The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: Does Portland Have to Trade Dame? Did Philly Ruin Things With Embiid? NBA Offseason Questions With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

In Part 1 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Damian Lillard's trade request, why they think the Trail Blazers should wait on trading Lillard, another James Harden trade request, the 76ers' future, fake trades for both Harden and Lillard, guessing the 2023-24 tank teams, and more. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we have a new rewatch of what's coming on Monday night. It is the first one in our theme month. I'll tell you what the theme is. Courtroom month. Oh yeah. Courtroom month. You heard me. All movies that have something to do with the courtroom. We did A Few Good Men and we did The Verdict in the past.

I have probably a couple others too, but all six movies that we're doing in July, including a bonus movie, all have to do with something related to the courtroom. The first movie we're doing, we're doing Primal Fear. And it's me and Sean and Chris and talking a lot about the courtroom tropes and why that movie was so impactful and why it's still impactful all these years later. So if you want to watch that before the podcast gets posted, it is on Showtime and Paramount and DirecTV and Fubo. Yeah. So there you go. Primal Fear, first one. Courtroom Month.

Get ready. Hold on to your seats. Coming up on this podcast, it is part one of a two-part podcast with Rosillo and I taping this Sunday, 3.30 p.m., part one. Breaking down all the NBA free agency stuff, teams, trade requests, everything you could possibly imagine. And then part two is going to post Midnight ET on Sunday night as well. So that is the plan.

Lots to discuss. Let's bring in Rosillo and our friends from ProJab. All right, taping this, 3.38 Pacific time on Sunday. We feel comfortable doing a podcast, not knowing what's going to happen with Damon Lillard's big trade request. Where do you want to start? Do you want to start with the Miami doesn't have enough piece of this? Do you want to start with the will Portland actually have the balls to just trade him to whoever offers them the most assets or the timing of the request,

which was basically, I don't know, 15 hours after free agency started, which was also kind of weird. Where do you want to start? I think the timeline is worth at least exploring for a couple of minutes before we get to the, probably the more interesting stuff,

because the report that I had read today was that they met on monday and it was with aaron goodwin and it sounds like that meeting was hey we're done here and i think you know for whatever you think the origin is of dame flirting with the idea of leaving which has been going on for a long time um them taking scoop three not being able to trade that for a contending asset adding to that probably we're not we're being able to trade that for a contending asset and adding to that. Or not wanting to trade it. Yeah. Which, based on what the offers would probably be, those are really hard trades. We went over so many different options of it. And I still think we thought every team would say no

to it because, hey, the Jalen Brown for the number three pick trade, you would have to absolutely think Scoot is like a no-miss kind of guy. And then if you were Boston, just hypothetically, you'd go, wait, why would we do that when we're a contender right now? So I think that was probably the last part of it. But I'll admit, in the beginning, after the Grant deal was done, Bill, I'm kind of like, wait, so now you ask for it? But I really think he let him know on Monday. And it sounds like Cronin, per his request, the GM, was like, give me a few more days. So I think this was already kind of decided. So to be fair to Lillard,

at least on this most recent timeline of the last week, I'm pretty sure Portland knew what was going to happen. Is that fair? Yeah, you and I are aligned on that. I think that's what happened too. And maybe they really wanted to re-sign Grant and were worried that they weren't going to be able to, or who knows, maybe they didn't want to lose any leverage if he hadn't officially asked for one. So where we're heading now, Woj, on Wednesday or Thursday, Adrian Wojnarowski talked about that we're in this transfer portal era now, which you and I have discussed for a couple of years. But I like the phrase transfer portal era.

I think that's really, really a good way to put it. So kudos to him. We're now in this era where, and the Celtics are staring at this now at the Jalen Brown extension, which by the way, has not been announced yet. And I think it's a little weird that we are now heading toward the night of July 2nd and we've had no news on an extension. I thought for sure that would be done by now. But the Celtics are thinking about that with him, like, all right, if we pony up 275 for five years or whatever, what happens if we lose in the Eastern finals? And then he's like, get me out of here. Is it going to be easy to trade that? Is that his plan all along? So you have these teams now trying to figure out the

motives of whoever they're signing because I'm signing with you for this money doesn't seem to mean anything anymore. And I think that's a really weird place to be and I'm not sure I like it. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought this up because I think it's up to all of us to kind of understand it. And it's a perfect term by Woj who's like, look, now it's get the contract and then worry about it. And I'll admit, like, I'm fascinated with the idea of, like, what we're desensitized to. We could say in life, but for what we talk about in sports, like, whether it was the 80s and thinking free agency was the death of sports. Like, think about that. It wasn't us because we were kids.

But, like, anyone listening to this now, if your parents were that into it, it was like, oh, ever since free agency. Like, that was a real thing. Well, remember the million-dollar contracts? Like, Nolan Ryan signed for, like, $3 million for five years. It was like, oh, ever since free agency, like that was a real thing. Well, remember the million dollar contracts like Nolan Ryan signed for like three million for five years. I was like, oh, the sports is over. This is done. Right. Remember when Sports Illustrated would do everyone's salary every year and it would be on the cover. And then I don't know that there was one dad out there that looked at that cover and was like, awesome.

I'm proud of these guys. Right. It was just, you know know the guy would grab his sports illustrator he'd look at it and be like what the fuck you know so it's just the way parker's making how much right like this guy this guy can't even feel anymore you know and that's that's kind of what we grew up with and then you know whether it's whether it's all the different you know the evolution of contracts and all this different stuff that happened but you know not that long ago it was all right this guy's going into his last year of his contract they're they're kind of screwed yeah and then it was like oh wait you know Anthony Davis was like

and there's other examples here I mean Steven Jackson was one of my all-time favorites he got the extension for three years and then was like now I, I'm good. I want out of here. Like he might be the OG of this whole thing. Oh, you're right. He's like the Lewis and Clark. He really is. Because I remember the reason I remember it so well, because at the time, nobody had done that kind of stuff. I mean, maybe there's another example that we're not thinking of and the circumstance could have been different, but he just straight up got the extension for three years and like 30 something million. And then I think it was the Warriors, right? And he just went. Well, C-Web did the giant rookie contract that had the one year out. Yeah, that was one year in. He's like, yeah, you better trade me or I'm going to opt out. And then

that became the Washington trade eventually. Right. That was its own thing that you were like, why would a team ever agree to that kind of thing using that kind of resource? It's like, why would Washington agree to Bradley Beal's no trade request? I've never seen anybody completely destroy whatever trade they could possibly get a year ahead of time. Like, of course that was going to happen. That's the one thing Portland has in their advantage now is at least Dame doesn't have a no trade.

You know, I don't know. I don't personally don't think they would fuck him over and be like, yeah, we traded you Utah for a shitload of stuff. Good luck. But he'll have to have some sort of sense. But who knows? We saw the Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas when he was hurt. We've seen a lot of cutthroat stuff in the league. So I don't know what to think. What does Joe Cronin care? He's going to do what's best for the team. And he's got Scoot, and he's got Sharp, and he's got Simons, and he's got Grant Lockdown. And they have all their draft picks, and they're in a good spot. He definitely has Grant Lockdown.

