The Bill Simmons Podcast - Raptors President Masai Ujiri on NBA Growth, Draft Tricks, and Making the Carmelo Trade (Ep. 278)

Episode Date: October 25, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by The Ringer's Chris Ryan to discuss the Sixers' injury situation with top pick Markelle Fultz (7:00) and the ways in which the Philly front office is letting its young core down early this season (22:00). Then, Toronto Raptors president of basketball operations Masai Ujiri joins (34:40) to give his thoughts on the importance of the NBA draft process and the growth of basketball internationally. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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boys from Pearl Jam Chris Ryan is here. What's your title at the ring? I can't remember. Executive editor? Yeah. Executive editor. Host of two-day NBA Palooza. Yeah.

Yeah. We taped with Masai yesterday, and I was going to run that, but there's so much weird NBA stuff going on. I wanted to talk with somebody for 15 minutes. Who better than you? Sixers fan. The Sixers, every time the process seems like it's finally running smoothly, something weird happens.

Markel Fultz, he's looked weird this whole season. Can we lay it out a little bit? He looked fine in Summer League, and he hurt his ankle. I meant preseason, real season. Yeah, and then something happened in October. He was playing in an inter-squad scrimmage at Penn at the Palestra, and his free throw shot looked like

it was the third free throw he'd ever taken in his life yeah you know like he was like a late adult like continuing education i'm picking up a new hobby late in life and that was worrying that was troubling for a number one pick yeah and uh since then there then there came out information about he's had this shoulder thing that's been bothering him and it forced him to change his mechanics he'd been adjusting his shot to change to compensate for this injury there was also talk about how he had done a little bit of independent study and just decided to change his mechanics oh not good yeah so this has been kind of hovering over him for his entire preseason and he gets out there and

you know what he looked like a rookie yeah. Yeah. He just looked like a rookie. He looked like a 19-year-old. It's okay. Go back and look at some other guy's first three games. Yeah. Not that big of a deal. Paul Pierce, I remember when he looked like a rookie. Andrew Wiggins looked like a rookie. Yeah.

Kobe Bryant looked like a rookie until January of his rookie year. Everything was fine except for the free throw shooting part and the part that he's not shooting threes at all, which was such a big piece of what he was allegedly supposed to be. Right. He was supposed to be like... Not doing either of those things. He can play off the ball simmons can run point it's going to be fine he was supposed to be conceivably this 50 40 85 percentage guy who could slash and kick and get the lane he has the spin move yeah he has this one great move i i don't know if i buy the shoulder thing 100 i wonder how much of this is psychological

I wonder if his shoulder hurts a little bit So yesterday afternoon Fultz's agent, Raymond Brothers Spoke to Woj Said Fultz has been Trying to gut it out for the team He had some fluid Drained from his shoulder

But he's trying his best. First of all, don't say anything, Raymond Brothers. Don't, yeah. Don't say anything. And then. Don't say gut it out for the team. It's game four. Later in the day.

Nobody needs to hear from you. He walks it back and says, actually, I got the direction of the fluid wrong. It wasn't getting taken out. He got a cortisone shot in. I misspoke. Right. The point still stands. He's got shoulder problems.

So then this morning, our time, Sixers put him on ice for three days. They're going to check out the shoulder. They're essentially, I think, the big picture is they are taking him out of the public eye. They do not want the eyes of America on Markel Fultz against Dallas or whatever the next game is. Smart. And so he's going to sit for a couple of games. And Colangelo, Brian Colangelo, gave a press conference today in which I think he sold me a used Honda. I'm not sure.

And talked about structural damage, how there wasn't any structural damage. He's got a lot of confidence as a kid, but he's maybe lacking some confidence. And it was just a lot of double speak and stuff like that. And it's just another bungled Sixers medical situation and so that's let's go there first there's three components of this one is that this is now fourth or fifth time in the last four years yeah so where the Sixers medical staff has done a complete disservice to one of their young players and not just like oh we screwed screwed up Hollis Thompson's shoulder. It's like these guys are huge investments.

Not that I love Hollis Thompson, but this is like you can't screw these guys up. You've thrown away four to five years here to try to build around these three people. You cannot misdiagnose anything about those people at any point in time. And yet we've seen it over and over again. And last year was a little sinister because they made it seem like Ben Simmons was going to come back. And then as soon as the season ticket deadline passed, when they got everybody's money,

they were like, they shut them down. There's theories like that. There's not a theory. That's what happened. And there's been a series of, um, like even this year with the MB minutes limit,

which, which was, I, of course, like I've like other Sixers guys talk about this. Like he's a valuable, precious piece. You have to have a minutes limit. You can't just be like, okay, go out there, play 38 minutes a game. He's also enormous.

He's not going to play that much. But because of the way it got messaged, whether it was like sources say or whatever, it's like, oh, MB is only going to play 15 minutes a game. And everybody freaked out. And MB was like, say or whatever it's like oh mb's only gonna play 15 minutes a game and everybody freaked out and mb was like it's bullshit the messaging has been really badly and they seem to not have a right handle on how crazy their fan base is and i mean crazy in a good way for the most part a great way yeah their fan base has suffered through four horrible years to get to the point they got to this summer and the excitement and the hype and all that stuff was just ratcheted up to unrealistic proportions.

There was nobody in this whole Philly franchise to be like, hey, wait a second. We're young. We're not a playoff team yet. We're building around all young people who haven't done anything yet. Let's calm it down. Joel Embiid, this is what KOC was talking about when we're all talking in the slack about it like manage the expectations not on the public but manage your players a little bit joel and bead

it's not good for you to start feuds with people and talk shit and act like you're a five-time all-star when you play 31 games i don't see the thing i don't mind about i don't i like that because why one because one thing the Sixers have lacked is like, like a competitive spirit in the last couple of years. They now have a guy who's like, I don't care who I'm playing. Like why? I mean like we,

if we like it in Draymond, we don't like it in Embiid. Draymond's done stuff. Yeah, I know. But like, I mean like I, I don't,

I don't feel like what Embiid is doing is like talking trash when he has no, like, I feel like what he's doing is he's like, I'm not going to get let anybody punk this team anymore i think humility is i'm not interested in humility and nba come on what is this what are you talking about they're playing you wanted to be bob corker playing forward for you like young team that hasn't done jack shit yet that's fine yeah like that's fine settle down everybody but if andre drummond's talking trash and Embiid thinks he can punk Drummond, then I'm glad Embiid's talking back to him. I guess.

Why is Joel Embiid shooting threes? Why isn't he in the basket? Because he can. Is that where you want him? You want him 25 feet from the basket? I don't love Embiid playing the Garnett spot out on the top of the key. I'd like him to get closer to the basket. Because he's 7'3"?

That's your expert opinion? And I also think that he's in Simmons' way a little bit. I think that there's like a little, you cannot have two 7' guys standing at the top of the key trying to run stuff. Yeah. I think they've put this team together as a collection of assets

without really any thought to how all those assets move together because they weren't interested in that. It was just like, let's get assets, let's get assets. It's only been a couple games. They played really well against the Wizards. They beat the Pistons. This this is the thing is that the narrative about the team gets away from like the team itself and that's the job of the guys in the

front office is to control that narrative is to like make it so that these guys can do their work and get better but i'm saying they haven't done their job the front office i think the front office has done a terrible yeah i agree with you i with you. It doesn't seem like they even realize. How are we having a Markel Fultz press conference? But I'm not even talking about that. I'm saying it doesn't even seem like they've put real thought and energy into how all of these guys would play together and what positions they would be in. Why is JJ Redick on this team for $23 million for one year?

What was the point of that? To teach them how to be NBA players. What does that mean? So that they're not all a bunch of kids out on the road together who have never done this before. Why do you have to spend $23 million on that? Why do you have to spend 11,

you've spent $34 million on two guys. One of them can't play. But it's not my money. If they want to do it, what were they going to do otherwise? I think it actually gives, it stretches the floor. It has a couple of guys around there

who are like, this is how you treat your body on the road. This is when you should go to sleep. You got to do this. You got to get on the plane. All this stuff. Jared Bayless can't do that? You're going to have him on the team.

Ben Simmons has been the breakout under 21 guy, other than maybe, I mean, Tatum, Fox, and Markkinen, I think have been really good. Right. I think you look at those three guys and you go. And Dennis Smith has been like, is Dennis Smith playing? I'll watch been really good. Right. I think you look at those three guys and you go. And Dennis Smith has been like, is Dennis Smith playing? I'll watch for five minutes.

Like he's been, but it's just in case he dunks on somebody. He's going to be a great fantasy guy and a fun guy for social media. Yeah. I don't know if he'll be the guy who's leading a conference finalist, but we'll see.

He's fun. To get him at the ninth pick is great. Marketing's been the big revelation for me what do you think is behind all this scrutiny on the rookies this year why are we so like it's because the mba is a 12 month a year sport and now it's 24 hours and now it's like well the false thing's really bad because they traded up for him yeah that it's one thing like if they had the first round pick and then we like this guy let's take him but they actually when you make a trade like the one they made now you're saying he's a sure thing which is what people felt like when we were at

the lottery right but then the Celtics didn't like something and I still don't know what they well this is the sort of underlying part about it is I would feel better about all this if it had had nothing to do with Danny Ainge but like I'm not comfortable with the fact that I'm one I'm like I think this kid is going to be really good. I really do think he'll be fine. But I don't like the fact that Danny Ainge had him in, was taking pictures of him up against posters of Bob Cousy going up on Boston social media.

And two days later was happy to get rid of the pick. I still feel that I think this was really badly mismanaged from an organizational standpoint. Because when you have a young team like this, the one thing you don't want is hype, expectations, we've arrived, all that shit. Just publicly, you have to throw water on people and be like, these guys are all young. They have never played together.

