The Bill Simmons Podcast - NFL Over/Unders, AD’s Big Night. a Jayden Daniels Report, Gambling Scandals, and Diddy’s Fall With Raheem Palmer and Van Lathan

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Raheem Palmer to discuss Lakers-Bucks and Pelicans-Thunder, before giving their instant reactions to the newly released NFL win totals for the 2024-25 season (1:31). Next, Bill is joined by Van Lathan to discuss QB prospect Jayden Daniels and how he stacks up against the other top QBs in this draft class (28:18). They also talk about NBA legends (55:10), the spotlight on Iowa women's basketball (1:10:51), gambling scandals, new NFL rules, Apple TV's 'Dynasty' documentary, and more (1:26:54). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Van Lathan and Raheem Palmer Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Sponsored by Empower. Not an endorsement or statement of satisfaction by a client. Visit empower.com for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, the NFL over-unders are out. Plus, we talk to Van Lathan about a bunch of things. It's all next. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest-rated sportsbook is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million-dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking,

I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive. They have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season.

Here's what you have to do. Visit fanduel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details.

You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite,

man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that are when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Light can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Light is the light beer with all the great

beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lights today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Hope you checked out the new rewatchables that we put up. It is the start of rock bottom month. We started a week early. We did Manchester by the Sea, one of the best movies of the last 10 years. Me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey. It was quite a pod. I actually thought it was a really, really good pod. Not a typical rewatchables, obviously, but sometimes you got to do an awesome movie. You can eventually watch that on youtube.com slash Bill Simmons as well. Go check that out. Coming up on this podcast,

Raheem Palmer is going to pop on from the ringer gambling show. Our guy, the dream. We're talking a little Bucks Lakers at the top, but then the NFL over-unders came out and that was the big surprise of the night. Fando putting up the old NFL over under win total. So we have some quick reactions to that. And then Van Lathan came on to talk about a whole bunch of stuff. We talked

Kaitlin Clark and women's basketball. We talked Jada Daniels. We talked Diddy. And we went all over the place. So this is, as usual, an Action Pack podcast. Let's bring in our friends

from Pearl Jet. All right, Raheem Palmer is here. We knew it was going to be a good sports night. There were some really good games. Two of them turned out to be really good. One's still going on as we're talking, but Pelican's Thunder was a fascinating one. Lakers-Bucks was a contender for one of the best games of the year, double OT.

Anything jump out to you before we get to the over-unders from those two games? Well, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, the Oklahoma City Thunder, I mean, they're so small. And I expected Zion to have like a big day and the Pelicans to be able to dominate inside. But I'm just constantly amazed about how poised this Oklahoma City Thunder team is. I mean, they blew a 20-point lead. But in the clutch, SGA can just get to wherever spot he wants.

It's just, they just constantly find answers. So I'm always impressed about, about the ways that they've just found ways to win in the clutch. There's a calmness and a poise to them because New Orleans fought all the way back. Right. And then it became, I think New Orleans was even up like by two with, uh, I don't know, maybe under three minutes ago. They were five or two minutes ago, and then they closed the game on a 12-0 run. Yeah, Shea hits a three. Jalen Williams gets one go in the basket. Dort hits a three,

and then they're getting stops on the other end. And it's one of those teams where you keep watching them and going, I don't see how this is going to translate to the playoffs. They're too small. They're too small. And then they win yet another game like the one today. I mean, McCollum was,

McCollum is to me the swing guy on that Pelicans team. Like he had some bad crunch time plays and the ball just seems to find him in these close games. And I wonder if it's one of the reasons crunch time wise. The other one, Lakers bucks, Lakers yet again, getting most of the whistles, which is now becoming one of the funniest subplots. Vane and I talked a little bit later about how it's happening with Caitlin Clark in Iowa too, but I'm watching Davis in that game and he's just head to head with Zion. He's matching them. And if you only watch that one game and you were like, which of these guys is going to be first team on Bay?

Which one is going to be second? You'd be like, man, I don't know. And Giannis is obviously going to get it over. He'll be first team. AD will be second team. But something about that matchup and no LeBron brings AD to this other level that makes

me wonder. It's like a what if. What would happen if that trade doesn't happen? What would happen if he just had his own team the whole time? Is his career slightly different? What do you think happens? I think back to that Portland series where he just absolutely dominated Portland.

Oh, 2018. Yeah, and they swept the Blazers. And I felt like that was a sign of what was to come with him and Drew Holiday. And then they traded for Boogie. That didn't work out. And then the whole Lakers thing happens. And then playing with Lebron is tough like

he's a guy who we all know he plays that heliocentric style of basketball and he kind of looks good but everybody else takes a step back unfortunately so it is unfortunate because i don't feel like he played to the level that we could have saw him play but he did have that bubble run where he made every single jump shot and he ended up you know they ended up winning up winning a championship. So I think things worked out well for him. I don't know if he was going to get a championship with the Pelicans or on his own team. So, I mean, it probably worked out as best as it could have possibly worked out for him. Yeah. There's an alter universe where I'm like, how great could this guy have been just as the guy, but what's been weird about this Lakers season,

I think they've won four in a row without LeBron. And the team kind of rises to the occasion without him. But they're also pretty good with him now. I think two weeks ago, you, me, and Sal, and JJ, we're on like a million texts about what we think is going to happen in the playoffs. There was a moment during this Lakers season where I was like,

I don't know, man. I don't know if they have it. But then you watch a game like tonight and you watch how good Davis was. And then you watch not just the stats LeBron puts up, but the pressure he puts on the other team and the referees. And you're just like, man, I don't,

I'm positive I'd want to see them in a 1-8 matchup. You know, I think there's some other teams I'd rather pick. I mean, if you're the Nuggets, I don't think you're worried about them. But if you're Oklahoma City or you're Minnesota, you're definitely scared. Those are the matchups you definitely want to avoid. And at the end of the day, beating LeBron and AD four times is tough. I know they came out of the All-Star break. They couldn't stop anybody, but the defense is kind of stabilized now. D'Angelo Russell, he's looked a lot better.

I know he was in trade rumors for quite some time. So I mean, he's figured it out. So I think this team is still going to be dangerous. I wish they would kind of take out Demwitty out of the rotation because he's bringing nothing to the table right now. But I mean, besides that, I think they're going to be tough out for anybody. And the bucks Dame, there's two versions of Dame this season. There's the one where if Giannis doesn't play and Dame has the ball all the time, all of a sudden it looks like Portland Dame again.

And then there's the versions like tonight is nine for 29, you know? And I, and the Lakers were trying to find him on defense and it was all that things. I was, I was a little bit worried about it's's not the reason the Bucs lost, but there was a couple of Dame time moments in this game

where Dame time, it wasn't Dame time, it turned out. Like, is Dame time happening? No, I guess not. I guess not in this game. He's just not consistent this year. And I don't know if part of it is just not having the structure with Adrian Griffin and bringing Doc in mid-season, but it just feels like the structure with Adrian Griffin and, you know, bringing Doc in midseason. But it just it just feels like the chemistry just isn't there.

And, you know, some nights he has it, some nights he doesn't. Like I was one of the last people who felt like the Bucs still had a shot because at the end of the day, their top tier talent in Giannis and Dame is going to be tough to stop. Yeah, but I just don't know if I could buy in with how they are defensively. to stop. But I just don't know if I could buy in with how they are defensively. Like, I just don't know. So, I mean, at the end of the day, the rest of the Eastern Conference leaves a lot to be desired.

Yeah, well, and Milwaukee was coming on in a way that they were at least becoming an interesting Celtics alternative if you were just going to short the Celtics or say, oh, Porzingis is going to make it for three rounds, whatever. And every time it feels like they have headway, they lose a game like tonight or they have a

no-show where you're like, oh, yeah. They just can't slap together the two, three straight weeks where I want to believe them. All right, we talk too much basketball. Christmas came early on March 26th. We got NFL over-unders out of nowhere. It almost felt too early, but Fandle, our friends, dropped them. And we're going to do a little Malcolm

Gladwell blink test. So I've done no research. I don't know what the schedule, who's playing whose divisions. I went through it and I wrote down the ones that just jumped out of me one way or the other, where I went, oh, that seems low or, oh, that seems a little high. And I just wrote those teams down. So I'm going to go through the ones I had. And then if I missed anything, you tell me what you love, but I have two categories. Okay. So I have my favorites, which we'll get to at the end. And then I wrote down nine teams that had jumped out to me. And my instinct was, I want to put money on that. But it was like, hold on, hold on, do some more research.

Just the nine teams that just seemed too high or too low. Number one, Atlanta, nine and a half. They were seven and 10 last year. And Kirk Cousins and Raheem Morris are going to be the two big changes, right? New coach, Kirk Cousins coming off Achilles surgery. And it's like, well, that's worth three wins. Is it? Are we sure that's worth three wins? Because my instinct when I saw that was like under, they're not going 10 and seven. What did you think when you saw that one? So I don't want to touch this one at all because I think it's priced properly. You're looking at a team who was 12th in adjusted games lost due to injury. And that's a

metric that I look at heavily. Were you healthy last year? Were you not healthy? You know, teams who are healthy, they tend to regress to me and vice versa. And then I also look at their Pythagorean expectation. They won seven games. They were expected to win seven games. So I think a lot of people are going to look at this and say Desmond Ritter, he was so horrible.

So Desmond Ritter to Cousins, that's three wins. Yeah, that's what people will say. Plus Arthur Smith to Raheem Morris, that's ruined. All right. We talked about them too much. So blink test, you're stay away. I'm shading toward under. Next one for me was Buffalo under 10 and a half. They were 11 and six last year and they've lost some people in free agency. And my instinct just immediately was 11 and six seems ambitious, but I don't, I just don't know. I'm tired of losing money on Josh Allen. So it's probably a stay away, but I was leaning under. What do you have? Well, I mean, you look at the last four seasons. Well, yeah, the last four seasons, 11 wins, 13 wins, 11 wins, 13 wins. So if you have a top tier

quarterback, you're typically in that area. But I do think the division is better. You're going to have Aaron Rodgers, regardless of what people think of him. The Jets have given the Buffalo Bills problems. You got to deal with them. You got to deal with the Dolphins. I think the Patriots are going to be a lot better. So I wouldn't be looking to play this over at all. Okay. Houston over eight and a half, they're 10 and seven last year. You know, young team getting better. So you like that one? All right. I'm all in on Houston. Yeah. So I thought that was going to be nine and a half. And I was confused why I was eight and a half, especially like they have one more draft. I still think they have some cap space. It's full year, CJ Stroud. I don't love

their division. All right. So we like that one. Bowled. KC is over 11 and a half. And my instinct was, oh man, just take my homes every year. But they did go 11 and six last year, but I did flag that one. It's hard for me to think they're not going 10 and seven. So there'll be either 11 and six, 12 and somewhere in that area, right? Well, they led the league in drops last year. So that's a big part of their six losses. So I think you almost got to be looking over here. Minnesota is over six and a half. And there's a lot of juice in that area.

That was minus 144 as we're taping this. They were seven and 10 last year. Cousins missed two thirds of the year. They brought in Sam Darnold. The reason I like this as an over and it jumped out to me is it feels like they're a trade up team for one of the four quarterbacks. And let's say they get Jaden Daniels. Let's say they move up to the pat spot of number three, or even if let's say Jaden Daniels falls to number

four and do a flip with Arizona and they're bringing in Jaden Daniels right away. Seven and 10 seems fair for them. What'd you have for that one? This is one I got to do a little bit more research on. So your blink would stay away? Yeah. I mean, they were one of the healthiest teams last year, and they overperformed their pot staggering. So without knowing who the quarterback is,

and this seemed like a team who was really just in rebuilding mode, I just don't want to touch an over right now. Okay. This is my favorite one. The Jets are 9.5. And I reacted both ways. The over is plus one 16 and the under is minus 142. And initially I was like, nine and a half, that's too low. And then I was like, nine and a half, that's way too high. And then I was like, stay away, stay away. Did you lean either way on that one?

I would lean towards the over. I just think their quarterback play was just so bad last year. Right. It's three wins. play was just so bad last year. Right. It's three wins. They were 7-10 last year. Yeah. So I would definitely lean towards the over here. So you think Rodgers in the place

of all the crap they had last year, assuming he's healthy. Mike Williams added to the wide receiver. Left tackle, Tyron Smith. Number 10 pick, possibly a weapon. Maybe it's a tackle. Maybe

it's Brock Bowers. Maybe it's another receiver. And the division's probably worse except for the Pats. Yeah. They won seven games in each of the last two seasons and they had total crap at quarterback. So I think Rodgers, I'm still giving Rodgers the respect. He can put up a 94 Joe Montana season. Counter to that one is Robert Sala. Are we sure he can ever win 10 games? Have we seen one thing from that dude that makes us think he's a 10 win coach? That's why I put it in this category. Just quickly, I know you're in Philly.