That's for sure. Right. But I think we've gone at warp speed from this guy has a year or he has a year and an option, and then Beal fresh off the extension where they could give him the extra raises. They can give him the extra year. Then they give him the no trade that it feels like the NBA public has just accepted like, oh, Dame has a four year deal here, which, by the way, I screwed up last week. When you scroll down further, you see the last two years. There's the extension years. Yeah, because it's a little different.

That's my mistake um 58 million 63.3 million three and four years from now and then you go wait because like ben simmons did it but i guess you could argue with that one like it was so untenable clutch was telling him he's not playing for you he's not okay and we were wondering like when's the fake injury happening and And then it was, no, my mental health is such that I just can't play for Philly. So then that was kind of a weird one. So I think it's all worth talking about in that way. Don't forget Durant, too. Durant signed the extension a year later, asked for a trade.

Yeah, so this is all, I still feel like it's somewhat new, but now we're conditioned like, oh, Dame signs an extra extension after the first max extension to get the next two years, and now he wants out, and he only wants to go to Miami. And I guess we're supposed to think everybody's supposed to be cool with it. And it kind of just brings it back to your point with Cronin. Why is he going to do him the favor? Is there any pushback coming?

You and I have talked about this forever, about what is in it for the teams to do right by the players. And do they get paid back? And my theory is, I don't think they get paid back. I actually think maybe they should be a tiny bit more cutthroat with all this stuff.

We'll talk about the free agent signings later, but I can't believe nobody just said, hey, let's try to fuck the Lakers over and offer Austin Reeves 98 million for four years. Why not? You're competing against the Lakers. They're one of the contenders for the next few years, at least. Why not try to hurt them in some way? San Antonio had the cap space to do it and just decided not to. And it's like, they're going to have to play the Lakers at some point when Wemby matures. So I don't know.

It's weird. The players seem more cutthroat than the teams at this point, which is certainly different than the way it used to be. I will say that. I guess the simple question is, are any of us supposed to go, wait a minute, why did you do a two-year extension, which gets you $63 million four years from now? But it's back to your transfer portal thing. I think the understanding the way business is done now, which also speaks to how much less value there is with cap space. The years there were six or seven teams stockpiling cap space. Now it's worthless because guys aren't even becoming free agents. They're getting their max deals and then they're asking for trades and they're certainly not asking for like a year left.

Right. It's well, the Carmelo in 2011 when Denver was trying to trade him and you know, he could have just waited and signed with the Knicks, right? But he wanted to go to the Knicks so he could get the extra year in his contract, right? So the Knicks had to trade assets for him. Remember, they traded him to Brooklyn and he was like, cool, but, or it was the Nets. And he's like, I'm not signing. Right, right, right. Yeah. Or they were down the road with the trade. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously it wasn't official, official, but like, it's weird. I almost look

back at Mello and saying, Mello, even though it was miserable for them day to day because that dragged on and it was still kind of new did mellow do it in the best way like mellow in 2023 takes the full max extension from denver then shows up and goes oh by the way i want out of here but he did the next did have to trade assets to make that trade work and then he goes to the next and did have to trade assets to make that trade work. And then he goes to the Knicks and they didn't have enough assets and he couldn't compete, which goes back to the basic premise of all of this, which is how do you balance making as much money as So I'm sure Dame was in the same situation. There's a little, oh man, poor Dame. He just deserves to be in a good spot. I think he's been in a pretty good it the last 12 years, that team's had four top eight finishes in the league, right? It's not like he's been on like the bad news bears. He made, they made the conference finals. They kind of, it was a little funky because Houston and gold state played in round two that year. But for the most part, like, you know, they, they've been pretty successful. It's just not successful by, no, you weren't as good as the LeBron teams in Cleveland and then the Lakers situation.

You weren't as good as the Warriors, right? You weren't as good as the LeBron Miami, but they weren't awful. And I don't see a trade other than the Miami trade, which I don't think is going to happen, that will propel him to some sort of, oh, now he's on the cusp, unless it's the Celtics. And that's why I'm... Now, Jalen Brown could sign for this extension in five minutes and this will be moot, but I just keep circling that trade wondering, it's starting to make more and more sense to me. Just hypothetically. But you mean Jalen for Lillard? I think there would have to be a third team. I think Jalen would have to go to Houston,

and then Houston would have to send stuff to Portland, and then Portland would send Dame to Boston. If he wants to win a title and it's not Miami, where else is it? What guarantees him to actually be close to being in the mix? You go through the teams and everybody either has their team already or they can't make the trade. So if he goes to Brooklyn and he's playing with Bridges and Cam Johnson and Nick Claxton, is that team going to win a title? He's basically where it was four years ago. So if I'm him, I'd almost rather stay and wait until there's a better situation than

just be like, trade me right now. And then I'm like on Brooklyn. Well, what am I going to do in Brooklyn? It just feels way more complicated. And it gets back to our conditioning. And it's like, oh, Daymont's out. He's just going to get his way, I guess. And it's like, well, is he? It's a little different.

This might be the time where somebody doesn't get their way. Because I think Portland probably looks at this and goes, wait, so we're supposed to accept Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson and Jovich and a 28 and 2030 first round pick and maybe a swap. And that's what we're getting. Like, why do we have to do that? I would rather keep Lillard.

And just tell him like, look, man, we're going to trade you over the course of the next seven months, but just come back. Let's figure out if there's a better trade down the road for us and for you and let's do it that way. But I'm not taking that Miami offer. Would you? No. 50 cents on the dollar. Why would I do that? Well, it's not even the 50 cent of the dollar because you're not getting a dollar for dollar. You're going to lose this trade no matter what you do. I actually think his market is a little less than maybe what it would be because they're talking about the small guards

that I know historically you've brought up all the time, like how well are they going to age? I mean, he's still a terrific player. I mean, he was incredible this year offensively until they kind of shut him down. So the cool thing is, I know he's had some injuries here or there, but for the most part, he plays.

But that $63 million number four years from now, I know Miami doesn't care. Like Miami would just go, hey, we add them. This is Bam, Butler, Lillard, you know, made it to the finals last year. Even though I still can't believe it. We'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll figure out the rest. We'll worry about the money later on.

The Brooklyn thing, like if you're not getting bridges, which is the way it works, hey, we'll take your player. But you don't get our best player, which is the way these trades always go. I don't really know what that means. Well, they've said, like, Bridges, we're not trading Bridges in a Dame trade. So, technically that means Bridges has more trade value than Dame, even though we know he doesn't. But for them... With the contracts?

But for them, it's a sideways move. It's like, cool, we lose Bridges, who really looked like an all-star player as soon as that trade happened. But you don't trade him. Teams don't trade. You have to take Brooklyn, take the Nets out of it. Bridges at this stage by himself, that contract, his age, how much better he

looked away from Phoenix and all that stuff is more of an option or priority offensively. That guy doesn't get traded in this deal for Dame. So the heat part of it, I know they don't care about the contract or anything and it makes sense, but Hero's money at $27 million a year going out a few more years, you know, the heat part of it, I know they don't care about the contract or anything, and it makes sense, but heroes money at 27 million a year going out a few more years, Duncan Robinson at 18 and then 19 and a half million. I mean, unless you absolutely fucking love Jovich, which I have a hard time believing you're like, okay, well, at least we get Jovich

in this thing. And then a couple firsts from a team that's usually pretty well run as we just learn more competitive than you'd even expect them to be. So what are those firsts going to be? So I just, if I'm Cronin, I'm'm like i at least need one thing that i feel really good about that's coming back so it may still well be miami the lessons that we've all learned in this league plenty of times too was when we're like that doesn't make any sense that couldn't happen and then it happens because the player does end up finding a way to get his way i just wonder what that third team thing i know you had a third teamer that i looked at went you know what i actually don't think that's looked at and went, you know what? I actually don't think that's terrible.

