The Bill Simmons Podcast - Portland's Rise, NBA Finals Sleepers, and UMBC vs. Tyson (Ep. 341)

Episode Date: March 19, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Trail Blazers's quest to conquer the Western Conference (03:45), the baggage that could hold back the Rockets (24:00), the Russell Westbrook conundrum (38:00), the insignificance of the triple-double (48:30), the Rookie of the Year race between Ben Simmons and Donovan Mitchell (50:45), Brad Stevens and the struggling Celtics (57:45), the Boston sports radio scene (01:09:45), and ranking UMBC's win over Virginia among the greatest upsets of all time (01:19:00). Read "Four Big Questions for the Thunder" by Kevin O'Connor here: https://t.co/jIxZTu6PCO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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But first, Pearl Jam. On the line right now, my old friend, my old ESPN teammate, my future friend in LA if he ever actually moves here, Ryan Rosillo. Lots going on. This is your time. College basketball, March Madness, draft prospects, NBA playoffs heating up, hot NBA award takes. I'm ready. This is it. Let's do it.

I don't even know where to start. I want to start because I feel like I get so excited to come on that, you know, as a talk show guy that doesn't do a talk show, I can get really long winded. But you're so excited about what you saw last night that I almost feel like I should just sit back and let you start. Okay. I went to a Portland Clippers game last night. I went for a couple reasons. One, this Clippers team is actually weirdly fun to watch, but both on TV and in person. They play really hard.

They're not that good, but I kind of enjoy everyone on the team. They're not very good defensively, but just a bunch of guys who actually give a shit. And then I really wanted to see Portland and most specifically wanted to see Dame Lillard, because I think there's, as we talked about last week, a really strong first team all NBA case that's brewing for him. So I go to this game and by the end of it, I'm like, what are the odds for Portland to win the title? Because you know I love to overreact, Rosillo.

But go. You sent me a very passionate late night email. Yeah. I'm like, oh no. Yeah, so I checked online and they were 100 to 1 to win the title. That's insane. They're the fourth best team in the league.

So needless to say, I might have stepped in. But here's the case for Portland. And I'll let you make fun of me in 25 seconds. The case for Portland is this. It's a guards league. This is the decade where the NBA became a

guards league. They have one of the three best backcourts in the league, as well as somebody who has proven now for three, four months in a row. It's a little like what happened with Isaiah Thomas last year has just become a closer in Lillard. And it's a weird team with a lot of unconventional pieces, but anytime you're one of the four best teams in the league, it's not inconceivable. You can make the finals and potentially win the title. 101 is crazy to me. I think they should be like 40-1,

31, whatever. And so I put a little down. Now, alright, make fun of me. Well, putting money down on 101, like, go for it. Although, I love when I have a buddy who has to be like, you know, I had UMBC, the money line against Virginia.

I'm like, well, that means you've had 100 other terrible bets on the money line, to be like, you know, I had UMBC, the money line against Virginia. I'm like, well, that means you've had a hundred other terrible bets on the money line too. So, you know, like, congrats. Congrats on the return on that one. I felt like, so these are two different things. Like, you want to go ahead and put money on it. And that number should be different. But that number also tells you that it's almost like no one's taking anything seriously until, you know, we see what happens with Golden State and Houston. Yeah, but is that a mistake, though? Is it a mistake to just say these two teams are making or one of those two teams is in the West or both those teams are in the Western Finals?

One of those two teams is making the finals and winning the title. And it seems like we've all just kind of given up on any other possibility. And I don't, I think with the way basketball is played now, I think that's a slight mistake. I really do. Oh, it's a mistake too. Not even just in the way basketball is played. But like how many times in sports do we have to have this happen to us? Yeah. We rarely, unless you're with the team or you were so plugged in with the team,

like we never really see the ending and then it happens and we're like, well, what was wrong with the L or you are so plugged in with the team, we never really see the ending. And then it happens. And we're like, well, what was wrong with the Lakers against the Pistons? And everybody, if you ever talk to Chonky about it or any of those guys, you're like, how are we just like, we're like, oh, the Lakers will just sweep them. And then you go, no, the Lakers thing is over. So it's always over before most of us ever realize it's over. So I'm always open to the Golden State thing at some point will end

and it'll end in a surprising fashion and then we'll hear, you know, a lot of those guys get kind of sick of each other, even though, you know, I think collectively they have this great group of personalities

that's almost possible to put together on an NBA team to have that many guys that are like, you know what, I think I like everybody here. But when they lose before they're supposed to lose, we'll go, you know,

how did we never see this coming? The difference is, okay, is it Houston with their style, which after watching them in person again, and, you know, I watch them a lot, they don't run a lot of stuff. It's not really complicated. And I think the way Golden State switches and all that kind of stuff,

like I still think Golden State, Houston, both healthy, and I do think Golden State's just kind of doing this little rest thing. You know, people I'm talking to, there's not a ton of concern about any of the injuries to any of those guys. I don't really feel like Houston is that threat to Golden State. So then you start going further down the list. Every time, Bill, I look at the West standings, I go,

is there another league that they're playing against where no one in the top six loses? Those teams never lose. league that they're playing against where no one in the top six loses, those teams never lose. I think at one point you had 40-something wins with a handful of losses among those four teams in the West. So if this is just

about anyone, granted we can go in a million different directions, looking at Portland, looking at Portland going from, okay, we'll be in the bottom half of the Western Conference, we'll get our asses kicked, yeah, we'll be in the bottom half of the Western Conference. We'll get our asses kicked. Yeah, we have these two great guards. Whatever. We'll see what the deal is.

They were, with Cleveland, the two worst defensive teams in the playoffs last year. This year, after the All-Star break, and I went and looked at it after your very passionate email, they're the second best team defensively since the All-Star break. That's behind Utah. Utah's defensive numbers are just historic. Yeah, Utah's another one. And then you have Anthony Davis doing his thing with the Pelicans. But the thing with

Portland that'd be so unique in this league is that it's basically the same team. So now this team, did they just grow up? Did the light go off? They figure it out? Or now they're good defensively, even though that backcourt's number one you thought were going to be good defensively?

Or is Lillard kind of going through that? And you'll get this reference, that Glenn Rice run. And I'm not saying Lillard is Glenn Rice, but Glenn Rice for like a month felt like he was getting 40 every night. Yeah, I think that's been three months for him. But we saw it last year with Isaiah.

I think perimeter guys have a year where they just go up a level. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, so it's this crazy run where you go, okay, can this guy take out one of those other teams? And it's not like those teams in Houston, Golden State, or Badger. They're great. Houston's been a big, big team, you know, in love with what they're doing for three,

but it's not just, hey, are they average? Can they passable defensively? Like, Houston's been pretty good defensively this year. So that, I think, is the most shocking development with the whole Portland thing, is it's the same group that you would have never even asked this question about, and now, like, yeah, you've got to be thinking,

but I don't think it's, yeah. Well, it's the same group, but a couple of things are different. I think the team makes sense when you watch them in paper, they got a lot of weird unconventional players, even somebody like Evan Turner that depending on the team, he can either seem like a huge asset or nobody knows what to do with them. But Portland's figured out kind of how to maximize whatever he is on that team. Cause it's hard. Cause the two guards need the ball, but Portland's figured out kind of how to maximize whatever he is on that team

because it's hard because the two guards need the ball. But they have these interchangeable big guys. Their forwards, I think, are the thing I would worry about in a series, but I keep coming back to the guards. And when you have two guards that combined in a series can go for like 55 and make 12 threes or 10 threes or whatever and get to the line. Both those guys get to the line too. I think he's at like seven free throws a game this year for a little guy.

It's pretty good. We've seen the recipe for this. So I went back. I don't know. Yeah, you remember this team, the 1990 Phoenix Suns. Remember that team? Hornacek. Well, that Hornacek, KJ was, was there. I mean, that was,

it was the year it was the year KJ made a leap. They had Hornacek. They still had Tom Chambers. They had Dan Marley. And when they got to the playoffs, all of a sudden they got hot. And Horn is second. And KJ kind of took off. Chambers was playing well. And they ended up, they beat the Lakers. And they, I'm sorry, they beat, who'd they beat?

Yeah, they beat the Lakers in the semifinals. They took down Magic. And then they lost to Portland in the Western Finals. And as it was happening, people were like, what the hell is going on right now? The thing is, especially with the way basketball is played now with all the threes, I think we're more likely to see weird NBA upsets. I didn't used to feel that way. I always felt like in a seven-game series, the right team could win.

So let's say round two, let's say they get to round two, they're playing golden state. And I think golden state should beat them 19 out of 20 times, but you know, golden state has shown that, especially this is four straight finals for them. Potentially we've seen a lot of teams over the years that in that fourth year of that nine month grind year after year after year that they, they wear down, you have an injury at the wrong time. You have an on off switch that all of a sudden isn't flicking on and you fall down to, you know, it's two, two after four, then you blow game five. All of a sudden you have to go back to Portland for game six. My point is I,

I thought as recently as two months ago that it was just Golden State, Houston, screw everybody else. Nobody else has a chance. But now you look at the West, Portland's a tough out. You should be able to beat them, but they're still going to make you work and they still have guards who are going to be your real asset in a playoff series. OKC is starting to play well. Kevin O'Connor wrote about them today. Westbrook just destroyed Toronto last night in a really convincing. Yeah, I watched that this morning. And then Utah has won like 21 of their last 23 and might be the best defensive team in the league.