Philly, the 10 and a half is perfect. They were 11 and six last year. I lean toward under because I think they're going to be worse. And I think them going 11-6 would kind of be surprising, but I need to research that one more. Did you have a lean on that? So this is tough for me because I do think there's a little bit of value on the Eagles to possibly go to the Super Bowl. To go over. Okay. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I'm worried about the offensive line. I mean, you got a Hall of Famer retiring. So I'm worried about that. But I just think when you get rid of Brian Johnson,

he was just so bad at offensive coordinator last year. I think you bring in... This is a team who was 10-1 last year, and then the wheels completely fell off. So I have trouble believing that the second half of the season was real. I think it's somewhere in the middle. So I would probably lean towards the over. That's why I had it in a not sure group. Two more, Pittsburgh over seven and a half and Tennessee over six and a half. Pittsburgh goes

nine and eight or 10 and seven every year. So this is purely Russell Wilson is their quarterback line. And then Tennessee at six and a half, they're six and 11 last year. And they did a lot of good stuff over the summer. They have the seventh pick. I like their free agent moves, their trades, new coach. I don't know if it's going to be a new coach bump for them because I really like Vrabel, but not that great of a division. And if I had to pick between those two and I wouldn't pick if it's going to be a new coach bump for them because I really like Vrabel, but not that great of a division. And if I had to pick between those two, and I wouldn't pick either at this point, but I would probably lean toward Tennessee over six and a half. Which one do you like more of those two?

So Tennessee made a bunch of win now moves, which didn't make sense to me. They were a team where I felt like they should be rebuilding and they made all these win now moves. So now, I mean, you your six and a half win total, it's kind of dead on, but I just don't really want to play it. And then when it comes to Pittsburgh, we all know about the Mike Tomlin foodie. Like at the end of the day,

as long as TJ Watt is healthy, they're going to be in the mix for a potential playoff spot. And then I expect, I'm not big on Russell Wilson at this point in time. I think he's pretty washed, but Mike Tomlin has shown that he could win games with whoever's back there. And he's probably going to be the best quarterback they've had since the old big Ben. So you never

really want to go under on a Pittsburgh win total. And I'm, I'm the guy who typically likes to play unders more than anything else. Yeah. My thing is that if they can't hit the over on this, he's probably not the coach in a year right that'll be it if he goes seven and ten six and eleven that's that's probably a wrap he probably leaves all right i have four favorites but let's go to you what was your favorite blink test what was your favorite one the one that jumped out the most to you arizona cardinals over six and a half wins. I have it! Yeah, I mean, 29th in adjusted games lost. I mean, Gannon

has proven that he's a great head coach, and then you have a whole season of Kyler Murray. So you have those three factors. Wait, there's another factor. How about the fourth pick in the draft? Oh, yeah, and that too. So I just think there's so many things going for this team that, I mean, that's a dead nuts over to me. especially if they trade IU. I don't think they'll be better next year.

It's a nice spot for them. I also really like the way Arizona played. We were talking about it. You guys were talking about it on the Wise Guys show. In general, we were all kind of jumping on them down the stretch because they were pretty frisky. All right, so I had that one too. There's juice on that already. That's minus 128.

That was also one of my four favorites. Do you have anything else? So I'm going to let you go. I'm going to let you go. I'm still looking at some of these. So this was more than a blink test. I had to put this in the group. It was my least favorite of these four, but Green Bay over nine and a half when they were nine and eight last year with a young team that really got better as the year went along. Now one more draft. I don't really feel like they had any dramatic losses that made me too nervous. I like a full year of love. And 10-7, 11-6 seems reasonable. I'd be surprised. Over 9.5 means they'd have to just go 9-8 again.

How are they not one win better than they were last year so that one jumped out to me i can definitely see that one i like i need to look at their schedule i think that's the one thing that's holding me back um like i mentioned before i'm all in on houston like that's one that i'm like one of my favorites i already like placed a bet on them so you know yeah i like I love Houston. I just think they made, like, one of the biggest market inefficiencies in the NFL is a quarterback, a star quarterback on a rookie deal. Like, look at all the guys they signed. Dalton Sharks, Daniel Hunt, Danico Autry, like, Jeff Okuda. Like, that team is stacked.

So I'm all in on all of it. I mean, I'm on C.J. Stroud to win MVP. I'm on Houston to win a division. Like, any way I can get Houston, I'm buying in. I of it. I mean, I'm on CJ Stroud to win MVP. I'm on Houston to win a division. Any way I can get Houston, I'm buying in. I like it. My second favorite one. You're not going to like this. You know where I'm going. Where are you going?

The Dallas Cowboys under 10.5. They were 12-5 last year. You basically sat out free agency. I don't see it. I don't see how the Cowboys are like an actual contender this year. Plus, you brought McCarthy back for reasons that remain unclear.

You're paying your best players, I think, are going to be pretty expensive. And even the stuff Jerry Jones says about yeah, I don't know, we're going to have to work around the fringes. Their whole attitude this year just kind of seems like I don't want to say it's a transition year, but it's definitely not a typical Cowboys, we're going all in. We are here to win the Super Bowl. It doesn't have that vibe this year. So are they 10 and seven?

Yeah. But at the under was appetizing to me. And there's action on it. It's minus 130. So when it comes to win totals of 10 or 10 or more since 2000, they've only gone over 46% of the time. So if you just blindly just look at those win totals of 10 and a half or more and start looking under, I think you're almost fading the public. Yeah. Like, I think you're almost fading the public.

Yeah, like I think you're in a good position. Now, when it comes to this Cowboys team, I definitely agree with you. Like, I just, I don't know what they're going to do in a draft. It doesn't seem like they have it together at running back position. Like, this could be the last season. Who's your running back? I don't know at this point.

We should mention Brahim's a Cowboys fan. That's why I said, who's your running back? Is your running back the little guy? That's like the only running back of the roster, right? Yeah. I mean, Pollard went to Tennessee. Yeah. We just don't know.

And this could be the last season of Dak in Dallas because who knows if they're going to pay him next year. So it's just, I don't see, I think the division is a little better. So yeah, I would definitely lean under here. Well, that leads to my favorite of the whole thing. I think the division is a little better. So yeah, I would definitely lean under here. Well, that leads to my favorite of the whole thing. Washington, over six and a half, minus 142.

There's been some action already. They were four and 13 last year. Upgrading from Ron Rivera to Dan Quinn. I don't think Dan Quinn is Vince Lombardi, but I know he's better than Ron Rivera, right? They have, I think, six picks in the top 100. They're definitely going to get a quarterback right away out of the draft at number two. They did some smart free agent signings that I like. Just in general, it's like a new vibe, new energy. And I think the division's worse. You think Philly might be better,

but I also think there's a scenario where they might be worse. I know Dallas is going to be worse and the Giants, the Danny Dimes contract just feels like it's going to handicap them. Plus, they lost Saquon. Can they go 7-10? Come on. I can see that. I can definitely see that. I can see that with Washington.

I thought you'd be more excited. That was my favorite pick. Actually, I got one that I like. I'm going to I thought you'd be more excited. That was my favorite pick. Actually, I got one that I like. Okay. I'm going to go to your team. I'm going to go to New England Patriots. Over or under? I'm going to go over.

Oh, no. Okay. Make the case. Okay, look. You got a new head coach. And we all love Belichick. He's one of the greatest of all time. But I do think his message

is one thing. So you got a head coach who's, I mean, more suited towards millennials. You get rid of Mac Jones. How many games did he cost you guys last year? That's a big step up right there. Yeah. So, I mean, you look at this team, go through the games. They outgained the Philadelphia Eagles. They should have won that game. You go against the game against the Colts. They should have won that game. There were so many games last year that I felt like they should have won, and they completely fell apart, and they won four games last year.

I'm with you except for the fact that they treated free agency like they were at the 99-cent store. Every single thing about this off season has been a pretty much a disaster even craft at a press conference today and he's like i didn't i don't know what they were doing with that documentary he was doing that stuff and oh we we really wanted calvin ridley his girlfriend wanted to stay in the south that's the only free agent you wanted there was like 100 free agents um they still have a ton of money to spend that they just didn't spend.

And I don't really know what the strategy is. I'm worried they're going to trade back. Maybe if they trade back, that helps your theory. So the Pats were five and a half? Yeah. And then also, I mean, this was one of the most injured teams last year. Well, that's true.

They lost Gonzalez and Judon and a bunch of linemen on both sides. So, I mean, you have a team that's slightly underperformed in the play-off tag, one of the most injured teams last year. I think they were 30th in adjusted games loss.

You combine those factors, new head coach, better quarterback. Like, I don't expect anybody to play as bad as Mac Jones did last year. Counter. Who is the worst team in the AFC? Ooh. When you think of it that way, the pats over gets a little scarier because there's

usually two or three bad teams in each conference. Usually two is like a fair guess. But if you go through all the teams, they might have a case for being the worst team in the conference, at least from a talent standpoint. It would be them or the Chargers, right? And the Chargers at least have Herbert. They just brought in Harbaugh. You might say the Raiders, but the Raiders have at least a couple of blue chippers

on both ends. They're going to have a high pick. But the Pats are in that conversation. And that conversation usually means three and 14, four and 13. I thought over too, because I'm with you. I, that was a team that easily could have gone nine and eight last year. The QB and the kicker was better, but, um,

but they basically punted on free agency, which sure is me. All right. So you weren't excited about Washington. So it seems like the one we're the most excited about collectively is Houston over eight and a half. Houston and Arizona. Those are the two that,

Houston and Arizona. Those two. All right. So Arizona over six and a half? Houston and Arizona. Those are the two that jumped out to me. Houston and Arizona. Those two. All right. So Arizona over six and a half. I want to do more research, but it's just like the first two that jumped out to me. Those were. Well, usually the more we stare at this, this is when the unders start popping up. By the time we get to June, July, it's like, oh, under.

Oh, there's no way they're getting that. Dallas. I'll be really interested to see if that Dallas drops. If that Dallas drops, if that Dallas ends up at 9.5 versus 10.5 for over-under. I could see that going down one. What do you think about Baltimore under? Because they lost a lot of pieces.

I just don't bet against Baltimore anymore. Last year, I picked them not to make the playoffs. I was like, it's not going to happen. And then all of a sudden... You picked them not to... It's so crazy because... Yeah, it took some chances. So a lot of people... I was on them to be a contender last year.

I thought they had a real chance of going to the Super Bowl. But I think this year, with all of the pieces that they lost, and a lot of people are hype over Derrick Henry. I mean, you got a 30-year-old running back. And they lost a lot of pieces on defense. I think this is, this is the under to take and it's juice for a reason on FanDuel minus one 30 for the under plus one Oh six for the over. So that's, that's the under, I probably will be on. And then when you look at the fact that Joe Burrow is coming back,

like he, he's, he should be healthy at the end of the day, Cleveland, I expect Deshaun Watson to be healthy. And a lot of people are going to Cleveland, I expect Deshaun Watson to be healthy. And a lot of people are going to say, oh, Deshaun Watson didn't play well last year. Well, he was starting to figure it out. And that team still won 11 games with four different quarterbacks. And if you have a better quarterback in Pittsburgh, I think Baltimore takes a step back. Actually, I think this is my favorite. I'm going Baltimore under. That was great. I'm glad we talked it out. I'm so tired of losing money on Baltimore. And then when I rallied around on them,

then they killed me in the KC playoff game. Oh, man. Yeah, I think Baltimore, part of their strategy is they let some older guys go and brought it. And they're going to bring in young guys they've drafted and guys that were behind the older guys. Yeah. And this always works out for them.

And it's like, who's that guy? Oh, my God, that linebacker they have is amazing. I've works out for them. And it's like, who's that guy? Oh my God, that linebacker they have is amazing. I've never heard of them. So we'll see. All right, Raheem, thanks for blink testing this out with me. Good to see you.

We can see you on the Ringer Gambling Show all week, right? Most definitely. Most definitely. I turn 38 on Friday. So make sure y'all listen to the Rastradamus Show on Friday. I might bring some real life friends

and tell some stories about me while we give out some pics. So I'm getting old. All right. Happy early birthday. Thank you. Fandles putting the ball on your court for the rest of the NBA season.

Right now, new customers get $200 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's 200 bucks if your bet wins. I told you on Sunday night, I really liked that Rockets play-in bet, which I think was plus 800 over the weekend.

It dropped to plus 550 by Sunday night. Now I think it's in like the 350 range. That's still my favorite future bet. I don't know why that's not like a pick-em

between them and the Warriors. Anyway, bet on the NBA with a wide range of bet types including quick bets, live same-game parlays, player props, and more. And the wait is over, North Carolina. FanDuel, officially live in the Tar Heel State.

So visit FanDuel.com slash BS. Make your first bet a layup. FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit TheRinger.com slash RG. First online real money wager. Only $10 first deposit required.

Bonus issued as non-retrievable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals, can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday night hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. All right. We're taping this at 1030

Tuesday morning. Van Lathan was in the Ringer studios. He's wearing an LSU sweatshirt and it's fitting because I have a lot of topics to throw at you. We haven't talked on the pod in a while. We talk all the time, but somehow it becomes one of those things where we don't actually talk on a podcast. We're going to do it right now. LSU, Jaden Daniels. Most of my sports life revolves around the Celtics and the top three pick in the NFL draft. And I've gotten to the point. First of all, congratulations to you too, Van, because you can now watch every throw

that a quarterback has in each game. And it's just one after another for four minutes. Yep. So needless to say, I feel like I've seen Drake May, Jaden Daniels, and I didn't really need to watch Caleb Williams because we're not getting him,

but I feel like I'm caught up. I don't watch college football. I watch the one game a week. But now I feel like I'm the most dangerous person at draft time because now I feel like I have real opinions, even though I don't know what I'm talking about. But your guy, Jaden Daniels,

who is two years, 25 months older than J.J. McCarthy and a year and a half older than Drake May, who spent three years at Arizona State, then came to your beloved LSU. And last year had one of the great statistical seasons in the history of college football. And yet, I am scared of him for a variety of reasons. So before we go negative, go positive, because you love this guy. Let's hear it. Let's hear from the LSU fan why you love this guy. Love him.

