The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Sleeper Contenders w/ Joe House, plus Dave Grohl on the State of Music in 2020 | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to look at the top of the NBA standings. They discuss the Raptors' impressive title defense, the improving Celtics, the Pacers adjusting to Victor Oladipo's return, the 76ers' struggles, the surging Bucks, the Rockets' new plan, and more (1:55). Then Bill talks with Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters to discuss his inspirations, timeless music, the concept of a band, touring in vans, kids' relationship with music today, and much more (48:14). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Sign up for Zmail to get 15% off Zorro.com. All you need to make your business go. If you don't just like listening to this podcast, but you like hearing other podcasts with me, we did a new book of basketball podcast about Dwight Howard and his place on my Hall of Fame basketball pyramid. We also have a rewatchables coming up later in the week.

We did The Breakfast Club, one of the iconic mid-80s movies. So that's happening. Coming up, we're going to talk to Joe House, a little NBA, tiny bit of golf too. And then Dave Grohl. We did this long conversation with him at Sundance.

Have been holding it, excited to run it. And that is coming up as well. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Joe House is on the line. We almost did this last week, and a lot of the stuff we wanted to talk about last week is still really relevant this week. I want to start here, though, House.

You and I and Sal, we talk constantly about NBA futures. We get super excited about them, and then we end up losing on whatever we did. We have three heavy favorites right now. Milwaukee Bucks plus 275. Clippers 3-1. Lakers 3-1. Then after that, it drops to Rockets 15-1, Celtics 22-1, Miami 25-1,

Philly and Toronto both 25-1, Denver and Utah 30-1. And then it's basically done. Vegas is telling us there's three prohibitive favorites right now. I don't know if I feel that way. So let's start there. Does it make sense to you that there's only three favorites? Yes, it does. I'm surprised

to hear you move off of that idea. Well, you know why? Here's why I moved up. I think, I don't know what's happened with Toronto and why they haven't commanded respect from the gambling community. They've won 15 straight games.

They play their asses off. You can make a case Nick Nurse is the best coach in the league. They know who they are. They have a lot of flexibility. They can go small. They can go big. They're really hard to play. They can get stops.

They're really good at home. And at some point, we should have learned this lesson with them last year at some point you just kind of have to respect the institution and they clearly are a proven playoff contender and i don't know why vegas doesn't respect that every single thing you just said is absolutely true and let's go ahead and applaud the Toronto Raptors for the incredible job they did of coming back after losing not only their best player, but one of the top five players in the entire league. And showing out like this, like with pride, with effort, showing championship caliber kind of chops over all of this 15 game win streak. Congrats to Toronto kicking ass and taking

names. That's how you do it. But wait, hold on. Hold on before you do the don't do the but yet. I know the buts coming. Don't do it yet. Don't hold that. It's a big but I know hold the but you and I have been doing this. I like to hold

the but you and I we've been friends for 32 years and you have been doing this pod together. I like to hold the butt. You and I, we've been friends for 32 years and you've been coming on this podcast since like 2007. We love more than anything with the NBA when a team defends its title with real pride and dignity. Love that. I remember- Absolutely love it.

On this podcast, how upset we were with the Dallas Mavericks the year after they won when they let Tyson Chandler go. And they basically just kind of punted on the title defense, you know? And I, over the years, I like to met when I, especially I did this in my book, you talk about the greatest teams of all time. I actually feel like the title defense should factor into that. It was one of the reasons why I thought the 86 Celtics, when I wrote the book, was the best team of all time,

because the year after, there was so much nobility with how hard they fought to get back to the finals, and everyone was hurt and broken bones, the whole thing. I really admire what this Toronto team's doing and how they have kind of taken the championship belt and said, Kawhi might have left. We're still the champs. You still have to come through us. We have figured out how to replace,

at least statistically, what we had last year, which we covered on the pod I did with Rousseau on Thursday, where Kawhi's stats last year have now been basically replaced by Siakam, 95%. Plus Siakam's playing more games. And then off the bench, what they have in Ananobi and Norman Powell and guys like that, where they've been able to piece together Siakam stats, but then Van Vliet's just better. And they're all more familiar with each other.

Nick Nurse is better. And I think they have somehow figured out how to replicate last season, which makes no sense because Kawhi was the reason they won the title. Anyway, I really respect what they did. I just want to say that now it's time for your butt. Well, and I want to say I watched last night intently and intensely because I played the Minnesota Timberwolves getting eight and a half points. Oh, no.

I liked two. There were two underdogs last night getting near double digits. Minnesota was one and Sacramento Kings were the other and neither one of them came through. But I really part of

why Toronto covered handily is because Siakam took and made a 25 foot three pointer with 21 seconds left. So they, they, they went from, from being a eight point winners to 11 point winners.

But I, again, that that's what the point I want to get at. Listen to this. Listen, Siakam, 34 points, RHJ,

Ronde, Hollis, Jefferson, 21. Plain center. Anunobi, 34 points. RHJ, Rondé Hollis-Jefferson, 21 points. Plain center. Anunobi, 25 points and 12 boards. He was awesome. Kyle Lowry, 27

points. Bavli, 16 points. They are so balanced. They have so many ways to beat your butt. You just can't make a run and hold them down. They're just too flexible. Now, they were playing the Minnesota Timberwolves, arguably the worst defensive

team. The Wizards are giving them some good competition, but I just, to finish your point about the admiration we have for Toronto. By the way, I watched that game as well. I actually tried to watch. I watched that game. I watched the Indiana game. By the time people. I watched the Indiana game.

By the time people hear this, the Tuesday night games will have already happened. But they gave up, I think, 75 points in the first half. And Minnesota was flame shooting out of their ass. And this is the thing over and over again I've noticed with Toronto, where you kind of have to cut their head off to get rid of them. And they could be down eight with three minutes left

and still figure out a way to patch it together. My biggest fear with them is how hard they've gone, how hard their guards go during the season. And all the miles Lowry had over the course of his career, and especially last season, if that's sustainable for four or five more months. Because credit to them compared to some of the crap we watch where you have the Clippers night to night, you have no idea if they're going to try or not.

And then you see this Raptors team really, really giving a shit. And I'm sorry, 15 straight wins is fucking impressive. It really is. Once you get into that 15, 16, 17 range, I think you have to be taken seriously. And I guarantee they're not going to be scared of Milwaukee. I think it's time for your butt though. Give us the butt. They don't have cool high letter.

They had the, you know, the best playoff performer of the playoffs last year. And they don't have them this year. That's the difference between last year's team and this year's team. And that's why Vegas has them where they have them. We all know that the playoffs are a radically different animal than the regular season. And we both just spent 10 minutes conveying our admiration and enthusiasm for what Toronto has done. But which series are they going to have the best player on the court almost certainly in the

first round they will have the best player on the court but as soon as we get to the second round and they're facing one of boston or miami or um the pacers uh i guess maybe they would have the best player on the court against the Pacers. Yeah. But you know, and I'm oversimplifying, but we, we, we know there's a reason for the oversimplification. The team with the best player tends to win.

It's true. But I will say the, having the best coach in a series, somebody who's significantly better. We've seen that matter. The team that collectively a different guy steps up every night. I think that matters. And here's the big thing for me. I just think their guys are better than they were last year. Like some of their key guys, like Vin Vuit, think about how

bad he was the first two rounds of the playoffs last year before he got hot. And then he's just really stayed hot ever since. Lowry has carried over what he did last year. And then Siakam went up two levels. And Inobi, the stuff that he's been doing lately is on par with what Siakam was giving them last year, at least offensively. And then, you know, here's the other thing. They have some dudes in contract years,

which is always nice. You know, they have Serge Ibaka playing for one last contract. Gasol's hurt right now, but when he comes back, you know, he Serge Ibaka playing for one last contract Gasol's hurt right now but when he comes back you know he's he's they have

the right guys are motivated on their team and you if you go and you check out the standings and I think this

weirdly matters more for the East and it really matters for the Celtics the Celtics right now we're taping this Tuesday afternoon, they're 37 and 15. They're a game in the lost column behind the Raptors who played more games. Milwaukee's running away with the top seed. I think getting that two seed is

just unbelievably important because for one thing, you don't have to see Milwaukee until round three. And who knows who the hell knows what's going to happen. You also, if you're the two seed, now you get Brooklyn or Orlando in round one versus getting Indiana who FY fucking I, I don't want to see any part of in round one. I think that team is talented and they have not figured out. I watched them pretty closely last night. They had a tough loss to Brooklyn. They haven't really figured out how to acclimate Oladipo into all the good stuff they have going

because while he's been gone, Sabonis has turned into this transformative setter. He had triple-double last night and they're running plays for him in crunch time and he's creating shots for other guys. He's doing all his stuff. Brogdon is really good at running their team. They have a bunch of McDermott, Jeremy Lamb, kind of heat-checky guys.

And they don't totally need what Oladipo did for them last year. And it's almost like he's got to reinvent himself a little bit, at least for this season, figure out in the off season. But they have a lot of talent. And then Turner coming off the bench, too. I don't want to see that team in round one. They're going through an identity crisis right now. They're in the midst of a six-game, seven-game, six or seven?

Six-game losing streak right now. Two of those are tough, close losses. They lost by one to the Raptors, where the Raptors, speaking of coming back from eight points with, what was it, 50 seconds left? Right, right, right. It was incredible. And then the loss last night

to the Nets by one. But I think they're just, you know, it's okay in the regular season to go ahead and, you know, take on the chemistry experiment when you're a pretty good team because it means working back in the guy

that that should be your the best guy on the team that's oladipo um might not be anymore i i he i might not be part of their problem is um he'll get there but right now he's a hundred percent not one of their best two guys and he's still trying to get his foot out but that's why they went on a losing streak. And it's actually pretty predictable that it happened because those guys were all playing well together. Everyone's getting their minutes. And now you have Oladipo in.

And then you saw it last night. There's a minute left. It's like, well, what do we do here? Sabonis is actually... Sabonis against DeAndre Jordan is our best matchup. But we got Oladipo. Do we give him the ball? What about Brogdon?

Should we send him a pick? And that stuff can submarine you. My point is I would much rather see Brooklyn in a playoff series. Undoubtedly true. We agree with that. Because they stink. But anyway, that two seed, you get to play the stinky seven seed.

