The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Power Rankings and “Do You Believe?” With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus an Eagles/Steelers Fan Base Report With Chris Ryan and Craig Horlbeck

Episode Date: January 6, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Kirk Goldsberry to discuss all the NBA teams through updated power rankings (3:16). Then, Chris Ryan and Craig Horlbeck join to talk about their favorite NFL teams and the playoff picture (01:38:38). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kirk Goldsberry, Chris Ryan, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. Find our more at apple.com/apple-watch-series-11 The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by Fandul Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did a mailbag. We started 2025 with the mailbag. We started 2026 with the mailbag. Got some great questions from a lot of listeners. Came up with a couple of new categories, argued about movies.

Talked about heat a few times. He kept coming. Coming up, turns out people like asking us about heat. I don't know why. Apparently it's a good movie. I've only seen it once or 50 times. Anyway, check that out. We will be coming back with a brand new movie next week. We're doing What Lies Beneath, which you can find on Netflix, where the rewatchables is going to be officially moving at the end of the month from a video standpoint, but also still available on Spotify and all platforms and available on video on Spotify as well. Don't forget that part. But what lies? beneath next week. Watch it on Netflix, listen to our podcast on Monday. I also, somehow this has never happened.

I've done rewatchables live, but I've never done a live podcast in Los Angeles. So I've done live rewatchables, but not a live Bill Simmons podcast. That all changes on when is the day? February 11th. And tickets will go on sale on Friday, January 9th,

the ringer.com slash events. I have no idea who's going to be with me. I know it'll be fun, so you can go check that one out. Coming up on this podcast, Kurt Goldsbury and I are going to do an NBA power pole, go 30 to 1, figure out where Michael Porter Jr. should go. Does anyone want Trey Young? What's going on with OKC? Do we believe in Phoenix and the South Tech's whole bunch of questions?

And then after that, Chris Ryan and Craig Horlebeck, they stuck around after we taped the rewatchables yesterday. And we talked a bunch of NFL stuff. Craig's team, the Steelers, CR's team, the Eagles. My team, the Patriots, what do we believe? Why don't we have playoff fantasy? A whole bunch of things going on. So very fun podcast.

Hope you enjoy it. We're going to take a break. And then Pearl Jam. The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fandall. Fandall's got it all. Same game parlias. Quick bets for jumping in live. They have your way.

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Call 888789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, Kurt Goldsbury's here. He is going to do a little power pole with me. We're going to go from 30 to one. We feel like we can hit a bunch of fun storylines. What's your favorite storyline in the season so far? We're like 36 games in. So what are we at the 41% mark?

I don't know, 42% mark. What's your favorite story? Well, I'm biased. I have to say my San Antonio Spurs, surprisingly ahead of schedule, Bill. I love the guards, though. I thought this was going to be a Wembe team. I was talking to somebody today.

Even without Wemby, the Spurs have one of the best young cores in the league. And that's been my favorite story. I love to watch them more than anything. I just love that team. Yeah, I agree with you on that. It's funny. always surprised when somebody is ahead of schedule, but ahead of schedule happens over

and over again in the history of the NBA. Yeah, you've been good about that. Just happened with OKC. Yeah, it's always like you're always better betting on a year and a half, two years ahead versus an older team, like the clip versus share or something or the ones that are the dangerous ones. One of my students told me one time is like athletes are most famous in their lives past their primes. And so I think we overrate these older guys as we get to know them. But yeah, It's a young man's game, like I always say. Except for Steph Curry and Kevin Durant, who are somehow both 37 years old and still cranking it.

All right, PowerPull. We're going 30 to 1 and we're going to be able to hit a bunch of stuff. So I sent you my list. This is not both of our list. I just sent you. This is my PowerPole. We're going through it. First group, the drags.

Indiana is now 6 and 30 with no signs of life. And I think they basically have locked down. They're going to be the worst team in the league. I think they're fine with it. They'll start shelving guys, scratching guys. And what that does is that locks down a top four pick, which is important because we have Peterson and Boozer and DeBanza. I think Caleb Wilson, even if you get four and you end up with Caleb Wilson, it's like,

fine. That guy might be a multiple-time NBA guys. So I think this is one of the weirdest situations in the history of the league where you have a team that was on the cusp of winning a championship and becoming the ultimate sports movie story and then in the blink of an eye it's over their best players gone for a year and now they have a chance to get basically a franchise guy for the next 15 years and be back running in a year i don't remember anything like that before no the the best comp i have is a very different situation but it's the bulls post jordan when tim floyd came in and it was just they

went from very very apex of the league to the bottom but yeah they're six and 30 i heard zach low saying yesterday. I didn't think they'd be this bad. I agree with that. They still have so many good players. They have a good coach. Six and 30 though, Bill, that's surprising. They're taking the opposite approach as your team. They're obviously just going to get a draft pick and come back at full strength next year. I like that as an executive. And I think they'll be a force to be reckoned with next year. This is just a gap year. I don't think they had a choice because the way it worked out where they just had injuries coming out of the gate even before the season started. And they They were just behind the eight ball.

And they also don't have anybody as good as Jalen Brown on the Pacers. I mean, 100%. If you have a top six, top seven guy, which is the way Jalen's been playing, it's a lot easier to win games. All right. So they're 30. Sacramento, I have a 29. They're eight and 28.

They're last in net rating now, 11.5. I don't remember if I've talked about them on a pod. We killed them before the season when House and Zach and I did the over under pod. And Zach got as gaming as he's ever gotten, I think, just completely. I'm completely eviscerating a team. I don't understand anything this team is doing. The Westbrook thing to me is the goofiest subplot of the season where you have, you're paying Malik Monk, 18 million a year.

You're burying him. He's playing either zero minutes a game, six minutes a game. You went and got Schrooter over the summer to be your point guard. You gave up on him basically when the season started, and then you get Russ as an expiring. It's not like he's helping them win games. They're terrible. All they should be doing is trying to build up the trade value of Schrooter, Monk, some of their other dudes, I don't know what they're doing,

Kirk. It is especially sad, Bill, when you look at it in the context, I was at the NBA Cup final and watching the Knicks and the Spurs, and you're seeing Harrison Barnes and Mike Brown out there, you're seeing, you know, deer and fox out there. Yeah. We just talked about Halliburton. It's especially sad when you think about where they were just a few years ago and how they're, like, back to being the Kings.

Yeah. Well, you also have the Subonis trade now looming, but you gave him this pretty pricey extension in a league where everybody's afraid to trade for a contract that's $35 million and up. So I think it's going to be a little harder to get rid of him than maybe they think. They do have a good rookie center that I think could take some of his spots. But this is, I just can't believe this is probably the worst shape they've been in. I don't know about that. Well, I think it is, though.

They have, who is their best asset? Subonis? Murray. Murray or, yeah, Murray or Sabonis. Is Murray even, like on a final four team? Is he even starting? No, he's not starting. That's for sure.

No, it's like a ninth man. How many minutes would he play for the Celtics? Would he play over Sam Hauser? I don't even know. No, I would just push back because they have such an illustrious history at being of the bottom of this league. Like, they've been in some bad eras. Well, I'm talking about the Vivek era.

But yeah, they picked. They had Fox and they had Bagley back to back. They were five and two in those drafts. And it was, you know, not awesome back then either. But I think this is worse, though, because they're actually paying a real roster. They're in one of the aprons. They turned Fox into, I don't even really know what they got. And Fox, by the way, everybody's watching him this year and the Spurs going, oh, Fox is good.

It's like, yeah, Fox is good. He was good. He was in the all-NBA conversation for a couple years. All right, so they're 29. Washington's 28. They're 9 and 25. Normally I wouldn't want to talk about them. It's just a weird team where they just got a bunch of assets they liked.

Didn't really know what they were doing with them, but they don't really care through some people together. They have some bets. And then our buddy Mark Stein starts the ball rolling on a Tray Young conversation with them, which they have McCollum's expiring contract and Chris Middleton's expiring. on contract. I actually tried to figure out what the trade would be and I had some trouble, even as the Picasso of the trade machine, trying to figure out how the contracts go back and forth because it's like 63 million from McCollum and Middleton. Tray's making 45, so there's

other. So I'm sure there's a way to work it out. Do you like the idea of Washington buying low on Tray Young for this year and probably next year because I don't see him opting out of his deal? I do. I actually think there's some bright spots in Washington with George and Saar if they can keep those guys and get Tray Young. I mean, what else do they have to look forward to? They have a terrible net rating. They have trouble selling tickets. I think you got you got to look at them as one of the more attractive potential shooters for Tray Young. So I actually like it. I know that our friend Joe House texted us last night and said, please don't pour any gas on that fire. I'm sorry, House. I think it actually kind of makes

sense, Bill. I told House, House went on the ringer gambling show yesterday and picked the Chargers, not just plus three and a half in New England, but he picked them money line. So they were going to go into New England and win. And three hours later, Tray Young to the wizards emerged. And I was like, this is how God works, House. How dare you go against your buddy of 37 years and take the Chargers? Now you have to watch Tray Young. It's weird because on the one hand, is it a distressed asset. You know, it's like getting a distressed asset. On the other hand, not sure he's an asset because this league is so good everybody's so good offensively now we have teams multiple teams in the 120s so it's not like being a good offensive player is as much of his

advantage as it used to be it's a league where denny abdi is averaging 25 7 and 7 you know so when you throw in his defensive deficiencies and the fact that nobody seems to like playing with them i don't really know what you're getting but if i'm washington and i have this goofy team of of basically shooting guards that bring the ball up and, you know, maybe. Yeah. Well, I think you're exactly right. The market for, the NBA is so much smarter now than it was when we used to love players like Trey Young, you look at these stats, you look at his offensive numbers, but we're

so much smarter at evaluating defense. And the market for anybody who is so sort of negative on that end of the court is just, it's just more efficient now. Right. And I think that's a big part of it. But I think the play is you get him now and then maybe you get him at a lower number and keep him happy in Washington. I certainly wouldn't want them to get him and then extend him at the max.

That would be a bad move for Joe House's Washington Wizards. If they did that, that's almost like you have to divorce your team. I don't even know if Vivek Rana DeVay would do that. By the way, the king said they're out. They're not interested. When the kings aren't interested, that's usually a bad sign. I don't mind it buying low for them and seeing what's there.

We've seen him succeed in the playoffs. I was thinking about there are guys in history and this isn't just in basketball but it's for football too that have dined off some result that if you go back and you study the result maybe the result was a little more dubious

and you're dining on that but maybe it shouldn't happen. And Trey, you'd be like, well, he made the Eastern Conference finals. He led the Hawks. And it's like, well, that is true. Let's go back and look. Let's see what the league was that year.

The conference was weak. And in the second round, they had this, you know, once in a decade event of Ben Simmons, his career ending during a playoff series. Like, he literally lost his confidence in real time. And the team cratered. And the Hawks, if you go back and you look at all those games, there were crazy comebacks and, you know, the Sixers just fall apart. And if that doesn't happen in Philly just wins that.

series. We're not having, there's no case for Tray Young. Yeah, that's a fair point. I also think it's worth bringing up that the man who drafted Tray Young in Atlanta and postured them to get in the position to get Tray Young in the first place, Travis Schlank is now one of the leaders of the front office in Washington. Oh, a Travis Redemption. Travis Schlank. And we've seen that in every sport. Like these guys, once you build a relationship like that, you'll see them bring them home. So I think the shoe fits Bill Simmons. Okay. Well, I like for Atlanta, I still have not given up at Atlanta.

They'll be coming up later in the power pole. But I like flipping Trey into C.J. And if you don't really have to give up anything else other than contracts going back and forth, I don't mind that because I actually think they kind of need somebody like C.J. and the team, the problem with Trey, and C.J. is not a good defender either. But maybe it's just the kind of kind of mix that they. need. New Orleans 27. They were looking frisky and now they've lost seven straight and yet they don't have their pick. We've talked about that a million times. Brooklyn 26. They're 11 and 22. I went

under on them as one of my locks in the over under pot. I think they're over under was like 19. Yeah. And I didn't think they wanted to be good and I still don't think they want to be good. But Michael Porter Jr. has kind of flipped this and ruined it and has had this unbelievable breakout season where this is where I talked about last week with Mahoney about do they need like the breakthrough player award to add to most improved.

You can't really necessarily give Michael Porter most improved because he's just getting way more shots. Yeah. And I've always had that theory about good stats, bad teams. How many guys talked about this many times in the pot? How many guys in the league could score 20 points if they just want a bad team?

How many guys could score 25? Maybe that's a little of that. On the other hand, I've watched him, like, go toe to toe with excellent players and carry his team against better teams. He did it to the Celtics. He killed the Celtics in Boston. And I do wonder, could he save a couple seasons here or elevate a couple teams? But more importantly, Kirk, if you're in Brooklyn, you have to trade him like this week. You're passing the point of like, you're not going to be able to get in the top four if you don't get rid of him now, if that's your goal. It might not be your goal. But if they want to be a bottom four team, they have to trade him.

this week he's making the team too good yeah they need more of those cam thomas shots and and fewer of these mpj shots yeah mbj is like one of the more talented pure shooters in the NBA he works out a lot with stephen curry and his trainer brand of pain i remember brandon told me one time like you wouldn't believe the number of times that mbj beat stephen curry and shooting drills and shooting games um he is super talented and you know he had the back issue coming out of college which which dropped them in the stock. But this guy has been one of the most talented players in basketball in a long time. I like

him. I agree with you. My only note on Brooklyn, like the way they're playing, I would swap them out of this Dregs category you gave me and put them above Utah. I like... So you'd put them in the next category called the Young and the Frisky? I just assumed they're going to trade Porter. I wanted

to keep them in the Dregs because I thought they were just going to trade Porter. But if you're right, if they don't, they're in the Young and the Frisky. Yeah, yeah. I think they're, I like them and they're shown flashes of being a very good defense through stretches of this season, that young group coming together. They have the chance, Bill, and I'm not sure this is the route they're going to take, but they have the chance to get better as this season goes on. I think there's more good coaches right now than we've ever had. And, you know, the Nets coach is a good example. The Sons

coach who I think him and Missoula are in the running for coach of the year. But it just seems like there's more smart people running teams versus the old days where it was like some ex-player who'd already coached three other teams. We had a lot of those guys. We don't have as many of those guys. Apologies to Doug Christie. No, I agree with one crossover NFL take, I think one of the reasons, like the Jacksonville coach or the Bears coach we saw in that sport this year, just how important coaching can be for a team and the Bears. It's specialists too. People who are really good at one side of their offense or defense. Yeah, I agree. I had that in my notes. actually will hard he's another great coach in a struggling environment but yeah there's so many good

young coaches right now yeah well he could save golden state season i want to hold that thought when we get to golden state the trade that's the easiest trade i actually asked bobby marks i texted him today about i was trying to understand these poison pill guys and i guess one hasn't been traded since 1785 um but it's the hardest it's ever been to make trades and yet the easy trade and the trade that makes sense for both sides is Porter going to Detroit. And that's the one that's sitting there. Harris isn't expiring.

They have Ron Holland, which is a tough asset to give up, but you got to give up something to get something. They have picks. And I watch Detroit and so much relies on Cade in the last five minutes of every game that I think as good as they've been

and they definitely have an identity. You have to have a second guy who can grade a shot. If you don't do that, then you're basically banking on maybe Ivy can become that guy. Yeah. But that trade just makes a lot of sense. Then Brooklyn just buys out Harris. He goes in signs with the contender.

You've held off the fort of not being one of the five worst teams, and you could just play all your young guys and try to lose. That's what I would do. Yeah, Detroit has a defense that is their identity, they're physical, but they lack that. The Malik Beasley shooting numbers that were so great last year, haven't been replaced. They have Duncan Robinson.

They would slide MPJ in that role. Basically, the Harris and yeah, whatever that forward role is, they'd lose on defense with him because he's not a good defensive player. There's somebody that people target when he's out there on a good team.

