The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 2: L.A. Panic Button Reversal, Ayton’s Emergence + CP3 Predictions With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

In Part two of the two-part Sunday podcast, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Round 1 of the NBA Western Conference playoffs. They talk about the Clippers' Game 4 blowout win vs. the Mavericks, Luka Doncic's injury, and Kawhi Leonard’s impressive series stats (2:00). Then they discuss the Suns’ Game 4 win vs. the Lakers, Anthony Davis’ groin injury, Chris Paul rallying back from his shoulder injury, DeAndre Ayton’s real-time development, looking ahead to Game 5 in Phoenix and more (22:00). Next they hit on Jazz-Grizzlies, Donovan Mitchell’s return, a confusing Nuggets-Trail Blazers series, and more (48:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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as well as The Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one of this Sunday Night Extravaganza with me and Rossella, we broke down the East, the Knicks, the Celtics Net Series, all that stuff. You can check it out wherever you get your podcasts. Obviously you're listening to them because you got this one. Part two is going to cover the West. We just watched Mavs clips.

Let's bring in Pearl Jam again, just for the hell of it. All right, part two of the Sunday extravaganza. Not as fun as last weekend's. The games kind of, for the most part, sucked this weekend. And Priscilla, if you spoil Mayor of Easttown for me, I'm walking off my own podcast. So if you know the murderers, don't tell me. You know what?

I didn't know anything about it until I caught it, an episode, and it's like I caught randomly an episode in the middle of the season, and then everybody's freaking out about it. So the guy behind it is amazing. You should watch it. It's really good. Plus, Kate Winslet plays a former high school basketball star, so that alone should suck you in. Uh, speaking of sucking us in. So we were doing

LA panic button stuff a week ago. And even as recently as like Thursday night, you would have said LA panic button Clippers 15 out of 10 Lakers two out of 10. It is now flipped and we can start with clips. Mavs. We just watched it. It's almost nine o'clock here, Pacific time. Luka's at 50%. He got hurt in the first quarter of game three. I think I know when it happened. It was like he kind of collided with Rondo on a drive.

And from that point on, just seemed like not a shell of himself, but not quite as good. He was in such a good groove those first two games. And even the first couple minutes of game three, the series flips, and now it seems hopeless. Do you think they should have just not played him tonight? Would you have rested him and just said, let's throw away game four. We got to

get him in shape for these last three games, because he didn't look right. No, I wouldn't, because I don't know the magnitude of it. You know, if they said he's good to go and he's ready to go out there, then fine but i mean he's missing all of his free throws now too he's all five for the free throw line tonight he's going to be i think in the 30s 30 something percent for the series but it was weird because they were up what 14 to 2 in game three and and you're sitting there going all right what's going to happen to this team? Because I was open to any possible storyline that you want to talk about.

And a team that, let's face it, I think the criticism of the Clippers is that they don't have a ton of foxhole guys, right? They have guys that you go, this team, once it starts going south, there's some guys that just aren't mentally tough enough. And they've shown everybody, at least in these two games, the way they responded. So, look, I personally would not be sitting Luka unless somebody told me, like, emphatically that, yes, this guy shouldn't have played game four.

So I thought he had moments. He played well in the second quarter, so. Doesn't look like himself. Back to the Foxhole thing, the Clippers, basically, they played seven guys tonight. They played Mann a little more in the second half, but they went down swinging with the Batum, Leonard Morris, Jackson, George, and then a little Zubach and some important Rondo.

I think Rondo, uh, the last two games really helped them. And I thought he was the key to game three when, uh, when it looked like it was slipping away, then obviously Luca wasn't a hundred percent, but they just kind of, they were, they hit this point where it was like, was slipping away, then obviously Luka wasn't 100%. But they just kind of, they hit this point where it was like, who are our five guys? And I thought Rondo did some good stuff in that one. But really the story is Kawhi.

Kawhi's stats in the series now, he's scored 132 points in four games, which goes to, that's about 34 a game. He's made 47 of 75 field goals. So he is on pace for 60% for the series. He was awesome in the first two games that they lost. I think he could have guarded Luka more, but we were talking in part one about is Durant, who is the best player in the league, who's the most talented player in the league. And then Kawhi is just kind of under the radar, doesn't say anything. But meanwhile, has looked as good as I think he's ever looked I don't know if I'm ready to

go there because I think the Toronto the two-way player that you got out of him then um where good good point the two-way you're right two-way Kawhi probably better two years ago offensively this is the best he's looked yeah but I remember last year too kind of going like hey look Giannis is probably the best player in the world and then the series against miami happens and then i remember having a moment where i'm like you know look at kawai when he wants to dribble india with his shoulders and get up from the elbow there's nothing you can do with it it's ridiculous and how efficient he is on that move and so then i'm like leaning towards kawai i think i did three different guys through the whole deal and then lebron at the end of it reminds us like

why are we picking any of these people over LeBron? So this has been incredible from Kawhi. And tonight was easy. Tonight was really weird. I mean, guys were touching the ball, but it felt like Kawhi and Paul George could do whatever they wanted to. And then at one point, I was looking at it.

I mean, it really comes down to shooting in this one. At one point in the third quarter and these are rough numbers but i had it like the clippers were 50 from three and dallas was three for 20 from three and donchage is a big part of that because i mean the game plan is you're going to try to let somebody do something so you say hey let's let donchage shoot and if you look at him as a shooter first three years of his career 33 32 35 last year against the Clippers in that series, 36%. He was 46% in the first three games of this series. So to see him cool off had to happen, and then you factor in the injury part of it as well. So the Clippers are doing something that I

don't think many people felt great about, especially when they lose the first two at home. So I guess we have to retire how stupid the Clippers were for wanting to play Dallas, or we could say they're super lucky that Luka got hurt. Because if you had freeze-framed that game when it was 14-2, it seemed like they were going to get swept and Kawhi was going to be

on a different team a year later and he got hurt. Maybe. It's almost like to me, you almost have to think about the Mavs like a different team a year later and he got hurt. Maybe. It's almost like to me, you almost have to think about the Mavs like a football team where it's like one of those Brady years where he's doing it with a whole

bunch of non-all pros, but he's the key to the engine. And then he gets hurt and you just kind of know they don't have a chance if he's not 100%. I feel like that way with Luka. I don't think the Mavs are capable of beating any team in the top seven in the West unless he's 100%. They're just not good enough.

They don't have enough talent. They were doing a Beaubon-KP-Twin Towers thing in the fourth quarter, which I was kind of digging, by the way. But it was like, that's how desperate they were. It's not like they had some heat check to come. It's little similar to the celtics where it's like all right you look down the bench it's like there's grant williams there's semi ojale there's trey burke you know at some point you're built around one guy and if anything happens you're screwed yeah i also think the funny thing about the clippers like let's face it people don't like

the clippers in a way that's more unique than any other franchise that's in it. Would you agree with that? People hate Boston because of Boston. There's always going to be the anti-Lakers thing of non-Lakers fans, but there's people that don't even care emotionally that just love hating on the Clippers. I would say if you're talking about

the hater rankings, Brooklyn's got to be number one. I think most people have some sort of bone to pick with Brooklyn how that team was put together the Katie Kyrie thing just that whole

partnership and then how Harden kind of tanked his way and he really get there I yeah I think a lot of people are against them I think there's a younger generation of

media people just don't care how any of the teams are put together and maybe they're talking about media people are fans though because I feel like the fans are put together. We're talking about media people or fans, though? Because I feel like the fans are like, fuck those guys. I hope they lose. Plus, Brooklyn doesn't really have any fans.

So it's not like they did this with the Bulls, and it's like now the whole Chicago fan base is behind them. Michael Strahan was at a game. Fair. Fair. A couple key bloggers. I think there's a weird anti-Clippers thing, though, that seems

excessive for a team that's like, what have the Clippers ever done to you? And it's coming off the 3-1 loss to Denver, and then it carries in, and I thought it was kind of weird that the only way you could ever talk about the storyline was like, oh, Clippers, they deserve what they get.

They're tanking those last two games. They want to avoid the Lakers, and I get people not liking it because it makes them look soft as an organization and hey you're ducking this other team when you're going to have to play them at some point anyway Dallas was trying to lose to to avoid what was so that was like a double tank off yeah but nobody's bringing that up um because again the Clippers are it's not being held to a standard I just feel like there's and I'm not telling you

hey everybody love the Clippers give the Clippers a hug I just find them suffering there seems to be more enjoyment with their suffering

than other fan bases or excuse me of other franchises it's not even the fans but you know why that's happening because they orchestrated

the whole Kawhi George thing and they talked a lot of shit they talked about how they're going to take the Lakers from the LA from the Lakers. And then in the playoffs last year, they were puffing their chests out. They're talking shit to everybody and acting like they'd won the title and they hadn't won anything.

