The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Scuttlebutt, LeBron's Next Move, and Lonzo's Lakers (Ep. 223)

Episode Date: June 7, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor to discuss the many rumors and rumblings surrounding the NBA. Topics include: Jerry West's interest in the Clippers (5:00), CP3's no-trade clause (12:00), Lonzo and the Lakers (18:00), possible Kings trade packages (30:30), Isaiah Thomas's trade potential (39:30), the Paul George situation (47:00), LeBron to the Lakers (55:00), and adjustments for the Cavs in Game 3 (1:05:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This one's explosive. There's going to be some detonations. Get ready for this one. First Pearl Jam. All right, Kevin O'Connor on the phone from The Ringer. He's been doing some great stuff for us. He was at the first two games of the finals. He is now in L.A.

We've switched spots. I'm actually in Cleveland, and he's in L.A. We wanted to talk about all the stuff we've been hearing. Scuttlebutt. This is the Scuttlebutt podcast. Trying to discern which Scuttlebutt is valuable, which Scuttlebutt is not valuable. What we're going to do is we're going to discuss 11 to 12 stories. I can't remember the exact number because I can barely count. That have just been kind of circulating.

What happens, Kevin, you went to the finals for the first time, game one, game two. And what happens is, tell the audience what happens. You show up two hours before the game, and what goes on in those two hours? I see a lot of people talking, a lot of media talking, front offices, executives, a lot of gossiping about what's going on around the league. It's interesting to see happen. It's interesting to be a part of. You loved it, didn't you?

Yeah, it was really cool walking in there for the first time, just seeing a mass amount of media there two hours before the game when it's usually empty. What it is, it's a 120-person gossip podcast of people. Did you hear this? Did you hear that? What's going on there? What's going on there? What's going on this? One topic really, two topics really surprised me when I was hanging out before game one

and just in general, just with emails and people I've been talking to. Two topics have surprised me. And what we're going to do is we're going to structure this so that you're going to have to listen to this whole podcast before we get to those two topics. We're going to split this up're going to structure this so that you're going to have to listen to this whole podcast before we get to those two topics. We're going to split this up. It's like a dinner party.

It's a gossip scuttlebutt. What should we believe and what shouldn't we believe dinner party? And we're splitting this up with appetizers, salads, and then the main course dinner, which is surf and turf. It's delicious. But the appetizers, we have one, two, three, four, five and a half, basically. So let's start here. Jerry West to the Clippers. People are talking about it. Mark Stein reported it. I did not believe it at first. It felt to me like a gossip story that probably was being leaked by somebody, but didn't really have anything real to it. I was wrong.

I think it's real. KOC, what have you heard? I think it's definitely real. I find it intriguing that when the Warriors have been asked about it, they've admitted it's something that they'll address after the season. His contract is up, so he's a free agent. And, I mean, if he wants to return to L.A., even if it's not the Lakers, it seems like the Clippers would be a good spot for him. I don't think Doc Rivers would be best handling both GM responsibilities and coaching responsibilities.

So Jerry West would be a nice addition for them anyway. Yeah, it's tough when your GM and your coach works 30 hours a week combined for both jobs. Here's the thing about Jerry West, especially after talking to some people in Oakland, his job's kind of done there. They built a dynasty. He was a big part of it. He was one of the reasons that the Clay Thompson for Kevin Love trade didn't happen. He was one of the reasons that I think they signed Steph Curry to the extension. And everything that's happened, he was heavily involved with. And now the team's kind of built. He was one of the reasons that I think they signed Steph Curry to the extension.

Everything that's happened, he was heavily involved with, and now the team's kind of built. And KD's coming back. I think that extension's already kind of done in a handshake way. And they have their top four. What do you do? If you're Jerry West, and he's somebody that if you read his book or if you read anything about him, he's predisposed to being miserable and trying to find the worst case scenario of everything. He's just like a fatalist.

This is the cushiest, most perfect situation. It's not for him. He needs the Clippers. That's what he needs, right? I mean, look, with Jerry West, you're still a competitor at heart. And I think for a lot of front office executives across the league, sometimes there can be a lack of fulfillment in the sense that whether you're winning it all every year like they are with the Warriors, like you said, his job is done, or if you're not,

you may have a hand in decision-making, but not really. So sometimes what happens on the court, it might not feel like you're getting it back, all the work that you put into it. So with Jerry West, if he wants to have his hands in bringing the Clippers to glory, potentially, it seems like a great opportunity for a competitor in his 70s who still has an itch to win. I mean, if he's not getting that with the Warriors, then I think Clippers would be great for him. Yeah, and I'm sure he's talked himself into feeling a little marginalized. There's so many people that

are involved with the Warriors it's going great and I'm you know the Clips is the most jinxed franchise we have in the NBA they've never made it to round three ever they've they've just been snake bit at every turn and they're at a really interesting point with Chris Paul. He has a big free agent option that he can... Is it a free agent option or is he an actual free agent? I can't remember. I think it's either. It doesn't matter.

He's picking his next contract. Termination option, yeah. Yeah, Blake has that too. Let's actually skip ahead to that one because I think West is going there. I think they need somebody. The story is about, you know, just how crazy that season was last year with the clips and some of the behind the scenes stuff and the lack of accountability and all kinds of stuff. It is just not good. And people showing up late for practices and game

film things and not great. So it'll be a start if they have somebody who actually can devote their full time to picking the roster and things like that. Two big decisions. One of which is another appetizer, Chris Paul to the Spurs. Oh, I never asked you. After each one of these, we're deciding how much we believe it from a scale of 1 to 10. I'm going to go with a 9 for West of the Clippers. What do you go for that one?

7. Okay. Chris Paul to the Spurs. I don't see Chris Paul after 12 years in the league with some miles on him. Little guys don't age well in the NBA, as we know. Hard for me to believe he's walking away from 201 guaranteed for five years. Also hard for me to believe that the Spurs are going to gut all of their role players and tie up all their cap space in a Kawhi, LaMarcus, Chris Paul nucleus

that I don't even think really puts them close to the Warriors anyway. It doesn't seem logical. It would seem more logical for them to just wait a year, wait for Gasol's contract and Parker's contract to go, and then make a move 2018 for something. This feels like a smoke screen by Chris to walk to the edge of the pool with the Clippers and go, look, I might go to the Spurs. I might go. I might go. You got to give that 201. And then they do it and it's fine and he stays.

I'm giving this one a two out of 10. What do you give it? So I think it is a negotiating tactic, but I don't necessarily think it's for the 201. I think it's for a no trade. I think he'll want the no trade on top of the 201 because, look, I mean, the Clippers, you know, a year from now, two years from now, you don't want to potentially be a guy that they move you. So if I'm Chris Paul, I'm doing everything I can

to leverage my positioning to try to also get a no trade clause. Smart. And that's what happened to Carmelo, to try to also get a no trade clause. Smart. And that's what happened to Carmelo. And now, you know, look at him. He's doing, oh, wait, he's doing terrible. But that's good. I like that. I like that wrinkle with the no trade clause.

