The Bill Simmons Podcast - Steve Kerr Mailbag, Part 1 (Ep. 293)

Episode Date: November 29, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Golden State Warriors head coach Steve Kerr to discuss the modern NBA player (6:00), deciding against taking the Knicks job (15:00), Jordan's competitiveness in practice (20:00), getting rid of excessive replay reviews (27:00), Jordan's flu game (35:00), and Jeff Van Gundy's two-knucklehead theory (42:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the BS Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, as always, brought to you by SeatGeek. That's our presenting sponsor. For $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase on NBA tickets. It's really fun to go to NBA games. A lot of good games going on right now. All you have to do is use promo code BSNBA, download the SeatGeek app, or go right to SeatGeek.com. We are also brought to you by one new podcast and one semi-new podcast that we rolled out this week on TheRinger.com.

One of them is the JJ Reddick podcast, which has come to The Ringer Podcast Network. We put up a first episode with Joel Embiid, JJ's teammate on the Philadelphia 76ers. It's an awesome podcast. We were always jealous of it when it was on Yahoo. And, uh, and I feel like it's finally at its rightful home, but JJ and Joel talked about a whole bunch of stuff. He's going to be doing it, um, as often as he can during the season. He's really good at podcasts. Um, I've actually been on that podcast and I had a great time, but if you want to subscribe to that, uh, subscribe to it on iTunes and whenever else you get your time. But if you want to subscribe to that, subscribe to it on iTunes

and wherever else you get your podcasts. Also, Binge Mode is coming back. In fact, it's back tomorrow, Thursday. They're going to be trying to do it every week. Miley Rubin and Jason Concepcion. Basically just super smart deep dives on things that they're obsessed about. Whatever it might be, pop culture, sports, we'll see. But, uh, it's all leading

to next year when, um, they're going to be throwing themselves into Harry Potter. So if you love binge mode, game of Thrones, get ready for binge mode, Harry Potter coming next year. And in the meantime, they're going to be doing weekly deep dive. So if you subscribe to that, refresh your feed, If you have not subscribed yet, I would urge you to subscribe. It was one of our big hits of 2017. Very excited to have that on the ringer podcast network coming again. And, uh, don't forget about the ringer.com every Friday. I have a column there. I will have a column this week on the ringer.com along with all the other great stuff we have coming up. The first part of my interview with Steve Kerr, we did a podcast on Tuesday night,

which we talked some basketball for about 15 minutes. And we dived into a mailbag with listener questions that you guys sent in. And we're going to run part one of that. It was too long for one podcast. So we're splitting it up into two running part one on this part two, we'll run on Friday. And then, uh, after that we're going to call my buddy Joe house because we got to talk about

this Tiger Woods thing. This is becoming super duper, duper real. I need information. I need to know how to feel about this. I don't want to, I want to let my guard down and get hurt again. Anyway, that's all coming up first Pearl Jam. Steve Kerr. We've been doing this almost, what, nine years? Since maybe 2008, I think, was the first time you came on my podcast? I couldn't tell you the year, but it's been a long time. Now you have two more titles.

You're coaching four of the best, like, 13 players in the league. I don't know. I'm really proud of you. I used to just be, you know, on TV. Just one of my buddies on the pod like me you and Jacko and House

and now so we're doing a gimmick that we're gonna do in a second about I asked our great listeners for a lot of mailbag questions

for you and they were fantastic too many good questions almost but I wanted to talk because we haven't talked since you won the title

in my book we talked about the disease of more and the year after and the FU edge and all these things, and you have now lived through two different generations of winning a title and then trying to figure out how to deal with it the year later. And this Warriors season, I think, is almost the best example of that because you win in 15, lose the game seven. You have the revenge title last year durant gets

one everybody has one now and now you're having like the classic year after season and you knew it was going to happen right away right knew it knew yeah uh having been through this in chicago in 98 you know 96 was brand new yeah 72 win the title 97, just like the season just picked up right where we left off. And then 98, it's like, all right, now everybody's exhausted. And you probably remember that Jazz series. The one when you and Stockton were feuding like the Crips and the Bloods? Yeah, something like that. But I think we were up 3-1, and it looked like we were in control,

and then the Jazz came to Chicago and won game five. And now all of a sudden we're down 17 or 18 in the second quarter in game six. Scotty's riding a bike in the hallway because his back is tight. It just felt like we were running on fumes, and we were really dangerously close to losing that series. But that year started out the same way ours has started out. on fumes yeah and we were really dangerously close to losing that series and but that that year started out the same way ours has started out actually even worse we were eight and seven that year in 98 we had some injuries there was we had the whole pip and contract thing was a

contract stuff and he was injured to start the year and he was feuding with jerry kraus and um so we didn't we don't have the drama this year that that team had, but it's similar in that it's just human nature. The motivation wanes a little bit. Yeah. The edge, you lose your edge. We don't have any of the disease of me. Yeah.

I always forget. I need to go back and look at Riley's book. It's been more me. I think he wrote more, but then it became me, and I don't know whether it's me or more. But, yeah. Anyway. It doesn't seem like you have it.

We don't have it. Our guys don't have it. But there's a malaise that has settled in based on, you know, it's a long ways off until the playoffs start, and we just don't have that same edge that we've had the last couple years. And I'm perfectly fine with it because, like I said, it's human nature, and we've got to kind of in some ways pace ourselves and get to the end of the year. Well, the only really dangerous thing that happened

was when the Celtics just kicked your asses. It's really – they sent such a message. Always goes back to Boston. They sent such a message. I don't know. You guys were rattled after, I'm sure. Durant, I was thinking about Jalen Brown every night. How do I deal with this guy?

Nightmares. I've never seen anything like it. He told me he couldn't sleep. That was such a funny loss, though, because you just missed so many open shots. You probably should have won by 20 and the Celtics didn't even play well. You just missed shots the whole game. I was still encouraged. I always think that when you miss open shots in certain games, some games you're just missing open shots. But when you're playing against a really good defensive team that challenges every shot,

then the open ones are more difficult, if that makes sense. You know, like you can kind of feel in a game whether you're going to get whatever you want or not. So you like the defense in that game. I do. Yeah. Boston's defense is excellent, and they've done a great job. I mean, I think what Danny has done, what he's understood, which is what Bob Myers has done with our roster,

is this league is all about having a bunch of 6'7 guys who can switch and guard the perimeter and are strong enough to guard inside. And, you know, I remember when Danny took Jalen Brown, it was kind of controversial. Like all the Celtics fans are like, who the hell is Jalen Brown, playing at Berkeley all the way across the country. Um, but I had watched Jalen, um, that whole year because my son was a walk-on on the Cal team. Yeah. And I even drove Jalen to a couple of Warriors games, um, that year when my son would bring him to a game and sit in our seats.

I'm sure it was some kind of an NBA violation. I hope I don't get retroactively fined. But, you know, I was just blown away with what a great kid he was. But I went to a lot of the games and watched, and you could just see that he was a modern type player that is really effective in the league. You couldn't tell if he had the offensive skill yet, and I think that's still growing, but you could see the size, the intelligence, the defensive potential, it was all there. I remember after the Tatum pick, you texted me and you said, I know what Danny's doing.

He just wants these guys who can switch. This is really smart. And not a lot of other people in my life were telling me that. A lot of people are like, what the hell are they doing? They're traded down. But, yeah, I think you're right. I think we're now transitioning to this different stage of the league with this interchangeability, I guess is the word.

Is that a word? But you have it in spades, and you have the added bonus of having Durant, who's this seven-foot seven foot tall guy who can play four positions um you can really do whatever you want and i agree with you it just seems like it's an on off switch season and at some point everybody's going to look at each other and you'll rip off a streak and you'll go the one thing though the dream on thing with just like his motor and his personality and the intensity that he plays with, now that he's won a couple titles, we saw this happen with the Pistons in the mid-2000s

where Ben Wallace played a certain way and he had a certain intensity every night. And after you've been in the finals this many times, how do you sustain that for 100 games? And I think for the first time i feel like i've seen him struggle with that a little bit how do i keep that on button and with draymond he's always trying to find the balance between keeping the edge and keeping um composure you know that's what makes him great is that he walks that line right and sometimes he crosses it which i like you know i actually like that we have that edge because the rest of our guys are just so calm.

Nice guys. Nice guys. So we need that edge. It's not in the exact same way that Rodman gave that to us in Chicago, but a similar way, kind of like you don't know what you're going to get and the chip on the shoulder and all that. And you're right. He plays so hard, and he has to guard so many people and to do that night in and night out year after year, it's incredibly taxing. And I think he's doing a good job right

now of finding the balance. He hasn't been at his best, but none of our guys have been at their best. But as we speak, 15 and six, about a 60 win pace which is you know that's great congratulations 60 wins come on get get it together i think you're in the hot seat right um do you think the league's more talented now or in 93 so 93 would be the the third jordan season yeah with barkley carl malone rob Hakeem, all those guys. It was just all of a sudden super loaded. Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Reggie Lewis. It just went on down the line.

