The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Over/Unders, Part 2: The East With Zach Lowe and Joe House

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Zach Lowe and Joe House for Part 2 of the annual Over/Unders pod as they run through the win totals for every team in the Eastern Conference! Intro (00:00) Cavaliers (02:00) Pistons (09:28) Bucks (14:53) Pacers (23:35) Bulls (31:28) Knicks (37:53) Sixers (43:56) Celtics (49:52) Raptors (57:22) Nets (01:02:33) Magic (01:08:50) Hawks (01:14:04) Heat (01:20:10) Hornets (01:25:05) Wizards (01:30:42) Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Zach Lowe and Joe House Producers: Chris Wohlers, Ronak Nair, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chia Hao Tat Post your job today at linkedin.com/simmonsbill. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to by Fandall Sportsbook. We're also brought to by The Ringer podcast Network where you can find Fairway Rowland with Joe House. Yeah. You can find the Zach Lowe podcast. Whoa. Yeah. That's on The Ringer, too.

It is. And he's here right now. We did part one, NBA over unders. We did The West, which, you know, is a more traditional old school, a lot of good arguments. Now we're about 10 to the East, which is just a freaking abyss. And I can't wait, but we're going to take a break. We're bringing our friends from Pearl Jam, and then the East.

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Visit RG-Helf.com. Call 88879-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Well, we have many traditions here with the Over Under's pod. One of which is we usually do the East second because House's division with the Washington Wizards is usually the last division. They're usually the last pick. It's like a little cherry in the Sunday House. It's very nice. We get to end with Washington.

I always leave feeling good. No matter what the pick is, I leave. feeling good about it. We're going to start with the Central where the Cleveland Cavaliers are at an over under of 56 and a half. They won 64 games last year. They lost Ty Jerome.

They lost Isaac O'Coro. They gained Lonzo Ball and Larry Nance and Thomas Bryant. And they are our first title-related second apron test case, Zach Lowe. It's a true contender with zero outs. This is

their roster. They can't really make trades, they can't improve it, they can't even get buyout guys. This is who they are. Even if Charlotte's like, hey, we'd love to give you lamello ball and three first round picks for Daris Garland, the Cavs would have to say, we can't. We are trapped under a giant second apron. Is this a good thing or a bad thing when a contender has a disappointing playoff loss and then can't make any moves and actually has to run it back? I don't think it's either good or bad. For this team, I think it's fine. They're all young.

They all fit well together. There's a proof of concept that everyone got hurt or Darius Garland and other people got hurt in the playoffs. Last year, Mowgli was a little banged up when they lost Indy. And I think it's good. I think it's fine for this team. You know, course sticking together is good. I'm okay with it.

Okay. How about you, House? Yeah, I totally agree. This is a team that showed us it still has room to grow. And, you know, the big what-if is what if Garland was healthy? Right. If Moby plays game one, would have Garland was healthy.

Hunter was banged up. Yeah. Because I was thinking we did Phoenix for the West in part one. And we were talking about how badly that went to shit over the span of three years, right? And it all starts because Luca beats them in that playoff series. And it just sends them on tilt. And then Ishbia comes in.

Now all of a sudden, the KD trade happens, and they just start blowing things up. I think in the old NBA, I think I wonder if Cleveland would have done a let's blow. load up something. You know what I mean? Like, would Garland have been dangled?

Would they have said, ah, maybe we can get away with Evan Mobley and maybe shop Jared Allen for two guys? But in this new NBA, this is where they're going to be. What would an Evan Mobley MVP season look like for you, Zach? How many points of the average last year?

He was 21. He was like 19 and 9, something like that. So 24. It has to be a big jump in scoring. Three-point shooting. to get better, although he was 37% last year, low volume, and just a little bit more, oh, he really feels

not, he really feels more like a 1A than a third option behind Garland and Mitchell in terms of creating, initiating possessions. I had the minutes per game has to go up because they had low minutes for everybody last year, so maybe like 34, 35 minutes a game. 24 and 12, realistic?

12 is tough. 12 stuff from 9.5 to 3rd. 12 with the center that eats a lot of rebounds. That's tough. Top three defensive player of the year, rankings, somewhere in there. He's there. Check it. 50, 40, 80 percentages.

It's 24. I think that Cavs would have to have like 65 wins. I don't think it's going to happen. House, what do you got? In terms of what I think about this team? Yeah. I think they're capable of running it back. They just set such a high bar last year.

And it really was, I want to, how much of it was attributable to just that the arrival of Kenny Atkinson and everything to the guys on the floor starting to make sense. You could see how the combination of Atkinson plus those guys are like, yes, okay, this is

and I'm not, this isn't shade at J.B. Bickerstaff. He got the most out of the crew with what he brought to the table. Atkinson, different guy, different kind of approach. And I think it, he elevated Mobley. The guy who gets credit for elevating Mobley is Atkinson, in my humble opinion.

and there is still that room to grow this is a huge drop-off in wind total that I don't really grasp, especially in view of what we've all observed in the east. Right.

So... The attrition. No Tatum. No Hal Burton. And I'm skeptical about some of the teams that we say, oh, there's big leaps coming and wins for a couple of teams that we'll get to. So I don't think I'm going to go, you know,

am I supposed to say my pick? Yeah, go. Yeah, yeah, it's an over for me. Because 57 wins is perfectly reasonable for this team. I am a little surprised to be going under. It's a high number, 56 and a half. I realized they won 64 last year. They were 20 and 9 in close games in the last three minutes,

score within three points. I don't know if they could duplicate that. I'm just a little nervous that Garland's already hurt to start the season. Struis has already hurt to start the season. that combined with maybe someone else gets hurt along the way, slash we're not going to go pedal to the medal all the way like we did last year when we're like good vibes with the first team together. Let's see what we can do.

I could just see a little ease off the gas and just have a nice normal 55, 54 win season. So again, I got to go under on some people on the high end. I'm going to go a little under on the cats. It's fine. It's weird to go under 56 and a half on a 64 win team. So I don't know. The injuries to start the season make me a little nervous. then you also have the Lonzo piece too.

Last year, the Thai Jerome certain in the industry of Lonzo, who, you know, if he's playing, it's great. I thought about the injury stuff too, and I think that's why the number is priced where it is. It's a good number. It's a good number. The first time I looked at it, I'm like, whoa, that's low. They won 64 last year.

There's a very good chance. This is a very stupid under by me, especially with the Mobley Leap potential as, like, the best possible reason to go over, even if you're concerned about the injuries. I'm going over for two reasons. One is the Mobley Leap possibility. which I think at age 24, it's right around now. I think they treated the regular, I know they won a bunch of games

in the regular season last year, but the minutes number was low. And I remember some of the dialogue when they got to the playoffs was like, these guys kind of weren't ready for the ramp up because they had been kind of babied throughout the regular season. And did we do something wrong?

Should we have handled the regular season a little more aggressively than we did versus like trying to get these guys pacing them, getting ready, and then all of a sudden they're taking haymakers in the playoffs like, ah, what's this? So I wonder if they're going to be more aggressive in the regular season. So that's swung it for me.

Maybe that's like two, three extra wins where they're just taking it a little more seriously that they have to keep laying the Smackdown. Also, the East is just worse. I mean, there's just multiple games now, especially like in the first half of the season where you're playing the Celtics without Tatum, right? There's two games that they should probably be favored. I think they're going to be favored in a lot of games. You know what? I'm changing my pick. I'm going over.

Wow. I'm changing it. My first midstream. He did it already. I did. I'm doing my first. Mine was open for conversation. I'm doing my first mid-stream change. I'm going over 50, six and a half. It's just too many. There's too many like wins to grab against 34 win mediocrities across the conference.

I'm going over on Cleveland. Sorry, Keff's fans. You coward. I just, I don't feel great about it for the beginning. I'm going over. The East is lousy. Over is the right move. Detroit is over 46 and a half. And they were 44 and 38 last year.

They added Karas Levert, Duncan Robinson, Jeff Green. Still in the league. Jvante Green? Yeah, definitely not Jeff Green. They wrote down Green. They added in a Green. Jvante Green? Jvante Green.

A.J. They added a green. Jero Green? No, AJ Green's on. Not Traymond Green. Rewa. A.C. Green. They lost.

Hardaway, they lost Schrooter, they lost Fentechio, and almost definitely lost Malik Beasley. There's still a chance maybe he comes back on a short contract because they have some rights with that. This is a team that's being thrown into a lot of taking a leap conversations. And I'll just start. I'll start us off normally to throw it, but I don't really see it with Detroit. I thought the 44 and 38 last year was a little deceiving because they played hard. every game and that you know there's some schedule stuff with it and kade was really good and it was

exciting to watch um but i think they're worse than they were last year i'm not a huge lebert guy robinson miami quit on 14 times over the last five years and i thought their vets like really matter to them with some of those games they look good in that next series i like kade like dern obviously ivy's coming back which would be like the other factor you would say the only only way I see it is if there's some giant Osir-Thompson leap that I think people really seem to want to happen.

But 47 felt rich to me, and I'm kind of leaning toward under. Where'd you stand, Zach? First of all, Asar Thompson is my pick for most improved player. So I'm excited about it. Well, that would help. This is fun. And he missed... He'd actually played more than I thought last year. He only missed 23

games, I think, but he didn't play a ton of minutes. Other than Ivy and him, they were very, very healthy last year. And other than Ivy, they had Schrooter for a lot of the year to sort of make up for that. Who was pretty important for them in those last two months. Like, yeah. And the playoffs. I'm

bullish on Detroit's like medium term future. I think last year was pretty real. I think the playoff toughness was pretty real. I ended up going under. Just because I can see this being one of those like, well, development's not always linear in terms of wind total. Sometimes you have like a little

step back or a little plateau along the way on your rise up to something. I think we're a year away from the rise. And ironing out the offensive kinks, I think, is going to be the story of the season. Duren, Asar, they don't have a lot of three-point shooting. They were a very high turnover team. I don't know how much of that they can really fix. So I can see another year just like last year.

