather have poor Zingas over a Paul George? or Jimmy Butler I would write to me it's like Poor Zingas. Well, I'd rank it this way Giannis Towns

Porzingis, okay, yo kitch This is some good big says a lot of good bigs in the NBA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think those four, like, if any of those four are on the table, you just go. Giannis is probably the most untouchable guy in the league right now. Yeah, yeah. But. More than LeBron.

Yeah. I don't think there's, if I did the trade value again this summer, I think Giannis would have to be first. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. If New Orleans called Milwaukee and said, we'll give you Anthony Davis straight up for Giannis, Milwaukee hangs up and laughs at them and says no. I think they would. Right. Especially when you consider Davis's injury history. Yeah, and his contract.

The whole dang stuff, yeah, and the money. Giannis, I think they signed him to a pretty fair, it was like four for a hundred. Pretty fair contract for him. Plus, I was talking to my friend Hershey about this yesterday. Could Giannis be a rim protector? In small ball lineups, 100%. Could he be basically Draymond on the defensive end and then offensively run your team?

I feel like he could. I think Giannis could, and I think that's where we're going to see a lot of teams go when they have those types of players. I mean, the Bucs could do it with Thawne Maker, too. They can do it with Giannis. I mean, there's other guys this year that I would like to see them draft that maybe they can do it with. I just think that's going to be one thing teams try to replicate with Golden State, because you can't play like Golden State necessarily,

but at least you can try to model their personnel to play against them. So I think the Bucs are one team where they're structured where they can do that, especially with Giannis at the five. And that could be an exciting thing down the line. If you're a free agent, wouldn't you look at Milwaukee over a team like, like the usual suspects, where it's like the Clippers and Houston. It's like, I would look at Milwaukee. I'd want to be on Giannis' team.

If we're talking strictly basketball, hell yes. But trying to win a title? Oh, no doubt. If that's my priority as a player, I would want to go to Milwaukee. Why would Chris Paul want to go to Houston? There was a thing today about Houston's trying to get this guy and that guy. And it's like, why would Chris Paul want to go to play with James Harden? Both of them need the ball all the time. That's a disaster. That would be a really interesting dynamic to see. When I did read that, I was thinking, how would Paul and Harden work? Interesting. Is it a train wreck?

Yeah. Those are two ball-dominant guys who throw out their entire career besides when Harden was young. But in their primes, they didn't really have to share a ball. I would say those are two of the three most ball-dominant guys. And they should be. Yeah. Because of their style of play. That's not a knock.

We're not saying, no, they're ball hogs. It's like, you want them to have the ball in their hands. But yeah, that would be really odd. And I wonder how much of that is just smoke. really like, you know, it's just like, hey, look at this shiny object. We're actually targeting this guy over here. Darrell loves to do that. That's a Darrell move.

We're looking at this guy and that guy. We want to see B3. All these guys. Watch out, clubbers. Give him a no-trade clause. Quick break to talk about our longtime buddies at Simply Safe. Getting a good night's sleep. Easier said than done.

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I have a message for Josh Jackson. You can go straight to hell. Go straight to hell, Josh Jackson. It's not Jackson, though. You're not going to work out for us? Good luck with your terrible career. It's not Jackson, though. Go ahead.

Who has the fourth pick? Phoenix. Oh, good luck in Phoenix. Or Sacramento. Oh, yeah, good luck in Sacramento, Josh Jackson. How dare you don't work out for my favorite team? He's from California. He's from San Diego.

I'm close enough to sack. I'm all in on Tatum, though. I'm glad. I'm glad. You know what? Because I just... You can just think, my dad's going to be 70 this year. The thought of him calling me at 1030 at night, East Coast time, after going to another game

where Marcus Smart and Josh Jackson went three-for-23 combined, and him complaining and making jokes about how the ball boys needed protective helmets and we need to reinforce the backboard. I'm just not in the mood for it. Just give me a guy who can score. I think Tatum's going to be really good. Even Tate begrudgingly admits that. Is that why you like Malik Monk? Because he can stroke threes?

Malik Monk would be my... My dream would be for them to turn 3-5-10 and then take Monk because he can stroke threes. Malik Monk would be my dream would be for them to turn three into five and ten and then take Monk at, I'm going to pronounce his name correctly at some point in my life, take Monk at five would be my dream. And then somebody's going to fall to ten. One of these dudes. Somebody's going to

screw up. In our mark today, we're going to talk about this, but a guard is probably going to fall, I think. And somebody good is going to fall in that 10 spot. That's why if I'm the Kings, I'm staying. And I'm staying there. Stay at 5 and 10. And even then, if you're the Kings, I know we're probably going to talk about this later,

but I would be thinking about not drafting Fox at 5, because then you can get that guard in 10. You can get Nilly Kena or Dennis Smith at 10, and then get Jackson at 5, maybe. Something like that. Or Isaac at 5. I don't know. So if you don't draft Fox at five and you take Isaac, you're banking on Dennis Smith, Monk, or Fox falling down. Or Frankie Smokes.

Yeah, yeah. Or Nilekina, yep. One of those guys. I feel like one of them's going to be there. I'd be surprised. That sounds too smart for the Kings. They're just going to take Fox. I think Fox has a chance to be one of the most

magnetic personalities in the league. The guy is so polished and likable and charismatic. Who needs that more than the Kings? He's got hair just like Vegeta. Who needs charisma more than the Kings? I think Coach Cal brought up a good point at the NBA Combine

that Fox doesn't attack the rim to dunk like John Wall does. And he's like, that's one thing. I'd like to see Fox change. I'd like to see him turn into a guy who attacks to dunk. And that's kind of the difference between those guys, I think. John Wall attacks and he wants to kill you at the rim. Fox is a little more finesse. I can't wait until he dunks on Josh Jackson, that traitor.

It wouldn't work out in Boston. I don't want to be onks on Josh Jackson, that traitor. When he works out in Boston. I don't want to be in the fourth best team in the league. Don't be mad at Jackson. Be mad at his agents for rightfully wanting him to be in a situation where he could get early playing time. I would want to play for a winner, too. But I can understand that point of view that you want your client to get heavy playing time and heavy opportunity. If his agents really think that way, they're jackasses. Because you want your client in the best possible situation on a very good team,

getting big-time reps right away versus being in Sacramento. Yeah, if you're in the finals and you're making big plays, if you're like Andre Iguodala-like for a finals team, you're going to get paid big time. Yeah. The team's going to see you and they're going to think, put this guy in this situation he's in where he's playing 25 minutes, and we're going to give him 35 minutes a game. It's going to see you and they're going to think, put this guy in this situation he's in where he's playing 25 minutes and we're going to give him 35 minutes a game. It's going to happen anyway.

It certainly worked out as a disaster for Kawhi Leonard. If only he hadn't ended up on such a good team, that guy could have made something of himself. The situation plays such a big part in success. If only Kawhi didn't end up with the Spurs. You get leadership and great coaching and you get big game reps when you're 22.

Oh, man. What a shame. Too bad. Poor Kawhi. What he could have been. Josh Jackson would be getting those lottery reps. Josh Jackson,

you need new agents. Is Charks on the line? Yes. No, I actually, I know though, Wasserman's my friend. He's been on the BS podcast before he owns the line? Yes. No, I actually, I know though, Wasserman's my friend. He's been on the BS podcast before. He owns the Wasserman agency.

I'm very upset with him that he hasn't intervened on this Josh Jackson thing. At least come work out. Come work out. What's your excuse for not working out? You're joining, you're becoming a professional. Work out for all the people. Try to impress them. I read today There might have been

A timing issue After the trade Oh please I don't know if that's just You know an excuse or what But yeah If I'm Jackson And if I had a chance

To work for the team That was the number one pick And they have a chance To be in the East Conference Finals I'd want to work out with them You know what story I loved? My man Jalen Brown Guess who's going

To Summer League this year? Jalen's a gamer Guess who told the Celt Guess who's going to Summer League this year? Jalen's a gamer. Guess who told the Celtics, I'm going to Summer League. You can tell me you don't want me to go, whatever, but I'm going. I want to play. I want to be the best. I want to go. I want the challenge.