All of a sudden there was like 30 great players. And now it feels like we're super loaded again. It's almost like every team has – like New Orleans has, I would say, two of the top ten guys in the league right now. And they're not even a contender. What do you what do you think from a talent standpoint which generation was better well the generations are dramatically different and i think they're both loaded um what's different though is that for whatever

reason that in the early 90s we had a ton of dominant big men yeah and we don't have dominant big men anymore some of it is the rules um It's a lot easier to defend low post stuff because you can kind of zone and you can do some things that would have been illegal back then. And then I think some of it too is the way kids are being raised through the developmental system.

Yeah, we've talked about that, the AAU mentality, shoot the threes. Guys are shooting threes. It's more fun to shoot threes and to dribble through your legs at the three-point line and cross over a guy than it is to work on your tim duncan kevin mckay right moves and and so you just don't see as much of that anymore i think this generation of players is as talented as anything i've ever seen it's sort of shocking like i watched the duke game the other night bagley we were just talking about him oh my god

yeah i'm not allowed to you're not allowed to, my God. I'm not allowed to mention names. You're not allowed to talk about him. So I'm not going to say names. But I'm going to say that when I watch a high-level college game and I think back to my college games, now these guys didn't exist when I was playing. But it's different. It's a younger, so it's an incredibly talented crop,

but less sophisticated because the guys in the early 90s generally had played three or four years patrick ewing michael jordan you know they they played multiple years in college so they were more prepared and i think more fundamentally sound but the talent level right now just off the charts drummond killed the celtics last night and it was like one of those old school center performances which has happened a few times. There was the Sixers-Warriors game, which you guys ended up coming back and winning in Philly. There was a couple moments there when Draymond trying to guard Embiid where I think everybody had the same feeling, like, oh my God, he's 10 inches shorter than Embiid.

How is this going to work? But, you know, Whiteside, Dwight Howard's made a comeback. Centers have become less relevant, but also it seems like they've become a gimmick as teams try to figure out what to do against you. You know, I don't know if it lasts. I don't know if it's a November thing, but. Well, Detroit's kind of changed the way they're using Drummond, which is really interesting. You know, they're putting him at the high post as a passer and he's got a lot of dribble handoffs. And I think Stan has really done a great job with him.

He's making his free throws. He has a new routine. He does the one little dribble, lean forward, pops it up. Yeah, he's been good. I was watching a game with Ron Adams the other night, and Ron said he's shooting them like Oscar Robertson used to shoot them. Oh, wow. And I said, Ron, I don't know how Oscar shot free throws, but I trust you. I believe it. But no, I think that's the hardest thing for the average NBA fan to understand

is that it's so hard nowadays to post a guy on the low block and just throw him the ball and expect him to score like it was 20 years ago because of the rule change you can literally front him and get a guy behind him and play a zone these days tom thibodeau really kind of popularized this defense with kg in boston 10 years ago like and so d'antoni was like the the the counter was, all right, we're just going to put five shooters on the floor. So the rule changes in the early part of this century really have dramatically changed the game as coaches have adapted to them. Well, it helps when you have Kevin Durant and Steph Curry on your team. Whatever the rule changes are, it probably works.

All right, we're doing the mailbag. First one's from Sean Hardy. Now, I don't know, maybe I went through like 1,000 questions today in a couple hours, so I missed some. I'm sorry, people out there, but I did get a good chunk of them. A lot of the same question that I'm about to read, so we'll just get it over with. Do you ever think about what would have happened if you took the next job

out of loyalty and appreciation for Phil Jackson? Where would you be now? It's a great question. Yeah, it's a great question. Honestly, I would probably be back doing TV. You'd be done. I think that's a three-year-and-out job, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's just the history of the league. Be back with Marv. Which would be great. He would have lost two titles. That would be great. I mean, I loved my TNT days. Eight years of that, working with Marv, and it's a great life. But, yeah, I mean, every coach

in the NBA knows that you're totally dependent on your talent. And obviously, I ended up in this amazing opportunity. How close was it? Like 55-45 Warriors? 53-47? The deal was, it was the timing was totally off. If the two jobs had opened at the same time, it wouldn't have been an issue. But the Knicks offered me the job before the Warriors job was even open. So I was contemplating it for a few weeks, trying to wrap my head around it. I didn't feel it. It didn't feel right. But it was Phil Jackson, and it was the Knicks, and it was like coaching.

And, you know, wow, this is an amazing opportunity. But I couldn't wrap my head around it. But literally two to three weeks after they offered me the job was when the Warriors job opened up and they called me. And then it was like, oh, wait a second, you know. Yeah. I'm from California. They got all this talent.

Oh, my God. My daughter goes to Cal. Like, what am I, you know, this is, at that point it became pretty easy. One more break to talk about Uber. Don't be the guy who winds up parking 15 blocks from the arena. It's too cold out there for that. Request an Uber ride anytime with the Uber app. Uber is a safe and comfortable way to get to where you need to be.

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David from Ohio asks, if the 92 Cavs played right now, would you and Mark Price have been the Splash Brothers? That's fantastic. That's fantastic. It's possible. Yeah, but when you can't get a shot off. The semi-Splash Brothers. You can't really be a Splash Brother when you can only shoot a wide-open, spot-up shot

that somebody else has to create for you. You're the Splash Uncles. Siku in Boston, your favorite teammate ever, and why? Can I go back to the Splash Brothers? Yeah, please do. I don't know if you saw this quote. Nick Young, who's awesome. I love Nick.

He's just hilarious. Somebody asked him a couple weeks ago, are you now one of the Splash Brothers? And he wasn't playing much at the time. I think he just had a DNP. He said, well, yeah, except I'm the brother that just got out of the pen. One of the great quotes of the season by Nick. So he's been good for team chemistry.

He's great. He's always got a smile on his face. You achieved your dream of having a lot of characters in the locker room, benevolent characters. We got good guys. We got characters. JaVale is a character. JaVale is beloved.

He's beloved. Beloved teammate. Yeah, yeah. He's fantastic. Beloved teammate. Yeah, yeah. He's fantastic. So, yeah, we're lucky. We've got good guys. All right, what was the next one? Your favorite teammate ever and why from Siku and Boston?

You can use Arizona if you want. Oh, okay. Yeah, favorite teammate ever. He didn't specify NBA. Yeah. Maybe Sean Elliott then. I was going to say Tim Duncan. Yeah.

That's kind of cliched. Tim Duncan gets an upgrade. Maybe Sean Elliott then. I was going to say Tim Duncan. Yeah. That's kind of cliché. Tim Duncan gets an upgrade. Everybody calls Tim Duncan. But Sean Elliott was the Tim Duncan of my college career. You know, player of the year, unbelievably dominant and modest and humble and yet an amazing player and, like, great team guy. I mean, he was the reason we were, we went to the final four. He was the reason we were as good as we were and,

and that the program took off because he was, he was just a, as good of a player as he was. He was just a, like an awesome personality. Kind of the last era of when guys used to stay a couple years in college. Yeah, he stayed all four. You would have loved that college season. Sean Elliott and Glenn Rice, fantastic. Danny Ferry was – Yeah, a lot of good ones that year.

A lot of people you felt like they were in your lives for a couple years, whereas now it's eight months. That was the difference, right, with college basketball. Yeah. Oh, yeah, Danny Manning was in there. I think Danny stayed four years, if I'm not mistaken. And that's where the real difference is with college basketball. Back then, you literally got to know the players over the course of the years.

I remember St. John's. I remember Chris Mullen as the fat freshman, and then eventually it's like, wow, he's the best part of the team now. That's right. A couple Jordan questions. Kevin Murray, the most intense Jordan practice story you can tell? You don't have to tell the story about the fight because everybody knows that one. Every day was. There was no most intense it was every day he was the psycho every day he was psycho and that's i've never seen anything like it from any player that i've coached

or been around um practice meant so much to him and everything was a competition and he talked so much trash and he literally drove some guys off the team, guys who couldn't take it, because his whole philosophy was, I'm going to talk trash, I'm going to put pressure on you, and you better be able to deal with it. Otherwise, you're not going to be able to be my teammate. And there were guys he drove right out of the organization. It was amazing. What happens if him and Draymond are on the same team somehow?

Oh, man. That would be something. Would they get along or would they fight to the death? Oh, no. Michael would love Draymond. Yeah. He'd love him because of how hard he plays. And Draymond, I'm pretty sure, would have revered Michael.

