The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 2: Sixers-Knicks, Leo-Sinatra, LeBron-Jokic, Kraft-Belichick and Half-Baked Ideas With Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Kevin Wildes

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

In Part 2 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Sean Fennessey to discuss the highly anticipated 76ers-Knicks playoff series (1:34). Then, Bill talks with Kevin Wildes of FS1 to discuss the Lakers-Nuggets Round 1 playoff series (34:39), ESPN's Bill Belichick story (53:44), and some Half-Baked Ideas (1:17:44). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Kevin Wildes Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh my God, it's part two of the NBA playoff extravaganza with a little football too next. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday night Hockey deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals, can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days

when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time.

Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can hear part one of this podcast,

which had Rob Mahoney and Logan Murdoch on it. We did a big playoff breakdown with Rob, and we talked about the possible basketball death of the Curry Area Warriors. Or is it? We hit it. So that's what you missed in part one. Part two is going to have our old friends,

Chris Ryan and Sean Fantasy, who you can hear me on the rewatchables with every once in a while. Chris is a Sixers fan. Sean's a Knicks fan. So we got to do Sixers Knicks because that's the most fun round one series. And then after that, our old friend, Kevin Wilds,

we're going to talk about LeBron James and the Nuggets. I have some LeBron James theories to throw out there. And then we're going to talk about Bill Belichick and the big ESPN piece and just what the hell is going on with this whole situation. Why some of the narrative about Belichick and the Patriots bothers us. So that is what we have in store along with some half-baked ideas from Kevin, which I'm very excited about. It's a good one. Part two, next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I've known Chris Ryan since 2011.

I've known Sean Fancy since 2012 when we all started working together. It's been 12 years. Nary a Sixers-Knicks playoff series where both guys kind of like their teams. Nary a Knicks-Sixers playoff series where both guys kind of like their teams. Nary and Nick's six-year playoff series anyway. And Nary,

Nick's team that Sean Fantasy even liked. And Sean Fantasy loves this team. And now we have a two versus seven. Sixers, Nick's. Though right now, looking at FanDuel, the odds are dead even. Both teams are minus 110. Vegas says this is a dead even series

um can we just i want to what's the relationship like these days i just want to find out what where do things stand with you is this going to get ugly what's going to happen bill you know i know you don't really do a ton of baseball talk anymore but i can feel this is kind of like your your shadow jacko kind of like you're setting us up. Can I do it? Yeah. Oh, Shawnee! Oh, you did that with Shawnee? Do you want to do the Van Pelt intro for my intro?

I know you have to ask, Bill. No, seriously. I think Shawnee and I are good, man. I mean, I'm just so happy not to be playing any more games against the Miami Heat. And I'm ecstatic not to be in the Boston side of the bracket. So a little bit of a spring vacation for me. Fantasy, you missed the Boston side of the bracket. Giannis is still hurt.

We have no idea when he's coming back. And you get to play Philly with Embiid, who's just been limping around for the past couple weeks. And nobody has any idea if he's coming back and you get to play Philly with Embiid who's just been limping around for the past couple weeks and nobody has any idea if he's healthy we were seconds away though from the heat without Jimmy Butler which would have been that would have been a little tasty you say that you say that but just let me tell you don't want it without Jimmy though without you I mean I don't really I don't really want to deal with Joel Embiid. Even if he's only at 60%, I don't want to deal with him. Now, I know he was a mummy through three quarters of that Heat game. But I just, you know, he legitimately is one of the five best players in the NBA.

That's not who you want to see in a playoff game. You just don't want to deal with a player like that. That being said, I think Mitchell Robinson is going to be kicking him in the shins nonstop for seven straight games. Mitchell Robinson. Chris, can you walk us through year eight of I wonder what we're going to get out of Joel Embiid? This is different this

year because I think he would have repeated his MVP if he hadn't gotten hurt. I really like this team. This team arguably would have been where Sean's team is now in the second seed if he had't gotten hurt. I really like this team. This team arguably would have been where Sean's team is now in the second seed if he had stayed healthy. I don't think that he was

padding stats or packing on extra minutes to win an MVP, which I do think in the past he has been perhaps guilty of and the team has been guilty of letting him do that. It was actually like a pretty

stress-free season for me, honestly. And then the last batch of it with the sort of weird Tobias swan dive that happened in Embiid's absence really just kind of made it a bit of a headache until Embiid came back and the Sixers

won eight out of their last ten and look awesome. So, yeah, he tweaked his knee again at the end of the very regular season and had a lot of the sort of grabbing at it last night, looking a little bit mopey, looking a little bit out of it. But he still went nuclear towards the end of the game and won that game for them.

Even some of the plays he was making, like the pass to Oubre and stuff, it was just fantastic to see him. Just get me the hell away from that Miami zone. Jesus Christ. Yeah, so I really wanted to see him. And just get me the hell away from that Miami zone. Jesus Christ. Yeah, so I really wanted to play Miami. Because I felt like... Boston wants to play Miami? It wasn't even like I want to,

because I think they would have beaten Philly or Miami. But I was like, you know what? We're better than this Miami team. Let's take them down. Let's really cut the head off, like end of H2O Halloween style. Like really let's, let's actually murder this beast once and for all and take these guys out and

sweep them and send them fucking packing. And then I couldn't even get the, enjoy it for two minutes. Like I was going to root for Miami in the play. And like, let's bring it on. I want to play these guys. And then there's Butler limping off.

And you know, now, now it's this weird thing where it's like, Hey, I'm more afraid of Chicago. He played through an MCL tear. I mean, you're going to get Chicago without Caruso.

I think no, but the internet video came out like, I don't know, half hour after where it was like, here's Jimmy Butler leaving the stadium. Okay. Yeah. It was clear.

He was really hurt. Um, Shams came in. I think it was just, here's Jimmy Butler leaving the stadium. Okay. Yeah. It was clear. He was really hurt. Um, Shams came in. I think it was just like the Miami thing is, is just like Spolstra is a warlock. And, and even last night when they were, when they went,

when they went zone after bam got in foul trouble, I was just like, I can't believe that this seems like this was not discussed in Philadelphia. Like over the four or five days that they seems like this was not discussed in Philadelphia. Like over the four or five days that they've had. No idea this is coming. It wasn't like, Kyle, can you come in and just do a quick Zoom seminar on what Miami does with the zone? It's like, they're just going to dribble right into two guys

and nobody's going to be able to throw a pass to Embiid. So just having that be over with, I'm so excited to play the Knicks because it's just a fresh page for the Sixers. It's not the same villain every time. It looked like a classic garbage Miami win where Hero was going to take 30 shots. Nobody else really played well. Yeah, they're booing the Sixers in the first half.

Yeah, Butler's having a bad game, but then you got Nick Batum. Fantasy, how do you work up the proper amount of hatred for Kyle Lowry? Like, is it just you go to the fridge and grab it? Or are there some calisthenics you're going to do? Play this out. Because he's going to trip

Brunson in the first hour of game one. But you got to remember, you know, he's a child of Philadelphia and the Nova Knicks are children of Philadelphia, too. So I'm expecting him to come out and just rip off his Sixers jersey and reveal a Knicks jersey underneath remember you know he's a child of Philadelphia and the Nova Knicks are children of Philadelphia too so I'm expecting him to come out and just rip off his Sixers jersey

and reveal a Knicks jersey underneath you know just like we're taking over the city of Philly we're gonna there's gonna be is it gonna be 30% 50% Knicks fans

at those Philly games I mean what are you stupid we got the Josh Hart boys we got the DiVincenzo boys we got the Brunson boys they're all coming out so I'm not Kyle Lowry he's ancient 50% Knicks fans in Philadelphia man you need to We got the DeVincenzo boys. We got the Brunson boys. They're all coming out.

So I'm not right. Kyle Lowry, he's ancient. I'm like 50% Knicks fans in Philadelphia, man. You need to chill out. I need my Knicks brothers to stand up and show up in the city of shitty love and just show out. I was trying to be diplomatic to you. What's your problem? Let's go.

Now I hope Kyle Lowry, quote unquote, falls right onto Jalen Brunson's knee. No, he's going to do the thing where he takes a charge, but pulls Jalen Brunson with him. And Jalen Brunson slams his elbow. Yeah, that's happening in the first hour of the game. Well, Sean, the athlete you hated the most in your entire life was Chase Utley. Yes. Who I believe played for our Philadelphia team. Yeah, he's a war criminal.

And he was tried at the Hague and he was killed for his crimes publicly. Well, now you're going to have Lowry. Yeah, put him on the list. Yeah, put him on the list. Send him to Flushing Queen. See what happens to Kyle Lowry. If he puts one finger on Jalen Brunson, he will be buried under the earth forever. If he touches that man.

He's not dirty. He just plays hard. He's just physical. That's going to be one really fun storyline is Kyle Lowry doing things. I actually thought he looked pretty frisky down the stretch. Like he's not washed up. Like he's definitely old, but he's not washed up. I was listening to Rizzolo on the way back home today, though,

and he was just like, I feel like I should be paid to watch Kyle Lowry. Yeah, it's not funny. But he's not, like, ineffective. And then the other piece that's going to be so hilarious from a Knicks fan standpoint is just the fouls Embiid gets. With the noises the MSG crowd

is going to make, Sean, when Embiid is lurching into people and just Isaiah Hartenstein all of a sudden has three fouls in the first half of these games and they're replaying it and the crowd's going nuts on the Jimbo China. I can't wait for that. If I was the Sixers head

coach, I would probably be encouraging them to try to get OG into foul trouble because I think OG is going to probably guard Embiid a solid amount of time. That's no problem. We'll do that. I mean, you're going to need the refs to go his way. Can you get two straight weeks out of OJ would be the other question.

Yeah. I mean, if they do, I think the Knicks will be good. Sean, in all sincerity, do you feel like you're going to miss Randall in this series and miss having a little bit more offense? No doubt about it. of course. He is hugely important to the offensive makeup of the team,

but the one time this year when the Knicks and the Sixers played each other at full strength, Randall played in that game, but he went 1 for 11 of the field, and the Knicks still won by 38. So the Knicks at full strength are really, really good, but also

Randall has been the hardest thing to watch in the playoffs for the Knicks the last two out of the last three seasons. So I'm wondering if him being off the floor just continues to open it up for dudes. You know, if Dante and OG just are more comfortable not having to defer to Randle offensively. I don't like losing 24-10 every night, but I do like watching the Knicks more without Randall. I don't know if their ceiling is this high, but there's something about the style they have post-Randall that resonates with me and I think is going to work in the playoffs because they play so fucking hard.