Compare that to my son Ben Simmons, who's not going to Summer League. He's played 29 games in two years. He doesn't need Summer League? Doesn't need to play some full-court competition? What's going on with him? I'd want him in plastic bubble wrap. Great. So I wouldn't want Ben Simmons playing in Summer League either.

At some point, he's got to play basketball. Yeah, he'll play in the preseason. He'll be there. Well, we had technical difficulties. Could not get our friend Charks on there. But ringer NBA show, at some point this week, he'll do something. I don't know what happened. We're doing something after the draft.

Great. It'll be the high upside edition of the NBA draft. Great. You think Josh Jackson will work out for the podcast or no? No, he's not going to work out for us. We already tried to get him. He's not working out for us. His schedule doesn't work out?

What else is he doing this week? He's busy. He's in New York. We tried to get him out to L.A. He's not able to make it out. I hope the Celtics take him anyway. They're going to flip him? No, just take him and then be like, yeah, look at that.

Who won now? Yeah, you're on our team. You can't play in the NBA unless it's for us. Then your dad's going to be calling you talking about how they need to start drafting people that can shoot. It's going to be annoyed every night, Bill. Could he be Kawhi? Just draft Tatum.

Josh Jackson can't be Kawhi? I mean, like, is there a 0.1% chance? Sure. But he's going to need to fall into a situation. Is there a 10% chance? No. No, definitely not. It's really need to fall into a situation. Is there a 10% chance? No, definitely not. It's really hard to become Kawhi Leonard.

What was the chance that Kawhi was going to be Kawhi in 2011? I mean, he landed a 0% chance. That's the thing. It's like if you put Jackson on the Spurs, where he's Chip England, the best shooting coach in the world, one of the best shooting specialist coaches in any sport, then I'd increase from 0.1%. But if he lands on a team like the Celtics that doesn't have a shooting coach, a shooting specialist,

then I think those chances are very low. That's where situation plays such a huge factor in success. What about you draft Josh Jackson and then you make a godfather offer to Chip Englund? How much could he be making? How much money? What do you think he makes? Like $500,000 a year? A million? I'm pretty sure there was a report last year that I think the Warriors tried to get him.

Some team tried to get Chip England. What if somebody offered him like $10 million a year? I forget who it was. Is it worth it? If you turn Josh Jackson into Kawhi Leonard, that's worth it. It's worth it, 100%. It's a great investment. I think he might be probably the most underpaid person in sports, and we don't even know what his salary is. Mike Zarin tweeted today, the Celtics assistant GM, about how stupid it is that the draft is before free agency.

It is. So you're on that bandwagon, too. I am, 100%. So free agency could be Friday, we do all the things, and then teams have the draft. I just think it would be better that way. I think it would be better for the teams in terms of personnel and decision making. I know there's an argument against it, but I just feel like it allows them to make more flexible decisions and allow them to really know what their roster is going

to look like before they add those young players. Whereas, so like if you, let's say, you know, take Zarin, if they were to sign Hayward, right? What do you mean if? When they sign Hayward. Fine, when they sign. Or he's a traitor too. He might be.

He might go to Miami. But if you do that, then I think maybe that you adjust what your expectations are in the draft. And that goes for every team down the line. Can Hayward and Tatum, do they make sense together on the same team? I don't think you're going to have enough forwards in today's league. I think you put all those guys on the floor at once. You're playing small or even you're playing big, really. You could be playing big with one of those guys taking the floor at once, you're playing small, or even you're playing big, really.

You could be playing big with one of those guys taking on ball handling responsibilities, too. I think that could be a really good path for any team to think about, is having a bunch of 6'7 to 6'9 guys on the floor at the same time. I've heard a couple people tell me this in the league, that they feel like this is where the NBA is going. These interchangeable guys who can handle the ball and shoot on one end and on the other end can just switch on everything.

It's happening already, really. We're seeing it happen. Yeah. I mean, we mentioned the Bucs earlier. They're one team that's kind of doing it. I mean, that's the way you're going to need to defend the Warriors for the next three years, and I think that's the way it's going to look beyond, too. Okay.

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Markel Fultz to the Sixers 100% Not even fun I wish that there was like a late Lonzo might go to the Sixers They should work him out last minute Yeah Fly him in tomorrow morning Yeah we just want to get a quick look at him

Work him out at a high school gym in New York A couple hours before the draft. Come on. Still your due diligence, Philly. Fultz Embiid and Simmons is what? It's going to be really good for a really long time if Embiid stays healthy. If Joel Embiid stays healthy. He's really the big part of that, I think.

I mean, I think he is the cornerstone. He's the generational talent. He's the potential Hall of Famer. He's a level above Fultz and Ben Simmons, in my opinion, as a prospect. I think Fultz and Simmons, I would have them rated similarly as Simmons last year. I think maybe Simmons would be one this year, but maybe not. But Embiid is that guy. He's the cornerstone.

He's the potential Hall of Famer. So if he stays healthy, they're going to do amazing things. Do you think he should change his name to If Joel Embiid Stays Healthy? I think people need to start calling him JoJo again, like they did at Kansas. JoJo, I like that. That was his nickname. That still is his nickname. Nobody calls him it.

It's always Joel. I love the process. Great nickname, but JoJo. JoJo's a really good nickname for Joel Embiid. He's played 27 games in three years? Is that right? Joel? 32 games in three years? Is that right? Joel? 32 games in three years?

31 last year. 31 games in three years? 31 games last year for Joel. Ben Simmons has played 29 games in two years? Zero last year. Right, that's what I mean. LSU, 29. Yeah, so not a lot.

These guys haven't played a lot of basketball. They've played 60 games combined. And Joel Embiid started playing basketball late in his life, too. That's the remarkable thing about him. At only 23, he's already as good as he is. He didn't play organized ball until he was like 16 or 17. I really like a lot of the players on Philly, and I hope all those guys stay healthy because I would enjoy watching them all play basketball together.

It would be great for basketball. Yeah, it would be great. To see a team. I mean, how often has there been that much elite talent put together at this young age? Did you buy the whole thing that Fultz, there's some personality questions with him? Like he's too passive, all that stuff? Definitely. An executive said to me last year that some guys come in at 19, they have the maturity of a 22-year-old.

And some come in at 19, and they have the maturity of a 16-year-old. Fultz isn't the 22-year-old. I don't think he's 16 either in terms of maturity, but he's definitely not as far ahead in the maturity scale, at least from people I've talked to. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, if you're a certain team and you want a certain type of player, you might prefer the mature player, because everything factors in. Personality, the deep dives teams do into these guys' backgrounds, health. We talked last week about how they needed to see Fultz's medical reports.

Everything matters besides what happens on the court. Teams look at literally everything, including maturity. And I think Fultz will be fine. Do you think Tate, is Tate a 24-year-old who acts like a 27-year-old or a 21-year-old? What would be your take? Tate acts a little bit older, I think. Tate's good. Yeah, all right.

Good job, Tate. I don't live here in L.A., though, so I don't see Tate every day. Good job. We're all proud of you, Tate. All right. Second pick, Lakers. Lonzo. The question for us is, if they trade D'Angelo Russell before the draft, that means they're

all in on Lonzo, and of course they trade D'Angelo Russell before the draft. We got our answer. Yeah. Should it be the answer, though? all in on Lonzo. And of course, they traded D'Angelo Russell for the draft. We got our answer. Should it be the answer, though? Should it be Lonzo? Yes. I agree. So, I was driving to work yesterday and for the first time it dawned on me that the Celtics passed on Lonzo Ball and

there's a chance he might be this generational offensive player who's just incredibly fun to watch. All the intangibles in the world. And people are going to be like, oh my, it's going to be like a Steph Curry thing where people go, oh my God, how did anybody pass on him? This guy's amazing. He's contagious.

