The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: Overreactions from Celts-Bucks and Grizz-GSW With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

In Part 1 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Golden State’s Game 1 win in Memphis, Draymond’s ejection, and how they think the rest of the series plays out (1:14). Then, they get to Milwaukee’s impressive Game 1 win in Boston, why this series is personal for Jrue Holiday, and what Bill’s level of concern is after some bad signs from the Celtics (43:55). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just watch the Grizzlies lose to the Warriors in the last minute. Priscilla, a super duper entertaining basketball playoff game. I really enjoyed it. This series has all these crazy matchups going on. It's got stars. It's got a great home crowd on both sides. Topsy-turvy. Gary Payton playing out of nowhere.

What was the biggest thing that jumped out to you? Probably the Jordan Poole National coming out party. We've been talking about him now for a few months. I had him as most improved player. I don't care about the awards. It's not that big of a deal. That as you watched him progress, and he had some really good things about him last year,

but as you watched him this year, you go, whatever ceiling I had for him, I have to just get rid of. We have to start remodeling because he is that special. And it's not just this Jordan Clarkson come off the bench. He made some passes in the second half and late, the decision-making, the defensive option that he gives you because it looked like they abandoned Peyton at some point. So there's a million different directions we can go here. But I thought a lot of people probably watching pool today

going, oh, all right, because of this kind of audience. 38 minutes for him today. 12 for 20. Five threes. The big thing with him is he's going to be a liability out there and especially against

his Memphis lineup. But I didn't feel like he was a liability. There were some major, major small ball stuff going on at various points. Curry was great.

I felt dumb about having Tatum above Curry when I did my top five best players alive right now list because this is the kind of game where it's just like,

you know what? It's nice. It's nice to have Steph Curry. I miss that. I think, I think I might've been in the bathtub. Just, just,

just making lists, just taking notes. But the funny thing about, just, just, just like another round of a Russian bathhouse, just make a top five list. The funniest thing about this game,

Clay, who I got to say, seemed a couple of times, like about a half a step slow for the speed of the game with the athletes that were out there, especially like that play that went to the jump on the last minute where he had the inside track at it. And it was either Brooks or Clark was just like,

I'm getting this loose ball. And Thompson six years ago, I think gets it this time around. It ended up being a jump ball, but then he ends up making the big three, but then he ends up missing the free throws rollercoaster ride for clay. I like having them out there, but you know, this is a guy that has not really been in a big game like that. What three years since the 2019 finals, a game of that intensity

on the road against a really good team, that was the first time. Yeah, you're right. It's just a little under three years. It's over a thousand days. I love the counting part of this. Thank you. The clay part of it is, I think overall it's better than it was in some of those rough shooting outings. We've seen some nice clay performance in the Utah game in the regular season, a couple moments against Denver. But it was very telling because I just always watch for it. It's almost like there's no lies the last couple minutes of a basketball game. And in those moments, it was, is there a way we can get clay on a jaw?

Which I thought was interesting that Mark Jackson was like, I think however they're going to figure this out, I'm not going to do my Mark Jackson impersonation, but he was basically saying like, they'll probably put Klay on him. And it was just silence because there's no way that's what they were doing. It was Gary Payton or it was Poole

and they were trying to keep Klay away from him. Certainly Steph wasn't going to be an option even more so. I mean, he just isn't, especially with the five fouls. But he hit a couple of huge shots. You know, it didn't, he just, it doesn't look the way we expect it to look. Who knows if it's going to look that way again. And then that first free throw, Bill, I was like, what's the hurry?

Like, there's no clock. And then I was like, oh, he'll get the second one. And then he misses both. And that's why I think he was so excited that he made any kind of impact altering that last attempt by jaw. Right. Because, you know, when you screw up like that and then you still come away with the win,

you know, that's where that emotion was coming from. How about Peyton coming in on the second missed free throw? You had another Bob Beeman moment. I think he jumped from almost behind the free throw line. That's back to back Beeman. I know I'm on a Beeman streak right now. That I think I think Memphis is OK. It's a tough one. They easily could have won, but I don't feel like that was like net Celtics game one, where you come away from that one going, Oh man, I think that's, that could be bucks. Oh no, I'm talking net Celtics. Oh,

you mean even, Oh, okay. When it was like, man, they left one on the table. Now they have to beat this team five times. I don't see it in this series.

I think the whole series is going to be like this. I'm not overrating it. I do think if the Warriors had lost this game, I think I would have felt worse about them than I do about the Grizzlies. I have no idea why, because you'd think they would have the built-in excuse because Draymond got kicked out in the first half.

Like, oh, that's fine, take it. But I just felt at some point, especially when they had the lead late and then Memphis all of a sudden, 108-104 and Memphis is coming back. And I just think that would have been a bad loss for Golden State. So they escaped, I guess is my point.

I'm going to try to say this once as we gear up for the more important games, which is hard for me to do. But it is very easy depending kind of the lens of your own expectations or what you think of certain players, right? Like when you and I are watching D'Angelo Russell fall apart in that first round, you and I are going, yeah, this is, this is exactly what I would expect. So some would be disappointed by it. And I'd be like, you know, this is kind of what I thought.

Yeah. We're not overreacting to that. We're reacting with no suppress. And when we talk Celtics Bucks later, there's little things where I go, well, if that happens, and you can do it with every one of these series. You could sit there from the Memphis side and go, well, Draymond got kicked out and Jaron Jackson's on fire.

That's one of the best games I've ever seen from that dude. And Ja kept you honest from three and Steph had foul trouble. That's a bad loss. But I know you can do that and find a way to argue's that's a bad loss but i i know you can you can do that and find a way to argue whether it was a bad loss not a big deal loss like there's always these little elements i thought the most surprising part of it was that rebounding wise what looked

like a bad strategy with the small lineups i thought pop uh auto porter fixed some of it i thought looney's minutes are really good and then when they went small again which led to the blint uh brandon clark inbound play that was brilliant by the side of it because I thought Looney's minutes are really good. And then when they went small again, which led to the Brandon Clark inbound play that was brilliant by the Memphis side of it, because you're like, all right, they're undersized. They don't have any rim protection or anything. You're like, are they going to lose this game with a small lineup? The rebounding effort from

adjustments from Golden State and from their smaller players, they ended up plus three on rebounds in this game. And I don't know if that's going to happen again, but I kind of feel that way that you do. I look at this series going, I think we're just going to have to buckle up for seven of these. Not to do the thing where the board announcer just grabs the stat sheet and looks at some stats and rattles off some numbers and calls it a sports center segment. But the stats are really similar in this game. They both had 16 offensive rebounds. Memphis made 16 threes. Golden State made 14.

Golden State had 31 assists. Memphis had 26. I just felt like there were a lot of similarities all over the place. And the big wild card was the Jackson just having a game like that, which I got to say, this series is a great matchup for him. I think I could see that thing happening again. The thing for Memphis was just Brooks and Bain both sucked. Six for 23 combined. And I thought those guys were going to be good in this series. Now, if you're looking in for the Warriors side, they survived the game without Draymond.

On the other hand, I thought their offense was pretty interesting without Draymond. Was their stuff jumping out with the movement and when they had all those shooters out there and you couldn't just lay off Draymond and pack the paint and do some of the stuff that teams do it I didn't mind it I also was surprised by the coming of minutes I didn't think he was a liability for them I thought he was okay and he was so athletic I didn't mind having him out there what'd you see

I want to make a quick coming a point that could be it should be lost because it feels insignificant but here he is he's not really part of the rotation. But you thought at some point because it's Golden State's going to have to make up some sort of front line on the fly here. You know, not adding

another veteran center because they want to develop Wiseman is a mistake. It just is. And it's a front office that doesn't make any mistakes. Yeah, go get like Robin Lopez, anybody. I don't understand it.