And basically Kawhi had won the title, but none of the other guys had done anything. And I think people don't like that. They don't like front runner stuff. And especially if the front runners can't back it up and completely unravel and then start making excuses, which they did last year. Yeah, they did. People don't like that. Yeah. Look again, I'm not sitting here telling you be nicer to the Clippers. I just... That'd be a good segment. Coming up next on the jump, be nicer to the Clippers.

As far as the LA stuff though, I think a lot of that's marketing. You know, a lot of that is... Marketing what? Marketing that you're trying to make any kind of dent in this city for that fan base. Nobody cares. If we have a Brooklyn Clippers fan base, it'll be a race to see what's the more depressing parade for who wins. I can't even imagine who's going to have less people. You'll go. You'll go to the Clippers parade.

I really won't. What if you're invited? I definitely will not go. What's the equivalent of a duck boat out here? Not going. You won't be in the Coliseum sitting next to Balmer, high-fiving him? Maybe a third row. I do like Balmer. I really do appreciate the energy

and you know the checkbook that he brought to the Clippers to try to make them relevant again I can see kudos to that dude I can see like

Steely Dan coming out to play and you and Balmer in front with David Cho the artist yeah Balmer's buddy you and Goldstein just hugging it out

you're wearing a vest well the irony of this Clippers thing would be if they get crowds back, right? Like there was a huge crowd at the Celtics game today. The crowds are coming back. I think, I don't know what the rule is with LA with how many people can go to Staples, but the Clippers are probably one of the few teams

that are like, we've got our crowd back. And it's like, eh, not that great of a crowd. There's good sections in the crowd, but there's also a lot of fans in every series rooting for the other team, which is a problem. I remember when I was doing the playoff stuff and I was looking ahead, I started digging

into who was going to have how many, what capacity. Like, oh, well, this team's going to have 10%, but this team's going to have 75%. And then i was like i don't care i'm like just just when the game's on i'll turn it on i'm not gonna start picking teams that i wouldn't normally pick because of the crowd disparity you know what i've enjoyed i've enjoyed two crowd moments since they came back the uh the the first and second nicks games were awesome i just really enjoyed enjoyed it. It really felt like basketball. That was awesome. Life was normal.

And then the, the guy that threw the water bottle at Kyrie? No, we'll get to him later, that fucking dick. I hate that guy. God, I hate that guy.

The Bruins crowd last night was awesome. And you don't realize, I was watching with my cousin, Brian, you don't realize how weird hockey was with the empty seats around the rink,

you know? And then all of a sudden there are people there and everyone's alive and pasta had a hat trick. Everyone's throwing their hats on the ice. I'm like, we're back. Society is back. There's a hat trick with fans throwing hats on the ice. We're back, baby.

I love it. I would give Memphis their home basketball games maybe the best in arena sound they did a great job the music great job

Memphis has been doing this for years so this isn't new but every time I'm watching Memphis on League Pass and I listen to what the DJ's doing

I was like this is incredible this would be like me 10 Coors Lights in in college like annoying everybody at a house party, just going, I got this.

Don't worry about it. And that's what they do. But the Bruins are right up there for obviously the hockey games. So the Bruins are going to win the Stanley Cup. They're really good. They're actually favored. I went to go bet them today.

I'm like, oh shit, they're actually favored. Other people agree with this. This Taylor Hall trade is probably the greatest mid-season trade they've made since the 80s. They basically imported this dude who was this struggling superstar who now looks like a superstar again.

I've watched all the games. I don't know enough about it to add to it. They've never had two lines like this. It's unbelievable. I'll admit there are nights at the NBA and this weekend was rough other than the Memphis-Utah game. And then, you know,

I know we'll get to Suns-Lakers because there was at least some intrigue there, but there's been too many nights for the second TV. I'm like peeking over and then I realized I have to rewind the basketball game. Well, the worst one has been Portland-Denver,

which we're going to talk about way later because it's been so aggressively uninteresting. It's so clearly headed to a game. So we'll talk about that. Can we finish the clips really quick? Yeah. They're stuck now with Kawhi, George, Batum, Jackson, Morris, Zubach, and Rondo. And I'm stuck like they're stuck on those seven guys. They kind of get it now. They started Jackson tonight, too. Yeah, yeah. I had Jackson there.

I'm just saying, like, those are their seven. No, I'm just, right, okay. They're going to go small. Zubach is going to play a ton. And then you look at this next round, assuming they get by Dallas, which I'm going to, I've done a 180 on this series.

The blue is not 100%. I don't think Dallas has a chance. They play Utah next round. I don't think they're going to be able to go small like that unless they're hitting threes like they did today which brings us to the conundrum talking about the Clippers it's probably the most boring team

to talk about because if the threes go in they look great and if they don't go in they're going to lose and I wish I had it's almost like talking about a hockey team where it's like yeah they got you know got to have that hot goal come playoff time Because if the threes go in, they look great. And if they don't go in, they're going to lose. And I wish I had... It's almost like talking about a hockey team

where it's like, yeah, they got to have that hot goal and come playoff time. And there's nothing to say. The Clippers, it's like if the threes go in, they're really good. And if they don't go in, they're not good. I can't imagine another game, the rest of the playoffs being easier

for their two wings to get involved. George has had moments too where he's been really aggressive. I mean, I call him 30-13 because he can get 30 in these games. And his overall shooting line isn't going to look that good, I think, tonight.

But you could see early, and I even saw from him in game two when they lost, where at least it was getting to him of like, hey, I need to attack. And really, when you look at the wings, I mean, Kleber's the guy that's on Kawhi. So if that's the case, they can

spread them out and go. I mean, it's a Clippers team that had, what, six guys over 40%, which never happened in an NBA regular season. If that number still held up, I know that it's what it was towards the end of the year. But I'll admit after the first two games, I was starting to think about all the times now, three years of talking about this, the separation of what regular season and postseason basketball looks like where, okay, if you have a team that's so reliant on the three, you never really figured out your rotation. And you have a couple of guys that I think have checked out historically, not talking about Kawhi, obviously.

And Ty Lue in his first year, when it felt like everybody was on Doc because of the Montrez. And look, there was some rotational stuff with Doc where he was stubborn about it and people got pissed and he ends up in Philadelphia stuff with Doc where he was stubborn about it. And people got pissed. And he ends up in Philadelphia. And then Lou's supposed to fix it. And then you see some of the same stuff where you're like, why are you closing with this group? Or why, you know, look, Zubac, I think they want to get him in. But then he gets exposed in some of the switches.

So all of these things are happening. And it seems, this is sports. It seems unfathomable that this is the same matchup for four games. It just does it i you know and so now you're sitting here going all right they go back to la five if donchich isn't right then it is over but i'm i don't know maybe you just chalk it up to you know was dallas going to continually shoot it the way they've shot it and that's i think what was so frustrating about game one for the clippers is they're looking at it going, okay, we had a plan and it didn't matter.

And Donchus just destroyed him. It's tough to overreact to this stuff because I thought the Suns were done. And then Chris Paul, oh, I'm going to do it. Your favorite thing. What percent was Chris Paul today? I got to say he looked in the 55, 62 range. And then today I got to give him like looked in the 55-62 range. And then today, I got to give him like 81% to 83% today. That's how I thought he looked today.

He made his patented drive to the right, hop step, fall away, jump thing a couple times, which means his shoulders at least functional. To me, Doncic looked 50% today. And I don't think that gets better in two games, but I also, in two days, but I also don't want to do the thing I did with Chris Paul. I'm like, oh, he's done. The sons are done. And then with the treatment they have now and all the shit you can do, and if you have some injured part of your body, they really can speed up the treatment in a way where in the old days it would be two weeks and now it's 48 hours so who knows luca could come out for game five and look awesome but he looked like shit today

well at least with luca he's so young that you'd expect you know his recovery is going to be far beyond most stars but he was wincing all of game three him and mitchell had a wince off this playoffs mitchell mitchell was making shots last night and still looked miserable. I can't wait to talk about that game because that was the first thing. When he hit the three over Valanciunas, well, we'll save it for later, but I was like,

is he still mad about something or what's going on here? Do you think the last dance was the worst thing that happened for some of this stuff? People watch Jordan, the flu game, and they're like, if I'm ever not feeling well,

I'm just going to wince my fucking ass off every time I'm making shots. Well, LeBron was almost blinded in that the flu game. They're like, if I'm ever not feeling well, I'm just going to wince my fucking ass off every time I'm making shots. LeBron was almost blinded in that Golden State game. I forgot about that. He seems okay. His eyesight seems all right. Yeah. Thought he had like a detached retina, but apparently not.

