The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part 4: Trade Deadline Winners and Losers With Kevin O’Connor, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann, and Wosny Lambre

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

In Part 4 of the NBA trade deadline podcast, The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O'Connor, Wosny Lambre, J. Kyle Mann, and Rob Mahoney to give out their winners and losers, including Kevin Durant, Steve Nash, the Bucks, Russell Westbrook, and more! Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kevin O'Connor, Wosny Lambre, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. All right, part four, last one. We're going to do winners and losers of the trade deadline. We have already done three. We've been going at this basically for two and a half hours. We're going to try to keep this less than an hour. Big Waz is still here. Kyle Mann is still here.

KOC is still here. Rob Mahoney has rejoined us. He floated around. He went to another ringer cocktail podcast party. The real ones had him over for some champagne and some crab and some lobster. And now he's back with us. We have no endurance for you anymore. It's been an eventful afternoon, but I can still fit into my cocktail dress. So we're killing it. We're keeping it going. Rob, we were talking at the last part of part three about,

do we like where the league is right now with this stuff? We were calling it the merry-go-round era because Waz correctly made the point, player empowerment era is actually kind of a misnomer for some of the stuff that's going on. It's a little different. It's more like the

people bouncing around era, but ultimately, do we like this? Because the key point is, we were saying how Memphis, Cleveland, Phoenix, Golden State are the teams everyone has gravitated to this year as, oh, I like these teams. And there's either distrust or antipathy

or dissatisfaction or whatever with a lot of the kind of created in a petri dish teams. Is this sustainable for the league and can they fix it? I think it's sustainable just because you have the contrast, right? Like you do have these cases,

but then you also have, you know, some more homegrown type teams, at least homegrown type superstars in guys like Giannis, for example, who can give you a counterpoint. Even in someone like Devin Booker, who has toiled through the bad years of the Suns and emerged on the other side. That's an important kind of face

to have in contrast to this stuff. But I think it makes for interesting stories. I think there's something... It's a little Shakespearean about giving someone like James Harden everything he thinks he wants in Brooklyn and him just figuring out that maybe it wasn't. Or Kyrie Irving or Kevin Durant or whoever it is that's moving around. There's something inherently kind of interesting about that. All right. Winners and losers. KOC, who's your biggest winner?

Biggest winner, Philadelphia 76ers. For waiting and getting a superstar in James Harden. And obviously, that needs to work out. Those guys will have to adjust to each other, etc. Like all that. But on paper, as we've talked about throughout, Bill, those two guys together with their supporting cast could be absolutely ludicrous.

So Philly is the winner of the deadline for me. How about Waz? How about the Daryl Morey legacy? Winner? He did it again. Pulled off another superstar. Morey's a winner. God knows I've talked so much shit about this guy um since basically the sixer season ended last year

the press conference where he said this might take four months four years to execute um just the general hubris the you know they re-signed i think they re-signed, I think they re-signed Danny Green. Somebody got re-signed last time. I forget. It's coming off my head. But he posted a snapshot of the five-man Sixers starting lineup and showed that this was the most, you know, effective as far as net rating starting lineup five-man in the league. I was like, really, Darryl?

Like, after that flame out in the playoffs you're just like what we have is pretty freaking good when they play on the floor so like i i don't want to say i owe him an apology but shoot he won he got it done man definitely got it done he also did that with the imbeed simmons thing where somebody like on a radio hit they were like is it gonna work and he was like absolutely and he quoted net rating, saying that it over like a thousand minutes. And I was just like, yeah, didn't quite work. Yeah. superstar or panic at the wrong time or make the wrong trade or wish you just had waited a little longer and stuff like that. He's pretty resolute. I got to give him credit. He's pretty resolute and I'm not making a trade that makes us worse than we would be if Ben Simmons played. So it's like there's a cat and mouse game with Ben Simmons where you get past deadline, hopefully you'll come

back and we'll still be better than with anyone I would have gotten in the trade. But on the other hand, they got somebody who actually might have made them better. So I feel like he's a winner. Kyle, would you go Steph Curry winner, loser, or TBD in this trade? Seth Curry? Seth Curry. I mean, I like he's going to be in a situation where he's going to be moving off of people. I mean, he's best when he's just sort of like guerrilla sort of moving in the gaps between stars. I don't think that Philadelphia has been able to give him the type of gravity.

I mean, he was with Dallas before where it was like all the offense was coming from one player. We've seen that between the triumvirate of Harden, Kyrie, and KD would create all these just open shots just because you had to get in the gap and respect what they could do one-on-one. I think that it's going to be big for him in that sense. I'd be curious. Do you all think he gets more open shots? I'd say he probably does in this situation. Whether or not he can make them and be different than Joe Harris, who couldn't make a playoff shot to save his life. Poor guy. But yeah, I think

it's a good situation for Seth. They were both good, but this is pretty... I'd say this is probably a little better. I really liked watching him play with Embiid, and I think it's so hard for guards to play with centers like that. And he kind of figured out another winner in this trade from the Philly standpoint. So Seth Curry moves to Brooklyn,

which means his wife, Callie Curry, also moves to Brooklyn. Who is a key part of the pop culture side of our Ringer Podcast Network. The other person lives in the New York area, Julia Lippman. It feels like this was good for the Ringer. I feel like we won.

I'm an only child. Put us under winners. Bill, I really thought you were going with the no longer has to work with his father-in-law. And I was like, that's a win, right? Isn't it? I would say that's probably a win too. Yeah, you get to see

him now in holidays. Yeah, that's it. Rob, Kevin Durant, winner, loser, or sideways? Oh, winner. Absolutely winner. Okay, explain.

Just because it was so clear by the end that James Harden didn't want to be there anymore. So hopefully Ben Simmons does. Hopefully the basketball fit, again, on paper in terms of talents, it all synergizes pretty well. But hopefully, moreover, you get some guys who want to be there. And even if we're just looking at the Seth in terms of talents, it all synergizes pretty well. But hopefully, moreover, you get some guys who want to be there.

And even if we're just looking at the Seth Curry part of that, somebody who can hit some shots would be nice. We've seen a lot of DeAndre Bembry threes this season, and I could really stand for fewer of those. So I really like the shape of what this could be for Brooklyn, of what it could be with Durant, but we just got to hope he's healthy. Because if he's healthy, they're it could be with Durant, but we just got to hope he's healthy.

Because if he's healthy, they're going to be a really tough team. Anyone have a counter to the KD conversation? Anyone want to weigh in? I mean, I think personally me, just hitching your wagon to Kyrie Irving can't possibly be a long-term win for anybody in the basketball sense. He's been so volatile, not just on the court. And I'll say this a million times, the guy's always getting injured.

