The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: A Bombshell KD to Suns Trade With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

In Part 1 of the 2023 NBA trade deadline podcasts, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss their reactions to the Suns trading for Kevin Durant—including whether this makes Phoenix title favorites, where this ranks among the biggest trade hauls of the last 10 years, and whether franchises will learn not to repeat this Nets disaster. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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where you can find an incredible slew of sports and pop culture podcasts. This podcast, this is the special trade deadline podcast. And guess what? This is only part one. The Kevin Durant trade, one of the bigger NBA trades in the history of the week. Yeah. We're going to devote part one to that. We might be doing two parts today, three parts, four parts. I have no idea. We'll see what happens. Ryan Rosillo is next. It is time. Let's bring in our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this.

It is 8.17 a.m. Pacific time. We almost did this late last night, but Nephew Kyle was nowhere to be found. Who knows where he was? He might have been in a bar. He might have been asleep. I don't know, but we're doing it today. I'm so glad.

I'm sorry. I'm too excited because I wanted to talk about this first before we get to any of the trades. I promise I'll be quick, but I'm so glad I'm sorry I'm too excited because I wanted to talk about this first before we get to any of the trades I promise I'll be quick but I'm in Arizona and then the Durant thing happens and Bill sends a text to Kyle and I and it's like oh no and I was like yeah and then it's like what do we do and then it went on for 10 minutes like I've already eaten in my hotel room I know we have a long day I'm ready to shut it down. Kyle hasn't responded. And finally I just go to Bill. I'm like, what are you asking? And then Bill kind of knew. And he's like, okay, 8am tomorrow early, ready to go boys. And we're like, yeah, sounds good. Cause you wanted to go last night.

And that was, no, I didn't, I didn't want to go last night, but I also could have been convinced. It was one of those. I had just come back from the Clippers game. I was tired. I didn't want to go last night, but I also could have been convinced. It was one of those. I had just come back from the Clippers game. I was tired. I just had M&M's. So I was like coming on a sugar high crash down. And then I'm driving back and the KD trade happens. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.

It's like 1030. What do we do? This is, I mean, we can start here. This is one of the biggest NBA trades ever. Like I was watching first take today and they were like Phoenix or they're the favorite. I'm like, guys, like out of all the pan, I have 16 Pantheon guys, right? Only six of them have ever been traded. Like at some point where they were in their prime or near the tail end or, you know, Kareem in 75, Wilton 64 and 68, Oscar in 70, Shaq in 04,

and Moses in 82, five of those six trades led to a title. So let's start there. The Suns are the favorites. I think it's them and Boston, right? They're at least the favorites in the West. I think they can win the title from this trade this year. What was your instant reaction? Yeah, I think we could talk pricing and market and all that kind of stuff

because I think that's probably one of my favorite things about what's gone on the last couple of years is just kind of figuring out, like, how do you price anything anymore? You know, it's really hard on the comps. But if you're running Phoenix with new ownership, new owner syndrome, this is a great like to talk about going from a leaked report where Isaiah Thomas is going to be running your organization to know that's not true. We got Kevin Durant a day later, like all time emotional rollercoaster, which also tells you like from the Kelvin Sampson playbook, I feel like Isaiah Thomas leaked that. And they were like, dude,

we're going to handle this because I'd heard one time when Balmer bought the Clippers, like Isaiah Thomas was just around forever being like, let me run the team feeling like you just turn on that charm. So I think the conversation bill is real simple because I know we're going to spend a lot of time on this. It's like, let me run the team. Feeling like you just turn on that charm. So I think the conversation, Bill, is real simple, because I know we're going to spend a lot of time on this. It's like, do you want to make this deal and be the favorites in the West? And there's just

something about saying... Well, did you read the reporting? Well, which part? Go ahead. Basically, like, Wosh had last night, it was, you know, they were leaning toward John Collins was going to be the trade today. And it seemed like around 8 o'clock last night, Ishbio told James Jones like, hey man, let's go get Durant.

Like, what are we doing? Let's actually do this. And that's when, and within two hours it was done, but they had to put bridges on the table. So your new owner syndrome thing, I think Ishbia last night was like, John Collins, that's going to be my first move. Let's go fucking get one of the 15 best bars ever.

Let's go. Yeah. And that's, I yeah and that's i mean that's a hard thing to resist especially with even being a new owner i mean usually the new owner is totally screwed up on the first transaction and we'll see i mean we never know like there's going to be this run in future friends for these right the worst deal danny age probably ever did in a trade was the first one where they took on race contract and then had to use a lottery pick to flip it for theo Ratliff's contract just to save a year on money. And you start going down that road.

It's like, all right, what are we doing? I mean, that's speaking to Isaiah Thomas. That's what he kept doing. He kept trading the, the expiring contract. That wasn't great for a slightly better player with a longer contract. That's what the Cavs did around LeBron the first time he was there. But I mean, if you're the sons and you go, okay, we got Booker, Paul, Aiton, Durant, you know, Cam Johnson's a bit of a loss. Bridges is a nice player. But when you go, hey, we've got those three to four dudes,

like, what are we... Yeah, which was the goal. You're just flipping your wings into Durant and you're keeping everything else. You can patch in together. You can get buyout guys. You know, you can get lucky with Damian Lee, campaign, and people like that. But you know you have the four and you can patch in together. You can get buyout guys. You know, you can get lucky with Damian Lee campaign and people like that. But, you know, you have the four and you can build around that for three years. Yeah, that's a really hard thing.

I don't care if you've been owning a team for 20 years. Like, do you want to be the favorites in the West tomorrow? It doesn't mean it doesn't guarantee anything. But, like, when you think about the other trades, right? You know, we'll go over a bunch of these things. When we talk about the Lakers at some point, you're like, okay, this move. I think we should save the other trades for tomorrow because i think this this first part should just be about this trade and all the all the tentacles of it i don't think we need i think

we could save everything for later this is by far the biggest thing because it also destroyed the nets which we can go into later yeah but it's it's not about me getting into a deep dive in the other trades it's just simply like when you're when you're sitting in the room and you're talking about hey we can do this deal. Okay, what does it guarantee us? And a lot of these deals guarantee nothing. Like, hey, we're going to win an extra round or we know we're in the top four

of the West now or whatever. This, okay, in the best version of events puts you atop everybody else in the West in a West where, you know, this now feels a little dismissive of Denver because they've been really steady and really good and they're healthy. When you watch them, you go, man, they've really figured some things

out defensively. I still don't believe that Memphis is this total mess. I still would have a lot of Memphis stock. There's other teams now where it's hard. Golden State too. You get to sit there if you're Phoenix and wake up today going, we've got a real chance to do this.

It feels a little bit like the Anthony Davis Lakers trade. Yeah, I agree. And it's a Simmons-Rosillo, we approve the trades when you give up this many assets, if you can actually guarantee that you might make the finals. Yeah. It can't be like we increased, we're good now, we're in the mix. It's got to be like, you're giving up. You think like just the Bridges piece of this alone, OG and Anobi, I think he's better than a OG and Anobi because he is. And also he's been in bigger games and he's just, we've seen him when, uh, when Booker went out, he increased his points, all that stuff. And OG Anobi is out there for like three first rounders and Zaire Williams. So you think like they got four first rounders, they got a pick swap, they got bridges.

They also got Cam Johnson who probably, if he was traded separately is worth at least a first. And maybe, you know, could they have gotten like the Lakers 2027 first for him? Like maybe. So I just think the haul that they gave up, which I think we both think was, was probably worth it if you're trying to win the title. But man, these, I don't know how to make sense of the cost of this stuff either. It's like the gas prices analogy, where it's like gas is eight bucks.

