The Bill Simmons Podcast - Philly's Alive, 'SNL' in Limbo, Childish Gambino vs. Kanye, and the NHL's Strangest Spring With Alison Herman, Katie Baker, and Lindsay Zoladz | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 362)

Episode Date: May 8, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons weighs in on Game 4 of Celtics-76ers and LeBron James's merciless play against the Raptors (3:15). Then Bill is joined by Ringer TV critic Alison Herman to talk about 'SNL,' its historic run, its recent seasons, and where it could go from here (21:35). Next he connects with staff writer Katie Baker to talk about the NHL playoffs, the Capitals beating the Penguins, the legacy of Alex Ovechkin, and the unlikelihood of a new expansion team taking a shot at the Stanley Cup (54:25). Finally he calls music critic Lindsay Zoladz to discuss Donald Glover's ascension to creative leader, Kanye West's legacy vs. his recent behavior, and more (116:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the Ringer podcast network brought to you by ZipRecruiter. I wish we had ZipRecruiter last night in Philadelphia. They could have found better refs than the three we had. 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within a day. They're the best at distributing your job to the best boards, identifying the right people, inviting them to apply. My listeners can try it for free at Z ziprecruiter.com slash BS.

Meanwhile, SeatGeek, the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more for $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase on any game or sporting event for NBA, NHL, baseball, whatever you know to do. Use promo code BS. I made nephew Kyle sign up this weekend and sent him my LAFC season tickets. And he proceeded to get over-served in the VIP club. I think he had a good time though. Download the SeatGeek app or go right to SeatGeek.com.

Don't forget to check out TheRinger.com. Danny Chow with a really good piece about the Raptors. Danny likes when teams fail for some reason. And that's what he wrote about. One of our strangest and most talented employees. He loves when teams don't reach their potential. It's a very good piece. Brian Curtis also wrote about the weirdest NBA book of the 90s. It's called Black Planet by David Shields. I did not like the book. I was glad I read it, but I disliked it. And it's interesting. I respected it. I remembered it. And it was interesting to read Brian's case for how it

kind of foreshadowed where internet basketball writing was going to a large degree. Anyway, check that out. I hope you subscribe to The Dave Chang Show. We've had two episodes. He has one this week. I'm not on the one this week. He did a celebrity interview. So stay tuned for that. Subscribe now. Also subscribe to House of Carbs, our food show with expert Joe House. Kyle, who does House have this week?

House has somebody from GQ talking about the 10 best new restaurants in America. Oh, somebody from GQ. That's Brett best new restaurants in America. Somebody from GQ. It's Brett Martin. He's a good writer. Excellent. That's happening as well. Coming up, we have a bunch of ringer people are coming on. Lindsay Zoladz and I are going to talk about Kanye

versus Donald Glover and a torch passing that might be in the works. Allison Herman and I are going to talk about Saturday Night Live and just one of the weirder but more fascinating seasons that they've had for better and worse. And then Katie Bakes, our old friend from the Grantland days, she's on The Ringer as well.

She has the most kids of any Ringer staff other than myself. She's going to give us the hockey playoffs update of the most bizarre hockey playoffs that we've had in a long time. Coming up, we're going to hit Pearl Jam, then I'm going to talk about the basketball playoffs for a little bit. Here we go. All right, I am in Boston, Massachusetts, taping this Tuesday afternoon. It is May 8th. That was the day when I looked at it and I said, wait a second, it's May 8th.

That's something. That means something. Why is that a day? And then I realized it was three years ago and I left ESPN. And actually, the whole story of it was a little more complicated than that. But we had hit a point when I knew I wasn't coming back. They knew I wasn't coming back. It was getting increasingly testy behind the scenes. And then I woke up on the morning of May 8th. And after a few things had happened the night before, some of which I don't

know if have ever come out. And Dave Jacoby emailed me and was like, what's this? And it was a tweet from a media reporter that ESPN had decided not to renew my contract, which was expiring at the end of September. And that's how I found out that 15, 14 years ESPN, I can't remember how long that it was officially coming to an end. Not really, not really like having a retirement ceremony. On the one hand, I was kind of relieved that now I could start planning whatever was next. But on the other hand, it was just kind of a shitty day.

And then it became a good day because all these people reached out and you realize like, oh yeah, there's lots of things that could happen now. But still, the Grantland office was 15 minutes from my house and all these people I cared about were there and I couldn't go over and say goodbye to them and stuff like that. So it was a complicated day. And three years later, I'm in Boston, the sun's shining, the Celtics are still alive. We have 90 people here at the ringer. Things are going great. And it's just weird. It feels like it was 15 years ago, but it was actually three. Or it feels like it was six weeks ago. I don't know. Complicated day, May 8th. Fortunately, the Celtics aren't playing

tonight because I don't know what would happen. but right now I'm in Boston, Massachusetts. It's beautiful. It's sunny here. I was in Philadelphia last night, game four, Sixers-Celtics. Crowd was tense. Crowd was happy. Crowd was raucous. Crowd was euphoric at times. Crowd freaked out in the fourth quarter when it looked like the Sixers might lose their lead. And most of all, the crowd was just celebrating the heroics of TJ McConnell, who they had wanted to play for the entire series. If you missed it, I went on the Ringer NBA show and talked about the confetti game on Sunday night and just how crazy that was, how Philly season basically flipped because Marco Bellinelli was eight inches over the three-point line, and then the guy shoots the confetti thing early.

And from that point on, you knew the Sixers were doomed. I don't think that's ever worked out in the history of sports when something dumb like that happens and there's a delay and momentum switch. I was getting emails from Philly friends that I had who were at the game, who they were all celebrating and hugging each other. And then they in slow motion look at the court and nothing, you know, obviously that it looked like the game was going to continue. They're all like, what? Pretty dramatic switch. And when you consider the Celtics pretty much stole game two, too. I was not convinced there was going to be a sweep last night,

especially when you looked at the schedule, which was game two, Thursday night late. Game three, Saturday afternoon, late afternoon. And then Monday at six, it was a lot of basketball over a four and a half day span. The Celtics looked pretty banged up by the end of this game. And I got to be honest, I didn't feel like the Celtics advancing was a foregone conclusion. I don't think Vegas did either. Even with the Celtics had a three nothing lead,

they were only minus 800 favorites to win the series. Philly was plus 650 to win the series. They had not won a game yet. It was game four. So now you look at what's happened in game five. I think Philly is slight favorites in game five. Shane Larkin might be out. You know the Celtics season has been bizarre

when you're saying like, oh my God, what are we gonna do? Shane Larkin might be out. But that's where we are as Celtics fans. Jalen Brown in person did not look good last night. He definitely is not. I saw him against Milwaukee in game two, and then I saw him again in person last night, and I would estimate he's at like 60%. So that wasn't great. And then I thought Terry Rozier really looked tired last night and McConnell took advantage of him. Our Lord and Savior, TJ McConnell, took advantage of him over and over again in that game and just had more speed and energy than Rozier did. Celtics hung around. And what was weird about that game, because Philly is so strangely coached, they had the wrong lineup in for a couple minutes there in the fourth quarter. And then all of a sudden with like four and a half minutes left, the crowd was tense. Celtics were down, I think nine and missed four wide open threes. I think it was either three or four, but all of them, I thought were going in a couple of them spun in and went out and Philly was having

terrible possessions on the other. And I do feel like if Boston had just made two of those threes, they might've actually won the game, but it wasn't their night. The refs were horrible. I was really worried about my dad. His least favorite ref Scott Foster took over the game of the second quarter. The Sixers had a 12 to one free throw advantage. So that was ridiculous. And I don't know. I'm nervous. Game five tomorrow night in Boston, eight o'clock start, which is good. Fans will be nice and lathered up. Celtics six and O at home this year. That part's good.

Philly doesn't seem to know who their best five guys are. That part makes me feel optimistic. If Larkin is out, you're really counting on seven guys here for this. The Celtics need three-point shooting. They need Roger. All the things they've had all series. But, man, there's this looming, if they blow this game five, now we're back in Philly for game six Friday night. Crowd's going to be bonkers.

Philly's going to be more comfortable every game. And there is a roadmap where this goes seven. So even though it's not a must, must, must win for the Celtics tomorrow, in a way it is because the longer this goes, the more dangerous it is. I think Vegas agrees. Philly is, I think, a one point favorite tomorrow. They might even be one and a half. Our friend Haral Bob thinks it might get to two and a half. So there you go. The biggest gambling miss of the entire playoffs by the general public was LeBron James was plus 160 to beat the Toronto Raptors. He was not even just an underdog. He was like a sizable underdog.

And they swept them. They didn't just sweep them. They ripped their hearts out. LeBron ripped the heart out and actually held it up. I forget what Indiana Jones movie that was. I think it was number two. He just held their hearts up and displayed it for the entire crowd. And the game winner he hit in game three was one of the first ever fuck you game winners that I can remember. He really went into FU mode in game two. And this is, you know, the Jordan LeBron thing.

I don't even want to talk about that argument, but I think the one thing that we were kind of waiting for from the LeBron end, all the people who were there for Jordan and bird, and even going backwards, Russell and people like that is the final level of basketball. The final level of the video game is when you're so good, you just start messing around. It's almost like the games that is as challenging as it should be for, for you as a human being anymore. So now you have to challenge yourself, yourself.

And this was what a lot of the great Larry Bird stories were in 85, 86, 87. You know, you watch like the bird documentaries, the stuff on YouTube, he'd go into these games, the famous one in Portland, he decided to shoot everything left-handed for the entire game. And then actually like made, I think 11 or 12 left-handed shots just for the hell of it. And I felt like LeBron was hitting that point in game two. And that was, you know, when we talk about the Jordan LeBron thing, the thing with Jordan was he was so great that you honestly felt sometimes that he could do whatever he wanted, even no matter how high the stakes was, how big the stage was,

he was still always kind of in control and could mess around however he wanted. I think one of his most famous games was the Portland game. One of the 92 finals game when it, for, you know, a week, it was Clyde Drexler and Michael Jordan, who's better and really stupid stuff. And Jordan just came out and took an uncharacteristic number of threes and just gutted the Blazers. And he did it for the sport of it, you know, more than anything. It wasn't just to win the game.

