The Bill Simmons Podcast - Nuggets-Wolves Game 7 Legacy Check, OKC’s Big Issue, an NFL Complaint, and Boston’s Eight-Year Run With Rob Mahoney and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Rob Mahoney to discuss how the Timberwolves blew out the Nuggets in Game 6, who has the biggest legacy implications for Game 7, Nikola Jokic's historic career playoff stats, Thunder-Mavericks, Knicks-Pacers, and more (1:05). Finally, Bill opens a Michelob Ultra six-pack and runs through six topics, including NFL scheduling, the death of a sports dynasty, 'Inside the NBA,' playoff hockey, the PGA tournament, and the Celtics' "historic-adjacent" run (1:14:26). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Rob Mahoney and Chris Ryan Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, Minnesota-Denver gets weird yet again, plus a lot of other sports stuff next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill

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on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. YouTube.com slash at Bill Simmons. Me, Rob Mahoney, Chris Ryan. That's next. And then at the end, I did a little Michelob Ultra six pack about a bunch of different things. I really just wanted to talk shit

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And Denver, Minnesota, game six, which had a chance to be game of the year. It's still happening as we tape this. It is 114 to 68. Minnesota. This series got shaken up in a snow globe and sniffed some bath salts and just went in yet another direction. CR, we never get to start with you. You're just a guy.

I'm just a guy on a couch. Guy on a couch. You haven't been out there in game six, but you have some thoughts. I bet $1,000 on Denver under 70. Do you think that's going to... You're still in it. It's looking real good. Mahoney, what happened? Why is this series torturing us? And I saw on Twitter somebody... I don't even follow that many people, but somebody

was like, we deserve a game seven of this. And I'm like, I can't think of one good start to finish game we've had in this series yet. It's been the most compelling series of non-ESPN classic games that I think I've ever seen. What is going on in this series? Yeah, it's been

incredibly topsy-turvy. Honestly, this one, it really felt like the Wolves won it in five minutes. It was that 20-0 run in the first quarter and Denver never got their bearings after that, even though you could see the desperation. You could see them shifting the rotation. They started Jokic in the second quarter.

They never do that. That's always his time to rest. But you could tell they knew, we can't afford to lose these minutes as well. And it didn't mean a damn thing. Minnesota just kept rolling. The energy differential between the two teams, I thought was just so stark.

It felt like the Nuggets had nothing. And it felt like everything was so easy for the Wolves all of a sudden. I thought this was going to be what happened in Game 3. And yet, Game 3, Game 4, Game 5, Denver flipped it. And I don't know where this effort went

for Minnesota. But in Game 6, it came back. You could see it immediately. They were flying around and doing the pit bull thing again. But what happened, CR? Did they lose the eye of the tiger? What happened? It felt like a different crowd here compared to game three, too. It felt like Minnesota really showed up.

Could be the last game that they get to see these guys play this season. And it just felt like these guys were tapped in. They took an eight ball of home crowd tonight before this game. And they were just flying around. They're jumping up in every passing lane and seem to be playing with like so much more extra energy than Denver had. And you know, sometimes you watch game sixes like this

and you wonder whether or not that team that has the home game seven is like, all right, we got you guys next one. You know what I mean? Like we're not going to overextend ourselves. And basically you're watching to make sure like Gordon and Murray get up off the floor when they hit the deck every couple of times.

I did feel like right before Finch pulled his guys and they were just chucking threes, they did a cutaway. Nikhil Alexander-Walker hit a three. They did a cutaway to Jokic on the bench. And he definitely had the look of a guy who was a bad guy in commando. And he was like,

I'm going to tear off your head and shit down your neck on Sunday. He had this like, when I come back, it's for all of you. So I'm not, if I'm Minnesota, I enjoy it while it lasts.

I feel like there's another Denver card to be played. Yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to play the deserve card that you were talking about. But I don't know what we deserve as a people, as a human race. I don't know that we deserve nice things, but I would sure love a very competitive,

hard-fought game seven that's not a 30-point blowout. Right. Well, I, for some reason, and I didn't bet on tonight's game, but Denver was getting, was getting plus, they were plus two, which seemed like, wow, that's crazy.

They just won the last three. But the reason I thought it was a stay away was it was hard for me to imagine Minnesota just losing four straight games. I heard a stat at Termini and Eddie. I was driving around listening

and driving to work today and they were talking and I think they had only lost three games once the whole year. Yeah. It's just really hard to beat a team four straight times unless they have some real flaws or you're like, have just massive strength. So that was in my head. I'm like, Oh, maybe Minnesota. And if they get a big ant game, but this was like all the reasons they won games one and two, uh, like Murray and games one, two, and six, 13 for 48, right? In three, four, five, he was way better. Denver's three-pointers in games three, four, and five, they were 36 for

75, 48%. And what were they tonight? Seven for 36. Not that. 19% tonight. 19. Christian, we just started a podcast where the entire analysis is just whoever makes more threes wins? Because I honestly feel like that was OKC Dallas last night. OKC just couldn't make a three and Dallas made two threes they shouldn't have made

and they won by 10. NBA podcasting in 2032, it's just going to be the Moriball and it's an AI that's like, this team made 41 threes. And that'll be it. But you're right. I mean, I thought maybe the key to this game, honestly,

not to grab onto something Richard Jefferson said, but you could just tell Mike Conley makes a huge difference to Minnesota. The three-pointer thing, I'm sure you'll return to that. But I couldn't believe just the decision-making was much more solid. And to the extent that you can calm guys like cat down and keep them attached to the earth he really seemed to do a good job of that but there were like little things where it's like he has an open shot but he's gonna get ant going like you you always talk about this bill

the importance of point guards the importance of like knowing who needs it knowing who needs to get rolling knowing who's got it going and needs to keep it going. And I think Mike Conley is a consummate example. He's just like the point guard. If you close your eyes and you're just like, who's the dude who's going to get 13 but set everybody up? It's him. And if he's this healthy looking,

we've gone from Achilles strain to he looks fine to me. If he can go back on Sunday, I don't know. I mean, this is much more of a coin toss than I think Denver maybe would be comfortable with. I want to split both of those points, though, because I think the playmaking from Minnesota was a huge part of this game. And having Conley clearly critical to that,

but also just having days in between to look at the tape and have a plan of how to deal with the doubles, it felt like the Wolves just didn't have a clear idea of what they wanted to do last time. And so having some opportunity to establish this is the rhythm, this is the read, this

is where you're looking when the double comes against Cat, when the double comes against Ant, because the Nuggets are throwing that stuff at them. And of course, when you're kicking to Conley, you can trust that the swing is going to be the right swing, or he's going to find Gobert inside if that read is there. The three-point thing I think is more complicated

because I agree OKC Dallas definitely felt that way to me. This one didn't. And I think it was in part because there was so much kind of like defense affecting offense and offense affecting defense in this game as far as the energy and the momentum that, yes, Denver missed a ton of threes. But a lot of those possessions where they took threes, they didn't even get the ball and the momentum that yes, Denver missed a ton of threes, but a lot of those possessions where they took threes, they didn't even get the ball inside the three

point line. They were just kind of frittering around the perimeter for 20 seconds. And so yes, that's missing a three, but it's also just bad process and great defense. Great point. Yeah. The defense, you know, it just looked like the game two things. CR, I'd like to thank you for crediting me with caring about the point guard position and pointing out that it's important. I don't think anyone had ever come up with that before. You could feel it in game five because they were just throwing some pretty

rudimentary traps and stuff at Edwards, but there was nobody else that could take the load off them and help them out. All that stuff. Michael Porter Jr. is becoming a storyline in this series. Maybe not a road dog. Yeah.

Yeah. Has he been a home dog in this series? Maybe not a home dog. What's his best game? I guess he was in the 117. That was game three. He had 21. Yeah.

And he had 20 in a game one loss. And he's single digits in four of the six games in the season. Yeah. And Malone has been closing games with Christian Brown instead of him.

As he should. Because Christian Brown, yeah. He speaks volumes. Dante DiVincenzo West out there. You know, it's like, he looks really good. Wait, can I do an NBA countdown

on this? Michael Porter Jr., you have to step up. It's the playoffs. It's a game seven at home, Michael Porter Jr. You got to step up. He hasn't been very good, but he's got a lot of family shit going on and there's

just no way that's not going to affect him a tiny bit. Brown's been better. Their bench, Denver's bench in 3-4-5 was way more impactful than it was tonight. But, you know, I hate to just reduce it to this, but if Murray sucks, I don't think Denver can beat this Minnesota team unless they shit the bed completely. Or Jokic goes God mode and is doing the 42. But even him going God mode, he still needs the Murray piece to at least help him a little bit go God mode and is doing the 42. But even him going God mode, he still needs the Murray piece to at least help him a little bit go God mode. If Minnesota is just not that worried about Murray, I don't really know what the other options are. Let's say Murray has a bad game seven,

Rob. What's the roadmap for Denver winning anyway? I mean, it depends on how Minnesota is guarding them. And if Murray is off and he was distinctly off in this one, it only encourages them to double Jokic more, to throw more bodies at him, to put him in more difficult situations where all of a sudden, Michael Porter and KCP are having to finish a lot of possessions.

I think it gets really tricky really fast from a playmaking perspective if Jamal is off. And I mean, did I see this right? Did he just straight like airballed a layup. Did I see this right? That he just straight airballed a layup in the middle of this game? There were some plays that were really ugly for him. I'll say this too. We're coming off of the

great Rudy Gobert discourse of 2024 as we do often this time of year. Got absolutely cooked by Jokic in Game 5. There's no mistaking it. Jamal Murray did not want to take a shot around Rudyokic in game five. There's no mistaking it. Jamal Murray did not want to take a shot around Rudy Gobert in this game. And to me, Gobert's value is much less

what he does to Jokic, even though obviously he's shading and helping and playing off of Gordon, doing all those things. It's the way it is to everybody else when they go near the basket. And if Denver doesn't have that avenue to offense, I think it gets really tough for them sometimes. Rob, when you say the Gobert debate,

are you talking about the debate about whether Rudy Gobert could play in the NFL? What's his best position, do you think? Tight end. Just short yardage inside the five-yard line. The Gobert debate was interesting because nobody was pointing other people who have stopped Jokic in the past couple of years.

