The Bill Simmons Podcast - Savior Sam Darnold, New-Blood QBs, and AFC East Torch Passes With Kevin Clark and Sean Fennessey | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 402)

Episode Date: August 17, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin Clark of 'The Ringer NFL Show' to discuss his recent NFL training camp visits as America gears up for the NFL regular season (3:15). Then Ringer editor-in-chief Sean Fennessey stops by to revisit the history of New York Jets quarterbacks and what Sam Darnold means to Jets fans, before running through some good, bad, and sleeper teams (42:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, brought to you by ZipRecruiter. We did not use ZipRecruiter to hire Kevin Clark. You just emailed me. I'll tell you this, though. If we had gone through ZipRecruiter, they would have found you. You know why I know that? Because their technology and tools make hiring more efficient and effective.

It's the smartest way to hire. 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. My listeners can try it for free. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash BSZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. We're also brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety

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Be careful. We have ride sharing now. Don't get behind the wheel. Drive sober or get pulled over. Those are your two options. Learn more at NHTSA.gov. Let's talk about TheRinger.com. We had a running back day.

Is today Sam Darnold Day? It's Sam Darnold Day. God, I just really lost control of the website this week. We had a Fly Eagles Fly Day and a Sam Darnold Day. This is a Sean Fantasy flex. There's a couple Jets fans over there, and they're having a great time this week. We had a Fly Eagles fly day and a Sam Arnold day. This is a Sean Fantasy flex. There's a couple Jets fans over there and they're having a great time this week. He's going to be flexing 20 interceptions and 7 TDs.

We're going to talk to him later, actually. We have that. We have the latest batch of Are We Sure NBA. This little gimmick we're doing in August because there's nothing to write about in August. Are we sure DeMarcus Cousins isn't going to ruin the Warriors?

I'm not sure, actually. Who knows? They had such good chemistry last year. You just never know. Speaking of the Warriors, my Steph Curry podcast, it dropped late Wednesday night. It was a good one. Really fun to finally have him on. We went to Oakland to talk to him.

A whole bunch of other stuff on TheRinger.com. Check it out. A whole bunch of great podcasts. Check those out. Check out The Ringer NFL Show, hosted by one of the hosts, Kevin Clark. And we launched fantasy football a couple weeks ago, which is shockingly good. Danny Heifetz is like, I think he's like 18 years old. He might be the youngest podcast host. I wouldn't doubt it.

Have they invited you on? Mays nor I are good at fantasy football we're not going to be invited onto that show it's it's they're just dropping they have this lingo already they're like well he's a qb8 right now but he could get to qb5 they developed instant chemistry yeah it's pretty good check that out it's running on wednesdays and they have a lot of good tips already i've learned a lot dany see football on the ringer nfl show clark amaze around there twice a week g GM Street. It is packed.

We're heading toward the season. We're going to talk about the season with Kevin Clark back from his big training camp trip along with Sean Fennessy, who's going to talk about the history of the Jets QBs. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, so I'm driving into work, and the Pats lost yet another first-round pick. Between injuries and NFL investigations. And trading down. And trading down.

Not a lot of production from first-round picks. This one was just a bad luck thing. Because Isaiah Wynn, offensive lineman they drafted, just busts his Achilles in the second preseason game. They lost a first-round pick with Deflategate, which was the biggest F job of this decade with football i still can't believe it the steelers just had a deflating football thing at exhibition nobody cares it was swept under the rug within eight hours nobody cares nobody ever cares about

footballs except by the time i woke up from that story it had been resolved by the league right no big deal lost 2008 lost a first round pick because the spy gate and the pats have traded down a bunch of times i don't my math is a little bit off just because i'm doing this off the top of my head but i would say over the last 11 years i'm gonna throw in lawrence maroney too because he sucked okay um just the pats getting anything out of a first round pick is a borderline miracle and and yet uh they're minus 600 to win the AFC East yet. I keep looking at this Pats season. Let's just start with them.

Not because I'm a Boston sports fan because I think it's a really interesting question. We just pencil in the Pats every year for the AFC East and for years and years it's been the best bet. You went to their training camp? I went to the Bills. You went to the Bills training camp? I went to the Bills training camp And I'm happy to report for you

The Patriots are still going to win the AFC East Okay good Because I look at this and I go one of these years They're going to go 6-10 it's going to happen This is the rule of the NFL But look at the other AFC East team I don't think you can tell the story of the Patriots dynasty Without telling the rest of the AFC East story

It's a hand in hand thing. That is the bills have just been in general completely irrelevant. The Dolphins have had little specks of relevance, but nothing really sustainable. I mean, again, if they had gotten Drew Brees and Nick Saban and those two team up, it's a completely different story over the past decade.

It's the biggest one for the last 12 years. I mean, we hear this. There are people on the league all the time who say the biggest one for the last 12 years i mean we hear this there are people on the league all the time who say the number one thing with the pitches dynasty is belichick number two or one b whatever you want to do is brady number three is chan gailey and buddy nicks yeah todd bowles and all the people around who have conspired to not it's like the atlanta braves in the in the right in the nl east the braves they were NL East. Right. In the NL East, the Braves. They were helped along in that division streak by the fact that just the Phillies

and the Marlins and all those teams never put together a sustainable run. I'm conceding all of this. By the way, just before I keep going on this, the Jets fans, they like to play the woes us card. They've had a couple of nice runs in there. The Parcells one was really nice.

And two straight AFC champions. The Rex Ryan run was really nice. It's not, like,'s not like to me comparing them to the bills it's no contest the bills have never had any nice runs the bills the highlight of their their entire 21st century was winning that week 17 game that got them into the playoffs and then they summarily lost and scored three points yeah jets have actually had they beat new england in foxborough in a playoff game like they've made afc championship games like it's not a catastrophe if you're jets fans so settle down jets fans yeah i know i i i agree with that i mean the bills are definitely the lowest rung of afc

the bills are like yeah the bills lost four straight superbowls they lost four straight superbowls they they lost the music city miracle and nothing good has happened for them this entire century and jalen ramsey started his quarterback rant on josh allen it was his first choice he's like i'll have a little cup of josh out but with all this said every year we see two two teams that everybody pencils in oh they'll may oh so here who your 12 playoff teams i have have these guys, these guys. And then something happens. And this was my entire case to go against

the Raiders last year. I was like, why are we putting the Raiders in the AFC West? Are we sure? And my fear with the Pats, Brady's 41. There's no backup QB. Haven't loved their drafts the last couple years. Their defense looked abysmal last year. I know it's a little better this year but like the middle linebacker is a fifth round

fifth round pick right now that they're all excited about but we have no idea what he's gonna be like a pass coverage one of these years they're gonna suck so why can't it be this year it can be this year i mean it's exactly what you said i'm looking at the first round picks here the last really relevant depending on how you view maybe malcolm brown i don't know donta hightower and chandler jones are 2012 they shipped chandler jones was great they traded up for chandler jones yeah and it was a good pick yeah solders gone devin mccourty was 2010 and then before that all those guys are mostly gone those are four good players so they got four good starters yeah they did i mean the the law of the NFL is every year with your first-round pick,

you're getting a guaranteed starter. And the Pats are somehow batting probably 40% for the last 12 years, and it hasn't mattered at all. They've always been able to sneak around. Isn't the little theory about Belichick in the draft that he listens too much to these college coaches who just sort of give him like the Urban Meyers and the Nick Sabans and this I always heard this and I don't know obviously there's so many there's more weird rumors that come out of New England

than any other team yeah the theory I always heard is like the scouts say hey I like this guy this guy this guy and then kind of late in the draft process Belichick says oh well I just talked to this coach and he says this guy's good. And the Scots are like, what? Nick Saban really likes this running back. Yeah, I think that's probably true. So if you had to pick, let's play this out. Okay. Brady, knock on wood, please pray God this doesn't happen.

Brady gets hurt. Just a season from hell for the Pats, they go seven and nine or eight and eight. Okay. Who, if you had to bet on one of the other three teams to sneak out of nine and seven ten and six and steal the afc's who would you pick all right it would be the miami dolphins only because first of all they did it they made the playoffs two years ago ryan tannell is healthy again they have a backup quarterback competition right now are you

familiar with the backup quarterback competition i mean it's incredible brock osweiler and bryce petty are currently on the depth chart in miami and it's amazing the dolphins cut their best player for almost no reason in dominican sioux uh i got some tweets the other day some chemistry stuff with him though of course yeah but i mean i think the rams the rams are like in work uh drake they're running back is maybe their best player i don't know i mean we we played this game the other day last six seven weeks he's good we played this game the other day with danny ke fantasy the last six, seven weeks. He's good. We played this game the other day with Danny Kelly and Ryan O'Hanlon. I think that Danny was throwing out maybe Cameron Wake

as their most talented player, which is not true. But the fact that we're throwing that out is kind of weird. I mean, I just think that they have a couple of guys who if they hit, that can be a 9-10 win team. And if it was a weak AFC East without a good Patriots team, that's the type of team they can sneak in. The Bills, they're just sort of in stage one or two of a weird retooling. I think they might go with Josh Allen sooner rather than later.