And we'll see. Maybe it burns them. You know, I thought it burned Phoenix a little bit last year. I thought that was one of their problems. And maybe that'll be the reason why Golden State can't pull this off. Meaning bigger picture stuff. Kaminga got a loose ball off a defensive board. And Draymond was like, you know, give me the ball.

Let me bring it up. And Kaminga immediately like points out there's a trail defender on you. I've got it. I'll bring it up. And I know it's like a simple little thing. But there'd be so many other rookie like hey just go into memphis on the road man in a huge spot and give us some quality minutes the fact that he was that aware and i know some people would listen to this and think like that's so obvious it's not the big video i actually don't think it's that obvious i think it was most guys would have been like uh here you go draymond and

he's like no no we're good i got this let me bring this thing up so he plays which is crazy when you watch before the draft he plays smart minutes maybe he doesn't hit his shots you know maybe he'll miss a rotate but for the most part i think he plays smart minutes and that's what i like about kerr and some of the other coaches obviously i think jenkins is great too is that they're not afraid to tinker where some guys in the playoffs are so afraid of doing it because then i think it welcomes in a lot of second guessing. I agree. Kaminga additive.

And I thought with the, I was wondering what Golden State's strategy would be going into this series. I actually thought we would see Bielitsa. We didn't. We didn't see Toscano-Innerson either, except for the tail-to-tail end. It seemed like they were just going for speed and athleticism.

And they must have been worried about what they saw in that Minnesota series from Memphis, just how freaking athletic they are, and especially the offensive rebounding, which is the thing. The guillotine hanging over the series for any team that plays Memphis is just, the second-chance stuff

is just so brutal with them. Clark, god damn, he's a playoff guy, isn't he? I mean, it's like, oh, I just love the stuff he does. It was a passionate noise. There's just no way you're worse off having that guy on your team in the playoff. By the way, I feel the same about Conchar. He only played nine minutes. He's minus 10.

I guess that's why we didn't see him in the second half. Both sides have all these guys who are just playoff guys, where then you go to some of these other teams and you go down the line and you go, eh, no, don't really like him. Oof. But both of these teams, I think they're loaded.

Yeah, and Melton, who was out of the rotation in the first round, hits a couple huge threes. He's really good defensively. There's just a lot of switching that I think we'll see. It looked like Golden State wanted to go zone with Gary Payton, assigned to Jha to open this thing. It looked like a couple zone possessions in there. I know they had a few later on.

And then they were just like, go ahead, Jha, take these wide open threes. How poorly he shot it. I think it's the second half of the season, the first round, and they were fine with it. Don't you think, though, Bill, that whatever the outcome was for tonight, and we get caught up and we only have one game of evidence of this stuff,

that if the Golden State Warriors go with the small stuff again, there's probably a game where they get destroyed on the boards. It's just going to happen. Yeah, especially they made enough threes today. Memphis wasn't getting some of the transition stuff they usually get. It seems, this is, Verno's always said this, like the half court teams are the ones that give Memphis the most trouble. And if you're going to try to run with them, they enjoy that. They're like, please, let's run. a good job of seeming athletic, seeming active, but kind of making sure the horse didn't get away and all of a sudden you're like, oh God!

Oh my God, we're riding around. I don't think you want to do that with Memphis. So I thought they had good control. This was a 117-116 game that I feel like these two teams could be in the 130s with one of these playoff games, right? If you really just say fuck it

and try to go back and forth with these guys. John finished 34-10-9 today. Did you feel like it was that kind of game as you were watching it? Because I did not. I thought he was good. I didn't think he was like spectacular or anything. Until the end.

I have a new thing that I'm working on, but... What's that? It may be a little outdated on the nfl side but that is you know we always talk about balance right you're gonna be able to run the football a little bit it used to be what it is now it's like if you run you're stupid but i still think most football teams would like the idea that you still have to kind of pretend you're defending two different versions of what a team could do on offense right so when i look at the stars, and some are legit stars and others are just talked about as stars,

I think that balance is them becoming playmakers at some point. And Tatum did it this year, right? Tatum kind of took that step in the middle of the season where it was like, okay, now I'm starting to figure some of this stuff out.

I think Ja is right up there. I mean, he can get a little wild every now and then, but he pretty much has it down. Like they're going to try to build this almost Giannis-type wall against you, however they're defending you. And even if they switch it, the guy, the original defender, kind of still leans towards you. And that doesn't look as exciting as prime jaw stuff, but him making the right reads and right plays and kicking it out to other guys. And he also got off to a hot scoring start, so maybe the number feels high

because he was hitting everything to start the game. But I don't know. I thought he was really good. He almost hit the game winner. I thought during the last series, he, by the end of that series, looked like full-fledged Shaw. And the reason I mentioned the 34-10-9,

I do think he has a better game than him for him in this series probably than that. It's like a pretty typical, just9, I do think he has a better game than him for him in the series probably than that. So it's like a pretty typical, just really athletic, he hits some shots kind of game. He has that thing when he goes to his left and ends up with like the super fully coordinated lefty layup where he's going at the guy and just his arm wraps around and all of a sudden he has this easy layup and you're watching it going. That didn't seem like a lefty layup was happening on that play like a half a second ago. And now he's making lefty layup. There's so few guys I can remember in the history of basketball that I've watched

that have that shot. I think weirdly Westbrook had it, but he a little closer to the rim, but he had it. I'm trying to think who else. Oh, Kyrie. Kyrie would have those where he would always end up with a perfectly formed layup and you're like, how did he get his body contorted that way? But it's my favorite Jha thing other than the dunks on people is how he is always able to get these perfectly formed layups from these contorted weird angles. And his body always ends up in the right place. Really, really unique player yeah kairi it always feels like the release point like he shows it to you takes it away and then comes around and he knows exactly what he's doing in that moment where jaw it's maybe more visually impressive because he can he's going so fast he's going so fast then he stops and then he goes up

and then he like loops it around almost like it's not a george gervin finger roll but it's these these looping releases off to the side where you think like how the hell is he getting the ball off at this angle with his arms fully extended in one direction or the other and then it looks like everything stops and he still hasn't quite decided what he wants to do to you yet yeah and that's the part where you just feel helpless because he's got this hang time and created... When he fell, were you nervous? Because he goes down all the time. I mean, he does that twice a game

where you feel like he broke something. Isaiah Thomas was the... Boston Isaiah Thomas was like that too where you just felt like he was going to get hurt all the time. I'll say this. I thought his last... As he was uncorking that last layup,

I thought he was going to make it just because I've seen him make those shots. And it was, I don't know if this helped or not, but Peyton slammed the backboard, which isn't a goaltending, but like very, there'll be occasionally they'll call it if the ball's on the rim and you hit the backboard. But when he hit it, I thought they were going to call goaltending just because it was like, I'm so used to the refs deciding these games now that I was just assuming, oh, they're going to call goaltending, and then they didn't. I was relieved.

Well, because I think it was after, right? But I thought about it. He hit it right as the ball, if you go back, because I rewound it, the ball stayed in the backboard right as he stayed in the backboard, but I think it had no chance, so they didn't, but if it's on the rim and you do that, they'll call it. Totally.

Yeah. Anyway. As it happened, I go, wait. Wait. That was loud. It was loud. And it's stupid, basically. It was stupid to do.

Well, I think he thought he could block it. I think it was like the follow-through of the block. Speaking of stupid, Draymond got kicked out. I just don't like losing players in playoff games unless it's just blatantly obvious that the person deserves to be kicked out. I don't, I just don't like losing players in playoff games unless it's just blatantly obvious that the person deserves to be kicked out. I didn't like the call. You didn't like the call. I didn't like the flagrant too.