So I'm going on during the trip. Yeah, somewhere in the mid-40s. And then bringing back Ivy, who I think is going to be extension eligible in a year. But it's now. He and Dern are extension eligible now. And it's Kade's team. You got to slat him in. What do you see, House?

The single biggest factor for me is the Beasley thing. He was unbelievable from three last year. And that was really important to them. He was one of the three best three-point shooters in the entire NBA, Malik Beasley. Yeah. And it was very quiet. And one of the worst gamblers. No, we don't know anything about that.

Nothing proven. Yes. There's just allegations out there. Nothing proven. It's just allegations. And I think that that's not. like, oh, we just acquired Duncan Robinson and we fixed it and some of that offensive stuff.

Karras Levert will fill in some of those blanks. I like this team to win 46 games. I like this team to win more than they won last year. So you go in half under. And it's an under. Right. Yeah, because 46 is not a bad record in the East and it's still an under.

So it's an under. You guys already said. It's like, tell me how Jaden Ivy's going to play. Like, tell me what his impact will be. I think he'll be fine. I think Jaden. Jay and Ivy will be fine. Yeah.

Shot catch and shoot through is really well. Yeah. I like Levert and Robinson better than you guys. I don't think they've lost it as much from the, the Beasley volume, Duncan Robinson won't be able to duplicate, but like he's a little bit of a better passer, like two-man game with Duren, I could see. Okay. Because Levert had Cleveland winning with him being like, I think we can do better.

That makes me nervous. I thought he was very ball-stoppy. Wild card here, as you have mentioned in the West part, is. do they make some sort of massive move in the middle of the season to win now and that could vault them over to the over but I'm not yeah I think actually just we'll see what they do

but I'm going I don't feel great but I'm going a little under so this is a tiny bit slight unders for all of us and the marketing trade could really fuck it up yeah sure if they just come in in February coming hot this is the sequel to all of us being over on the clippers I'm surprised all of us are under on the business

I they feel like Every year there's a team, and weirdly it was Orlando last year who had the year from hell. But there's always a team that people just vault to the next level, even though we haven't really seen it. And a lot of it is you kind of have to look at the circumstance from the previous season. I thought 44 and 38. To me, they were a 500 team that played hard and weren't fun to watch. We'll see. I also like this next team a lot more.

Just spoiler alert, the Milwaukee Bucks, over under 42 and a half. they are 20 to 1 to win the conference which is the eighth best odds in the East even though they have the best player in the conference in Yannis

minus 2 15 for the playoffs they were 48 and 34 last year they turned Lopez and the Miles Turner they turned Dame lowered into Cole Anthony and they turned Conaton

into coffee and Harris and they're deep and they're a sneaky great shooting team Zach great didn't take a lot, but they were the number one three-point shooting team by percentage. 38.5 last year, they had Prince Green Porter, Trent and Rollins, all over 40%. Turner was at 39.6. Porter's 37. Dane was actually lower than all those numbers.

And they have shooting and they have Janus. And this number is dumbfounding to me because I don't think they're trading Janus this season. And I just don't see a world where this isn't like a 46 win team. Well, look, I mean, what did they win last year? 48? Yeah. Yeah. And they added Thanasis and Alex of Tentacompo. And no brain.

And Russell Westbrookin. Talk about a freakoff. We, this is, we got to, all the freaks are in Milwaukee. It's a literal freakoff. It's a G-rated freakoff. It's the real freakoff right here in Milwaukeetown. Now, I think this team actually makes more sense than last year's team. I think that, like, the version of.

this team now i got hammered i want to like right hand up i got smashed at the outset of the playoffs because this version of milwaukee with all those shooters going up against indiana i thought that that freak was going to be able to assert his will and the and the shooters on milwaukee would keep them in and the pacers ran them the fuck off the floor and i lost a bunch of money but i still think that the core identity of this milwaukee team like turner coming in makes it makes it absolutely seamless. He's an improvement over Brooke Lopez. I mean, a huge improvement. I didn't think Brooke was good last year. He was fine. I think where I would disagree with you is that, like, who do I want dribbling the basketball other than Janus? And at least I had like another

guy to do that with Dame last year and a pick and roll combination that made sense. Kevin Porter Jr. is probably a little overtaxed in the role he's going to get some same with Ryan Rollins. But as long as you, I mean, like, and Janus typically plays about 65-ish games. So, The remaining 15 to 20 are going to be big for how much, if for how much they go over this number. I am also an over. Janus plus shooting just makes a lot of sense to me if he gets the 65.70 games. How about desperate, Janus?

This is my back is to the wall career-wise. And I've thought about this all summer and I'm tired of losing Janus. Kuzma can't be worse. I think Jericho Sims is like a decent backup center. I agree with this. And again, but the wild card is like, is there a world where this goes really South and Janus is not on the team after the trade deadline. I agree with you. I think that's

much more likely to be an off-season thing than an in-season thing. So I am taking without much thought, actually, this is an aggressive over for me. Yeah. I have it as a, I'm locking it down. So am I. And you know what? Triple lock. Triple lock. Triple lock. Triple lock. It's on my lock. It's on Tuesday. It's

on Tuesday. It's Tuesday. Oh my God. How about that? Triple lock on Doc Rivers' birthday. Everyone invested in this needs the bucks to win basketball games. They have no picks. Doc Rivers doesn't... I mean, he left Boston the moment

they were even hitting a rebuilding. Like, he doesn't want to rebuild with anybody. Janus, if he's going to be there, he's going to try to win every game possible. Miles Turner just signed this deal and is pissed at Indiana, and he's going to want to beat everybody, too. They also, a lot of the guys in this rotation

are still, like, chip on their shoulder. Nobody believes in me. Why don't people think I'm good guys? Like, Kevin Porter, what the fuck has he ever done? Like, he's still playing like he's proven himself. Trent over and over again gets discounting free agency. Portis, like he's born with that chip.

Cole Anthony, how about like I was a six man of the year candidate, like, yeah, I was giving away. I'm fine. And I think Cole Anthony could play crunch time for them. I like that Rollins. I thought he was pretty good for them last year. And Green is just like the one thing we've seen with shooters like that, they get better every year that they're in the league, right? They always go up. And I thought he was good last year.

I think this team's going to be good. He's, AJ Green's a good player, great chemistry with Yonis. Portis is just rock steady offense off the bench. We barely even mentioned him. We take him for granted because he just does what he does. I think I'm stunned that this line is so low. Like, I don't know what is that was happening. Yeah, I really think that's it.

I think people think he's just going to ask for a deal. I have them, I think they're either fourth or fifth in the east. I have them or Atlanta. Sure. Four or five. I think they're not a playing team. Mid-40s. That makes tons of same.

I agree. They're top six for me, for sure. We're all in agreement. So I did write down if we did get to vote for, you're going to get your vote back, would be my guest this year. I haven't asked for it, but you don't want the vote anymore, do you? I mean, I'm torn, but we'll see how it. You know, if you don't have the vote, you can gamble. That's why nobody offered it to me, but I'm,

if they added an LVP award for most damaging player, who played at least 25 minutes on a playoff team. Don't do this to Kyle Kuzma's minus 250. I can't even think who would be another, like, heavy, prohibitive favorite. And he's not, that's not him. He's not, I know he became a punchline last year. Like, he's not a bad NBA player. He's going to bounce back this year.

You're predicting the Kuzma bounce back? Will I hit the legacy button or not? No, no, not doing the legacy. 2020 champion. No, Kauzma legacy. Well, they need him because if he, He actually can be somewhat what he looked like three years ago before House's wizards contaminated him.

Well, he's not contaminated. He got bit by a spider. He was his own, you know, it was a self-sabotage alongside what's happening with the team. The problem with him, what happened is that he checked the fuck out two years ago. And you can't flip a switch in this league and show up with a team that's contending and get your head right for contending. So we're going to see this offseason with this group. Is his head in the right place?

I'm proud that we got through this whole segment without talking about Janus's future and where he's going to go. Well, we kind of did. We talked around it. You have a whole season to do that. Yeah. If there was one team,

if we're wrong and he gets traded during the season, you could only pick one team that that trade would happen to. What is the team? Do I have to go first? I'll go first. Go ahead. St. Antonio.

Okay. Okay. Because I don't think the Knicks, I just don't think it's an appetizing trade for the bucks. I'm not trading Yannis for what the Knicks are offering. Houston. Good. So you guys took one and two?

So what's that trade? Schengun. I don't know it. You just asked me to name a team. Stop there. I'm not going any further. Shengun. Mine is.

Reed Shepard. Oklahoma City. That's insane. Okay. Just saying they have the picks and the players. Presti's even more risk-averse than Zach. They have, what's the risk of taking on Yonis? just won the championship hands we all picked we all picked them to lock in over 62 and a half wins

what are they trained for yannis hurt that yonnes said it diminishes their win potential but if i feel comfortable predicting that he will not get traded it's okay soon that's fine reporting that right now this is a purely it's a ridiculous exercise so i gave an answer of a team i don't think san antonia is ridiculous it's not it's not i think that's the team that makes a ton of sense And by the way, Janice and Wembe on the same team is it absolutely like Zach putting the microphone down, walking away, doing like a couple laps and doing this a few times. That's all fine. But just acknowledge that that is an enormous fuck you to Milwaukee. There's nothing they're getting back from San Antonio other than we'll be good in five years, guys.

We'll be good again in five years. Fox can be in that trade. I was going to say. And we'll be good again in five years. Castle could be in that trade. We'll be good again in the East in three years. There's a bunch of picks that could go in that trade. That's what I mean. That's what I'm saying.

Kelly Olinnic could be in that trade. I love Kelly Olinic. Luke Cornynick can't. He's like hanging up. Don't mention Luke Cornynett. One of the best eaters in the NBA, Kelly Olin. Our next team is the Indiana Pacers. The over-under was at 38 and a half. It dropped to 37 and a half. And now it is at a comfortable

36 and a half. I think because oh, I remember Tyrese Halberin's out for the year. That probably hurts it. McConnell is out for the first month, it looks like. And they lost Miles Turner to the to the bucks. They were 1532 last year.