His passing, you can build this whole offense around him. He's everything you want in the modern NBA. Makes guys better. All he does is just take a B- and turn it into an A-. God, can you believe the Celtics traded down and didn't take him? I got really scared. I broke into cold sweats. Did you see what Larry Bird

said about him? Larry Bird was on Bob Ryan's Boston podcast a couple months back. He was talking about Lonzo Ball at a time he probably wasn't supposed to be talking about Lonzo Ball. He said, and I'm reading the quote right here, that's what's contagious. Guys moving the ball, getting the ball out of your hands quick and getting it back, watching him play.

He's not afraid to deliver it. He's a very talented player. Just a little quote. Larry Bird. That's the legend. That was what he was all about. He had just gotten done raving about how LeBron, his favorite thing about LeBron is how he just moves the ball constantly.

He gets the ball and he moves it quickly. And that's what Lonzo Ball does at the highest level. He's an elite passer, just makes guys better. It's a bummer if he becomes on the Lakers. A guy that has something stupidly passed on. It's destiny. So here's the flip side of this. It's destiny.

LeVar planned it. If it's LeBron and Paul George and then Boogie Cousins, and now you're building this super team that's supposed to compete right away, that's the worst thing that could happen to Lonzo. Lonzo's best case scenario would have been... Are we sure, though? Are we sure that's worst case? Well, I think he has the ability to fit in with a team. I buy it when LeVar and Lonzo say all they care about is winning. I kind of buy it.

I really do. No, I'm saying that. I wish, like to me the most fun team would have been Phoenix for him. Him and Devin Booker and just these wings that can run and jump and there's no pressure the first two years. Give Lonzo the car keys. Booker does his thing

and they're just going and they're building something. I think Lonzo would be the perfect point guard for LeBron. Just a guy who perfectly compliments him and just gets the ball quickly. Well, Lonzo and LeBron, that's a pretty high ceiling. And he can hit spot-up threes. I mean, he's got the funky mechanics and I have concerns about him off the dribble, but he can hit spot-up threes. Is there anyone whose mechanics you're not concerned about?

Malik Monk? Monk I'm not concerned about. I'm just scrolling down the list. We should start calling you the mechanic. You're always trying to fix mechanics. There's not a lot of guys. Tate, what do you think of that? We call KOC the mechanic.

I like it. All right. Only when I'm talking about shooting mechanics. So Lonzo's the right pick, and I would say there's a 30% chance the Celtic fans are going to be really bitter. 70% chance they won't be, but 30% chance. It's always nice to have someone you love to hate, though. Lonzo?

Lonzo and LeVar and the whole BBB. With that said, him and Isaiah made no sense. If they take Lonzo, they would have had to trade Isaiah. If Isaiah weren't there, I think Lonzo would be theoretically a perfect fit for a Brad Stevens run offense. 100% agree. If Isaiah weren't there right now.

They made their bet on Isaiah by passing on Fultz and Lonzo. Don't you feel that way? They're basically saying, stop with the trade Isaiah stuff. We're not trading him. What does Stevens talk about all the time? He talks about ball movement, crisp passing, lots of ball moving side to side. That's what Lonzo does best. It wouldn't surprise me. Every executive in the

league and every coach has different boards. It wouldn't surprise me if Brad had Lonzo one or two, maybe even one ahead of everybody. Just based off the things that he talks about that he likes. Biggest winner for Lonzo to the Lakers, Brandon Ingram. LeVar Ball. Well, other than, yeah, I mean on the Lakers.

He planned it out ever since before Lonzo was born. But I think this could have a dramatic impact on Brandon Ingram's career, life, upside, ceiling, everything. I think Ingram, one of the really nice things about him and the reason why I had him ranked one last year ahead of Simmons, is because he's not just a scorer either. He's a really good pick-and-roll ball handler. He's smooth, makes good passes. So now the Lakers have two guys in Ingram and Ball who can handle the rock. They can both hit spot-up threes.

I know Ingram's percentage was down, but projecting a hit, I think he'll be fine. They can run a really dynamic offense with multiple guys. They don't need LeBron. Tom, screw off. dynamic offense with multiple guys. They don't need LeBron. Tom, screw off. Who needs LeBron? They don't need LeBron. Go to the Clippers. We're OK.

It's been 34. It's been 16 years under his belt. Get that guy out of here. Prime is never going to end for LeBron. Overrated. Third pick Celtics. We think they're keeping it at this point. It sure seems like that.

I think that Jimmy Butler trades there at the end of July if they want it. I don't think they need to do it now. I wouldn't do it now. What do you make of the reports that Jimmy Butler said he wants to stay, though, and not go to Cleveland? Do you think that's just a Cleveland thing? Because that's what I've heard, that it's just a Cleveland thing. I wouldn't want to go to Cleveland with you. Hey, we might blow this thing up in a year. I think that's probably the reason why. I tweeted yesterday, like, oh, Jimmy Bowler doesn't want to go to Super Team, but I think it's more like that he just doesn't want to go to

Cleveland. That's the vibe I get. We both think Jason Tatum here. I'm glad you're coming around to Tatumville. I'm not coming around in the sense that I would still rather have the No. 1 pick than the No. 3 pick. I'm having a lot of Alonzo regrets.

I'll work through it. I mean, I have Tatum ranked ahead of Alonzo. Yeah. I just think Tatum. So Tatum is, best case scenario, he's Paul Pierce 2.0. Yeah, Pierce, Granger type of player. Healthy Danny Granger, Paul Pierce. Yeah, something like that.

Just go-to scorer, a guy you lean on, score at the end of the shot clock. I think Tatum's going to be really good. Really good, Bill. His feel at just 19, fluidity, footwork, working with his trainer, Drew Hanlon. He is so far ahead of the curve at his stage and I mentioned earlier with the maturity. Tatum is like a high character kid.

Everything you hear about him, people rave about him. Just how good of a kid he is and how hard he works. Those intangibles matter a hell of a lot. So Celts, Horford and Zizic is coming over, who you love. Yeah, I like Zizic. Where does Zizic go in this draft? Maybe 14, 15, but it's hard to tell with some of these bigs.

There's a big cluster of bigs that are going to be at the middle to the end of the first round. And so it would depend so much on how teams evaluate those individual players. So he'd be, in my opinion, a little bit ahead of some of those guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people had him right in that cluster. All right, so think of it this way. If they added Hayward and they picked Jason Tatum, Hayward gets all the Jay Crowder minutes.

Sign me up. Sign me up right now. You'd probably have to trade Jay, I think. That's easy. He makes $8 million, and he's got one year left on his deal. So just flip. He's got, I think, three. Jay Crowder?

I thought he was done either next year or the year after. Jay Crowder has three years left. He'll be making $7.8 million. Does he really? Three years left. Oh, that's a huge asset for somebody. That's what I mean. If I'm on another team, I'm thinking, oh, Jay Crowder's only going to be making $7.8 million three years from now.

That's what a ninth man makes, and he could actually start. That's what he might be. Wow. On the Celtics, I think, on a 58-win team, he's a ninth man. On a good team, he could be a terrific starter. Hell yeah. And put it this way. Jay's defense was a hell of a lot better, I think, two years ago.

And I don't really know what happened there, but that was the biggest value for him was his defense and his versatility. That's regressed a little bit. Maybe it's situation. A little bit? Guys just went by him. Yeah, he gets flat-footed. I would say he's pretty much an average defensive player now.

Guys were just going by him left and right. He was awesome. He was awesome when he got here. I thought he was better last year. I thought he played with a chip on his shoulder. But, man, like, you'd at least, if you're going to be like an elite swingman defender, I'm not saying you have to stop LeBron and Durant and all these guys, but at least make them sweat, make them wear it. Those guys just abused him.

