The Bill Simmons Podcast - Rick Pitino's Comeback, the Kardashians and Hip-Hop Culture's Takeover With Charlamagne tha God, Mark Titus, and Tate Frazier | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 436)

Episode Date: October 31, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by 'One Shining Podcast''s Mark Titus and Tate Frazier to discuss Rick Pitino and his quest for an NBA coaching job (2:23) before Bill sits down with Charlamagne tha God to discuss his new book, 'Shook One: Anxiety Playing Tricks on Me,' classic movies, NBA all-time greats, Kardashian influence, hip-hop culture takeover, and more (30:25) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, brought to you as always by ZipRecruiter. You know what's not smart? Hiring Rick Pitino as your head NBA coach. We're going to talk about that in a little bit with Titus and Tate. You know what else is smart? Job sites that overwhelm you with the tons of the wrong resumes. Luckily, there's a right way and a smart way at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS.

They find people with the right skills for your job, actively invite them to apply, get qualified candidates fast. Right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, SeatGeek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. I use them for game two and game four of the World Series.

I got parking passes on there too, actually. Gotta have the parking passes at Dodger Stadium. You gotta. You just have to. $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase on any gamer sporting event. Use promo code BS. Download the SeatGeek app

or go right to SeatGeek.com. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com and The Ringer Podcast Network where you can find a ton of good pop culture content and podcasts. Now we just launched a big picture feed. Sean fantasy has his own feed. I was on there last week,

talked about horror movies. He's talking about the Oscars with Amanda Dobbins on there right now. And we are going to be filling that feed out three times a week. Don't forget about channel 33 with the press box and with damage control. Sean's off that feed. um we have that one we have the rewatchables which is coming back soon we have jam session which is on channel 33 we have god what else do we have kyle channel 33 then we need we have the recapables is coming back soon yeah oh the watch hanging around right yeah on shuffle doing music we have the Recapables is coming back soon. Yeah. Oh, The Watch. The Watch is hanging around, right? Yeah, On Shuffle.

Doing music. We have Binge Mode. So yeah, check out all of our pop culture stuff on the Ringer Podcast Network. Coming up, we're going to talk to Mark Titus and Tate Frazier about Rick Pitino's possible NBA comeback, a story I'm just fascinated by. And then our old friend Charlemagne the God, who has a new book coming out.

That's all coming up first. Pro tip. All right. Charlemagne's coming up in a little bit. What an honor to have these guys right before their world tour. They're about to America and the world. You're going to Australia, New Zealand, London. Sold out.

Sold out all over the place. Don't bother looking up tickets if you live in Australia. Thank you so much, Budapest. Germany with Berlin. Berlin. That was the one. That would be great. I'm excited to hear about all that,

but it's starting out in middle America. Yeah. The most important part. Really, that's the only world that matters to me is middle America. Chicago sold out, but this weekend we have Louisville. We have Indiana. We're in Indiana.

Bloomington. Bloomington. I'm excited about that one. What's the third one? Columbus. Columbus. We started in Columbus. Columbus, Ohio yeah

any special guests for any of these yeah yeah we have an Odin's coming on Chris Holtman will be there in Columbus Ohio State head coach

great so it'll be great yeah we'll be good Tate's gonna be there nephew Kyle nephew Kyle's really the big one I'll be there

producer Kyle on our show come see the tattoo producer Kyle yeah he's two different people it's like when P. Diddy

was also Diddy and then like he just didn't know what it was. I think one of the videos where we're selling VIP tickets and everyone's asking me what is the VIP experience and I'm pretty sure

you just get to touch Kyle's tattoo and just like pet it. Touch Kyle. You get to pet Kyle. Smoke a cigarette with Kyle. Can that be a VIP thing, Kyle? Yeah. It's really not up to me.

I think we all know it's not up to me. You just go sign repeaters with Kyle. The thing is you don't have to be a VIP to smoke a cigarette with Kyle. You can really be anybody with two arms, two legs, and a mouth. Yeah, as long as you're nice.

Just be a nice guy. Just say hey to Kyle. All right, so One Shining Podcast is about to ramp up. I want to talk about Zion in a second, but the reason I had you guys on other than to say hello, and you haven't been on in a while, Coach P is coming back. It's happening.

He is sniffing around the NBA again. I was there. I was living in Boston, using my dad's tickets for three years as he ran the Celtics into the ground. And they quit on him nine different ways. When you see a team quit, and then they're like, have we quit on this guy enough? What else can we do?

Should we stare at him in contempt? What else can happen? Now he's coming back. Not only is he coming back, he's coming back a month after announcing that he was done coaching forever. After he wrote a tell-all book in which he told us nothing. And then went on a press tour and said, I wrote this book for closure because I'm done coaching. It's done. And then a month later, he's like, I don't think I'm done coaching.

I'm trying to get back into it. My question to you is like because i don't remember the his tenure at the celtics i didn't i don't know if i was too young or if i just wasn't paying enough attention to the nba like what exactly i'll admit that i'm slightly surprised that he was such a train wreck in the nba because so bad for all of the tate and i there's no one on earth we love making jokes about more than rick patino but at the same time he's unquestionably one of the best college coaches who's ever lived like he's he's a genius at coaching college basketball so it is a little surprising isn't it tate that he's like he's a basketball genius and the the thing now i think everyone talks about the celtics and i had no idea that he got a gruden contract did you know this he got like a what was it 10 years 70

million dollars it was worse than that he got red he got red a what was it 10 years 70 million dollar contract it was worse than that he got no it was 10 years 50 million or 8 years 50 million and he also got Red Auerbach's president title oh no

so he was doing that's the problem and then the other thing he took the job after we had lost the Tim Duncan lottery and we had the third and sixth picks

took the job and then started complaining about well we don't have an anchor like Tim Duncan. It's like, you knew this. You haven't taken the job yet. And took in and just immediately tried to make them good. The real problem, though, he comes in the late 90s,

which was a really controversial NBA era, like Latrell Sprewell and just Iverson and just like the players were starting to take over the league. And we lost Jordan. So we lost Jordan and the players are kind of swinging their, swinging their arms a little bit. And he comes in, he's making more money than anyone who's coaching and he's ordering them around like they're 19 year olds. And it worked for about 60 games.

And then everybody starts going, ah, fuck this guy. He's getting, he's getting all the credit if they win. And if they lose, it's their fault. Yep. And it's just like what in college it can happen because the guy's graduating a year.

Right. But in the NBA, you have the guy after that. He's still there. He also has a history of, he's not the best recruiter, which is hilarious that he got caught up in basically the FBI scandal recruiting a five-star guy. Because if you look at his recruiting history, he doesn't always get the best guys. And there's probably a reason for that. So he can keep guys under his thumb a little bit and

he doesn't want to deal with the, I don't know. But that is the funniest part is that he was brought down by a five-star recruit and he historically just doesn't That's not his game at all. That's not his game as recruited. The interesting thing to me about him is that he was with the Knicks, right? He was great with the Knicks, or I wouldn't say great, but the Knicks, right? Like, he was great with the Knicks.

Or I wouldn't say great, but he was good enough. No, he was really good with the Knicks. Didn't he take them to, like, the conference finals a couple times? Yeah, that team was good. And they were pressing. And they played with real energy. But that was, like, a different time in the NBA where he goes and takes that Kentucky job. And at the time, the Kentucky job is actually a better job than the Knicks job.

And now we live in a world where, like, everyone's like, what? Rick Pitino wants to go to the NBA? That's crazy. This is a whole other level ofher level of basketball yeah it used to be looked at a totally different way because 30 years ago you nba head coaches didn't really do a lot yeah yeah like play harder and shoot threes people like whoa this guy well also i would i would say that the the disparity between what college basketball and n NBA was 30 years ago was probably not as big as it is now. Yeah. Well, and also in college basketball, you had guys for two, three, four years.

Right, yeah. You know, even Jamal, his first Kentucky team that was really good had Mashburn on it. I think Mashburn was three years, right? He was a junior, yeah. And he was like the perfect. I got to say, he had a good NBA career, but I actually thought he was going to be better. He's like everything I want from a six foot eight

swing guy with three point range. But anyway. I thought you were talking about Rick Pitino. So he comes to the Celtics and I actually had my own website at that time. And I think it was the first year I had it. 50 games in, he trades Chauncey Boebs for Kenny Anderson. Yeah, the number three pick.

So he has this show. He has a Sunday night show with Bob Lobel called The Rick Pitino Show, which I watched every week. I was just making fun of it. And that was like the newspaper era. Nobody made fun of anything back then. I was like, this is the best. This guy's such a jackass.

So he lays out all the reasons for the trade. He has this whole whiteboard, and he has all the figures. And at some point, Lobel says, well, but you know, you gave up on Chauncey Billups. That was tough.

And he's like, we didn't give up on Chauncey. We thought he was fantastic. It was like, you traded him after 50 games. You did give up on him, but he was just a snake oil salesman liar. It's just like what he was like in college.

He lied. He would tell guys who love them. He would trade them. He would throw guys under the bus. It's just like what he was like in college. He lied. He would tell guys he loved them. He would trade them. He would throw guys under the bus. It's fantastic. And he traded away at the strike season, which we weren't that good. What is that, 99?

Yeah, 99. It was a 50 game season. And in March, I remember where I was. I was in San Francisco visiting my friends. We were about to go to Vegas. And my dad calls me. He's like, we traded away our pick. I was like,

for who? He's like, Vitaly Potapenko. And I was like, really? They just get the pick no matter what? He's like, yeah. You think your dad threw up when he said that name? He traded away an unprotected pick for Vitaly Potapenko. It's amazing to me that you can say his name perfectly.

It's Ali Potato. We missed the playoffs. It ended up being the eighth pick. The eighth pick was Andre Miller. That's who we lost. The next pick was Sean Marion. So all of us were like, fuck this guy. We got to get him out.

Antoine hated him. And the players quit on him. He left. The players immediately played better, Pierce and Antoine. He was just awful. He was the worst. So the main thing that I have the question. So him. He left. The players immediately played better, Pierce and Antoine. He was just awful. He was the worst. So the main thing that I have the question, so he drew Rosenhaus,

he signs Rosenhaus, which is like the reason all this stuff's getting out there because he's like a big leak central. He's leaking everything and he's like, but Tina wants to go back and he says that he's willing

to sit on the bench. Like basically he could be like what Larry Drew was for Ty Lue, like be a number two guy and sit there and buy into the system. The problems was when he was like a president, he had to make all the decisions,

which he obviously should not have been making these decisions. He's a great basketball mind. So I do in my head, I'm like, it does make sense that Rick Pitino could go and sit next to Eric Spolstra in Miami and take Bam out of bio and make him into a superstar. You know what I mean? Like in my head,

it makes sense that Rick Pitino could be good. So he wants to be like a like the lead assistant he says he will do anything like he will he learned you to coach like i whatever it takes but imagine if you were a head coach and it's like hey we've brought in rick patino to be here i'm not sure i'm not just that dude i'm not sure who's signing i mean billy donovan is that the move? That's what I mean. He coached him. That's what I mean. There's guys out there that I could see an owner saying, what do you think about Patino? And a guy saying, well, I really like Rick,

and I would like to have him in my practices. But I can't see someone trusting him to be on staff because he is going to undermine them and try to become that coach. I mean, Billy D would take him probably. They're tight. He went on his podcast, Dave. Oh, you're right. I forgot. First guest on the Patino Press. I'm really worried. What does this mean for the Patino Press

podcast? He's back into the NBA. I forgot he did two other things in Boston that were amazing. The first summer he took over, he spent six years, $20 million on Travis Knight. Remember Travis Knight? Yes yes my goodness he then paid like 30 million to this guy chris mills who was like this above average small forward not great

in training camp traded chris mills so he signed this guy who's their big phrase signing he never played a game he traded him for like walter mccarty and john wallace and all these guys he's like yeah you know this press style we're playing is a little too much for Chris. He was like, why didn't you think of that when you signed him? You should have asked him. So that was the problem then is that he was just giving control of the... I mean, I don't know.

