The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: Harden Does It Again, Boston’s Issues, and LeBron’s Genius With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

In Part 1 of a two-part podcast, the Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to break down the Sixers’ Game 4 overtime win against the Celtics, including the terrible decisions Boston made down the stretch, the credit James Harden deserves for carrying Philly, and the Celtics’ Marcus Smart problem (0:51). Then, they chat about the current landscape of NBA studio shows and what fans want from them, before getting into how incredible LeBron's been at managing what he has left in the tank at age 38 (46:01). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up next, part one of the Sunday NBA extravaganza. I'm in a bad mood. That's next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture

this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab

some Miller Lights today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks, and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass,

same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs in the next drive. They have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. And listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states.

Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit RG-help.com. Also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming on Monday night and we have a Prestige TV podcast coming right after Succession ends on HBO episode seven. Me, Sean Fennessy, Joanna Robinson, breaking it down. Coming up, part one of the two-parter, me and Rosillo. I'm licking my wounds, my friends. First, Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is 3.30 Pacific time. I have no notes. I just watched the Celtics blow an absolutely unblowable game

to the Philadelphia 76ers. The series is tied 2-2. The Celtics have a better team. Philly star played the best today, James Harden, but the Celtics blew multiple chances in regulation and in the OT to put this game away, Rosillo. And this was the type of game that I'd been worried about all year in the playoffs. It's why I have a hard time believing the Celtics team is going to win four straight rounds. It's execution. It's strategy. it's not calling just going into the end of regulation and ot with

timeouts in the pocket um marcus smart with the game winning three at the end of regulation wouldn't have been my first choice and then coming into the last 10 seconds at ot they give up a wide open three to harden or last 20 seconds and then on top that, they do not get a shot off in overtime. This looked like it was going to be an awesome Celtics win. And instead, it turns into a soul-searching loss. It is a best-of-three series. They should be favored. We're still on that feeling good.

You shouldn't. But I do disagree. Why did you think multiple times Boston had a chance to win this in regulation? I thought they stunk until like two minutes into the fourth quarter. Well, they're up six with two minutes, 50 seconds left. I think they're up five with like two

minutes left. I'm just saying near the end it looked like, what it looked like to me was like, this is the type of game they needed to put the chest hair on the playoff team kind of game where you rally back. Tatum has a huge second half. And then you pull it through at the end. Horford blocks a beat a couple of times. You leave Philly up 3-1. It's like, here we are, guys. We came together. This

is the win. And it went sideways. Yeah. I think the only time, just because I'm double checking here, they were up 105-100. And that's when I was like, is this actually going to happen? Brogdon made the three. There's two minutes left, though. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I just felt like, hey, look,

from the jump of the series, how I felt about it to how it felt going into this one, we got, what, 146 minutes of basketball prior to game four. There's not one minute where I thought Philadelphia

was better than Boston. Right. But your concern about Boston late, you know, you go back through it and you look through the playoff histories, even the champs. You know, there's very few instances. And I think we came off a decade of these absolute haymaker teams, these super teams where, you know, even when Golden State would have a weird game, they would figure it out. Well, I'm not going to compare Boston to that. As we've said throughout the entire season, the top of the league feels more even than it's ever been before. The point differential was the lowest for the number one team,

which was Boston, the lowest we've seen in like 30 seasons. So I don't know that maybe we're ever going to get a dominant version of any of these teams. But I thought Boston lost it in the first three quarters because you're watching it going, what's up with you guys? And then when they had that, it felt like they were – I guess I look at it more of them stealing it, and then it's kind of either way.

I don't care about the officials. There were calls, but honestly, smart and hard, and they all deserve each other as far as I'm concerned. The flop by Smart on the pick by P.J. Tucker where it wasn't really even a push, and they call it, and you're like, how does an official call that foul in that spot? Like, if I was a Philly fan, I would have been disgusted.

But the official part of it, look, Harden, it's a very weird Harden conversation because, like, during the broadcast, when he's going off in game one, it's like, all you haters and all you doubters, and you're like, well, no shit. And then game two and three, and against boston game three he had real ben simmons atlanta series moments you're like holy shit this guy's like afraid to actually finish now and for him to have

another one of these all-time hall of famer games the game winning three in the corner again you know the result sometimes you can be like all right we're two two a shot goes down it feels completely different depending on if smarts accounted, which it wasn't even close. I know you're probably most frustrated with how late they went because Tatum went five seconds left in their last possession to lose it in OT. Yeah, we can hit that in a second. We should mention how good Harden was because he was 16 for 23 in the day. He made every big shot right when they needed it. Every time they needed something, when it felt like the game was about to slip away, he did something. And then he made the big three in OT to basically fling the game.

But you're right. The Celtics had these two different times there at the end of regulation, end of OT, where it just seemed like they went too slow. And they end up in a smart Tatum thing at the end of regulation where, you know what Philly's going to do? They're going to leave smart open and they're going to let smart decide the game. And I did not think the shot was going in. OT, they have the ball at 18 seconds left. Missoula has two timeouts left. You know, at this point I've given up on Missoula ever, you know, figuring out the right thing to do there. He's just like, I'm going to let him play. Great. Let him play because this hasn't worked all year. Let's him play. They don't even start the play until seven

seconds left and it's Tatum driving to his left. And by the time he got rid of the ball, there was a second left. Like they didn't get a shot off. It was, that's why you call timeouts when you don't trust your team's going to do the right things. I didn't trust they were going to do the right thing. How many times do we have to watch that Tatum 40 feet from the basket play? Now I sound like I'm just whining about stuff, but I just, I like Philly called a timeout and came out of the timeout. They put Harden in the corner, which they hadn't really done, you know, all game. And he threw it to Embiid and he spaced in the corner and he made Jalen try to decide,

are you going to come off me and help Embiid or not? Jalen stupidly tries to double and leaves Harden wide open up two, which was the dumbest play of the game. Let's be honest, because I'm fine if Philly gets a two, then we can go to the second overtime. That's great. But what I don't want is Harden shooting a wide open three, which is what happened. I don't know why Horford wasn't on a beat to begin with. What was your take on that? They put him on PJ Tucker, so. Tucker wouldn't set the screen, and then he would have been on Embiid? Well, I'd rather have that than a wide-open Harden three.

I think it was because previously, because it was funny, Harden had got Horford in the switch again, and I was like, oh, this will be an interesting storyline of Harden misses against Horford after all the shit that people gave Horford, where I thought at the end of game one, the Harden three that he hit,

I thought Horford did a great job on that closeout. I thought it was fine. Seriously, I went through the 30 attempts, and I think 24 were contested. That's how good Harden was in game one. So I'd have to go back maybe and look at it now, but having Harden on that side makes sense, and the corner is a little different.