Okay, I filled my tank yesterday. It was $180. I have no idea why. I have no idea why this became the price. Think about the Barkley, your guy Barkley. Tim Perry, Andrew Lang, and Jeff Hornacek. That was the price 30 years ago. There were no picks at all.

And now it's like you're just basically gutting the rest of the decade, your two best young players, and you're hoping you can win a title in the next three years. We don't know what's going to happen. Durant and Booker on the books for, I think, $102 million in 2026, $108 million in 2027. Long-term, this might be a disaster, but they don't care. No, it might be, but I'd rather maybe have a disaster on my hands for this, for Durant, than some of the other stuff that we've seen. I know Minnesota fans, they don't want to hear about it anymore, but that's what makes this Gobert deal. People

kept going, well, if Gobert was this, then what is Durant worth? You're like, i don't know i would just hang up the phone going if you think that i'm going to do some correlation of what gobert got you and then that means the math is now eight picks or some ridiculous like there's a cap of what i can do for you remind me like the barry zito contract when they were like what did you give him and it's like okay well that means that every left-hander now is supposed to get 100 million guaranteed and you're like nope that was just a ridiculous contract like that means that every left-hander now is supposed to get $100 million guaranteed. And you're like, nope, that was just a ridiculous contract. Or the Joe Kim, Noah, Luol Deng, Evan Turner summer.

It was like, wait, is this what non-All-Stars are worth now? The Evan Turner one. I mean, it's like, you know, and that was my favorite year because every time a deal was done, they were like, dude, the cap went up, though. I'm like, so what does that mean? There's no bad deals anymore? I'm with you. I thought about it. We understand the risk.

And there is going to be a franchise that's going to have a documentary done on them in like 2033 when they lost three Hall of Famers because of these pick swaps and all this stuff. There is going to be some team that gets so emotionally gutted for like a decade because they just were like, hey, everybody's just handing out unprotected first the whole time. I also think it's going to be weird when you're going to have like four teams have 15 picks in the first round, and then they're all going to be looking to trade to somebody. And then everyone that wants to trade with them is like, I can just go to the other three teams that have multiple firsts

and undercut you. So there's a pricing thing on future firsts that you wonder where that's going. But didn't we kind of have that, though, with the Nets? Like, you think the Celtics got Tatum and Brown out of that KG Pierce trade. So we've already seen a version of this, and I think people have forgotten the Nets part of it. That is because of that trade, they got those two guys

that are now 15 years of the Celtics, basically, and they're a contender every year. So we know what the price is. The price is you might have a Tatum Brown situation down the road, but I think like, I mean, I was thinking about it. Katie is the best Phoenix son ever.

The nominees are Barkley in 93 Nash kid CP3, but he was a first team all NBA guy when he got hurt. I think he was even ahead of Giannis, right? When he got, they were 17 and two in their last 19. He was averaging 30 a game. It looked like that was going to be the guy that he is for the next four or five years. He's the best scoring forward of all time. Guys like this just don't get traded.

You know, we don't see it. The last trade was Shaq in 2004. That was 19 years ago. That's the last time we've had a Pantheon guy just move teams. We've seen free agency, but you're not allowed to trade for these guys usually. And I think that's what,

that was my biggest takeaway. Like, you know, we do, you could feel this in the air Sunday after the Kyrie trade. And there was some Suns buzz and that had been out there before. And we'd heard KD, even on my podcast, like six years ago, it was like, I liked that Devin Booker. You know, he put that out before. And we'd heard KD, even on my podcast, like six years

ago, it was like, I liked that Devin Booker, you know, he put that out there. And anytime KD is like, I liked that player. It's like, all right, we got to take that seriously. Cause he said that about Kyrie. Um, but this was the only team I don't like Sacramento couldn't have done this trade. Would he have been happy there? Yeah. Sacramento could have put the same trade together, but I don't think he would have been happy there. That's the other part of the pricing. Like if you're Phoenix, are you going, hey, if we trade for him, like we know he's going to be happy here. So does Brooklyn say, well, that means you have to pay more, whereas New Orleans gets to pay less? Or are you then saying if you're Phoenix, oh, wait, I'm supposed to pay more because it's drama free? You know, well, then who am I competing against?

Sacramento, where he's going to ask out in a year. New Orleans, where he might ask out in a year. Brandon Ingram might be a better player than Bridges, but he missed almost 30 games with a toe injury. So I just love this part of it. Sacramento would have been Barnes-Murray, Rashawn Holmes' contract, four firsts and a swap

would have been their version of this trade. But then they would have done that with KD 12 hours later going, nah, I don't really want to go to Sacramento. Now what do you do? But with Phoenix, they had laid out four days of kind of groundwork, it sounded like. There was a lot of conversation between. And that's the other thing with the tampering stuff now. Phoenix has to have some sort of sign at some point that, hey, Durant's good if you do this, right. They're not doing it otherwise.

Well, first of all, that's how agents work. I mean, that's how it works. Yeah. And like, that's why anyone who has an agent, usually you kind of know like what the hell's going to happen. So, right. You know, if you've got a guy that can, I mean, even the legal part of it where I remember one time when an agent explained it to me, I was like, wait, can I even do that? And he's like, technically, I, on your behalf, like this was back in the CAA days,

the guy was like, on your behalf, I can engage in this. And I was like, yeah, but that's not allowed. It's like, well... I'm the middleman for the average behavior. That's some dickhead on radio. Can you imagine if you're a Hall of Fame NBA player, like what kind of information you have access to here? So I look, this is the way business is done.

It doesn't remotely bother me. And I find it weird when people are offended by it. So you have, I still feel like Denver and the Suns, I have them on the same plane. But then I think it drops to the next tier unless right now it's 830, unless we see some trades. I think this puts pressure on Golden State. I think this puts pressure on Memphis

because the West is wide open. You know, Celtics like Jalen Brown broke some bone in his face yesterday. He might be out for a while. Milwaukee, Middleton hasn't looked great the whole time. The league feels really open for a bunch of different teams. And Phoenix, you know,

we don't know what Chris Paul is going to be. We'll get to him later, but they got to get 10 weeks out of him. Booker's got to come back. They got to figure out how to work all these dudes in. They got to figure out who is their five through nine guys that they can actually rely on in a playoff series. So I, you know, I saw Phoenix was like plus 460 to win the title. I was like, nah, I wouldn't bet that, but it's probably right. Like they're the third highest favorites right now.

Then just, we'll go big picture and then we'll hit some of the smaller questions. But, I mean, the KD Kyrie Nets, this is now the go-to team

that we'll mention when we're like, you know, basically like when we were growing up and they would always talk about like Ishtar. Yeah. You know, these movies that like, oh man, Ishtar or, or like Waterworld. And there's just these go-to references for, oh, Titanic.

Oh my God. You hear this stuff about Titanic. It might be another Waterworld. I feel like the KD Kyrie Nets is like that. That's like the movie version of that where anytime somebody's making big moves and trying to put together stuff i'm like man i hope that doesn't turn out like the durant kairi nets don't you feel like this is like an iconic disaster it is but you know you would do it again you would uh yeah and that's i think i think that's the lesson on all this stuff and all

these big risks i wouldn't do that i don't know about the hardened piece but yeah no the hardened thing i would have a hard time with uh you know but here's the thing i'll just always resist it's like man the nets did this and you know all this stuff they did wrong they had a guy who didn't want to play basketball okay who's who's in dallas now talking about how disrespectful everybody was to him and that he's so happy durant's able to move on so happy he got out of there yeah right the place that gave you literally everything what are you talking about and whatever the horror house like when aaron rogers goes off about how he's treated by the packers i'm like for me to take your side i need more specifics i need more specifics but did they not give you the private plane every time? Just 98% of the time?

