The Bill Simmons Podcast - NFL Draft Highlights, Part 2: Celts-Hawks and NBA Weekend Predictions With Sheil Kapadia and Wosny Lambre

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

In Part 2 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Sheil Kapadia to discuss the first round of the 2023 NFL draft: the biggest surprises, Round 1 winners, the perfect team for Anthony Richardson, NFL futures, and more (1:07). Then Bill talks with Wosny Lambre about the Celtics eliminating the Hawks, series takeaways, Round 2 anticipation, Warriors-Kings, and more (34:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Sheil Kapadia and Wosny Lambre Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Network. If you missed part one of this podcast, me and Rob Mahoney and Wazneem Lambre talked about Giannis' shocking exit from round one, as well as what it meant for the Best Player Live Championship belt. Who are the candidates? Who's going to be holding it in June? We broke it down and then some. Part two, going to talk to Shiel Kapati at the top about the NFL Draft round one. Another really fun rollercoaster ride. And then Big Waz comes back to talk Celt Talks, the Celt Survive, and we take a look at the round two matchups as well. It's all next.

First, our friends from ProJab. All right, taping this part of the podcast, it is 9 o'clock Pacific time, round one of the NFL draft just ended. Shil Kapadia from the Ringers here, he hosts one of the podcasts on the Ringer NFL show as well as a Pulitzer Prize winning podcast, the Ringer's Philly Special, which has just been lively as hell since we launched it. Before we get into all the draft storylines, one of the weirdest things happened today.

Lamar Jackson, the saga that we've been waiting for for a million years to end. And it just seemed like, oh, we'll get through the draft and then some team is going to offer them to first and he'll be on another team. And then a couple hours before the draft, all of a sudden he's resigning for the biggest contract in NFL history. What did the timing say to you that they did this right before the draft? I think the Jalen Hurts contract had a lot to do with it. Now that wasn't right before the draft. So I don't know if that was a PR thing to announce it right before the draft and generate some good buzz. But after Hurts signed that contract, I just had the thought, if the Ravens call Lamar Jackson right now and offer him this exact same contract, what does he say?

Because Lamar was comparing himself to the Deshaun Watson contract a year ago, but that looks like it's going to be a huge outlier. I mean, Herbert's up, Burrow's up. It doesn't look like anyone's going to match that at all. So maybe he reconsidered a little bit. Maybe the Ravens said, hey, we'll bring our offer up to beat that Jalen Hurts contract and let's meet in the middle somewhere and let's just put this behind us and move forward with the draft and the offseason. So usually things are not a win-win, but that kind of felt like a win-win for both the player and the team. It wasn't a win-win for content. It wasn't a win-win for the ringer.

Couldn't this have happened on like a Monday so we could have just gotten a whole day of content out of it? Jesus. Why do you have to do it three hours for the draft? I did wonder like if there was a little bit of a deadline element to it where once we get past the draft and people have no idea where they're picking in 2024, it makes it a little easier to stomach giving up two firsts for Lamar. And then you also factor in, oh, we'll be better if we get Lamar. So if you're Baltimore, it's like, man, maybe we have to wrap this up before the draft. Otherwise, who the hell knows? What if somebody doesn't get the quarterback they thought they were going to get? Or what if somebody gets hurt in the next three weeks? To me, the timing did not seem

coincidental, but I don't know if I'm overthinking it. That's a good point if you're the Ravens, because like you said, if you're a team that went into this draft and was like, we're going to get a quarterback, but you end up, you leave the draft and you don't have one. And like you said, GMs are like, all right, they don't want to give up draft picks in this year's draft. But if it's a year away, they're like, who cares? That's a long way away. We can at least explore it. But it just seems like from start to finish there, there was not a lot of interest from teams in Lamar Jackson where they weren't sure about how much of that guaranteed money he really wanted, what his demands were, where like we didn't even have any news of a meet. I thought a team would at least like

take a meeting here and we can talk about some of the teams later that maybe should have. But yeah, you're right. The timing maybe motivated the Ravens a little bit to come up from where they were. Yeah. And we've talked on a bunch of our different podcasts about some of the teams, like a team like Carolina that traded up all that capital to move up to number one when they probably could have traded a similar amount of capital just to get Lamar Jackson, who is one of the best winning record quarterbacks with the 60 game sample size that we've had the last 30 years. So I don't know. Timing was strange. I thought it was strange. He didn't represent himself, but obviously he's proven agents overrated. He just did it all himself. I don't know if an agent could have

helped maybe facilitate a different trade, but he ended up basically reading what the Jalen Hurts contract details were. He'd be like, give me that and maybe a few dollars more and I'm probably good. And that's it. Now they have a quarterback. They draft a receiver. I think in the first round, what was that? The 13th straight year they've drafted a receiver in the first

round? 15th straight year? 17th straight year? I don't know. Something like that. They got another toy for him. Biggest surprise for you in round one? Biggest surprise was the Detroit Lions. I don't want to just come on here and just start crushing the Detroit Lions, but my goodness, if you're a Lions fan, you go into this draft and you go, we have six and we have 18. It was a very exciting draft for the Lions. And I feel like America, you know, the neutral football fans want to wrap their arms around the Lions and be like, we like you Lions. You're, you know, the positive vibes now.

And they spent, you know, they trade back, which was fine. I thought that was a smart trade back. And then went back from six to six to 12, right? Six to 12. It was a good trade. You get more draft capital. All right. Things are still looking good with the Lions.

And then things turned for the Lions. I mean, at number 12, they take Jameer Gibbs from Alabama, who is a nice player, but you're going to spend that pick on a running back after you pay David Montgomery $6 million per year in free agency. I mean, that to me was a wild move. And then they have a second first round pick and they go off ball linebacker Jack Campbell from Iowa. You look at any draft board, there are all these consensus draft boards that aggregate a bunch of smart analysts like our own Danny Kelly. Nobody had this guy in the top 40. I mean, if you love that guy, move back again, figure out a way to get him later. But just think about how the night started. If you're a Lions fan, you thought, hey, maybe Anthony Richardson falls to us. Maybe we'll take

a shot on Jalen Carter at six if our coaching staff feels like they can handle him. And now you don't get anyone like that. You get a running back and an off-ball linebacker. That to me was just, man, I feel like the Lions vibes really took a turn tonight. I agree with you. I thought for sure they were going to take Christian Gonzalez at 12 because they needed a cornerback, right? And that was, you know, he was going to be somewhere in that eight to 14 range. It seemed like they're only two high end cornerbacks in the draft. So they take a running back at 12. I wasn't even crazy about B. John Robinson going eight, even though we all agree he's one of the three best parts of the draft. But it's just the history of that. I don't know how many examples we need,

but at least if you're going to do it in the top 12, you want to do it with a guy that people say, this is the best running back in four years and five years. The Gibbs thing. I thought, I agree with you. I thought that was nuts, especially for a team that's really close to the Superbowl that lost Jamal Williams, who seemed like he was one of the leaders of the team. And you could have just brought him back and use that position somewhere else. I look at the draft sometimes where you look at the free agent spending, right? Where it's like, what positions get the most money whenever teams have money? It's always quarterback, it's left tackle,

it's defensive end, it's cornerback. Like there are these really prized, hard to find skill positions. And if you can find one of those spots in the top 20 with somebody who can play for you next year, I would prioritize that over everything. They said when they took, when the Jets took Will McDonald, that was another one where they were like, that's a fit pick. Fit picks to me, I just don't get it if you're in the top 20. I think you have to go talent and the hardest positions to fill. But I don't know. I've been

watching the draft a long time. It always seems like that recipe works. Yeah, you're absolutely right. That's why positional value matters because if you can, like these wide receivers now are getting paid what over $20 million per year. Think about the Vikings when they draft Justin Jefferson, you're paying almost nothing for him and you're getting somebody who was actually a $20 million per year. It's the same thing with the quarterback rookie contracts, right? Everybody has talked about that for years, but you're right. It applies to different positions, wide receiver, pass rusher, tackle, all those things. Like Jaquan Barkley, what did he sign for?