Like, show me the human being. Yeah. What is the list of the guys who are like, why? Hey, Rudy Gobert, why can't you be like this guy over here? The guy that shut down Jokic. It doesn't exist. They, the really, the only time we've seen somebody go toe to toe with him in any real way was Embiid in a couple of those Philly games.

You know, when Embiid was okay with playing against Jokic, which was usually at home. Not in Denver, the altitude, but at home. But that was really the only time I saw somebody throwing real haymakers at Jokic and knocking him backwards. Nobody can guard him. Davis

did a nice job with the Lakers, at least making him work, but he still outplayed Davis in both of those series. So I just don't know who the player is. Jokic was a little passive tonight? Or do you think it was like he saw it was out of control early and is just like, I'm saving the tank for Sunday?

Well, you think he's got the Terminator brain, right? So he's walking in the bar like in Terminator and he's just like scanning all the threats and all that. And maybe the computer brain was just scanned. It's like threat high, can't win, save energy Sunday. Are they playing Saturday or Sunday?

I can't remember. Sunday. Yeah, yeah. So he's the Terminator. He's a commando villain. I mean, we got time to get Predator in here, die hard. Like, let's keep it moving. Well, he's definitely like one of the taken,

the guys at the end on the yacht, right? That Liam Neeson has to go through to get to the Sultan. He's one of the three guys at the end. Now I feel like you're just typecasting it based on country of origin. I know. He looks like the scary bodyguard two guys before our hero gets to kill the final guy, right?

It's like, oh, this is going to be a fight. He's taking this guy on now. I think his brothers are probably the last guys. But yeah, he's a bunch of different villains. To me, he was the only one I felt okay about on the Denver side today. The Caldwell Pope, Edwards feeling comfortable again, taking him, backing him down and doing the MJ turnaround, I thought was a bad sign. I thought Denver had solved that. And in general, I thought they had solved some Ant stuff. And then today, really the only thing that was positive for Denver was that it looked like Ant

fell seven feet to the ground at one point. Maybe he was going to get carried out. Then he gets right up. He's fine. That was going to be one of the all time dumbest leaving your guys in up 25. Like if Ant had, had accidentally like broken his coccyx, like trying to climb the ladder there. Uh, he might be actually heard him just like, yeah, it's fine. I'll, I'll wear, I'll care about care about it later. That was one of those that if you were 35, 32 years old, you're probably still down. Yeah. Oh, I'm hurting just from watching it. If you're 45, you're dead.

What did you see from how the T-Wolves in the parts of the game that mattered, Rob? Did they do anything different with theokic, or was just the shooting went sideways and it didn't matter? I didn't see anything dramatically different. I think there was a little more pressure than the one-on-one cooking that he had an opportunity to do in Game 5. So that was,

it felt a little bit different, and they were able to kind of shade into his space a bit more. But mostly I thought they rushed him. I thought they just had a better sense of his timing in this. And honestly, Jokic just looked a little bit more mortal. You know, some of those push shots, some of the stuff around the rim. And again, that's all this feeding into itself of him feeling the urgency and the necessity of having to hit those shots.

And then all of a sudden they stopped going when everything is kind of counting on you in that moment. And you know, Jamal doesn't have it. Mike Porter doesn't have it. Aaron Gordon isn't even as accessible in this game as he's been in some of the other ones. Rob, did they have Kat on Jokic more? I guess I didn't really notice that from Game 5. Was Kat his primary defender

this whole stretch, or was this an adjustment? By and large, Kat, and especially in that first quarter, I thought Kat played great defense one-on-one against Jokic. I find myself apparently just going into full-blown Rudy Gobert PR. I love it.

I thought part of the issue in Game 5 for them was Cat got in foul trouble so early that Gobert had to be the primary for large portions of that game. When nobody really wants that to happen, the Timberwolves included. And so the more that Cat can stay in these games and be this effective,

the better off they're going to have even just like a chance to win. Plus, I mean, where was Luke Garza in game five? I don't know. I haven't heard that from anybody. I think there's a very good correlation between Luke Garza getting on the floor in a playoff game and them winning.

Because it's usually you're up by 30. They're winning by 40 or losing by 40. I don't mind Luke Garza. Let's take a quick break for the podcast and I want to throw some Yoko stats at you. This NBA playoffs

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Seven days after receipt, max refund $5. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Superbowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. I did all this Jokic work thinking if they won tonight, he would at least have a good game

or if it was a close game, he'd have a good game. So some of these stats are off, but I was looking at all the guys who played at least 75 playoff games where he ranked in points, rebounds, and assists just against the 75 plus playoff games where he ranked in points, rebounds, and assists just against the 75 plus playoff game guys.

Where do you guys think he is points per game? Guys who played 75 playoff games or more. What is his overall ranking against everybody in history? I'm going to go top 10. Ninth? Ninth. What do you got, Rob? That feels high for points per game. I'm going to go top 10. Okay. Ninth?

Ninth. What do you got, Rob? That feels high for points per game. I'm going to say 17th. He's fifth. Fifth? 27.7 points a game. He's fifth.

In points per game. Fifth. Nice. How about rebounds? Where would you guys put him? That's going to be high. I'll go 15th for that. Okay.

I'll take the over on that one. I'm going to go ninth. All right, Rob. Oh, yeah. No, Rob wins that one. No, you win it. He's 11th. Okay.

12.2 rebounds a game. 11th all time in the history of basketball. Yeah. What are we playing six minutes? Let's go assists. Yeah. Where do we want? Let's go assist. Yeah. Where do you, where do you think he is for assist?

All time. 75 plus games. See that one may be lower just by point guards, racking them up, but he's gotta be, he's gotta, I still have some great playoff numbers. I'm going to say,

I'm going to say 15. Total assists or points or assists per game? Assists per game. Oh, I'm going to go like, I'm going to go like six. I'm going to say 15. Total assists or points or assists per game? Assists per game. Oh, I'm going to go like six. I'm going to say 15. Rob barely wins that one too. 11th.

Okay. So he's fifth, 11th, and 11th in the three most important categories. What do I win, by the way? Is this like an OKC $25,000 shot situation? Everyone's respect on this live show. Oh. LeBron James. LeBron James,

LeBron James, fourth in points, 28.4, 37th in rebounds, 13th in assists. So he's behind Jokic in two to three. Yeah.

Larry Bird, 17th in points, 28th rebounds, 18th assists, well behind Jokic. Giannis, better than I expected. He's eighth in points,

13th in rebounds, and 32nd in assists. Wow. And then Magic Johnson, 50th in points, 53rd in rebounds, first in assists. So the only guys who are in the top 30 in all three categories, 75 plus games or more, Jokic, LeBron, and Bird. And Jokic is convincingly ahead of both guys in this. He is one of the craziest. There's all these different lists you can make where it's like, how many guys, 75 plus games, 20, 10, and three. It's like 10. He's on that list. How about 24 and 10? There's like eight guys who did that. What about just 19, six and six? There's like six guys that did that. Him as a playoff guy, I feel like is actually underrated because we're watching it in real time.

And one of the great things about him, in big games, he always delivers. So I don't know. Do those stats seem crazy to you or do you feel like it's a little like late 90s baseball when the home runs started taking off and it becomes harder to judge because we have more offense now. I was just going to say that the cool thing about watching him and the cool thing about getting that historical context is that his game doesn't feel cheap at all.

Like he's basically playing. I mean, you could play in 1984. You could play in 1994. Yeah. And he could play now, you know, whether or not like Rasheed Wallace agrees, I don't know. But like, I mean,

I'm just, it just seems like he's got a timeless game. Um, Bob Ryan was on Rusillo talking about how like, he's just a basketball player. He's not the greatest athlete. He's not the greatest this, that,

or the other, but he is a master basketball player. And I think that's, what's cool is he's not doing this by also throwing up 21 threes a game or something like insane like that. This is all coming out of like his weird junk ball that works for him. Yeah, I mean, the thing he does well is something that works well in every era of basketball. To your point, Chris, which is he solves problems. And that's what makes him so scary in a game seven.

It's what's made him so scary from the first time he got to the playoffs where he was putting up basically near triple doubles right off the bat. So Ant had 27 today. And in their wins, he had 43, 27, and 27. What do you have in their losses? 19, 44, and 18. He is basically averaging 30 a game for the series. Seems good. Is it reductive to say game seven comes down to

who has a better game, Antor Jokic? Yes. Yes, it is. But it's cool to say that. Explain why. Well, I think we've circled so many of these other guys on both sides, right? Like in a lot of ways, the Nuggets do go as Jamal Murray goes.

And the Wolves can be very fallible when they don't have Mike Conley. And so, yes, a lot of pressure is gathering around both of those stars. And I think these last two games have been great opportunities for both of them to answer their respective moments, right? Jokic gets his MVP, has an absolute monster game, indisputable. Ant gets trapped and taken out of game five in a lot of ways, comes back. I think he had 19 points in his first 15

minutes of this game, just right out of the gate. It was so clear, get a better hold on how to attack Denver's defense. But you don't get to do that stuff if the rest of the team isn't working, especially if you're Ant. You're not getting the ball in the right spots to beat the trap and beat the double if the rest of your team isn't clued

on how to do that. Chris, can you give us your favorite forced media narratives from the series so far? Because it feels like we've had more than usual. Well, I mean, this one's definitely started to create some. I think that the

imaginary group of people who are anti- Jokic, I think that there's four or three. One of them is Justin Verrier, unfortunately. But I think even he is... I mean, I think there's a degree to which that's a bit. And there's also a justice just like, do we have to crown Denver now in February or whatever? What a curmudgeon that guy is.

Jesus. How do you live with him, Rob? We're trying to bring him out of his shell. The Gobert versus Jokic thing. Nobody believes in Jokic piece. What else is there?

