The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Trade Deadline, Part 2: Lakers, Lowry, Pelicans With Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

In Part 2 of the NBA trade deadline coverage on the 'BS Pod,' The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Raptors trading Norman Powell to the Trail Blazers for Gary Trent and Rodney Hood. Then Kevin O'Connor joins to discuss the Lakers being surprisingly active, George Hill to the 76ers, Terrance Ferguson to the Knicks, Austin Rivers to the Thunder, no trade for Kyle Lowry, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. All right, this is part two of the massive, in the moment, NBA trade deadline pod. Ryan Russillo is here. It is now 1123 PT, 223 ET. The trade deadline is coming up in about 37 minutes. We've had a lot of trades already. We'll go through some of the biggies. We talked about

Orlando in part one with Kevin Clark. We also had a really interesting Toronto Portland trade, Rosillo, Norm Powell for Gary Trent and Rodney hood. Um, another score, Norm Powell, Toronto selling all time high on him. Norm Powell has been red hot for the last,

I don't know, four weeks. And, uh, Trent was somebody that I really liked as a playoff guy, but I think Portland was probably thinking we can't really play Lillard and McCollum and Trent together at the end of the games. We're just too small. Even if Trent's a good defender, we need more scoring, a little, a little bit more size, maybe a little, a little bit more of a heat check. And they nail Powell hood. Who cares?

Trent, I think is a piece what you think of that trade I really like Norman Powell uh just as a score and a story you know second round guy and and the way they used him and you know you when you go back to that finals run you're like you know this guy can get shots in a bunch of different ways and that's one of the great impressive things about this Toronto group the last couple of years is that he felt like everybody that had the ball was pretty capable as getting their own shot, which is pretty rare. So I liked him. He seems

pissed off all the time, which I kind of like too. And he had a player option next year at $11.6 million that he's definitely going to decline. So Toronto knew they couldn't re-sign him. We're still waiting to see what happens with the Lowry thing. They've invested a ton of money in Van Vliet. Siakam, who's a big part of their investment,

I was wondering if he was available at all with the Nick Nurse thing because that got pretty nasty. But Powell, it feels like Portland's just like, look, man, of all the options that are out there, they were on a couple other people, but they probably just feel like Powell's a big offensive upgrade over Trent. And Trent's had his moments. Trent's going to end up having a career here

and Toronto gets control over a guy that's still on a rookie deal. So I feel like they feel like Powell's the upgrade in that. And then maybe they're just going to throw three guys that can create off the dribble and try to beat you that way because they're not going to stop anybody. I was pretty shocked by this season Trent is having. He's 15 points a game,

41 games for the Blazers. Let's take it seven and a half threes a game. He's making 40% of them. I mean, he's the classic three and D guy. Um, it just seems like Portland is looking at this going. We don't have enough scoring. We have these two guys and a little bit of canter and that's it. And pal gives them a little more size, all that stuff. But Trent's a good piece. I thought that was a really good trade for Toronto. I thought Powell was going to end up being

like a Fournier type pullback where it's like two seconds or late first, something like that. Trent's a real guy. Like to me, that's a trade asset. They could spin him right now to a contender. He's so cheap. And on a team like pick seven semi contenders,

that guy would play for any of them. So for me, it's like, I like the deal. Even if Toronto doesn't trade Lowry and they just keep the team they have, I kind of like the deal for them anyway. If they feel like, fuck it, let's go for the playing game. The Lowry piece. So now it's 1120.

So we got 33 minutes left. It seems like they've been trying to drum up this Lowry market that I never believed in. Uh, especially the Philly piece. Once it became clear, clear, Philly had a chance to get George Hill, which they did. They gave up nothing for George Hill. Just a couple of contracts. Um, some, some meaningless picks and you get George Hill in a good contract, good three-point shooter, good vet. He's been in a lot of big games over the years. Why wouldn't I do that over getting rid of Danny Green, putting Max in the deal, taking on more money? I just felt like that was a much safer, smarter trade. What'd you think? It's just an easier one to pull off because you go back to hill last

year in a winning environment and he shot the hell out of the ball and you probably trust him you know lowry's just good i mean look lowry's another level of closing a game and feeling like all right i can trust this guy he makes a bunch of those winning plays he can play off the ball he can initiate your offense you know that's that's the thing that's really appealing about lowry even at 35 years old but it's a 30 million million contract, so you've got to get within 25%. It's just hard to pull that deal off when you already understand where your team is.