It was like he was sending a message. He was messing around. He was experimenting with it. And that's what made it special. And I think that's been the quality that LeBron has not totally had his whole career. What's been great about him is the durability, the consistency, and just what an unbelievable athletic and basketball mind, or what an unbelievable athlete and basketball mind he is. There was never the sense that he was like, I'm so great, I'm just going to destroy you

guys. I'm going to mess around now. It was a confidence level that I never felt like he had totally achieved. Even his most famous kind of ass kicking performance, I think, was 2012 Boston game six. And he was making the shots, but it wasn't a performance. He was just trying to crush Boston. There was no performance element to it. He wasn't connecting with the crowd and kind of alerting people that he was on this higher level. And in the Toronto game too, he was, it was a side of him that we just haven't seen.

He was taking these crazy follow-ins that were horrible shots and making them and no, and he knew he was going to make them and he was doing it. I'm talking game three, not game two. He was doing it. Oh no, it was game two in Toronto. He was doing it to kill the crowd. He was doing it to send a message and he was doing it because he's the best player in the league and he wasn't challenged by Toronto anymore. And he just wanted to stick it to them. And then game three continued and the buzzer beater he made, which as I mentioned earlier, was the rarely seen FU buzzer beater. He just made it intentionally difficult on himself. He

could have tried to get to the line. He could have pulled up. He could have done all the usual things you do. I think he really wanted to take that specific shot. He wanted a running start. He wanted to go full speed and then shoot off one leg and bank it in. I think all of that was, was decided before the play happened. I really do.

So this side of LeBron that we're seeing is just kind of uncharted territory for him. You know, Windhorse wrote a great piece. Windhorse was on here a couple of weeks ago. He wrote a great piece about how LeBron James has figured out how to rest during games and how the stats say that he is one of the 10 slowest people of anyone this NBA season. Now, obviously, he's not one of the slowest people. It's just the pace that he's playing. He covers the least amount of distance. It's like in the top 10.

And the reason he does that is because he's walking all the time. He's not running. He's not saving his little bursts and things like that. And it really seems like he's hitting a higher level of what, when he knows exactly what he wants to do at all times, how to spend his energy. His team is still not very good, I don't think. And I really think Indiana could beat them.

Love is playing better. They're finally getting something out of George Hill. Although with that dude, he could get hurt tomorrow. Everyone else from that, from the big trade deadline that allegedly saved their season. None of those guys are playing. Rodney Hood refused to come in a game yesterday. So they basically won for four with those guys. Korver's playing better. J.R. Smith's playing better. They're getting something from Thompson again. They have six guys right now. And it doesn't really matter because he can smell it. and he's at one of the highest levels. This is one of the best peaks we've seen from him.

So we got that going. And then the other conference, it's going to be Houston. It's going to be Golden State. We've known that all along. I tried to get excited about New Orleans maybe giving Golden State a seven-gamer. Really interesting story about Draymond Green kind of challenging Durant before game four because I felt the same way from Durant this whole season. He's very hesitant to just lay the smack down.

I don't know what he's – he's trying so hard to be a team player and to not kind of do a Westbrook basically. And sometimes you got to do a Westbrook and he did that in game four. He was easily the best part in the floor. The, from the get go and from the entire game, he was taking shots. And I think he ended up with 27 shots.

He's being selfish. Guess what? Kind of needed to be selfish. I think there was, especially the last month of the season, when the words were starting to come apart a little bit, that would have been a great time for Katie to just be like, get on my back. I'm going to score 40 points a game for the next two weeks. Here we go.

And we just haven't seen that from him this year. And I don't really know what the reasons were. I thought he was incredible the first two and a half months of the year, both ends. And then from that point on, it just seems like he's been on cruise control waiting for the playoffs. Game four in New Orleans was a smackdown. We have a lot of guys playing well right now. But he got the better of LeBron last year. It looks like we're headed for Cleveland-Golden State again this year.

I would be very surprised if Houston beat Golden State. I'd be very surprised if Cleveland didn't make the playoffs unless they have an injury or something. Who knows? Anyway, we're going to talk quickly about our captain of the week. Hold on. My iPad just turned off. There we go. The captain will not rest until he has brought his adventurous spirit and delicious rum to every corner of America. Original spiced coconut, pineapple, white, black grapefruit, whatever you want. The captain loves anyone who learns to mix like a captain. I'm making the captain this week, Brad Stevens,

who got a technical last night. So that's how you knew the refs were bad because Brad Stevens never gets technicals ever. But the stuff that he has done in this Philly series, I think the ceiling of Philly's town is just higher. I think they have better options for mismatches and things like that. And it just did not matter. Those first three games,

the out of bounds, timeout out of bounds, coming out of a timeout, the plays that he was doing near the end and game three was all time. Stevens, not a surprise to anybody who's watched him. When you have him as your coach, you know that your team is going to be the best prepared. You know that you're going to get performances from people that probably wouldn't succeed on just about any other team. You know that he is going to figure out the mismatches that work for Boston that people might not normally see. I think what he did in the first

few Philly games, he was basically begging Philly to just pound it to a bead. Like, please take your 22 to 26 shots. Everyone else is going to stand around. What he didn't want was slash and kick. He didn't want shooters coming off double screens and all the stuff that I think makes Philly really dangerous. He wanted them to pound it to Embiid and they fell for it. And they did it for two straight games. If you notice, they did a lot less yesterday. And that's the thing with a long series. You only have so many moves you can make, so many little tricks. He has more tricks than any coach I've ever seen. I honestly think this is the best basketball coaching performance I've ever seen in my life.

It's really rare to see a coach impact a series and a playoffs like this. I think Larry Brown with the 0-4 Pistons was great. On the other hand, that team had Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace in their primes, Chauncey Billups hitting his prime, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, that they were a monster defensively. That team had so much talent looking back. I don't think you can say the same about the Celtics team. I really don't.

The amount that they rely on Jason Tatum is kind of staggering. Yesterday, before he got into foul trouble and he kind of cooled off a little bit, it just seemed like he was the whole offense just running through Tatum. That's not common. That doesn't happen normally. And I really don't think it would have happened for Tatum on any other team the way it's happened here. Same thing for how he uses Horford and Terry Rozier,'s the fourth guard and the team comes flying in. I've just been

blown away by what he's done. It reminds me of what Belichick was doing in 01. I doubt it's going to have the same result with the stealing the championship thing, but just in 01 with Belichick, just watching that team and going, how are we doing this? This makes no sense. The foundation was pretty similar though. Really good defense, a couple of good players, riding special teams, riding mismatches, coaching tactics, all this stuff. And they were underdogs the whole way and somehow just kept pulling out wins. And all of a sudden they were winning the Super Bowl.

Again, I do not think basketball works the same way in football. You only have to beat somebody once in basketball. You have to beat them four to seven times. And usually the right team wins. And at some point the talent deficiency is going to be overmatched, but I defy you to find any other team in the league where you could just take their two best players off the team. And then they would be one win away for the conference finals. It is inexplicable. Brad Stevens, you probably don't drink. I don't know if you've ever had a drink, but you're my captain of the week. All right, now it's time to talk SNL and a lot more with Allison Herman.

Let's go. All right, Allison Herman is here. I don't use the word critic. It's the same thing for Grant Land with Andy Greenwald. I never called him TV critic. I called him connoisseur. So I'm going to call you, I'm going to say the same for you. Our TV connoisseur, Alison Herman is here. How are you? Good. Such a, such a fancy title. I know it's good, right? A critic, critic makes it seem like somebody's just home bitching about whatever's on. I never liked that word. I, it feels like it's got a negative connotation that I don't appreciate.

Yeah. Maybe enthusiast. I feel like that fits. Oh, that's a good one too. I like that. Um, all right.

SNL wrapping up another season. I think this is 43. Is that 43? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really strange season. Definitely.

I've yeah. I've grown up with this show. I have seen every variation and incarnation of it. I have learned not to say SNL is dead and all of those things. You just kind of ride it and the show kind of takes you where culture is and it has its flaws and it's frustrating sometimes, but ultimately always ends up in the right place over the course of a decade. These last two years have been interesting because they don't have really the breakout

star. They don't have the dominant male cast member. They've always had that one alpha dog. Kate McKinnon's the closest they have to an alpha dog. She was barely in last week's show. But what they have done is use celebrities and recurring guest star celebrities. And now it's like gone full blown where you have the last couple of weeks, they've had these shows where you have Ben Stiller and Jimmy Fallon and Al Baldwin. And it's basically like a Hollywood cast

pretending to be an SNL cast. Is this a trend or is this just what the show is now? I mean, they got in a weird bad habit by outsourcing for Trump. They obviously cast Baldwin, who's in this weird liminal, like he's half a celebrity, but he's half a friend of the show. He's in like the so-called five timers club. He's obviously a bigger star than SNL, but he makes sense to pull in as a regular. And then for reasons that I don't fully understand, they just decided to double down. So like what I couldn't believe is that apparently Scarlett Johansson is just like the canonical Ivanka Trump now, which means, you know, you can't actually go to maybe like the fifth most important political figure in the country right now on a regular basis because she has like 17 other jobs. And like, yeah, I mean, they just do this weird,

they have this bizarre reliance on stunt casting recently where like the part I thought was kind of the step over the line was casting Ben Stiller as Michael Cohen, which I like Ben Stiller, but Michael Cohen is not a character who is big or weird or outstanding enough that you desperately need an A-list star to rise to the occasion. Like who at home in America has like a vision of Michael Cohen in their head that they need someone to embody? He's just like a random guy. Beck Bennett could have done it. Kyle Mooney probably could have done like some greaseball version of that comedian character he does. It's just such a weird choice to be like, OK, well, we need to get someone big for this one. And I thought was like a real

signal of where the show is right now. Well, Ivanka Trump, same thing. It's it. There's two parts to it. One is you're relying on these people as you said who might not be available all the time and then the second part is those are great prime parts for cast members to play and potentially you know gain some steam with like i really like uh heidi gardner i think joanne this year i think she's good and she's like a thin blonde tall like she's such a perfect like she could be ivanka she could be she's such a perfect, like she could be Ivanka. She could be Stormi. There are so many people.

