The Bill Simmons Podcast - NFC Guesses, a Jets Benching, Thanksgiving Picks, and Mike Birbiglia’s First Appearance | With Ben Solak and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Benjamin Solak to discuss the NFC contenders emerging as the season rolls along, some of their favorite games from the Sunday slate, and each of the Thanksgiving NFL games (2:50). Then Bill talks with Peter Schrager of NFL Network and Fox Sports about the Jets benching second-year QB Zach Wilson ahead of their matchup with the Bears, looking for value in this week’s matchups, and the big sports weekend ahead (42:42), before making the Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 12 (1:05:06). Finally Bill is joined by stand-up comedian Mike Birbiglia to discuss his one-man show ‘The Old Man and the Pool,’ the best parts about working in comedy, the impact of Netflix, Boston stuff, and more (1:24:44). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Mike Birbiglia, Peter Schrager, and Benjamin Solak Producer: Kyle Crichtonikings / Giants-Cowboys / Bills-Lions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ben Solak from The Ringer figuring out some Thanksgiving picks as well as who is the best NFC team and a couple other items. So that's first. Peter Schrager, we're trying to nail the million dollar picks this week. We have one team that we really, really, really love. We created an ugly tree parlay.

And I actually feel very optimistic about this week. It is very hard to make the picks on Wednesday. The Jets helped us out. We talked about them as well. They finally changed quarterbacks. They didn't time for us to get a bet down on them. And then last but not least, Mike Birbiglia, who has never been on this podcast before, the king of the One Man Show.

He has one right now. It's called The Old Man in the Pool. It's on Broadway. It is excellent. And we talked about that and a whole bunch of other things. So this is a long podcast, but putting this up on a Wednesday night and it's got to have a tail for four days. So I want to give you a lot of content.

Hope you enjoy it. Hope you enjoy Thanksgiving as well. Let's bring in our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. Big Thanksgiving tomorrow. Ben Solak is here. We're going to hit the three Thanksgiving games and try to figure out if there are any angles for us. Before we do that, though,

there's some Niners buzz that now that we are rounding into the end of November, this has been the team all along. This is the one. This is the most complete team. You have Philly, your Eagles declining a tiny bit. Dallas, they looked great last week, but now they're going to this Giants game.

There's illnesses and injuries on both sides everywhere. The Chiefs, Mahomes, you know, still Mahomes, but they're eking these games out. They're not exactly dominant. Whereas it feels like the Niners eight plus game is better than anyone's eight plus game, at least through the first 11 weeks. We're from a ceiling standpoint.

Who do you think is the best team? NFC exclusive. You can go either conference ceiling standpoint. Chiefs are the best team that, that, that, that chargers game is a good reminder that there's the elite quarterbacks. And then there's Patrick Mahomes. It's not Patrick Mahomes among the elite quarterbacks, it's the elites. And then one more step up and you go and you get Patrick and the certainty that you

get with him late in a game. So I think that ceiling always will belong to the Chiefs. In the NFC specifically, it's extremely tough. I think we've seen the ceiling of this Eagles team, and it's a very, very good Eagles team. I think we're currently watching the ceiling of the Niners team, and I think Dallas is still getting there, right? Dallas is expecting Tyron Smith to come back this season and then be able to kick their excellent left tackle, rookie player Tyler Smith, into guard. And that bringing another step up to this offensive line

could pay off huge dividends. They really haven't had all of their weapons healthy at the same time. I think the highest ceiling belongs to the Cowboys because the pass rush for both San Francisco and for Dallas is dominant. At any time

in any game, Dallas' defensive line and San Francisco's defensive line, when they're fully healthy, can decide, like, hey, you're just not moving the ball. For four quarters, these are the two lines in the league right now that I trust to just win for 60 minutes Dallas is a little bit better of a quarterback and I think a little bit better of a passing attack though it is worth noting for as much as we know about Jimmy and what he is and what he isn't what he can he can't do he has done more like out of structure creating on his own getting out of the pocket

at 33 touchdown to George Kittle, man. I was positive that was a pick. I've seen this play too many times. I know this is a pick, and it wasn't. Jimmy has elevated a teeny bit. He's better, I think, now than he was in that 2019 season. But ceiling-wise, I think I'd still in the NFC give the

ticket to Dallas. After those three, it drops off massively. Like even if you go to FanDuel, Eagles plus 220 to win the NFC, Niners plus 340, and then the Cowboys plus 460, then it drops. Niners, I would say the thing that would make me nervous is the injury factor. Just their best three skill position guys, I don't trust that they're going to be there eight weeks from now. None of them.

The hits that Debo takes, McCaffrey's history, Kittle's history. I just don't trust it. And then you throw in the Trent Williams piece too, where it always seems like he's got something going on. So that's what makes me nervous about them. Plus the Shanahan piece of

how many times can you just look awesome for two and a half quarters? And then as we get to the fourth quarter, things start shifting. Dallas, the power thing that they tapped into, which is so funny because how many podcast topics at the ringer were about Tony Power on the fantasy show?

How many fantasy football analysts just banging the table? Just wondering when the day would come. And he's just this dominant, can be out there all the time running back. And then you throw in Smith coming back at left tackle. Prescott looked pretty good last week. I think he's probably like a slightly better version of Jimmy G at this point, unless there's some level that I don't see, but there's some upside with them. And then your team feels a little bit like the rabbit team this year. Why won't they be the Rabbit team?

The, oh God, they were so good those first eight weeks. What happened? I'm not going to say it's that bad, but what would give you encouragement that they actually have a level to go up from here? The offensive coaching staff changing and bringing some counters to the table. When you watch that Colts film,

the most concerning thing, offense or defense, you know, like Dallas Goddard's injured, how are they going to thing, offense or defense, you know, like Dallas Goddard's injured, how are they going to replace him? Jordan Davis, you know, whatever. They got some big runs, yada, yada. The most concerning thing is that the Colts secondary knew what was coming, right? The Eagles passing game menu is very simple.

They get a lot of window dressing, and they get motion, and they get play action, and they run different screens to different players and what have you. But they run as few concepts in the passing game as any team in the league does it's not an indictment on jalen hurts it's partially because of who hurts is as a passer it's also just that's all their passing offense is needed you just play the hits why not you can run a very simple offense and it works because you're so variable in the running game well again against these colts where you can't run the football as easily against Grover Stewart, DeForest Buckner, this great interior

the Colts have. The Eagles are running flood, RPO to the flat, and they're running their sticks, run to the sticks and turn around. They're all curls concept. Indies corners are just sitting and waiting. We've seen the film now. So this offensive coaching staff, and they started to change

a little bit. They involved a lot more quarterback run, true quarterback run, this game against the colts and they hadn't seen in games previous there are responsible for changing some stuff on this offense it we this offense is most analogous to like that 2018 2019 ravens offense that 2020 cardinals offense right we're like that you're running the ball out of shotgun you You're running read option. You have all these RPOs. And if you look at those offenses early in the seasons, they were unstoppable.

And then you started to get to November and into December. Some good defense coordinator figured out something. This works. The Colts were like, you know, blitzing the running back side and making sure they had

extra bodies for read option. You know, DC started to figure out what the tendencies are. And this starts to crumble. These sorts of offenses tend to have a low half-life. So it's very incumbent on Shane Steichen and Nick Sirianni, who don't have backgrounds in this offense, right? Who kind of like, you know, grafted in this quarterback run,

this shotgun run idea, to now access more of their West Coast backgrounds, find a way to make this passing game more diverse, such that corners can't cheat as much, and then this offense will hit its second stage. So offensive coaching staff, investment, development, and counters. That's what you got to see. The other thing they were

doing was they just kind of hung around and let Hurts give them five, six, seven seconds in the pocket trying to decide what to do. It was very frustrating to watch as somebody who had the Eagles in a pretty big tease. I was like, why can't he figure this out? He's got seven, eight, nine seconds,

and he still can't find anybody. Yeah, Hurts likes to see it and then rip it, right? Hurts very much would like to see it be open, see the window, and then throw it. He doesn't like to throw with anticipation. Sometimes he has these great anticipation throws, and you're like, all right, do that all the time, man. And he just doesn't like to.

One of the things the Colts did very well is they knew in their rush plan, like how are you going to get after the quarterback, this guy will create pressure for you like hurts in the pocket like you'll go first read second read once it's not there he'll start to move head down eyes down relocate get outside the pocket he's a scrambler it's what he likes to do so they didn't say you know get after him you know put pressure on the quarterback push the pocket they kept them in front of them they were exactly rushed to disorient rush to make them uncomfortable and then let him break let him go yeah they ran a lot of a cover one man with a spy and and that works well when you're positive you can play cover one which a lot of teams can't play cover

one against the eagles aj brown davante smith dallas goddard when he was healthy it's hard to play cover one against the eagles but those corners knew what was coming and they're just kind of sitting on routes and they're expecting that the deep comebacks and they're expecting the the three level flood and everything the eagles run so well so if the eagles get more variable in the passing game you're not going to be as bold playing straight cover one you're going to lose that spy player and now that jalen hurts hey just let him stand back there and cause his own problems that that strategy starts to fall apart a little bit well we have a week here that if we really trust the niners eagles Eagles, and Cowboys to be head over heels over everybody, or head and shoulders above everybody else in the NFC.

I mean, they do have three team teases we can do, right? The Niners are nine and a half at home against the Saints. The Cowboys are playing on Thursday against the Giants. They're minus 10. And the Eagles are minus Thursday against the Giants. They're minus 10. And the Eagles are minus seven against the Packers. I guess that wouldn't make as much sense to throw them in a three-teamer, but there's money line stuff you could do.

I looked at that Eagles-Packers game because I was trying to find somebody to tease the Jets with because I'm convinced they're going to ride with Mike White this week just because he's not Zach Wilson. Oh, yeah? You like it? I do.

And the Packers piece of it, even though they looked like dog shit last week, something held me back. And I don't want to bet on the Packers either, but something about that game, it just feels like a stay away all the way around. I just kind of want to see it. I don't know, are the

Packers dead? Are they alive? Was that Rodgers Thursday night game an aberration? Is that who he's going to be the rest of the way? And then with the Eagles, they were so bad in that Colts game and really should have lost. I mean, they really should have. And they didn't. But now I don't know what to think of them either.

50-yard DPI cures a lot of ills in a bad game. Oh my God. Big play right there. The reason that game feels sketchy is because two weeks ago, the Packers beat the Cowboys. And that's the nature of this season, right? Is that the head and shoulders teams aren't doing the head and shoulders business the way that we're accustomed to seeing, right?

Especially in the NFC, where everybody's one loss, everybody's two loss, everybody's three loss. It's so congested at the top in terms of records. Previously, we were like, okay, well, the Vikings are kind of posers, the Giants are kind of posers, whatever. Now it's okay. If you just get a little bit lucky, you're winning your division.

The number one seed is still very much in contention in the NFC, right? So there's a lot of pressure on a lot of these games. So I'm at a point where, you know, big favorites this year have not performed as expected,

both against the spread and against the money line. And they're tricky teams to trust. I do love the Chiefs against Bryce Perkins and these horrible, terrible Los Angeles Rams. So I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth a little bit. But that's the scary thing about the NFC, is we've seen games like the Packers beating the Cowboys.

And we know that there's some untrustworthiness, even among these top guys. Yeah, it seems like Chiefs-Rams, Chiefs are up to 15.5. When Sal and I did against the Lions, I think it was like 11. People are just pounding the Chiefs. And then the other one is that Dolphins-Titans game. The Texans made a

2B change this week. The one and only Kyle Allen is with us. 24 TDs, 17 picks. Career. I was surprised. That's not bad. That's basically Mac Jones' career. But yeah, the Miami and Chiefs combo hard to imagine them just not rolling over those teams and the Rams might be the worst

team in the league now other than the Texans the Rams in my opinion once they lost the cup became the worst team in the league they can't do anything on either side of the ball I had every Rams under the sun against the Saints and all of the props hit, and the only one that didn't hit was the freaking team total

because Tutu Atwell made the first play of his entire NFL career on the one day I fade every offensive piece of the Rams. It drove me insane. That Dolphins-Texans game, however, I love as a big position for Dolphins to score a lot of points. This Dolphins team, when they got to a back, even when they were still in like the Teddy Skyler Thompson era, very quietly underneath all of the passing game that was working so well,

they've been doing a lot of experimentation with the running game, changing the backs, changing the concepts that they use, trying to figure out how to make sure their running game is sufficient for an eventual playoff run. Well, with Jeff Wilson in the building, and I know they played Cleveland, and everybody can run against Cleveland, they've had good rushing performances, solid rushing performances over the last couple of weeks. I agree with you. Most are a good backup, too. I think both of those guys are solid.

Right. And so against Houston now, which is a too high team, a light box team, the Dolphins have the opportunity to go ahead early with an explosive passing attack, and then retain scoring potential if they elect to run the football and kind of sit on the clock in a blowout position. So I like the Dolphins a lot,

team totals and against the spread, because it's either they're going ahead early and then maintaining because they can run the ball, or even if they are in a position where they're not winning by as much as expected and it's kind of close at halftime, we've seen this offense just rip people apart in the fourth quarter.