I thought... I love the, like, is the real problem with Minnesota that Chris Finch can't walk the sidelines. That's that's a good one. I how about the subplot the sub take on that which is why can't Chris Finch walk the sidelines because he's he's an older man who just put it. How about I just put one of those arm crutches and fucking suck it up. Where's that.

Where's that. Who's going to make a bunch of guys to lift him up in like a kind of a chair? Yeah. Like one of those scooters with his, with like that holds his leg and he just scoots around to yell at the refs. I think from a Minnesota standpoint, Towns has been a fun one that nobody's really kind of unlocked the right awesome Carl Anthony Towns take.

I mean, he still does some of the dumbest things that any good player does. I thought he was really good tonight. He flexed on them though towards the end of the game and I was just like, just take it down just like one degree. He can't. He's only got one volume. That's the thing.

He can't. He's like the, he's, yeah, he can't help himself. That's it? That's all you got for narratives here? Because I have a game we're about to play here. So get your narratives out now. Oh, damn. Okay, let's play the game and I'll try and dial some more up then.

Game seven, legacy check. Oh, yeah. Let's have a draft. Yeah. Reggie Jackson's first overall. CR, I'll give you first pick. Game seven, legacy, most at stake. Who do you have? I think I'm going to go Gobert. Gobert? Interesting. Why? Because I think Ant and Jokic are fine either way. There's no way you're going to be like, if Jokic loses, there's not going to be like, this

guy's fake. Like, this guy doesn't actually have it. Ant is 22, ascendant. Everybody loves him. People are talking about him like he's Jordan. It seems like it's going to go in that direction. Yeah, like he already won. Cat, I don't really

think is like a legacy situation. I think it's like to go in that direction. Yeah, like he already won. Cat, I don't really think is like a legacy situation. I think it's like, are you actually like an all-star level player? Can you stay on the floor in big situations? So you just get down to like they mortgaged the farm for this Gobert trade. They have both looked like the dumbest move ever and then maybe

the smartest move ever and that it was just Utah didn't know how to use Rudy Gobert. And to be fair, I don't think he's been getting played off the floor like he has in past postseasons. This has just been a matter of coming up

against an immovable object in Jokic. So I think that Gobert, who has become now under the microscope of like, you got fucking, you got worked in game five and like you're not

defensive player of the year. I think it kind of like this is a little bit of a make or break game seven for him how about that i'm gonna say the go bear thing which i thought was mostly a complete overreaction by people it did lead to draymond comparing himself how well he did against jokic which is just easily irrefutable plus anyone who watched any of those games look man we all come back from vacation with some crazy ideas. Jokic literally owns the Warriors. I just thought that was nuts.

Everybody was kind of like, okay, dude. All right, what do you have for... So, Go Bears off the board, Rob. Yep. Who do you have? Number two draft pick, legacy at stake, game seven. Glenn Taylor slash A-R are they are they draftable Minnesota

draftable yeah you know one way or the other one of those groups is not going to be owning the Timberwolves for the foreseeable future is Glenn because Glenn Taylor was courtside game before I think he was he was courtside I don't I think he was courtside.

I haven't really seen him a ton, but I wonder if he's the bad luck omen or something like that. Oh, it's like Donald Sterling? Yeah, or just something like that. I don't know if he was there tonight. I think A-Rod was out there tonight, right?

I thought they showed him courtside. I don't know what the jurisdiction is on that. Who's allowed to sit where and how they split that up. I don't think they do either. That's sort of the problem. It's super awkward. All right,

what's the legacy pick? My legacy pick, I agree that it's too early for Jokic, Orient. Yes. Although I will say if one of them has

an absolutely abominable game, I do think that would be a talking point the next day. But back-to-back Nuggets, I think, would be my pick. Because if they, you know, defending the title round to come back from 2-0, at one point, there are 19-1 odds to win the title. That drops.

Then they rally back three straight games in a row. The ship has been righted. They lose game six. Okay. And then if they lose game seven at home, that's just a weird one. It's, you know, I, I say this all the time. Title defenses have to be part of a championship,

at least a little bit. And losing a game seven at home the year after you win the title, when you have a healthy team, that's, that's not a great one. So I would go there. What do you got next year? Um, is it Towns time? Yeah, let's do Cat. Is Cat going to be part of this

Minnesota nucleus going forward? Because Gobert is probably untradeable. You're never going to touch Ant. Jaden's the perfect wingman there. Mike signed up and people love him. I like that you're going first names it's like you're like doris cr well this is what happens in the playoffs you watch these guys every night and you start to just refer to them like that i know mr mcdaniel's like i work

at the new york times uh i i would say cat is next because cat is like if if he has a terrible game seven does that also make it... He's toxic waste to whatever team might go for him. How many suitors are there for him? If it's just like, yo, this is a guy who's going to fill it up offensively in the regular season, but is going to do nine boneheaded things a year,

including lose you a playoff game when everything's on the line. With all due respect, nine a year seems incredibly generous. Yeah, that would be immaturity. Yeah. But we're not talking about the other side of it too, which is what if Cat has an amazing game or just the idea that

a team with Carl Anthony Towns is a critical component, a guy who has been criticized for his temperament like we are here for the particulars of his game and what he is and he isn't and you beat the defending champions to get to the Western Conference Finals, that's a huge moment for Cat.

Also, when it unravels for him in games, you do get the sense like it's Minnesota is the Thanksgiving dinner table where everything is going fine and then Uncle Bobby has his second glass of wine.

He has one more action. Oh no! And everybody gets a little tense because Towns is unraveling. Put the fork down! Uncle Bobby has his second glass of wine. Jamie Lee Curtis has one more. And it's like, oh no. And everybody gets a little tense because Towns is unraveling. Put the fork down. James McDaniels is hurling forks across the room. Yeah, I like the Jamie Lee Curtis fork analogy. I think with Towns,

he's out of anybody in this game on either end, if you were like, somebody's going to absolutely shit the bed in the biggest possible way and be the biggest reason their team loses, what's going to absolutely shit the bed in the biggest possible way and be the biggest reason their team loses, what's going to happen to that person this summer? He's probably the one that would become the trade bait person, right?

If he just stunk in a game seven. I don't really think Denver has anybody that could suck in a game seven and cause them to overreact. Yeah, I mean, because even, I feel like Porter has ceded whatever claim he had to being the third guy on that team to Gordon

pretty recently, like completely now. So you're almost like happy with what you get from Porter. Cat can go out on Sunday and get two fouls in five minutes. And like the whole thing is on tilt. He's fouling Jokic 70 feet from the basket. That's in play. I'm going to full court press Jokic and pick up two quick fouls.

And it just throws their whole rotation off. I think that both of these teams are really finely balanced, but it can tilt, right? If Jamal Murray is out, if Mike Conley is out, something here can happen. And if Cat gets into foul trouble or Cat starts flipping out at the refs and he's lagging behind on getting back on defense

and all the things that we've seen that are possible, I think that could spell real trouble for them. I think the Cat conversation is interesting because you have to have it if you lose. You have to at least consider what your team could look like with a different kind of quasi

star player or star player in that spot. But I don't know how you come out of this Nugget series, win or lose, and think Cat wasn't essential to what we were trying to do. And I think the way Gobert guards Jokic is a key part of that. I don't know how you would come to the conclusion

that that guy is someone you can afford to lose if Gobert is going to get absolutely cooked in that one-on-one matchup. And even if Denver does bow out early, they're going to be around. You're going to have to keep going against and through these guys at some point or another in the playoffs for the foreseeable future. And

clearly, Towns is a big way in which you battle with them. Yeah, and I guess also, I don't know if GMs do this. I don't know if coaching staffs do this, but if you re-simulate this Western Conference playoffs and Minnesota draws a different path to the conference finals, so they don't play Denver in the second round

and maybe they're in this Thunder-Dallas series in some capacity. Minnesota is obviously built to defeat Denver, but Denver is still the team that they had to get built to defeat. So I wonder whether or not if you're Minnesota, you're like, hey, it's not going to happen overnight. We may have to take a couple of swings at this before we knock them off their

perch. Towns is a 50-50-80 guy in the playoffs. It's been really good for the most part. I got to say, as somebody who doesn't really care either way, like what happens in this series, I'm going to have some different bets, but I find myself rooting for Towns.

And I can't really explain it because to me, he's one of the most frustrating players in the league. I've certainly made fun of him a bunch on this podcast. I don't really have high expectations for him to come through in big games. I assume he's usually going to do something wrong, but there's so much potential with him. He's also not a jerk. It seems like- He's a good guy. That's the thing. I actually like towns. I want him to figure it out. But if you're going to give me two choices and one of them is he's going to have three fouls with

10 minutes left in the second quarter, it's almost like you have to prove to me that's not you anymore. so we'll see him I would say him and Murray are the most interesting non-stars for this game seven who do you have for one more legacy pick Rob? well so is Murray off the board already?

he is not I think I'm actually I think I'm actually going to go Porter because I think if Murray has a bad series or continues to have a bad series in a lot of ways, his reputation in the playoffs, he's hit clutch shots, he's hit game winners, he's come up in basically every big moment prior to this that you could expect a guy to come up.

And so there is some bulletproof armor with that. Michael Porter Jr. makes, what, $40 million. He was not good in the NBA Finals last year. I'm not saying he wasn't good throughout the playoff run. I'm not saying he didn't have great individual games, but he's proven to be the kind of guy who can edge into three-point specialization to a degree that is detrimental to the Nuggets. If he's not a big-time rebounder, if he's not getting after it on defense,

and he's just this guy that we saw in this game, maybe that's not a big-time rebounder, if he's not getting after it on defense, and he's just this guy that we saw in this game, maybe that's not a player that hangs around Denver in the long term. Versus I have a hard time seeing any team-building consequences for Jamal Murray. He's a critical part of what they're doing there. Michael Porter Jr., if Christian Brown is finishing games over him, then maybe he is not the solution,

and maybe he's the movable piece. So he's got movable piece. So he's got $36 million next year, $38 million, and then $40.8 million. CR, if the Nuggets called the Sixers and say, let's play this out. This is stupid, but terrible Porter game. Start to worry about, wow, what we're paying for him. Could we turn that into two guys? And they call Philly and they say, we'll trade him a New York cap space. Give us some picks. Whatever. Like, what... I mean, you only have two players in your roster, CR.