So this would be a 14 win drop if you think they're going under. They are plus 154 for the playoffs. They're plus 110 for the play in. They are 35 to 1 for the conference. they do have their own first round pick and I'm going to do my first are we sure dot dot dot of either over under pod

are we sure the Pacers aren't going to be pretty good so you're going over I mean I'm not sure this was one of my toughest ones because the line is very low 36 and a half and I will say this for the Pacers and this is relevant on the flip side to some other teams are going to talk about.

Yeah, they lost Halliburton. Their whole identity is wrapped up in how he plays. And particularly how he plays with the stretch center, who they also lost and are replacing with a mishmash of guys who are not quite that player. All that said, this is a bunch of serious fucking dudes who care about the right things. You will never hear anything on this, and a serious coach. You will never hear anything on this team about this guy's hogging the ball. There's a little math.

Like, does he fit in the identity? But, like, this guy's shirking his responsibility on defense. This guy's not executing the scheme. This guy's being selfish. Like, there's just none of that on the team. It's a team of serious adult basketball players. And that gets you pretty far in the East. So that's my answer to, like, I'm not sure that they're not going to be pretty good

or whatever the double negative I just said was. That said, I am going under on 36 and a half. I just think they lost. Wow, what a zag. I think they lost so much of their identity. Zach, Zag. I love it. I think they lost so much of their identity, so much their style of play.

Their full court press is not going to take everyone off guard like it did last year. McConnell's already injured. Their margin for like any more injuries is pretty slim. Can Nemhart really be like a co-number one option and guard the best guy on the other team? Like how long can he sustain that? And if we're five games under 500, we do, thanks to the Pelicans, by the way, own our pick and we don't own it every year going forward. There are

some years they don't own it because of the Pascal Trid. Is there some, you know, reverse incentive? So I'm going under. Sorry Pacers. This was one of the controversial over-underers just in general house. What do you have? I have them over because 37

is such a low bar in the east and Zach made a compelling case, the case for why this team is not showing up to roll over. They get derailed with any more injuries. They cannot have any more injuries. But I have Benedict Matherin in my most improved. Like, I'm looking hot and heavy at those odds. He gets, he gets the touches. I really like it. The touches are the thing that translate into him getting his head right.

Because, Zach, you kind of alluded to a little bit, like, what is this guy? Is he want to, you know, where is exactly he thinks he should get the ball more than he does? Well, that's like not a concern this year. 14 to 1 on Fando second best outs. Wow,

really? Yeah. Who's number one? Man Thompson plus 850 and your guy his brother is 20 to 1.

I'll book all Nicoliovich 25 to 1 bets if you guys want to make those with me directly. Wow.

You know who else is a serious basketball player? Pascal Seagum. There we go. Doesn't play selfishly, plays hard all the time.

Serious dude. A bunch of serious dude. They're in Neesmith, Neesmith Island. That was an island. Serious dude. Boy, did we clean up on Neesmith Island. I'm going over. I think this team just has a bunch of professional dudes who really got a taste of it for a long,

prolonged stretch of time last year and really understood this is the level it needs to be at. This feels great to be here. I don't want to lose this. I was watching the preseason San Antonio, Indiana, night. Just Topin. Topin's going to play more minutes this year.

Topin's like ready for it. Topin's good. You think Topin's like, oh no, we lost Miles Turner. He's like, fuck that. More minutes for me. Seaccombe, Neesmith,

Matherin. You think he's like super upset that he's going to be getting all the Tyrese Halliburton touches for six months. Contract here, Mathern. Could be.

Love them hard. I'm excited to see what he can do with more stuff. I've always like Jarris Walker. I've been kind of mentioning that for the last two years I really want to see

what happens with him and I guess the thing for me is can they can they kind of mismatch Phil the Turner stuff

with Toppin with Isaiah Jackson with Huff can they just kind of piece together a facsimile of his numbers and not

a facsimile facsimile facsimile fact simile yeah I'm sorry was that ignominious

well It's where a fax machine comes from, fix simile. I think they can patch together as numbers on offense. Defense probably won't be the same, but he was a real liability in that OKC series. I like Huff. I really like Carlisle.

My biggest fear is beyond Halber and can they survive the loss of James Johnson, what he brought. Knowing that you're winning any bench-clearing brawl So you can be aggressive because James Johnson's right there. He's your double-deuce bouncer. I'm a heart over and it's a borderline lock for me. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. I think they're going to be good. It doesn't feel good to me to take the under on a team of serious professional basketball players. I'm just doing it anyway. There's something about the season after an overachieving team that had some sort of bad something, somebody left, somebody got injured, whatever. But there's still the DNA of like.

what it took to get to where you got the year before that I think carries over. I really do. Okay. Strong agree with that. Yeah. I think they're going to be in above 500. You're only asking me to win 37 games.

Also, my thing was how much of the DNA is Halliburton? Right. I would argue the DNA is more from Carlisle and that style they had with all these ball handers, all this pressure, all this unselfishness. It's a little like what I had to, not to step on the Celtics section, But I think the Celtics had a real style and a system that even if you take Tatum out of it, which is awful. He's one of the best six players in the league. They're still going to shoot threes.

They're still going to have guys who do certain things and they still know who they are. I like when teams know who they are compared to like a Sacramento. I guess I just take one more shot at them. Do they know who they are or are they just tough mentally and physically? Like, who are they without Tyrese Hallibor and then Miles Turner? I don't know who they are. well, I think Shepard is going to have step up.

Serious dude. And then Matherin, basically those guys are going to split the minutes for the Haliborne 30 plus minutes a game. I don't know. I think they're going to be good. You guys are making me feel bad. That's not the point. Don't worry.

You can make fun of me for this next one. The Chicago Bulls, 32 and a half. Last year, they were 39 and 43. They lost Lonzo Ball and added Isaac O'Coro plus a lottery pick who won't play. Playoffs plus 320. Year 2 of Boozellis. They went 17 and 10 after the All-Star break,

and then the 10th net breaking in the league. So House, why would they go 32 and 50 in a worse east with guys that are a year older? I don't think they are. I'm not taking the under on this team. Billy Donovan, nine of the last 10 seasons, has won at least 39 games. This franchise has given us no indication

that they intend to rewrite the play-in purgatory that they are in. That is their playbook. It's the safest non-tanking bet in the NBA because they just want to go 40 and 42 every year for the rest of a turnity. They want to go to the play-in and lose Miami. Yeah. That is the goal of the Chicago Bulls. They are perfectly aligned to meet that goal this season.

I am taking the over on the Chicago Bulls. To them, 40 and 42 is 62 and 20. It's exactly right. I think the better question is, why is this line so low? for a team that's won 40, 39, and 39. Why is the line so low? I actually think the line is very well placed. I think this team is going to win fewer games than it did last year,

despite the bulk of the team being young. I think the roster is just full of question marks on the wing, almost across the board. Vouch's defense is getting worse and worse every year. Defense is bad. I don't know how they build a competent defense out of this team. I don't know how they build above average offense out of this team. but 32 and a half is just too low.

It's too low for a team that's going to run like hell to try to get to that magical 38, 39 win mark in the play-in. So I'm going over, but I think the line is shrewd. I think this is a worse. Like, I'm going over and I see like 34 and 48. I thought the line should have been 34 and a half. I thought you're getting two free wins. One thing I like about this team as a bad team

is they actually know who they are. They have a style. I went to that Laker game last year when they just ran up and down and tried to run the Lakers off the court. The giddy heave was that game? Yeah. The giddy white together,

I really like Bezellis. Me too. Yes. And I think there's a little under the hood with him to kind of bump this up. And they have more of a bench this year. I mean, even having guys like Herder and Zach Collins, like these guys are at least like Acoros. 10th 11th. Acorro.

These guys are like rotation guys. Bench capable. I think it's an easy over at this number. If you had set the over at 38 and a half, I would have been an under at that, which is where it should be based on what they've done in the past years. It's interesting that the line of solo. They were also 29 and 40 last year, finished 10 and 3 against a pretty angel food cake schedule. So there's some, like, might be some bakery there. That's the thing. We know they don't tank. They, for whatever reason, don't believe in tanking. I said it, it's like one of those rom-coms that come on Netflix

that my wife is trying to decide whether she should click on or not. And the thumbnail has Kate Mara, Patrick Dempsey, and Connie Britton. And my wife's like, huh, I kind of like all three of those people. But I've never heard of this movie. Should I click on this? Is this movie good? I'm like, I don't know. First of all.

That's the 34 and 48 team. You guys stop right now. Connie Britton? You cannot. Disparage Connie Britain? You cannot comp Dartmouth colleges on Connie Britton with anybody on the Chicago Bulls roster. Don't do it, take it back, delete it from the podcast. Mrs. Coach.

Mrs. Coach. I won't have it. I won't have it. All right. You want to compare her to, you know, an all-star, fine. Okay. Not anyone on this team. Last 10 years, the Bulls are 349 and 444.

Great. Mission accomplished. Sixth worst record. The other five teams are all the east. Pistons, number one, Wizards 2, Horn. Hornets 3, Magic 4, Nets 5, Bulls, 6. The six worst teams in the league the last 10 years are all in the east. The king's not being on that list is one of the greatest upsets that I can, like, what, they lit the beam.

But we're all over. We're all over on the Bulls. My stock guy. Oh. Bezalas, really, Bezellas Island. Well, Zach's right here. Not everything can be an island. everybody loves Buzellas

Zach said there's no value Okay Not everything can be an island How dare you? Is there, are we going to have one island We're going to create this year? If you want to create an island I do want to create an island this year

How about you create Dail and Terry Island Julian Phillips Island Those are islands Those are islands I have a couple Celtics islands Pat Williams Island Pat Williams Island

had a decent population for a while It's deserted. It is, yeah. The volleyball is floating off the coast. Josh Minot Island might come up later. Oh, God. All right.

So we're all going over on the Bulls. Over, over, over. Wow. It's a sad state of affairs. The New York Knicks are coming up after we take a break. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandul. The NBA season is coming. Fan Duel is the place to let you play your game.