And then the Jets, I mean, who the hell knows? I don't think their offensive line is good enough. We see this every year. And every year it is an easy schedule. It's a couple sneaky wins early and some momentum. And all of a sudden we're looking around going, whoa, how'd this happen? And it's going to happen in the Pats.

I don't think it'll be this year, but Tom Brady's 41. The only team that has won the AFC East side from the Patriots since 2002 is the team that put their running back at quarterback for like half the season. So just think about it that way, Bill. That's not going to happen again. So the Pats are still 6-1, Dolphins 9-1, Jets 11-1, Bills 12-1. I like Adam Gase more than the rest of those guys.

So that's part of the case with the Dolphins, right? They made the playoffs two years ago. Adam Gase is a good coach. They clearly had chemistry issues and got rid of some guys. Although, watching the Browns hard knocks. Jarvis Landry. Just him blessing everybody. I can understand why they had to trade him finally.

It's like, this guy's a lunatic. I wrote a profile of Jarvis Landry. Bless him, bless him, bless him, bless him. Two years ago, I wrote a profile of Jarvis Landry, which he told me he wears a headband because he envisions himself on the field as Rambo. As John Rambo. I remember that. And I either that's a massive red

flag or somebody you want on your team. There's no in between on that one. It is one of those things that you could see when they're watching whatever the first like inner squad scrimmage and he's just getting open and catching everything and all the guys are just turning around at each other go, oh god oh my jesus no they were turning around a lot of those they were turning around to see greg williams and todd haley literally punching each other in the

face the entire practice that's what they were looking at who's the biggest loser of hard knocks right now greg williams todd haley or hugh jackson if you had to power rank through two episodes it's probably hugh it's probably hugh I think Todd Haley is kind of winning. I kind of like Todd Haley. Let's be clear. All three of those guys are now completely unemployable. Greg Williams certainly is. Greg Williams seems like a roadhouse villain or something. I like Todd Haley.

I think he's a good offensive coordinator. And I think he's a good hard knocks presence. Hugh Jackson was sad his mom died in the first episode and it kind of obscured a couple of the worst moments i've ever seen from a coach on that show like when he did that whole this is my this is my show when you guys have your own team you can make the calls but right now this is my team when you're in this seat you'll understand like he he's basically flexing with the people that he's relying on to succeed day in and day out there's no way immediately after that meeting they didn't

start to stage a coup there's no question immediately just starting to undermine him as soon as the meeting was over i mean obviously i'm running a company right now that has 95 people you have an inner circle you want that inner circle to like you and feel somewhat empowered. You can't have a meeting with them and go, listen, I hear what you're saying, but I don't care. When you're in this seat, you'll understand this is my show. It's like, what is happening?

He just seems like a buffoon and he wasn't great in episode two either. He just kind of wanders around and seems crazy. Put it this way. He went one in 31 in two years. Yeah. And it made sense after the first two Hard Knocks episodes. So I think the second part of that is he went one in 31 in two years and he somehow looks worse now. Yeah.

It was just you combine the one in 31 with that. And it's like, oh, okay. I can see how he's a good qb coach like he was clearly like he's connecting with ty rod and uh and baker baker i'd like but but i know this happens every year with hard knocks but watching both of those guys i was like oh the browns yep maybe at some point so their odds afc north they're 101, which has to be the lowest the Browns have been in some time. It's just a weird division. AFC North.

Steelers minus 275. Ravens plus 450. Bengals 10-1. Browns 10-1. Not a fan of that division. The Steelers are weird. I mean, I feel like at some point it becomes a big deal that Le'Veon Belich doesn't do training camp anymore.

I understand he's trying to save his body and all that but if he really does show up on september 1st how is that not a big deal well what about the fact that they know he's not going to be in the team next year and they can just run him to the ground and he's conscious of that right probably has people in his life like hey man you're 38 carries and so in a week five blowout the all-time example of that is demarco murray who, by the way, just retired over the season. Yeah, at age 28. At age 28. And the Cowboys in 2014 were like,

yeah, we're not going to bring DeMarco Murray back. And they ran him. He's the last. You're familiar with the rule of 370, which basically if you run the ball 370 times. It's one of the dumbest, most arbitrary, but incredibly awesome rules. It actually is really effective.

He's like the only guy in the last decade who surpasses the rule of 370. Is that true? Yeah. And it doesn't happen anymore. It does not happen anymore. Todd Gurley's never run the ball 300 times in a season and probably never will. There's no reason to. But the Dallas Cowboys looked at it and said, for us, it's better to just tank DeMarco

Murray's career. They made the playoffs that year. That was the Deryant goes into green bay and and almost wins the playoff game for them but but we get the catch rule there um and and they literally rode him to that okay uh murray so the steelers might be thinking the same thing i think that's the most interesting thing and so is there internal friction in week eight if he's touching the ball 35 times every week i don't know did. Did you go to, you went to Steelers, right? I did. Roethlisberger is another one who,

we have all these quarterbacks and all of a sudden it's going to be over. It's like with the Peyton Manning thing a few years ago when he had the resurgence of Denver and you just keep, oh, well, Denver's going to be good again. And then one year Peyton Manning couldn't throw the football anymore. He had four neck surgeries and he had four neck surgeries and uh and they

were cracking down on his wife shipments and and that was it but these guys once you get past 35 you just don't know rothlisberger i think you feel this way too he'll be the first to go it just doesn't know when that doesn't seem like he's like he's going to age in his forties. He took a lot of hits, man. I, yeah. And the way he plays, it just doesn't age.

Well, it just doesn't age. Well. And so I think the one thing for the one thing to be said for that generation of quarterbacks, obviously they're aging out of relevance. At some point they'll all fall off a cliff. And I'm really intrigued to see how that goes.

I think the new rules this year, the middle of the field is going to be so wide open because of the helmet rule and all that stuff that there's going to be an offensive explosion. It might actually tack on a year or two to those guys' relevance because I think it'll help a lot of the crappy quarterbacks, but it'll really help an accurate thrower over the middle of the field. No one, the number one thing I heard in my training camp tour is that no one understands this new helmet rule. And so one of the things that every safety in the league or every linebacker in the league is going to be half a step slow over the middle. And so you can just hit those crossing routes over and over again. We're going to see an offensive explosion

like I don't think many people see coming. That was why I wanted the Pats to trade for Jarvis Landry. He's just sitting there. Yeah. They had to sign a huge extension. The Browns Well Belichick found out He wasn't white

And he didn't want him So he doesn't fit In our plan this year Seven Seven white receivers I kid Bill Belichick I kid out of love Did you see

Steven Gaskowski Catch the pass On the sideline last night No he's our Second best receiver Yeah no I was Belichick sees a white guy

Catch a pass All of a sudden He's like what Can we run some plays with him I texted my buddy Hench yesterday who's already freaking out about the Pat season I was like

third to nine week one yeah give me two receivers you trust he's like Chris Hogan and no one I think Hogan's gonna have a big year

Chris Hogan's gonna have a huge year the NAC football last week my new favorite podcast they were talking Chris Hogan was wide receiver 28 heading into uh the season they were like he's definitely wide receiver nine but uh up but yeah he actually was having an awesome season last year before he got hurt you have to remember brady essentially invented along with manning the craft of throwing over the middle of the field. I thought you were going to say he invented Chris Hogan.

He sort of did. He might have also invented Chris Hogan. He sort of did. But he invented throwing over the middle of the field. That's the cheat code of modern NFL play. Yeah.

And he's going to understand every single trend that has happened over the past 10 years offensively, Brady's been half a season ahead on. I was also going to say

also favorable to Tom Brady because the biggest thing that happened in the last 12 years was basically turning in touch football for QBs. And then nobody had their legs anymore and any of that stuff. And that's why they're able to play their 40. I don't think Ben Roethlisberger is going to be able to play to his 40.