Okay, so two reasons. A lot of people are going to point to the Heisman season as the reason why they love Jaden Daniels. To me, it's actually the season before that, okay? He wasn't as good of a quarterback in his first season with LSU as he was, obviously, when he won the Heisman. However, when you think about what he did in that season, it was revelatory because it was stabilizing. What you want out of a pro quarterback is somebody that can cover up mistakes and deficiencies

in the program and on the team, right? You want people, you want a QB who can make good receivers look great, that can make shaky lines feel a little bit better than what they are. And coming off of a season when LSU had lost, I think 35 or so some players, right? We actually go into the bowl game with a wide receiver playing quarterback. Jayden Daniels then comes in to L, and we don't have an offensive line. We have one of the worst offensive lines in the SEC and in the country.

We have new players starting in all different types of positions. And his talent and his skill set, we beat Alabama. We won the SEC West. Couldn't contend with Georgia in the SEC championship game. But we put the entire rebuilding year on Jaden Daniels, and it wasn't at all, at all, 8-5, 6-4 rebuilding year. It was a 9-3 rebuilding year and a win in a bowl game. So it's a 10-win season.

So when I saw that he could do that, that he, when things were crumbling around, when we were really putting a paper mache roster together, that he could like lead that team to victory and they could be a good team, I knew that he would take a step forward the next year.

And with a more stable offensive staff, with a better offensive line, with all of that, he actually did. LSU, he got better. He got better in another year under Joe Sloan with Cortez Hankton. He got better at throwing to the middle of the field, at using his weapons. He got better when things were more stable and you saw what he could be. So he was impressive last year.

We didn't have any defense or we could have won the national championship. the year before that he was what you want out of a pro quarterback which is somebody that can elevate the level of play of everyone around him well it was also his fifth year in college yes true covid year everyone got that it's fine bill whatever bo nicks has been playing college football since 1972 so like there's a lot of people out there that have that. And the number of snaps matter, right? The number of snaps matter. But also it matters how good you get when you have the experience, when you have the stability and the continuity that he ended up getting

when he came to LSU. So one of the cases for Jaden Daniels is that we saw this with Burrow, fifth year, his fourth and fifth years after he transferred, he shot up a level and then people were like, oh yeah, he was definitely good. That was definitely an awesome year. But he also had really good receivers. Those guys are going to be NFL stars. And yet Burrow's Burrow and he's great. So if you're going to use that against Daniels, you have to mention the Burrow piece. What about he played four ranked? Daniels had fucking amazing receivers too. Well, that's what I mean. So is that right?

But that's, that's something that you could ding him on because JJ McCarthy, who has been rocketing up the ladder. And one of the cases for him is like, that guy kept winning and kept winning. He beat Alabama. Okay. Who were his receivers? All right, so I want to say something real quick

about J.J. McCarthy. He's a gamer, he's a winner, he's all that stuff. You just can't watch, you can't have watched that much Michigan football and think that J.J. McCarthy is nearly on, nearabouts on the same level as these other guys that we're talking about. Michigan,

they won a lot of games. And Michigan had a very steady offense. But that was a dog of a team. That was a team that had, I mean, maybe not at the receiver position, but you're talking about Quorum at the back position. He could hand it

to fantastic players. They had a ridiculously dominant offensive line. They had some of the best coaching in terms of staff and the way that they ran their offense. McCarthy is a good player. But as far as what somebody would have to put on tape as compared to the rest of these guys, it's kind of night and day.

But how do you figure out the age piece of this? Because you're really comparing McCarthy against the third year of Jaden Daniels when he was still at ASU, right? That's when they were the same age. So if McCarthy stayed at Michigan for two more years, let's say McCarthy transferred and he goes to LSU for year four and year five of

his experience. And then he has two top 10 receivers. And two years from now, would he put up the stats that Daniels did? I guess that's the tough thing to figure out with this. It's not like NBA where it's like, whatever, whether somebody is 19 or 21, you kind of know what the ceiling is either way. And football, the years and the age, it feels like it's harder to figure out. It's like this variable I can't wrap my head around. I agree. If everything else

is going to be the same, you're going to have to start looking at the measurables then. You're going to have to start looking at size, speed, arm strength, what throws you can make, what throws you have made. Obviously, with continuity in an offensive system,

any quarterback worth his salt is going to get better. And the more snaps that you take, the more that you would think that a quarterback would be able to figure out his offense, make more anticipatory throws, throw into different windows, do things like that. And those are all things that Jaden Daniels did his last year at LSU that he did not do the first season.

As well as he played in that first season that I keep talking about, he wouldn't throw the ball to the middle of the field. Whenever he saw those reads, he would take off and he would run. He just didn't have the feel for it yet. And by the time we get back to last season, that's completely gone.

I mean, there's still people that nitpick about some of the decisions that he made and when he decided to take off and stuff, but it was different. So I'd say that that's a fair point about J.J. McCarthy. I just don't really think that he's on the same level as some of these other guys that we're talking about. And then when you start to get into the measurables of it and what you've seen from him, that's where I would make that case. He is a winner, winner though and he did

make big plays in some of the biggest moments so i can't take that away from him i just don't think he's on the jayden daniels drake may caleb williams uh level our friend noah malalay who you used to work with noah huge michigan fan. Obviously, I'm not going to get a completely unbiased opinion from him on this, but I was like, you love McCarthy, right? He texted back. He's a star. Lost one game in two years. No elite receiver against Bama this year.

Four minute drill down seven and semis. Drove right down the field. Athlete. Teammates love him. Intangibles. Monster arm. My only critique is he throws lasers. He throws too hard. Needs to work on his

touch. Harbaugh's a freak. He wanted to embarrass Penn State, run every single play. Had nothing to do with JJ. When it's third and ten, I felt confident his whole career. That was Noah. Just pass that along. I get it. I get it. And once again,

hard to besmirch JJ.J. McCarthy here. It's just not the same level of production. Different things are asked of him. It's an incredibly run-heavy offense. It's a play-action-based. It's just, things are just, it's different. I'm not saying that J.J. McCarthy's not going to go on and become a multiple-time pro bowler and stuff like that,

but I would just be hard-pressed. I wouldn't i wouldn't put jj mccarthy over michael pennix jr if the only the thing that michael pennix jr obviously is holding him back is the whole medical aspect of it right uh on that's an understatement i'm just saying that's like saying the thing that's holding back diddy's next album is some of the legal troubles. All I'm saying is that if you're making an evaluation just based on skill set,

I don't think that J.J. McCarthy is, and that's saying that nothing that Noah said, I don't think J.J. McCarthy is in the same conversation as the rest of the guys. I'm not sure I'm there with it either. And it's funny, like the more you look at these guys, you get excited about certain things

and then you get scared of other things, right? Like Drake May, who I think Drake May is probably the safest bet of those three guys just because of his size and his arm and some of the intangible stuff. Something about him too. He's already 230. Like what's he going to be five years from now? Like 245, 250. I think it's like the least room for error with him because of you know, he's got the basic body stuff. I

watch some of the Daniel stuff. When you're watching the every play, every play and they're showing all the scrambles, he fucking gets crushed. Sometimes, yeah. Like there was a play in the Bama game when he's and when he scrambles, it becomes a video game. I mean, if he came to the Patriots, he'd become the most exciting

Patriot of all time. Randy Moss would be second. He'd be first. But there was one play in the Bama game. When he's scrambling, he's scrambling. He's always looking around, making sure nobody's going to clock him. And some guy just runs behind him and grabs him by his jersey and throws him into another guy like a rag doll. And

it's like, oh my God, did he just die? He takes like, what, three to five of those a game where you're just terrified he wasn't going to get up? I wouldn't say he takes three or five of them a God, did he just die? He takes like, what, three to five of those a game where you're just terrified he wasn't going to get up? I wouldn't say he takes three or five of them a game, but he does take them. Remember, he got picked up and fucking slammed to the ground in the SEC Championship game.

The size and the instinct, he is a get the extra yard player. He is a I'm going yard player. He is a I'm going to go make the play type of player. I'm running out of bounds? No, no. Actually, I'm going to try to tiptoe down the sideline because I have to get three more yards.

I'm going to get the extra yard. And despite that, in the SEC, the most physically taxing conference in college football, he was there when we needed him. He took the big snaps. He got knocked out of the game against Alabama. It was back the next week.

I would say that there are parts of his game, from, obviously, the quarterbacking standpoint, but also from what you want to do physically that he would have to adjust in the pros, right? If you're going to add a little bit of weight. He's going to have to learn how to fucking slide. Yeah, slide a little bit more. That would help.

You add weight. Maybe that takes away from some of your top-end acceleration or your top-end speed and maybe your initial acceleration, but maybe that's a trade-off that you made for the NFL, but he's tough. He's tough,

man. He's a tough son of a bitch. That's a tough QB. He's there when you need him. He takes his naps when you need him. So, um, I mean,

the one thing with him when he's, when he's running an open space, it's like, I don't know if I've ever seen it before from a QB quite like that. It just gets to this level. I mean, we're talking about 15-yard scrambles that you're happy that it's 15 and you go, oh, shit. Because he just hit a gap you didn't think it was possible for him to hit.

And now that's a 60-yard touchdown run. There's a, and it's, they're winning plays as well, right? There's a play against Texas A&M where I think it was fourth and four. I'm at this game. I'm in Tiger Stadium. It's fourth and four. And we need a score, man. We lost to them the year

before. And we didn't want to lose to Texas A&M two times in a row it would have been a really embarrassing loss they were missing their qb they were on their third string qb our defense couldn't get a stop it's fourth and four um we're back in our side of it and we need to convert this fourth down we're going for it we're not like in the red zone or anything we're and he takes off down the sideline and it's a play you think okay we got the first down like nah jay's gonna put us in the red zone or anything. And he takes off down the sideline. And it's a play.

You think, okay, we got the first down. Like, nah. Jade's going to put us in a red zone. He just, he makes winning plays like that. I like that they kept using the Cam Newton QB draw play with him. But he would do it. He would be so, sometimes in the draw, when the QBs do it, they take the step back, they wait and then they go

he would do this thing where he would go back and then all of a sudden he was going the other way full speed like the way he would shift gears backward and forward, I've never seen that before the things that worry me in order the age, the fact that he turns 24 in December, I don't love that I don't love that

against the big teams this year you played four ranked teams. You lost to three of them. He wasn't awesome in the Alabama game. He made some good plays, but I wouldn't say he was awesome in that game. The score was 28-28 at the hash. What does that tell you?

Okay. What I'm saying is in the big four games you're talking about, you're talking about Ole Miss. Which games you're talking about, right? You're talking about like Ole Miss. Which games are you talking about? FSU, Ole Miss, and Bama. Okay.

Three losses. FSU, Ole Miss, Bama. So if we go through all of those games, the defense, not only did the defense give up the game up in Oxford, but if you go back and you watch the last play of that game, and this is just me being, obviously I'm going to be a homer here. If you watch the last play of that game, the last play of that game, I think LSU is maybe on the 25 or the 30,

maybe the 20, whatever. We're driving for a score with like three seconds left on the clock. Jaden Daniels scrambles around, throws a pass to the middle of the end zone that hits Chris Hilton directly in his hands. Like Jaden Daniels won the football game. Right. And we didn't catch the ball.

In a game where it was like 50-something to 50-something to where even a competent performance by the defense and LSU would have won. Florida State was just too much for us, I'll be honest with you. We didn't have, Florida State, we were coming out, we didn't have the right game plan for Florida State. We could not stop anybody once again at Florida State.

But if you look at the way he played in the game, he made the plays that kept us in the game until they ran away from us, right? With Alabama, it's 28- 28 at the half we can't get a stop we can't stop jaylen milrow the offense is under so much pressure every time we're coming out there he gets knocked out of the game we lose by whatever we end up losing by so i would say that that's true but we did have a historically bad defense last year. So another thing that, another red flag for me,

guy just waltzing into the draft process, not knowing anything. But what happened that Arizona State, where he leaves, he goes to the transfer portal, didn't like the coordinator, just was ready for a change. And he leaves and the teammates like trashed his locker and there's video and then the video is taken down, but there's still video of it.

And they were like, he sucks anyway. Like, I'm sorry, that was only two years ago. What happened with him and ASU? Did that worry you when he came to LSU? They were like, why didn't his first team like him? It did. Cause it was like, remember that movie Draft Day? Yeah, that was the first thing I thought of.

It was like, yo, why didn't the rest of his teammates come to his birthday party? I'm like, Jesus Christ. You know what? We should do a, we should revisit Draft Day. Is Draft Day as bad as what people said it was? We did during COVID, we did a rewatchables on it. I'm pro Draft Day. I think it's

good. I like it. When Draft Day came, you did a rewatchables on Draft Day? Chadwick's in it. I mean, it's a good movie. It's got Jennifer Garner's in it. There's like real actors in it. I like the movie. The movie comes on TV

that I watch it, but no. It's got fun things to make fun of. Like the trades are absurd. There's some of the dumbest trades anyone's ever made in real life or in a movie, but it's still a fun of. Like the trades are absurd. There's some of the dumbest trades anyone's ever made in real life or in a movie, but it's still a fun watch. So that did concern me. Yeah.