And they get so many garbage rebound baskets and just hustle plays, and they're just relentless. To me, there's a little 0-4 Pistons in there with these guys. I don't think they're as talented, and I think the league is way better than it was in 0-4. But there's some sort of toughness and identity, and they always seem to at least have one guy going late offensively. And they're physical, and they keep coming.

And it's, Chris, it's not, doesn't seem like the ideal opponent for I'm not totally healthy Joel Embiid. That, if you're giving me that caveat, and we're saying Embiid has got some kind of knock, or he's still nursing the meniscus, and it's not quite right. I hear you.

If this is like a flat track and Embiid is close to or at like 85 to 90%, I don't really... I think the Sixers are better than the Knicks, respectfully. What makes you think that he's 85%? I don't. I mean, I'm just basing this off of honestly how much better the team works when he is on the floor regardless of his health because like even last night aside with like the junk ball that we had to deal with he makes all the other players around him make sense just by his presence and regardless of whether or not he's out there on one leg and crutches hartenstein or or og or whoever it's going to be he's going to be the focal point and

it's going to free up maxi and it's going to free up some other guys. And granted, like can't count on any single person anymore on the Sixers where it's like, sometimes you might get a good Nick Patum game. Sometimes Buddy might hit the broad side of a barn. But like,

I think that the Sixers actually have some depth coming into this postseason, which we typically have not had. So I actually, honestly, I'm going to regret this, but I'm feeling pretty bullish on this, on this series. Like, I think the Knicks are a year away from being there. Wow, honestly, I'm going to regret this, but I'm feeling pretty bullish on this series. I think the Knicks are a year away from being there.

Wow, Sean, hearing that, a confident CR isn't something I'm used to. I'm not confident, but I've just been. No, that's not a confident. I've been in the war. We've been in the trenches with these. The Sixers have gotten their asses kicked in the playoffs. They've come up short in the playoffs.

They have a lot of playoff experience. Brunson has a couple years. I just think that the Sixers are going to be pretty savvy in the playoffs. They've come up short in the playoffs. Like, they have a lot of playoff experience. Brunson has, like, a couple years. Like, I just think that the Sixers are going to be pretty savvy in this series. This is the same spot the Knicks were in last year in the first round.

Going up against the Cavs team that people thought were more talented. It's different. That Cavs team is, like, young. That Cavs team, like,

Mobley, all those guys were inexperienced. Like, this is a different beast. You don't know about... Donovan Mitchell, you know, who had success in the playoffs. The French poetry coming out of Nick Batum. I'm not worried about Nick Batum over seven games.

Nick Batum and Kyle Lowry playing a combined 45 minutes a game. I'm not that really worried about that. Chris and I have done this before, but never with basketball. Last fall, Chris and our pal Zach Barron came over to watch a Jets Eagles game. And I'll just say that was probably my, you guys targeted Jalen hurts openly. We did,

we did target Jalen hurts and we, we wounded him and we, we took him down like the sad bird that he is. And, uh, you guys lost to Zach Wilson. So just be careful how confident you are. I forgot you lost to Zach Wilson. That was the beginning of the end. That was horrible. Who do you hate on the Knicks, Chris? Me? Have you worked up animosity against anyone yet? I really like the Villanova guys,

but I will learn to hate Josh Hart. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Good choice. I went to Temple, so there's a little bit of Big Five. I like I was Temple. So I like there's a little bit of big five like I like the Villanova guys. I'm not like they're not like my my got my guys my guys. But

like I know that Josh Hart will die for a loose ball and and like knock Maxie into the third row in the process and it's going to it's going to be a problem. Did you like what you saw from Maxie last night? Because I did not. I did not. I did not. And I thought he would have been the key to breaking that zone.

He should have just been diving at the rim. And he seemed to freeze up a little bit. I was so confused by the most improved player thing for him. I know Russell and I talked about it on Sunday, but I just didn't understand the candidacy. Maybe I don't understand the award, but I thought he was good last year. And it just seems like he had more shots this year.

But did you feel like he was considerably better than he was last year? I think he was really awesome with Embiid, and then I think that he had some struggles without Embiid, where it was like he was being forced to take up... He just had way more usage. Isn't the

point to be considerably better than the year before? I wouldn't say that was the case. I mean, I... Most... Like, nobody puts a most improved banner up in their arena. Like, I don't really care.

Sean has one. What was that? 14? I think I really get 14. Most improved podcast 2018. The big picture. That's true. I'm really proud of that.

You took the leap. You got more shots, though, so we don't know. So, I just want both of you to know I have already wagered on this series. Oh, great. You bet.

So, we're going to find out who's going to win and it's going to be not who you wagered on. It's, I think the bet I like the most in round one out of all the eight series

and it's the New York Knicks. Yeah, I knew that. I could feel it. Oh, we're so fucked. Oh my God. I think the Knicks are legit good. I'm a believer.

I think they're a good team. I really like their closing five. I honestly wouldn't have it any other way. I wouldn't have it any other way than just yet again you not believing in me and us. CR, I took like their closing five. I honestly wouldn't have it any other way. I wouldn't have it any other way than just yet again,

you not believing in me and us. CR, I took like literally every eagle on my fantasy team last year and picked them, I think, to win the Super Bowl or come close. Like, this is not an anti-Philly thing. I really like the Knicks closing five. I think they know who their five is.

And I think those guys play really well together. When OG's back, all the stuff I've seen when OG played with Hart, DiVincenzo, and Brunson, and I think those guys play really well together. When OG's back, all the stuff I've seen when OG played with Hart, DiFicenzo, and Brunson, and Hartenstein, those guys play great together. And I'm worried about them with the Celtics. I don't know if OG's going to stay healthy, but I like that five against whatever five the Sixers are going to have. Like Kelly Oubre, Tobias. The Sixers have even Maxie a little bit. The Sixers have guys I don't know if I totally trust. If it's in New York, those five Knicks guys are flying around.

The crowd's going to be out of their minds. And I just don't know how many of the Sixers I completely trust. I've seen Nick Batum's act for 15 years. Nick Batum will just disappear. He's done it over and over again in the playoffs. He's exit stage right. And he's been really good this year, but I don't trust him. I think the

idea is that on any given night somebody's got it, and the Sixers now have more cards to play than just like, oh, Nick Batum didn't make a shot tonight, so I guess we're screwed and we lose by 18. It's like, theoretically, somebody among Buddy, Nick, Oubre, Tobias,

one of those wings should have it going. And if that's happening, then that's a little bit of an uptick. I also just think that we're giving the Knicks an enormous pat on the back for a great regular season when it's just like, I haven't seen Deuce McBride in the playoffs. I haven't seen Dante DiVincenzo, I guess, of the Warriors, but I haven't seen...

He was good last year. Sure, yeah. Hart and DiVincenzo are both good players, but I wouldn't like Dante DiVincenzo, I guess of the Warriors, but like I haven't seen like good last year. Sure. Yeah. Hart and DiVincenzo are both good players, but I haven't I wouldn't say that they swing playoff series with any regularity. Jalen's the guy that you got to stop. I mean, OG, when's the last time OG like contributed to a playoff series victory? They're just as unproven

as any of the guys. I think it was when he beat the 76ers. In the 2019 when Kawhi Leonard won the championship. I can think of a couple other guys who were more important than him that year. Only a couple, though. One of which is on your team right now. Chris, here's the case for you.

Embiid kills the Knicks. Embiid's healthier than people realize. He's the best part in the series. He's a rope-a-dope. And he just whoops the Knicks. Anytime you can rope-a-dope in a single elimination game, you got to do it, right? You got to just try to withhold.

It was a long play. He was Kaiser Soze-ing it. I mean, I think... Yeah, it was a Willis Reed homage. I think the tricky thing about this series, what makes it so fun, is that they're so evenly matched. Like, the Knicks won six of the last seven.

The Sixers won eight of their last ten. They both have dealt with injuries a lot. They both have nights where random guys just get crazy hot, and you're like, how did DiVincenzo go for 32 tonight? I never expected that this season. So, they're tight. They're very similar teams, And we have no history.

I mean, it's 35, 36 years since they faced off in the playoffs. That's crazy for teams that are in the same division. You guys are in the same division and there's eight teams in the East every year. It's like impossible that they haven't played. It's weird. It's like the Sixers are always drawn against, like, it feels like we always have a first-round

matchup against Brooklyn or the Wizards. Then there's the Hawks series. There's like the Sixers are always drawn against, like, it feels like we always have, like, a first-round matchup against Boston, I'm sorry, Brooklyn or the Wizards. Then there's, like, the Hawks series, there's a Raptors series. But I just, we've been missing the Knicks

for most of my adult life. Yeah. It's been an embarrassing franchise. Yeah. The Knicks don't make, the fact, one of the things

I looked it up, one of the things that really hurt was that the Knicks never made the playoffs. So that, that turned out that was the issue. That was the key, really. But now I'm getting lectured on how the Knicks are going to handle the playoffs.

It's like, well, welcome to the party. Well, these Villanova guys have a title together. They're no stranger to the big stage. Do you see things transfer now? They played in front of 80,000 people. There's another element to this series that I think is kind of fun where Embiid, like Wes and Leon are his guys. Like those literally were his guys before Leon took the job.

And it was anytime anything started to go south with Embiid, it was always like, oh, he's going to the Knicks. Those guys are going to get him. And now they're going head to head against him. Then you have the Villanova with the Villanova guys, but they're on the Knicks. You have Kyle Lowry, who is the big brother to all those Villanova guys. Like the same way all this college shit works where it's like, oh yeah, Kyle Lowry came back. He's going to take us out to a steak dinner because he's making money in the NBA. And now they have to play against him. And then you have this whole Philly, New York thing,

which is hilarious because there's only two things that New York really treats with complete disdain, which are Red Sox fans pre-2004 and really the entire city of Philadelphia, Sean. Is that fair? Well, I'm not a Giants fan, so I don't have the same level of disgust with the Eagles, but that's a blood feud.

I mean, those two franchises, their fan bases hate each other. The Knicks and the Sixers don't have any energy between them. The Phillies, I'll burn the Phillies alive. I'll burn every member of that team. I hate those guys. And honestly, they're really good

and it just pisses me off. So Chris and I were talking about the other day and he had some unkind words for his own Phillies. No, I was just like, I would love to see a little bit of October in the late spring. I would love to see the bats warm up before it gets cold out again.

