The Bill Simmons Podcast - Peyton Manning, Mina Kimes, and Danny Kelly

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by two-time Super Bowl champion and Hall of Fame QB Peyton Manning to discuss his time in the NFL, AFC rivalries, today's rookie QBs, his new Monday Night Football alternate broadcast with his brother Eli on ESPN, and more (4:43). Then Bill is joined by The Ringer's Danny Kelly and ESPN's Mina Kimes for an NFL preview in which they discuss the ultra-competitive NFC West, why Bill thinks the NFC South is full of sleepers, conflicting theories on the Ravens, the young QBs in the AFC East, whacky NFL predictions, and more (40:18). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Peyton Manning, Mina Kimes, and Danny Kelly Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fantasy football is back, and you don't want your team to suck. My favorite fantasy football punishment I've ever heard is the last place guy had to spend 24 hours in a waffle house, and every waffle he ate was one hour off of his count. I want numbers. How many did he end up eating? 12 waffles in 12 hours. I'm Danny Heifetz. I'm Danny Kelly. And I'm Craig Horlbeck.

We host the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on the Ringer Podcast Network. To avoid eating 12 waffles in a waffle house, follow the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on the Ringer Podcast Network. To avoid eating 12 waffles in a waffle house, follow the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste.

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for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, TheRinger.com, and The Ringer Podcast Network, where we announced a couple new podcasts I'm pumped about. One of them is called The Full Go, Chicago.

Yeah, congratulations. We're giving you your own podcast. Jason Goff is the host. You might remember he came on last week. He kind of hinted something was going on, but this podcast will be modeled after JJ Jastrzemski's just award-winning New York, New York podcast where he covers the New York sports scene. Jason is going to be diving in to the Chicago scene. Justin Fields, Zach Levine, the White Sox playoff run, you name it. He's really talented. You heard it last week. Very excited for that one.

And we launched a ringer gambling show. So remember Warren Sharpe and House? They're on on Sunday. That podcast is moving off the ringer NFL feed along with the other Sharpe podcast he was doing with Chris Vernon. And we're adding a new podcast with Sharpe and Ben Solak, who we just signed to the ringer a few weeks ago.

That's going to be Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Hardcore gambling stuff. Sharp will be on all three of those pods. And then on Friday, you get to listen to House's terrible picks and go against them. So that is happening as well. You can, right now, you can subscribe on Spotify for free. You can sign up on Apple, same thing.

And you can get it in time for when the feed launches next week. The Chicago feed's not launching at least for another week. So I will give you a heads up when that's going. And then the third thing to watch out for on Friday, we're launching a third feed. This one I already told you about. This is with Ariel Hawane and some of the MMA stuff he's doing and a few other things that's going to be on there.

You might see Chuck Mendenhall and Pete C. Carroll on there talking MMA stuff he's doing and a few other things that's going to be on there. You might see Chuck Mendenhall and Pete C. Carroll on there talking MMA. It's called Ringer Fight Night. And we're going to be doing these green rooms with Ariel and Chuck and Pete C. before and after giant MMA events, almost always UFC, but we're going to be doing it this weekend. They're going to be in green room on Friday for the weigh-ins. And then right after the card on Saturday night in green room, and you can go in, you can interact with them. As soon as it's over, we flip it into a podcast. We put it right on the ringer fight night feed. So that one, I think that feed goes live on Friday, if you're listening to this. So you can follow it on Spotify, follow it on Apple, jump on. Every time we have a new pod on that feed,

that's where it'll be. Ariel might have some breaking news stuff over the course of the year too that he puts up on there. And then anytime there's a boxing match that we care about, we're going to rope Kevin Clark into doing some boxing stuff as well.

Unfortunately, there's been less boxing stuff that we've cared about these days. But anytime that happens, Kevin Clark into doing some boxing stuff as well. Unfortunately, there's been less boxing stuff that we've cared about these days. But anytime that happens, Kevin Clark is ready. We'll have some guests. I might even pop on that pod for a while. So check it out. Ringer Fight Night. And that's it. So we got the full go, Chicago, Ringer Gambling Show, NFL for now. We're going to add some NBA to that. And then finally, last piece, Ringer Fight Night. So three for you heading into this wonderful, wonderful, wonderful football season. Don't forget about the ringer.com, our fantasy football draft guide, which is awesome. The fantasy football podcast as well. I went on that fantasy football podcast and did my 12 guys that I broke up with. So that's on there if you want to listen to it.

I also went on Ryan Rosillo's podcast on Thursday today because I wanted to talk about Ben Simmons. I knew I had this podcast stacked because coming up Peyton Manning and then Danny Kelly and Meany Times together talking about the upcoming season. So I knew I was doing all football, but I really want to talk about Ben Simmons.

So I invited myself on Rosillo. And if you want to hear us talk about Ben Simmons, go to the Ryan Rosillo podcast. You can hear that. All right. That's enough foreplay coming up Peyton Manning and then Danny Kelly and Mina Kimes. First, our friends, ironically, because two Seattle guests in this podcast from Pearl Jam. All right, Peyton Manning's here. Took the Super Bowl from me. January 2007. We had, I think, a

20-point lead. Came back. We screwed up a third and three. You end up beating Rex Grossman. I'm still mad about it, but I said, after 15 years, I was going to forgive you and have you on. So here you are. Thanks for coming on. Do you recall, Bill, they had 12 people in the huddle, and

they started back to first and 15. if it wasn't for that five yard penalty that third three is converted so blame the 12th guy in the huddle for that super bowl missed opportunity sounds like a coaching mistake it sounds like belichick he should be hung on him a little bit more i guess like i said very unpatriot like uh uh you know even in the afc championship even for the patriots you can only play with 11 Like I said, very unpatriot-like. Even in the AFC Championship, even for the Patriots, you can only play with 11 on offense.

That's still the rule. You ended up winning two. Do you look at this stuff where the over-under for what you could have won with football, it's such a weird sport sometimes, where sometimes it really comes down to one play, right? It's like the Pats get that third and three. You don't win a Super Bowl that year. You have other years where it's like if this one play happens, you probably win the Super Bowl that year. What was the right over-under for you, do you think, when you look back?

I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, I played 18 years. As I tell people, only started two off-seasons in a good mood, right? The others, you're pretty disappointed. I always say there's kind of this argument, Bill, would you rather go eight and eight and you win your last three regular season games and that last game in the locker room,

I mean, it's kind of exciting. People are high-fiving because, hey, we won three in a row and we got some momentum. But the fact is the season's over and you really weren't very good, right? You were 8-8. Or do you go 13-3 and you just kick butt all season and then you get beat on a 45-yard field goal with two seconds left

in a playoff game and it rips your heart and guts out, which one would you rather have? Would you rather be inside of the locker room, or would you rather have your heart ripped out? I'd rather have my heart ripped out because that means we're closer, right? We're knocking on the door. We're doing something right. Let's try to tighten the screws even more for next year. And so that was kind of the thing for us, right? We were doing something right let's try to tighten the screws even more for next year and so that was kind of the thing for us right we were doing something right we couldn't beat new england and

foxborough um you know we had a brutal uh home loss to the steelers and so those are three right there that we felt like we had a super bowl winning team as you know in the playoffs bill not to make comparisons but playoff games are all seventh game elimination games, right? You can't be off for a couple games and still win the series. You better be on that day. If you're not, you're probably going home. So the teams that beat us deserved to beat us. They were better that day.

But when you win the Super Bowl, it makes it that much more gratifying because you know how hard it is to get there. Was it everything you thought it was going to be? I mean, it's been a million years. It was February 2007. It's 15 years ago, but it was everything. It checked every box? No, it is. Yeah. I mean, I think the fact that we were in

Indianapolis and starting there in 98 and just sort of this rebuild from the ground up with a lot of pieces, right? Bill Polian, Adrian James, Marvin Harrison, just a complete startup, if you will. And to, you know, to kind of do it in that fashion, right? To beat the Patriots who had had our number in the playoffs at home in Indy. I still can't remember the electricity in the city that night.

It was, you know, Indianapolis' first, you know, world championship. And I feel like the fans, including the players, Bill, we really felt like we were going to win the Super Bowl just because we had beaten New England. We're like, if we can beat this team, there's no stopping us now. The rain tried to stop us, but we were

certainly on a confidence and emotional high going into that Super Bowl. To have the kind of career you had, do you have to get kicked in the nuts a couple times in that first third of the career and have some brutal losses because it kind of teaches you when you're waking up at five in the morning and all that shit? Had you won in the first, let's say, three, four years, how does that change the course of your career?

Or does it? Is it the same? No, I think you certainly have a good point. My first year, we went 3-13, and my second year we went 13-3. I remember Jim Moore, our head coach, just saying, don't ever take winning for granted, right? Because it's hard to win one game in the NFL. Now you've got to win almost 12 to get into the playoffs, especially maybe 13 with a 17-game season. Then you get in the playoffs, you maybe 13 with the 17 game season.

Then you get in the playoffs, you better win each playoff game. You're playing against great teams. So I think I learned early on that winning is hard. Don't ever take it for granted, but I used to tell like some of our rookies that were coming in and like their first season, like we go 14 and two,

right. Then we follow it up to 13-3. I go, I just have to tell you, this is not normal. This is not how it is, right? This is not really the introduction to the NFL. But when you do that, right, or when you play for the Patriots and you win Super Bowls, it does become the norm. But it's not, right?

It's different. Yeah, look, Bill, the four Super Bowls I got to play in, we had devastating losses the season before in playoff games we probably could have won. Devastating. And the kind of games that probably could have broken up the band, right? And we got to make a bunch of changes. We got to get rid of him.

We got to get a new leader. And we didn't do that. We kind of stayed the course and kept the same players and uh just sort of like i said worked a little harder maybe if that was even possible uh had a few more breaks and we got over the hump the next year to get back to the big game so then eli comes into the league and like in his third year he just runs the slate and wins four playoff games where you're like what the hell it took me nine years how dare you getting home

field way overrated right getting a bye who needs it right you go to Tampa you go to Dallas you go to Green Bay and negative 20 degrees and Tom Poppins face is freezing off you beat Brent Farm like it's sitting hard what's the big deal You go to Green Bay and negative 20 degrees and Tom Poppins' face is freezing off. You beat Brent Farr.

I'm like, it's not hard, but it's a big deal. So, yeah, that was typical Eli, right? Just making it look pretty easy. And that was a fun year. Obviously, we weren't in the Super Bowl that year, but that went in 2011. I think everybody in our family feels like you're a part of that. So it was a fun run there. You're doing the Monday Night Football thing with them, which we're going to talk about in a second.

And you guys are obviously close, but you're also the quarterbacks of these teams overlapping for over a decade there. And it's like being the pilot of an airplane. You don't have a lot of time to worry about some other pilot on another airplane. But how much did you guys talk during that stretch? Did you watch Giants games? Did you feel like you had to be there for him as the older brother?

Or was it just like you tried not to think about it because it was too big of a distraction? Yeah, it's funny. I mean, I think we tried to lean on each other, to tell you the truth. Certainly when playing common opponents, Bill, we used to share a lot of information, right? We were playing the Cowboys.

I mean, that's the first call I make in AE. You know, what was y'all's thought on DeMarcus? You know, what do you think that they're kind of thinking on third down? It's such a huge advantage. It's a huge advantage to have a sibling in the same business as you in any field.

We work out together maybe once or twice in the offseason, usually around our high school football camp. Talk about some concepts or some things we're working on. We really tried to pull for each other. Bill played against them three times.

