The Bill Simmons Podcast - NBA Trade Value, Foles Saves Philly, and Farewell Josh Gordon With Joe House and Bill's Dad | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 458)

Episode Date: December 21, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons talks with a slightly tipsy Joe House about his brand-new NBA trade values piece on TheRinger.com and NFL million-dollar bets before Bill calls up his dad to talk about the end of Josh Gordon's NFL season, Patriots problems, a Boston Celtics check-in, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tonight's very special episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by a zip recruiter. You know, it's not smart flying in December. I just flew back from New York. I heard a lot of coughing. I just feel like bronchitis is coming my way. A lot of coughing and dogs. Why are dogs on my airplane? Get the hell out of here with your dogs. I have three dogs. I love dogs. Don't fly with your dogs. Keep your dogs home. Keep them with an uncle. You know what else isn't smart? Job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes. Luckily, there's a smart way at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. They find people the right skills for your job. They actively invite

them to apply. My listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at zipcruiter.com slash BS, the smartest way to hire. We're also brought to you by State Farm. They're here to help trades go right. And speaking of trades, my trade value guide on theringer.com. It's up. My fingers still work. It's a miracle. I don't know how many thousand words it was, but yeah, my fingers still work.

It's amazing. Go check out the trade value guide presented by State Farm. Some really good stuff in there. We're going to talk to Joe House all about it, about that list. And we're going to do some picks with him as well. That is coming up a little bit. If you have State Farm insurance, like many people, I wouldn't trade my State Farm agent for anybody. So there you go. Thank you to State Farm. And then we're brought to you by TheRinger.com, the world's best website. We had an awesome week, whole bunch of great stuff. Our year-end Best of 2018 stuff was really great. We had a lot of good pieces this week. Really, really good week for the site. If you like reading stuff, I would go there. I'd also check out all of our podcasts on the Ringer Podcast

Network as well. And if you like the rewatchables, we have another one coming. Here's the schedule for next week. Sunday night, me and Sal. Tuesday. Is Tuesday Christmas, Kyle? Yeah.

Maybe Tuesday night, we'll run the Sports Reporters. Me and Brian Curtis and Jason Gay, we did an end of the year thing. We already taped it. It happened. That is running on Tuesday. And then we're going to have something else end of the week. But then the Rewatchables is coming too.

And I think we're going to drop that Christmas Eve. It's going to be Tombstone. Oh, yeah. Tombstone. Flawed, awesome Rewatchable movie. And then that's it. And then we're coming back next year with the rewatchables with a whole schedule. I was figuring out on the airplane to New York, man, there's some doozies coming this year. That's all I'm going to say. Some heavy hitters, heavy, heavy hitters. I look forward to that. Coming up, we're going to talk to House. We're also going to call my dad and we're going to talk about the Patriots

and the very sad Josh Gordon story as well as what the hell happened to our Patriots season that is all coming up but first our friends from Pearl Jam All right, we are doing some Friday rolling, even though it's Thursday afternoon, West Coast time. My dad's coming up a little bit later to talk about the Josh Gordon thing and the Patriots and what's going on with the Celtics and all that stuff. Right now, on the line, the host of House of Carbs and the Shaq House, Joe House.

How are you? I'm great. It's a Christmas miracle. I was looking at the Twitter feed last night. All of a sudden, out of like a small flash of blue light, or maybe it was red and white with Rudolph leading the way. There was a link to a column that you wrote. Allegedly, you wrote a column. I know.

I know. I might have outsourced it to people in India who might have written it for me. Yeah, it was a trade value column. It went up on the site yesterday. When I was at ESPN, I think the last like five or six years, we used to do a podcast before I did the trade value column. But this one, now we're changing the format a little bit. I put out the list, wrote a big intro for it, did the honorable mention.

But we had been emailing a lot back and forth about who might be on it. You had not seen the final list though, because we hadn't talked about it in a couple of weeks. And I got aggressive with some of the younger guys. What was the biggest mistake that jumped out to you? Is that you got a little aggressive? I did. The number one, and I meant to tweet this out out today but i went to uh it's the holiday season bill simmons as you know and and uh yes so i got caught up in one of those holiday lunches where you go and you sit down and somebody starts ordering wine yeah and i had a bloody mary and

it's 12 noon and then i asked for a shot to go along with my bloody mary and the next thing you know it's five o'clock in the afternoon. So I didn't get a chance to tweet this, but it looked to me like there might have been a typo. Like there was one that just jumped off the page. De'Aaron Fox was sitting at number 15. Yeah. That's a one and a five that's inside the top 20. That's just five spots away from the top

10. Are you sure that's not a typo? First of all, I love that you're half in the bag for this podcast. This is great. We should do all of these this way. You could be like the new Howard Cosell. I mean, we're going to get real barbershop here. I just want to warn you right now. I like this. I think this should be the new house. You should go Don Draper on the pod. Have a cocktail or two right before you do it. So, here's the funny thing about Darren Fox. You're going to laugh. I thought it was the biggest mistake

as well. I don't think he was high enough. Oh, yeah! I wish I'd put him higher! Hey, look, I invested in Swipe by the Fox last year. I his number in fact i think i was on a podcast with you and the cousin sal we were looking at the 2017 2018 basketball season we're looking at futures yeah and he was on there rookie of the year odds i loved his rookie of the year odds he

was like 20 to 1 or 25 to 1 yeah and i went ahead and put a little dabble on that one yes we loved him because in that season uh leading up you know his uh freshman season they had kentucky had two huge games nationally televised games and he went out in wreck dues he had feet dropped 40 i can't remember who he went up against and i'm not gonna look it up because again i had the extra shot with the Bloody Mary earlier today. But, look, he was very impressive under the brightest of lights, and I was like, this dude can play. 20-1 was good odds for him, and then he kind of –

Nah, it was the team. He had a Sacramento Kings kind of season, is the way I'll put it. There was one other reason we liked him. We liked him and Malik Monk because remember that video of them sobbing in the locker room after the game? I was like, I like these guys. These guys really, this is not a situation like, oh, my time's done in Kentucky. Time to get ready for the draft. These guys were like devastated.

And so the biggest reason, and we'll go through the list in a second, but the biggest reason I like him and that I put him 15. First of all, I've been so impressed by how he's run that team this year. Like he's averaging like 18 and seven, but the way, not just that he's running the offense, but like the leadership and like the spirit that he plays with, it's really infectious. And you think the kid's 20 and he's already running that team. They have a winning record. They're in the West. Now they've had a little bit of an easy schedule that's about to come around on them. But I look at like the physical gifts. He said yesterday before the OKC game, he's the fastest guy in the league. I'm not positive, but he might be. I love that he's a lefty. He's got little shots

already. He's got like a little stop and pop floater right in front of the foul line. He can make threes. He's not a great three point shooter yet, but he's fine. He's a very good passer and plays with pace. But for me, it's the personality. I just think him and Buddy, who I put in the top 42, those guys play really hard. And with that infectious spirit. And I don't think this is a fluke, this Kings thing. I think they're going to come down. They have a really tough schedule. But I really think you could build around those guys as a backcourt.

It reminds me of the, remember that year the Hornacek KJ backcourt took off in Phoenix 30 years ago? And I was like, this is sure this is what's gonna this is they're gonna make the playoffs and win playoff series just built around two guards like I feel like they might be able to do that at some point it won't be this year I agree with every single thing you just said uh and it's a it's a lovely little story I'm very happy for the good people of Sacramento. They've waited long enough. They've been in the doldrums long enough. They've been through a lot of clowny moments,

a lot of circus moments in the franchise over the last 15 years. So I'm happy for them to realize a little bit of value with De'Aaron Fox and to have a group of guys that are young and hungry and willing to play hard. You know this. You and I were so happy for Buddy. We love Buddy.

We were so Buddy, Buddy, Buddy all up in our face. I know. It was embarrassing. His senior season was wonderful. So this is a great moment. But the problem is, bro, you have this mother effer at 15. You have him ahead of Carl Anthony Towns. You have him ahead of the Z 15. All right, so let's talk it through. You have him ahead of Carl Anthony Towns.

You have him ahead of the Zinger. You have him ahead of Devin Booker. Yeah, Devin Booker every day and twice on Sunday. Here's the thing. And I tried to- You have him ahead of the triple-double darling, Russell Westbrook. Yeah, so let me explain. And this is why I wrote that big intro.

I think where the league is headed. And I talked to some people in the league about this because I wanted to make sure my instincts were right about this. These cheap rookie salaries, if you can get somebody who is either an all-star or borderline all-star right now for like somewhere between five and seven million a year, that's the number one thing people want. And it sounds crazy to think, oh, if OKC called up the Kings and offered Russell Westbrook for De'Aaron Fox,

the Kings would do that in a heartbeat. I'm telling you, they wouldn't. They'd rather have Fox. You have him under team control now for three more years and you think like, his arrow's going up, Westbrook's arrows going down. To me, that's a no brainer. I had a little more trouble with Fox versus Mitchell. I just like Fox more as a player.

I think it's his upside's higher. The Mitchell hero ball thing is becoming a problem for this year. You've seen some Utah games. I don't, I don't, there's a little kind of Steve Francis, Stefan Marbury, everybody clear out. I'm just going to take bad shots and going with him this year that I'm not a huge fan of. Yeah. Let's do the quick tangent on, on D Mitchell and Utah. And they're under performance so far.

I was very happy to see our boy Danny Devine come out today with a little glimmer of hope because you know I was very bullish I know on the Utah Jazz that was a lot you had them as a lot I love them to get to 50 now look they went on a great run post Christmas last year and now I need them to go on that same post run at the time that we had our over under podcast you raise raise a couple caution flags, a cautionary note around D Mitchell and the source of your concern was like, we saw a lot of D Mitchell this summer. Brother was doing some fashion shoots and he was rubbing some shoulders with some celebrities and he was just showing up a little bit too much. He just was a little too available.