But, yeah, they're overloaded on defense and underloaded on shooting. So from that perspective, it makes sense. I wonder if they're a little reticent because of Harris's off-court impacts just as a leader,

as the grown-up in the room. And I don't know if they want to mess with it. This is a team that's getting better. That'd be the pushback. They feel like they have the best record in the East right now. I know Zach thinks they might make a trade. Obviously, they have to look at it. I wouldn't be surprised to see them.

This is our team. We're going to try to win the Eastern Conference with this group. I actually think that's probably the right move. Because whatever happens, they're not winning the title this year. And Zach and I talked about when we talked about them a month ago as a trade team, you go under the premise of what would Sam Presti do. He definitely wouldn't do anything this year.

He'd wait and probably wait until the summer to really make a move on somebody. But Porter's playing so well, and the East is so wide open. I guess your question is, could we make the finals if we did this trade? Right. And is that a good enough goal for you?

And when you think that team was so bad a couple years ago and, you know, how starved Detroit is for a good team again, you'd be like, we might actually make the finals if we do this. I think you're having meetings about it. Next group,

the Young and the Frisky, Utah 25, 12 and 23. It's interesting, if they had had Kessler, if he hadn't gotten hurt so early in this season, I do wonder what this team looks like because some of their other assets have come through.

Kianti George is my number one. I have no idea what to make of this guy as an asset. Because he's averaging 24 a game. It's hard for me to imagine him being one of the two best guys on a really good team. Right. And you watch them at the end of games

and he just seems like he can get anywhere on the floor he wants to get to, which I think is the number one thing you'd want as a guard in the last five minutes of a game. They have marketing. Yeah.

There's good stuff happening here. Yeah, I hope for my friend Will Hardy that this is the last year he has to go through this because there is good stuff happening. They have talent. It's a proud franchise. And I hope Danny Ains decides

to start, you know, really pushing next year. This year, you know, I don't know why they would try to win much more than they are where they are right now in the Western Conference. But, man, this is a fan base that we know is sick of losing. Like, they're accustomed to being at the top of the Western Conference. Would you trade marketing or now? I would field offers, and I think that's what Danny's been doing. And I would be picky.

But I would if the right offer presented itself. I think you look at the Western Conference right now, there's a lot of great players younger than Markinen that are going to be around for a while. I was just looking that up. What is his age exactly? Oh, he's 28. So he turns 29 in May.

Yeah. And that's where you have to think. Like, every decision you're making is where are we in 2030, basically. So he's 32 at that point. Shea. Right. Well, they're fun. Listen, and the same thing for this next team, 24 Charlotte,

who's 13 and 23. like just two good league pass teams. These were teams that you did not want to watch ever for any circumstances. Charlotte last night put them on, wanted to see if they would go a little toe to toe with a seemingly struggling OKC team just because they've been 500 for two weeks and turned on the game and Charlotte was up 20. It's like what's got, and they killed Charlotte, like literally killed them. It was probably the best Hornets game in five years.

Yeah, it was the most stunning result of the year. I would go so far just to be like, I cannot blow. believe what I'm watching. I wanted to watch the Sun's Rockets game, but I couldn't take my eyes off of what was happening in Oklahoma City. And Khan Kniepple and Brandon Miller and La Mello ball just hitting three after

three in this defense, frustrating the thunder. Yeah. Yeah, they had you know, when they have Miller, and he's been kind of in and out, he's been banged up, but he seems healthy now. And him and Kinnippled together are just

a really fun foundation. Like, really feel like that's, I've talked about Charlotte too much, but I really feel like there's something there. What's interesting is Lamello, he played 25 minutes, 16 points, two rebounds. It wasn't like this was like the Lamello show last night. It was really about their wings. And OKC having a lot of issue with their flexibility. I can't wait to talk about O'KC. Chicago, 17 and 19, watched them last night, play the Celtics. Celtics killed him. But Zellis, I really like, and I think he's competitive. And I think there's something potentially special with him. I'm monitoring him.

Yeah, what else you watch in there? What else do you watch when you watch this team? It's Dark Times in Chicago. I watched the beginning of that game last night, too, when the Boston Celtics just destroyed them on both ends of the court. It's just so embarrassing on the interior with Chicago. Your guy, Ceda, just bullying them around. Like, they have no answers.

I don't know what they're trying to do. It's bleak. I think they were trying to have a really fun offensive team built around their guards. But the problem is they didn't trade Kobe White in time. And now they're kind of stuck where they are. The Can't Quit Yet list. Dallas, I probably have too high at number 22. They're 13 and 23.

No. Net rating minus 3.7. I can't give up on them yet. And I don't know why. And they're probably going to trade Davis in the next three weeks, I would guess, if they can get any decent offer for him. But I don't feel like they're that far away when I watch them. I feel like they're in these games against these teams.

And part of the problem is they're relying on somebody who just turned 19 to be this decisive playmaker at the end of the games. They can't figure out the point guard spot. Nemhard's like clearly a ninth-tenth man, but defensively he really hurts someone who's out there. They can't figure out how to put in that spot. I don't know when Kyrie comes back. The plan is still available for them, potentially.

And you could talk yourself into a world with Kyrie coming back and then being a 10 seed. And who knows? I just don't know if that makes sense. It doesn't. I mean, they own their own pick, Bill. They're sitting here at 13 and 23. I love Cooper Flag. I'm dropping another big piece on him this week on the ringer.

I've been studying Dallas. And like from a front office perspective, they own their own pick. this year. They don't really for the next few. This is a deep draft. They're sitting here at 13 and 23. They've already lost lively. You're looking down I-35 at San Antonio. You're looking at Houston. You're looking to OKC. Oh, my God. You have a, and this is what I wrote in that piece. It's a draft right now. I said, like, there's two kinds of bad teams in league. There's a kind of team that doesn't have a direction like Chicago. And then there's a team like Dallas that's blessed with, you know, Cooper Flag and Derek lively. And that at least gives you,

a path forward. And I say the clear move here is to go to the bottom for Dallas, however they get there, and go get another guy next to Cooper and lively and start there. And see what you can get for PJ, see what you can get for Gafford, maybe see what you can get for AD, let Kyrie take his time coming back. I think that's such an obvious path forward, but I don't think this current Dallas leadership is thinking that way. Interesting. Because they're a good trade machine. team, they have multiple guys that other teams would want. Like PJ Washington, reasonable contract, right? He's around 15, 16.

Anybody could go grab him and put him in a rotation and you would need him. Gafford's another one. Plug and play. I worry about the lively piece and just him long term from a health standpoint. Because I think that was one of the things people were worried about with him coming out of high school and college. And now he's hurt again. And then I'd also worry if I were them about. about Cooper Flag coming to the Celtics in four years.

I think that's a real threat. Like, tank, but don't tank too hard. His whole family's in Maine and their house is covered with Celtics stuff and his mom is probably the biggest female Celtics fan in New England. So I'd worry about them just a whiff. Yeah, it's interesting. But just from a team building perspective, they have to look at it, man. It's just the writings on the wall.

But what's really interesting and you'll love this too, they currently have co-interims. They have sort of Mark Cuban in a quasi-involved role again. The current owner, it's just who would make the decisions, Bill, for a team like this to be aggressive at the deadline one way or another. An emotionally scarred team, by the way, that probably doesn't ever want to make another decision. Yeah, that's not irrelevant.

Like, they are going to be pretty gun-shy about big trades, right? Because they don't want to repeat the disaster that they just lived through in 2025, again in 2026. I just, if I was a Mavericks fan, I'd probably have to see a therapist like twice a week to get through the last year, even though it all ends up with Cooper Flagg. Right.

That is incredible to watch and is doing things at an age that is about as unusual as it gets. I just, the question for me with Davis, what is he worth actually versus oh it's anthony davis he's worth this it's like is he what is the from a wear and tear standpoint from the fact that uh the ringers rich paul will probably want an extension for him um that's a big point i just don't know what teams are actually giving up for him on top of the fact that it's impossible to make a trade for a 50

million dollar guy anymore so you know i just what is that what's that Carfax report looking for him when you get it in? It's like, oh, 132,000 miles. I thought this was going to be like 88. I didn't realize they changed the engine. He's taught me more about abductor strains than I've cared to know in my life. I was. I didn't know what that was. And then Anthony Davis, but yeah, he, if you tell me he's healthy, he helps every team. Like, if the Celtics got him, he fills a lot of gaps. But with the CBA, And the trade rules. I'm just, yeah, we'll talk about their front court, I'm sure, in a minute.

But it's hard to trade them in the regular season period. It's harder to trade them when your front office has co-interims. And your owners are still trying to figure out what's going on here. I just don't think they get it done. I could be wrong. But I just don't think they have the leadership in place to pull that off right now. We'll take a break and then we'll hit the next 21 teams. The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by Fandole Football Fans.

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1888-78-9-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to by Apple Watch. So how's that New Year's Resolution looking? You're going to crush the gym? You're going to inch into Quitters Day territory? What's your plan? Because that's a real thing. The second Friday of January,

it turns out most of us, we throw in the towel by then, but not this year. Not if you got an Apple Watch. Apple Watch keeps you locked in. You've got the daily movement and activity rings, achievement streaks, goal tracking. It's like having a coach on your wrist.

So if you're on the edge of giving up, don't. This is the year we quit quitting. Let's do this. Apple Watch made to motivate you. Find out more at Apple.com slash Apple Watch series 11, iPhone 11, or later required. All right, the can't quit yet group continues with Memphis at 15 and 20. I don't have a lot to say here other than I was on the record as not loving the Jaron Jackson extension. Yeah.

I still think when you're talking about paying that much money for somebody, I just need a little more. You know, ironically, I feel this way about Jimmy Butler in Golden State. Jimmy Butler are a player I like, but for $54 million a year, it's just too much money in a league where you really can only afford to have one or two guys making that much on your team. I don't know what they do with Jha. Every once in a while, I get a text from somebody being like,

heard so-and-so is interested in job like really and then nothing happens he looks great when he looks great um the jaron jackson thing though that's the most interesting thing you know basketball isn't baseball you can't just plug and play these guys into any team and and kind of know what you're going to get he looked great defensively when stephen adams was there sort of collecting rebounds yeah clogging up the paint and that freed him up team USA when he we tried to use him at the five. It just wasn't good. He needs like a bigger, stronger traditional five to really be the defensive impact that we've seen him be. And then there's also giant red flags on the other end of the court bill. He's arguably the worst finishing big man in the league right now. He

does this thing where he tries to drive the ball, almost like Janus from the top. And it just never works. He gets halfway there. And then it just can't finish. So I'm with you. That is looking awkward. Maybe Zach Eadie is the guy next to him and it all clicks in. Right. We can't keep him on the court. I mean,

they're the coward pick. Right. They draft well. Yeah. And ironically, need a point guard and have one. Right. But I have no idea what we're getting out of that guy going forward.

And, you know, if he's not going to be as reckless as he used to be, I don't know what's left if he can't. He's not like a great shooter. And the league is just way better. We're more explosive. Everybody has a good guard. And like Trey Young, not to cut off the Portland sideway, but like, like Trey Young, the league is just a little too woke these days for a one-way offensive guard who's going to be just a weak link on the defensive end that smart teams will just attack over and over and over again. You have to be an exceptional offensive player if you're going to bring that little to the defensive end.

We just have so much more talent that I don't. I don't even know, all you have to do is just go through bat. I was looking at the 06 Lakers and how Kobe, I think he finished fourth and MVP. I voted for him that year. And he averaged 35 a game. His best four teammates, which I had kind of forgotten. No Laker fan has forgotten this, but I forgot it. His best four teammates were Lamar Odom, who was good.

Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton. That was his team. Like three of those guys would not be in rotations for three-fourths of the teams we have now. Would not like play minutes at all. And, you know, as the league evolved over the next 20 years and you could get away with the Tray Young in like 2017 when we didn't have a ton of scoring. Now we do. We have teams averaging 124 points a game. Yeah, it's a great point.

And we also have these young buck coaches that we were describing earlier that know how to exploit every week length. that you put on the court on your defense. Like, that's the other thing. Tactically, we know how to get Trey Young on an island and attack it. And I think that's the other thing that's happened. Well, that's the problem with Porter. Right. Trying to win a title and you get Porter, you're in the same position Denver was in

where he's just going to be thrown into every screen and every pick and roll, and he's going to be the guy they pick on. So his offense has to be awesome to offset that. Portland, number 20. 17 and 20 somehow, even though Scoot-Hannerson haven't seen him. Drew Holiday got hurt pretty early. Avdi is a 25-7-7 guy and really should get thrown into all the terrible things that have happened to the Wizards this century list.

I think giving up on that dude when he was that good. I want to mention because they beat the Celtics. It was the only game on the road trip, the Celtics lost, and I watched it. I think Klingan's terrific. Right. I really like him as a big guy. I liked him in the draft. I thought both him and Eadie went maybe a couple spots too late

because it's so where the league was going. I just like these big guys that can rebound and defend the rim. He killed the Celtics. And it was the only mistake Missoula made on the whole road trip was he went small in the last three minutes and Klingan killed them, got a big offensive rebound and putback. But I think they really got something with him. I like their assets. I don't know what I do if I'm Portland.

I might try to like kind of zag the other way maybe. And like this is a team, maybe this is a team that takes a flyer on one of these dudes that are available. Yeah, I mean. Lamello, Trey Young type guys. I think Trey Young, yeah, that they have to be looking at that. They're 17 and 20. They're in the wrong place in the standings.

The, you know, the league punishes that record at the end of the year. If that's where you're going to be, here is your prize. You get nothing. and look, they've beaten O KC this year. They've beaten the Spurs in San Antonio. They beat the Celtics. They show glimpses. Tiago, I like Tiago as a head coach.

Remember, they had a crisis in the coaching staff, unprecedented crisis. His house was on Redfin. Oh, really? Billups is over. Yeah, there was an article about how he's selling his house. This story is grim. Like, that coach is not coming back. Is close to him going to move in there?

Do you think? He should talk to them about it. Yeah, he'd maybe grab the Billups house. Probably a good poker room in there. I like where Portland's at. I'd be interested to see if they took a swing on somebody. Could also be an Anthony Davis team, by the way. They're in play for a bunch of stuff from a contract standpoint and a little tough.

But Klingin and Avdia, they have some good guys. And Kamara, we didn't mention. They have some guys that like number 19, Milwaukee. They're 16 and 20. They're 14 and 8 when Yannis plays. They have seven guys averaging 10. 10 points a game. They have Rollins and Kevin Porter at 36 points a game combined, which is one of those

when you're going through the stats. You're like, wait, what? Yeah. I'm still in on this Bucks team. I'm the last one. I'm out. And it has nothing to do with that I like, Doc. I just think Janus is that good.

And I still, and I don't think the East is good. And I'm still just, I'm not officially closing the door on them in any capacity yet. They're not going to trade Janus, so it's not happening. I am so frustrated with this team. I love this team about five. years ago and then slowly watch that deteriorate transaction after transaction, coaching change after coaching change. And here we are, dude, one of the crazy stats of the year, though, is this is the best shooting

team in the NBA, the Milwaukee Bucks. And I- That's why I'm still in. Janus and shooting is something. That is something, Bill. That's a good position to take. I just don't think like this Ryan Rollins thing. And it's just, it's so frustrating. I used to be Drew Holiday or even like Eric Bloodsofer for crying out.

They used to have, like, better players next to Yannis, Chris Middleton, of course, Brooke Lopez. Like, it's just sad to see the supporting cast. I'm as big of a Yonis guy as you'll find in the media. I love him. And it's just sad to see what they've surrounded him with. Well, they surrounded him with shooting. And Kuzma.

The Kuzma trade is the one that killed him. Because he's untradable. I know they had to save some luxury tax last year. but you'd have middle as an expiring this year. You'd actually have the flexibility to go get somebody and they can't because Kuzman doesn't make enough money. Number 18, the Klipper is a team that I've seen in person a couple times recently.