10 million? Yeah. And he was probably one of the six or seven best running backs last year. Yeah. And it's like, that's kind of the price if you're a top seven running back. And even if, you know, Austin Eckler, he was batting his eyelashes at everybody during the off season and he was really good for the last couple of years. But what's the price for a guy like that?

It's like, I don't know, nine to 11 million, right? Yeah. Not, not, I mean, less than that for some of these guys, honestly, that's why the franchise tag is in, is a nice use because you just have to sign the guy for one year at whatever it is, 10 million. Eight million has been kind of that sweet spot. And then some guys have gone way over that, like Christian McCaffrey. But yeah, then you're talking about the elite of the elite guys. And honestly, most of those contracts haven't worked out. I mean, the Titans with Derrick Henry, the Panthers with Christian McCaffrey, you can go on and on. When you pay that running back to a second contract, we have a long history now that it usually is not going to be a good idea. Zeke, it's going to be something that you end up

regretting. And so- Well, then on the flip side, Buffalo, would they get Damian Harris for it? It was like one year, 3 million or one year- Exactly, less. 2 million? I think it was under two. Yeah, under two. In Philly, what'd you get the Seattle running back for? Oh, Rashad Penny. Yeah. I think he was like 600,000 guaranteed. That was like one for three. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy. Yeah. So you can take flyers on those guys. I'm with you. I fundamentally disagree with drafting a running back that high, unless it's a Bijan Robinson example. Atlanta, they loaded up with

all these weapons. Will Levis was sitting there, really for everybody from pick seven on and nobody bit. But they have Robinson, they have Cordero Patterson, Kyle Pitts, fantasy murderer, murdered just thousands and thousands of fantasy teams all over the place. They got Drake London. It's just all of these weapons. They built this really fancy Italian race car. And unfortunately, they have like a 75-year-old driving it. I was not a fan of what I saw from Ritter last year. I don't understand.

Why are you loading up on all these weapons, but you don't have a quarterback? I mean, they're the team that first came up when Lamar was available and they said no immediately. And when you were just talking about him at the top here, I mean, that was the team I thought of. You're absolutely right. They've had three top 10 picks. They have not used any on a quarterback or on the lines of scrimmage. I mean, like you said, they've got, I mean, that's not, that's one way to build a team. That's generally, you know, the old school smart football types would not say that's the best way to build a team. So it's just like, how many years are you going to kick the can down the road? And by the way, you mentioned Cordero Patterson. Last year, they had the number three rushing DVOA offense in the NFL with Tyler Algier and Cordero Patterson. I love Bijan Robinson. I can't wait to watch him play in the NFL. He's going to be a fantastic player.

But again, to the conversation we were just having, is that the best use of resources for a team that has no quarterback, no pass rush, and needs a lot of help with their roster? Could you have traded back and made a couple picks? I mean, only they know the answer to that. But yeah, as much as I love Bijan Robinson and can't wait to watch him play,

even that pick, I would put that in kind of my, didn't really like that column from the first round. Yeah. I thought Jalen Carter would have been the ballsy pick. And I think some teams were probably afraid to go near him, you know, but you just look at fundamentally who's a bigger asset in the NFL, Jalen Carter or Bijan Robinson. I'm so glad you brought up Tyler Algier. I fucking love that guy last year. I thought he was like one of the best random Sunday ticket guys, especially near the end of the season. Like every time he ran the ball, it was like five, six yards. He was bulldozing over people. Running back would not have been a position I felt like I needed to address as good as everybody thinks Robinson is. Philly,

team you've been covering, I don't know, I would say extensively on the Ringers Philly Special. They end up with Jalen Carter, and then they go back in in number 30, and it's like, really? This dude's going to follow them too? The other Georgia guy who everybody thought was going to go in the

10-12 range, they get him too, they beef up their defense. Somebody on Twitter listed all of their best defensive players. If you include the two rookies, it was kind of staggering. This is a team that went to the Superbowl last year and added two starters who at least might be impact guys. I'm not,

I think Carter seems like an everyday guy. I'm not sure about the other guy, but it seems like they added two more impact guys. This is unusual for the Superbowl hangover shield. I know. Yeah. They had the 10th pick because of the saints. So they had the 10th pick going into this draft. I thought Jalen Carter, and this isn't homerism. I said this a week ago. I thought he was the best player just on film in the draft. Like when I watched him doing draft prep, I was just like, holy cow, this guy is quick. He's powerful. He's just tossing guys like Reggie White.

And so there was no question about his film. It's a real boomer bus pick. I mean, I think Chris Mortensen said at least three teams ahead of the Eagles didn't have Carter on their board at all. So the off field is legit legit. Now I look at this sometimes and I wonder what you think about this. Like, I feel like NFL teams go into the draft and they just want like ready-made, you know, like they're always complaining, aren't they? Like, oh, this guy played in this scheme. This guy didn't run enough routes. And it's like, your job is kind of to coach and put these guys in the right environment and support them. And if they're talented, get the most out of them. So I always feel like, listen, there are some lines you don't cross and there's risk reward

to everything. But if a guy has the talent to be like a top three defensive tackle in the NFL for the next five to eight years, I feel like that's a risk worth taking. Now, a year from now, it could all go to hell and we could be like, oh my gosh, Jalen Carter, we didn't know how serious those off the field issues were. They know that better than we do. But yeah, I think Eagles fans are thrilled that they took the risk on him. Yeah. If you ask me to choose which path either, oh man, remember when they took Jalen Carter? Jesus, so many problems with that dude. Or I'm reading the story and the Seth Wickersham story in ESPN the magazine two years from now

about the bond between Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis. And once Jalen Carter found the Eagles, his whole life fell into place. And now he's the best, you know, defensive lineman in the league. Like to me, that path seems more probable. This is a great spot for him.

