The Bill Simmons Podcast - So Long, Tom Brady, With Cousin Sal | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: March 18, 2020

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss an end of an era: Tom Brady confirmed he is leaving the New England Patriots. They also discuss a few NFL trades including Stefon Diggs to the Buffalo Bills, DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals, David Johnson to the Texans, QB signings, Parent Corner and more (2:57). Then in honor of the GOAT's departure, Bill reads an article he wrote back in 2001 before the infamous Patriots-Raiders AFC divisional playoff game, describing the long and sad road to what would become the Patriots dynasty (54:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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uh, coverage on sports, pop culture, everything else coming up. We're going to talk to, um, cousin Sal about Tom Brady's departure from new England and all the ramifications from that.

And I'm going to read something that I wrote in 2001 about the Patriots before Brady's career really took off at the tail end of this. Wanted to give a shout out to our friend, Kevin Durant, who announced today that he tested positive for the coronavirus. I hope he is feeling better. I hope he gets through this. I hope everybody out there is taking care of themselves and trying not to freak out too much. This continues to be the scariest month that we've had since I've been alive. probably four or five days ago. So all we're going to do on this end is keep doing, trying to keep doing at least most of our job, try to keep doing podcasts. I know a lot of people are holed up. Hopefully everyone will soon be holed up,

trying to stay away from other people. And if you're watching TV, listening to podcasts, we're hoping we can at least have some content for you. Another rewatchable is coming up this week too, by the way. I don't want to give it away, but it's cast away. I just did. I gave it away.

It's going to be up later in the week on the Rewatchables feed. So stay tuned for that. And coming up, Sal, first our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. It is Tuesday afternoon, West Coast time. Things just getting weirder and weirder by the day.

Had to turn to an old friend, an old stalwart of the BS podcast, Cousin Sal. What was that noise? Hey, Bill. I'm sorry. I only got a couple minutes. I met Patrick Molloy. Joe House and I are in an 80-man corned beef hash eating challenge. What do you want to talk about?

It's not my turn yet, but just let me know. All right. That's a dumb joke. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I enjoyed it. You took me aback. You're messing with my emotions. I've already lost Tom Brady.

I don't want to lose you in house. What a day for you. I mean, this is the worst St. Patrick's Day ever for a Boston fan or Patriots fan or anything. Well, it was even worse for me because I didn't wake up until 8 o'clock. I stayed up super late last night, woke up at 8, and then just a bunch of text messages and the whole thing. And I was like, oh, God.

Oh, no. But then it was like, oh, my soon to be 43 year old quarterback left the Patriots. I guess it could be worse, but definitely a bittersweet day. So I'll give you my take from not knowing a lot, but reading between the lines the last few days. It really seems like the Patriots wanted to move on. I think it's hard to look at this after reading everything and seeing the tea leaves and then going back to when Brady sold his house in September and everything like that. It just seems like the Patriots just didn't want to pay what he thought he was worth because he ends up saying goodbye. He doesn't even have his next team yet. Did that strike you as weird as a neutral

party? Yeah, I was trying to look at the timeline and they say like Tampa Bay, who's right now, the odds on favor, it's just maybe by the time this post they'll have signed them. Right. Uh, they made him an offer. It seemed like a few days ago, seemed like the chargers did the same. And I think he, I don't, it seemed to me like he went back to the Patriots one more time. Cause why wouldn't you want to stay with the Patriots? Everyone could say whatever they want, but this is an aging quarterback. He knows the Patriots culture. He knows their system. They really were like one possession receiver away from making the AFC championship, you know, or one catch really by Edelman.

So I don't know why you'd want to leave there. Like they averaged 14 points a game on defense. You just tweak the offense. It looked like that's where he wanted to go. And regardless of what Kraft, Kraft made it look like it was Brady who pushed away. But I think you're right. I think it was the Patriots who were ready to move on.

But to move on to what? I don't know. Well, we knew it was going to have to be today just because they had to get rid of him. The cap hit totally changed if it went past a certain threshold. So it's a $13 million cap hit for him anyway. But then if they were going to pay him whatever, let's say he wanted $30 million a year and they would have to stretch it out over the next couple of years. Now you're

on the hook even longer. And meanwhile, you're just keeping your fingers crossed that your quarterback, who by the time he turns 43 in August will basically be in his mid-40s, that now you're just not going down this road. My guess is this is a little like the end of the usual suspects when, who is that? Chaz Palminteri. He starts looking around the wall and all of a sudden he realizes all these different clues and now it all makes more sense, right? The Garoppolo trade, the Seth Wickersham piece that he wrote at the time that I just didn't believe that there was a real fraction and that Belichick wanted Garoppolo to take over and Kraft intervened. Brady selling his house in September. Brady laying all these breadcrumbs that I was looking at it going, he's never going to actually leave.

Why would somebody want to just do the Unitas Chargers, uh, Nameth on the Rams thing? Come on, he's not actually doing that. And then we hit the, it got closer and closer. And then it really started to feel realistic last week, especially people from the combine. Everybody was saying, yeah, we think he's leaving and, And now we're here. But the weird thing to me, usually you leave and just, I'm leaving because I'm going here. Is it possible that he doesn't have the option yet? Now we're taping this at two, it's two o'clock Pacific time. By the time this posts, he might be on the Tampa Bay Bucs. I think that's the most likely scenario. But is it possible he didn't know for sure? And they all agreed last night, look, man, you're not coming back.

We're not paying that figure for you. Now he's semi-scrambling to find another team? Is that possible? That is a possibility. Although I do think the teams that I mentioned, the Raiders, the Bucs, possibly the Chargers, made him an offer somewhere. Whether it's good enough for him, whether it's better than what the Patriots offered,

it remains to be seen. But what I want to know is, so if Belichick wants him back, he's back, right? I mean, don't you agree at that point? Yeah. So what happens now with Belichick in terms of how Patriots fans look at him? You're taking a chance here.

I know you want to distance yourself from him, prove that you can win without him. I'm sure Brady wants to do the same. But I feel like this is more of a risk for Belichick in terms of how he's going to be seen by Patriots fans overall, right? Like, don't you feel like if you have two 8-8 seasons, he loses a lot of luster as far as, you know, a legendary coach, whereas it doesn't really matter what Brady does with any other team.

I don't know. That's how I feel. How do you feel as a Patriot fan? Well, I wonder if he looked at how the last two years went and especially how good the Chiefs are. And you're looking at the big picture and you're like, can we honestly beat the Chiefs with what we have? Basically, we miraculously won the Super Bowl two years ago. We shouldn't have gotten out of that AFC title game in Kansas City.

We did. And then sneak one out against the Rams where we had no offense at all. And you score one touchdown when it actually mattered and you win the game somehow. But now you're looking at this quarterback that, as we've talked about on this pod, it was a fairly predictable offense because Brady couldn't really move around. Everything had to be perfect. It was like the Barcelona soccer team style

of connecting all these passes. And I really think that, at least from the Belichick side, he was like, we can't pay this guy for past performance. We can't pay him $65 million for two years. Our team's not going to be good enough. If the goal is to win the Super Bowl, we're not going to come out of those two years with the Super Bowl. So why are we doing this? Belichick has always looked at this like, how do we win the Super Bowl?

And he obviously felt like by paying Brady that much money, it would be impossible for them to win the Superbowl. I think that's a fair assessment, right? Like, doesn't he have to have a plan to like, all right, how, if his, if his goal is, all right, how are we going to win the Superbowl? That's his outlook. And you could bet on this in some places. You got Jared Stidham as a starter is plus one. Andy Dalton, 3-1. Jameis Winston, 7-1. Derek Carr, 750. Foles, 9-1. Garoppolo is a huge swing. I don't think that's happening.

10-1. Who do you see in there? Or is there someone else he has in mind? I told you I thought it was going to be Jacoby Brissett. And that was, I told you that this morning when we were talking, even before the Colts signed Phil Rivers for one year, $25 million. And I think Brissette's been on the pats. They like him. He was good the first seven games of the year before he hurt his leg. Came back and played on one leg and looked terrible. And that was why the Colts didn't make the playoffs, basically, because he got hurt.

