The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

In Part 1 of our NBA trade deadline special, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to break down the early trades of the day, including the Knicks’ added shooting making them a scarier team in the East (1:54), Gordon Hayward to OKC (22:18), Buddy Hield to the Sixers (29:35) and why the Raptors are trading like it’s a fantasy football league (44:14). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, it's not Christmas, it's NBA trade deadline day, and we're doing part one of a multi-part podcast next. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports, I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right, there's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday night hockey

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We're going to break down everything that has happened in the past 18 to 24 hours in part one of this podcast. First, our friends from ProJet. All right, it's 9.05 Pacific time on Trade Deadline Day. The trade deadline coming in a couple of hours. It looked like it was going to be the worst trade deadline we've had in a while. And then a flurry of trades. Ryan Rossell is in Vegas we've had in a while. And then a flurry of trades. Ryan Rossello is in Vegas. I'm in Los Angeles. We're going to do at least two parts today. This is part one.

If there's a mega trade between part one and part three, which will be winners and losers, we'll do a part two. Big winner so far, Rossello. The Knicks. So they get OG Ananobi and Precious and Boyan Bogdanovich and Alec Burks, and they don't have to touch their picks, and they don't have to give up anyone

basically in their top three if you think Robinson's the third most important guy they had. Just getting this for Bogdanovich, they traded Grimes and Fournier and Flynn and two second-round picks for Bogdanovich and Burks. What an awesome trade. They still have all their firsts left. What was your reaction? Well, it's a

no-brainer because you're just adding extra guys. I've always liked Bogdanovich. He's 40% from three. He was really good last year. He's just an incredible shooter and he's got a lot of size. It's a playoff experience. Yeah, right. Like that Pacer series. He was the number

one option against the Celtics years ago and you were like, okay, you guys you guys probably aren't going to win this series if Bogdanovich is number one option, but he's just a better offensive player

than any piece that they've moved out here. Here's my question for you though. Do you think he closes in a Tibbs lineup in a playoff game? So I was trying to figure that out. I went to the game Saturday night when they had a bunch of injuries and it was so clear that it's like Brunson needed help and maybe another, a second crater. So I, Bogdanovich is perfect for

that. So if we went Brunson, Randall, OG, which is Mark, those three in with a big guy. Then it's Bogdanovich or Dante as the fifth, right? Depending on what the matchup is, which is pretty nice flexibility. I mean, the big thing for me is when Brunson's off the court now, they have somebody they can run the offense through. And that was the one thing they were missing with the quickly trade,

which turned out to be a great trade. But they can run two six-minute stretches in each half through Bogdanovich and be pretty good. I'm really high on him. Did you watch the Celtics-Pistons game this year when the Pistons almost ended their home streak? They were running everything through him and Cade

in the fourth quarter. The Celtics have always had problems with him. I don't know what it is, but he always likes going against them. If the big picture here, the Celtics are the team it is, but he always likes going against them. If the big picture, the Celtics are the team you need to beat, he's going to help. I liked it. I thought it was a really good trade. And they also kept all their

firsts for if Mitchell decides this summer, like, hey, thanks Cleveland, it's time for me to go. And then they'll have him there. He's been on fire, too. I mean, in January, I think he was, what, 46% from three the whole time. So, you know, when you look at the full Bogdanovich package, it's not a ton of rebounds, not a ton of assists necessarily.

But the shooting has just held up his entire career. And he's also older than people realize too. Like, I think he's, what, 35 in April? Because he didn't come over right away when he was drafted. So he got in the league later. But then you look at, you know, granted he missed time this year, but with Detroit, clearly he was going to get more options than he was going to get with New York.

But I do wonder defensively, even with his shooting, and I think you're totally on point with the Brunson of like, hey, can somebody else be some kind of like offensive release valve for me if things get bogged down or depending on the staggered rotations and how they want to run the offense. But knowing Tibbs, when I think about like DiVincenzo and Hart defensively as options in a playoff game, I just had this image in my head of Bogdanovich watching it. Right. Well, I will say for him, we've seen like, remember he had that one stretch when he was actually like half decent going against LeBron defensively. It wasn't like it is the disaster. It would have seemed on paper. Like he at least tries. I think Tibbs, you know, Fournier Tibbs is just like, I'm out. Like the game I went to last weekend.

It's not all those injuries. And Tibbs is like, I'm still not playing Fournier. Fuck off. I can't handle. They want guys who are at least going to try on defense. So, um,

I, you know, he's got size. There's certain people you can throw them on. He's not going to be able to stop the, like Luca, but not, you know,

not many guys are. He's been a net negative almost his entire career defensively. not, you know, not many guys are. He's been a net negative almost his entire career defensively. So, you know, depending on if you think of it as a size matchup

and look between OG and the big. But he's not a sieve though, I guess is my point. He can at least like, he's got size, he knows where to go and he's not,

you know, teams all hunt him, but it's not like, oh my God, we have to get this guy off the court. I don't think he's that bad. No, I don't. I'm just thinking the only reason I'm even asking this is because of tips, but that's the only reason that the trade is a slam dunk. They now,

when you think about offensive options and the second unit stuff, if they want to go that way with him and the way Devin Gentles played out of his mind, and it feels like heart just kind of impacts games, uh, just a bunch of different ways. And you probably felt like Hart and Grimes were a little redundant anyway. So it's a no-brainer considering what they gave up. And I think the best part about McDonavich, which I think at some point we should talk about

the Philly part of this, because Philly was rumored to be in play for him, but I think the Embiid injury changes probably a lot of like Morey's options, and then you've got to figure out like, okay, what could the projected cap space be for Philadelphia and all this stuff? The fact that Bogdanovich is $19 million next year, and I know it's not even fully guaranteed. It's locked in next year, yeah.