We didn't see him in the gym enough. We didn't see any of those workout videos that we like to see. We saw designer shoes. We saw some lovely young ladies, but we didn't see those workouts videos we like to see. Well, maybe he was doing that. It just felt like, what I didn't like is it felt like a little victory lappish. And's like you haven't done anything yet congratulations you had a good rookie season you had a good rookie season and you beat OKC who was a mess and then you got

killed in the next round like go back go back all the stuff's coming later that worried me and it worries me that he's playing like the same way he's taking the same kind kind of shots that Dame Lillard would take. Dame Lillard's 28 or 29. He's been in a bunch of big games at this point.

I think Mitchell's got to figure out, how do I make everybody else around me a little bit better? And I think that's one of the—we're going to get to the list right now. That's one of the reasons I love— By the way, I'm going to see Donchitz tonight, but Donchitz can be. Oh, tonight. Yeah. He's playing the Clips.

He can be really good in a basketball game and not really score. You know, he can go like three for nine. You're talking about Luka. Yeah. He can go like three for nine and still affect the game. Mitchell really kind of has to score to affect the game right now. And that going back to Fox, I think Fox can affect the game even if he's not scoring. I think his speed, his athleticism.

I watched, I watched even Sauer making fun of me. I watched the entire OKC Sacramento game on the plane today. And it was a replay of it. That must've been a hell of a boring play. Well, I really wanted to watch Sacramento because I had seen them leak past bits and pieces, but I hadn't really studied what was going on with them.

Fox plays so hard. He had this play. They're down 20. Guy's opening the corner. Fox comes off the foul line to come chase the three and block the three. It was not only a great athlete play, but just a crazy, crazy

hustle play. It's the kind of play, if you're doing that, you're going to be a star. If you're trying that hard on these random moments in this game that you're losing anyway, there's another play. Buddy Heald made a three and they're down 15 and then sprinted back to make sure he got back on defense. I don't know how much of it's the coaching and how much of it is the DNA of those guys, but I really like what they have. But let's go through the list. So I had the top four, pretty easy to predict.

Giannis, one. Davis, two. Curry, three. LeBron, four. Did you have any issue with Curry over LeBron? No, I'm not going to quibble with any of it. This is just splitting hairs. forward did you have any issue with curry over lebron no i'm not going to quibble with any of it this is just splitting hairs the only thing that i'll observe as it relates to lebron is and this

is what you you know this my interests always go in this direction the season he's having and the remarkable resurrection of la on the NBA prominence scale. Do we do a little touch for LeBron as the MVP this year? Do we do, is it worth a C note? I did look at that. I still like the, for some reason, I thought the KD at 16-1 jumped out of me. Here's the thing.

I actually watched the LeBron versus Brooklyn game was on the flight. I watched that one live when I flew to New York on Tuesday night. You caught all the great games. Yeah, it was really classic. Brooklyn's pretty fun. Brooklyn's finally figured out how to... If you want to know what it looks like for a team to play hard, watch Brooklyn.

If you want to watch a team that is composed of dogs who want to dog it, watch Washington. Yeah, that's the one for you. There's a nice comparison for you. Well, I was shocked by LeBron's body language in that game. I'm not the only person who noticed it. He seemed really frustrated by some of his teammates.

And this brings me to your question about the MVP. It feels like there's a trade coming with them. I don't think he likes playing with KCP. And in general, I think he's just a little frustrated by the young guys. The only guy he's really talked up over and over again is Lonzo. And Lonzo was good in that game. I love Lonzo. I actually wish I had put him higher on this list. He was really good in that game on both ends. And I still think he could be the third best guy on a LeBron title team there, but they need the second guy.

Hold on. Let me ask you this. Do you think that there's a little bit of a sneaky like a fox kind of thing going on with LeBron talking up Lonzo? Because Lonzo is their most eligible trade asset. No, Ingram is. I get it, but I mean, you know. you know the move lonzo the thing is lonzo

fits with lebron the guy who doesn't really fit from what i've seen is ingram and you know who who also could fit with lebron bradley beal no john wall no john stay in washington i can't let him go i'll physically try and restrain him if they try and move that man I'm going to drive to wherever he is located at, I'm going to use the GPS and the Google Maps and the Yahoo Maps

and MapQuest, I'm going to do them all I'm going to pinpoint Bradley Beal I'm going to go there with all kinds of retention material they're going to have to lock me up because I want that man to stay here in Washington. Gosh, should we have House drunk for every podcast? This is great. I love drunk House. This is

awesome. House, you wouldn't trade Bradley Beal for Ingram expirings and Josh Hart? No. No. No. Wouldn't trade Bradley Beal. You could end it there. Would you trade Bradley Beal? No.

Well, here's the thing. You're not trading John Wall. Cause nobody wants that contract. It's impossible. That's funny here. Let's, let's do this quick aside.

Very quick. I'm sorry to take anybody down this Washington. It's not a rabbit hole. It's a rat hole. It's a, it's a rat. No, it's a sinkhole.

It's like those sinkholes in Thailand that open up and swallow the cars up. We, we tried to construct what, what. We tried to construct what's the bottom? What's the worst threesome, worst group of players you could assemble in exchange for John Wall? We tried. The problem is two of them are already on Washington. Jan Hinme and Dwight Howard would have been eligible candidates to trade, but they're already here, so you can't trade them. And Austin Rivers, you already traded.

I'm trying to come up with the worst trade. Hey, we got to talk about that really quickly. Then we'll take a break and we'll hit the list. Your team was involved in a three-team trade where they got the two Brookses mixed up. So the three GMs were Ernie Grunfeld, Chris Wallace, and then whoever the fuck is running phoenix i don't even know but they all would have been three of my top candidates for this to happen to it feels like this was ernie's fault right didn't he wasn't he the one who screwed this up

well it's no so here's the thing this is let's go ahead and call it like it is. You have a snake, you have a dunce, and you have a nobody. Snake, Chris Wallace. Dunce, Ernie Grunfeld. A nobody, the GM, the current GM of the Suns that I can't name off the top of my head right now. James Jones, LeBron's valet who gave him Tyson Chandler. His boy. Can we buy out Tyson Chandler and give him to you for nothing? We'll get nothing out of it.

It'll be great. Clutch James Jones. So I believe that Chris Wallace put it on Ernie. I believe the story that came out that was reported that Phoenix and Memphis were having discussions in advance of involving Washington, and it was unequivocal and not mysterious at all, which Brooks they were talking about. And then something happened over the course of Friday to cause Memphis to get cold feet, and it was easy for Memphis to point the blame

and put the blame right on Grunfeld. And for whatever reason, they decided they didn't want to be part of this arrangement any further. All right, you have to apologize for calling Chris Wallace a snake. I won't do it. He ruined the league. He gave Kobe Bryant two titles that he wasn't entitled to. That's true.

He gave Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers before the rest of the league had an opportunity to participate in any kind of bidding whatsoever. And David Stern let that shit go right on by. That's David Stern's black mark as far as I'm concerned. He has a lot of black marks. Chris Wallace also took Hashim Thabit over James Harden and Stephen Curry, I think.

Was that the draft? Why doesn't he take more shit for that? Because he's a snake. Here are the first seven picks. Blake Griffin, Hashim Thabit. Next pick, James Harden, Tyreek Evans, Ricky Rubio, Johnny Flynn, Stephen Curry went seventh. DeMar DeRozan went ninth.

What the fuck? The league's on drugs every year. God damn it. I had to put that draft out of my head. That was the draft that Ernie Grunfeld traded the five hole for Mike Miller and Randy Foy. He traded it straight up. You traded the five pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foy. That was the whole trade.

I got to go. Hold on. I got to go stick my head in the toilet for a minute. Hold on. Let's take a break. All right. Let's talk about FanDuel. I'm out of my fantasy league.

My team let me down. Thank God I have daily fantasy. You're probably like me. You probably didn't win your league either. You know why we didn't win our league? Because if you're in a 10-team league, you have a 10% chance of winning. If you're in a 12-team league, you have like an 8% chance. Not in daily fantasy.

Every week is a new week. Oh, yeah. You get the excitement of researching and building your team regardless of the outcome. It's never been more fun or easy to play. Like this week, you can decide Dallas is going to run the ball a lot. See, put Zeke Elliott on your team. I'm not going to tell you what to do. I don't want to give away all my tricks.

I've tried other DFS sites before. If you're not a fantasy expert, FanDuel is clearly the place to play when you're ready for a fresh start. If you're just ready to kill a weekend, do a little daily fantasy. Make some teams. You get a $5 bonus when you make your first deposit. Pick a new fantasy team this week. Do it next week. Do whatever you need.

Come play with me at fanduo.com slash BS. New users only. Bonus not available for withdrawal. State and age restrictions apply for full. Eligibility rules and terms and conditions. All right, back to the list. House just stuck his head in the toilet. Sorry about that, House. It's wet. It's cold.

Did you agree after the top four, did you agree with Luke at five? I don't have any issue at all so i i um like two things about this list the two things i like in the in the first place i like that it is a leaving a living breathing organism this is an evolving document with ins and outs i mean we're gonna let the course of the season play out i I love the Ringer innovation. I love the Bill Simmons innovation here with this list. It's 2018. We can go ahead and be a little creative. The website

permits it. Let's do it. I think Luca was like 22 a month ago. Now he's five. Sure. What we've seen from him is a bunch of humongous balls games. How do we've seen from him is a bunch of humongous balls games. Like, how do we put it?

These are Sam Cassell games where he is taking over at the end. You know, Dallas is staring the jaws of defeat. And Luke is like, let me just see. Let's just see for a minute if I can snatch a little V out of this D. Let's snatch a little victory out of the jaws of defeat here. And he's done it a couple of times and it's been a hell of a revelation. Now, I also, the other thing I like about this list in terms of, in addition to the ability to kind of, you know, move it around as the season develops, the emphasis on the young guys is clearly correct, right? It's very heavy with these young guys on these rookie contracts

because that's where the value is. That's how teams now are separating themselves. If you can get some value out of a guy very early, this is why Boston is in the beautiful position that it's in. God damn it, all the assets with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, that kind of Terry Rozier, when you draft well and have these guys on rookie contracts. I like that you think Jalen Brown's an asset.