But I thought if you go back and you look at the first six, seven games, that was why the Colts didn't make the playoffs basically. Cause he got hurt. But I thought if you go back and you look at the first six, seven games, he was classic game manager could move around, create some plays, calm, you know, solid B minus solid B, something like that.

And I think he's under contract for one year, 15 million. So I thought that would make way more sense. I don't think Andy Dalton would fly into England, you know, cause he got to look at this. Like we just had the hottest wife of all time for, way more sense. I don't think Andy Dalton would fly into England, you know, because you got to look at this. Like, we just had the hottest wife

of all time for 20 years. And you'd almost like rather not, you'd almost rather not date anybody than be like, all right,

here's my new girlfriend. It's Andy Dalton. Right, right, right. You can't do that. You're like, we just had the greatest quarterback of all time. I thought you were comparing

Brady's wife to Dalton's wife. I see what you're doing. All right. Oh, no, no. A little more except. I get it. No, but you can't go for Tom Brady to Andy Dalton. You either have to bring somebody back who's been on the team,

like Brissette or Garoppolo, or you have to just go totally off the reservation and do Jameis. Right. Or you just play Stidham. Dalton's such like God, that would be depressing. That's like the most depressing option for me. As far as redhead athletes go in New England area

like Brian Scalabrini as far as you're going to go with that, right? Like a role player. He can't be manning the ship there. We did win a title with Scalabrini. Yeah, that's true. What is the ultimate FU from Belichick to Brady?

I guess it's Jimmy G and then second choice is Brissette, right? I don't think Brady would take Brissette as an FU. Brissette's now a backup quarterback. If he won with these guys. Oh, if he won with them. Oh, Dalton.

If he wins the Super Bowl with Dalton, then the Belichick... See, Brady's risking something here by, you know, whether he has two more years in him

or whatever, but if nothing happens to him and Belichick is able to win with like a B-minus quarterback, that would solve a lot of the really dumb Belichick versus Brady debates that we've seen. But I do feel like

when Van Noy left and Jamie Collins left, those two guys together, and then you think they used their franchise tag on a guard, whether they end up keeping him or not, we'll see. But I do wonder if there's a warrior scenario here where they just throw away this year and try to fix all the cap stuff. Because remember, they took the cap hit for Antonio Brown too. So I think that combined for Brady and Antonio Brown, it's got to be close to like 25 million bucks just in dead cap space, which is something they don't normally have to deal with because they've been

so smart with the cap. So maybe they look at this like, Hey, if we're going to bottom out, it's bottom out. We've, we don't have a second round pick. We've had a couple of really bad drafts.

We don't have our, you know, goat quarterback anymore. Maybe, maybe we just kind of reboot for a year. I guess so. I don't know where the money, you know, the cap is close to 200 million now.

So I was looking at their roster and they really don't allocate a little dead money there, but don't allocate a ton of money to like position players, um, uh, skill position players rather. So, uh, I don't know. I don't know where the money is. I do wonder though, for all the fun we made of Jamis, you know, we're rooting for that 30, 30. We've really, we're rooting for that 30-30. Really, we're watching the Buccaneers games more than our own teams towards the end just to see if we can get to that magical number. Do you feel like you screwed yourself a little bit?

If Tampa had a little more confidence in Jameis, they wouldn't even be discussing Tom Brady, and he might be back on your team. You think this is my fault? I'm trying to blame you somehow. That's always the goal here. Uh, I mean,

Jameis, let's talk about that scenario for a second. Brady going to Tampa Bay. If he has, if he's 80% as he, as good as he was in his prime, they have two of the best 10 receivers in the league. I was lucky enough to have both of those guys in my fantasy team and it was incredible. Those guys were open constantly. And whether Brady is the right quarterback for them

at this stage of his career, I'm not sure, but it's certainly more weapons than what he had in New England. And he's got some tight ends. Who is that third, the third receiver they had who, when the guys went down, what was his name? That guy was all of a sudden a fantasy juggernaut.

Oh, was it? Remember him? What's his name? Yeah, I know. He's filled in the last few. Isn't this terrible that we already forget? Well, we're just old though.

Was it Rashad Perriman? Rashad Perriman, who was wearing a uniform number that was similar to Evans and Godwin. And it was always confusing, you know, if you had two of the three guys, I'm like, oh yeah, oh no, that's Perriman. But, uh, but I thought they were pretty loaded. So I'm in this weird spot where I'm so grateful to the 20 years. And I'm going to talk after we leave. I'm going to read a column I wrote in 2001 and try to put all of it in perspective, how fucking sad it was. Okay, good. Yeah, definitely make sure I'm gone by the time you read that.

Yeah, you're going to be gone. I'm not going to read that with you on the line because you'll be just catcalling the whole time. But let's say he does go to Tampa and let's say they're really good and they're like 10 and one. And meanwhile, the Pats are plowing through three and eight year. That would be awful. Now, granted, under this scenario, we'll actually have football and we're not going to all be under some crazy quarantine. And I think it's, it's fun for a second just to let your mind drift to this world in September where things might actually be normal

again. But, um, but it would just be weird to watch him succeed on another team like that. I've never, I've never really had an athlete. I'm trying to think, have you, have you had a guy leave?? I guess Clemens, but Clemens' teams weren't really winning. He never won the World Series with the Yankees. He went to the Yankees for a minute,

right? I can't remember. I think he was on the 0-9 team, but at that point, I didn't care because we had already won. Bork went to the Avalanche, but everyone in Boston was actually rooting for, I didn't care because we had already won. Bork went to the avalanche, but everyone in Boston was actually rooting for him to win the cup

because that was really sad. The Bruins had just hit rock bottom. But yeah, I can't remember being in a scenario like this. I know other people have been with favorite players.

Yeah, you got to root against your guy a little bit or totally root for him and abandon your team. Well, it's like Lakers fans with Shaq. I remember in the mid two thousands when the Lakers chose between Shaq and Kobe and then Shaq went to Miami,

almost made the finals in oh five. Then he actually made an oh six, won the title and they're kind of happy for him, but also kind of bummed out. So I think that would be the reaction, but you know, what's interesting. I just,

I love Gil Brandt. He's a legend for that would be the reaction, but you know, what's interesting. I just, I love Gil Brandt. He's a legend for a hundred years. And he listed, you know, the NBA gets, I want to say credit for the action. I think they get crap for this, the way that players move around so much,

but he posted, uh, the NFL starting quarterbacks in 2018, Brady, new England. We don't know where he is now. Rivers chargers goes to the Colts. Luck, Colts, retired.

Manning, Giants, retired. Newton, Carolina, TBD. Tannehill, Miami, Tennessee. Winston, Tampa Bay, TBD. Dalton, Cincinnati, TBD. Bortles, Jaguars, Rams. It's such a mix of Rosen, Arizona, Tampa Bay. Mariota's gone to a different team.

Very strange how it moves around. Flacco. It's almost like how NBA coaches, how there's a ton of turnover with that. You don't usually see that with the quarterback position. Hold on, Sal. Quick break to talk about Google Cloud.

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nearly instantaneously to customers online and arming 400,000 associates with the knowledge tools they need to help any doer who walks through the door. Google Cloud, what are you solving for? Visit g.co slash cloud slash solving to find out. Can we talk about Tom Brady worst case scenarios? That's why I was asking you what the biggest FU is, but the worst case scenario is the Patriots going far, right? Yeah, I would say the worst case scenario would be twofold. One is the Patriots don't really miss much of a beat without

him, which I think is unrealistic, but you can't count out Belichick and you can't forget the Matt Castle season and even the deflategate before games Brady was suspended. They still have the best coaching staff and they still have really smart players that they target and things like that. If they decide not to do the Golden State Warriors, and my guess would be Belichick wouldn't want to do the Golden State Warriors, especially with all this cap space. I just think they'll overachieve because he's the coach.