You then get in round two you get game seven probably against Toronto unless I'm missing something and one of those teams tails off and Miami makes a huge run I don't think that's going to happen especially now that Butler's bagged up but

we're going to probably have Miami Philly in round one in some way unless Philly goes on a tear, which I also don't think is going to happen. We don't, all of a sudden, we're under 30 games left in the season. So I think we have a general sense

of where people are going to fall unless there's a major injury. Miami-Philly would be incredible for a few reasons, including Embiid, he did that weird, what was it, Instagram or tweet? It was Instagram about you have to be the hero long enough to become the villain or whatever the fuck he was talking

about. He should just not do any social. But then Butler comes in as mentions, you know, like, hey, over here. And then that starts the whole Miami thing. Oh, yeah. But this Philly thing,

and then the other thing with Philly, and this is, I'm not saying this is substantiated, but, you know, once Leon Rose and World Wide West

went to the Knicks, those are Embiid's agents. And fair, unfair, true, untrue, Embiid to the Knicks is going to become a story over the next couple weeks. It just is. Like, untrue, Embiid to the Knicks is going to become a story over the next couple of weeks. It just is.

If they flame out in the playoffs, if they lose in round one, is it just going to be enough to fire Brett Brown? Should they also think of trying to get a godfather package for Embiid? And who's going to pay a godfather package for a guy who can't seem to stay on the court? That's right. I mean,

I love this. Odd Shark posted odds earlier today. Odds for what team Joel Embiid will be on for game one of the 2020-2021 NBA season. What were the odds? Let's hear them.

Yeah, well, the 76ers are minus 750, so him staying put is the overwhelming favorite. But the next team is the Miami Heat at 11-1. Right behind the Heat, the Washington Wizards at 14-1. What? No way. I don't know. And then the Golden State Warriors, 15-1.

The Trailblazers, 16-1. And the Thunder, 18-1. Very interesting. No Knicks, by the way. Well, the Knicks should be on that list. His fucking agents are going to be running the Knicks. They have to at least be mentioned. You know, I got to say, that's the most wizardiness outcome of all time. Like them trading for Joel Embiid and him playing, you know,

78 of a possible 340 games out of the next four years of his career would be the most Wizards thing in a while. I could totally see it. Bradley Beal and a lottery pick and like two more unprotected picks. One of my favorite things lately, you know, obviously,

Tony and Wilbon are our boys. Pardon the interruption last night. Tony did this thing. They were talking about Embiid. He goes, hold on a second, Mike, let me do this. Here's the list of all of Joel Embiid's accomplishments. Okay. Now what do you know?

Yeah, I saw that. He snaked him. He sure did. Cause guess what? It's a, yeah, yeah. I saw that. He snaked them. He sure did. Because guess what? There's nothing on the list. There's zero accomplishments. Yeah. I mean, we will cover Philly in another podcast,

but it's, you know, they're 33-21. We thought they were going to win 60 games. They're 24-2 at home. They're 9-19 on the road. 9-19 is a cry for help. It's a confession is what it is. It's a written confession. We are committing basketball crime every night that we go out on the road.

I've already said goodbye to the $500 that I bet on them over 53 and a half. Yeah. But it's, see, but I have this friend who just sold a company for some amount. I can't, I don't know what the amount is. So I feel pretty, I feel like I might be able to borrow some of that money. I don't know, man. It's just incredible.

I have this buddy. It's unbelievable. The news today is unbelievable. Oh, stop it. Um, the, well, we, we left that Raptor series last year. buddy. It's unbelievable. The news today is unbelievable. Stop it. Well, we left that Raptors series last year and I remember Russell and I did the podcast last night and we

were just talking in past tense about Brett Brown. It was like, oh, wow. You just lost to Kawhi playing on one leg. Obviously, he's getting fired. And then there was this weird groundswell. Don't blame Brad. He's a great guy. He deserves another chance.

If that shot doesn't go in, they win an OT. And all of a sudden he was coaching them again. And, you know, I don't know how much to blame him versus how much to blame just what a weird team they have. And a team that, by the way, we knew was going to be weird, but we still kind of liked what they did because at least they kept these assets. They might have, the Horford thing really might've been a catastrophe for them because there were signs last year that he was physically starting to break down a little bit.

And it has continued this year. And it looks to me like he's playing hurt, doesn't obviously fit in with what they have. And they just passed a trade deadline where, you know, they didn't move on him or Harris. It was incredibly expensive. And if they have to do anything with that, it'll be in the off season. Now they're stuck with these guys. And it does, when I watched them, they just, it doesn't offensively does not pass the eye test. So I don't know, would you blame Brett Brown for that or the roster, or would you say it's a clean 50-50 split? It's more than that. It's the institution. It's the Sixers. I mean, Brett Brown is an instrument of this, and I do think a different coach with a different kind of perspective on the locker room would have been a good possible

change in direction for the Sixers. The problem that Brett Brown has is Simmons and Embiid don't respect him and don't give a shit because Ben Simmons won't shoot and Joel Embiid won't get in shape. And they both had opportunities in the summer to work on those two things, and they arrived at the beginning of this season and all through the season doing the same bullshit as last year. And at some point, he's the guy that's in charge of, of the locker room. He's an instrument of,

of the franchise. They, they have to get through to those two guys, Al Horford, who is a respected veteran. Who's played on good winning teams through much of his career saying there is a problem in this locker room. There's something going on chemistry wise. It's in some respect, the fact that Brett Brown was asked to come preside over that again and, and be responsible for guys that clearly don't respect him is a problem. Al Horford, giving them a solid 12 and seven this year. Maybe,

maybe Al Horford's a problem. He went right off a cliff. Maybe Al Horford's a problem. He went right off a cliff. Maybe so. Maybe Al Horford's a problem. His last two clubhouses have been kind of crazy. Maybe we should be pointing the fingers at him. Maybe he's not a nice guy. Interesting. Oh, I like this. Maybe he's the cancer. No, he's a great guy. Hottest take.

Hottest take. I'd feel bad for him if he didn't shank the Celtics and go to their biggest rival. So I don't feel bad at all. Actually, in case you're wondering. It worked out fine. The Sixers, rather than paying Jimmy Butler, paid him and he's dead. So it worked out perfectly. It was unbelievable for us. Quickly, just to wrap up the East, Milwaukee is now 46 and seven. There's 29 games left. They would have to go 27 and2 to tie the Warriors 73-9 and a bunch of people would say

no way that's not happening they'll start resting guys etc. etc. the funny thing about their team is that they can win when Giannis doesn't play and they can succeed

when Giannis isn't on the court and when you think about the stretch run where you end up playing more of your own conference and stuff like that and how many bad teams are in the East, it's not unrealistic. I want to point out

that another double figure win yesterday, they're now plus 12.5 point differential, which puts them- That's Golden State level. It's not even historical. That's Golden State level. It's not even historical. It's never happened before. You can't even say it's historically great. It would be the highest number anyone's had. And there's some other stuff going on. I think the shocker, they're scoring almost 120 points at game, House. 119.8. They're giving up. They're fourth in points given up at 107.3.

But then the thing that really jumps out is the opposing field goal percentage, which is 40.9%, House. That's like Riley Nix era shit. They're so long it's crazy watching them they get from side to side

on the basketball court they defend sideline to sideline so well and then you look at the other interesting stat with them I mean

we're not going like super crazy advanced here but they they lead the league in threes that the other team has attempted so the other team has attempted.

So the other team has attempted 39.1 threes a game, which leads the league. Which, you know what that tells me? We have the lead a lot and the other team doesn't have a lot of options and they have to settle for bad threes because nothing else is going on with them. So I think the 70 wins is absolutely 1,000,000% in play for them.

So just 70 would be 24. Boy, I used to be good at adding. 20, 20, 20, yeah, 24 and 5. Does that sound realistic? Yes, correct. Yes, there are 29 games left. That's correct. 24 and 5. Well done. You did it. Thank you. I did it. I can help you do math.

The Bulls, 26 and 3 to tie the 96 Bulls. I don't know. They're kind of happening in a vacuum. Everyone's like, cool. Everybody has learned to just not care about the regular season as much anymore. But in my opinion,

huge point differential matters. Uh, win streaks matter because that tells me what kind of resilience you have day to day, week to week. And then the only other thing I'd say about the East is just, I don't want to jinx it. I don't want to go too overboard on it.

And I don't want to talk about my favorite team, but, um, they, they're back. Like they, we, we were together when Hayward broke his hand and I don't want to talk about my favorite team, but they're back. We were together when Hayward broke his hand, and I was devastated because we were playing so well. Took a while.

They've got all the people back, and Tatum has gone up a level. Just go look at his stats. I could rattle off 40 stats to you, but NBA.com had a really good piece about him yesterday about he's just driving to the basket more and finishing better. He went from, you know,

first two months of the season, he was driving the basket and the finishing, all those numbers were terrible. And now he's finishing at a rate with all the stars in the league. And that's the ceiling for this team is what happens to him from February to June.

And if he can stay at the level he's been at. You're describing the stunted development that we all anticipated would occur when Kyrie arrived and was playing again. But some combination of Kyrie and Tatum. I mean, aren't the stories that Tatum worked with Kobe on his mid-range shot two seasons ago? But, you know, I think that got some blame, and I've certainly made some jokes.

And Kyrie took the lion's share of the blame. But, you know, the other key was not having Marcus Morris on the team anymore, too. They just had too many ball stoppers. And when you watch them, it was just four guys standing around. It was your turn, your turn, your turn, my turn. And now, you know, I thought the Oklahoma City win they had on Sunday was illuminating because Oklahoma City is a weird team. They'll play three guards at crunch time. Teams usually try to counter by playing three guards.

So they match up from a quickness standpoint. And the Celts kind of stared at it. And we're like, no, our bread and butter are the three wings, Kemba, and a big man, which was Tice in this game. And it's like, if you want to play three guards, great. Because now you're going to have to put Chris Paul and Jason Tatum, you know? And now you're going to have to have Dennis Schroeder on Gordon Hayward.

And we're going to be able to use our size to shoot over those guys. So we're taping this before the Rockets game tonight, but I think that's another good example. The Rockets, who I want to talk about in one second, they went super small and it's been a mismatch issue for teams like the Lakers and Utah. Utah figured out, Lakers didn't.

For the Celtics, they're just going to do what they do because the flexibility they have with those wings defensively is the biggest asset they have. They can switch on everything. And the fact that Tatum is starting to move into that Kemba level of reliable creator, I'm getting excited, House. 25 to 1. 25 to 1 for the title. Why not us, House? Why not us? Can we cheat? Can we cheat to win this one? We cheated for the Red Sox and Pats titles, baby. Let's get some cheating into this.

Got to call up the boys from, from the Houston Astros. I think they're available. Can we, or just get Bella, Bella check and come over and help. Can we put cameras in the jumbo tron and, and have them shoot down and we can read on the other team's play calls.

Uh, I want to talk about... That's funny. How would you cheat at basketball? Go ahead. I'm sorry. How would you cheat at basketball? I guess you would put cameras and mics in the locker room. I guess. But everybody knows what everybody's going to run as soon as they play the first 10 games of the season.