Like he goes to a team like Atlanta, whatever. You're on a weird defense. You're in a big city. Lots of ways to get in trouble versus like, you're on a team now that has a really good locker room, a coach that everybody seems to like, a ton of talent, a fan base that can really go either way on a guy,

depending on what they show. If it's somebody who's a little soft, I don't know, like if you had a basketball player who maybe quit after a playoff series and then refused to play again, might not go over that well in the city, like a guy who might have my last name. On the flip side, the talented, enigmatic, but man, you put him in and all of a sudden he blossoms. Philly loves those guys. And on top of it, you put him in and all of a sudden like he blossoms like Philly loves those guys. So I, and on top of it, you really needed him because you lost your D lineman, one of them, and it didn't seem like you had the same defense. And now you added two guys. I think,

I thought the Eagles were one of the big winners, obviously. I mean, everybody does. Yeah. I think it worked out great for them for the points you just mentioned. Yeah. I think fans will really get behind him and be like, all he has to do is like one rep at training camp or the first preseason game or whatever and they're gonna go nuts and you're right it was a position of need I mean they lost a bunch of starters on defense in free agency including Hargrave goes from the Eagles to the 49ers they really didn't have that interior pass rush. And again, like he's somebody who just in college was capable of just wrecking games. I mean, you know, the highlights were pretty amazing with him. And then they get Nolan Smith, the edge rusher at 30, which I thought they

might draft him at like 10 or if they move back a little bit in the first round. So you never know. It could all go horribly. But as far as like expectations going into the night and then after the night, I think Eagles fans are probably as excited as any fan base right now. And you signed Jalen Hurts. And, you know, I thought maybe they would try to trade up to get Jalen Carter,

especially the way the draft started to fall when Arizona moved back up and they took Paris Johnson at six to tackle. And I was like, oh, they're going to move into that Vegas spot and take Jalen Carter. And they didn't. Vegas took Tyree Wilson. We'll see if that one comes back to haunt them. Maybe, you know, they've had some issues with some players in the past in Las Vegas.

They maybe Carter was too risky for them, but it really fell for them. The other team that really took a swing was Houston. Houston takes C.J. Stroud second, who was at various points was supposed to go in top two, seemed like he was free falling. All of a sudden he was back. And then the guy that I think a lot of people thought they should have taken, including me,

Will Anderson, where it's like, what do you care if you get a quarterback or not? You're not going to be good anyway. Just take the best defensive player. They trade back up. They trade 12, 33,

a 24 first, and a 24 third to move up nine spots. That was a lot. And if this was really any other team, I think we'd be going nuts about it. But Shield, nobody cares about the Texans. It's like if the Texans make a monster trade in the forest, does anybody hear it? Yeah, we were discussing what do we lead this segment with? I'm like, does anyone care about the Texans? That was probably the biggest move. But I mean, when you just read like the trade terms out loud, think about that. How many non-quarterbacks of the NFL would be worth the 12th pick, the 33rd pick, a future first,

and a future third? Like, I like Willie Anderson a lot. Like, I think he could be like a TJ Wattish type defensive player. But now he like has to be that to justify what you gave up there. Yeah, I thought that was, uh, I had a hard time with that one. Cause I really liked the player, but I'm like the Texans, you're not like one pass rusher away. You need, you need all, you have like the worst roster in the NFL. Just chill a little bit, by the way, that's their own first round pick. I believe it was reported next year that they're giving up. Like they could be one of the five worst teams in the NFL next year. I mean, that could be such a

valuable pick next year. I would not have made that move if I were them. As much as I love Will Anderson, I thought that was a crazy amount to give up for a non-quarterback. Can I give you a possible scenario that might explain what happened?

So we know the owner wanted a quarterback, right? The Whisper campaign was pretty strong that the owner was like, we gotta, I can't not watch a team that doesn't have a future quarterback. You gotta get me one. And Casario maybe didn't want the quarterback. This feels like a compromise

where they're arguing about CJ Stratt or Will Anderson. And it's like, well, I'll give you the quarterback, but can I trade from 12 to three and give up 43 next year's first and then third to get my guy and then we can both win? And the owner's like, sure. And then if you're Casera, you're probably out after this year anyway, right?

The odds of CJ Stroud coming in and being awesome in year one, I would say probably five to one, six to one, seven to one. I highly doubt it. So now if you're Casare, you're just like, well, what do I care? I probably am not going to be here in a year anyway. What do I care what happens with the first round pick? So everybody wins and then you have the slight puncher's chance that this works out great.

Will Anderson is the fucking dominant guy everybody thought, and maybe you lucked out with C.J. Stroud. Did you like C.J. Stroud heading into this draft? I did. I wouldn't say I loved him and was over the moon. I did think they needed to draft a quarterback at two unless they just didn't like anybody at all. Because I kind of thought all the quarterback prospects in this draft,

at least the top three guys were sort of better. I like them better than I feel like most people were giving them credit for. I mean, Stroud, if nothing else, like he should have a high floor. I mean, he can work from the pocket. I probably the most accurate passer from this class. And I thought he showed upside when you saw him play Georgia at the end of the season, it was like a version of CJ Stroud we had not seen before. So I'm fine with that pick. I didn't like doing both. I think your theory is a good one. Yeah. It's like, you know, you and your wife disagree on where to order food from. And you're like, it's door dash. Like, listen, we can easily, let's just get both. They'll both come here and we don't have to worry about it. We'll get Thai food and Chinese. It'll be great.

I'm looking at the NFL futures right now on FanDuel and the Chiefs are still favored six to one and the Eagles are plus eight 50 in the conference. Now heading into this draft, you figure there are four loaded NFC, not even loaded, but the NFC is not as strong as the AFC. I don't think Philly was the favorite again. Then from a roster standpoint, it's looking like Dallas. It's looking like Detroit, San Francisco,

and then kind of Seattle as a wild card, depending on what they did in the draft. My Seattle friends are very happy with what they did with the draft. They did not take a risk on a quarterback. They even passed on Will Levis a second time. Would you put them in the top five of the NFC now based on what they did today? I was actually just thinking about this as I was going through the first round and looking at it. Gino Smith, a huge winner from tonight. Like you mentioned, I thought there was a real chance that if Anthony Richardson slipped to five,

that the Seahawks might take him and figure it out. That didn't happen. And then they get him the best wide receiver, I think, in the draft, Jackson Smith and Jigba at 20. So now you have Smith and Jigba, Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf with Gino Smith and two second year offensive tackles. I kind of think, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think of a team I would put ahead of them for five. And I was looking at the odds also earlier this week and the Seahawks were way down, uh, in the NFC. I don't know if that, that changed at all with the draft. Sometimes we overrate how, uh, you know, what the impact rookies can make, but, uh, I feel like their offense is going to be tough to deal with. I mean, I think they were what top eight, top 10 in DVOA last yearA last year. Smith and Jigba, he could win offensive rookie of the year. I mean, he is somebody who

profiles as a wide receiver who can come in and play well right away. And then of course, they get the corner Devon Witherspoon to pair with Tariq Wool in their corner from last year. So yeah, I like a lot about that team and And I would have no arguments about saying they're the fifth best team in the NFC. Well, Fando for the NFC odds, Philly plus 330, San Fran plus 350, which is crazy to me because like, do we know who San Francisco's quarterback is yet?

It might be Sam Darnold. Dallas 7-1, Detroit 9-1, New Orleans is 14-1, which I don't understand at all. Minnesota is 16-1. Green Bay 18-1. And coming in eighth in the NFC, Seattle at 20-1. I don't agree with that at all. I think Seattle is going to be pretty good.

And they have a puncher's chance to take control of that division if San Francisco can't figure out their quarterback situation. I like those Seattle odds and that receiver core. Holy shit. If JHN's good right away, that's about as good of a threesome. Who has a better threesome receiver-wise from a talent standpoint than those guys? Anybody? I was trying to think. I don't know that there's a team that has three wide receivers that good. Tyreek and Wado, who's their third? Yeah, I guess they don't have one. Yeah, rotate a third guy.

