The Bill Simmons Podcast - NFL Draft, NBA Playoffs, Boxing + Oakland With Cousin Sal and Andre Ward (Ep. 205)

Episode Date: April 26, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons welcomes back Cousin Sal to discuss potential NFL draft prop bets (4:00), the backup QB conundrum (10:00), the Pats' sneaky-good picks (16:00), a potential Jimmy G draft-day trade (19:30), the Warriors' 16-0 potential (28:00), Edmonton's Stanley Cup odds (32:55), and betting on the writers' strike (36:00). Then, two-weight world champion boxer Andre Ward joins (40:10) to discuss his Olympic gold medal in Athens (45:00), 12 rounds vs. 15 rounds (51:00), fighting Sergey Kovalev (58:00), contemplating retirement in 2014 (1:04:00), the rematch with Kovalev (1:14:00), the best Bay Area athletes (1:17:00), his favorite legendary fights (1:21:00), and the Raiders' exit from Oakland (1:25:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the BS Podcast with Cousin Sal and Andre Ward is brought to you by SeatGeek. That is our presenting sponsor. Since the early 1960s, find the best tickets for baseball, hockey, basketball, Hamilton, whatever you want. Last night, Clippers, Jazz, Game 5. I had a feeling a lot of people were using SeatGeek because I saw a lot of Jazz fans in the stands. There's no way they had Clippers tickets. I'm convinced they went to SeatGeek because I saw a lot of jazz fans in the stands. There's no way they had Clippers tickets. I'm convinced they went to SeatGeek. It is by far the easiest way to shop for the best tickets thanks to their revolutionary grading system. Buy and sell tickets in just two taps on your phone. Everything fully guaranteed. Try it out. Download the SeatGeek app today or

go to SeatGeek.com. We are also brought to you by TheRinger.com. I'm writing a column for TheRinger.com. It's about basketball. I think it's going up Thursday, Friday at the latest. But you can also check out all the great NBA stuff that we've done. I think we've had a really good last couple weeks, as well as all the other stuff, NFL, draft, pop culture, everything. And also, The Ringer NFL show is really heating up because we've got the NFL draft on Thursday. We have a late-night round one recap podcast with all of our NFL dudes,

Lombardi, Clark, Mays, everybody, and then we have another one Friday after round two. So subscribe to the Ringer NFL show right now. You can hear all that stuff. Speaking of the draft, Cousin Sal coming up. We're going to do draft odds and then an interview we did with Andre Ward

that I was surprised by how much I enjoyed. What a cool guy. All right, Pearl Jam, 1130 a.m. West Coast time. A lot of basketball coming tonight. We have Andre Ward in an interview that I taped last week coming up a little bit later that I'm very excited about. He was very interesting.

Right now, our road front cousin, Sal, we're hitting kind of a sweet spot for you. NFL is the sweetest of the sweet spots. I love it. It's great. This is the other sweet spot. NBA, NHL. Yeah.

You don't have to force yourself to bet WNBA games and arena football and the pro ball. These are actually live playoff games you have. Boxing, Cinco de Mayo's coming up. Kentucky Derby. So much. NFL Futures are goingoff games you have. Boxing. Cinco de Mayo's coming up. Kentucky Derby. So much. NFL Futures are going to be posted. You're back. I'm back. You want to say this is your favorite

time of year. I think it's blasphemous to include the time. See, even so. That's terrible. Because no football. You don't like that. There's no football. You can't say that. You can't say it. I like when I can just fill all of these TVs with games. Friday night, the Celtics and Bruins were playing in the playoffs, and the Red Sox were on, and there was another NBA and NHL game on.

It was just magnificent. What's better than that? Well, what's better is you can fill all these TVs and nine more on any football Sunday. With bad football games. You can watch Sam Bradford overthrow people on 3rd and 11th. We might get some good quarterbacks in this draft. You and I are going to talk about NFL draft odds. Yeah.

Because why not gamble on the NFL draft? It's already one of the most fun events. What came of gamble? Vegas already. Vegas said, why not gamble either? You can now legally gamble on the NFL draft in Vegas. Isn't that great? This is the first year.

In the casinos. Yes. Westgate. Some other sports books have it. And you can the first year. In the casinos? Yes. Westgate, some other sports books have it, and you can legally gamble. They don't have all the props, but they have a good dozen or so props. I think you should be able to gamble on everything, football, right?

Wouldn't you want to gamble on Leonard Fournette's Wunderlich score before he takes a test, or before the schedule comes out? That would be fun to gamble on. What the Sunday night games will be. Yeah, combine times for sure. How about who's going to fail a drug test with a diluted sample?

That would have been a fun little bet. I love it. That would have been great. I had him at 101. Unbelievable what goes on with these guys. Yeah, that would be good. So instead of being in the green room, it seems like one of these guys should just be in Vegas.

Oh, yeah, you're right. Like betting on themselves, like trying to make a name for themselves. Yeah, right under the board. Yeah, I'm going right to Vegas. That's interesting. Let the Raiders take me. That's interesting. So the biggest thing that jumped out to me when I looked at these odds a week ago was Deshaun Watson.

The over-under for what pick he would be drafted was 25, which seemed insane. Because he's Lombardi's favorite quarterback in the draft by far. There's been rumors of him going in the top 10. Why wouldn't we both be putting our mortgages? I mean, you've already bet your mortgage once this year. I did, yeah. You won successfully. Yeah, how many times is that going to work out for me?

Right. Well, Watson's 12 and a half now. You saw him at 25? Oh, so it moved 12 spots? Yeah, I never saw him at 25. It was 25 initially. Was it? Maybe it was a misprint.

Yeah, I saw him at 12 and a half. Okay. Excuse me. I'm already out. Jesus. You're like Kiki Brown. Thank you. That's a great compliment.

It's crazy that he's 12 and a half. Like, Trubisky is supposed to go ahead of him. And now we're hearing reports this morning from the Browns that Trubisky, or not from the Browns, there's rumors that Trubisky is going to be their number one pick. How is that possible? It drives me crazy. Like, Watson,ama has probably six

defensive players are going to be drafted and three of them possibly in the first round and watson torched those guys the last two years the last two bowl championship games yeah trubisky what do we have he was eight and five eight and four 13 starts right 13 starts he lost uh i saw the bowl game against Stanford. He threw two picks. Playing the ACC wasn't great. 8-4 in there. I don't get it.

So he's poised. So he has a nice completion percentage. He's good in the combine. Did well in the combine, yeah. Good interview. And everyone says he is absolutely the best quarterback. He should be taken first. But don't think of starting him.

He needs to learn. He needs to sit back and learn from frickin' Brock Osweiler. But he's a project. Yeah, he's a project. He's going to learn from Brock Osweiler in the first year. That's the guy you want. It's all working out for the Browns. And maybe Robert Griffin can come back and do some tutoring of him, too.

He'll help out, yeah. Yeah, Lombardi wrote a piece that I really liked for The Ringer a few weeks ago about some of the indicators that people look at it's not right or wrong but they're pretty good indicators and one of them is just did you start wherever you were did your team win it seems basic but yeah with watson it's like he's in ninth grade he's starting first high school team he gets to college he immediately starts starting for them and uh and he won everywhere he went and on the biggest stage possible did well we've seen guys who did well in the big stage who weren't good quarterbacks but

this guy actually has a lot of things you'd need the intangibles plus he performed yeah what's not to like i'm a jets fan this is who i want i'm like let's go down let's go down with somebody that i actually have seen do it right i think it think it's Watson or Bust. Yeah, I think he's the only one. It seems like the Browns and the Jets and probably even the 49ers are not going to do well this year. You might want to wait until next year anyway. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen are supposed to be

better than Trubitsky, but if you are going to take a chance, I think Deshaun Watson's your guy. Right. If you want somebody who can play soon-ish. Yeah, but if I'm Des watson i'm i'm ecstatic that the browns don't want me like i can fall to the texans who have really one hole to fill and that's quarterback and you can be on a what pick are they really good team are they 26 or something he's not falling that far no they're not they're not that number away why wouldn't the jaguars take

them hold on i screwed that up already the texans well they can trade up oh no they are they're 25 yeah yeah but that yeah so he'll go around 12 yeah that would be great why wouldn't jacksonville take him haven't we all watched blake bortles and bet against him and not had him on our fantasy team and yeah so jacksonville that's my best pick so far leonard fournette over under is four for a running back that's way high like of course it worked out with ezekiel elliott but there's so many more examples of where you can wait crazy jerry jones i mean that wasn't a rational football team exactly just worked out and it's the best offensive line of the decade to be playing on so but four nets over under is four

the over is minus 430 i jumped on it at minus 280 it's still crazy crazy odds but i'm looking for a push well to be clear over means five six seven four exactly yeah under is a lower pick but i don't see anyone taking four net before four the browns well i guess you can't accuse them of they're not taking a run they're not gonna take not going to take a running back. That's not happening. 49ers, same thing. No way. They need an edge rusher. Bears, I don't think so either.

No way. They're looking secondary. So I'm looking at at least a push here for Jacksonville. But you're right. Why not? They could take a quarterback too here. They have so many needs. I just feel like every year we come out of the playoffs talking about how important quarterbacks are. Yeah.

And unless you have one, your team just doesn't matter. year we come out of the playoffs talking about how important quarterbacks are yeah and unless you have one your team just doesn't matter like minnesota who fell apart for a variety of reasons but they just didn't have a by the way back in the mix they didn't they're not extending uh bridgewater they're not pursuing i saw that that's football's brutal but not not pursuing uh sam bradford either either, which is great. Because when he set that stupid record for pass completions, a completion percentage or whatever it was, they were all praising him, coaches and everyone.

Now they want nothing to do with him. So they're back in the mix too. What pick is that? They could maybe be four teams in the first round. Minnesota. Well, Minnesota traded their pick though. Yeah, they don't have a first round pick. That's, Minnesota traded their pick, though. Yeah, they don't have a first round pick. That's right.

They traded for Bradford. They may have to get back in that first round. Yeah. Well, we see it every year. You can't win without a good quarterback. You definitely can't win with a bad quarterback. That's why this Kaepernick stuff makes me laugh. Right.

Ah, 16 TDs, four picks. It's like we all watched football last year. Like nobody was ever like, oh, this Colin Kaepernick here he goes. He's down seven. Don't count him out. Whoa, he's down 21. You know, would you want him as your backup? Kaepernick?

