The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: An Epic Celtics Win, Kyrie the Perfect Villain, and Maxey’s Big Leap with Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: April 18, 2022

In Part 1 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Jayson Tatum’s buzzer-beater in the Celtics' Game 1 win over the Nets, Kyrie Irving’s 39-point performance, speculation on the rest of the series, the 76ers' Game 1 victory over the Raptors, Tyrese Maxey, other Round 1 observations, and more. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Stay tuned. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, taping this. It is 7-11 Eastern time. Just walked back from the Celtics-Nets game one, which was one of the best basketball playoff games I've been to since I was an adult. Gotta say, it was way up there. The crowd, I had never seen a buzzer beater

in person like that, Rosillo. And after the game, we were like, pretty sure that's happened before, but when, none of us could remember. And then it came out afterwards. There's been like 386 home Celtics playoff games in the history of the franchise. And somehow there's never been a buzzer beater, ever.

It's the first one. Wow. All right alright so look I gotta lay out here at the beginning you're in there you're in the building take us through it all

because that was an all-timer especially for an opening first round felt like a finals game felt like a game 5 finals game where just the physicality

the intensity some of the lineup stuff there was I don't remember in the first quarter they're going offense defense in the last, some of the lineup stuff. I don't remember in the first quarter. They're going offense-defense in the last 20 seconds of the first quarter. Guys are getting shuttled in and out. It just started to take that feel.

Celtics go up, I think, 84-69. And man, when you're in the room and it's Durant and Kyrie and you're just so terrified one of them's going to get going, you feel like you're going to play the odds. One of these guys are going to get going. And today it was Kyrie, and you're just so terrified one of them's going to get going. You feel like, I'm going to play the odds. One of these guys are going to get going. And today it was Kyrie. But, you know, their Celts are down three. They come out of a timeout, like 45 seconds left.

And they run a play to attack Bruce Brown with Jalen, and he gets a layup. And then they played one of the best defensive possessions they've ever played during the Tatum-Brown era, where they're swarming Kyrie multiple times. He has no times. He has no outs. He finally throws it to, to rant who takes the three. And then Tatum somehow gets there with the, with the contest, but doesn't foul him, which I thought for sure he was going to foul him. He did it. And that was right in front of me. And then they don't call timeout, which, you know, I love Derek White throws down a Brown, Brown somehow figures out, goes to smart. And

you're like, there's that split second. You're like, oh my God, he's going to jack up this terrible three with two guys on him. And then it was all of a sudden Tatum spinning and we won. And I got to say, I was there for the 2004 ALCS game four, game five. It was that kind of craziness. It was like roof coming off. It wasn't on the level of like birds stealing the ball from Isaiah or anything like that. But for a modern Celtics moment, it was unbelievable. It was pure

pandemonium. People are hugging, high-fiving. And it really felt like with about eight minutes left, whoever won that game, it was going to be an amazing win. And whoever lost that game, it was going to be a devastating loss. So that's how we felt walking out. People are outside after for like an hour. Remember that? You were there for the 2002, the Nets comeback. Yeah.

When it was just same kind of pandemonium. And then afterwards, people just stayed. And I think people are just down there now. But I guess my question for you is, did that game change how you felt the series was going to go? Was there a moment where you're like, all right, is this going to be one of these rare game ones like Sun Spurs 2008,

where it's like, whoever wins this is really going to truly be in the driver's seat, or are we just going seven? Yeah, I think it's just going seven. I really do. And I've always felt like my big playoff theory is that all playoff games are connected. So when somebody will want to say, well, if this game had gone this way, then who knows? I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I feel like the previous result now impacts what this means. Because Brooklyn, there's a bunch of different ways you can look at this game.

And I felt like the Celtics were in trouble even when they were up because I didn't love their half-court offense. Got super slow, right? Yeah. Once they slowed down, the game changed. And they did a great job with durant that's probably one of the that'll be on the lower side of durant output games but then that's countered by the fact that kairi has like a hall of fame performance today because he was just stupid so yeah i i think there are probably 10 if not more different angles you

can kind of throw at this game going well if this or but i i honestly thought the celtics were in trouble because of the durant part of it you and i were texting you felt like the celtics actually weren't because you felt like they were missing easy shots but like the weird part of their energy they were forcing all these turnovers there was 18 fouls called in the first quarter by the way which is the most fouls called in the first quarter of any nba game season uh nba game this season yeah i was so impressed by how active the celtics were with their hands like reaching and challenging passes challenging guys that held on to the basketball at all it almost reminded me of

like playing somebody in a basketball video game that didn't know what the pass button was and you just go up to them and like slap yeah yeah. Yeah. So even though they, it looked like, oh, wow, look at this Celtics defense. This is incredible. And all these different things were happening. Their, their half court just didn't look all that good. So when the nets were up late, I'm going, you know, this is, it felt like it was starting to become Kyrie's night. Yeah. I'll tell you that it's like big picture, like parachuting over the playoffs. Those are two of the best four teams. I think it's those two. I think it's Milwaukee and I think it's Phoenix.

I don't know if Golden State, when you're just talking about the level of intensity, physicality, some of the shot making, I just think there's only four teams that could have been at the level of that game I just went to because what they were doing with Durant, I was texting you about it. Their whole game plan

was like a Bill Belichick game plan. They were just like, we're hitting this guy. A lot of it doing with the rant. I was texting you about it. Their whole game plan. It was like a Bill Belichick game plan. They were just like, we're hitting this guy or a lot of it was off the ball. And I'm sorry, KD. Um, they were just looking at Katie. Like we're just hitting him wherever he goes.

If he's on defense, we're going to run him through picks where he, where he gets hard screens. If he's on offense, we're going to be pushing him, shoving him. And it was like, he was just getting chipped.

It was like watching. Remember that Belichick, Marshall Falk, the game them. And it was like he was just getting chipped. It was like watching, remember that Belichick, Marshall Falk, the game player where they're just like every play we're hitting you? And they were trying to wear him down. Then Tatum was going at him and they were trying to take advantage of, if you're going to play Durant 44 minutes, this is not the game for you. But then when he would come out,

the Nets played better because it just became the Kyrie show. And once he got hot, that was that. So then it just became, all right, they have two guys. We kind of only have one guy. And it was the stuff we've talked about, what, for the last six weeks? Who's the second guy? Who's it going to be?

Jalen, I thought, did some good stuff. And it was at least going to the basket. But when you're in a gunfight with those two, it's tough. It's like, pick your poison. Today, it was at least going to the basket but you know when you're in a gunfight with those two it's tough it's like pick your poison today it was Kyrie yeah Jalen came around because he did that's that's a lot of like it's like the Utah Dallas game okay you're going to load up on Mitchell and everything is going to be focused on Mitchell to start a game and teams always seem to be super locked into whatever their game plan is immediately and that meant Bogdanovich was going to go off and Bogdanovich carried that Utah offense

in the first half. I think he had 20. And that's why there are going to be moments here with Jalen Brown where you're like, all right, you're going to have to kind of carry the offense a little bit because it's pretty... I mean, most of these teams now are selling out

to stop the main guy that they're super worried about. But the Durant part of it... Well, and then they were posting... They were posting him up at the free throw line, Tatum. And the Nets were just charging them with two guys. You're not scoring from here. No, there's going to be you know, even

though Grant hits a lot of shots and Horford can stretch the floor and even Tice, like all of their bigs that you want to go at or maybe help off of, they still they kind of keep you honest, which is another part of this offense, but they had a play in the second half with Durant where he caught it on the, he kind of keep you honest, which is another nice part of this offense. But they had a play in the second half with Durant where he caught it on the – he kind of was coming off of a screen handoff from the right elbow to the left elbow,

and he just got it up in a rhythm. And I go, you know, they're going to need a little bit more of that. They're going to need a little bit more of that because just as great as Durant is to say, hey, ISO, well, the Celtics are the best isolation defensive team in the NBA this year. And their bigs are not really the bigs that you can attack like other teams. Horford, Grant, and Tice are all in the top six of defensive bigs against perimeter isolation plays. It was the synergy number that was out there. So that's kind of what these guys are built for.