There are pairings that are better. If you mix in tight ends, you can put other groups in there. But if you're just looking at the three best wide receivers and that's the way the league has gone and a pocket passer who's accurate like Geno Smith, I mean, yeah, there's a lot to work with there. And the thing with Seattle is they killed the draft last

year. So now they don't have an old roster. They have a bunch of young players who should theoretically be better this year than they were last year. So I think they're in a great spot. So Rudy offers the Bengals. Yeah. So you got Chase, Boyd, Higgins. Yeah, I would probably take them.

Yeah, that's pretty good. All right, so at least in the NFC. Two other plots and then we'll go. The Green Bay, actually three more plots. Green Bay flips with the Jets and then Lucas Van Ness, who was described in the NFL Network's coverage as having violent hands.

That was their read on him. But good pass rusher. Ironically, somebody the Jets probably could have used. And then the Jets got Will McDonald. So it was just interesting that that flip of those picks actually might have mattered. I think the Jets might have actually taken Lucas Vendez. The Pats trade down from 14 to 17, as they always do.

God forbid we ever just stay and grab somebody. Yet this time, the guy that I was hoping they would either take Christian Gonzalez or the Ohio State receiver because I want impact guys. It's not like the Pats are loaded with blue chippers.

They have a lot of pink chippers and a lot of red chippers, but the blue chip pile is not deep. And they trade back. And then nobody takes Christian Gonzalez and they take him 17th. And I'm getting congratulation texts from people like Mina Kimes.

I felt like I got invited to the prom. I was so excited. The Pats had a fun NFL draft. It's true. Listen, I wanted nothing else than to come on and like make fun of you for something weird that Bill Belichick did in the first round. I was really looking forward to that when I heard I was going to join you, but they picked a player who I love. I mean, he was my favorite corner in the draft. I liked him better than Witherspoon, better than Banks, better than

the other guys who went in the first round. I mean, six foot one, he runs 4.38. I thought his film was great. He doesn't get beat deep. He's not scared. He's like, I can get in your face because if I get beat a little bit, I can recover because I'm that fast. So to trade down and get him at 17, yeah, as much as it pains me to say, I think the Patriots were one of the winners, absolutely, in the first round. They get draft capital. They take a premium position. A great athlete. Someone who should be able to help them for a long time. So I thought that was a great pick.

Can I ask you a question? Why does it pain you? The Patriots, we're done. Our era's over. We're like a 9-8 team. You should feel pity for us. We're a 500 team. You're up here.

Mac Jones is our quarterback. They try to trade him for a month. That's true. You should feel pity for us. We're a 500 team. You're up here. Mac Jones is our quarterback. They try to trade him for a month. That's true. Maybe it's the 21-year-old self, Donovan McNabb. I get it. Yeah, you know how it goes. It cuts deep. All right, last one.

Anthony Richardson goes to the Colts at four. It just feels perfect. It feels like the perfect, perfect team for him. Shitty division. Gets to go to a team that'll have no expectations next year. I just liked it. I liked the fit. I was glad I went there.

I was worried if he went to Seattle. Then we're in this whole Geno and when is Anthony Richards going to play? And the team's kind of a little too good. He can go to Indianapolis now. He could be in a crap rebuilding team. Maybe not even play for a year because my guy Minshew is there. Maybe Minshew holds the fort.

He can learn under the tutelage of Gardner Minshew and take over a year from now. But I absolutely love that spot for him. If I had to pick any team in the top 12 that I wanted him to go to, like Tennessee, I don't know. To me, like Tennessee, that's a multi-year rebuilding project with the cap. Indianapolis, they kind of already started rebuilding

last year. I just like the spot. What did you think of the spot for him? I was hoping Detroit for him if he fell a little bit, but that didn't happen. Seattle, I was intrigued by, but your point's a good one because it really worked out for the Colts. I thought going in, the Colts were one of the most unpredictable teams because the owner's volatile. The GM probably feels like he's coaching for his job. It's a

first-year head coach. nothing was going to surprise me. And they just sat there and the quarterback fell to them. Like that is a huge win for the Colts. And they hired Shane Steichen from the Eagles as their head coach. I don't know if he's going to be good or not, but we know that he has experience working with the quarterback who can run, kind of spread it out, use the quarterback's legs. Don't make it overly complicated with him,

like some of these old school NFL types. So, uh, I'm excited for Richardson there. Now the supporting cast is not great, but Richardson and Jonathan Taylor, if nothing else, like that run game should be really tough to handle, uh, on a weekly basis. It's not a great division. So yeah, I like that fit. Uh, I like the Bryce young fit too. I know, you know, it feels like Panthers fans are a little like, did we take the right guy? I think Bryce young is going to be awesome fit too. I know, you know, it feels like Panthers fans are a little like, did we take the right guy? I think Bryce Young is going to be awesome in Carolina. I mean, I think people are overthinking it way too much. The guy missed one game in two years in the SEC.

I mean, he threw, what, 80 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. And so when you were reading out those odds and had the Saints so high, I'm like, I don't know if the Saints are, you know, maybe you were just a year early with your Panthers love and your Panthers prediction. We should, you know, we can talk about that in the months ahead because I think the Panthers could be good this year with Bryce Young and that support. I agree with you. Also think about that division. Like is anyone going to win 10 games in that division? Nine and eight might take it. I was bummed that they lost Foreman because I really liked how he ran for them the second half of the year. But yeah, weird division.

Then you talk about the AFC South, also a weird division, which went from basically Trevor Lawrence and no other quarterbacks to now we have Trevor Lawrence, we have CJ Stroud, we have Anthony Richardson, we have three top four quarterbacks, and then Bob, Joe, and Jerry in Tennessee. I have no idea. Who's Tennessee's quarterback going to be? Is it they're just going to patch it together?

Who is it? I guess it's Tannehill for now. And then we'll see. They might just be kicking the can down the road a year and seeing what happens. Yeah, that feels like a full reboot. Well, I'll tell you this, Sheil. We had Grantland 2011 to 2015 and then the ringer from basically the start of 2016 on. And I know how this goes with the staff

when the staff mobilizes behind a team, a player. I feel like Richardson and the Colts, I just feel like that's going to be very ringery. Just coming out of the gates, there's a lot of ringer fans of Richardson, and I just feel like he's going to be a guy for us. I've seen it happen. It's my prediction. I could see that. Yeah. I think the lions were probably trending a little in that direction, but that momentum might've halted with the way they drafted here

in the first round. Yeah. So you kind of need a replacement team. So I don't, I'm new here. I don't know. I'm still new. I don't know if there's a draft or something, or if this stuff happens organically, but I could absolutely see that too, between some of our staffers that they're going to get behind. Yeah, we know there's some, for sure. We have some Richardson ringleaders. They know who they are. And then we'll let us never gets drafted. So he goes to the second round. And my guess just from past history is people will jockey for that 33rd pick. And that's going to be the Will Levis spot.