So when Kyrie goes on these rants about like, you know, and you just go, okay, cool. So hard. Just, I need more specifics. It was great too. Windhorse saying this isn't done yet because Phoenix was somewhere Kyrie wanted to go. If I were Phoenix, I would issue a statement today

being like, we're not allowed to talk about other players, but we'll take the fine. We are not interested. We are decidedly not interested in Kyrie Irving. Fine, we know. He's like, I don't care. My first week, I'm coming out hot. Wait, hold on.

Before you go, I just got to tell you this quick thing. I went to the Clipper game last night. As you know, the only person who's probably more against having Kyrie on their team than you is probably me. It's probably we're in the finals. It was unbelievable to watch him with that Dallas team history. The guy is so talented. If you're playing, I'm just saying just from a talent standpoint.

If you're playing pickup and you've never played with a group of people before who have all been playing together for a long time and you go in you're like all right i'll trouble them you know you there's like this indoctrination period right he goes in it looked like he'd been on the team for three months like honestly it was like watching like i i couldn't believe it he was so good with the other guys and they were all playing together and it looked like they had had 20 practices and i was thinking like this is why these teams keep talking themselves into him. He's so talented and he's so smart as a basketball player that they look at it, they turn it, they stared at some more and then maybe, and Dallas will talk themselves into this. This will go great for four weeks. He's going to look awesome. And then he's going to do the

Kyrie thing. Anyway, go ahead. Oh, but like when we did Sunday, I still had like more meat on the bone once I saw like the conversation. So I did an open Monday on Kyrie and I go, you know, think about the lesson in all of this is that I can't believe there's a market for him and five teams are putting in serious offers. Yeah. Five teams. And that's that, you know, that's not including the teams that probably would have liked to taken a swing and it didn't have the assets or didn't make sense for their organizational timeline or whatever.

So, you know, I have a lot of sympathy for the teams that do this. Those Clippers picks might end up being a disaster. Like this Paul George-Kawhi pairing may not even come close. It hasn't come close since. The SGA part is worse than the picks. I mean, he's one of the best 12 guys in the league now.

Yeah, it feels that way. Look, Oklahoma City's not a bad basketball team either. I was blown away by them on Tuesday. You went, right? I was like, holy shit. Yeah, I went and I was thinking the whole time, I'm thinking like, man, if Chet was out there, this might be a top three

most fun team in the league. Just watch because they all played hard. They took the 15-minute break for when LeBron broke the record. Everyone's on the court. Which is fine, by the way. What did people think was going to happen? I don't understand. It happens every time somebody breaks the record. But they're doing

the ceremony, and I was watching their bench, and they were watching respectfully, but then the game started, and they went right back to kicking their ass. Those guys, they play hard. That Jalen Williams is I think like borderline special. Like he really might be a possible all-star maybe a little higher because of his ability on both ends. Giddy. You know, I really like that team. Anyway, with the Nets

seven playoff wins total, two sweeps, two fired coaches. They got Ben Simmons, who's just a broken human being as a basketball player at this point. Yeah, how about him the other day saying like,

it's still going to take some time. Yeah, take time, Ben. You're 30. My model with this new lineup, my model projects him at 4.6 field goal attempts per game now you might never have to shoot have you ever seen a team that has more wings

and that's like now it's 8.36am pacific time trade deadlines in a few hours everyone wants 3 and D wings they have like 7 you know and I guess they're gonna have to do at least a couple of them, but man, they were 17 and two in the last 19 before Katie got hurt. And we were, and all

these people were saying like, watch out for the nets. Nobody's playing better than them. And now it's over. And I think that Katie foot in the line thing, which we did a podcast right after that's going to be the lasting image, right? It's like a six inches, his foot's on the line. Maybe they win the title with him. I don't know what happens, but it just could never get going. Every single moment of this was a hiccup. They just could never keep it going

for more than a few weeks. And that's why I just, you know, back to the original point, like if you have a guy who's not interested in playing, another guy in Harden who's not interested in being there, and then Simmons, is I think just a different guy um mentally with the way you know he processed the game you know trying to be sympathetic about it all and then Durant who like was cool with putting it all together and you know

he didn't stick up he didn't he didn't stand up to Kyrie at any point like he I would like to know what that private stuff was but whenever we asked about the private stuff kd would be like i don't talk about him with all you know i don't talk to him about all this stuff it's like maybe you should but then again it's also probably pointless too with kairi so you know whenever i hear about like the coaches and it was nash it was jock it was marks it was sigh it's like man can you imagine being joe sigh and going are you fucking serious is this the way it's supposed to one of the most successful businessmen you know that's ever owned an nba team it's like what's happening

imagine getting a couple bourbons and joe sy and being like a core buddy for 30 years going hey how's how's this experience been like if house if house was joe sy and we were just like having cocktails or whatever like so what's it like owning this team you're like oh my god you have no idea i would i would pay i would pay 9.99 a month for just joe sigh monologues just like during this whole thing like those confessionals on the real world where joe sigh would like just go into a room and the filter would be different he'd be like well like is it normal when none of your guys want to play? But other business works like this. Well, the other thing is, I think I've said this on a pod,

but I know this for a fact, that when they were really pushing, you know, Harden to get traded from Houston to Brooklyn, that KD and Harden FaceTimed him together to try to convince him to do the trade. And KD really vouched for Harden. So you think like, not only did he get seduced by the KD-Kyrie combo,

but then this Harden piece, which just, as it turns out, we'll go into that later, but not as much of a disaster as maybe it could have been if they were paying the Gobert-Durant price for the Harden trade, because they didn't. But man, he's got to be just scratching his head. All right,

we're going to take a break. I have a lot more things to throw you. This year, the only app you need at your Super Bowl party is FanDuel, America's number one sports book. All you have to do is download FanDuel right now. Use promo code BS and you can bet Super Bowl 57 with a no sweat first bet. You'll get up to $3,000 back in bonus bets if your first bet doesn't win. FanDuel lets you bet on everything from the money line to point spreads to who will score a touchdown. Stay tuned for, it'll be either part two, part three, part four, part five today of

our special trade deadline podcast extravaganza,. But I will be doing million-dollar picks. I'll have some parlays for you. We'll have a ton of fun. It will be great. Stay tuned for that. All this on a top-rated sportsbook app that's safe, secure, and super easy to use because I will be using FanDuel bets and FanDuel odds.

Best of all, you can get paid your winnings instantly. So join FanDuel today with promo code BS to claim your no-sweat first bet on Super Bowl 57. Make every moment more with FanDuel, with promo code BS to claim your no sweat first bet on Super Bowl 57. Make every moment more with FanDuel official sportsbook partner in the NFL. Must be 21 plus and president select states first online real money wager only $10 deposit required. Refund issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 14 days. Restrict sportsbook. All right. Let's talk sons and new ownership system because the sons have had a pretty cheap owner the last 20 years. Big shot,

Bob Sarver. Um, one of the more reviled owners we've had, no Donald Sterling, but maybe next, maybe a level two version. But here's the funny thing with Sarver is that before all this stuff about his just day to day behavior was exposed, everybody hated him before this.

Right. He was already top three despised. So, apparently, Ishby, because this team, the transfer happened pretty fast. And he took control of the team pretty close to the trade deadline, which I think was intentional. I think he wanted to come in. I think he felt like they had a window. They're paying a huge tax bill. I mean, this team, I think the tax bill is going to be, it's in the sixties now. It might even be higher if they make a couple more moves,

not to mention the KD and Booker, just those two contracts. Booker signed an extension. He goes through 2028. Their window right now, CP3 is 37. KD is 34. He's under contract for this year and three more. Booker is not a free agent until 2028. And they got Denver to contend with. They got Golden State. They got Memphis. They got Dallas.

