The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Trade Deadline, Part 3: Last-Minute Deals With Ryen Russillo and Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

In Part 3 of the NBA trade deadline coverage on the 'BS Pod,' The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo and Kevin O'Connor to discuss the final minutes leading up to deadline, including JJ Redick heading to the Mavericks, Victor Oladipo to the Heat, the Celtics trading Daniel Theis to the Bulls for Mo Wagner, buyout candidates, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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is still here the deadline has just passed it is 1205 pt 305 et so this is when the uh fun trades start trickling in jj reddick to dallas koc yeah jj reddick and trey lyles james johnson west i1 do going out from dallas nice nice acquisitions for them. I like Trey Lyles and J.J. another shooter to add to that team around Luka. I like what they did. uh trey burke cleaver is a really good three-point shooter porzingis is okay luca's okay you're going down the line and luca's been knocked down bill he's been knocked down lately luca's been knocked down i know big time richardson's the only one who isn't making it but i was of the opinion they actually needed another shooter and i was arguing about it with somebody and they were like no no that we we have good three-point shooting and And I went and looked, they were 19th. They're a 37% three-point shooting team,

which seems really high, but in this day and age, it's actually not that great. I love the fit of Redick with Dallas, Priscilla. What do you think? Yeah, he's going to be better there. He just is. I mean, he's fallen off pretty dramatically, and I think it was frustrating.

I also feel like he was getting his ass kicked a lot out on the court you know what i mean like he was trying to have to cover for other stuff because they were a mess and then he'd end up in some things where it just was really frustrating for him and now his life is easy playing with donchich so if you look at the three-point numbers i mean he'd been in decline pretty significantly from where he was last year i mean he was 45 last year on six attempts and this year he's down to 36% on less attempts and less minutes across the board. And, you know, I don't, Stan, I think, has had a really hard time figuring out

what the hell he wants to do with the guards because he's got two young guys in Kyra Lewis, who I like, and then Alexander Walker. He's still got Lonzo. He's got the Bledsoe situation. JJ's out there. So it was really a tough spot for JJ, and you could see that it just wasn't really working for him. So I'm not off of JJ, but at 36 to see him out there

struggling now, knowing his life is going to be easier with Dallas. I think Dallas is looking at it going, Hey, we don't think he's done. And it's just going to be so much better for him here. When you said Stan has been really struggling, it could have been a dot, dot, dot. And you could have finished that sentence with 11 other things. I mean, you talk about bad moves in the offseason, I would say this Dan Van Gundy signing has to be in the top three. I do not think...

See the coach next year, KFC? From what you've seen, does this guy still... I mean, he'll be the coach next year. Should he be the coach is the other question. But, man, I don't think that guy should be the NBA coach anymore. They got Vanndy for holding zion and ingram accountable and thus far ingram is not improved on defense zion's gotten a little

better he has some credit there he has the peepers on this guy koc he's i mean he was abysmal like i had somebody who who played who was like he doesn't even bend over to get into a stance. And now there's a little bit more awareness and activity. So I'm, look, not that anybody like KOC having a player locked in, but you're absolutely right. So I agree with you. One thing I like about Redick and Dallas, and I think they missed this when they got rid of Curry,

where Curry's not just a stand in the corner, fire up threes guy, right? He's actually a little bit creative. And I think the thing with JJ people just think he just runs in circles and then hits a three falling sideways. He actually is pretty creative sometimes with running high screens and stuff like that.

And I think that's really going to help Dallas. I thought they needed another guy like that. I thought that's what they missed the most from Curry was kind of how sneaky he is with plays that he could create. Now you watch them and it's basically just Donchich

or the random game when Brunson's really good. But I think he's going to help them. I would have been mad if he just ended up on Brooklyn as a buyout guy. Because let's not just stack the deck for them, right?

Like Drummond's another one where, you know, if they got Drummond, I actually think that could bring some problems for them too because he's such a bad free throw shooter. I'm not sure you can play him at the end of games or even close. But Redick, I think you could have.

So I'm glad they didn't just stumble into him. And by the way, on Drummond, a big part of Drummond is he wants to go somewhere where he can showcase himself to get paid again is that so absolutely i don't think that's the nets because we knew this was going to happen right whoever's playing around these guys like they're all going to look incredible like imagine if aaron gordon had been on the nets and be hey, when is this guy going to the Hall of Fame? I mean, Nick Claxton right now has adapted his game, which was a very weird big guy perimeter wannabe

at Georgia. And you're like, wait, this isn't going to work to now. It's hey, dude, just stand in the dunker spot, roll hard, be active. Your life is going to be awesome right now. And Claxton is convinced now he's really good. I mean, he's shoving dudes out of the way, like, look out.