Yeah, I was going to say. So I think it would have worked fine. Yeah. He probably would have tried to keep up with him in the casinos, which might not have been good for Draymond. He might not have had to talk with Draymond. Now we're having a time machine conversation about Draymond. Jason says, can you give us a story of MJ's inhuman competitiveness?

This is a natural follow-up question. We used to have this game. We called it the Jack Haley shootout. And so for some reason, every shoot around, Jack Haley, rest his soul, passed away last year. Great teammate, fun guy to be around. He was our 15th man on the Bulls. He wanted to have a contest from the hash mark. And it started out as Jack and me and Jud judd bushler i think the three of us

and michael saw it happening and he wanted in yeah and before long um there were eight guys who took part and we did it every shoot around and it was for money oh no and when michael would win you know you think about the hash mark. So it's out of bounds. He had to shoot from out of bounds at the hash mark, probably at 35, 40 footer. Yeah. And when he would make it, it was like he won game seven of the finals. I mean, it was insane. And there was money, you know, money involved. I can't remember exactly how much we shot for, but, you know,

he demanded the money right away, and he talked so much junk about it. Did Randy Brown come over and hug him each time after he won? Yes. Randy took part. Randy was part of the Jack Haley shootout. Is there a Michael Jordan story you've never told before today when you've just kept buried on ice all these years? Maybe it was the Jack Haley shootout. Have you told that one? I don't know if I have told that one.

Yeah, all right. We'll use that one. All right. One more MJ question. Was any player sneaky good against MJ in practice to the point that you were just shocked that they could go toe-to-toe with him? This is from Tyler. I guess the answer to that was probably no. Yeah. Sorry, Tyler.

Would MJ have won six titles without the triangle? That's from Sean in Warsaw, Indiana. I'm going to say no. I think less than six. I think less than six, too. I think it made him move around and give up the ball a little bit. Yeah. But the triangle can't work anymore at this point in time, right?

You've borrowed pieces of it, but it can't actually work the way basketball is played now. Yeah, I think it was hard to run back then. It took a special coach and a special group of players. Obviously, you have to have talent in any offense, but that was a – you know, you had Tex Winter who invented the offense. You had this incredible coaching staff, and you had a superstar who was ready to buy into it. This is my favorite Michael Triangle story.

Yeah. I wasn't even there yet, but I heard the story the next year. 91 finals, they beat the Lakers. They finally break through. And Phil Jackson says to Michael halfway through the fourth quarter of the clinching game, they're double teaming him every time. michael's forcing some shots and and uh phil says during a timeout michael who's open yeah and michael won't answer and he's like michael who's open and finally you know the third time mj who's open and michael looks at him says packs and and phil goes and throw him the effing ball. Right. Right. And this is what was great about Phil. Like he would challenge anybody. But he was, you know, he had this partnership with Michael, but he wasn't afraid of Michael. And so he challenged him. That was like the watershed

Jordan kind of buying in moment, right? That was the moment. And if you remember, Pax hit five straight jumpers in the fourth quarter, breaks the game open. And I think that was the moment where Michael realized as good as he was, he had to rely on his teammates. And that was the value of the triangle. Not that it made any difference for Michael, but it made all the difference for John Paxson and for me and for B.J. Armstrong and for everybody else. And that's the whole point of any offense. It doesn't matter what we run. KD and Steph are going to be fine. Keep people engaged. Keep people engaged.

Have them touch the ball. The president, Brad Stevens, is a big believer in that. Keep people touching the ball. Yeah. Speaking of presidents, Sumon asks, is the official ticket in 2020 going to be Kerr-Popovich or Popovich-Kerr? Who's the lead? Who's president?

Have you guys figured that out yet? We're going Popovich-Stevens. That's the ticket? Who's president? Have you guys figured that out yet? We're going Popovich Stevens. That's the ticket. Popovich Stevens? I'm just going to raise some campaign money. Popovich Kerr, right? Because he's older? Or you don't know? You haven't decided? For sure, it leads the ticket. There's no question about that. Malik wants to know, what do you feel an athlete's role should be in today's politically charged climate? What downsides do you see? I think an athlete's role is anything that he wants it to be.

I think, you know, it doesn't, nobody's required to say anything, but everybody should feel the right to say whatever they want. That's kind of the founding principle of our country, right, to free speech. And I think a lot of athletes are feeling responsible now to say something and to speak up and be heard. And the times are calling for that. And the repercussions are, you know, you could lose endorsements or, I don't know, maybe you'd gain some. There's probably a, you know, a yin and a yang to it, but depending on what you're, who you are, what you're but um the the main thing is i don't think you you should worry about the repercussions if you believe in something strongly enough that should outweigh any thought of an endorsement deal or anything like that

can you believe the nba like think about the last 20 years you spent in the nba probably like especially the lockout the late 90s and those weird portland team that weird portland team you were on, and just the way people thought back then versus how conscious of everything people are now. The league's uniquely positioned to do something meaningful here, and it already has been happening in the last two years. I agree.

I never would have expected that 20 years ago. You never would have said, you know who's going to really help things if the country's ever in a dark place? The National Basketball Association. It's just weird. It's hard to get used to. But these guys,

I talked to Ta-Nehisi Coates about it on a podcast a couple weeks ago. And there's probably a variety of reasons for it. But the guys that are coming into the league seem so much more mature and thoughtful and just kind of put together. And I think there's a bunch of reasons for that, and I think the NBA is really good at kind of looking out for the guys coming in. But I also think they're learning from generations before them.

LeBron learned from the crazy generation before him. These guys that came after him learned from his generation. And now just people handle their business the right way. Yeah, they do. And the league's done a great job with their leadership. Yeah. You know, it feels more like a partnership than it ever has to me. I think Adam Silver's done an amazing job.

It feels like we work together, and I think the league has given our players the right to feel good about using their platform. And because ultimately every guy is using his platform for something positive. Every guy has a platform. Yeah, everybody has a platform. But, you know, nobody is promoting violence, right? I'm like every one of our guys is promoting, you know, something positive.

It just so happens that we're in such a politically divisive climate that a lot of our guys are painted in a negative light. Yeah. As if, you know, what they're saying is political in nature, but it really is more about humanity than anything else. Speaking of that, Benji from Tel Aviv, Israel. Oh, yeah, people are emailing from all over the place. If Dennis Rodman had played during modern times with Twitter and the current political climate, how would that play out?

Maybe the North Korean situation would have been solved by now. Or worse. Or we'd be at war. One or the other. Would they have had to delete all of his social media accounts by like December? Can you imagine? I can't imagine. I mean, you played with the guy.

He like would disappear. You wouldn't even know where he was. Well, we didn't know anyway back then. Yeah. Yeah, but now we would know where he was because it would be on Twitter. That's how we would find out. 3.30 in the morning, some Vegas strip joint. It's like, wait, we have a game in Arizona in 12 hours.

Will wants to know, if you could change any in-game rule in the NBA, what would it be? This is a good question. I would get rid of replay. You'd get rid of replay? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Other than buzzer beaters. And I would have very, very limited replay. I think I agree. Yeah. My big passion here was getting rid of timeouts, and they actually got rid of some of them. It's good. The game moves faster, right?

The game moves faster. Yeah, it's got a different vibe. And you've got to be more prepared, and the players have to be more prepared late game because you can't keep calling timeouts. But I think the replay thing would enhance the flow that you're talking about. The fewer timeouts is good for flow, but fewer replays would also be good for flow. I'm with you.

I think buzzer beaters and then maybe three-pointers during a timeout where it's like, hey, we reviewed that over during the timeout, and that was a three, not a two. Even that one bugs me a little bit based on the Ray Allen shot against the Spurs, you know, the famous shot in game six of the finals in 13. Yeah. Are you saying his foot was on the line? No.

His foot was six inches behind the line. But because of the rule, the official was scared to death to not look at it. Oh, yeah, and the Spurs could have taken it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ray Allen's buried in the corner, and the Spurs have Tony Parker, the fastest guy in the league. Yeah. And if there's no replay on that, the Spurs inbound,

and it's a four-on-four, and Parker actually gets a way better shot than what he ended up getting. And so what's really tricky with replay is the unintended consequences. And so I would like to see it restricted to just the most basic stuff, buzzer beaters. That's smart. Even the three-point stuff, like, you know, if you get the call wrong, if his foot is barely on the line, I don't know.