Everything. Everything they have to get you ready for this season. We'll be talking about a lot on the podcast for not just today, but the rest of the week and next week. Cool bets, season leaders, player specials, win totals, exact team outcomes, playoff parlays. You can go nuts, even better. You can parlay your favorite bets together for an even bigger payout. Take a flyer in the MVP race, crown your champion in October, parlay or playoff dark horses. We're going to be doing our season future boost.

We're trying to figure this out there in the over or under pods. Fando is going to have it. I'll talk about it on my Thursday podcast. We'd like to put three teams together with win totals, 40 plus wins, 45 plus wins, 50 plus wins. Put them together. And we're on a win streak. We lost last year because the stupid sons, but we're going to win this year. So get ready for our boost announced on Thursday's pod. Visit fandle.com slash BS today. And you can start planning your futures bets now. Fandle player game. The Atlantic Division, the New York Knicks, over under 52

and a half, minus 250 for the division plus 380 for the conference, 11-1 to win the title. $2.80 for the one seed house. They added Yaviseli, who we all love, whatever's left to Malcolm Brogden, whatever's left to Jordan Clarkson. They lost precious of Chua, and they exchanged

Tibbs for Mike Brown. Will that solve this? Solve whatever's ailing the next act well. I don't know what it will solve. It's one of those things you could kind of see coming based on how the Indiana series was going. I'm just going to come out and just say right now, they were also like they were pretty healthy last year with their core guys but i'm gonna i'm just

going to lead with it i've seen a lot of unders on this number a lot of the projection systems are under it's a big number what did they win last year 51 games 51 and 31 i'm going over on the nicks okay i feel good about it i think this is good there's this line of thinking like well you know a tib's team always maximizes regular season win totals he overplays everybody blah blah blah there's probably going to be a regression this year i think this team is deeper i think decor holdover guys are pretty hungry to prove, hey, we're not just like some sort of paper tiger from the east

where a real team. We get more continuity. We got cat in the door right before the season started. I know it's a big number. Like, I feel pretty good going over on 52 and a half. I think the Knicks are going to win more games than that. It is a lockover for me. Wow. I think this next team is loaded. I am

putting, it's a two-unit play on the one seed for me. I think the Knicks are the best team in the east. And I think this, The two things about what Zach just said that resonate, Mike Brown is going to come in and immediately free up some aspects of the offense. Their bench, I think, averaged under 22 points a game last year. They had, you know, scoring-wise, one of the most bereft benches in the league in terms of scoring talent.

They have addressed that. They have adults. And I think that the bit that we saw with Brunson injured in the run-up to the playoffs, the onset of the playoffs, where that team got a little more diverse on offense, I think that that clicks, that works with a Mike Brown offense. And I think that that's going to translate into regular season wins. I think they are built for it. I think it's going to be a New York party all season long this upcoming season.

It's a lock for the K-N-I-C-S. Mitch Robb, can we get like a real season out of? him, that's a game changer in terms of just their versatility on both ends of the floor. I just, I've seen a lot of the projection systems be low on the next, I'm the opposite. I test drove it. I really tried to talk myself

into it because I had, I felt like I had one too many overs, and you just go back to last year that the town's trade happens, like, right before the season, basically, and Mitch doesn't play for two-thirds of the season, and their bench was fucking awful. They still won 51 games.

And I think Yaviselli's really good. I don't know why more teams weren't on him. I thought I really let Cornett too, but Cornett going for twice the price of Yabasela I thought was crazy. I also think there's some McBride stuff with them that they

can unlock. Because as the Celtic fan going against him, I was happy when they would take him out. And there's some him and Brunson together stuff I think they could do. I don't know. I just him, I don't think Brogden has anything left. I guess

We'll find out. Spot minutes and he's smart. He's not a big dummy. Maybe. He's not a dummy. I do think it's... And then Shamit found himself in the playoffs a little bit. So maybe they have 10 guys.

I like Shamit. It's confusing to me that Shamet can never hold down like you can't just be a consistent 10th man. Like no one seems to trust me. I like him. I like them for this team. There's home court advantage to with them. And the TIPS thing was just super weird last year.

It was weird to watch in person. He was playing everybody too many minutes. The only thing that really worried me was, If the Janus thing goes bad and all that rumor stuff starts and trades and just this team being in trade rumors could undermine something. I always feel like we underrate that. It would always happen with LeBron teams where starting December, January, February, these guys were just being rumors. And then you could see how it would affect the team. Towns in Annanobie would be the natural some sort of piece for Janus.

And it's just, if they're just going to be in rumors from January on, I think that fucks a team. But I don't think it's going to be enough to, in a bad East, they, 54, 55 feels right, right? Yeah. And this is, you know, like they're, it's a, it's an organization that's all on the same page. It's the CAA, right? It's the CAA organization. Everybody's seeing eye to eye. There isn't any backstabbing.

There isn't going to be any undermining. You're just trying to suck up to Vino right now? Well, I mean, I always suck up the Vino because I was saying, how else am I going to get a beautiful master's best out of, you know? with the CA logo on it. But there is something to be... That is right hand up. I think, yes.

There's something to be said for that institutional stability and Mike Brown that fit. Like there's a fit to the whole thing. There's going to be a real energy around this team this year. Especially if Cleveland starts out a little gamey.

If the buck start out nine and ten. This is the most exciting slash pressurized New York Knicks season from the jump. since Patrick Ewing's prime. Yeah. This is a mid-

That's what's at stake. And that's the thing. Those next teams would go 16, 22, 59, and 23, whatever. All right, we're all on. Wow. I thought for sure somebody would be under. I really want, I tried.

I test drove it. I looked at it. I just couldn't get there. What Pelton, some of the projections are like, oh, sure, wow. The problem is when you actually start looking at their schedule and you're like, well, they're going to be favored by 11 in that one.

They'll be favored by 15 in that one. They'll be favored by 8 there. This will be more fun, the Philadelphia 76ers. For the record, Peltin has then projected 47 wins, the Knicks. Crazy. Okay. Philadelphia, 42 and a half, plus 490 for the division, 13-1 for the conference, minus 240 for the playoffs. They were 24 and 58 during a tank-tastic 2004-25 campaign.

They added BJ Edgecombe, they lost Yavis-Seli. they're getting Embed back, we think. McCain's hurt already for a while. When does McCain come back? That's going to be unclear. I don't think it's too, too long. Yeah, it's not like in the December, the end of November. There's a scenario where this team,

Embed, who's skinnier, we should mention. Skinny Embed and some guards and a slightly rejuvenated Paul George and stuff's happening. There's also a scenario where the coach GM are just getting cleaned out in like January. If you had to pick one of those two scenarios, what would you pick,

Sack? You have to pick one. What was the first one? First one is Skinny and Beads, some guards. The vibes are good. Didn't realize Paul George had this much left in the tank. Oh, can kind of see the vision. I think that's a little more likely than everyone gets fired in

December January. I don't particularly think either one is likely, but we'll get there. Great. What do you got for this team? There's almost no number that's realistic that you could have given me where I would take the over. I just can't do it. I'm sorry. Like, I can't do it.

I get the upside scenarios. Yeah. I get that they shot, like, I looked this up yesterday because last year, you can point to the missed games. And they missed a ton of games. Everyone knows that. Last year was also the first year that they were not good with Embed on the floor. Like, it was the first year that they were either neutral or like with all three of Embeded and George and Maxxie. Actually, they were plus two with Embed on the plus two like total points.

So like neutral. You know what the big reason for that was other than that he was hurt and seemingly had a shit? Yeah, it wasn't the same guy. He doesn't protect the rim anymore. Well, look, I'm just saying. The rim protection stats with him were terrible last year. And PG for as disappointing as he was, it wasn't like he became abysmal. He 16 a game, 43% shooting, 36% on 3s.

Like it's kind of what you would expect for a player entering the tail. end of their time in the NBA's in his mid-30s. It's a low number. I just cannot, in good conscience, go over it. I just can't. I don't trust the infrastructure. And I say that, like, I look this up. This is what I looked up.

They shot 29.8% on threes in Embedd's minutes last year. Like, that's unthinkably bad and should be a case for some encouraging. I just, how can I bet it comes up in that? How can anyone bet the over on this team right now? Embed, 11 years, 452 games, house, 31 years old, never made the Easter Conference finals, won five playoff series total. I think it's better to go to the gas station and get a scratch ticket than to bet on this team going over.

I wouldn't bet anything on this team. I wouldn't bet any, it's a complete stay away over, under anything, but we have to make a non-bet I'm picking under, but it's a complete stay away for me. I would go to the Wawa, the Philadelphia Wawa, and grab a nice scratcher. I would get $100 worth of scratches and try and, that's not a Philadelphia accent. I can't do Philly. I will say Embed being in better shape this year, I think, is encouraging. He's listed day-to-day right now.

So is Paul George. That part's not encouraging. Day-to-day. Hard under for all of us? I'm not locking it. It's not hard. It's not a lock. I just had a hard under.

Who the hell knows what's going to happen? I thought about locking out. It's a scratch ticket. The Embed thing's too bad. I know we've been critical on him on all the pods, but it just was more fun when he was really good. It was fun to have a guy like that in the league that on any night might drop 60 on a Tuesday night on league pass.

And I know the era's kind of over now, but... Well, let's press the legacy button. If he plays 60 games... No, he needs 65 to qualify. He's not going to play 60s. I don't think so either. 65's impossible. He's going to sit back to back.

So you're already subtracting whatever. Bring him out for a minute, then sit him down, AC Green style. He's not going to be eligible for any of the awards. That's the reason, the only reason I mentioned 65. But if he plays 58 games, 55 games, and this team gets through the east with 44 wins or whatever, and then he and Paul George are both healthy. and Jeremy McCain and Maxie are healthy. And Edgecombe is a revelation.

And they arrive at the playoffs and they win the first two rounds of the playoffs because they get to play depleted Milwaukee or depleted Indiana, something like that, Toronto, who's made the push up. And they're into the Eastern Conference Finals. Is there something we're going to say nice things about Joe L&B? Of course. Eastern Conference Finals. That sounds great.

They've literally never been to the Eastern Conference Finals and Joy. It's why I'm saying. I think their ceiling is we get to the end of the season and they're like a nobody wants to play us team in the first round of the playoffs. I can't anything beyond that. My soul is too injured to even imagine at this point. Completely understand. When you're sailing is hopefully we can become and nobody wants to play us nine seed. I'm going under.