13 and 22 now. I was mailing my betting thread with Sal and House and Hensch. I was mailing them Clippers division odds when they were 200 to 1 on Fandul. And now they are 45 to 1, and I still like it. I don't like anyone in that division, except for one team we're going to talk about later. but Hardin's having quietly a really good offensive season again.

He's like 25, 8, and 7 or something. And then Kauai until Jalen Brown came in on Saturday night. Punched him right in the mug. But Kauai's looked athletically as good as I've seen him the entire time in the Clippers. They had Derek Jones come back, who then got hurt. But they feel like they figured out how to use John Collins finally. Yeah. The first 15 games, it was like, why?

is this guy in the team? What is he? And now they've figured that part out. They had a nice win against the Warriors last night, but not counting them out either because they have no incentive to not be good. Like, they have to be good. Yeah, it's been a bad few weeks for OKC. We'll talk about that later. But nobody's talking about one of the reasons why the Clippers are winning. And that's bad for their next year's draft status, the OKC Thunder, that is. Kauai Leonard, I had one friend at the NBA tell me for a team say this is the best he's played since Toronto

the stretch of games. I agree with that. He looks awesome and I know your guys went in there and won that game and I was very impressive. We'll talk about that, I'm sure, in a minute. But Kauai Leonard, if he's going to play like this, too, the clippers are going to be good. And if Hardin's going to play like this,

the clippers are going to be good. Those are big ifs, especially with Kauai's availability. But yeah, just look at his numbers. scoring 30, 35, 40 on a routine basis. And maybe more important, he's playing his ass off on defense, Bill. Playing his ass off and very, like, angry, competitive. Which is the scariest Kauai, dude.

Like when we had him in San Antonio, it was like when he would get like that in that Memphis series, I know we even take that for data series, he would go to this place where it was just like an eighth grader playing against fourth graders and just be meaner than everybody and take the ball. That's what we're seeing. I don't know if it's sustainable, but the clippers look better than the 13 and 22 record next to their name. I agree. So if you look at the win total on Fandall right now, they're over under is 38 and a half. So they're 13 and 22. So that means they'd have to be a little bit over 500. The thing that interests me about them, they're under pick. So they want to be good. Right. They actually have some trade stuff. They have a lot of trade stuff.

stuff like I think they're in play for a Davis trade possibly right they could add up Collins is 26.5 and expires after the year Zubatz is at 181 Bogdanovich is expiring at 16 Lopez is expiring at 8.7 and Batum is expiring at 5.6 they could put together any type of trade so they could go get a 40 million dollar guy 45 50 whatever it is and make a play on a distressed asset if they on. And I'm just, I'm interested to see how that goes. I thought for sure this would, they were going to make a play on, on, uh, Trey Young or one of these guys. I guess Trey would make sense because you already have Hardin, but just one of these distressed asset Max guys are close to Max. But what if they, what if they, uh, decided they were going to try to

trade James Hardin. What if they, what if they wanted to really go after it? I think that's something I heard around the league this week, too, is like Hardin might, might, uh, be in some of these conversations. I'm not reporting anything, but look, they have to look at it. It wouldn't surprise me after Saturday because the Celtics knocked him down once, and we never heard from him again in that game. I think he's at the point of his career where you just have to hit him a couple times. Trade machine crew. I probably should have the quippers in there. Yeah. Number 17, Atlanta, the season's all over the map. The trade thing kind of burned out. Risa Shea has been really bad. I'm not giving up on him, but he's been bad.

And them taking him over Castle, I think, is getting really, really tough now. I thought Castle should have been first in the draft. That one's getting really hard now. If you're a Hawks fan, you just got to be like, I didn't go further than that Bill Simmons. I think if you look at the first three or four picks from that draft, you're starting to see Reed Shepard pop a little bit. That was another guy they were looking at. But they couldn't take him, though. You can't take him when have trey right well they might not have tray soon and they could have reed shepherd so you know take the best player uh saar yeah so i think that draft class is starting to pop a little bit more

than i expected but not at that number one slot and you're right about risha shay and then poor zingas which was their big summer trade and he's still battling all his stuff the weird thing about this team other than them being 17 and 21 and i keep waiting for them to turn it around or which is not happening. And yet I can't count them out. They're getting this incredible Alexander Walker season. He's averaging 20.5 points a game. And is a crunch time guy for them sometimes

and is guarded in the other teams like one of their best players? And it's just like, so they, A plus signing there, probably a D minus F plus for the Risesche pick. The Porzingis is an incomplete. But I just would have thought if that Alexander Walker move hit like that,

How are you 17 and 21? They've had, obviously, there's clearly a chemistry issue there, right? I mean, the on-off numbers with Trey say it all, their defense is absolutely terrible as soon as Trey Young. But it shouldn't be terrible. Well, they have good defensive guys on the roster, but it's terrible.

Yeah, there's clearly a chemistry thing. And I think that's behind the scenes, the reason why we saw the news from Mark Stein. And then the previous report from Shams about them working with the agent. trying to find a new place. It's just clearly, I think, a chemistry thing. And the other sneaky part of it is porzengis.

Talk about big ifs like Anthony Davis. When that guy's out there, the hawks are good. It's actually more of a porzengis thing than a tray thing, I think, for them going forward. It's like, can they get any kind of regularity from porzengis? Because they could flip this around. If they get off a tray young and Porzingis is healthy, the Eastern Conference is there to be had. Zach did an entire podcast about it yesterday. The Hawks, I am not giving up on them by any means.

I intentionally didn't listen to Zach's podcast yesterday because I knew I was doing this today and I didn't want to be tainted with his opinions, with his northeastern opinions. It was an excellent podcast as obvious. I'm going to listen to it today. Golden State, 16. They're 19 and 18, tough loss last night.

They're getting an all-time Curry season. Curry's having his best year in three years he's almost at five three is a game I just think he's been really really good doesn't have that like I'm getting super tired I'm tired of caring everybody kind of vibe

yet which I think we'll probably have in a month what's interesting to me about them is their 20th in offense and so you think like oh they got to get a center or they got to do this and it's like they actually need scoring you know they're paying all this money for Jimmy Butler who's

17 and 19 a game. Draymond can't score. They have all these other bench guys that you don't know whether you're getting in. That's why I thought Porter would be an interesting one for them. If you're them and you're looking at how do we possibly ever the millionaires beat O'KC or San Antonio in a series, which Kerr went out of his way to say how impossible that was.

I disagree a little bit because they have Curry. I'm just going all in on offense. Yeah. I want to build a team that can outscore other teams and kind of do what the Celtics are doing. The Celtics are second in offense. It does make a lot of sense, but they're getting 130, 140 points a game.

I think they need to add scoring. Because you saw it last night. Curry fouled out. They had to run the last play for Butler. He ends up with a turnaround with Batum guarding him. It's an airball. They don't have a second guy who can create a shot. So that's what I would do.

What would you do? I mean, they have to throw bad money after bad money. I think continue to go after somebody like Janus or, Anthony Davis. I think that's what... Yeah, this is going to be too expensive, though. They can't do that. So maybe it's AD, but look,

I just don't think there's a path for them to get back to that group. Stefan Curry, look at the on-off numbers. It's almost Yokic-like the difference between the competence when Stefan is on the court on their offense versus just the sheer incompetence. As soon as he sits down, they turn into what would be the worst offense in the league, they brought in

Jimmy Butler, Bill, in part to stem that. And it's just not working. Al Horford hasn't clicked the way they expected that to. When you say he hasn't clicked, I mean, there's other stuff we could say there. Well, you can say it. Well, I think it's over.

Yeah. The one thing I've noticed with the Celtics, I was talking about, because I was glad I got to see them in person at the Clipper game. the difference of having Porzingis and Horford as two of the bigs that are playing a ton of minutes

versus what they have now with Ceda and Garza who on paper are much worse players right and with no experience make no sense but are better for the Celtics offensively because they set these big bulky picks

25 feet from the basket at the top of the key and the two guards and Jalen and Simons they all know how to use these guys And these guys are just, they're really hard to get around. And they create space and they roll, they know when to roll the basket. Their hands are up.

And they're just, it's just a better offense. And Horford, who didn't rebound. By the way, I love Al Horford. He was, you know, I wish he hadn't left the team twice. And I don't know why he left the team to go to a team that can't contend under the guys of contending. But he didn't rebound. He didn't get to the free throw line.

He didn't play all the time. These guys now, they play every game. they're young, they bang bodies, they're physical, they can overpower teams and the Seltz are just in a better spot. So I look at Horford for what this Warriors team needs. This Warriors team needs rebounding. They need consistency. They need guys who can play every day.

They need physicality. He doesn't give any of that stuff to them. No, the front court has been bad. And it's just, you know, Dremont is what he is. He's not going to get you rebounds. He's surprisingly great rim protector. He's going to facilitate offense. but they used to have Kavana Looney, you know.

They used to have, I mean, going way back, Bogut, like next to them. Right. And now it's just that character's not there. And of course, the Clay Thompson character is not there. And the non-staff minutes or a disaster. And that's really, I mean, you have to have a second score. This is like even the Celtics. Simon's, it doesn't happen every game, but he'll come in and he can take over a quarter.

Right. You know, he could get 13 and a half. It's just like a wild card variable on top of like the set stuff that they have every game. The Warriors don't even really have that. I don't even know like who their heat check guy is. Is it Will Richard? Like, who is it? Yeah, I don't know.

Buddy healed occasionally and then maybe. They don't know who it is. They never know game to game who they're going to get it from. They never know who the second score is. And Butler is just like he's going to go six for 11 every game. And that's kind of who he is at this point. us. I want to live in a world where Stefan Curry is the second guy before

he's done. I just want to live that he deserves somebody else to sort of be out there on the back to backs and he's resting and he doesn't have to do this. He's one of my favorite players of all time and it's just sad. Well, that world unfortunately is going to be the 2008

Olympic team. 16 Miami, 20 and 16 we can skip them. If only because then their fans can go, well, you skip Miami, motherfucker 14 Orlando 20 and 16

if I told you before the year Anthony Black is going to make a leap and be a guy who could actually be an end of the game you notice him guy and Orlando is going to be 20 and 16 what would you

were your action of Ben was there a bus crash there was some nerd community stuff about AB last year so I wouldn't have been totally shocked This is a disappointing 20 and 16. And to borrow a term from the sports guy himself,

it feels like the pistons of market corrected the Orlando Magic's place in the Eastern Conference hierarchy. I feel like Detroit sort of came in and became that top team of young, scrappy, defensive-minded guys. But I was early on what's going on with Palo. stuff and that got to aggregate. You were first. I felt like that you were the you kind of started it. It's not always a great place to be. I'll tell you. And you know that better than anybody. But yeah, Paolo's got to be more consistent. They still have a negative net rating when he's on the floor. Palos to be more consistent. He's shooting 26% from three. He's shooting 45% in a league where everybody's stats are way up. Like my fear with him. Yeah. And it's super early.

They can't do anything this year. He's a poison pill guy. They can't trade him. My fear for him, though, is I don't want him to turn into one of those early 2000s forwards that we had, the Sharif, Joanne Howard, Antoine Jamison, Antoine, these guys that they were in the low 20s with stats. Yeah. You kind of felt like they weren't ever going to make a shot in the last minute of a game, but the teams really deferred to them and you're just kind of a no man's land with them. I think it's in a little bit of play now with him. As young as he is, it's just my fear. Yeah, the league, as we talked about earlier, the league is sort of moving on and a different, you know, it's just a smarter league. And like these kinds of inefficiencies, these habits, these inefficient habits or these inability on defense, for Palo, it's a jump shooting problem. You can't take this many jumpers and be this bad at it and be a superstar. Those days are gone. There were times when you could do that. We're not doing that anymore. So he's got to get a better shot diet, pass it a little bit more. Or he's got to be a complimentary player. Right, that's what I'm, and he can do it.

And that's the most frustrating thing. And league history is full of these frustrating dudes. You know it better than me, guys who could be playmakers but insisted on being that scorer, that's where it's headed right now. And I just want to see him sort of wake up to, he is a very well-rounded talent. If their season goes terribly, they will be maybe a top three most fascinating summer team. Yeah. Because they'll be able to trade him in the summer.

And maybe they'll just decide, let's cash this asset in. Another team would decide, oh, my God, Palo's available and we're off. Number 13, we are now in the Pleasant Surprises category. Philadelphia at 19 and 15. 0.0.0 in clutch games. Yeah. I don't feel like I've ever seen them lose a clutch game until last night. Last night was ugly.

Denver, Denver's G-League team. Smoke them in overtime. Listen, we've talked about them a bunch in the past on this pod. I still think Maxi's been a first two NBA guy. I'm having trouble putting a ceiling on VJ at this point. I don't really know what I'm watching anymore. Initially, I thought it was like early Dwayne Wade, but now I'm like, this just might be Dwayne Wade.

He's great. Like, for real, this might be Dwayne Wade again. And then there are moments where you're like, is that not high enough of a ceiling? And I think Dwayne Wade is the top 30 guy. I'm not saying VJ is going to get there. I'm just saying there's moments where you're like, oh, my God. Right.

What was that? He had some big threes last night in that loss. But yeah, it's just, it feels to me like there's like this fun story in the back court and that sad story in the front court with this team. And it goes to the cap sheet too. It's like, hey, we're paying a lot of money for these sad dudes in the front court. And then we're paying like, we have cops. control on these incredibly fun young guards with Max.

But do you think Paul George has been that bad? Because I actually don't think he's been that bad in what I've seen. No, he's been fine. It's Davis, right? It's if he's out there, I'm happy. He's such a good defender still. He's such great instincts and he's such a veteran, but it's 18 games, Bill. He's played 18 games.

Here we go again. Yeah, I haven't minded what I saw. I think the most important thing that's happened with them, I don't know what happens with Embed. I mean, history will tell you where we know what it's going to. happen. But the most important thing that's happened is that it's Maxie's team at the end of these games now. Like yesterday, when they actually needed a basket in Regulation OT, everyone else goes to the side and Maxie tries to figure out what they're going to do. And I never thought Embed would,

you know, as long as he was on the court, I always felt like they would be trapped by this Embed thing. And I don't think they are anymore. I think they kind of know like this is now Maxi's team. Everybody gets it. So even just accomplishing that is huge, I think. Yeah, I agree. And like, he's the face of the team. If you look at the early returns in all-store voting, he's near the top. He's a superstar in the making. And then to your point about Vijay, it's like that's good. Like I said about Cooper earlier, it's like there's two kinds of teams. Those who have a clear future direction and those who don't. And like the Sixers have two of the best young guards in the NBA. And that's a great place to be. The Joelle MB situation, like he made some terrible plays down the stretch in that. Denver loss, which was one of the more shocking results of recent NBA. Like, just, just the, the, who was the best player on that Nuggets team last night, Pickett? Bruce Brown and Pickett. Yeah.

It was a fascinating game. I watched the whole second half, and I'm like, what's going out here? Just kept waiting for Denver to die because I'm rooting against Philly, obviously from a Celtic standpoint, but, um, listen, whatever happens, the fans love these two guys and everything else will shake out. They're fine. Number 12, Toronto, 22 and 15. There were a couple points last week. I felt like the season was going to tilt on them and go the other way and they pulled out one game and then all of a sudden they seem fine. I'm still, to me, they feel like a regular season team to me because of the bench, which in the playoffs, I just think is way harder to

be sustainable. But over the course of 82 games, when you have four or five guys that can come in and swinging a quarter. It's a little better. But they've definitely been a little better than I thought. I'm still dubious. It's a great step forward for them. Great step forward for them. Not as dubious as I am of this next team.

