The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 1: TatumPalooza in Boston, Philly’s Blow-It-Up Potential, and Celts-Heat Predictions With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Jayson Tatum’s historic Game 7 performance in the Celtics' win over the Sixers, just how embarrassing this loss is for Philly, and whether Embiid, Harden, and Doc are still in Philly next season. Then, they preview the Celtics-Heat Eastern Conference finals matchup. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Jonathan Kermah Additional Production Support: Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey. And it's on prime all season long. Watch prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays. The biggest goals can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby,

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big one. It is a big one. It's one of the biggest movies from the 80s. And we have the Prestige TV podcast as well. Succession Episode 8. By the time you finish watching it, we will have that podcast up on the Prestige TV. It is a banger. Me, Sean Fantasy, Joanna Robinson. There you go. Coming up, part one of the two-part NBA podcast. Rosilla is here. We're going to talk about Celtics,

Sixers, Game 7. First, our friends from ProJet. All right, we're taping this. It is a little past 315 Pacific time. You knew somebody's kind of era was going to be over at the end of this game. And then somebody's era was going to be elevated. And I was leaning Celtics, but I wasn't positive. And you could have told me either outcome. And I probably would have believed that the Celtics pull away second half for Sillow. Tatum puts up one of the great game sevens in Celtics history. It's in the

running for NBA history. The stakes were a little lower and then Philly looks decimated. So I'll let, I'll let you, uh, I'll let you start. You want to start with Philly or Boston? No, I want to ask how you're doing. Well, you think like third quarter game six and Tatum is one for 14 with four turnovers. And it just looks like it has gone all time dark. And there was some sort of career crossroads happening in the moment that I'm still kind of recovering from mentally. And then he rises to the occasion in game in the fourth quarter of game six, and then it carries over to game seven. He was, that was the best I've ever seen him play. I mean, the Milwaukee game, game six, the stakes were a little higher almost

because it felt like the NBA was more wide open last year and it felt like they could maybe steal a title if they got past Milwaukee. This game, the stakes were a little more intense where it's like if they can't get by Philly round two, what happens to this team? But Tatum, that was everything I ever wanted from the guy. I mean, offensively, he was just hunting for mismatches. He basically was working Embiid like a speed bag,

especially in the third quarter. Mid-range game, layups, three-pointers, it was everything. And you could see it right away, right? We sit here, we're constantly updating every week, like, where's this guy? Where's that guy? And I know the Booker Tatum thing has been kind of defined for me here, but when Tatum's a 1 of 24 combined in the first half of the game, 4, 5, and 6, 1 of 24, you're like, well, if he has that in him, like where, like, can it come, can it come back at some point? It doesn't have to be 50 points. It doesn't even have to be 46. It's just like 35 and hitting big shots and not feeling like they're going to settle, which, you know, sometimes I think we're a little harsh about, but then also times when you're seeing it enough, you're like, okay, where's, where's the attack. And from the jump, um, there was really only one moment in the game where Philly was putting together

a little stretch there up like 30, I don't know, 33-26. We were like, wait, is Boston going to have a hard time at home with this one? I didn't really know what was going to happen. I mean, I thought Boston was a better team throughout the series,

but after game five, I was like, huh, maybe this will be a turning point for a group in Philadelphia that hasn't given us a lot to bank on. Embiid still feels like though he's been in the league for a long time, he hasn't played as many years. That always kind of confuses us all. What level of expectation should we have for him? When he wins the MVP, you're expecting him to play much better than he did today.

I just... The Boston part of it, when you're watching it all the time. You can't tell if it's just you watching your team more where you don't trust them, or it's because you're so much more pissed off when they're blowing a lead and you're ignoring all the other times when teams all over the league are blowing leads. But in relation to like the Atlanta series, like two of those losses towards the end, it's like, what the fuck are you guys doing? And the game five part of it, and even for a good chunk of game six, you're like, you know, you're supposed to be better than these

guys. You have more depth. You have multiple ways to attack where Philly's default can become a little easier to defend unless Embiid's just at another level energy-wise, which he definitely wasn't with the extra day off. I was kind of factoring that one in going, all right, Harden and Embiid, they have the extra time off here. There's more of a gap between six and seven for this one. I think the right team won. I will, however, I'm not sure if I'm penciling Boston into the Miami matchup until I see a non-independent study from Philadelphia regarding the officiating of Game 7.

So I'm not sure what the missed call numbers will be and that if Boston truly won this game today. That was a shot at Daryl Morey. Listen, we're going to talk about Philly probably 20 minutes from now. Yeah. When they did that heading into Game 7, I thought that was a bad signilly probably 20 minutes from now. Yeah. When they did that heading into game seven, I thought that was a bad sign for Philly's game seven. Yeah. That's not gamesmanship.

That's whiny. And then Doc before the game, same thing. Can't believe game six, still trying to process. And I was like, you guys are still thinking about game six? Two days off. It's game seven. You've already won in Boston twice in this series. You have the MVP of the league. Like, why are you whining? I's game seven. You've already won in Boston twice in this series. You have the MVP of the league.

Why are you whining? I watched game six. I felt like that was a pretty well-officiated game, both sides. This game was not well-officiated. I thought for either side, there were some really weird calls both ways. It ended up not mattering. It ended up not mattering. I guess I'm just

left with like, all right, four teams left. What do you think of Boston? Maybe whenever we think of title contenders, because Boston's the best team remaining based on the regular season, but those last few weeks of the regular season, you're like, man, what is going on with this team? And it's one thing if you're not good enough, right? It's one thing when you're like, oh, they've got a real quick, like they have options that are all very talented. And I know you've gone over all the Missoula stuff there, but it's, it's a weird feeling of, of trying to apply like what you've watched here for six plus months and go, all right, are they the clear favorite? Do you look at this Philly wind going, all right, look what

they did to that team in game seven with everything on the line. And now it's, it's their championship. Like you felt way more confident, I think, last year about them. And I don't know if this team... Yeah, I think this team's more talented, but clearly they don't have the defensive profile that last year's team had that they could kind of always default to when they couldn't score.

I mean, they're down to seven guys for these last two games. That's never a great sign. And I think White has really taken a couple steps back and there's some white stuff I want to talk about later I think on the flip side I don't know why race is involved but Tatum getting involved with

I just caught that sneaky joke Tatum putting some chest hair on at the end of game six and game seven and what he did to the Sixers and what he did to the Sixers and what he did to Embiid, I think was really important for his career. You know, I think there's moments you have in life as an athlete, as a human being, where you kind of have to come through, you know,

you can be like, oh, it'll be next time. But every once in a while, there's a, I actually have to, if there's something in me, I got to rise to the occasion here. And I felt like that was one of those fourth quarters for Tatum, even listening to the quotes about it that night and the next day, where he really believed he was going to turn it around. You know, we've seen athletes, all sports, when they hit that point and their sphincters shrink or they go sideways or they start making excuses or they look to get bailed out or they have the look that Harden had in the second half of the game today. Tatum fought through it and he got through it and he has the talent to be the best player in the league or one of the best players in the league. As we've always said, he's been a 1B so far. Booker is somebody that I felt like was creeping toward 1A, but then now you look at the way that Phoenix series ended

and how last year ended, and they got their asses kicked at home in two game sevens. I don't know what that means for him. So he's clearly not there yet either. I think for Tatum, doing what he did in this game with how Philly was just really, really worried about him getting going, and then he finally figured out how to get going.