Yeah. He's seen three rims out there. Yeah. Just picked the one in the middle. But are we still on Dallas Clippers here? Because I think we're good. No, I think we can, uh,

I think we can take, well, crisis averted for the Clippers. Yeah. Yeah. At least now we won't start playing in the off season. Kawhi won't be in a Miami Jersey yet, but they went to commercial on Friday night when it was 14 to two,

I would have bet everything I own that it was headed toward a Mavs win and the whole thing. It's like a really a crazy moment. And I remember like, I knew Luca got hurt when I was watching the announcers missed it and I rewound it. And it was like, Rondo kind of came in,

Luca was driving down the middle and Rondo came in and he just kind of hit wrong. And then he walked away and he was like doing this thing with his arm where he was doing like the, the, when you have like a starting pitcher who, you know, his arms kind of fucked up, they start like doing the shoulder thing. And it was like,

oh, that doesn't look good. And he was like, never the same from that point on. All right. We'll take a break. We're talking Lakers sons. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Superbow Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. So I'm watching Lakers Suns today.

Lakers go up like 10 in the second quarter. I got Murph, my puppy, who's basically the real life Marlene and me dog. And he's acting frisky. Anytime he really wants to go out, he just starts like jumping the other dogs, like drive-by shooting the other dogs, punching them and just gets really rowdy. He's like a hockey enforcer. So I'm like, I gotta take him out.

Take him for a walk. Come back. The Suns are winning and Davis is out. And I'm like, what happened? I thought I left at the safest part of this game. I was like, ah, the Lakers are going to go up 3-1. This is a wrap. And the whole series flips

and Davis doesn't come back. And LeBron had a bizarre game where he's doing this thing now where he's just, he's got a couple different levels and he doesn't, he doesn't go into fifth gear really for, for more than a half, but today he was trying to make it. So he only went into fifth gear for like a quarter and a half. So I think he's saving whatever is in his

tank for later. So finally he's flicked the switch and that didn't work either. And the sun's had an answer for everything. Aiton was a monster. Now it's 2-2. Going back to Phoenix, I don't think Davis plays and the groin thing is tough with the... They said it was day-to-day, but even if he plays, I don't think he's going to be 100%. And the Suns have 5-7

at home. I thought this series was done, Russillo. Now I don't know what to think, but I'm happy for you because your guy, your guy Chris Paul, who's headed for yet another terrible playoff collapse. And now the, the, the switch has been flipped and he has a chance to put LeBron and the Lakers away. You gotta be out of your mind. Well, I've been pretty bummed out. I'm not going to lie to you, you know, because you could tell in games two and three, you're like, all right, now, now what?

You know, because it just, it was real. It was real and it wasn't happening. And then today the news is the game time decision. I don't know if there's a little gamesmanship in that. I think there was. There's the first thing I'm looking for is how does he look? But the thing is, if you watch Chris Paul with this team, in particular this season at all, he will not coast.

Some guys coast. Some guys coast. Paul doesn't coast, but Paul will balance the needs of those around him with his own aggressiveness, right? Because if he wanted to take more shots and score 25 a game, Chris Paul could still do that, but he doesn't. So sometimes it's a little hard, but you could tell there was dribbling stuff that he was doing today. You're like, all right, that looks better. Some passing angle stuff. Okay, that looks better. Driving hard in the paint and then coming up and pulling up.

And then there was just some little seeds of it. Well, he was also doing the fast stomp that LeBron does too. When they're really into the game, they're stomping around. They just have a different energy. Even like with during dead balls, they're just kind of, they're kind of manic almost. And that he had that today, which made me think he was all right. So at 54-50 at half, and you're right, the Lakers are up 36-25 in this one, but Davis still hadn't really done anything. Like, I think he'd only taken two free throws.

He only like two points in the paint. And you're going, what is up? Like, and look, I love Anthony Davis. I defend him all the time, but I get the critiques of him. We're like, do you really need to do this again after game one to like, you're going to take off a half here And look, I love Anthony Davis. I defend him all the time, but I get the critiques of him. We're like, do you really need to do this again after game one? You're going to take off a half here in game four?

And it's a Lakers team that still, you know, Gasol in this matchup is actually okay, unless they were going to try to find a way to abuse him on perimeter screens. But they weren't really doing that. So it was clear like Gasol was a better finisher. But at 54-40 at the half, Paul turned it up in the start of the second half. And at this point, we still weren't sure what was going on Davis, even though we found out pretty soon afterwards. And I remember writing to my notes when I still thought AD might come back.

I was like, wait, can the Suns win this game? Can they still win this game? Because what they were doing was off a miss, they were pushing. And Aiton got that seal on LeBron. They went like an 8-0 run. I think it was 60-50 at that point. And then even off a make, they pushed it and Paul was pushing it and going like, let's go, let's go. And I'm like, he's back. I was like, he looks back to me. Maybe not a hundred percent because Booker was struggling too as well, but you could see an awareness of them. Like we have

a chance here. And then you find out Davis isn't coming back at all. So I'm not going to sit there and be like, Hey, the sun's figured them out. We don't know, but no Davis. I mean, Davis was the whole reason why I was like, as much as I want to pick Phoenix and as much as I love their group and they

know what the rotation is and how all the pieces fit when it's right between LA and Phoenix, it's clearly a Laker series. But now with the Davis part of it and him being that big and all the injuries and all the stuff that he deals with, like a groin is brutal, especially a guy that big. So he might come back, but if he's passive when he was healthy, what the hell is he going to be like with a strained groin? Is he really going to be taken to the hoop and setting up and being physical the entire time? Because, you know, the criticism on him when he's not doing that stuff, he just kind of lets himself

get into these situations where he doesn't look like he's assertive enough. So I don't know what to make of it, but Phoenix has a real chance here if we're talking about a non-100% Davis, which is what I would expect the last three games. It's been the full Davis package in this series. Really has. He's gone down at least four times like he was shot. He's had, I'm not sure that was an injury and we've had this was definitely an injury he's also been awesome a couple different times and when he's right the Lakers still seem unbeatable to me

near the end of game three there was this moment that made me think this series was over and the Lakers were going to win it was when LeBron had that back and forth with Crowder and he posted him up in front of the bench and the whole bench was up and LeBron had that back and forth with Crowder and he posted him up in front of the bench and the whole bench was up and LeBron was just like really fucking with him.

He's smiling. Remember? And Drummond was pretending to post up like a shadow as LeBron was posting up and LeBron was smiling and then he scored. And I was just like, this is the kind of shit you do when you know you have the series. And at that point I was like, the Lakers have the series. This is a wrap.

So the two things flip. And when LeBron flipped the switch today and was like, all right, I'm going to have to take this over, couldn't really totally take it over. The Suns, I thought, did a really nice job staying in front of him. Aiton was immense. And we should just have the Aiton conversation now. Because when you take a guy first in the draft and you have Luka on the board and they passed up

and the catch would be, well, we already have Booker. This guy has a chance to be the second best player on a really good playoff team because he can protect the rim. He can rebound. He can do lobs, he can do all these things, young legs, and there's not a lot of these types of guys. So we're not going to take Luka

because we already have Booker. Now, obviously, they should have taken Luka. But how this Aiton thing has played out and how he's played in this series at least doesn't make it a disaster. And I think that draft has become really fascinating because you had three teams pass on a generational superstar. But two of the three teams got guys that weren't bad.

The only one that's really a disaster is Sacramento with Bagley. I mean, that's like historic almost at this point. You're almost ready to put Bagley in the same Bowie paragraph. But Aiton is going to make it all-star team. And he could be like the third best guy on a championship team. Yeah. I think the Aiton story has been all over the place. If you watch it all year,

uh, it was very clear about midway through the season. I felt like Booker and Paul were kind of sick of them. And I'm telling you, like I would look at it and saying like, eh, they don't even want to, they're not even looking at him cause they don't trust him to catch it.