That was really not that much fun. I remember remember when the hard balls played against each other in the super bowl yeah uh i think about that would have happened for me and eli that would have been probably pretty miserable because i've been on both sides of it it's the greatest feeling in the world and when you don't win it it hurts as much as you think it was. And so that would have bothered one of us if the other was feeling that way. I did have, on occasion, have to turn the game off because I remember we had like a Sunday night game, right? So I'm watching his one o'clock kickoff in the hotel in Minnesota or Seattle. I can't remember where we were. And, you know, Plaxico runs the wrong route.

Joe Buck is ripping Eli's face off. I am getting infuriated watching this game. I'm literally standing on my hotel room bed, yelling at the screen in a sweat. I'm like, you know what? I got a game here in three hours. This is not what I'm supposed to be doing. So, yeah. I mean, when it's your brother,

Bill, you've got to pull hard for him. You've got to defend him, and you've got to fight for him, like any brother would. Eli did the same thing to me, so it was a real treat to have that run together, to be able to share ideas, and to pull hard for each other. I mean, everybody

has a different answer for this. And usually the most common answer is I miss the locker room. I miss the guys. What do you miss the most about playing? Is it that? The locker room and the guys? Yeah. I miss the plane rides. You know? 53

players on a flight together. 53 of your friends after a hard-fought victory in Pittsburgh, and you got an hour, 25-minute flight back to Indianapolis. I mean, there's nothing like it. And you never are going to get to do that again. You never get to fly on a plane with 53 guys that you've just been in this hard-fought victory with. And the adrenaline, the emotion, golly, you just can't describe it. I tell people, Bill, that next time you're on that commercial flight,

you probably don't fly commercial, Bill, but the rest of us fly. How dare you? When that flight attendant says that this plane cannot take off, everybody is seated, and your cell phones are turned off. That is not true. Okay. That is a lie. Because after an NFL game, every player is on their feet. They're high-fiving, they're recapping the game, they're calling home, and the plane takes off just fine. So maybe not street legal legal but it's a fact so yeah uh but the answer to your question is yeah i miss the guys you miss the locker room you get to see them every day we still keep in touch right we're on a good text with some colts with some broncos i saw them all in canton which was awesome that was the best part about it getting to celebrate with high school teammates, friends, college, you know, Colts, Broncos. But being together every day was certainly special.

How aware as a player are you of the media narratives and all that stuff? I mean, it's much tougher now in the Twitter era. And I think you look at the like basically the 25 and under quarterbacks, even the five rookies we have, they've grown up with their phones and looking at their phones and constant feedback and texting and all this stuff. Were you able to shut that out, the stuff like the Manning versus Brady

when that really became a thing? Are you even aware of it or you don't care? Yeah, I mean, look, you're certainly aware of it. But, you know, I mean, it just can't take you away from what you need to be doing, right? I mean, studying the film, watching the practice film, talking to the receivers. And I think the teams that can block out the noise, you know, certainly social media is a huge part of it.

But, I mean, we can't be checking that when we should be in the playbook, right? Missing a blitz read or missing a blocking assignment. So, you know, I think the good players out there have it figured out, sort of have a time for each of it. But, yeah, for me, yeah, I mean, you're certainly aware of it, but at the same time, it's easy to focus

on the team you're playing each week. You must, the thing that must drive you crazy, I'm guessing, is how easy it is to be a quarterback in some ways in 2021 with the way they've changed some of the rules. I mean, you come up in the last era of quarterbacks can still really get crushed.

Wide receivers going over the middle, be careful. There's throws you just weren't able to make because you might be leading wide receiver into a concussion and now you look at it the game is so much more wide open the offenses are so much more innovative and everything is geared toward these quarterbacks

we've guys thrown for 5,000 yards that you never would have guessed would be 5,000 yards when you're watching do you get frustrated? what do you think about as you watch this? yeah, no I don't get frustrated? What do you think about as you watch this? Yeah. No, I don't get frustrated. I'm a fan and I pull hard

for quarterbacks. I pull hard for the game. My dad kind of taught me that. You hear about guys that have that bitter feeling. I was so much better than that guy. I would have done this if I was playing in this system. I've never had that feeling guy. I would have done this if I was playing in this system. I've never had that feeling

before. I like how the game has evolved. I think it's pretty cool that you've got NFL coaches now that are copying college playbooks, right? Because Pat Mahomes

ran that play at Texas Tech. He obviously likes that play. He's comfortable with it. Maybe we can put that play in our Chiefs offense. Whereas back when I was playing, no, no, no. Absolutely not. An NFL team is not going to copy off a college team. That's what he thought.

Now the good coaches are figuring it out hey what's the best way to make baker may feel more comfortable right to make russell wilson more comfortable find things that he likes and sometimes that's kind of following what they did in college and so i think it's great uh it's still hard to play quarterback um yes uh there's no doubt about it i got you know it's look when you play quarterback, you sign up for all of it, right? Some people think you just sign up for the parades and the confetti, but you sign up to have that three-interception game on a Sunday and bounce back the next week.

You sign up to face the media, to face the music each week. And so I got a lot of respect for all those guys playing. Yeah. I mean, I've been thinking about it a lot this year because my new hero, Mac Jones comes in with the pats and he's checking all the boxes, right? Like he's great teammate. He wins the locker room immediately. You start seeing the quotes from some of the other guys. He's doing the offensive lineman get in trouble and they have to run laps.

He runs the laps with them. It's all these things like that. I think you had to, or the quarterback isn't just the guy that throws the ball. There's this outsized importance, what their role is to the team. And you're like the dad, you're the big brother,

you're the friend, but they have to kind of feel like you're in there with them at all times. And it seems like he has that. Absolutely. I love, like he has that. Absolutely. I love, I love hearing that. And that doesn't really surprise you. If you,

you kind of knew anything about Jones coming out of Alabama. And obviously I think Belichick knew that because, you know, he had a great resource in his old assistant coach, Nick Saban in the vetting process. But yeah, absolutely. He's a rookie quarterback.

I mean, your first objective and your first really goal should be to earn the respect of the people you're about to play with, the offensive line, right? The defense, the coaches, right? And you're not doing that by going in and giving a lot of pregame speeches, right? And, you know, calling the guys up. I mean, nobody wants to hear anything that you have to say as a 22-year-old rookie. But if you're getting up from a blindside hit, you know, you're taking responsibility for your play and your interviews, right?

You're running with the offensive lineman. Now, all of a sudden, my 35-year-old right guard is a grown adult. He's going, you know what? I like this kid. I'll fight for this kid. I'll block a little longer for this kid. So, you know, some people miss that boat, right? You can't rush that process of earning that respect, right?

It has to happen with a two-minute drill, right? With standing in the pocket taking a tough hit. So, certainly, I think Jones is on his way to doing the right things. Is there a current QB that you feel kinship with that sees the game and handles his business a lot like you used to, like a proxy for you when you're watching? No, I'm not. It's hard to pick one guy.

Obviously, Tom's still representing the old guard. There's a lot of new players out there that are fun to watch. I mean, I really – look, I mean, how can you not enjoy watching Mahomes play? I mean, he's just fun to watch. He's Favre, right? I mean, I used to watch Favre growing up. Certainly when I got in the NFL, I mean, I always wanted to see Brett Favre. There's that great Randy Moss NFL films mic'd up moment. Growing up, certainly when I got in the NFL, I mean, I always wanted to see Brett Favre, right?

There's that great Randy Moss NFL films, Mike Dutt moment. Hey, I'm going to watch Brett Favre, right? And it's Brett Favre. I think Mahomes does the same thing. Josh Allen is an exciting player. I think he's just got a great future. So, you know, I really think the quarterback position is in good shape in the NFL, and it needs to be. We need to keep it in good shape in the NFL and it needs to be we need to keep it in good shape we need you

know good college players coming out being good NFL players it helps the whole system so I'm a fan of quarterbacks I'm a defender of quarterbacks I mean one thing on this thing Eli and I are doing I'd be hard-pressed to see us ever saying anything really negative. Right, you can't. I'm going to say that safety made an unbelievable play before I say that was just a horrible decision by the quarterback because I know what it's like. I know how hard it is. Sometimes you just don't see those guys.

So I think that's one thing that will always be true. So when you're doing this thing with Eli, which I think is really cool, you're doing what, 10 games, right? We're doing 10 games. You know, kind of the thing, Bill, I'm going to be in Denver at a buddy's kind of garage cave. Eli's going to be in his back house in Jersey. We're watching the game together, he and I,

which that's the coolest part. Number one, I haven't watched the Monday night football game with Eli since the fall of 1993, right, in New Orleans. I mean, you talk about being busy once you get into college, NFL, Monday nights, you know, he's not a – Eli never flew to Indianapolis to watch a Monday night game with me, but he was playing for the Giants. But he and I are kind of – it's like we're at a bar watching the game, Bill,

and the viewer is kind of sitting down with us, watching when the game is great, we will be on the game. We're probably not going to analyze the second-in-one running play that nobody really cares about, right? During that time time we're going to be telling a war story we're going to have Charles Barthley on to tell us why he didn't play college football right yeah you know entertaining stuff but if when the quarterback is talking to that uh coach on the sideline right Eli and I are going to probably role play and I'm going to tell

you what the coach is saying to him and Eli's going to tell me what the quarterback is saying back right I'm going to tell you what the what Gruden is saying in the Derek Carr's ear and then Eli's going to tell you what Derek says to the actual huddle right so I think anytime you can take people behind the ropes you certainly do it but in a more casual fashion, sitting at home, watching the game, maybe having a cold beverage at the same time, like all football fans are doing. And you think Romo's right. I watched a game with Romo once,

like he could, okay. And he does this too, when he does the TV stuff where he can kind of tell from the way the defense is set and the plays, it's like this weird quarterback thing, which I'm sure you have. And I'm sure Eli has, how much are you going to tap into that where it's like,

Oh shit, they're in nickel. It's third. Oh, he's watch this. The slot guys coming across. Like, are you going to be tipping us off?

Yeah. I mean, I think Tony has a great, great knack for that. And I would probably say that Tony and Chris Collins were, are, you know, able to go to practice. They're probably having a little more access than maybe Eli and I have.

I mean, the only reason Eli and I signed up for this is because we didn't have to fly to, you know, Seattle for a game. Because, you know, I'm coaching my Marshalls flag football team on Saturday. I've got to be there. Eli's an assistant coach on his daughter Ava's lacrosse team. He's got to be there. This allows us to do both Bill, to be home on the weekends and then just to watch

a game on Monday. I think certainly anytime you have some insight and you have an idea just like I would if I was watching the game at home, I'd say, you know, throw it to Gronk here or, hey, run the ball here, right? You got two downs to score. Whether, you know, I'm not going to try to beat Tony Romo because I think he's got a pretty special knack for that. Yeah, I wasn't even thinking of the Romo thing.

It was something you were the, that was what you were known for more than anything, was going up to the line, looking around, figuring out what the defense didn't want you to do, and then doing it. So I would assume that still, that skill translates to an 85-inch TV. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, it's two quarterbacks on it,

but I gotta tell you, I feel like quarterbacks understand defense as well as certain defensive players, right? That's the goal, right? I mean, I think Ed Reed, what made him so special is because he learned what the quarterback is looking for. And he tried to do something different. He's like, I'm not going to do what Peyton wants me to do, right? That's different.

And so I was kind of the same way. I mean, Tony Dungy, the best thing that he brought to me when he came in 2002 was he really taught me the defense. He's like, Peyton, these are the rules. This is what really bothers this defense, okay? So think that way. Belichick, there's no doubt, has benefited Brady for that. Hey, Tom, this is the core integrity of this defense. These are the holes in it.

Let's take advantage of that. So I think even though Eli and I both play quarterback, we can go into the defense's mind and kind of have that back-and-forth cat-and-mouse game. And so hopefully that'll be pretty interesting for people. And how to get the defense. Exactly, how to attack it. And then, you'll be pretty interesting for people. And how to get the defense. Exactly. How to attack it.