I thought it might have been a bit of a lingering thing where Harden just decided to stay. So I'd have to go back. No thought it might have been a bit of a lingering thing where Harden just decided to stay. So I don't... I'd have to go back because I feel like... No, I think that was a play. Okay, but see, I don't... Because I think they were running the same at the top with Harden and Embiid over and over and over again to the point that it felt like the Celtics

were starting to figure it out. So I felt like Doc tilted it just to make it look different. Well, I think he wanted to keep Harden on that side because I have no problem with the double because Embiid, like the Jokic army is upset about the outcome of this one because Embiid was scared to death there for a stretch. I mean, he went one for six in the fourth quarter. You could see him starting to turn things down.

That's why PJ went at him being like, hey, what are you doing? And then he kind of, look, they got the win. He hit a couple buckets. He got the free throws late. The block charge, I just hate it for basketball. I don't care who you're rooting for on the smart play, even though you knew when they reviewed it. I was like, I have a hard time believing they're going to overturn that.

But Embiid, I liked the doubles and knowing, you know, look, you'd rather double off of somebody else, but if you're keeping both of those guys on the same side with the ball and then spacing all the other players the other way, like I liked the doubles. Wait, you liked the double up two other players the other way. I like the doubles that Embiid... Wait, you like the double up two? Leaving Harden open? I don't...

I think there was more... I'd rather just give up the two. I'm fine with it. I think Embiid's so bad with those double teams that I'm totally okay with it. But I got to go back and look at the play then again because now I'm confused onto how many people were on that side

knowing that they wanted to keep Harden on that side. So I rewound it. It was Jalen on Harden. Right. They throw it in beat and Tatum's guarding and beat, and he's trying to back, back Tatum down. And Jalen initially is like, I'm not leaving hard. I'm not leaving hard. He's like face guarding hard and not even like looking. And then as Embiid got close to the basket, he does this late dart. And Embiid, he made a great play, sniffed it out, threw it to Harden. Harden was just standing there and that's the easiest shot in basketball.

So I thought that was going in. You did. Okay. I don't know. It's a huge shot. Harden 43 with the way he was shooting. He was 15 for 22 at the time. So you'd rather play Embiid straight up

with a smaller defender? I'd rather give up the two and it's tied and I have the ball 20 seconds left. The one thing I don't want to do is give up a three, ever. I don't want to be down one because I didn't trust the Celtics to get a good shot. The bummer, I mean there's a lot of bummers

for this to be the Celtics, but Tatum starts out he's 0 for 8 and then I thought he played, huh? If you're the Celtics. You're speaking for yourself. And then I thought he played... Huh? If you're the Celtics. You're speaking for yourself. And me too. And me as well. But Tatum put together a second half

that was about as good of an all-around game and the hardest I've seen him play with only a couple exceptions. I thought he was all over the place. He had 18 rebounds at the end of regulation and he didn't have any overtime. But I just thought he was really impactful. And it was the kind of game, as you've watched Tatum's career, you think this is the kind of game I know he has in him. I wish he did this more. And it really felt that in combining with

the Horford versus Embiid stuff, it felt like the Celtics were going to win. I thought not only I think they were going to steal it, but I thought they had kind of unlocked Philly and figured it out. At one point, I went on Twitter just to see just what the dialogue was about the game with like a minute and a half left and Fire Doc was the trending Twitter thing. Like the Philly fans were already like just furious

that all they were doing was hurting the state play over and over again. So the fact that they let them off the hook and now this is 2-2. And I got to say, like, this is a dangerous 2-2 because Harden could do that two more times. I don't know if he could go 16 for 23 again, but you know, in a best of three, somebody can just get hot twice, you know? I don't think this is a great spot for the Celtics. And I think they're more talented. No question to me. Yeah, I'm watching the play again. I mean, Embiid's so deep in the paint. I don't think anybody thinks he's making that pass. I think

we're just going to disagree because Embiid, I thought was awful in the fourth quarter. And he looked really hesitant. I mean, his own teammate had to talk to him. And I don't know. I'm just watching again. I like sending doubles at Joel because I just feel like he doesn't see him. He just doesn't see him that well. I guess that philosophy is different then because my philosophy is I just don't want to be down one. I don't want to

open three. I just don't. You might be right on the two versus three thing. It's an awesome pass and it's an awesome shot. I mean, the hardened part, like, is he going to take off game five then yeah pencil him in for 40 again for game six you think him and anthony davis are on the yo-yo all-stars swinging one way swinging the other way but it was again as bad as mb was during that one stretch the overall numbers are terrific the pass is great i mean you know the points all count right but that speaks to like hardens dominance in this game too because you're

like there were so many times i go okay they got it to eight harden three oh they got it to eight again harden oh wait you know it went from 12 to 9 is momentum changing and by the way you want to talk about twitter that crowd was expecting to lose for about 30 to 45 minutes it was done it was done like It was done. Like you would have thought they were down 20 with some of the director shots into the crowd because they never, you know, as bad as it ever got, it never felt like it was totally out of reach. It was just a question of Boston's intensity.

And, you know, you go to those mic'd up things. Missoula's like, we have another level. We have another level. He's talking to his team. And, you know, there's just so many times that nothing happens. And that's exactly what happened. And yet Boston was still kind of missing at the start of the fourth quarter

when it was clear they were playing with all this urgency. And they even kept Embiid out, not just at the start of the fourth, which is normal, but there was a long, long TV break, and they didn't bring him back after that. And I was like, okay. You know, he was like maybe 33 minutes through three quarters. So I think Doc was trying to sneak whatever possible rest he could get out of him there. And Boston was playing better, but they still weren't necessarily making shots.

And for his disaster system. You know why they were playing better? Because he finally went smaller. At one point, he had the three guards out there together, which I was like, thank God. I've been waiting for this for the entire series. Here's the line of Philly doesn't want when you're playing white Brogdon and smart together. But I thought they basically stayed with one big, the two wings and two guards or the three guards for the majority of, uh, of whenever they came back.

I, that, that real issue. I mean, there's a lot of real issues, but go, go through them, go through them. Floor's yours, your pod. That's our pod. We're together in this. I'm a co-host. I need to set you up here. This is your lane. The fear with this team and the fear during this entire run has been Marcus being too involved in big plays and big spots over and over and over again, where it just seems like you would think he's the Chris Paul, right? You would think he's the name, a name, like an elite point guard. The ball just seems to find him in games like this. And you kind of know it. And sometimes he makes the shots.

He made a couple of big plays today. He made a big three point play. Um, but also free throws on that bullshit. Tucker made the two free throws. Like bullshit Tucker foul. Right, made the two free throws. It wasn't like he had a bad game, but it's a lot of Marcus Smart. And you have, on the one hand, you have Marcus Smart involved in most of your offensive plays, right? They only had five points in the OT until Tatum hit that three with 37 seconds left.