So like the Dolphins, again, I said the big, big, big favorites got to be sketchy around these. And then lo and behold, I love the Chiefs and I love the Dolphins this week. Dolphins, I think it's 30 and a half. Is there over for total points this week? I was looking at it too, because it does feel like

they're going to have a few games. Their offense is so good where they just do a little flexing, put a little body butter on. Get Tyreek deep. Oh, Waddle, you want one? Oh, man, Gusecki's kind of been bummed out. He's only three.

Let's get him. Let's let him cook for a couple downs. Where's River Craycraft? He hasn't gotten five downs since week three. Let's get him moving. Let's get some more body butter. Let's try to get to 40 points. I do feel like, because they have,

the thing that worried me about this game with them is there's some look-ahead potential with them. They're at San Francisco a week from now, at the Chargers, which will basically be a home game for them. I don't know if there's 40,000 Miami Dolphins fans in LA, but we're about to find out. And then they're at Buffalo on December 18th.

So San Fran, Chargers, Buffalo. And Chargers are going to be pretty desperate for that Dolphins game. So that sounds like that worries me, is do they look ahead? Chargers-Dolphins is going to end the internet, man. That game is going to have a lot going into it. But yeah, I hear you.

But at the same time, the Texans have won one game. Because a lot of teams have been in it. And it was early. Yeah, it was the freaking Jags. It was our Jaguars. When I realized that last week, I had to sit down. I was like, how in the history of fading these Texans did I get on the Jaguars one week and they missed it?

But yeah, this changed to Kyle Allen. Legitimately, like, sure, but it does not improve the team. Davis Mills was not a problem. He wasn't great, but he wasn't a problem for this team. Their issue is their defensive trenches, right? Their issue is their defensive this team. Their issue is their defensive trenches, right? Their issue is their defensive schematics. Their issue is their weapons. None of that's going away.

Don't forget the coaching. Right, love you as well. So your problems aren't going away. 24-17 touchdown interception, Kyle Allen and Sullivan, everything. You know what I mean? So this is a spot where, yeah, I expect the Dolphins to run, especially because the Dolphins are in control of the AFC East. Miami has to continue

to win games, continue to put pressure on Buffalo because they got that early home game. Huge home advantage for them playing in Miami early in the year. They're going to get Buffalo late in the year. And they understand that having cushion on Buffalo in the event that Buffalo drops one is going to be very, very big for that upcoming

performance. Houston is going to have at least one of the top two picks in the draft. But then if Cleveland can't turn Cleveland's underdogs again this week, if Cleveland can't get it going, that could be like the fifth, sixth, seventh pick in the draft. They might have two of the top seven. Cleveland is such a... That Cleveland-Bucks game, I looked at it for about five seconds and I went, I have no chance

of my betting this with the way both teams did. It's an ultimate stay away. I'll be on Rashad White rushing overs because I take the rushing over for the starting back against the Browns every single week. But other than that, don't let me bet this game. But that... This Cleveland situation is interesting.

Jacoby has not played poorly. If Deshaun comes back and has rust, they're going to end up a five-win team, a six-win team? Abysmal first season performance, and so much of it is, again, because of that defensive side of the ball. They're really bad.

And I don't know why they're that bad, because I remember heading into the season, people like some of the guys in their defense. They're like, oh, these guys might be semi-interesting. As a nerd myself, I'm allowed to do this. It's because of the nerds, man. The nerds ruin the Browns their defense. They're like, oh, these guys might be semi-interesting. As a nerd myself, I'm allowed to do this. It's because of the nerds, man. The nerds ruin the Browns' defense. I think Andrew Barry's

a good general manager in the sense that he knows how he wants to build a team and he has a good theory and he has ideas that he sticks to and he has a philosophy and that's generally good. However, they min-maxed they said we're going to build for speed we're going to build for quickness we're going to build for pass defense

john johnson we're going to draft greg newsom after we already have denzel war jok is 220 pounds he's our starting linebacker they poured resource jdave and clowny we're going to pour resources into defending the pass their interior cannot like, cannot play the run. And Joe Woods has no, at least like Brandon Staley, Ejiro Ebro, that's big fans here. They try to come up with solutions. Joe Woods just lines them up and plays. He ties one hand behind his back and then says, you know,

Garrett, save us. You know, Jadavion Clowney, save us, make a play. And it's completely untenable. But like this, when we talk about this idea of a modern defense that stops the pass over, stopping the run, that surrenders five-yard runs, when you take that idea too far, you end up where Cleveland is.

Their starting defensive tackle is Taven Bryan. He was a first-round pick that busted and never, never did anything in Jacksonville to indicate he had developmental talent. They have Tommy Tung, yeah, and Jordan Elliott. These are mid-round picks. They just stick him out there to die. It's very pathetic, the way that Cleveland has decided,

yeah, we defend the pass, and then they're just getting bullied every single week. It's because of the nerds. Even the Pats are able to put some points on him. Let's take a break, and we'll do the Thanksgiving games. This episode is brought to you by Movember the mustache is back with a vengeance look at Travis Kelsey before he rocked that Super Bowl ring he rocked that super soup strainer grow a mustache

for Movember you'll do great things too you won't win the Super Bowl but your fundraising will support mental health suicide prevention and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. So we have three games. Bills, minus nine and a half in Detroit, where they've been stuck really for a week. I think both of us like golf a little bit. We'll get to that in a second. Cowboys, minus 10 against the Giants,

which even Giants fans in my life are telling me, stay away. We're so banged up. We're a mess. There's some real flipping on this Giants season that's in motion. And they're a little like the Titans where it's like, how are they doing this?

But they're so well coached, be a little scared. And I'm still scared of the Tennessee, but now I'm less scared of the giants from what's happened the last couple weeks. They really should have lost both games and easily could have lost to Houston, which as you covered is a terrible football team.

Yep. And then the game of the day is aats-Vikes, a night game. We get primetime Cousins. We get Belichick on short rest, where he's just unbelievable short rest. Cousins is horrible in night games. They lost their left tackle, two concussions in eight days. Not awesome. Once he went out of that Dallas game, the game was over.

They couldn't block at all. And the Pats defense, since week four, number one defensive DVOA, the New England Patriots. Yeah. So this is the best stat. Entering week 11,

the Patriots led the league in team pressure rate. The amount of opposing dropbacks in which they generated a pressure. Second was the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys have since leapfrogged them because they got to play the Minnesota Vikings without Christian Derrissaw. Guess who the Patriots have on Thursday?

The Minnesota Vikings. So it's a battle of can you get right back on top. The Vikings, Kirk Cousins was pressured on over 60% of his dropbacks against the Cowboys as his single game career high as an individual. And that is a product of the Cowboys as his single game career highs and individual. And that, that like that is a product of the Cowboys,

unbelievable talent along the defensive line. The Patriots do things a little bit differently. Like obviously like Jude on incredible talent. They're not as, as deep with like pure pass rushers, but the way they're able to manipulate protection, the way Belichick's able to get rushers from depth. And then the fact that their, their guys just finished their,

their rush as well. Right. Like, you know, like Dietrich wise is going to, Wise is going to handle his business. If you get Judon Isolated one-on-one, left side or right side, he's going to be able to win in both situations. When they blitz their linebackers, like Jawan Bentley,

when they bring Kyle Duggar from GDF, all these guys finish their rushes. They're so disciplined. It's going to be a day from hell for Cousins. This left tackle, Blake Brandel, can't play. Can't play. Can not play. Well, the Jets, who made the Pats offense look pretty shaky because they played them twice in a couple weeks. The Jets had the second best DVOA since week four. And the reason

not to take the Pats in this game is because they're just so afraid to let Mac Jones do anything. The pass charts are hilarious. NextGen has those pass charts for each QB. You look at the Mac Jones do anything. The pass charts are hilarious. Next Gen has those pass charts for each QB. You look at the Mac Jones pass chart, and it's basically a coaching staff deciding, you're not going to hurt us. It's just going to be all short stuff. You will throw nothing to the sidelines at all.

You will throw really nothing deep at all over the middle. We're just not letting you do that. And it's going to be a lot of dump-offs. That's one of the reasons I like the remandre receiving yards and the receiving catches because he's going to have like six, seven, eight catches every game the rest of the way, just the way they use Mac Jones. They're so scared of him. I don't know why they won't go to Zappi because if they're this afraid of Mac Jones, if you go look at Zappi's, I was sending some friends this. I was on a couple of Pat's threads. Zappi's week six pass chart

when they lit it up, it looks like Joe Burrow. He's throwing all the parts of the field. Week six? Yeah. I think that was Cleveland. He's throwing deep middle on the sideline left. They won't let Mac do that anymore. So that's the reason not to take

the Pats is they're just terrified of Mac. Yeah, which the bigger position I have in this game is on the under. Under 42.5 points, I'm under on the Vikings for this game at 21.5 points. I'll take all unders and put those into parlays and just kind of expect just a stinky tough defensive game. This

Vikings defense is prime for that Ramondre, Stephenson, Damian Harris sort of a night night where Ramondre has like you say, like five catches, six catches. They have them on screens because they're to keep everything in front of you defense and Mac is not trying to, has the license to, is available to push the ball

down the field. Like because of how Mac is playing because of how the coaching staff is coaching him, they're not going to try to test any of that intermediate stuff and the Vikings are trying to cover that anyway. They're willing to give you the shallow stuff. So I think it's going to be that big Ramondre kind of run after catch sort of a day. A big Jacoby run after a catch sort of a day when they get their explosives. The Vikings also play with very light boxes and light personnel.

And they've been good at doing that. They have a good defensive tackle group. Harry Phillips, James Lynch, they've done a good job. This Patriots rushing attack puts a lot of heavy bodies on the field. It's a big test for the way. Minnesota's box... It's very similar to the Dallas thing that demolished them.

I think we're kind of the poor man's version of Dallas in some ways. I think we'd throw the ball like that. Even then, the Patriots have bigger backs. They have a bigger offensive line. They're going to punish you if you try to play light box. So I think it's a very quick game. I think the clock runs a lot.

You'll see a lot of completions. You'll see a lot of rushing attempts. So we're going to lean to the under that way. And then I think, right, it's Ramondre and Damon Harris just kind of controlling this game. So it's very difficult to find a way that the Patriots get blown out, that the Vikings have a high-scoring game, unless it's a high-turnover game for Mac. And like you say, they got kid gloves on Mac. They're not letting him do anything.

I've never seen... Man, it's been a while. I mean, we had Brady for 20 years, so it's hard to remember. You're going back to when I was in college. And in college, we didn't have Belichick, so we would put people like Hugh Millen and Scott Zolak in the position to just air it out.

This Mack thing, he did it with Brissette too when Brady got suspended for deflategate and Brissette had to play. And they had that game where the Pats were underdogs. And then he was just very careful with Brissette. He knows how to do the game-managed QB thing. We found a bet that we really liked. It is an adjusted one on FanDuel. You could take the Pats to plus four and a half. So you're basically covered. If Mac Jones

self-combusts, you know, Jefferson, I think they're going to double Jefferson and make all the other guys beat them. But let's say KJ Osborne gets like a 75 yard or whatever. The Pats below the game. I think it's be close. Pats plus four and a half. And then we pulled the Pats

under 52.5. So 53 points would have to beat that. And you can put those two together. It's minus 115. Now we could throw in one more big favorite to try to get that down

to even. Like you mentioned the Chiefs. Put them in there maybe. Or the Dolphins. Maybe the Chiefs and the Dolphins. Or we could just ride that with the minus 115 with those. You don't like their KJ Osborne? You don't want to get KJ in there? I'm a

little worried about the Hockinson piece. There's maybe a separate one with KJ Osborne. Out of the Chiefs and the Dolphins, who would you bet your life on? Chiefs. The Texans are just like an annoying team. And the Dolphins are set up for some aggression,

like the whole two-a-conversation aside. They're going to have a day where some of the picks are caught and whatever. The Chiefs against this version of the Rams seem good night. The only way the Rams win games is if they can cover well enough to let the pass rush actually get home and there's no chance of doing that with their secondary Chiefs for sure.

Did you see any world in a million years where the Rams are going to be this bad? I mean, we knew there was like some serious super hangover potential, but did you ever in a million years expect this? I definitely thought they were going to be bad. This is embarrassing. This is, I don't want to question if Sean McVay is trying

because I don't think he isn't. However, there was so much work done to figure out how to make the Stafford offense good last year that I think, and a lot of it ended up with how do we help this offensive line that once these offensive line injuries compiled, they were kind of like, Oh,

we have no shot. The thing that is frustrating beyond like, all right, very bad injury luck, no Cooper cup. That sucks. Like there's a lot going down. The thing that I think was really difficult is the way this running back

position has been handled. Uh, it's so long ago. So it's easy to forget that this was what McVay was originally predicated on, but it was originally his ability to run the football. It was Todd Gurley, Offensive Player of the Year. They were an outside zone team.