We're now in the Enigma's category number 11. The Lakers, 22 and 11 with a minus 0.2 rating. And they just, like, yeah, the Memphis game the other day. Memphis is, you know, taking it to them in the second quarter. They're up like 15 and coward who's killing them gets hurt, right? And then the Lakers turn it. I feel like they've had five of those this year. I'm just going to say this is not a 22 and 11 team.

I don't think they think they're a 22 and 11 team. JJ seems like he's ready to start drinking on the sidelines during these games. The vibes are just very strange. Yeah, they have, I'm looking at their last 15 games. I mean, they have won over their expected statistical profile all year long. Like, over the last 15 games, they're 8 and 7. That's pretty good. But their net rating is negative 5, and they have the worst defense in the Western Conference outside of Utah in that time period.

Like, they are, I don't know how they're doing it. Obviously, when they win, they have some great offensive weapons to credit. Yeah. But, dude, when you see the defensive numbers of the. Los Angeles Lakers, this screams lottery to me. I mean, when you're down there on defense, it's very hard to even make the playoffs. They are maybe the best shooting team in the NBA, and they get to the free throw line more than anybody.

But even with those two incredible things, I just said, they're 500. They model like a 500 team, and somehow, to your earlier point, they're 22 and 11. Their last 15 games, they're minus 4.9 offensive rating, which is fifth worst in the league. The teams behind them are Sacramento, Indiana, Utah, and Washington. Yeah. Like, think about that. New Orleans has a better net rating with them. Defensively, they are 29th in the last 15 games.

Like, this is like, you're losing any playoff round you play with how bad they are on defense. And they don't seem really happy either. So there you go. Number 10, Cleveland. I feel like we've talked about them every week on the pod. I just want to see all their guys playing together for three weeks before I'd figure out what. And that includes the role guys. Like, let me just see the healthy calves for three weeks before I decide.

Three games over 500 is stunning to me, though, plus 2.4 rating. Okay. Number nine, the maybe sleeper. Mm-hmm. The Phoenix Suns, the 21 and 15. 1.7 net rating over and over again winning these close games

or coming close to winning these close games or just being in close games they've been one of the league past MVPs of the year they feel like they have even though his stats are basically the same as last year

they brought back Booker where he's in he's bought into everything they're doing that was great considering they reinvested in him the Dylan Brooks thing's been really fun. They got two games from Jalen Green all year. Not sure that matters.

How fluky is this team? Not fluky. I think they're the Jacksonville Jaguars of the current NBA season. I don't think any of us saw this coming. They have a new coach, a new identity. I think Dylan Brooks deserves more credit than any person on the roster for sort of changing the brand of this team that you and I watched together last year. in Austin that looked like they hated one another.

They looked like they didn't like their coach. And some people at ESPN are friends over there said this is the worst predicament of any team in the league by far. It probably was. And I'm not roasting those people. I'm just saying like that's what people were saying around the NBA. And here they are. It's one of the best stories in the league in a year where there's some great stories.

You know, Gillespie has been great. Goodwin is great. Jordan Aud has brought this offensive. You mean Goodwin? the Lakers waived. Dude, you could make a pretty good team. To keep Ronnie, James, and Dalton Connect. They waived Jordan Goodwin.

Zubotches on that team. That can't card anybody. That's unbelievable. Julius Randall. Oh, my Lord. Yeah, the former Laker All-Stars. Oso, a big leap for him. He closed games.

But I'll say, you know, I watched their game pretty closely at the end last night. Tough back-to-back. By the way, we should mention, they beat OKC. And that was another sort of, like, oh, This is not fluky. Then they go to Houston on a back-to-back bill. And that's what you would call an either-or game in the NBA. Durant hits one of the best shots of his entire career in the regular season,

just to end that game. Awesome moment for him. Awesome moment for the Rockets. But from a Phoenix perspective, you had to be pretty good. That's a tough back-to-back. And you beat the thunder and then hang with the Rockets until the very end. So, I mean, I think it's all about Ott and Dylan Brooks, but you're right. Booker is the leader of this team.

Now, the last thing I'll say, how did that game end? Everybody knows they need to get the ball to Booker. The secondary offensive option there, Dylan Brooks, that doesn't really scare anybody in those kinds of moments. So going forward, I think they need one more threat on offense beyond Booker to get to that next level of Western Conference. They might have it. It might be Jalen Green. Yeah, that's fair.

Let's see it. I watch them. I see a lot of the same stuff. I think it's the most stunning thing of the year. I was under on them for 31 and a half games. They're exceptionally well coached. Right. He's awesome.

Every game, everybody seems like they know where, it's the same thing with the Celtics. They know where they should be, what their role is, they're bought in. Everybody gives a shit, which is another thing I talked about a couple weeks ago with, I think with legs about

the secret to the Celtics success this year is every single guy in the team has, something to prove, I think you could say the same for Phoenix. So you go down the line, every single guy has something approved. Brooks is mad. They traded him. Gillespie wants to show he's a player. Mark Williams got traded the Lakers. They pulled out of the trade. He's in fuck you mode. Charlotte trades them. But you go on down the line and all these guys are bought in and have something to prove, which, you know, during a regular season matters. But, you know, the fact that they can defend with guys that are just fringe guys

that a lot of teams could have had. But the Booker piece is the main piece to me. They have somebody at the end of these games, the same thing in the Celtics have with Jalen. They have somebody that can go toe to toe with whoever the other guy's best player is. Philly has that with Maxi. You have to have one of those guys now

because you get into these four minutes left situations. And if you don't have the guy to match baskets, you're going to lose. Yeah. And it's almost like this mystical thing. the year-over-year vibe differential is one of the greatest I've ever seen, if not the greatest. I can't think of another one where it just went from so toxic to the exact opposite of toxic. Like you're saying, that defensive identity, the rebounding, that cohesion, that give a shittness.

And you've got to look at Jordanot. Brian Gregory is sort of reinvented the front office. And then Dylan Brooks on the floor, as I mentioned, just talk about a give a shit guy. like every second and every game, maybe too much. But it's contagious, and I just love their identity. Yeah, and the Celtics have a bunch of those guys, too, and I don't think it's an accident to compare those two teams. You have guys that shouldn't feel like they're as good as everyone on the other team,

but they do. Like, if the Celtics play OKC, they're going to think they should beat OKC. Does that make sense on paper? No. Phoenix beats OKC two nights ago. It makes no sense on paper. I just like where they're at. We're moving into the contenders now, number eight in New York,

which is the flip side of this, where New York looks like they're already tired of each other. After they won the NBA Cup, it's like, that wasn't the title guys. That was the Cup. I mean, I won't be the first person to make this point or the last. It really feels like there's some hardcore evidence now that you don't want to be in the semifinals of the NBA Cup if you care about this season.

You're better off just getting out of there. This has ruined every team every year that's been in there. Well, the second place finisher in the NBA Cup is often, And it's often a – the stepping stone is finishing second. Yeah, not winning, though. Winning is bad. It's true. And I know you probably know this or have it at your fingertips,

but I think there's still the favorites to win the Eastern Conference, right? They are. I wouldn't bet on them, though. When I look at the West and the East, I would take OKC versus the field still in the West. And I know we have to address some stuff going on with the Thunder. But I am certainly taking the field over the Knicks in the East, particularly the Pistons, who I think are a superior team,

Exhibit A last night on the basketball court, but also your team, which I don't know if you're doing the reverse jinks, I think that's the best story in the NBA right now ahead of the Suns. And I think the Celtics are going to be a real threat, and wouldn't it be so great for Celtics fans, to see that Knicks team again in the playoffs. And get another. MSG.

Yeah, like it would be a great thing. But from the Knicks perspective, dude, the defense isn't good enough right now. The defense isn't good enough right now. You can pick on towns. You can pick on Bronson. You compare that to what's going on in Detroit, where they just have the best events in the conference. If they're not shooting the lights out, and when I saw them beat San Antonio, that core

group of five guys is one of the best offensive groups that you can have on the court. The problem's on the other end. And is that really a championship level defense? For me, I'm sorry. I think the answer is no. Multiple guys to pick up. Right. Point of attack and rim protect.

Mitchell Robinson changes the geometry for them. But point of attack, just like the Lakers, we can pick on you there and you don't protect the rim particularly well. What are you doing good on defense? I feel like I ask this question every three weeks, but would you think about Davis? for Towns? They love the Kentucky guys. That's an interesting one.

I don't think so. A couple weeks ago, the answer was no, because Towns was having a good year and Davis had him proven he could even stay in the court. Now I think it's a little more reasonable. What about the honest stuff? Do you think that's in play for them?

I just don't think it's conceivable this season. Yeah. I don't think, I just don't think it works from a, from a trade machine standpoint. You would take the field over the next in the Eastern Conference? I would take, if you just gave me New York on one end, and Detroit, Boston, Cleveland on the other end, I would take Detroit, Boston, Cleveland. Yeah, I think it's more realistic one of those three teams win from what we've seen the last two weeks. Yeah, we're aligned. I mean, by the way, we should say the Knicks have a four-game losing streak at the exact time the Celtics have surged. The bigger issue for me with them is there's two teams in the East

that I think are just bad matchups for them, Detroit and Boston. Boston has all these dudes to throw at Brunson. And when Tatum, I don't know what happens when Tatum comes back, how many minutes he's going to have, but I think they like the matchup against the Knicks. And then Detroit is kind of built to beat the Knicks, you know, and they have a million guys to throw at them. They're tougher than the Knicks front court.

And that's just going to come down to how good is Mitchell Robinson I'm going to be in that series, I think, if it's Nick's Pistons. We saw it last year. We saw it last year. He's won the series. New York is as good as they were last year, but Detroit is much better. And Detroit almost took them out last year, arguably could have without a bad call. Duren's at a different guy.

Yeah. I'd be a little word if I'm the Knicks, but we've learned over the years. Don't get to anything one way or the other when it's game 36. I don't think it's a good sign where they look now. I can see them turning it around. but you made the key point. They have two guys on defense you can just pick on. Number seven, Minnesota, 23 and 13.

I'd still continue to think they're underrated because how Gideon is and they know who they are and I'm sure they'll figure out some sort of point guard some way to make that a little better. The only point I had on this team was, I think Randall and DeFincenzo for Towns was just a great trade. It's interesting to have a trade that was that big that a year plus later,

I feel like both teams would still do it. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that's a good point. Where it's like they would just no hesitation, still say yes, which usually you have a trade and then a year later it's like, eh, like the Warriors with Jimmy Butler, I know they didn't give up that much, but would they, are they as excited about that trade?

Seven months later is probably not, right? Right. You go through and most teams are like, ah, I don't know. Celtics number six, we talked about, I've talked about them too much on the pod, but I just think, I said to Sal on Sunday, this thing with Tatum coming back whenever he comes back, trying to fit into how different the team is now and how different they play and how much runs through Jalen and the two guards. They don't walk it up.

They're always like trying to make decisive moves. There's a lot of movement. And Pritchard and White, and then Simons, when he comes in, have the ball a lot. And this was a team that was very Tatum dependent, walking it up, trying to decide people standing around. And I just don't think that's the team anymore. And the two bigs, the way that they're, as I mentioned earlier, were able to screen for the guys' 23 feet from the basket.

Like, he's never really had that before. So on paper, you're like, just replace Shireman and some Hauser and some might not and replace some minutes and just put Jason Tatum in there. They're going to be better. But, you know, I need to see it. Well, we've seen it, like some stunning stats. Like the way I look at the game, in the last 15 games, they have the best record in the NBA. They have the best net rating in the NBA.

They have the best offense in the NBA. And they have some really good wins. And here's, they've gone toe to toe with almost all the good teams at this point. Yeah, they do. And they look good. And that's what I'm saying. Like, the way I look at the game, it's like, why am I supposed to think that New York is better than the. than this team.

Certainly recently, they haven't been. And then the most compelling player in the next four months in the NBA is Jason Tatum. Like, I just told you their record over the last 15 games.

The foundation is so much better than any of us thought it was five months ago. I'm so impressed with the depth of the Boston Celtics, the next man up thing, the Spanish rookies they're finding, Kada's ability to be so

much more energetic, Missoula's ability to reimagine the offense around Jalen Brown in a high usage role. And Derek White, who's not shooting it particularly well, but doing everything else perfectly. Dude, like, if you're getting your first team all-MBA guy back on top of this, it becomes the most interesting story in the second half of the NBA season. Yeah, it's funny. I look at it. I really miss his rebounding in his defense. I thought he was a great rebounder. especially when you go against some of these teams that are bigger. I think he was, like, 11th of rebounding last year. It's the most underrated part of his game.

He's a massive. He was 10 rebounds a game. And in playoffs, that goes up to 12. So I think, like, just getting the rebound and the defense and how smart of a kind of just fit into the whatever's happening player he is, just getting that. We don't need him to score 30 a game on this team anymore. He needs to fit in with the other stuff, but he's Jason Tatum. He was third in the MVP last year.

and we've never really seen a situation like this. There's also Jalen went up a level. And I think from running an offense through a team, I mean, I'm sorry, running an offense through a guy, Jalen's as good as Tatum is right now with running an offense through him. The way he's able to use his teammates and the shots that he's able to get, he's moved to the same level as Tatum. So it's a good problem to have, but it is a problem.

And it's another look. It's like when the Spurs could win with Timmy, on the post and then run Manu off the bench and he's slashing and they're playing like a different game. This whole like Spanish pick and roll stuff they have going on with J.B. It is another sort of look that their offense is completely different. And then when Tateham comes back, they can they can throw different looks. It's almost like having different pitchers to throw at a batter.

Well, one thing I was thinking was when they do the five out, which they've done a lot more of this year, and they have, it'll be. like Hauser and, you know, somebody else in the corner, Simon's in the corner, whoever, with Jalen kind of running it, and then maybe a guy coming up or, but just him,

him as the focal point, trying to either find people or shoot a two. You put Tatum in the corner now, which they never really did last year. It was always like kind of, Jalen would be the one that was always in the corner. You moved Tatum as a supporting guy playing off Jalen. We never really saw that enough.

Even in the finals when they were kind of doing the dueling banjos thing, they didn't have the five out the way it works now i don't think to your earlier point like imagine jason as that crashing rebounder coming off the weak side when when jalen's running this current action like he is such a down right he's never got to do that this is like i said jalen said him picks could he set him like the garza type picks i don't even know if he'd be good at that we never saw it so i the key is they need to get him back if he's going to come back um beginning of march I think, to see it kind of work for two months,

ease him back, play him 15, 16 minutes a game, and just make it additive. Don't make it seem like, all right, you're back, you're Jason Tatum again. Like, I don't think they can do that. I don't think they will. I have two questions for you that I'm sure your audience wants to hear you answer

about the Boston Celtics. The first one is, what are the streets talking about with Jason, the timetable with this thing? It's always been All-Star Break March range. and I think they're rightfully super hesitant about it. I think the thing that's changed. It was funny watching him at the Clipper game on Saturday. He goes to all the games.

He's part of the team. He's coming back. Like, there's no question. I think what was interesting was they were going to be in a position a little like Indiana right now. That was the worst case scenario this season. Yeah. Well, what happens if we're 10 and 29 and he's ready to come back

and you kind of have to be like, no, dude, hold off. That's completely flipped. Now it's like this team's an actual contender. So, of course, he's coming back. And what would be the point of him not coming back? If he's ready to play, it's a 10-month injury. Why would he want to wait until October to play basketball again? He's in his 20s, you know?

So he's coming back. Well, that's my second question then. If this guy comes back and he's 85% of Jason Tatum, do they immediately become the favorites to win the Eastern Conference? or is it like a Jordan and number 45 jersey era? I don't think they're the favorites. I think we've seen this too many times with guys coming back. The most famous one, somebody sent me an email about this.

I apologize. I can't remember the person, but about the 04 Kings. It became Page's team because Chris Weber was hurt. And the Kings fans were like, oh, when Chris Weber, as soon as he comes back, this is going to be awesome. And then Chris Weber came back and it screwed them up. Now, Chris Weber was broken down at that point of his career for the most part. I think that was the difference.

