The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 2: The Official CP3 Appreciation Pod With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

In Part 2 of the two-part Sunday podcast, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Chris Paul and the Suns bouncing the Nuggets from the playoffs, why this Suns team is the perfect fit for Chris Paul, how this season ranks among “old-guy title runs,” and more (3:00). Then they discuss the Clippers’ blowout Game 3 win over the Jazz, best Finals narratives, Hawks-76ers, and more (52:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com as well as The Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one of the two-part extravaganza with Priscilla, which feels like it happened a million years ago, we talked about Nets Bucks. We did our top 40. Just an exercise. We weren't saying it's an official list, but it was an exercise. Now we just watched Suns Nuggets. This is going to be part two. Me and Priscilla coming up first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're silo is here.

Um, I imagine this is what you would look like after like your grandson graduates from college or something. It's just, you're, you're just beaming. I'll just give you the floor. I have a lot of thoughts, but you take the floor. It's Chris Paul appreciation that you go. We all know how much I love him. You know, I've said how frustrated maybe as much as any single player. I mean, it's kind of funny that, you know, my all-time favorite athlete is Charles Barkley,

and he came up short, and he has to hear about it all the time. I think it clearly hurts the appreciation of how special a player he was. And if you look at this generation's players, I mean, you know, other than Steph, it's probably Chris Paul. And yet Paul, you know, for a bunch of different reasons, some his, a lot having nothing to do with him, just coming up short. And so now to get back to the Western Conference Finals,

second time since Houston, and that loss to Golden State in that series and he got hurt, it just, I don't know, man. I feel like you watch a guy for as long as we've all watched him and I know how special he is, how smart he is, how he just plays the position differently than I think anybody else in the league does. And yet, with the rings culture, it's like, nah, but I can't appreciate him. And I also kind of get it.

You know what I mean? Like, I get some of the counterarguments. It wouldn't be just fans and media. Like, I've heard from other guys and teams, like, oh, you know, he's tough to play with over the course of the year, the way he plays. That's why they keep losing the playoffs. And I just, like, refuse to believe it. So, you know, look, they're in the Western Conference course of the year, the way he plays. That's why they keep losing the playoffs. And I just like refuse to believe it. So, you know, look, they're in the Western Conference Finals. They still have a lot of work to do.

But to see him play basically flawless basketball for four straight games is just a reminder, I think, of people kind of going, oh, yeah, this is why Rosillo loves him so much. Well, we did the Book of Basketball podcast about him. What was that? Six, seven months ago and talked about the conundrum of this guy is on paper. One of the best point guards of all time. And we, we both hate rings culture, but at the same time, you, you're going to come away from his career asking the question, well,

why didn't this translate to a title? Why didn't this translate to a finals appearance? And we broke it down. We went through everything. I don't think either of us anticipated when we did that podcast that he hadn't found the perfect team for him yet. You know, and it's weird to think somebody could be in the league since 2005 and played with some really good players. But this is the team that has brought out all the best pieces of him. And I think the game he played tonight, I've seen a lot of good Chris Paul games.

That was up there with one of the most dominant performances he's had. He had everything cooking. He had the mid-range game. He's getting guys involved. He's doing the whole thing. And you talked about the difficult to play with part. You know, maybe that's a piece of this, where now that he's the old guy,

now that he's been in the league for this long, now that he's playing with guys who grew up watching him, it resonates a little differently, right? Than it did for maybe Blake Griffin in 2013. But Griffin was like, I was on this team first. Wait, don't you're telling me what to do? Like he clashed with some of those dudes. He's not going to tell James Harden what to do. It seems like he's in the right spot.

And I got a little emotional watching him hug Monty Williams at the end there because, you know, we've seen these teams get thrown together over the years. This is a team that it was authentically built. They made a lot of smart decisions and they really, really leveraged this great relationship that he had with Monty Williams. And it just seems like this is a team that pulls for each other. The chemistry is very Spurs-like. It feels very Duncan Popovich-y, the way the guys, you know, even like when Evil Jokic for a second there

did that foul. And the whole team kind of came in to protect their guy. And, you know, this has turned out to be Chris's masterpiece. You know, it took a while. I think they're going to make the finals. They're peaking at the perfect time.

But with Chris Paul, as always, you never know. We've seen the rug get pulled out from under him before, and it's hard not to think about that, right? Yeah, I imagine that's probably why he's been getting so emotional. You know, he's been emotional towards the end of this year and then, you know, getting through the Lakers and to sweep a Denver team that I think when you looked at them, you go, okay, this isn't surprising. They had a good record after the All-Star break.

They still had a good record when Murray went down April 12th. They were actually a much better defensive team after the All-Star break than even Phoenix was. There's so many times at Denver where I feel like, all right, can I really trust them to get stops? Do they really play that great of defense? And it was weird because Phoenix actually slipped quite a bit defensively in the second half of the season, which seems crazy now because you're right, Bill. They're so locked in.

And, you know, it's kind of that Nets conversation we're having, you know, even when they were healthy. And now it looks pretty devastating with the two injuries, Kyrie and Harden. But, you know, growing up watching basketball, we'd like to think that there's something great about teams that all understand each other. Yeah. The chemistry thing is real. You know, it's like a band that's played together for years, basketball at its best. That's

what it is. And it was like the nets were going to just spit in the face of this concept. And if they were healthy, they very well may have won this whole thing. And still, you know, we don't know yet, so you can't completely write them off. But when I watch Phoenix, they're the most locked in, consistent team, knowing exactly who they are, what everyone's supposed to do. I don't even think it's debatable. I mean, even Milwaukee gets stagnant and weird. You know, Philly has good moments. I think offensively against a really good team,

we'll have to see how they look closing a game. Utah's had Conley out of the series. They had Mitchell out for long stretches. The Clippers, you know, have had all sorts of guys missing games. So when you think of the thing that you're supposed to love with basketball and everybody knowing how to play off of each other, Paul orchestrates it, but it's a great collection. I mean, it's such a nice starting five because you go, okay,

this guy does exactly this. And like where other players feel like they disappear. I don't ever feel like Booker is necessarily disappearing. I don't feel like Bridges is disappearing. They'll just have moments where they ride it out and then Paul gets them involved again. And you just have a lot of different ways of beating teams. Even Aiton tonight, you know, he didn't have a great stat night, but all those dudes are present. I feel like they're around and available. I don't feel like they're checked out all that stuff. It was interesting. He said at the end, he was so psyched, Chris Paul, that they had all these fans that came to Denver. And he's like, I've never been with a team that traveled before. And you think like this guy had a pretty fucked up career, right? He starts in New Orleans.

Katrina happens. They have to play a year in OKC. Goes back to New Orleans. They don't have an owner. You know, his fifth, sixth year in the league is running the team. Finally, he has to get traded. He ends up going to the Clippers, which is the, you know. Right.

But after the Lakers thing that was weird. The Lakers thing falls through. He ends up going to the Clippers, a team that had no history at all. Spends a couple years there. Goes to Houston. Has this weird James Harden thing that goes back to OKC. And he goes to the, he ends up on this Phoenix team.

I did a whole thing maybe two months ago on my pod because two months ago, I was like, this team, I don't know if they're going to win the title, but it's not inconceivable to me. This is a weird year. But talking about the history of the Suns and how really since they lost the coin flip

for Kareem in 1970 when he was Lua Cinder. And it's just they've always been kind of in the mix. They made the finals seven years in and they've just repeatedly been able to reinvent themselves in these really weird ways and yet have never gotten over the hump. The closest they came was 1993. And now they're back again. I, this is, I think like the seventh or eighth time since 1976, when they made the finals that they were able to reinvent themselves in the fight, go back to that when they traded for Chris and we thought he was going to go to Milwaukee. It was like, cool. Yeah. All right. This is good for them. It's a good young team. This is a way to keep Booker. They'll be competitive. They might win a round or two. I never remember you and I

talking about, Hey, this is the sons can win the title now. That didn't seem conceivable, but this is the magic of the sons. They have been over and over again. This franchise has been able to, to all of a sudden be in the mix it's crazy yeah look i remember when it was happening and i think you had maybe said at first like look out for phoenix so you know when you say like hey both of us were saying he's definitely going to milwaukee i don't i don't remember is that what we said i don't remember no no we we thought that was where he would end up because he wanted to go there yeah he wanted it and right it made the most sense right but that me hearing about him wanting to go to milwaukee like predates all this kind of stuff

because then when i asked around and it was like no no he'd like to go to phoenix and then when he got there he's like no no he loves it he loves it here and booker you know i'm sure booker it's kind of like the kairi thing in the beginning when he didn't want LeBron to come back. And then you were like, really? You want to go 30 and 52? And I'm sure Booker, after a couple of frustrating years, is like, this is incredible. Like, look how easy my life is with this. Well, think about it. These guys hit the lottery with this.

I think Booker had a chance to be a multi-all-star. The stuff he learned this season, the experiences he's had, and being on this team, you can't even measure what that's going to mean to him over the next eight to 10 years. Chris Paul, what he's done for Aiton, which we've watched over the last six months. We're Aiton now.

We did our top 40 earlier, and I think he was like 31 for me. I just really like him. And I think his, he is a big guy who really gives a shit. Whose heart is in the right place. Who tries bridges. Who was another guy we talked about there in top 40 where, you know,

I was like, maybe next year, this guy might be on the list. Cause to me, he reminded me of Jalen Brown in that 2018 range where it's like, I know the stats don't say it yet, but there's something here as a two way guy that he has a chance to be like a special guy and a really good team.

And I think, you know, going back to Chris, like it's, it's all flown from him. There there's the only, there's only not to sound, you know, completely overboard, but he's the only guy in the league who could have done this where there's no other point guard like him. He's when he rides off into the sunset, it's not like, all right, well, this guy's going to be the new Chris Paul. This is it. This is the position's not played like this anymore. The new point guards that are going to come into the league are going to be emulating Dame Lillard. They're not going to be, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That's just the reality of the situation. Point guards are going to come in and they're going to be guys that shoot 10 to 12 threes a game.