I got to give Missoula credit. I thought he coached a good game today. I think the adjustments they made in game six and game seven, they made Embiid. By the way, I didn't text this to you because I want to say this to you in the pod. If Boston did to Jokic in Denver, what they did to Embiid today in that game,

we would never hear the end of it about Jokic's defense, right? Because this is the whole thing. Oh, Jokic's defense is so much worse and people hunt him. And it looks bad when people hunt him. They made Embiid look as bad as you're going to look

if you're a dominant player. He got annihilated, you know? And he had like three blocks in the first half. Great. He gave up like 35 points to Tatum and they couldn't hide him. And once Boston unlocked that, they unlocked the series, I thought.

Yeah, the stuff that he did to Embiid today was, in a way, you're kind of like, what was the hesitation in trying to do this earlier? It felt like they hunted that more in game seven than at any other point. And maybe stuff happens in a game organically. Because I think it's just hard for any of these centers, any of these guys, to ask them to chase around any kind of ball handler. And then it depends on what everybody else is doing.

And especially when it's somebody like Embiid who you want to make move, who, you know, always is going to look tired at certain times. I just think bigs after a certain number of minutes, like they're just going to look tired. And why do you want to do that? Especially when he falls over and all that stuff.

Right. I mean, the Jokic part of it, you're absolutely right. But again, at the same time too, there's never a moment where I think you'd have a team just turning down layups like you saw Boston over these seven games

where they would drive, get good angles and then be like, nope, I'm not going in there because when they did challenge Embiid at the rim, I even thought there was a time where Rob Williams

was dribbling the baseline. I was like, just try to dunk it on him. Like, just see what happens. You know, you'll probably get some free throws and even he, Rob Williams,

was like, nope, I'm good. So that's what Embiid will always get some free throws. And even he, Rob Williams was like, nope, I'm good. So that's what Embiid will always have. 25 feet from the basket though, it's a little different. Totally, yeah. And Rob Williams has that problem, 20 feet from the basket too. I think all big guys do because there's two things. One, they're going to be slower than the guy who has the ball. And then two, that rule about crashing into the guy or landing in their landing space and having them land on your feet, I think that's really hard when you're like a 7'3", not quite as coordinated as Jason Tatum, right? You can't really jump out because you're either going to foul him or you might land in his space, whatever, and you got to be careful he's going to go by. It's a bummer for the Celtics that it took seven games for them to realize that that was the matchup.

But at least they realized it, you know? And, and I thought for the most part, I thought Jalen was, he didn't have that. Oh, I'm going to compete with this. Like he really backed off, especially in the second half. Like he was just in the corner and he was good with it. He just wanted to win. Same thing for smart, smart, never had any like, oh, this is my, now let me get in on this. It just wasn't like that. It was like, this is our best matchup. Let's keep riding it.

So I thought it was a good game. And then offensively, you know, they really, they did a decent job on that Harden and Bede, which the whole league struggled with for seven months. And they figured out how to kind of unlock that one too. And Horford was great. But what did you see from, what else did they do defensively that you noticed well that third quarter stretch I mean the halftime score is 55 52 Boston it's probably one of my favorite first halves I've watched a basketball all season long the intensity you know the historic rivalry part of this everybody kind of having some different

moments and getting nasty a couple different times with Harden with the flagrant which you know withdraws blood so it looks bad you know I always think Harden, with the flagrant, which, you know, it draws blood. So it looks bad. You know, I always think Harden's doing everything on purpose, but it wasn't like the most egregious thing. And on the other side, you know, Niang grabbing Jalen where, you know, I don't know. How do you not get tossed for that, by the way? I'm shocked. The Phoenix Suns in 07, when they went five feet off the bench, they got suspended the

next game. But Niang gets to grab somebody who's in the field to play and pull his knee. In 07, when they went five feet off the bench, they got suspended the next game, but Niang gets to grab somebody who's in the field to play, pull his knee. I thought that was, I've never seen that before. Yeah, Mark Jackson said it happens all the time. I don't know that I've seen it like that. Well, because probably most of the players would have gotten back,

but Jalen's like, no, goes at Niang. And you could tell Niang kind of knew he screwed up because he's the only one that doesn't stand up, and he stayed down. And I think he was hoping to not draw too much attention to him. They reviewed him, both technicals, whatever. It doesn't matter. But speaking of those calls though, the flagrant elbow was, I mean, that was

when things I thought really flipped because you mentioned it. Two free throws, they get a three, they get another one, it's 7-0, and then it was a two-point game. And from that point on, it didn't just didn't feel like Philly could score the same way. They also got lucky with the P.J. Tucker threes. I stepped on your answer though about the defense. No, I mean, at that point, Philly's up eight. And then I just remember, you know, looking at stuff and I'm writing it all down. It was this, the game entered this massive weird

phase, which I think is dangerous for anybody and that's why you enjoyed it though that you love the weird phase gibbs i love the weird phase but there was a pace to this game that was completely interrupted from all the breaks and i'm like you know boston comes out the energy's off the charts and i know we're gonna get some other stuff and they're up eight two then philly you know to their credit they answered immediately and not like i think they were gonna go down 20-0 because the crowd was so awesome. During this stretch, I was like, okay, who's

going to benefit from this game getting clogged up? Because the other part of Harden, which I've been complimentary about, is as much as I don't like how it can all be in front of you when it goes slow, it has an impact on the other team. It slows the other team down, and it slowed Boston's pace down a lot in this game.

So it actually was something that, even though I hate from an offense, and we'll get to the Philly side of this a little bit later, Boston, I felt like, was a victim of kind of getting trapped by this whole idea of slowing it all down. So I didn't have a feel for it, although Philly's up at this point, and then it kind of changed.

But really, the third quarter, Bill, is the defense by Boston. The defensive intensity to make sure that on every catch everybody knows what they're supposed to do the Embiid part of his game whereas I don't have any PVSD on the MVP vote it's just that there's a part of me and I'd always look at those fourth quarter turnover numbers where he and Harden were the highest among any players in the NBA up there with Beal in those clutch moments because I I just think unless you are, you have to match the defense's intensity, knowing like, hey, we know what you're going to do. We know where your catch is.

You're still going to get a shot off. You're still unstoppable. We have to figure out a way to disrupt it. They disrupt it. That was a clinic that they put on in that third quarter. Philadelphia has 58 points on a Harden three with 802 to go in the third quarter. Their next point... What was it, like six and a half minutes almost? Their next

point comes at 139. Oof. Yeah, and all of a sudden it was 80-58. Listen, part of the strategy was if these roll guys are going to beat us, so be it. Tucker hit a couple threes right in the first quarter, 11 points after the first quarter.

They finished eight for 37 from three, the Sixers. And that was after PJ started out three for four. So for the rest of the game, they're basically five for 31 and everyone was missing. Harris couldn't make it. Melton, who couldn't make a shot in game six either. He going down the line. And then Harden had

13 points in the or I'm sorry he had 9 points total. Embiid had 13 points in the first half. Yeah. And he finished 15 for the game.

That's not great. Harden was 3 for 11 for 9 points. And for the game. That's not great. Harden was 3-4-11 for nine points. And I think we can safely add this to the list of Harden games. But again, we'll talk about Philly next break. From a Celtics standpoint, the little things that worry me, why did I only play 12 minutes?

