The Bill Simmons Podcast - Sports Gambling Is Legal (!) With Cousin Sal, and Ethan Hawke Breaks Down Every Fun Movie He Ever Made | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 365)

Episode Date: May 14, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons calls up Cousin Sal to celebrate the Supreme Court's ruling on sports gambling in America. They talk about why this is so important, wonder what form sports gambling will take at places like 7-Eleven, and speculate on who the first person involved with a sports gambling scandal will be (2:50). Then, Bill sits down with actor Ethan Hawke to talk about the pre-internet era, sports movies, working with Robin Williams and Denzel Washington, quitting smoking, falling in love on set, and Ethan's new film, 'First Reformed,' written and directed by Paul Schrader. Then Ethan talks about how he lost his Knicks tickets, the progressiveness of the NBA, and accepting LeBron's greatness (23:05). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by zip recruiter. I really, really hope that zip recruiter can help get the red Sox a couple set up guys. I do not trust this bullpen other than Craig Kimbrell. Help us out. Zip recruiter, 80% of employers who post a job on zip recruiter,

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It's launching this week. And we should mention Cousin Sal's coming up in a second because, I mean, it's one of the greatest days of our lives. But Against All Odds has now taken a new form because it looks like gambling's going to be legal in America, state by state. We'll talk about that with him in a second. We'll also talk to Ethan Hawk, who came in on Friday and one of the most fun podcasts I've done in a while. If you loved the Before Sunset movies, Sunrise?

Sunrise is the first one, Before Sunrise. If you love that trilogy, if you love Reality Bites, if you love Denzel, I mean, this has something for everybody. If you like movies, I would implore you to listen to this one because it's really good. Hey, last but not least, Zach Lowe and I are doing a home and home. I'm on his podcast today. So if you listen to the low post or if you're a subscriber, it'll be in there today. If you're not a subscriber, go subscribe to Zach Lowe's podcast. We're talking Celts, Cavs, Rockets, Warriors, and a whole bunch more.

And then he's coming on mine next Monday. So stay tuned for that. Coming up, Cousin Sal, Ethan Hawke. But first, Pearl Jam. All right, on the line, a guy that I have been doing a podcast with for 11 years. On Monday, it's going back to the fall of 2007 on ESPN. We started playing Guess the Lines on then the BS Report, then we brought it over to the BS Podcast. He now hosts his own gambling podcast, On the Ringer, Against All Odds.

He's introduced the degenerate trifecta to the world. Together we have lost, I can't even fathom how much money. And now we can lose money legally, Cousin Sal. What a day. This is the greatest day of our lives. Yes, yes. You're looking at it the wrong way. It's not how much money we've lost. It's how much we are now going to lose because gambling has been legalized by the Supreme court. God bless them. So robe wearing geniuses.

I knew we liked the Supreme court. So what this law really is, is every state can decide on their own, whether they want to legalize gambling or not. And they would be foolish not to because of the taxes that they can get out of it. California. I did some, I did some quick research right after this happened. California is, is the bill is out. They're like ready to roll on it. And I went to England for the Olympics in 2012. And there were these parlors all over the place, William Hill and a couple other ones. And you just kind of walked in and they had all the odds there and you did a betting slip. It was no different than lottery or Keno or any of the stuff we see here at some of the convenience stores. And I remember texting you and being like, I can't believe we don't have this.

These people are just walking in and betting on freaking soccer and the 100-yard dash. This is crazy. Why can't we do this? Yeah, I'm excited. We're going to be able to run into a 7-Eleven, grab a parlay card, and I'm going to be able to call you and say,

hey, what do you think of Joey Chestnut over 77 and a half hot dogs with Roger T Treaderer to win the Wimbledon? This is the greatest thing, and no one will laugh at us. We're no longer the nerds. We're no longer the outcasts. We're no longer – I do worry that we're going to lose a little more of our – and I have to reevaluate my financial planning for the rest of the last 10 years. It's a good idea.

I don't think, though, is now that California legalized marijuana, is Snoop Dogg any higher than he was in 2003? No. I don't think so. No. Right. Yeah, the marijuana didn't bring down the state of California. It might have brought down Nephew Kyle,

but it didn't bring down the state of California. I'm here. No, he's here. We had an early podcast today. See, he's fine. The, uh, the, the, so here's what I'm really both delighted about, excited about and worried about. So there's like a, there's a seven 11, probably two minutes from my house. Right. Is this going to be one of those things where I'm driving home from work and I just am like, and all of a sudden I'm in the 7-Eleven parking lot because I want to see what's going on with the February NBA

action. I'm actually kind of worried. No, don't be worried. Okay, good. No, we're going to, first of all, it's, it's, it's never, listen, we have access. We do it over text. Yeah. We do it legally.

We do it sometimes illegal, but whatever. It's, that's how how that's how it's going to be worth it to any of us so it'll be the same situation like we had yesterday where i was texting you in house saying the celtics odds are off the the odds should be even for this series and we should jump on this because celtics Warriors is plus 380 for finals. And we have this huge Cavs Warriors bet that we made in like September. Yeah. It's like plus 120.

And you were like, no, no, we're golden. Let's ride this. Right. And you talked me out of it. Now, in fairness, you did point out all the other mistakes I've made during the playoffs. You're not allowed to give us seven straight losers. No, that's not true. No, I didn't give you losers. You guys, you didn't let me take the Celtics

when I wanted to take the Celtics. I don't think you're allowed to do that. I didn't give you seven straight losers. I gave some winners, too. What about Philly and five against Miami? All right, Philly and five was the winner. Yeah, but Philly to win the East was supposed to be our hedge against this Cavs to win the East thing, and now the Celtics

look like I don't know. I can't even speak right now. I'm so excited about the standpoint thing. I got to say with the Philly thing though, especially watching the Cavs yesterday and how easily the Celtics were able to just do whatever they wanted in that game. Now that game was a little bit of an aberration,

but it really did make me appreciate how good Philly was. The Celtics at no point in the last four games, even had a double-digit lead, I don't think. They might have been up. Maybe they were up 10, but they had to scratch and claw. And then you go back in that series and you think, like, they were down 22 in game two. They were down five in overtime with, two minutes left in, in game three. And by the way, if the guy hadn't stepped on the line,

they lose the game in regulation. Right. And then in game five, they were down four with 90 seconds left. And if Redick hit the three with a minute left, they lose game. I'm sorry, game five.

So that is basically five plays that decided three of the five games in the series that swung them. And I think my point is, I think Philly was really good. And I bet Philly was watching that game last night going, God, we would have killed the Cavaliers. Yeah. You know, so. I don't know.

I sent you something like, you know, when LeBron loses game one, the last time he's lost game one, the last seven times he's won the series. But I will say I was a little surprised. Cavs still favored to win the series minus 150. I think at worst, this goes seven. Boston's such a good home team, no matter what you want to say about LeBron rising from the

dead in some of these games. If you have Boston plus 130 going into game seven, you could do what we never do in hedge, I would think. This can't go any less than seven, I think. Yeah. And that was a bet that we discussed all week. And of course never did anything with,

but it was seven games was plus one 10 and it could go either way. I think the calves are in a lot of trouble in this series. And the reason that the odds are not reflecting the talent, the overall talent difference between the two teams is because LeBron has now turned into the Cowboys or the Packers or some of the teams we see in the NFL, right? Where the Celtics should be favored now. They have home court and they're up 1-0 and they dominated game one.

They should at least be like a minus 150, but that's the power of LeBron. People are like, ah, LeBron will figure it out. And he might. I mean, I guess because they're favored in every game and I guess the Cleveland's favored by a point in game two. I mean, it's not rational is my point. We've seen, as we've discussed a million times, and we're going to be discussing legally now,

as soon as California happens, like the books, Vegas, whoever's doing these spreads, their job is just to get an equal amount of money. And if they perceive that the power of LeBron is so ingrained in people at this point that even if they're staring at facts in the face, they're still going to ignore it because LeBron's on the other team.

I feel like that's where we are. It's a little like the Patriots-Eagles Super Bowl where that line was too high. Remember, we were like, this is a three-point game. Why are the Patriots getting an extra point and a half? It was just because it was Belichick and Brady. But that line should have been three. Now I get to have these conversations with you in a 7-11.

Do you feel like, is this a small victory lap for us? I love giving myself credit when I don't deserve it. I'm trying to remember in 2007, now it's like Scott Van Pelt gets credit for bad beats. We were doing bad beats last decade. Right, exactly. Who else was there? Who was at the forefront?

We're not George Washington, but we might be like Thomas Jefferson forfferson for this no right no we are uh i mean we're at least chris christie right i mean god bless that fat bastard he got this through i'm gonna sell i'm i need to send something i need to send another arrangement with everything covered with chocolate his way because he is the man he could rule our state he could rule our country for all I care. What a legend. This is a huge thing. He's legendary. Yes. Yes. He stepped up in the biggest, biggest way possible.

So when we started- I went back, I was in college. I was like peddling parlay tickets for a local hood. I was like, I had brass knuckles on once. I had to chase down a guy like this. This is crazy. This brings it all together. Like this legitimizes everything we've been talking about. Like you said, for years. And I might cry.

I'm going to be honest. I might cry right now. Well, we met, I remember Jimmy flew me out September, 2002 to try to try to hire me for the show. And you and I were hanging out in the office and we, we didn't know each other at all.

And I think you were under the instructions from Jimmy, like just be nice to the Simmons kid. We're trying to hire him. And you didn't even really need to, because within 20 seconds we were talking about whatever that football, whatever the weekend's football and parlays and teases. And we just, we fell in man love immediately.

I moved to LA. We would, we, we shared an office with the legendary Tony Barbieri, aka Jake Bird. And you and I had desks next to each other. I would be on weird emails and sites. All of a sudden I would look up, you'd just be standing over behind me, reading whatever email I was sending. I would leave my desk. You would walk in and then send emails to other people from Pretended BB. But we would just sit there and talk about gambling all the time.

Yeah. We just had a lot of time to kill. Do you remember? I mean, of course you remember this. And here's why it's so important. Because people are reluctant to gamble on these offshore accounts. Because God forbid, what are you going to do if you win the money?