She could be Ivanka. She could have been Ivanka right away and it would have been awesome. And, but now they're outsourcing that and she doesn't get to even be in the sketch. And, you know, it's almost like if we had the ringer and Atlanta was on and I said to you, you don't get to write about Atlanta. I've actually outsourced this to Ben Stiller because he's a bigger name. That's just crazy. And I don't know if that's a way to build your talent.

And I don't know if it's a sustainable model. But at the same time, the show starts and Ben Stiller's there and De Niro and all these huge names are getting. It is a different experience watching it. Well, and it's a weird short-term boost, long-term handicap because during the election, they got a huge bump in the ratings

that I actually looked this up and apparently their ratings now are basically on par with where they were last year. On paper, SNL is doing really well. I'm sure NBC is happy. I'm sure it's making money. It's working in a way that I understand why they're not in crisis mode

and why they're doubling down on this. But then, you know, if you think like, okay, like two, three years from now, like who's, you know, Kate McKinnon's contract is up next year. Who's going to step up to the plate? It's such a weird, like they're creating their own vacuum.

Right. And a weekend update's better. But I think the fact that they're not, it used to be this never-ending talent pool that they would dip into. And then I think one of the best examples was like basically 06, 07, when they found Sandberg and Hader and Sudeikis.

And it was just this murderer's row of people, Kirsten Wiig, and then all the way through to when McKinnon joined, which I think was at the end of that decade. I think she was 2012. Or 2012, yeah. So maybe near the tail end of that run. And then it's like, oh, here they go again. And then that's kind of, I don't want to say fizzled.

They have a lot of role players. If it was a basketball team, they'd have no superstar but a bunch of solid rebounders and passers. Yeah, I think Update's doing well enough. Obviously, Colin Jost and Michael Che just got recruited to host the Emmys, which is a weird decision but an understandable one. I also think one of SNL's weird hiring quirks in recent years is that they've brought on a lot of people who are like really accomplished standups, but aren't necessarily like sketch players.

Like, you know, you're Pete Davidson's or you're Leslie Jones. And like, obviously, the way to spotlight those people is to just like give them a spot on the update desk and just let them talk as themselves for five minutes. And it makes for a really good like single element of the show. But then those people can't really like go back back and perform as well as they do in that context and sketches. And so you have this weird, I think Kyle Mooney and Beck Bennett are kind of like that, where they have their own sensibility, but at least they can have their own digital shorts. It's just a very, they have a lot of good solo performers that don't necessarily fit

into a good ensemble cast. Yeah. And when you read about the history of the show, the show is always at its best. And they'll talk about it with these people that can play any character like the Bill Hader types or Kate McKinnon. These people that can get thrown into any situation. They can be the waiter in one scene and have one line and the next scene they're carrying an entire scene. And that's just how the show has always succeeded. Usually when the casts are a little bit smaller too, this cast is,

is pretty big, but the thing that I wanted to talk about, which I didn't even tell you what, what this was the topic. Cause I want to just throw this at you. Ooh, fun. So SNL has always been this barometer for whatever is kind of going on culturally, right?

Like you look at the 70s, it comes out of like this whole Vietnam War, Nixon and counterculture and pot smoking and drugs and just that whole, and it's just all in the show. That was the show for the first five years. And then the 80s come, it's an age of excess and they get caught up in that they finally put together that one dream cast in the 85 with billy crystal billy crystal martin short

all these things it was almost like they were putting together a giant baseball team then they kind of went back to the basics and then as the show had this second renaissance and like the 15th anniversary um with the with the phil hart, Mike Myers, Dana Carvey, all those people. It was also capturing the culture, which at that point was very pop culture driven, very ironic. Dennis Miller's doing Weekend Update. It's just that kind of though it was a little happier, a little more upbeat and very like kind of kids who grew up watching TV now making a TV show. Now I look at what's happening.

So you go all the way and it hits all these checkpoints. And now I'm looking at the show and the most interesting things they're doing over and over again are stuff like the Friendo sketch and a lot of the stuff with black celebrity culture and athletes and really more black-driven stuff. Yeah, like Coochie Gang? All the stuff. It's been the best stuff on the show all year. And this is a show that was taking shit three years ago

that it didn't even have a female cast member. Now the show is way more diverse than it used to be. The best shows they've had this year are Sterling K. Brown, Donald Glover. And I loved Sterling K. Brown did that thing where he did the Common thing where he was just making fun of Common as the Dr. Seuss hip-hop. Hip-hop Dr. Seuss or whatever that was. I thought that was great. The Friendos thing and a couple of these other things.

And now I'm wondering, is that the direction SNL should go? Because when you think about it, celebrity culture, sports, all this stuff, they never really had the right cast to parody a lot of this stuff. And maybe that's where it needs to go. What do you think of this idea? I mean, that is something like I've noticed recently, like you noticed over the past few years, like there have been sketches SNL has done that they like physically could not do in recent years because like they did not have the cast to populate that many chairs like right Black Jeopardy as a sketch franchise which is like one of the most successful things they've done it's done like the Tom Hanks one was like one of the best pieces of political commentary they did that was like they're into Black Panther like Donald

Glover doing the whole like Lando in space where are all the black people thing like it's really interesting to watch them you know make use of their cast that way it was actually weirdly like i was just watching tina fey do the letterman thing uh that like letterman interview show and she was talking about it as, a female writer and the effect of, like, what sketches she was able to get on the air just, like, as there were more women in the room at the table reads who would, like, laugh at jokes because they understood the references. Oh, that's interesting. Well, she was saying she, like, dug Kotex Classic, like, out of the junk pile because the guys, like, literally did not understand what the joke was or like how it would be executed and she was like I had to explain to them like what the visual gag would be because they just like didn't know how tampons worked right and so I think like it's just a testament to when you have people in the

room who can like pick up on something and who can pick up on things happening in the larger culture and like hip-hop is just more dominant now than it's ever been. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. Like it's valuable to cast with an eye towards that, I think. Well, what you just said about Tina Fey, that's another good example of the show marrying what was happening in the culture. All of a sudden that it was a really strong female show because it had Tina Fey, it had Amy Poehler, it had Maya Rudolph. And who was the other one there was a rachel dratch rachel dratch in a gas tire was on right before them but i don't

know if they were all in the same cast but um but that remember that was the first time it was like hey women are funny and there were all these stupid things written and said about that but it was it was kind of seizing a moment where I was like, yeah, women are funny. Here we go. We're going to have some good stuff. And now I think the next incarnation of this show, I think, has to capture. I don't know if they even do that Migo skip five years ago. Oh, they definitely don't.

They definitely don't have the people to have it, right? Exactly. They can't cast it that way. And I mean like come back Barack when chance was on like, yeah. And like one of the most interesting things about black jeopardy as a sketch is like, that joke is like not written with a white audience in mind,

which like the rest of SNL absolutely is like the references in that sketch are so specific and so not explained in a way that's like almost disorienting, like as a white viewer, but is really interesting to see, like on a show that is like a historically white institution. Yeah, you think about it crystallized some things that I didn't realize that I thought, but even something like how they never had the right person to play Obama. That's kind of crazy. Obama was president for eight years. They had a Latino guy who was like the only not white dude that they had. And they were like, it's fine. I, that, that is just so wild in retrospect. I mean, like, and the best one was the rock. That was the only funny Barack Obama there. Jay Pharoah was okay. But, like, and, and the best one was the rock. That was the only funny Barack Obama there. Jay Pharoah was okay. But, but, uh, when the rock did the rock Obama, whatever that was, that was actually pretty funny. Yeah. I mean, my, my actual countervailing theory to that is like,

I think SNL has been really good lately when it just hasn't tried to chase the zeitgeist at all. Like the cold opens aren't great. They're just like restating the headlines. And like my vote for the most interesting person involved in SNL creatively right now, actually, is it a cast member? It's a writer named Julio Torres who like does some standup, but he does these like really weird, non-topical, clearly from his own brain. He did that like Barbie sketch that Donald Glover did. He did that like weird papyrus thing that Ryan Gosling did.

And it's just so like clearly the product of someone's brain and not trying to chase like claptor or a headline. And it's just some of the most, like you watch it and you know who wrote it, which is like a really, really, really hard thing to accomplish in a, you know, in like a 20 something strong writer's room.

Yeah. And I do think like, you know, you feel it when they have a great host. It does help to have an awesome alpha dog type person in there. Like when Bill Hader was on, it was like, oh yeah, this show's really good because Bill Hader's on it, you know? And it's like, you can do nine things now with Bill Hader that you would not have been able to do with a normal person. Yeah. And John Mulaney hosted a couple of weeks ago. He was good too. That almost felt like cheating though, because like he was a writer and he was

a writer during a stronger period of the show. So like my favorite sketch that night was probably like the weird switcheroo sitcom one. And that was like a direct follow-up to Rocket Dog, which is a Tracy Morgan sketch from like eight years ago. I do think, so Chris Redd, who is in that Friendo sketch, I think he has a shitload of potential. Oh, he's great. His Lil Wayne impression, he did it for like two sentences and it just like totally popped out.

Yeah, he's definitely rookie of the year. This was his first year. He's been in a lot of big stuff already. And also is really important for some of the stuff we're talking about because some of the, most of the stuff that I want to see parodied cannot be done by like Mikey day, you know, it's gotta be somebody who is going to whip out a little weight impersonation, but like, Holy shit, was that a little Wayne impersonation? They need more of that. I think that this isn't just the case for SNL,

but more diversity with the cast and the more flexibility they have to go in a bunch of directions, I think is the key for them. Yeah, they've done good hiring recently of younger people who I could see developing. Melissa Villasenor is embarrassingly the first Latina cast member they have literally ever had yeah which is not a great statistic on paper but like she's a really gifted impressionist she's also really distinctive and like I don't think the show has quite figured out how to use her yet she was in a good a good sketch with Donald Glover this week but like once they, I could see her being really good. I think Chris and Heidi are really good.