It just didn't exist at LSU. Well, how good are neighbors and how good is Thomas? How good are neighbors and Thomas? Because neighbors to me, looks like he's fucking Tyreek Hill. It's like we're running it back

as Tyreek Hill 2.0. Fucking insane. How does neighbors not go in the top five? He's going to be open for 10 years. They are insanely good. And BTJ, so this is the whole thing

when Justin Jefferson was coming out, and you guys, everybody's listening to this, they're annoyed with Van. I'm a homer. I'm definitely a homer. BTJ has more of an NFL-ready body than Neighbors does. BTJ led the team, maybe led the nation, I think, in touchdown grabs. Malik is so sudden. He's so tough.

He's a dog. But those two guys are insanely good. Those two guys literally are Chase and Jefferson 2.0. BTJ is not quite the route runner that Justin Jefferson was, and I don't think that Neighbors is quite as strong as Jamar Chase was, but he's faster than Jamar Chase. He's faster than everybody. Who's he's faster than Jamar Chase. He's faster than everybody. Who's he not faster than? Right.

So, I mean, those two guys were fantastic players. Fantastic players. Would you take neighbors over Harrison? It's an interesting one, right? Yeah. So, neighbors has a higher ceiling. it's an interesting one right yeah so uh neighbors has a higher ceiling but Harrison is just

Harrison is one of the most pro ready wide receivers I've ever seen before he's just like who's Harrison to you Andre Johnson you know like he's just he's one of the most pro ready to you? Andre Johnson? You know? Like, he's just one of the most pro-ready

wide receivers I've ever seen. He's not the terror to take the top off the defense like that. But he just catches everything and it doesn't matter who's on him. He's strong, smart. Now, there have been some people that have looked at his tape and said he dogs it sometimes, that he doesn't matter who's on him. Big, strong, smart. Now, there have been some people that have looked at his tape

and say he dogs it sometimes, that he doesn't get into every single route like he should get into every single route. I did not watch enough of Ohio State to see that. All I saw was a receiver that you could put the whole game on his back. That McCord, who was not even at Ohio State anymore, could say, look, my offense is getting the ball

to Marvin Harrison, and we'll win the game like that. It's tough for me to say, do I personally believe that Malik Nabors is a more explosive, dynamic player than Marvin Harrison? Yeah. Marvin Harrison just took over games when there was no other option where they were not, when there was no other option, they had a decent wide receiver room that pretty good wide receiver room. But when he was the whole ball of wax, he just took over games. I mean, if I was the Cardinals and I know I'm probably ending up with a receiver and everyone has Harrison going on them, but the

giants are at six and McCarthy has now climbed up where he's in the conversation with those other three QBs. I would go back two spots, pick stuff up, and then just take whichever receivers left. Seems like the smart move.

To be honest with you, it just depends on once again, it depends on what you need. Like, BTJ went 4-3 at the combine. Right. So it's like, for him to be 6-2, 6-3, like, he's that big, that fast, that tough. Yeah, what happens if the Jets take him at 10?

Yeah. And they put him with Garrett Wilson and Mike Williams. Jesus. All right, we got to wrap this segment up. But give me your four quarterbacks. Give me the order. Is Caleb one for you? He would have to be, although I have real issues.

But he would have to be. But I really prioritize what you did in college. So it would be Caleb. It's pretty much the way it goes. It would be Caleb. I'm going to give you heart picks and head picks. The head picks are Caleb, Drake May, Daniels, and then I put Michael Penix

Jr. there. I really do. The medical thing, I get it. The heart pick is Caleb, Jay Daniels, Drake May, and then Michael Penis Jr. Drake May is going to be a great pro, though. He really is.

He's going to be a great pro. I can't think of five quarterbacks who've had a cooler quarterback name than Drake May. Yeah, he's also just a cool-ass dude. Have you seen him in some of the interviews and stuff that he's been doing? I have. I've scouted all of his interviews. He's just a cool-ass dude.

He's a very confident guy. He doesn't get flustered. I'm high on him. I think he's just a cool-ass dude. He's a very confident guy. He doesn't get flustered. I'm high on him. I think he's going to be a great pro. I like him. So last thing on your guy, Daniels, because people get floated. He's like this guy.

He's like that guy. Who is he like to you? I'm not even going to give you the names that got floated, but just who jumps to mind to you of NFL quarterbacks you've seen? Yeah, so there's an rg3 thing to him and and and like when and when i say that i mean the rg the portion of rg3 that we didn't get to see that we saw just a little bit of before the injuries and stuff yeah a lot of people would say that it's Lamar, but he's a more pure passer with probably a better deep ball than Lamar Jackson has, right? He's not a totally pure passer, but he has a better deep ball.

He can do more with his arm, to me, from the pocket than Lamar Jackson can. I don't see the Lamar thing. I got to say, especially the way Lamar was used in college where just every game he's getting 140, 150 yards. His running was more like a focal point on the offense, Mar was used in college where just every game he's like getting 140 150 yards like he he was used his running was more like a focal point of the offense whereas like when I watched the Daniel stuff it's either the QB draws or he's scrambling around because nobody's open but I I don't feel

like it was like a running offense it felt like you guys wanted to throw well we we threw the ball a lot there was some zone read stuff that we had in there but it to be honest with you a lot of his stuff came on scrambles a lot of his stuff came on scrambles a lot of his stuff there was there was some quarterback draw stuff in there that's why i'd say it's probably more akin a little bit to what rg3 could have been but you know once again the injuries took rg3 wasn't wasn't crazy explosive like this guy in the field. He was explosive. No, no, no. But it wasn't like the guy that he reminds me of is what the first couple Michael Vick Falcons years

when he would get in the open and he'd be like, holy shit, he might go for 80. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he runs it like Michael Vick. Remember that Madden year with Vick when he was like 100 speed? I do. I just think he does a little bit more from the pocket like yeah then michael then michael vick does because he really it was a quarterback heavy offense at lsu this year so a lot of times jayden would just beat you from inside the pocket

but as a as a runner that's the type of suddenness that he has like a vick or lamar jackson vick still as a qb runner there's still something that I haven't seen anybody been able to do. There was something about him though. That's the only reason I bring it up because he's the only other guy I've ever seen that reminded me of those highlights where you just feel like somebody could break it for seven

in a time. All right. Well, I'm still... Thank you for helping my draft process. I'm still working on my board. We're going to take a break. We got a lot to discuss. Today's segment is brought to you by Empower. They're making waves when it comes to helping with your financial future. Make the right call. Let them help answer your money questions so you can be ready for what's next. We're not ready for what's next in the NBA because as we're heading down these last couple weeks of the NBA playoffs, we're watching the seed shift. Tonight, all of a sudden, the Lakers crawled within striking distance of the Phoenix Suns.

All of a sudden, the Knicks are thinking, wait a second, can we catch the Bucs? Can we be the two seed? You just never know what's going to happen. I think the one thing I feel really certain of is that Houston could absolutely catch Golden State if they can beat them when they have their head-to-head game. And that is something. I am watching those rockets, just like the team at Empower is watching you and all your stuff. Can they answer your money questions? They sure can. Can they help you with what's next? Yes, they can. Join more than 18 million Americans taking control of their financial future. Get started at Empower.com. E-M-P-O-W-E-R.com. Sponsored by Empower, not an endorsement or statement of

satisfaction by a client. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won'ted that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November.

Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, I'll let you pick. We can go gambling scandals. We can go, is Iowa the new LeBron Lakers? Okay. You like that? Or we can go wildcard.

You pick. Oh, my God. Damn it. I wish we could randomize this in some way. Let's go wildcard. You pick. Oh my God. Damn it. I wish we could randomize this in some way. Let's go wildcard. Fuck it. Okay. Wildcard.

I didn't tell you I was going to do this. It's something, something that I thought of as I was thinking about Anthony Edwards and, and how he's from Georgia. And I was like, man, it'd be so weird if Anthony Edwards became the best player in the league. And it was like another guy from the South. Let me go through my top two levels of

players, which is 31 players in all. I wonder where they're all from. I wonder if there's anything to learn from this. So I went through level four and level five, 31 guys in all. Eight of them were from the South. Eight of them were from the Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, West Virginia, middle of America. Three were from New York, but one is Dr. J who was Long Island and Kareem and Bob Cousy, but you know, pre 1970. Right. Uh, Wilt was from Pennsylvania. Three were from the DMV. Wow. Durant, Elgin and, uh, and Moses Malone. Uh huh. Shaq was from Texas. Although Shaq bounced around. Doesn't really. Yeah. He's all over the place. Right. I guess he, Texas can claim him. Yeah. Six foreign players.

Okay. And one player from California, Kawhi Leonard, Riverside. That's it. Wow. Wow. So the eight players from the South, Michael Jordan, the best player ever, North Carolina. Bill Russell, the winningest player ever. Louisiana. Louisiana.

Stephen Curry, North Carolina. Right. I'm counting it. Bob Pettit and Carl Malone. Louisiana. Louisiana. Charles Barkley, Alabama. Kevin Garnett, South Carolina.

Chicago tried to claim him, but he's fucking from South Carolina. Yeah. Scotty Pippen, Arkansas. Yep. Does any of that mean anything? Okay. I mean, there's... I figured you were the one to ask.

That might mean nothing. It might mean something. I can't figure it out. Yeah. There are some things that it, you know, that it could mean. But why, how does the West Coast just get left out? We've had 31, the 31 best NBA players ever, and Kawhi Leonard was the only one who grew up in California.

That I can't really think about. I would say, though, that, like, if you were to redo that in a more contemporary sense, you would have James Harden and Russell Westbrook and some guys like that that are from LA and the West Coast or whatever. You'd have some guys in there, right? If you redo it. They're in level two and level three.

I'm giving you the greatest parts of all time. Right. So there's probably a couple of reasons, Bill. Especially when we're talking about why are there good black athletes from the South? There are a couple of reasons, Bill. Especially when we're talking about why are there good black athletes from the South? There are a couple of obvious things that jump out. But then... Okay.

But then beyond that, I do think that there's a different sports culture down there. I do. I think that there's a different sports culture. I think that like, specifically in... Because some of these guys even like your your car malone's and stuff those guys aren't from even big cities in louisiana that car malone's i think from springfield right a bunch of those guys are from really small city really small towns right really small towns so i think that there is something to be said that when you are the type of athlete that a carl malone would be or you know sky pippen story is a little bit

different or like a charles barkley would be or a bob pettit would be that when you're from a smaller place like that particularly in the south the whole town in a way starts to become invested into your success. And some of these kids that come from more densely populated places, urban places, a lot of times their upbringings are like really fraught. And being that they're fraught, there's so many things that, not saying that they're not capitalized, they are capitalized. People look at them and they go, wow, you're really talented. We're going to give you all of these different ways that you can succeed.

We're going to move you to different schools, private schools and all that stuff. But it's still different. There's still a lot of other things that are preying on those young men that they have to deal with. And a lot of bumps in the road before they get to where they're going, right? There's violence. There's all this strife. There's all of this other stuff. And there's intense poverty in the South.

There is. But when they do decide that they're going to invest into a player or put all their stuff behind a guy like that, sometimes you see those players have better outcomes. Because the athleticism in the South, I mean, it's often, it's like ridiculous. Like even in Louisiana alone, if Louisiana decided that it wanted to be a basketball state,

it would be one of the greatest basketball states in the union, but it's a football state. So the Midwest ones, LeBron, Ohio, Magic, Michigan, Jerry West, West Virginia, John Havlicek, Ohio, Isaiah Thomas, Chicago. Dwayne Wade, Illinois. And I'm missing somebody here. But yeah, that was...

Oh, and Larry Bird, Indiana. And Oscar Robertson, Indiana. Are there no Chicago players on there? Yeah, Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Thomas. That's a Chicago guy, right? Yeah. So there's eight in the Midwest

and eight in the South and yet big cities basically nobody in the last 50 plus years yeah nobody from

anywhere in New England um and then only Kawhi from California right it's interesting I was trying to think like but some of it

has to do with the tradition of the basketball in the towns right like you know especially like Michigan and Chicago Indiana

those are places where when you grow up maybe they're getting the best athletes because basketball is so important in those places how do you explain

New York and Chicago there's no place that has a a deeper basketball tradition than New York City right New There's no place that has a deeper basketball tradition than New York City, right? New York's the one I can't figure out. Yeah.

Because it's basically Bob Cousy, it's Dr. J, and it's Kareem. Right. But we've had nobody who has even a case to be one of the best

31 players of all time coming from the last 50 years in the New York area. But there are a lot of good players from New York, but maybe not great players. No great. So part of me, I was thinking like, I wonder if hype's a part of this. Probably. When you're in a big city, you get more hype early on and maybe that's bad. Whereas if you're in some town or you're in the Midwest where nobody's impressed by anybody, maybe that piece is a factor.

