The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: Harden-for-Simmons Finally Happens! With Chris Ryan, Kevin O’Connor, and Rob Mahoney

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

In Part 1 of the NBA trade deadline podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan, Kevin O'Connor, and Rob Mahoney to discuss the 76ers trading Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond, and two first-round draft picks to the Nets for James Harden and Paul Millsap. Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Chris Ryan, Kevin O'Connor, and Rob Mahoney Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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must be legal drinking age we're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We'll be covering the NBA trade deadline with the Mismatch Podcast, the Ringer NBA Show, Ryan Rosillo's podcast. Just get ready all week. Buckle up. On this podcast, we're going to be putting up episodes all day. I'm taping this right now. It is around 1030 Pacific time on the day of the trade deadline. We just found out that the Harden trade happened. We'll be talking about that in one second with Chris Ryan, Rob Mahoney, Kevin O'Connor. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. 10.30 Pacific time, AM.

The James Harden hostage crisis is over. Thank God he was able to get what he wanted. I felt so bad for him, you know, toiling away in Brooklyn there for 11, 12 months. Just so unhappy. He is getting traded to Philly. The trade is Chris Ryan. Tell us the trade. Uh, the trade is James Harden goes to Philadelphia, Ben Simmons, Andre Drummond, Seth Curry, and two first round picks go to Brooklyn, New York. We are here with Kevin O'Connor and Rob Mahoney for part one of the trade deadline Palooza pod. KFC, I told you the Seth Curry thing on Sunday night on this podcast. People, they were like, well, but that was the multiple first round draft picks in there and philly didn't want to give seth curry they didn't want to they would rather have given a

cork boss and a seal of danny green and this is the compromise but ultimately though here this is a win for the sixers though the patience paid off if people were saying back in october they could have taken harrison barnes they got James Harden because they waited for this moment. This is what they were waiting for and it happened. This is a huge win for the Sixers even despite giving up Seth Curry. You got James Harden. Mahoney, what kind of James Harden

are they getting? A kind. I think a decent one. I think between what we've seen from James before he started sitting out this recent stretch of games, we saw a version that was a little more close to his all-NBA self, a little bit closer to his superstar self.

A guy who could, on this team, in this context, be an anchor for a team that could go to the East Finals and beyond. And I think the key to understanding that, the key to understanding his fit within Bede and all these pieces, he's just a phenomenally talented creator that's going to change so much of what the Sixers do

and what they have to do and what Embiid has to carry. He recontextualizes their whole team, even if he's not the exact player we saw three, four years ago in the MVP race. The exact size player. Chris Ryan, it's time. Diehard Philadelphia 76ers. On so many Ringer podcasts,

we rarely treat ourselves to a Chris Ryan appearance here on the BS podcast. You know, you're all over the place. You're like one of those A-list rappers that just hops on other people's tracks all the time.

I'm always afraid to book you. You can't afford me. My feature fee is way too high for you. So Ben Simmons quits on your team during the Atlanta series. I recall that, Bill. Thank you. I don't know if you remember that part. And Doc Rivers hurts his feelings.

Clutch gets involved and he just decides, I'm not playing anymore. I'm going to take my ball and go home. At any point, did you think James Harden was going to come out of this? No, absolutely not. We were talking about DeJounte Murray and Jakob Podol and some pick swaps. We were talking about CJ McCollum and Robert Covington. We were talking about 80 cents on the dollar. But dealer Daryl, and let me tell you this, Bill, I defy you to go back

through my last 10 years of written work or podcasting. I've always loved James Harden. I've always loved his game. I think his commitment to his teams is unquestioned. I think his MRIs are always just, they look like rainbows popping out of a meadow. I'm sure that his left hand is fine. His right hamstring is fine, whatever. Yeah, this is why you move mountains to get Daryl Morey because Daryl Morey can move mountains. Because this is the kind of trade that he can make. I probably, at various points,

had talked myself into Damanis Sabonis or talked myself into CJ McCollum or talked myself into DeJounte Murray. But James Harden is an objective upgrade over Ben Simmons. He got a better player for the player he traded. Well, so KOC, you assume Ben Simmons is never coming back, right? If you're Philly, you're making this trade. So really the upgrade

is Seth Curry to James Harden would be the upgrade unless there's a scenario that the trade deadline passes. And then Simmons never, you know, he basically was like, all right, fine. I'll play.

