The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 2: Luka Shines and Phoenix Collapses (and Then Some) With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

In Part 2 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Suns’ historic Game 7 collapse to the Mavericks in the Western Conference semifinals, whether or not Phoenix missed their title window, how the loss may affect the Suns' roster for 2023, and more (0:50), before talking about Luka Doncic's dominance on offense and defensive effort, a "Western Conference Finals Draft," the NBA's dream Finals matchup, James Harden’s decline during the 76ers' Round 2 exit, and more (31:50). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find part one of the podcast with me and Rosillo from earlier today. We talked about the Celtics Bucks and a couple other things, and then we were super excited to do part two, Mavs Suns Game 7. Not as

excited anymore, although it will be a fascinating pod. It's all next, first, our friends from Pearl Jam. Alright, we are taping this. It is 718 Pacific Time, Sunday night. Priscilla, you take the floor. Ah, well, that wasn't fun for me. You know, it wasn't a great start.

Then they ran that first play for him. He got free, up fake, right elbow, in and out. And I was like, okay. And then they missed every shot. And it was weird because there was a moment there where I was like, it's only 17-point lead. That felt good. I was like, it's only like 17?

Okay. Maybe. No. Maybe. No, there's no, maybe. And that's one of the worst losses I've ever seen for a team with expectations. I mean, that's not hyperbole like that. I can't believe they lost and they lost. They were down 40.

What was the biggest lead? 41. I thought they were down more than 40. They had 10 points in the second half. They had 10 points in the second half. Booker and Paul were... They had 10 points in the second half. Oh, Booker and Paul. No, no, no. The Suns scored

10 points in the second half. They had 17 in the first half, and that seemed really low. And then they topped out at 10. Booker and Paul were, I think, 0 for 10 in the first half. Look, they're on a list now that you don't want to be on. There's a couple of lists you don't want to be on.

You don't want to be on the superstar who never won the title list. Barkley talks about that all the time. I remember he came on my podcast once in 2011. He was like, I'm on a list. I don't want to be on this list. The list that gets brought up every time the new guy enters. And then they mentioned all the other guys the 2022 Suns are on whatever

short list you have for most shocking disappointing exits we've had by a really good team in the playoffs and just if you go since the merger 22 Suns I think the 16 Warriors have to be on there even though they went 73-9 blowing the 3-1 lead in the finals

2011 Heat, 07 Mavs, 94 Sonics, 81 Lakers defending the title by losing a best two out of three of the Rockets, and then the 77 Sixers blowing a 2-0 to the Blazers and just completely falling apart and then almost coming back but not really. That's the company they're in. And I think anytime going forward, people mention situations like this, this will be one of the first teams they mention. And that's just how this played out.

Yeah. There's no pushback. I can't do it anymore. I mean, and that's kind of where I'm going. I can't believe that Dallas is better than them. What was that? I mean, they were dead. where I'm going. I can't believe that Dallas is better than them. But what was that?

I mean, they were dead. The weirdest thing was how little fight they had. How dead the crowd was because I think the crowd sensed it immediately. And Dallas was playing really well offensively and had the best guy in the game. And then Phoenix looked like they had never

played basketball before. This was the most efficient, best oiled machine we had all season. I thought they were a lock to make the finals unless somebody got hurt. As far as we know, nobody got hurt. They just like ran out of gas. Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen with the Paul thing because they seem to be hinting at it. He just didn't look the same, but I

can't really sit here and make it an excuse. I don't know. Why would Booker be terrible? They were basically just doubling him and throwing people at him every chance they got just to take him out and hope anyone else could beat them and nobody could beat them. But Booker was also

bad. You think about what Tatum did the last two weeks. Booker and Tatum were kind of swimming in the same pool. I know Tatum's a better player, but I voted Booker fourth for MVP. We had to hear all the monologues from all the Suns fans and all the smart basketball people. We were like, whoa, people are sleeping on how good Devin Booker is. This was the perfect game for him to show us how good he was. He went the opposite way. I've always argued about Paul, and I've said he's

the ultimate winner that hasn't won. When I watched those Pelican series, or that Pelican series, and you're like, this guy is absolutely taking these games over. You know what I mean? You felt like he he was pacing himself he's got the perfect game in there beginning of the dallas series i mean this isn't that long ago all right the beginning of this series you're like this guy there is the list of 10 people that are more important in the nba like he may not be a top 10 player anymore but when he's right and he's taken over the game like it's

just so obvious and it's so much fun. You and I did these segments. Um, I think I did my own. I think I did one with you. We were like, do people realize how, like the profile, how special this profile,

this Phoenix team looks like, you know, clutch. They had, they had it all, man. They had it all. And you're like,

wait, what? John Schumann, our friend who works for a nba.com. He said the sons were the 24th team in the 26 years for which we have PVP data to rank in the top five in both offensive and defensive efficiency. And they were better than that

because in any close game, it seems like they could come through. And yet in this game, there's a couple moments, it was like 30 to 22, or not 30 to 22. You're right, though. I know exactly what you're saying. The Mavs were up by like 10.

Yeah. And it seemed like they had a chance to break it open. I kept waiting for Chris to be like, oh, I'm going to step in earlier than I usually do because this is getting a little out of hand. Let me take control of this. And he just didn't. And it was like, is he hurt? Is he asleep? What's going on? I'm going to step in earlier than I usually do because this is getting a little out of hand. Let me take control of this. And he just did it.

And it was like, is he hurt? Is he asleep? What's going on? The whole Suns team seemed to sleep. Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's like 31-22 a couple minutes into the second quarter. You're like, okay, everybody makes the run. They're going to make a run. And then the run never happens.

And then you can start asking all sorts of stuff like well if chris is hurt how do you build your team knowing that like this is a problem right it'd be back to back years where he couldn't hold up and that's why i thought the sneaky him breaking his hand was good for him because it gave him a month off. And they didn't lose their seat or anything like that, so they'd be fine. And then the Aiton part of it, which is weird. And, you know, whatever, Booker's still going to be great. But, yeah, it's one of those games where you're like,

this sticks on you forever. This is written in pen. It's not written in pencil. And you hope it pisses you off if you're the core of Phoenix going forward. It's over. It's over. This is it.

That's it. The window's closed. Here's why. That loss is so bad, you can't come back from it. You can't. And they have no move. The only move they have is to trade Aiton, which we'll talk about much later in the podcast. But the history of this is like, unless you have a peak guy in his prime,

like the 2011 Heat, where they figured it out and they were able to come back from that because they had LeBron James, who was in year eight or year nine at that point. And they had Wade, they had Bosh, and they were able to figure it out. The Suns don't have people like that.

Booker isn't on the short list. He's a really good player. He's an all-star. He's a franchise guy, but he's not on that short list. I just feel like the 81 Lakers, they had won the year before. Total hiccup. Magic was hurt half the year. Best of three. You could talk, all right, we got it, guy. And then you come back and you win the next year. The problem with Phoenix is the league is going to be really, really good next year. You could say there's 10 teams that have a chance to make the finals next year. If you're adding Denver and you're adding the Clippers and Brooklyn, assuming they're going to be some version of a good Brooklyn team on top of all the good teams we've had this year.