Right, but you'd have to think that Bogdanovich at $19 million versus what you'd be spending for that kind of player, even at an advanced age, it could be more than $19 million and you'd be extending it for probably three years. So there's a lot of cost certainty there where I'd be shocked if he's not. I don't think they're just going to do the $2 million and then make him a free agent. I would think that this is, but they have that option if they want to, but I still think that's a really good number for what he provides. Well, remember we would talk about this when we did the Sunday pods, how the Celtics were in that stretch of a couple of years where they never had the right contract for trades. It was always like they had giant contracts and small contracts and nothing in the middle. So the Knicks had this 48 contract that they had to move before the deadline,

because it's a trade chip. You got to turn into a player. You're going to lose it at the end of the year. They turn into Bogdanovich, but it's also a trade ship next year for them. Right. Worst case scenario, it's an expiring a year from now. Um, and somebody that can help them and some, you know, and down the stretch in the playoff games and then they get Berks out of it. I'm not a huge Berks fan. I just, I, I've never been like, oh man,

I wish we had Alec Burks. Really? I've never been a huge fan, but he is shooting 40% from three this year. Now he's playing on the shit Pistons team and whatever. None of the games have been anything, but if you're replacing Grimes, Dante is getting most of those minutes and heart.

Grimes was completely expendable for them and they at least have somebody they can put in the corner who can make some threes. I don't know. So you like him more than I do, I guess. I just always have felt like Alex Burks has had these moments where you're like, this guy can score.

He just... I think he's had a lot of stretches, and granted he's been on, what, six teams now? He's been on, what, six teams now? Well, he's been... Utah, Cleveland, Sacramento, Golden State, Philly, New York. Seven. New York again.

And by the way, he was already on the Knicks in 21 and 22. That's when I liked him too. I'm not telling you, Alec Burks, you're going to be running plays for him at any point in the playoffs. I'm not saying any of those things. But there's just certain guys that just seem to always get some buckets and he'll have he throughout his entire career when I've watched I'll be like you know what that guy's got like a nice mid-range turnaround so if he's in this deal I can only imagine Monte Williams

going you guys are killing me for my you know how am I supposed, how am I supposed to get the 15 wins? Well, they traded like five threes a game, and they traded like almost 33 points of offense. Good. That's what they should have been doing this year. Yeah, and they're bad, and now they're almost guaranteed to be a bottom four team. Burke says your ninth or tenth guy is fine.

I still feel like they need one more big dude. And I'll be interested to see. I kept hearing Nick Richards with them, who I really like. And I think could be an interesting deadline piece. We'll see if he goes today. But I still want them to get a little more size. Big picture, though. And I can't wait to make fun of

Detroit, but we'll hold that thought. Big picture, like, you know, I've been worried about this Knicks team from a Celtics fan standpoint. And now you look at their top nine or their top 10 is basically Brunson, Randall, Oji, Hart, DDV, Bogdanovich, Hartenstein, and Robinson. When Robinson comes back as the center combo and Precious, and then Burks is the 10th. And that's a team that could hang with the Celtics in a playoff series. Like it is.

And they're going to be tough and they're going to be hard to go through. They're going to be really good at home. They have a closer. They have OG to throw at Tatum. They have some size stuff that I think would be a little bit of an issue if Porzingis is healthy for that series.

But for the most part, they got a two seed and they didn't have to see the Celtics till the Eastern Finals. I think it's a legit threat. I really do. I'm not, like,

things that worried me about the Celtics team are the coaching stuff, the depth, the Porzingis injury potential, and then the stuff that happens in the last five minutes of the game and the decision making. And this is the type of team that I would be afraid of for them. Am I too panicky? Maybe a little. I mean, don't you think it'd still be surprising if this next team

were in the NBA finals? Yeah. But I don't love anyone in the East. I mean, the Celtics have like a five-game lead in the East, and Cleveland is now basically the closest team to them. Yeah, they're the two-seed. Nobody talks about them. I mean, they found a way to stay above water here and not just above water, win every single game while all those guys were out, and now all the guys are back.

And I'm still stung from that Knicks series with them last year where I'm like they're just going to have too much firepower for them and it's like nope actually their offense is going to look terrible it's going to look like mobley and allen actually in a playoff series it's just too many non-scorers out there depending on who the fifth guy is after garland and mitchell and yet cleveland like all this love that we're giving new york, Cleveland didn't even have two of their most important four players and still did this. And I,

you know, I, I hate the kind of like, Oh, you need to do this more. You need to talk about them more, but they're the two seed. But I think we're all really just stung.

It's all like TBD with them because of that Knicks series. Well, both of us felt like, what is this team? What's their identity? Mitchell Garland. Let's figure that out. Moby Allen. Can they play together? And, let's figure that out. Mobley,

Allen, can they play together? And then those two guys went out and they kind of settled into some identity that I just feel like they hadn't found before. Now it's clearly Mitchell's team. So the other guys come back, they have to fit into that. And Allen got unleashed. And now it's like, all right, Mobley, anything you give us is a bonus, but

he's been great since he's been back. Yeah, he's been good. So a little pressure's off on him. But yeah, that team's interesting. If you had to rank the Celtics competitors, would you still have the Bucs first? Yeah. And who would you have second with the Embiid in question here?

The Knicks. And Cavs fourth, Philly fifth? I can't get over that Knicks-Cavs series. You know, if they didn't play each other last year and the Knicks got eliminated by somebody else, then I'd be sitting here going, hey, we've seen Mitchell have insane playoff runs, but Brunson shatters through any limitation

you ever put on him. But when it comes to regular season playoff stuff, even when we get out to the Western part of this thing, I just have a hard time buying into something that I've never really seen be successful in the playoffs before. And even with Milwaukee having the doc records since he's been hired, it's going to take a little time. But they have, for a team with that kind of record,

I can't remember ever watching a team that has that great of a record that has a moment once every 10 days. You're like, what the hell is wrong with you guys? And yet, because I've seen what Giannis is capable of doing that, I still have a hard time sitting here being like, yeah, I think I'll pick the Knicks in seven against the Bucks. Would you? Would you pick him?