I think his coaching is good. I think him as a president doing it like that. He's not in the NBA because he was trying to press. You know what those guys don't want to do is press. They're making real money. They don't want to run around. 82 games of pressing. No one wants to do that. I will say, though,

it did work a couple times. Yeah. Because he had all these young guys. Like, we came back against the Bulls on opening night and we beat MJ and Pippen and Pippen didn't play. But it was like,

oh, the press. This will work. And then by like game 28, these guys are like, fuck this. Yeah. Why can't he coach like the Phoenix Suns

and just have, you know, being assistant coach on the Phoenix Suns and just have, you know, being assistant coach on the Phoenix Suns, have a young team that actually might press. You know what I mean? You go to Isaiah Cannon, you go to Devin Booker. I mean, Devin Booker's probably not going to press, but you go try to sell young guys on playing a different way,

especially because everyone's scoring now. It's like, this is the only way we can play defense. We have to guard Steph Curry as soon as he touches the ball. We have to press Steph Curry. Well, here's my question for you guys, since you follow college basketball way more intently

than I do. A, is he a good game coach? Is he good in the last five minutes of a game? Because I always feel like he kind of was in college. He was, definitely.

Compared to like Calipari who is, as you know, Forrest Gump in the last four minutes. Cal had his number. Kentucky fans are going to lose their minds that you said it,

but I would actually agree with that. Cal used to always beat Patino, but it wasn't because Cal, anyway. Cal's two problems be Patino, but it wasn't because Cal, anyway. Yeah. Cal's two problems were he can't coach the last four minutes and his head

turns like purple and he's so intense and crazy. And I think he stresses out his players. I won't say what sport, but my daughter had a coach like this once and he stressed out everyone on the team, but he was very Calipari-ish. It's like, at some point you just got to be,

that's why Brad Stevens is the best. The president. Just kind of calm. Oh, Marcus Smart just took a 28 footer. It was awful. I'm just going to smile and clap. Yeah, no one has said Coach Cal has even killed on the sidelines. He's the type of guy that would grab DeMarcus Cousins at Vanderbilt and throw him on the bench.

You know, like literally physically throw him on the bench. So when Patino coached the Celtics and I had great seats for that because we had awesome seats and nobody was there and they weren't playing the music yet so you could actually hear the conversations you know he's he's tense makes the players tense and antoine shoots a three and he goes antoine why and antoine's now looking over like what the fuck dude and i don't know how that works in the NBA in 2018. If he embarrasses a player once, they're going to be out. Yeah, yeah.

And yeah, that's going to be tough. I don't think he's going to be an assistant coach. I'm trying to think of a way. Well, maybe we can talk to him. Because the guy, I don't know. I miss Rick Pitino. I miss him so much. That's really what it is.

I'm glad you brought this up. That's a very important point. I want somebody to hire him. It's more fun for all of us if he's coaching the Sacramento Kings. Yes. That's what I'm hoping for. In my head, I thought he would never go back

anywhere else to be an assistant, but I thought he would go back to his roots. I thought he would go back to Hawaii where he first cheated the first time. Go back to your first major. thought he would go back to Hawaii where he first cheated the first time. Like go back to your first, you know, your first, your major. And he said like,

it didn't matter. None of it, you know, don't talk about it. But he could go all the way back to Hawaii, recruit kids at Hawaii. He would kind of be

off to the side. No one would really care. And he could just be Rick, you know, just be yourself, Rick. But now that he wants to get back in the NBA,

I think he's putting a target on his back, which is not what he wants to do. I mean, he could have just rode off in the sunset, maybe let this FBI stuff pass and get another college job. But now think he's putting a target on his back, which is not what he wants to do. I mean, he could have just rode off in the sunset, maybe let this FBI stuff pass and get another

college job. But now that he's in it, now that he's talking about being the front page guy. Just think about what you said, though. Imagine if we were like, wow, Titus, once the FBI stuff passes, we could rehire him. I mean, look, Dwayne Casey is one of the best coaches in the NBA right now.

He got killed at Kentucky for having the recruiting violations. He got banned from college basketball. People forget this. And now everyone's like, Dwayne Casey's the man. We love him to death. People forget. Wait, Dwayne Casey, Toronto Raptors Dwayne Casey? Yes. At Kentucky. He had recruiting violations?

Do you care as an NBA fan? I didn't even know that. He wasn't allowed to coach. But my question is, as an NBA fan, do you even care upon learning this about Dwayne Casey? No. I don't care at all. Do you care as an NBA fan? I didn't even know that. He wasn't allowed to coach. But my question is, as an NBA fan, do you even care? Upon learning this about Dwayne Casey? No. No. I don't care at all. Do you care if this FBI investigation comes out that Cal has been literally handing duffel bags full of cash to every single Kentucky player that's been?

No, because you told me that's how it works. Yeah. And then Cal's like, I want to coach in the NBA. Is there a single NBA fan base that's like, I don't want him. He was paying recruit. Like, no. Right? No one in the NBA cares if they're breaking NBA fan base that's like, I don't want him. He was paying recruit. Like, no, right? No one in the NBA cares

if they're breaking NCAA rules. That's why it's genius. College basketball was ruined for me five years ago when I was doing TV with Jalen. And at like hour six, when we were just all hanging out together, watching eight games at once,

I would just start asking him questions. And one time I was like, come on. And I brought up a certain school. I won't say the school. I was like, come on, what'd they give when you were out there? Come on, what'd they offer you? And he was like, come on, what'd they give when, when, when you were out there? Come on,

then what'd they offer you? And he was like, oh man, 50K in an Escalade. That was the standard offer. You didn't negotiate it. Yeah. And that's jump change.

50K in an Escalade. There's nothing now. 50K Escalade, but non-negotiable. Everyone gets it. You can't play, no, I want 75K in an Escalade.

It's like, no, that's it. That's the deal. So yeah, after that, I was like, oh,

this is really what happens and now it's like 180,000 a house a job Nike shoes for the rest of your life job for your family what did Odin get offered

he must have had some crazy offers you guys should talk about that in Columbus cut this part so great I've talked to him about it all the time he honestly won't tell me this is the truth coming from me this he's the crazy part they none of them will talk about he's telling me the truth i don't know but i'm telling you what he's told me he says

he never got offered anything he said no way he would get to the he said he got to the nba and he got made fun of for not getting paid that's what he told me is that like all the guys in locker room be like you didn't make anything whether or not he got paid at ohio state like he definitely got offered by somebody honestly g think, honestly, Greg was so naive. I think it was his mom and his people around him that got the offers. Well, the family members don't get paid. I mean, you know Sonny Vaccaro.

He just started popping up at our AAU tournaments out of nowhere. And Greg would, like, we'd go, I'd go hang out with Greg and be like, man, Sonny Vaccaro's really nice. And I'm like, yeah, Greg, no shit, he's nice to you. What do you think, he's nice to you? He just, yeah, he's like,

I really like this old guy Sonny he seems like a really nice guy he gave me a hundred dollars want to get dinner I think it would be much more fun if Patino coach

yeah I think he needs to go to the right team where he can be successful for two months and we get excited about it and then it'll flame out that would be my dream scenario

I think I think the way it actually works is like Tate said where he's an assistant like I don't I think him jumping into the NBA, someone hiring him is a disaster. But Tate, explain why that can't work.

Nobody's going to mind his breath on their neck. My dream scenario, my only scenario that I think is possible, because he's a Hollywood man. I think he comes to LA. I think he has a meeting with Jerry West. And he says, Jerry, I love sports. I love the game of basketball. And he gets him on that bench with Doc Rivers. Doc's not going to be intimidated by anyone.

If anything, he doesn't want to do the responsibilities of being a head coach. Does Rick play golf? Of course. Oh, that's great. Doc has someone to play golf with. So you got Doc there. Doc doesn't want to do this stuff anyway. Rick just starts doing all the dirty work for him.

And then Doc can still be the face of it. Rick can be sitting there coaching Jerome Robinson, Shea Gojic-Alexander, all the young guys take care of that stuff. And then Jerry West is there. Jerry trusts him. That's like the only scenario in my head where it's got to be a team like that where Balmer's like I just love basketball people and I want to have Rick in this room that's what it has to be it has to be an owner that decides no GM's gonna decide I think he's got to be an

assistant because you got to put Patino in a spot where he's just purely focused on the basketball because this man is easily distracted by other things true we put him in a spot where it's like Rick all we're asking you to do is to develop these players. This kid can't shoot. Get him a jump shot. This guy, he doesn't understand the value of defense. I want you to break down film with him and show him how to guard these ball screens and why

this matters and how this helps our team. That's the sort of stuff you've got to put him in because he is a brilliant basketball mind. It's just, there's a lot of extracurricular with that guy. Well, if I was Rick, one of my big selling points would be the success of my dudes going into the NBA the last few years.

Yes. He'd be like Donovan Mitchell. Terry Rozier almost was the point guard. Montrezl Harrow, who's on the Clippers. Montrezl Harrow, who's been a beast. I would especially ride the Donovan Mitchell thing. Yes, he is. This guy's the next Dwayne Wade.

When I got him, he was this kid from Greenwich Country Day. It was like a reach to even think he could and i molded him and i made him tough and i could do that for shea gilders alexander whoever it is jerome robinson you're young guys let me take them under my wing well that's what he's selling i mean that's all the headlines i even saw like the yahoo guys who are ripping him you know that are writing all this stuff about the fbi i saw them like quote tweeting yesterday they're like kind of feels like the right fit like rick patino in the nba world seems like it's a match made in heaven at this point because as we know we joke about like the aau stuff and these guys not having fundamental basketball

uh being taught to them rick patino will go in there and teach them just the same way larry brown or like and we've seen former coaches like matt darty worksty works for the Pacers. Like they all have these consulting gigs where they can just basically come into practice when they want to be around the game. And I think that's what he'll get, possibly. I've kind of talked myself into this. It makes a ton of sense. It really scarily makes sense.

This would be a bold Popovich move too, right? Oh my God. Because Popovich was the only one who wouldn't be threatened by him, right? Yeah, bold is one word for it. Yeah, that would be... If you want to see Greg Popovich retire, I think Rick Pitino on his staff would be the first step. He'll just be found dead.

I got a Popovich stat list. Yeah, my God. You want to have the staff with the one female assistant in the NBA with Rick Pitino as the other assistant? No, no, no. Look at that. That's not a good book. the staff with the one female assistant in the NBA with Rick Pitino is the other shit. That's not a good book. I think Michael Jordan would give Rick Pitino a chance to be on staff with the Hornets. I don't think anyone else would

agree to it, but I think he would reach out. That's for sure. I'm trying to... This is a man who wanted Larry Brown to get interviewed. Let me ask you this one. The Wizards. Because their coach is in danger. rick patino save the john wall bradley beal otto porter like the weird chemistry yeah probably not would be my answer

probably not answer me probably not i would watch i think that's the selling point the nba is entertainment like at the end of the day it is entertainment and if you get a guy to come that's what i here's what i think so all the i live in a middle america i have this anxiety that like all these middle america nba teams in 20 years are going to not exist all now that we're given players autonomy to do whatever they want no player is ever going to be like i want to play for the milwaukee bucks i want to play right yeah this is gonna be a good test case yeah like everyone's just going to move to the coast and the middle American teams are screwed.

The Pacers are always going to be screwed. This is the frustrating life as someone who kind of cares about the Pacers. So why not one of these teams bring in Patino and like make that,

all right, like listen, we know we're not going to get free agents. We know we're not ever going to be that great, but what we do have is we have Rick Patino. We have an obvious thought.

We're going to press for 82 games. We're going to get these guys that no other team wanted. They're going to dump them to us and we have a stop. We have an obvious thought. We're going to press for 82 games. We're going to get these guys that no other team wanted. They're going to dump them to us. We have an identity. We have a reason to care. We're going to be a train wreck maybe, but at least you'll watch. It'd be funny if Pitino was like, people think you

can't cheat in the NBA because of the salary cap. I figured out a couple new ways. He just holds up a bag of cash. I figured out ways to pay our players. It's all under the table. We're going to circumvent the seller cap with millions and millions. Can I ask you guys quickly? Like you mentioned how the Yahoo guys were all mad about Patino and the FBI.

Well, they're loving it, but yeah. They're getting a bunch of traffic and how bad it is and all that stuff. But then we also think it's bad that college basketball players don't get paid enough. Can you be in both corners at the same time? Don't you either have to be pro-cheating, anti-players should get paid, or you can't be in both sides? They've waited in the waters pretty well.

No one ever brings that up that you write on both sides. You talk out of both sides of your mouth, but that is college basketball. College basketball is the craft. What's the right side? The right side is to let players profit off their likeness. I think it's a can of worms.

Sell jerseys. If you pay players salary, you are... So college basketball inherently, it is a big business. It's a billion dollar business. But at its core, college basketball is not a business.