Not saying Durant's probably getting 45 in one of these games. and it'll look like none of these guys have a chance with him, but at least the Celtics are built in a way where you may have to get even a little bit more creative, especially, I mean, it sounds nuts that you'd have to help Durant at any point, but I just saw little things in there where you're like, oh, there'll be some tweaks here in game two where they go, let's make it a little easier on him in some of these isolation things. Well, you know, we saw in the first half when they went with the three guards, Durant and Claxton. Basically, as soon as Drummond was out of the game

and they were able to make it with the Celtics where, all right, if you're going to bring out guards, we're happy to go toe-to-toe with you if you're going to play White and Pritchard together. And if you're going to play the bigs, we have more speed than you. So we were talking at halftime, and I remember saying to my dad, like, we got to score with this Drummond lineup these first four or five minutes

because I feel like once we get halfway through the third quarter, that'll be it. They're going to go with that small lineup and then we're going to have to really decide from a matchup standpoint. So he brought it out soon. The Celtics take that lead.

Drummond, I think, for the game was minus 13. I mean, he only played 17 minutes. The smaller lineup is what the Celtics are going to have to figure out as the series went along. And I felt like they figured it out a little bit during the game, but the Nets wanted to slow it down. Once it slowed down, now it's half court. All their guys are running around. Horford's not going to post anybody up, right? So they kind of Jedi kind of Jedi mind trick the Celts a little bit. And I feel like in the, in game two, the Celts will have some sort of adjustment, but on the flip side, the Nets will have adjustments

too for Durant. They couldn't figure out between Drogage, Curry, Brown, and Mills, which three guys they wanted out there. So Nash was like hockey shuttling dudes around, but it gave this game like this disjointed rhythm. You mentioned all the fouls, there was turnovers, but everybody was playing so freaking hard. And I did feel like if the Nets won that game, I would have had a tough time thinking the Celtics were going to bounce back from that. Losing home court right away, Kyrie,

and then knowing Durant, like you basically lost the game where Durant wasn't very good. That would have been tough. On the flip side with the Nets, now it's a seven-game series where they've got to win five games. Right?

So you think about that and man, it's... I don't know how this goes. I really don't. I know that the role guys in the Celtics will not be that bad at home again. Williams, Tice, Derek White until the last four minutes. Pritchard didn't

really do much, but you would have thought one of those guys, I just think they're encouraging me for the Celts the first three quarters. How many open shots did they have? How many layups? They were getting every shot they wanted and I actually thought they should have had a bigger lead at the end of the third. I don't know. If you're coming out of that game,

if you're the Nets, what do you say? That we have six guys that can play in the series, basically? Hey, it's at their place. Game one, they wanted a last-second shot, and Durant wasn't great. But I guess you could counter that by saying, well, Kyrie went nuclear.

And so are you going to get that same effort out of Kyrie? I mean, whatever it is with the crowd stuff with Kyrie, I mean, we should spend a little bit of time on this because it was part of the story so Kyrie

is you know he spent a few months at Duke and he's one of the more enlightened souls and for whatever reason like this is a real take sides type of argument where no one wants to change your mind and the Boston element of this is like look this isn't about stepping unlucky this is about all sorts of shit that went on

especially towards the end of his run couldn't be bothered to show up to game 7 and 18 completely mails it in in 19 was petulant and pissed off the entire time after starting the season saying if you'll have me back i'm staying and so there's a lot that's that's what it is it's not about the leprechaun it's those three things you just said it's no one gives a shit about the leprechaun but then it's like upon kairi to be like all right well let's just move past this you're like that's just not how it works man it's not how it works and then the first thing he did was put his hand in front of the cameras they were getting ready to jump out for center tip and you're thinking like what are you like and it was a look like oh please not now and you're like this is the

fucking story man this is the way it goes i'll tell you this they're doing the national anthem it wasn't on TV, I bet. And the first time, the lady's singing it, and the first time there's a pause before she starts the next stanza, some guy way up is like, fuck you, Kyrie! Just in this dead spot, the anthem. And everyone's like, oh my god.

On Easter, dude? He is the best villain. And I mean this in a totally benevolent way. He's the best villain the Celtics mean this in a totally benevolent way. He's the best villain the Celtics crowd has had, I don't know, since... Sixer stuff? I would say LeBron, but LeBron wasn't a villain like this.

It was like there was a respect with him. He tried to get in his head, but ultimately it wasn't like there was an antipathy. I'm going way back to like Lambert. Like when Lambert decked Bird in the 87 and then that next game when it was just like, we hate this guy. I do feel like they take the Kyrie thing personally

and they take it even when he has the quotes about, I don't know what I did. We ended on a good run. Like we had some highlights. That almost was like pouring gasoline on the fire. It's like there were no highlights. You didn't play in the first playoffs. The second season was a disaster

and then you left. So I don't know. I'm glass half full on this. I think this is what makes sports great because the crowd bought the best out of him. That was, as that last hour of the game, that was about as well as he can play, right? I mean, on a big stage in a

playoff game, he can't play better than that. He tried to get a switch. Like, I'd like to see him run just more straight KD setting screens for Kyrie and then seeing how the switch plays out for the Nets. Because if you end up getting the smaller switch on Durant, then Durant has just a clear advantage. But, you know, I cannot say enough about Al Horford in this game,

which I need to spend more time on. He was immense. Let's say the Kyrie thing. Kyrie on the 1-3 where I was just like, I give up with this guy. The one in the corner when the play broke down. That was a two, right. And Brown's in the corner with him,

and he just kind of turns around and makes a 24-footer. It was insane in person. It was like, really? You're going to make that? On the three where he broke the 1-11 tie, 1-14, person. It was like, really? You're going to make that? On the three where he broke the 111 tie, 114, 111, they didn't get the switch. The Celtics worked their ass

off to stay out of a bad switch and Kyrie's kind of stuck and he goes, all right, whatever. So, I mean, the whole villain. And Smart was on the line for that. He's like, yeah, you're not shooting a three and Kyrie's like, no, I'm actually going to shoot a 28 foot step back. Right. It's not going to touch touch the rim kairi there was video of him before going out to the arena somebody's like you suck and he goes suck my dick right back to the guy and i mean

it was weird it's backed by that tunnel area he gave a finger a few different times who knows what's gonna happen there he said fuck off bitch to somebody in our section in the uh in the third quarter he for a guy that's like but the thing is it's like did it bother him when he was the best man on the floor no we were sitting there going why are we antagonizing him you should be applauding him every time he makes a shot it should be like soccer pause i will i'll tell you this this is my this might be the part though where it did happen because i've seen this with him plenty of times before he wanted that last shot so

fucking bad that that actually screwed him up and now Durant's got the ball with less than three seconds left in the shot clock and then that because he did chaos he did the Chris Paul thing where he dribbled across the lane and he thought he was going to get that Chris Paul fall away but there are two Celtics waiting on it Horford and he just had no way Horford was. He just had no way. Horford was, as you said, that was a throwback, like 2014 Atlanta performance. But yeah, listen, with Kyrie, with the history,

with the Celts, and then you have KD, who's one of the 10 best players of all time, and you're up 15. You don't feel like you're up 15 because it feels like the moment anybody makes a shot on their side,

they're going to go on a run. And the other thing, I'm not sure you could see this on TV or not, but Nash was into that game. Like I've never, I haven't admittedly, I haven't been a lot of Nets games in person. He was into that game,

like an ex-athlete. Like he was coming on the court. He was fist pumping. He was like in the crouch. Guys were coming off the court. He was like going for high fives. Like he was really, really Norman Dalish.