I don't know. You may have been on the trade machine all weekend, so I don't know if I'm confusing you by referencing it. But I thought you had a three-teamer there with Portland where Dame ends up on Miami. And I looked at it and was like, I don't think that's actually crazy. Yeah. Straight up the hero contract and that kind of stuff, just two teams. I don't know how that matches up. What's the urgency if you're Cronin?

What's what's hey, let me just do Miami this massive favor. But, you know, really, it's it would be an insane move. I mean, we didn't talk. There's another variable where Miami could throw in Lowry's expiring and take back Nerkich. Well, if I'm if I'm Portland and I'm trading Dame, I'm like, you got to take Nerkich. She's the tax for the Dame trade I'm like, you got to take Nerkich. He's the tax for the Dame trade. You just got to take him.

But that's where the Lowry stuff, that changes a lot. But when you start doing the salaries and trying to figure out a way to do Hero without Robinson, it gets really- Well, you can't get Dame. Yeah. It either has to be Robinson or Lowry. The three-teamer I had, it was Lillard going to Philly with Norm Powell and Batum. Portland getting Harris and Zubats and Mann and Maxey and a few picks.

And then the Clippers getting Harden and Nurkic. Since I posted that, and I don't know if Philly's posturing or not. And we've certainly learned not to believe Daryl on anything at this point, but Philly's like, we're not trading Maxie in a Dame trade. That's not happening. So if that's not happening, I think Philly's out. Dame has also allegedly said he didn't want to go to Philly. The Clippers also, since that trade, signed Russell Westbrook, which makes me wonder, do they want James Harden now? You want James Harden and Russell Westbrook together for the third time? We're doing that again with Kawhi and Paul George?

I don't see it. I was surprised they signed. And you and I argued last week about Westbrook. And I was like, I think it's going to be December. No, it was July 1st. He went back to the Clippers. I'm not surprised. I mean, it was such a low number. The most they could offer him on the first year of the new deal was like $3.8 million, and that's what it was. So I thought I was wrong on the money, but I don't know all the stuff that was out there. I don't know if there was another team that was going to go non-tax pay level. But did that make you think Harden's out for them now, though? Honestly, the Harden-Clipper stuff felt, and I don't have the source anywhere.

I feel like Harden's like, who will pay me? Who will pay me? Like we talked about him being from LA. Oh, you know, that makes sense. I think he looked around and his group looks around going, who's going to give me the contract that I thought I was getting in Philadelphia because I need my last three plus a player option

or team option or non-guaranteed fourth year. Like that's another thing we were really conditioned to. And I don't know if we're pivoting into this now, but the numbers were, well, Philly can go to four years, $210 million, but they can't go to the fifth year because of the over 38, which actually makes it very competitive for Houston at four years and $200 million without the state taxes, basically a wash

and all this kind of stuff. And Houston, a lot of it. Right, right. I go to the combine. I'm like, what are you hearing? What are you hearing? I had two different people be like, yep, Houston, Houston. And then I thought, okay, this is one of those times where you'll hear the

same rumor over and over again. And then I'll start going like, what are you hearing specifically? Not that I'm going to share, but what can you tell me that tells you specifically this is why Harden's going to Houston? And I think everybody just kept repeating the same stuff over and over. And not only did Philly not want to go to four years in 210, Houston didn't even want to do the deal. I think, I think Adoka changed the equation on that. By the way, with Harden,

we talked about the player empowerment error. How about the pair, the player unempowerment error or the player, the player error? Harden basically, how much money did he cost himself the last couple of years? He could add a huge extension in Houston. He could have had a huge extension in Houston. He could have had a huge extension in Brooklyn.

And he could have done the transfer port of thing and just been like, yeah, I'll sign the extension now and then force his way out nine months later, but didn't think to do that. And then took less in Philly too. $13 million less. $13 million less, but also he could have made more. Now he's going to make

$35 this year too. So instead of making, I don't know, $45 million a year those two years, he made $35 million. So he's cost himself at least $20 million and doesn't have the kicker of the last year of that deal too. So that's about as bad as you can play it. Not to mention, something didn't add up about the James left money on the table to sign PJ Tucker thing though I know I was never positive I believe that okay but think about that timeline of going back and you're like okay so wait Harden did what so all of us are immediately like okay what like he must have a wink and a handshake deal here I mean the point it got to the point where it was even being investigated well they got they got they got fine they lost like a second round pick, didn't they?

That was on the PJ Tucker thing. Because I went back, just to be sure, I went back and looked at it. Because there was a joke out there saying, well, I guess that investigation's over. It already had been over. Right. But the PJ Tucker piece was part of the

hard and taking less money piece. Right. But that was what they ended up losing the pick on. Yeah, yeah. Supposedly talking to him. That feels out related to me. All right. But, but when that deal happened, all of us are going, all right, well, if he gave up the 13, then there may be going to just make it up to him and then add on the extra year. Right. And it was funny too, because then Harden at one point was like, yeah, I never got, I didn't get enough coverage of like how much credit I

should get. Everybody's kind of like, whatever, dude. dude um but he had brought it up like I didn't get any credit for taking that much less and adding to the pj deal which is a crazy deal in itself because how old he's going to be in the last year that player option here's what I don't know like and again I don't know but I'm guessing the Maury Harden relationship I can't imagine I think Maury's ruthless in a good way you know I think when you think about him as a GM, and I know you want to talk about some of the recent history, which isn't great, but I think the overall approach, the way he sees building the roster

and working with guys, he doesn't screw around. And having known that about his past, I can't believe that he or ownership would tell Harden something and then do the exact opposite. Would they look at this past year and go, you know what? You're a declining version. You look scared again at the end of the playoffs.

Maybe it's the owner buying a football team going, maybe I don't want to do 200 million for this guy. I just wonder- You're missing a huge piece. Well, I'm just, go ahead. No, you listed all good things, but you missed the Embiid piece of this. Like to me, this is Embiid. Saying I don't want to be attached to him for four more years, that number. If you were Joel Embiid,

would you want to be attached to James Harden? I'm Ryan Russillo and I wouldn't want to. Let's take a break. We'll talk Philly stuff too. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know know me i can't go a day without sports i really can't and now monday nights are all about hockey that's right there's a new exclusive home for streaming monday night nhl hockey and it's on prime all season long watch prime monday night hockey deliver unreal plays the biggest goals can't miss moments

matthews mcdavid crosby the nhl's best they're all on prime prime monday night hockey it's on monday it's on prime so who knows what to believe on the philly harden all this stuff i did a thing on my thursday pod about how daryl has been very, very consistent over the years about his two-star theory. They've been consistent that Maxie they feel like is a star. And I guess my question is, do they feel like they're actually going to be better off building around Embiid and Maxie to keep Embiid and getting a whole bunch of stuff for Harden? There's a version of that Clippers trade where it was Powell and Terrence Mann and an expiring for Harden where I was like, I don't know. I actually kind of like that trade.