And they're going to be guys that need you to come out and set picks for them. And they're not going to be able to orchestrate an offense and have that kind of impact on other players like this. I think this is the last

of a dying breed. I really do. He could add 50, 60 if he wanted to tonight. I'm serious. And he only took 19 shots. He was 14 to 19 tonight 37 and 7 game 3 27 8 and 6 that's 8 assists 9 to 16 game 2 17 15 assists 5 boards 6 to 10 game 1

21 11 and 6 8 to 14 he made every free throw he didn't take a 3 tonight and that drag screen where they run two screens at the top like he just knew and that's the beauty of chris paul and that's why i still can't believe at certain times the nba level i'll get frustrated being like do you not realize what to attack and chris paul never has that moment i already know what he's going to try to do against the clippers i already know what he's going to try to do against utah depending on who wins on that side of it all right and so i don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves and already have them in the nba finals um but i'll pick them against either of those teams but there's still a lot of work to do

because I don't think they're far and away better than those teams because I just think it's that wide open right now. But Paul knew at every moment with this game, especially when he got going in that third quarter and didn't miss a shot. And I don't know how much longer he would have stayed in with his substitution pattern because he got hit in the eye before the pain Jokic played, which I'm sure we're going to get to later but he knew every time like porter doesn't know what to do

and i thought porter's defense was straight porter right it was a destruction for four games porter's defensive mistakes were like egregious in your face when he first started playing like you're like oh that's why and i still think malone could have at least tried to put him out there and you know when they'd had some injuries and he still refused to play him um and he's a special shot maker but you can see with porter jr there's just moments where he's like how about that breakaway where he got the and one in the foul he had a guy who was right wide open he never even looked at him the whole time and look he got the and one so it worked out for him but it's kind of like where porter's in his zone and then there was that play late in the game,

it was close to kind of deciding it all, where he didn't even see the back screen. There was a back screen on the big by Booker, and that was going to leave Porter at the rim against Chris Paul, and Porter never even saw it. Like, he didn't process any of those things, and it was a wide-open layer for Paul. So that's the advantage that you have.

Not that he just makes shots, not that he's the assist numbers, not that he's a good shooter, not that he's making all of his free throws. It's that he's just not going to let you go like three horrible possessions, which was kind of scary because, you know, this game got weird in that, Hey, you know, they cut it to five, right? Like, it's like, Oh, yo, which is out this game. I was never worried though. Um, no, I wasn't worried either. Cause everything felt like it was really a struggle for Denver offensively. and then you could see like everybody's kind of just taking to but like campaign for the love that that he he will i think after he got hit he was so mad he was like i got this and then there was a possession where paul kind of came back in and

got the inbound and was like hey yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna set i'm gonna set this one up now back to the Porter thing. I love Chris Haynes. This is not a dig on Chris Haynes, but they threw to Chris Haynes for a report, and he's like, sources told me the Suns are trying to hunt Michael Porter. And I'm like, we've been watching. This has been their entire offensive strategy.

Like, yeah, we're seeing it. That was, you know, one way. The other thing is, Paul we, we're, we're seeing it. Uh, that was, you know, one way that the other thing is Paul didn't have to play defense in the series. He's going to have to play defense next, next series against Utah against the Clippers. Maybe not,

you know, there may, they, he might be able to hide off on Reggie Jackson, but if you think of Chris Paul, like a DH in this series, that's the best way to think of it. Cause all he had to worry about was the offense.

He didn't have to work at all on the other end. This was a severely below average backcourt. I had a couple things to throw at you with Chris. So actually, let's take a break. Because I have a big thing to throw at you. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl,

but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. So I was thinking about best old guy title runs. I did not send this to you. But in football, the defining one was Elway. And Elway wasn't that old,

but he was old when he won in 97 in Denver. And it was a legacy alterer. Even people who didn't like the Broncos or didn't care, they were so fired up. It was great. And it changed the course of his career in a way

where you look at Marino or Barkley you mentioned earlier, people like that. It lifts that giant monkey off your back. Basketball. By the way, real quick though, that first Super Bowl for Elway, he was six years younger than Brady. He was 37.

He was a young pup compared to Brady. Basketball does not really have a scenario like this Chris Paul thing. I went through it. I have my whole list of best old guy title runs for you. The closest we can really come to this was 2011 Jason Kidd. But Jason Kidd was not the same player in 2011

that he was at his peak. I think what's interesting about Chris, when you're watching him, especially today, that's about as good as he looked at his prime. And that's, what's been special about him this year is he's been able to summon Pete, Chris Paul, when he kind of needs it. And even for extended stretches, but, uh, going through just quick, I swear I'll rip through this. The 1969 Celts was the best old guy title because that's like Russell, who knows he's going to retire. Sam Jones, who also knows he's going to retire.

Were they like a four seed or something? Yeah, they're four seed. They're underdog every series and it's just like old guys sucking up. So I got that one. 1972, when Wilt and the Lakers, they went 33, that whole thing. Wilt was 35.

Now he was still throwing his fastball, but I'm just going to mention that one. But here's another really good one. Sorry. It's another Celtics one, but 1976 Celtics where the Warriors are supposed to win. They lose in seventh to Phoenix. Havlicek is kind of at the tail end. He's got planter for situs. Nobody even knows what that is.

He's playing with it. He's limping around and they end up holding off the Suns in the finals. And classic, classic old guy title for him. 1985, Kareem, where he becomes 14 years apart, wins finals, MVP, 71.

And 1985, he was, I think, 37 years old at that point, 98 Stockton. They don't win the finals. And he was just older than Malone. Malone was still really good. Well, it was still top five players.

Like Stockton was at a point where he's only playing 28 minutes a game. So he's in there. Um, 2006 shack older. It's an old guy title. He wasn't the best player in the team. Um, 2012 Gq older, it's an old guy title. He wasn't the best player in the team. Um, 2012 Garnett where they almost make the finals. And that's like kind of the last Garnett run.

And then Miami and game six, game seven, too much LeBron. And then one of my favorites, the 2013, 14 Duncan on the Spurs. And I was doing countdown for both of them, actually. But in game six, they're up 3-2. And I remember saying before the show, I was like, I think Duncan's going to play one of the great games of his career. He can smell it. And he came out, I think he had like 24, 25

in the first half and was just doing all that old guy stuff. They end up losing the series. They come back the next year, they win. And that's our last old guy title. I think what's special, and by the way, we could throw in 1998 MJ, but he was the best player in the league. It's hard to call it an old guy title.

I think what makes this Chris Paul thing so fascinating as we get closer, there it wins away. It combines a lot of these different pieces, but he's still playing really well. Like that 2013-14 Duncan, he wasn't Duncan anymore. He wasn't

2003 Duncan. The shooting carried them offensively too. They had some shooting games where it was just like humiliating. Right. But he could get there for a half, but not for a whole series. I think Chris could the way what we're watching, I think could get there a whole series. So, um, he's got all the different pieces of it, but he's got a, I, I think to make the finals, to really make this feel real, which now I would say they're the favorites. And I think, I think what's so cool about this, I did my, I did my pyramid list. I think in March, I just redid it. And I think I

had them like 42. This is like one of the all-time legacy alters, even if they make the finals now, and now it's like, Chris, with all the other stuff he has, the only thing you can hold against someone as well, but all right. So why didn't he make a finals ever? Now if he makes a finals, not only is it one of the great old guy title runs, but I think he has to be in the top 20. I would have to put him there. All time? Yeah.

I think he has to go in that. He's at least with Barkley and Malone and guys like that. He's with those dudes. He's with Isaiah. I think that would be the last piece for it. Yeah, because the overall stats are going to be staggering for him when he's with those dudes he's with Isaiah I think that would be the last piece for it yeah because the overall stats are going to be staggering for him when he's finally done

so he'll have the stat part of it and he'll have a resume that I think is really impressive in that he's gone to four franchises and he completely turned them around but I'd have to look at it I'd have to look at where I would kind of have my top 20 guys because Akeem's still going to be ahead of him but I'd have to look at it I'd have to look at like where I would kind of have my

top 20 guys because like Akeem's still going to be ahead of him, Moses is going to be ahead of him yeah the Pantheon guys are all ahead of him he's in that, he's with like you know Malone, Barkley, Isaiah Dwayne Wade, people like that I think I think that's the neighborhood you would

have to move into, if he brought this Suns team that was this young that had no playoff experience at all, none. And he brought them to the finals and he went through the Lakers, granted Davis get hurt. He beats the MVP in the second round and whatever team they play in the next round is going to have spent more money and have more playoff proven guys. And that's going to be a really hard team to beat. If he makes the finals with this team, I think it changes the way we would look at his

entire resume. This was the only piece that was missing. Utah's not going to have a lot of playoff-proven guys. They've been in the playoffs for the last few years. They've gotten experience compared to Booker and Aiton and Bridges and people like that. Sure. I guess I just don't... When I think playoffs, I don't think jazz.

Well, we both think the Clippers are going to win that series, right? I'm not sure. I'm really not sure. All right. We'll get to that later. Save that. The Mitchell part of it is a concern. So, yeah, look, I'm not going to sit here and argue against where we're going to have

Chris Paul in the all-time rankings. I just don't want to get too ahead of ourselves. You know, I just don't. It sounds like you're already. What do you think of the old guy title run thing, though? It was fun when it happened for Kidd, too, right? Yeah, but Kidd was

a role player who transformed his game. I mean, Kidd went from a guy who couldn't shoot to then he was like this spot-up two-guard, which is one of the crazy... It was the thing I always thought we were going to see from Steve Nash if Nash's back had held up where I thought he could come in late or come in with a second unit and just go out there and get you buckets

because I always felt like every time Nash shot, it was going to go in. But you're right. This is different because as much as I appreciate Duncan, which I think it's pretty well on the record of how special I think he is, and he kind of gets hosed a little bit in some of these all-time rankings things himself, but Paul is the focal point. how special I think he is. And he kind of gets hosed a little bit in some of these all-time rankings things. Not for me. But Paul is the focal point. This isn't Paul being carried by.