I was surprised. I was a little surprised, but on the last time we watched it through, he hits him in the face pretty hard. It does seem like they basically gave a flagrant to each arm. That's what it felt like. Because he hit them with one arm, and then the other one, they're like, I can't do that either, and they just kind of added it up. But it

felt like a one... They should have a flagrant one and a half. You know how, like, they'll have the pass interference is either five yards, or it's just wherever the spot in the field is. The face mask? Yeah. The old face old face mask there needs to be like a tweener for flagrant fouls that was

like a one and a half to me i didn't feel like it was a flagrant too i was a little surprised because i thought when the playoff level like chris paul kicking that guy you know and then it was like oh we were calling that with flagrant one after the fact he's like all right well could something happen there and then he elbowed alvar, we were calling that one flagrant one after the fact. And he thought, all right, well, could something happen there? And then he elbowed Alvarado pretty good on that other drive. And Alvarado, I don't know if Alvarado's still walking around New Orleans showing everybody his bleeding lip, but didn't seem to be bleeding that much on TV. He's just hanging out right now.

He's outside of Arcadia. See, there's that scrape. Chris Paul gave that to me. So the guys with reps have to watch it. And if Draymond doesn't have his own reputation, he probably doesn't get to play from two there. But at the same time,

you got him in the face really good, and then you grab his jersey, and once you make it that obvious, even if I thought it was a little overzealous, especially in a playoff game, I don't want to see guys get ejected, even guys I don't like, and I like Draymond. You've got to be better than that. And now he's going to have to worry about the point total too on the flagrant stuff.

Let's take a break because I want to talk about that point total thing. Make every NBA playoff game feel like Game 7 on FanDuel Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Throughout the playoffs, all customers can place a no-sweat sweat, same game parlay each week. You'll get up to $20 in free bets if you don't win.

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Max free bet, $20 per week. Restrictions apply. See full terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? In Arizona, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP. Connecticut, 888-789-7777. In Colorado, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, 1-800-GAMBLER. In Michigan, 800-270-7117. 1-877-770-STOP. In Louisiana, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan. 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. Tennessee red line is 800-889-9789. And in West Virginia, 1800gamber.net. All right, coming back. So the Draymond flagrant point total thing harkens back to 2016, which we discussed when we talked about the what ifs. And it's funny, people think that we don't understand what happened with the flagrants and that and that they had to call that and it was cumulative and that's why he got kicked out. What happened was they didn't call flagrant during game four of the 2016 finals. They called it like a day and a half later. They decided it was a flagrant one and that gave him the points. They easily could have been like, eh, we're not going to swing game five. But they called it.

We're now going to be in that scenario again because he got two points for that. And I think, what is it, four? Yeah, if he gets two more. So he gets one more flagrant one. Now it's like you could go into that Phoenix series with the plus three. And if you get any flagrant in the Phoenix series,

you're suspended the next game. So this is a real subplot now. Yeah, and remember in 16, it's always difficult sometimes to remove And if you get any flagrant in the Phoenix series, you're suspended the next game. So this is a real subplot now. Yeah. And remember in 16, it's always difficult sometimes removed from the thing in the moment, but in the moment when it got upgraded, it felt like it just felt like there was a ton of momentum for him to get suspended just the way it was talked about.

And, you know, he kicked LeBron. He did, but LeBron definitely incited it a bit, but you know, the guy that incites it by not kicking by stepping over somebody he flung his arm up to his balls but LeBron was

standing over him and I always look I always felt like I didn't know how intentional it was when he did it I felt like he was a guy who was trying to stand up and get somebody away from standing over him and I think he just flung his hand up. But I mean, you could litigate that to death.

But I, you know, I think we're going to be in a similar situation now because it's hard for me to believe with how passionate he's been in these games that he's not going to at least get one more flagrant run over the next like six, seven games. Yeah. He's super physical.

And by the way, when you think, when you think like, oh, okay, they'll figure it out. He'll know. He'll monitor it. He can't. He just can't. I mean, that's the fire that he plays with. So it just... Well, you saw it when he left the game. He lost his body with Antonio Brown

for 15 seconds. He was running around the court. Isn't he like an eight-year veteran at this point? He's running around the court. Isn't he like an eight-year veteran at this point? He's running around really, really fired up. I don't know what his goal was with that either, but I think he's so passionate and he wants it so badly. I just feel like he gets officiated a little bit differently

with this stuff. Rodman was like this in the mid-90s. Remember, Rodman hit a point where the refs were always going to defer on the side of penalizing him I'd argue that Draymond probably doesn't get as many technicals as somebody else would if yeah you know

because it's almost like alright we're the baseline of acceptance knowing okay we've got Draymond in this game today like there's a lot of times I'm like I can't believe he doesn't get more technicals. But I almost think that they're numb to the first step, whatever that first tier of Draymond stuff is.

They go, all right, it has to be kind of a tier two in that. Do you think they keep track of the, you just called a foul on me and I ran 10 feet in complete disbelief stat? Is that anywhere? Jaron Jackson would have gotten a technical today then if they kept track of it today. he was after every foul he's out of control and again i think that's coming from jackson's own frustration with how often he fouls because jaron jackson's a very difficult well i

don't know what you say he's an interesting conversation by the way i went back and watched the dream on thing with lebron i guess it had been a while since I'd seen it. I can't believe that led to a suspension. It's really flimsy. It really is. I don't even think there's intention with it. I just think he flung his hands up. He's just flailing around.

Right. I said kick him in the nuts and it's not really. No, you're right. You're right. I mean, he's just flailing. It's a really tough one. I can tell you this. Everyone involved with the warriors franchise

is still completely pissed about it six years later it's the surest way to get a reaction to anybody who worked for that team that year to just bring that up yeah um jaron jackson who i thought give me your give me your overall your your macro jaron jackson thoughts I just can't. It all depends on if he's in foul trouble or not. It's like when you talk about these quarterbacks where you go, if he doesn't turn the ball over, the guy's a good quarterback. Then you go,

what about that game when he fumbled in the fourth quarter? What about that game when he threw three picks? At some point, you are who you are. He has so much trouble staying on the court. Some of the stuff they did today with him, where they spread the floor for him and he's like point forward, all of a sudden beating, you know,

loony off the dribble, getting like eight footers. You see stuff like that. And the three point range. Sometimes, sometimes it's like Horford where it's just like this incoming grenade straight line that, you know,

immediately it's not going. Then other times it looks beautiful. It's got great hands. I think his defense is up there with just about anybody around the rim. I'm mostly a fan. He's also really young, isn't he? I think he's still only 22. So you think he's two years younger than every Patriots draft pick this year.

So you think of him that way. That took a lot longer. A lot of people, I think the over-under on Pat's draft jokes was seven minutes in. I got it. It's a two-part pod. I got more coming.

I'm mostly in. What about you? What are you suspicious of? You have a suspicious look on your face. That he's, he looks at times to be a guy offensively that's disappearing. Yeah.

For somebody who's like the next young stud. And by the way, this game is the first time in NBA history, NBA playoff history, we had three guys, 22 or younger, score 30 points in a playoff game. So Ja, Jaron Jackson, and Poole. But the good part when it's rolling for Jackson, you go, all right, I get it. I mean, this is somebody before we wonder how healthy he was going to be.

He plays 11 games last season. I think the defensive player of the year stuff is totally legitimate for him because he's so versatile. And when he's at the rim, like it's it's on. I mean, that guy is incredible

altering shots and his effort through it all. But if you start to go, hey, Ja and and Jaron Jackson, is this the next great one to punch in in the NBA? Because that's what you hope for. I can't get there yet.