And then, you know, look, what bothers the quarterback? What bothers the defense, right? It's a two-way street. You mentioned Ed Reed. When the NFL was doing that NFL 100 stuff and Belichick was on that show where he showed the Ed Reed play where Ed Reed faked you out and did the 180 turn for the interception. And Belichick, honestly,

he was like having a football orgasm about it. He's like, that's the greatest play I've ever seen. Like he was like losing his mind. And that's the funniest thing with him is everybody thinks he's like this dead cyborg because of the press conferences. But the guy loves the actual football, the game, the stuff that goes with it.

He could talk about that for like days and days and days. You got a taste of it even in that. Hey, I mean, when you get a compliment from Bill Belichick, like it means something. It matters because he's not really impressed by a lot of things, right? He's impressed by his own coaching success. He's like, this is what this is what you're supposed to do i remember sitting on the bus with him at a pro bowl one time and i loved

hearing about the old you know days when he was a d coordinator and i'm like you know uh bill what was it like you know joe montana he's like well you know i mean you got jerry rice on these little short drag routes like how hard is it to complete it to him? Like, you know, it's not that hard. How about Jim Kelly in the cake gun office? I mean, you got Thurman there. You got, you know, but I mean, I'm like, don't ever ask Bellagio what he thinks of me. Because I don't want to hear it.

You know, it's not that hard when you got Adrian James and Marvin Harrison. So when he compliments Ed Reed, that tells you how special of a player he thinks Ed Reed is, right? And so it was great. Bill came to Canton to see Jimmy Johnson and Bill Cowher inducted on Saturday night. And I'm sitting there getting ready to watch the next speaker. Harry Carson comes and grabs me and says, hey, come with me backstage. Somebody wants to see you. And it was Bill Belichick that just wanted to shake my hand

and congratulate me in person. So that meant a lot. Certainly had a lot of battles against him, but certainly great respect as well. Yeah, I mean, that could almost be a football documentary, you versus Belichick, how that evolved over the years. He definitely, I think the Pats felt like

they kind of had the Colts number there and then it just flipped. And then all of a sudden you were, you know, putting up 38, 40 points against us. I didn't like it. I'll just tell you, I didn't like that stage of the rivalry that much. It's funny, Bill, because like, you know, when I obviously always wanted to play for the team that drafted me, I think any player should. That should be the goal. It's funny, Bill, because like, you know, when I obviously always wanted to play

for the team that drafted me, I think any player should. That should be the goal. You get hurt, you miss an entire season, things happen, you got to go find somewhere else to play. And I remember visiting, like, talking with the 49ers and talking with Seattle and I was talking to the Cardinals

and kind of like the whole recurring theme in my mind, I was like, I Cardinals and kind of like the whole recurring theme in my mind. I was like, I'm just an AFC guy. I just think I should stay in the AFC. And it's like, if you're a fan, you're like, why would you not? Why would you get away? Please get away from the Patriots, right? You know, go play in the NFC.

And I don't know. It's just like, you know, if you're going to get to the Super Bowl, you're going to have to go through New England. So I as well just play him in the AFC championship every year and then have a chance to beat him to win the Super Bowl. So I feel like New England, you know, had a little bit of a role in my decision to stay in the AFC, believe it or not, and go to Denver. And, of course, we end up playing them in two AFC, believe it or not, and go to Denver. Of course, we end up playing them

in two AFC championships, Denver versus the Patriots. We almost had you in that second one. I like the lead. I'm on the team. I don't know if you knew, Peyton, but this team's been in my life my whole life. I'm on the team. Maybe that was you covering

Welter. I knew there was one guy shorter than Welter out there. Now that I think about it, maybe that was you. I was there spiritually. They needed my energy. They needed my positivity. Got it. What age for Brady becomes ridiculous for him to still be a quarterback for you? Because I would have said 44, but they're the favorites to win the Super Bowl.

But it's like, is 48 ridiculous? 50? Like, what number is it? I would have said 44, but they're the favorites to win the Super Bowl. But it's like, is 48 ridiculous? 50? What number is it? I think we've passed it, to tell you the truth. I mean, that's what Tom has done. And he deserves all the credit. I know he's going to talk about people that have helped him along the way,

but he has flat-gunned it, kept himself healthy. And it's extremely impressive. Hey, I don't know if you listened to my speech in Canton, but there was some booing going on at Brady when I kind of referenced him, which is it's going to be important for him to get ready to hear those boos in New England. Bill, that would be up to you, right? Are you going to lead that, or are you going to defend it? No, we would never boo Tom Brady. Okay, we'll see.

My note in there was that when Tom Brady gets inducted into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot in 2035, that was my line. I think some people missed that. Yeah, that's a good joke. And by that point, it's only funny when you get it on the spot and not three weeks later but thank you but you know

does he play nine more years it wouldn't surprise me so I don't know what to believe anymore I mean I felt like you could have played in your 40s if you hadn't had the neck thing ultimately if you if you had somehow been able to keep your body you would have

done all the training stuff and the physical stuff to keep your body, you would have done all the training stuff and the physical stuff to keep you there, but you actually had a thing that Brady's never had to do with. You had a real disc thing and a whole neck thing. Yeah, it was funny. My brother Cooper had to stop playing. He was a receiver at Ole Miss. He had neck problems and had to give up his career just like that.

It was terrible, right? When you grow up with your dad playing and you have a chance to play and just on a Wednesday when they tell you it's over. It was tough, and the way he handled it was extremely impressive. But I remember at the time I was a junior in high school. Eli would have been in sixth grade. They kind of checked out my neck and Eli's neck and

to be sure there wasn't some kind of you know some issue there that maybe they hadn't discovered yet and I remember them just saying that Peyton your neck's not it's not perfect by any means but but you're okay to you're okay to keep playing but like it's almost like they're saying let's just kind of keep an eye on it so a lot of ways i had this unbelievable string of health but like when i had my neck problems in 2011 it was almost like it you know boy i've had this unbelievable run from 94 to 11 without any neck problems but now they're here so then i was able to manage them for four years and then you know 2015 i mean mean, when you can't do certain things that you used to do, you know, it's just time probably to move on. And also, it was important to me, Bill, to leave feeling good, right?

Some people wait till they feel bad to leave. You know, I still feel pretty good, right? It worked out today and going to be at flag practice this afternoon. I think if you hang on maybe longer than you should, sometimes that's not the case. still feel pretty good, right? It worked out today and going to be at flag practice this afternoon. I think if you hang on maybe longer than you should, sometimes that's not the case. Quick things, then we're going to go. You didn't end up doing the actual like Monday Night Football

or any of those other jobs because of the travel. You somehow waited. Technology moved to you. Now you don't have to go anywhere and you get to announce games anyway. So kudos to you for that. I thought that was smart.

Very well played. I'm looking forward to watching that on ESPN2, all the other places. The commissioner stuff that started with you, like someday, could it be that? Where did this come from? Is there any validity to it? Is it something you'd want to do? It doesn't seem like your kind of thing. I don't know where that came from.

That was so far off my radar. The only thing I was thinking about in that speech was, A, being on time, right? Because I'd already said, hey, going to be six minutes, right? And like I said, all the people that I wanted to thank were there, right? And I got to hug them all after the event. So I didn't have to say their names. And so you got to have something else to say. So I said, let's just talk about the game. Let's talk about football. Let's talk about youth football. So, look, I said this the

other day in an interview with Bob Costas that I think if the NFL's lucky, Roger Goodell does it for another 20 years. I know he takes his bullets, but he's been great for the game. So, you know, I don't know what you call it, fan of the game, ambassador of the game. That's what I want to be. I don't want to be a critic. I want to be a supporter of it. And I kind of want to stay

on the player's side. You know, Eli and I, I think we'll be speaking from the player's side on this ESPN2 broadcast, right? Even though we don't play anymore, you still feel like you're a player by kind of staying on the player fan side. You wouldn't want all the travel. The commissioner travels too much. You're not doing that. You're on planes constantly. You're dealing with a bunch of rich billionaire assholes.

You're not ever doing that. I don't see that one. Commissioner Goodell has not flown with strangers in a long time. He flies in a very nice airplane. So, no. That's right. When he suspended Brady for four games, I'm sure you guys were on a text cheerleading each other.

I'm sure you love that. Absolutely. Yeah, I was a big part of that for sure. Wait, before we go, can we talk about Morrow really quick and what you're doing with that? Yes. Maura Mant was such a great friend to me, Bill. And me.

She was this advisor to me on like all things, right? I mean, I didn't call her about how to break down a cover two defense, but I said, hey, should I do this interview? Does that make sense? Or, you know, what do you think of this idea? And she was available any time of the day or night, right? I mean, 2 a.m. in New York, she's getting back to you. And just, I don't know, I still have her phone number in my phone.

I see her name, and I just want to send her a text because I want her to respond. Anyway, we've lost her way too early. And we started a scholarship in her name at NYU, a film school scholarship. It'll start in 2022. It's a two-way deal. It pays great tribute to her for her love of film she loved New York so NYU was a great place and it's allowing someone to have some of the same opportunities that she had so a lot of people that contributed to it Bill uh uh certainly

appreciate your gift and it's been a combination of people like you, Russell Wilson, J.J. Watt, Paul Rudd, all these people that Maura knew and impacted. Right. And always, you know, used to give Maura a hard time. You know, she's the all time name dropper, but she's like, it's not really name dropping because I know them. Like I know that. I'm like, you know what? You're right. It's not a name drop. So anyway, thanks for bringing that up. And, uh, I think it'll be a, it'd be a special way to honor her. And we've got a big celebration of life coming up for her September 13th. Uh,

actually Eli and I are both going to the celebration and we're doing our first show in New York. Uh, we're going to be together because we're going to both be coming from Mars celebration. wow. Well, I love that you did it.

And she was one of a kind, I mean, definitely a character out of a movie or a TV show and I think everybody that everybody that dealt with her

did anything with her like she was just indelible so I think that's really cool congrats on that I was happy to be involved at least

a little bit good luck with good luck with Eli good luck with this TV thing I hope you like it I hope you keep doing it. I can't wait to watch. Thank you, Bill. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at

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and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. All right, we can't say this is the greatest moment in Seattle sports history because the Seahawks won a Super Bowl and so did the Sonics, the nearly departed Sonics in 1979.

I think the Mariners won 118 games once or some high numbers. That's probably up there. 116. I think. It's not like there haven't been some good Seattle moments, but I think this is in the top 10. Danny Kelly and Mina Kimes together on the BS podcast. What a day. What a day

for Seattle. So happy to have both of you. So does this mean we're going to spend 80% of the time talking about the Seahawks instead of the Patriots? Is that where this is going? I can't do more Mac Jones. I think my audience is going to rebel. They know. Yeah, they know. My audience gets it. Kyle and Eric said it for

Mac Jones. They get it. Seattle's a good way to start, though, because I wanted to talk about three divisions and MVPs. So we'll go out of order. The NFC West, it's a really fun division. Everybody has a take on all three of these teams.

I think we all feel like we're going to probably make the playoffs. And then everybody has a take for A, who's going to win the division. B, who has the highest upside. And then C, who's like the most logical Super Bowl pick. So Mina, you're biased.

Danny, you're biased. Danny, you're biased. Mina, I'll start with you. Who do you like out of this division? Make a case. Well, I'm biased, I think, in multiple ways. I know. When it comes to the NFC West. I think all three, so the three teams are,

I assume you're alluding to are Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Yeah, I'm out on Cliff. I thought Cliff committed some crimes against coaching last year. I cannot support him as a playoff coach. Cliff jumping. I think the Cardinals are feisty.

They're still a feisty team. There's still some intrigue there. We could be looking, you know, I mean, we'll see. I think generally the NFC West is the undisputed best division in football. Wait, you were going to say it. Were you going to say four playoff teams out of one division?