What if you win $12,000, $15,000 and then you have to chase it down? Then you have to find out something about this entity that you love that you may not want to know about, you know? So you have to, you have to, what are you going to do? Are you going to fly to Antigua and chase down this ghost company for 15 grand? That goes away now. Remember all that nonsense? I forgot what the bet was, but you bet like something.

No, I remember. Tell me what it was, but we won't mention which account it was because it's still off the line. No, they know who they are. They know who they are, those scumbags. What was the bet? It was a basketball game, and instead of minus nine, they put plus nine for the favorite. So we basically bet whatever the max was on the plus nine.

Yeah. And then they switched it to the right line. So we bet the other team at plus nine. Yeah, we hedged on it. We hedged on it. We had both sides. They only counted the hedge, which of course lost. Right.

They voided the first bet because they said it was a mistake. And then they didn't void the second bet. And then the second bet lost. And we lost all this money when they was a mistake. And then they didn't void the second bet. And then the second bet lost. And we lost all this money when they made the mistake. And then they wouldn't give us the money back. But this was 2003. And it was basically like that Ben Affleck, Justin Timberlake movie. What was that movie, Runner Runner?

Geely? No, I don't know. Oh, that was something else. You had some other thing, though, where you took the field. There was some kind of weird bet where you took the field, and then they claimed that, no, this team wasn't part of the field because we ended up adding them in the teams that you could bet. I can't even remember what it was.

No, I think it was like a Super Bowl touchdown bet or something. It was the field, but they claimed. Was it? Yeah, it was something shady. But these days are over. Now I get to argue with some random dude behind the counter at 7-Eleven or Store 24. Exactly. It's great.

It's so exciting. It's the greatest. It's the greatest. First of the morning. Who else was in there, though, in the early? I feel like it was us, Hank Goldberg. Remember Hank? Hammer and Hank was just on there forever.

Yeah, sure. Some of those dudes from the 90s, Stu Feiner, all those terrible gambling shows, those infomercial shows. The Pro Line was the greatest. Yeah, Stu Feiner. Jim Feist, was he another one? Yeah. All those dudes. They're all in there.

And then, you know, at ESPN, people can't believe this now, but I wanted to write a football gambling column for them every week and they wouldn't let me. They wouldn't let me talk about gambling at all. And then eventually I scrapped. And then when I came back in 04, um, they would only let me do it for the playoffs. And then in 04, they allowed me to start doing it every week. Yeah. But they were like, no, we can't go near this. This is the, we can't touch this with a 10 foot pole. And then within 10 years you were on sports center giving picks. I was on sports center, but even then they were just wanted to dip their toe in the water. And I've told this story before, but I was in the two years I was on, I was like 12, three and one with my best bets in 2014 and 2015.

I was 13, 13, three and one. They let me do an extra week and no one, they were hiding me. They didn't want anything to do with it. It is true. Yahoo was writing stories about it. I was like, hey, you're getting scooped by your own competitor here. And then I closed the door and they told me, like, listen, you can't. We paid $5 billion for the worst game of the week.

We can't have the NFL mad at us. We have to kind of do this tongue in cheek. And all I have to say is I'm not available, ESPN. That's it. That ship has sailed. Simmons and I are on the bigger and better things. Well, one of us is Thomas Jefferson. The other is John Quincy Adams.

I don't know where we are, but I feel like we're the founding fathers. I will be George Jefferson. I feel like I'm opening a bunch of dry cleaners in downtown New York city. I, before you go, I'd be remiss if we didn't give our top five candidates of people who are going to be involved in the first legalized gambling scandal. Number one for me is the long snapper.

They make the least amount of money. All they need to do is fuck up two snaps and swing a game and they could have a hundred friends put on, you know, 1500 each and just everybody swear each other's secrecy. The long snapper is the most dangerous right now, right? Oh, I hadn't thought about this. This is really good though. Thank you. Thank you.

Excellent. Number two, I would say is in, in football, theeman who's back who could just call pass interference on every play, basically. That guy, I think, is a threat. I mean, the NFL referees aren't even working full-time jobs, right? Right. They're paid like half the time. Yeah, they may have to tighten that up a little bit now. That's interesting. And then I think left-handed relievers I'm really worried about.

Left-handed relievers? That's pretty specific. Do you spot left-handed? Well, because they always make the minimum. They come in, they only have to pitch to like one or two batters, and they could just wreak havoc in the eighth inning of a game. They're always in in the high leverage, you know, late innings, guys on base.

I can see them doing something. Who else do you have? Anybody? The guy that mops up the sweat in the NBA. He could maybe have an edge on something on the court. Oh, the guy who could hear stuff? That's interesting. Yeah. Maybe, I don't know, soccer referees are always suspect.

Oh, I just assume they're gambling in the games anyway. I didn't even add them. I just assumed they're corrupt. That's an excellent thing to dive deeper into. Yeah, I'd have to figure that out. By the way, Sal. Don't count us out either. All your conversations with GMs the day before the last regular season game

that we've never been able to capitalize on. With this one sitting everybody. Yeah, that all said, everyone's playing. College, I think, is another dangerous one. Oh, yeah. Somebody's going to go haywire in college. You know, they may now have to pay some of these college players.

The money might just be too much where they can't even, they themselves, the league's NCAA they can't even, they themselves, the league's NCAA, can't even deny it, I don't think. I know you and I both hate paying taxes. Yeah.

If we had like a successful 2019 or whenever this starts and it's like, oh, I've won, you know, $12,500 on sports gaming this year. I have to pay taxes on that? That would be huge.

I'd be really proud. Yeah, I'd be really proud. I'd be like, just tell my business guy, like, hey, man, I had a big year. We got to factor it in. Factor it in on your taxes. Whatever the cut is for the $12,500, the 1099 for him. Wow, what a day, Sal. I'm getting choked up, man.

We did it, buddy. We did it. It's a 15-year odyssey for us. Yeah. And don't be greedy, leagues. These leagues are threatening to take 1% when, you know, football, for God's sakes, to pretend that gambling has a sparked interest in the sport,

and now you're going to take 1% and you're going to tighten it up to such a position where it's not going to be worth it to legalize gambling. Don't do it. Now's not the time to be greedy, please. And we're open for business for any new gambling site that's legal in whatever state, if they want to advertise on a podcast. You know, some podcasts get snobby about it.

We're not snobby. Yes. If you have a good product. We're not snobby. Yes. If you have a good product, we're happy to be involved. Cuz it's out. Take your victory lap, pour champagne on yourself. And then against all odds on Wednesday,

you're going to do a mega show and maybe even have somebody who understands the law who might explain. Yeah, we'll have someone explain why we should be this excited or maybe if we should be at all. I don't know.

But yeah, someone, we're going to have someone talk about the preak this excited or maybe if we should be at all. I don't know. But yeah, someone. We're going to have someone talk about the preakness and lots, lots, a lot of good stuff. All right. The cuz, good job by you. Good job by us. All right, buddy. All right. See you later.

Hey, before we get to Ethan Hawke, the captain will not rest until he has brought his adventurous spirit and delicious rum to every corner of America. Original spice, coconut, pineapple, white, black grapefruit, whatever you want. The captain loves anyone who learns how to mix like a captain. Who else can be the captain this week than Brad Stevens, the president? The man who figured out how to beat a more talented Philadelphia 76ers team in five games. I still don't know how he did it. Pulled out of bounds plays and weird defensive adjustments and rode 20 year old dudes and did everything there was to do. Everyone went nuts that he didn't win this coach of the year award, which actually wasn't the real coach of the year award.

It was just this random award that coaches voted on. I actually think he is going to win the coach of the year. And if he doesn't, it's a travesty. That one is voted on by, I think, 125 media members. But then goes into this Cleveland series. He figures out how to do switches when, you know, all Cleveland's entire offense is LeBron. Somebody's sending a pick for LeBron. LeBron getting a switch. And then it's either a mismatch or LeBron, somebody's sending a pick for LeBron, LeBron getting a switch,

and then it's either a mismatch or LeBron can take the dude. And the Celts threw this wrinkle out in which Kevin O'Connor explained beautifully on the ringer today, where they, as soon as that switch happened, the guy, the smaller guy in the mismatch would get, somebody would run over and they would do a switcheroo before they could really set it up. And it was just brilliant. And then they were attacking them. They're running on everything, building a wall to prevent LeBron to get to the basket and just had so many different adjustments and tweaks.

It was incredible to watch. And it's been incredible to have him around. So Zach Lowe and I, in his podcast today, we go into detail on the Celtics and Cavs and a whole bunch of more, but I wanted to give my man Brad Stevens the captain of

the week because not since the early days of Belichick can I remember a coach swinging the underdog thing like this. This should not be happening. This Celtics team is really talented, but they are just too young and too undermanned to be doing this. He says he doesn't want credit for what's going on here, but they are just too young and too under man to be doing this. And he says

he doesn't want credit for what's going on here, but he deserves it. So do the eight guys who are carrying this team and playing their asses off. And the home crowd has been incredible. It's been great to watch. Who knows? They might make the finals. Brad Stevens, you're my captain of the week. Coming up, here's the interview I did with Ethan Hawke. Ethan Hawke is here. We're taping this on Friday, late afternoon, May 11th, something like that. It's running next week.

Yeah. I've been waiting to do this with you. This is exciting. I said to you when you walked in, I feel like I've known you my whole life almost. Like since Dead Poets Society. What was that, 1989? Exactly that.

And then you just continue to make movies that I enjoy. And now we're 30 years later. It's my job. But when I saw, I was reading somewhere and it said, your daughter's going to be in Stranger Things. And I was like, wow, that makes me feel old. That was my reaction because we're like a year apart. It's just reality.