Would you want him to come in and basically be Dak Prescott? I guess he could do a facsimile of that right for kaepernick to do that yeah i'm trying to think of what situation would work for kaepernick because the backup quarterback you're supposed to be seen not heard right you're supposed to be able to go in and do a reasonable impression of whoever the starter is so that would change the offense so so what team is that i don don't think so. I don't know. That's why all this kneeling down and the anthem, I don't know if it matters.

I don't think that matters. If you're not in the top 37 quarterbacks in the league, what does it really matter? Isn't that the same reason Tebow didn't get a backup quarterback job? Because he couldn't have just gone in and replicated what the starter did on any team. He's still Tebow. And your fans will be screaming for him.

Yeah. It's annoying. To cut him off. Yeah, I don't know. But there's a lot of good stuff. Yeah, let's do the odds. Let's do it. So four net's my biggest one. I like over four. I think that's at least a push.

So if you push that, you just pay the VIG in that sense? No, no, you don't pay anything. You're just like, and I'll take a push. Oh, that's wonderful. At this point for me, I will gladly take a push. McCaffrey. Christian McCaffrey, eight and a half. Everyone has him going to Carolina. He's listed as a running back. That seems too easy.

Why does everybody know where he's going? The NFL never works that way. Everything you hear is like, that's a perfect fit. What does Cam Newton need? He needs easy completions, and that's what he'll be in the slot. But other than that, where do you see Christian McCaffrey? Like on the Eagles? That top 10 seems high for him.

I think he's going to be good too, but what's a slot receiver worth? You might like over, over 8.5. I'm with Lombardi. Lombardi had O.J. Howard as the best guy. Really? And as the best offensive guy. That's also 8.5. Yeah, man.

If you get a monster tight end, would you rather have a monster tight end or a great slot receiver who could return? I think monster tight end. Yeah. I think that's the way. Monster tight end is, you know, the Pats for that brief second

when they had Bennett and Gronk together, it was like, oh my God, nobody's ever stopping us. And then Gronk got hurt. Yeah. I think it's a good spot. Are you okay with somebody being named OJ? God, nobody's ever stopping us. And then Gronk got hurt. Yeah. I think it's a good spot. Are you okay with somebody being named OJ? It seems like after the OJ murders.

Interesting. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because he's like 23. Like OJ Mayo, you'd be like, well, his name was OJ. You can't blame him. He was like nine when the murders happened. Well, wait, 23 was in 93, right? Well, the murders happened in 94. So unless OJ Howard's like 25 oh man that's either

oj murder that either the parents are like what the hell did we do depending on the month it was one maybe they're like the jurors yeah you know what happened i had no idea there's a murder that's interesting yeah you don't think oj anderson oj mcduff it's like yeah those guys are obviously he's our first post oj oj good. Good for him. Yeah. Post-OJ OJ. Way to knock the wall down, OJ. Now, this draft, they say, isn't big on offensive linemen. Usually that's it. And that's boring, you know, when the three of the first five guys are from, like, western Michigan. You've never heard of them.

So I think they might be taking more chances with running backs and quarterbacks. Will there be – how many quarterbacks are there? Three and a half quarterbacks in the draft. So Mahomes. Mahomes has been moving up. Trubisky. Trubisky. Watson, there's three.

Watson. And then Deshaun Kaiser is right at 31 and a half. Is that the guy who said he's next Tom Brady? Yeah, I think he is. He's across from Tom Brady. And who was the other one? Yeah. I don't know what he's saying. Keanu Reeves in the replacement, crossed with Tom Brady and who was the other one? Yeah. I don't know. What did he say?

Keanu Reeves did the replacement, crossed with Tom Brady, crossed with Lance Harmer. I think he just started naming sports movie quarterbacks. Yeah. And Davis Webb, the Cal quarterback, is now moving up the rank. So he could sneak into the first round. It's a strong name. Davis Webb? Yeah, it's a good name. I could see Davis Webb for a dollar at the end of the draft.

There are a ton of good names. No name is better than Mel Kiper Jr., though. It really is. It really is. It's terrific. I'm infatuated with Mel Kiper Jr. I like that he's aging to a point that he now looks like he's wearing a Mel Kiper Jr. mask the whole time. But it's actually his head and body.

It's great. There are odds at when his hair will be drafted and taken in the draft like a third round i think is early he's out of my favorite juniors he's four let's go over our favorite juniors i put sammy davis in there are these legitimate juniors legitimate junior jfk juniors way up there for me i love jfk so you put him one no he's just way up there i have ken griffey jr ken griffey i have sammy davis donkey kong uncle junior uncle junior Love JFK Jr. So you put him one? No, he's just way up there. Ken Griffey Jr. Ken Griffey. I have Sammy Davis, Donkey Kong. Uncle Jr.?

Uncle Jr. of Sopranos is five. Donkey Kong Jr. Donkey Kong Jr. and Junior Mintz. I have that. And Mel Kiper. Junior Mintz. And Mel Kiper's in there. But there are so many juniors.

Wow. That should be a whole other podcast. Yeah, you're right. Us doing the top 100 greatest juniors roy jones um yeah uh i don't know oh roy jones jr is a great junior yeah yeah there's a lot i like the one when uh i like when they do senior that's been one of my favorite recent trends what do you mean oh an athlete has like a three-year-old kid they named after themselves and they put the senior on the jersey it's great yeah it's so good that's great it's really good um here's a good one i like will the first place kicker be

drafted in the nfl uh in the nfl draft rounds one through three is plus 300 rounds four through seven minus 450 so after after the tampa bay got last year wouldn't they everybody be terrified to do this everyone robertoayo. Everyone had to learn their lesson. That's not, Nolan makes enough about that. That's a huge, that's one of the worst

draft picks in recent memory. They traded back to take him at 59. He went 22 of 31 field goal attempts. He was awful. And they were 9 and 7.

They missed the playoffs by one of those field goal misses. Just take a 5-9 nickelback like everybody else does in round two. Don't take a place kicker. Exactly. It's crazy. I think we go rounds four through seven. I think people learn their lesson. misses just take a 5-9 nickelback like everybody else does in round two don't take a place exactly

it's crazy so i think crowd i think we go rounds four through seven i think people learn their lesson did you notice it's just quick football thing yeah do you notice the pats stole the bills running back they did you didn't see that one no what do you mean oh which one they did right i must have looked past it because it was in my subconscious. The Pats just cherry-pick guys off the other AFC. It's not like we don't have a big enough advantage in the AFC East. Right. But every year we just grab, like my nephew's laughing right now.

Every year we just take two sneaky good guys from the teams that we play, and then they're better with us. It's got to be demoralizing. Right. If you're a Bills fan, you're like, fuck, that guy's going to be good for them. I don't like this. I don't like it at all. Don't trade with the Patriots.

When can we bet on the AFC East and the Pats? Probably in like two weeks. How high would the odds go for you to be scared off? So what was, so it's funny. We've had it at between minus 200 and minus 250 basically every year for the last four. Oh, I thought it was lower than that because remember both years. One year went way down. Well, even last year, Brady was for the last four oh i thought it was lower than that because one year

one year went way down well even last year brady was out the first four well that was that's when we wasn't it that's when we made our legendary bet i know but now it's pats and hillary oh good lord we did that's the greatest bet of all time that anyone ever lost uh but we didn't lose we just gotta throw that one in as soon as it's up yeah i think it's gonna be we're not gonna get a break here i think it's gonna be minus 400 i would say yeah i would say like minus 450 minus 460 something and i'm still not convinced with these browns they find the way to screw it up i think belichick could trade aaron hernandez for the number one pick i really do think like i don't know i don't how are they gonna screw this up it's terrible that they have all these all this control over the

draft the browns and none of our friends work for them anymore so we could speak freely about it but it's like it is does make it so much fun right it's they it's really the costar movie they have one and twelve they have some random quarterback they like that nobody else likes yeah it's great they're all analytics but then mitch trubisky's played like 12, 13 games, but they're all in on the analytics. These guys are some great 13 games. I think the Browns are like a homeless amputee

in Newark, New Jersey that finds a $10,000 casino chip from the wind in Vegas. They just don't know what to do with it. I can't cash this in. I'm going to trade it in for a turkey club sandwich. I think that's what... Just take Garrett one.

You have 12. You have all these other picks. Right. Move up to where you think you can get Watson or Trubisky, and you're done. Yeah. It's not rocket science. Watson and Garrett. Garrett's the best guy.

Everyone says he's the best. Sure. And you watch the highlights. Just take him. It's great. It's great. It's great. My fear as a fan of the dominant AFC force of this century, the New England Patriots. Yes. Tennessee's at five.

And they made a smart trade back last year where they picked up some stuff. And it was a good trade. That's what you're worried about then? I'm worried about them moving backwards again and picking up all these picks from the Browns. Because the Browns are going to want to come out of the draft with Garrett and whatever quarterback they want at five. And Tennessee's just stockpiling assets. They're now officially scary.

And they need a wide receiver. They need a wide receiver. That's what we're always scared about. Move back to 12, take Mike Williams. That would scare me. And they get an extra first-round pick. Yeah. I don't like that scenario.

How about that? If Mike Williams shores up that offense on Tennessee and then you have Deshaun Watson on Houston, all of a sudden that division is not laughable. Houston's not getting Deshaun Watson. No? They're getting the dude who thought he was Tom Brady and Lance Harbour. Deshaun Fizer.

Deshaun Kaiser. Deshaun Kaiser. They're getting him. Up the next Tom Brady. Let's see. Okay, so these are some more obscure ones, but you could still bet these. Jimmy Garoppolo, will he be traded on draft day? What do you think the odds are?

Oh, he's not getting traded. What do you say? Minus 350? That's way higher. No, it was minus 1,400. Oh. Yeah. He's not getting traded. That's the other thing No is minus 1,400. Oh. Yeah. He's not getting traded.

That's the other thing the Browns did. Now, they've only signed Osweiler to free up trades to get Garoppolo, and that didn't work. Pats weren't trading him. No. They looked at it. They just looked at the odds of Brady. He's 40 years old.

Yeah. It's like, however great he is, he's still 40 years old. Nobody's ever however great he is he's still 40 years old it's never nobody's ever been successful at age 40 at quarterback and brissette's not worth not rolling the dice with him no maybe the browns could go for him i don't know he didn't show quite enough in those in the little auditions i like him though yeah maybe they should offer him uh so um miles garrett being the first pick is minus 850 oh that's come on uh but the first pick being of defensive players minus 750 i don't know how that works um i like this we'll at least one team trade up to select one of the first top 10 uh overall picks yes minus 185 that's doable so that would be our cleveland 12 scenario right if they moved into the

top 10 moved into the top 10 or anybody else and it's happened eight of the last 10 years i think tennessee's trading that pick you do i think they're smart i think they just tried to turn it they do what belichick would do if he had those picks belichick would always trade back if he had five yeah yeah i guess so if you want like a Christian McCaffrey or a Leonard Fournette or one of those quarterbacks early on, that's what you would do. It's pretty hard to trade up for a slot receiver. Yeah, I guess so. I don't know.