I think it's kind of aligned with his increased offensive role. As that has increased, his defense has declined. So I'm kind of hoping, though. So flip Crowder for Hayward, and then give Jason Tatum— Crowder for assets. No, I'm just saying just on the roster. Hayward takes Crowder's spot. Tatum takes the Jurebko spot, basically.

Or whoever, like that person at the Jurebko. Like all those hodgepodge guys. James Young. James Young. All these guys. And he's just playing 25 minutes off the game, off the bench. And you can actually run plays for him. And he can shoot threes.

And the team's just better. Definitely. And then Zizic instead of Amir Johnson. Yes, who can't move anymore. Right. Can't rebound. Rebounds like a guard. And Zizit rebounds incredibly well.

Why does everybody think Josh Jackson, they rave about the competitiveness, what a monster he is, what a two-way. It's been that way for the last five years. It's true. It's the truth. So isn't that the kind of guy the Celtics pick? It is.

But at the same time, I just think Tatum's just a better overall player. Better prospect, better scorer, more refined shooter. I think Tatum is far ahead in a lot of different categories, despite being 13 months younger. Whereas Jackson, the problem with his jump shot, it's really scary. I know he shot 38% from three last year. Scary? Like you were frightened? I'm frightened. I'm terrified. 38% from three last year. Scary, like you were frightened? I'm frightened.

I'm terrified. Like simply safe level frightened? Yes, absolutely, 100%. And that's the concern with Jackson. If that shot doesn't translate to the NBA, it limits everything else for him on the offensive end. And then he's just a defensive guy. One of my buddies, defensive sports psychology company Eric Eric Weiss said to me that Tatum is like a poor man's Kobe.

Josh Jackson is like a poor man's Sean Marion. And that's kind of the way I look at it. I don't necessarily agree with those comparisons. Sean Marion's a good one. I like that for him. I think that kind of puts into perspective what the player could be. So if Jackson's

shot is just awful, if Sean Marion turned into a pretty solid shooter, there's some concern there long-term with him. He needs to overhaul his mechanics. I don't think he has great touch. He's a poor free-throw shooter. There's a lot of red flags there with his jumper, and we know how important shooting is.

He's going to be like Andre Roberson, Thunder, maybe one of the best perimeter defenders in basketball, but even he's a liability on the offensive end. And I think you need two-way players to win titles in today's NBA. You need two-way talent. So with all that said, Josh Jackson is still a nice pick for the Suns at four. He's still a really good prospect. There's no denying it.

For the Suns, that's a great one. I mean, I have him ranked sixth on my personal board. I like Jackson, don't love him, because of his defense. I mean, I have him ranked sixth on my personal board. I like Jackson. Don't love him because of his defense. I mean, he's an incredible defender. So would you take him at – who do the Suns take him for? I have Jackson going for. I'm not totally confident in that. I'm really interested.

Would you be shocked by De'Aaron Fox there? I wouldn't be shocked by, honestly, anything. They're working out Zach Collins on a one-on-oh workout today from a center. So it's like – Be careful, Phoenix. Nothing would shock me because some of those teams, it's like Jackson, as much as I like him, I can't get over the concern with the jumper.

So I want him to go to a team that has a good shooting coach. Not a lot of teams actually have shooting coaches. Like Orlando has a shooting coach. Like I said, he's not going to the Spurs. It would sure as hell be nice if he did. But not everybody has a shooting coach. Like I said, he's not going to the Spurs. It would sure as hell be nice if he did. But not everybody has a Chip England. The mechanic is worried about Josh Jackson. I think there's an outside shot that it feels too easy, the top four.

Something weird is going to happen. If I had to bet on anything weird, I would bet on Phoenix surprising us and taking Fox. I wouldn't if I were them. I would take Jackson. We had Fox there for the last mock, and on the update we switched to Jackson. But I think Fox would be a really nice fit next to Booker. Those guys could play off each other nicely. But we have Jackson there now.

He makes sense. So they would have Booker, turn Eric Bledsoe into something. Jackson. Uless, who turned out to be a nice little bench player for them. All these, the two guys from last year, Bender and Chris. Alex Lynn we're giving up on? Kind of, yeah. Chandler.

Maybe take a flyer on him. Chandler, probably a trade. Maybe try to flip him for DeAndre Jordan at this point. That would be cool. TJ Warren. TJ Warren. Just tape it. Would you trade Eric Bledsoe and Tyson Chandler for DeAndre Jordan?

Yeah. If you're Phoenix? Yeah. Would you do it if you're the Clippers? No, I wouldn't. No. If I'm the Clippers, I'm trading DJ to get assets to flip for Paul George. That's what I'm wanting to do.

I'm not trading DeAndre Jordan just for that, for an old center. Can we all agree that DeAndre Jordan is not worth the fourth pick in Tyson Chandler, and that was the dumbest rumor of the week? Are we sure that he's not, though? I mean, I don't— You would trade the fourth pick for DeAndre Jordan? No, I wouldn't, but what is his worth? Not the fourth pick. What pick would you give for DeAndre this year?

What's the highest he would go? Somewhere between 10 and 15. Really? Yeah. I'm not convinced he can play in crunch time of an NBA Finals game. Yeah. So I guess it's opposed suppose it depends on your goals. If your goals are to put together a title team, then I would agree with you.

But if you're a team that might just want to get into the playoffs and have an elite rim runner, a tremendous defender, then maybe it's something you'd do because you know what you're getting there. But if the goal is to put together a championship team, no matter how long it takes, then you don't do that. What about Minnesota at seven? Put him in town together. I still feel like that's too much.

I don't love the fit. I don't love the fit there. All right. So we both think Josh Jackson at four. Yes. I think Fox to the Kings at five. You think that they should take somebody else and try to get a point guard at 10 well yeah so i have fox there in the mock draft but it's not what i

would do not what you would not what i would do i mean i would want jackson there um if he were to fall i would be thinking about jonathan isaac at that spot if i if i'm um the kings i would be thinking about tatum if he falls. I'd be thinking about Monk there. But at the same time, Dennis Smith could be waiting there for you with a 10th pick. Frank Nillikina could be waiting there at 10. One of those guards, even Monk, could be there at 10. So if you take one of the forwards at five, you could get the best of both worlds.

And that's where I'm thinking for the Kings. As good as Fox is, I like a lot of those other guards as well that could be there at the 10 spot let's play it out let's say they take Isaac at 5 let's just play out the next picks quickly Orlando's at 6

do they then just jump at Fox or do they take Dennis Smith or they have an Alfred Payton nightmares right that's the thing they've taken a bunch of guys who couldn't shoot like do you just Jump at Fox? Dennis Smith? Or they have an Alfred Payton nightmares. Right, that's the thing. They've taken a bunch of guys who couldn't shoot. Do you just keep doing that?

I think Fox will become a good shooter. I have faith that he'll just be in the gym all day, every day, until he starts making them. I like the Mike Conley comparison for him. The Mike Conley cross with John Wall. At the same time, again, that's a concern long term with his jumper. Didn't look great in the workout video. I guess we can't play it out. There's too many variables. There's hundreds of variables there.

I also think a front office could get enamored with Malik Monk and just say, this guy's the next Ray Allen. Let's take him. Yeah. And he could be. Or he's like a Steph Curry, just all-time heat check guy. People talk about Monk's shooting ability, shooting, shooting, shooting. But oftentimes, the weird thing is he's an elite athlete, too.

Yeah. That guy can jump out of the gym. I was impressed by his D. Yeah, I mean, I think his defense is inconsistent. But the potential is there. The rap on him was that he was horrendous defensively. And then you watch it, it's like, yeah, he's fine. He's got long arms.