This is the first time anyone's said that in a month. Well, it's incredible you have him in the top 50. That's a whole other deal. He needs to be out of this top 50. But the point is, all things considered, for a potential trade for somebody like Anthony Davis, yeah, he's an asset. He counts

as an asset. I looked at the Luka thing. Luka's 19. He clearly has what it takes. He has elephantitis of the nuts, as you discussed earlier. Elephantitis? Yeah, he's got, it's not Sam Cassell balls. It's like elephantitis balls.

Whoever had that. And it was their famous person. The biggest balls. Who has the biggest balls? Well, in college, we had that one friend that we can't talk about who would pull his balls out at parties because they were so big. Is he a b**** now? No, he's not.

I'd love to see those nuts now, just to see how big they are, because once you get old... Also, that was 30 years ago, and that was the kind of stuff we did in college. Now they'd freak out if that happened, if somebody had their balls out. We'd go to jail if we looked at his nuts now.

We would go to jail right now. It used to be a party fair. We're like, yo, dude, let's go into this room. We want to see your nuts. No, that's not how it went down. Let me show your nuts. No, that's not how it went down. Let me show you these huge nuts. That's not how it went down.

It was somebody said, did you ever see so-and-so's nuts? And we're like, no. And we were like the colonel in Boogie Nights. We love to see his nuts. Brought us into another room. The nuts came out. We're like, oh. Great set of nuts.

Think about this. In that era, he was happy to show the nuts. Yeah. He didn't have any problem with it. Like, oh, you want to see my giant nuts? Here they are. Well, that's Luka Doncic. Congratulations to him.

Joel Embiid, I put at six. Now, there's a sneaky case that he actually should have been in the top group. You could have made a case he should have been in that untouchable group. The only reason I knocked him down two spots was just because I wouldn't bet my life that he's going to stay healthy. I think there's been very good signs. He was healthy last year. He's been really healthy this year. He's been durable. But it's really only been 100 games, maybe not even that. And I just want more evidence that this is somebody

that's going to be in the league for the next 10 to 12 years. So that was why. I share that concern. I'm with you. I'm rooting with all of my NBA, every fiber in my NBA body for him to stay healthy because I just love watching him play basketball, and I love watching the Sixers with him on the floor. The other thing that I think makes it reasonable to not have him in that tippy-tippy top is sometimes he says stuff that's not great. Yeah, I don't know. Whatever came out last week, even if it was confusing

relating to Jimmy Butler, you don't have to say it. You might think it. Just keep it to yourself, buddy. He's a transparent whatever the millennials, if you're under 25. He's a sharer. It's a sharing generation. He is a sharer. Here are my thoughts.

He does like to share. Here's what I'm doing right now. Here's a picture of me. I'm sad. I want you to know about it. He shares. It's a share. I had Simmons.

I think I had him five or six. The more I watched that team and I watched the two of them, how they interact, and how much the Philly fans love Embiid, I wouldn't be shocked if they traded Simmons like in the next year and a half just because.

Oh my God. It's just a gut feeling. It honestly is the same reason that I think KD is probably going to leave Golden State. Like at some point that the city and the team belongs to one guy in the team

or the city and the fans belong to one guy in the team. And Philly is in bead city i felt it when i went to that playoff game there they fucking love and bead they're frustrated by simmons true it's a i wouldn't put ben simmons and kd's situation they're they're they're planets apart that's a different that's pluto to mars the difference in in the universe well then no there's situations different. I'm just saying the arc of how it's going to go,

it reminds me of each other. Simmons knows that's not his city. That's Embiid's city. And this sounds very hot takey, I apologize. It's just, I think the one thing we've learned this decade is all of these guys want their own team. And even Durant, who goes to somebody else's team and now two years in doesn't seem like he's happy so well let's i don't know we the jury's still out on the composition and disposition and demeanor and psychological makeup of ben simmons what if

he turns out to be a person whose composition and disposition is more like Paul George? I don't think that's true. Because we're seeing the very, very, very best Paul George right now. That's a reminder of the very, very best Paul George from a handful of years ago. And the thing that we have learned about him is he loves being a second banana. That's not Simmons. He loves being in the position with the pressure off, right? I think Simmons is the opposite.

I think he wants to be the guy. He's dating Kendall Jenner. Here's the thing. He wants to be a celebrity. If what you're saying is true, then we would see his ass in the gym shooting three-pointers properly because that's what an alpha dog does. But maybe he's doing it.

No, no, no. He ain't doing it because he's not taking any threes in games. He's not taking threes when it matters. Here's the other reason. And look, I don't think they're trading him. I'm not saying, please don't do a blog headline where it's like, Simmons thinks Philly's going to trade Simmons. I guess that'd be weird if we were both the headline.

I'm just saying, like, Embiid's a lock. He's going to be on Philly. Doncic is a lock. He is going to be on Dallas. Jokic is a lock. He's going to be on Philly. Doncic is a lock. He is going to be on Dallas. Jokic is a lock. He's going to be on Denver. There's a world in where Simmons isn't on Philly sometime in the next three, four years. And it's partly that whole whose city, whose team is this thing.

I'd like to be on record. I would think, I think that's a dumb world. Well, hold on. The basketball fit of those two guys isn't perfect either. And that's the other thing that is a little elephant in the room. Like if you're going to really have the right team around Embiid, you really want spacers. And like the fact that Simmons can't shoot,

it does make them easier to stop if you're a good team. But that's precisely the point. And the way I would finish the sentence you just authored the basketball fit isn't right for those two dudes i would say yet it ain't right yet but remember how early in their basketball careers those two guys are they haven't played a ton of games together they had the great good fortune to be in the playoffs together. There's nothing like the playoffs to find out what kind of, you know. The NBA playoffs are the real truth serum in terms of what's inside of dudes like Simmons and Embiid. And I thought, you know this.

They were awfully competitive. They gave your boys the Celtics everything they wanted. I love the ceiling of what they have. I mean, in this trade value thing, first of all, I put Simmons eighth. It's not like I don't think he's incredible. I put his ceiling as MVP. I also had him beat ceiling as MVP. Pretty good ceiling.

Yeah. And I don't think, you know, if Dallas was like, we'll give you Doncic versus Simmons, I think Philly would do that. That's why I had Doncic ahead of him. Or at least if they didn't do it, they'd at least have a seven-hour meeting about it, which is part of the point of this trade value thing. The tougher one for me was like,

so I have Embiid sixth and Jokic seventh. And those guys have big salaries. And Donchich is making 6.6 this year, 7.7 next year, eight the year 7.7 next year 8 the year after it's just significant to get him on that contract versus paying Jokic he's going to be making 32.5 million a year

in a couple years so anyway Tatum is 9th wait wait wait hit the brakes how did Jalen Jacoby do it? Keep moving or hit the brakes? Soft move, boss move?

No, no. They have another thing. Hit the brakes. Cultural or regional, soft move or boss move. Hit the brakes or keep moving. All right. So you're hitting the brakes on me. I'm hitting the brakes on you.

This is, I want to be fair about it. Are you going to call me a homer right now? I don't care about whatever your motivations are. Jason Tatum, inside the top 10, he's not in the same class as Embiid or Doncic. It's okay to go ahead and call him in the same vein as Simmons, I guess. But there's no scenario under which I think we're going to see Jason Tatum ever show up on a list that's an MVP list for the National Basketball Association.

I think you're wrong. a list that's an MVP list for the National Basketball Association. I think you're wrong. Based on... I just think he has all of what it takes to score as a forward. Now, is he going to put it together? I don't know, but athletically,

the shots, the hunger to get better, even if you look at, look, I don't think he's going to be as good as Durant. But if you just look at where Durant was when he was age 20 versus Tatum was when he was age 20 and just their ability, the shots that they could already make

and the spots they can get on the floor and do stuff. That's why he's there. Because he has the chance to be- He's a preternatural scorer. He has the chance to be natural his chance to be yeah a 29 to 30 point a game score i think is in the cards for him so that's why he has to be there you can't look at me in the face and tell me that he that that there's a a scenario under which any team that has kawaii leonard on it would consider trading Kawhi Leonard for Jason Tatum without it being a hostage situation.

Yeah, but this is the whole point of the trade value. Because the revolt was DeMar DeRozan, but that was a hostage situation. No, first of all, that's how low Kawhi's trade value was. And Kawhi, the next guys in this list are Durant, James Harden, and Kawhi. Kawhi has limited trade value because he's a free agent. You're trading for somebody.

There's no way in hell that the Celtics would give up Tatum for four months of Kawhi and then cross their fingers and hope he doesn't go to the Clippers or the Lakers. They're not doing that. That's why his trade value is down. But if they had Kawhi for some period of time, they absolutely

positively without hesitation of provocation or if they had Kawhi for some period of time, they absolutely positively, without hesitation, a provocation, a reservation, would say Kawhi. They would trade him for Kevin Durant too if he got five years of Kevin Durant, but he's a free agent. Right. So that's the point of the trade value. Durant locked up for four years

for Jason Tatum. The Celtics do that in five seconds. But look, the Celtics are in the position right this second of having the flexibility to bring in a guy of Kawhi's ilk and sign him to a long-term deal. How do they know Kawhi's going to sign in Boston? And how do we know he's healthy? Remember, it wasn't...

By the way, that trade was... He played a bunch of games. He looked pretty good to me. That trade was not just Kawhi for DeRozan. Danny Green was in there who plays crunch time for Toronto. Purtle's in there who actually was starting to play pretty well for San Antonio. And that was really the best they can do. And I don't...

But that's because nobody knew what was going on with his leg. Nobody knew for sure. We had to see the games out of him before anybody could tell how that trade whether that trade made sense or not. So you're saying Toronto calls the Boston and says we'll give you Kawhi for Jason

Tatum and the Baines contract. Just throw some contracts together and we'll make it work in the trade machine. Let's do it right now you really think the Celtics would do that oh my god are you kidding me do the Celtics want to win the NBA championship

are you kidding me Kawhi Leonard played almost single handedly until that cheater from where is he from Georgia the country Georgia until Zaza the cheater tried to ruin Kawhi's career,

Kawhi was single-handedly going to make that Spurs-Golden State series interesting. The Spurs were going to win game one, and that series was going to be a little bit interesting at least. And then it's all, you know, we have to live in the bad history that devolved since then. Hass, I'm not going to argue with you about this because what I've realized over the last three minutes, you know how when your kids have like a play date with other kids and the other kid is behaving really badly and you don't blame the kid, you blame the parents. That kid was raised wrong. It's the parent's fault. The kid is behaving this way.