Whenever I saw the Philly rumors, I'm like, why would you want to give up Maxie for a rental? I think Darryl may have been more willing to move him than the coaching staff was. I'd be more scared to give up Thibault than Maxie. I think Thibault was the playoff guy. Yeah, and he shot it better because

Thibault, the big knock on him coming out of school was like, this guy can't shoot the ball at all. And then you didn't know if it was a little fluky that he was making shots. And then he wasn't making shots again this year, and then he's had a really good stretch. And then you're thinking, all right, first rounders. I mean, look, teams are not in a hurry, even though they're just dumping first rounders all the time, but they're dumping first rounders for guys

on the higher end that they have control over. And Lowry as a rental to move that kind of asset, unless you felt like, okay, this guarantees us the number one seed and puts us over the top of the nets, which, you know, the nets are so scary right now doing what they're doing without Durant. Um, you know, Philly probably goes, you know, this is a little bit too much. So we'll see what happens. The Lakers seem to be kind of this sneaky team. That's, that's hot on some stuff. I still stand by what I said about Lowry, like expecting to be traded. I didn't guarantee that he was going to be traded.

I didn't say that I know he will be. But boy, the way he walked off the court last night looked like a guy that expected to be traded at some point today. So this is kind of confusing. Yeah, you take nothing more personally than when you say something on the podcast that you know is true. And then somebody chirps back on Twitter about it. And then it ends up happening exactly how you said it. You said on this pod a couple weeks ago, Larry's been telling people, you know, this is it.

He's going to get traded for deadline. That's with 30 minutes left. They're trying to trade him for the deadline. I would say you were correct. The question for me is, first of all, Philly was probably like, who are we competing against? Why do we have to give up Green, Maxie, a contract?

And Curry was even rumored, you know, to get to the money. You're like, why do you want to trade Seth Curry? So are we competing against Miami? Because if Miami is going to be in on this, they're not getting him

for a droggage and precious and Andre Guadalla. Like they're going to have to throw in Hero. That's how they're going to have to get Lowry, but they're not getting him. And they'd also have to match contracts. They'd have to send out either Iguodala or Dragic.

So that makes the team a little bit weaker. Maybe Duncan Robinson, I don't know. But I've never totally bought the Miami thing unless Hero's involved, because then why is Toronto trading Lowry if they're not getting at least one potential blue tripper? And then the Lakers really would have to be

Schroeder and KCP and maybe Talon Horton Tucker. Which I don't think you want to do at all. I mean, unless you're worried about not being able to keep him. So, I like Lowry. You know, I know I complain about him,

but I get it. I get what he brings to a team and I get what he brings to a... You know, I know I complain about him, but I get it. I get what he brings to a team and I get what he brings to a, you know, there's just a lot of guys that you trade for and you go, okay, but is he going to understand how he needs to fit in? You know, that's the most important thing

in basketball, especially when you're not the best player. And so I think that's what he brings you. But that $30 million number is really hard to get to, especially for a contending team. You're like, okay, we're pretty good right now.

We have a chance. So how much money can we really move out here just as contract filler to grab a guy that's only going to be here for a couple months? So we'll see. Well, and then with the Lakers, the only reason I would think they would, there's two reasons is Trey Schroeder,

who I think has played pretty well for them. He's still not a great three-point shooter. He's at like 31% this year. So deep down, you're thinking round two, round three, round four, they're probably going to be leaving this guy open. Do we want him deciding our destiny? Whereas Lowry, just an incredible playoff guy. You saw it in that Celtics series last year.

He has every trick in the book. He's incredibly competitive. He's just somebody you want on your side in a street fight, which is most good playoff series become a street fight. At KCP, they can replace him pretty easily. Taylor Horton Tucker, if that's the cost to really get Lowry,

I would do it. And then you have the Schroeder piece of he wants an extension. Do you want to pay that guy $25 million a year? You want to pay him $100 for four? $90 for four? $85 for four? Whatever. I guess that would be the reason to do it. My question is, is that enough for Toronto? I really think I'm just keeping Lowry at that point.