Yeah, right. That part of the conversation around those two may be irrelevant to whatever it is for the season, but that's the part where in some of the Minnesota games, I'm like, man, am I too soft on this guy? Am I not? Do I sort of put him in the background of some of the guys who are like,

well, if these are the expectations, if these are the ways you're talking about and how you're getting paid, then shouldn't it be a little bit more and then he has a game like today where those drives and part of that's also golden state sizing down and maybe looney at the time not being the most uh resistant against the rim or dream on over or whatever but some of those drives are just unstoppable and then he's also six eight from three and made his free throw so uh the fact that you have somebody in place like this, it also is so versatile defensively is,

is great. But I do think there are times where it's probably a little below what your expectations are for him based on the way he's projected out. I mean, he was six for nine from three today. That's probably not happening again in this playoff series. No. And he was,

he was letting it fly on a couple of those pills. Like there was a couple, there was a stretch during the third quarter. He was like, all right. And then you're thinking, okay, what are they doing wrong defensively? I'm like, I don't know. Are they supposed to step up to him on him walking into a 27-footer? Are they supposed to be closing out on that?

Are they supposed to be prepared off a screen or some action? Make sure you're contesting Jaron Jackson for 27 feet. If you're going to make that, go ahead. I was doing research for the pod over the weekend thinking, what a ridiculous series that Memphis-Minnesota series was. Trying to figure out if that was good or bad for Memphis. Because you figure, in a weird way, in the game today, they had so much confidence.

Even they're down four late against Golden State, but you could tell they thought they were going to come back and win the game. You build that up in the previous series. But I went through the stats from the last series. So Minnesota wins game one. They led after every quarter. Memphis won game two. They led after every quarter. But when you go from game three to game six, I do think aliens will be studying this series way down the line, the same way we study skeletons. Memphis did not lead after the first, second, or third quarter in any of the last four games. Minnesota had the lead every time.

Minnesota had an 80, a 23-point lead with 14 minutes left in game three. They led by 16 at the end of the third quarter of game three. They were up 13 in the third quarter of game three. They were up 13 in the third quarter of game four. They're up six at the end of the third quarter in game four. They were at the end of, uh, at the end of the third quarter in game five,

they're up 11. They're up 13 with nine 38 left in game five. They're up with seven minutes left up 11. And then in game six, same thing. They're up 13 middle of third quarter. They're up 13 in the middle of the third quarter. They're up 10 at the end of the third quarter. It's so hard to...

I know everybody's like, look, it's threes. Anybody can come back. This was not that. This was not just the team coming back, but coming back in a really quick time frame where they were down 13 and all of a sudden the game was tied and you could see the Minnesota team just doing the dumbest shit possible

over and over and over again, capping off with that game six where it was like, that was a winnable game. All of a sudden, Towns is shooting 30-footers. Pat Beverly's doing the step-back corner threes. They're leaving just guys wide open all over the place. So I left that series going, I don't, was that good for Memphis?

Like, was it good to play a team that that's, like, what if Memphis isn't that good? What if Minnesota was so disheveled that we're overrated Memphis? And I think Memphis settled that in game one. I thought they played the same way. I think ultimately you almost throw that round one away

because Minnesota was so weird. But I don't think there... Did you feel like there were any effects from that series? Can you have effects from playing a series

like that with such a weird outcome and such a weird opponent? So what are you saying? Are you saying that you left it going maybe they're not even tested and they're in trouble. I left it going.

I don't know if Memphis is good. Yeah. Okay. Because I almost felt like if you gave the blame chart of who lost, who lost or who won that series, even though Memphis made a ton of big shots and the offensive rebounding, I get all of it, but I just felt like Minnesota blew that series in a really,

really unique way. Like I haven't seen a team that collectively dumb over and over again in moments, like in a long time. Like you're going back to like some of those Sacramento teams in early 2000s, the Portland teams in the early 90s, like the Washington teams in the mid 2000s, like these talented teams that just can't stay out of their own way. That was definitely Minnesota. On top of Russell, I don't even know what he would do with Russell at this point. D'Angelo Russell?

Can he come back? Can you bring him back after that? Okay, before I get to the Russell thing, because I do think it's worth a couple minutes on it, I thought that actually it was just a good sign for two very young teams. Okay. Because at this point, Memphis has nothing. They have no playoff resume whatsoever. And they were a really good team this year.

We know they went 20-2 without Ja. But I think early on, we all liked watching this team. They played with a ton of energy. They weren't scared of anybody. The defensive stuff was pretty good. I know Ja can be seen as a liability a little bit, which is fine. A lot of point guards have that problem. And I think they're very connected and they're deep

and they have options. It just looked like a team that was like, you know what's fun is, hey, Memphis is on and everybody likes their coach because he's good. So then you take that and it's almost like Minnesota's Memphis light where Minnesota's a team with nothing track record wise with this group. We kind of thought, oh, Towns,

and then we didn't even realize how special Anthony Edwards was going to be as the number one pick. I know you and I both don't like Russell. You know, we kind of thought, oh, Towns, you know, and then we didn't even realize how special Anthony Edwards was going to be as the number one pick. I know you and I both don't like Russell. I think that we're very, our positions are strong with that take. So for me, I felt like it was a positive that Minnesota was in this

and was in a fight and they go, okay, we're too young and we don't know how to close. So tasted their own blood a couple of times. Yeah. So I looked at it as an overall positive with two teams that just needed to get their feet wet in this.

I don't know if that was a positive for Minnesota. I have a hard time coming out of that and thinking, other than Edwards and Vanderbilt and McLaughlin. McDaniels. McDaniels, too. And McDaniels. So there's four. Who else do I feel like I know I want around Edwards long-term? So you're not even saying Towns. I would get...

Look, to me, the number one goal... I'm not sure I'm saying Towns. I don't know if I can get there with Towns. This is year seven for him. I don't know if I can get there. I don't know if he ends up on that team. Because eventually they're going to choose Edwards, right? It might even be next year.

This will be Edwards' team at some point in the next two years. And then you got to figure out, can Towns be an awesome number two? Can he be a completely overqualified number three? But you're making all your decisions based on Edwards, I think. And with Towns, it's like, can we win a title if Towns is one of our best two?

Win a title? Shit. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking with Edwards. With Edwards, I'm making my decisions based on how do I build a championship team around this guy?

Yeah, well, I would get D'Angelo Russell as far as fucking possible away from him. So, you know... So that would be, we agree on that. That's move number one.

Right. I mean, they benched him at the end of game six. And that is the all-time sign for six minutes. Okay. Six minutes, man. As I'm going up,

he did it. He finally did it. I mean, as I've said about Russell, he does the really hard things well. And he does all the easy shit as poorly as any major minutes guy in the league. And it's maybe not as atrocious statistically as it used to be when there was an argument to be said i think last year

when he was the single worst impactful player or lack of impact or negative impact player in the entire nba of guys that were getting like regularly 30 plus minutes and then we saw it again like he just floats he doesn't box out he doesn't pay attention to assignments defensively he just is completely doing his own thing because the up fake and shot is there. And then he's got some kind of cool passing off these drives that there's these little flashes of the talent. You're like, oh, that was kind of nice. But you're basically just getting in the way of Edwards. You're getting in the way of him being like, you know, you're still trying to play this game because he's two years in and it's sort of been D'Angelo's Russell's team and when I had Jim Peterson on who does the broadcast like he was effusive in his praise about how D'Angelo's really stepped it up this year and he's been better defensively which I think the numbers bared it out but there was always this lingering thing with me with him going alright we'll

see and it was a disaster against Memphis so I look at Minnesota's history here the fact that they were competitive that they fought even if they blew the leads it's like okay now we know what it's like to not close. We got to figure some other things out. If Towns is a two, though,

then that's actually good. I don't think he could be in the top two of a team that's actually in the finals. I'm not even talking about the finals right now. I'm talking about a Minnesota franchise that hasn't had very much to root for in a really long time. But I think we crossed that hump. We got a playoff series. You're a Minnesota fan. We in a really long time. But I think we crossed that hump. We got to play

off series. You're a Minnesota fan. We got to play off series. We have a foundation guy now in Edwards, which we have not had since KG in the late 90s. A young guy that we can definitively say this guy can be the best guy in a really, really, really good team. So all my decisions are based

on that. And if I were them, like Russell's got one year left, I think you got to figure that out. And then I think next year is really the town's audition for what's this going to look like. Cause he's ostensibly should be hitting the prime of his career, right? It's been year eight for him.