Tatum's not going to be broken down. He's going to be healthy. But, you know, it's not perfect. There's been scenarios where guys have come back and it hasn't gone the way people thought. Well, let me say it for you because I made Zach say the spurs were in pristine shape the day after Christmas. And I'll say it for you. I think the Boston Celtics are in a very, very strong. position if they get 80% of Jason Tatum in March.

The one thing that I think is unquestionably changed is they were definitely going to try to get under the first apron and completely reset everything and try to figure out how to trade Simons and do those trades like Simons for Malik Monk and you save $6 million and you pay somebody to take Tillman and that kind of stuff. They're not thinking that way anymore. And Simons, if you're doing six million of the year, he's in the running now. Right. I mean, Simons is like 14 points a game, and he comes in.

He's getting more and more comfortable each. So I don't, I think the saving money thing's gone. And they have a new owner who hasn't ever rooted for a good team before, Chisholm, who everybody speaks highly of. It's not like he's going to be going, yeah, yeah, no, can we just cut another $6 million? Like, this guy's like, holy shit, we're good. I thought I bought 11. Number five, Detroit, 27 or 9.

We talked about them. To be interesting, the big thing for them is give it a year or go for it. Houston number four, 22, and 11, a little bit in the same issue of they could get wacky and just do like Fred Bambliet and a contract and some of their picks and just say fuck it and try to get Trey or John Moran or what are these dudes just to, but I don't think they will. I think they'll, I think they're good. They won that tough game last night. This is kind of where I thought they would be.

overall, but I've been shocked at how competent their offense has been without Fred Van Fleet. Yeah. But the offensive rebounding, the historic stuff, it bears mentioning. It's like they're just punishing people. I know Schengu's missing some time, but Stephen Adams is still just the most dominant offensive rebounder in the league. And it gives them an identity. And like you said, what did they lack last year, Bill, the guy who could make the exact

shot that Kevin Durant made last night? he I do my all NBA three teams every every week just to update it so I have it in my head and I think Durant's played his way into the 13th I think there's two rockets that you would have to put in the top 50 now and I think Booker's on there too would be the other guy Thompson looked electric last night too like Thompson's on the bubble Thompson's another one where it's like oh man you might have to throw the stats out with him number three San Antonio I mean, we've talked about them on the ringer all over the place the last couple of weeks. We'll see.

It's, is, what, am I getting Wemby healthy in April, May, and June? And there's no way to know. No way to know. But I just want to see him play for three straight months, please. The biggest development there is, even if he's not there, they're a good team, which is crazy. I was out on the spurs for a playoff spot this year in large part because I didn't believe without Wembe they could walk and chew gum at the same thing. time. They've done more than that. Foxes fit in and then like the young guards castle has made the leap. Dylan Harper, I don't know which of these two guards I like more. I go back and forth.

I love them. And then Harrison Barnes, Champany, Keldon Johnson. This, Luke Cornett, this is just Cornett signing was great. It was great. And Harrison Barnes is giving them. He's the Celtic we miss the most out of all the guys that left. Well, do you think the Celtics should get in the market for a Gafford or another big. Like if I think they're going to compete this year, that front court as good as Kate has been, Garza, it's a nice story. Do you want to bolster that front court a little bit? I think there's buyout potential with somebody.

I don't, I'd be really surprised that they did a trade. Yeah. I don't, sometimes when it's going really, I think Phoenix is probably in the same boat when you have something really special going on with a group of guys that just like playing basketball with each other. I don't, I don't want to fuck with it. You saw Cleveland do it last year when they were playing great. And then they did that Hunter trade.

And they've kind of never been in the same sense. It's not his fault, but it messed with their chemistry. Yeah, Jerome was a big part of their vibe. Yeah. One thing I'll say about San Antonio, because I did a lot of research on them. And I was trying to figure out if I'd want to make a move or not if I was them. Keldon Johnson's like there was a huge piece about him last week. Celdon Johnson's like the emotional fulcrum of their team.

They love him. like he's he's like the guy in that team and it's like if you're making a big trade for somebody with them him and barns have to be in it and i think those are two huge locker room guys for them i don't see them doing anything kelden was like this neither here nor their guy for a few years and it's an incredible sort of teaching lesson because what happened bill was like they just got deeper he slid down a notch or two in their rotation and then became like the energy guy and one of the best sort of energetic off-the-bench rebounders in the league uh and And just this, I'm going to be

Mr. Effort, like P. Kenneth Farreed. And it brings the arena just loves him. I don't think you could move him. They're another team that I just don't think you mess with this chemistry right now. Couldn't agree more unless Trey Murphy became available and then you'd have to really probably think about it

at that point. Denver number two, 24 and 12, and everyone on the team is hurt. And the only thing they really say about this is hey, I miss Yokic, but just miss them. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like the weatherman, the sports guy and anchorman. I just miss your scent,

Mr. Musk. Maybe you and actually get an apartment together. I just miss Yokic. I just miss him. There's like a five-year subgenre of the Simmons podcast where you talk about M.B. playing Yokic and M.B. ducking the smoke. And we missed that last night.

That would have happened last night. I know. I know. So we missed him. But, dude, there's a quirky chance here that this Denver team with all these injuries. This might be good for them. Stumbles into some depth for the long term. They're getting reps for dudes that wouldn't be playing otherwise.

Pickett's like the one that, man, I've always loved that guy, and he's such a sort of a five-tool player. And I'd love to see him find his way more into the rotation. Maybe, like, last night he was excellent in that win. But this is still the best offense in the league. did you see they're averaging almost 100 or before yokech got hurt it was almost 125 points a game just 125 points a game i didn't see that's why with some of these stats it's i i almost feel like we're heading toward where baseball hit in the mid 90s when the baseball stats for different reasons started to become crazy and you almost couldn't compare errors anymore it's like how am i

going to compare this to something in 1977, I feel if you actually go, like, you just go in basketball reference or wherever, and you just look at the points per game, all the guys, and all the guys averaging like 22 points a game, we're shooting 40% for three. It's like fucking bonkers. It's like 60 guys, it feels like. Dude, the one that I had in my notes, I'll go back to it, just because it makes this point, like, Khan Kineppel is hitting 44% of his threes on over eight per game. Like, that's one of the best three-point shoot. shooting seasons ever. He's a rookie, but it's like there's so much shooting talent now. This office efficiency is through the roof. And you're right. Like it's inflated some of the

numbers like Balco did back in the day for baseball. It really feels that way. Like Shaden Sharp is averaging 21.6 points a game. Right. Josh Giddy is averaging 19-9 and 9 on a bowl's team nobody cares about. It's just really hard to figure all this stuff out. So we agree on Denver. I think the only thing for them is if they fall past, they can fall past four. They can't fall on a 7, 8, 9, 10. I think they need to,

six has to be the basement for them if Yokic is actually out for a while. They're whatever. They don't care if they don't have home game sevens. They don't care about that. There's so much better than they were last year, if they're whole. Jamal Murray looks better.

They have a deeper group. Brown is getting a little bit better. I think the coaching staff's in a better spot. And they brought the thunder to the brink last year. So nobody wants to see them in the playoffs. If they end up at seven or eight or whatever, dude, like. Well, let's end on the thunder because we said this is going to be an hour or almost at an hour and a half.

Thunder 30 and seven, four and four in their last eight, 13.3 net ratings still, which is still number one. I have my theory for, I don't want to say what's wrong, but what's maybe a mildly alarming? What's your theory? Dude, I think the NBA changed on December 12th or 13th when the first Spurs win happened in Vegas. I think that changed the temperature in the Western Conference. A week later, Bill, this is sort of the canonical moment of the season. Finch, who hates the thunder, has publicly said he hates how the thunder play,

goes into that game in Minnesota, and he's ready to explode. And sure enough, he gets a chance, he gets ejected. And, you know, the thunder are six and six in their last 12. But I looked at the numbers, and the craziest thing I found is that Shagiel's Alexander, since that Spurs game, he's gone from the fifth most foul player in the NBA to the 31st most foul player in the NBA. His free throws are way down. His ability to draw fouls has magically decreased substantially since peaking before then.

And Jdub is the other thing. He has not clicked in with this group the way they expected. He was in my notes. So between SGA's sort of reduced free throw line activity and Jdub's lack of sort of cohesion with this group, simply put, this isn't the. juggernaut that I thought they were December 10th. This is not the juggernaut that was, what, 24

and 1? And I think it's good for the league. I still think they're the favorite. Don't get mad at me, Thunder fans. But I think this is just like they've come back to Earth a little bit. I still have them as the favorite. I think Jaylon Williams, I'm betting on him to come back and be fine,

but he has not looked the same and he should have gotten better or not worse this season. I had him as like the 13th best player coming to this season. Now you wouldn't have them top 25 most impactful from what we've seen. The fear if you're a thunder fan is although you did win the title

so there's not that much fear and you have a million draft picks and the best foundation in the league. The fear would be that 24 and one start was that a little like when Phoenix started really well that year after they made the finals and then

they kind of peaked in December or the Warriors when they had the 25 game winning streak to start the season. They win 73, but then they don't win the finals. Here's what I'm looking at. I think it's as simple as this. When they don't make threes, they're pretty beatable now. I went back and I looked through their six losses, four of which I watched.

The three San Antonio games, two of them, they were 24% from three and 25% from three. And the third one, they gave up 130. Spurs made everything, right? Yeah. Minnesota game, 28% from three. The Phoenix lost a couple nights ago, 31. percent from three and they got out rebounded by 20. And then Charlotte last night, 28% by three,

got out rebounded by 19. My question, big picture with Dort, who last year was 41% from 3 and is now at 33. Caruso, who was 35 last year, is now at 30? My big question is, is the league becoming better enough offensively that you can't get away with as much Dorrit and Caruso as they were able to get away with last year? that you actually need a little more,

even though their offense is up there. I think it's probably in the top eight. But just in some of these games, is that why this is not going to be a team that wins 74 games because their offense is not reliable. Yeah, last night, I mean, the most head-scratching result of the year,

in my opinion, they lose at home to the Hornets. And it was, again, they get killed. They could not make their perimeter shots. They lose confidence. The announcers are saying shit like, oh, there's a lid on the rim. They just can't get it. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's it.

And if you look at the numbers, they have the 20s. It's worse than that, though, because it's like they're, it's, this guy's open for a reason three is that they're missing. Caruso, nobody's guarding him anymore. Right. That's a real issue for them. Anyway, I interrupted you. No, no, that's a right. And I remember noticing the Spurs really doing that.

May, Caruso beat us. And I think he was like, oh for 12 or one for 13. He finally made one and garbage time or something. But that is something to watch because the offense bill in this 12 game, I'm not going to call it a total slump but by their standards it's a slump is 22nd in the NBA over the last 12 games we haven't seen them down there and any you can't slice the pie any anywhere last season and find a stretch like that the rebounding is a little bit of a concern and heartenstein's out and that's a big part of it yeah but i do think to your point if the if there's a crack in the

foundation it's on the offensive end of the court specifically beyond the three point arc I think when you have guys who you used to rely on in a real way who are now not being guarded, it's a red flag. Like the Celtics played the quipper Saturday night, the game I went to. And they were like, John Collins, Chris Dunn, Batum, knock yourself out. You're going to be alone in the corner. And if you make them, God bless you. And Collins made a bunch in the first half.

They were like, this is, we're going to stop Kauai. We're going to give you this shot, take it. And teams are doing that now with OKC. And then, you know, when they play San Antonio, who has plastic man in the middle, taking away Shea's mid-range game, and they're not guarding Caruso. When you don't have that second guy out there who's supposed to be Jalen Williams, that's where they become a little more beatable. I'm surprised, though.

I really thought they were such a juggernaut and so in tune with who they were. I really thought it was going to be, like, hard to believe when anybody beats them. And now I'm like, not surprised. Now, you're made the key boy, Hardinstein's been out. It does hurt them from a rebound in, but I do think Presti will maybe tinker with this team a little bit. And I wonder whether it's like,

like could Dort be the guy or Caruso? Do you trade one of those guys, move Kaysan Wallace into that role, play Mitchell more and try to use a Dort contract and a pick and try to get somebody really good to add? I don't know. It's just crazy how fast things change. I remember when I was talking about the 24 and one Thunder and how great they were I was on was Zach.

And I said, hey, a year ago at this time, the Celtics were clear favors in the NBA championship that ended up being the Thunders. It's just, it happens really fast. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but just as a fan of the NBA, it's a lot more interesting when there isn't this absolute buzzsaw

destroying everybody at the top of the league and we can start to see a path for Denver or San Antonio or Houston to at least give these guys, he's a seven gamer. Dorts, yeah, somehow, Dorts was born in 1999, which I don't fully understand. It feels like he's like 35. Caruso is 32 though. Yeah. So, you know, if you're going to decide we need more, we need more offense from one of those two guys. It's upgrade time. That would be the spot. I think it's too early for them to panic, though. I'm not, I'm not

panicking if I'm on them. Yes, that's what I would like to end on as well. They, they deserve to be the favorites they are still a pretty big juggernaut in this league but there's a blueprint a little bit now fucking rebound right and as dumb as this sounds try to outscore them and leave Caruso alone and maybe

he'll go 0 for 9, 0 for 10 1 for 10 and that's I guess the blueprint I still feel like I believe in Jalen Williams I think the way this gets fixed as he goes up a level because we know he has it in him and has there been

an adjustment to the foul baiting stuff or is that is that a byproduct of something else like i i got a look at the numbers i don't know if it's an officiating thing or people are figuring out how to defend him um but that's listen they can't figure out fucking james hardin still he got five calls in the game i went to saturday night we're like oh my god you guys are still falling for this james hardin just sees four people in the paint and drives toward them like he's derrick henry trying to get a first down he's just going to flail my the giant beard gets tilted up into the sky and the ruffs are just, they have no choice but to blow the whistle at that point. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I just can't watch him anymore. Like, I hate

watching him in person. I just hate it. He's my least favorite player to watch because I've just 15 years of watching him just try to get fouls. I just don't enjoy watching it. I don't like he's in a trade. I don't like it. I just don't like watching it. Anyway, Kurt Goldsbury, a pleasure, as always. Say how to everybody in Texas. Thank you, Bill. All right, we're taping this on a Monday afternoon. We just did our rewatchables mailbag, Craig Horlebeck, Chris Ryan. All three of us have teams in the NFL tournament, as Mike Brable calls it. Do you hear that?

He keeps calling it the tournament. Why? It's like, well, now that we got the tournament, winner go home, I don't know, just the Mike Brable thing. Okay. This is how we feel in about our teams check. Craig Horlebeck, Giant Steelers fan. Now Giant Aaron Rogers fan, make the case.

I have been all year. I'm tickled to be in the playoffs with him. what a fantastic close to the season. I think he's been underratedly great this entire year and all the off-field stuff and people not liking Aaron Rogers anymore has colored the fact that he's been fucking great this year. You're growing with great?

Yes, for a 42-year-old coming off in Achilles, I think he's been very, very good. So you were talking on Fantasy last night about that Ravens game, and I really liked what you were saying because I noticed it too the way he was essentially like building a castle out of sand

every snap where he's like calling out his protections he's got three guys off the street playing wide receiver his helmet wasn't working couldn't even talk

to Arthur Smith and he's drawing routes on his hand to Adam to pro bowlers from 2017 the fact that he won that game

with Adam Thielen Markes Valde Scantling and Scotty Miller is incredible it is a kind of weird like what if of the last

four years or whatever it's been where like if he had just landed in a better situation than New York like I wonder what the last

couple of years of his career career specifically would have been like. I also think he just played it right this year. He's been incredibly complimentary of Mike Tomlin of the city of Pittsburgh, the fans, why he wanted to be with this organization, the leadership. It seems like since he's been in the league, players like him. Like, whether or not fans do, players seem to really like him.