It felt like you almost wanted to say it. You caught me. How did you? You saw me, guys. You saw me steering the car around mid-take. I thought I was too good at that now. That's something you got to learn how to do is check yourself before you say like what the producers want you to say,

the spicy thing. I think there are four playoff caliber teams in this division. Wow. Danny, you weren't expecting that. I don't have the Cardinals in, though. When I go through the NFC, I don't have them in. But right now, I'm leaning Rams slight edge over Seattle,

but I think they could totally go either way. What do you have, Danny? I got the Rams. I just think that Stafford in that offense is going to just unlock so many different things for them. And I mean, this has been one of the better offenses in the NFL, especially in 2018, 2019.

Legitimately high-flying, high-octane, and that was with Jared Goff on our center. And so getting a guy like Stafford in there, I think could have massive repercussions for the rest of the teams in this division. However, they are losing the defensive coordinator. They lost a few key players on defense. So

how that balances out, I'm not quite sure. I think that it's going to be a situation where it's probably like the Rams win 12, the Seahawks win 11, the 49ers win 11, and it's just a really tight race. We know this is going to come down

to some weird-ass Rams-Seahawks game with a final drive and a field goal that's going to go. Probably Seattle's driving, to be clear, because every Seattle game ends this way. We already know that, and it's going to be one game that decides it. No question.

You can get your score scoregami in here, Mina. Week 18, we got Niners at Rams. Seattle at Cardinals. What's interesting, on FanDuel, usually there's at least one favorite that's close to even odds. Right now it's Niners plus 190, Rams

2-1, and Seahawks plus 280. If you really like one of those, you're getting 2-1, and Seahawks plus 280. So if you really like one of those, you're getting 2-1 odds or better. I actually was surprised by the Seahawks odds. I thought plus 280 seemed pretty high. I would have had them all next to each other. I also like the Rams the most,

but I think the Niners are probably weirdly the safest bet because of the bounce back and the easier schedule, stuff like that. The lack of depth does worry me. I think they're not the only back and the easier schedule, stuff like that. The Rams, the lack of depth does worry me. I think they're not the only team that could say that, but they really are all in with what, like 15 guys, 17 guys. Yeah. And then just kind of playing whack-a-mole at all the other places.

I worry about their receiving depth. Do we think Atwell's going to be good? What do we think of him? I think they've got pretty good receiving depth, actually. I mean, so Atwell, he was one of the What do we think of him? I think they've got pretty good receiving depth, actually. Let's go through it. He was one of the few players I actually got to watch in the Rams preseason who might play, which, you know, Sean McVay and his whole tree now.

Matt LeFleur doesn't do it. The Tennessee, like, he doesn't play anyone. But I did get to see Atwell, who is approximately my size. Believe we're about the same size. And he looked, they gave him a ton of reps he's a returner too and basically i think the strategy they're drafting him was they need a vertical threat they signed deshaun jackson they know deshaun jackson is probably not going to play 18 games i'm not counting him so at will in my mind is jackson insurance and the speed is as

advertised but um i would I think when I say they have depth behind Woods and Cup who are like yes you know old reliables Van Jefferson was kind of quiet last year I think he is probably him and Deshaun Jackson are both wide receiver three um so that's five starting caliber guys. Like to me, the depth concern with the Rams would be the offensive line. Cause I said, I mean, Whitworth is like 50 now, 39, I think or something, but he's really old and, um, just not a lot of depth there. And then on the other side of the football, not clear other than Leonard Floyd, who's rushing the passer. There's some names in the mix. And then you alluded to it. A lot of guys left in the secondary. So there's players who have not played a lot, like David Long, for example, who are going to have to step up. Danny, Mina just said Deshaun Jackson is still

a viable starting receiver. I just wanted to make sure you caught that. I wasn't the only one that heard that. I'm writing Deshaun out. I'm done. I'm done on Deshaun.

There's some buzz on him in the preseason so far. I'm sure there is. There's buzz every year. Then he has one catch for four yards, and then he's hurt for a month and a half. His mom is going to come for you. She's feisty on Twitter.

And her handle is Deshaun Jackson's mom, so you know it's her. Oh, Jesus. That sounds terrifying. The Rams, to me, fit that profile, Danny, of there was something wrong with you the year before, and now you've fixed it with an above average solution, right? Like the Chargers are another example. They had a coach that seems like an awesome guy, but I'm not sure he's the head coach. And now you bring in Staley, who

actually has a chance to be like a really good coach and, you know, their defense can be much better. And it's just like, that's a tangible, this should be worth two, three wins. Stafford for Goff, if Stafford could just stay on the field for four months with McVay, that's got to be worth four wins, three wins, four wins. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm actually going a little overboard with my Stafford love just because I think there's some people out there that feel like he's always just been overrated throughout his career. But I like that. That's a good zag with him.

I don't know. I just feel like the way that he and I think this is the actual language that McVay has used, like he can activate every part of that playbook, every part of the offense, all three levels, the things that they can do with play action. I mean, Stafford is so good, has been so good on play action. He gives his receivers a chance. And I think, honestly, just like listening to Flying Coach

and just the interviews that we've heard in the media with McVay, like he is so excited. He's so excited. Seamless. Yeah. He's just so excited to have a quarterback

that can like run his offense. By the way, I'm going down. My take on the year is like mcveigh and i'm not like the only one that says this but i think mcveigh wants to remind everybody that he is like still the league's preeminent genius like shanahan whatever that's fine we get it like lefleur that's good i'm the guy like i'm the reason uh i keep wanting to say mcfleur lefleur has a job so i don't know i'm just like this so you think it's like a little too much shanahan love for him this is like revenge

he's like oh great you platoon trey lance and jimmy g for a series everybody loses their minds yeah the lance jimmy thing is way more strange and innovative and could potentially combust but also could potentially destroy worlds. I feel like that's in terms of just like coaching innovation and like Shanahan is going to show out in such a big way with Trey Lance, regardless of what you think about Trey Lance, by the way, that's not an assessment of him.

It's more what Shanahan has shown he could do with a run game. And now that he's got a dual threat quarterback, I feel like that's going to be really hard for McVay to top. I don't see the Trey Lance thing as like a real person for this year. Like I watched, I think two of the preseasons. Did you watch the third one? I saw the third one. I saw the first quarter of the third one when they did the platoon thing.

I just think he's raw. I think I'm not saying like upside wise, he's not going to get there, but I I just think he's raw. I'm not saying upside-wise he's not going to get there, but I don't think he's played a ton of football. I was watching his throws and throwing eight-yard passes 200 miles an hour. I just feel like Jimmy G is going to be the guy for them. They'll

use Lance a little Taysom Hill-ish. Ultimately, I don't see Lance. I think it's going to be Jimmy G this year because they have a, a real chance to make a Superbowl. This isn't the year to like experiment with your own young guy who might not be ready yet unless he's like transcended out of the gate, which I just didn't see.

You seem like you disagree, Mina. Well, I think he's such a good runner that some of the erratic passing, it's erratic because at times he'll throw these balls with beautiful touch. I think in week one, he had that bomb. It was like a deep over to Shurfield. And you see like the goods, but then the fastballs come out. And I think Shanahan knows that and he's nervous and he wants to get him reps. But when he's under center or in the gun and he is a threat to run, it's so hard to stop.

I mean, they're on that drive. They had him in, um, they had a couple of plays. There was the touchdown, which he could have run from. It was just a simple zone read,

but it could have been from anywhere on the field. He would have scored, but there was one earlier where Raheem Mostert, who's also like one of the fastest running backs in the league, it was a counter-bash concept. So the guards pull, Trey follows them, Mostert runs away,

he keeps, and he gets the first down. But if you watch Trey Lance on that play, he could have run 80 yards and you realize that is the nightmare situation. Like, Bill,

think how good the Niners' run game has been with Jimmy Garoppolo. Right. Like there were plays in the playoffs and during that Super Bowl run where they ran like eight straight runs. Now imagine Jimmy Garoppolo is like one of the three best running quarterback running quarterbacks in football.

Like it's just a nightmare. I get it. I just never I'm older than both of you. I've never seen the platoon thing really work. It has not. This is goes back to Dallas in the really work. It has not. This goes back to Dallas in the 70s. It's just never worked. So I think

it's cute. And I think ultimately it could be a little saintly, but I still feel like it screws the other guy up. I think when you're the quarterback, you're like the driver. But by the way, I wanted to say in the Rams, Danny, the McVay thing with Goff, going from Goff to Stafford and McVay as the torture Goff, going from Goff to Stafford, and McVeigh as the torture genius.

Like, it's got to be, like he's building Ferraris, right, in a garage. He's spending a year building this awesome whatever model of a Ferrari. And then this terrible driver comes in and like bangs against guardrails with it and stuff. And he just must have like, you can read between the lines on a lot of his Goff stuff.

I think it like probably like drove him nuts. Oh, you know, and that playoff game last year when the guy broke his thumb, who came in as the, or what happened? Oh, he got hurt. Yeah. I got the concussion. I think McVay was so fired up to win a game without golf, which just like pulling a guy off the street and winning the playoff game anyway. So I think he, I'm with both of you.

I think he's going to have a lot to prove this year with this. I mean, if you listen. A little FUC is impossible. If you listen to him, how he was talking to the different guests on Flying Coach, I know I'm plugging it up, but it really, I thought it was illuminating. Is there like a bonus involved in this? Yeah. How many times

do I have to say it again? I can't remember. Anyway. No, I think, honestly, it was like illuminating. They're so competitive with each other. And they all started out together sort of like they were peers to start out with. And I'm maybe just reading too much into it. But I really do think he's like, man,

I'm tired of this. Tired of hearing about Shani. Tired of hearing about all this stuff. Let's bring it back to what I did in 2018. Do you think this is going to be like Heifetz and Craig? Like eight years from now at the Fantasy Pod? Like just frenemies? Just outdoing each other's takes.

Trying to destroy each other? Yes, absolutely. So we talked about the Rams, talked about the Niners. Which you're... I like having fans of teams because nobody knows their own team more than the real fan.

Like I know with my team, I think my team has a chance to go 12 and five, 11 and six. The thing I worry about is the Gilmore thing. The Gilmore thing is the deal. It's the guillotine hanging over this season. I think we can get by it. Maybe we can beat Miami.

I think we're gonna beat Miami in week one, but ultimately the destiny of this team, we still need somebody who can shut down the other team's best receiver. And that's what he does. And that's what he's one of the best in the world and he's not going to play the first six games. It makes me nervous. So what makes you nervous about the Seahawks, Mina?

First I'll say I think Danny and I are harder on the Seahawks than people who don't cover the Seahawks and we are like you guys see our public face, our dark fan thoughts. We have a group text that's been going for... Danny, I don't know if you

know this, Bill. Our friendship is like since... It predates Russell Wilson, certainly. Yeah, it's like 2011. Yeah. 2010 or 11. Is it like a message board friendship? Like a Seahawks blog board? We don't have to get into the particulars. The point is, we share our darkest thoughts with each other on that.

You know, like, Oh my God, did you see Daryl Taylor in the preseason electric? You know, I would never tweet that, but I share it with Danny. My concerns are, um, I would say the biggest one is cornerback and the CX.

There's been a lot of moving chess pieces, trades happening. There's still rumors. This is about, you know, signings and whatnot, but she killed Griffin left. He's in Jacksonville where he's been recently toasted by Marquez Calloway.

