The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Playoff Chaos, Kawhi Drama, and UConn Goes Down (Ep. 347)

Episode Date: April 2, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Kevin O’Connor to discuss the upcoming NBA playoffs (2:31), conspiracies surrounding Kawhi Leonard (5:04), and Bill’s disinterest in anything the Spurs are doing (21:03). Then, JackO comes through to discuss the Yankees, Red Sox, and more in the return of the MLB season (56:59); UConn women’s basketball losing to Notre Dame (01:11:37); and their favorite memories from this year’s NCAA men’s March Madness (01:16:10). You can find the official Ringer web store here: http://bit.ly/ringershop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We have what, nine days left? Eight days left? Yeah. What's the number one storyline for you right now, KFC? I think it's still the Western Conference. Like, who's going to get in? Who's going to get out? We still have only a couple games separating. The Clippers Nuggets they're out right now,

but they're only a game back from New Orleans, two games back from Utah. That's still the story to me. I have a counter. Does it matter? I feel like there's five good teams in the West, and I'm not sure any of these other teams. Minnesota, I guess maybe

if Butler can come back and do anything, but the Pelicans aren't doing anything, the Nuggets aren't do anything, but the Pelicans aren't doing anything. The Nuggets aren't doing anything and the Clippers aren't doing anything in the playoffs. None of those teams are beating Houston or Golden State. Minnesota is the only possible maybe upside team and I don't believe in them either. So my big storyline is definitely that that tier below Golden State, that Trailblazers, Spurs, Thunder, Jazz tier, and who's real there, and who could actually challenge a shakier Golden State. There's only three, right?

Utah, OKC, and Portland, I think, are at least going to give you a series. Minnesota's given them a hard time in the past, though, even when Steph's played. So if they get Butler back and they're really building positive momentum, maybe they're a team that can really push Golden State minus Steph. So we have five and a half teams we like? I'm going to give them a half.

You're writing off San Antonio just because no Kawhi. No Kawhi. I just don't think they have the star power. You can't like... You need a starter win a championship. They're 45 and 32, and I would argue, all right, so they're 13 games over 500.

Whatever their infrastructure slash system thing is, probably swung 15 games from this year. It's basically a 500 team that won 13 games. It won just because they're good in the regular season. They know what they're doing. That's not going to work in the playoffs. I just can't believe what a cockroach this Kawhi Leonard story is.

Like, you cannot kill this story. Every time it's been tried to be put to bed, it's now he's going back to New York, and Popovich is like his team, his team of guy. I mean, his team decides he's ready. It's just, it's amazing. We've, you and I were talking about how this never happens with the Spurs. Ever.

And yet, the Spurs have been secretly kind of dramatic over the course of the decade. But it always is managed well. Yeah, you've had the Tony Parker. The Tony Parker-Brent Barry thing was one of the weirdest things that happened all decade. Duncan's wife and all the crazy allegations when they got divorced. LaMarcus wanted to be traded. LaMarcus demanded a trade. And it's not just this decade.

Steven Jackson, they waived a week before the playoffs. They told him to get the F out. He was on the team. He was like in the rotation. What's the matter with the Spurs? A special blog boys investigation. We're the blog boys of the Spurs. I just think it's a little more tumultuous than we realize.

They're just really good at keeping everything in house. And the Kawhi story is the best example of this. This Kawhi story is insane. And if it was any other team, it would be leaks. If this everything in house. And the Kawhi story is the best example of this. This Kawhi story is insane. And if it was any other team, it would be leaks. If this happened in Cleveland, it would be leaks everywhere. Essentially refusing to play, right? Can we say that? Is that too... It seems like he is

refusing to play. Any other story, any other team, this would lead every show every day. Kevin Durant was basically medically cleared to play, was away from golden state, hanging out in New York with his, with separate team without the team doctors.

With teammates taking shots in them. With yes. And if Steph and Draymond were like, we've all usually, we, we've rehabbed, we have the best doctors, my ankle injury,

my ankle injury, et cetera. It is, it is wild. I have obviously a ton of respect and belief in the Spurs infrastructure, like you're saying. And I also cannot wait for a possible Spurs-Rockets matchup. Oh, my God. Well, you know, Kawhi was the number two MVP and the number three MVP.

So there's two years where he was the top three player in the league. And now he's just completely wiped out. And I don't know, the history of guys losing a whole year like this and then coming back and being exactly what they were is pretty mixed. Well, and even this year in the nine or so games that he played, he wasn't Kawhi, Kawhi. No, he seemed slow. Yeah, but he wasn't like Memphis Rudy Gay.

I mean, he was just pretty good. He was still good. There's like six or seven guys that are just at the top level. Yeah. And he was in there and it didn't seem like he was close to that level from what we saw, but obviously he wasn't feeling great. But when I watch Paul George on OKC sometimes when he's really feeling it and he's on both ends,

like a maniac, that's what Kawhi used to do. We might not see that again. I hope we do. Whether it's with San Antonio or somebody else. I hope we do. What are your conspiracy? Do you have any conspiracy theories for this?

So at the beginning of the season, my conspiracy was that they were going to use this excuse as a way to arrest Kawhi whenever he came back with the new rest rules, not allowed to arrest players. But that obviously was silly. Not the case. At this point, I do think Kawhi perhaps might have some internal, some people in his circle that might want him elsewhere. Whether that happens, who knows. It's almost like an embarrassment of riches for the Lakers with those two salary caps. Well, what I don't understand is

five guys available for two spots. The timing of it is there's nothing Kawhi can really do to not get that super max from San Antonio. Would you give him that though at this point? Absolutely. Yeah.

Yes. He's a top five player. Absolutely. I think he would be very scared. You're kidding me. Are you? I really would. I would be scared from if I'm San Antonio.

I'm not saying if I'm another team. I'm saying if I'm San Antonio and I watched this guy handle his business the way he did for an entire season and seemed like he didn't want to be part of the team. Why, why do I want to give you $240 million? So the counter to that is that by all accounts, when LaMarcus went to Pop and say, I don't think I fit in here. I want to be traded. Popovich was like, I don't, I can't, there's nothing I can get in return for you. That would be of equal value. So we're going to have to make it work. So what was he, what'd he say to Kawhi? And do you really think that RC Buford and Greg Popovich are going to bend to

Kawhi's inner circle or Jumpman or whatever it is that's influencing all of that? What are they going to do? Just be like, you can sit. Here's the thing. Aldridge at the time had four years left on his deal. Kawhi, free agent in 2019. That's the difference. I think the Aldridge thing

is completely different because the real reason they didn't trade Aldridge was because there was no market for him what were they getting? actually the deal came after so it wasn't four years left it was one year left they re-upped him

so actually that was incorrect what I just said just making sure but the reality was they didn't have a trade for him. Yeah. He was available in June. Nobody wanted him. Yeah, and he's like, I'm not trading you to Phoenix for a bunch of garbage.

He's like, no thanks. I'm not getting Marquise Chris and Jared Dudley's contract. Because look at LaMarcus Aldridge this year. He's probably a top 10, top 15 player this year. But this collapse situation is different. Because if they could get, put it this way, Belichick would trade him. And I think the Spurs are the most wired like the Belichick Pats. Belichick would look at this and go, you don't want to be here?

Fuck you. I'll get Brandon Ingram and I'll have more cap space and I'll be able to sign somebody else. I wonder if the better analogy would be the Packers and the Packers aren't trading Aaron Rodgers. You know, it's like that's. the Packers aren't trading Aaron Rodgers. You know, it's like, that's, I don't think he's Aaron Rodgers. I, are we, are we,

are we on the same planet right now? Aaron Rodgers was one of the best four quarterbacks of all time. Kawhi Leonard has been a top three player twice. I think Kawhi Leonard can be Russell Westbrook on offense and then he can be Paul George on defense. He's just missed the whole season. I know that. I'm not saying that.

You have no idea what's wrong with him. He's got a quad injury that he's obviously like, not like not sure it seems like more of an injury than just a quad injury it looks like a fundamental physical issue not playing for 70 games okay yeah the thing this this is a quad injury that two years ago tom harbester wrote a great article on espn about how the spurs had to solve this weird little quad issue that he had at the beginning of the 2014-15 season. So you're saying this is a four-year deal? Yeah, it's not something that just started this year. He had quad pain last year.

Two years ago, it was solved. So it's not something that just popped up. It's something that he's had at least for four years now. So will it go away will it go better we really don't know and maybe that's why kawaii is in a spot where he's like you know what i can't play because i can't risk getting hurt again now maybe he needs to take take a step back and get 100 healthy not just 90 maybe he wants to get rid of the problem entirely well can he who knows you know if i'm popovich the only person i'm picking up the phone for for kawaii is anthony davis and that's that's

it so you you wouldn't trade him for like more more so assets salary like i don't think popovich is in the i think the whole reason they have lamarcus and the whole reason popovich is is still there is because this is the window the window is the kawaii lamarcus. I think that with our coaching, we can match up with anybody. We can take out Houston. We can give Golden State problems. I don't think you're going to get that, though. I think it's a different. So I didn't think the Cavs should have traded Kyrie.

I thought they should just wrote it out and waited. But the reasons were different on that because they had LeBron James, who was still one of the best two or three players in the league, and they had a chance to win a title, and it was too risky to trade Kyrie because the whole point is to win the title. I don't think the Spurs can win a title with what they have. I think they're just, at least even if Kawhi was 1,000% healthy, I still think they're a level below Houston and Golden State.