But the worst, worst case scenarios for Brady is that he switches teams and he's just in that last Peyton Manning year in Denver situation where Manning, you know, Manning wins the Superbowl, but he's certainly not one of the top eight reasons they win the Superbowl that year. And if anything, he held them back and it was kind of a bummer to watch him. And I was somebody that rooted against him his whole career. And even I was kind of bummed out.

And, you know, he ended up, he made a couple of big throws in the AFC title game against the Pats. They didn't really need him in the Super Bowl. But for the most part, he was so bad that year that he wanted to play the next year and nobody wanted to sign him,

which is, it's one of those things that falls through the cracks over the years. Affiliation with Papa John. It was a deteriorating skill. Might have been. It's possible. But yeah, it was kind of a sad way for him to go out because I remember Peter King

was writing columns that year and it was like, Peyton Manning absolutely wants to play and all 32 teams were like, yeah, cool. We're good. It's not happening. I was thinking that when when, you know, all these cities that might be excited to get, I'm hired.

If he goes to Vegas, that's a nice fun start for John Gruden and the Raiders in Las Vegas. Or if he goes to the chargers, they need something to, you know, put this, the, they're like little brother to the Rams and the stadium and then a new stadium who knows what's going to show up, you know, that that'd be a nice boost to start, you know, or even Tampa Bay, but how much are these fans? How much is this franchise, Bruce Arians,

whoever it is going to put up with Brady. If he throws six interceptions in the first three games, you know, one or two or a pick six, like, I don't know. It wears off very quickly. Whereas, um, I think like Belichick has a little more wiggle room with whoever he puts in there, um,

to, to replace him. I was talking to a bunch of different people today, texting and got varying perspectives. And, uh, you're not going to believe this, but our friend Hench was on the camp of,

he should maybe, he should maybe pack it up. What's he doing? There is a scenario where he's just not that good next year. And people are like, wow, we really made a big deal out of this guy who's 43, where he's going to play. He ends up getting a big contract and he's just not that good anymore.

I do think that's more realistic than him being awesome. We've learned not to count this guy out, but I just think 43 years old, Jesus. Yeah. The only thing is you count on Tom Brady to be smart enough to know when that is. So when he says I could play to 45, 46, even though the numbers declined over the last three years, you kind of want to believe him because he has the six rings and you kind of, you should believe him. So if he, that's what, that's the only hope right there,

right? If it's, this is a nameless faceless person. You looked at his numbers, you'd be like, no, I'd never take a chance on that. But because he's Tom Brady,

you take him for his word. Um, and I think that's, I think that's basically how he would craft a new contract with some of these teams. I was thinking about Hench and when the Hopkins for David Johnson trade virtually went down, how crazy would Hench be in our league, our fantasy league, if that were, if that happened, but that,

they would have to be restraining orders, right? Well, and, and the fact that the Patriots weren't involved in that trade. Yeah. I kind of knew when they let him go and Stefan Diggs, both of those guys just go by the Wade side. That was when I was like, oh man, they're really not going to bring Brady back. Even Austin Hooper, even a tight end like Austin Hooper or Hunter Henry who was like tagged, that could have been the missing piece right there for you guys.

I mean, if you had told me yesterday that they traded Nikhil Harry and their first-round pick for Hopkins, I would have been like, that's a great trade. Sure. That's probably what the price for DeAndre Hopkins should be. And for what

Houston got, I know O'Brien got eviscerated the last 30 hours, but that was about 40% of what I would have thought he was worth. I mean, when you think like Diggs, and I know Diggs had a much more favorable contract, but the haul for Diggs almost seemed like it was twice as much as what Houston got for Hopkins. It was more expensive. It was a one, a five, a six in 2021, and for a seven in 2020, or a one, a five, a six in 2020, and for a seven in 2020. It's craziness.

Like, O'Brien, if you wanted to defend him, you had like an hour maybe to do it before that Diggs trade went through. And it's like, oh my God, he really just didn't get on the phone to call GMs. And that's the one thing you guys have going against you. Even though you have fleece teams in the past, I think people are didn't get on the phone to call GMs. And that's the one thing you guys have going against you, even though you have fleece teams in the past, I think people are wary of getting on the phone with Belichick and making a

trade like that. Well, I hope O'Brien didn't do the whole thing about wanting to trade Hopkins outside his conference. I haven't seen all his quotes about it, but that's always one of my least favorite. Yeah. I remember when, when a Belichick traded blood, so to the bills in our division, everybody went nuts.

He's like, what do I care? They, they made the best offer. It's not like we'd have to go through them at some point if we're trying to win the Superbowl anyway, but I really hope that wasn't his logic. Like,

well, you know, we, we could have, we had a couple AFC offers, but we, you know, we just wanted to send him out of the conference.

Don't worry. Don't worry. Bill O'Brien Houston won't be competing for a out of the conference. Don't worry, Bill O'Brien. Houston won't be competing for a title any time soon. I would be... Can you imagine... I mean, nobody cares about the Texans. That's got to be a top five

nobody cares about them team, just because they've only been around 20 years. They're probably behind the Rockets at least in Houston just for like attention.

They don't know what to think of the Astros and A.J. Hinch and everything. It's really craziness now. Yeah, between the Rockets, the Astros,

in general, it's not like they've captured the city in the current way. Like, they have a chance to win the title or anything like that.

But can you imagine if that was the Cowboys and the Cowboys traded two first round picks for Laramie Tunsil and then gave away Hopkins for a second round pick? Like people, that would all be everything ESPN talked about for like five straight weeks about how Dallas, what's wrong with them. Yeah. I get a lot of, Jerry Jones gets a lot of crap for not naming the GM. And then you look at across town rivals, if you will, within Bill O'Brien.

It's like, oh, thank God. That's good. Maybe Bill O'Brien's on Jerry Jones' payroll. Really? You might be. To sabotage football in Texas? Yeah. I guess I don't really understand

what anyone's worth in football. In basketball, I have an excellent gauge for prices. And in football, it's like Stefan Diggs gets 40% more than what Houston got for DeAndre Hopkins, basically because he makes less money. But then the cap went way up this year. Yeah. Well, there was a couple of things, and this is why I didn't defend bill O'Brien. But again,

and when that Stefan Diggs trade came down, there was nothing you could say to defend bill O'Brien. He just didn't do due diligence, but you're like, Oh man, all right, this looks bad, but all right,

Hopkins, there's a, he didn't get along with O'Brien in the front office. So they weren't resigning him anyway. They didn't have a pick in the top 50. So it was good that they got a second round. They're out of them. And I don't know.

I was trying to, David Johnson healthy is better than Carlos Hyde and Lamar Miller. Then you got Fuller, Kenny Stills, and then they signed Randall Cobb. And all of a sudden they're giving much more money to Randall Cobb and David Johnson than they would just DeAndre Hopkins. And like,

it didn't make any sense from any way you looked at it. Yeah. When they'd signed Randall Cobb to whatever they signed him to, that was like, Oh, they're just, they're just the worst run team in the league. Now we have all of our answers. It was like any semblance of the possibility of a master plan just went by the wayside. But you know, for the Patriots, they gave up a second round pick for Mohamed Sanu, which is basically

what Arizona gave up for DeAndre Hopkins. They threw in David Johnson, but David Johnson wasn't even the best running back on his own team. Right. It's tough. I sincerely doubt that Houston would have traded

DeAndre Hopkins to New England. No, I don't think so. All right. So anyway, your prediction for the Patriots next QB is who? I don't think they could go too crazy here. I really don't. So as of the time we're on here, there's only like three major quarterbacks that haven't had a landing spot. Like Brady, Newton, and Winston, right?

Now, you could say Derek Carr or someone like Nick Foles has to jump around or something, and there's an outside chance Garoppolo moves. Not going to happen, but it's those three, right? As soon as those three fit in,

you know what's going to happen. But I think you're right. I think it's an Andy Dalton-type guy. I don't think they go into the season with Jared Stidham as their number one. This is brutal. Andy Dalton. Nice guy.