That's the only thing with the Phillies. But it's like, you just wind up waiting for them to go nuts towards the end of the season. I think that... Wait, hold on. Chris, one thing. I do have to say,

to answer your question, Bill, the only thing that really unites Chris and I more have to say to answer your question Bill the only thing that really unites Chris and I more on this is how much we fucking hate Boston I mean really the Celtics are the true enemy here and you know it yeah this whole like pitting me and Sean against one another what these two piranhas in a tank one another

and we're just done with basketball by the time the East Conference finals comes along that fucking chance that's not happening. Are you guys going to watch a game together? I'm sure. Probably. Really? I would never do that. I wouldn't be able to do it.

You know Chris is... I'm a bad person. I'm vindictive and I'm vengeful and I'm a crybaby. Chris is like, he's the best guy. He won't make it hard on me. He'll always be decent in those environments. That being said, I have a lot of other friends from Philadelphia

for which that is not the case. And so I probably won't watch with them. So Zach Barron? I'm not naming any names. Last night, it was the first time it got really real for me. It's been an interesting season because I was like, man, Nick Nurse is really good at coaching basketball. And this team is really well-balanced.

And I really liked them. And if it wasn't for this dumb juggernaut Boston team who shoots 53s a game, we might be real finals contenders. And then Embiid goes out. And I was like, all right, well, I've emotionally divested from this. And then last night, I just don't want to say straight up that I was happy that Jimmy Butler got hurt, but I think that my reaction in my living room would indicate that I was. And so I got back in, I was living and dying with every possession and that was

intense, but I think I can behave myself around Sean. Not around you though. If the Sixers play the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals, it's war. Sean, is Brunson in top eight New York athletes of your lifetime that you've loved? Wow. Has he cracked the top 15? I think an extended playoff run this year would go a long way to cementing that.

That would get him into a sphere. At least the Ewing status, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, Ewing has finals under his belt at least, right? Like, who are the guys in my life that it's a very, very short list? It's like David Wright, you know what I mean? There's just not a lot of guys since 1995 who have been... Yeah, Aaron Rodgers, absolutely.

Yeah, especially in the offseason. Anytime you got a microphone in front of his face, he's right up there in the top eight. He's in, like, my top eight MySpace friends. Testaverde. Yeah. Literally, we're talking about

Vinny Testaverde. Sanchez. It's tough. It's really tough. A couple of Jacob DeGrom years. No, it's always like the Brick of Shaw Ferguson. You know what I mean?

Like it's like left tackles. Like I don't have a lot of dudes that I can call back to. One of the things about we mentioned this side of the things about... We mentioned this side of the bracket, Bill, but I gotta admit, I'm pretty

keyed up about Giannis being out. And this idea that this side of the bracket is kind of up for grabs a little bit. At least the Bucs are not a certainty to even beat the Pacers, much less go through in the second round. So like,

I think this is like a huge series for the conference itself. Wow, look at that. Why do you have a Dame Lillard bobblehead? I bought it on eBay because I thought if he sucked in the playoffs, it would be funny.

And if he got going in the playoffs, it would be funny. But either way, I just needed some more props for my playoff Zoom. Are you sticking needles in it like a voodoo doll? No.

He's just, Dame's just right here. He's just enjoying the podcast, hanging out with you guys. You have a lot of stock in Dame. The Dame trade was a bad idea too. So you really need them to tank out here. I gotta be honest. Yeah. Already cashed it.

Yeah. You took all that money and spent it on Drew Holiday's mid-30s. You think the Bucs fans want to do the Dame trade again? I mean, he would have to drop 35 a game in the playoffs to even make them feel decent about it. Watching him in that Orlando game was shocking because the Bucs were trying in that game and he literally couldn't do anything.

Okay, Bill, who are you most afraid of then to face in the Eastern Conference Finals? It would be Philly if Embiid shows that he's playing himself back into shape and he actually could be a force. I don't think it's shape, though. I think it's more like the knee itself is still hurt. So it's not going to be like,

oh, Embiid just got his wind back. It's going to be, can he play with the pain? Which, honestly, at this point, I'm kind of used to. I'm kind of used to that being who he is. I'm not afraid of Philly. I don't think he's going to be healthy. All the teams are in the West for me. And if the Celtics,

put it this way, if the Celtics lose, they're minus 220 to win the East on Fandle now, which is a crazy number. That's like a 2017 Warriors type of number. for them to blow this before round four would either somebody got hurt or it's one of the biggest chokes in the history of the city. The one seat statistically though is not always,

isn't it? It's kind of rare, right? That it's always the one seat that goes to the finals. Yeah. But in this case, when you're talking the company they're in from point differential and net rating with the greatest teams of all

time, it would be the most shocking result out of anyone in the top 10. Them not making the finals. But Embiid is better than anyone on the Celtics when he's healthy. And so is Giannis. So those are the things.

This thing fell out of the sky where Giannis is hurt and Embiid's not 100%. And those are the two guys who are the best guys in the conference. So I don't know what else could happen for them. Would you say America has Celtics fever? I would not. I would not. I think Knicks Philly and Denver versus LeBron are going to,

are going to levitate above these other series. And some of these series are really good, but those two, if, if the Lakers can just split in Denver, that becomes such a fascinating one going back to LA. And then every Knicks Philly's game is going to be great. I can't wait for that series.

That Dallas Clippers series is going to be awesome, though. Is it? Yeah, because historically, I think there's been absolute shootouts. I asked somebody I trust, the Clippers, today, how are we feeling about Kawhi? And the person texted me back, terrible. I was going to ask you this.

Pretty robust roster of injured guys right now. If you were doing the injured guy draft, you'd have a really good team. Is that just luck? What are we talking about here? Well, one of the things I noticed, because when I was preparing for the

Rosillo pod, is how many guys had their highest minute level since five years ago, seven years ago? Durant was highest in 10 years. A lot of people played big minutes this year. And I don't know if that maybe has anything to do with it. Like Zion pulled his hamstring,

but he also played 71 games this year. I don't know if he'd done that before. Is it the 65 game minimum too maybe taking effect? Tiny bit, yeah, maybe. Well, I can't wait for Nick Sixers before we go though we have to do two minutes on Leo as Sinatra in a

Scorsese movie I didn't get a response to this text I was waiting for this I knew we were going to do in the pod I mean Sean as you know we've done this on the rewatchables and you guys make fun of me like Sinatra was the fucking coolest guy probably who ever lived the rewatchables and you guys make fun of me. Like Sinatra was the fucking coolest guy, probably whoever lived.

The coolest you ever walked. You made fun of me when I had the take, but it's true. The chairman. I didn't make fun of the take. I was only making fun of how impassioned you were about the take. Name me another celebrity in the history of America

that when somebody on SNL impersonated them, they called for their permission first. That's just never happened. That's a very specific requirement. Only person ever who was like, I just want to make sure it's okay with Celebrity X that I do this impersonation today. The chairman, man, he was rubbing shoulders with everybody. I love the idea of Daryl Hammond dialing up Al Gore and just being like, Al, just want to give you a heads up. I've got a thing. It's a lockbox thing. It's important. You got to know that's coming.

No, Frank is great. I love Frank. I was just recommending The Voice, the James Caplan biography, which is one of the great celebrity biographies ever written. Scorsese and Leo and Jennifer Lawrence as Ava Gardner. Yeah, I mean, I'm in.

I'm not totally sure this movie's happening. That story was like... There have been some discussions. There was no financing or studio. It was all kind of vague. So, I don't know. I'm not sure if it's real,

but I would take it in five seconds. I think for Bill, the key is to bring together these two Scorsese projects that are being publicized. So, Scorsese's other movie is a movie about Jesus. And I think what you probably would deeply satisfy you-

A buddy cop movie? No, well, okay. So we could do Christ and the Chairman, two guys, two buddy, two cops. Or what if Sinatra was Christ? So it's Leo as Sinatra as Jesus. And then we just kind of knock all the pieces down at once.

Let me ask you guys this. Is Leo skinny enough for Sinatra? He's too tall is the bigger issue. I don't think Sinatra. Leo's legit tall. He's like 6'2". He is. So they'd have to figure out that piece. I think he could carry that. Sinatra's all charisma.

Which Leo has a shitload of charisma. I think he could carry that. Sinatra's all charisma, which Leo has a shitload of charisma. I think he could get the hair down right. The singing, I don't know how they would pull that off. I've never heard Leo sing. Yeah, you have. You heard it in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, when he sang Behind the Green Door. Right.

But could he be a crooner? It's tough. I mean, you know, Frank, his nickname was The Voice. He is the greatest. If you gave Daniel Day-Lewis five years, he could nail it. He would go to lounge singer school. 70-year-old Daniel Day-Lewis as Frank Sinatra in 1953. See, the guy who blew this was Cooper. Oh, you think he could have done that?

Leonard Bernstein. Fuck that. He should have been on the Sinatra thing, learning how to croon for like four years. Oh, you think he could have done that? Leonard Bernstein. Fuck that. He should have been on the Sinatra thing, learning how to croon for like four years. Oh my god. The press tour would have been amazing. Better move. What happened was Todd Phillips never looked at him and said, I want

you to believe in yourself the way I believe in you. My favorite celebrity story of all time that led to a star sport. I'm in on any Frank Sinatra movie. As you guys know, one of my favorite HBO movies ever was The Rat Pack about Don Cheadle as Sammy Davis. I think Ray Liotta's Sinatra.

Montaigne is... Dean? Do you know? He's Dean. I can't remember who the other one was, but it's on YouTube and it's really good. It's, I think, one of. And it's really good. It's I think one of the high-end HBO ones. And I was always like, why is there more

Sinatra? What will you do if this Sinatra movie is three hours and four minutes? Well, I'll tell you this. If they announce it once and for all it's happening, then I promise I'll finish the last two hours of Killers of the Flower Moon.

Because right now on my Apple apple tv it's just stopped at an hour 23 it's just like frozen this pause button hour 23 what happens can you show me the frame where you checked out i'd love to know when you're like i'm good i don't need any more of this sounds like this guy's bad. Yeah. I came around on The Irishman. Yeah. That took some time. Well, I love... Maybe Flower Moon will happen.