The team's caught up to the outside zones. They became an inside zone duo team, and they were 12 personnel instead of 11 personnel, and everything was coming off. All the play-action passing was coming off the way they run the football. They spent a third-round pick on Daryl Henderson and a second round pick on Cam Akers. This year, they tried to trade Cam Akers for nothing, failed, and then because they couldn't do it,

cut Daryl Henderson. It's absolutely bemusing. And they completely have sacrificed the running game on the altar of the passing game. Once they got Stafford in there, we don't care about running the football well at all. And McVay would still do it on first and 10 because he's just coded to act that way that's the part where like a good coach should be able to handle that bad offensive line sure running back rotations absolutely a coach from

this tree like look at all the other coaches in this tree besides kind of Zach Taylor a little bit though he's been better in recent weeks they figure out the running game and McVay just just doesn't he just They run the same stuff. They run more outside zone than anyone else in the league still, and they run into bad fronts, and they get bottled up. And because of that, they don't have play-action passing, and there's just nothing there. So the shrug from the offensive coaching staff, to me,

is the most disappointing part of this season. Wow, that was a scathing rebuke. Listen, if you wanted to go be a broadcaster, go be a broadcaster. You can be the head coach of the team. I guarantee he would do a do-over on that. Alright, so we can do Pats plus 4.5, Pats under 52.5. That's minus 115. We could throw KC 1100 in there, and that takes it to plus 104. It gets it into the plus. I like it.

The only spot I feel a little sketchy about is Patriots plus 4.5, but I think you're okay there. We're going to do that. I also like the Pats straight up as well, which I think is a separate bet. Bills-Lyons. Bills that's held steady at 9.5. Have you

noticed? I'm much older than you. With gambling, it always used to be minus three. They'd be minus 10. Now it's like, they love to just mess with us with the minus two and a half. Give you the hook. They don't want us to have the three and the push. Like we had it last week with Atlanta.

No, Atlanta, Atlanta, Chicago. Atlanta was minus three. That one stayed at three. And then Atlanta, one by three. And that was like what I grew up with. It was like, oh man, I had Atlanta. It was a push. There are barely any pushes anymore.

This nine and a half, where it's like, if this was 10, I could start talking myself into the Lions. But at nine and a half, it's weird how that half point just lingers. But I do think the Lions can move the ball. I do think they can run the ball with Swift and Williams, right? The Bills are pretty good against the run, but I don't know. They have a little double barrel back. It's a Thursday. They've been stuck in Detroit. I am leaning toward the Lions, and yet I sent you that

stat. John Ewing had this, that the Lions are 3-18 straight up on Thanksgiving and 7-14 against the spread since 1990. And at some point, the baggage of a franchise has to factor in. Isn't that just because the Lions in general are that bad over the course of that? I guess 7-14 against the spread. Very possible, but how many

Thanksgivings have we had where this game starts early and the West Coast starts like 9-30, you talk yourself into a Lions bet and it's 10-0 by 10 o'clock. We haven't even had... We're still on the pastry section of Thanksgiving and the bet's already over. And I think I have a lot of scars with that. You're

younger than me, so maybe you don't. If Jeffrey Okuda were playing in this game, I'd be on the Lions plus 9.5. Okuda has been their solution to wide receiver ones all year. He's been really good. Wonderful. Excellent young player. Concussed out for this game, I'd be on the lines plus 9.5. Okuda has been their solution to wide receiver ones all year. He's been really good. Wonderful. Excellent young player. Concussed out for this game. The last dude you can lose for this.

Because I do not think the Bills have a Stephon Diggs answer without him. Amani Arouarie, AJ Parker, these are not quality enough players to handle Diggs 1-on-1. They would probably give even double team help to Okuda if you're out there. They're going to have to do it with the other corners. I don't think it's going to go well. So firstly, I like Diggs quite a lot in this game.

However, since the UCL injury, Josh Allen has been missing throws. It didn't end up mattering too much against Cleveland. If you watch Red Zone, you still see all the rushing touchdowns. You see the deep bombs that are connected. But underneath stuff, stuff that you have to just kind of guide it in,

coax it in, like the light stuff, he has been drastically missing receivers. Now, I don't know how UCLs work. So there's a chance that that's just like, you know, randomness. And I'm giving an explanation. Correlation is causation. Oh, it's because his elbow's hurt.

But he doesn't have the same swagger. I think that's, eye test wise, he seems like somebody who's hurt and a little frustrated. So I think I have to factor that in with this. Yeah, so Bills offensively, to me, are not the juggernaut we saw in the beginning of the season. And anybody's like, oh, they scored 30 points against the Browns.

See previous comment about anybody can run against the Browns. It's not real. It doesn't count. So that plus the health of Amon Ross St. Brown. Jared Goff is fifth in the league in EPA per dropback in games in which Amon Ross St. Brown. Jared Goff is fifth in the league in EPA per dropback in games in which Amon Ross St. Brown starts and ends the game. Fifth in the league in EPA per dropback.

He goes like, Alan Mahomes, two of Hertz, Jared freaking Goff. Because Amon Ross St. Brown is so, so, so important to this passing game. I've compared him on previous shows to the most mini Cooper Cup

of any of the mini Cooper Cups. Remember the whole, like, Justin Jefferson's gonna be a mini Cooper Cup and that like never happened because jefferson doesn't block so they don't use them in the same way amon ross and brown third down against zone against man down the field yards after catch block reverses running back touches he's the mini cup and when he when when the lions have him golf sustains drives because he finds him on third down they throw past the six on third down they're able to push the ball down the field. And then this is a good red zone offense

because of their running game and because of Jamal Williams. I like the Lions overs. I like Diggs and Amon Ross St. Brown overs. I probably am going to take Lions plus nine and a half before Thanksgiving, if we're being honest. But I prefer a little bit more Lions team total and the overall over than really trusting the Lions

just because of that Akuta inavailability. I do think that the Lions arrow is pointing up and the Bills arrow is pointing down. I think we're going to get a legit Lions Thanksgiving Day game. That's my bold prediction. So what's the Lions what's the spread just for their scoring? I saw over 20.5 earlier in this

week and I took that. I don't know I would imagine we're over 21 by this point. Vandals got the Lions total points at, yeah, over 21.5. Small juice to the over. I still like that. You could also do a little Lions with the Lions score two touchdowns in this game. Don't they have

those? Yeah, the total touchdowns for the Lions is over 2.5 right now and it's even on both sides. That touchdown that has actually been quite nice to me this year because teams like the Titans, the Lions, tend to be very, very good on the red zone. There are some reliably good red zone defenses like the Giants, like Denver,

that you can then fade the opposing offense. So those touchdown props are nice. But overall, the Lions, their willingness to go for it on fourth down, the way they trust their running game down low. Yeah, I like them. I like them to score points against the Bills. Make this a real game to watch. I'm going to be in Detroit for the game with Lions fans.

So I would really like for this to be like a relatively interesting game. What do you think about both teams to score one plus touchdown in each half? Ooh, so that's two total touchdowns in the first half. Just each of them get at least one touchdown each half. In each half. What's the juice? What do you think the juice is? I'd make that like plus 150.

Yeah, it's minus 128. So people must be on that. Not awesome. Not awesome. Yeah, the over-under for touchdowns for the Lions is two and a half, which isn't great. Total touchdowns scored for the Lions is two and a half which isn't great total touchdowns scored in the game

six and a half that seems pretty high that's that's that's quite high that's a lot of touchdowns especially like you know the Lions

are going to go for it inside the 10 yard line and not get it on fourth down the Bills are also bad the Bills are a bad red zone offense have been since when Josh Allen

was healthy just because they can't run the football. And so it becomes like jump balls to Dawson Knox and isolation routes to Stephon Diggs. That's just low percentage. Now, my vision is on the Lions scoring points. Which again, Thanksgiving Day, Detroit, I understand it. But with a Monroe St. Brown healthy, this is a good offense.

Okay. All right. I'll try to figure out some sort of scoring bet. And then what do we do with the Dallas Giants game? I don't want to stay away. We take Dalton Schultz receiving overs, and then we hold our nose, and we try not to bet anything else for the rest of the day.

Schultz, the Giants are an extremely heavy man coverage team and an extremely heavy blitz team. When Dak Prescott gets man coverage, he throws to two players, CeeDee Lamb and Dalton Schultz. When he gets blitz, he pretty much throws mostly to CeeDee Lamb, but Schultz is also up there as well, especially if you go back to last season's numbers. CeeDee is and Dalton Schultz. When he gets blitz, he pretty much throws mostly to CeeDee Lamb, but Schultz is also up there as well, especially if you go back to last season's numbers. CeeDee's going to have a super high total.

I don't mind looking at those lines. I don't mind looking at alt lines for him. Noah Dorey-Jackson in this game means that CeeDee's going to be a huge problem, 77.5. The Giants try to play with a safety over the slot. They do that against the Cowboys. CeeDee's going to eat them alive. But Schultz, to me, is the safer bet.

It was over 35.5 to start the week. It's at 38.5 right now. I like it up to 40. Schultz is Dak's second most trusted target. He's just been a little bit unavailable, and then Dak wasn't around, so the stats aren't there this year. But when they're playing together, Schultz is seeing the sort of

volume that projects to more than 38.5 receiving yards. Cowboys win by 11 to 20 points plus 270. Ooh. Cowboys win by 21 to 30 points plus 430. I would rather the 11 to 20 bracket. I kind of like the 11 too. It feels like almost like last week, the 24 to 6 type of win.

Yeah, and because the Giants are going to run the football, and so that's going to shorten the game a little bit. Cowboys have to be really, really efficient to get enough points to pull that over. Barkley, like rushing props to me are also interesting. He's at over 74 and a half. This Cowboys front is feast or famine, right? They're undersized

and they're all speed. This Giants offensive line is decimated. Don't get me wrong, but to me, they still have a diverse enough running game to get Daniel Jones involved that I do think that they have the opportunity to run it quite a bit and in doing so keep this game short such that Dallas can't really pour on the points and that's why spread wise

I'm a little bit shaky like minus 10 is a lot if the Giants sustain two six plus minute scoring drives running the football it's really hard to get to get over 10 unless Cowboys are perfect on offense so to me I like I, I like Schultz. I don't like much else in this game. But I think

you look at some Barkley rushing props. Jones, I don't like the rushing prop as much just because they play a little bit too much zone for that. But Barkley to me is an over lean at 74.5. Who do you have as your top five running backs right now? If you could have any running backs for a playoff game

in round two? You can take anyone in the league. Who would your five be? Is Pollard in the five is the reason I asked this question. No, I don't think so. Pollard is an extremely juiced up player. He's awesome. Ball in his hands, he's great. We talked about this a little bit on the Friday pod for the Ringer feed. He's not

experienced running between the tackles because they don't let him do it because Zeke's so good at it. Pollard for as dynamic as he is and he has he has ripped off runs between the tackles before he's not polished just because of reps like if Zeke missed eight games in 2020 Pollard would like potentially be the man right but I just he's not at that point yet um all right so would you would Barkley be in there I think think so. Chubb is one. Taylor is two. No question. I think Aaron Jones has to be up there with the season he's had this year. Jones

has been incredible. Barkley at four. McCaffrey feels like he should be the correct choice, but honestly, I don't think McCaffrey is 100% the athlete he was pre-injury. I think he's more like 90-92% the athlete he was. Trying to make sure I'm not missing anyone obvious. So the answer is Ramondre is the number five.

Thank you. That's great. Ramondre was one of my breakout players entering this year. And for a second there, I was like, there's no way they're doing Damian Harris again, right? And now at this point, I think it's pretty clear. Ramondre, big piece of that backfield, man. He's so good.

All right, so Cowboys, 11 to 20 points. Kind of like there's, for the Buffalo game, some Lions points. There's a way to bet on that one. And then doing straight up, Lions plus 9.5, Cowboys minus 10, Pats plus 2.5, that would be plus 595. Could also take the Pats money line, just go balls to the wall, Pats plus 116,

that gets it to plus 687. Yeah. I have already a few in pocket. I'll probably have a few more of just Pats money line with a Pats prop, right? With like a Ramondre Stevenson receiving over, with like a Mac Jones total passing under and stuff likeandra stevenson receiving over with like a mac jones

total passing under and stuff like that because this is going to be a game of the patriots can dictate and control so i like i like pat's money line as a parlor like the giants cowboys i just would not as everybody's too banged up that's not how thanksgiving gambling goes so lack you got to bet on something you can't not have three hours of no bet i might do the 11 to 20 i throw that in there. It's also we're in second time seeing each other, right? They have played before this season. We're starting to get to that era where there's adjustments and anticipations.

And that whole chess match is always tough to handicap. Give me your top three pies before we go. Number one is pumpkin cheesecake. I don't know if it counts or not, but we make it every year. My wife just made it. It's great. Number two, you ever had a strawberry rhubarb pie? Of course. I had a slap. I don't know if it counts or not, but we make it every year. My wife just made it. It's great. Number two, you ever had a strawberry rhubarb pie? Of course.