I can kind of live with that. That sounds crazy, but at the expense of, like, the flow and the pace of the game. Well, same thing with the NFL. Like, you'll see the guy, like, Safarian Jenkins in the J flow and the pace of the game. Well, same thing with the NFL. You'll see the guy like Safarian Jenkins in the Jets game this week caught a touchdown. They reviewed it. They cut it down to one one-millionth of a freeze frame,

and the ball moved imperceptibly. But it was like, no, not a touchdown now. It's like, that was a touchdown. Yeah, it was a touchdown. Yeah, it definitely was. I saw that play. I thought the same thing. Which current player would you, as Steve Kerr, the NBA player,

in a time machine coming back, most want to play for? I guess this is basically what current player do you think would make a great coach? Oh, play for. Yeah. So which current player would make a great coach? Yeah. Andre Iguodala, I think. He wouldn't want to do it, but he would make it.

He's too rich. He's made like $200 million. He's going to have a nice retirement and do whatever he wants. So you think he could be a coach? Oh, phenomenal. Unbelievable basketball mind. Handle the media? And he's got the right edge.

Yeah, he would handle the media. He could do it with his eyes and yeah he would handle the media he could do it with his eyes closed but i don't think he will maybe you can make him like your 12th man guy who's kind of the coach but not really keep him around for an extra couple years too good for that oh you're gonna like this one caleb in san diego can san diego ever work as an nba city it feels like sports purgatory here with the loss of the Chargers. Yeah. I don't think San Diego is an NBA city, and I've been a resident of San Diego. Yeah, you love San Diego, to be fair.

Yeah, that's where our home base is. I've lived there since 2004. You just don't think they have the businesses for the suites? No, there's just too much going on. It's too nice. You go to the beach. You go hiking. You do whatever you want.

You play golf. And, you know, I was crushed when the Chargers left. I'm not even a huge Chargers fan, but I knew what the Chargers meant to that city, and it just bummed me out. But, you know, the NBA was there with the Clippers in the late 70s, I guess. It didn't go well. It didn't work very well. I don't know.

It doesn't feel like an NBA city to me. What if it was like a 9,500-seat arena just for all rich people? No? Okay. Bryce from L.A. wants to know, who had or has the biggest NBA entourage you've ever seen? Oh, wow. We'd have to go backwards probably for that one.

Probably, yeah. Should mention you did play on the Portland team that one year. Yeah, yeah. Actually, that team was relatively quiet in terms of the entourage. Jordan? Jordan had a big entourage, but a lot of it was security. Yeah, bodyguards guys and they would just play poker in his suite every night on the road because he couldn't really go out but yeah he had the biggest entourage but tim duncan tim duncan had the biggest entourage

when he's hanging out with rappers yeah um rahul wants to know which nba player could be the next tony romo aka just an awesome TV guy. Ah, yeah. That's a good question. That is a good question. I think J.J. Redick probably could. You mean the host of the J.J. Redick podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network? There you go.

Oh, shameless plug. Yeah. Well, you did it. I didn't do it. I think Dwayne Wade could be really good if he wanted to do it and if he was actually candid and did the homework. And I think Kobe would have really good if he wanted to do it and if he was actually candid and did the homework and I think Kobe would have been good

if he wanted to do it he's too rich how about Chris Paul? maybe I think all these guys have too much to lose Romo I think what do you have to lose doing TV? I just think they've made a lot of money

and they don't want to get people mad at them that would be my fear. Romo doesn't care. Romo's just going to say whatever. I don't know what NBA star is wired that way. All these guys are very conscious of what they're saying. That would be my fear. You even were like,

you 10% held back when you did TV, even though I thought you were fantastic. But there were lines you wouldn't cross. You're just saying that because I do your podcast now. Well, no, but there were lines you wouldn't cross. There were certain players that played ways you didn't like that you could have killed and you didn't. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.

And I think the trick in broadcasting is finding a way to make your point without, without murdering, without murdering the player, but, but the fans get it right. The fans understand what you're saying. And you're not being necessarily diplomatic. You're being pointed in your critique, but without personally offending people. And I think it's very possible to do that. But some people like the guy who's just going to destroy everybody.

Well, that's Tommy Heintzen now, who's like 85 and doesn't give a crap. Shoot the ball! He just gets furious. He's the biggest homer of all time. He's the best. It's unbelievable. So bad. He gets hit four times.

Oh, that's a terrible shot. What is the biggest change you think is coming to basketball in the next 10 to 20 years? That's from John in Rkjavik, Iceland. Reykjavik. Reykjavik, Iceland. Reykjavik. Sorry, John. What did you call it?

Capital City. Capital City. I have no idea. I don't either. It's hard to – I mean, I couldn't have ever predicted that there would be teams shooting 43-pointers in a game. If you told me that 15 years ago, I would have. How about 44 a game? That's what the Rockets are doing right now.

That's crazy. 44 a game. Nuts. Eric Gordon shooting 10 threes a game. Yeah. I don't know the answer either. I do wonder if the Giannis Anthony Davis type of athlete is just going to multiply. Yeah, but how many guys can there

be like that i mean the one thing that's happening right now is the center is becoming obsolete the traditional center we've got like five of them on our roster we got five centers on our roster and they all are niche players they all do something very specific and very well but the the the center 10 years from now is going to be like like the um anthony davis type i mean now durant durant yannis but but those guys are freaks of nature like how many are there how many people like that are there on earth who are built like that who are coordinated enough but the the point is of is the modern center is going to be versatile and a playmaker and a rim protector all in one. It's almost like what's happened with NFL running backs.

Like the Patriots have four different running backs who have four different sets of skills basically. Yeah. And they just rotate them depending. And the Eagles are now trying to do that. Bad for fantasy football owners. Yeah, but awful for fantasy. Jalen Rose believes, this is from Dave in Venice Beach.

Jalen Rose believes that the infamous Jordan flu game was actually the Jordan hangover game. So which was it, 1997 NBA champion Steve Kerr? It was the Jordan elevation game. What do you get when you climb Everest? You get like the bends? No, the reverse bends. So we were staying in Park City. I'll never forget.

Before the series started, Phil Jackson put it up to the players. You can either stay in a lousy hotel downtown because all the main hotels were booked, or we can go stay in this resort in Park City. But it's 45 minutes away on the bus and it's elevated. And Michael wanted to stay downtown, but most of the guys wanted to stay in Park City. And so we ended up staying in Park City and he got sick. And I think it might've had to do with the altitude. But I mean, the morning of that game, we had a shoot around at a high school in Park City and he was getting an IV, like he was a mess. So it was legit flu that may have

been related to the elevation. That sound good? This sounds like the Lee Harvey Oswald was the shooter. Joey Hickman wants to know, how would you coach against those late 90s teams with your Warriors? What would you do with MJ? Yeah, we'd have to put Andre on him. Andre would be our best bet. We wouldn't want to wear KD down. Right.

You know, so we'd put Andre on him a lot. But we'd take turns on him. You know, every time I hear this argument, like, who would win? Right. You can't say. Well, first, I can't really say. But more importantly, the rules, I keep going back to the rules. The rules are so different now. Right.

We talked about this the last time. And the threes, I actually think you guys would be favored because of the threes. You'd be getting 10 extra points a game on shots. I'm guessing those Bulls teams attempted 12 threes a game. Yeah. Maybe 15 at the most. They're also scoring 97, 98 points. You're at 168.

So can you imagine I'm on the floor with Luke Longley, right? Which happened all the time. But Luke Longley is not playing in that series. I think is part of it. Right. Yeah. Right.

So I'm on the floor with Luke Longley, you know, Michael Scottie, um, Kukoc, like that's the lineup that we had that lineup all the time. Yeah. Or Pippen,

right? What's, what are the Warriors going to do? Steph Curry, Draymond Green, pick and roll. Like, how the hell am I going to guard that? Or how the hell is Longley going to guard that, right? You're getting a lot of Booshler. You talked about that last time.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of Kukoc maybe at center. Yeah, yeah. Those Bulls teams were ahead of their time, though, in terms of the switchability. Yeah. You know, the team that the bulls would have thrown against us would have been harper pippen rodman uh jordan kukoc right and

switch everything and holy shit and slow the pace down like yeah well yeah yeah slow the pace down and try to get everybody to play 40 minutes out of those five teams are switching everything and and uh you know the bulls would have had an impossible time with curry and and we would have had an impossible time with with mj and it would have been it would have been fascinating but again the rules were so different that you know we were shooting a ton of threes that's more of a stylistic difference but the the rules were that there was so much illegal defense back then so that if you tried to guard Michael using kind of a zone, it was illegal. Now you can kind of do that stuff. So it's just a hard comparison.

You would have played when Sean Livingston was in the game. You would have come in, and then he would have posted you up. He would have torched me down on the block. He would have taken you. He would have been like, ISO! I would have posted you up. He would have torched me out on the block. He would have taken you. He would have been like, ISO! I would have been waiting for— Your defense was not that bad. You've made it kind of an urban legend.