He can move when he's mentally engaged. That's the key. Put him in a situation where he's forced to defend to get minutes, then I think he'll be good. He was playing hard on D in the tournament. No, I didn't see the random SEC games in December when he was probably mailing it in. Yeah, it's a mixed

bag with Monk. I mean, you'll see games where he's really grinding on them, then you'll see games where he's just totally losing focus, not really paying attention as much off-ball. That's really the issue, I think, is the off-ball defense with Monk. Off-ball defense is just as important. Think about how much ball movement matters. With the Warriors,

for example, they want to pick a role on one side of the floor, but then there's a weak side action. That defense matters there just as much as what's happening on the ball. I hope he goes to Orlando at six. I like that for that. Because I think, even though he's not a point guard, I think you can run an offense with him. And maybe with one of those point guards that could handle the ball but also play off the ball.

But you're just running a lot of stuff through Monk. I think that could work. That's the type of team I would want to build in today's league. We have multiple ball handlers, and that's where a lot of teams are going. But I think Monk certainly can do that, but I've heard some things that he almost prefers being a two-guard. So that's a variable there. That's just the role he likes to play.

Are we sure the Celtics aren't going to take him? I don't think so. Would you bet your life on it? Yeah, I'd bet my life on it. I'd bet my life on – I'm not going to bet my life on Tatum, but I'd bet my life on it. I'd bet my life on... I'm not going to bet my life on Tatum, but I'll bet my life it's not Muck. Tate's dangling from a tractor. I got to improve the bet your life thing.

Tate's dangling from a tractor, and he's being pulled, like, drawn in quarter in two different directions. Would you bet your life on... Bet his life on Muck? Not going to the Celtics? It's not going to be Muck. Tate, you're fine. Nothing's going to happen to you. Oh, wait, we got to talk about Carvana.

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Check out carvana.com to learn more. That is C-A-R-V-A-N-A.com. It's the new way to buy a car. Amazing. We can buy cars online now. Where is this all going? Pretty soon we'll be able to just buy NBA lottery picks online.

I was talking to somebody yesterday about that. We live in people's houses here in B&B. We go in their cars with Uber and Lyft. It's unreal world. We'll be able to make draft picks for the Celtics. So, sixth pick, you have who going to the Magic? I have Jonathan Isaac going to the Magic. Again, probably not the pick I would make, but I think that's probably the direction they're going to go. It fits their MO. Look at what Milwaukee did with all the big, long players, versatile. Jonathan Isaac fits that bill to a tee.

If chalks were here, he would be saying how Isaac is, he has him ranked fourth, I believe, or top three or something like that. I think the Celtics have him high, too. He's really good. He's like taller, Andre Karolenko 2.0, basically. Yeah, that's one of the comps we have on there, courtesy of somebody who tweeted us with that, because that's a good one. It's a really good one.

That's a really good comp. Think about Karolenko in today's league. He'd probably be one of the best high-end role players in today's league. If Isaac reaches his peak, he'll be like a non-traditional superstar. That's the phrase one executive used to me, and I feel like it makes sense. If Isaac reaches his peak, the question is the offensive end of the floor. And it's my hang-up with him. Could he play a five?

Yeah, he could play a five. Small ball five? Rim protector guy? Charks wrote a good article on that, about how Isaac is the best center in the draft, even though he's not a center. Right. There is no such thing as a center anymore. Kevin Durant's a center now.

I wish position labels could just be erased. But we have to use them for context and defining players. But really, positions don't really exist anymore in the league. Every player just fills roles. So Isaac can fill the role of rim protector in certain lineups. We should just call that position rim. Yeah, that's what it should be. Ball, rim, wing.

Yes, ball handler, passer. Ball, rim, wing. Yes. Ball handler. Passer. Ball shoot, wing, rim. Spot up. Spacer. Things like that. Spacer. Isaac's a terrific, terrific rebounder for his position. Terrific versatile defender. There's a lot to love with him. I like him too.

At seven, Minnesota marketing keeps getting tied here. He's my least favorite pick of the top ten. I don't know what he is. He's a very good shooter, I guess. Great. I think it is a rebound or defend.

I don't know where you play him. I think it was maybe two months ago or something. I was on the pod with you around the trade deadline. We were talking about marketing, and I think I was supposed to make the case for him. And when I talked about it, I ended up making a case against him in the sense that this guy, Larry Markkinen, is an elite shooter at seven feet. But the thing is, seven foot is just a number. I mean, if you look at how he rebounds, he rebounds like he's six foot five.

You look at the way he defends, he doesn't defend like a seven footer. So you can say he's a seven footer who shoots threes,, he doesn't defend like a 7-footer. So you can say he's a 7-footer who shoots threes, but he doesn't play like a 7-footer who shoots threes. He plays like a wing who shoots threes, and that's typical. So I think there's a chance. So what is that? I don't know. I think if his offense reaches its peak, he could become a really, really, really good scorer.

That's why we have Dirk as one of the comps for him. But there's also a chance that he just ends up being a Channing Frye. I apologize to Dirk. He could just be Channing Frye, and I don't want to draft a guy. Channing Frye didn't play in the finals. Exactly. Because he, Lowry marketing could have the issue where he can't defend well enough, can't rebound well enough, and he doesn't do enough on the offensive of the floor, period, besides

spot-up shoot. So I think Lowry needs to really, really reach his peak offensively because I worry about everything else with him. There's a lot of Kelly Olenek to him, too. I think Minnesota takes Monk at seven. How come? Because he's a gamer. He's a shooter. He has the potential to be electric.

He could space the floor for them. I think you could play him and Wiggins together, as weird as that sounds. Worst case scenario is a six-man off the bench for a couple years, heat check guy. Then you figure out what you have. Does he make Levine expendable? That's the thing.

They played better when Levine got hurt. I'm not a Levine guy at all. I'm not either. I don't understand. What does he bring to the table? He's terrible defensively, right? Not a lights-out shooter. Great athlete.

But I don't know. There's been a lot of guys like that over there. If you're telling me, especially now when everybody goes smaller, right? Now, Chris Dunn, is there any chance he becomes good? Yes, there's a chance. But for now, Rubio's there. So you've got Rubio. You have Andrew Wiggins. You Yes, yeah. There's a chance. But for now, Rubio's there. Yeah. So you got Rubio. You have Andrew Wiggins.

You have Monk. You have Towns. It's a nice core. And then you have, who would be the other rebounder in there? Gordie Jang. Yeah, whoever. Yeah. But you have those four.

I'm going to have a good offense. And I'm not going to be able to get totally torched on defense if I play those three guys together. I don't know. I would take Monk. I think with Levine, I had him ranked 26th in my 2014 draft guide, which was too low. That was a mistake to have him that low because he still turned into a quality player.

But at the same time, like a lot of his weaknesses, defense, passing ability, just besides the fact that he's an athlete who can shoot, there's not a lot else there. So I'd be looking to flip him if I'm the Wolves. Unfortunately, he got hurt. Exactly, the injury. On the other hand, if I'm Brooklyn, I'd be like, okay, we'll take him. What do you want?

Take a flyer on him. Yeah, here, we'll give you something. He's still in a rookie deal. He's only got the one year guaranteed left, and then he becomes restricted. So good opportunity there if a team didn't want to take a shot at him. I think it would be the most fun if they took Monk other than Knicks. The Knicks are the all-time most fun destination for him, just because I think him and MSG. For any player, it's the most fun destination.

Him and MSG, with Porzingis and just the possible double heat check and all the good things that could happen with that. There are two guys. I think there's some logic to this goes for every team, like the Suns with Booker at four. There's some logic to getting guys who are a little streaky. If both those guys get hot at the same time, you're going to rack up buckets.

And Porzingis and Monk are two players. It's like the Durant-Curry is the ultimate of that. Exactly. I think that's something I'd be kind of angling for. I think Maury talked about this. I forget which show it was or if it was with an interview, but he talked about how his team in the playoffs, if all those guys get clicking, they can score enough points.