And if Kawhi can leave in a year and he's this unhappy and he rejected that Jordan brand contract, which I think is another really interesting piece of this, that whether it's his inner circle, whether it's him, who knows, but he obviously feels like he's not as famous as some of his other guys and it bugs him. And he wants to get paid top dollar. He wants to get paid and he wants to be more, and it seems like he wants to be more recognizable which is i think weird for us to understand because he didn't seem like a guy who ever gave a shit about any of that yeah i mean this quiet guy who did nothing and then the whole point of him was like we sort of robbed him of his kind of like soul because it was just like a guy built in a lab to play for the spurs but obviously he does care about some of that stuff

and i think that's a piece of this and maybe he doesn't want to be like oh you're just popovich's a guy built in a lab to play for the Spurs. But obviously he does care about some of that stuff. And I think that's a piece of this. And maybe he doesn't want to be like, oh, you're just Popovich's robot like Duncan was. And that's the thing, right? So that report, I forget you reported a couple months ago, but he wanted to be paid top dollar by a shoe company, but it seems like they didn't want to pay him that. The reason why they wouldn't want to

is because he's in San Antonio. He doesn't transcend that market like Russell Westbrook does in OKC, like LeBron James does no matter where he is. So maybe if you're Kawhi and his team, you're like, we need him in a big market city where he can get paid top dollar and get top level exposure. Whereas in San Antonio, he's in LA. Probably LA, yeah. And I think if you look at somebody like Paul George, who is the sidekick for Russell Westbrook. And Russell Westbrook's been awesome since the All-Star break. He went from somebody that I thought potentially could not make the

All-NBA team to I think he's second team easily. But if you're Paul George, you go to the Lakers, and you're now the face of the Lakers. You're at a different level with everything. You're a different level of stardom. You're a different level with endorsements. You're kind of become the guy. Are you on a good team, though?

Well, but I wonder with that stuff. Well, if you're Paul George, you're thinking like, I'm going to the Lakers. They'll figure it out. They have their top three market, and they have all these young guys, and we'll be really good. They'll be good pretty soon. But if I'm Kawhi, I'm like, I already won a title. I think that's another thing we forget about.

This stuff. And I think that was a big part of the Kyrie thing. He already won a title. So you think once you win a title, you're playing with house money? I think they think about it a little differently. It doesn't really matter because if they don't win the title, then it's torture. I'm tortured by the fact that I haven't gotten the chip yet. So I have to go somewhere where that's possible. But I do think it's a little liberated. People then it's torture. I'm tortured by the fact that I haven't gotten the chip yet. So I have to go somewhere where that's possible.

I mean, I do think it's a little liberating. People like to move around. I think it just engages a different part of your brain when you, when you put yourself out there onto an open market. What the Celtics people have told me about Kyrie is that they're surprised. He was able to be a sidekick for LeBron for that long. Cause they were like,

this guy's a complete alpha. He's they said, he's like exactly like what KG was like. Kyrie's talked a lot about that. I remember in the playoffs I think it was last year

maybe the year before with Cleveland he talked about the sacrifice that him and LeBron had to go to you know putting their egos aside. Right.

And it was like who the fuck are you? You're 24 but now it makes more sense and you were on a terrible Cavs team until LeBron came along and saved your career.

It'll be like when you start your own site and people will be like I can't believe Chris and Bill co-existed for that long I know when Chris.com pops off I know Barstool Chris Philly sports guy

Philly sports guy but anyway to go back to the West the matchups are really fun right now and I think they're probably going to stay the way they are I mean Houston's a wash but Houston is going to crush anybody. That one's going to be a four game sweep. The only

hope anyone has is that they're so bored right now and they've clinched everything. You can get a little flimsy down the stretch. You can lose your pizzazz a little bit. Dan and Tony talked a little about that. That's why he was like, I don't want to have a rested team

that's out of rhythm going into the playoffs. You can't have a rested team that's not playing good. I think that was the line. It's like, well, yeah, you also want to be good, so you might want to rest a little bit. I think Golden State round one with no Curry, talent-wise, nobody should touch them. There's so much going on with that team.

Like Durant comes back on Thursday and gets thrown out of his first game. There's like this bubbling kind of anger with that team that they can't really seem to harness. I love it. It's good. But I think like the right team can really like kind of get to them and they can get Draymond thrown out of a game.

Sure. But that was the case when they were winning 73 games a year too. But they're not the same team anymore. I completely appreciate everything that you're saying about them. The exhaustion that they must be feeling mentally. I don't think they have as good of a bench team. They're fed up with everything. Just get us to round three.

But that could also be the chip on your shoulder. I feel like we're speaking really in mental toughness cliches or whatever, but I do think that they are really pissed. I think that they, as we heard from your podcast, read everything about them. They've been reading about Houston all year. I think they're ready to bring it. Well, I don't think Minnesota

is... You think you're more optimistic. What if Butler gets back? Does that change the equation? Let's say he's 90%. I just don't like their team enough. I don't either. I think Utah would be a problem. I also think they would beat Utah. For sure.

But I think Utah would be a problem. They would actually have to win that series. Golden State's had a hard time with Towns in the past, though. He's one of the few guys that's been better. Yeah, he's been awesome. Yeah. I don't know. I think Minnesota could give Golden State some trouble.

They wouldn't beat them. But without Curry, I certainly think Towns would be a load to handle. I think still maybe five, six games, maybe. The thing with Minnesota is, and Utah has the same problem to some degree,

guys who have just never been in a series like that. Yeah, right. I don't trust Wiggins at all. And I think he's taken a lot of shit this season, rightly so. And then you're putting him in that series.

And, you know, it's a recipe for disaster. Towns has been, really seems like he's gone up a level since the All-Star game. Third year in a row. Maybe confidence. Yeah. Yeah, confidence and usage. I mean, as soon as Jimmy goes out, Towns starts getting upwards of 20 shots a game. And it really starts to open up for him. Even that still feels like there's more,

there's still more that he can give if he's, if he's fed off, fed the opportunity. So they're, they're plus two for the year, which I don't like. They're five and five in their last 10, which I don't like.

They're 16 and 23 on the road, which I really don't like. I don't like teams that don't win on the road. That's the Celtics aren't going to make the finals this year, but I think the craziest thing about the Celtics is they're 29-10 on the road, which is just nuts. They're actually, in some ways, it's a disadvantage

for them to be at home. They love being on the road. That's Spursian. That's like, we're ready to play every night. But I think Utah, the thing with them is just how much they rely on Mitchell and just relying on a rookie like that in the playoffs. It's a recipe for disaster. Can we talk about how excited we are for Gobert Nurkic in the first round?

Well, but that's the thing is this stuff could change tonight. I know, but if you want to say, if you're saying that this is- Gobert Nurkic would be good. Would be such a good, fun first round. See those guys stuck with each other in the paint for four or five games. I was still someone's getting clotheslined. I'm rooting. And right now, like OKC is a half game up

on Utah. But my dream scenario is Portland OKC three six. Yeah, that would also be another incredible first round. The best series of the playoffs hands down to incredible arenas to in terms of the crowd there. That would be like two soccer moms it is.

Yeah, it's the only thing. How could you guys not want Golden State, Oklahoma City though? In the first round, follow a Warriors team Because that takes, I feel like that takes Oklahoma City,

whether you like them or not, is like one of the more interesting teams. I kind of want them to be in the mix for a little while longer beyond that. To get to a round two.

So you want round two Golden State State Oklahoma City with Steph maybe back mid-series. And Russ being like, I'm still better than him. Yeah. So if that's our 3-6, either team Golden State plays in round two is a great series.

Yeah, no doubt. Because Golden State Portland would be awesome too, especially if Curry doesn't come back in time for it. They'd be in a lot of trouble in that series. versus Clay without Steph as his partner with Quinn Cook. Yeah, that would be pretty fun. I'm a believer in Portland, which I've been saying for a while. I don't think they could beat Golden State,

but I do think that could be a seven-game classic. Yeah. And they could definitely make the Warriors sweat and stuff. The Spurs are just the turd in the punch bowl for me in this. I'm sorry. I respect the Spurs. I the turd in the punch bowl for me in this. I'm sorry. I respect the Spurs. I thought what they did in 2014 was incredible. I just don't want to watch them in a playoff series.

Like, oh, great. Good pick and roll with Kyle Anderson. Just not interested. LaMarcus Aldridge, yeah, throwing it down to LaMarcus. The Spurs rhetoric from you today is really strong. I just don't enjoy watching them. I'm sorry. I hope Shea Serrano's not listening.

We're going to take a break. We'll be right back. KOC, let's quickly talk about tonight's national championship game and our favorite draft prospects. Hey, Google, set a timer for two minutes. Here we go. All right. Two minutes starting now. All right. Draft prospects tonight. Favorite. Got Mikhail Bridges on Villanova. Only lottery pick in the tights games.

Two-way player. 3 and D guy. Maybe capable of a little bit more once he develops his ball handling ability. I love this guy. And I think he's going to go four spots too late in the draft. And he's going to come in and he's like the absolute perfect 3 and D guy. Athletic. I could see him on 15 teams.