It's just the repetitive knee injuries are scary. Yeah. for the best player on the team. I'm just too old now and so are you house with basketball. We've just seen too many seasons. We know how this goes with the injury guys. It never ends well. Obviously an under.

Celtics over 42 and a half. Division 8 to 1. Conference 11 to 1. Title 33 to 1. Playoffs minus 225. They turned Drew Holiday and Anthony Simons. They turned Porzingis and new Luca Garza and Josh Mynott and Chris Boucher, they lost Al Horford, they lost Luke Cornett, they turned Jason Tatum

for at least four months into Hugo Gonzalez. They have a $22.5 million trade exception in their own 2026 first. They're in the first apron, $12 million over the luxury tax line. And for a while, we thought this would be a tank season because they have their own pick. And then Jason Tatum kept doing Instagram videos of how good he was looking. And now he's dunking in the practice center and trying to make history with the fastest killies come back. And then now openly saying, I am coming back. I'm going to be on the team this year.

And I've told the Celtics that. 42 and a half sec. What do you got? Under. Okay. Under. The case. I just think they lost so much.

much. Their front court is just a morass of completely unproven guys. And I understand like the stuff I said about serious dudes with Indiana. These are serious dudes and a serious coach that are used to winning, that know what it takes to win, that know how far you can get in the NBA by just playing hard and playing right every single night. I get all that. They just lost so much that like if Derek White misses 15 games, it's just that they have no. no margin for white or brown missing any time this season. And you combine that with all the incentives that are pointing to, like, are they going to try to duck the tax?

Is this going to be, if we get to the 40 game mark and we're not doing well? Does this transition into the tank gap year that, you know, people sort of started to? I just think there's too much, they lost too much and there's too much tugging. I'm going under. I'm sorry. who he apologized to you what do you mean i'm fine you've got tatum coming back on christmas i mean honestly i hope he doesn't i hope he comes back when he's 120 percent ready to come back i hope he's like cleared to play and then two more months pass before he plays house under 42 and 40 for the boston seltics

that is under 42 and a half it is i honestly would have bet the over if it stayed at 41 and a half because 42 and 42 and 40 is over. It's so funny you said that because I was a cop out. I was leaning. No, they're exactly a 500 team. Like the DNA that you just described is of a winning team and the design of this team is going to be fascinating. They're going to take a minimum of 63s a game. Jalen Brown said he's on a track team, not a basketball team. That's going to be fun to watch. I'm going to enjoy watching it. They're not going to get any offensive rebounds. So they better make the threes. They better be a lot of made three. They better be a lot of made But against the East, that's a 500 team with the players they have.

So I'm betting on them being a 500 team. That's under. Come on. Come on. Go over? You got to go over. It was so much more enticed to me at 41.5. Are you serious?

One win? Yeah, one win. 43 and 39 is way less enticing. I can't lose less than 40 games. You just made the case for the under and it's a good case. So here's the thing I think it's 50-50 Like I think it's straight

It's not like our Philly argument Where I'm like I'm not sure gonna it There's two outcomes The one is that The system they play with And all the threes they shoot with And the Missoula being an alpha All that stuff

That it just translates better The regular season than people think And they know how to play with each other There's real familiarity, real DNA The other thing is what Zach said where if like one guy goes down for four weeks with a sprained ankle, the entire team falls apart

or the balance is way off. I'm going to go over anyway. Yes. Yeah. Good. That's good. I think they're going to be pretty good. I don't think it would be fine.

All the guys that they got, all the weird signings they have, all these bigs, they're all like energy guys who play hard. On paper, the reboundings could be a disaster. Disaster. Not on paper on the basketball court. Everyone's going to try.

I think Jalen is going to kind of secretly enjoy this whole. I agree with you. Alpha Jalen. We still have me. I'm sorry. I thought I was still one of the best 20 players in the league. Why don't we a playoff team? I like it.

And I really like the guards. I think the guards are going to be a problem in crunch time. Pritchard, Simon's, white, all together with Jalen and one big, and they just go super small Indiana style. And I think teams are going to be like, what is this? They're, look, I don't feel super confident about the under. Like, the guards are really good. I just think the team is super thin in proven NBA players.

Couldn't agree more. Thin is just bad for regular season today. I really like Simons on this team. I think he's a potential. Like, closes games, like they're running plays for him in certain matchups kind of guy. I think there's games where he's just going to have, like, 35 points. There's, didn't be running up and down there. be like, just fucking shoot three is Anthony.

For the Nets or for the Celtics? Well, that's the question. The question with this over-under is will Simons be in the team in February? There's different ways they can cut the tax bill. They can get under it. They can flip a couple minimums here and there. There's different ways. But if Tatum's playing the last 30 games.

I'm sorry. What? If Tatum's playing the last 30 games, hypothetically. So he comes back? Last 30 is February. Yeah. Who plays more games this year, Jason Tatum or Joel Embed? Come on.

Answer the question. Wow, that's a great one. It's a great one. Let's get Fandle to write a prop for that. It's got to be Embedde. Come on. Fembeed. What's he over under for Embedged game?

I don't know. I just ask who's playing more. Embed's a safer bet. Embeddead would be favored in that matchup. I would have bet it. I can't believe you're thinking about this. I just don't. I mean...

I love everything about the Celtics discussion. I'm still going under. Me too. We didn't talk about Missoula enough. So I'm just going to mention this one other piece. I don't think that dude's built to tank. I think he's an absolute maniac. And you talk about like what the Celtics used to have with KG way back when,

where it was just like every practice, every game, just like crazy, crazy, crazy. I think he's like the KG for this team. Just to be clear, this isn't a tank bet. The under isn't a tank bet. The under is that Derek White misses 15 games or the Janet Brown. It's going to be right in that low 40s. The under is like, wait, how much?

How many minutes did Baylor Shireman play last night? He looks great. Like, he couldn't be very good. He's just young and unproven, unproven. Property available on Shireman Island. No, but Josh Mynott Island, I did put a little something down. Toronto Raptors, 39 and a half. They added Mamu.

They added Murray Boyles. They lost Boucher. They have one of the weirdest roster slash, salary cap situations but I think they have like a top 10 expensive roster they're over the tax they're in the first apron over the tax

I don't understand the team and the over is like right around where I would have had it there's actually a little action plus 104 on the over for 39 and a half if you want to do that uh Zach's always always a complimentary

of the Raptors you're kind of in the back for them a little bit it's a great line 39 and a half. Yeah. What do you have? Over. Over by default. The two sweetest words in the English language default.

I just think they have too much talent. I understand all the questions about how weird the fit is. The bench is unproven. Are any of these shooting guards going to pop? Does Murray Boyles give us anything? Blah, blah, blah. They just missed so many games due to injury last year. And I just think there's, I can get to 42 wins with this roster.

If quickly can give me 65, 70. If ever, all the core guys give me some sort of minimum threshold of games, I can get to 42 wins in these. And the organization top down has to win. They're like, this is a, this is a front office that is a holdover front office, new controlling owner under super amounts of pressure to see, yeah, this model works. This team we built works.

I'm going over. So for them to hit this house, they were 30 and 52 last year. They'd have to be 10 wins better. I mean, they weren't even trying for, Two months. They actively took wins off the table in that stretch. They were ahead of teams considerably in the second half and just walked themselves back to losses.

It was appalling if you were a Toronto fan rooting for wins. Fine if you were betting on second half, you know, the other teams to beat them in the second half. This is a lock over for me. This is a lock. For all the reasons, Zach just mentioned, Plus, I mean, look, they, they met five of their top six players last year missed a combined 143 games. Like, they, they had, you know, bottom three injury luck in the league.

I like the coach. I think the coach is, is a real dude. You know, I, this, you, I said this to you and you laughed. I think they have in their own heads the idea of being a poor man's Oklahoma City, which is to get out in transition to force turn over. You know, to take force teams to miss threes and get moving. And they have the guys that can convert. Now, this is why I asked, Zach, about the plant situation in Toronto.

They have extended Brandon Ingram. They didn't just sign that homeboy and say, please show up and give us a good year. They said to that, man, we want you here. And this is a lot of investment in Mr. Ingram. I'm willing to make it, but look, he has to show us this year that he wants to play competitive basketball because it's a team that's built for a decent showing in a weakened east. So I was leaning under for a while with them, and my issue was that they spent all this money in capital to basically lock down a 43-win ceiling roster, which I just didn't fundamentally understand.

I don't want to be in the area they are with this really no chance to improve it. It's expensive, and you don't really have a chance to maybe do anything. But with that mindset, 39 and a half, they should be over that because they've spent all this money to lock in a 43 and 39 team, so maybe that's what they're going to be. I don't see a scenario where this team's terrible, especially in the East, they'll score points. I don't know if they'll make sense as we're watching them, right? And there's a Scotty Barnes is there something else there?

I don't personally think there is. Some people like it more than I think I do. His shooting really regressed last year across the board. He was dealing with some pretty bad ankles, playing through some pretty bad ankle stuff for a lot of last year. I'm betting on a Scotty Barnes bounce back.

The Ingram piece, and if you're going the other way, like Ingram was available for a year and nobody wanted him. that was weird right he left that left that team USA thing

basically bagged out near the end had an injury or whatever but he wasn't going to play and so you're building around him and Barnes two guys that I don't know if I trust for to lead anything

I do like some of their younger guys a little bit as at least rotation guys but I think they're right somewhere between 40 and 43 you're going over we're all going over on the yeah I didn't want to but I think there's no other outcome.

Yeah, you sound like you're... I don't feel great about it. I locked it. Yeah, I don't feel great about it. Brooklyn Nets, over under 19 and a half. I'm going under. I'll just tell you guys now. They're going to be awful.

This team, wow. I mean, wow. We can keep it quick if you want. I'm also going under. We're all going under. The only thing to talk about is how good that coach is. And I'm super impressed. He's another one like Will Hardy to me.

