The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Over/Under—Western Conference (Ep. 268)

Episode Date: October 4, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House, Jason Concepcion, and Kevin O'Connor to discuss the analytics cases for Devin Booker and Andrew Wiggins (8:00), Dennis Smith Jr.'s potential in Dallas (11:00), hypothetical Mike Conley Jr. trades (16:00), the Boogie experiment in New Orleans (22:00), Ricky Rubio's fit in Utah (28:00), the talent ceiling of the Clippers (35:00), the Nuggets' new look (43:00), Jeff Teague's average point guard play (50:00), the stars in OKC (56:00), the Spurs without Kawhi Leonard (1:05:00), the backcourt of Harden and CP3 (1:14:00), the Warriors' continued dominance (1:19:00), and the Lakers with Lonzo Ball (1:22:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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BS to save $20 on your first shirt. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com. That's where I write my column every Friday during the NFL season. Mailbag picks, a whole bunch of other stuff. We'll also have some NBA stuff during this season. Speaking of the NBA, Kevin O'Connor is here. He's on The Ringer NBA show. He writes for The Ringer.

Jason Concepcion is here. Let's go. Formerly of Binge Mode, Kevin O'Connor is here. He's on the Ringer NBA show. He writes for the Ringer. Jason Concepcion is here. Let's go. Formerly of Binge Mode, now defunct on hiatus. Rumors of a comeback. Rumors swirling. And also the Achievement Oriented Video Game Podcast. And then Joe House, the host of the Runaway

Smash It Podcast success. Check house! Oh, wait a minute. Oh, the other one the other topic house of cars there you go

yeah house Jason and I did over unders for the east which you can hear we'll be putting it up simultaneously with this podcast on the ringinger NBA show.

It is not available on the BS podcast. That's it. You don't get to hear us talk about the Knicks. You don't get to hear us talk about the Celtics. You don't get to hear us talk about Markel Fultz. Some controversial comments about Markel Fultz. Is it? Okay.

Leave Markel alone. I don't know. Come on. Leave Markel alone. No, we're just listening. Leave Markel alone for Chick-fil-A on House of Carbs. We had an honest conversation about Markella Fultz and a whole bunch of other stuff. You can hear that on the Ringer NFL show.

Right now, we are doing the West, the most fascinating conference of the two, by far, coming up. But first, Pearl Jam. All right. We're going to go from lowest win total for over-unders to highest win total of over-unders. Kevin O'Connor, he's such an innocent kid from Massachusetts. He's never gambled. He doesn't drink.

He's like a baby. I feel bad corrupting him, House. No, I'm exaggerating, but I feel bad corrupting him. I know. He's got a tattoo on his neck soon. Neck tattoo. We're bringing him right on down to the zipper zone. That's it.

Yeah, you missed in the eastern one, which I don't want to spoil, but I asked House a question about a possible Wizards trade, and he created the zipper zone. That's awesome. Sacramento has the lowest over-under of anyone in the

Western Conference, which surprised me because they are not, I don't think, as much of a tanking candidate as a couple other teams are going to mention. They added more people than I think any team has added other than maybe the Celtics. But I mean, De'Aaron Fox, Bogdan Bogdanovich, not Boyan Bogdanovich, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Justin Jackson, George Hill, 36-year-old Zach Randolph, 45-year-old Vince Carter, no ACL, Harry Giles. All of these guys are better than the guys they lost. Darren Collison, Langston Galloway, Rudy Gay, Ty Lawson,

Ben McLemore, Aaron Aflalo, Anthony Tauber. They're definitely better. I don't think there's any question. Crunch time. Cauley Stein, Zeebo, Bogdanovich, Buddy Hield, either George Hill or Fox. 27.5 seems low. What do you think, KLC?

I'm over all the way. They won 32 last year. Why are they five games worse? Just because of the conference. Yeah, it's only because of the conference. I think their team has a good mixture of youth and veterans, and they're not going to tank. They're not going to tank.

They're not going to tank. Can we all agree they're not going to tank? They're not going to tank. What do you think, Jason? They're not going to tank. They're not going to tank. Can we all agree they're not going to tank? What do you think, Jason? I love Darian Fox. I love him. And yeah, I agree with everything he said. This is a nice mix of youth and veteran guys who kind of know how to win.

They've got more talent than they had last year. They won 32 games last year. But the conference is better. Yeah, but I still think they win more than 27 games. And House, we don't think this team tanks. No, I love this team. We talked about this

a little bit yesterday. I call this team the old folks home because you have a bunch of these vets that are getting matched up with, you know, these young fellas

who are going to come in and they're all ready to be apprentices to gain the wisdom to take. So I want to know Zeebo's going to take who under his wing? Is he going to take Giles under his wing? Is that good or bad?

Well, which one of Zeebo's? We're going to match them up, right? De'Aaron Fox is going to be under the tutelage of George Hill, right? But I meant, what Zeebo wing? Are we talking about his grit and grind wing? Are we talking about his occasionally I get involved in some giant marijuana story that they eventually drop the charges wing? What wing is it?

It's important for all these guys to have a point of view on what they're going to do after the NBA. Z-Bo's just getting ready for his next career. I think that might be very helpful for Harry Giles. He might be thinking about his next career. There you go. How far the money will fall on Harry Giles. What's a five-star recruit? You love the go. How far the mighty have fallen. Hey, Giles. I love the over. What's a five-star recruit?

You love the over. I love the over. I'm betting this over. This is minus 125. I'm going to put some denomination that fits that. So KSC, the minus 25 means there's been action on the over. The over is popular. All of us like the over.

All of this makes me nervous. There's going to be a lot of action on the over. But all of it makes me nervous because it's the over. The over's popular. All of us like the over. All of this makes me nervous. There's going to be a lot of action on the over. But all of it makes me nervous because it's the Kings. Tate, you have an opinion on this? I like the Kings. Okay. Everyone likes the Kings. Wow.

Okay. Phoenix Suns, 29 wins. They added Josh Jackson. Didn't really lose anybody. They still have a confusing team that I'm not sure what they're going for, but I know what they're going for in one way. This team's going to tank. Oh, yeah.

This team, somebody in the West is going to look at this landscape and be like, hey, you know what we should do is just keep losing and get a top three pick. This is the logical candidate. They also have some trade pieces potentially. I think Eric Bledsoe's a trade piece. Tyson Chandler's a trade piece. I don't know what to make of the two forwards they took last year chris and bender koc which one do you like more chris or bender oh chris right now um but at the same time bender is

somebody we shouldn't give up on i think just because he got off to a slow start i think bender long term is a guy i'd absolutely take but right now you're leaning towards're leaning towards Chris. I think this team is really interesting because you're right. They could be a tanking candidate. But at the same time, they were in the conversation for Kyrie. They were trying to add guys. It was more than a conversation. I think at some point, everybody got on house party. All the GMs were looking at each other and trying to decide whether to do this.

Phil Jackson couldn't figure out how to log in and the joke fell through that's what happened i'm not laughing at that i don't know what house party is and i couldn't log into that because you're phil jackson's demo um yeah so it's just stoners who eat that right the irony of the phoenix is if they're in the east i don't even know if they're one of the worst five teams. Really? And maybe they don't decide to tank at that point. Because they do have talent. Yeah, they got a nice young team.

What do you buy? Booker and Wiggins are the two most polarizing advanced metric guys. There's cases to be made that both of those guys are actually not stars and that they hurt their teams as much as they help them. Do you buy this? No, because these guys are like 21, 22 years old, and you're expecting them to be what they're going to be when they're 28. So like Wiggins, because he was the number one pick,

because he was overhyped out of high school, everybody expected him to be a superstar right off the bat, when in actuality he was a guy that needed years of development to add to his game. And it's the same thing with Devin Booker. Like Coach Cal said earlier this year um I forget where when this was but he mentioned how Devin Booker barely ever ran pick and roll at Kentucky and now it's like his main play type so obviously he needs time to develop that would you trade Bledsoe as soon as possible just to turn the team over now yeah I think I don't know if Booker's your point guard but I'd like to see him get even more reps as a playmaker

to really develop him in that area. Hass, what do you think of this team? I like them for the under, but I agree that they're interesting. I found myself enjoying watching them. Yeah, I think they're a fun garbage time, West Coast, League Pass. Exactly. 1 o'clock at night, East Coast time, when you've fallen asleep for three hours and you wake up

because your stomach hurts because you had two meals. And then Phoenix is on. You're like, hey, Phoenix is on. I think the Phoenix LA games could be some of the sneaky best West Coast entertainment we're going to have this year. Agreed. Booker against Lonzo? Booker is a threat to go for 60 at any given time. And give up 70?

And give up 70 and have it be like the worst looking 60 point game like you've ever seen. And they have guys that can dunk, so that's exciting. Obviously, you hope Bledsoe is healthy. He plays like a boulder rolling down a hill. Yeah. They're fun to watch.

They're not good, but they're fun to watch. Josh Jackson? Does he start? Does he play 35 minutes a game? I don't know. After they gave the money to TJ Warren, he's probably starting. What do we think of that? That was a lot of money for TJ Warren.

That made me do a double take. Danny liked TJ Warren. I like him too. That's the zipper thing. He showed major flashes. But $50 million worth of flashes? In a league where the cat was going backwards? No, he hasn't shown $50 million worth of flashes. But you're paying for projected future performance

potential yeah and yeah you might have just played yourself by giving him that but at the same time maybe that deal looks pretty damn good if he does kind of develop his scoring and his consistency like he did show in the past yeah people gave Steph Curry's deal a hard time because he couldn't keep those ankles healthy

and then everybody looked like god damn that Steph Curry deal was pretty good. That is like the all-time best-case scenario for this conversation. Don't compare TJ Warren to Steph Curry. It's a deal. Are we all going under for this? Yes.