And I don't know who trades up for him. But usually that's what happens with that top pick, right? Is there somebody else that you think could be lurking as the guy for 33? I guess it's 32 this year, not 33, because Miami didn't have a first-round pick. Right. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, if a team really liked Levis, they were incentivized to trade to the back end of the first round, because then you get that fifth-year option, which is like,

if you have a quarterback, that's very valuable. So I don't know what it was. There was some reporting about a toe injury. I thought he was going to go at some point in the first round. But sometimes there's that quarterback who slips, who we think, all right, the league's going to like him more than they do, and he ends up falling to the second round.

So yeah, him and Hendon Hooker, neither of them went in the first round where I think people thought there's a chance we get five quarterbacks in the first round. I'm tired. Solak had me in a tizzy two days ago thinking the Pats were going to trade for Will Levis. I'm getting tired of all the Philly fans on staff.

I might have to invite everybody to a retreat, then do a boar on the floor thing and just have all the Philly guys rolling around on the floor, picking up sausage. I've had it with you guys. Solak comes to LA. It's like, I'm going to just get Simmons going with this Will Levis thing.

Will Levis doesn't even go in the first round. The fuck was that? Might send Solak home in the luggage pile. Ridiculous. Listen, as someone who pods with Solak for roughly like seven hours a week, he'll let some takes fly. You got to call him out on it

and let him know about it. So yeah, that experience, I know how to deal with him. All right. Well, you're off to go take Brigger's Philly Special with him, talking about those Eagles deal with them. All right. Well, you're going to, you're off to go tape Riggers Philly special with them talking about those Eagles picks and a whole bunch more.

Sheil, great to see you. Are you writing for the website tomorrow? No, not for tomorrow. Yep. Just doing the pods and we'll do the Ringer NFL show

after the third day of the draft. All right. You did a great job for us this month. I really enjoyed reading it. Good to see you. Thanks. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste.

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A little past 8 o'clock Pacific time. Big Waz is here. Wazney Lambre. And he's catching me right after I had a near stroke as the combination of the Patriots traded down and the Celtics semi-sleepwalking through. I don't know. I feel like game sixes are important in a series, Waz. Usually there's only, it's seven games.

There's only two games left. But they finally threw some defensive stops, made a couple of threes and they have now advanced to round two. I'm going to throw this question at you. You get fork in the road. You get two choices. Choice a great series for the Celtics to put some hair on their chest, need a little hair in your chest from round one. That'll get you nice ready for round two or choice B, how the fuck did it take you this long to put away the Hawks? I'm choice A for sure.

Because watching this game, it's funny. I was like, I don't want to text Bill right now because I know that Bucks game is still looming in his head. I already know the wheels were spinning like, Jesus Christ. If we go to game seven, are these guys literally going to put our season on the brink? But, you know, to me, the Celtics have officially become a veteran group, right, in the sense that they sleepwalked specifically on defense,

knowing that they could score on will. And with four minutes left in this game, five minutes left in this game, they put the screws to these guys and they showed their defensive mettle, which I think is going to be the hallmark of this team if they ultimately reach their goals. And so that was heartening to see, like, when Brown just punches, you know, DeJounte Murray's shot off the board. He hadn't been doing that all game, you know?

It's in the final minutes they finally decide, like, all right, let's get rid of these guys. They're generating wide open shot after wide open shot every possession. I don't think they ever really felt threatened by this bunch. I think when they face Philadelphia it's going to be a worthy opponent

and you're going to see their best. It was the whole kit and caboodle of this Celtics team. There was a lot of the settling and just hawking up the threes and blowing 10-point leads. Those two Marcus Smart threes. Oh, yeah. And then the Marcus Smart sub back in, six and a half minutes left.

Brick three. Oh, no. Turns the ball over first. Then a brick three. They leave them open. Another brick three. And it's like, oh, my God, we're going to do this again. But then you see the other side of it. And one of the things was he put in grant williams who ended up playing i think a big chunk of crunch time uh because he was going for

the defense intensity switch on everything lineup and it worked and uh and for whatever reason they finally found the defensive end which weird is white was on the bench who has been probably the most consistent defensive player on the team all year. So I look at it, Tatum hit a couple of big shots. He finished with 30, 14, and seven. We talked in part one of the pod we did with Mahoney about when we're talking about who could potentially take the best championship

player belt from Giannis. Could Tatum get there? He's too inconsistent. I was talking about the frustrating thing is, does he put his impact on these games enough? It felt like he was on this game a lot. And so was Jalen. Jalen finished with 32,

a couple of big defensive plays. They took 45 shots between them. And it was, those are the engines of the team. The big X factor, as always, is Marcus, who ended up playing 33 minutes.

This was a good Marcus game. And he made the no, no, no, yes, three, basically to clinch it. The whole package of him, too. And then Joe Mazzola burning his challenge with like five minutes left on a call that they had no chance to win. Then they actually needed it.

They didn't have it. But yeah, look, man, I don't know if I can do this for three more rounds, Waz. I don't know if I can handle this team emotionally. Do I have to start smoking again? Should I try gummies?

Should I just start drinking every day? What should be my advice? Because coffee is not going to do it with this team. Is Xanax out of the question? It's legal now in the CBA. Xanax was legalized in the NBA CBA. Is that real?

Yeah. Is that real? They legalized Xanax, and there's no needle testing for HGH. We're two of the things that jumped out. Yeah. I think that's good for the sport, honestly, the HGH portion of it anyway.

But no, I honestly think they're going to take the Sixers seriously. I like the matchup of the Sixers for them. Obviously, they're big man depth. Historically, Big Al has had some nice moments against Embiid defensively. And I just think James Harden is cooked. Just the idea of him as some actual threat against Brown or Tatum guarding that guy, they're going to swallow that dude whole, in my opinion. And then, you know, in the conference finals, they get to play against either the Knicks or the Zombie Heat.

This is amazing how this is all shaping up for you guys, Bill. Two teams that have played the Celtics very well this season and are not afraid of the Celtics and are totally convinced they can beat the Celtics. The Philly matchup's been really good for them this season. They've been able to go smaller and push the pace on them. They have multiple guys to throw at Embiid. And just in general, they play fast against them and they even ramp it up a tiny bit.

And I think that's a pretty nice series for them. It's interesting. Miami Knicks, you just want them to beat the hell out of each other for seven games. Fights, suspensions. Yeah, it's all happening. Yeah, just let's make that a rugby match. Let's go. Football,

people wear those helmets on their heads. But I think for this, I think ultimately I've landed in an okay place with the Celts in their heads. But I think for this, I think ultimately I've landed an okay place with the Celts in this series. But this got pretty dark after game five. I don't want to read my text threads on air, but this went to some dark places.

There's some real concern about the coaching on this team. Some of the stuff I led the other night's podcast with, the metal of these dudes, these guys that haven't won anything yet, not just the Celtics, but in general. This is a league-wide thing. I've won nothing and I act like I have. And they kind of needed to lay the smack down today

in the way that they did. So, I feel a little better. Let's flip to the Hawks for a second though. So, there's a moment at some point in that first quarter. Trey was like 5 for 10 in the first quarter, like 19 points. And I'm sitting there going... You had 25 at halftime, Bill.