I didn't like the quotes heading into game seven about the Rob Williams lineup and some of the guys saying like, this is the lineup. This is the one that brought us here. And there was a lot of positivity. And then it was like, Derek's a great teammate. And White's like, I'm just here to help the team. I didn't like how celebratory it was. And I do think it, my dad texted from the game.

He was like, there's a little deer in the headlights. So I just feel like that guy's fragile. They need him these next two rounds. They got to like, they got to like rebuild him a little bit because as the playoffs, remember that first Atlanta game, he was like the best guy in the game. First two games.

And now it's now he's playing 12 minutes and he just doesn't seem like the same guy. Brogdon got to go in the second half. And, and I thought, you know, smart was three for seven i kind of rather have them in that range than the 10 for 19 you know what i mean although for all

the love that tatum deserves for the fourth quarter game six that's one of my favorite marcus smart games ever because he was filling in the toughness gaps and i'm not just talking about diving around or all that kind of stuff. Like he was making, like when they needed someone to try to carry them through the malaise that both teams were going through, Smart, his impact in game six was incredible. You're talking Milwaukee game six, right? Or the last?

No, I'm talking this. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was one of his best games he ever played. I loved it. Both ends. The White thing, by the way, like, look at anybody's rotation.

Oh, hey, what's going on with this guy? All right, this guy's falling off. I mean, same stuff with any of these teams. Like, you're going to look and be like, oh, this guy. White's too good. He's been too good this year. I think they preferred Brogdon

having a little bit more girth on some of the ball handling defense. Especially Harden. Yeah. Right. So Tatum finished his halftime with 25. He was 9 for 16. My thought at halftime was, well, he can't sustain

this. This makes me a little nervous. It's a three-point game and what is he going to score? 50 points? Well, he did. He scored 51. Best Celtic home games ever. Game sevens. I had some time during garbage time to actually make sure I had the right list here. best Celtic home games ever, game sevens.

I had some time during garbage time to actually make sure I had the right list here. This is on the list. This gets mentioned. This is a great list. This is Tommy Heinsohn, first Celtics title against the Hawks in 1957. Tommy Heinsohn, 37, fouls out, crying on the bench. Russell against the Lakers, game seven to win the title in 1962.

30 points, 40 rebounds? 30 points, 40 rebounds. You don't see a lot of 30-40s lately. Listen, this is why when Russell, when they do the GOAT conversation in Russell, the only thing they say is like, well, 11 for 13 titles, so you got a bunch of Russells. No, there was actually more. Go look at his basketball reference. Sam Jones against Cincy 1963. 47, the greatest Sam Jones game. Duel with Oscar Robertson. Then there's three Bird ones.

Bird had the Knicks 1984, the duel against Bernard. 39, 12, and 10. That was when Bird won the MVP, but people are like, well, Bernard's a real MVP. Bernard was incredible that series, and then Bird takes it up a notch. Bird against Detroit, game 7, 1987, 37-99. One of my personal favorite Bird games, two games after the steal, everyone's hurt.

Everyone. It's basically him against the Bad Boy Pistons. They win. Bird against Dominique, the duel, 1988. Only finished with 34 that game, which I forgot. In my head, it was like he had like 58 points. No, the sneaky one there is Dominique had more. Dominique had like 47. And then the last one, Pierce versus Cleveland in 2008

when he dueled LeBron, he had 41, and he wins the jump ball. When it's him and LeBron going for the jump ball with like a minute left, and he wins it over LeBron. The P.J. Brown shot. P.J. Brown. That's a pretty fascinating game. Anyway, Tatum's on that list.

He's on the list with Heinzen, Russell, Sam Jones, Bird, and Paul Pierce. Pretty good. Well, of course he is. He just set the record that we just had two weeks ago. I'm just trying to lay out the stakes for you. Russell, just a nice time to remind everybody, 10-0 all-time in Game 7s with a cool 19-29. Well, even in the 1957 when they won the first title,

he threw in a 19-32. Just 32 rebounds. First Game 7 ever. All right, we're going to take a break. We'll talk about Philly. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey.

Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. Life and death were two very realistic

coexisting possibilities in my life. I didn't even think I'd make it to like my 16th birthday, to be honest. I grew up being scared of who I was. Any one of us at any time can be affected by mental health and addictions. Just taking that first step makes a big difference. It's the hardest step. But CAMH was there from the beginning. Everyone deserves better mental health care. To hear more stories of recovery, visit CAMH.ca. All right, well, I knew the second segment of part one was going to be, okay, what does this team do now?

And we're going to do a lot of that in part two because we, since the last time we talked, the Warriors are done. The Knicks are done. the Knicks are done, the Suns are done, and now the Sixers are done. I guess Doc will be a fall guy for this, and I guess there's a door open now

for Harden to just leave. I'm not sure the Sixer fans would be that upset about that. I guess my question for you, if you're just going to take those three guys, Harden to just leave. I'm not sure the Sixer fans would be that upset about that. I guess my question for you, if you're just going to take those three guys, Harden and Bede, Doc, and I gave you the over-under of one and a half guys will be back, and you have to go over

under one and a half. Would you go over or under? Harden, Doc, and Bede? I'd go over. Over. Okay, why? Well, I know this will be my theme Probably for a lot of the offseason stuff we do Which isn't as entertaining

And probably annoys you But I don't mean to do it I'm not annoyed Okay, yeah I'm having a good time My team just won by 30 points I feel great I want to do the Chris Ryan, Wayne Jenkins

Like, God damn, Jason Tatum you had flames shooting out of your ass my God anyway I think an hour after a team's eliminated is like the worst time to start planning you know, and it's just the amount of like emotional

swing that Sixers fan base has gone through here, where you know, I thought maybe game five, like, okay, is it finally going to happen? I mean, this has only been a decade for Harden. You think he'd be fucking due for like one and you know, game, game one, he, he did everything you can imagine. He's got the two game winners, like coin toss games. You're like, all right, you got both of those. Uh, we know two and three were duds and it was the first thing I was looking for tonight. This is the first thing I was looking for.

And I'm telling you right now, he was scared to death again. Don't listen to anybody. I know you said earlier, he disappeared in the second half. He was gone from the jump, man. Like I was looking at it going,

all right. I thought he was scared in the fourth quarter of game six too. And I watched it again after we did the pot. I thought the same thing. I was like, ah, he doesn't want this. The thing is that P.J. Tucker's making all these threes.

He's got 11 points minutes into the game, and you're going, okay, well, no one's going to point out this stuff. And then Harden had a layup and kicked it out. P.J. hits a three. He had one to Maxie where he was wide open. I was like, he does not want to go to the hole. He had an alley-oop to Tobias Harris in the first quarter where it didn't even have a chance. And then when he finally decided to kind of go, he got blocked. And then he got an awful foul call

against White there later on where Mark Jackson famously went, there's contact there. And then he was like, maybe I, maybe I'm wrong about this. So, uh, you know, Sixers fans that would say, hey, Embiid really is that guy. I want you to do the Embiid part. I'm just going to do the Harden part first where, you know, look, man, this is why I feel the way I feel about him. The reason why I've talked about him and why I think when he's inducted into the Hall of Fame, an official should present him because this is what he does. Like, it doesn't mean he's going to have a bad game like this all the time, but it's so overwhelming. There's so much overwhelming evidence that something is not... Everybody's heard this rant from me before, so I don't even need to do it again. And even having saying all those things, like Daryl Morey is the guy that waited for him outside of the plane.