He could actually come into the playoffs right now and probably play for like nine of the playoff teams. And then Nova has another guy too, though, that you could also play immediately in today's league. And this is why there's a big favorite tonight with Jalen Brunson. I know you're a fan of him. Just knows how to play the game. Really beefy point guard, can shoot threes, can post them up. He's an exciting late first

round pick or maybe early second for nova yeah he's got one of those old school pickup games where sometimes he'll like put the guy in his hip and take him to the foul line and do like that herky jerky stuff and like he came out of the 80s which is funny because his dad was rick brunson who played for the celtics there's some mark jackson it's almost like he taught rick brunson taught him like 90s point guard play who else do we we have? And then on Michigan, you got Mo Wagner, power forward slash center. Three point shooter needs to get better defensively, but he plays with energy that's contagious. I think if he has a big game shooting the ball and taking advantage of mismatches down low, I think Michigan has a shot, but Wagner needs to

be at his best. Any second rounders that we like? Yeah, I think a second rounder maybe slips into the late first round, but more likely a second round prospect if he declares. Who is the biggest draft prospect stock winner out of this whole tournament? It might be Brunson. In my opinion, I think he went from a second round guy to, in my opinion, a guy who should be

in the first round conversation. So I think Brunson's play has just been outstanding. Remember I texted you? I barely watch any college basketball and I just did the five minute Malcolm Godwin blink test and I'm like, who's this dude on West Virginia, the point guard? He's good. Who's that dude?

Why isn't Brunson a first rounder? I don't understand. And I remember saying to you, yeah, you know, he's a junior. He doesn't do this, doesn't do that, but he's done it all in the March Madness for Villanova. Hey, Google, stop timer. We're done. Hey Google, stop timer. We're done.

Alright, we're back with Chris and KLC. Alright, we're going to the East. The East right now. Oh shit, Miami and Milwaukee switched. Yesterday the East was in a position where I loved every single series. And you thought maybe there would be an upset in every single series, right? I just thought the thought maybe there would be an upset in every single series. I just thought the case could be made.

Yeah. I agree with you. Indiana plays Philly really well. Washington, I don't think could beat Cleveland, but they play them really well and they're a nice matchup and they do some things. Their backcourt is so much better than Cleveland's backcourt. And they do have guys to at least throw at LeBron to make them work a little

bit. And I don't know, they could at least hang with them. Celtics, Miami. Also, the Cavs are still having to work to beat Mavs teams, even though we're in April. I'll tell you that the confidence

of the Cavs fans is really fascinating. It's like, we do this every year. We have LeBron. You do not do this every year, just as somebody who's been watching you guys really closely for the last five years. You guys are terrible defensively. Like really like historically bad.

They do have LeBron though. And they have LeBron. They're right about that. And the case now is like, we'll just outscore everybody. That's never worked for four straight rounds in the playoffs in the history of the league. It's like, okay, you guys want to be Doug Moe Denver? It's good luck. Great.

We've seen that before. But Philly, Indiana would be great. Toronto versus Miami, which now isn't gonna it wouldn't happen if the season ended today because miami's seven but uh toronto miami have had really good games this year and it's a it's a weirdly similar teams that uh am i crazy that miami could beat toronto in a series i mean toronto slipped a little bit they haven't been the same for maybe three three three and a half weeks now or so. Look, I'd still take

Toronto in that series. Of course. I think you would take all the favorites in all these series, but at our defense. Miami's bringing a really good coach with a lot of experience, and they have so many different combinations that they can throw at you. It's such a weird team. It's so hard to play in a series, and it's like, oh, a Linux hot. We'll just ride him.

How do you prepare for that? How do you prepare for just like there's like a random bam at a bio dunk that sends the place into hysterics and Gorin gets hot or James Johnson gets hot or Wayne Ellington gets hot or Kelly Olenek is just keeping it and driving and dunking. Dwayne Maynard will have one game

and that's the good thing like you said Chris they can play different styles they can play big with Whiteside or Olenek. If Whiteside chooses to play, yes. They can put Olenek at the five and space the floor, or they can go super small with James Johnson and Justice Winslow as their four and five. They can take on different styles, set a tone.

It's a murderous team. It's going to make them a tough out in the playoffs. How much do you like Bam? I like Bam. I think he's headed for Mitch Kupchak giving him an $80 million contract in three years. And Mitch Kupchak's running the Hornets. So I have some ideas. We'll get Bam.

Bam looks like he's been carving things into mountains. That guy is so built. Charlotte, I heard at the draft, but before the draft, Charlotte was looking at Mitchell and Bam. But they ended up going with Malik Monk. I'm trading for Malik right now if I'm one of the champs. The Celtics, I really wanted them to play Milwaukee, even though Milwaukee is somebody that's played them well because after going in person to that Clippers-Bucks game

and seeing just how disorganized Milwaukee was, I was like, that's a team I want to put in the playoff series. And all their fans feel the same way. I tweeted last night about how they basically had the anti Brad Stevens as their coaches this year. I almost think that it would be worth it for them to fire their interim coach.

Joe, what's his name? Joe Brunty. Joe Brunty. This is a running bit on various shows is that nobody knows this guy's name. When you watch, when you go to the game, he's just standing there. It looks like the, like he's like the caretaker,

but I almost wonder if- I'm Mr. Prunty, I'm teaching chemistry today. Let's have some fun, guys. Chemistry can be fun. Giannis, I've heard you're great. I almost wonder if they're better off just firing him and hiring David Fisdale for like three weeks. Just like a three week deal.

What would happen if Milwaukee hired Patino for the playoffs? Oh, God. That would make it worse. Here's the thing. The coach wasn't the problem. It's the roster. It's the way the pieces fit together. I mean, the coach matters,

but I think the team needs a little bit of a shakeup to improve their personnel and the way they all fit together. But it's one of those teams, though, that they're running a play that ends up with like Brandon Jannings isolated against DeAndre Jordan and then he can't do anything. Jason Terry is still playing crunch time point card minutes. Jason Terry started.

Yeah. I couldn't believe it. But what if they paid Fizdale like $150,000 a week for as long as the Bucs lasted? Just like, hey, just come in for three weeks. So the intention of keeping him next season? No, Just like, Hey, just come in for three weeks. So the intention of keeping him next season, just be like,

just come on in for three weeks. We're hiring you as a temp for three weeks. Why are we confident though, that a coach is going to fix this roster right now? I, cause I thought if they, if they do things like give the body, Yadis play the right players,

don't start Jason Terry. Right. It would help. It seems like very simple stuff. It would help. But I do simple stuff. It would help, but I do think the roster needs some changes. Yeah.

Well, it's clear that Jabari is not long for that world. And I'm sure he's mortified by how this all played out, right? It's an odd fit with him and Giannis. It feels like it should work, but it just doesn't. He's pressing too.

It kind of sucks. He was so bad the other night. You know, they told me at the Clipper game that after that 60 minutes piece, they had 1400 tickets sold in the 36 hours after that 60 minutes piece for the Clippers game. Wow. Like 22 million people saw it. Giannis went to this whole other level of fame, right? Yeah.

And there's poor Jabari who who was kind of the guy. Mm-hmm. But I got to throw out a team for him. You sitting down, Casey? Thank God you're sitting down. I'm ready. The Utah Jazz. Be nice.

Mormon? Yeah. They'd love him? That could be, they could sign and trade him this summer, I think. Yeah. If they wanted to. Or he could just do whatever. But anyway, I think. Yeah. If they wanted to, or he could just do whatever. But anyway, I would want to play them.

And I think whoever gets Milwaukee in round one as great as Giannis is, he's a year away. Yeah. A year away and a coach away. Seen him a couple times now in person this year. He's just incredible. I mean, he had five blocks in the first half of the Clipper game I went to,

but he doesn't totally know what to do yet. Like they put Thornwell on him. He doesn't totally know what to do yet. Like they, they put a Thornwell on him. He doesn't totally know how to post up. He doesn't know really how to demand the ball all the time and all that stuff. Philly, Indiana. You're a little scared of Indiana, Chris Ryan. Yeah.

I'm spooked on like a macro narrative level, because I think that a first round loss to Boston, Toronto or Cleveland is like a dignified death, but losing to Indiana would be like the entire season, loss to Boston, Toronto, or Cleveland is like a dignified death. But losing to Indiana would be like the entire season, especially here. We've been paying way more attention to Philly than Indiana, even though Indiana's had this incredibly

successful season, given what people expected from them. And to kind of get taken out by them would be like, you were never real this whole time. Well, they've won 10 straight. Peaking too early. They ruined my over-under bet, which was entirely made on Embiid.

It was like, there's no way Embiid plays 50 games. Have you gone back to our dinner bet yet? Have you gone back to- What was our dinner bet? I think it was over-under eight games for Fultz, and I'm going to go over, I think. Oh, so I owe you dinner. Yes.

I'll take you to Major Domo. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, the Fultz thing came out of nowhere. He looks like an NBA player. Really fast and athletic. Yeah, he's really good. He's really good. I don't know why teams aren't playing five feet off him.

I mean, we saw a little bit of that. Do you think that the combination of Simmons and Fultz in a game, not together, but just in general, just like breaks defenses a little bit? Because they're just like, I don't, how did Simmons score? It was like had 25 on like 10 for 12 shooting the other night. Like, yeah. Simmons is having these box scores that Jason Kidd used to have in the

1990s where he has like five points, 13 rebounds and 15 assists. But it's not a triple double, but it should, there should be its own word for it. I don't know what it is. Simmons, to me, is the great X factor of the entire Eastern Conference. What I've seen from him over the last two months, the rookie of the year, I didn't want to talk about it, the confidence that he's playing with now.