It is... I mean, it's cheesy to say, but it's, it exists not to make money. It exists to, to offer an extracurricular activity for, again, this is really hokey way of saying it, but that is at it's that's the mission statement. They didn't say it. Right. So as soon as you start paying players, you, you completely remove any guys of amateurism whatsoever. And now you're basically on level footing with the NBA. And now you are directly competing with the NBA because you're paying your players.

You've now created a professional league. And what's the difference between this? And no one's going to want to watch that at that point. I mean, I don't know. The salary thing is a can of worms that I don't think people really think out other than just like, give the kids their money. So I think the way to get around it

is let them sign autographs, do commercials. Well, so if Zion's Duke jersey sells like gangbusters this year, it's weird if he doesn't make money on that. Right, he should make money off that. I'm saying that you shouldn't like go to a high school kid and be like, we'll offer you 200 grand salary for this one year.

Because that becomes a problem with, they're still doing it as we found out. I don't like it. Do you guys like the G League before we go? The 30 team G League with everybody makes 125 K and high school players can be in it. I think it's, it has no bearing on college basketball.

I think it's a great idea. Like I think that's, that's ultimately what the problem is, is that the kids have no choice. They basically have to go to the college. I mean, cause I mean, you could say they could go overseas,

but that's not a real alternative. So that's the real issue with the kids not being played is they don't have a choice. You give them a choice to go to the G League. At that point, I think the NCAA wants that. I think the NCAA is like, sweet, now we don't have to,

we're not exploiting anybody. The people that come to our system are choosing to come to our system. There is another system that exists over here. But I don't think it's going to do anything to college basketball, really. Like people that love college basketball don't love college basketball

because the players are the best. Because if that was the case, we'd just watch going to do anything to college basketball, really. People that love college basketball don't love college basketball because the players are the best. Because if that was the case, we'd just watch the NBA. We love college basketball because it's our schools that we went to. Well, it's like MLS. MLS is double-A soccer, and the crowd's having an awesome time, and they don't care. They just like doing the chants. Yeah, so even if the top 20 recruits every year go to the G League,

college basketball is going to be fine. It's going to have no bearing on them. What would you rather do, play in the G League, Tate, or go to college for six months and then leave college and like leave late March after you get eliminated from March Madness because you got to work for your body for workouts? I think everyone is still going to go to college, those top guys. But I think the G League thing is going to be the fail safe

when you get caught cheating, which is sort of the thing that really makes me – like Brian Bowen at Louisville, the guy that got $100,000 in the whole story with Rick Pitino, he just would have gone straight to the G League and taken the $125,000 contract after he got, you know, after the G League said that he could.

So now it's going to be like the secondary option to those guys, which they're already going to have a black mark for, you know, being a cheater or whatever. Then they're going to go to the G League and just get lost in the shuffle. So I don't really feel- So they have a black mark to be a cheater, but then everybody's're going to go in the G League and just get lost in the shuffle. So I don't really feel- So they have a black mark to be a cheater,

but then everybody's like, college basketball players need to get paid. Yeah, right. That's the part I don't understand. We should all be for these guys to grab money. Let's say the Zion conversation for your podcast because that's its own 40 minutes. Oh, 40.

Or if Joe House calls him Z. He's already called him Z. Joe House comes in and he's like- That's weird for me because I call my daughter Z. I got to reconcile that. Well, Joe House treats him like his son already, so he's called him Z. I'm so excited for him. When's his first game?

Tuesday. A week from today. The last college player I was this excited for was Ben Simmons who let me down profoundly and mailed in the last month of the season. It was on the worst possible team. And by the way, Blake Dean was on that team. Like that team should have

at least made the playoffs. The more you think about it, you're like, oh my goodness. It's like, what the hell just happened? And then before that, Durant. But Zion,

it's like I'm at another level. Zion, you should be at another level. There's no, there has never been anybody like him. It's insane. I want this to be Barkley crossed with Vince Carter

crossed with like Corliss Williams' body. The best part is, unlike Simmons, like Duke is going to be really good. So you don't have to worry about Zion going to NIT. I'm going to get him in big games with good announcers. But the flip side of that is, they're not going to be so dominant that it feels like

it's not unfair. So those of us who like college basketball aren't going to be oh my god, Duke is 36-0 going into the final four or anything like that alright let's save let's save this for your part

we'll save it we'll save this I'm glad we got to talk out Coach P fellas good luck on the world tour say hi to everybody in Austria

Austria is on the list right Austria Columbus Paris should be great just reach global reach.

You can listen to the One Shining podcast on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, fellas. Hey, let's talk about 99designs, a global creative platform headquartered in Melbourne, Australia. It makes it easy for designers and clients to work together from logos and apps

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You're back. Bill Simmons, thank you for having me, sir. I don't remember the last time you were here, but it's been a while. Last time I was here, I was promoting my first book, Black Privilege Opportunity Comes to Those Who Create It. So when did you write that one? I wrote that in 2016 because it came out April of 2017. That was the last time you were here?

Yeah. Yeah. I came here to promote the book, Black Regulars. Yeah. And then I was on The Breakfast Club. And you came on The Breakfast Club. And then I haven't seen you since. This is bullshit.

And you wrote a new book. Yeah. Shook one. Anxiety playing tricks on me, which I didn't plan to write. But, you know, I started going to therapy like early last year. And so when I started going to therapy, I was writing down, you know, I started going to therapy like early last year. And so when I started going to therapy, I was writing down, you know, everything that was happening in my therapy sessions. And I was writing down things that gave me anxiety and things that historically had gave

me anxiety. And then, you know how it is when you're talking to a therapist, you start, you know, she starts making you unpack things that you didn't even really know existed inside of you. So things that you suppressed and marginalized in yourself start coming out. So I started getting to the source of my PTSD and trauma from things happening to me when I was younger. What was your PTSD? Oh, all kinds of stuff. I mean-

Just from how you grew up? Yeah. Having guns pulled on me. Yeah. You know, getting almost jumped in front of the radio station. Oh, yeah. I remember that. I've been in like two fights in front of the radio station, you know?

Just all kinds of stuff. Like having, I remember that. I've been in like two fights in front of the radio station. Yeah. Just all kind of stuff like having to run from police, just anything. PTSD from being fired four times. That's why I don't have an office at the radio station. I refuse to have an office. Oh, for luck?

No, because- It's bad luck if you get an office? You get fired and you got to pack everything up and leave the fucking building with that box in your hand and you look all stupid

with HR behind you. You know what I mean? Nobody got time for that shit. Like, if you fire me, I'm out. Peace. Thank you. I'm gone. When I had Grantland, the corner office,

somebody was in it and their whole department got laid off and I was going to take the office. That was the biggest office. It was the corner. I should take that. And I moved in there and I didn't unpack anything. No. And people are like, why haven't you decorated the office yet?

And I was like, I don't know. Like, what if I leave? Then I have to. No, personalities like us. I was right. I had the right instinct. Yeah, because personalities like us really never truly have job security. Well, that's why I decorated this because, you know, I own the ringer.

Yeah, I can't get fired. 100%. That's how I feel in my podcast. I feel really secure right now. I love the fact that podcasts are growing the way they are, though. Yeah. Because the podcast deals that are coming across the table now are like, wow. I can really make a living off this shit.

Well, Joe Budden just did a big thing with Spotify, right? Joe Budden did a big deal with Spotify. Are you pro Joe Budden? No, that's my guy. No, that's my guy. I've been knowing Joe since 2003 because his grandmother

lives in Sumter, South Carolina and I used to do radio in Columbia, South Carolina. So Joe used to come down to Sumter and come to my radio show in Columbia. So Joe used to be

at my house playing spades back in 03. Spades? Yeah, we're like frenemies though. We're like Professor X and Magneto. Like we both want the same thing. Right. We just got-

I was going to say, you're on each other's corner a little bit. Yeah, we just got two different approaches on how we choose to get there. I've never been on his show, but he did a whole basketball thing and he was reading this old column that I wrote for like three minutes about some draft.

He's very- I was all excited that I got name dropped on the Joe Budden podcast. You should have him on. He's very, very well versed in like hip hop, sports culture. You know I judge everybody about whether they like sports or not. That's the only gauge you got, Bill? No. I have more.

Oh. No, if you like sports and you like basketball, I'm positive I can get a podcast out of you. But that's the common thread, though, right? Because you got something in common with a person. Yeah. Or movies. It's got to be like some sort of mutual thing. How deep do you go, though?

What's your favorite movie? What do you mean? I have so many favorite movies. That's why we started this podcast called The Rewatchables, just because I've seen all these movies so many times so what's a classic movie to you I mean probably

my favorite ever the one I've seen the most times is 48 Hours okay so that's not too deep but I think when you turn 13 whatever your favorite movie was

when you were 13 ends up being your favorite movie but I think The Godfather to me is still number one because it's 1972 but still relevant somebody who's 9 years old can. Because it's 1972, but still relevant.

Somebody who's nine years old can watch it. There's still life lessons in it. It's about family and betrayal and all these things. See, I was thinking you're one of these independent film watchers that watch these fucking artsy-ass films. I watch everything. That cost $800,000 to make. What was that shit with the tiger and the boat

that won all the awards? Tiger and the boat? That shit was so stupid. Well, so I hate that and i i didn't like uh what was the one last year that what that one best picture fucking alien in the tub yeah oh i hated that what is wrong with white people i was so mad shape of water i'm like what the what drugs are people on to think that this shit is cool we were on a crusade here we want to get out to win the best film because we're like in 10 years people are gonna remember get out first yeah nobody's gonna remember this alien in the bathtub movie nobody's gonna disappear shape of water had

no impact on the culture whatsoever it had an impact on the industry the film industry and they made it seem like it was this great thing but get out had an impact on the culture and it had an impact on the film industry like we're still saying yo kanye west is in the sunken place so you know what i mean like we're still referencing things from get out and it's on cable all the time which tells me that people are re-watching it i was it's it's not a secret if if something's on over and over again like heat's on all the time it's like yeah because people like heat people like fucking uh good jump back in goodfellas is on all the time. They like Minister Society.

Yeah, there's a reason. The Lion King. Juice is on a lot. I love Juice. Juice is kind of the sneaky one from that whole era. Nah. No, it is though. Nah, nah, nah, not the sneaky one.

Because Boys in the Hood. Classic. Minister Society. Minister Society. Classic. New Jack City. New Classic. But then Juice never gets thrown into that first sentence.

Yes, it does. I'll tell you the sneaky one. By people who know it's a good one. I'll tell you the sneaky one. It's Kyle's favorite movie. Juice? Juice? No, I don't think so.

Oh, is it Juman's favorite movie? It's Juman. Oh, yeah. The sneaky one is Set It Off. Oh. Set It Off is the sneaky one. Set It Off came a little bit after, just a little bit after those movies. It's Vivica, right?

Vivica Fox, Queen Latifah, Jada Pinkett Smith, and Kimberly Elise. That's the sneaky one. That's the one that's really a classic, but people didn't really look at it as a classic because of this thing called sexism and shit like that. New Jack City. Classic. Snipes crying. The tear running down his cheek.

That whole rooftop scene. Rooftop scene was great. Rooftop scene is emotional. Didn't need the tear. Didn't need the tear? You thought Wesley wasn't putting forth too much? Wasn't a Denzel and Glory type of tear. You know what I'm saying?

Wasn't a Viola Davis snot bubble. Like, that tear is not a memorable moment for me. Snot bubble won her the Oscar. Snot bubble won the Oscar. I don't know if she wins the Oscar without the snot bubble. Probably not. The thing with Wesley on the roof,ba won the Oscar. I don't know if she wins the Oscar without the Snot Bubba. Probably not. The thing with Wesley on the Roof, it was

the dialogue. Am I my brother's keeper? Yes, I am. So good. That movie's 30 years old. It's 30? Yeah. It's like 1990. It's almost 30 years old. Why the fuck was I watching that at 10? Where were my parents?

I had John... Did you have John David Washington on The Breakfast Club? Where were my parents? I had John. Did you have John David Washington on The Breakfast Club? Denzel's son? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did. We did. I was saying to him, he's just got to do the Snipes playbook for the next five, six years. He's going to do the sports movie. He's got to do the gangster movie.

He's got to do the buddy cop movie. He could just. That lean is sitting there for him. Snipes had this five, six year run. It was just epic. It's going to be hard for that guy. Why? Because of the Denzel something?