The innovations through the curse. That would be a good one for Kerr. I don't want to take us, divert us. You were, you were ready to roll, but I do think it would be interesting because there's cameras on everything in basketball camera cameras is not going to help anybody.

No, who would know how to cheat H Bob H Bob would know how to cheat. Oh, H Bob's working for Dallas. Yeah. He's probably not going to tell us how to cheat. I hope he's doesn't becomeJ. Hinch of the NBA. I remember

if you go back and when they show the old games in the 1981 season when the Sixers and Celtics had their incredible seven game battle

which is still like the greatest playoff series of my life and then the Celtics played the Rockets in the finals. That same year CBS experimented with having cameras in the coaches' huddles.

They wanted to give people more access. And if you watch those tapes, it's a timeout and they're going into the huddle and it's like Billy Cunningham going, all right, Daryl, you're going to set a pick for Doc. Doc, you get the ball. Hollins is going to come around the screen and blah, blah, blah. And they started doing this. And Bill Fitch would send a Celtic running into the locker room pretending he was going to pee.

And then that person would run out and tell them what the Sixers play was. And that was a real thing that happened. Yeah. We won the title that year. Put an asterisk on that one. Yeah. You really did cheat. Yeah.

It was cheating that was given to us, though. I want to talk about the Rockets in one second. Quick break to talk about the Book of Basketball podcast where you, me, and Rosillo did Dwight Howard. We did him this week. We did. Pyramid podcast. We tried.

We broke down, was he the best center of his generation? Did that even matter? Because his generation had no centers. Why was farting so important to the Dwight Howard narrative? Was he a jackass? How much of this was his fault? This was, I would say the harshest book of basketball podcasts we did,

but then we have that one. And then next week, you, me, and the only Orlando magic fan, either of us have ever met Kevin Clark. We're breaking down game four of the 2009 finals, the most traumatic moment in magic history.

And that's a great what if series. And it's obviously a little added weight because of the people talking about Kobe and his legacy and some of his great games, stuff like that. That was the fork in the road game for the Lakers to win the title that year. So that's all coming up.

Subscribe to the book of basketball on Spotify, on Apple or wherever you get your, your podcast. All right, let's talk about the Rockets. Well, I want to, I want to note on that Dwight Howard podcast,

the book of basketball podcast. We obviously taped that before Kobe's devastating. We take both of them and i called yeah i called him a selfish prick uh i probably would not have used that you know way oh is that in the podcast impact on yeah i think it's at the end yeah uh well you were when you said it though you're joking though yeah i know i know and and i might have said it like i would have been a lot more sort of proper, appropriate than that. Yeah, that's fair. That's a good note.

We would have taped it after. I'm glad you added that. Just want to make that observation. That's all. Yeah, because we taped that one at least a month ago and then we taped the other one, the game for 2009. We taped like in August. Yes. So anyway, the Rockets. So we'll leave. We'll talk Rockets and then we'll do some golf and then we're out. So the Rockets, they trade Capella, get Covington back.

They have now traded three first round picks for, and Chris Paul, and Capella for just Westbrook and Covington. They decided to triple down and go all in on small ball and threes and people slashed into the basket with a ton of space. And it reminded me of the more I watched it, and I got to admit, I'm semi horrified by it. I don't think it has any chance of actually working to win a title, But it reminded me of something Steve Nash said, and then D and Tony agreed with, where Steve Nash was basically like, I made him watch that 07 Suns game against the Spurs. And his biggest takeaway was, and we did a book of basketball podcasts about it, which everybody should listen to if they haven't heard it, because Nash was

awesome. His big takeaway was, I wish we shot more threes. I don't know why we did the half-assed version of this revolutionary thing we were trying to do. We should have just gone all in. We should have actually taken 40 plus threes. We should have gone all out 100%. And I wonder if that's what the Rockets are doing here. They're like, eh, we're three-fourths of the way toward whatever we're going to be. Capella is nice to have a center, but I forget the stats, but they were like 15th in rebounding

and 22nd in rim protection. It's not like he was this savior for the holes they had anyway. And they were just like, fuck it. We're doubling down. We're going to make other teams play the way we're playing. We'll shoot a ton of threes.

I admire the gusto. I think there is a 0% chance it can work in the playoffs for four straight rounds. I think it puts way too much strain on small guys to just have to rise above what they would normally be doing physically and mentally and i don't think it's sustainable what what were your thoughts watching

it the same i mean i you know it it is uh a rare um instance i think where it's like the, the, it's old guy analysis, like the, the TNT crew immediately thereafter on that Thursday, they were laughing. Shaq was laughing. Uh, Chuck was laughing. Kenny picked the rockets to win the title and, and Chuck came out and just said, look, there's no way. There's no precedent for a team that's constructed this way to go win a title. And he did a pretty good job making the argument. And he looked at Kenny and said, are you still taking the Rockets? And Kenny said, no, I'm not. So, I mean, that's the point. There is no precedent for this.

And, you know, they might win. I think it depends on who they play. There's nobody that can't beat them in the West. Maybe other than Memphis, I guess. I mean, and Memphis might not even land there. And there's no chance that Houston's going to play Memphis in the first round. Everybody else in the West feels like

they can beat this Houston. Now, by the arrangement, but the same token, Shaq said it, if they shoot 55% from three, they can run teams out of the gym and just win that way. But in a series, in a playoff series, in a seven-game series,

there's just no precedent for a single style of play like that with the size limitation and 30 games from now when they will be, to your point, feeling the brunt of every single night being mismatched on the boards, you know, it just doesn't feel like a great recipe. I think they could win any one game, right? So the math is like, all right, we take 42 threes.

We make somewhere between 18 and 20. We get to the free throw line. There's a roadmap for the other team would have to make a fairly comparable amount of threes. If they're just giving up twos, they don't care because they're turning this into a math test basically. It's like, great, you shot 65% from twos, but I took more threes and I made 40%. I'm going to win that every time. So yeah, I wouldn't gamble on or against the Rockets game to game

because what they're doing, they could literally beat anybody in one night. Where it gets dicey, especially round three. The first two rounds, maybe you could pull it off because you have some rest, especially round one's really long.

Remember, you play two games and you don't play again for four days, shit like that. Round three is every other night and there's no outs and it's grueling. Every game feels like a double game. You're flying back and forth and it's not sustainable. And there's some other parts that I just think are crazy too. Like the amount that they're relying on PJ Tucker for this. And what happens if something happens to him? What happens if he pulls a hamstring or he has a broken toe or all this stuff? He's really the only person they can do this with in crunch time, in my opinion. Right.

They don't have depth to be able to pull this off. Well, the fun thing, I was so mad Thursday. I was just like, I hate this. And I even tweeted about it. I was like, I'm not watching this.

I don't like this. This isn't basketball that makes sense in any way other than it's a gimmick. And whether they beat the Lakers or not, I really don't care. I just don't enjoy watching this. I did watch some on Sunday. I got sucked back in.

It has had an amazing effect on Westbrook. Westbrook, he was 18 for 33 on Sunday against Utah in the game they almost won. And going right at Gobert. And it's weird. This weird style that they've created that I don't think can work is actually figured out a way to get Harden and Westbrook going. And teams are now there.

If they double team Harden now Westbrook's just flying to the hole and I get all of it. I just think on D, you know, there's a reason the Warriors during their whole title run, Kirk could have played the lineup of death the whole game, right? That was the best advanced metric number, but

he intentionally didn't do that. There was a reason he tried to slug through for six, seven minutes with Zaza, Pachulia, and JaVale McGee and all those guys because he knew that those guys couldn't play at that level, the smaller lineup, for more than maybe 15, 20 minutes,

something like that. And think about it. They had Durant, who is seven feet, you know, and at least can protect the rim a little. They had Draymond, who could protect the rim. This Rockets, they have no rim protection whatsoever. And two subpar guys on defense in Harden and Westbrook. So I think it's going to end badly. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I'll be the first one to admit it. But I don't see this working. There's just no precedent for it. Now, the nerds would say the precedent, who cares? Basketball is totally different now. This is where we're going. We're going with Andre Drummond wiping off the tears after getting traded to Cleveland

and then taking like five threes in his first Cleveland game. And that's where Hoops is going. But I don't know. I still feel like I think it's possible to just get a little too weird. So, we'll see. It's going to be fascinating. You wouldn't let me bet on Utah

30-1 two days ago I just don't trust them and right now they're presently positioned now we have 30 games to go but right now they're in the fourth hole and Houston's in the five

and if they play Houston again for the third straight year in the playoffs, now it would be in the first round, but they haven't figured out how to beat Houston and have Rudy Gobert on the court. I mean, there's a lot of stuff to happen still. I concede it, but I just, Utah is, is, you know, they won five, then they lost five and then they won three. They're just not consistent enough night to night. I mean, I know that guys are hurt and whatever. I just haven't seen anything that makes me think that they've turned a corner

and are able to go just kick ass every night. Well, the Lakers, it might be middle regular season malaise or teams might be able to might be figuring out how to the Laker fans in my life are concerned about the Lakers right now that they didn't really improve at trade at the trade deadline that it's the Kuzma was this asset that really doesn't help them in the fourth quarter of playoff games because he probably isn't going to be out there. And then, you know,

they're starting to cut down their rotation a little, a little less Caruso, relying on Avery Bradley more, stuff like that. They're a little on-off switchy, which is even this, they're 40 and 12. The Clippers just cannot seem to look good for a week.

You know, what Toronto's doing, they're the opposite. They'll look good one day. They'll give up 142 points to Minnesota. Like, when you're doing shit like that, and they had Kawhi and Paul George that game. When you're doing shit like that, something's not totally right.

So I don't trust them. I thought Denver needed to make a move that they never made during the trade deadline. And the more I look at it, I just think something weird could happen in the West. Even the point differentials, there's only one team that has a point differential of seven right now, and it's the Lakers. And Utah's point differential is like 3.9. It just seems like when we get to round one, I think all hell could break loose.

And I don't know if the Clippers love their team either because they gave up a lot in that Marcus Morris trade for what that was basically the last asset they had. Utah went 14 and two before it went on its five game losing streak. And that 14 and two, the two best wins, I guess, were they beat the Clippers and they beat the Mavericks, but they did what you're supposed to do if you intend to be a good team, which is the two best wins I guess were they beat the Clippers and they beat the Mavericks but they did what you're supposed to do if you intend to be a good team which is beat all the bad teams on your schedule

and they beat every bad team they beat the Nets, the Wizards, the Hornets the Knicks, the Magic you know the Bulls you know but the upside for them is if they get Conley going because he's looked okay the last 10 days or so since he,

I think during the five-game winning streak, he finally started to look like Mike Conley. Russell and I were talking last week. There was a game last week when, now I'm blanking on what team it was, when they were just attacking him. Whoever he was guarding, they were putting him in the torture chamber.