This is his team. Right. Yeah. I mean, look, Booker can score more. And Bridges has these great moments. So, you know what I love too is, I don't know if it's a Paul thing or if it's Monte Williams

or maybe it's just the guys. They're bringing in the right guys. But like the Bridges will keep cutting the secondary cuts where he's like, I'm not giving up on the possession. I'm give you an out you know and if i don't get it i'll make a cut again the next possession i'm not gonna sit there and be like pissed because i didn't get the ball the one time i cut like some of these guys in the league ayton will chase he'll run i mean he had a couple plays when yokich was still in the game where like yokich

was just a few steps behind him because aytonon got off a miss and ran the court. And, you know, he wasn't always getting those passes or some stretches in the middle of the year. And now he's getting them again. So, yeah, right. I mean, he's the star of this show, even though the stats wouldn't say it, where, you know, even Garnett, you know, Garnett was being carried offensively by some of those other guys because even as Garnett got older, I mean, he was always a kind of a reluctant offensive player, even at his peak. And you weren't ever running your offense through Garnett because he didn't really

want to do it that way. But he was a lot like Chris and like his personality became the personality of the team. And that was what was so interesting. I, you know, I went to a lot of those Clipper games and really was analyzing it and trying to wonder what was missing with it. And,

you know, I, I just don't think Blake and Deandre and those guys, and honestly, Doc Rivers either kind of bought into the, this is Chris's team thing, the way the Sunstein did. And it's not,

I'm not placing blame. I just think those guys were at different points in their career. Like Blake, Blake was convinced that he was one and he didn't have reason not to think this, that he was potentially one of the cornerstones of the league, that he was going to be one of the next big superstars we had. And I remember when they got Chris, and he got introduced first,

and then Blake got introduced last in the starting lineups. And I remember writing about it at the time, like, this is pretty interesting because really Chris should be introduced last, right? This is, he's way more accomplished than anyone on this team, but they were already worried about the Blake piece of this. Well, this is Blake's team. And they just were never able to navigate it. That team, you could see the dissension and the dysfunction on the court, whereas the Suns have no dysfunction at all. And maybe Chris got older. Maybe he's learned some lessons over the years, but I'm happy for him. It's like, just what a waste of two Chris Paul years to have him standing on the side

where it's like Kramer Hart and doing this dueling banjo. I know it worked. I know they won games, but I so much more enjoyed this version of Chris Paul where it's like, oh, you're the best pure point guard we've had in the last 20 years. Like, this is great. Do this. Make all the other guys better. All you have to do is watch Chris Paul over the course of his career and know that he

had to have hated what they were doing in houston okay yes because he's like because i'm i'd heard a story where paul was like people actually think i can't get past people off the dribble like are you serious yeah do you think i'm to the point where i can't dribble past guys in this league like that's bullshit and he's like the problem is if i have the ball the other guy stops playing and everybody knows like they can help and you have the ball the other guy stops playing and everybody knows like they can help and you know we've been over this before like some people were convinced that it was just hardens brilliance and spacing and you're like no when he's not in the play he's just not in the play you're four and five so now all of a sudden paul's going like what are we

what's this but it's hardens team and so you could see at times like remember that time when they were in uh they were in a timeout and they were kind of look, guys go at it all the time, but like, it made it look like Paul was super difficult. And Harden's like looking at him being like, what, what?

And it's just Paul knowing how much he loves movement. Everyone kind of figuring out how they fit in. Like that just wasn't going to be something we want to do. And they still won 65 games and they still, you know, if Paul's healthy, probably get out of the gate out of the West and maybe win a title. Who knows?

That Cleveland team was really good. I will never think they were going to beat the Warriors that year. I know it would have been 3-2 or whatever, but I just feel like the Warriors would have summoned it. But look, I give it to Houston because, oh, they can't play together. And, you know, the closing moments are different, but they staggered him beautifully. And I think that Daryl, I think he deserves credit for, even though there can be some usage rate guys where I'm like,

what are you guys doing? I think Daryl was like, look, if the math says that this player is this per possession, why are we taking the ball away from him? So let's just let our main guys have the basketball all the time. And they figured out a way to stagger those guys well enough. It almost worked. Yeah, they must be an iconic team. They were smart defensively in that they go, we're going to be absurd with how we defend five or we're going to defend three with five.

And we're not going to care about the other guys. And you could see Golden State get really stuck there. So I don't know what would have happened because they would have been beating, you're right, a truly iconic team. But I also think it's worth mentioning that, you know, it's a bit like the Joe Frazier thing without the belt for Paul, where you say for five years in the West, you're going up against Golden State, arguably the best five we've ever seen. Well, in retrospect, bad career move, right? Because he had the chance to control his destiny. And this is where like chasing a title goes wrong. He chased the title, little reminiscent of Barkley when Barkley tried

to chase it with Hakeem and go to Houston. And it was just, it was never the right fit. It always felt a little weird, him and Hakeem together. The, uh, the, in retrospect, if he was going to get traded from the Clippers, I just wish he had gone, going to the East might've been smarter. Um, trying to get away from the Warriors for a couple of years. I know that they succeeded in Houston and won 65, but for what he brings to the table, I just kind of, I wish we could do that over again. There's a bunch of things I would love to do over again with Chris's career.

One of them is not him going to the Lakers. Cause I think that would have gone badly, but, um, you know, there was going back to 2005. There was that Paul Pierce, uh, Chris Paul trade where Chris could ended up in Boston. There was other trades with him in 2010 and 11, and he was rumored to be going all over the place. And, um, he finally ended up on the right team. It's crazy. At eight, what is he, 36? 36. 36.

Spent in the league. He was in the 2005 draft. And this is the first team I've ever seen him on where I'm like, this completely makes sense. I love this. Because even those Clippers teams, and they'd win a bunch of games, and Doc didn't gain many fans

when he said basically Golden State was lucky because they're always healthy all the time you're like look they're also better than you guys too yeah all right so there's that but if you think of like a reluctant shooting blake for the first half of his career you know blake developed a competent three-point shot you know he developed that as part of his game but i mean it used to be kind of tough to watch just the indecision from Blake and not being comfortable. So now you have a Chris Paul who's kicking it back to a guy that doesn't necessarily want to shoot DeAndre Jordan, who can't shoot. Well, you hold that point though. You had, you had those two guys in the paint because Blake couldn't shoot yet.

So that's what I'm saying. So now, but Chris had nowhere to go. He would go in there and those two, whoever was defending those two guys could just jump off on him. And, and they thought it was the right thing. They were like, this is great. This is how you play basketball. And they didn't realize what the sons have realized pretty quickly.

It's like, clear it out, send picks, double picks, all that stuff. I interrupted you. I'm sorry. No,

but I mean, think like Dion, how quickly the league shifted to, and that teams were falling over themselves to give DeAnday Jordan a max. Right. And it was a lot of it. And now he can't play. Right. Seriously. Now he, now he can't go on the floor. I have this to throw at you. The Chris Paul trade regret rankings. Okay. This is my list. I didn't consult you on this. Number one is Milwaukee on this podcast. When they made the drew holiday trade,

you and I talked about that. We just would have rather had Chris Paul. Um, Chris Paul was sitting there. It would have cost a first and some, and some contracts, the blood. So Hill contracts. Um,

I think Chris was in a position where he could have decided what team to go to because he had a deal with Presti. It's been well-documented. Presti was going to do right by him because Chris came after that Westbrook trade and was such an awesome teammate and threw himself into the experience in such a profound way that Presti was like, I'm going to do right by you. And Chris wanted to eventually go to Phoenix. But I think Milwaukee was sitting there initially. I don't think it would have been that pricey. And we said this at the time.

I was on the record that I would rather have had Chris Paul than do all the picks that I gave up for Drew Holiday. And I think they could have done it. Yeah, whatever the price ends up being for the Drew trade, which still is significant. And we all like Drew Holiday. We all like Drew Holiday. You can sit there and say, hey, he's 31,

and Paul's always hurt and all this stuff, so I can kind of get it. But I would have imagined if you look at the prices paid for both players, if you could have paid less for Chris Paul. It's not just less, though, Ryan. It's like six picks less. Yeah, it's dramatically less. And you could have used those six picks

to try to get the fourth guy. Maybe that's... Now you try to get Beal or whoever with the rest of the picks or whoever's available and keep adding. So I think that's... I thought at the time, and I think so now, I just thought it was a safer move by them.

But they were enamored with Drew. And maybe we're putting Paul with like 2010 Blake in Giannis. Maybe. They're my number one. Number two is Miami who had a couple bites at this apple, right? Heading into the 2018-20 season. You can go back and read these stories because I did it earlier. And it was like they had the Dragic.

He would have been an expiring contract. They had another expiring. And they basically, they could have been an expiring contract. They had another expiring. And they basically, they could have thrown some expiring contracts together with the first and gotten Chris. They would have had to probably throw in one of the young shooters, though, Duncan or Hero. I don't think, not in 2019. Because remember, he didn't have the same kind of trade value. Oh, in 19? Yeah.

In 19. There was stuff about, would OKC have to attach picks to Chris? Yeah, 19. There was stuff about would OKC have to attach picks to Chris. Yeah, yeah. Right. No, that's why I kind of laugh about how much a market can change in 12 months, but that you were attaching assets to Paul to get Westbrook's contract. Think about that out loud. Well, we all love

playoff dragage, but if you put the Chris that we saw in OKC last year on Miami's team... The Lakers front line still crushes them. Yeah, the Lakers still win the title in six. But then this year, they also had a chance to get him. I think it would have been a little more complicated. I think Harrow might have had to have been involved.

At the time, I think maybe they're, and I would include myself, I think our opinions of Harrow are probably higher. Yeah. I think it opinions of Harrow are probably higher. Yeah. But I think it's safe to say. Yeah, I think it's safe that we've adjusted what we think of Tyler Harrow a year later. So I have Miami too.

I don't think for this year, I think for 19, it's a legitimate thing because I think they could have stolen them. And I think people are really, if you go back and read all the articles, it was all about everybody wanted to keep the cap space for Giannis in 2021. Got to keep it open. Well, Giannis signed an extension. That became stupid immediately. So I have them second. I have the Knicks third. I knew you were going to

bring up the Knicks. Well, they could have stolen them a year ago for nothing. You go back and read the articles. It was like, I'm not sure we can give up Kevin Knox. And I just think they could have swiped him. And they had this out-of-camp space and just flipped Derrick Rose for Chris Paul this year with all the other pieces they have. They're not winning the title, but it's a more interesting team. I wonder how much pushback

he would have had, though, going to the Knicks, going, who am I going to play with? You know, at least you can look at Booker. You can look at Aiton. I mean, I don't know how tuned in Paul was to Bridges, but you're right. I mean, he impressed because of how he handled himself and he just took that franchise over last year. I think Presti felt like, Hey, I got to make sure I, cause I had heard a story too, was like, you want to try to run this back one more time or something? And it was like, no, we're good. Like I did everything I've asked of me and I didn't take a ton of time off either. Like I took it seriously and you know, hell, they still almost won a first round series

last year. The Knicks won. I'd agree they should have done it again because I think sometimes the GM job, we make it more comp. I think it's way harder than people do. That's why I'll kind of be like, well, you know, you did this and it didn't work, but they did this because of this reason and this reason and this reason and the rest of the options weren't that great.

But then on the other side of it, you could also be like, what's the debate in the room when you're like, hey, do you want to get Chris Paul? No. You know, like think about it. Just think about it that simply going, do we want to add this? Because again, you just have to pay 90% of the cap anyway.