So are you committed to Golden State-Houston in the West finals or have you at least opened the door for somebody else? I am committed to else? I am committed to it. I am committed and there are two reasons and it's funny too because remember how mad everybody was? They're like, oh, it's just going to be Golden State Cleveland again. And based on what Cleveland has been and

some of its injuries, some of it's just again a terrible defensive team, even worse than the team we were concerned about last year. And bad guards. Their guards are just awful. It's so hard now in the staying age to And bad guards. Their guards are just awful. It's so hard now in this day and age to have bad guards and compete at a high level. And then

you have, you know, Houston, it's just funny, like we might not get what everybody wanted. How many times does this have to happen to us where we go, oh, this is stupid. This is what's going to happen. And then it doesn't happen. And I know you're pushing for that. But this Houston thing is still new.

And I think in the NBA, when you build a team and it's new, and I'm not saying their approach, I'm not saying it's necessarily hard to do, but the way they've fine-tuned this whole thing and the way they've used Chris Paul, which is just funny that it took until like 2017, 18 for somebody to go, hey, maybe we should just stagger and always have one of the top 10 players out there at the same time. Like we are, we should, we should,

we should just make sure that like when Chris and Harden are separated, we start with them and then we close with them and then make sure in between one of those guys is on the floor the whole time. Remember Scotty Brooks, Scotty Brooks at OKC just refusing to do that for five years. Yeah. He could, I know I heard that those guys didn't necessarily like it, and that could have been, you know, one of those two.

But you're right. Like, they never would stagger Durant and Westbrook ever. And I think even Durant had something where he would play like the first 12 and then the first two of the second quarter.

And I could be screwing that up because that's always kind of fascinating if you dig into that stuff. But, you know, Portland's got those two guys, and they're shooting 40% on 16 threes a game. Harkless hasn't missed. I am a little worried that Harkless will stop shooting threes again

because he's at that roster bonus of a half a million dollars if he stays over 35%, but he's still shooting. Amino and Harkless are guys that can switch, which is what this league seems to be looking for constantly, is like how do we find those guys that will switch? But the reason I can't get off of Houston is that I still think it's this, it's new enough with Paul and as good as it's looked, and they're winning 80% of their games,

that there's going to be a new level of motivation. Well, not a new, but like a fresh level of motivation for them, especially with how bad it ended in that San Antonio series last year and how bad that was for Hart to close it. So he should, I mean, if you get any competitive juices and you have to think you pissed off at the world and wanted to do better than you did that time. And then it's Golden State where even though, and I talked to Bob Myers about this on my show and I said, I watch you guys religiously, like I still love watching you, but I feel like there's a slight edge that's missing. And I i'm not repeating this and said this i don't know i don't think i said this to you last

time i was on maybe i did but i'll just make it quick i had the same conversation with him and he he's very candid he's like yeah i wish we had more yeah but he goes hey ryan if you and i were like okay lifelong dream we're gonna hike everest together like we would be thrilled we would you know like this would be this unbelievable thing. And if you made it to the peak, you'd be crying. You'd be emotional. I'm like, maybe you'd cry. No, I'm just kidding.

Anyway, so I'm like, you know, you just, you do this thing and it's like, oh my God, my life. Like I did this thing. And then if I called you the next year and said, hey, let's hike Everest again. It could be fun and you'd want to do it, but it just couldn't possibly be the same. Yeah, but hold on. You just made the case against the Warriors. This is why I am not penciling them in because they have been so candid

since October. And I've said this, I think Steve Kerr made a mistake with how he handled it. I think from the get-go, he talked about how hard this was going to be and the grind, and I was there, and I know what this is like. It's like he gave his guys a little bit of an excuse to roll over some of these nights. They've lost way more games than they should have lost considering the players they have, in my opinion.

This team should be 70-12 every year minimum, and they just blow dumb games. But they're not. They're not going to be. I mean, I've never seen a team this good be this bored. They were bored in games in the previous three runs. I remember just watching them going, you guys just humiliate your opponents in such a way that you find it boring. And so I'm sure that those four guys are thinking, oh, whatever, I'll just get to the playoffs again.

It'll be the fourth straight year. That's dangerous. I'm telling you, that's a dangerous thing to do. When I had Bosh on a couple weeks ago, and he was fantastic, but we talked about he felt like the team peaked with that win streak they had and that they were never really the same after that streak and they were so locked in. You could almost

say the same thing about the Warriors. That streak they had the year after they won the title when they were just going balls to the wall every game, we've never been able to see them do that again. I think it's crazy that a team that has KD and Curry healthy, although Curry's not healthy right now,

but it's crazy that those guys haven't ripped off like a 22 gamer. It's insane that those two guys are in the same teams in their primes. Like they should be destroying everybody. I do think win streaks are totally overrated. I think they're fun, but I think they're overrated. Why do you think they're overrated? That's interesting. Why? Because there's these teams where you go, like, in the midst of their winning streak,

you know, lost win streak at the beginning of this year. And you go, oh, my God, you know, like, what's happening here? And then you go, I don't know. There's, like, three games in there that were insane to be even won. Yeah, true. So does it mean that they're that much better than the league? Or is it just kind of like a fun thing that you're paying attention to? Like, true. So does it mean that they're that much better than the league? Or is it just kind of like a fun thing that you're paying attention to?

Like, okay, what does this mean? And then, you know, Houston's had these long winning streaks. You go, okay, does this mean that they're now the best team in the league? You go, well, yeah.

I mean, it's a really impressive thing to do. It's hard to win that many games. You know, there's usually a night where like, I just don't feel like doing it. Veteran guys. Well, so,

can I make a counter? So, I think it's really hard to win 15 or 16 straight in that range. And you're right there. After that, there is some luck that goes to it. But at some point when you've won like nine or 10 or people start talking about it and a team's natural protective instincts kick in.

And you saw that happen with the Celtics. Like they pulled, pulled, I forget how many games that ended up going, but they were pulling wins out of their ass by then, but they were really playing hard and trying to keep it. And that's what I loved about the Miami win streak. That's what I loved about the Warriors win streak.

I love the T-Mac 22. When I was a kid, I think the Celtics won like 18 straight, I think in the 81, 82 season. I do think it does say something about the character of a team to some degree. I think that matters. The other thing I always look at is just how often are you up by 15 to 20? Like you watch Houston this year. It's like you turn on their game, it's like 63 to 38 in the second quarter.

Look at last night. They had 80. They had almost, I mean, I can't believe how many 70-point halves I'll be just downstairs watching games. I'm like, oh, we're going to 70? We're getting 70 again in this one? And then last night, it's almost 80 with Houston. And then it was sort of close

because you're just not going to have a foot on the gas pedal. I think they had 22 in the fourth quarter. But okay, so we're saying all these things about Golden State, and we're in agreement that when you watch this, there doesn't seem to be that edge. And yes, with Curry and Durant in their this, there doesn't seem to be that edge and that yes, with Curry and Durant in their peak, like maybe we want it to be more dominant in the way we talk about them,

but they are having said all of these things, you know, I'll make a Pat's analogy for you here in a second. There are three games off of the Rockets pace here when the Rockets have won 80% of their game, but we're really that bad. You know, if it were really so glaring, I think what we're doing

is we're grading them on such a ridiculous scale that maybe we're talking ourselves out of them. And it's, it's kind of gets back to the whole Patriots thing at that. Yeah. I think some of that Patriots rumbling stuff is a little true, but, but tell me it matters if they go eight and eight with Brady, you know, then I'll, then I'll believe that, okay, this is irreparable. You know, we talk about these teams and turmoil and the noise and oh, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on.

And, you know, like, don't tell me the Pats that the noise caught up to them and they fell flat when they lost to the Eagles in the Super Bowl. Tell me when they go eight and eight. And that's, you know,

if Golden State were the fourth seed, okay, let's talk about this. Can they turn it on? Yeah, they're still going to turn it on because they look different, but it's not like it's gone that bad. I think what's scary to – so there's a case for each team for and against. I mean, we can both agree they're the two best teams in the league, and I don't think I'm breaking new ground by saying that.

Agreed. But there's a case to be made against both of these teams, and I'm going to give it to you right after the break. Greeny Tease! Oh my God. I'm not going anywhere. Thank you. Yeah, I know. Hey, I wear MeUndies every day to the point that my

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since the first one. They might've even had me stumbling through a read there in the first one. Anyway, it's a limited time offer. Start wearing the best underwear of your life. It changed my life. It changed my groin area. It's time to let MeUndies change yours. MeUndies.com slash BS. All right, we're back. So here's the case against each team. The Warriors, we talked about the on-off switch, and we talked about how that little tiny edge is missing. Just a little tiny, little like, why aren't they in fuck you mode a little more often? And I think that goes to Draymond. And I don't think he's totally the same guy that he was two years ago. And I don't think the Warriors think he is either.

I think he's 80% there, 90% there. There is not that alpha dog, mano a mano, macho, kind of crazed, whatever that he had going that really fueled them in a lot of ways. I don't see it night to night from him anymore. And I still think he's really good. I'm probably going to consider voting for him for third team All-NBA. But I just don't see it from him. So that would be my issue with them is who is going to provide that fuck you edge when they get to the playoffs. And then for Houston, it's the baggage, right? It's the James Harden playoff baggage.