Listen, you'll play the Shakey's game on the first Saturday. Won't that be fun? Yeah, that wouldn't be fun. Guaranteed. Wouldn't enjoy that either. Pats are 35-1 to win the Super Bowl right now. Who is? Oh, the Pats.

The Patriots. Yeah. So, I know you did some of this on Against All Odds, but Tampa Bay is over under right now. It's still eight and a half wins. Is it? Wow. Minus 145. Maybe that's smart to jump on the over for right now. It's still eight and a half wins. Is it? Wow. Minus 145. Maybe that's smart to jump on the over for the nine. Yeah, that's pretty good. I was also thinking in your

division, this might be a nice emotional hedge for you. Bills plus 165. So Brady comes out with the report or the post on Instagram and they were plus 350. And I was like texting you in half. And just as I was texting you guys, it fell off the board. Now it's, it's half that it's plus one 65, but I still think that's decent value, right? That often should be good. That defense was almost as good as the Patriots. I'm definitely not doing that.

We'll talk afterwards. I know in public, you don't want to do that No, I would not do that The emotional hedge would be to bet on Brady With the Bucks To have a little extra on it You know, and then if He does well and he comes back to haunt the Patriots At least like you're making some money out of it

Yeah, but you'll be happy for him anyway Right, isn't that how it's played? I think you'll be happy for him either way Yeah, it'll be happy for him anyway, right? Isn't that how it's played? I think you'll be happy for him either way. Yeah, it'll be weird. Yeah. Hey, I've never been in this situation with any athlete who we've had for this long just ended up staying for the long haul.

Clemens was the closest, and the Clemens thing was much more acrimonial. Yeah. You know, we also, acrimonious. Acrimonious. I think this is where we disagree. I think Belichick's legacy has, uh,

more chance of getting, taking a hit here. I really do. You think I do any legacies take a hit? Can I go with the no legacies take a hit no matter what happens? Yeah, sure. But I think Patriots fans,

when all said and done, like right now, right, right now, you would say if you had to allocate a percentage of the Super Bowls, who is it? And I don't know if you've ever answered this. Who is more responsible for their Super Bowls, Belichick or Brady? Or you're going to say you can't separate it. I would say 60-40 Belichick 60-40 Belichick alright so sure he has more to lose now

right if Brady makes the playoffs and he stumbles around 8-8 only cause the organization that he built and the way

that they figured out the cap and all these different loopholes that he just kind of mastered over the years um you know

I think both I think both guys would have won Super Bowls without each other, and I don't really like to separate them. Well, I made you do it, and you know what? I think that's a quotable moment, and good for you. The aggregators. Belichick just figured out some stuff

ahead of time. He definitely figured out the don't pay people for past performance thing. Yeah. Move on people two years early instead of two years too late. He definitely figured out don't overpay for one asset. Try to spread it around. Try to have depth. Do that whole thing.

Use your cap space really smartly. Try to roll over picks for more value. He figured that piece out. And then just recently, the last six, seven years, figured out the whole NFL middle class thing where they just over and over again were targeting these guys that made between five and $8 million and trying to add up those guys versus paying two guys $32 million. I think you come at it in an intelligent manner. I don't know if all Patriots fans follow that.

I think if the best case for Brady is you can go to one game, being down 28-3, right? It's kind of out of Belichick's hands there. And probably screwed them for the Super Bowl, right, with the whole Butler thing. What's the best case for Belichick? A season they definitely shouldn't have won, and they did. I think the Rams Super Bowl is a classic Belichick.

That was where he just completely figured out how to stop the Rams. And they only needed 13 points from the offense. And they won it. I think the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowls are probably skewed more toward Brady because I just don't think there's a lot of quarterbacks who could have come back from that. You know, coming back from 10 in Seattle. But then Belichick ends up Jedi mind-tricking Carroll in the last minute.

So maybe they split that one equally. And then the Falcons one is just Brady. That's the greatest game of his career. Those early Super Bowls are tough, although that first one I have to give to Brady, I think. The Rams

Super Bowl, he really wasn't that good in that game, though. They didn't move the ball at all in the second half. I mean, that team was so undermanned. His second half numbers were as good as the first half numbers, I thought. I thought for sure. In that game? Yeah. I mean, the thing

about him in that game was how bad the weapons were. It was unbelievable. Like, the starting tight end wasn't even in the league the next year. The running back was a backup running back, and the wide receivers were like third and fourth receivers on any other team. Yeah. So,

uh, last thing, and then we'll wrap up the Brady thing. The, uh, thank God the, um, the,

the whole concept of somebody finishing their career somewhere else. You had it happen with Emmett Smith, who was your idol for a long time until you actually met him. Right. He ended up in Arizona and now nobody remembers that. But in the moment,

it was pretty strange and didn't seem right. And when you think about great players who are attached to a certain franchise then ending their career in a different franchise. There's not a lot of fond memories for it. Montana to the Chiefs, even that one,

they almost made the Super Bowl, but they didn't. He had a couple good Monday Night Football games, stuff like that, but it wasn't the most awesome thing. I don't have a lot of fond Joe Montana Chiefs memories. Manning to the Broncos, I think was pretty fluky because they had the Andrew Luck thing, Manning had the four neck surgeries and he had something to prove and he had a couple of monster years for the Broncos. I think it's tough to compare that situation to anything. But for the most part, usually this doesn't go that great. And then you see what happened with Kobe

Bryant here in January and February in Los Angeles, how he played two decades for the same team, really belonged to the city, retired after here. And the outpouring that happened, happened for so many reasons. But one of the biggest reasons was he was such a big part of Los Angeles and he never left. And now Brady's basically punted on that. Do you think that's going to matter? So I remember being terrified that, uh, Romo, you know, when they had committed to Dak, that he was going to go somewhere else. I'm like, Oh no, no, I can't do it. I don't want to do this. I'll leave the Cowboys. I'll never come back. I have to, my kids are going to be confused. You know, you don't want to deal with it. Um, with it. Forget the emotional part of it. It's

just a lot of work. But I don't know. It depends how this gets... I think someone's going to have to write an article about how this really went down. I think he can get a lot of sympathy if it is, as you say, and the Patriots just passed on him. Well, it definitely seems like there was acrimony dating back to last summer for whatever reason and you know now that we look back and it's like he sold his house it wasn't just him being dramatic and all the other stuff that happened

these little signs here and there and you know quotes and Instagram posts and all that stuff it wasn't just him playing up the drama he actually did feel like this was going to be his last season. He did hit some sort of tipping point with them. But I do feel like, you know, it's like any relationship,

when you spend 20 years with the same entity, you start every slight, every whatever starts getting magnified. Like our cousin Jimmy has had that TV show now for what, 18 years? Yeah, yeah. 18.

Yeah, almost, this is the 18th year. But it's not acrimonious. They actually need him. His show makes money for them and stuff like that. But if he had been kind of,

if they had had the same ABC president that entire time and it was always like who gets credit for whatever. And, and,

and Jimmy was all these slight started piling up. Couldn't you, couldn't you see at some point him going, I'm taking this to another TV network. Screw this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So maybe that's what this was. Well, and they also made it clear, or at least Belichick kind of made it, made it more clear that, you know, it's, uh,

he would always want that opportunity to see what, what it would be like to win without Brady, you know? And, uh, I don't know. The Jimmy G thing could have, it could have been over then.

Right. So you got more years out of Brady. You got a super bowl. And, um, now, now, like I said,

I think it's, it's the balls in Belichick's court. He has more to prove here. Well, it's like one of my friends said, if Adam Vinatieri goes to Indianapolis for more money and then just becomes another guy during this whole Pats dynasty,

whereas if he stays with the Pats for 20 years, he owns a bunch of sports bars in Massachusetts and has a completely different meaning. The problem with this analogy, since I introduced it on the podcast the last time, as a couple of people pointed out, there's no way Belichick would have kept him for 20 years. He would have brutally murdered him at some point

and waived him when you least expected it for some cheaper kicker. So there's no way we could have even played out that scenario. But Belichick, cutthroat dude, and maybe Brady knew that and wanted to leave while he had at least a little bit of leverage left and

didn't want to be Peyton Manning after that last Denver year when Denver's like, yeah, we're good. We're not going to keep this going. Chargers and Raiders are on the Patriots schedule this year. That'd be fun if it ends up there. And the Bucs are on the Patriots schedule for 2021. I mean Bucs are on the Patriots' schedule

for 2021. I mean, we could kick off the first Sunday night with the Chargers-Patriots. As a fan of Tom Brady, I hope he goes to Tampa Bay. You do. And has a legit chance to win. Him going to the Chargers would be lame. Nobody cares about the Chargers here.