So much voice. He looks like a 29-year-old, like a lot of australian in him which and i mean that in a positive way like he's just a badass he's not afraid of anybody he's super aggro he's always moving at the speed he wants to move and uh i i just think he's been awesome to watch he really knows he knows exactly what he can do and he can't do he never goes out of his comfort zone ever and he's really fucking fun to play with. Like he's a good passer who gets the ball in the right spots, the right people.

He's constantly in control. It feels like anytime the ball is in his hands, it feels like the right play is about to happen. It feels like kid too, where with kid, it was, I, did you ever see kid turn it over?

Did you ever see kid make a really bad pass? It was, there was always these good passes, especially in that, peak of of that nets period where you just felt like oh he's got the ball like nothing bad is gonna happen here the difference is last three minutes when it really slows down and the d goes up kid it took him a while to figure it out and it really wasn't until he was on the nets where it's just like i like, I'm going to get us a shot, guys. I have not seen that with Ben Simmons, and I don't think we're going to see it for two, three years,

and I honestly don't think it matters either. I don't think for him to be like the, I got this, I'll create us a shot, you're talking 2020, 2021, before he figures that part out, and that'll be the last piece for him, and that'll be the difference between he's probably somewhere between the 14 and 20th best player in the league right now yeah i don't think he's gonna make all nba but i would put him in that group but for him to be like a top three top four type guy that'll be the last for sure i mean he needs to be at least a threat to shoot i think we saw what we talked about this on a pod before where young lebron even had games where he was limited when

teams forced him into being a shooter simmons is going to have that same issue in the playoffs whether it's against indiana or somebody in the later rounds we're gonna see that where it's like he's just not there yet but he has everything else like he checks every single box he's incredible jump shot and i think he's getting better defensively too. The thing I think he can learn, and he might even be able to learn it on the fly here these next couple weeks, there's a couple spots he can score from. And he's got to figure out during games like, oh, I'm just going to go to that spot, get me the ball.

I know I can do that. And there's like three things he knows he can do, and that'll really help them. I was kind of cynical about the Bellinelli and Ilioso additions but you can tell he thrives he really thrives playing with veteran players because there was a few times with tlc or some of the younger guys where simmons was clearly thinking about the game on a level that they hadn't figured out yet yeah where the passes were coming from where he's firing balls into people's shooting motions. This is passing on a really, really advanced level. You can watch a game.

If you have time, just watch a Sixers game and just watch his passing. And I think that some of the veteran guys are able to compliment that level of passing in a way that some of the younger kids are still learning about. Those were great signings. I don't love the buyout rule. still learning about. Those were great signings that.

I don't love the buyout rule. It's just, it's a very strange rule to me. I don't think it seems like it's not cheating because it's legal. It's just, it's really weird to me that you can just cut Bellinelli and Ilazova and they end up on a playoff team and we see it every year and there's always like four or five guys. It's really helped the Sixers. And it's weird that they didn't have to give up anything for it,

I guess is my point. What's the alternative? No, there's nothing. It's just great. And that's part of like you build a good team and then you want to be able to get somebody like Belnaud and be like, I want to play for you guys. But it's just a weird rule.

No other sport really works like that. I think it's rounded at their team. They've actually been able to extend their lead sometimes. Yeah, and now they have actual depth and they have two identities. One's this veteran savvy team and the other one is this. The big thing also is that, especially in the last couple weeks before he got injured, one of the things that I thought was almost revolutionary about what they were doing was that all this stuff

with this inside out game with Embiid and Simmons but with Simmons playing inside yeah and Embiid being at the top of the key and I used to just sort of be horrified by Embiid holding the ball at the top of the key for seven seconds that was the only part of his game that I was kind of like please just you you are the most dominating inside presence in the last 10 years can you please just go down low and it but now it almost seems to be working to their advantage because teams are like, what do we do here? How do you switch and beat in some ways? It's too weird.

It's too out of the blue. The guys that were clearly guys who should be in a playoff rotation, and it worked out for two of them, were Bellinelli and Brewer. Oh, yeah, both. Tyreek Evans was the other one, and they stupidly didn't trade him more, and they didn't waive him either. But Brewer is somebody like we've seen him do it before and for what OKC had going, a dramatic improvement.

We should talk about the Celtics really quickly, not because they're my favorite team, but I'm just amazed that they're still in this thing for the one seed where they've basically gotten 60 games combined out of Kyrie and Hayward the Stevens coach of the year thing is done I don't I don't see how anybody could argue anything else the the fascinating things that have happened you think Brad over Quinn oh yeah if it just take the top two players off any playoff team in the league and get 60 games out of them instead of 160. Like that's, they've lost over a hundred games from their top two guys.

Tatum has gone up a level. He had the, he's had the classic rookie season, like almost like you could have done the formula for it. First two great months, Swoon, Rookie Wall. Now it's like he's really starting at his feet. And then the Marcus Morris trade, which was the third best trade Dainey made last summer. Marcus Morris for Avery Bradley was like a heist. Avery Bradley's been hurt all year.

He's going to leave. And then the Shane Larkin. And just like there's this grittiness with this team that if they can survive round one and bring Kyrie back into this, they're going to be a tough out. To your point about Tatum, it's not like that. He's just getting more shots. He's not just catching and shooting more without Kyrie. He's running more pick and roll. They're putting him through more dribble handoffs, more stuff off screens.

He's part of the fabric of their offense now, and he hasn't lost any shooting efficiency or anything. What's up with the rookie wall? It doesn't seem like it was as big of a factor this year. Yeah, for any of the guys, really. It was for Tatum. He talked about it, too. Yeah? Yeah. I think... But it seems like the guy that there's been a little bit of a bounce for a couple

of these guys in the last 20, 30 games. That seems to be what happened. These are some good rookies, though, too. Yeah. I mean, it's an unusual... This is a great class. I really enjoyed this class. I think what happened with Tatum, there was so much pressure the first, because they had that streak. So all of a sudden it was like,

they're playing a playoff game. There was like a little like seven game stretcher. It was like every game was a playoff game basically. And I do think it wore out him and Jalen Brown to some degree, but the sophistication with how they use Tatum now, I was really frustrated just as a fan of the team. Like, why doesn't Tatum get more shots?

Why don't we use him more? And obviously Stevens was really carefully easing him toward where this was going. I think to win 56, 57, 58, wherever they end with everything that's happened this year is lunacy. I don't understand it. I think before the season, you would have been quite happy with that, had Hayward and Irving been healthy the entire season.

It makes no sense. And then you look at the getting rid of Bradley, Crowder, Isaiah, which they've obviously sold high at the perfect time on those three. And it seemed ruthless at the perfect time on those three. And it seemed ruthless at the time and it still does. But man, you mentioned Toronto. What was that game? We were talking on the phone the other day.

They had that one game that they blew in the refs. They had a streak on. Was it OKC? I believe it was OKC, right? And they were mad at the refs. And then it seems like they lost momentum. There was about a 10-day stretch there where everybody was like toronto it's gonna happen this year this is a different team i believe in these guys yeah they lost that okc game 132 125 they lost that and then they lost

that wednesday cleveland cleveland which i think was a really pivotal point in their season because it was like they lay the smack down they put up I think 79 in the first half or some crazy number blowing Cleveland out. LeBron came back. It became clear that, Oh yeah, this is, we can't beat LeBron. We've never been able to stop him ever.

And now it feels like the whole balance of the conference has swung again. Cleveland's favored to win the East again. And it was all really because of that game. If Toronto won that game, we wouldn't even have the conversation. That was the game when Cavs fans were like, you know what? We can't outscore teams. We have LeBron. Don't worry about it. We're good. Because Toronto in that first half,

they still gave up a lot of points, too. Their defense... Their defense has not been as good. Three weeks now, they've really been struggling on that end of the floor, and their offense hasn't been quite as good. What do you describe that to? Has there been some injury that there was, or has it just been like wear and tear over the floor and their offense. What do you describe that to? Has there been some injury that there was, or, or has it just been like wear and tear over the course of a long season? Part of me wonders if it's fatigue.

They're just making little, little weird mistakes that they didn't have before. And I also wonder how much of it is teams are just exposing some of their weaknesses a little bit more as the season wears on like Valanchunas is better, but he's still not a great rim protector, right? They,

their perimeter defense isn't that great and then you're thinking about a matchup against cleveland potentially in the playoffs they have nobody you think valentunas is going to play that much and say in a series against cleveland here's the tough part like he their offense is better with him yeah because he's so good at just running plays setting screens and he's been shooting a couple of threes so he can at least space a little bit for the team whereas purdle better defender but he's not doesn't make the quite the same impact on offense right see akam nobody worries about him on on offense you don't need to really defend him at all and they can't really play they have a they have a who's our best five problem that

during the regular season doesn't matter yeah but in a playoff series, it matters. At some point, you have to know who your best five is. You were about to say, I'm mind reading you, that they didn't have anybody to guard LeBron, but nobody does. Now here's the thing. Nobody has anybody to guard LeBron.

But you have guys that can at least slow him down and make him work. The Celtics have guys to throw at him. They have Morris, they have Jason Tatum, and most importantly, Jalen Brown. And you just throw guys at him. LeBron's still going to get his points. Right, you're not worried about him. It's not going to be easy.