I'm aware. What is Porter's value in the league? Because when we do the Ringer Top 100, I think he's in the 60s or 70s for us, right? He's a good player. Yeah, he's a really good player, but he's expensive. Most people probably, maybe I'm wrong in this assumption,

but do you guys all assume that if he had a higher usage rate, he'd also have much better numbers? He does seem like the kind of guy who... I can't tell. It's like a Tobias thing because then when Tobias had the ball more, it was like,

well, Tobias, he's not really in the offense. If he had the ball more and then he had to have the ball more when Embiid was out and it was like, well, Tobias, he's not really in the offense. If he had the ball more, and then he had to have the ball more when Embiid was out, and it was the exact same production. It was actually worse, right? He feels like a cav to me. A cav? A cav, yeah. He feels like

a let's trade our problem for your problem kind of guy. Not a, hey, the Sixers, we didn't get Paul George, but MPJ, he's right there. You know, like, it feels more like we have to make some adjustments because these guys can't stand each other anymore. And by all accounts, like, it doesn't seem like,

I mean, for, he's had a really tough end of the season, obviously, but it doesn't seem like the Nuggets guys aren't, like. No. Well, that's why the hypothetical is. It's not like a giddy situation where giddy is, like, what the hell is going on here? Oh, I can't wait to talk about that.

Yeah, the Porter thing. We're just saying like, worst case scenarios for different players in the game. Yeah. He's not someone you have to move by any means. Yeah.

But that's their move if they were like, man, we got a little, you know, this got stale fast. We got to fix something. My last legacy pick, I'm going off the board, guys.

Mike Inori. So if he beats Denver in a game seven, then I would assume they're the favorite in the Western finals. Does this become a Luke Walton 2016 situation where he did such a good job as the interim guy, all of a sudden he's like our next Laker coach. And then by December, we're getting little subtweets and, you know, Sean's writing like, LeBron's already upset with Mike Norrie. Right now, the Lakers job is open. We assume the Cavs job will probably be open after that. You mean after the hit piece? Possibly.

An hour after the series ended? Yeah. Are there any other openings? Wizards. But they allegedly love the guy who was the interim coach last year. I have no idea why. Okay.

Yeah, I was going to say it's funny that it's game seven and neither coach is feeling any heat. Because Finch obviously... I'll just say this about Finch. He's obviously awesome. If they have any kind of meltdown, I do think he takes a little bit of heat for it.

If it's like, man, they lost their heads in Game 7, they were not ready for the spotlight, then it's like last year, it was McDaniels punching the wall, and it just seemed like they came apart again. You're going to want... I don't think that they need Tibbs out there, and they had Tibbs. They had that experience.

But you wonder whether... This is my last pick of the legacy draft. I'm not saying I actually believe this. But it's interesting to be going into this and not have either coach really under any kind of scrutiny. I would say they're... Rob, wouldn't you say these are two of the five

probably safest coaches right now? These two, Spolstra. Steve Kerr just got a huge contract. Yeah. I mean, the Celtics are 72-20 and I wouldn't say the coach is safe. Thibodeau, maybe, but he's got a year left in his deal

and they haven't re-signed him yet, which I think is interesting. Pretty entrenched. Kidd feels pretty locked in there. Kidd got an extension, so he's there. The list is less than eight. I would say Dagnall's

probably in that category. Yeah, Dagnall, that's a good one. Are we sure Bud is safe? But it's already unsafe. We're already on Bud Watch, yeah. Nick Nurse, I guess, is safe? Yeah, he's safe. Yeah, he's safe.

And Finch has been impressive in terms of how much he's proven with this team so quickly, how he's been able to get everyone on the same page it is interesting that neither coach in a like a series is this big would take heat chris but maybe we need to be pointing the fingers at look teammate of the year perhaps but mike conley torpedoing chris finch's knee maybe that affects maybe that's the real legacy oh i, I like that. I like that. The ultimate coach killer, Mike Conley. Who would have guessed? I had one more

legacy pick. Altitude. Altitude is supposed to be this huge advantage. If Minnesota just walks in game seven, it's like, do I believe in altitude anymore? I don't know. Is this Apex Mountain for altitude? Could be. Nadir Mountain. I don't want to make predictions. I don't know

if you want to make predictions for Saturday. I want to do that right now. Do you think that if Minnesota is going to win, it's going to be they jump them and it happens in the first half, basically, and Minnesota is just like, we have more energy. We're more up for this. We're ready to eat you guys alive. And they open up some kind of lead that they protect. Or do you think that this is a nail biter? Well, hasn't that been the pattern with the Denver that you got to catch them in the first quarter, basically? Yeah. The Minnesota wins have all been like, but the Lakers series where they had the lead, I think in four of the five

games, they're up by like 10 in the first half, I think in four of them. So Denver, for some reason is a slow burn. So you're right. They have to come out there with the same defense they had tonight. And to me, it's McDaniels and Nas are the two guys that when they're out at midcourt and their arms are flying around

and they're doing that whole thing. If they were going to rig the game, who do you think they would rig the game for, CR? Who does the league want to advance? I think they want Joker in the Western Conference Finals. I think Joker... Against Luka? Joker, Luka would be their preferred.

I mean, Ant in the Conference Finals would be pretty nice for the league. I think Ant. I think there's a nice little Ant run they could have here leading into the Olympics. Yeah, it's the three time MVP being in the conference finals when LeBron

and KD and Steph are all out. I think having a guy with that kind of silverware is if I was going to rig the game, I'd probably put Joker in there. It's not a bad thing. I was confused the other day when Gobert got fined for the money gesture after the call.

It's like, what money is changing hands in favor of whom? The mechanics of that were a little lost on me. Well, Tatum's gotten eight technicals this year by just waving his hand like that. So I still can't figure out technicals and fines at all. Tatum got thrown out this year for just waving at the ref. Oh, wait. One more legacy pick. I forgot. Heating pads. Oh, wait. One more legacy pick. I forgot. Heating pads.

Oh. But a legacy pick for the ghost suspension. Like if Denver wins, you can always just be like, that can go into the handles of the NBA suspension.

Yeah. The Draymond Nutpunch Hall of Fame. It's going to be living on the internet, on Reddit, on Twitter forever. That is the argument fodder that this series really needed was why didn't Jamal Murray get suspended? I think you were talking about this on, I don't know if you were talking about with Termini or on Sunday, Bill,

but you guys were just like, you were talking about the heating pad thing. You're like, somebody could have slipped. You know, Cat could have just absolutely, he could have thing. You're like, somebody could have slipped. You know, Kat could have just absolutely, he could have fallen. It's like, all right, these guys are professional athletes. They can handle a heating pad. I don't know.

Those things are slippery. You step on them, your leg could go sideways. Yeah. Rob, where did you stand on that? I never got your take. I know you talked about it probably on Ringer NBA,

but did you have an I can't believe he didn't get suspended take or did you not care? I mean, I certainly would prefer he not get suspended. I don't want anyone to seriously get suspended. Well, all of us do, yeah.

I wouldn't have blamed the league office if they had. And I think most importantly, for a player in Jamal Murray I have a ton of respect for and who battles as hard as anybody on the floor. Just loser shit, frankly.

Yeah. Like, not what you would expect from a Nuggets team that has not lost its composure in previous series and previous matchups. And I think that kind of feeds into what you were saying, Chris, about the Timberwolves, if they do kind of punch the Nuggets in the mouth up front, this is the one opponent the Nuggets have lost their cool against. And they haven't really been able to battle back

in the same way they were against the Lakers. They kind of seem to know that if they get down early, it can get away from them so quickly. And for whatever that does to the Nuggets psychologically, Jamal Murray is a critical part of it. Chris, prediction? Minnesota. Yeah, I'm going to go

Minnesota. Minnesota? Interesting. I like the fact that they know they can win in Denver. They know they can beat this team two times in a Interesting. I like the fact that they know they can win in Denver. They know they can beat this team two times in a row. I think that even though you could make the argument that those guys were like, this was our championship, was to roll up the score in game six.

I think that they have to be feeling better about themselves going into game seven. And I don't know. I like their chances. I just think that if they've got Con know. I like their chances. I just think that if they've got Conley, I like their chances. They are plus five underdogs in game seven on FanDuel.

What do you think, Rob? I think Nuggets by a little bit more than that, but maybe like nine. And I think we're due for an excellent Jamal Murray game. I don't think there's any evidence on the court to suggest we are headed there. But just by the timing,

it just kind of feels like it's going to be one of his moments. And I can't wait to see what he comes up with. I would lean Denver. Obviously, they're favored. But I just trust their infrastructure and I trust more guys on their team in a game seven. And I've talked about this over and over again

in this podcast. Those game sevens, that list of guys you trust, it just starts going sideways, right? It's like, Oh, Jada McDaniel, they just left them wide open in the corner and he didn't want to shoot. Fuck. Right. It's, uh, Kyle Anderson comes in and air balls a three and all of a sudden you have four guys you can trust in a game seven Denver. You know, I, I trust the four starters because of some of the situations they were in last

year. I don't think Reggie Jackson is scared at all. I actually weirdly trust Christian Brown. Yeah. Um, I don't know why, but at home and I think the home will help some of their younger guys, but I probably trust maybe they're not going to play that many guys either.