It's the Chris Paul playoff baggage. And it's not like they're going to go into a series feeling the baggage. But where they'll feel it is if they're playing San Antonio in round one and Kawhi's back and people start running, people start running the popper inch versus the Antoni playoff stats. And all of a sudden San Antonio upsets them in game two. And all of a sudden it's, you know, it's they're, they're down three, one, or what all the bad things that can happen. As soon as there's a hint of, Oh, everyone's going to start writing about the playoff baggage. And you know

how sports works. The narratives start kind of overpowering a team after a while. And that would be my fear with them. I think when things go wrong, I want to see what happens with them. Can you imagine if you could get Daryl in an honest moment if they draw San Antonio in the 1-8 with a flyback? Pop is 6-0, right?

He's 6-0 against Mike D. The end of that series and that was kind of like i was i was texting with somebody last night about just how we talk about every one of these these stories in the tournament right and be like up umbc ran out of gas yeah like or they were a team that got smoked by albany by 40 you know right like the uva win is incredible it's an all-timer 116 sounds so much worse than when you're the two seed and you lose to 15 because it's never happened before. But you're telling me UMBC ran out of gas?

I swear, I don't think they scored for 15 minutes in the second half. Yeah, I would say they fell back to probably closer to what they were. I still love the team. Right. So when Golden State lost to the Cavs and they won 73, you know, the dopes that do what we do go, shouldn't have gone for a 73 win.

Like, is that what it is? No, that wasn't what it is. Was it Draymond getting suspended? No, it wasn't. It was LeBron. LeBron goaded Draymond into punching him in the balls and it changed the series and it's the greatest mind trick

anyone has ever pulled in an NBA playoffs. And on top of that, Superman and Superman, because I didn't want to disc Kyrie in that whole thing. Like the three games those guys put together to close that series, like to suggest that 73 wins, gotten ahead to those guys, like game five or game six. It just, it's not like, I don't buy that crap. So with Houston, you know, last year was, oh, you know, Harden wore down.

No, San Antonio wore him down. Like, that was an awful, awful game. And you're like, I would have to know Harden better personally. Like, is he the type of dude, if they're down 2-1 to San Antonio, where he starts going, oh, man, this again? Like, is he showing up to the arena going, is he thinking about the criticism if he loses? Because if that's how you're wired, then yeah, I do think that's a real thing.

Now, most people would disagree with me here and say like, oh, Paul's playoff baggage is far worse. Well, I think Chris Paul happens to be like one of those weird, just weird stories, weird NBA stories where he's incredible and it hasn't worked out for him in the playoffs, but I don't buy that he's the guy that's holding him back. And to just put up these graphics of how he doesn't get out of the second

round and ignoring the injuries that Clippers had had for the last five playoff series. I mean, the guy hit the game winner in what game seven against the Spurs a few years ago when Blake didn't want the ball and late possessions like that. That's a ballsy play. Like you don't, you don't make that play if you're just this totally different version of

yourself in the playoffs when all of his playoff numbers are good, but you're right. Like if it's weird and everybody goes up, Chris Paul, again, the Chris Paul factor, when every NBA GM would love to have Chris Paul, like it is,

it is something that like we'll obsess about it if they're down to San Antonio early. So I went, so last night at the game, one of the creators of a will and grace sits two rows behind me. David Cohen is who's a big sports fan. Picked up season three, I just saw that today.

Yeah, and we were making fun of him, like, just how he went back to the well in an unbelievable way and the whole thing. But we started talking about, I don't even know how it came up. I think we were talking about the Rockets and we were just talking about that Rockets Clippers game

from three years ago and just how unbelievable it was. And I find myself like... That's the worst. I know. Yeah, I find myself talking about that with people every so often. And like, you know, I've been to some great sporting events in my

life and I've never been to a game like that one that the game was over. Kevin McHale was going to get fired. James Harden was probably going to face a summer of you can't win with James Harden. He looked like he quit. And all of a sudden Josh Smith and Corey Brewer and all these random dudes brought them back and the crowd, they just quit. Oh, I remember why we started talking about it because we were just talking about whether it was ever going to happen for the Clippers just ever. And this one time where we started talking about it. We were just talking about whether it was ever going to happen for the Clippers, just ever. This one time where when that fell apart, when they're about to head to the next

round, and the crowd checked out in a way I've never seen before. I mean, I wasn't there for the Bartman game and some of the other times this happened. I've been to some Fenway Park games where that didn't have the same stakes, but you could just feel it when the crowd turns.

You just feel it. Yeah. You just kind of think it's the karma just shifts and it's unstoppable, but I've never felt anything like this Clipper game. And Chris Paul was the best guy in the team and he was healthy. And so was Blake in that series, you know? And I just wonder, I really wonder with Paul and Harden there's going to

be a moment in one of these playoff rounds where somebody throws some haymakers at them where the threes aren't going in where they're not getting calls we've seen Mike D in a lot of playoff situations that have gone south I just wonder and maybe this

is all bullshit and they're going to be fine and they'll win 16 playoff games and that's that. But I do kind of want to see it too, don't you? Well, of course I do. But, you know, you just, you just said bullshit and it's good because there are so many bullshit storylines in sports and they're bullshit for a long time until they're not bullshit. Like Dirk, soft. Yeah. Not tough for us. You you know you can't

whiny scratch him can't win a title with a big guy who can't play defense so then what happens he wins and they beat a heat team that everybody picked and it's like was everybody right or did he just win

and look sometimes that stuff is true. Sometimes that is who you are. I don't buy it with Chris Paul. Everybody thinks I'm nuts. That's fine. The Harden thing, I think, is a little bit more real. The weirdest thing about that comeback against the Clippers is that you could argue, like, at the time,

perception of Dwight Howard and Harden were two of the least mentally tough guys in the league. And they're the ones that pull that comeback off. And granted, you're right, it was more of the bench. But, like, that team, and then to continue out the rest of the least mentally tough guys in the league. And they're the ones that pull that comeback off. And granted, you're right, it was more of the bench. But that team, and then to continue out the rest of the series, you go, two dudes that would never back as the mental tough guys are going to take

Chris Paul out. And they did. Did you see the Rockets-Seltics game? No, I didn't. It was a Saturday night, and the Celtics should have won and blew it. But the thing that really stood out for me... Wait a minute, a week ago didn't. It was a Saturday night and the Celtics should have won and blew it. But the thing that really stood out for me. Wait a minute, a week ago?

No, I was like, yeah, it was like three Saturdays ago, two or three Saturdays ago. Oh yeah, no, I saw that one. Yeah. The Celtics had it. Yeah, they totally stink. They really missed the layup. But what really stood out for me was how hard the Rockets kept playing

and how locked in those dudes were and really were determined not to lose. And I think Ariza, who has had some, he's had an, I don't want to say an up and down career because he's been pretty consistently at least decent, but has had some good high moments. You know, he was great in the 09 finals. He's been on some good teams. And I think he's really tough and competitive. And he's the kind of guy that when you look at what they're built like in a

series with him and PJ Tucker, I think the nay is kind of like secretly a tough guy. CP is at least, you know, he's little man, Napoleon complex, but he's tough. And it seems like Harden's tougher than he used to be.

And it just, it really does feel like a different team, but that's why we had the playoffs, right? No, I agree with that. Like, you know, kind of your dream on thing where you go, you know, is it going to be as crazy? And I do think it'd be weird for him to not have that edge in the playoffs, but that's, that's the Matt Barnes theory.

Like if you're a GM and you look in your locker room and you go, I don't have one tough guy here. Like, I guess I'll sign Matt Barnes. Right. Can you knock somebody into the third row? But remember though, you remember the 05,

06, 07, 08 Pistons, which was a pretty good on off switch team. And they peaked from an intensity level in 04, and that's why they won the finals. And Wallace was out of his mind. Then they carried it over to the next year.

They lose a game seven in the finals. 06, I think they had that streak that was like, should four Pistons be on the all-star team? But they couldn't sustain that intensity level. Was that better than should five Atlanta Hawks be on the All-Star team? Oh my God. Remember that? But they couldn't sustain it. And the intensity and that

competitiveness was kind of a bigger reason for their success than the talent, which they had talent, but it was really like how hard they played and all the stuff they did that made them special. And I feel that way about Draymond. Like to me,

he reminds me of the kind of this decade's proxy of those Pistons teams where when he's at a high level, he's just at another level, but it's really hard for him to stay there. I don't think he's as, you know, look, everybody loves Rashid as a teammate, right? Like, have you met anybody that was like as you know look everybody loves Rashid as a teammate right like have you met

anybody that was like I'm over the years every time Rashid Wallace comes up you know guys are like oh man Rashid's my guy

it's so weird like KG's like that and he like totally quit on that Celtics team remember he was like a complete quitting that's my point

is that Draymond wouldn't do that Draymond wouldn't do that. Draymond wouldn't quit on the Warriors. Rasheed was a pretty and I don't mean selfish from like a shot attempt thing. Hell, I kind of wish he took more shots when he was awesome. But she'd be the kind of

guy who would show up and be like, I'm good today. I'm going to set screens. And I understand the comp there, but maybe good today. I'm going to set screens. You know? I understand the comp there, but maybe it's just because I'm thinking about She towards the end more than I'm thinking of Draymond still in his prime, what should be his prime. I'm just not off the Warriors.