Kind of are who you are after year. No, he should be, he should be. And that's where some of the all NBA stuff gets really weird. Cause you're like, I voted him third team, all NBA. I did too. You know, and there wasn't really much. Cause you're like, I voted him third team, all NBA.

I did too. You know, and there wasn't really much of an argument around it, but then I don't know. He was good. He had a good season. He was 24 and 10 and that team was successful. There's no regret against that.

Right. I mean, it's the same thing as the Trey young thing. Like the Trey young series ended up kind of going the way that, I mean, it was even worse probably than I thought it would be. But at the same time, it's like,

I wasn't, I don't regret voting him third team all NBA but there's ways you have to find a way to impact playoff games where all winning plays are not just scoring and getting a block here or there rebounding it's staying locked in

the entire time and it felt like the front two the first two guys in Russell and Towns are maybe in Edwards way a little bit but look they all collectively screwed it up. I mean, Edwards screwed up the defensive inbound against Ja on the other day, too. Yeah, he did. Which he knew.

Yeah, he's 20. He's trying to make a play, but he screwed it up. He left him off. I mean, he's on the opposite side. The difference between Towns and Giannis is Giannis had that dumb foul in the Celtic game today when he got his fourth foul. He got two fouls really quick in a row.

The fourth one was against Tatum, like 35 feet from the basket. He was trying to make a hero ball steal, bumped into him. He knew it was stupid. And he came out and Bud's like, come on, dude. And you could just see Giannis was like,

that was stupid. I'm not going to do that again. If Towns had done that, he would have bitched at the ref for three minutes about, I can't believe you called that on me, even though I bowled the guy over 35 feet from the basket. What are you, what are you, you know, And he would have been caught up in the call. I'm starting a new segment, Rusillo.

This is called Beers with Ryan where you get to go out with a beer from somebody we're talking about. Today, you're going out for a beer with Chris Finch, the Timberwolves coach. He's down in the bay. Just wanted to see if you could get together for an hour, talk about the team. What's your opener

with Chris? What do you say? After you guys order, you're drinking some suds. Well, I actually, we had him booked for the show, and then it got canceled. And I've been dying to ask him about that Denver regular season game where they were screaming, stay home, stay home, stay home. And I think it was the Torian Prince, and he got canceled. And I've been dying to ask him about that Denver regular season game where they were screaming, stay home, stay home, stay home. And I think it was the Torian Prince

and he didn't. And then Jokic kicked it out and hit a wide open three and they were exasperated. I don't think that'd be the most important question, but I just loved it so much because you could hear everything going on from the Timberwolves broadcast or excuse me, from the Timberwolves bench during the Denver broadcast, or maybe it was the other way around. I forget. And it was hilarious to me. I rewound it so many times because they said, stay home and it sounded like they said CC, but maybe they meant TP. Okay, that wouldn't be the best opener.

I think the opener would be, hey, is it kind of tough when Pat Beverly thinks he's the best player on the team? When Pat Beverly's like, guys, I've the team. When Beverly's like, guys, I've got this. We're down two, clear out. I don't know. Do you remember when Derrick Rose went out and there was that meme going around of John Lucas

and it was like, and his face was like Kobe face and he's like, I got this. Beverly had about eight of those in that series. There was a bunch of times where it's like, oh, you're going to be doing this? You're taking over? You're waving guys out?

You're very harsh on Minnesota, I feel like right now. I really am. I thought that was egregious. The blown lead things, I'm not telling you you're wrong. They made history. Yes. Yeah, look, I think Memphis is a better basketball team by all indications

and they have more options and all this stuff I don't think it's a coaching thing necessarily and I have a little bit of some of the town stuff that I've worried about over the years too I think we're on the same page with that but I look at a franchise going we can't skip through seven chapters here and go from massive disappointment

to what's your finals closing lineup. Like, I just think, you know, you tweak it a little bit more and give, give Edwards the keys, extend his curfew. Tell him he can start coming home at one.

You can say that, but all I know is I'm in a row closer to the front on the Edwards bandwagon now than you are. I'm already worried about the finals lineup up with him seven years from now. You're like three rows back trying to get some air. I'm going, who does he know? Who did he get his tickets from? I love the A-Rod piece of this.

I tweeted it. I didn't tweet a lot during that series, but I love the fact that A-Rod was involved in NBA history where the first team ever to blow three double-digit fourth-quarter leads in the same playoff series ever in the history of the first team ever to blow three double-digit fourth-quarter leads in the same playoff series ever in the history of basketball happened in that series

and A-Rod was involved like he was in 2004. Beautiful stuff. You know what it reminded me of? Because the 3-0 Yankees thing I still think isn't talked about enough. No, it's not. And that I had a manager

that was a huge Yankees fan back in Bristol. And every now and then he would fan back in Bristol. And he, every now and then he would like come into the studio. And if I'm in the studio an hour before showtime, it's usually like, all right, you know, don't go in there.

Like he's writing, he's thinking, he's got all these theories. He's going to try to, he's going to try to get the guests on question number three, he's mapping it all out, you know, real beautiful mind stuff in there,

yarn. And this Yankees fan manager comes in and comes in to make fun of the Red Sox. And it had been, I don't know, eight years, maybe since 04. And I just said, you think you can make that joke after 2004? I was like, seriously, dude? And maybe Cerruti was in there with me and the guy just put his head in his hands, just head down to silence right out of the studio door and whoever was in the room it might have been sruti was like that was really vicious what you just said to him i love it and i go well i mean come on like that's over that's

over and honestly with this new cheating scandal can we actually even call them the 27 time world champs oh well they didn't they didn't win in 2017. No, but I mean, if you're capable of that. Fair. Doesn't it make you question that? Listen, especially with the way this baseball season is going, I love all Yankees slander.

They have like a seven game lead on the Red Sox. I'm already out on Trevor Story. I didn't make it to May. I didn't make it to May. April 30th was the day I locked out. Right. Especially if Trevor Story's actually because they know they're not going to pay Bogarts.

It's just brutal, man. Watching the strikeout. I just, I don't like the high strikeout guys. Just not a huge fan. We're going to take a break and then we'll talk Celtics Bucks. I've been avoiding it for 40 minutes. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance.

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grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days and the ability to reach further with access to over 1400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, so I mentioned earlier about, I was wondering what the effects of that Memphis, Minnesota series

was on Memphis heading into Golden State, a really smart, veteran, experienced team for the most part that is just more polished than Minnesota in every respect. Then you think the Celtics who got to play this goofy Nets team that had no continuity at all and no rim protection and was throwing a bunch of guards out there. And every time the Celtics offense broke down, they could just put their head down and go by like Goran Dragic and try to get to the rim. Then you go in this Milwaukee series and it just had a bad feel to it. Really from the moment White missed a couple shots when the Celts were up like 24-17, all of a sudden it was tied and the Bucs just seemed like they were more physical, a little more athletic. The rim

protection was there. And all of a sudden, the Celtics turned into the December Celtics, which my dad did not hesitate to text me. The December Celtics made a return. They almost made NBA history. They only had 10 two-point field goals in this game, which was one off the record. They took a shitload of threes.