I like Norm Powell. And then Ramona was on TV the other day saying this weird that clearly came from Darryl of Philly wants to preserve two max spots next summer. So I was like, hmm, that's interesting. I didn't feel like there were a lot of great free agents kind of looming next summer. It's basically Siakam and DeJounte Murray, and then it dips. And I just find it hard to believe Clay Thompson, Gordon Hayward, Buddy Heald, it dips fast.

So you're telling me everything they're planning now is to preserve two max spots? Thompson, Gordon Hayward, Buddy Heald. Like it dips fast. So you're telling me everything they're planning now is to preserve two max spots. I don't believe it. I think they're up to something with a Harden trade. And I think they want to build around Embiid and Maxie and whatever they get for Harden, PJ Tucker, maybe work around the fringes. A lot of guys have been snapped up by different teams,

including Eric Gordon today, which got a gas for me that the Suns got him. We'll talk about that later. But I think they're on the Embiid clock, not the Harden clock is my point. Because I think the next domino is Embiid just going, you know what? It's been fun guys, but I'd like to go to the Knicks or the Lakers. And those are my two choices. And I think they're on the clock with that. They just are. And if you look at the Knicks,

all they did was use their mid-level on DiFincenzo. They got rid of Toppin. We'll talk about that later too. I didn't fully understand that, but it just seems like they're kind of poised to still do something. And I think everybody feels like all this shit is related. Dame, Harden, and Bede. They're kind of all interrelated in a weird way, even though they might all this shit is related. Dame, Harden, Embiid. They're kind of all interrelated in a weird way,

even though they might all go to different teams. It's a great point, and you're right. I mean, you'd be naive to think that you're not on the Embiid clock because it's just the way the league works. I mean, you'd have to think that Embiid loves Philadelphia so much and that they've had his back, and maybe that is the trump card that he's like, you know what, I'm good here,

but none of these guys like doing it on their own, and there's not one person. There's not one person that thinks four years or 200 million or, you know, if you want to get cute with that fourth year that it makes any sense for Harden at this stage, because you also start asking yourself, like, how's this guy going to age? Like, everybody knows the deal with him. He doesn't put in the work. Honestly, I'm rooting for him to stay because I want to see him play like he did for the

Nets against Sacramento in Philly. I want to see it. You want to see it one more time? Yeah. That was your favorite. I remember you were texting me that night. You're like, I can't believe what is going on with Harden. I watched the game. I watched it the other day. You have it on DVD. Like when I watch Heat with Pacino and De Niro, you're watching the Harden-Sacramento game and I had a guest over that was like hey do you want to record this movie and I was like do not delete that don't don't let me make sure the settings are up to date on that uh you know the Embiid the Embiid points a great point and you're right like I like Norman Powell so much like you start to go like wait if you get Norman Powell and Terrence Mann like I guess you would say like

no way you got to do better than that for Harden. I don't know that I want his number on there, but it's like, yeah, what, what is it then? What's for Covington? But either way,

it's an expiring that they could flip into something else, you know? And I, I just, you know, I thought that some of the stuff doc said about Harden read between the lines stuff on the pod that I did with him, I thought was really interesting.

The fact that your favorite part. Yeah. Remind us. Well, read between the lines stuff on the pod that I did with him, I thought was really interesting. What was your favorite part? Yeah. Remind us. Well, he talked about how they were the best team in the league for a couple months playing a certain way. And then he's like, no,

well, this is what Doc's saying. And then he's like, and then we kind of started to change how we were playing. It's like, well, what does that mean? And it was because Harden couldn't sustain like the, I'm the unselfish James Harden point

guard and I'm just going to fill in the blanks thing, which he was really good at. I thought he was one of the best 15 players in the league. And like, you know, we were talking about all NBA and all that stuff in February. And I was like, I probably would have Harden on there at this point. Yeah. Suri, right. He said it was challenging to coach him, was the quote. Challenging is tough.

And look, for them to say they were the best team, I'm sure statistically there's a stretch there that they were really good. There was like a three-month stretch where they had the best record. It's fair. You know, whether it's the bad bet on the way Harden takes care of himself, and again, I don't even think it's like necessarily bad stuff. I just, the way it's been bad bet on the way Harden takes care of himself. And again, I don't even think it's necessarily bad stuff. I just, the way it's been explained to me is that guys would work with him and be like, hey man, you're getting older.

Do you realize? And then Harden would essentially, and again, I'm not quoting here, but the understanding was kind of like, look how good I am now. And I don't have to do any of that workout shit. I don't have to do any of that workout shit. Like, I don't have to do any of that stuff. So then you're like, well, wait a minute. At some point, you have to make that decision. At some point, you have to make that commitment.

And so in a way, he's put himself in this spot. But you're right. Like the MB thing may be the most important thing. I have no idea what was said. Clearly, as soon as we saw the trade request. The guy was the MVP. He averaged 33 a game last year, and it feels like he's going to ask for a trade pretty soon.

I think, you know, my focus is on it. I'll say that. There's also another lesson in this, too. When you talk to teams and you go like, hey, how come you did that? Or, you know, what's the story with this? And it's like, you got to keep these guys happy man

like what's the point if the and i'm not like even getting the specifics but like just little things be like oh you let that guy do that huh it's like yep you're gonna make sure these guys are happy all the time because you never know when that train request is coming and you want to do everything you can to prevent it and look at poor daryl you know has had hardens back tweeting like zion's x about harden during the mvp race okay meets him at the tarmac i mean like a picture straight from the notebook right has his back the entire time and then as soon as harden doesn't like the offer he's like i'm out so there might be a lesson in there that you can do whatever you want but once these guys decide they're going to bail it's the third time he's asked for a trade

request and what multiple seasons so um you don't know if he's going to find i like i don't know if he's going to find that pot of gold it's funny how daryl who rose to prominence looking at everything coldly and analytically you you know, in a totally different way than most people did. And Harden turned out to be his Achilles heel. He just fucking loved the guy. And you look at, look at all the stuff, even the last couple of years with Houston and then to Philly, he just pushed all his chips in the Harden table, which is a table that I don't think you and I would have pushed the chips in on,. But just multiple times here, the Chris Paul trade, when Harden's like, I don't want to play with Chris Paul anymore.

And they do that Westbrook-Chris Paul trade, which they haven't, Houston hasn't even started paying off those picks yet. And then you look at the Simmons trade, how that ended up. I was looking back. And by the way, it's a great point. It's just a great point. That should have been one of the other things I mentioned. We don't know this, but I think we know it. Russell Westbrook is the antithesis of what Daryl Morey would want in a basketball player on

his team. Yes. And to move those assets for him. That is a, I'm doing this for James because I want to keep James happy. It's bad. So he takes over after the pandemic season. Philly got swept by Boston and their assets were Embiid and Simmons and Tobias Harris and Tybalt. They had all their first round picks. That year, Daryl took over and the draft was like a month later

and they drafted Maxie and Isaiah Joe and Paul Reed and he traded Josh Richardson for Seth Curry. And that set up the team that blew the playoff series against Atlanta. But his last seven major moves for them, he dumped Horford during that season, the 2021 season, because he wanted to get Danny Green. He wanted to get Horford's contract off. He also put in the rights to that kid that OKC just brought over.