So because you think about the names that came out of New York, you think about like, I think like Lance Stevenson. So like Kenny Anderson, Kenny Anderson, Stefan Marbury, like all of those guys that are coming out of these. These are guys that we knew about them when they were in the 11th grade, like a lot of these dudes and it, it goes kind of how it goes. You know what I mean? So the new guys, Edwards is Georgia.

Yeah. Jason Tatum, St. Louis. Yep. Palo, you know where he's from? Uh,

Seattle, Seattle. Yeah. And then everybody else is foreign, basically. If you're going to pick

under 30 face of the week, it's like Wemby, Luka, Jokic, SGA's from Canada. Halliburton, I guess would be

the other one. He's from Wisconsin. Wisconsin, yeah. Midwest. It's just a weird one. Weird wild card topic. It is. I'll tell you something.

The foreign shit has me goddamn shook. The foreign shit has me shook. I'm telling you guys right now, in 20 years, in 20 years, all the names in the league, the top guys, these names are going to be

African players. It's like it's happening. Yep. And Eastern European African players. It's like it's happening. Yep. And, and, and, and, and Eastern European block players.

I mean, it's, it's like right now, the foreign thing is going to completely change the role of not the white American black basketball player was diminished already. That already happened. Although it's coming back. I don't know if you're paying attention.

I don't know if you're paying attention. I know you're paying attention. We've discussed it. We talk about it all the. Although it's coming back. I don't know if you're paying attention. I don't know if you're paying attention. Oh, I know you're paying attention. We've discussed it. We talk about it all the time. It's coming back. The white boys are coming for it. The white American player is resurgent. But I think the black American player, to be honest with you, is in terms of

like, you look over, I mean, I'm sure these distinctions, they're just, they're cosmetic anyway it really doesn't matter but we start to look around it's not as dominant as it once was, like once this generation of elder statesmen is gone I mean you got a lot of guys that are still able to cook

but especially with dudes like Zion and Ja getting into a lot of different bullshit it's interesting, It's an interesting thing. You're going to see it more often. Well, of the 31 best, the foreign guys,

Hakeem, I count Kobe because he grew up in Italy even though he's American. You count Kobe as a foreign player? I don't. I only count him. No, hold on. No, let me finish. What are you doing? Let me finish.

This is just about where you grew up. He went to high school in Pennsylvania. I know, but he lived in Italy until he was, what, 15, 14? Bill, this is where- I'm just saying, Italy gets to claim him. It's a Philly-Italy combo. They do. They really don't. He lived in Italy for like 10 years. Bro's a Philly-Italy combo. They do. They really don't. For like 10 years.

Bro, like his, that's like, see, this is the, see, this is the Bill thing that I love. You gave Shaq to Texas. I didn't know where to give Shaq. Shaq is an army brat. Shaq also was in, like, Germany or whatever like that because he's an army brat.

I'll give him a part four. No, no, no, no, no. You can't give Kobe. You're about to make my fucking head explode. You can't give Kobe to the foreign-born player, bro. You can't. You can't. You can't do it.

All right, how many years of somebody's first 15 years of their life do they have to live in America to say that they had an actual American upbringing? Okay, I think it's a little deeper than that they had an actual American upbringing? Okay. I think it's a little deeper than that. Number one, his parents are American. His father is playing overseas. I'm not saying what his DNA and his genetics are. I'm just saying he lived in Italy.

He's fluent in both languages. Where was he born? He learned how to play basketball in Italy. Where was he born? I really, I actually don't know. Was Kobe born? I can't remember. Yeah.

Anyway. Yeah. We probably should research this. Yeah. So, okay. So you're saying Kobe, or Kobe Hakeem. The Kobe thing is, he was born in Philly. Okay.

So he was born in Philly. His dad played in Italy for a little while. They come back there. He does his high school ball there. The whole nine. Kobe is America. I'm not arguing that. All right. He lived seven years in Italy.

Okay. So seven of his first 15 years. I'm giving him a Philly-Italy upbringing. I also think it was great for him. It definitely was. He got to avoid basically all the AAU stuff. And then on top of that, it made him competitive from

that way if you listen to kobe talk about it also the fact that the kids were not so great to him also hardened him up and made him a little bit different than some of the other players in his generation i do think the foreign players are coming in a real way like i i wonder when we're going to get to the point it might even be this year when we have the 15 All-NBA spots. If it will be like 8-7 foreign versus American. Do you think the league cares? I don't think they 100% care, but I do think they care about

who are the faces when LeBron and Curry go away. Right. Who are we selling to the United States of America? Because the foreign thing only will go so far with that. That's why Edwards, Tatum, some of these dudes, Cooper Flagg, if he has it, which people seem to think he might have a chance to be special, but need a couple of dudes that are from here.

I think there's no question. Because a lot of people, this gets volleyballed around and people like make a whole big deal about it. You don't think, because I tend to agree. I think that the league, and you get in trouble when you say this, I think that the league wants high-profile American players so that they can sell it to one of the biggest audiences that they have. Obviously, China's a huge one.

There's no question. Well, who are the three most famous basketball players we've had this century? LeBron, Steph, and Kobe. LeBron, Steph, and Kobe. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough. So, I mean, really, if we're looking at it,

if that's the case, then the whole fucking thing is riding on Anthony Edwards. Because your boy, Jason Tatum, he's not going to be able to do it. Well, I'm not counting Tatum out yet.

He's only 26. He's not going to happen. He's not going to be able to do it. I think Edwards is ready for it. I think Edwards is ready for it. I think Edwards is ready for it. I think he's got the perfect disposition for it. Now, I also think that, like, he's enough of a scamp.

Like, he's funny. The whole, Kalika doesn't like him anymore because of the send the video thing with the woman. But I'm not saying that that was actual Boy Scout behavior. It was hysterical, though. Like, Ant is, he's funny, he's irreverent, and he seems to not take it all that seriously, even though he's an incredibly serious competitor.

Right? I love that he's an irrational confidence guy. I was talking with Austin on Thursday about, I want a reporter to ask aunt in a pregame. If, if he feels like he could play starting quarterback for the Vikings this year. Yeah.

If he just got like three weeks of training camp. And I think aunt would think that he could, I think that you think that he would, but genuinely think that he could not like, Oh yeah. You know, it'd be fun to like, I think he'd be like,

yeah, if I could learn that if I had enough time to learn the playbook, absolutely. I could do that. He's I really think he thinks that he could not like, oh, yeah, you know, it'd be fun. Like, I think he'd be like, yeah, if I could learn that if I had enough time to learn the playbook. Absolutely. I could do that. He's I really think he thinks that he's also a fucking dog. He really is just a dog. But remember. Just it's a different fucking climate out there.

Whenever we saddle somebody with, oh, my God, we think he's the face of the league or something like that. Whenever we saddle somebody with that, he either shoots somebody in the head or gets a stripper pregnant. There's so many pitfalls for these guys to fall into now. It's ridiculous. There's almost no way for the contemporary player to keep their nose clean. We're paying too much attention. All right, we got more to cover. Let's take a break. Get to know yourself and your roots better in 2024 with Ancestry DNA. Want to know where your family comes from in Northern France? Maybe you'd like to see how your genes influence certain traits like diet, fitness, and allergies.

There's so much of you and your heritage to discover. Don't wait. Ancestry DNA kits are on sale now for a limited time. Visit Ancestry.ca for details. Terms apply. Pioneering a motor oil so advanced, you don't have to think about your motor oil. Instead, you can think about how your engine sounds, how your stomach feels as the RPMs build, how your wheels hug the curves, and how with the Pennzoil Platinum up to 15-year,

800,000-kilometer protection guarantee, your adventures will be many. Pennzoil. Long may we drive. Available at your local Canadian tire. Enrollment required. Keep your receipts. Other conditions apply. See Pennzoil.ca slash warranty for full details. All right. I tweeted this joke last night. Yeah.

And I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the response. I even looked at the replies, which I rarely do on Twitter. If Iowa, the Caitlin Crock Iowa team, played the Lakers in a game who would get more calls. And it was one of those rare tweets that managed to either upset or delight whoever read it. Iowa is now getting officiated like they are Michael Jordan in the late 90s with David Stern trying to keep the league alive. I've actually felt bad for West Virginia yesterday. I think the final fouls, it's like 27 to 10. The free throws were like 30 to five. It was a close game.

And then it was just every call went against them. They said enough of this. You could feel the stakes. And it was for the first time I've ever watched a women's college basketball game where I'm like, wow, this is kind of like an NBA game. Right. Where the league clearly wants something

to happen. Do you feel like over the next two weeks there's going to be a little... Because last year, the Clayton Clark story was so cute. It was like Steph at Davidson. This is so much fun to watch. Now we have all these other good teams, all these other really good players that nobody's talking about nearly as much

as Clayton Clark. Is the backlash coming over these next 10 days? What happens? For her, it's already started. Yeah. It's classic, right? For her, it's already started. She flops a lot. She does flop. She is disrespectful.

She's brash. She's arrogant. All of that. So it's already started. I think the backlash is, I think if there are too many more games like there were against West Virginia, it'll be more pronounced just because that was hysterical after a while. It was a classic

great player loses game game to where she couldn't find her game in the fourth. She couldn't really, her shot wasn't falling. She couldn't really get to the line. It was a classic okay this i was playing poorly enough this team is playing hard enough and making timely threes making enough of them that they you can end up and see iowa losing this game by two or three points

and the refs just go absolutely not yeah hell no put them on the line they're making free throws and then the West Virginia ladies just crumble they just like there's nothing we could do because you know when you're in that situation

my wife who never watches basketball with me was actually watching the last five minutes and they were showing a replay of a couple of fouls she had no you know has no opinion

on any of this stuff and she's like oh my god that wasn't a foul are they allowed to do that it was just like outrage I was like mom this is the way it goes they need Caitlyn to get to the final four

that's the thing right so the women's game right now is so much more compelling for people than the men's game is because of the stars that are in the game I just talked about this with Tate so like they gotta seize this moment they have to seize this moment. They have to seize this moment. The best thing

for women's college basketball would actually be for Kaylin Clark to go on an unprecedented heater and then take Iowa to the national championship game and then have them

beat South Carolina. That would be... So she goes Larry Bird 1979 style, but actually wins the game. But actually wins the game. Or she goes like Danny Manning and actually wins the game. I'm going to tell you right now, that's not happening.

They're not beating South Carolina. They're not good enough. They're not good enough. They're like barely beating West Virginia. Holy Cross was in against them for 15 minutes before we stopped getting calls. Very similar situation. Oh, you're mad about it.

I felt like we could have gotten like two calls. See, this is the thing about Bill. There's always an agenda. Like you. All right. I didn't, I didn't realize this was the rules. It's Kate McClark at the tournament. You just don't get calls. Nah.

There's two things. Number one, they're going to get calls because they want them to be around. And then number two, she's such a fantastic player. Right. And she's very crafty. The refs are going to think if Kaitlin isn't scoring, somebody must be cheating. But if you look at it, she's not as dominant in it.

She's playing fine. But she's not as dominant in it. She's playing fine. She's playing fine. But she's not as dominant in this run as she was last time. The team is obviously different. Well, part of it is people know how to defend her better. She always has, there's two people at the perimeter that are always kind of following her. So she's got to be two people to get by anybody.

I don't know if that was the case last year. I'm so impressed by her passing. I think that's my favorite thing about her game. She always makes really good, really smart, correct passes, and she knows where her teammates are, and she just has a sense of where everybody is at all times. And she also knows how to use, which is always really impressive to me,

she knows how to use her passing ability to free up her offensive scoring game. She knows how to make the right pass at the right moment to make somebody go, oh my God, back off a little bit. And then if you leave her for a second, she can get a shot. Yeah, because if you're giving up enough layups,

then you're eventually going to, then she gets more space. It was interesting to hear Gino saying last night after the UConn game that Paige was the best player in the country and people know, you saw it today, like he was kind of doing the Gino thing where it was

like, eh, maybe I'm going to make a run at starting this conversation. Then you watch Juju on USC last night, which I watched that entire game. She's probably a year away, but she's also like incredibly talented. And one of those, one of those players that just seems taller than maybe she is, like there's a size to her. There's a gravity. I don't even know who to compare. She's very Taurasi-esque

is how I keep coming away with her. She seems more, she's like more, Kaylin Clark is, Kaylin Clark's got good size. Right, but she's definitely a guard and it's like in that Steph Curry kind of phylum. Yeah, but Juju just seems like a dominant scorer. Yeah, she's Taurasi. She looks, she reminds me so much. I always thought Taurasi was the best ever

do you still think that? pretty limited opinion on this yeah I still feel like she's the to me she's the goat let me ask you a question has the ability of teams to scheme Kaitlyn Clark change your thoughts about how dominant she might be in the WNBA

no because I mean she's still an amazing shooter and she's only going to get better at that. The thing we know about shooting from college to the pros is if you were an awesome shooter in college, it's only going to improve, right? The more you work at stuff,

the more you work on footwork. So I just think, I think she's going to get to the pro. But the thing about WNBA is they're going to have, you know, they're going to have like 10 awesome players in that league in five years. Yeah. Whereas before it was always two, three, maybe four. Now it's going to be...