I had a slap. I fed every pie. Yeah. No pecan. No, apple's fine. I'll take a classic pumpkin pie for three. It's the season. You know what I'm saying? It feels nice. I got pumpkin, pecan, chocolate chess. Chocolate chess?

Chocolate chess. It's like a southern thing. It's like a chocolate pudding type thing. Oh, you might have to get out of the chocolate chess. Chocolate chess? Chocolate chess. It's like a, it's a Southern thing. It's like a chocolate pudding type thing. Oh, you might have to get out of the chocolate chess. I've never heard of this. It's like a delicious, hard chocolate pudding pie that's a Southern thing

and it is flat out delicious. Pictures are very encouraging. We're going to have to investigate this over the course of a winter month. Do some investigation. All right. Good luck betting. Good luck eating.

Good luck to the Eagles. I'll see you next week. Appreciate you, Bill. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that.

In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned.

Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, Peter Schrager is here. We're going to talk about the Sunday games. I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Solak,

just out of curiosity. It feels like the Niners and the Cowboys and the Eagles are now levitating above everyone else in the NFC. The Eagles are still the favorites. I said I like the Niners upside more, but I also know the injury stuff is there. He said the Cowboys, when Smith comes back, and just in general, just kind of built for January. So he kind of liked their upside the most and neither of us liked the Eagles.

How would you rank those three right now for who's still playing at the end of January? We're done with Minnesota after one loss, huh? I just think I'm just concentrating on those three those three i think niners won they've been there they've made these runs and even go back to 2019 i remember they started off red hot and then they lost a couple games to like baltimore and they lost to seattle on a monday night and then they go into new orleans and like jimmy g had to win that game and he hit kittle on a fourth and two like they've done it. They've gone on the road and won in Green Bay. I haven't seen this group of Dallas Cowboys win anything of great significance. I haven't seen anything from the Eagles actually of a game

that actually is significant. I've seen it from the Niners. They're so tough up front. I would actually put San Francisco as my number one team in the NFC right now. I would too. I don't trust the Debo-McCaffrey Kittle combo to play for eight straight weeks. That's fair. I think that's fair. Hey, Elijah Mitchell just came back and I'm watching that game Monday night and, you know,

McCaffrey, I think, is averaging like three yards a carry. Had like 30 yards. They traded multiple picks. I mean, they gave a bounty up for this guy and they haven't even used him yet. So, I think that's okay. I think it's okay if one of those guys

has to miss some time, whatever. They have the guys that can fill in and they've shown that over the last few years that they are the most resilient team when it comes to injuries.

The Cards, who we've shorted a few times this year, really discouraging Mexico City game. They have to fire an assistant afterwards because there's a groping thing. Second assistant that they fired in two years.

And it feels like that team is completely unraveling. And I went to go see how we could bet against them this week. Yes. And of course, they're home. Yeah, they're home. They're playing the Chargers. That line is now Cardinals by three. I'm so afraid of the Cardinals as an underdog.

We're going to stay away from them. We're not going to stay away from the New York Jets. The New York Jets finally made the QB change. It happened today. It happened this morning. The part of the thing that sucks about making picks and talking football when we're taping these Thursday mornings, in this case, Wednesday morning, is things can change, shift, whatever. And I actually thought they might be dumb enough to start Zach Wilson again. They did not. So what happened? Yeah. So the game was

obviously an epic failure on Sunday, but it's been all season. He is statistically the worst quarterback in football. He's had a really rough year. And what I think is really the story within that building, they didn't expect to be six and three going up to New England. They didn't expect to beat the Dolphins in the bills and games. They didn't expect to be where they're at. All these guys have exceeded expectations. They're all playing way over their heads and playing in a fantastic team-oriented way. And that includes everyone from the rookies, obviously, but CJ Mosley's having an all-pro season at linebacker. Swass Gardner is maybe the top three corner in the league right now. And then Quinn and Williams up front.

Their front four is awesome. It's unbelievable. And you talked to Sal about it. This defense is that legit. But their offense, they lost Elijah Vera, Tucker, and Brees Hall. I thought that was it. That's their best lineman, and that's their best skill position player. And these other guys have stepped up.

Carter's good. The offensive line's good. So all these players have risen to the occasion. One guy hasn't. Wilson. He hasn't improved. He hasn't shown any signs of improvement. Nothing. So this is already brewing as a, okay, hey, we're making this giant leap as a team, but the one guy is our quarterback holding us back. You come off that game Sunday, the two yards in the second half, 103 yards total, all this stuff. Those comments, I think that really, really resonated with a lot of people in a wrong way. And it showed a self-awareness that wasn't there. It showed a tone deaf mentality on this team that if you come out of that now, I originally was like, okay, this guy after a tough loss just gets to the podium, wants to act tough, wants to at least just not give an inch. But I didn't see a single Jets player come out after that and be like, no, Zach's our dude. Or any of the coaches be like, we've got Zach's back.

They were verbally sub-tweeting him. Moore's doing stuff. Garrett Wilson's got comments. All these guys are coming out. And I think this comes down not to just the coaching staff and thing and not just the player. I think from an entire organization standpoint, it's like you can't just roll him out on Sunday. We can't. We have to do something. So they made the decision. The people I've spoken to in that building are comfortable with the decision. They play the Bears on Sunday and Mike White, say what you want, that gave them a bit of a kickstart last year. They're hoping to get something out of them this week. I think the Jets are good. They're really

good. I think they're good. I think they're a good football team and their quarterback is so bad that it almost rendered them completely impotent. He's 23. He's several years younger than Burrow. He's younger than it almost rendered them completely impotent. You know, he's 23. Like, yeah, he's, he's several years younger than Burrow.

He's younger than, uh, you know, uh, Kenny Pickett is older than him. Kenny Pickett is obviously a first year guy. So I'm going to give him a pass and say, he'll grow into this thing.

But I'll tell you this during the draft, it was like Trevor Lawrence is hands down. Number one by March, everyone that I knew in that jets organization. And I know them well we're like fields lance mac no no no no no zach like they were sold and now the homes word was getting thrown around with him rogers was thrown around because of a couple flick of the wrist throws he had at byu and we can go back at it a million ways say well it was a covid season

it was this it was that bottom line is i'm not giving up on Zach Wilson over the longterm, but this is a major red flag and a big black eye for a guy that was number two overall pick. Well, the COVID drafts, because this happened in the NBA too, there was just, I think the most, you go back and you look and you're like, wow, how does Halliburton fall that far? Because people loved Halliburton, but nobody had a chance to interview him. Nobody had a chance to really like, and if they were working them out,

we didn't know about it. Like if they were in some secret masked up place and I, it just feels like the variance of it. I don't know how that ties into quarterbacks, but I'm sure it helps to spend real time with somebody you're about to draft. We've also seen though, this league is now messing up top 15 picks. Sal and I talked about it helps to spend real time with somebody you're about to draft. We've also seen though, this league is now messing up top 15 picks. Sal and I talked about it Sunday.

It's like 60% the last six, seven years. It's there's more pressure and more guys just, just kind of burning out or self combusting or whatever. I've never seen anything like it. The only thing that's worse in America right now is our American actor crisis. We just, we talked about this on the Prestige.

We did White Lotus for episode five on Sunday. I didn't realize that Theo James, the guy who plays Happy Cameron, they, Mallory and Joanna told me how he's British. And I'm like, what? We don't even get that guy?

He's British. I was like, this guy's good. He's British? He's British. The other one is British or Australian. The one who's Aubrey Plaza's boyfriend. It's a fucking crisis.

We should be talking about this like we're talking about the crypto crisis. You know, who said it? It was, I guess, this week, Quentin Tarantino came out and said that there are no great actors anymore because they're all just in Marvel movies and you identify with the character that they are

and you don't identify with the actor themselves. I don't think it's that crazy a comment. Now, whether or not that also has enabled more people of color and more opportunities, that's also true and it has. But I'll tell you what, I'm watching Knives Out. It was just on and I'm like, Daniel Craig's been in my life for 25 years.

Chris Evans has been in my life for 20 years. Michael Shannon's been in my life. Where's the next guy? Who's the next one? And you're right, I don't life. Where's the next guy? Like, who's the next one? And you're right. I don't know. How's that for a rant? Well,

I think it ties into the QB situation. It's not much different, right? Like, we're like, who's the next guy? Who's the next guy? And really, how many QBs

have we completely fallen head over heels in love with in the last few years? And I'll tell you, I'm watching Saturday night. I'm up and I'm watching USC, UCLA,

and Caleb Williams is throwing the ball. And it's a thing of beauty. It's like, he's got a missile and he's throwing it off schedule. And then I text some of these other GMs. I'm like, are you watching this? I'm like, yeah, but the real guy to watch is Will Levis down at Kentucky.

And I'm like, okay, I've seen him. I don't know. And then another one's like, I think actually Bryce Young, his calm, his poise. It's like his height is an issue. But so we're not gonna, there going to be this every single year. And eventually, there is going to be one that hits. But I don't think...

I mean, Joe Burrow is the last one that has truly actually been up to the expectations and he's exceeded them. But you go through guys like Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson, and then Justin Fields has had moments. But I don't know. I feel like we've been a couple years now, we haven't had that guy come out of the college game.

Yeah, but I guess Burrow, Herbert, Mahomes. Now, here's where the Tua fans would be like, what about Tua? I mean, he's certainly, when you think about where it was a year ago to where it is now, but we've also had a lot of misses, and it makes me sad because I like watching good quarterbacks.

So do I. So do I. And I hate watching bad football. You know, it's amazing. We're watching games this weekend and Sam Darnold's being rolled out there by Carolina. Sam Darnold's 24 years old. I feel like people are done with him. And it's like in any other generation, this guy wouldn't have even seen the field yet.

And we're already done with him as a quarterback. Right. What is he like two years younger than burrow? Yeah. And, and it's like, all right, I guess that's what we do.

We were onto the next, but that's, well, Jets and Panthers are two teams we were thinking about for a million dollar picks the Jets thing. So the bills have the bears have scored a lot of points except for the Washington game. They've been consistently in that 29 to 35 range

and fields can run around. They'll also score points for the other team. They have not played a defense like this Jets defense, which I got to watch because they played the Pats twice. And I was just blown away with how good they were. I really felt like anytime they needed to make a play, I felt like they made it and they ended up losing the game last week

because of a punt return. And then I think of this Bears offense, which, you know, especially if Herbert's not going to play, which it seems like he's not, or if he plays, he's going to be hurt. And if he does, it's going to be limited. But even Fields is coming off an injury now.

Fields is banged up. I think, you know, yeah, it's really hard to, you can do it as gimmicky. You can catch people by surprise, but we're now in week 11, week 12, and it's pretty hard to duct tape stuff together. And if you're like, here's our quarterback, he's going to complete 10 passes a game and he's going to run around. It's like, cool. Well, we're going to beat the shit out of him when he runs around. At some point there's diminishing returns to that. And I just think him against this Jets defense is going to be a nightmare for him.

Yeah. The question is if the Jets are getting a major downgrade at quarterback and this guy throws a bunch of picks, but I don't even see how that's possible. How is it possible to be downgraded? They're the worst quarterback in the league. So to me, it's like- He's going to make five plays. Exactly right.

So can the defense make a play? Can these Rod receivers get a couple of passes that they weren't getting ahead of time also? so to me and make five plays exactly right so can the defense make a play can can these rod receivers get a couple passes that they weren't getting ahead of time also the the crazy you know albert breer is a good reporter he he had this tweet yesterday it's almost like such salt in the wound for jets fans that like justin field stood up in front of the team and apologized for his performance in a game that he played awesome against atlanta but like if you're a jets fan hearing that you're like this guy's apologizing in front of the entire locker room for his performance. And you're like, all right, all right. We get it. Zach Wilson did the exact opposite of that thing. The field is the only

wild card in this thing. And he's been on fire. He's been breaking records with what he does. And I said it last week, I really don't like rooting against him. And I really like rooting for the Bears. They're a fun outfit right now, but I hear you. I think if you're trying to make a solid pick here, the Jets, if they have anything left in the tank, they're beating the Bears, a team that does not belong on the same field as them, as far as the offense versus the defense goes. Unfortunately, the line has moved to six. It's gotten because of Mike White? Minus 215. Yeah, it's had... Is that not crazy? I think a two-point impact.

Wow. minus 215. Yeah, it's had, I think, a two-point impact. It totally makes sense, though, right? Zach Wilson was that bad. If you watched the game last week, you'd be like, well, this guy's, this is never happening. It wasn't even the judgment. There's a third and one

at the end of the game there, and he throws it behind the sticks on a dump off. It almost is like he's not playing the same game that he had in the past. So yes, Mike White comes in there, confident, competent, more importantly,

and you might get an immediate lift. Well, our power lives have been just horrendous on Million Dollar Picks this week. For the year, we're down 3.443 million, but I'm still not worried. I know that's crazy, but I'm still not worried yet. I feel fine. I got that Headspace app and they do like the meditation and that British guy talks

to you. Like I was that depressed Sunday night after our performance. Well, we had it. So we hit on the Saints. We needed the Eagles to cover their part of the team. Their left tackle goes out the first quarter and the game's over by half. Darrylaw goes down. And then it's like,

oh, CBS left in like the third quarter and just never came back. And I'm like, what if there's a comeback for the Vikings? No, they knew. For the year, we are three and nine on teaser parlays, which are usually our bigger bets.