Even if it said McCaffrey's son. What else do we have here? I don't know. We took over the juniors. We went over that. How about will Cleveland fuck up the draft? Minus 500. Is that a bet? There's just no way they're not going to, right? That should just be a bet.

It should just be the biggest decides. They just have to figure out what a fuck up is. How they screw it up. What about Jerry Jones screws up and drafts the Hooters waitress who's accompanying him in the war room. He accidentally writes her name down. Could see that in the third round. Do they still let him near the draft?

I don't think so. He's in a hyperbolic chamber. What else do we want to talk about? Mahomes is 22 and a half. He'll be right around there, I think. Mike Williams, McCaffrey. So what's your big bet? Four net? I'm going four net. I'm going for the push

over four. I go Watson. We'll get picked before the 12th pick. You like Watson. Yeah. All right. There's no way he falls past 12. Now, do we talk NBA? Yeah, let's talk NBA really quick.

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My listeners get 20% off their first pair plus free shipping you only have to go to me indies.com slash bs find out why me and my boys are so happy once again that's me indies.com slash bs back to cousin sal yeah nba uh golden state minus 250 We bet on them before the year that they would not win the title. What do we do? What do we do? I'm going to kill you. What do we do?

We made two big bets. I actually made three. You couldn't make the third because you have a vote. But House and I have hardened for MVP, and we're going to lose, and we're going to be furious for all the reasons you've been laying out. We had a whole text exchange a month ago that the Westbrook train had rolled to the point that you had to hedge the bet, and you guys rode the bet. We didn't do it.

Yeah. And I said, watch, Houston's going to win. I swear, check that chain. I'm like, what happens when Houston wins in five games against Oklahoma City and Westbrook takes all his shots? And that's it. Westbrook averaged 31 shots a game in that series. Look, he's a SportsCenter MVP.

Give him all the ESPYs in the world. He's a game in that series. Look, he's a SportsCenter MVP. Give him all the ESPYs in the world. He's not the MVP. It's just, it's not basketball. You gotta make your teammates better in some way. You can't make all of them worse. They all can't be worse in game 87 than they were in game one. And somehow all of them were worse,

except for like, you know, Jeremy Grant shot pretty well, but he was also wide open the entire series because nobody had to guard him because Westbrook was going one on three the whole time. To me, it's like, I don't know why winning doesn't matter anymore. And what the eye test and performance, all this stuff. Ah, Westbrook, I didn't have any hope. Have we looked at the last time a six seed player on a six seed won?

No. Not in our lifetime, right? You're going back to 1982. Moses, 40 and 42. That was his right? So 1981, 82, where the NBA just was not on.

It was barely on television. They tape delayed the finals. They had one national game a week and nobody knew who to vote for, and they just looked up in the stats like, Moses is averaging 31 a game. I'll vote for him. Did he rip down the rim that year?

Is that the only hype? No, that was Dawkins. Oh, Dawkins. I'm sorry. Okay. But yeah, Moses, if they do that vote over again with the numbers and stuff we have now, Bird would have won because the Celtics won like 60 games, and he was good. So, House and I are going to lose that bet.

You and I squeaked out boston over 52 and a half incredible we needed an amazing final week they beat the bucks second string they were down 18 in the second quarter and cleveland needed to tank the one seed and they really did they sat sat their players in like three of the last four games yep and uh and boss won that was nice the one we're struggling with. And God bless you. You've written 17 books and definitive books on the NBA history. Yeah. And we bet every other team but Golden State to win the title. Well, I was going by history.

I was thinking that the history says when you make a dramatic change and add somebody of the Durant caliber to an existing team, it gets rocky for a year right and history was wrong but let's use your alien theory like if you drop someone on this earth and then explain the 2016 season it's like well golden state was the best team they won 73 games and they lost in the finals really because draymond green got suspended for game five someone in the boss he punched him nuts. That was it. So they lost. Even though they were the best team,

they lost in the finals. And they're pissed off. They have a chip on their shoulder. And they added the top, one of the top five players. Let's take all the other teams. Let's stay away from them and take every other team but the Golden State Warriors.

It's got to work out. It was really a bet for Cleveland. I thought, my theory was that Cleveland was going to go back to back and lebron was going to cement the legacy and the whole thing right and still in play all right even though they suck defensively they still well that's surrounded by shooters they're still really good they can still shoot with the with the warriors two games are going to be they're going to be down a lot earlier and they're just gonna have to give up that game right they're gonna be down 18 they're like we can't play enough defense the problem is that the Cavs are never in or out of a

game and I say this on Twitter and then the Cavs fans get mad at me but I think it's great they're the most entertaining playoff team we have every game they're either rallying back from 20 or they're blowing a 20 point lead it's the best that's true i really like i've been enjoying their season now aside from that we're looking for a warrior sweep you think they could run the table the rest of the way um i don't think they will it's the first team since the 01 lakers that i feel like the conversation at least has to be had how hard would it be like i think they're gonna sweep utah or what will those odds be would that be a minus 150 or we'll be getting odds on that i think that would be to to go 16 and oh no just the next series

probably minus 200 oh really would be my guess don't jack it up people like the warriors imagine has there been a minus 200 for a sweep really? Would be my guess. Wow. Don't jack it up. People like the Warriors. Imagine. Has there been a minus 200 for a sweep in the second round? In the second round? Probably not. Maybe it'll be a little lower than that. That's really high. 16-0, I would say the odds would be plus 850.

Oh, wow. I don't know. It's really hard. Nobody's done it. I know, but the overrun, there's got to be two and a half losses the rest of the way. Well, see, that's a better bet. And that's what we should have been able to bet before the year. Every team should have what's your over-under for playoff losses.

That's pretty good. You know? And like with the Thunder, you could have said, I'll go under four and a half because I think they're going to be out in round one and you just do it that way. And then before the year, you go Knicks over on their playoff losses a half so what do you do that's good i like that or they're gonna lose 20 players yeah yeah that's good you know the uh the words i would say the over under i think three would have been fair you figure they

they lose one in round three and maybe two in round in the finals. So then if you go under that, they basically have to only have two losses. And again, it's like the 0-1 Lakers, I think went 15-1. The only loss they had was that Iverson overtime game, game one of the finals, when he stepped over Ty Lue and he went off. That was the only game they lost the whole playoffs. The Warriors team might be as good as that team. For sure.

So we're in trouble. We bet everyone else. We're in trouble. Everyone else. Are there any value? We have one thing in our favor. What is it? And this makes me feel terrible.

I don't feel good about this. Who'd have to get hurt? What? No, it's Steve Kerr. I don't know if he's going to come back, and they're going to have Mike Brown as their coach. Mike Brown is this guy that I never liked the job he did on the Cavs with LeBron. Then he goes to the Lakers.

That's a disaster. He puts the Princeton offense in. They fire him like five games in the season. Goes to the Cavs, lasts a year. He's getting paid by three teams at the same time, I think. Yeah. And he's the coach i like steve carr a lot but if not they're coaching themselves right if dave campo was

coaching the cowboys last year would you have been in frightened yeah i think it's a little different though okay these guys are five seven guys they're in sync and they know it's like coaching an all-star team at this point i think so could you coach the warriors i could coach somewhere between you and mike brown at least 12 and a half wins um is there any value in these bucks raptors raptors minus 600 uh bucks plus 425 for the series i think the raptors figured out the bucks unfortunately all right grizzlies 10 to 1 odds no no let's stay away uh clippers are done i mean if you're gonna clippers plus 315 the clippers are done they're done they they died last night so one of these game five is gonna lose i think tonight uh home teams i would say

the hawks wizards hawks are plus 170 that's a tie me, that's a toss-up. I think those two teams are even. That's going to be a game seven. Right. And the odds in a game seven will probably be Hawks plus 140 in Washington, something like that. In game seven, right. Wizards will be like a four-point favorite. Yeah.

That would be my guess. That's smart. And then your Celtics, it's plus 380 if you like the Bulls. And Rondo's coming back for game six. So we did, before the playoffs, we did a Spurs, Cavs. Celtics. Who's the third team? Oh.

I forgot that Wizards were 13. Damn. We need to start figuring out how to get out of that one. And the Celtics were plus 230 going into game three. Yes. After the Rondo thing. 230 going into game three. Yes. After the Rondo thing. And we had some texts about it. And House was like, I want a hedge.

And I was like, no, I don't trust this. And I'm just terrible. I'm just bad at this. It was. I loved listening to you with Francesa because this was before Rondo announced the injury and they were down 2-0. And you didn't want to talk about the Celtics. And he didn't want to talk about the Knicks.

And you guys forced each other. He just kept bringing me back to the Celtics. The brutality. Let's talk about the Celtics and he didn't want to talk about the Knicks and you guys forced each other. He just kept bringing me back to the Southern. So good. Well, that's it. That's the NBA. That's it. How about NHL?

Um, you don't like, you're now on this thing where my team got beat by Ottawa and Ottawa stinks and we're going to take whoever's playing Ottawa. No, I just didn't think Ottawa was very good. It was a really banged up Bruins team and they almost pulled that series out. I was not impressed. The one, so Edmonton is seven to one to win the cup.

I thought they, I watched at least two different stretches of two different games where they were just breathtaking. Right. Like they looked like the 81, 82 Oilers with early early gretzky oilers and not that that's gonna last but i don't know man the history of hockey with these transcendent guys in the early stages they always do it like a couple years before you think they're gonna do it right and i wonder with mcdavid if he makes it this could be it he's he's unbelievable he's fun to watch i mean he's definitely the best new guy that's come in since mario i think yeah so and they have a bunch of other good guys but yeah i think the caps pins

is if that if that's how it plays out that is going to be one of the funniest sports subplots i don't the capitals are so beaten down, the fans, they're so beaten down by that team and all the playoff history. And the Penguins have throttled them all these different times and it's just.

Poor Joe House. Ugh. It could be a bad couple weeks for him coming up. We could have Wiz Celtics though. What do you mean? Oh yeah. If both teams can just

win two more, our teams, we've never known each other when we had a Wiz Celtics series. Yeah. That'd be great. Hasn't happened since 84. Oh, good.