And in Seattle, it's a question. They signed a killer Weatherspoon. They've got DJ Reed, a bunch of former Niners. But it is unclear how that's going to shake out. Trey Flowers is still there. Those are not top-tier corners. So I think that's the biggest issue. I actually think the front seven looks pretty good. The pass rush has a lot more depth this year. Then on the other side of the football,

I think it's actually for me, Danny, less personnel and more Ken Shane Waldron, who formerly with the Rams, now Seattle's offensive coordinator. Can he fix the offensive problems you saw in the second half of the season where you remember the offense, which was this like incredible high flying unit in the first half, ground to a halt. And it wasn't just because they started running the ball. There were a lot of problems

with that offense. And I think you really... I have to see Waldron do it before I believe it. Danny? Yeah, I think I pretty much agree with everything, especially with the defensive side of the ball.

And on offense, I think it's A, Shane Waldron. Like if he can do exactly what Manny was saying and basically figure out a way to make the Seahawks offense run where it's not just play action and throw it deep. Because it felt like they kind of got stuck in this thing where, and Seahawks players have even said this over this offseason. Like you heard DK Metcalf talk about it.

Teams knew what we wanted to do. We want to run the ball. We want to throw deep on play action. And so they started taking away, being more capable of taking those things away. And I think, A, Schottenheimer didn't do a very good job of adapting. And then also, Russell Wilson just didn't play very well

in the second half of the season. And so I think... Do you think he was healthy? I mean, it's possible he was hiding something. I don't think he's missed a practice Bill in his entire career like he's been the kind of guy who just battles it out so knock on wood

I had to knock wow I'm sure we'll pause this easiest way to make a dog bark just knock on stuff what the fuck is going on a Lenny cameo that means I have a delivery that's the only reason he ever parks.

The sense I got watching. I'm sorry. No, we like it. Keep it going. No, you can do it. The sense I got watching Wilson in the second half of the season, Danny, was he was. I'm not trying to like armchair psychology, like interpret, I guess, what was going through his head. But he was so spooked by those very heavy turnover games and the struggles

against New York. It almost felt like he was simultaneously afraid to take risks, but also was passing up on layups underneath. And he was still big game hunting, even though defenses were playing or following the Giants lead and just playing a ton of too high, which is as far as like offensive trends or defensive trends, I think something we're going to see and we have been seeing a lot across the nfl against the more explosive quarterbacks you're josh allen's you're patrick mahomes you certainly saw it against seattle they just didn't have a solution for it yeah i think the two things that really make me excited well three things that make

me very excited about the season shane waldron i think just the scheme. If you're going to, if you are going to design an offense that is balanced and run heavy in the NFL, I want the Rams offense. I want what he's bringing over from the Rams because they're still going to make explosive plays, very creative. They do all the stuff that's nerds like with motion before the snap, all that stuff. Like it's just great. So I'm really excited about that. Two guys I think could be potentially keys in getting them more layups, getting them more easy first downs. Number one, Gerald Everett, who comes over from the Rams,

knows the playbook, knows the language, everything. He's really strong after the catch. They can get him in screen game. They can get him little slants. He can run after the catch. Just give Wilson easier shots to get first downs on third downs and things like that.

And I think Eskridge, the reason that they drafted this guy, even though he's like 24 years old, played at a small school, is because he's very good in the short and intermediate area in terms of taking a ball and running after the catch, breaking tackles. He's short, but he's not small. You know what I mean? He's like 190 pounds, but he's like 5'9". So he's compact.

He can bring that sort of... I don't know if he's Debo Samuel-esque or whatever, but after the catch, make things happen. CX haven't really had that, to be honest. Last year, especially, they didn't have that, especially once Tyler Luckett got hurt towards the second half of the year. I mean, they're leaning on Freddie Swain,

like a rookie six-rounder. So getting those two pieces in this offense, I mean, they're leaning on like Freddie Swain, like a rookie six-rounder. So getting those two pieces in this offense, I think, could be really crucial for them and getting Wilson just easier, you know, first downs and not having to rely so much on just those chunk plays.

What about, where are we with Pete Carroll these days? The host of season one of Flying Coach. Flying Coach, yeah. What's the frustration level on Twitter versus the actual text thread frustration?

The text people don't see. Like a 7 out of 10? 5 out of 10? Where are we? I'd say 8. Ooh. Wait, no. 8 being frustrated, Danny?

No. Oh, sorry. 8 being satisfied. 10 is satisfied. 1 is get him out of here. Danny and I are more positive about Pete Carroll, I think, than C.O.

You were open in the kimono. You are... This is... We are like, I would say, I think. You were open in the kimono. We are, I would say, less critical than Seahawks Twitter of Pete Carroll. Okay. All right. So we have Rams 1A, Niners 1B, Seahawks 2, or Seahawks 1C? I have them as 1B over the Niners, personally. Okay. So you have 1A, 1B, Seahawks, 1C, Niners.

What do you have, Danny? This is tough. I think I have it the same. I have Rams and Seahawks, 1A, 1B, 49ers, 2, I guess. Got it. B, just B. It's a complicated system. What are we doing here?

I confused myself. So we like the Rams. Then you two like the Seahawks more than the Niners. I do. But we have them all bunched together and it wouldn't be surprising if any of them won the division. They're all good. So I lean quarterbacks.

And I think Stafford and Wilson. I think there's eight good teams this year that I trust. And I think they're three of the eight, which is always interesting when they're on the same division. All right. We're going to come back, talk about two other divisions and MVP in one second. All right. We can make this fast.

Just NFC South. Let's give it to Tampa. But I think there's a second playoff team in this division. Really? You caught the Jameis. I see that look in your eye, Bill. That's Jameis. I see that look in your eye, Bill. That's Jameis. I actually...

What's interesting about the NFC South to me is I think you could make a case for each team. Francesa was on this pod last week and made this whole Saints case. The Saints over-under is nine. He's like, that's ridiculous. They almost made the Super Bowl last year and their quarterback couldn't throw a deep pass. Now they're going to have a quarterback that can actually throw

a deep pass. You can't tell me they have a quarterback that can actually throw a deep pass. Like, you can't tell me they're an 8-19 next year. That's crazy. And it's Sean Payton, the infrastructure. They have some blue chippers, so I get it. Like, yeah, could they go 10-7? Wouldn't be shocked. Atlanta, who fits that classic sleeper profile of terrible, you know,

fourth quarter luck last year. They had some injuries. They got a new coach, Kyle Pitts, the whole thing. So I could see that. And then Carolina, who is 12 to one to win that division. They have the worst odds. But Carolina's overrunner, I think, is like seven and a half or eight. They have good guys, man.

Like they have a couple, like, studs. And then if you think Darnold, if he's better than Bridgewater, they were in games for a while. The Matt Rule thing. I don't know. Out of those three, who goes 10 and 7? I'm presenting the cases.

Mina doesn't like any of them. No, I think the Saints have the chance of making the playoffs. The problem with the Saints is depth, really. I mean, they cannot lose anyone. And they've already lost a couple of people for the first half of the season. No Michael Thomas.

As much as I love Marquis Calloway, who I alluded to, that's a very, very thin group still. Obviously, very good offensive line. They'll have some other guy. The rule with the Saints is it's some other dude they picked off the street who's got 10 catches for 120 yards. And then on the other side of the ball, this is a defense I think we've been kind of taking for granted

for a while as being really good over the last three or four years under Dennis Allen, who's still the defensive coordinator. But Hendrickson's gone. They're hoping Peyton Turner, they drafted, can step up. Marcus Davenport looks fantastic, who's opposite Cam Jordan,

but David Onyemata is a sneaky loss to suspension first few games of the season. And then in the secondary, it's not 100% clear to me who's playing cornerback opposite Marshawn Lattimore because, again, that's another loss. Janoris Jenkins, sorry, Jackrabbit. I think officially changed his name in the books to Jackrabbit Jenkins.

Like Ocho Cinco? This is what they had. Yes, all those years where we were like, oh, the Saints, the cap isn't real. Put it all on the credit card. Well, the bill came due and guys had to leave. And you're still a good team with a lot of really good players,

many of whom I didn't mention. Mario Davis is amazing, you know, whatever. But Marcus Williams is really good. But when you start letting that depth walk, suddenly you became, you become, your roster just becomes kind of fragile. So I think they have a high upside,

especially if Winston looks anything like he did in the preseason. I just think that upside can get knocked down pretty quickly with injuries. What do you think, Danny? So I, I like the Saints the most. I think it's the most logical and obvious. So Bill, I think you texted me this a while ago.

It's like, there's always a weird team that makes the playoff. Is there a world where the Panthers are the weird team that makes the playoffs this year? So that's why I brought it up because I think this could be the division that gives us the weird team. If we're going three playoff teams in the NFC West,

then the weird team has to be one of these NFC South teams. The Vikings, I guess, would be weird. I think it would be really, really weird if two NFC East teams made the playoffs. That would be like staggeringly bizarre to me. I think it's possible. It would have to be Dallas and Washington, right? And I just don't think, I don't think Dallas is a playoff team. I think it's possible. Washington, Dallas. It would have to be Dallas and Washington, right? And I just don't think, I don't think Dallas is a playoff team.

I don't see it. But the Giants and the Eagles, they're out. So it would have to be Dallas and Washington. I think it's more realistic that it's one of these NFC South teams. But yeah, the Carolina thing, they were 5-11 last year, but it didn't totally feel like a 5-11 team to me.

I felt like they were in games. They had some good showings against good teams. They have a couple really good players on both sides. And I thought they were well-coached. The games I watched, I was like, that team's well-coached. Kind of like overachievers

almost. It's most likely they're a year away from being a competitor or a contender. But I look at their defense. It's most likely they're a year away from being a competitor, a contender. But I look at their defenses very young, and they've got some guys that could really make a jump. Like Brian Burns was a favorite of mine coming out of the draft. He's looking really good so far.

He could have a superstar season this season. There's defensive player of the year kind of sleeper buzz with them. And then like Derek Brown, one of their top picks from last year. He's an exciting player. I don't know. They have a lot of young, exciting players. Jeremy Chin, JC Horn, Dante Jackson. If they can get it to come together, this defense could take a jump.

And I think that there's enough talent in this Panthers offense, especially that Sam Darnold, even if he'sold can, even if he's just like neutral, even if he's just average, right there at league average, this is a pretty good offense. And so, I don't know. I mean, league average for Sam Darnold

would be a massive, massive up, yeah. Yeah, even where he's been. It's plausible. I love the scheme. I love the skill players.

I do not love that offensive line and that remains a concern for me. Yeah. Other than like, Taylor Mowden. The entire left side of the line is an issue. On the other side of the football, I like the front seven. I actually really like Phil Snow, who's their defensive coordinator.

I think he's done a really nice job, but a lot of holes in that secondary. They're an interesting place because they're a rebuilding team in many ways, and they're very young uh but i think there is some pressure to compete now and also pressure this is one of the teams where as you're watching the all their rookie quarterbacks tear it up in the preseason this is one of the teams where the fan base does not feel great about that and i think oh i like that dude yeah i mean imagine if you're a panthers fan i mean j, J.C. Horn looks, he looked really good in the preseason when he did play.

He didn't play, you know, he's super sticky, super aggressive press man corner. But like, Justin Fields was there. Matt Jones was there. You know, so. That's tough.

And plus, even, how about this? Sertain was there. They might have taken the wrong guy. Right? They took Horn ahead of Sertain. And everybody is like, that guy's an absolute all-time,

you know, going to be a stud rookie and lock him in for Pro Bowls and all that stuff. One thing with the NFC South that I forgot to mention, they put the AFC East and the NFC East this year.

So you get the Jets and then you have all those NFC East teams. I think that's a benefit. You know, Maybe if two is not good, the Dolphins might not. The Dolphins, I think it's more realistic that they take a step back than a step

forward. We'll see. By the way, Danny, Brian Burns, 90-1 for Defensive Player of the Year. Get in. I don't know. You want to hop on FanDuel. That 90-1 seems high. Who's in front of him?

