The Bill Simmons Podcast - Part One: A Masters Recap, MVP Picks + Everybody Ducks Brooklyn With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

In Part 1 of a two-part podcast, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Scottie Scheffler winning the Masters tournament, what it meant for Tiger Woods to make the cut, the large group of young golfers with star potential, and more (1:59). Then they discuss their MVP ballots on the final day of the NBA regular season, Eastern Conference contenders jockeying to miss the Nets in the first round of the playoffs, and more (38:44). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a stars league. But even among the stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell, Dr. J, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Jackie McMullen, and this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet

on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch your pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive, they have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit fanduel.com slash BS to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.

Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste.

Picture this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend.

It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time.

Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network. I have new rewatchables coming on Monday night. We're doing the 30th anniversary of the player, Robert Altman's classic, one of the first meta Hollywood movies of the modern era. We'll talk about that and a whole bunch more. This is a really fun movie to rewatch.

Couldn't have enjoyed it more. Also the ringer, uh, NBA show hitting all the basketball subplots. So is the mismatch podcast. So is the ringer gambling show. hitting all the basketball subplots. So is the Mismatch podcast. So is the Ringer Gamblin' show. We're going to get that going as well.

The Prestige TV podcast has a bunch of stuff coming this week. We had Severance put that one up recently, season finale. Atlanta doing that every week. We have Barry coming. We have Better Call Saul coming. We're going to do a winning time, mid-season check-in.

Tokyo Vice, very possible. So stay tuned for that as well. Coming up on this podcast, it's a two-parter. We're taping this part. It's the tail end of the Masters. We're going to hit that. We're going to hit MVP, All-NBA. Are people afraid of Brooklyn? What's going on here? Try to put that up as fast as we possibly can. This should be less than an hour. And then part two will go after the West coast games tonight. When we know all the playoff matchups, Ryan was, so is here.

It's a special staggered two part BS podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, right now it is 3.40 Pacific time on the West Coast. Masters wrapping up. Sheffer murdered it. Took out all the drama, basically. Still a memorable Masters because of Tiger Woods. Rossello is here.

This is, I wouldn't say, best sports weekend of the year. But it's in like the top seven or eight, right? Last day of the NBA season. Little Masters. Baseball starting. It's just fun. It's a fun day to be alive. Plus, you had F1.

I know you're up in the middle of the night. What was going on there? Yeah. Yeah, I stayed up late for that one. Turned down an invitation to a party that was actually nearby too. And I was like, oh wow, I got invited to something. And then I'm like, yeah, I actually have to watch F1. And the guy was like, are you serious? Because you love it. It wasn't even for work. You just love F1. Yeah. I don't know. You know what it is? And this is exactly why I like the UFC. The way that I like it is I don't really have to talk about it. I'm not sitting there constantly examining my angles, my takes. Is this right? Is this wrong? Write this down or all this stuff. I just sit back and enjoy it because there's no takes to develop. I have some, but I don't know. It's the last year or so. And now that we understand, like the best thing any sport can do is get you invested in character, right? Just like a story. And that's what F1 has done as well as anybody,

because it was all new to most of us that just got into it. Well, at the Masters, the Netflix, the crew, because they're doing a similar version of the F1 series and was talking to one of the people involved with it. And it's going to be interesting. It's going to be interesting to see if they can bring some of those golfers to life in the same way. Because I think the difference is I feel like I already know a lot about some of the golfers. F1, I was coming in blind. I didn't know anything about anything. I'd heard of Lewis Hamilton and that's about it. So that's going to be a tough one to, I think, tap into with the golf. But I, and plus we already know the results, whereas like I'm watching the F1 the first couple

of seasons, I have no idea who's winning any race. Every single outcome is a complete surprise to me. First of all, the Netflix crew that did it, I mean, they did an incredible job. You couldn't do a better job than how they did it. But it's exactly to your point. None of us knew anything about it. So all of us are probably collectively over hard knocks, even though you would end up learning

about a couple of players every year. Or you'd be like, wow, that's that coach's deal when you'd watch it. But we still knew. This was so new to all of us that I think that became, well, wait a minute. Now I want to see is, is Verstappen insane. I want to see like, who do I like?

Toto Wolf or Christian Horner? I mean, it's Ferrari doomed as well. What's up with McLaren? So like then to apply three to four seasons of the Netflix show to the knowledge of our, and now i actually know what the hell's going on and it's even cooler too because it's like if you had never i don't know played an instrument before right and then you were super into playing that it would all be so new to you that you would kind of advance i don't know maybe playing an instrument's not a

great analogy because beginning everybody's terrible but um right to understand pit strategy when i'm watching a race like last night, as opposed to three years ago, if I turn it on and be like, what the hell is going on? It's just fun that you kind of know the deal. So I don't know if the golf thing will work because you're right. It's not like we're intimate with all these guys, but it's not brand new the way F1 was to so many Americans. Yeah. It's funny when you, I remember the mid 2000s when I started watching soccer and I started to see kind of the angles. And there's a lot of stuff that reminded me of basketball, right?

The passing, the give and go, the triangles, things like that. And there was a geometry to it that eventually made sense to me. But now I feel like when I watch a soccer game, I see so much more than I did. I'm sure I find the same thing. You mentioned like the pit stops and just some of the positioning, especially, you know especially for me, like the newcomer, the first lap is probably the most exciting part because it's just watching

those guys. You always know somebody's going to bump into somebody and there's so much maneuvering that goes on. It's riveting. It's probably the best lap, right? Other than that, and then there'll be a couple know, a couple near the end when somebody's got to make a move. But the beginning, when it's all chaos, you're just watching it going, how do they know what they're doing?

How do they know where to go? And how do they not just all crash into each other every time? No, it's a great point. And I think if you're looking for a comp, it is a little bit like the NBA because there's so much bullshit. There's so much drama.

There's so much like, to think that you would have a guy on Mercedes' team and Valerie, a V so much drama. There's so much like, to think that you would have a guy on Mercedes' team and Valerie, a Valtteri Botas, where you're like, no, no, you're supposed to let the other guy pass you all the time.

And you're like, wait, wait, I'm just supposed to let Westbrook get all the rebounds? Like, this is weird. And... Steven Adams. Right. Steven Adams is the Botas in the NBA.

So then when you throw in none of us agree on anything, and when there are crashes, like the stuff that was happening with Max and Lewis last year, and then I would go and watch these YouTube videos after the fact because I knew that I didn't know. I'm like, wait, who's at fault here? Wait, if he's past his rear wing, does that mean he has a line?

Is he blocking him or is he cutting him off? And then I would go and research, like trying to get more educated on it and everybody disagreed with each other. So I was like, this is perfect. It's just like the NBA. Well, and so different than what happened to baseball where there's no way to really argue about anything. It's just everything is solved by the stats for the most part. I was talking to somebody about this at the Masters, actually. We were talking about how Jeter versus Nomar was the last truly great baseball argument. It was pre-stats, and it was all eye test, and it was all that old school radio stuff. I don't know, man. Jeter, the two outs, that's the guy. We had no way to back it up. we're all just talking out of our ass but i don't know in a lot of ways it was more fun it was i remember being you know among my boston crew

the guy in a couple of those tahata years where i'd go you know i'm not sure i wouldn't take tahata like shut the fuck up priscilla yeah that's true it was a three-man race for a while well it was a rod was better than all of them, if we're being honest. I always took him off the table. I mean, his stats were like 20% better than everybody else. That was the best part when the Yankees got him and they had moved him to third base. This is amazing. It was funny, too,

because that was the beginning. That was the beginning of some real awareness on some of the defensive metrics, and they were like, the Yankees are putting the guy who's amazing at third base while because jeter had that ridiculous left to right and then launch himself throw it to first yeah so everybody be like oh my god this guy's the best and then every metric came out and they were like actually jeter's incredibly overrated so i don't know it's funny how stats i mean this is a much bigger topic

we go for an hour on this but i don't know that stats have made us smarter um in everything you know what i mean and it definitely will lead to the mvp stuff we talk about a little bit later because there's almost always ways to counter all of this stuff but the jeter stuff was yeah because then i think they also had a thing where it's like yeah if you actually look at his clutch numbers or that i've tried it with everybody else and it's like yeah but can am i allowed with two strikes to be scared shitless of him? Am I allowed to know that he's going to just dribble one down the right field fucking line and end up on second base pointing back at the dugout?