And players that are playing a style that's just way more fun to watch. You watch the USC center, who was just tall and kind of clumsy, but kind of the effective old school center that teams used to have in the seventies and eighties. Those players are kind of going out of the way in college basketball. Now everybody's got like the, in women's, everybody's got like the one,

you know, quote unquote, like finisher around the basket, but there's way more space. I just think it's, it's fun to watch. And I like the fact that the teams stay together. I know you talked to Tate about that, but I feel like I knew a lot of these Iowa kids because I watched them last year. Yeah. It seems more like the college basketball that we used to watch.

That we grew up with. Yeah. Yeah. Watching Howard Trish at fucking Syracuse for four years. Ed Cota. Wherever he played. Ed Cota seemed like he was at North Carolina for 19 seasons. Right. Yeah. You just see him throughout all the vince carter years and stuff and you get used to these players and

these teams i'll tell you this the wmba as a league is i don't want to say that they're under pressure but this is the chance right this is the chance this is the chance man this is the chance. This is the chance, man. This is the chance in the next four or five years. They have a good product. If you watch the games, they're fun games to watch. The level of competition in the WNBA raises every single season. I used to absolutely

hate it, and I thought it was a bad product, and I feel the complete opposite now. It's great, but it's getting better. I wouldn't say it's great yet, but I think it was a bad product, and I feel the complete opposite now. It's great. It's getting better. I wouldn't say it's great yet, but I think it's stepped up like seven notches. Yeah, the playoffs are really fun. But right now, the all-eyes-on-me situation, because so many people that have not watched it before

are going to watch Angel Reese. They have real bona fide stars and cultural magnets that are coming to the league. They have got to seize this moment. I wouldn't know how you would do it. They're even moving into one of your favorite sports territories, the white-black thing.

Yeah, that's the best. Van Lathan's special. That's the best. Is Kayla Clark's special. That's the best. Is Caitlin Clark, are we sure she's this good? What if this, and we get to argue about it. There's just all these side benefits of this. See, Bill, that's the way you get people going.

You know what I mean? I did nothing. The Denver people probably, I did nothing but help them. I helped them. With the Yokeh. Yeah, all I did was light a fire on them. I feel like Caitlin Clark is almost exactly where Larry Bird was in 1979. Really? When the NBA wasn't really the NBA yet,

even though people loved it, but it wasn't popular. They're tape delaying games. Right. And Bird came in with magic and it was like, the great white hope, Larry Bird. He was way better than that

because we were actually in Boston. We were watching him because they used to show the ISU games. But there was a couple years there where Bird's color was one of the dominant things that people talked about. Like, ah, well, they need a white guy. It was all the

way they talked about it. It was super clumsy. But it took him like five years where that stopped being a storyline. When it was just like, actually, no, Bird's the best fucking player in the league. He won three straight MVPs. And then it came back again with isaiah in 87 right when isaiah and rodman said that then all of a sudden we had to fucking litigate it again i do feel like with the caitlin clark thing that is going to be a narrative at some point where it's like well would this be

happening if she was black well i'll tell you like this will become a narrative of course i mean it always is because it's until um from a serious side until america litigates some things in a real way the questions will always be there so it is what it is but i'll tell you one thing the thing about her is her style of play is not fan friendly yeah so it's not her style of play Larry Bird was doing shit and he was he was saucy but Larry Bird was also you know

a little slower at times he was he was a great he was a good athlete he didn't but he played in a very culturally

specific way she's crossing people and shooting logo threes like that is hold on I gotta halt you it's true

I'm gonna have to send you like a 20 minute Larry Bird video this is absolutely blasphemy I've watched it the way him and Magic passed was completely changed and rejuvenated the league I do I get it but Larry Bird so Caitlin's shooting I think

could be like that for WM Larry Bird played like the best version of a white player that's not true that's not a diss Larry Bird played like the best version of a white player. That's not true. That's not a diss. Larry Bird played like the... He talked more shit than anyone in the league. That's true.

The way he acted. But Larry Bird played like the best version of what you would think that a white player would play like, right? That's how he played. Would you say that about Jokic? Yes, absolutely. Because Bird and Jokic, there are a lot of similarities. There are a lot of similarities.

But what I'm saying is, and by the way, there are other players that kind of play the same way if we're using stereotypes, right? If we're using stereotypes and Larry Bird played like the best version of a white player, incredibly skilled, ridiculously good shooter, tough, hard-nosed, old hero. I think you're running profiling him.

You're run profiling him. If he jogged differently, maybe you would have not felt this way. It was the jogging that always killed him. But once again, though, he was like people say that, give me an example, people say that Jokic is not a good athlete. I don't think that's true. I think he's not an explosive athlete. His hand eye and his footwork is 10 out of 10.

His hand eye, his footwork, the more you watch of him, the more you see that he does things and scores in ways that other players that are quote unquote fantastic athletes can't score in because they don't have the body control, they don't have the coordination, they don't have the footwork, and they don't have the touch. So anyway, but Caitlin Clark does not play like that. You know, what's cool about this Caitlin Clark and just the, the spot woman's basketballism right now. I want to see if the discourse evolves with the product,

right? Because the way we talk about men's sports and the arguments we have and the takes we have, it still feels a little kid's glove-y on the woman's side, right? Of course, yeah. And I want it to get to the point when we're discussing it exactly like how we would discuss NBA.

And we're picking apart players in the same way. And we have certain players that some people just don't like. And it feels like we're heading that way with this era of player. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that's true. I think obviously there's some societal things that you have to probably some hurdles that you have to jump, but I do think that when the players inspire more emotion, then that's what I'm getting at. Yeah. When the players, we're still in this era of like, oh man, this is great. Oh, women's sports. They had a great rating here. Oh, they're breaking down barriers. But eventually it's going to get to the place

where we're just like, yeah, Kaitlin Clark's playing South Carolina and she has no fucking chance and here's why. And somebody's just laying it out for five minutes. I don't think we're there yet. And just to be honest with you, the most dominant feeling in sports is not, I love that motherfucker.

The most dominant feeling in sports is not I love that motherfucker. The most dominant feeling in sports is I hate that motherfucker. That's the most dominant feeling in sports. And sometimes, I guess, it doesn't feel like that's cool to say about the ladies as much as it is about the guys.

It feels like, it feels wrong to say it. But I can look at Kalen Clark and be like, you know what? That's a great fucking player, but like I can look at Kalen Clark and be like, you know what? That's a great fucking player, but I don't really like that motherfucker. And that doesn't change the fact that I'm watching every single second of

every single game that she, if she's on TV, I'm, I'm looking at it straight up. Well, now they're going to have next year. They'll have four teams that people care about in the WNBA. Right.

Cause the New York and Vegas and Seattle are kind of like the yeah those are the those are the contenders like they're the ones that just have the best biggest fan bases the whole thing but then indiana which i think was like the worst team in the league from like attendance and all this stuff and now all of a sudden they're going to get Kaitlyn Clark. And now there's four teams. And then maybe there'll be another team that blossoms. And now once you get to like five,

now shit's going on. Now you have library games. Now you have, oh, today it's going to be Kaitlyn Clark. You know, and then we go. Then we're off. The first Kaitlyn Clark,

Angel Reese, WNBA game is going to be crazy. Think about the, the, the, the first game where they play each other. First of all, the celebrities that are going to be crazy. Think about the first game where they play each other. First of all, the celebrities that are going to be at the game.

All of this stuff, the celebrities that are going to be at the game, the people that are going to be in the building for this, the game being on prompt, the first time they actually go against one another in the WNBA, it's going to be a big, huge deal. I legitimately can't wait for it.

Let's take a break. Three, two, one, zero. The final seconds of the game separate true fans from the rest. The fans that are there for every victory, defeat, agony, and ecstasy. And when the buzzer sounds, you deserve a Coke Zero Sugar. The one with irresistible taste and zero sugar. Win or lose, Coke Zero Sugar is the most refreshing way to end the game. Coke Zero Sugar. Best Coke ever.

Learn more at Coca-Cola.ca. So money is a thing, but it's not everything. I think you really look at the importance of what are you doing with your time? The conversations that we've had with our financial advisor is very much building what that framework looks like that helps support those important things. The places where you're investing your time and your resources, your family clearly, and those closest to you. Edward Jones. We do money differently. Visit edwardjones.ca slash different. So we have gambling scandal and we have a P. Diddy scandal. Where do you want to go? Probably got to do Puff, man. All right. Let's hear it.

It's probably over. This is it? Yeah, it's probably over. So when you fly to a country that you can't get extradited from, that's usually a red flag. Well, so there's reporting that's come out now that that's not what happened. He didn't do that.

Okay, what happened? So what people are saying now is that, because there was some video that was taken of him at an airport in Miami. What people are saying now is that they hit, first of all, I'll say it like this. They raided his LA home. They raided his Miami home.

We still don't know what people were looking, the Department of Homeland Security, the feds. We still don't know what people were looking for. If, in fact, obviously there was a warrant that was served, his children were handcuffed. If, in fact, they were looking for Puff, it seems like if they were looking for Puff, then they could have just gotten

him because he was at the airport in Miami. They have video of him, right? He was going, what's being reported now is that he was going to the islands for spring break with his children. So that was already planned. And he was on the phone with someone,

presumably with his attorneys or with somebody else that was making sense of this. However, the trajectory of this entire thing, starting from the Cassie lawsuit to more lawsuits coming out, to now human trafficking. I guess I don't want to speculate, but it seems to be that people were saying that this was in connection with some investigation into that.

The trajectory of this seems to be that the accusations and the stakes keep getting ratcheted up until it ends with some type of legal action against him. That's what it's like, criminal legal action against him. That's what happens. It happens like this in almost every case, right? If you look at the other two cases that are like this, they start with allegations of impropriety. Then they move into, okay, what was actually, then they move into lawsuits. Then they move into, okay, what was actually then they move into lawsuits then they move into okay what was actually legal and illegal then they move into getting into the illegality of stuff and then

somebody ends up in jail if you're looking at Weinstein or if you're looking at Cosby those are the way it started off with hey this guy did this then wait a minute this guy did this a lot then wait a minute was this legal then no it wasn't legal then this guy's gotta go lot. Then wait a minute, was this legal? Then no, it wasn't legal. Then this guy's got to go to jail. And that seems to be the way that is headed right now.

So you're saying he's hitting the checkpoints of, he's hitting of sagas that we've seen in the past. Of sagas that we've seen in the past. All the benchmarks and hallmarks of that. It starts off with, okay, no one's really talking about it. Then the Cassie lawsuit comes.

He settles the Cassie lawsuit comes he settles the cassie lawsuit really quickly the reputation on him now changes completely like really overnight like things that people only whispered about now become the dominant talking part points about him after that you see more lawsuits after lawsuits people start to go okay is some of this stuff is there really something going on then out of nowhere nowhere, the feds raid your house. So if you look at what happens before, it seems like it's headed towards something happening to him, him being arrested and something like that.

That's how it seems like how it's going. What's his place in celebrity and culture the last 30 years for you? Man. Less important than he gets credit for? More important? Same? Like, what is it? So if you say 30 years, then, you know, we're going back to 1994.

And it's important to solidify that because really you're talking about one of the most remarkable careers, right? You're talking about somebody who starts in a record label during the time that rap was really exploding and becomes somebody that is one of America's most important cultural translators, becomes a celebrity for his ability to sell culture to America. Always had super talented people. But it wasn't just about the talent that was at Bad Boy. It wasn't just about Big and Maze and Total and all of that.

It was about the lifestyle. The lifestyle was we had the white parties up in the Hamptons. The lifestyle was we're at the tip top of music and fashion and celebrity, right? It was this- And I have my own tequila brand that I'm involved with.

I have all of that. Right. Like, Ciroc was, you drank Ciroc because it was made cool by the fact that he had made everything else cool. The shiny suits, all of this stuff is like,

we are part of the social, or the New York socialite deal. Like, you wanted to be at those parties because Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro and all those people were going to be there and all of that. And it was the mainstreaming of hip hop.

He knew how to take something that was street or urban or that we had and then mainstream it in a very specific way. And- He also understood the power of a celebrity relationship absolutely the power of all of this stuff right of the people that he knew the people that he was around

when did he date JLo that was late 90s 98 to 2000 she got in a shootout it was a good career move for everybody right and then just even that when Sean John the clothing line came out it was was streetwear, but then it was elevated urban streetwear, right? It was elevated streetwear. Then he had the suits and all of that. Puff was the man. He was the symbol of that type of refined, whatever you want to call it, right? And everything. And then when Serac comes about,

he becomes a lifestyle ambassador. That's what he becomes. He becomes like a little cultural deity, like a cultural god, like on the Mount Olympus of that. Like if there's him, if he's Zeus, and then Jay is whomever and all of this, all of that stuff, he's one of those guys.

And plucking him and him falling from that would literally be like one of those gods falling off Mount Olympus when you're talking about culture in that way. But probably the most predictable. Yeah. If you're going to point at people, he would have been the draft pick.

Right, because there's always been talks about this. Obviously, if you go back to, you know, other issues that have happened, the Steve Stout thing, with him being mad about the video, and he runs in there on Steve Stout and all of that stuff. But like... Tupac getting shot. All right, now.

No, I'm just saying from an internet conspiracy standpoint, he's in a few of these. Bill, you're going to end up on Vlad TV. But all I'm saying saying from an internet conspiracy standpoint, he was in a, he's in a few of these. Bill, you're going to end up on Vlad TV. But all, but all I'm saying, all I'm saying is this, and all of us who are in and around the industry, we all have different relationships with,

with Puff. And we all know him in different ways. And we all like, I produced a movie with him, Two Distant Strangers. Like you, we all, we all have different relationships with him.