I mean, basically everybody in the league, but there's people like Shaq Barrett's ahead of him. Darius Leonard, Bobby Wagner, Derwin James, Khalil Mack. I think the Burns thing is like, I suspect those odds reflect the fact that people don't expect the defense to be very good. And it's hard to win these individual awards when your unit isn't that great. Chase Young's 11-1. He's got the fifth best odds. But I was thinking like if Washington... Washington's another team that like what we talked about before,

where they have the worst slate of quarterbacks you could probably have for an entire NFL season. And even if Fitzpatrick, as you said, is even if he's average, that's such a jump from what they had, you know? They get the Giants offensive line week one. I feel like they need to put like black bars on the television for that. Like the middle third of the television just needs to be covered up

because what Chase Young and Montez Sweat and Jonathan Allen are going to do to that line. We have the NFC have the AFC. Week two, pardon me. Sorry. Week two. Denver has them week one. Denver has them week one.

That's not going to be easy either. Jesus. AFC North. Who do you feel worse about, Pittsburgh or Baltimore? Danny. Well, I think that's kind of a weird question because i think a lot of people feel like the steelers suck right like i feel worse about the steelers i think baltimore's

gonna be really good so you make the case okay you guys don't think that baltimore's gonna be really no i do i do i i think you're going it sounds like oh i don't know if you think cleveland or balt are going to be better, but I assume you have the Bengals and the Steelers in the next tier. I have the Browns cruising in that division.

Cruising? Yeah. Like comfortably, like resting the guys in week 18 kind of a cruise. Wow. Like, hey, Odell,

we'll see you in a week. Like that kind of regular season for them. Don't send him on a cruise. I don't like the way this starts for the Ravens at all with all these skill guys out. And,

uh, you know, the, the Lamar COVID stuff is a real thing to me. Like, I think we have to take that stuff seriously. If you don't know any given week, if you're not going to have your quarterback or not,

I think that's talk about distractions. Remember when people thought Tim Tebow was a distraction. What about the distraction of, I have no idea if my quarterback's going to play this week for 17 straight weeks. I think that's going to matter. What do you think? I think, I just,

I think that's a good point. I'm not really, I hadn't really been thinking of it that way. I just, I'm a, I'm a believer still in Lamar. I think that the things that they can do offensively, like we're getting so excited about what the 49ers can do on offense.

It's like, this is what the Ravens do. Like, this is what they've been doing. They've had like a top five offense DVOA every time that Lamar has been the starter or whatever. I'm not, I'm just off the top of my head.

I'm not sure that's a hundred percent sure, but like, feels right. They've had like extremely efficient, extremely explosive. Um, the, the things he can do.

And Shanahan has even said this in the past, it's a sound scheme. And go ahead and try and stop it because we got Lamar Jackson who has more rushing yards over expectation than any player in the NFL. He's just so special as a runner that even if he's average or below average as a passer, it doesn't matter because he can just do so many different things with the offense. It makes them so difficult to defend. So that's kind of how I am with,

with Lamar. I'm just still a Lamar believer. I'm still a believer in this offense, even with all the injuries on, um, in the receiving core, like that's definitely a concern, but like,

that's never been their game anyway. Um, and I think Gus Edwards is a good running back and they can kind of like carry on even without JK Dobbins. So, um, I think it's clearly their preseason

has not gone ideally. And I think that the COVID thing is a concern. But I don't know. It's the Ravens. I think they're still going to be like 11 win, 12 win team. Mina, let me sketch this out for you.

Okay. At Raiders, Monday night, week one. W. Let me walk you through the alternate universe of that. Okay. All right.

They're like five-point favorites. Oh, Vegas. Oh, this will be easy. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, so maybe Gus Edwards and a bunch of D-plus receivers down 10 points in the first half. Uh-oh. They blow that game.

Chiefs, Sunday night, week two. Yeah. Uh-oh, week two. Uh-oh. Colts, Monday night, week five. They're at Denver. They play the Chargers at home. They're at the Dolphins on Thursday night, week 10. And then they finish home Browns, at Steelers, at Browns, home Packers, at Bengals, home Rams, home Steelers. I think their schedule is hard. And if they have, if they pass an injury point, which they're kind of heading toward, if this gets any worse for them, combined with like, you know, Lamar,

like do you trust Lamar to play 17 games with the style that they have? I'd be really nervous about that. I mean, he's done it. So I know he has, but I just, the running quarterbacks make me nervous. They do. I don't know.

Same thing. I don't like the guys. Josh Allen's another one. I don't like the guys that are just taking hits, hits, hits. Yeah. Makes me nervous. I think my concerns with Baltimore, first of all, the COVID thing is totally legitimate and real.

I was thinking about that watching Carson Wentz's press conference today because there was a moment... I'm not up to date on his exact status, but Seattle's playing the Colts week one, and let me tell you, the group chat has been popping about COVID-19. But anyways, a lot of things

that should not be shared with Puck. At a point, I was like, is he going to play? Is he available? Because if you're unvaccinated... Talking about Wentz, if you're unvaccinated, talking about Wentz, if you're unvaccinated and you test positive, you can miss 10 days. So it is real. Any of these dudes who are not vaccinated are absolutely putting their availability at risk

in a huge way. Because if you are vaccinated, you can get it back in very quickly with two negative tests, 24 hours, boom. So I think that's real. My concerns with Baltimore are the health of the wide receiver is already, the wide receiving group has been an issue with Rashad Bateman, who was their first round draft pick. Watkins is practicing again. That's an issue. I think the Dobbins thing is

fine. I like Edwards a lot. Danny mentioned him. I think he's a really talented runner. He's very complete. But on the other side of the ball, the pass rush, I would say, is something we really take for granted with Martindale and his, you know, aggressive, blitz-heavy, very schemed-up pressure. But they're really counting on, like, Odafe Owe, who's their first-round draft pick, to replace a production of, say, like,

a Matt Judon, who you have seen tear it up in the preseason in New England. I love him. That concerns me a little. What are his DPOIs? And all the Ravens fans in my life read Mallory Rubin. We love him. That concerns me a little. What are his DPOIs? And all the Ravens fans in my life, Reed, Mallory, Ruben, were like, no, we're fine.

We're fine. We can replace him. We're fine. Because the Ravens do this whole thing where it's like, oh, my arm's been cut off. It just regenerates because we're bionic.

It's like, at some point, you're not fine. At some point, it sucks to just lose guys. You saw that in New England last year. Yeah. In the defense. We weren't fine after a while. Not fine. We didn't draft well for a couple of years and suddenly we were

not fine and we didn't have enough good players. So I think those are, those concerns are the ones I have about Baltimore. Can I give you another reason with Baltimore to be nervous about them? Yes. I don't know. You, you might not know this. Okay. Mallory is going to have a podcast on the ringer NFL show on Thursdays with Nora Princey. Wow. As a, as just an experiment, a human experiment. If the Raven season starts out in any sort of weird way and Mallory has to talk about football every Thursday, just keep an eye on that one. It feels like that could be a good hook for the early weeks of the pod. 0-2 heading into at Detroit.

Oh my God. People love misery. So I feel like as your employer, you should actually be, and it sounds like you are, rooting against Baltimore because the content. Like I feel bad for Mallory,

but this is tremendous content. Tremendous content. And by the way, I don't need any excuse to root against Baltimore. I think that's my least favorite franchise right now. Bill, does it make you worried?

From a Pat standpoint. Does it make you worried that they have... One of our rivals. The Baltimore Ravens are, according to Football Outsiders projections, second.

They're projected at 10.6 wins, which is second. I saw that. And the Pats are fifth, right? The Pats are fifth, Seahawks sixth, and then San Francisco seventh. Who's the biggest surprise in the top 10 out of those projections?

Wasn't there somebody weird in there around 8-9? Green Bay, New Orleans, Dallas, maybe. New Orleans is being up there. Given all the players they've lost, and the uncertainty at quarterback, it's pretty impressive. I don't understand how anyone can watch Hard Knocks and think Dallas is going to win 10 games.

What just an absolute shit show that team is. How can you watch that and be like, we're good, man. We're everybody's in the right hands. This is a smooth machine. Have you ever watched Hard Knocks and felt better about a team, though? The only thing,

my only takeaway was just C.D. Lamb looked incredible. C.D. Lamb montage they ran was the greatest montage I think I've ever watched other than Randy Moss footage from the late 90s

that's on YouTube where you just watch that and you're like, oh, Randy Moss. This is the case for Dallas. Like, we were in, to use as the ranking system we used for the NFC West,

at wide receiver, they have a 1A, 1B, and a 1C, in my opinion. And they're playing the openers, Tampa, right? Tampa's, I'm sure, favored by at least a touchdown. I don't have it in front of me. But if I'm Dallas, I'm throwing it in every play. I'm having three wide receivers on the field all the time, and I'm going after Sean Murphy bunting with CeeDee Lamb

because that is the one area where you have, I think, an advantage over every opponent on your schedule is your wide receivers. Yeah, I was looking at that as a possible. There's a couple of good upset possibilities in week one because there's Browns, Chiefs. There's a couple where they're like touchdown underdogs where you just know one of them is going to win.

And I'm trying to figure out which one. And all of them look grim on paper. That's why they're seven point underdogs where you just know one of them is going to win. And I'm trying to figure out which one. And all of them look grim on paper. That's why they're seven point underdogs. But it's like, what's, what's that week one. It's always sloppy. You know, it's disjointed. And then that's like where you get like the 80 yard touchdown. All of a sudden you're up 10, three, and the other team doesn't know what happened. I, uh, I feel like Pittsburgh and Dallas are similar to me in a weird way because the reason that I'm not writing off Dallas completely is just because of those skill guys, the receivers you mentioned in Zeke.

I don't know what's, I don't know if Dak is that if that's a two year injury, what's going to happen with them. I, I think there's a high ceiling, high floor of them. Pittsburgh, you look at Najee Harris,

which everybody's just going nuts about, uh, and their receivers. Now they have no offensive line, but these actual just going nuts about. And their receivers, now they have no offensive line, but these actual skill guys are ridiculous. And that's why I can't write them off yet. Cause I do think they're going to be, you know, they're going to have, especially if Ben can somehow stay, he lost weight. Congrats, Ben. Way to lose 15 pounds as a professional athlete. But if he can, you know,

what did he throw for almost 5,200 yards two years ago? Why are you lowering your eyebrow, Mimino? No, I'm not. I am not lowering my eyebrow. That was an eyebrow low. You lowered your eyebrow. Well, it shows that he threw for that much. Yeah, that's fair.

I get enough hate from Steelers fans. I don't want to draw any more ire. I will say the front seven should still be very good. Yes. I'm not worried about the loss of Bud Dupree. They all look good, frankly, up front.

Secondary, some concerns. But to me, it really, on offense, just comes down to scheme in a big way. The new offensive coordinator, Matt Canada, I'll talk about sort of what that brings in terms of all the nerd stuff Danny alluded to. And I think I want to see, okay, what does Ben look like in this offense?

And can they do things to get some of those playmakers in space? Who was the one on one of our podcasts? I want to say it was Ben Solak, but I can't remember. But somebody was talking about how they're going to have Ben over center more, less shotgun. Yeah, he was over center in the preseason.

The new offensive trend is over center versus shotgun. Do you remember that, Danny? Does this strike a bell with you? Somebody was talking about it. Yeah, well, I don't remember exactly what you're talking about, but Ben has been, like,

by far the most against running play action of any quarterback in the NFL over the last, like, five years. It's like play action is a cheat code, right? because it's like the defense you get the defense to like cheat a little bit one way and then it just opens everything up it's like such a brilliant thing to do and that's why so many coaches are adopting it more and more every year the play action rate has gone up in the NFL and I think it's going to go up a lot again this year Pittsburgh except for Pittsburgh who doesn't like her Pittsburgh like 8% of the time.