Am I allowed to believe that exists? Because it feels like it does. Can you change what happens to my blood flow when Jeter's up with two outs? I'm just more nervous. I'm sorry. I don't care what the stats are. I feel like he's poking over the second baseman's head.

And he's going to knock the dude home and I don't care what the stats are. I feel like he's poking over the second baseman's head. And he's going to knock the dude home. And I don't care what the stats are. And I was always scared when it came up. I still remember that day playoff game against Pedro where Pedro, you know, they had a better attack against Pedro because they faced him a million times. The same way the Red Sox lineup

were a little bit more comfortable with Mariano because they faced him a million times in all those spots. It makes sense. And I'll just never forget that dribbler down the right field line. I was like, he barely fucking hit that. And, uh, I do love a lot of the baseball stats because I'm still in that AL auction league.

And there's some really good ones that help try to determine, especially like when you get to fifth and XFIP and how lucky a pitcher was and shit like that. Who are you on? Who are you on this year? I had just had my draft. I'm thinking about doing a two-hour special standalone issue release

pod where I just recap my entire draft and my strategy through all 26 rounds. It'll be about two hours. Well, first of all, I think you should absolutely do that. I would listen to all two hours. I think the most fascinating thing that's happened with baseball is what happened to the pitchers where, and we saw it this year

in my auction draft for the first time, the pitcher money was just way lower than the hitter money. And there was too much. All of a sudden, the hitters became way prioritized about halfway through the draft. And all of a sudden, I'm spending $13 on Tyler Wade and shit like that. And you're just going, what just happened? And you're trying to figure out who are starters that you'd want to spend more than like 15 bucks on. Cause nobody, look at what happened this weekend.

Everybody was pitching like four innings, you know? And in the old days, you'd want like the $30 starter if you're trying to win, you know, or you'd want like the two $22 starters. Now it's like, all right, if I get Drew Rasmussen and he can throw 135 innings for me for 10 bucks, isn't that probably the best use of that 10 bucks? I spent 32 on Cole and then he has a forearm injury and he's out for eight weeks and then I'm completely screwed. So we were all trying to have it. And then on top of it, we were talking closers before we went on you know you get a closer and there's a new closer a week later all of a sudden it's like who's sticking writer that guy's the closer now what happened i paid for this other guy

so it's just like it's complete chaos i used to keep track of closer depth charts like i was right into it right and now i went into my draft and i go i'm taking one guy that i know i can pencil in for like 30 plus saves i'll take the one guy earlier than maybe everybody else does yeah and at least i know i have one but um to back in the day like i used to go i don't want to be chasing saves all fucking season it's the worst feeling when there's no options and now i'm like whatever there's, there's 20 guys that are getting saves that aren't even drafted, you know?

So I'll figure it out. And right. You can get an agent auction. You can get like a $4 reliever. And all of a sudden that guy has 25 saves at the end of the year. I mean, we're going to talk about the NBA stuff later, but it is,

it is like the NBA is a piece of this now because the advanced metrics on the one hand have almost become too part of the narrative. But on the other hand, they're undeniable in some cases. Like the Jokic stuff is just batshit crazy. Look at every single advanced metric. It's so out of whack on top of like who he's playing with. And, you know, at some point it becomes undeniable. I really like the on-off rating, the stuff like that.

I thought that was helpful, especially for guys like Tatum, who I know we'll talk about later. But you see, there's some stuff where you're like, wow, Tatum's, you know, almost plus 12 is net rating. Like that's a real number. It's number one in the league. And if you're trying to think, is he first team, second team? I value that stuff.

What other stats do you look at as you're looking at the fancy stuff? Well, you know, it's been really interesting this year because I think there's been so much anti-Jokic stuff on social media that I don't know if that's a true reflection of like the people that are actually voting or cover the league. You know, I would say it is not a true reflection. No. So it feels like all of it's just been thrown in this category where all of this stuff is just stupid,

right? Like anything that Jokic, the alphabet soup things that people call it, like all of the different stuff you're like, Oh, well, true shooting percentage. We're like,

well, that's not a made up thing. Like there's a, are we doing this now? Cause I mean, we can go. But I think we should talk about the stat stuff now, at least like.

I'll do, I'll do one example. I'll do one example. What you just said, I think part of it has to do with how many fans does the guy have and how afraid are you to feel like you're antagonizing those fans if you're swimming against the stream against

them. So it's almost like the more fans somebody has, the more controversial it is to swim against the stream. Whereas Jokic, Denver, is one of the least profile playoff teams we have so how many denver fans are coming at you start taking shots at yokage if i take shots at imbeed people are coming yeah no it's a good point because i would say bucks fans are very vocal

nuggets fans are actually sneaky very vocal and then philly i mean you and i obviously you know felt it uh over the years um but, I'll use one as an example. Okay. Because what's happened now, at least that I've known on social media, is that if you're arguing one of the numbers, whether it's box score plus minus, if you're doing some of the defensive plus minus stuff,

which by the way, Jokic is ahead of Embiid in defensively on some of this stuff. I don't believe that. Like I've watched enough of it and I go, okay, that's one that I can kind of dismiss. So I'd ask a very simple question. What's a smarter way to approach all this stuff? Because't believe that like i've watched enough of it and i go okay that's one that i can kind of dismiss so i'd ask a very simple question what's a smarter way to approach all this stuff because there's there's this also this camp of like the real hoopers think all of this is bullshit

and you're like all right well is that smarter than maybe understanding what each number means and then dissecting their flaws like i think per does a good job but i also know it's incredibly flawed and it's weighted towards maybe we didn't understand this when we like, wait, if you don't take a ton of shots and you live around the rim and you have a high field goal percentage and incredible rebound rate, and you're not really turning it over because you're not making basketball decisions other than cleaning up with the rim, then you're going to have a really high PER. That's why like Robert Williams at times, you're like, wait, is he the eighth best player in the NBA? You're like, of course not. That's why Hassan Whiteside got paid a hundred million bucks.

When you're like- Windchairs is another one like that where it's so tied to how many wins your team has. It's good, but it's one of 15 things you should be using. But then I'll also notice if you're a pro in a look guy, you may stack the take. This is always one of my favorite things you can tell

somebody's telling on themselves is they'll make an argument where they come up with four stats. It's basically the same fucking stat it'll be like most free throw attempts most free throw attempts per game highest free throw attempt per 36 rate you just go you just told me the same stat three different ways so yokich dominates all of these things which we'll get into more depth once we get to it but say you're pro Embiid and anti Jokic. You're like, oh, it's all these stats and I'm a real hooper and all these stats are fucking stupid and all this stuff.