I do love that this theory that I've seen someone else write, I can't take credit for it, but that, you know, he's got this trilogy of classic gangster movies. You've got

Goodfellas, Casino, and The Irishman. Goodfellas is like New York organized crime. Casino is the move to Las Vegas. The Irishman is the move into unions and the federal government. You've got the prologue with Gangs of

New York, the kind of birth of a kind of organized crime. And then Sinatra is the final piece. Sinatra is organized crime enters the world of entertainment and that it becomes this big final statement. I love that idea. So if that's what the movie is, that would be fantastic. I think I'm in. CR, Sean, great to see you guys. I'll see you on the rewatchables, I'm sure. We gotta get through Rock Bottom Month and then we're just banging out bangers.

The last movie of Rock Bottom Month should just be a live stream of me and Sean watching Nick Sixers together. That would be good. Game 7. We just run that as the pod. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you. Thanks, Bill. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research.

And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. Upper Canada College inspires boys from senior kindergarten to year 12 to find their passions and realize their potential. An IB World School, UCC offers a supportive environment,

cutting-edge facilities, and a best in Canada financial assistance program. UCC, a place where tradition, excellence, and innovation meet. Learn more at our open house events on October 15th and 16th. Register now at causeandeffect.ucc.on.ca. All right, my old friend Kevin Wilds is here. You can watch him on First Things First on FS1 every day, a show that is designed to have small-scale arguments that enrage me, as I told you. We're in the content game. I was thinking heading into the NBA playoffs.

We're going to do NFL later. There's a LeBron angle to this playoffs that if people have really talked about it, I haven't heard it in like a real way because it doesn't seem conceivable. And yet this is such a weird playoffs that who the hell knows. I was trying to walk through, I wanted to walk you through some what ifs in the NBA playoffs and the biggest what if for me, what if LeBon wins three straight rounds and makes the finals what happens to our whole sports talk slash content universe if lebron makes one last run a la brady on the

books i don't think it's gonna happen they're like almost four to one underdogs against the nuggets i think the nuggets are gonna beat going to beat them. But what if? How does it play out? Does he win these series cleanly? Or are there injuries or weird things happening? It doesn't matter. Do you remember who Brady beat heading to the Super Bowl? Because I don't.

I don't remember any of the playoff games at this point. It was two, three years ago. I don't remember who they beat. Like an aging Drew Brees. Yeah. It's like once the year's passed, nobody remembers. If he makes it, I'll answer your question with a question. Because we talked about how unfair

the expectations for a 39-year-old LeBron are. Do you think that if he made it all the way to the finals, knocked off the the expectations for a 39-year-old LeBron are, do you think that if he made it all the way to the finals, knocked off the reigning champs, and it's Lakers-Celtics, let's say, and he loses against a historically good margin of victory Celtics team, that people would actually hold that against him?

That the silver medal would actually be bad for his legacy, even though he would do something absolutely amazing. I like that. He somehow loses, even though something incredible happened. I don't. I think if he made the finals, he would have to go through Denver and the Jokic-Murray combo and a team that people think is built to win multiple titles, a lot love the Chiefs. He would then have to beat the winner of Phoenix, Minnesota. So either you're beating Durant, Booker, Beal,

or you're beating that Minnesota team that feels like a year away. The thing is, I actually like that they got Denver first because you got to play them anyway. Why not try to throw a haymaker at them right away? Denver hasn't played for a week. Who knows? You flip it. Game six is in LA. And so Minnesota Phoenix would be second. And then the last series would be OKC, Dallas, and Clippers. One of those three, whoever is left. So we know the Lakers can beat OKC. That's the one team on positive they can beat. They have too much size.

Clippers, let's say the Clippers somehow beat Dallas, but then what are the odds of Kawhi making it for a month and a half of basketball? Probably slim.

So there is a scenario where this could happen and I do feel like this is his last chance to shift the GOAT debate because everybody's already in their camps. Really nothing else can happen at this point.

People could be like, Michael Jordan's the best player ever, but LeBron had the best career ever. That's kind of where people are going to land. That's like a nice middle ground that nobody's mad at. Nobody's mad at that middle ground, but if he somehow makes the finals

and then, I mean, if he won the title, I think that swings the debate. That would swing the debate like I think that swings the debate. I think it would. That would swing the debate like a five, five rings versus six rings. You'd be like, well, I'll give it to the guy with five just because of the longevity and breadth of his career. Yeah, one ring away.

He basically played like eight more years than Jordan. It just opens up so much content. And it's kind of in play. I mean, it would be amazing. It's in play. Do you really think so? No, I think Denver's going to win. I do too.

I think they're done immediately. I just think they're cooked. He hasn't won in Denver in four years. Four calendar years is the last game he won in Denver. So if Denver takes care of home court, I don't see a path. I am wagering on Denver. I think they're going to win,

but I will say Denver, and I know you and I are probably the highest on Denver during the year. Like you were doing your Denver, nobody's beating them in a seven game series gimmick. I just think they're going to win. It's a branding opportunity. I think we're the highest you can be on a team.

And yet, last six weeks, there was some holes in the boat. There was some execution stuff in the last parts of some games that was atypical for them. They just started losing games they normally won, which was the one thing I always felt like, this is the thing they have. If you let them hang around, they win. They win in the last four minutes.

That's who they are. And then all of a sudden, they can't inbound the ball? Yeah. All of a sudden, Kyrie's hitting 20-foot lefty shots against them. And then, you know, they just lost a couple dumb games, which wasn't typically them. And then the Murray thing, too, the fact that he played 59 games.

They were clearly super careful with him as the season went along. Were they being cautious or something? Those are the things that worry me with the Nuggets. And then the Lakers piece of it, just like, let's be honest, they get a shitload of calls. They just do. They get more officiating calls. They just do. They get more officiating help than anybody in the league because

of the style they play. Plus, it's LeBron. He's the guy now who's going to get calls. I think they're a tough team to play. Do you buy... I tried to spin the Spurs loss into a positive. I used to like... And UConn just won everything this year. But I used to like, and UConn just won everything this year,

but I used to like losing the final game of the Big East tournament leading into the tournament. That's the wake-up call they needed. Don't take any team for granted. We can't inbound the ball. The Spurs came all the way back. Let's lock in now. They beat

Memphis. I think they want to sweep too. Although the Lakers now are the underdogs, but now the Lakers feel like the little team that could when it used to be the reverse. Mike Malone used to wear the underdogs. No one believes in us

jacket, but now I think Darvin Hamm can play that card. They can definitely play that card. I'm so confident. I'm so confident. I'm still confident. You know, what you just laid out is the 0-7 Pats. I wish they had lost the Monday night game against the Ravens theory.

Yep, yep. They just lose that game and the whole season becomes way easier. Instead, it becomes this march to undefeated, which by the time they got to the Super Bowl, the team was running on fumes in a lot of different ways the giants take advantage of it if you're just talking about i wish that team won the super bowl they're better off losing that monday night game i forget there

was two plays in the end zone there was like a pass interference that kept it alive then they scored on the next but like just they probably should have lost that game and it would have made everything easier the one thing with that spurs game, the Spurs just played really well. Like I felt like Denver was trying, you know, that if Murray missed a couple easy shots in the last minute, but they were executing and doing stuff and just a couple shots didn't go in. And then all of a sudden you have Devante Graham just in traffic,

fling a shot off the wrong foot that goes in. So the, the, the thing that if you're going to, if you're going to say this is stupid, the Lakers that goes in. So, the thing that, if you're going to say this is stupid, the Lakers have no chance. The thing that was shocking to me

about that New Orleans game, I think it was the first time I've ever seen LeBron in a must-win game where somebody else was like out, out-athleting him and overpowering him.

And now, it makes sense because it's year 21 for him. But wasn't it jarring to watch for like an hour there where it's like, oh my God. Like he, it was like watching Rocky III, like the first round when clubbers just, Rocky's never seen anything like it.

He comes back to the corner and he's like, I can't keep him off me. That's what LeBron felt like as Zion's just like a battering ram. Like when he knocked him backwards on that charge or whatever, LeBron, I haven't seen him get up like that ever. You know, in a real,

where he wasn't like trying to milk it for a call. So that was, there was a little bit of, hmm, this guy's, we kind of forget that he's a little older than maybe the stats. You know? The fact that he's 39, he's going up against the MVP, I think Joker's going to win the MVP.

And we're like, oh, this is a fair fight. Not really. It should easily be Denver, but he'll keep him in it. He plays so smart and he plays such a good, perfect mix of, he's still a great athlete, but he has played some he has some real old man basketball moves like he did up and under on zion it's just like a move

you would do like on your kids in the driveway like you've never seen this so he he's just brilliant out there so i think he's gonna get a he's gonna still keep them in it but i also you know all of a sudden the the altitude i love to play the altitude card in Denver too once you're going back and forth. It's a real thing. Yeah. And they let you know about it. So I still feel very confident,

although you called my prediction a gimmick. I still don't think any teams beat them. Well, when you tweet the same thing 38 times, I think it becomes a gimmick. Well, hello. It's, you know, Nike says just do it for 20 years. It's got to work. You got to get in people's heads. I like this low energy. We're taping

this before you do the show. Right now, I feel like I'm with Mahomes just throwing the ball around like an hour before the game. You don't want to peek now. You want to peek on live TV. I can feel it. So I used to do the pod when I was at ESPN,

we did the pod and I was just like, have my feet up. There was no video involved and I was very chill. And then I listened to the last pod we did. I was like in TV mode, which is a little bit brighter. Oh, so you reined it back. I like you.

So you studied yourself. Yeah. I had to watch the tape. I watched the all two of just me and you. And I'm like, oh wow, you're a little bit too fired up here. Bring it back. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll ramp it up. I got to watch this one. And I'm like, oh, Wilds, you're a little bit too fired up here. Bring it back. Maybe I'll

ramp it up. I got to watch this one. I like the energy now. Don't let, you know, this is pod Wilds, not TV Wilds. There's a what if with Zion because for an hour he became the Zion we've been waiting for for five years. There was a two-way game with him.

He's rebounding. He was actually really defending. And it was pretty much the most exciting non-Wemby moment of the season, I think. And it felt like they were going to win. Now he's hurt. And I just wonder, like, I know everybody talked about this yesterday, but I just wonder, is that like the ultimate microcosm of his career or should we be enthused? It's like maybe, you know,

we gave him so much shit in December for the in-season tournament, which he deserved because he was out of shape and overweight. He just was. It was December. There was no excuse for it. He shed the weight.

He got in shape. He really played well down the stretch. Sunday, he got his ass kicked by the Lakers. And then he responds in the playing game with this incredible game and it was like this is the guy this is why we were so excited in 2019 then he gets hurt

and I hope that's not the 30 for 30 where this is like the best moment of the 30 for 30 and then it's like we go to commercial and come back and it's like and then that's when things turned so I mean glass half full it's just a hamstring so it's nothing bad it's like, and then that's when things turned. So, I mean, glass half full, it's just a hamstring. So it's nothing bad.