I think Luke Knoll is like the obligatory, like guy per season that isn't quite going to make it, but they have a writer named Gary Richardson, who's done a few sketch cameos and like a similar trajectory to what Leslie Jones did before she was formally cast that I think could be really good. Why do you think Netflix hasn't tried to challenge the SNL empire yet and do a Friday night kind of blown out, expensive, taped version

of a sketch show and try to get a jump on them? I've never understood why everybody has just ceded this ground to SNL. Even when In Living Color came in in the early 90s, that show had a significant impact culturally, I felt like. I felt like I was in the demo, obviously, so I watched it. But they launched a lot of careers. Jamie Foxx came from that show. Jim Carrey.

That show, you look back at that talent that was on that show, and you go, holy shit, that show was loaded with people. And even though it was an SNL shadow, it was still a success. I can't believe nobody's challenged them. Well, Comedy Central had that like wave of sketch shows a while back with like Key and Peele and Amy Schumer.

That was really strong. No, but I'm saying like, I'm saying going weekend late night. Yeah. On a bit on either ABC, CBS, Netflix. I mean, the whole live thing is just like antithetical to Netflix and Hulu doesn't want to, like the companies own that.

So I don't think Hulu would want to go up against NBC. But Netflix actually did like a really interesting comedy experiment a while back called The Characters, where it was sort of like, okay, like we have this existing model of a standup special where we just like give someone some money

and film them in front of a wall in an audience what if we kind of used our cash and did that for sketch performers and improvisers where we're just like okay write a half an hour of stuff you have to play a certain number of characters they can take whatever form you want and we'll film it and so like lauren lapkus did it john early kate Kate Berlant, Tim Robinson. And it was like a really interesting, oh, like this whole idea of showcasing a single performer can be done with something that isn't stand up. And it seems like it didn't really pan out. They haven't done a second season. But like Natasha Rothwell, who was like the breakout of Insecure, like I first noticed her through that. And I wish they would do it again.

You can save four cast members for next year for us to know who you're saving. Well, Kate McKinnon, I actually think needs to graduate. So maybe not her. What is it? It's year seven for her. Seven years is enough. Yeah, I think she's in like this weird bind where like, I don't know if there is a better vehicle for her right now because studio comedies are in

such a bad place but well wait a second aren't there like 500 shows in development right now yeah money from somebody she can get money for like a show I just don't know if it would be like as good for her I mean if she has an idea like Barry to do what Bill Hader

is doing right now which I think is like maybe the best performance on TV and is just such a good showcase for him. Like I think if she is one of those ideas, that's the best like route. But usually leading your own show kind of means you need to be like the straight person because you need to be the anchor.

And she works so well as these like crazy big supporting characters, which would to me indicates like she should be in more movies, but there aren't all that many movies right now that would like showcase her in that way. But either way, I think she should. It's tough.

I don't think she could be the lead of Bridesmaids, like that kind of thing. It almost seems like she's gonna be relegated to these sidekick parts. Yeah, I mean, she should like in a perfect world, she would have a part like what Tiffany Haddish had or what Melissa McCarthy had. And that would like be her springboard.

But I just, it's hard for her. But in terms of like people on the cast right now, I mean, we just talked about Chris red, Heidi Gardner, most of you, a senior.

And then, oh man, I really like Pete Davidson. Like that's kind of my hot take is I've been really, really enjoying his performances. Wow, a Pete Davidson corner. I wasn't expecting this. I think it might be a little bit of a straight woman thing,

but he's like really charismatic in this way where like I could see him developing into kind of a leading guy um I really enjoy his kind of like punky smart aleck wise guy like you know little frat brother of the crew see I'm I'm the other way I think he needs to graduate and I think his destiny is to actually have a really weird single camera of FX or HBO show that has some weird angle and he's just this lovable loser guy who's I who knows but you know what I mean I I would want to spend a half hour a week with him for like eight weeks yeah some weird scenario yeah I mean maybe that's like Kyle Mooney's sort of similar I actually loved Brigsby bear. It was like never going to make any money at all,

but it was such a good showcase for him personally. And like it used all of his weird comedic ticks that you usually see him used to make fun of himself and then like turn it into a compelling, dramatic character. I actually think like of the leading guy parts that you mentioned before, like a hater ass, maybe the closest thing they have to that right now is probably Beck Bennett. Like he is a good,

he's able to both just like be a dude and then like turn it on and be like baby boss if he needs to be. So maybe he's the fourth one. Yeah. He's like the neutral party who kind of supports everyone. Yeah. Quickly. You mentioned how much you love Barry.

I also love Barry I saw the first two when I was at South by Southwest and I was worried because I had to do a podcast the next day so I was like I really hope this is good I don't want to have to dance around that I didn't like it or pretend I liked it and I was like whoa this is excellent I really enjoyed this

and it's actually gotten kind of darker and crazier and better. And he's gotten better as the show's gotten along, which is interesting because when I did the pod with him, he was saying how when they started filming it and he did the first episode, he wasn't good as an actor because he had forgotten that he actually had to act and create a character. He had done so many other pieces of it. And it does feel like he's gotten better as the show's gone along. The last two, including this one that was on this week,

was probably his Emmy reel, this last one. I think he's been amazing. I always felt like he had it in him, didn't you? Oh, yeah. I mean, he's always been phenomenal. I was rewatching. I interviewed John Mulaney a while back and so I was researching and I was watching,

like, What's Wrong With Tanya? Which is that, like, hilarious sketch where they're making fun of, like, Lifetime original movies

and he plays the game show host and he does this, like, heel turn where he turns from, like, generic TV guy to,

like, the joke is that he's, like, Anna Faris' abusive husband, kind of. Right. Which is really dark but he plays it like super well.

And I just thought Barry was this incredible, like they really explore both like the pathos of this situation. Like this is a guy who really wants to get out and he is really like a sensitive, bruised soul who has been actually hurt and hollowed out by this lifestyle. But he's also like like, a terrifying murderer who does not hesitate when the time comes to do what he thinks he has to do.

I think it's actually arguable whether he has to do it. And the way the show itself, like, follows through on its own logical premise and is like, okay, like, this guy kills people. Like, let's show him really killing people and killing people that we know and like and what does that do to how we relate to him and it's a really good showcase for him but i think it's also a very generous show like it doesn't glorify him it lets other people kind of carry the real sympathy and emotional weight sometimes.

And it's such a weird idea. It shouldn't work. And it's one of those things where you're like, okay, I have to trust this because I like this person and I want to see what they do. And it actually lives up to it. You wrote a piece about the last episode on The Ringer. And I thought you jumped on what I thought was the best part of the whole season the 30 seconds when he realizes he has to kill that dude oh I mean I it's it's really kind of gripping and and affecting I physically like jumped in my seat when you get to the point

because you don't notice it at first where like the Chris the soldier is having this breakdown so all your attention is on him and how he's freaking out about how he's killed someone and he can't live with this and he has to come clean. And in the middle of it, like, Hater just kind of mumbles, why did you have to say that? And you don't really understand, like, what he means. And then he interrupts it and just screams, like, why'd you have to say that? And, like, it is shocking. It immediately brings the scene to a halt. And he doesn't say anything but you you just immediately

know what is about to happen and you have like this thing that you weren't even thinking about as a possibility 15 seconds before is just like occupying your whole brain and just like the expression on his face for like he's simultaneously like torn apart but like not torn apart enough to not pull the trigger is just like i think that that specific 30 seconds is the emmy reel i think he's gonna win best actor i mean i was looking at the nominees and i really think he's the favorite yeah i mean like last year glover won which like he's eligible again this year but i don't know if they want to do a repeat there. Like, Tambor's out, obviously. There was someone else who their show ended.

Like, no one from Veep is in the lead category. Like, Anthony Anderson might get nominated again, but, like, he was never going to win anyway. Oh, Aziz Ansari isn't eligible anymore because there isn't a new season of Master of None. And it's like, okay, like, an SNL alum that everyone likes who's in like a new edgy HBO show. I think he's definitely getting nominated. And like I think he's probably more of a favorite to win like a Golden Globe because they like being edgier. But I definitely hope he like makes it on the stage. I think he has a real chance.

It's funny. TV, it ebbs and flows, we have good runs We have bad runs It feels like we're on a great run right now Atlanta Barry Billions and Killing Eve Those shows are all

My buddy Hershey who always bitches about TV He's like, I'm so tired of a B plus I don't want another B plus Is there an A minus out there? Is there an A? Is'm so tired of a B plus. I don't want another B plus. Is there an A minus out there? Is there an A? Is there anything higher than a B plus? And I think all four of those shows are above a B plus, in my opinion. Yeah, and this year was not off to a good start.

Like last year, within like the first month, we had both The Young Pope and Riverdale, which are like two of my favorite shows of the last five years. And so for like January and February of this year, I was kind of bummed out and it was really slow. And I was like, have we finally hit the point of peak TV? We're like, we've just ordered too much stuff and no one's developing or refining any of it.

And then like, not out of nowhere, we knew this was coming, but like Barry hits, like Killing Eve. Like if you are not watching Killing Eve, it is just extraordinary. And like exactly the kind of thing where like TV didn't make this five years ago. And this is why we, you know, it's a good thing that we're kind of expanding the slate right now.

And obviously we both love Billions. So yeah. Yeah. It's a great, it's a murderer's row. Notice I didn't put Homeland in there. Last thing before we go, you watch all TV, you know everything, you know everything that's

going on no one watches all tv but i try i know i'm always astonished by how much you catch there's a show you don't know about because you wouldn't know about because you're not in the demo you're not a parent and you're not a 12 year old girl um it's called alexa and katie have you heard about this oh is this the netflix multic Netflix multicam with the two girls who are friends and one of them is cancer? Yeah. Okay. That's exactly what it is.