We spent three minutes on it. I'm just not off of them, even though the edge thing is real. I think we have to have the discussion. I just want to have the discussion. No, I just want to have the discussion. I think there's three teams, I'll say three and a half in the West, that could be problematic depending on who they play between those two. One, we discussed Portland.

I think Golden State would handle Portland. Portland would make them sweat a little bit. Golden State's never had really anybody on the team to guard somebody like Lillard, but especially it's been a problem this year. Ultimately, it won't matter. They'll beat Portland. I think Portland, if they just got crazy, crazy hot for a couple games, maybe it gets exciting.

But I still think 101 is crazy. Now, if OKC plays Golden State in the second round, that's a different animal. And I don't love this OKC team, but they just have dudes who are favorable matchups against Golden State. Westbrook has always been somebody that just goes hard against them and really is able to do kind of whatever he wants. Paul George is probably your best bet to at least slow down Duran a little. You're not going to shut him down, but at least make him work and do stuff.

Adams has always been a problem for them. And, you know, I think Golden State would win that series too, obviously, but they'd have to sweat it out a little bit. And then you go to the Houston side, like Portland would love to play Houston. They'll go balls to the walls on them. You want to shoot threes? We'll shoot threes too. Let's do it. I think Utah would be a problem for either team if Mitchell

shows up. And I am always dubious of rookies in the playoffs would be my fear with them. And then Kawhi obviously becomes back. Sorry to cut you off. No, I was just saying if if Kawhi comes back, then at least there's a respect with the pop thing.

I'm personally not taking them that seriously, but if Kawhi's back and playing well, we'd have to at least be a little fearful. Anyway, go ahead. No, the Spurs thing, I mean, how many nights have you watched them this year? They're still winning all the time. They're so boring.

I know. You're like, Bertans isn this year? They're still winning all the time. They're so boring. It's weird. I know. You're like, Bertans isn't just a funny dude who comes off the bench that other teams missed on. It's unbelievable. This guy's playing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, what's the difference between them and the Hawks from a roster standpoint? And yet, they're 100 times better.

It's bizarre. There are times in the beginning of the year where Antonio makes me use Google. I'll be like, wait a minute. Who? Is that Gary? No? It's Grant? Oh. What? Who? Yeah, I felt the same way. I'm like, am I not a basketball fan anymore? Why don't I

know who this person is? It's like, oh, because it's the Spurs. Who he played for on TNT? I'm like, all right, we're still going to go Spurs. I sit there just sweating bullets in a suit going, oh, damn it. Yeah.

They bring over that Latvian kid. So I think the Golden State thing with OKC, though, like, all right. So remember that beginning that game in the beginning of February where Russ looked

like he was going to fight people in the concessions? Yeah. And that's probably not that rare of a scene. And they just came out. And like, it's so personal for Russ in those games that I think when they played again at the end of the month, when Golden State housed them, it was,

okay, we're going to remind you of the gap here. And I think Westbrook, which breaks all of my rules, when I watch players, like one of the first things I look at is, like, does this guy care? Does he get his ass kicked on a play? Does he get up and want to come right back at somebody? Because if you don't, like, you better be really good at something else. You better be big, a special shooter, you know?

And Westbrook cares more than, I think, any player I've ever seen, possession to possession. Yeah. Now, Jordan's still number one for me, but Westbrook's like in the top three or four. Like even last night, that Toronto game, like, you know, and he would have easily shot them out of the game too, but he did and he was making everything.

But he was just like, it felt like it was game seven. And he plays in the all-star game like that. Like that's just how he does it. And, but it started, he started to figure out the team around him and he, and it the eye test says he's becoming a little more effective, right? It feels a little more like a team now. Yeah. I always look at like his usage rate for last year was, I went back and looked up every Kobe usage rate and like even Kobe with those

bad Lakers teams, Westbrook was still significantly past them. We were talking like, I think it was like 42% or something, which is just an insane number. Well then you had his assist rate too. Cause I did some, I wrote about him last spring and I did a whole thing about the combination of his usage rate and assist rate. He basically just had the ball all the time

and decided every single moment on the court, which had never really happened before. And it did not pay off. And then you look at the success of some of the guys who left that team. It was a strategy designed to win him the MVP, but I don't think it was a strategy that works. This year, they found a better balance. It's just the eye test in my opinion.

Yeah. And then, I mean, it's way too late now to use my D'Angelo Russell joke, but no, no, no, no. We can edit, want to edit it back. It's better this way. It's just natural this way. But yeah, I would, I would look at like usage rates and you'd go, cause I think it tells you a lot about a guy. And if a guy has like a really, really high usage rate, the team doesn't do that.

Well, you go, okay, maybe you should do less stuff. Um, yeah, I feel like the answer on a poster, Russell Westbrook in his bedroom going,

that's what I want to do. I want to get to 40% usage rate. Um, you know, do you know that Westbrook is a third or yeah, 0.3 rebounds away from having another triple-double year. Not only am I aware of that, but it's a big joke with me and some of the ringer people in our Slack

because he goes rebound hunting sometimes, especially if they're playing the Hawks or something and he's got eight rebounds with four minutes left and they're going to win. He completely changes how he plays. Now the OKC people are going to get mad at me and I'm sure his defenders are going to be like, oh, Simmons. Look, I've watched basketball my whole life. I know when somebody's playing a little bit differently because they're trying to achieve something that's not just team success. And he is, it's, I think the rebounds thing, he's at 9.7. We have what, like 13, 14 games left. He'd have to basically average

11 the rest of the way. And I think maybe like 11.1, 11.2. I could see him doing it. I think it's on his mind. I mean, KOC and I did a podcast on Wednesday trying to figure out who the three team All-NBA guards were going to be, so six total. And there's seven choices. And it's like, who's going to get bumped? And even last week, I would have bumped Westbrook. But if he's going to finish this season with the team winning

and his stats going up, it's going to be impossible not to put him on at least third team on NBA. He might even be second team. But I'm with you. I think it's on his radar. Yeah, his last week here is rebounds. 12, 10, 12, 10, 13. And that's got to be, I'm going back through.

I think that's the longest stretch of double digit rebounds he's had. But we're not celebrating it now because we're not. Last year, and I think this always happens with the MVP stuff, the MVP thing becomes really tough. I mean, I've never voted on it, but Curry's never going to win another one. And LeBron has to do something incredible to win it. And he might be doing it right now. But because Harden hasn't gotten one,

and people have argued maybe Harden should have gotten one of the other ones. Then he's like next up in the queue. Yeah. And because Westbrook was a triple double guy, which I think is incredible, you know, for his hunting of rebounds, which is true, he still gets rebounds that most every other guard in the league would never even think about trying to get. So I want to be fair to Westbrook, even though I still, here I am and the guy's been in the league almost a decade,

and I struggle with how I feel about him because I think he's still really tough to play with. I think that he makes your team, especially with those Durant years, I think he makes, he makes you easier to defend

in some big-time playoff moments. When they blew the 3-1 lead to the Warriors, he was a mess at the end of those games. He's had some bad, some bad playoff stretches. they blew the 3-1 lead to the Warriors. He was a mess at the end of those games. He's had some bad playoff stretches. There's no question. But what do you do?

What do you do with him as a coach when a kid plays this hard and he's this competitive? Like, what do you say to him? Like, how do you – and I think the Paul George thing, you know, depending on the night, it's getting a little bit better. You know, Mello to me is like running key to key. And, you know, I think with the Brewer thing and Grant has been better, even though at the beginning I thought he was a disaster.

You know, Westbrook was a celebrated guy because we really love celebrating the NBA player that doesn't do something that we deem selfish, like Durant or LeBron and all that stuff. And I think you and I have talked about this before, but the arc of how much we love Durant was because he wasn't LeBron. And then we loved Westbrook last year because he wasn't Durant. And now that he has Paul George and, you know, which I still,

did I bring that up with you when they did the GM survey and they had just gotten fellow right before it. And the GM has voted that OKC had the best offseason ahead of Boston. And you're just like, that's got to be the dumbest thing ever. They're going to bring in Hayward, Irving,

and Bull to Tatum trade and add the extra pick because the Mellow News was more recent. You pick Presti as having the better offseason than Ainge. Like, that's a joke.