And Booker even had a play in the first half where he got it to Aiton and Aiton fumbled it. And then Booker started yelling at him. Yeah, he got mad at him. And so I think it's a, well, it's an educated observation that there were moments where those guys were frustrated with Aiton. So because he's the number one pick and you start going like, hey, his ceiling is probably a little bit lower than you'd want as a number one pick. But I've seen from him

stretches now and even in this series, he battles his ass off, man. He really, really tries and he cares and he's athletic enough that he's going to, I mean, he had 17 boards today,

so it wasn't even the scoring. But also having him get out and run in transition off of those misses and be like, hey, I'll be running. Like, you may not get it to me all the time, but I'm going to be out here and running and I'm not going to give up. And the fact that on paper, how outmanned this front line is and he's out there battling, I have a ton of respect for him, even if I feel like, okay, maybe he's not going to be this superstar. I still think that's a bit of a reach, but he cares. He absolutely like he cares. And I think it's really great for his growth. And I think there were some concerns where halfway through the year,

you might've been like, shit, what's this guy going to be? And I've just feel better about it now. This is why I love the playoffs. I mean, there's a lot of reasons of the playoffs, but you know, you're looking under the hood

at this point with the playoffs. You can have the car, the car can look nice in the driveway, but when the playoffs come around, now we get're looking under the hood at this point with the playoffs, you can have the car, the car can look nice in the driveway, but when the playoffs come around, now we get to look under the hood and see what's actually in there. This dude really gives a shit. He's really competitive. He doesn't take plays off.

Um, he just tries and he's not, you know, he, I don't think he's as talented as mid two thousands Dwight was when Dwight, when his career started to kind of take off. And it was just like, this guy might be the second or third best athlete in the league other than LeBron and T-Mac.

Yeah, I mean, peak Dwight, as much as you and I talk about him, peak Dwight was a guy you'd start your franchise with and feel great about. I think I had him number one in the trade value one year, number two behind LeBron and stuff like that. Aiton's not that kind of athlete, but he gives a shit more than Dwight did. He might be better in that he doesn't expect to close the game with 10 post possessions where that was the biggest frustration with Dwight.

He knows who he is. Yeah, Dwight wanted to be that guy, and he just wasn't good enough offensively. You know what else? He's good around the rim. He's not clumsy. I think he's got nice hands. Well, he could catch better. No, he could, but he's a young player, though.

Yeah, there's something with him on that, though. No, I'm not. I'm telling you. I'm talking about around the rim, like catching rebounds and stuff like that. Like, he's got decent hands. The frustration with him is like the pick and rolls with Chris. That's when he gets exposed. He's not a Marist Ademir. He's got decent hands. The frustration with him is like the pick and rolls with Chris. That's when he gets exposed.

He's not a Marist Ademeyer. He's just not. Yeah, I don't know what his go-to is. He's just down. But I don't want to... Look, I think we're just being fair in his limitations. I think this is who he is. I think he's a 20 and 15 guy in the playoffs

who you don't have to run plays for, which is great because they have Paul. Nobody wants to run plays for Biggs anyway. Yeah, seriously. I don't want to run plays for Aiton. You know what I want you to do? Run the fucking four, protect the rim, get me some offensive rebounds. And when you're around the basket, put the little three footers in. That's it. I don't want to run plays for you. This is the problem with Porzingis where where you could see it in game three, where it's like Porzingis is like,

oh, Lucas hurt. I'm going to post up. It's like, all right, this has, what, a 40% chance of working out, the Porzingis post up? I don't want to post up. But he's a problem because, you know, you could tell when he's out,

they're kind of trying to survive those minutes, right? And if we want to get conspiracy theory about this series, if the league wants the Lakers to advance or they want a game seven, the quickest way to do this will be in game five or in game six, they'll get two fouls in the first three minutes, right? They'll be like, oh, Aiden's got two

fouls. Here we go. You still believe in that stuff? I do. I do. You don't think anyone would ever, that would, like, all the people that have to be involved in that happening, you don't think anybody eventually would, like, and I'm not talking Donaghy, that somebody wouldn't be like, hey, this is actually what's going on. I'm not saying it's a Donaghy thing.

I'm saying it's a, if somebody's really physical, the other team sends in the clips, be like, hey, watch Aiton. Aiton's pushing off on those offensive rebounds. Aiton's coming in. Aiton's not keeping his feet set on those picks. And then the next game, the refs are like, oh, I have these strings in my head with Aiton's pushing off on those offensive rebounds. Aiton's coming in. Aiton's not keeping his feet set on those picks. And then the next game, the refs are like, oh, I have these strings in my head with Aiton.

And then, you know, they're just more aware of them. And I think that does happen. I think refs overreact to things from games before. Yeah, I'm not going to say they're going to come out and be like, all right, get two fouls on Aiton. But they could call games in a way where somebody like him could get fouls more easily. The game today, the Celtics-Nets game, Tristan Thompson could add 20 fouls in that game if they called it correctly. They can kind of decide what they're going to call game to game.

Well, Tristan could have 20 fouls. Yeah, you're right. I mean, literally in any game. What happened to him? How does he not know how to defend pick and rolls anymore? Remember, that was the thing. They won a title with him in crunch time, defending pick and rolls. He can't defend pick and rolls anymore?

He's like, he had like a head injury. Anyway, Aiton, great stuff. You had sent me a text because, you know, they got a big there late and lebron did get more assertive and you could kind of tell like you know when dallas doesn't have doncha challenge out there it's a mess and i think sometimes it's kind of like our westbrook thing in the past where when you have westbrook play a certain way all regular season and you're used to playing a certain way around him and then it's like oh no now you do something it's like wait what like okay you want me to do something and i I think Dallas has a little of that. Although Brunson can be assertive at times.

And when Dallas looks good, you're like, oh, Hardaway's got a little something. And look at this guy. I mean, Josh Richardson, I don't know what the hell happened there. But the Porzingis part where they try to go through him, it just doesn't work. I mean, again, I've always been a big Porzingis guy. I've been pretty off it this year because it's hard to defend. I would give up. I would maybe pack up the box and send it to Goodwill, your Porzingis guy. I've been pretty off it this year because it's hard to defend. I would give up. I would maybe pack up the box and send it to Goodwill, your Porzingis stuff. Yeah. Well, I made a bunch of it initially. I was a first round angel investor. I liked

him before anyway. So I already made a ton of money on my Porzingis stock, but whatever I've held on to, I was like, oh, I guess I can't get two boats. It's like Dogecoin. Yeah. So- Wait, can we talk about the Lakers really quick? Or yeah, no, I'm bringing it back.

I'm bringing it back. I thought LeBron actually, you know, did get pretty assertive there at the end, but you know, Kuzma was, was bad. Uh,

Kuzma. Go ahead. I just, I, if he played for like Detroit, nobody would even know what he looked like. Yeah. I mean,

he was the leading scorer in a bad Lakers team. So he's got some shine, you know, he's, he's got some, I don't know what he is. I thought he was going to reinvent himself as this defensive dude. Maybe it's not the serious for him,

but, um, he's just not, he's too like upright in his, in his feet. I used to like and stuff with him but there's just something about him and the way he moves defensively um but i actually thought they were starting to figure it out a little bit with him um because last year he had a harder time with it and you could tell like the minutes if lebron

doesn't play with you that's a pretty good sign that something's wrong lebron sent a text to somebody and then they've played together more. I don't know what it is, but I just feel like all the, all the games of watching this year were like, it was pretty clear last year. Kuzma wasn't out there when LeBron was out there. Um, but you sent me a text on one of the threads and you were like, are you preparing yourself for another epic Chris Paul collapse? And I thought it was way too early. I thought it was way too early for that text. Well, cause cause LeBron had that look all of a sudden. He did.

I was like, oh my God, the Suns are going to blow this. Chris has a Game 4 history. There's been some rocky Game 4s in his past, and I was just preparing you. You could call it a reverse jinx. He had that steal, which was monumental on that Gasol pass. Huge play. So as it sits here 2-2,

and then Paul talks after the fact the fact he was almost crying bill like did you see his post game he was almost brought to tears and i was just like i love this guy so much i think he was happy to be in person with rachel nichols his his buddy from the jump just like that might have been it that they're they're like the frost nixon of our generation no it's a good point it's a good point. It's a good point. But I'm sitting there thinking about what I need to prepare myself for mentally. Because look, for whatever anybody thinks about my rooting interest and all this different stuff,

the only thing I'm rooting for now is Chris Paul. And I know how challenging it is. Can I give you a scenario? Can I spell it out for you? Suns win game five. Davis doesn't play. Yeah. Game six, Davis comes back.

Aiton gets four fouls in the first 90 seconds of the game. Two touch fouls. Four. Four in the first 90 seconds. Monty didn't realize he had three. He didn't take him out in time. He got a fourth one. It followed by three technicals.

His assistant sitting there with a clipboard being like, I had two. I had two. We basically reenacted Kings-Lakers game six in 2002. And now we're back in Phoenix for game seven. But it's like Phoenix is home. They've got this. And then they blow like a six-point lead.