How do you view Rodgers? I think Breeze could. I think Rodgers, however long he wants. I just see him getting bored. I could see him one summer just being like, I want to join the PGA Tour. I've decided to retire. Like when Phil Mickelson tried to make the Detroit Tigers.

Did that happen? Yeah. It's a lost chapter. As a fat, long reliever? He topped out at like 80 miles per hour, and they said no. 80 miles an hour? Something like that.

That's still pretty impressive. High 70s. Hey, let's talk about Starbucks double shot. Start with a bold Starbucks coffee. It's blended with milk for a smooth, creamy, delicious flavor. It's enhanced with ginseng, guarana, and B vitamins. Double shot available in six delicious flavors, mocha, vanilla, hazelnut, white chocolate, coffee, Mexican mocha, and energy coffee drink. Not only tastes great, gives you the energy to go from point A to point done. Always fun to open the fridge around 5.30.

We've got seven Starbucks double shots there. All right. Better than going to the actual Starbucks. I don't have to leave my house. Starbucks double shot energy to do the things you actually do. Find it in your local convenience store. Do you need a couple of Starbucks double shots on the training camp tour? A lot

of Starbucks. It was 80% Starbucks, panera five percent gas station grab and go what was the highlight give me your three highlights from the tour oh geez sitting down with aaron rogers yeah and getting his opinion on the state of football because and i would say the same for josh norman as well which this week. No one asked the players what they think. That's the state of the league right now. Like they don't care. They meet with their competition committee and that's the conduit to the players

and they don't ask the NFLPA anything. So they're passing kickoff rules or passing helmet rules, all this stuff. And nobody asks even the superstar players, hey, what's this going to do to the game? And that's why we're going to find ourselves, along with the fact that as soon as they passed the biggest rule change in the last 10 years,

they decided to switch over a bunch of new referees. So we're going to have referees who don't know what they're doing with incredible rule changes. So it'll be a complete disaster for the first two months of the season. That's separate. Now, Aaron Rodgers sitting down with him was absolutely awesome. You know, if that's number one, separate now aaron rogers sitting down with him was was absolutely awesome um you know the the number if that's number one i would say i had a good experience i've reported a story about

how everything happens in the first two seconds of a play now and i asked brandon graham about it you're not going to want to hear this so you can just close your ears um i asked him what he did to get to tom br Brady for the strip sack. And he stood me up and he gave me the move. He put on Shaq Mason. I don't want to read that. Yeah. Well, it's, it's, I, that's why I told you not to listen.

Yeah. I don't, not sure I want to hear it, but keep going. No. And so he just literally, I mean, he said, he talked about how the Patriots had tells on the offensive line and he couldn't tell me what they were, but he said they had massive tells on the offensive line and being poor blocking was that a tell we knew for a fact they were going to be bad after the snap we knew that no and uh and so he just sort of he literally

made me be shack and i he was brandon graham obviously and he put the move on me that was fantastic and then i would say um you know, I think just generally, the rookie quarterbacks bring so much excitement to this league. I think that one of the things that I keep harping on and I keep hearing, it's easier than ever to play quarterback. Easier than ever in the history of football to play quarterback. RPOs, like it's like a 68% completion percentage. If you can't complete a pass now, you are so beyond bad that it's unbelievable.

And so all of these guys who are coming in now are going to play really well in their rookie year in a way that people aren't expecting. And so I think that that's... I'm excited about that because four or five years ago, it was just too hard to play quarterback. It was just too hard. Well, I think they also went to teams and fan bases

that really desperately wanted a quarterback exactly so you have buffalo cleveland and the jets just start with those three all those fan bases have been dying would have like sacrificed small children to have a good quarterback in their lives for 10 years baker is the exact right quarterback for cleveland he wants to talk shit he wants to put cle Cleveland on his back. There's a couple of guys, Miles Garrett as well, who's a defensive... The very sensitive Miles Garrett.

Didn't realize he was a poetry writer. Oh, yeah. I'm writing a profile of him. The poet, Miles Garrett. I'm writing a profile of him that'll run on TheRinger.com. Not since Reed Rothschild have I been so impressed by poetry on my tv yeah um but one of the things that he said is and i really do believe this is that this brown's team takes pride in being carrying the torch lebron left okay i'm not saying they're going to make

the super bowl no no i mean that lebron left. No, I know. It's just hilarious. There's a hole in the Cleveland sports scene. And Miles Garrett. And it's going to be filled by the Indians. It's not. Okay. Let me ask you a question. I don't know the answer to this.

Yeah. What could the Indians possibly do? If the Indians win the World Series. Yeah. And the Browns win the AFC North. What is Cleveland happier about? Winning the World don't i just don't know cleveland enough but i i will say to piggyback on your point even if the browns went 10 and 6 and won the afc north cleveland be as excited as they were for like lebron when he came back right yeah exactly i think they just

want the browns to be decent. They just want something. Derek Anderson made the playoffs for them and is remembered now really fondly, and he's Derek Anderson. Bush Davis was the coach of that team. Yeah. They've had a really bad run.

That's been, it's really funny to me that in football, a league with parity that's specifically designed so this can't happen, you have teams like the Browns and bills who just can't succeed i mean all the rules are in their favor like all of them it's not like in basketball where you could tank for four years but you still need to get lucky with the mb draft and shit like that like your favorite team the orlando magic yeah they've sucked for six straight years and somehow don't have a guaranteed all-star in their roster. But in football, it should work in your favor between the cap and the

and now the rookie scale and all the stuff. It's impossible to be bad for two decades in a row. There's a couple things. Number one, I think ownership has a lot to do with it in the NFL. Sticking to a plan is the most important thing. I really do think that John Dorsey will get four years.

Solid hard knocks for him. I'd give him like a B or a B-. I got to tell you. Seems authoritative. They're not giving him enough runway. Because John Dorsey is like a top five NFL personality. I liked how they dealt with Antonio Callaway. I feel like I would have dealt the same way with nephew Kyle.

Had a similar incident happened and he didn't tell us for a couple days. Would have sat him down, be like, look, man, you get one chance with me. Actually, Nephew Kyle probably gets a lot of chances. That's why I don't have a car, though. You see, I just cut it right out. You don't have a car? Nephew Kyle, listen to me. I was like, don't get a car. You're in LA.

Use Uber. No insurance. Don't have to worry about parking it. We're crashing it yeah we're crashing it we're crashing it kevin clark both has a car and likes to get hit by other cars it's a hobby of mine yeah um you leave you leave the rigor and uh in pedestrian accidents it's two it's two to it's two to nothing i think across the board no alice and herman i thought god oh she was on a bike yeah it still counts i'm still counting it kyle's probably been hit got hit by car just by school bus all right there we go yeah this

will all be the ring of oral history um more training camp how it's geez um what was the most depressing training camp you went to you can tell us most depressing the one where it's like wow so there's a couple of training camps where you can just feel that the vibe is just like, nothing going on here. Nothing going on here. I would say that I think the all-time example last year was the Baltimore Ravens, where you knew they had to draft a Lamar Jackson

because it was just like, at one point Terrell Suggs was making fun of Ryan Mallett for being bad just openly on the field. It was the weirdest training camp thing maybe I've ever seen. That's not good. I think there's some definite weirdness in Buffalo right now because I think that that competition, I think Josh Allen makes better throws than McCarron and Nathan Peterman,

and they all make the same mistakes. And so you're kind of just watching and you're just like, what the hell is going on here? I'd say I don't really know what's going on in detroit right now i watched that practice and just i'm only there for one day in these places but i didn't i wasn't ready to run through a brick wall lions practice i gotta tell you patricia has like uh like tough stuff for bet on the screen and he shows correct he corrects guys on the field in real time. That's the only interesting thing about Lions practice. But I just think you can pencil them in

for just the Lions season. 9-10 wins being the ceiling. Has any Belichick assistant ever gone on to be a good head coach? I'm trying to think. Well, there was the brief fleeting Eric Mangini year. Yeah, it certainly was fleeting. Yep. There was the nine games of Josh McDaniels in Denver.

God. I don't understand why they only have just, it's not like they're complete disasters. They have just a little hint of success and then they just completely tank. The Patricia thing was hilarious to me because we lost the Super Bowl because we couldn't get one stop against the Eagles

for four straight quarters. Yep. We never stopped them ever. They did whatever they wanted. Nick Foles ended up getting a book out of the Super Bowl. And the Lions were like, that's our guy, Matt Patricia. Come on in. Here's a contract.

Also, the book on Belichick is that he doesn't really reveal the entire master plan to his assistants. Why would he? You're only getting a very narrow... That's what I'm like at the ringer. You're only getting a... Do fantasy and Maori know what I'm really thinking? I don't tell them. You're only getting a very narrow view of the Belichick experience.