Phoenix is going to be one of the 10. They're not going to be... I don't know. The West is going to be way better. I just feel like their window was last year and this year. We were saying that during the season. They came really close to winning the title last year. Then this year, the West was set up for them. We talked in

part one. Neither of us even really liked this Golden State team that much. It's just a brutal loss. That 31-22 you mentioned. So, Torrey Craig scores. It's 29-22. 9-36 left

in the second quarter. And at this point, I was thinking, oh, they're fine. They're going to get back into this. They're home. Here we go. Brunson hit one. Torrey Craig gets blocked. Dean Witte hits a three.

34-22. Suns timeout. Booker comes in the game. Turnover. Dallas misses a three. Phoenix misses a three. Dallas misses a two. Phoenix misses a three. Dallas misses a two. Dallas misses another two.

It's 34-22 for three minutes. And then all of a sudden, Dinwiddie and Luka take over. And within a second, it's 46-25. When it hit 20, that's when I was like, oh, they're not going to come back. Not the way this Dallas team like, Oh, they're not going to come back.

Not the way this Dallas team shoots threes. They're not going to catch up. Did you feel like they were going to catch up when they were down 20? Cause I did not. No, no. And I always think everybody's going to make a run. I always think it's going to,

cause it's usually, that's how it works. You know, you're up 18. It's like, Oh, look at this. Now we're only up four and they've made their run. That's usually the way the game works.

But this was so humiliating. Um, and I also think, you know, your point about them defending Booker, I think they kind of knew Paul was just a non-factor. So it's like so now we don't have to play him the same way. They extended the pressure out, though. They're right into those guys. And then

Luka is kind of in that Giannis mode of you just feel helpless. You feel helpless at times. There's nothing you can do. And Jalen's development's great. Dinwiddie coming in and hitting every shot was perfect for him. Yeah, that was the game seven wild card that honestly the Bucs didn't have in the first game.

You get that random Dinwiddie off the bench, 25 minutes, 11 for 15, five threes, 30 points, and he's plus 29 when he's in the game. That's, you know, and we'll talk. I want to talk Dallas next segment because I just want to finish this Phoenix thing. I don't think Aiton's on the team next year. Yeah, you've been on this for over a year.

This is a wrap. I would put your money on their trading Aiton. I don't think they will pay him. I don't think Sarver is going to go deep into luxury tax with a team that just fell on its face with what he's seen from Chris Paul. He has no history of doing it. And I think there's probably trades for him.

The question for me is, with the way the West is evolving, just as a conference, with all of these kind of small ball you have to switch on everything you have to be able to play smaller lineups to survive and these centers are just getting played off the court over and over again

like does Aiton even make sense in the way the West is going because there's a case where you could say he might not well you know in the moment I always kind of argue that we're terrible at this stuff because last year when they were up to oh we're talking about how great ayton was and bridges and all this stuff right like we were having these real conversations about how special how many top

15 players they had and all these kinds of things now here we are a year later going you can't bring them back although i do agree with i'm saying you can't bring them back at 30 million a year whatever it is i don't i don't think that's a smart financial move if you're also going to pay these other three guys big money yeah i don't know i don't know if it's um that sarver kind of did the opposite of what other guys would do and be like well look i don't have to pay him anymore and then if he wants to sign an offer sheet somewhere else he can sign an offer sheet and do the four years and then we can just match it. I don't know. I don't know if the teams that have cap space, you know,

there's not that many and they don't seem like they'd be the kind of places that you'd be super fired up to go play. Well, I think there was a lot of smoke with the Pacers in the eight and before the deadline. I do think that was being discussed and, you know, I still think that's possibly in play

for him. So I'd watch out for them. You know, if they have Turner, there's moves you could make where you could make that a little more financially palatable. Turner's been in trade rumors for four or five years. McCollum finally got traded.

I was trying to think of other terrible, terrible, terrible Game 7 losses or end of the series losses. Don't forget about the Clippers against the Nuggets in the bubble. Remember that Game 7 was really bad. Those last two Rockets games in 18 after Chris Paul got hurt, those weren't awesome. The 95 Magic. Turning the awesome. The 95 Magic.

Turning the knife. The 95 Magic when Anderson missed the free throws and they just slowly fell apart as that series went along. Those games are actually kind of fun, but to just get swept by that Rockets team was pretty bad.

I was trying to think if there was a Celtics one like that. The only one I could think of was the 09 when they lost at was a Celtics one like that. The only one I could think of was the 0-9 when they lost at home to the Magic by like 20 in Game 7. Remember that? When KG was hurt that year, they just came out

and they sucked. Yeah. But that team wasn't going to win the title. I think what really differentiates this is this was a team we all thought was the finals team. Pretty convincingly, this was not just the favorite, but I think the prohibitive favorite. I got to know more.

I got to know more. I want there to be a book done on the 48 hours leading up to this game. What happened? Or the last week? What happened since game two? What happened to this team? Right. I think, kid, we brought this up before this evening,

you get started, we're doing the totals and I'm like, they put together a really good staff there. Yeah. And you know, I'm like, okay, they got there too.

You know, Phoenix goes home, they're better. And then game six was a little alarming. Cause I was like, if you're a really good team, you know, you probably probably find a way.

Like if you're a team that's supposed to win an NBA championship, maybe you find a way in there, but certainly coming home. And I don't get it. I mean, I know the shooting variant stuff and whatever, but there has to be a discussion. Yeah, there has to be a discussion. What did you guys feel like coming out of the tunnel? Did somebody sleep with somebody's wife here?

What are you talking about? I was actually, I was on a text thread wondering, by the way, please don't aggregate this, fucking psycho aggregators. This is just a conspiracy theory just to describe how weird this game was. I was thinking, is there Sarver stuff coming out? Is that investigation coming out in a week

and they found out highlights of it and it sent the team in a tailspin? Because this team is in a tailspin. I don't understand it. They just went 64-18 and 6-2. They were 70-20 heading into Game 3 of this series

and then lost 4 of the next 5 and lost Game 7, which we'll say they lost by 33. But this game, they were down 40 plus with like a minute left. It is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in the history of the league. At least since I've been a fan.

You know... Actually, you want to take a break and then we'll keep going? No. Well, yeah, I actually would like to not do any of it, but... Well, let's take a quick break. Come back.

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I'm on a text thread with Big Cat Chris Long, and they were monitoring me the entire day. Like, hey, how you feeling? How you feeling? And I was like, yeah, yeah we're ready we're ready to go over here and then you know then they started texting while the game they're like man this isn't good at all this is bad and I was like all right I don't want to

text about this with anybody right now it was like we're so notifications have been silenced that's right there's a Chris Paul signed your snaps are now delivered so uh long when they're down 40 chris goes booker's gotta make that just to just to just to mess with me um but he was like you was trying to make sure that Booker was also going to be criticized. No, it just sucks. It sucks because, look, I've made all these anti-Harden arguments over the years.

My anti-Westbrook position is well-established. I felt like I was right. And yet then there appears, if you were going to zag with me, you go, how can you have such a blind spot for the guy you love while you don't like these other guys? And at the very least, I was like, because I at least know that he is wired differently and will play in such a way that he cares. Watching Harden in an elimination game, let everybody run past him. Watching Westbrook at times just be oblivious to the other nine people that are out there.

Chris just doesn't play with that. But if you wanted to, if you wanted to be mean to me, you can say, look, your guy has an awful playoff resume and he just did it again in game seven. I'm just going to go through it really fast for the listeners.