And that fifth guy for the Nets, Blake's going to have 25 in a game and people are going to freak out about it. So Drummond could have some moments, but I think he feels like, no, no, I need to know that I'm playing 30 minutes a night so that I can get that next contract. So I think he's looking at opportunity

more than he would be just a ring to fit in and kind of be part of this big man rotation the Nets are figuring out. Well, if that's true, then Dallas would be the team for him. And I actually think Dallas would not be interested in him. But a team that clearly needs a big guy to compete in a playoff series. Who are the candidates, KOC? It seems like Drummond will go to the Knicks.

The Knicks? Yeah. And they have cap space to sign him to a deal beyond this season. Yeah, we talked about it Sunday night. I like it. You know, the guys, for all his flaws, you're still getting 15 rebounds a game. You're getting somebody who plays hard, I think, at least offensively.

Defensively, maybe not. I don't love it. If that does happen, I think, at least offensively. Defensively, maybe not. I don't love it for the Knicks. I don't love it. If that does happen, I don't love it. Can I add something on the bio? What are they, though? I mean, it's not like they're a championship contender. I think it's worth a flyer, isn't it, for two months? Depends on the money.

Depends on the money. If it's under $20 million, I hope it would be. Yeah. What do you got, Russell? Two things. We have a trade, by the way. Well, let's do the trade first and we can do my little soliloquy later.

Houston has traded Victor Oladipo to the Miami Heat. They have. It is 12.11 p.m. Oladipo to the Heat. It does not say who they gave up. The Raptors are also keeping Kyle Lowry.

I'm staying. Wow. Look at that. It's pretty funny. Wow. I just don't think there was a market. I think when you have somebody who's making $30 million a year,

the lesson is it's really fucking hard to trade that guy. There's just not a lot of salaries that match up when you're talking about contenders. So Oladipo, I guess, either Iguodala's in the trade or Dragic, right? Or maybe Olenek?

Olenek. I would bet on Olenek. So you think it's Olenek and Kendrick Nunn? Well, they got Bialica from Sacramento earlier who can be their new backup for shooting forward. So giving up him makes more sense to me than Iguodala or Dragic. But we'll see when those details come out. That's shocking, though.

It's shocking. It seemed like for days it would be Miami. And for them to now pivot to Oladipo, that was their backup plan. He was their backup plan here. And Oladipo has not been good this season for Indiana or for Houston. I mean, do you guys feel any confidence that Oladipo can refine his all-star form?

Because I haven't seen enough to feel that confidence in him. I don't know who would refine his all-star form? Because I haven't seen enough to feel that confidence in him. I don't know who would find their all-star form on that Rockets roster post-Tardy. Who's coming out good on that team? I guess would be my case. I thought he was starting to have moments on Indiana before he got traded,

where even though that was a weird fit with all those guys and it was like four guys on that team felt like they were the best guy on the team, there were still some moments where he was looking like the old Oladipo. So I think it's a worthy gamble for Miami. It's something we've been hearing Oladipo wanted to go to Miami, what, for three years? I feel like since ever we've had the ringer, there've been Oladipo, Miami rumors. They keep his bird rights, which I think is helpful. Uh,

Rosello end of a game. Is he on the floor? Playoff series round two, Philly. Uh, I, I've got to see steadier play from him because the weird thing about Oladipo is that I feel like physically it's not always about how he looks physically. I just,

I don't know. It's, it's been kind of ugly where I thought even when they came back for the bubble, I go, Hey, you know what? I think I'm starting to see somebody here and who's not even 30. And I just am not willing to accept that he's never going to be the same because of that quad injury. I mean, maybe, maybe doctors will argue about it. I'm sure one doctor would say, Oh, I'll never be the same. I'm sure other guys would say, no, it'd be fine. Uh, I almost felt like he was being like incredibly underrated, but then this year it doesn't work out.

You're right about the Houston part of this. The Houston thing is a disaster. And I really think Miami is probably the only place that he could have gone because it was scaring away everyone else going, why am I renting a guy that I'm not going to be able to resign? Like, what am I actually giving you here? And credit to Woj again, because Woj all week was like the market.

There is something there. There's something that I talked to a team yesterday that thought Houston was stuck with them and they were only going on that based on the fact that they're like, they keep calling us all the time. They keep calling us. So that tells us they don't have anything. And so here we are throughout

the majority of the day here before the deadline being like, I guess they're going to be stuck with them. But the Miami thing only works. And I'm sure the ultimate price coming back isn't going to be that all impressive because Miami's going, why are we going to give you a ton here? We're not going to do a Knicks mellow deal where we're giving you all of these players for a guy we can sign this summer because I still felt like with their cap space and missing out on some of the other bigger names. Maybe they also get the sense that Beal wasn't even going to be available this offseason. We'll see what that means. But it makes a lot of sense for Miami. And Houston's probably lucky to get anything here because so many other teams are scared off

of renting Oladipo knowing he was gone. And there's the other piece, KOC. Houston has to get in the top four to keep their pick. Yeah. They've lost 21 of their last 22. If the pick is five or lower, OKC can switch picks with them. And they're not going to have as bad of a record.