You know, Westbrook's never going to win an MVP again. I doubt it. I mean, unless a bunch of guys get hurt and, you know, he's going to put up numbers like this. I don't think he's going to win an MVP again I doubt it unless a bunch of guys get hurt and he's going to put up numbers like this I don't think he's going to fall off did you pick him for MVP last year? I've never voted for it

no but would that have been your pick? no you mean there was no official ballot? yeah on your radio show you must have said oh well that means I can't that means I can't mail you only have three hours a day. That means I can't mail you a Right Side

of History t-shirt that Zach Lowe and I are going to make with the Harden-Westbrook MVP voting. I said on the air, yes. You know what I did? I go, hey, I'm just going to be old-fashioned. I go, I'm going to be just a loser that doesn't get it. I go, I'm just going to say what Westbrook did this

year is incredible, even though I'm not like, I'm not 100% Westbrook, but he's not. If I had an approval rating of NBA guys, as far as stars are concerned, his wouldn't be as high as other players. But yeah, I think at the end of the year, by the time the show was over, I had a really hard time with it. I had a hard time

with Kawhi. How do you leave Kawhi? Again, bringing up Daryl Morey, Daryl reps his dudes, Houston Rockets general manager, and he's sitting there complaining nonstop about like, when did we stop caring about wins? They're like, well,

so then you're just, so you're telling me to vote for Kawhi? Right. Well, coming up, I'm going to tell you why triple doubles are the dumbest stat of all time

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We're back. I love doing those greeny teases. I really only do them when you're on. That wasn't a great greeny tease. I feel like I could have done better. No, that was. It was solid. It was.

Triple doubles. Let me do one next time. Okay, I'll let you do the next one. Okay. Triple doubles Let me do one next time Okay I'll let you do I'll let you do the next one Okay Triple doubles Which I wrote about A year ago Started in the early 80s

Just because some dude On the Lakers I think it was like Their radio announcer Was noticing that Magic Johnson was getting Like 10-10-10 And was like hey

It's a triple double And it kind of snowballed Nobody before 1982 Even knew this was a thing. I don't even think people in the eighties really gave a crap. I don't think people in the nineties really gave a crap. I don't know why we give a crap now. Like he got his, well, that's the ice cube lyric helped, but he got his hundredth last week and people, you know, it's looking on Twitter and it's like, there's this whole timeline on my Twitter thing about his triple doubles.

I'm like, who cares? Like I saw some stat today on, I think on Twitter about his 35, 10 and 10 games, where he's apparently had more than everyone else in the league combined. To me, that's an interesting stat. I think he's had 23 of them. Yeah, 35, 10, and 10. Now we're talking. That is unbelievable.

I like that. I like the 40-10. I did something I wrote about Davis two weeks ago about how he had already had more 40-10 games than Tim Duncan. I just don't know why we decided triple-double was the be-all, end-all. I think somewhere, maybe it was NBA Reddit, which I I always like, I think, uh, somewhere maybe it was a NBA Reddit, which I haven't been to in a long time, but, um, they were talking about how a LeBron should be a stat, which I think was like 27, seven and seven should be a thing. But like, it's just so arbitrary

that we decided, Oh, if you get to 10 in these three categories, that's a triple double. And that's more impressive than just about anything else. It's fucking stupid. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Agreed. Totally agree. So even though you know, and this is one of those things where you go, well, there's a little bit of a middle lane here, like what Westbrook did last

year was incredible. But triple doubles can be really stupid. Like if you go 4 of 16 with 11 points, and it's cool that you got that many rebounds for a guard, but it shouldn't be this exciting. Maybe it should be different categories of it. I think it plays in perfectly with the Ben Simmons,

Donovan Mitchell thing. I love Simmons. Good audible. I love what he's done. Yeah, but don't tell me Simmons wins rookie of the year because of the triple-double numbers.

Because a lot of those are with less than 15 points. And if you watch Philadelphia, and to me this has been one of the great stories of the season, that they're already this good with this younger group that had never played together really. They're the great stories of the season that they're, that they're already this good with, you know, this,

this younger group that had never played together really. They're, and I looked at it last week, they're the second worst offensively in the fourth quarter. And you have Simmons, who's not taking a ton of shots. He just doesn't want to shoot. And then they ask him to bail him out of everything.

And it's all, it's by the way, awful to watch. It's the flaw with their team is Embiid to bail him out of everything. It's, by the way, awful to watch. It's the flaw with their team is Embiid in the half court with eight seconds in the shot clock, 20 feet from the basket. You're not winning a playoff series that way. You're just not.

I do think it's a huge flaw for a team that's been so much fun in a story. I've told the entire city of Philadelphia I was wrong. I didn't even think they'd be this good. I didn't think they'd be good on defense. Young teams aren't good, although that's kind of that other thing. We have a bunch of young teams that are pretty good on defense

this year, which doesn't really happen. Simmons isn't being asked to do in the fourth quarter what Donovan Mitchell has been doing for Utah. He's like the guy for a team as a rookie. So, I think it's a close vote. I wouldn't scream up and down

if you said, hey, I'm voting Simmons over Donovan Mitchell, but that kind of gets back to the whole triple-double thing of I wouldn't use the triple-double numbers for Simmons as the deciding factor to go rookie of the year. If you were doing 20-10-10, okay, that's different. Yeah, and I think

team performance matters a little more when both teams are playoff teams. You got to look at that too. I just look at Mitchell, like that team was done. That team was headed for 28 wins in the lottery if he's not awesome. They had this two different stretches where Gobert went out and they collapsed. Rubio wasn't playing well.

I was watching them and monitoring them because they were one of my overpicks before the season. And I was like, wow, how did I miss this? What was the number? I think it was like 43 or 43 and a half. It was like way too low. It was absurdly low. And then Gobert got hurt and all of a sudden it wasn't that low.

But Mitchell saved their season and resuscitated it in time for Gobert to come back. And now their whole team has fallen into place. I think what he's doing, A, is just more impressive than what Simmons is doing. I think Simmons is spectacular. Yeah, I love Simmons. Mitchell's in a better conference. Ben too. He's going against great guards night after night.

And he's in a situation where he has to do way more in the fourth quarter than most rookies really should have to do. He looks like Dwayne Wade. He really looks like he's headed for becoming like, you know, I don't know if he'll be as good as Dwayne Wade, but he does look like it's a little Dwayne Wade, 2004, 2005-ish. And I just think it's more important than what Simmons is doing. The fact that Simmons succeeds despite this obvious flaw where he just can't shoot for more than 14 feet.

And it's so easy to stop them at the end of games and they really have to make crazy shots to win. Whereas Utah, Mitchell's just cutting up teams. I'm still, I just don't trust rookies in the playoffs. And I feel the same way about Jason Tatum who has gacked some national TV games. He's 19 years old, you know, and you watch, he's playing the Warriors. He has this look on his face, like, Holy fuck, I'm playing Kevin Durant. Like it's really hard to shake that for a couple of years. And that would be my fear with Utah. With that said, fuck I'm playing Kevin Durant like it's really hard to shake that for a couple years and uh that would be my fear with Utah with that said I wouldn't want to play Utah in a playoff series

because if he shows up for that series that's a really really tough out don't you think I cannot express this enough if you look at their defensive stuff you you think something's wrong yeah like you look at it and go you know it's like looking at your bank account, your growth. You're like, that can't be real. Oh, it is. When I look at their fourth quarter stuff, they're closing. You know, and a lot of that's go bare, but Snyder's really good, man. Yeah, he is.

That guy's an awesome coach. I think he's top five now. To reinvent yourself a couple different times, you know, not only the offseason and losing the guy that you felt like was going to be kind of the face of the franchise and, hey, we're, you know, okay, let's figure this out. And then what I think we'll look back on is an incredibly deep draft. Maybe we're going to be lucky enough to get it two years in a row. You go, all right, so this Mitchell dude's kind of fun. And then you go, okay, he's probably like as much of a highlight as really anybody else.

Okay, what does that mean as a rookie? And then you go, okay, wait a second, now they're going to start winning some of these games. But I do have to get back to yourself who have been, what, 500 since the... Yeah. I saw some saying there's some stretch from like January on to 500.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to ask you if this is a fair criticism of Brad Stevens. Are you ready for this? We're going to criticize the president of the United States. Wow. Maybe should I throw to him? Why don't you do a tease? Do a tease.

Let's do one more ad. This is perfect. Okay. Greeny tease. All right. Greeny tease. Well, it'll be more on Jason Tatum. And how come in 2018,

a woman has never won SEC Defensive Player of the Year in football? Next. Hey, one last break to talk about shaving. I showed up today. My producer, Jim Cunningham, had shaved. I noticed. You notice when people shave. I've been shaving since college. The Gillette Fusion Ultra Sensitive Skin Shaving Gel, it changed my life. It transformed everything. It's the turning point to when everything fell into place for me because I didn't have open cuts on my neck anymore. Recently, I started using the Gillette Fusion Pro Shield razor. I ordered it, got four

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All right. We're back. Incredible tease right there. I I'm still on. It's a cliffhanger. I'm still in the edge of my seat. Uh, all right. Tell us,

criticize Brad Stevens for us. Don't try not to get hit by lightning bolt. No, because it's like I sent out the tweet last week and I'm kind of like typing and I'm almost like moving the phone away from my face. I'm typing it going, oh, do I really want to hit send on this? He's incredible. He might be the best coach in the league.