Paul retweaks his injury. And then they blow a six-point lead in the last five minutes. And then LeBron hits the game-winning shot, and now the last dance stuff starts again. When I look at all the series, and believe me, I'll bring it to the Clippers-Phoenix side of this, I feel like once things settled, at least the way I saw the series, they settled in the way that I thought they would. I mean, people wanted to act like the Wizards maybe were competitive with Philly. I know what the score was. I watched the game. I don't think there was ever like the Wizards maybe were competitive with Philly. I know what the score was.

I watched the game. I don't think there was ever any threat. And the rest of that series has played out the way I thought it would. Atlanta got the first one. You see the second one. That one's played out the way I thought it would. Miami. Hey, the overtime.

No, not really. Brooklyn, Boston. Forget it. And then even with... And we knew Nuggets Blazers was going to go seven. We didn't know who was going to win. I didn't really know who to pick because you know what? It's going seven.

We'll get to it. But when one team wins, you're like, oh, that team's not going to lose. And then they're down 30 the next day. So Phoenix, LA played out the way I thought it would play out. But game one was misleading because you go, look at Phoenix. Wow. And I just was surprised more people had picked Phoenix because I just felt like when it's right, when both teams are right, Phoenix isn't going to be able to handle this front line. And then LA just looks so big and dominant the previous two games. I go,

okay, so now this is the first time since the series was announced that I've allowed myself the thought of Chris Paul getting through the Lakers in the first round, which again, it's not the same thing with no Davis. But the reason I bring that all up is I have two friends. I think I've told the story once before and it'll be quick. It won't be the way bog story. I'll tell you, I promise you. One of my friends was like making a move, right? He was getting like a fancier apartment. He may have started dating somebody. It was like going to be a real grownup. We're all around 30 years, 30 years old. And one of our other friends who has zero filter whatsoever, but he feels like he has no filter whatsoever.

So let's call the one guy, Steve, that was making the move. And the advice guy's name was Mark. And everybody was really excited for Steve. And Mark said, I don't know. I don't know if I'm excited for you. Because I think what you're doing is you think you're reaching a higher high, but you really could be setting yourself up for a lower low. And that's how I feel about this Chris Paul storyline because I've talked myself into it now possibly happening when I couldn't be that disappointed when I didn't think it was a reality. In your favor, how many players on the Lakers at some point over the last six hours

texted somebody who is close to them and said I should be playing more three-fourths of the roster do the Lakers not have to worry about the Taylor Horton Tucker Max anymore who's his rookie cards have taken a dip

I don't think the Lakers I think everyone on that team feels like I should be doing more. I should be playing more. I don't know why they're not like even Schroeder

they're the the last gasp Lakers moment for them right where it was LeBron was kind of feeling it. They were like down eight.

It was still kind of conceivable last two minutes. Paul pick us all. And then the next place Schroeder's like, I got this, did this crazy layup and missed. And,

um, I just, I just feel like their calibrations a little off. They weirdly miss KCP. I was texting a Laker buddy. I agree.

I was like, wow, you guys miss KCP. I can't believe I'm, you know why though? Cause he's like real rotation minutes. And that's what's so crazy about some of the stuff that we're seeing here in the playoffs

is we got the two teams that probably most people picked who still don't really know what their rotation is. The Nets probably do now if those three get it because it kind of doesn't really matter. But when I watch the Lake, and again, Davis goes down, so you're scrambling a bit and you're trying to figure it out. But the Gasol drumming thing, like I've had times you're like,

why is everybody so excited about Gasol? And then I watched drum and play and then Montrez can't even get out there now. And so the Pope part is you're right on with it. Cause at least it's a 30 minute plugin that you go, all right, there's nobody else that I think should be taking his minutes away from him. You could close with something differently because the the Caruso defensive part of this.

But then again, that depends on who you're playing. Well, he's another one. All of a sudden, he looks terrible. He was one of the biggest reasons they won the Warriors playing game. And now, you know, it doesn't look like he can figure out how to have any sort of impact in this series. I think the Laker fans should be nervous. They at least have their excuse now. They can blame the Davis injury.

I'll just remind them that they won in 09 because KG got hurt and they won in 2010 because Perkins got hurt. So you're not allowed to play the injury card, guys. Let's take a break. We'll come back in one second. So if the Lakers get bounced in round one, do we have to go back to 2020 bubble playoff basketball and just... I'm not saying put an asterisk next to it,

but just be like, all right, that was fucking weird. And that goes along with the 1999 post-lockout playoffs where the Knicks made it as an eight seed. We'll just look at that historically. Cause I'm, I'm kind of leaning toward that's how we're going to remember it. I know you want that to be there. You want me to say,

great take, great idea. Let's let's ding them here. Um, I I'm going to, I'm going to push back on this. It's, it's two,

two Davis got hurt. I was leaning more towards the Miami part. The fact that Miami got swept seven months later, now the Lakers are in trouble. It's 2-2. Davis got hurt. I was leaning more toward the Miami part. The fact that Miami got swept seven months later, now the Lakers are in trouble. It's like, all right, what do I make of the bubble now? The Celtics are fucking terrible? See, I would give you a harder time. Somebody else might call you a fraud.

I would call you consistent because this is the first time now that you've been anti that Miami team because I had to hear from you how they were hurt and they actually were closer in the NBA finals when they didn't have a fucking chance to beat that Lakers team last year. I'm sorry. They weren't beating them. And you've told me six games a million different times.

So you've actually been incredibly consistent about this until now that you just want to dismiss Miami for the first time since they were in the NBA finals, what, seven months ago? I think the combo, the bubble, but also just watching normal basketball with crowds again and seeing home court advantage again. I just don't know if Milwaukee loses a conventional playoffs to Miami.

I guess would be my case. Yeah, but I think Milwaukee's better. Milwaukee's better, Miami's not. The bubble had a way of narrowing any sort of advantages you had and then it could be you know Jimmy Butler doesn't need a crowd he's a self motivator like there's all these weird scenarios

I don't know I just was I look back at the bubble and how weird some of those series were and results were you know even Toronto hanging tough with Fred Van Vliet and Lowry and Siakam, you know, having a horrible series and somehow almost winning, you know, making the conference finals.

It was just like, it was just weird. I just think we're going to remember it as a really weird two months of basketball that I loved. I really enjoyed it. I love the competitiveness of it, but I don't really think it resembled the typical playoffs. And I think that's how we're going to remember it. I love the competitiveness of it, but I don't really think it resembled the typical playoffs, and I think

that's how we're going to remember it. That's my only case. Yeah, I'm just, I'm not there yet, and I'd also add to it that part of the reason the Lakers if things were normal, they didn't miss their two best players for almost half the season, then they're not a seven seed playing a really

good Phoenix team. Right. And that's the asterisk for this season, then they're not a seven seed playing a really good Phoenix team. Right. And that's the asterisk for this season, right? The condensed regular season led to some seed chicanery and led to the Lakers probably have to play game seven in Phoenix. Jazz, I don't know what to make of the Mitchell thing

anymore. He's hurt. He's not hurt. He's making the game winning plays down the stretch, but looks like he's's hurt. He's not hurt. He's making the game winning plays down the stretch, but looks like he's still hurt. Clearly incredibly important to them. And if I'm Memphis,

I felt like game three was sitting there for them and they lost their composure and they just looked like a really young team that really wanted it. They were home. It was a tie game, five minutes left. They had a ton of momentum. Brooks gets a dumb foul and all of a sudden they're down 10.

I feel like this one's playing out the way it should play out. And as much as I think we've all kind of loved this Memphis run, you know, and appreciated it and learning about Ja and Ja getting the national notoriety and looking at him and going, hey, you hey, this team's kind of sneaky deep.

Watching that fourth quarter last night was like a nice reminder of how good Utah can be. And I'm with you. Mitchell had only played 20 minutes total by the time he checked back into the fourth quarter and Conley had been doing a really good job, but you still weren't sure because it felt like Mitchell was out there. And you're like, and I'm looking at it. How many, I'm like, how many possessions has he been in there? He hasn't touched the ball. And then boom, the end one drive, he gets Valanciunas who Memphis, you know, like we talk about with bigs a lot in the playoffs, it can be super frustrating trying to figure out like, who's like out how is my big going to work tonight?

Because some nights it works, and sometimes it's just not working. Valanciunas gets caught in a screen. It wasn't even that tough of a switch. It was just, okay, Mitchell's going to have a little momentum. Valanciunas is backing up a little bit, sticks the three. And then he gets Brooks in a dumb foul, which is just going to continue to happen now all the time. It's like guys can't stop fouling on the three-point line.

It's out of control. And he gets Brooks fouled out, makes his free throws. But you're right. I wrote down. I'm like, why is he so mad? Is he pissed off about being sat out? What the hell is going on with this team? But look, they're better than them.