I'm costing myself too much money. And then you have the Simmons Curry situation. You have Simmons being interjected into this weird season, the Embiid stuff, the Doc Rivers stuff. So on, on paper, on paper,

Harden is much better than Seth Curry. With that said, I really liked the way Seth Curry and Joel Embiid played together. And I thought Seth Curry was really valuable for them. And he was able to move. And we've seen Embiid. We talked about this little Sunday night, the little dribble handoffs that Embiid can do, all this stuff. I don't see Harden with a lot of movement. So I guess we've never seen Harden

with a center. He's been saving it. He's been saving it up. That's the case. But James Harden with a center, I assume we see point guard James Mahoney. I'm going to come to you after this, but what version of James do we see

with Joel Embiid? So with James Harden, I mean, you're not going to see the motion. You're not going to see the movement of Seth Curry. It's just going to be something different. You're going to see Joel Embiid doing different things as well, because with Embiid, he's never had a playmaking point guard like James Harden. And that's why I've been so excited about the idea of this. Harden gets to play with a big for the first time that has the impact and the ability of Joel Embiid. And Embiid gets a

playmaker like Harden. You're going to see those guys run a lot more pick and roll together. I mean, to me, that's the first thing Doc Rivers and that coaching staff needs to integrate is like, how can we design pick and roll plays to maximize this Harden and Embiid combination? So you're going to see less handoff actions, maybe more pick and roll.

I think that's the way you'll see it distributed. But Mahoney, is that good to screw with how incredible Embiid's been this year? I mean, if the season today is the MVP, and now you're bringing somebody who Embiid has to adjust to. I think he has to adjust to him, but there's nothing wrong with diversifying a little bit of what Embiid does just because there's so many possessions where he has to catch it 18, 20 feet from the basket and just make something happen. Those are now James Harden possessions or they're pick and roll possessions involving them both. And we've had so much time to stew on what these two guys could look like together. I keep coming further and further

toward the idea of Joel Embiid is just like seven foot Chris Paul, basically as a James Harden partner. The idea that these guys, they intersect, they're a big and a guard, they're going to run pick and roll, but the Sixers are going to be defined by how dominant those guys can be individually in their spaces. Harden on the perimeter and Bede on the block, they're going to have tons of isolation opportunities still

and post-up opportunities still. And if they can be as good as CP and Harden work together, the Sixers are going to be a dominant team, at least on that side of the ball. Chris, are you excited that one of the preeminent playoff losers of our lifetime, James Harden,

is being paired up with the guy who has lost more game sevens and blown more 3-1 leads than any coach in NBA history, Doc Rivers? Do you think that it cancels each other out? Is it too wrong to make a right? You're such a prick.

I thought you were going to ask me a real question. Of course I'm worried about that. Yeah, I'm worried about it. What could go wrong? Doc Rivers gets along with his players and nothing bad ever happens. James Harden is always so reliable in the playoff rounds. Well, look, I think that the one thing you get going for you here is that Harden is always so reliable in the playoff rounds. Well, look, I think the one thing you get going for you here

is that Harden is going to be, I think, on what constitutes for him best behavior, right? So he comes into a situation where he is essentially asked out of two teams in two years to get... Two years? One year? In one year. Two seasons. I want to know what is the bond between Harden and Morey. Have we ever seen a star player and a GM have this kind of relationship

where the guy is like, I'm going to go to a team where I might be a part of the most intoxicating, historically efficient supernova offense in NBA history. But what I really want to do is hang out with Daryl. I, you know, like I've actually just like mystified as to why Harden is like, forget the Kyrie stuff. Forget the Katie's being hurt stuff.

Joe Harris isn't coming back. Did he really not want to run Steve Nash's offense? Did he really want more ISOs? Like what is the, what is the gravitational pull that Morey and Harden have for one another? I obviously feel like the Sixers are going to benefit from it, but

I'm really curious. We've never seen this before where a star player is like, wherever that GM goes, I follow. How much of it is Daryl? Is it just Daryl Morey, or is it like Tad Brown andek mill and michael rubin and like joe and beat as well say that sentence like one more time just to like

yeah it's so cliche when ksc drops those names no but it's like no no it's the truth though what planet are we on is it mill and michael rubin no i'm just saying i'm just saying like i'm just saying like terms of relationships, that matters but what really makes it appealing is Joel Embiid. You can have all those relationships that talk you into something, but the real appeal is the product on the court itself.

And that's Joel Embiid. You got your Celtics trade, Bill. Josh Richardson to the Spurs for Derek White, right? Yeah. Josh Richardson to the Spurs for Derek White, right? Yeah. Josh Richardson to the Spurs for Derek White? Yeah. Kind of like Derek White.

Interesting. So does that mean there's a second trade now? I don't know. We'll come back to that. Yeah, I just wanted to see your face when you found out you were getting Derek White. I think Derek White's good. Can like I think Derek White's good. Yeah. Derek White's good.

Yeah. He's good. He's good. You like Derek White? Good player for them. Yeah. All right. We'll come back to that. Um,

Casey, I didn't mean to interrupt you. You were talking about, it's all good. It's all good. No, listen, I want him to rattle off those names again.