Yes? Under. Yeah, it has to be, right? But it'll be close. I feel bad for the Suns. I agree. I also, I think they're going to be in a dangerous spot, because you missed when we covered the East,

but there's at least three teams, maybe four in the East, that are going to just abandon ship and are going to be below 25 wins. So if you're Phoenix, at some point you're going to hit a point where it's like, does it even make sense to tank? You're going to be probably five or six anyway. So we'll see. The Lakers, I can't wait to have this conversation. I'm very excited about the Lakers.

You know what? Let's hold the Lakers. Oh, wow. We're going excited about the Lakers. You know what? Let's hold the Lakers. Oh, wow. We're going to hold the Lakers to the end. How about that? Whoa. I'm more excited to talk about the Lakers than any other person on the team in this list.

Dallas, over, under, 35 and a half. It seemed low. I was confused by it. Then I looked at the West. I looked at the West some more. I looked at the West I looked at the West some more I looked at Dallas' bench Dallas goes Noel, Dirk, Barnes, Matthews Dennis Smith Jr. I assume is their crunch time

the bench falls off the bench has Seth Curry it's got Josh McRoberts, Tate's Charlotte MVP from four years ago, hasn't really done anything since JJ Barea and then a bunch of ifs, whats, maybes, who knows. And that's what's going to kill them more than anything because Dirk is, is he 40 this year officially?

39, 40? Something like that. This is year 20 for him. It's one of those teams I like the top five, but I find it hard to imagine everybody staying healthy and I could see more going wrong than right. KOC, what do you think? I have under for them right now, but I don't feel great

about that because I like their bench a little bit more than you do. What do you like on it? You have New Orleans Noel coming off your bench. Are we sure he's not starting? I don't think he's going to be starting. Why wouldn't they start New Orleans Noel? I saw that on the depth chart that he wasn't starting.

I thought it was a mistake. Yeah, I am pretty sure Noel will be coming off the bench. So you have your versatile big man. I think Seth Curry, spark plug, not great, but a spark plug. Dorian Finney-Smith, versatile defender. I like Dwight Powell, another guy who can do some things. Come on, KOC. They have some good talent, but I'm still taking the under because they're so young.

If you're taking the over, you're relying on Dennis Smith to really be spectacular right away. They're better off. Dirk plays 45 games, misses two months, comes back for 10 games for the retirement tour at the end. Maybe they're able to trade Barnes or Matthews. They're better off. It's more logical for them to go down than up.

And they try to be like, oh, man, we have a chance to get the eight seed and get destroyed in round one. I agree with that. I would just give the car keys to Dennis Smith. Let him hit a couple pylons. Let him hit a couple highway defiders. Let him flip the car a couple times. Just let him do it.

Jason, what do you think? I think it's under two. That said, Rick Carlisle, not a noted lover of young guys. Yeah, which could be bad for Dennis Smith. Could be bad for Dennis Smith, which is, as KOC mentioned, that's the guy they really need to be the guy who explodes. All these other guys are known quantities. I mean, except for Noel, who's going to be motivated

after giving up a ton of money. I'm trying to think of scenarios where that's worked in the NBA, where the guy thought he was going to make a crazy amount of money. Waiters. But Deion had no offers. Yeah, that's the thing. Noel went into last summer thinking he was going to make $85 million, and there was no offer. Didn't we all in some way? Yeah.

I'm shocked on it. Last year at this time, when the rumors were out, it's like, well, are you going to want to pay Nerland's Noel $20 million? Yeah. And it's like, nobody was giving offer. Didn't we all in some way? Last year at this time when the rumors were out, it's like, well, are you going to want to pay New Orleans the well $20 million? It's like nobody was giving that. The answer is no. Yeah, so I got a soft under on this. The Knicks fans,

we talked about this on the Easter Conference pod. At what point does the Frankie Nicotine versus Dennis Smith thing just start haunting them? Like December 15th? I like Frankie Nicotine, I feel like just start haunting them? Like December 15th? I mean, I like Frankie Nicotine. I feel like more than a lot of people do. This is great for you, Jason.

I like Frankie Nicotine. I put him on like the rookie dark horses list. I love this. Thank you, KOT. Just because we haven't seen him this summer doesn't mean that he's not a quality prospect. There you go. That's right. That's good.

I went under on the Knicks. Yeah. Okay. We're going under on Dallas. All due respect to Rick Carlisle. All due respect to Dirk Nowitzki. But look, there's 15 teams in this conference, and 11 of them have a chance to be at least good.

So got to be concerned. This is a team that it's kind of made me sad. Memphis. We're all going under on Dallas, by the way. Memphis, 37 and a half over under. I can't. They lost all of Grit and Grind. They lost Zeebo and Tony Allen.

I feel like I can't smash the under button fast enough for this team. Let's hear the argument. I mean, listen, yeah, they lost Grit and Grind, so they have no identity. What is this team going to be next year? Parsons, will he ever play again? Conley and Gasol are great. Gasol, obviously coming off injury. I just have no idea

what this team is. Tyreek Evans is like on his third go-round trying to be a point guard in the NBA. Like, Matt Lamar, like, I just don't know what this team is at all. It seems like Wayne Seldon might be their starting two guard. Is that possible? I kept looking at their

roster trying to... That's great. Well, that's worse. Wayne Seldon, at least, maybe. I'm with you, Jason. I don't see it. I think of anything, you throw in the combination

of how tough the conference is, the injury factor, and let tough the conference is the injury factor and let's be honest the trade factor this is another logical trade candidate if things are going wrong and they're heading the wrong way and you have to have an honest conversation like we can't make this team better we're hampered by the salary cap

we have an owner who either has to sell the team or double down and put more money into it and buy out the minority partners. And is one of the weirdest owners in the league. Yeah. I don't know what the trade is because Conley makes so much money, it would be hard to trade him.

But Mike Conley is fantastic. And if that's a chess piece that's out there, people are going to pay for him. Same thing for Gasol. I think he's got real value. They also have a situation with their pick where the Celtics eventually get their unprotected pick. They've got to figure out that part of this too. I don't see any way you can go over for them as much as I respect Gasol.

You're going over? I'm going over. Give me the case. What if they're better without Zach Randolph and better without Tony Allen? Make the case. Two guys who can't space the floor effectively. What if they're better with having a guy like Jermichael Green space the floor from three-point

range at the four? I think there's a possibility that that opens the floor more and helps enhance Mike Conley's game. Chandler Parsons, if he stays healthy, and that's a super big if, but if he's able to play even just 40 games,

if Parsons is back and he's effective in those games, that could be good for them to have more floor space. I'm not, I'm not the biggest grit and grind fan. There's a reason why I got bounced in the playoffs every year. And it's because I couldn't space the floor. Wow. I'm over on the Grizzlies, but not by a lot. My favorite part of that whole thing was when you said

Chandler Parsons might play 40 games. Have you been like Chandler Parsons might play 40 games. Chandler Parsons, I'm concerned. He's been on Instagram in the past few weeks, like, screenshotting his DMs from various groupies, which is troubling. That's troubling. He seems like he's lost

his mind. He's not behaving in a rational way as a public figure. I am legitimately troubled by that. And he's like sliding on Instagram Live of models and whatnot. He's like saying show tits. It is like really, really troubling. Really troubling

performance by Jalen Parsons. I think they can tread water and potentially be close to 500 for the first three months. But then at some point they're going to have a come to Jesus moment and decide what they want to do with Conley and Gasol. I think they had that come-to-Jesus moment leading into this offseason,

and that's why all of these guys that they let go, and they're in a mode for rebranding, redefining themselves. And I think they're a perfect candidate to take advantage of this last year of the tank and try and build a young core around some of the players that KOC mentioned. Do we think you can be a championship contender anymore if Gasol and Conley are your top two guys?

No. So if I'm starting there, as much as I like both of those guys, and I can't make round three if they're my top two, I'm going the other way. What makes us think this team is going to blow it up when they gave over $20 million annually to Chandler Parsons? I mean, when we knew that was a risky deal to take, I think they're probably a team.

That was more than risky. They kind of lost their minds. I don't understand why they did that. Every team in the league does something colossally stupid like that. But the red flag for that was that Mark Cuban didn't want to pay him. Mark Cuban doesn't want to pay Channel Parsons. Mark Cuban already paid him. He didn't need round two.

Mark Cuban's like, I'm good. Go get your money. I'm Memphis. I'm running from that. All right, so everybody's going under, but KOC on that. New Orleans is next. New Orleans is 39 and a half. Oof.

New Orleans added Tony Allen. They added Rayjean Rondo. Ian Clark. Yeah. Frank Jackson. They lost Tim Frazier. They have, I would say, a top three strangest roster to look at

where you have Boogie and Anthony Davis, who probably shouldn't be on the same team. And then two point guards, Holiday and Rondo. Rondo can't shoot. Holiday can't stay on the court. And then a bunch of dudes. Rondo's been better shooting in recent years, though. I mean, ever since he was traded by Boston,

he's shooting like 37%, 38% from three. It's not like he's jacking threes. They're wide open. Yeah, of course. But it's better than what he was doing in the past. I love KFC still rides for Rondo. He's one of my all-time favorites for all these years.

He was the top of his game. The ringer's Tommy Alter, too, in the office yesterday, says, if Rondo doesn't get hurt, we beat the Celts in five. They get spanked. She's adamant about it. He's like, Rondo's still good. We beat the Celts in five. Like, they get stuck. She's adamant about it. He's like, Rondo's still good.

We beat the Salts in five. Rondo sucks now. I don't see how this team succeeds. And I don't see a path for keeping Boogie either. And it feels like a Boogie trade

waiting to happen. Let's reenact the zipper moment from the Eastern Conference podcast. I asked House, is there an auto porter and an unprotected pick down the road and something else

and maybe Gortat's in there or whatever and you get Boogie back and House started pulling his pants down. I offered up some other things unprotected. I was very enthusiastic for that deal. The theory is, if the Wizards can just end up with Beowild and Boogie, who cares?