You're going to have to have him out for that. I'm going to fly. I'm probably flying back for that one. Really? Yeah. Nice. That'd be a good one. Yeah, the hockey, it's round two, and Ducks are minus 130 over Oilers.

Predators minus 135. Predators, favorite. 135 over the Blues. Caps, 135 over the Penguins and Rangers minus 150. So close. Should they even put money odds on hockey series? No. Each one should just be a pick-em. Exactly. A pick-em

and you can bet if the game's going to go to overtime or not. And that's also a pick-em. And most of them do. Or some of them do. That first round almost set a record for overtime games. So the most fun series in round two is Edmonton versus Anaheim. Yeah. The Ducks seem to screw us every

turn, right? God, I hate the Ducks. I'm so violently on the Oilers' bandwagon. We might have to bet that just so I can even care more than I already do. I hate the Ducks. So is there going to be a writer's strike? I kind of feel there is. i feel like there was uh so 96 came back with yes that seems that seems definitive eight nine years ago was uh

90 was yes yeah what's how do they uh why would they report a low number are those numbers fix report the good number yeah the russians got involved in this i hated the writers strike 10 years ago but this one seems a lot more nah it seems a lot more defensible it makes sense yeah i think you strike when you have to and in this case the whole business model has changed and the writers just it's not as beneficial for them it's clear there's no netflix it was like a whole whole medium not not around it was streaming back in 08 when we made the last contract there's no seven episode shows nothing yeah all that stuff i remember i lost a lot of money gambling during the writer's strike

well that's what i was gonna ask you like i wish you could bet on the writer's strike like over under 17 and a half days or will it happen like just to hedge hedge? Joe Putz has enjoyed that one. He's just been shaking his head. You're starting to lose a lot of cash here. Well, that's what I was going to ask you because last time this happened, it was during football season, wasn't it? It was, yeah. It started like Thanksgiving, Halloween

and ended on Valentine's Day. So yeah, it went a hundred days. Because we were doing the podcast. I had the podcast by then. We were doing the podcast. And you were in a very dark place. You were on weird football internet sites. You were so far into the football abyss because you had nothing else to do.

It was so bad. You only had like one kid at that point too, right? Yeah, the second one. I popped out the second one right as the strike ended. So I had to go right back to work. When the baby was born. The wife was delighted. She was already Had it

She had one kid You had a writer's strike Yeah In football It's crazy This time around You get the two playoffs So I

My guess is that It'll get solved Pretty quickly You think it will? Yeah I do I do I think last time It was

So It was so beneficial For Hollywood To kind of blow up The infrastructure This time around They're about to have The up fronts You really want to kind of blow up the infrastructure this time around they're about to have the up fronts you really want to have a strike during the up fronts it's not gonna be a ton of sympathy either for the Hollywood writers so yeah it's like we may have

to live with our nannies it could be terrible Netflix is giving uh all these people 20 million dollar comedy specials and they're bragging about how they're going to spend a billion dollars on content and all this stuff. It's a pretty tough case. Yeah, I know. It's interesting. Yeah, I kind of feel the opposite as I did last time. I think it's justified.

All right. All right, cuz. Maybe we'll have you more in podcast form. Can you imagine? On the ringer. Let's talk about that. Yeah, let's have a conversation out there about that.

All right. All right. Leonard Fournette, minus, or what? Minus 430? Over four. Over four,

minus 430. And Watson was what? Watson is 12 and a half. The over is plus 110. Under is minus 120. I also think San Antonio can beat Houston and I think it's now

a stay away for me oh heading into the playoffs I was like I'm banging Houston in I don't think Harden's been the same

since he got hurt really like with three weeks to go he didn't play well Houston didn't play well in that series OKC was terrible I think OKC

they were awful really screws you up in terms of predicting the next round like they could they could be really a lot worse than we thought. Yeah.

And Houston, you know, one in four, one in five, but barely beat them. Yeah. Interesting. I don't think that's great. All right, Cus, good job by you. Good job by you. Before we get to Andre Ward, if you're wondering how to get the funding needed to run a small business today, Cabbage has the answer.

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Visit cabbage.com slash BS if you listen to this podcast. And obviously you're listening. Cabbage.com slash BS. There is no cost to apply or set up your line of credit. And guess what? As a BS podcast listener, when you qualify for funding, oh yeah, you'll get a $100 visa gift card that you can use anywhere, but you have to go to cabbage.com slash BS. That is cabbage with a K K a B B a G E.com slash BS. And I should mention this Andre Ward interview that you're about to hear. When we taped it, Marshawn Lynch was not officially a Raider yet, and now he is.

So when we talk about that, that's why it seems like we're wondering if it's going to happen. Because it's a taped interview. But it is still really good, and he has a big fight coming up with Kovalev. The sequel, we talk about that. We talk about Oakland. We talk about a whole bunch of stuff. Andre Ward coming up right now. Andre Ward.

Undefeated. Never lost. You've never lost, right? Never lost as a professional. My last loss was probably 14, 15 years ago. I thought you were undefeated as an amateur no no no about 115 and five oh it's just been a while it's been a while so 2002 how long uh correction 20 years 20 years i honestly don't keep track of stuff like that. Yeah, so you were like a kid when you lost. I was a baby.

I still remember how I felt. It was a young man from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Yeah. Silver gloves. National tournament in the finals. What's the kid's name? Oh, yeah, John Revis. The taste of defeat is still in my mouth.

Decision or TKO? The decision. Very close fight. The taste of defeat is still in my mouth. Decision or TKM? Decision, very close fight. You know, we call those fights back, you know, at that age, 11, 12 years old, 13 years old, smokers. They go so quick. The three, either one-minute round fights or three-minute-and-a-half round fights. So you're kind of just slugging it out, and it can go either way.

So he won. He got me. But I had to fly all the way back from Kansasansas city back to oakland and i i didn't like the way i felt what what what is youth boxing where people are flying from cross country for fights the biggest i had no idea this happened the biggest national tournament of the year was before you make it to golden gloves which a lot of people are familiar with yeah it was a silver gloves yeah and um my you know only time you know during the year i get to see snow obviously coming from the west coast and the best competition

from around the world and it's your opportunity to get this beautiful silver belt to to you know kind of stake your claim as the best in that cat in that age group in the nation how old were you when you were like i I want to do this? I was 10 years old. My first love was baseball. I was a pitcher in a shortstop. And my father, Frank Ward, he didn't tell me that he boxed. And then he started to kind of tell me about his rivalries.

And I said, whoa, you boxed? He's like, yeah, you know, I just didn't tell you. I'm like, that's a big thing. So as soon as he told me that, I wanted to fight. My dad had 15 amateur fights. He was a heavyweight. He was 15 and 0. And at that time, he had a boxing program or a boxing team at his high school in the 60s.

So once he did that, I put baseball down and I picked up the sport of boxing. But you played a little football in high school too, right? Yeah, yeah. I noticed that. I did is that I did little tailback little strong safety yeah I mean you're such a good athlete in the ring I'm sure you could have done whatever sport you wanted yeah I often wonder about it too because you know at the time when I was in high school I was burnt out with boxing yeah you know I've been doing it like I didn't have a good childhood but I have a normal childhood you know I didn't have a good childhood, but I have a normal childhood. You know, I didn't go home and drop the backpack and go outside.

I had to do homework and then get ready to go to a boxing gym. You know, and my brother at that time, Jonathan, he boxed with me. And that helped because boxing is a lonely sport. Yeah, it's not the team sport. It's not the camaraderie. It's not all that stuff. It's like tennis, but you're getting hit. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. That's a good comparison. it's not all that stuff it's like tennis but you're getting hit exactly yeah exactly that's a good comparison and you know i just got to the point when i was a freshman in high school i was like i don't want to do it and you know i started doing track did a little track ran the mile ran the you know four by four relay those kind of things played a little football then it got to the point where i started getting getting a few looks for strong safety, but it was either, okay, going to my senior year. I totally would have guessed strong safety. That makes sense to me.

So you were thinking about it. Yeah, oh, yeah. So I started getting a look from Oregon and Boise, not a scholarship, but just a look. They let us know that I was on their radar. So I either had to put on 25 pounds of muscle and commit fully or go back and try to make a run at the olympics and i was just starting to get the itch again because i had taken two years off and um i went back and

here we are oh for you won the gold 2004 athens greece i won the gold uh shocked a lot of people i wasn't touted as being that guy but um and it really hadn't i'd done a lot you know you know in america and i fought a few top countries in what we call dual meets kind of one-offs uh but but i never won a world championship a pan-american championship and certainly not had ever had never been to the olympics so it was uh it was the first and a lot of people didn't see it coming and that that seems to be a recurring theme for you though because when Because when you beat Kessler, he was favored. What was that, 09? Yeah.

That Showtime tournament that I thought was a great idea. And the problem was it was just too hard to keep guys in the tournament. Guys kept getting hurt, dropping out. Which is to be expected. I mean, in retrospect, it actually wasn't as bad as it seemed in the moment. You had a couple guys fall out, maybe two out of the six guys, which wasn't too crazy. In the moment, it seemed in the moment. Yeah. You know, you had a couple guys fall out, maybe two out of the six guys, which wasn't too crazy.

In the moment, it seemed like the end of the world. It seemed like the tournament was never going to end. Yeah. But they replaced those two guys. The tournament continued. And obviously, it came to a crescendo with me and a guy named Carl Frotch from Nottingham, England.

He's a badass. Yeah, he was good. And, you know, i was fortunate to beat him i won the whole thing and um i may or may not have wagered on you in the kessler fight say it again i may or may not have wagered on you in the kessler fight because there was a little too much kessler love i wasn't totally buying it yeah it was tough though because i was afraid of that guy he's a good fighter he's good that's the thing like thing. People think you got to just credit guys to make yourself look better. Those guys are the real deal.

And you got to rise to the occasion to beat them. If I wasn't on point, I wouldn't have beat them. If I wasn't on point, I wouldn't have beat Kessler. What was your best performance against one of the top guys? Because you've had probably, I would say, six or seven guys that were just way, way up there when you fought them. You beat all of them. I'd probably say Kessler. Yeah.

Because going into the tournament— You rigged that one, though. You hit a hometown crowd. Yeah. But he acts for it. That's smart. He acts for it. He thought he was in a sports movie.

I want to go there. He acts for it. And that's the thing. He saw Rocky IV. He saw Rocky want to fight in Russia. He thought it was in a sports movie. I want to go there. He asked for it. And that's the thing. He saw Rocky IV. He saw Rocky want to fight in Russia. He thought it was a good idea. He did. And he underestimated coming to the Bay Area and coming to Oakland.