He deserves the shot once they get the talent. to stay and, and, you know, coach some, some legit talent. Yeah, but they did front office Jordy proofed the roster this year. I mean, like, they did. The only argument for the over is three of their starters are Cam Thomas, Michael Porter, Jr. and Nick Claxton. That's like those are. Hold on, let me tell my grandkids. I said, I said the only argument for an over on a line of 19 and a half ones, you don't have to tell your grandkids about it.

Those are like representative NBA starter level players. Now, and one of them, Cam Thomas, can handle the ball and run some of the offense. I just think, A, they're all going to be trade candidates, and B, if you hand an NBA team to rookie guards, and they have a thousand of them, their results are generally, like, disastrous. I said this in June. The draft picks they made are all guys who need the ball, even that Danny Wolf, he needs the ball. They drafted all these dudes who need the ball. and then they're going to all throw them out in the court together. I really like the draft last year.

I didn't like their draft. The offense is going to be a mess. And I... This team's going to be awful. This is a... All right, we all went under. Trying to give your tickets away. It's a bummer that it ticked down from 20 and a half to 19 and a half.

Would any net play on OKC? It's a mean question. I think Nick Claxton now. I agree. Claxton give them. Who's he playing over? Jalen Williams? No, he's going to get all the home green missed game minutes.

Yeah, there's miss game minutes there to be had. Would any net play in the nuggets? Michael Porter Jr. knows the system. Back up. When does Brooklyn flip the tank switch? It's flipped. They're right. The season starts on October the 22nd.

They'll let you already try to win games for a month. I don't think so. They are praying someone gets desperate enough to take the Michael Porter Jr. contract off their hands, I'm sure. Can I give you, before we go to a break, the Brooklyn Nets 15 years in Brooklyn Recap? It's a really, it's a winding tale. Seven coaches and two playoff series wins. They went for it, tanked, went for it, tanked.

They peaked for three weeks in 2021 with Zach's most theoretical, great team of all time. The greatest theoretical team of all time. They built the Tatum Brown dynasty in Boston. They have some future picks. and they're the third most popular professional basketball team in New York. You just, you left out so much stuff. I've just given you the highlights.

What else do you want to put in there? Well, like we don't, there's a lot. There's a plague. There's a plague on the world that affected their team more than other people. There's a mascot that they created and then murdered because everybody hated it so much. The Brooklyn Night, RIP. There's good pizza.

It's been a wild, wild. I was thinking in my head, like, how many of the seven coaches could we name in 30 seconds? let's say if this is a good one for house because he's a little groggy now because he is in a coffee in five hours true how many Nets coaches can you name from the 15 years four maybe would you start naming him what's here

Steve Nash Jordy Fernandez oh from from the Jack Vaughn he coached one of them's easy from the last five years he's now coaching another NBA team I don't know I'm Kenny Atkinson oh yeah of course yeah Kenny is good Avery Johnson Lionel Hollins would not have gotten either one of them Jason Kidd is that it I think

that's it wow good job by us there's so it's crazy there's a guy there's isn't Tony Brown isn't there like an interim Tony there's some interns yeah there's I don't count the in terms right they uh they're Mark's still there we've we've talked about them too long John Mark's still there. They can swap there at first in Houston, 2007, but it's Houston's choice, which is not good for them. Houston can swap first.

Not good for them. Anyway, we'll take one more break with the southeast, the most fun of all the divisions. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people,

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slash Simmons bill. Terms and conditions apply. as you could tell from this overunders pod I love betting NBA futures one of my favorite things gives you a little stake not just in your team but you can pick five six seven other teams

just kind of monitor their progress over the six months season I like doing finals winners I like doing pairings for the finals I'm not allowed to bet on any of the awards because I have a vote but the playoff stuff is really fun playing is kind of a fun one

season leaders you can bet on stuff like, well, Wembe, have a quadruple double this year. You can bet on that on Fandole. You can parlay stuff together. I love betting on Steph Curry for most threes every season because he usually wins if he plays enough games. Anyway, we're going to be talking about a bunch of these during the Overrunner podcast. And then on Thursday night's podcast, we're going to be announcing our big super boost for the upcoming season. That will be Friday, 1014 on Fandle. Be ready. Southeast Orlando Magic over 15.5

minus 185 for the division 6 to 1 for the conference plus 450 for the one seed they lost Co-Anthony, KCP and finally thankfully Gary Harris they added Desmond Bain they added Tice Jones

they added Jace Richardson who a lot of a lot of the stealth draft nerds really like and think might actually play for them Mo Wagner is going to come back at some point yes

pretty deep team Desmond Bain's the big, the big, the big ad. So they went 34 in 2023, 47 and 24. Last year regressed to 21. And the thinking, the common thinking with this team, with the over under being 50 and a half, is that this will be a top three team in the east.

Do you agree, Zach Lowe? This is a huge number. When I first saw this number at 50 and a half, with starting with a five, I was like, whoa. That's, I was prepared to like hammer the over on the early end of magic because I thought it was going to be like 47 and a half, 46 and a half, 50 and a half for a team that hasn't been a top 20 offense in a gazillion years, team that can't shoot straight. Yeah, they got Desmond Bain, blah, blah, blah. And you

know what? I'm hammering you over. Over, over, over. Give me all the action. I just think this team's defense is a legit top three to five defense. Every night they play super hard. Palo, leap, Franz, Leap, Suggs can't be any less healthy than he was last year. Bain, huge addition, Tyus Jones, use addition. Young guys, I like to say. Silva even like Anthony Black mini leap, I'm just, I just think this team's going to be a regular season wins machine over 50 and a half for a team that hasn't won this many games

in a long time. They could do that. They did start last year, 17 and 9. 47 wins two years ago. Yeah. I just don't think they're gonna. I mean, we're already in Jalen Suggs. What's the timeline for, you know, for him? I don't think he's far away from what I've heard. He's not far away. He's not far away.

Okay. Jaylen Suggs timeline injury. Go keep talking to us. I'm just looking at this. The real thing to me is... Ooh, left knee trochlea cartilage tear. Yeah. Well, we knew about that.

I'm just... Yeah, you're getting the timeline. Expected, maybe, sort of, removed. The secret sauce, and I was kind of a prick about it last year. I just need Franz Wagner to be a consistent score in this basketball elite. You don't want him to shoot, like. I need him to, like, he had one season of good three-point shooting. I'm all in on fronts.

You have to be. That's the only way to get to the over here. Zach's all in on friends. He's a, you know what he is? All in. All right. The hitch is what it is. It appears.

It disappears. It reappears. First of all, unlike most guys with jump shooting, whatever he had, he keeps shooting, at least. And he's just a basketball player. You know how to play both things? Big Euro basket. I want you to go under. Go under.

Come on. I already wrote it down. I'm under. Yeah, we're both under. Orlando Magic fans. Just remember who had your back at 50 in a freak and half. Me. That's a high number.

It's a high number. You know what? I just think 51 and 31 is a really good record for a team that is pretty young, that's adding a big Bain piece that does know when Suggs is coming back, that has this Franz. I never know what I'm getting from him on. a month. Let me see.

I don't go ahead. I don't 100% love the coach. Oh, there we go. Sorry. That's the part of it. Make your, you know what else I don't like Zach Lo? Yeah,

what don't you like? Lots of expectations for a team that hasn't done Jack shit. It's a good over under recipe for, you know, we fell for it last year with them and they had the year from hell. But I just think like, if this team goes 49 and 33, that's a great season for them.

So is 50 and 32. 32. Another great season for them. 48, 34, congratulations. Over. it's an under it's an over for me we got to see one time

people were begging for it last year let's see a little offensive ingenuity a little innovation out of Orlando it can't just we can't just continue to tolerate the miss shots you asked earlier

what happened to KCP what's the answer I don't know right I don't know but none of us have an explanation the bench wings make me a little bit nervous

like I'm counting on De Silva to give me something I might be counting on Jason Richard to give me something. I'm definitely counting on Anthony Black to give me more. That makes me a little nervous.

Jonathan Isaac, I don't know how to pencil him in. They just have a lot of guys. They're like, what am I getting from this guy? What am I getting in this guy? I think Bain is a transformational stylistic player.

I think he will unlock a lot of different things they can do offensively. I don't think he's like a top 30 player in the NBA, but he's not far from that. But I think for them, he's a game changer. I respect the culture. I respect the effort.

I'm going to over. You cannot talk me out of it. I like being on an over island. Over Island is the most fun place to be on this podcast. They have, I did my top hundred exercise for the ringer, and they had five guys in the list. Atlanta, 47 and a half, another team with a ton of expectations. So I chose to go slightly under with Orlando and slightly over with Atlanta.

because it's a combo deal yeah i i felt like you had to choose and you couldn't go over for both i love they're 4042 last year and i just like everything they did Alexander walker poor zingas carnard uh jalen johnson back missed what he missed the last two thirds of the season um i think he has a chance to be an all-star congwu they finally gave him the car keys got rid of capella and Trey Young contract here. But I just like the team. I think this is a really fun regular season, get some wins,

high 40s range. So the over under, I wish it was one lower. I wish it was 46 and a half, but I still have to go over. What do you have, House? I'm in the same boat because I thought about it the same way,

which is to say, if I'm going to go under on Orlando, then I'm going to go over on Atlanta, and this number stayed right at that 47.5. There was 46 as early, And I think in the summer, it was like 45. So there was some great numbers. Oh, man.

Remember the draft? Yeah. I mean, they were like 60 to 1 in the 8. There was some great future bets with them. Yes. And now it's at the right number. It's settled at exactly 47 and a half, which I think is a super fair number. This is what you're gambling on if you take the over.

You're gambling on the infectious enthusiasm of Alexander Walker and Dyson together to create a defensive. With Jalen Johnson. Yes. So there's your defense. Because this team didn't play no defense. This is a no defense situation out on the perimeter. They gave up threes to everybody and their sister last year. This team better come out and play some defense on the goddamn perimeter.

This is also a bet on Quinn Snyder. And, you know, we made this bet before. We lost on Atlanta that we win or lose last year. We won in Atlanta last year. Okay, all right. One other thing on this before we get to Zach, who's ready to Zag. He is. He's going to murder us.