You'll figure out the rest later, but if that's your core, you can compete for the title with those three guys. Absolutely. Sign me up if I'm the Wizards. Is Boogie on this team in March? Yeah, I think so. I think so just because if you're the Pelicans and you trade Boogie, what are you saying to Anthony Davis?

I mean, then you're setting yourself up to have to move him. I think you kind of have to stick it out. I would trade both of them. I mean, I would too. I just don't think there's any path to contending with Davis before his contract's up, and you've already messed it up. And I am never an advocate of trade one of the best eight guys in the league. I think it's usually a mistake.

In this case, we've seen too many times now these guys fleeing for greener pastures as soon as they can. And there's no path to compete with them. So really, they should be doing this now. They won't. Their ownership's a disaster. But it's too bad. I actually think, do you think they would do the boogie trade over again

if they could do that over again? No, I think they'd still do it. I just think because think, do you think they would do the boogie trade over again if they could do that over again? No, I think they'd still do it. I just think because, I mean like. I agree, it was a worthwhile experiment for them to find out because what if it worked? Yeah. And it could. Would you rather have Buddy Hield and Darren Fox

or DeMarcus Cousin for four times the money? I mean, it would have been the 10th pick, so it wouldn't have been Fox. Good point. So it would have been, who was 10th so it wouldn't have been Fox. Good point. So it would have been, who was 10th? That was the Zach Collins trade down. Whoever they would have taken in that slot. Maybe it would have been Monk.

But Boogie might have made them better. Maybe they followed the 12th pick. So maybe that's like Buddy and Luke Kennard. Yeah, I think they still make it. You guys are right. You going over or under? They're 9.5. I'm an under on them.

I don't think it's going to work, but I really am rooting for it to work. I want to see two dominant bigs. I'm going to go slight under. I think they improved from last year, but I see them at like 37 wins. Hass? It is an ex-crucible. I mispronounced it. Ex-crucible. Ex-crucible?

Sure. Ex-crucible backcourt. And as a result, I am taking the under. The Drew Holiday situation is tough because if you don't pay him, you're basically waving both middle fingers at those guys. And yet, Drew Holiday, we've argued about him in the past on the pod. I don't think he's one of the best 15-point guards. I don't think he needs to stay in the court. I think the think he's one of the best 15-point guards. I don't think he'd stay in the court. I think the

league really undervalues their ability. And we saw the same thing with Gallinari. It's like, great, Gallinari. I like Gallinari. He can't stay in the court. He misses 25 games a year. And you're paying him $20 million. And it's like, yeah, when he's out there, it seems like a good idea. And then when he's in street clothes, it seems like a terrible

idea. And I think Drew Hollett is like that. Well, I think for the Pelicans, it was, it's like a situation where, you know, if you're in a, if you're in the desert and you need a drink of water, you'll pay whatever you have to pay for it. Who was going to play point guard for them? They had to pay him. He's right there. His name is Rajon Rondo.

But that's like what I'm saying. Like they got it. They had to pay him. They had to pay him. Well, we're all going under. Yeah. Let's take a quick break to talk about Gillette. Did you know the tip of a Gillette razor blade measured on an atomic scale, meaning their blade edges are thinner than a single brain cell?

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and is at sole discretion of the retailer. All right. Well, the good teams have arrived. I'm calling Utah a good team. 41 wins is the over-under. There's been some action on the over. The over is up to minus 130.

They lost Gordon Hayward. They lost George Hill, who I'm not even sure how much that hurt them since he tailed off as the year went along. They lost Fat Boris, who just was really bad for them last year, and I think they were disappointing them. And then Trey Lyles, who never made it. They added Ricky Rubio, who I've always liked.

I like him on that team. I like him with some of the guys on that team, you know, because I think it's a smart basketball team, guys who know where to go and what to do. Donovan Mitchell, who KOC loved heading into the draft. Love him. And looks like he's going to be a guy who plays right away.

They added Jerebko from the Celtics, who is somebody who can't play for 10 games, and then all of a sudden he's in there and he's making threes in TNT on Thursday nights. Seth Filosha, good defender. Tony Bradley. 41 seems low to me. This is the first one where i was just surprised i think they have i would say they have a better chance of grabbing the eight spot than portland does i'm going over i'm also going over like 43 they play at altitude

they're still going to be a very good defensive team rubio is a great defender they're going to grind people down and they're going to win more than 41 games. There's a defensive lineup they can play with. Rubio, Mitchell, Favors if he can stay in the court, Gobert, Cephalosha. This team will be able to get stops if they need to. I actually kind of like the team. I think there's some Ewing theory potential with Gordon Hayward.

I agree. I'm going to be honest. What the hell did they win with Gordon Hayward? Nothing. Plus, I think Snyder's a good coach. And I think the collective effect on the remaining guys of getting to the playoffs and getting that taste and competing at that level, you can't understate or undervalue what a transformation that can kind of deliver

to the remaining core. And they all have now this something to prove thing. So I the over here as well can't see when i was going through the teams before this i never expected all of us would be over on this team because like i i'm over i thought i would be like maybe one of the two that would because people like granted they lost hayward rodney hood can step up i mean if you look at his numbers with hayward off the floor like per 36 they line right up with hayward's numbers that he put up last season. So not saying he'll do that, but Hood has the ability to elevate his role to really take on some of the scoring that they're losing from Hayward. And then add on the other young guys they have, the ability to play different roles.

I also think Rubio is just a flat-out upgrade from George Hill. I like Rubio. He's definitely better Rubio George Hill was awesome the first 30 games he was making a case for the all-star game yeah but then what happened that's it he always seems to get hurt I don't think they were very unhappy to see him leave either was the feedback I was hearing

but one of the things they learned last year especially in the playoffs is that Joe Engels is a starter and is a good basketball player and should probably play more. And now he'll get to play more. So I look at the Hayward thing, and I think Hayward's an excellent basketball player. I really do.

They can replace maybe 80% of his numbers. You know what I mean? It's not like a Paul George thing where, and I actually think Indiana will be able to recover from the Paul George thing a little bit too, but Paul George is just like, wow, we have to replace 23 shots. How are we going to do this? Who are we giving these to?

With Utah, Hayward wasn't taking 25 shots a game anyway. And Hood to me is, you mentioned him earlier, I like him. I also think he just disappears. He is injured. He's one of just disappears. He is in dream time. He's one of those guys who's either in the game or it's like, where is he? Did he play? Did he show up in the arena? He's just not there.

I think that's a function, though, of that team. Like last season, they were so loaded. They were like 11 deep, it felt like to me. So I understood why Hood, you know. I saw Joe's back for another year, too. I think that's fine. I liked how Gobert handled the Hayward thing. I liked that he was pissed off about it

and took it personally and went right at him. And it does seem like Gobert seems to believe he's way up there. But I think this is a good team. I am confused by the over. I don't, like, the Clippers are almost three wins higher than them, and I don't understand that at all. I'm going over.

It's probably going to be a lock for me. Portland, 42 and a half. They lost Alan Crabb. They lost Festus Azili, who I'm not even sure they had. Zach Collins, they traded up, got him, but he's buried behind all these dudes.

Swanigan, Mark Titus, fan club president of Swanigan, he's there. Look, a lot of it depends on Nurkic. It it depends on Nurkic, and if that was— It all depends on Nurkic. Well, whether that was legit or not. The post-Denver trade, he was a legit, above-average,

borderline all-star starting center, and I don't know whether I believe it or not. What do you think, KFC? He lost 34 pounds, but he's coming off a major injury. Obviously, it was dominant at the end of the season but i'm still scared after his years in denver where it's just pure laziness on the court um i think nurkic could be great and if he's great they'll be great but if nurkic is bad they're definitely an under for

an under and i kind of lean towards nurkic kind of slow start coming back from that injury i worry has i'm right there with KFC. I'm going to take a slight under on them. I'm sorry to Portland. I've been taking the over many years in a row for Portland. This is my under year. I'm going to take the slight over. I think it is going to be a slow start for Nurkic.

That said, you know, the thing in Denver was really just he got stuck behind Jokic and then he lost his focus and here he's he's gonna be uh inspired to play really hard especially coming off the injury um and being such an important part of that run they made last year so I'm gonna take the slide over I think they went 43 games it feels like a 41 41 season to me which I think they had either last year or the year before. Yeah, it's 41. They also seem to me like a trade. This seems like a trade team to me. They have too many front court

guys. Evan Turner didn't fit in last year with what they had as a big salary. It has some years left, but it does seem like you take him and you take somebody else's expensive mistake, one of those things. I don't think they have enough shooting other than the two guards, which McCollum and Lillard have great shooting.

That's a lot of shooting. But putting people around them, I don't like the mix of people they have to put around them, I guess is my point. So it feels like a trade. Yeah, someone like Anthony Morrow is going to have to play a lot to space the floor. Who hasn't been good in five years. I just don't see it. And if they don't have

spacing from their front court, it could hurt their back court's ability to get to the rim. It's interesting. In the Golden State series, they went toe-to-toe with the Warriors in that one game when those two guys were going at the same time. They have the potential to be the

upset team night-to-night, but I don't see them winning more than 41, not in the West. It would be more likely to me that they would go the other way and make a trade. I also think it hurts to lose Crabb. I like Crabb. I don't think he's an all-star, but he's a good shooter who I think is hard to fall on those dudes.

He's important for them. Yeah. They've mismanaged the salary cap. It's funny. Some of these teams have made terrible trades and then good trades after the fact, right? Like Neil O'Shea, like the Turner contract was awful. But then the Nurkic trade was great, you know?