It's, you know, he'll be able to bounce back from that next year. He played 70 games. The thing that I liked most besides him, just, you know, looking awesome.

Yeah. Is that other Lakers game. I think he took 13 shots or 12 shots, and he took 27 the other night. Like, dude, just be the man. Like, it's almost a part of him. He just needs someone to, like, gas him up before every game. Like, hey, by the way, you're fantastic. You're a great player.

Take the game over. And then he rolls through the occasion. That's what I liked. Besides just, hey, the shots go in, they don't go in. But the fact that he wanted the ball and wanted to take it to the Lakers and I'll play everybody's great. And really wanted to guard LeBron. That part was fun. I love the, the downhill stuff Zion was doing and watching LeBron have actual fear, which look, if it was 2013 LeBron, it's different. I don't, I don't think he's backpedaling as Zion's coming at him, but it was still just, you know, we spend so much time with these guys.

We watched it happen to Brady where there were just some moments in some of those later year Brady games when he was just dumping the ball to get rid of it because he didn't want to get hit. You know, you hit a different point in your career. But it was weird to see LeBron as the athlete. I mean, the only other person I think in the last 10 years who could have probably overpowered him was, was Giannis, but they never really played a big game against each other, you know?

So, you know, they had like ABC game shit like that, but not like real stakes like what we had the other night. So it was, to me, it was like, wow. It almost made me appreciate the LeBron era more because it was like, wow, I took for granted that he was always the most overpowering person in any game. You know, especially as he got older and he would just start kind of barreling to the basket whenever he wanted, which is a skill he still has this year.

But it was just weird to see him backpedaling. They drafted 16 years apart. Yeah. But they felt like peers in a way i mean there's also the idea that lebron he said some very complimentary things about zion after the game but part of me does think that he's still like he's not giving the torch to anybody and it felt like oh maybe zion will take the torch from LeBron. That was a conversation that I still think

the media has moved on from. But maybe he keeps in his sort of inspiration file or grudge file that he has to open up. LeBron's grudge file every once in a while. He has to be like, does Shawn Stevenson know? And he just keeps on going. He's like,

oh yeah, Zion will take the league over from LeBron. Hold uh, the Sean Stevenson. No. And he just keeps on going. He's like, Oh yeah, Zion. We'll take the league over from that. It's under W. Oh, Z's. I know it's back here. I forgot to put last names. The,

uh, I'm waiting for LeBron to just embrace Wemby as like the next guy. I think that's the best move for him. Cause it can't really happen until after LeBron's out of basketball. Basically when Wembley will hit the things. He can say he called it when it happened. And then if Wembley gets hurt, which is possible because 7-for-5, then he can say, well, what happened?

I just think there's no losses for LeBron. Just kind of anointing him as the next guy. Plus, it pisses off everybody else. It's a good move. I like that. I'll buy that. I also like LeBron going somewhere else after this year. Maybe not after this year, but

eventually. Do you think he's retiring in a Lakers jersey? I think everything's in play. If they get their asses kicked by Denver, in a weird way, we spend so much time talking about the Lakers, but yet there's stuff with this series that is... There's, there's so much good, there's so many good storylines with Brown 1

and this series has some like really juicy subplots, including what happens if they just get their asses kicked? Thank you. I tried to, you know, behind the curtain, I pitched this story today in the show and everybody got mad at me because, oh, wow, I'm already, I'm like, hey, do we want to do

what happens if this goes south for the lakers what it means for lebron is like no we can't go past the series wilds i'm like okay it would be good and we all know there is a scenario where they get their asses kicked dallas let's say Dallas makes the Western Finals. Maybe Dallas makes the Finals. Who knows? Dallas drafts his son with the 44th pick or they buy some pick or whatever. They're like, we now have your son. It's almost like basketball taken with Liam Neeson.

We have your son. You have my son? And now all of a sudden he's playing in Dallas with Luca. Because I do think if he switches teams, and we've talked about this before in the pod, but if he switches teams, it has to be for a title and to play with his son, the combo. It has to be a contender and the chance to play with his son.

That's the only way it makes sense. Otherwise, he stays here. But I don't think he's done. I mean, first of all, his shooting got better, and there was a good, Chris Herring wrote a good piece about why, like how he subtly changed some of his mechanics. So I think for

the fact that his three-point shot's better, I think he can go longer. But just the fact that they're in the conversation with the Nuggets, and that line isn't like Nuggets minus 800, it's pretty impressive. And they do have, you could say, two of the three best players in the series. I would personally, for the playoffs,

probably put Murray and Davis even because playoff Jamal is incredible. And Davis, every game, you think he's just going to limp off at any point. But you could make a case they have two, three. But they have two all-NBA players in the series. Denver has one. Yeah. Yeah, playoff

Jamal. I think, but, you know, three, four, and five, I'd almost give to Denver. I think everybody's averaging 20 points. I think in these games, in the last three games they played, I think everyone's averaging 20 points. I think

Michael Porter's averaging 20 points. I think Michael Porter's averaging 20 points. I think KCP's averaging 20 points. Maybe KCP only played one game. But I think it's far more balanced than anybody thinks, even though we are always focusing on Jamal. Well, there's one more storyline that you're going to make the wild

space and I don't want to comment on, but them catching Denver around one right after Michael Porter Jr.'s brother was involved in the biggest gambling scandal in 60 years. That's not nothing. That's his brother. There's no way that's not affecting him 2%. I don't know. I took

the opposite take on that. I think that's a fair question. Is that in his head? Or do you subscribe to the basketball as my escape once I'm in between the lines? I'm Is that in his head? Or is like, do you subscribe to the, you know, the basketball is my escape once I'm in between the lines. I'm totally locked in here and there are no effects. I kind of subscribe to that.

And not like I can't hit my open jump shots because my brother got banned from the league. But I can see if it goes south, that's going to be a storyline. You mean when I hosted the first episode of the Grantland Basketball Hour, even though I was coming off a three-week suspension, I didn't let it affect me. It was a good show. You were locked in? I was locked in. In fact, you were better.

I felt like I was zoned in. All right, we're going to take a break. And then the real reason you're here to talk about Bill Belichick. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Bill Belichick. ones financially, giving you the peace of mind to focus on what truly matters. Find their products through banks, credit unions, and associations, or visit SecurianCanada.ca. Securian Canada, insurance designed for life. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures,

one specially developed helmet, thousands of high-intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. All right. Big piece in ESPN. Seth Wickersham, Don Venetta, Jeremy Fowler wrote about Bill Belichick, why he didn't get a coaching job. And some of the stuff in there I knew, some of the stuff I didn't know.

The big question was why didn't the Falcons hire him? They landed on Raheem Morris, who I actually really liked as a coaching candidate. I thought he probably deserved it. If you're going to rank the kind of under 50 coaches, I think he would have been one or two. So I get why they picked him, even though it's like kind of crazy you don't hire Bill Belichick.

I was in the camp like, I can't believe people aren't lining up to hire Bill Belichick. And the piece laid out a lot of reasons why. One of which was Kraft undermined him with the Falcons. And that was like pretty emphatic that they were like, yeah, Kraft's friends with Arthur Blank, the Falcons owner. And he threw Belichick under the bus was the reporting. And it was multiple sources. And I'm trying to figure out how this got so acrimonious, but also why would craft not want him to coach the Falcons? Because if he got the Falcons job,

then craft has to pay him less. Right. Cause the money like they, it was reported. He owed him like 25 million. Yeah. So if the Falcons are paying him $15 million or whatever, then the Pats only have to pay him $10 million.

So Kraft had so much animosity to Belichick that he could have saved like $15 million. And he's like, you know what? Fuck this guy. I'm not letting him get this job. And does what he learned. How did this get so bad, Wilds? I don't understand it.

Do you think this makes it seem very bad? And it feels like through one lens that craft torpedoes, Belichick's chances, but through another lens, I tried to look at it optimistically. They're friends, Arthur blank and Robert craft. I didn't realize.

I think the article says they're like his closest friend in the league. And Arthur Blank calls his friend for a candid conversation. He's like, hey man, what do you think? What do you want?

If the conversation went like this, look, the guy won me six Super Bowls and increased the value of the franchise by hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars. But he's not friendly. He says he's not going to take over, but he probably will. And overall, he was a, you know, he's arrogant, which is obviously, I don't know if he's not allowed to be arrogant. No one on the planet's like Picasso, arrogant.

Like, yeah, man, that's part of it. And then Arthur Blank gets like five negative takes and realizes it's not worth it. Like the part about the being untrustworthy was, I tried to figure that out. So here's why I think untrustworthy was kind of the fulcrum point of the story. Belichick said he didn't need total control, right?

He was cool with just coaching. I don't actually believe that when he got into the building, he was just going to coach. And there's one part of this after what they talk about, Arthur Blank and Belichick are talking about how the Falcons did the contracts, right? And here's,

I'll just read it. Belichick asked why contracts didn't include off season bonuses to entice players to work out of the facility during the off season, an essential team building incentive in new England. He was told that's not what the Falcons have ever done. So he's like, by the way, I need guys in the building in the offseason. And whoever's going to tell him, well, it's not in the contracts, he's going to be like, we'll put it in the contracts. And then all of a sudden he's outside of, you know, the turf and he's into contract management contract. So there are already like, Oh, this guy's already starting. I don't even

have the job yet. He doesn't even have the job yet. He's already telling us what to do. Yeah. But also guess what? I know what to do. I've got eight Superbowl rings. I've got more rings than the entire NFC South. The score is six to3, and one of your NFC South rings is actually my protege. If he didn't go to the Bucs, it'd be 6-2. So yeah, I'm a little bit arrogant because you guys don't know what you're doing. Respectfully.

Could I have the job, please? Well, it's also, you know, the piece laid out something that I had heard and I think I'd even talked about on the podcast last month about the two guys who were kind of Arthur Blank's inner circle people, Fontenot and

Rich McKay. There's a job preservation element of this that we have both seen any place we've ever worked. There's certain people in a company that their job is just to get to the next month and they don't want any wins.

They don't want any losses. They're just thinking about the end game. How do I stay here? How do I keep my job? So Belichick, the threat of Belichick coming in and being like, yeah, I'll work with everybody. And then six months later, Arthur Blank's like, man, Belichick's been great.