But he's a good actor though. He's a good actor, but his dad is a legendary, great classic actor. But you don't think that's a good thing for him? Because everybody loves Denzel. So people, normally it would be, ah, this guy, it's only because he's so-and-so's son. But in this case, it's like, I he's done so-and-so's son but in this case it's like I love Denzel I'm rooting for his son it's hard to break out the shadow of your father when he's

that legendary even if you're in a whole different lane like even when we see EJ we still say that's magic son you know what I mean like I see EJ out you know walking in like eight inch heels and I'm like yo he's got all the athletic gifts his father has yeah you know it's like six eight six eight big dude graceful athletic so it's like no matter what you do even if you're a whole nother lane when your father is that great you're gonna always get compared to your well he's like he turned into a gay icon though i think he paved his own way he is but he's not the magic johnson no he's wow magics come on you know what i'm saying like like i'm saying like when you when you get to that level where you're like, people, you're the bar. Like, people are like, you're the Jordan of this

or the Magic Johnson of that. Like, he's not the Magic Johnson. When I was doing the show with Jalen, Jalen revered Magic for a hundred reasons, but he was called the mogul. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, the thing everyone sleeps on with Magic is he's the mogul.

I don't like that. He was the first one who who put together i'm gonna use sports to build all these other things because people think jordan did it no but magic was was much more of i think a businessman jordan belatedly kind of followed suit but magic was the first one jordan was the brand guy the endorsement deals yeah the sneaker and doing commercials yes magic was the business the movie theaters the starbucks. Yes. Magic was the business, the movie theaters, the Starbucks. But I don't like the mogul conversation when we're talking about sports. Why?

Because people try to act like the moguldom makes you so great on the court. Like, that's how they try to. Well, that's what it's like now. I know. And they do that with rap, too. Like, you're like, who's the greatest rapper of all time? Now, I think Jay-Z's one of the greatest rappers of all time. No question. But then they'll be like, look at jay he's married beyonce and he's

got this business and that business what that got to do with the bars though yeah you know what i mean and it's the same thing in basketball it's like i love magic i think magic is one of the greatest players of all time because he's one of the greatest players of all time same thing with lebron like yo what lebron does off the court has nothing to do with him on it. Is he a great man off the court? Yes, a great human being, great businessman. But on the court, he ain't Jordan. He's not Magic either. I have him second.

Of all time? Yeah. Nah. 15 years now. Now he's in year 16. Third. He's never really been hurt. No, he hasn't.

So the problem with Magic is he really only had he was rookie year was 79. I think he had 12 years. LeBron's already played three plus more years than he did. I was having that convo yesterday. I was like, Jordan played, what, 13 years. We don't count the wizard shit. So he played 13 years.

I'm a wizard defender. Really? Yeah. I thought he was pretty good on the wizards. He was so old. He was like, his knees were done. He couldn't, and he was still putting up like 20 plus a game and made them competitive. And I don't know. It wasn't the worst thing in the world.

I think it's being remembered incorrectly. I don't think we should remember it at all. We shouldn't even count it. I'd choose the Bulls things, but I just like that he came back from three years off and was still able to average 20 a game. I thought it was underrated.

If your second comeback has to be on par with your first comeback. Well, that's true. You know what I'm saying? I just think people think it's like when Letterman hosted the Oscars that time and now everyone's like, oh, what a disaster. It's like, it wasn't a disaster. Go watch it. It was fine.

Letterman hosting the Oscars might've been a disaster because I don't even remember that shit. Yeah, it was the only time he ever did it. I don't even remember Letterman hosting the Oscars. He hosted the best Oscars that we've probably had in the last 25 years.

It was Pulp Fiction, Shawshank, Forrest Gump. It was just like a great movie. You didn't even need a host for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just could've. Why you got LeBron third though? So over Kobe?

I mean, you got LeBron second over Magic? Yeah. Over Kobe? I look at it this way.ron second over Magic? Yeah. Over Kobe? I look at it this way. This is how I based it around my book. It's like I get this person from year one. Okay.

Who do I want? That's why I had Kareem in my book was third. Because if I have Kareem, I have 19 years of Kareem. I have 19 years of this automatic two points as my center. With Jordan, I know if he's at the peak of his powers, I'm winning the title. As long as I put a decent team around him, I'm winning. So I think with LeBron now,

I'm going to get 20 years of LeBron at the highest level. And if I put teams around him, I'm competitive, or players around him, I'm competitive every year. It seems like you're just giving him participation trophies though, as opposed to like what he's actually accomplished. Made the finals eight straight years yeah but so why we don't put the buffalo bills up there's one of the greatest nfl teams

of all time then what does that mean four mvps and it's one one and listen lebron's great i'm just saying i can't put him over jordan i can't i'm not putting him over jordan i can't put him over magic and i can't put him over kobe and i'm gonna tell you something there's something to be said about adversity. I like guys that, when you talk about, if you want to talk about off-the-court stuff, I like guys that get over obstacles that happen to them off-the-court.

So you have, what's your 1-2-3 for NBA then? You know, it's interesting, man, because I feel like it's a good case for Magic Johnson to be number one. You're talking about a guy that went to the finals nine times. Yeah.

Won five of them. Won his rookie year. You know, you look at the adversity he faced in, what was it, game six of his first NBA finals when Kareem was hurt and he stepped in and played center. Yeah. Like, and you're talking about out of 13 seasons, he went to the finals nine times, won five. Like, he was a winner his, like, whole career. He took a lot of shit after the 84 finals. Which one was the 84? Because he choked against the Celtics.

And that summer, it was like Tragic Johnson and all this stuff. And that was—that's what made him better. And he bounced back. He bounced back from it. And he revolutionized the point guard position. 6'9", you know, 240, 250. Like, he's more—LeBron is more comparable to him than he is yeah to michael jordan and kobe's more michael than anybody he's like uh stronger magic basically yeah 100 he's a

big fucking dude and you had him on breakfast club who lebron yeah no lebron's not doing breakfast club breakfast club is so beneath lebron james he would he would but is it though he is somebody that really cares about his image. That's a great move for him to go on that show. I don't think he needs it, man. Plus, I used to give Donkey of the Day to a lot of people around him. Like, remember when his mom was dating,

what was it, the real Lambo or something like that? Yeah, I used to give Donkey of the Day to Lambo a whole lot. Yeah, it was weird, bro. It was, yeah. Do you think LeBron has, like if he came on Breakfast Club, could you get a good hour out of him?

Yeah, I think LeBron's a very well-spoken individual. I'm not saying he's not well-spoken. I'm saying, would he say anything? How would he be willing to actually, like, kind of drop the guard a little bit and have, like, an honest one one hour conversation. I think people know that with the Breakfast Club, you kind of have to. Yeah, because Breakfast Club, it's you and Stern. Those are the two shows where it's like,

you're doing it, you're doing it. Yeah. You can't half-ass do the show. Yeah, because I'm going to ask you to leave. You're not going to be behind. I'm like, yo, okay, man. Thank you, man. You're not in here saying nothing.

It's a great gimmick. It's okay. It's not even a gimmick though. No, no. Or a great, I don't know what's the word. We live in an age's a great i don't know what's the word we live in an age of transparency great trait yeah we live in an age of transparency so people know they have to be transparent in certain situations breakfast club is absolutely one of them lebron will probably come wear a hat on purpose so i don't mention his hairline you know what i mean like little things like that like

little things like that i know he'll probably do so you know but i think he i think he might come why not your boy's prowling the office again yeah that's wax wax oh man wax wax likes coming here oh boy i'll leave it i'll leave it at that okay it's halloween time too he's looking for a treat he's gonna start walking a lot yes absolutely he i wish he was here sometimes when uh there's casting auditions for certain spots and because they have all these TV shows and all that. He would enjoy some of the auditions. There's just a line of people waiting to audition. You can imagine sometimes they're auditioning for certain parts

that he would probably enjoy. I'm scared of all. Well, first of all, I'm a happily married man, so I live vicariously through guys like Wax. I know. I've been faithful to my wife now. I'm going on three years sober, and I'm know, I'm happy about that, you know? So I live by character through guys like him.

I mean, I just like to hear the stories. But then, you know, the reason I really like to hear the stories is because it's emotionally exhausting for me. And it makes me feel like I'm so glad I don't got to put up with that shit no more. Yeah, you got him out of it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like when you're in your hotel room and you hear ruckus in the hallway and you're looking out the hall and there's a hitting on him and yeah you know he's trying to get her out the room like who got time for that type of shit man like it's just too much like it's too it's emotionally draining for me so i can only

imagine how how he feels that's why i have nephew kyle you're gonna bring that yeah that's on and on you're getting a lot of pussy out here in these streets yeah i'm basically dating rosie perez from white man can't jump so You're dating Rosie? First of all, I don't like the fact that you said you're dating Rosie Perez from White Man Can't Jump. Like, I'm not 40 years old.

Okay? There's a lot of similarities. Yeah, you're right. I know who Rosie Perez is. Okay? Well, he meant the character. Oh! Not actually Rosie Perez.

The character. The crazy character from that movie. What was wrong with her? Nah, she just got a lot going on. She's a little hot-blooded. She was dope.

She was fucking the Jeopardy champion. You know what I'm saying? She was a go-getter. She held... That's why I'm still here. I'm just saying. It comes with a lot of baggage. She held Woody down when Woody was broke.

So his roommate is the one doing L.A. correctly. Oh, he's getting all the pussy. Yeah, he's... So it's this whole scene now that I just don't understand. I feel like I'm 200 years old. This whole Tinder bumble. Just get this text notification

and it's like, all right, I'm going to go meet this person. I don't got time for that shit. I don't understand it. No, I'm old school. I don't understand how that works. Because I feel like I don't like to waste my time.

So it's just like... But the beauty about Instagram is that you can really look at a woman's Instagram page and really see who she is and what she's about. That's why I don't understand why about Instagram is like, you can really look at a woman's Instagram page. Right. And really see who she is. You can dip into their soul. And what she's about. That's why I don't understand why Catfish is still on the fucking air.

Like Catfish is really taking advantage of mentally disabled people in America. I'm serious. Because only mentally disabled people would still be on Catfish. And you know it's still on the air. That shit is still on the air right now. Well, they usually have to go to like, yeah, weird, weird states. People where they don't have no Wi-Fi. Clearly.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Just enough Wi-Fi where they can only receive pictures. They can't do nothing else. No Skypes, no IG lives, no Facebook lives, no nothing. Like there's no reason for somebody to still be getting catfished in 2018. What do you care more about, Twitter or Instagram? Instagram.

The reason I care more about Instagram is because I care about visuals more than what people have to say. And I feel like Twitter is just so out of context. Like at least on Instagram, somebody can post a video and you can hear it right out of their mouth for the most part. You know what I mean? Even though they will take some of those videos and chop them up and take those out of context too. But on Twitter, everything is really out of context. So it's just like, I prefer Instagram. I like Twitter for self-promotion. Really? And for reaction. Like during the Red Sox,

they 18 in a game on Friday. I liked having Twitter. My observations as the game was going, they just kind of expire by the time I do a podcast or something, it's gone. I just think Instagram is a better everything. I stopped.

It's just safer. It's like hey here's some pictures and if you want to be a dick you're buried in these comments underneath but

I don't know I just like the format it's so much I don't go on Facebook ever I mean if Facebook hadn't bought Instagram I feel like Facebook would be like

cratering right now yeah I don't go on Facebook because my father's on Facebook and I yeah I don't want to be anywhere where my father is I love my father but I don't want to be on Facebook watching him and his wife post fucking matching outfits and shit. That's what it turned into.

Yeah, you know what I mean? I went to a Red Sox game with one of my good friends, Sully, and his wife has a big Facebook poster. And we were just ragging on her about Facebook. It was like, oh, let's take a picture. You can put it on Facebook. And she was like, what? Is Facebook not cool anymore? And we're like, no, it's not cool at all and all my family members that hate me like literally all my family

members that hate me are like old friends from monks corner south carolina facebook is their place for them to come together and shit on me every time you have like angry family members oh my god what are they mad about anything they just don't like me for any but it's just like it literally last year my first book changed everything. Because I think that they were like, he's talking about us in this book. I changed all the names in my book, right? And I told these stories. You're like, my uncle Johnny.

Yes. My cousin Anthony or whoever. And then they would be like, yo, all he's doing is telling a bunch of lies in this book. So my father goes, well, if he changed all the names in the book, how do you know he's talking about you if he's lying? Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like they literally go on Facebook and just talk shit about me.