So if that just explains single-handedly, straight up 17 and 12. Underdog parlays are four and 18, which is right around there. Every one of them is like plus five hundreds. We're probably breaking even, but it's been the teaser parlays that have murdered us. So naturally I want to do a parlay.

Let's go right back to the well jets minus two 15. Solak recommends the chiefs against the Rams as a big money line over dolphins, Texans, just because the Texans can get weird and keep stuff close. Whereas the Ram season is over. Ram season's over. It's in Arrowhead. I don't know if it's, I mean, I know this, I don't know if it's out there yet. Stafford's not going to play this weekend. So it's likely going to be Perkins, the quarterback out of Virginia.

I think that's out. Yeah. Is it out there? And then they cut Daryl Henderson. Yeah. What was up with that why did that happen he's a free agent at the end of the year i think he you know he's he's he's he's been in and out of the line of other people and i think at mcveigh's point is this season's done you're a free agent if you want to go sign somewhere else you can he's ending up on the jaguars he'll do it and they want to get a look at a guy like ronnie rivers who's willing to play special teams and you know kieran williams is willing to do everything. Let's get guys out there who want to give it their all. If we're going to use anything for these last few weeks, let's see what

we got in this roster. So Daryl Henderson was not a part of the future plans. But yes, in no scenario do I see the Mahomes, Kelsey veterans on the Chiefs letting this one get out of hand and somehow losing to the Rams. Well, we can do Jets, Niners against the Saints. Do we trust them? Saints showed a little spark last week. Oh, we're afraid of the Saints. Saints showed me a little something last week.

Did they really? That game, the Rams are winning at the half. Saints come out, blew the doors off them in the second half. I know Stafford left at the field. Saints are still still the flicker of a heartbeat

in the NFC with a weird conference this year. I'm not so sure on that one. You definitely feel good. You think Niners just roll? I don't feel good. That's why I was asking it.

Well, I mean, there's the Cowboys on Thursday, minus 460, but they make me a little nervous as well. They've lost. They killed us last year. They were against the Raiders, but the Giants come in, have five key players out for an injury, short week. Cowboys feeling good, got the red kettle thing going. I don't know. I feel like the Cowboys is a safer bet than the Niners. Do we like the Jets? We don't just like the Jets minus six.

No, that's too much. I don't know if we like six. Yeah, I think that's too much too. I got to figure out the money line thing with them. What else do we like this week? Make your case for the Panthers over. I like the bleep it Carolina Panthers. Let's score some points. They had a terrible outing last week against Baltimore. They're going up against a Denver defense. That's very good.

It doesn't give up more than 20 points ever. Here's how I look at it. Sam Darnold's getting the start. He's a free agent next year. Bob McAdoo or Ben McAdoo, whoever's their offensive coordinator. I mix up the name every single time I say it. He's a lame duck in a lot of ways in that he's the offensive coordinator with Steve Wilkes right now. Steve Wilks is a lame duck in a lot of ways. And yet they have a chance to audition for everyone around the league and show what they have. Leave it all out there. This is one of those where if you're going to throw a pick six, that's okay. Let's at least try. Let's at least show something. I think they're going to have a willy nilly game as far as offensive strategy

goes. All sorts of things. Empty the bag. This is their time to do it. Oh, you think this is a kitchen sink game for Carolina? Kitchen sink game in a lot of ways. Not the season. Careers. There's nothing that David Tepper would love more than to see this team go on some wild run and make their team interesting

again. A, to make it a more attractive place for a new coach to want to come next year. Or B, that he could say, you know what? Steve Wilkes showed something towards the end. He's a local guy. The guys love him. Let's roll him out for another year. Let's see what we got. I think this is one of those deals where they score points. They at least try to score points. And if they don't, that Denver defense will feast and you'll get some defensive touchdowns. We'll get some points. Wait a second. Are you telling me Steve Wilks has reached the guys love him? Guys love him. Point of the season for stillborn Steve Wilks.

Let's go. The guys love him? Guys love him. Players like him. I don't know if the fans or the owners necessarily rushing to sign him to a new deal, but they play inspired football for him. Well, let me ask you this. What if we took the over-under of that game down to 31.5, which is minus 230? Let's go. We need one of these. Can we get 32 points out of that game? The high-flying Carolina Panthers. We have Jets minus 240

with Denver Carolina minus 230 over 31.5. That is plus 103. The ugliest two football games you could imagine. You and I just rooting our asses off watching it with the CBS 7 team and the Fox 11 team. We're in. Let's go. I'm trying to think. Could we even get...

I don't want to get too ambitious. I mean, we could try to say it's good they're going to score 40 points combined in that game. But Denver, I don't think... Could Denver get to 20 points in a nine-quarter game? What do you make of Hackett? We should call... This should just be a

new segment. The Ugly Tree Bet of the Week. This parlay fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch. Every single branch. Here we go. Carolina over down to over 31.5 adjusted with

Jets minus 240 plus 103. The Ugly Tree Bet of the Week. It 103 the ugly tree bed of the week it's so ugly i the the denver offense it's so funny like i'm a big hackett guy and i thought that he did some really good things in green bay this has been an utter disaster in denver he gives up play calling duties to click kubiak yeah nathaniel hackett's one thing his offense joy so i had another coach text me to be like, so what exactly is he doing then if that's not what his job is in Denver? That is his whole purpose

was to draw up these plays and call the plays. Sure enough, they go out there and they lose to the Raiders last week and you're just like, gosh, it could not get any worse for them. Do we just like Carolina just to win that game instead with the Steelers in a parlay? Moneyline? Carolina the uglyers in a parlay? Moneyline?

Carolina, the Ugly Tree underdog parlay? I kind of like the Steelers this week. I want that game to be like 41-40 and you and me like dancing the waltz in the middle of the street. All right, so you really want to go. You want to go Ugly Tree bed of the week. Because I think there could be a couple pick sixes

if they don't have a big offensive day, either team. I think that could definitely happen. All right, the Ugly Tree Bat of the Week. That's looking like Jets are up to minus 240 money line. Jesus. That's gone from minus 190 to minus 240. Mike White confidence.

Yeah. Underdog Parlay of the Week. We like the... I like the Steelers. Anybody else you like for underdogs? are nominees. Browns plus three and a half against the Bucs

or money. Stay away. Cards plus three and a half or the money against the Chargers. I'm staying away from them. Jags plus four and a half or the money at home against Baltimore. I was mildly intrigued by them. And

then the Baltimore advanced stats of the stuff they're doing the last few weeks is pretty alarming. Yeah. And Roquan Smith's been a sensation in two weeks. He's played. I know. And then, uh, Panthers plus two and a half for the money. And then I really like the Steelers against the Colts. I think the Steelers are okay. Yeah. I don't think they're bad. We've picked them the last few weeks, so I've watched them a lot. And I feel like they've lost last week to Cincinnati, but they were in that game. It was 27-23.

And they were in there late. Since he played well. Since he was really good. That's a nice job by them. Yeah, it really was. In Pittsburgh. But I agree. I think those Pittsburgh rookies are playing well.

TJ Watts all over the field. And I'd be fine doing that. I also still like Carolina. I feel like they can win also. Bengals are minus two and a half at Tennessee. And I think Cincy's legitimately good. And yet I don't trust them at all

to win that game. And the Titans, I'm just so tired of getting my teeth kicked in by them. They're a stay away to me. They just patch it together. That's what they do. They're tough. They're good. Both teams are really good. We do oohs and ahhs over the Bills and the Dolphins

and the Chiefs and both those teams. Titans and Bengals and the Ravens. Very good. A very good AFC. Alright, we'll take a break and then we're going to do Million Dollar Picks. Alright, it's time for the Million Dollar Picks. Do you want to do your soliloquy on why you're worried about my health and Sal's health and everyone's health these next four days? I'm concerned about both of you guys.

The next 96 hours might be the most intense sports stretch we've ever had as an American sports viewing audience. It starts with Thanksgiving and three football games. I want you guys to budget your time and budget your energy. You can only watch those three games. I don't want to hear you're watching the Maui Invitational or there's some Blazers, Sonics game on it late at night that you have to watch because you and whoever are charting the angles or whatever you do when you watch those NBA games, you don't have time for that

because the next morning is Friday and there is USA England. You're going to be all in you're going to be watching right there that is a huge sports weekend and then we get to saturday and you've got michigan ohio state followed by the iron bowl followed by usc versus notre dame and then sunday a full sunday slate capped off with eagles packers at night there is too much sports and i'm worried about you guys you guys jumping the gun and caring about some random college soccer match or something or betting on some ridiculous NBA game out in the West Coast.

There's no time for that. You need to pick your spots and space it out. We could put on 20 pounds and lose a lot of money this week. You need to be really smart. Sal is going to be like Hannibal Lecter in one of those glass booth rooms where they have to bring him the food and handcuff him to the side. That's how insane he's going to be. Million dollar picks, week 12. We're down a little. I'll tell the total at the end. I don't want to put it at the top. We hit a dark place last Sunday.

We thought we were finally going to just absolutely clean house. And the Vikings were like, hold on guys. Don't enjoy this even for five seconds. And we ended up splitting last week. We lost 350,000 last week. Thanksgiving picks this week. I'm going to do at the end. First, let's go to Sunday.

Okay. We have 100K on the Jets money line with the Carolina adjusted over 31.5. That is plus 103. Here's the case. The case, Mike White, White Lotus creator Mike White, now in his Jets starting QB. He has to be better than Zach Wilson. The very least.

And then make the case for Carolina to score points quick. Yeah, Sam Darnold's going to be a free agent at the end of the year. Steve Wilks and McAdoo, those guys are trying to show what they're going to do. Just let everything out of the bag. Play loose. Yeah. For some points.

Little kitchen sink game. We're calling this the ugly tree parlay. Little kitchen sink game with Mike White and Sam Darnold trying to score points. That's how we drew it up. 100K on that. Underdog parlay. We're going to go back to Carolina against Denver with the Steelers in Indianapolis. We just love betting against Indianapolis

and being terrified by zombie Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan just haunting us. 50K plus 379 on that parlay. So that's our underdog parlay. We have a little special FanDuel boost option for Thanksgiving. How about this? Pat's adjusted line plus four and a half.

Ramondre Stevenson, 25 yards receiving or higher. Okay. Hawkinson, 40 plus receiving yards or higher. You figure Pat's are going to double Jefferson. That's what they do. They'll put their best cornerback on Thielen and it'll be a Hawkinson-Osborne, can you guys beat us type

of game. You know the game, Clint. I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. He's been doing it for 20 years. I love it. It's the Mario Manningham strategy. Let Manningham beat us.

They think that's going to be around plus 450 after they do the Thanksgiving boost. Ramondre, does he catch the ball? He sure does. Okay. Yeah, he does. I picture him just a bulldozer Mike Tolbert just running people over, but okay. All right. No, I mean, if you've seen Mac Jones's next-gen stats

charts, it is just quick to the right, quick to the left, quick little over the middle, and nothing big. They will not take the training wheels off Mac Jones, and I appreciate it because if they win this game, they're going to be 7-4. That brings us to Thanksgiving. We're staying away from Cowboys-Giants.

Too many injuries. Staying away from Bill's Lions. Just afraid. Just enjoy it. Just afraid of it. Enjoy the game. We don't need anything on it. Just enjoy it.

You know what we need? We need a nice big appetizer. The best thing about Thanksgiving is it's not just an appetizer. It's usually something awesome, right? Before the turkey. That's what my mom will bring out, like the pasta course. My mom's Italian.

Buffalo chicken dip. Yeah, just like major food. So our little appetizer is going to be a big appetizer with that Pats game. We're putting $500,000 on an adjusted Pats spread. Pats plus four and a half.

Okay. With the under adjusted to 52 and a half. That is minus 115. We're going to throw the Chiefs in there as well. They're minus 1200. That'll boost that to plus 102. Chiefs over the Rams. We don't see any

world where the Rams beat the Chiefs. The Rams have packed it in. Who's starting at QB for them this week? It's likely going to be Perkins out of Virginia, an undrafted guy who they like, but he's a mobile guy. No one's seen anything. We'll see. I don't know. Perkins.

Chiefs are one game up on everyone in the AFC. They're not messing around. We're putting 500K on that. It is plus 102. Pats plus 4.5. Pats plus four and a half. Pats under 52 and a half. And the Chiefs just to win. And then our big bet.

We're betting $777,000 in honor of our guy, Jim Creighton. Pats plus 116. Okay. To beat the Minnesota Vikings. The case would be. Just straight up. Minnesota left tackle is out. Darasol's not playing.