How do you say his name? Misich? Yeah. The point guard. Did I say that right? Yeah. I don't know. Misich?

I don't mind that either. Everybody likes him. And a top six protected 2025 pick with Horford. So they're attaching two real assets with Horford to bring Danny Green back. Traded Danny Green within a year for D'Anthony Melton. By the way, that's a good trade. No, yeah.

Traded Simmons, Curry, and two firsts for James Harden. Drafted Jaden Springer. Gave PJ three years, 33. Waved Isaiah Joe, which I think, I like Isaiah Joe. I think that was a tough one and traded Ty Bull for Jalen McDaniels, who's no longer on the team. But now where they are, they're missing three first round picks. They turned Simmons into Harden, who now wants to leave.

Harris is on an expiring and it just feels like that window closed. I was trying to think like, man, what was like the terrible move other than not getting Hal Burton and healed for Simmons, which I think was the best basketball move you could have made. Other than that, most of the stuff's pretty

defensible. Like getting the Horford thing, he didn't sign Horford and had to get rid of that contract. He couldn't play with Embiid. They had to fix it. But he also didn't have the good move either. And that's what's been different about this run with Darrell than some of the other ones. There's no move you can look at and go, oh yeah, well, you got to give him credit for that awesome move. Really, Seth Curry was the best one. So I just don't think he's, I can't say the, the Maury legacy has been enhanced that much by this Philly run,

at least so far. I'm actually going to push back a little, just because I think this, I just think the Simmons part of it, you know, there's a time there. I just, I want to stay consistent on it.

There's a time there. It's like, you got this guy and you're turning down the bad offers for him, right? Most GMs would have given in and been like, this is untenable, I can't do this. Yeah, I agree with you on this. He waited, he's patient. It's also put in Portland to the test, and who knows?

Maybe it's going to put Philly to the test and Maury again with Harden here. Again, that one's a little different because he's only in on the player option. So there was a time when Philly was rolling. And, you know, look, man, it's funny because I was even telling myself, like, there's not really much left for you to say about Harden than this week happens.

I think we've covered it all. And then I was like, well, actually, we're going to bring them all out again. As bad as that start of Game 7 was where I was like, uh-oh, here we go again. You know, it's a seven-game series. Maybe if Tatum doesn't go crazy, they get to the Eastern Conference Finals. Oh, I like this. What a zag this is. I know, but is Embiid too much for Miami?

Are they in the NBA Finals? Is there a what-if scenario where they were close enough, where they go deeper in the playoffs? And as much as again i don't trust harden this is well documented he got harden for somebody who wasn't gonna play and he waited it out long enough where when harden did come over like i just remember when they were rolling going you know what man i don't know how many gms would have had that patience or would have had ownership being on the same page i mean like this dude isn't playing like let's go. We can't keep... Sometimes teams will give in to moves just because it's like,

ah, we just needed to turn the page on it. And Daryl didn't. And as bad as the Harden part of it looks now, it was good enough to keep that team in a competitive mix where I think a lesser GM pulls the plug on it and maybe takes less of a package back. Certainly lesser than whatever you think Harden was this last year. I would rather have Hal Burton and healed and kept Curry and kept my picks. And I said that at the time, I just thought that I just valued that more than Harden. Well, I can't argue against that because of what Hal Burton has turned into.

You're right. I just, I think it's very easy to kind of package the Simmons-Hardin thing today in a way that's completely opposite of the praise that I thought he deserved. I think that's fair. Yeah. But honestly, when you think about it, you're like, wait a minute, what's the positive part about Simmons now? It's just a negative about what Hardin would be. And if you're Balmer, by the way, say it is Powell, say it it's man and you're like okay fine and not even

the westbrook thing i think that was just cheap and they liked him knowing the other guys are going to get hurt and when westbrook's allowed to just be the primary guys we saw in the playoffs like he's going to put up numbers yeah but like i know they're all in because of the picks they moved and because of the building you've been really good on that. I just wonder if Ballmer and Lawrence Frank go like, actually, no. And then what if he doesn't get his contract extension? Because he's opting in, obviously, to make it more feasible for him to go somewhere that he wants to go because the free agency money wasn't going to be there for him.

What if you trade for him, but you're like, you know what? We're going to see how this year goes. What version are you going to get? How about if you gave him two years on top of the player option, you know, make it like a hundred million dollar deal, right. With the, with the player option for this year and considering his track history, like what are you actually buying? Cause what if, what if Kawhi and Paul George are gone, right? What if they go, you know what? We actually don't want to extend you guys. You got hurt again this year. You know what I mean? And then Harden's like, actually, I don't want to be here guys you got hurt again this year you know what i mean and then harden's like actually i don't want to be here like he has hurt his price

he may not like the philly stuff philly could have been misled i don't know so i don't want to accuse anybody of anything it's clear that what he thought he heard a year ago to what he got hurt you know to what he was offered this week there was a disconnect for him to go ahead and ask for this trade but he's also greatly diminished his own value with the way he's taking care of himself and the fact that he will burn you when he's not getting what he wants. And he's been incredibly erratic now for four years. That'd be the other reason not to trade for him. It's like, well, he was unhappy in Houston. They gave him everything he wanted that whole decade. He went to Brooklyn. He immediately became unhappy there within a year.

And then he went to Philly and now he's unhappy and wants out again. So what would make me think the Clippers are going to be the one that solves this? It just feels like a classic stupid Clipper trade. I agree with you. But if it was just Norm Powell and two expirings, I would do it. I would roll the dice on it. If it was Mann and Powell and an expiring, now I'm a little more nervous about it because, you know, make a case Kawhi and Paul George if they're healthy. I like the KJ Martin signing. That was fun. It's like, I kind of like the team they have if everyone's healthy.

And I don't know if I want to introduce Harden into it, especially if you brought Westbrook back. So if I could get him at a discount, sure. I love Norman Powell. I do too. I love that guy. And by the way, I love the KJ pickup. I can't believe you just brought that up.

It was one of my favorite ones. I actually made me mad. I'm like, what the hell? How is two second routers? I was on a thread today with somebody about, could the Celtics turn Brogdon and Norman Powell? And it was on the trade machine. It's like, oh, they'd have to throw in a mere coffee. And I was like, I just like Norman Powell. He's the kind of guy I've always

wanted the Celtics to have in a playoff series where it's like, nobody can make a shot. And Norman Powell comes in and just scores 18 points in the second quarter. I like those guys. So quickly on Halliburton, I came up with all the what-if teams for Halliburton because he signed for 5-2-60 today. And we did the draft before when I was making the case for Golden State to take him. That is now a YouTube short that somebody did that has 70,000 views with you and I. I'll send it to you. It's a good number. And you coming back and being like, I don't know, man. Like we were talking about for Golden State.