If that's, if that's the best offer I'm getting, I thought Denver was a possibility, but they ended up moving in on, uh, Aaron Gordon. And then after that, I don't, I don't know where else the Cl Clippers, right now it's 11.32 Pacific time. The Clippers just traded Lou Williams in two seconds for Rajon Rondo. So they have officially moved on from Lou Williams, who was the secretly worst playoff player the last 10 years.

And I think he really was. Like a disaster on defense and somebody who in every playoff series, year after year, sucked. So now they have Rondo who's going to maybe give them some leadership and some toughness. And finally, somebody who incorporates other teammates in his basketball. They were like a series of solo acts. And now somebody who's a little more inclusive. I think that's a really good fit for him.

Yeah, they needed better point guard play. And they were pretty limited because their sign guys, the guys they want to keep, they're not moving. The other guys are, I mean, look, the Canard deal and the Morris deal were bad as soon as they were signed, which I think they kind of understood based on their limitations. So nobody was trading for any of that stuff. So adding anything to a point guard position, which is a problem for them, and they're also banking on the fact that Rondo's going to turn to this guy

because I still think Rondo's playoff run last year for the Lakers is one of the most unlikely. We can joke about the playoff Rondo stuff. He turned into a lethal spot-up shooter. And when you compare this all to Lowry, there's just no fit there for the Clippers. The Lakers, it's complicated.

I think basketball-wise, it made the most sense with the Clippers. The Lakers, it's complicated. I think basketball-wise, it made the most sense with the Sixers. But you said something earlier, because I agree with where you're at with Lowry, but that's a pretty significant 180 from who he was for a bunch of years when Toronto was just getting their asses handed to him in the playoffs. Yeah. He and DeRozan had some stretches where you're just like,

I don't trust these guys to do anything. I think the 2019 run was a career changer for him. And also like, you know, he's a little older. He was always an annoying player to play against, but he figured out how to do all the things that we liked about him and kind of amp them up in the playoffs in a lot of good ways. He's just, he's a bitch to play in the playoffs. That Celtics series, I still have PTSD from with, where they had the way more talented team and it was just like Lowry and Van Vliet were so freaking tough and doing so many things

and those charges and he gets especially in a seven game series he starts getting in your head with those charges and stepping on your toes and all the little stuff he does which I think if you're playing Brooklyn in the finals if you're the Lakers that's somebody I need in that series,

you know, and that, that would be why I would do it in the all-star game at the end. And thank God he didn't get it. Cause that's just, you know, that's like a pickup game. Yeah.

But I think like, you think you're playing Harden and Kyrie and KD and they're, they probably have a tiny bit more talent. What's the best way to beat those guys to try to fuck with them? Try to fuck with all three of those guys. Harden, his playoff success has been well-documented or lack thereof.

Kyrie, who, you know, he floats in his own universe and maybe he's somebody you don't want to talk to, but that's somebody like, hey, Lowry, can you fuck with Kyrie for seven games? Can you just make his life a living hell? Can you do everything you can to try to knock him out of his game? I think that's something he could potentially do. Just defending him and being like,

have you ever thought if maybe we're living on water and water is land? Like Kyrie just can't shoot it well Be like well So Rondo the Clippers It changes my opinion of them a tiny bit Because I just felt like Reggie Jackson, Lou Williams Luke Kennard, whoever

They were always going to have a shitty guy in that guard spot In terms of playoff Do I trust him? I just don't trust any of those guys in the playoffs. I don't trust them in a game six, down three, two, any of that stuff. I trust Rondo. We saw it last year. He was the third best guy in the Lakers for three straight rounds.

Something else, too, that you said that I think is accurate for another reason, how you were kind of calling the Celtics Clippers East because for a stretch now, however many years this has been with the Celtics, you're just like, okay, who's playing tonight? You know, what is the team's lineup this week? And that's been the case for the Clippers. And what Clippers fans would always say,

well, hey, you know, look at us. I think at one point, I don't know, I haven't updated yet because I know they've had a couple of losses in there. They're 19 and six this season when Kawhi and Paul George played. And iti and paul george played and it was it was just constantly like doesn't matter doesn't matter doesn't matter and i'm kind of like you know what i'd love is two months heading into the playoffs of you knowing exactly who you are