And you're like, okay, but you realize that Embiid also kills it in a lot of these stats too, which tells you that there's some real impact stuff, especially when it's on off the court. So if you look at the single season leader for box score plus minus, that means when you're in versus when you're out right yeah yokich is about to set the all-time record in nba fucking history okay the all-time record now if you're anti-yokich you'd be like oh look at you idiot what are you at sloan again this year and you're like okay well no you would say you would say that's dependent on the fact that he didn't

have a good bench either so it's like an outsized impact when he's not out there because of the bench. But here's the other thing is like Giannis this year is going to be 15th all time in this category because his numbers are crazy too and needs a little bit lower on this one. But for this specific number, say you're dismissive of Jokic or even dismissive of what you're talking about, you know who's number two all time? 2008 lebron and number three all time is 87 88 mj so it's not like dolph shays is fourth all time in this weird number where you're like oh i've exposed it and that's what i think is kind of funny is that when you completely dismiss all of it you are also probably dismissing the players that you're always caping for in some other

argument yeah and then the games played thing got really screwed up the last couple years dismissing the players that you're always caping for in some other argument. Yeah. And then the games played thing got really screwed up the last couple of years. That used to be a much better indicator than I think it is. Since we had the pandemic season, we had that ended in the bubble. Then we had the shortened season last year and then the season this year where we still had these COVID scratches and stuff like that. So, you know, looking at the history of this stuff, which we talked about last week, but in the old days, if it was like, you know, somewhere 55 to 60 games, that was a lot of games to miss. Now it's like, it almost feels like it's the new 62 to miss,

something like that. I think that people are getting better at county defense when they figure out the Ombia and the MVP than they used to be. It was way more of a, almost like who's the best fantasy player award in a lot of ways. So that part's improved. And I don't know.

I, the, the narrative moves so much as it goes. I feel like it was way more important. Maybe this started in 2017 for real, but I felt like it was way more important. Maybe this started in 2017 for real, but I felt like it was the first time. This was like a six-month thing this year. We've talked about this, but it was game 12.

People were like, who's the MVP? It's fun to check in. It's fun to check in on quarters, trimesters, but this is around the time we should really be having the honest conversation, which we're going to do later. We want to talk about the masters. Stats.

So I was with House and Nathan Hubbard. They used a lot of the ball striking stats for some of their picks, and they did really well. They had Morikawa to win in top 10, and they had Zalatouris and Scheffler. We did a FanDuel, Cream of Some Young Guns parlay, which was Sheffler, Morikawa, and Zalatouris all to make top 20. And it was like plus five to one almost. That was our big same game parlay for the tournament. They almost had a chance to get top

five for those three guys. Sheffler won.. The reason I bring it up is there's some good stats for how the guy is going the two months leading in, what the ball striking is, how the Masters compares to the ball striking stuff. And those guys are really into it, and it works. And I don't think in the 80s we were doing this with Jack Nicklaus and Tom Watson. What are the ball striking for Nicklaus?

Can I ask you, because I don't know. I mean, are we talking about their overall rate of accuracy with different elements of the whole? Yes, and length of course. Yeah, all kinds of different things. Let's talk about the Masters.

We'll take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember.

You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event,

or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. So Scotty Sheffer wins. He just locked it down. I'm watching him shake hands.

Poor Cam Smith completely fell apart in the 12th hole. The 12th hole was like, it's a haunted house documentary over the years. Triple right into the water. Yeah. I mean, it's, we'll go into that a little bit later.

Sheffer is 25 years old. Nathan and house both thought that this all started at the writer cup. He got thrown against Rom on the last day, kind of sacrificial lamb. We'll let, you know, we'll throw our young guy against Rahm. Probably going to lose.

Rahm's the best golfer in the world. He beat him. And since then, he's been on a tear. This is the fourth PGA title that he's won. This is the biggest one he's won. He's the third youngest guy to ever win the Masters. Tiger, Spieth, Scheffler. Here's my question for you.

When Spieth did this in 2016, everybody was so enamored with him. And with Sheffler, it felt like Tiger overpowered the weekend to the point that you didn't get that kind of Spieth bump with like, oh my God, this guy's so young. I can't believe it. This is so great. It was like just Tiger, Tiger, Tiger. And that's, I guess the way it should have been. I was there for the first couple of days. You were watching watching from afar what did it feel like to you it was all tiger i mean it always is which is just part of it so i think there's obviously his return how he looked i mean i think we're gonna have van pelt on but he and i were talking about it a little bit and it's like look he's he's banged up and then when you saw Tiger finish up today and walk back to the clubhouse, you're like, all right, this is...

Would you hear the quotes yesterday when he was talking about... Because he sucked yesterday and he said it was cold. I couldn't get warmed up. I'm really banged up. We talked on the Thursday pod about just watching it in person,

watching him walk up and down hills, watching him try to kind of stand still on greens when he wasn't involved, which the cameras aren't showing, and just how uncomfortable he seemed the whole time. I thought it was one of the coolest things I've seen in person. Like somebody who's just like, I don't care how much pain I'm in. I'm still making this happen. I'm still getting this done. I'm finishing these, these four rounds. Okay. So, but yeah. So I want to ask you more about it because you were there but just to follow up on the Shuffler part so he's 25 yeah do you think because Spieth is 21 Tiger was 21 yeah maybe it's just we're over it if you're if you're not if you're not setting a new standard

um because I don't remember yeah I think that's fair Spieth was four years younger but at the same time you know Shuffler is very similar personality wise I think that's fair. Spieth was four years younger, but at the same time, you know, Sheffler's very similar personality-wise, kind of demeanor-wise to Spieth. He's just steady. You could feel it on day two as he started to kind of pull away. He just, you know, Spieth until that 12th hole

at the Masters in 2016 was just, what's going to faze this guy? Anything, nothing. And it's so funny with golf. One thing can happen. It flips. So what was it like?

I mean, give me the full... You've been there a couple of times, right? So compare this with the Tiger element to the... Did you go when he won, by the way? Is that the other time? No, I didn't. The Tiger thing was so amazing to see in person. We caught probably six of his holes the first day.

Second day, it was just too many. Everyone was following him, which gave you all this opportunity to check out some other people. So we parked at the tent pole the second day, which is downhill par four. And a big approach shot. We were right behind the green, you could see.

And we got to see all the golfers we didn't see the first day, like DJ and Rom, and everybody. And probably the highlight was the ball rolled right by us. And we got to watch DJ try to get a ruling. Can I move the ball or not? The rule guy had to come over. And we were just five feet away. It was incredible. And he's, by the way, like 6'4". He looks like Jalen Brown. But yeah, it was really cool. How'd you land on Jalen Brown?

He looks like a small forward. It looks like you were playing pickup. You'd be like, all right. It was really cool. But the Tiger thing will be the big memory. Not just that he was out there, which seemed impossible even three weeks ago, but that you know that he got it out he made the cut you know he and there was a couple moments in the second round when it was seemed like it was going to go south it just

never did i mean he ended up he was i think fifth worst from the bottom but i it's not the point i mean i think just for him to walk 32,000 yards in four days and hit however many golf shots he hit, like, we never thought we'd see that again. Yeah, I don't know, like, what to do with the golfers that have these comebacks, you know, because part of it you go, all right, well, it's not, like, this proves that it's not clear.

I don't want to turn into, like, his golf of sport and athletes and all that kind of stuff. But to think of the severity of the injury when they start talking about amputation and then. And it's tibia like basically disintegrating, they were saying. Yeah. So, I mean, he looked like it was impacting just his day-to-day, and as you mentioned, the cold thing. But what I always thought was interesting about Augusta

is that once you're there, it's probably the most protected atmosphere an athlete could have in any high-leverage sporting event in the United States. And when Tiger came back after he went through all the family stuff, and then he was going to play Augusta, right? So he's like, I'm going to go. And I remember being with Van Pelt in the air going, why would he pick this? Why would he come back and do this and not get a few under his belt?