So Meek Mill, Michael Rubin, the rest of you have in there. No, I mean, it's like, what I mean is the name the names are what they are but they're not as important

as the appeal of Joella beat and I think the stuff that you mentioned Chris does matter like we I don't think we can forget the fact that James Harden has to you know play with a part-time player and Katie's out I think all of these factors have to be in consideration like it makes sense forget about all the

relationships and all that for basketball reasons to me like like rob said the interior force of joelle and bead and the perimeter that that james harden provides those guys together like on paper if they buy in completely that could be a perfect match again harden has to see that and maybe the relationships help talk him into that but like what they're talking about like there's something actually real there is my underlying point here you know and I agree with you it's just it's not like he's leaving the pacers you know what I mean like I'm

just surprised that he would be in a situation like Brooklyn and that Brooklyn it in those brief moments we saw of the Brooklyn trio together it was like well you just that this will be unsolvable. Like, this is like,

you can't guard this team. There will always be an open shooter and the shooters that they have will make those shots. And obviously I think that they were so top heavy and they bet on a bunch of veterans that didn't pan out or Blake Griffin collapse and Millsap and like all the guys that they were like, we can get some, some juice here and there from these guys,

a couple of minutes here and there. It didn't work out this season. And the Kyrie situation wound up metastasizing. But I'm kind of surprised. I mean, I'm flattered. I'm really, it's awesome that he's like, I like Philly is the spot to be. Yeah, I'm flattered that somebody would be like,

I'm going to Philadelphia. Like I want to get traded away from Kevin Durant to go to play in Philadelphia. Mahoney, any case that there's some buyer's remorse here for Harden with how this played out, where he had a choice between Philly and the Nets, right? For basically that first month of the NBA season, it became this two-team race to try to get him. And he picks Durant. And from everything I heard, it was Durant pushing, pushing, pushing. It was Durant and Harden together.

Them trying to convince Joe Sy the week of to finally make the move to throw in a little more. Finally, the Nets throw in more to make the trade. He ends up going there. And I wonder at what point Harden reached where he goes,

what did I do? It's probably this year, right? It's probably when the Kyrie stuff snowballs, but was it last year? Was it this year? Cause we, I mean, Jackie, when KOC and I were on with her a couple of days ago, she was saying how by all accounts and KOC was agreeing that it was kind of Harden's was the leader of last year's team in a lot of ways. Like he was the rock. So do you think this was all Kyrie related or what would have been the other factors here? Well, immediately this goes down as one of the great what ifs of

NBA history. If those three guys had been able to be on the court and healthy in last year's playoffs this season, because we'll never see it again. We'll never get the chance to see a team, a super team that barely had a chance to play together at all. I think Simmons is going to be a really great fit, but them not getting a real crack at this, I find it hard not to place some blame on Kyrie. I don't think we get here if Kyrie Irving is a full-time, fully active member of the Brooklyn Nets. I just don't think that happens.

I don't think the frustration levels reach the way they do. I don't think the losing streaks reach the way they do. Maybe it's unfair to place the blame solely on him because there's obviously more complicated factors in play here, but it's tough to read this situation, whether you're looking at Harden's buyer's remorse or the Nets buyer's

remorse or however you want to panel it. Kyrie has to be a central figure and a central figure to receive some blame in exactly the way things have gone down. That said, maybe the Nets win the championship with Ben Simmons. I don't know. He's kind of exactly what they need in very different ways. Yeah, and I want to talk about that in a second because the Ben Simmons piece of this is so much fun, the Brooklyn thing. I mean, we just haven't seen Ben Simmons play basketball. Chris, do you think this was the equivalent of

KD is two years out of college living in like Austin and he's in a three bedroom apartment and he's living with Kyrie and Harden's thinking

of moving to Boston and he's like you should move in we have another bedroom Kyrie's only there three nights a week yeah he's like Kyrie's cool man

yeah he's not there he's never there at all you'll love it no you should get this bedroom it's a great place no you'll like Kyrie I swear to God he's the best and He's never there at all. You'll love it. No, you should get this bedroom. It's a great place. No, you'll like Kyrie. I swear to God, he's the best. And then Harden gets there and it's a disaster from the get-go. And he's trying to figure out how to sublet his room on Craigslist within like five minutes. It does feel like it has that

feel where Duran is like the only person in the last five years who has truly bought into Kyrie. Who are the other people? It's really just him. Yeah, I mean, I think that their kind of idea that they were going to go to Brooklyn, that Nash was going to show up, and that they would essentially be the figureheads for the franchise was a pretty enticing

idea because not a lot of players get to have that kind of ability to shape something with the exception of like lebron but yeah to me it's like the durant's voice is the one that i think is the quietest here and everybody made a note that he like liked an instagram post that woj had done where it was basically like harden wants out he just doesn't want to do a public trade request and then then that kevin liked that photo i'm so like kind of over-reading the tea leaves

of this. I think it would be really interesting just to candidly hear from him about how he feels about it. He has a podcast! He did an episode last week! We could have heard from him. I want to hear about... It could be something as simple as what you're talking

about, Bill, which is that guys who are friends who see each other six times a year maybe also don't want to spend every waking moment with one another. You know what I mean? And that what they thought was going to work out, even if it had a lot of potential, that Harden wants his own team or wants to be kind of like in a zone where he's playing for somebody in Daryl

who totally knows what he's buying. That's the one thing I have confidence in, is that Daryl Morey has been down this road with James Harden for long enough that if there's anybody who knows how to handle James, quote unquote, it's definitely going to be Morey, right? Yeah.