I think you're on the right path. I just feel like they just missed their window. In 14 and 15, they probably should have made the finals in one of those years. And they had really bad luck. And I'm not sure what happens to that team though. And I certainly would not want to be building around somebody heading into years 13 through 17 of his playing career who's six feet tall. But this is where you are if you're the Clippers. You're in a city that has two baseball teams and two basketball teams and a hockey team and two soccer teams and two football teams. And what you can't do is let everybody go and be irrelevant chris keeps them relevant so they don't have a choice they got to pay the 201 all right uh the next one andre drummond is very available

very very available do you believe this one totally like a 9.5 for for andre drummond not quite a 10 because i mean i don't want to go to a 10 anywhere but like a 9.5 9 Andre Drummond. Not quite a 10, because I don't want to go to a 10 anywhere, but like a 9.5, 9.6. Drummond, I think if you're Detroit, I mean, look, I get the impression that their goal is like, get in the playoffs, get in the playoffs. It's not really, I guess, the long view in the sense that you're worried about blowing things up or taking steps back in order to win more later. I think for them, it's just about getting in the sense that you're worried about blowing things up or taking steps back in order to win more later. I think for them it's just about getting into the playoffs. That's why it's a little

surprising with the Drummond rumors, but at the same time they could still move him and still retain a competitive roster, depending on what they do this summer with Contavious Caldwell-Pope, depending on what they do with their pick, which they were reportedly looking to move, which I also believe.

I think they're going to have a very interesting summer. I think we're going to hear the Detroit Pistons in a lot of rumors. Is Drummond even make sense in 2017? In some ways, but at the same time, I mean, if the final boss for the next four or five years is the Warriors, I don't know.

I don't know if he is. And we're talking about a guy who's like a 35% free throw shooter at the end of games in the fourth quarter. He's got some major flaws. That guy is a dominant rebounder, and he can protect the rim. I feel like in a more high-powered offense, he'd be even more of a threat in the pick and roll, like a lob guy. But, man, he's got some major warts too. And I don't, I don't even know,

like if I'm another team, I don't even know if I'd want him necessarily because of the price that I think it would take. Maybe, maybe he doesn't get quite as much as people would think as a return. But if you're Detroit, maybe, maybe that's what,

what it's about is just cashing out and reshuffling the deck. And I, I think there's ways for them to maintain their, I guess, average roster with moving Drummond. But more than anything else, I'm looking forward to seeing what they get in return. What do you think that they'll be looking for, Bill? I have no idea what he's worth. And I can't even come up with three teams off the top of my head that would be like, yeah, this is a great idea. Let's build around a center who almost can't play in the last four minutes of a game.

It doesn't fit in with the pace and space, all this stuff that's going on now. And let's give up assets for this too. It's tough. This is somebody that, you know, yesterday Dwight Howard was on one of the talking head shows saying how he's going to spend the whole summer shooting threes. Good luck. That's where we are. You know, when that's the reality is that Dwight Howard realizes that to stay relevant and have a chance to win the title and to help his team, he has to learn how to shoot from 24 feet. I don't know what that means for Andre Drummond, but it's not good. I keep looking at the Nets because I think if the Nets get super creative this summer, they could be involved in a lot of different things. They don't have a pick next

year anyway. It makes sense for them to take some chances. So I think Lopez for Drummond maybe with them taking on some other something to take like another contract maybe Detroit gets rid of a contract with Drummond something like that maybe get the 12th pick too something like that yeah or whatever but that makes sense to me

it's got to be a team that's going nowhere that can roll the dice with Drummond on a different situation. He's not somebody that's going to come in and take a 500 team and push them into 50 wins. And I'm not even sure how many minutes he should be playing a game. Maybe he's used like how Milwaukee used Greg Monroe. Maybe that's his destiny. But we'll find out. I think Detroit, I'm with you. I think that 12th pick

is available. 12th pick for Avery Bradley is an interesting one. Just throwing that out there. That one makes a lot of sense, especially with Contavious Caldwell-Pope. If they don't want to match the money he's going to get this summer. The problem with Detroit is they have three guys right now making over $16 million

who are I'll say they're quality players but they're not necessarily the players that you're going to Detroit is they have three guys right now making over $16 million who are, I'll say they're quality players, but they're not necessarily the players that you're going to win with in the playoffs. Andre Drummond, Tobias Harris, Reggie Jackson. And then if you add a fourth on top of that and Contavious Caldwell Pope, I don't really know what you're doing. So I feel like I'd move on from Caldwell Pope, I think.

And Andre Drummond, I like that Lopez idea. I don't know if I love it for Detroit, but I really do like it for the Brooklyn Nets, especially if they get that 12th pick back. Because I think for them, if you're the Nets, you've got to take as many shots as you can. I love what they did last year's draft, drafting Levert. This year they got two picks in the 20s range. If you can add one in the teens and then trade up with those other picks, you're in good shape.

Take some shots. I like their front office, and I think that would be a smart move for them. I would love to see them take any bad contract they can get and get picks for it. Because, listen, they're not going to be good this season. They're not going to be good next season either. So why not? We're going to talk about the Lakers in a little bit, but the Lakers are going to be trying to shed the Mozgov contract

and the Dang contract. And if you're the Nets, you know, okay, we're happy to take one of those contracts. What else are you giving us? You want to give us both contracts and Julius Randle? We'll have the conversation. You know, I think that's how they have to be thinking. Dang and Mozgov, which is, we almost need a name for them,

for those two contracts. It was $34 million last year, and they've got three more years of each, and it's just a cap space ruiner, and the Lakers have to figure out what to do with both of them. So that's where a team like the Nets has to come in and be like, we're here, we're ready. What can we do for you? We're open for business.

We'll take a bad contract. Give us something else. All right, next one. Kings, shopping, 5 and 10 to move up. I predicted this in our Slack like three weeks ago, and our resident Kings fan, Riley McAtee, basically had a conniption. And he was part, he was, no, we're not doing that.

We're great where we are. But deep down, he knew it was in play because it's the Kings. And now there's been reports that they're trying to package five and 10 to move up. Before I ask you if this is real or not, does this make any sense if you're the Kings as our resident draft expert who helped carry our fantastic ringer NBA draft guide? Should they be even thinking this way? I don't think they should be.

I would keep those two picks and take two roles and find out what you can get. I feel like, look, De'Aaron Fox could be a really good player, but if he's a guy you're trading both of those picks for, I don't know, man. There's a lot of good point guards in this draft. Fox might want to be a king, reportedly. But I don't think that should be a reason to trade two of your highly valuable top 10 picks in what is a really, really good draft in that range.

Would you trade Cauley-Stein in the 10 for No. 8 to the Knicks? Sure. I think I would. I mean, what are you trading up for, though? Is there a player that fell to that spot that you're targeting? Or is this a pre-draft trade? If it's a pre-draft trade, no. If it's a draft-not-trade... It's a pre-draft trade.

No, I wouldn't. Well, because I was thinking, if they can get into the top eight with both picks, then they can almost wait to just see what point guard falls to them at number eight. Because there's too many point guards in the top eight. We know who the top eight is, but not all eight teams need a point guard. And somebody's going to drop. And it's probably going to be Dennis Smith. But who knows?

I think it would be insane if Fox fell out of the top four. Who knows? I don't think Fox makes sense at all for Philly, do you? No, I don't think so. But honestly, if I'm those teams in the top three, I'd be looking to trade down. Not looking to trade down, but I'd be open to the possibility of it.

So we're going to talk about that a little bit later too, but I think it's a good year for that. So you are, what do you believe? I'm, I'm at like a four out of 10. I think the Kings talk about everything and then it just somehow gets leaked to the media. I don't think they're necessarily intent on trading up, but I also think if they feel like they can get Lonzo for five and 10, I, you know, I think they're going to meet if they can get Lonzo faults or Jackson for five and 10, basically, if they can move up in the top three with five and 10, I think they have to consider it because they need us, they need a superstar. And those are the three potential superstars. What do you think?