Pats have had the number one defense by DVOA since week four. They have been able to pressure everybody. It's a little bit similar to what Dallas was able to do. Kirk Cousins, motionless quarterback. Belichick loves that. And I think the Pats will squeak this out. And I think they're going to do. Kirk Cousins, motionless quarterback. Belichick loves that. And I think the Pats will squeak this out. And I think they're going to win.

Not to mention, Kirk Cousins, prime time. All eyes. Belichick, short rest. Unbelievable stats on that. And I'm not out on this Minnesota team.

I just think these are two bad matchups in a row. A little like the Bengals the first two weeks when they had TJ Watt and Micah Parsons. Everybody freaked out that the Bengals were done. And they weren't. They just had bad matchups. The beauty. A little like the Bengals the first two weeks when they had TJ Watt and Micah Parsons. Everybody freaked out that the Bengals were done

and they weren't. They just had bad matchups. The beauty of this is if Minnesota loses, they're 8-4 or they're 8-3. Yeah, they're fine. They're fine.

And also, they're still winning their division. The Rams lost three straight in November last year. They won the Super Bowl. It's not the end of times if they lose two home games.

It's just, it's not great. All right. So that's our Jim Creighton special. $777,000. P's plus one 16, uh, to win. And we are down for the year. Do you want to know what we're down? No, it's, it's bad. It's bad, but we're going to win some back. I'll tell you next week what we're down. It's not a good number. I go to really dark places on Sundays. I don't want to have that on Thursday. We are going to win. We are going to be in a good place. And you and I are going to be texting just exclamation marks. And Kyle's going to be

texting us exclamation marks. And then we're going to be doing let's go. And we're going to get going. And I feel really good about it. And the thing is, now we're being cautious with million dollar picks because in the old days when we were losing, we would have thrown in Team USA against England and worked everything out. We're not doing that. How about Portugal, Ghana? Should we? Not happening. Those are the million dollar picks. Thanksgiving edition for week 12. Peter Schrager, good to see you. Have a great holiday, man. All right. Mike Birbiglia is here. He has a new one-man show called The Old Man in the Pool that I saw when it was in L.A., and now it's in Broadway.

So explain to me why L.A. then Broadway? Is it like working out the kinks? Like you can't start right away on Broadway? What's the thought process? It's so funny. It's not. It was, in hindsight, it was so not thought through.

Like people ask me that a lot. I go, I don't know. The last time I did the show, my last show was called The New One. It's on Netflix if you want to watch it. And it was all about having a child, how I never wanted to have a child. And then I had a child,

about all the ways I was right, and then I was wrong. And I did that one off Broadway and then on Broadway Broadway and then we brought it to the Amundsen CTG downtown Los Angeles and then this time around they just said hey do you just want to bring your new show your next

show here first and we just said sure like it was a gorgeous theater Mark Taper Theater, downtown LA. It's just gorgeous. And so it just didn't seem like any reason not to do it. And so I came out, and we had a great time,

and then some producers, Broadway producers, came out and said, we'd like to bring this to New York. And then it just so happened that a show got moved from Lincoln Center to the spring and they had nothing in the theater. And so they were like, hey, you could do the Vivian Beaumont Theater, which is like literally like one of the most beautiful theaters in the world. Like it's it's actually a lot like the Mark Taper was a thousand seats. It's like 200 seats bigger. Like no seat is farther than like

50 feet or something. It's gorgeous. It's like three quarters in the round. And it's been it's just been a trip, you know, like, I mean, I'm, you know, the shows that you saw the show, it's like all about death and mortality and the reviews are great and everything. But for me, I'm always just like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I wrote a show about death. I'm waiting for the death on the other end of my career, basically. What's the ideal venue for a show like that? Cause I saw it in person. I thought it was awesome, but it was not a giant theater, right? It felt pretty intimate. Yeah. Felt like you were connected to basically anyone who was in there, but like, can you, can you go too big?

Or is it just like a different kind of show? It's like, like you couldn't do, you know, like a basketball arena. Like what's like the limit? So for me, like you look at like the Chicago theater and for me, that's like 3000 seats. For me, that's the limit upon, you know, at a certain point, if people are so far away, like one time I was, I saw Neil Young at Madison Square Garden and I had pretty good seats and I was still looking at the screen. You know what I mean? Right. At a certain point, you just go, if you're looking at the screen,

you shouldn't be at the show. Right. And I feel the same way. Like I, what was it? Dane Cook started like the basketball arena thing for comics. And I never, and people would go and it would sell out and they would sell multiple nights. Now a lot of people do it that way. But I always thought that kind of defeated the purpose of what if it was like to see a comic or a comedian or what you're doing. There's an intimacy to it. I remember seeing, I saw Seinfeld and Jay Leno in the 80s in Connecticut at a club that was like 100 people.

Wow. a hundred people. And it was like incredible, you know? And then at the same time you could see Seinfeld, you know, in any basketball arena, it'd be a different experience, but there's something about like feeling like you could almost walk onto the stage that I think it's like a different energy. Right. For me, like the best, the best audience experience I've ever had is at the comedy cellar in New York city, which, for my money, I think is the best club in the world. I've gone to a lot of clubs. And it's like 150 seats on McDougal Street. And on any given night, Ray Romano will pop in.

A few weeks ago, I saw Chris Rock will pop in. It's wild. And for me, that's amazing because you feel like you're essentially in someone's living room. For me, that's amazing because you feel like you're essentially in someone's living room and the funniest person on the planet is just getting up and talking about their family or politics or whatever. You go like this is a it's unbelievable. And then when you scale out, when you scale out, I just think that it's all about like it's all about creating a situation where like with my show, it's like the design is done by this Tony Award winning designer, Beowulf Barrett. And the sound is done by this guy, Kai Harada. It's perfect.

So like every the bigger you get, the more you have to calibrate it and like make sure it's all the best stuff so that the audience has the best experience. I'm obsessed with that though. It's funny you should ask that because I'm actually, I'm obsessed with what the audience's experience is because ultimately what you want it to feel like is when you saw it at Mark Taper, where you're laughing with a group of people and that's part of what makes it magical is that you're laughing with the group of people, but you're also close enough to the performer that you feel intimate with the performer. Yeah. And you, I mean, you mentioned like the, the sound and the light, like all of it's subtle, but really smart. Like I was like, Hey, it's an experience, but it's not this overpowering experience. Every decision is carefully made. And then the stuff you're doing physically,

you know, you're not like a pratfall comedian, but you're using your body in certain ways. And you're lying down at some points, there's like this little ramp wall behind you that you're not like a pratfall comedian, but you're using your body in certain ways and you're lying down at some points. There's like this little ramp wall behind you that you're kind of bouncing against a couple of times. Yeah. So you're moving around in a way that I'm not losing interest, that you're not just like sitting on a stool for an hour.

So I'm sure you like probably looked at some one man shows from the past and probably picked stuff that worked, didn't work, things you didn't like, things you liked and just kind of came up with your own version of it. Well, yeah, it's like I like I started writing these things. This is my fifth solo show. So the first one was in 2008. It was called Sleepwalk With Me. And I was really, really, because Nathan Lane presented it and it was, it really like put me on the map in New York to, to be allowed to do these things. Cause like, you know, not a lot of people are able to even,

you know, get an audience to show up to a solo show. It's, you know, and, and so when I did that show, I saw like all the shows on and off Broadway, there were solo shows.

And I saw like, I really like this designer. I like this director, I like this. And I started working with my director that were solo shows. And I saw like, I really like this designer. I like this director. I like this. And I started working with my director, Seth Barish. And I basically, I saw the show that he did called The Tricky Part by Martin Moran. It was not a comedy. It was very, very serious. But I was like, that's the aesthetic I want, which is to say that the design elements, we always want the design elements to augment what's happening already as opposed to overpowering them you know sometimes you see movies especially you know you probably watch a

lot of sports documentaries where you go come on just get out of the way and can we just watch michael jordan like yeah i'm not naming names of documentaries but like certain ones you just go come on just get out of the way the footage speak for you know a great documentary that sports documentary that i actually watched last night is uh solo free free solo yeah so last night i watched free solo and it's like they that director did an amazing job of just like show us the goddamn footage. Right. Like this guy climbs up mountains without harnesses. Like just show us that a lot. Well, I remember growing up,

they used to, the early days of HBO, they used to run this Cosby special that he did all the time. Where he sat on the stool. Yeah. And that was like his version of a one man show. And there was something compelling about it where I don't really feel like he even moved around.

And it was just like a couple cameras. And he was just at the peak of his powers as a comic at that point. And I remember being mesmerized. But then there were other ones. I never got the Spalding Gray thing, but a lot of people loved it, right? But I just, for whatever reason, it wasn't for me. But the evolution of it, one of the things I'm interested with you is how do you

decide this is the direction I'm going with versus being the traditional comic who just works on a set every year I change my act and whatever. What's the most appealing thing about this format to you that resonated with you? So I just, I wanted to make, when I was in college, I wanted to make movies and write plays. And that's what I was studying. Yeah. I'm obsessed, you know, obsessed. I was obsessed with Woody Allen movies, obsessed with James L. Brooks movies, you know, all those 70s films, Altman, you know, Chinatown, that whole era of of movies just like really hooked me and and then I got out of college and I was like oh I guess like you can't really sign up there's no application process to

be a screenwriter it's just not where are you living at this point uh I was at Georgetown and I was uh so I lived in DC with my girlfriend and then I moved to New York basically because I was like, all right, there's no jobs as a screenwriter, but I I'm working the door seating people at the Washington DC improv comedy club. And so I was learning a lot. Like I was like a sponge. Like I was just like, Oh, you know, whatever Chappelle would come in or Margaret Cho would come in or, or George Lopez and Brian Regan. And I would just just like, oh, you know, whatever. Chappelle would come in or Margaret Cho would come in or George Lopez and Brian Regan. And I would just be like, oh, I mean, I would learn so much. And then I would ask them tons of questions.

And so that was like comedy college for me. And so at a certain point, I was like, oh, OK, I guess, you know, it's like that thing of like, you know, if you ask enough questions, then you go like, oh, I guess I could try to be an opening act anywhere that'll have me. So, yeah, I just started cold calling. I mean, I was like a telemarketer for myself. Like, I'm just like cold calling clubs like all over the country. Hey, I'm Mike Birbiglia. I want I'm a comedian. I work at the Washington, D.C'm Mike Birbiglia. I'm a comedian. I work at the Washington DC Improv,

whatever. And I just drove my mom's station wagon around the country to the worst gigs, just the worst. I mean, what's so funny is I'm working with a vocal coach right now, and we do exercises and warm-up exercises. And she's like, it was funny because she goes like, oh, it's funny because you're projecting. When you're looking over here, you're doing this thing where you're projecting behind you to the people over here. And I go, yeah, I'm not trained in that. It's just literally I've played the worst venues in the world. Like I've performed in cafeterias and like made it work. Right. You know what it's so yes then i moved to new york and then i sort of merged stand-up comedy and and and storytelling playwriting into this thing

that's how it happened yeah any comic i've ever talked to they always say the most underrated in a good way in a bad way part of the whole job is how many terrible places you play and how it's almost like you block it out of your mind it's like this traumatic in a good way and a bad way. Part of the whole job is how many terrible places you play. It's unbelievable. And how it's almost like you block it out of your mind. It's like this traumatic thing that you just repress and you never think about again. The time you're in the Holiday Inn in Rochester and a wedding showed up

and seven terrible things happened and you just kind of, that's it. You try never to think about it again. I remember one time I showed up at a college and it was like midnight gig. I'm like, midnight? How come it's at midnight? you try never to think about it again i remember one time i showed up at a college and that and the uh it was like midnight gig i'm like midnight what how come it's at midnight i show up and they had me in a in a in the center of a walk-a-thon for cancer yeah and i'm and i'm literally there's a people walking all night and i'm supposed to sort of like like perform comedy like an

oscillating desk fan, you know? And it was just, and you make it work. You just go out. Yeah. This is what this is. And that's why, like, it's so funny. I was at the salary comedy show the other night and Ray Romano came in and, and I'll see him. And by the way, his, his new stuff is amazing.