So you have him on the one side, and then on the other side, you have Embiid and Harden. You know? And Philly was just over and over again kind of nudging the ball towards Smart. Brown wasn't touching the ball at all. Brogdon, he took out in the OT with four minutes left, and Brogdon was great and made a bunch of big shots. He was the only other guy offensively.

I mean, Tatum got off to the worst start in his playoff career, so if you didn't have Brogdon doing any of that stuff, this would have been a 20-point game. But he got his fifth foul, and then he took him out and never put him back in. And there was one point where he's like, Brogdon doing any of that stuff, this would have been a 20-point game. But he got his fifth foul, and then he took him out and never put him back in. And there was one point where he's like, Brogdon's at the scorer's table. He couldn't get him in in time.

It was between free throws. He's like, you can't get him in on time on free throws? Leaving the timeouts in the pocket, I am, if you have the right team, like if I have Chris Paul, right, or if I have Luca, or I have Steph Curry and the Warriors infrastructure, I'm good with the no timeout thing.

Like use kind of the flow of the game to your advantage. When you're this Celtics team, I'm not good with it. I don't think they get good shots. I don't think they make good decisions sometimes. And we've watched them lose games like this all season. Like all season. They're great when they're up 20. Games like this this shit like this

happens yeah you got game one where you felt like that one was like wait they lost this game you know granted harden went crazy again in that one and i know it'd be easy to play the game of like up three i just don't believe in that kind of stuff i think if boston wins the first two games and you're getting a different philly team in game three i I just think you are because at least they're good enough. They're talented enough. I always say every game is connected. So there are certain times where I'll allow it and be like, oh, this team should actually be up this or down this in the series.

But with this one, if they had won the first two, I don't know. I think it still would have been 2-1 at some point. Smart taking 10 threes a day is not what you want. So I agree with you. The last shot in the interregulation was wide open. It was wide open. You could see out of his hands it was short because it's a big spot for somebody. Did you think it was going in?

No. As soon as it was out of his hands. Well, he shouldn't be taking. Go ahead. No, you go. You weren't going to say the same thing. I'm so mad. He took 10 threes.

He made four of them. 10 threes is a lot for Marcus Smart in a playoff game. Same thing. I'm so mad. Like he took three. She made four of them. 10 threes a lot for Marcus Smart in a playoff game. Let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me. I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey.

That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday Night Hockey deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals, can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. The smart thing is a really fascinating Celtics subplot. It has been dissected and discussed for years and years. And you bring so many great things to the table. And it's like a little like the 90-10 Westbrook corollary of the 10% is just glaring and it jumps out. The issue for me is just, you know, he played 42 minutes in this game. There's a force of personality with him that no coach is ever going to be like, I'm going to sit Marcus for the last five minutes of this fourth quarter. You just kind of can't, you're going to lose the locker room. And, um, it just seems like he overpowers the other guys in games like this.

So that's my take from watching the Celtics over and over again. He just is prominently involved. And his thing is he wants to walk it up. He doesn't want to push. I thought the Celtics, I've been saying it for four games, have incredible advantages against the Sixers team when they just push and run. When they're walking it up, which they did most of this game, you're doing a beat a favor and you're doing hard in a favor. They're delighted that you're walking up. P.J. Tucker's 38 years old. He's also really happy we're walking it up. As soon as they started playing with some pace and some athleticism, the spirit of it changes.

But I just, at the end of these games when they walk and it's like, oh, they're going to roll the ball to kill some clock before they, I'm just like, this is not how they went. This is an athletic team that has a lot of scoring and they should be attacking when they slow it up and they try to play chess. It gets really dangerous. You saw, you saw the game ended. First of all, you know, I've always agreed to Marcus Smart.

All right. I know that he's like a fan favorite. So people, I think, have always gotten pissed at us over the years because we were way more like i used to just be done done with him i was like if you if you're telling me you think he's good like i don't want to hear about it and i remember one day i was like bored i was just pissed i was bored and i went through every one of his splits and wins and losses and for like six of his first seven seasons and the other season it was even so it wasn't the other way but like the six seasons that i found he had taken more shots and losses for six of seven seasons than it wins and in some of the seasons it was close to be like okay it still holds up and then other scenes you were like you

to be kidding me and i don't know how anybody could watch it as much as we've watched it and come to any different conclusion i think we're both educated enough of the rumblings of somebody that's been there long enough to be like the other guys were sick of it you know people were sick of it in general the feeling always kind of felt like smart thinks that jalen and tatum are in his way from stardom uh which is not or that he's or that he's equals offensively with them i think that's's the bigger problem. It's the three of us. Yeah, and the thing is is that I thought last year was the best season he's ever had.

And I'm not even talking about the defense because I didn't even vote for him in the defensive player year. I mean, I'm sure I think I had him top three in the ballot because I felt like it was finally him accepting that he wasn't those guys. And he's had ups and downs.

We got into an argument about it in March where they should be closing with White. And I was like, I kind of agree with you. But at the same time, I just don't know if they'll do that to a dude that was part of a team that made it to game six of the NBA finals who was really good. He was really good last season. And he does a bunch of things like Everybody kind of needs somebody on their team that does all that dirty work. Hell, when you look at how passive... Imagine Klay and Steph without a dream on green.

And it's kind of like Tatum and Jalen Brown. As great as they are, it's like you kind of need somebody. And there's some playmaking stuff that he's had at Atlanta. He's had a couple of really good plays in some of the wins in this series with his reads. So I think that's part of it.

Some cuts and stuff like that. Yeah, there's some high IQ stuff in the moment that he's great at. That maybe Missoula doesn't think Brogdon. I don't know. I think Brogdon could do it. But if Smart isn't defending Harden, since Jalen's taken over that part of it, I also think Jalen getting a second personal foul, which is fine. Also let Harden get a little bit more comfortable and get a rhythm and get into it.

But I think your best point that you're making, Bill, is the energy thing. Because when you saw Boston play with kind of energy slash desperation at the start of the fourth, it was like, whoa, look at this. Because you're right, you should be having Embiid have to run, even though he wasn't into the start of the fourth. You should have PJ running all the time. I mean, Maxie's really the only one be having mb'd have to run even though he wasn't into the start of the fourth you should have pj running all the time i mean maxi's really the only one out of that group that wants to run philly's awful in transition all the time the odd thing is as much as i can't stand the hardened approach to basketball and i'm talking like not

game four i'm talking the whole career of the iso heavy stuff and how it puts your teammates to sleep the positive is i think everybody ends up playing at your pace. I think Boston ends up matching some of that hard and pace stuff where for three quarters, you're like, you guys are just dead. You're just out of it. I'm looking at Marcus's playoff field goal

stats. What do you think he averages in the postseason field goal attempts? 13. Yeah. Which is about the right number you would think in your head, right? It's always like five for 13, six for 13. Seems right around where it should be.