It was so intense. They knew. I think they could bring it up. They brought it up a couple times and they showed it. Yeah. I've never seen him like that. Have you? I mean, I've seen him when he played, but not as the coach.

No, they were. They actually made note of it a couple different times. I think the Kyrie part of it, there's two, because if there is one thing about Kyrie that seems to be consistent is that how much people really like him. So when you remove all the weird part of it and the fact that I don't know how dependable of a duty is, but just if there's kind of a baseline interaction, as we've said all these times, like all these players that want to end up with him, you're like, there's a part of this that a lot of us just don't understand that guys love them. And I wonder if Nash from a competitive spirit and maybe, I don't know, I don't know the Kyrie experience.

This entire year was a ton of fun for everybody on the management side of things. And I think Nash even showed his frustration. But maybe in that moment, when an entire arena is trying to go at your guy and he's hitting every single shot, that maybe that gets something out of Nash. Or it's just a close game and it finally feels... Well, see, that's the thing. As I say, it finally feels like they have all their pieces,

but there's still a dude out there in designer clothes rebounding for people. Yeah, I sent you a picture at halftime of Ben Simmons for whatever reason going under the basket before the third quarter

and just doing some rebounding. Unclear what his role was today. Let's take a quick break. I want to stick with the Kyrie thing. The playoffs are here and you can make every game feel like game seven on FanDuel Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. FanDuel hooking up with free bets throughout the playoffs. It doesn't matter if you're a new customer or already have an account. Just be sure to check out the app for exclusive same game parlays.

Look at that Monday night. I mean, I like when the team that didn't win in game one, you always like to kind of ride them potentially in game two. I think out of all the candidates, got to say, probably look at the Mavs because I think they're going to be underdogs. Maybe ride a little Jalen Brunson, a couple of Davis Bertons threes.

I don't know. You do. You pick one of your teams between the Raptors, the Jazz, and the Nuggets, one of the round one road teams, and I would just ride a whole bunch of props with them. FanDuel, so many ways to play. Best of all, when you win,

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Refund issued is now withdrawalable. Free bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max free bet $20 per week. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? In Arizona, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP. Connecticut, 888-789-7777.

In Colorado, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, 1-800-GAMBLER. In Michigan, 800-270-7117. 1-877-770-STOP. In Louisiana, 1-800-GAMBLER. In Michigan, 800-270-7117. 1-877-770-STOP. In Louisiana, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan. 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. Tennessee red line is 800-889-9789. And in West Virginia, 1800-GAMBLER.net. So I was thinking,

I've been lucky enough to go to a lot of good basketball games in person. And I think the only point guard who has scared me this much in my entire life, but I've been going to basketball games since the mid-70s, is Isaiah Thomas. Where in an atmosphere like that, which I think some guys would either fold a little bit or get a little skittish

or they try to press or whatever. There's two guys who are like, cool, bring it on. Name me a defender you have, I'm going to score on that person. We had Marcus on, who I voted for defensive player of the year, who I thought did a good job.

He fell asleep once on a big three, like halfway through the fourth quarter. He may immediately kill a timeout. But other than that, he was all over the place. And Kyrie just put 39 on him and the rest of the Celtics. And his ability, if you come too far out, just to go by you and do that kind of swooping layup thing

that he does, where it's just like, wow, that was too easy. Why didn't we have somebody over? He was immense. And then Durant, who had a bad game, still did like seven things that only he was the only guy in the history of the game who could do it, right? Watch this seven-foot guy just basically like, oh yeah, I sucked in the first half. Watch this. I'm going to have three field goals in a row. I thought if I'm a Nets fan,

the Dragic piece of that game, I think is my biggest thing I'm fired up about. Because Dragic piece of that game I think is my biggest thing I'm fired up about. Because Dragic not only, you know, and had somebody that's killed the Celtics in the past. He killed them two years ago in the Miami-Boston series. There's a fear factor with them. He's been in some big games. That dude was not afraid and was making shots and

I was not expecting that. Were you? No, he stunk this year for Brooklyn. I mean, I thought he looked unplayable at times during the regular season. And he's out there taking 14 shots in this kind of playoff game, which also speaks to how well... We all know that the Stars,

the guys in all these playoff games, but your role players have to keep the other team honest. They have, or it gets really weird when there's a dude out there in a playoff game now, which is almost the way these teams are all trying to be built,

is how many guys can we put out there that you have to respect? How many do you trust? We talk about that every year, the trust tree. How many guys you have? Four, five, six,

seven. Can you get to eight? He's in the twenties from three granted 16 games. He's 35 years old. Yeah. But this was somebody that was a really important part of a Miami team that made a run, but obviously it wasn't as healthy as you would have liked to have been.

There's a lot of of sneaky playoff shit, like little screens where he sticks the foot out a little bit. He's just the vet. I think they needed him. I think he kind of kept them in the game in a couple different spots there with some shots he made. So I think that's a bonus for them.

I'll be interested to see if Drummond keeps playing because I think that was the biggest asset for the Celtics. He's too slow and not in a good way for them because I think offensively they were getting, you know, they were finding a nice little rhythm of either trying to run or just, you know, keeping the lane open for their two guys.

So I would say probably less Drummond. I forgot to mention this. Claxton got fouled. What was that, with like a minute left? Yeah. And I think they had a chance to go up two. And he missed the first one. And we thought he was going to miss the first one because

his free throw shooting looks pretty bad when you're watching. The second one, and I was there for when Kawhi when he missed one or two in the Ray Allen shot game in 2013 where he missed the first one and the second one,

it was so loud. You're like, how does anyone even function in this, much less try to make a free throw? He's like, oh my God, like I'm nervous and I'm just standing over here at the side. So you knew Claxton was going to miss the second one. But that was how loud it was. It reminded me of like a legitimate finals game.

I have a small thing to point out because the Claxton minutes, you're right. I mean, he played 31 off the bench Drummond was 17 he was in a foul trouble a little bit earlier but he had four fouls in the first half the big small thing though can always be weird game to game and I cannot I say it every single playoff year but it happens where there'll be a big that looks like he doesn't belong out there but then there's other times you go, we need this big guy to stay in because he makes rebounding so difficult.