You want him out of the conference, too. You're the same way. Nobody cares about the Chargers here. You want them out of the conference too. You're the same way. Nobody cares about the Chargers here. How many Chargers conversations have you had in 10 years? Do you think the new rules played a factor in either of their decisions, Belichick or Brady? So now you could be

eight and seven going into the last week and look at a wild card with seven playoff teams in each. Oh, interesting. I wonder now, now doesn't necessarily have to win the division. So you think Andy Dalton has gained value because of new rules now? Nine and six is a playoff team or that nine and eight is,

could be a playoff team. That's first of all, the first year they won't play 17, they'll play 16 still, but yeah, so you could be, you could technically be eight and eight could be a playoff team? That's in his wheelhouse. First of all, the first year they won't play 17. They'll play 16 still. But yeah, so you could technically be eight and eight and get in. My Cowboys are minus 200 to make the playoffs. That's how easy they see it as this year.

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm still grappling with all this stuff. The worst case scenario is Brady doing well and us being saddled with some QB that the rest of America can make fun of. Not just Andy Dalton, but what if it's Trubisky? What if the Bears

trade for Cam Newton and Trubisky and then Belichick steals Trubisky thinking, this guy was a top three pick a couple years ago. I'm getting real value here. He was in a bad system. We'll put him in our system. We'll teach him how to be a quarterback. And then we have Mitch Trubisky. See, this is the kind of stuff I never had to worry about for 20 years. The best thing, and you've been in this situation a few times with the Cowboys. The best thing about having a good quarterback is you don't have a bad quarterback

because when you have a bad quarterback, that's the fucking worst. What's worse than having a good quarterback is you don't have a bad quarterback because when you have a bad quarterback, that's the fucking worst. What's worse than having a bad quarterback? No, I mean, having a bad quarterback feels way worse than having a good quarterback feels good. You know what I mean? I know. I know because you don't have to worry about a dumb interception in the fourth quarter, 10 out of 16 games. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It's a fucking nightmare. Who is the worst quarterback you've had in the last 20 years that actually started for a decent

team? Testaverde, Bledsoe, Quincy Carter made the playoffs. Yeah, that was about it before the good ones came in. We had, I remember Tony East in post-Super Bowl. Mm-hmm.

And he was good the next year and then he just kind of lost his confidence. Yeah. And for like five straight years, we just had the worst quarterbacks. It was just one after the other. Like, Flutie was in there.

Hugh Millen. Oh, my God. I can't even remember. Oh, look at the Browns. They did it. It is 60 quarterbacks in 20 years or something. Then they get a good one

and he's terrible. So my expert opinion is it's better to have a good quarterback than a bad one. You have to have a good quarterback. I'm going to leave you with that. We've been stuck

with our families. We're going to do an emergency parent corner. One break. Hey, with home security, there are two ways you can go about protecting your home. There's the traditional way where you wait weeks for a technician

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You know, it's funny. They say, oh, there's going to be a baby boom nine months from now. But I also think there's going to be a lot of kids up for adoption. So maybe everyone should take it easy on the sex. Because you could snatch up a kid at will, I think, come whatever month this is, come December. It's rough, right? And there's going to be, I think we have like three months of this, right? What would you say?

I would say minimum three months. I've been saying that on the last couple of pods. It doesn't seem realistic that this ends before June. Right. And so that means, okay, so the teacher's approval ratings are through the roof right now because now we're homeschooling all our kids and they're all shitheads. They don't want to sit still for 10 minutes. I don't blame them. They're home. Why would they want to sit still? And they're like, Oh, I have all day to do this, but it is creating so many fights in my

house and my wife and I, which are middle kid and just doesn't want to do any work. Right. Are you going through the same thing? It's gone to another level in my house because normally my son, who's been basically preparing for a quarantine his whole life, this is everything he's, you know, ready to do. Normally he would be jumping in the trampoline for an hour, playing basketball, playing hockey, going inside, playing guitar, playing video games. He'd just be going, but he's got a broken foot. And so he's still limping around in a cast. So he can't do all the energy stuff. And he's not working off the three to four to five hours of just, just doing stuff. Cause he can't. So he is driving as crazy. Like to the,

to the point where I might put them on eBay pretty soon. I've been thinking about it. Can you put human beings on eBay or no? I saw his Instagram post and he said, you have this nice flowery thing, everything you've done. Thanks. Go.

Six time champ, whatever. Sorry if I'm stepping on your parent corner, but what did he write on his post? I'm going to get it for you Yeah, first of all I don't think he I don't think he watched more than three complete

Patriot games, just pieces of a lot of them He said My son's parent His it's great post was Dear Tom Brady You have been great for many years but it's time you go we have loved the time you

we have loved the time you have been in New England thank you and then I texted him I was like can you just at least if you're going to put that can you change love to loved so all the tense is right no still well it's at least if you're going to saw the tenses right. Nope. That's what you learned about the tenses matching up.

Well, it's at least if you're going to throw Tom Brady under the bus with some Instagram post. Can you at least get your tenses right in the post? No. Apparently not. You can't. I love it. Yeah, I mean, I'm crazy about you know, I don't know how you are, but I don't want anyone leaving the house.

It turns out I have a lot of stupid people in my family, like my mother, for instance, who, if you do the math, is not under 50 years old. And, like, we FaceTimed her today. We're checking in, and she's like, oh, I don't know, my face doesn't look good. I don't want you to just call me.

I was like, oh, what happened? She's like, well, I got laser on my face. I was like, you're going out and getting, like, laser surgery? Yeah, it was, like, 90% off. I was like, of course it's 90% off. No one's supposed to leave their house. No one over 65 is supposed to leave your house. You're getting laser surgery on your face. You're going to get lasered off the planet. And between that and my son is in like some kind of like tag game or something. He's like, he and the whole grade are in a tag game. And he was it. And somehow he could, he could like track people

on his phone he's like oh i gotta get this guy he's walking along the strand at the beach mom uh let me jump in the car can we get him i was like what the hell are you guys doing this is exactly what you're not supposed to do and they come back and they tag the guy and it's guys like i can't this is totally opposite of what you're supposed to be doing right now, playing tag. I don't care what your street or anything. So I'm, uh, I'm freaking out a little bit. I don't want anyone coming with, this is going to sound douchey, but we had the, the housekeeper. Like, I just, I'm like, no, let's pay her.

I just send her money. I don't want, I don't want her coming on the bus and whatever and everything getting screwed up. So this is, this is our lives now. What has been the oftentimes vicious rivalry between your middle son and your youngest son? What's that been like during the quarantine? Well, it's bad and it's exasperated because we're only watching wrestling now. Like I could tell you every Royal Rumble winner since 2003.

And Raw and SmackDown, thank God, have continued on, but they're playing without an audience. They're running the cards without a crowd. And I think the plan is for WrestleMania to be the same. So these kids are, they have cabin fever. They're jumping up on couches. They're getting yelled at for not doing homework. And they're wrestling. And it's just, they're really just banging heads.

Like, I don't know. I texted you. I was like, what are the over-unders on our wives crying? What are the over-unders on us crying? Just busting out with emotion. Yeah, it's bad. I don't know how we do it. Where do you go?

Do you walk around the block as a family? What do you do? My wife tries to walk every day. And on Sunday, after three straight days stuck with us, she said she was going on a power walk with her friend Krista, where apparently they stay seven feet apart from each other. Right. And she left at like 1.15 and came back at five. And she was like, I just wanted to walk. I just didn't want to be around you guys. I'm like, this is going great. I was like, don't blame me. It's Ben's fault. It's really

Ben. Ben is the root of all of this. So I have two parent corners about my daughter, actually. Okay. So one is she's one of those internet hypochondriacs.