He's had it twice, right? He's had him twice, and I'm sure he still doesn't want to lose the asset because that's kind of the option. That's why, like, when a lot of times it's like, oh, this guy's going to go, this guy's going to go, this guy's going to go, this... You're like, okay, for what? Now, would Harden just bail altogether

so he can have his own team in Houston and there's actually, like, no pressure on him whatsoever? Look, maybe there'll be an elimination game, like, I don't know, in a big three tournament seven years from now where he closes it out, but he's just a really hard guy to bet on. He's a really hard guy to bet on. I don't think that's some ludicrous statement, yet people treat it as such when he has what he had in game one and game four. I saw a guy from the beginning of this game. I went, uh-oh, Embiid and Max, all these other guys are

going to have to pick him up because he is completely taking himself out of it immediately. Three for 11. He had five turnovers. Most of them were in the first two and a half quarters of the game. And then he got super safe after that. Right. And then he had one after the timeout, we came back from commercial. We weren't even in full screen and he lost Right. And then he had one after the timeout, we came back from commercial. We weren't even like out of foot. We weren't even in full screen and he lost it. And then he had another one. And these are the ones that make me sick is he knew he screwed it up. He just threw it out of bounds to his left and he just fell down in the paint and then put his arms up and you go like, like what, who do you want to help you right now, man? Like you got to get yourself out of this.

And somebody who was so propped up by the officials for so much of his production, which again, he's that good, but I don't know, like whatever he'll have, like, he'll have like a really good game. Like he'll put up a bunch of numbers and somebody will be on TV and everybody will come at me again. And I've been dealing with this for like, however many years I've been talking about this stuff. And I just go like, hey, he's actually due to have an awesome game seven. And I still won't feel wrong.

Right. Maybe we should have done this TV style. Right. I just could have started the second segment. James Harden was atrocious. He was atrocious. He was atrocious. Put the camera on me. Put the camera on me.

James Harden. We called out James. Yeah. We called out James Harden after game six. This is a message for you, young man. Um, like he's at a different phase of his career too.

And the reality is he had two awesome games, game one and game four. He was awesome. He was awesome. And the reality is he had two awesome games, game one and game four. He was awesome. He was awesome. And, and unfortunately, you know, whether you're an athlete or you're in other professions that rely you to be, if you're going to be great, part of that greatness is consistency. And I just don't think he can be consistently really good anymore. I think he could do it in the 2016 and 19 range where two, three times a week, he could probably get there.

Now he can't. Not to mention all the other stuff that comes with him. Right, but like of the top, top guys, which we'll have to redo the list after this run is over here, right? Yeah. Maybe it's an Anthony Davis back in it. I don't know what LeBron's going to look like.

Maybe he can figure this thing out. He was so good in game six. Oh, my God. He was so good. And LeBron was so good at the start of the third quarter where that was like a guy that knew. It was like, do not screw around with this. Let's keep our intensity maxed out here.

It's amazing. So that they don't feel good about themselves going to the next one. And I thought it was like, I don't care what the numbers were for LeBron. It was awesome. But like the Jokic numbers, he's in that group. Maybe LeBron still like, I don't care what the numbers were for LeBron. It was awesome. But like the Jokic numbers, he's in that group. Maybe LeBron still is.

I don't know. Steph is to me, like I don't care about his shooting numbers in game seven because nobody else did anything. So Steph just started bombing away. It was very clear, like he's going to have

a bad shooting night on paper, but he's still going to get his points. But like this isn't, oh, Steph couldn't make enough shots. That's not the story of what game six was. So then that next group, right? You know, I don't know what the final list of it will be, but...

Giannis should be in that first group just because... Of course, of course. And I'm doing this off the top of my head, just kind of thinking about guys. There's some other floaters who can look like they should be in that group, depending on what game you catch them. Yeah. Jamal Murray's probably one of those guys where it's like when he's right, like game one, how come this guy isn't, you know, we're all doing the same shit but i know that in my head i kind of have it all mapped out and like look i don't need harden to be game one game four harden i need game seven

harden to be somebody that seems up for the challenge just be up for the challenge and the way he took himself out of this man and i think mb sees it you know i think mb and look i want you to go on and be part of it where it's not just hey bad game let's trash this dude who shouldn't be mvp because i don't want to do any of that stuff but i i think the teammate look other teams in the past with hard and they were like oh no sucks the life out of you i went to the clipper game when they took him out when the season was over. And then they came back and the Rockets ended up beating the Clippers. And he was on the bench most of the time.

And for 20 minutes there, had a towel on his head. The Embiid part. So, and this is not an injury excuse, but it's going to sound like an injury excuse. Because I had multiple people I knew at the game. And that play went smart when he landed on smart. When they called that lane for the foul. Embiid stepped on smart and it was a foul on smart for lying prone on his back. The consensus from people at the game was that he tweaked his knee again and that he had no lift after that.

That doesn't change the fact that he got toasted by Tatum. And I think that would have happened regardless of what kind of lift he had, but he wasn't the same after that happened. And I haven't, neither of us have rewatched this game, but I do think that there's a before and after of him in this game combined with Tatum gets hot, Harden's checked out.

Nobody in the team can hit a shot. They had a lot of wide open threes in that third quarter, even though they weren't 58 points for six minutes, they had a lot of shots that were just wide open. Melton must have had three wide opens. Maxie had wide opens. They just couldn't make anything. But I do think he was a little tweaked. He was 0 for 4 from three. He was 5 for 18. It's not a great game. And I thought him not getting the ball in the last five minutes of game six was also pretty weird. In general, if you're going to say like, all right,

let's give out the rankings or let's give out the grades for each guy in this series, like for Embiid, I don't know, B minus, C plus. I certainly wouldn't be telling my grandkids about this series if I'm him. I thought he got hurt in game six. Like I thought when he was going for his leg, I'm like, oh, no. Like, is he hurt? And let's be honest, too. There's also certain players in this league

that are very theatrical about, and I don't even mean like from a flopping thing or like when LeBron gets hit in the head and it's like, all right, we're always going to chill out here for about six minutes. That happened in game six. Yeah, I don't think Embiid necessarily does that,

but there are certain players that even just they get hit in the ribs or they get hit something and it's like they're going to feel it, they're going to touch it, you know, whatever. They're just going to keep messing with it. And I couldn't tell if it was just him being nervous because of everything he's been dealing with here or if that was the total story. But look, he's got to be better against the double team that he's not anticipating.

Okay? So whatever the numbers are, he's got the MVP. And there are times where you are completely helpless. I'm sure Celtics fans, the number of times where you watch this series where you're like, dude, he's catching at to free throw line into the shot. It goes in every single time. There's nothing you can do with him. But the biggest flaw in his game, which gets you so pumped when the other side is like, oh wait,

if I like, if he's not looking and I run up from behind, like he's never, he's never accounting for these other things, this other help. And you think he'd actually get better and more used to it over the course of a series. But it was almost like the Jalen Brown stuff last year against Miami against golden States.

Like, Oh wait, when this dude tries to like kind of get into traffic, go around and just lunge at the bar. Cause he's not tight. We talked about last year with the playoffs versus regular season. When you see it for two straight weeks, it becomes easier to know what to do.

And I do feel like they really, they really made some solutions with the Embiid at the free throw line stuff. And the other thing they're doing, they're attacking them from like 35 feet too. They're trying to just make it harder for him to even get in position. Horford was amazing. As, as we're taping, I'm just going, I just went on Twitter to see if like there was any sort of crazy thing that anyone said.