And I actually liked trading up. I thought he took the wrong guy. I would have taken Mock. But I thought anytime you can trade 15 and 20 for 10 you would have loved that trade more if they took mitchell or yeah definitely but at the same time like if you're drafting by need they already have two dominant guards yeah but it doesn't hurt to have a third one though either yeah let's talk about blinkist really quickly the world's most successful people all have one thing in common they are hungry for knowledge reading and learning every chance they

get since you're listening to this podcast, you probably feel the same way. Introducing the Blinkist app. Over 2,000 bestselling nonfiction books transformed into powerful packs you can read or listen to. In just 15 minutes, learn essential ideas from the best books in your field or subjects you never knew you loved. With Blinkist, you can feast your mind on key ideas from bestselling nonfiction books like Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, The 4-Hour Workbook, Thinking Fast and Slow, All on Your Way Home, More Knowledge, Less Time. Not to mention they are constantly adding new titles from best-of lists. You're always getting the most powerful ideas in a convenient, made-for-mobile format. I wonder if Shea Serrano's new book is going to be on Blinkist.

So much information. I don't know how you'd condense it to 15 minutes. Right now, Blinkist has a special offer just for our audience. Go to Blinkist.com slash BS. Get a free trial or three months off your yearly plan when you join today. That is B-L-I-N-K-I-S-T. Blinkist.com slash BS. Start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. All righty. The Clippers. 43 and a half wins is either ridiculously low or ridiculously high, and I can't decide. I stared at this for a while.

They got rid of basically most of their team. Everybody's gone. Chris Paul, JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, Raymond Felton. We'll never have to watch Jamal Crawford play with Austin Rivers again. They had a Gallinari, T. Dosich, Jamal Crawford, Raymond Felton. We'll never have to watch Jamal Crawford play with Austin Rivers again. They had a Gallinari. T. Dosich, who's already winning the internet.

Pat Beverly, Lou Williams, Sam Decker. Could argue it's a better team on paper other than the fact that they lost one of the best point guards of all time. Blake Griffin, everyone thought he wasn't going to be back until December, including me. He's back already. He's back. 43.5 seems low. And yet, I almost want you guys to talk me into it one way or the other.

I can't decide. House, you go first. I'm taking the under by half a game. Okay. I think the Clippers are a 43-win team. That's exactly how I was feeling. They feel like a 43-win team. That's exactly how I was feeling. They feel like a 43-39 team. But when like Gallinari and Blake and everybody's healthy at the same time, they'll go like 20-8, and then guys will start getting hurt again.

See, I'm prepared to be mad at myself for this. I'm prepared to acknowledge that I'm a big dummy for going this way because I do like very much what Pat Beverly is bringing to this team, and he's so motivated. I love Shea Serrano's piece with Pat Beverly is bringing to this team. And he's so motivated. I love Shea Serrano's piece with Pat of a week ago or so. And this team could go out and win 50. Like they have 50-win talent. I agree.

I would say they have 52-win potential. Here's the limiting factor, and I don't think they can fire him quick enough. It's Doc. I think Doc's going to hold him back, and I think they're going to be a 43-win team as a result of Doc. And Doc having to manage all these new guys. That's it. I don't believe in Doc.

You have Lou Williams, and you have Rivers. They're going to move the ball this year, though, guys. They were moving it the other night. They were moving it. I'm going to go over. I agree with you. They were moving it. I'm going to go over. I mean, I agree with you on paper. This is a way deeper team than they've had in the past.

Gallinari feels it's ironic to finally get the three they were looking for when Chris Paul leaves. I love Tito Sitch off the bench. He's 30, looks 45, and passes it like he has just no regard for anything that's going on. He eats cheeseburgers for breakfast. My kind of guy. Love it. There's like a 20% chance he's going to smoke cigs at halftime.

I think it's like an 85% chance. Beverly Lou Williams, that's great. He might smoke cigarettes and have a milkshake at halftime. Whatever the three things you shouldn't do, he'll probably do it. T.O. is like, you're welcome on House of Carbs anytime. I mean, the thing you really worry about is Griffin's health. You know? And I like

this team to win 45 games. Over. Over. Okay. I think, yes, injury risks is very real with them. The amount of games Blake Griffin, Gallinari, and Patrick Beverly even have missed over the past three, four years. However, the upside of this team is way too high for me to take the under at 43.5.

I just think the way they moved the ball the other night was a good sign. 25 assists on 35 makes. I think this team, this is what you would have hoped for when Chris Paul was there, but you couldn't do that because he was a ball dominant on the greatest point guards ever. But this is how it could unlock Blake Griffin as a player. Gallinari in the system playing off Blake. Beverly in a ball movement system. I think if Doc is successfully able to install the system, which is a big question as House mentioned, they're going to be great.

So they have two big ifs, but I'm kind of taking the over on their first year together. House I'm ditching you it's okay. Here's why I think as KOC said the potential of them being 44 or higher is just greater than the potential of them being 43

and under. Yeah I my own self said they could easily be a 50 win team and they took the under so I get it What's it Gallinari misses 20 games Blake misses 25 said they could easily be a 50-win team and they took the under. I get it. I'm right there with you. What's it, Gallinari misses 20 games, Blake misses 25, Beverly misses 12. It's still probably like a 41

and 41 team. They'll still be 500. There's also, the other reason I want to go over just for my own sanity, Chris Paul is like the ultimate Ewing Theory candidate that's probably ever existed in the NBA in the last 12 years. I mentioned Hayward earlier, but Hayward's not really.

Chris Paul is considered to be a superstar. He's the point god. He is somebody that gets mentioned any time we talk about the best point guards of all time and has just failed repeating the playoffs we've written about on The Ringer, we've come up with explanations for it. And the fact that he's so efficient, it actually hurts him in the playoffs.

He's so ball dominant that it actually becomes predictable in the playoffs. We've laid out, you can read all the pieces. Maybe with Beverly, somebody like Blake Griffin will be a little more motivated. More of a selfless guy. I think Blake is the X factor because, as we've talked about a million times, he was the third best player in the 2015 playoffs, those first two rounds. He's had just

75 different things go wrong. He's actually, I like when the offense runs through him. I always thought him and Chris together never really totally made sense. The question for me is, do Blake and DeAndre make sense? This is something we've looked at over and over again. Can Blake space the floor?

That's kind of really the question. He was shooting more corner threes the other night in their first preseason game, so I think that's a good sign. If he can just spot up and shoot threes off the catch, then it can work. But the problem is if he's only shooting like 28% from three and nobody's really worried about him out there, then it could be an issue. And the other thing we should mention, he's 28, and you laid out a couple times in the ring all the different injuries he's had.

It's a long list. The history of the league is that this doesn't get better, that by age 28, 29, if you're a guy who gets injured all the time, that is who you are, and that's what is going to keep happening. And whether he has bad luck, whether his body's brittle, I don't know. But he definitely wasn't as explosive last year. And there's a possibility. It could be like you see it in football all the time.

All of a sudden, Adrian Peterson isn't good anymore. It just happens. He's tailored his game, though. I mean, I think Blake kind of gets a bad rap in the sense that early in his career, it was like, oh, this guy just dunks. That's all he does. And then as he started to increase his range, be able to take mid-range shots, and then longer twos,

and then even threes, now it's like, oh, he never dunks anymore. And he's even cleaned up the really annoying, whiny shit that he's like, oh, he never dunks anymore. And he's even like cleaned up like the really annoying, whiny shit that he used to do. Like he does not do that anymore. And he doesn't really get credit for it. And I think him and DeAndre, I think that partnership, personalities aside, works really well because DeAndre does all the shit

that Blake doesn't want to do. Blake doesn't want to protect the rim. Blake doesn't want to rebound. Like, you know, like DeAndre's good at that. That team definitely was poisoned last year. all the shit that Blake doesn't want to do. Blake doesn't want to protect the rim. Blake doesn't want to rebound. DeAndre's good at that. That team definitely was poisoned last year. Yeah. It had some of the worst chemistry we've seen.

They never recovered from game six against Houston. They never did. Ever. That's like a ghost that lives in that arena. That's right. I think one of Jason's points that he brought up about DeAndre does all the stuff Blake doesn't want to do, it's good because you can play that way with DeAndre Jordan or you can take him off the floor and put Blake at the five

and play more versatile, switching screens. So they have the ability to play different styles, and that's another thing that I think could bode well for them this year. Could you see a scenario where they start out like 9-10, Balmer fires Doc, and then they finish 48-34? That's how I lose this bet. That's how I lose this bet.'s how i lose this bet so you need them to keep doc for the year yeah too that's right i actually think they do the opposite i

think they come out really strong as they did last year and people like whoa clippers and then fade down the stretch and then yeah fade down the stretch the one thing on on deandre who's feeding him all those you know um dive to the hole ducks yeah. Tio. Yeah, Tio. Wow, we're putting a lot on Tio now. 30-year-old Tio has never been the lead. Cheeseburger Tio is my guy, as you know, but that's a lot. I got to say, I'm a fan of Pat Beverly. I'm excited to see him run a team.

We haven't seen it the last four years. I don't think he'll be bad at it. I think he'll be okay. He'll be good. I think he had some really special moments when James Harden was out of games. He stepped up and elevated his play, especially passing the ball. I think Beverly will be good.

I mean, I'm the guy who voted Austin Rivers for second team all defense last year and meant it. I think he's a good defensive player. I like him and Beverly together with DeAndre behind him. I don't know whether Doc will coach defense or whether they'll be instructed to do the right things, but I like that team. I'm going to go over.

All right, Denver Nuggets. Man, this is, who was last year's team that everybody was blowing themselves about? Minnesota. And that didn't go well. Right. And now this year it's Denver. Denver's over is 45 and a half.

They added Paul Millsap. They lost Danilo Gallinari. They added a couple other people, Trey Lyles, Tyler Lydon. Crunch time. Jokic, Millsap, Wilson Chandler, Gary Harris, and who's your point guard, KOC? Jameer Nelson or Emmanuel Moutier? I mean, that's part of the equation here.