So even if, you know, our great black mayor in New York City, Eric Adams, figures out a way to ease up COVID stuff and all of these other things. Will Kyrie Irving physically be able to play when the Nets need him the most? I think that's always a pretty shaky proposition, but I did want to mention somebody who's a loser today. And that's the Mavericks because Chris Dapps was a franchise. Was you jumping ahead on my outline? You just, you just called your own play. What's happening?

I started talking about Kyrie and I started feeling like it. I started channeling it. He channeled his energy. The spirit of Kyrie is that pervading. KFC, Steve Nash, I think is an unquestioned winner. Unquestioned. Except he now has to coach Ben Simmons and Kyrie Irving. Yeah. Well, I mean, so that's tough for Steve Nash in that sense.

But I think that's why I agree with Rob that KD is a winner here in the sense that Kevin Durant's legacy, however we define his story after going to Golden State, is, oh oh he joined the super team and he won there hey can he do it anywhere else well now we're talking oh hitching your wagons to kairi irving and ben simmons who just gave up 20 million dollars and sat out because his coach said he might not be a great point guard and because he failed and passed if he pulls those guys to the nba finals and it, doesn't that kind of reverse things for Kevin Durant?

Wow, he did it with Simmons and Irving? That kind of changes things and helps his legacy, I'd say. On the human interest side of it, yeah, sure. But then the other side of me is just like, oh, woe is me, poor baby, Kevin Durant has to take one of the best, most versatile...

He's going to come after me now. Woe is me, I have to drag one of the most versatile he's gonna come after me now but i mean you know what was me have to go back to drag one of the most versatile defenders alive i know we've like crapped on ben simmons alive in the past year but he is super talented and then and then kairi who might be the best i mean the most he's one of him and steph are like probably the two most like ball skills most skilled players ever it's uh it's a funny thing. There are a lot of just hypotheticals here. If this hypothetically happens, it's going to be interesting to see.

This is going to be an interesting sort of experiment to see how quickly a team can mesh and still have a chance to go the distance. What's interesting is they were able to salvage this season as a basketball team, right? The chance to actually win the title. They were able to salvage this season as a basketball team, right? The chance to actually win the title. They were able to salvage that,

assuming Ben Simmons can at least be 90% of what he was last year, which I have to say is an assumption at this point. But at least if you had unhappy heart in the rest of the season, I think we would all agree you're not winning the title that way. The other interesting thing is they got two first-rounders in the trade that they can at least have this summer to try to keep improving the team around KD and potentially Kyrie. So I was thinking loser Mahoney, Houston. Houston for three weeks here was sitting in this situation where super unhappy James Harden, if the trade doesn't happen,

he forces his way to Philly. Philly trades Tobias Harris to OKC with whatever to just get rid of him and then signs Harden. And the Nets have nothing. And now the Rockets have these picks and these pick swaps. But now it's like they have these picks

and pick swaps for a team that looks like it's going to be pretty good the rest of the half decade. And on top top of it they got no other assets in the deal right they they could have jared allen they chose not to have them they turned oladipo or caris averted oladipo into nothing so they have really no players to show from the trade at all and now it's like you're kind of keeping your fingers crossed with the picks and pick swaps i didn't like the trade when it happened i I still don't like it. Well, and loser within the loser.

I mean, Eric Gordon was probably packing his bags, thinking he was going to be playing for a playoff team. Tough break for him. Going to be finishing the season with the Rockets. I would say if you're Houston and looking at those future Brooklyn picks, maybe not so fast in terms of counting them out. We haven't seen this team play a single game. We haven't seen this team play a single game.

We haven't seen Ben Simmons play a single game. Great point. We have no idea what the future of the vaccine mandate in New York is going to be. A lot can happen in a couple months. And so I would say hold on to those and maybe cash your lottery tickets a little later. Any other winners, losers from this Brooklyn Philly trade? Kyrie, I don't even know what category it was.

Do you want to try to put Kyrie in a category? Kyrie's whole vision of his existence is that he has no boxes. He's free-flowing. He's like water that way. He's doing it for the art, though. You can't categorize that, man. I wonder...

I'm trying to think of the funniest outcomes of this trade. Kyrie taking Ben Simmons under his wing has to be up there. I don't know if it's number one, but it's like, the article two weeks later, Kyrie's been a big brother to Ben. It was like, oh no! Oh God!

Ben Simmons, he's just so lucky that he's doing this thing at Barclays and not the Garden, man. It would be so ugly for him so quickly if he was on the Knicks. This is just so perfect for him.

Do we see some Philly fans taking the ride down to Brooklyn? Well, he probably won't play in the March 10th game, but at some point... Wouldn't put it past him. Grabbing some seats in Barclays. Wait, we don't think he'll be ready to play by March 10th? It's a month from now? I would hope he's ready to play by March 10th.

Come on. He got to be ready to play by then. You know, another winner of the trade, KOC. Because he gets to... One of his favorite... It's like George Carlin with some of his great comic routines. KOC gets to do his Ben Simmons wrong hand. It's back.

It's reactivated. No, I mean, this is definitely a big win for me today. I've been saying for months, Maury should be patient. Then he gets James Harden. I've been saying for years, Ben Simmons shoots with the wrong hand. He needs to be in a system where he can screen

and short roll and be a playmaker, be Draymond. Oh, yeah. We're here. We're here. You did it. We're here. And now we're about to find out what Ben Simmons is really made of.

We're about to find out. Well, he had that. There was some somebody had a tweet. I think it was Woj about Rich Paulson. Ben Simmons is ready to roll and he couldn't be happier to join Brooklyn. All that stuff. I mean, honestly, this worked out great for him compared to what you were talking.

Some alternatives like Indiana, Sacramento. All right. Well, as you get to do it now, loser Dallas, let's move to Dallas. Yeah.

This KP thing, man, it was literally, I can remember the ridicule of the Knicks franchise. It's just being like oh my god you idiots you ruined the kp thing this guy was the greatest thing that ever happened to you now he's gonna go save dallas and raise them up from the ashes in the dirk nowitzki uh legacy and blah and blah and this and it's over it's over just like that with a whimper. Not even a second round appearance with the

KP and Luka pairing and they basically admitted defeat. You know, cut their losses and got him the hell up out of Dodge. That's crazy. They admitted defeat in the form of Davis Bertans. He was the white flag.

He's draped in a white flag. Rob, you weren't on the pod when that trade happened. Were you surprised that they just basically said Porzingis is just a damaged asset? We're just selling like he's a sunk cost? A little surprised. And less surprised that they traded Porzingis and more the players they got back.