And there's a tweet from Chris Mannix two minutes ago. James Harden asked about his relationship with Doc Rivers and if he wants Rivers back. Says, quote, our relationship is okay. How would you interpret that one? Hey, look. We should just do interpret the quote. You're better on this than I am. Would you ever think that Doc was Daryl's guy?

I mean, he's not the typical Daryl guy, but Daryl had like Kev McHale on the Rockets, which I guess would kind of be in that Doc. I voted Doc third for coach of the year. I thought he did a really good job during the season. I think this is a really hard team to coach, to have Harden and Embiid. And Mike Lombardi, he used to work with us.

He's talked a lot about the culture that's existed in Philly since they started the process and the excuses and all about just accumulating assets versus actually trying to build some sort of sustainable culture. And they've never been able to do it, right? They never got to round three the entire time of this whole Philly process.

And with Embiid, they were so gung-ho on pushing for him for MVP. And it just, like to me, I just care about the titles. Like that's it. How far can you go in the playoffs is all that should matter, you know? And, and it's just the cold culture of it is,

I think is really kind of askew in Philly. Would you agree with that or no? Oh, make it a face. Uh, no. Cause I'm trying to, I've had a segment in my head for a few weeks,

but I'm not going to do like a nasty, Hey, they lost game seven. But I, I would say this, like, I don't know if it's a Daryl Morey thing or what, but the whole deal in Houston was,

it was somebody else's fault. The 2018 loss to the Warriors, they send out this study of all the calls that cost them all these points because it had to be somebody else's fault, right? Couldn't be that we weren't good enough that night or we weren't good enough that week. It is somebody else's fault. Okay, whatever.

And then since he's been in Philly, Embiid, oh, he can't win the MVP. All right, well, I'm going to cry about it on Twitter all the time. All right? The same way he cried about it when Harden didn't win MVP against Westbrook that year. And he's using the same arguments that he was countering

with different guys. Like, oh, I thought this mattered. I thought this mattered. And then when it's his guy, whatever. And I get it, too. Like, the job of the GM, especially in today's NBA, ownership on down, is you get to kiss the ass of these guys. Like, oh, I thought this mattered. I thought this mattered. And then when it's his guy, whatever. And I get it too. Like the job of the GM, especially in today's NBA, ownership on down is you get to kiss the ass of these guys. I have your back at all times. Daryl is great at it. There is no dispute. I have your back. So whenever you're not feeling it and you may want to come up here and ask for a trade, it's going to be a harder ask for you because I've had your back every single time. But then, you know, obviously I was personally pissed off about Daryl going on Philadelphia

radio and saying that all of us Boston guys didn't vote Embiid a starter when all of us actually did. And he's just pandering to his guy and having fun on a local radio deal. But he was just wrong. It was a lie. And then Embiid kind of like, I feel like was impressionable with that stuff because then Embiid spent two years acting like the world was out to get him. And it's like, look, I'm sure you're right. Everyone loves Embiid kind of like, I feel like was impressionable with that stuff. Because then Embiid spent two years acting like the world was out to get him. And it's like, look, I'm sure you're right.

Everyone loves Embiid, including both of us. I love Embiid. His approval rating is so much higher than he thought it was. And then Harden, you know, doesn't make the all-star game. And you're like, well, you thought you were going to make it. It's like, oh, the disrespect continues. There seems to be some triangulation theme here where every time any one of those guys, it doesn't work out for them.

By the way, you left out Doc. I hadn't even started yet. No, but I mean, if you're talking about the triangulation theme of people just complaining about different stuff, I think Doc has kind of done that as famously as any coach. He even did it before game seven.

It's his one flaw. It's a lot of, it's a lack of accountability at times of crisis that I think has undermined him over the years to some degree. And let's be totally fair to the league and not, it's not even necessarily specific to Pete Harden yet, but, you know, these guys in this generation, they think everybody's out to get them because they can see information that says everybody hates them all the time, right? Twitter replies, Reddit threads, whatever.

And Bede is not the first, you know, I've always kind of pointed this out. I think at like 1.8 of the top 10 players all had different ad campaigns and every single campaign was based around how disrespected they were. Like this became part of the marketing of every one of these dudes.

But, you know, look, I don't... John Morant's became part of the marketing of every one of these dudes. But, you know, look, I don't... John Morant's not one of the two out of ten. He's in the two out of ten. John's in another category now. Even Game 5, they win Game 5, and how much time did they all spend on the Tatum push-off on Maxi? Where I would say, hey, you're right. They missed a call.

It was a push-off by Tatum. how can you sit there and look yourself in the mirror when Harden is on your team and you're complaining about a pushoff, which doesn't work. Nobody's going like, Hey, you know what? Let me be. So yeah, I mean, it's a thought I'm trying not to be nasty about it, but I, I, there's probably a nastier version of this, this rant that I have in me, but I'm not going to do it where you just kind of go like,. Do you guys ever go, hey, we're not good enough? We need to be better? Or is there something coming this week where we're going to find out, oh, these were all the missed calls, games one through seven, or this happened or whatever? I don't know.

Maybe it's you. Also, it's always somebody else's fault is another thing. A lot of people have now passed through this and bead vortex. And, you know, the Milwaukee series is as close as they came to get into round three and they lost, it would have gone to overtime,

but they lost on a really tough shot, but he wasn't awesome in that series. The Atlanta series to me is the unforgivable one. And this one, Boston was more talented. And I actually think them getting to seven when Embiid was playing a little bit hurt and not even in game one

was more of a reflection of just how kind of messed up Boston was and how they were still, they had a coach that was still trying to figure out how to do this on this stage and make adjustments and basic stuff we take for granted. I don't think this should have been a seven game series and Philly almost stole it, but ultimately they weren't good enough.

And if you haven't beaten Harden as your two best guys, I think this is your destiny. It's round two, right? You know, maybe, I mean, unless you get something weird that could have happened in the East this year, you know, on the other side of it. I mean, it's, I wouldn't look at those two guys and go, it's impossible because it is possible based on the fact that a game seven even happened today, you know, and it's sports, who knows, you wake up, you feel in a different way. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying this is, this felt like a round two teeth to me. Right. Here's look, the list of players that I look at saying this person is incapable of getting to like an NBA finals or Eastern

Conference finals, I might not say about like two or three guys a decade. Because I, you know what I mean? Like, even though the argument, it's an easier one to win because all you have to do is hope the guy doesn't win a title. It's a very, very short list of people that I feel like definitively are incapable of getting past that. And even with this Embiid part, where now it's going to be a real summer where, hey, guess what? When you thought everybody was against

you, welcome. Because now it's going to be rough this summer, rough going into next year, all that kind of stuff. I don't know that I would look at Embiid and say, well, he's somebody that's incapable of getting there. I don't think that's fair. I think they need to be more careful with him

in the regular season. And if anything, he's the MVP. He should probably be a 50-55. Just really try to have him peak in the last couple rounds. Let's take one more break and then I have one more thing I want to hit

about this and then I'm going to talk Miami-Boston. What does about this. And then I'm access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. So Phillies at this point that we see with NBA teams from time to time, usually with stars where they feel like they're on the clock and it becomes a question of,

are we just throwing shit against the wall now because we're afraid our guy's going to go? Or are we trying to build something? Right? And if you're Philly and Harden's going to be a free agent, I would not feel great about paying him through the extension of $180, $200 million, whatever it is. What we've seen NBA teams do to their detriment in years past would be to then, I'm panicking because I'm scared of this result potentially happening. So here's my panic move to try to stop the result, right? It's the equivalent of the unhappy couple deciding to have a kid because maybe if we

bring a kid into this, it'll make everything better. Now we'll be bonded by this kid. It'll work out great. I can't wait to do that. Usually doesn't work out great. Someday. You can only dream my my fear for philly is is the hail mary trade or move is it like a dame lillard and it's maxi and it's the harris expiring

and it's a million picks and it's whatever else assets you can throw into that and then you try to figure out can you sign and trade Harden to Houston? Is there some sort of mechanics where you end up with Dame and Embiid, either Harden stays or you turn him into whatever, and you just kind of keep your fingers crossed that this will work? Because I feel like that we could be headed down that road. The other one is the Knicks are just waiting for Embiid to say, it's time for me to go. They have their relationships. They have Leon and Wes, who were his guys. They've been waiting for this moment right now. And it's here.