That makes it sound kind of sweet. Like two people who accept each other for all their flaws, making eyes at each other across the room after all these years. It's like Leo and Kate Winslet. They just had a magical time on Titanic and they just love

working together. KFC and Mahoney brought up the what-if factor of this, which definitely is hanging over all of this. What we saw from the Nets in that first round and how we watched that and we're like, oh my god, this has a chance to be the greatest offensive team we've ever seen. It's interesting to me that Harden's been involved now

in two of the biggest what-ifs of the last 50 years of the league, right? Because the Harden trade was the first one, which we certainly got enough mileage out of at Grantland and all over the place. Maybe a third one with the Rockets, Warriors, Chris Paul injury. The Chris Paul injury, yeah.

That's like in that what-if-so-and-so didn't get injured camp? Different bracket. Yeah, but still a valuable one, right? And we've had a lot of those too. This one is more like, what would that team have been like? And in the OKC case,

we only saw it that one year, but it was a really young version of Harden. And I remember at the time writing that I thought Harden had a chance to be like Manu Ginobili 2.0. He's clearly like transcended that in all these different ways. But we did get to see these guys together

and the Boston series ends up becoming like a 30 for 30. I remember watching the Celtics fan being like, this sucks. Like we're done for the decade. These guys and now it's over. But do you think if Harden doesn't

hurt his hamstring in the playoffs last year that this trade even happens? Or do you think it was just all these little events that now lead to this crazy event? I mean, it's both of those things, really. Maybe they win it all last year if these injuries don't happen. With this Nets team, it's both of those things, really. I mean, maybe they win it all last year if these injuries don't happen.

Like with this Nets team, it really is a shame we won't get to see them again at peak strength. I mean, because they were absolutely unbelievable to watch last season. It's all falling apart because of all those little things that kept adding up, like you said, Bill.

But with this Nets team, though, I mean, ultimately, like in some ways, it's kind of a... Like they maintain throughout. Everybody you talk to around the Nets team though I mean ultimately like in some ways it's kind of a like they maintain throughout everybody you talk to around the Nets they maintain that they believe that with KD Harden and Kyrie that they were the best team in basketball with those guys healthy they truly believe that I think even

after doing the deal the question now is like with getting Simmons and Curry does this actually make them better though does it actually make them better because of? Does it actually make them better because of what Ben Simmons could provide there? Because of Seth Curry kind of, he can add more of that movement and shooting

like we talked about. That's the Phillies losing. Now Brooklyn gets that movement in that shooting and they can play with that around Ben Simmons who can do everything Blake Griffin does with dribble handoff actions, short roll, switching on defense. I feel like the Nets come out of this.

We're not going to get to see that version of them again, but they come out better on paper, at least, with what they could be. It seems like potentially a more reliable team, except for the part that one of the guys involved is somebody who decided not to play basketball for the last 10 months. On paper.

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Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. I actually do think Brooklyn might be more fun to watch. So Mahoney, let's talk this through. You have Simmons in the 25-year-old version of how good Blake Griffin looked for a month and a half last year in that spot. Like the undersized five, pushing the ball in transition.

You might be able to run some low post stuff where he passes out of the low post and whatever else, rebounding, and he's going to be able to guard the other team's best defender. Curry, who I think has turned into kind of a gem of an offensive player. I really enjoy

watching him. He can create shots. He can play off other people. He just seems like he'd be fun to play with. That's been the case for a couple years. See, those two. You have Durant. You have Kyrie. Doesn't look like we have Joe Harris. Who's my fifth for crunch time and what does that lineup look like?

It's Patty, right? Yeah. Maybe small with Patty. That's really small. I mean, I really love Seth Curry, but I, I,

I do have memories of Seth Curry being like a pretty big defensive liability in the playoffs. You know, like it, it's really sweet. Like he's a nice dude and he, he's an awesome offensive player and I know that Embiid loves

the guy who can curl around him and run all these figure eights and work off the ball and then nail it open three. But Seth Curry in May is not the same thing as Seth Curry in February. But what it allows you is you have with Curry and with Kyrie

at every point of the game you have somebody who can be a little bit of a creator as a guard, right? So I don't know how Curry and Kyrie can play together. Simmons can guard Trae Young or Simmons can guard Middleton or Holiday or whatever. Simmons can take the toughest perimeter defensive assignment that you've got. So, Rob, who's the crunch time guy? Who's that fifth guy? Is it somebody that's not on the team yet? Is it Aldridge?