So this, the whispers around this end up becoming like this gigantic roar and this thing now that people are looking at, it makes you re-litigate the entire era, which is what people are doing, which is what different movements have done, the Me Too movement, all that.

You re-litigate the entire era. You go, okay, well, everybody wanted to be at the parties. Well, did you want to be at the parties? Like all of this lifestyle and all of this stuff that went on that happened. And these are all just allegations, but these are the questions that people are asking. So this will be what the next couple of weeks and months look like now? Yeah. It'll be like, who had to pay for it?

Who was exploited for it? Who was made less of a person for it? Who's crying right now and broken inside because of the party that you wanted to go to in 2006, 2005, or whatever? And everybody, as we mature and as we look at stuff, once again, none of this stuff is written. There's all still more to be looked into, litigated to come out and all of that stuff. Once again, none of this stuff is written. There's all still more to be looked into,

litigated to come out and all of that stuff. But it kind of makes you, there's a little bit of a revisionist history that's being done on all the stuff that we thought that we worship. I mean, you saw it with the Nickelodeon documentary that was on Max. You watch that? Same thing. I mean, all that stuff was out there forever. And then that comes out, it's four parts. And now that's one of the dominant content things right now. Right. So it's the exact same thing. It's like you look at all of that stuff.

And I was too old for all of that. But you knew that your little brother and everybody, they were hooked on everything that was coming out of Nickelodeon. And then when you look at how the sausage is made, you go, Jesus Christ, was it all worth it? Gambling scandal. Oh, my God. So we had Otani and we had Jonte Parker. And now there's going to be an overreaction about, well, this is what happened. We gamble on everything.

I'm actually more interested on how you feel about this. Well, I'll just say this because I've obviously been talking about gambling on all platforms since I was at ESPN in 2001. We've always had gambling scandals. We had in 1950s, we had the college hoops.

In the 60s, we had Paul Horning and Alex Karras got suspended for a year. One of the most famous running backs and defensive players. We had Liston Ali too, which if you don't think that was fucking fixed. The second

fight in Lewiston. The punch that was so fast and just Liston and he can't even figure out how to throw the fight. He's just stumbling around. He gets up. Connie Hawkins, who ended up getting exonerated. In the 70s, we had Boston College basketball, which was a huge deal,

which was part of the Goodfellas crew was in that. In the 1980s, we had Tulane basketball. Hot Rod Williams. Hot Rod Williams, who there was a mistrial and then ended up playing in the NBA for nine years. Pete Rose, Arch Schliester. We had the whole Jordan thing in 93. I'm still not positive exactly all of what happened on that.

We had Northwestern Hoops in 95. BC football in the mid-90s with the Breeders' Cup in 02. We had Tim Donahue reffing playoff games for years in the 2000s. We had that Rick Tockett, Janet Jones. That was pretty weird. We had Italian soccer. I think what strikes me about the Jonte Parker,

the Jonte Porter thing specifically is how good the sports books and casinos are at sniffing shit out. Right? We're at a point now where why are you making a sly smile? I'm watching you do your thing.

It's, it's, I'm watching you do, cause this is you, you, I can tell that this is important. Like, no,

it's important because the Otani thing is the biggest baseball story we've had all year. And I think that's, that's way more important than John Tate Porter. I'm just saying like the fact that somebody could potentially, it's all allegations, but it's like, hey man, bet the unders on a couple of these games and nobody will notice. And then you see they have all the betting data.

And it was like, these are the most bet unders of the night. Where Jontae Porter unders the ninth man on a non-playoff team from Canada is our most bet prop? Let me ask you something. They flagged this shit. Are you uncomfortable with the idea that is becoming prevalent now

which is that not becoming prevalent now that's starting to become starting to become talked about which is that the access and the popularity of gambling

throughout these different gambling sites, how intertwined the gambling sites are into sports culture now. And casinos. And casinos, right? That that is leading to, because we've seen in a very short amount of time, don't forget about Keyshawn Boutte.

Shout out to Keyshawn Boutte from down there in Louisiana, LSU, who fucking put his real name. God damn, Keyshawn. Who fucking put his real name as his thing. He's like, hey, give me five dimes

on Cleveland. Keyshawn Boutte 09. Right. It's like... Well, Calvin Ridley too is the other one. Right. Like, it's like... Well, Calvin Ridley, too, is the other one. Right. So, when you think about this

and people are saying that what they're saying now is obviously that because of all of these different affiliations with all of these different things that this is going to lead

to a disintegration of the competitive integrity of the game because it's all on everybody's phones. I just don't see that at all. To me, it's like we're in some sort of new era, right? The last five, six years with the dialogue,

with the fact that the networks, you know, podcast networks, video networks, whatever, where gambling is more integrated. We have all these different gambling sponsors and we also have the dialogue of the game with these different shows. And obviously we're presented by Fando, as you heard at the very top of this podcast, all these different gambling sponsors. And we also have the dialogue of the game with these different shows. And obviously we're presented by Fando,

as you heard at the very top of this podcast, as you heard during the podcast. So we have a relationship as well. And it's just more prevalent than it was. But to me, it's like, I remember when this happened with Fantasy, I don't know, 20 years ago, when people were like,

Fantasy is going to ruin the game. People care more about their fantasy teams than real teams. And we had to go through that whole stretch. And it's like, guess what? It's just a different muscle when you're following sports. I think we're going to get there with the gambling thing. But what's going to happen is a lot of people are going to latch onto this as, you know how the internet goes. You know how people with platforms go, where this would be something that they can go nuts about. And to me, it's like we're in the 1.0 era of all this stuff. Just because Jonte Porter, if he did that, is an idiot, doesn't mean we're headed toward the

1919 Black Sox scandal. One of the things is these guys are making a shitload of money. I guess there's things that I feel like we're going to get better at down the road. Do we need to have player props for the ninth man in an NBA game? Should we have player props in college sports? It's something that I would seriously think about. When we have March Madness, these kids are 18, 19, 20, 21. Should we be able to put player props on them should those be even in blood or better should it just stay straight with the gambling stuff but i look

at like this has been part of sports forever like why do you think they put the fucking lines and for football and newspapers in 1979 we've been doing this the whole time it's just like how can we do this smartly i think think is the question. So then, so what you're saying is that like, the, there's more financial incentive for a player to do something untoward

if he's not one of the marquee players on the team. Like, if you're the ninth guy and you got a prop on him, then he might try to make an extra 50,

100,000 or whatever like that because he can influence. Or like a field goal kicker, right? Yeah knows? But to me, you're risking and what's going to happen is they're going to be making examples of these guys. Ridley lost a year of his career and then had to come back at a reduced rate. So he really lost probably two years of income in his prime. Was it worth it? Was it worth it to put down bets? I just think there's going to be cautionary tales that are going to help this stuff.

Well, I think the first thing that's going to happen is at a certain point, somebody is going to make this their crusade. They'll be a politician or a figure with an ex-athlete of some sort that's going to make this their crusade, which will lead to a much more sweeping investigation of how prevalent this actually is. It's too juicy an issue for somebody not to either politicize it or grandstand on it. So there's somebody that's looking at this, that's putting this together, that's going to go, oh my God, we have to protect the integrity of the game.

But what that will lead to, what that will lead to, should I say, is a more in-depth investigation of how prevalent this is. And whoever does that and however on the up and up it is and wherever it goes will tell the story of how

much regulation or how many new rules or whatever like you're talking about actually get implemented because the jonte parker thing i mean he held his own with diddy it was a big fucking news day every single thing was about diddy it was yeah diddy the diddler they threw jay-z in it for some reason that's what they call diddy now the diddler. They threw Jay-Z in it for some reason. That's what they call Diddy now, the diddler. And everything about Diddy and then Jontae Parker stayed there the whole time. People cared. People did not move off the story.

Same thing with Otani. Otani was like a top-of-the-line Apple News story for five, six days. Yeah, because that one right there, once again, the Otani thing is that's as juicy a sports story as i've seen in a while him just coming to la the amount of money that was involved in it the fact that people are now going back and asking whether or not otani speaks better english than we think that he speaks

it's just like people like got into the whole thing with it. Although I do feel like his press conference did throw a little cold water on it. I'm not sure where it goes from here. But it did seem like when he came out and talked about it, it did throw a little cold water on it. There's a lot of people with an incentive for that story to go away. But, I mean, the biggest

scandal we've had in our lifetime in my opinion was Donahue from a gambling standpoint, because he was doing big ass NBA games and they said he was a rogue ref. They wrapped up the investigation really fast. There was some really good work done by a couple of different reporters about how there's a lot of evidence that Stern might have blown the whistle when he found out the FBI was potentially really diving in and he just, the New York Post found out about it and it basically killed the investigation before it could have really started.

And then it just became Donahue. You know, this is like a live wire for all these leagues. The number one thing they're the most afraid of is could our competition be compromised in some way? Right. So now you have this Jante Porter thing. It is a big deal because I went back. Last night,

I watched the Kings Raptors game. I watched the three minutes he played. Grabbed two rebounds. He took a terrible turnaround shot. He seemed totally healthy. And then he disappeared from the game because he had an illness. It was definitely nothing jumped out at me, but I went back and watched it. The NBA doesn't want us talking about this. So short term, it's like, how do you convince these dudes? Don't do this. This is career suicide. And then bigger picture, how do we navigate as gambling went from, it was this underground thing for the most part to the last seven years, it just blew up. But it still existed the whole time.

People are going to March Madness every year to Vegas for March Madness. People are going to Vegas for NFL and college football and still part of it. But now it's omnipresent. So how do we manage it is the big question. Is there any chance to you that this fractures or slows down the relationship between the different gambling sites and entities and the professional sports leagues and professionals and sports culture? Because they seem to be pretty intertwined now, right? Yeah. The money, is there any chance that this slows those relationships down at all? I could see them being re-evaluated in some ways,

but I don't think it's going to slow down because for the leagues, it's too much money. It's too much money, yeah. And for the culture, it's more intertwined. And I think a couple other things happen that changed it a little bit too, right? Baseball is really hard to bet on. So initially it was always baseball, football, basketball. Hockey is also really weird and dumb to bet on. You're doing goals. Basketball and football are always the two best sports,

and then occasionally boxing. But now UFC, it's such a big part of UFC and they lean into it. When you watch any UFC pay-per-view, they have the odds, the odds are changing by the round. And UFC is the youngest fan-based sport that we have. So you have all of those people who are growing up watching that sport who are just used to the odds being in it.

So to me, I feel like people are going to just assume that this is part of following sports. Like this is what they see, right? I think it's going to be clumsy with when we get into basketball and football, and we've seen it be clumsy with some of the pregame shows. They, they're really careful about leaning into it during the basketball broadcast. For the most part, the announcers don't really know how to talk about it but 10 years from now i'd be more literate the thing that the only thing i don't like that worries me is like what bicker staff said when he was saying how um people calling him on his phone because they were mad about some bet and i was like oh man that would be if we went in that direction that would be, if we went in that direction, that would be pretty scary.

Yeah. Right. I honestly think it won't slow anything down because I think to be honest with you, the, the number one, because the revenue stream is too great and just something else, you cannot slow down something that people want to do. You just can't. If people want to do something and it's sellable, they're going to find what they might change things

and find ways to, but people want to gamble. They want to gamble. Scratch cards, lottery tickets. Scratch cards, lottery.. Scratch cards, lottery. I'm on my way here, and I didn't realize that the shit had got to a billion dollars. I really didn't realize it. Bro, I passed by the thing on the 10,

and it said that the shit was a billion dollars, and I started having all of these dreams of winning a billion dollars. I couldn't stop myself. I started thinking, man, I give $10 million to my high school. I was like, I'll be a different type of billionaire. I'll give away, I'll go viral because I give away $250 right away and just keep the rest.

And then I'll make independent films for the rest of my life. Fucking, you know what I mean? I honestly started, that's the whole thing. So people want to do it. They will figure out a way to make it jive with the competition being pure, but it's not going anywhere. It's not going anywhere.

And by the way, it was here the whole time. I hate to break it to people. Right. And also, it's like, the odder to bet, because I don't know how to bet that well, but the odder to bet, because I don't know how to bet that well, but the order to bet, the more fun it is. It's like, yo,

my brother calling me up, like, yo, you think Pritchett going to have 13 points tonight? I'm like, there's no fucking way he'll have 13 points, bro. Like, it's not possible. Look, I need him to have 13.