That's what you're like now as a trade person, because you've been raised. Name me. No, listen, listen. No, listen. Go ahead. You've been raised. You've been weaned the tutelage of Ernie Grunfeld for the last 16 years. You don't even know what a good trade is anymore. Your GM makes terrible trades.

Your GM would probably trade Jason Tatum for Kawhi Leonard. He did it in 2009. He traded the fifth pick. You could have had Steph Curry. I'm looking at the credentials right now. He traded the fifth pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foy. That's the DNA that you have as a trade expert. You outlined for me a ceiling that's based on Jason Tatum's offensive prowess

I concede it here is the resume for this dude whose name begins with a K and ends with a Leonard all defensive three times first, one time second defensive player of the year 2015-2016

I'm well aware and have you seen the memes, the clips the gifs of him playing defense this year? Is he signing with me? How do I know? Maybe. Maybe so. I'm not trading Jason Tatum for a baby. What are you talking about?

That's crazy. Well, I hope Kawhi says, oh, we lost you. Oh, Kawhi just went to the- Would you do it for Anthony Davis? Yes. I would trade him and Horford for Anthony Davis. But I think there's some rule

that they're not allowed to do that, though. This whole thing where Kyrie was the franchise guy and Davis is also a franchise guy and you can't have two guys in the same team. What's it called? You're right. It's called the Windhorst rule. Windhorst was the one

who I think stumbled across it. But it has a name. There's a name for those types of players. Yeah, I would trade Tatum and Horford for Davis, I think. Because Davis is still young. But here's the thing. If I'm doing that, Davis better tell me he's signing with me before we even do it.

Why do you have Davis ahead of Kawhi on here? You have Davis at two on this list, which is not really something. Davis better tell me he's signing with me before we even do it. I need to take his blood. You have Davis at two on this list, which is not really something. I don't, I have no idea. I think Kawhi is a really strange guy. I think what happened last year in San Antonio was really strange. I think it's strange that he's just this blank slate about whether he likes Toronto or not. Like it's a pretty good situation there, but it's really does.

It seems like he doesn't know where he's going to play next year. I don't think any of it is strange. I think he had a tough leg injury that was tough to diagnose. And there was a communication problem in San Antonio that caused him to lose confidence in, in the folks. He didn't, he came to believe that they didn't have his best interests at heart.

And once that happens, once that trust is violated for, for a guy that's relying on, on his legs for his livelihood, it's tough to get that back. And then it became, you know, a marriage that couldn't be repaired.

And the jury's still out about what's going to happen in Toronto. All I know is they've been in the top three of all the teams in the NBA all season long. They've served notice that they intend in the NBA all season long. They've served notice that they intend to kick ass all season long. And I think they're a legit contender to win the East.

I agree. And actually put up a pretty interesting fight against the Warriors this June. I agree with you. I would not trade Jason Tatum for a guy who might leave me in four months.

I think that's crazy. Wouldn't do it. I just think it's a little... I've traded him for four more years. I think it's crazy. Wouldn't do it. I just think it's a little, I've paid him for four more years. I think it's a little narrow. I would trade him for Davis. I get Davis for this year and next year. And then,

and then all the way through, Hey, hold on. We can take a break, talk about state farm. They're here to help the trades go. Right. As we've been talking about,

you can check out my trade value guide right now, live on the ringer.com. It's going to be up all weekend. It's a living, breathing organism. It's going to change next month. It's like I was watching Predator on the airplane. It's going to be like Predator. All of a sudden, it'll wake up. The rankings will be different. We're going to talk about Carl Anthony Towns really quick on this. I had him- I want some help. Can State Farm write me an Uber policy? I need to keep my rating high. When I get in the Uber tonight after this podcast to go home,

I'm going to need them to, I need some insurance against my rating. Well, if you have State Farm insurance, I mean, that'd be great. You get an agent. Maybe that agent can help you out. I need some Uber insurance. Tell your State Farm agent to get your rating up. Five five rating five star insurance so towns i had at 16 he leaves me cold

when i go to watch him in person he disappears i don't like his body language but he puts up stats and i don't know what to make of him he would drive me crazy if he was celtics best player did i have him too high or too low at 16 I think he's in the right place at 16 it's assuming uh you got to get there the Aaron Fox out of 15 I mean that's just great he's staying there you might go higher conversation as the Aaron Fox I've made the point the interesting thing with Carl Anthony Towns is we are rewriting his narrative as we speak so i don't you and i saw him live together yeah that's right back in in october in los angeles seems and i agree with you he left me cold as well i was wondering you know when it was that he might assert himself but this was in the doldrums

of the jimmy butler soul sucking era yeah and they he he's shown signs of life i'm very interested in watching him play with my own two eyes live so i have to go to a game to see the t-wolves i want to see what he looks like i want to see how he's asserting himself i want to see the reaction to his teammates around him all those kinds of things that that the body language doctor you your own self take into account when you're watching a game with your own two eyes live. I want to see K.A.T. now that he has been unburdened with the basketball cancer, Jimmy Butler. Yeah. I want to get to NFL picks so quickly. Check out the whole list if you want to check it out. There's honorable mention guys in there, a whole bunch of things.

Just two more guys I wanted to mention, then we'll do the picks. I dream on green at 28. Too high or too low? The guy can't shoot anymore. Have you seen, have you watched the Warriors games? Teams are treating him like, I don't know, like he's George Mirosan from 25 feet. I think we're in an impossible moment. We wondered when the time was going to come with Golden State. We anticipated it could be this season

where they just officially stopped giving a crap during the regular season. They showed signs of it last season. We both went under on the win total for Golden State this year. They just really can't be bothered. And Draymond, as has been observed a million times before, he's the straw that stirs the drink. If he's not out there, first of all, he hasn't been healthy

for a good chunk of the first third of the season. But if he's not out there agitating and getting technicals and mixing it up with other guys and doing the kind of stuff that you want that dirty dog to do, it's very hard to get a read on, you know, how his value translates and, you know, whether or not he – what he's going to be able to deliver to them come playoff time is really still in the kitchen.

You know what I mean? House. Two years ago, 2015-16 season, 14, 10, and 7 every night. 49%, 39% from 3, 19.3 PER. Last year, goes down to 11, 8, and 7. 3 point goes down to 30%. This year is 6, 8, and 7. Three-point now at 21%. This is not a slump, and this is not an effort thing. The fucking guy can't shoot anymore. He can't shoot.

And it started last year. Teams were like, please shoot the three, and then he made a couple in the playoffs. But for the most part, that was part of Houston's strategy, playing Golden State. Please shoot Draymond. And now it's to the point where they're playing four on five offensively because his guy is just dipping down seven feet from the basket.

He's got this year 17.5, next year 18.5. Had a huge thing with Durant that was really bad. And, you know, if Durant ends up going, I wouldn't be surprised. But, and whether that has to do with the Draymond thing, who knows. But it just seems, it's the kind of thing that

went well beyond the whole, oh, teammates, it's like a marriage team. This is, seems a little darker than that. But I don't know what kind of trade value he would have and who you're trading for the other guys in this list are gobert is 25 bill 26 george 27 draymond 28 and cg mccollum cj mccollum 29 that was they're all in their own group i you could talk me into i have draymond 10 spots too high but is he now as a defensive specialist,

because that's kind of where he's going to end up, as a defensive specialist and a guy that is really a defensive architect, he's a defensive quarterback, how does that value translate come playoff time? He only really needs to be a medium- threat from three offensively that's really the only thing he needs to be able to stand at the free throw line and pass the ball properly and he can't do that down like but if you can't do that three threes if you can't do that we're in trouble well that's it that's it there i mean that that's really the difference between whether or not

golden state wins the championship again but the defensive part of it is the thing that that distinguishes him. And that's all whether or not he's healthy and that's effort. And that's where his – wherever his mindset is come playoff time. All his value is there in that stretch from April to June, whatever his energy level is, how his health is, and his mindset to go be that defensive dog. The other guy I want to mention, I have Marvin Bagley at 35.

And he was in the 50s at one point when we were doing this list. He's kind of winning me over. I don't know what he is. I don't know if he's somebody that just is a great guy to have in your fantasy league, if he's somebody who's going to be the summer league MVP next summer, and that'll be the highlight of his career, or if he's somebody that's going to be the summer league MVP next summer, and that'll be the highlight of his career, or if he's somebody that might have a chance, but I like how hard he plays.

I think he's, he's got really lively legs, like his ability to go up, come down and, and all of a sudden he's back up for the second rebound. Like he's, he's just really active. And I think that was part of the, you know's back up for the second rebound. He's just really active.

I think that was part of the makeup, part of the description. I think KOC or one of the guys, one of the ringer draft guys, you're hitting on one of the highlights of his draft resume, and it's what obviously made him attractive to Sacramento. Still a mistake. They still should have taken Dodgers. They attractive to Sacramento. Still a mistake. So they still should have taken that forever live with, with that mistake. That's right. I was just going to say it,

but, but he's not a bust and he's, he's going to be a really good NBA player. I think it turned out to be a terrific situation for him. Like, you know, he has the, the,

the opportunity to, to not have to try and operate in a spotlight with the light shining on him where the franchise is counting on him. This is why I'm impressed with Aiton. Aiton does have a spotlight on him. He was the number one overall selection, and there's lots of questioning around him over Doncic and whether he was the right guy at that place. And he's been, his efficiency is incredible.

It looks like it's only headed in one direction. It seems like it's going to be about... Wait, we need to talk about this. Go ahead. How many times have you seen him? I've never sat down and watched a Phoenix Suns game from the beginning to the end. He played well against the Celtics last night, and it made me regret having him 24,

because I had caught him on a couple other nights. The effort seems to come and go. He had a habit, and hopefully this is just a habit that he can break out of. He's getting empty stats. He would end up with a 16 and 10, but it just was like, if you actually watched it, you're like, ah, that guy's... The smarter teams

on defense are able to just basically... He can't shoot for more than, I don't know, 16, 17 feet. And it just... It was like, what is this? Does this guy make sense and where basketball is going?