But there's fourth quarter stats. And there was one I read the other night, actually, where I mentioned on the podcast, this account, Boston Sports Info, tracked all the three minutes or less close games, who took the most shots in the playoffs for the Celtics this year and last year. And Brown had 15 field goals. I'm sorry, Smart had 15 field goals and Brown and Tatum combined at 13. And it was like, this is kind of what your head sees. And it's tough because I'm a huge fan of his. I just don't know if he's playing 42 minutes

in a playoff game and he's your primary ball handler. Can you win four straight playoff rounds? That part makes me nervous. They put a lot of miles on Horford. What do you think's happened to Rob Williams in this series? Because on paper, this would seem like this would have been a really beneficial Rob Williams series. I think it's all about the spacing that Horford's somebody he has to respect and Rob, he doesn't have to respect at all. So it's just when Rob's out there,

Embiid can just patrol around and beat Bill Russell, basically. Dude, they had a play where it was a smart Jalen screen at the top and Horford pulled Embiid to the left side. It was unbelievable. PJ was late and I was watching that going like, oh,

that's the Horford play because Horford's pulling Embiid so far away he has no chance to recover. Embiid, whether it's the one of six, I'm sure the Philly side would be like, oh, he was exhausted because he did look tired. Breaking news, Embiid so far away, he has no chance to recover. And Embiid, whether it's the one of six, I'm sure the Philly side would be like, oh, he was exhausted because he did look tired. But breaking news, Embiid looks tired. Big guys that big after 30-plus minutes of playoff intensity,

none of them look real rested, flating games. But the other part beyond whether you think that was part of the missing in the fourth quarter or just the randomness of basketball, which I think there's a little bit more to it, you're not making that recovery up in the fourth quarter when you're that tired. And if Rob is out there, that's my guess on what Missoula is doing. Now, if you're proposing, hey, just mix it up and make Rob run Embiid,

get Rob out there 10 more minutes a game. I know you hate the double bigs thing, which I don't think they've done very much of that at all. It's, it's, it's certainly they've some minutes, but it doesn't seem like it's not too. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, Grant played, Grant only played 12 minutes. He's minus seven. Felt that felt, felt very minus 70, the minus seven,

the 12 minutes. Yeah. They only played eight guys. I guess, big picture, do you think either of these teams has what it takes to win four straight rounds? In comparison to the rest of the NBA, yes. And that's what we lose focus on.

If you're only watching your team, you're getting upset and happy within every 48-hour stretch. And so, you know, all my Celtics buddies that hit me up, like, this team isn't doing shit i'm like have you watched any of the other playoff series no i mean do you like are you so bummed out about this now that like

if hard and shot doesn't go in they're up 3-1 they're likely win the series um you know that heat nicks game i know we'll get to later in sunday's episode i don't know what the hell to make of that, although obviously I have thoughts. I think we should talk about it a little bit later. We could do the East, then we could do the West. We should, right. I get your point, but in comparison to everything else, maybe Denver really is that good, especially knowing they're going to have home court. I feel the best about Denver, and we'll be doing part two after the Denver game and maybe I won't feel as good about Denver.

Look, man, I've been afraid of Miami all year for the Celtics team because I thought even though the talent was different, the know-how and the infrastructure and the toughness on that team combined with the coaching and how

fucking smart that team is. Like look what they've done to the Knicks these first three games, right? They made the Knicks look like the 97 Knicks, whether they're averaging like 90 points a game. Um, Miami was the one that, but then Miami loses here on like,

I don't have to worry about them anymore. And they beat Milwaukee. They're rolling over the Knicks and they, and they think they can beat the Celtics and they see games like this or game one like this is great if it's a one point game with four minutes left we can beat these guys

we're smarter than them we'll make better plays and we're tougher than them we'll beat them that would be my take if I was on a member of the Heat right how can you not feel that way yeah especially you know in last year

you know with the Heat I Heat, I give up. I give up doubting them at all. And by the way, small correction on my part, Boston would have home court against Denver. Yep. But, I mean, is this, are we still talking about the Celtics here? Like, are you? I got one more thing to throw you. Okay, keep going.

Back to what we were talking about. Text from my buddy, my buddy House. Joe House, you know him. Any way we can figure out how to get Jalen Brown out of the fucking corner and into the game possessions, maybe Smart could be the guy that doesn't see the ball when Tatum drives left like every single time.

It's true. House doesn't even watch the Celtics all the time. Oh, here's Cerruti on Maz not calling a timeout. That was the play. We just had to play with a bit more pace. This is Missoula talking. We had the right matchup.

Jason got downhill and made the right play at the rim. Well, he didn't because there was one second left on the clock and it turned out to be the wrong play. It looked like the 14th seed that's been hanging with the three seed for 39 minutes. And then they have a chance to win it. And the kid who transferred from Hobart goes like four seconds left.

You're like, what are you doing? Tatum has the ball at 27, 28 feet at five seconds when he first goes. So you want to blame Missoula on it for not calling the timeout knowing that they haven't been good in this. I blame Missoula and Tatum. Yeah, but you've got to go. We're down one.

Get to the basket. What are you guys looking at? Yeah, because we need the rebound or need to foul. I'm less bullish on the Celtics title chances than you are. Do you think Philly's now better than them? Or do you think it's even? I don't. No, I just think... Do you think Philly's now better than them? Or do you think it's even?

I don't. No, I just think... Do you think Philly's winning the series? No, it's more, can this Celtics team win four rounds, which deep in my gut, you know, you'd think like, like last year, they should have swept the Nets, right? Didn't mean they were going to, but it's like, you're better than this Nets team.

You're tougher than them. You have more options. You should sweep this team. I didn't know if they were going to do it, but they did it. In Milwaukee, game six, where basically the series is going to be over, but I was super excited they rose to the occasion. I wasn't shocked because I felt like they were a good team. I thought they were a tough team. That was what was so frustrating about game five in that Milwaukee series last year was felt like the season had slipped away. And I thought this is a good team. They can win the title. I don't know if I feel that about this team in the same way. Cause, um, I think from a strategy execution standpoint, I think that stuff's too important. And this, you can make the same case by the way, about the Warriors, right? You watch the Warriors, that second quarter yesterday against

the Lakers where they just threw the ball to the Lakers or just got their shot blocked or missed shots for eight minutes. All of a sudden, the Lakers are up 10. And it wouldn't be a problem in a vacuum, except we've watched the Warriors do that all season, especially on the road. This is kind of who they are. And it's at some point, it's like the old Bill Parcells quote, like you, you know, you kind of are who you are after a while, right? What was that Bill Parcells quote? You are what your record says you are. You are what your record says you are. And in this case, you kind of are who you are in these games over and over again. And I just felt like this last five minutes of the Celtics team has been dicey

and frustrating. And there's been a lot of games like this. So that would be my fear. The good thing, if you're going to go positives, it's like they have just unbelievable talent, right? Just no other team has anybody remotely approaching Brogdon coming off the bench and doing what the professionalism and just how good he is. Who has a six man like that that's left in the playoffs right now? Quickly. Remember that guy? Quickly. His opponent for the six man.