Like Tristan Thompson's always a good litmus test for this. Not this version of Tristan Thompson who tells you what a leader is all the time. I'm talking about the guy that was playing with the Cavs when they came back from 3-1 and that there were certain times you're like, you can't have this dude out here chasing around all these moving parts.

But then there were other times you're like, man, he is destroying them on the glass because he's just a bigger body so it always feels like unless it's an absolute really great five or a shooting four that's that's masquerading as a five who's going to play as 35 minutes you know i mean like eight to me is the prototypical five who gets to stay on the floor the entire time no matter what he's never coming off because it's just too many good things versus bad things but there does seem to be in all the years of me watching playoff games a guy that looks unplayable one night then plays the next night and it's because that's fair there's a there's a brute force part of it but claxton lets them do other

things i mean claxton well he was able to defend tatum at least a little bit which i didn't expect because no they were putting they were putting big miles on Durant, which I just don't think they can do if they have to win four of the next six games. But here's something to pay attention to. I don't know if it was just a mistake, but prior to it being like 111-109 on the two missed Claxton free throws, the Nets lined up Bruce Brown and Kyrie on the inside for the second free throw. Not the first free throw. So I'm watching going, what the fuck are you guys doing? I couldn't believe it. Yeah.

So I did just something like, if that happens again, will they ever let that be the rebound lineup? Oh, I would have brought in big guys for that because nobody thought he was making that second one. He's got a weird motion too. He's got, you're watching it going, how do any of these go in? I couldn't believe it. They might actually hack him, potentially. The Tatum thing. Tatum, they took out of the fourth quarter.

Part of that wasn't his fault because I thought the Celtics, especially when White was out there, White just was going too slow. He was so methodical. They were starting the offense with 13 seconds left. You can't jump out of bounds, by the way, too. That was one of the biggest possessions where you're like, they're going to lose this game. I know Durant cut him off and did a great job

moving in front of it. You just can't dribble yourself right out of bounds on that big of a possession. He was at least smart enough to give it to Brown with 10 seconds left. The first three quarters, there were moments with Tatum. I really felt like he was going at Durant in a different way than I expected in person, like as a peer instead of a little brother thing, which is something that people have talked about.

He's not the little brother anymore. He's not like, oh, it's so cool. I'm on the US team with you. And I've looked up to you and I was watching when I was a kid. I did not see that today. I felt like he felt like I need to go at this guy. I need to tire him out. I need to defend him on D. The passing, he had like seven assists in the first half, the passing with him. And then in the fourth quarter, everything faded back to the old Celtic style of just slow ball, ISO, not getting easy shots. And it went away, but it was still impressive to watch. I also think

you're thinking that last shot, Rosillo, the presence of mind to make a cut. Yeah, Durant slept on it too, but I don't really... Durant and Kyrie, both of them. Well, you see, I watched the replay. Durant looks up at the clock because he's like Durant and Kyrie both of them Durant well you see I watched the replay

Durant looks up at the clock because he's like how is there more time Jalen had the ball with like five seconds left and somehow the last five seconds took an hour but the presence of mind

where Marcus has the two guys charging at him ducks under and then you think oh he's definitely shooting this and Tatum's just he's going to the hoop he's making it like

an old school 1950s cut. And Kyrie has no idea. Kyrie fouled him, by the way, in that play. And does that spin move that I think if he missed it would have been the all-time, oh, like one of those outs. But the layup at the buzzer, man, it's got to be one of those. I listened to Mike Breen's call.

He kind of almost, it was a rare Breen's call. He kind of almost... It was a rare miss from the man. He kind of blew it. Because I'm at home going, what's the confusion? I didn't think it was... I thought... The weird thing was,

I was like, wait, we're already out of time, but yet it felt like it took forever. Because it went through and the red thing went on, but the ball was going through the basket. Right. Kyrie takes forever on the play, which was one of the only things he did wrong tonight.

Durant gets it way too late. You got to get the rebound. You get the board. Love Yudoka saying, we don't call timeouts there unless I think something's wrong. I'm surprised that Jalen didn't force the issue on the drive because you start freaking a little bit pressing, but he didn't really have an angle and it wasn't like a one-on-one situation. There was two to him. Marcus not shooting that basketball is the single most surprising element of his entire career. I think he wanted to.

It seemed like two giant guys were coming flying at him. And for DeRay, I wouldn't turn this into some of these egregious losing your man moments because you're at the very And for DeRay, I wouldn't turn this into some of these egregious losing your man moments because you're at the very end of the game and you're like, you know, weird. But to still have

the presence of mind, like kids out there, just cut. Keep making cuts. Just keep moving. It's a shocking thing that happens. Like a lot of good things

happen if you keep cutting. And then for Tatum to catch it and kind of know through that, here's my plan. And then B Tatum to catch it and kind of know through that, here's my plan. And then Breen, unfortunately, locked in on the middle official who was waving it off, but he wasn't waving it off.

He was waving to be like, hold on, we got to check to see how much time is. So I think Breen looking at the official felt guilty of that because I'm thinking, wait, there's no way that wasn't good. I have an idea. I have an idea. I have an idea. I think they just need to redub his call because this game

will be on like hardwood classics and all those things, right? Just send him into the studio. Nobody has to know. Just have him dub a new track. He laid it in! That's the game! We need one of those. He couldn't do a bang because it was a layup. So I don't know what his layup bang is. And the irony is, is for the last few weeks espn's audio on some of the nba games has been ahead of

right why is that so this has been going on now for a few weeks so like mark jones and breen have sounded the most locked in you've ever heard a play-by-play ever be because they're like and it's good and it's like not even to the rim yet. Man, these guys are locked in. Even Hubie sounds locked in. He's like 90. I wonder what that does for Tatum's career going forward. It might mean nothing. It might mean something.

It might be a moment. He had that three at the end of the third quarter. I didn't tweet during the game. It was the only time I tweeted about the it was just like the Pierce Harrington homage from 03 when he at the end of the third quarter. And I didn't tweet during the game. It was the only time I tweeted about the... It was just like the Pierce Harrington homage from 03 when he... You knew where he was going to shoot.

You knew what the spot was going to be. And he did it anyway. And he made it and then turned around, did the kiss to the sky. He's... I just, for me, I feel like he's on the list now with whatever list we want to make of the top guys. I do feel like he doesn't dabble his feet in there anymore.

He does enough stuff every game now that I think he's as good as these guys. I don't think that's a crazy Homer thing to say. I mean, I voted for him first team all NBA. If Durant had played enough games, Durant gets the spot. But I think Tatum is in those circles now.

As a two-way player, the stuff he was doing, how active he is, how hard he played, how many minutes he played. And I didn't even think he had a particularly incredible game. I just think that's who he is now. All right, remember when we did our top 20, top five players and it was kind of built around the Tatum thing? Yeah.

I think it was because I had heard Scout say it a couple times and it was kind of like, I think it was the Hornets game and they were just like yeah he's a top five player now I'm like I don't know about that I think we all love the guy you know the frustrations we've had with Tatum were because we thought he was going to be so we saw these glimpses you go back to 18 and being like what the hell is this guy going to

be and then it felt a little ISO heavy like what's going I don't think he did a great job against the pressure and then within this season, the passing that we saw in tonight's game was exactly what you go. Like to be one of those guys, to carry your team,

you have to figure out a way to make everybody better while not taking every single shot. Especially when the other team's trying to take you out. Right. And his passing, you know, that's how you counter. And then things will start to break down or sometimes you should give it a handoff

and then reset it and get it back to the guy and the the second time around if you have enough time in the shot clock the defense isn't as locked in which is like a trey young thing that we'll talk about at some point this week but him hitting that three against claxton was exactly the iso shit that we used to hate right and so i i don't want to turn this into hey they just won this epic first game in the first round but But I don't think it's crazy. I still need a playoff run where he's the guy. Where he's like this every game. Yeah.