And, I mean, the guy had more knockouts. I'm talking about Mikael Kessler. He had more knockouts than I even had fights. Right. So there was no reason that he would think that this young kid with 17 18 fights would pose a problem so he said yeah i'll fight him i'll fight him the first fight in the tournament and i'll fight him in his hometown and it didn't turn out too good i got my first world title and i liked that performance the most because like that was a sink or swim

moment yeah like i had to show what i was made of all the talk aside all the potential aside like i had to show up or i was going to the back of the line and that was a bad time and you were in a brutal division too that was one of the best like that that 168 pound division which we call super middleweight yeah that was like murderous row it really really went for like three Yeah, yeah, yeah. As deep as it got. That's why I feel like the tournament was necessary. There's no way we would have fought that amount of good fights back-to-back without being forced to in the tournament. I love the tournament.

Plus, Gus Johnson was announcing at least a few of them. And he was, I like him a lot. Yeah, Gus gets excited. Yeah, Gus gets excited. I'm so mad that he doesn't do March Madness. I feel like the president needs to intervene or something to try to fix that. When you fight in front of,

like you've fought in front of your home crowd a bunch of times. Yep. Like it would make sense to me, like in basketball, the home crowd helps somebody. And in baseball, people are making noise. They do it for both sides

and never know how much it helps. Football sides. I never know how much it helps. Football, I don't know how much it helps. Hockey, it definitely helps a little. How does it help in boxing when you're so trapped in the moment and you're in this chess match with this other guy? Do you even hear the crowd? Yeah, you hear them. You kind of hear them fading in and fading out.

You know, it's kind of weird. Like being in a boxing ring can almost be like an out-of-body experience yeah it's crazy like when they say it's time to walk it's time to walk to the ring like you got to really stay focused and and be very mindful that you're the guy that's performing like you can't become a spectator and it's easy to start to drift and be like whoa there's a lot of people here yeah you got to remind yourself that okay hold they're here to see me i gotta stay focused and stay locked in even more so at home yeah and people they always act like fighting at home is a given but for me it's actually probably more pressure leading up to the fight well you got to worry about tickets

for everybody all that stuff you got cousins you didn't know you had. You got aunts and uncles. And then the aunts and uncles and cousins you do have, they're coming out of the woodworks. You haven't talked to them in a long time. Hey, you know, just getting ready to call you. That's pressure. Yeah. Then everybody expects you to perform. It's one thing for somebody to not believe you're going to do it and want to prove them wrong.

That's one set of circumstances. But for people to expect you to do well, to expect you to on for your city and and do it at a high level that's a lot of pressure so the the major benefit would be if you win after you win it's just that's the beautiful thing yeah once if you get through all of that and you don't you know allow yourself to get caught up to the point to where you do something stupid and you're too aggressive or you know you kind of get subdued in the moment and you don't perform. If you can kind of toe that line, it's the best feeling in the world.

Yeah. You hoist your belt up. The fans are going crazy. You're on the ring road. I mean, just everything is just the way you dreamed it. It's a perfect scenario post-fight when you're fighting. So you can't really, like, you hit somebody, they're a little staggered, they fall back, and the crowd's like, ah! You don't even hear that. You're just thinking, like, they fall back and the crowd's like, you don't even hear that.

You're just thinking like, I'm going, I'm getting this guy. You hear it. It takes discipline not to run in there and do something that you typically wouldn't do. Go crazy, throw 20 punches. But it's pressure, but it is an extra surge of juice and energy, man. You want to go out there and you want to show out. So, you know, you got to entertain and give the people what they came to see. But you got to do it within the confines that you normally do it in, if that makes sense.

Do you wish fights were 12 rounds less or more? Well, they used to be 15. I know. That's why I'm asking. By the way, I'm boxing since I'm 47. Ali was like my first guy. Yes. Wild World of Sports, 75.

So I've been through everything. Then Sugar Ray Leonard was my guy all the way through and 15 13 14 15 was when a lot of these fights swung yeah leonard doesn't beat hearns if it doesn't go 15 that's right and now it's 12 yeah and i feel like with haggard leonard actually that was one of the first ones where i felt like man if this was 15 i don't think leonard could beat him yeah like leonard had trained for 12 he was trying to steal rounds at the end. And he had been off. And he'd been way off.

It was smart for him. He negotiated 12 rounds because he knew, like, I'm a little older. I got this big layoff. 12 is probably all I need. But what do you think is the right number of rounds to know who's better in a fight? I mean, this is a part of me as a competitor. And, you know, obviously I was a little younger during that era, but watching the older fights that you just talked about, like, there's a part of me that wanted to be a part of that. And I want to be a part of that 15 minutes just to just to see how I would respond, because I know like things get real in 10, 11, 12, much less 13, 14 and 15.

But then it's 2017, man. We have a lot more knowledge and understanding about our mental health, our physical health. Probably from our physical health, 12 rounds is enough. Well, that would be like three rounds. Yeah. I mean, the Kovalev fight, you got rocked. And then that fight's still going, that's still going, and we're so fearful of concussions

and all these other sports and yet with boxing it's like well what can you do that's boxing the whole point is to hit the other guy in the head it's commonplace i don't know i don't know how we fix that and then i haven't really been able to fully reconcile it as a boxing fan it's tough you know because in football it bothers me and in hockey it bothers me and boxing it doesn't i I don't know why. I mean, if you look at boxing, if you look at the NFL, it's obviously a physical sport. It's a dangerous sport. It's a high collision sport.

You look at boxing, obviously our brains are not made to be hit by other people repeatedly for 36 minutes, which a 12-round round fight is and then you have to count all the training and the preparation leading up to it people don't realize that we actually spar like oh yeah live rounds you train your body to just take hits literally like three days a week and sometimes you're going there and you're not feeling the best you're still tired from the day before and you got to spar two three you got two three hungry guys licking their chops yeah trying to make a name for themselves so even the best of us who may be defensive and elusive you're still taking punishment to some degree i think part of the answer is just having an awareness and taking advantage of what is there like i have a hyperbaric chain you know i know smart what you

know i would have one but i'm not an athlete i would i would yeah everybody swears by it when you would you should get one well kobe was like the first one and that's when i knew something was up when kobe got involved because he's not gonna get something five years ahead of everybody of course yeah yeah i saw i did the research and and i and i made the investment and that's what i feel it is it's an investment for the here and now but then obviously for my future i mean if i spar and even though the technology is where it is in terms of knowledge of concussions and how to deal with concussions and mental health boxing is still decades behind yeah it's an old sport so what we found out to be a mild concussion or just a concussion, we say, oh, you got buzzed.

Oh, shake it off. Well, I mean, that's part of what makes you great is when certain guys get buzzed, they don't know what to do and that's it. But the really good guys, they know how to handle it. They'll get in the clench. They'll move around. Leonard was great at that. I mean, the Leonard Hearns fight. Hearnarns was I think the the lost guy from that generation

but he never totally knew what to do when he got buzzed yeah that was like he was either gonna get you or you were gonna yeah yeah it was one or the other but I but just to finish up what I would say I think you know it's just like at 33 if I take a good shot in sparring nobody will know but i marked that on the on the board and say okay and then i gotta go through my paces yeah you know i gotta make sure that i'm taking my brain for food omegas and different things like that that help i gotta sit in that hyper bed chamber i may have to sit in there two hours tonight instead of an hour just things like that where like you part of you doesn't want to acknowledge it you just want to kind of sweep it under the rug but i've got to be on top of this because nobody's going

to be on top of it for me and and the beautiful thing is is even though personally i have this knowledge i don't feel like i'm reluctant i don't feel like i'm shying away from contact it's just that i'm a little bit wiser and a little bit smarter about the sport that I'm in and the damage you can take. That's one of the things I respect about Floyd, who takes a lot of shit for his choices with fights and stuff. But Floyd's been hit less than any great fighter ever, I feel like. I can't even remember 10 times when he got tagged. You don't have that same luxury because of your division. I mean, now you're light heavyweight. But it's just Floyd can do that at a lower division.

I don't think once you get bigger, it's just too hard. I think you can. I just think me and him got slightly different styles. But people wouldn't pay for it, though. Yeah, well. If you're just going to do laps and jabs and stuff, it wouldn't work. He naturally is, he boxes more than me. He moves more than me.

I like the contact. Newsflash, you're much more fun to pay for if I'm paying for a fight. I didn't say that. I'll say it. You won't say it. Floyd, 90% of his fights, you say afterwards,

he's amazing, but I kind of wish I didn't get that one. Well, I will say this, in Floyd's defense, I think that Floyd gets a bad rap. I understand what people are saying to a degree he's even admitted some things that are certain fights maybe weren't that exciting but like for me like i appreciate the bruiser but i appreciate a dude who literally can neutralize your strengths and take away your best ass he's amazing yeah i i love i've seen him in person twice and it was interesting i went to the canelo

fight and it was by the fourth round it's like yeah canelo could fight this guy 20 times and he will never be probably true it never happened he's just too fast for him and his little angles and you know all that stuff i'm starting i gotta say i'm starting to feel that way about lomachenko i i lomachenko is from every angle he's so fast and good fighter I don't

yeah and I don't know you know the guy he fought on Saturday never had a chance yeah and

I don't I think he's gonna have trouble getting fights I'm sure he'll fight anybody but you know if you go in that you look bad then what happens

yeah guys know like guys know instinctively they can say whatever they want to the press they can say whatever they want on their social media but guys know if that guy's gonna give me trouble and there's plenty of ways to shy away from a big fight if you don't want it right so he's he's like guys gotta really count the cost when they fight top level guys and guy like loma chango being one like do i really wanna is this extra hundred thousand or hundred and fifty thousand really worth right what i'm getting ready to go through and uh he's that good that was haggler

was like that when i was growing up there was this four-year stretch when nobody would fight him and then you know it's gonna be a long night then they fixed the time he did win the he did he fit antifuermo whatever his name was yeah it turned out to be like a draw it was a joke yeah then he goes to England. He finally wins the title. They throw bottles at him. I love hackers. It was a bummer.

Never fully got his just due. No. You know, workman like fighter. You know when you're going to fight him. Bring your lunch pail. It's just one of those types of nights. And it's tough. You know, and it's interesting because if I'm not mistaken, after the Ray Leonard fight, he never fought again.

No, he went to Italy. Like, never fought again. He was so mad that he didn't get the decision. And he's still bitter about it. He's 100% still mad. Don't bring it up to him. I've seen people bring up interviews, this whole countenance changes. And it's like, whoa, this dude is still not okay with this.