I was like, this has a chance to be a worthy in 1982 like asset for them, right? They have a chance if they nail this pick. And I was just like, I like Halbern. So Golden State, they could have taken him at two or traded back a couple spots. I'm sure they regret that. Detroit takes Killian Hayes over him at seven. The Knicks take Obi Toppin over him at eight, and they didn't have a point guard. That's where it gets tough.

Wizards, they take Denny at nine. And then Phoenix, we talked about many times, they take Jalen Smith at 10 instead of Halbert. And if they take Halbert, I think they win the 21 title. I really do. San Antonio takes Vassell at 11 over him. Eh, whatever. Boston sitting there at 14, could have traded up for him, didn't do anything. And then Philly could have flipped Simmons for Hal Burton and healed. So that's eight teams that just look at Hal Burton now, and they're just like, man, we're sitting right there. We liked them in the draft. Plus it was the pandemic draft where we just had months and months to stare at the YouTube clips. The advanced metrics were great

with him that he could play off the ball or have the ball. And it's just, it's kind of crazy. That's over a fourth of the league, Rosillo. They kind of missed on him. Here's where you push back. I just don't think it was realistic Golden State was going to take Halliburton number two in that draft. Could they have gone back four spots and dumped a small contract or something?

Now you're just saying, yes, all of these things could have happened, but it's really easy to look at Wiseman and some of the dudes later on and go, what were you thinking? I think your Phoenix, because you were on the Phoenix thing, I think, more than any of those. Yeah, I was horrified. I couldn't believe they didn't take him,

especially with Chris getting older. That was a, what are you doing? Halliburton would have been the perfect player for Chris Paul. Because the greatest thing about him was that he just saw the game differently than other guys when you watch him in college.

But then he could just, he just fits in in all these different ways. And you're right. They, I don't know. I mean, Giannis went fucking crazy.

So just to, all of a sudden, pencil in an L next to Milwaukee seems to be a bit presumptive. Well, but think though, those four wins, I think three of them came down to like two plays.

So I think like if you just have Halliburton in that series, that's that swing, that seesaw tiny bit. Let's take a break. And then a couple more Dame things I want to hit. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring,

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So we didn't talk about this piece. San Antonio. There was a crafted tweet about how they, who said it was one of the reporters about how Dame had always had this respect for San Antonio, a deep respect, deep respect. That's beyond Antonio, a deep respect. Deep respect. That's beyond just respect.

Deep respect. You think any of that's real? Where did that come from? That threw me for a loop. They certainly had the assets to go after him and suddenly become an intriguing 23-24 team if Wemba Nyama's defense is at least where we think it's going to be.

I think we're both a little wait and see with the offense. But the defense, I think, could be pretty special. Do you believe that one? Because I had trouble believing that one. Why would he want to go there and be part of a rebuilding thing? Unless you think,

as good as Wemba Nyama is going to be, I just think offensively, there's going to be some rough patches here early on, I would think. Unless, I mean, I don't know. I mean, he's going to come right in and score 20. I think that's... Right. You're in the finals next year with him, probably. Yeah, right. So, I mean, maybe he scores 20 because there's enough shots for him there with Kelden and Vassell. But I'm looking at it. I'm like, well, if they're not including Kelden Johnson, the McDermott contract... I think Kelden Johnson would have to looking at it. I'm like, well, if they're not including Kelton Johnson, the McDermott contract.

I think Kelton Johnson would have to be in it. Yeah. I mean, that makes a little bit of sense there because then you go, all right, well, at least we're getting a young guy that you kind of like. And I like Kelton, but I also wonder, was he the lead guy in a tanking team?

So how good is he really going to be? But if you're Portland, you go, hey, who's the best young guy that we can get back that we actually want? We don't hate his contract. Can you do better than him? You might not be able to do that much better than him. I guess I was just a little surprised that does Dane think that he would roll into San Antonio with what the worst of that roster is next year and start competing? Would he be patient enough to be like, all right, let's see how another year goes? So it felt like the way these two things are aligned,

they just don't seem aligned. What San Antonio is going to be doing the next couple of years and what Dame is hoping to do before he's done. I'm with you. I was a little surprised by that. If we're just talking about teams where he could go and have a real chance to win the title, other than Miami and Boston,

and even Philly, like I don't know if it's just him and Embiid and basically a below average supporting cast. I'm not positive that works either. Minnesota was pretty intriguing to me. And I don't even know if I'd go there, if he'd go there, but if it was towns and, you know, I don't even know what else they have to offer at this point, but towns and even just towns for Dame, probably not enough. But I was just trying to think if you had Gobert and Edwards and you kept slow-mo and you kept McDaniels and you had Dame, like that is a team that I think could compete in a real way. Yeah.

Cause even whatever I think about Minnesota now, I'd expect them to compete next year. Damon Edwards is like, holy shit, this is going to be a tough game for us tonight. Yeah, and I think it solves the inevitable talents problem that you're going to have. And I don't know if Minnesota, I mean, look, I know what they would say.

Minnesota would argue, hey, our guy's younger, and despite some of the flaws, this dude puts up crazy numbers and he's one of the best shooting bigs. And he's not 63 million four years from now. So you've got to give us something. You've got to give us a sweetener. And Portland's going, your guy isn't even close to being the same guy as our guy.

And then we'd have to re-sign him anyway. We already know what all the different arguments would be. But I don't think it'd be like one side is overwhelming the other one with sweetener on top of one of those two players, right? Or maybe you have the, I keep throwing in Houston because Houston seems to me, they have all these young assets that aren't ready to play yet. And they also signed Fred Van Vliet, Dylan Brooks. So I'm like, does this team, are they trying to be good right now? And if they're trying to be good right now, maybe they'd want towns and maybe they'd give all the assets to Portland and then Dame goes to Minnesota.

I can't wait to talk about Houston. I think we save Houston for part two. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. But like, imagine them going like, hey, look, we can't do this deal now, but like Dylan Brooks has been here 48 hours and he hasn't played any games.

There's no games, but he was picking up garbage the other day, which I don't know if you'd read that Anthony Richardson did that, Colts quarterback. So that's a huge sign of future success if you pick up garbage at an event after everybody leaves. So I just don't – when I saw the Houston stuff and when some of those contracts became eligible to even be traded.

But look, it kind of just gets back to the point that we started an hour ago. If these are the offers and I'm Portland... You're waiting. I just don't know. You have to wait until December, January. And then you go like,

well, what's the downside to it? Oh, Dame isn't happy? I think the cool thing about Dame, and it's kind of the Durant thing, where when you have Durant on your team and you're Brooklyn and you're like, all right, this guy wants everybody fired right after he got the extension and he wants all this stuff to work out. It's like, well, guess what he loves to do? He loves playing basketball. Yeah. Let's use that against him.