Okay. 2008, they're up 3-2 against the Spurs. They lose the last two, including game seven. 2012, they blow game six against Memphis. Then they win in seven, get swept the next round. 2013, up

2-0, lose the next four to Memphis. 2014, beat the Warriors in a game seven, lose an OKC to six. And that's the worst one of all these for Chris because he's just had some really bad moments in that series. 2015, win a game seven against the Spurs where Chris makes the game-winning shot.

Up 3-2 against Houston, that's the famous Josh Smith-Corey Brewer disaster collapse, and they lose in seven. 2016 gets hurt in the Portland series. 2017 loses game seven at home to Utah, a team that does not have a lot of great playoff moments, at least recently. 2018 gets injured during the Golden State series.

They blow a 3-2 lead, losing Game 7. 2019, KD's out, and they lose Game 5 and Game 6 to the Warriors. 2020, when he's on OKC, they lose Game 7 to Houston, to James Harden. He's somehow involved on the other side of James Harden, like one of his greatest playoff moments. 2021 blows a 2-0 lead in the finals.

2022 blows a 2-0 lead, loses game seven by 33 at home to Dallas. That's the Chris Paul playoff resume. Removing all the nuance. It's not awesome. I don't have anything else to say. I still think he's one of the best 30 players ever. Thanks. Thanks for that. He doesn't have

I still have Isaiah. Thanks for that. He doesn't have... I still have Isaiah. I still value Isaiah in a different way. And I know the stats, Chris Paul's stats crush Isaiah, but I just feel like this is why I loved Isaiah. We talked about this when we did the Book of Basketball pod. I just thought there were certain games. I just don't think Isaiah... Oh, maybe. I don't know. Because

near the end of the Pistons, he had some not-so-great playoff losses. So maybe he's a bad example. But at least in his peak, those four years there, Isaiah was like... He just felt like you'd have to drive over his dead body to beat his team. And I don't know what I witnessed

tonight. So let's talk about Booker really fast because I don't know what I witnessed tonight. And so let's talk about Booker really fast because I don't want to pile on Chris. Chris, I think it's going to come out that Chris was hurt in some way. I can't explain the Booker thing. Booker, 23 in game one, they win. 30 in game two, they win. Six for 13, 18 points in game three, they lose.

35 in game four, they lose. 28 in game 3 they lose 35 in game 4 they lose 28 in game 5 they win and then last two games he's 6 for 17 in game 6 and 3 for 14 in game 7 19 points, 11 points not awesome yeah well I mean at this point with booker like i think it was an

incredible year right i voted i remember top five mvp i had him first team all nba right yeah with luca but i had him fourth for mvp you know this this turn this will turn into one of those deals where it's like now next year you know it's it's all kind of like applying the rules to how you're allowed to talk about these guys right because next year like what's phoenix gonna be this is what i don't get you know i'm saying like what what are they gonna no one's gonna care about any of it right paul's gonna be older he's gonna get hurt again um and book, as good as he is, I don't know. Does this mean you reclassify him? You know what I mean?

I don't want to do that to these guys every time they lose a playoff series. Well, I think some of his contemporaries have just ascended higher than him. I think it's at least the one fair thing we can say. That he's a little closer to that Mitchell Towns class of 22 to 25 than he is to the Tatum and all those guys' class. But I think heading into these playoffs, I felt him and Tatum, you're looking at those two guys as two of the best young superstars in the league. But now after this, I don't know what to think. Next year, they're on the cap for $129 million next year.

That does not include any money for DeAndre. Devin Booker, 33.8. Chris Paul, 28.4. Bridges is 21. Crowder's 10.1. Shamit's 9.5. Ouch. Sarich is 9.2.

Campaign's 6 million. I thought they made a mistake going away from campaign, by the way. What? Are you nuts? I just think Shamit as a point guard is insane. I just would never do that. I would play my third string point guard over Shaman. Do you think the lesson of this series,

they went to holiday a little too late? Yeah. I should have lived with that. Why not? I just, Shaman as a point guard is just nuts. I'm not telling you it's great. I'm not even sure he's good. I'm not telling you it's great.

But I'm just saying, the campaign stuff for me drives me crazy. It's like, alright, it's campaign time. Then he just comes in. They could have used somebody with a rational confidence in today's game. I'll tell you that. I don't really know what the moves are.

I guess they could package Crowder and Sarich and maybe take some bigger contract back if they wanted to. But Sarver has no history of doing that. I wonder if they would trade Paul. Do you think he would go for that? What if he was like, yeah, this isn't... I'm not saying he wants to do anything. I just wonder if they'd be like, hey, this isn't, you know, I'm not saying he,

you know, wants to do anything. I just wonder if they'd be like, Hey, do you want to go somewhere else now? All right, let's flip this around. What would be your dream scenario for Chris Paul's next destination?

Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Interesting. That was where he supposedly was trying to, to get angled to. But now it doesn't matter because they have Drew. So it's not going to happen. I would not want to see him join the Lakers in that shit show.

You don't think there's... I can't rule this out. I don't think this will happen, but I'm just... Given Sarver's history, I cannot rule it out. You don't think there's a chance they would trade Chris, trade Aiton, and do a reboot? Just be like, we missed our window?

Look, I think Sarver's possibly... I think it has to be in play with him, right? Yeah, I think he would be willing to do anything. And this is... I'm just double checking the contract here for Paul so he goes to 28.4

and 30.8 right and then he's that fourth year is non-guaranteed I just wonder, look I'm just you know, this is as disappointing a loss as we have seen from any team in a really long time so probably not the best time to start plan team

building but it is uh you know here we are yeah but if you're going to compare this i think a good comparison to this is the 2007 maps even though 2007 dirk was better than anyone on this sun's team but same kind of thing where you knew after the loss that it was going to take not just a year. It was going to be a different looking team before they recovered from it. Nobody left that 2007 playoffs and said, watch out for those guys next year. It was more like, whoa, what's going to happen to these guys? That's how I feel about the Suns loss. This is a what's going to happen to these guys kind of loss. I don't think it's an overreaction unless it comes out that Chris was playing

with a broken hip or some hockey injury. Or he had, I don't know, what were even the possible injuries? It looked like he was favoring his leg a couple times, but I just don't know. He's fucking old. He's 37. I thought it was a hand thing again. Maybe. Who knows?

The way he stayed down in game six, but I don't know. I don't know. He didn't do a ton of publicity for the surgery last year when he had surgery, so I don't know that he's in a hurry. He's not usually in a hurry to tell you that he's hurt, but the way the announcers were kicking it around, I don't know. Would you say, hey, all right, well, Chris got hurt again.

Let's just run it back. I don't know. Would you say, hey, all right, well, Chris got hurt again. Let's just run it back? I do think there were owners that if they had this profile of a team, they would just say, hey, let's just run it back. We're probably still going to win a bunch of games and we have a chance and who knows? Maybe the ball bounces our way this time. You can't run it

back. I think you have to figure out the Crowder Sarich campaign that's $25 million. Can you go get one more vet to put with these guys that you can trust as one of your five guys? Can you prove the Crowder

spot? Or you go the other way and maybe you start rebooting. I don't know who you could get to force a trade. And I don't think they'd really have unless they wanted to do something with Aiton. But yeah, would they try to run it back without Aiton

and add a wing that they think is like a huge upgrade over what they have? I mean, we haven't even talked about Bridges once because Bridges is also somebody who, you know, he can have 420 and you're not surprised. And it's rarely going to happen on his own. And so that's a lot of money into another wing that you're like, can you give us a little bit

more scoring? And he'll have nights where he's a complete non-factor. I mean, look, we're 30 minutes into this. I forgot about him. Lucas seemed like he was not exactly shivering when Bridges switched on.