Like right now, you're picking the Knicks against the Bucks. I don't like Milwaukee at all. Like at all. So you'd pick the Knicks in seven against the Bucs. Would you? Would you pick them? Like right now, you're picking the Knicks against the Bucs in series? I don't like Milwaukee at all. Like at all. So you'd pick the Knicks? I'd pick the Knicks against the Bucs, yeah. At this point. Until the Bucs can show us they can play well for like three weeks in a row. I mean, to me, their record,

I've personally watched them steal six, seven games where you're like, how the fuck did they just win that game? They played like crap, but they don't even seem happy after. But they look like one of those NFL teams, you know, like the Vikings two years ago when the Vikings were like 13 and four and we're all like, eh, no way. This is not a 13 and four team. The Vikings had never done it before.

Like you're talking about how did they pull out some of those close games? I've watched some of those games too. It's because then Giannis is like this unsolvable thing and so when i think about the playoff series and you're like is is new york four times out of seven i don't like when teams every couple weeks just lose by 30 or fall behind by 35 it's like the worst side in the nba when you can't make it two weeks without like getting just annihilated by somebody. Makes me nervous. Look, I'm not telling you you're wrong on that one.

Because certain nights you're sitting there on league pass, you just go, wait, what's the Bucs score? And then every now and then you check the standings again, you go, this record's incredible. Wait, they're 33-16? How did this happen? So the Knicks, incredible front office maneuvering here. And on top of it, they proved one of my favorite adages, when in doubt, trade with the dumbest team in the league. And I guess the question is, is Detroit,

have they been the dumbest team in the league for at least a few months or maybe even longer than that? And are they clearly the dumbest team in the league now? Because I think they are. I just refuse to believe that trading Bogdanovich and Burks, the best you could do is Quentin Grimes and like a second round pick.

That was what those guys were worth? I don't see it. But I don't agree with really anything they do. I mean, you go back to last summer, like even that Marvin Bagley contract where we were like, wait, that was like three years? That wasn't just like a one-year deal

with a team option for a second one? The Monty Williams for 80 million? Like everything they do, I disagree with. What they did to Jaden Ivey this year? Like there's a reason their record sucks. There's a reason I don't feel good about their future. There's a reason they're probably going to blow it up after the year and bring in a whole new bunch of people.

But if I was a Pistons fan, I'd be like, why are we letting these guys even trade? These guys just shouldn't be allowed to trade. Let's take it to the summer and start over with an actual vision. I don't get it. The Monty Williams thing is one of the dumbest decisions I've seen from a team in years.

So it's not just this year. There's certain things when you look at the roster, roster construction where you're like, what's going on? But then there's also some players that they've drafted that I really liked. So I don't think it's as if like they were so high on Duren and they were right. They were right about it. I think there's a chance they may even have taken him instead of Ivy and then they were able to trade back in and then get Duren. And whenever you have to hire a coach as the headline thing, and it's not even knocking money, but if you're paying money more than anyone's ever been paid to be a head coach, that should be somebody in the room going, wait, what are we doing? Right. Wait, it's not Eric Spolstra? Yeah. Just to be clear. And then when you pay a coach that much,

he has even less interest in the development part of it. Yeah. Because that's the circular thing that will happen for as long as basketball exists. The front office loves all the young guys they've drafted, they've scattered, they've put all of this time into evaluating these guys. You get that one pick, you take them,

and it's like, okay, cool. And obviously they loved him enough to even take the guy. And the coach is like, well, I don't want to lose all the time. And so with Monty having this much money and this much power and this length of contract, he's like, I don't really have to prove myself to the front office because I'm the most powerful guy in the organization. I'm not going anywhere. Right. And so there were so many moments this year. I'm like, what are they doing with this closing rotation? So, you know, this year... Everything was nuts.

And now you see the way he's playing the last six, seven weeks. It's just... Everything was nuts. The Knicks right now are third on FanDuel for Eastern Conference odds. 7-1. Milwaukee's plus 220 and Boston is

plus 130. The Cavs are 9-1 and that's been climbing and the Heat are still 18-1. And Detroit is infinity to one because they're probably going to... I don't even know if they're the worst team because we've had such a nadir of bad teams this year. But they just lost

32 points. I assume now this is the Cunningham-Ivy show for them. But that's what it should be. It should be one more year of between Duren, Ivy, and Cunningham. What do we have? That should be the main goal next year. Not, hey, Killian hasn't made a shot in four years. Let's run the offense room again.

Let's do that. By the way, I saw do that. Uh, clearly, by the way, I saw when, when that story leaked that Killian is feeling like maybe he needs a new team or whatever that was. I was like, this is the most Rosillo story of the year.

Killian Hayes being like, maybe trade me to somewhere where I could get a better look. If that happens for four years, you should be in the G league. That happens a, though. If you've done nothing for four years, you should be in the G League. That happens a lot, though, when the guys' rookie contracts are coming up and they're just thinking, like, I've got all these minutes. I've had all these shot opportunities.

So, like, what's my next contract going to look like? So then you'll see. Like, there's sometimes I think teams get rid of guys they don't even want to get rid of, but the coach won't play them anyway. But in this case, he was playing most of the times. They have to figure out who they are with these lottery picks.