I know the long line. I haven't watched it. All right. So a couple things here. The girl has cancer and shaves her head and the whole thing, but it's presented presented as a, almost like a Disney channel, single,

yeah. A multi cam whole thing, but it's not, it's actually a little bit more serious than that. Um, Tiffany and Bethesda and the mom. Oh, that.

Oh, wow. Okay. So, and, uh, and my daughter loved this show as much. My daughter just turned 13.

So she's in the demo. She loved this show and much. My daughter just turned 13, so she's in the demo. She loved this show and it ended. And she was like, I don't understand. Where's season two? Because kids don't have any concept of when a show premieres, when it's released. They just assume there's just going to be 100 episodes when they start liking a show. And I said, no, that's it. It's the first season.

Was there going to be a second season? And she freaked out. And I think there is going to be a second season. But she has not liked the show this much ever that has been on. So yeah, I think I almost feel like you should check it out. Yeah, I'll look at it. Netflix has done well recently with both like kids stuff,

like 13 Reasons Why is coming back this month, which like I have some issues with, but it's very, very popular. Yeah. I mean, it got its job done. And then like they have One Day at a Time, which is this like really sweet Norman Lear produced multicam. It's like a reboot of one of his shows,

but it's like modernized and it's about a Cuban family in LA but like it really like hits that sweet spot I could also like really imagine that

being a good family show but they seem to be like developing their kids late a lot like at Sunset Gower they definitely have some shows shooting

but yeah no I'll check it out it's short too I think the episodes are like maybe 20 minutes oh my god on netflix yeah they're they're they've they've kind of fly by especially because there's no commercials or anything and it's just all of a sudden it's on to the next one oh a netflix show

that understands pacing is uh very rare that's a good sell last but not least i plowed through the entire cobra kai show on saturday. I watched the entire 10 episode run. My whole family was gone. And I was shocked by how decent it was. I actually genuinely enjoyed it. You and our East Coast beer chief, Donnie Kwok, were both like repping for it. And so also was not previously on my radar.

Most YouTube red stuff is not, but like they have something with Adam Pally in the works now, like Facebook is making stuff. I really gotta, I gotta start taking these tech giants seriously. I was shocked by how well done it was by how all in they went. Like it really could have been a Netflix show or Hulu or any of these things.

So they definitely spent the money. And if you like that movie, you know, I think Donnie and I are more in the demo for the 1984 Karate Kid, but it's an homage to the old movie, but it's actually a completely new show. Like my son watched the whole thing, my 10 year old son and really liked it. He'd only seen the movie like twice. I heard they made it like a sad thing about like two dudes who got hung up on high school. So it's like self-aware. Yeah, they did.

It was really smart. And we may or may not have Ralph Macchio and William Zabka coming on the BS podcast. Oh. So hold on to your ass. Now, okay. I got to prep. Yeah, yeah. So there you go.

Allison, this was fun. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. All right. All right. Quick break to talk about Gillette. I've been shaving since college. I still shave because I'm a man who needs to shave.

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all under $10. That's high performance at a low price. Get Gillette performance delivered to your door and find Gillette 5 at GilletteOnDemand.com. Subscribe today. Speaking of shaving and playoff beards, let's talk about a little hockey. All right. I'm in Boston. She's in my office. We have four kids between us. And I think she's the only one on the ringer staff who's actually watching the NHL playoffs other than maybe Donnie Kwok. Katie Banks, what are we missing? What are we missing with this playoffs? I was going to say, you can't leave Donnie out. That's what you're probably missing. You're missing. Finally, the Washington Capitals have slayed the dragon of getting to the third round of the playoffs. So we're very excited for Washington. Congratulations. The Wizards

couldn't do it. Alexander Ovechkin is the only one who can. So I've lied. I have actually watched my fair share of hockey playoffs. I just don't tweet because the hockey people, they just don't allow anyone else in the bubble. Either you're all in on hockey or you're not allowed. You're basically just relegated to the kids' table. The Bruins game, the licking from Marshand, I feel like completely changed the season, but we don't have to talk about that.

The Caps thing, I just assumed when it was Caps-Pens, oh, the Caps will lose. They always lose to the Pens. That's it. What was different this year? Well, first of all, I like how you very quickly went past the Boston Bruins lick scene around the world. Yeah, I didn't like it.

I mean, it's not a headshot at least, but the NHL already has problems with diseases like the mumps, so it's probably not the best. But anyway, I think for the Capitals, I mean, in some ways, it's like the law of averages. Like they've lost so many times to the Penguins. They've lost so many game sevens that this year they were finally able to avoid having to face another game seven at home with just all the baggage that that

has. And I mean, I keep going back to Ovechkin because I love him, but he's just really had a great season. He's hit a lot of milestones. You know, he's got Kuznetsov, who scored the game winner the other night. And they've just kind of been the players that they've kind of been playing at their best. And I think this season they just were able to finally get over the hump against Pittsburgh. So the Ovechkin thing reminds me of what happened with Dirk Nowitzki in basketball, where he was this franchise guy, an MVP, all that stuff. And everybody was kind of waiting for him to have his moment. And then he couldn't get over the hump. And then he became kind of unfairly maligned for years and years.

And should they trade him? And what's going to happen? And just when everybody kind of gave up on Dirk, that's when the 2011 playoffs happened and suddenly he's beating LeBron and Wade in the finals. Did it seem like people gave up on him as somebody that could be the superstar that could actually win a cup? I think it was.

I mean, he went through a period where they went through so many coaches. And at one point, they had a coach that wanted him to be, you know, kind of playing shot blocking, hard nosed hockey instead of letting him, letting him soar, letting him be Ovi, letting him take that shot from, um, from where he shines. And, um, yeah, I do think he, he's gone through a lot. I mean, it's kind of funny when you look back

on some of his early years like I don't it's almost frustrating to see that people weren't just openly embracing such a dynamic player I mean instead they were kind of tut tutting him when he would score a goal and then you know pretend to light his hand warm his hands over the light of his stick and like it was a fire and you know that made to light his hand, warm his hands over the light of his stick. And like, it was a fire and, and, you know, that made everyone angry in the, in the, oh, so humorous hockey world. Um, so, you know, this he's, he's really come back this season. I mean, he got, he got married in the off season. He had an awesome, you know, wedding where he was dancing shirtless and invited Vladimir Putin who couldn't come, but, uh, sent along a

tea set as a wedding gift. And, um, it's been, you know, and then of course for Ovi, the one year that, you know, Russia wins the gold medal at the Olympics, um, he can't even play on the team and, um, but yeah, I think now someone, I think it was Justin Bourne pointed out that you didn't, no one expected Ovi to suddenly be like the silver fox that he is. He's all of a sudden like this elder statesman with his gray hair. And I think people are kind of finally appreciating him outside Washington in a way that they didn't before. Where does he rank on the bake scale for you from 1 to 10?

If Messi was a 10, where does Ovechkin rank just for your favorite hockey players? He's, I mean, he's up there. It's like, when I think about who I want to win a cup, it's like Henrik Lundqvist, number one. He's at 11. Yeah, he's at 11. He's currently at 11, more so than Messier, because I just like, I have such hopes and dreams for Hank

that like, I just feel so strongly. But yeah, I mean, there's actually, you know, some of the left in the playoffs. OV is probably like number two for me. PK Subban's another one, Joe Thornton, not, not his year this year, but those are kind of my top guys that I just would love to see win the cup. Um, I think both OV and PK have in common that they, I don't know, they would just have so much fun with it. They would kind of not be afraid to, you know, shove it in a few people's faces. And yeah, I just, I mean, I'm a Rangers fan and we played the Capitals a lot and,

but I still just have such a love for Ovi and I kind of feel, I feel that, you know, Washington fans have really, you know, I'm just thinking of poor Donnie. They really deserve this. That said, it's like, it's only the third round. They haven't even made it to the cup yet in Tampa is a really good team stacked with a lot of former Rangers. So it's kind of, it's kind of going to be a strange series for me to watch. Yeah. They kind of worked the Bruins, unfortunately. Yeah.

I mean, they're really good. I mean, they went to the Cup Finals a couple years ago, and they just have a pretty stacked team, kind of a good, just solid organization with a good plan in place. I think you've talked about in football sometimes when that team

has the big playoff win in the you know the first round of the playoffs and they celebrate like you know they just won the super bowl it can be tough i think to play the next game so that's what i'm a little worried about for washington just because tampa really is a good team you missed such a great chance to say organization there i think with uh with the washington fans no Super Bowl. They won the Super Bowl in 91. They have not won a title since. Not a lot of great Caps moments. They made the cup that one year, that weird Adam Oates year. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it like since 98, I don't think any of

their teams have gotten past the second round of the playoffs in any sport. I think that's right. Yeah. And then they've had a lot of Nationals heartbreak and all this stuff. So the Caps being in the finals would be my number one choice for a subplot. And then the 1B for that would be a Veggin. On the other hand, I think it would be hilarious

if Vegas and Tampa were the finals. And I'm kind of rooting for that too. It would just be, it's what Gary Bettman deserves as he just keeps adding teams. Here's your finals, Vegas versus Tampa. Good luck, everybody. It really is like, you know, Gary Bettman got caught smoking a cigarette

and now he has to smoke the whole pack at the kitchen table in front of his mother. Oh my God, it makes me so happy. And then the other possibility that could be a disaster is Tampa, Winnipeg. Yeah. How about that one? Oh, that I think that, I mean, I know Canada is a, is a country that enjoys the sport of

hockey, but I mean, I think Tampa, Winnipeg is like, I think at least Tampa, Vegas, you've kind of got that whole story of Vegas and it kind of does bring in, you know, the quote unquote casual, the elusive casual fan. You know, it's a, it's a crazy, weird, funny story that an expansion team like, you know, literally in their first season could win a cup when no Canadian team has won a cup since like, I think since Montreal. So like 25 years.