Moutier's not that sound like the preseason. Let me just get this out here. Destination for Mike Conley. Oh. What are you thinking? I don't think they have enough. They may not have enough, but that's... Well, so they do have some pieces to trade.

Like Farid, he's been making $12 million a year since 1990. I think that he's either expiring this year or next year, but he's a trade piece. Jamal Murray, they wouldn't even discuss with Kyrie, right? Do we believe that? I actually don't believe that. I think they would have traded for Kyrie in a second. I think Kyrie told them he didn't want to go there.

I think Hernan Gomez has trade potential. Don't underestimate Malik Beasley. I know that's kind of a deep cut, but I like Malik Beasley a lot. We like the opinion. We're not looking down on you. You pull these random dudes out of your butt every year. I think Denver, I mean, I called him a sleeper yesterday

on Twitter, and apparently 45 and a half that's not much of a sleeper. Yeah, they apparently 45 and a half That's not much of a sleeper They're not much of a sleeper This year I'm definitely an over on Denver I think Jokic is for real One of the best passing pigs we have in this game It's just uncanny

Millsap, good passer too Could stretch the floor They got a versatile team that can do different things Gary Harris is going to step up. He's going to elevate this year. They have a lot of good players. And maybe this is the year Emmanuel Moutier kind of takes a step forward as well. What do we think of this team defensively?

That would be my fear. Not great. That's why I'm going under, guys. Ooh. Yeah. Wow. Somebody's got to lose in the West. All these teams can't go 49- 33 and then Golden State wins 70.

I just don't see it defensively. You know, Minnesota last year, I would love that was all in. Oh, Tibbs is going to teach them. And Minnesota had real, real holes defensively that ruined their season. They just couldn't get stops. I don't see how this Denver team's going to get stops. Millsap's the best defender they have, but he's now in his early 30s.

He might even be like, what's he, like 33, 32, 33, somewhere there? 32, I'm pretty sure. Gary Harris undersized. All of the point guards they have, none of those guys are going to be able to guard anyone. Jokic is not a defensive stalwart. I just don't see it.

I don't think they're going to get 46 wins of defensive stops. I like them offensively. They seem like more of a fantasy team than a real team. Harris can defend. Moutier can defend, though. Harris is 6'2", though. Yeah. Like, what happens when they play OKC and, like, you know,

I guess you would stand next to Andre Roberson. I think Jokic is really the issue defensively. Like, he can't anchor your team, and he can't really switch on the perimeter Farid sucks defensively too How much is Farid going to play though? I hope Hernan Gomez plays ahead of him He should Hernan Gomez is good I don't like teams

Teams make me nervous that can't defend point guards or big guys And this team can't do either This team can't protect the rim and can't defend point guards So everybody else is going over? I like it. I like being a rogue under. Wait, did I pick? I'm going to go,

I would actually go slight under. I think they win 45 games. This is a 50-50 because I'm over. I'm with KOC on this team. Okay, great. I just think they're going to be so efficient offensively.

I just love that Milsap addition. He just has, Milsap and Djokic is like, that's a really interesting experiment. I like that too. It feels like I can't wait to see that one it feels like 44 and 38 or 46 and 36

the thing that does give me pause is like this is a team that should play up tempo but doesn't really have the personnel to do it and

defensively as you said you know like I mean like Denver when they've had their best success historically played up tempo

move move the ball altitude yeah run guys till they And Denver, when they've had their best success historically, played up-tempo. Move. Move the ball. Altitude. Yeah. Run guys till they can't breathe. They need a guard. There's a guard out there. Yeah, they can't do it.

Or it might be Jamal Murray. I mean, he's not a distributor, but he is somebody that, if you ran the offense through Jokic, could be your point guard. Could be Moutier. Jamal Murray, up or down? Could be Moutier. Casey's kind of high on gotta see i gotta see more i'm not the biggest fan he's looked okay in preseason but i mean he looked so bad at times

last season kate's making the i just smelled a fart face kate what i was gonna say will barton a lot of you you guys haven't mentioned oh yeah yeah we should have yeah you're right you're right he's good but he's's good. He's better every tournament. All right, so you could play Milsap Chandler, Will Barton, Moudier, Jokic. There's a lot of question marks there. We're throwing a lot of names out here, which shows their depth. I agree with that. We haven't even mentioned Trey Lyles. We haven't even mentioned Darrell Arthur.

What about Hernan Gomez? We like Hernan Gomez. Yeah, I like Hernanan Gomez I agree with that but in terms of a talent standpoint but you're still asking a lot you're asking guys who are kind of question marks to step up a level 46 isn't a big ask that's all I also it makes me

nervous that they have too much talent because all that means to me is that four guys are going to be unhappy every game because I'd rather just have a good eight or nine and then two guys who are happy to play 10 minutes. Yeah, Will Barton is good. Maybe... No, no, no.

I'm sticking with the under. I'm saying I wonder if there's a way for them to package Chandler and Farid and other stuff and try to get one more big chess piece. But I'm still staying under. I don't think they're going to be good enough defensively. Minnesota. Here it is. 48 and a half.

That's huge. This team couldn't guard anyone last year. 17 game improvement. That's a historic level improvement. Oh, I should mention Denver is plus 550 to win the Northwest. Denver plus 250 to win the Northwest. Minnesota. I'm sorry. Minnesota plus 250 to win the Northwest. Denver, plus 250 to win the Northwest. Minnesota. I'm sorry, Minnesota, plus 250 to win the Northwest.

OKC, minus 150 to win the Northwest. Minnesota's over under 48 and a half. They added Jimmy Butler. They added Jeff Teague. They added Jamal Crawford, who was washed two years ago. They added Taj Gibson. They added Justin Patton. They lost Zach Levine, who was washed two years ago. They added Taj Gibson. They added Justin Patton. They lost Zach Levine, who was hurt anyway.

Ricky Rubio. Hill and Caspi. They're definitely, from a talent standpoint, better. 49 and 33 seems high. NFW. No fucking way. What are you talking about? Get out of here.

I gave Tibbs. We all got on our knees for Tibbs last season. The magical Tibbs. He's going to teach these kids how to play defense. They're kids. They need to learn and play games and get the system and everything. And so what they did made all the sense in the world because they got guys that Tibbs is comfortable with to come in and teach these kids this system. And so all this talent that Minnesota has is finally going to be pointed in a direction that fits Tibbs' vision. But get the fuck out of here.

They're not going to win 49 games this season. I would say if they went 47 and 35, that's a huge victory in a game. They could be most improved team in the league with just that amount of wins. Right. They could hit the under and still be the most improved. It's too soon to win 49 for the over. I have real concerns with Wiggins too. That he's a good

stats bad team guy. The defensive stuff on him last year was alarming. Every day there was a clip of him just letting somebody go by him. It's a fascinating question with him because he's one of those guys where, especially early on, he came in with a reputation of this guy's going to be a next level defender. Lockdown.

Lockdown. He was the opposite. And the interesting thing about it was it was hard to pick out with the eye test. And then you look at the advanced numbers and it was like, oh my God, this guy has a calamity. And then it became more obvious. So it'll be interesting to see what he turns his career into. Well, it also Butler will either push him into a good direction or a bad one. The bad direction would be he can't figure out how to be the third option.

He doesn't channel that into defense and athleticism and all the stuff that they would need from him. Like on paper, ideally, he's the perfect third guy. Sure. Right? Just run the floor, shoot some threes, and lock people down. That's all we need. Yeah, right. That's one thing he definitely should do.

Never pass. Teague is a strange guy to play with. If by strange you mean mediocre well he's kind of an acquired taste he has the ball a lot yeah he's a pretty average starting point guard he is warm he's the replacement

I don't see him like playing off the ball as Jimmy Butler decides what to do and then Jeff Teague is just kind of sadly standing over there and Wiggins there are a lot of chemistry issues to hammer out and then Jeff Teague's just kind of sadly standing over there and Wiggins. There are a lot of chemistry issues to hammer out. And then you look at their bench.

Like the Jamal Crawford thing. Are people watching basketball? This guy has not been a rotation guy for two years. And he gets hot. He'll make a four-point play at the end of a quarter and people are like, oh, Jamal Crawford, there he goes. He's like, can't guard anybody. Not a good shooter anymore. He doesn't make anyone better.

Yeah. He's still got some six man in the year votes this past year. It's ridiculous. Because people are dumb. It's like the people that voted Kobe

for all defense in like 2012. If you came to me and said in 2018, 19, do the Timberwolves win 48, 49 games? I'd say maybe.

Sure. This season, no. Right now, there's a Wolves fan listening to this like, you guys have not mentioned Carl Anthony Towns yet. It's very fair. He was unbelievable the last two months of the season. And the thing with Towns is like, if you look at his numbers from the

last couple months of his rookie season, they were the same as his numbers from the first 40 games of his second season. And then you look at his numbers from the last 40 games of his second year. He's like 28 points per game. He's awesome. 13 rebounds. Yeah, he's awesome.

Two blocks. And if he replicates that heading into this year, maybe. Maybe. Maybe they could push to that 48 and a half. Even then, now you still have issues of who gets the ball when. You're right. Like Jimmy Butler gets the ball when. Wiggins does what?

How does Wiggins slot into this? How do you get these guys the ball? And I think those are big questions. They could have ball movement issues this year, I think. And I say this as somebody who likes Jimmy Butler and has done two podcasts with him, and I thought he was a good guy. We haven't seen him in a good chemistry situation yet. I'm not saying it's his fault.

I just want to see it. Let's see if he can be the leader of a young team because he couldn't do it last year. Towns is awesome. Unbelievable. He's awesome. If you put this team in the East, I would say 48 and a half is conceivable. Is he the best young player in the league?

So you're saying if I could have anyone 24 and under to start my team right now, I think I would probably pick Towns. Me too. Over Giannis. Oh, no, I forgot. Yeah, Giannis first. How about over Anthony Davis? Well, Davis is 25 now, right?