Um, you know, I'm probably a little higher on this than you. I think maybe a six and a half, something like that. I think Fox makes a lot of sense for them. I think ultimately they should wait and hope he falls to five. But Fox and Buddy Heald is like a perfect pairing in the backcourt. And I can really see the appeal there. There's no denying Fox's talent. So I'd say a six. But at the same time, I wouldn't do it. I would hang on to those

two picks. I have a newsflash for the Kings. I like Vivek. I think he's a nice guy. Just stay at five. Fox is going to fall to five. Do the math. Work out all the scenarios. Fox might be a top three or top four talent, but he's going to fall to five. The Suns aren't going to take him. I don't think the Sixers are going to take him, and I don't think he's going one or two. Guess what that means? He's going to fall to five. So just wait.

Be patient. All right, last one. No Lonzo to the Lakers. This is juicy. I can't believe this is an appetizer. This is almost like we brought out the burrata with the prosciutto on it and some balsamic vinegar. And it's like this technically could be in the salad category. It's delicious.

Please have some of this. Lonzo, not going to the Lakers. Do you believe this one? It depends. It depends on if they're able to trade down, which is, again, something we'll talk about later. But I think ultimately he goes in that two spot. I think ultimately that's where he goes.

Whether it's the Lakers or somebody else, I think that's where Lonzo will stay. I think if you're the Lakers, they're doing the right thing. They should look around. There's a lot of good talent in this draft. Lonzo's not even two on my board. I have Jason Tatum at two ahead of Lonzo. I think

the Lakers are wise to be looking around. I think Colin Coward put it best yesterday. I still ride for Colin Coward sometimes on his takes. I don't agree with half of them, but sometimes he'll have a good one, and he had one this week that I 100% agreed with and was thinking myself.

It makes sense for them to play it this way. And they've kept their cards close to the vest and everything's in play. And it's a nice little power move for them with ball in the family. But it doesn't mean they're not taking him. I think it's more real than people seem to realize that Josh Jackson could go in the two spot. I think that's a real possibility. And look, I spent a year with Magic watching basketball games with him

in this little conference room, basically, on the fifth floor of LA Live, where we would watch eight basketball games at once. And we spent a lot of time in there. And I have a pretty good feel for what he likes and doesn't like as a player. And he loves competitive guys. That's what he likes. He loves competitive guys. He likes gamers. He likes people that show up two hours early.

He likes people that remind himself of him. And Lonzo, as I ride for Lonzo, I think he should be the second pick. But if you study that March Madness game, Fox got super competitive with Lonzo, and Lonzo kind of ran away from it. And it was a concern. It was the first time I wavered a little bit on Lonzo. I didn't like that Fox picked him up at full court and Lonzo just tried to get rid of the ball. And Lonzo didn't be like, Oh, you're going to challenge me this way. Like, imagine if somebody did that to, I don't know, Kyrie Irving. And I'm going to pick you up full court.

Kyrie would take it personally. Lonzo didn't take it personally. And I don't know. I think Magic, if he's making the call and we don't know if he is, Magic gravitates to competitive guys. Now, Palenka might be making all the final calls. And if that's the case, then Magic will give his take and whatever. But I don't think this is a slam dunk

like everyone seems to think. And by the way, I think it's a mistake if Lonzo doesn't go too. Even with everything I just said, I just think he has the highest upside and I wouldn't be worried about his dad. His dad will be fine. You can manage people's parents.

What parent has ever uprooted a basketball team? I think it's an added headache, but if the guy's great, it doesn't matter. So would you agree that Lonzo is the second highest ceiling in this draft other than Fultz? I still have Tatum ahead of him, but with Lonzo. Hold on. With a ceiling, though? You think Tatum's ceiling is higher than Lonzo?

Yeah. I mean, so with Lonzo Ball, you mentioned how he just kind of faded away in that last game against Fox. I don't know if it was as much his mental makeup he faded away. I think it was just the fact that this is where my concern is with him. It's the one flaw that really sticks out is his ability to create off the dribble

without a screen in the half court. We've talked about this with Kyrie Irving. You mentioned him. He doesn't without a screen in the half court like we've talked about this you know with Kyrie Irving you know you mentioned him his ability he doesn't need a screen to create Lonzo Ball isn't really a type of guy who creates off the dribble for you in the half court and that was the problem for him against Fox and that's where he needs to improve so much he needs to improve his ball handling needs to improve his first step like the the thing that makes Lonzo so special is his ability just to get the ball and pass it right away. Like, he's not a ball-dominant point guard like a lot of guys are. So that's the appeal with Lonzo.

But the issue with that is, like, you're not always going to be able to have him in that situation. So with Lonzo, I love him. And I agree 100% that his dad is kind of a little bit overblown. I think in some situations, potentially, it could be a little bit of an issue, but I feel like it's more a fantasy more than anything else, and in all likelihood, it's not going to be a problem. But with Lonzo, look, I think Josh Jackson would be appealing for them. I think Tatum would be appealing for the Lakers.

I think Fox would be appealing if they would have traded down, but ultimately, I think it should be Lonzo. I think he's the right fit for the direction they're going. I think at the same time, I wouldn't trade D'Angelo Russell if you bring in Lonzo either. I'd hang on to both those guys for the time being at least. Hold that thought. Let's talk about my old friend MeUndies for one second. Pride starts on the inside.

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The most fun situation is if he ends up on the Suns, which we're going to talk about later. But I really want Lonzo to go to a team that makes sense for him, for what he's good at and what he does. And I think he needs to be with a second guard that is one of those shoot-first pseudo-point guards, but not really. Like Devin Booker, like Kyrie Irving, those type, Damian Lillard, those kind of guys who are ball dominant,

but not the traditional point guards. And then Lonzo just fits in next to them and his passing fills in all the blanks. A lot like what LeBron does with the Cavs, with Kyrie as kind of the shooting guard who handles the ball a lot, but is really a shooter, which Kyrie does for them. Although in this Warrior series, which I guess we'll talk about at the tail end of this, it's been weird to me that LeBron's had the ball all the time.

I don't know why they haven't put the ball in Kyrie's hands more. It's strange. But anyway, Lonzo to the Lakers with Russell, I guess, technically fills that thing. I just think defensively those two are going to get demolished. Not that Booker would be much better with Lonzo, but Russell and Lonzo, that could yield the first 100-point game, right, for somebody? That would be like their own version of Lillard and McCollum, potentially. Yeah, like a worse version. Yeah, a worse version.

If they reach their peaks offensively, it could be good, but defensively it would be problematic. Lonzo will be good defensively, though, to be fair. I don't think he'll be great, but he'll be good. Russell, I think, is really the concern defensively. Would you trade Russell for the fifth pick? Yeah. I like Russell a lot.

That's one of my dudes. I don't think people should give up on him at all after two years. He's going to be a good player, but I like some of the guys that would be available at five more than I would do, more than I would like Russell,

especially if you're taking Lonzo too. I think you get a really good forward at that spot. Even Josh Jackson, right? Jason Tatum. Jonathan Isaac. There's a lot of guys at that spot that if you're the Lakers, you can add one on top and really reshuffle

your assets. What if the Kings say we won't trade five for Russell but we'll give you eight? So if they did that trade you mentioned earlier, to move up to eight? No, I'm saying, oh yeah, you're right 10 okay they have 10 no

i would not 10 is that no you can't do that no no way no chance hang up would you trade russell to the knicks for eight i'd want more i'd be i'd be negotiating but the thing is like what else do they have any other asset they'd be be giving would be a future asset. I don't know if it'd be worth waiting for that. So I'm not sure I'd dip that low. I think maybe six I'd take. But seven, eight, I'm getting a little bit further away from the guys that I'd want, depending on who falls.