Everything has worked out. He's maybe rethink the value of coaches with teams. He's awesome. But it stretches. And I think Tatum's now, and by the way, just so everybody doesn't correct you, Tatum just turned 20. I think he just had a kid too, didn't he? Whenever somebody 20 has a kid

and I'm 42, I go, what are you doing? But that's another podcast. Yeah, we'll talk about that later. I love Tatum. I love him. I love him. I love the trade. I love the whole thing. I didn't really think that it was a tier of folks involved and everybody else. I thought the tier was maybe like

5D of those top guys. And I know that the three-point shooting has fallen off, but he was leading the league in shooting for three. And that wasn't, like, we knew that that wasn't going to stand out. But what I haven't liked about Tatum is that in those minutes where Kyrie

would be gone, the games Kyrie's missed, and it's not a factor now because Marcus is hurt, is that Marcus would see those minutes without Kyrie as Marcus' minutes. And yes, Tatum's incredibly efficient, but he should have been sixth at shot attempts. I think he's fifth now on the team when he's that talented. And actually, the really special thing about a guy

who's that young at 6'8", can handle it, can shoot, has a little mid-range, is that when he gets shut off he'll look for a teammate like he's not one of those rookies like well hey i finally hit the ball and it's in my place that i have to shoot no matter what right he'll still play within the framework of what they're trying to do and kick it out to somebody so there were minutes and i know he missed the free throws against the wizards but there were stretches where razeal was doing whatever he wanted to do, and I feel like they're so structured

other than Kyrie doing whatever he wants, which is great. I don't like for the long-term benefit of Tatum for them to have less structured stuff where they can go, Tatum, hey, just go do your thing. And maybe it's just because he's tired. It's just because people are gearing up for him a little bit more.

But I feel like it's more of a last resort than a, hey, we don't care if we're off script here, Tatum, but you just go do your thing. And I don't think they've done it enough when Kyrie hasn't been on the floor. I've noticed two things. Obviously, I think about this a lot because I watch all these stupid games

and get frustrated by the same things any other Celtic fan does. One is that his handle has never been the same since he hurt his hand. And he loses the ball, especially in traffic, just a weirdly high amount. Maybe I'm imagining it, but it just seems like before he had that hand injury, he just had a really special handle, it seemed like. And now it's like he can't keep the ball in traffic. That's one thing.

And then the other thing is what you said about Stevens where, God, we're going to complain about Brad Stevens. America does not want to hear this. Do we not even do it? The Cleveland fans just got Larry Drew as their interim coach. And they're listening to us complain about Brad Stevens. But, but they,

the way their offense is designed, the guards drive all of it. Right. So Kyrie doesn't play. And it's like Terry Rozier, this is your night. And Terry Rozier's usage rate is super high. And it's like,

Oh, Terry Rozier is hurt too. Shane Larkin, this is your night. And it's just like, whoever the guard is, is going to be the guy who runs the offense. And it's that same Isaiah role, whoever it is, that guy dominates. And I have wondered like, why don't they run more stuff for Tatum? Why don't they post them up? Like some, sometimes there's games where there's somebody three inches smaller than him on him.

And it just seems like he should be able to just annihilate this guy from seven feet from the basket. I'm really concerned about the Celtics because Marcus, one of the most polarizing basketball players in recent memory for the national audience. But I think the Celtics fans appreciate him a little more. Not having him in round one is, is absolutely petrifying to me because we talked about the alpha dog stuff before with Draymond and you know, who's kind of supplying that. And when he's not out there, he's, he's the alpha dog of the team. He's the high intensity guy. He's the ratchet up. He's kind of the, here are my, you know, the guy, the Sam Cassell, here are my big balls. He's the ratchet up. He's kind of the, here am I, you know, the guy, the Sam Cassell here in my big balls, he's that guy in this team. And if he's not going to be in there, I think anybody could beat the Celtics in round one. Am I overthinking that?

No, cause I'm not the biggest smart fan, but I appreciate all the things that he does that are all the things you just listed. Cause I just think, well, why can't you still do all those things and just shoot less? It's the, it's part of the deal. It's like buying the car that you're getting the deal on. And it's like, hey, the one thing is that this car doesn't have a sunroof. And you're like, all right, fine.

And then you're driving around like, fuck, I got the car without the sunroof. That's kind of the Marcus experience. You're always kind of, Westbrook's like that too. It's funny how certain, you know, certain superstars are like that role players, guys in between where you just, you're watching them constantly fixating on that one thing they can't do. I wrote a column about Westbrook like six years ago where I was calling them 90, 10 guys where you love 90% of it, but there's that 10% that drives you crazy. And everybody has that 10%. It's just more glaring with certain guys, right?

Like magic couldn't guard anybody, but he didn't even matter. He's. Yeah. But the rest of it were, yeah. Yeah. The 90% was so great.

And you look at Marcus and you're like that 10% of him just taking idiotic threes with, you know, with two minutes left down one with the biggest play of the game. You're like, why do you do that? Um, but that's just part of the game. You're like, why did he do that? But that's just part of the package. He's missing a sunroof.

The Westbrook 90-10 thing I think is one of the smartest things you've ever done. Thank you. We used it on the show, and I went, that's perfect. And then he kind of used that as a, don't sit there and wait for perfect. Don't wait for this perfect player because he's never going to happen. And I think that happens to LeBron a bit. LeBron's 10%, if he even is 10, would be the flopping and that stretch

where anybody, like if you touched his jersey, he checked for blood. And it was so freaking annoying. I would say there's some coach stuff with him that probably is in the 10% too. All right. So maybe we'll get up to 10. What do you think your 10% is? Are you a 90, 10 guy? I'm like a 60, 40 guy at this point. I was a 90, 10 guy.

Now I think I'm a solid 60, 40. Yeah. We, what do you think your 90, 10 was? What was it? What was your 10? Cause we all know what the 90. Incredible competitiveness, willingness to try anything, creative. And then the 10 was I could not edit myself. My cons are just too long. I couldn't

stop it. But the... That would be a good... You should do that podcast. We just go through everybody who does the opinion business and we break them down. Yeah, there's not a lot of 90-10 guys. I think we veered more toward the 50-50 or 40-60 or 30-70. I think 50-50 would be awesome if you're an on-air opinion guy.

That would be good because I'm rattling through dudes. I'm like, oh, that guy's like a 30-70. The guy I really admire over everyone at this point who I didn't always used to like that much but I just I just admire what he's built

is Steve Aday. That dude he does TV for three was it two hours or three hours? What is that first take show? Two hours.

First takes two. Does he these long Sam Jackson and Pulp Fiction type monologues about sports and gets so into it and so fired up

and just puts everything into it. I would be winded for three days after. Leaves the show and immediately goes on a radio show where he ratchets it up like three levels. And he's at seven higher levels of the Sam Jackson Pulp Fiction thing and then probably goes home and does like I'm just always jealous of people who have the ability just to rip that off for hours I don't know how people do it like Coward I feel like if Fox

was like Coward can you do a 24 hour radio show today Coward's like great I'll line it up right now here my tick coming up I'll tell you this done coming up I'll tell you why UMBC choked and some people are just wired that way but Stephen A like I can't believe

he does a radio show after first take I'm just stupefied by it every day five days a week and then we'll go on like NBA and like I don't know I don't know what to tell you I can't believe you just picked the dude who got my slot though. You don't think that was a little like,

you don't think there's a little sensitive? No, nobody got your slot. You chose not to keep the slot. What are you talking about? I know, I know. I should have known you would turn that into a personal affront. That's my 10. That's my 10%. But that's Massachusetts. I'm so used to That's my 10%. That's your 10. Maybe 20.

But that's Massachusetts. I'm so used to that. I didn't even think of that. Yeah, I should have guessed. I know. I don't know how to adjust when I'm out there. I'm like, wait a minute. That guy doesn't want to fight me.

They're like, no. He's from Costa Mesa. He's, you know, we're blacks. By the way, we could offend so many people right now by talking about their 10s. Like if SVP is listening to this, he's just terrified. We're going to be like, what about SVP? What's his 10? I'm not going to do that.

I'm not doing that to that guy. I'm not. Not either. He'd be really upset. No, but him, I'll tell you what his 10 would be. His 10 would be how mad he would get when we talk about his 10. Fair. And then I'm already going to get a text

being like, oh, how am I getting mad? Thanks for making me seem thin-skinned. Yeah, great. Thanks, Ryan. And I'll say to Van Pelt, I get just as mad as you do. That's why we were really good hosts together because, and like shockingly, Scott and I didn't really have

that many blowouts in six years. Like we kind of laugh about them. Despite being in a room together for that long, we got, I had maybe five total fights and two or like three weren't even that bad. Two were pretty nasty. That was like three less than Sean McDonough and John Gruden. Yeah.

That was, what? What? I found that to be, um, the Sean McDonough exit interview was a little weird, right? Yeah. it was.

And McDonough, he makes a great point. And, you know, Tariqo had even referenced it in passing. Yeah. You know, when he used to be a regular Monday guest with Scott and I, that, you know, the Monday slate isn't strong, but quite strong. Like, are we saying anything? Like, how many times, like, I'm a pipe as expert. You know?

Like, how many times does that game be, like, a bad game? So, anyway, I mean, I guess that's a whole other topic. But the Stephen A thing is really, really interesting. I've known him a really long time, not to say we're close friends or anything, but he and I used to go on a show that was on a Comcast, really, the Lou Tilly show. Oh, Lou Tilly.

Lou Tilly, great dude. And I would be kind of the boss guy. And then Stephen A would kind of go back and forth, but it was right. It was like Stephen A was about to blow up. And I've always liked Stephen A. Stephen A and I have always been cool.

The whole radio show thing. I'm kidding. I mean, I knew what they were, we all knew what was going to happen because he's Stephen A. And I think on TV, you know, he's incredible. I mean, I knew what they were, we all knew what was going to happen because he's, he's Stephen A. And I think on TV, um, you know, he's incredible. I mean, I think I'm a better talk show host radio, but he would say the same thing about me.