I think Stewart's been terrific for him, or he's somebody else the teams would want. But it felt, look, you can't just have minimum rookie scale guys and then get to the cap or the salary minimum. And there is value having veterans around. I'm not into the idea that everybody's supposed to be 20, 21 years old, the entire team when you're rebuilding, because you need to have guys that accept their roles and everything. But the most important thing is the resources that you've used on these top draft picks. And it felt like for a good chunk of the season, Monte Williams just wasn't super interested in that.

I don't know. It was awful. We're going to take a break. We have lots more to talk about. Happy Super Bowl to all who celebrate from FanDuel America's number one sports book. If you're like me, Super Bowl Sunday, all about scoring the best seat on the couch, grabbing your favorite football snacks, placing some super bets.

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Bonus issue does not withdraw. But bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste.

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90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring,

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you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. The sneaky trade of the day so far. We still have at least a couple hours left, but OKC got Gordon Hayward from Charlotte. They gave up Trey Manns, Bertans, Micic, who I kind of liked as a backup guard. I wonder if Charlotte will flip him and draft compensation that we don't know yet, but will probably be a second rounder. So Gordon Hayward, 15, five and five this year, 36% from three. A vet, we all felt like OKC needed to get a little older. I can't totally say he's had a ton of playoff experience. Guess how many playoff games Gordon Hayward has played?

Seven. Oh, it's actually higher. 29. Oh, I don't know. I just thought he's been in the league since like 2009 or 2010. I would have guessed like 50. Man was the 18th pick in 2021, but was buried behind some guys.

Wallace basically grabbed a bunch of minutes and time, and Wallace is excellent. Is Hayward in the closing lineup for them, in your opinion? No. Because it would be the giddy spot, right? If he's playing last five minutes, it would be in giddy spot, would be's playing if he's playing last five minutes it would be in giddy spot would be my guess i'm a little surprised by this one yeah tell us

well maybe they were that worried about all the a our average age is now higher so history is on our side for nba championships obviously that was stat muse ismuse is going to... We're better with Stapmuse now. That was not the motivation. There's just so many players on the Sunday roster that we like, but I would have thought the main priority was trying to get another piece some size.

You mean somebody taller than 6'7"? Yeah. So, like, yeah, I guess you could say Hayward has a little bit of experience here, but I don't know that any of us look at him and go,

oh, man, he's been through the playoff wars, so that helps with everything. I don't know how often. I mean, is it just a better outlet than Giddy? Can we bring in Conspiracy Bill for a second? Please do. Is it possible they flip Hayward in a one-for-one for a big guy? Why would they have done it?

Because they get all the salaries, they add those up, and it's still lower than Hayward, who's making over 30, and maybe this allows them to get somebody in the 30s. That was the only thing. I agree with you. I felt like either this was move number one

and move number two they haven't made yet, or maybe Portland's like, hey, DeAndre Hayton, any interest? And OKC is just going to say, fuck it, and get somebody like that. Because there are a couple of expensive centers out there. So I think it's one or the other. I can't believe they would, you know, they have a legitimate chance to win the title. I can't believe they wouldn't get another big guy.

You can't go into March with, unless they feel like there's a buyout guy that they're grabbing. Nick Richards is still sitting there as a $5 million guy for teams like the Knicks and OKC and a couple of the other contenders. And I still feel like he's going to be heard from today, but I'm with you.

This either has to be first to two moves or they flip Hayward for a bigger guy. Yeah. There's plenty that could happen that we still aren't aware of here, but I would think with hours to go before the deadline that you would have just gotten the third team involved, unless there's some part of this that I don't understand, which is always in play. But Micic was out of the rotation. He couldn't make threes. He was 37% internationally from three and he just didn't make any threes for him. Yeah, I still kind of like, I liked something about him.

I'd like to, I feel like he's going to have a moment on some team somewhere at some point. But you're right. He couldn't hit threes. How many teams do you think can actually win the title? I know you did a couple weeks ago.

You did your teams that I think could maybe win the title or whatever that was. But if I had to say, these are the finals teams right now, and then we have a group underneath them that are either one move away or need some luck. For me, it's like, I only have three teams that I think could actually win the title right now. And then I have a bunch of people underneath them. But for me, it's Denver and the Clippers and the Celtics. Those are the only teams that right now I feel like I can absolutely see them in the finals. Everybody else, I could absolutely see them in the finals, comma, but. And then there's a but. And those are the three that I don't have a but for. That's the best list as far as the definitive hard line of it all. I did the, if this team won and in June, you wouldn't say how the hell did that happen. Yeah.

Then I expanded it out to nine. And I included Minnesota. I included OKC. I even put Phoenix in there. I think I still had Milwaukee in there. I think I had Philly in there before Embiid. So it was a much longer list. But if you're going to be like-

Did you have Miami in there or no? No. Would you add the Knicks there now as a comma but? Yeah. After those three, I still think there's a gap. I'd also like to see what it looks like. This run has been terrific. And I know it's a bit like Whenever you look at Phoenix stats, you go, okay, what Phoenix stat actually matters here? I but they have an incredible record against the teams that aren't any good. So is their record against

teams that are over 500? Is that fair considering how well, like Ananobi's been at a level beyond anything he's ever done in Toronto. That's how well he's played for them. So yeah, I'm okay with it, but I just want, like, I'd like to see it for another month. Instead of these months where it's just, hey, this one month, this team's incredible. This happens to us every single month where there's a team. Especially February, March.

Right, except with the Clippers, it's two months. So it was a little easier to buy in. The Clippers is more real, I think. Would you put New Orleans as a comma-butt team? Yeah. They're pretty impressive last night. I didn't go, but I watched the second half as I watched The Godfather at the same time.

The Godfather on Quips Pelicans. Pretty fun night. I know. You were locked in the boat. Great times. Great times. I followed your tweets. I was having a blast.