You took it to Stockton. You at least made him work. I tried hard, and I made him work. I mean, you guys hated each other, so you really drove you to another level. I mean, that guy, I've seen him quite a bit since then. Yeah. And he's fantastic. He's like two prize fighters that had great fights.

Couldn't stand him back then. Michael R. wants to know, it's 1987. You're at a bar with your final four teammates from University of Arizona. Sean Elliott, Tom Tolbert, Kenny Lofton, and you. Who gets the girl you all want? Tom Tolbert did get the girl. Oh. No, so this is a great story.

So we had these team dinners. I think we went to Friday's. Yeah. And the waitress was just drop dead gorgeous, right? And the guys are all like, oh, my God, look at her, look at her. And Kenny Lofton was like totally trying to hit on her. Well, Kenny Lofton was like baseball player, basketball player. I mean, he had some swag.

17 years in the big leagues. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, he's like trying to get her number. And Tolbert not only gets her number, but ends up marrying her. Wow. And they're happily married. They got three great kids.

TGI Fridays? At Fridays. Amazing. You know, she's in college working at Fridays. And we have the team dinner. Tolbert got the Fridays. Amazing. She's in college working at Fridays, and we have the team dinner. Tolbert got the girl. Incredible. Kenny Lofton played 17 years of the majors.

You won seven titles. Couldn't, couldn't. Elliot won some titles. Everybody wins. Got nothing. All right, remember, if you want to hear part two of the Steve Kerr mailbag, which really goes in some crazy directions, you'll have to wait until Friday. I'm sorry.

We have Joe House on the line right now. Joe House, how are you? I'm outstanding. I wanted to do this MeUndies read with you because you love MeUndies. I do love MeUndies and it's also topical because we're going to talk about something that is creating some excitement in MeUndies. Yeah. Every year, millions of people receive the least liked gift of all time, underwear. Why is it least liked? I love getting underwear.

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Well, free shipping, 100% satisfaction guarantee. Go to MeUndies.com slash BS and you get 20% off. Again, MeUndies.com slash BS. Speaking of underwear house. Yeah. Tiger Woods, who just continues to hurt our feelings and make us stay in love with him all at the same time. He goes and plays golf with our controversial president who not a lot of people like at this point. But some people do.

Not a lot of people. But at the same time, he's playing golf and he's playing well, and there's just all these positive golf stories, and he's hitting the ball. He's hitting the hell out of the ball. He's looking good. People are raving about him. When do I drop my guard, House?

When do I buy into this? This time next week. So what I would say is, uh, this year, this year's version of his tiger back carries with it a couple of distinguishing factors that I think are a reason for cautious optimism at this stage. I mean, we're definitely in the zipper zone, but I'm not ready to fully unzip until I see a couple things. In the first place, last year's event, his performance at the same thing that he's about to embark on, he led the field in birdies. He was number one in birdies, but he finished 15 out of 17

in terms of the guys that actually played because there was still some rust to his game in terms of competitive golf. actually played, because there was still some rust to his game in terms of competitive golf. If he is able to replicate, I don't really care how he scores necessarily. He may still have some of that rust, but if he again is in the top three of these 18 top-shelf competitors with birdies or better, then I'm going to be excited. Like the zipper's going to go down a little.

The second thing that I'm interested in is afterwards, the post-tournament pressers, what is he talking about in terms of what comes next? Now, so far, I've very much liked what he said, which is I don't have plans. I don't know what I'm going to do in terms of the season next year. Because to me, the big mistake of last year was using the performance down in the Bahamas at this basically a fundraising event, and using it to kind of restart the entire Tiger engine with a real lack of concern or consideration for his physical capacity for being part of the Tiger engine. So he signed a ball deal, he signed a club deal,

and he immediately got his schedule filled up with appearances in far-flung places, including Dubai, which was the moment that marked the end of that return. He played one round, walked off a golf course, said that's it, got on the plane, came home, and went under the knife for the fourth time. House, I have an announcement to make. Okay. You and I are going to augusta this year oh and tiger woods is gonna and tiger woods is gonna be there and i'm i'm betting on l t gray

this is happening i've never been we've been talking to uh our at Callaway and the sponsor of the Shack House Pod. They really want us to go to Augusta. And I think it's going to happen, House. I think this is in play. If we're back, if we're together at Augusta, and I've been a handful of times. But not with me. If your version experience at Augusta includes Tiger, if Tiger takes your Master's Virginity.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a hell of a way for it to come out, right? I can't think of a better way. And I really feel, I'm buying in this time. I really feel like this is going to happen. We also have WrestleMania that weekend in New Orleans. Oh, that's New Orleans and Atlanta, not that far away.

It reminded me of, I think it was seven years ago when we did the Audi Challenge. We drove from Washington to Miami for the Super Bowl. Remember that? The Efficiency Challenge. We came in last. Who was the quarterback that won? Chad Henney.

I never liked him after that. Chad Henney drove 52 miles an hour to win the Efficiency Challenge. What did you win, Chad Henney? You were in the car for 12 hours. And his 110-pound wife in the car and no stops and the radio off. Congratulations, Chad. You're a big winner. Yeah, remember?

Over-competitive Bill was trying to figure out how to win that whole thing, and we quickly realized in a half hour that I should just drive 80 miles an hour. We should try to get to Miami as fast as possible. But we worked through the sun. We did that, and we listened to music, and we stopped at three Chick-fil-A's. So I don't regret any of it. And we had the air conditioning on.

Thank you, Audi. It was great. We needed it. It was Miami. It was good times all around. I'm really starting to get focused on Tiger in 2018. I think we need sports more than ever with how crazy this last, this 2017 dating back to 2016 has been.

And just in general, like, all good news is well received lately. Tiger might come back. Great. I couldn't be happier. Just give me some good news. Yeah, something on the weekend to look forward to. See, my hope for outcome with Tiger in terms of a schedule, well, my first hope for outcome is four rounds of pain-free golf,

including one round that has that Tiger feel to it. He had one last year. He shot 65 and had the low round of the day. I think it was the second round last year. Everybody was excited. He was walking after putts. He had a couple Tiger points at him. That's really when last year

zipper zone. The zipper was all the way down. I just want get through the four rounds. No pain. Have one Tiger. Even if it's only nine holes, give me a tiger nine holes, and then come out and say, I'm going to tap the brakes. I know I'm going to do this event in California in February, and I know that I'm going to do this event.

Mention one or two events through the course of the season that God willing and his body capable that he's going to do and say, of course, I'm going to play the four majors and then maybe a 10-event schedule comes into shape, that's going to really get in. Now you've got my attention. Like one event a month through the season featuring Tiger, bam, golf is back, baby. The last time we talked on the pod,

we broke down the top 20 players right now, a gimmick that we eventually figured out about 45 minutes in. I think we finally figured out what the parameters were. But I liked how it turned out. I liked the game. And it's been funny,

even since we did that, a couple of things have happened. One was, first of all, we did a top 20 20 but somehow 21 players were in the final cut which more than a few people were reminded both of us of how stupid we are that we can't count from 1 to 20 big surprise you and i got that wrong yeah who would have guessed andre drummond was on the bubble on the fringe we couldn't figure out whether he made it or not and we argued about it and ever since we've done that pod he's i it's almost like

he heard it he destroyed the celtics two nights ago he's definitely on i was thinking about we're at the one quarter mark right now and what the like if i obviously it's a ridiculous thing to do what would the all nba teams look like but i think it's a good exercise to be like all right what are the all nba teams we're at the one quarter mark what do they look like. But I think it's a good exercise to be like, all right, what are the all NBA teams? We're at the one quarter mark. What do they look like? You know I always like to have a center or somebody who's kind of like a center on there.

I've never been a fan of the just vote five guys. I want it to actually seem like a basketball team. I think the first team through 20 games is unassailable. Obviously LeBron, who's having one of the great seasons he's ever had, statistically. You hear me knocking on wood? I'm just knocking on wood. You say LeBron, I'd start knocking on wood immediately.

Well, we made the case for him to win the MVP last year, and he waited a year, and now he's going to win one last one, it looks like. I don't know. I'm fine with him whipping this team into shape, helping them, you know, letting them ride his back until the little guy comes back, and then a little bit of chemistry into January,

and then tap the brakes. Let LeBron get his rest for the playoffs. I don't think he's thinking that way. I think he's thinking, I'm going to have one of the all-time latest SmackDown seasons. Everybody can go fuck themselves. I think that's where he's at. I think that's where his head going to have one of the all-time late of the SmackDown seasons. Everybody can go fuck themselves. I think that's where he's at. I think that's where his head's at.