Well, because he knew Leonard was never going to fight him again either. To me, that's the most polarizing fight of all time. Although the one you had with Kovalev has turned into a pretty polarizing two. Some people are just like, Hagler won. Give me a break. Leonard did not do enough. You got to take the title to be the champ, all that stuff. And then I watched.

I just feel like Hagler was off the whole fight. He was always off balance he was Leonard was always he was always fighting whoever Leonard wanted to do and then Leonard was coming in and stealing rounds and I just didn't think Hagler did enough it was a showmanship it was he won the crowd sense of the moment he won the judges it was like you're in fear the whole time it's like oh god he's gonna get get killed. But because of that, you were also rooting for him. Like when they did Legendary Nights, HBO. I mean, great show.

Love it. I think it was like 30 minutes. And it's like I've watched it 100 times. And every time I watch it, I'm on the edge of my seat. The stars and the A-list celebrities were like, they respected Hagler. But they're pulling for Ray. Like, Ray, we don't want you to get killed. We love you.

And then it was like, Ray's it he's he yeah he might win this and then like all of that stuff plays into the minds of the judges you know Rey was smart he waited for Hagler till after the fight Mugabe and Hagler beat the crap out of each other it's like okay now I'm ready to fight him I feel like uh Canelo's doing that with triple g a little bit triple d he's now 37 this last fight he has is he that old yeah it's 36 or no it's 34 i'm sorry he's getting up 34 yeah 34 that allegedly who knows but uh his last fight didn't look that great and if i'm canel i'm like wait one more year it'll be 35 when you're when you're in the driver's seat and you got a name like in ray lennon's case he knew that he could just make a phone call and he could get right back in the mix.

Same thing with Canelo. He's got a country behind him. He's paid his dues. And he knows that, yeah, you got some buzz, but you really need me if you want that mega fight. It's smart. It's chess. It's smart. The Canelo-Chavez fight is a smart one.

Cinco de Mayo two Mexican fighters huge fight for Mexico it'll be great that's a great and then that'll take him he buys himself more time and then Triple G will still be sitting there

the Kovalev fight after that first one which I want to talk about was there a rematch clause? yeah there's a rematch clause okay but there didn't need to be you wanted him again

what other fight am I going to take? there's no other fight that interests me that I can think of there's no other light heavy you're talking about financially or competitively competitively yeah like i got a track record you know and i'm not saying i'm the toughest guy on the block or anything like that but like i have a track record where we've consistently fought the best since i've turned professional of course there's you course there's you know there's places for tune-up fights guys that you know are top contenders maybe not championship caliber but once we have our tune-ups we always kind of look for the best

to give the fans the match-ups that they're asking for but then also to continue to you know cement a legacy my legacy is important to me so um once I made up my mind that okay you know I want to fight again a rematch with him was just academic can I tell you what I thought as a big boxing fan who followed your career I didn't think you were gonna take another big fight that's when you had those layoffs yeah and I don't know it's like 2012 you beat Dawson beat dawson and then you didn't fight for like another 14 months you got hurt in the dawson fight or after what was the injury after dawson it was a combination of injury yeah we fought a lawsuit and then we fought so it was like should

have had four to six fights in two years and i had two right so you just off and on stop and go yeah you fought like one fight in like two and a half years maybe? Yeah, I hit a stretch. At that point, I was just thinking like, I was just trying to put myself in your shoes because I think one of the things that really kills boxers is that the training and just the grinding. So, you know, basketball players aren't any different.

I remember Nash when he was near the end, Steve Nash. We were doing the finish line with him for Grantland. We were about you know it's not that he couldn't play it was that his body was breaking down but it was also the process to get to stay in shape and when we would talk about dirk and be like how long is dirk gonna play and he'd be like dirk could play till he's 50 shooting threes corner threes if he'd be like just put him in the corner, he'd be fine. It would be a question of whether he wants to put in the work in July, August, September, October. And as you said, with boxing, it's the loneliest sport. You're always on yourself to try to train. So I thought watching from afar, I was like, oh, man, I think he's done.

But then you came back. But did you think were you close to being done? Yeah, I was close to being done. Yeah. I mean, I had written a retirement back. Yeah. But did you think, were you close to being done? Yeah, I was close to being done. Yeah. I mean, I had written a retirement speech. Yeah. That I saved on my phone.

And, you know, one day when the biography comes out, you know, we'll put it in there. But, you know, it's raw emotions. I think it was in 14, 2014. I was up late one night or early one morning. And, you know, I just wanted to leave on my terms. It wasn't that the desire wasn't there. I actually had more desire than I ever had had because I was not able to fight against my will. Yeah. So the desire was there.

Just I wasn't able to and I didn't want to go out on anyone else's terms. I felt like I had given too much of my childhood, too much of my life, too much sacrifice to just allow somebody to kind of stamp me out the game. If I'm going to be out of the game, I'm going to do it on my own terms. And thankfully, man, by the grace of God, I got through that season, learned a lot. It was a necessary fight. I don't regret it. I needed to go through that. And I came out better on the other side. Let's take a quick break to talk about Sonos. If you want to experience TV, movies, and music with sound you can feel from a speaker you'll hardly notice, well, guess what? PlayBase from Sonos gives you just that. Its low-profile design practically disappears beneath your TV, and yet it fills your entire viewing room with epic home theater audio.

I just want to say that for years and years, we'd never really figured out home theater audio. And I fell down that road. i know some friends that did never totally satisfied things would break right away they've now mastered it check out sonos movies sports tv shows gaming whatever you got the slim low profile play base adds dynamic pulse pounding sound to what's ever playing on your tv it even streams your favorite music when it's off. It was created for TVs that sit on stands and furniture. No wall mount required. One power cord, one optical cord is all it takes. I love easy setup stuff. The Sonos app guides you through every step of the setup. Playbase securely supports TVs up to 75 pounds, which covers just about any TV that comes with its own stand. And it works with almost all TV cable box universal remotes.

The remotes you have are all you need. Everything sounds better on Playbase. See for yourself. Go to Sonos.com to learn more. That's Sonos.com. I should mention, I showed a picture of my setup in my office on Friday when I had the Celtics, Red Sox, and Bruins games all going on at the same time. And a couple people got mad that I had the wires exposed. Like I'm some sort of rookie.

My nephew's looking at me, Kyle. Like I'm some sort of rookie, some amateur that doesn't know that you don't leave the wires exposed. The problem is we're renting an office here in our building. And I can't put the wires into the wall because I can't really mess up the walls. So I'm well aware of the whole wire thing. I don't want you guys to think that I would ever take something like hiding the wires. Not seriously. Please don't think that I've been hiding wires since people even didn't even know you could hide wires. I'm like one of the original high wire hiders. That's it. That's all I had to say about that. And good thing about Sonos. You don't have to hide the wires

on Sonos. Just put it this playback, this Playbase thing. Just put it under your TV and there you go. Playbase from Sonos. Check it out. Sonos.com. Alright, here's Andre Ward. Do you think that if you had somebody, let's say Floyd's 25, 30 pounds heavier and you have somebody to measure yourself against, you know, like basically the bird and magic corollary of those two guys are just constantly measuring themselves against each other.

Now I think you're seeing it happen in the NBA, too. Like, Curry gets all this attention. Durant goes to go on state. Westbrook's like, nah, I want to be in. Harden's over there. And all these guys are making each other better. When you don't have somebody like that, especially as a boxer, do you kind of lose interest a little bit?

Not really for me because I feel like my path has been unique. I feel like nothing was ever given to me or my team. I feel like we didn't get any handouts. Even coming in through the front doors, what we like to call it, when you got a gold medal in an amateur pedigree, you know, it was always a question mark. Well, is he tough enough? You know, does he have a chin?

Is he going to make it? So I've never had a lack of motivation ever. You know, even, you know, during my highest moments, you know, those asterisks and those question marks have always motivated me. So I've never gotten complacent in the game. You know, even during the lean seasons when, you wasn't much going on you know i seem to always have something to fight for yeah all right kovalev how many times have you watched it i haven't watched it really not once and it's driving my wife crazy it's driving my coach crazy just i'm not interested in watching it right now. I mean, I got eight to ten weeks to watch it.

I was there. I know what happened. How much do you remember from it, though? Everything. Okay. I mean, I'm sure once I pop it in. We're not popping in. We're not doing VHSs anymore.

But once we turn it on, I'll see certain things. Studying it, knowing what happened because I fought, and then actually studying it. what happened because i fought and then actually studying it's two different things but i got plenty of time to do that i'm not saying this because you were here because you're here because i actually said it on the podcast whatever podcast i did after the fight i thought it was kind of a genius performance by you because you kind of solved kovalev as the fight went along and i don't know his conditioning is the one thing i don't know about whether he started to fade a tiny bit as it went along. And I don't know. His conditioning is the one thing I don't know about,

whether he started to fade a tiny bit as it went along. I think we got an answer for that. His latest thing was. The rematch? Yeah. Well, the latest reason for the fading was he trained too hard. Yeah. He said he was over-trained.

He said he was dead basically 30 days out. Just couldn't tell anyone. And that was the reason. So now he's going back to his old regime, which is less work. I don't tell anyone. And that was the reason. So now he's going back to his old regime, which is less work. I don't believe that. And he's supposed to. I believe he thought he was going to knock you out in the first five rounds and emptied his tank.

Yeah. And you waited him out. But I thought, you know, one of the reasons I've enjoyed watching you is, as I said, you kind of solve the dude as it goes along. You just kind of started moving closer. You got a little closer and you got in. You almost neutralized his punchy power by being six inches closer to him than he wanted you. How do you do that as it's going on?

Is it all instinct? I don't understand how your brain goes when that's going on. Well, it's great coaching, number one. It's weird because— So it's weird because so it's a cornerman telling you that it's my coach yeah which is he's my godfather so he knows me um it's weird as athletes though because you would think like dude you've been doing this most of your life why do you need him to remind you in the biggest moment to do the simplest thing but you're dealing with the lights the pressure emotions a lot of things And sometimes he needs to grab you and say, look, do this, do what we train to do.

And that's what he did. He didn't panic. He had a sense of urgency. He said, listen, man, Ali's been down. Sugar Ray Leonard's been down. Robinson's been down and they all battle back. Now's your opportunity. So he said that I was like, whoa, this is it. This is what I dreamed of. And I knew that mid range and in, Kovalev has no answers. If he did, he had 10 rounds to show that he had an adjustment and he couldn't make it. So I'm sure he's going to go back to the drawing board and try to make some adjustments. But he is who he is.