And it's this kind of run where we're playing here later into the playoff season. Not necessarily just the NBA finals. But I need that kind of from him before I start saying, hey, you can't have a list of five guys without Tatum. Because that seems strong. I'm not ready to say that because I think that list is longer than five guys now. It's more a tier, right? It's more a tier

than it is the five guys. And I think the regular season list might look a tiny bit different than the playoff list. I'm just looking at his box score, which I didn't even look at before we did this. He played 45 minutes. He was 9 for 18. He was 10 for 12 from the free throw line. And he had eight assists in five turnovers. But in general, that's kind of what I want from him in a game like that. Right. I want him to go to the line. I want him to be the two way guy. He

was, he outscored Durant, which you're going to take every game. And I just thought he was, sometimes you go to games, we've talked about this, where it's like, where was that guy for the last six minutes? It's the Andrew Wiggins corollary. It's like, wait, Wiggins? Oh, I thought he's been out there the whole time.

Oh yeah, he's played the whole third quarter. Chris Bosh had that some for me where I'd go, what? Oh. Tatum. Okay. Tatum was very present for that entire game.

And that's what, I think if he just has that on both ends and he's just present and around and moving and playing good basketball, he's going to make that final list. He is. So I think big picture. I think the Nets are a little better than I thought they were.

I think the Celtics probably... I just wasn't expecting the drawgish part. I didn't think they had the kind of depth. I think the Celtics probably... I just wasn't expecting the Dragic part. I didn't think they had the kind of depth. I don't know if that's a complete fluke or if that's just, alright, 2020 Dragic is now in the Nets. I think they're missing

that one 6'7". It's the Kessel Edwards guy, but a better version of him. They're missing that 6'7", 6'8". Kind of badass role-player swing guy who can come like Jay Crowder three years from now. Well, whatever. Jay Crowder

three years from now. The guy's been in some battles who just kind of knows some tricks to slow down Tatum for five minutes. And the drumming piece, you know, whatever. We'll say Seth Curry looked better, I think, than I've seen him in a while.

He was moving around pretty well. That was part of the reason Nash seemed like he couldn't decide who his guys were. By the way, what did that Kyrie pass to the corner for the Brown three look like? Was it Brown who hit it?

That's the thing is, Kyrie did like seven things in that game. I'm just like, I've never seen that before. That pass was so... So, I don't know that we've really... I want to give you more space here. Where are you? I assume you're standing up.

Like, okay, you're all standing up, I imagine, as Kyrie dribbles it on that last possession and Durant misses the shot and the rebound. So, you're all standing up. Like, what Kyrie dribbles it on that last position and Durant missed a shot in the rebound. So you're all standing up like what's going through your mind throughout that entire thing. And then what was it like once it happened? Did everybody know it was good? Cause I think it played out worse on TV than it must've in the building. With the Tatum thing.

Yeah. It was, it was just so a couple of things I thought they would, you know, in the old days we stood like the whole second half really like, it seems like in 2022, it's like you stand for the last seven minutes, which I'm personally, I wish it was the whole second half. I'm just ready. Like a game like that, I'm standing.

I just want to stand. I don't want to sit in my seat. But, you know, they call timeout. They're down three. And you think, if we don't score here, the game's over. Because the way, that's the other thing with the Nets, the way they shoot with Kading and Curry and Kyrie,

it's like they're making their free throws. So if we don't score here, the game's over. And then it all happened like super fast. There were no timeouts in the last 46 seconds, right? Brown scores, Nets come down,

take too much time, Celtics have the ball, Emei doesn't call timeout, which I loved. And all of a sudden, the game's over. It just felt like in slow motion, you're worried the guy's not going to get the layup off in time. But you know he did

because the red light went on as the ball's going through. And then it was just... I hate bringing up 2004 ALCS for anything, but it felt like that. It felt like the two game winners that they had in those two Yankee games where it felt like that. It felt like the two game winners that they had in those two Yankee games where it was just

chaos. And I think people really love this team. They like these guys. They really do. They like Tatum. They like Smart. These are like their guys. You could feel it in the crowd. I just don't know that I feel comfortable comparing it to the Yankees ALCS.

That's what I mean. I don't mean from a, I don't want to compare it from a moment or significance, but just the whole, I can't believe what just happened. Mass chaos kind of feel, you know, you've been at games like that where it's just like, Oh my God.

Like people just lose their minds. Cause you, you, it's like your, your head explodes. What about the 2013 ALDS against the Rays? Yeah. Let's go there.

We go with like maybe a Manny Manny Anaheim thing yeah I'm not comparing it to the Red Sox no it's just I like that

I like those Angel series the thing is when you go to a sporting event very rarely does like something incredible happen like that oh yeah

and you could you could process it after the fact but as it's happening that's that's what I mean where you're just like I

and everybody's just high-fiving and jumping at each other and I thought the Nets it was interesting KD and Kyrie were just like all right

you could see like they're vets like they've been in a million big games but I'll be interested to see how it affects some of the younger guys I don't think it's going

to matter I don't if anything I going to matter. I don't. If anything, I think the great players, they get motivated by it. Whereas the Celtics probably drop in their first one, come out and play harder in game two because of it. Not saying they're going to let up necessarily in game two. I'm a big human nature guy.

I just feel like every outcome motivates the next outcome. That's how sports work. It's not so much momentum. It's just when you're pissed, if you're down 2-0, you're playing harder than the team that's up 2-0 in game three. If you're somewhat evenly matched,

which these teams are. I know we're going to get into the rest of the stuff, so I don't want to derail. You just keep going wherever you want to go, and then I'll figure it out. What you just said, it made me think like, just because Mike Greenberg had to ad lib play-by-play

and couldn't pull it off yesterday doesn't mean that's who he is as an ad lib play-by-play guy. He just had a bad game. If he has to ad lib play-by-play, I argued, I thought for a Greeny cast, that was the wrong time to launch it.

Can you imagine if we were on a studio show, how excited we would be if they're like, Hey, you guys got to carry the play by play for six minutes. Like really? Okay. To be fair to those guys.

That'd be like the highlight of my life. Jalen was the only one who seemed to understand like what to do. There may have been a time. I think one of the guys didn't know who one of the players was, but I, I would tell you that I think that's a really hard thing to ask greeny steven a and jalen right prompt to hey the audio's down ad lib at least they cut the countdown music which didn't make a ton of sense it's well the tendency is to just

over talk but really it should just be like just lay back and hang out and enjoy it but anyway um that was a lot to ask of those guys. And they got made fun of a ton. Like people were making fun of Ruko for doing a countdown that ended up on the live broadcast. And it's like, wait a minute, that's how it works. You're testing the lines.