I mean, it's important to always remind yourself when you have that thought that the option the alternative would be to not be alive you know you can't like stay still right you can't like live in formaldehyde and it is weird i get this myself i don't know if i'm allowed to you know these things are so weird but so my daughter had her first day on stranger things the other day yeah and and uh guess it was playing in the movie theater in the background of her first day at work oh because they go backwards well no no it's there's a there's a poster at the movie theater what was it the explorers wow you're first so they did that intentionally they must have yeah i saw her what are they what do they callshots? Because in the story, I was like, I just,

I don't know what happened to the 90s, man. They were fun. The 90s were great. You were a big piece of the 90s. Well, it wasn't for me. A couple of the movies you made. Because, you know, and I want to go through some of the movies, but it was pre-internet.

Yeah. Nice to be famous pre-internet. Well, but a movie like Reality Bites comes out and I felt I was just out of college and like singles and Reality Bites and Kicking and Screaming

and before what was the first one called I can't always get it mixed up now but before like those kind of movies it was like

wow there's other people out there who feel like I feel this is great and now we have the internet where just everybody feels like how you feel you know

you can find a message board. Yeah. You know, I was kind of, I have to admit, I'm a little high on myself as we talk because, yeah,

because I just saw some list of somebody doing the like best movies of the nineties. They're doing a wrap up of the night. I had three. Did you really? What were the three? Reality bites before sunrise in Gattaca. Really? Cool. How many people are on the list? I mean, how many movies? Reality Bites, Before Sunrise, and Gattaca. Really?

Cool, man. How many people were on the list? I mean, how many movies? Like 100, 50, 25? I think it was 25, yeah. That's pretty good. So I feel kind of proud of that, you know? Gattaca's kind of become underrated

because so many movies came out from 96 to 2000. It was like this boom. And some of them slipped through the cracks. Well, it slipped in the cracks of one of the last time periods where studios were really making art films. Yeah. And nowadays that's just a bonafide art film

is what Gattaca is, but it was released as a big studio sci-fi movie. Yeah. And because of that, it bombed, because it doesn't have a gun in it. It's not thrilling, but as a actual work of art, as cinema as art, it's actually really valuable.

I mean, I'm really proud of it. And the movie people have adopted that one later. And I kind of figured, you know, I do a lot of plays. And so I can kind of, I keep my foot in the water of what movies last because you always tell by which ones people want you to sign. They come in with their- What do you mean sign. They come in with their- What do you mean sign?

Like a poster? Like a poster, an image, a DVD, some memorabilia of, you get a sense of what films have, are maintaining a place in the culture and which ones I've forgotten. This is great because I'll just do this now. We'll just rip through them and then we can talk about sports.

Okay, cool. And I can find out why you never, you never officially made a sports movie. God, I'm dying to. What the hell's wrong with you? I'm about sports. And I can find out why you never officially made a sports movie. God, I'm dying to. What the hell's wrong with you? I'm dying to and I've almost You've made like how many movies now? 50? Hey man, I'm telling you, look at this face. You know what it's starting to say to me? Could have been a basketball coach.

Could have been? What the hell's wrong with you? Could have been a basketball player. Now I'm playing the coach. You totally cock-blocked me. I was saying, look at this face. Does this not look like the face of a basketball player. Now I'm playing the coach. You totally cock-blocked me. I was saying, look at this face. Does this not look like the face of a basketball coach? You could have been a spot-up shooter.

You could have been an Eddie. Why weren't you an Eddie with Whoopi Goldberg? Or any of those. Could have been in Like Mike. No, there aren't very many great sports films. This is a passion of mine. If, I mean, my dream is to get either the Dennis Hopper

or the Gene Hackman role in Hoosiers. Oh, in the remake Shooters. Or Hoosiers. Yeah. So you want to be Shooter in Hoosiers. I want to be, not literally, but just a part like that. Those characters were so rich. And what are some of the other great sports?

You know, one of my other favorites. Now you're in my wheelhouse. Breaking Away. It's one of the great sports films of all time. I love that. What's the hockey one with Kurt Russell? I love that one. Miracle, which is actually getting better as the years pass. That's a good film. He's good in Miracle. He's a really fine actor, Kurt Russell.

And you can tell he's a jock. You can tell he cares about sports. you know I mean you can tell he cares about sports and I think that radiates what's the other one I really like I like Denzel and Remember the Titans yeah you're just kissing his ass why shouldn't I? people love that one

he's great what are your favorite sports fans? I liked it I think it's interesting because give me one of your favorites well so you have these different eras right so like when we were growing up all of a sudden rocky launches this whole boom and they took boxing lessons like the next yeah yeah i remember that you're playing the soundtrack and you're sparring in the living room and it went all the way through and we had like slap shot and fast break which is the posters right behind you and

uh victory like they did They won for every sport. Victory, yeah. And then it kind of peaked with The Natural and Hoosiers. And then we kind of went into the kids' movie realm. And then we kind of did the Disney, Remember the Titans, The Rookie, all that realm. And now it's like the very kind of focused, hyper, I'm not hyper, hyper-focused.

Did you ever see The Fighter? Or Fighter with Tom Hardy? Yeah, that's a good one. The UFC. It's like those type of movies. Creed. Creed is a very strong film. Creed's great.

You know, I did do one sports film that nobody in the whole world has seen, but it's an excellent movie. I'm really proud of it. It's called The Phenom and it's about a pitcher and I play his dad. Oh, it came out like two years ago, right?

Yeah, yeah. Was I supposed to see that? Nope. Hey, I'm telling you, I'm really proud of it. Yeah, it's an excellent film. I mean, it's a strange film because it's actually, it's a little bit like ordinary people meets the natural or something. It's much more humanity than it is baseball.

Yeah. But it's interesting about sports and it's a good, well-made film. Really? Yeah. It's one of my favorite characters I ever got to play what sports part were you the most jealous of like at somebody same point of their career like jerry mcguire do you see that one you're like oh man i would have loved to have done the sports agent no no you don't see tom cruise and think oh i want to do that it's like he still owns whatever part he's playing. It's a good point. Especially in Cocktail.

I mean, how do you flip the bottles like that? I think there's better use of his time than Cocktail. But let's see, which ones would I want to play? I remember, you know what popped in my mind as you said, it's not really a sports film, but they talk about football a lot in it. And in Dazed and Conf and confused when i saw days and confused i wanted jason london's part so badly and i i i just i picked his performance apart for i don't know eight years because and then luckily i met richard linkletter and i stole jason london's

parts after that but so that was that was 93 right yeah i was gonna say that was, that was 93, right? Yeah. I was going to say that was, yeah, that was right before you did the first one. Yeah. So you, you literally did still have Jason. No, I did not. I did other movies with him, but I, that was a, I really, and I'm trying to think there's some other, other good ones. Yeah. That is kind of a sports movie.

That's not a sports movie. It has one of my favorite. It's a spiritual sports movie. It's a spiritual, it's one of my favorite moments of movies it captures that good game good game good game good game I spent my whole life doing that with guys and you know like you just you know you're playing whatever

Matuchin or whatever school I was playing or whatever and you have to do this good game and you're all you all hate each other you can't look at each other in the eyes you don't even care yeah yeah yeah good game good game I've been really my son's 10 so we've been basically ripping through the classics look at each other in the eyes. You don't even care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good game, good game, good game, good game. I've been really,

my son's 10, so we've been basically ripping through the classics. And most of them don't hold up that great, but Bad News Bears are Breaking Training. I don't know if you're familiar with that one. Of course, yeah. We've watched that one a few times. It's good. It's like 40 years old, but still really solid. The Astrodome's great. The baseball scenes

are great. You know it's a good baseball scene. Did you ever see Boyhood, the movie I did? Yeah, I was ready to talk about it. There's a scene in Boyhood that was one of my favorite days filming, which is that Linklater and I, we snuck in to the Astro Stadium.

You know, we get the cameras, we bought 20 seats, the whole crew. So the camera, we all just bought a little section because we couldn't afford to really shoot or anything like that. And I'm telling you, this is, because Linkletter is a baseball player, lives, breathes baseball.

And he got this weird look in his eye. He's like, you know what? There's going to be a home run. And he looks at his plate. He's going to, I forget who it was. You know, this guy's lights out. He's going to nail this one. And we got the film.

And he hit. He hit a home run. And we were filming. And the camera swings back. And Eller Coltrane and I are sitting there. And we're just ecstatic. You could never act that. They actually hit a home run.

And we actually got it on film. It was one of my favorite days filming. That's awesome. By the way, he made a great baseball movie two years ago that I think is going to, as the years pass, is going to become like what happened with Dazed and Confused. Yeah. Everybody wants it.

Everybody wants it. Oh, definitely. That movie is really good. Oh, I wanted to be in that movie too. I was like, why can't there be a good coach part in that one? But he was like, no. Do you think he, yeah, he wants to like ration. Ration me.

Ration as Ethan Hawke. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's got to dish a few out to Makai. Yeah, he's got to like, yeah, he's got to take care of the others. I just have to be humble. All right, so 1985 Explorers. Yep. What's your life like at that point?

Are you going on auditions? What are you doing? Where are you living? I'm living in West Windsor, New Jersey. I just finished the summer training camp. I was trying to make the JV football team, you know, as a freshman, getting my ass handed to me. And I, they were having these big open casting calls for this movie. And I'd had a friend who used to go in to New York and go on auditions. And I went on some

auditions and I got called back and I got called back and I got called back. And eventually I had to go and tell my coach that I was going to go, I was going to drop out of school and make a movie. And he was just like, no, you're not. I was like, no, I really am. I'm not going to be in school on Monday. I remember he just looked at me and said, do you realize what a huge mistake you're making? And I said, what do you mean?

And he goes, if you make JV this year, you're going to definitely be varsity your junior year. And if you're varsity junior year, you can be kicking ass by senior year. I was like, you don't get it. I don't care about this team. You're really missing the larger point here. That was really important to him.

And it wasn't really important to me. That was my life at that time. And that was it. Yep. And then it was off? That was you on an action. That was not it at that time. And that was it? Yep. And then it was off? That was you on an action. No, it was not. It was not it at all. I went and made this movie, Explorers.

It was a wild experience because for the time, it was like a $30 million movie, which is really like a $100 million movie or something. And people thought it was supposed to be a big hit. And it was a big flop. And it was kind of devastating. It was a flop. Yeah. I don't remember that. I really felt like It was a flap. Yeah. I don't remember that.