and you and i were talking late last night because we were just kind of going back on some stuff and we mentioned the celtics close losses again this week. And you're like, you know, this is a team that just doesn't have that toughness. And I feel like the Clippers are another example of this where they don't love adversity. They don't, there's times this season, if they're smoking you, they look awesome,

right? Front runners. And I'm not, that's not unique. You know, when teams are up 20, they just feel better. They look like a better body language,

but they've had a bunch of moments this year where the Clippers are, I go, are you guys, do you have any edge here? Like who, who are the tough guys? You would think if Rondo, and he has to be engaged, he's back in Los Angeles,

he's with a team that has a chance, he's playing with two terrific players, that there's a guy there that's just not, he's not going to be afraid of any basketball moment. And adversity seems to maybe be the biggest issue with the Clippers.

They just don't respond as well to it, much like Boston. Couldn't agree more. This is a team, if you had a fantasy draft two months ago and said, what team will have a guy who had to skip a game because he had too much coffee before the game and was too over-caffeinated and had to sit out, you would have guessed the Clippers

and probably Paul George, I think, right? Maybe JaVale McGee is a runner-up. I don't know what the list is. The Rondo, Paul George, Kawhi, Marcus Morris, Abaka, crunch time. Your thoughts. Abaka is, he was so good against the Celtics last year. And I think if they had just said,

hey, let's just play him into the ground and never play the Gasol minutes, then maybe Toronto wins that series. Agree. Every time Gasol was out there, they just looked a lot worse in that matchup against Boston. So look, that's a specific matchup.

But that's the part where I've had roller coasters with different players where Ibaka in the beginning, you're like, man, look at Sam Presti, look at this pick. And then you think of the blocks and then you go, wait a minute, though, is he just a block guy who's bad defensively? And how come now he's a two guard on offense? So then I was like, you know what? You can have that guy. Orlando, you know, people were throwing him money and you just go, actually, it sucks when you pay him. So I was off of him. And then Toronto, I thought he was terrific in the finals against Golden State. He had some huge moments in that game six that weren't just buckets. It was just what he was doing, how he was impacting the game. And then last year, so I thought

he was an upgrade over Montrez. But I don't know that we can judge. The biggest fear I have with a lot of this regular season stuff is I don't know that we're getting the best indicator of who everybody is. So I like that group as a closing playoff group a lot. But Rondo has to keep you honest defensively with some of the shooting.

I hope it doesn't turn into Kawhi not getting as many chances to initiate the offense. Because Kawhi, playoff mode, get to the elbow, get up and get that shot over you, is probably one of the most lethal things when it's going right. So I don't want to lose any of that stuff. And then I imagine Morris is the guy. Go ahead. We had the same intel on Kawhi, though, that he doesn't want to be the initiator on the offense.

That was a big issue with him and Doc Rivers last year. But it's the best thing they do. I know, but that's why he played so well with Lowry. I think he wants some of that burden to be taken off him. So that's something Rondo I think could do. And Morris, I think now that he has Rondo makes a little more sense in that, in that five, when you have the Reggie Jackson in there now,

it's like, all right, all five of these guys are just kind of on their own schedule during this, during this game, especially the last five minutes. I thought that's why they had so much trouble. It was very similar to the Celtics, where you have guys that are good players,

but not inclusive. So when things slow down, it's just like, all right, your turn. All right, now it's my turn. I'm going to dribble through my legs a few times and do a step back. Hey, now it's your turn. And it just doesn't work.

And I think that's why both teams, the Celtics lost again last night. How many close games have they lost in the last four minutes? Over 10, 12, 13, where you just feel like they're not going to pull through in these things. I felt that way a little bit about the Clippers,

even though they're a much better team. So fun to have Rondo on the Clippers, especially if we have a Clippers-Lakers thing. And we should talk about the Lakers quickly because I think both of us heard the same thing. They were way more active the last few days than I think any of us expected, considering that if Davis and LeBron are healthy, people still think they're the favorites. But it seems like everybody on that team is being bandied about except for those two for those two guys and i was surprised by

that and kuzma i guess hasn't i haven't heard kuzma's name in anything but a bunch of their guys have seemed to be available they seem very aggressive were you surprised by that yeah a little bit because i don't know if it was just them saying hey can we improve this group is there someone we can pick off or do we need to solve a problem because it's kind of hard to think when you go back to the beginning of the year, all of us are in agreement. Hey, this team's better now. They're better now.