I was just sitting. I turned the TV off to read your tweets. I appreciate that. I just want to point out with the Suns, one of the many reasons I don't have them as a comma butt team yet. Nurkic is eight games away from his career high in games since 2019. He's played 48 games. His record since 2019 is 56. I'm just a little dubious. I'm dubious of nine months out of Nurkic. Doesn't seem that realistic to me.

Call me nuts. Maybe they'll flip him today in the trade deadline. I think he's good for them. I like the way they've used those guys. And I also think they tried it against Atlanta when they lost that game. They tried to come back. Vogel just pulled the plug on it and they tried to go small.

And it didn't work. But I imagine that's something that they they try to come back Vogel just pulled the plug on and they try to go small and it didn't work but I imagine that's something that they would like to unveil at certain matchups in the playoffs too I'm just not buying the durability with them all right next trade that happened Philly just basically got buddy healed for a

six pack of of Michelob Ultra and some gummy bears and I don't know, some Cheetos. I don't understand it. I get it from Indiana's point of

we should probably trade Buddy Heald. Nia Smith's been really good for us. We have Matherin. Those guys need to play. We have a little bit of a glut. We have a guy playing for a contract next year.

If he's not getting 35 minutes a game, there's, you know, it gets a little unhappy of a glut. We have a guy playing for a contract next year. If he's not getting 35 minutes a game, there's, you know, it gets a little unhappy. So let's move Buddy. Expiring deal. But is Morris and Korkmas

and three second rounders, like, is that the price for a guy who literally could shoot 50% in the playoffs from three? Doesn't it feel like

nobody's liked Buddy Heald forever? But they've all liked him. What is it about Buddy Heald? Yeah. He's like one of the real housewives that all the other housewives just repeatedly turn on. And you're like, what does she do?

She seems fine. Why do they hate her so much? Yeah, I don't understand it either. I like Buddy Heald. Guess what? I like guys who make 45% of their threes. Good guy having a playoff series. It's the lowest minutes he's played since like 17.

It's the lowest shot attempts. He's under 10 shot attempts per game this year. And yeah, they had him down to like 26 minutes a game this year because of Neesmith who doesn't miss threes. I guess with Heald, it just felt like, hey, we need shooting. We need shooting. Shooting's awesome.

Everybody wants shooting. But as soon as I saw the trade go down, when it finally happened it just felt like, hey, we need shooting. We need shooting. Shooting's awesome. Everybody wants shooting. But as soon as I saw the trade go down, when it finally happened, I'm like, why would the Pacers be okay then from moving on from him? Maybe if they look at it as like, look, we're going to lose him anyway. We're going to re-sign Siakam. We've got to start figuring out the math. We're in peace long-term. They've got another lottery pick in Walker. They don't even play.

So it might just be about, hey, we didn't have a long-term. They've got another lottery pick in Walker who they didn't even play. So it might just be about, hey, we didn't have a long-term for this. But for a team, the Pacers that are making moves to just kind of be a now team while also trying to figure out who they are moving forward, I think there's a little hint there that tells you, yeah, he's alright, but he started losing minutes and shots to our guys here. So do what you want. Well, so now they have left Halliburton and Siakam. They have Turner.

They have Neesmith, who's been terrific this year. Mathren, Nemhard, Toppin, Jalen Smith, and Walker basically as their nucleus, depending on whether they do one more thing. Philly, Embiid if he comes back, Maxine Harris, Batum, Covington, they still have his swings. They still have Melton. They've healed.

They still have Beverly. Reed, they have a roster spot for a buyout guy. And it feels like they're playing both sides of the fence here. They didn't really give up anything for healed. They don't know when Embiid's coming back and they're just going to play it by ear. I am skeptical that Embiid comes back. Where do you stand on that one? It just seems

improbable that they're like, no, no, go out there and say, well, just play yourself back into shape with your meniscus issue. I don't see it. I don't know how you feel that comfortable already saying that, though. I just said I don't see it. I'm not saying how you feel that comfortable already saying that, though. I just said I don't see it.

I'm not saying I'm ruling it out. It just seems unlikely. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if you're telling me somebody that's had a long string of injury history, and I always kind of add this in, I can't believe he's been this healthy throughout his career, to be honest with you. So you throw this in, and then all the shit that he dealt with

with the Denver game, and then, hey, he's significantly hurt. You could see how hurt he was in the Warriors game before he actually got hurt again. He had the Draymond thing and then Kaminga lands on him and then he actually has to leave the game. But that entire game, he wasn't even close. He wasn't even close and he's out there playing. So I don't know how that's supposed to look. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but I think it had a lot to do with the motivation because what do you do if you're the Sixers? You have

the maxi decision, which is a no-brainer. You have all of this cap space. What's the maxi money going to be? That's like $250,000? Unless he makes like third-team all-NBA, then it could be even higher? I don't know off the top of my head. It's just going to be whatever it is.

Whatever it's going to be is what it is. Just that's he's, he's hit that level now. So there was always this rumor that they had like maybe a play for Bogdanovich or maybe one of the pieces from Brooklyn, the names that get thrown around all the time. And this is the part of the cap space part. Like when you look at the free agent roster and you go all right what's actually out there because it's like okay well is there a trade to be made where we we cut into that cap space a little bit but it gives me certainty on who the

player is i i don't know if there's part of the the negotiation it's not even negotiation i just say like if you're talking out and you're maury and the entire staff you're like okay like what do we do now do we keep trying to get better right now or do we try to do something that's pre-emptive and has like we do our summer transaction right now knowing exactly who it is instead of hoping during the free agency period which is again that free agency period sucks and I hate when these sites list the restricted free agents as top free agents. Just take them out because anybody that is that good is just going to be matched anyway. So they're not even free agents. Well, and then you have from a Celtics standpoint where they have White and Holiday, who both... Holiday's player option is like $39 million. He might actually opt into that, but White is going to opt out.