We have no real idea if it makes sense to have Embiid and Ben Simmons and then other tall guys on the court at the same time. We're going to experiment. We think Ben Simmons is a point guard. We're not positive. We think Fultz can play off the ball. We don't know. He's 19.

They didn't manage that at all, and I think that was their mistake. So Fultz shoots three free throws. People freak out. And then it's like the sky is falling. It's because their over-under was 41, and people thought this was a playoff team. It's absurd. I also think that it doesn't help that his personality obviously

isn't very domineering right now. And you look at De'Aaron Fox. If De'Aaron Fox was having a terrible time from the field or from the line, you'd still be like, but this kid is great. He gives great quotes. He plays his ass off. He's already like a face-up defender

to go after guys. Fultz has got like a more reserved personality I don't love doing body language doctor stuff but it's not great like his you know I love well you can tell he's just like I'm not sure where I'm supposed to stand you know what I mean I'm not sure what he's a rookie though exactly but like there's an assertive way to be like that and there is like a way where you can kind of like I'm gonna I play basketball before I know how to do this like you know I'll, I'll just, I'll just do what I, you know, like I'll do the things I need to do. And then there is like, why am I down on the baseline?

I don't know what part of the play I'm supposed to be in. Or if you're JJ Redick, you're like, so I'm just going to stand here. We're going to run off a screen. I still don't think Simmons is a point guard ultimately. I think he's somebody who run the offense through. But the thing I don't like about how they're using him, and I know his stats have been good, I just like when he's around the basket.

I think his hands and feet are so quick, and he just has this uncanny ability to just know where to go and what to do. And to just pull him out of the play doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I also think as you keep playing, meaning the Sixers, the smart teams are just going to play 10 feet off him. They already are. They're sagging. It's going to be beyond sagging.

But if he can use that sagging to initiate offense by getting into the lane, if he can develop like a floater, if he can become a threat at the hoop, then everything is going to start collapsing. And if people are like, oh, we're going to play off Simmons because he's not going to pull up from three then he can get into the lane and start driving and kicking and then that will open up the whole offense there is some it's a little bit similar to the uh anthony davis boogie combo where you watch them and you go there's some way this should be working an awesome way from a just a geometry spacing standpoint yeah

like when boogie when they throw it to boogie davis really doesn't know where to go and what to do yeah you just see him he's kind of like ah shit all right i'm ready to run in as soon as you shoot but they haven't there seems to be like bird and mikhail they always figured out bird would be in the top and he'd feed mikhail and they kind of just figured out the spacing i think it's harder to do in the when the guy who's throwing it in can't shoot yeah but it does seem like there's some geometry thing that they could figure out i i'm sure that there's some way in which simmons and bead and faults like work together they just have to have like i mean you just look at brooklyn last night it's like

they have zero expectations yeah they have the highest scoring offensive league and the worst defense in the league and they're all having fun because they have zero expectations yeah they have the highest scoring offensive league and the worst defense in the league and they're all having fun because they have zero expectations yeah and they're whipping the ball around and chucking threes and everybody out there seems like they're six six like they're all the guys are either like a small forward or a power forward i can't yeah it's like lavert and ronde and d'angelo and like there's just zero expectations but they can go out there and just like find their way into their identity in a way that the Sixers don't have that chance right now

here's my fear with Fultz and just for the record I don't care like I want Fultz to be good because I like basketball like that trumps the Celtics part of this the Celtics got a great guy and a great pick like it doesn't matter how Fultz does with the Celtics like Tatum's good you know that trade you do that trade a hundred times even if Fultz becomes a seven-time All-Star.

Griffin had this quote. David Griffin, the old Cavs GM, had this quote about Anthony Bennett where he said, the issue with Anthony, this is from The Athletic, who has the asshole CEO. The issue with Anthony, this is the quote the issue with anthony was and we had no way of knowing at the time the kid had no desire to overcome adversity whatsoever as soon as it was hard he was out his whole life he rolled out of a bed bigger better and more talented than anyone else as soon as it was hard it was over and i was the one on campus at unlv i'm

the one who got sold the bill of goods and i bought it hook line and sinker you fuck up sometimes but I feel bad Chris Grant took it for that because Chris was the one guy who wasn't sure so there's a lot to unpack with that but basically he's saying as soon as it got hard for Anthony Bennett he folded and that's the fear with faults right now it's like it's hard for him for the first time not worried about that i'm 10 that quote is also very like that that no it's self it's incredibly self-serving it's like oh the he came to valhalla the cleveland cavaliers at that time i don't remember the calves that fondly at that time and he's like anthony bennett just dropped the ball there it's like come on yeah maybe well but i do think we've seen he also have like undiagnosed sleep apnea i mean yeah we've seen it with nba players where they hit adversity and they might not handle it

great. And this is an incredible amount of tension for a rookie. As you said earlier, I don't remember rookies being dissected like this. I don't remember watching rookies. Lonzo has had three different story arcs already. He's played three games. First game, he's a disaster. Second game, oh, Lonzo.

And then third game, eh. But it's almost like because, game he's a disaster second game oh alonzo and then third game but it's almost like because and it's not even him it's his dad and it's everything around him is almost like turning into the spin where they're like it's a circus like like yeah lonzo no way alonzo loses twice in one week okay john wall's coming in to destroy him tonight you know like that is now making it almost like strangely uh uh like a like a circus about every night he plays and it almost suits his game it's strangely strangely he seems unperturbed by the fact that like every night a point guard might come after him you know whereas like with faults and this whole situation it seems like they're not prepared for the scrutiny when and their medical staff're not prepared for the scrutiny.

And their medical staff wasn't prepared for whatever the fuck is going on. I have no idea what's happening with this. I don't understand it. I don't understand the misdiagnosis is the lack of diagnosis is the lack of a treatment plan. You just never, for so many other basketball teams,

it's like guy hurt his wrist. He's out two, three weeks. Nobody blinks twice. Nobody blinks twice. Nobody says like, oh, is it really his wrist? Does he need fluid drain from it or put back into it? Is nobody says like oh is it really his wrist does he need fluid drain from it or put back into it is it a fracture or is it a strain but that's why

what the agent did it was so well it was just so reckless yeah what the fuck are you doing you've just created a new story where there was no new story people didn't know what was wrong with faults yeah and now i mean obviously something was wrong i mean i guess like i could sort of see i don't look if his if it started out the season, it was like, Fultz has a bad shoulder, he can't start the season. I don't think Sixers fans would have been psyched, but it's not like we're not used to it.

We didn't see him bead for two years. We didn't see Simmons for a full year. We're used to having to wait. So the weird thing about this is this play-through-it stuff. I think Simmons is the only unequivocal sure thing out of those three guys. Yeah.

Simmons is like, you watch him for two games, like wow, that guy's 15 years. It's something, I don't remember, Masai's about to, we taped it yesterday, but he's about to come on the pod. I don't remember if he said this on the podcast or when we were talking after, but he was talking about in college,

you don't have the same amount of space that you have in the pros. And when people get to the pros, sometimes they get that space and they just love it. Do you mean off court, like the space to be alone? Or literally on the court? On the court. Because in college, it's 40 minutes.

Everybody's going full speed all the time. Yeah, the coach is calling a timeout every 90 seconds. All this shit. And in the NBA, it just calms down. People know where to go and what to do. And he was saying, you know, some guys, they just love it. And I think Simmons is one of those guys. And you could see it.

I was a big fan of his at OSU. Then he came into the Sixers last year, and he was so much bigger. He also had a year to adjust to not being at OSU. then he came into the sixers last year and he was so much bigger he also had a year to adjust to like not being in lsu now he's like in the pros i mean even like the other night tatum was talking about how um like they got back from some game at two in the morning and then they were like yeah we're like there's another game tomorrow and he was like what are you talking about because he had misread the schedule and he's like i just can't believe how much we're playing yeah and like that stuff like you take it for granted but and yeah you just look at the schedule but these kids

are like overwhelmed by that they're playing more than twice as many games in a season than they've ever played before and they're kids yeah but i think uh you know the lsu i watched a lot of him that year a lot of personally at stake because my son and him have the same name sure wanted to make sure he's not going to be like the player of all time. That would have been weird. But that LSU team, it was so poorly run. His teammates, he just had a weird team. And I do think he checked out, which I think was a real concern. And I was really worried about his competitiveness,

because I didn't like how he checked out at LSU. And it just seemed like he just wanted to get to the NBA. Then you watch him in these NBA games. It's like, all right, that's fine. Cross that concern off. i still don't it's gonna be hard to imagine him having a 25 foot shot but after watching aaron gordon drain threes last night i think anything's possible it's the old kg thing aaron gordon's stroke down is nice because he's gonna be like if he gets that that's that's a wrap man he's really really good simmons simmons is like a top 10 second first second team all nba possible potential guy

i think imbeed has the talent i just i'm not convinced he can play 60 games just show me let's see it once yeah you know simmons is sims is fine and he probably could have played last year right i the word is that he could have played towards the end of the season yeah and then faults even though it's been really strange like there are some things he's shown already that are the highest possible level on base stuff like that spin movie as is freaking awesome yeah you know i mean even just in like a few minutes of watching him in summer league when he before he hurt his ankle and before i think before the shoulder was really bothering him you could just see he was a guy who was able to just pull up right off of like the little bit of daylight which is something that

we really need but it was a 20 footer yeah the question is can he stretch out at 24 this is summer league this is like no i know yeah but like uh bradley beal you know you watch bradley beal and it's just like it's it's just like he's like a robot. It's just effortless, 25 footers. I thought Fultz was going to be like that. This is a great example though. It's like Bradley Beal we thought was like Bruce Willis from – Yeah, we thought he was unbreakable.