The Clippers, I think, are a level below. I think if you're him, you have to do this, even though the price makes me want to throw up. I feel like they gave up just a shitload. I hate giving... They're giving away unprotected picks at the end of this deck. We don't even know what's even...

Are we all going to be alive in 2029? The same thing with that Dallas pick that they gave up in the Kyrie trade. It's like, man, you better really be sure Luka's going to be here six years from now. I think it was all worth it, but I have to ask you, your guy, Chris Paul, it's been a rocky ride. A lot of times maybe you felt like you were close to a title, close to a ring, some disappointments,

and then it felt like it was kind of hitting an end here. The tone in your voice right now. Phoenix was not really a contender anymore. It was going to get weird with Chris. He had like this $15 million option next year. Now he's in the best basketball situation I think he's ever been in. He's got a center who can roll the basket.

He's got the best scoring forward of all time. He's got Booker, who's the best two guard in the league. You have these two crazy options at the end of the games. He's got Booker, who's the best two guard in the league. You have these two crazy options at the end of the games. And then Chris, too. Is this the best situation he's ever been in? Yeah, because even when he was

on those Clippers teams that were good, when they beat that Spurs team in a first round where, like, the Spurs are your first round opponent, if you looked at, like, how bungled the standings were, you know, the Spurs. Do you remember that when he hit,

I'm just trying to bring up game winners in the playoffs with Chris Paul. Yeah, but it was like this down to the last week thing where the seeding was like, well, how is this going to play out? So anyway, it felt like the window was closing.

You're right about the option. It's like $30 million on the books for next year, then the year after that, but they have to pick up the $15 million guaranteed to add to the other $15 million that's an option like June of this year.

So the way it had played this year, he got off to a rocky start. He's missed two long stretches. I thought there were times where I thought he looked old, and then there were other times where I'm like, you know, I feel like it's coming back a little bit because the shooting had been in decline the last couple seasons from deep. That was

kind of alarming. The two-point shot stuff was way down. That's what... For how short of alarming. The two-point shot stuff was way down. For how short he is, the two-point percentage was always super high. It was always in the 550, 580, something like that. This year, it was in the 40s

for a while, but it started to come back. I felt like he had a little something left the last three weeks. That's how I felt. I mean, look, I'll admit, I'm hanging on. I'm watching it, looking for something. And I think I've been very fair about it throughout the season. I was like, man, sometimes he looks a little old to me.

He's getting stuck on some of these traps. A couple of fucking eight-second calls on him, the Toronto game. He had one not that long ago. I'm like, what the hell's going on? And so, look, my biggest issue with the way they built this team was against Milwaukee they didn't add the extra big that could have swung them the title they didn't have enough um they've been really short on depth uh going about Halliburton Halliburton Halliburton Halliburton Halliburton then the Jalen Smith decision it's like Jesus Christ even if you don't like them like pick up

the option you like them enough to pick them and fucking less than two years later you've already decided to move on from them but that that's the son's owner thing though like if vishpe is the owner they're picking up the option that was a cost-cutting move if you're 29 other owners you're picking up the option you know normally you pick up the option to spare yourself the embarrassment of not picking it up like guys guys will pay the guy the third year because they don't feel like opening themselves up to the criticism of already being out on a guy less than two years of actually playing. As the Booker thing, honestly,

with the Booker injury and the Paul vacations because of the health stuff this season, this should actually play into their hands because they've actually been a team that's gone through some playoff battles. As disappointing as last year was, and that's like an all-timer against dallas there's no excuse for it can't fucking happen um and they lose and then obviously in the finals before but you feel like you're adding durant who by the way durant is one of the few stars where you can put him in different basketball

situations and he will thrive without detracting from what everybody else is doing. Okay. Because of what we saw in golden state and them adapting to him and him adapting golden state, it worked a lot of these dudes that can put up huge, huge numbers. You're like, okay, where's the basketball fit with the rant being added to a team that's talented.

I never, ever worry about that. I don't. Yeah. That's a massive obstacle. Yeah. That's his superpower other than just his ability to get two points whenever he wants.

But he can fit into any situation. He can, if you need him to play a little bigger, he can do that. If he just, you want to be like small forward, whatever, he can even play like stretch five.

He gives you so many different options and he's just a good basketball player. I'm with you. I think there's so few guys that could just come in and just immediately fit in with everything. That's why, the Kyrie thing, I was impressed last night. I don't think he'll do that all the time, but there's certain guys who are just operating

at a higher level, which is why Kyrie still seduces these people. Phoenix is tied for the four seed right now, ironically, with Dallas. That could be our round one matchup, which would be pretty amazing. But I think we both thought Phoenix would be in that play. When Booker went out for this. But I think we both thought Phoenix would be like in that play. When Booker went out for this long, I think we both thought, all right, this is going to be,

Cam Johnson's still out. They're going to be in that play-in zone. And Golden State will be the one that rises up. Then Curry gets hurt. Now this flips and they kind of switch bodies. It's like a body switch movie, right? Where Golden State,

Golden State now is the one you have to kind of worry about. And Phoenix is the one that looks like, you know, can they catch Sacramento? They're, they're, they're three back in the loss column, but they have a chance to be a top three seed now. Uh, I don't know that I ever assumed much about the West other than Denver. And then, you know, this Memphis thing is, is still been a little surprising. I know they've had, you know, guys out, but they've got some losses. Like, what the hell's going on with you guys?

And maybe this is just their down stretch. You know, the contenders, usually everybody has like one or two of these. It seems like a young team having some young team growing pain stuff, especially when Adams went out. It just seems like that kind of the mom and dad left and the kids are home, like making pizza in the oven and setting pizza on fire. And it's like, oh, these kind of not totally ready for this yet they also talked a big game which i think is probably not endeared them to the rest of the week they're a little bit of a bullseye on their back i think teams like going against them it's a little added you can see it

in some of these games there's a little fuck you with the other teams with this team yeah i think we got a sense of that in the golden State Series last year. I like Memphis, but after seeing that whole festival where they're just playing whoop that trick, fucking Draymond's going at it and they're putting it on him. And then Ja kind of dabbled into like, what are you talking about?

Social media posts where when he got hurt, we're talking code breaks. And it was all this back and forth. And it's like, man, you guys are carrying yourselves. Like you got some kind of resume here, which, you know, honestly,

if you were going from like a, a sports psychologist thing, I guess we'd all rather have that. Like, I'd rather have you feel like you do belong. You'd rather have the irrational confidence. Right. Right.

Then, then why are we even here? But it was, it was a lot to it. And just from like a basketball observer, I was like, I kind of feel like I wanted to have him get put on him pretty good.

You want to see him get slapped, basically. Who would you have as your most fun playoff series in the West? Do you have any combination for one round? Kyrie, KD, Westbrook in Loge, watching. I still think it's Denver Phoenix because you and I have the same kind of,

I don't totally love watching Luka just kind of do 30 times a game, just dribble slowly as everyone. It's just not for me. I think Denver Phoenix would potentially be orgasmic offensively on both ends. I would want to watch every single possession of that.