And then you're thinking, is he so concerned with the major chase, Jack, that he's like, look, I got to, which, by the way, I still think is always going to be a small part of it. There was this one conversation or some debate that I saw, like somebody asked Tiger if he thought he could win in the interview. And Tiger says, oh, of course I can win. And then people were like, oh, wow. He thinks he's ready to go.

Like, first of all, what the fuck is he going to say? Like, I'm just here. I want to get a couple of vests, you know? Yeah. And he's like, walk the course. Right. Right. He's I love those.

I love those peach ice cream sandwiches. So you got to figure that's probably a little part of his calculation in that. What if I, you know, put together three good days and then it's Friday or excuse me, it's the fourth day. It's Sunday and I'm as comfortable with anybody in these big spots. Like, you know, he's probably processing it that way. But isn't that what makes the all-time great athletes great, though? Like Brady right now. Brady's going to keep playing until he absolutely sucks.

He's going to play until he has the Peyton Manning nine touchdowns, 20 interception season. Then it'll be over. But until that happens, he's going to keep playing. Right. And good for him. But when he came back to play Augusta, however long ago that was with the iron through the windshield.

Yeah. Scott's like, no, no, no. He goes, whatever you think it's about, it's,

it's because once he's through those gates, everyone there is on his side for the most part. And it's comfortable for him. And I think that was a lot of what we just saw this past weekend too. You get the adrenaline from being there. You get the comfort of the course that he's had the most success at. I went to a Warriors game, I think in 2018,

and I sat randomly next to Barry Bonds. And I was fascinated by how the San Francisco fans treated Bonds, which was like a deity. And I started asking around about it. And what I learned was that, first of all, Bonds lives in the Bay. Everybody loves him there. And it's kind of like,

we don't care what the outside world thinks. This is our guy. This guy gave us some great moments and he belongs to us. So that's why he's there. And that made me, your tiger point made me think of that. Like whatever's going on with them at the Masters,

it's always going to be okay. Now, Mickelson, I think would be the other one who that you would have said that about. He didn't go this week. And I think it would have been weird if he went, I actually think whatever happened with them might've actually gone too far with whether he would have gotten that fuzzy, warm feeling from the Augusta crowd.

Maybe, I don't know. Everyone's so nice and polite there. Who knows? The bonds thing is really good though. That's because I had just started ES Everyone's so nice and polite there. Who knows? The Bonds thing is really good, though. Because I had just started ESPN in 06, 07. So it's Bonds' last two years. And you could argue that he's still,

after missing a good chunk of 05, I mean, his OPP was still nuts. I mean, it was really weird in those last couple years where everybody kept walking him again like he was going to hit 70 home runs. But we were doing the Bonds watch, right? Like back old school radio, cut was going to hit 70 home runs. But we were doing the Bond's Watch, right? Like back old school radio cut into live at bats home runs. These people were like, oh, it's amazing.

And I remember there was always pushback when it was Sosa, where all the guys on air were like, hey, no one cares. Let's get out of 1988. Like nobody gives a shit about going to live Sosa at bats nationally. But we would take calls on the shows. Hell, those shows are six hours long, so we had to fill it somehow. And every host is basically trashing bonds at that point. They're like, this isn't fun. I don't enjoy it. He's, he's an asshole about this. Like we had read the stories, you know, we kind of knew the full scope of it. And every time you would bring up bonds, it would be all San Francisco people defending them, calling them in, like

losing their minds about it. And then you'd watch a game and everybody's cheering him like crazy. And I think it was a really good lesson in that the people closest to it that still benefit from it are never going to be negative. And that's false. A more normal version of what you just laid out was Brady to Flakegate when that became us against them with the Boston fans of Brady. And he's getting railroaded.

And I thought that pushed Brady to another level of popularity. He was already on the top shelf. But that whole thing about now they're coming after our guy, that just tapped into all the Masswell stuff and all the Boston stuff. It was like, wait a second, fuck you!

And then that led to the next run he had. And then in a weird way, it was like the best career move that ever could happen, even though I don't think it was intentional, but yeah, the bond stain, the fact that he's so popular there and tiger, we were talking about this on Thursday night, the level of adulation for him and the drop off to the second guy level of adulation has to have been one of the biggest drop-offs in the history of that tournament. Because Phil normally is the second guy, especially... People really like Phil.

They knew in 2019 PGA, he's relatable, he's out of shape. But now he's out. And it was like, who's the number two guy? Who is it? Are you saying the patrons are just not the peak level of fitness and that they relate? Especially the amount of cigarette smoking and cigar smoking and bad eating you see at this thing.

Golf's in a weird place because they have so much young talent now. You know, you could say, who's going to be the best guy of this generation? And we could talk about nine different guys. You know, and then the DJ era, DJ's 37 now. This tournament, this is another one that was sitting right there for them. We thought after day one he was going to win and

he could just never get it going. But he's won a couple, but I still think it could be a disappointing outcome if he doesn't have a couple more for what his career could have been. But when you go forward to this next generation, Bryson already looks like he's banged up. It looks like he

put up too much. He looked terrible in person. We were so glad we bet against him to make the cut. So Tiger's kind of levitating above everybody. And I guess the next big star is the fact that there's so many stars. That they have Morikawa and nine other

versions of that kind of up-and-comer. You just kind of never know. Zala Torres today. Cam Smith looking like Joe Dirt. Yeah. No, I mean, everybody loves the Cam Smith look. Because that's almost like, are you doing this all on purpose? Yeah, it feels like a bit. Yeah.

It's a bit in a golf movie that's actually just a real movie. Or he's doing it for the Netflix show or who knows? Who knows what he's up to? Couple other couple other Masters things really quick. Classic Rory 64

final day. No real chance to win. All of a sudden, it became a little bit realistic he might win and that was when he had a terrible drive and all of a sudden, he was out again.

He had the eighth Sunday of 64 ever. Felt very Matt Ryan-y to me. Wait, what? How is it Matt Ryan? You know, like, Saints up 28 to three or know like Saints up 28-3 Or 20 Sorry 28-3 was a bad example

Saints up 28-7 Fourth quarter Matt Ryan puts together a couple drives And all of a sudden They're going for the onside Down four And he has 420 yards And four touchdowns

Like Matt Ryan Biggest fantasy QB of the week. And I was like, yeah, but that was what the Rory thing felt like to me. I would say Matt has less support than Rory does. Probably, yeah. That's fair. People like Rory. I gotta say, when you talk about the

second guy with the most adulation, he's definitely in the running. There's a lot of Rory fans out there. Golf fans love everybody. Like the thing I didn't understand, I had one roommate that loved it. Okay, grew up playing it, loves it more than anything.

And then I go, aren't there a couple of guys you don't like? And it was the dumbest answer, but it's the most accurate one. And realized why I probably wouldn't be super into it. He goes, what do you mean root against somebody? I'm like, there has to be a couple of guys you root against. He goes, no, he goes, you root for good golf.

Like what? You just root for good golf. Like what you just root for good golf. And then that's it. That's like, you were talking about standing near DJ when he had to get a ruling. Yeah. There's no dorkier version than the male species. Then when a golf balls out of bounds and people run to look at it. Yeah.

And point as if there aren't cameras everywhere at a pretty high-end tournament where, hey, we'll probably figure it out, Ralph. We'll figure out where that ball is. And then guys, like,

freak out to run to stand near the ball. So, you know. It does feel like when you're there and they show up at the hole and all of a sudden they're standing next to it,

it feels like they came out of the TV. It's a disorienting. It's also, the shots they hit. Like DJ hits the shot and puts it like three feet. He barely even looked at it. It's like, all right, fuck it. All right, fine.