People have a chance to see him. He's so good. And, and I feel like that's the common bond. Like, I don't know Ray that well, but I know he's performed in cafeterias and gymnasiums like I have. And we have that common bond. Like we've all done these hell things. So the, with the, with the one man shows, how, how long are we talking, carving out whatever you want to say, making the material, testing it out? How do you test out a one man show compared to if you're testing out, like when somebody does a normal act, they get to test little pieces at it, right? They'll go and

they'll work, go to the same club for five straight days and they'll work on the same 15 minutes, whatever. But you're doing a one man show. You can't really do that. So how do you do it? So it's both like I like, first of all, the first year or so I'll perform in like comedy clubs and rock clubs and I'll just call it the same thing that my podcast is called, which is working it out. It'll be just Mike for bigly working it out. And so people know who are on my email list and stuff, they know that's not the finished show because that's what I always call it. So this one was called Working It Out. And then-

That's a pretty big leap of faith to take in 2022 when everything's screenshotted and grabbed before it's done. No, I know. I know. I mean, it is a leap of faith because that's true. But I feel like I've, I don't know, for years I've flown under the radar enough that nobody's done that to me. But I know like Chappelle, for example, locks up people's phones and stuff. There's people like that who are so high profile

that they have to do that. And fortunately i mean i haven't hit that point yet but it's uh but but yeah i mean it's yeah so i work out the in clubs and i honestly like like in the show for example like you know the the things that were in the initial incarnation are like swimming at the yMCA pool as a kid and swimming as a YMCA pool as an adult and how much I hated it. And, and wrestling, joining the wrestling team in high school and how much I hate how terrible I

was at that. All that stuff was sort of in the initial incarnation of it. And then I'm just working out the punchlines is like, what if, you know, a lot of comedy I feel like is figuring out the Venn diagram of what you think is funny and what the punchlines is like what if you know a lot of comedy i feel like is figuring out the venn diagram of what you think is funny and what the audience thinks is funny and then finding that middle in between and then going oh okay that's what i'm gonna talk about more

is that that that's where because the whole thing is just a communal experience like like this show the thing that's been wild about this show is it's all about death and so i've had like really intense conversations with people this woman came in la to the show and she goes you know when i was at the show like my dad died a few years ago and i felt like i was laughing with my dad you know and i'm just like that's great like to me like comp like the comedy that i like the most is stuff where the person is talking about stuff that is kind of taboo or that you wouldn't bring up in a social situation with a stranger. But then fundamentally, what you're doing is bringing it up with strangers. Right. To me, that's what's fun about it.

That's what's exciting about it. Yeah. I was going to say you thrive on not the fully uncomfortable, but like the partially uncomfortable conversations and things we might have with a few people, but not with people we don't know. Yeah. It's funny.

Like the, my favorite joke in the show right now to perform is about my grandfather. He died. He was, he, uh, he died from heart attack when he was 56 and he worked in a bodega in Bushwick. And one day, a regular customer came in and goes,

how's it going, Joe? And he just keeled over the counter and died. And I go, which is sad, but it's also a pretty funny response if you think about it. In some ways, he was the original comedian of the family. That's an extraordinary level of commitment. But like, I love performing that because it's like,

no, we can laugh at this. Like we have to. This is ridiculous. Is the Netflix factor with your stuff, is that 100% a good thing? Is it 90% a good thing? You're opening the material you've done to just swaths of people, right?

All kinds of people. People who are just clicking around. You don't know what their intentions are. They stumble across your thing. They might like it. They might not even be paying attention fully. I feel like with your stuff, you really have to be in on it.

It's not something you're doing while you're also like looking through instagram you know what i mean no i i i was very lucky with the timing of netflix because because i was early on in my career i wanted to be on hbo because that's the that was always the cool place to be and there's no commercials and i think fundamentally commercials fuck up uh comedy specials yeah like it just it movies too you know like you can't be like geico in the middle of a fucking like experience you know because it's like a trance you're trying you have someone in a trance and there's like and it's like you know honey nut cheerios have oats or whatever it's not great for comedy and and that experience so i was like so early on my career was like oh i got

i want to get a special on hbo but i wasn't i wasn't edgy in the way that hbo viewed things as edgy like i actually do view what i do as edgy in a certain way in the sense that that if it doesn't go well it really doesn't go well like to me that's what edgy is yeah you know and back then it was edgy was just like oh it's just the person who like you know like carlin or something he curses a lot and isn't that and i love carlin but like it's just like a kind of a two-dimensional way of looking at edgy and and uh so i never was on hbo and then netflix comes along and they're basically like buying up libraries of comedy specials and just throwing them up on streaming so all of a sudden

i had a special for comedy central in 2008 uh called what i should have said was nothing and i want to say streaming came around like got popular in like 11 or 12 or something yeah 12 all of a sudden people they had bought up this special that no one had watched on comedy central and millions of people are watching it and quoting it back to me in the streets and coming out i was like ah this is a dream come true it's like best case scenario. So Netflix became like the HBO I had always dreamed of. And then after that, I had Thank God for Jokes and My Girlfriend's Boyfriend and the new one on there. And maybe this one, I don't know. We'll see. I mean, I don't know what the hell is going on in streaming right now. It's

wild times. Well, I totally agree with you about breaks interrupting the flow and let's take a break. So you're coming up in that Comedy Central generation when everybody who did comedy for more than a year got at least a half hour Comedy Central special. And it was the t-shirt cannon just shooting them out. And I never knew which ones to watch. And you're right. Yes. Netflix comes in and gives some semblance of at least, all right, if it's on Netflix,

there has to be a reason it's on Netflix. It's just not. But going back to the days when I grew up with the HBO days and the young comedian specials and things like that, and you felt like, man, if somebody's on this young comedian special, and things like that. And you felt like, man, if somebody's on this young comedian special, they're going to be pretty good, right? They would have three or four comedians and you look at all the people that passed

through that vortex. Amazing. Then Letterman was there in the 80s. Last stage is a Carson. But then Comedy Central kind of took it over. And now it feels like Netflix, I would say, owns the real estate, right. For the most part.

Right. They certainly bought. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. They own the real estate because they paid for it. Yeah, it's true. Like they, yeah, they, uh, yeah. I mean, I, but I don't know.

Yeah. They definitely, yeah. Between Ali Wong and John Mulaney and Rock and everybody like. Chappelle. They, yeah, Chappelle, they bought up tons of comedy specials. And, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know where it's all, where it all lands, to be honest, all that stuff. But it's been ultimately good.

I think Netflix has been good for comedy in the sense that there's no commercials. And also, the algorithm actually is friendly to people like me. Like, Mulaney blew up a few years ago. He got so big. And then all of a sudden, a lot of the people watching Mulaney specials, the algorithm sent them to me, which is great. It's very good for me.

A little algorithm action. Come on over here. Come on over here, algorithm people. You're going to really like this. Who's your class? Gaffigan, too. Gaffigan's another one. Because he's pretty clean. I'm pretty clean.

His algorithm sending people to me is unbelievable. So who's your class? I always love to ask comics this. In the sports you have, like in the NBA, LeBron came in with Wade and Carmelo and all those people

and it's kind of like his little mini generation. Who makes up your little mini generation. Who's who makes up your little mini generation? So mine is me and Dimitri Martin and Kevin Hart did new faces together. Wow. And yeah. And then it's so funny because I think a lot of people pair me with like Gaffigan and Brian Regan, but actually like I'm,

I'm like a decade younger than that group, but like one of my specials started airing at the same time. Um, and, um, yeah, but the, you know,

the big one and then Mulaney too, like Mulaney is like five years younger than me, but sometimes people pair me with him cause he and I toured together for a long too. Like, Mulaney's, like, five years younger than me, but sometimes people pair me with him because he and I toured together for a long time. And, yeah, and then Schumer. I mean, yeah, Amy Schumer was in that space. She was younger than me, but, yeah. It's, yeah, I mean, what's wild,

I think one of the strangest things about comedy in my experience, because I've been in it, you know, I've been doing it since the 90s. And it went from being this thing that was like a niche night and and becoming people thinking what what comedians say is important. So like it's weird. Sometimes people ask me to weigh in on different comedians saying controversial things. I'm like, yeah, it's like I'm not I'm not in charge. I'm not accountable for what that person says. And I'm not in charge of what that person says. They can say whatever they want. Like, like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know,

like at a certain point, uh, comedy in some people, some people credit this to kind of for better or worse to the brilliance of Jon Stewart. Cause they'll go, well, the problem is Jon Stewart was so good

at having kind of a point of view that carried over into people's political beliefs and the way they view the world and like everything. And all of a sudden people were like, we should look to comedians for how we think about it. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's definitely not what we should do. Yeah. It's, it's weird how that comes and goes, right? Because I think people did look like to, to Lenny Bruce at that a little bit. And they looked at prior for that a little bit. And they looked at George Carlin for that eventually, especially the later part of his career. But then there were other comedians. Why would I have ever used their thoughts to

shape my own worldview? A lot of the times we looked at them as just like, make me laugh, comedian boy, or whatever it was. And something definitely shifted, you're right, over the last seven, eight years. And I don't know where it goes. I know you get that question all the time and I don't even want to ask it, but I don't know. I don't know what the next evolution of it is. Even like watching Chappelle and SNL this week. And he did his monologue and some people thought it was good. Some people were horrified and it just, it just feels like everything like that now has to have some sort of massive reaction that goes nine different ways versus just somebody coming out and being funny well it's funny because like i i was playing like nashville recently i was at the ryman which is amazing holy cow if you

ever have a chance to go to ryman that's that's a place to see a show right and this guy i ended up in this conversation with this guy who's like trump supporter i think he was i want to say he's driving me to the airport or something like that this nice guy he goes what do you do i'm a comedian he goes uh you can't say anything anymore i go you can't i go you can you can i go i mean this is my job like i say a lot of stuff that you probably think you can't say, but you can. You can actually say whatever you want. It's just that, first of all, no one's getting arrested for it. I mean, Lenny Bruce got arrested.

Like, we have to zoom out on history here. Like, what? We used to live in an era where people would say things that offended christians or offended this group or that group and the people fucking get carded out and they and then go to the jail right and so it's like let's just all calm down people aren't getting arrested people are getting attacked online and defamed by strangers and because there's amplification of those things that is unprecedented in the internet age we've never seen anything like this in our lives it's off putting and it's also misleading because you go like oh everyone's mad about xyz it's like actually

everyone's not mad uh like a few people are mad and then like a thousand people amplified that and yeah and then cnn ran a article that says xyz monologue is controversial it's like is it controversial i'm not sure that's i might want to fact check that uh that headline well i love the news stories when it's like, you know, whatever Chappelle monologue causes a big ruckus online. And then the sources are just tweets. No,

I know. And just like tweets and random people. It's like 12 tweets in a row of people I've never heard of. And they're like, these people are upset. I'm like, I don't know who these people are. Yeah.

No, no. It is. Yeah. It's very strange times. I don't know where it goes are. Yeah. No, no. It is. Yeah. It's very strange times. I don't know where it goes. When you're, when you're doing the,

uh, when you're doing a one man show and you're doing it night after night after night, and you have to do it pretty much the same way. And this is why I was so fascinated watching. Cause your show's like 80 minutes. It's not like it's a 40 minute show. Like you're out there 80 minutes.

There's no break. And it's gotta have, it. You're out there 80 minutes, there's no break. And it's all the material you've rehearsed over and over again. And you're trying to do the same beats. Physically, you're in these spots and you're basically like an offensive lineman running a playbook. And it's like, all right, now I got to go here and I got to block the defensive end on this or whatever. It it has to be right. Do you feel like you're trapped in that at all? Or do you have the ability to audible around it, ad lib, have fun?

Can you ad lib too much? Like just doing that night after night, I feel like I personally would go nuts after like day five and be like, all right, I'm going to fuck around in the 20 minute mark this time. But you kind of can't do that, right? No, because I ultimately have been like, all right, I'm going to fuck around in the 20 minute mark this time. But you kind of can't do that, right? No, because I ultimately have to deliver like some like in one way. I think about the show as this thing that I can hold in my hands. And it's like I have this thing and I need to convey it to these people who are gathered here. And I know that there's like 10 aspects of the show that really have to land

in a certain way. And if they don't, then I won't have delivered the thing. Right. So it's like, but the, but the, the inverse of that,

as opposed to like a straight, like an ensemble play with 10 actors is the audience is different every night this is like a thing that when i when i was starting out in comedy i was driving my mom's station wagon around the country and i used to listen to cds uh called on comedy and their interviews with all different comedians and there's like it was like jerry seinfeld johnny carson bill cosby and so woody allen like i i listen to like, this is pre podcast. Of course, this is like, I listened to like a hundred hours of comedy interviews over and over again, Steve Martin and the Jerry Seinfeld one is probably one of the best ones that I've ever heard.

And he says, with standup comedy, the audience is your scene partner. And, and, and it's like, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a play, it's a it's a play it's a scene but they're your scene partner so the exciting thing is your scene partner's different every night and you actually don't even know what they're gonna say they can groan they can you know i was talking about how much in the show the other night opening night is always like a stressful thing because you're like ah it's gonna be tense and people are gonna go oh there's ben still stressful thing because you're like, oh, it's going to be tense and people are going to go, oh, there's Ben Stiller. Is that, you know, like about whoever, whatever star is there. Is that Regina Spektor?