Because Phoenix would be so sophisticated offensively. And Denver, I just love watching. So I think that's my favorite. We might get that before the conference finals. That could be like round two. Who knows? I'm not done, though, on the West thing. Because you were saying, hey, doesn't it feel like... If Phoenix was healthy going into the last i don't know 15 games i wouldn't

expect them to be a play-in i mean basically every time you look at the west like i lose track of it after four or five days like if i'm not looking every morning i i may pull it up going all right let me check some stuff and i'm like holy shit wait a minute minnesota's here now oh wait minnesota the lakers are four out of the four seed. Four losses. Look at the Pelicans part of this. Look where Phoenix was when they actually had guys and Paul wasn't even playing that well.

They had a weird stretch. The Nets, to your point earlier, which I thought was one of the funniest Kyrie quotes that was lost in all of it. He's like, I did my job. They were four seed when I left. You're like, what? Anyway, we don't

need to do any more on that but i i love that that kairi kairi's had some doozies he's like he's averaging three doozies a week now where you're just like what he said right right and i don't they made that i don't want that's not a real quote i don't want to derail that from from the rest of the question i guess my my answer that i didn't feel like i was complete on before was just i don't look at the West and assume really anything, other than I thought Golden State, once they had everybody back, that, hey, you're going to look up. They're two good weeks away from being like a three or four seed.

This is going to happen. Sacramento has been the steadiest out of a lot of these teams, which is why everybody kind of looks at them going, wait, are they really going to be a three seed? It's like, yeah, but they're just consistently doing what they need to do. The offense has been incredible. And there's all these sharks circling that can't go in the right direction because of their own health issues.

I mean, Golden State had a chance last night before they blew that lead to Portland to be the three over for the first time all season. And they couldn't do it. Yeah, this is, I mean, we're going to start Sundays at probably the end of the month. And it just feels like every week there's going to be some different, whoa, this team. And we're going to be riding the roller coaster. There's six weeks left this season.

All right. I have a topic. Was this the biggest trade hall of the last 10 years? And I made my rankings and I'm going to give them to you. And you tell me if I'm wrong. I still think Paul George was the most. It is. Because it was SGA and it was a million picks and SGA is so good. In the moment, it wasn't the biggest, but I think it's going to be hard to top that for me. I have Durant second. And I think Davis is third. And

the reason I have Durant second and Davis third is because I just, I like Bridges more than Brandon Ingram. And it's the same amount of like scary picks, but I just think Bridges is a slightly safer bet than Ingram was. And you also had Lonzo and Josh Hart in that trade. I'd have Davis third.

The Gobert trade fourth. Pierce Garnett fifth, because I think people forget that that was the Tatum Brown thing. Nobody should forget. Donovan Mitchell sixth, the first James Harden trade seventh, Westbrook for CP3 and all those picks. I have that eighth. Like kind of a sneaky, crazy amount of picks. There's three first rounders

in that to acquire Russell Westbrook. Darryl's like, that's got to be on his tombstone. The second James Harden trade ninth, and then the Kyrie Boston trade 10th. Those are all just from basically the last, everything's from the last five years, except that Pierce Garnett trade. Did that list sound right to you? Is there anything I'm undervaluing? Where'd you have Gobert? I had Paul George, Durant, Davis, Gobert fourth. Maybe it should be third?

Well, when you talk about the players going out, you know, Ingram, if Ingram's healthy, he's better than Bridges. But I'd agree with you. Yeah, but there's real stuff floating around about Ingram now. About what's going on with his lower body. Just in general, I don't know if people love the direction, health-wise, that he's going. I still don't know what's going on with his feet.

I don't know what you've heard about that. But Bridges is just good. Bridges isn't a top 20 guy, but he's definitely a top 35 or 40 guy in the league. And he's young and he's been in big games. I don't know. I think Bridges is... I like him.

Every team should want him. I think despite the shooting numbers and everything kind of going up just from a production standpoint because there's more opportunities, which is funny because you look at some of these numbers like Josh Hart and his trade. And you're like, man, he lit it up for Portland last year. And they're like, that's when they had the all Google team. Like you go, who are these guys?

And it was simply opportunity, which happens a lot. There could be these weird stretches from me. Now, at the end of the season, you're going to see some of your players. You'd be like, holy shit, Malik Beasley went for 20 a game at one point. And you're like, okay, but look at the situation that he was in. So when I look at Bridges, I think it was both like a real bump in opportunity, but also a bit of an exposure on like, you know, there's a cap on what number guy he can be for you. And it's probably no higher than three, which is all to say, I still really like him.

He's young. The contract isn't even remotely bad. If OG Ananobi has multiple teams offering up a rotation player and two unprotected first, then Bridges should be worth more than that because OG, despite, I think we all kind of like Ananobi,

but damn, I mean, the market for a guy that doesn't play enough consistently and you still get him confused. Maybe it's just because of the Raptors roster. Like it's just length all over the place and you still get him confused. Maybe it's just because the Raptors roster, like it's just length all over the place and guys that look interchangeable.

So I, you know, I'm not going to split hairs with you on that saying, oh, well, it has to be Ingram a little bit higher. I just think the Gobert one's probably, I mean, the good, So you'd have the Gobert one higher.

Okay. Well, here's why I brought this up. I still hate the first James Harden trade and the Houston fans who I think have given both of us shit for a while and both of us were like we don't feel like they got enough and the Houston fans were like oh how do you like this now

it's like well basically you end up with two swaps and three unprotected first for a guy who's one of the 35 best players in the history of the league who was still considered to be in his prime, even though he's a little out of shape. They never got that extra piece.

And then you see some of these other trades and it's like, you know, Phoenix just paid way more for Durant than I think the Nets paid for Harden. I think that the Paul George, David, I just don't think it's in the same class personally. Yeah. It's three firsts and two swaps is the trade.

Everything else is gone. No, I mean, it's kind of like to the point that we make is I'd like if I'm going to trade one of these kind of iconic guys of his era with still some tread left on that tire. You made a face as you said that. You're like, yeah, Connick has Mazera,

and your face looks like curling out of the left side of your mouth. I don't know. They should have a ref introduce him when he goes into the Hall of Fame. Be like, yeah, we bumped up his production 30%. A lot of people weren't able to figure it out. The Rosillo guy was on it pretty early, but at that point, it was too late. Presented James Harden and Scott Foster. Teams kept saying,

I'm not really doing anything. He's grabbing my arm and chucking me. We were like, that's just the price you pay. What the fuck does that mean? Anyway, this is something we've already talked about before. I'm not super interested in debating Houston fans about it anymore.

Whatever. It's't know. Whatever. But it's just kind of nice to get the one thing that you plug into your rotation. You feel like, hey, at least we have... It's great to get all the picks. Is there one thing that I know that is real? And in this case of the Nets, they have Bridges. And Cam Johnson is real. Cam Johnson is a hell of a player. I like those two.

Yeah. By the way, the New Look Nets, Johnson was a hell of a player. I like those two. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you're never going to get the new look. Nets, Bridges, Cam Johnson, Cam Thomas, Seth Curry. Like all four of those guys. I like Claxton. Finney Smith, Claxton. Now there's six guys I like. Dinwiddie, he's fine.

Then you go into that Simmons, Harris, O'Neal, Crowder, Watanabe group. I mean, Simmons is the turd in the punch bowl because if he was actually good, you could kind of talk yourself into this being like a frisky eight seed. The East is so good. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Windhorse had said

there's not much trade value there. I guess it's just back to the point. The Clippers thing with SGA, that was an insane like, oh, and by the way, you get this. With Gobert, Vanderbilt, whatever, I really like him. Nice rotational player. Maybe it's the Walker Kessler

and he becomes a center. I think it's Walker Kessler is the one. Yeah, that's pretty nice. I'm just kind of going back to where some of these, you look back and you're like, was there anyone that you actually got that could plug in right away? And look, for Houston, the Tari Eason thing looks real.