Then I'll hit the chip from here and just like, boom, like barely lined it up. We watched Varner make one. Varner, I think, has potential as a charisma guy in person. Like the crowd was really into him. He just seems relatable.

Um, he's big feast or famine guy. If he was a basketball player, he would definitely be like Jordan pool. Even like 33 points one game and maybe like 10 the next, who knows. Um, but for the most part,

like you're right. Everybody roots for everybody. Everybody just wants to see a cool shot. Nobody wants anything bad to happen. You never want to be there for like a triple boat like cam smith today at 12 nobody wants to be standing there for that watching this guy just completely melt down at the worst time all right and you're right you're right about all that and actually when you put it that way like maybe it'd be great if more things were like that instead of searching for that negativity and and i've been there it is one of my favorite sporting events it exceeded

all expectations it's one of the few sporting events. It exceeded all expectations. It's one of the few things I've ever gone to where I was kind of annoyed that I gave the passes for Saturday to my friends thinking like, all right, I've got three days. I'll have it. I wanted to go back in on Saturday, but you know,

whatever I was trying to do my friends a favor. So I bounced. Um, I was lucky enough to go up with home. Uh, he invited me and, a couple of guys down here. Yeah.

We went up to Riviera and we did the pro-am walk with him on Wednesday. And so we just walked with him. And the thing that's always the craziest about it, and real golf people already understand this, but just how many times you guys see somebody off the tee where they're screaming for, they've got the arm up left to right, and then 10 minutes later, they're putting for par.

And to see it it when it all happens to see the corrections to see the approaches like it's one thing through the drives and the putting and all this stuff but to see the approaches where what they're aiming at and what a miss is for them and how consistent they are the flight of the ball it's just to see it in person um not that it's any different than any other sport that you see in person realizing like how special these guys are, but, uh, I've, I've rarely had as good of a time at a live event as I did at the masters. It's that great. I actually think it's done, but I haven't been F1 yet. I think it's the number one. I can't believe how hard this is

in person. Like when you see, especially that master's course, some of the holes, the 18, just how narrow that is. And some of the shots they have to hit. And the fact that there's just people all around them on every shot that they just have to kind of shut out in the level of concentration you need.

Tennis was a little bit like that for me, seeing it in person with good seats for the first time. When you're seeing how hard it is to return somebody's first serve when it's 130 miles an hour. And just these guys in the back and how they're just moving before the guys even hitting the ball. And they just kind of know left or right. And I was amazed by that. But you're right. Every sport has something. I think basketball probably translates the best to TV for how amazing it is.

I'm going to guess that watching F1, if you had a good vantage point in person, it's got to be out of control. A little bit more daunting. Yeah, I would, I would say that it's got to be, I mean, they have to be coming so fast. You'd probably have no idea where they're even coming from. Last thing on the masters, the, uh, the 12th hole. So Cam Smith melts down today and you know it right away. Goes in and it's just like they might as well,

somebody might just come on the course and just shoot him in the head. Like it's just done. It's Joe Pesci, good fellas. This is a wrap. You just know it. But I was looking, I was researching all the things that happened on the 12th hole and it really is, it really has had some great, like there was apparently an Arnold Palmer thing in 1959. He had a triple.

Weisskopf in 1980 had a plus 13. He went in the water five times, and he was one of the favorites. Greg Norman, obviously, 96. Mickelson, 09. McElroy, 2011. Spieth, I think, is the most famous recent one. And then Molinari went in there, and that set up the Tiger one.

But I don't feel like, I think that 12th Hole needs better PR. I think when they show, when the master shows it, we need like conjuring music. I just think, I think they need

to sell the shit out of it better. A fire pit in the background? Yeah, just say maybe the scariest looking announcer we could have for the 12th.

Smoke machines? Yeah, like somebody, maybe they have like the dark makeup or something. Like the War Boys looking announcer we could have for the 12th? Smoke machines? Yeah, like somebody maybe they have like the dark makeup or something. Like the War Boys and Mad Max? Oh.

Watching the Red Sox Yankees. Montgomery just got nailed by a grounder. Not great. Yeah, I think they could go a little bit scarier than that all. Alright, so we're going to come back and we're going to do a little NBA and try to set the stage for what part two of this podcast is going to be. spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days. And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide.

Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash businessplatinum. All right, Priscilla. It is now 4.17 p.m. They're playing basketball right now. The East is in flux. The West is going to be in some flux. There was a really weird decision by Milwaukee to throw away their ESPN game today.

But they basically tried to checkmate. I was texting with Zach Lowe about it. Zach was saying they're basically trying to checkmate the Celtics to put them either two or four because they assumed Philly is going to try to win. Again, we'll know how all of this is going to play out. Philly benched Harden and Embiid for rest tonight. So they're playing the Pistons, and that's all going.

I guess my big question, I asked this to you, I think last week, and I'm going to ask it again. Why is everybody running from Brooklyn? I understand it even less this week than I did last week. And I know people, the Celtics could lose to them in round one

and people cut this up like, oh, Simmons wasn't afraid of Brooklyn. I'm not saying there aren't reasons to be afraid of them. I just really value home court. I value the two seed. I value knowing that I have two game sevens at home. That's the whole point of the season. And I think for the Celtics, their home crowd matters more than any other home crowd in the East. They have the best crowd of all the top five contenders that can actually like affect the game and get those guys going. I think they're going to be harder to beat at home. So I value it more than most. Where, where do you stand on it?

Yeah. It is weird that no one seems to care about it at all anymore. And I mean, just when you look back historically, I think it's changed a bit, but I mean, over the years, remember it used to be like 70% home team in game seven. Higher. It was like 78, 78, 77%, something like that, right? Yeah, I think it's dipped in recent years. It's dipped. Yeah. But it's dipped

mainly because of the Clippers. There were some teams that caused it to dip. We had the Rockets. There's more three-point variants. The Celtics lost to game seven at Cleveland. But in general,

if you're talking like a defense athleticism, one-scorer team like the Celts, that's a team you'd want at game seven at home. Milwaukee doesn't care. but in general, like if you're talking like a defense athleticism, you know, one score team, like the Celts, I, that's a team you'd want to game seven at home. Milwaukee doesn't care. I think Milwaukee,

you wouldn't put Milwaukee's arena games. You wouldn't put that up there with Boston. Maybe. Yeah, I wouldn't. I, I'd put it close, but not,

not quite the same. I've seen that Boston crowd just steal games. And I'm not saying that because that's my team, but I really feel like we've seen that home crowd. I thought that Wizard series is a good example. I'm still not quite the Kelly Olenek game. There's just been some weird ones over the years where it's like, man, the crowd had a lot to do with that.

Okay, so I think a lot of it has to do with, like, what do you think of Durant? Okay, and now the Simmons news of today that he's potentially coming back for this. I don't believe that. I just don't believe it. That's fine. But I think there's another part of this where you've been on this. If you've watched the Nets, are you sure you know what it is?