Like, what? I need him to have 13. Like what? I need them to have 13. And I mean, it's just, it's just a fun thing to even talk about. I mean, Sal and Hench and House and I were on an hour long text thread trying to figure out what to do with the Rockets playing odds, which were plus 800 on Fandle over the weekend. It dropped to like plus 550. And we ended up, we went through the schedule and we looked, ah, we're going to do this on plus 550. There's no way I would have cared about it otherwise. So that, you know, it's just, but this is the way I've followed sports for the last,

I don't know, three and a half decades. So I'm, I'm used to this. I can see how other people are like, wait a second, is this what we're all doing now? Or the odds are in it. I just think it's going to be rocky and clumsy. And we're going to have a couple of Jonte porters. It's just going to be how it goes. What scares me is another Donahue thing or the long snapper on the Saints. Just two shitty ones. The long snapper on the Browns. Pick a long snapper. Just two bad snaps. Oh, what happened there? Oh, he lost. And all of a sudden that swings the game or the holder. I just got to mess

up one PAT and one field goal. And then now we hit the under. And who would know? Yeah, nobody would know. What do you think happens to Jontae Porter? If he actually did that i think they're gonna ban him like a p i don't even think it's a suspension i think he's out i think they'll make him an example and that'll be that damn and maybe he gets to apply for to

come back in four years wait quickly we had a couple more things for it to go sure did you like the new kickoff rule? I don't understand it. I've seen some pictures of it. I was just getting into it. I haven't been able to, why don't you explain it to me right now? It's just less concussions.

It's less people running at each other full speed and more people being planted closer to where the kickoff guy is. The guy catches it and then everyone goes. So people aren't just colliding 20 miles an hour. So if it's about that, this is going to sound so pussy,

but if it's about that, why not just eliminate the kickoff? So I would have voted for that. The other thing I don't get is people have already kind of built their roster except for the draft at this point. Yeah. And by rejuvenating the kickoff, they've now made this potentially a weapon again. And it's almost like if you're in a fantasy league and somebody says, hey, we're going to change the rules this year. Three pointers are now worth twice as much.

Like, okay, cool. And you already have your team. And then whoever had like the three,-point guys that just helps them. Not in the best teams. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like it was interesting to me that three teams voted against it. It was probably three teams that were like, shit, we kind of suck at kickoffs. Yeah. Whereas

somebody like Miami, if they have A-chain, it's like, hey, you're going to be able to kick off and actually have space to go. It might win them two games. I think they should have waited a year. Is there real science on the percentage of concussions that happen on the kickoffs?

They've narrowed this down to this is the most dangerous part of the game. When Ben was playing football the last two years, it was the thing that scared me the most. Because yeah. He actually had to come out one game I thought he had a concussion he didn't but

you know you have one side running it's just not great I don't understand what a hip drop tackle is and I've watched all the videos and I watch football every week and I still don't I understand what it is I don't understand in real time

how you decide easily what it is. I know I get how it's bad, but... Like you didn't... So there are a couple of... The horse collar tackle I get, you know it when you see it. Oh, that was definitely a horse collar. The hip drop, man, it seems nebulous.

I think they're going to have so much trouble figuring that out. Like making judgments on when one occurred and when one didn't occur and all that stuff? Or is it like almost a hip drop tackle and then they say it was and then we see some new angle of it and it wasn't? Well, I mean, that happened to

Jordan Travis from Florida State. That's the one that I really remember. Yeah. And the so it happened to him He They lost him And then

Threw college football Into chaos So I knew That after this year It was just so much Talk about it That it would be addressed That something was happening

Yeah for sure You and your Fiance watched The entire Patriots documentary Even though you don't like The Patriots Yeah We did

What were your thoughts as a casual fan? Fascinating television. Like, fascinating. Like, so many, like, first of all, just a couple of things. The changes in Tom Brady's face throughout the documentary. It's just fascinating.

The Aaron Hernandez part of it. Now, I had covered that, right? So I knew a lot of that stuff. Totally, totally fascinating. But the part of it that was the best for me, this is going to sound so stupid to people, was the Drew Bledsoe stuff. I liked that the most because

that told me the most about the DNA of the Patriots. Because, to me, that's the one decision in sports that the coach doesn't really have the balls to make. That's the one, like Belichick recognized what type of team he wanted to have. How he wanted his stuff to go. And part of his genius was identifying in Tom Brady,

what was it, six-round draft pick? Seven-round draft pick? Seven-round draft pick? Yeah, sixth. Identifying in Tom Brady a guy who could run his team the way he wanted to. And up against that, watching him go through the quarterback controversy,

watching him go through all of that, and then get to the Super Bowl, that's one of the most important decisions in the history of sports. I was living in Boston that year, and that was like Boston sports media civil war. It was Bledsoe camp, Brady camp, and everybody was incredibly opinionated about it

one way or the other. I was in the Brady camp. So what I remember is Drew Bledsoe resurrecting the Patriots and taking them to the Super Bowl. So I- Because he came in off the bench in that Pittsburgh game. No, I'm talking about just Drew Bledsoe taking the Patriots to the Super Bowl, period, right?

Just because I had, the Patriots were garbage the entire time that I was growing up besides the one time to win oh in 96 I'm talking about yeah 96 I'm talking about so Drew Bledsoe was a a stamped not like a great elite quarterback but he was a very good quarterback like one of the guys that you would say hey if you were playing Madden you want to have Drew Bledsoe and then he lost his job to the dude from Michigan. And I watched so much college football that I knew who Tom Brady was,

but I wasn't expecting Tom Brady. So it was just, I had an overview of it, but watching the psychology of it and watching how Bill talked up Tom Brady and watching how he recognized things in Tom Brady and how Tom Brady had to get the rest of the team on his side, it was very, it was really fascinating. And then when you get to the end, you get to Bill Belichick's fraying with the

organization and all of that stuff. It was very interesting though. It was like the making of that entire dynasty. It's fascinating. Fascinating. But as somebody who makes content, did you feel like it was balanced or was skewed a certain way? I felt like it was skewed. i felt like it was skewed i felt like i felt like it was skewed i felt like it was it was it was told from the mountaintop it wasn't it's not one of those type of documentaries though the fact that they got everybody to sit down the fact that everybody was there tells me that it wasn't going to be uh a pull it apart at the seams and look at the guts at it type of thing. It's the best type of documentary that you can get for one of those glossy Sports Illustrated feature films.

See, this is what worries me because I think for casual, for non-Patriot fans, and they watch that and they're like, oh, that was it. Oh, I never knew that. And, you know, I just felt like Belichick. I hope he never goes back. That's where I've landed on it. What you mean?

Like when they're like, hey, we're going to have Bill Belichick day and put a statue. I hope he's like, fuck you. Doesn't go back. Because I think they did him dirty in the dock. I really did. Well, I mean, they didn't have no choice. Well, he didn't leave them much of a choice. He was doing his Belichick thing during the documentary.

Because he knew he was going to get nailed in the doc. Right. It's like one of those, you know. Well, what do you feel? You kind of know what's going to happen if you're him. Now, it's funny that you say this because Kalika came away from it feeling sorry for him. Interesting. I mean, Even his body language

was terrible in it. I just thought they needed at least one more episode to show the second and third Super Bowls and the win streak and actually turn them into a dynasty. To skip that over, I was like, what? So now we're just doing basically like the

TMZ version of the dynasty versus the actual dynasty. So they'll appreciate that over at the office. So as, that was my question about it. My question was, after they won the first Super Bowl, like how are they going to do this? I was like, these motherfuckers won six Super Bowls. So like, how are they going to do it?

But I thought that the way they moved through those and they get right in two minutes. Yeah. They really just like, it was a montage. Because the thing is,

it didn't help the case of, I think they were trying to make the case that Brady might've even been a little more important than Belichick. But in the second and third Super Bowls,

he wasn't. The defense and Belichick were the reasons they won the second and third. Brady was probably the number three reason, but he wasn't number one or number twoichick were the reasons they won the second and third. Brady was probably the number three reason, but he wasn't number one or number two. It was the defense and it was Belichick. But the way they wanted to tell the story was they wanted to

get straight to the struggles of the Patriots. They wanted to get to when as soon as Brady had ascended and now we're going. They wanted to get to the rise of Tom Brady as the most important offensive player in the history of the league. So they went past those parts and then they went straight to the late the late 2000s early aughts where it's it's tom brady's world and then you get into aaron hernandez and all

that different type of stuff and then at the end bill belichick they to me at least to her they made it feel like the guy who got kicked out of the dynasty. That's kind of the way they made it feel. But you would do it different. I'm not talking about how I would do it. It's more a case of, I didn't feel like Belichick got enough credit, especially for the first three. Because there's six titles in all, and they won three in four years. And the first, second, and third one, he was the dominant reason they won the title

and the people he built and the decisions he made and how good the defense was. And there is no dynasty without the first three, and that was him. And Brady was a big part of it, but not as big as Belichick. And then I think the second three Super Bowls, Brady was probably more responsible than Belichick was. So I think the second, the second three Super Bowls, Brady was probably

more responsible than Belichick was. Why do you think he sat down for it? So it ended up evened out. Why do you think he sat down for it? Because I think he worked

for the team and they were like, you're fucking sitting down for this. That's right. And that's why his body language from the beginning, he knows what's going to happen.

There's standoffish, there's certain things he wouldn't answer. Yeah, he knows. We know that Belichick can be a good interview and media person if he wants to be.

He did not want to be for this. Last question. What's the black show right now? Oh, good question. Do we even have one? What's the black show right now? Well, last year was

a bad year for black shows. A bunch of them were canceled. Like a bunch of them were canceled. But you know what I'm going to say? What the black show is right now? P-Valley. You ever watch it? On Starz? Yep. Fantastic. Is it good? Yes. Really? yes really fantastic either p valley there's two either p valley or bmf i would say p valley or bmf p valley is you know i kind of like things set you know yeah i got you but then

uh but bmf is is like one of those they we just lost one of the power shows that got canceled, but a lot of people like to sit down and watch BMF. They just had, it goes back, and early hip hop and the whole BMF empire and all that stuff. If I was going to say the black show right now, I would say either P-Valley or BMF. I like to watch BMF.

I like to watch it. P-Valley is great to me. It's a BMF. I like to watch it. P-Valley is great to me. It's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a great show. Now it's a little true bloody, more on the true blood part of it,

but it's like a, it's a, it's a great show. But like, there was a lot of black shows last, last year, a lot of great black shows that got canceled, but like ones that I'm excited about.

Or shows that just ended, like Atlanta didn't get canceled. It just finished. It just, it just finished. Like, so it was canceled. It just finished. It just finished. So it was kind of over. Insecure ended a couple of years ago. So there's a lot of real estate right there

for one to come up and really capture people again. But I like P-Valley. I like BMF a lot. I was thinking about Insecure because we were talking about yesterday with we were talking about how Grey's Anatomy is still going. And it's still going, but nobody from about how Grey's Anatomy is still going and it's still going but nobody from the original Grey's Anatomy is on the show

I think Meredith comes on like a little bit but they just kind of kept the infrastructure which is always what I thought they should have done with ER ER just should still be on TV they should just be different doctors and then this person leaves and more people come in I feel like they could have done that with Insecure I think they just could have gone back and found people come in. I feel like they could have done that with Insecure.

I think they just could have gone back and found somebody else in their early 20s and tried to do a different type of show. But there's, that window is open right now for a show like that and I don't know where it is.

You know what my idea is? We talked about it before. What is it? It's flipping Cameron Crowe, man. It's flipping singles. Crowe man it's flipping singles that's that's a that's a banger I mean with the same sensibility if you had that move you guys never seen singles

singles is like one of the they we do this there's a new category on the rewatchables Bill's talking about it uh congratulations by the you i appreciate that what a win for you this one is one where i vote no singles is like uh so i love singles but if you think about singles just real quick the culture the connection all of that stuff and

then the music is such a big part of it right, you do that with an all-black cast. The backdrop, you know, it's Atlanta, it's LA, it's wherever it is, right? And the backdrop is hip-hop and all these people intertwined. I'm telling you, it would be hard. Essentially, what Insecure was, not quite as heavy into the music,

but it would be dope. It would be dope. Insecure, it's kind of Issa's story, though, where she doesn't want to do it anymore she probably wants to take it with her no I get it well and you think like

Insecure and Atlanta are so tied to these two people that were just singularly talented that's tough to replicate so we just need more of them

where do we find more of them they're around it's coming like when things it's coming the Korn era the Korn era is here

Korn Jefferson era don't make shout out to Korn don't makeorn era is here Korn Jefferson era don't make shout out to Korn don't make one 200 million dollar movie make 10 20 million dollar movies Korn is talking to shit

what a what a fantastic development that was a great speech how did that happen Korn our Korn wins the Academy Award but how is he that poised

when he won a fucking Oscar and went up to the stage and then gave a whole speech upbraiding the entire industry for not making more movies like this. That's fucking unbelievable. At their biggest night, just gets up there and does his thing, man. Cord fucking Jefferson. The speech was as good as the movie.

It was great. All right. Van Lathan, we can hear you on Higher Learning. Absolutely. We can hear you on The Ring of Verse. Pew pew. We can occasionally hear you on The Rewatchables, including in Rock Bottom Month.

Rock Bottom Month. You're on the schedule for Rock Bottom Month. Good to see you. Thank you for the Jade and Daniel's insight, especially. We'll see what happens. I appreciate it. All right, peace. All right.

Bye-bye. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Raheem Palmer. Thanks to Van Lathan. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti. As always, don't forget youtube.com slash Bill Simmons if you want to watch videos or clips from this podcast. And I will see you on Thursday. I don't have a few years with him

on the wayside on the Bruce I never said I don't have Must be 21 plus and president in select states. Fando is offering

online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit Fando.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 800-9-with-it in Indiana, 800-522-4700, or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 877-770-STOP in Louisiana, mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, 800 800 gambler.net in west virginia 800-522-4700 in wyoming hope is

here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 7 support of massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope ny or text hope ny in new york