Belichick's like, we got rid of these two fucking guys. They got to go. So those guys immediately have an incentive to sabotage Belichick because they want to stay with the Falcons, right? This is, as I get older, one of the things I've learned more than anything as a professional lesson. It is unbelievable how many people do what's best for them and their long-term kind of stability future versus what's actually makes sense for the place they work for. I've seen this everywhere I've been. And these guys were like, yeah, Belichick. I don't know. He's pretty arrogant. He's going to want to come here and shake stuff up. It's like, he's pretty arrogant because he's won eight Super Bowls.

That's one of the reasons he's arrogant. We've only had 56 Super Bowls. He won eight. I imagine it being a little bit like Bar Rescue. Like John Taffer comes in. He's like, what's going on at this place? Shut it down. This and that.

And then the owner of the restaurant asking the head bartender, he's like, hey, going on at this place? Shut it down. This and that. And then the owner of the restaurant asking like the head bartender, like, hey, what do you think about, what do you think about bringing in Taffer full time as the GM? He's like, ah, I don't know. He's going to want to be shutting it down all the time. Well, it's basically the first 20 minutes of Roadhouse, right?

They bring in Swayze and Swayze's like, I'm just here to observe. And everybody hates him. And then he's like, yeah, we're getting rid of the bartender. Getting rid of this guy. And everybody's mad at him. Can I tell you, can I swing this in another direction? Just another team. This one got me the most

upset. Oh, I want to go through all the teams. Okay. The Carolina thing is driving. Carolina. I'm going to come through the phone right now and jump at, I'm going to go crazy. Here's some things from the piece that just made me laugh. I'm just reading.

Washington owner Josh Harris, who'd spoken privately with Kraft about Belichick, told Confidence in early December that he respected Belichick, but wasn't going to hire him. He wanted the same leadership structure he has with Philadelphia 76ers and New Jersey Devils. A strong general manager over head coach. I just want to point out

Philadelphia's been a fucking mess the entire time Josh Harris has owned the team. They had the process. They had the Ben Simmons situation. They stayed with, what's his face, Brent Brown too long. They had the Brian Colangelo disaster. They gave Brian Colangelo power. How'd that go? They had, what's his face, Brent Brown too long. They had the Brian Colangelo disaster.

They gave Brian Colangelo power. How'd that go? They had, what's his face, Brent Brown was all of a sudden the coach GM for a little bit there. They brought in another coach. That team's been a mess. They've been philosophically a mess. They've catered to their players way too much. They did the James Harden thing.

If he's saying, here are my lessons from Philadelphia, I would maybe do the opposite of what he did there. I thought that was crazy. I can't speak for the Devils. Carolina decided to pass, a source said. This is from the piece. This drives me crazy. Panthers owner David Tepper often sifts through data

to critique his coach's play calling. That, according to sources, tough to do with Belichick as the figurehead. Carolina's been the dumbest team in any sport of this decade. He's like, could you imagine that? Could you imagine David Tepper like, hey, Bill, what did we do there on third and three? I didn't like the play call.

I ran the data on it. The fact that the Panthers were like, nah, we'll pass. It's whatever. I don't like the play call. I ran the data on it. The fact that the Panthers were like, nah, we'll pass. It's whatever. I don't know. That's insane. Well, but he shouldn't have wanted that job because that team is such a mess. He wasn't going to Carolina regardless. But I don't know.

I'm shocked that that got in the article. Tepper should have been like, I'll pay Belichick 30 million a year. Every single decision I've made has been horrific. And then it said, a conversation with Blank Craft delivered a stark assessment of Belichick's character.

The source quoted the Belichick sources saying Robert called Arthur to warn him not to trust Bill. That account was backed up by a close friend. One source close to Belichick said Kraft was a big part of why the Falcons passed on hiring him. That part was weird. There's also, there's two things that jumped out and I'm not criticizing the writers, but

this is, I really do think this is what most people feel. So they put this in the piece, and I just disagree with the premise. One, most team owners are loathe to grant a single person as much power as Belichick wielded in New England, even with his career results. Owners now value collaboration and cooperation among football operations, the coaching staff, and other team executives. Most reflect the fear and leverage that fueled New England's dynasty. The Pats won the AFC East for like 20 straight years, and they were either in the Super Bowl, winning the Super Bowl, or very close to winning the Super Bowl that entire time.

How is this now a bad way to run a team? I also think that the fear in leverage is what? They're not having fun. I always subscribe to the idea of Edelman. The winning is fun, but is the fear of getting cut?

Because for every story that is told, like, ah, Belichick traded... When we trade to the Bills and we lost immediately. that is told like, ah, Belichick you know, traded like, when we trade to the Bills and we lost immediately. Was it Ty Wall? Yeah, Laura Malloy. Yeah, Laura Malloy.

It's like, oh, that's brutal. It's a little bit of a get back. We did end up winning the Super Bowl that year. But there are nice stories of like, hey, Belichick made sure I got my bonus. Belichick kept me on the roster for this. Those stories don't get as much of as the other stories.

Belichick keeps the coaches maybe a little bit too close so they don't have to move their family all over the place. Once you're in, he'll make sure you're in. He's not a, I don't know, is he an emotionally cold guy? Maybe, but I think that's part of the salary cap that you have to be a little bit colder. But I don't think it's fear. He ran the process, he ran the whole team on fear

and people are afraid of that now. I don't know. It feels like an oversimplification. I'm not mad at the writers at all, but I feel like the Patriot way has been painted with a stern brush and everyone's like, oh, that's what it takes. but I feel like the Patriot way has been painted with a stern brush and everyone's like,

oh, that's what it takes. Well, this was one of the big misses with the documentary and my, my biggest issue. There's so many issues with the documentary and how slanted it was toward Belichick and then craft pretending afterwards. Oh,

I didn't realize, um, it's called the dynasty. They skip over the second and third Super Bowls to probably spend five minutes on them. And if your whole concept is how did this team become a dynasty and then how do they keep it together, which is the premise allegedly of what the doc was. They never explained how the dynasty became the dynasty. And the way to understand it is the second and third Super Bowls. And the reason they didn't emphasize those is because

the most important reasons they won the first three Super Bowls were defense and coaching and innovation and then Brady. And Brady's either three or four on that list. It was the defense and it was the coaching were the two biggest reasons they won. They literally changed

the rules to try to prevent some of the shit the Patriots were doing. But there was a cutthroat nature how he ran the team. That was the single most interesting thing about it. They had it with Bledsoe in the documentary about that decision he made where he basically cuts Bledsoe's throat and keeps Brady. It's like, man, that's harsh. Even Bledsoe now seems kind of torn on it. Then they did it with Laura Malloy.

He also did it with Richard Seymour. Over and over again, he's like, how do you get these guys to play hard for you, to care about winning while they also know he's cutthroat and he'll get rid of you the moment you're not as useful to him? And that was like, I wanted a half hour on that and instead I'm getting a half hour on Matt Castle after Brady tore his ACL.

And I think that's what was so frustrating about the documentary for so many people. It's like, how did he build this when everybody knows the players are disposable to him, but they still played hard for him. What's going on here. And even when you listen to the players talk about it afterwards, you know, so many of them were upset about the documentary and the,

they wouldn't even go all the way. Like none of them were like, I fucking love Bill. He changed my life. I love that guy. They were just like, he was an amazing coach, right? He did the stuff he built and you're not supposed to like your football coach, which to me is the ultimate lesson of the Belichick era. You're not supposed to like your football coach. He's not your buddy. And that galvanizes the team. They're like that galvanized everybody. This is every sports movie we've ever watched. Do you think that

there's a bit of a dynasty credit grab going on? Where post-Brady Super Bowl, Brady got the lion's share of the credit, even though he got second year, Brady's all of a sudden getting credit for building everything. Belichick's kind of...

At that point, Belichick was far back, far down the credit list. And now he's slowly rising up. And then Kraft all of a sudden is like, hey by the way, like I held this whole thing together. I think the credit grab is strange. It's very rear view mirror. And I think the fans are far less interested in the credit grab of the last two decades than the future of the team. But it feels like people really want credit now.

And it's really driving craft. Well, I think because it's been Brady or Belichick, Brady and Belichick and craft, it's like, oh, well, he's the owner. And it seemed like the whole purpose of the book and the documentary was to prove it was the three of them together. And it was like, I had to work so hard

to maintain the relationship. I just don't believe it. I three of them together. And it was like, I had to work so hard to maintain the relationship. I just don't believe it. I don't believe it. The football coach is 365 days a year. He's in the bunker doing stuff. Brady's doing his thing. And those guys are driving the team. And the owner, like, I just don't think

you can have that kind of an impact in the same way. You can basically, you can tell them, here's how much money you have to spend, or I veto this deal, because I'm the owner, which it seems like really, he only did that one time with the Garoppolo Brady stuff,

but for the most part, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, the culture of the team, how much of that comes from the executive office, how much of it comes from... It doesn't seem like the culture was that great.

They just bombed in these organizational reports that they had about all the different facilities and how the players' families are treated. Those things are rough. They sure are effective, though. Yeah. You get an F on that, like, all right, we're fixing the gym right now.

We're getting daycare services. Right. It's one of the most effective reports I've ever seen. People jump on that like, all right, we're fixing the gym right now. We're getting daycare services. It's one of the most effective reports I've ever seen. People jump on that immediately. Well, the part I don't get is if Kraft was such a big part of this, why was Brady always taking a discount

to quote unquote win with the Patriots but then we weren't spending enough money anyway? Whereas every other quarterback has been like Brady made less money than he should have made. And since every other quarterback has been like, Brady made less money than he should have made. And, and since every quarterback has been like, all right, cool. I really want to win, but I'll also be taking the 50 million a year or the 55 million a

year. Like Brady didn't. And then they had this moment where they just could have paid him retroactively. And that, that seems like the big Belichick craft chasm. And that's where I think Belichick can really get dinged. Like, why didn't you just pay Brady three years, a hundred million? He was like, he was so afraid of getting old with Brady.

It seemed like it colored all the decisions. Here's one other thing I wanted to point out from the article, because this is another thing that Belichick gets dinged on. You'll have to start over again, said a source with firsthand knowledge of the Eagles thinking. This was another team that passed on him.

Who would replace him? He hasn't had a good record of developing coaches. They were afraid that he'll have changed everything and every person, then you'll be starting from scratch again. He didn't demand those changes, but they felt like if we hire him, we have to give everything to him

and trust how he does it. Why does Andy Reid, Andy Reid, Andy Reid's thought one way and Belichick's thought another way. Like, do you think Andy Reid has a great coaching tree? Because there were guys from the 2000s where he did.