I really felt like it was my fault that I clearly was, because they took a big chance on me, this unknown kid from high school in New Jersey that cast him in this big Hollywood picture. And then the story was that, well, it didn't work. And I didn't know how I felt about acting because I'd been very excited about it. And it took me a long time to find my way back to it. Not a long time, but it took me a couple of years to put myself back together. And I auditioned,

I got interested. I got good again, my senior year of high school, started doing it again. And I auditioned for a theater school, and that was my ticket to a good college. And then I ended up getting a part in Dead Poets Society and dropping out of college. Which was a monster movie. Which was a monster movie. That was the opposite of whatever your experience with The Explorers was.

But what's funny about it for me, and I think it was actually how the Lord moves in mysterious ways, it was actually really a blessing because I didn't really believe the success of Dead Poets Society for like five years. I just, I was, all the other young guys were so amped about, oh, the movie's going to be huge and stuff. And I was like, guys, it's not going to be. Yeah. Every movie they say this, it's not going to be. And they're like, no, actually, it's getting really good reviews.

Don't worry. It's going to be a bomb. No, actually, like, it's not made for Best Picture. It's a bomb be a bomb. No, actually, it's not made for Best Picture. It's a bomb. It actually should have won Best Picture if I remember correctly. Didn't you lose to Driving Miss Daisy? I think so, yeah.

Yeah, that did not hold up well. How do you remember that and I don't? That didn't hold up well. No, no, no. Oscar travesties are a big part of my life. Yeah, well.

No, for some reason that- We should have bigger travesties. It came up recently because we do this podcast called The Rewatchables where we rewatch. We didn't do Dead Poets, but I remember something about that year. And we were like, who won that year? And we looked it up and we're like, Travis and Miss Daisy. When was the last time anyone had a conversation about that movie? Not in any positive light.

No. They sometimes might make fun of the movie. Right. Because it's not quite what it was pretending to be. Well, Dead Poets was great because I was with Robin Williams from, you know, on Happy Days, not even Mork and Mindy yet. The original was on Happy Days. And then had this and started to do movies and rolled a cordon of Garp and never really found the perfect role.

Yeah, I love Garp. Me too. But I think it's considered to be not like a- Yeah, no, people didn't like it. And people weren't ready for him as a serious actor right and he's a really good serious actor and dead poet society kind of broke that spell and that and um it was the perfect movie for him at the right time yeah and good morning Vietnam had a lot to do with that too because good morning Vietnam let him be a stand-up yeah and have a few dramatic scenes yeah and that prepared audiences to be ready to take him seriously

as a high school professor. How much ad-libbing was he doing in those classroom scenes? A lot. Because it seemed like you guys are cracking up. It was funny. Everybody's been, Robin's been on people's minds since the past. And I think about those days. And I had a very funny reaction to him going off script a lot,

which is that I was trying very hard to be a serious young actor. I loved Peter Weir. And I was, I think maybe because of the Explorers, I was friends with River Phoenix and River was a great actor. Yeah. And I really wanted to be a great actor. You know, when you're 18, you're full of this idealism about what a great actor is and what does that mean. And Robin just comes in his set and all he does is joke.

And the kids are all laughing and I would never laugh. And he would just zero in on me. I'm going to get this guy. Kind of like Reggie Miller with Spike Lee or something. He just zeroed in on him and he would do anything to make me laugh. And the more he tried tried the more inside myself i retreated and it made him insane you know um but that was kind of weirdly your character it

was my character and it worked but maybe that's why you're retreating well and then i had this amazing experience because i kind of thought he didn't like me because he would tease me mercilessly and and then the movie was over and i got this call from Creative Artists Agency in Los Angeles, California, the biggest Hollywood agency in the world. And it was like, yeah, is this Ethan Hawke? I'm like, yeah, I'm in my college dorm, you know, back at college. And he said, yeah, well, I'm Robin Williams' agent.

Robin says you're going to be a great actor and that I should represent you. Really? And I said, would you like to meet? And I said, yeah. And I got to meet these guys. And you know that guy is still my agent, Brian Lord at CAA.

But we met through Robin Williams. That's amazing. And so I'm forever grateful to him for that. That was one of the first movies that had the ensemble cast of young actors who were clearly headed somewhere. And then you saw that the same formulas happened since a few times. But I do feel like that was the first. I remember that was one of the staggering things about just seeing that movie in the theater.

The acting from the kids was so good. It wasn't really a typical thing back then. That was a great experience too. And you know, one thing that was fun for us is that as good as Robin was in the movie, he really had a supporting part, right? I mean, we all had big parts in the movie and in foreign countries,

Robin Williams wasn't famous because he's very difficult to translate. He speaks so quickly. His jokes are so nuanced and so mercurial and you know he's cross-referencing you know he'll make a joke about andre the giant and muhammad ali and larry bird in one sentence and a lot of those references are are people that in france they don't get yeah so like robert sean leonard josh charles and i we would get invited to japan or con film festival because they didn't really care that much about Robin at that time.

Later, his international fame went. So it was a great experience. Yeah, I remember rooting for everybody from the movie afterwards. They'd be like, oh, White Fang. Hey, that's that dude. That's the dude who stood on the desk. Hey, desk guy. You know what's weird about you saying this when you said this

when we walked in that you feel like you grew up with me or whatever. I remember thinking about my agent now for a second. I remember when the script for White Fang came up and he said, you know, I really think you should do this movie. I'm like, I don't want to do a dog movie. I mean, you know, I want to be Montgomery Clift. Yeah.

I don't want to be a dog movie. And Brian said to me, he said, here's the thing, man. You're 18, 19 years old. And you think some 12 year old kid watching White Fang is a little kid. But you don't understand in five minutes, you're going to be 35. And that kid is going to be 32. And they're going to really like you because you were in that dog movie when they were a kid yeah and i was like you're probably right he said so why don't you just he said i remember

i'm saying elizabeth taylor was in the dog movie she's a great actor go you know and so i thought all right i'll go and here ironically even that's good good dog movie by the way good dog movie and i'm getting the age right i'm looking at 50 now right and so i'm thinking myself about teaching acting and what that would be like and i have a daughter going into acting and she was at juilliard and i was watching her and i was thinking what would i if i was teaching a class about acting how would i do and you know what i'd do i'd bring some dogs into the class then i learned more about acting from working with that wolf yeah because the thing about acting with the wolf is that you can't act if if you act they get all sketchy and weird like who's he talking to what's he like who's

he trying to impress he's not talking to me but if you actually be with the dog with the wolf you have to connect with the wolf and not pretend to connect yeah you actually have to connect and that's possible um and you have to do it non-verbally yeah and if you can do it with a wolf then you can do it with the worst actor in the planet man you know i mean this is this should be your acting school well i think it is i think it just happened right now welcome everyone to Juilliard. This is Bob the Wolf. Yeah.

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Billions, Killing Eve, everything you'd want. Check that out, theringer.com. Okay, back to Ethan Hawke. Reality Bites, 1994. Yep. So all of a sudden you're playing the guy that I hated in college. Who was that? Tell me about the guy you hated in college.

Well, just the guy with long hair who was the English major who thought he was smart and everybody. Who knew how to define irony. He didn't know. Yeah. He didn't watch sports. He didn't have any opinions on what was going on in the Red Sox. But somehow the girl that I liked

liked this guy you don't think that a little bit of your anger might have resided in the fact that he was simply shining a light on you wasting a lot of your time

watching sports yeah he might have been but the cool thing about that movie was there was this whole era that just wasn't

being captured it was like you graduate what do you do what do you do where am i gonna get a job and that was oh i thought i was this hot shit in college now it happens and it's like yeah you're gonna go work at the 7-eleven really particularly um felt um for generation x whatever that for our generation we were a large group of people whose parents had gone to college and we were expected to go to college. It wasn't some giant victory to have gone to where it's like my parents,

like, Oh, they went to college. That was really good. And now we're supposed to go to college. And now what are we going to do with ourselves? And so going to college didn't just get you a good job like it had used to. That was what was unique to our generation. So you had a whole, you know, at a decade of these of all of us in our twenties, you know slacker that link letter film was about the same thing it's just people hanging out wondering what the hell to do with themselves and clerks was a little like

that too although those guys i don't know what the upside kicking screaming too yeah kicking and screaming that was the i always identified with grover because he was this writer who wanted to write but had no idea but it was funny troy hoer pissed a lot of people off he really did he really pissed a lot he's a great character it was a great character what was funny about it for me is for a long time a couple years after that people thought I was Troy Holler like you know and I kept I thought that yeah but I you know it was I but that means you did a good job yeah I felt I felt proud of myself about it because it was a specific kind of character. And it was the first, really what it was, it was I had really found a character

with Todd Anderson and Dead Poets Society. And I'd really struggled to create another character. Yeah. And Reality Bites, it happened. I found a new voice, a new energy. And once you can unlock that in yourself, like I have this theory, I think a lot of people can write one good song

or a lot of people could maybe even write a good novel, one. And a lot of people could be good in one movie. And being a professional actor is figuring out how to let this stuff flow through you and really be different people again and again and again. And that's, it's a different thing. It's,

it's. Well, I also think it helped that those two characters were so different. Well, it was good for me. I mean, it was literally like night and day. Yeah.

Todd and, and, and Troy and Troy, you know, who, who, who stole my bike? Hey,

that's my bike. That was the name of my band. Well, that's, so just when you're not, you know, like, ah, maybe this Troy is all right. And then he sings the, the's my bike. That was the name of my band. Well, that's, so just when you're not, you're like, ah, maybe this Troy's all right. And then he sings the Violent Femme song in the bar and just destroys Winona Ryder.

You know what really pisses people off about that character is he's such a self-centered jerk and he still gets the girl in the end. And I think that's a joke so many guys know. Well, in real life, she tells you to fuck off and then you just have to reevaluate. In real life, she goes for the Rich Ben Stiller character. I mean, for sure.