Because, I mean, I'm sure you guys talked through the Spencer Dinwiddie part of this. I don't really see him as a fit next to Luka. I don't see him as a fit next to Jalen Brunson. I sure as hell don't see him as a fit next to both of those guys. How they're going to manage that guard rotation, I don't really know. And so, yeah, Chris Epps for Zingas.

Injury concern, obviously. Has not been a guy who's been able to finish playoff series for you, which is a big problem. This seemed like the Mavs swapping out their preference to have a guy who guys who could at least be out there versus a more talented player who could not, unfortunately.

Are we about to see the Mavs go all in on small ball? Because Chris Porzingis, you know, despite all the obvious flaws with his health and all that and the inconsistencies, the fit with Luca on offense, all of that. He was good on defense this year, better than he's been in some time.

For Dallas now, they got Maxi Kleba, Dwight Powell, Marquise Chris, Boban. This feels like a team. Kleba's not a room protector. He's more of a switchable, versatile perimeter guy. I feel like the Mavs, the rest of the season, they're built to play small

and only small, unless Boban's out there. Also, and Dragic was supposed to be a buyout guy for them, right? That was the big word in the streets, so they'd also be adding him. So are they going to be trying to attack with multiple guards, like a little like that OKC team that had CB3 and SGA

and Schroeder? A lot of that is contingent on whether or not Luka, how willing Luka is to kind of go off ball and embrace that. And, you know, one of the big problems, too, with the KP thing was they brought him in as a guy who was going to have, like, skill set synergy with what Luka does. And he wasn't the same lob threat that he was in New York.

He's not flying around. Like, if you can watch some of that New York footage, man, he was throwing his body around. It was just, like, scary. Of course, it ended up being bad. He got hurt. He was somebody that couldn't be a table setter for himself. He had to have the table. He was more of a patron than a chef. I'm curious about the Dinwiddie thing. Hypothetically, he and Bertans are hypotheticals. I think think for them to kind of move Porzingis along for these two hypothetical every time he blocks a shot, a certain amount of money is donated. He declined because he said he didn't figure that he was going to be there the whole season. So this has been.

Wow. So this is just something that hasn't been good for a while, basically. You know, last thing about K.P. And I remember that Nick Stretch, too. And I think I was writing. I did a unicorn piece for The Ringer at the time. And we were having a unicorn battle because we had Giannis and Embiid and Porzingis.

And it was like, it felt like this new era of these weird players we hadn't seen before with these tall guys who could do all these things. It's such a bummer that he got hurt in that game. I really do feel like he never was right ever since that day when he went down. I just never thought his lower body moved the same. We've seen this with other big guys, but, um, I really believed in that guy's talent.

I thought he was an excellent, excellent, excellent. Like this guy who was basically this stretch five who you could go to in big moments and he could actually create shots for himself. But then on the other end could just stand there with his hands up and you know it's it's a bummer because i don't even he's got to be what like 27 28 and it just feels like he's on the other end what are we gonna say cassie oh no i mean i i i think with kp like kyle like with the drafts i remember poor zingers remember the year before the draft when he pulled his name out? But then like that one year later, he gets better. He becomes a lottery pick.

Everybody thought OKC might take him the year prior. But like at the time, the vision of KP was this dude who could do everything on the court. He could run off of screens and shoot threes. He could. Oh, if he grows into his body, he can post up. It's just the health. His durability is so bad that just derailed everything and for Dallas I mean you traded for that upside when you got him from the Knicks and I think it was a worthy

gamble because of what the idea of what Porzingis could be going back to when he was playing overseas to going back to what he was with the Knicks it just didn't work out in this situation I don't it's a complicated deal. I'm not sure I would go as far as calling them a loser because I don't think KP's that good. And I don't think he's that reliable. He's a sub 30% three-point shooter this season. He has proven he can't stay healthy.

He's not somebody that you can lean on and rely on. And for Dallas, they don't get anybody back though that you can rely on, but I'm not sure Dallas, they don't get anybody back, though, that you can rely on. But I'm not sure you can expect to get that for Porzingis. And I really think this is about just like shuffling the deck, spinning it forward

and trying to become more versatile and flexible in the trade market by having two smaller contracts instead of the one bigger, longer term one. Like, I really think that's all it's about here for Dallas it's about like the money and get

it becoming more flexible to build around Luca I don't even think it's about this season three weeks on Twitter trolling Minnesota Timberwolves fans while KP was still on the Knicks and good that KP was better than if he had stayed healthy AP was better than Caltown. That happened. It was a three-week stretch, but that happened.

If he had stayed healthy, their trajectories were similar. I was just thinking when KFC was talking about him breaking down and skills. Bill, you were talking about unicorns. The common denominator there is we have stayed surprised by these big bodies, these skill sets working their way over time into these big frames. And it's like athletically, man, sometimes things are too good to be true almost. Like we're seeing it with Zion where it's just like some frames just can't quite handle the pressure over time and they break down.

I worry about that with Embiid. You know, what if KP had played like Kareem or something? If he had like a back to the basket game that wasn't as like dependent on facing up and cutting and flying around and stuff like that. It's just interesting to think about how it would have played out because he absolutely was on a path to be great. Well, another winner is all of us because now Joe House has Chris Steps Porzingis in his life. And I think the tweets, the texts, I just really look forward to it. Can I read you the 2015 draft, which I think is officially drunk when you go look at it on Basketball Reference.

Here's how the draft went. Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Jaleel Okafor, three. Porzingis, four. Marazonia, five. Willie Cauley-Stein, Emmanuel Moutier, Stanley Johnson, Frank Comiskey, Justice Winslow. That was the top 10. I mean, honestly, that. That was the top 10. I mean,

honestly, that might be the worst top 10 of any draft since the famous 2000 draft. Since Mike Miller? The worst draft of all time, yeah. That is like, Towns is the best player, obviously. But man, I mean, we might not get... Russell's an all-star. He was an alternate for the East.

So then we get, Turner was 11. Booker was 13. It's rough after that. The second round actually isn't too bad if you go look. Norma Powell is 46. Got Rashawn Holmes in there. Weird draft. And that was also the draft that Danny Ainge tried to trade four first

round picks for Justice Winslow, which had the trade happen, I probably wouldn't be here now. I'd be in jail. We're going to take a break and do more winners and losers. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance.

Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention,

and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, coming back. Winners and losers from today. Rob, let's hear a winner. How about a winner in abstract, a winner in minor movement? Phoenix Suns, who made some minor moves to improve their team. But more importantly, the Eastern Conference has turned into an absolute

meat grinder. And so if you're the best team in the West and looking at a team that's going to have to go through three tough rounds in a row, I think it's a good time to be a Phoenix Sun. I think it's a good time to be Devin Booker or Chris Paul or DeAndre Aydin. We covered that in the last part about

how... No, no, no, no. It's the right point. What a gauntlet it's going to be for at least one or two of those Eastern teams getting to the conference finals where it's like, what's the easy game? Or what's the easy series? Yeah, so Phoenix,

it's hard for me to call them a winner when they never should have told Jalen Smith, we don't want to renew your option for year three, which is basically free. And they wanted to cut costs. Look, I've been talking about this since they didn't give Aiton the extension. I'm convinced they will not pay the luxury tax. I don't believe it. I'm not convinced Aiton will be on that team next year.

I think they're all in on this year. They made the team a little bit better, Torrey Craig, but ultimately that team's playing so well, I think it would have been dumb to make a trade. There are a few teams heading into this deadline where like, don't do anything.

Like, I think Memphis was another one where it's like, don't do anything, guys. Ride this out. And I think Golden State, you know, whether if Wiseman was seen, Wiseman and Zion might be living

with Bigfoot in the Adirondacks or something. Like, nobody's seen any of them. I saw some clips on Twitter, I think yesterday,

of him doing some, like, on-court work. Was he walking? Nah, he was running. He, like, closed out on somebody. Oh, he was running. Wow. Yeah, Nah, he was running. He closed out on somebody.

Oh, he was running? Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was running. Can we confirm it wasn't a deep fake, though? No, we can't. Well, I wonder if he was healthy. Would he have been somebody that they moved? I agreed with their decision to stand pat. I think Cleveland already

made their move. It looks like they bought at a pretty smart price for Levert, considering some of the other stuff that we've seen. I was kind of hoping New Orleans would do something wacky today, like to piggyback the McCollum thing, but they didn't do it. KSA, is there anybody that you felt like should have made a move and didn't, like that you're actually upset that they didn't make one? The Utah Jazz coming out of deadline week with only Nikhil Alexander Walker and that trade package.

I mean, like this is a team. I don't I can't take seriously, you know, saying that they're a contender right now. I don't think you can go into a playoff series in this gauntlet in the Western Conference, Phoenix, Golden State, and expect to get through it with, you know, Boyan Bogdanovich, Royce O'Neal, Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell as your defenders on the perimeter. So unathletic, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think Conley locks in sometimes, like Mitchell, like he's going to really have to buy in.

Gobert had that quote weeks ago about like, oh, you see Devin Booker. People used to say he's not a good defender and now he's bought in every night this jazz team is going to need that from like five different guys and I just don't think it's enough I would have loved to have seen them go after Jeremy Grant somebody like that because they

need wings and if they're not going to get him now which they didn't they have to get him in the other way I I think whatever they did it wasn't going to matter not enough I think there's such a distance with them. They are now in, please, let's not have Donovan Mitchell give an interview to Chris Haynes talking about how Utah's on the clock mode would be my guess.

And Memphis was coming for them anyway, like after last year. I mean, they were like right there. They're a team that Memphis is going to leapfrog, I think, this quarter. It feels like, yeah, it's a switching places thing. And Waz, Utah is now heading toward a really ignominious playoff spot right now.

I think they're this year's team that other teams in game 81 and 82 might be tanking to try to play in round one, which is not where you want to be. Where it's like, well, Dallas started nobody tonight. They really want to play Utah. I think which is not where you want to be. Where it's like, well, Dallas started nobody tonight. They really want to play Utah. Like, I think that's going to be the team.

Yeah, and it's sad because, you know, I was really high on them last year. Was really high on them this year. Even after the collapse, I'm just like, at a certain point, man, when you embarrass yourselves like that, you have to come back and, like, show some level of metal and, you know some pride in what you do and it's gone the opposite like rudy and donovan are back sniping at each other in the press and you know i talked about i talked about this with sarah todd who who was one of their beat beat people yeah that was out there on our pod'm like, man, like this guy's calling out teams by name, saying they're building

championship, uh, uh, you know, uh, habits. And he's calling out other teams, star players, star perimeter players by name. I'm like, this is not a good thing, you know? And so once it goes it starts going that way, you guys aren't Kobe and Shaq. You can't do all of this stuff in the press,

be this dysfunctional, hate each other this much, and go to the finals. You're not good enough to do that. You're not even a documentary. You're possibly a narrative podcast, but not a documentary. You're possibly a narrative podcast, but not a documentary. Coming from Bill, that hurts.

I love narrative podcasts. I'm just saying, they're not a documentary. I love that call out, though. I love that Devin Booker is like a third rail issue for Donovan Mitchell. You cannot bring up his name in that kind of context

without it being insulting. Yeah, it's the best feud that's not actually a feud yet. If Rudy Gobert demanded a trade and or if the Utah Jazz tried to move Gobert, who would want him? Who would the target be for the Jazz to try to make something of Donovan Mitchell

and Mike Conley? Is there anything there this offseason? Just thinking ahead, like if they fail and fall flat on their face again. Or do you open the door with Mitchell? The merry-go-round is starting again! Here we go! I'm just asking the question, though, because I think

for Utah, they hired Danny Ainge to run this. I expected there to be more activity. I thought they would try to do more and be aggressive and be like, yeah, Detroit, we'll give you what you want. The Ingalls injury shouldn't have paralyzed them to the point

where Alexander Walker is their big move. Is Mitchell, Rob, is Mitchell right now number one on our, I wouldn't be shocked if some sources Mitchell unhappy looking to get out this summer? Is he number one or would you still have Dame there?

It's hard to supplant Dame and even Brad Beal now. I can't imagine Chris Absporzingas is changing his world in the long term. But of the guys we haven't talked about ad nauseum, Mitchell seems like the logical candidate just because

we don't know what they're doing. I think you're right Bill. It's not even that they're a winner or a loser. We need to go full nihilism with the Jazz. What are they supposed to do to solve their perimeter defensive issues here?

If they weren't going to make a Levert-type trade in which the Cavs traded a pick and Ricky Rubio's contract, if they weren't going to do that with Ingles' contract, I don't really know what they were supposed to do.

I'm excited because now that football's ending and I'm throwing myself into really trying to figure out what's going to happen with basketball as we go through the playoffs, I don't want to have to watch like 20 teams really closely, right? You want to narrow it down a little and you want to have the teams where

you go, like this is always a big Verno thing. I don't have to watch them that much because I know what they are. I know who they are. Utah. I feel like I might be able to just skip. I might just be able to, to delete the season pass for my,

for my cable DVR of the Utah season. Like how I haven't watched Ozark yet. I might just be good. Now they, they beat up the banged up warriors last night by like 30. They're not dead yet. Okay. All right. All right.