Like who would ever do this and go, you know what? Stephen A is 10 times better than me at radio. Like, I don't think that. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think he's better than me either. I was just, I, I'm talking about purely being able to do that for 25 hours a week. It's incredible. I think he's a hundred times better.

Like, I think he's way better a TV guy than I was. So I mean, yeah, he's compelling. You kind of pay attention to it, but your overall thing of like getting it going that much every single day, like that's hard. But I also think like that was kind of what I had heard was sort of the beef with like seeing Skip a little was that Skip was, you know, even though I didn't really get along with Skip the last, you know, the beginning we get along and then we didn't.

But Skip was meticulous about it. Like he'd read everything. He put together all his stuff. I mean, you know, I'm a big prep guy. And, you know, Skip was his age. And I imagine still today, like really big on prep. And Stephen A didn't have to. And so if you're working with the other guy that doesn't have to work as much as you,

and I don't know if there was resentment, but you'd hear stuff like, hey, Stephen A could show up at 9.59, and you're getting the same show if he was there four hours before going over segment. And I actually admire those guys because I could never do it that way. I'd have to sit in my office and go through stuff and all these things and whatever. But yeah, I think Stephen A's a pretty...

I don't know. How did this start? We were talking about the 90-10 guys and Westbrook and Donovan... Not Donovan Mitchell. Somebody else that was the proxy for this. LeBron. Oh, LeBron and all that stuff.

Yeah, we're talking about the Western Conference. Is anybody a little bit scary? It seems like... What if Eddie Antleman is 90-10? I would say the Boston sports media scene right now might be 1090. You're really upset about it lately. It's rough. Well, it's just rough because it was there when I was there 20 years ago and I hated it.

And you could tell that this was just the way it was going to be for the rest of eternity. And it's just, I's, I just don't, I don't really understand it. I don't understand why it's so hard to, to talk and write about sports in a relatively even handed way. Why everything has to be negative and mean for the most part doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Do you think radio is different now though? Like negative, negative means than it was 40 years ago.

Cause the weird thing about Boston, like anytime anybody goes, Oh, did you work up there? And I go, no, the funniest thing is that I wanted to work at EI so bad while I was doing hot dogs,

safari promos at the zone, your former station. And, um, you know, I'll never forget leaving a meeting and the guy was like, maybe some weekend updates, but we just, you know, I'll never forget leaving a meeting. And the guy was like, maybe some weekend updates, but we just, you know, we just don't think you're ready for primetime. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like in my head, I'm going, you don't think I'm ready to fill in?

Yeah. Have you heard of Mustard and Johnson? Yeah, it's, it's rough. I don't think it's rough. I don't think anyone's happy. Well, I don't think anyone's happy with their local radio scene. I think if you if you ask any fan. Every city meets their guys.

I think every city is probably frustrated. It seems like maybe Chicago is probably I just think because Chicago I think it really goes to the personality of the city. So like Chicago, you go to Chicago and the people are just nice and they're chill and they just like everything, you know,

there's just, it's like just fun place to go. Everybody's got like a good perspective there. And then you drift toward the East coast and it's just a little, it gets a little, it starts getting a little feistier. And one of the funny things with Boston was that all the fans listening to the show,

and I think New York's like this too, and I think Philly's like this, all the fans listening to the shows are convinced that they would be a better host than the guy

they're listening to. And not even like, not even like kidding around, like in a genuine, I would be better than this guy if I only got a chance. They really feel this way.

And those are the only three cities where that's definitely the case. Well, it's definitely the industry. Like, I think there's this, as we've all become aware of everybody's thoughts, whether it's ours at home or every single person that listens or watches or anything like we're, we're never, we've never been more aware of how little everybody thinks of us. And I understand like when I was working construction and I would listen to

EI, I'd be like, I could do that, you know? And I did it. Like I decided to do it. So I'm not saying everybody can do that, but I can understand that mentality of like, Hey, I could do that. You know, like I watch games. I know what a slider looks like. I'm amazed by the appetite in Boston for conversations about local teams and how different it is. And that appetite was there 20 years ago, but you just look at it now.

They have the two stations. They have these shows, these Comcast, whatever it's called, those shows on for three hours. Boston Sports Night, yeah. Shout out to Kevin Miller. It's just going and going and going and it's non-stop. What's up with Marcus?

I spent an hour talking about Marcus Smart or three straight shows talking about why Malcolm Butler didn't play in the Super Bowl and people listen to it and watch it. The numbers back it up. It's a good idea. That city's nuts. It's nuts.

But I remember, I mean, I was doing it every day for over three years when I was at the station that, thank God, wasn't really doing that well because I just filled four hours a day. And then I remember one time they were like, hey, your show's going to be two hours now. I'm like, what happened? What did I do wrong?

They're like, oh, you haven't done anything wrong. But some guy bought two hours. How long do you think, let's say I came to you in six months and I was like, Ryan, I've done everything I wanted to do. I just want to move back to Boston, host a local radio show with you

and just try to beat these fuck faces every day. Come with me. How long would you think about it? Three seconds. Like, let's just go back. Let's just go.

Let's just go. Let's throw away the national thing. Let's throw away the mainstream thing. I'm giving up the ringer. I just want to go back and go back into the, into the sewers and battle these fucking Boston guys. Let's do it. Let's do it together.

You and me, buddy. Only if the first show were four hours on, what do you think the Celtics will do without Bill Nader's contract? When is Belichick on senile? Welcome. Welcome. Welcome.

Scylla Simmons. Uh, what is up with Bill Belichick no is Belichick a better fit at Navy with his defensive approach by the way

if we were in Boston the first show we would do would be me freaking out about the last episode of Tom vs. Time and

which I didn't even know about until my dad told me and Brady leaving the door open that, yeah, maybe this is, maybe we are getting close to the end. I don't know how much longer I can do this. It was like, you motherfucker. We just traded Garoppolo. Now you're not sure. Now you might want to spend more time with your family. What are you doing? I was so mad.

I've never been more mad at somebody who brought me five championships. Do you think that was just dramatic effect though? Like you, you work in the, in the business. Oh, you think Gotham Chopra was telling him, Hey man,

can you play up the whole, I don't know if I'm coming back thing. We need, we can get a second season for this. He was like, look, I'm not going to get up, get on a boat and say king of the world,

but I'll, I'll do this, this thing where where maybe I you know for dramatic effect I don't know I mean look this thing's going to be over with him at some point but yeah the Garoppolo thing like what was Garoppolo supposed to do never play like that's what I think has always lost Garoppolo shit is that if I spent my whole life hoping to be an NFL quarterback and then I was on an actual roster and I'm behind the greatest one of all time who apparently is going to defy science like yeah man I don't know that I'm just going to sit around here on what could be a really lucrative back on that track but like I want to play football like I would like to be a starting

quarterback and I don't think we ever use that enough when we talk about the desire of these athletes well it's like when you were on the SVP show, but they wouldn't put your name on it for like a year because they were dicks about it. You could have done that. How many years was it? Four. It was four years your name wasn't on the show? Yeah. Four years?

That's like Trump's entire presidency. Maybe. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. Wait a minute. What did we just do? A liberal thing? No entire presidency. Maybe. Hopefully not. Wait a minute. Were you just doing a liberal thing? No. Yeah, sorry. That's going to...

Nah, sorry about that. I'm not angry about that. Yeah, I didn't think that as an anti-Trump thing. I just, I meant it as like... Yeah, yeah. I don't know, man. I just, I'm tired of people being this upset. So even if I, you know, I'm certainly...

I almost feel like now I have to clarify this because I just get so sick of like the anti-Trump jokes from everybody all morning long, but it doesn't mean I like Trump either. I think that decent people could say, you know, we could tighten up some things here. I have everyone on mute on my Twitter feed who mentions Trump. I'm just, you know what I want in my basketball? I want, I want like UMBC and I want basketball, Twitter, and I want to find out pop culture stuff.

And if I, if I want to read about Trump, I'll go to newspapers that cover them in magazines. Wait, we have one last thing and then we have to go. Um, where did UMBC rank on your all time list of sports upsets that you have witnessed personally?

Okay. My father called me immediately to shoot down all excitement. Oh, he did the old guy thing? Yeah. He goes, hey, if you were on today, I would remind you. I was like, well, it's Saturday.

I left. Remember? I didn't use it that way. He's like, Villanova, Georgetown, for what was at stake, was a much bigger upset. But the thing is, I think he kind of has a point. I think he has a point. I hate being crusty old guy. I really thought about it because my natural instinct was

I've always wanted to see a 16 seed win. This was on my sports fan bucket list. I'm euphoric. What an upset. But as I spent the weekend mulling it over, for me, Douglas Tyson is one. I'll never forget Douglas Tyson. I still can'ting it over. For me, Douglas Tyson is one. I'll never forget Douglas Tyson. I still can't believe it happened. The odds were actually better for UMBC to win the game than it was for Douglas to beat Tyson. Tyson had built up an invincibility that seemed impenetrable.