And at 33 years old or 34, however old he is, he's not changing. Well, he's a wrecking ball. I mean, I think he'll be the same guy he was in that first fight i don't know if he can adjust i don't know if there's a plan b for him whereas for you you figured out as it went along i i don't know what his this is why i love this because it's like you rarely get the rematch so soon yeah i don't know what his chest move is to counter your chest move like in the rocky movies rocky had you know he had a chest move every time right he is he's a little lighter in rocky 2 rocky 3 goes back to the gym but like i don't i don't know if kovalev's a plan b kind

of guy i think he is who he is i think he's just he's probably just thinking i'm gonna get him this time i think he is who he is and i think that who he is has always been enough. And it wasn't enough the first time, and he's not taking ownership of it. So that's like 101. If you're going to change and get better, even myself, I've got to go watch that film, and I've got to be honest with myself about where he was successful, why he was successful, and what I wasn't doing. I can't blame Virgil, my coach.

I can't blame the training camp. We can always tweak things, but I got to be honest, and that's how I'm going to get better and improve. And I just don't think he's doing that. I think the arrogance that he shows and the way he carries himself is going to be his downfall in this rematch. There's not a lot of love lost. I love when people say that in sports, but it really does seem like you guys don't like each other, which I enjoy. I mean,

I think it's real. You know, I think, I think, I mean, I don't hate the guy. Like that's too far from me. He may hate me,

but I don't, you know, it's not that serious. You know, at the end of the day, I want this man to go home to his family, get his check and enjoy his life. And I want to do the same.

But we got business to handle. You might hate him in 10 weeks as we get close. Strong dislike. Strong dislike. Strong dislike. Strong dislike. A loathing. I'll take that. Listen, I got a thing with bullies, man.

Yeah. I got a thing with bullies. I just do. I don't appreciate it. I don't like it. And I feel like I've seen too many of them in my career and life. And I actually relish the moment to face him. I forgot to thank you because I won money on that fight.

Really? Me and Cousin Sal, we parlayed you. When was that fight? What month was it? November. I think we parlayed you with a football team. Really? We like doing these boxing.

Yeah, we parlayed you with somebody. It's funny. I got to be honest. I was nervous after like round four. A lot of people were. We came back to the locker room after the fight and I looked at my family. I said, were you guys nervous? And they were like, oh my God, never do that again.

And they were like, boxing is serious. I was like, I've been telling you guys. But they'd never seen me knock down before. So it took that kind of moment for them to kind of see. But I learned a lot about myself. And I knew I was tough. I knew i had the grit and determination but you know i thank god man because you know i feel like he lifted me off

that canvas and gave me that drive to go do what i did and uh in that moment when you get hit in the mouth especially early you're either gonna pack it in and try to survive um are you gonna try to go get it back and It's a polarizing decision. I watched it live and I thought it was six rounds to six. I watched it a second time. I can't remember what round it was but it was like either six, six.

I was trying to talk myself into a seventh round for you but it was tight. That was a really hard thing to score but I do feel like sometimes you got to watch this stuff and just see big picture start to finish and it kind of falls in your head versus going round by round yeah and i just felt like you finished the fight better than he did the last the last half of it i don't know what that means i mean i saw i mean i and that's the thing like i've never disputed that it was close. You know, it's a close fight. And I take ownership of that.

Like, in my mind, okay, it shouldn't have been that close. In my mind, even though I was a challenger, I could easily say, well, I did better than you guys thought I was going to do. But the bar is even higher than that. Even though I was a challenger, like, I expect to do better. And that's what I got to go back to the drawing board to do. What were you thinking when they're reading the cards? Do you think you won? Were you like, I hope I won? No, deep down, I felt I won, but back to the drawing board to do. What were you thinking when they're reading the cards? Do you think you won? Were you like, I hope I won?

No, deep down, I felt I won, but you never know in boxing. You never know until they say your name. But I saw the scorecards eventually, and the 12th round sealed it. If I would have lost that round, I would have lost on two of the three judges' scorecards, and I would have lost a split decision, or a majority decision. Here's the thing, Kovalev. You're fighting in America.

You might want to win the 12th round. I mean, just... Some friendly advice. That's some friendly advice, but then even take the America piece out of it. Like, this is the biggest fight of your life. Yeah. Leave it all on the table.

Good training camp, bad training camp. I think he shot his wad in the first five rounds. I really do. I think he thought he was going to knock you out in the first five. He's like, he's not making it on the table. Good training camp, bad training camp? I think he shot his wad in the first five rounds. I really do. I think he thought he was going to knock you out in the first five. He's like, he's not making it to the sixth. So this time he'll probably be a little more, he'll bring it out. Well, the only problem with that is we're not going to let him. We want to pick up where we left off.

Okay. I mean, in my mind, it's going to be a situation. You don't have to convince me. I'm going to bet on you again. No, in my mind, it's going to be a situation. You don't have to convince me. I'm going to bet on you again. No, seriously. Like, it's going to be me or you. Yeah. I hope it's not me.

You'd definitely be me. It's going to be him or I. Yeah, yeah. Him being Kovalev. Yeah. Is this Vegas? Vegas, Mandalay Bay. You didn't think about doing it in the Bay?

They wouldn't go for that. It'd be pretty great, though. He was complaining about fighting in America. There's no way I could have got him to the Bay Area. Oh, my God. He's doing so much crying now that it's in America. I mean, I couldn't. I mean, there's no way we would have got him to the Bay.

Where do you rank in the beloved Oakland Athletes scale right now? I know Marshawn Lynch is one, two, and three, and then it's everybody else. I'm glad to be in the discussion, man. All those dudes are my homies cool so who is it who's who's like the inner circle open celebrity inner circle i mean i'm i'm cool with a lot of guys i mean you know we got a lot of homegrown guys too i mean not homegrown but you know like transplants guys like staff i'm not counting the transplants you're're talking about the... I mean... I'm talking about the OGs. Probably two of my closest guys are Marshawn and Damian Lillard. Guys that I talk to on a regular basis.

Damn. And Damian's a huge boxing fan. Like, as soon as he found out about the fight, like, dude, is that the date? I'm there. Because he missed the last one because they were in the middle of the season. Right. He's probably mad you had Curry lead you out for that one fight. He wouldn't say it. Did he text you?

No, he didn't text me about it. He's a good dude. But I know they battle four or five times a year. So if Bismo comes back to the Raiders, which it seems like it might happen.

I hope it does. That'd be incredible. I like, we have, Mike Lombardi works for us in the ring or is a big football guy. He thinks that the Raiders

should bring Marshawn back but not play him until late october and use him as a closer just you like last 10 weeks don't play don't go 20 weeks on them just go like 11 then bring in the bruiser cold tired good move right kind of is pay him in skills but he's probably got to knock off a little rest too yeah I'm not worried about Marshawn I'm still I'm a huge Patriot fan

like once a day I thank God that they didn't hand off to him again on second down I'm still mad about that that's an extra Super Bowl ring for us

like I don't get that yeah it was great I loved it you know what's a good idea not giving it to the guy who is going to get at least a yard every single time

the guy who's known for he had two shots I think so Marshawn dame leeward who else who else gary payton man i'm not og og i haven't hooked up with with gary but i want to like we know mutual people when he'll send word through people hey man tell joy he's been to some fights but i've never met gary payton kd draymond staff for the transplants, Clay. Yeah. Definitely. KD's bought in. KD loves the Bay. KD went from Oklahoma City to the Bay. He loves it.

I mean, think about that. He's just doing laps outside his house with his arms up. He loves it. I don't think he's upset. He's doing his thing. He's doing his thing. He's a huge boxing fan too. Like he and I hooked up randomly one night.

This was like during the time when I wasn't fighting and stuff. So this was like a good shot in the arm. Just checked my DM one night and I was like, Kevin Durant?

Like, we knew mutual people once again. We had never met or talked and he just had this like paragraph like, dude, like,

look man, I rock with you. You're my favorite fighter. I appreciate what you do in the ring but outside the ring but i was like man this is crazy and then we connected man we exchanged numbers and the rest is history he's a like big-time superstar of a regular dude maybe the warriors can do what the mavs did with tony romo put a jersey on you and just kind of try you out for one game or something man let me go with the second unit, third unit. There's a lot of, with boxing, it seems like basketball players

and rappers are the two people that seem to always be trickled around in the stands. I'm sure you've heard from a lot of different ones, right? Barkley is like the biggest boxing fan on the planet. Yeah, it's a lot of big boxing fans from every industry. It's weird. But you know, something about seeing two guys, it's not a team sport, obviously,

but two guys in front of the whole world, like, just going mano a mano to see who's the best. Like, I just think that intrigues people. It's still the best when you're there. The atmosphere is amazing. And after, like, touch hands and you go back and that sound, it's still, it's amazing. I mean, obviously, it's somewhat of a biased statement,

but I've been to all sorts of sporting events at the highest level. There's nothing quite like boxing. The only thing I can compare it to that I've seen personally, and I've been lucky enough to go to a lot of great stuff, is a great basketball game has the same kind of vibe. When it's like a game seven. Yeah, playoffs. And it's like everybody does their thing.

They're about to uh i just spilled coffee it's all good this is it's a touch guard though um but uh uh game seven it's that same vibe where it's like all right yeah it's in the crowds into it yeah you feel the tension yeah playoff basketball is definitely different yeah you know it's like that too but it's like these guys are skating around with helmets on. It's like you don't really feel a connection. I've actually never been to a hockey game, ever. So, yeah, the one recurring narrative with you is that you always feel like you don't get enough respect from the media and all that stuff.

That's not true. I know. I had to ask. No, I know a guy just recently put that out, just recently over the last couple of days. But if people really actually listen to what I say, it's not one time that I demanded respect. Nobody owes me anything. I'm asked about it. Like, do you think you get enough respect?

And my response is, I get enough respect. I get respect from the right people. I've never, that i can remember especially recently maybe you know i was a little younger but it's not in me to demand anything nobody owes me anything i know what i've accomplished you know i feel like i kind of know where i am in in terms of boxing history um but i don't demand respect that that's it that's a narrative that kovalev's team brought up at the press conference today, and we're just looking at him like, what?

Where'd you guys get that? Do you get along with Max Kellerman? Do I? Max Kellerman? Yeah, me and Max are cool. All right, good. I respect his opinion because I think he's seen every fight ever. All the fights, whatever fight happened, I think he's seen it over the last 15 years.

Boxing encyclopedia. He really is. It'll just flow out. It's kind of crazy. He's like a savant. I always feel like, I mean, I'm on the high end of boxing fans, but I'm not like the crazy message board boxing fans. But I have a good sense of all the major stuff that happened.