So you're saving your cap space on a short term. And that's why it'll be really interesting as this continues to see what he gets when he opts out. Well, Leon and Wes, he had that whole thing with the Knicks too. I think the Knicks were sitting there because there was a moment where it was unclear. Phoenix was going to put in a pick. And if they didn't put in the pick,

I think the Knicks could have pounced. But yeah, look, if they make the finals, it gets in the development though. It gets in his way. Well, I know Knox and Nita Lakina,

they, they just said, no, pick other guys in the roster. If they's development, though, gets in his way. Well, I know Knox and Nita Lakina, they just said no. Pick other guys on the roster. If they make the finals, though, Chris is going to tear up his contract and probably go like three for 90, something crazy. It's about more money. We were always talking about that $44 million option. Oh, my God.

That's the worst contract in the league. And he'll be signing for longer than that. I have one more team in the regret rankings. They probably don't even know they're on the list. Why wouldn't new Orleans have made a play for him last year? Why couldn't everything that's happening with Phoenix right now have happened with new Orleans? I thought there was a little bit more of a kicking on the tires than,

than you're suggesting. Um, but I, you know, I don't know. I don't know how formal that is. How about this? Chris Paul, Drew Holiday, Zion and Brandon Ingram with just some rotating big men. I'm pretty sure that team would have been successful. What are you giving? Are you giving up Lonzo? You got to figure out where the salary, I mean, you got to give up somebody here. Yeah. I think you have to give up Lonzo.

Maybe they didn't have the contract. Would they have to get to like 40? Maybe they didn't have the contract. No, I mean, then 25% of the numbers, so they didn't have to get to 40. But I'd have to look at it. I'd have to look at it to see the salaries that were coming in. But I was trying to think, was there another team that was kind of

sitting there that could have been Phoenix, right? Who had some good young players. We never thought of them as a playoff team. Then Chris showed up and now they're in the final four. And New Orleans is the only other team from a talent standpoint. And then you could argue,

I don't have them in the regret rankings, but if the Celtics had pulled off some sort of Kemba, Kemba, Chris, something. I was waiting for this. I just, I don't think it was on the table. I have a question for you now that when you look at the East,

would the Celtics be the favorite if they're still around? Do I, who do I have? I have everybody on the team. I'm just, I'm just messing with you. Do I have a healthy? It's still a no.

It's still a no. Is Robert Williams healthy? Robert Williams is healthy and Fournier's locked in. He found a- Is Fournier no COVID, Fournier? Yeah, he found a townhouse he feels comfortable with. It's close to everything. It's close to CVS and Duncan.

I have a couple other just notes from Phoenix, Denver. The Aaron Gordon thing was a debacle. Do you want to look at his numbers real quick? The defense was good. The offense answered our question of, wow, I wonder what Aaron Gordon would look like on a team that knew what it was doing. Well, we found out.

He had 18 in game one, six, four in games two and three. He had eight, I think, for the game tonight. He had four points when the game still kind of mattered. He is a different limited offensive player when he's not allowed to just kind of take possessions over because Orlando didn't have anybody else to get in his way. Right. When is that?

When he can't go Jeremy Grant because his team sucks. And it's like, Oh no, I have to, there was a couple of really, really aggressively bad post-ups that brought for some reason brought back Antoine Walker flashbacks for me. The hardest he tried tonight is when he wanted to get a technical on somebody

from Phoenix. Yeah. Chris Paul spiked the basketball and he like darted over the ref. Why? What'd you think of the Jokic ejection? He's the fucking best, best regular season player in the league. I'm not sending him packing on that play.

We'd like get, treat him the same as you would LeBron and Durant and LeBron wouldn't get tossed on that. No way. Fuck out of here. Like at some point, the superstars have to be treated a tiny bit differently. We treat LeBron too differently,

but there's, there should be some sort of leeway with the best guys. And this is, Jokic just doesn't have a history of being a dick like that. I mean, it was definitely a violent play, but he was going for the ball. He hit the ball. I think it seemed like his arm kind of brushed Payne's nose,

which was accidental. And it was a horse shit call. They're playing for their season. I hated the ejection. And, you know, I've seen guys not going to eject. It was clear he was mad because he didn't get a call. Then he hits him. And then even though it wasn't like flush, Reg miller even the beginning he's like what are you talking

about that's all bald you're like or you're gonna remember like somebody the size of yokich swiping down on you a guy that big yeah he doesn't have to be flush yeah to for it to hurt um and then pain is down in a in a just a pile so if pain gets played earlier yeah pain gets up earlier it's probably just a one and that's unfortunately what everything is it's the landing and the reaction after the hit i don't like it i don't like it if it's not yokich i seriously like i just don't think it's a violent play if it's patrick beverly i'm throwing him out because he's got okay but if he has a history where he's diving at people's feet the entire time or running into people if you watch beverly for five minutes away from the ball you're like i can't believe this guy isn't fined all the time he's just

he's in the wrong playoffs he should be in the nhl he's brad marshand and high tops right oh it's better it's an incredible offensive player. No, I agree. I agree. Crowder, who all these free agent exception guys, and he became the best one by far, but I was like, man, this

guy's been in a lot of playoff games. Can you guess how many playoff games he's been in since 2017? Since 2017? The 16-17

playoffs. So 2017 playoffs. So 2017 playoffs. I'll say 65. Did you look that up? That's the exact number. It's 65. Wow.

There's something to be said for like, hey, that guy's been in 65 playoff games. I definitely didn't look it up, by the way. I know you think I did. Right. My hands are right here. But to be like, yeah,

that guy's played in playoff games against LeBron James. He was in the finals last year. Like the guys that really, that really sweating out this game for clincher against Denver. And the fact that you can go small ball for with him next to his center, or you can play him like, with him next to his center, or you can play him, and he can shoot threes, he's not afraid, he's a little tough.

It's weird we didn't value him more in the free agency. You look at it, and you're like, why didn't that guy get 45 for three from somebody? It was so hard to find guys like that. Would you agree, though, he's had a couple runs over the years where it was sort of disappointing, though? Yeah, he had bad taste in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah.

And then remember it was like, oh, don't get guys after Brad Stevens back when Brad Stevens was the greatest coach of all time. Yeah, I love those days. There was this concern. That was so much fun. This post-Brad Stevens experience where Brad was just so amazing that everybody get, you know, he maximized everybody's skills. So I think some Utah fans would probably tell you like jay crowder jay

crowder you know so i think he'd had a few little dips along the way but he played so well last year that you would have thought you know maybe the market would be a little bit stronger 3 and d guy i mean we seem to think there's a uh 32 30 30 all right. Yeah. Young guy. Marquette guys, I always think they're older. Why do you think Aiton has gotten so good at avoiding foul trouble? I thought

the Denver Phoenix era, I was like, well, Denver will win too because you know Aiton will get three fouls in two minutes. He actually had fouls

tonight. But he somehow learned, he knows how to play in foul trouble, which I think is such an underrated big guy skill. They left him in in one of the Phoenix games with two. Yeah. Early. And I went, whoa, like that's saying something. I think the biggest

thing with Jokic is if you don't go for the up fakes, you can probably survive. Right. He just kept moving. He kept his hands up. Interestingly, in the last year in the playoffs,

that's kind of what Dwight and Davis did too, right? They just kind of keep their hands up. They keep moving. They don't kind of go for anything and they, they almost don't want to get roped into a foul, but they just keep use lengths and it bothered him a little bit. I mean, he still had awesome stats in this series.

He had a 22 and 11 tonight. It hurt his career playoff stats, but he was still getting his stuff. It was just harder. At least they were making him work. Yeah, he was... He's amazing. Yeah, he is amazing.

He's amazing. His team is so bad i think it's right i don't i'm serious man like i don't there's if you're doing the yokich sucks deal tomorrow like i'm sorry like i just can't well you know our guy coward you know what his nine o'clock lead's gonna be in the pt well i could see his tweet he said chris paul's making a mockery of the mvp Cowher called me. Yeah, Cowher called me this weekend, but I was playing hoops, so I didn't pick up.

And I thought for sure, I was like, I'm getting his Monday open right now. And I already know it's coming. Look, hey, I'm the biggest fucking Chris Paul guy going. Yeah, you are. And I'm telling you, he wasn't the MVP. Yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't. We can't do the thing

where the playoffs has validated whatever you thought the regular season, with one exception, the 1998 finals when it was ludicrous that our 1997 finals when it was ludicrous that Carl Malone won the MVP. And then we just got to play it

out in the form of a of an ass kicking. Did you like Evil Jokic? Do you think he should pursue this wrestling heel Jokic? Do you think he should pursue this wrestling heel Jokic? Do you think he should get like a facial hair goatee thing going and really a couple tattoos that just make him seem more menacing? Should he take this further? I didn't like when he apologized to campaign. Go the other way, Jokic. I liked when he was saying to Booker, what are you going to do and he

said it over and over and over again and i think there was some spittle it wasn't a direct spit but there was one spittle moment there that i thought was was probably tough to be on the other side of that but it's just one of those deals like kind of like when a corner gets into it with a tackle and the tackle's like hey look like you, you're probably strong and think you're tough and everything, but I'm a left tackle. And if I get my hands on you, I'll destroy you. And I think Jokic, nobody wants to look like a punk, but when Jokic is from Serbia, basically spitting on you, looking down on you, being like, what are you going to do?

What are you going to do? What are you going to do over and over again? There must be some moments when you're seven feet and you're enormous that you can just be like, look, like, I know no one thinks I never have to fight. So I, my punches aren't great, but like, I'm, I'm a huge human being. It was great. Booker was, there was that extra two seconds where he was like, oh shit. I thought some other guys were coming in this guy's so mad at me he's waiting for anywhere his road security guy to knock yokich out of the way that was so weird with durant and pj tucker because when i was watching

it live i go wait is there a guy at the bucks arena that pushed pj tucker and then i was then we all realized after the fact it's kevinant's personal security guy. But it was cause it looked like, wait, he just got pushed out of the way by a guy that ran out of the court. And then of course, after the fact, you're like, yeah, he's not gonna be working anymore. Like, okay, that seems like the right decision. He will not be at the arena anymore. Um, all right, we're gonna take a break and we'll try to rip through the rest of these storylines in 20 minutes. All right, we're back. Did we do enough Chris Paul? I thought we devoted enough time.