The thing is, on draft night, if the guy that you perceive as your fourth best prospect falls to seven, then yeah, you do it. If he falls to 10, yeah, you do it. But the thing is, pre-draft, I would not do that. On draft night, sure. It depends on who's available, though. Gotcha. Contingency traits. All right.

Let's have some salad. We're talking about the Celtics. They're our salad team this year. Not because I'm a lifelong Boston Celtics fan and love talking about the Celtics, but they're going to be in the middle of the action. They have the number one pick. They have a lot of cap space. And let's start with Gordon Hayward to the Celtics, which we had discussed on this podcast multiple times. So this is more of a check-in,

just a quick check-in on Gordon Hayward to the Celtics. We're from one to 10. Do you believe it? Where do you rank right now? I mean, I believe it at a 10 and I'd say in terms of likelihood, maybe 50%, which is pretty high.

I feel like it's going to be an appealing spot for Hayward, no denying it, especially depending on what happens on draft night, depending on what else they can do before signing him or after signing him, for that matter. I think it's certainly appealing, and I think it's 100% going to be something we're going to be talking about July 1 when free agency starts. I think you put it perfectly. I'm proud of you.

I'm proud you came to the right conclusion. I am also a 10 out of 10 in believing it. And I would, 50% seems fair. Seems like the right number. Let's talk about the backup plan. Blake Griffin. Ooh, Blake. Some Blake Griffin to the Celtics buzz.

Do you believe it? Where do you rank one out of ten? One to ten. I mean, I think the Celtics like Blake. I heard last summer, I think Doc Rivers might have denied it on Adrian Wojnowski's podcast, but I think the Clippers were at least listening to offers for Blake Griffin last summer. I think they were probably listening to offers before last year's trade deadline, too, in 2016. The problem is it's too late to trade Blake. He's a free agent this summer,

and even if he did want to sign and trade him, I don't know what kind of contract Blake is going to get this summer, because nobody in his camp would probably want to hear it. But that dude's injury history is really, really long. All the problems he's had with his left leg, then he had the knee problem in his right leg this year, all the random stuff, the back stress fracture, the right elbow, staph infection. The guy's injury list is really long. So maybe if you're the Celtics, that works in your favor. Maybe you're more willing to give him a short-term max deal

for two years with a third-year option instead of the full four years. Or if you're the Clippers, maybe you're not willing to go to four years because, look, that's a risk. That's a risk with all the injuries he's had. No matter how great he is, I think he's unbelievable when he's healthy. The problem is the best ability is availability, and Blake hasn't been very available in the past couple years.

So maybe for the Celtics you do view that as uh giving him a shorter term max deal but I don't know I don't really really know what the Clippers are going to do with that either would you give three years 85 million to Blake no options no no fourth year player no options i'm on the boat for three years with blake for 85 million or whatever boy uh so hayward's hayward's off the table re-sign in utah saying hayward's off the table hayward says look i'm flattered i have to stay in utah i like it here you know i i i don't think i i don't think i would but at the same time that's a really hard thing to say no to because Blake is so damn good. And I want to see Blake on a team where he plays small ball five.

I want to see him running more point. I know he averaged like seven assists per game with the Clippers, but I think he's capable of more playmaking. I think in a different situation, he could be really special. If he was your point center, I wrote an article last August, and I think it was first thing i wrote for the ringer just about does blake griffin have another gear and i think he does yeah the problem is is can he be healthy enough to get to that gear so look 385 is really

appealing but i'd prefer i'd prefer an option in that third year and that that's what i'd be pushing for a team option for that third year i don't know if his camp would take it i don't think it's enough but um but that's what I'd be pushing for and what I'd prefer. Here's how it'll play out. I mean, this is all hypothetical, and now we have a hypothetical off a hypothetical,

but I don't think they would go four years for Blake. I think the Clippers have no choice, and the Clippers are just going to be stuck with $201 million for Chris and then four years max for Blake. And maybe the attitude is you sign them and then you figure it out in December. The Clippers have to keep them.

They can always flip them in December. Now, if Blake said to them, I want a no trade clause if I'm staying, now what do you do if you're the Clippers? You can't do that, I don't think. Of course not. We definitely wouldn't give Blake a new trade. I think that delayed sign and trade, that would be ultimately the appeal in re-signing Blake because they have,

as of now, they missed their opportunity to maximize a return for Blake Griffin. But if they re-sign him and then they're able to trade him next February, February 2018, well, you know, it happens. I think that would be the best thing for the Clippers to do.

But at the same time, no trade. You can't give them no trade. That's for damn sure. And I don't think he has the leverage to even ask for it, though. All right. That was like a Caesar salad. But we have the antipasta coming. But first, if you're like me and you're not so great at planning ahead, I've got good news for you.

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I don't totally understand it, but I'm into it. Staycation. Hey, if your favorite sports team made the NBA finals and are about to get swept and you want to get into Cleveland for or about to sweep somebody in the finals and you want to get to Cleveland to see it, try a hotel tonight. That's the app's name. Book up to a week in advance. All it takes is 10 seconds, three taps and a swipe. Get in on these killer last minute deals. Download the Hotel Tonight app now. All right. We've had a lot of food already, but now the big stuff's

coming. Now the big guns. We just had big antipasta salad. It's got a whole bunch of stuff. That's this next topic. I'm shocked by how many people... I wasn't even at game one for that long. I was shocked by how many people asked me this. I'm shocked by how many people are texting it to me. I didn't expect it. I don't know how I feel about it, but let's just come right out with it. Around the league, people are really fascinated whether the Celtics are going to trade Isaiah Thomas this summer. This is a real storyline that everybody is talking about. And it's just startling when you think about the season he had, how much people love him, the fact that they made the conference finals,

the fact that he's coming off a historic offensive season. I think he has a chance to even get a little bit better, assuming his hip is 100% healthy, which we don't know. He's under the best contract in the league, and they're only paying him like $7 million next year. They don't have to worry about an extension for him for a year. I think he could play really well with Markel Fultz potentially. And yet people keep asking, what are they doing about Isaiah? Are they trading him? They're going to trade him this summer, right? Is this smoke or fire?

I think there's some logic to it, for sure. If somebody totally overwhelms the Celtics. Danny Ainge has always said there's no such thing as an untouchable. And I believe him. Why wouldn't you believe him? You look at his history. He traded Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett when a lot of fans at the time were furious about it. Me too.

I was one of them. First trade was Antoine Walker years ago. That was, I think, the first move he made, trading a fan favorite in Antoine. He's not afraid to make big moves that go against what he's on. Don't sleep on. He traded the No. 5 lottery pick in 07 which was in the moment bizarre it was like great we have ray allen and paul paris what what is that that's 44 wins next year that gets us nowhere why are we doing this so yeah i agree with you if somebody if somebody is going to over overwhelm them for a five foot nine point guard coming off a major hip injury that's that's about to demand

a max contract then maybe you think about it. Isaiah is unbelievable. And I can't recall a time in my lifetime where a person who scored 29 points per game was involved in should they keep him or should they trade him after the season so quickly like it's been for Isaiah. I think if you sign Hayward and you're able to do some other nice stuff,

you keep IT. But if you enter this summer and if somebody's dangling the to do some other nice stuff you keep it but if you if you enter this summer and there's like if somebody's dangling the five pick six pick for you maybe you think about that i i think there's some logic to really maximizing these next two drafts i think 17 and 18 especially these some of these guys are gonna they're gonna get picked are gonna be the guys who define kind of the next decade of basketball like the warriors aren't going to last forever right so yeah if you're able to get some of those guys who are going to be those players that you need to win titles those cornerstones this this these are the next two drafts where i think there's a lot of those guys michael port

and luca donkich next year uh foltz this year and there's going to be other guys too that surprise us so if you're able to get those guys, maybe think about it. But it would have to be an overwhelming offer. So where do you, one to ten, where do you stand? Probably like a four, five. I just don't think they'd ultimately do it. But I think it's something that I think should be something they think about. Everything should be on the table.