Right. Like in a game seven, you I probably trust maybe two more guys. They're not going to play that many guys either, right? Like in a game seven, you play six, seven guys. Yeah, there's things with Minnesota that, like if you're betting on them, you're betting big bucks on them. And during a game, if you bet on one of the two teams, you're like, God, why did I do that? I think just trusting Towns in a giant game,

we haven't had a lot of evidence that that's a good idea. McDaniels, his shooting, their bench just in general, Ant, who you're still betting on a 22-year-old guy who's going to want to be the hero of a game. Can he calm himself down? Can he just find the angles? Can he play like he did in game four, basically, but in a game seven, there's just not a lot of evidence that if you're trusting a young player and some of the variables they have that that comes through. With all that said, they might come out and just be, you know, it could be Hagler-Hearns and they're just flying around. I think how the game is going to be called is going to really matter, especially in this one. What were you

going to say, CR? No, I was just going to like the whole theme of this Minnesota run is like everybody going on their pods after and being like, is this really happening? Yeah. Is this happening? We get to see a guard do this? What if this is his first game seven? Well, easily in this stage.

I can't remember if he had one before. What if he comes out and he has a signature like, yeah, it's me, dudes if he comes out and he has like a signature like, yeah, it's me, dudes. Like, game. I just, I can't wait for that. I fully expect it.

Honestly. I mean, because honestly, the difference between him having like a 19 point, like not so great, but still like at the end of the day, decent game and scoring 40 could be the difference

in the game itself. And by the way, Holiday was 0 for 5 and Reggie Jackson was 0 for 6 tonight. And those bench guys that you need coming off where they literally couldn't make a shot, it would make you a little nervous. Go ahead. And that's one area where the game

seven minutes will, whatever bench guys are not working, will not play. And I thought this was a game where Jokic probably could have gone for 45 minutes if the game had been close, but there was just no opportunity to do that. I think what's worth noting is that the series where teams do come back from down 0-2,

a lot of them are 7. They're winning 7 situations. And those aren't usually home teams, the higher-seeded teams winning out of the gate. But there's going to be some hiccup along the way. Winning 4 straight is almost impossible to do in these competitive circumstances. So it's kind of still fitting the playbook if Denver is going to be some hiccup along the way. Winning four straight is almost impossible to do in these competitive circumstances. So it's kind of still fitting the playbook

if Denver is going to win this thing that, yeah, it was going to be seven. It wasn't going to be six in Minnesota. We're going to take one more break. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Securian Canada gives you that coverage. For more than 65 years, Securian Canada has been helping Canadians build secure tomorrows.

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procedures one specially developed helmet answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. All right. We got to hit the other two series just really quick. OKC Dallas. I still feel like OKC might be a better team and they're just not making threes. I know that's like a crazy take because that's part of it's basketball. You're not making shots you don't deserve to win. But I watched them all year. I know you did, Rob. I know you did, Chris. All the shots that they made during the season just stopped going in three, four games ago. I don't understand what happened to Jalen Williams. Isaiah Joe yesterday, they tried to get him going. He can't make a shot.

I just kind of find it hard to believe that they're just going to stop shooting well. That's it. Their season ended for shooting well 10 days ago, and that's that. Meanwhile, Dallas, I think, has kind of shot above their... kicked above their weight with their three-point shots. Well, they're role players, certainly. Yeah. Yes. Luka's been pretty up and down from three.

But PJ Washington and like yeah yeah you're Dale Ellis now like that's that's pretty wild yeah he's 50 percent from three he averaged 10 and 5 last round so I want to say that Dallas has figured out okay see Luca figured out some sort of zen thing about he somebody probably showed him a montage of all the times he pitched at calls like hey man this is what you look like. He clearly was making an effort to have like a better demeanor and just, you know, slow down and be happier. But I don't think, I don't think Oklahoma city can play this bad again.

And if they do, I'm happy to be wrong. It still might meet Dallas will beat them. But Rob, you watched them all year. Yeah. This does not look like, okay, see, and I don't really know what happened. And I'm not going to credit the Dallas defense because I thought they missed a lot of wide open shots. I think you should credit the Dallas defense

some. They played really well. Some is fine. Here's the thing. Dallas's interior defense has been great to the point that it has pressurized all of those three-point attempts because that's, on a lot of these possessions, the only thing the Thunder have going. It's either Shea in isolation,

and he's been able to get to his stuff, but when they fire the ball around, it's basically threes or bust. And you would think, I agree, this is the best three-point percentage team in the regular season. You expect them to hit more than, I think it was, what, a quarter of their shots?

Right. That's three straight games. Inexplicable, but sometimes the playoffs are inexplicable and it's one of those things causally where when the young team does that we look at it and say are they a little nervous are those moments a little big for guys who haven't been there before the one case in which i do think there's some truth to that is jaylen williams who by my eye just looks a little tentative in those kind of 50-50, should I attack or should I swing the ball kinds of situations. And when you're a playoff killer,

you go for it. And when you're a young guy trying to figure it out, sometimes you just kind of let the ball in the moment go by you. And I think he's had a couple too many of those, which isn't a detriment, but just to say he's a young guy who's on his arc and he's having to learn these lessons in real time against a Mavericks team that's been pretty ruthless so far. Yeah. And Dallas's role player guys all seem to be having career series where Oklahoma's role players seem to be quaking a little bit. They've been decent and there's a Shea game out there that could definitely rear its head next. But I feel like Dallas has two of the three best players in this series and seems to have a balance and they know what they're going to do every time

they go down the floor. And I sometimes feel like when Oklahoma city is coming down the floor, I'm like, I have no idea what you guys are going to do with it. Is this going to be Shea one on five? Is this going to be swing it to the guy who you really don't want taking that three, like Giddy or Dort or whatever? It doesn't feel like the ball winds up

where they want it to. Whereas Dallas, it's either Luka or Kyrie creating their own shot or a wide open three for the hottest dude in the world right now. I thought Shea was getting everywhere he wanted in the second half of the game. And either he would shoot or he would just find somebody for a wide open three I liked all the shots they got I know and they just didn't go in and that's so if i'm okay

See, i'm super encouraged by that The jaylen williams thing is the most terrifying piece because we watched him all year. That guy was fucking awesome and I'm with you. I mean d Dallas is definitely tilting their defense toward him. They're trying to make him make quick decisions, but it doesn't explain his three. He was one of the 10 best three-point shooters in the league. Yeah, but a low-volume guy.

He didn't want to take a lot of threes, and that moment where Dallas dares you to do it to beat the rotation, he just doesn't have that quick-fire kind of urgency in him right now. Right. So that's, I feel like they can fix that. The thing that really scares me for them, there's just so many times where you just don't feel like they're getting the big rebound. And Dallas over and over again was getting these offensive rebounds or these tap outs on them.

And when they're trying to get stops and they'll get the stop and then they can't get the rebound because they're not big enough. And I really think like, you know, I'm not the first person to make this point, but I made the point of the trade deadline. I, they went into the playoffs thinking that the other Jalen Williams could be their backup big. And I don't think he's big enough. And they, they just feel really small in this series in a way that I think Dallas is exposed ironically with one of the people being Gafford, that I think Dallas is exposed, ironically, with one of the people being Gafford, who I think OKC could have trumped them in a trade. But it feels like over and over again, they just can't get that one rebound. How many times has Dallas batted a ball back where Luka gets it and either makes a 28-footer or throws it in the corner to P.J.

Washington for a wide open three? I felt like that was the difference last night. It was like three threes that OKC missed, three plays where Dallas got a rebound and then a basket after that. And it was just like six plays was the difference. But I feel like OKC can play with this team. And I think they'd be super disappointed if they don't win this. Do you guys think Gafford is the single most texted about player by other nba team fan bases being like we could we have had this guy like what the hell like the lakers all my sisters i'm like so wait we've been doing the andre drummond like rotating cast of yeah of dead centers now and like gafford was out there like this guy looks incredible maybe this is what okc should be doing is every trade deadline with all these picks that they have,

just trade for the guy you think might hurt your team so that somebody else doesn't get him. And then even if you're not going to play him, Bon Voyage, Daniel Gafford, enjoy Aruba, wherever you want to go, have fun, but you're not going to be on the team we're going to play in the playoffs. Because that's been really painful for them. Take him out of the equation.

Well, I wonder why they thought they must have talked about him, right? They could have trumped any offer Dallas had. I wonder what made them think they were good. Like, did they think, we're not ready this year, we're a year away? I mean, it might be.

We're so committed to this smaller lineup and all these guys who can either shoot, pass, drive, and that's just who we are and we don't want to bring a center into that. I can't figure out why they didn't do it. I mean, they were the number one seed in one of the youngest teams in the league. I think there's reason for them to feel good about where they were. But did you feel going into the playoffs that this wasn't going to hurt them at some point

not being big enough? It felt like it could, for sure. It was the thing that we were all circling but I thought there was a possibility they could play through it and frankly there's still a possibility they can play through it. They're not out of this series yet. Not next round though. That would be tough. If it's not now it's going to be

next round whoever they wind up playing. I thought they were going to win this series and I don't feel bad about the pick. The thing about three-pointers is they can veer the other way and all of a sudden you go 18 for 40 and now there's a game seven OKC. But the thing is,

Luka, I would say, is in the top three least afraid of a game seven in somebody else's house. And I think Kyrie might be in the top three as well. Yeah, maybe. I mean, those are two guys who, like, some of the biggest plays

in game seven history in you know opposing arenas just absolutely brutal stuff from them in terms of ripping teams hearts out but I hear you on all this and especially on the size thing I think something that factors into that whether they have other bigs or not if Chet is going to be your five your starting five you have to find ways for him to actually be involved in the main mechanisms of the offense and where he's not just the guy who forces the switch and then stands off to the side. That's not enough

from that spot if this is what it's going to give you. It sounds like you're counting out OKC. I feel defeat in your voice. I think Dallas is better than them in this series. I don't know if in totality Dallas is better than Oklahoma City over the course of don't know if in totality, Dallas is better than Oklahoma City over the course of a season

and in any other series, but Dallas knows exactly what they're doing. And I think Oklahoma City is still trying to figure out what to do against Dallas. That's what it feels like. Oklahoma City, they have a distinct style

and they've been great about sticking to their principles all year. But within possessions, they feel like they're searching. Versus Luka feels like he's diagnosing throw-and-no-look lobs, right? There's just a difference in the decision-making and in the processing that's going on

behind some of these plays that I do think Dallas is going to win. And I was with you up front, Bill. I thought OKC was going to advance out of this series. I felt really good about their chances here. But the Mavs have had their number. And I think the physicality and the size have been an inarguable part of that. So we got to mention the giddy

piece because if you're making the case for Dallas to close it out, part of it is OKC feels a little off and it's because of this giddy part. Giddy was a huge part of the team the last couple of years, especially last year. They had really figured out the yin-yang with him and SGA, and he had the ball enough. And it was just a super competitive guy who- Big rebounder for them too, right? He just was a winning player. That's the best way I'd put it. Had some off the court stuff that was well-documented. Lost his confidence a little. SGA ascended. And they never totally figured out the giddy part Chris talk

about what we were talking about today uh it just I just noticed that when the thunder of one uh the giddy is not in those group interviews not now now I'm not necessarily like deducing anything from that but like he just seems apart from the team uh well and then we also heard like that even in the locker room he's like first guy out and it just seems like from the team. Well, and then we also heard that even in the locker room, he's the first guy out. It just seems like they're headed for he will not be on the team. He's up for an extension. They've been yanking his minutes around.