Did we talk about Harden and Embiid enough? Because we've been so hard on Harden. I think I just want to make sure we properly pay tribute to how fucking good he was in that game. Yeah, I think the problem for Harden is that, at least for me, this was unbelievable. He was the difference. The Embiid stuff, he carried him. Maxie has these moments where he disappears. We know the Tobias Harris thing.

PJ is only a corner three attempt guy. So all of this stuff is unhardened. And a guy that looked like he completely lost his confidence in game three carried him. Carried him. He's the reason they're 2-2 between this game and what he did in game one. But he's also the reason they're 2-2

because the game's 3-4. So if you want to do the day-to-day, all the flowers, man. That's what the kids like to do, right? Give them all the flowers. But if we're doing the big picture thing, there's a lot of stuff that has to be remedied here for me to go like, oh, I expect him to be not 40 points, but somebody who's locked in and somebody I can count on. If this thing goes six, goes seven. Well, obviously it's going six now, but if it goes seven games, like there's still going to be some lingering part of me with all the years

of evidence. So yeah, I mean, he deserves all the praise for this, but I'm not going to like turn into, you know, sometimes I think on the broadcast, it's like, you know, if a guy had a 70 RA and then he gets somebody who strike out and be like, you know, people have been on him for giving up runs, but he made that guy look bad.

And you're like, okay, no shit. I'm so glad you brought up the, uh, the, the talking head TV culture that we're in now. And I'd like Stephen,

a I'm actually a fan of his, but whatever his role in on countdown, where it's basically, they start the show. Greenberg sets it up. He goes right to Stephen A. I think he's gone to Stephen A 85 times in a row. Um,

and it's always about, it's either Stephen A, you had some harsh words for Anthony Davis two nights ago, but he really proved you wrong. And then it's like the next thing, Stephen A, you, you talked about how Anthony Davis should have stepped up today and he didn't. And then Stephen A just going DEF CON one with like,

he was atrocious. He was so bad. He's got to put better than that. I look, guys are going to go up and down. Anthony Davis is the most, he's going to go up and down superstar we've probably ever had. And so is Harden. Harden was really bad in game three. And it was going to be interesting to see how he came back from it, but I'm not shocked by how he came back, but it just feels like we've, and I'm really trying to be careful with our podcast not to do this. Not just the ones me and you were doing together, but even just all week, because it's so easy to overreact game to game and go too far. And I really, I try not to do that. But it feels like the dissection of all

these games now is all about the two big stars on each team and how they did. And either they didn't do well and they got to do better or they did great and they should play like that all the time. And that's like 90% of the dialogue now. Like to me, I watched the whole countdown show today. There's so many interesting things about this series that I wanted them to talk about, right? Like how does Philly get Maxie Moore involved while also keeping these two guys? What are the Celtics going to do? Are they going to play smaller lineups? Can they play two bigs together? How are they going to try to unleash Tatum and Brown at the same time? They can't get both those guys. There are all these questions that I thought were really interesting. And then

it turns into, is James Harden going to show up today? Which I guess is just the dialogue now. I don't know. Do you feel like we're even partially responsible for this? Because of how podcasts are, I don't even know. I mean, this is a bigger topic, but I'm ready for it. I was texting with the guys on Van Pelt's show and I was just saying, hey, the stuff with you and legs is great and like i have tim legler on this week and we used to have him in studio for like an hour at a time and you know i remember like the 2016 comeback by the calves like we were breaking down all the stuff i was like just stick around like we're not even close right this is radio show and i never forget like one time i was talking with you about it i was just like it's crazy that you know radio we would be like seven to nine minutes then

goodbye you know it's like you just get warmed up and so legs it was always so good and um i i i don't know like and then i think about like first taking that stuff and like i'm not knocking that stuff it's not for me it's not interesting for me. I don't know if it's all about breakout videos, but say if I were, I'm never going to be on it, but like, say me going, well, I don't know. Thanks. Thanks for being here. Right. Like the product, all the daily drama and all the, the, the stuff and the calling out, like, you know, the TV producer, the first thing they'll say to you when you're going on a segment is like, okay, what are you hot on? And be like, oh, well, you know, I think this series is wide open. Okay. Why do you think it's wide open? Well, the teams are evenly matched. And, you know,

I don't, I don't know. You know, if you went to the producer and said, and be like, if he doesn't win this game, his legacy is on the line. They're like, done. Perfect. We'll leave with that. Right. Exactly. So, you know you know the game is does the audience actually want the hardcore breakdown that some people say the audience deserves and that these shows would do really well or are we actually probably getting what we what we actually want and and i think it's the latter i really do i you know remember the old nfl matchup show that used to be like early sunday morning i used to love that show love that show the ratings for its side well the ratings weren't good great it was really early so maybe that's part of it but

you know this is all like i don't know what steven a is supposed to do i don't know what will von's supposed to i don't know what green is supposed to do it's very i don't think they look like they really want to do it that much. Well, the halftime show for ESPN in comparison to what they do for TNT, it's two completely different products. It just feels like they've got to come in hot and do their thing. They don't have any time on the ESPN one. It's all at.

TNT actually has some space in there. You've got to get your one big comment and you're out. Now, here's an example of something with you and I last year. I went to those Warriors Celtic games and I was like, Clay just doesn't look like the same guy anymore. He doesn't have the legs. I'm watching in person. I think whatever we think of Clay in our head, I don't know if he's that guy.

I don't think he can move side to side the same way. I was watching him really carefully. I don't know if he's going to be the impact guy people thought. And you were like, I'm betting on the pedigree. This guy's been in a lot of big games. I still feel like he's going to have a moment. You ended up being right, right? But we had a real conversation

about it. Okay, but I think defensively you're not wrong about that still. He's not the same guy defensively. But we talked about it in a way that it wasn't like, Klay Thompson is done. Put a fork in him. He's out. The Warriors can't count on him.