Yeah, and it's like is this kid ever going to be able to play a full season much less 60 games? And now what is he like a top five shooting guard in the NBA? No, I brought up Bradley Beal just because that's kind of what i thought faults was going to be as a but he's so good is what i'm saying is like it was like just because he has a shoulder like he was like almost pushing from the right side of his body which makes me think maybe he really is hurt yeah i don't know part of it might be mental too the bennett thing worries me though because we've seen, we've just seen guys over the years who have these crazy expectations

and once it gets in their head. Who else was in that Bennett class? Which one? Who else was in the Bennett class? The draft class. Well, that was a weird draft. Yeah. That was like,

I mean, I just don't understand how so many people could be so wrong about one guy. Well, the Bennett thing was, when they took him, it was crazy. We thought he was going to go like eighth. Yeah, but that was not what Fultz was Fultz was like a presumptive like the consensus number one I think the only thing some like should it be Lonzo and some like whoa Josh I'm pretty glad we don't have Josh Jackson you know what I mean like there was like Josh Jackson talk if you had stayed at three and taken Fox I think you'd have been fine

yeah well I mean don't ask me. I want a Monk. Yeah, he's been terrible. I was just like, I saw Monk score 43 points. I'm buying everyone's Monk stock, whoever's selling Monk. I'm not selling. It's an incredible draft, though. I'm a founding member of the corporation. I can't. Oh, that's right. You don't have any left. No, it's been an awesome draft.

I think we're going to look at this draft, and it's going to be one of the all-timers. It's great for watching League Pass because every game has somebody in it where you're like, I got to watch Mark in it for a few minutes. Where does Sarge fit into all this? Well, Sarge is tough because he's my favorite sixer.

He also needs the ball and plays like it's 1987. It's just this beautiful, slow slow kind of almost like like an antelope with rubber bands tied around its legs like you can like like is he gonna make it like through the basket and then it's like oh he did like a reverse layup how'd that happen or he threw like a behind the back no look pass i just don't know it'll be really interesting with a lot of these teams like how they start staggering minutes and taking a really good player and putting them up against backups i mean you saw oklahoma do that uh with um against the wolves to get back in the game they basically had mellow out there with like felton and abrinas against a terrible wolves bench and they made up a huge lead a huge deficit sarge could be

the best player on their second unit sarge folz second unit should be good he's kind of overqualified to be that sure and and but I think that right now it's like you can't have another guy who's big and needs the ball out on the court at the same time with Simmons Embiid Covington looks good too Rocco looks great he looks awesome I the funny thing about the Sixers is I don't think they have any chance to make the playoffs and yet they have eight players I really like. Yeah, they're deep now. It's crazy. It's a really likable roster.

I'm not sure where Redick fits in on it. Redick just might be somebody who should just be on veteran teams. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Like where, if anything, the Clippers tried to get him too involved last year but there's some sort of middle ground. Do you think that there could be like a Redick?

Can Redick get traded in the deadline? That's the thing you guys have. That was, I think the reason they did the Amir, because now you have $34 million of contracts you can flip. But I mean, they have to figure out the faults thing and they cannot put him in a

position to fail like that. If he's hurt, don't play him. Yeah. LeBron just said that this morning. If he's hurt, I don't understand why he's playing. This goes back to the organizational thing we were talking about at the beginning,

which I think the organization's the real villain here. If the guy's hurt, don't play him. That first game against Washington, that was like an event. That's the thing. It's not like we're being run by Tom Thibodeau. I don't know where this came from where it's like, gut it out. It's like, gut it out. You fucking kidding me?

Gut it out? We haven't gutted it out in four years these guys have all been on in bubble wrap for four years like let's let let him like get his shoulder fixed it was almost like they were more worried it was going to be a story if he sat out a couple games to start the year then if he played games and i think that there's a disconnect between what faults thinks is wrong with him what the sixers thinkers on with him and that's the problem that seems to be the problem we're sure this isn't mental I don't I wouldn't have any reason to say that I don't know

there's nothing about him where I'm like this kid is faking a shoulder injury and like reconstructing his shot for no reason I don't think he's faking it I just think maybe he's hurt and maybe he's I don't know it's like we've seen this happen in golf and in baseball where somebody can get a mental hiccup on something and they and it gets in their head and then they i don't know we got to fix this though because we need faults i was

when you watch this simmons and bead combo now what i thought faults was going to be in my head it actually makes perfect sense if this is like the guy with 25 foot range who can also slash and kick and spin move and hit somebody for a dunk that is the perfect third guy for this yeah and would have been worth the trade up i still think that has a chance to be one of the great trades i need more from tj mcconnell now more than ever tj looks good yeah i like tj this still has a chance to be one of the great trades because tatum's a beast. The Tatum-Jalen combo. Are you saying to me that this has a chance to be one of the best trades, the great trades for you?

For you guys? No, for both sides. I'm talking about like... Yeah. If Fultz is what we think he should be, it's a great trade. We were talking about this last night. If you could go back in time,

would you just scoot the three and take Tatum? And I wouldn't. I just think you'd go for it. Well, not with the for the team you have no and i also just don't i would never i wanted it was lonzo's the one that lonzo would have fit in pretty nice yeah he would have been pretty good he's fine lonzo would have been really fun then we'd have like too many guys who don't shoot at gunpoint you'd take lonzo come on i take Monk. Lonzo would be fun. Lonzo with Simmons, with the way they use Simmons and the fact that when you watch Lonzo he never has the ball for more than a second.

Having Rubio and White Jason Williams passing. But they're different though. Simmons needs the ball. Lonzo doesn't really ever want to have the ball because if you stand next to him, he gets rid of it as fast as possible. I know. He just does a touch pass every time he I'm not positive Lonzo can dribble. I don't know.

Does Lonzo have a handle? It's okay. I think Patrick Beverly would point out some flaws with his handle. My biggest fear with Lonzo is we saw it twice with Fox in the NCAA. And he's on that Beverly thing too. And even just when you're watching very carefully, it just doesn't seem like he wants to be pressured ever. Well, he will find out about that tonight against the Wizards.

I feel like John Wall is going to follow him around for a while. You know what the Lakers fans, you can't bring up to them? Is the Russell trade. That's a bad trade. He looks really good. Not only does he look good. We got Kuzma. Congratulations.

I'm pretty sure you could have gotten the 27th pick from someone else. He had a little bit of a classic Kyrie game. It was like 25 and one assist last night. Yeah. But his demeanor on the court is totally different. And his body looks different. He's taking it very seriously. Yeah.

He understands that he is definitely the best scorer on that team, but those guys are not like, ah, he's gunning. Don't you feel like he's filled out? To me, he looks like a James Harden type of body now. Yeah. He just feels like, what is he, like 6'4"? And he does the same thing where he'll get into the lane, throw the brakes on, guys go on his back,

he gets a foul, shoots a five-footer. He's for real. If he can figure out his three like he was clanging him at the end of the night I think he was tired last night against the Magic he missed the game winner

how about the NBA I know Magic Nets is just like a blast I watched I was watching Nets Hawks during football on Sunday which is a terrible game

between two teams that won't make the playoffs I was riveted yeah I was like wow look at the Nets look at DeMaric Carroll Russell's that was a big fuck up

how about this don't give up on guys who are not 22 yet yeah who are high lottery picks like he they better get lebron is is if you're gonna do that trade you better 100 know lebron is coming in a year all right chris ryan that wasn't that bad right no i feel okay it's nice to come in and share okay i'm glad i was here for you let's take a break talk about me undies they make feel good undies your butt will be proud to wear do you wear me undies chris i do wear me undies yeah most comfortable pair of underwear i've ever owned tons of styles and patterns to choose from for both men and ladies me undies will have the perfect fit for any personality the me and his feeling is unmatched i think that's a good verb for this because they use a naturally soft fabric that is three times softer than cotton for a limited time

only check out me and his first ever glow in the dark print lights out why not update your underwear draw and glow at the same time and if underwear is in your thing me and his also makes the softest socks in the world right now you'll save% off your first pair and receive free shipping only at MeUndies.com. If you don't love the first pair of MeUndies, they're free. 100% satisfaction. Guaranteed. Go to MeUndies.com. Get 20% off, free shipping, and 100% satisfaction guarantee on the best softest underwear you'll ever own. Before I get to Mas messiah we did the rewatchables live that podcast is going up this week face off we did in front of like 250 people at largo about 150 of which saw face off before but everybody seemed to enjoy it did a q a after which you'll

hear if you listen to rewatchables and we thought it was gonna be q a about basketball the website yeah they were all these thought out faceoff questions that we hadn't considered yet. That was super fun, though. Thanks to everybody who came out. And then the next one after that, I think, is The Fugitive, right? Yeah, that's next week. So if you guys are looking to try and watch the movies before the pod, it goes face-off and then The Fugitive.

Ringer NBA show. You're on there Thursdays? Well, we're doing Sources Today and then Thursdays we do group chat with me and Justin and Haley. Okay. And then The Watch as well. Monday and Thursdays. You're doing a lot of stuff. Yeah.

All right. Chris Ryan, thank you. Let's quickly talk about Sonos. Want to experience TV, movies, and music with sound you can feel from a speaker you'll hardly notice? Playbase from Sonos gives you just that. Look, I can't remember how many terrible home audio systems I've had over the years. Playbase is low profile design. Practically disappears beneath your TV only.

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This offer is available for a limited time only. It cannot be combined with other discounts or promotions. Use promo code SIMMONS10, SIMMONS10, at Sonos.com to receive this exclusive offer. See for yourself. Go to Sonos.com to learn more. That is Sonos.com, SIMMONS10. Okay, here it is. Musayu Jiri fascinating guy

GM of the Raptors and had a crazy kind of path to get where he is and we talked about that we talked about the NBA where stuff's going a whole bunch of stuff

it's awesome here we go Musayu Jiri in my office give me all the ways people have mispronounced your name too crazy

you got it you got it. You got it right. You got it very, very close, but I've seen. I was close. I wasn't right. What is the exact pronunciation? Ujiri. Ujiri. Yes, you got it right. Yeah. Some people go Uheri. Yeah, Uheri.