We're at the 47 minute mark here. Clips Utah. I don't know why it took the Clips three games to realize the right lineups to play in this series. I don't understand it. They've spent, what, $20 million a year in their front office, and it took them two full games

to be like, oh, we should go small. Maybe Terrence Mann should play a little bit. Maybe we should just fly around on defense with a smaller lineup and put the ball in power. I do think they've unlocked it. If Mitchell's not 100%, that's good for them, too, my only point on this series, it feels like it officially starts tomorrow night and I'm psyched cause I'm going to be there, but I think this was three games

of feeling out and tomorrow night, the series starts. And here's the thing with the NBA, they're going to need, um need at least one of these series to go to seven. It could be Bucks-Nets, I guess. Although if Kyrie's out, that series might be ending faster than we thought. But this to me just feels

like a seven-game series. Do you ever just watch a series and go, all right, this is going to be seven? I feel like this is a seven gamer. Am I wrong? I think the Clippers thing here, as I've mentioned a bunch of times, you wonder,

will this guy check out? Will this guy be comfortable in a tight spot? They're down 2-0. They're down 3-1, and they got through it. They came back, and Kawhi played a brilliant game six. Marcus Morris was really good in seven as well it seems like they've abandoned the rondo thing and i don't i don't love sometimes we can be a little too deliberate when we'll just be like oh this coach is an idiot because he didn't do this

i don't understand the beverly minutes over terrence man man played eight minutes and one minute in the previous two games and man at this stage is just better offensively than beverly is i would argue he's better defensively too because you don't have to worry about him committing a flagrant foul or doing something that's going to swing the momentum in the game because you know all of a sudden the other team's shooting four free throws because your guy decided to check somebody into the scores table yeah it's always a concern but i think beverly has a lot of that dream on in him where you know you say like why do you have to do all these other things and it's like he just can't his whole career his whole game is dictated

on him doing those things and beverly's the same way like no one thought i was good enough and that's where i think he plays with his resentment i think he's a very dirty player i don't even think it's debatable i think he's the dirtiest guy in the league right now. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. Like, he is. But Mann is just better offensively. And, you know, I think Beverly can... I would think it would be exhausting

to continue to do all the stuff you would do if you were Patrick Beverly, where Mann, to your point, is kind of just out there playing. So they've gone small. And when Gobert isn't in there, they attack the hell out of favors. They were way better on their doubles with Mitchell,

where Mitchell was doing damage. I mean, that first game, some of the shit he was doing against the doubles where he was splitting them was so good. And I think it's to every one of the Clippers' credit that they showed a level of intensity that they can get to, but did they only show that level because they were desperate and down 2-0 maybe and then Mitchell on the ankle thing you saw him kind of split and you're like oh no like what's going to happen here um and then you know there's still no Conley and I was reading today like he could be there for four maybe miss the entire

series you just don't know so I don't I don't have any info on any of that kind of stuff um but yeah I think this series feels like seven games because I don't think like I don't I don't have any info on any of that kind of stuff but yeah I think this series feels like seven games because I don't think like the Clippers all of a sudden just figured it all out because they're going to go small and now they're not going to lose any because Paul George was really good in three and I'd expect a bad Paul George game again I'm going to ask you a question

though do you know how many times since these two guys have been together how many times Kawhi and Paul George have both scored 30 in a game like 22 five since these two guys have been together, how many times Kawhi and Paul George have both scored 30 in a game? Like 22? Five. Oof.

Really? Yeah. Game three was the second time this year. That's weird. I don't think they're a good fit together. I just don't. I just don't think George is consistent enough. I mean, it's okay to have two wings who can have the basketball.

I actually think you'd still want that. But then a Baca, you know, like another part of this Clippers thing, too, is to not have a Baca for any of it. Now he's done. Well, you pushed that was your mid-level guy. Like even if they sign Crowder, that's at least he's playing. I have some Fando odds for you. Okay. Utah's minus 184 to win the series.

Clippers are plus 154. Clips are plus 390 to win in seven. Jazz are plus 250 to win in seven. Clips are plus 410 to win in six. You like the Clippers. You're picking the Clippers. I can just tell. I got to say,

sometimes I really believe in this stuff. As you know, I'm a karma guy. I believe in ghosts. I believe in weird shit. It really felt real to me today that Chris could end up playing the Clippers to go to the finals. It felt like that was the destiny of all of this.

The Lakers, Davis getting hurt when he did. Jamal Murray going down two months. There's all these weird things that are pushing Chris toward this thing that has eluded him with all the bad luck he's had. And the last piece would be going against the Clippers in round three. In my head, it just makes too much sense.

And here's the thing with Chris and the Clippers. He's the best Clipper ever. And it's not close. He's the greatest LA Clipper of all time. The Clippers do not have a retired number. They've been, they moved from the Braves to San Diego in 77. They spent, I think, seven years in San Diego. They moved to LA in 1984. They do not have a retired number. Chris is the best player they've ever had. Blake Griffin's the second best player they've ever had. Kawhi is the third. He's only been with the team two years. Um, but Chris is the best quipper ever. And if you want to go further, like he legitimized the franchise. They were a fucking joke. They Donald Sterling as an owner, they never won anything. They only had one good year in 30,

35 years before he showed up in 2006 when they lost them round two. And the Clipper fans talked about that 2016, like it was the 86 Red Sox. And he comes in and he completely legitimized them. And even though Lab City, we look back at it now, it's disappointing and all this. And they, And 2014-15, they choked both years. At least they were playing for a title. They were in the mix. They had a chance.

This is the only time in the history of the team that they were like that. And now they're like that again this year. And now Chris would be going against them. And I think it would be fucking cool. I'm into it. You might be right. I'm still staying with Utah, unless Mitchell's really banged up. I don't think be fucking cool. I'm into it. You might be right. I'm still staying with Utah

unless Mitchell's really banged up. I don't think Mitchell's healthy. I didn't like what I saw the other night. That to me seemed like more than just, oh, I tweaked my ankle again. I think he was managing

real pain. 78? Oh, you want me to do it? I always want you to do it. I'm going to say 81%. Yeah, sounds right. Feels right. Felt like about 86, 87% at some point there in game three,

but then I think it tipped off. I don't think he's healthy. And I'll tell you this. Kyrie was in a walking boot and crutches after the game, as reported by Rachel Nichols. did you see the owner's quote yeah it made it seem like Kyrie's out yeah that's how I read it I mean it was kind of weird to have it but again if a guy's out he's out you know you can pretend and keep it a secret for 48 hours and if he's not ready to go then he's not ready to go so I think people spend too much energy on this stuff, but his, the owner's quote was basically like, we will not rush Harden back

for Kyrie. And you were like, Oh, okay. Cause Kyrie. So they showed the replay and I was, as somebody I'm sure you, what was, you must've had at least one horrible sprained ankle playing basketball, right? Oh yeah. I mean, so so it's it also is the time when it's not. Well, whatever. Nobody wants to hear about our injuries and pick up hoops. So I'll just keep it moving. Well, the thing is, when they showed the replay and his foot bent and it was like, oh, the way it bent, that'll be all right.

And then there was one last piece to when it bent where all of a sudden it was his the top his toe is going toward his body. And I was like, oh, Oh, that's like, you're just not playing on that. You're not coming back from that. And if you come back, you're going to be like Isaiah in the 88 finals where it's like, you're basically playing on one leg. They have a whole bunch of science. Now I, they didn't say if it was, I don't think it was a high ankle sprain. I think it was a low ankle sprain. They have a whole bunch of science. Now they can do the electroids for 24 hours. They can do all that shit. You're still not playing four days

from now at more than 75%. Just no way. When you think about how footwork oriented he is and how technically brilliant he is and how much his feet are a part of everything, if you're compromising that, he's just not the same guy. He's a three-point shooter and he's not going to be able to draft. No, and he's obviously like he would have been because there are times you'll see a guy turn it and it kind of bounces back perfectly and it scares the shit out of you

more than it actually hurts. That was not this. That was not, no, no. You're not going to be in a boot and crutches if it was like, no, it gave me a good scare, but I'm just going to be a boot and crutches over here. So yeah, that sucks because, you know, look, everybody knows we're not the biggest Kyrie guys, but I, I still kind of love watching them play. Oh my God. I mean, give me a break.

It looked like today before he got hurt, it looked like we were about to have like a Kyrie run. And I was like, look, he's my least favorite basketball player. I was here for it. I was like, let's go. Let's watch this. Now, granted, I'd bet on the Nets. But for the series or just game four? Yeah. Look, I don't hate any basketball player. I still, no, I don't hate any athlete. But, you know, it's fun.

Lambert? You like Lambert? I kind of hated Lambert. You're right. I hated Lambert. Lambert is the one guy. Oh, and Elf Samuelson. Lambert? You liked Lambert? I kind of hated Lambert. You're right. I hated Lambert. Lambert's the one guy. And Elf Samuelson. Those are my two.

Yeah. And Paul O'Neill. I hated his guts as well. I guess. So there's three. I really hated Paul O'Neill. Wait, is Paul O'Neill your least favorite Yankee ever? Yeah.

I fucking hated that guy. You know what I hated more about Paul O'Neill than just hating him? How the Yankee fans, and I'm sure John Jastrzemski will listen to this and text me, but the Yankee fans were like, Oh, fucking Paul O'Dell is the fucking best. Like they just,

they sang his virtues in a way that really bugged me. It was like, all right, he's a two 90 hitter. Settle down. I hated a lot of those Mets a lot. Like Wally Backman and, Oh,

that's yeah. Yeah. And Ray Wally Backman and Ray Knight. Oh, Ray Knight. I hated Ray Knight. All those guys. I hated... That was like my first... That was like me being Luke Skywalker hanging out with the Emperor where he's like,

let it flow through you, you know? And I just was like... It was the first time I ever felt real hatred for an opposing team because I just was like, I hate all these guys. And yeah, that was... I hated Kareem.

You know who I didn't like as a Yankee was Scott Brocious annoyed me. You want to know why? Because like he came over, he had like, he hadn't been good at all. And then he was really good for him. And it drove me crazy because I was like, oh, this is exactly what the Yankees need on top of all the other guys they have. They just add Scott Brocious who nobody really wanted and he fits in perfectly. So yeah, no, nothing personal with Scott Brocious, who nobody really wanted, and he fits in perfectly. So, nothing personal with Scott Brocious, but that was, you know, my peak unhealthy years were those late 90s, early 2000s.

And then once I was in the business, I just stuff just bothered me a lot less. I wrote a column once about the concept of sports hate. It's fun to hate certain athletes. You don't really hate them. You don't hope something horrible happens to them. Yeah. I wouldn't really hate them. You don't hope something horrible happens to them. Yeah.