Yeah. I think Lillard's probably more on that line. I think of the bigger city teams, the irony of like OKC, Utah, New Orleans, who have all these assets, but it's really hard to lure a guy like Dame, who's in a smaller market, to be like, come to our small market instead. I think Brooklyn, at least with all the Phoenix firsts and the swap they have and the Dallas pick and the Philly picks, they have the assets to pull something. They have Dinwiddie. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I still feel like

Simmons is at least intriguing if I'm a rebuilding team. Like Portland to me is perfect. Portland is perfect. Just put him there with Scoot

in the middle of nowhere and at worst case, there is an expiring contract in a year. But, you know, as we covered earlier, I'm still not sure

where that gets me if I'm Brooklyn ultimately. At least I have a, I'm still not sure where that gets me if I'm Brooklyn, ultimately. At least now I have Dame and Bridges and Cam Johnson, and I have a poster for the subway. When people run the subway, it's like, Nets, it's a new era, the new big three, whatever. At least I have that. Dame is somebody that I do think people would go to see in the New York area. They don't have a person like that now. So I can kind of talk myself have that. Dame is somebody that I do think people would go to see in the New York area. They don't have a person like that now. Right.

So I can kind of talk myself into that. I just don't know if I'm Dame. Am I in a better spot? I like that you brought up those other teams because you feel like Utah with all the future picks, because that's probably what Portland is going to end up doing. Utah is the most. If Utah is like, we'd like Dame Lillard and it's like, what's it going to take? They have the most to offer. Because it's picks.

They're basically the real estate buyer from Russia who just is paying all cash and they're not even, you don't even have to, they don't even need the inspection. They're just like, here's a suitcase. That's Utah. Did you sell a house to a Russian recently?

That seemed kind of specific. I don't know. I was just making a joke. Utah has all those picks, plus a couple of young assets. They can throw Sexton in there. They can make basically, they have a Linux expiring. They can make anything work. But with Dame Lower, it'd be like, cool, I'm going from Portland to Utah.

And then where am I going? I have to imagine that he's like, I'd like to go to one of the big cities now. Right. This time around. But all the big cities kind of have their guys already. Like the Lakers and the Clippers,

they're kind of set. The Knicks, Brunson's the most popular Knick in 15 years. They're not going to get Dame. Miami doesn't have enough. So that list goes down pretty fast. The Orlando Magic. Are Palo and Franz ready to be the big three with Dame?

I'm sure Orlando would be like, hey, if he wants to come here, he can put something together. But I can't imagine that he's – I think the Miami thing is the trust in them, having the best coach, seeing what they just did without him, how great they are on the margins with all these other players, which you don't expect that to just kind of run its course. But I also think I'd be like afraid of signing some of their guys away from them with the Struess money. And look, they gave Vincent deals a really good deal for the Lakers with that kind of price. So I tried all morning. I tried all morning and I kept looking

at stuff and I was trying to be realistic. And I was like, I can't tell if this is going to be one of the classic NBA lessons where you go, oh, I guess they just did it. Like, why did I put any time into this? Like he just got his way, right? Or if it's going to be one of the rare times with the more recent developments of players having this much time left on their contract going, oh, I don't care. This isn't the year left thing. This isn't the lame duck situation. The money's mine. All that money is mine. And now I'd like to go somewhere else and I don't care. And some GMs would give in. And, you know, that's why I kind of defend Darrell a little bit in the past because I thought what he did with Simmons in a really tough spot.

But I don't know. In a weird way, am I rooting for that? Am I rooting for some teams just to start going, no, sorry. No, we're not giving you away. Sorry, dude. If you're a Blazer fan, wouldn't you be like,

hey, man, we actually have a really nice young foundation now. If you're going to trade Dame Lillard, can you actually get real value back for him? Like, do we have to give him away to, you know, thanks for everything Dame for the last 11, 12 years. But if it's okay with you, can I not get 30 cents in the dollar for our best asset? Is that cool? Can we get a real trade back for you? Thanks. That's how I would feel if I was a Blazer fan. That's why I always loved the Kobe to Chicago one so much because they were like, all right, I guess it'd be like Luol and then whatever. And then Kobe was like, no.

Like I want. Yeah, I need those guys on my team. Yeah. I don't want you to trade, you know, because it's some of these gets so out of control where it's, okay, I want the max deal. Oh, and by the way, now I want to be traded, but don't trade any of the good players because I want them there too when I go so I can have a chance to compete and get back to me by the end of the week. And you're just like, what? Well, that's why with Phoenix,

putting Cam and Bridges in the trade is kind of nuts in retrospect. The desperation they had to get that deal done, I still don't fully understand it. Especially too when Ramona had the piece after the fact that was like they wanted to make sure it didn't turn into a bidding war. Guess what? If Duran is telling me, who by the way said I should be fired this summer, going back a year, and then has the extension and then decides, actually, I'm out of here too after Kyrie makes his trade demand,

I'm shopping that around. But I don't know how much better you do than Bridges and then all those picks. I made up a trade. I'm going to read it to you right now that involves, and again, Jalen Brown. So Rudy, please keep checking Twitter to make sure Jalen Brown didn't sign the extension. But let's say Dame goes to make sure Jalen Brown didn't sign the extension. But let's say Dame goes to Boston and Jalen goes to Houston. And now if I'm Portland and I have my pick of Houston assets, Russillo, would you rather have Jalen Green or Jabari Smith? Jabari Smith.

Okay. Would you rather have Cam Whitmore or Eason? I've got to tell you, and by the way, going back to last week, I feel like it got played a little bit more that it was about the background stuff. It was the knee, which I tried to emphasize last week. Yeah.

Cam Whitmore dropped more because of the knee, even though I added more context to it, which kind of turned into something that was beyond. But look, I think I'd like Tari Eason better, even though he's not the player Cam Whitmore is. It's just there's enough teams out there that were like, you know, worried about the injuries. So you agree?

Really? Really? I'm surprised. No, I like Eason. I agree about the injuries. So you agree. Really? Really? I'm surprised. I think I like Eason. I think he's good. So I think Eason's one of those guys like I had a harder time with at LSU. But now when I watch him in the process, just throw him out there and watch him

do stuff. He gives a shit. Jabari Eason, Porter's contract, which seems prohibitive, but it's really a one year deal. And you can get out of it after next season. Malcolm Brogdon, who they can flip if they want,

and a couple of those Brooklyn picks that Houston has. And if I'm Portland, that's a pretty good trade. And I'm getting Jabari Smith and Eason and some picks, and I can flip Brogdon into something else. And I think I would rather do that than anything Miami has to offer. Now, Jalen might sign his extension two minutes from now, but I'm just a little suspicious it hasn't happened yet. Anyway, my point is there's way better stuff out there,

and it's also a trade. Like, who knows? When we get to December, January, who knows who's going to be desperate. They think, I don't know. I just would not trade them now. Last question before we wrap up part one, and then we're going to go in part two, we'll go through a lot of like the winners and losers stuff.

Who are the tank teams this season for you? Because the league now is in this weird spot, especially in the West where basically everybody's good except for two teams. And in the East, there's a lot of teams feeling good about themselves.

So if you're just going to say, who's probably going to suck this season? I had Charlotte. Maybe Portland if they do a Dame trade. Houston if they're a year away, San Antonio, maybe, Orlando, maybe, Toronto, maybe,

and Washington, probably. So I'll give you Charlotte, definitely, Washington, probably, and then Portland, Houston, San Antonio, Orlando, Toronto as our conceivable bottom seven. And maybe Chicago's in there too. I don't know, but I, those teams have a lot of talent. It's just weird. I think the lower class this season

is going to be a little better than usual. And now you said the draft isn't that good next year, right? And people are like kind of down on it. Uh, people are, people have been down on it for two years. So we're one year away. I think this happens a lot. I've said this before. You're removed from a draft. Everybody starts saying these guys suck. And then they're focused on only watching them. You get a little bit

closer. You start talking yourself into a players. But this 24 feels like in its own tier of people were already mapping out. They were hoping maybe if they were going to change the age restriction entry level thing, which appeared that silver was more into than anybody else was. So once you didn't have never end up doing that.