And so it's nerve wracking because they're not really focused. But this is kind of a gift in a certain way. There's a guy in the third row and I'm talking about, I go, there's a lot of pee. You reason there's so much chlorine in the pool is because there's a lot of pee in the pool. And I go, I study, I look this up. The research is not in our favor. I read about a study where a scientist measured a 200,000 gallon public pool and concluded that there was 20 gallons of pure urine. And this audience member, the third row, he literally audibly goes, no. And it was, and it was, and I was stopped the show. I walked

over and go, sir, it is not that type of show. You're not supposed to get that vocally explicit. And I kept going back to him through the show. It was like, that's such a gift in a certain way. Like people experiencing it like that. When you also, you have the running bit of, if somebody shows up late. Oh yeah. You,

that's like, nothing makes you happier than somebody who comes in nine minutes into the show and thinks that nobody's going to notice that they're nine minutes late. Oh my God. Yeah, no, it's,

uh, yeah. So I, yeah, I, I try to, I try to have an improv essentially for every all alternate version of what happens not you know phones going off and all this kind of stuff because also then you can't

you can't get too mad about stuff too you have to sort of keep an even keel about like there was a whole thing recently on broadway where someone's device went off and the performer like got mad at that person, but the device was like a hearing device. It wasn't a phone. And so then people were going after that actor. It was like, Oh, such a mess. But it's like I was saying about the, like the, the person saying you can't say anything anymore. You can, but it's everything's amplified and so the stakes feel weirdly higher than they used to but but yeah i i don't feel constricted by the show i know you mean but the audience gives you this sort of x factor and the other thing is and i don't want to give away what happens in the show but i have a thing where i bet i i essentially try to have right i have an audience which i know

elicited a reaction. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's in the last third. Yeah. So that's different every night. The thing you said about the scene partner made me think of sports. Yes. Because the best basketball players,

Jordan was like this, Larry Bird was like this, Magic was like this, especially. Sometimes you only got to play on the road in a city once right so like bird used to love going to the west coast because it would be like the one time the people in portland and denver and phoenix golden state got to see him and he would always play really well because it was like the one time and i think uh you know you read this stuff about springsteen who's been doing

these three four hour shows for you for 50 plus years at this point, is the same mentality. It's like, somebody there might never have seen me live before, and I got to give them the show. And it becomes this mindset that you just can't, I think once you have it, you don't lose it. That's really funny about Bird. I grew up on Bird. I grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts. I saw that. I went to Holy Cross. Oh, you did? That's where my dad went. Yeah, you were at Shrewsbury, right?

I was at Shrewsbury. I grew up in the 80s. It's so funny how sports affect you growing up. I grew up in the 80s. It was an amazing Celtics team uh and terrible football team like the worst yeah like i thought we thought they're gonna move like terrible patriots are so bad and i just in my mind is how naive you are as a kid i just thought you know basketball teams are good and football teams are bad like i didn't think it was ours it was just in general right but then it flips then it flips then it

flips and then uh but but i i thought i was gonna be larry bird you know like i didn't i literally you you you grow up in massachusetts and you look at larry bird and you go well that's that's me that's what i'm going to do. And then you play basketball and then you're in tears. And then that's not what happens. But yeah, I had that experience growing up. I wrote a basketball book once. And a lot of the prologue was about growing up in Massachusetts, but seeing like what Bird meant to kind of the whole region of New England after a while,

or it became like the superhero where anything seemed possible with them. And I think different cities have had that with guys. And now it's starting to fade away a little bit because the guys jump teams and they bounce around a little bit more. But Curry has it now. Is that right? Curry has in the Bay Area is very similar to the bird thing. They're completely all in. They think he's a superhero. They feel like no matter what the

situation is, he could score 15 points in three minutes and he's the guy. And I just feel like that's the final level you can get to as an athlete. And I'm always amazed, like some guys don't care, which is fine. It's their prerogative. But some guys are happy to just play three, four cities. But I would much rather be the superhero in one city. Well, it seems like LeBron is the ultimate example of that, at least from the documentary I watched,

that documentary that's amazing about LeBron. Yeah, and KD. I mean, a lot of the basketball players now, I think they just don't think of it the same way. Maybe they shouldn't. Maybe that era is like gone, but it does seem like Curry has it. Giannis has it.

It'd be interesting to see if, if Luca potentially has it. Do you have athletes that come to your shows? What's the athlete status? I, you know, like every now and then I'll, I'll, I'll talk to someone who

who it turns out likes what what i do i'm like i did a michael j fox benefit recently with blake griffin and he said he was going to come to the show and that was really cool but yeah i don't really i mean well i'm i'm someone who doesn't i don't follow the box scores, but I'm, but I love going to games. I love going to a Nets game or a Knicks game. I love going to the US Open, like all that stuff. Because I'm just, I marvel at it. I mean, I just marvel at watching

greatest people in the world. I mean, at anything. Yeah. The US Open would be a good one-man show location. Oh my God. Gorgeous. I always thought that's the coolest. I just don't know why people don't steal that setup for other things. It's not like gigantic.

Yeah. And the other thing is like, what I always tell tourists about the US Open, that the best trick about going to the US Open is to go in the daytime, in the early rounds, because then you see like the 16 and unders going to the U.S. Open is to go in the daytime, in the early rounds, because then you see the 16 and unders and the different... And there's no one watching. And you're watching some of the best players in the world, and it's you and 10 people.

Jesus. Yeah, it's amazing. How many Broadway shows do you know ahead of time how many you're doing? Do you know, I'm going to do 100, I'm going to do 50. I'm going to keep this going for a year. What's the, what's like the end game? I think we announced 70. I think right now it's like 86 or something like that. I'd like to do it for six months or a year. I, I I'm totally different from what I, where I used to be. I, because I have a seven and a half year old daughter, I just want to be home.

I've been on the road for like 20 years. You know, since I started driving my mom's station wagon around when I was in my twenties, I've just been on the road and I'm hitting this age where I'm just like, Oh yeah, I got to figure out like a local plan. It's crazy. Especially pre post pandemic like like entering pandemic i was 41 i'm 44 holy shit is 41 different from 44 well the other thing is especially with daughters that the six to ten range for daughters is like you're just never getting that back if you miss any of i have a lot of regrets i worked pretty worked pretty hard when my daughter was that age. And, you know, because they turn 12 and then that's it.

Yeah. They still want to hang out with you, but it's not the same. Yeah. When they're like seven, eight, nine, it's like, that's your bud. You know,

and they want to be where you are. And then eventually, you know, the school dynamics start coming in and all of a sudden, you're less interesting. Now I'm writing your next one-man show. Yeah.

My daughter dumped me. Sometimes I'm on stage and I show this. I don't even think this was in the version in Los Angeles, but I show this bracelet that my daughter made me that says silly. And she goes, dad, it's to remind you to be silly. And I'm like, oh, i thank god i do need a reminder sometimes but like i do get choked up sometimes on stage when i think about my daughter

and and and to your point about does it get boring saying the same thing it's like no because like sometimes emotions sneak up on you you know it's like you say something a different way or you tell it slightly different way or the audience reacts a different way. They go, oh, and then it makes you think of your daughter or your parents or whatever. And it makes you emotional. I almost started crying on stage the other night. So what kind of reactions do you get afterwards from people? Because it's a pretty emotional show. It's fun, but it's also there's some real stuff going on.

So what happens after? I had this guy come recently where he came back a second time and he was like, I love this show. He's like, because I brought my 12-year-old son and when we drove home, he wanted to talk about the afterlife. I was like, oh, that's amazing. It's like, to me, that's, you know, a lot of times with plays, they talk about like, what's the call to action, you know? And what do you feel when you leave? And a lot of times people say to me, I called my parents afterwards. I told them I love them. I called my parents afterwards i told them i love them i called my kids i called

my you know my old friend and it's like for me especially now like we're in i mean for being honest about what era of we're living in right now it's like this is fucking hell on earth like this is a crazy moment in history yeah i mean between the pandemic and the political climate and just like all this stuff going on. It's like, if you can do a thing where you connect with a thousand strangers for an hour and a half at Lincoln Center and people laugh a lot and they cry a lot and they think about who they love and then they call the person they love after, it's like, well, I want to be a part of that. I'll take that. I'll take that for a year if they'll give it to me.

What do you get recognized for the most? Is it the Netflix stuff or is it something else? Yeah, that and also like, like I was in the Taylor Swift anti-hero video recently. So like- I saw that. That's a wild thing. That's a good song too.

That was cool that you were there. It's great. It's a great song. You know, it's a funny thing about that is a good song too. That was cool that you were there. It's great. It's a great song. Here's the funny thing about that is when, so we're shooting the video and, and, and me and the other actors, Mary Elizabeth and John and Taylor,

like in this like side room in Los Angeles. And Taylor goes to us, she's directing the video. She wrote the video. She goes, so, so it's going to be this part of the song here i'm going to play the song this is like this summer before it all came out she goes this

is this is the part of the song she's playing the song on her phone and i'm like fully like bopping like i'm like dancing and it's embarrassing but like she can write a fucking song you know right these are great songs. But it was such a surreal experience to be with the artist. And you're dancing in a way that's sort of embarrassing. But it's also surreal and cool. The other thing is people recognize

Fault in Our Stars I was in, which is this cult phenomenon. And I play the youth pastor. And then Orange is the New Black I was on for a few seasons and so there's that. And then Billions. I was going to say, there's some Billions too, right? Yeah, Billions I was on for two seasons.

Yeah, I mean, the other thing is Trainwreck with Amy Schumer and Judd Apatow. I was lucky enough to play opposite Amy and Brie Larson and Bill Hader. I mean, I feel like I'm so lucky. I really do.

I feel so lucky with what I've worked really hard and then I've had some good bounces. Well, the Billions has its own weird psycho audience too. Oh my God, yeah. It's wild. I i mean it's i forget did your guy die in that what happened to your guy no no no so so i was so i i play like this

billionaire uh venture capitalist and i'm oscar langstrath and he and he's uh he's in a relationship with asia kate dylan's character but then we have like a breakup and we there's like a business double crossing situation was i'm not so i'm not but it's really compliment just wrote you off because he's being a dick like what happened no no brian first of all brian and brian and david wrote me on in the first place when they were writing the show they called me they go we have this we're gonna write this part sort of towards you if you want to do it. And I wrote it. They just wanted to hang out with you. I actually read through them. Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. They just wanted you around. I just want to be in Rounders too. That's my whole goal.

God damn it. This is 15 years of me badgering those guys for Rounders too. It's so easy. It seems like it's going to happen. Just get Damon. I think he'll do it. Come on, what's he doing? No, no, I think... He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. Why can't he give us Rounders 2? They're going to make that movie, I bet.

I would put good money on that. But yeah, so then... So I was... Yeah, Billions is a phenomenal group of people and it's a fun time. Yeah, and then... So yeah, I've been lucky. I've been lucky. All right, so this show, how many nights a week?

Six? Six nights a week. I do, my night off is Monday, so I do basically eight shows a week. And it's wild. Jesus. And it's wild. Like it's, you know, Rudd came the other night and you know it's uh Roderick is coming this week like it's when you do it Nathan Lane came when you do the show in

New York it's it really is like this like everybody comes if yeah if you if the reviews are good and whatever and people seem to like it all these people come so it's it's surreal i mean i grew up look i'm a kid that grew up i grew up near holy cross i didn't grow up near show business right you know so i this is all so shocking to me the idea that you'd ever meet these people like you're talking about like who's a fan it's like i run into like john mackinrow at stuff sometimes like the idea i grew up watching tennis the idea that i would would meet John Hackenbrough. I mean, you're talking about another planet.

Right. Well, and also the reviews were great, which always helps. It's like, I can't care about the reviews. But then when the reviews are awesome,

you're like, whoa, the reviews, look at this. I thought that was cool. You got some, you got some glowing ones. So I'm sure it'll be on.

I'm sure it'll be going for a while. When do you start thinking of the next thing? You have to finish this and then you take a break and what's the process? I've been writing a movie for a few years. That's going to be my third movie. My first one was Sleepwalk with me. The second one was called Don't Think Twice, which is Keegan Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs and a bunch of great folks. And then I'm writing my third movie right now. So that's the next thing that's on my mind.

And then I have another solo show in my head that, who knows, could be up in two years. I mean, I pretty much have written it. So I've written a draft of it. All right. Well, good luck. Congrats on the show. I thought it was awesome. Thanks, man.

People in New York, you should go see it. It's a good date, too. It's a good date night. It's definitely a conversation starter. A little dinner, one-minute show, nice ride home, talking about some of the themes. What more could you ask for? It means the

world to me that you came, Bill. It's a big honor. No, it was great. I had an awesome time. Thank you for inviting me. Good to see you. Thanks for coming on the pod, finally. Thank you. and I hope you crush it with the show. Thank you so much, Bill. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Mike and Peter and Ben. And thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing this episode as always. I hope you all enjoy Thanksgiving. I hope you enjoy the family time. I know we will, especially this year. Hope you enjoy the football and the food and the World Cup and the Black Friday shopping and

everything else. I'm glad we got to this. Tail end of November. It's great. Last but not least, my dad is turning 75 this weekend. Holy mackerel. I can't believe he got there. I thought the Red Sox were going to kill him like 19 times, but it didn't happen. 75 and thriving. Saw him last weekend. Happy birthday, dad. And I will see you on this feed on Sunday.