And I'm thinking I'm going to have to go on with Waz tonight and I'm going to have to admit defeat on Trey Young. A guy that I completely wrote off after game two. And just in general, as somebody who's a complete defensive liability, can't shoot threes nearly as well as people think,

turn the ball over too much, all that stuff. And he was playing great. And he had that swagger back. Like you could feel it. He really seemed like he was performing. For sure. Yeah. Performing for the crowd, smiling,

doing like his little finger hand gestures. And it felt like, man, Trey Young in the course of a series, we wrote him off and now we're going to have to apologize for him. And then he went one for 13 in the second half and fell apart. So some of these shots are just Trey Young shots that he just, he's just, you know, throughout the course of his career, he's decided he's a guy who takes 30 footers for no apparent reason throughout the course of a game. Um, and some of those didn't drop. Of course, some of his patented floaters, uh, his floater hasn't been as accurate this year

as it has been in the past has been one of his like signature shots. Honestly, one of the things that made him pretty deadly was the floater game that wasn't really working for me. It's more of a mentality, more of an approach. His ball dominance and like whenever I'm not directly involved in the play doing absolutely nothing, I don't think it's justifiable when you combine that with the fact that he's one of the top three worst defensive players in the league, right? He has to be doing more. He has to be more dynamic. He can't just be, if I'm not directly assisting on something or shooting the ball, I do nothing.

He has to be more dynamic in order for his team to reach another level offensively. And that has to be the case to justify how bad he is on the other end, right? I think guys, because he's not a big man and so you can mask his deficiencies on defense um in a myriad of ways but to get his guys to want to play and back him up that way and cover up his deficiencies he can't be this guy on offense which is pretty selfish type of player i I think he has to change his approach

in order to get to the next level. Because, you know, like again, Steph is the ultimate example, but Steph does not dominate the ball. He could if he wanted to. He doesn't dominate the ball. He gets off of it. He uses his movement to set up other guys. He inspires his dudes to do the same, to play just as selflessly. It's like, I'm a top 10 guy ever in the history of this game. And look how selflessly I play. His guys can't help but play that exact same way. Trey doesn't inspire that kind of, you know, infectious sort of egalitarian ethos amongst his teammates. His guys don't feel invested in what he's doing. And so to me, Trey has to change all of it in order to be more effective.

I think there's enough there. We were probably too hard on him after game two, like how many teams would want to trade a real asset for him and stuff like that on this podcast. I was like, are there five teams? There's probably more than five that could talk themselves into it. I agree with you.

It is not really since younger Westbrook have we seen a guy that takes more stuff off the table, but also bring stuff to the table, like real stuff. On those high screens, he's really hard to defend. Like the Celtics, it almost discombobulated them because they were so concerned with making the right decision on high screens with him. His lobs that he can throw both coming off the screen, but then also like when it seems like he's going to shoot and just like the way his brain works for those and they have the right guys for that too. So there's that, he's a really good passer, you know? Um, and he, and he's not afraid, which is another thing you'd want. Then there's all those other things like the sensible moment, the 29, 30 footers for no reason at all.

The fact that a lot of times you see the other guys just kind of, there's three guys on the court who just, yeah, they're just kind of like, all right, I guess this is the part where Trey shoots again. So I don't know what to make of it, but I do feel better than I did after game two. I don't think this series was a win for Trey Young, especially because they're like,

oh, three straight 30-10s. It's like, all right, well, the 30-10 in game four, he had 22 points with less than two minutes left. They're down 12, and he scored 10 points in garbage time when it didn't matter. So do you want to give him 32 for that? I guess we have to, but I don't know. I don't feel like this was a win,

but I don't feel like it was as big of a loss as i thought he kind of held up but boston has a lot of good guards and i i didn't feel like they were like destroying him no and and i think he you know he for the most part they figured out ways to not make him look completely garbage until crunch time let's not get it twisted they were getting wide open looks and every single time trey young was involved in the action at one point marcus smart literally just walked in for a layup like that that actually happened to me well he did it he had like four slashing kicks right down the middle so basically the same thing over and over again for me the question is question is, I read the reports after Quinn Snyder got hired, and is this

I did? He's got a level of autonomy there. And I wonder if Trae Young has proven himself to Quinn Snyder. Because Quinn Snyder seems to be the guy that's coming with the juice in there, and he's got say in personnel. And I wonder if Quinn Snyder views that guy as a winning player. You know, a lot of coaches feel like, you know, I get that guy in my program with my winning philosophies. I'll whip that dude into shape.

A lot of people really believe in themselves in that way. I wonder if Quinn Snyder sees that in Trae Young or he sees him as a guy. I can't win with him. Guys are kind of annoyed by his antics. I already did the infighting stuff in Utah with Rudy and Donovan Mitchell. I want to do something different this time. Or it could be, I mean, a variation

of the first thing you presented of, there's talent here. I'm going to be the hero that taps into it the right way. Nobody's tapped into the talent correctly yet. It's going to be me, Quinn Snyder. I'm the to be the hero that taps into it the right way. Nobody's tapped into the talent correctly yet. It's going to be me, Quinn Snyder. I'm the one who understands how to unleash the beast of Trey Young. We've all done this before in our dating lives. We meet a man or a woman and it's like,

this is clearly bad news and probably not going to work. We're like, no, I'm going to be the one that makes this person realize the greatness within and then it ends in disaster and in a, you know, a cigarette habit. Well, this goes back to something I wrote in the trade value about when this new era of TikTok and Twitter, when these two minute clips of people that we both watch way back when in the 1990s, 2000s or whatever. And you can make a montage of anybody and make them look incredible. And then the caption will be,

you know, Stephon Marbury was a problem. And it's just two minutes of him cooking people. And he looks like the best player in the earth. Trey's montage can be 20 minutes where in the year 2052, they'll be like, Trey Young,

first ballot hall of famer. And the montage would be just him 29 footers, him with these lobs. And I don't know. My guess is he would be worth more to the Hawks than he would be for another team. The only way you would really think about it, I think, is if you're in the Dame Lower conversation.

Because that's one, you know, that there's been, there's already some Brooklyn buzz with him. There's some, you watch Miami playing without Tyler Hero. And you think, all right, could they patch together a little Tyler Hero and put Lowry's expiring for first round picks?

Is Dame going to even want to get traded? A lot of this we won't know until the lottery, but I do think Trey is a trade piece that could be sold to the right fan base as you have had nothing the last few years. Now you have this guy. He made the conference finals a couple years ago. I got to say, I was pretty impressed

as somebody that had to root against the Hawks for six games there and thought the series was over after the first two. I was impressed by some of their guys, man. Okonkwo is a good, good, good player. He's a good player. He's a playoff player. Capella's fine to have in your rotation. Sadiq

Bae, I think that trade was really nice. I've always liked Bogdanovich. I think at some point, he's going to have a moment on a team that makes a real run. Maybe he already had it in that conference final team. And then... My guy is John Collins. Been my guy for about two to three years now. I've been I've been waving this John Collins flag for so long.

But the problem was, you know, he mangled his finger on a shooting hand. And so he was no longer a threat to shoot from three. And it's like that vastly decreases the guy's value. But then tonight I'm like, oh, look at John Collins showing up, man. Like he plays so hard with so much force. You know, he's a lob threat. And when he's making his wide open three, he's like the perfect player next to Trey Young. He can he can pop or he can roll. He's a very versatile defender, can switch out onto wings, can give you a decent amount of weak side help.