I wouldn't run into Scott Brocious and be mean. Right. But it was really fun to sports hate this Nets team the way they're put together and the whole thing. But at the same time,

like, you're watching them and when they were on, it was just beautiful to watch. Like, when Kyrie or Durant would get going, you know,

there's nobody like those two guys and they're not replicable. So it'll be... I saw Perkins Perkins tweeted. Sam? I actually went on Twitter because I was looking for Kyrie info and Perkins tweeted, KD has

a chance to have a really, really special game five. Right? Like from a historic standpoint. One of the great ones. has a chance to have a really, really special Game 5. Right? Like from a historic standpoint. One of the great ones. I feel like KD's legacy is secured no matter what happens in this series. But I also didn't

disagree with the point because Game 5 will be KD against the Bucks. And they have P.J. Tucker to throw at them. They have Giannis to throw at them. They have Middleton to throw at him. They can trap him. They can put Drew Holiday on him. They have four really intriguing

different types of defenders to just rotate on him constantly. And if Joe Harris doesn't show up and he doesn't have another shooter he can trust, it's going to be really hard for him to navigate. But at the same time, I think he's the best player in the world, and I think he's going to figure it out it would see this is where i mean it goes without saying but like this is the problem now because when you had harden you have a ball

initiating offensive player right who can dribble who can set people up can shoot kairi uh not the exact same thing but checks the boxes for all of those things. Can initiate the offense, can dribble, can keep a possession alive when everything's broken down and figure out some kind of angle, some path. And can have an eight-point streak in two minutes. So now you have Durant where, and look, Perkins' tweet is fine.

There are other tweets out there where this is the part of NBA Twitter that sucks. Is somehow then it becomes like, well, if Durant can't do this, then that means this, this, and this. And you're like, you know what? Just no. Can we give it a couple hours here? Can we give it a couple hours? And Blake is not a ball initiating player anymore. Joe Harris, although has a little bit more well-roundedness to his game, you know, kind of like when people think Seth Curry just stands in the corners like no actually Seth can put on the floor a little bit more but still that's

asking a lot Brown is not a guard Jeff Green is a catch and shoot guy uh Claxton is not a ball initiating player Mike James actually probably a little bit too much are you going to go Tyler Johnson are we going to see Lualu Cabaro here Shamit's a catch guy so now you you're going to ask Durant to carry this team offensively without a really good guard to set him up. But here's the thing, though. That's asking a lot. Here's what people don't realize,

and they don't factor in with stuff like what happened today. These teams, they have a game plan. They know what they're going to do. They have their rotations planned out and all that. You lose Kyrie during that point in the game when you lose it. We talked about in part one, they seem shell-shocked for like a half hour because it's like, holy shit, did we just lose the title? So they're dealing with that. On the other hand, you're kind of refiguring out a game plan on the fly. You're on the road. You're playing a team that was playing pretty well. Um, and I, you know,

now they have two days to actually come up with a game plan. If it's just going to be built around Durant, they didn't have that luxury as the game is going on, you know? So look, their, their shooters are going to have to show up. They're going to have to take a lot of threes and basically do what Milwaukee did today. Milwaukee just took a shitload of threes. What did they end up with? Over 50? They were fucking chucking them up. Yeah, and they were hitting them. Because they were like, look, our offense was

awful. We couldn't have looked worse. Our points per possession was a disaster. Let's just shoot more threes. And they did. I think at one point in the first half, they had like 26 or something. But... Look, as great as Durant is,

and we're in agreement here, it's asking a lot of anyone to have to set it all up himself and then win a game. You know? I mean, there are guys that do it, but... You know,

just the rest of that team isn't exactly somebody you're passing it to and asking them to create on their own that's what i'm saying well and on top of that if they're gonna let the bucks do the stuff they did in game three and four he's not gonna be able to win the game by himself because the physicality they had there's no way they'll let it they won't call it like that they won't because it'll be such a big deal between now and game five. They have to lobby for those calls now for the next 48 hours. The thing is Tucker played it brilliantly. He was really physical first play on.

This is an old Chris Paul trick. I'm going to be really physical right now. And if you don't call it right now, I get to do this for the rest of the game. And that's what Tucker did. Tucker did in game three too. I'm going to be right in this guy's Jersey. I'm to do this for the rest of the game. And that's what Tucker did. Tucker did in game three, too. I'm going to be right in this guy's jersey. I'm going to be really physical.

And, oh, cool, you're not calling it? Great. And then that's it. So I agree with you. I think they will call it in game five. I wonder we don't think the NBA rigs this stuff. If you're the NBA, isn't it better for you if Milwaukee wins this series?

No. Market-wise? I'm not talking about market-wise. I'm talking about fans, narratives, instead of like, oh, look, any three guys can throw together a championship team.

And then, you know, basically two of them quit on the teams they were on as the season was going. And now, um, now you win the title versus like Giannis homegrown star signed an extension smile in his face the whole time, got over the hump. And now it's like the last piece is now he's in the finals. And this is like a bigger level of stardom. Right. And then on the foot, on the West side, Chris Paul is the greatest narrative of all time. Like Chris Paul being in the finals would be the greatest thing that happened for the NBA this year. Cause

it would just be a Chris Paul love fest for two weeks. I would say within the league, he's probably the most liked player. Yeah. But Milwaukee's everything you said is fine. You know what I mean? Like what should happen? What should be rewarded? Who should win? I'm just talking to all that kind of stuff. But, um, to have an evil major market team like Brooklyn, if Brooklyn is considered evil, which I think there'd be a lot of people rooting against them. Yeah. Um, I think that would probably draw the most secondary eyeballs to it. So you think Brooklyn Phoenix would be your best, if it's Vince McMahon is figuring this out,

he would pick Brooklyn Phoenix. Well, he'd probably pick Clippers Phoenix, wouldn't he? Or Clippers Brooklyn. Phoenix has to make it now. The Paul thing I think could be the dominant do you think there's enough people though like we're the wrong people to ask this stuff but it's always about the secondary the tertiary viewer are there enough people drawn to the Chris Paul story that somebody who isn't normally watching the finals because as much as I love him I think that's a bit of a reach.

I think it's a great storyline for us and for NBA people. I just don't know that like, is somebody's girlfriend going, Oh, I want to watch Chris Paul. Now they do that with LeBron. They do it with Steph. Um, I'm going to make one of the best points I've ever made on this podcast

right now. Well, I can't wait. I'm not going anywhere. Here's where you're discounting. I think a lot of people know him from the State Farm ads. I think he has a weird, crazy level of fame from those ads. I think those are the most effective ads. I'm not just saying this because State Farm has done a lot of stuff with this podcast.

I think those ads are incredibly successful and effective. And somebody like my daughter, who knows nothing, would be like, oh, Chris Paul, Cliff Paul. So she's going to watch. She's going to watch for two and a half hours because of State Farm. I just think she likes Chris Paul from those ads. It makes no sense. But I think there's a lot of people that really like him from those ads. It's a fair point.

I just, I don't know. I don't know if that's enough. Like if you were on The Bachelor, yeah. No doubt. Listen, if you're going Phoenix, Utah, or the Clippers, Phoenix is by far the best option of those three for big market who fans care about.

Nobody knows what to make of this Clippers team. It's not like there's people like, oh man, can't wait to run it back with Kawhi. If Brooklyn were healthy though, I think not just because the Brooklyn part. Brooklyn Clippers for basketball. Yeah. Yeah.

But also you would have so many people rooting against the Nets, but they would watch it. Right. You know, that's, that's the difference. That is the difference with any of these sporting events. And it's why baseball struggled so much is you have to care about the outcome of a story.

And it's why the F1 thing is picked up with a bunch of us that watched the three seasons on Netflix because now I actually care about these guys a little bit. But I think Chris Paul, they can market it that way where it's like, this is one of the best players of his generation, one of the best 25 players ever. This was an odyssey for this guy to try to make the

finals and he's made it. And we are going to make you care about this over the next two weeks. Hey, I hope so. I hope so. I'm not sure though. Giannis would be the other one where it's like this kid from the streets of Greece rose up the ranks First round pick Nobody expected anything And now he's here And he's the face of this league He's the globalization It goes through him They could do that whole thing

Milwaukee Phoenix plus Coin flip The rematch Heads was Heads was No one No one There's really six It'd be you and charles pierce

listening about it listen people listening at home google neil walk the guy had like a full sheet of back hair he was like one of the hairiest guys in the history of the league he was the center i would compare him to like i don't like Frank Kaminsky, like kind of level talent. And that was the consolation prize to the Kareem lottery. Kareem was the third best player of all time or second. You see the Emeril LeBron in the two or three spot. And the tails was Neil Walk. And that's how the Sun started everything.

And now all these years later, they can make it. I'm going to be good. If you were still on countdown, that would be a good little segment for you. Yeah, I think everyone would have just stared at me kind of in horror and just waited to throw it to another thing. We didn't talk about Philly at all.

And this podcast is about to come to an end, but we have to because nobody is more excited right now than Sixers fans. Milwaukee fans, even though they have a chance to win this series, for all the reasons we let out in part one, there's there, they still know, they know that this team is not running on all cylinders.

They know that they don't have a bench. They know that there's some real offensive struggle shit going on. And even if they get by Brooklyn, it would be more because Brooklyn had two major injuries. Like I'll just say this for any Milwaukee fan that would come at us. If they lost Chris Middleton 43 seconds into the series and then drew holiday in the second quarter of game four, would Milwaukee be Brooklyn? The answer is no.

And imagine both those guys are even better. Right? So the answer is no, you wouldn't win the series. You, you caught an unbelievable break here with two injuries that now you have a chance to win. But if you're Philly and you're, you wouldn't win the series. You caught an unbelievable break here with two injuries that now you have a chance to win. But if you're Philly, I guess you're healthy.

I don't know what to make of this Embiid thing, but he's playing. Danny Green's out. Danny Green's out. On the other hand, that means more viable, my guy. But I don't want to write off Atlanta yet because I could see them hitting like 25 threes in game four and all of a sudden it's an even series.

But I just don't think they have an answer for Embiid. So unless he gets hurt, Philly's going to win. The Embiid thing is just insurmountable for them. It's just too easy. It's too easy. I don't know why that would change all of a sudden. Like the Trey stuff was too easy in game one. But I think all of us that saw what their potential options were,

like you didn't have to be a basketball genius to go, you know what? Like you can probably figure out some different ways to attack this thing. And it has worked. So it's those two elements that I don't know why there's going to change. Like Trey could still go off. Like, are we kidding?

I mean, it's Trey, but it's, it's never going to be as easy asrey could still go off. Like, are we kidding? I mean, it's Trey, but it's, it's never going to be as easy as it was the first 24 minutes of game one. The Hunter thing is such a bummer. Totally. If, if they had a Hunter and Hunter,

it seemed like he was running in shape. Now he's out again. But if they had him, I would take it more seriously, but it feels like they're a guy short. Like there's some legitimate Solomon Hill now. Solomon Hill's been playing throughout.