I hear all kinds of stuff with my name, but I guess it's a tough name. Now you've had some success. I think people are starting to nail it. You've been in basketball in the NBA. I did some research for this one. 2002, you're an unpaid assistant for the Orlandolando magic you are unpaid walk me through that one

how are you eating every day where are you getting money so i i think i saved up a little bit uh playing professionally in europe and that wasn't even a lot of a lot of money um but um i was living uh with one of my friends in washington dc who was staying in a little studio apartment so that was uh that helped it was cheap uh loops every day yeah fruit loops every day and um those those meals you cook that last like for four days yeah mac and cheese mac and cheese and we eat a lot we ate a lot of african food were you playing hoop still or you just like you just no i stopped playing in europe and i came back and my goal was to get into college coaching uh if i could and coaching yes okay yeah and i wanted to um i really wanted to do that and had a great friend in David Thorpe.

Oh, yeah, my LDSP teammate. Yeah, and he introduced me to all the coaches, basically. And I began to kind of know them, work camps, Leonard Hamilton, Billy Donovan, all the camps. And still I couldn't, I was helping a lot of kids from Africa come to college. So I was a little bit popular with the college coaches, which helped me a lot. But at this time, Coach Thrope introducing me to all these coaches, he was working out prospects to be going into the NBA, and I would go and help him out in Tampa. And a prospect, Uche Osonu, who played in Wisconsin, came to work out.

Yeah. And was going to work out with the Orlando Magic. And so I drove him to the workout. He had put his name in the draft. And the Orlando Magic, he went into the workout and they didn't let me in. So I just drove him. And after the workout, he came out. And I went to lunch with him and the five prospects he was working out with, with Gary Brokaw, who was the director of player personnel at the time, and John Gabriel was the…

Oh, the Orlando GM, yeah. Yes, the Orlando GM, and Doc Rivers was coach. Yeah. us was coach yeah yeah so um right when we had at lunch um brokaw gets a phone call and um one of a prospect canceled and he asked me if i would bring uche back to replace that prospect in a couple days and he would allow me into the workout and so while we're at lunch we started talking and i started telling him about all the prospects i knew in europe and college and blah blah blah basically running my mouth and he found it pretty pretty interesting and that one prospect canceling and you get a

break i got a break that's how i that's how i'm here today it's unbelievable i got into the practice. John Gabriel came to me and sat with me for a little bit. He was really nice. Doc Rivers came over, sat with me. They were very nice. And John Gabriel said, Gary Brokaw told me, you know a lot about European basketball. Our European scout has a little issue right now. And if you want to work with me, work with us, give me a call. I wrote his number on a piece of paper. I tell you, Bill, I called every day for like six months. Every day I called John. Finally, they told me to come to Orlando.

So they were like, Masai's on the phone again. What should I tell him? I know. I'm not here. I'm not here. It's one of those that I don't know what they even say. Yeah. Bugging and bugging.

And finally, they get me to Orlando. And they get me to evaluate an NBA game. Yeah. And they're playing the Clippers. And I evaluated like three guys and they decided to let me work for them, you know, like just almost like a volunteer. Yeah. But that's, I mean, a lot of guys have gotten in the NBA being like, oh, you're going to open the door for me one inch? I'm in.

Take it. I'll do whatever. Take it. It's what I advise people, you know, like bust your butt and do it. And just traveling around, like the next year I got offered a couple full-time jobs from the one I took was with Denver. Yeah. With Kiki Vandewa and jeff weltman and um my first full-time job are you to blame for the tishkavili pick or no um i tell jeff i was the year after that the year after okay who's whose game did you have when you were a

player what were you Were you like a... I was one of those. I was one of the guys that you say, you know, like that can't shoot. And I learned to shoot in Europe. You were like a 3 and D guy who couldn't shoot threes? Yeah, I couldn't shoot. I couldn't shoot. And then I learned to shoot in Europe.

So athletic, could jump, but couldn't shoot. And you grew up in Nigeria? I grew up in Nigeria. I was born in England, but I only lived there for nine months. And my parents moved back to Nigeria. So you're in like elementary school, high school when Hakeem is the best player in the world because Michael Jordan retired briefly. Yes. And Hakeem was the man. Hakeem was unbelievable. I wrote about Hakeem in my book. I think it's a one in a billion chance you could ever replicate his career. And I just don't think we'll ever see

a basketball player like that again because it's such a fluke. You have this guy who is one of the best athletes we've ever had in basketball, but he played soccer until he was 15 and learned this whole different footwork balance thing. And then all of a sudden, somebody just threw him a basketball.

He's like, oh, all right, I'll try this and just came at it from this way. I don't think it ever gets replicated. You should watch him teach. It's unbelievable. I've seen how many guys there, you know, like thinking that, you know, like, hey, you could get something from this footwork. But a great friend, great person, you know, unbelievable person has this gym in houston in the middle of nowhere you know like he has this gym yeah and and you go in and it's so absurd you know like it's in the it's on a ranch

or something and you drive how long to get there and the gym is just sitting there and, it's just the echoes of a ball. And there's this big picture of his jersey or something, you know, like, and a couple of his shoes there. And it's a nice NBA gym, I mean, practice floor and gym. And he just teaches. And it's incredible how he teaches. I took JaVale McGee, Jonas jonas valentinas even damar went um quite a few is like a big footwork yeah yeah he's become he's become one of the better footwork guys in the kd i did a kd pod this summer and he said he admired the rosen's footwork the most out of anybody yeah when i think of footwork i think of akim i think of obviously jordan you know but kobe became so

good with with footwork kevin mckale kevin mckale is another one yeah man incredible yeah i think in this era now you know like damar has kind of mastered it in some kind of way that you know like is unique a little bit people people pay attention to it so i was I know it's tough for you to talk about other teams' players, but I was excited. Poor Zingas. I noticed he had a couple of footwork additions to his game this year. There was a little touch of McHale, like a little drop step thing. And I was wondering with the way basketball is going.

I mean, you're part of the crusade of ruining basketball, which is shooting threes. Your team, they is shoot threes and layups now but i worry about the big guys if you're 15 why would you even work on your footwork i think he'll come back 25 feet away and just shoot threes every day for your entire life i think he'll come back i think maybe if if the akims and those guys you know like come about again there's no way you can. But when do they come about?

Those are generational players, right? So 15-year-old Hakim, he comes into America. Is he shooting threes? Is 2017, 15, 17-year-old Hakim, is he even thinking about low post stuff? He's not, but he's running i think he's running uh which i think uh he's jumping he's catching lobs and i think um he'll figure out he figures out a way you know like to play yeah to play in one-on-one situations you know which i think if a lot of the big guys now you know like if they can play in one-on-one situations, you know, which I think if a lot of the big guys now,

you know, like if they can play in one-on-one situations, they're all playing the dunker now with the system. But I think guys like that will figure a way. It's the heavy-footed ones, you know, like I don't know how that would work now, you know, like, but the athletic I think, would figure it out. I mean, basketball, just in the last four years, you think there was this whole Roy Hibbert conversation in 2012, 2013. This is the future of basketball.

Rim protect, horizontal, stick your arms up. And then in two years, people figure out how to play those guys off the court. You've had to deal with some of that with Jonas, who kills my favorite team, the Celteltics he's always just destroyed us but um a lot of teams have figured out a way to just basically put him in space and make it so that toronto has to make a choice do we do we give up a little on this end and pound on the other end and it's like this become the seesaw i'm sure you guys must talk about constantly well he's he's he's now uh i think he's figured it out now where he's he's playing in the dunker um and posting up less um yeah so um doing a lot of handling the ball instead of waiting to be thrown the ball in the post you know like which is i think became easier to defend in this day and age. And so now he's leaner, he runs better, and you have to adjust.

But I think he'll change again, though, Bill. I really think the style of play, we say it, before it was the vertical, just a couple of years ago. But somebody will invent something, somebody will come up with something whatever you come up with it had you have to win you know where if you win people copy what copycat lead true yeah i think um uh people tried um this system george car did it, you know. Like, I used to be like, okay, so why are we, you know, like, playing a, we have two really good big guys, you know,

and why are we playing a shooting four, you know, like, I'm playing smaller. Yeah. When you're playing against Bynum and Gasol, you know, like, and then George would play Al Harrington, you know, like, for instance, at the four and stretching the floor and trying thoseington, you know, like, for instance, at the four. And stretching the floor and trying those things, you know. But we never won big or a championship, you know. I think Phoenix played that way, you know, like years ago.

Came close. Came close, you know. I mean, shit, like the 2008 Celtics, their best lineup was the lineup that I KG at the five and shooters all around basically. And Pierce playing up. Yep. And we never, it's funny.

I was watching game four of in 2008, the finals against the Lakers when the Celtics made the big comeback. And Van Gundy is like talking about the lineup. It's like, well, this is what happens here is Eddie House spreads the floor and it allows him to do this, this, and this. And he's basically spelling out what's about to happen to basketball,

but nobody realized it. They think it's just this gimmick lineup. The Celtics said they were still playing Big Baby and KG together, Leon Poe and KG, Perkins and KG. And now it's shifted back. But I agree with you. The history of basketball says these little trends last about four or five years, and they flip.

Remember the mid-'80s? It was Samson Olajuwon, and it was Parrish, McHale, Walton. And then with the Lakers, the Lakers tried to get big to match everybody. That one year it didn't work. Then they went the other way. They played worthy at the power forward, played AC Green. All of a sudden, then people are starting to emulate them. No question.