Like when my new book came out, Shook One, before it came out, somebody made up a whole meme, and the meme said, he's coming out with another book full of lies. Hashtag Shook One. And I'm looking like, oh, somebody from Monk's Corner. It's like your uncle, Bob Charlemagne. It ain't really my uncle. Your cousin, Tony Charlemagne.

Yeah, it'd be like my cousin. It's more so my cousins that I grew up with. And like, just like a couple people I went to school with. Nothing crazy, crazy. Yeah. But just enough to annoy the fuck out of me a little bit. You know what I'm saying? So we were talking before we started the pod about how the people you're getting on The Breakfast Club has changed.

Yes. And what the reasons for that might be. Yes. And we were theorizing that somehow you pass this invisible point where you get on these lists. Yeah. With people who are trying to promote a movie or whatever. And I'm lucky enough to be in those lists too. But what do you think happened with The Breakfast Club

where just people out here in LA were like, all right, we'll do this one or this one. And we should do The Breakfast Club. Because two years ago it was like, don't go on The Breakfast Club. That's crazy. They'll ask you anything. They'll pin you in a corner.

Yeah. So what changed? I think hip hop is pop culture. And, you know, like there's no genre bigger than hip-hop i think hip-hop covers all demographics more so than any other genre of of music our culture has like you white black asian old young you know gay straight like hip-hop covers it all um i think the breakfast breakfast club is at the center of that you know we're getting like i think four million daily listeners or something crazy like that.

Some crazy metric. On the radio or on digital? Shit, 4 million? Well, that might be including everything. Yeah. But then it's just like the digital component. Well, your YouTube, it's like anytime you have an interview, it's half a million people in two days.

Yeah, that's a whole nother aspect. So we make news. Like a lot of people follow the news. They follow the stories. million people in two days yeah that's a whole another aspect so we we make news like we like a lot of people follow the news they follow the stories the breakfast club by the grace of god has created a lot of news over the past eight years so i think people just know it's worth their while and you know we do things like like we sell books like you know you you go out on these press tours and be like you need to go do this show because this place sells books are this is where you go if you want people to really watch your movie, things of that nature.

So I think people know we actually move culture. Like people come on our show, they see their social media followers go up. They see their book numbers jump. They see their TV ratings jump. So I think that's the reason. It's awareness with people that might not know that Jonah Hill has a movie coming out. Yes. And we're always a little bit ahead of the curve when it comes to, like, who's next, so to speak.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, somebody like Tiffany Haddish. Yeah, you're having her on for. Like. Yeah. I don't even. Last March or something like that.

Way before Girls Trip or anything like that, you know? And it blew up for her. Like like that did really well for her. Like Andrew Gillum, the politician from Florida, we had him on in February, you know, of this year when he had just I think he was just about to announce he's running for governor. And like that propelled him, you know, a lot. So I just think people realize that it's a space where they can come in. It gives their little situation an uptick, whatever their situation is. Let's take a break to talk about health. Guys are terrible at taking care of their health. Studies show 70% of guys who experience erectile dysfunction don't get treated for it, and that's bad.

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It's all prescribed online, delivered straight to your door in discreet, unmarked packaging. Guys, go talk to the doctor. Erectile dysfunction is a problem that guys don't tackle, but it's really important. And now with Roman, it's really easy to take care of it for a free online visit. Go to getroman.com slash bill. And since we're here, don't forget to check out the big picture, our movie podcast, which we launched last week. If you love movies and if you love the ringer, check it out, subscribe to the big picture on the ringer podcast network back to Charlemagne. Well, what you're saying about the how it's becoming more of the culture i think it's a really interesting point and i put in the prism of snl the prison

move so no and snl so i think about snl prism oh prism i'm like what so the prism move so with snl like snl starts in the mid 70s and it's capturing this culture that is out there, but it hasn't been on TV, right? It's like this improv culture, like super political, going after the president, all this stuff, and just taps into it. And that's the reason this show succeeds for the 70s. And then it kind of morphs over time. When it started succeeding again in the 90ss it was very pop culture heavy because that's what people it was pre-internet people a lot of their common ground was like sports movies tv it was able to capture that do impressions things like that now i look at it this decade shit sucks

well what do they need to succeed now bill because that shit sucks well but the thing is the most important person on that show is chris red who's love chris red chris red's fucking great he was the one who did the con he went two weeks ago i like pete pete davidson pete's good but michael shea so here's the thing what you were saying about how the hip-hop culture is the culture now but snl doesn't reflect that culture not at all it's still doing the show from 20 years ago exactly but meanwhile who who are the people that are controlling everything right now from an interest standpoint it's nba players yes it's hip-hop artists yes like if we did a list of like who are the biggest 40 celebrity

influencers right now most of them would be black well could you tell white people that i'm telling them right now yes because that the problem is at these networks you have these culturally clueless executives but now that now that's flipping because it was like is it oh blackish that's a success maybe we should have more black people shows yeah and then it's like oh get out oh that's interesting maybe we should fund more you're right so it's and shauna gets 300 million from netflix now i feel like it's starting to shift yeah but it's not just about- Insecure. Insecure, Atlanta, like all of that stuff. Atlanta is another one.

Like it's starting to shift. I can feel it, but I still feel like Hollywood's going to be six, seven years behind. They're still keeping us out of like spaces that we should be in. Like I hate the fact that there's no black late night host on a major network. Like that shit is whack.

Does that even, does a late night host even matter as much as it did? Yes. You know what, I was thinking about this the other day. Think about think about it right think about daytime television and late night television right think about so daytime i think is more interesting that shit is why isn't there a black ellen that's what i'm saying especially being at the bar for daytime television is is something that nobody could have uh predicted would work well does it bother you winfrey right oprah winfrey crazy name oprah she was heavy set black woman nobody would have ever thought oprah would have become who she became she revolutionized television why didn't people keep doing more of that look at

wendy williams right wendy williams came from radio she's six foot she's kevin loves height you know i'm saying kevin loves the whole stature is wendy williams and she's killing on on daytime television so why don't they think more outside the box even ellen ellen is a a lesbian woman like that's not supposed to work on daytime tv middle america's supposed to hate ellen the problem is when they do decide whoa it ends up being michael strahan mich Michael's good, though. I know, but that's not the person who's going to compete with Ellen. No, but he's kind of an anomaly, too, though,

because you wouldn't expect Michael Strahan. When you say he's good, is he good at football or is he good at everything? Do I care about his opinion on there was a bombing at a Pittsburgh synagogue? No, hell no.

Not even a little bit, no. But he's a good host. He's just a good, fun host. I think he was in the right spot with Kelly Ripa. Really? I do. I think But he's a good host. He's just a good, fun host. I think he was in the right spot with Kelly Ripa. Really? I do. I think that was a really good show.

The guy who just got fired, Ben Sherwood. Yeah. He pulls Michael Strahan off that show, causes a big fucking ruckus, puts Michael Strahan on GMA, red as the world's changing

with Trump. Now I have Michael Strahan on GMA after having to talk about all this serious shit. I don't want to hear it like nobody wants to hear about it. Now that doesn't work. So it's like, well, we'll actually give him

his own morning show. So now I've moved him two times and I have to overpay Ryan Seacrest to make the Kelly Ripa show work. That's four different moves out of one move. Yeah, Michael Strahan's gap is too distracting to talk about any serious topic. They should have just shown the gap. That's what I'm saying. Imagine as he's trying to talk to you about serious subjects,

all you're focusing on is that fucking gap. And you're like, bro, what, what happened at, what happened? I think he's good. I don't think he should be on TV seven days a week.

I like him as a host. Should he be on seven days a week? I didn't know he was on seven days a week. Yeah, he's on seven days a week. I didn't know. I thought he was only on during the week. Six days a week.

No, he's on the Fox football on Sundays. But even still, he's, he's, he's an anomaly. Football player, six foot whatever, big dude. You wouldn't think that he'd be a fun, cuddly, friendly guy on daytime television.

I'm just saying, why doesn't daytime TV go after the oddballs more? Like who? Give me one that you think should have a daytime show that doesn't have one. A daytime show that doesn't have one. Well, the greatest one ever would be Tiffany. It would get canceled, but it would be- You know, I would go after somebody like Amanda Seals. You know what I'm saying? I think Amanda Seals would be great on daytime television.

She could be like the Donahue type. You know what I'm saying? Somebody like that would be great on daytime TV. That black audience is underrepresented, and I think that's the biggest reason why First Take took off. Really? Oh, yeah. I remember the metrics when they were showing it when I was at ESPN.

It was like the show. Black people love the show. I don't know why the fuck I used to watch First Take so much. I will say. People love Stephen A. I did like Stephen A. I used to like Skip too though. I used to like Skip too.

They were good together. I used to like Skip too. I've given steven a donkey of the day a few times but you you fuck with him though right yeah i fuck with the show i like i like steven a i just think you know what i think with steven a sometimes i think that a lot of those guys become characters of their self well you have to do no you're on tv four or five hours a day and you it becomes karaoke a little bit you have to be careful yeah but you got to check yourself yeah i mean i can have that that that that's that's definitely happened to me with

radio because sometimes you you know when you start seeing articles about yourself that shit is weird because i don't think about myself in that way like i'm not sitting around like hey i'm the hip-hop howard stern or this guy like i don't think i'm a shock jock like i don't think about that shit so when you're reading it about yourself and you're like, oh, this is what people like. I think subconsciously you start giving people more of that, you know? Well, you do. You get bored sometimes. When you get bored, you just start asking sex questions.

No, not anymore. You got out of that? Yeah. I started asking about therapy now. Oh, that's your new thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sex was so much more interesting. Yeah, but you know what?

That goes into the whole Howard Stern shtick. True. You know what I'm saying? Like, you start hearing, oh, you're the hip-hop Howard Stern, so you think, okay, this is what people want, you know? And then you fucking got to take it. I always thought you were genuinely interested in the sex stuff, though. Maybe you got bored of it after a while.

Not really. I mean, not as much as I thought I was. You know what I'm saying? And then you got your wife at home asking you why the fuck you're talking to me. Yeah, why are you asking her about this? So that's the real story. Your wife didn't want to. That's one.

Yeah. And then, you know, I saw the Me Too Time's Up movement coming. Yeah. You know what I mean? I saw that coming four years ago. Yeah. I thought it was going to start with Hillary being in the White House, though. I would say, if you go look back and listen to my old podcast, even on The Breakfast Club,

I'd be telling all my homeboys and stuff like, yo, stop calling women bitches. Stop calling them hoes. Okay. I said, when Hillary gets in the White House, they going to be fed up with this shit. It's going to be women's empowerment time. I was telling everybody that. But I think it kind of was like the reverse. It's almost like Donald Trump got into the White House. So it kind of like created Batman. Like there was no need for Batman until Gotham got all of these villains. And so it was just like when this big villain came into the white house then it created all these superheroes in the culture of of women how how much trump is on your show these days do you deal with them at all or um yeah we do i don't i don't does your audience care does they want to hear hear you

talk about it it depends what it is you know i just think it, I just think it's like beating a dead horse at this point. Like, how many different ways are you going to say somebody's a piece of shit? Like, it's like it's fatigue. Like, I don't even care anymore. Like, yo, let's all go vote on November 6th. You know what I mean? See if they can get the House and the Senate back. But then I also got a thing with Democrats, too.

It's like, yo, what have the Democrats done for black people lately? You know what I mean? Like, you're rushing me out here to go vote vote vote which i will do but i still want to hold these people accountable once they get into these offices because i don't feel like they're doing enough for us and black people are way too loyal to the democratic party for democrats not to be you know doing things that directly impact us in our interests. Yeah. I don't know what to think anymore. Me neither. But I don't feel like it's a party thing. I mean, obviously it's a party thing in a lot of ways

because whoever has the majority is going to be the ones that make shit happen. But if there was some Republican who I felt like could heal some of this shit and bring people together, I'd vote for that person. Me too. I was looking at Republicans.

I don't care what part of they are. I don't want the country to be divided anymore. And we're, it's a divided country now. It's going to always be divided. But it's divided in a really dangerous way now.

But we have to stop, we have to stop marketing division. That's what we're doing right now. Well, yeah. It's like, I care about my base and fuck everyone else.