Max is at like 900 other levels than I am. But I can see that talking to you. Yeah. I always pay attention. You know if somebody's just kind of doing some superficial research and you know if it's something that somebody really loves and appreciates. You know what I mean? And it's a place for that.

Everybody's not a boxing fan, but it's just refreshing to see that you know your stuff. Well, I remember so I went, I did two, this is going way back, but I did two closed circuits. Leonard Hearns, Boston Garden. And everybody was rooting for hearns and people were i don't know why i don't know whether they bet on him yeah it was like 75 25 i was so upset and then the other one was leonard duran one

which almost brought me to tears because i hated duran so much he was such a good villain there's nobody like that in boxing now that but uh yeah i go way back durant was the only guy that i ever saw that could fight with rage and anger and get away with it yeah like it was genuine with him he just didn't like you he'd spit on you he hated leonard he wouldn't shake his hand after the first fight he was everything that he was and he was a pretty boy he was accepted you know and leonard came from you know a tough background but he was the golden boy what's your favorite legendary knights by the way minus the Chavez Meljik Taylor one probably that one's painful to watch that's why it's like haunting he had it was over oh my he took a beating in that fight though I don't know if

he's the same either way after that fight I don don't think he was. Chavez was like the Terminator. Yeah. I mean, what, one second? And his head was like made out of concrete. He took a lot of punishment. He took it. He had a concrete chip in his head.

I mean, you knock him down every blue moon, but man, 100 and something fights. That's why I like Lomachenko. It reminds me of Chavez a little bit. Not like his style, but just like,

he's just moving forward all the time. And the guy's just, you can't breathe. It's like I can't, I don't have, and he's just on you again. He'll pester you. Yeah. He'll touch you, pity patch you, and then before you know it, boom, he'll hit you with a shot and you're looking at the lights like, what happened?

What's his weight class? I'm blanking. I think Lomachenko's maybe 130, 126, 130, which is lightweight. Good. You'll never have to worry about him. I don't have to worry about him. He can put on 20 pounds, but that's not anywhere near you. It's still a ways off.

If he got to 170, that would be 175. That would be a little weird. But the way he does his thing, though, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried something like that, like fight a bigger guy, like really bigger guy. He's going to have to. Who's going to fight him? He breaks all the rules but gets away with it. If there was's the night if there was a boxing czar what would be the first thing you changed what if that let's say there's a czar of boxing president trump appoints

one and this czar is going to take care of situations like the one you had where you're suing your promoter and or the promoter suing you and all that stuff and but what what would you want to see do you do we need like a central yeah like one title pension pension fighter pension slash medical um yeah that's kind of crazy that that doesn't exist we have nothing you guys are like uber drivers we're on our own it's like we got nothing just put you in the app and that's it we literally have nothing now obviously it's our job to figure it out but you get a check alright take our cut see you later

there's no way to fix it though because every time there's a new young up and coming boxer to get fights they have to sign with a promoter you can't be Chance the Rapper and just be like I'm doing this myself I don't need anybody there's some independent guys you look at like devin haney he's independent young young up and coming you'd have to have everybody do that i think it's i don't think that the promoters are the issue i just think that there needs to be some government appointed oversight with bylaws and

rules in place that way yeah i can sign with X promoter or Y promoter, but they have to abide by this mandate, this rule. So if there's some type of pension, now obviously you got to get guys to pay into the pension. That's the tough part.

But then you got medical and this is all centered around life after boxing, which we don't have a very good percentage of guys who are walking around with their scruples and something tangible

to show for all the wars. I think Muhammad Ali, what happened to him and the condition he was in after his career probably scared away a lot of potential boxers. It's true. I know he was diagnosed with Parkinson's and all that stuff but all I know is that dude took more punches

than anybody ever. Especially later in his career, which is when you don't want to take him. Five years of fights with Ernie Shavers, guys like that, that just beat the shit out of him. It just shouldn't happen. He had so many opportunities. If you look at Ali's fight. He gets out of the third Frazier fight.

That's it. I think he's fine. Or you look at Zaire, Africa, with Big George Foreman. That's a perfect opportunity to walk away. They made $5 million in what? The 70s? The 70s? Or 70s or 60s? 70s?

75, 74. That's like $15 million or $20 million today. He's getting divorced, though. He lost half of it coming out of the gate. But that's always part of the story is, you know, mishaps there, personal life. You hang on too long. Now we have to fight to pay these tax bills, et cetera, et cetera. And that leads to the Larry Holmes fight.

Yeah, which is sad. I mean, Larry cried after to the Larry Holmes fight. Yeah, which is sad. I mean, Larry cried after that fight. Larry Holmes looked up to Ali, got his start from Ali, used to go to training camp in Deer Lake, Pennsylvania. That was his idol. That was one of the first 30 for 30s we did. I was involved. I created 30 for 30. We did um i was i was involved that created 30 30 we developed all that stuff and

this guy who documented that fight this famous documentarian we met with him to do 30 for 30. like if we had any ideas he's like i followed ali around before the holmes fight i think it's in a warehouse somewhere we're like what and it turned out to be this whole documentary and it's like watching somebody i saw that um i saw that 30 for 30 yeah yeah it's a great one recently actually it's calling me it's all good it's all good but yeah it's like it's poor ali yeah i didn't know and i think it scared people off but i didn't really i think you're right but i didn't realize he was in that bad of shape yeah his hand like there's scenes where he was's like this. He was already shaking. Yeah, yeah.

He had a bunch of fat around his belly. He was training at 30%, 40% of what he normally would. And in my mind, I'm like, why didn't anybody on his team stop him? No, he's an ATM machine to them. It's the checks. It's the money. That's another problem with boxing. It just seems like some of these guys have so many people around them.

And Ali is a great example he had the most yeah he had to have a whole camp practically and he probably barely knew half the people you know like so i went to canastota new york probably two years ago yeah boxing hall of fame first time ever there unbelievable it's like so bitter and so sweet all at the same time. Saw so many guys that I think Tito Trinidad, Felix Trinidad was inducted. I think Oscar De La Hoya was inducted. But then I saw a lot of guys who never

became champs. Just guys that I knew. I ran Barkley, Leon, and Michael Spinks. I had a great time being around these guys. But then it saddened me because a lot of these guys are shuffling in and out of the room. Yeah, they get a round of applause former champ but they got nothing to show for it they falling on hard times that's part of what i want to change in this sport yeah and i don't have all the answers and it's obviously going to take more than me but first and foremost

i'm just trying to lead by example you know everybody's not going to make 20 million but what you make what are you doing with it man michael spinks he had some big fights i mean a lot of these guys had big ass pay-per-view fights michael from what i understand did right by his money oh good he seemed to be fine mentally and tyson fight he said that's it i'm done and he saved what he had he made a lot of money that night i was in high school in that fight every we had i was the guy who had the fights in the bay everyone came to my basement for the fight big party yeah my mom's making food she came down with the food the fight was over because i don't know what you said he's already been knocked out it was like 90 seconds i mean tyson beats anybody how many times has tyson done that to people like seriously i. I think Ali is the best heavyweight ever.

I still think Tyson that night beats anybody. He was just locked in and the scariest person who ever lived. And now who knows? All right, Andre Ward. So I'm going to wager on you again. Don't let me down. Hey, man, I'm not saying do it, but I'm not saying don't do it. You got to trust your heart, man.

Listen, I know what I know. Okay. I think you figured it out. I think he's going to come out and he's going to try to knock you out in the first five rounds again. I think that is who he is. Weather the storm. Do your thing. If you need me to walk out in Steph Curry's place, I'm here.

No, I was going to say, can we get you in the corner though? Andre, settle down. As an advisor. We talked about this. Because you know what you're talking about yeah I like that I like what you just said

well I do think you need beast mode in your corner what else am I thinking about doing I'm thinking about maybe bringing out the whole Bay Area

I'm thinking about I gotta see if everybody can get maybe Marshawn oh like Marshawn Dame maybe a few of those people maybe a couple other people

that would be unbelievable all Bay Area cast we never talked about the Raiders we gotta talk about that very quick I'm salty man yeah i know it's almost that you don't even want to bring it up with people in oakland i'm salty about the warriors leaving too yeah so that was kind of an under the rate and the warriors are spinning it a certain way but it's like well it's 20 minutes away and it's like well but you're not in oakland right yeah i'm

salty about that i get it yeah you know i understand the business side of it and i talked to i know pretty much everybody in that arena i fought there six seven times i know everybody in there a good amount of people are going over meaning the workers the attendance people like that but there's some people that can't make it over there wasn't quite the same there anymore anyway oracle well once the team got good the irony of it was the fan base changed a little bit like that used to be the most diverse arena yeah you went there in the 90s in the early 2000s and it was like there was no nba crowd like that and then you could feel the money start to change it and then it became what it is it's still a very good crowd but it's not what it was and it'll be

interesting when they go from oracle to chase but i'm not happy about it and i'm definitely not happy about the raiders i still don't feel like there's a 20 chance the raiders don't leave i'm still holding on with both hands i don't know why i just can't believe it's actually gonna happen i can't go to vegas and people are just gonna go pay to go see the other team all that when they play the pats like there's gonna be 60 000 boston fans they're like come on that's what I mean. Yeah. But the silver lining would be to sign Marshawn Lynch for two years. Two to three. Oh, it's like an olive branch to the Oakland fans. If we can get that, it's going to be a little easier.

Pats are sniffing around on him now. That's what they're saying. We'll see. Yeah, it'd be good. I'd like to see him. All right, Andre Ward, good luck. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

That's it for the pod. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Thanks to Andre Ward. Thank you so much. That's it for the pod. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Thanks to Andre Ward. Thanks to Cabbage. They are proud to support more than 100,000 small businesses with $2.9 billion in funding. Visit cabbage.com slash BS. There's no cost to apply or set up your line of credit. And guess what?

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Don't forget about the Ringer NFL show. Night of the draft. Day after, right after round two. Couple shows coming up with all of our crew. Don't forget about the Ringer.com. NBA playoffs, NFL draft, baseball, pop culture, everything ringer.com. That is where my newest column is coming out very, very soon. And we'll be back on Friday with another BS podcast. We, I banked a couple of great guests, by the way, I'm very excited. Uh, one of them,

I Instagrammed already. It's a trade map from South Park. I think that's coming next week. Had another good one too. We are stepping it up here on the BS Podcast. Thanks for listening. See you on Friday. On the wayside, I'm a person never lost. I don't have feelings within.