OKC's going to have a better record than Houston, which I think is one of the reasons OKC hasn't really minded winning some of these games because they know they're probably going to be able to flip picks with Houston. The thing is, they've changed the lottery system. So Houston could have the worst record in the league, still not necessarily mean

they will not be in the top four. But anyway, that has to be one of the reasons right that they want to get rid of them yeah for sure i mean for houston they better tank the hell out of the rest of the season now you get orlando's competition in the tank race to the top for kate cunningham and evan mobley i mean so there's some competition there minnesota sucks detroit sucks there's a lot of bad teams orlando yeah or i mean there's a lot of bad teams that are gonna tank how about this season i mean just to emphasize what we're talking about here on the Oladipo market, it's

Olenek, Avery Bradley, and a draft swap. Yep, not much. Oh, so they traded Olenek? Yep. Yeah. They did. That's not bad. I thought he was playing well for them this year. He was part of their closing group. Yeah. Wait, so Olenek becomes a buyout guy now? On a matchup based, yeah. Olenek's a buyout

guy, and I actually think he'd be a decent buyout guy for a contender. Well buyout guy now. On a matchup based. Yeah. Well, Linick's a buyout guy and I actually think he'd be a decent buyout guy for a contender. Well, say it. For Houston now. For maybe the Celtics of Boston. Listen,

Kelly O'Linnick won us game seven against the Wizards. He fucking won that game for us, for Sello. Kelly O'Linn O fucking came in. He took Wall and Bill.

He fucking fucked those guys up. No? You're not with me? He had like 29. Dude, he fucking got Kevin Love pretty good. I'll tell you that. He fucking,

he went, he went to pot it on him. So, bring back IT, KO, problem solved. Oladipo, first of all, has been in the league since the 2013 draft. He's like a little sneaky older than you realize he is. He was, he's 28 years old, turns 29 in May. His big season was the 2018 Indiana season when, to be honest, he was basically having a Donovan Mitchell right now type of season that year, right?

He was awesome. I mean, he was flirting with, I think, all NBA that year. Oh yeah. It's 23 a game. He's 23, five and five, 37% from three, 47% field goal. He's getting the line five times. Here's the thing that jumps out. 2.4 steals a game. Remember, he was like really active on both ends. And that's the thing I haven't seen in Houston. I see a guy who has lost the two-way aspect. But Kev, heat culture.

Heat culture. Could heat culture bring him back? Could they bring him back in the fold? Yeah, you know know I think for Miami this makes sense because instead of giving up Duncan Robinson

and maybe Toronto was actually demanding Tyler Harrow for a trade you get to give Oladipo a chance to come into this heat culture

and find himself again and if not let him walk and then maybe over the offseason you just sign Kyle Lowry then assuming he actually does hit unrestricted free agency,

it doesn't resign in Toronto, but this feels like a hedge for Miami. They improve their odds, this, this playoff run, but they also retain flexibility moving forward with draft picks and young players. So,

you know, more, I think about it as we record here, I do like this from Miami, especially if, if Oladipo can even be a little bit better than he was in Indiana. He doesn't need to be

his full all-star self. I think it's a no-brainer trade. Worst case scenario, he's just unhappy and maybe you send him home with a week to go in the season. Best case scenario, you have an explosive six-man

who can come in and swing games who also gives you a lot of Tyler hero insurance, because I'm not sure any of us have really enjoyed the Tyler hero experience this year. It's been pretty up and down. He has had some really, really bad games.

And if anything, it seems like they've tried to push him to be maybe a level higher than he is right now at this point of his career. Like they've really tried to give him the rock and let him do some stuff. And I'm not sure he's that type of guy yet. Russillo, let's talk about Kyle Lowry, not traded. My guess, we theorized this when we saw the Gary Trent trade. It was kind of a sneaky lateral move by them where it's like Norman Powell, but you're getting back Gary Trent, who's this young swing who honestly makes them better in a couple of different ways, especially defensively.

And now they keep Lowry. Well, I look, I just think Powell is a better creator in isolation. I don't know what the numbers are. Oh, no question. I'm saying Trent's a better defensive player, though. Yeah, but I mean, this is about, I think we kind of get caught up like, oh, hey, this team traded a guy. So that means they can't trade for anybody else that they're keeping.