And the Knicks just lost in the playoffs. And do they feel good about Brunson? And that's it. But they could just do the over package, right? They'd be like, you name the price. Okay. Basically like Ishbia with KD. Oh, you want Bridges and Cam and four firsts and a pick swap? Great. I have Kevin Durant. Awesome.

And the Knicks are kind of in that mode. So if you're the Sixers, that's door B. Door A would be the panic, try to keep Embiid happy, go in on Dame. Or door C is just re-sign Harden, let's be smart. We lost to a really good Celtics team. We'll change the coach and that's what we'll do. If you had to pick one of those three doors for what's going to happen, what would you pick? Because it's always the coach. It's the easiest one to do. And it's usually kind of unfair, but Doc has a playoff resume that it's tough to defend,

even with the title, which now, 15 years ago. Yeah. Kendrick Perkins was on that team playing minutes. That's how long

ago it was. It's the same as the quarterback thing. Do you know how many, there's a whole other set of changes before Justin Fields is,

wait, is it Justin Fields? If you're a fan of that team and you've taken a quarterback in the top 10, you're going to blame the coaches. You're going to blame the system. You're going to blame the weapons. And you're going to replace them all. And you're going to blame them again because it hurts way more the idea that maybe the guy they took isn't good enough. And I don't even mean that specifically about Fields because I still don't know how good

he's going to be. No, I thought Fields was a great example. The ballsy example would have been Herbert if you had gone there, if you just put that one out there. But I think Fields was the right pick. I think we know what Herbert's going to be at least for 10 years of the position. With Fields, I'm still, I don't know, but it's a lot easier and it's a lot more fun if you're a bears fan to be like yeah it's not the guy like it's not the guy so you do the same thing in basketball with your stars you know how many

philly fans right now i don't have to look i already know what's being said uh running the wrong stuff should have done this whatever you know could have done all these different things i'm like i don't know then bead i thought they tried a bunch of different stuff to try to help him be defensively they told him to get up on Tatum. He got burnt. He told him to lay off Tatum. He got burnt. They were trying to like-

Yeah, they tried zone in this series. They tried everything. They tried a bunch of different stuff and Tatum decided to become superhuman in game seven at the worst possible time for him. I'm, look, the same way why when you get on Mazula and I don't get on him as much because I think it's part of our basketball personalities.

I looked at Tatum's games four, five, and six. I'm like, I get it. You're right. You're right about some of the rotations that we argued about in March because I'm kind of playing devil's advocate, especially in the Marcus Smart stuff where I'm like, I just don't know that there's many coaches, especially one that's 34, bails on the starting point guard from a team

that was in the NBA finals, even though you were right about Derek White being the better player. And now that's flipped. Yeah, right. Sparks back. I mean, he must have been hurt. My thing is he must have been hurt in the February, March range because he actually looks like Marcus again now.

Well, maybe he just had a bad month. That's possible too. But whenever I look at some of these dudes, I'll be like, you guys want the coaches fired before the players that can't execute any of this stuff, but you can't fire the players. So yeah, if you gave me the over-under, I'd think that they, Darrell would want to protect the asset, even if Harden doesn't look like a long-term investment. I would, you know, I would, he's not somebody I'd want to get in business with, but at the same time, you always have to worry Bill about Harden. Like Houston did everything

for him, catered to him, did everything they wanted. I went back, I mean, because I'm an idiot, but I was looking at the quotes when Steven Stylist got the gig and they were like, yes, Ian Westbrook talking about how great it was going to be. Both of them were like, see ya. So even if you're the Sixers and you think, hey, Daryl has a connection with Harden that's beyond anybody else. I don't know. Is there a possibility they get rid of Daryl has a connection with Harden that's beyond anybody else. I don't know. Is there a possibility they get rid of Daryl and Doc?

I don't think it could be ruled out. I don't know if they would do. I don't know. I don't know. I think you would know that better than I would. I've not heard anything on the Daryl thing. The Doc stuff would just be... Honestly, with Philly, I'm prepared for anything.

And Ruben's not there anymore. He's out. He divested his stake. The guy who runs Fanatics, Honestly, with Philly, I'm prepared for anything. And Ruben's not there anymore. He's out, right? He divested his stake. The guy who runs Fanatics, who seemed like the glue guy for a lot of this stuff. There's a world where they just blow everything up. And Daryl stays. And it's like, we went as far as we could go with this group.

He trades Embiid for $0.170 in the dollar. They let Harden leave. Maybe get some sort of sign and trade thing from Houston. And just kind of reboot and tank for a couple of years and do it that way. I don't know how well that would go over at the Philly fan base. Cause they did that for four years in the 2010s. Yeah. I'm just giving you all the scenarios. My guess is that they will get a new coach and that they will make a big stink

about getting a third star. It's my guess. No inside info. And it'll be a lot of Dame lowered, you know, him and Embiid. They did dinner once four years ago. Prime 123. Prime 12. What's that place in Miami? Prime.

Been there many times. Prime 112. What's that place in Miami? Prime. Been there many times. Prime 112? Prime 112. Been at Prime 112? Love each other. They both like lobster. I always love when celebrities are in LA or Miami. It's like, man, he wants to go to the Heat, wants to go to the Lakers.

Now he wants to go to fucking Los Angeles or South Beach because he's a young, rich dude. Miami is great. Can you believe who was in the Lakers attendance? Yeah, I can. I can. It's fucking sick out here if you're 25 and loaded and famous. Kendall Jenner was courtside with bad buddy. You believe that?

Yeah, I actually do. They live here. I don't know what's going to happen with Philly, but I think it's such an interesting combo because rarely do you see these situations where every scenario is on the table, right? Embiid could be traded. Harden could be traded. Both of them could stay. I don't think Embiid being traded is such a smart... Are you serious with that? You think that's even 1% in play? Oh, I think that's 50% in play,

but it's not a Philly thing. It's an Embiid saying, I'd like to be traded. This off season? Yes. I think it% in play, but it's not a Philly thing. It's an Embiid saying, I'd like to be traded. This off season? Yes. I think it's in play. What about all the nice tweets? I'm just saying, we live in a world in the NBA

where every year one third of the superstars become unhappy and ask for a trade. Sure. You're right. He just had an unhappy playoff exit. So he's on the list.