And you can tell Ja, who's not hitting the shots that he hit against Golden State in the playing game. Like, that's the plan. And you can also see, too, a little bit like the Giannis wall that we talk about. It's the primary defender with Ja. Gobert goes to the free throw line, and then whoever is the closest wing defender leaks towards him,

and it still doesn't work all the time. But if they can stop him, especially when Brooks is on the bench towards the end, there's just not a second guy. And Jaron Jackson, for all the talent, the guy's only played like 11 or 12 games and he can't hit a shot. He can't hit a shot. So that's a huge problem for them right now.

Youthful exuberance with Ja. We talked about this in part one, where Trey has kind of gone up a level with how to control the game. Ja's still trying to dunk over Rudy Gobert because it would be cool for the crowd if he dunked on Rudy Gobert in a playoff game. Jha's still trying to dunk over Rudy Gobert because it would be cool for the crowd if he dunked

on Rudy Gobert in a playoff game. But it's like, dude, there's five minutes left and not only are you not going to dunk on Rudy Gobert, he's going to block it or foul you, but you actually might... That's a great way to get hurt. I don't know. I love it. I don't like it in a playoff game. It's like, you got to pick your spots, dude.

You're not dunking on Rudy Gobert. Like that's how you break your wrist. If he got one on him and they come back and win, we'd all be saying like that changed the game because somebody finally got Gobert. I just really worry about how reckless Jaws sometimes with some of these drives. Yeah.

I really think he's going to get hurt. And I think the, I've talked to like Verno and Grizzlies fans about it. It's the biggest fear of the whole Grizzlies fan base is he plays like this, you know, this crazy wide receiver who's flying over the middle into three safeties, you know? And,

and I don't know, you gotta pick your spots, but, um, they're young. They got a lot of promise. The Jackson thing to me, you said it,

the fact that they're getting nothing out of him. Imagine if it was 80% of what you thought you were going to get from him. I wonder, why aren't they playing Tillman more? How many minutes did he play? He didn't play in game three. He got a DMP that last game. I think I really like Tillman. I would have at least thrown him out there because I think,

at least against Gobert, he can defend a little bit on one end, but at least you can pull him away. I'd like to see them try that. This is all breaking beautifully for Utah, this whole Western thing, where you had the Clippers who looked like they were going to take a haymaker and then Luka gets hurt.

So now the Clippers are going to advance. I wouldn't be afraid to play them. And then you have in the other bracket, you have the Lakers potentially not even being there. And you could have a Phoenix versus Portland slash Denver in the other bracket. And yeah, Utah. I don't know.

It's weird to think of them in a final. I don't know why. It kind of breaks your brain, right? The Utah Jazz would be in the finals? I just think people have a hard time with it because none of these guys have done anything. We have a hard time with new. We just have a hard time when it hasn't been done.

Even Golden State's first year, it was like, wait, what? I remember Ethan Strauss picked him. with new yeah we just have a hard time when it's when it hasn't been done you know even golden state's first year it was like wait what like i remember ethan strauss picked him he covered him for espn.com and he picked him win the title that first year and people were kind of like what so what are you doing so did bill simmons at 30 to 1 me and sal bet on it that was your bet or was that your pick we bet on them at 30 to 1 okay you bet on them at 30 to one. Okay. You bet on it at 30 to one. And it was my pick. And it was my pick. You picked them before the season started.

You picked Golden State to win the title. I picked them and I bet on them at 30 to one. How, what, you didn't bet on anyone else, huh? Nope. Really?

I was all in on Steve Kerr. Yeah. Wow. Remember 2015 was a weird year. No, I think I picked, I picked the Cleveland Golden State final. And I think I had Cleveland beating Golden State, but I bet on Golden State.

That's impressive. I didn't know that. I figured Mark Jackson and Steve Kerr was worth at least two series wins. Two series wins. That's proven correct. Nuggets Blazers quickly. I don't know. Can't think of an angle. I just feel like we're going seven.

I have no idea who's going to win. We've seen the best and worst of each team. And I wish I had something smart to say about this series, but I just don't. Jokic isn't getting much help. Game three, he got an all- timer game from Austin rivers who just starts lighting

everybody up. You know, we know in game one, single coverage, Hey, that was smart. That worked. Look what happened.

Why would you pick Denver? Look at the backcourt mismatch here. I mean, it's absurd what kind of guards Portland's running out there against what Denver's running out there. And the reason I like Denver is because I was like, well, they're just bigger, though.

They're bigger everywhere. And Portland doesn't beat any good teams in the regular season. It's not going to matter. Every game has looked different. So I thought, like, hey, Denver settled. They figured it out. They're bigger. Even if they're not playing single against Jokic all the time,

I couldn't stop laughing game three when they decided to go, like, Covington, and then they brought Mellow over for the worst double ever. Who's worse at doubling, Mello or Westbrook? Both of them do it like they're drunk guys leaving a bar. They trip over a beer bottle and they fall in a homeless guy. The difference is Westbrook doesn't tell it. No one else knows when he's going to do it. True. He does rogue doubles.

He'll just double and then a guy will go baseline free and then everybody looks at westbrook and then he just turns around to them mellow it appears to have been a delayed double but he really delayed it and then he got caught and he was it's just a dunk over his head but if you look at some of the efficiency numbers beyond yokich like milsaps the only guy really getting it done for him um you know some of the some of the numbers look okay. I think they're a little misleading for them. I'm with you. I don't know what to make of this series because whoever ends up winning, you're like,

oh, they're not going to lose again. I just like Denver's size more, but if you tell me Portland's backcourt's just too much for Denver, Dame, Game 7, it's a tough thing to go against. I suck on this series. I've watched it all.

I do too. I haven't bet any of the games. I don't know what to make of it. Malone lit them up. Said they played soft. Nurkic had one good game. So you were like, oh, wait, is he back? And then when he fouled out at Game 3,

it was over. And then they couldn't play Kanter. So they went small in game three. Poor Kanter. Year after year, whoever his coach is realizes he can't play Kanter when he actually needs him. It seems like the Blazers are down to seven guys. Yeah. And then they were down 30 in game four.

So then you don't have to worry about the Kanter part. And then the Nuggets are down to like 15 guys. They have no idea who to play other than the best couple guys. It's like, if you're wearing a Nuggets uniform, you might play in a playoff game. It really might happen. But I guess by one point I would make about this series is it'll be a good legacy one for either Jokic or Dame

because I don't think either of their teams are very good. But whoever comes out of this would be like, wow, look at that, Serious. Before we go, I want to talk about Bottle Guy, because I do have a take on this. Yeah, go for it. So one shithead Celtics fan thinks it's a good idea to toss a plastic water bottle

as Kyrie's leaving the court today. First of all, I don't understand why anybody does anything at these games. They have cameras everywhere. They can find whoever does whatever. They're going to hunt you down. So just first point, that's idiotic. Second, just don't do that anyway. Like you're there to cheer, boo, whatever.

I just don't get the mindset of I'm going to throw something. I'm going to cross some line. Like, what's the point? But then it gets tied into like fans plural when it's one rogue asshole who does something. And it's like, this is one person. You can't judge 20,000 people by one. So don't do that either. But I guess my bigger point is this. People love getting upset about the fan behavior and how terrible it is. And can't believe this. We've got to do better.

Everybody is immoralizing about it. I would argue the behavior is terrible across the board everywhere. It actually makes sense to me that it's getting worse at NBA games, that people are acting more inappropriately than maybe they did two, three years ago because that's kind of what happened all over the place.

I mean, social media is a fucking cesspool. I don't think people treat each other very well across the board. And I'm actually, I guess I'm surprised dumb shit like this doesn't happen more often because I think we're losing sense of how to treat other people. So some shithead at this game today is like, oh, there's Kyrie. He's leaving hand, is it any different than saying something shitty to somebody on Twitter? I think the mindset of just like, I'm going to act like a dick and there aren't going to be any consequences seems to be all over the place right now. And it just bums me out, I guess is my point. Yeah.

You know, I'm with you i'm kind of surprised it doesn't happen more often because i think the lack of respect that we all have for each other has never been lower or again we just have more access to the lack of respect um which is also why i think you have so many players being like hey i'm sick of this shit because not only they're getting yelled at during the game they're going home to check stuff and they're getting ds. If their Instagram DMs are opening and getting awful shit said to them all the time. I mean, I don't get it that bad, but I understand it enough. I've seen things, you know. Anybody who's a public figure gets it.