When he goes, when they played the Jets, like Breast Hall is still tweeting about Aaron Rogers. I'm on board. I want him back for next year. Want him back? Yeah. What else are we going to do? I was just looking at his stats.

He threw for over 3,300 yards, 24 TDs, 7 picks. He played every game. Yesterday was his masterpiece, though, because I couldn't believe how bad his receivers were, and they were talking about it during the game. Like, he just wants people that knows what he can do with the line of scrimmage and basically, like, smart people weren't good at football anymore.

There was one point where he had Thielen, like, he would tell Thielen what to tell the other wide receiver. And I was like, this is wild, man. Like, this. Yeah. It kind of helped that the Ravens had no people. pass rush and then Kyle Hamilton collided with another guy in the team at the perfect time of the game. I don't know if, you know, or maybe it was karma for not having Metcalf because

Metcalf was a complete game changer for them. He was like four free plays a game that they could just get something at them. Both of their horses, Metcalf and Darnell Washington, not in this game. And it was a huge deal. Like now I feel honestly, the Texans, I think for the Steelers are one of the better match if they could have gotten. Like that's another, obviously the defense is great, but like, I don't trust C.J. Stroud. I think this game's going to be in Pittsburgh on Monday night. I think this is like a solid matchup for the Steelers. It's going to be a really good game. I also think, like the, I mean, there's games on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Rogers getting the extra day or two. Yeah. I think is a big deal. T.J. Watt getting the extra day or two, I think is a big deal. And the Steelers have that ridiculous home record on Monday night. They haven't lost since 1991 at home on Monday night. Really? Yeah. They also haven't won a playoff game since 2016.

Well, there's also the voodoo that they've had all year. Yesterday was probably the peak of it. Oh, maybe the five turnover game with the Pats was pretty good, too. I mean, I was on record like six weeks ago saying they should fire Mike Tomlin. So this team is, it's... Metcalfs back to the playoffs. Dernal Washington, no. Don't think so.

But you have Kevin Wall, the most explosive pass-catching running back in the history of football. Gainwell and Warren are Jemir Gibbs and David Montgomery in my mind. The thing is he's so good at bending the rules during a game. and just being like, Riesel and I talked about it on Sunday night, like the, the friar-muth pass route where he runs to the back of the end zone

and then just kind of does the James Harden into the safety. Yeah. Just kind of flails and hopes to get a pass interference. It feels like they run play specifically to try to get past interference. Yeah, he's doing all the old man,

like post-game moves. Like, Roger. Totally. He's trying to catch like 12 men on the field. Like, there's no other quarterback's still doing that. Yeah. He doesn't care about when he uses timeouts. He says, I don't really like

what I'm sitting there timeout. Right. It's like 15 minutes left in the game. But I got to say, I thought there was no chance this was going to work. I thought he was completely washed last year. He didn't want to be hit. Now you think of them as a home dog. I couldn't agree more in Houston.

I just couldn't believe also last night. I mean, I know there was so many twists at the end of that game, but for the final touchdown drive that they had, I can't believe he's that age. And after everything that's happened, and I'm so like, that's too much time for Rogers. Dude, there was two minutes left with no timeouts. It only took him 55 seconds and no timeouts to go score with Thielen MBS,

Calvin Austin, and Scotty Miller. I mean, he had the G-leaguers in the secondary, I guess it would be the only reason. But that, it's, I think they really fucked up these field position things. Because I've been thinking about that. I'm really worried about Jacksonville for the Patriots if we can get by the Chargers. Because I think Jacksonville is really good. They had this kicker. Yeah.

that it just, if you're at midfield, he can make a field goal, right? So you could go up three, three minutes with three minutes left, two minutes left, whatever. And they kick off, they return it to the 32. They go, they get one first down and they're in field goal range. I don't like it. I don't think they did a good thing with this.

I agree, because it's compounded with not, they changed the kickoff rules where you start at the 35 yard line. And then also they've allowed these kicking balls this year where basically teams are allowed to prepare the football. all season long when they used to just get like the day of the game and so now the footballs

are so much more worn in so kickers are way more accurate with them and they can kick them further so it's like that with the 35 yard lane thing I hate it I want to move the I'm okay with the kicking balls because it's like

if these catcars can be more accurate like this is their actual ability we're seeing and I'm cool with that sure but I think we need to move the field position back I'd like the 25 not the 35 like if I'm at the 25 with the way the kickers

can kick the ball now I at least have to go 35 yards. I wonder if that gets offset by everybody going for it on fourth down now, though. Probably not. It's just made it so much easier to score points. I mean, like, I remember there was a game.

I think it was when Philip Rivers, his first game back against Seattle or whoever it was. It was Philip Rivers, who's 45 years old, hasn't played in six years, and he needed, like, 17 yards to get a field goal, and, of course, he did. And I'm like, Philip River shouldn't be able to easily bring the team back

and score points in the final seconds of a game. Like, this is too easy. Yeah, I feel like we've lost the concept of field position because when field position actually comes into playing a game, you really feel it now. Will there be these games, whether it happens to your team or whether a team you bet on or picked? And it feels like all of a sudden they just can't get out of their own 15 and over and over again they're 15 and they just can't get over the hump of getting out of there.

And it's like, yeah, this should be what football is like more often. Then I just gave up a touchdown. I'm already on the 34. Right. And I need to go to first down. and I'm back in the game. The problem is, is the NFL wants kick returns. They want kickoffs, and you have to put the ball at the 35

to incentivize people kicking the ball inbound so that they're... So that they're not right, doing the touchback. So it's kind of like a rock and a hard place thing, but I think they need to figure out the kickoff situation. Starting at the 35 is ludicrous to me now. I would get rid of field goals completely in overtime. They have to score? They're just gone.

Got to score. It's got to be a touchdown. You got to get a two point. And that's it. And in the playoffs, I think that's, that would be a great role. Every position or matter. It was the drama of last night of Boswell missing and the loop missing.

We were talking about that before we started taping the mailbag. I hope everybody learns now that you're never close enough on a night game when you're playing in a place like Pittsburgh. Like 12 seconds left on the 20, they're on the 22. It was going to get seven more yards. It was going to be a 42-yarder, 12 seconds left with a timeout. They could have easily thrown a seven-yard pass and made it a 35-yarder. Instead,

or go play action, go for the kill. Yeah. Lamar takes a negative two-yard kneel and makes it a 44-yarder on the road, outdoors in Pittsburgh. For a rookie, I've never liked that.

Even when it works out for your team or the team you bet on it, it still makes me right. I hate relying on these dudes. And this poor guy's life is ruined now. And Torrico, like laying that up when he was like, they searched far and wide for a kid

who could deliver in this exact moment. I thought he was great. I really, I thought they did an awesome job. You're not a Brady guy. As an announcer? Yeah. No, I'm not. But what are your critiques? I agree with you. I just want to hear your take as somebody who didn't grow up with him.

Where do I start? I think he's incredibly stiff and robotic. I think he doesn't know what words are going to come out of his mouth when he starts a sentence. And he's so much better whenever you see him on a podcast or like coward or Eisen or wherever he goes. He's so smooth and natural. And the second, it's ironic that Tom Brady

shudders when the lights are on because it's the opposite of who he is in the field, but he is just so stiff and wooden, and it's just bad across the board. Because everybody was like, I think he's going to have a hard time being candid if he's the co-owner of the Raiders and has his involvement.

I don't think he's had any problem being candid. If anything, like, I find his sports media appearances to be pretty, pretty on, like, he's really up front. Yeah. But it does feel like in the booth, it's not that it's moving too fast, but that he doesn't have like the same level of insight. that he does when he's got a little bit more time

and the lights aren't as bright. I don't know. It's kind of funny. He doesn't seem relaxed. Like, Aikman is just hanging out. You feel like you're at a bar with Aikman. Same thing with Collinsworth. Yeah. They wait for the, there's a pace to how they do it. They don't need to feel like they have to talk just to say something.

They don't have to feel like, I'm making words. Words are now coming out of my mouth. Like, you never feel that way with those guys. They also have, like, things that they're interested in, things that they hate. Aikman's obviously, like, got his, like, bugaboos that he, the whole, like, tee off on. Brady hasn't gotten there yet with that stuff.

No, he also hasn't figured out his announcer voice. Like, you know how sometimes when you record a podcast remotely and you have the headphones on you, you kind of like yell louder than you should? Brady's kind of doing that where he feels like he's like actually speaking to millions of people who are in a room with them. And he like always has this kind of like yell cadence to him when Aikman and Collinsworth are just like laying back and talking.

So you do this on the fantasy football show, but do your Brady impression. Baker Mayfield here. drops back just can't find anyone KB and ends up throwing the ball away just a brutal play for the Tampa Bay offense

it's just repeating what Burkhard has just said but like as analysis yeah I also he so he does that but he like he did this there in the Lions Bears game where he does he he kind of assumes

like this importance to things that aren't that meaningful or like he's like obviously this is a massive massive play for the Lions. It's like, they're out of the playoffs. There's a massive play. These guys are going to a Rupa tomorrow. Yeah.

But then I think that thing that's frustrating about him is there will be these moments during the game when all of a sudden for like 45 seconds, he's really good. And when he brings in his own experiences with stuff and all of a sudden it's like, oh, that's Tom Brady. Do you think that there's a majority of football fans are like it's just pretty cool that Tom Brady's calling this game?

Maybe. I can't tell if I'm inside of a bubble. stand of people watching a football game or just like, that's pretty cool. Probably. Yes. Because I think we get caught up on like that should be Greg Olson.

He's so much better or whatever. But like I wonder if like a lot of people are like, is that Tom Brady? Awesome. I just feel like it's Collinsworth and Aikman. And then it drops off and there's a couple other guys.

I thought JJ Y was pretty good this year. I didn't mind when he did the games. Olson was okay during the Miami Pats game yesterday, but he's with Joe Davis, who I'm just not a fan of. Also, man, what is aged worse than everybody being afraid that Brady being in these pregame meetings was going to help the Raiders? It's the funniest thing. I mean, they already fired Pete Carroll. Yeah. I would argue he's been a disaster. If he's like the conciliary for the Raiders, this couldn't have gone worse.

Plus taking Ashton Genti, the sixth pick when you can't block. Yeah, I mean, like, you got to fire him just because if you're going to rebuild you, the number one picking the draft, you're probably going to take, like, Mendoza or Dante Moore. You can't start over with Pete Carroll, who's probably going to be there for like a year or two more anyway. I just, I'm not entirely sure football's going to work in Vegas. Fernando Mendoza might be the worst fit in the city of Las Vegas that I've ever seen. But that might be what they need. Like, they need a guy who's like, I have no interest in blackjack. He's like, what is roulette?

It's black and red. Like, I just want to, I just want to play football. Yeah, he's like, I just go to the sphere and I play football. Yeah. He strikes me as like, from the producers of Russell Wilson, we bring you, Mendoza. He's, he's Kirk Cousers. He's very, how you roll? How are you?

Yeah. It's a weird one. How do you feel about your team? It's going to ask you about this. I want to ask you about this. You're an Eagles fan. You've won two Super Bowls last seven years. I want to know where are we at with the statute of limitations about when you can complain about a team that's just on a championship?

Because like this is a big. It's supposed to be five years. Yeah. And that was like a different time. It's been 10 months. But no. And I think it's just a very specific thing that I have a complaint about, which is that the offensive playbook and the execution of that playbook, it's very vanilla. It's a hard.

watch it makes it's a bummer to it's hard watch it's an unnecessarily hard watch yeah for the talent i watch them and i'm just like what what is so hard about like playing with pace and using receivers and using sake of all these toys also it's like the kremlin where it's like it's just very unclear as to like what's what they want to call versus what jalen hurts feels comfortable running like there's like two competing narratives about it yesterday then they played the commanders again i'm glad we don't have to play commanders again I'd rather play the fucking Niners than the commanders did.

Yesterday was like a big thing where there is a contingent of Eagles fans of which I may or may not have participated that were like, is it Tanner time? Would Tanner McKee run this offense more like on time and it would tempo and clearly not? Although obviously didn't have the skill players

out there once Devante sat down. That was like when Kip Pardue was Sunshine Sunstrand and Ronnie Bass and remember the Titans was like, is this guy in a list? And then he was driven. And he was like, oh, guess that? But, yeah, it's just been an irritating season. It was, like, the first half of the season was, like, AJ versus Jalen.

Then the second half of the season, we've just been spamming AJ, but the offense hasn't looked that much better. And I feel like every pass, the receivers are running back to the ball. Yeah. There's no such thing as Yak in Philadelphia. And Saquan run a trick play all year? I wouldn't even know what that would be. No, we haven't.

There's barely any motion. No. there's so many offensive statistics that just show how boring the offense is. I think there's like A.J. Brown has run like the least amount of snaps from the slot of any receiver in the NFL this year, which is just like the easiest way to get your best guy

the ball is to move him around and he's just in the same spot. It's one thing I've appreciated with the Pats this year is that they don't really have any great weapons other than the 50% of the time Diggs plays. Henry's a good tight end. He's probably a top eight tight end. The running backs are pretty good. Yeah.

But the way McDaniels uses everybody, you feel like he's put real thought into oh and then the second quarter we're going to run that fake reverse and when I watch the Eagles I don't see any of that I just feels like they just want to take 35 seconds of play go slow methodical

kill the clock for some reason it's like this big and it's like if you watch the hard docks he Siriani runs through like this like if we win the turnover battle we're like 57 and one and so it's essentially like his bet is like if we win the

turnover battle if we don't give the ball away. And I got admit, watching Tanner McKee throw picks yesterday, I was like, oh, this sucks. Yeah. Like, we just drove all the way down the field and you threw a fucking pick on the one yard line. Like, this is not, I'm glad I don't have to watch this every week, but there is just something that's just really grinding.

And we're just in a spot where we have like a CEO coach, whether or not he should be like a CEO or not, but he thinks that he has like an offensive system. Most teams have the play caller coach. We have lost our OC every either because they get hired away like Stuyken and Kellan Moore

or we fire them like Brian Johnson and probably Kevin Petulow. And it's just a really tough spot to be in because you're constantly reshuffling. And I feel like, I don't know. I mean, but I have nothing to complain about. Every other team would probably trade places. I feel like you're allowed to complain even after you won a Super Bowl if the team has so much potential and you're not reaching any of it.

It's the endless cycle of the Eagles have. a really good season and then they allow and then so their coordinator gets hired somewhere else and then Siriani is allowed to bring to pick his own

play caller that play caller sucks they get rid of him and then Howie's like I'm picking the play caller they bring in like Kellen Moore they're good

and then the same thing happens again yeah and every year Jaylen Hurts has to get to know another offensive coordinator now like

I I just wish it was more entertaining that's all I'm saying yeah I guess part of what I don't understand about football

and neither do you guys probably because we didn't play I play freshman year in high school What is this? I mean if we're like playing NFL Is it this complicated When you get a new coordinator

Is it like Is it like Drake May had a new offensive coordinator From last year to this year And it was okay Like should it be this Every time they always blame this When the offense doesn't look good It's like well you know hurts

And it's a new guy It's like how fucking hard is it? Also I think we do a lot of like If you're like do ball knowers side of football media and you're watching like a lot of like all 22 breakdown stuff I can attest it really only matters if people can block

and yeah Sequin Barclay has just been running into the back of his offensive line all year and the last three years whether it was Seekwan or Miles Sanders or whoever game well we were a buzzsaw and like dudes were just getting like six yards of carry and nobody and so that set up the past and now we're like

we're just the most like conservative offense because we're not actually getting anything on the ground so you know I'm going to do all my picks on Thursday. I'd hoping to change my luck. I did not have a good season this year, but I still feel like I have a, I don't know, I'm weirdly confident for the playoffs. I think this was the one team

San Francisco could have played in round one that they actually could probably beat. Oh, Philly? Yeah. Oh, I think this is a tough matchup for, for, well, every matchup's a tough matchup for them. Their defense sucks. But I was thinking about it from their side, like, my defense sucks. I'd want to play Philadelphia because

they're going to be so slow and conservative anyway. That's actually like pretty good for my defense. And they're going to be able to score on them offensively, I think, maybe. But I don't know. I didn't like any other matchup for them. No, I mean, the NFC is really good. But flying to Philly, cold weather outdoors, Brock Purdy's beat up, Trent Williams is beat up with the Eagles defense.