And I just think it's unrealistic they're going to be able to keep both of those guys. And if they do, the money is going to be insane for both of them. Like if they could do what they did with Horford with Holiday and be like, all right, opt out of the 39. We'll give you four years for 110 and we can stretch it out.

You'll make less the first year. But I do think somebody could come in and godfather offer white. Maybe it's the Sixers. By the way, Max C is eligible for five years over $200 million. So it's not, I don't think it's $250 million. But if he made All-NBA, that I think gets tweaked a little bit. But I don't think he will. Next trade that happened.

Man, Toronto's up to stuff, and I don't really fully understand it. They're 17-33, and they traded the worst of basically a Clippers or OKC first this year, which would be in the high 20s. And a couple expirings. Then got back Olenek and Agbaje. Both of them I like. And the only thing I can think of with this is Toronto is a top six protected first to San Antonio. So they could either have made their team much worse

or try to make their team better so that wasn't as bad of a pick as maybe it could have been. Utah just seems like, because they also traded Fontecchio to Detroit and got a second rounder back and a guy you like. But it seems like Utah is just

trying to clear bodies out so their young guys can play. And Toronto, I don't know what Toronto's doing. What's Toronto doing? I don't know. I don't know what Toronto's doing. What's Toronto doing? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, clearly, it feels like people make jokes about certain NBA teams going after players

from certain colleges or certain agencies. You know, the stuff that's happened over the year with the Knicks, like, oh, it's all the CAA guys, or hey, the Lakers are all these clutch guys, or they want to add more clutch guys. I don't know if they're just going Team Canada and saying, let's do it. With RJ coming back and the Linux.

Linux is a nice player. Is Wiggs in play now for them? They could probably have him. They could get him today if they want to. I don't know what the matching deal would be with that. But I don't really know. I don't know what they... Clearly, they wanted to do their work before

and get all this stuff done. And I think you're also seeing like the quickly experience at 32 minutes a game instead of like 22 minutes a game. Who could have guessed? Yeah, isn't a ton of fun for everybody else. No history in the league of that happening. Can I just read you Toronto's top 10? Sure.

It's super weird. Scotty Barnes, Bruce Brown, Quickly, RJ Barrett, Agbaje, Olenek, Purtle, Schroeder, and Grady Dick. I don't know what the fuck team that is. That's like a team you draft in fantasy or something. Bizarre. And I don't know if they got a linic because maybe now they're going to move Pirtle.

And I was thinking maybe that's the next OKC piece, but I don't even know if OKC has the contract to throw back at that. But they're just all over the map. Are you a Pirtle file? I would be for OKC. I'm not a fan of him at $20 million a year, But they're just all over the map. Are you a profile? I would be for OKC. I'm not a fan of him at 20 million a year,

but at least he's a big body that can bang with some of the centers. You're going to have to play. If you're going to try to win four rounds, you're gonna have to play a center at one point. I mean, that's why we didn't talk about the Celtics trade for Tillman. I feel like they made that trade like specifically for a Yoko series. Right. It's like,

we might have to play yokage we don't have that type of guy who's not going to stop yokage but at least is that lower to the ground thick guy that he seems to at least struggle with a tiny bit i feel like that's why they got him yeah i think beyond yokage too it's okay, what's Horford going to look like where they've done a really proactive job of trying to just make sure he's more ready for the long haul? Because it felt like Horford fell off a cliff at one point in the playoffs last year. The season that they got Horford last year, I couldn't believe. And then at one point, we're like, I guess this thing's over. And then, yeah, Porzingis, I'm always going to be worried that he's going to be hurt all the time.

So they added another body to probably take away those cornet minutes, which is probably their number one priority. Yeah. They were the KP Horford insurance was their number one priority. I think they looked at your guy, Najee Marshall. I'm sure they looked at Nick Richards, but Tillman,

Verno, Verno, big Sterling scouting report from him yesterday from Memphis. So he's a great guy. Always smile on his face. Three kids, an adult. Just like a good guy to have on a team. And I think the Celtics chemistry is so good.

I do think they care about that this year. Like if we're bringing in anybody, it has to be a good guy that fits in with the good guys that we have. Because I think that's been a big reason why they've been succeeding. Everybody likes each other. You don't always get that. Right. But say Boston-Denver is in the finals.

If everybody's healthy, how many minutes is Tillman playing a game? Maybe not any. Forgive me, everybody's healthy. But poor Zingas, I've been talking about it a lot. It's really something. Day to day, it's just like, oh no. The game I went to Sunday, he banged knees with somebody and he was limping around. I was just like, oh my God, no.

He's just really tall. I feel the same way about Wemba Nyama. People pass a certain height level and you're just scared for them all the time, especially when there's people jumping and people landing. I like the Toman trade. They certainly didn't give up anything. But from a Utah standpoint, does Utah want to be good? Or does Utah want to be bad? Here's what they owe OKC, a top 10 protected first. We saw this last year with Dallas, where Dallas was like, we want to be in the top 10, and they even benched Luka down the stretch, saying, no, but Derek Lively.

I'm wondering if Utah is like, yeah, we don't actually want to be in the play-in, which would be great for Golden State, if that's how they feel. They have such a weird team because they seem to play above the talent level. They seem to be in more games than you would expect. I mean, their story this year is kind of the opposite of last year. Last year, they got off to an incredible start. We thought they were going to be one of the worst teams in the league. And then they definitely level off. This year,

they start poorly. and then they played so much better for like a good stretch when i'd had hardy on at that point i was like these stories for the two seasons are almost the opposite yeah and you know sexton is he's not perfect but he's he's really good kante george has had his moments you know kessler's terrific obviously marketing is a star in this league at this point and clarkson gets it going. And Olenek can do a lot of different things. They have a lot of offense. It just felt like maybe, I think getting their lottery pick, Taylor, some minutes is probably part of this. Agbaje had been better last year.