They finally benched him for the first time in a couple years for the game yesterday, which was weird because the series was tied at two. It wasn't like 3-1, this is our last move. That was strangely a narrative that emerged almost instantaneously in this series The series was tied at two. It wasn't like 3-1. This is our last move. Like it's a 2-2 series. Strangely, a narrative that emerged almost instantaneously in this series was like the Giddy minutes. How can they play Giddy?

When is Giddy going to get the hook? Is Giddy going to go back in? You know, I think you could make the argument and I've seen this suggested that the Thunder, part of the reason why they didn't make a trade for a big man at the deadline, I don't really know what Hayward has given them, but one of the reason why they didn't make a trade for a big man at the deadline, I don't really know what Hayward has given them,

but one of the reasons why they did what they did is they wanted to see this group of guys in this kind of situation to properly evaluate the people that they had. I don't mean to be stealing somebody's tweet, but that's basically the conventional wisdom. And if that's the case, then you're getting your answer about Giddy,

at least in this context, or whatever's going on with him. He's an incredibly useful NBA player, so I think he'll find success at some other stop, but it does seem like he's... It's like if you're a game... You're game six of this series, and you're still

trying to figure out what to do with Giddy, that's not a great sign. It should either be like, we can't play Giddy this series, and he's out or whatever it is, but we're starting him, but he's not coming out in the second half, but we might put him in spot for in the late third quarter or early fourth quarter. That's not working. No, it's not working. And yeah, the financial part of this being looped in makes it extra complicated. If this guy is not going to be a part of your future, what do you do in terms of potentially extending or resigning?

Do you end up having to move him prematurely because of the financial deadlines? Everything gets weird very quickly. And you can see how the isolation or kind of him feeling apart from the team could happen. Because from his perspective, going into what could be a potential contract year, do you want to be in this weird liminal space role-wise

where you're kind of starting or not starting or you're getting yanked out of games where it's all very high profile in terms of what you can't do well? And that could be a huge problem for him. So I do think whether it's him or the rebounding, from OKC's perspective, when you are a young team,

you want to get to the playoffs and make sure that the problems you think you have are actually your problems. And you kind of got to take it on the chin the first time, especially when you're this young and you do want to get these guys experience. But just clarify that the thing that's been

hanging over you, you've been having nightmares about, make sure that it's real before you start making roster moves about it. Yeah. I guess I would just say that as somebody who's been on the other side of this with the Sixers when they were young and full of promise. They were the same in Grantland.

I would say don't wait too long. Yes. Don't have too many experimental postseasons to get a sense of who you guys are. Shea is Shea now and is a top five NBA player. And Chet's only going to get better. Presumably, Kaysan and Jalen, they're going to get better. You've got so many picks and things to trade. Don't wait. Don't be like, hey, we like where we're at. We're going to be competitive for

the next five years. These things don't come around every time and you're going to blink your eyes and somebody's going to be 30. Trust me. I love you using the Doris tense over and over again with some of these guys. I really appreciate it. The good news for OKC is they've never been in...

Doris tense. OKC's never been in a situation before where they had a young, young contender with somebody coming up for a contract who sucked in a playoff series and then they traded him over. Oh no, that's exactly what happened with James Harden. Can I redo that in the Hubie tense where I just used you the entire time? You're Oklahoma City. Okay, you're Oklahoma City. You got Josh Giddey coming up for a contract extension. So one of the things with Josh Giddey is they would have to make this move basically in June, next month.

Because once we get past July, then it gets weird with, if it's not a contract extension. I forget, the rules get complicated, especially if he does the, doesn't it get harder to trade him? Once like October 31st, once we're into that last season, you can't, once you don't agree on an extension, I think it gets harder to trade somebody. Right. Am I imagining that? Well, he wouldn't be on the qualifying offer. He would still be in his fourth, his fourth season. Oh yeah, you're right. I fucked that up. Yeah. So the timing, we weren't live on YouTube. We would have just cut that out. And I'm fucked right now. I look like an idiot. You're Bill Simmons.

You got that wrong. I'm Bill Simmons. I said it was a great idea to go live. Obviously not. No, but they could trade him to somebody who could extend him before this next season. I have some teams for you guys, just for fun.

We're going to do the Giddy Trade Machine? Yeah. The Rothko of the Giddy Trade Machine is here? Number one with a bullet is San Antonio. Absolutely. That's like the perfect Josh Giddy team. Yeah. Do you see their point guards

last year? Didn't we just do this with Jeremy Sohan? No, but he's an actual real point guard. He's a ball handler. He's more of a ball handler. His court vision is better. But to me, they're kind of variations of the same theme,

which is Giddey is a little more flow-oriented on offense and Sohan's more of a defensive value. He could throw an entry pass. Yes, I do think he could do that. Is Josh Giddey worth more than the eighth pick in this horrendous draft? Yes. I do think he could do that. Is Josh Giddey worth more than the eighth pick in this horrendous draft? I would need to be able to name eight people in this draft. I cannot do that

for you right now. Spurs. I got Washington just because they need players all over the place. Maybe he can help rebuild Jordan Poole. That sounds like an incredible chemistry experiment. Utah. I don't mind that. Colin Sexton.

Giddy. Foundation or something. Get a scorer off the bench. Orlando. Because they need another point guard who can't shoot. Rude. That was a joke. Atlanta.

If they end up trading one or both of those guys, they need to guard back. And then I have Heat Culture. Oh, yeah. Competitive guy. And then Chris is... He's a competitive guy?

Or you just say he is? He was until this year, whatever the fuck happened. And then the Philadelphia 76ers, just because you have two players in your roster. Yeah. Bring him on down. I mean, look, he's definitely like a handy offensive playmaker. I do love watching guys like that.

I'm buying Giddy. I'm buying everyone else's Giddy stock. I think this is a weird situation because I think he's somebody that needs the ball a lot. Derek White for Giddy, straight up? God, no. God, no. Derek White, one of the best two shaved heads

decisions of the last year, him and Caruso. Any other Giddey teams before we move on to the next? What about the Grizzlies? You know, the healthier jaw coming back, like having him as an option

on the three. I don't think he's a full-time one because of the same offensive limitations they've been dealing with in Memphis for what seems like decades now in terms of small forwards who can't shoot.

But having a small forward who could pass is a nice arrow to have in the quiver, so to speak. It's interesting that you consider Giddey a small forward. I mean, I think you could make a case he's like an Eric Snow type

big guard too, depending on who's on his team. Do you think he can do that full time though? I think you could make a case he's like an Eric Snow type big guard too, depending on who's on his team. Do you think he can do that full time though? I think it is conspicuous that when the Thunder go to lineups without Shea and really all throughout the season, it's been J-Dub who's the guy who's kind of driving and orienting the offense. And it's not Giddy. Even though I agree with you, some of the skill set would lend itself to that. But the fact that they don't see him as that guy is a bit of,

you know, it sets something off in my brain. Maybe not a full on red, a yellow flag. What are you expecting from Knicks Pacers, Rob? Game six. I think the Pacers are going to win.

Okay. I think they're going to come back with, again, another weird yo-yoing energy series. But the Knicks do seem like they have to pick their spots a little bit, just given the health. Do you feel like this is going to be a little bit of a cruise control Knicks game and then they are

all jacked up for seven? I do think they're going to be jacked up for seven regardless. I don't know if they have cruise control over there. That may not really be in their makeup, but I just think there are limitations that they're going to bump up against with Indy on its home floor, with the way that

some of their role guys have played at home. It feels like one of those series that's going back. And from there, I love the Knicks' chances. I mean, I like New York regardless is the answer,

but I do think the Pacers are going to extend it. I'll say this, Chris Ryan. They're playing Friday night. If there's a Game 7, it would be Sunday afternoon. In New York. You think that that's a little bit of an ice patch game for New York? No, that's a really rough one for New York.

Like, they're playing every other day, every way. But let's say they go all out and they lose game six by five. But it was everyone plays 40-plus minutes. Who matters for them. And then they got to run it back 36 hours later. I think that's probably better for the team with the young legs. But I would never trust Indiana in a game seven after what we watched

in game five. No, the Halliburton thing. The deer in the headlights routine. Talk about legacy games. That was tough. But there's an interesting Celtics wrinkle with this where if the Knicks somehow win game six in Indy, they would need a game seven for that spot if the OKC Dallas series ends. Oh, no, wait a second. Yeah, I can't remember what the variable schedule is for the East if it ends early. Originally, if the Timberwolves lost tonight and the Knicks Pacers won, then that game would have been... No, I still think it's

Sunday for game seven. Yeah, it is. It's definitely Sunday. The question is if there is no game seven, Knicks Pacers. Then I think it goes Tuesday and Thursday. Yeah, I think it would be Tuesday in Boston. Because there was a scenario where Boston, if Minnesota lost and then the Knicks won,

they would have had to go to Boston because they need a Sunday game, but now they have the Sunday game. Got you. There you go. But I think that's a really hard turnaround for a team that's playing basically six guys. You're right.