And at that point, it was already a mess. So they're trying to figure it out. So whatever. We're going to take a break. I want to move to Raptors Sixers and then we can save the rest of it for part two. Try to wrap this up in an hour. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

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Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, coming back. I heard Kyle Mann say this on the Ringer NBA show with Big Waz this weekend. I thought it was a great point. I'm just going to steal it. He said Toronto, as we neared toward the playoffs had taken

on that mid-major that everybody gets super excited about, thinks it's going to make the final four kind of energy. And then they went against the Blue Bloods school and got their ass kicked. Toronto, like, and I like Toronto. I thought they were pretty, they were like plus 160 on FanDuel, I think

heading into that series. And I thought they had every chance to win. That game one couldn't have gone worse. So there's two ways you could go with the game one that goes terribly. You could either say, you know, like Denver and Golden State, I'd be really worried if I'm Denver because, you know, Curry didn't even play well in the game, never seemed close. And so we'll talk about that in part two. The Sixers-Raptors one,

the combination of, it really felt like the Sixers had the three best players in the game. That was one problem. And then Barnes goes down with, it's just one of those where you're going, there's no way he's back for game two. I'm probably not back until later in the series

when you have 300 pound a bead stepping on your foot. So I went in the span of two and a half hours from thinking Toronto is either going to win this series and come damn close

to thinking now this lined up beautifully for Philly, right? Maxie takes this huge step up. They have Miami in round two, which I think Bede, you know, could really maybe have an impact against.

And they're just going to let Boston and Milwaukee and Brooklyn all beat the shit out of each other. And they could creep along here. Everybody wrote this off. It feels a little nobody believes in us-ish, Russillo. All fair and accurate points. I'm going to run through some stats for you. Philly had three turnovers and their shooting splits were 51% overall, 50% from three and 85% of the free throws. And then Maxie goes nuts as the third guy, which I think all of us need to maybe outside of Philadelphia because

76ers fans have already accepted it. But in our quest for who the third guy is on these championship contenders, I mean, is Maxie actually a third guy? I mean, the numbers that he's had the last two months, he's 49 and 44% splits in March. In April, he was 57 and 54% from three, 21, four, and two averages. And whatever we think of a diminished Harden, which I think is a completely fair observation of him,

you've got to figure out doubles and Embiid. Embiid going back to college was, he was giving himself, I don't think enough credit by saying, like, I started to figure out some of the things I need to do. Zero turnovers for Embiid in this game. He's like, look, when I play against Toronto, they kind of like come after me and it was all the shit. And I kind of maybe get sped up a little bit too much. And so he was really, I think, honest in saying, this is good for me because I didn't have any turnovers. I've always thought he's really good at reading it. I think he sometimes will try to prove a point

because all these guys that are considered the faces of their teams, I can't keep passing out of doubles all the time and take zero shots because then I'm going to get shit on. I think part of that is that it's hard for a big guy to survive with all these moving defenses and I think a guy like Embiid is like, I can't just pass out of these all the time, but when he

starts passing and even hockey passes and there's this attention on Embiid or trying to cut off Harden on some of the stuff, this is easy for Maxey. And even with a Toronto defense that usually has a million guys that are switching, but their injury report for game two, we got doubtfuls on Barnes, Trent, and Thaddeus Young. And I don't think Van Vliet looked great in game one. Yeah, the Van Vliet thing was the most surprising thing to me because some people voted for him for first team all defense. And there were a lot of really favorable defensive metrics for him

as he's the best 6'2 and under defender that we have. And Maxie cooked everyone on the Raptors. And just seemed... Sometimes, man, I get so weird with the defensive metrics because sometimes I feel like they're great at the extremes. But even though we voted for Jokic for MVP, looking at some of the sorting on the defensive metrics for Jokic and then thinking about...

And I'm not trying to turn this into an Embiid-Jokic thing all over again. Yeah, but he's not. When you have a presence... Well, I'm sorry. I'm going to. When you have a presence like Embiid at the rim and you're driving there, you're thinking about it a little bit, right? When I watch the Warriors go, fuck this, and these cuts, where Jokic was never really a thought at the rim,

even though Jokic is improved as a defensive player, that's the kind of stuff where I watch. We should probably bring up some Gobert stuff because I saw you going at it with the dudes. We're doing that part too. Yeah, KFC and I, we love to have fun with that. John Schumann, who I think is a really good follow on Twitter. He's the NBA.com guy, right?

Yeah, he's good. He's a good guy too. He had the Sixers with 131 points on 89 possessions for an offensive rating of like in the 140, high 140s. So you have 89 possessions, high 140s. So you have 89 possessions, 131 points. That's about as good as you can do. It just, it's so weird.

That's built on defense, built on all the different things that he can do to you. And so you could point to the Barnes injury. They don't even, like, that game was won in the closing minutes of the second quarter. Yeah, I gotta say, I felt like second quarter, I was kind of locking out of my Raptors and Six. It just felt, from a talent standpoint,

because Harden wasn't even, it's like, whatever. If he's not even the same Harden anymore, I'm not sure that's even going to matter in this series. The Raptors just felt undermanned. This wasn't like Embiid killed him with a 40 and 20 either. It was that Embiid was the object that got other things going. But sometimes we have a hard time with the developmental stars or a guy that doesn't fit that profile coming out,

despite how many times Maxie's put up insane numbers now for months. And we'll start to categorize guys like, oh, is Tobias the third guy? Tobias isn't. Maxie's the guy. But Tobias was good in that game. I actually like how they were using him. They were using him as basically this glorified role player, which is kind of what he is now, right?

You just got to throw the contract aside. We say, like, I don't want to write off Toronto completely because 3, 4, and 6 are in Toronto. We know Fievel's not going to be in those games. And who knows? They'll have a great crowd. Maybe they'll get some calls in game three. They're down 2-1.

Maybe game four, Harden shoots, you know, 2-for-12. And then we get the whole, is James Harden a winner narrative? But at the same time, I'd be really nervous. Like the Toronto, that was a tough two and a half hours. Can we talk about Maxie really quick? So I was looking up, I was trying to figure out how do they hit on this?

What was it about Maxie? Why does he have it? KOC, I think had him 15th on our ringer draft board the year he came out. And he said he was a shot maker with a knack for making clutch plays on offense and defense. He's a

winner. That was KFC's like thumbnail sketch, right? Nice work. But the shooting stats weren't that good. And one of the questions was, well, this guy learned how to shoot. KFC had stuff in there about his shots, not that good, but his mechanics, it looks like it's somebody he could grow into whatever. Anyway, he goes 21st. And I was trying to think, is there some sort of way you could study this? Like you and I are both like total draft nerds with this stuff. Like what went wrong?

Should he have gone 21st? What did teams do wrong? Well, one of the things was he was the six point guard taken in that draft. So it was LaMelo, Hayes, Halliburton, Kira Lewis, and Cole Anthony all went ahead of him. So in a way, it's almost like when those NFL drafts where the quarterbacks cluster and not everyone needs a quarterback. So then all of a sudden somebody falls either the end

of the first round or the second round, just because people are like, cool, I'm all set a quarterback. So maybe that was part of it. But here's how rare it is to hit those picks in the 20s. Because you have him, 21st. You have Poole, who was 28th in 2019. Rob Williams, 27. Derek Wright was 29 in 2017. Siakam was 27. DeJounte Murray was 29 in the same draft in 2016. It's basically one in 10 when you get into the 20s, right? That you're going to get a guy. So what's the science behind those six guys? Maxie Poole, Robert Williams, Derek Waite, Siakam, and DeJounte Murray.