Now I'm bummed out. You're so bummed out, now I'm bummed out. I just had the Celtics win like three hours ago. Now I feel like it was... Although, I should be more bummed out because I lost about 17 future bets on the Suns. What else did you have? Oh my God. I made two big Celtics,s and Bucs Suns finals bets in March because I was

convinced those were the only three teams that could make the finals. I had big bets for round two, Celtics Suns, Celtics Suns Warriors. I easily could have hedged heading into game seven, but it's like, look, the one thing we haven't seen yet is the Suns

taking a shit at home. They might have looked shaky on the road, but at home, they've been pretty reliable. Wasn't ready to just go against a team that was 70-20 heading into game three. But turns out I should have. I guess the Dallas thing, it's like there's easily a world

where they just miss almost all those threes. I guess there's a Luca piece to this that we should talk about. We haven't talked about Dallas enough. What are we, 30 minutes in? We haven't talked about them at all. Yeah, all right. We'll take a break.

We'll talk about Dallas. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too.

You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. Apologies to the Mavs fans for not talking about Dallas yet. It's just like, that's how insane that Phoenix loss was. I really

feel like that was a borderline historic, not even borderline. I felt like that was a historic loss. Dallas, the Luka thing. People are comparing him to the 07 LeBron, which was always the catch with, you know, if you were thinking Dallas maybe had a chance to win the

finals and the history of the truly great guys in the first couple years of their career. You think Lucas, this is, I think, year four for him. Usually by year four, the truly great guys have at least a couple big playoff moments. He hadn't had it yet.

He was absolutely incredible in this game. It was the kind of thing where you had to come out and be awesome right away on the road. And he did. He seemed almost arrogant in a good way. Nobody in the Suns could guard him.

He was laughing. He was looking... It was actually like performance art. The difference between this and the LeBron Pistons game is LeBron was like... He was like a young pup in that game. It was happening. It was like, wow, I can't believe this young guy is doing this to the Pistons.

And it was awesome. But he was hitting a lot of jumpers and threes. But it never felt like, oh my god, this guy is psychologically destroying everybody in this building. Luka was like watching fucking Gliator it was really impressive i mean he's had a lot of games like this but this moment in a game seven i i was impressed yeah it kind of felt like whenever we're talking about guys like this right like hey could luca be the best player in the nba when you were saying that i think in his second year i was like i, I don't know about that. But now, it's not an absurd question to ask about him.

And then you put together those two playoff runs where they lose to the Clippers. You look back at those numbers. The first year, you're like, did you see what this guy did in his second year? And then he's even better. Those showdowns with Kawhi a couple years ago, that stuff was just nuts, right?

So then you're kind of like, well, if he's really one of those dudes, it'd be a little unfair. It could be circumstantial. There's not an absolute for all this stuff. You're like, well, if he's really that guy, then how come he's not going further? And it kind of feels right, though. If he's in the league four years in,

he's a top five guy without question. It kind of feels right that he has... It's not a ring, but that's what that LeBron Cavs series was like for me. It was like a half a ring because that team wasn't that good. Maybe this team is just better and I haven't figured it out.

They deserve more credit, I guess I could say it that way. I don't feel like this is some awesome team and they do this to Phoenix and now they have a legitimate chance at winning the whole thing. Can you go there? Yeah. You're there.

I just think it's wide open with these four teams. I think you can make a case for all four of them. We talked about how Miami has home court in the East Finals and has history of success against the Celtics. I haven't loved what I've seen from Golden State. I think they're a team between two errors in some degree. And then this Dallas team,

I mean, Dinwiddie had 30 points tonight. Anybody in the league could have Dinwiddie in February. Bertans was one of the 12 hardest contracts to trade. Bullock was sitting there in free agency for anybody. Josh Green didn't even play. That was one of their only higher first-round picks they've had the last couple of years. Kleber, the question with him is,

can he play 30 minutes in a game without getting hurt? He managed to get through this whole series playing big minutes. Going down the line, it's like, it's pretty flimsy. But the Luka piece, I mean, Luka in this series, 32.6 points a game, 9.9 rebounds, 7 assists, 48.3 field goal percentage. What did he shoot from three?

32.8. I know. When we talk about it, how is he going to get better? It's when the threes go from 33% to 40 is going to be pretty dangerous for everybody. It feels like the big ones all go in. I'll tell you that.

And you know what's crazy? He didn't really do that much tonight. He didn't have to do that much damage. The first five minutes was what mattered with it right he gets eight points eight points the first two minutes and you're on your heels the crowd's nervous the whole thing yeah and he's sitting there just letting you know letting you have it laughing at you the whole time well what did they do after game two they talk shit to him what was the thing with paul and Booker? Was that after the game? It was after game five. I thought it was after game five when he started saying, everybody acts tough when you're up.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it was. And then they didn't lose again. So he backed it up on top of everything else. He's one of those guys that you know how many players wish they were like that? I can talk all the shit, but I can completely back it up to the level that he backs it up. There's not a lot of guys like that, man. I'm going to compliment

him yet again. I was so impressed by his defense in this game today because the Mavs were just... I would describe them as swarming. It's really hard to swarm if one of your five guys is either out of shape or going through the motions or doing the O.L.A. defense. The question with him was always,

can you survive with him defensively the first two games, the Suns hunted him, the whole thing. By this game, he was flying around. He was very active. You couldn't hunt him because he was really giving a shit on both ends. It was a two-way performance, which is one of

the things I loved about it. He had 35 and 10, but I thought his D was good. I don't know what the advanced stats were for when he got matched up. I just thought there was a spirit to him on both ends that he doesn't always have. The stakes were absolutely high. But I think the other thing that's kind of like,

because at times when I don't like it, it would remind me a little of Harden-ish. You know what I mean? That ISO stuff. Yeah. He's better than Harden, everyone else. But there's a flow to it with him that i think is a little different like i think it hardened at the peak of it it felt like you were watching somebody play basketball like you were on the team with the guy and you were

just sitting there watching it and there are times with luca where i'm like is it is it like that but i don't know man like the way they get that ball pinging around and the system around him allows you to not really have to have premier talent. I mean, Brunson's really good. I get a little sick of watching him fall down for fucking two hours. I still can't believe he got them to challenge something where he convinced himself he was hitting the face in an earlier game in the series when he wasn't. He was so convinced of it that he was like, yep, we got to challenge this one. You just faked yourself out. You know what I mean? When you start

thinking about how many guys would you want, who's the second player that you're picking ahead of any of the Warriors? Are you picking Brunson ahead of Klay? His version of K Clay? Yes. This version of Clay?

Yes. Wow. Not even close. Wiggins? Want to do a draft? Love drafts. All right. I'll give,

I'll take first pick. I'll go Luka. You go Curry. So Luka and Curry up the board. So now I'm up again. Kaminga? Yeah. You go Curry. So Luke and Curry off the board. So now I'm up again. Domingo? I'm taking Draymond.