But then you watch a game like, like what happened with the Celtics last night where him and Rashawn Holmes, like just killed the Celtics on the board and he was active. So now I don't know what to think. He's on a team that has no point guard. He's on a team that the coach might be terrible. We're not sure, but it certainly has been a rocky start.

Coach Igor? Yeah, Igor. And then the Dacic thing, he's got that thing too. I don't know where it's going. He might be Michael O'Candy. I don't know. He might be way better than that. I don't know. Nah, the first 30 games, that'll be a fun comparison.

I'll go look on the internet and try and do a first 30-game comparison. I think he's exactly where he should be on a team that's actively trying to lose games. Once every three games, they galvanize. They come together. Let's go try and win one. They sniff one. They want to make a point against the rest of the league. Last night was on NBA TV against the celtics i was pretty impressive

he played really well that was his best game of the year last night so maybe he heard about the trade value list you know i gotta say the sons are so fucking stupid they're just the dumbest team like they they your analysis no they're so stupid though. I mean, I put in the column about how they somehow ended up with five small forwards over the last two years with lottery picks and trading up and free agent thing. But even like the way they handled the Tyson Chandler and Austin Rivers buyouts, those guys are expiring contracts. That's one of the best commodities to have. They gained nothing out of getting rid of Tyson Chandler other than they get the other guys more playing time,

but you don't have to do that in November. Keep him. He's making like 13, something like that. Rivers is making like 12. Now you package those two together. Now you have 25 million expirings. You can actually go get somebody for that.

You know, you get your boy, John wall. Well, whether they get somebody or not, that's the way you work your way into getting additional picks at a minimum because you become the third team

facilitating teams that are wanting to do principal deals, principal to principal deals. You're the vehicle with that cap space with those expirings. It's not a great look. The Knicks did the same thing. The Knicks bought out Joakim Noah and then their fans were like,

we wouldn't have had Noah Vonley that way. You could have waived Ron Baker. But keep Joakim Noah because especially if you have a chance to get KD next summer, you could either stretch the Noah thing out a year from now or use him as an expiring to get somebody else or whatever.

These teams, I would never buy out an NBA player. I just don't get it. I, unless it's after the trade deadline. Unless his name is Dwight Howard. I agree with you. All right.

Well, house, you're going to come back on in January before I come up with, uh with whatever the January ranking is where we'll have write-ups for the 55 guys and I'll get your help. I've heard your case on all of these different things. And now America knows that you would trade Jason Tatum for four months of Kawhi Leonard. Oh, in a heartbeat. I'm not going to move off that position. Great.

I'm excited. I appreciate you inviting me back on come on in January because the real NBA season is about to get started. It starts on Christmas, all those games, and boy, we're about to start getting interesting. It's my favorite time of the year in the NBA. It starts on Christmas.

We're going to take one quick break and then do NFL picks. Let's talk about Microsoft Surface. If you need a device that helps you get stuff done but is also perfect when you want to catch up on some fun, like streaming live sports or checking on your fantasy team, check out the latest member of the Microsoft Surface family, the new Surface Pro 6. Just take the keyboard off, use it like a tablet,

or snap it back on and use it like a laptop. With up to 13 and a half hours of battery life and the new 8th gen Intel Core processor it's everything you love about the Surface Pro now even more powerful check it out, the Microsoft Surface

and speaking of things to check out, check out TheRinger.com check out our end of the year stuff and check out our merch we have a whole bunch of new merch sweat, hoodies sweatshirts, t-shirts. What? Really?

Awesome. Well, relatively new. All right, cool. You've seen some of it. Brought some home for my daughter. All right, cool. Kyle, you're fine. You have plenty of Ringer merch.

I do. I'm sorry. But America doesn't. Go to the ringer.com slash shop. Check out all of our merch back to us. All right. I lost 300 K last week. I'm still up 4.195 million dollars on the million dollar NFL picks last week.

I'm happy you kicked me off last week because I talked you out of a bunch of money lines that you could have. Yeah, you saw the Patriots took you and did a Dwight Howard on you. Yeah. Uh, but, but you're still above $4 million. Congrats.

Thank you. Um, I really like two games and I'm going to seek your counsel on the third. Oh, but before I do that, is there any game you love this week? There, there, there, But before I do that, is there any game you love this week? There are two games where I feel like the line's kind of crazy. The Saints have not been good in about a month.

I'm not sure why the Steelers are getting five and a half points. I know James Conner's questionable, but I thought the Steelers last week served notice to us once again that it is december they're in a stretch run seating matters now i don't i didn't look at the um the playoff diagram to see whether or not they are incented uh they they they have locked up the the afc north for all intents and purposes who has has? The Steelers. There's scenarios under which Baltimore could still sneak in there, but the Steelers

have locked it up for all intents and purposes, right? No, this is a worse take than your Kawhi Leonard pick. What do you mean? I almost want to edit this out, but then F you after you dissed Jason Tatum. Pittsburgh's 8-5-1

and Baltimore's 8-6. So if Baltimore wins this week and Pittsburgh loses, Baltimore takes control of the AFC North. Baltimore's on the road at San Diego this week with the Louisville kid playing quarterback.

It's winnable. That's the best defense that Baltimore will have faced in the six games since they started dabbling with him at quarterback. Did. It's winnable. That's the best defense that Baltimore will have faced in the six games since they started dabbling with him at quarterback. Did you see the Lamar Jackson passing yard stats? They're pretty brutal. It's like 150 yards a game. I still like them. I wish the Pats had taken them, but damn. Sure. All right. So you think Pittsburgh's intriguing. What was the other one you liked? This is a kiss of death. Can you believe that the Washington Deadskins are still in the hunt for the NFC East? Yeah, I can't.

I mean, it's really... I can't believe it. It's just unbelievable. Them getting 10 points in a game where the two teams might score 25 points combined, I like it because Tennessee is terrible and Washington is terrible also. And I think the two of them combined are going to score like 27 points. And so Washington getting 10 points under that scenario, I like the Deadskins. Yeah, what's the money line on that game?

Oh, I'll just look. I mean, the Deadskins are getting 10. Yeah, so you have to be like plus 380 maybe? I'm going to look at it right now. I'm looking it up right now. God. 435. Plus 435.

And the over-under is 37 and a half. much of josh johnson josh johnson did you watch last week he he's an american hero he was playing high school football i watched enough he can run it hurt i couldn't believe my eyes it's a radical thing to see a washington quarterback who can generally you know since rg3 i felt like it was the second coming of rg3 wow wow maybe i'll throw a hundred bucks on that house or two or i'm sorry 200 000 it's why before i said it i laughed like i'm like like a drunk maniac well you are a drunk maniac but all right here are my picks huh you are a drunk maniac. Here are my picks. I'm not doing this,

but I took a long, long, long, lusty look at the Seahawks plus two and a half at home in a night game. It just seems like, wow, what a lack of respect. Classic. Nephew Kyle and I watched the entire Niners game as Kyle's girlfriend FaceTimed him and kept interrupting him. respect classic i watch nephew kyle and i watched the entire niners game as kyle's face uh girlfriend

facetimed him and kept interrupting oh my god oh my god is that five times get out of here facetimed her same girlfriend yeah a lot of it she's back she's back for the holidays how's dr bill feel about that we going to talk to him later about it. But yeah, we watched that whole game. It was pouring rain. Seattle clearly was looking ahead to the Chiefs, and the Niners played really well. And it was kind of one of those games like,

really, they're going to lose this? And then they ended up losing in OT. And I do wonder if they were looking ahead a little bit to this. You watch the Chiefs. Not a great defense. Not a good defense. Not a mediocre defense. It's a below average defense.

You can run the ball down their throats. I love the way Chris Carson's running the ball this year. And unfortunately, I traded him in fantasy. It was one of the reasons I lost. But really, really, really running with some vigor. And man, I keep looking at this going, doesn't this just seem like a classic? They run the ball down the Chiefs throat.

Mahomes barely gets the ball. And the crowd gets involved. And with all that said, something's keeping me away. Something scares me. Well, the money line's only plus 115. I don't like it. And they're plus two and a half. If it was like three, I would be on it.

But the two and a half, I don't love. And I'm also not positive Seattle is that good. That's the other thing. I think Seattle's good. I think they're going to make the playoffs. But there might be a level they can't go to. You know, KC is, from a talent standpoint, a top five team. I like the Damian Williams running back

that was in there and was running on the Chargers a little bit last week. He's yet another guy who's better than any Patriot running back. So I'm going to stay away, but I just wanted to pay respect to the Seahawks as a home dog in a night game. Feels like such a rare opportunity, you know?

Yeah. But they lost six games. All right. Here's what I got going house. I am all in on this Nick Foles thing. I'm all in. Yeah. I'm a hundred percent all in and nothing would make me happier than Nick

Foles keeps winning. And the annoying obnoxious Eagles who have tormented me all year are going to have to come to grips with the fact that their hero, Carson Wentz, isn't even the best quarterback on his own team. I want Nick Foles to keep winning and playing well. I think that he gives the team a little bit of life.

They really looked like the Eagles on Sunday night. I don't think Houston's very good. I keep going against them. At least in my picks poll. I stopped betting against them until this week. But I watched that entire Jets game last week. I was not impressed.

And I really felt like a couple stupid plays and all of a sudden they somehow win by seven and they cover. Jets kicker missed two extra points. And it was just, the teams were even and the Jets aren't good. And the Jets went for it from their own 25-yard line. They gave that, the cover came because of the turnover on downs. The Jets did not have to go for it at that point. They could have punted.

They still had the timeouts. I thought the Jets and Texans looked even from a downstate point. Jets have a pass rush. They have one great receiver who made an incredible play on the touchdown drive that they needed. Their quarterback's good, but

I just don't think they're that good. And Philly's still playing for a chance to make the playoffs. I had the same reaction when Houston came to Washington. Houston and Washington were functional equivalents. Now, that's the game that Alex Smith had his leg detached from his body. So best of luck to Alex Smith. I hope everything works out.