Yeah. Right. Remember we were talking about like, are we going to get a double year there where all of a sudden teams are going to be trying to line up and get their picks there. I also think it's like, when you look at all these teams that had these picks, people weren't going like,

well, let me just flip this first and do a next year first because people already knew how much they didn't want so you're right like these younger teams whether it's houston whether it's orlando detroit getting their backcourt back um you know even san antonio oh i should add detroit in there that's a mistake detroit is the eighth team right but they have now been spending three years these teams adding really nice talent to them. And that's why I thought even I did this segment this year where I'm like, I like watching the bad teams this year

because I like the talent. And so these teams try really hard. I mean, Orlando was 34 and 44 before they lost the last four games of the regular season. I don't know that I'd be shocked if Paolo's as good as I think he's going to be that they're flirting with 500. And they added two lottery picks. Yeah, and Detroit's getting Cade back.

And they did take the Thompson twin. It might not be ready yet. So maybe it's Charlotte and Detroit as the definites. And then there has to be two West teams. Well, tanking and losing are two different things. Somebody's got to lose, yeah. But then when you get like six weeks left, all of a sudden you're like fuck it, let's tank like Portland did last year.

Right. Nobody tanks in December. The bottom is as competitive as I can ever remember it. And I kind of felt that way about the handful of, you know, the bad teams again that picked at the top of the lottery. There's just a lot of talent on those teams that I really

like. We can get to the Houston free agent signings here, but you throw an aim into that of what the best version of him could be with his athleticism and the playmaking. And then Jalen on the right night looks like something special. I don't know how he's going to fit in all this new stuff. There's some stuff from Jabari if they actually let him kind of initiate a few more possessions on his own, but that's on him to become a better ball

handler and all that kind of stuff. And then we haven't even mentioned Shingun. They're all these teams like Durin on top of the guys that the Pistons have and their lottery pick. How about Charlotte with Hayward in a contract year and Lomelo and if Miller's good right away and they have Rogier and then

P.J. Washington, it's like not a bad team. They might have been like an eight seed in 2010. Well, and they brought Bridges back too on the one year. Right, right. And then, so I look at a team like Washington who refashioned themselves and have, basically has a lot of different tradable assets. If they want it to be bad, they could be bad,

but they could also kind of hang around. So I feel like- I don't know about that. I think they're going to be bad, they could be bad, but they could also kind of hang around. So I don't know. I don't know about that. I think they're going to be pretty bad, but I mean, they could hang around for a couple of months and at least get a sniff. And there's some theory. Well,

there's some viewing theory potential with Beal that can't be overrated. By the way, perk was doing you and I love the good team, good stats, bad team guys. And perk who was really against the Porzingis trade, which I was surprised by, but was talking about how he put up these big stats,

but they didn't matter. There are these games that didn't matter. I am in the, on the good stats, bad team police. I'd like to feel like I, I got a badge and there was a charity dinner for me. And like,

I've been on that, I've been on that beat for 25 years. I thought little mice just churned the butter. I thought Porzingis had good games against really good teams. Like he killed the Celtics last year. He would, he wasn't putting up cheap stats is my point. I don't know if I would use the good stats, bad team argument with him. I don't know what happened to him in Dallas with Luca. If you're going to hang Porzingis on anything, it's like, what the hell happened in Dallas? And the

injury stuff over and over again. But I thought he was really good last year. And House, who was predisposed to being like, this is a disaster, was like, this guy's fucking good. He's winning games for us. So I didn't buy the good stats, bad team argument with him. It was clearly

the best year he's had. Okay. Yeah. He's missed a million games. So I liked it because I thought they needed to be different. I think Perk's biggest thing was taking Marcus Smart's personality, the emotional side away from Boston. So I got that part of it. Let me just say, I liked the Przingis deal a lot better when it was one year.

But to throw him the extra $60 million to make this $100 million investment with his injury track record, and the Celtics have gotten really lucky with it. Horford last year was a miracle. To expect that to happen again is, I think, unlikely. Brogdon totally worked out, had a great season, got hurt at the end, obviously at the wrong time. But to then throw Porzingis into it too. My intel was, I think they were tired

of having a broken offense, basically in every playoff series, that as the series went along, the smart teams could just strangle. And it was just too many series. They were tired of it, and they needed to change it. And you can't blame smart solely for it,

but I just think they wanted different players and players that people had to guard. Yeah, but Porzingis, look, since 17-18 games here, he played 48, he missed all of 18-19. In 20, which is a 75-game season, he played 57, so that's pretty good. In 21, he played 43 games. In 22, he played 51.

Last year, he played 65. His usage rate with washington's basically around 28 they benched him like the last eight for tanking though i think he was healthy last year okay so you got me there yeah i'll give you that one point sevens the usage rate was hovering like just south of 30 which is like a number one option, big time guy. The true shooting percentage was in the low 60s, which is, you could argue, a bit of an anomaly for him.

Let's just say maybe outlier. I don't know, man. I test wise, he was kind of killing it. Look, I'm not telling you he's bad. He's not. My point is, I don't think he's a good stats, bad team guy.

I think he's more, I hope he stays healthy guy. I would put him in that camp. But clearly they had to have some kind of understanding to be like, can we do this deal if you opt in? And then it's like, okay, and what's the other part? And that's the 60 million. It's like what you said two podcasts ago,

where you were like, a guy like Porzingis is going to want more years because he's got an injury history. Listen. It's Middleton. It's Middleton. Like, why would Middleton opt out of 40 million? Well, because he knew he was going to get want more years because he's got an injury history. Listen. It's Middleton. It's Middleton. Why would Middleton opt out of $40 million? Well, because he knew he was going to get two more years tacked on.

It's less average annual, but now he's got $100 million in the bank. Yeah. Or it's what? What was Middleton? $120? But my thing is- Or $90? Sorry.

So this year you throw away because you need it for this year anyway. Next year is the X factor year, and then the last year, worst case scenario, you're expiring. So you still like it. You still like Przingis. I do. I do. I like the trade and I think they had to do something with Smart and they got picks and I like Jordan Walsh. I like that they had this gold

state pick. I think it gives them more flexibility and I hope they bring back Grant. I really hope that they match whatever Grant offers out there and I think he's looking at a mid-level market. By the way, Middleton, it was three for 102, but it was a player option.

I just want to make sure I had it right after the game. Screw up. We're going to jump off. Kyle's going to put this up and we're going to start taping part two, which is going to go up a couple hours after people hear this one. Produced by Kyle Creighton, as always. Steve Cerruti here as well. Russillo, I will start taping part two, which is going to go up a couple of hours after people hear this one. Produced by Kyle Creighton, as always.

Steve Cerruti here as well. Russillo, I will see you for part two. I feel it twisting On the wayside I'm a bruised soul I never was And I don't have to be