And that was the whole theory behind why McDaniel stayed, is that Belichick, his little carrot, was, hey, I'll tell you everything, which I wouldn't even believe at this point. There's probably not even a lot to tell. I think Belichick, his little carrot was, hey, I'll tell you everything, which I wouldn't even believe at this point. There's probably not even a lot to tell. I think Belichick's really simple. I think he's just do your job, and he's cutthroat, and he studies tape, and he's really freaking smart,

and I think he remembers everything. Why are there personnel guys who come from his tree who have been better? Like, why is Thomas Dimitrov? I think that's that's if i was another team i would try to hire the personnel people in his in his tree right i wouldn't care about the coaches i think there's a thoroughness there i think there's things he looks for that other teams haven't figured out there's some sort of like even like this fifth rounder bentley yeah who is is gonna start and call plays the defense.

He was like a three-year captain at Purdue. He was downgraded because of some speed stuff and stuff like that, but just seems like a leader and a good guy. He looks over and over again for these leader tough guys. And I think the big thing, and one of his former lieutenants once told me this, and I think about it all the time. The one thing Belichick likes to do is he likes to scout based on what guys can do versus what they can't do. And that's the whole do your job mentality, right? And I think so many GMs sit there and say, that guy's not fast. That guy can't cover. That guy can't do X, Y, and Z. And Belichick flips it around and says, wait, if we got this guy in the fifth round, what is the one thing he could do? And is he worth 53 man spot? And I think that is the question that defines the personnel situation.

I think it's pretty useful. Do you know what Belichick's single biggest hole has been during his two decades as Pat's coach when he became the greatest football coach of all time? Defensive backs?

Drafting a specific type of receiver that he's missed on seven straight times. Yeah. Actually, so here are all the receivers in the history of the Patriots franchise from the second through fourth round.

Hench and I were texting about this yesterday. And I won't do the whole thing. I'll just go since 98, because I want to include my man, Tony Simmons, because I still have his jersey. So second rounders, 94, Kevin Lee, 06, Chad Jackson, 03, Bethel Johnson, 98, Tony Simmons, 2013, Aaron Dobson. That's every second rounder the Pats have spent on a receiver in the past 20 years.

All five of those guys failed. All of them. I don't even remember Chad Jackson or Aaron Dobson and anything other than like bad training camp reports. Fast guys will teach them. With Dobson, it was just like, oh, he's not getting along with McDaniels. And then like a minute later, he was gone. I do remember Bethel Johnson actually on a football field.

But with Jackson and Dobson, I just don't remember anything other than like, these guys are really struggling. These guys are running with the force. And then DM Branch at the tail end in 0-2 was the one success but then third round Brandon Tate 2009 Taylor Price 2010

fourth round Josh Boyce 2013 Malcolm Mitchell 2016 the Pats have gone one for eight in the second through fourth round and Malcolm Mitchell's already gone I actually liked him I think he just had knee issues he couldn't get healthy. Yeah, he couldn't stay in the field.

But the Steelers have drafted, like, how many guys from second through fourth round just in the last six years? And this James Washington guy is going to be really good. Over and over again, they've nailed these guys. And it seems like these are the easiest picks to make. And it's like the Belichick is one tiny blind spot. The theory, I remember hearing something a couple of years ago

from a scout, someone in the NFL. He was just like, you know what Bill Belichick should do is just hire someone else, just a VP of wide receivers. Of wide receiver consultants. You know what? Ted Thompson's not doing anything. Ted Thompson ate on everybody. Jordy Nelson, Devontae Adams.

Just call Ted Thompson and say, your job is to look at receivers. Here's $200,000 a year. There is some magic secret sauce with receivers. The one thing I would never do is just draft the Cordero Patterson type fast guy. We'll teach him how to read offenses, but he's got so much overwhelming natural. Those guys never seem to make it.

Did you see the Cordero Patterson? Adam Thielen. Yeah, no, incredible. Cordero Patterson is now flashing hype for with his third team. That's very exciting for you. I'm not banking on Cordero Patterson. No, you shouldn't.

He also made up an anecdote about Belichick. Did you see that? Yeah. That was strange. Just for the listeners. So he said, Belichick said, you're going to be the player you were meant to be or something like that.

And then he got to training camp and they asked him about it and he was like, oh, Belichick said, you're going to be the player you were meant to be or something like that. And then he got to training camp and they asked him about it and he was like, oh, Belichick never said that. My advice for working for Belichick, don't make up anecdotes. Yeah, don't make Belichick anecdotes. Did you see out of all the training camps you went to, did you see any team that you thought to yourself, oh, a little sleepery?

Ooh. I mean, I was really really this is not a sleeper I think after seeing them in training camp my Super Bowl NFC team was the Minnesota Vikings that's not

I just love their vibe I love I loved everything about them and you did a big piece for us about how they're using yeah the football version

of advanced metrics and I have a Cousins piece coming next week as well I sat down with him for a long time and I'm shorting all the Cous that uh that's you just wait until my piece runs yeah okay thank you um geez uh i are we sleeping on the falcons a little bit they've got an athletic defense i tell you who we're not sleeping on the indianapolis did they change

their oc they did not but we're not sleeping with them they Indianapolis Colts. Did they change their OC? They did not. We're not sleeping on them. The Indianapolis Colts. No, no, the Falcons. Did they change? Oh, no, they did not. Yeah, okay. It's still Sark. It's still Sark.

I'm out. But the Indianapolis Colts did not impress me, even though Andrew Luck. The Andrew Luck story can't be told until October, until he gets hit in a regular season game. And outside of that, they have, I mean, they didn't hit on their, on,

on Quincy Wilson, their pick last year. Um, I just, they've missed a while going back to, uh, what's his face, the awful GM they had for years.

Yeah. Gregson. The highlight of his career was, uh, framing the Patriots. Um, was the second highlight of his career, not agreeing to interview with me.

Cause I work for you. No, the second highlight of his career was trading a first-round pick for Trent Richardson, who should have been a left guard. And Stonewall and May is third. And Stonewall and May is third. Yeah, they missed on too many picks. You can't bounce back from that if you're just blowing entire drafts for years and years.

I will say, though, I was excited to read the Luck stuff. It seems like he's actually going to be back in our lives you know he feels good i mean but again so first of all jacoby brissett is did you see that like jim ursay says jacoby brissett is like a top 20 quarterback i mean i know what you're gonna say a reporter i have to deal with these people you can comment on jim or say well it's like at thanksgiving if your uncle has four glasses of wine and says something crazy you don't be sad he wouldn't remember it a week later he wouldn't trade it for anything basically the two untouchable backup quarterbacks in the nfl right now according to their teams are nick foals who won a super bowl yeah and then jacoby brissett

who led the nfl and and catchable dropped passes last year. We got our revenge on Nick Foles a couple of days ago. Little strip sack hurt his shoulder. Have some of that Nick Foles. How's that? How's your shoulder? How was that revenge game for you?

No, it's not. It's not at all. I'll never get over the Superbowl. I just want, give me an answer on Malcolm Butler. It went from being not bothered it to like, I'm really going to spend the rest of my life

not knowing what happened to Malcolm Butler. I was in Tennessee. I was in Tennessee. Did you know that the Titans just never asked Malcolm Butler? About what? About why he didn't play in that game. The guy they put in for him, first of all, I don't think is even in training camp. But it was also one of those like wow that guy's on

the field this is the super bowl is one of those moments everybody's looking at each other like why is this guy covering receivers here's the thing it's a very gossipy industry yeah very gossipy nothing's got now and the fact that there's not a strong rumor that when you have two beers with someone on the road they tell you indicates to me that I think it just might be a performance thing. He may just look like shit in practice. Do you think he slept with the Latte West? I finally, Kevin Clark's speechless.

I just don't, I'm just ready. By the way, Andrew Luck, my favorite. I'm just ready for you to come up with something else here. My favorite D&C football moment was them both saying Andrew Luck was being drafted too low in the league. He's right now, he's QB 19 and whatever they're saying. And then they're like, the only thing about him is can he stay healthy or not?

I'm like, yeah, that's exactly the reason he's being drafted too low. I love that podcast. I was getting mad at him. I'm power walking and yelling at both of them. The only question is whether the guy who last played a snap the same day Colin Kaepernick played a snap can stay healthy. And has had his shoulder operated on twice. And in a position where you land on your shoulder and it gets hurting. Andrew Luck has been on three ringer NFL shows with me since the last time he played football.