But maybe a four or five. I'm a ten out of ten for this being a story that everybody's talking about. I'm a two out of 10 for there being any truth to it, and here's why. He's not healthy. That hip injury he has is a real injury, and we haven't really gotten a lot of information about it since it happened. It seems like he got hurt in mid-March, and then he made it worse during the playoffs,

maybe even two different times. It's a hip injury, which makes me nervous. There's a checkered history with this injury. Some people have come back and come back 100%. Other people haven't. Like Johnny Flynn, it ended his career basically. So it makes me think it's just hard to trade somebody who is probably going to have to go under the knife. Whether it's like a major surgery or whether it's like an arthroscopic surgery and it's six weeks and he's fine, I don't know. But it seems to be more likely that this trade would happen in February

if it was ever going to happen. January, February range. That timing makes sense. It would have to be overwhelming. Whenever it happens. It would have to be picked this year, picked two years from now. Young player asset currently in the league. It would need to be a ridiculous offer.

I don't see that happening especially after the injury i think you're thinking about this the wrong way why can't it be for another good player could be why couldn't it be say isaiah and jay crowder for jimmy butler could work could work then have markel fultz be your young point guard. I wrote an article a couple weeks back about historically, you know, you look at the amount of money the point guard on championship rosters make, it's fairly cheap. It's not like a high-paid position historically. So I think in terms of that roster construct, you could have a young point guard and Fultz

on a cheap deal for years and have a high-powered offense around him. Butler, Hayward, Horford, whoever else. That could make some sense. That could. I don't think he's going to get traded, but I do think that Danny Ainge is wired exactly like Bill Belichick is,

which is why we have to have the conversation. This isn't... I'm not just having a conversation just to be like, oh, let's talk about stuff and get a message board thread going. Like Danny Ainge is like Belichick. The moment he feels like something has outlived his usefulness

or that he can turn an asset into a better asset, he's doing it. It's just how he's wired. And think about it this way. What would Belichick do with Isaiah Thomas? Do you see Belichick paying Isaiah Thomas 200 million over five years, a year from now? Do you see him paying a 34 year old five, seven point guard, $40 million a year? I don't think Belichick would do it. That's a question. I think a lot of front office, front office executives should be asking

themselves, would Belichick do this? That be uh the gauge you use to know whether you should do a move or not it is funny like the warriors how they had like jerry west as a consultant it would be funny if they use belichick as a consultant you know or if the celtics did or just like i know you know nothing about basketball but can we pay you three million dollars a year just to ask you what you would do in different situations? You'd be like, hey, Bill, I know you know nothing, but remember that short point guard we have? Would you pay him $40 million when he's 34? And Belichick would be, no way. I'd get rid of him.

I'd get rid of him now. It's an interesting thought, anyway. I'd love to know what Belichick would say about Klay Thompson. Would he say, trade Klay and have a younger player with younger assets filling that role instead of paying him as the fourth guy as a max contract? What would Belichick do in that sense? Would he want to redistribute Klay's talents elsewhere on the roster to have sustainability? That's the key. It's about sustaining success over a long period of time because that team is going to get expensive.

I just had this conversation with somebody. So the smart move would be to turn Klay into two players because once you pay Curry and you have Durant, Curry, and Draymond to have four guys, you're basically at that point just banking on year after year trying to grab the David West types to fill out the rotation parts of the roster. And if you could replace Klay with a much cheaper shooter and then pick up a second asset, you have to think about it. I just don't know what that trade is and how many guards you could find that could shoot threes and stretch the floor like Clay does. It's not a common thing.

Hypothetically, I don't think this would ever happen. But let's say the Celtics said we'll give you Avery Bradley and next year's Brooklyn pick for Clay. Depends on the money Bradley's going to get because he's going to be costly too. Right. So you're renting Bradley for a year at a cheaper price, which saves you for a year, but then ultimately you're going to have to pay him, too. So then the hope would be, well, then we'll have that draft pick, and we can turn that

into something. It's too risky. So I don't know what the right trade is to turn Clay into two assets, but on paper, that's what they should do. They should be trying to turn him into multiple pieces, because it's just too hard to pay the four. I don't think they're going to do that. And they'll probably just bank on the goodwill of all the veterans who want to play with them. All right, we're moving to dinner. All these three things are connected. The first one is Paul George. This one's all over the map.

I don't even know how to pigeonhole this into a question. I've heard that he's staying for a year because he's smart enough to know that if he makes the Lakers trade assets for him now, that just hurts the team he's going to, a la Carmelo in 2011. Why would he do that? Just ride it out with Indiana for a year and then sign with the Lakers? And I've heard the opposite. I've heard he just wants to go there now, and he doesn't care if they have to give up assets. He just wants to go. What have you heard?

What do you think? What do you believe? At the trade deadline, I thought the Pacers were wise to wait until the summer because depending on who won the lottery, there could be a team that's able to overwhelm them. And I thought there might be more suitors available, but I was wrong. I think it's the opposite. Because of the rumblings that Paul George wants to go to the Lakers next year or this summer, whatever it is, I don't think teams are willing to take that risk.

If you're going to trade a hell of a lot for him, you're not going to do it because the chances are he's going to leave next year, whether it's to the Lakers or to a winning organization. So if you're Phoenix or you're Sacramento or Orlando, any team with a pick in the top 10, you're not going to take that risk. And if you're Indiana, if the price is low for him, let's just say it's an offer that you look at and say, why would the Pacers do that? That's exactly what you're saying.

It comes to the point where Indiana would be better off hanging on to him and hoping that they can build a winner around him rather than just taking what they can get. I think that's the threshold where Indiana's at right now, where nobody's offering a deal where it makes sense over just banking on him staying. You might be better off taking that risk or just hanging on until February and seeing what happens at that point. So if Paul George made the All-NBA this year, this coming season, wouldn't that flip how much they could offer him as a free agent? Yeah, and that could happen next year, too. season, wouldn't that flip how much they could offer him as a free agent? Yeah, and that could happen next year, too. He could be named to All-NBA next year and then be able to sign that big max deal. Yeah, he could be second team All-NBA next year, and then they could offer him another 15.

I would keep him. Do you think that would be enough, though? Do you think that would be enough? Is the money so overwhelming? I feel like that might be a little bit overrated in certain situations. It might be, but it's better than the situation there now, because I think the Celtics are smart enough to realize that it's just not, it's too risky to trade for him because he's the, the, the rumors are so strong about him in LA that, um that it's too risky. You're not giving up a defined, guaranteed,

awesome asset for somebody who could just split in a year. I think the only way he could do it is if he guaranteed he would stay, but how do you even guarantee that with a year to go? Yeah. Well, I don't trust a wink wink. One thing, listen, everything we're doing on this podcast, this is like if Kevin and I were shooting the shit in the phone and we're just taping it for a podcast and we're just talking about things we've heard. If we say that we've 100% I've heard this and I'm reporting this on the podcast, we'll say it.