I don't know if he's going to have an NFL career any further, but he seems like a good dude, and I hope to see him on TV, and I hope life goes great for him. Seven, whatever that contract is ought to, ought to help the contract. Danny Snyder guaranteed for him. Um, I'm right there with you. I've been watching Philadelphia pretty intently. Uh, I went together with some pals over the Thanksgiving holiday and watch them play Dallas. That was a very enjoyable football game. I was super impressed by Philadelphia. And my opinion, my takeaway from that game was, boy, Carson Wentz really effed them.

He kept throwing balls behind dudes. Like, what's the scenario? I asked those guys. They felt like I was, you know, trolling them. I was like, at what point does Foles, you have to start thinking about Foles. You can't keep throwing behind receivers in these games where, you know, it's a hairline difference between winning and losing.

Well, he brings a calm to them. He got Alshon Jeffrey involved again, and he brings God. He brings those three things. You know what else he brings? Yeah. Luscious lips. Have you seen his lips? He's got beautiful lips. Nick Foles.

I like, December is the month where at least one team, something weird happens and they get weird momentum or whatever the fuck. And it just feels like something's going on here. I can't believe they're only laying two points.

I can't believe it. This is one of my favorite picks of the entire year. I love Philly, so I'm putting $1.1 million to win a million on that one. Here's the other one. The Bears are in San Francisco. San Francisco has won two games in a row. They beat Denver 20-14. They beat Seattle in overtime.

A game which I watched in its entirety. The quarterback actually played pretty well in that game. I liked their defensive coordinator. I thought the team played hard. And it really seemed like they wanted to avenge the Seattle beating that they had gotten a couple weeks ago. Receiver made a couple plays. They got some luck. Janikowski screwed up. They got a special teams touchdown. I'm not sure if they played that game 10 times and it was good weather and not pouring rain. I think Seattle probably wins. But my point is that was probably their Super Bowl.

They've won two straight. This does not seem... Is the team with... Who's it? Nick Mullins? Yes. Yes, that's him. They're going to win three straight with Nick Mullins? They can do it.

And Brita? They're getting four. I like Brita. The magic number here, they're above the magic number of three. Well, here's what I got for you, house. I got the Bears going to San Francisco. They're laying four,

but they're minus 190 on the money line. The Bears win this game, they lock up the three seed. There's a scenario where Dallas could win two and the Bears lose two and the three seed is in jeopardy. I talked to Big Cat Robert Mace

and in jeopardy. I talked to Big Cat Robert Mace and Bengal Bob. I called him Big Cat Robert Mace for some reason. No offense to Big Cat out there. Shout out to the Big Cat. We love Big Cat. Chicago's own Big Cat. I didn't mean to slander it. It's easy to confuse the Big Cats. Yeah, and the Bengal Bob. I wonder if they've ever hung out.

But I asked Bengal Bob, who's followed this Bears team very closely. He says the gas pedal, the foot might be off it a tiny bit. He's worried about the Eddie Jackson thing, but still feels like it's not going to be a no-show. So it sounds like a sweated out, you know, but here's the thing. Their defense is fucking awesome. And Nick Mullins is a third string quarterback,

and that should matter. They win this game. They're done. They can rest everyone a week 17. And I want to take that one 90 and I want to put that with the Browns minus four 60. They're 10 point favorites over the Bengals and that Driscoll guy. Who's terrible.

Little Hugh Jackson revenge game house. Oh, right. They already got a game house. Oh, I like this. They already got a little revenge on Hugh, but now they're getting more revenge. You put those two together, Bears minus 190, Browns minus 460. That is 1.19 million to win a million are the odds. It's minus 119. So that's a money line parlay. Minus 119.

You got to pay. Basically, it's a minus 120. You got to pay 120 to win 100. are the odds. It's minus 119. So that's a money line parlay. Minus 119. You got to pay, basically, it's a minus 120. You got to pay 120 to win 100. Minus, yeah. That's how it kind of translates, huh? Right, minus 119. Yeah, yeah, okay. I like it. I don't have any reason to dissuade you

from Cleveland or Chicago. If I had a million dollars, I might bet a million dollars on that one. 1.19 million. I just don't have it. So, well, you on that one. 1.19 million. I just don't have it. So, well, you're not up $4.1 million like I am. I have a huge nest egg. It's true.

I should mention, and we're going to talk about the Pats with my dad in a second. Took a long, long look at Bills plus 13. And there are a variety of cases for it. Running, Kyle, turn your mic on for this one. You're going to want to hear this. First of all, nephew Kyle and I are not going to be watching this game together. That's always bad. You realize when he shows up on time for a Pats game, we're undefeated.

When he shows up late, when his girlfriend's FaceTiming him, it always goes badly. I walked in last week, and we got a touchdown. Yeah, you were down 7-0, though, because you were late. Does it matter what he smells like? What if the mango vape? What if the mango vape is in effect? Is that a thing?

Mango vape. That's going to be the name of his podcast, Mango Vape. Oh, please. Come on, y'all. So, second game against a division rival. I always like the second time the teams play. You know, you have a feel for each other at that point. Josh Allen running quarterback's problem.

The Bills have a really, really good defense. They've had a lot of injuries. That's the reason not to do this. But the bet I was looking at, the Pats are favored by 13. It's like nobody's watched them. Now Josh Gordon's out. Gronk's a shell of himself. It's really hard for them to move the ball.

It's cold out. I just don't think the Pats are going to score a lot of points in this game, which led me to Pats under 29.5 points. The over-under for their points in this game is 29.5.

Yeah. The over-under for the entire game is 44.5. Right. I like this. So the question is, can they get to 30 points? And if you look at it, their offense, they scored the most points this year. They were pretty prolific, but Gordon was involved. And now, no Gordon.

Gronk seems really banged up. The run game, it's like running back committee. None of them have been good and they got away from James White the case for them to score points is they're going to get back to being the Pats a lot of James White a lot of screens a lot of things but

the real problem with the Pats this year is it's a pretty easy offense to figure out when they're not playing no huddle and spreading everybody out and they're just trying to play traditional they really have trouble moving the ball they scored 10 points in pittsburgh house it's embarrassing 10 points in pittsburgh the concern i would have with that 29 and a half is the best way to to beat buffalo is to keep that defense on the field and do a lot of dinking and dunking which is kind of the patriots way and that's what I think you're talking about in terms of, you know,

short ball control offense that's run through the pass. Yeah. And, you know, they don't need – 28 points will win the game. It's a game that's setting up for like 28-14 or something like that. They might cover that 13-1⁄2. I'm seeing 13-1⁄2 right now. They might cover the 13 or 13-1⁄2. 13-1⁄2.

But 28 points wins the game, and that's at this stage what they need. They need the W, right? Yeah, and then Buffalo on the other side is going to try to, you know, it's not like they're going to be flinging the ball around. They have one receiver, and he was in their practice squad four weeks ago. That guy, what's his name, Foster? He's had three straight 100-yard games. Who?

Guy on Buffalo. Oh. Buffalo? Yeah. Yeah don't watch Buffalo. Yeah. I don't watch Buffalo. Yeah, and they're on like they have practice squad dudes everywhere. That's the reason not to take them. My question is, can the Pats get to 30?

I would say no. I'm not going to bet it because I don't feel rational about the Pats right now. I don't trust my own instincts on it. When you're mad at your team or you're upset, it's not a good time to bet them. So I'm staying away from that. Well, maybe your dad will talk you into one way or the other.

My dad is more upset than I am. I also was looking at the Saints minus six as more of a I don't like Pittsburgh bet, but I think you're right. The Saints have been, they've shown a lot of moxie these last few weeks. They've been on the road for a month. They won a couple tough road games.

The case for them in this game is they're home. They got their shit back together. I haven't liked what I've seen from Breeze these last few weeks. It seems like they're having trouble throwing the ball, just point blank. I was so upset that I missed the opportunity to gamble on philip

rivers as the mvp oh my god you guys talked about you and we didn't do it talked about then you tweeted it you didn't do it no we sound i were at a party on wednesday night we pulled up the odds it was 22 to 1 it was plus 2200 brother b was there. We all talked about it. We all agreed the odds were too high. And then as usual, we did nothing. And now it's plus 550. Those are you. That's three of the biggest, by the way, speaking of degenerate gamblers, that that's just an opportunity missed because you didn't have the California gambling app on your, the Los

Angeles gambling app on your phone, able to place the bet as it occurs to you. I think that's coming here to the District of Columbia, Washington, D.C. Gambling is legal, and my wife is taking the mortgage out of my name. She's moving the mortgage out of everything, the bank account out of my name, the mortgage out of my name, life insurance, none of it's going to be under my name anymore. When does D.C. officially get's a it's a ways away yet all that happened is the city council uh you know basically passed a resolution i think the app is dangerous

tell me about it oh daddy that's gonna be a problem but that's but that's the thing if you had philip rivers at 22 to 1 staring you in the face. Yeah, you just put that one in. And you had the app. I mean, then you don't miss that opportunity. Well, he's plus 550 now. The case for him with that bet is the Chiefs lose in Seattle. Breeze has like another ugly game against Pittsburgh.

And Rivers takes care of business against Baltimore in a big way. And they win like 32 to 10 and he's got three touchdowns and throws for three 50. And everybody's like, whoa, Phil rivers. Why can't he be the MVP?

And now all of a sudden they're the one seed. There's a roadmap for it. I just wish the odds are better. They've been the most impressive team in the NFL the past month, I would say. The problem is they have no home field advantage in LA. And when they're home, the line's four and a half. Their line's only four and a half because they don't have a home field advantage. If they had a good home field, the line would be seven.

It's almost like Vegas docks them, two and a half points. All right, so my million dollar picks. Philly, minus two over Houston. 1.1 million to win a million. Bears, minus 190. Parlayed with Browns, minus 460. 1.19 million to win a million. And staying away from everything else.

Joe House, good luck getting that Uber. Thank you, buddy. I need State Farm to give me some insurance on this rating. All right, we'll talk to them. Thanks, House. All right. Thanks this rating. All right. We'll talk to them. Thanks, house. All right. Thanks, buddy.

All right. Before we get to my dad, I just want to talk about TheRinger.com one more time. Spread the word for us. We had an awesome year. I'm really proud of everybody, how we've grown as a team, how some of our young ones have gotten a lot better, how some of our OGs continue to crank. You look at our site today and it's just awesome. We have so much good stuff.