Wow. Incredible. I got LeBron and Giannis, James Harden, Steph Curry, who's been incredible this season and is somehow underrated, even though he's one of the best five players in the league. And then Boogie Cousins. I don't think there's any way Boogie is in the first team All-NBA center or whatever, big guy, whatever you want to say. You could make a case.

You could maybe move Giannis as the quote-unquote rim protector. Again, I'm taking liberties with the first team. But I really do think it should at least somewhat resemble a basketball team. But I think Boogie is the first team. I think he's been first team All-NBA. This is somebody I would not even have voted for for third team all-NBA the last couple years. Your reaction to that? I feel like it's deserved.

I tried to make a case. I don't recall where he ended up in our top 20. Oh, he was in the top 12? I was going to say, I wasn't sure whether it was top 12, top 10, but, you know, I felt very strongly and continue to about, you know, the no drama, you know, he always carries a little drama, but the no drama Boogie this season, and he's been absolutely unstoppable. I mean, I'm thrilled to have Boogie on the All-NBA first team.

He's having one of the great center seasons we've seen in a while. I'm looking up his stats right now. And he's really, truly a modern center. He really, truly has that three-point threat. Listen to this. 25.5 points a game, 12.5 rebounds a game, 5.5 assists a game,

1.6 steals a game, 1.6 blocks a game. It's like a little Hakeem-ish what's going on here. That's modern. Yeah. Plus he's somehow averaging seven threes a game.

He's making one third of them. That's the one. That's right. It's a little ambitious. That's the one. That's right. It's a little ambitious. He's making his three thirds this year. But just in general, that team's a really good example. Because here's what I have on my second team. Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons, and Andre Drummond.

How about that? How about that? How about that? You have both Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond. Yeah, because I think Davis is a forward. I don't consider him a center. Okay, that's fine. But I also think Andre Drummond genuinely deserves to be on that list. He is the best player on a team that I believe,

I wouldn't even call them a fringe contender. I think they're kind of a semi contender. I think that's a good team and that's a team that has a trade to make too. But I just think that's a good basketball team. It's an old school basketball team centered around a rebounder post player who can also go on the top of the foul line and do these little handoffs and guys who can shoot their three-point shooting stats are fantastic the weak link is reggie jackson who i don't love but that's somebody that if they want to they could upgrade that reggie jackson spot if they really thought they had a chance to make the finals which i think they do um but he he

demolished the celtics the other night my thing, if you're going to make one of the first two All-NBA teams, you've got to demolish teams at least once every 10 to 14 days, and he's been doing that. That was also an interesting reminder of the real vulnerability that this version of the Celtics have. Yeah. And they did smart things. They were doubling Kyrie, and they were just basically overpowering everybody down low. And the Celtics shot like at one point they were like four minutes up. They're shooting like 56 percent. They're still losing. It's just a bad matchup. And I think Detroit's a bad matchup for a lot of teams. when they, I want to see them play Cleveland. I don't know when that next Cleveland game is going to happen,

but I think that'll be a fun one because, you know, it's that Cleveland is still the litmus test. It's not the Celtics, even though the Celtics played the best in the conference, the first 20 games, it's Cleveland is still the litmus test. How do you do?

I think Detroit was serving notice. When that Boston game, like, yo, we're here. We're yo, we're here. We're not going anywhere. We intend to be discussed among these top four East teams. Here's where it's at.

And it was good to see Avery Bradley. Avery had a good game against his old squad. And Tobias Harris, who really they got for free two years ago. Just about anybody could have had them. But what I liked about it is they had a really good win in Oklahoma City. They had a really good win. That comeback win. That was really the bottom mark for Oklahoma City

until they went out and lost the next game to the Nets. Right. Or whoever they lost to. Their last three road games at Minnesota, at OKC, at Boston, all games were close the last couple minutes, and they won all of them. I think it's a legit team. Like Orlando, when Orlando started hot the first 10 games, Kevin Clark, our Ringer Resident Magic fan, was like,

this is ridiculous. These shooting stats can't last. This is crazy. They're going to regress to the mean. They did. I don't think there's a regress to the mean with Detroit. I think this is what the team they have. Their three-point shooting might be a little high.

We should talk about your boy John Wall. Okay. Just quickly. What do you want to talk about? Well, he's having knee issues which seems like a problem because he said last year was the first pain-free thing that he had with his knee first pain-free season that he had with his knee and that they fixed it and obviously they didn't fix it and he's hurt again and uh not good no i think he they they did fix, and he had an unbelievable tour last season,

and he came back this season in kind of what I would characterize as November form for him. He's never been a guy that's come in firing out of the gates. And he hurt. He strained the knee. Yeah. And maybe because of the past experience of it, it was a game two weeks ago that he strained the knee or whatever, two and a half weeks ago.

And it's an injury, an injury that happened in play, not a wear injury, not a tear injury. And I think they're doing the right thing by being cautious. Can I be nervous about it? The only thing. I'm going to be a little nervous about it if you don't mind. You can be nervous about it. I'm not nervous about it.

I want them to be very, very deliberate with him this season because the truth of the matter is they lost last year because of miles on, you know, the mileage on both John Wall and Brad Beal. Yeah, that's not why he lost. He lost because of Kelly O'Linnick laid the smack down on your ass. Then you went and had food with him on House of Carbs. I had dinner with him, and he's actually a fantastic dude.

And it's much easier to break bread with him now that he plays for the Heat. But that was fourth quarter of game seven. You're making my point for me. And then Kelly Olenek went off because the Wiz didn't have an answer for it. You keep telling yourself that. Listen, Washington, we're taping this on Wednesday afternoon.

Washington is 11-9. They're the seventh seed right now. Right behind them is Milwaukee 10-9. Miami 10-10. I think Miami is good. I like that team. Me too. The Knicks are 10-10.

Charlotte's 8-11, kind of lingering, waiting for Batum to start really looking like Batum again. This is a good conference. And my point is, with Indiana, with Philly, who the hell knows if Philly can stay healthy. But when they are healthy, it makes me think we're going to lose our over-under bet of 41.5. I think if Embiid stays on the floor the whole season, that team's— Did we get it at 42.5? Whatever we did, if that team's going to stay healthy the whole year. Did we get a 42.5? Whatever we did.

If that team's going to stay healthy the whole year, we're losing the bet. We're half. That's true. I think there's a scenario where the Wizards don't make the playoffs, and I just wanted to make sure you were prepared for that mentally. I'm not countenancing any of this. This is total BS. It's worth 20 games. Your answer's no.

If I was going to circle two teams that I don't think are going to make the playoffs, because I believe both the Heat and the Hornets are going to make the playoffs. By the way, Dwight Howard. He's back. He's 100% back. Incentivized Dwight Howard. He's been one of the revelations of the season. Here's the thing, though.

Only eight teams can make the playoffs. I don't know if you're aware of this, Will. Yeah. Yeah. So Indiana and Philly are not making the playoffs. You can put this down right now. Joe House said Indiana and the Philadelphia 76ers, neither one of those teams are making the playoffs this year.

So we have Celtics, Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto. I think they're all in. The last four spots right now, Philly, Indiana, Washington, Milwaukee. So it's going to be Washington, Milwaukee, Miami, and Charlotte. Who's making the playoffs this year? I think you're sleeping on Indiana. I think that's a decent team. If they stay healthy, I think that's like a 43-win team. I think it's going to take 44-45 for you to make it.

I love that I'm doing this, by the way. I love that I've ruined the rest of your day because you hadn't really thought about this, but there's a path. If John Wall's three weeks, not two, you have no bench, all of a sudden you're three games under, and now all of a sudden you're looking up

at this whatever. I'm fine with this. You know what I take comfort from? This conversation last year was you strenuously, and you enlisted some of the poor folks from the Ringer staff to come support this nonsense. The Wizards need

to trade John Wall. Now is the moment. Trade John Wall. I was right. Now he's a gimp. Now you can't play him. You should have listened to me. I'm kidding. I love John Wall. I was wrong. I was wrong. Now you can't play him. You should have listened to me. I'm kidding.

I love John Wall. I was wrong on that. I was wrong. Yeah, I agree. I know you're wrong about it. I didn't know John Wall was... 20 games in. Let's let the season go develop a little bit. Listen, we might be 20 games in, but we also might have 11 playoff teams.

Tate, is your mic on? It's not on? The important thing for the Wiz is to hang around 500 until Wall comes back and is healthy. That's all. The Wiz are fine. Tate from afar, do you think Charlotte can catch Washington? What do you mean, catch him?

Catch him. You're two and a half games behind Washington right now. I'm over the eight seed. Tate's in. Tate's focused on eight. Plus, Dwight Howard owns the Wizards. Every time you play Dwight Howard, he kicks your ass. The Wizards are not playing Charlotte.