And it seemed like Milwaukee's game plan was, we're just not letting you get layups and shots in the paint. We don't care how many threes you shoot. Keep shooting them. Good luck. Godspeed. And if you start making a bunch, maybe we'll switch what we're doing.

But they weren't making a bunch and they could never get over the hump. And Milwaukee dominated them and bully balled them. And I'm going to be really interested to see how the Celtics respond in game two because that was the first time they got smacked around in a game like that in a while. And this is where Rob Williams is back and all that stuff. It was very, very, very surprising.

That was like a football team that got their ass kicked physically today. Yeah. Which they just kicked Brooklyn's ass in those four games where they were just more athletic, more physical, tougher, protected the rim. And Milwaukee flipped it on them. And all of a sudden, the Celtics looked like a finesse team.

And so the big thing I thought they did, I know you took a ton of notes. And you could tell from the first play. No, you like to take notes when you watch these games from the first play, they started hounding smart up the court. And it was clear. It was like,

if smart's bringing the ball up, Derek white, Jason Tatum, you're going to have 94 feet of pressure. We don't respect any of the ball handlers on this team. And I don't think, I think they have pretty good reason. The Celts are a little sloppy with the ball handling, right?

They don't have like the tiny Archibald, Mo Cheeks kind of person who just takes care of the ball. And if anything, it goes the other way. And, you know, all of a sudden passes

are hitting arms and people are dribbling balls up their foot. I think Milwaukee was just ratcheting up the pressure. That was one thing. The other thing was, Drew today,

it felt a little personal with him and Marcus Smart and the Celtics in general. Where it's like, oh, Marcus Smart is the best defensive guard in the league? Drew was dominant in this game. He was the second best player in the game other than Giannis and completely torched the Boston guards.

So that's what, those are my big takeaways. If we stay on the defensive player of the year thing for just a second, I don't feel like recalling every single vote here from the regular season because it's regular season award and it's the same as the people are obsessing over the yoko chan beat stuff the entire time where it's like you know what though i actually had janice second because today uh when you watch a game like today to me it feels absurd to think that Marcus Smart's defensive impact is even close to what Giannis is capable of. Fair.

Now, but it's a regular season award. Doesn't mean, doesn't mean he shouldn't have won it, but there's a reason why guards don't win it. Because what Giannis was doing to anybody who thought they beat the initial resistance defensively, and then it's like, oh,

cool. I broke down the perimeter and now it's Giannis. Awesome. The Celtics did not get the memo on that in the first half. There was a stretch where Grant Williams was like, I got this shit.

I'm not saying he was clearing people out, but he ended up trying to go one-on-one at the rim against Giannis. Horrifying to watch. The next play, Tatum tried to get Tice, where it's that kind of pocket thing where the two stay with you on the side, and then the big is

sort of the trail cutter, and you're hoping to get it to him. I mean, Harden loves this pass, and he'll throw it no matter what. It usually goes in somebody's feet half the time. But actually, almost all the perimeter guys in the league love this pass now. And I couldn't tell if it was a bad pass or if it was on tights, not necessarily catching it.

And then you had a Peyton Pritchard dribble into a three. Catch and shoot, one thing, one dribble, walk up, okay. He was like, dribble, dribble. Like, all right, I got this. And I'm thinking, what the hell? What is going on with you guys? As bad as the whole thing was, and as alarming as it might be,

even without Middleton, that Giannis is going to be so much better than everybody else in the world, specifically this series too, that maybe Boston can't really do anything. Boston's defense wasn't really the problem. I actually looked at the first quarter bill going, wait, Milwaukee's up?

This is a really scary sign for Boston because I didn't think Milwaukee played all that great. So as I kind of put it all together, again, one game, one game. Game one can be sometimes the most misleading of all the games in a series. I think there's a lot of alarming stuff that happened with Boston offensively here

where it's like, you guys got to figure it out because the threes are going to be there for you. I want to get to a stat a little bit later. I don't want to keep rambling on this, but I thought the offense was the thing that was like, wait, what happened to you guys? Well, the move of the playoffs, Bud did this, I think before game three of the Bulls series, when he just decided to play Giannis and Lopez and Portis all together as much as he possibly could. And it just broke the Bulls immediately.

I didn't think they'd be able to do that against the Celtics in the same way because the Celtics have bigs. I thought the Celtics could potentially go small and try to attack Portis and try to get him out. But I, that those three guys together, it was a real problem. I felt like for the Celtics,

the size and it felt like they, Giannis was in their heads. The shot chart is one of the most alarming things I've ever seen. They basically have no shots at all around the foul line or like right around top of the key, any of that stuff. It's all either them trying to get layups or dunks and just these threes all around. But if I'm not alarmed by game one in the respect of, oh my God, now I think they're going to lose the series. Because as you said, game one, there's going to be adjustments.

They're going to try to figure out, all right, they're going to pressure us 94 feet. We're going to do this. They're going to play Portis that much with the two big guys. We'll do this. Like they're going to have things. The two things that alarm me

is the health of Smart and the health of Brown, where the Celtics were the healthiest, most athletic team in the playoffs. Everybody's lost somebody, including the Bucs, to lose Middleton, which should have been the Celtics' big advantage. Brown was abominable in this game. I think that was one of the worst games I've ever seen him play on both ends. I thought he was absolutely terrible. He had seven turnovers. He was basically two for 11 until he made two shots at the tail end after the game was done. He just didn't know. It didn't seem like he knew what he wanted to do ever. He just seemed combination out of it. And then when he tried to get into it, couldn't stay out of his own way.

He was just bad. And this is a team without Middleton. He should have a huge matchup thing on. And then Smart was bad too. Smart was one for six from three. They were delighted that he was going to take those. I thought his ball, you know, I thought Drew was really, really, really, really, really, really messing with him. And almost like he couldn't keep Drew off him. And then he had two different injuries and he clearly had something going on with his leg because he just wasn't moving around the same way. And then he hurt his shoulder too. I don't know if that was a stinger, but they showed him limping off at the end. I don't know what happened. I don't know what that injury was, but if he's going to be compromised, then Derek White's going to have to step up. And Derek White looks terrified half the time. So they need,

they traded a lot for Derek White. And Smart's not going to be 100%, Derek White has to step up. That's why you made that trade. That's why you gave up your first round pick. You gave up Richardson who I think would have helped them in this series and you gave up that pick swap. It's got to be, I got to feel like your shots are going in, dude. I don't feel like

his shots are going in. No, he came right off the bench and missed two immediately again. There was a couple moments there a little bit later. He made a couple open threes later, yeah. Right. Jalen is the key to the series for the Boston side of this because as we talk about everybody keeping two with your best player, which is what we're going to see with Tatum,

and sometimes Giannis is going to start on Tatum. It was Wesley Matthews, and he's going to beat on you. He's going to get physical. They're going to send you to help. Two are going to stay there. And that's where we've seen at times where Jalen can absolutely go off because he's kind of single coverage

the rest of the way or sometimes even a four on three advantage. So he has to make you pay and he will make another unless he's totally hurt here with the hamstring thing. At some point, he's going to make you pay, but he also can get really sloppy

with the basketball. He just can't. I was texting about it with you a couple of weeks ago. I feel like Jalen doesn't get enough credit for how just incredibly bad he can really sloppy with the basketball. He just can't. I was texting about it with you a couple of weeks ago. I feel like Jalen doesn't get enough credit for how just incredibly bad he can be at passing the basketball. It's a whole net series. The first three quarters of every Nets game,

he was, the ball was all over the place, but he does so many other things. Good that you're like, all right, okay, fine. You know,

some of the high volume guys can turn it over a little bit, but I mean, if you look at the line, Jalen, 12, nine and four, four or 13 shooting and seven turnovers, that's actually, that looks way better than what it was watching it. So, if he's hurt, if smart is hurt, you're right.