Wow. I mean, that's amazing. That's hilarious to me. Sorry, Canada. Um, the other question with Winnipeg is like, there's every time a Canadian team does well, there's this kind of constant conversation in the media about whether it's Canada's team or whether everyone in Canada hates that team, except for, you know, so Vancouver was not Canada's team. Montreal would not be Canada's team because you know, no one in Toronto is going to root for them. So I'm kind of interested to see what the Winnipeg situation would be, whether there'd be sort of a begrudging appreciation for them,

what they've gone through losing the team and getting it back. But yeah, Winnipeg, Tampa, that's a tough one. And I love the National Predators. So I'm, you know, I'm rooting for them in game seven. Do you think, do you think they should have two cups and one is slightly bigger than the other? And if, if there's one where there's no original 16 in the final four, that's like a smaller Stanley cup. It's not like tiny,

but it's just like a little smaller. It's like how you have like the, uh, the SUV that's like bigger versus the smaller SUV kind of same kind of principle. I feel like that could work. The crossover cup. Yeah. The hybrid. Yeah. I mean, uh, it's funny. Cause like a few years back, I mean, the, the final fours were like, I mean, there was a year there was like L.A., Chicago, New York, Montreal. L.A. is obviously not original six, but it's, you know, a big market. And then there was the Boston, Pittsburgh, Chicago, L.A. year. And now, you know, this is the plan. We're spreading the wealth.

You know, we're getting young boys and girls interested in hockey and far flung places. I mean, I will say having been to Tampa, I haven't been to Nashville for like a finals game, but I've been there for an early playoff game. It's really fun to see the crowds in those places and how much they love it. Um, you know, Tampa, they kind of like have this whole setup where everyone brings out lawn chairs and sits on this like, you riverside uh lawn and watches the game right outside the arena and you're like man florida's you know and then goes to like a tiki bar afterwards to party and you're like this is actually a pretty good setup like if i were a player i'd want to play in tampa there's no tax and um i guess vegas has the same situation no

tax but um but yeah i haven't been to a vegas game um i've i've seen it on tv and i love how they're just going you know talk about turning it up to 11 they it just i mean they're doing these like game of thrones style pre-game intros where the knight slays the guy with the shark banner and then they have these weird like daft punk like drummers with weird light up masks and it's just so over the top and so Vegas and it's kind of such a not an F you to the league but just it's a total it's a breath of fresh air when um hockey really is a sport with so much you know history and putting in your paying your dues and all of a sudden you know this expansion team is a series away from a cup final well you know well one thing it makes me think that an nba team could work there

because it really does seem like they've embraced yeah the nhl in a real significant way and i think the vegas raiders are actually going to work too yeah but you know i it's it's incredible to me that an expansion team could win the Stanley Cup. If this happened in the NBA, there's a 0% chance. It's not even like a 1% chance. It'd be a 0% chance if you had every NBA team protect their seven best guys. Whatever the expansion team was would have no chance. And yet in the NHL, this team looks like any other playoff team. You watch all the games on cable, and they look like a playoff team. They don't look any different. I don't really fundamentally understand how they were able to do this.

I know, obviously, they have the hot goalie who's coming back to haunt the Penguins, but it just seems inconceivable to me that you could basically get spare parts from the other 30 NHL teams and put together a Stanley cup contender. I don't understand it. I mean, it really is the ultimate. Nobody believed in us team, you know, like someone had to, you know, everyone on that team was, was a cast off, you know, maybe a few trades here and there, but.

With a chip out with a chip on the shoulder. Yeah. Well, and I, you know, maybe a few trades here and there, but. With a chip on the shoulder? Yeah. Well, and I, you know, I think it's funny because there's talk about a potential Seattle NHL team down the road and people are saying now, well, you know, they're going to have to change the expansion draft rules because obviously, you know, this was, this was like unfair or this gave them too much of an advantage. And it's like, no, if you look at people analyzing the roster

back when they built it, because they kind of built it with, they could have gotten a few more probably big names here and there, but they preferred to kind of do a lot more trades and kind of accumulate draft picks and that sort of thing. But people were like, this team is a bunch of, it's like the Islet of Misfit Toys. But I was just looking up, I think their leading scorer this season, William Carlson,

he played for the Blue Jackets before, and this were his last three seasons with the Blue Jackets. He had two points. I think he played for them for like three games that season. But still, two points, 20 points, 25 points. And then this year with Vegas, he has two points. I think he played for them for like three games that season. So, but still two points, 20 points, 25 points. And then this year with Vegas, he has 78 points. So, I mean, I think some of it is probably a little unsustainable, you may say. But people have literally been saying that since October.

So, you know. Well, they've been awesome at home, right? Because it makes me wonder. I do feel like that would be an advantage both for NHL and NBA too So, you know. Well, they've been awesome at home, right? Because it makes me wonder. I do feel like that would be an advantage both for NHL and NBA too when these visiting teams go to Vegas. Right. And God only knows. Canadian dudes, man, in Vegas.

Who knows? Yeah, it's kind of like having that noon game in Madison Square Garden on a Sunday. Right. Not that the Knicks have been taking advantage of that home court advantage, but it can't be easy for players to come into town on a Saturday night. So, um, yeah, I think that absolutely, I'm sure has, even if that wins them, you know, three games on the margin, two games, like that, that counts. So, um, so this is like, like, you know, you're in, you're in there, you're with all the, the hockey psychos who only want to talk to each other

and prevent anyone else from joining the conversation. Are they okay with this Vegas thing? You sound wounded. I am a little wounded, you know? It's like the hockey fans, they want it both ways. It's like, you know, it's like, more people should pay attention to hockey. And then when any casual fan comes in,

they just shit on them until they leave. So it's like, they have to figure out which path to take. I think it really is like the indie music fan that gets angry when the band goes big. I mean, only with more violence. Yeah.

With more violence and like more obscure references. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the, there are plenty that do appreciate the absurdity. Hockey fans do love absurdity sometimes. But I saw a tweet the other day where someone posted a photo of the crowd outside the arena,

one of those little game day, pregame crowds or whatever. And it was a pretty sizable crowd. I mean, it wasn't like nothing. And someone was like, this looks like the Trump inauguration. You know, like, oh, I see literally hundreds of fans. Wow. And I was like, you know, who are you trying to upset? I don't know.

It's like, who are you insulting here? Like, the fans don't care. Their team's doing well. They have a new team. They don't have to explain themselves for liking an expansion team. And they're not bandwagon. Yeah, maybe they're bandwagon fans,

but any fan of an expansion team is like a From Ground Zero fan. So I just think it would be hilarious. That said, there's kind of some other, the other teams probably have more players that I would be excited to see win, but Vegas as an entity, I think, would be kind of an appropriately bizarre situation.

Well, just imagine being a Maple Leafs fan or a Canadiens fan or Canucks, and you've just been suffering for decades. And then this happens. I mean, the, the team you left out there, think about the Edmonton Oilers and, and I mean, and even going outside of Canada ever so slightly, like the Buffalo Sabres. I mean, these are teams that have, have had, first of all, are like the most hockey mad places in the world. Like Buffalo TV ratings are consistently like one and two, even though the Sabres haven't been close to a successful franchise

in like as long as I can remember practically. So those two teams, I mean, they get number one picks, number two picks year after year, you know, lottery picks and have been kind of in these rebuild modes forever. And now, I mean, Edmonton this year, I think, was kind of a disaster. Instead of kind of taking advantage of the fact that they have young guys on entry-level contracts, which is so valuable, they had a terrible season.

And there's a waste of Connor McDavid, one of his entry level years. So those, I don't know, those are the cities I think of that must just be like so mad. Can I say something though? What? I don't feel bad for Edmonton or their fans. They were blessed by the gods in the 80s. The team they had together was probably the greatest hockey team

ever assembled ever. Yep. And then they won even after they traded Gretzky. There should have been a curse of Gretzky for like a million years, but they actually won the cup after they traded them. And then they picked first for how many years? I know, I know. And they have like four number one overall picks.

And then they stupidly traded one of them who's awesome though. Yeah. I don't feel bad for Edmonton at all. I feel bad for Buffalo. Yeah, I feel bad for Buffalo. I at all I feel bad for Buffalo I feel bad for Buffalo I feel like they I feel like I wrote stories at the beginning of the Grantland

years kind of like okay they're turning the corner here we go and now that's six years ago seven years ago and every year it's just kind of like the same old story. I mean, I think they finally, you know,

it's like, yeah, they have another great draft pick this year and are, you know, kind of supposed to get this generational defenseman, but it's like, he's going to injure his foot on day one or something. Like there's, something's going to go wrong for them. Right. Last question.

This is your first hockey playoffs after having carried two children and then being in charge of them is physically and emotionally. Is it is the overtime playoff hockey game rougher for you now or just you're in such shock all the time? It's actually easier to deal with. So two things. One is that like time has sort of ceased to exist for me. I never know what day it is, what time it is, day or night.

So these long overtime games are just kind of on a different plane of existence that I can kind of just go along with. But I will say, I think I tweeted this, I forget what game it was. Um, I think it was a Capitals game though. My, my son, my older son is at the age where he is just such a parrot and he definitely screamed an F-bomb, um, through a mouthful of yogurt because his mother had just screamed an F-bomb herself. Uh, so, you know, I was pretty happy with kind of the trajectory he's on as a child and my parenting skills at that moment. I'm really happy to hear that.

I was worried the mountains and the whole ski lifestyle. I didn't know. I didn't know if it was going to affect you and if you weren't still swearing at the TV. But I'm glad to hear that. I will say, speaking of the ski lifestyle, props to the number of San Jose Sharks jerseys I see on the mountain. It just, it makes me happy. I love a good teal and black Sharks jersey,

you know, on the Squaw Valley Mountain. It's kind of the ultimate in California hockey, so. Yeah, that really does sound like it. Bakes, This was fun. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for the update. Talk to you soon.

All right. We're going to call Lindsay Zolatz to talk about Kanye West, Childish Gambino and more. But first introducing Control GX, the first gray reducing shampoo from Just For Men. Just For Men helps men look their best so they can celebrate who they are, what they achieve, how they feel. They relentlessly innovate and deliver smart hair care technology that does the work for you, making it radically easy to get the natural look you want, reducing your gray. It's as easy as washing your hair with Control GX.