This isn't a thing between the Wizards and the Charlottes. Well, you've got to pass them. You've got to worry about Charlotte and Miami. The Wizards are going to be in the 4-5 zone where they've been every year the past handful of years, except for the one year where we extended Randy Whitman one year too long. The Randy Whitman expiration date, nobody noticed that it said expired July 2015 or wherever it was.

We had to have him one more year. I agree. You're going to be in the 4-5 zone. It's the 4%, 5% lottery ping pong ball zone. That's going to be your odds. I don't care. You're not nearly concerned enough. I'm worried about you.

Your karma, you're creating bad karma for your team occupies. Bad karma. That's kind of a delicate spot right now. My $30 million small forward broke his ankle five minutes into the season. What worse karma can I have? That wasn't you. That was him. He cheated on the Mormons.

They don't stand for that shit. Get out of here. He cheated on the Mormons. That was Mormon karma. That was him. That didn't have anything to do with Boston. That was a Jay Crowder shove that there's a camera angle of that I chose not to make a big deal out of. He cheated on Rudy Gobert.

Gobert put some French shit on him. You think he put some French voodoo stuff on him? He might have. He might have put some French voodoo stuff on him. He could have. I believe that. Listen, we've discussed this many times on the podcast. Don't trust the French.

Definitely don't leave your girlfriend or wife around. Don't trust the French people. That's a fact. Last thing, MVP right now through 20 games, Harden or LeBron? LeBron. Yeah, I agree. It's got to be or LeBron? LeBron. Yeah, I agree. It's got to be LeBron. Just LeBron.

What's weird is there's a drop-off after two. Yeah, it is one, too. We're waiting for Kawhi. When's Kawhi going to come back? Oh, Kawhi's out of the race. He's out of the race right now. It'd be interesting if New Orleans can climb up and get a five seed with a two-man team.

We really have to start having a Boogie Cousins MVP conversation. If they win 48 games. I'm rooting for it, but that just smells a little bit too much. That's how Westbrook won last year. He dragged a team that was, you know, an underperformer. He single-handedly did it. Do you want one of my Right Side of History t-shirts after I make them for me and Zach Lowe?

Right Side of History for what? For not voting Westbrook for MVP last year? Well, you know, as long as we can put on the backside hashtag hoops perverts, yes. Because I told all those perverts out there to do the right thing and to not, you to not celebrate this perversion of proper basketball. Nobody listened. It was a perversion.

All right, we're going to bring Eric Weinberger in to talk about Eli for two minutes. Joe Haas, as always, a pleasure. Are you doing another Shaq Haas before the end of the year? We're going to see how the tournament goes and kind of play it by the seat. If we're in the zipper zone, there's nothing going to be, oh, shut up. So the answer is hopefully. And Dave Chang on House of Carbs this week. We should plug that.

Subscribe to House of Carbs. If you love food, it's a podcast for the hungry by the hungry. Joe House, thank you. Always. Quick break to talk about movement. Holiday shopping can be tough tough but thanks to movement all that gift giving anxiety can disappear with the press of a button movement watches only start at 95 dollars finish your holiday shopping get a movement watch for someone on your list

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Go to MVMT.com slash bill for 15% off. Join the movement right now. All right. Last but not least, as promised, Eric Weinberger, president of BSMG, boss of Bill Simmons Media Group, The Ringer. So happy to be here. All that stuff. You named your son after Eli.

That's right. I gave you the captain of the week on our Captain Morgan segment on Monday. Love it. You also gave away my age. You really? Was that bad? I think so. I think in the newsroom it wasn't great for me.

It's fine. We're the two oldest people at the ringer. It's over. So Eli, since that happened, Eli just gets kicked to the curb. Just kicked to the curb. He's like crying. Francesa loses his mind. The Giants fans really reacted in a way I expected.

Just pure love and anger and sadness. And nationally, everyone's... Have you mentioned this on the pod? I haven't talked about it yet. This is it. So you mentioned earlier, there's an outpouring of love for Eli. Yeah.

It's kind of the best thing that could have happened to him. It's an interesting point. We get it straight. I have a picture of Eli and me in front of me the giant's helmet yeah you brought two props i brought props um i love eli yeah but we have always felt the need to protect eli yes so uh fogelman's article on the ringer.com today yeah creator this is us wrote about dan fogelman today called a beautiful boy we we have

always felt the need to stand up for eli because he is such a gentleman and such a teammate very soccer momish with eli yes like having a kid on the soccer team that you're just very defensive and he's not going to come out and and he's not going to blast out and he's not going to blast the Giants. He has been, even early days, Tiki Barber going on TV. Yeah. And really not saying anything that bad. He just said, Eli is not the guy to stand up and give rah-rah speeches. Yeah. We all knew that.

We all knew what we were watching before the Super Bowls. We had so much fun at the Super Bowls. I'm going to let that slide. Unbelievable wins. Yeah. So'm going to let that slide. Unbelievable wins. Yep. So everyone's looking to the past. So there's a little nostalgia to this week. There's a lot of nostalgia.

Everyone's looking back many years now too. We love Eli. He was the last link to this fun Giants era that had really died two years ago. And I think we all think it's still, maybe we're fooling ourselves, that it can still be sort of fun. Maybe last year fooled us. I think it was just so shocking yesterday how it happened. But it doesn't happen to Jeter.

It doesn't happen to... It could have. It happens to Brett Favre. It happens to a lot. It happens to Joe Montana. During the season for Gino Smitho? That's the difference. That's the big difference. People were comparing yesterday, this happened to Favre. That was to a lot. It happens to Joe Montana. During the season for Gino Smith, though? It's tough. That's the difference. That's the big difference. People were comparing yesterday. This happened

to Favre. That was at the end of the season. Yeah. It's been an unbelievable run. It was a very edgy breakup. Yeah. I'm not even sure if there's a breakup yet on this. Oh, I think there is. You're in full denial. So he just

goes somewhere else. Well, I just think he's a prideful guy. Like, this happens. It's like, okay, I'm going to find a new team now. I think he loves New York. I might be in full denial that he stays. They draft a quarterback, and he helps the quarterback. I can't believe the coach is going to live through this. I can't believe it.

Right. Bob McAdoo. Bob McAdoo has plaques burst, called him repeatedly today on the Cowboys show. believe the coach is still is going to live through this i can't believe it right bob mcadoo bob mcadoo has plaques burst called him repeatedly today that's the best it it's a lot it's a lot to take in but i do know that we always feel this need to protect eli even during games when we're watching how bad it's going how 50 50 he is you're blaming evan ingram on thanksgiving for dropping passes i mean this season's a wash that's what's so confusing about it too there's nothing happening here just let him play it out and then you'll figure it out it's not for geno smith i mean it's just not

that it just doesn't make any sense that's what's so confusing about it but again i know that during games people are complaining about him there's a big group of people that complain about him. There's a big group of people that complain about him. And now it's another time to protect him because he just does. He would never. He was crying at his locker. I know. I mean, you just don't see that. So that's a big thing. Part that's playing into this. Everyone feels like they need to come out and protect him. This has always been a Giants fans versus football fans thing with eli where the football fans always picked him apart he's not that good he was lucky helma catch manny ham catch but if not for that he's not he's nothing he's never a top five guy i've made some of these

arguments yeah the giants fans are completely on the other end of it you don't understand you don't hear the guy's a gamer you don't hear theants fans that rip him throw by throw, play by play. I mean, it is rampant during games. Are they picking him apart like he sucks or picking him apart like just. Sucks. And every debate in the summer times is where does he rank? Is he a Hall of Famer? Is he this?

Is he lucky? He's not lucky. The Tyree cash doesn't happen if he doesn't stay cool and get out of the pocket. Does a 360. He's so cool. Seven holding penalties. And it just um you know everyone came to defend him when he had didn't he have some uh autographing scandal maybe like a

year ago yeah but everyone came out of the fact you're pretending you're like wasn't there some sort of he's just you like fogelman titled it beautiful boy i mean it just refers to like we we view him as the little brother that everyone needs to protect so it's weird and he has been amazing but you guys are all saying goodbye to him this week and yet he's not going away he might even i don't play in a game i don't know where he's gonna i just don't know where he's gonna go they should have waived them i really feel like the mistake was just wave them on wednesday do we really think Tom Coughlin is in a room like we have to get Eli to win the Super Bowl? I just don't see that happening.

But you're the one who said there's 8 to 10 guys every year who know how to drive the car, and he's one of the 8 to 10. Oh, that's it. So if it's the right car, he can drive it. That's why I just don't understand why he's just not staying in until he really has to miss a game. I want to see him keep playing. Well, clearly they want to tank. Clearly they want to have a top three pick.