I will tell you this. He won't be on my fantasy team. I don't mess around. If I'm drafting a quarterback, I want to make sure the guy's on the field. And if he's on the field, great. And he's probably going to swing leagues if he plays 16 games. So you have no sleepers?

Fantasy sleepers? No, no. For... Oh! Geez. The Vikings aren't a sleeper. That was like a cut-out pick. But I just wanted to just point out that they're going to be good. Nobody? No shitty team? You were like, oh.

Not on the tour. I mean, everybody's... That's too bad. Yeah, everybody seems fairly stable. I'm crossing off Tampa. Oh, I am too. I think the Jameis thing is unrecoverable. And the karma gods are going to just annihilate

them this year. Wait, I have a new thought on this. Why aren't the Bucks just trading for Teddy? Teddy Bridgewater. I think that's a popular Twitter opinion right now. I didn't see it, but then- No, just in general. It makes sense.

And then just say, this is our guy going forward and let Jameis go to- They should waive Jameis. I would just cut the cord. Or just keep him around and let him play like whatever. Just let him play but and then then next year he can go sign and let's move on he can go sign in uh arizona to back up josh rosen or whatever i mean i don't know how do we feel about the chosen rosen has he been getting good buzz yeah he's been getting good it's like what we said i mean it's matthew berry was on this podcast last week and he said there are 22 good quarterbacks in the nfl that's not because there are 22 talented quarterbacks it's Matthew Barry was on this podcast last week, and he said there are 22 good quarterbacks in the NFL. That's not because there are 22 talented quarterbacks.

It's because, again, it's easy to play quarterback. So I think Josh Rosen will be, if he passed a play this year once, I can't believe, literally, we talk about the vice president as a heartbeat away from being president. Josh Rosen is a Sam Bradford injury away from starting, and that's pretty likely. So he's starting. He's starting week one. He's starting week one.

He's starting week one. See, I feel like the Rams have replaced the Pats as the biggest all-time lock to win their division. Oh. Just throw them in every parlay. I want to actually say a sleeper team that I'm ruling out. Okay. The Chicago Bears.

Yeah, that's just me. It's propaganda. No, but it's kind of common, actually. I just think they skip steps in the same sort of... They're not doing anything. They tried to take the same route as a lot of other teams with the offensive coach, young quarterback, all that stuff. I think they skipped too many steps to be good in 2018.

Explain this to me. Rams minus 150, Niners plus 260, Seattle plus 425. Who the F thinks Seattle's winning the NFC West? And Arizona's 18 to 1? Wait, Seattle has... Plus 450. That's ridiculous. Ridiculous.

That's ridiculous. They don't even care about this season. It's like a total rebuilding season for them. And they whiffed on their first round pick. They don't... I would make fun of them if the Pats were getting anything out of their top two picks. They should shut down Russell Wilson for the season so he doesn't die. The Rams are minus 150. I don't. I would make fun of them if the Pats were getting anything out of their top two picks. They should shut down Russell Wilson for the season so he doesn't die.

The Rams are minus 150. I don't get it. Why wouldn't they be like minus 400? The only thing I can think of is the schedule. I don't know. Also, I mean, it is a lot of new faces. Are here Sean McVay? It's kind of combustible there.

The Rams? Yeah. Because of the chemistry? Yeah. So Sue is basically like the DeMarcus Cousins. No, no, no. I mean, it's just a lot of different guys. It's different. I of the chemistry? Yeah. So Sue is basically like the DeMarcus Cousins. No, no, no. I mean, it's just a lot of different guys. It's different.

I like all of these guys personally. Marcus Peters, Aqib Tlaib, and Dominick and Sue. But you are just sort of building a defense on the fly. We're not used to that sort of super team. The rising salary cap, which has risen 10 million every year for six years, has led us to the place where you can get three quality veterans like that at one time and mold them all together we're it's unprecedented wade phillips has a lot of pressure on him now he's fine wade phillips doesn't know where he is i think the panthers might be good

uh coming up sean fantasy is gonna hop on and talk about jets qb's and his large adult son can i ask you one more question have you seen the new new Liam Neeson movie coming out? The snowplow movie. I think it's going to be one of the best 10 action snowplow movies. I haven't finished my top 10, but it's up there. Do you want to stay on for fantasy? Sure. All right.

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New players. Try FanDuel today. Get a $20 bonus when you make your first deposit. Just sign up and use promo code BS. All right, Sean Fantasy's here. He has Sam Darnold fever. He decided it would be a good idea to have Sam Darnold day. It's like you're trying to jinx your own savior. I promise it was not my idea. Savior Sam. It wasn't. Is that his nickname? Savior Sam? Just Sam. He's just Sam to me. The Jets QBs, it's a staggering list that dates back to before I was born. Joe Namath, still the greatest Jets QB of all time.

Correct. Finished with 170 TDs and 215 interceptions. And the last six years of his career were really abysmal. Yes, that's a fact. And he's the best Jets QB of all time. Just going by total yardage. Actually, let's go by QB record. So Namath is the Jets' wins leader at 60 and 61.

Ken O'Brien following him up at 50 and 55. I think Ken O'Brien has the best winning percentage. I will say, as somebody who's rooted against the Jets my whole life, which my first football season, I can remember anything as like 74. Ken O'Brien was probably the most competent quarterback you had. I actually felt like he knew what he was doing, and I was semi-afraid of him. I was raised on watching my dad get his hopes up

through three quarters of Ken O'Brien games and then get destroyed in the 80s in the fourth quarter. Yeah. He was like an early version of Phillip Rivers. Yeah, very similar. Very talented, big arm, threw a lot of. Yeah, very similar. Very similar. Very talented, big arm, threw a lot of touchdowns. Couldn't get it done.

And then the fourth quarter, just a massive disaster. Yes. Richard Todd, who took you to the 80 championship game and threw some picks. Before my time, but yeah. 42 and 51 lifetime, 110 TDs, 138 interceptions. Arguably the third best Jets quarterback ever. 138 interceptions in 102 games. Yeah. Thatets quarterback ever. 138 interceptions in 102 games. Yeah.

That's not good. Different era. That's not good. So Vinny Testaverde, you laugh, 35 and 26. 77 TDs, 58 interceptions. Made the AFC title game. A game that if you've ever watched on YouTube, which I may or may not have done in the last five years, was way closer than people remember.

And I remember this just because I think I bet the Jets were in such a messed up state as Jets fans that we now have to acknowledge that Vinny is deeply underrated and that he was like kind of a good quarterback for the Jets. Now, it's a little bit skewed by the fact that Bill Parcells was his head coach and bill parcells is one of the three best coaches in the history of sports so it's a little complicated but vinny you know also pride of long island grew up around the corner from my father we were really emotionally attached to vinny but um good comeback story it was ourselves yeah parcels can save him he still wasn't good though i kind of feel like there's a spanish soccer team that only uses local players and they play in the top division and they play barcelona and all that stuff I kind of feel like there's a Spanish soccer team that only uses local players and they play in the top division and they play Barcelona and all that stuff. I kind of feel like the Jets should have pivoted and just had Long Island guys.

They would have been ornery, I think. You would have still had DeBrickishaw Ferguson and Vinny Testaverde and Wayne Corbett and those guys. I don't think those guys would have had any problem with the anthem either. Well, Vinny somehow had two playoff wins. So Mark Sanchez, his highlight was he not only beat the Pats in Foxborough,

but threw three titties and no picks, if I remember correctly. That's a fact. It was kind of lights out. And that game was also the Pats came back. It looked like it was like 21-18, something like that. And then Sanchez just that was it. They should have beaten the Steelers that year. I agree. They just got off to a tough

start. I mean, both Pennington and Sanchez probably should have overcome the Steelers in AFC Championship games and didn't. That's painful. Pennington 32-29. 82 TDs, 55 picks. You can make a case for him as the best Jets could be. Two-time comeback player of the year.

After that, we go off a cliff. Boomer assassin, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, Brett Favre for a year. Neil O'Donoghue's brought here to win games. One of my favorite moments ever. I'm a winner. We can win here.

One of the great press conferences that's ever happened. He was an honorary Long Islander. He sounded just like Mike Francesa. I was going to say, you're just doing Mike's voice. great press conferences that's ever happened. He was an honorary Long Islander, even though he wasn't from Long Island. I was going to say, you're just doing Mike's voice. No, but that's what it was. I was living with my best friend, Jeff Gallo, and we saw that press conference, and for the next two years,

we were like, I was brought here to win games. I'm a winner. It was like, you went to one Super Bowl and you made somebody else, the other team, the MVP. He was out of the league in 24 months. So anyway, Darnold, I would say just, I don't even think this can be argued, is the most talented Jets QB of all time. I think that's right.