But, you know, I think they at least go seven deep and they know who they are. Before we go, big golf tournament this weekend, big field in place. I know Fairway Rowland covered it on the Fairway Rowland pod this week on Fairway Rowland. I think you've forgiven all the people who played in Saudi Arabia,

or maybe you're just tucking it away and being bitter about it. But we have a huge field in place this weekend. This is usually the tournament when the season, Pebble Beach last week is fun, but then this week, now we're starting to creep closer and closer to the Masters. What are we watching out for in the LA Open? Yeah, so this is the best field since the British Open,

the last major of last year. There are 120 players. It's now an invitational. It's the Genesis Invitational, and Tiger is the host. So it's basically like Tiger inviting people, and you don't say no to Tiger. Nine of the top 10 players in the world are playing in this event. This will be our first time of seeing Rory and Brooks Koepka

on the golf course at the same time. Justin Thomas, DJ, Tiger himself. It's everybody you want to see. And you've been a person that's admired the wayth, 13th of an unbelievable event at an iconic venue because Riviera is hosting multiple majors. March, the Players' Championship. April, Augusta, the Masters. May, the PGA Championship. June, the U.S. Open. July, the British Open. It's mother-effing incredible. What a great stretch.

Ryder Cup. This is an Olympics year and a Ryder Cup year. So we're lucky. It's a cornucopia of riches this year, Bill Simmons. But this is Tiger. He's played at Riviera 13 times and never won. This is for him. This is the only venue he's played that many times and never won.

The sentimental aspect of me, I'd love to see him win in los angeles to to you know the link between him and kobe bryant has been established a lot of journalists made that comparison how both of them became pros at the same time and really grew up in the internet era and how the two of them had a unique understanding between the two of them they were fans of each other and how relatable their lives have been. They're both global sports icons. And I think it would be neat if Tiger could pull it out in Los Angeles and do kind of a tribute to Kobe. Well, I hope that your betting acumen carries over to this year, especially on the pod.

You had a pretty good year last year with targeting different people. Please scout all the LA people so we're ready for the players on the pod. You had a pretty good year last year with targeting different people. Please scout all the LA people so we're ready for the players and the masters. We have some picks given out for this LA Open. Give us one. Brooks Koepka is available

at 23-1 right now. That's the best value you're going to get on Brooks. He's 2-1 to finish in the top 10. He just relinquished his number one official world golf ranking status. He was number one in the world for 47 or 48 weeks. Rory McIlroy just replaced him the last time that Brooks Koepka entered a tournament not number one, was the PGA Championship in in 2019 and he won that tournament

and the last time brooks kepka finished outside the top 15 in four events preceding uh an event was the 2017 u.s open which he won so i just love the idea of getting brooks at at odds in the in the 20s it's just an incredible value it's fine you know he might still be rusty and he might not give a shit about this week because it's hard to say

what tournaments he cares about but you know 23-1 for Brooks Koepka sign daddy up amazing House we'll listen to you on Fairway Row

and talk to you soon on this podcast enjoy House on the Book of Basketball podcast as well talk to you soon buddy thanks buddy alright before we get to Davehl, chances are you've heard of Salesforce, but if you're like a lot of people, you don't know exactly what Salesforce does. Well,

the simple answer is this. Salesforce brings companies and customers together. How does it work with Salesforce? Different employees across your different departments, like Stephen Sales, Marion Marketing, et cetera. They all get a single shared 360 degree view of each of your customers. That means two things. First, whenever your customers talk with Stephen Sales, Married Marketing, or whoever, they'll feel like they're having a relationship with one united company, not a series of disconnected departments, which is important. Second, more important, it means that all those people, Stephen Sales, Married Marketing,

et cetera, have everything they need to make your customers happy and not just a little happy. Happy like, wow, I love this company. They really get me. That kind of happy. When your customers are that happy, everyone's happy. That's how Salesforce brings companies

and customers together. If that makes sense, I hope it does. You can learn more by visiting salesforce.com slash learn more. All right, Dave Grohl, we talked at Sundance and here it is. Dave Grohl is here. We are taping this in the Sundance studios. We have talked about doing a pod for like, I don't know, years.

It's been a long time. The whole 2010s. Yeah. It's just never happened. You even did a podcast with my buddy House last year. You did House of Carbs with him a year ago. And he even had you before I did. But now we're finally here, 2020.

Yeah. We did it. Yeah, I reached out to you, I think it was what, 2014. You did the follow-up documentary series to your original documentary. I think it was called Sonic Highways. It was called Sonic Highways, yeah. And I was like blown away by how good it was called sonic highways yeah and i was

like blown away by how good it was and i was like i just have to email this guy because i see so many bad documentaries and this was just a really cool idea for a show and then that was it you only did one season and you were done you know i wanted to do another i just fell into that documentary thing like i had never uh aspired to be like a director. Yeah. Make movies. I love making music videos. That's really fun.

Right. But those are like silent films. It's like slapstick, just physical comedy and shit. So the first documentary I did was this movie called Sound City. That was a year before. And that was a year before and um not to say making documentaries is easy but if you have the right uh if you have the right people and you have the the the right intention then to be able to go and uh meet your heroes and talk to them about something that you have in common um and then put it all together in you know in like a in a three part three act story um it could be really inspiring and all of this stuff the sound city thing and the sonic

highways thing that was mostly meant to um humanize music and the process of making it and so that it will inspire others to do. Well, and the roots of it too. And I'm sure everybody has their own favorite episodes. I personally thought, I thought the Seattle and I thought the DC. Oh, the DC one, dude. Where are you from?

I'm from Boston, but House, whose podcast you did last year. Yeah. He's my best friend from college and just an all time DC, mid, late eighties, just the scene. So I, we'd already known about those bands. just an all-time DC mid-late 80s just this scene.

So we had already known about those bands when we were in college and he was listening to Fugazi and even the first Nirvana album and stuff like that. And we were like, what the fuck are you listening to?

But he was years ahead of a lot of us. Well, you know, the greatest thing about those smaller sort of independent or punk rock music scenes was that it really was like a community. Yeah. And so in the Sonic Highways thing, as we went from city to city, you know, the conversation was mostly about how the environment influences the music.

So why did Chicago end up a blues capital? Yeah. Where did jazz come from in New Orleans? How did the Grand Ole Opry become like the Mother Church, the place where... So, but in all of those places, you realize that there really was a community of musicians. And I honestly believe that when you put people together,

like you actually put people together in a space to be creative, really great things happen. And you kind of can't do it by yourself. You need to do it with other people because it's inspiring, you know, to be able to bounce ideas off of each other. And those punk rock communities like the D.C. scene, God, it was so good. And you were multiple bands, but one of yours was Scream. It was like four years. Yeah. But it was great because you're on stage playing a show to all of your friends.

Yeah. And then you walk off stage and the next band up are your friends. And now you're in the audience singing your friend's song. And there really, like nobody, I don't think there was any was any i mean there certainly wasn't any career opportunity but i don't think anyone really thought too far outside of just like fucking jamming like like i in dc when i was 16 or 17 um i never learned to read music i can't read music i didn't think i could become a professional musician all i wanted to do was be the baddest drummer in town right like that was it that's what i was rehearsing for i wasn't thinking like i'm gonna make it to wembley stadium it was like i just want my friends to go like dude that was amazing that's all i wanted you learned everything by ear

right yeah because my son so my son's 12 and in the last nine months just decided i want to learn how to play the bass this is my thing right and really got into it plays most of it by ear but it's been so fun to just watch him fall in love with music yeah and listen to all these old albums and the crazy thing is it's the same album was forever it's you know it's metallica it's acdc it's led zeppelin it's just the stuff from the 60s and 70s it just it's never going to die and it's always going to be for the 12 year old 13 year old you were like what were you like rush and a couple other ones where you're just like these are my bands i was a beatles guy at first it was that's how i learned how to play guitar which was just a songbook and beatles records and then my stoner cousin gave me 2112 by rush and that just fucking changed everything

i was like so so you're just gravitated to the drummer well it's the first time i really heard the drums you know in rush the drums drums are a prominent element in every song. And because the way Neil Peart would write his parts, the composition of his drum parts was as integral as a lyric. So a really musical drummer. And so that's why everybody air drums along to rush songs which i happen to think is that that's that's the key that's if you if you make a song and people air drum to it that don't play the drums people that don't know what they're doing right which usually leads to some of the most awkward way people moments of all time of

course in the air tonight phil collins yeah yeah the thing right if you get one of those in your life or in your career then you're gold dude that's amazing but you know it's funny that if your son's 12 years old um my mother wrote this book a few years ago about mothers of musicians yeah it's called from the cradle to the stage and she interviewed like 20 different moms, mothers of artists from different parts of the country, different genres of music, different religions, different race. They all raised these kids that became legendary musicians. Dr. Dre, Michael Stipe, Zac yeah zach brown pharrell people like that you'd think that there wouldn't be like any sort of common parallel because everybody's so different

but all of the stories are almost exactly the same that in this window of 10 to 13 years old 11 to 13 yeah all of these kids decided they wanted to become musicians and i think it's because that's it's that it's those years where you start to discover identity yeah and you start you start connecting with music you hear a song or there's an instrument or something and you kind of gravitate towards it and decide like oh this is me right like i'm a rush guy now right so i love rush or i start playing the drums and i'm like oh i'm a drummer but it has so much to do with identity and in if if you're if your kid gets the bug or the spark and they're like and they go headfirst into the music thing and you have a parent that supports or facilitates it and lets them know like yeah that's okay that's

you so you do your thing yeah um they honestly will go on and do great things it's funny that he gravitated to the bass the same way you gravitated to the drums like this is the best just so you know and i don't I don't hear music like that. And I do think there's two types of people when they listen to music. And some people can just hear the different things and other people just listen to it. What do you think of when you listen to music?

Are you listening to a lyric or are you just kind of? I like things that groove. But I also, you know, I think we're the same age. We had an awesome. 1969, right? We had an awesome- 1969, right? We had an awesome kind of arc where when- I forget when I started buying cassettes and stuff like that, but we really only had 12, 15 years of music to buy from.

It was really like late 60s on. And then you start adding, but then like the whole college rock scene starts taking off and then all these genres popping out and it all leads to the 89 to 95 stage, which you were probably involved in. But I feel really lucky. Now I look at the kids now, there's so much music.