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Visit ControlGX.com. Use promo code REGROWTH25 to get 25% off your purchase. That's ControlGx.com. Use promo code regrowth25 for 25% off. All right, we are calling Lindsay Zolatz, who is in New York City. Some dramatic stuff happening in pop culture circles. Kanye West, who had the title for years and years as our most kind of creative music slash other stuff artist. His crown has been challenged by the one and only Donald Glover.

Lindsay Zolad is one of our talented writers at The Ringer. She's been monitoring this very carefully. Has the torch been passed? Was this a seminal weekend this weekend? You know, a lot went on this weekend. I can see why some people would think that. You know, a lane has been cleared. Kanye has sort of cleared the lane of, you know, a political artist and rapper with anything to say about America and race in America.

He just kind of gave that title away at the very least. And we're seeing, you know, Donald Glover kind of stepping into that role. I think it's maybe a little premature to fully like give him that title because I think he's like, he doesn't have the songs yet that Kanye has. I think he kind of may have released his

first great song this week. So I don't know. But I see why people would want to react to it that way. So I guess the way to think of it would be Atlanta is such a groundbreaking show and such an incredible show and one of my favorite shows of the decade that maybe that fills part of the void. Like if Kanye's music filled, that was like his a list thing or his a plus thing or his fastball, his number one pitch Atlanta is the number one pitch for Glover. But then on the side now has this music career, which he's had for a few years and it went dormant and now it's back.

That video he did, first of all, that's one of the best music videos I've ever seen. And probably the first one in a couple of years that I remember watching multiple times just because I wanted to pick up more stuff from it. And the statement that it made and the chances that it took, and I've just really never seen anything like that as a music video. And I can't remember the last time that format kind of inspired me.

What did you think? What was your reaction? I think it's incredibly powerful. It's just a masterful music video. And I think an interesting thing to keep in mind in that conversation is Kanye's videos usually suck. Like he's pretty bad at music videos. And that's kind of one area where I think Childish Gambino as like a visual artist and the aesthetic that he's developed working on Atlanta feels more fully formed

than kind of the visual idea of Kanye, which has never really been, like I think Runaway is maybe his one solid video, but the rest of them not so much. Yeah, Runaway's a good video. Yeah. It's very good. But I don't know.

I think that Kanye kind of still has just the music feels more developed and he just has more of a catalog to pull from. But I'm kind of more interested in Donald Glover as like a visual artist and this kind of meta celebrity who's talking about his fame while he's getting more famous. And I love that the more famous, especially in these like white mainstream while he's getting more famous. And I love that the more famous, especially in these like white mainstream spaces he's getting, the more he's making people uncomfortable with the idea of his fame.

And that's a lot of what this video is about and what made it such a pointed statement that he released it while he was hosting SNL. And in some ways getting, you know, one of the biggest stages of his career, then putting out probably the most confrontational piece of work he's ever done simultaneously. I just thought that was very cool and very provocative. Well, the music, I think Kendrick has challenged Kanye in that front the last couple of years. For sure. And if anything, has probably taken the title from him to some degree.

But artists aren't meant to have the title for 12 years or 13 years or 14 years. After a while, people get picked apart. They run out of ways to kind of keep challenging themselves. They get creative in the wrong ways. And I think it's just hard to keep it going like that. But the, I, if anybody was going to take the title from him, it had to be a combination of people in a way. So you have Kendrick where the musically has taken the title from him and

then Glover just with, with the creativity and just the, I don't know what this guy's doing next and how does he do this? And, oh my God, I can't believe that dude's brain works like that. Those are the kinds of things he's triggering for me. You know, I watched, even on SNL, I thought he was, the sketches could have been a little funnier,

but I thought he was amazing. And I thought the Friendo skit was one of the, that was one of my favorite things that they've done in a couple of years. And it was the Friendo skit was one of the, that was one of my favorite things that they've done in a couple of years. And it was definitely a memorable episode, you know, and then combined with the video, which is now at 37 million and Atlanta's, I think the season ender is this week. And it just feels like he's having like a real, real, real moment here. Yeah. How do you feel about his music were you into the performances on snl or not as much i thought they were compelling i don't i don't obviously he's not

the same musician that kanye is but something about um the way he puts it all together you just kind of watch the whole time and it's it's it's for me, it was, it was like, I think I'm enjoying this, but I'm more like, I'm more enjoying how weird this is. I like the first song more than the second song, but he's definitely unique. Right. Yeah.

I actually liked the second song more than the first one. So which one was, which one was, which, which, which one did you play first? I can't remember. I think the second one was the,

this is America. Yeah. Yeah. That yeah, that was the one I liked more Yeah, yeah, you're right I think he can be confrontational and provocative in that way and kind of do it with a creepy smile that just casts this irony over the whole thing and that's where he's working best

and I think it's just an interesting part of him that there's this other side of him that wants to be this very earnest like R&B artist and just have like you know like a summer jam and even those songs felt like I understood the visual component and the vision of you experienced that as Zoe Kravitz in the beginning introducing him and sitting down. It all felt really deliberate

from a visual standpoint. I'm just not totally sold on the music being there yet. But I think I'm okay with that too right now. And by the way, it might never get there because it is the second best thing that he does, right? I would say the first best thing he does is create TV and movie stuff. And then on the side, he's also doing this, but has managed to

carve out his own territory. Totally. And within the TV and movie stuff, he's doing multiple things too. He's acting, he's writing, he's directing. He's kind of just you know, as, as a lot of people have because of what he met. And I think he means something different to really everybody and, uh, and to watch it kind of unravel. And, and by the way, not a recent thing with the unraveling, I think it's been maybe a five-year thing and he's had some, some good, some good stretches during that five years but for the most part it's been pretty crazy and uh and then it really fell apart to the point where you know it just seems like it's over and he could rally back we've seen musicians rally back

but for the most part he's kind of kind of his platform has been tarnished. And I don't know how you get that back. Yeah, it's strange that the conversation, the tone of it almost feels like you're reading his obituary or something. I finally read the Ta-Nehisi Coates essay this morning and a couple other things that had been published. At least there's been some very good writing about the epic failure of Kanye in the past week.

But yeah, it's like there's like an elegy quality to the way people are talking about him. Like there's no coming back from this and just that some idea of what we had of him is over. And it's sad. It's just been really a bummer to watch all this unfold. Well, you wrote, I'm going to say it was, I forget what point in 2016, but you wrote for us about going to his shows and about the rants that he would do. And he was always crazy and he would always go off the rails,

but we were always on his side with it. And even in his concerts, when he would do these 10-minute soliloquies or whatever, that turned into kind of a thing, but people felt like it was reasonably adorable. It was like, oh, here goes Kanye again. Oh boy, here we go. And it wasn't much different

than what Bruce Springsteen would do way back in the day when you go see springsteen they'd be like going to this eight minute story about something or even you two at their heyday bono would always at some point go off the rails with some long monologue and it was just part of part of going to the concert it was like oh here's the part where bono goes off the rails um yeah but it was never never a bad thing and it was kind of amusing and especially's the part where Bono goes off the rails. But it was never a bad thing. And it was kind of amusing. And especially in the internet era, people were carving it up and having fun with it and running their transcripts and all that stuff.

But the seeds were also there for what's happened the last few weeks to happen, I think. Especially when you look back and you go, oh, man. He was always teetering on the line of this might end up going badly. And then now we're here, unfortunately. But what would it be like going to a concert? Like he's got a tour, I think. Would you want to go to a tour of his? What would be the mindset going in?

What would that be like? Yeah, I don't know. There's so many question marks ahead with him. I don't know what this's so many question marks ahead with him. I don't know what this album rollout looks like. I feel exhausted thinking about the fact that we still have like a month before this record comes out and just feels like so many more things could happen between now and then. Yeah, I think it's just a really big question mark about what the music is going to be like. Is it going to be like these two

songs, if we want to call them that, that he put out in the past couple of weeks? Is it going to be just a total left turn? Like, I have no idea, but I don't feel optimistic about any of it, really. I think it's really hard to make relevant music for more than eight to 10 years. We even saw this with Timberlake in his last album. And Timberlake really, if he was an athlete, you would say his apex was like the 06, 07 range when he had that iconic album come out. He does the Barry Gibbs show with Fallon on SNL. And that was kind of his apex. But then you're able to extend that.

And I remember I was at one of the Super Bowls, like 2013, when the album that had Ty was coming out. People were fired up. It's like, JT's back. And now it's 2018. And he has this album. And he tries this Man in the Woods thing and does all these kind of quote unquote risky stuff with it.