Could it be Aldridge, Durant, Kyrie, Mills, Simmons, and then Curry? Curry's not in crunch time. So basically, Curry's your Kyrie protection, I guess. I still feel like you want another big out there. And some of that is Simmons. Simmons is a great theoretical five. When he's been actually asked to play five

or guard fives or rebound like a five, it doesn't always go so well. It doesn't always work exactly the way you would want it to, to the point where I think I would want a little bit more size alongside him, a little bit more support there, wherever that ends up coming from,

whether it's Aldridge or Claxton or maybe someone to be named later. But the combination of what he gives you defensively, guarding perimeter guys, being able to switch, and then offensively, I don't know that you can find a better fit in terms of a full-court menace and a half-court

shot maker than Simmons with Kyrie or Simmons with Durant. Those guys, their games synergize so smoothly in a way that all the questions about court shot maker than Simmons with Kyrie or Simmons with Durant. Like those guys just, their games synergize so smoothly in a way that all the questions about, you know, hard and having the ball, how are we going to balance this stuff for that? It just goes away.

Like it becomes super clean when everyone is out there in a, in a way that I think could be really, really challenging for other teams to keep up with. That's why I think with the end game, like finishing lineups here, it depends. I mean, sometimes in certain lineups, it might be a small ball team with Kevin Durant and Ben Simmons at the four and the five. But other times it might be Aldridge.

It might be Claxton. It might be Curry. It's going to vary on a night-to-night basis, which kind of speaks to there's these reports about Harden likes to have a fixed end game lineup. The Nets want to be flexible and have different teams out there. Steve Nash is going to have a lot of fun with the lineup combinations. It could even be like Kessler Edwards who's been a pretty good 3 and D guy

for them. It could vary on a night-to-night basis of what they throw out there to end the game. I think Steve Nash is the big winner of this trade, right? Because he was in this untenable situation with you just don't want unhappy, overweight James Harden at any point if you're a coach. And then

you have Kyrie, who's top five guys you wouldn't want probably in the last five years. And then Durant coming off seems like a pretty significant injury, considering he said that he's going to be out another three to four weeks on top of all the time he's missed already.

Now, at least Nash can coach a little bit more. Kristen's the, the thought of KD and Simmons as these two kind of, I don't want to say unicorny, but close with all the stuff that can bring to a lineup. I guess KD is a unicorn Simmons. I don't know,

but like these two guys that you have out there, I actually liked the thought of them together. I've been thinking about that a lot. Assuming Simmons's head is right. And who knows? I mean, it's intoxicating. I wasn't necessarily like, I was never somebody who was like sweeping Ben out the door. I also had like kind of a feeling like, well, if this doesn't happen, maybe he comes back to the team water under the bridge bridge, got to rebuild his value. Let's make a second half of the season push with Simmons in the lineup. Maybe he gets a little bit of redemption in the playoffs. And then maybe if it comes to that, you move on in the offseason when everything is sort of settled and Beal and Lillard are out there

and you can kind of make a decision about what the best move is. But I'll tell you something, the first time this dude swishes an above-the-break three-pointer on the Nets, but I'll tell you something like the first time this dude like swishes and above the break three pointer on the nets there's gonna be a lot of water main breaks in Philadelphia like I do wonder how much of what's going on with Ben outside of the the mental stuff that he's that that that people have talked about him going through is just a circumstantial environmental thing where it's like you know he's been playing with Joel his entire career. They've had a lot of turnover on that team.

There was the sort of Feds version of the team. There was the Jimmy Butler version of the team. There's been this iteration that's like Joel, Tobias, and Ben as the big three there. I love what you're doing here.

This is great. Keep going. Am I talking myself into Ben Simmons just needed a change of scenery? This is the Ben Simmons and Ab Am I talking myself into Ben Simmons just needed a change of scenery? This is the Ben Simmons and neighbor playbook that Clutch sent Chris like a week ago. Bill, I forgot to mention who will be negotiating my next deal with you, by the way.

Should Rich just text you? Do you guys want to meet for coffee? I think you'll find my demands incredibly reasonable. This is the best thing possible for Ben Simmons, though, which is, it's just so funny that it worked out for him when he handled it just horribly, really, since last June.

That's usually not the case. Where you have Ben Simmons wins and Harden wins who's quit on two teams in a year. 15 minutes after this happened, this is like a weird win-win. You know, Daryl Morey got a better player than the one he had for the trade. The Nets obviously got

to the point where one of their three-star players did not want to play there anymore, and instead they get back basically everything they need. Somebody under contractual control, someone who plays defense every night, someone who's unselfish, and you think maybe in this new context with Steve Nash and Kevin

Durant and Kyrie Irving and whoever else, that some of the things in his game that have been Achilles heels turn into like, well, okay, I mean, I think that James will probably have like a pretty smooth, seamless transition into the Sixers system. by it because we've seen, we saw an LSU. He barely wanted to finish that season. We've seen some pretty bizarre behavior with the Sixers. And we've seen somebody who is willing to throw away a year of his career as he was entering his prime, when he was still trying to get better as a basketball player and set $20 million on fire that he's not getting back. And now he's in a really good situation, right? He's gets to play with Durant, who I think we all think if he's healthy, the road still goes through him. It's either him or Giannis. It's 1A, 1B, and we could argue about that until the cows come home. He's got Steve Nash, beloved guy by all counts, one of the most beloved teammates of the last 20 years, and somebody who I think has kept a pretty even keel during one of the most bizarre 14-month runs a coach has had. And he's got some offensive firepower

where it's not going to matter if he takes three shots in seven game sevens in that series, right? KC, what am I missing? What else is perfect about this for him? I mean, I think with Simmons here, what if Kyrie becomes full-time as well? I mean, we'll see if the New York City vaccine mandate... Which we think might happen soon, yeah.