So maybe I'll take a break. But yeah, in general, I would be delighted if they just were out. Because there's other fun West teams, right? Well, who's on the opposite side of that? Like who got more interesting today? In the West?

Anybody. Who's moving up your league pass rankings right now i'm well they after what i saw from the kings last night i think that's me too the kings are like the drunk guy in the bar that you're just like what's that guy gonna do keep an eye on him yeah oh my god he can either buy him a drink to get kicked out i can't wait to watch this he keeps tapping that big guy on the shoulder what's he doing? Sabonis is already running high screen, like little Bill Walton dump-off passes to cutters.

Mitchell looked like he was delighted. But just in general, it's such a weird team. I'll definitely give them a whirl. Yeah, I would think... Who knows? The Clippers are probably the X-factor because... I still don't know why they traded Ibaka. I don't understand at all.

But Norm Powell, they clearly won that trade. And then if Paul George doesn't get the surgery, which I'd be dubious of, but let's say he doesn't, and then they can potentially get Kawhi back. I mean, that's our what-if team, I think, in the West. Yeah, I've been interested in the T-Wolves all season. I want to see what they do like obviously they kind of just chilled during the deadline which i think is the right thing to do right like these guys should be growing and building together and like

this group should have to achieve the playoffs together like i think that would be big for them going forward so i'll definitely be watching the Timberwolves for sure. So you're going winner Timberwolves just by keeping this weird nucleus together and they're 29 and 26. I think I agree with you. Because for them, it's like every year after the All-Star break,

somebody makes a jump, right? It's always somebody under 25. I remember Tatum, it was for a couple of years ago. We had that incredible Davis run in 2018 where all of a sudden he was like Tim Duncan, 2.0 Edwards would be a first round draft pick for, could he be the guy where he just makes this leap after the all-star break? And there's a couple other guys like that,

but Edwards to me, I could see him going on like a crazy run. I do think he has it in him. It does seem like he's getting better. His confidence is growing and just in general. Anybody else? KSC, who else would you have? How about, I mean, I know it didn't happen today, but the Pelicans

in terms of moving up those league pass rankings, I'm excited to see if Zion comes back, when Zion comes back, him and CJ McCollum and Vernon Ingram, how those guys play together. How does Jonas Valanciunas' role develop? Because he's kind of a heavier usage center.

So there's going to have to be some sacrifice in that team now. So I'm very intrigued to see how the Pelicans develop throughout. And also, I can't get enough of watching Herb Jones. I got to watch Herb Jones all the time. When I watch the Pelicans and they're on defense, my eyes are glued onto Herb Jones.

Just fun to watch him. Kyle, I have the Bucs as a stealth winner. They get Ibaka for nothing. They also open two roster spots. And I think they are probably the number one draft pick

for who is the buyout teams out of everybody we have. And I don't really know. Maybe they're a Dragic destination. I can't figure out Dragic. I can't figure out does he not like cold weather? What happened in Toronto? I've never gotten a straight answer on that one. Did he just think he was

going to Dallas the whole time? But I'd like where Milwaukee is right now. And what would you add if you had to from the bio market? What's the one piece of backup point? I mean, I think that the surge thing is hypothetically, I keep using that word. I know because that's if it if it works out for them, it really depends on what they have left because he fits schematically, like stylistically what they like to play. Like over the past few seasons, he has historically been a pretty good drop defender. Whether or not he can still shoot the ball is going to be a big question. If you can just pad that with some more shooting too in case.

It's always good to have wings. It's always good to have shooting. But the surge thing, it could swing up for them you know i don't know it's it's a big i think it was a worthy swing i was talking to rob about this over text earlier that considering the market i think you're right it was a big win for them considering what they could get like earlier they were tinkering with boogie cousins that's kind of where they were that was the if you're in that range take a flyer on Serge for sure. His movement has been just steadily declining over the years. You know, definitely a buddy-heeled candidate with Serge Parker.

How old is he? Traditionally. But, you know, I like the move just because he does provide some spacing and he'll be able to easily adapt to what they're trying to do on defense. Of course, folks at home can drink. Still on the Hawks. I'm still on the Hawks. I just love what's happened since Okongu has come back,

and he's getting minutes, and he's healthy. He's just such a force on defense, man. He just changes how they feel defensively with his intensity and he's guarding all kinds of dudes so obviously i'll still be watching the hawks they're still my number one league pass team uh but yeah definitely still excited about that and you know of course the knicks are just y'all y'all done with the playing y'all done with everything it's so can we circle back to the Bucs for a second? Yeah, let's do it.

Because, Bill, you said they gave up nothing for Ibaka, which I think in aggregate, I'm not going to be the guy who stands up here and tells you Dante DiVincenzo is a hugely important player. But he was their best trade asset. And I think what they did give up was really any flexibility in terms of who's playing on the wing. They have to feel really solid

about the Wes Matthews minutes right now. And that's not exactly where I would want to be if I'm trying to win a championship. That's the only place I'd be a little nervous just because DiVincenzo has started trending up since he came back from injury a little bit. I wonder if they plugged one hole. They needed a big, they needed a guy like

Ibaka, but I think they might still need to fill that other one of someone who can give them something on the perimeter in what used to be DiVincenzo's minutes. So I assume that's going to be a buyout guy, right? And that's the easiest position to find a buyout guy, I think, is that perimeter spot. Go ahead, Casey.

How about Gary Harris as a buyout guy? I've heard his name a bunch this past week that if he didn't get dealt, Gary Harris is a likely guy to get bought out. He's been, you know, he's struggled the last couple years. He's been good this year for Orlando. Somebody like that makes some sense to me. Because you're right, Rob.

I mean, you want to add more wings behind that after giving up DiVincenzo. Gary Harris feels like a number one target for the Bucs. I'm just psyched that Steve Cerruti has been sitting in on this entire three-hour Zoom. The Orlando Magic finally got brought up for him. I know it's got to be delighted. The reason I thought the Ibaka

thing was so important, just from a playoff standpoint, I didn't like that Milwaukee had lost their malleability from last year with being able to go bigger or smaller and being able to use Giannis depending on what the situation was. And I don't know, Brook Lopez might come back, he might not, but Ibaka at least makes me feel a little better because ultimately they're going to have to play Philly, you would think, in one of those rounds. And if really you're just crossing your fingers that Giannis lineup is going to be your lineup, I don't love it. Can we talk about my Celtics?