You know, we'll just think that they have to like hit the reset button and open up 12 roster spots. That's not really the case. I mean, they have control of Trent. They knew they were going to lose Powell in free agency.

So they go ahead and do something like that. But I think the Hill trade to Philadelphia hurt it for Lowry and matching the 30 million that we've been over already. It is just a weird spin

on what felt like weeks and weeks of lead up of people expecting that they would just try to find a way to recover the asset. Lowry said, you know, even if I leave, I'll retire a Raptor, which was weird. And then last night he was emotional and he was hugging everybody. And then he kind of like went to the camera and gave him the shout out. So either he thought he was out or, you know, this whole thing is really strange. But then when you look at Philly getting Hill and Miami getting Oladipo and the Lakers part of it, us never quite understanding

how all the pieces were going to work to try to match that $30 million, man. I mean, obviously it became more challenging for contenders that can't just start moving $25 million worth of contracts. Yeah. I wonder if the Celtics trade exception was $30.3 million, would they have been in on this? And give up what, though? Because, I mean, if they were

asking for Tyler Hero, there's no Tyler Hero on the Celtics roster. What's that piece? Is it a first? Carson Edwards? No. Tremont Waters? Neesmith? No. Hey, Kev, it seems like... Wait a minute. Were we getting a sneaky Carson Edwards isn't that bad from KOC just now? No, we weren't. Oh, okay. All right. I thought I heard something. I had the trade machine locked up and ready to go for the entire first month of the season

with Semi Ojale and Carson Edwards from Malik Monk, which is MJ's predilection toward guys who lit it up in college on the big stage, how he's kind of like that over the years. So just send some Carson Edwards tapes to MJ and kind of talk him into stealing Malik Monk. Speaking of the Celtics, Daniel Tice has been traded to Chicago.

Mo Wagner going to the Celtics, Daniel Tice has been traded to Chicago. Moe Wagner going to the Celtics. Moe Wagner. Wagner. That's going to be a good one. Wagner. We're going to bring Tommy Heinsohn back from the dead to say, Moe Wagner.

There's going to be some Wagner first. Yeah. No, it's not Wagner. It's Wagner. So they trade Daniel Tice. The smart reason that this trade happens is they got under the luxury tax, which buys them a whole bunch of things over the next couple of years. The cynical thing for me would be Danny and Zarin and the rest of them, Wick and all those guys just being like, Stevens keeps diagramming these plays for Tice at the end of games. We just have to trade Tice. It's the only way to stop Tice from deciding our destiny at the end of these games. He was playing a lot of minutes, and he was a guy that I think was at least intrigued the smart teams.

I knew a couple of smart teams who was like, Tice, guy does some stuff. Now you're putting him on the Bulls with Vucevic, kind of like that trade for the Bulls. Tice is definitely a rotation guy in the playoffs. You know what I'm hearing? The Celtics are in on Andre Drummond. Oh! So they had to create the roster spot for him?

We'll see. Just got a text from a source I trust about that. Sounds like the Celtics are in on Drummond. So now we have the Knicks, Lakers, you know, now Celtics in there. Can they use their trade exception to make Drummond an offer? Or is that, they can't, right?

So it would have to be whatever. Got it. I've heard the Lakers are also in and LaMarcus Aldridge. You know, Miami also likes Aldridge too. So it seems like the Lakers could be pivoting from Drummond to Aldridge. Playing musical chairs here with some of these buyouts. Let's do Celtics and then we'll do Lakers.

So Drummond on the Celtics. What's your instant reaction, Rossello? Mine is my dad going, I can't believe you can't make free throws. Why did we get this guy? You can't foul him in the last five minutes of the game. He's going to miss both of them. Yeah. I don't know, man. I'm just not a drumming guy. I know the rebounding numbers are absolutely insane, but no one seems to be thrilled when they have them. So that's one of the clues that I look at here. He had no problem not playing

the entire time, which will lead me into a mini rant here. When you talk to some teams, you're like, so what's the deal now? We're just doing this buyout thing where if a guy who's good, I'm supposed to destroy his own trade value by letting him not play. And then just waiting for the buyout market, whether it was Blake Griffin, LaMarcus or Andre Drummond, which is really weird because the Draymond rant was him trying to point out some double standard. That's like, Hey, when a player asks for a trade, everybody gets mad at him, but then the team can shut the guy down. Well, here's, here's the breaking news.

You don't think the players were totally fine with this. Drummond was fine with it. LaMarcus is clearly fine with it. Blake was fine with it. Not running out there with the pistons for weeks. So the players, we're going to still pay. You get to just stay home.