I mean, surrounding states are doing that. Connecticut did it, so maybe New York at some point will as well. Well, they're lifting the indoor mask mandate, but I don't know that they're changing the vaccine mandate. Not yet for New York. Okay. Yeah. And the mayor of New York has kind of suggested that he's not looking to change that. He suggested

a lot of things. Yes. Yes. Yeah. He has. He suggested a lot of things. Yes. Yes. Yeah. He has. He said, don't follow the science. We'll see how that at 1am.

It rouse. Eric Adams was like, let me tell you something. Follow the science should work out great. Yeah. Sorry. Keep going. Well,

we'll see how things develop in New York. But I mean, for Ben Simmons here, like you're, you're right, Bill, that with Simmons, we are going to find out if he loves basketball. But I think we're also going to find out how adaptable he really is, too, because now he's going to be in a situation where if Kyrie is on the floor, Ben Simmons in the half court is going to have to be that screener, the handoff guy.

When Kyrie is not playing, he'll be more of like a guy the idealized role that clutch has wanted for him for so long the guy who's running the offense and as kevin durant flanking him and seth curry by his side and a bunch of shooters so i mean like he's gonna have to be adaptable and fit into different roles more than ever before and with simmons i'm excited to see that from him i i really think like for so long i've bashedhed Simmons, doesn't shoot, the stuff at LSU you mentioned, but now he's finally in a situation where I don't feel like fit is even

a concern on my mind. It's just about him actually doing it. We're about to really find out a lot about Ben Simmons. The thing is, I still enjoy watching him play basketball. I think what happened in the playoffs was absolutely brutal. You can tell how interesting he is by the fact that we're spending so much time talking about a guy who hasn't play basketball. I think what happened in the playoffs was absolutely brutal. You can tell how interesting he is by the fact that we're spending so much

time talking about a guy who hasn't played basketball this season. And the last time we saw him play basketball was like one of the weirder, more awkward moments in an NBA game that any of us are going to remember is him dumping it off to Thibel. But he is an amazing player to watch. That's

why we're like, oh shit. Well, what if this works? And it's like, we haven't even talked about really what this means for Embiid or whether the Sixers are contenders in the Eastern Conference. Immediately, it's like, do these dudes just now have a 6'10 passing wizard

who loves to D up the opposing team's best offensive player? Mahoney, Harden's not the same guy he was three years ago. How much not of not the same guy he was three years ago. How much not of the same guy is he from three years ago? I think he's not at the point where giving him the ball and clearing out

of his way is enough in itself to make you basically a contending team. He was at that point before. I think now he needs more help. He needs more space. And more importantly, he needs guys around him who can catch and shoot pretty quickly. And that's kind of what I would worry about for the Sixers, especially, you know, Curry kind of has a slower release to begin with.

He's gone now anyway. Do they have enough shooting in terms of guys who are going to get those hot potato last three seconds of the shot clock dishes from James Harden when he can't create, when he can't get where he wants to go? Is that in Tobias Harris's bag? I worry about that a little bit, but then I think about James Harden and Joel Embiid and just the,

if I'm an opposing coach, the idea of having to match up with those guys at the same time is overwhelming to me. And it gives me nightmares just thinking about that. Rob, are you saying that Isaiah Joe's zero points, four fouls in nine minutes against the Mavericks line didn't make you see stars?

I'm saying get ready for a lot more Furkan Korkmaz three feet behind the three-point line threes because they're coming. One way or another, they're coming. I have breaking news. My dad has weighed in on the Harden trade with three words.

Anyone want to guess the three words? I like Derek White. Nets fleeced Philly is my dad's take. Wow. It was a fleecing. I got to say, I really like what they got back for a guy who didn't

want to be here and who made it be there and made it clear that he was leaving. I thought, and maybe in part two, we can talk about some of the reporting of this story. I thought the reporting was absolutely bizarre and that yesterday turned into this Woj versus Windhorst on the same ESPN team, basically with two completely different pieces of info. My info was that it was the Nets wanted Simmons and Curry. And that was the framework. And unless that was the framework, they weren't doing a deal. Those were the two pieces they wanted because the piece that everybody forgets about this is you have KD. You just gave KD an

extension. You're trying to win a title with KD. You still have one of the best players in the league, if not the best player in the league. You still have a responsibility to make a trade that maybe doesn't make you better, but at least doesn't make you worse. So, you know, for me, it's like, all right, if they don't have Joe Harris back, they clearly needed an extra shooter.