And this is scarier now. So I'll defer to you on this one because I think you probably heard more than I did on the Lakers part of it. But I mean, what were you hearing? I mean, was it that they were actively trying to get rid of guys because they didn't want to resign them? Or was it just hoping to maybe figure out a way to improve a part of the game? Because they can't shoot it, but they couldn't shoot it when they got back to the bubble

last year and it didn't matter. Oh, Kevin O'Connor is here. Hello, Kevin. Can you hear us? We're talking about the Lakers. So right now it is 11.42. There's 18 minutes left.

We're talking about how the Lakers have been a little more active leading up to the trade deadline than we expected. The one thing that I was amused by was it seems like they had to have Harold on their team for two months to realize that he can't guard anybody and that he's a defensive liability. I thought they knew that when they signed him, I thought, you know, they signed him as basically like six man energy off the bench, which is what he's supposed to be, right? You're not, he's not supposed to be somebody who's closing games with you.

I don't think, um, Kev, were you surprised the Lakers were, uh, kind of involved in a lot of these, uh, trade trade chatter thingies? No, because I shouldn't become complacent here. They just shouldn't be. You have LeBron James and Anthony Davis, both dealing with injuries here, and you have other teams in the Western conference that are legitimate threats to make a run at them. So I actually appreciate the fact that the Lakers are at the least. I mean, we'll see if they do make a big move here, but at the least they are sniffing around trying to do something. I think it's a wise thing to do here. And if you if you

pull the plug early in a guy, it's better than doing it late. I think that's the best thing you can do. If you've realized something's a mistake early. Make a change. Why sit on it and wait three years into that contract and deal with him being played off the floor in the postseason when you could get a buyout guy and make space for him instead? It makes total sense to me what the Lakers are doing or trying to do.

I wish I had realized that when we brought in Nephew Kyle. But sometimes you live in the... Kyle, I'm kidding. I just wanted to make sure you're paying attention. We're going to take a quick break and then get KOC's takes on the deadline as we head to the final stretch here.

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let's go speed round. Did you think Orlando got 100 cents on the dollar for Vucevic? More than 100 cents or less? About 100. It feels like good value to me. I still like Wendell Carter.

Good value for him. I'm glad we're blowing up, though. Are you threatened by Carter on Bomba's Corner? I don't know if the Bomba signs can happen now. What happens here? They're the two guys that I liked. I'm happy to see them together on the same team. Hopefully one of them pans out.

I had 45 cents in the dollar for Gordon to Denver. What do you have on that one? I think about 50, 60, something like that. I love that deal for Denver What do you have on that one? I think about 50, 60, something like that. I love that deal for Denver. You guys talk about that one? Yeah, we both like it. That's a big win for them. Big time. Yeah. Jokic,

we were doing a whole thing about Gordon. If it's ever going to happen, it's probably going to happen when you're playing next to Jokic. Yeah, he can be there. Jeremy Grant, he can be their screener. He can defend multiple positions. So much to love with Aaron Gordon. I'm excited to see that. Let's talk about Philly because

we haven't talked about Philly in the pod yet. Philly, a little bit earlier, we talked about, yeah, you should get George Hill basically for free over paying a pretty premium price for Kyle Lowry. That makes sense to me. Rusillo, is George Hill a crunch time?

Is he in the game last five minutes for them? Or do you think he's a bench guy? It depends on the defensive matchup because you got to figure like, all right, if Seth is closing to give you their spacing, I think their best two-man group, and this can be a little misleading,

is Embiid and Seth Curry this year. So, you know, Simmons is going to finish. So you need spacing probably more than Embiid. Thigh bowl. I mean, Harris has been on an absolute tear, too, here. So he's stepped up big time, and their defense has still been incredible for the month of March,

even with Embiid missing the games. Yeah, but I would think they may look at it as a Seth or George Hill thing around Simmons, around Harris, and then figure out the other wing. So it may not just always be Seth and the other three guys or George Hill thing around Simmons, around Harris, and then figure out the other wing. So it may not just always be Seth and the other three guys with George Hill, but I think this at least gives you a little bit more size there.