And that's just where we are. And I don't, I don't think that's a, the Democrats do it too. I don't think it's a good thing. But not only, we're literally marketing division. Like right now, if something, if some type of hate crime happens right now in America,

it's going to be front page news. Front and center. The Kaepernick thing is the perfect example. I don't even know how this became a two-year argument. It's like the guy didn't want to stand up. He used to sit down on the bench. And this turned into this whole giant thing that I was like, how did we get through this? How are we there?

Now he's an icon. He's being compared to John Carlos and Tommy Smith and Muhammad Ali. It's like, what the fuck is going on? As he should. You know what I mean? I love Cap. Cap is a good friend of mine. But that's another argument I refuse to have anymore.

Because how many times do I have to tell you? Colin Kaepernick sat down with an actual veteran and asked the veteran what is the most respectful way for him to protest. And didn't make a big deal of it. No, the veteran told him he should take a knee. A veteran. And America pisses me off with that shit because America don't give a fuck about veterans. If America cared about veterans, there'd be no homeless veterans whatsoever. We care about dogs more

than you care about veterans. At least dogs got a place to stay. Gotta rescue dogs. You know what I'm saying? I have three dogs, by the way. But yeah, we care about emotional support dogs on airplanes.

If you fought for this country, you should never have to pay taxes ever again. You should get free health insurance for the rest of your life. You should get free room and board for the rest of your life. And you should get a stipend every month.

Right. And they should be doing things to help them with their mental health and just making sure they're good. Like, it pisses me off to see people with Trump stickers who probably hate Colin Kaepernick just drive by a veteran

when they're on the side of the road trying to get some change. Right. Like, how much do you really give a fuck about this country? You screaming about not being patriotic, but you're just going to drive by this person that went to fight for us? Get the fuck out of here, man. America don't give a shit about veterans country you screaming about not being patriotic but you're just going to drive by this person that went to fight for us get the fuck out of here man america don't give a shit

about veterans like they say they do but when they're the stray dogs in the olympics in russia oh they're flying out there to get the dogs a hundred percent god i've got a whole place this is the decade of what the fuck i just don't understand anything anymore but that's the point you're not supposed to and we got to stop trying to understand it, Bill. I'm serious. And the Bible has said, sometimes you can't lean on your own understanding. I'm not leaning on my own understanding anymore. I know what I know, and I'm willing to learn things that I don't know. And that's where it stops. I don't want to talk about Kanye for more than 90 seconds. So give me 90 seconds on Kanye, and then we're moving on. I think Kanye is-

Your friend, Van Lathan, and I talked about him for a half hour two weeks ago, and I don't have any more left in the tank. Van acts like he doesn't like to talk about Kanye. That's one of his favorite subjects. Well, yeah, you're pulling his arm. No, he's not pulling his arm. Fine, I'll do 30 minutes on Kanye. Van loves talking about Kanye.

Yeah, I know he does. That was a good moment for him, though. It was. That was a great moment. That's the moment that helped elevate. Talented guy got put in the spotlight for the right reason. Absolutely. We just got to get Van out of TMZ.

That's all. I'm not feuding with TMZ. I'm just saying. An incredible amount of respect for the wonderful people at TMZ. I got love for TMZ too, but I'm just saying. Harvey Levitt's a genius. Van is, I got love for TMZ, but Van is a little bit more elevated than that. I think so anyway. You know what I mean?

Like that's. You know, I agree. How did we brought him over here? And we just got eight hours of content out of him. He's amazing. We worked him. We just gave him a cup of coffee and that was it. That's it.

Let him roam. You should get it. You should make him drink and smoke some weed. That's my guy. We vacation together. Like Van and his beautiful fiance, we vacation together. You should make him drink and smoke some weed. That's my guy. We vacation together. Like, man, his beautiful fiance, we vacation together. You know what I'm saying? So we're going on vacation again for New Year's.

90 seconds on Kanye. Oh. When was the last time he was on your show? I interviewed him earlier this year in Calabasas, but he hasn't been on my show in a few years. But, I mean, my thing with Kanye is this. I think that we all need to really be a little bit more empathetic to Kanye West. And this is what I mean when I say that. That's how I feel. That's what I mean. The guy clearly is going through some type of mental health issue. And

he said that he was bipolar. And then he said he wasn't bipolar. It was just sleep deprivation. So he's not on his medication anymore. But as you can see, when he's not on his medication, when he's openly bragging about not being on his medication, that's when his behavior is the most erratic. And I think that one of the reasons he fell back and said that he suffers from sleep deprivation and not bipolar is because everybody was clowning him and everybody was calling him crazy. But I don't think he realizes we weren't calling you crazy because of your mental illness we were calling you crazy because of this obsession you have with donald donald trump so i think that's what's made him kind of like backtrack on the whole oh i don't have mental illness thing so i just think that if we're really trying to eradicate these stigmas about mental health in america we got to show a little bit more empathy with guys like that and stop fucking taking his word as gospel.

I don't give a fuck about what Kanye West thinks about politics. I started to say Ja Rule because I'm thinking about the Dave Chappelle joke. When Dave Chappelle is like, who gives a fuck what Ja Rule thinks at a time like this? I don't care if Kanye West is making Brexit t-shirts. I don't care if Kanye West is running around with Candace Owens. That means nothing to me. You know why it doesn't mean nothing to me? Because those two chose their side.

And that's fine. This is America. You can pick your side. All I'm going to do is go out here, encourage people to vote, tell people what the interest is I think that they should be voting for, and encourage people to vote for who I want them to vote for. That's it. They're doing exactly what we should be doing.

And I can't focus my energy on what they got going on over there. God bless them. I wish them the best. And we got to stop acting energy on what they got going on over there. Like, God bless them. I wish them the best. And we got to stop acting like Kanye did something wrong. That's the other thing. Kanye didn't do anything wrong. He's just doing something

we don't agree with. Him wearing the MAGA hat is not wrong. It's just something we don't agree with. But deconstruct that, though. He's clearly going through a lot of stuff. Yes. SNL has him on anyway. Exploiting him. Then he acts crazy and then snl immediately

distances himself from them and makes fun of them that's why it's like you knew what you're getting into my whole thing is when somebody starts bragging about how they're off their meds that's usually a bad sign how about put a period on the end of that sentence there's nothing else to talk to him like harvey pissed me off with that shit when i saw him do the interview with harvey levin and he was like i'm not on my meds Harvey didn't say shit like that right there should have been the end of the conversation

like I know if Van had did that interview Van would have challenged Kanye in that moment like brother like why are we even having this conversation

why are you even here off your meds like that's the only thing we should be talking to Kanye about like that's why I wanted to have the mental health conversation with him

but I just knew that it was just going to be such a distraction. We were supposed to do the New York Times-Times talk, and I canceled it. And the reason I canceled it, because after the White House visit, when he said that he had sleep deprivation and not bipolar, I felt like I was exploiting him. And I'm not going to be a part of that. You know what I'm saying? That's still a black man at the end of the day. And Kanye West is still somebody who has contributed so much to the culture. And and clearly we're watching him and something is not right i don't give a fuck about the music i love the sneakers though very comfortable for 40 but you make a good point about why do you care about his opinion on politics yeah like what what made kanye west successful it was about his experience

as a black guy in chicago yes it was about his experience with women rocky up and down whatever and then his experience with fame yes and the backlash to fame and those were what all of his songs were about that's it so for for us to expect him to like all right now here are my here are my lucid thoughts on donald trump and where the country's going it's like that was never happening and and the shit that bothers me too is like we act like um we we really treat donald trump like he's the president and he is the president don't get me wrong he's the president in terms of this is the 45th president of the united states of america he's not the leader of america he used to be the executive producer of celebrity apprentice like you got to put this shit in perspective like if flavor flay was the run for president

yeah and when are we supposed to stop treating flavor flave like he was he's flavor flave he's still fucking flavor flave and it's the same thing with donald trump he's still the executive producer of celebrity apprentice that's why i don't mind when kim or even kanye go talk to him because i feel like celebrity knows how to speak to celebrity right politicians don't know how to speak to celebrity. Right. Politicians don't know how to speak to Donald Trump. Donald Trump don't even understand that language. That shit goes over his fucking toupee. Yeah.

Kim and Kanye at least know how to talk to him. So all Kim and Kanye need to do is be armed with the right messaging to go deliver these messages. And maybe, just maybe, some things can change. I don't fucking know. Why did Kim Kardashian talk to Donald Trump? I never understood that. Well, I mean, she got somebody free. She got talk to Donald Trump? I never understood that.

Well, I mean, she got somebody free. She got Alice Marie Johnson out of prison. So that was her reason? Yeah. And now she's working on it again. You know, she's, I guess she's big on prison reform now. And listen, you can't like point the finger. I know it's easy to look at her past and be like, oh, she had a sex tape and she's always half naked and whatever else.

Why can't she care about prison reform and still like to be half naked on instagram aren't we in the world of fucking slashes like everybody likes multitaskers nowadays you gotta be a radio personality tv personality author you know executive producer you gotta have all these different slashes why can't she be instagram model prison reform activist executive producer of a television show mom like why can't she be all of those things at once like i don't see the problem with celebrity multitasker celebrity multitasker and we live in a world especially not the world america is driven by fucking celebrity that's why we have donald trump in the white house right now america loves celebrities so much that we elected one as our

45th president of the united states of america have y'all seen idiocracy you love movies yeah we're in the era of idiocracy right now social media has a big part of it too 100 because kim kardashian can't happen 15 years ago no she can't happen 12 years ago no no she can't happen no it's definitely have a reality show. But like Paris Hilton missed her calling by like five years. Paris Hilton in 2005. If that had just happened in 2012, she's probably Kim Kardashian. I met Kim in 2007. You said, I enjoyed the tape.

No, I don't think the tape wasn't out yet. I used to be Wendy Williams' co-host at WBLS. And Wendy, I mean, Kim used to come to Wendy's show and hang out with Wendy's then booker named Nicole Spence. Yeah. And her and Courtney would sit in the office and just kick it. And they was trying to get Wendy to do an interview with them. At the time, she was doing Paris Hilton's closets. Yeah. But Kim used to talk about being in the position she's in right now. Yeah.

She was talking about following Paris' blueprint. Yeah. She used to talk about being in the position she's in right now. Yeah. She was talking about following Paris' blueprint. She studied for Paris. Yeah. She used to talk about following Paris' blueprint. The pupil became the teacher. Yes. And they were beautiful back then, though. I still think she's great looking.

Oh, yeah. I remember her walking into the office. She's definitely, absolutely one of the most stunning celebrities I've ever seen. Because, first of all, she's shorter than you think. Yes. She's like 5'3". Yep. And, you know,

she's just built like nobody else. And you got to respect, you do have to respect the Kardashians. An uncommon physique. Not, no, stop it, Bill. For somebody that famous. No, that's a surgically enhanced physique. Oh, come on.

Don't ruin this for me. That has been sculpted, that has been sculpted to look like every beautiful black woman from Compton. Okay. I can, I can show you 20 women built like Kim Kardashian right now. What other,

what other people do you want to ruin for me? I'm just saying, I can show you 20 other women that are built like Kim Kardashian. Like, like 20. You probably show me 2000. You ever seen Trina? You show me 2000. You ever showed Trina? You showed me 2000.

You ever showed him Trina, Tommy, the rapper. What do you think? Tommy's my conduit to good. Like a black woman. Okay. Serena.

Look at Serena's body. Well, Serena's. I don't like having this conversation in the middle of the times up there. Bill, what are you talking about? Oh, there you go.

Boom. That's Trina. Okay. So you're saying Kim's not in not an original prototype um no

let's take a break talk about FanDuel football season is underway I do not have a lot of regrets about my season long fantasy teams I'm 7-1 in my fantasy league

Cousin Sal is 0-8 it's delicious I just love looking at the standings you know what else I love looking at FanDuel you spend all off season researching and getting 0-8. It's delicious. I just love looking at the standings. You know what else I love looking at? Fandle. You spend all offseason researching and getting excited for the draft, then you're kind of stuck for your team in real fantasy. Well, in daily fantasy, you get to pick a new team every

week. At Fandle, you get the excitement of researching and building your team regardless of the outcome week after week. It's never been more fun or easy to play. I've been playing in their Gridiron Pick'em Contest. It's a free contest. All you need to do is pick winners. No spreads, 10K split amongst the top pickers. I also like the old single entry contests. Now that the World Series is over, I can actually start focusing on football again. Thank you, Red Sox, by the way. I really enjoyed my fourth World Series of the century. I appreciate it. Trust me, I've tried other DFS sites before. And if you're not a fantasy expert, FanDuel, clearly the place to play. New users get a $5 bonus

when they make the first deposit. Come play with me at fanduel.com slash BS. And by the way, if you like fantasy, check out Danacy Football on the Ringer NFL Show. It is our fantasy podcast that gives you all the advice you need. Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, the Danys. That's why we call it Danny C Football.