You know, the people who like, oh, the side of my neck hurts. I'm going to go look up all the symptoms and then whatever the worst thing I read, I'm going to convince myself that I have it. So she's always been that. So the coronavirus, you can only imagine. She's read every single thing out there,

including the stupid thing you made fun of on social media about if you hold your breath for 10 seconds and you cough after you have the coronavirus, which the only person who would probably believe this is Donald Trump. I'm surprised he didn't say this in the press conference. It's fine. Just hold your breath.

We don't need tests. So I know she's doing this every six hours to see if she has it, even though we've told her over and over again so the hypochondriac thing I'll be fascinated to see how that plays out but anyway so she's her and her boyfriend have been together for eight months now it's it's probably the best most sanest relationship in in my life right now out of anybody I know and he was supposed to come over last Friday.

And this was right as the quarantine thing was really, really heating up. And on Thursday night, we were like, you know, it's probably not a good idea he comes over because everybody's saying that the only way to keep this from spreading is you got to self-quarantine. Yeah. And she reacted like it was an episode of The O.C.

where Misha Barton's dad said he couldn't see Ryan Atwood anymore. It was like one of those. Like really upset. I'm going to see him. It was like one of those. Right. All right. Well, has he been around people?

So anyway, he comes over on Friday and it's fine, whatever. But since then we haven't really had anybody. So now it's starting to, now she's starting to circle around though. Well, he hasn't been around anyone either. So why couldn't, you know, we have another date? Cause if, if neither of us had been around anybody, we couldn't give it to each other cause we haven't seen anybody. Obviously, we're not doing that. So now it's turning into Corona Romeo and Juliet, where she's going to be sneaking out of the house. This is now like Corona Romeo and Juliet.

It's now a Netflix movie that she would probably watch if it was available on Netflix. But her sneaking out of our house at three in the morning to see her boyfriend because the coronavirus is keeping them apart. I'm telling you, somebody's going to make this movie. Oh, yeah. It'll probably be based on her story. So my son has a girlfriend. So they're not allowed to see each other? Is that what you're doing?

I mean, starting this week, I don't think it's a great idea. I know. I don't think it's a great idea. I know. I don't know what to do either. We have to talk to her parents, his girlfriend's parents. Like, hey, who are you guys seeing? Who is anyone else? You're ordering food or you're going out to eat? Like, it's, oh, my God, to stay on top of this shit.

It's crazy. So you're letting your son have dates still? Well, not go out. Like, just go to her house or she comes there. So that're letting your son have dates still? Well, not go out. Like, just go to her house or she comes there. So that's it. Yeah. But if they can't leave, they can't go anywhere. What if they're both wearing hazmat suits?

That's not bad. I wouldn't mind that. Maybe that's how Corona Romeo and Juliet ends this is all so weird what the hell are we going to do it's July so you think the birth rate is going to go up

yeah you don't think so it might be a couple things birth rate and divorce you might have divorced parents you might have like a six month old getting you know splitting custody of like a six month old right I think all the rates are going up I think any sort of thing

good or bad goes up because we've never spent this much time together as families it really is crazy Sal hang in there you got at least you have to you get to finish your book As families. Yeah. It really is great. Well, Sal, Sal, hang in there. You got,

at least you have to, you get to finish your book. I can finish the book. Um, you could listen, uh, against all odds this week. We had Jeffrey Ross on, we had a very excited Harry who picked Tom Brady to the box at 60 to one.

And we had, I had those guys bet on the single sporting event, Nate, not even nationwide internationally. There's one sporting event you could bet on the single sporting event, not even nationwide, internationally. There's one sporting event you could bet on these sites, and it's a Turkish soccer game, Fenerbahce against Kayserespor. And it takes place Friday. And if you want to know the winner, listen to that.

Congrats. Sal, good job by you. Good job by you. All right, don't go yet. I'm going to read something that I wrote about the Patriots in 2001. But before we do that, wanted to give a reminder about all the good stuff we have on the Ringer Podcast Network.

We're going to have Ringer NFL shows, Ringer NBA shows, The Watch, The Big Picture. David Chang has a podcast this week. I think JJ Redick is going to do a podcast as well. On down the line, all of our Ringer Podcast Network shows. You know what they are. You can find them on Apple or on Spotify's awesome app where you can control the speeds for that.

Okay. So I was thinking a lot about how long Tom Brady has been in my life as a Patriots QB. And here's how long it's been. First of all, when he joined the team, I was living in Boston, Massachusetts. I was not at ESPN yet. When he got the starting job for the Patriots in September, 2001, a couple, I think it was probably a week after 9-11. I can't remember two weeks after 9-11. I had just started working at ESPN probably five, six months earlier than that. The first Super Bowl I ever covered was the Patriots winning the Super Bowl in New Orleans, which I wrote about all week. It was probably the greatest professional week of my life up to that point. And then you go all the way through. I moved to LA in November, 2002. I've had, I think, five dogs at this point, two kids. I got married, had multiple jobs, started the ringer, did a whole bunch of things. And Tom Brady was the quarterback the entire time.

I think what's gotten lost over the last 20 years is the Patriots became America's villain and basically the Duke University basketball team of the NFL and the one that everybody wanted to beat the thing that got lost was how bad the Patriots were before Tom Brady took

over as the starting quarterback so I'm going to read this piece that I wrote before they played the Raiders on that Saturday night that everyone remembers as the tuck roll game, except for the Patriot fans who remember it as the snow game. I wrote this piece for page two. I'm going to read it now, and then we're going to end the podcast. So here's that piece. It's called Sad Saga of a Loyal Patriots Fan. Now here's a sentence I rarely get to type. New England has been seized by Super Bowl fever.

Which more exciting, the fact our beloved Patriots are playing host to an AFC divisional playoff game against the Evil Raiders on Saturday night or the fact we're two victories away from the big game. Frankly, it's a toss-up. Parentheses. I mean, the Super Bowl?

The Super Bowl? Sweet Jesus. You have to understand the Patriots have always been the Fredo Corleone of the sports scene in Boston, aka the black sheep, the member of the family who was always a little different, the lovable screw-up, the one for whom we always made excuses. With a franchise like the Celtics, we have fond memories such as, hey, remember that time

Bird stole the ball from Isaiah? Or hey, remember when Havlicek nailed the bank shot to give us the lead in the Triple OT game? With the Patriots, the memories are more along the lines of, remember the time when Irving Fryer missed the 86 AFC Championship game

after he was cut with a knife in an incident involving his wife? So during those rare occasions when everything comes together and the Patriots emerge as a Super Bowl contender, which has only happened three other times in my lifetime as a Pats fan, people around here basically flip out. Look at the Pats. Holy back row. Here come the Pats. Can you believe this? That's what happens when expectations are whittled down over the years, when a franchise becomes so consistently inept

that you can't even hold a grudge against them anymore. Is there a rare dynamic in sports these days than unconditional love? It isn't like they made it easy on us. For the past 30 years, the Patriots have played in Foxborough, a hole-in-the-wall town about 45 minutes from Boston. The actual stadium, shrewdly named Foxborough Stadium, looks like a concrete warehouse and has all the charm of a nuclear power plant.