So that's the Houston argument against it being like, hey, we got that first that year, so you guys shut the fuck up. Because Tari Eason, the evaluation on him, you're like, okay, how much of this is going to work? Because I felt like he was, oddly enough, I couldn't believe some of the shit calls he got at LSU. I'd be like, man. And it's not about that. It's about his energy. And as soon as Tari E some of the shit calls he got at lsu like man what and it's not about that it's about his energy and as soon as tari eason takes the floor he impacts the game in like a bunch of awesome ways so yeah i agree that's that's the rockets argument against it really this becomes just semantics of was there a known piece in all of these deals and if i'm going to trade one of these guys i'd like to be able to pull that off. And the Nets did it with two. So there you go.

It's so funny. I think 20 years ago, the Lakers needed to trade Shaq, right? And they ended up trading him for, what'd they get? Lamar Odom, Brian Grant's contract, Karan Butler, something else. There might've been a pick in there. And now 20 years later, that, that pick is like they're trading Shaq for first for unprotected first,

uh, one swap, Karan Butler, like that Miami would have had to basically got their entire team to get Shaq. That's just what's happened with superstars over the last, uh, really the last 10 years.

But when you think back to the twenties, like the Stefan Marbury trade 20 years ago, right? That was like, it was, it was, it was, I think two firsts and maybe Antonio McDyess was in that, but that was like, whoa, they gave up a shitload for Marbury. And it's like, that's 30% of what's happened now. Let's take one more break. I have a couple more things to throw you. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals,

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So we talked about Brooklyn. Four years later, when they had all that cap space, everybody was all excited. They had that kind of fun team with Russell and Levert and all those guys. And then they went all in on KD and Kyrie. And four years later, they're basically in the same spot, right? They're not a contender. They probably have the same amount of picks, even though the picks are all from different teams instead of their own team.

They have 2023. They have Phoenix's first and their first. They don't have anything in 24. 25, they have a Phoenix first. They have to swap picks with Houston. 27, they have Phoenix's first and their first. They don't have anything in 24. 25, they have a Phoenix first. They have to swap picks with Houston. 27, they have a Phoenix first. They have to swap picks with Houston. They have a top eight Philly first.

28, they have a Phoenix swap. 29, they have Dallas's first and their own first. Basically, they traded for the last four years. They traded their 20, 22, 24, and 26 Brooklyn first and Philly's 23rd first, Jared Allen, Karis Overt, and D'Angelo Russell to basically go sideways with this weird team they have now with Ben Simmons and Bridges and Cam Johnson, all that stuff. I can't remember a team being in the mix more that did less. It's four straight years of talking about them. What happens to the new look Nets

fans, Rosillo? What do you do with your BKN hoodie? What happens to those guys? This is exactly what's going to happen. Remember when it was like Kenny Atkinson, Sean Marks, and they put together

this plucky, competitive 40-something win team, and then Ky, and they put together this plucky, competitive, like 40-something win team. And then Kyrie and Durant talked about the culture that was established, and that's why they went there when it was like, no, they didn't. They went there because it's – And then they destroyed the culture. Right, right. Six Buds. Right.

They went there because it's one of the cool destinations, and the Knicks couldn't get that done, as close as it sounds like that may have actually been happening with Katie and Kyrie. Talk about the all-time Jose Contreras lesson of be careful what you wish for. The number of times, whether it's in sports or in life, where you want this thing so fucking bad,

and the best thing that could ever happen is that you don't get it. Not saying the Knicks have had this incredible run here, but imagine if this were the knicks dealing with this stuff like as bad as it was with brooklyn and the daily topic that it was if it were the knicks i mean times it by whatever so when it started going bad and you're right those guys immediately destroyed the culture they pretended was a factor in them signing there in the first place which nets fans and sometimes even the media would like argue being like no no it really was the culture. Like, shut the fuck up. Okay.

Nothing to do with it. Then it was like, man, I kind of missed that plucky team. You're like, no, no, you miss it now because it's been a disaster. So I think there'll be this weird, like, emotional revitalization of like, I like it. We're off the radar. We're the underdogs. You can root for these guys.

And then when they can't beat anybody in the playoffs, you're going to be going, hey, let's start bringing in some stars again. Right? Well, we wanted Simmons to be in a more quiet situation. Here it is. They're the number two team in New York and nobody's going to care about them anymore and he can kind

of do his thing. I don't mind. As you know, I love Seth Curry. Cam Johnson, I don't know what the fuck happened to him in the last week, but mind. As you know, I love Seth Curry. Cam Johnson, I don't know what the fuck happened to him in the last week, but it was... If you're trying to replace Kyrie's offense, he was able to do it for three games. Are you talking Cam Thomas?

Cam Thomas, I mean. Sorry. I just did the Eddie Andelman. I took the guy's first name. We're in that range. So, I have to ask you, will any big market franchise, you feel like this will happen again?

That this will not be a cautionary tale to these owners between what happened in LA with the Lakers and what happened in Brooklyn here with KD and Kyrie? Will this keep happening? Where franchises are like, we want this guy so badly. We're basically going to turn over our franchise here.

We're going to trust these two outsiders to come in. We're going to give everything to them and let them do their thing. And you think like Harden and Houston, same thing, where he's like, I don't like Chris Paul anymore. Can you trade all of our picks to get Westbrook? I don't really like Westbrook anymore. Can you trade me? Do we feel like we're now moving into a different era

where this stuff won't happen anymore? Or do you think this is just the new NBA that will keep happening over and over again? It's going to keep happening all the time because you can't win unless you start playing 11-on-11. You can't win unless you have one of these guys. So you do everything you can to get them. And there's an argument to be made as much as I still don't know

what kind of tax like what the fuck tax is coming down the road for some of these teams that just hand out all these unprotected picks i think the argument can be made in the past like you couldn't even do this back then so now if you decide okay donovan mitchell wants out of here like what kind of hall can we get like all right there's there's a path with multiple organizations if you're willing to hand us three or four of these unprotected and then swap a little bit later on, maybe one of the salary fillers is a nice rotational guy that can develop into something.

This is great that we actually have this opportunity to do some of this stuff. Do you think this is a cautionary tale that somehow the league will pivot from? Because I think we've already learned that they're not going to pivot from it. But the Kyrie market by itself proved that the teams are going to do whatever they can to hopefully get one of these special players. The new CBA, which they're working on.

So you think like what they did with some of the different CBAs over the years, right? We just got a where Jay Crowder going to the Bucsnew that was going to happen for like 700 second round picks. The new CBA, you think like in the what was it? The early 2000s. The big thing they wanted to change was these contracts are too long. These teams are signing these guys. Yeah, six years,

seven years, and two years in, there was so much buyer's remorse. They had to create the amnesty clause. They literally had to create this fake rule out of nowhere to give teams a second chance at getting out of some of the bad deals they gave. So as we headed into the end of the 2000s and then the lockout in 2011,

and it's like, we need shorter contracts. We got to save ourselves from ourselves. Let's go shorter. I think the shorter contracts have led to just complete mayhem, where these guys, they can always become a free agent down the road. And it's just these teams aren't eggshells. I think it's fun for us. It's fun for... I think when we started doing podcasts in 2018, how many emergency pods, how many giant trades have we done? How many like, oh, I wonder if this will happen. It's way more fun for that. But when you're just talking about

what it's like for fans, what it's like to be loyal to the same franchise, what are we trying to build as a league? Are we building relationships with just fans and players or fans and teams? Where does this go? I don't really know. And I don't know if there's an answer to that. But I do think with the next CBA, maybe the contracts are longer would be a fix. Maybe it's like you can give out five years to somebody else's free agent. Maybe it's six years to your own free agent. And maybe that's one of the tweaks where you can lock down somebody for a tiny bit longer and maybe they won't want to leave as much. I don't know.