Yes. The team was playing well. The team was playing well. Now, it was a little smoke and mirrors because of the schedule, but they did have everybody healthy. They basically trade Richardson. They trade

Romeo Lankford. They trade Dennis Schroeder. They trade Romeo Lankford. They trade Dennis Schroeder. And they trade a protected first-round pick. And they get back Daniel Tice and Derek White. Are the Celtics... I'll start with you, KFC. Are the Celtics in a better place than they were 24 hours ago? I mean, I feel like they're kind of in the same place

just with the different cast of characters. But I do like Derek White. I like Derek White. I mean, he's a solid player. He's a good defender. I mean, for them, I think they're maybe slightly better, but it's not too different than what they were before. I like how you said that twice to convince yourself of it.

You were like, I like Derek White. I like Derek White. He had an epiphany as he was talking about it. It did seem like they were a little bit chemistry moves here because Langford,

one of the many young guys who wants to play. Derek White, beloved teammate by all counts. I think Richard's saying there's been good buzz on him as a teammate this year, but Schroeder has always been hit or miss.

He's in that kind of Montrezl Harrell zone of, is that guy a good teammate? Why does that guy keep getting passed around? Is that something we say when we're trying to convince ourselves that's a good deal? Like, oh, he's a great locker room guy? Because usually the players we know are great. That's not brought up. Yeah, I'm flailing right now, KC.

You saw right through me. I'm talkingailing right now, KC. You saw right through me. I'm talking about chemistry. I mean, Derek White and Marcus Smart as your backcourt, I just feel like guys are laying off them. Derek White has, he's like a 31% three-point shooter this year, and Smart

could go 0 for 9 or 2 for 3, whatever, but I just can't imagine those guys logging a lot of minutes. Waz seems like just unimpressed by the Celtics. Yeah, I just don't, I just don't see it. God damn it! I just don't see it. It's not like they added any playmaking, which they didn't.

Or if they added somebody like, like a Seth Curry, where when he's doing his off-ball stuff, that's able to, you know, soften up a defense for your one-on-one guys. Like, they have to pay attention to off-ball actions when it's a shooter that dynamic. I don't think they've done anything to change the ecosystem of their offense for real. Like, Derek White doesn't shoot.

He's not elite at playmaking. So he didn't change anything for them offensively, which I think is going to be important. Counter? Can I have a counter? Is it Daniel Tice? Should I lie? Is Daniel Tice the counter?

I mean, we literally just droned on and on about how the East is a meat grinder now. And the Celtics basically circled the block. I'm looking for Derek White upside. So Murray established himself as like a really good point guard. You know, like somebody that I actually think Philly could not have gotten Ben Simmons for.

White, who I think is a point guard, but was the name of the play, maybe as much point guard as he thought. Maybe this is a better point guard situation. God damn it, I'm flailing. We just seem like we went sideways. Well, I mean, I think with Boston, Brad Stevens

has always talked, when he was a head coach, talked about having five guys on the floor that can make a play, that can pass. And Richardson is a solid player, but he's not necessarily that guy creating off the dribble and creating for others or himself. He plays off of others. I think in that that sense now you're talking about lineups that are gonna have smart white brown

tatum williams or horford in there and in that sense or grant williams for that matter a good passer for his his position i i think that's probably the direction that boston wants to go to derrick white is just you know he's good if. If he were a more consistent shooter year to year, I'm not sure San Antonio is doing this deal. But for Boston, you're just, you're essentially getting a similar level player just with different characteristics. And in that sense, I think they get slightly better.

But it's not like anything significant that changes how we talk about the Celtics and what they are and what they can be. What will change the Celtics is if Smart continues to play like he has the last two weeks. If he plays really smart, unselfish basketball and isn't like, I've got this. Like what he's done and the way he's recommitted to the defense and him kind of admitting like, all right, you don't, you don't think we have a point card. Watch this.

That's probably the best outcome for that. But ultimately Tatum going up a level is the only way this team is going to make a dent in the East. The only other trade that, uh, I guess we should talk about it. I don't know if this is a winner or loser, but Charlotte did get Harold and they didn't trade PJ Washington.

Right. Who I kind of like. I know people are down on him, but I don't think he's a— I kind of like him, too. I like that he can shoot. I don't think he's exactly— I love PJ. I think he's a good player.

You don't want to leave him open in the last three minutes. Have you noticed that? He will knock him down. Yeah, and i think bringing montrez in there is dope i i would love to see how a pick and roll chemistry can be developed between him and uh um lonzo because excuse me not lonzo lamello between him and lamello because i remember the lou will pick and roll with him on the Clippers used to be so potent. Like the timing that they had when he would flip the screen at the last minute.

It was like so good. And he hasn't been able to develop that yet with anybody else since Lou Will went to Magic City. Well, LaMelo is perfect for that. Yeah, LaMelo. Yeah, he is. He is. He's an incredible pick and roll operator.

So I'd love to see if they could get something going. When the energy feedback loop of LaMelo pushing, of Trez running the floor, there's a good synergy there that I think could be really productive for them. I like that the Hornets didn't break the bank for a Yaka Pirtle, a Rashawn Holmes. Like these centers who aren't going to change their life

ultimately, they got a guy who can help them, but they still have the ability to go get a better center down the line. Because Trez, bless him, useful player, he's not going to solve their rim protection issues, their defense issues. That's just not what he's there for. Alright. Winners and losers.

We've talked about this team a little, but we got to just run it back. Rob, you weren't here when we talked about them the last time. The Los Angeles Lakers. I'm giving the all caps loser for the Los Angeles Lakers. Bill, stop it. Such joy. Listen.

You are too heavy right now. I've hated the Lakers my whole life. Just let me enjoy this. My team traded my whole life. Just let me enjoy this. My team trainer for Daniel Tice. Let me enjoy this. Lakers. Loser. Rob, there's no way out.

Is there a way out? Do you send Westbrook home? What do you do? There's no way out. Stock your bunker. Get down in there. It's going to be a long haul to really undo

some of what's going on with this team. The Westbrook thing, it seemed like something that would have to be resolved in the offseason if you can unwind it. It's going to have to happen then.

The deadline was not a reasonable expectation. John Wall was not a reasonable pipe dream. This is a team that is stuck. And that is the problem with trading for Russell Westbrook in the first place is he commits you to a style of play. He is a team that is stuck. And that is the problem with trading for Russell Westbrook in the first place is he commits you to a style of play.

He commits you to a cap sheet. It's hard. And I think they earned their deadline loser, not today, but months and months ago when they committed to this thing in the first place. Oh, it's like a permanent loser. I tried to delude myself last time because at first I was like,

this is so clearly the dumbest trade last time because at first I was like, this is so clearly the dumbest trade of all time. But I was like, what if he could come in and be a role guy? What if he could come in and execute the things that Schroeder was doing

or Rondo did before? Like, they didn't have to do that much. Why can't Russell Westbrook just come in and do what they did? But then, you know, and Rob very politely said, Fuzz, no. No. That's not what he did. But then, you know, and Rob very politely said, Waz, no. No, that's not what he does.