He just turned 25. I'd go Giannis first, Townnis first. How about over Anthony Davis? Well, Davis is 25 though, right? Oh, you just turned 25? Yeah. I'd go Giannis first, Towns second. And I would go Jason Tatum third. Marko Foltz last. Let's take a break. Anthony Davis is 24. Anthony Davis is 24, all right. Even though with the injuries, I still take Towns over. Anthony Davis is 24 Anthony Davis is 24 alright even though

with the injuries I still take Towns over Anthony Davis is 24 I take Towns over I would have said 25 or 26 yeah wow

I'd go Davis Giannis Townsend but Towns Towns is bronze medalist in that conversation but why

who would you go House I love Towns I do too I think he's incredible. You'd go for Giannis, though? That's really hard for me. I don't know. I thought Giannis... I'm worried about Giannis' ability.

This is why we took the under on Milwaukee. I don't know if he's so new to basketball. Like, what does he know about winning basketball games? He took a team to the playoffs last year, though, did Towns do? He's 22. Towns was putting up garbage time numbers last year games he's 22 they put a nice array nice complimentary team around Giannis

and his talent is immeasurable I think he's a superior two way player I agree with that the difference between those two guys is Giannis can lock it down and can protect the rim like Giannis might be a center by the time we're done with him. And Giannis can play make too. Giannis is the true unicorn.

Yeah, I don't want to be in this position of comparing those two because I don't want to say bad things about Giannis. If Giannis ever gets a jumper, it's over. Two minutes ago, you were making a face. Well, because I think Towns is more polished and the Towns might be, if I'm building a team, I want that polished. well because I just I think Towns is more polished and the Towns might be you know if I'm building a team right

that I want I want that polished I think would you agree that though Giannis like the ceiling is man if this guy gets a jumper he dominates the league

I think the Giannis ceiling is there's no ceiling it's like an open stadium if I don't know what his well you can't put a ceiling

on him what did he get taken 14th 15th 15th I believe if you redid a ceiling on him. Would he get taken 14th, 15th? 15th, I believe. If you redid that draft, would he get taken negative fifth? It was absurd. I did that draft.

I've told this story before. We're watching those highlights of him. I don't understand. None of those GMs should feel bad. No, they shouldn't. He was playing like in a gym in the middle of nowhere. We were laughing. We were like, are those rims 10 feet? Like he just had no idea.

And he seemed like this crazy arm freak. But then he grew two inches after he got in the league. And the way he's handled where he came from to being in America and all the stuff that comes with being an NBA star, it's been, I would say the odds were like one in 100. It's a great story. He's had no issues at all, and all he does is work at his game and get better.

He's the total package on and off the court. Yeah. Well, we went under for the Bucs. But not because of the odds. And under on Minnesota. Let's take, I know, let's do Oklahoma City, then we'll take a break. Oklahoma City the over

on this list is 50 and a half we had it at like 52 we we bought it at 52 I know this list is wrong this list has it at 50 and a half

and you have to pay 200 to get that price which is stupid yeah so it's wrong so let's say let's make it 52 for the purposes of this podcast 52 over under and I'm still going over me too

without hesitation it's just there's no way this team's not eight wins better than we're last year that's only six wins better seven wins but they're 47 they won six wins better yeah yeah seven wins 40 yeah 47 47 jason what do you? I will also take the over Hold your Carmelo thought We'll go around first House is going over KOC seems nervous I had over at 50 and a half on the list

But I'm going to go under here I think 51 Maybe right on the button at 52 I think they could get off to a slow start And maybe they pick it up towards the end, but I think there could be chemistry issues with Melo and Westbrook early on with moving the ball. That could be problematic.

Two of the biggest problems of the week. What? You think they could have a slow moving the ball? I'm wearing my Captain Obvious hat right now. That seems so far-fetched. Slow start, but they're going to be really good towards the end of the season. I think I'm going to go the opposite way, even though I'm taking the over. I think they're going to start well, because I think Carmelo is going to be on his best behavior, especially early.

He understands the narrative around him. Like, he's going to be like, I'm hoodie mellow, I'm Olympic mellow, I'm out here trying to help these guys. The narrative of Nick's ruiner, Carmelo and Anthony? And then as we get down towards crunch time in the season, now all of a sudden as the water dries up in the well, now you start seeing guys be like, where's my shots? Where's my shots? Why am I not getting this ball?

So I think it's reversed. It's a very strange personality mix. It really is. Because let's be honest, Paul George isn't exactly like the all-time greatest teammate we've ever seen in our lives either. Like he threw CJ Myles under the bus in the playoffs last year. He drove the bus over him.

He was making faces. I watched a lot of Pacers games the last two years. He's making faces. Like he was playing hard, but it just seems like if things aren't going perfect for him, you can kind of see it. He's one of those guys. You kind of read his face.

Carmelo's definitely an up-and-down energy guy. And PG is also the guy who's like, if it's not going well, he's just, well, I'm out. I'm out. Yeah, I'll just stand here and shoot threes. You tell me when I get the ball Russell and then Russell who maybe he developed some bad habits last year shooting 100 times a game the worst with the highest usage rate of all time

everybody's like no no shut it off he proved his point he won the MVP by the way I'm going over I'm laying out the case for the under can Russell Westbrook after what he experienced last year, where basically Russell Westbrook was in it. Let's say he's like a married guy who, like, for one year just gets to have sex with whoever he wants.

For one year. It's like, Russell Westbrook, we're going to let you do whatever the hell you want to do. Right. Oh, you want to buy that car? Buy it. You want to have sex with that girl? Do that.

You want to have that steak? Go have it. You want to buy another house? Go have it. You do whatever you want. We want you to win the MVP. Do it. Go ahead.

And now this year, it's like, hey, Russell, you got to get Carmela more. How do you shut that off? I think a underrated story in the NBA from last year is Stephen Adams had one of the great opportunities in history when Russ was approaching the triple-double average. He should have gone to Presti and Russ and say, that's it, I'm going to start grabbing these rebounds

unless you give me $4 million in a brown paper bag. In a brown paper bag today. I want want four million in cash today or i start grabbing these rebounds and that's it i really feel like that was a missed opportunity for this guy i mean he's he's he's a man i think he needs like 10 he needs 10 an hour he's happy yeah he doesn't care about like a hundred million dollar no. I'm like a $100 million contract. No, I want more. I want more. You want this triple-double record? You want me to give up my stats for this triple-double record? I want some cash.

I really like four of their five, like together. If they can figure out the whole, hey, Carmelo, you're a hoodie Olympic mellow. Hey, Paul George, you are the number two guy. Hey, Russ, you got to get those dudes involved. They're Steven Adams. All he's going to do is rebound and set picks for you and occasionally do screen and rolls, and that's it. Super important play for them.

But Roberson, Roberson, Roberson, Roberson. I just don't like him as the fifth guy. What if it's Pat-Pat, though? He's hurt. I know, but— He'll be back eventually. Yeah, I don't know. When you watch the Wizards play Patrick Patterson,

I like Patrick Patterson. No, he's a meaningful. You want him as a crunch time? He's a professional. You want him in Golden State in game seven with five minutes to go? That's your fifth? You want him more than Roberson. Yeah, right.

Roberson's four on five on the offensive end. And also, it's in his head. They can't do that again. That's my point. You're right. They can't do that again. So my question is, they gave Roberson $10 million a year, but they can trade him in December.

They gave Patterson like $6 million a year. They can trade him in December. They have a bunch of other contracts they can kind of patch together. Will they be able to get the fifth guy? Now, I'm not even talking for the overrunner. I'm just talking about for title possibilities. They cannot win a title with Roberson

as their fifth guy. He was like a private pile in the playoffs. He shot 15% from free throws. The Rockets were just leaving him 10 feet open.

He almost seemed like he was on the bench. He seemed like a bench player wanted on the court because there's nobody within eight feet of him. And I just don't see how you run him back. But look, they don't need to have him out there at the end of games, though. I mean, they can pull him off the court and play small if Patterson's healthy. You can even put Patterson in the center.

If he can be okay, now you have him and Paul George, and it's like, we'll guard everybody. You guys just do your thing. We got it. And Adams is good, too. I think their ceiling makes them I have to go over. I could see them going like 55 and 27, something like that. And also, the other thing with Russ, and we saw this last year,

Russ is going balls out every night. Yes. This is the one team where you don't have to worry about, like, oh, that guy took 10 games off. He can't take games off. Well, and that's the cure to Paul George. He's going to drag

Paul George along. Right. This is either the best or the worst thing that ever could happen to Paul George. That's right. I would say 60% best,

40% he's going to be miserable. 60% he loves it. Russell has pushed him to another level. He's playing balls to the wall, and Carmelo's over there. Wouldn't it be amazing, though, after signing the biggest contract in league history if Russell Westbrook came in looking like Antoine Walker, just like he gained 65 pounds?

He's just like, ah. He loves wearing fancy clothes too much. He didn't get that PRP injection in his knee. Right. Yeah. Before the season. So we're all going over except for KFC. Yep.

Okay. San Antonio, 54 and a half. Huh. 12 to 1 to win the title. OKC was 12 to win the title as well. Minnesota was 28 to win the title. I forgot to mention that. San Antonio, minus 110 to win the Southwest.

So were the Houston Rockets. Both of them, minus 110 to win that division. Man. Man. Yeah. San Antonio lost my brother Jonathan Simmons and Dwayne Dedman. They gained a half a season of Rudy Gay whenever he comes back from his Achilles. I don't know when he comes back. Probably December, January.