Higher variance, you might have some bad performances like Houston did, but if you've reached the peak and you get tut, that's when you get upsets. All right, Tate, mark this down. 11.52am June 21st, 2017 I'm going on the record. Been waiting to do this until the day before.

I think Malik Monk's going to be great. I feel very similar to him, maybe not as high of a ceiling as I felt like Curry had in 2009, where I just felt like Curry was going to be great. I just couldn't believe when teams were passing on him. This draft is better, and it's harder to get mad at teams for passing on him.

I just think the guy's going to be great. And the parallels here of 09, Curry going right before the Knicks, and the Timberwolves, if they took Monk, right before the Knicks and the Timberwolves if they took Monk right before the Knicks I just can't stop staring at it I think the guy's going to be awesome if anything Fox had the ball so much

I don't think we really totally saw what Monk could do and I think if you put him on a team like Minnesota I think he'd be unleashed. I'm all in. I think the guy's special. I don't think that means he should be the number one pick in the draft, but I think he's a guy that as we drift down this draft five years from now,

we're going to go, wow, he went seventh or he went eighth. This was the argument for trading down when I wrote that trade down article is that there's nine guys, really, maybe nine guys where you could say, it wouldn't be totally surprising if he becomes the best player in the draft. If you tell me Dennis Smith is going to be the best player and he gets drafted 10th, I'm not going to be stunned. I think there's nine guys this year where you could make a legitimate argument.

And Monk is one of them. I have him ranked eighth on my personal board, which I think is fair. Yeah, I agree. Where would you have him ranked if you had a personal board put together? Would it be like four-ish, something like behind Fultz? Well, I think he's another guy who depends on the situation. I just think his game is just perfect for the NBA. It's just perfect.

It's exactly what you want as a guy who is a lights-out shooter. Who can make any type of shot. He can make off-bounce shots. He drives to the rim. He's got that weird swoop layup. He's got floaters. He can dunk it, too. He can dunk.

He's a good athlete. He can yam it when he has space. And he played in big games last year. Yeah. And I like the way he played. I like Monk a lot. He's a gamer. I think he's somebody who, I mean, when I look at my rankings, my biggest difficulty

is that four to eight range. Yeah. I have Fox four, Isaac five, Jackson six, Smith seven, and then Monk eight. That range, I have my greatest difficulty in putting those guys in order, because so much of it depends on situation. For certain teams, Monk might be higher. For others, it might be lower.

It's a tough spot. If the Celts went three for five and ten and threw in their own pick next year. And a player. Whatever. Marcus Smart, whatever. And they took Monk at five, I would be delighted. And then they grabbed somebody else at ten. But to me, I think it's in play that seven years from now, he's as good or better than Fultz.

Sure. I think it's in play. I'm not saying it'll happen. I think it's conceivable. Anybody who would argue against that, I think, is falling too in love with the player. And number one, Fultz is a tremendous prospect, and he's going to be a really good player. It wasn't conceivable that Marquise Chris is going to be better than Ben Simmons. When you're talking about

1-8 in last year's draft. Ben Simmons was clearly better. It would have been a miracle for Marquise Chris to be better than him. That's why this year's draft is so unique. That's why we love it. That's why we talked about 98-99 type of draft. There's a lot of potential all-stars in the lottery.

Russell Westbrook, he went fourth, which was high. And I loved him that year. He was my big sleeper, and then he actually climbed the top ten. He wasn't a sleeper anymore. And then he went fourth. It was like, wow! I liked him. I didn't know if I liked him fourth. Now, Derrick Rose, I think, went first. To me, at

the time, I would have obviously bet on Derrick Rose becoming a better player. It wasn't inconceivable that Westbrook was going to end up being better than him because his sophomore year he was electric. I think Monk's at least in play for that. Alright, so the Knicks.

If Monk's on the board and they don't take him, I actually think there might be a riot. If he's off the board, would you see them taking Dennisis smith or marketing better not be marketing i don't i i'm that feels so phil jackson i would go to smith but it's it's going to be fascinating to see what they do like they're working out donovan mitchell point guard from louisville yeah luke canards get some noise there at the eight spot i feel like they're going

to surprise some people um if if if like monk not there, I'm not convinced it'll be Markkinen. I don't know how much of that was just noise attached to the Porzingis rumors or what. But, man, I have a feeling there's always a surprise every year. That could be the spot, the Knicks at eight. If you're the Kings, and you take Kevin O'Connor's advice and you draft Isaac Fifth, and then it goes down and Dennis Smith is still there at eight, do you call the Knicks and say, we'll flip eight and ten for you? We'll give you Colley Stein and something else?

I wouldn't want to trade Colley Stein. Would you do Colley Stein and ten for eight if Dennis Smith was there? You'd just keep Colley Stein and roll the dice? What's the alternative? Who's at 10? Nelly Kina? No, I wouldn't do that. No, I wouldn't.

And the reason why I wouldn't is because I'm super high on Donovan Mitchell. So I would just want him at 10. So you feel like he is the 10th best player in this draft? I have him ranked 10th, yes. Okay. So Knicks, your prediction is? I have Monk in the draft. I don't think he's going to be there.

It's too good to be true for the Knicks fans. If he's not there, they're going to stun people. I don't think marketing goes seventh. Mitchell, someone like that. Why would marketing go seventh? I don't understand that. I don't understand. Every draft, he's seventh.

And it's like, what evidence do we have that he's going to go seventh? None of us think he's the seventh best player in the draft. Why is he going to go seventh? seventh? None of us think he's the seventh best player in the draft. Why is he going to go seventh? I mean, some people think he's the seventh best player in the draft. I mean, you can look around the internet. There's some outlets that have him. I don't agree with you people. We're the odd duck that has him.

All three of us have him outside the top ten. Me, Charks, and Danny Chow. All three of us have him outside. You guys are smart. That's why you work for the ringer. Number nine is Dallas. I'm very, very interested to see what they do. They love to get cute, that Dallas team.

I got filthy Frank Nilekina going there right now. But at the same time, I think Dennis Smith would be really, really intriguing for them. And kind of speak for Charks here, his argument is Dennis Smith is a significantly better fit for their pick-and-roll offense. They run a lot of high pick-and-roll. Dennis Smith is a downhill pick-and-roll player. And that makes a lot of sense, Dennis Smith there.

But they've been really attached to Nilly Keenan, and that's why I have him there. So I think— Do we believe this, though, when they do? They've been really like, the Celtics love Fultz. Meanwhile, they're trying to trade down. Yeah, yeah. We love Fultz. Fultz is trying to trade down. We love Fultz. Fultz is the best guy.

Hey, who wants our pick? It's hard to know what to believe and what not to believe. This time of year is very difficult. I don't believe anybody or anything. I think they should take Dennis Smith if he's there. But let's say the top eight goes with the actual best eight guys, and everybody's gone, and now it's like Markkinen, Donovan Mitchell, Cunard, John Collins, all these guys, then what do you do?

So, Fultz is off the board. Do you take Markkinen? Ball's off the board. Fox, Isaac, Jackson, Smith. The real top eight is off the board. Okay. Yeah, they're all gone. Markkinen is off.

So, Nilly Keene is the best available. Mitch, Ananobi, Mitchell. Oh, yeah. I forgot about him. Frankie Smokes or Markkinen? Yeah. Okay. I would take still Filthy Oh yeah, I forgot about him. Frankie Smokes or Mark. I would take still Filthy Frank. I'd take Frankie Smokes as well. I'm a big fan. He could be

the next Dante Exum. Yeah, he could be. Dante Exum's not done getting better though. I'm not ready to give up on Dante Exum. There's a chance he is Exum. Can I sell you my stock? Danny Chow has a lot of stock, too. Go over to Danny Chow's office.

The stock for Dante Hexum is pretty low right now. Maybe now is actually the time to buy it. Not where Danny Chow bought it. Okay, I'm not. Danny Chow is just, he went all in. Well, we might as well hang on now, right? Yeah. All right, number 10.