Yeah. But, you know. Well, when that came out, did you feel like a shadow from Singles? Or did you feel like it was your own area? Because Singles beat it by, I think, a year. But, you know, if I'm allowed to say now, I hope the people in my...

Singles isn't a great film. And you know... I like this. It's really not. Because I always considered myself more of a Singles guy, but now I'm gravitating. If you really think about the... If you think about the writing of...

I mean, I'm a student of this stuff. So I'm obviously the wrong person to judge. I mean, I love Singles too. But Singles was trying to cop onto this grunge movement, this thing that was happening in Seattle. Yeah. And what was really cool about Helen Childress' script in Reality Bites is it was really funny.

Yeah. I mean, it's really funny. And the characters are really vivid. And it's really, you know, Steve Zahn is playing this, you know, gay character. And Jareen Rothloalo is hysterically funny. And here you have this female protagonist that Winona is playing that is a filmmaker and self-. I mean, he makes strange movies. His movies are original. And this was his first film. And it's very watchable. I mean, I'm my worst critic. Believe me, I spent years rolling my eyes when people talked about Reality Bites. But I was

at a wedding about seven years ago, and I couldn't sleep at night because I had to get away from the wedding and you're in a Ramada Inn in North Carolina or something and I slayed down and I flipped on the TV and Reality Bites came on and I watched it and I thought you know what this is a really interesting film and it really holds up. I think what's

cool is it really belongs to an actual era in a really significant way that when you think about the era, you think about some albums, you think about some whatever TV show is going on, and then a few movies. And that's one of the movies. And singles, I agree with you. And I think Cameron Crowe agrees. He could never figure out how to put the movie together. It doesn't quite.

It has good pieces in it. It has good pieces, and it's a a good idea and I like it and everything, but it lacks what, Winona is amazing in reality. It's a great central performance. And it was iconic. She found, I mean, you know, even when it starts out that talking head song, we're on a road to nowhere. Like it jettisons you into that moment

in America, I think. Here I am. I can't believe I'm selling that movie. Well, I don't care. It's great. People can think whatever they want. No, it's a good movie. And then Before Sunrise. Yeah. Which also kind of belonged to that young people who are out of

college trying to figure shit out. If you made like a criterion collection for those movies this would definitely be on yeah and also for at that moment you had the director of slacker and the gen x poster boy combining to make so it was it was really poised to be that ironically that film unlike reality bites is kind of timeless i mean i agree it's it's much more like an eric romare film it's much more a european film it uh it we made a conscious effort in writing that movie not to have any pop culture references to really not be able to tell what year it is that was our goal is it should be kind of timeless because we're moving through vienna which is this ancient city and we it was we used it as a

character though yeah that, it was cool. Yeah, definitely. And the only thing that really dates that movie now in a fascinating way, I think, is the internet. Like the whole idea of Jesse and Celine deciding never to not stay in touch is something that you could have done in 95. But now it's just unheard of

of why you wouldn't get somebody's email and why you wouldn't follow them on Instagram. Kind would ruin the i don't even know how you would get around that you you couldn't make the movie because it just wouldn't be believable you just have to have a different ending if if if the characters decided to do that you would kind of not like them or something it would they would be trying too hard um and and certainly the second movie even how they missed each other it wouldn't have you you couldn't you would text each other and say hey my train's running later i think that was one of the reasons i like the movie so much because that was an era where you might meet somebody and something you and then that was it and they'd be like if we go back to that bar i wonder if i'll see her

and you would never see them again and sometimes sometimes, did you ever do, sometimes you would do that. My daughter, I was just like, how would you, well, sometimes I remember like getting out of a movie at 1130 or something and going, well, sure, we'd like to hang out with some friends. Maybe I'll just go to that bar where those cool people were hanging out the other night and see if they're still there. And mostly they weren't. Right.

But sometimes they would be, you know, or sometimes somebody or, you know. I went to the Masters and they take your phone. I went last month. They do? They take your phone. So now you're back in the 1990s. Why do they take your phone? Because they don't want anything going off.

They don't want flash photography or anything. So you're just out there and you're on your own. And if you have friends there, you'd be like, yeah, we'll be around the 17th hole. But you have no idea if you're going your own. And if you have friends there, you'd be like, yeah, we'll be around the 17th hole, but you have no idea if you're going to run into them. So it's like 1995. Right. And when you run into them, it's like, hey! It's so exciting.

And it's like, and I kind of miss that. I miss it too. You know, college was like that. You'd be like, yeah, we're going to go to that party. All right, I might see you there. And then somebody would walk in. It's fascinating. Around that same time period, I was running a theater company. And I don't know how we got anybody to come to the shows. Right. I mean, you know, without e-blast and cinema. I mean, we literally walked around Times Square handing out pamphlets.

Right. And it worked. Yeah. It was a great era. Before Sunrise, I think is a movie that really holds up. I think anybody who's listening to this who's under 22 could watch it right now and not feel like it came out other than the cell phone thing. But even that,

you know, my, I was really, my daughter's fallen in love with acting and everything. And she said to me, you know, some of her, she decided she and her friends to sit down and watch that movie.

And they're all around 19. And it was so immediate for them i was so happy they completely related they they loved it in fact they were jealous they all talked about how jealous they were that we didn't have cell phones they're like i wish we didn't have cell phones it was really affecting when i'm on the train at the end just in the theater a million years ago seeing it where it's and it's left open-ended. I wonder. I know. I wonder. But then you make the sequel.

Yep, and we made the sequel before Sunset. I want to bang out all three of those because it's impossible not to talk about one without talking about the next two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is true. I can't help but pimp a little bit. Criterion just put the three of them out as one set.

Oh, wow. And it's really one of my... It's so beautiful. They did such a beautiful job with it. And it's so kind of interesting now to look at them as a whole. Cause you know, they were each made specific. I mean, when we made the first one,

we never thought we'd make two more, you know, but then. Well, you, there's no way you could have thought there was going to be a sequel to that. You were probably hoping anyone would even see it, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, you'd never, Star Wars gets sequels, not before Sunrise you know i mean we're the i we always joke that we're the before sunrise is the lowest grossing film of all time

to ever engender a sequel and it's definitely the lowest grossing trilogy ever when did you start thinking about doing the sequel and what made you want to do it obviously after at that point your career was you know you were an a-list actor you'd been a train day got supportive for or best supporting actor all that stuff yes so what happened was really cool link litter was making this weird animated movie called waking life yeah and he called julie and i up and said hey i have this idea it's this dreamscape movie and i want jesse and celine to appear in the dream. This is about five years after we'd done Before Sunrise.

And so we went down to Austin. And there was no script. And so the three of us sat in a room. We kind of came up with what these Jesse and Celine would be talking about in his dreamscape. And the three of us laughed so hard. And we had so much fun. We were so happy to see each other again.

Yeah. Because we'd fallen out of each other's orbit and uh and we started going god well what if there what would a sequel be what would it what you know how could it work and uh and we didn't know but we the idea popped up like just simply because it was so much fun to be together yeah and then i published a book and i was doing a book signing and link letter introduced me it was in austin and link letter introduced me and he had to wait an hour while i did a reading and i did this whole sign and he just had to sit there in the bookstore you know watching me do this signing and he came up to me and he said i know how the second film starts and And I'm like, how? He goes, Jesse wrote a book about that night

and it's about her and she shows up at the signing. And then I said, guess what, dude? He's like, what? I said, that's the whole movie. That's it. We just, it's real time. It's 90 minutes. It's 90 minutes.

It's that, that is the movie. So we got in his pickup truck and we drove from Austin to Bastrop and called Julie. So what do you, she comes in and she's that, that is the movie. So we got in his pickup truck and we drove from Austin to Bastrop and called Julie. So what do you, she comes in and she's like, all right, hold on. You've got to come, we've got to come to Paris and meet me and we'll bat out an outline. And we've, Rick and I flew, you know,

we figured out a time period we all could do it. And we flew to Paris and we stayed at Julie's apartment. And it happened again. I, we tried to write this little outline so that somebody would finance the movie. It was kind of like a little 20-page treatment, and we stayed up all night, because it was one of those things

where you only have four nights, because Rick had to be somewhere, or Julie had, like, whatever it was. We had, like, four nights, and we stayed up talking, and I laughed so hard. Julie Delpy's one of the funniest people on the planet. I mean, I laughed so hard, tears Delpy is one of the funniest people on the planet. I mean, I laughed so hard,

tears would be streaming down my face. And we just knew we had to make this second movie. The ending of that one is one of my favorite endings of a movie. Me too. It's just a great last scene. My wife gets so mad at me. She says, you can't agree with people

when they give you a compliment. I'm like, I know, you're right, you're right. What I should say is thank you, but I love, I remember when Rick had the idea, I know, you're right, you're right. What I should say is thank you, but I love, I remember when Rick had the idea, you know, and I was just like, yes. Who would say, Nina Simone, right? Nina Simone's playing and Julie starts impersonating. Yeah.

And she says, boy, you're going to miss that plane. And Jesse just says, I know, cut to black. It's so good. It's so good. I saw that on Sunsetset that theater that's near the Chateau Marmont and I was so worried that

I was like I'm not gonna see this they're gonna mess this up they should have done this and then my friend Dave Damoshek went and he's like you gotta go

it's like the characters have advanced cause we were all the same age as the characters the characters have now advanced to where they're us at the same age points and you just have to go.

And it was like that. And there's really not a trilogy like that where it's, here's young love. You just believe in it idealistically. Then it's like, you're a little burned in the second one and maybe, but yeah, you're still kind of holding on. And then the third one, everyone's ruined. Everyone goes into the deep end of the pool. It just gets dark. I remember I knew before midnight was going to be dangerous,

the third one, when we started shooting and we're doing a scene. And in the scene, I'm talking about a book I'm writing or something with some people. And a young woman walks by and I clock this young woman. You know, she's walks by in a bikini and I clock this young woman. She's walks by in a bikini and I kind of give a glance to the, and the camera operator, he looked up, he said, you can't do that, man.