Toronto doesn't have anybody that they can throw at him. But all those guys you listed, when they're on the floor, they don't hurt you offensively. Siakam and OG and Inobi. OG's shooting the ball pretty well over the course of the full season 36 from three but he's been really poor lately and teams aren't worried about him i mean even though his percentages are fine you're not worried about og spotting up siakam don't need to defend him so they don't have a guy that at least keeps you afloat so i guess the question would be more than i mean because i think

that depth has been such a huge part about various teams success over the last couple of seasons, the regular season. But still, inevitably, there's going to be this rotation shortening that happens. We're not going to see 11 guys on Toronto playing double digit minutes. So who's going to fall out of the rotation? And is the fact that even tomorrow at the top is only playing like 34 minutes, averaging 34 minutes a game. Whereas Cleveland's been so top heavy all season long, playing their guys so many extensive minutes and have been with the exception of LeBron, really injury prone.

I don't know. I still, I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I'm pretty high on Toronto. I don't think that this is, this is fake. I don't think that this season they're having is like an illusion. I'm concerned. I am too.

I just, I'm concerned for them in the Cleveland matchup because I just think it's like a big brother, little brother thing. And, you know, it's weird. Like they really rely on Van Vliet. He's out there in big moments for them. This is somebody that, you know, it almost seems like they're most comfortable playing three guard. I'm sure they are.

Yeah. I don't think it's going to work against Cleveland. Well, that's the tough part is putting the right pieces the right the right personnel on the floor that manages to at least contain lebron as well as you can hope to contain lebron versus maintaining your offensive prowess so it's the type of thing where casey needs to find the right balanced lineup that he can lean on in those moments when they just need to be at their absolute best. And I don't know.

I mean, let me, let me throw this team at you. John Wall, who Joe House, I talked to yesterday. He was all excited. Cause John Wally said he's 15 pounds skinnier.

He said, we don't have fat John Wall anymore. I think he did this whole riff on ringer NBA, but the wall bill combo, being able to throw porter into uber at lebron at least like slow him down a tiny bit and morris yeah and morris who has been up and down this year but i think that's a tough series for them i don't i don't think they're gonna beat cleveland but i i think it's conceivable and i certainly don't trust cleveland 100 dependent

on what happened what John Wall we get and how he fits within a Cleveland team that's been more successful by moving the ball could you make the case that the Wizards learning how to survive without John Wall was actually the only way that this team could go up a level because now

it's like we kind of learned how to rely on Biel a little bit more and do some stuff. Yeah, you find out that Sadoransky's a real NBA player. Otto Porter took a little bit of a mini leap during the season as well. I don't know how to fit into everything they kind of built for better and worse versus like, it's my show, I'm going to shoot 26 times.

But you're not saying that Washington has a better shot against Cleveland than Toronto does, are you? No, but I'd rather catch Cleveland in round one than round three. But you're not saying that Washington has a better shot against Cleveland than Toronto does, are you? No. But I'd rather catch Cleveland in round one than round three. And throw them like a guy they haven't seen in a couple months in wall. So what's the status of Davis? Here's the other thing with Cleveland. They have dudes in that series who have never been in a big game before.

Other than Rodney Hood, who disappeared in that Quipper series. And I don't trust Rodney Hood whatsoever. Clarkson's never been in a big game. Larry Nance hasn't been in a big game before, other than Rodney Hood, who disappeared in that Quipper series. And I don't trust Rodney Hood whatsoever. Clarkson's never been in a big game. Larry Nance has been in a big game. I want to take my swings at them in round one. Round three, they're comfortable. They get their feet wet. They've been in some big spotlight games.

I think to your point about Washington, they match up better on paper with their roster, but you'd still take Toronto because of the sheer talent level. Oh, man. Yeah, I guess. I just don't know who guards LeBron for them. I don't know what they do. I appreciate what the Wizards have managed to pull off without Wall,

but I think the fact that we're talking about this is crazy. Toronto has been awesome this year. I'm with you. I just think LeBron goes into a Toronto series like, I got this. They have nobody who can guard me. I'm beating them. Yeah. Okay. But I don't think he's shook going up against Sadoransky and Kelly LeBray.

But at least he's like, oh, they have Otto Porter. Okay. Think about that guy for a split second. He's like, oh no, there's Siakam. He's like, there's Siakam? He's like like there's DeMar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry he's fine he's been beating those guys for five years

so you don't have any of like the this is the bogey team that this Toronto core has to get over they're going to slay the dragon and move forward because we've talked about this before about how we have kind of like a short we have short vision when it comes to how we have kind of like a short, we have short vision when it comes to teams now where we're like,

oh, your window is so small. But Toronto's following a fairly typical NBA trajectory of taking their lumps for a couple of years. And now this is the, this is the time. They, they are, but they aren't. Cause DeRozan under no scenarios in the top level of players in the league. He's on the next level. Okay. I think there's seven guys that matter. And then we players in the league. He's on the next level. Okay. I think there's seven guys that matter.

And then we go to the next level and he's on that level. Right. Seven or eight, whatever we want to say. The history of the final says it's really hard to make the finals unless you have guys in that top group. So the way to sneak in is if it's like an oh four Pistons type situation where just perfect circumstances, for sure, weaker league,

and you catch a team at the right time. All of a sudden you win the title. And I thought there was a chance that Toronto could be that team because of their defense. Also correct. Like the thing about that, the backcourt familiarity and also the East was a complete shit show. And it's like,

oh, this is the perfect setup for them. But then that Pistons team was, if you combine the collective personalities of the people involved with that Pistons team, it was basically like having a top seven player. Those guys were some of the most savvy, competitive,

aggressive. And it turns out Ben Wallace was a top like six or seven. We just weren't thinking of him that way until after the thing. The thing with Toronto, with Toronto's defense is that a thinking of him that way until after the thing the thing with toronto with toronto's defense is that a couple weeks ago when i wrote the article about the spurs they have this poor net rating they've performed they've performed poorly against teams over 500 there's a reddit thread today about how they've gone eight and two since that article toronto was the other many reasons why i don't go there toronto was the other team that performed

poorly and john schumann from nba.com put out a great stat that kind of highlighted that as well, where Toronto's defense has ranked 29th against teams with a top 10 offensive rating, whereas they've just beaten up on virtually everybody else. So against top offenses, their defense hasn't been outstanding the entire year. So the first or second year I did TV, that Knicks team when Carmelo was a top three MVP, and they were shooting a ton of threes. The kid team?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they kind of peaked in March, but there was this run from like December to March where they were awesome. And everybody's like, wow, this team's for real. Oh my God. And then by the time we got to April

they had kind of crested and then they were back to but wasn't that Knicks team like the third or fourth seed no that team I think that team was the second seed

they won like they won in the mid 50s that year I'm gonna look but I don't think I mean I think this Toronto team has offensively been on the

like just a hair beneath the Warriors and the Rockets this year right yeah they've been outstanding yeah for sure but what you're not remembering has offensively been on just a hair beneath the Warriors and the Rockets this year, right? Yeah, they've been outstanding, for sure. But what you're not remembering is that Nick's team was awesome offensively that year. That was one of the first teams that was shooting 33s a game

and making a ton of threes. They were the two seed with 54 wins. They had the the third ranked offensive rating, 18th defensive rating. And they were making like 12 threes a game and Carmelo was playing great. Yeah, Carmelo was incredible. This is the year for the Knicks. And then it just kind

of, that was it. I think it's dangerous sometimes to peak early and my fear with Toronto is they might have peaked three, four weeks ago. And I think if they had beaten Cleveland in that game, even though it was one game, it's regular season, whatever.

It's that was a team psychologically damaging game. The team that I think if they could get their shit together, that America might not be ready for. I radically, I said this a couple of weeks ago is, is fucking Philly. Cause just from a talent standpoint, if you have a weird conference and nobody's that good,

at some point it's just like, who's good on each side and there's three minutes left. It all depends on who has the athletes. And it's like, they have Embiid and Simmons. Those guys on the court will be two of the best players on the court. It's like Chris said, it all depends on Joel Embiid. Is he coming back for Indiana? When he comes back, is he going to be a little bit

spooked by the mask and everything else? If they have Embiid healthy, he's one of those guys that he arguably could be the best player on the floor. Yeah. And he has that game where if the games do slow down and you do need to eat up shot clock. Yeah. We've seen him multiple times against the Lakers, against all these other teams. Just put up those kinds of like classic center games. This is why I love the East this year though.

Cause I think I'm prepared for anything. I don't know what the F's going to happen. I think any of the teams can lose in round one, all eight. I think all eight can lose in round one. And I have no idea who's going to make the finals. And you can make a case for every single team. It's pretty exciting. It is. It's amazing.

The West, it's like, we know. Houston's going to be there. If Curry misses round two, Golden State's vulnerable. If not, no. But we're getting Golden State and Houston. That's happening. In the East? I don't know. All right, guys.

This was fun. We hit everything? Yeah, I think so. I think you're riding high in the Sixers. I can see it in your eyes. I found myself in a weird position where I'm trying to defend San Antonio and Toronto and temper expectations on Philly. I haven't seen this look

in your eyes since we were doing the Miami Vice Rewatch. Can I throw in an X factor for all Philly postseason stuff? Dario. Yes. Dario's been playing out of his mind since the All-Star break. That's it. But this is what we're saying about who are your five. The Sixers know who their five are. When are your five. The Sixers know who their five

are. When there's five minutes left, I know who their five guys are going to be. And all of them play well together. Yes. And they're huge. And I can't believe that they figured out how to get Sarge and Bede and Simmons to all make sense together on a basketball court. But they did. Sarge helped

by improving his jumper. Yeah. I think that's really clicked for him. It's just like overseas. Dario, his shot started like 30%. Then by the end, 40% three-point shooter. Same thing's happening now in the NBA. He's awesome. Sam Henke, that trade was his greatest moment.