I tried. He's not going to change. Waz, we were talking about this off-air. It's like, is Russ, can you think of a superstar who is more rigid than Russ? Like, unwilling to evolve. Bill, you're a history guy. I can't think of another one. I mean, and it

was just funny. He's out of the 80s. No, it's like out of of another one. I mean, and it was just funny. He's out of the 80s. No, it's like out of like the 1980s. There were guys like this that just, you know, they would get their stats, but you had no chance. But Dantley was on good teams. Like he was on playoff teams. The thing with Russ is he just,

I just didn't think he was a winning player anymore because of all the stuff he needed to do to be happy as a basketball player. It just was at metrogods with how a team could succeed. Like he doesn't, you know, like even see now, like he'll still take like these big threes at the end of games. Like he's Ray Allen.

And this has been his whole career. He's like, he's the ultimate irrational confidence guy. That's going to be his legacy. It's like, it's not Deanne Waiters. It's actually Russell Westbrook. He had so much rational confidence.

He won the MVP. But ultimately, can you win with him? We just really haven't seen it. What do you got, KFC? When I was getting hired by The Ringer in 2016, Chris Ryan asked me to write just a sample. I wrote something about Russell Westbrook, and we ended up using her for the site of the Russell Westbrook Roadmap in 2016.

And it was about how KD left, and Russ is about to be in control. Remember when he tweeted out that video, like, now I do what I want? And I wrote in that article how Russ, to sustain success and continue, maintain this level of play, is going to need to change and evolve his game.

I've been on this for years now. So I think with Russ now, we're at a point, for the first time, athletically, skills-wise, he has declined so much since that point. For him, he is officially now in this spot. I know everybody hates when I say it, but you give me a better idea than Russ deciding, you know what, I'm only going to shoot four or five times a a game i'm going to put all my energy and focus onto everything else because

if he doesn't do that it's over it's done it's done so like this we're at the point here where russ has to do something to salvage this otherwise it's all over for the lakers and possibly for him so like that that's my perspective here with Russ. He should have seen this years ago while he was still winning MVPs, but he didn't because of his own stubbornness because of his own self confidence. But now you've failed. You are at rock bottom and every Lakers fan knows it.

Even Russ stands aren't standing up for Russ anymore. He's at the point now where he needs to change or it's over. It's over. Well, winner. Everybody who loves James Worthy in the postgame show. Oh, James Worthy. Huge renaissance. HBO Max. They could have picked that show up. Wow. Shouts to James Worthy

by the way who we're talking to for Full Court Fits tomorrow morning. Oh, you got Worthy on. He's so good. I've been on this since though with that weird when Nick Young was there

and Russell and all those guys and they would go to James after the game and he really loves the Lakers. Like Magic. Yeah. I know Magic loves the Lakers too but when he does the tweets

and stuff you're always like wondering what his agenda is. James is on after the game and he's like a dad who just was at his daughter's lacrosse game and can't believe they blew it with a minute left.

He's just bleeding purple. He's so into it. The only guy I can think of like that was how Heintzen was with the Celtics forever as the announcer. He really loved them. Every call he thought was the worst affront ever but i enjoy the james stuff so i think that's that's a winner james worthy fans well speaking speaking that ties back to what we were talking about earlier

some earlier if if we if the merry-go-round thing continues that's something that we stand to lose i mean if if we if we lose guys having tenure like that James Worthy he's not from LA is he I'm pretty sure is he from I mean he went to North Carolina yeah I was just saying I don't know if that's something we stand to lose in the future yeah like who belongs where yeah you know I I think about that a lot because you know we have all the banners in Boston you can look up and most of the guys were there the entire time the recent ones like KG who knows if they're going to do Ray Allen

Waz is smirking but we a lot of guys who were just there their whole careers and now like where does LeBron in the basketball hall of fame I assume he goes in as a Cav he's going to go in as a Cav he did 11 years there he did 11 you made it sound Cav. I guess. He did 11 years there. He did 11. You made

it sound like prison. I guess. But he peaked in Miami. It's just weird. We're in a weird stage. Who does James Harden go in as? A Rocket? He quit on the Rockets. Is his bus going to quit? Are they going to quit making it

two-thirds of the way through? It's not finished? The last part's not brought? They do his beard, but his forehead's not brought? It is definitely a strange era. Couple more winners and losers before we go. Knicks loser to me. I had heard that the Knicks

were in on everybody. Watch out for the Knicks. I know they made a run at McCollum. They obviously made a run at Darren Fox because that leaked out, but ended up getting nothing. And they still have this fundamental problem of, I think we all kind of like Obi Toppin, but he can't play enough

because he plays the exact same position as their unhappy superstar who they just stupidly gave an extension to. And Rob, if you're the Knicks, do you try to become a play-in team? Do you try to play the young guys more? What do you do? What's your goal last 30 games?

I think trying to become a play-in team is their real... That's their only course. Because they're a team that is invested in the idea that they are going to be able to trade at some point to entice another star or clear cap space and sign one at free agency. I don't think you do that unless you're at least competent. Unless you can at least get into 10th

place in your conference. It just becomes such a hard sell from that point. You know the roadmap for them though. Go ahead Wes. The worst part about it is I was talking to a buddy of mine who, you know, he goes to a lot of Knick games last week actually and he was like

look, here's the problem with Julius Randle. Last year was great you know the team was winning he was making his mid rangers it was great he was happy he was high fiving this year things are not going great but he's sulking the whole time he's like don't ruin my viewing experience

with this sulking and messing up the feeling and the atmosphere and it's like you know it just reminds me of what makes people like Steph, people like Dame special. They don't sulk. Even when things are going bad, they make everybody feel like it's a process. And, you know, let's stick together in this whole thing. And Julius Randall, I know Newsflash, he's not Steph. He's not one of these reliable franchise pillars. He's just one of these reliable franchise pillars.

He's just a guy who had a great season last year and now has come back down to earth. But yeah, they have to chase the 10th. What else are they going to do? You know, getting a 10th pick in the draft is going to change this team? This brings me to a very important question. Kyle, turn the fucking camera on for this one. Brooklyn in the eighth spot right now at 29 and 25. Charlotte's 28 and 28. Atlanta's 26 and 28. And you have the Knicks at 24 and 31.