Like, what do you mean I can't do that? He goes, you love Celine. Oh, Jesus. I was like, buddy, I do love Celine, but a 22 year old in a bikini just walked by and right grown man and and and you know this is and he's like you can't no and i said to him i said look that's what this whole movie is going to be about right it's gonna wake up this is reality folks yeah okay and in the real world people don't just evaporate and go to heaven when they kiss yeah right you're gonna have to stay in and work on it to get it out and really attractive people are gonna walk by wet and

bikinis and their swim trunks and your wife's gonna notice them and so are you and you're still gonna have to try to work it out you you know and and he was like i i don't know if i can handle this he remember him saying to me uh it's it's kind of like finding out i it's like he said it's kind of like watching jack you know jack and rose clock other people he's like i can't i can't handle this right he's like well this is what before midnight's gonna be um and in a lot of ways the challenge before midnight is is the one that i'm most proud of because that what rick and julie and i said i said to do is could we make a romantic movie? Cause the first two are really essentially, they really deal a lot with romantic projection

and optimism. Yeah. And what we imagine might happen. Yeah. What happened if we made a movie now where you're 10 years into a relationship and you really talk about what is with no romantic projection could you make a movie that is deeply romantic and completely believes in love without one lie without lying at all and that was our goal and it was a really it was one of the hardest writing that movie was one of the most i mean i'm almost i love acting right so like when i go to a rap party or something i'm usually a little disappointed i like making the movie and when we rap before midnight i was exhausted just just spiritually emotionally spent so when you like you so you see her when you're thinking of the sequel is it like seeing an old

girlfriend because you spent like the in night what was it 94 95 it was like such an intense movie it's almost like you had a real relationship well we do have a real relationship no but you know yeah no i know what you mean but it it's if you co-write and act three movies with somebody once a decade for three decades. Right. Julie and I know each other really well. Yeah. You know, and then, cause it's not, you don't just do the movie. Then you do the press tour, you know, and then you get in fights with their family and, you know, I mean,

just you get to know each other. So have you found like with the Netflix slash HBO now, all these streaming things where these movies are just on all the time, Amazon prime, you're hitting this whole new generation. You said like your daughter watched it, but do you feel like there's a new generation out there that's just like, what's this? Oh, I hope so.

I mean, that's what I felt, what was so interesting to me about this Criterion Collection of the three is people buying it as one entity. Right, like the Godfather. Yeah, it's so weird. It's like it, because it wasn't conceived that way.

I mean, Godfather one and two really were conceived like their continuation as tandem. And the before trilogies, but they really do function as a trilogy.

Did you do a commentary for it? Yeah, we did. Yeah. So when you said you were writing it, who's actually typing? All three of us at different times. I mean, you know, we would stay up, we'd be in a room like this one so when you said you were writing it who's actually typing all three of us

at different times we'd be in a room like this one and usually we would arrive in a room like this on all the scenarios with about a 20 to 40 page script outline and then we would spend a month yelling at each other

listening to music, walking through it because the way Rick shoots those movies, there's such long takes, 11 minute take, 14 minute take, eight minute take, four minute take, three minute take. But they're not made in the editing room. When Rick commits to a 14 minute take, that means that there's not going to be alternate line readings. You can't save it. So the rehearsal process is meticulous. It's almost like a play. It's very much like a play, but a play that you're writing at the same time.

Yeah. And so it's a very elaborate and strange process that is unlike any other experience of my life. One more break to talk about one of the best sponsors that we've had join the podcast in the last 18 months. Hotel Tonight. If you're like me, you're not so great at planning ahead. Because I'm not. I've got good news. Our friends at Hotel Tonight have an awesome app that helps you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute.

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Download the Hotel Tonight app now, right now, this moment. Go, stop, stop whatever you're doing. Just do it. While we're here, don't forget, Unshuffle, The Ringer's new music podcast hosted by Michael Peters. It launches this week. Don't you want to be there for it? Just subscribe now. Subscribe on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, back to Ethan Hawk. So after that one and Reality Bites, you had your choice of jobs, but you were also part of this whole, your age group that was a really good acting class. It was almost like in basketball, like jason tatum donovan mitchell cricket class but i think when in river phoenix he died like what he died around that same time

he died right around the time before when do you become friends with him 84 and he died oh you knew him that long yeah how explorers we were that's right he was my first scene partner man oh my god yeah before the wolf was river yeah so what what was it about him that it just seemed like he had such a profound effect on everybody who crossed paths with him what was it dying young hurts no but i mean it creates a vacuum where you're left it it it it's it's like a hurricane touching ground or something it leaves a wreckage you know uh and but he also had him i don't know if you know sometimes you meet people and they have a slight magical quality about him so much so that it almost didn't surprise me when it happened when his death

happened you know that there was something a little otherworldly about him. Really? There's a little light in his eyes that was, I was, I struggled very much with both really liking him and being his friend and being really envious. He was, he was ahead of the curve on me as far as being an artist. Yeah. He was a great musician and he really thought outside the box.

His family was so interesting, you know, they were so radical and made my family seem really boring. Right. And it seemed like the kind of family and a great artist should come from, eccentric and wild and political. And my father's a mathematician and my mother sold college textbooks.

I felt really boring. Yeah. So what kind of choices did you have after those two movies well before you must have been offering like all kinds of stuff right action movies and rom-coms and whatever you want you know what happened to me though training day and before sunset you know happened pretty close together you know within a span of three years or something together and those are two you know as an actor i want to know for yeah yeah as an actor working with denzel was a big like adult adult awakening moment you know it's like my first big

hollywood movie where i'm co-starring with the first ballot hall of famer it is pride in like his career year. In his career prime. I mean, it's like playing with Jordan when he's 31. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's, he's right. It's like 93 Jordan. Yeah.

And, and, and so that was, that really was an exciting moment as an actor. And then like one of my best friends, Richard Linkletter is coming into his own as an artist and, and asking me to, you writing and acting and before sunset was a it felt like i was becoming a an adult you know and that was really exciting but then i got divorced yeah it was like uh getting kicked in the face yeah it just everything fell apart and everything about who i thought i was and But that was later in the night. That was like then. It was right after, before sunset.

Yeah. It was during and before. My marriage had ended before we started filming before sunset. And so that was really tough. And so you're having these positive experiences, but your inner world is kind of chaotic. And I threw myself really back at, so you're asking me, was I getting big offers? I might've been getting big offers. I wasn't thinking about them. And one of the things that has always brought me peace is work. Yeah.

I like working and I like the theater. And I really, in the wake of my divorce, I really threw myself back at the theater. And you could say as a career thing, it was a mistake. Training Bay had just come out. I'd been nominated two times in four years or something like that. And like, it was a time to be working in the movies and be in Hollywood. Instead, I just did one play after the other and one weird art film after another weird art film. And I loved it.

Yeah. You know, and I put myself back together um and i also allowed myself to heal my family and be a parent and fall in love again and kind of build my life back up and so when you asked me at those time periods work became a little less important. Yeah. So, because in a way that first decade, 20 to 30, I was defined by my job. Yeah. How my life was going was how my job was going. And then you kind of realize, oh, wait, job is not reality.

What kind of man am I? What kind of person? I'm gonna be dead soon. You start like, you know, 35 comes around and you start to feel it. It's like time to quit smoking. It gonna be dead soon you start like you know 35 comes around and you start you start to feel it it's like time to quit smoking it's time to like wow you know these things start happening and uh when did we ever decide when it is time to quit smoking is there an age i'm just looking out for nephew kyle over here 36 this is the thing i remember i had this doctor, because you have to get physicals for movies,

and you're always going, I went and I had this doctor. And I'll actually tell this story, because this is where I talked about being divorced. So I was about 33, and 32, 33, getting divorced, miserable, chain smoking. Yeah. And I said to this doctor, I know I got to quit. And he said, you know something you

don't have to quit he said you smoke all you want you're getting divorced i'd rather you smoked than getting a fistfight in a bar yeah you know he's like just smoke them if you got them pal have a good time and i was like really because yeah you are really depressed he's like there's gonna be a time to quit smoking and it's not right now you know he's like you're a young man great advice yeah you see he's like you're you got to get your act together okay and when you get your act together you quit smoking okay so a couple years go by i come back in i'm 36 and he goes how you doing i'm like i'm doing really good oh yeah yeah you got a girlfriend yeah yeah yeah things are going well oh good yeah you put some weight back on yeah yeah oh you're sleeping healthy okay so it's time for this speech

and he busted out the graphs about if you're still smoking at 40 and your chances of dying of it and how many years you're going to go by how many years you'll lose and the quality of your life and what you're going to lose and and he starts he literally put up these little army men like 10 of them he said if you're still smoking at 40 he knocked over seven and he said how sure are you that you're one of those three guys? He's like, and he's like, so. Basically, he said, so it's time. And I walked out and I immediately had a cigarette.

I was just like, oh, Jesus. And that guy depressed me. And then, you know, a couple months later, one day I just put him down. And that was it? That was it, yeah. When you were on Reality Bites, were you smoking, because now they smoke fake cigarettes, were you smoking real cigarettes on the set? Here's the thing. It must have been like seven packs a day.

But I had made this decision that Troy smoked Camelon filters, right? Because guys like Troy always smoke Camelon filters. Oh my God. So I'd be doing a take, chain smoking Camelon filters and then they'd give you a break and what do you do on your break? smoke, because I'm used to smoking on my break but I would get home and like cough up huge

I'm surprised you didn't like a severe bronchitis I do, I get bronchitis all the time day number 10 which movie did you meet your wife? the first wife Gattaca did you fall your wife? The first wife. The first wife, Gattaca. Oh yeah, that's right. Okay.

Yeah, it was Jude Law's first movie. Did you fall for each other on the set or after? Oh, we madly in love on the set. Yeah. I'm always amazed that doesn't happen all the time. I don't think we made it to the first day of shooting without falling in love. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. I'm always amazed that doesn't happen all the time.

Because everybody throw, you're in the role and it's just the intensity of it. Exactly. It's not fair. Can I ask you about- You can ask me anything. No, when you're married to somebody who's also famous and who does exactly what you do, it seems like sometimes, unless both people's careers are going great, if somebody passes the other or is doing better than the other, it seems like that has its own challenges, right?