So, so Draymond's point didn't make any sense. Like I understood what he was trying to do and point out some double standard, but it's not a double standard because if the player was not okay with being sat out prior to the buyout part, then we would hear from players all the time complaining. I can't believe I can't show up to work when this year, especially guys are like, all right, no problem. I'm still getting paid.

I'm fine. But other GMs are wondering, is this now the norm? Is this what happens now? If I have a guy who, you know, isn't a fit for what I'm doing, but I can't just play them backup minutes, I'm supposed to just let them sit and therefore sabotage his own trade value. Cause everybody's just waiting for what everyone assumes is a buyout. And there are three guys there that weren't traded. They were all going to be bought out. I've always been amazed by, cause I've asked a lot of people about this

and we've all heard the same stuff, right? It's good to do with the agents. It's good to do right by the agents. You're just trying to create goodwill. It's like, well, the fuck do I care? So many guys say it though. You're right. But Andre German's paying what?

He's making $28.5 million a year. We don't have to create goodwill with him. It's like, Andre, you're going to be a free agent. You're not going to play for us, but we still want you on the bench. We still, you might play 10, 15 minutes a game. And if you were smart, you'd play hard when you're out there and we're going to try to trade you. We think it hurts your trade value if you just go away. So we're not going to do that. But guess what? You're not going to play. You're not in a long-term thing. Like it a fucking business. This is why he's getting guaranteed money, to be able to do stuff like that.

I just don't understand why this is how he played it. LaMarcus Aldridge was another one. How did that help the Spurs trading LaMarcus Aldridge to send him home for three weeks? Well, guess what? Now they have to buy him out. So is that a good plan? Doesn't make sense.

I don't think there was ever a deal for them to really make. Same with Cleveland and Andre Drummond. There's no deal out there when the salary is that significant where it's just like, all right, just send him home until the deadline passes, and then we'll figure things out with a buyout. KOC, if you were the Spurs, would you have sent clips from 2016 of Aldridge

to the different teams or try to rig synergy so that then when they looked up the Aldridge clips, they were just getting stuff from five years ago not realizing it. They only filter that way. Yeah, 16, 15, 16.

The last thing you want to do is show them clips of his defense this season. That's the last thing you would want to do. He's been awful on that. He fell off a cliff. Well, think about it.

He was in the 2006 draft and he's 6'11". What are the odds he was going to be awesome at age 35? Listen, I feel the same way about him as I do with Blake Griffin, where it sounds awesome on paper, but are you actually going to help me in the playoffs at this stage of your career? I would argue with Aldridge, probably not.

Aldridge could add a little bit of offense. You don't want him out there at the end of games necessarily if it's against a matchup where he could get exposed on defense but i still think aldridge can offer something for your team you know give you a little bit of an offensive punch off the bench with drummond i'm not sure what what he adds you know like people talk about well remove the post ups from his diet and have him run pick and roll yeah but you have to he's he's never been an efficient pick and roll you know roll guy never you also career for a big like that you got to give him a few touches to keep him engaged throughout the entire game especially for drumming so if you decide okay we're never

going to post them because those aren't efficient um all right well you know what kind of effort are you it's kind of the old dwight howard thing where you still have to let these guys touch the ball sometimes to keep him engaged i remember remember Larry Brown talking about Ben Wallace saying, we want to get him a couple more shots. I was like, what are you talking about? And Larry Brown understood, you know, being out there in a game, it's not fun for 30 plus minutes of all you're doing is screening, switching and rebounding for everybody else.

And you're ever touching the basketball. The only thing on the Celtics part of this is the Tice Wagner piece. I don't know who Wagner is. I mean, he even had his fourth year declined. He doesn't shoot it all that well. Yeah, I in college right i kind of like he's a hustle guy i just think like if that's your 11th man he's gonna come in and run around which is right but what else are you looking for he's worse than tice you can give out all the tommy points you want he's worse than tice for a team that's still trying to figure it out this year that's been really

disappointing and tice i get is gone so they didn't feel like they were going to be able to resign him but he's a worse player for a team that's still but i think like okay cool does that mean they're always going to close with robert williams now to take the tice part away from stevens but then if you're adding drummond i like i want to see more robert williams i want to see him be able to stay out there for longer stretches and close every game uh because even with his defensive miscues, I don't know there's a better guy catching the ball on the lob in the league right now than Williams and his passing

and the way he runs the court. And more often than not, if he's out there more minutes, the other bigs trying to keep up with him the entire time. So I don't know. No to Drummond. And we all have to admit,

Wagner makes the Celtics worse compared to Tice. If you had somebody, like if KFC was on a desert Island for the last four years and came back and hadn't seen any basketball and you just showed him clips this year of Robert Williams, Deandre eight. And, um, and who's, who's the other center though? Oh, Lasman and you were like, which, which one of these guys was the first overall pick in the draft? You would say Robert Williams, just from the clips. You'd be like,

oh, it was definitely this guy, right? This guy's amazing. He has moments where you're like, oh my God, are you like the best athlete at this position in the league? Um, before I have an orgasm about this, we're gonna take a break and come back. There's been some new news. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste.