No, but I mean, now it's like they actually need Solomon. Now it's like, hey, Solomon, do you think you can get us 12 points? What do you got today? Can you hit a couple threes? Anything? I don't know. I'm not feeling great for Atlanta, but the thing with Embiid is

it could be any moment. He could be limping to the locker room at any moment of the game. So, bizarre finals. So, gun to your head right now, who wins the title? You don't know when Kyrie's coming back. You don't know when Harden's coming back.

You don't know how Embiid is back. You don't know when Harden's coming back. You don't know how Van Biet is. Phoenix over Philly you would have now. I was going to pick Phoenix-Philly before the playoffs started, but then once the Lakers landed in the 7-2, then I just... Yeah. So I wanted to say Phoenix-Philly

for, I think, weeks before the season. But I also... You know, every Nets pick with me was worthless. Like, you shouldn't have listened to me on any of it because I was kind of just trying to do something different on the Philadelphia side. Because every time the Nets looked right, which now has not been the case for a week, I would just be sitting at home, you know, a little legal pad out. And I would just be like, why would you be picking against these guys? Why would you be picking against them?

And that's the other thing, like back to the Milwaukee part is that, okay they hit some threes today things worked out kairi leaves in the first half but the one question mark we had about brooklyn was their defense and even though there's some numbers that would tell you that they tighten it up a little bit more is like this is the this is the thing that they were supposed to be bad at and you guys can't score like do you know how bad this is right now like For three games, you look anemic on offense against this team that's only question mark was his defense. It's one thing if you can't really stop

them. No rim protection. Right. Now they're hurt. Whatever. They get him in game four, but the Milwaukee gets through the second round. All of it will be met with tempered enthusiasm from me. Like, look, if you're a Bucs fan, be happy.

You're in the Eastern Conference Finals. Like, whatever. People get hurt. It's part of it. I mean, every series, right? Mitchell Conley for Utah. Clippers don't have a Baca. Phoenix actually looked like they were going to lose Chris Paul.

They didn't. On the other side, it's Denver without Murray. Then you go Philadelphia. Embiid's got an MCL that apparently wasn't that big of a deal. They didn't. On the other side, it's Denver without Murray. Davis. Philadelphia. MB's got an MCL that apparently wasn't that big of a deal. Green's out. All right. If you want to go first round, you can keep going that, Davis. Nets are missing two of the three guys. Robert Williams.

48. Just long-lasting COVID effect. I have breaking news. My friend Ben Thompson, huge Bucs fan, who was on this pod a couple weeks ago, he's upset that he thought we were too hard on the Bucs in our part one podcast.

I'd expect Bucs fans to not like part one. That's fine. He said he wasn't alone with his opinion. I don't expect... No, that can be a nasty group. You're 2-2 and you think you're awesome right now. I think if you're being honest with yourself, Bucs fans, you would have liked the offense to look a little bit better

in one of the first three games. We're pro Bucs. I bet on the Bucs. I picked the Bucs to win the series. I haven't liked how they looked in these first four games. And I think if Kyrie doesn't get hurt, I still think the Nets win the game. I do.

I have no way to prove it. Your excitement is the other team isn't good now. Right. Your excitement is the other team was a three-man team that lost two of those three guys. I'm pretty sure the Celtics could have beaten Miami in 2012 if Bosh and Wade didn't play

in the Eastern Finals. I think we could have taken them. 2012? Yeah. I think we would have taken him. 2012? Yeah. I think we would have had a good chance. I will say, though, I did like what I saw from Middleton and Drew today. There was a physicality with Drew today

that I enjoyed. He's not that big of a dude, but he's tough. Drew's been really disappointing in this series. He was tough today. I liked him today. You didn't like him today? I think this was a really weird game. It's great they got the win. It's great they got the win.

It's great it's 2-2. It's great it feels like you're going to get out of the second round. But it's not an offense that I feel better about. Look, Game 3 shook me. Okay? Game three was like, are you guys seriously this clogged up and still can't figure out how to do this against the Nets? It's one thing if the Nets are going to beat you because they're making every shot, fine,

but you can't score on the Nets? So, yeah, it bummed me out. That's Neil Wach. Oh, that's a hairy man. Yeah. Oh, my God. Imagine having to play him. I'm surprised he wasn't more successful in the post

just because guys didn't want to brush up against him. He was really hairy. I'm going to give you some Neil Walk. Rainmaker. Some Neil Walk Wikipedia. Sadly, not with us anymore. Where did he go to school? He was a Florida Gator,

all-time Florida Gator rebounder. You can even see the hair. Wait, can you see that? The hair creeping out from- Oh my God. Yeah, he was a hairy dude, but all-time leading rebounder for the Florida Panthers. Some girls like that. Pick second. Did not last very long with the Suns. He said to author Charlie Rosen that he was one of the league's great booby prizes. I never paid attention to that bullshit.

How many guys would love to be the second overall pick? Played with the Suns for six years. Averaged 20- 12 in the 72-73 season. Not bad. And then went to the Jazz in the Knicks. Played in Venice. Played in Italy. Played in Israel. And that's it.

I would have loved to play in Venice in the 70s. There was this great run of NBA guys figuring out that they could go to Italy like Michael Ray Richardson and just light it up in the 80s for play until their early 40s and be able to be good and you get to live in Italy and get paid. Smart. Yeah, and the whole place is like...

That could be a good script for you. Just go to Italy. Yeah, but there'd have to be some... Neil Walk, the hairiest American player, goes to Italy to play for a year. I don't know. The stuff that's selling right now, there'd have to be some major twist. We can debate on that.

Before we go, you watched Mare of Easttown. I did. Speaking of great things that sold. So you liked it. I was pushing you to watch it. Spoiler alert. So we're just letting everybody know that hasn't watched it, right?

Leave the pod if you haven't watched Mare of Easttown. Okay. You've seen Out of the Furnace, right? Yeah. So Brad Engelsby, who grew up in these areas, he's got the whole PA thing down. I loved Out of the Furnace. He's actually got a brother, I believe, who's a basketball coach. So he's a big basketball guy.

And he just he just, he just knocked out of the park, man. It was, it was a very straightforward kind of mystery. Who done it deal, twist and turns. Everybody's playing along,

trying to figure out who murdered this girl. And I just thought the execution of it was, you know, it kept you engaged in trying to, you care, right? You cared about who did it. And that's the goal of

all of these shows. And he did a great job. Did I tell you what I thought the ending should have been? Did you know it was the kid the whole time? I didn't. So I wanted Mary to go up in the attic at the end, but instead of it, instead of fade to black, as we see the attic, she goes up, she gets her old, her old converses from the late 90s when she was, when she won the state title. People weren't wearing converses

in the late 90s. Were we, Nikes? Yeah. We would have been on Nikes by then. Jordan 12s? Grabs her Jordan 12s,

goes out, takes some threes, fade to black. Mayor, mayor, you know, good from 20. Like, I don't know. They didn't really go into the show, but yeah, pretty much a dead-eye shooter. Three-point line, I'm not sure was as big of a thing as it is now, but I think more of a mid-range game, like a Kiki Vandeway type.

Drive pull-ups. Yeah, a lot of that. From 12, just hammeringway type drive pull-ups. Yeah. A lot of 12, just hammering you at the elbow, physical, a lot of like offensive rebounds, stuff like that. But maybe not a lot of rebounds per game, but when you needed a big board, Merrill was going to get it for you. Well, they were saying like, should there be a season two? And I just think season two, she becomes a basketball coach. It turns into the way back was the Affleck movie. Yeah. Or Eddie.

Yeah. No, no. I think, I think it's more dark. It's like, it becomes a Pennsylvania girls, high school basketball drama.

And then we just, we go into that world for a year. She's got to recruit the, the, you know, Gino's coming to see her, all that stuff. And she's just trying to navigate that world.

And then obviously there's a murder. And then they, okay, let me know how that affects the game do you think they threw guy pierce in there as a total change up to be like all right this something's wrong with this creeper anybody that ever brings a novel to a bar and sits at a bar and reads like major red flags whenever we had guys when i was bartending that would show up to read a book, you'd be like, all right, we got to get this guy out of here before the kids show up. Um, so that was the book reader was always, should I call the police? Yeah. Right. So I think they threw guy Pierce in the mix and he's got this ratted out hair and you know, they ended up hooking up immediately. And by the way, like Kate Winslet's job, she was was awesome and i don't want to say like i was rooting for moles but like the way she went into this role looking like a little weathered yeah and

nailing the the vibe of this town and then you know the part of the script where he was like are you related to everybody and he's like yeah she just goes yeah because everybody knows everybody like it was just a it was all very believable in the execution of all these people in this small kind of blue-collar town. A little deer hunter, right? A lot of deer hunter. I've heard the Guy Pearce thing, people talking about it. We're both writers.

We've been known to write scripts and stuff. I actually think people don't do this enough. And I always think like the Sopranos when the Russian goes in the woods and we're just trained to think that guy's coming back and it's like, no, he's not coming back. We're never going to see that guy again. We'll never know what happens.

I don't think the red herring is used correctly enough with stuff. So Guy Pearce, it's like, well, he's so famous. He's got to be some reason he's so famous. He's got to, it's gotta be some reason he's in this. You just assume, right? Like I just watched the, uh, the Saw movie and there was an actor in the Saw movie where I was like, wait a second, this guy's too famous to be in this. I have to assume he's going to be coming back. And of course I was right. Guy Pearce thing was just purely a red herring. And they obviously just threw him a check. They're like, hey man, it's not a great part.

You get some scenes with Kate Winslet. She's won a couple Oscars. And you're the red herring, basically. And it worked. Because I kept waiting for him to... And then it never happened. Smart. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I always thought it'd be funny.

The studio probably wouldn't love it. But you write a script where Tom Cruise at the height of his powers, he's on the billboard, the whole deal, movie poster, and whole thing. It's a Drew Barrymore movie. And she died in the first scene and then kept it secret. It was like, oh my God, they killed her. They slid. Yeah. And she's great too. She's so good in the opening. Cause I was watching, um, I was watching die hard to the other night. Couldn't fall asleep.

Good one. And it's so good because you, your buy-in is perfect. And I love how, like in the second one, they go, hey, make sure when you send the fax, because you remember how the girl had the fuck me eyes in the first one? They're like, make sure she does that again in the sequel. Right at the back. When he's sitting there, yeah, getting the fingerprints on it.