Mid-season, I think. Yeah. Hey, what could go wrong with an aging NBA player who blew out his Achilles? Derek Waite and LeVernier from OKC last year. That team is not better. Gasol is a year

older. The Aldridge, everybody thought they were going to trade him. They tried, couldn't trade him. Parker's a year older. Basically, everybody on this team, on an aging team other than Kawhi is a year older and that 54 and a half I hate to say it seems too high I'm going under

Rudy Gay has actually been cleared actually been cleared so Parker not back in time for the season Rudy Gay is supposedly back. He was on the Wes Matthews accelerated treatment cycle. He's scrimmaging last month. He's back, but if there was an Olympics, he wouldn't be able to play in it.

Pop said, Tony Parker a month away at least. I can't in good conscience touch this team unless i know that kawaii is arriving in superhuman condition and they already they told us last week that kawaii is on an indefinite out status and that he you know the beginning of the season's in jeopardy or are they already sacrificing games at the beginning of the season i don't think we're at that point yet. I think it's just preseason. I don't like any aspect of that. It is absolutely the dumbest thing in the world to take a San Antonio Spurs under.

I know. We make fun of each other every year when we talk about doing it and now we're about doing it. We're doing it. I'm doing it. Listen, this is the year where the Patriots are going to give up 500 points and go 10 and 6. Like if there's ever a year.

Also, I wonder Popovich getting older, all the stuff going on in the world. He's won five rings. You think he's checked out a little bit? I don't think he's checked out. I think he's probably, he's like my mom. He's at the bottle of wine every night kind of stage of his life. Lamar's kind of reflecting on life. Yeah.

Just kind of like, I've done it all. I'm going to take the soft over. I'll go 55. The flaccid over. Yeah, I don't feel, I'm not confident about it. The last time the Spurs...

You want us to fluff you a little bit more? Yeah, sure, why not? Get somebody out here. The Spurs won 50 games in 2009-10. Yeah. And that was, you know, the lowest of the last, what, 10 years or so.

So I just can't, I bet against them all the time, and then it always comes back to haunt me. I think that they figure out a way to stay up there around 55 wins. KSC? Very, very slide over, too. I think this is one of those years where they're in the mid-50s or so, like they were in um 2014 50 and they won 55 2011 12 they won 50 it's one of those years where you're a little bit

worried um about their aging roster but i think they'll get the site over because they always get at least 50 and i think they have talent to bump it over do any of us think they could win 60 games uh not with this roster only Only if Kawhi elevates his game again, but that's a question. And Tony Parker turns the clock back for a significant amount of the season. And LaMarcus Aldridge figures that out. I can't overstate how much I disliked

watching LaMarcus Aldridge in the playoffs last year, and I can't unsee it. Imagine being Shea Serrano. Right, poor Shea. So, I think it's more likely they go down than up from that number. Even if they go over, it's going to be by a hair. It's going to be like 55, 56,

57, but I could see them winning 48 games. I could see the downside to that team just looks much better. Wow, end of an era. I can't believe House and I both go under on the Spurs and don't feel like we want to... If Kawhi misses any meaningful

time at all, there are 47 or 48 wins. Out of all the contenders, they are by far the most star dependent on their best guy, I would say. Which is ironic. There's a team in the past that wasn't at all. This is like if Kawhi goes out, I don't understand how they would survive for three weeks.

It really is like a Kobe-ish, a pre-Pow Lakers post-Shack, a Kobe-ish situation with them. Chilling, chilling remark. Let's take a break. Chilling remark. We're going to recap our bets in a second. From a gambling standpoint, we're going to remember the 2010s

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Join now. MyBookie will match your deposit with up to a 100% bonus. Visit mybookie.ag. Use the promo code BILLSIMMONS to activate the offer. You play, you win, you get paid. All right, guys. Three teams left. The Rockets, 55 and a half.

There's been some action. Over minus 130. 16 to 1 to win the title. Minus 110 to win the Southwest. One thing I'm learning is I kind of like the Rockets to win the Southwest over the Spurs. They added Chris Paul. They did a sneaky P.J. Tucker signing.

Yeah. They added Tariq Black, who I've liked for three years and was always hoping the Celtics would sign. KFC, am I alone on Tariq Black? He's all right. Okay. I don't know why I like him. Something about him.

They lost Beverly Decker, Lou Williams, and Harrell. Crunch time. Looking at Capella, Ariza, James Harden, Chris Paul, and probably Eric Gordon. Maybe P.J. Tucker. Maybe Ryan Anderson. They also have Nene. Pretty deep team. Looks like a contender.

The question is, can Chris Paul and James Harden ultimately play together and be two people that can decide what to do in the last five minutes of a very close, intense basketball game that we're probably not going to have to worry about this question until May? I'm going to take the soft under on this. I just think. Another flaccid under. Yeah.

I just think, you know, listen, on paper, the talent is undeniable. Chris Paul, as we've said, it's probably one of the, he's one of the best point guards ever. And one of the best point like players under six, four in history. That said, I think there's a lot of chemistry issues to work out here. Like how, who gets the ball when? How do they share it? Not only between those two in the backcourt, but between Mike D'Antoni and Chris Paul.

Like how does, you know, the D'Antoni system is more of a, it's a ball movement system. Steve Nash did do a lot of probing in those Suns days. I'm not sure that's... Probing? Good use of probing. A little probing. Are you aware of that, House? When he goes underneath the rim, right, circles back. And I'm not sure that that's not necessarily Chris Paul style.

I'm not sure that that works with the personnel they have. I just think there's some questions. I think they win 55 games. I don't think they take a huge step back, but I think that there's going to be things to work out. Pass. I like them for over the 55 and a half. I think they're like a 57, 58, 59 win team.

And the reason I don't think that this coexistence issue is going to be that big a deal because Chris Paul has shown us over the course of his career that he has the capacity to defer and you know over over what he kind of fell into uh in the latter part of his time with the Clippers and maybe this is why they could never get over the hump he would he would kind of defer three quarters of a game and then be assertive in the fourth quarter that's the the mode that I feel like he kind of fell into. So I think he and Harden have had long heart-to-hearts,

a lot of hand-holding walks down on the beach here in Manhattan Beach here in L.A. I don't think that's where the heart-to-hearts were. I'm just creating an image. That's all. I think it was in a room that had the word champagne in it. Yeah, I understand. I already, I wanted to keep it out of the zipper zone for a moment. They were heart to hearts with James Harden then asking

can I borrow $200? James Harden didn't have to borrow any money. Yeah, that's true. Alright, so you're going over. I am. KOC? Way over. I think they'll win $60. Woo! I think they're going to be terrific. I think it's i think mike d'antoni kind of put it best uh the other day during media day you're gonna have 48 minutes

of hall of fame point guard play simple as that i mean you you can have harden or paul on the floor at all times and then when you have both of them on the floor harden can kind of be that guy who plays a little bit more off ball you look at the way he played in in oklahoma city next to westbrook and durant more slashing playing off other guys hitting spot up threes cutting and maybe he puts a little bit more effort into the defensive end of the floor here's an interesting question though if you have harden and chris paul on the floor at the same time what if it's actually better if chris paul is the spot up guy and hardens the dude that's that's playmaking like what happens then it's actually better if Chris Paul is the spot-up guy and Harden's the dude that's playmaking? What happens then?

It's possible. Paul's a better spot-up shooter than Harden statistically, but I think Harden is great enough that Paul is the better playmaking guy more so than he is the better spot-up guy than Harden. I don't know if that makes any sense. I just think they have way better versatility than last year too. You mentioned P.J. Tucker. Trevor Reeves is a solid defender.

They had Luke Mambamute. Solid defender. Clint Capella is going to have a career year with Chris Paul throwing lobs to him and Harden as well. They have a lot of talent on that team. My two red flags. Defense. Chris Paul and James Harden is your backcourt in crunch team. My two red flags. Defense. Chris Paul and James Harden is your backcourt

in crunch time. And I'm going against Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. I'm not even talking about the overrun. I'm just talking about just the ceiling of this team. I don't think Chris Paul is an elite defender anymore. I know

he was. I don't think he can do it for 48 minutes a game anymore. And I definitely don't think he can do it seven times in a playoff series because he couldn't do it. He couldn't play hard for six games in the Utah series. He's old. This is year 13 for him. The history of point guards is like you hit this point and you start slipping at least defensively.

So James Harden doesn't play defense. Eric Gordon's not a good defensive player. Ryan Anderson's a zero. That's one fear I have. And then the other is what you guys talked about, which is the Harden-Paul, is that going to be weird? I think they're going to,

like what you talked about, about the buying in early and maybe it becomes a problem later. They are pretty loaded. Their bench is going to win games. Eric Gordon's really good. There's going to be two 60-win teams in the league, right? There always is.

The other thing is it's just like D'Antoni said. You can have 48 minutes of Hall of Fame point guard play. Managing Chris Paul's minutes is going to be super important. You saw the way the Clippers started last season when they were an elite defensive team, and Chris Paul was like, you're like, holy shit, that's right, it's point guard Chris Paul who can lock dudes down and then fade over the course of the season.

Mike D'Antoni's a guy who likes to play eight players for large minutes. Does he alter his rotation some? Does he make it deeper? It's an open question. They'll have to do that. James Harden was exhausted at the end of that season. He's literally never done it, though. That's the thing about D'Antoni.

Now he has two guys who can, though. Maybe that's the issue. He's leaned on one guy, but now he has two. I thought this was actually the single hardest over under for me yeah because i had them right around the somewhere between like 55 and 58 i think it's more likely they become the second win second 60 win team then they go 52 and 30 you know but i don't love the chris paul james harden combo i'm gonna have to talk myself into it i like your 48 minutes of 30. I don't love the Chris Paul, James Harden combo. I'm going to have to talk myself into it. I like your 48 minutes of great point guard.

That makes sense to me. I don't know. I went to a lot of Chris Paul games. That dude likes to have the ball. James Harden likes to have the ball all the time. Everybody kind of stands there. They had a thing going last year with that team. It was like, this is James Harden's team.