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So why not grab some Miller Lights today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. I have one more drumming point in a second, but the news of this New Orleans trade, I didn't realize Melly was in the trade. Dallas got Melly and Redick. Melly's one of my guys.

I like Melly. Am I wrong to think Melly is like a rotation guy for Dallas? I never understood why New Orleans didn't play him. It seemed like, Rosillo, I know you care about this. New Orleans would be down 16 and Stan Van Gundy would be like, all right, fine, I'll fucking play Melly.

And then Melly would come in and they would immediately go on like a 15-2 run. I think Melly will help Dallas. I think Dallas got two people that will actually help them. And the reason I think it's important is because the way Luka's playing right now, you just have to take them seriously in a playoff series. I don't know if they can win four straight,

but I know I don't want to play that team in a playoff series with the way Luka looks right now. I think Stance tried everything this year, all right? So there were times earlier in the year where they go, okay, maybe we get Adams off the core and let Zion cook here a little bit more. And now, you know, Mellie was part of that,

where they'd be down, hey, let's space it, five out, let Zion initiate, and it would seem to work. Because Mellie also, I mean, I know the shooting numbers are terrible this year from him, but I don't think by any stretch this is how bad he is. And I don't even feel like he by any stretch this is how bad he is and i don't even i don't feel like he was playing a ton lately at all uh so shooting feels like at the trade deadline just like anybody that's a baseball fan where everyone every single fan base is like

if we could just add another arm to the bullpen like everybody just wants an arm because there just aren't enough like a lefty yeah right one of the reasons he wasn't playing is he plays the exact same position as the two best guys on the team. Yeah. So there was just, that was it. He just, that's why his stuff was so shoddy. He feels like Maxi Kleba insurance. I'm not so sure he'll be closing many games,

but if Kleba's out for any reason at all, you can put Melly in there. Kleba's the better defender, right? Oh, yeah. Much better. Much better. I have a German point that I forgot to make

when we were talking about him. If the Celtics got him, you would say positive six fouls against Embiid. Negative. Embiid owns Drummond in a way that I would say there's no sort of

player versus player relationship right now. Like it. Embiid sees him and he's like, cool, I'm going to score 42 points and have 28 rebounds today. So if that was one of the reasons they got him,

I hope they at least, or if they're trying to get him, I hope they would at least look at the Embiid-Drummond footage, Kev. Yeah, definitely there. I mean, if they end up with, let's just say Drummond and Evan Fournier today, how do you feel about that, Bill?

Are you happy with the end results? If that's the case? If it's just Fournier today? How do you feel about that, Bill? Are you happy with the end results? If that's the case? If it's just Fournier and Mo Wagner? Or Fournier, Wagner, and Drummond. Yeah, don't leave out Wagner. Yeah. I'll just say, to be fair, Rosillo, and I'm going to call you out,

but Tice frustrated you because he was like the Daniel LaRusso of the NBA. He would just get kicked in the face twice a game. Less of a shithead, though. He'd be elbowed. No, less of a shithead. Not as terrible of a person as Daniel LaRusso, but just over and over again was getting elbowed in the face,

knocked down. He never got a call. I don't think I've ever, and Chicago fans, you'll notice this now that he's on your team. I don't think the Celtics have ever had a player who the referees respected less than Tice. He never got the benefit

of the doubt ever for four years. So I'm kind of glad that's out of my life. And then the Drummond thing, you know, there will be an alley-oop here. There will be

an offensive rebound sequence over here if they end up getting him where, you know, it'll, I think this team needed a change.

That's to me is like at least a reasonable change i'm i'm excited for bulls fans to learn about that part of tice uh because it's incredibly frustrating and i think the league's trying to clean up that that screen that can be legal at times on a box out when your teammates drive into the hoop but tice just called for it more than any player that i've ever seen when more often than not, people get away with it. And the league seems like they're trying to clean that one up a little bit instead of cleaning up offensive players being able

to Heisman their way to the hoop. And then if they run into you, then it's still a foul on you, even though they're allowed to put their arm out all the way. I'm with, look, we've been over the Tice part of it before where you just wanted to see a little bit more edge out of him. The thing is, is he's a unique big guy that does add value to what you're doing out there.