Yeah. Even though I'm not positive he wants to shoot under any circumstances at this point of his career. But I think he does so many other good things. I think he has to be taken there. I think I'm taking Brunson. I think you have to.

This is tough I'm gonna take pool um I'll take clay wow okay come on I'm gonna I'll take Clay. Wow. Okay. Come on. I'm going to, I would have taken

Finney Smith there. So I'm taking him here. I thought about it, but I mean, he also had five, four, two games. Yes,

it does. But sometimes he just doesn't shoot. Right. That's not going to happen with Clay. But Clay will have go six for 20, which is worse. It's a hilarious way. He's not going to happen with Clay. But Clay will go six for 20, which is worse. Defensively, he's not even close anymore. Wiggins.

You're taking Wiggins here? It's kind of crazy. The guy who started for the West and the All-Star is still available. I'm not sure I want to do it. The cat. He's hopping on your lap. The cat. Give him a pet. I'll say Wiggins. Okay.

Even though he wasn't very good today, I'm going to take Cleaver. They're very impactful today. I just think when he's out there, they're really hard to play. Bullock? We're going to keep going? Nah, it kind of tails off here.

Isn't there one more warrior? Looney? He played well game six. Yeah, it tails off, but the thing is, we probably won't see Looney in this series. I don't think so. So in one respect, we probably won't see Looney in this series.

I don't think so. So in one respect, the Warriors are going to be like, cool, small ball. We invented this. Then Miami will be like, no, no, we actually invented it in 2012. You can go back and look at the tapes. In the 2008 Celtics, they're like, no, we actually invented it. Go back, game four, spread them out. KG and four guards.

But if they want to go small ball, I think that plays both in Draymond's hands, but what won't play in his hands is this Dallas coaching staff has been fucking awesome all year. They were awesome in this series. And guess who they're going to leave completely alone? Draymond Green. Completely alone.

They're going to make him do something. Who guards Luka on the Warriors? I don't know if Wiggins is big enough. No one is big enough. Porter? Bridges isn't big enough. You know, we saw what happened.

Bridges is a hell of a defensive player too. I mean, Luka's just in that. Celtics have some guys that could guard him. Yeah, they do. Porter? Can we see a little Kaminga? Kaminga was not good against Memphis. He wasn't.

He's a year away. He's in his Kobe-Utah series 1997 stage. Let's wait a year on this. It'd be great, though. Put him back in the fridge. It'd be great if they were like hey can you go out there and chase Luke around for you know 15 minutes and spell us and not

make mistakes but can I just tell you Bullock was plus 44 today plus minus continues to be the dumbest stat ever they still found a way to almost get into a fight at the end How great was that Holiday like pit pocketed

Boban with like 7 seconds left Boban thought he was in John Wick 4 He was going to do some martial arts on him Yeah I love that We're conceding this and Holiday's like I need to get my PER up I have two more Dallas things. One was the Porzingis trade.

Inadvertently and surprisingly, becoming one of the most impactful mid-season trades we've had. We always have these trade deadlines. We do the pods, do the preview pods, then the actual trade deadlines. We do the pods, do the preview pods, then the actual trade deadlines unfolding pods and trying to, oh my God, this happened and this happened and this happened. And here's a trade that might've actually swung the title and none of us would have suspected it at the time. No way. It was more like, wow, they're just quitting on Porzingis. This is just

a quit job. They're just choosing to go sideways with another guard and Bertans is a corpse. And those guys come in and say what you want about Bertans, but at least he was giving them 14, 15 minutes a game in this series. And then

Dinwiddie, who was in a coma for three weeks, but then was good the last couple of games. But just in general, I mean, is there a world... If I but then was good the last couple games but just in general I mean is there a world if I had said to you the trade deadline I think that trade just swung the title you'd have been like what no never

I mean I didn't say it at the time at the time I was like oh okay whatever Dinwiddie who nobody seemed to like playing with in Washington but he's in a perfect situation here because it's like, no, we can just go out there and do your thing and play with the backup group and you're not really getting in anyone else's way. That used to be the thing.

The worst version of Dinwiddie was you come in, you never pass, and you're on your own program. And I don't know if it's when the reins of a team is taken away from you, if that changed something with him, because maybe that was the hardest thing for him. Or maybe this is the perfect role for him. Right.

Heat checky, third guard off the bench guy. So the other part of this that I guess I just didn't really figure out, because Porzingis is still talented. Um, I think that's allowed. You can, you know,

it's okay to say that he's 26. Um, I'd heard Luca wasn't exactly crying at the news that he was being traded. And I think when you watch Dallas with Przingis, what, what I didn't realize was that just by him not being there was going to be awesome for Dallas because he still was somebody of a contract and a stature and production that you actually did have to keep playing. So it always felt like this kind

of appeasing two worlds here where it's like, Luke, it's Lucas team. Everybody knows he's the better player, but we still have to pretend we're doing normal Przingis things here. And now you don't have to do any of those things because he's not there. And I guess I didn't understand the impact. I didn't know how to value that until we saw it. And now they're not pretending he's part of the team anymore, which is what I thought one of their big problems was. Yeah, we've seen that over the years.

For some reason, it made me think of Bynum on his last Laker year, where the most fun was when it was Gasol and Odom and Kobe and just the way they moved and the speed. But then Bynum, it was like, let's bring this guy in. Bynum, low post player. But it would just kind of throw them off that last year.

Then they ended up doing the trade. But sometimes teams have these guys that just, even though they're good players, they're fine. They don't seem to fit in with the whole team. And Porzingis, I think part of it was because he was the star before Luka got there. But he just never really fit in with what I think Kidd wanted to do. Kidd, Jesus.

I mean, we could have Kidd and Ndoka as the coaches this year, right? Kidd could have been hired by anybody the last couple years, and Ndoka, rookie coach, that would be nuts. I just have to mention this again. We know all these teams passed on Luka, but Phoenix passed on him.

Yeah, two. Three. Sacramento. Oh, right. Because of the trade. And Atlanta. Phoenix passed on him yeah two I mean three Sacramento oh right because of the trade in Atlanta right remember

no I get it I know your point no no no right remember you had that thing where you're like even though the the waves are against me

right now deep down in my bones I still think this one thing but it's not as cool to say right now yeah last year when Trey was getting hot I was like oh Luca for Trey yeah deep down in my bones, I still think this one thing, but it's not as cool to say right now. Last year when Trey was getting hot, I was like, oh, Luka for Trey.

Hmm. Still sure that was the worst trade? I know. This is absolutely your story. And I was like, all right, I'll take the hits, but feeling really good about my opinions on that trade. Thanks for asking, though. That was a dumb one. It was always a dumb one when it was happening.

And you're right. In that moment, trade gets through Philly. And then it's like, how many round twos has Luka been in? It's like, all right, I still feel pretty good about my feelings. Yeah, because then you're like, because the answers of the thing that's being asked, though, that's the other part about those things. That's an exercise in some of these things that we'll have in the take world where it's like, hey, we sure that trade is that?

Yeah, it was a bad trade. Look, it's better. Look, it's not just better. He's one of the most important players in the century. I mean, honestly, how old is he? Is he 23? He's 23. He's 23.