Like, with the Warriors right now, there's a real conversation to be had about Jordan Poole, whether he's playable anymore. Right? I'm not sure he is. Like, you watch what he did in the second quarter, some of the turnovers he had, some of the shots he took. They really tried to get him going in that,

in that game too. But for the most part, I just don't trust him as a rotation guy to make the right decisions. And I just don't think he's the same guy as it was last year. And I think Kerr and the staff, because they need him so badly, they just keep kind of waiting. Like this is the game it's going to unlock.

And I personally don't think it's going to unlock and i personally don't think it's going to unlock but i wouldn't come out and say jordan pool is unplayable get him out of there like i do think there's got to be a little bit of nuance with it i just couldn't do it look from the jump when i first i can't i can't do it that way because even when we're wrong all the time by trying to be nuanced with it, right? So then you add in the layer of like, I'm just going to go crazy every 24 hours. Like that wouldn't even be that interesting to me to even want to do the job. Like a guy has a bad game, just trash him.

And the next game, it's like- It kind of feels like what the dialogue's becoming though. That's all it is. No, no, you're right. That's what it is. But then I don't know. I think the audience may subconsciously want it because could it be that everybody's wrong could it be that there's this magical version

of basketball coverage where it's not as bombastic where the takes aren't as dramatic where guys are laying back to really not coming up with any conclusions shrugging their shoulders on a make or miss night where one team just makes way more threes and that's all the analysis you actually need. That might not be entertaining enough and those shows may never work and that's why we just don't have them. Counter.

I would say the basketball podcast, like the whole infrastructure we have now is the best it's ever been. I think the audiences are growing for them and I think people like the dialogue. I think, I think that's one advantage for like this kind of format versus the TV format where it's like five minutes, go around in the circle. Everybody's got to make their strong point. I've done that. I've done those shows. I didn't enjoy it. I didn't like it for two years. I didn't like that format. It wasn't that fun to me. And it felt like

you had to have some strong whatever, and there was no room for nuance at all. And I think that's one of the reasons podcasts has been successful. Like look at the Phoenix Denver game tonight, right? Like why did Phoenix win game three? It was because Durant and Booker scored 86 points. That was why they won game three. There's really not a lot to go with that. We could do a five-minute TV segment after, like, what went wrong for Denver? It's like, I don't know, man.

Booker and KD scored 86 points. I had, I got this. I actually, I'm glad I brought this up because I have this for you. I had somebody look up, somebody, a friend of mine at the NBA, look up the actual numbers all time. And do you know what the most ever was? 88 points for two teammates in a playoff game combined. Two people did it. John Havacek and JoJo Way in 1973, 54 and 34, 54 for Hondo. And then Anthony Davis and Drew Holiday

on the Pelicans in 2018. In that Portland series? Yeah. Davis had 47, Holiday had 41. 87 points, MJ and Pippen, MJ and Orlando Woolridge, the 63-point game, and Elgin and Jerry, 61 and 26. And then 86 was Elgin and Jerry,

45, 41. Booker and Durant, 47 and 39. 85 points, Dominique and Randy Whitman in 1986. That's how rare it was for two guys to score 86 points. So it's like, I think Denver's better, and I think they're going to win this series. But if it's on the table for those guys to go 80 plus every game, I don't know, maybe Phoenix can win. I don't think it came down to the fact that TJ Warren hit two threes or that, well, it actually did help that Jock Landau was able to do some of the stuff he did in that game. I was glad he finally played him. But looking forward to the game tonight, like ultimately for those guys to beat Denver, I think Booker and KD both have to be really good or they're not going to beat Denver. Would you frame it as they both need to show up

and you would be mean about it? That's the thing of the TV. Kevin Durant, he's always looking for help. Now he's got Devin Booker. We saw this is when he thrives when somebody else does dirty work. I don't know. I just look, man. And the the funny thing too is like i think you were far more established than a lot of people like if it's a former player coming on and starting to get a little run but like you

could just see it all the years of espn you you know after like you'd meet somebody and be like oh wow this this guy's really good and then like six months later you'd be like wow this guy's lost his fucking mind you're like, the producers got to him. Right. Be like, oh, look who's on the 9 a.m. Sports Center now way more. And that becomes the like cycle that feeds itself because it was like, hey, you know who are not booking on Sports Center?

That guy's kind of it's real laid back and never says anything that aggressive. You're like, OK, we'll put him on the 12th. This is why we still love inside the NBA, because I feel like ultimately those guys are completely authentic with their opinions. I feel like Barkley genuinely, and he, I don't always agree with him. I think sometimes he's crazy, but I do think genuinely he believes every single thing he's saying. And half the time I disagree with him. Yeah. They have enough equity built up in it so they don't have to prove themselves to anybody anymore. They let the show breathe.

They actually let it be a show. I mean, there's another thing that I remember touching on with Brian Curtis is that everybody's trying to figure out a way to add a new piece or a new dynamic. And it's like, wait, every show that everybody wants to emulate, have you noticed that it's just the same people all the time? Like the one change in 20 years is Shaq.

And I think another part of it is I think it's the only show where despite the partnership with the product, they're not afraid to be more critical of it. Where there's certain sports where I feel like some of the guys are just never critical either they're an athlete that's too close to it that just retired times um you know sometimes it's just a relationship thing i mean i've always like as much as i like college basketball i would look at a lot of college basketball coverage being like are you guys all just on

the coaches circuit here you all do each other's banquets and like none of you guys will ever be critical of any like what's going on here? I always felt like college basketball, sometimes with the former coaches, was the least critical of the other stuff that they were seeing. So the NBA, even though when they're being critical on TNT, I'm like, man, you guys are being really harsh. At least it actually kind of exists. Whereas I feel like the harshness on some of the stuff that turns into a social media

breakout is just harsh for the breakout right like you're seeing tv be made for the 30 second twitter breakout it's not about the discussion it's hey will i get a million views if i destroy this guy for 30 seconds and then it's not even like it's not even the show you know yeah but the thing is stephen is a really fun guy like just as somebody who i think gets broken out with those 30 second video iven is a really fun guy like just as somebody who i think gets broken out with those 30 second video i think he's really fun to talk basketball with but i've had the occasion to do that a bunch of times i think he's a real fan but the times you've done it right but the times you've done it and this isn't even specifically about steven a for me

i'm thinking about a couple other people but uh yeah no when you when you've done it, the version of him that's on with you, that's never on the TV shows, is it? I don't know. It just feels very, everything feels very dire on the ESPN coverage this year. Everything's super extreme, right? Even coming out of the Sixers Celtics, it's like, is this now a legacy series for Jason Tatum? It's just, you kind of know where this stuff's going.

I don't know. I try to avoid it as much as I can, but the last couple of days I have watched those shows and I'm just like, what's going on here? Are you going to watch them tomorrow? Probably not. Hey, let's take a break and we'll keep going on that. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked

that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November.