So I think you might be right. The one thing I worry about is and i'm sure you see with all these kids you're getting involved with is just the 15 year olds where they just they're like how do i get in the nba i have to shoot threes instead of playing basketball i think um for me uh the talent is the is the is the first thing and and um i think the way the the game is played now the basic fundamentals are so vital to these kids you know like so it's not we're not looking at the running and jumping as much as you know like shooting and footwork and all those things you know like that make um that make make players now produce in certain ways. But honestly, I think it will change again, you know, like it's just a matter of time, you know, like we are a trendy league, you know, like and we are copycat, you know, like we just go with the waves,

you know, like and whatever is going, hey, you know, like everybody tries to go as long as somebody won, you know, like doing it, you know. So like take Bruno. I did that draft. Yes. You took him in front for sure. I said he's two years away from being two years away or whatever his quote was, which was hilarious. And now five years away from. Yeah.

So what'd you see in somebody like him? Because he was so raw at that point. Yes. But you saw something. Well, you see, we saw the shooting ability. And then you see the length, 7'7 wingspan. You see a young kid that's passionate about the game. And sometimes I wonder if I should have left him longer,

you know, like over there to develop a little bit more. Yeah. But I also wanted to see, you know, like, because sometimes they don't concentrate on weights. They don't concentrate on him getting stronger. And we've concentrated on that. And it's still been a long process. And then we didn't have the D-League team for a couple of years. So when you're buried, you know, like before we have the D-League team for a couple years. So when you're buried,

you know, like before we purchased the D-League team, it was difficult for him to play anywhere, you know, and you can shoot all you want and develop all you want if you're not playing games. Right, you need to be out there. Yeah, it leaves you out there. But it's a work in progress. It's young kids in the league. And at some point, it has to get to a point where you say, you know what, are you doing this or are you not? Do you have to move on from it? And he's close, you know.

We think he's close, but it's still a process. He's gained, he's mastering a couple of things, sometimes off the court too, bringing kids from other parts of the world, you know, like there's so much adjustment here that you don't know. Yeah. Language, culture, all those things, you know. Having money.

No? Having money, having girls in the hotel lobby, all those things, you know. Having money. No? Having money, having girls in the hotel lobby. All that stuff. Somebody Instagramming you and you're not looking. Yeah. That's why I'm so amazed by Giannis. You know, I did that draft and it was almost like he was like this mythological draft pick. We were watching the videos.

We don't know if the rims are 10 feet and you know you know his background it's like wow this is a real roll of the dice but he's got these long hands there's a lot of talk about how long he is long hands and but then you see what he's become over the last four years and now it's like i feel like he's gonna throw the draft totally out out of whack because the needle in the haystack pick where you end up with that, now it's going to incentivize everybody to look for that next version of that. And I think, I don't know if we see that again. I think Giannis is, I mean, literally he's the freak. I don't know if that ever happens again. Yeah, it's unbelievable how much the world knows about the NBA.

You know, like, you'll be amazed, you know, like, how much the, just traveling in Africa, even in the summer, and I sometimes wish there was more facilities over there, you know, like, because you see all these freaks you see all these you know like long guys tall guys you know like athletic looking you know like but there's nowhere to play you know like and the and they don't have the sneakers yeah they don't have they don't have the shoes yeah and and um and that's why they're so great at soccer because you don't need any of those you know like, like it's like how we started playing ball.

We just go play, you know, like they are playing ball here and they just go play soccer without shoes. I did it, you know, like we just go right out of your mom's stomach, you know, like you're ready to play outside here, right outside your office. Guys, young kids would be playing soccer because there's a space um with basketball you need a rim you need pavement you need all that stuff you know like and and that's hard so i think with social media you know like the nba being everywhere and they've done an unbelievable job with it you know there'll be there'll be a few here and there but it there's there's always going to be a couple like that here or there sneaking you know like like here or there it's incredible you know like that we did the movie with uh abaca when i was at grandland yes and uh

and we did a podcast too and just that guy could have not been discovered in so many different ways you know it was almost like a fluke that he was discovered it's just you right person sees you at the right time of your life and then all of a sudden your life's moving in a certain direction but that easily could have not happened to him well i was coaching i was coaching the nigerian uh under 18 team and we play in the championship and we play against the bak's team in South Africa I think 2000 and I can't remember it's 2004 2005 maybe and and Ibaka had 18 points and 20 rebounds in the in the semi-final game and and then I go to Nigeria a couple months few months later I go to Nigeria to do my I'm scouting for the for the nuggets at the time i go to nigeria

to do my camps and um ibaka is playing in like one of the african championships club championships you know like i am still i did not register that you know like this guy is like an mba player type thing you know what i mean like until he gets the opportunity to go to Spain and he go he go plays and and then all of a sudden you know like we're hearing about him a little bit more and then um and I take Brian Colangelo to and we go watch him and um but it's one of those things you know like that I tell people trust me, if I knew a lot of all these African players we had, whether it's the Embiid's or the Pascal, all these guys were in basketball without borders.

But at that time, they're still raw. They haven't gone through maybe the college or European experience. Are they good enough? Can they do it? college or european experience you know like are they are they good enough you know like can they do it you know um and that's the tough thing when there's a lack of facilities over there so explain basketball without borders in 20 seconds well the nba does a remarkable job of um bring every year um host this camp in South Africa where they bring NBA coaches, NBA players, and they select kids from all over Africa, top kids, and bring them to South Africa.

And this has been like the last 10 years? It started in 2003. Oh, so the last 14. Yeah, it's about 15 years now we're going into 15th year and it's an incredible program I think the NBA has built

and now they've introduced the NBA game where they've played a couple games it's been remarkable where they play the African players

against the global it's almost like a mini all-star weekend in Africa yeah seriously yeah it turns out uh plenty community um events and community work that the nba is doing all over the continent and a guy called amadou fall who was a scout with um with the dallas mavericks now heads the nba office in

in africa and they're doing it's it's really growing you know like i'm curious to see and now you've seen the last 10 years i'm curious to see what the next 10 years is going to be yeah is there like is there potentially a westbrook that comes out of this or some sort of some sort of person becomes the face of oh yeah that's he came out of that program and then that pushes it another level right well there are quite a few now you know like uh imbeed was part of basketball without borders yes yes perfect yeah so keep him beat on the court though yeah so he's a reason he's a he's a big one gogi dang there's been quite a few you know like but you're right is that big one you know like and you're right it's that big one you know like that could be it

if he's healthy which unfortunately then and beat if he's healthy has become uh you know that's what you have to say he's played 35 games but god he's talented you know i saw him work out before the draft you did i got invited to work out before he got hurt and we where in la here in la in santa monica i wrote about it at the time because i was like this guy has to be the number one pick and i'm not a huge workout guy but it was he was seven foot three and the way he moved and it was like oh my god like this is there's no way he's not the number one pick and then he got hurt but But I would like to see that team, him and Simmons and all those guys, stay healthy for a year just because, you know, we need good basketball players.

They're a good team. The league is as talented as it's been, I think, since it's probably been 25 years. The league is in the 93, I think, the 93 range was the last time we've had this much talent in the league at the same time. It's crazy. I think it's in a great place.

I think the league is in a really good place. Like Simmons comes in in Philly. He's averaging a triple-double for the first four games basically. It's just nuts. These kids are like 19 and 20. Lots of good young kids in the league are coming up. The stars are living up to it did you ever you haven't really lived a world yet where i've talked to daryl morey about this too your teams have always

been competitive you haven't lived a world where you're like all right we're throwing away a couple seasons and rebuilding and going through the lottery would that be fun for you or you like competing too much? It's a tough question because I live in the world now where you're trying to win and you're trying to develop young players as well. Right. And it's tough. But rebuilding, I think every organization is going to go through it at some point. I don't know when that point will come.

Darrell's like, I've never had to rebuild. We've never had a high lottery pick. He loves, but it's true. Well, yeah, so he made the heart of trade, which I think helped him. But yeah, it's tough to stay relevant and good for a long period of time with this cap. Yeah, it's tough to maneuver. And as I said, I think at some point every team will go through that phase. You kind of went through it last summer, didn't you?

You had basically two paths. You could have doubled down on the team you had or you could have completely blown it up and we chose to kind of give our young guys a chance to be like our second unit and third unit and then going with our two all-stars and Serge Ibaka and Jonas

basically so we felt like we had one of the strongest benches in the NBA the nba um obviously with cory and damari and um patrick patterson pj tucker those guys you know like um but um with with the cap now you have to when you when you pay a couple guys you know like you guys you have to figure it out you know right 99.5 million or what is it something like that it's not even 100 million yep and you're paying two two huge big ticket dudes it's funny like i was looking this week because eric butzo wanted to be traded and i

i immediately went on the trade machine for three hours trying to figure out the perfect eric but so did you get it done no no i did not we're taping this on a tuesday afternoon i i ended up i had like a bucks bulls sons three-way trying to figure out could the bulls get jabari parker and it's just tough because and part of the reasons it's tough is people either making a lot of money or not a lot of money we It's turned into these guys in this price range of $14 to $25 million or like $4 million and under. And the middle class that used to be in these trades, there's not a lot of salary guys like that. And there's not a lot of expiring contracts either. I don't know what the reason for that is.

I cannot find a partner for them. Who knows? I think it's much harder to make trades than it's ever been. Yeah, it is hard. Generally, you know, like it's much harder to make trades than it's ever been yeah it is it is hard i generally you know like it's it's it's really hard to make trades really really hard when you well god you had the carmelo trade you were making it for five months with denver nicks trade i think it was going on forever uh it took a long time they're hard to make you know they are it's it's a both teams have to agree you know and and and you got rich owners involved who never like losing anything once once it once

it uh once it line lines up you know it's it's uh then you have to go through all the the different processes of going to your ownership, going to league, going to everything, you know, like numbers have to work. And it's 2.52, what is it, 3 o'clock deadline? Yes. Yeah, it's 2.52 and you're racing and you're trying to get it and faxing stuff. Is it faxing now or you do emails? You do emails now? Emails now and calls.