It's the only thing I can think of. Yeah, because the way it used to work, if it was your guy, you could go seven years. And then the salary raises were like 2.5% per year. So over seven years, that really added up. And then the new team could go max six years. And I think the raise increases were like a percentage and a half, maybe. Well, remember the Antoine deal?

Antoine played three years, and then they had to give him basically six years for 100 or six years for 80, whatever it was. It was like, oh, my God, the guy's 21. But that's the other thing, too, is that you were just giving this seven-year max to your best player. So there wasn't even a tier to it, which is a little, you know, that's not that different than what we have now. But they added the rookie scale. So now it's a little bit later in the guy's career, maybe before they get the big contract.

And I also think social media and the way people follow the league now, it's so much harder to just be like, I got paid. I don't give a shit anymore. Nobody can really do that anymore. I can't think of three examples of somebody just be like, like, like stars. I got paid. I'm now checking out. Can you have anybody in the last 10 years?

Yeah. Westbrook, when he picked up his player option for 47 million and then posted a video on his car singing, you can't break my soul. And then wonders why people were pissed at him. But Westbrook, Westbrook was trying. It's just, you didn't want him to try. You wanted him to sit on the bench. That was the problem.

It wasn't like he didn't care. He just thought he was the best guy on the team. Yeah. He was amazing. The scoring record game, the more I'm thinking about it, he took 19 shots in that game. Did you see that? LeBron had 20 shots.

Westbrook had 19. Clear out, LeBron. I know it's your night. I was praying for that game to be tied close and LeBron was a point off the record and it would be like shot clock off and Westbrook just waves off the screen. I wanted it so bad.

I would have made shirts and donate all the profits to charity. So would you make contracts a little longer? What would you do? I'm going to give you a long answer and I know you hate that, but there's a very great lesson in this that I keep trying to tell people about this all the time. One of my favorite examples of why people just constantly want to fix shit all the time is that you have NBA free agency after the draft.

In the NFL, you have the draft before free agency. I've heard arguments from both leagues saying it should be the other way around, hoping to have the opposite of what they have. And when you hear the argument, you're like, oh, that's a pretty good argument. Except that if it were the other way around, you would then go 10 years and argue it the other way. Before we had a lottery system in place, right? With the Houston Rockets, it was very simple. How does the draft order go? Who lost the most games? They pick first. And then we were worried about tanking for what? Hakeem going back to the early 80s. Ralph Sampson. Ralph Sampson. And so there was this whole thing with Houston Rockets. I remember reading the Sports Illustrated when I was a little kid.

And I was like, what goes on? How does this work? It's like, hey, we're going to have a lottery. It's like, okay, that makes a ton of sense. And then the lottery hangs out for a couple of years. And you're like, wait, no, we need to have a weighted lottery because this still doesn't really solve the problem. And like, this is unfair.

You're like, okay, cool. And like, now we have a weighted lottery, but guess what? The weighted lottery is not rewarding the team enough. Like, that's right. So let's change it again. Oh, wait, now the weighted lottery is emphasizing losing too much. So now we need to flatten it again.

And now we're in a flattening phase where the odds don't heavily favor teams that lost the most games the way they did before to supposedly solve the tanking. Right. And then they added the plan. But then what will happen is they're going to say, man, the worst teams aren't getting good enough

of a shot at the best player. So we need to change. The point is, is that the same thing with the contracts where the owners got what they deserved on this one. They didn't want the seven-year maxes. They didn't want the six-year free agent maxes. They worked at where it's basically like four years the way they do these extensions.

So it's like, cool, you're out of the books for a long time, but now you've opened up all this freedom of movement. Now, not to say that there couldn't be a player who would sign a seven-year max under the old rules that would ask for a trade with six years left on his contract. That would happen. We had Simmons ask for it before the contract extension even kicked in. We had Durant who picked up the four-year extension,

then deciding, hey, I want out before it even starts. So that target of it having to be a year left or a year and a half left, like Anthony Davis, all of that has evolved where nobody really gives a fuck anymore. But what I would say is, sure, Bill, make them longer. But as soon as they're longer, then somebody else is going to say they're too fucking long again, just like everything else that we're in a hurry to change all the time. And that's why I spend my time on other fucking things. That's why I spend my time on other things. Because I go, as soon as you'll have it this way in three years,

you're going to want to fucking change it again. So go ahead, do whatever you want. I'm not interested in trying to solve it with you because some of this stuff is unsolvable for everybody involved. I also think the NBA probably likes it more this way. Deep down. I mean, think about it. It's Super Bowl week.

Do you think the owners do? It's Super Bowl week. If people are talking NBA on a Thursday, they've been talking about NBA all week, you know? And I don't think the owners like it more, but I think in general, I think they think this is better to have people talking more often about the week.

I don't know if I agree. I just don't know if you can eat off of this stuff. We spend a lot of time of like, oh, look how many impressions and look what happened here or whatever. It's like, cool, we trended for two days before the Super Bowl. I'd like my star to be here longer. You know what I mean? Or I'd like to also not have a seven-year deal for...

Cam Thomas. Cam Thomas of seven years, $120 million. He's seen 44 points in three games in a row. That's why the franchise tag in the NFL is the most important thing that doesn't get talked about enough. Because that mechanism exists, it suppresses real free agency.

And it's brilliant. Fans were like, wait, if my team has an awesome player who's probably my favorite player and you can't really leave and they just tag them and then whatever that's fucking awesome and when you're a fan like this is great and you get older and you're like that's and you know i've heard people say like oh the franchise tag is actually only used this many times it's like that's not the point it's not how many times it's used it's that it exists as a mechanism so whenever i hear for the NBA... It pushes people to actually figure it out with the team

they're on versus just... You have to. I'm leaving. I'm out. Right. Like Lamar Jackson's a good example. If Lamar Jackson was an NBA player, he'd be getting traded this summer. That would be it. Right. So I would never root for any mechanism that prevents the players from actually experiencing true free agency. I mean, I just philosophically, I don't believe in any of that stuff. Yeah. I mean, you know,

you and I can go on rants on certain players. It's like, come on, man, like seriously, you're going to fucking do this. Uh, but it doesn't mean that I would ever side with ownership on having more

control. The owners got, but you know, they wanted shorter contracts. Okay, cool. Look what happened. And there's also just kind of right the chaos the generational sensibility

of this too where you know there was little apprehension remember kevin garnett he wanted out of minnesota forever didn't want to be the bad guy didn't want to leave you know like he probably stayed there how much three extra years three yeah i mean you know pierce pierce had that rocky road in the 04 to 06 range where it felt like he was going to get traded every week. And those guys just didn't do it because nobody else was really doing it. And then LeBron, all he did was leave as a free agent. Right? He never got traded. It's all he did was leave as a free agent.

And if you think about the reaction to what he did over a decade ago, and then that kind of morphed pretty quickly into the mellow thing, going the different path and demanding out. I mean, the more people do something, the more acceptable it is, the more desensitized we become to the whole thing. But I would never want anything that would limit a player's, you know, ability to move on. It just doesn't mean I like every time a guy asks out. I would do two things, two small tweaks. I would actually raise it by a year so I could sign somebody else's free agent for five years, not four. And I could sign my own free agent for six. I also would get rid of the rule with all this fucking stupid, you can't trade a first consecutive years. I would just get rid of all that. If Phoenix wanted to trade six first rounds in a row for Kevin Durant,

let him do it. This isn't 1982 anymore. The reason they came up with that rule was because of the Cleveland Cavaliers owner, Ted Stepien, who was an absolute, I mean, by far the worst owner in the history of the league. Like just was trading first round picks for like Don Ford and people that were like 11th band. It would be like the equivalent if you had a team now that was like, I've traded my unprotected first next year for Peyton Pritchard. Like, what? And then it's the second pick of the draft.