Yeah. And all these things are things that can help the aforementioned struggling offensive line. Like the motion can help the run game. Play action can buy them a little bit of time. The question is just kind of, okay, are you going to do it? Right. The offensive line thing, in some cases, I just write the team off completely. Because I like the Jags as a possible sleeper like a month ago.

And then I saw them try to block. I'm like, I'm out. I'm just out. They can't block. Yeah. And you watch the Giants last week. The Patriots destroyed the Giants offensive line. It's like, they're not fixing that.

They're not going to be able to block, period. And I think the Bears are like that too. I don't think the Bears are going to be able to block. The Steelers, I'm not sure of. They're moving guys around. They're really obviously well-coached. They have the infrastructure, so they always can kind of stumble into,

we just found this guy, and this guy in our practice squad, and now he's our right tackle, and he's doing really well. So I don't want to write them off, but I think that could sink them too. That to me is what I'm watching. That first game week one, I want to see like, can they fucking block?

Yeah. I mean, there's guys like Kevin Dotson who they are high on, for example, but I just kind of want to see the unit work together. By the way, sneaky offensive line to keep your eye on? Green Bay. I don't think we're talking about the NFC North, but I was trying to figure out who's

starting on the offensive line the other day when the Bakhtiari news dropped. Elton Jenkins is playing left tackle. What? He's really good, but there could be two rookies starting on that line. It's something we kind of take for granted. It's like you were saying about Pittsburgh. We take for granted.

Oh, it's Green Bay. They're going to be awesome. Every year, they're awesome on their offensive line, but I want to see it. Like every year, they're awesome on their offensive line. But I kind of, I want to see it. Chiefs too. Chiefs as well? Chiefs are starting three rookies,

I believe. Due to my internet sleuthing, because I like researching this stuff, it actually seems like the Chiefs are super fired up about how their five guys have meshed.

Yeah. I have it. I'll do, now when we're done with this pot, I'm going to do the search to Packers because I've been looking for any excuse for them not to win the NFC North and I haven't, I'll do now when we're done with this pot, I'm going to do the search to Packers. Cause I've been looking for any excuse for them not to win the NFC North. And I haven't found it

because you know how this goes every year. There's five or six new playoff teams. It's just how it goes. It's not, we're not running it back with the 12 way. Now there's some that aren't going to make it like the bears are out. There's a couple of that just aren't going to make it. But in general, there's always at least one team where we like, Oh, the Ravens they're in. And then all of a sudden it's like, Oh wow, the Ravens aren't going to make it. But in general, there's always at least one team where we're like, oh, the Ravens, they're in. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, wow, the Ravens are going to be in this year. We always have it. So, you know, could it be the Packers?

I don't know. I don't love the Vikings is the problem. And it's not going to be the other two teams. We haven't seen the Packers line. That's the other thing. With the Chiefs, we've actually, because Andy Reid like plays Patrick Mahomes for entire quarters in the preseason,

we got to see some of the newcomers on the offensive line. LaFleur does not. So I only found out about Jenkins playing left tackle from Packers beat reporters who were there. Jesus. And they are confident about it. And I certainly trust their assessment more than mine. But yeah, it's going to be interesting.

It was interesting the veteran coaches handled the way some of them handled the preseason where they're like, we don't get to hit anybody ever. We're going to use these preseason games and actually like use them because the Patriots were like that. They really played guys. They wanted to see what they have. All right.

We're going to take one more break. When we come back, I'm going to let you guys talk about the Patriots for two minutes and then we'll do the MVP. All right. The Patriots. Basically, even odds to make the playoffs now. There's been some Mac Jones

offensive rookie of the year movement on FanDuel. Really? There's been some Belichick coach of the year movement, frankly. He's up to 14 to one. Love that. Division odds have not budged at plus 250. People still think Buffalo is taking that division. Mina, your Mac Jones thoughts.

I thought he looked awesome in the preseason. I thought he looked like this. Actually, I think all the rookie quarterbacks kind of look like they did in college in a funny way or showed the traits that you liked about all five of them in college. And I thought Mac, the accuracy, decision making, some of the throws he made. It was in the week three game probably was my favorite throw was the seam route to it was a guy who I don't think is on the pads anymore. The tight end starts in the Z. Anyways, I was really impressed. I also think, though,

he was not tested in the way that he will be week one by Miami. And you saw in week three some of the challenge. He took a few sacks, Bill. I assume you watched all three of the games. He held the ball a couple times. He held the ball longer than he did the first two weeks.

He didn't have guys that were open, so I think he was confused. He had a couple guys that were open. After playing with Jalen Waddle last year. That'll do it. And also, I think the Giants defense fooled him a little bit. And if you think they're good, but so are the Miami Dolphins.

So I think it was the right move to start him. I think he looks great, but I think there's going to be unanticipated struggles. I think that, by the way, about all the rookie quarterbacks, I think all of them are going to face challenges that we didn't see in the preseason. But I really like what I saw. Can I defend my new son, Mac Jones, for a second?

I think I just, I was just so nice. What is there to defend? She said awesome. They played the Giants in these scrimmages and he lit them up the first day. And then by the time they played the preseason game, it was like the fourth time they played the Giants. Okay.

So I was like, I go back to that first Giants intra-squad scrimmage. He was like 33 for 39. No, no, I'm with you. I like him a lot. I like him a lot. I do too. I'm with you about the rookie QBs.

It's so weird that we might've gone five for five, Danny. I don't think any of these guys are going to be a bust. I actually think all of these guys are going to make it in some way, right? Yeah, I actually, yeah. It's like, I almost feel like I underrated all of them. It's instead of like overrating all of them. I'm like, wow, I should have been higher on all of these guys, especially Mac Jones. There was a big narrative.

Like he just, you know, like he's got like that Tom Brady, like combine picture, like just like not athletic looking body. And it's like, I think a lot of people just really bought into that. Me included. Like I just bought into it too much. He's really good. Like he's just a freaking quarterback.

Um, and I think that's going to show up, but it's like what Mina said, all the, all the pluses and minuses have been pretty apparent for each guy and each scouting report for each guy, you know, um,

like fields is holding onto the ball a little bit too long, but has incredible athleticism, incredible arm, all that stuff. You know, Zach Wilson has shown off his ability to just whip the ball downfield, like really good arm, good decision-making, all that stuff.

I could go on, but like all these guys have looked exactly pretty much like I think the scouting reports told us they'd look. So that's exciting because I think, you know, five new good quarterbacks in the NFL, like that's awesome. I was thinking about what an awesome situation this is for Mac Jones, the team he's coming to with the coaches he has. But then you think like they have a really good offensive line this year.

Yes. It's really, really good. I would say it's one of the five best. Is it as good as Alabama? Maybe not. Relatively, though. Shade below. They have one of the deepest best groups of running backs I think

anybody has. They're really going to be able to run the ball. They actually have tight ends who can catch. They have one deep threat who can at least extend the field. I just think it's going to be an easy team to play quarterback for compared to some of the other options rookies usually have. And it's funny because a lot of this, it's so weird. They're totally different.

But a lot of this reminds me of Russell. What was that? 10 years ago, 2011, 2012, his first year in Seattle. When they had the right team, but they didn't have a quarterback. And then they thought it was going to be, wasn't it Matt Flynn? They just paid Matt Flynn. $10 million. Yeah. And I remember I picked Seattle to make the Superbowl that year in my column because I was reading all the Russell Wilson things. And the quotes were a lot like the Mac Jones stuff from the teammates, from the coaches, where it was like, this guy has it, this guy's special. Like, yeah, it's great.

We can't keep him off the field. And it was similar. Like, Seattle didn't make the Super Bowl that year, but he came in as such an awesome situation that year that it was like the best thing that could have happened to Russell Wilson, but also the best thing that happened to the Seahawks. I don't know if it's going to play out that way,

but I think that's, you don't see that with rookie QBs. It's like the NBA where star rookies don't come into good situations. Yeah. Yeah. Situation is everything. I mean, and then what I'm about to say is going to be perceived as Mac Jones criticism. And it's not, if he was in Chicago, he would not be having this conversation. He'd probably be dead. Like literally dead. So he would be miserable. And, but it's perfect fit. And, and, you know, I think the arcs of these guys' careers

are really going to sort of be dependent on where they ended up. And, like, I think Trey Lance is in an incredible situation and is the perfect situation for him. The other three, I'm not so sure about. I think Zach Wilson is the one who, to me, actually, has looked the most... He's surpassed my expectations.

Transcendent. Frankly. Yeah, well, I mean, he's just... What he's done, not even outside of structure, which is where he was special in college, but the ability to make all of the throws

over the middle of the field. I didn't know if he would be able to do that. He has done it against backups. And that's my only caveat for myself is like, okay, let's see this in real time. But I think for him, ending up with Mike LaFleur and some of the wider seeders they have and what

should be an improving offensive line, he could be pretty special too. I wanted him to suck for the comedy because I love making fun of Jets fans. He's got a freaking bazooka and he can throw it from different angles and it's just clear he's actually not going to be a bust.

I'm disappointed. I don't think any of them are. I want to say this, though. I want to add to this discussion that the preseason is a different animal than the regular season. So going back to the Russell Wilson thing, Bill, because I think that's a great point. When he came in, I remember this very vividly. Rookie camp. The Seahawks hold a rookie camp where they invite all all the rookies there's like 50 guys that are never going

to make any roster he came in and he basically ran the whole camp by himself he like knew the playbook already and the seahawks were like holy shit right this guy took over and this is like what you're hearing about mac jones like he's just got that it factor or whatever um and Russell Wilson go back to his rookie preseason was just incredible like he was juking guys out of their like socks just lighten it up and then he started out pretty slow to be honest like in the beginning of the season it was kind of ugly there was I think I mean correct me if I'm wrong there was talk about benching him in the first half of the season. And then the second half of the season, he took over. I think the Patriots game was

the one. Well, the Bears game early. This is all the 2012. Danny and I relive these moments all the time. Was that the Richard Sherman-Tonning Brady game? Yes, the Hugh Adbro game with Russell Wilson. I think let's relive it. Was it Sidney? Sidney Rice caught the touchdown in the end zone. In the end zone, and we were worried that he was hurt or something.

I almost got in a fight after watching that game. I was in Greenpoint at a bar. And there were a bunch of Patriots fans. And they were mad. They were mad bros. But there were a couple performances early on. He didn't do like a ton. There were a lot of games where he wasn't asked to throw it a lot.

But there was that game and the Bears game. Which I think also I did with Sidney Rice. Touchdown lot of games where he wasn't asked to throw it a lot and but there was that game in the bears game which i think also i did with cindy rice touchdown the one where you yeah and where we were like okay like this is it that was his well that was his i think arrival moment he had yeah like he retired um what's his sorry the hall of fame linebacker erlacher like the bears game yeah yeah. Yeah, this Bears game. They debuted the read option package. It was just like the Bears had never seen this before in their lives. Was the Patriots game in Foxborough? Am I remembering that correctly?

It was earlier in the season. It was in the first half of the season. We were outraged at Richard Sherman, Darren Blaski, and Tom Brady. I didn't like that at all. I want to travel back in time and tell 2012 Danny and Mina that we would get to talk about this on Bill Simmons' podcast to his face.

And we lived that game. I was very upset. Yeah, that was week six. 24, 23. So you're right. So week seven, you scored six points. You had... Basically, you weren't scoring until week eight.

Then all of a sudden, it took off. You're in the twenties. So the point is pump your brakes. If these guys have some bad games early on in the season, because that's going to happen. I'm almost sure, but like everything we've seen, I think it is very,

very positive for these guys long-term. How many cases? Cause Roethlisberger on Pittsburgh is an obvious one. Wilson, that first Seattle year where you almost made the NFC championship game. Lost to Atlanta. You really could have. That was a brutal loss.