Trade calls. When did you make, you made the Tucker and the Ibaka trades before? That wasn't deadline day, was it? I can't remember. Or was it like the week of? Ibaka was a week before and then Tucker was five minutes before.

Five minutes before? Yes. It's like eBay. You're refreshing the thing. Yeah. So what happens? You think there's like eBay. You're refreshing the thing. Yeah. So what happens? You think there's a chance we have the Tucker trade. You're waiting on them.

You're waiting. And then all of a sudden there's a flurry at the end. Like I've always been fascinated by that. Well, we always use one language is we have 10 deals on the board. You know, like even though you might have half a deal on the board. How many people in the room? board you know like even though you might have half a deal on the board you're using yeah so how many people in the room uh i in that room i think um trade deadline i i have a small staff so i bring in everybody for i like the small staff because i want everybody to know and everybody to

have input and that way it's not going everywhere you know so um so my all my guys were there and we keep talking about it and talking about it um till um till you decide yes you go with it and you make the calls and i had jeff weltman um at the time and jeff weltman was going back and forth with um with phoenix so you tell one person right, you call the league and you call Woj. You just two guys have a sign. Or Woj is in the room. Or Woj is on Skype. Oh, Woj is everywhere.

Woj is just listening. He's levitating above the room in a hologram, omnipotent. Do you think that the league should change anything about the trade restrictions limitations could they make it more fun for teams to improve um is there one flaw in the system that you think they could fix right now at the top of my head i'll'll say, you know, like, I think with everything new that has coming, you know, new cap, everything, you know, like the new CBA, I think it's to let it be for a couple of years and let it settle down, you know, like. Let people get used to it? Yeah, people get used to it first, you know, like, and... Let people get used to it? Yeah, people get used to it first, you know,

like, and I think it'll be fine. Then you see, you kind of see what the adjustments are, because I think it's quick now to say, you know, like, we should change this or change that. But Adam has done a great job, I think, being open-minded with with with a lot of stuff i think he's he's he's been excellent with um um with taking people's you know like opinions and suggestions and um really like looking at them but i think for now you know like it uh to let it be for now let it settle a little

bit will be i i think my suggestion what's the mindset of all right it's the trade deadline but we're in the same conference with lebron do we even do anything lebron's made seven straight finals or at the last year would have been six straight finals trying to make his seventh and you're looking at your team and you start talking yourself into it when you made those trades i talked myself into it i was like toronto's gonna hang with those guys and then it's like we just always underestimate lebron like do you look back like the summer ends like oh man what was i thinking or do you think like oh no this could happen how much soul searching goes on after that um I don't soul search. When I go into something, I've gone into it.

I don't look back at it and regret it or say, wow, man, I could have done this or done that. But when you're in sports, I don't know. You just have this attitude, honestly, Bill. You're competitive. Your players are competitive you know your your coaching staff your organization is competitive so um he's there to be beat you know like i'm not not yeah you respect the player you know like but our jobs was one of those teams if not go somewhere else go do something else you know like that's

that's how i see it our jobs is to beat them you know like our jobs is to figure out a way to beat them so uh i i look at it seven championships respect you know like i i told seven final seven finals i i respect that you know like but honestly like i don't look at it like yeah okay um you have to try and beat them you know like that's why we don't look at it like yeah okay um you have to try and beat them you know like that's why we're here if not go do somewhere else go play the piano or something you know like the Celtics were like that too because especially after they traded Rondo see my you know and they had already traded Pearson Garnett and it was like all right it's rebuilding time but they never really totally, they were like, you know,

if there's a trade that makes us better, we're still going to do it. And that leads to Isaiah Thomas, which opens the door for a whole bunch of things. Then all of a sudden they're contending. And, you know, I think they were in the position of even if we make this monster February trade deadline, it's still not enough to beat LeBron. You guys were closer. But it is the lebron shadow and then you have the warrior shadow on the other side my theory on this is people have

pretty much assumed and now it's being written as fact that the warriors threw the league into flux i've talked about this on this podcast i actually think the shorter contracts have thrown things into flux more than anything. The fact that guys are becoming available and free agents in three or four years or guys are doing these one- or two-year deals and they can keep opting out. The fact that Durant went to Golden State in 2016 and basically did a one-on-one versus signing for five years. And if he had signed for five years

they wouldn't have been able to pay curry and it seems like the contract flexibility has thrown the league into flux more than the warriors has what do you think well i think we live in a in a world of now right you know like yeah we really do and and um i i agree with you um in in a sense. But if we're doing this podcast four years ago or five years ago, we'd be saying the same thing about the Miami Heat, right? You know, like they're going to be here for the next 10 years. You know, like we just live in that moment, you know. But, you know, things do change. So you think the words are going down.

That's how i interpret that they're done i know i uh those guys are very much alive and they're very much they are very good at basketball they are very very good at basketball you know like no but um i i just don't these things don't last forever you know like that's just the nature of our league. It's going everywhere. And you never know. Sometimes you need a little bit of luck. There is a little bit of... There's some luck to it.

I would say there's a lot of luck. You can go through every season and 75% of the time, some injury probably swung what the season was. Yeah, it's amazing. Last year, maybe not as much. The Warriors were the best team and took care of business and all that. But for this Hayward injury this year,

my Celtics season in five minutes is in complete flux. Bless his heart. I don't know if they would have made the finals, but that has now opened the door for cleveland to handle the regular season totally different unless you guys make a real run on them or unless milwaukee makes a real run they might be able to say all right we'll play lebron 63 games and just kind of gear toward those last two months who knows it's it's amazing you know like and um i think the haywood i think they are still very good you know but um watching that game you know like that day

i can't imagine you know like the the i if i felt as as a as a celtic rival you know like yeah if i felt the way i felt you know like and like and screaming in my house and my wife comes down and she thought I got bad news from because she was upstairs. I got bad news from somewhere or something, you know, like and she's like, what happened? You know, like and I said, you can't even see you can't watch it, you know, and're shaking you know like honestly and it tells me a lot about the nba too you know like the nba is like i don't know what other leagues are it just doesn't seem like the nba is one great big family and we're like yeah we're rivals and we you know like we don't like each other on the court and blah blah but it all comes down to you know like players hang out they love each other you know like teams love each other everything you know like about the

league to me is um is what i want to be associated with just from my feeling that day you know like because every day i think i want to beat the hell out of the celtics you know yeah but the feeling i got that day was it was not a good feeling you know and i felt for the i felt for the kid i felt for the organization because you build so much it can happen to any of us you know like and for that kid you know like wow you know like and he'll come back stronger though yeah he'll come back i've never i've been watching basketball my whole life i've never seen somebody get injured like that on that play i'll tell you this four things had to happen for that play to happen the way it did i'll tell you there's a nigerian kid my guys were telling me about that had like the

same injury in playing aau and went on to play four years in my in university of Miami basketball. Really? Yes, and played one year of football. Wow. Yeah, and kind of did almost the same thing. So he'll be back. In this day and age, technology, everything, you just wish him the best and wish them the best. You guys had an advantage a couple times with being ahead of the game with technology and advanced metrics.

Like Zach, when we were at Grantland, wrote that piece about how you're using the dots. That whole, oh, that was before you got to Toronto. No, no. Were you at Toronto at that point? Yeah, I think the dots was when I was there. The first piece he did on analytics in the dots was when I was there. The first piece was, the first piece he did on analytics in Toronto was right before I got there.

No, what was, the dots was with you though. Yes, the dots was with me. What's left? Are there new frontier? I mean, you're not going to tell me, but are there frontiers that we haven't tapped into? It seems like psychology and health

are the two places that these teams are now spending a lot of resources on. Once we pass through that, we've figured out spacing on offense. We've figured out exactly how to play defense. We've figured out where the dots should move with these crazy computer programs. Now we're figuring out health and psychology. Is there anything left?

Now I guess it's like evaluating young prospects would be the great frontier. Well, you've tried small ball. What if we try playing like five, seven, seven guys like Yao Ming, you know, and they just throw it to each other. I guess that, yeah, that would work. Do we have five five seven foot four guys

yeah i don't know find them from somewhere they can just inbound and just throw it to each other until the other the last one just dunks it in i don't know like what the next first of all um if i thought i had like an idea i wouldn't say say it. Yeah, I know you wouldn't. But I do. The people I've asked seem to feel like we're getting close to kind of exploring all the basic things. So now whatever's next is something that. I love that my guys are always exploring. You know, like I love that I have a team of front office guys, that there's always something new. There's always the dots or whatever it is.

We have to think that way and we have to try it, in my opinion, in this league. Would you get rid of corner threes? Would you make the three-point line end three feet before the end of the court on each side so nobody could just stand in the corner to spread the floor? It would be interesting to have a four-point shot. It's funny. I'm with you on the four-point shot. Some people hate it.

I remember when I did the Durant podcast, he was so upset that it was even an idea. I was like, that's stupid. We might as well be like rock and jock at this point. But I think we're going to hit a point where we have to think about the court size and whether the court size needs to be maybe a foot wider on each side or something. I don't know. We're not here yet, but maybe 10 years from now. If this Giannis type of athlete is going to keep these guys

from like 6'8 to 7 feet that are able to do all this stuff, the court might eventually become too small for them. That's the only thing I can think happening. I don't think they'll ever raise the rim. That'll be stupid. I don't think they'll ever shorten the game. I think they might shorten the regular season at some point because it's the smart thing to do

and they should have done it already, but it really should be like a 70-game regular season. I think they'll add the play-in tournament with 14 guaranteed playoff spots and then the other two up for grabs. I think all that stuff will happen, but I can't imagine them... What do you think that

would do? The play- playing tournament? So this is now the 10-year anniversary of when I first wrote the column about it. I think it does two things. It makes that April a little more interesting just in general for basketball fans because the reality is the playoffs, the top four seeds in each conference usually win. And if you look at the final four year after year after year,

it's always a one seed, a two seed, a three seed. It's never like a seven or eight seed. I think it would add a little unpredictability in April, but I also think it would make it a lot harder to tank. Because if you're just shutting guys down for the reason, for dubious reasons like, oh, yeah, he's got some plantar fasciitis. But you actually had a chance to make the playoffs. It becomes less defensible.