I don't even, everything is so splintered. They have 65 years of music to listen to. Well, and they that's the thing is that a good thing or bad it's almost like overwhelming well it could be i suppose because you it's so hard to have the same common things with your friends because they might be going this way you're going this way but in a way that sort of diversity is exciting because you know so my oldest daughter violet she's 13 she will listen to um johnny mathis really and then she'll listen to slipknot and then she'll listen to stevie wonder and then she'll listen to eloise who's like a artist from england that not a lot of people know about but is so outrageously talented and

then she'll listen to like she's just so all over she's trying to get me into the misfits yeah like i never got into the misfits so now my 13 year old kid is like dad listen to this misfits song i'm like it makes no sense but but it's cool because all of those things i think it's the volume or the the amount of music that they have access to is a lot more than when we were a kid but i think the effect is probably the same so for most musicians most musicians just uh learn from the the artists that they love and take whatever it is that those artists have turn it into their own and then it becomes something new or something else and so to hear like if my daughter made a record that was kind of like slipknot but also kind of like johnny mathis i would buy that well it's funny

with that age they gravitate to riffs yes and i noticed my son he just has he's like a jukebox with riffs there's a couple of your songs on it too but this chili peppers have a bunch of them where it's just the beginning of a song and he's just trying to just get it get it get get every piece of it right then start again start again and just kind of keep going and my brain never worked though i was always a writer i never ever saw the music side of it but But when you were getting into drums, though, it was Bonham, the guy from Rush. Was that like the bird and magic of that era? The 2112 record was really the first time

I listened to drums on a record. I was like, oh, listen to like... I'm like, oh, my God. The Beatles didn't have that going on. They had a whole different kind of drummer. Ringo's just like laying it down and has a really signature sound and feel. Like you could tell when Ringo's playing drums.

And then I hear this record where it's like, drums all over the place. I'm like, oh my God, this is incredible. Is that the kind of kid you were? Were you like the energy? No, the energy to just. I was such a spaz. Yeah.

Like I've calmed down. i'm practically comatose compared to what i was when i was fucking 10 years old i was a nightmarish hyperactive spaz yeah so but having like not learned how to read music i can kind of see it so if i hear a song um i sort of see the arrangement in my head almost like blocks or like legos or something like that they're just pieces and they're stacked in um in the composition of all the how how it's put together i don't even know how to explain it but it's just kind of there's a certain level of genius to it though i think right like you either have it or you don't have it no but i do think you know it's if i started to notice it with my kids when you could tell if they have like a patterned mind.

Yeah. You know, when they're young, in kindergarten or preschool, they do these little pattern games like apple, apple, orange, orange, apple, apple, you know. And so you can tell if a kid has a patterned mind if you have a patterned mind and you have an ear where you can like sort of discern or figure out pitch or inflection pitch is big too but all of those things um if you put that together with a patterned mind then you'll hear something it's almost like a you know someone that does impersonations or impressions. Yeah. It's pretty much the same thing. If your ear can sort of like signal that part of your brain to do that with your mouth,

then you could play a Rush song on a guitar. I went- It's just a matter of figuring it out. I hung out with the South Park guys who were preparing an episode once, and Bill Hader was there. And they could just on the fly just imitate anybody and it was some come up and then they they were just like speaking this line i'm

just kind of sitting there what's going on and they could just imitate anybody's vocal inflection do any celebrity just seamlessly but it was like that right where you just some people can hear things in a different way but then i mean it also has a lot to do with the drive yeah you know like nobody wants to fucking sit at a piano and have someone smack your hand with a ruler and say do it again do it again do it again that's just like the drummer is the most physically taxing of the four and you see you know you see these dudes like the guy in U2 he's got like the special chair now and it's almost like being in football

where you're I don't know like a middle linebacker or something you're just creaming dudes for 8-9 years and it's like you can't do it anymore it'll beat you down you can't do 35 years of it without you know I mean there's ways to do it like But you've taken.

Like wrists and postures and stuff. But you moved to guitar and you were able to, you know, pick your spots. Yeah. I've always been impressed by the physical longevity and stress of that position. Well, you know, this is like, I know that. So I'm 51. Like, you think I'm going to be screaming fucking best of you when i'm 75 years old there's no way like this would be incredible absolutely no i'll try you'll be

in a stool with the acoustic wheelchair yeah one of these things like so it so you kind of know and in a way you know rock and roll is a young man's game, right? A younger generation and the rebellious nature of someone that wants to go out and say, fuck you and take on the world. That's not where I'm at anymore. It's where I was when I was young. You're in the part of the journey where all the money is, though. Because you look at the concert tours. Are you going to talk about that?

No. It's true you look at the concert tours and it's all acts that have been around because the people that love them the most are the people relatively within 10 15 years of the age yeah and those are the ones who have money to spend on the major tickets so i'm making a documentary right now um i'm making a few but i'm making a documentary look at you you're always up to stuff i'm a spaz dude i can't help it you have to do like five things coffee so um so i'm making a movie about vans and van touring because back in the day um that's how younger independent bands the van was the tour bus for the punk rockers in the 80s everybody had a van even before like long before vans go way back it was the poor man's bus absolutely and so

um so i've interviewed i've interviewed everybody and you'd be surprised like the beatles toured in a van yeah Yeah. Guns N' Roses, Metallica, U2. It's probably their favorite memories, right? Just all being trapped together in a small space. Well, I mean, I think that they're pretty happy with the way things turned out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yes, I mean. And they're most nostalgic.

Yes. And there's something about that time. You know, it's like you wear it like a badge. You're like, oh, shit, yeah. I toured in a van for five years sleeping on floors eating you know butter sandwiches and getting paid two dollars a night and in a way i can't remember what we're talking about before that but in a way that the movie's more it's the movie's not so much about like really awesome van tour anecdotes which it is there are many but it's more about the

drive to do it like why do why would anyone give up everything uh quit their job leave the leave home leave everything behind just to chase this dream with no guarantee that you're ever gonna make it and you starve and you bleed and you're sick and you're pissed and you get taken to jail and you get in fights and you blah blah and but you always get to the next gig like you always get to the next gig and so you'd be surprised everybody has the same story and it is absolutely a key to success yeah you have to have that fucking thing you have to have the thing if you're just kind of doing it it's just not going to work out but if you have that thing where like i can't survive unless i fucking do this that's what you have to do it's really it's

it's pretty it's pretty great to to hear your heroes go back to those years when they were a kid and talk about like there's nothing more in life that i wanted to do and then to see their dreams actually come true and it's those musicians the ones that started for that reason i have to do this i just have to fucking do it um they're the ones they're all still doing it for that same reason i have to do it the fuck else am i gonna do like i have to do this if i don't do this i just feel hollow and i just feel fucking but to hear you know someone like ringo star talk about being in the band in the van with the beatles and he talks it's just like he's a fucking 16 year old kid when he talks about it you're like and he changed the world there's so few good movies about bands that get it correctly and

it's like like almost famous is probably one of the most memorable ones and it catches them right at that point when they're about to go from being on the bus every day to all right it's time to go to planes so we can make more money and fly around did you ever see the documentary dig what's it about it's about two bands um it's about uh this band called the brian jonestown massacre i remember that it's a amazing name um oh god now i'm forgetting the other band's name they had a big hit crap this is gonna drive me crazy it's gonna come to me anyway it's about two bands that meet they're both in the underground yeah um become like best friends because they're sort of they're like brother sister bands they're just exactly they're made to be together one of them starts to get

huge to get hugely famous danny warhol so that's who it was danny warhol started to get like really big and some success and brian jonestown massacre are like they're they're insane the singer is like this really striking beautiful crazy figure that's she's like mesmerizing but he's kind of a little crazy and the band start going like this and it kind of i mean i don't give away the ending but it gets to the point where they're not really friends anymore now this band that's huge is afraid that this band is stalking them this is fucking true wow and it it winds up in it it's not a happy end jesus it's one of the greatest fucking documentaries i've ever seen i don't know how i haven't seen that one because most movies like the end is like yay we made it to the tokyo dome but this one is

just like i love amazing i love all content about bands when they hit that point where they're, they're going to stay together, break up. Oh, everybody gets there. Cause the, the, the first part of the Eagles part one,

which is basically the, the arc and then the fall. But like it's, I'm so into it. It's so good though. All the beats of it. But then there's been some other ones that people like, there was one about you too,

which I don't even think people know they hit that point where it was like, and then they end up, their manager ends up trapping them in some castle in Germany and they end up making Octone Baby. But it seems like the shelf life is, I don't know,

six to 10 years and everybody starts, either the band's going to stay together or it's going to implode. And those are the two options. And if they can somehow stay together, then they can keep going. It's not easy.

You know, like we've been a band now for 25 years, but you must stay at a point. We'll say what? You must've hit a point during that 25 years. It's seven years. It's usually a, you get the seven year itch.

Yeah. You're like, why am I doing this? Do I really want to do this anymore? And then you feel the pressure to do it. And you're like, fuck that. That's not why I started doing this in the first place. And then it goes, ah, ah, ah, ah.

And everything goes, fuck you all. And then you decide you're going to bail. And then three months later, you're like, I miss you guys. And then you just start doing it again. I mean, that's what happened with us. Do you remember what the big conflict was? Yeah. So this is in like 2000 or 2001.

So you've had multiple giant albums at this point. Not really. You know, it's funny. Our sort of path has been really gradually comfortable. I felt like you were big I saw you in Worcester and in Boston or not Boston

but like back then Foxborough we saw you in Worcester and was it at that weird like a weird theater that

yeah it was fucking awesome I remember that it actually was really good the acoustics were good in that because it just went up I just remember it just didn't seem like

a place to have a rock show, but it was very cool. Yeah. But no, it's weird. Like, you know, when we started, it was, when we started, it wasn't even a band. It was just a demo tape I made by myself. Yeah.

I played all the instruments. I did it in five days. I thought it was really fun. Nirvana was over. I didn't have anything to do. I was depressed. And I thought thought you know what fuck that i'm gonna just go to the studio and record some shit by myself recorded it i made

a hundred cassettes i made a little i made a little cover with a cassette i called it food fighters because i didn't want people to think it was me i wanted to be like oh this new band is really cool when really it was just one person and um then that starts getting out and whatever and then i'd call pat and i'd call nate and we start the band anyway then we tour our fucking asses off and then the second album i'm like okay let's make let's this is probably going to be the last record we ever make so let's really make it good so we really worked on that like everlong and my hero and monkey wrench stuff like that that that like we we produced that we worked on that like everlong and my hero and monkey wrench stuff like that that that like we we produced that we worked on that with a great producer and then after that we were

let out of our record contract this is the technicality the president of the record company we had a key man clause and he bailed so we're like cool now we're fucking not even we do whatever we want so we had this easy out that was like okay did you want to keep we're not obligated to do this should we keep doing it and i had just moved back to virginia where i grew up and i built a studio in my basement i'm like let's just fucking make a cool record and have fun every day we like barbecue at night we'd fucking shoot hoops in the daytime drink light all day long it was spring in Virginia we just made this record and once we were done then we said to the record companies like okay

who wants it and then we did a deal but it's kind of been like this but you know inevitably after at some point you question why you're doing it and And the thing that got weird with us was I had, we were making a record and it just wasn't working out, our fourth record. Just didn't sound good, didn't feel good. We weren't into it. And then in the meantime, my buddy Josh from Queens of the Stone Age had just bailed his drummer.