Damn. He's 23. And the best thing about him was that because of what he did in the international play and having to play with man and being like, there were things to be expected. That's what I fell in love with. When he was playing against fucking 30-year-olds and won the MVP in the week. Right. And people were telling us that didn't matter for some reason. So it didn't matter.

He's the MVP and his team won the title and he was 17 years old playing against fucking grown men with kids and fully developed bodies. This didn't matter? Second tier league? Okay. I watched like... I don't need to

relitigate that one let me ask you this I think this is a Kyle turn the camera on question what's the league's dream finals

out of the four teams left is it Boston Golden State I feel like they can't lose with any of the any of the matchups I feel like they can't lose with any of the matchups. Dallas gets in, they can just,

they can take the Luka thing and they can fucking shoot it around like a t-shirt gun for two weeks and be like, this is our new star right here. We gave Giannis last year, here's Luka. And if Boston makes it,

they're like, Luka, Tatum, two new stars. We don't need LeBron anymore. LeBron, Durant, that whole generation, bye. Here's our new guys. I guess Miami.

I think really there's any... What's the Miami storyline though? Well, Miami-Dallas would be fun because then we would get a whole... We'd get to have our 2006 finals redux. 2011, we get the... There's an actual weird history between those two teams. So I'm in on that.

The Miami Golden State, I guess. I don't know. Heat culture against Warriors culture. I could talk about... Steph being in the finals is a win. Luka being in the finals is a win. So already they've won either way. Phoenix coming back to the finals

was probably the least exciting out of any West scenario. And then Celtics, I don't know, I guess the Miami, just because they're aesthetically not awesome sometimes. I can't say I'll be telling my grandkids about the Miami Phillies series.

Hey, you guys want to pop on game four of Miami Philly? It's the one where Harding gets hot near the end does anyone pop those games on probably not not even me but what's the dream finals you had to guess I think it's Golden State

Boston they've had great games for six years seven years dating back to like early Brad Stevens. Yeah. For whatever reason, and I used to kind of think it was stupid, you know, when it was like, well, we, we know how to play them.

Remember that was part of the Durant pitch. Like we, we've, we've discovered this thing and I'm like, all right, I don't know if I buy into that, but they do seem to... There seems to be something there whenever they've played. You'd have the smart thing with Steph. They have more size on the wings. They can switch

on everything. They're really good, I think, on defending three-point shooting, if that's the only thing they have to worry about. They're really good at forcing you to do the one thing you don't want to do, which in Golden State's case is having Draymond by himself by six feet at the top of the key trying to decide what to do.

Who do you think is favored to win the NBA title right now? Boston. It's Golden State. Plus 120, Golden State.eltics are two to one miami is plus 420 and dallas is plus 650 dallas was 33 to 1 in mid-april i gotta tell you i'm a little i'm a little off of golden state me too like i'm not saying they can't win it but I'm totally open to the idea of Dallas like just wreaking havoc

Luka going crazy and them finding a way like I don't think this is this is a good Golden State team but it's not even close to what those other teams were I don't think it is

well this is one of my favorite gambling scenarios where we just spent the first 30 minutes of this podcast talking about Phoenix, what the fuck just happened, one of the worst losses,

playoff history, all that stuff. But it's like, what if Dallas is just really good? What if they're just really good? I know. And what if we go to the next round and then they do this to Golden State? And we're like, oh, Dallas is really good. I'm kind of there.

I think Dallas might be really good. I don't trust the Kleber piece of it. That's the X factor to me. I just don't trust him. He only played 21 minutes today. They're able to not play him in the fourth quarter. But anytime they've had to just put miles on him, it gets a little dicey.

But yeah, if you were asking me who am I picking in this series, Warriors are minus 250. Dallas is plus 200. I think it should be way closer to even, personally. If I'm life-dependent on it, I think I would pick Dallas. Really? Yeah. I don't like this Golden State team as a favorite. I'm not surprised.

That feels a little aggressive. And I'm not surprised. That seems, that's, that feels a little aggressive. And I don't know, maybe it's because like, what is it? Game five, Memphis down 50. You know,

does that creep in your head a little bit? Or is that the new normal now? Because I kind of knew, I thought exactly what was going to happen in that series. It's like,

all right, game five is embarrassing and they're going to go home. But that wasn't, you know, it wasn't like they stomped Memphis without job. Five minutes left. Exactly. I mean, it went right down to the wire and then they're going to go home but that wasn't you know it wasn't like they stomped memphis without job five minutes up exactly i mean it went right down to the wire and then they they ran away from him but um i i think i'm more concerned with golden state

with luca you know what i'm saying like by the way it's it's hard for everybody here but luca like you don't need the top level talent all the time around because everybody else's job is easier because of this guy yeah so i don't think i'm gonna pick dallas but the fact that i'm here where i was about dallas after the two games in the phoenix series to where i am now would seem like an impossibility for me to go from... Remember they made the late run in the beginning of the series, and Reggie Miller was talking about how that was a positive, and I was like, somebody's going to wake up and think that this game was close, and they're not close.

After game three, what they did when they came out, and how they defended Paul, and how intense they were, and I was like, whoa, all right, you guys are just down 2-0. I can't believe that in two weeks I've gone from how I felt about this team then to actually contemplating picking them against Golden State, but I probably won't. Last Sunday I did the compare and contrast with the 18 Rockets to the 22 Mavs and how they were kind of more similar

than I was prepared for when I was thinking about them. And I think they are. I think the difference is I just trust Luka way more in a series like that than I did James Harden. And ultimately, I just feel like Luka, when it comes down to it, he's going to come through. I just feel like he will. And I never 100% felt that way about Harden,

even when he was at his peak of peaks. Always felt like it was just a lot of him going between his legs as four guys stood there and repeat, repeat, repeat. And it felt stoppable as the stakes got higher. In this

game, the stakes were as high as they could be. And Luka's like, all right, I'm going to shoot three here. I'm going to post up this guy, foul line jumper. I'm just going to go by everybody and get a layup. He was toying with them. Phoenix was a top five defensive team. Whether Chris was

hurt or not, it doesn't make sense that Luka would just be able to eviscerate them like that. But I don't know how you're going to stop him. And you're right. The trust factor of the big moment, I'll never look at Luka and go, oh, I don't know how you're going to stop him and you're right the trust factor of the big moment I'll never look at Luka and go oh I don't know if this guy's built for this he's absolutely built for this

he was built to do one thing and that's scare the shit out of everybody else and I mean this is this to me is like worth it's something like this was a thing on his resume today to go into Phoenix to do this to that team

like I know you know who knows if they don't get to the NBA finals if they don't want to ring or whatever but like I look at him differently now because of this because of what he did today you and me both Celtics Mavs plus 371 on FanDuel are you betting it? Celtics-Mavs plus 371 on FanDuel.

Are you betting it? No. Only because I'm really worried about the Celts in Game 1. I actually think there would be a better price if they lose Game 1. But the Game 1, I think that's a really hard spot for them. I don't think people fully understand how fucking physical that Milwaukee-Boston series was. And the only reason I have even a somewhat advanced opinion is just having gone to two of the games and just being like, Jesus Christ. This is so...

Al Horford... Do people understand what it's like to take a charge from Giannis? Oh, my God. Do people fully understand on your TV versus what it's like to be a charge from Giannis? Oh, my God. Do people fully understand on your TV versus what it's like to be bowled over by that guy? And like smart guy, how many times did he just get knocked over by Giannis in that series?