You guys stand over there. He's going last year with that team. It was like, this is James Harden's team. You guys stand over there. He's going to find you open shots. Now is Chris Paul just going to be like, all right, I'll stand over here. Maybe he will. Maybe he'll embrace it because he's got to do something and he hits second stage. I'm going to go slight over. I wouldn't bet on it.

Golden State, 67 and a half over. I'm sorry, for the title, they are minus 160. For for the title they are minus 160 for the West they are minus 275 which is nuts, 3-1 odds that's like vintage Miami Heat numbers they added Nick Young, Jordan Bell Caspi come here dumb Willie

they lost Dan Clark and James McAdoo I don't see any way unless somebody gets hurt whoa, okay dumb Willie unless somebody gets hurt I don't see how way, unless somebody gets hurt. Whoa. Okay, dumb Willie. Unless somebody gets hurt, I don't see how they don't win 70 games. If the over was 70, I would still consider taking the over. 67 and a half, I'm just grabbing it.

Thank you. What do you think, Jason? Yeah, I think they go over too. I think the only real red flag you have is like, okay, you've talked about this tons of times, like when a team is really good and has a good culture, you can always add that one crazy guy, so you add JaVale. Now they have Nick Young and JaVale. Right.

Will they hang out together? Will they hang out together? What does that do? I don't think their culture is still too strong to really have it. I thought you were going to say Durant was the crazy guy. I got worried for a second. To bring the team down? I mean, he did.

The Twitter thing was, you know. That was troubling. It was truly troubling and very weird. But, yeah, I got worried for a second. To bring the team down? I mean, he did. The Twitter thing was, you know. That was troubling. Yeah, it was a little troubling. It was truly troubling and very weird. But yeah, I take the over, too. It's an over. I mean, you know. You're not rooting for an injury.

So that's basically what the under is. The under is I'm rooting for somebody to get hurt. The thing to remember with this was when they never really figured out what they were. The Durant thing, it took them a couple months to really integrate it. By the time the playoffs rolled around, that team knew exactly what they were. When they figured out the Curry-Durant thing, then in the finals, Kerr moves it over closer to the sideline when they're doing the pick and roll.

I think they're going to be better. I really do. I think that second year of Durant, they have a whole other level to go to. What do you think? Even then in the playoffs, they still don't have a perfect game in the finals. No, they have a perfect offensive game. Yeah, but not perfect overall. I think they'll be better.

I mean, they're an easy over. They're probably one of my three locks. Easy. They're going to be better. Yeah, I think somebody, either Curry or Durant, would have to get injured for me to worry about that lock. All right, last but not least, America was waiting for it.

The Lakers, formerly of Minneapolis, now of Los Angeles. I don't think America was waiting for it. Maybe LA. Lonzo Ball, Caldwell Pope, Brooke Lopez, Fokaro Kuzma, Andrew Bogut. Always a threat to get into some sort of Twitter scandal. Him and L.A. Oh, those guys are added. They lost D'Angelo Russell, Mozgov, Nick Young, and Black.

Crunch Time. Brooke Lopez. Brandon Ingram. Julius Randle. Caldwell Pope. Lonzo. Hey, maybe Kuzma's out there. Who knows?

Larry Nance Jr. might be out there one day. I like this team. I hate my own guts that I like a Lakers team and can't wait to watch this team. I think 33 and a half is too low. I think they're going to be a good home team. I think that crowd is going to, I think they go at least 20 and 22 at home. Maybe 22 and 20. I think they're going to be really tough at home.

I think they retire Kyle Kuzma's jersey by the end of the season. I think that goes into the records really tough at home. I think they retire Kyle Kuzma's jersey by the end of the season. Oh, you didn't mean in December. I didn't mean in December. I hate that I'm going to make this lovability argument for both the Knicks and the Lakers. Like, that is so dumb. Yeah. But I subscribe to what you are offering up here. I agree with it.

The main thing to me, the big factor, I think this roster is trash. And I think Lonzo Ball is going to come out. Trash? I hate with it. The main thing to me, the big factor, I think this roster is trash, and I think Lonzo Ball is going to come out. I hate this roster. Why? I like Luke Walton, and I think he's the difference. I do. I think they're going to win 34 games because of Luke Walton. Wow.

Their pick is top one protected. Yeah. Two through five, they lose it. Six and on, they keep it. In a weird way, they actually have an incentive to not tank and to try to win 36, 37, 38 games and maybe make a playoff run. Philly, I think, keeps that pick. That's what I mean, Philly. There's no incentive to tank at all for that.

No incentive to tank. I'm a very, very slight over. I've kind of flip-flopped with this as we've been talking. You flip-flopped? Yeah, I had a slight under for them, but I'm going to go slight over just because I think the upside of the younger guys, like Kuzma is playing extremely well. We're seeing it now in preseason after

he did it during Summer League. I think Lonzo Ball, he's probably not going to be spectacular right away as people think, but he can still pass it on. He makes guys better on the floor. He's an awesome guy to come off the bench for 20 minutes in your second unit. I think Luke Wallen is a top

four perfect coach he could have had. At least he'll unleash him and tell him, just run, run, run, run, run, go, go, go. Defensively, not great. Defensively, they're going to be disaster. Yeah. I also take the flaccid over. Ingram has been more aggressive in the preseason.

Randall is good. Lonzo, the funny thing about Lonzo is his passing is truly infectious, and I love the fact that he gets credit for the Lakers moving the ball when he's on the bench now. You see the ball moving around and that's the effect of Lonzo. He's on selfishness.

He's not even playing. That kind of play really is infectious. Kuzma, man. Kuzma! I love this guy. They added two guys to this team that nobody's mentioning because it's all Lonzo, Kuzma, Lonzo, Lonzo, Lonzo. But Brooke Lopez is still a good basketball player who won games for Brooklyn by himself last year. Top 50 basketball players.

And he can shoot threes now. Yeah. He can shoot threes. And Caldwell Pope. Top 50. I don't love Caldwell Pope, but he's a very good overpaid rotation guy. For what he is, you know what he is. Nice little favorite of Rich Paul and company.

Yeah, totally. And we predicted it on the podcast. We said this is how it's going to go because they're trying to get LeBron next year. But I just think nobody's seen Brook Lopez play for three years because he's been in purgatory. And people are like, wow, Brook Lopez. You throw him the ball and he puts it in. And he posts up people.

Brook Lopez is a problem. I'm going over. All right. Let's recap. Sacramento, 27 and a half. Everybody's over. Phoenix, 29. Everybody's under.

Lakers, 33 and a half. Everybody over. Dallas, 35 and a half. Everybody's over. Phoenix, 29. Everybody's under. Lakers, 33 and a half. Everybody over. Dallas, 35 and a half. Everybody under. So we had four agreements to start. Memphis, 37 and a half. Everybody went under except for KOC. Wow.

Wearing a Woj Bomb t-shirt. That was his biggest Woj Bomb in the podcast. New Orleans, 39 and a half. Emphatic unders from all of us. Utah, 41. Emphatic overs from all of us. Portland, 42 and a half. Everyone went under except for Jason.

LA Clippers, 43 and a half. Joe House, the only one who went under denver most polarizing one 45 and a half i went under jason went under koc and house went over minnesota under for everybody oklahoma city 52 wins under for koc over for everybody else. San Antonio, 54.5. Under for Bill and House. Over for Jason and Kevin. Houston, 55.5. Under Jason. Over everybody else. Everyone went over for Golden State. What are your locks?

Jason, go first. New Orleans under. Minnesota under and Golden State over. Those are my locks. Minnesota under, Golden State over. Those are my locks. Minnesota under, Golden State over. Yeah. House? Sacramento over is a lock because I just am going to have so much fun rooting for Sacramento.

I love it. I'm so sad that you did that. De'Aaron Fox, Rookie of the Year. I'm thrilled by it. I can't wait to watch. Oh, the retirement home team with the apprentices and the old people. Yeah. I like it quite a bit. I'm taking

as a lock the under for the Memphis Grizzlies because I believe that they need to break the whole thing down. There is a trade or two coming for Memphis and I am taking as my third over the Golden State Warriors, the best team in the NBA.

Two warrior locks. KFC? First over is Houston, over 55 and a half. He loves that. I think they win 60. Okay. Second one, Utah, over 41. I think they're going to be very good. Maybe a 43, 44 win team.

Yeah. And my third, I'm going to avoid Golden State, even though that's kind of a lock, too. Clippers, over 43 and a half. I'm taking the upside pick with the Dills. Oh, KFC, you're going so well. I like that. I have over for Utah a half. I'm taking the upside pick. Oh, KFC, you're going so well. I like that. I have over for Utah, 41.

I have over for Golden State, 67 and a half. He's quiet. He's pondering. He can't find a third. See the wheels turning. Yeah. It's like Danny Ainge wondering if he should flip the pick. I don't really have a third.

Oh, I'll go under on Minnesota. Yeah. You weren't very excited about it. Because there was really two that I liked. You know what? I'm switching that. I'm going to go over for OKC. I'm doing three overs.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah. It's always more fun to root for an over. Yeah, well, we shorted a couple teams before. Unless you want to hate root against a team.

And I'm not hate rooting. I'm not hate rooting against Memphis. I just think that they need to break the whole thing down. So I got Utah, OKC, and Golden State for the overs.

If you wanted to hear me and House and Jason do the East, go to the Ringer. NBA show. Thanks to Gillette. A Gillette razor blade edge, thinner than a single brain cell.

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Shaq House and House of Carbs with Joe House and the Ringer NBA show every Tuesday, you and Verno, maybe a couple more times this year on the Ringer NBA show. And don't forget to listen to our Eastern stuff as well.

Thank you, everybody. This was fun. I'm kind of wiped out. It was great great I'm hungry I love the NBA where's TOD's I want to go have a cheeseburger it's too late

he already had his at like 9 thanks for listening everybody I don't have feelings within On the wayside I'm a bruised soul I never was