Alfred for Dario, basically? Well, just taking Alfred, knowing Orlando wanted him, and just kind of riding out the next five minutes waiting for Orlando to panic, which is exactly what he did. He just took their guy. Yeah. And then he didn't want him. He already had Michael Carter-Williams. He was like, what the hell is he going to do with both of those guys?

And he just kind of stared at Orlando and waited. And Orlando was like, all right, we'll give you 12 and next year's first. And Hank is like, done. And he just took their dude and got Sarich, who was the guy he wanted. Hank, he won every trade he made. He really did. He was a great trader. He's no Danny H.

But great trader. All right, guys. KMC, what are you working on this week? I'm not sure yet. Probably some playoff preview type of stuff and also going to be starting to do a lot of research on awards and all that stuff. All right.

Gun to your head, who comes out of the East? Cleveland. Gun to your head, who comes out of the East, Chris? Philly. Yes. Philly. Sure. You're feeling it.

I'm feeling it. Damn. And beat back for the first round? Yeah. With a mask. Sure. Yes. If I had to bet my life. damn. And beat back for the first round? Yeah. With a mask. Sure. Yes.

If I had to bet my life I can't believe this but I think they stink. I would bet on Cleveland. I would just bet on LeBron. I'm not even betting on their team. Are you bummed out because the finals are going to be a sweep then? Yeah I think the playoffs are going to be super fun

and the finals are probably going to be the worst part of it. Yeah. You'll have if it's LeBron versus Houston or LeBron going to state, LeBron, he'll take care of business in one game. You see Gordon Hayward back jogging. Give me a break. Just come on. That's not happening. Jesus. All right. Coming up,

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All right. On the phone right now. He can't come to Augusta with us. He's got the Griswold family vacation coming, but he's here right now. The baseball season has started. He's got to watch the Winklevoss twins, Stanton and Judge. He's here right now. My buddy Jacko. How's your Yankee season going? Not as well as I would have

expected. It's not terrible, but it's not as much as I hoped for. What's been lacking for you other than wins? Well, the bullpen has not really lived up to its preseason billing of being not just the best in baseball, but maybe one of the best in history. It's kind of stumbled out of the gate. Dillon Batances has resumed

his form from last year, which is not a good thing. He looks now maybe like he might not be what we thought he was. He's skinny, right? Maybe he is what we thought he was. Skinnier Batances this year. Is he? I don't know. I didn't really notice

a big difference in that regard. He has 14 pounds. Oh, did he really? Yeah. Maybe he has 14 pounds off his fastball. It could be, yeah. I mean, he's screwed up the game. You know, he was getting hit pretty good the other day.

He gave up a home run, and he was getting knocked around, and then he made an ill-timed or poorly thrown ball to home when Pillar stole home. So I think it was Pillar dancing off third, and they would have had him by about 20 feet, except that Patances got in his head and he threw it wildly to the screen. So that was not great. And then yesterday Conley gave up a home run to smoke, and then Robertson came in and got in some trouble

and then gave up the Grand Slam. So the lockdown bullpen has not been locked down. And even in a game that they won, Chapman gave up a run. So it's not really been this shutdown as I would have hoped. And I would have hoped that Judge has me a little worried because it's only four games, mind you. But he's gotten on base a little worried because it's only four games, mind you. But he's gotten on base a little bit. He had two hits the first day, and then he had a single yesterday.

But there's been a lot of strikeouts wrapped around that. And so we're supposed to have these twin mashers, and so far he hasn't mashed. It's probably early yet, but it wasn't like they were exactly facing, they weren't really facing Sandy Koufax either. He played center, he didn't like that. I did not like that either because a big guy like that, he's a great athlete, I'll give you that, but I just think there's a lot more reason for concern in center.

He can bump into guys in the left and right, or a short pop-up, you, you know, there's, you get in issues with an infielder who's back to catch the ball. I just think there's a lot more injury potential in center field than there is in left or right. You know, we, we have this much value. Please. I loved it. Of course you did. The possibility for chaos and, and a disastrous moment,

just like tenfold in there. It reminds me, my wife and I binged the first six episodes of Survivor last night. Really? They had, yeah, I still like Survivor. I'll stand by Survivor. I don't care what people think. They had this one, anytime they blindfold people and they, they blindfold them, but there's but they have to do stuff.

But there's the one person shouting instructions from afar who's like their voice coach. And there's like, go right, go left. No, no, watch out. And the people are just running into poles at full speed and hitting things and just like getting hurt. And I can't believe they ever do that as a challenge. That's kind of how I feel with Judge and Center. I think he's going to take somebody out in like a really dramatic way. And I'm here for it, Johnny.

You know, it's funny, the Yankees, they were like, oh, they have like this embarrassment of outfield riches because this is, you know, calling Jacoby Ellsbury involved in something being rich is rich in itself. But, you know, they have Stanton, they have Judge, they have Gardner, they have Aaron Hicks, and they have Ellsbury, and then they had Clint Frazier waiting in the wings. So it was like we almost have too many outfielders.

Just no center fielders. And then Ellsbury, you know, had his usual get hurt in spring training. And poor Clint Frazier ran into a wall, and it's still in the post-concussion protocol. And then Aaron Hicks does something to his oblique, or I think he did something to his oblique, his side somehow. So he's on the DL. They bring up young Billy McKinney, who had a pretty good spring. And you're like, maybe this kid can make some noise, given his opportunity. And he then runs into a wall in Toronto in his second game and bangs up his shoulder

so now it's like we have this you know supposedly embarrassingly rich outfield and now we have to put judge in center and the other ironic thing is i was reading over the weekend it's a judge played center field in the minors apparently he played there in high school and college i guess and then that when he came to the Yankees system, they're like, well, you're going to have to move from center because we have Jacoby Ellsbury under the worst contract in the history of mankind. And he's locked down to that forever. Although they didn't call it the worst.

I'm paraphrasing. I'm editorializing. But we have Jacoby Ellsbury who's going to be our center fielder and an anchor around our necks for the next 13 years. So you need to move to another position. So that's how he became a right fielder. Well, let me tell you about the Red Sox. Cause I was watching them all weekend.

Four nail biters against the devil race. Yeah. Joe Kelly blew the first one and then they, they pulled off all three, but the big, the big storyline, Johnny, I know you'll love this.

Once upon a time, we were making his Hall of Fame plaque. Well, a current Hall of Famer is living up to his billing, yes. Once upon a time, his Hall of Fame plaque, we had written his first name in, and we were chiseling in the second name, and then just a bad year last year. He got hurt. He had no power.

He had a bad wing. And now he's healthy. And Xander Bogarts is now... Was he hitting about 900? You know, I was thinking this weekend, I was trying to think about him versus Rogers Hornsby and Honus Wagner. Some of the other greats.

Coin flip, really. The names that we grew up with, those middle infielders who just were at a whole other level. and that's where he is johnny he's you know it's what a swing of emotions i've had because you know opening day on thursday and the yanks roll to an 8-1 victory severino looks great stanton hits two home runs i was even willing to overlook john Sterling's horrific call, which may be the worst call since sports started on the radio. And the Red Sox have a lead, and then they blow it. Their bullpen implodes. J.D. Martinez did nothing.

I'm like, oh, my God, could this have gone any better for me? And then the Red Sox squeak out three more wins. Bogarts, you can't get them out. Martinez finally got some hits, and I think he got an RBI yesterday. Price looked good, and the Yankees' bullpen implodes, and we got outfield injuries all over the place, and Judge really hasn't done much. So I'm like, my God, what a swing we've had over the weekend. It's just dispiriting. I was ruined the second half of my Easter. I was like, I really became, I was having a fine Easter with my family. Easter bunny brought me jelly beans. It was all good. And then I'm watching the Yankees.

We go sit down for dinner. I'm kind of monitoring it on my phone and the grand slam happens. And then I was like cranky the rest of Easter. And I'm like, it's the first game of the season. This is so ridiculous to have your emotions so tied up with the, with the stupidity. And so, yeah, there you go. They've hurt me already. And then ultimately it just doesn't matter because the Astros are going to

go 125 and 37. Potentially. It just doesn't matter. None of this matters. The Astros might have the best American league team we've ever seen. They're ridiculous. I confess to not having paid attention to them yet this season, but has Garrett Cole pitched

yet? I'll believe that when I see it that he does it over the long haul in the American League. He's better than the Yankees didn't get him. That's what I was hoping for, but this is one of these things, and this is where I'll, this will be now recorded for posterity because I'll overreact, but like

Sonny Gray, right? Now, Sonny Gray and Garrett Cole, I'll confess, before they started being involved with the Yankees or their Yankees rivals, I wouldn't have known either one of them if they walked into this room. Yeah. But everybody's like, oh, you got to get Sonny. The Yankees need Sonny Gray. They got to get Sonny Gray. Sonny Gray is 26.

He's great. Sonny Gray. So we trade, you know, we have a depth of a huge depth of prospects. So we trade some prospects for Sonny Gray. So I'm like, oh, my God, Sonny Gray. So we trade, you know, we have a depth of, a huge depth of prospects. So we trade some prospects for Sonny Gray. So I'm like, Oh my God, Sonny Gray, we got him young and under control. He comes in. He was mediocre last year for the Yankees and extremely frustrating. So they're like, well now Sonny Gray, full year with the Yankees and he's comfortable in New York and Sonny Gray, Sonny Gray. So Sonny Gray comes in and yesterday he couldn't have been more frustrating to watch. He couldn't get out of the fourth.