The seminal Foxborough highlight probably happened on opening day in 1970, when the bathroom plumbing wasn't finished in time for the first game, so fans were encouraged to relieve themselves in the unfinished bathrooms. Good times. During the glory years, parentheses, did we even have any glory years? The team was owned by the Sullivan family who started the franchise during the AFL's inception in 1960, then held onto it through the mid eighties when they were submarine by the Jackson five. I'm not making this up. The Sullivan family had decided to fund the Jackson Brothers victory tour, which made Manimal look like a raging success. Needless to say, they went bankrupt and had to sell the team. And the Pats were passed around for a few years like an unwanted stepchild, nearly moving to St. Louis in 1993 before local paper magnate Robert Kraft stepped in and saved

the team. By that time, barely anyone even cared. Not me, I cared. I fell for the Patriots as a four-year-old tyke in the mid-70s, partly because they were the hometown team, partly because I liked the red uniforms, and partly because I took a sudden liking to star whiteout Randy Vitaja, who was fast white and little, just like me. There were other Patriot fans my age, but not as many as you would think. Because of the legacy of losing, many New England kids adopted the Steelers, Dolphins, or Cowboys to be associated with the winner. Bastards. Things changed in 75 when the upstart Pats rolled off a slew of wins and headed to Oakland for a rare playoff game. And they were winning the damn thing, at least until referee Ben Dreith called

a ridiculous, I repeat, ridiculous, roughing the passer penalty on Sugar Bear Hamilton on third and 17 with the Pats leading by three in the final minutes, no less, to give the Raiders a second life. Oakland drove down the field and scored a late touchdown for the victory, eventually beating a banged up Steelers squad in the AFC Championship game and an inferior Vikings team in the Super Bowl. I still remember the tears running down my face. We were better that year. Tragically, the Pats became the best team that couldn't win a Super Bowl, preceding the Eagles in the late 80s and the Bills in the early 90s. Every year, magazines and experts tab them as a Super Bowl favorite. Every year, something submarine them.

In 76, they played a monster schedule, couldn't even sneak into the playoffs. During the 77 season, a contract holdout by all pro linemen John Hanna and Leon Grace sent them into a tailspin. Coach Chuck Fairbanks bolted for a college job hours before the final game of the 78 regular season, a Monday night game no less, and a reeling Patriots team was shellacked in the playoffs by Earl Campbell's Oilers. Suddenly the window was closing. Things turned irrevocably during the exhibition season in 79 when a vicious tackle by Oakland safety Jack Tatum paralyzed star receiver Daryl Stingley. One of the three or four worst moments of my life as a sports fan. Understandably, the team sleepwalked through the

season. Within two years, the Pats were 2-14. And that's how I was weaned on the New England Patriots. Since then, my life as a Patriots fan can be separated into six eras. The first era, the lovable losers, 1981 to 86. The aforementioned two and 14 season set the tone. We unearthed new ways to squander close games every week. There was one heartbreaker in Buffalo when Joe Ferguson completed a winning Hail Mary touchdown pass

to Roland Hooks. A winning Hail Mary pass. When does that ever happen? We ended up with the first pick of the draft during a down year for college talent when the obvious choice was someone named Ken Sims. Other teams will get Tony Dorsett or John Elway with the number one pick. We got Ken Sims. That season was followed by a series of close but no cigar seasons

where it's always seemed to end cruelly in Miami, always in December, always with a playoff berth on the line. Uwe von Schamen, Bob Greasy, Delvin Williams, not more. Always someone different finding a way to beat us year after year. And then something weird happened. The Pats made another playoff run in 85, only this time the momentum kept building.

And KG veteran Steve Grogan, aka The Groag, came off the bench to carry the team and the momentum kept building. And KG veteran Steve Grogan, aka The Grogue, came off the bench to carry the team and the winds kept coming. And good God, they captured an AFC wildcard spot and they were winning games in New York and Miami and Oakland to reach their first ever Super Bowl. Still feels surreal even now. Nobody thought they could win in Miami. I mean nobody. Imagine the most improbable sports moment of your life, then magnify it by, and pretzels, ready to pass out from anticipation. Little did I know I would endure the most agonizing three hours of my sports life. The Super Bowl shuffle, Eason and Grogan getting sacked roughly 334 times, the freaking fridge scoring a touchdown, just agonizing. By the fourth quarter, I was trying

to stab myself with a pretzel rod. Two days later, as Patriot fans were still coming to grips with the grisly end to the season, the Boston Globe revealed that a handful of Patriots were using drugs during the season, and that some players threw a cocaine party during Super Bowl week, giving birth to a legitimate drug scandal that tainted every fond memory of the season. And then Larry and the 86 Celts won the title. The Sox made the series a few months later. And that Pat season just kind of faded away, leading us to the second era. Same old, same old. 87 to 92. If this were an episode of E! True Hollywood Story, remember that show? The announcer would be saying, coming up next, Irving Fryer's life continues to unravel

into the hazy netherworld of drugs and domestic violence as the E-True Hollywood New England Patriots story continues. Anyway, this was the time when the Patriots made that leap from local also ran to full-fledged black sheep. First, the talented 86 team fell apart in Denver during the playoffs, scarred by Super Bowl XX. Eason lost his confidence and started taking shotgun snaps from the fetal position just to save everyone some time. Hogg Hanna retired and we weren't sure what was more depressing, the fact that Hanna had retired or the fact that the greatest

Patriot of all time was an offensive guard. Can any other franchise make that claim? There was more. Raymond Berry resigned as head coach in 88, prompting confusion because some of us believe the Pats had been propping up his corpse on the sideline. Local icon Doug Flutie crossed the picket line and became a scab QB during the 88 strike. Then he hung around and stunk the joint up the following season before fleeing to Canada. Grogan refused to retire, enduring a barrage of injuries and becoming the first QB ever to start a game while wearing a neck roll. Swear to God, I posted the picture on my Twitter feed, actually. Two All-Pros had their careers cut short because of injury, Craig James and Don

Blackman. Before the 89 season, the Pats lost three key starters in the final exhibition game this season, ending injuries. It was like someone had thrown a black cat into the clubhouse. The guy who represented that era better than anyone was Friar, the number one overall pick in the 84 draft and an electric wide receiver when they could keep him on the field.

His drug problem didn't help. Neither did that squabble with his wife for the time he left the game at halftime with an injury and subsequently drove into a telephone pole or the time he and teammate Hartley Dykes were beaten up at a Providence nightclub. All that stuff happened. In classic Patriots fashion, Friar found God and turned his career around. But it happened in Miami, not New England. During the late 80s and early 90s, when they couldn't win a game, crowds dwindled

and the Pats officially became the troubled New England Patriots. You might remember Boston Herald reporter Lisa Olsen sexually harassed by some Patriot players in the locker room during the 90s season, igniting a year-long scandal. Just a dreadful time. I remember wincing in college whenever someone asked if I was a Patriot fan. Have you ever had that feeling when you actually wanted to hide the fact that you rooted for a particular team? By this point,

four things were really killing me about the Patriots. In the late 80s, Nintendo and Tecmo Bowl had taken video game football to the next level and the Patriots were always terrible. When EA Sports started making the Madden games in the early 90s, same thing. You could always count on the video pats to suck. Here's another thing. We always had the second rate announcers. They should have just changed the guy in the helmets in the late 80s from Pat Patriot to

Beasley Reese. I don't know if you remember Beasley Reese, but he was the worst announcer of the late 80s. I don't think Dick Enberg and Merlin Olsen ever set foot in Foxborough. They were the Romo Nats at that time. Third thing, just a parade of forgettable coaches over the years. Ron Earhart, the Pete Carroll of his generation. It's funny, I wrote this in 2001. It was a Pete Carroll shot, the Pete Carroll at the Super Bowl. Oh, well. Ron Meyer, who came from the college ranks and pulled a Patino. The post-Super Bowl Ray Barry, who made flipping a two-headed coin seem unpredictable. Rod Rust, who might or may not have been embalmed.