And I don't know how much you put in any of the George Hill you saw from Oklahoma city this year, because, you know, I mean, those, they didn't even need those guys at times because the thunder keep winning some of these games.

And I can't believe they're winning with the group they put out there. I agree. I think it's a, it's think it's Seth Curry or George Hill, depending probably on matchups and honestly how Seth Curry's playing. But they really thumped Dallas on that Richardson-Curry deal. And I think I just like that they have another guard that they know can just,

he's been in games. He knows what to do. He's not going to take stuff off the table. Do you think Philly's done KOC? We got 12 minutes left here. I mean, not quite yet. They were having those talks involving Danny green with the golden state

warriors. And I've heard that that could be mean Kelly. You ready to go back to Philadelphia. And if that's the case, maybe that opens up a spot for them to get JJ Redick and a buyout. But we'll see with Philly. I don't know how much I love that. Giving up Danny Green.

He's been really good for that. I thought Danny Green's playing well for them. I don't understand why they would even want to move on from him. Why isn't JJ Redick just getting traded? Why would he be a buyout guy? I don't understand that one. Because he's only making $13 million. Yeah, but like Denver could trade Will Barton for him, right? No, you wouldn't do that one. Because he's only making $13 million. Yeah, but Denver could

trade Will Barton for him, right? I think you'd rather have Will Barton. Would you? He's got three years left? No. Doesn't he have an option he can get out? And you're trying to win a title, too. If you're Denver.

And Barton's better right now. So you would probably, if you're Denver, hope to get J.J. Riddick on the buyout market as well, if he does hit that point. Granted, he wants a Northeast team. Yeah, he's got an option next year for 14-6. I was talking to somebody last night. Oh, I thought he had three left.

My bad. Because I was trying to figure out what they would do financially if they were going to pay Gordon, and it would have seemed to make sense. You trade Barton for an expiringiring and then you could use that extra money to put toward the Gordon extension. So you,

you know, you can't have, you have three guys plus Porter coming up eventually. And at some point you can't be paying five guys, you know, big money anyway. Um, so we don't,

we don't think Philly's done. We think Milwaukee's done PJ We think Milwaukee's done. P.J. Tucker, that's it. Maybe an Austin Rivers buyout. That's what I've heard. That if he gets bought out, that's the guy they can target. Nothing big.

So I made that case last week. Instead of trading for P.J. Tucker, I just would have rather had Austin Rivers as a buyout because I think he's more what they need. But I was talking to Ben Thompson about it from Stratechery. Huge Bucs fan. Psycho Bucs fan. He's great. And he was saying, look, we got off DJ Augustine's contract.

And that's the only thing that matters about that trade. I don't even care if PJ Tucker's good. We had to get rid of that Augustine for $7 million a year. And he's right. The Bucs are in a situation where they got off of two terrible contracts, both of which were their fault. But they get Holiday. They stick New Orleans with Eric Bledsoe,

which is, I would say, one of the least appealing contracts we have right now, especially with the way he's playing this year. Milwaukee could have just been saddled with that. And then you look at what New Orleans did. New Orleans now has 116 million of Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe for this year and the next two. That's brutal. They turn Holiday into Bledsoe, Hill, which they turned into Adams. So they turned basically Holiday into this expensive Adams-Bledsoe combo. And then a bunch of crap picks. That trade looks bad all these months later. Am I being too hard on this or you guys are making faces at me?

I didn't expect Bledsoe to be this bad, but it's pretty clear he's checked out. And I think all the guards are having a hard time figuring out what the hell they're supposed to do now because their best offense is letting Zion bring the ball up the court. So I wouldn't change things to make other guys happy when this now appears to be maybe the most unstoppable offense. And I'm kidding, but when Zion decides to go, and we could see a difference in a playoff game if the Pelicans in Zion's prime get to the playoffs and people try to build the wall like they do against Giannis, but Zion's also terrific at still getting through the wall and then passing other guys.