Curry gives them that. And Simmons gives them a different look that maybe they actually needed. I don't know. I think it's weird that up until yesterday, we were pretending that both sides weren't talking about the trade. And it's like Sean Marks

and Darrell... This is Woj over and over again. Sean Marks and Darrell Moore have not seriously talked. The two teams were talking. You can say it's like intermediaries, the owners, whatever. But I don't think this was a case of the GMs going, let's hammer this out. Daryl was talking to somebody.

The Sixers are trying to figure it out. And they had this window to get hard. And KOC, I've known Daryl since 2005. He's always had this two superstar theory. I was never convinced he was giving away Simmons. I always felt like worst case scenario, Sabonis. That's why I said a couple weeks ago, at least he's going to get an asset back

that you can potentially spin into something else. But this is the two superstar theory in action. He's always felt like this is a huge league, 30 teams. If I can have two of the top 15, two of the top 12, that's where I want to be. I am not making a trade that makes my odds for the finals go down. Do you feel like the odds for the finals has gone down for Philly? Because Vandal says they're up.

They are now plus six 50 to win the, uh, the finals. Brooklyn is plus four 20. Do you like this version of Philly more than you like whatever the highest potential of Simmons was that they've gotten his head right with Curry

yeah it's not even close say it a couple of times because it's James Harden I hate James Harden and I can't believe he's going to play for the Sixers the Gamblers agree with you Harden I think these last last three four weeks or whatever are we gonna

look back at that and be like oh he deserves an oscar for that because like he's just gonna yeah i mean is he's just gonna start dropping 40 points and start looking like the same guy because we saw him do this in houston he tanked his way out of there now we know he wanted to leave brooklyn for sure but i mean he might have tanked his way out of there. Now we know he wanted to leave Brooklyn for sure. I mean, he might have tanked his way out of here as well. So I think with Harden, I'm not even, like when it comes to evaluating, I'm not even factoring in the last month.

It's really what happened last season and maybe early season before everything went to crap here for Brooklyn. I mean, I think with James Harden, he wants this. He wanted it in Brooklyn, like you said earlier. Got the best behavior from Harden last year. Philly's about to get Harden on his best behavior.

Of course, the odds should go way up. Yeah. Well, the question about the odds isn't, is Philly better? It's, did they make the Nets good to the point that they are now a more serious problem? Because entering into this trade, I think we got to the space, weirdly enough,

where Brooklyn was almost the more desperate team to make a move, which is how guys like Dybul and Maxie are not in it, even though Curry was a priority and it ends up with picks instead. Or Andre Drummond, who we have not mentioned yet, but is also technically in this deal. If we think the Nets are this good, if we think that Simmons is an upgrade for their situation and their fully functional team, I'm not sure what it means for the Sixers to have another team that's that formidable in their way. Yeah, that's one of the weird things about this trade, right?

You would think these are two of the three teams with a chance to get out of the East if you're making your list. I think Chicago would have been on there for me, but I have no idea who's going to be healthy for them in April and May. So I think these are the three best bets. You so rarely see the two teams trade with each other. And plus, Chris, I know you have just decades of animosity with the Nets. I mean,

what a rivalry. Yeah. Who can forget those nights at the Meadowlands with dozens of people in the crowd? 1984 when they upset the Sixers. I mean, lots of memories. You have to take five trains to get to the game. And then like, no, you know, I was kind of thinking about, I was wondering whether you guys felt like the Sixers become, get that much closer to Milwaukee, or is this kind of a sideshow? And there's actually like a pretty big gap between the Bucs and even the Heat and the Nets and the Sixers, even with all this movement,

even with all this talent aboard, but in terms of the totality of the teams, the continuity of the coaching, the style of play, obviously those two teams are really rolling right now. And I have to admit, I'm pretty... I've just been adoring Chicago this season when they have other guys.

So if a healthy Chicago is also in the mix, I don't think it's like a fair complete that this is like, we're going to see these teams. I mean, Joe Allenby might go home in the second round again. You know? Well, the sneaky thing about today, because the Harden trade is going to blow everything out of the water, is the Bucs kind of stole Serge Ibaka for nothing.

And I went to a Clipper game last week where Serge looked like Serge. I thought he was at the point of his career where it was basically over, too many injuries. I didn't know what was going on with him. The guy I saw last week was like, this guy could absolutely play in a playoff series and have an impact. He's exactly what Milwaukee needed.

They stole him. And in general, I think we've all felt like Milwaukee, forget about the record, like they're going to be there when it actually matters and they still have Giannis 100%. But putting Ibaka on that team, I still think that's the team to beat.

So let's go around the world. KOC, who's your team to beat in the East right now? Philadelphia. Wow, you are so in on this. I can't believe this. Hey, Kev, do you think it's Philadelphia now

or Philadelphia after the buyout market or at the end of the day? Do you think that they need a little bit more? Yeah, I mean, it's always good to add more. I just think with Embiid and Harden, those two guys together with their ability to alternate interior perimeter, besides Milwaukee,

that's one of the things that makes Milwaukee so dominant is they can get buckets with Middleton and Holiday on the perimeter. Giannis can do everything inside. I just think the variety of ways that they're going to be able to beat you is going to be really, really, really hard for some of these other teams in the East to stop.