I think it's kind of a tough draw. Is Brock Pretty beat up because he has that cut in us in? He heard himself in the last play of the game. I think he's going to play. I don't know. There's some major, nobody believes in us going on with the Niners. I think the Niners probably think that the Eagles stole a Super Bowl appearance from them a couple years ago. case. I think this is important.

I know that I know Niners fans who were like, you guys decimating, taking out Brock and then I can't, was it, Tray Lance, was this backup? I can't remember who the backup was. Josh Johnson. No, it wound up being Josh Johnson that were, we may have been playing against McCaffrey and Wildcat at the end. Like, I can't even remember. It invented, it's

why the NFL now, the emergency third quarterback role was created because of that game, the NFC championship. That's right. So I think the Niners still feel like we stole, the Eagle stole one from them. And I think they are going to be playing with a big chip on their shoulder. That being said, I think you're right. Like, West Coast to East Coast

in Philly. It's tough. Our starting defense is really good, though. Rocking. Like, our defense is really good. Yeah. It's a suspicious line. What is it? It's like Philly by three and a half. Yeah. And San Francisco sucks on defense. Like, they're legitimately bad.

It is interesting, though, Seattle only scored what, 13 on that was the final score of that game? Yeah, 133. 13. Yeah. I don't know. I think they're scary. I'm I'm always scared of teams in the playoffs that can move the ball because everything slows down

everything gets weird in the playoffs. I'm looking at that one. I just don't like the way Philly looks. I thought it was so weird that they didn't care about the two seed.

I think it's strange too, but apparently the players were okay with it and I think people would have been losing their shit if Devante Smith or AJ or Staquin or Jalen Hertz had gotten hurt

in that game, which totally could have happened Brock Pretty hurting himself in the last fucking play. Yeah. I don't know. If I get the two seed,

I get to play Green Bay and then I get the second game at home and it's just easier for me to make the Super Bowl and at the very least why can't you play them for an hour see what's going on in the Chicago game and it's like holy shit Chicago's losing because yesterday during the game

the play by play guy who I can't remember who it was was like advocating for Siriani to like bring the starters in in like the third quarter I was like that's how football works like these guys can't just like come in cold in the third quarter

and play against the commanders. They'll get killed. I just think Philly is, like they are built for winning a playoff game. Like where they just drag you down to the mud. It's low scoring.

I'm going to land there by Thursday. Right now I'm being seduced by the sexy San Francisco angle. I was watching it yesterday with a buddy and I was like, if the Eagles beat the Niners this weekend, I'll shut up by Nick Siriani forever. Because obviously it's not pleasant.

It's not fun, but whatever he's doing is how you win football games. It is weird when you have a, just a really frustrating team. Like the 2020-3 Celtics were like this for me, the last market smart season where they almost made the finals.

But I just hated watching them all year, whereas this year I love the Celtics. I feel like there's a really fun Eagles team in there. Like a team I would want to watch where it's, if you're going to pay $60 million for two receivers, and then it's like you begrudgingly using them, what's the point of that?

I just think that line, the offensive line's just in a transition moment, and, you know, it's post-Kelsea. Lane Johnson's been hurt. Leonard Dickerson has been on and off hurt. And I just think that they can't block. And because they can't block, nothing works. Yeah, I think that's right.

It's almost impressive that our record is as good as it is. Craig was a virgin the last time the Steelers had a really good playoff moment. What year was that? 2016. Freshman football? No, I was good then. 2016? Yeah.

Did they win a playoff game there? Yeah, I was going back to 2008, James Harrison. I was a virgin in 2008, that's right Right? You didn't look at a girl like, it's the financial, it's a housing crisis, let's go. I was 14.

Yeah. 16, you lost to us? God, I can't even remember. I think we waxed you. Yeah. That was the last time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's weird.

The Stairs haven't really felt like they had a chance to win a Super Bowl since the 2000. Was that the bullshit Heath-Miller game? When he caught that pass? No, it was regular season. Oh, yeah. but you keep Tomlin yeah Tomlin will come back

were you excited about that or no I am now do you think it's Tomlin and Arthur Smith come back and they'll have some continuity yeah I think they need to get a new defensive coordinator I think they have the most basic boring predictable defense in the league and like Rahim Morris getting fired Rahim Morris and Tomlin are buddies they were together

in Tampa they did an episode of flying coach together get Rahim to be the DC in Pittsburgh because that's pretty scary yeah Rahim was like overqualified DC underqualified head coach But everybody said as a DC, he was awesome. But like, well, the Steelers have the most expensive defense in the league or something, and it's like not good.

That was the craziest thing in this season to me is that Atlanta only went eight and nine didn't win that division by far had the most talent. Yeah. There's no question they were the best team. They had one loss to the Jets. And if they didn't do that, they would have won the division. Was cousins available earlier in the season? Yeah.

You wonder what would have happened. Oh, Mike. Oh, Mike. I think we overestimated, or we underestimated, or we underestimated, what another year of recovery from an Achilles tear will do. Kirk looks so much better. Rogers looks so much better. I think, you know,

keep that in mind for Jason Tatum's Valentine's Day return. That's right. Oh, man. We just need like 15 minutes a game from Tatum. 15 minutes a game? To add to this juggernaut, Celtics thing. Yeah. Just need him to take the Baylor Showerman minutes for seven minutes a half.

Will he accept that? We're just going to sneak them in. Just like, just shoot some threes, grab a couple rebounds. Where to go? Who was your first? fantasy MVP of the year. It's McCaffrey. It's got to be. For what? You agree with my theory that if you pick McCaffrey, you probably won your draft or made the finals? Yeah, and just like the risk reward of McCaffrey, of like, if you were like brave enough to take him in the first round of your

draft, and then the game won, opening day, I think it was Eagles Cowboys. That day, there was a report that came out that he had a calf injury and he missed practice and everybody lost their shit. And he played every single game and ended up having just as good of a year fantasy-wise. I think he's had like the exact same points per game as he did that 2023 season where he was amazing. It's unbelievable that he had bilateral Achilles tendonitis came back and had the same year as he did in 2023.

We should do post-football. We should do the best fantasy players of the last 35 years on my pod with you and the Danes. 35 years might be hard for me to contribute the first half. You're from your virginity on.

No, but we could do... It's a long time. We could just look at the stats. We could print out like whatever the numbers were. Okay. Because I'm telling you, Jerry Rice in the 90s was like the all-timer. Oh, so like going back to like.

There's just, because the reason I thought of that was because I think McCaffrey is a first ballot fantasy guy now. Yeah. Like when we think of like that last level of like not only great, but great for like eight, nine years, like Tomlinson was like that. Oh, Tomlinson. Jerry Rice was like that. LT was the guy when I was growing up in middle school.

I started playing fantasy football. I remember he would throw for a touchdown, run a touchdown and catch a touchdown every year. No, I'm talking like the OGs. like these guys won leagues for you. Marshall Falk was like that for a couple years. There was like two amazing priest homes years. Yeah, there's a couple of like many Dion Wader's seasons where it's like guys who were incredible for two years

and then disappeared. Like Chris Johnson on the Titans was unbelievable. Peyton Hillis. Peyton Hillis was so good. There's some receivers. Like David Boston had a crazy year. Josh Gordon, all-timer. It would be funny to try to figure out the actual first ballot guys

which we could probably figure out pretty easily by the numbers. But Rice was like, he was the first. one. Yeah. He was, he was a, he would go like first, second, third in some of these drafts. The fantasy thing that we always talk about is this playoff league I'm in, my fantasy league with my guy, the first one I was in with my high school and some college buddies. And we go through 18 weeks, top four teams advance to the playoffs.

You get to keep up to six guys. Then we have a draft. So finish first place, that guy's first pick. It's not snake. And it goes one, two, three, four. first place guy picked second in round two and you pick all the guys

out of all the teams that didn't make the playoffs so if somebody had Josh Allen they didn't make the playoffs Josh Allen not eligible for the draft right

we do two quarterbacks and you have an advantage if you're in first place but the lower you go you kind of have to take chances and be like I'm all in on Jacksonville making the playoffs or making the Super Bowl

how good is the player for how good is the team could I get four Trevor Lawrence games here and then yeah and it's really good It's really fun and we think it's better

than actual fantasy plus it keeps going. Who's the top pick? Is it Josh Allen because he's a wild card so you can get four games out of him? I mean,

Drake May I guess is also playing round one. Drake May is up there because you might get three games out of them. And I think same thing for Josh. You get four.

The problem with the league this year is that there's no like slam dunk. Right. I know this team will be in the Super Bowl. That's the thing is like who,

what fan is like we can win the Super Bowl? If you think Seattle's going to make the Super Bowl, then JSN would be a top four guy. She'd be like, I will get three games at him. But I don't know if they're going to make the Super Bowl. No, the NFC is so tough. There is no prohibitive favorite.

I don't know. Maybe Denver fans feel really good, but it's... No, they shouldn't. I don't. I mean, I think Seattle and the Rams have the best odds by far, and then it dips down to the Denver one. But that's why, like, we have four home dogs in round one. I don't think any fan base feels awesome about their team.

I think I know somebody from every fan base. based. The Seattle fans are the funniest because they just don't trust Arnold at all. Sure. They have a really good team, really well coached. Running game looked better. The San Francisco game was a big win, but they don't, you just can't trust Arnold until you see it. Do you trust the Patriots? I don't trust the defense. I trust the offense. I think they'll be able to move the ball. And I'm completely trust Drake. Because especially with Will Campbell back, they're going to be able to like put drives together. Which team would you want to see the least in the aFC championship.

At Denver is complicated from a Patriot standpoint because there's some bad history there in the history of the franchise. But on the flip side, we have good history against the Chargers. We have good history against the Jaguars. I think the Jaguars have the highest ceiling of all the AFC teams because they've been really good now for two months. Yeah.

Like everyone says the same thing. It was like, well, the Jaguars are playing the best butt. And then you pick another team. And it's like, well, the Jaguars are playing the best. best. You just said it. Why can't they keep winning? They're probably the most balanced in terms of good defense, good offense. They have both. Yeah. And they have explosive plays

and they can get third downs. Yeah. And I don't understand why Trevor Lawrence is not, and Liam Cohen are not in the coach of the year and MVP conversations. Liam Cohen should be. Trevor Lawrence has the same stats as Drake May. He won 13 games. He won his division. He's won eight straight. I don't know why he's not in conversation.

I think he's going to be the third. But he's like 600 to 1 or something compared to Stafford and May, which is a coincidence. I think it was too late when he got going. Yeah, I don't know. I'm already on the record as saying I was out and that he was never going to be good of football. So it's a tough one for him here

because I have to unwind that one. He's been really good. I don't know if it was the Casey game that flipped it, that Monday night game. But I actually have real confidence in him, which would be hilarious if I then pick them in a bunch of playoff games and then he just fucks me.

Do you care at all about Lamar and Mahomes? and maybe some of like the bigger teams not getting to the playoffs like do you think because like the NBA it's like they're not because we've replaced those guys don't you think? I feel like we have new characters. I think football transcends at this point like

but you still need the guys because we had that the beginning of the 2000s when we had Warner and Brady show up but it was basically like Manning and Farve and there wasn't anybody else. We were like who's like Steve McDair and these people that weren't even that fun to watch play football

and then it was the whole, it was kind of an existential crisis of who were the next guys. We were like putting everything on Peyton Manning. I feel like we have so many good young guys now. Yeah, totally. We talked about this on our big year recap on the fantasy show that just like the winner of the year

was kind of just like the new guard replacing the old guard of Mahomes and Lamar missing the playoffs. Burrow missing the playoffs. Burrow missing the playoffs. The bill's not winning the division and kind of having a down year for probably what they expected. and then you got all these guys.

I mean, the mini winner, within that category of the years, all these offensive coordinators who come in and, like, in these play callers, like Liam Cohen coming in and fixing Trevor Lawrence, Ben Johnson fixing Caleb Jones, or Ben Johnson fixing Caleb Williams, McDaniel with Drake May. There's been so many examples of just, like, talented quarterbacks who are struggling, and these guru play callers come in, and now the offense is great, and now we have, like, double the amount of great quarterbacks in the league.

Yeah, even Bo Nex, who I'm not even 100% sold on, is fun to watch. I think we have a lot of fun to watch. I think we have a lot of fun to watch guys but I don't know Lamar and Mahomes to me were the old guard Burrow was sort of there but I feel like he's been hurt every year and we all knew his team is going to suck

I wish I don't want to take him away from Bengals fans but I do wish Burrow was in either had like a better infrastructure around him or was on like a different team and could I said to Sal on Sunday he's the closest to an NBA star that we have at the quarterback position

She's starting to talk a lot. It's weird. He's weird in the press conferences. He seems mad at the team, but he also signed a huge extension with them and push them to spend all of their money on him and two receivers. Yeah. And then you watch the receivers. And back to Zach Taylor.

He's like, it's not his fault. Right. Didn't try to get him out. And you watch the receivers. But they like not have a GM. Yeah. It's so funny. Like, shit like that's fun.

No. I watched that whole. We had, Sal and I had the Bengals and a T's. So we were wide. That was the one we lost yesterday. Against the Browns. T. Higgins is just has guys draped all over him every play.

He's, he's become one of, he's never open. Yeah. And then Chase, they just, because he has no time to throw, it's basically like 10-yard routes for him.

So it's like, what's the point of having these two receivers who can't block for them? These the Eagles can block the two receivers you have. But I don't, I don't understand that blueprint of we need to spend $60 million of this position. Right. They listen to Burrow.

Burrow advocated for it, and he's really throwing his weight around. Like, he's LeBroning it a little bit, where he's kind of like, I want Zach Taylor to stay. I want you to resign T. Higgins. I want you to draft these guys. So it's kind of like, and they have tried to draft offensive linemen. They're just not working. They drafted, uh, is it Armand Membu? Like, like, fifth or six overall?

A lot of them just like aren't. No, they drafted. He went to the Jets. Oh, Marius Mims. They drafted. Yeah, yeah. And he hasn't really been that great. It's tough.

It's really hard to pay. I mean, the Cowboys are about to go through this right now, paying your quarterback $50 million and two wide receivers a ton of money. It's really hard to do that. I think the draft is maybe I'm getting older

and just getting better at trying to figure it out. But like the Will Campbell thing was so funny as it was happening with the arm length. Yeah. And just missing all this basic shit like and you can tell

from the moment they drafted him he's like, I will now protect Drake May for the rest of my life. And that's right, like he's Drake May's best friend. Yeah. They hang out all the time.

He's like, my role in life is to be this man's protector. Yeah. He's like, I don't understand how that doesn't come up in the draft process. You're getting this guy who's like, I was built to be a left tackle. Give me the quarterback. I have to protect. He's almost like in Game of Thrones. A lot of it is situational, right?

Like, I mean, I remember all the pods you guys did about Bo Nix or in that quarterback class, and it's just like, if you get Sean Peyton. If Bo Nix was on the Jets, he'd be probably terrible. Yeah. And what a bench by now. The problem where it goes really, like the Panics pick, which was one of the worst picks ever went in. happened. And then the only thing you could say, like in favor of it was, well, if he can stay

healthy. And then he gets hurt again. It's like, of course he got hurt. He's had five fucking knee injuries. And by the way, it wasn't good to begin with. Like, really unimpressive when you watched him. And he's older. I liked him in college a little bit. But like Tyler Shuck is a similar example. He's like 26 years old. He was on Justin Herbert's team at Oregon, which is insane. Yeah. And he's had two career-rating injuries already. And he's 26 years old. And it's like, all right, we'll see with Kellynne Moore can turn him into something.