You're going to have stuff sent to you and you could sit there and talk about it all the time as it gets old. So I'm with you because like I watch, I watch AAU videos on Instagram and it's honestly the worst slice of our society. Like it's so bad. I watch these videos of like these young kids playing basketball and then the people and how they behave. And I was like, this is awful. Like this is normal. And every time I watch one of them, it's like, I got to close out of it. So you might be onto something there. I think the coverage of it from a media thing like you feel like you have to do something on it but just from an interesting

level like I'm not I'm not going to sit there and do an open on the podcast and I didn't touch on it this week being like okay when I see somebody say the NBA needs to do more or the NBA needs to do this or this has to stop we can't let this happen anymore it's like so what you're really asking is that you need something to be implemented that changes personal behavior forever that seems like a challenging task so it's not indifference i'm mad about it too i'm mad about it because you know here's boston that i believe is you know so unpopular right now um for i guess a bunch of different reasons and you know i don't think anybody confuses me like people that that know me know it's not like i'm running around i have like boston flags all over my house okay but everything that happened this week but

you're from the vineyard you're barely from mess yeah trust me yeah i know no i'm aware basically in puerto rico where'd you go to high school so i uh you know i i i look at it and go hey you know that that dickhead you know made everybody feel even better about dumping on boston so you know i i don't know like i don't there's no part of me like me being me looking at the topic going like all right you know, I don't know. Like, I don't, there's no part of me, like me being, me looking at the topic going like, all right, you know, it doesn't make me want to defend anybody. Like, who's actually who has a voice going, ah, it's not that big of a deal. You know what I mean? Unless you're just doing the ultimate zag to get people to notice you.

But I think your point, the general point of we probably treat each other worse than ever before is probably the best thing that was said. Here's the thing. So, guy throws a water bottle. He shouldn't have. He's a dick. Guy dumps popcorn on Westbrook. Now you can put

those clips together and be like, fan behavior is out of control. I guarantee fan behavior is a million times worse on social media. A million times worse. And nobody seems to care about that. And everybody talks about, oh yeah, social media, it's so toxic. Guess what?

Everybody's going to social media every day. Like to me, social media has become the new smoking. It's like fucking cigarettes in the 50s and 60s when they kind of had an idea that maybe cigarette smoking was bad, but everybody still did it. And they still had the commercials and we all looked the other way. The social media stuff is so toxic and everybody knows it's toxic, but people are still on there doing it. Nobody cares about that. But now we have plastic bottle guy, popcorn guy, and- Spitting on Trey guy.

Spitting on Trey guy. And then we have the shitheads in Utah. And now that gets to be this whole fan behavior. We've got to do better. We've got to do better. If we're going to do the, we've got to do better card. Let's try to do better all over the place. Let's try to behave better in all aspects because we're not going to solve it by just, just calling out a couple of fans. People are going to act like assholes. It's going to keep happening. We can say what we want, but people act like assholes because they act like assholes 24 seven to each other. People don't treat each other correctly. And it's annoying. Yeah. Like I can be madder about it if you want me to be

madder about it, you know, but I think it's an unsolvable thing. That's why when I see debates about it and this and that, and then it just turns into everybody being like, no, I'm more mad than you are. Well, you think you're mad. Wait until you see how mad I am. And unfortunately, there's a lot of us out there. There's a lot of people and people are going to do dumb shit. So I don't think it's ever going to go away unless you just have no fans.

I had to on my Instagram a couple of days because I had Adam Duritz on from Counting Crows. And my daughter, it's her favorite band. She was all excited about that he was on. So she played this song that she loves from them on the piano. Which was incredible, by the way. I didn't know that about her. That was insane.

So I put it on my Instagram stories. And then Adam Durrett saw it. And he's like, hey, that was awesome. And he shouted it out to his people. But on the Instagram stories, they disappear. So I put it as a post so people could see it because he had recommended it. And I had to put in the post, I was like, hey, be nice in the comments. My daughter's only 16. Think how sad that is that I had to put that in an Instagram post. Please don't rag on my daughter. She's a 16-year-old kid.

I felt obligated to put that in. That brings me back to my point. People, I just think, are unnecessarily shitty all over the place. So when I see the water bottle guy, were you shocked that somebody threw a water bottle at Kyrie? Of course there was going to be one asshole out of 20,000. It's fucking depressing. And I just

wish people treated each other better. That's it. That's my rant. Anything else we want to hit? I got Adrian Griffin coming on Tuesday's pod. You had Mahorn on your pod and he

claimed that he wasn't malicious as a player and that he was still good with a couple of the Celtics. He used to step on McHale's broken foot. Do you think we forgot this, Ricky Mahorn? He was like, I was never dirty. with a couple of the Celtics. He used to step on McHale's broken foot. Just for the listeners Do you think we forgot this, Ricky Mahorn? Yeah, I got...

He was like, I was never dirty. I got a text from Bill hours after that posted. And he's like, Hey, Mahorn. And I was like, Yeah, I know.

I should have pressed. But we all know how those guys are. Who has ever said like, Yeah, I was pretty dirty. Like, no one ever does it. So... McHale had a cracked foot and

mahorn would step on it during the playoff game he's like you know i was never malicious what and the best is like he was like no all those guys like me and you're like mikhail hates him what are you talking about bird hated lambir so much that he didn't have time to him on the all star buses yeah he definitely like that was where i kind of pushed back on that one but then it's like he hated lamb beer so much i don't think bird had room for mahorn hate i'd always like mahorn i i know you probably think i'm nuts but for whatever reason i always like mahorn a little bit i i kind of liked him too i actually really liked that barkley mahorn hawkins dawkins team i I loved it. With Gmo. That was a really good team.

They just had the misfortune of playing during like this incredibly stacked league where you had like the Bulls coming on you, the Pistons in their prime. You had the Lakers and the Suns and the Blazers. But I think in another era, that Sixers team. Nah, they were all right. They were all right.

I mean, Barkley was nuts. They had an awesome player though. Yeah, but they were all right. They were all right. I mean, Barkley was nuts. But they had an awesome player, though. Yeah, but they were still like a good supporting cast. Competitive in the playoffs, too. Like, that used to be kind of my rule. Like, if you're one of those

great players, like, you at least win in the first round. Like, no matter what, you get yourself a first-round series. Now the league is so deep, I don't know that that rule applies anymore.

But I think for me, there was, you know, being a skinny rail of a kid getting pushed around playing sports. I would always kind of like guys like Mahorn. Cause I was like, that must be awesome. It must be awesome to actually have guys afraid of you. That was my first terrible gambling loss in basketball was Sixers Bulls. I think I was a sophomore in college. Oh, you, what'd you bet the Sixers for the series? It was like game three or game four, one of those.

No, I bet the Sixers. Oh, you bet it for the game. I was like, they've got this figured out. No, I think it was actually the other way. I think it was game three, and I was like, Bulls got it, they're going to sweep. And then I think they won. I think the Sixers won game three

at home against the Bulls. and then I think they won I think the Sixers won game three in at home against the Bulls and I bet on Michael Jordan I lost and then it really hurt my feelings and that was when I should have known don't bet on basketball but I still do it 30 years later yeah but at least

at least for you you can argue there's been some benefit to you so if we go through this because I like to pull this up and dip in there. 1990? I was a sophomore. Yeah, 91. Bulls, Sixers? 91, maybe? No, 90 and 91.

91. Oh, that's right. Yeah, it was game three. Game three. Game three, and they won, and then they lost in five. Yeah. I had the Bulls. It was like Bulls minus three. It was my first and they won and they lost in five. Yeah. I had the, I had the bulls. It was like bulls minus three.

It was my first devastating basketball loss. Yeah. Cause that was, that was when Charles, like he went on this run. Yeah. Where they got Milwaukee. Uh,

no, they lost in Milwaukee, but then, oh shoot. That's right. They got swept by the Knicks. But then like later on, cause I looked through it.

I thought like, cause everybody always gave him a horn. They'd say like my horn ruined Barkley. Right. They got swept by the Knicks. But then like later on, because I looked through it, I thought like, because everybody always gave him a horn. They'd say like my horn ruined Barkley, right? Because they went out all the time. And if you look at some of the other stats, like you could argue it's two of Barkley's best years other than winning all those games

with Phoenix and winning the MVP. But there's not like some thing where all of a sudden Barkley fell off and wasn't going to get as many rebounds because he was tired or something. But those were those years where, because I hadn't moved yet. I remember watching those series.

My father's like, you're way too hopeful about this Philadelphia team. The East was good. The Knicks were good around that stretch. He would win. Yeah, back then after that. Yeah, because he beat Cleveland five. He swept Milwaukee.