Is he perfect? No. On a really good team, would he be an unbelievable backup? Yeah. And so now I think with the Vooch part of it and still having Williams and Thaddeus Young who's been good at times with a small lineup because Chicago's forced to based on personnel, Tice is a nice rotation piece in all of that.

You're going to like Tice more than you're not. Yeah, you'll like Tice. He can make threes. He's athletic. He's a great teammate. Everybody likes him. Great teammate. But I think for this to make sense,

by the way, on Twitter, it's saying now that Jeff Teague and Javante Green are all headed out too. So maybe there's more than one buyout guy in the works here. Um, Hey, can we, can we talk about Houston?

What they got for Oladipo, which was basically Olenek, um, Avery Bradley, and then a pick swap, which I can't imagine why they would ever want to swap picks with Miami in 2022. They basically got nothing.

Um, wouldn't you rather have Karis LeVert? I felt that way when the trade happened. they would ever want to swap picks with Miami in 2022. They basically got nothing. Wouldn't you rather have Karis LeVert? I felt that way when the trade happened. I didn't know why they were so eager to spin Karis LeVert and heard different theories about it, about they didn't want the guaranteed money. They really liked the old Depot possibilities, but I just think that was mangled. I think this Raphael Stone,

which the media does this thing where they have to name the GMs at all times but I just think that was mangled. I think this Raphael Stone, which we, the media does this thing where they have to name the GMs at all times. And they have to talk about how smart it was. And GM Raphael Stone, like, Hey, GM Raphael Stone, you fucked that one up.

You should have kept Levert. I'd rather have Levert than what you got for old Depot. So way to go. No doubt about that. They gave up a 26 year old guard wing player who, who's good. Who's good. He's wing player who who's good who's good he's already who has a good contract better yeah i thought that was a mistake initially too i understood it from like a upside perspective in terms of you could flip oladipo but the fact is

is that like i said earlier i didn't love what i saw from indiana despite a handful of flashes earlier in the season lavert to me was the better bet bet for Houston when you were looking forward. You're thinking about the future, and Levert's the guy that you could build with. Not so much Oladipo. So Jeff Teague was in the Magic trade for Fournier. Now I don't like it. And he will

I guess just be waved. Javante Green is in, I think, the Bulls trade. And then now they have, the Celtics have the flexibility for buyout guys. Whether they'll get those buyout guys, we'll see. They're so far down

the list, though, I would think. I mean, they can be in on guys, but I don't know. When you're competing with the Lakers, the Clippers, the Nets, the Sixers for buyout guys. Agree. I'm not saying they're not going to get anyone. It's just I can't imagine they're at the top of anyone's list.

My guess is they must have some inside intel that they have the inside track on somebody because I don't feel like you do this stuff unless you feel like it's going to pay off. Otherwise, you keep Tice. Yeah. No, that's a fair point. So maybe they know on one of the guys but

i mean if we know anything about boston we know that it's not exactly a destination here and i mean other than tice the other guys it doesn't matter i mean teague i started wondering if they they signed cliff teague and jeff was still somewhere else in the league i know teague played better the last week um and jim michael green i mean athlete, athlete can't play. So, you know, these other pieces to open up roster spots, it doesn't matter. The Tice one does because whatever you thought of him,

he was at least somebody that brought something to the table. They traded Teague, I think, so Stevens could stop playing him. That seems like another one. We're like, fucking Brad. He just likes him for they knew him in Indiana.

He won't stop playing him. We've just got to get him off the team. Another big trade. Brad Wanamaker. Brad Wanamaker has been dealt to the Charlotte Hornets. Your dad's favorite player. He's your dad's favorite? No, he's my least favorite.

But then Teague quickly replaced. Teague had my dad going, I wish Wanamaker was back. I know. I think my dad agreed. So anyway, Wanamaker for a little Lonzo stuff. Wanamaker, look, frustrating as hell, but, you know, as a lamello replacement, I'm just going to say it's a step down. Lonzo stays with the Pelicans. What does this mean, KFC?

They're going to enter the offseason and maybe keep him or sign and trade. They retain the flexibility still to trade him or sign and trade. They retain the flexibility still to trade him or sign and trade him. So for New Orleans, it makes a lot of sense to me when the market could be greater for him during the offseason than it is right now. I think for them, they're losing with this core right now, so

it might not make sense on paper to give Lonzo 20 plus million dollars. But I do think if you're Griffin in that Pelicans front office, you do get to give this more time and see how this develops. Because Lonzo, he's 23 years old and he's gotten way better

the last two years. He's shooting better off the dribble this year than he ever has before. Giving him more time, there could still be way more to his game than what we've seen already that could help add even more to that half court offense.