It makes life, it creates a geometry problem that makes it very hard to be your best self. You know, I mean, I know people that do it. You know, there's actors that take care of each other and it can make you a very evolved and good person. Yeah. But it is uniquely challenging. Like, for example, it's very challenging if you go in with your wife to screen test for the same movie that everybody wants.

And only one of you get it. And you go home and you're both like anxious. Oh, we're going to get a call back. We're going to get a call back. And the phone rings and it's like, and it's her agent. And she jumps for joy. I got a call back. I got a call back.

And then your phone doesn't ring. Your phone doesn't ring. You're like, wow, I didn't. And she deserves to have somebody take her out to dinner and celebrate and get ready for the call back. Instead, you want to cry. But also you deserve to be able to cry a little bit. So that's when you get the camo and filters out? Yeah.

I'm just making a point to be made that it asks a lot of a person. I can imagine. I get competitive with my wife just over who discovered that restaurant first five years ago. We had a 10-minute argument about it. Can't even imagine if we were both actors. Yeah. But you know, I have, I'm friends with Alessandro Nivola

and Emily Mortimer. We were both great actors and they really take care, they're really an inspiration because they really take care of each other and they take care of each other's art and they're really encouraging of each other. And it can be done. Who was that, Hugh Cronin and Jessica Tandy?

Yeah. And they were somehow linked together as actors for 130 years? Yeah, yeah. That seems like another way it could go. Yeah. You almost become a tandem, like Bacardi and Lennon? Yeah, right. Exactly.

Training Day 2001. Yep. Did you know that was going to be a monster? Totally. I mean, I knew. You have MJ in his prime. You have a great script. You have a good director.

I read that script. And you're picturing what Denzel, the intersection of Denzel at that moment in his career with this great piece of writing. Antoine Fuqua was a really exciting young director at that point and he was ready for that job yeah and I wanted that part so bad because I knew what a good film that could be and I met Antoine and it became kind of clear to me that Antoine and Denzel wanted me but other

people didn't want me. And I was going to really have to jump through some hoops and audition. And it's one of those great moments in your life where you're like, you know what? Because I was already being offered movies and things were going well. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to do it. I'm going to get this part. I'm going to eat a little humble pie and I'm going to go in and I'm going to get this part.

And I did. And I was glad I did. I'm trying to think what movies have people come up to you and just throw lines at you? That's got to be in the top three, right? Oh, yeah. Jake, Jake, you got the money, Jake. King Kong ain't got nothing on me. I mean, people say that to me pretty much daily. Yeah. King Kong ain't got nothing on me. I mean, people say that to me pretty much daily.

Was he biggest force of personality actor you worked with or was there somebody else? Bigger force than Denzel? Just like day to day. Let me tell you something. Have you heard of the expression alpha male? Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Well, if there was somebody who was bigger than denzel um on a set i wouldn't want to be there because that would be he was friendly with michael jordan i always wondered like what happened when they hung out together that they didn't just fight to the death i just mean that he's amazingly confident man and he knows he knows who he is the room and he fills the room and he knows what he wants and he expects a lot from other people and you know i worked with him again on magnificent seven i love working with denzel i'd love to work with him again i mean he's great at what he does and if you're some shrinking violet it's an unbelievable accomplishment what he's done.

Yeah. actor. I mean, you know, he's on Broadway right now doing Iceman Cometh. His performance in Flight is like, anybody else does that movie Flight? And it's like a charming kind of neat indie movie, right? Yeah. Denzel Washington in Flight, that is an event. It is a, I mean, he's one of our finest actors and a genuine bonaf fide, card-carrying movie star. Yeah. You know? I mean, he's a better actor than, you know, I mean, when you think about other generations like Clark Gable or, you know, one of these people.

I mean, he's on a par with Marlon Brando, but he's sustained it for 30 years. And he's doing it carrying the burden of, you know, being African-American in this country and having to carry a lot of extra weight. Yeah. You know, as a role model, as a leader in his community, having to face racism, having to fight through it. I just saw in Brooklyn the other day, they did an anniversary screening of Malcolm X. I guess it's 25 years. Yeah. It's a towering achievement and if you see that movie in a crowded house in brooklyn

and on the big screen yeah you know it's like a rock concert and it makes i was thinking about it's like man he should have won five academy awards for that movie like it's just so much better than most of the performances that guys win oscars for i always say that with sports where the mvp trophy should be different, different weights, depending on how good it was. Yeah. Like I love this player. It's like a 40 pound Oscar. Yeah. It's a, it's a 40 pound Oscar.

Like Iguodala when he won MVP. The finals. Yeah. It's kind of like, all right. It's like a four pound MVP. You know what I mean? It's because he couldn't figure out who to give it to. Cause he kind of wanted to give it to Curry, but he didn't really deserve it.

But he's like, and, and so, okay, we'll give it to the guy who missed like 80 million free throws. And, and, and so,

whereas truthfully LeBron wins. If they just push that to seven games that year, LeBron, even losing wins that MVP. He needed to, you know, he was by what he had the most assists, most rebounds, most deals, most points of anybody in the series. And he didn wins that MVP. He needed to, you know, he was, he had the most assists, most rebounds, most steals, most points of

anybody in the series, and he didn't win MVP. Rookie of the Year is like that this year, where Donovan Mitchell and Ben Simmons were both so good. That's like a 40-pound rookie of the year. Give them a little extra bonus one. Yeah, give them bonus ones. Well, I'm glad you liked Enzo. Tape, I thought was a really interesting movie. I just wanted to mention it.

Yeah, I love that movie. It's fucking weird. It is a weird movie. It's dark. It's weird. It's weird. Three people in a hotel room. Yeah.

But you know, it's worth it. It's a good cable movie. It's like, oh yeah. Tape. We made that movie thinking, you know what we're making this movie for?

Some night. Some night. You're going to be alone. You can't sleep. And you're going to turn this on and your mind's going to be blown. Yeah. And you're going to wake up in the morning and go, wait, what happened?

What? Yeah. I love that movie. And, you know, in all this kind of, as the sexual politics is kind of taken the nation by storm this year, you know, like, and that writing becomes even more interesting scene in the light today. Yeah. Because it's very interesting about its, you know, male relationship to sexual violence. Yeah. It's a good one.

I got to mention a couple more. We just walking through my filmography? No, no, we're done, man. I just had a couple I had to hit with. Yeah, that's, you know, I don't mind. I like talking about it. Sinister? Yeah, well, sinister is funny.

So there's this whole Netflix, I think driven by Netflix, but just horror movies constantly. And they're all over the place. And it's usually something's wrong with the house or something's wrong with the kid or I shouldn't have looked at that priest that way. And then bad things ensue. And Sinister is one of the best ones, best versions of that.

Scott Derrickson is a great director. And he really led me through that performance and I'm really proud of that movie. You know, I have this idea of an obituary, you know, that has a good movie for every mood. Yeah. Or every genre, you know, I want, and sometimes it's midnight

and you got your friends sleeping over and you want to watch a scary movie. If you put on Sinister, you'd be glad you did it's scary it's genuinely scary and and and scott allowed me to give a real performance inside a horror movie you know that character really that was an interesting moment in my life i was 40 and it's my character in the movies really looking at his past and the successful past and really worried about what his future is and yeah it's the best days behind him and how much does he want to hold on to fame and how much does he want to hold on to you know perception of power and money and you

know late at night watching old clips of himself on talk shows it was yeah it was fascinating for me to get to explore that character and use myself. Like, well, what does middle-aged look like? This is scary. And what I wanted to tell you about Scott was that he felt the same way. He even confessed to me while shooting. He said, you know, I can't see before sunset because I like before sunrise too much. I'm still mad at you guys for making Before Sunrise.

The Purge. Yes, The Purge. I let my son see this when he was like I don't know, seven. That's not smart. It gets worse. He wanted to go as The Purge for Halloween in 2015. We also saw

Purge 2 and Purge 3. The Purge was one of the best ideas for a movie of the past 10 years it's just phenomenal it's such a good idea and I think they're bringing it back though as a TV show and it's like great let's do it

in seeing now in the light of the present administration it just makes more you can just imagine Trump saying I got an idea everybody it's gonna be great. The greatest night ever. We just get rid of some people. Yeah.

Yeah. You can just see it. And no, I had done Assault on Precinct 13 with James DeMonaco. Yeah. And I really like, James has got a brilliant mind. And that's an old fashioned drive in movie. Really is. And one of the things I love about genre movies is you can actually talk about, you know,

quote unquote important topics in a way that isn't pretentious. Yeah. Because it's the future. Imagine a world in which rich people don't care what happens to poor people. Right. They live in their communities and watch TV while they're on their treadmill and flip by channels without caring that there's fires outside. Right.

A world where a young black male might be chased through the streets of suburbia and shot and killed. Can you imagine? Well, in a way, that is, if you make a very well-meaning movie about racial violence or something like that, well, you know, Get Out's another example. I mean, the genius of Get Out is they really make you look at social politics while telling you a great story

without being pompous or pretentious. And that actually affects audiences. I remember seeing Get Out with a total mixed race audience one night and like half the crowd would laugh and then turn and look is that okay to laugh and then that crowd they would burst laughing and then everybody laugh again and and then and i felt like when we walked out we were all friends yeah like and i love it when movies can do that bring people together you know you know? Purge is a good movie. Yeah.

Boyhood was the last one I want to talk about just because that was one of the most fascinating movie experiments. How many years did you work on that? 12 years. And when you would see the kid, did you keep in touch with them

between the thing? Yeah. His name's Eller Coltrane. He's a remarkably young man. And we, you know, the whole movie follows the grid of, it's the only

time all of our lives are kind of the same first grade through 12th grade most of us we all most of us follow that pattern you know where you kind of know where and it replaces a plot with this idea of all right we're gonna go through first grade to 12th grade yeah and so we did it once we made a short film every year for 12 years and uh it turned into boyhood it's awesome experience oh we gotta talk about your new movie let's do it when's it come out may 18th first reformed new film by paul schrader probably paul schrader american gigolo paul schrader exactly taxi driver paul schrader raging bull paul schrader yes you know one of the great writers of his generation and one of the best scripts I've ever read.