Brian Curtis wrote about Jimmy Pataro. Jonathan Sharks wrote about Brooke Lopez. I have my trade value column. David Shoemaker wrote about memes. John Gonzalez ranked the NBA's one name all-stars. Allison Herman wrote about Netflix, how they're trying to own Christmas. We have Kevin Clark and Robert Mays on football.

Roger Sherman rethought the NFL's playoff format. Oh, the 40 best movie musicals of the past 40 years. That's on too. We tried to figure that out. It goes on and on. Check it out. It's a really great website. We're only two and a half years in.

And between that and the Podcast Network, all the videos we're doing, our great video team and everything else, it's been fun to wrap up the year from a position of stability and the chance to just keep getting better at this stuff. I love it. I really do.

It's been great. We got 90 people now. It's nuts. Anyway, check it out, theringer.com. Check out The Ringer Podcast Network on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're calling my dad. All right, we are taping around 3.30 Pacific time Thursday. I flew back from New York today. And some tough news for the Pats. Josh Gordon kind of left the team before it got announced that he's back in whatever that

substance abuse program is. It was kind of a fitting end to a terrible Patriots week. Not that America feels bad for us. I know you don't. I'm not asking for sympathy. I know it's been an unbelievable run. It's just for the first time, I think during this entire Belichick-Brady era, you can kind of see the finish line now in a lot of different ways. So, of course, I thought I'd call the one person who's more depressed than I am, my dad.

Dad, how are you? Are you doing all right? I'm fine. I'm fine. But, you know, I can't say I'm depressed. I'm very sad on so many levels. You know, you and I don't know Josh Gordon. I never met him.

I certainly knew his history, watched him play this year. You and I talked during the season. Would he be able to get through the season? I mean, he's been battling such addiction and so many demons for so many years. And we get through the 14th game of the year and it looks like with all the protections the patriots supposedly have put in place and he's got the lock-in next to tom brady and he's got his family living with him here that that maybe things have stabilized yeah and then and then you find out today that they haven't, and his season is over.

But not surprising, though, right? I can't say I was shocked even 1%, and I think that was both. I was a little shocked. You know, if it happened three or four weeks into his season, or five or six weeks, but we only have two games left and i i thought i thought he had made it through the year and maybe was getting healthier and you know they had a story about him that is again like i said his family had moved up here with him and yeah he was living near the stadium and you know if all of that can't work, boy, the addiction is so strong that you just wonder for him whether he can ever beat it, defeat it, you know?

Well, this was the reason not to sign him. And I mean, I was on this podcast before we signed him. This is not an I told you so. It was just a fact of what this was, was that the problem with banking on him really is if you get past those first four weeks and then you start to get used to what he can do and then the rug gets pulled out. And it goes to a bigger conversation about why they made that gamble in the first place when it was risky. It's risky to get involved with somebody who hadn't really succeeded in football in five that gamble in the first place when it was, it was risky, you know,

it's risky to get involved with somebody who hadn't really succeeded in football in five years and had a lot of demons and is obviously going through stuff. And the reason they, they did the gamble became pretty clear as the season went along, this isn't a very good team and they don't have a lot of talent and they've whiffed on some drafts and now we're here. And this was a little bit of a, I think a little bit of a Hail Mary looking back. Well, I don't disagree with you. I think football wise, you know, just talking football wise, not, not at all forgetting

that somebody is battling an addiction and, and, and he's having a serious relapse. But putting that aside for a minute, it was a gamble. And interest, you know, when they traded Brandon Cook and they didn't resign him and Dohler and they didn't bring back Lewis, their offense was half the offense we had a year ago. Yeah. And they didn't replace it in the draft. So they took a Hail Mary, like you said. And, you know, I remember five or six weeks ago, I think Brady threw him to him 10 times in the game.

And it was like, he was the main receiver. I think Gronk, maybe Gronk missed that game, or maybe he was playing, and Brady just kept going to Gordon over and over, almost too much. I think the newspapers the next day said that he shouldn't have targeted Gordon so much, but nobody else was getting open. So they kind of shifted their offense. But that's the problem with this is that it was a gamble that they actually started to rely on him. It wasn't like the equivalent of like if the Celtics added.

Well, out of necessity. If the Celtics added the basketball equivalent of Josh Gordon, right? And he's playing 14 minutes a game. And then it goes away. You're okay. You can survive it. This was a case where within six weeks, he became our most important receiver.

Well, he did. And that was a problem. You and I, the last two weeks were different. And I mean, last week he got targeted two times and dropped one of the two passes right in his hands. And the week before, I think he was only targeted three times. Something changed. And, you know, now you look back and we don't have any information about what changed except what we're reading today. But suddenly he wasn't being targeted by Brady so much, or he wasn't getting open.

And now you start to wonder, did he relapse three or four weeks ago? And were they starting to notice it on the field? And da-da-da-da. to notice it on the field and dah, dah, dah, dah. But it's just, you know, for him and his family, a terrible situation for the Patriots, who, as you said, they started to rely on him too much until the last couple of weeks. Well, they didn't have a choice. They're really in a bind. Yeah. And you look back this week, I put on Twitter before,

I was saying it's probably the bleakest week during the regular season that I can remember during the Belichick era, other than when Brady tore his ACL. Maybe the Hernandez stuff was in there too, though. Yeah, that didn't happen during the season, though. No, it didn't. Yeah, I'm just saying like during the season. Gronk tore his ACL once, that sucked.

Hurt his elbow another time. But this, the combination of that really discouraging Steelers game, when it was the first time you just kind of look at this team and you're like, wow, this team, the switch is just not there this year for what we have. Then the Pro Bowl announcements come out. Two Pro Bowlers, Stephon Gilmore,

who's been great this year. And then Brady got it over Andrew Luck and Deshaun Watson, which was kind of criminal. It was like a reputation thing. Brady did not deserve to make the pro bowl. Other than that, there was nobody that there was even a case for. And you go back and you think like that 2014 team, the team that beat Seattle in the Super Bowl,

and all the talent that was on that team, on both sides of the ball. And I think they had seven pro bowlers, but just across the board. And it was really because they had done a bunch of good drafts in a row. And then you look at the drafts that they had the last couple of years, they just haven't gotten anything

out of the last three drafts. And if we've learned anything over the years, that is death in the NFL. If you miss three straight drafts. I mean, the mantra here of so many years in Bill We Trust, in terms of Belichick, people aren't saying that anymore. And, you know, it's not just the draft. You look at the elite athletes who they've allowed to move on. And maybe they haven't played great in other places, but you can't tell me that we couldn't use Chandler Jones

rushing the passer right now. Jamie Collins, I don't know how well he's playing or not playing, but he certainly played pretty well for us. And again, you let Amendola, the clutch third down receiver the last five years, and we don't have that guy this year. Michel is a nightmare. He gets hit once and he falls to the ground,

as opposed to Lewis, who always seemed to keep bouncing around. You left out the biggest guy they let go, Akeem Hicks. They let him go to the Bears. He's been a monster for the Bears. That was terrible. You know, we just won't pay people. And it's quite up to them. You know, they seem to revel in the fact that they have extra money at the end of every year.

And meanwhile, the elite type of player, as you said, we had two pro ball players and Brady certainly shouldn't have been one of them. Well, then you look back at the three. I just even let's look at this draft. They had two firsts and a second. Before you say something, remember, we're at the Masters in Augusta, Georgia. And I'm tweeting about the draft is going to be right after we return home. Yeah, you're excited. Please, please use one of those two first picks to take Lamar Jackson.

Yeah. All right. So what's happened now? Cleveland, Baltimore is running off all these games. You can't tell me that we couldn't have thrown Jackson in there to spell Brady to change up on the offense and do some fascinating offensive things that we're not capable of doing. They just don't make the right picks. You and I scream every time they trade down.

So they took Isaiah Wynn, who's a tackle, pick 23. Unfortunately, he got hurt even before the season. They took Michelle at, I think they traded backwards a couple spots, or they were stuck. I can't remember what happened, but they were at 31. I think they took him with the pick they got for Brandon Cox. Yeah, yeah. So I've been shocked.

I had in my head, I don't follow college football closely. I thought he was going to be this do-it-all running back. He's not a receiver at all. They've thrown to him like seven times, and he can't catch the ball to the backfield. If he's just a run-only running back, taking him at the end of the first round is like criminal because you look at all these other teams like Marlon Mack on Indianapolis.

He was a fourth rounder. Phillip Lindsay was undrafted. This guy, Damon Williams, the Chiefs have, who was like an undrafted free agent in 2014. He's bounced around. Cleveland Browns took Chubb, who was Michelle's teammate at Georgia. Yeah, who's better. And he's better. He's much better.

He doesn't go down after the first hit. He keeps running. He, who's better. And he's better. He's much better. He doesn't go down after the first hit. He keeps running. He gets extra yardage. The other thing with Michel, he doesn't wait for the hole to develop. Meaning he's just plowing into his own offensive lineman.

Yeah, listen, I'm not giving up on him. I just assumed if you're going to take that guy, he's got to be able to catch the ball to the backfield. And he doesn't catch the ball at all. You assume he's going to be a stud, right? And then in the second round, they took a cornerback who's basically been DMP'd. And then you go on down the line.

And the only other guy was Bentley in the fifth round. And he got hurt. You go through their whole draft. Michelle is the only one who's even playing. And I would say he's below average. So that was 2018. 2017, they traded their first for Brandon Cooks. I don't know why.

I can't remember why they didn't have a second. And then it was Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia, and Dietrich Wise, who's actually been pretty good. He was a fourth rounder. Then you go to 2016. We lost the pick because the freaking deflate gate. We lost our first-round pick because Kraft caved. So that was one.

Then we took Cyrus Jones in the second round. He's on Baltimore. Joe Thune, who plays. Jacoby Brissett, we traded. Vincent Valentine, I remember what he does. Malcolm Mitchell's already off the team. You go on down the line. There's three drafts where they just whiffed. plays. Jacoby Brissett, we traded. Vincent Valentine, I remember what he does. Malcolm Mitchell's already off the team. You go on down the line, there's three drafts where they just whiffed. And it's like, this isn't hard to figure out. We don't have any talent.