Who's the 10th pick? Sacramento. I can't read the logos. Oh, yeah, the 10th pick. So they'll take... Well, they got Fox at five in the mock. So here at this spot, I have Zach Collins in the mock draft. But at the same time, I wouldn't do that pick.

I'd still be looking for a home run swing, like OG Ananobi, forward from Indiana. He's not going that high. He's going to sit out the whole year, right? Maybe. I mean, I don't think Sacramento would do that, but it's what I would think about doing. They do have their pick next year, right? Yes, they do.

So that would be a reason to do it. I believe so. What I don't want them to do is take another power forward. Sacramento, stop taking power forwards. Yeah. Just stop. Don't take anybody who has to play near the rim. How about Luke Kennard for them?

No. No? No, no. You know my real- So that's where it's getting. So it's like now we're at Larry Markkinen for Zach. Let's say they get Fox at five. Are you taking another guard with Mitchell?

No, you're not. In an Obie? No, because he's injured. You don't want Kennard. So Markkinen, you don't want him. You don't want Zach Collins. Well, if they didn't take a point guard yet, then you'd take Donovan Mitchell, I think. Yes, and that's the appeal. That's why I'm thinking Isaac at five if I'm sack. And I don't think they're

going to do that, but it's what I would want. You know my rule on combo guards. What's that? It means that they can't play their position that well. You're a combo guard? It means, I'm a combo guard. Are you a point guard? No. The league has changed, though. You're a shooting guard? Not really. What are you? I'm a combo

guard. I'm Rodney Stuckey. The league has changed, though, Bill. The league is totally different now. Combo guard. I read a whole thing about that on Donovan Mitchell, how he is a combo guard. Yeah, but at least he can play point guard. Yeah, he can. And he can play two guard, too. Grievous Vasquez, combo guard. So

combo guard, what would you define Mitchell as then? Just a basketball player? Better than a combo guard. Is he just one of those guys where he's just a basketball player? Combo guard is a word we use when somebody's not that good and we don't know how to classify them. This is the issue with positional definitions. Because Mitchell, you could say he's a guard, He's 6'3".

But it's like, no, this guy's super long and he's built strong. Do you know who's a combo guard? Terry Rozier. Combo guard. Potentially. It's looking that way right now. Yeah, he's a combo guard. What is he? I'm not happy when he's at either position. I'll tell you what,

I think Mitchell's going to be really good. He could be the steal this year. But I think he's better than a combo guard. I actually think he could be the point guard in offense. He's one of those guys who's a basketball player. Yes. The defensive end can defend multiple positions. Offensively, he can hit spot-up threes or he can create for you off the dribble.

He's really, really good and another high-character kid, too. And he's approved by Haley O'Shaughnessy, right? Yes. Yes. Although that doesn't take much because he went to Louisville, but still, I think if there was any red flags, she would at least bring them up.

We know about it. Thanks, Haley. All right, just quickly we'll go through the rest. Number 11 is who? I can't read this. I couldn't print out the ringer thing. I'm looking at Draft Express, which the logos are so tiny. Oh, Charlotte.

11. They're in a very- Tate, who do you want? They're going to take Rab. Tate says they're going to take Ivan Rab. No! That would be early. Don't do it.

Don't do it. Yeah. I think... We're going to lock up Michael Jordan tomorrow. Let's all agree that the funniest outcome would be Markkinen. Yeah. After Frank... Kaminsky, Zeller, Markkinen.

That would be hilarious. I would love that. Markkinen will be doing TV in a couple years. Second funniest outcome would be Luke Kennard. Oh. Tate's crumbling. I like Kennard. Tate, what's wrong with Luke Kennard?

Besides the fact that he went to Duke. Tate says PJ Dozier's better than him. Tate says PJ Dozier is better than him. Tate says P.J. Dozier is better than him. I vote for Luke Kennard to Charlotte. That feels like an MJ pick. He loves those proven fundamentally sound college guys. Dude, Kennard's going to be good.

That guy can stroke threes. 12th pick is Detroit? Yeah, Detroit. I think he takes OG here. I don't know. That guy can stroke threes. 12th pick is Detroit? Yeah, Detroit. Yep. And we have in the mock draft. I think he takes OG here. I don't know. I don't see it. Why?

Because I feel like based on their personnel decisions in the past couple years, they're a team that's pushing for the playoffs. So to wait a year for a guy, unless they're changing gears and they're willing to wait on a high upside player. My guess is they're changing gears. Then it should be a guy like Ananobi. That would be my choice. Let's say they didn't change gears.

Then it's like a Justin Jackson type pick. Well, here's the thing, Bill. In the mock on the ringer, the guy who falls to this spot is Dennis Smith. There's going to be somebody who falls. Did we have anyone take him yet? No, not in the ringer's mock draft. No, what about the pod we're doing right now? I mean, yeah, I think we had Smith in a couple different spots.

I don't think he gets by Dallas. The ceiling's too high. What if Frank's there, though, too? I think they'd take Dennis Smith. Cuban wants a home run swing with that pick. It's his one chance to get a lottery pick. Sure, but if you're Rick Carlisle and you're asked your opinion, like, hey, who do you like?

I think if you're Rick Carlisle, you're looking at Dennis Smith and you're thinking, this guy doesn't defend, doesn't try on the defensive end of the floor. I don't want to deal with that. I think that, or Nelly Keenan can come in right away, and he's just a badass on the defensive end. That's why I call him Filthy Frank. That guy's filthy on that end of the floor. I think Rick Carlisle would be like, I don't like the country of France. Take the American.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Where was Roddy Buble from? Wasn't he France? They're going to take another French guy? He was. He was French. Don't take another French guy, Dallas.

Take Dennis Smith. It could be fun. They'll throw him alley-oops. And then 13, we have Denver there. Oh, Denver. Denver's in a fun spot because they already have everybody. That's a team that can just take OG. That's why I love OG for them because they can afford to wait.

They don't even have playing time to give out right now. They have so many players. So OG would be good for them. That's a smart pick. A red shirt season for OG and OB. I like it. Maybe bring him back in April, but maybe not, too. And we think potentially, if he's healthy, where does he go in this draft?

He's 100% healthy. Honestly, I don't even know if he'd go that much higher than he is. He doesn't crack top nine? I don't know. I don't know if he would. I think there's legitimate concerns about his offense. As incredible as his defensive ability is, offense is a big question mark. So I think he'd still hover around in that maybe eight or nine behind those false ball Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac guys.

That's where I think he'd go. So last pick, 14? 14, Miami. We have Mitchell there in the mock. Ooh, that would be nice. I hope that doesn't happen. I don't think Mitchell should last. I think there's a chance that he will.

Somebody's going to fall to Miami, and we're all going to be mad about it. Because that's how it works in Miami. That's what happened with Justice Winslow. Yeah. This is the year where somebody's going to fall. Somebody falls. I'm like, oh, my God, Miami got Dennis Smith. There could be one or two guys who fall.

If Kennard goes higher than people think, if Zach Collins goes higher. I think Collins is a guy that Miami would target here. But at the same time, we have Collins going 10 in the mock. There's going to be guys who slip in. Honestly, if I'm Miami, every pick is really a best player available thing, but especially Miami. It's just about infusing talent into the situation they have. Especially when they had Blake Griffin.

Yeah. So no Lowry marketing for them. Don't want to draft another forward. Well, this is something. This is going to be quite a draft. I think the funniest part will be if the Knicks take Markkinen. That would be the funniest moment of the draft. And possibly my entire year.

Markkinen will have to deal with an endless list of questions. Like, how comparable is your game to Kristaps Porzingis? I hope that doesn't happen. And I hope they take Monk. And it's not comparable that much at all for what it's worth. KOC, we can see you on The Ringer all week, hear you on The Ringer NBA show on Friday with Charks. Hopefully we figure out their phone, whatever happened.