Like 12? Grant Williams, like 20? Horford, 15? And it's like you're playing football, only you don't have pads and a helmet. So I just worry about them on Tuesday. I wouldn't say I'm optimistic. I really think Miami's lack of offense

is going to be a problem for them. That'd be the hope, right? Yeah. All right, before we go, a little James Harden. Oh, okay. That'll cheer me up. Yeah, I figured it would.

0-2 in the second half. Yet another terrible playoff moment for him. And now Philly is in an absolute pickle because Darryl's one crush in his life. The crush that he just couldn't resist. And now he's in real trouble. In all kinds of ways. You have the floor.

I need to know how everybody feels about these Harden numbers. Is everybody on the same page? Because I've talked about this a little bit before where I think teams go, hey, this contract will absolutely suck, but we're paying for the window of

two, maybe three years now. All right. Um, and they do it, they do it knowing, knowingly that, that, that the back end years are going to be terrible. I also think everybody's like, ah, whatever. I'll just trade him and be like, are you sure? Like, yeah, the cap goes up. Who cares?

Whatever. All right. Um, I have to imagine that Daryl has some sort of reassurance from Harden or Harden has some reassurances from the Sixers that everything was going to work out here on the contract thing. But I can't fathom what this dude is going to look like in another couple of years because it's bad and it got bad quick. And everything I've ever heard about him is that he doesn't really get it.

He doesn't want to take care of himself. He doesn't think he doesn't really get it. He doesn't want to take care of himself. He doesn't think he needs to do these things. He feels like he's falling off a cliff physically here. That's not something I'd want to sign up for in a five-year max. There's been guys like this over the years

that were really good and then all of a sudden they just hit a different point of their career physically and endurance-wise, and you could see it. Iverson is the most famous example, but I think Rasheed Wallace was like that. Rasheed Wallace, when he was on the Pistons,

was just this unbelievable... And that was later peak Rasheed. It's an unbelievable specimen, right? All the stuff he could do. There was just nobody like with his size and all that stuff. Then all of a sudden, it was kind of done. By 2009, I was like, oh, this is a wrap? Really?

That was fast. Big Dog Robinson was like that. That guy was really good. Then all of a sudden, he's bouncing around. He's on the Spurs bench. It's like, what happened to that guy? It was almost overnight. There's different reasons for it, right?

Something can happen injury-wise. People can not take care of themselves. They can go out too much, whatever the reason is. But you kind of know it when you see it. Jermaine O'Neal, when he was in that Miami getting traded to Toronto, and people were acting like he was still the guy who averaged 24 a game. And it's like, he's not anymore. He's not that guy. I watch basketball.

I have league pass. That guy's gone. And the Harden, he just seems gone. Whatever that version we think is gone and you could say is there a world where we see him running the steps and he's in amazing shape? I just don't think he gives a shit like that. I don't see him being like

watch this. I'm going to show everybody. I don't think it's in him. No, I don't think he gives a shit like that. I don't see him being like, watch this. I'm going to show everybody. I don't think it's in him. No, I don't think it is. I don't think it is either. Because I think he's felt like, well, look how good I've been this entire time. Yeah, I think he thinks he's had a great career. Hey, man, won a bunch of playoff series.

I won an MVP. I'm one of the greatest scorers in the history of the league. I'm not going to apologize. I had a great career. Fuck off. Yeah, that's always been my Rashided theory because I thought Rasheed should have been an even better player. He should have been. He could have been

as good as KG talent-wise. Yeah. KG was wired completely differently than he was. That's why they had different careers. Right. I think Rasheed was like, I got a ring. I got $100 million. It's my Rasheed Wallace theory. You're telling that guy he did it wrong. Heed was like, I got a ring. I got a hundred million. It's my Rasheed Wallace theory. You're telling that guy he did it wrong.

And he would be like, what? So I think Harden probably falls into that same. Shaq's the ultimate example of that. Shaq's like the 13th best player ever. He won three straight titles and has the best finals numbers, three straight years of anyone ever. And it's hard to be like, I should have been a little better. Shaq's like, no, I was really good, actually.

I made $400 million. I'm one of the most popular endorsement athletes now. I'm a great fucking guy. Everyone loves me. I'm on TV. I think I did it right, actually. Thanks for your advice, though. Then guys like us are like, you could have been 10% better. You just spent a little bit more shape. I think

Harden is like that. The problem is now you go like you moved a major resource in Simmons for Harden. For the wrong person. Yeah. Well, and Curry, who indeed loved playing.

Yeah, and look, I'll admit, I think because the way maybe we were talking about the Simmons trade partners with our group or whoever, I felt like, well, getting hardened, despite people telling me brooklyn's going yeah or the guy we're trading you actually plays he plays bad on purpose now but he plays and your guy doesn't play and then you get the whole simmons thing so i felt like in a way daryl pulled something off here maybe i'm wrong but then to see it play out this way and then i kind of i loved mb being like yeah, maybe James could be a little bit more aggressive. And then people were on his case, and I go, I don't care. If you're a team, and your number one guy in Embiid is going to call out what's painfully obvious, you could have done an endless loop of game six of stuff with Harden where you were like, what are you doing? Why do you not care more? How can you actually be like this? And I love to be calling him out for it. There's no way Harden could have survived in that Milwaukee Celtics series

without physical and wasn't that hard. Everyone was trying. You know how much he would have stood out like a sore thumb? Everyone's flying around. Bodies are all over the place. And there's James like jogging around. I think it bums me out as somebody who cares about basketball

because I really do think he was great. And some guys are just missing that small little thing. But he quit on two teams. That didn't sit right with either of us the whole time. That's not why I follow sports, to watch it like that happen. And then you think like, well, at least when he goes to Philly, now he's going to be happy. Maybe he'll dig deep and find something that, you know,

sitting there and obviously nothing's sitting there. And I can't fathom. Maybe we're older now. We follow basketball for so long that we kind of, you know, you see the same mistakes being made over and over again. You have this reservoir of shit detector stuff there and you're like, yeah, that's a bad sign. I remember that when this happened in that year. With Harden, I know it's a mistake to give that guy $250 million. I can't imagine anyone will do that. There's no way that works out. It's a zero percent chance.

What do you think will happen then? Paying for past performance. Paying for past performance is the worst thing you can do in sports. Yeah. And it happens in baseball all the time. It used to happen. It doesn't happen as much anymore. No, but remember, that's what baseball was.

Yeah. Cool. Now we're going to give you this huge contract right after you turn 30. Awesome. And then basically every team was like, wait, we're just doing this wrong all the time?

Yeah, you're right. That's hard to think. It's like a 1997 baseball contract. It's perfect. You'd be like, yeah, he had like 24 home runs in right field

three years ago, I think. But I don't, I think. But I don't know, man. Do you think Daryl would do something crazy here? I can't imagine unless they were afraid they were going to get sued

and there was all kinds of tampering stuff and they felt like we actually have to give them the deal because there's a paper trail. Almost like a Joe Smith, Minnesota type of situation. There's not a thing like that. I can't imagine why

they would do anything more than one year with him. Who's signing him? What team out there watched Harden and was like, maybe we can get James Harden. Maybe a team that has nothing to show for itself for however many years.