So maybe they just looked at all of it saying, hey, let's move out the pieces that we don't have any future with here. And then figure it out. But also when I look at the jockeying for the protection on the picks, everybody hates this draft, even though I know in May people are going to start talking about how it's sneaky better than everybody thinks because it's just the way it works. I would wonder why you might not be like, hey, let's be just good enough to get rid of this pick now to get out of 24 on that specific pick that's owed, even though they probably have their own picks as well. Right now, they're the 10 seed. They're 26 and 26. The Warriors are 23 and 25 right behind them, and the Rockets are 23 and 27. So there's only three teams in the West that are 100% going to be worse than them. Then you go in the East,

and it's Brooklyn, Toronto, Charlotte, Washington, Detroit all in the lottery. Brooklyn has 20 wins. That's the highest of those. Atlanta's got 22 wins. I don't know what. Atlanta's, they benched Murray last night, so I'm guessing he's going to be in part three of this podcast. The Bulls are 24 and 27, so they're going to be right

on that fringe of top 10. For me, it's just more fun if Golden State's at least in the play-in versus Utah or Houston. So I guess we'll see. But we were talking last night, we were comparing notes on things we were hearing and we were saying how Danny's been in the spot 10 years ago with Brad Stevens when Brad was just lights out with that overachieving Celtics team. And it seemed like they wanted to tank that first mark of smart season. And Brad was just too good. And then all of a sudden they're training for Isaiah Thomas and that team was in the

Eastern Finals in 2016. So I don't know. Danny's will zag when you don't expect them to zag. I don't know what they're doing is my takeaway. We're going to take a break and we'll come back with one more quick segment. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially

developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special alright while we were on break we had another trade this is the wackiest trade of the day Dennis Schroeder

straight up for Dinwiddie Steve Cerruti reporting this one Schroeder makes 12.4 and Dinwiddie's at like 20

so Toronto had some cap space to play with and Brooklyn I guess wanted to cut some stuff who knows what they're up to. I actually kind of like Schroeder. But Dinwiddie's been expiring.

And there were rumors he was going to get bought out. We'll see if this leads to another one. Toronto's like the guy in the Fantasy League that's just like, yeah! I'm open for business! Sending the text with all caps. Trades? Question mark. And people are like, yeah, I'm going to call Gary and see if he wants to.

I can trade Jared Goff to him, try to get a receiver. I think there's way more motivation. I mean, I have to look at some of the tax stuff with this, but Schroeder's under contract for $12 million next year. I mean, Dinwiddie's been bad. I mean, just legitimately bad at this point and not even close to being as aggressive as you'd be. The one thing with Dinwiddie you thought okay best case scenario is he's not your starting point

guard but on an okay team like can he come in with the second unit and he had some stretches even where Dallas in the past where I was like you know he's kind of got it going a little bit with them so I thought he was so disappointing this season I would say it's it's kind of like his offense every single possession but the fact that he's a free say it's kind of like his offense every single possession. But the fact that he's a free agent, then I kind of wonder what, to your point, does Toronto want his bird rights? Is there another piece to this

that we don't have yet? The Nets are, I'm always confused by the Nets. They're on my confusing list. Remember last year when they were getting offered multiple first-round picks for Finney Smith when they had all those wings and they were like, nope. Can't have them.

I don't think they're getting the same offers this year. They just have a bunch of wings and a super weird team. I've not enjoyed what they've done the last couple years. Are you at the free Cam Thomas stage of the Nets yet? Just let them go? Unleash them? Well, they kind of are.

There's two things that are happening right now where it's not always the case with Quickly and Scottie Barnes, but that Oklahoma City double overtime loss was alarming. And I realized the argument against me is that Barnes was defending SGA and then he ends up on Chet at some point. He had to defend all these guys.

I thought he was just at the point where he got a little sick of watching quickly and then i watched the nets golden state game and at one point cam was 2 of 18 from the floor but he was undeterred he was an undeterred he was a confident 2 of 18 and then i'm watching i'm watching mikhail bridges stand in the corner and watch him going these two things shouldn't be happening because Bridges is the most important guy on that team. Cam can kind of get his, but I think I counted some absurd stat when we were doing the draft stuff on him where the number of games where he had one or zero assists in a game, having the ball that much. It's just as soon as... He tried to get Rudy Gobert on three isolations late in the game against Minnesota. He was getting switched into them, and he couldn't actually even shake them.

So... Oh, Thad Young's in that trade, so the salary's actually even up. Tell you what, if Thaddeus Young ever figures it out... How many teams is that for Thaddeus Young? Hold on, without looking this up, how many teams do you think he's been on? Thaddeus Young ever figures it out how many teams is that for Thaddeus Young well though without looking this up how many teams do you think he's been on Thaddeus 11 I'm gonna say nine Thaddeus Young he's gonna be like the new Jeff Green at some point Chris Gasling he's been on one two three four this will be team number eight.

Man, that's lower than I expected. I guess he was on Philly for seven seasons. Still got a way to go. I mean, Jeff has a chance to play for every team in the league if he can just stay healthy for five more years. Is Thaddeus still not 30 years old? Thaddeus is 35 years old. I know. He's always been one of those guys forever

where you're like, wait, he's still in his 20s? He was an 07 draft guy. So how many people are the 07 drafter left? Durant, Horford, Conley, Green, Thaddeus, and that's it. Five guys. Durant still

humming along man any other trades I guess that's it for things alright so there's this Dallas trade that I don't know it's Daniel Gafford

for Rashawn Holmes but Dallas still has to figure out what the pick is seems significant because you can't just swap those two guys. Gafford on Dallas would be pretty interesting though. He's another

lob around the rim guy that's kind of who you want to put next to Luka. I find it hard to believe they're just going to be able to get him for a second round pick, but this is why you trade with dumb teams because Washington would be like, yeah, all right, take him. I wouldn't put Washington down as a dumb team anymore.