I'm just talking out loud. If the Cavs get swept and I'm Indiana, do I try to get Kevin Love for Paul George? And basically the Cavs rent Paul George for a year and get out of Kevin Love's contract anyway, because if LeBron leaves after next season, which we're going to talk about in a second, they go all in for one more title. And if you're Indiana, you lock down Love and you get a real guy for him. So interesting thought, right? Yes. So the funny thing is, is like someone someone who I've talked to about LeBron leaving texted me yesterday and we were talking exactly about this. Like if you're the Cavaliers, would you try to flip love for George for a year?

So it's funny that you bring that up. He was just, you know, speculating as well. It wasn't like anything he's heard or anything. It's just, you know, this makes sense. It does make sense. It makes a hell of a lot of sense for both teams i don't know if you're indiana i don't know if you'd want love over like younger future assets though that that that's where i keep going back to is would you rather have a 20 year 28 year old kevin love who's you know suffered some knee injuries the past couple years who's going to be a phrasian in 2019

or would you rather settle not not settle but would you rather have those younger assets or would you still rather hang on to paul george uh and hope he resigns if he gets that um all nba next year i don't know if i do it if i was indiana if you're cavaliers 100 you do that that's for damn sure but i don't know about indiana all right i'm gonna give you two questions paul george is on the Pacers on July 15th Where do you rank that one from 1 to 10? 7 7 that's where I'm at. Okay Paul George is traded before the NBA draft on July 24th or June 24th. Whenever it is. Where do you rank that one?

A 2 June 24th, whenever it is, where do you rank that one? A two. A two. I just don't think he'll get traded before. I think if he gets traded, it would be a draft night trade. Draft night trade, okay. But that would be if it's the Lakers. If it's like the Celtics, I don't think it would happen until after Hayward signed because of the order of operations that would be necessary to make it happen.

I don't think that would happen anyway, but if it were to happen, I think those two situations are when the timing would have to be. So you think like Russell, Randall, and a contract for Paul George? Not the number two pick. I wouldn't do that. Not the number two pick. I'd hang on. I'd wait. I'd wait.

I'd wait. I don't think the Lakers would include Brandon Ingram for sure. I don't think he's on the table at all. I think Russell and Randall are absolutely the assets. And if I'm Indiana, I'm waiting. I'm holding on, hoping that some desperate team during the season is willing to take the risk. Maybe that doesn't happen. You know what?

But at the same time, maybe the Lakers are still a viable destination during the year too. to take the risk. Maybe that doesn't happen. You know what? But at the same time, maybe the Lakers are still a viable destination during the year too. So I'd wait if I'm the Indiana Pacers and that's the best available offer. Hang on. Just wait. Be patient. I would wait as well, and I think we already have a model for how this should be handled,

which is how Flip Saunders handled Kevin Luff. Makes sense. They ended up getting the number one pick. Yeah, he waited. He didn't like any of the trades. He waited, he waited, and then it happened. All right, quick break to talk about movement. Started by two broke college kids

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Join the movement. Hey, guess what? Our entrees are here. Oh, boy. It's timevmt.com slash bill. Join the movement. Hey, guess what? Our entrees are here. Oh boy. It's time. LeBron. It's time. So there's a lot of buzz about will LeBron end up finishing his career in Cleveland?

It's been discussed. It's been whispered. It's been discussed some some more it's a topic that is happening jaylen rose my buddy was on first take today talking about it he was on first take with a crowd of cleveland fans surrounding him and turned around and said to them i don't think lebron is going to finish his career in cleveland i think he's going to finish his career for a California team. And then he was like, that's not the Clippers, the Kings, who are the Warriors.

So basically he's saying the Lakers. So just here's what we know. We know LeBron has a $20 million house in Brentwood. We know that LeBron's empire, which isn't really an empire yet, but all the media stuff that he's doing and his production company is based in Burbank. And we know he loves and respects Magic Johnson. So that's really all the information we have. What can you add to the periphery of this story that's not a story yet?

Okay. to the periphery of this story that's not a story yet. Okay, so two guys that I really trust for this type of stuff is they think LeBron will be going to L.A., whether it's the Lakers or the Clippers, more likely the Lakers. They think 2018, LeBron's going to see that the Cavaliers are fizzled out and that he can have a younger, more sustainable, but still extremely talented roster, possibly in L.A. next to Paul George. LeBron James and Paul George with the Lakers

can make sense, especially if L.A. is able to move some cap around, get rid of Dang and Mozgov, open up some cap space. It's something that could make sense. And if you're LeBron, what was so appealing about Cleveland? You had a younger superstar in Kyrie Irving who could help carry you when you needed it.

Kevin Love was younger as well. You had those two assets. But then, you know, the NBA changed and suddenly Kevin Love's value has declined a little bit. His importance in today's league isn't quite as it was as that post-scorer a couple years ago. That changed. isn't quite it was is that uh post score a couple years ago um that changed uh they signed jr smith and thompson for a hell of a lot of money which kind of uh crippled their ability to add uh players on the back end of their roster we're seeing that now in the finals they can't they're all offensive matchups can't defend they're all defense matchups can't score the roster construct

is a problem that's that's the inherent issue with them so if you're lebron and all you care about is championships you're looking at the lakers and they're a team who could have a young rising superstar in Brandon Ingram on top of you and maybe a guy like Paul George and whatever else they add. How's that not super appealing? And that's the sense I get. And one other thing, Bill, that I think is worthy of pointing out here is at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, David Griffin was on a panel with Bob Myers and Masai Ujiri from the Toronto Raptors. And he said something interesting to a question. Basically, he was talking about how they traded that top 10 protected 29 first round draft pick for Kyle Korver.

And he said, quote, I'm reading this right here. He said, quote, it may not look good on the books moving forward. And people may say, oh, my God, they mortgage their future. Well, if LeBron and Kevin and Kyrie are gone and we become a lottery pick, we'll have those picks because they're protected. That's just a weird thing to say. It says nothing more to me than it's at least something that's on his mind, that the possibility of Lebron leaving is something

that even they're thinking about the fact that he would say admit that they put the top 10 protection on there for that specific reason at least says that they know that's a real possibility that's it and i think that that david griffin comment is really one of the most illuminating things on top of all the conversations that are happening like in NBA circles behind the scenes. There's a lot of smoke. Put it that way. I agree. There's a lot of smoke.

And it's very strange that he said that. My question is, so I believe it's in play. I don't think there's any question. I just think he's better off in the East if he wants to keep winning titles. Like you talked about the Lakers, Paul George. Well, Paul George, you know, is not as good as Kyrie Irving and certainly does not have the big game resume that Kyrie Irving does. You're in the West,

which means you have to go through not just the words, but the spurs and just the Western conference perennially has just been better. Unless you're really convinced that Boston and Milwaukee specifically are going to go to two other levels over these next two years. It's pretty nice to be in the East. And he has a team that knows what it is and has a move to make. If the problem is they have to turn Kevin Love

into a perimeter type of person who allows them to just play Tristan Thompson as the only big and LeBron at the four. That's pretty solvable. There's a lot of destinations you can send Kevin Love. I think it is much more realistic that he stays in Cleveland and that Love becomes not the fall guy, but just the move that they have to make this summer

to try to keep winning championships. To me, it's like if they get swept or they lose in five and it's convincing, I would put a Love trade at like 8 out of 10, and I would put the possibility of LeBron leaving at 1.5 or 2 to 10. I think he cares too much about what people think and especially what people around here think. And if he's ditching them just to go to LA to try to win championships, it's not as good of a situation.