Sign up now. Just search Movember. What does possible sound like for your business? It's the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. he's in now with how he conserves energy. I think it's like the single most interesting thing that's happening in the playoffs right now, how he picks and chooses when he's going to exert himself because he knows he can only do a certain level of intensity during a 48 minute playoff game. Right. So he's just like yesterday, he didn't shoot in the first quarter. It's like, well, LeBron didn't shoot. And it's like, well, I guarantee there was some sort of purpose behind

that. Cause I feel like IQ-wise, he's at such a higher level than everyone else in the league right now that every time he's doing anything, I'm always trying to figure out what his reason for was doing it. It's never an accident with him. You know what I mean?

And then the second quarter, all of a sudden he pushes the pace and it was like Rocky IV with Drago where the Russian trainer's like, no now Drago starts throwing the bombs. So I like stuff like that is the, that's the kind of storyline stuff that I'm intrigued by. Or like when you're going state, how do you play when Draymond gets too early fouls? What do they do at that point? He's their entire defensive identity. As soon as he has two foulss like they can't stop anybody anymore um you just brought up a great point uh and maybe this is about the podcasting stuff and by the way some of the stuff that we're criticizing we're both guilty of like i'll see a breakout video

i'll see a breakout video for my own podcast i'm like uh that's not really that was the title i know we we try to worry we're trying to be careful with that stuff it's it's unavoidable 100 so i at times will be like no no i'm being the problem you said that in your segment granted it was part of like a 20 minute spiel but you said it and now it's the video so whatever and so like i try to remind myself of that when i see the breakout video for somebody else i'm like what the what is this guy talking about like what is this but you know i'm not going to sit there like i try not to have my day consumed by this too much When I see the breakout video for somebody else, I'm like, what is this guy talking about? What is this? But I'm not going to sit there.

I try not to have my day consumed by this too much. But you brought up the LeBron point because his conservation of energy is incredible. Now, D'Angelo Russell going off like he did in the first half solves that problem for him. LeBron took his first shot 13 plus game minutes into the game in game three and what i've noticed with him is that especially against golden state because the lack of resistance at the paint rim he is like becoming this transition guy he was always great transition if he wanted to be but i think he kind of knows like i'm going to get most of my stuff in transition if i'm not hitting threes in this one. Once he gets going. Yeah. He's had some good turns into the paint,

turnaround stuff. I don't think he's always... I'd agree with Van Gundy. I've never thought... Because remember when they lost the first year with the Heat, people wanted to go to the Akeem camp where you learn all Akeem's moves in three days, which is the most unrealistic thing. I'm still going to go at some point.

Apparently, you just go for three days. You come back, you're a king. I don't know. To LeBron, getting those catches and then scoring a little bit there, I don't know if he knows his body. Well, of course he does. He knows his body better than anybody, but at 38,

if this is all predetermined, if it's specific matchup if he's thinking hey we already know we have these guys and he's mapping this out for 16 wins like he actually is that smart people that have played with him i actually think he is i really do i think i think he thinks about this shit i remember i think i've told this story before but there was a story about brady who had been in so many super bowls that he figured out the science of exactly when to peak during the Super Bowl game. Because he said the common mistake was that there was so much, the pregame was so long and then the

halftime was so long that he always felt like he peaked in the first half. So he kind of trained himself to kind of crest after the halftime just from experience and just because he's a fucking psycho and i do think with lebron like he must think about this shit where it's like all right we're gonna second quarter we'll have that lineup with the guards that's when i'll push the ball and try to change the pace and i don't know i think the guy i've said this for 10 years i think that i think the guy really is like a basketball genius i I think Magic was, and I think Bird was. I think Jokic might be too. I don't know if he's sense of the moment,

kind of big picture levitating above games like those guys, but I think there's like a real genius with how those guys approach basketball. And watching, like if LeBron can make the finals again and keep his body, you know, if he can just even keep his body healthy and productive and efficient with how old he is and how many miles he's on, I think it'd be one of the great accomplishments. It's really fucking bonkers. Like he's over 60,000 minutes. Like he,

and he's hurt, you know, and we just kind of take it for granted because he looks the same as LeBron, but I, you know, Davis is the best part on that team now. And they're going just kind of take it for granted because he looks the same as LeBron, but I, you know, Davis is the best part on that team now, and they're going to kind of come and go depending on him. But, um, but watching LeBron take over that second quarter,

it's like, this is really, really rare to do this at this age. Yeah. See, that would have been a really good conversation on a TV show, but I, I don't know,

like our guys not picking it up. They want to do it. Cause in like, we were both at game three last night. Uh, I watched, I didn't go. I had a,

I had a Ben Simmons lacrosse playoff game. I had to miss it. Oh, okay. All right. Cause it was, it felt tough weekend. And by the way,

a last minute loss for Ben. We can, a last minute losses for him. Yeah. Ben's out. I was with some lacrosse guys last night. They're already football. Ben's already on their radar. And I owe money. I was with some lacrosse guys last night. We're building on the football. Ben's already on their radar.

NIL money. I was like, I don't think he needs it. Are you kidding? He'd love it. I think I got an NIL deal for Ben Simmons lacrosse gear last night. So we'll see. That sounds great. He'll take it.

Tell Ben to DM me. I think the LeBron thing is so much fun just as a topic because first of all, it's not like LeBron at this stage of his career, 20 years in, it was like, Oh man, he was really psyched out going into game three at home against

Golden State. No, it was by design. Russell is hitting enough shots. It's like, okay, I can pace myself. I can pace myself.

And then once I get out on the break, like I'm going to go 25 year old. Cause you know, like those bursts, those sprint bursts in a basketball game, it can take you like three or four possessions to recover just from that burst. And so if he knows like,

that's where I want to make my money here, especially if the three isn't going down, like it wasn't the start of the playoffs for him, then I maybe have to pace myself in a way. He's like a boxer now in some of these games. And I think that's so good. And there's no negative to it. They were even getting on his ass a little bit on the broadcast, I thought,

for being like, hey, you've got to be more initiated. You've got to be doing this stuff. And I'm like, I think he kind of knows what he's doing. And as far as the 16 wins, maybe you're right. And I'll admit, sometimes we talk about basketball iq it's like no way a guy saw a double team and passed out of it holy shit let's give this guy a doctorate right right like sometimes it's completely it's the most basic stuff and then everybody freaks out like oh this guy's gonna just division that you're like dude that the double team's in front

of him he's at the three-point line it's not that big of a deal i was talking to with somebody recently that that coached him and they were in awe in awe of him and i was like okay wait give me and they were like all right here's one example substitute a substitution patterns alone like he knew he was like oh wait if it's they have to use their tv one before this or they lose it so i'm gonna get and it was like look i'm i'm mangling the story a bit but the point was lebron was basically telling the guys hey when they call their time out here because it was an important game i can get my rest here but that means i can come back earlier here and like he'd already mapped it out like look when they went over every single play off the top of his head, like, you know, fish sticks.