But I think it leaves guys like Bledsoe, obviously Lonzo, who's been rumored, and especially the Chicago's appeared to like him for years here. It leaves those guys in a bad spot. But I also felt like for Drew Holiday to just go, all right, have all of these picks. I'm not going to now retroactively say New Orleans got worked in that deal because they have one year at 18 million of blood. So after the season, because after that two years from now, it's, it's pretty partially guaranteed. So, you know, I don't know what any of those picks are going to end up being at the end. Can I ask you this? What's wrong with just keeping drew holiday? I mean, yeah, they got a bunch of picks, but I think we, and there's a lot

of different reasons for this, but I think these GMs now, they just want to point to all these picks they got. They do. Look at all the stuff Houston got for James Harden. What did they actually get? They got a bunch of picks. And they might get stuck with Lola Depot leaving for nothing. They basically, they could have had Ben Simmons, who's a real guy, who's the top 20 to 22 guy in the league. And instead it's like, well, we got all these picks. I get it when it's OKC, right? OKC got, what they got for Westbrook was amazing. When you look at their stash, like there's like, oh shit, they got some good ones. I look at New Orleans' picks and there's not like a blue chip pick that they have other than their own. And then they got stuck with Adams and Bledsoe too. What do you think, KFC?

I mean, the tough part for New Orleans is, I mean, I agree with Ryan here. The return made sense for New Orleans, and I'm not going to go back and retroactively feel differently about the return. It was a lot for Drew Holiday. One year of Drew? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, it's not bad. It's just now, if you're stacking up which team is going to be able to trade for the next superstar, OKC is still very, very clearly number one with 17 first-round draft picks over the next seven years.

So for New Orleans, they're up against it if it does come down to that bidding war sometime in the future for whatever star might be available, that they're not going to be that team in the driver's seat unless they're giving up a key player additionally, because they just don't have the draft capital when OKC is looming out there with all those. Do you think they should have traded Ingram for Ingram and whatever else it took for Harden during that three weeks when one of the best offensive players of all time

was available? It's not time. It's not the time yet. I mean, I know it's James Harden, but it's not that moment yet for New Orleans to go all in. I mean, I interviewed David Griffin back in December for a story I wrote on the Pelicans, and I asked him about that. Like, when's the right moment to cash in?

And he's like, it's not right now. You know, you don't always know, but it's not right now. The team's too young. You know, with Zion and Ingram, you wouldn't rush that right now, I don't think. What would the rest of that roster

look like around Zion and Harden right now? It wouldn't be good enough. I'm with Kevin, because Harden and New Orleans, maybe not thrilled about it. Yeah, and you know i don't know how many places he was going to be basketball happy and he's clearly that in brooklyn and he's and he's carrying a franchise again through the regular season like we saw that year when houston had all those injuries and he put together those six weeks and they're actually winning games and

they're doing it you know it wasn't like some of these other guys where you're like oh cool look at the stat line we're like okay they lost by 15 again harden wins these games in the regular season so i don't know that you know i i always i'm of the mindset now if you're running one of these teams the number one thing is who do i have that actually likes it here and i'm just not in a hurry to start trading stuff for guys as special as Harden, worrying, okay, but is this guy going to be out of here in a year? And for whatever you think of Brandon Ingram, I think Kevin and I are probably higher on him, Bill, than you are.

I'm almost certain of it. At least I know I have him under contract. I know that he's cool with it. He's probably not going to be really cool with the idea that Zion's going to be the number one option all the time. Is he cool with it? Not that far. From what I've seen, he doesn't seem cool at all with it. No, but it's kind of like the Jalen Brown, Bradley Beal rumors that were out there all the time.

And I go, wait a minute. So Jalen's a young guy who likes it in Boston and is cool with the city. What are you trading for if you're trading for Beal? You're trading for one year of a guy who's supposed to want to stay because he went to the same high school as Jason Tatum. And they work out with Hanlon in the offseason together like that maybe that's true but that seemed to be a bit of a stretch so any of these deals that i go hey should this team have done this should they have done this and all these different things you're like all right well yeah on paper i understand why you'd want to do that but the job is to also make sure you're requiring players are going to want to be there because that's that's not

really what the case is now with a lot of top guys and that are going to want to be there because that's not really what the case is now with a lot of the top guys. And that's the variable with Lowry too, Ryan. What's that? The fact Lowry wants to be in Miami. That's probably a variable that impacted Philly's willingness to go all in. And we'll see with the Lakers.