We're still not sure. Dick McPherson, a nice guy and a glorified cheerleader. None of them ever went on to coach another NFL team. Not a joke. Ron Earhart, Ron Meyer, Ray Barry, Rod Rustig, McPherson, the Patriots were their last job. Here's the fourth thing. Nothing was worse than draft days when you were praying the Pats wouldn't screw things up. And they usually did. They traded down from number 16 in 84 and San Francisco used that first round pick to select Jerry Rice. They took Hartley Dykes over

Andre Rison. They took Reggie Dupart over Neil Anderson. They passed up Junior Sayon, Cortez Kennedy, traded down and picked Chris Singleton and Ray Agnew. My favorite year was 92, when they traded down because the draft was rich in offensive linemen. Only some of them were snapped up early. So they traded back up to pick Eugene Chung,

who they could have had originally, and somehow ended up with fewer picks than they started with. Astounding. Here's a story that sums everything up. During the final week of the 92 season, WEI's Eddie Unleman, Kevin Mannix, and Rod Hobson were trying to pick an MVP for the Pats season

on their radio show, a season in which the Pats had finished 1-15. They finally decided on tight end Marv Cook just because he submitted the most consistent season out of anyone. Marv Cook! They were dead serious. Around that same time, the franchise nearly moved to St. Louis before a chain of fortunate events kept them in New England. Too complicated to describe here. And then something weird happened. The third era, rejuvenation, 1993-19 1996. Bill Parcells inexplicably decided to coach our team. Why? Why would he come here? Nobody knew. We were perplexed. Terrible franchise,

snakebitten, unstable, devoid of talent, no history, meager fan support, and yet Parcells wasn't phased in the least. We were like a high school nerd who can't figure out what to say when the class bombshell comes over to ask, want to go with a movie to me tonight? Season ticket sales started climbing. The team dumped its trademark red jerseys and went with a generic silver blue look, a ceremonial cutting in the ties to the sordid past. Parcells drafted Drew Bledsoe over Rick Meyer with the first pick in 93 finally a blue chipper we found ourselves falling for our new coach the way he carried himself his professionalism his goofy press conferences those okay all right nuances his arbeckian aura of greatness this was new territory for us of course the team stumbled to a 1 and 11 start before winning its last four games

including a bird-like comeback by Bledsoe in the final home game against Miami. That was fucking awesome. They won their last seven games to make the 94 playoffs, an invigorating run that ended cruelly in Cleveland. Vinny Testaverde, Bill Belichick. With the Celtics, Bruins, and Sox all stumbling,

with Parcells emerging as our most mesmerizing sports figure, with Bledsoe poised to fill that Russell Byrd ore void. The Pats had finally shed their black sheep status or so we thought. Boston Sports Radio Station turned into Pats Central. There was actually a waiting list for season tickets. Everyone felt like we had stepped in an alternate universe.

After an off season in 95, they sunk into the Super Bowl the following year, giving Green Bay a legitimate scare before fading in the final quarter. You forget, Desmond Howard's kickoff return broke open a close game in the second half. And the fact they kicked off to him in the first place is a story for another time.

It was another one of those how the hell did this happen moments. We had a good team that season. Not quite a Super Bowl team. Everyone knew it. But the 97 season, that was the one we marked on our calendar all along. The fifth year of the Parcells-Bledsoe era. The one with a number of stars entering their primes.

The one that had always been looming as the year. Never happened. Angry over a war room snub during the 96 draft when Kraft overruled him and demanded the team take Terry Glenn in the first round. And a grieved Parcells contemplated a move to the Jets during the late stages of the 96 season, even leaking his problems with Kraft to a newspaper during Super Bowl week, a definite distraction. Within a few weeks, Parcells was headed to New York.

Kraft was demanding draft picks Patriot fans were devastated and the ensuing circus overshadowed one simple fact the Patriots came within one or two plays

of winning a Super Bowl that's another Patriots tradition we never get time to savor the moment that leads us to the next era same old same old

97 to 99 the wheels came off Kraft hired good natured upbeat San Fran assistant Pete Carroll as head coach. The classic case of a player's coach replacing a disciplinarian. And within months, players were diving into mosh pits,

missing practices, getting in car accidents and fistfights. Even though they were a consensus Super Bowl contender, the Pats kept making mistakes in big moment and Carroll's goofy, I'm jacked and pumped routine was bordering on Saturday and live sketch territory. One of my readers at the time joked, the Pete Carroll era finally answers the question of why Fredo has never given control of the Corleone family, which led me to start calling him Coach Fredo. Once again, the window is closing. Blessed with the most talent in the AFC, the 97 season ended ignominiously in Pittsburgh

with a 7-6 playoff loss marred by injuries and bad luck. Parcells stole Curtis Martin away, giving New England an extra first-round pick in classic Patriots fashion. The pass left Vonnie Holiday and Randy Moss on the board and somehow ended up with Tabucky Jones and Robert Edwards. In fact, Kraft's handpicked front office botched a staggering amount of boot chip picks from 97 to 99, 13 in the top three rounds, including five number ones. And only center Damian Woody and Jones

contributed significantly to this year's playoff team. Things kept snowballing. The 98 team got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Jets beat us twice, made the AFC championship game. Are you kidding? Undaunted. Kraft brought Carroll back for a third season, which ended up being even worse than the previous year.

We blamed Kraft for bungling a potential dynasty. We blame Parcells for bailing ship. We blame Bledsoe for never living up to his considerable potential. We blame Bobby Greer in the front office for screwing up those draft picks. We were bitter, disgusted, hostile. We were Patriot fans again. That leads us to the next era. Signs of life, 2000 and 2001.

Give Kraft credit. He learned from his mistakes. After firing Carolyn Greer, he landed Bill Belichick as a coach and gave him say in personnel decisions along with right-hand man Scott Piolli. And it took a full season, but this year's Patriots team ended up sneaking up on us, just like the 85 team. Nobody even saw them coming. And that's where we stand today.

A suddenly rejuvenated franchise with a new quarterback, hungry veterans, young players with something to prove, and a bright coach who gives us a fighting chance every week. The rebirth of the Patriots is symbolized by CMGI Field, a state-of-the-art facility being built next door to Foxborough Stadium. Loads of luxury boxes, club seats, every seat faces the 50-yard line, chairs on every seat, you name it. Unless Baltimore beats Pittsburgh, Saturday's game doubles as the final Patriots game ever played at Foxborough Stadium, an endearing dump with absolutely no historical significance whatsoever. I have two memories of the place. One happened in the mid-90s when my buddy Jeff and I sat in our seats for a Broncos-Pats game. Within two plays, literally two

plays, the kids sitting next to Jeff started puking all over the place. And we had to sit with our feet stuck in the kids' vomit for the rest of the game. The other memory happened during the 10-year anniversary tribute to the 86 Super Bowl team, a halftime ceremony in which one,

Tony Eason was lustily booed by a sellout crowd one final time. That happened. And two, a commemorative 1985 AFC champs flag was raised, only it got stuck halfway up the flagpole where it flapped limply for the rest of the game. I swear to God, this happened. That's Foxborough Stadium.

That's Patriots football. Those are my memories. So think about me when you're watching the Pats on Saturday. Maybe you root for the Bengals, Seahawks, Lions, Jets, Falcons, Cardinals, or Titans so you can totally sympathize. Maybe you're just a casual fan. Maybe you don't care at all, but the fact remains, my Black Sheep football team is three wins away from winning the Superbowl. And if you don't mind, I thought I would savor the moment. Who knows?

I might not be here again for a while. So I wrote that before the snow game in 2001. Tom Brady won 30 playoff games. He won six Superbowls. I think he won 219 regular season games, 13 first round buys, the greatest quarterback of all time, an unbelievable 20 years. And if you go back to that column that I wrote, completely improbable. It would be the equivalent of if the Browns, starting right now, ripped off the best 20-year stretch in the history of football. It makes no sense. I've stopped trying to figure it out a long time ago.

Tom Brady, thanks for passing through my life. You're the best quarterback I've ever seen. I can't believe things worked out for the Patriots for even one Super Bowl, much less six. Good luck in the next stop. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Thanks to SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe is everything you need

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Go today and it's free. That's simplisafe.com slash BS. SimpliSafe security camera, normally $100. Go today and it's free. That's simplisafe.com slash BS, SimpliSafe with two S. Good luck to everybody out there. Please take care of yourselves. And I'm not sure if we're coming back with another BS podcast, but we will definitely have a rewatchable.

It's doing Castaway later in the week. Stay safe. Read the paper. Read online. Read all the news do what you have to do to help stop this pandemic and if I don't talk to you on this feed

until Sunday night I will see you on Sunday night if not I'll be back Thursday but take care of yourselves I want to see them on the way. So I don't have.