Boston has, to the most part, the Williams thing. But then coming into game one here, no minutes restrictions on the pregame stuff. You know, this is really lined up for Boston. No Middleton, right? Philadelphia is dealing with their stuff. I don't know if Miami thought so little of Atlanta. They were like, hey, you want to just rest rest butler too and lowry in an elimination experiment yeah let's just do that oh and we're gonna beat you anyway uh you've got the booker issue um

you know golden state feels healthy um memphis is a bit i mean look at least on the east side of things you're going this is really lining up for Boston. And for them to get pushed around like this, and we knew there was going to be three points available from that, okay? Because Milwaukee allows opponents to shoot almost 41 threes a game. It's most of the NBA. And they actually don't...

It's kind of their game plan. But they don't really defend it all that well. No. Because they're 19th in opponents' percentage from three-point, like 36%. And if you look at, which is kind of a waste of the time, some of the advanced stuff through the first round of the playoffs, it's all so matchup dependent.

And Milwaukee has not been since the All-Star break some great defensive team. They were 20th in defense. And so even though those numbers are really good in the first round, they were playing the Bulls who may be, including the play-in teams, the worst team of the 20, not the 16. They were playing the Bulls, who may be, including the play-in teams, the worst team of the 20, not the 16.

They barely had a 5 that they could even put out the floor in a playoff game against Milwaukee. So, Milwaukee, maybe they just... Sometimes it happens with Drew Holiday, too. I'll see regular season games, I go, where's he at defensively? And then you watch a game where he's pissed or it's a perimeter guy, and the

way he just wears you out but stays upright and stays in front of you. It's, it's exhausting just to try to bring the ball up against that guy. So maybe Milwaukee, you know, cause the Chicago thing, I couldn't even tell what it meant because the bulls are so bad, but maybe this is even without Middleton, the wake up call for Boston who thought they took care of what still feels like a talented Brooklyn team. They smacked. The box scores can be so deceiving. Drew is 25-9-5, three steals.

That's a good game on a box score. I thought he was even better than that. I thought he was dominant. And I thought he was playing. I thought the whole Bucs team, you know, we just heard for the last six days, including on this podcast, the Celtics are in the driver's seat, no Middleton. Game seven at home, Milwaukee gave that away. All stuff I said.

The team today was like, the Bucks team we saw today was one of those, this is why we're the fucking champs game. There's that great story in Breaks of the Game, which I always mention, when the year after they win the title, the 77 Blazers, and they're in LA. Oh, don't spoil it.

It's a prequel to winning time. Then Lloyd Neal, they beat the shit out of somebody. I think it was the Lakers. And in the locker room after, Lloyd Neal was like, that's why we're the fucking champs. And when you win a title,

you get a lot of residue from that. And you also, you know, every once in a while you get annoyed when you get discounted. All they did was beat the Bulls in five, right? They, they lingered all year. They had basically the same record as the Celtics. And then they lost Middleton and people like me are like, yep, they're done. Celtics are going to beat them. And I think they really, I thought Giannis, especially Giannis, the scary thing to me, he was 24, 13 and 12. It felt like he has a whole other level to go that like, there's a version of today's game where he also had 42 points. You know, I thought he was missing shots that he normally makes.

They defended him well, like those Wilford replays where they were showing him. I mean, he's nine of 25. They did a really good job against him. He only took 11 free throws. He started missing those again. So that's something else to track. But it's Giannis' playmaking. And it's not just the gravity. It's not just the gravity that Giannis is. You're freaked out. As soon as he's coming over half court

and he's got any kind of momentum, you're like, alright, this is probably going to suck. And now he's whipping it out. Like, you know, I don't know if it's Doncic, Prime, Harden, Iso, Houston stuff where Harden felt like he was a wizard with it, you know. But you also, over time, like with Doncic,

when you know where guys are supposed to be positioned, I mean, hell, it happened with a play with Ja today where he was engulfed. Like, he disappeared. I couldn't see him in the bodies. And he threw a pass behind see him in the bodies and he threw a pass behind his back to the right corner and it's because these guys know hey don't move that's why when you see somebody throw it out of bounds and the guy's off they'll get pissed at the player

and the perimeter being like don't move and yannis has all that stuff down and then which i've dug into before and i should share this on the pod i looked at his shot chart stuff in the mid-range from last year to this year. It's two different players. It's fucking crazy. What was that breakthrough he had in the playoffs last year? The Celtics get slapped around and Giannis didn't even have to go nuclear on him. And I thought they held up pretty well defensively

because, I mean, the guy's going to get 30 and 15 doing nothing, but it's also the part of how he's impacting the rest of the tough without him even being a shooting threat which is kind of insane and one last thing too you mentioned Drew when he knocked Smart he knocked the shit out of him backwards and Smart didn't get the charge call and if you flop all the time like Smart does I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt there that was also I think another Drew moment where he was like, look at this. You can't even hang with me. I'm going to

knock you over. I don't know. I don't know if it means Boston's completely out of their league. I would like to think that a team that showed us they were mentally tough the last three months. I think Udoka had that time out. This wasn't even misses. Do you remember the time out after just- I was going to bring that up to you. He was so fucking pissed. Well, pissed well i'll tell you what he's because they were

just awful for like a three minute stretch and he calls a timeout after the last mistake he goes yo what the fuck man right that's his comeback this bitch and i was like now i love him i love you know because it was weird when they weren't winning really so what does this guy do just yell at everybody and say you keep doing things wrong. But it's funny because if he had been around, we go, that's it. He's coaching them up. He's coaching them hard. And then we're constantly talking about how NBA coaches don't want to give the players a hard time.

And they all have to be pushovers to make sure they don't offend anybody. And Yudoka's like immediately going. He just wants to be like, hey, can we call a timeout and talk about how stupid you've been for three minutes? I'm disgusted. Timeout. I voted Drew first team all defense. I did not vote Giannis first team all defense. I couldn't put two bucks on there because their defense as a whole just wasn't that good.

Not by the standards. I just can't put two bucks. So then I had Bridges, Jaron Jackson, and Bam, and Smart, and Drew. And I know there were some metrics that were, they talk about like, Fred VanVleet's better than you think

defensively and stuff like that. I was just like, I just, I'm riding with Drew Holiday and Marcus Smart as the backcourt of my first two-mile defense. Those are still,

to me, the standard for defensive guards. Drew was awesome. I'm with you on the Adoka thing. I wonder going forward, my big questions. Where's Tatum in this next game? I thought they did some stuff to take him out and make him give up

the ball. A lot of people missed open threes. I think they're going to look back. They'll watch the tape of this and see how many open threes they had. And the number they made was 18 for 50, 36%. At least another, what, 12 were completely wide open that they gacked. So I think they're going to look at that. And Tatum in general, you know, Scott Foster's out there.

Scott Foster was out there for game four, net Celtics. It became one of those things. They started knocking calls and the Celtics got pretty bitchy about the calls. You watch the Bucs. The Bucs were just staring straight ahead. We've won the title. We know how this goes.