He's the most pedigree to be good that you've ever had since Joe Namath. Yeah, I mean, obviously I wrote about Darnold today a little bit and wrote about Namath a little bit. And I was having some fun at his expense because his career numbers in the light of aaron rogers's nfl are terrible yeah yeah but you know nameth won them a super bowl he's an iconic figure well his knees were shot yes and he had a horrible final five or six years of his career that kind of skewed everything too but um sam's probably the most talented jet ever which is like barring uh you know, Darrell Revis and Curtis Martin. It doesn't mean he's going to be good, but the Jets have had very few top five picks in their entire history, among them like Keyshawn Johnson, Mark Sanchez and Sam is right up there with those guys.

Yeah, I would say so. I mean, it's just they just don't do the typical sort of Buffalo Bills thing where they draft a first-round quarterback every couple of years. They just haven't done that. So the toolsy guys have not really existed. I think there are, there have been some really freaking talented players on the Jets. I think Chris Jenkins is a good example of someone who like no one talks about him anymore, but he was one of the most athletic guys in football at a huge size eight years ago. Totally.

But like, I guess there's a difference here. And the people that I focus on when I was writing about it were just QBs drafted by the Jets. Yeah, of course. Jenkins obviously came from the Panthers, had a great career, and then came into a dominant team and made them that much better.

They've had a lot of great players over the years. I guess I'm just thinking about players that they groomed and put forward. And you know, it's a pretty limited list. They just have so many stops and starts, and they've never really committed to a plan like this. And that's why I think just drafting a guy high, I mean, I guess Sanchez,

but that was the overarching Rex Ryan plan, which just petered out really quickly in the grand scheme of things. I think in order to save the McKagan-Bowles era, they had to do something like this, go all in and just pray for the next 36 months. My favorite part of this whole podcast was fantasy's revisions to history that the Jets never really have a top five pick.

Well, it's not that they didn't have a top five pick. By my count, you've had 25 top six picks since the 60s, including the problem is you've just picked the wrong guys. Vernon Galston. Well, Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams weren't bad picks, but Mark Sanchez, the Brick of Shaw Ferguson, Dwayne Robinson,

Sam Darnold this year. You also had years where I remember these years because I'm old, butny lamb jones was the second pick in 1984 i was like 14 and that seems stupid to a 14 year old like that's weird aren't there better guys ferdinand golston has it has a argument to be one of the worst draft picks in history they've just been bad at drafting never recorded the point i was trying to make is not

that they haven't had top five picks is that they haven't drafted very many talented players. I mean, they traded up to get Dwayne Robinson, I think, from Kentucky at the number five pick. They've made a lot of huge mistakes. Famously, I think probably their worst draft pick of all time is Ken O'Brien. Because he was selected three picks ahead of Dan Marino. There was bad Marino stuff going around, though. That was an all-time cocaine rumor draft.

It was. We did it 30 for 30. We talked about it. I would have taken it into my home immediately. Johnny Lamb Jones. Billy Sims was the first pick. Johnny Lamb was the second pick. The next two picks were Anthony Munoz and Bruce Clark. You're going to want Anthony Munoz and Bruce Clark. You're going to want

Anthony Munoz in there. But it was. Pencil him in for 20 years of high production. It's a tough draft. But they did this over and over again.

I remember, what was the Blair Thomas year? So that was 1995. Heaven. Let's see who else they could have had that year. That was, oh,

Jeff George and Blair Thomas were our first two picks iconic cortez kennedy three keith mccants for junior seo five it'd be nice to have junior sale i'm kind of i feel fortunate to have not had jeff george if i'm being honest yeah also by the way he was magnificent though pre-internet but jeff george was really something to behold he would have been something in new york in, they traded out of the 18th pick, and they passed on Randy Moss, who won three picks later. There's a lot of those.

The Jets have had a lot of those over the years, but Darnold actually feels like it was the right pick. And I think there's two things going on. One is that they might have a franchise QB. And then two is they actually made the right pick for once with the top five pick. Yeah. Although the scuttlebutt ahead of the draft right before the baker mayfield moment happened i would say i

don't know what kevin 36 hours before the draft actually happened they i think that many people assumed they were getting baker and that either darnold or alan were going one and i was kind of prepping myself for that and getting excited and all my kind of research and excitement was oriented around a baker mayfield new New York Jets thing. And then, I don't know, just somewhere along the way, Darnold slipped in the mind of Dorsey, or he was never really in play there in Cleveland. I don't know what happened. There was so much disinformation.

When you have five first-round quarterbacks, and maybe six if you count Rudolph as far as grades go, Peter King reported three months before the draft that the Browns were absolutely going to take Josh Allen and it was over. And then by draft night it was, oh, well, they're going to take, or the day before it was, oh, well, they're going to take Darnold. And so I just wouldn't, I just think it's one of the rare events where you just cannot trust anybody leading up to it.

No one is telling the truth. This is going to be a big moment because I rarely apologize and admit I was wrong. It's one of my things. Whoa, what's about to happen here? I think I was wrong about Baker Mayfield. I'm just getting out now. Sometimes I'm wrong. Were you out?

You were down on him? I just thought he had a lot of bust potential and I wouldn't have taken him first. And I think I was wrong. I think it was wrong. I think it actually seems like if you're the Browns and you bring this super confident guy in who's won in college, who kind of plays the way quarterbacks should play now. I think I was just wrong. I think I missed it.

There's something interesting with him and Darnold too, where it feels like both of these guys should just be playing now, but one of them is probably going to play and one of them is probably not. And I'm interested to see which is which. Baker's not going to play. Right, like Tyrod, it seems like he's going to play. Darnold, oddly, the conversation is really moving towards

he needs to start. Louis Reddick on TV on SportsCenter last night was just like, it's ridiculous if Darnold doesn't start for the Jets, which is pretty aggressive. I mean, Sam Darnold's one of the youngest players in the league. We always do this. We literally did this with Blake Bortles one year. That's true.

Where he has literally the second preseason game, and he looks good, and he hits open guys, and he's looking great against the twos and threes. And we say, it is an abomination if he doesn't start week one. And then we rush him along. There is a value in, I guess, not red-shirting a rookie quarterback, but at least giving him five, six games to sit. The most talented quarterback under the age of 35 right now

is Aaron Rodgers, and he sat for multiple seasons. There's something to that. He would not have been the same. I think there's just... Tom Brady sat for multiple seasons. TB sat for one year. The most talented quarterback under age 42 sat for multiple years. I don't see D see Donald sitting multiple years.

No, but I think they should hit. You're not going to make the playoffs this year. Sit for six, seven weeks. Learn to be professional. There are not, guys, there are not enough practices to get good at being an NFL quarterback. It doesn't happen. Training camp is so watered down now.

I love that Clark went NFL live on us. His hands are going. Learn how to be a professional. Teddy Bruschi, you have to learn to sit on the bench. And so, I haven't seen you this animated since you got the 90210 poster 30 minutes ago. Oh my god.

It was the most excited I've ever seen you. Thank you. I've won so many titles in all my sports. All I have left are 90210 posters. There are no more two-a-days. There's just not enough enough literally not enough hours in the day to learn how to play quarterback at the nfl level can i make a counter yes first four games of the jet schedule detroit at detroit monday night 7 10 p.m home for the dolphins at cleveland those are first three

and then you got jacksonville week four at jacksonville oh you want to go against the home for the Dolphins at Cleveland. Those are the first three. And then you got Jacksonville week four at Jacksonville. Oh, you want to go against the best defensive line of football? No, I don't. But I like those first three. Like if you were going to start them, those first three are like kind of a nice way to speak, man. This is a good strategy, actually, to let him play against bad teams and throw him a count of the Wolves

whenever it's your Jags time. When I was in college, I covered the 2007 dolphins and their whole thing was when was john beck gonna play and they were waiting they threw cleo they had trent green and trent green got concussed almost immediately was ended his career then they threw out cleo lemon and the whole thing was what what defense are we gonna start john beck at turns out it didn't matter turns out john didn't matter turns out John Beck sucked wasn't John Beck like a second round pick he was guess who I saw yesterday at Cowboys camp John Beck oh man he's a uh private quarterback coach now you're gonna want to learn

from John Beck aren't we all yeah fantasy which one of those teams scares you at Detroit home from Miami at Cleveland I think Detroit's a little bit better than people think they are so I'm not not according to KC who's just at the uh Detroit training I think they always have talent I think Matthew Stafford will one day inherit the earth from sort of the upper generation of quarterbacks I agree with that I just don't think it's going to happen in 2018 by the way guys it officially happened I'm excited for football I started thinking about the when I went full when I? No. Well, when you went NFL Live, that started it.