I don't think right now, unless they, but it might. Yeah. But I mean, you'd have to, they'd have to nail that pick. They would have to get incredible strides from Brandon Ingram.

To be honest, I just didn't really see the seeds last year. Did you? Do you see the seeds with Brandon Ingram for him to be a superstar? I don't know about superstar, but maybe a high level, your second star. And if because you have George and LeBron on top of it, he's your third guy, I like Ingram a lot, Phil. I think Ingram got off to a really slow start, but expectations were too high for him in the first place.

He's going to be a really good player. Four years from now, maybe? Maybe two years from now. I think LeBron expressed his willingness to be patient with that Cavaliers roster when he joined them. He said in his letter that he knows it's going to take time, blah, blah, blah, etc. I think it would be a similar thing

if he were to go to the Lakers. Wait a second. He wasn't patient. They traded him to the Lakers for love. But still. Went and signed a whole bunch of old people. They did the J.R. Smith contract. Where was the patience? He murdered their cap through the decade with no patience.

GM LeBron did make some harsh short-term decisions that are going to screw him in the end. Well, the J.R. Smith one is like, wow. I mean, that guy was MIA in the first two games and they got two more years of him. But put it this way, Kyrie Irving reached a higher level, I think, quicker than maybe even he expected. Put it that way. Like, everything else, they went young. But Kyrie reached a higher level, like, immediately. I mean, right away, Kyrie became a superstar-level player.

When before that, like, I think everybody acknowledged that he was a great point guard with the potential to be special. But he reached that level immediately. And we're seeing that more now than ever. I think people thought he was a great talent, but to me, I felt like he was one of those Steve Francis type guys, like good stats on a bad team. He's completely overachieved from what I thought he was, but I think we could also say Love underachieved a little bit. Even if he's been better this year, the guy they thought they were getting was one of the best 10 players in the league, and he just never got to that level. Really, Kyrie was a little bit of

a seesaw. Kyrie overachieved a little. Kevin Love underachieved a little. But all right, for this Lakers thing to become a reality, we have to bring the potatoes in. The potatoes and the rice and the asparagus with the brunette sauce. A Lakers-Sun pick swap, which I forget where this rumor floated around, but I was surprised it didn't get more play. You hear so many trade rumors. Here's one that actually makes sense. The Suns have too many assets um they have some cap space they have the possibility of teaming up lonzo and booker which i just think would be

fantastic offensively it would really be that'd be one of the most fun back courts in a long time. And you know, if you're the Lakers, you have to get rid of the Moskov contract and the Dan contract. Now conceivably, you could get rid of one and then stretch the other to create some space, but you have to get rid of at least one. If the Lakers moved backwards two spots and dumped one of those contracts on Phoenix and Phoenix moved up those two spots, grabbed the contract, and got Lonzo. Doesn't everyone win or am I crazy? By the way, this is conjecture. This is just me looking at all the rosters, trade machine,

and playing off what that swap could be. But doesn't that trade make sense? It makes sense if you perceive that Lonzo isn't your guy at two if i mean you can't be doing that with the the slimmer hopes of hoping for lebron and george next summer it needs to be that you need to be looking at that deal independently and everything else needs to be like uh the cherry on top essentially right so you do need to move those deals you're thinking lonzo's not we're not totally convinced on Lonzo at two. We think we can get somebody awesome at four.

Absolutely. We get a chess piece and we need to clear space because we think we have a real chance at LeBron in a year. Yes. So it would be the type of thing where like, we want to take Fox at two. We want to take Jackson at two, but we know he'll be there at four. That would need to be the logic behind the deal. And then everything else on top of that is the extra sauce to make that deal 100% worth

it, because you do need to move Deng and Mozgov. And I think it would be a little bit easier for them to do that this summer, more so than next summer, because you don't have your pick next year. So you lose out on that asset that you could package in deals. So I think if you're the Lakers, move on from them as soon as you can. Get rid of Dang. Get rid of Mozgov. Even Jordan Clarkson, to an extent, he might

be a guy that you could potentially be moving to. Yeah, and teams would take Jordan Clarkson. He's a good player. Yeah, you like him way more than I do. I don't know if I like him a whole lot. I don't like paying $12 million. I like Clarkson, though.

I think at his price point, like $12 million, that's fair. I just don't like it. I feel the same way about Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers. Actually, I'm in the minority of I really actually think Austin Rivers is a valuable bench guy. I just don't like paying $12 million for a guard. Yeah, I did second team all D. I don't love paying $12 million for a guard that can't start for me. It's one of my rules.

I just feel like I can get guards. Guards are available. You can get guards every year. So anyway, the Lakers would have to clear some space. They would have to make it so that summer to summer 2018, what's their pick situation. It's like top one protected this year. They're great.

They're basically going to lose their pick. Uh, yeah. So next, next summer, next year. Yeah. Next summer.

They're losing next year's it's, it They're losing next year. It's gone. No pick next year. Yeah, no pick. Phoenix. So Phoenix gets that pick next year. No, next year's pick goes to the Sixers. Oh, Philly gets it. Philly gets the pick next year.

So Philly's still loaded thanks to Sam Hinckley and all the deals he made. So they have the Lakers pick next year. So Philly's still loaded thanks to Sam Hinckley and all the deals he made. So they have the Lakers pick next year. Sixers could have two shots and another loaded draft, which is remarkable. If you were Philly, would you trade three

and give the Lakers pick back to the Lakers to move up one spot to get Lonzo? No, I wouldn't. I love next year's drafts up top. I think there's going to be some franchise changers in that top

three, four range. That hang on. What's that guy's name? Luka Doncic? Luka Doncic. Michael Porter. Michael Porter I've seen on YouTube. I haven't really thrown myself into the 18 draft. I feel like Brooklyn is going to break my heart with next year's draft,

but I can't complain after what that trade brought. If Lynn had been healthy this whole year, I don't think there's any chance the Celtics get the top pick. I think they would have won 32 games. Kenny Atkinson's a good coach. We'll see who throws

their hat in that ring for next year. Could be some tanking next year. Yeah, I'll tell you one team it's not going to be is Brooklyn. They're not helping the Celtics. Exactly. All right, we did a good job, right? Did we hit everything? The only possibility we didn't hit is the Clippers for LeBron.

If he wants to have a banana boat reunion with Chris Paul, if Chris Paul re-signs with the Clippers and they're able to get Carmelo Anthony and whatever else, and LeBron expresses his desire like he did before. I mean, he said to Howard Beck in an interview last year that he wants to play with his buddies. And whether it's for only a year or two, I think that could always be a possibility too. One of the guys I talked to doesn't think it is thinks it doesn't make any sense the other one the other one says that that's real that he does want to play with his guys um so i i don't know i don't think the clippers make a hell of a lot of sense for lebron

i think the lakers do from a from a sustainable winning perspective i think it'd be a waste of a couple years if he were to go to the clippers with an older roster he should be thinking long term as well so as part of that Blake would have to trade they'd have to sign Blake and then trade him in like December for Carmelo yeah it would have to be that type of thing where where Paul re-signs Blake re-signs but then Blake is flipped at some point for Carmelo and whatever else it might be I I don't I don't love that idea for Leron, but I do love the Lakers as a path for him. Chicago buys out Dwayne Wade in February. He then goes to the Clippers

and signs a deal with them. And Doc Rivers agrees to work three more hours a week, pushing him up to 33. Let's golfing for Doc. Now he'll play nine.