We're not going to play the ref game. The Celtics got lost in the ref game. They've got to get out of that too. The reason you lost was because you weren't tough enough. Giannis psyched you out. You turned the ball over too much. You didn't make enough open threes.

And you got to be tougher in the next game. Udoka, I have confidence, will be football coaching it these next two days, right? Because this is more of a football game than a basketball game now. They have to be tougher than the Bucs. I would like to not see that group

that started the fourth quarter together again to start. I lose first three minutes. No, no, no, no, no. Tonight. Tonight. He went Pritchard, Jalen, White, Rob, and Grant. And that was up until the nine-minute mark. And they ended up, you know, I don't know

exactly where I was in my notes here, but you're just watching it offensively going, what's the plan? What are the options? To start the fourth quarter, they were 0-5 from three. I think Pritchard had taken four of those and missed all four of those as well. I know Grant Williams wanted to give him a pep talk.

We wanted to talk about big time in the huddle there. I don't know if anybody saw that shot. I didn't love that. Yeah, I don't think his teammates were super into it either. By the way, this might not be the series for him totally. He played 29 minutes today. Tice played four. I think they either have to match the size of Milwaukee

or go the other way and go smaller and play Tatum. To me, I didn't feel like they... How many times did they attack Portis in this game? Milwaukee was able to hide Portis in a way you should not be able to hide him on defense like he was hit today. No. I don't think Jalen...

If Jalen's healthy, okay. If Smart isn't, I don't know. I thought Rob Williams was like Taurus groin. Apparently, it was that... He just got kicked in the nuts hard. Yeah. I guess it was just so bad. That might have actually been a... Don't make this a ringer social, Dylan. That might have been a

kick in the dick instead of the balls. If you get kicked in the dick in the right way, it actually... That, to me, was that been a kick in the dick instead of the balls and if you get kicked in the dick in the right way it actually i that to me was that i got kicked in the dick reaction not a kick in the balls balls you feel it and you know it's going to subside that was like he had a look on his face like i think my dick's broken i think i want to die if i die right now yeah i think my dick might have been split in half anyway I've had two moments of pain where I go if I died I'm not going to complain what about

Fisk took a foul ball and ruptured his testicle and passed out on the field in 1974 1975 that to me is the standard yeah thank you when Rob was out there and then nobody would foul or call a timeout I go what's what is this, Game of Thrones?

We're like, they're making this guy go up and down. It's a rollerball. Yeah, I'm like, sorry, dude. They're stepping over his body. And I didn't know what it was. I mean, hell, I thought Smart's shoulder was dislocated at one point. And they're like, no, it'll be back in five minutes.

So I was just like, okay. So again, look, I don't think Jalen's going to play that bad again. And I'm going to say this blindly because I was trying to find it on second spectrum before he came on, but I didn't have enough time

because we just finished the Golden State Memphis game. But every team feels like now in this playoff world, you need two bigs. You need a regular season big and you need a playoff big.

Like Brandon Clark's a playoff big. Yeah. And Brooke Lopez is kind of both. He's both. season big and you need a playoff big like brandon clark's a playoff big yeah um and brooke lopez is is kind of both he's but yet i still can't get that atlanta series out of my head granted though last year atlanta like all they run is high pick and roll sort of i know they try to do other stuff but i'd like to know how many real pick and rolls they tried to get lopez in against the ball handler of a guy like tatum like pulling them all the way the ones that i can think back to were a disaster

because they were 30 something feet away from the hoop crunched into the left side four bodies all over the place it's just a it's just a mosh pit of people so it wasn't like they got a straight switch to go let's pull lopez away from the rim and then try to attack them off the dribble or something like that but again the problem is that if yannis and portis are lingering helping off our non-shooters if rob williams is out there they'll probably sneak off a tice a little bit uh i don't know what that number is and it may even be misleading because some of the ones that didn't seem like they led anything but i just wonder like a lot of teams do hey can we figure out a way to maybe attack the big and see what happens because milwaukee also late bud took brook out and i wondered if he was doing a kind of preemptive,

I'm not going to let you do this while we're up. And again, these are guesses, but it's just trying to figure out what game two would have, you know, what could possibly happen. I feel like that three big lineup is attackable by the Celtics and they have to solve this. I think there's an answer to it. I'm not smart enough at basketball to know what that answer is,

but you just shouldn't be able to do that for every game. There's some sort of anecdote of that. You got to play those guys off. Also, foul trouble is going to be a big factor of this too. They were able to keep all those guys in the floor. Before we go, we're going to leave and we'll save some meat on the bone for part two. Miami, Philly, quickly. The Embiid thing., some meat on the bone for part two,

Miami, Philly quickly. The Embiid thing. Do you want to save this for part two? Yeah. Now. All right. I don't know.

What else are we doing in part two? Yeah, we'll say, all right. So we'll save Miami, Philly and Phoenix Dallas for part two. And we got Brian Curtis coming on as well. Stay tuned for that.

Thanks to cop crate for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey as well. I thought I held myself up well today with the Celtics bucks thing. You were, you expecting like I was going to be more in a funk, like, like you'd have to carry it. I was just going to be a show on myself. I feel like I'm pretty upbeat.

Well, where are you on who's winning this series now, though? Did it totally change your mind? I try not to overreact after game one. More people have made mistakes after game one, man. And the years of doing this

and talking about stuff and you're like, oh, this is over. But that was pretty scary. The series confirmed a lot of my worst fears. I think the thing that's annoying is that to me as a Celtics fan, Bill, now not talking, not Bill podcast guy, is that I just feel like Middleton's absence should mean more. I really respect that guy. I thought he was their second best player in the finals last year. He's their

crunch time guy. They just couldn't get over the hump to make it where that was going to matter, where it's like a three-point game with five minutes left. And now the Bucs have to run a set, and it can't just be Giannis. And who else is going to come? I just like Middleton.

And they just made it seem like they didn't even miss him in the game one. So that's the part I'm having the most. That's what I'm grappling with, I think. Does that make sense? Yeah. Let me ask it a better way. From what point pre-tip when you're like, the Celtics are winning a title to this might be a problem? What minute mark of the game?

Smart getting hurt. And then smart, like clearly not a hundred percent. That was when I, cause that's the engine of this team. And that's in a game like this, he's going to be like, Oh,

you think you have, you know, you're, Oh, this is a football game. I'm going to put my pads on now. I'm I, I will make this football game with you.

And it didn't feel like physically he was in that mode today because I think he was hurt, but I don't think that should be an excuse because they didn't feel like physically he was in that mode today because I think he was hurt. But I don't think that should be an excuse because they don't have Middleton. And they got smoked. You know what I mean? Whatever the final score is. Yeah, yeah.

So I thought this would be a nice little test for our guy, Adoka. How about Stevens leaving with seven minutes left? They're like, Steven's in a luxury box. He's like, I'll see you guys later. He's out. You want to talk about the worst part?

That timing was so bad, I almost wondered, did they do it on purpose? Or they ran an old clip of him? It was from five minutes earlier or something? That was weird. It was almost like I was trying to make him look bad. It sucks now being on the sideline or being an executive. The whole

two plus hours, you have to never give up too much in your facial expression. I know. All right. Part two, we'll discuss the other two series. You have to never give up too much in your facial expression. I know. Part two, we'll discuss the other two series and we have some fun stuff ahead with Brian Curtis as well. Maybe we even talk about the 24-year-old Patriots rookies. Might sneak that

in as well. A little Cole Strange. Kyle Shanahan liked the Cole Strange pick. Feeling better. Anytime you can get a guard, number 29, you got to do it. He's the third-round pick. 29, yeah. I'll see you in a couple hours all right sounds good On the way.