Virginia was just this team that had Tony Bennett as a coach that was a one seed. I didn't really know anything about them. It didn't seem inconceivable that somebody could hang with them. So I would have that one. I would have Villanova, Georgetown. I would have NC State, Houston. I remember that game. That was kind of the original Cinderella upset for March Madness.

This is weird because it's over the course of four games, but the Red Sox coming back against the Yankees in 04, I think is up there. And then a random one for me, the Cubs coming back after the rain delay in game seven,

I feel like has been lost now in history. This fortuitous rain delay when they had just blown the world series and it was clearly headed for this Bob Stanley, Calvin, Cheryl, the Mookie Wilson, uh, Bill Buckner type of horrible, uh, emotionally scarring ending. And then it rained and everybody got to reset itself and then they rallied back. I feel like that's on the list for me too.

And I'm sure some other stuff, but Villanova Georgetown and Douglas Tyson for me are still kind of the top two and USA but that was on tape no no no that's good I mean you know Bob Stanley was a pitching coach for a minor league team

when I was working in the minors and I was still so pissed off about 86 and then in the book where I think it was Stanley or his wife told Gedman's wife, like it was a pass ball and it wasn't a wild pitch. Yeah. It was a bad pitch.

And I was still so pissed about it. He asked, he didn't know who I was obviously. And I immediately, and he asked me to park his car and I wouldn't. That's unbelievable. Oh my God. I was still so pissed that many years later about that inning.

His body language, his posture and Calvin Shiraldi's posture summed up what it was like to be a Red Sox fan for most of my life. Just that kind of slumped over shoulder sagged dumb look in their face like just the hat up like not in a cool 1988

breakaway movie way. You just knew it was going to go wrong. You could have had them on TV on mute and really thought the worst possible things were happening. But what were we talking about? Oh yeah biggest upsets. Miracle on Ice, I think you're going to throw in there, which is on tape though.

I feel like it's a little tainted with the tape thing. Yeah, well I think, so basically what we're saying on my father's premise is, the NC State Houston deal is a perfect example is that we're talking about you're in the moment, ratchet it up. Whereas if you're the one speed playing at 16, you can't,

like you can understand a mental lapse there. I always thought it would happen if you had 815 speed at two, then eventually it was going to happen. And we had close calls in the past. But the Douglas one, you have to understand these Tyson fights. Like you remember watching him and you would make plans for what you were going to do later. Like, when that happened, I remember I had two buddies over, Jay and Craig, for a sleepover.

And, you know, that was... He was... I think Tyson's more mythical. Well, not mythical, but he was this superhero in a way that we just haven't... I don't think we've had anything like that since then. I just don't think we have. There was Tiger for a little bit, Jordan for a little bit.ordan for a little bit

but tyson at a much bigger level because it was one-on-one beating the shit out of somebody yeah see that's the thing is like when i think of it as a combat ferocity thing like that's a whole nother level of that guy's put in his sport yeah no this is the scariest being on the planet and he's he's he's horrifying other grown men that are bigger than him that are pissing their pants they don't even want to get in the ring and every single comedian and every single rapper it's like all it was tyson tyson tyson yeah and so you just never thought it was ever going to happen now having read did you read larry sloman's book that he did on titan well it's tyson's autobiography but it's written by sloman so you know i mean did you read that one came out yeah you learned after the fact you learned that he was having sex with everybody he had nobody in his corner um he was having a mental

breakdown he was sleeping with all of the maids so the maids would come to do like to turn his room over in in tokyo and he would just sleep with them. And then they would bring more maids cause he was tipping them so well. And then he was just having like maid orgies. I think he said he slept with like four or five women or like within 25 hours, 24 hours before the fight. And he was using drugs. I had no, I like I never used drugs, but I had no idea. Cause it was like a hundred pages. We didn't know that in 1990. I was in college. We had a party that night.

We didn't know. Yeah, we had a party. It was one of those things you do in like 1990 when you get a couple kegs and you charge everyone $5 to come in. I'm sure they still do that. Maybe they don't. No, now it's like bracelets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was old school. People could have stuck it. It didn't matter.

But that fight started going on by the fourth round. Hey, Todd didn't pay. Get him out of here. Hey, Sully, go get him. Is that guy from San Jose? Get that guy Todd out of here. All the guys are drifting toward the TV, and all the girls at the party are now on the other side of the room. And it was honestly like an honestly like a, it was like, like an episode

of a TV show. It was like a stereotypical episode of what would happen in this situation where you just had by the eighth round, every guy is near the TV. And I think the girls started leaving. They're like, what's going on? I thought this was a party, but we were just entranced. Like we couldn't, we couldn't fathom that this was happening. And the 16 seed was unbelievable. I loved it. It was fantastic. It's in my top four or five, but that and Georgetown Villanova were just different. Georgetown was like, this is one of the great teams of all time. Ewing is Bill Russell. It's unfair. Oh my God, Villanova's going to get killed. And they really should have, if you played them 25 times,

I think they lose 24. They literally played the perfect game. That's why HBO did the documentary about it. Would they shoot 78% or something? 68%? It's stupid. It's a stupid number. You know, and limited the possession.

Slowed it down. And that whole thing. Yeah, it was like a chess match. I'm more excited about the Holy Cross party. I want to know how many gap rugbies were the girls wearing? Oh, man. I want to know. In 1990, yeah, there was a lot of heavy clothes on everyone's end.

A lot of baggy jeans. J. Crew roll neck. So many pleated khakis. Really bad beer. You know, it was like, and I'm sure they still do this now, but you had that choice of like the really good keg of beer for $110 or whatever it was versus like the cheapest beer for 55. And you just grab like the worst one, the cat,

the keg tap that was, uh, probably you'd borrowed from somebody, you didn't know if it was clean or not. Probably had more germ. It was probably a germatory. Uh, missing. and then your roommate complained the next day

he was like dude that's 20 bucks I just lost yeah yeah what happened how did we lose money on this yeah all that stuff what great times um

hey Rosillo plug your podcast the Rosillo podcast uh out weekly ESPN iTunes subscribe

rate do the whole thing. And it's pretty cool. First two months since it's been out, it's the number four podcast at ESPN. So I'm pumped. And are you moving to LA or you're just too much of a coward? What's going on? We did a home inspection.

Yeah, a home inspection came through last week and it didn't go great. So we're a little behind schedule. But what I did, Bill, you know, because I know everybody's making fun of me now about this whole thing. As I look outside of my lovely Connecticut residence here, I called a moving company and already scheduled it. So they are going to pack up this place. And if they move the boxes to the West Coast and the house is even ready, I like basically enforcing myself to move by call. The moving truck is coming here and we're packing it up one day, whether the house out there is ready or not.

I think this is great for the ringer for the NBA playoffs. It reminds me not to compare you to Bison Dele, but it reminds me of the 97 bowls feeling really good about the playoffs, but then adding Bison Dele and his lefty post-up game and just that second scorer who just they didn't expect to get. That's how I feel about you coming to LA. Well, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out how you're going to be insulted by Dele.

What? No, well, I mean, yeah. Let me think about how insulting that is and I'll text you later no here's the thing you can't play starters minutes for us because you have a job but what you could do

what you could do is you pop off the bench every once in a while and we just feed you we're just like this six minutes we have Russillo he's getting buckets. We're just, we're getting it.

We're setting them up. Vinnie Johnson would have been better. Vinnie Johnson would have been better. Well, but they had Vinnie Johnson. I was trying to think

of somebody who got acquired right near the playoffs. Oh, like PJ Brown? Yeah. Oh, PJ Brown.

That's better. Is that better than Bison Dele? Yeah. All right. I didn't know we were doing like buyout late edition.

You're right. You're way more particular. And Bison's pretty good. He's a pretty good player. Bison. So? Yeah, all right. I didn't know we were doing like buyout, late addition. You're right. You're way more particular. And Bison is pretty good. He's a pretty good player. Bison. So I'll take that. Bison was really good that year. I was hoping Greg Monroe would be the Bison Dele of the 2018 Celtics,

but I'm not feeling great about that. I got to tell you, he runs like his feet are hurting. Yeah. Yeah, if we made a list, if we made our all-NBA team list of big guys who run in a way where you feel like they're not going to be in the league in two years, he's definitely on the list. The Andrew Bynum memorial, I just don't like how you're running. Remember that? Remember Bynum? Yeah.

Even before Philly traded him, like, wow, you see Bynum in person, like, oh, oh man. I don't like the way he's running. Anyway, Ryan Rosillo, a pleasure as always. I look forward to your LA arrival. I look, I mean, like I said, if you have a room available, I'll kick in. Okay. All right. All right. We'll be in touch. Thank you as always.

All right. See ya. All right. Thanks so much to Ryan. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, I'll kick you in. Okay. All right. We'll be in touch. Thank you as always. All right. See you. Thanks so much to Ryan. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. My listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to SimpliSafe, the home security system that's prepared for everything. If a storm takes out your power, your phone line gets cut, or your

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Visit Gillette online at GilletteOnDemand.com We are back. I have some good podcasts coming up these next couple weeks. You guys are so lucky. Really. This is free. I'm giving you free entertainment. What's better than that?

We have some good ones coming up though. I'm excited. If you've checked my Instagram, you probably have seen a couple of possible clues. See you soon. I want to see them on the way so I never want to say I don't have feelings with them. On the way so I never want to say I don't have feelings with them.