Well, you and I watched the draft and we talked during the draft and we have our, I don't even bother doing it anymore, but I used to have my charts and you'd see who everybody is saying is the next player who really could be good. And it's sitting there on the board and we go somewhere else over and over and over again. Well, can I say,

can I theorize one thing on Belichick? Cause my buddy Hench was talking about this. We were emailing about it and obviously freaking out and, you know, he's just, again, you can see the finish line. And I know America's happy. I'm not asking for sympathy. But we were just talking about how old Belichick is.

I think you're like four years older than Belichick. I don't know if it's sustainable for whatever he was doing last decade and his ability over and over again to build the roster, coach, all of these different things. Now he's in like his mid-60s heading into his late 60s. And I think about myself, I already feel like five years ago versus now, I already feel like from my ability to do stuff has slipped. And now I think like 17 years from now, whatever,

I'm not going to have the same energy or mental capacity or that stuff. And I just wonder, I look at that and I now, whatever you're like, I'm not going to have the same energy or mental capacity or that stuff. And I just wonder, like, I look at that and I go, Oh shit. Maybe, maybe this isn't salvageable. If he's a great example of,

reminds me of Doc Rivers in the Clippers, although maybe that's not a great example, that the, uh, pick your own groceries, the person who's drafting maybe shouldn't be the person that's coaching but I think he does

everything by consensus and he has that guy I think that guy what's that guy's name Nick Casario something like that who's like their director of scouting

he's the one that let Hakeem Hicks go and you know he's the one that they do those things at the direction of Belichick yeah but

I think it's I think it's I think he has his little team, his little inner circle. And obviously the inner circle needs to need some help, but you know, I think they traded a couple of guys away and you just look at the combination of that with the drafts and then Brady, who's not the same anymore. I mean, nobody wants to admit it. And then,

Well, you know, Belichick made his reputation as a defensive girl. And that kind of got exposed. That greatly got exposed in the last year of Super Bowl. And we should have predicted that they didn't make any major changes in the defense this year. So why was it going to be different? The funny thing, though, is I think the defense has been pretty good. Because I think our secondary is good.

We can't stop the run. They can't stop the run. I know, but our secondary is good this year. I think the defense is better than it was last year. It's still not good. The secondary is better, except we rarely get near the quarterback, which means, and it was evident last Sunday, Roethlisberger had all day to throw.

I mean, do you remember him being, like Brady runs around, it looks like he's going to fall down every time because he gets skittish. I don't remember a Pittsburgh quarterback getting skittish. No, Brady's old. He doesn't want to get hit anymore. He's 41. So I think it's changed how he's played. He's not young either, though.

True. And then Gronk is... It's just kind of a bummer now. He's just not the same guy. And probably this last year... Well, it kind of goes full circle to they put so much dependence

on Josh Gordon out of necessity because the other weapons weren't there. You know, as soon as they let, again, I thought the most clutch receiver the last two years was Amendola. Yeah. Even Edelman's not the same guy. No, he's not. Seven drops a share.

He looks a little skittish going in the middle, which makes sense after he had a major injury. And he's older. You know, he's a little skittish going in the middle which makes sense after he had a major injury and he's older he's a year older we left out one other thing that we didn't talk about Hench pointed this out they tried to trade Gronk

last spring and Gronk found out it was reported this story didn't even come out until a few weeks ago. I forget if it was Adam Schefter, it was one of those guys. Basically that they had a deal to trade Gronk to Detroit and it fell through because Gronk heard about it and was like, I'll retire if you trade me. That is the beginning of the end.

When they're thinking that way and they trade cooks, and it feels like a kind of a rebuilding thing, right? Which goes back to your point, why not take Lamar Jackson on the 31st pick? Right. So, it's a bummer. I mean, I was screaming for Lamar Jackson. I know.

I know he doesn't put the passing yardage up there, but boy, he would have been exciting coming in for different series series the way they used to bring, you know, other teams bring in second quarterbacks. Can you give 90 seconds on the state of the Celtics right now? It's quite depressing to go from this team, the Patriots, to the Celtics. Last night's loss might have been the worst of the season. You're talking about the worst team

in the league record-wise, Phoenix, coming in here. And I know Corford didn't play. And I know Baines broke his hand in the first quarter, but our first quarter last night was terrific. I think we had

the most assists we've had in one quarter in a long time. We're moving the ball. We weren't just throwing up these three-point shots. We were really moving it well and getting good shots. If you looked at a tape at that third and fourth quarter, there was one stretch in the beginning of the fourth quarter. Six straight times they came down the court, made one pass or no pass, and threw up a three-point shot. And six straight times they missed the three-point shot. And that's going to happen, but they stopped moving the ball. And, you know, you and I call it hero basketball, but I call it lazy basketball. Yeah, I hate when they don't drive to the basket. It's a lot easier to just come down and throw up a long jump shot instead of moving the ball around.

Can we go through? It's so frustrating. Just one sentence. You can only say one sentence about each of these guys. Jalen Brown. Extremely disappointing. Jason Tatum. Extremely disappointing.

Okay. Kyrie Irving. Playing his heart out. Oh, that's a bonus. Robert Williams. I love seeing him on the court, but he has a long way to go in terms of defense. Marcus Morris?

I'm not talking about blocking shots, but being in the right position. Marcus Morris? Excellent. Probably the MVP of the team so far. I agree with that. Yeah, I don't know what happened to Jalen Brown this year. I think he needs a sports psychologist or something.

He went from, I thought he was going to be like Paul George 2.0 to I even wasn't sure if I should put him in the trade value column. I honestly didn't know. As you know, our seats are near that we can see the Celtic bench. His body language is horrible. Yeah. He's shooting, I think 28% on three point shots.

Open ones. Open ones. Yeah. Yeah. He, uh, he totally has lost his confidence. Uh,

I, you know, don't you think Ainge needs to do some, some kind of package move? I would say on top of this, you have, it's very sad. And,

and maybe in three months it will be different, but Haywood is a shell of his former self. Yeah. He's terrified to go in underneath the basket and go up. So he's settling for these jump shots. It's going to take a while. I would trade Rozier for, for Rashaun Holmes and something else right now.

I think that guy would help us. I like Rashawn Holmes. I don't know why Philly gave him away. The guy who played back of center last night for Phoenix. Yeah, he's good. He is good. We thought he was good when he was on Philly. Yeah, Philly's stupid.

They're dumbasses. And then Phoenix is even dumber than Philly is. So let's get him. We'll give you Rozier. We'll do some sort of second round pick-swap thing and we're ready to go or whatever we need to do. Hey, before we go, first of all, I know you sound

depressed about Boston sports, but we did win the World Series two months ago and Nathan Evaldi is an American hero and we brought him back. So that was great. I like one comment on that, because I remember you had me on the podcast in August. Yeah. And I know I've mentioned this before,

but you had me on the podcast in August or September, and you asked which Boston team did I think would be the next champion. Yeah. And you very strongly said it would be the Celtics. Yeah. And I just as strongly said it would be the Red Sox. And I don't see a Celtic or Patriot championship

on the near horizon, but at least we did get that World Series victory. Did you say that before or after you quit on David Price? I never quit on David Price. You quit on David Price. I was not sure. You handed in your two weeks notice and you cleaned out your locker and you left. You left the parking lot. You handed in your two weeks notice and you cleaned out your locker

and you left. You left the parking lot. You gave up your space. I wasn't sure about David Price. I got to say, I'm still recovering from the World Series. I still am recovering from the 18 inning game. It was such a devastating loss.

We won the World Series two days later. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole weekend. Has there ever been anything like it? And I was there with my son. Yeah, I know. The whole thing was just that 18 inning game. I just don't have seven hour life or death sporting events. I can't do it anymore.

It's just, it ruins me. Before we go, since it's the holidays and it's the end of the year, you had always wanted to tell the story about when we were at the Masters, when Kyle was driving us. Oh my God. Oh no, I'm not telling that story. What happened?

You're a good man. No, you, come on. You're a good man, Dr. Bill. To the public, no, no. You're not telling that story? Thank you so much. It was going to be one of my holiday gifts to you. He just gave the gift to me.

I appreciate it, but I don't want to embarrass Kyle to the millions of fans that are listening. Can I tell the story? You can do whatever you want, but I'm not telling the story. You're a good man. You're a great man. Can I tell the story? You spent nine months.

You want to flip a coin? No, but if you give me my own podcast, I'll certainly tell the story. So we're in Augusta. Where it's me. No, you can't tell the story. All right. You know what? If Dr. Bill gets up to 50K Twitter, what are you at, like 39k?

No, I think I'm at 40 now Alright, if you're at 40, if you get to 50k by the end of the weekend Should I tweet the story? No, no, no, you'll come back on and we'll tell the story So you have to get 10,000 more

followers to tell the story If some of your 7 million followers will switch over to me and I get to 50,000, I'll certainly consider telling the story. No, you have to. If it's 50,000, you have to tell the story. But you need 10,000 by the weekend. All right. Okay, it's a deal.

All right. Dad, I'll talk to you soon. All right, bye. Okay, bye. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to State Farm for getting involved with the NBA Trade Value column. Thanks to Fando.

If you're not a fantasy expert, Fando is clearly the place to play at. Fando, you get the excitement of researching and building your team each week. Regardless of the outcome, come play with me at Fando.com slash BS. Get a $5 bonus when you make your first deposit. Fando.com slash BS. New a $5 bonus when you make your first deposit. Fanduel.com slash BS. New users only. Bonus not available for withdrawal. State and age restrictions apply for full eligibility rules and terms and conditions.

Go to Fanduel.com. Enjoy the holiday weekend. Try not to cough on anybody in the airplane if you're sick. Be nice to people. Enjoy it. It's been a really weird year in America, but that doesn't mean you can't hang out with your family and get drunk and do all the things you need to do on the holidays, Kyle. I'm so ready.

You ready? Who are you most excited for? I'll drunk FaceTime you on Sunday, so maybe we'll get one touchdown. You drunk FaceTime me during the past game? We'll get one touchdown. All right. Good for a field goal, maybe. Safe travels out there, everybody.

We'll see you in the BS pod next week.