Other than just being horrified of duran so do you want to are you so afraid of the best version of the nets that you would rather avoid them and give boston home court in game seven uh i'm not i'm not overwhelmed either way on the argument but i'd say that you know when i was watching the nets let's go back almost a week ago the houston game you're like what what is wrong with you guys like they won the game they're down in new york by 20 and i'm going kind of your point is we've been talking about this being like are you afraid of something you actually shouldn't be afraid of they come back they beat them i thought the calves win on friday was a really nice win even though cleveland without jared allen's just a different team and people people figured out that if you can kind of cut off Garland,

there's not a lot of threats there. And then even the Pacers game today, they screwed around with them where it was close, and then they came back at it, and then Durant finds ways to make plays at the end. Durant had a million assists today. Dude, they gave up. You buried the lead. They gave up 126 to the Pacers. They gave up 66 in the second half. Everybody and their brother can score 120 on the lead. They gave up 126 to the Pacers. They gave up 66 in the second half. Everybody

and their brother can score 120 on the net. My point is not wavered. Let's just pencil in Durant and Kyrie for 60 to 65 a game. They're giving up 120. They still got to get 60 other points from the rest of their guys. Curry's playing on a sprained ankle,

the whole thing. If you're telling me, hey, get second, because they punted on it today, and now Philly, as you said, I wasn't sure. I thought maybe Philly would try to get it and beat a million more points so that the team could tweet out how many points he got in the MVP race here at the end. No, I'm serious. I thought that might happen, but then once Milwaukee punted on all of this um you know maybe it's also about milwaukee

deciding that they just really want to play chicago because they think that series is going to be so easy so it's not hey let's avoid brooklyn as much as have you guys seen who Chicago is? Chicago was 26 and 10. And since that time, they've gone 19 and 26. They can't defend anybody. They get their asses kicked. The Chicago Bulls are a bad basketball team right now. They have like a 2019 Celtics. Everything is really falling apart in a real way vibe to them. It is.

All you have to do is watch them. I mean, even that Celtics game they lost. I mean, I'm not usually ref guy. I felt like the Bulls were getting every call. They still couldn't make it close. It is. All you have to do is watch him. Even that Celtics game they lost, I'm not usually a ref guy. I felt like the Bulls were getting every call that game, and they still couldn't make it close. So it might be, it's not so much, hey, let's do it this way. We get to avoid Durant.

If he decides, maybe they're still scared as shitless of him because of what almost happened last year in the playoffs because we thought Bud was done. We thought all the different storylines that we had around the Milwaukee Bucks. And by the way, we can take a bye against the Chicago Bulls, because we thought Bud was done. We thought all the different storylines that we had around the Milwaukee Bucks. And by the way, we can take a bye against the Chicago Bulls, who are a bad basketball team now, which is not debatable. All the stats tell you they're terrible,

and they have no defensive answer for a guy like Giannis. Not that many do, but at least the Nets have other big guys they could potentially, if Simmons were to come back, or Durant, if they just said, hey, the last three minutes, Durant,

you got Giannis. Not saying that's going to be easy either. That might be all added up up more important to them than having say a game seven in the second round potentially against Boston. I just like having the game sevens. Yeah, I look, I'm as

scared of Durant as anybody. You know how I value Durant. I don't think you are. I think I'm more scared of him than you are. No, I'm scared of Durant. I just feel like that team, he could average. What's the most somebody can average in a playoff series realistically against the best defensive team in the league? Now, Rob Williams is out. Still a really good defensive team.

But let's give him 35 a game for the series. Is that enough for them? Giving him 35. I'm like, just, you can have it. 35 a game. Done. KD's going to average 35 a game against the Celtics or the Sixers or the Bucs.

Any of those three teams. Is that enough for the Nets from what we've seen from them defensively? And I don't think they can get stops. I don't think they can get stops either. Drummond is a real minutes guy for them, which I think in the playoffs, even though I feel like he's been motivated and has had moments where I don't think they can get stops either. You know, Drummond is a real minutes guy for them, which I think in the playoffs,

even though I feel like he's been motivated and has had moments where he's looked better. Yeah, what happens when teams start fouling him in the second and third quarters to try to mess him up? And also that same thing with Simmons. Simmons is going to be just thrown in the fire, hasn't played all year. I thought that report, look, if he plays, I'll be shocked. But I actually thought that report was crazy, that they're, I'll be shocked, but I actually thought that report was

crazy, that they're just going to be like, yeah, he'll be great. Ben Simmons, throwing him out there. He shot 34% for the free throw line in the last playoffs. He's just going back out there? Is that going to have a warm-up game? I don't like their defense either, okay? I'm with you, but

I think it has a lot to do with Chicago in there as well. They're not even guaranteed Chicago yet. Because, I mean, we don't know what's going to happen. But like Detroit's beating Philly right now. Right? So the Celtics could win. Or the Celtics could decide to tank the second half of this Boston game

knowing the Sixers are going to lose. Anyway, we'll talk about all this in part two. I just think people seem to think Brooklyn is a little more scary than they are. And I think people are underrating Miami, including myself last week, because it seems like Miami righted the ship. Whatever weird

off-the-court thing happened with them, it seems like they're okay now. They're going to have home court in every round. And I just don't think that's like a picnic to play them in round two. No, not at all. I've not been as nice. I wouldn't say, I don't think I've been critical of Miami, but I haven't put them at the top

of the teams I'm most scared of in the East list. I've probably had them third at best at times, probably fighting with Brooklyn, which seems completely unfair to Miami. And if there's one thing about the Butler thing, as bad as it looked, if there's a team that finds a way through that shit, it's Miami Heat. Right.

Yeah, I agree. Let's talk MVP. And we'll do all the all-NBA stuff on the second podcast. But I got to say, I was ready for Giannis to win me over after he had that Tuesday, Thursday last week against Philly, against Brooklyn. I got excited about, you know what?

He could steal this. His stats are amazing. I think he should get some real credit for the year after a championship year, how fucking hard that guy plays. They had some weird stuff. Not a perfect team. Lopez was out most of the year. I started talking myself into it. And then they kind of just started throwing games away, including today. I want my MVP to care about not being afraid of Brooklyn.

I didn't like that they just kind of punted the two seed. Wait, that's part of your calculus of this? No, I'm saying I thought he had a chance to steal it, but he obviously didn't care. And there was some momentum there for him that just kind of dissipated. And I think Jokic grabbed it by the balls probably four or five days ago. And it seems like this is a wrap. Who do you have? Let me take you through my maze here.

I'll make it quick. Great. What kind of maze are we talking? Is this like a lost episode? Is this like Dexter? What kind of TV show am I entering? What's up with that smoke? Did they ever come to the conclusion?

What was that smoke monster? Smoke monster going to be here? If I'm being totally honest about all of it, like we all have little biases in there, right? Like little things that we think are important. So it's not just straight stats. I'd like to think I watch a lot of basketball.

So I have a good, good sense of what's going on. Doesn't mean I know everything. Doesn't mean I get everything right. Then I think the story is always a big influence on the voting, but I was like, I don't want to be part of the story because I think there's two things that are clear.

I probably went into this trying to find a way to get him to vote because I love him. Not that I don't love Jokic, not that I don't love Giannis. He's like the one guiding light to all the Sixers bullshit over all of these years. In the aftermath of Simmons tanking this season

for a million different reasons and one that we have to be sensitive about, for Simmons camp to complain to ESPN that Simmons didn't criticize Embiid after the Toronto series. Yeah, just because Embiid put his arms up because he couldn't believe in a playoff game that Simmons didn't dunk when they shouldn't. You know what I mean? Joel's been the guy that's got it right.