I've given this Collins spiel a million times. But tonight, you know, you saw good pieces of it. He stopped shooting threes. Yeah, he couldn't make threes anymore. He is also the door A in the Kevin Durant-Sun situation where door A was basically they're going to trade for John Collins. And I don't even know what the trade was, but supposedly that was the road

they were going down and probably didn't have to give up that much, I'm guessing. Door B was Matt Ishby going in and going, wait, we can't Kevin Durant because you won't put Mikael Bridges in it? What? Put Mikael Bridges in the fucking trade.

And now all of a sudden they're trading Bridges and Cam Johnson, Jake Ratter's corpse, four first rounders and a pick swap to get KD. I do wonder like watching Collins today and just in general, like he's definitely a rotation player in the NBA. And if you had kept McHale Bridges and you kept Cam Johnson and you also had Collins with the way Booker's playing with Aiton, with Chris Paul, like, could that have still been a team that is in the mix in the Western real way? I feel like maybe it is.

If they kept their depth and was able to add John Collins, that would be a really, really good team. And I think to me, John Collins, he's not just like some rotational guy. I think he's a high level four man. If he's making his three-pointers. Don't get think to me, John Collins, he's not just like some rotational guy. I think he's a high level four man. If he's making his three pointers. Don't get crazy on me, Wes. If he's making his three pointers at around 33-34%. If he's making threes wide open at league average,

he is a high level guy. And I know I sound like his agent sometimes, but it is highly dependent on that three falling. But yeah, Phoenix deciding, I mean, it seems like it's working out pretty nice for them, don't you think? Yeah, I think they

would do it again, but I also think Bridges, Johnson, and all the picks they gave up at some point, you're going to have a moment. You wonder if this is going to be an SGA moment all over again? That would be the worst case scenario, yeah. I mean, the Lakers have not had that moment yet with that New Orleans trade, right?

It basically turned out to be Ingram and Dyson Daniels and that's about it. I'm looking at the FanDuel odds. You're not a huge gambler, but you at least understand the concept of odds. Yes, of course. What do you think the odds are for Celtics Sixers with Game 7 in Boston?

So Boston has 1, two, five, and seven. They're favored. What do you think the odds actually are in this series? I would say minus 400. So it's minus 290. That's a little, I gotta say

a little higher than I was expecting. I thought it would be like minus 200, minus 210, something in that range. I guess part of it is people don't know if Embiid is 100% all that stuff. For sure. Yeah, I think he's got a bum knee, but I don't know how. I don't understand the case for Philadelphia to win that series, barring some catastrophic injury to one of the main guys on Boston. I don't understand the Philly case at all

when you watch Harden not be able to get by a single person in isolation. Like, he is just barely looking at the rim when he goes to the rack now as far as, like, trying to finish over guys. And he's so reliant on that step back, or two praying that a defense is dumb enough to guard Philadelphia, um, conventional conventionally in the pick and roll. Right. Um, and so case would be Embiid is healthier than the Latinon. And Maxie goes up a level. Like to me, it's a Maxie series.

Whatever their destiny in that series is, is Maxie becoming. Every year there's a guy in the playoffs who jumps. And we talked in part one that Booker, as weird as it sounds, because he probably was headed for at least second team all NBA, but he didn't play enough games. And he was already the second best guy in the finals team. But it does feel like he's jumping. Then there's another guy that's not quite a jump yet, but then they make the jump from really good starter to, oh, that guy looks like he's going to be an all-star next year. Maxie's probably the pick of the eight teams left, right?

Who else would it be? Maybe you could say if Jamal Murray keeps cooking and turns into Bubble Murray again. I don't know who else. I guess I— I mean, some people might say Desmond Bain might be one of those guys. Oh, that's a good one. If he's able to keep it going where you're like, oh, this is one of the higher quality two guards. He's not quite in the Devin Booker range or SGA range,

but guys that just straight up fill it up and aren't a complete nothing on defense, like your Jordan Pools or your Anthony Simon types. I think Bane could really show himself. He saved them the other night. He was the best player on the floor the other night. Least afraid. Against the Lakers. Yeah, yeah.

And so I think Bane is one of those guys that we might, after the playoffs, be like, oh, holy smokes. This guy is, he's a dude. I joked about Obi Toppin. I'm not joking about Mitchell Robinson. We talked about him in part one. Mitchell Robinson, maybe that's the guy. What if he rips through Miami and kicks their asses?

If he's a legitimate, you know, eraser, defensive player of the year type, every single possession where guys are afraid to go to the rim and he's doing his stuff defending out in space as well, and he's just menacing people on the boards at every single turn. That is such a potent weapon, man, and a revelation. And he's done it in spurts, by the way, in the past. It's just he's never been able to stay on the court. But Tibbs absolutely loves him and has unleashed him and unlocked his skills.

And it's really fun to watch. Knicks are minus 160 favorites on Fandle against Miami. The series spread. You can bet how many games it's going to go. I'm just locking it down. Seven games is plus 160. Just lock that in. This series, like just by law, has to go seven games.

And at least three people are going to get suspended. And we know how it's going to play out. If you had to pick, gun to your head, Miami or the Knicks in this series, who are you taking? I can't go against Jimmy, man. I know I was very disrespectfully dismissive of the Knicks. I picked the Cavs to beat them in five games. I really thought they were just going to get grounded in the dust

on offense. Their offensive rebound game would be shut down. Their transition game would be shut down. And Cleveland's talent would overcome. I was painfully wrong.

Sorry, Knicks Nation. But the way Jimmy Butler is playing right now, and it's not like there's somebody on the Knicks who I think is going to just guard Jimmy Butler and put a stop to this. I just don't see how you pick against the best player since Jordan.

I don't understand that. I think Josh Hart could at least make him work. He'll put up a fight, for sure. The fact that they have better rim protection than the typical team going against Jimmy Butler. I was going to say better rim protection than Milwaukee, but Milwaukee had Brooke Lopez and Giannis, and it didn't stop Jimmy. I'd like the Knicks.

Yeah, I hear you. They got the home court. They're playing. I just look at that Miami team coming off this absolute high against Milwaukee. Jimmy plays the greatest series of his career. They get all this three-point shooting from some unlikely sources. They were relying on some people in that game that I think in a Knicks series, it might be a little different. You're in MSG, suddenly you're relying on Duncan Robinson, who's been in the attic for two years. Kevin Love, who got weighed by the Cavs. You know, the Gabe Vinson, Kayla Barton.

At some point, you're going to rise to the level of water that you're supposed to be in. And then the Lowry piece of it. I don't know. I really like the way this Knicks team is playing. And I would probably say Knicks in seven if I had to bet. But I wouldn't bet on this series. To me, I want to watch like two games. I had to bet, but I wouldn't bet on this series to me.