And it is incendiary. It's like a Bergman film if Bergman was rocking out to the Ramones the whole time he made a movie. And what's your character in this? I play a priest who is counseling a young man who is in a severe depression about what's happening to our planet

and to the environment. And he doesn't know whether he wants, his girlfriend is pregnant and he doesn't know if he wants to be a father in a world that's on fire. And why would he bring a child into this fire and what? And he starts really questioning me about where is our leadership? Where are the grownups? Why is nobody doing anything? And particularly, why are the spiritual class of this country, why are we not being better stewards to God's earth? And how could I go and pray every day and not do something about it and it's a very tough conversation and the movie goes on from there um and it's it's you'll see it's very much the same work as the guy who wrote taxi driver it's very powerful but it's a mature work it's not you know um and he wrote this recently or is it oh yeah oh yeah how old is he now 71 wow and it And it's like hearing an old lion roar.

Yeah. And he's letting you know that there's stuff to think about and there's stuff to pay attention to. And it's really one of the best characters I've ever been given the opportunity to play. And you're still doing Broadway stuff? I do. Off-Broadway, all that stuff? Next year, I'm going to do True West, Sam Shepard's True West with Paul Dano.

You're a New York guy or an LA guy? New York guy. Knicks? Who's your team? Well, I've been a Knicks fan for a long time, but I got kicked out of the garden. What? They won't give me tickets anymore.

What are you talking about? I'm being serious. I'm being dead serious. I really was vocal on some talk shows like this that I thought it was a huge mistake to let Mike go. And to, you know, I would have bet on Mike before I bet on Mello and they didn't let me come back. Oh, Mike D'Antoni.

Yeah. That was it? You sided with D'Antoni over Mello? Not over Mello, but over, there was something genuinely exciting. The first thing that had been exciting since Jeff Van Gundy left in the garden with the Knicks was Lynn Sanity. Lynn Sanity was incredible.

It was absolutely incredible in the way that that organization didn't fan the flames and let Mike do what he wanted to do and let these guys run and let them play ball. And instead, Mike's on his way to Western Conference Final. And, you know, the garden's empty. Creaky, creaky, creaky. But I haven't been left teamless. And simultaneously- You could buy tickets and go if you wanted. The point is I'm not wanted and I don't go where I'm not wanted.

It's hard to be a fan for a place that doesn't like you. Yeah, but one person doesn't like you. Well, one person who owns it. Cause I called up once, you know, you have to understand I've been going since I've been reality bites came out once I was kind of like, Oh, so you were there for you and Mason. I would call up and say, Hey, could I get tickets? And they'd be, Oh, welcome Ethan. And sometimes, you know, and you know, sometimes they wouldn't have tickets, but they'd always hook me up and let me, you know, maybe the seats weren't great. Maybe they were great, depending on the night.

And then I called up one time and they said, that'll be $7,800. I was like, oh, oh. And I said, why is this the first time you guys are charging me? And they said, you should have thought of that before you went on the Jimmy Fallon show. You know? Wow. And I was i was like wow this is real and um and so i've apologized publicly many times to try to get my seats again and uh seems to uh i'm surprised jimmy fallon let

you do that because he's we were both still sitting courtside we were both excited about no i'm exaggerating it't think you're exaggerating. Listen, James Dolan is a spiteful man. The point is that happened kind of around the same time, a little bit later than that, LeBron decided to go to Cleveland. And there was something- Oh, 2014. There was something about him going back to Cleveland that was so righteous, so cool. And it marked some transition in my willingness to accept LeBron's greatness emotionally and to start enjoying his greatness. And I didn't have a team.

And I have followed with dutiful fandom the LeBron James movement. And I'm in a period of ecstasy right now watching one of the greatest players to play the game have one of the greatest seasons. Can I give you the cynical counter to what I just heard? Yeah. It sounds like you dumped the crappy team and jumped on the bandwagon of the second best player of all time. It doesn't sound like that. It is that. It just takes away second grade.

Okay? That's the only part. Do you have him over Jordan? I don't have him over Jordan. I like what Barkley said the other day. It's kind of like there are eras. You can't really compare eras. LeBron James has been the greatest player of his time period,

and it's bar none. You know how you think about like how Shaq only has one MVP and like, it's just, everybody just kind of took him for granted for a while. And I think that happened for a little while with LeBron. And now people, he's getting old enough now that people are like, oh wait, actually this is pretty awesome. And you're right. I just, I've just, it was so, it's been so much fun watching um him play golden state uh and to see the level of basketball that's being played it's really

exciting and i can't wait to watch the rockets and golden state wars i can't wait to see that i wish kairi was healthy um that would be thrilling to see a healthy celtics i think i think my team's gonna be uh we'll be okay your team is I think my team's going to be, we'll be okay in the series. Your team is the future. My team's okay. Brad Stevens, I don't know how a person gets that smart. I watch these games and it's just,

sometimes you can kid yourself into thinking that coaching doesn't really matter. It's all about, you're like, no man, wow, this is a fine coach. And, you know, I mean, obviously Popovich is a great, and I just, I love watching basketball right now. If Brad Stevens called you and said,

I've mastered coaching, now I want to direct. I'm making this indie film, this script I've been working on for a while. I want you to be in it. I'm there, brother. Free, free. When is the best time to do it? Maybe that should be your sports movie role.

You play the Brad Stevens story. I'm already, this is crazy. I'm already too old for Brad Stevens. I got to play Popovich. Yeah. The, the LeBron thing is going to be interesting. I've been following how amazing, what a leader Popovich has been vocally about race in this country and sports.

He's been such an inspiration. They've been, and Steve Kerr too. They've just been, I just so appreciate their honesty and their intelligence you know to compared to every nfl coach yeah like i mean you know one thing spike lee said that i really agree is like where the hell is branch ricky now you know where the hell is somebody to say hey you guys colin kaepernick is a good quarterback and and he would sell tickets yeah okay this is good quarterback and he would sell tickets. Yeah.

Okay. This is business. All right. He would sell tickets and it's the right thing to do. You know, and you're dealing, the sports forces people in interracial community at its fine. I mean, this is people where we're really, it's what, you know, military does it, sports where you really see people working together. And where is Branch Rickey now?

And I wish one of these owners would really step forward and make a statement and be a leader. It seems like the NBA is so progressive, partly because it has to be, but also because it's just trying to appeal to everybody, whereas the NFL is still so worried about their little pockets. Their image. Where people would just go, Colin Kaepernick, he should stand up.

And they're worried about those people more than everybody. And that seems to be part of the issue. Because Houston should have signed him last year when Deshaun Watson got hurt. Come on. Just go get him. Just go get him. Instead, it was like they were doing roulette

with all these different kids there's so many places that could use a good quarterback that he would be very popular what was the best Knicks game you went to just out of curiosity well I went did you go to any of the fight games well okay

were you there for Van Gundy holding what's his face is like I was there when the game five, when Reggie went off with Spike, when Spike was taunting Reggie and he went off and won that. Oh, yeah, we made a 30 for 30 about that. Oh, that 30 by 30 is amazing. I was there at that game.

I was there. I saw a couple great Jordan teams. I saw Patrick Ewing score 50 once in a regular season game. That was really awesome. He had one of his best nights. And I saw the game seven against Indiana where Patrick missed the finger roll. And all that hurt.

That was a tough one. That was a tough one. Were you at the game when Eddie Curry had 11 hot dogs and then went out and scored two points? No, I wasn't. You didn't go to that one? What about the game when Steve Francis didn't pass to a single teammate for four quarters?

Missed that one? I missed that one. It's been a rough century. That was in my black ears. It's been a rough century. Maybe the lottery's on Tuesday. Maybe they'll get lucky. Who the hell knows?

How old are your kids now? Seven. Well, okay. One is turning seven. One is turning 10. One is turning 20. And one is 16. 20 is a girl or a boy?

20 is a girl. Oh, that's Stranger Things? My hawk is in Stranger Things, yeah. 20, huh? Yeah. My daughter just turned 13. Wow. What do I have to prepare for greatness

okay that's a great answer yeah oh i tell you i i mean it's just been just when you think like oh you got a handle on life life presents you with a grown woman as a daughter yeah and you get to hear about dating from her point of view, you know, and you get the whole world looks different. She's, and for me, it's particularly unique because she's going into acting and we have shared passions, you know? And, but the industry has changed so much.

You know, she's this, she's did this BBC production of Little Women that's gonna air very soon on PBS. And it's a great movie and she did a great job. And it was very wild to be on set and watch her acting with all these young women. It looks so much like when I was her age on Dead Poets Society with all these young men. And it was like this kind of inverted experience.

And to see the industry now and see what it looks like coming into it, I don't know, it's just thrilling. Maybe she can be in After Sunrise when you do the second trilogy. Don't cut me out yet. About old. No, you're in it.

I'm in it too? You're in it. About old. Your dad, you have kids now and then it's like three more movies. All right. You just bang them all out. I'm into it.

I'm into it. Just get in the hotel, fly to France. Make it happen. With your friend Rick, go to Julie Delpy's apartment and just bang out the fourth one it's time

second trilogy it's not a fourth movie it's a new if it happens that's what it'll be alright this was really fun I'm glad we did this

thanks for having me good luck with the movie thank you alright thanks to Cousin Sal thanks to Ethan Hawke thanks to the Supreme Court thanks to Zip Recruiter don't forget to go to

ziprecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Gillette. Gillette offers a variety of shaving products for every guy, regardless of his personal style, skin needs, or budget. Whether you want three blades or five, the new Gillette 3 and 5, Gillette 5 razors, 3 and 5, Gillette 3, Gillette 5, 3 and 5. Have you covered all under $10? High performance at a low price.

Get Gillette performance delivered to your door. Find Gillette 5 at GilletteOnDemand.com. Subscribe today. Back after the lottery. Maybe Tuesday night even. Who knows? Tuesday night, Wednesday morning. Go Celtics. I don't have.