He's the guy that's figured it out. He stayed healthier than I ever thought. But that's not really what this award is about. All right. So if I was admitting a pre bias to like, which way would I lean in a tie? It's probably because I'd really love to see Joel Embiid get an MVP. Then there was this stretch of Giannis where he was playing against Brooklyn,

the Philly win where he has the block. And I'm going, do you actually think anybody's better than him right now? Because it doesn't feel that way now yes with Durant's scoring arsenal and the last couple minutes of a playoff game the shots that Durant can get you I think are beyond anybody else in the league and that's why I'm still like a little sensitive the idea that would I still actually take Giannis over Durant not to start a franchise because Giannis is always healthier right but I'm like if I'm going who I just think is the best i it it might be yannis and then i asked myself if yannis hadn't won one yannis would win in a landslide probably this year

because the voters would say let's finally get it to yannis so am i holding previous success against yannis the way we've done that now you're talking my language i love that you gotta throw out the previous results so i started i had this week or two where i go i think i might vote yannis and then i came through everything again with yokich and i've watched so many of those denver games not to say i haven't watched the other guys a million times yokich does fucking everything for a bad team yeah and if you want to get into the the semantics of six seed versus a four seed like you realize sixers people are going, you can't vote for a six seed

for MVP. It's like you're a fucking four seed and you're like a game ahead of them. If Embiid had 65 wins, okay, different conversation. If Giannis had 60 wins and they were like a Phoenix in the East,

different conversation. The records are close enough that you can throw out any of the seeding talk. Jokic does everything for a bad Denver team. They all have similar records and Jokic is going to complete the first 2,000 point, 1,000 rebound, 500 assist season while having a usage rate that still holds up with a true shooting percentage that has only been doubled by or only been accomplished by Seth twice, Durant, Adrian Dantley, and

Barkley. The entire Jokic package and the record being similar and his stuff with him, I don't know how you vote for anybody else. You're preaching to the choir. I mean, it's funny that we went through the same Giannis kind of left that door

open for him at some point. I really like Embiid too. I did a whole 15 minute thing at the top of my pod like two months ago about what a shame it was that they were going to waste this great story with this dumb Ben Simmons situation. Then they addressed it and they got a guy who kind of sent them sideways.

Didn't really help them that much. Look, sometimes we just have a couple guys who had great seasons. And I think this has turned into, if you don't pick Embiid, that means you're against Embiid or whatever. And I just feel like Jokic had a harder burden than Embiid did this season.

He lost his best two teammates. He played with a 2-12 that was probably bottom 7 or 8 in a 2-12 if we're doing the two through 12 draft where's that where's that denver two through 12 going in the two through 12 draft there's one other player with like an above average per i think there's zero players with a positive net rating or something like that right and so okay so then you could be like well wait a minute so mb is going to lose because the rest of the nuggets aren't as good. And you're like, well, this is kind of where we land back on

most valuable. But then in a vacuum, when I see the Embiid arguments, like, okay, the last center to win the scoring title, you're not going to vote for that guy. You're like, okay. But you don't get to have all the Embiid arguments in a vacuum when you have stuff like Jokic, who's going to finish with an average of 27, 13, and seven. That's never been done before. It's never been done before. And it's not Westbrook bullshit. Okay. Cause we'll go traditional number on you. These are real numbers in a guy that has no help and he's still incredibly efficient. And I test wise, it holds up every time you watch them. It's always unbelievable how much he does. And I don't understand why he doesn't get tired. There's a couple of games. There's that one

stretch last month when he, they had like was six games in nine nights. And it was the first time he started to look a little beaten up and he lost their golden state at home. They were hitting a weird. Yeah. He's beaten up because everybody's just hitting him with the kitchen sink and he's the point guard and he has to protect the rim. And you know, he's playing with these guys that the crazy thing about his assist number. Cause I saw some people are trying to discredit it where it's like, he's averaging with these guys that the crazy thing about his assist number, because I saw some people are trying to discredit it where it's like he's averaging eight assists a game, but some of them are handoffs. Well, we're going to start discrediting him. What about all the assists that he didn't get because he was playing with a bunch of like

role guys, right? The fact that he wasn't playing with Jamal Murray, who probably would have been worth two assists a game for him. You know, I do think there's a world where he, he could be a triple double average guy and I don't care about triple doubles, but I do think like there could be a 25, 13, 10 in his future. I was looking back at everybody I voted for the last six years. And, um, in 2019, I voted and beat over Jokic. Last year I voted Jokic over Embiid for first team, second team. But Jokic has been, he's put in the work now. We're talking 2019 second team, 2020 second team,

and then two first teams, one this year, one maybe, one maybe this year, one last year. But he's put in the work. I still feel like there's a level for him to go

where he might even be a little bit better, which is crazy to say. But as his teammates get better, I think he's going to the work. I still feel like there's a level for him to go where he might even be a little bit better, which is crazy to say, but as his teammates get better, I think he's going to get a little bit better. That's why, to me, he's the MVP. He's doing this with a below-average supporting cast, and I think if you switch the two guys,

I do not think Denver's record is as good, and you could talk me into Philly's record being as good, and that's it. If Philly had a much better record than Denver, then maybe you can get me there, you know? Right. Because they're 10 games higher.

And it still would be tough, but you can point to the analytics. You can point to the traditional stuff. You can watch all of these guys as much as I feel like I have and have a really good grasp on on who's what and i i just look i'd it's so unfortunate for a bead because what's happening is that we have these three guys all doing something so incredibly special that everyone's individual arguments are historic and overwhelming but that's not the way it works like Like, I don't like when we'll go back and look at results and you'll say, well, you know, how could this have not happened

or how come this guy didn't happen with this guy? And you're like, okay, but are you just saying it is blanket or are you comparing, are you putting in context with what also was happening around him? So they'll look back, we could go back in five years and be like, I can't believe MB didn't win the MVP.

It's like, okay, but are you going to ignore the other incredible stories that we also had that season? And that's the whole point. That's the whole point of winning it for your season. Also, this was an awesome Embiid season. It shouldn't be denigrated if he's number two in MVP instead of number one. He answered every single question we ever had about him. He stayed way more durable than I ever thought.

He destroys any team that's undersized, like in a real crazy Shaq, late nineties, early two thousands way. And he's good on both ends. He's a great teammate. And this is like, it's all a win. And sometimes there's just a guy who was a smidge better. Like you go back to 2017, I voted for Harden that year. Westbrook-Rome. They were 47-35. Houston was 55-27. And Harden's stats were pretty much the same as Westbrook's stats. It's just people got excited about triple-doubles and what he meant to the franchise.

There was a little bit of the yoke-age argument. We didn't understand. But we said this before. We didn't understand usage as well. No, we didn't. That's the single highest usage season in the history of the NBA. So then you're looking at it that way and you go, oh, all right. Well, then Zach voted for Kawhi that year.

They had 61 wins. Kawhi had the third worst case out of three. That one never sat right to me because the eye test wasn't there. The eye test is there with Embiid and it's there with Giannis. If you catch them on the right night, you're like these guys are, those three guys I thought were head and shoulders from an eye test, ass kicking standpoint over everybody except

for Durant. From just watching night to night and being like, holy shit. And those are the four best guys in the league and they're, you know, Giannis is at his peak. Jokic is pretty much there and Bede will probably never have a better season than this season.

So to me, there's nothing to be ashamed of. I think this was just a great MVP season. It really was. And if somebody's like, Embiid's my guy. The Simmons thing was fucked up. He did everything for that team. He kept them together and blah, blah.

I'd be like, all right, I get it. I hear your argument. But I just, for me, it's yokage by a hair. That's how I felt. That's how I felt. And I, I really, you know, you know, me, once I got the vote was a big deal. I was really excited. I feel like I'm going to take it seriously. And I was like, make sure you challenge yourself on everything. I mean, I've spent days writing all this stuff down and then making sure. And I was like, okay, but I'm not going to freak out because Embiid just had another 40-12. And that's what I think also happens on social media.