On Tuesdays, just nine. Only time for nine. He'll come in early on Tuesdays. All right. This is good. Good times. You got another piece coming on Friday, right? You got something coming Friday.

You don't know what yet. Yeah. I'll be writing about the game tonight. And then going to do a little follow-up on some LeBron stuff that, you know, some stuff we touched on some stuff, you know, ideas that we really didn't. So some, some, I didn't want to talk. Yeah. I didn't want to talk too much about the game tonight because for most, for most people, by the time they hear this, the game will have already happened. So that's why we concentrated on

future stuff, but just, I wanted to go on the record quickly. I fully expect a monster, monster LeBron game tonight. And for this reason, he just spent the last two and a half days listening to conversations about how, is KD the best player in the world? That came too quick. Yeah, I don't think he enjoyed that. LeBron claims he doesn't hear anything, but LeBron hears everything. And the storyline coming out of game two was, wow, KD. Is KD the best player in the world?

LeBron's going to be home. His role guys will show up because guys like JR are better at home. Role players in general are usually better at home, although their game three performance against the Celtics was pretty bizarre. But I just feel like the energy in that building is going to be there. I would not be surprised if Kevin Durant, they just immediately whistle him for two fouls a minute in. Just like, foul, wait, what did I do?

I've just stayed here. Foul, oh, another one, technical, you have two fouls. I think if there was ever a game for them to call, you know, LeBron's like, like Will Chamberlain and Shaq, like where you could, you could call the other team for 40 fouls against LeBron, or you could call them for eight, you know? And if there was ever the type of game where they're, they're going to be calling every tic-tac, everything, it would have to be this one. But the thing that shocks me, by the way,

that was all conspiracy talk right there. The thing that shocks me about this series, though, really super quickly, Tyloo going fast and it not working in game one, and then them doubling down on it on that strategy in game two i just mystified by it i don't know it's the it's the exact opposite of what i would do i just feel like they have to slow it down save lebron for all four quarters make it an ugly game make it a game with no flow make sure that it's not a track meet because that's the Warriors are so good in chaos.

They're basically trying to beat the Warriors at the brand of basketball that the Warriors are the best ever at. And I don't get it. I don't understand it. I'm, I'm stupefied by it. Were you as dumbfounded by it? Yeah. So that's one aspect that I've been surprised by.

I thought they would, you know, slow it down immediately, run, run more ISO sets, whatever before the finals and what I think they should still turn back to, run more ISO sets before the finals, and what I think they should still turn back to like they did in last year's finals. The other part, Bill, that not a lot of people are talking about is that Darren Williams is playing a lot of minutes in. I'm surprised Ty Lue didn't learn from last year's finals where Dele Vidova played a lot in games one and two, but then he barely played at all the rest of the series. So what Ty thought Ty Lue was going to do was just trim the rotation immediately. Just find your ride-or-die guys at the beginning of the series,

your six-man, seven-man rotation, and ride them. And instead, he's really leaned on his regular playoff rotation. And I thought he would trim it because last year that was one of the keys, was taking the extra fat out of the rotation and just playing your best players for more minutes. LeBron last year in the finals went from 37 minutes to 44 minutes. Kyrie went from 35 to 40. Everybody had an uptick.

Tristan Thompson went from 25 to 35. That's what they need to do. I mean, it's hard to ask LeBron for more, but you kind of need to. I think that's what it comes down to. Well, and you have to protect LeBron for more, but you kind of need to. And I think that's what it comes down to. Well, and you have to protect them with the style you're playing. I was shocked they didn't do it in Game 2 because they had the rest of, you know, Monday rest, Tuesday rest, Wednesday Game 3.

So they could have conceivably just played six guys in Game 2 and done it that way. And they did not. They doubled down on their bizarre game one strategy. I thought they were smoke screening after game one where they're like, Kyrie's like, look, man, we got to play even faster. I'm like, okay, Kyrie. Yeah, okay.

Good rope-a-dope. We know what you're going to do. And instead they came out and tried to play fast. I just think it's just self-sabotage. You can't beat the Warriors doing that. The way you beat the Warriors is how you beat them last year with a really ugly game where you get a lot of rebounds, and it's clumsy, and it's ugly, and it's ugly, and it's super ugly,

and it gets uglier and uglier, and the Warriors can't get into their flow because they can't get a hold of the pace. So maybe they'll do that tonight. We'll see. What's your prediction for tonight? Cavs lose. Warriors go up 3 do that tonight. We'll see. What's your prediction for tonight? Cavs lose. Warriors go up 3-0. I feel a lot.

I think LeBron's going to have a big game, I think. But I still think ultimately Warriors are on a way higher level. And I think even after the first two games, Warriors can even get better, too. They aren't even playing at their highest level. That's the scary, scary part, I think. Game one, they missed a ton of wide open shots. Game two, they were too sloppy. Yeah, game two, they were too sloppy.

I think Kyrie has, in game three or game four, will have one of those crazy Kyrie, hold on, Kyrie's going off kind of runs. It's just that law of averages. And it still might not matter. But I really think the Cavs are going to win tonight. When I saw that the Warriors were favored by three, I was like, oh my God, this has all the makings.

I would pick, at gunpoint, my life depended on it. I would pick the Cavs and hopefully would not end up uh you know uh anyway i i'm expecting a great one because let me tell you something if the winners win tonight game four is going to be that's going to be anticlimactic and then we'll go into the weekend with no more basketball how How much of that suck? We need the Cavs to win tonight. More draft talk if we get a sweet more time for draft talk. But I want a series, though. I want a series.

I want some fun games. I want this to be close. It needs to be close. All right. Kevin O'Connor, thank you so much. Thank you, Bill. Last note, somebody who worked for the NBA who was a big part of their family and was just a great guy, Todd Harris. He passed away this week suddenly, unexpectedly.

He's right around my age, actually. And he's just an awesome guy. And you'll see something, I'm sure, about him tonight. But was just an impactful guy with the NBA and was on the inner circle of a lot of stuff and was there a long time. I've gotten to know the NBA, you know, the inner circles of it. And, you know, it's not a ton of people and it's a, it's a lot of people that have been there for a long time. People that have been there from 1987, 1988, 1989, 90. It's one thing that they've been really, really good at

is finding good people, keeping good people. He was one of the good people. I think he'd been there for 22 years. He was involved on the broadcast side and then eventually the scheduling side too. And it was just a great guy. And you come to the finals, and then eventually the scheduling side too. And he was just a great guy. And you come to the finals.

Kevin went to his first finals this year. I've been to a bunch, and you see the same faces every year. It's always great to see them. It's literally a family. I hate that cliche sometimes in the wrong hands, but I think the NBA is definitely a family. And you see all these faces all the time, like, hey, oh, hey. And a lot of those, he was one of those faces for me and for a bunch of people.

So it's a tough, it's going to be a tough week. I think tonight's going to be tough from that respect. And I'm really feeling for the NBA people because you can see it. I'm staying at the hotel that they're at and really, really rough week for the league. So anyway, I want to say rest in peace, Todd Harris. Best wishes to your family. Best wishes to the NBA.

And hopefully we'll get a great game tonight. That was it for the BS Podcast. Thanks to Kevin. Thanks to SeatGeek. Don't forget to subscribe to the Binge Mode Game of Thrones. And we're going to be back with another podcast probably Friday morning. Until then. I feel it's within On the wayside On the brimstone

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