Cleveland was good. And then he was in Phoenix. 93, 92, 93. You know, it was pre-expansion. No one cares. I'm just reciting game logs now. The league back then in that 89, 90 range, I think they only had like 23, 24 teams

because they had not all the expansion yet. And it's a little similar to now where even though there's 30 teams, there's just more talent. So it goes back to our point before where it's like you can have Tatum and Jalen Brown in the same team and that you're 500.

You could have Kawhi and Paul George in the same team and you might not even be guaranteed to make round three. The late 80s were like that. That's why I love that era. Yeah, because Mahorn was going over it and he was an expansion draft pick, but then he got traded after he was taken. And then he was like the same GM.

He said a so-called GM. He's like, he traded me twice in like three years. Have you read, there's a book called The Franchise that I think is one of like the best six basketball books ever. It's about Jack McCluskey and the, uh, the piss putting together those Pistons teams. And, um, and basically about the, the title that they win, but then having to make the expansion pick. Because they had to protect eight guys, but they had nine guys to protect. And Mahorn was the logical one to,

it was either Mahorn or James Edwards to let go. But it's a really good book about putting together a basketball team. And basically McCluskey's trying to build a basketball team around a six foot one guy, Isaiah. And it's the only time a team's ever done it. Where it's like, we have a 6'1 guard

who's our best player. How do we build a championship team around this? And it's the only time it's ever happened. But it's a really good book. I mean, that team is stacked, really, if you think about it. Because not only you have Vinny Johnson, you got Dumars, and then you get the Adrian Dantley stretch, and then flip him from Mark Aguirre.

Mark Aguirre was, like, when he's your fourth option, that's ridiculous. And Edwards could hit shots, and they had enough bigs. Rodman, Dumars. You know, Rodman, Lambeer. And when you look at it, because Mahorn, I think, got there a little bit later because he was there at the Lakers finals. And then when they lost, and then the sweep he played and then he was left unprotected I believe he was left unprotected for the second season yeah he was there for the first title right yeah they they uh that team was loaded they made really smart loaded think about

those guys we just ran through that's your eight or nine but the thing is if you had if you had six more teams you know if you have a 30 team leagueam league instead of 23, 24, whatever it is, you don't have Rodman. You have seven of those guys instead of nine. Or maybe you don't have one of those guards. Maybe Dumars is making more money somewhere else as the number one option. But when you think about, well, I don't know.

I guess the point is like, even though I'm sure, you know, your obsession with the Celtics, you probably hated that Detroit thing, but it was, I did. It was scary.

You were, you hated it because you were scared of them. Although there is this weird persecution complex that that group has. That's completely unjustified where they're like, oh, well, everybody hates us because we beat the Celtics and then we beat the Lakers and then we beat the bulls where they're like, oh, well, everybody hates us because we beat the Celtics and then we beat the Lakers and then we beat the Bulls.

It's like, no, it's a 20 year stretch. Chicago won six, LA won five, Boston won three, and you guys won two. And it was in back to back years. Like, that's it. So like the Lakers Celtics 80s thing, you're not going to trump and then congrats on your two titles. But Jordan got six and eight. And so if there's a fourth place team to be brought up over those two decades, it's you guys. And there's no debate about you jumping any of those three teams in front of you.

And when you watch that bad boys thing, every one of those guys is like, oh, well, you know, we never get mentioned with them. It's like, no, you guys get mentioned, but you're not going to be mentioned ahead of them in the pecking order. That's why we did the documentary. Because they were like the lost... To me, I remember comparing them to Larry Holmes. Where they're this great champ, but they just weren't as cool as the other champs. They weren't as

cool as Ali and Tyson. Larry Holmes just came between Ali and Tyson. And he wasn't as cool. Yeah, but at least the Pistons took somebody out. Holmes fights Ali and he shouldn't be fighting him. True. The least the Pistons like took somebody out. Holmes fights Ali and he shouldn't even be fighting him. True. The Pistons came between Celtics-Lakers

and then the Bulls. And they were kind of the stopgap team. And they had, you know, I told the story, but I watched the 30-30 with Isaiah. He hadn't seen it. He was like, cried throughout it because he felt like

they just never got in their due. It was really emotional for all those guys. They won two titles. Everybody kind of shit on them. And just think he wanted to kick your ass years prior to that. He did. Then we were hugging by 2013. How did that happen? Can we go from the timeline of Isaiah actually admitting in an interview that the one guy, he said, if I ever see Bill Simmons, it's going to be a problem. And then it worked out. Give me that story. So it was 2006. I did the atrocious GM. I used to make fun of how bad of a GM he was. I did the atrocious GM summit

and he was really mad about it. And then he did some interview and somebody asked him about the criticism. He's like, you know, it rolls off me. But, you know, if I ever saw Bill Simmons crossing the street, I would kick his ass or something like that. And I kept hearing like he was so mad

that I kept going after him. And then I wrote about this in my book. I was in Vegas and Isaiah was there and Gus Johnson was there and Gus Johnson loved me. And he's like, I got introduced to Isaiah. And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. He kind of hates my guts. And he's like, I've got this.

And he went to go bring Isaiah and And then he came back, somber Gus Johnson. And he was just like, I talked to Isaiah and he arranged this powwow and we kind of hashed it out. So that moment you had the powwow or was it? We had that moment at the Wynn topless pool in Vegas. We were playing blackjack and there was like a topless pool. And we were sitting by a topless pool and Isaiah Thomas and I hashed it out. Were you guys topless? We were not topless. Well, the other thing. What happened though?

Like, tell me the very beginning of it. Because there has to be a little anxiety of those butterflies of like, where is this going to go in the first 30 seconds? No, because first of all, I was in Vegas. We're at a pool. There's a million people around and I had a couple of drinks with me. So I was like, all right, cool. Let's talk.

Like I was kind of fired up to talk to him. And I was like, all right, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? We're getting a fistfight at a tapas pool? Like it's not happening. But you know what's interesting? When they were trying to talk me to do Countdown, talk me into doing Countdown,

they wanted it to be me, Wilbon and Magic with no host with the same no host thing and I was just like that's too weird like I've never done tv before Isaiah and Magic had this famous up and down history and like I don't know if I would do that. It just seems like such a high degree of difficulty for that plane to land. Whereas they and Magic, they're bringing all this baggage to it between them. And I've never done TV before. And we have two players and me and Wilbon.

It's like, how is that going to be a good show? And they ended up not mattering because they were going to get Stan Van Gundy. And then Stern squashed that. Yeah, Stern wouldn't let him do it, right? Stern squashed it. It was done. Stan and I had talked on the phone.

We were like, can't wait to work together. And Stern squashed it. And then like with a week to go, Jalen got it. And Jalen's been there ever. Jalen's the only one who lasted. True story.

Yeah, I'd heard the Stern Van Gundy thing everybody at ESPN kind of knew that one at least on the NBA side I think they agreed to a deal with them like they just

they didn't paper it but they agreed to terms like Stan Van Gundy was coming to ESPN to do countdown and work for this so they got the Pistons gig

so um all right you got two more podcasts this week You got two more podcasts this week. I have two more podcasts this week. We have new rewatchables coming Monday night. I'll just tell you what it was. Memento.

You like that movie? Or did you not do it? We actually, we have a fun gimmick for it that you could probably guess. I loved it. I love that movie. I love any movie that tries to do something different. And then it's Nolan.

So it's a home run. I'd watch Nolan do a fucking Tide Pods ad and be like, yep, brilliant. So I watched Dunkirk the other night because I finished the Splendid and the Vile. Churchill. You know, just Great Britain getting bombed out. And well, look, I mean, it's just, it's, it's just, I mean, you can know certain things Great Britain getting bombed out. Well, look, I mean, it's just... I mean, you can know certain things about history, but if you're my age and you go back

and you read about a specific timeline, there's going to be new stuff that you're learning all the time. And I watched Dunkirk again because I had read the Dunkirk chapter in that book. And it's a memento in just because they tried something really challenging and made it cool. Russillo, good seeing you. I'll see you Sunday. By next Sunday, we'll know answers to, was Chris Paul redeemed?

Did anyone win the Denver Portland series? Did it go to a game eight? Did the Knicks rally back? Did Luca, what happened? There's going to be a lot of answers. This podcast had more questions than answers. The Knicks won't have answers. I'll see you in a week.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Don't forget, part one was already up. If you missed that for some reason, I'm coming back here on this feed on Tuesday. You can listen to Rousseau's podcast. He's got two more coming this week as well. New Rewatchable's coming on Monday night, and I will see you on this feed on Tuesday.

See you then. I don't wanna see them When we start to say I don't have feelings with him On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings with him