He looks all right. But it's kind of similar to the panic situation except they didn't take him in the first round. But they took him 40th instead of eight and they didn't take them in the area of a quarterback.

The funny thing that's happening now because I was just reading all of the portal stuff before we started doing rewatchables, like all those guys are staying. Like the dude who's going to Texas Tech is going to make $5 million. The guy from University of Cincinnati

and he's going to go to, like he's basically like gets a rookie quarterback contract to go play for Texas Tech. So I think all the quarterbacks coming out. will probably be a little bit older than we're used to soon. Definitely, that's going to become a trend.

I mean, I think Anthony Richardson was like the end of the era of the quarterback. Let's take a 20-year-old. Yeah. Play like 12 games, but he's a freak. Like, if you're Dante Moore, like, don't you just, you could stay at Eugene and probably like...

Well, that's the thing. I mean, they might win a national championship this year. I think they have incredible recruits next year. He'll get paid $5 million. And then he doesn't have to risk going to the Raiders or the Jets if he doesn't want to go there. This is where you need almost like a draft committee for athlete advice

you'd be like Dante here's the history of guys who came out in the NFL draft too early as quarterbacks now here's the history of all the guys who played for the Jets don't do this man just just trust the process

for one more year you're gonna be out of the league in five years the Jets are gonna probably they'll probably be picking close to the top of the first round it's like you can't really in 27 and there will be more

quarterbacks coming out but yeah it gets tricky when you try to do that but I mean quarterbacks have done that in the past right the full circle would be though the Jets taking somebody else and then spending money on Mac Jones. I feel like Mac Jones playing on the Jets for $28 million a year

would be the Jetsiest of the Jets outcomes. That's, we should rank what, because you can talk yourself into it. We should rank what are the most jetsiest outcomes that could. I think the jet, the dolphins eating $49 million of Tua's contract, and then the Jets signing him, giving him the Russell Wilson,

the Steelers $1 million a year. We're basically getting him for free. He's going to play, he'd play three games. that's a Jetsy outcome or they just like pay up for Kyler Murray and convince themselves that that Kyleor Murray feels very jetsy to me too. The Jets have always been like this

that I remember it's like 30 years ago Neil O'Donnell was in the Super Bowl against Dallas and through like the worst pick of all time to lose the game but just was like good but not quite good enough and then the Jets splurged on him because he was a winner and then he gave the press conference where he was like

I'm a winner and me and my friends made joke about We still joke about it. I'm a winner. I was brought here to win games. And he was done in like a year. You just kind of know with some of the, like if it's the Jets,

I don't know what type of quarterback would succeed on the Jets, but we've tried all the types at this point. And I don't even, like, would Drake May have worked on the Jets? Like, I think he would have, but I don't know. I mean, look at Drake May on the Patriots year one. Didn't work. Like running for his life.

I mean, I would argue he overachieved. Yeah. He's literally running for his life all the time. Do you have an MVP thing? thing, just out of curiosity I'll abstain because I've already talked about it. I don't have strong feelings on it.

I think they're both deserving. I don't have a problem. I know the one knock is like the last time an MVP won that didn't win their division was like 20 years ago. So I think that's fair. I don't know.

I think Stafford... She said three wild cards this century won the MVP. I wouldn't be upset if either won the MVP. And if I had to give it to one person, I'd probably give it to Stafford. Yeah, sure you would. Fucking typical media.

I'll take May just because I had him on fantasy. Yeah. Did you see it? You did. Tom Brady picked? I did. Who did you pick? Who did you pick?

No, he picked Matt Stanford, of course. Okay. That felt like a very stealth Josh McDaniel thing. Josh has been dining on. I did everything and I don't want Josh to get too much credit here. And just like,

I don't want there to be a new king of New England. Well, but it's like if McDaniel can turn May into an MVP in two years, then like, what does that mean about Brady? Exactly. We've already debunked the strength of schedule thing

because it, The thing came out about all the EPA defenses each guy faced. They're basically the same. Stafford's only playing the defense of the other team. He's not playing offense. That's already been debunked. Nobody seems to care about May's running and the fact that he can scramble and use his leg. Stafford's like basically can't move.

He's a fossil. Stafford threw 46 touchdowns, eight picks. I love how passionate you still get. It's really good. Led the league in passing. You're not mad about this. I would be passionate if this was an NBA argument with two guys. I didn't care about.

I think at some point, like, logic is logic. And all the cases for Stafford, it's like, I can debunk that. I can't debunk your 46 touchdowns, 13 of which came on the one yard line. You're right. I can't beat that one.

But I just think what May did this year has been underrated. But I guess if he loses to the Chargers in round one, then it looks stupid. I think they honestly, both, I think they're both deserving. I don't have super strong thoughts. I do think the Patriots

having one of the easiest schedules of the 20th century. Yeah. If you can discredit Stafford for having Puka and throwing a bunch of one-year touchdowns, I can also discredit it. But when they say easy schedule, like they played San Francisco's terrible defense twice

and San Francisco is a playoff team. So it's like, there's a playoff team he played. I would love playing against the San Francisco defense. We went against the Cleveland defense, which was good, but Cleveland sucked. Now I know. Which defense would you rather go against? But most of the games,

you only need to score 14 points to win because you're going up against the Jets and you're up by 20 at halftime. Stafford's going to win. It's a regular season. What? Regular season award? No, it's a lifetime achievement award. We're finding out. That is, that is honestly kind of what it is. This is Al Pacino and son of a woman. It's like, well, sorry about Godfather too, Al. Downey Jr. Oppenheimer. Here's your Oscar.

I don't know. I think it's, I think it's close enough where you can't be outraged either way. I think the nerds are going to carry Drake Mae home this week because there's so many EPA, all that shit. It's going to help. But like, how can you make the case definitively for Drake May over Trevor Lawrence? It's a good question. I think because Lawrence wasn't as good. in the first six, seven weeks. It's actually Trevor Lawrence. People would respect that. Oh, can you imagine if I did that?

They had like the same amount of yards. Trevor Lawrence had more touchdowns, one less win, also won his division. Also, it can run. I think you ran for nine touchdowns. You're leaving out stuff where like the Pats had the number one offense in EPA. May led the league in completion percentage and yards per attempt. I'm just saying. But you did do this for Sal.

What was Sal's reaction? Sal's just, he's already pigeonholed by his Drake Maybe stuff from the beginning of the year. So he's just, now he's just reading his Drake May. What do you feel about the Chargers in New England? I can't believe the Chargers won 11 games. So that's where I am and a lot of people are like Chargers, Underdog. I actually feel like this was a pretty good matchup for us. Oh, yeah.

But if you can't be the Chargers, this whole season was a lie. Yeah, yeah. Chargers have... And you should feel the same way about your team. If you can't beat the Niners with that defense, like, what a fucking joke. With all the offense and all the money you've spent on your offense, you can't beat the Niners' defense? I still feel like

this is my whole thing is like the Eagles are just this is still like a skip day you know what I mean it's like that's a good way to think I'd like us to win at least a playoff game it's right

because going back to back in the NFL doesn't really mean anything it's no history at all involved only like five teams have done it shouldn't want that you won years already

I'm just saying that given the evidence of what I've seen it's not did you like my theory that the Eagles didn't care about the two

or the three seed because they don't want to play any playoff home games because their fans hate them? I don't think that that's true, but I do think that they play freer on the road. Yeah. And I don't think they get booed at halftime if they've only scored 13 points or something.

So how would you grade the regular season for 2025? Across the board? Yeah, just across the entertainment value this season. I thought it was one of the better seasons in a while. The unpredictability of, I think Mahomes and Lamar dropping out with all of these new quarterbacks, The fact that Caleb works, Trevor Lawrence works, Drake May worked.

I think this is the most excited I've been for the playoffs in a long time. I think it was an A-plus regular season. So many twists and turns. It's as wide. I mean, I think the Chief's downfall as made, it just created like this vacuum of like,

you could give me six different teams. I'd be like, I believe it. A lot, there was like 10 really memorable games too. Like that Casey Jacksonville Monday game was fucking crazy. The opening Baltimore Buffalo game. The Bears game. Yeah. That Niners Seahawks, not Niners Seahawks.

Ram Seahawks from two weeks ago. The Packers Bears game from a couple weeks ago was nuts. The Bills were in that one Bill's Pats game was really good. There's really good games. And I kind of don't mind. Like, you could give me any Super Bowl matchup and I'd be like, that's cool. You can pick any two teams. And I'm like, that's exciting.

That's different. It used to be, I remember last year, everybody was like, please just don't do Chiefs Eagles. And it's always like, please just don't have to be the Chiefs again. Now I'm kind of like, whichever team makes it, I'm kind of excited for. Yeah. I actually was looking this morning at the odds of a Jacksonville, Seattle Super Bowl. That would be amazing.

And they weren't nearly as high as that. It was like 17 to 1. I'm like, how is this not like 80 to 1? This would be a crazy Super Bowl. Can you imagine? Yeah. The Jaguars, the Seahawks. It's nice though that like with that kind of thing, if the Jags and the Seahawks played

in the Super Bowl, like still everybody were watching. It's not like super cool. Yeah. It's not like the small market thing in the NBA where if it's like the bucks and the suns, nobody's going to watch. It doesn't matter who's in the Super Bowl people are going to watch. The funny thing is the Jags are doing all of this after trading all this stuff for Travis Hennar

who stopped playing for them like two months ago. I know. That's such a terrible trade in retrospect already. And his career ended when Danny and Craig said he was basically Wondell Robinson with better PR. And meanwhile, Wando Robinson, didn't he get like a thousand yards? He had a thousand yards.

He was like insulting to Wondo Robinson. He almost did like the Miles Garrett stop the game because he got his thousand yards. I love when Zach Taylor got mad about that. Yeah. It's like, what the fuck? We're stopping the game. We're fighting for our lives out here.

We were living in five weeks ago. Yeah. Nobody told me about this. Settled down. Travis Hunter might not like start at wide receiver next year. They have three good wide receivers. They should just play him at Dback, though. That's which is what they should have done anyway.

Just made him a shutdown cornerback who can come out for some third of the tents. I mean, this is this entire playoffs is like that nobody believes enough playoffs. Like, every team. It's like the Bears, do you believe in the Bears? We haven't seen it from Drake May and the Patriots in the playoffs. Trevor Lawrence and the Jags, it's like Sam Darnold. Who do I believe in? I was trying to think who the number one.

The number one nobody believes in us team. And the Jaguars, who already were touting that for the last like six weeks. And then to be home underdogs against Buffalo team that they've played better than for the last three months. I think they're probably number one. Yeah. I think the bears are in there too, though. I do like the Bears. against the Packers who are banged up

is a good one. And then the Panthers obviously getting 10 in it. Oh, yeah. I don't know if the players understand math and like how fucking embarrassing 10 and a half is, but that is like such a slap in the face. That's one of the biggest spreads we've ever had. The Rams. They beat the Rams like a month ago.

And by the way, you can throw the ball on the Rams. The Rams is going to win. Brissette was over and over again, just beating them. Yeah. It wasn't like the Rams didn't need the game yesterday. I think Devonte's going to be back, which would be big. So don't staffer can throw some more one-yard touchdowns. You think you can grab them in there?

The one thing I think got overrated was the Houston defense, which I think peaked about four weeks ago. And I'm not sure it's exactly the same defense. It seems to be giving up like long balls now that they weren't before. So going back to... Did they lose a DB or something like that? No, they just... They were really sloppy.

They gave up two long plays to the Chargers. They were getting beat yesterday. and it's like that could be a D.K. Metcalf spot for you. Yeah, it's going to be an ugly game. I do think Rogers looked really good last night because the Ravens had no pass rush. So I am a little worried about like Will Anderson and Danielle Hunter hitting him in like the third series

and him just being like, I'm rattled. Yeah, there's a world where you just get overrun. Yeah, that's always the case, though, with the Steelers. It's either win by two, lose by 20. Unbelievable. Plus, we have six or Celtics in May for the Eastern Conference finals. I can't wait for that. How are you feeling about the Embedicants?

Have we ever had a situation where the Sixers and Celtics fans both loved their team at the same time? I can't believe how this- 2018 was the last time, maybe? I feel such deep connection to this Sixers team now. Like the fucking BJ, it's like, forget Dwayne Wade, let's fucking MJ. The Grizzlies game that was like a couple of nights before Christmas. Yeah, I watched that. It was like unreal, like in the Philly bar.

The one on Peacock. I watched that game. Yeah, he's right. I mean, you have two of the most fun players in the league. Yeah. My team has this Jalen Brown Renaissance and Tatum coming back and really fun to watch. Pretty crazy. I would not have predicted that we were to be the two most fun teams in the East. I know.

It's just the Cavs made way for us. Our guy Darrell's sticking around now. Seems like it. Yeah. Your team's dead. I'm sorry. Your team's looking at Anthony Davis and Michael Porter Jr. I need to get in a room with Joe Lake.

I'm a piece of my mind for what he's done to us the last five years. he'd be happy to write you back in an email to send one. It's tough because I mean, he can just wait at Brian Steph Curry for five years.

But he could also say we won the title on 22. We've won four. We've spent as much money as we could possibly spend. We outthought a lot of teams. It's kind of like you guys have had a great run.

You've had a run that most people who watch basketball will never experience it. We've been sticking to Jonathan Kaminga, Pajemski, and a bunch of scrubs literally for four straight years.

Yeah. Just waiting for the right trade to come along. Yeah. The Kaminga thing, that was just amazing. I would love to have Anthony Davis. I don't care. Cominga this weekend, when he was getting yanked around by Kerr, and then they're like,

Benidia's like, my back hurts them out. It was like, we've now reached the fuck you area of that relationship. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. It was like a week. Do you think the warriors are going to get anybody? I mean, what's interesting is, I thought it was going to be Porter Jr. for a little while.

which I think would have really helped them. But now he's probably played himself up into like a two first round picks type of... Michael Porter Jr.? Yeah. He's been going toe to toe. But like you do know what you're getting, right? Like we just watched...

Or you're getting somebody who's blossoming and maybe on Denver couldn't use all the pieces of them, you know? It's just... It's dangerous, is my point. Steph's going to be 38 in March and he's averaging 29 a game. And we're just...

He's just been doing that. He looks the same as he did five years ago. LeBron for Butler is just the trade that makes the league more fun. That is just a hilarious trade. I'd rather jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. LeBron James on the Warriors. They have to figure out the DreamOn thing too.

I've been enjoying JJ's press conferences more than actual Lakers games. Yeah, me too. Or JJ's like media availability after practice where he's just like, guess everybody just had a great holiday. I didn't. You know, like, I don't know,

we weren't even running plays out there. I're going to work on that. We're calling the plays. They're not running them. Pretty funny. I, we need like, I was thinking like if the ringer worked like some of these NBA teams, how interesting that would be? Where if like, I don't know, Sean was like Draymond Green and he's just taping the big picture.

He just storms out of a big picture taping an hour in. It's like, we only have another hour or one hour of the big picture because Sean couldn't make it through another taping. Like, it's literally Draymond's job to stay in the court for the entire game. So you've one job. All right, good luck with the Steelers. Good luck with the Eagles. myself luck with the Patriots. I wish your luck as well, Bill. I hope we're all surviving

for at least a couple rounds. Thanks for popping on. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsbury. Thanks to CR and Craig. Thanks to Gahou and Eduardo. Don't forget live Bill Simmons podcast Wednesday, February 11th, the ringer.com slash events. Yeah, we're going to do this. I have no idea who's going to be on it, but it'll be entertaining. And I have new podcasts coming on Thursday as well. We'll be breaking down all the football stuff. Try to change my picking luck. See if we can throw a couple wrinkles in. I will see you

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