It's a stealth move team. They have really good picks. They have that Pelicans 26 first and their own. They have a $13 million trade exception. Maybe Risha Shay could be in the right table and the right thing. Maybe Jalen Johnson, if you want to start talking and have a real honest conversation. I was going to say they're the stealthy honest team because they own the rights to Milwaukee's picks, too. So it's an over for Mean House.

What do you have? You know, I don't have to choose between Orlando and Atlanta. I went under on Indiana, I went under on Boston, I went under on Detroit. I'm going emphatically over on the Atlanta Hawks. There's no zag. If there's a zag, it's that, I don't have any of this. If it was 46 and a half, I'd feel a lot better. That's chicken shit stuff.

I'm going over, no thought. The Hawks are going over 47 and a half, and the magic are going over 50 and a half, over. They have some of my favorite players. I've always wanted Luke Conard to be on one good team. I always felt like on the right situation, he could be a really good rotation guy. He had a Memphis moment, but it's never been like just like for a year.

I always wanted to go to Denver. I thought he would have been an awesome Nuggets bench guy. Obviously, Porzingis, I got to watch that and so did Howe's firsthand. When he plays, he's genuinely impactful. So even if you pencil him in for 50 games, the team's going to be fucking awesome in the 50 games. They're going to be able to go Porzengis

with the three perimeter guys and Trey at Crunch Time. and I think they're going to be really hard to guard. We used to say should be better this year. He was up and down. It's a good situation for him. But their core guys are 23, 22, and 20. The case for the under is every time we're all ready to trust the Hawks as an NBA collective.

It's a fact. They kick us in the nuts. You were right. Shooting is a little shaky. Their bench after Conard, Alexander Walker, and Akangu, so now we're into eight guys. The bench after that makes me very nervous. They're going to need Newell to play. They're going to need to make a trade, which they have the pieces.

They have the exception and things to do. You cannot, and I cannot temper my enthusiasm. I'm going over. So over under Atlanta All-Stars, I'm going to give you the definites. Janus, Cade, Palo, Brunson, Mitchell, and Mobley. I think those are the six definite All-Stars. Jaylon Brown didn't make the list? Probables, Jalen Brown, BAM, and Towns.

I think we can comfortably say those are nine All-Stars, barring an injury. There's three spots left. could the Hawks have two All-Stars? So that would have to be Trey. And then I think Jalen Johnson. Oh, okay. Not Dyson Davis. I would bet against it because we still have to account for all the Sixers guys,

whoever among them survives. I forgot about the Walking Dead. Did you say Bancaro? You said Bancao, right? I said Pengo. So there could be a Bane in there. You know what? You know what?

It's very possible they could have, too. I thought Jalen Johnson I thought that was the most underrated injury last year Scottie Barnes maybe if we'll even try But I thought that was the most underrated injury last year because he was really becoming a guy

like a capital G guy and then he was gone and then nobody talked about him again If Embed plays half the games and has a great and has good numbers the coaches will pick him because he'll just he's got that kind of stature

and then Maxie is still there if you could pick any a bet against two of two hawks all-stars if you could pick any east team to have three all-stars which one would you pick it has to be cleveland right well yeah yeah i'd say still still cleveland mowellie feels like the most likely trio orlando not for me though okay alina halena um with the two picks and the trade exception to me there there's a bench guy they don't have yet that they're going to have and it'll be like worst case scenario george nang who maybe they can't even trade for him because they already had him. But somebody of that ilk, somebody who's like

a very impactful eighth man. Miami Heat, 38 and a half. They added Norm Powell and Fontechio and Achua and Yakishunis, my favorite post-laterer rookie. Wow, I didn't know he had that status. Oh, yeah. I was so mad when they got him. It was classic Miami. He could draft anybody and you'd be mad that you got him. No, that one made me mad because it was like he just, he just fell five spots lower than he should have. It was stupid. And I was vindicated in the GM survey. Everyone said that was like the steel pick. They lost Robinson.

They lost Highsmith, who they gave away. Remember, I said that. They lost Kyle Anderson. They have their own 2026 first. Most important, Tyler Hero, ankle surgery, he's out. They're saying like, maybe

end of December to me that means like all-star break. They always lie about that shit. Could be 35, 40 miss games. Does that make Miami a stealth tank candidate for you, Zach Love? This is my blind faith pick. He culture? You and Adonis Haslam, the only two left in He Culture Island? Because the tank scenario is there.

The hero injury timetable is unclear. I don't think it's going to be as bad as you said, but I don't know. I don't know. I just always add three to four weeks to any time table. 37 and 45 last year. Yep. and their best perimeter ball handler is injured. Yes, they introduced another one

in Norm Powell, not a playmaker like hero. The playmaking quotient is getting pretty low. By the way, Norm Powell is more like a heat check. Finisher, straight line, finisher, shoot some threes. Just like gets hot for five minutes. He's not like, let's run a week of plays for Norm Powell. That was the idea with Terry Rozier. I don't know what in the hell is going on there.

What is you can possibly be expected out of him. But this is my blind faith pick. I'm allowing myself the leeway of, like, I just trust the infrastructure. I think some of the young players, like people are already out on Hakez. I think Hockes bounces back. I like Yovic. I like where, see what Yacchunis gives him. Yovych is just a blind, anybody with an itch, you're in.

I like Yovych. Like you're itch all-stars. He stays healthy. He's an itch, but he's also going to be good. There's literally no evidence of that, but fine. And he shot, you know what, we're not going to argue about Nicole. Yovich on this podcast. I'm going over on the heat. It's my blind faith pick. Hardest working, hardest playing, toughest, whatever you want to write on the court. They get points. They're bringing back to Miami Vice jerseys. That's like five wins. I'm over. I was excited for that.

It's not, I bet you guys are both going under. Oh, wow. 100% going under. Under's the smart picks. I'm going over. I'm a hard under. I am over. Oh, my God. I'm waiting. I am over. Wow. I don't know how it's like I thought of it in. You might lock it in. I'm locking in. I wouldn't lock in against heat culture. This team in each of 17, Spolster's 17 seasons has top 36 wins. Every season.

So we're looking, they won 37 games last year in what should, it was the most disastrous. Jamie Butler tried to sabotage the basketball team. He effectively sabotaged the basketball team. He did it. He fucked them up so bad.

And they won 37 games. And they were the worst crunch time team, like imaginable. They were so bad. Do you recall how many times I went on the ringer gambling show and told people to live bet the Miami Heat in the fourth quarter? Live bet whoever's playing them. It doesn't matter how much they're up by.

They gave up double-digit leads in the fourth quarter at an unprecedented rate last year. And it was because they didn't have an offensive solution. Tyler Hero just took the ball the last four and a half minutes of every single game. And they lost a bunch of those. We made a bunch of money out. there. This is the question for me. Let's say Tyler Harrow was starting this season and playing healthy. 100%. He's good. He's playing 82 games. What would you think their record would be?

Well, the line was not much different than this before his injury, right? Yeah, it was like below 40. I think they're 45 win team. I think they're closer to like the Pistons, uh, Bucks tier of the east than they are to where they are. Yeah. I think they're, I have them in the Pacers Celtics cluster of there's DNA here, but I'm not sure I trust what's going on. But not having Hero for, he was everything they did at crunch time. What are they going to do at crunch time now? They're going to run place. All they did last year was lose. Yeah, win games. Can't get any worse. Just lose worse. But here's the thing. If you start out the first two months, then they start out 10 and 16 or 10 and 17. That's what worries me, the pick

incentive. At that point, you're like, fuck it. Yeah, that's right. Oh, you want Andrew Wiggins? You're willing to give us a first. Have we said enough about Cleo Ware yet? Look, there's a reason I called this my blind faith pick. I'm just giving Miami the over. I'm just doing it out of respect. Moving on to Charlotte. I'm going under. Over, over, under. Charlotte Hornets, 26 and a half

is the over under. They lost use of nerchage. You're leading with nerd. That's a loss. Mark Williams, Seth Curry, and Akogi. They added Colin Sexton, Dean Whitty, one of the Plumlies, Coniton,

conitin, Knapple, McNeely and Colk Brenner who's getting a lot of buzz a lot of Colk Brenner bus like a lot He better Like a lot of buzz He'd be playing a lot of minutes A lot of buzz he's starting for them

But he better They're just They just have way more talent Than they did last year When you include the part that Brandon Miller's actually going to play basketball and be healthy

That lamello ball is going to try to be healthy and is at a fork in the road What the hell are you season Can you pull? is worth minimum 10 to 12 wins for you? Who? Canipel. We're at the point where your lawyers told you it's now okay to start talking about. I just think he's

going to be immediately impactful. Just glue guy. He's going to rebound. This team, even though they have a center, I think they're going to rebound. They have guys who are fill the box score guys. Bridges had a pretty good year, statistically last year.

But I think we have to set a debt. Before we do our picks, we have to set a deadline for, can we find out if Lamello is a superstar or not? What year is that going to be? It could be this year, it can be next year. You can go two years from now. Just let's set a deadline for it. Because I don't want to talk about it anymore.

A superstar? Superstar. I mean, I'd give that another couple of years. I'd settle this year for like All-Star. Okay. So two more years. Great. Two more years.

Yeah. Can't have a reference. He's one of the most popular person in the league. Yeah, but popular. But the league needs him to be. be good. Like, they need good stuff to happen

with them in this team. I like the coach. Yeah. I think the front office and the ownership but everything they've done are things I would do if I ran a team

and I was trying to rebuild and just be like, I'll take that asset. I'll grab that. Grant Williams might be back at some point. Congrats. I can't defend the saloon pick

whatever his name is because we didn't say a lot. Ceyon Salon. Salon. Doesn't look great as of today. Guys. It's an over for me.

I think they're going to be a competitive bad team. I think they're like in the high 20s. I think they'll win some games and kind of hang around. And I don't think the East is good. I am also an over. I think my, okay, there are two reasons I don't feel great about it. Number one, does ownership actually want to win games this year? Do they want one more bite at the Apple, particularly since what they get out of salon is going to be a question mark?

like that might have been one bite and it may not yield fruit. We'll see. Number two, I just don't know how the hell Charles Lee is going to make this defense anything better than abysmal. Like of Miles Bridges plus whatever non-entities they have at center defense is just drawing dead from the beginning. But I think offensively they could be all right. And just like I think Lamello is a good offense player.