But the reality is there was no hit song in the album and it always comes back to, is there a hit song? You know, like the red chili, red hot chili peppers were dead. And then all of a sudden they had the Californication album and then the album after that, which had some, and it was like those albums had good songs on it. It was like, here they are, they're back. And that's why with Kanye, I just feel like if he has one great song, I do feel like he could kind of overcome this because people always forgive anything when there's a good song. What do you think yeah i well i watched um most of the charlemagne interview that he did which

um i don't recommend watching as much of it as i did because it's like two hours long and it is yeah an endurance test um but he talks about i think i didn't realize until watching that how disappointed he was that there wasn't a big radio single off Life of Pablo, which I think that was a record that just was talked about totally divorced from like radio and Grammys and the really traditional signposts of what is a hit that he still pays attention to. And he just seems really kind of hurt and that people didn't play those songs on the radio, even though there is not a song on that record that really stands out of like, oh yeah, this, you can hear this as the hit, like maybe famous, but that didn't really take off in kind of a mainstream way, even though I still

really do like that song. So I think he's there too. He of um pays more attention than a lot of people do these days to those really like almost old-fashioned markers of what is a hit um what does it mean to be influential um do you have to win the awards and be on the radio and kind of reach that mass audience so I don't think he's connected I I mean, the past two records he's done haven't really had that radio hit, but they've had more buzz and kind of critical acclaim. But I think he wants to get back to that populist moment. And that's in all of his, you know,

however well-intentioned his ideas about bringing people together are and free thought and stuff. I think he wants that mass appeal again. I just don't think he's going about it the right way at all. I got to say, Famous is one of my five or six favorite Kanye songs. It's so good. I think that song's amazing. And I honestly think the only reason that song didn't take off was because of the controversy with it. I really do. I think, I think he inadvertently sabotaged and submarine that song from becoming a hit because the Taylor Swift part of it, which is harsh every time you listen to it. Um, I think it really detracted from the

ability of that song to take off. And it's weird because sometimes a controversy really helps a song. But I think if you just, if you listen, by the way, that song's on my daughter's get fired up for a soccer game list. So I've listened to it a lot. That song's really good and has some different moves a couple of different ways. And I think it's up there with some of his best stuff. But I wonder if that's what makes him mad where he like, he knows that one should have been something and it wasn't, he's like, I can't win. He almost, you know,

not to bring it into sports again, but you know, it feels like one of those athletes that just can't get respect. Maybe, I don't know. Probably. Yeah. Cause that felt like one of the first times too, that the controversy did not benefit him, you know, like in almost every other way, even when it's Obama calling him a jackass or something like he gets, there was more attention on him for that and kind of people defending him no matter what and I think you're right like something about the famous episode and and Taylor Swift reacting the way that she did that just soured a lot of people on that whole thing it felt like a lot and people weren't willing I think and

now what he's doing like people just aren't willing to overlook certain things in the way that they used to be. It's tough. This is a tough year for Kanye fans. It really is. And I think that's why so much good writing and so many interesting takes have come from it. I thought the Coates thing was really fascinating. And his take on what fame can do to people, I think, is a really important take. And I think there's a reason that we've seen so many child actors and musicians just get derailed that hit it maybe a little too early or hit it in a way that was almost impossible to deal with.

That's why even somebody like Justin Timberlake, I think is more of a rarity. When you think like he was famous when he was a kid and then became famous again as a young adult and then was in the most publicized relationship of, or one of them of the early 2000s and seems like he's relatively normal and stable. I don't think that's a usual thing. I grew up with just Michael Jackson losing his mind over the course of 12 years. It clearly was because of when he became famous and just how weird his life was. I think we forget that stuff. Kendrick just seems like he's just kind of over here. He does this thing.

He's not caught up in any of that. Kind of willingly avoids it in a way. And maybe that's going to be better for him for the long run. Yeah, he hasn't even publicly bragged about winning a Pulitzer, too. Can you imagine if Kanye won one? Oh, my God. I don't think Kendrick's said anything publicly, though, since then, which is the ultimate flex

like he doesn't even have to talk about it yeah he's just in his own corner you're right just taking it in and that probably you know Kanye is always going to be the opposite of that he can't he doesn't know when to exit the conversation

I talked on a podcast I forget who it was with maybe like 8-9 months ago about, you know, all the stuff happening in America and when was it going to really trickle into music in a significant way, you know? And I think in some cases it was like for Kendrick, it was bad luck because a lot of what was in his album right before Trump got elected, he could have just released that album and done a couple of minor tweaks and it would have had infinitely more impact post-Trump. But for the most part, like, you know, 70s, Vietnam War, Nixon, all that stuff. And the music really reflected the times that some of the best songs were about, you know, dissatisfied youth and people dying overseas.

And it just really fueled some great art. Are we starting to see the seeds of that now post-Trump with something like that Childish Can Be Nothing this weekend? Maybe. I don't think it's going to come from Kanye, though, judging by the two songs that he put out. No. No. it's going to come from Kanye though, judging by the two songs that he put out. No, no, just objectively not good. Yeah. You properly skewered those songs. You properly skewered those songs in the ringer last week, but some of the other artists, I mean, we might,

we might have some moments here. And I think this, this music video that it was been up for two days that as we're taping this or three days, two and a half days. It's got 37 million views on YouTube already. You know, that feels like something. Yeah. And I think too, like we were saying at the top, Childish Gambino has kind of struggled to find what his voice is and what that project means,

aside from the other things that Donald Glover does. He's kind of, there's been different mutations of that project. And he started out just kind of this hashtag rapper and then morphed into this full-fledged R&B guy. And now I think this lane of being really politically confrontational and whatever he's doing right now, it's working. And I think it has people paying attention to his music more primarily than they had in the past.

So I'm all for it. What do you think Disney thinks with this solo movie coming up? You think they're like, hey, I don't know. Can you scale back just like 10%, please? Yeah, like was there a call this week maybe i don't know but i love like i said i love what he's doing with just making the mass audience kind of uncomfortable and a little squirmy and because there's nobody else really doing that to that extent right now in the, who's really rising to that occasion and not, you know, he's

not, it's very brave what he's doing in a way. Like he's not shying away from throwing stuff back at people's faces at the moment that he, you know, could really level up. Well, he's also, he has the critical gravitas to pull it off too, from all the other choices he made, which I think is an important piece of this. I don't think a lot of artists could have pulled out that music video and done it at the level he did it. And, you know, it crosses a couple of lines. There's no question, but he had earned the right to cross some lines. And I don't know if there's a lot of people out there that might've done that. I'm just amazed. Like, you know, when I was a kid,

Belushi and Akira, they did the blues brothers. They were on SNL, which was the biggest show in 78 or whatever, 79. They had an album that I think was number one at one point. And then they had that blues brothers movie or their animal house and blues Blues Brothers and Belushi at one point had the number one movie. He was the number one TV show and he had the number one album all at the same time. And I

don't feel like that's ever happening again. But what Glover is doing right now, Solo will be the number one movie. Atlanta will never be the top TV show, but it's certainly one of the two or three most critically acclaimed shows of this year. And then, you know, his music and the video and hosting SNL, like it's really rare to put all that stuff together in the same year. I really admire that dude. Yeah. Any other, who else has childish Gambino potential this year?

Anybody? I mean, there's a new Drake album. I guess we have to mention that. But yeah, I don't know. I'm curious to see how that unfolds. Like that feels kind of beside the point right now. I don't know. And I don't know if it's because we're kind

of looking to these political conversations right now and i don't think drake is an artist that is ever going to give that now he's more like out to give people a good time and forget about what's going on in the larger i'm curious to see how he sits in a moment like this and if he does and where he fits in. Yeah, I don't know, but I I'm pleased with the developments from Childish Gambino. How much of the Sixers Celtics series have you watched? Oh, all of it.

Yeah. So I was in, I went to the Sixers game last night and it's a great crowd and they get super edgy and pissed off pretty quickly. I was impressed. It reminded me of a Boston crowd. There was a lot of testosterone in the building. As much as we don't want to admit there are similarities there.

I think there are a lot. But yeah, Saturday was a heartbreaking moment. Yeah. The confetti game. The confetti metaphor was like, it felt like a metaphor larger than itself. You know, the confetti falling, the premature victory. And I really thought it was a three too.

I thought he had it. And, you know, the 10 minutes where they had to sweep up the confetti is, there's a lot to say there. I feel safe predicting that we'll never see confetti at another Philadelphia 76ers game. I think they have moved on from the confetti. It'll always be too soon, no matter how.

I'm in Boston right now, and believe me, I do not feel like the Celtics have won the series yet. I feel like there could be more basketball. Your favorite. I would love that to happen. Yeah. You're an Eagles fan too, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So we're just, we're riding high this year. I was so psyched yesterday going to the Celtic game and all the parks are near each other and drove by the football stadium to get to the basketball stadium. And there was a big Eagle Super Bowl champion banner. It was like a gut punch. I was like, oh, no, I just wasn't ready for it emotionally.

I'm still, I'm still coming to grips with the Super Bowl, but, uh, it's still so present to like, anytime I've gone to the Philly area the past couple of months it's just like everybody's still wearing the jerseys I got my Super Bowl champs t-shirt that I bought at the train station yeah just yeah you can see it wearing that on Saturday but didn't work you could see in the airports I remember when the Pats won their first Super Bowl it was the same thing in Boston the whole city felt like it transformed for like three months. Everybody was actually tangibly happier. Like you could feel it.

And it just stayed that way. It's still going on there. So I think somehow that energy has like carried the Sixers farther than we thought they were going to get this year. So I'll take it. Well, I'm not congratulating you on the Eagles and I'll give you a mild congratulation on an incredible Sixers run,

but that's it. Lindsay Zoletz, what are you writing? What's coming up next for you? Oh, man. I am working on something that will probably be on the ringer by the time this airs. I'm profiling Stephen Malcomus from Pavement, which was like a true dream come true.

Wow, Pavement. To hang out with him. It was really fun true dream come true. Wow. Hang out with him. It was really fun. That's exciting. Now we're talking my area. Yeah. Yeah. There you go.

Yeah. Excellent. All right, Lindsay, thank you for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Bye.

All right. Thanks so much to Katie Bakes. Thanks to Alison Herman. Thanks to Lindsay Zoladz. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, our presenting sponsor. Go to ZipRecruiter.com to check them out. Thanks to Allison Herman. Thanks to Lindsay Zoladz. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, our presenting sponsor. Go to ZipRecruiter.com to check them out. Thanks to Gillette.

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for a bunch of new stuff about the basketball playoffs, music, Lindsay Zolad's pavement thing that's coming up. I can't wait to read that. Everything we got going there and the Ringer Podcast Network,

which is booming as always. Ringer NBA, Dave Chang, Against All Odds with Cousin Sal. They'll have some gambling picks for you this week. House of Carbs, The Watch, Binge Mode, Shaq House, Ringer NFL, The Masked Man. I could keep going and going. Check all that out. Channel 33 Press Box, talking about Peter King leaving Sports Illustrated, which happened since I did the last podcast.

Best of luck to him. Would love to have him come on sometime. Yeah, I thought he had an incredible 29-year run. Hugely influential and inspiration for this guy and many others. Anyway, congrats to him. Good luck with the new gig, Peter King. And we will talk to you tomorrow on the BS Podcast. On the wayside I'm a bruised son I never was And I don't have

To ever forget