Like Embiid has a 40-12 game. And then it's like, how can you not vote for this guy? You're like, it's a six-month award, man. Yeah. It's a six-month award. And these numbers, nobody's saying Embiid isn't amazing. I just thought that once it got really close, I didn't want to hear the team seating argument. To me, it's not relevant when the records are this similar. I didn't love it,

but I separated it from my voting process. I didn't love the hardcore campaigning that they were doing for Embiid. I thought it was a little over the top, perfectly timing the three big features about him heading into the... It was like watching how they do it in Hollywood when a movie's coming out. And then he was really pining for it in a way that... I don't know. You have a chance to win the title too. Let's talk about that. The MVP is great, but you never heard Jokic be like,

oh man, being a back-to-back MVP would mean so much to me. He could give a shit. He's trying to win playoff games. So I get it. Embiid was probably fired up that he's in this situation to begin with, right? That he's tapped into all the potential that we always hoped that he had.

And I get it. But I would focus on trying to, you and Harden, you don't really have a bench, but you're in this weird Eastern Conference. Who knows? That's all that matters. He's first or second. Who cares? I wouldn't have it factor in the voting. I understand, though,

from a team standpoint, Daryl, if you look at him, the team always has to tell the guy, especially in today's NBA world, that we've always had your back. I get it. We have it every turn. So PR is setting up those interviews. They're not going to allow a situation where Embiid has a moment where he can say, oh, they didn't have my back.

And that's why so many teams are so over the top. I mean, the Houston Rockets sent in a Jalen Green Rookie of the Year campaign to the LifeAdvice email because they didn't have a contact for me. And the thing is, i don't blame them i mean we used to get back in the espn days i'll never forget one of my favorite campaigning items that showed up the timberwolves i forget which award it was for for kevin love but they sent this kevin love cologne it was labeled and like this whole thing wow yeah it was hilarious you still have it you should break that out for i gotta tell you i really wish i had it still the k love now my confidence is to a level where i'll be like i'll just douse myself in kevin love and go out you know back then i might be like what if somebody asks me what i'm wearing and i'm like you're walking

mid-hat beach people like what is that are you Kevin Love? I am. I wish that would happen to me now and be like, what is that? Is that, is that, that? I don't even want to give away any secrets. And they'd be like, is that Kevin Love? Is that Kevin Love 2012? I'd be like, it is. It is. It's the summer one.

So we have, you have Jokic one and B2. I do as well. I have Giannis two. You have Giannis two and B3. Yeah. Are you? Unbelievable. Wow. Yeah. Are you unbelievable? Wow.

Yeah. Really? I do. Yeah. I, if they were a top two seed, I would have talked myself into it. But,

um, I think a bead had, Oh, slightly harder burden. That would be the only reason, but Giannis was right there. I was ready. I mean, God damn, what a tough there. I was ready. I mean, God damn,

what a tough season. Booker four. I've had Booker four. I've had Donchich four. I've had Tatum four. So I'm not sure. We still have like two more days, don't we?

Yeah. Basically, we got to mail it tomorrow night. Yeah. Well, that means I got work to do tomorrow. Right now, I have Booker four.

Luca five. But if, I have Booker four, Luka five. But if... Booker, Tatum, head-to-head, it's kind of tough, but I feel like I'm leaning towards Luka-Booker or Booker-Luka. That's what I am too. I will say,

because I was trying to figure out what to do with all NBA. We'll talk about that in part two. Tatum's case I am too. I will say, cause I was trying to figure out what to do with all NBA. We'll talk about that in part two. Tatum's Tatum's case is just better than I expected. I knew from just watching the season and the eye test factor of it. And just what a great two way player he's been, especially second half of the year and how durable he's been to his 36 minutes a night.

You know, he's played really the majority of the season, but there's some really good advanced stuff with him too. It's a better resume than I was expecting. If you go resume to resume Booker Tatum, it's kind of harder for Booker to hold up.

Yeah, but the problem is Phoenix is so good this year that that's where I'm kind of like, all right, I'm probably going to go Booker. If they can get the 65 wins, now you're in a very, very small elite group, and they probably could have even done a little bit better than that if they really wanted to. Yeah, so when we get to part two,

we'll talk about the LeBron thing. LeBron has not played since the last time we talked. He's going to end up at 56 games. There's some fun Curry versus Trey stuff. We'll do, I guess, Rookie of the Year. Unless you want to talk Rookie of the Year right now

before we go. Actually, let's go. We already did an hour. I'm good to go on all of it. I mean, I just, I'm telling you, for those that think this, this has got to be,

how hard is this compared to other years? Voting for MVP and first team. First team's a little easier. I actually think the all NBA stuff, once I did it again this week,

I went through it. I'm good. I have that done. I know exactly what I'm going to do. But the top five for MVP is it's really, really hard because it's been an incredible season at the top of town.

I don't know how long I've had a vote, but this was the hardest one since 2008 for me. 2008 was KG and Kobe and Chris Paul. And Kobe, you know, had really tried to sabotage his way out of there for the first part of the season. It was really hard to think of

giving him the MVP for that, for me. KG, his stats weren't totally there. I felt like Chris Paul was the most valuable of any of those guys. And it was a lesser version of the same argument we're having now because the difference this time is you have these three guys who are going to be, go down as three of the best guys from this generation, and they might be having peak seasons. And if they're not peak seasons, they're very close to peak seasons. And when you start,

now you're in, and they're not as good as the 90 and 93 guys, but now you're in that category of when it used to be Barkley versus Hakeem versus Jordan and Magic versus Bird versus Jordan. These guys aren't as good as that, but when the star power really rises in a way that honestly Harden, Westbrook, Kawhi, it wasn't there in the same way, as fun as it was to argue about that. They just weren't as meaningful players as these three are. Two things. The Kobe example you just brought up, though, was terrific because he wins it in 08 and then you'll hear retroactively, I can't believe Kobe only won one. You're like,

okay, go through it all. He should have won in 06. 06 was the one he should have won. But it's a bit like the Embiid thing when we look back and you go like, I can't believe Embiid didn't win it. And then on the other part that I thought, imagine if Dur durant were healthy all year oh yeah imagine trying to figure that part of this out because you know when it comes

to the all nba stuff and the lebron durant arguments where i ended up having both in we'll get to that because i don't know if we agree there because i saw i did go and look at seeing some other people that have votes and how they were writing about what they might or might not do to make sure you know you don't want you know in a situation where you're submitting a ballot completely missing somebody but Durant knowing that he was a one seed before he got hurt that's that's a hell of a lot different than where the Lakers landed and where they were all season long so um I just can't imagine what we would do if we had a 70-year, 68-game Durant season here and they were a top four seed in the East.

Yeah, Durant was 35-19 this season. Oh, they won today. So he's 36-19 this season. And when he doesn't play, they were 8-19. But you're right. If he plays 72 games and he does what he did all season, it's an all-time race.

It's a four-team race. And Durant in general, you know, the All-NBAs and the MVP stuff for him never kind of matched the impact of him in a way. And you made the Kobe point about just go back.

Like, it makes sense every year. There was no year where he got screwed. But this would have been, I think, a year that he could have been in the mix. All right, we're going to wrap up. We will see you after the late games. Celtics beating Memphis right now. Sixers beating Detroit right now. Who the hell knows

how this is going to play out? So we will know all the playoff matchups. We'll do Rookie of the Year and All-NBA and that will be the part two of this podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey as well. Rusillo, I'll see you in a few hours. I don't have feelings within. On the wayside, I'm a bruised soul. I don't have feelings within.