But there's only like four or five teams with cap space. Yeah. And it doesn't make any sense with any of them, I wouldn't think. Well, I'll tell you, as a Celtics fan, for them to get those picks with Simmons and Embiid, not to mention all the other picks they had for just how it played out. If you look at the asset war chests they had, like

2016-17 range to what they have now, it's pretty crazy. This is after hitting the Maxi pick. That one is just... Little skill drafting him, but also luck that he was the seventh point guard in that draft, whatever it was. And that turned out to be the third best pick they made of all the process picks. But pretty rough. And then what happens?

Here's the other thing if you're Philly. You have to really worry about this. What happens if Embiid says, get me the fuck out of here? I don't want to play with that guy. And the Philly fans would say, well, no, he's under contract. It's like, cool. Well, we've seen that play before. Let me point you to five other guys who had long-term contracts

who were like, get me the fuck out of here. Then guess what? So, you know, there's a team like the Knicks where he has his old agents running the Knicks. I'd be worried about that if I was Philly. Yeah, because you're signing up for, you're like, you just saw it play out. You saw Embiid's frustration.

And Embiid, you know, look, I thought some of the MVP stuff the day of when he came back didn't make any sense. They're like, oh, he's devastated he didn't win MVP. It's like, dude, he's got a broken thumb, a broken orbital bone, a concussion. He couldn't run for six days throw you right back into an nba game playoff game and we have this fiber mask for you if you

get hit in the face it won't be that bad it's not gonna feel good yeah but it's not gonna be that bad you'll cry on the court but it'll be fun yeah you're gonna cry on the court you're gonna cry from excruciating pain and it might actually make your ass sight worse but try this out put it on so i uh i don't you know and be although a lot of the foreign guys don't ever seem to to force their way out i don't know if that's just something that happened does it mean it's a thing or is it just something that's happening um so far it's been you know the american guys yeah even hakeem tried to get traded that one time for a split second and then kind of gave up on it we used some of the rockets remember it seemed like they were getting traded never actually god you went way back yeah you went way back well i've

told you this before i'll never forget there was like a split second where it was like... The Celtics with Hakeem? I was driving around all-time bitter that I couldn't break into media and listen to the WEI guys talk about... I was in grad school wondering how I was going to get a job and listen to these guys talk about whether you'd trade Reggie Lewis for Hakeem Olajuwon.

I was ready to just start steering my car into traffic. Did you call in? I was just like, oh my god, how do these people have jobs? And it's going to be hard for me to find one. Where these people are having a real conversation about whether the Celtics should give up Reggie Lewis for Hakeem Olajuwon. And I love Reggie Lewis, but what are we doing? This is Hakeem Olajuwon.

That's a tough one. Was that a weekend shift maybe? Yeah, man. No, it definitely wasn't it wasn't I think it was a drive time afternoon shift that's what it was

but but yeah anyway alright so we see that the same way alright before we go it is now 828 pacific time

we're going to set up Cerruti because the Suns game ended over an hour ago and now there's some stuff popping up. Let's go live to the sidelines where Steve Saruti is there. Steve, how are you? I'm great. Do you want the Chris Paul news first

or the DeAndre Ayton news first? Let's get the Chris Paul news first. Alright, Chris Paul said that he is not retiring. We'll be back next year and then also this is coming out. I think this is from Mark Spears. Learned that Chris Paul left quad injury, but he declined to comment about it. Left quad injury.

Okay. Well, that explains it. I mean, that's only the leg he pushes off of, right, for most of his... Makes sense. Okay. Pat Beverly also getting involved too, by the way,

talking some smack. Doesn't want to hear about the injury situation. Oh, really? You. Pat Beverly also getting involved too, by the way, talking some smack. Doesn't want to hear about the injury situation. Oh, really? You mean Pat Beverly who shoved Chris Paul and got traded immediately after he smoked the Clippers last year? Why do we have to hear from Pat Beverly when he's not in the playoffs? All right. What else? What's the DeAndre? This might be juicier. So this coming out after the game, he did not talk to the media.

Then Coach Monty Williams was asked after the game why he only played 17 minutes and zero in the fourth quarter. Monty, in a very angry, stern tone, said, quote, it's internal. Then Devin Booker, after the game, also asked about his contract situation and said, I care about him as a brother. I just want to make sure his

mental situation is right. Whatever happens, happens. Doesn't sound great. So it turns out when you don't sign the guy to the contract extension, you let it play out and then

there's a reason for that person to possibly create her in a big game and that contract stuff pops back up. That's maybe why you take care of it before the season. Yeah. That would be another side of the argument to it. Not having the worst game seven ever.

I didn't realize he only played 17 minutes. I don't really remember that many of the 17 minutes. I mean, everybody was so bad in that game. It was hard to even pinpoint one. But on top of it, everybody was so bad in that game, it was hard to even pinpoint one. But on top of it, that was the guy they drafted over Luka, which is pretty brutal as well.

Yeah, I think there was a little of that with Luka tonight too, looking around, going, you guys took this guy number one. Luka, it would be funny after the press conference, he's like, you you know I'd love to do this to Sacramento but I don't know if I'm ever going to see them in the playoffs it's going to have to be a game in December and we know Atlanta's

not getting into the finals definitely not wow Phoenix dissension and the Sarver story hasn't even come out yet the final investigation what's going on with that thing? It took the whole season. Who knows? Who knows?

Even I don't know anything about that one. Usually I hear a little. That thing's been buttoned up. That's what I'm wondering. I'm wondering if there will be an oral history written about the lead up to this game seven. Like somebody's pet died.

Narrative pod. Why you do it? Is it too early to do it? Narrative pod. Tuesday on the Ryan Rosillo podcast. Or history. I'm going to interview Big Cat, Chris Long, and DeAndre Ayton's brother

Frank. That would be amazing to just be able to pull it off, title it. Two days after they have the worst game. It wouldn't even be full two days. It wouldn't even be 48 hours. Just be like, all right, here's what I'm hearing. It wouldn't be very good. Yeah, I mean, the funny thing is, they're not funny,

but Dallas could lose to Golden State next round. But Phoenix, no matter what happens, they're on the short list, as we discussed at the top. People always mention the 2022 Suns when they talk about playoff teams that shit the bed at the worst possible time. They will be mentioned. I don't know if they'll be first, second, third, fourth, fifth. But they will be one of the first teams mentioned.

The same way the 07 Mavs, who then were able to shake it off a little bit because they won the finals in 2011, so it felt like that, I don't know, kind of softened it. But this one, I just don't see. I think they missed their window. That was it. We're going to look at this. It was like last year, this year, and that was it.

That was their window. To think, to say, with zero exaggeration, you can just say we witnessed today one of the worst losses in NBA history. Yeah. Yes. There you go. All right, Ryan

Rosselli, you can hear him. Your podcast usually goes up Tuesday morning, lunchtime, East Coast time range. And we'll be back here next Sunday. Probably at one part of this, only one game. But I will see you next Sunday. Sorry about Chris Paul. Thank you for your concern.

Podcast produced as always by Kyle Creighton. Steve Cerruti was our reporter on the ground. Dylan Berkey as well. I will see you on this feed on Tuesday. Don't forget, huge rewatchables coming on Monday night. Not telling you the movie, but it's a very famous one. See you then. I don't have.