And he's like, dude, I got two weeks. Can you come just do the drums on the record? And they were like my favorite band. They fucking amazing and we're good friends we've known each other for 30 years a long time i was like yes i get to play on a queens of stone age record so go in and record the queens and it was kind of the opposite of what we were doing what we were doing was like okay um all right let's just put this bass down and let's set up but the queens of stone age thing was like this collective lightning bolt of like go let's do, let's just put this bass down. But the Queens of Stone Age thing was like this collective lightning bolt of like, cool, let's do this, let's do this.

Tracking live and like you're all in the same room, like face to face. Like it was fucking mean. Like it was hungry. It was great. And so I go do that and it's fucking badass. I was like, oh, this is good. Those guys are really good.

They're fucking great. They are. I really like them. I this is good. Those guys are really good. They're fucking great. They are. I really like them. I've always said that they are, when they hit the stage, they're the best rock band in the world. Like, nobody even gets close. There's amazing live bands who write powerful songs, Rage Against the Machine.

There's amazing live bands that can make an audience go like this, The Prodigy, stuff like that. Yeah. There's amazing live bands that can make an audience go like this, The Prodigy, stuff like that. Yeah. But for musicality and as a musician, you sit and watch Queens of Stone at June and you're like, that's not fair. Right. What the fuck?

Like everybody in the band is a fucking badass. And they know it. So anyway, so I made that record. So it was almost like you had an affair yeah i was like yeah i'm gonna do this thing uh with this other band and so and it was the first time i played drums really since nirvana yeah and i fucking miss it you know like it's hard for me i can't just go join some fucking band i have to join a band where i'm just like yeah you know i gotta really fucking be into it and so all of a sudden

i'm in it and into it the songs are fucking great and i'm fucking it were great and i thought okay and then i tried finding them a drummer like here's you could try this guy what about this guy and then i thought okay before they get a drummer who's way fucking better than me let's just do one show and we did a show at the tributor and at the end of that show um mark lanigan uh who's one of the singers in the band yeah he said man it'd be a shame if that's the only time we did that and so meanwhile i'm fucking making a record over here that is kind of uninspired and then i'm over here kicking ass i'm like you know what i need to like go do this and the guys were bummed they were like they're like okay bye and it turned into

it turned into something that wasn't gonna gonna end well and then that coachella was coming up foo fighters were playing one day queens Foo Fighters were playing one day Queens of the Stone Age were playing another day and I thought it was going to be our last show I thought like okay this is it this is fucking 2002 or something

2001 so you're right in that 6-7 year range right there and then did both and somehow everyone just went okay and we kept going but you know at this point it's like i always say that it's like we can't break up now that's like your grandparents getting a divorce like why even what the fuck are they gonna do you know what i mean so why, we just have to just ride it out.

You guys can still sell out stadiums, though. Mm-hmm. Since that's the case, I would say don't break up. I agree. But you know what a lot of people do? A lot of people, the police did it right. The police did it right. That's the all-time best beginning, middle, end.

I agree. Because they didn't even say, like, fuck you, I quit. We're breaking up. They just never said it. They never said a word. It disappeared for 20 fucking years. And then it was like, the police are coming back. You're like, oh, like fucking all of us were so excited.

Then we go to see them play. Stadiums, everywhere they go. Go to see them play. And it's the fucking police. They sound and look like the police unfortunately they intensely dislike one another that was a problem it happens it's that creative conflict that makes for good things that's one of the documentaries that nobody's really done correctly the police one that i'm just i'm just dying for and i don't know if it ever happened because all three of them would want input in it

and it just, I don't feel like it could ever happen. We would almost all have to be dead. I think the hardest thing would be to find a director that's going to put their fucking hand in that wasp nest. Like, I've been asked before, like, will you do a documentary on blah, blah, blah? Will you do a documentary on blah, blah, blah? And they're bands that are just like fucking hate each other.

And the story is amazing, but I'm not getting the middle of that shit. Right. I'm going to take over my life. Well, that was the Eagles one was as close as anyone got because. It was so good. Because they,

it's basically Fry and Henley are doing it. Yeah. But there's this whole unsaid piece to it that they allude to, but it's clear the band broke up because of those two guys. Yeah. And they're like, here are these other factors. And our other guitarist, he was a pain in the ass and he wanted to be in victim of

love and um but it was really those two guys and the fact that henley ascended fry and initially fry sang more of it and henley was the drummer who sang sometimes and then it turns out henley has one of the best voices of you know that entire generation and it's like hey you know who should sing the songs don henley and then you know fry you know what bothered fry but they could never like dive into that part in documentary that's it's hard and then there's no wall street and then well joe walsh is just he's chainsaw in the hot tub he's the coolest yeah the coolest um the king of what was he the king of room trash or room destruction? I remember being at dinner with him one time and everyone was sort of telling stories and stuff.

And there was someone there that wasn't really aware of Joe's history. And she turns to Joe and she says, were you like a big partier? And Joe says, he goes, kind of, he goes, I was Keith Moonish. Well, that was his,

he was his mentor. Of course. Amazing. But you know, it's when I was, I didn't grow up listening to the Eagles. I didn't either. I didn't even really like them that much.

It's a documentary. And I was like, sorry, like I never, I just didn't like them. And then I saw that movie and how fucking like, I mean, they were,

they were like, they were like the usual suspects. Like they were fucking like these mean assassin motherfuckers singing like peaceful, easy feeling. And I watched that. I'm like, this is great.

I think I like the Eagles though. This is fucking crazy. Fry's stories about how he came up with songs where he's just going, so I'm riding in a car with a drug dealer at 90 miles an hour, and he says, life in the fast lane. I'm like, that's a song. I'm like, there's no way this happens. That's rock and roll.

Yeah. It happens like that. The police one is sitting there, but I don't think it will ever happen. The Nirvana one can happen, right? No, it could happen. Absolutely. You did it a little bit in Sonic Highways. You dabbed it,

but. No, I mean, you know, things are good. Like if, if we were, if everybody put their heads together and really wanted to do something like

that, I'm sure we could do it. Like, I don't think it would be, it's not impossible. It's just a matter of like. Isn't all the right stuff screwed up? Why?

What's that? Isn't all the right stuff like a real issue okay i have to be perfectly honest i don't fucking you don't even understand it no right i don't like i'm that guy that i have kept blissfully outside of most of the business stuff that we do yeah conceptually i have you know i've had the same manager for 30 years. I've had the same accountant for 30 years. I've had the same monitor guy for 30 years. We all started in the fucking van and here we are.

And so we've learned everything along the way, but we learned to love each other and become like this family. So anything we do,'d like you know we kind of protect what we have and um so but i still to this day like i don't want to fucking know about money i know it sounds shitty but i never had any when i was fucking young right mom was a public school teacher lived in a house in springfield virginia worked at a fucking furniture warehouse wanted to go to parsons to be a fucking commercial art

design guy too fucking stupid too fucking poor that wasn't going to happen so i played drums in a punk rock band worked at the fucking furniture warehouse and was totally happy like i didn't need more and then when the whole thing fucking went nuts it was just like oh my god this is fucking cool like i bought a fucking i remember the first thing i bought i got 400 bucks i think i was 21 and honestly that was like pretty much the most cash i'd ever had in my hand i bought a fucking bb gun a nintendo and some whippets so this is back then but so um but i don't like when i work with people i don't want to have i don't i prefer it to not be a business relationship yeah i like to work with people um on a personal level too so that um you're doing things my guitar tech when he hands him my guitar i don't want him to hand

it to me because he's getting paid i want him to hand it to me so that i go out there because he wants me to go out there and fucking shred yeah and that's kind of how it works so i don't know like i don't know how i don't know how much my guitar tech gets paid i don't know how much my fucking tour manager gets paid and i tell everybody i don't want to know don't fucking tell me ever so i have no idea. So to me, it's not a business. It's a fucking group of people that have known each other for a quarter of a century that just fucking party. Right.

It's fucking great. So with the Nirvana stuff, I mean, it's complicated, obviously. It's more complicated than most situations. But anything's possible if people would actually want to do something then yeah but i wouldn't direct it that's for goddamn sure what's your yeah i wouldn't expect you what's your feeling on bands as we head into the 2020s just in general where there's lots of things and no i'm just like I think if we've learned anything over the years

it's the individual artist is gonna get more attention make more money the whole thing because we have this whole 60 year history of oh bands broke up

because this one person was bigger than the other people who were sharing all the profits he's like well fuck that I'll just do this myself yeah and then also the way the way I don't know the internet social media and all that it's all geared toward one person

do you feel like the concept of a band is going to start drifting away no no so you're optimistic absolutely okay well just as you said like kids are listening to music now the same way we listen to music when we were young because i'm optimistic too because i saw i say with my son i'm like maybe this circles back and we have like a renaissance of people who want to be in bands again because it's like the cool yeah to jam with some and what a lot something that not a lot of people think about is um the the interaction between musicians while they're playing so i've been in bands before like my high school band like the drummer was like in the key club and then the fucking singer was like the quarterback of the football team and then right the other guy was like the weird nerd that's

in science club or whatever and then we didn't the only thing we really like connected and had in common was when we played like jump and jack flash or something like that so you could communicate with someone without words right and there's some socialization in that and and it sort of teaches you how to um how to be with other people playing music. It's a great way to bring people together. It's like a basketball team. I think it's very similar. I do too.

Just as I have this thing where drummers, I was a goalie my whole life. Like I didn't, and I don't know anything about sports at all. I was a fucking, I was a soccer goalie from the time I was six years old. That totally makes sense. To 13 years old. And that's a psychotic position. And then of course, and then a lacros soccer goalie from the time I was six years old to 13 years old.

That's a psychotic position. And then a lacrosse goalie in high school. Just getting belted. But there is something similar. It's similar to being a drummer. The fucking buck stops here. You're the goalie. It's your fucking ass.

And those guys, and in a band, a band is only as good as its drummer. And this is absolutely true. No question. It's a fucking stupid cliche, but it's true. I wrote this whole thing,

I'm going to say 2013. You know enough to know LeBron James and Dwayne Wade when they joined in Miami with Chris Bosh. It was the big three. I don't know about that. LeBron James and Dwayne Wade when they joined in Miami with Chris Bosh. It was the big three. I don't know about that. LeBron was the best one.