Like with the Nets, they're better. Who is their guy for Embiid for a seven-game series? I think you can ask that same question even with Miami and Chicago like I think and beat is that much of a force add in one of the game's best perimeter scores

to me they're the favorite today on paper on paper Mahoney who do you have I'm still bucks when those guys are healthy they're amazing and I just have visions of drew holiday going against James Harden defensively for a seven-game series

and just making his life totally miserable. And every ache and pain in your hamstring, let me tell you, it gets 50 times worse when Drew Holiday is guarding you. I would love to watch that.

Chris, before we get your answer, I was thinking about for years, it was like the West was the loaded. When we got to the playoffs, like round two in the West would be good. Sometimes you could even get one good round one series because they might have five really good teams or six.

It's going to happen this year in the East. Yeah, you look at the East, like the standings right now, where we didn't talk about Miami yet. And assuming they're going to be healthy too. And we could have Miami, Milwaukee, Chicago, this beloved Cleveland team, Philly.

Who just keep winning. Like, yeah. Philly's five in Toronto. They made, I didn't totally understand the fad young thing. I thought if they were going to use the dragger thing, I thought they could do a little better than that.

We'll talk about that later. And then you have the Celtics at seven, Brooklyn at eight. So there's a chance Brooklyn, there's a world in which they could play Miami, Milwaukee, and Philly. And so like, who knows where Brooklyn's record can end, but you might have to actually play all three of those teams, all three rounds. I think the mix and match with the East is going to be incredible. So part of me is like, I don't really care. I have, I've had trouble getting into this regular

season and the storylines just because it feels like the playoffs are going to be substantial in a lot of ways. And then the West, there's less good teams, but same thing. But man, we're going to have one awesome first round matchup. Yeah. Really, we're going to be like, wow, how is this the first round? That year, what was it? San Antonio-Phoenix?

Like 2008, or we had San Antonio and the Clippers in 2015 where you're like, wow, this could have been a conference finals. I think that's going to happen with this. That first round in the Eastern Conference has a spillover effect

into the second half of the regular season because teams might be jockeying a little bit for seeding and teams also might not want to sleepwalk into the playoffs and get tuned up in the first round.

You know, this is not going to be a cakewalk Daniel Gafford Wizards team you see in the first round. This is not going to be a cakewalk Daniel Gafford Wizards team you see in the first round. You're going to get somebody pretty good. There's no cakewalk. The Celtics will be the worst of the eight playoff teams. Think about that. They might not even make it if there's a playing thing.

I wouldn't want to play Toronto in a playoff series. Are you saying that Boston is going to go into the playoffs being like, you think you're better than me? How do we explain the Siakam thing? The guy had like 27, 15, and 8 the other night or something. But all of a sudden, he looks like a top 20 guy in the league. I think, and then you throw like Charlotte and Atlanta are the 9 and 10 right now.

And then it drops. I think everybody else realizes they're out. The plan is going to be insane. The plan is going to be absolutely sick. And if Durant doesn't come back for another week, Brooklyn's going to be in the plan. Like lock it down. It's happening.

And if, because if Durant doesn't get back for three, four weeks, that really takes us to the last 15, 16 games of the season. I mean, so Ramona tweeted a couple of minutes ago about Simmons is going to be working with a therapist in

Brooklyn and he's really excited to get a new start. He's already talked with the Dram. But like I don't think Simmons is playing tomorrow the way like Sabonis played for the Kings last night. I think it's going to be a little while before he comes back. So there could be some nights where they don't have Kyrie Durant or Simmons out there. It's going

to be Seth Curry, Andre Drummond and Patty Mills. And you have right now they're 29 and 25 in the eight spot. They're only three games ahead of the Hawks. And who knows? Right now it's 11-11 as we're taping this. The Hawks are the wild card for me because I don't know, if you looked at their tax stuff? They're going to get crushed by the tax next year. It's either now or in the summer if they even care about that. I don't know.

Brooklyn fell to 10. They would have to win two playing games on the road and then they would go against the one seed, which could be Miami, Milwaukee, who knows? Or it could be Philly. Harden could just show up and, which could be Miami, Milwaukee, who knows? Or it could be Philly. Harding could just show up and Philly could be the one seed by the time we're done with this. Right.

Chris, you're going to be insufferable, I can feel it. No, I'll be measured, Bill. I think I'll be pretty magnanimous. And I'm always interested in your constructive feedback about how things could be going better. Appreciate that. All right. We're going to wrap up part one. Mahoney, you're leaving. We're going to bring in Waz. Mahoney's going to come back for the last part. KOC and Chris are staying for this one. When we come back, it'll be around 1120

Pacific time and hopefully we'll get some more trades. Chris, Kevin, Rob, great to see you guys. Appreciate it. Thank you.