And I also think of rewards teams that kind of come on late like Denver and Portland did or Denver did last year. There's always that one team that kind of that makes one trade to do something but it's kind of too late to save the season i think that team should have a chance to at least try to get in there do you like it or you don't like it uh i've toyed with it in my in every all of us you know like play with all these um all these different ideas you know and um some days i like it some days i just like the traditional you know like what the league is and what it has been you know and uh but i understand you know like we we have to advance in some kind of way you know um but listen single elimination

games are just fun you know and even if it's you're talking a 29-win team versus a 40-win team trying to get the eight seed, I'm still watching it. So if you go from that prism, it probably makes more sense. What about if you're the one seed in each conference? Best of seven, round one, you get five of the seven games at home. Five of the seven? Yeah. You get something for being the one seed.

Wow. You're probably winning the series anyway because it's an eight seed. Then the eight seed has no chance at all. Eight seed has no chance. No chance. What if it was best of five first round? Four games at home. But the 1 seed gets four of the five at home.

The 8th seed only gets game three. Then there's no even, those chances are even like, there's no chance that the 8th seed. I miss the best of five, though. I wish there was some way we could bring that back. I actually think best of five one seed eight seed where the eight seed

gets two games at home is too much of an advantage for the eight seed because you've narrowed the probability you know it's like anything when all of a sudden

you're up 2-1 you have game four at home I don't know the playoffs have become too predictable you think? yeah I do I do

I think the first two rounds are way less fun than they used to be. And especially now that we've seen teams stacked at the top, I do think we need something. You know? Like the Celtics-Wizards round two was really good. Yeah. That was... I don't really remember another round two series that stuck out.

Your series against the Bucs was entertaining. Yeah. But that was round one. That was round one. But, I don't know know it just feels like we could do a little more you seem like you're on the fence i i i get what you're saying you know i i think the more competitive we see the league the better you know, and we operate with our mindset of now, now, now, you know, and it'll even out a little bit, you know. You're a patient man. I try to be.

That's why the Mellow trade took five months. How many months did the Mellow trade take? About five months. Owners were involved? That was your first big deal, right? Yes. So in eight years, you go from you're an unpaid scout to you get a job. Orlando, Orlando.

When did you go to Denver? What year? So I was only in Orlando one year. So I went in 2003. Oh, 2003 to Denver. That's right. So in that area, you kind of rise up the ladder. Yes I was there four years um got promoted a couple times by Kiki and and Jeff and then Kiki um left um and and so I worked on the Mark Worker team uh for for a couple years um and then uh went to work for Brian Colangelo as assistant GM in in Toronto

yeah and then I was fortunate crazy crazy you get brought back I got brought back to Denver and at what point what at what point of that eight-year journey do you think you actually have a chance to be a gm you know i i was brian colangelo's assistant gm and in the last year this is this is unbelievable in the last year i was really i really wanted to go to africa to to to work in that at the nba office you know like i really yeah you're ready to leave i was i'd spoken to adam spoken to it was it was one of those where i was i really really wanted to go and adam called me in and said you know, you'll be able to do that, you know, like at, you know, like a later time in your life, you know, like. And then, I mean, like he was the deputy commissioner. We have been friends for a long time, you know,

and he's been a great friend. And he said, just wait, you know, like you have a chance in this league, you know, and I have you you you have a chance in in this league you know and and uh i talked to a couple people and i i decided to stay and um a month later a month later um i i get i get the call to come and interview um for for the job in denver we we i taped a pod with daryl this summer that we haven't even run yet that's about basically like the history of daryl's life and how he got to where he goes because there's so many people who've gotten a gm job or high ranking mba job that just kind of never imagined

that's where their life was going to go yeah and we were talking about in 2006 the all-star game was in houston and he was you know he was working for danny age and i was like you're gonna get a gm job and he's like are you crazy there's no way and i'm like it's gonna happen though all that all the money ball analytics stuff is starting to come into the nba and one of these guys is gonna look at you and say i'm hiring an analytics guy he's my gm and he's like no way and like two months later the houston thing happened and then all of a sudden it was like analytics but he was always like you're the only one who thought and i was like it was gonna happen it was analytics like you knew especially with the owners that drifted now the nba has like so many smart you know forward

thinking a lot of guys made money in tech or new media or all these different weird new whereas the NFL has like the old money you know family money oil money and they just have it that way the NBA is always kind of thinking moving ahead and the league's more competitive than it's ever been even the bad teams now are kind of doing the right things for the most part. Well, yeah, you're right. I'm an alternate governor, so I go to those board of governors meetings. And, man, those guys are forward thinkers. There's a lot of egos in those rooms, too. I just know that, you know, like they're competitive, you know, and they're forward thinkers, you know, like and it's unique to see like the group because they think, you know, like they think for the too, you know, like where the league has come. Obviously, David brought this up, but man, you know, like it's real like forward thinkers

and you hear all the ideas and what people are saying, you know, like and it's amazing to see, you know, like where they see the league and where the league, you know, like can be, you know, five years from now or 10 years from now. It's a good combination of security because they made – anybody who's invested in an NBA team at this point either knows that they've made a ton of money on the investment already

or they're going to or they're at least a little above even. So that's good. So you don't have to totally make decisions just for, oh, let's grab some money. I don't feel like the NBA does that. I actually think they put thoughts into a big picture, a little more of a strategy. But then you think about how marketable all the players are, which is just the biggest advantage they have. And then you think about the streaming and the fact that all these different countries now are starting to watch NBA games, which 10 years ago was inconceivable.

Well, we can watch the NBA players. A lot of the people don't think we can watch the NBA players on a screen and they can be this close and we can see your face. Nice HDTV. Yes, you can see your face, you know, like even on your phone, you know, like you can see all these stars and all these players and all these teams, you know, like and with other sports, it's, you know, like you can see all these stars and all these players and all these teams, you know, like and with other sports, it's, you know, like face masks or, you know, like. So it's to me identifying with the NBA, just traveling around the world, man.

The NBA is like this. It's yeah, it's it's it's going somewhere, you know, like unbelievable, in my opinion. And I'm biased because I'm in it. I'm biased too. But it's also true. I mean, you can see it happening. You can see it. You can look at whatever factor you want to look at.

The ratings. You can look at the player's social media accounts. Yes. Or the fact that it's a 12-month-a-year sport. I mean, you don't probably have a week off now in the NBA. Every week something's happening. No, it's every day. You're afraid to go away on vacation for 10 days?

Every day something is happening, you know. And I spend the whole month of August, you know, in Africa doing my camps with Giants of Africa. And I really, you are totally engaged all the time, you know, like whether it's your team, you know, like whether it's your players, whether it's your organization in many ways, you know, like you are completely engaged and it's. So naturally the move is to stretch the schedule out and make it longer. Let's just get rid of the off season altogether although i will say i loved having the nba start earlier i liked it was always weird when it was like right around halloween and the world series is going on and football and then like basketball's thrown in it felt like much more organic this time i think i i liked it i thought

so too i really i really liked it because but um shortening the pre-season too i think i i liked it i thought so too i really i really liked it because but um shortening the pre-season too i think was yeah it was was very good although we did see some teams that maybe weren't in the greatest shape yet which is the one the one thing i've noticed there's definitely some players who are playing themselves into it quick break to talk about my bookie from a gambling standpoint we're going to remember the 2010s is the decade when live betting took off. Where you're betting is just as important as who you're betting on. Here's an idea. Go to MyBookie.ag.

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Once again, mybookie.ag. Use promo code Bill Simmons. My name. Not a hard one to forget. To activate the offer, you play, you win, you get paid. Back to Masai Ujiri. Toronto fans. Pretty tortured fan base. Maple Leafs. The Raps. Blue Jays, they won in 93.

They have adopted the Raptors in ways that I never imagined. I always felt like it's a hockey town. But it really seems like it's a genuine basketball town. What kind of pressure do you feel? Because you guys have come close. You've had some cup of coffees. You made the Eastern Conference finals. You weren't able to get over the hump.

Are you feeling the fans? Are they starting to get a little restless? What's their attitude? No, you know, it's one of the things we wanted to do. You want to build, I think, your fans not just for now, but for the future, for the program. I think that's what you want to do. And I think we, the just for now but for the future for the program you know like I think that's what you want to do and I think we the north did that you know like it's built it's built something that stays you know like and whatever stage we're in as long as you're kind of

I don't know if transparent is the word but they know you know like what the what the plan is fans are fantastic yeah you've got fans yeah they're great and um but it it it happens for all the teams and i think it's coming around with that city i think the soccer team had the best record they're almost the golden state you know like of of of of the um mls of the mls you know know, like it's incredible. And now the hockey team has a couple of star players, you know, star young players. The lottery finally worked out for them. Yeah, it's coming up.

But the fans, it's crazy in that city. There's enough for all the teams, you know, and packed packed you know like went to a soccer game the other day and it's like jam-packed the atmosphere is crazy our games are the same way the hockey games you know so um but it's it's it's gaining their trust you know like a little bit in in in in toronto and canada as a whole, we have a unique opportunity, you know, like in that country to be. You really are.

Yeah, it's one team, one country. Vancouver should have a team though. They really messed that up. Stern admits it. I mean, I think that's like probably his biggest regret is not. I think he said that on my podcast once. Yeah, he did. It's a great city.