And this is so stupid, I shouldn't even admit it. But it would just be funny if there was a 45-minute buy-in that Bruce Willis is this cop caught up in another ridiculous situation. And then all of a sudden you can fly. He didn't realize he had those powers. Right. And he's like, all right, I guess. And so like the movie just changes two times dramatically.

And by the time like it's the last 20 minutes, he's got the powers of like Magneto. And everyone would say this script is terrible but i just think it'd be funny if like an adam mckay type or somebody was like really established and get away with whatever he wants to would just go like i'd like to write a real american you know shoot them up thriller but then have two hard pivots that nobody sees coming and instead of being judgy about it, just see like if you get the audience to like, instead of recoil, like what the hell is going on?

See if you could actually execute it. Again, most anyone would laugh you out of the room, but I'm just, I think out loud right now. I would argue Die Hard 2 had one of the craziest flexes anyone ever did in a movie. They fucking brought down a plane full of people. Yes. During the movie.

Yeah. This is why I've been debating about whether it's a rewatchable or not. It's so disturbing. And then at the end, it's like, ah, John McQueen gets out of it again. It's like the whole plate of people dead. Like what? It's like, let's go get a beer. Um, I always thought it was like the craziest decision to just kill everyone on the plane.

I couldn't believe they did that. I'm not, I'm not saying it as like, oh, that's wrong. It's they're, they're, you know, they're not taking it heavily enough. How important it was just like such a crazy decision. Like it could have crashed and like a couple of people could have died, but they killed like 200. No, I mean mean think about all the movies that we grew up on like normally especially if you go to the first die hard

like when they were when they were killing guys they weren't killing anyone you were invested in or they were killing somebody who sucked like or who made a mistake yeah the bright guy yeah right yeah so you know you weren't it wasn't like the whole building felt like blew up and a whole floor people were killed right so that it's funny that you say that because when they crashed a plane full of people i was like oh like normally you wouldn't do that because i think i think the audience is always you know know, it's weird. Like we like sad songs, but we like happy movies. So like if you think of songs that you like, you know, and I'll go, you know, after a while, I'll usually like a band slower songs and the sadder songs, you know, I'll end up liking those. But with movies, there's a pretty clear formula here where, you know, hey, two hours escape and be at the theater and like, wait, you guys just killed a thousand people on a plane. And now John McClane's saying one-liners

and it still works. It still works. But I don't, it was a bad idea. No one does anything like that. I don't even know that I'm saying it's a bad idea. I think it's just funny how I, I processed it differently now watching it because I hadn't watched it forever. Because you knew it was going to happen. The first time in the theater, people are like, Jesus, this got dark. I remember, I haven't thought about 24.

I love 24. I watched 24 for years. And I remember 24 crossed the line like this. I can't remember what it was. They blew up the White House or they had a nuclear war. There was something where it was just like, Whoa, Hey guys,

this is my escapist television show. You just murdered everybody on it. What's going on? And I never felt the same about it after it's just, they just kind of, I don't know. You gotta be careful with this stuff. Anyway,

Mary V's town. Um, I think she's, she has to take over her old high school teams, vacant job, guy died, heart attack goes in. She's not going to be a cop. And obviously she shouldn't be a cop anymore. After she planted drugs, you should have lost your badge after that.

I don't care how many people you save after that. That's, that's not a one week suspension. You're done. You're off the force. So that comes back to honor ends up becoming a basketball coach. Then there's some murder she has to solve. Sign me up. Don't tell me there's no season two for Mayor of Easttown because there is.

Staring us right in the face. You're not selling me so far right now on her dealing with Gino Ariema. She's the high school coach and Gino Ariema shows up. I need more because the other cool thing of it was that basically it was two different storylines going on there where you were like, wait, are these things all connected? And it's like, nope, we're going to do kind of a Silence of the Lambs deal where we're chasing something down.

And this isn't really the main goal. And the main part of this is going to be later on. And then, you know, I guess you could say, like, why did you have to set us up every episode into believing it was somebody else? But that was kind of the fun of it. could say like why did you have to set us up every episode into believing it was somebody else but that was kind of the fun of it you know yeah whether it was roy from the office where you're like wait what's going on with this guy and you're like nah just kidding and you're like guy pierce why is this guy hanging out now he's just gonna leave um you know what's going on with this why did you know because it got a little not challenging to follow but when they were basically

sitting like wait a minute you're getting this guy to confess that he did it, but he was actually just doing it for the other guy. And then, okay, this is why they're saying it was a secret because it was the son. And that's why everybody was lying because they son, and then you realize, okay, when the son attacks the kid with a lunch tray, you're planting the seed that he has a serious temper and he's violent. And so, okay, now that makes sense. Although, you know, you couldn't really put it together. I don't know how many people were guessing that it was a 13, 14-year-old kid that was behind it,

but I doubt there were any. They laid enough breadcrumbs that it made sense when you found out, but nobody was guessing it. Oh, and by the way, is it John McArdle? I think he's from Scotland who plays the other priest.

Yeah. He stole every scene he was in. So when you thought it was him, cause he throws a bike over the bridge, that guy, I don't know that much about him. Um, I was looking him up. I think he's in his early thirties. I think he's from Scotland and he was like right away and all these different, you know, theaters and schools, like he was just going to be one of those guys. He was, I didn't know anything about him. And every time he was in a scene, he was unbelievable. Season two, Diana Taurasi trains with Winslet for like eight weeks.

Still not in? Season two, Embiid moves to East town. Gets involved with Kate Winslet. It's a younger man, older woman. People are like, what's going on? Episode three. Why are you dating a Sixers star? Is Embiid just complaining about Ben Simmons

not developing an outside shot? So Mare fixes it. So Mare meets up with Ben. I was reading Kevin O'Connor on The Rigger. You're actually shooting with the wrong hand. That's it. Yeah. That'd be great. Definitely more basketball in season two. I don't, I don't think that's a lot to ask for some sort of sports plot, whatever. All right. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Um, my son and I, we watched the saw movie with his friend Lucci and I really thought it was good. I liked it. I thought the newest one.

Good. Yeah. I think that was maybe my favorite Chris Rock movie he's ever done. Ever, ever. Yeah, I think it was. It's I mean, it wasn't there wasn't a lot of competition, but some people throw out five. Some people throw out a couple others.

Boomerang. New Jack. No, he wasn't. Oh, yeah, he wasn't Boomerang. New Jack City. But he's not like the star of that. But like for a Chris Rock... Oh, yeah, he was in Boomerang. New Jack City, but he's not the star of that. But for a Chris Rock starring movie, I thought it was really good.

Really, really liked it. That's actually a pretty good point. Now that I think about Chris Rock movies, there's going to be stuff from this in here, right? No. It's like Head of State. I Think I Love My Wife.

CB4? I mean, the most successful movie he ever did was Grown Ups, which is an iconic kids movie. I don't know if you knew that. I didn't. I didn't know that one. Grown Ups 1 and 2

are iconic. Pootie Tang? My kids, Pootie Tang, eh. My kids consider Grown Ups 1 and 2 on par with

how I feel about Godfather 1 and two. Not kidding. And it's not just them. It's everyone, their age, grownups, one and two are like massive movies.

Um, all right, we got to go. Kyle's Kyle's sending spoke signals to wrap. Rosillo. Congrats. Chris Paul appreciation night. Uh,

it went off without a hitch it was beautiful congratulations 8 wins to go we'll be back on this feed on Tuesday night I will definitely be waiting until after Bucks Nets to post something you have two more podcasts

coming this week as well a couple good guests you've been dipping into the X player well with a lot of success. There's been some good ones. Who was the last one you did? We had James Posey and Robert Ory was so good on the

Spurs Rocket series when David Robinson got the MVP and he told us on the pod, he goes, it's the only time I've ever seen a team like, all right, I'm going to just take it out on this guy right now. i think it was like 95 yeah and um it was it was pretty cool and it was you know he talked about akeem he was like look shack's dominant but akeem is a better player yeah and that um it made the rounds yeah i got a couple things i don't want to tease him because

luke wilson we ended up just pushing the interview back we still have a friend coming on to do the life advice so we have a writer writer and a fitness guy coming up. But I want to talk to Jared Jack. I think we're going to get him this week because he played in that Ignite team with the lottery picks there. And I think he's just because I've gone back

and watched his Ignite games to watch those two kids play. And I thought like Jared Jack was just trying to be professional and, you know, figure his basketball life out. And so I thought it was a pretty unique experience.

So hopefully he'll be a great guest for that. Can i make a guest suggestion for you and then we're really gonna go sure i saw van lathan this weekend van lathan has this hidden secret thing that i didn't know about he he loves high school basketball and football and has real opinions on the high school basketball top 20 recruits and shit like that. Like real opinions. I think then I can't hang with him. No, I think you should have him on

and treat him like he's Mel Kiper Jr. for the class of 20. He has Imani Bates takes. There's levels to it. Guys are worried about money based development. Yeah. He's like, he's breaking out of money,

Bates stats, field goal percentage shit. I'm like, cool. What, where have you been hiding this? So I think, I think you're going to have to bring them on to talk high school basketball. Cause I had no idea this was lurking inside him and you can hang with this

stuff better than I can. I don't know that I can though. I'm not going to be that great to talk to him about it. high school basketball. Because I had no idea this was lurking inside him and you can hang with this stuff better than I can. I don't know that I can, though. I'm not going to be that great to talk to him about it. This might have to be... I'm not. I love him.

Maybe you almost have to bring in him and like... Somebody else. Mike Schmitz. I'll just lay out, not talk for half an hour. Van at his spare time becomes one of the dominant

high school prospect guys. You should build a ringer page for him where he just thoughts, random thoughts. It's not even edited well. We talked about and we decided we couldn't do it because his voice is too distinct. We're just creating a character where Van pretends he's this other person. And we give them a podcast that it's like Bob Johnson's, uh, high school basketball corner. And he's just like doing, but it's really Van, but we'd never say it's Van.

And then we were like, no, people would be able to figure that out. It's Tom's younger brother that no one knew about. And he just makes fun of baseball the whole time too. It's like Tom got, got a wrong side of the tracks. My favorite thing ever is when you think, you know, somebody,

and then you find out some secret thing they have going on like that. I'm like, I'm just, I'm a, I love being surprised. I love being surprised by people in my life. So anyway, uh,

Rosillo pleasure. As always, I will see you out next Sunday. Uh, bucks Twitter. Be nice to us. Fair, stern,

but fair. And that was it for part two. Don't forget about part one, which is already up. So I will see you on Tuesday. I don't have feelings within On the way so I never said I don't have to ever say