And I thought LeBron wanted to prove that he could do it too because McVay was getting like too much love. I was like, this all seems a little bit coordinated. But I have yet to hear somebody either play with LeBron or be associated with him on the basketball side that doesn't kind of do like an eye roll, like head tilt of that he's at another level. So maybe that's what we're seeing right now

with the way he's pacing himself. You know, it's another example of that, and this will sound critical. When he doesn't have the right team, we've seen him kind of fade in a couple series where he kind of knew before we did, like, oh my God, we're not going to win. And you can kind of see him almost like he gets so bummed out by the situation. I remember watching in person in the 2014 finals in game four and game five, I could see him from the stands.

I could see like his fucking chest brain calculating like the Terminator and being like, oh, we're going to lose. Like he just knew and it changed the way how he played. And I remember in the, I think it was the beginning of the second half in game five, he just wouldn't shoot. He was throwing these hard passes at everybody because he knew they were going to fucking lose. And in this situation, I think he knows this team's, he's probably, he's played against everybody. And he's probably like, if we can just stay's, he's probably, he's played against everybody. And he's probably like, if we can just stay healthy, we can probably hang with all of these teams. There's probably not one team that's going to overpower us. The Russell, I can't figure out

the Russell thing. He's one of my least favorite players, but he does have these random games where he just for a half, he looks awesome. LeBron's always liked guys like that. These weird guys that if they have it, keep them in. They don't have it, take it out. This team has a toughness to it too that I think is bizarre since they put it halfway together in February. But I think he likes the team. I genuinely think he thinks he can win the title with this team,

which is why it's been so fascinating watching his little crazy chess brain go into activation. So I'm going to game four tomorrow night. It'll be fun to watch in person. He'll do some stuff like Draymond tomorrow. He'll do a lot of gamesmanship with Draymond. He knows. It's like a big brother, little brother thing. He'll know little different ways to try to egg him on and put him into whatever situation. But he's going to be conserving his energy because this will be four games in seven days for him. This isn't Jason Tatum at age 25. This is an old guy with a lot of miles on him

just trying to get through this. So I think that game tomorrow night is going to be incredible. Yeah, I can't wait because, you know, I thought, you know, the free throw differential part of this has been a big deal for obvious reasons. Three games in, 54 more attempts for the Lakers.

29-6 in game one. 17-16 Lakers in game two, so pretty even. And then 37-17 yesterday. I was at the game yesterday. I watched it. I didn't love the calls on Draymond. The second and third fouls I did not like. Let me do this.

I watched the first three quarters because I didn't have to watch the fourth quarter again. Because being there, it's not. It wasn't going to be the same thing. I didn't love the officiating in game one. I thought there was just a lot of 50-50 stuff where it's like, wait, you're going to call these all on Golden State tonight? And you're not going to call these on the Lakers? Again, that was the way I saw it. I know that from a style point and the overall differential, but it's like, hey, dude,

it shouldn't average out to this many. Even though it was a plus 20 in attempts last night watching the game again today, yeah, there's a couple of Draymond Green calls that could have gone the other way. I really didn't have a way. I didn't have a problem with the game being officiated that way at all because now the Lakers know.

It seems too slappy. The two most physically dominating guys going downhill are both in the Lakers and Davis and LeBron. And game three may have been the wake-up for them. That's always the fun thing about the playoffs. It's like, hey, when everything's kind of falling apart and maybe we're not getting the stops or we're turning it over and our two outside shooters or the sixth man,

they're not giving us the space they're needing and guys aren't respecting them. Is there one thing that we know we can go to that can't be stopped? And for the Lakers, it's if we get anything going downhill against these dudes, there's not really much of a chance. And that's why Draymond, even though I don't love the charges, I don't know what else he's supposed to try to do. Like he's going to do something to get Anthony Davis thinking

about going to the rim unimpeded. And I think the one... It's the same thing with Embiid. I don't really know what you're supposed to do as a defender when they're moving downhill and they're kind of lurching into the guy. I don't know what the defensive move is. I don't think Davis is even

close to Embiid's class of selling it. I don't think Davis ever tries to sell that stuff. But I think you just landed on something that I was thinking about as you're going through. If you went through the eight remaining teams being like, hey, rank their thing, rank their best thing

that you're sort of helpless against, Philly might be number two with the Embiid to the free throw line thing. And I'm talking about where he sets up, not getting the calls, which is part of it, but does Philly have the one default thing offensively that's better than any one default

thing Boston has offensively, which is funny that we, 45 minutes later, brought it all the way back to this, or an hour later. Jalen Brown, after the game, said on his double team, quote, just a bad read, that's it, a gamble at the wrong time. So I win our argument. Even Jalen Brown after the game said on his double team quote just a bad read that's it a gamble at the wrong time so I win our argument

even Jalen Brown agreed with me and he's the one who did it I know because players never after something bad happens ever take blame for something that they don't believe in

I'm taking the W and that's that we are we're going to wrap up part one we left a lot on the bone for part two we got

we're going to react to Denver Phoenix right after that game that game is going to be up part one. We left a lot on the bone for part two. We got, we're going to react to Denver Phoenix right after that game. That game is going to be awesome. I can't wait for Denver Phoenix. I love watching, I love watching this Denver team. I love it. I just love the way they play basketball

and I love watching Jokic. I love watching Booker. I love watching Durant. Like I can't wait for that game. So we'll talk about that. We'll do a little Miami Knicks. We had a couple other gimmicks for you that I thought we would get to today, but we ran through it.

But I will see you. Wait, no, there's one more segment. That's where we rank Chris Paul's leadership. Is it still number one in the playoffs? Are we doing that second part? I think LeBron, when he likes his team, is the best leader in basketball. Unfortunately, that's only happened 65% of the time. I don't know about that.

I mean, I kind of went off on LeBron leadership stuff when it said it's worse. No, I know. I was kidding. When LeBron likes his team, though, awesome leader. If he likes everybody, it's great. All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll give you that.

But when he doesn't like you, not a great time. Does it go as well? That is great. All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll give you that. But when he doesn't like you, not a great time. Does it go as well? That is great. All right. This was produced by Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti as well. And we will see you for part two. And if you want to listen to a succession reaction,

Prestige TV podcast right after episode seven. Rocio, I'll see you in a couple hours. Si, senor. On the wayside On the first side of the road I don't have to ever forget