He got through four innings. He couldn't get out of the fifth. He's got guys on base every inning. He's pitching in and out of trouble. And I'm like, Sonny Gray, what was so great about this? And then it's the same thing about Garrett Cole. Oh, Garrett Cole. We've got to get Garrett Cole.

I've made this before, and it's legendary in the BS report history. When I said I'm not going to be bouncing my grandkids on my knee talking about Anthony Rizzo, which in retrospect, I may be, may well be, but I'm not going to be bouncing my kids on my knee talking about Garrett Cole.

I'm going to go right back into that well and jinx myself again. But he's a difference maker. Give me a break. We should mention he, he had a seven inning start and a win already. And he struck out 11. He struck out 11. 11.

That's pretty. Who did they play? It wasn't anybody that good, but still. That's solid. Yeah. I'm not going to, yeah, I'm not going to turn my nose up at that. I'm not. So there you go.

Now I will be, I have two daughters. Hopefully they'll have multiple grandchildren. So I can bounce one on one knee about Rizzo. And then I can bounce another one on another knee talking about Garrett Cole. Regaling them with stories about Garrett Cole's legendary awesomeness. I'm worried about the Astros just completely blowing this season apart and us kind of losing the will to live by June. We relaunched the Ringer MLB show a couple weeks ago, which you've been on.

And they did over-unders last week. And Michael Bauman had Zach Cram, who's one of our rising stars here at the Ringer, and who just calmly laid out the AL West over-unders. He's just ripping off facts. And they get to the Astros, and he's like, the Astros have seven of the 10 best starters in the division. It's like two of them can't start because they can only start five guys at a time.

So they had to move them to the bullpen. It's a disaster, Johnny. It's not good. I will say, I will say this. Yes. Yes.

They have Keiko. I'll believe Verlander can do it for a full season. I mean, I know he was brilliant in the post season. No one knows that more than me. I want to see Verlander at whatever age he is and how many miles on his arm do it for a full season. I mean, I know he was brilliant in the postseason. No one knows that more than me. I want to see Verlander at whatever age he is and how many miles on his arm do it for a full season. And regardless of his debut, I want to see Garrett Cole do it over the course of a full season. The amazing thing, though, I will give them this, is that Connecticut's own and UConn's own George Springer is turning himself into a superstar.

I know. He has been good. Yeah, McHugh and Peacock would probably be the number two starters on the Red Sox, depending on if this David Price thing is real or not. I don't want to get my hopes up. He does look better this year. Yeah. We'll see. I think it's going to be a long year, but I'm glad you brought up UConn,

because that was one of the reasons you called, or I wanted to call you. Every year when UConn loses in March Madness. Yeah. My first thought is, wow, I can't believe somebody beat UConn. My second thought is I can't wait to watch the highlights to see Gino Auriemma do the the half hearted. I'm still walking past you. Shitty handshake that it was. That's what the opposing coach. Such a bad loser. And then my third reaction is I can't wait to talk to Jacko because I know other than maybe the Red Sox or Patriots losing, nothing brings you more joy than the UConn's women's team going down. What were your thoughts? Walk us

through it. Well, I was, you know, I, it was Friday night and they played a late game and, and I really didn't even give it like a second thought because I'm like, well, it's a fait accompli that they're going to roll by 150. They put up 140 on somebody earlier in the tournament. They had like 90 at the half. The New York Post's Phil Mushnick was all outraged by that.

It was a battle between Phil Mushnick and Gino Auriemma. I didn't know who to root for. It was like the Iran-Iraq war. So that was exciting. And then somebody emailed me or Twittered me, tweeted me a GIF or something of Gene Aurieba, and it was like the first thing he ever did that I supported because the NCAA has this ridiculous thing that you can only have an NCAA sponsor's liquid on your post-game press conference,

be it water or Powerade or Gatorade, or you have to have it in an NCAA cup. And Oriyama came out and he added Dasani water, which must not be a sponsor. Some NCAA minion was trying to grab the water from him while he played fetch with it. It was fantastic work by Oriyama. So I didn't really think anything of them winning. I figured they were going to roll through to a championship because they were 35 an hour, 36, whatever. And they've won every game by some ridiculous margin. So when I woke up Saturday morning, I looked at my phone on Twitter. I couldn't believe it that they had lost. It was unbelievable.

And so then I flipped to ESPN and they had highlights. And then I saw his postgame press conference and he has very little experience with it, but he does not handle losing at all well. Oh, it's the best. He had this surly press conference about, well, you learn lessons, but I'm smart enough. I don't need to learn any more lessons, and it was fantastic. I don't think there's any love lost with him and Muffet McGraw. No, I don't think so. The full-paced walk handshake where you don't even stop for the split second just anxiously is my favorite.

It was actually one of the great basketball games of the last couple of years. I had randomly my TV was on ESPN or whatever. I think it was on ESPN. So when I got home and it had already happened and it was the thing where you have the lag where you can rewind it and go backwards and see what was on the last hour and a half. And, uh, and it was like, like, uh, Notre Dame almost blew that game in regulation in like a crazy way. Like it was over and they just completely choked in the last minute. And then it came back to the overtime. It was the same thing.

They were up five with like 40 seconds left and almost choked again. And then that girl who's going to be, I mean, holy crap. Yeah. She won both games. Yeah. And then she makes the three, which is like, you don't see a ton of like threes with a hand in your face to win games and women's college basketball for whatever reason. The combo of those two games, this is all of a sudden the WNBA is going to have like a, like a new star here.

That's crazy though. I mean, it was so much more exciting than the men's games. The men's games were pretty awful. Oh, brutal. And it was amazing to me in watching 10 seconds of highlights on ESPN, which was as much of the game as I saw, is that, you know,

after she hit the shot, you kind of only have like a one point something seconds left. They set up a pretty good play. They did. That girl damn near hit the layup, like, which would have been absolutely unbelievable, like a dagger to follow a dagger. So I was amazed that they made it as interesting as they did.

And then I read that, I guess, Notre Dame had a big lead and UConn fought back, and then they fought back in OT as well. So a valiant effort for them, but all for naught. And then I'm always worried the state's going to shut down because the UConn men, God bless them, are so pathetic now and are in a pathetic conference. Like all we have are the Yukon women. What happened to the Kevin Olley thing? I thought that was one of the weirdest stories. Like three years ago, he was debating between,

he'd won a title and he was debating between re-signing with Yukon or like taking the Knicks job or the OKC job. He basically had all these picks and he stayed in UConn. And then two years later, he's like, you gotta leave. You're terrible. You gotta get out of here. I didn't understand that.

And now they're trying to get out from his contract for cause, but they haven't really said what the cause is. If he did some shady basketball recruiting or something, if that's the allegation, because they don't want to pay him. And by the time they litigate it,

they ought to just pay him and make him go on his way but i mean yukon basketball the men's team has fallen from his lofty heights to such a spot that like i almost feel bad for them you're dancing on their grave because the part that makes me feel bad for yukon is they were the only ones that really did the right thing when it came to the Big East, where they were trying to keep the Big East alive and tried to stay loyal to the Big East. And all these Catholic schools were basically like, screw you, because of football. They were like, you go with your football thing and get the hell out of here. And all these other non-Catholic schools were racing for other conferences. And UConn was like, let's try to keep the Big East together.

And they ended up holding the bag. And so they end up in this lousy conference that plays teams that nobody in the state cares about after having, you know, 30 years of playing Georgetown and Syracuse and Boston College and all these teams that you had rivalries with, Villanova. You know, that was a huge deal. And that was their identity. And you could, and you were on, you know, they were on ESPN every Monday night or whatever with the Big East, you had CBS games with the Big East, and now they're in a conference that has to be impossible to recruit in, because even though you say,

well, we've got four championships, that was a long time ago in a different conference, so there's no guarantee of being on TV. There's no guarantee of making the tournament. And it's, and there's no guarantee that you're going to, you know, you can have an NBA career when you're in this lousy conference against lousy competition. So they're in the AAC and the other schools are central Florida,

Cincy, East Carolina, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, SMU. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And then, you know, they, and, Memphis, South Florida, SMU. Yeah. Wow.

Wow. And they wanted to build a football. Their goal was to be like Michigan, that they wanted to have a big-time basketball program and be a regional college and have a big-time football program and a big-time basketball program. It actually did make sense. They built this 40,000-seat stadium for football,

and the football team has been wildly unsuccessful. I mean, there are people go to games to go to the tailgates and what have you, but when they initially built that, they were envisioning a big East with Miami and they'd be playing Miami. They'd be playing Boston college, Syracuse and football. You could at least sell that a little bit, but you know, nobody's buying tickets to go watch him play central Florida as good as central Florida is. That's just not like a marquee matchup. Yeah. You know, and this is like an old guy thing for us. Cause we're old now we're in our late forties.

Yeah. Very old. And things change and you got to roll with the punches and that's just the way it goes. With that said, the, the, the fall of the big East is such a bummer. We did the 30 for 30 about the heyday of it that Ezra did, who ended up doing the OJ thing. And it really did mean something in the 80s in a significant way. But just in general, it's really hard to believe we couldn't make this work. And it's hard to believe that you wouldn't have a Big East that has UConn and BC and Syracuse and Georgetown. And it just, it's so logical.