The answer is there is none. There's no rhyme or reason to some of this stuff. And I wonder, does Maxie succeed the same way if he goes to New Orleans? If you just flip him and Lewis, if he's in that spot, is he the same guy? I would tend to think he is. But I don't know. Anyway, any thoughts on this? The first thing that I always seem to notice with any of the smaller perimeter players

that we're not quite sure what position they play if they're like, oh, they had success. What's the wingspan? He's 6'3 with a 6'8 wingspan. He was a five-star. Rivals had him as the 10th highest rated recruit overall, not by position. 10th overall. He comes into a Kentucky team where quickly is actually the leading scorer

and then there was a big talent drop off and if you watched him, it felt like it was kind of quickly wasn't sure if he was supposed to do it all the time. And he's a guy with a high profile and the same thing for Maxie. So I just wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if they were sort of lost combo guards because years ago we would have hated them. Right. Yeah.

We're now combo is a good thing. Like if you're if you're a scoring point, if you're a non scoring point, like it's almost weird to think of any guards that are non-scoring threats anymore. Cause that's just what the game is. So I think it's like a, you're like a zero guard. You're not a one. You're not a two.

No, you have to be, you can't just be a one anymore. Like nobody wants that. Um, so wait, that point you just made about him as a high school recruit. I do think we,

I think we've talked about this before. I do think there's some science to that because he was 13th and like Aaron Neesmith that year was in the 50s somewhere. Which is low

for a landscaper. Right. The, sometimes the pedigree and you think especially like, oh, one year and now it flips where we thought heading into a college year that this guy was one of the 12 or 13 best players coming into college. And then the year doesn't go quite the way we thought.

So now he's the 21st best player coming into this draft. Sometimes I think that stuff gets overthought. At the same time, I was looking at the 2020 draft and the top six guys or 2020 class. The top six guys in that class were basically the top six you would think where it was like, it was Jalen Green, Kate Cunningham, Evan Mobley, Kaminga, Scotty Barnes, Jalen Suggs was our top six. Rarely does it work out that way. You go back in the old drafts and sometimes it's like Scal Labassiere

is the second guy. You're like, wow. Harry Giles was over Tatum. There's always those. For whatever reason, 2020, it's perfect. Giles got hurt. Giles got hurt. Scal was number two, though. He was ahead of Ingram. He was ahead of Jalen. Diallo.

Not the one I like. If we're ever running an NBA team, if we ever have some rich owner who's just like, I like those guys on Sunday nights, man. I just want to turn the team over to them. They know what they're talking about. I do feel like in the draft room, we would be looking up some of these old ESPN 100s. Try to be like, wait a second.

I really think it's a result thing. Like Avery Brad, this is a good example. Yeah, he was second. Right, because you were like, oh, was it weird? I really think it's a result thing. Like Avery Brad, this is a good example. Yeah, he was second. Right, because you were like, oh, was it weird? I just think it was kind of a weird Kentucky year. And certainly Kyle may speak to this better than I can. But I remember talking to one team about Maxie. Because remember, there was even like a weird moment where it's like, is it quickly or Maxie?

And I don't know. I thought pretty, I think it was a conversation. Maybe I'm giving it too much credit. I thought you could always kind of tell that Maxie. But Maxie seems to have this other gear but there were people telling me they liked him better in high school than they did in college and it wasn't like hey he's bad in college they were like we just thought we saw more from him and there's there's just a fuck you-ness to his game that like i want contained fuck you you know i don't yeah i

don't want out of control like wow you're so tough and you're fearless and you take so like anthony edwards is a 10 out of 10 on the contained i don't want to step on part two but anthony edwards is a 10 out of 10 on the contained fuck you skill that's it we're not allowed to talk about it we're saving it for part two we never have to worry about you becoming a drug addict because anthony edwards exists he just gives me life. You know, I was looking at the ESPN 100. You should make t-shirts and say I'm high on Anthony Edwards. I just fucking, I don't, we'll save it for part two. The ESPN 100 from 2021.

Chet was one. Jaden Hardy was two. Who I think went G League Or went somewhere for a year My least favorite draft profile I've written out yet Holy shit you want to talk about Non-contained fuckunus in a basketball game Well there you go He pulls up alright I'll save it for the draft stuff

But Hardy is like It's unbelievable to watch I was like oh my god I can't believe this guy Keeps doing this. Anyway, preview. Imani Bates was three. Who's already transferring. Paolo is four.

Jabari Smith was six. The guy who was number five is this guy, Patrick Baldwin, who, as I was looking at him, like Patrick Baldwin, and it was deep diving him last night during the boring gold state Denver game.

He had, he was choosing basically between Duke and playing for his dad in Milwaukee. And he's a 6'9 guy with handle. He kind of looks like a Doug Christie who shoots better. Ends up playing for his dad. It's a disaster.

He's hurt. He has a terrible year. Two separate months. Right. Like he missed a month, came back, and then missed like three plus weeks. His dad gets fired

right after the season. And now in like our ringer draft board, and then missed like three plus weeks. His dad gets fired right after the season. And now in like our ringer draft board, I think he's like 25th. And to me, I'm looking at that as like, all right, that might be kind of a gem of an asset. If you're getting that guy in the 20s, this guy who was a top five guy a year ago, and then made the mistake of going to play for his dad on a school he obviously shouldn't have picked, maybe that's a guy. That could be next year's Maxie. I don't know.

I give him the better to the doubt. I did my report on him last week and it was rough. Remember, you didn't like Zaire Williams who had a similarly rough college thing and now it's like, I like what I see from Zaire Williams now.

I think they might have hit that one, right? This is the thing that's impossible to figure out. And it's the Nick Claxton test. All right. And this is perfect. Nick Claxton at Georgia handled the ball. Looked like this weird 6'10 hybrid power forward guy. More face up.

Tried to take guys off the dribble. I was like, this is really weird. This is really weird, and it doesn't make any sense. He's immediately figured out who he needs to be to live in the NBA, and he's going to play for a long time. So what you have to ask, which I don't know, I don't care who you are as an evaluator, you go, will this person accept?

Because Zyre Williams at stanford i remember being like it starts great like there's some shit that he does i'm like yeah oh wow look at look at this look how nasty this is going to be and then it never worked it felt like the foundation was always there and the finish work was terrible he has figured out a very small role where he's out there running around he's competing like crazy. He's, he's stretching the defense a little bit, but he's not like trying to take over. Jaden McDaniels is my favorite version of this recently because he was running the offense at Washington for stretches. And you're like, oh wow, is this like a six, nine point guard prospect?