But I started thinking about the Monday night Jets at Detroit game at four o'clock West Coast time. I'm in. I mean, I'm all in, obviously.

Sign me up. The minute I saw Donald throw one preseason touchdown, I was like, best sport around. Can't believe it's back. Yeah, I called Sean

yesterday because I had to talk to him about a fairly urgent work thing and he's like, can call you back in an hour i'm watching the jets i was like okay i get it you've never had a qb that's true i was getting emotionally connected to my guy bill is he does sam scare you at all now that your dynasty is winding down we're soon to be removed from the tom brady Bill Belichick era, hopefully within the next 10 years. Yes. Are you afraid of Sam?

Yeah. We were just talking about it. One of these years, the Pats are going to go 6-10 and somebody else is going to take the division. The biggest reason nobody's taking the division, well, two reasons. There are three reasons. Quarterbacks, Jets, Dolphins, Bills. Yep. Speaks for itself.

Coaches. Nick Saban's really the only really good coach that's been in there other than like Rex for that one year. Parcells going way back before Belichick. And then bad owners. You have owners like Stephen Ross. I really truly believe he wanted Jim Harbaugh to go to Michigan over hiring him as a Dolphins coach. I really believe that.

I don't think he cares that much about the Dolphins. We know the Jets are a disaster. Can I posit a Jets theory? Yeah. One of the best things that ever happened just to the Jets was Donald Trump getting elected president. Here's why. Woody Johnson is now the ambassador to England, which means he is no longer participating in the day-to-day activities of New York jets.

Woody Johnson, as far as I can tell, is an incompetent owner. His brother, who was named, I believe is Chris, right? Kevin has been taking over day-to-day duties.

And I'm frankly impressed by Chris Johnson. And every time he speaks, I'm like, this guy seems to know what he's talking about. Wow. Bill, we're going to be at war with England somehow. And fantasy is like,

well, I know we're at war with England and the casualties are unbelievable, but I got to tell you, we got Darnold. I mean, you know, we make sacrifices in this country. I'll say another thing about the Pats.

No, to help your jets cause. Yeah. Okay. Week one home for Houston. We have no receivers. It's basically like double team, Chris Hogan,

chip Gronk on the line and just let everyone else beat you and we might actually score 13 points. Is Chris Hogan still 7-11? Is that a thing that they still call him that? Not really, not in New England. Chris Hogan's going to have like 13 catches in week 1 at Jacksonville week 2 that frightens the living F out of me that's the end of Tom Brady's career that day

can't wait for that day there's Slate I'm going to ignore that there. Can't wait for that day. There's slate, slate. I'm going to ignore that. There's slate, slate 0-2 potential. Just slate. Tiny. And then you go at Detroit Sunday night NBC week three. So picture this.

With the 0-2 pats going in there. I've played this out in my head repeatedly, especially after the offensive lineman we just drafted blew out his Achilles. And you start going, wow, there's just some bad juju about this season. You go into that game 0-2 and Al Michaels and Chris Collins were like, I mean, Al, I know it's the Patriots. I know.

But, you know, 0-2, it gets scary. It just does, Al. If you're going to be 0-2 with any quarterback, they got the guy. Yeah, and Brady's like nursing a sore shoulder. Like, there is a roadmap for this Pat season to go to hell. You said it, not me. I don't know. I don't know about that.

I just think if there was a roadmap for all the last 15 seasons to go to hell. The year they lost Tom Brady, they won 11 games. I know. Matt Castle told me they had a play called Randy where they just threw the ball to Randy Moss. This is part of my process. I was talking to Castle, what was that play called? It was called Randy.

Is that where you just give the ball to Randy? Yeah. Good play. It was effective. Great play. Worked against the Jets. In the Pats' benefit, it's yet another easy schedule. There's just not a lot of blue chippers on the docket.

I'm not banking on a playoff season for the Jets. I'm not even banking on Sam Darnold being good for two or three years. I think I'm just excited about the fact that they've just never had a guy like this. We were talking last night while we were watching the game in the office about Sanchez. And if I had a similar feeling to this as I did when Sanchez was drafted. Because he was also a top five pick touted recruit, et cetera, et cetera.

And I wasn't because Sanchez was, I think a reach at five. And most people said at the time, Pete Carroll ripped his, just his leaving early. That's what I was going to say. When you're a college coach publicly rips you. That's not a good sign.

It seemed like, I remember not being that afraid of Mark Sanchez. Yes. Being like, that feels like a reach. They were already talking about him as a game manager, which Darnold is like, there's no game manager. They're like, this guy really has a chance to be great.

He also had Brian Schottenheimer, who was a bottom 10 offensive coordinator. Who are your receivers? It's not bad. It's Robbie Anderson, Jermaine Kearse. The troubled Robbie Anderson. Yeah, is Robbie Anderson in the clear? I believe he's been cleared of charges.

All of them? I believe so. There were a lot of them. There were some infractions. I'm not going to defend them. His 40-yard dash was down this year because of the bracelet on his ankle, but he's fine. Who else? Oh, boy.

I had to make a noise. Terrell Pryor. Terrell Pryor? Wow, this is a hodgepodge. Who's on a one-year deal. Who seems very popular with ex-teammates, by the way. I heard you in... Somebody was talking about this.

Some podcast I was listening to. DJ Swearinger was basically punking the entire time during their joint practices. He basically said, Jay Gruden can't protect you now. We can go after you. That's exciting for Terrell Pryor. Popular guy in the locker room.

Terrell Pryor did not play last night. Curse is a solid number two. I gotta say, if Robbie Anderson could stay in the field, he's talented. He was a monster last year. He has, I think, two 900-yard receiving seasons. He's really fast. I don't know if he's an elite receiver,

but he's a building block. He was an elite Daily Fantasy guy last year. There was like a six-week stretch where his salary was way off i'm i'm pro robbie anderson on the field uh everything else is kind of up in the air with him but i mean he's a good player for donald too because donald's gonna need to just fling it sometimes and he's the kind of guy who ends up bringing the ball down when you just fling it i think this is gonna be a really fun football season in the sense that there's a lot of new blood, which Kevin and I discussed earlier. Tons of new blood. New York has two new guys that are just going to be really fun to add to the league.

The Browns being kind of interesting, the potential fall of the Pats, the definite fall of the Seahawks. Just to be clear, you're the only person in America talking about the potential downfall of the Pats. Kev, this is part of my process. Just allow me to, this is what I do in mid-August. I feel like I try to think of all the ways it can go wrong. And then in September 2nd, I bet on the Pats to win the AFC East. And then they do. That's part of my process.

Who do you guys think is the worst team in the NFL this season? Okay. Good question. I think it has the definite- It potentially could be Seattle. Yeah. Here's the problem. They have a top five quarterback. They have a top five receiver in Doug Baldwin.

They have Dwayne Brown who's really good. Then everything else is the absolute worst roster in the NFL. And so where does that fall, I guess, when you factor in the upper echelon? They've lost so many guys and they blew their first round pick who seems like he's not even gonna play and uh like doug baldwin seems like one of those guys that if it's going wrong uh he's great he's really good no no if it's going wrong he'll be smart

enough to be like yeah i'm gonna and he's hurt already do these curl routes to the to the out to the sideline i think i can name like four guys on the seahawks right now that's not a good sign or tomas is just not, he's just going to write Players Tribune articles for this season, I guess. They're going to have a monster in their division in the Rams

and potentially two if the Niners come through this year. I think the Niners are your way. I agree with that. I think the Niners have a chance. It just, it's really, all it takes now, rookies have an outsized influence

in the NFL now. And second year guys have an outsized influence in the NFL now. And second year guys have an outsized influence. It didn't used to be that way. And so if a couple of guys on that defense make the leap, it's a very different Niners team. I actually think Dallas

could be really bad. Oh, I agree with that. I think that's another one. I agree. I was at Cowboys camp the last two days. I felt nothing. Who's Dak throwing the ball to?

Cole Beasley? Dak is a classic. Are we sure? Alan Hearns. Okay, Alan Hearns is a credible NFL player. I mean, that wasn't, I was just factually naming it as Alan Hearns. I wasn't endorsing Alan Hearns.