It's a great city that should have had a team. I know for people who work in the league and the announcers and even the players, that Seattle-Vancouver part of the Pacific Northwest trip was one of their favorite trips, which makes me think if they ever went to 32 teams, which I feel like we have enough talent now that they could pull it off. I never felt that way until the last couple of years. But if they added two more teams, those would be, I would vote for the Pacific Northwest.

Do you think they could carry a 32-team league at this point? Is there enough players? It's close. Definitely almost enough superstars. Yeah, my humble opinion is it's close. But when you look at, we go to that area, you know, like almost every year in Vancouver. And we try to play around Canada.

And it's unbelievable, you know, like the basketball fever, you know, like around the country. But especially in that area, we feel in a preseason game, you know, like we almost, we have fans outside, you know, like doing what we do in Toronto, almost in Vancouver, you know.

So you have a Canadian monopoly, basically. You don't want any more Canadian teams. You want to off Canada. Yeah, for now, for now, we like being Canada's team

and being a global team, you know, I think. Does off Canada hate LeBron James because of what he's done to Toronto? Is he the least favorite basketball player in canada uh i don't care canadians are too nice yeah well i i don't know you know like they just want to win you know like i i don't know that they they care about it that way you know like but it but it's, they're great fans, you know, like, and they want to win, you know, like, which is understandable.

True or false, NBA players are afraid to actually play in Canada because they don't understand the money system and different culture, all that stuff, or do you think that's flipped a little? Here's what I would say. One day, somebody is going to figure it out. Somebody is going to figure that place out because I think in Toronto, you have a platform to face the world. You can face Canada. You can face the U.S. and the 29 teams, and you have an unbelievable global platform you know like that nobody else will have there's something unique about that place look at Vince Carter you know like it's and yeah I think it's an example of you know like explosion of an athlete you know like

that really like captivated basically the whole world from that from that place you know like you go all over the world a player like that yeah um is known but this is a good infomercial to sign with the rappers down the road i think you're doing a good job here i'm trying no but i think there's something that there's something that hasn't been i i don't know if i'll be the one to figure, you know, like, but I'm saying there's something there, you know, like that's completely, like, unique, you know, like, Damar and Kyle have figured it out a little bit, you know, like. You never loved it there. My buddy Jalen. He did. He loved it. there my buddy jalen he did he's like i don't understand why anybody doesn't think that's one

of the best places for an nba player to play he had like the best time there yeah i think i might have too good of a time yeah it's a good great city unbelievable city yeah i don't know if you're aware but there's a lot of attractive women in toronto all different types of cultures and there's a lot of bars and restaurants and things that stay open late it's a very fun place to play and as jalen said when you're using canadian money you don't know how much money it is so you think you feel like you have more money than you actually have or it's different and you i don't know he is this whole canadian have you been to toronto i've never been to toronto somehow no, you have never been. I love Montreal.

I don't know if that's sacrilegious to say that. You've never been to Toronto. I'm due. I'm due. You've never really been to Toronto. I kept waiting for you guys to make the finals. When you made the finals, I was going to go. Man, you have no rights to comment about Toronto.

Until you come to Toronto and you feel it and you see it. You've got to come. Maybe I'll and you see it. You got to come. Maybe I'll do it this season. You have to. You have to. That's one of the best cities in the world. Did you know that? No, I'm fully aware.

It is. I'm not trying to sell it. I'm just telling you it's one of the, regardless of sports even, that's one of the best cities in the world. So that's why you've had overtures you never wanted to leave. You love Toronto.onto is phenomenal i have i i'm blessed yeah i have unbelievable ownership i have unbelievable job i'm blessed to look at the journey the story you know like um for me uh there's it's giving me a unique opportunity you know um and i i can't i can't complain at all you know like who am i you know like i i have to pass it on somewhere somehow we have to pass it on and we have to win like there's nothing in sports bill you have to win in sports there's no no other way there's no other way you must win how many people

report to you now uh i don't know i don't i don't know how many people work for you 20 30 uh now maybe close to 50 50 yeah what's your best management advice best management this is a good question. You never got this question before. I know. I never got this one before. I had to put you on the spot or something. You just put me on the spot.

I have a lot of people that work for me. I'm always interested to see what other people. Best management advice. Okay, I got it. I knew you'd get it. Yeah. Be more passionate than ambitious. Wow.

See that? Tommy's excited. Tommy was worried for a second. Be more passionate than ambitious is great. I like that. I would say also trust the people in your inner circle. Yes. It's a big one. You cannot win in your inner circle. Yes. It's a big one.

You cannot win if your inner circle isn't empowered and good at what they do. And you hire them and it's your job to stick up for them and make sure they do well. Can I say another one, Bill, which I think is very underrated? And I don't know. Hire women. And I'm not just saying it you know like i have i'm not really like they there's something about them that brings us uh to a level that um where we think better you know like i i really do where our egos start to get you know like in crazy places if you hire the right i have a couple that work for me and they are really

really good brutally honest very good very level-headed you know like yeah and they they just have a good way you know like of of putting things in in in perspective so i would say like even the one thing i've learned from grant line of hair is like uh diversity of who's around diversity is big and not just like what people look like yes male or female stuff like that but like backgrounds backgrounds unique backgrounds you know like where did you come from and what did you learn? Exactly. What are you bringing to the table that I'm not getting from this person, this person, this person?

No, it's so important. But the one you said, like entrusting the people that you work with. One way I know that you have a good team is your shit doesn't leak. Your stuff doesn't get out when the raptors are like sniffing around on somebody i'm not i'm not reading about it immediately on three places

you know you have a very we try like these days you're probably terrified all the time that anything you're talking about is going to get out at all times because the way twitter and hearing this and hearing that blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah. And you're just like, where'd that come from? Wait a second. Can I tell you this story? We went to scout Warren, Madrid or somewhere. And I remember it's myself, Weltman and Bobby Webster. And I think trade deadline might be coming close or something.

And I like to take the staff, you know, like on those kind of trips because you are just together and you just keep talking and talking. So I will go with like three guys, four guys. And at this dinner table, we're talking and talking. And this guy is sitting down next to us. And it looks like he's waiting for somebody you know like by the time we finish you know like nobody comes you know like and he eats his food we get up to go you know like and and i put my jacket on and he goes uh um hi mr you're doing a great job in toronto and i i swear i don't know what we could have

been talking about there you know like yeah with your inner circle you're talking and you're discussing and all of that you know like and then somebody just right next to you you know like comes and says hey you know like um you're doing a great job. And I'm like, I looked at Jeff and Bobby and then I'm like, what the hell did I say? And I'm trying to like rewind, you know, like all the things that we talked about, you know, like, but yeah, it's a different world, you know, like, but as long as... By the way, that's happened to me a few times. You can kind of tell, though. You probably weren't looking for it, but you can kind of tell when somebody's listening. I've had dinners in close quarters where I talk about ESPN stuff or whatever,

and I could see somebody kind of eating, you know, like leaning toward you. They're like, all right, okay, hold on. We have a spy. I had dinner once when I was with two two of my good friends and i was joking about it was right when i didn't know whether i was going to come back to espn or not and i was joking about i should just go back to boston and do local radio and i'd be and somehow somebody overheard it at another table and then it became a blog post story the next day wow simmons talking about going back to boston like i was the next day wow simmons talking about going back

to boston like i was drunk with my friends having dinner talking about like going back and being on the freaking drive time show uh but that you never know you never know who's listening you know you never know never know i i listened to your podcast with uh with bob costas by the way yeah he was great that's he's yeah he's great i got. I had breakfast with him and Jeff Weltman, and you guys were talking about Jeff Weltman's mom, actually. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. I was trying to count how many people, when I was listening to it, that I actually know,

the ones that I don't know. But it was really interesting. And then there was Jeff's mom and Bob Costas and Ahmad Rashad and, um, and all these guys. And it tells you about the basketball dog, you know, like it just tells you about the, the basketball family. It's crazy how it all comes around. You know, you gotta be good to people, Bill. I think it's important in our, in life generally, you know, like, because it, it, it seems like in our league, i think it's important in our in life generally you know like because it it seems like in our league i think it comes it comes around you know like it's it's pretty cool pretty

cool league messiah i wish you the best of luck on the raptors except when you play the celtics and uh tell yonas to calm down against us he can still have a good he doesn't have to destroy us he can have like a half decent game. He doesn't. Although we have new guys to throw at him this year. With Aaron Baines. I'll pass on the message

to Jonas. Text him. Tell Jonas Aaron Baines isn't going to let him shove the Celtics around like he usually does. And we can't

we've never been able to guard DeRozan. I don't know. We have I mean we have basically only have four guys from last year but DeRozan. I don't know. I mean, we basically only have four guys from last year, but DeRozan's always done whatever he wanted.

I'm not going to sympathize with you in any way. DeRozan's good at basketball. What do you want from me? Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. This was awesome. That's it.

Thanks so much to Masai. Thanks to Chris Ryan. Thanks to SeatGeek. Don't forget, go to SeatGeek.com or the SeatGeek app. NBA Palooza is the code. $30 off NBA tickets. First time you use SeatGeek to buy NBA tickets. Thanks to Sonos.

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10%. You can get 10% off one order of $2,500 or less for any product on Sonos.com. All you have to do is use promo code SIMMONS10. That's it. We have one more BS podcast coming up on Friday. Don't forget about Cousin Sal, the one we did on Monday. Don't forget about Jack Owl on Tuesday if you missed those.

That's it for the BS podcast. Don't forget about my columnl on Tuesday if you missed those. That's it for the BS Podcast. Don't forget about my column on Friday. That's coming too. Enjoy the rest of the week. I don't have I feel it's within. On the wayside. I'm a fruit so I never are. I don't have to ever.