Like, this is crazy. You know, not like it was every single possession, but they were letting him do a bunch of different things with Minnesota. He shoots threes and he defends his ass off so when you're trying really impactful in game one i thought i think it's a really hard ask for young players who probably think if they didn't kill it in college it's like oh because it's a coach's fault because that's what everybody who plays basketball does he's playing coaches for two decades guys in pickup games 40 fucking years old mad at some guy at michigan state 20 years later i i don't know i don't know how you can ever project like will this person accept what they need to do to fit in knowing that like the all-star and the shit in the posters being a little kid when these guys are so young so that's why like there are hits on players but

it's up to the player to figure out who they need to be in a matter of a year. 18 months, they may have to decide, okay, this is who I'm going to be. And maybe I add more shit later on, but who knows? And I think that's a huge credit to these kids and these players, because I think it's almost an impossible thing to figure out before you take the player. Well, especially if you're a one and done guy going to college, think of all the stuff that happens. You're a freshman, you're in college, right? right on top of it you're a big man on campus totally it could be a big deal like that was a huge gift for stanford and you would see these little pieces like it's kind of like baldwin where baldwin has these moments you're like this guy's six nine he's putting on the floor he's dribbling past guys you're like

oh it never goes in um all right we're We're going to wrap up in a second. I have some quick Sixers-Raptors thing for you. Tough weekend for genius coaches. The Bill Belichick of basketball, Ty Lue. Blowing a play-in lead to the Raptors. Nick Nurse getting undressed by Doc Rivers, I thought. The Timberwolves. Oh, Nick Nurse. Nick Nurse against Doc.

Yeah, I mean, look, that was... Nick Nurse got a little undressed. Taylor Jenkins looked a little iffy. I actually thought... I mean, the Adams... I want to save it for part two, but the Adams was 2014 Kendrick Perkins-ish as a role in that series where you just go,

all right, how long are you going to stick with this one? But yeah, tough round for the genius coaches. The Clippers not making the playoffs. Wow. I mean, we covered it on my pod on Thursday, but wow. You think they were supposed to? No, I just,

there was a moment in that game where I was like, I can't believe New Orleans was going to win this. So the Clippers have all these battle-tested dudes. God, I'm so stupid. I bet on New Orleans. And then all of a sudden it flipped again. And, you know, it just...

They had a better... New Orleans, I thought, had a better team. I mean, they have the Alvarado and the Herb Jones as playoff role guys at home. Like, talk about the difference between what we saw today with Grant Williams and Tice and some of those guys that I wanted to step up. Those Alvarado and Herb Jones were like in the mix. Those guys had never played in an NBA game like that ever.

And I was impressed by them. I think they're going to get their asses kicked by Phoenix, but I was impressed. I want 30 seconds on the Pelicans. Yeah. David Griffin and that staff. You want 30 seconds on the Pelicans. Yeah. David Griffin and that staff, you want to talk about not getting enough credit? Yeah. They don't get any fucking credit, all right? And because we'd heard all the rumblings that Griff might be out,

you know, that this is disastrous, this back and forth with Zion, which I've heard 10 different versions of. That's why I've probably just given up talking about it. But if you think to all the young players that they've drafted and how they've put together this team with the problems that they've had to have Herb Jones, even Murphy, the kid from UVA,

who I still wish he knew. There's more to his game and he doesn't seem to want it. But that was a nice pickup to have Alexander Walker in the Josh Hart trade to add somebody like CJ where you talk about tiers of players and you go whatever you've

given up like CJ's at the other tier now we have a tier beyond what we gave up here I still like Kyra Lewis that team has done a very good job with with drafting and developing and I don't always love Jackson Hayes but like I thought the Jonas Stephen Adams

trade was a good one the CJ trade was a good one one ingham's a good player granted it's going to be more limited when zion's running the point the whole fucking time but that team doesn't get any like no one ever talks about my guy alvarado yeah right alvarado too i mean you go on and on anybody could add him they've done such a good job with this but the zion thing has been such an overshadowing headline that i i don that I don't feel like I've heard anybody nationally talk about, hey, you know who deserves credit? The Pelicans. Well, he's literally overshadowing people when he's sitting

on the bench because he looks huge. He just does look like he's in shape to me. Still. I don't know if the foot's healthy, but no, I mean, it's rough. Last thing on the Philly game. The Harden stuff I think will become

a storyline I don't think it's going to be this series but you know they went up 15 and Toronto was kind of and then all of a sudden

that was when Harden started making a couple step backs it was like this is James Harden time we're up 17 who knows I mean he's such a good passer that he can get away with the diminished bursts This is James Harden time. We're up 17. Who knows?

I mean, he's such a good passer that he can get away with the diminished burst. He's just so skilled at playing basketball, he can kind of cheat code it a little bit. But it will become a storyline at some point. The game I just went to, I don't know how hard I could have played in that game. I honestly, I don't know what happened to him in that game. How many bodies were banging

and how fast and quick everybody was. I just can't see him surviving in a game like that in the shape he's in. You said something, and I know we have a bigger part two coming up here. Yeah. Bulls showing a little life. I thought the Bucks were going to score by,

win this by 40 when it started. I don't know, not i'm not calling you out on this but i imagine in transit you did you get to watch much of miami because you started by saying you think it's four teams that it's phoenix that it's boston and it's brooklyn and did you include memphis as that fourth or was it golden state as the fourth no i boston milwaukee brooklyn and phoenix oh brooklyn I was saying I didn't realize. For me, Brooklyn wasn't on that top tier. And watching today, it's like, ah, this team.

As long as they have six guys, they have to be taken seriously. I know it's Atlanta, but what the Heat did to them defensively today is horrifying. I got to say, totally unfair though, that Atlanta has got to play Cleveland on a Friday night and then they saddle them with the 12-30 ET Miami game when Boston and Brooklyn should have been that game.

But they want to put Boston and Brooklyn in the ABC spot. I just think that's, to me, that's a schedule loss. I watched the first two quarters of it and i was schedule loss i wrote it off i don't think we learned anything or the heater way better than the hawks well they might be way better i'm just like i want to see game two no i mean you go through it it's the first game for the heat in nine days where atlanta had you know they've had

i'm trying to find it here again it's isn't all that interesting, but they had like three games in the time where Miami was off. But it was slightly different than Cleveland's approach of, hey, we're going to trap you now, Trey Young. And then to see how Miami hands Trey Young off. We'll do more of it in part two, but I... I'm glad you mentioned that. I thought Cleveland had a rough Friday night. I thought the Cleveland strategy coaching

was pretty brutal in that game. The offense was right out of what we've talked about the entire time. Hey, late Cleveland offense, tight game. It's all Darius Garland. It becomes kind of easy to defend. The second shot creator is Karis Levert, who loves passing to guys

only when there's fucking.5 left on the shot clock. I'm not a fan, as you know. So the Cleveland part, offensively, is exactly who they've been, but defensively, you would have liked to see something that was a little less straightforward, because Trey torched him, and then, you know, today, it was a completely different deal. Maybe it was a schedule,

we'll see. I mean, Trey's obviously going to have a 40-point game at some point in the playoffs, but I want to spend more time on that game, because Miami, that was a clinic, defensively, what they did there. So, you're thinking you would have five teams in the, in the top tier. Hey, look,

Miami in there. I got a little tingly watching golden state Saturday too, man. But Denver's not good. Yeah. Let's save that for part two. All right. So we're going to watch the end of this bulls,

bulls, a bucks game. We're going to watch the Phoenix game. And as soon as that game's decided, we'll come back to part two, which just clear out for both of us. There's going to be some Anthony Edwards discussion. Just warning everybody now. We might need to be hosed down a couple times, but that's why we want to split this up. Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves deserve their own lead of a podcast. Rosillo, I will see you in a few hours.

This was produced, as always, by Kyle Creighton. Steve Cerruti was here as well. Thanks to him. And go Celtics. We'll see you for part two. On the wayside Never once said I don't have A few years with him On the wayside Never once said

I don't have A few years with him