But the dynamics were basically like a band. Bosh was this guy who could have been the best guy on a good team. On this team, he was the third best guy, so he was kind of the bassist. And then Dwayne Wade could have easily been the best guy on a great team but now he's with lebron lebron's the lead singer and wade's like the guitarist and that's amazing it's very it only lasted four years because at some point did they just lebron's like now i'm gonna go here yeah they won two titles that made four finals but bosh was the one who had to sacrifice. And then I don't know who the drummer was in this scenario.

I guess it was the other nine guys because if the other guys don't make some big shots, you need eight guys to win a title. And that's kind of the drummer. If you have only the three, but you don't have the supporting cast, you're not winning. I don't know if that made sense. Recently, I interviewed The Edge from U2 for this project that I'm doing. And he was talking about how U2 got together.

Yeah. And they've known each other since fucking high school. That's the only band they've ever been in. They're a bunch of Irish kids. Yeah. Like the eighth grade. Eighth grade team. It's nuts. They're've ever been in. They're a bunch of Irish kids. Yeah. Didn't like the eighth grade. It's nuts.

They're like, there's a kid that's got a drum set and whatever. Right. But he was very open about how U2 does one thing really fucking good. But anything outside of the way they do it is kind of a challenge for them yeah you know like they couldn't go play frankenstein by edgar winner or they could you know what i mean like they they do that youtube thing which they fucking invented like

that is their thing and the reason why the reason why it came from them is that it's a combination of specific elements. Like I, I believe in bands because when I go to record demos or like the first Foo Fighters record, that's not a band, that's me playing the stuff. So that's one lens or one perspective on how the song should be.

When you're in a group of people, whether it's three people or five people, whatever it is, everybody's going to hear and, and, and see the song should be. When you're in a group of people, whether it's three people or five people, whatever it is, everybody's going to hear and see the song differently. So it's almost like everyone takes their corner of this thing and just stretches it out like that. And it becomes bigger because it's the energy of all the different people and their vision.

In movies, it always takes three minutes for them to figure out the hit song really well somebody has the riff and then some other guy and then oh oh yeah all of a sudden they're playing they're playing the finished product you know it's i mean there's sometimes that's how we just finished making a record yeah and um and some of those songs, sometimes the best ones happen in 45 minutes. Yeah. Like, I have an idea, and it starts with a drum beat, and then I do a weird percussion thing,

put down, like, a scratch guitar really quickly. Okay, let me go write some lyrics really quick. I sit down, I go, and then fucking, and within 45 minutes, it's like, oh my God, that's maybe one of the best things we've ever written in our lives then there's other songs that there's a riff on the new record i've been working on for 25 fucking years like 25 years first time i demoed it was in my fucking

basement in seattle and every record i'm like oh let's put it on and i'm like yeah it didn't work let's put it on so that one so sometimes it it didn't work. Let's put it on. So that one. So sometimes it's 45 minutes. Sometimes it's 25 fucking years. Well, what is some, a couple of the Foo Fighters songs initially you worked on when you were still in Nirvana? Yeah. And the first record.

Just messing around. Yeah. Because, well, I wouldn't let anyone hear him. Yeah. I thought it sounded like shit. I don't like my fucking voice.

I was like, I just did it for fun. It was, it's kind of therapeutic, you know, to be able to write and then perform something. What kurt's reaction when you would be like hey i have this idea for blank well first of all i mean i didn't come well he's you know one of the greatest songwriters of all that's a tough one yes so you don't want to fucking say hey that's the famous

idea is what the drummer last thing the drummer said before he got kicked out of the band hey guys i got a song i think we should play so um you know i didn't want to like interrupt the process we had it good it's like all i had to do is beat the fucking shit out of the drums like i'm playing disco right right like all the never mind that all that stuff those drum parts that's the gap band i just i was just explaining this to someone recently i'm like oh yeah this is gap in i'm like what i love disco i always have the fucking gap band like burn rubber on me when it's like but that's all dc that's the whole gogo influence and all that stuff well there's a lot of gogo yeah i mean dc and gogo and funk is huge but anyway so when you have like

those three simple elements it's like don't rock the fucking boat and there was one time where i recorded something that i was really proud of and i'm like man i recorded this song i had a studio in my basement i played it for kurt and he was really excited about it um and he he liked the riff and the melody but he didn't he didn't really like the lyric. And so but he was sort of he didn't want to ask if he could change the lyric because he didn't want to, you know, like offend me or something, which, of course, I would have said, like, yeah, do you think I could do things? It'd be great. But but we never did. But so I would just do these things and just listen to them by myself and be like okay that's cool and then i tried again it was almost like i was you know wood shedding or whatever just trying to figure out how to do it and then when the band was over it's like i didn't want

to play music at all just i didn't want to listen to music i was like music that this is this is a drag and then i realized like wait a minute that's the one thing that like actually heals me and makes me feel good i should fucking go make some music and i had these 20 songs that i bet nobody never heard and then you're off yeah do you think because fundamentally that band you could have had three people and filled a stadium if you really wanted to and i think the police were like that too and there's certain bands where three people can do all the work of a four-person fan in sports if we were like yeah this nba team they only play

four dudes not five but they're still smoking everybody else we'd be like that's amazing and in music there don't nobody gets credit for that. I always thought that was weird. I mean, fundamentally, you do need four, but technically you could have had three and done a whole thing. Okay, so... Nobody's ever brought this up to you. Well, no, it's interesting because I think that...

It's never so planned, I don't think. It's always like, I know a guy with a drum set, or I know I wrote these songs. Hey, call blah, blah, blah. Let's get some beers and jam. That's kind of, I mean, of course, that's like the cool organic way to do stuff. But you basically need somebody

who would be able to have to do two of, there's four jobs total. You would need one person has to be able to do two of the four to have a three person thingy. Did you see that thing recently? It came out after Neil Peart died. It was on the internet. It was some dude listening to Rush for the first time,

right? Not a Rush fan. Oh, it was a black guy. I love that guy. I've tweeted a bunch of them. Oh my God, it was amazing. And one of his quotes was like, hold up, hold up. He was like, time right not a rush fan oh it's a black guy i love that guy i've tweeted a bunch of them oh my god it's amazing and one of his quotes was like hold up hold up he's like there's no way this is

only three people and with it with a trio i've been in a few bands with only three people and that much space lends to bigger noise yeah sometimes when you've got like a thousand people on stage it's just like but when it got like a thousand people on stage. It's just like but when it's like a fucking drumbeat a Great bass player a great and a great song. I mean it honestly just comes down to like is it a good song? Yeah, if it's a good song, it could be fucking a hundred people or one but if it's a good song That's what's gonna come through but but trios man. It's Honestly a three-piece band i fucking love them rush police cream i mean there's so many that are so fucking good that guy i became obsessed with them

for like a week and then i got jimmy camo obsessed with them and then i asked him to listen to dream on because he hadn't listened to that yet and he took the request that he listened to dream on and he just like he did the whole like he was having a seizure a couple times i mean those it's funny how the 70s stuff is just not gonna die you know and like same thing with metallica i had uh somebody told me who's in the industry about how with metallica every year there's another 12 or 13 year old kid who's just gonna be, these are my guys. Without a doubt.

And it's just going to go on forever. As long as we have music. Well, I mean, I remember when I first, like I tried to brainwash my fucking kids with the Beatles. I was like, before you go to Iggy Azalea, like let's do fucking Sgt. Pepper's or whatever. And so then I bought them a record player, a turntable, which to them is like, you know, it's like a fucking steam engine. They're just like, what?

But the and I got the Beatles records, this box set thing of all the vinyl. And I sat there and I watched them listen to records. They're sitting on the floor. The album covers are all over the floor. They're reading the liner notes. They're looking at the pictures. They're turning on the floor. The album covers are all over the floor. They're reading the liner notes. They're looking at the pictures. They're turning it over. They're playing it.

They're singing along. And it was honestly exactly the same way everybody has listened to Beatles songs forever, like since the Beatles started. That's how you fucking do it because it's an experience when you do when you do that i think it should be at least but we sit down they were having an experience like a tangible like experience an aesthetic experience where they were like hearing

the music and seeing the images and touching things and like that so yes that can still happen i think it will still happen just as people are gonna your son is a fucking he's a bass player he's not going solo dude he's a fucking bass player okay maybe he moves to guitar at some point i don't know i don't know how that works you never know but he's gonna wind up with someone and they're gonna jam and they're gonna become friends and they're gonna write some songs and they're gonna get that's already that's already happening and they're gonna well he's got this whole hip-hop world too that so he's like between these two worlds where he's doing all that but he does have he has these two friends that he just they have sleepovers you know they're

12 and then they make songs and that's what they do for eight hours and i'm like all right you definitely have the bug i'm not sure where this is going but just kind of stay out of the way and let it go yeah i mean i think also you're gonna want a little bit the one of the well now he has somewhere to go when he doesn't know how to explain himself or now he has somewhere to go when he's gonna write a song about how much he fucking hates you yeah that'll hurt well he'll never say it to your face dad sucks well he just well you know recently recently there was this benefit show in Los Angeles for the Art of Elysium that they do every year.

Linda Perry was putting the whole thing together, the producer Linda Perry. And I know her through things. And she called and said, hey, will the Foo food fighters play at this thing and it was around christmas some of the guys were out of town i was like well we can't do it because some of the guys are gone and she said well could you like could you just do it is there any way you could just do it it'd be really help and it'd be it's a great cause and she sent me all the info

and i was like yeah i could probably do it i said let me put together a band and then i was thinking about it i'm like maybe i'll call chris and pat you know chris novice from nirvana and pat smear we were in nirvana together i'm like maybe like i'll call them well they she only wanted us to do three songs i'm like maybe i'll call them so i text them all i'm like you guys want to do this thing they're like yeah and i he's like what do you guys want to do this thing? They were like, fuck yeah. And he's like, what do you want to play? And there was once when we performed at a Clive Davis party and Beck did Man Who Sold the World with us. Yeah.

And Beck's awesome. He's just the fucking coolest. I was like, let me call Beck and see if Beck's around. I text Beck. I'm like, you want to do Man Who Sold the World? He's like, absolutely. That'd be great. I'm like, shit. And then Annie Clark, St. Vincent, Annie Clark.