And by the way, he's been their best defensive player all season long, not saying a lot, but he's been their best and their most consistent. To me, that says something as, as him, maybe being a guy that you want to keep here and build that culture,

you know, with him as part of it. I think he's like the, a perfect fit with Zion. Yeah. Quote unquote point guard who doesn't really need the ball and who keeps it moving and is a good passer and is just an inclusive player,

which I think they need from that spot. I thought one of the dumbest rumors of the last couple days was Lonzo for marketing. Why the fuck would New Orleans want marketing? He plays the same position as Zion and Ingram. They wanted more anyway. I know, but it's just an absurd rumor. If anything,

you could argue New Orleans just needed to get rid of some guys so they would have nine happy guys who were playing instead of 12 guys who all think they should be playing. So they chopped that one down. But yeah, I thought the Lonzo piece, I never understood why they would trade him. And then I never understood what

are they getting back that's going to help them more than the idea of Lonzo on paper, you know? Okay. But don't you guys think, and look, Lonzo's usage, which surprised me is actually up this year, but the assists are down,

which makes sense. But I would have thought those things correlated a bit on some of those other numbers. His shooting is funny because it was disastrous and then it was good. And then remember, he came back to the bubble. He looked like the worst player at the bubble that was playing real minutes. So then you thought, okay,

is the good shooting a fluke here? And now he's shooting it really well again. And now, as you point out, you need somebody who's going to be okay playing off the ball. You can't have a Chris Paul dominant ball handler with somebody like Zion because I think the great thing about New Orleans this season is that they've learned to unlock Zion. You got to let him get a little bit ahead of steam and have the ball earlier. And they're doing it all the time. I mean, they're not just doing it to close out possessions. You'll see early, 20 million to have him or like a lot of teams will

do is say all right let's go 18 20 million a year just to keep the asset and we'll just trade him later i mean that's what a lot of the guys just do is okay we hate this contract this isn't that big of a deal but let's just keep them and then maybe we'll just trade them down the road it'll be somebody else's problem that's basically what sac did with Buddy Heald, right? We'll just sign him. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Down the road. KFC, before you go,

a couple of buyout guys. We should buy out possibility guys. Besides Andre Drummond and Austin Rivers? Yeah. Probably not a lot out there right now. LaMarcus Aldridge. I mean, is there anybody else really that's been mentioned?

I'm going to throw a couple at you. Okay. Kelly Olenek. Keep him around if you're Houston. Why? Rodney Hood. Hood's a good one.

Yeah. John Wall. No. You don't do the Blake buyout move with him? Just try to save like 15 million on your money and just have a complete reboot? I don't know if John buyout move with them? Just try to save like $15 million on your money

and just have a complete reboot? I don't know if John Wall would want to do that. Okay. Anybody else? Anyone on the shit teams like Cleveland, Minnesota? Nobody that comes to mind really, no. I think Hood, like Ryan said, is one. But not a lot up there still did we spend enough time

talking about bijelica bb elisa did we spend enough time talking about i actually like no but i think forever there's a sacramento topic there that you know you and i had talked about where front offices were telling me they were closed for business that it was about this push and that vivek was like don, don't feel like you have to trade any of these guys. I mean, we still have a chance to play in game. We're heading in the right direction. Um, and they felt like Barnes having them under contract again for another year. They're like, look, we're good. Let's let's, we're not going to find somebody better than Barnes to pick. So they, the, the Intel on them and look, we're surprised all the time, but the

Intel on them was them was pretty steady. So I think that's the Sacramento topic. The play-in in the shortened season messed up a lot of teams, I think. Sacramento should have probably traded Barnes or Heald, I think. Because they're still going to go into next season with the same issue that they had this season, which is you kind of want to build around Hal Burton and Fox and either Barnes or Hield, but not both. I saw that Chris Mannix report the other day

saying that Sacramento wants to keep Barnes and make a playoff push next season. I just don't see the path for Sacramento next year. It's going to be the same team, pretty much, still competing for a playing spot. They should have traded Barnes. Yeah, and I wonder, you think like,

it would have been somewhere between the Gordon trade and the Vucevic trade right they're not getting close to not getting a lot two top four Bulls picks

but I think they could have gotten two first rounders you think two first for Barnes I just don't think they would have been premium first rounders

like what Orlando got yeah they just would have been like from whoever but alright KOC, you're doing the mismatch tonight? Doing the mismatch.

Yes. Awesome. Thanks for coming on. This ends part three. We are going to do a part four of the mega trade deadline pod. So be ready for that one. It is now 1245 PT.

We'll start the next one around maybe like five, 10 minutes from now. Thanks for listening. Don't forget about the other two parts that we put up earlier. KFC, thanks for coming on. Thank you. ...... I feel it's within On the wayside I'm a person never lost And I don't have to be