It's like, I'm pro I'm superstar trade profiling. That would be a fun segment. Superside trade profile. Did you have an unhappy exit? Have you had a couple of happy years in a row? Are you thinking the grass might be greener? Are people in your life saying,

man, you got to get out of there. Like he checks every box for I'm you got to get out of there? Like, he checks every box for, I'm unhappy, get me out of here. On the flip side, the Philly fans love him and he seems like he genuinely loves being there. I'm just... I don't think he checks every box. He doesn't check every box. You're right

by the rule, like, you and I in the times we've talked, we're like, man, it's been four months. Four months since we've had an unhappy trade request. Well, who do you think it'll be? Like, I don't know. I mean, Kyrie's always a safe bet, but Bill and I will have these moments and be like, holy shit,

do you have your quiet ticker? What day are you on? Be like, I'm on day 153 without an incident. We can have the tweet tomorrow that Luka Dacic has decided he's unhappy and he wants to leave Dallas. I'm always on call. I'm like a doctor.

I'm on call 24-7 for the unhappy trade request. And it's hard for me to rule that out with Embiid. I'm always on call. I'm like a doctor. I'm on call 24 seven for the unhappy trade request. And it's hard for me to rule that out with Embiid. I just is. The international theory of mine of, of it's usually the international players. Yeah. It's a great thing. But eventually like there's going to be an,

an international star of, of the guys that we talk about that eventually is going to go, you know what? Maybe I'll do this and just be like, I'm out of here as well. Oh, I have a good set, good mini segment for you right now.

Go ahead. Your top three draft picks for who slid into Embiid's DMs today because they want to play with them. Yo, tough loss. Why didn't you get the ball more in game six? That wouldn't have happened if I was on your team. The rest are out to get you guys in game six.

Man, you're so talented. I can't believe you haven't gotten to the finals yet. Man, I would love to play with you. Kyrie, and then Joel says, well, where are you going? And Kyrie's like, I might retire. But if I don't... Kyrie's like... Right now, I'm on Mars.

I think Beal definitely slid in the DMs. Dame can't be ruled out. The Beal one makes a lot of sense because of the connection with the trainer. Well, I said this until I was blue in the face two years ago but those were the two guys that wanted to play each other before they made that hard trade and beal hurt his wrist and he ended up getting the surgery and it got taken off the table but

i still feel like that's a pretty good sliding door what if for this philly dynasty and then the ben simmons piece is the other crazy piece. I mean, you think about Embiid's career. It's just been a bizarre series of checkpoints, right? I think I voted for Ben Simmons, third team, all NBA twice, twice,

twice. I decided he was one of the best 15 players in the league. We should make a shirt. It's like 25. I want to make a ringer shirt that just says, I voted for Ben Simmons twice. Two-time 13 Ben Simmons voter. Yeah. The Ben Simmons stuff is...

Remember we were talking about when Philly started putting this together, they sweep Brooklyn, the whole deal. However, the rollercoaster of emotions throughout this series against Boston. And I'm looking at it going like, Daryl took a guy that was never going to play for them again. And it's been a complete, you know, it's,

you know, you want to add to the stuff that I was reading. I actually went back and read a Brooklyn Nets grade, like a full season's over. Let's give everybody on the team a grade. Ben Simmons, Ben Simmons, get a D from this writer

which I thought was amazing because he was saying he was like you know when he gets out and transition the passing and he was like that's going to bump him up he had a nice F that stretch in December another Chris Mannix but the part about Daryl that i do

admire the hell out of is that when it comes down to the trade stuff like he doesn't he doesn't lose very often he doesn't give in and when so many other gms have been like all right this guy's not playing and so as you saw harden whatever version of him you were seeing at the time based on what your muted expectations may have been later on in the calendar year you're like man he turned a like a zero and do harden who even at a diminished harden is good enough to like be in the all-star conversation because you know he's still so talented so um i do wonder if he could have gotten halberd though because i know he could have gotten some bonus and i'm sure there could have been I don't know some version of that

Simmons had a lot of trade value a couple years ago oh wait he was in that conversation he was in the Halliburton you had minimum the floor on a Simmons trade was Halliburton or Sabonis that was the floor that was the worst they were going to do in a trade

you know I just think for this hold on Sabonis. That was the floor. That was the worst they were going to do in a trade. I just think for this, hold on, hold on. I just think for the exercise that we're doing here, I think we should, like you're only presenting Embiid trade scenarios in the Embiid surprise out of nowhere, I'm good.

Oh, 100%. No ambiguity at all. This is Embiid deciding, I'm unhappy. Oh, 100%. Yeah, with no ambiguity at all. This is Embiid deciding, I'm unhappy, I'd like to go. I still don't think that's who he is. Watching that MVP ceremony, that would be really surprising. Would you be surprised by any player in the league, though?

At this point, I'm just... Peyton Pritchard. Curry and Peyton Pritchard. Curry would be... Curry and Peyton Pritchard. Mannix tweeted, Joel Embiid still in uniform now after the game, addressing reporters now, quote,

we missed a lot of shots. I thought for the most part we played hard. That's the best team in the league. I'm positive I agree with that, but... They did not play hard in that third quarter stretch where they were throwing it out of bounds. I thought they visibly quit. Yeah, I wish i'd gone to the game because i really would have been body language doctor would have been out with the fucking with the scrubs on just going nuts no

they were a mess they're a mess so i don't think they played hard past five minutes to go in the third quarter yeah uh all right let's do celtics heat really quick you started coming on the pot all the time again i think mid-February and I was whining about the zombie heat and I was like, I know we're going to play these guys. Oh my God. And then it looked like they were going to just get bounced

for the playoffs and now all of a sudden it's the zombies against the Celtics. Last time it goes seven. This time Celtics are favored. I think the Celtics have a better team. You took, you took out Tyler hero who I'm sure they're going to regenerate his, what was the shooting hand?

They'll just regenerate some finger on his hand. So he'll be out there for game three. Like I'm already penciling Tyler Harris. Like, Oh, we weren't going to see him in the finals. He's playing in this series, put him in.

But they have these lineups where they're playing Kevin Love and Duncan Robinson together as rim protectors and shit like that. And it feels gimmicky. And the same time Butler and Bam are really good. And they have the best coach in the league. They can win in Boston. They're not afraid of Boston. And this is a nightmare scenario for a matchup where Boston's favored and could just get out-thought

and out-executed unless they can come to the epiphany sooner than they did in this Philly series. That's my take. I mean, this run has to be over now, right? The Miami run? Yeah.

I could sit here and give them all sorts of compliments. They are the best coach team. To see some of the stuff that Spoh was doing in the Knicks, it's like, oh, wait, you're going to play without R.J. or excuse me, you're going to play without Randall and Brunson at the same time? Well, we're going to go to zone, and you guys are going to stare at each other. Oh, you're going to play without Randall and Brunson at the same time? Well, we're going to go to zone, and you guys are going to stare at each other.

Oh, you're going to play Brunson 48 minutes? Well, guess what we're going to do? We're going to pick him up full court almost the entire game and wear his ass out, which still almost didn't happen, which is how great Brunson was in this thing. Oh, you're going to run Brunson on one side, and you're going to do it late? Oh, you're going to send a hard double at Jimmy Butler closing time a game six? Guess what we're going to do?

We're going to throw it out to an outlet, and then we're going to give it right back to them as your defenders are scrambling off the hard. They are so smart. There is no argument about the Spoh part of it. And funny enough, this offense that was the worst of any of the playoff teams, their fifth best in offense, and they're actually five points better per 100 possessions this year on offense than they were last year where they're a bucket away from playing for an NBA title.