And now there's nothing. There's no cohesion. It doesn't. And I know the money and all that. I get all the reasons. And some schools jump to the ACC and football. And I get it. But it's just a bummer.

It's weird that we haven't figured out. You know what else is a bummer. It's weird that we haven't figured out. You know what else is a bummer? The fact that Loyola Chicago kind of, even though they're much bigger than Holy Cross, in my head, the Catholic Jesuit college that comes out of nowhere and makes the

Final Four and plays this cool style with a bunch of four-year players and they're playing like the 2014 Spurs. And oh, by the way, they have this 98-year-old they're playing like the 2014 Spurs. And oh, by the way, they have this 98-year-old nun. I felt like that was our corner that I had always been waiting for. It would have been a 98-year-old priest for us, but it was always what I wanted for our school. Right.

Like, why can't we do that, right? Just why can't we catch lightning in a bottle and have a couple guys that play out of their heads? I know. It's not too much to ask for. I'm not asking that we become Duke or some national powerhouse. But could we have flashes every couple of years or maybe we make a run? I'm not even asking for the final four. Could we get to a Sweet 16?

That's how crazy we would go with that. You see what Gonzaga did. You see Loyola Chicago. And it does seem like the window is open. I thought the style that they played was one of the keys for it because they had those guys there, and they really were creative offensively, and it just doesn't seem that hard to replicate. Right.

I didn't realize that school was that big, though, because I was like, oh, I wonder if they have like 3000, like we do. It's like 17,000 people there. Yeah. That's what that helps. They have a much bigger school with more resources and what have you. But I mean, college basketball, when, you know, when we were in college and guys went for four year and this is such an old guy rant, but guys went for four years and you would know guys like pro Washington was at Syracuse, I swear for 15 years,

like Sean Miller was at Pitt, I swear for eight years. So you got to know these guys, Chris Mullen at St. John's, Patrick Ewing and, and Patrick Ewing at Georgetown, you know, those guys had rivalries. You knew these guys, you either liked them or disliked them, depending on who you were rooting for. You were like way into it, but you had rivals. You can remember now these guys, you know, Kentucky, they have five new guys every year, you know? And then, and then with, this is such an old guy rant too,

but with this conference realignment, like I'm watching the NCAA and they're like West Virginia. And they talked about how they did in the SEC. And they're like, wait, what? West Virginia? Or I don't even know what, I don't even know what conference West Virginia is in, but it's not the big East, you know?

And somebody, some random team is in some, you know, Texas A&M is in the SEC. And you're like, wait, what? Like, when did that happen? I have no idea what conference anybody's in anymore. So you can't even follow conferences, let alone players. It is completely, it's completely incoherent. And like the Tate and Titus who do our college basketball podcast for us, you know, it's their job to follow it and they get it. They don't even think twice about it. For people like us, these schools just pop in every year. The players are almost always different.

And I don't know, it's made me lose. I didn't even do a bracket this year. I just felt like, what's the point? Yeah, it's just a crap shoot. Throwing darts against the wall. It's not like there's any art to this. So that's what murdered Kevin Olley, I think. And maybe he couldn't recruit and he won a championship.

Everybody says, well, they were Calhoun's players that he recruited and Calhoun's system. And so he just inherited that. And he was the beneficiary when they won that year. But I think they have a hard time recruiting and, you know, UConn, they should have taken that $18 million they're paying Danny Hurley. And maybe he'll be good. Maybe he'll recruit players. He got guys to go to Rhode Island. So maybe he can get them to know, UConn, they should have taken that $18 million they're paying Danny Hurley and maybe he'll be good. Maybe he'll recruit players.

He got guys to go to Rhode Island, so maybe he can get them to go to UConn. But they should have taken that money and bribed somebody to get into a better conference. I mean, what makes sense for them is to get in the ACC for basketball and for football. That would be their saving grace because people would be into it to go see, you know, North Carolina and go see Miami and go see Florida state. You know, that would make all the sense in the world, even if they got rolled in football, which they would, those are, and there'd be compelling basketball matchups, obviously with Carolina and,

you know, Duke, obviously. So that, that would be huge for them. That's what they should do. But this, this goes back to the whole sports are thing where, you know, if there is a sports are sports are comes in and just looks at, at these conferences and says, all right, let's fix this. Sorry guys. I'm stepping in. You're going here, you're going there, you're going there. And I've always joked about the sports are thing going back to the last decade when I was ready for page two.

Maybe this is the time for me to get it done. If I ever had a chance with the president, maybe it's this lunatic we have right now. Maybe I could talk him into it. It's not anything. You got to get on Fox and Friends. You got to get yourself on Fox and

Friends, maybe with like the Andre the Giant thing and say, while I'm here at Fox and friends, that's when you pitch the sports czar. So it would have to be a six month, almost like I'm like I'm like I'm a spy or like I'm just going stealth or I'm playing a character or something where it's like, wow, Simmons lost his mind. He became a conservative like Trump. Right. And I'm just going on these shows. I'm like, look, Simmons lost his mind. He became a conservative Trump guy. I'm just going on these shows. I'm like, look, man, the more I looked

at it, Trump's doing good stuff. We shouldn't do anything about guns. I just go all in. It's with this plan that Trump's going to make me the sports czar. Actually, I'm going to do good. I'm going to do good things for sports. Let me think about this.

There is a roadmap for me here. Cause there's a lot of sports are, you could have the sports are put Holy cross in the big East. And then that would solve a lot of problems for both of us. I'm going to be the sports are I'll be putting the sports are. Oh, so you'll put us in the big East. That's great. That's good. I went over Trump. I start going on Fox and all these different things.

And, and at some point he just loves me and we meet at Mar-a-Lago and I'm just like, here's what I can do for you. He's like, this is great. But the problem is he might actually make me like the secretary of state. He might think higher than sports.

This guy has some good ideas. You're too good to be sports czar. You need to be the secretary of defense. You need to be my new vice president. I've decided to get rid of my pets. He puts you in charge of building the wall or something. And you're like, what happened here? What am I doing?

You're my new vice president. You can't fire your vice president. He's been elected. I don't care. I'm changing it. But we did get a sports czar. I was watching a heavyweight fight this weekend with Anthony Joshua, which was terrible.

And he, at the end of the thing, he held three belts, but then Deontay Wilder is the fourth belt. Yeah, and it's like there's four belts, there's four heavyweight belts, we need four? Right, that's a problem. I think for me, the highlight of March Madness was you and I emailing each other Jim Nance 60

Minutes promos, none of which can be read on this podcast. Right. For the Stormy Daniels interview. And the other highlight for Jim is the other night, which I tweeted out, and I was not the only one to notice this, when he talked about when the kid from Michigan, yeah, the kid from Michigan,

he jumped onto the broadcasting table and there was a picture of my favorite person on Earth, Bill Raftery, and Grant Hill reacting shocked. And they were talking about how Grant Hill got in the Hall of Fame. Jim Nantz says, and not only did he get in the Hall of Fame, but today he created a Hall of Fame meme. Which he meant meme, but he called it a meme. I didn't know that. You said meme? Oh, yeah.

I tweeted it out. I'm like, did he just say meme? And then they it a meme-y. I didn't know that. He said meme-y? Oh yeah, I tweeted it out. I'm like, did he just say meme-y? And then they had a replay of it and he was like, that's a Hall of Fame meme-y for Grant Hill. Hello, friends. It's a meme-y for meme. Yeah, it was great. He had a read for it. God, I wish I could remember

what show it was. He did a read during the Final Four and I was dying. Oh, it was for The Last OG with Tracy Morgan. Is it coming up, friends? It's a hilarious time. It's The Last OG with Tracy Morgan.

Did you see his tonal inflection was totally wrong? My favorite thing about the NCAA tournament, and I have watched a good portion of it, even though I don't know who's in what conference or know any of these players, is that it's on TBS. And they've had a thing on TBS where Snoop Dogg is going to host the Joker's Wild. I saw that. Snoop Dogg is the Joker's Wild.

Like Snoop Dogg of Dr. Dre fame back in 1992 and, you know, one eight seven and nothing but a G thing. And now he's the host of the Joker's wild, like incredible, just an amazing turn of events. You know, talk about somebody changing their persona, you know, those are all on Amazon. And I watched them with my son and my daughter. I watched like three episodes cause my son loved it because, you know, he's got an IQ of like 50.

And it is trapped in a time warp. It was like- The original. It was like, we asked 100 secretaries if they had ever made out with their boss. How many of these hundreds said they did? And it's literally like that.

You can't believe it. It's just a funny, I was't believe it. It's just funny. I was dying. You think it's like an SNL parody with Will Ferrell as the host, but it's not. These are actual questions. I highly recommend it. Jacko, we're going to go. Enjoy Disney.

Thank you. I'm sorry about the end of the season. Please don't do anything to get yourself kicked out of Augusta because I've never asked for anything but I really want to go next year yeah we'll bring you next year please behave yourselves and act accordingly and don't create any memes there'll be no memes at all

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The next time you'll hear from me, I will be at Augusta. Don't forget to monitor the Shack House podcast, House of Carbs, Against All Odds. We'll be going on there tomorrow night with our master's picks. I'm coming back Wednesday night after we do the par three with a big pod about what it's like to be at Augusta. Stay tuned for that. And then we'll also be in House of Carbs as well.

Looking forward to it. Enjoy the rest of the day. We saw that I don't have. We saw.