Really? They're back for you? Well, you've got to give Winger in this group a little bit more than not even a full year with them. Who traded for Jordan Poole? Was that the current group? Yeah. Tough start. Stumble out of the gate.

Fair. Did you see the clips of that? I know you're in Vegas. Did you see the clips of Poole last night? It's sad now. This is the saddest story in the league. The Draymond punch changed the course of his career. He said his legacy is

cemented with the ring. So none of this matters. It's cemented in my head. He killed the Celtics. I would love to have a guy with a nine-figure deal that young and then I have him. And he'd be like, how do you feel about the future? I'd be like, who cares? I did it. I'm a champion. I already

did it, man. 22. It's all that matters. Check the Wikipedia. All right. It's 9.53 a.m it, man. 22. It's all that matters. Check the Wikipedia. All right. It's 9.53 a.m. Pacific time, so we have a couple hours left. If you had to make a prediction of anything that's going to happen today that's either major or fairly major,

what would the prediction be? Jokic will not demand for a trade. Fair. That's not major. Murray? He's one of the best players in the world. Lakers? Murray? What do your spidey senses tell us?

Unless they just decide to trade Reeves, I don't know how you get that deal done. I want to see D'Angelo Russell and Trey Young on the same team, selfishly, but I don't know why. I've been thinking about you a lot with that. Right. I don't know why Atlanta would do that. The problem is that's the main TV for you

every Hawks game the rest of the way. If it's Russell with Trey, you're locked in. I don't feel like you'll be watching the rest of the league enough after that. No, I won't. We'll be doing the Sunday pods. You'll be like, what did you think about Nugget's thunder last night?

I'd be like, I'm worried about Sadiq face Sadiq Bay's feet like I'm worried about his feet I've been watching his free throw routine like you know that Sadiq Bay takes 8.7 seconds on his free throws I've been

timing like because all I would do is watch Hawks games I actually watch a lot of Hawks games now DeAndre Hunter back in the fold I kind of like the Hawks I think the Hawks have been a stealth

league pass like all-star team this year. They're in fun games over and over again. We've watched way more Hawks than anybody realizes, but we've also been saying we kind of sneaky like their roster for like three years, and that hasn't really worked out. I genuinely like Jalen Johnson. I had him 59 on the trade value list.

I was shocked he was that high because the league's super deep. I was like, yeah, top 60, doing it. Wait, who did you have behind Jalen Johnson then? Give me a big name that I'd be like, what are you doing? Hold on. I'll call it up for you.

Jamal Murray. No. So I had Keegan 66, Jabari 65, DeRozan 64, Holiday 63, Caruso 62, Kaminga 61, Hakez 60, Jalen Johnson 59. So you wouldn't trade... Oh, wow. Okay. I see what you're saying. So if Golden State called you and said, we'll give you Kaminga, you say no. I'd say no. Wouldn't you say no for that?

You would rather have Kaminga than Jalen Johnson? The only thing that would make me say no, so I agree with your ranking, would be that, hey, I got to see the rest of the Jalen Johnson thing. It's too soon. Whereas Kaminga is a little bit more. Look, maybe Kaminga has finally turned this corner and like this is all real and it's going to happen he's been really good now so before it'd be

a much easier hang up but I still think it's the right move because I mean Jalen Johnson gets out there and does some crazy shit in games not to say Kaminga's not capable of it a real pedigree like he was really for most of his life one of the best guys in his class like he went to Duke. It's not like he's an out-of-nowhere dude. It's just, for whatever reason, he fell to 20 in the draft. They're actually a 500 team when he plays, and then they suck when he doesn't. I'm with you on Kaminga though. Big strides the last year.

I think Murray will get traded would be my big prediction. I think that happens. I think somebody's going to talk themselves into him. It doesn't make sense to have him and Trey together. It does not work. And they're not going to have the balls to trade Trey. It doesn't look like. They scratched him last night against the Celtics.

That was suspicious. Feels like he's heading somewhere. The market for him has been just not great, man. Like when you ask around about it. But fairly, right? Like I don't, like he's one of those guys that's like, okay, do I have to trade Austin Reeves and a number one pick so I can have DeJounte Murray? Where is that taking

me if I'm the Lakers yeah and that's I think because the Lakers part of it where you okay say everything is in place and then once the draft turns around you have three picks eligible for you to trade as opposed to the one and right now you're trading what a 29 so that's its own thing and then you'd be moving Reeves in this because I just don't know why. I would have moved Reeves. I definitely. Look, Murray's better than Reeves, but for the contract part of it and then all the other pieces, it's – and then you have to ask yourself, okay, all right, you got rid of Reeves

and now you moved another future pick when LeBron's not even going to be on the team anymore. What are we actually doing here other than – Well, they're not doing right by LeBron, though. They've only traded eight first-round picks for him. Plus 25 players. They need to prove that they're invested in him winning a title. We're going to wrap up part one.

We might be back for part two. That will be a little shorter if something mega happens. If not, we will be coming on some point around the trade deadline and then getting that part up as fast as possible. This was produced by Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti. You can watch it on YouTube on youtube.com slash Bill Simmons. Rossello, I will see you a little bit later today. them on the way so I never said I don't have feelings with them on the way so I never said I don't have must be 21 plus and president selectelect states. Fandle is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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