The numbers suggest their offense was okay with him last year. Miller was a zero last year because of health he's going to play. And this could be with the lack of teams in the West that are outright tanking other than Utah, and combined with the fact that we have now seen a decent amount of years with these new lottery odds where losing at a high level does not reward you the way that it used to. Huge point. I think this team could win 28 games and still be like the fifth or six worst record in the NBA and be absolutely fine with that. I am hammering the over. I might lock the Charlotte Hornets over. Amazing.

Which is insane. Yeah, every year, I was looking it up for the last few years because I thought this is one of the most interesting ones. We have like five or six teams that are like 26 wins and under. Right. So the worst six are usually 25 wins or below. And the question with this bet would be, are they going to be one of the worst six teams? And when you think they're in the east, there's easy wins to be had.

And there's players they have that are like Brandon Miller wants to prove that he's, he's a good player. He's got an extension stuff coming up. La Mello wants to prove that you can build a franchise around him. And then Knappel wants to prove he's a good player right away. And Charles Lee wants to prove he's a decent. There's a lot of proving stuff with this team.

I think they'd be fun to watch. I think, you know, I always look at these 4 o'clock on the West Coast here. And it's always Charlotte, Miami and Washington and Toronto. I mean, we just said before, the six worst teams of the last 10 years, we're all in the east. these teams are always on at 4 o'clock

Charlotte's probably the one I would gravitate to of all those teams because I think they're going to be fun to watch I think they're going to play with the style so we're all over. Yeah, we're all over because we're asking for eight more wins and I think the Brandon Miller thing is most

compelling to me. Like he I think he can play. I think it can be a two-way guy too and the contract incentive it's that plus Charles Lee. There's just a lot There's a lot of East teams, a lot of teams, period, like a lot of these teams that we're talking about

where the over-under is around 40. Like, you're going into Charlotte on a back-to-back. That's like a pain in the ass game to play. Like, man, they're going to run. Like, dunk all over the score. There's always a dangerous Celtic game these last few years. Yep. Last one.

Hey, here again. We've made it. The Washington Wizards. We did it. 20 and a half. They're 28 to 1 to make the playoffs house. If you want to put some down on that. Thank you.

They lost Brogden, Pool, Smart, Bay, and Holmes. They added McCollum in Whitmore, and they drafted Trey Johnson and got Will Raleigh as well. They have a top eight protected first that goes to the Knicks. I don't think the Knicks should expect that one. I don't think they're going to be getting that one. So one pass, one more worst four teams in the league season, and then you're good.

That's what it feels like. Yeah. And they need to win 21. games to hit their over this season, which is three games more than last season. Just a tiny over for me. I like the over for, I'm going to be class half full. Come on, be more enthusiastic. I want to hear the enthusiastic over here.

I keep watching this team. They are a bottom three offensive team and a bottom three defensive team. I just like, where's the, Tray Johnson is already doing the thing that you want, which is he's the first in the gym, he's the last out. they have to tell him to go home all of that kind that's infectious and that's what you want with a young score he for sure rookie of the year odds like like you know the cooper flag injury ads well because he and he's going to play as many minutes as his body can tolerate he's going to put up as many shots as the team is willing to tolerate there is no question that he is going to have

the combination of volume shooting and opportunity that that's two-thirds of the Third best odds, 10 to 1. Yeah. So that's a play for me for sure. Trey Johnson rookie of the year is a hard play at a tiny bit over because team Canipal 22 to 1.

Tiny bit of progress. Henry, why not? Why not? Tiny over for me for Washington. What's still in Harper? I think he's 13 to 1. Pretty good ads. What do you got, Zach?

I'm going under on the Wizards. It's fine. I just... Part of this assumes that McCollum and Middleton are going to be traded and or rested enough to not impact the offense. Fair. And I just think other than that, you are handing the basketball to a lot of inexperienced guys who are going to be facing adult experience defenses, and that tends to go badly. I am, as I said, on Zach Losho earlier this week, I'm excited about a lot of young players on this team. I just think in this particular season, I'm actually kind of surprised the line.

jump from 19 and a half to 20 and a half. I'm not sure why I did. So I'm going under on all three of Brooklyn, Utah, and Washington, which seems based on gambling history, a very stupid thing to do. No. I'm also making this one of my locks. Okay.

Which I did last year. It's fine. I just don't think Washington wants to be good. And by the way, I like the ass. They did a great job of asset collection. You talk about asset collection. I think Charlotte's done a good job, Washington. But this roster makes no sense if you actually put all these dudes

together in a basketball court. It's a bunch of wings. Nobody on the roster is a glue guy, even like McCollum. Their only glue guy is Middleton. And Middleton's, you know, at the tail end of his career. Bilal, Bali, who's a terrible

offensive player. I mean, he's really bad. Yeah. Like, I know he's exciting and he'll have a play every once in a while, but he's a bad offensive player. I'm not defending him. Marvin Bagley, the third? I would argue he's got, Yeah, Marvin Bagu 3rd.

I would argue Kluba. Who was that guy, Poku on OKC? That was a great tanking. Don't pretend like you forgot about Poku. Who was that guy, Poku? Poku. So many OKC wins. Alexander Pocashevsky.

Remember Poku started playing a lot. And I wonder with Kulibali, it would be a lot of clearouts in March and April. Don't do that. Kulibali, call on your number. I do like the assets, though. And I think there's going to be some fun. I've always wanted to see Camp Whitmore on the right team. Me too.

No, you haven't. You've never wanted, you've, you've, I like Kim Whitmore the entire time he was in the Rockets. He never played. He's going to shoot a lot of shots. Fine with them. I think if your name's Cam, you just come out firing. That's what we've learned for the basketball. So the McCollum trade will happen pretty soon.

And then Middleton. That's a big salary to trade, man. That's like what worries me a little bit about going under is that these guys just might lay around on this team for a while. Yeah. okay and be like helpful in ways that I don't want them to be helpful if I'm betting an under okay let's go through the picks cavaliers 56 and a half we all went over I'm going to to lock that one at 56 and a half

do my locks from the west carry over to my total lock total no you can do however many locks you want okay what do you mean do they carry over Well, I was told I need a minimum of six locks. I don't know if that's per conference or total. Total, total. It carries over. I've got like five already. Detroit Pistons, 56 and a half.

46 and a half. 46 and a half under for all three of us. Yeah, disappointing. Milwaukee Bucks, 42 and a half over. We already locked it down. Three locks, triple lock, triple lock. Indiana Pacers, 36 and a half. Over for me and house, under for Zach.

I really thought hard about locking that, but decided not to. WIMP. Chicago Bulls, 32 and a half. We all went over on that. Knicks, 52 and a half. Over, over,

house lock over. Lock the Knicks. Philadelphia 76ers, 42 and a half. Under. Under. And I'm going to lock my under. Just for fun.

Dangerous. Yeah. Is it dangerous, though? I wouldn't lock anything. Is it dangerous? they could put the over under at 25 and a half and I wouldn't lock. You know what? I'm going to unlock it.

Oh, you unlocked it. No lock. Lock waved. Sacks right. Just stay away from this team. Stay away. Stay away. By scratchers.

Forty two and a half. I went over. You guys went under. That was one of our big disagreements. Toronto Raptors, three overs, including a lock from Joe House. I'm going to lock the Raptors. I'm lock. See?

Look at this. Love to see it. Me and Zach on the same page. You know what? Once I lock, the lock is locked. The lock is locked. You're not going to unlock it. Nets under 19.5.

Are we all under? Yes. Yes. Well, not only am I under. This is a hardcore lock with some Vini's pizzas thrown in. El Fini. Lock for me at under 19 and a half.

I don't see any scenario where this team wins 20 games. I honestly can't. You won 26 games last year. They're going to be so bad. they're going to be like watching when you go like when your son started playing basketball and you're just watching these crazy 11 year old teams of people just running around not knowing who should have the ball so is you all right we should there should be it does the redid bill simmons page like your comparisons need to be tracked

aton has already been compared to multiple pieces of furniture the nets were compared to an 11 and under basketball team i would love like how many metaphors in this podcast wonderful stuff I felt like I've been late I feel like I could have dialed it up I mean I compared the Kings to the Hindenburg you did do that Hawks three overs oh I want to do a

lock so bad for them don't do it I'm too scarred from previous Hawks yeah it's just it's the Hawks Miami under 38 and a half for me over for you guys

Charlotte 26 and a half over over Washington 20 and a half I locked that one down as an under you went under house went over so you were light on the East Coast locks

I'm going to lock something now I'm locking Orlando over 50 and a half I feel strongly about this I like being on Orlando by myself on the over and I'm going to lock it I'm going to get super behind that one so playoff teams really quick before we go okay if you just say in the top six

Cleveland New York or Orlando Atlanta do we all feel good about those four being four of the six playoff teams yep yes Cleveland New York Orlando Atlanta would you put Milwaukee in there as the fifth playoff team I can tell you who my next two would be are Detroit and Milwaukee yeah I have Detroit and Milwaukee in there also I have Milwaukee and then Detroit okay so fine playing in Boston, Indiana, Chicago, Toronto, in some order? Boston, Indiana, Chicago, Toronto. I am kicking out Chicago.

Okay. And I am putting in Philly? The Philadelphia 76 years. Okay. That's fair. All right. Well, we just went for, what time did we start? A little before 10 o'clock.

That was a four-hour extravaganza. I'm hungry. Joe House, pleasure, always. Pleasure. Pleasure. We did it. Our first one. Great work.

Thanks to Chris. Amazing. For hanging out for multiple hours with us. Thanks to Ronick as well and Eduardo. And I'm going to be back with one more podcast. We'll do some football. I don't know if you're going to be on it. Well, maybe you'll be on it.

We just went four and one. You saw a bitch. Yeah, you're going on it. So I'll see you going on Thursday. Wow. On behalf of myself and Concanipal's family, we'll see you next time. here in the BS podcast.

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