3 p.m. on Sunday would be rough. So I wonder if that incentivizes them to try and take them out even more. I mean, like you said, Tibbs doesn't really do, we're going to do this at half speed. How long did you guys stare at the photo of young Tibbs with hair? I'm still staring at it.

Seven minutes. I also was trying to figure out whether he got arrested in season three of Miami Vice. I thought he looked like he was, I don't know how many movies he looked like he was in, but it was at least 25. You can tell me he was in Talented Mr. Ripley.

I don't know. He was Freddie's friend in Talented Mr. Ripley in the record store. He drove Glenn Frey to a gas station. This could be a new rewatchables category. Was Tom Thibodeau in this movie somewhere? That's good. Yeah. Pluto had a Miami Vice

week last week. I might have watched a couple episodes. Every week is Miami Vice week. Philip Baker Hall was at a Miami Vice CR. Yeah. Do you know that? Yes. I've watched the video of all the guys who have been, yeah. I was all excited because I just thought Pluto had handed over a channel to Miami Vice,

but then it got replaced this week by the $6 million man, which was my first favorite show when I was a kid and is a very, very old show. So I don't know what happened to Miami Vice. You do know in the streaming era, every day can be Miami Vice day. I get that, Rob, but it's more fun if you just turn it on and it's playing already. That's what I'm used to. You kids don't understand. You kids don't understand the joy of not understanding. Also, Phil then gets to watch 17 Ozempic ads on Pluto. Yeah. Rob, I think we're going to announce right here that you're going to be involved with our recaps of Clipped on the FX channel.

Yeah. Six episodes. They've mailed out some screeners. Are we excited for that show or not? Excited is a word. I'm intrigued. All right, you're off the show. You know what?

I didn't like the light in your eyes. No, I'm excited to cover it. That's for damn sure. Will it be a train wreck? Who's to say? I'm very anxious to see how they got Fish on board with this thing. I can't wait to see

what the faux JJ Reddick's jump shot looks like in real time. Lots of critiquing of the on-screen basketball to come. I can't wait to see what the faux JJ Reddick's jump shot looks like in real time. Lots of critiquing of the on-screen basketball to come. I can't wait. C.R., are you excited?

Yeah, absolutely. For Clips, for sure. Are you excited for faux JJ Reddick to coach the Lakers? I would actually, that would be amazing if faux JJ Reddick

was the coach of the Lakers. Just an actor playing JJ Reddick? Yeah. Is the JJ Reddick thing ridiculous to the Lakers. She's an actor playing JJ Redick? Yeah. Is the JJ Redick thing ridiculous to you guys or does it make sense? Whether it makes sense or not does seem kind of inevitable now at this point.

It's going to be great for content. I'm rooting for it. I just see a bunch of podcasters being hired for head coaching jobs and I'm available. Rob's getting ready? You know? Let's put my number out there.

I want to know how hard Mike Inori's job is. You go up to Chris Finch. Chris Finch is like, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, gotcha. And then you get to go out and just be like, hey, he said to come over here. It seems a little reductive. We found this out

with the Luke Walton year. He went like 24-0 to start the year. Remember when Steve Carr had the back surgery? And it led to him being hired as the Laker coach for some crazy number. He got the Kings job. And now he's like, you know, the assistant number three in the Cavs, basically based on this 24-game sample size on the Warriors when it was one of the best teams of the decade. So I don't know. I will say this. Mike Inori is kind of the CR of the NBA coaching world, like immaculate vibes from Mike Inori. He seems cool. Great hang. Very beloved coach. I could, I think he's bringing a little more to the table on vibes

alone. All right. We're wrapping up the YouTube live show. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you to CR, Chris Ryan. It was good to see you guys. And stay tuned for the rest of the podcast, which is going up later tonight. Can we do a quick shout out for the Ringer residency and in particular, Group Chat Live? If you want to grab their tickets for Group Chat Live on June 18th, come and hang with us.

Los Angeles El Rey Theater. Absolutely. It is, what's the website? ringer.com slash events. Events. There you go. Good job, Rob. Good job, Rob.

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All right, now it's time for a very special part of today's episode brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand. Michelob Ultra is good beer. The crisp, light, and refreshing type of beer with only 95 calories. So order yourself an Ultra six-pack while we unpack six major things going on in the world of sports and basketball right now. I'm saving my biggest basketball point for last. I had to start with football because I've been thinking a lot about the end of a dynasty. As you know, I'm a Patriot fan. As you know, I love the Patriots and wanted this to keep going forever and ever and ever. And it's not. And there's 10 stages. It's like

the 10 stages of grief, eight stages of grief, seven stages, whatever the stages are. I have 10 for realizing that your NFL dynasty is really over. First off, the end of the era playoff loss when you're like, Ooh, we definitely wouldn't have lost a game like that before. That was January, 2020 Brady's last home playoff game. Titans 20, Pats 13. It was bad. Felt like Brady was leaving. Felt like the magic was over. Didn't know for sure. Then best player that leaves or retires. That was Brady leaving. False hope with the new guys is the third sign. So first we had Cam Newton.

I remember nephew Kyle bought a Cam Newton Jersey or I bought it for him. I can't remember, but we had a Cam Newton Jersey in our life. We were excited for it. That fell apart. Then we drafted Mac Jones. False hope yet again, sucked us back. You know how it worked out. The fourth thing is championship envy, which is a weird sensation when your team has been successful

for as long as the Patriots were. But you know, Mahomes wins one, you start being like, ah, the new guy. I remember when we were the new guy. Then Brady goes to Tampa. He wins one. It's like, oh man, kind of rooting for Brady. That's pathetic in its own right. You're rooting for somebody else to win a Super Bowl. The fifth sign is the playoff loss slash annihilation from a team that you used to own, which in this case was Buffalo, who the Patriots owned for 20 years.

January 22nd, or January 2022, Bills 47, Patriots 17. Felt like a specific, oh wow, this is kind of really over. That leads to stage six. He looking back at the dynasty, arguing about who was more responsible, because we did all that. Brady, Belichick, who's more responsible? Brady just won with Tampa.

And we argued about this for months. It actually mattered because it didn't matter because the dynasty was already over. Number seven, the nagging realization there's nothing special about the franchise whatsoever anymore. Everything is gone. Brady's gone. Belichick's hit another stage of his career.

But you don't really deep down want to admit it yet until stage number eight, rock bottom, rooting against your team to get a better draft pick. Would have been inconceivable to root against the Patriots at any point in the 21st century until last year. We did that, which leads to the ninth sign, dumping the last link of the dynasty, Belichick, followed by everyone talking about a new direction, new atmosphere. I like the old atmosphere when we won Super Bowls and made the Super Bowl almost every other year. But finally, the 10th and last one, and this is when it really, really sinks in. This is the last stage of grief.

The schedule comes out. The Patriots had no Sunday night games or Monday night games, just a complete shutout. We were in Carolinaville. We were in like mid 2010s Jacksonville area. And, uh, they have one Thursday game, one night game all season week three at the jets. And then after that, it's just Sundays the rest of the way because the Patriots suck and nobody cares about them. So those are my 10 stages of grief. Um, speaking of the schedule, my second thing I wanted to hit in the six pack, my single biggest NFL pet peeve. I have a lot of NFL pet peeves. I don't know if anyone's complained about Roger Goodell in the NFL more than I have over the last 20 years. I like to complain. They tilt the schedule every year so that there's too many early games on certain Sundays. And we

complain about it every year and the NFL listens to us. And then they hold up both middle fingers like this and they say, we don't care. Why do they do this? For instance, week two, there's 10 early games on Sunday and three late games, 10 early games all at the same time. I can put six games on my TV situation. I think I have a, you know, a, a top, top, top TV situation. There's four games. I just can't have on at any point. Uh, there's another one week for eight games early for late week, seven, they only have 10 Sunday games because of bi-weeks. Seven early games, three late. Week nine, nine early, three late. What are we doing? We like games for six, seven straight hours. I was trying to think of reasons they do this.

First reason is they hate us, which I think is probably the leader in the clubhouse. They have a secret deal with the Red Zone channel to stack two Sundays a year with early games. So people want to watch the Red Zone if possible. They hate us. That's another reason. They think people have TVs with 10 screens. I promise you we don't. They hate us.

That's another reason. They're trying to stack the late afternoon game for CBS and Fox one time each. Conceivable. And the last thing I thought of you last week, I think Warner already lost the NBA. I'm sorry. I can only pass along things I've heard and intuitions I have. So I think people are starting to realize this, even though there's been some reporting and it's like, no, no, Warner has a right to match. It's just they got to figure out this whole, how they get network. The ship has sailed. So we've moved into, is this it for inside the NBA mode?

And people are getting hysterical about this because we hate almost everything. Inside the NBA is one of the few things we really like. Inside the NBA is going to be fine. If they don't keep the NBA package, which they're not going to, somebody else is going to take Barkley and they're going to take Kenny and probably Shaq. I think Shaq, it's almost like a salary cap trade.

We have to take his contract. I don't know if Ernie leaves TNT slash Turner at this point. He's been there since I think 1892. But Barkley and Kenny, I, to me, this is like a Buck Aikman thing. There'll be a package deal. They'll go somewhere else. And guess what? The NBA wants to keep Barkley and Kenny as a postgame show for one of the three streamers that is, that is going to get this package. NBC, Peacock, ESPN, Amazon. They're going to one of those three places. We're not losing those guys.

So save your hysteria and sadness. Oh my God, this would be the worst thing ever. Let's not overthink this. Those guys are going to go to one of the three places. Zasloff, who runs Warner and who's done some things that he's taken heat for. There's no question. This would be a deal breaker.