So they put that rule in. It was 40 years ago. I just think you should be able to trade as many picks as you want. If you want to trade your 2038 first round pick, go ahead. I don't know why they have that in. Well, to protect themselves from themselves. That's why you can't just trade it first like i would love if you could just say you know this happens maybe like a jared

vanderbilt type thing where your team you already like your rotation you don't have a salary necessarily that's low enough to match up to him and you go can i just trade you you know a top five protected for vanderbilt next year that's another another thing. It should be 50% of the salary should be the trade, not like 80% or whatever. It should just be easier to trade guys. I would like that, but it's all set up to protect. They got so freaked out, I think, with Portland and the Trailblazers there, that team in the late 90s,

early 2000s, it felt like they went 12 deep. You go back and look at that and you're like, God, they were everybody on that team. They were just grabbing. I think it's almost like having a credit card max. I can afford a higher credit line, but this is probably the smarter thing for you to do. And I also think if you waive the trade restrictions, which I agree with you, I'd be okay with it. But in a way, it would just change all the pricing.

Durant would probably be six straight picks. I'm into it let's fucking do it last thing because we're going to go because we have more parts to do today I think the Knicks were the other team in this KD thing it's unclear to me whether they were an actual

real pursuer or I know the Knicks were the other team in this thing it's unclear to me if they were a real pursuer or if they were trying to jack up the price for KD with the Suns, kind of hoping maybe Booker down the road. I think the Booker-Knicks thing, just way down the road.

He's not a free agent until 2028, but if this turns into a situation where they had their run for three years and then it's a rebuild and Devin Booker's like, all right, well, we had our run for three years and then it's a rebuild and Devin Booker's like, all right, well, we had our run, we won a title, whatever. Um, I do think the Knicks, like what would KD have done for them? Would he have made them, you know, a real contender? I don't know. But I think if Barrett Toppin and some other stuff and four firsts in a swap,

like they could have matched what the Suns gave. I just don't know if it was the right idea because I don't think they're closer to a title. And I think it would have been weird to watch him, I don't know, him, Randall and Brunson, maybe. I don't know. I just don't, I don't feel as good about it as I did with the Suns, but I do think the Knicks were involved. Randall Durant is the worst than, than Aiton Durant slash Booker or whatever. I mean, you know, basketball fit, it just makes a ton of sense. But back to the original point, like we both agreed on, as you said, and you said it well, his superpowers,

he's the star that comes in and adapts. He doesn't overlap in a bad way. He overlaps in a productive way as a basketball player. It's just Randall's tough to play with. Randall is a little tough to play with. Even like Brunson's been incredible for them. And I'm happy to see Randall kind of back to the guy two years ago instead of the dude that's fighting with his home crowd all last season like that got really fucking weird last year so you know just to see them competitive

and you know they're better the rj things i think still kind of weird you know i don't know i spent probably way too much time talking about fourth quarter rotations with him the other day but i i i think it gets a little stagnant you you know, and it could turn into Durant watching those two other guys. I also wonder how much they were motivated to maybe try to answer for not going for Mitchell, which clearly the way they use Barrett now in the fourth quarter speaks to like, you know, and they could have done the Barrett thing.

I know the contract thing, people made it out to be a little more challenging. I still think they could have gone ahead and done it, but they were kind of like split on, well, we don't want to use these assets because we're going to need that for the next person that we put with this. It's like, get the first person first. So, you know, I don't know if that would have been part of the motivation, but you make a really good Booker point that I, you know, Suns fans got really upset when we brought this up years ago about like trying to predict the next upset star. You know, Chris paul for i know i was like what the hell we're the favorites of the title why are you talking about this but we're not it needs to be discussed we're not but we are in that you know i get it nobody wants to give chris paul credit any for anything and after the dallas series i get it guy covid whatever um he did chris paul fixed where this organization was going. Okay. He did. He did. He fucking fixed it.

And I don't know where it was going before he got there, but it wasn't good. All right. And so as dicey as the Paul thing was getting Bill, I think this delays like how weird could the Phoenix thing get. Now, Booker's probably good enough. He's so good. Yeah, but you got KD34 with a bunch of surgeries at this point, right?

And a bunch of miles and a bunch of minutes. And you could tell me he's going to be five more years at this level. You could tell me it might be two. I don't know. Anything after the next two years would be an unexpected pleasant bonus

if he's still at this level. But I think that's the accurate way. We both get this actually could totally suck for Phoenix. Durant gets hurt every year. We'll see what happens. Paul hasn't been healthy.

You've got this Booker thing that's now twice where he's missed time. But Aiton they've been complaining about for two years. Yeah, who by the way this week decides I'm sick of the haters. You're like, feel free to play this hard all the about for two years. Yeah. Who, by the way, this week decides, you know, I'm sick of a haters.

You're like, feel free to play this hard all the time then, man. Yeah. Just protect her, protect the rim and roll to the basket and get some rebounds. You know, I,

I don't know, you know, I don't know that he's ever going to have the makeup and an approach to the game that you'd hope, but he's still pretty good. Yeah. Whatever it is, like the window that seemed closed last week is open for another two years

and that's what the bet was right yeah I just think the Knicks now are in pole position for the next big trade with somebody

and the Nets maybe if you're talking about big market teams with some urgency and a bunch of picks I think the Knicks and the Nets

are the two teams now and as we head to the summer who the fuck knows who's going to be the next unhappy guy you just think like weicks and the Nets are the two teams now. And as we head to the summer, who the fuck knows who's going to be the next unhappy guy. You just think like we've had the Nets, one, two, three big trades by the Nets in what? A year? And then we've had, like, could you tell me,

Davis is just going to be like, I've had it. I don't want to play with LeBron anymore. I'm out in four months. Like that sounds realistic to me. I watched him mope around on Tuesday night. I don't know what the fuck was going on with them. So could Carl Towns be like, this sucks.

Get me out of Minnesota. Like on down the line, I think the Knicks, everything they're doing to me seems like there's a move kind of now brewing for them. And they, and I don't know, they, the Mitchell move kind of now brewing for them. And I don't know. The Mitchell trade would have been good for them, but I think ultimately

wasn't going to win them the title this year. And there might be another good guy coming. So I don't know. I would just keep an eye on the Booker thing because the Kentucky ties and Wes and Leon, all that stuff. It has to be taken seriously. In the gossipy, let's just talk it out loud thing

before Durant, yeah, all right. What would happen? They don't pick up Paul's option. I still think if you already got to pay him 15, you might as well pay him the other 15. They're going to pick that up. Now, definitely picking it up next year, right? The worst case is they're expiring.

I wrote this in the trade by a calm. I actually, I had Booker Knight as the most untradeable guy because I just feel like he's Mr. Arizona. You know, he's the guy, especially if you look at how bad the other teams are. But now Durant, Durant's a bigger star than Booker is. We are at the one hour, four minute mark of taping.

So we're going to go. We're going to come back. Potentially, we could be coming back in like two hours or the worst case scenario, we'll come back after the deadline. We never talked about

the Russell Lakers trade. I cannot wait for your thoughts on that. I'm sure there'll be some other stuff, but we will be back at least once more today with a much bigger podcast. But we had to get this Durant stuff out first. Priscilla, thank you.

Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Kyle Creighton as well. And we will see you in a couple hours. I don't have On the wayside