They took a chance on someone else too. Who is the other player that they signed? Obviously, Zeke's going to get the ball a lot. Right. I'm going to give you the worst Super Bowl ads right now. Okay. I'm going to give you the worst Super Bowl ads right now. Okay.

The Buffalo Bills are plus 140. I guess that's like their receivers are better than 100. You win

145. Tavon Austin. That's what he's going to. He's going to. He's going to be like a gadget type. Right.

Yeah. I'm out on Tavon Austin. The Bills are the worst. It looks like 145-1. Jets are 125-1. That seems low. Tampa, 101. I agree with that.

Tampa has some bad juju this year. The thing that we didn't talk about with regard to Darnold is the Jets have a top five worst offensive line in the NFL this year. I brought that up earlier. I mean, it's David Carr's offensive line. He's in trouble. That's why they should sit him. One of the cases for sitting him is that he might just get annihilated. I mean, he's been under pressure in preseason games

against third-string defenses immensely. Counterpoint, Russell Wilson has been getting completely destroyed for five years, and he's still one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Yeah, Seattle's 60 to 1 which seems low the other ones that are in there miami's got terrible at cincinnati arizona chicago it's interesting to me the seattle thing is interesting to me because they were the first team to figure out the cba after it was signed 2011 and now that they're done we get to see the first sort of life cycle of a team that figured out

the CBA and I think that's what's interesting to watch about that it's almost like you used to talk about the guys who came in from high school in the NBA whether or not they age differently like now we see like the life cycle of a really good team in the modern era and it's five and a half years their secondary fell apart too

but that's it but also you sign those guys to big contracts, stuff starts log jamming, and then all of a sudden after five and a half years... You can tell they knew this last year because they made a couple big short-term bets with their salary cap knowing that they were going to be F'd for this year.

I think they had a golden generation in the secondary. Absolutely. Guys that were like three or four Hall of Famers there and those guys aren't on the team anymore or they're too injured to play. If you hit on third, fourth, and fifth round picks and they become all pro guys,

you're going to win the Super Bowl. Well, the reality is you have a four to five year run now. Yep. The Pats have been able to have four, four to five year runs. Tell me about it.

Seattle stretched theirs out to maybe five? Five years. And I think that's the upper limit unless you have a historically good coach and quarterback in the same place

six years 11 to 16 yeah right or 12 to 16 it was 11 they they made some noise

and made the playoffs yeah so so it was six year run which is more than you can ask for I I just I thought

Wilson was running for it was one year it was 12 12 is the first year so five year run 12 is the year they drafted Russell Wilson. And they were useless last year.

Wilson looked like he was running for his life last year. It's a football malpractice. Do you have Mahomes fever, by the way? A little bit? Touch of Mahomes? I talked to the GM there. He said they're actually. So generally, I'm waiting and seeing.

He's throwing a lot of interceptions in practice and people say aaron rogers throws a lot of interceptions in practice but that's different rogers is testing his his receivers a lot and he'll throw just to see if a guy can come down with it mahomes if he's doing that shouldn't be doing that he should be trying to complete passes in practice um i just think he's throwing interceptions so um i think that they're gonna try to i think the fact that he's a rookie quarterback and he's on the cheap deal and they can build a team around him is a big selling point for them and i think that's gonna be a net win because it's not like alex smith was so good um that i think saving 14 million dollars against

the cap is really important at that position i think mahomes can be can be really good i don't know if it's gonna to be this season. The Chiefs might be a 2019 team. Who has the best season? Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, or Patrick Mahomes? Kirk Cousins. I'd say Alex Smith. Alex Smith looked very competent last night.

I haven't done all my homework yet. The AFC West is... That's one of the ones I can't figure out. Kalo Mack's just not going to play. And also, why do we think John Gruden's going to be a good coach? I think that could be a disaster. I agree. And then you look at Denver with Keenum, which is allegedly they're rebuilding a little bit,

but I thought Keenum was good last year. I could see them being sneaky. Well, John Elway is... Chargers just every year, 10 guys get hurt. Yesterday, they were re-litigating why Colin Kaepernick isn't on the Denver Broncos. And did you see that's going to screw with the NFL's collusion case? Yes.

He's talking all about his testimony or his deposition. Elway. Elway, just getting after it. But it's funny, the Chiefs are plus 275. They were good last year. Yeah. Andy Reid every year is reliable in the regular season. Those odds seem the most out of whack, right?

Nine, ten wins we're looking at. And that just depends what else happens. Oakland, they gave John Gruden $100 million, and they're just not going to give Kulamak any money. The weird thing is, I don't know, there's so much legacy stuff. Like in the NFCs, the Eagles are minus 150. The Cowboys are plus 325. Giants are plus 450.

Redskins are plus 900. I think the Giants will be better than the Cowboys. Well, that's why I don't understand. Who thinks the Cowboys are going to be good? I don't see that. I think Jason Garrett has a better chance to be first coach fired than they win the division. This is a weird one. I feel like you could have said the exact same thing the last three seasons, though, win the division. This is a weird one.

I feel like you could have said the exact same thing the last three seasons, though, with the Cowboys. Before we knew that Dak and Zeke were going to be good every year, it's sort of like, are they good? They always had a good offensive line. Aside from that, there's no telling. You never know. They're a national team, too, so the odds are always a little bit skewed because of

that, right? You're saying the Cowboys. Oh, I get what you're saying. Yeah. More people bet on them. Yeah. So what's your Jets prediction. I get what you're saying. Yeah. More people bet on it. Yeah. So what's your Jets prediction? I'd be thrilled with 6-10

if he plays eight games and plays well, Sam. You hear Sean and I fixed the Oscars on Channel 33 last week? I haven't caught up on it. We fixed it. Yeah, they sent us a check.

They said, thanks so much, guys. The most popular category, which was the dumbest idea ever, and we actually made it work. We made it so that you have to submit to one or the other. So if you were... Yeah. I heard this today.

It's great. Yeah, if you're one of the comic book movies, you have a choice. Black Panther, you submit it for best movie or most popular, they'll submit to best movie. So cross them off. They're at a most popular. I have a note to address about another podcast you did, which is that on Tuesday, Danny and I

did a podcast. We mentioned William Hayes, the Dolphins defensive lineman who believes many conspiracy theories, including that we didn't land on the moon. And then I realized I started to make fun of this. And then I realized that we have someone here at the ringer.com. This is now revisionist history. Check out that episode of black on the air if you missed it

bill uh i didn't say i didn't believe around them no i didn't say we i didn't say i didn't think we landed on the moon he said it's one of those ones 90 10 i was like i'm not 100 in on it if i had to bet my life i would bet we landed on the moon. I'm just not 100% on it. I'm 90%. Okay, cool. I think JFK was killed by multiple people. I do believe that. I'm 100% on that. We're trying to do good journalism here at The Writer Bill. We're going to wrap it up here.

You want to plug anything? No. Who did you interview this week? The Crazy Rich Asians director. I did. John M. Chu, which is a great romantic comedy. And people should check that movie out. And John is a cool guy. anything no would you interview this week the crazy rich asians director i did john m2 which is a great romantic comedy and people should

check that movie out and john is a cool guy kc as far as when we got right around a fell show with danny kelly and rhino handlin um got a couple pieces coming next week kirk cousins all that

stuff cousins fever from you i mean i yeah that's what happens so it happens when when you pick a team to make the Super Bowl. You got to go all in on your pieces.

That's going to come back to haunt you. Thanks to Kevin. Thanks to Sean. Thanks to ZipCruiter. Don't forget to check them out. ZipCruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Starbucks Double Shot.

Starts with a bold Starbucks coffee blended with milk for a smooth, creamy, delicious flavor enhanced with ginseng, guarana, and B vitamins. Are you sharper when you have more energy, Kevin? Absolutely.

Great. I know fantasy is. Fantasy is drinking coffee constantly. The answer is true. Starbucks double shot. Energy to do the things you actually do. Find it in your local convenience store. Thanks to FanDuel. This NFL season, FanDuel has more ways to win than ever before, like the free weekly pick-em contest or FanDuel's free NFL Survivor League pick one team every week of the season for a chance at the $250,000 prize. FanDuel even has a new tool called Guru, which helps you pick your lineup so you feel more confident going into game day. Try FanDuel new players. Please, today, get a $20 bonus when you make your first deposit. Sign

up. Use promo code BS. Don't forget about D&C Football and the Ringer NFL show along with Kevin and Mays and GM Street and all the other stuff we have there. Fantasy Football coming up. Very exciting. Enjoy the week. Talk to you next week. I don't have On the wayside