But let me give you the 2010s Andy Reid. Doug Peterson, who worked with him in the 2000s, but became a coach in 2013. Sean McDermott, Matt Nagy, and Eric Biennemi, who couldn't even get hired. For the last seven, eight years, there's been no hot rising chief's assistant, at least

that I could find, that got a job. Belichick's had Brian Flores, Gerard Mayo, who just got the job, Bill O'Brien, Josh McDaniels, who got hired for big money twice and just didn't do well. Joe Judge. It wasn't Belichick's fault. The Giants were like, we like the Pat special team's coach. He's young, but who knows? And Patricia. But it's like this whole thing about Belichick has to build a coaching tree. It's like, I don't know, man. He worked with Nick Saban. Yeah, that worked. Yeah, that seemed like Nick Saban kind of worked. But it's a weird one that Reid,

and then it's like Belichick. Why doesn't Reid take shit for some of this stuff? What about the Rasheed Rice thing this month? What about the stuff with his sons? It's like people seem to pick and choose what arguments they want, whether somebody's a good guy or a bad guy or a good coach, bad coach.

I just don't get it. I feel like the Belichick coaching tree thing is a little bit... I don't know. It's an odd way to judge success. How did your assistants do it? I think in the article it says that perhaps his coaches

were better soldiers than generals. It's definitely the case for McDaniels. I think that's fair. If Josh McDaniels had never left, there was an argument also that maybe Belichick, and maybe this is arrogance, maybe this is the opposite. Maybe this is actually just being a nice guy.

Should he have fought harder to keep his assistants? And the brain drain, I was talking to Man Genie's on the show, and Genie was like, a lot of brain power left the building with Josh. Yeah. So what are you going to do with your bail check?

Say you can't go, you can't go make more money, advance your career? You don't want to do that. At the same time, you're going to be like, hey man, I kind of need you here. I think when you have success, people poach the people that are close to the top person who's not going to leave. And that's just what happens in every walk of life. You saw it happen with Philly last year. Philly made the Super Bowl. They took both coordinators. And then one of the reasons they didn't do well last year

because they had different coordinators who weren't as good. And they replaced the defensive coordinator during midseason. And, you know, it's hard. And coordinators are a big part of what happens. You asked, did this make you want to take the under on the Falcons? Oh, yeah. There's one quote in there. Do you have the quote?

The source close to Belichick said the coach had concerns about the Falcons roster and would have needed his most trusted former assistants to execute a quick turnaround. Now I think this was pre-Kirk Cousins, but it felt like a little nugget. Like, oh, Bill doesn't like the Falcons. Do you think Belichick will ever be

a good NFL head coach again? We'll end the segment on that question. Because my answer is yes. Yes. I think that this latest media turn that he's going to do is going to be great for him. I think everyone's going to be like, wow, this dude really knows what he's talking about.

There'll be more accolades. He'll be back in the public eye in a big way, showing a side of him that's funnier and a little bit softer and accomplished. It's not just going to be the same old gruff, we're on to Cincinnati, public persona. Some owner or executive group is going to fall in love to him

and fall in love with him and say, you know what? This is our guy. The question is, does his style, could it ever be a Doc Rivers situation? Could something be going south mid-season? He just comes in like week nine?

I mean, to me, that's... Is that out of the question? Is how an NFL team's set up too layered to have that even remotely work? The reason, I mean, one of the many reasons I think he's the best coach ever is he never really had a system and could always adapt to whatever

the players in the team were good at for that year, right? And I think that's one of the reasons the coaching tree maybe wasn't what it could have been because every year they changed what they were doing. So if you're a head coach leaving that, it's not like, right. All right. I'm taking the run and shoot offense. And then I'm going to bring it to this team. And he just, every year it was like, oh, well, we have a really good defensive line this year. Our linebackers aren't that good. So I'm going to do this. I feel like on the fly, he could come in and, and at least like

upgrade a little bit. But I mean, that could be a bad example because he went 500 with the bucks. I'd be very nervous. If I got caught, if I was coaching a team, I called to the owner's office and like, Hey, you know, we're, uh, we're two and four. Uh, you know, we've got the buy coming up. We're thinking about bringing in Belichick as a consultant, you know, again got the buy coming up. We're thinking about bringing Belichick as a consultant. You know, again, it's just to help you out on, you know, some bring up, bring down the penalties a little bit. Just have another, you know,

have another brain there for you to draw. Yeah, that's not happening. Oh, no. Well, also it's like, oh no. Now it's the greatest coach of all time, but he's just like kind of a guy at the table down the side. Like nobody's wants that. That's, that's too intimidating.

I think he's, I'd still think he's going to be a good coach. The question for me is, is that it really feels like Belichick, the GM hurt Belichick, the coach the last five years. And that's just, I will always believe that. I just think he made bad moves and that's what, he did bad kicker. They had a bad quarterback situation. He assessed the Mac Jones thing terribly with how he had the coaches around him. And I'm sure that stuff he'd want to do over.

We don't have a wide receiver one. I could keep going. I was about to defend Mac Jones. Didn't really have a laugh tackle. All right. We'll come back with half-baked ideas. allergies. There's so much of you in your heritage to discover. Don't wait. Ancestry DNA kits are on sale now for a limited time. Visit ancestry.ca for details. Terms apply. All right, half-baked ideas. We've been doing this since Grantland. I don't remember what was the first time we did it on a podcast, but it's been, I should look that up actually. I wonder if it's been like 15 years of half-baked ideas. It's a long time. I would think that one of these things would have

to come true by now. You started coming out in like 2009, 2010 range. Well, I think the closest we ever came to hitting one was the real life, how leap years should be the purge. No, that was not close. Yeah, that was close. I still feel like that's going to happen. That's not close. No, that's going to happen. feel like that's going to happen. That's not close. No, that's going to happen. That was yours. Don't rule it out. All right, what do you got for half-baked?

All right, so this is the NFL draft. This is the simplest idea in the world. Michael Penix, 40-yard dash, 4'5", 1". Vertical jump, 36 1⁄2". Hey, how fast does he throw the ball? Does anybody know? Does anybody know how fast does he throw the ball? Does anybody know? Does anybody know how fast Drake May throws the ball? How far?

You want like miles an hour? I just want something. I gotta know the spin rate and the exit velocity and the launch angle of every baseball in like double A. But in the NFL draft, you'd be like, Drake May, big arm. what does that mean

big arm right look at this throw like how am i supposed to judge that and then we're shocked when these guys don't work out there's there's too much tangible data in baseball and there's too little in football we're still at like the Jonah Hill, Brad Pitt around the conference table. Like, ah, you know what? We took Jaden Daniels out to dinner. Okay. How was that? He took him to San Elmo's.

He had shrimp cocktail. The way he ordered with such authority. I'm like, is that what we're doing? That's really happening. Oh, they're taking Caleb out to a steak place. Oh, Drake Mays visiting Foxborough. They're going to take him out for dinner. What are we learning?

There's just a lack of data around the ball flying through the air that I think is. Well, they like to do the accuracy where it's like he did this pro day. It's only four inaccurate passes. There were no defensive players in the field. What's going on? If a guy drops the ball, it's just weird. It's just strange that there's so many variables. We can't get just a little bit of data on spin rate.

Like there's like a minor league, a friend of mine is a kid's a minor league pitcher. And he's like, he's striking striking guys out but he couldn't get called up because like his spin rate was too low they're like yeah i know you're having success getting guys out but your spin rate's too low at least that's what he talked like okay so that's just like the data's really in it that man you can't the revolutions per minute is not working i've got no idea does mac jones have a noodle arm? I don't know. He was airing it out in Alabama and then he got there

and he couldn't air it out. It's just some baseball data into football. I really like it. Like with stats and like zones and different colors and numbers and he throws 20 yard throws. It's 109

miles an hour, like whatever. Just put an air tag on the football. Like, let's start there. Just tape an air tag to the nose of the football and have somebody throw it and tell me how it's going. I like it. Simple half-baked. What's the next one?

This is really a business question for you. It's less creative and more just a need that I have. Since you're a podcast expert, This is really a business question for you. It's less creative and more just a need that I have. Since you're a podcast expert, can I get a wine sampler podcast where there's like not, have I asked you this before? I just want someone to actually do it. Like a sports center for podcasts

that there's nine basketball podcasts I want to listen to and I don't have nine hours. Is there some business? Why can't I get a bunch of five-minute pods chopped up like SportsCenter used to do for highlights? It still does it, obviously. But can I get five minutes of Zach Lowe, five minutes of you, five minutes of yourself?

And I'll take, you know what? 10 minutes for you because you're the boss. 10 minutes for you, five minutes or so. Just want a little bit of a bunch of pods, but is there some like me? I don't know why that can't happen. I might just do it myself and wait to get sued, monetize it myself. Just like, all right, here it is. I'll just host it. I'll just be like, and here's the bill on the Warriors. Take a listen. And I just lay out. It's almost like a talk soup, but the clips would be four minutes long. So what's the title? Uncorked for five? It's not uncorked. It's the wine sampler. That would work. That would 100% work.

I'm switching to wine. I know you're five minutes from basketball sampler, but I'm going right to one. I know you're five minutes from basketball sample, but I'm going right to one. You remember Ben Stein's money? When Ben Stein's money? Yeah. Remember, you have to be in an isolation chamber and you couldn't hear anything. You'd have to put the earphones on so you couldn't hear anything that was happening. Yeah. What do you think about field goal kickers? Instead of being in the game, they're just in a booth, large booth.

And they've got no clue. They don't know time score situation and they've got their little net and they've got the holder in there and they're just kicking. They're just kicking, kicking. And then eventually, you know, a light will come on. It'll be a green light will come like, oh, it looks like it's time to kick. They come out. They would have to be disciplined enough not to look at the score. Maybe they have earplugs in or whatever, and they just kick.

So there's no pressure where it's a pressure free environment. They've got no idea whether it's a big kick. When you look at guys who are freezing up, they all can kick. It's really just a mental game. So can I make it the environment, remove the pressure literally by keeping them, you know, in a little.