And we'll look for your stuff all week on TheRinger.com, especially if there's more stuff going on. I don't think Paul George gets traded before this draft. I think it'll happen in July. After free agency. Yeah, after free agency. It'll happen somewhere there. Quickly, we're going to bring in Kevin Clark, Magic fan, right now. All right, last thing.

Kevin Clark, Magic fan. I thought of all the non-lottery teams, Charlotte was the saddest team being left out this week of this crazy NBA carousel. And then they traded for Dwight Howard, your old friend. That makes them sadder, right? Yeah, it makes them a lot sadder. But you love the Magic. The Magic are sitting sixth. Is there anyone that you have your heart set on? No.

I mean, obviously Isaac would be huge for us. Kevin O'Connor thinks that's the best fit. I love it. I mean, I think any of these guys, I keep thinking, I keep viewing the magic like I view the Cleveland Browns. They just need talent. They just need to, you know, it's not like they're building anything. They have nothing.

You just want an asset. Blow it up. Blow it up. I mean, just like you can trade. You're pitching to Kevin's choir on that one. The other nothing. You just want an asset. Blow it up. Blow it up. I mean, just like you can trade. You're preaching at Kevin's choir on that one. The other Kevin. You can trade Vooch. You can trade Alfred Payton.

Yeah. Why are we not packaging? I would package all the young assets and try to get something for it. Because there's still, we know there's 30 GMs. You know, five to ten of them are just completely clueless. Yeah. So you just package some of these allegedly good young players, Vooch, Hazonia, Alfred I don't think anyone likes those players.

I just try to get something for them because they're not valuable. Vooch is valuable, maybe. Fournier is... I think you're Dennis Smith waiting to happen. I know. Fournier, maybe you package him. Give him the car keys to a series of 28 and 54 teams. And he's going to put up big stats. I said last week.

To win the dunk contest. You asked me who I wanted last week. I floated Dennis Smith, and you were very low on that. I still am. I think if the goal is to just continue to go 28 and 54, I think he's the pick. Yeah, I mean, maybe one of these guys, I think the order seems to be set with the top five, so being at six is extremely bad. You have your run of the mill. It's like having pick 33 in the NFL draft.

Right. That whole day to think about it, basically. Don't the Patriots always have every pick between 33 and 40? You know what that's like. Why didn't you trade for Dwight? That's a great question. I think Rob Hennigan, if he had another year, may have done that.

Because I think he just, you know, he'd be in job preservation. It would have been the funniest outcome for everybody. I don't know. Has that ever happened

where someone poisons a franchise so much and they come back to it? He quit on the city and then came back? I mean, that's a big thing. LeBron James.

Oh, LeBron James. I mean, I guess LeBron James. LeBron James. But no, I mean, I guess that's, but LeBron came back when he was still good. You could have given up Vucevic and one of your bad contracts. Who's your worst contract? Oh, God.

Now, I mean, we got rid of them all. Oh, yeah. Channing Frye was two years ago, was our last bad contract. I guess it would maybe make them give you the— We have a lot of good contracts. You could have gotten the 31st pick in Howard for Vucevic. Yeah. And then Howard would have immediately retired because he wouldn't have wanted to go back. Then you saved $15 million.

Fournier's on a good deal. So I don't think there's any real problems right now. Is it a good deal? Would you call it a good deal? We're not overpaying him. Pay him $18 million a year is a good deal. We're not overpaying him. I think Dwight Howard would have been a disaster in Orlando.

It's not a LeBron situation because he's so much worse than he was four years ago. What franchise would you not trade places with? The Kings? I'd rather be the Kings. I don't know. They have at least five and ten. And they have Buddy Heald. And they have Cauley Stein.

It's pretty low. Would you trade places with Detroit? Would we get Stan Van Gundy back? I'm saying you should literally trade franchises, everything.

Yeah, probably. I mean, I... You would rather be the Pistons. I don't... We don't have anything. None of these guys are going to help us win.

So we have nothing. Would you rather be the Hornets? Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. Would you rather be the Hornets? Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. Would you rather be Brooklyn? No.

KFC's laughing. What, just because they have Russell now? I'd rather be Orlando than Brooklyn. I'd rather be anyone than Brooklyn. I agree with that. I agree with that. Everybody else, I mean, I think you're over, for me, the Magic just need to blow the whole thing up. There's no, maybe Vooch is like the eighth guy on a championship team at some point.

But right now. I don't think he even plays in the finals. He loses rotation spot in the second round. I think he's waving a towel. Aaron Gordon maybe could have played for 11 minutes until everyone just left him open and he just missed three. Gordon needs to make an extreme leap in order to be a starter on a championship team. So you would trade places with everyone except for Brooklyn?

Mm-hmm. Charlotte? I think that's a fair trade. Charlotte for Orlando. Charlotte for Orlando. That's a like-for-like trade. The trade you would not trade places with. I don't think so, no.

Their only good asset in Orlando's eyes is Stan Van Gundy. And weirdly, Sacramento. Yeah, I don't know. You wouldn't trade with Sacramento. I view them on the same wavelength as the Magic. There's a definite sort of bottom five or six of the NBA and the Magic are on it. Would Belichick have traded down from one to three and picked up the Lakers-Kings pick? Absolutely.

That's why I defend the trade. Belichick would have taken Dwight Howard and won a championship with him. He'd still be going backwards. He would get five and ten, then he would flip five into eight and something else, and he would just have 40 picks. If Dwight Howard were in the NBA,

Belichick would sign him right now and try to make him a pro bowler. That's the kind of recommendation project he would try to do. It would be the ultimate Belichick move. Yeah. I can save Dwight Howard. He would either cut him on August 15th or he would win him a Super Bowl. True.

I mean, we had Chad Ochocinco, we had Tim Tebow, we had Albert Hainsworth. Albert Hainsworth, yeah. Yeah, that is true. He likes the challenge of, oh, really? Dwight Howard's poisoned the last five teams he's been on? Sign him up. Come on in. Get him into the Patriot way. Yeah. Super Bowl champion. I think Dwight

Howard would fart on the Patriot way. Yeah, so I'm not optimistic about the Magic's rebuilding chances right now. So I just think what I see for Thursday is just getting some asset that we can put maybe alongside Gordon and build towards the future. All right, we have to go.

Okay. Thank you. All right, thanks to the Kevins, O'Connor and Clark. Thanks to Carvana. Browse, buy, trade in, and finance your next vehicle online from the comfort of your home. Choose as soon as next day delivery or pick up your vehicle from the world's first coin operator car vending machine. Wave bye-bye to buyer's remorse with their seven-day money-back guarantee.

Go to carvana.com slash B-S-C-R-A Nope, C-A-R-V-A-N-A dot com slash B-S for the new way to buy a car. And thanks to SimpliSafe. Rest easy knowing that your home and Kevin's home are protected with SimpliSafe when you install your SimpliSafe. Rest easy knowing that your home and Kevin's home are

protected with SimpliSafe when you install your SimpliSafe home security system. You're arming your home with powerful sensors that actually tell you if a door opens or if a window breaks. Please don't spend another night second guessing your home's safety. Go to simplisafebs.com. Get a 10% discount when you order today at SimpliSafe with two I's. Don't forget, I am on Against All Odds with Cousin Sal if you want some NBA draft props. Kevin, you like my thing about O'Connor's back, by the way. Do you like three Kentucky guys getting drafted minus 400? That would put Bam.

In the lottery? No, no, in the first round. Yes, I do. I think Bam will go in the first round. Bam's in the first round, right? Yeah, Bam will go in the first round. That was my lock of the week on Cousin Sal's podcast, so check that out.

And then we are back Friday, post-draft, mega podcast, me and Joe House, making fun of everything that just happened, and maybe even hopefully congratulating a couple teams. Enjoy the rest of the day. We'll see you on Friday. We'll see you on Friday. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings within. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings within.