I'm like, we jammed a third before. I'm like, oh shit, maybe we could do something with Annie. So she's like, what do you want to do? I'm like, fuck, let's do a Sabbath song. The first song off of fucking Sabotage, which is, I can't remember the anyway like yes it'll be great it'll be super fun and then uh i was like well i'll call joan jett because we jammed with her before too she still got it by the way she sang at wrestlemania amazing still has the pipes yeah she did she was great she's a she sang ronda rousey's entrance song i mean she's got to be she's definitely older than us yes she's still in the pipes she's a badass she's the real deal anyway i was going to tell this other story about the palladium thing about my daughter so

then i say i was like well maybe i'll violet sing a song my daughter i mean she's like she's also one of our backup singers yeah so she's she's played 80 000 people before she doesn't get nervous and she's right great she could really sing so i said to violet i'm like what do you want to do like a bowie song or a cover or a nirvana song she's like i want to do a nirvana song because she's in a nirvana phase unbeknownst to me that's phenomenal because she's she's that age and she's that kid like the whole nirvana thing she's she's the audience we were connecting to 30 fucking years ago so she's like i'm gonna do nirvana song and i'm like oh okay what do you want to do and she said heart-shaped box and i'm like really you had to pick the darkest fucking one jesus i was like where did i go wrong

you seem so well balanced and um so, she's an artist, though. She is, without question, a deep, talented, brilliant person. I don't even think of her, she's about to turn 14. I don't even think of her like she's a kid. She and I are like this. We fucking hang. She's cool. Have you studied the whole Billie Eilish phenomenon?

Yes. So Violet kind of got into Billie Eilish a couple years ago, maybe a year and a half ago. Same with my kids, like a year and a half ago. And she started listening to it and Violet and I were going in, whenever I would be asked to perform at a fundraiser or charity thing,

I'd always say, hey, Violet, you want to come sing a song with me? And she'd go, okay. And she would do like an Adele song or a Beatles song or something, Blackbird. So she goes, dad, I want you to learn this song. Let's do this.

I'm like, okay. Learn the song? She's just fucking assigned stuff to me. Go learn this song but let's do this i'm like okay learn the song she's she's just fucking assigned stuff to me go learn this i want to sing that i'm like okay so and it was this song called i don't want to be you anymore yeah right and i'm listening to it i'm learning it i'm like who the fuck is this yeah this is real like this is a real shit those lyrics and voice wow so i learn it and i say to her i'm like who's this she said it's billy eilish i said who's that she goes oh it's this girl she's you know at the time i think she was maybe 14 or 15 or whatever it was and she said uh she goes she was like a soundcloud thing and then she's got these songs like wow it's really good

and um so then we go and perform it and violet's got a beautiful voice and it turns out great and um then we went to go see her play she was playing at this festival thing in la it's maybe a year and a half ago and um and she has this presence you know it's a real thing but what i started to notice was her connection to the audience and the audience's connection to her like it was that was real the vibe was like oh my god like this is an actual you know this is like this is like this is morrissey you know this is it's almost or frugazi like this is like a real thing not just music and some lights and this is like something bigger um then we went to seer i think it was at the wiltern and when we went to the wiltern that's where i was like okay this is a revolution

like this is all these kids um are are gravitating towards this because they feel like her and those lyrics represent something that they connect to. And it's dark fucking shit. You're not going to get that from like the Hot 100 person who's singing about something. But that was the thing that was stunning to me. Like, you know, my daughter plays soccer.

We're driving around California on weekends and she's putting on the pop music station and it's like Sam Smith, all those type of people. Like, God bless all of them. Pretty bad for the most part just for

me somebody that really loves a certain brand of music i'm like oh fuck she's gonna put her music on and then billy iwish comes on it was like one of those like who's this you you know it just stood out in such a unique crazy way and i'm with you on the stage thing certain people Morrissey was like that especially in the 80s yeah where it's funny cuz I I loved REM I never felt like Michael Staples like that I felt like there was a connection that was missing with him in the audience as brilliant as that guy was I never felt like locked in with him whereas other people I felt like locked in I think you've

you guys have done a great job of that I think that's why people love coming to the concerts they feel like you know they can hang out with you after the show

and they're just in some people don't The Cure was another one that was like that because I used to love The Cure you go see them and he was just kind of like thank you

and you go to the next song and he just didn't really care that anybody was there on our last European tour of course i've like listened to the cure for the last 30 fucking years who hasn't they're amazing they're fucking amazing their songs are great um i was never like a fucking rabid cured devotee that was just like turned into someone in the cure um and on the last trip, we did these festivals in Germany

over the summer. There were two stages. Big stage over here, big stage over here. When that band would end, this band would start. When that band would end, this band would start

ping-ponging back and forth. And the cure were the band on the other, and on the other stage. And so... And they're at the 40 40 year mark at this point it's like yeah they represent they had a 40 year anniversary concert in 2018 yeah you imagine well yes okay so then so they're over there playing their fucking arsenal of hits that everybody's grown up listening to and loving.

And I was so fucking like, to me, that's, that's one of the things I love the most to see these people survive. Yeah. To see a band like Pearl Jam. Oh my God, they survived.

So many people didn't. And to see them still fucking out there kicking ass. They hit that point. Which point? The breakup point? Yeah. Everybody does, dude. It's like puberty.

Mid-90s. It's like it just happens. And he had to take the band. And once they all realized that, they were fine. Really? Yeah. Because they brought him in. They hired him.

Anyway, so fucking Cure are playing over there. We're playing over here. And so I give a big shout out to the cure i'm not gonna see you for the cure it was nuts and uh then i'm playing on bob smith instead of robert you can go way back and i look over the side of the stage and he's standing there watching us really yeah and it's like robert smith 60 000 people big ass festival and he's on the side of the stage i'm like yes this is fucking great so there's a break and i walk up to him uh someone's doing a solo or something and i'm like hey man how you

doing he's like and i said this next one's for you and we walk out there and i go right into all my life and like when we do that it's like it's like a jaws movie that, it's like, it's like a Jaws movie, dude. Yeah. It's like, and then when it goes, bam, it kicks in. The place fucking goes insane. It's the best feeling ever. Yeah. Every night. It's fucking awesome. So, bam, get the fucking audience is going bananas.

And then we do a runner right off the stage into the van. My tour manager texts me and says, just so you know, Robert Smith is in the last van. He wants to fucking hang in the bar. I was like, i stayed up with robert smith this is amazing 5 30 in the morning yes the only guys in the bar for like five fucking hours and he's like so who do you think's gonna win the superbowl no he was he's the greatest and absolutely real yeah like that whole thing his vibe the songs the lyrics the way that the sound that is him like that is how he is but you never really know so when you see somebody like that on the stage do you think to yourself let's just bring this dude out yeah we'll play that with rick astley do you know when we did that with rick astley i don't think i know this one dude okay so who doesn't love her come on he's the best so there was some bbc thing

where they wanted all of these current bands to do covers for some bbc special and um they wanted us to and we've rickrolled westboro baptist church a few times yeah they come to our shows and they're like you're going to hell and so we always fuck with them somehow right anyway so we're no stranger to never gonna give you up so i thought hey let's let's do our a version of never gonna give you up for this bbc thing like cool we gotta learn it we gotta practice it because when we get home from this trip we have to do it yeah backstage at our shows we have a jam room to warm up in so we show up to this festival in tokyo the tokyo dome or whatever all these different bands playing and i look on the schedule and rick astley is playing at this festival in tokyo the tokyo dome or whatever all these different bands playing and i look on the schedule and rick astley is playing at this festival too

we missed him he played before us and i'm like oh my god it but it reminded me i was like you guys we have to learn this song because we got to go do it when in a week when we get home let's learn the song so me and taylor are sitting there trying to learn it right the other guys come in. I'm trying to figure out how I'm never going to give you up works as a rock song. I'll tell you. It's the exact same arrangement as Smells Like Teen Spirit. I'm not kidding. I'm not joking one bit.

There's the intro. There's the drum break. There's the verse. There's the pre-chorus. There's a re-intro. There's the riff. It's the fucking same. That's so we start playing it instead of it going um totally joking we start going and and it starts sounding like smells like teen spirit yeah and

it's so funny we do it 10 times in a row, dying laughing. We're fucking cracking up. Like, oh my God, it's the same song. Let's play it so it sounds like Smells Like Teen Spirit. Same drum intro. Yeah. And then we have to go on. And we're like, cool.

It's gone. So we go on to play. And we're playing. And I look over. This is 20 minutes later. I look over, and Rick Astley's on the fucking side of the stage. You could see him from a mile away because he looks exactly the same. Right.

And I'm like, oh, my God. And someone's doing a solo. I fucking run up. I'm like, hey, I'm Dave. He's like, hey, man, I'm Rick. I'm like, I know. I said, we just learned your fucking song 20 minutes ago. Do you want to come out here and do it right now?

And he said, fuck yes. We had just learned it 20 minutes before. And I said, it kind of, we do it sort of hard. He's like, fucking great. He's like, I'll be fine. Dude, we nailed it. Is this on YouTube? Yes.

I don't know how I missed this. It is. This is my wheelhouse. We've done it a few times now. But yes, this is my wheelhouse we've done it a few times now but yes this is this is two years ago it was such a triumphant

momentous fucking it was like all the stars aligned see I love crossovers and the Grammys always fucks them up it's tricky though dude

but when it works and I always wonder why I went to Flea's charity benefit like two months ago and Eddie was there. Yeah. And then they were all just on the stage together and it was like, this is cool.

Eddie and the Chili Peppers. Did it work? I don't know. Sometimes it doesn't. I was like, this is Eddie and Anthony together. And it was just like, this is something. But I like the crossovers. But when they go bad,

they go bad. It's hard. There was a show, Ken Ehrlich, the producer of the Grammys, from Chicago, he used to have this show, I can't remember what it was called,

where that was basically what he would do. He would take two artists, I think this is in the 70s. He would take two artists that seem unrelated and put them together on stage just to see what would happen. Yeah. Sometimes it worked.

Sometimes it didn't. With the Grammys, it's kind of this, it's a fucking crapshoot. But that's kind of when magic happens. It's like when I fucking, when I see someone in the audience it's got a sign playing guitar and you're fucking my hero or whatever yeah if i'm in the mood or if i'm fucking feeling like this shit needs to like bump up a little bit i'll look and see someone

that wants to play on the song and i'll go do you fucking know the song do you actually fucking know it i'm like yeah and if it's great and a total stranger, if they come up on stage and it's great, it's amazing. If they come up on stage and shit the bed, it's amazing. Like you kind of can't go wrong. Well, the best one I think of all time was when Prince, after George Harrison died. Stole the show.

I agree. And it was like- Everybody's faces like, look at all these cool guitarists. Prince is like, hey guys, hold my beer. It just crushes them. Oh my God. That's the best case scenario. We got to go, I think. I really have to piss.

Yeah, I do too. This was great. We're two old people. Thank you. Good to see you. Thanks to Dave Grohl. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to Z Grohl. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to Zip Recruiter. Don't forget to check out the rewatchables and the Book of Basketball this week, as well as everything else on the Ringer Podcast Network

and theringer.com. Back later in the week with more. Until then. I don't want to see them on the wayside. I don't have.