So that's like spring football league. Treat it like a game show. Like who wants to be a millionaire? What do you mean? What's the Spring Football League called? The UFL? Yeah, UFL. They have the kickers just in the back. It's not super exciting,

but I think it would be effective rather than the kicker having to sit there and be super stressed out. You know what would be effective? Coming back from commercial and they just split screen the two kickers and their soundproof stages just working on their kicks. They're just doing nothing. It'd be pretty boring. And then they would just come out. I don't know. I'm going to kick one. Oh, did that win the game? I'm not sure. I've been in here for a full day. It also starts to... See, I think they should know the score.

They come out and they're like, and it's like, let's get Bob's reaction when he finds out that it's 24, 24 with three seconds left. Bob comes out and he's like, oh shit, this is for the game. That's the opposite of what I want. I don't want that at all. So you want these guys to run out and not even look at the score. They just, they have to like stare straight ahead. Every kicker can make 70-yard kicks

when they're warming up, when there's no pressure. And some guys, Justin Tucker gets better. Chiefs kicker, Butker gets better with the stress. Most guys don't. So the half-baked flip is we need to figure out a way

to have kickers not know something about the game. But I don't know how when they come out they wouldn't see it. You'd have to be locked in. Or if it's a home game, you can turn off

the scoreboard. I mean, you basically have to blindfold them until they're on the field. But even then, you can see the score over the top. They shouldn't look at that. They should be locked in on kicking the ball. Maybe they can be driven out in a little golf cart and go away. If they want to look at it, sure. I'm just saying there's probably a great kicker who's just too nervous

and would benefit from the kicker isolation chamber. I have a half pick for you before your next one. Okay. If you notice how NBA refs, there's just too many of them. Like too many new ones. No, there's just like every year it's like, oh, there's 20 refs I've never seen before because they're just throwing people in. So if they're doing this, why not just have more refs in the game? Why don't we have four

refs? Why don't we just have less running with the refs and everybody, you have one ref underneath the basket, one ref underneath the other basket, two at midcourt who kind of move up and down. And the ones under the basket are more like linesmen like in football like they're like the goal line judges and then the other two refs are just moving up and down covering like everything from three-point line to three-point line we have four refs not three sure this caused more fouls or less fouls i think if you're a ref you want to call fouls that's what i'm there for everybody was mad that the celtics didn't get any, like, didn't they get literally zero calls the other day?

Yeah. I feel like the refs should have been applauded. Like, you know what? We just kind of played. That was great. But if I'm a ref, I'm going to call a lot of fouls. Like, why are you out there? I have one more half-bake for you. Go. That was an easy one.

That's adding a ref. That wasn't... No, adding a ref, but different concept. We have the two main refs. They're going up and down the sideline. And then we have the two kind of junior refs. They're just underneath the basket. They don't move. They're just there next to the cameraman.

They're goal line judges. They have less responsibility. They're just kind of there to get a feel for all the stuff like around the paint and whether somebody stepped out of bounds. What do you think about a very far away ref? Like the last row. Like an offensive coordinator, like with binoculars?

Yeah, it's like it's only a foul. It's like, I don't know, it looked like a foul from here. Like sometimes you can be too close to the action, I think. Either stuff looks, you're like you're too in it. Just like, I don't know. I'm in row section 206. It didn't look like a foul from here. And if it doesn't look like a foul from here, it was probably fine. Yeah, he's like the voice of the fan. What's your next one? I mean, this one's a really bad one. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever said.

You know, the algorithm always knows, like, oh, it looks like you want to go on vacation. And they started like, what about this hotel somewhere? Like, oh, how'd you know that algorithm? The algorithm started feeding me like, like YouTube videos, like how to escape a headlock. I was like, what? Well, like how to defend yourself from a knife attack. I'm like, what's going to go on with me in the future here? So I started to get very nervous about having to defend myself in a fight. I said, I'm not really built for that. I'm going to pass that. And I understand that sometimes fistfights are presented as a good alternative to conflict

resolution than super actual violence. I still think it's too violent, but sometimes you want to express some dismay, uh, uh, with, with no, with no physical interactions. Yeah. What do you think about normalizing throwing eggs at people? Like I get an egg thrown at me, like in traffic, you just have like a thing of eggs. normalizing throwing eggs at people. Like I get an egg thrown at me.

Like in traffic, you just have like a thing of eggs. So there's not like, I've seen YouTube guys get out of the car and start punching each other. Like, man, everybody relax. Just throw your egg at the guy and call it a day. It's kind of silly.

Everyone laughs it off. They get in the car and go away. I think it could actually help. So you're saying get rid of road rage, replace with eggs. Get rid of road rage. A lot of these fights in the stands that end up going viral, I never think those are...

I guess the eggs having an expiration date would be the problem here. If you keep getting new eggs. You just have an egg in your pocket. And if you have an issue with someone, rather than having real violence, you just get hit with an egg. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I probably deserve to have an egg. I cut somebody off on accident. I thought it was two lanes. It was one lane. The guy's giving me the middle finger. He's mad at me.

I'm like, buddy, you know what? I'll roll down my window. Hit me with that egg, dude. I deserve it. I wasn't paying attention. You get the egg thing? You know what? You got me. I deserve that one. I certainly didn't want the guy to be so mad he jumped out of his car. Like, buddy, right here. Scramble me up.

What you laid out when you were talking about the algorithm is something I've been thinking about a lot, where the algorithm assumes you like certain things because you might have watched one video and you shouldn't have. And for me now, I want to like, I want to hit the algorithm and be like, can I not, can this not be in the algorithm anymore? Like somehow tsunamis is in my algorithm now. And I'm just like, I don't want to see tsunamis in my Instagram reels.

How do I get out of this? Can I, can I, but cause I made the mistake of watching one on a reel. Now I'm just getting fed that. How do I get the road rage videos? I don't want those anymore. So I wish you could just go into Instagram or whoever. They just had a thing where you could search for the top 50 things. The algorithm is like, he likes this, he likes this. And you could just be like, no, no,

I'm actually going to get out of that. I'm out. I'm always defending myself. Just give me more 80s dunks. Less tsunamis. More 80s. Can we up the 80s dunks? Yes.

Can I have more 80s dunks and more NBA altercations? Can you put that in instead of road rage? I just want cool passes. That's what I want. What's your last one? Last night, Just want cool passes. That's what I want. What's your last one? Last night, the Sixers comeback literally started.

I forgot who missed the free throws and everybody got free Chick-fil-A. There's got to be a way to energize the crowd or incentivize the crowd. With more things. There's got gotta be more. Right. I mean,

it's gotta be, you know what, if we can get this, it's crunch time, free sodas, figure out what the, what, how much drinks and chicken sandwiches and hot dogs cost.

And is that less than winning, going to the Eastern conference finals and then just make the food free? So what about like a 40-point quarter? Just cross the board in NBA. If a team's about to hit 40 points, everybody gets like a soda. Yeah. It's also an energy thing, though.

Like the crowd has to be into it. You know what I mean? So like the crowd has to start it. What about half-court shot? Just chicken. Half-court. But you don't want guys taking half-court shots. No, at the end of the quarter. into it. You know what I mean? So like the crowd What about half court shot? Just chicken. Half court? Well, you don't want guys taking the half court shots. No, at the end of the quarter.

If it goes in, half court shots, chicken for everybody. Even if you take it. It doesn't even need to go in. Just take it so guys aren't preserving their shooting percentage. That's what I mean. So now people be mad when people don't take the half court shot because there's chicken at stake.

Yep. Small sodas. Oh, you want a pretzel? Good news. Get a steel, get a pretzel. Dive on the floor, get a... I like this. You're right.

There should be more incentives. When Boban intentionally missed the free throw at the end of the Clipper game, that was like one of the most funny moments of the year. It was great. I have a quick half-bake for you. Oh, good. So women's basketball, incredible run, right?

Mm-hmm. We've, 18 million people watched the final. 3.1 million people watched the WNBA draft. Like, shit's happening. Yeah.

Caitlin, this is a moment. There's been a lot of things leading to this, but now stuff's really happening. And there's discourse and like, I actually cared

who the Sparks took at two and four. I'm like, oh, they passed Cardoso? Can't believe that. Would have taken her at two. I've had opinions. There's this other piece now that all the major sports have that the WNBA doesn't have yet,

which is conspiracies. There's nothing about the way we do with NBA. Like, why did Michael Jordan get suspended for gambling? Don't know. What happened with the decision?

Yeah, I've always heard some stuff. I'm going to start a WNBA conspiracy. Oh, dang, this is... I think they fixed

the lottery for Kaitlin Clark to go to Indiana. Huh. I'm not going to say whether I believe this or not. I think they fixed the lottery for Caitlin Clark to go to Indiana. Huh? I'm not going to say whether I believe this or not. I just want to put it out there. So they had, they had the most lottery lottery,

whatever. They had like a 44% chance. So they're favored to win it. Okay. But she wanted to go there because her boyfriend, I think works for the Pacers. So if you were just saying on a, first of all, everyone thought she was coming out in 2025. All of a sudden she's coming out in 2024. Hmm.

Boy, it'd be nice if, who would you want to go to? I'd love to go to the Indiana fever. That would be my dream pick. Oh, look at this. They won the lottery. Now she's coming out. I don't know. Check some boxes for me. Conspiracy Bill is here to help the WNBA.

They fixed the lottery for her. You know what? It's the old Patrick Ewing. Yeah, the frozen envelope. This is it. Conspiracy. You got to start there, I guess. I'm not going to come to LA.

Not everyone wants to go to LA, but it's a good conspiracy starter. And I like your take of like conspiracies are good for sports. It's not bad. It's not a bad start. Next year, Juju Watkins, USC, grew up in LA, went to USC because she wanted to stay in LA. I wonder who's going to win the lottery. Conspiracy Bill is already calling it. The LA Sparks are going to win the lottery.

Juju is going to be in LA. It's happening. This is what we need. This WNBA needs crazy takes and theories and people arguing about weird shit. That's how we know they made it. Conspiracy Bill's back. Conspiracy builds back. Conspiracy builds back. Kevin Wilds, great to see you.

Watching our First Things First, which you can hear on Sirius as well. And it's a podcast. Yeah, good to see you. Nice, thanks. Good seeing you. All right, that's it for part two of the podcast. Don't forget about part one.

But thank you for this one to Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy, and Kevin Wilds. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti for producing. As always, don't forget you can watch videos and clips from this on youtube.com slash Bill Simmons. And I will see you on Sunday night with Priscilla. Until then, have a good weekend. I want to see them on the way. So I don't have. Must be 21 plus 18 plus DC and present in select States. I don't have to wait. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 809 with it in Indiana, 800-522-4700, or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 877-770-STOP in Louisiana, mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland,

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