And they play really well together, which is just weird, but they just do. Caleb Martin deserves all sorts of love. Every time throughout this playoffs, I'm like, this guy's tough. Strews is good for a weird 11-point quarter out of nowhere. Every time, you know, throughout this playoffs, I'm like, this guy's tough. You know, Strews is good for like a weird 11-point quarter out of nowhere. Love's actually been a real dude for them at times. Bam, I know offensively isn't maybe to the level

that we want him to be for all the love that we give him, but that's kind of just who he is. But at the same time, you can run your offense through him. It's not like you're passing to some big that can't make decisions and all these things.

I still would be very surprised if Miami beat Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals. Me too. So would Vegas. Vegas has the Celtics on FanDuel right now. Celtics are minus 550. Here's the thing.

Lowry's like a net positive for them now too. Sorry to interrupt, but like, I mean, granted, I can't stand it, but like he goes out there and you're going, you know, he actually impacts the game in a positive way, despite a guy looked like he wouldn't get in the minutes. So go ahead. No, I agree with you. If you were,

if you're going to make a case against Miami, I think it's, can they, can they do enough scoring against this team? You know, they've been able to score in the playoffs for whatever reason, but if the Celtics actually play defense, they have a lot of guys to throw up other.

Right. If they can slow him down, that would be one thing. The other thing would be, you know, they're not exactly deep at wing defenders this year, which didn't hurt them in the Milwaukee series, right? Because Milwaukee, other than Middleton, they really had no wings who could create a shot. And then the Knicks, RJ just kind

of fell apart as that series went along. Randall, I think for a team like Miami is a pretty easy guy to defend. I'm just talking about really good athletic scoring wings. Seems like an advantage for the Celtics, not to mention the guards and the fact that they can play three guard lineups against them. They can quicken up the pace. They can do all these different kind of lineups depending on what the series needs. Whereas Miami kind of like, this is our team. Miami doesn't have a lot of flexibility. Like they're going to have to play Bam and Butler a lot of minutes.

They're going to need to get a huge Lowry series. Other than that, like it's not like they have moves. Their moves are that their coach is fucking smart and every series these players leave the series broken. Right? By the end of game six

Randall and Barrett are like just fucking shells of themselves. You know? Brunson's like the only guy standing. To me that's like coaching execution strategy. That's what they do.

They just seize whatever you're bad at whatever your weakness is and they hone in on it and if it's like this little cut by the end And if it's like this little cut by the end of it, it's like this ax wound. The problem for them is that the Celtics just on paper, just have so much more talent. So this would have to be a Spoh, Butler, Bam,

Lowry doing all his stuff. And then they're really going to need Caleb Barton and they're going to need Struess who has killed the Celtics in the past, right? They're going to need those five guys, whatever they can get out of Duncan Robinson, whatever they can get out of Love, who I still don't think is shooting the ball that well. And you know, Tyler Hero's coming back. I'm just telling you now, he's coming back. I don't know about the Tyler Hero thing because it seems like he still has more hats. And so he might not be in a rush. He just went to Chrome, bought a couple more outfits. He's bought a $2,500 sweatshirt.

So it feels a lot like, you know, last year's Miami Easter Conference Finals reminds me of the Sixers series the Celtics just got through. Like every game would start, you know, my dad called me like,

who do you think is going to win? Like, I think Bosa is going to win. Like, I think Bosa is going to win because I think they're better than them. And I know it still almost didn't happen. And yet, I think the gap this year is bigger than the gap last year.

Just from last year, you're moving Hero and you're moving Tucker from last year's team. Kevin Love and a better Caleb Barton. You said something though, like that's, that sound really simple,

but it's really smart. Thank you. You know, you only got to win four of these games. And if you look at the Philly series, like they got the two coin toss games on the hardened shots. Yeah. And you could argue game six though.

Like at one point you're like, Boston's just going to lose, I guess. I guess they're going to lose. And we'd be doing a 25-minute podcast on who the Celtics are, which we might be doing in two weeks if they were to lose to Miami the same way we're doing it about Philadelphia right now, right? That's just the game. But if Miami, you figure, is going to get smashed

into where the talent gap will be. You figure, two blowouts and two Butler games, so the series is already tied 2-2. That's the best of three. There you go, it's best of three. Can the Celtics win a Butler game? It's like, what would be my scouting report? Can you win the game where Butler has 41?

Right, or is Butler, was he able to pace himself against the Knicks? Or was he not the same guy against the Knicks that he was against Milwaukee because he was the guy that he was against Milwaukee, which is daunting. We just saw it with Booker and Durant. Like, it's impossible to be that guy, you know, four or five games into a playoff series. Like, I know we're going to spend some time with Phoenix and all the Durant stuff,

but when I look at Durant's shooting numbers, it's going to sound like I'm protecting him, but I saw a guy catching it and being like, dribble into three people and shoot these brutal shots. And he missed open ones too, so the shooting numbers aren't great, but what Butler was doing, I don't know if any human athlete could sustain that amount of exertion all the time.

And luckily for him against the Knicks, they didn't need him to be that like he was against Milwaukee. And his ankle, I don't think it's 100% either. Yeah, you think like Durant and Booker, they had 86 and like 76 in those two games that they won, which was a lot. We all talked about how a lot it was, but Tatum and Brown today had 76 combined. When you're over 70 as a duo, it's so many points. It's a ridiculous amount. The Celtics,

those two best guys today didn't get to 80, and Tatum had the best game of his entire life. This will be a long series. There will be the game when Lowry does a whole bunch of shit that I'm just

out of my mind that I can't believe we just lost that game and Lowry took five charges and they're just reviewing block charges for an hour. Butler will have two awesome games and it's going to come down to they're just going to push everything towards smart and the guards and try to not let Tatum beat them would be my guesses.

And then bam, you know, there'll be the game where bam has like six points and then he'll have a couple of quotes. And then the next game they'll establish bam at the foul line. He'll be fucking awesome. And they'll be like, why didn't they do that at the last game?

Like I know all the beats of the series and it's going to go six or seven. It just is. Yeah, I think at the very beginning, you're going to have Boston going, oh my God, look at all this room. Look at all these drives of the hoop. Because Embiid, that's the worst I think I've seen the Celtics on drives all season long. And granted, it felt sustained

because it's the same team that you're going up against for seven games. But he was like a do not enter sign, man. He was great. Well, and then they pulled him away and he wasn't. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, look at this. This is who played for them in game seven. Butler played 41. I'm sorry. Game six, heat next game six,

Butler played 41, bam, 39, Gabe, Vincent, 31, Struess, 39. Gabe Vincent, 31. Struce, 34. Lowry, 31.

Caleb Barton, 24. And then Love and Robinson. And Cody Zeller played nine minutes. He's our eighth man. Cody Zeller's playing real minutes now. Yeah. He's been pretty good. Hey, let's take this to a part two because we got more stuff to do.

We want to put up part one as fast as possible. Part two will go up tonight at the normal time at 12, at midnight, basically. This one is going up as fast as possible, obviously. It was produced by Jonathan Kerma, our guy stepping in for Kyle, who nobody's heard from Kyle in a couple of days. He might not ever be back.

We'll see. We'll find out. Thanks to Steve Cerutti as well. Russillo, I will see you for part two. Feel it's working On the wayside I'm a person never I don't have