It is on Tuesdays. And then also as part of our big Friday extravaganza Ringer NFL show podcast, Lombardi and Tate doing GM Street. And then the Danny C Football guys. That is all on Fridays on the Ringer NFL show podcast. Back to Charlamagne. Have you had Serena? No, I love Serena too, man too that's one of my dream interviews you

never got serena she doesn't do stuff she's smart she doesn't have to right she doesn't need to do an hour with people where do we rank serena for all-time great athletes i'm gonna be honest with you i don't fuck with tennis so i mean but i respect her i think the three greatest American athletes, female of the last 25 years are her, Abby Wambach, Diana Taurasi. Really? Yeah. Those are my three.

All of them were like completely unique prototypes for whatever they were. Like Abby Wambach. So she was the striker on the woman's, on the woman's US team. I have no idea who that is. Six feet tall. Okay. Just played like, just fearless. Was up in the air, had all these headers. She was just

one of a kind. Taurasi is the best women's basketball player ever. I know Taurasi. Serena's like so much better than any other women's tennis player ever. It would be like if LeBron was the best player ever, but the second best player ever was like Paul George.

Where do we rank them with all time just athletes period though? I feel like Serena's way up there. Yeah. Serena's way up there. Where do we rank the Kardashians as greatest dynasty ever? Before the Bulls, after the Patriots. Where are they? Let me think about this.

So how many years now? It's going on a decade. It's going on a decade? Yes. so it's got to look at like the 90s bulls with jordan like that kind of a run like listen and and and you know the thing about the kardashians that people don't pay attention to they move social conversations not just pop culture social think about all the different conversations they've introduced you got the interracial relationships between yeah all of them and all the rappers and athletes. A lot of shaming conversations. Yeah, a lot of shaming conversations. The plastic surgery.

You have the transgender, transsexual conversation. You have the crackhead conversation with Lamar Odom. You have fat shaming with Rob. You have so many different conversations that have revolved around the Kardashian-Jenner's. Like they've introduced social conversations to people. They also do a good job of firing back at people who come at them in ways. Like they're almost like,

they're like the Corleone family. What do they have to lose? It's like, oh, you took a drive-by shooting at me? We just murdered your bodyguard outside their hotel. What do they have to lose? What do the Kardashian-Jenners have to lose at this point? Like the world literally- They're the Corleones.

The world literally revolves around them. Like what do they have to lose by clapping back at people? It is interesting that we don't have one success story of a boyfriend or husband that moved into their whole world. There's not like, wow, but yeah, there's that. Well, Jim, Jim's been married to so-and-so forever and he's fine. Chris Humphries is doing great. He got out of there, he fled from there.

Well, Travis, we don't know how that's going to end. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not buying Travis stock. Yeah, yeah, Travis. Yeah, I'm not buying Travis stock. I'm not going to buy no Travis stock. Chris Humphries was like, get out. But Chris is no Travis Stock. Chris Humphries was like, get out. But Chris is doing great now.

Chris Humphries had like a little row. He came and got him. Yes. Chris owns like a bunch of what now? I saw something, some franchise. Chris Humphries. He's still playing. I just read this.

He made his hundred million. Yeah, but I just saw this the other day. I want to say it's five guys. Oh, really? He owns a bunch of five guys, I think, if I'm not mistaken. I literally just read this article, and I said to myself, oh, like, he made it. When was the last time you interviewed Kim? Chris Humphries, like, 10 years ago.

Oh, so she doesn't need to come on Breakfast Club. No. I used to interview Kim all the time. I used to interview Kim, like, because we used to be cool. Hold on. Crispin Green? That's what it is? No, I don't know what the fuck that is.

Whatever. He owns a bunch of those. Crispin Green? I thought it was Five Guys. I see something about Five Guys too. It is Five Guys, right? Oh, this is from 2011. I love Five Guys.

I used to interview Kim all the time. Five Guys just made me hungry. You like Five Guys like that? I do like Five Guys. Everyone out here is In-N-Out. I used to like In-N-Out. Not anymore. I'm drifting toward Five Guys. hungry you like five guys i do like five guys everyone out here is in and out i like i used to like in and out not anymore i'm five guys yeah in and out is just a little bit overrated now yeah we used to love it and i like i used to land and go right to in and out too much well now i mean

the airport now they have like the the shake shacks and all that stuff and jay all the different airports they actually have good food i might do that shit tonight though just go to in and out before we leave just to see if it's still as trash as I think it is. Have you been in the Apple Pan? What the fuck is that? That's probably the best burger in LA right now.

The Apple Pan? Apple Pan. Is it like some fancy shit? No. No, it's like a sit-down 40-seat like

horseshoe type place where you sit down. The people behind the counter are just super unfriendly. You just have to tell them what they want they don't talk to you you have to pay in cash no credit cards because it's a fantastic burger

I'm a stern believer in like manners will take you where money won't I like nice people you know what I'm saying like I want to see people treat the custodian the same way they treat the CEO like so if you are an asshole I'm going to give you my money that's not what they're about they're about the food way they treat the CEO. So if you are an asshole, I'm going to give you my money.

That's not what they're about. They're about the food's so good, we're just here to give you the food. I don't like that. We don't want to interact with you. Is the food, is that good? It's pretty good. I like Chick-fil-A employees. Best employees on the motherfucking planet.

They're angels sent from the heaven above. Okay? They will fucking change your flat tire if you got a flat tire in the parking lot of fucking chick-fil-a that's how good chick-fil-a employees are my darkest moment of this entire decade was when the chick-fil-a backlash happened when the when the guy had the the guy who owned it had the bad comments about gay people and people were like fuck it we're not going to chick-fil-a anymore who was those people and i waited like four months and then i put a hat on and pulled it down real low

and I had a sweatshirt on and I snuck in and had a Chick-fil-A because I couldn't, I was like jonesing. Four months without Chick-fil-A is just a long time. I had to reconcile.

I was like, I'm consuming so many terrible, you know, so many terrible people in my life that I'm consuming products from them. Like,

I can't draw the line at Chick-fil-A. Yeah, I made a little stand when that happened. Yeah, I put in my four months protest. I had to stop going on Sunday. I never the line at Chick-fil-A. Yeah, I made a little stand when that happened. Yeah, I put in my four months protest. I just stopped going on Sunday.

I never would eat at Chick-fil-A on Sunday during that whole time. I refuse to. But it's funny when people get pious about certain things, but then you know, there's certain companies that are running slave shops and in foreign countries and paying people one cent an hour.

That's the weird shit about Nike, right? It's like a couple months ago, and I'm glad we got off Nike's dick, but I was happy when Nike did the deal with Colin Kaepernick just because I feel like whenever somebody makes the type of moves Colin made, it's good when you see corporate America be like, we don't give a shit.

We're going to sign him because we know it's an audience that fucks with him. But we were wilding. We were acting like the Nike logo was know it's an audience that fucks with him. By the way. We were wilding. We were acting like the Nike logo was the new Black Power Fist. You know what I'm saying? I thought that was brilliant by them. And also brilliant with their athletes.

That was the part I think people missed. What do you mean? I think their athletes really appreciate it. And the athletes that weren't with Nike were like, oh, shit. I need to be over there. They stuck up with Kaepernick. I like those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. athletes that weren't with nike were like oh shit i need to be over there they stuck up with kaepernick i like those guys yeah yeah i just didn't i just didn't like when i jennifer lewis

would come to the award show in full nike attire and she's like i'm making a statement and i love jennifer lewis like i'm making a statement i'm like no a statement would actually be a shirt with colin kaepernick's face on it i mean the nike logo is kind of safe that's a safe way to say you're you're making a statement do you think he do you think the last two years he wanted to play football i know he wants to play football you see him working out all the time that's the other way we talk about boycotting it's kind of hard to boycott the nfl when colin still wants to play in the nfl and i i correct me if i'm wrong i've never heard colin say boycott the nfl we're not watching watching the NFL so it's kind of like

it sends a mixed message if you still want to play in the league I just find it I find it hard to believe that all the shitty quarterbacks I watch every week

like last night Buffalo played the Pats and they had like their third string dude in there and he was just awful Derek Anderson I mean he's like 40

he just can't play the pass and at that point like if you're not giving a Kaepernick it makes me think like teams don't there has to be some teams that don't think like he's in shape or he's football ready or something in shape he's super in shape then this this should actually be a bigger deal that he's not playing like people should watch the Derek Anderson thing last time be like oh my god you know it is though a huge deal. I mean, it was such a huge deal that it went from Colin is kneeling because of the injustice that is happening to Brown and black people at the hands of the police to we're not watching the NFL because Colin don't have a job.

I get it. I'm saying, like, right now, every week we're watching five terrible quarterbacks. I think people are over it because Colin is doing good. If Colin wasn't doing good, meaning if he didn't have the TV show in the works that he was doing.

He could be making like $8 million a year playing football. Yeah, but he's got the TV show in the works that he was doing. What's the TV show? It's based off his younger life.

He's got the endorsement deal with Nike. Wherever he grew up. Yeah. He got the endorsement deal with Nike. He's an icon now. Colin is a martyr at this point. He's like, deal with Nike and he's an icon now like Colin is a martyr

at this point like he's like like you said you he's up there with with Muhammad Ali and John Carlos those like he's that guy forever now like that's in stone I think coming back to the NFL at this point probably just ruins the legacy unless he comes back and wins the Super Bowl for somebody now that's a story just to come back and you the Super Bowl for somebody. Now, that's a story. Just to come back and, you know, barely make the playoffs and throw a few touchdowns. That's a sports movie, right? Yeah. Somebody on a, like a Drew Brees type quarterback gets hurt.

Woo. And Colin has to come in and save it. Come on, man. Like, that's a story. But here's the thing. So what happens in the black community? I'm trying to think of a team that's like four and four

right now. Okay. Starting quarterback gets hurt. Collin goes to that team. Let's say it's the Denver Broncos. Case Keenum gets hurt. They're three and five. Collin goes there. They start winning. What happens to the black community? Are they wearing Broncos jerseys?

How far does it go? What is the impact? Of course they would. A hundred percent. So why wouldn't a team see that and want to, I mean, there's actually like real money that they could make from having him succeed on their team. That's, I think that's crazy. Nobody signed him.

That's a great question. But you know, it's so interesting, man. For some reason, people don't like to cater directly to black people for some reason. You know, I even talk about that when I, I when a lot of politicians come on The Breakfast Club, Democratic politicians always ask them, you know, when you talk about all these different rights that you're fighting for, you know, immigration rights, LGBT rights, gender rights, you know, women's rights. How come we can never specifically say African-American rights? And some of them will tell you behind the scenes like we we you know we just probably could never win if we ran a campaign like that now things may be shifting and changing now yeah but a lot of them do feel that way so that's probably the same thing with the nfl they're

like look man we can't hang our hats on colin kaepernick because cap's only gonna be around for two three more years after those three years are gone and then he's gone, then what? You know? What does our fan base that was here before Cap do? They think like a piece of their fan base is just gone because they bought in on Cap. Football is different, though. The problem is it's all old, rich, white guys who are on the team.

You know who my favorite team is? Who? The Dallas Cowboys. Jerry Jones? Jerry Jones is the master. Okay? All right? All right?

But I can't help but be a Dallas Cowboy fan. My father is one of those guys who has six-time Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys on his arm. You know when he got that tattoo? After the Cowboys won their last Super Bowl in 95. After 95, he went and got six-time Super Bowl champion. We've only won five, all right? So he was thinking ahead. Okay?

So you know how you look on Instagram and you see all of those idiots who have, like, 2020 world champions? That was my father in 1995. After the Cowboys won their last Super Bowl, he went and got six-time Super Bowl champion. And I remember saying, but they've only won five. Oh, we're going to win it again next year. And I'm like, well, what if they win it again? And they get, you know what I mean? What if it goes up to seven? I didn't understand.