Like he's canceled movies, but if he somehow is like, nope, you're under contract, you can't leave. There will be no inside the NBA. If we can't have the NBA, then you guys aren't getting that. He's not doing that. So what I think is going to happen,

my prediction is it becomes a Buck Aikman situation. Amazon will back up the truck and I wouldn't count out ESPN. And I wouldn't count out NBC. There's three suitors and guess what? All of them are going to want Barkley and Kenny. So those guys are fine. Save your tears.

Fourth thing I have for you, playoff hockey. I am now a casual Bruins fan, as you know. And this is, you know, it's bittersweet for me because when I was growing up all the way through college, I loved hockey as much as I love basketball, football, baseball. I've written about this in the past. The Bruins owner ruined hockey for me. I just didn't care as much. The regular season became irrelevant. And now I am a casual Bruins fan. I just watched the playoffs and that's it. I pop in, I pop out. I don't tweet about hockey.

I don't talk about it on the podcast because you know why? The NHL fans love them to death. They're lunatics. It's like only they can talk about the sport, only they can consume it. And if you're a casual fan, you just have to stay out of it.

I respect it. As you can see, I stay out of hockey. But I still watch hockey and I still watch Bruins playoff games and I still know what's going on. So I'm just going to use this one time right here to talk about the best part of playoff hockey, which is working up a rational, genuine hatred for whoever your opponent is for your favorite team. And I hate the Panthers.

They're playing Florida in the second round. The Bruins are down 3-2. Game six is Friday night. Just some highlights of hatred for the Panthers. Nick Cousins, you're the most despised guy in the league. I don't think it took this Bruins series to bring up animosity from a group toward you. You're probably the dirtiest player in the league,

and if you were playing in a bigger market, you'd be a bigger deal, but nobody gives a shit toward you. You're probably the dirtiest player in the league. And if you were playing in a bigger market, you'd be a bigger deal, but nobody gives a shit about you because you're in Florida. So there's that. Montour, you do this thing where you stick your tongue out after being separated by the officials.

It's lame. Honestly, it's lame. You look like a loser. We have all the ability in social media and stuff to just cut this out and add different video and stuff. You look like a loser. We have all the ability in social media and stuff to just cut this out and add different videos and stuff. You suck. Matthew Kachuk, your dad, Melrose guy, went to Modern Catholic. I was living in Massachusetts during that time. He was a Cam Neely type. We all rooted for him. Went to Winnipeg. Good career.

Always liked him. It's too bad his son is the Antichrist. He fought Pasternak. Pasternak doesn't fight. It's one of those, there's certain guys you have on your team, when they get in a fight, you're terrified the whole time because they don't know how to fight.

As you can see, when Pasternak's trying to throw a punch, he's just missing these wild haymakers, lands on the ground. because they don't know how to fight. As you can see, when Pasta's trying to throw a punt, he's just missing these wild haymakers. Lands on the ground. Then Kachuk's basically trying to Kermit Washington him as he's on the ground. What a dick. Even if you win game six, which you might,

I hope you get punched in the handshake line. I don't like you. You would have been an awesome Bruin, but you're on another team. I don't like you. You would have been an awesome Bruin, but you're on another team and I don't like you. Sam Bennett, the villain of this series for Bruins fans who cheap shot at Marchand, who cheated for the biggest goal of game four. And I hope he gets severe food poisoning tonight

before game six. Last but not least Florida fans settle down you didn't know what hockey was until like 1993 you you literally didn't have hockey you've never won a cup the average person who follows sports has no idea what city you're attached to you're the Florida Panthers. Are you in Jacksonville? Are you in Orlando? Are you in Palm Beach? Nobody knows. The answer is Miami. But literally most people don't know that. You sit there, you're dressed in red. You're waving your dumb hankies. You're wearing your DeSantis 2026 t-shirts under your jerseys. Nobody knows where the fuck you play fuck off last but not least the Panthers in general

I never thought I'd hate a team more than the Lightning but I think I hate you guys more so that's it, playoff hockey really fun to hate another team it's not rational but I don't like any of you fifth on the six pack, the PGA tournament.

They finally moved it to May to make it stand out a little bit, so it wasn't the last one. So at least it's not last, but I continue to think it needs its own gimmick because the US Open is like the better version of the PGA tournament. The Masters has Augusta and then the Open is in England, Scotland, wherever it is every year. And you know what those three are. And the PGA is kind of like, ah, it's the fourth major. It's SummerSlam. So I think the gimmick should be the players should have to carry their own bags. No caddies. I've been pushing for this for 20 years. Nobody listens to me. But if you're talking about the four majors, what's the PGA? Oh, that's the one where they don't have caddies. Ooh, this is going to be tough for Tiger. He's old. He's got to carry

his own bag. Maybe he'll have less stuff in it. Oh, the younger guys have an advantage because they have to carry their own bag. Oh, watch the guy dump the bag. Oh, he kind of dumped that bag, right? It's like I was lining up his putt. It was a little bad blood. So many variables of the no caddies carrying your own bag. I just think the PGA would be great. All right. Last but not least basketball finally. So this Celtics run is historic, but historic is the wrong word because nothing's happened and there's nothing really that special about it. So I was thinking about the phrase historic adjacent. Um, they've had the best, this was thinking about the phrase historic adjacent. They've had the best,

this is just for the last eight years. They've had the best regular season record since the 16-17 season. They're 4-13 and 2-23. Only Milwaukee has won 400 games other than them. Milwaukee has 4-06. So best record last eight years. They've made the best trades

and draft picks of anyone in the league for almost a decade now. Tatum Fultz, masterpiece. Getting Horford back, smart. Porzingis, Derek White, Drew Holiday, not trading Jalen Brown for Kawhi Leonard, who's played like 45% of his games. They've just done a really nice job putting together the team. They didn't tank like a lot of these other teams. You know, like Minnesota got the number one pick with Anthony Edwards. OKC shut it down for two years and even a couple years ago, just wouldn't play SGA, even though he was one of the best young players in the league.

The Celtics really only tanked in 2014. I don't even think it was a tanking. They just weren't that good. Tatum and Brown together, they played seven years together. They've won 48 plus games, six of those seven years. They've never had a losing record. They've 12 playoff series wins. They're 60 and 44 in the postseason together, which is a crazy number. You figure if they stay together five more years, they might play 200 playoff games together. But here's the big one. So eight-year runs, I went back and I looked at eight-year runs, how many times teams made the final four,

meaning conference finals in either conference. It's not as, the Celtics have done six in the last eight, which is just not that common. It's not as, the Celtics have done six in the last eight, which is just not that common. In fact, it's only happened by math calculations 11 times since the Russell era. Russell won eight straight titles, so he's the leader of that. The Lakers from 80 to 88,

they did it eight straight times, five titles. LeBron, I'm just counting him as his own team because he was in Miami half the time, Cleveland half the time. He made it eight straight times, five titles. LeBron, I'm just counting him as his own team because he was in Miami half the time, Cleveland half the time. He made it eight straight times, three titles. The Byrd Celtics, 81 to 88, three titles, seven times. The Lakers with Jerry West and then eventually Wilt, 66 to 73, seven out of eight, one title.

And then there's six teams that did it six times out of eight. The Bulls, 91 to98, they won six titles. Golden State, 15-22, they won four. The Knicks, with Willis and those guys, five straight years, or six straight years, 69-74, two titles. The Pistons, with Rick Carlisle first and Larry Brown, they got Rasheed in year two, but 03 to 08,

six straight times, one title. Philly with Doc and eventually Moses, six titles. I'm sorry, six times, one title from 77 to 83. And the last team on that list is the Celtics from 17 to 24, six times, zero titles. I mention this because all the teams I mentioned won a title except for the Boston Celtics with this current nucleus.

So on the one hand, incredible run for them. You have six Final Fours in eight years, like anybody would take that. But they've only made the finals once. They've never won a title. And if they don't win the title this time around, then, you know,

they become historically adjacent. Cause even if you go to the teams that won five, five out of eight, where they made the final fours, the Spurs and the, in the Duncan era, they won titles. Celtics and the Cowans have a check eraurs in the Duncan era, they won titles. Celtics in the Kalanchoe era,

five out of eight, they won titles. The Lakers from 98 to 04, they won three. Detroit from 87 to 91, they won two. The Pacers in Utah in the 90s are the only two that did five out of eight

and didn't win the title. So the Celtics, at least historically, would go on that list. They would be with Reggie and the Pacers. They would be with Malone and Stockton and the Jazz. And the problem for them is there's just not a lot of historical evidence that you can keep going, going, going, and then eventually belatedly win the title. It's usually going to happen at some point during this eight-year run. The Lakers with Jerry West probably took it the longest where they made the finals a bunch of times. They made it in 62, they made it in 65. From 66 on through

73, they made it a few times and they finally won in 72. But that's probably our only example of a team that totaled and totaled and totaled away with the same two best players or the same best player and it took forever and they finally won. This is the kind of stuff I'm thinking about as we head into round three with the Boston Celtics who have had the easiest path to the finals of any team I can remember.

They're going to either play the Knicks or Indiana in the Eastern Finals. They're going to have play the Knicks or Indiana in the Eastern Finals. They're going to have home court advantage. Indiana had deer in the headlights in game five. No idea what they're capable of in a round three, but I don't have high expectations. And then the Knicks, it's like, oh, OG and Novi might come back.

If the Celtics can't beat the Knicks without Randall and Mitchell Robertson and Bogdanovich and with OG playing on a hamstring, I said it before, I'll say it again. It would go down as one of the, and I hate the word choke, but it would be on that list for Boston teams. It just would. So there you go. That was today's six major things. Remember, get yourself a six pack of McLobe Ultra, a superior light beer, an official beer sponsor of the NBA, refreshing crisp, only 95 calories.

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All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob Mahoney and Chris Ryan. Thanks to Steve Cerutti and Kyle Crane for producing. As always, don't forget about the Ringer Movies YouTube channel that we launched, as well as the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And I will see you on Sunday night with Rosilla. Until then, enjoy the weekend. We'll see you next time. Kansas Star Casino, LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit fando.com slash RG.

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