Should have. Horrible, horrible comeback. And then Mack Jones has a chance, I think, to be a quarterback on a good playoff team. But for the most part, this doesn't happen. Right. Because I can't even really remember any other examples from this century of like rookies coming in

and shepherding a 10-6, 11-5 team that was actually built to be. I think the Pats are going to be really good. I keep saying it. I am more than willing to admit when my team's not good,

I think this team has a lot of talent. I think they can do a lot of things on both sides of the ball. And even stuff like our kick returners and stuff that they just didn't, that fell through the cracks the last few years. Can I ask you, Bill, for some fantasy advice related to the Patriots?

Yeah, let's hear it. So I'm in a league with Danny Kelly. Oh, God. It's a dynasty league. It's me and all of Danny's high school friends. Yep. Our buddy Nate Tice is in it too. I won the first year.

It was a major... Ancient. Ancient. Danny's never won. It's not a big deal. It's not like he has a fantasy show or anything like that. Who beat you in the playoffs last year, Mina?

I don't remember. Danny's never won? He's never won. He's so mad at me right now. It's like the Mariners. I took you down in the playoffs last year and then freaking Alvin

Kamara, six touchdown game. So I have Jacoby Myers. I have Jacoby Myers in this league. And I feel proud. It's a very, very deep league. It's huge rosters. It's a dynasty league. We have major no-name. I felt like he was a real deep pool for me.

And I feel like I nurtured him like a little, you know, like a baby bird. And now he's about to fly. Like a rescue dog. I'm getting offers for him. And I feel I'm so, and the offers are enticing. I don't, it's Miles Sanders might be involved and a pick. But I love Kobe. And I feel like him and Mac Jones

could be special. What do you think? Danny asked me this on the Fantasy Pod. I worry with the Pats, they're going to have like six guys who are between

38 and 55 catches. That would be my fear. I, watching last year, I felt like he was open all year. And who was the other receiver we had who's not on the team anymore? I'm blanking.

God bless, Susan. Not Dorsett. Oh, Bird. Demir Bird. He was open too, a lot. But Cam was, you know, the ball was flying all over the place. But we did have, those guys were open. It wasn't like they were blanketed. It wasn't like some other years.

But I think he's going to be the third down guy. But I do think Jono Smith kind of steps into him a little bit. I think they're going to have two tight ends on the field like more than any team in the NFL easily. Well, I hope one of them is Hunter Henry.

If you gave me 11 games for him right now, I'd probably take it. Right? So you're saying, is that a yes or a no? I would trade for Miles Sanders. I actually, I think you should trade Jacoby Myers for Miles Sanders in a pick. I would vote for that. I hope the person in our league isn't listening. Well, we're not putting it up this till tonight. You have like nine, 10 hours. All right. MVP on FanDuel. Mahomes is five to one.

Rodgers 10 to one. Brady 12 to one. Josh Allen, 13 to one. Prescott 17 to one. I don't see that one at all. Lamar 17 to one. Stafford 17 to one. Your guy Russ is 20 to one. Herbert 21. Kyler's 23 to one. Then it gets silly. There's really no other great options unless you want to go running back who never went. But Derrick Henry is 50 to one. it's just my guy mac is 75 i mailed all these to you which one jumped out which one did you like i liked josh allen i think the obvious one is josh allen so i look back at the last like 10 years of mvp awards and it's nine quarterbacks and adrian peterson and every quarterback has won at least 12 games.

Right. At least 12 and 4, 13 and 3. Matt Ryan won 11 in 2016. And I am saying the quarterbacks won, but you know what I mean. Yeah. These teams need to be elite,

I think. And the quarterback has to be elite leading them. I think that the Bills could finish with like 13 wins. It's just the most obvious one to me. Um, that really stood out.

I think Dak has a good chance, but like, do you see the Cowboys winning 13 games? No. Um, Stafford, maybe in the Rams, if they really go on a run and if they can stay healthy is a good one.

But I would say Josh Allen is by far the most obvious one there. Do you like Josh Allen at 11-1 to win the MVP? What was it, 13-1 or 11-1? 13. 13, yeah. Or do you like Buffalo for best regular season record at 10-1? I think I like Josh Allen more. Okay, I do too.

Did you watch their last preseason game, Bill? Yeah, I think they're going to be ridiculous. Yeah. The big nitpick for them is like well their running backs aren't that great it's like okay cool

who cares yeah ah their defense not sure it's like alright they're going to score every time they have the ball like an absolute

they went back to back on pass rushers which is kind of interesting and Rousseau looks like a monster yeah I mean they check all the boxes

for the team that got the taste that makes the jump. That's why I like Cleveland, too. I think Cleveland's going to be really good. I don't know if their division's going to be as much of a gauntlet as people think, but I think Buffalo is the one seed in that.

I would have them won over Kansas City. Yeah, I would. Really? I would. They're more complete. Yeah, they're more balanced. Did you also watch Patrick Mahomes' last game in the preseason? Because, holy. Yeah. My guess with Buffalo is they would care more about being a one seed.

Whereas KC is more like, eh, we got Patrick Mahomes. We're good. We'll see. We'll see in January. We don't care where the game is. Generally. I kind of like Stafford and Wilson's values values there by the way i think they both also mvp is like a very narrativey award yes and i think both of those guys have narratives on their

side stafford with the you know new team makeover this is his chance wilson with the never got the vote story and all that oh my god i know i'm not i don't know i'm not engaging in it i'm just repeating it so i think those guys both should lead pretty high powered offenses. This is I mean, this is the problem. Too many podcasts, too many afternoon talk shows when we have those narratives and the people get mad. But how can LeBron James not have won the MVP since 2013? And it's just like, all right, let's go through the seasons.

Tell me which one he should have won. Like nobody wants to actually do the exercise or the work. But the same thing with Wilson. It seems weird that he's never won the MVP. But if you go through all the seasons. Right. He didn't have the season. So what are you going to do?

But maybe it'll be this year. Who knows? All right, Mina, what's your wackiest prediction before we go? Your wackiest prediction for 2021. My wackiest prediction. Apparently that the Ravens are going to be really good. I didn't realize.

That was crazy. That was wacky, dude. Yeah, you went nuts on that. Well, I still, I, okay, here, I think this is genuinely wacky. I think Washington and Dallas could both be playoff teams. That's a really good one. Is that a good one? Yeah, that's good.

I think that two NFC East teams is two. And if the division sucks, but I think the fact that the I think the rest of the division they'll have no problem with. And I think Dallas's offense is that good. I think Washington's defense is that good. And all they need is average play on the other side of the football. And I think I definitely think they Washington get it out of Fitzpatrick. We don't have to get into that. But Dallas defense a little bit sketchier, but I think that's a top five offense in the NFL. If Parsons turns out to be a stud

immediately, he did look good. He looks good. Problem is the rest of the defense, but he looks good. You figure for them both to make the playoffs, I think they would both have to go 4-0 against the Giants-Eagles combo. And then after that, you just need six more wins, basically. You'd have to go 4-0 against the Giants-Eagles combo. And then after that, you just need six more wins, basically.

You'd have to go six and six and seven? I can't even... I'm really impressed that you've been throwing around these numbers this far. The 17 game is really confusing. I've just been not... I've been refusing... Wrapping my mind around the idea that a nine-team win is...

a nine-win team, rather, is not good is just mind fucking me. Yeah. Cause when, when you look at the player props and it's like, Justin Herbert will throw for 5,000 yards. It's like, what? And then you think like, Oh, that's 17 games. Yeah. All the records are going to be broken. Yeah. That's 290 yards a game. It's, you know, not completely unrealistic. Danny, what's your wackiest prediction? Oh man. So I was just thinking about what you guys were talking.

I think the weirdest thing and the most improbable thing that I could think of is that Jalen hurts is going to lead the Eagles to the playoffs. Just with like, so the most, the most realistic, ridiculous thing that could happen this season is the Eagles making the playoffs on the back of Jalen Hurts. Yeah.

It's not bad. They do have nice skill guys. I like that. And the offensive line is back. I think, yeah, number one, their offensive line was totally banged up. They were just a complete cluster last year. Everything that could have gone wrong did.

I think their offensive line has gotten more healthy. They've got some pretty intriguing skill players. I think Devontae Smith is going to be really good as a rookie. I think Jalen Hurts is

a unique prospect in the sense that he's like a running back at quarterback. He is like Kyler Murray, but with 20 extra pounds or whatever. He might not be as accurate. He's not as talented as a passer, but I think that they can do some interesting things on offense if they embrace what he is and who he is.

And I was unsure that was going to be the case because they waited until literally yesterday to actually call him their starter. But I don't know. If we're talking about wacky things, I can't just go straight down the fairway on this one. Danny, can I take that? Can I take that wacky take and bring it into my take kitchen

and put some spices on it and send it back to you with this? Yeah. Even wackier. The Eagles make the playoffs, but it's with Gardner Minshew. Oh, no, don't do,

no. I'm just saying the, the realistically wacky. That's not like impossible. How did I not see that coming? I, when you were talking about the spice, I was like,

Ooh, what could it be? First six games gets hurt, something happens, and then our guy Gardner comes in, just lights it up, goes eight and two down the stretch. You can't quit him. I can't. I just can't believe they didn't even trade a draft pick for him.

It was like a conditional sixth. He has to hit these. That reflects the NFL draft pick for him. It was like a conditional sixth. He has to like hit these. How? That reflects the NFL's perception of him. But that's insane. He was decent the last two years. Like for the situation he was in. Listen, I'm on Minshew Island.

It's super cheap here. We don't have electricity. I have a roof over my head. There's nobody else here. But I'm happy to have a place here. I still believe in you. I have a roof over my head. There's nobody else here, but I'm happy to have a place here. I still believe in you, Gardner Michoud. Love it. Mina, anything to plug other than your pod that I've never been

invited on? It's the Mina Kime show featuring Lenny. Open invitation. And yeah, Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays, NFL Live. Now, Danny, we can read you on TheRinger.com. You have some NFL content, but The Ringer Fantasy Show,

which is a very good podcast. You guys are going to be cranking four times a week this year. Yeah. Exciting stuff. We're going to be doing some green rooms too. Yeah. Check out The Ringer Fantasy Football Draft Guide.

Oh, yeah. Check that out too. I have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, three drafts in a row. Three different days. My wife is so happy. So delighted to hear. Can I come on the show when I win our league again? Yeah. If, if. It's a conditional invite. Yes, Danny. Of course. Of course. Well, now I'm rooting for Danny. It's good content. It's good content.

I'm rooting for Danny to win his league and I'm rooting for the Ravens to go five and 12. Those are the two things I'm going to refer that are above Patriots. Mina, it was great to see you. Danny, it was great to see you as well. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Peyton Manning. Thanks to Danny Kelly and Mina Kimes. Don't forget about the full go launching

probably 10 days or so. Ringer Fight Night launching on Friday. Sign up now. Be ready for Ariel and Chuck and Pizzi. And then the Ringer Gambling Show, which launches on, I think, Monday next week with Sharp and Verno. You can listen to that one as well. And then the rewatchables. I did have an assignment for you for Labor Day. Chris Ryan and I, as I told you, we're doing the Calderon's Return two-part episode, which is basically the fourth and fifth episodes of Miami Vice.

So if you want to really fully enjoy it, I would recommend watching the pilot and then watching Calderon's Return part one and two. It's three hours of your life. There's no football this weekend. If you don't like it, your money back, even though it's free.

And I think you'll enjoy it. So there you go. This podcast is produced by Kyle Creighton. I will see you on Sunday night. Guess the lines. I think, is this season 16? Season 15? God, so many guess the line seasons,

but we're doing it Sunday night, me and Sal. I will see you then. Enjoy the weekend. I don't have I don't have I don't have