I want, I want to watch like two games. I want to get a feel for it. I want to see how they guard Jimmy. I want to see the Josh Hart piece. I think Brunson can cook the heat. Um, and I want to see if the,

if the heat three point shooting was just like super lucky for two games, that series might've said more about Milwaukee's deficiencies than how good the Heat are, you know? Yeah, I mean, there's something to one of the bottom half of the league three-point shooting teams. Just gets hot. Half of their three-point shots. I think there's something to that for sure. But also, I don't know that the Knicks are necessarily going to play

Kevin Love off the floor, play Gabe Vincent off the floor, play Duncan Robinson off the floor. It's going to be up to guys like RJ and Josh and all of these guys to really step up and make that a thing. Like the Heat are going to spread them out. They're not going to allow Mitchell Robinson to just hang out in the paint all series. This is not, you know, Mobley and Jared Allen. These guys, they have to be by the paint. They have no ways of being effective otherwise. I think tactically Miami's going to present different problems

for these guys because K-Love and even Bam to a certain extent out to 16-17, they're going to force Mitchell Robinson to play out in space more or else concede some wide-open threes. And, you know, again, I don't think the Heat are going to kill these guys. I think the Knicks are plenty capable of beating them. But the guys that they're going to be counting on, people like Quickly and RJ and Toppin and even Mitchell, these are young guys in big spots. And we see young guys, you know, sort of fold in these situations all the time and the heat of really,

you know, veteran laden. So, you know, I can't wait to see this bill. I can't either. I, the Knicks really won me over in game four,

game four and five for that cab series, because I really thought they're going to win game five. Cause I thought that's a mentally tough team. That's going to get it. And they're going to close them out because I thought that's a mentally tough team that's going to get it. And they're going to close them out and just be tougher. And they were. And I, you know,

I think that's part of how you have to be against Miami. I didn't feel like Milwaukee has been really tough against them. Jimmy out alpha to everybody on their team and talk shit to them. And bam was probably, you know, the second on the alpha scale. So I think the Knicks can match that. Golden State, Sacramento. I watched the fourth quarter again

trying to figure out how Sacramento blew that game. And it was because of Fox. Because Fox is hurt. And it wasn't just that the shooting was a little off. His handle wasn't the same. He had a turnover with four minutes left that was just a dribbling and traffic turnover. He just lost the ball. And the warriors as that game went along kind of figured out oh this guy's

not exactly the same and and you know monk kind of kept them hanging around i don't see the shooting from them and i it's not hard to pick the warriors and six when they're at home but i don't think this king's team is the same team that it was three games ago. The Fox piece was the biggest piece to take them because he was so unstoppable. They had nobody who could handle him. And he didn't look like the same guy to me. Yeah, and I thought, you know, the Fox piece is tough because his dominant hand is hurt right now. But also, I thoughtegan murray had sort of

found some things in the previous game and then he started off really nicely and sort of phased out you know those of us who are card carrying members of herder hive this has not been a good series for us um no herder hasn't been able to give them anything we have club carolina though exactly club carolina has never been better. Club Carolina, there's a line around the park. It's never been a trendier spot, that's for sure. But yeah, Hurd is their best shooter, you know. And the fact that he can't stay on the court

because they're scared of how he's guarding guys, that's been tough to watch. I think they got to get offense from other guys who aren't Fox. They got to get some shooting. I don't know who that is. Basically, you got to play Fox. If Herter's out, Monk and Mitchell. And then Sabonis and a

shooter and just kind of hope you can get to 130. But the Warriors, I think they know. I think they got that Harrison Barnes shot, didn't go in. Game five, they led the smackdown. I'd be surprised if Sacramento won game six with a Fox that's not healthy. And then Lakers-Grizzlies. Look, man, we're one Lakers win away from Lakers-Warriors.

If the league was ever going to step in and shade a game a certain way against this Memphis team that's been a little problematic this season in LA on a Friday night. Like, honestly, what are the odds of Memphis getting calls in this game six? Like, what are the odds? What are the odds that they shoot more free throws than the Lakers in this game? Um, you know, I think they got decent odds. They got guys that, that get fouled. I think more importantly, this team has not shown themselves to be very mentally

tough, Bill. I don't even think they're going to need that. They haven't shown themselves to be of the testicular fortitude. You know what I mean? It just hasn't been there for them. So a big game on the road. They look tough when they're up 20 at home

though. That Ches it gets super puffed. Yeah, Dylan Brooks, oh my Lord. Ever since his iPope Bears situation, it's been awful to the point where like, I shouldn't feel bad for the guy. I'm like, no, you're terrible now. You can't make a shot. It's starting to feel Nick Anderson 1995-ish

it really is is your career going to recover from this? I'm not positive, it will I think hopefully in the future he'll learn that he should never take 16 shots in any game whatsoever I thought you were going to say he's going to learn

in the future, feuding against LeBron is like fucking taking on Beyonce you might as well go on Twitter and say he's going to learn in the future. Feuding against LeBron is like fucking taking on Beyonce. Like, you might as well go on Twitter and say Beyonce's last album sucked. What are you doing? You have the hatred of 40 million Americans just cresting against you. You can't fight that karma. Yeah, that's tough. But LeBron, speaking of which, man, he doesn't look right.

He just physically, it's tough. He mustered the strength in overtime to get them over the hump, to put them up 3-1. But throughout the course of the game, he's not attacking anybody. He's forcing up these jump shots. He's barely making his rotations. Every now and again, he's able to summon the strength to really gather, get a runway, and do a chase down block.

But it's tough, man. LeBron has performed so many miracles in his career. You know, starting with the 29 of the last 30 points against Detroit. You know, of course, 2016, the bubble. Like so many times he's pulled a rabbit out of a hat. He really needs to do one last magic trick to get these guys over because if they don't win game six, they're not going to Memphis and pulling that out. I don't see that happening.

2011 finals. 2010 against Boston. Wait, what conversation are we having? I think the Lakers are beating Memphis and advancing and we're getting Lakers. Whereas we're getting Lakers. Whereas we're getting this final eight. That's just out of control where the Phoenix versus Denver is just going to be an elite, just can't turn away offensive series with some great players in there.

You have Lakers warriors, you have heat Knicks. Now we get, we get the, all the nineties, early two thousands highlights, get those again. And then Celtics-Sixers is probably the most famous long, long, long-term rivalry decade after decade that the league has. Because people would say Celtics-Lakers, but there's been, you know, the Celtics-Lakers. You got to play in the finals to make that happen. Yeah, they didn't play in a playoff series for 21 years.

The Celtics and Sixers going through the 60s, going in the 70s and the 80s over and over again. I think they played five times in six years. The Celtics and Sixers going through the 60s, going in the 70s, in the 80s, over and over again. I think they played five times in six years. And then they played in the Iverson-Pierce era

they played. Then they played in 2012, the last strand of KG in those guys. And then they played in the late 2010s too. It's like, this is, I think,

the most consistently good rivalry the league has. And there's a little extra mustard on it this year because, you know, if they wax the Sixers, I don't know what happens to that team. The Sixers? Yeah, I don't know where they go because what if Harden just leaves? Oh, he's just so thirsty to go back to Houston, Bill. Yeah, and what if Embiid says, wait, who's left?

I'm out. Trade me. We know there's going to be two, three unhappy superstars this year. So there are some fun stakes, Waz. All right. I can't wait to text you during these games. Thanks for staying up. Shout out to the Boston Heart Attack Celtics.

This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti as well. Thanks to Rob Mahoney. And thanks to Sheil for coming on part two as well. I will see you on this feed on Sunday. I'll also see you on Succession 1005 ET right after episode six ends on the Prestige TV podcast, breaking it down with Sean and Joanna. Enjoy the weekend.