And Waz and Rob just laid out the case why the Knicks are not going to roll over. They are five games behind the Nets. Is there a world where the Nets miss the playoffs? Where they miss the playing game? Hold on, Waz. KD said he's not back for three more weeks. Kyrie cannot play home games. We have no idea when Ben Simmons is going to play again. And right now this team is basically Seth Curry,

LaMarcus Aldridge, a little bit of Kyrie, and some Andre Drummond. This could be the Drummond-sants could be upon us. But there's a world where we could be two weeks left and the Nets could be the 11th seed. Am I crazy? None of you guys see this? I just don't think the Knicks are going to go on some incredible win streak. That's a one. And two, when KD does finally come back, it's do or die. Their playoffs basically start once he comes back,

and they'll start ripping off wins. But they played 54 games already, and if he's out three, four more weeks, that's another 10 he's missing. But Bill, but you also know, cause you're the one who pioneered this. Even me, even noticing this all those years back, this is the time of season. Oh, my arm hurts. Oh, I got a backache. Oh, a bunch of those teams are going to start players. Just going to start peeling off. And the teams that really want to win because they have to are going to be fine. I think the Nets are going to be good.

Anybody worried about the Nets? Because I'm going to tell Kyle to turn the camera off. Nobody's worried. Nobody's with me. It's not inconceivable. They're not one injury away on top of all the other injuries. It's one more bad thing away from like they might be in danger. Nobody's

with me. I mean, we're all one bad thing away from danger. I mean, the asteroid is coming for all of us. Global warming is coming for all of us. I mean, Brooklyn's already lost nine in a row. Yeah. And there's still five games up on the Wizards and the Knicks, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think a lot

more would have to go wrong for the Nets and a lot would also need to go right for the Knicks that it's kind of hard to project going right for the next right now like they have some guys in and out of the lineup as well i mean to me the next if they they probably are going to compete for a playoff spot you know big market team don't want the team to win they're trying to continue you know looking like an appealing you know destination for somebody but But if you're speaking strictly in a vacuum what they should do, they should be wanting to slide the other way,

in my opinion, and get higher draft odds and add another young guy to this group or just have that asset. Because even with higher draft odds, you get a higher pick. You don't need to keep the pick. You can use that to get a guy.

So to me, that's what the Knicks should do. But I don't think they will do that. To your point, so they've lost 11 of their last 13, the Knicks. The Knicks were 22 and 21. Oh, no.

Yeah. Now they're 24 and 31. So they've lost 10 of their last 12. Here's their next few games. At Golden State. At Portland. Home OKC. Home Brooklyn. Home Miami.

Back-to-back against Philly. Phoenix. And then they have this West Coast trip right after the All-Star break. Phoenix, Clippers, Sacramento, Dallas, Memphis, Brooklyn. They're just on the road. Damn. I don't know. I don't know if they come out of that that seems like a D-U-N done

D-U-N done so maybe the case for Brooklyn is how do we avoid not at least having one home playing game because what they don't want is if you're 9 or 10 and you're on the road for both of those and

do or die games we kind of saw how that worked out for you know last year where golden state was like oh it's gonna be so awesome when golden state makes the playoffs then it's like wait memphis is beating golden state what's happening so brooklyn's on the road you know against charlotte and against atlanta or against boston that's not ideal but But that means Kyrie gets to play. True. Interesting. What a zag by Mahoney. So Brooklyn needs the 10th seed so Kyrie can play in the playoff games. Now we're going full Galaxy brain on this.

Oh, that's a great one. They want to finish 8th or 7th or whatever. Brooklyn's very focused on the tenth seed. That'd be a woosh tweet. They can maximize Kyrie Irving's play in time. That's incredible. Another winner. Brian Windhorst.

Our guy. My boy. Never gave up the fight. Kept telling us. The talks have not stopped. Oh, my God. Pretty good. Can I just say something really quickly about the fucking news-breaking wars that's just hilarious?

Please do. Like, look, Wendy is clearly a plugged-in dude. He knows what the hell he's talking about and more than anything he's one of the most measured dudes in our business he will not go out on a limb and just start making declarative

statements and declarations like it's not agenda it's like no I talked to somebody who's credible and like these things are happening. But I will say this harkened back. This was fucking great. This harkened back to what me and my buddies affectionately call the Gordon Hayward situation.

When Haynes was like, yo, Hayward's going to Boston. And then it was like, oh, because Hayward's people were scared of Woj. And it was like, oh, we just wrote the essay today and all of that. And it's just like, what are we doing, people? This news, if it becomes official, we will all know it. Today, tomorrow, or the day these fools suit up for the next team, let's please just all just calm down. But shouts to Wendy for winning that one.

Against his own teammate, allegedly, I heard. This is what KSA and I, when he joined the ring, we talked about this, about information. Because once you... That just becomes your job if you're trying to break the information, right? So at the ringer, we made the

decision, we want to react to the information. We don't care about the actual process to get the information. I thought this was one of the most bizarrely reported stories the last couple of weeks because there were leaks everywhere, right? But at some point, Harden was done and they started talking trades. And by over the weekend, we knew Seth, or at least I knew Seth Curry was involved. And that if, if that was a touch point for them, Seth Curry has to be in this, we need to still be good this year if this happens. So we've done that for days. And then publicly they're going, Nope, they haven't talked. No talks yet. It's like, what,

what are we doing? What alternate universe are we trying to create where we know you guys are talking trade, but you're pretending you're not? I thought it was very strange. Isn't that why it's so important anytime something's reported to read between the lines? And I think if you listen to that Woj clip on ESPN

the other day, when he did say, oh, they're not talking, he also adds at the end of it... He said the GMs aren't talking. Yes, he said the GMms aren't talking yes he said the gms aren't talking and he also says it's important for kevin durant that he has a fully committed roster to compete for a championship it's like these little things that woge or shams or stein or haynes whoever whatever they add in those little details are very very important and so i think woge like know, saying what he said,

sometimes it's those little things that are true. Like those are sometimes the greatest insights. By the way, he's probably right. Daryl Morey and Sean Marks probably weren't directly talking to each other, but there were so many intermediaries in this whole thing. They're not the only people who work at the team. What the fuck? And at this level, the owners are involved in

some way. Hell yeah. And then they're telling the GMs, hey, here's the framework. You guys bang this out. Meek Mill, Lil Baby, everybody's involved in this. Sylvester Stallone, he was in there. Joyce Irving. All this stuff. Alright, did we hit everything?

Yeah, I think we got everything. I feel like we did. Hey, Kyle Mann, Waz, KOC, Rob Mahoney. Thanks to Chris Ryan as well who joined us.

Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Burke as well. We'll be putting a ton of short videos and things from that on the Ringer Twitter,

on my YouTube page and all kinds of stuff. But this was fun. Thanks for doing this, boys. It was good seeing you. Thank you. Of course. Good stuff, y'all.

Thank you. Thanks, y'all. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I feel the air drifting on the wayside I'm a person never I don't have to ever