I mean, Toronto just made another deal. Well, it's the Oladipo thing. I mean, it's exactly what you said. I mean, Oladipo, first of all, Bill, you're absolutely right. Like the job used to be, am I a contender or am I tanking? And unfortunately it felt like more than half the league was going, I'm going to tank. And where the resentment comes in from the other GMs,

they're in that Chicago, let's pick another Western Conference team, maybe New Orleans, you know, Griff, although he's stockpiled the picks. It used to be, oh, this is great. Like the resentment about Sam Hinckley was comical because it would always be like, oh, this guy, like he actually is going to get an extension because his job is, look how bad I am. So there was resentment. So now it's transitioned from, hey, I'm tanking to look at all the draft picks that I've compiled. And Houston probably could have done the Karis LeVert side of it,

but they wanted Oladipo. They offered him the two-year extension, which is the max they could do with the CBA rules of trading for somebody like him. You knew he was going to turn it down. And now the reason, and again, we've only got a few minutes here, so Oladipo could be moved. But the problem is it was like, well, yeah, but I got all the draft picks when in fact, the player that it was built around, it probably wants to go to Miami or New York. And that's why some teams are really hesitant to give you anything for Oladipo right now, knowing he may bounce just like Kevin just said with Lowry to Miami as well. KOC said it wasn't the right time for New Orleans, that they're too young. Zion scoring 26 points a game and shooting 62% from the field. I would argue the right time is

now. He's one of the most devastating offensive players I watch every week. And I kind of wish they had just kept Drew Holiday. I get it. We all thought Milwaukee overpaid from a pick standpoint, just because we didn't know if Giannis was resigning there or not. It was like, wow, this is really risky. But once he resigned, look, all I can tell you is this. I'm never going to be a GM. But if I was a GM and I'm trading one of the best 20 guys in the league, I need to get a guaranteed somebody back.

If I'm trading James Harden, I'm getting Ben Simmons back. I don't care about all these picks that might not amount to jack shit. Like give me somebody who's good that I can put on my team for a few years. And I think that's what's been lost. I think when you trade for all these picks,

it basically buys you time. This is a point we've made in this podcast over and over again. It's like- You basically, you bought. This is a point we've made in this podcast over and over again. It's like, you basically, you bought yourself three more years, Raphael stone. It's going to be three more years before we'll even know if he was doing a

good job or not, because none of those picks are coming in yet. The Orlando GM right now, he's done a reset and now has all these picks. And now we can't evaluate him for another three years. I think it's like this sneaky way to have job security. Absolutely. This is exactly what we're talking about.

Because, I mean, this is tanking now 2.0, even though it's not tanking. It's how, would it surprise anyone to say, hey, you have this job where on the high end you're making millions of dollars a year. Again, there's a couple of lower level guys, but it's not not not so much for the most part you're making a few million running these teams and when you lose it you don't get to just go somewhere else unless you're daryl morey or a very small list of gms that can call their shot to go somewhere else so wouldn't it be normal like this shouldn't be breaking news but i think it's very revealing and you're absolutely right that yeah a lot of guys do the job like, yeah, I want to win.

But I also like to stay here for a long time, too. Yeah. And I think that my issue with New Orleans with the Drew trade, just looking back, I think it's fair to look back. If they had just did nothing, like literally nothing, and you just right now you have Zion and Brandon Ingram and Drew Holiday and you're trying to figure it out at the deadline. I think the price for Drew would have been just as juicy right now. I think Milwaukee would have probably had the same offer that they had way back for that. And I think the weird season and then the short layoff and then just how hectic everything was, I think it screwed some teams up a little bit. If I were New Orleans,

in retrospect, I would really regret not waiting before I decided what to do. And I think to your point about Ben Simmons, it's not like he only has two years left on his contract. He signed through 2024-25. So you'd have a lot of long term security and time if you were Houston to take that deal on and build around him.

And he's somebody that gives a shit. I would have just done the Simmons deal. I would have just done the Simmons deal and gotten it over with. In five seconds. But like Simmons, two firsts and Maxie. Like, good. Call it in the league. That's great.

Versus you have these picks where now you're keeping your fingers crossed that five years from now, Brooklyn's going to suck. And by that time, the GM, he might not even be there. All right. So the deadline is officially here. We're going to end part two. And when we come back, KFC is going to stay. We're going to mail off our files to Kyle.

And we're going to come back with part three of the post-trade deadline podcast here on the BS Buck.