I never understood that logic. It makes more sense to put the years on your arm and then add the years each time you win. Exactly. Exactly. So it's like, I'm a Dallas Cowboy fan, true and true. My father tased a Marine on 9-11

at a Jets-Cowboys game. You know what I'm saying? They changed the rules at NFL stadiums because of my father. Jesus. You know? So I'm a diehard Cowboy fan.

Even though Master Jerry Jones is the owner of the Cowboys. I can't help it. So give me your top three people to come on the show that you would love to have right now, 2018, October. Everybody always asks me that, and I really don't know. I don't think about it. Who's out there?

There's nobody I'm really like. You've talked to everybody. You're just bored. You've had every guest. I could be. I don't know. There's really nobody I really, truly want to talk to at this point. You know what's so funny?

You asked me that. And somebody asked me, I forgot where I was at. And somebody was like, who are the top three people you would want to interview dead or alive? Everybody I named was dead. It was like- Oh, dead or alive is interesting. Let's play that game. Who was dead?

It was- Which dead people? The Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Okay. Because I feel like without him him you don't get malcolm x you don't get muhammad ali you don't get the honorable minister lewis frack on you don't get this whole nation of islam like he was he kind of turned on ali though um no i'd want to i'd want you to ask him about that i feel like he turned on him i mean there's a lot of different you can ask so many scandals with that whole situation that you could him about that. I feel like he'd turn on him. I mean, there's a lot of different, you can ask so many scandals

with that whole situation that you could ask about. But I just feel like, you know, nobody ever talks about him. They always talk about his pupils and his teachings literally changed millions of people across the country. I'd love to talk to Martin Luther King Jr.

and just ask him, was it worth it? You know what I mean? I feel like he accomplished something so great. And like, if you look at, they didn't like Martin when he was alive. Yeah.

They called him an Uncle Tom. They called him a coon. They was like, why are you talking to these people, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson? But he actually got

legislation changed. Civil Rights Act of 1964, Martin Luther King Jr. And then the third person would definitely be Tupac. And the reason it would be Tupac is because like, I wasn't a big fan of Tupac's music growing up, but Tupac would be, I would like to interview older Tupac about his younger self. Like 96 Tupac?

No, I want to interview 40 something year old Tupac if he was alive now. He can do it. He is alive. He's dead. Tupac. That's what I just saw on the internet. It had to be true. He's long gone.

Ship Night Sun said he was was alive he's trolling but it'll just be interesting to see what he feels about his younger self because his younger self influenced a generation of people to be thugs and he also influenced a generation of people to be conscious as well but the thug life ultimately won out in the end because he ended up getting killed. So I would love to have a conversation about his younger self and what would he tell himself to change? Tupac launched the-

Tupac. I said Tupac. Tupac was a wrestler. I said Tupac. That was six pack. I said Tupac. I just said something on my throat. Okay.

Tupac launched- A podcast? No. He was the first anti-hero, him and Mike Tyson. And you go through when it goes into the 2000s and then we get Tony Soprano and we got Don Draper and the Breaking Bad guy

and then Chris Brown and all these people. It's like part of the appeal to them was that they were dangerous and that they weren't playing by thing. Nobody loved Chris Brown like they loved Tupac and Mike Tyson well Tupac was the first guy

though that it was it was a conflict to like him and you had to be like well how do I feel about this he said this but I know his heart's

in the right place because he did this yeah and you had to battle all these different things yeah it's hard because you decided whether to like him

I never liked his music though and I already had really no I already had picked his side. No, and I already picked his side because I was like an East Coast guy. I loved Biggie. I loved Mobb Deep. So I never really like

got in the pocket. I was like, who is this guy on this Hit Em Up record saying he's fucking people's wives and he's 4-4 make sure all your kids don't grow. That's the hardest line

on the song. My 4-4 make sure all your kids don't grow. That is a very menacing line to tell somebody i mean it is a song that starts out that's why i fucked your bitch that's light though i'd rather you fuck my girl than make sure my kids don't grow appetizer oh yeah that was just the start he's like hey just i'm gonna set the tone here just the mind game but that and the fact that he did that song over a beat that could be played in the club like that is what really infuriates you like you're in the club having a good time drinking smoking your weed popping

bottles and then that shit comes on and the whole club just goes crazy and they gotta sing along because it's the melody first off fuck your bitch in the clique you claim yo you won't beat the dj up and try to fight everybody in the fucking club but he would have been a great podcast i love this idea of people come from the afterlife just for an hour and a half to talk to us and then they leave. You should bring in some mediums and channel them. That'd be a great one. Yeah. Bring in some mediums and channel them.

I'm trying to think who else I'd want to talk to. He's definitely way up there. It's amazing none of us ever say Jesus. You know what I'm saying? That'd be an intimidating podcast. I would much rather talk to Tupac than Jesus. No disrespect, you know,

but I'm just saying I would much rather. I saw on Twitter, somebody, there was a screenshot and it was very popular a couple of days ago. Somebody said, they got an Uber, you know,

you get your notification when your Uber has arrived or when your Uber's coming. It was like, Christ, your Uber driver will be there in two minutes. And then the next one was like, Christ has arrived or when your uber's coming it was like christ your uber driver will be there in two minutes and then the next one was like christ has arrived and it was the guys the uber driver's name somehow was christ if jesus came back right now nobody would believe it everybody would start tweeting about it and they'd start clowning jesus immediately like they would immediately like yo

his shoes is trash look Look at his hair. You know what I'm saying? Like who is this Christ dude talking about he's coming back? We ain't going nowhere. Hashtag rapture. Like they would kill Jesus if he was to come back right now.

That would be... 100%. That I feel like would trend on Twitter. Listen, I got a vision though. I always feel like the Wu-Tang Clan Triumph Instrumental

is going to play. And then like you'll see like a sandal step out of the sky. And I would love to see how social media would react if Jesus, in fact, really did come back. But nobody respects Jesus, though. Listen, I'm a God-fearing man. I would say a lot of people respect him. He headlines zero holidays.

He doesn't headline Easter. On Easter, it's a fucking bunny that lays eggs. That is the main attraction for this man who came back from the dead. But it's a bunny that lays eggs. Bunnies don't even lay eggs. Christmas, Santa Claus. Frosty the Snowman. All the fucking reindeers the grinch all of them

headline over jesus christ himself i would i'm gonna counter this one i would say the real symbol that somebody has achieved something is if they have little spin-off characters in their whole world what do you mean well it's like jay-z one of the great musicians ever but then also launched all these other careers. None of those people outside Jay-Z, though. But that's the thing. Kanye might be the only. You're saying that Santa Claus, you think, has transcended Christ?

50 years ago. What are you talking about, Bill? 50 years ago. I think Christ is still bigger. So why do your kids write letters to Santa Claus and not Christ? People have devoted their life to him.

There's no Jesus decoration. There's born agains. No, there's no Jesus. There's no born again Santa Claus, people. Your kids are not excited on December 24th because Jesus is coming

down the chimney. They're not. We have done a terrible... Jesus needs a rebrand. If we're being totally honest, Jesus needs a rebrand. We have not marketed Jesus the right way. Santa Claus has way better marketing than Jesus Christ. Well, you have great marketing because your lady over there is wearing a shook one jacket.

Yes, she is. You got jackets made out of your book? My homeboy Noodles did that. That's why I appreciate my people because my people just do things when they don't have to do them. Like, I love when people just do things out of the goodness of their heart. What was his name? Noodles. Which is crazy because he weighs like 300 pounds.

He's fat as fuck. Why is he named Noodles? I have no idea. That is a great question that we all need to get to the bottom of. Speaking of your friends, I don't know what's happened with your boy. Is he here? Wax is out here smoking weed somewhere. You know, it's so funny you talked about that, though like yeah my book publishers hit me yesterday and he was like you know your book's doing great we would really like

some of your influencer friends to post it i'm like no not asking nobody to do that yeah you know what i mean i like for it to be organic and like people that organically posted it this was like rick ross and amy schumer which i thought was so wild i'm like wow like amy posted i'm gonna post it when we post the podcast well i appreciate that but it's like she just posted it like yo this is a great read she read and i was like wow and we're not even like right friends like that like so that was a genuine organic i read this it's good here that's the type of shit i like you know what I mean like you cause you can tell

when the post is like not it doesn't mean anything to anybody they'll post the book and just put hashtag shook one out now

so when Jesus is on Twitter and he posts about the book you want it to be meaningful I'm trying to figure out what would it take for me to really believe Jesus is back like all just seriously

what would it take for you to really believe like if somebody was like I'm Jesus yes what would it take for us to really believe Jesus is back? Like all just seriously, what would it take for you to really believe? Like if somebody was like, I'm Jesus. Yes. What would it take for us to really believe Jesus is back? Because I think that if somebody came up to you right now and said, I'm Jesus,

you would want them to be on meds immediately. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like you'd be looking to get them committed. Like you wouldn't believe somebody if they walked up to you and said, I'm Jesus. So what would it take for us to really believe Jesus is back?

Some miracles start happening. What do you call a miracle? I mean, the ones in the book that we know, right? Well, the Red Sox just won four World Series, so. Okay. You got all of these conservatives, right? Yeah. Who believe in Christ.

Yeah. What if they look at donald trump as a miracle think about it long shot executive producer celebrity apprentice you know what i'm saying the fucking like no zero education in politics whatsoever never held any political office not even student class fucking president now he's the president of the united states of america and beat probably the most qualified candidate for president of the United States of America and beat probably the most qualified candidate for president

of the United States ever in Hillary Clinton. I would say that was more- Is that not a miracle? That was more the plot of The Omen Part 3. You think? So he's the Antichrist.

I was just saying that was an actual plot in The Omen Part 3. Yeah. He grew up and he ran for office. The devil. Yeah.

That's what happened. Sam Neill played Damien, grown up Damien. But I'm just saying, you don't think how conservatives can look at that and see maybe this is their miracle? I could see it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why that religion thing is tricky, bro. That's why I think we're the, this is the first religious conversation I've had on the podcast. Once again, you pushed me, you pushed me to an uncomfortable corner.

You did it again. All right, the book is Shook One yes anxiety playing tricks on me it's out right now wherever you buy books I hate when people say that shit to me

where do I buy the book the fucking bookstore Amazon where are they Amazon like one of the nobles books a million yeah it's not hard

Google Books for sale like yeah it's not hard you know what I mean Breakfast Club has it's own YouTube channel. We do. And you're up to other stuff too, right?

Yeah. You got a TV show? What else are you doing? I got a few TV projects in the works. I'm working on something right now because like I really want to like get, I really want to normalize these conversations about mental health in our community

because I feel like everything is mental. Like everything starts with a thought, you know? Like I believe in like the law of attraction, you in the law of attraction. Your thoughts become things. I feel like when you got all of this junk in your brain, when you got these insecurities and this low self-esteem and you're just constantly second guessing yourself and you got the anxiety and all of that other stuff, it keeps you from realizing your full potential. So I really would encourage everybody to go to therapy because therapy has done wonders for me and my life has helped me to organize this messy closet

that is my brain. Because it's like you could take all of the fucking junk that's at the bottom of the closet and pack it up for goodwill, all the shit that you don't need and all the shit you want to keep, you put it in order and then you can bring new stuff in.

That's what I feel like therapy does for people. So I got a TV show coming that I hope it normalizes therapy in a big, big way. And I'm kind of like, I'm kind of laying on the cross for this one. Okay.

You know, speaking of Jesus, to keep the Jesus references going. When it gets announced, you'll understand what I mean. Like, I'm laying on the cross for this one.

You never cease to surprise me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. It was good seeing you. Bill, good seeing you too, brother. Thank you for having me. to surprise me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. It was good seeing you. Bill, good seeing you too, brother. Thank you for having me. Good luck with the book. Yes, sir.

All right. Thanks so much to Titus and Tate. Thanks to Charlemagne. Thanks to ZipCruiter. Don't forget to go to zipcruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to 99designs, a global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together. We recently used 99designs to design some new merch for the ringer.

Check it out. 99designs.com slash bill. You can also receive a free $99 upgrade on your free design contest by heading to 99designs.com slash bill. Click on the link on the landing page. That is 99designs.com slash bill. And thanks to FanDuel. Don't forget, you get the excitement of researching, building your team each week at FanDuel. Don't forget,

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There's going to be football. My picks are coming back. I am making a run starting in week nine, and I'm going to have a little contest that I'm excited about for that. So you'll have to wait until then. Enjoy the next couple of days. I feel it's within On the wayside I'm a bruised soul I never was

And I don't have To be