I think he just said that's bullshit. I think he just came out and said, anyone who suggests that we're tanking is... Well, Gino Smith's terrible. We have an established track record that he's bad at football. I just can't imagine what's going to happen in Oakland this Sunday.

And then I can't imagine... Oakland is also not very good. I mean, they might actually compete and maybe... Yeah, they just don't have any... They have no athletes out there to do it. Oakland's no good, you're right. They did it at the right time. They're going to Oakland.

There was no way they could do this and have a home game. They might have beaten Oakland with Eli. They can't have a home game in Eli, but next home game is going to be Eli the whole time. I just, I'm conflicted by it because I love what he does. I love him as a player.

He's in the top five giant of all time uh top five giant of all time yeah what is the top five lt is number one lt is number one football player gif uh gif sims is up there wow i mean it's you know it's not you know it's not rosters of hall of famers i like here it's unbelievable teams i know, it's not rosters of Hall of Famers. It's unbelievable teams. I like your LT is the number one football player of all time statement. It's kind of controversial. I like that Tate is sort of nodding back there.

Well, Tate is from Carolina. The Chapel Hill, yeah. I mean, Jim Brown or LT. Jim Brown or LT? Jim Brown or LT. What about Tom Brady? Yeah. You want 17 years of the same quarterback

who makes Super Bowl every year? We love having LT. What about Tom Brady? You want 17 years of the same quarterback who makes Super Bowl every year? We loved having LT. There's no replacing LT. There's really no films being made of him, books being written. He was a scab. Love LT. Did some terrible things.

This is a difficult one for everyone to swallow. I want to listen to Francesa today and see if he's calmed a little bit it was i mean it was it was some great things happened i said this to you yesterday i'm going to say it again uh not just that he brought back an old school francesa performance really from the depths yeah but uh you know it was one of the things i liked about it was it was just an old school football story that didn't have this kind of negative lens that's kind of ruined the last couple of seasons where everything this is just a good sports story it's like wow they they really finally did it holy

shit where does this go is he gonna be another team it was just all this other stuff was stripped out of it sort of been talked about. I mean, it is. Giants fans all know it's been talked about for a long time. You just assumed it would be after the season. I don't know what you assumed. There was no one waiting in the wing to take over. But it's been talked about this year.

Let's see what Webb has to offer. What's the point? We just lost to the 49ers. Let's just see. So it's all been talked about. It was the abruptness. We just walked around. We're like, wait, Eli just got bench the 49ers. Like, let's just see. So it's all been talked about. It was the abruptness. Like, we just walked around. We're like, wait, Eli just got benched.

Yeah. And there was no real context to it. Like, oh, they had a discussion. Eli said, well, if I'm not going to finish the games, why start them? Let's see. I mean, I'm sure Eli was a complete mensch throughout every meeting. Yeah. I was like, all right, let's then play those guys.

I said to you that I can't believe he called up Archie or called his agent and was like, okay, let's see what the Jags can do. I just don't believe it. I just, I don't believe it. I said to you, I thought the streak... You think he's in the Hall of Fame anyway? I'm not as convinced. No.

There's people who have won two rings that aren't in there, you know? There's no way there's two Super Bowl and two-time Super Bowl MVPs and two-time rings that aren't in there. You know? There's no way there's two Super Bowl and two-time Super Bowl MVPs and two-time rings that aren't in. Does Sims count as two-time? I guess he didn't win

the second one. He's one time and I don't think he was the MVP. Oh, you're saying MVP. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. Maybe he was the MVP.

But I thought the streak, if it had gotten to 240 or 250 combined with the rings, I think it makes him a hall of famer. It's just going to be so unusual because his win loss record is like just over 500. It's a tricky one. To me though, durability should really matter with this stuff. The fact that you have a quarterback that can just play 16 games a year, no matter what's going on, I think is important. It just creates getting rid of him. Getting rid of one of these 10 quarterbacks

just creates such chaos to me in scouting, in preparation, the next three years, whether it's Darnold, Josh Rosen, like as good as they are, if they just don't have the right, now you have to just focus on the right pieces to protect, to build. Yeah, which was the fault pieces to protect, to build. Yeah.

Which was the fault of the last couple of years. Well, it was. There's no O-line. There's no running back. But you still knew the quarterback was going to be back there. There's no doubt about it. He's playing every down. Look at all these other teams.

Even if it's a good quarterback. Look at Houston. All right, he's already missed a season. That just never happened. No matter how good they are. Luck's missed like two and a half seasons, practically. Luck, no matter how good they are, there's four or five that just,

they play every down. Yeah. And he's one of them. And we love him. And if you get Josh Rosen, and you'll have a fifth kid, you'll name the fifth kid Josh. Him tearing up at

his stall is like yeah i was trying to think what other what other all-time quarterback would have would have been near tears people do it when they retire but not like in that situation you would think the guy would be like i'm standing strong eli's just like he's eli he wears it on his sleeve man like i feel like that's how my eli, if he got benched in his soccer game, and he got interviewed, my six-year-old Eli, who will be seven tomorrow, but if we took the iPhone

and we interviewed him when he got benched, he would tear up a little bit and be like, I'm here for the team. Bittersweet birthday. Yeah. I don't know.

Do I keep the signed to Eli from Eli? I keep that on his wall, right? He won you two rings, two trophies. Yeah. It's a good career. So they're out of it this year, huh? Yeah. That's the thing combined also.

This is the worst Giants season. Well, you don't doubt who's one of the four most fun players in the league, and he's gone in three weeks. I mean, the 70s, I'm a kid. They're bad, bad bad ray perk i mean bad pisarczyk bad this was this was as disappointing as it can be well especially you think like i still feel like they that there was a chain of events where they win that playoff game in lambeau if like odell catches the first td what tough they were they weren't one of the best three

teams but they were one of the best six or seven they still could have won that game and now that's how we think about the worst three that's how we think about the Giants. That's how we think about the Giants. They could have won the game. Should have won the game. They could have. They could have. They could have won that one.

But they didn't. Now you're a bottom three team, which I think needs to happen. I'd rather bottom out than anything. I think bottom two by the end of the year. I think Eli would have won you at least one more game that you probably would have regretted winning. What if Gino wins a couple games? Definitely not worried about that. Not worried about Davis Webb either.

I think Katie Bakes is also struggling because she's so... Katie Bakes has taken this the hardest. No, but she's also, in a weird way, happy that it happened because of the Francesa. Oh, the Francesa song. She's just so happy about Mike getting one last real riff. And you know what?

This says something a little bit about New York too. Because Francesco was the guy in New York forever. And when he goes away, who is the person in New York who everyone turns to and goes, what do you think about this? Everyone's so happy this didn't happen two weeks from now when it's going to be Bart Scott. Bart Scott doesn't care. He's probably taking shots at Eli. I think that's a real struggle.

People were really happy. Okay, it happened. Let's listen to what Francesa's going to say. Michael Kay had a couple great things too. And Kay is more close to the Yankees. And he's talking about A-Rod got treated better by Yankees management.

He was suing them. He got suspended for a year. That's the part I don't get is there was a more graceful way to handle this i think so and i think it should have been just we're releasing eli tomorrow i think it should have been a chance to tish and eli could have been sitting up there together i don't know there was never going to be a graceful way out it was going to be bad well it's like the old saying coughlin and cock who is your who is your everything ends badly or else it doesn't end.

Right. Who was your Boston guy that it ended? Well, we traded Nomar. I mean, that was like a nuclear bomb. Drew Bledsoe. There was another one. Drew was like our guy for- That was a real struggle too, though, right?

10 years. Yeah, and Brady came in. He was just better. I was like, all right, we're going to trade Drew. Happens. We don't have that, though. That's not going to be Geno. No, it's not going to be Geno.

This is just a clipping could be Chosen Rosen it could be no one it just could be it could be nothing but we stand by Eli two bowls

you got your helmet you got your picture two amazing Super Bowls you have your son named Eli that's right I think it's a win yeah I think you win

and Francesa Francesa comes back that's great I'm glad you're holding up I'm glad I'm back on alright that's the end of the BS pod on Friday. Steve Kerr, part two, the mailbag.

Don't forget about SeatGeek, BS NBA, 20% off your first time order NBA tickets. What else do we have to plug? Anything, Eric? Ringer.com. Great content on there. I like Nathan's piece today, too. Nathan wrote about Snapchat. Dan Fogelman wrote about Eli.

We launched a JJ Reddick podcast this week. We relaunched Binge Mode. And we have an announcement on Friday. Yeah, more to come this weekend. Yeah, we have something to announce on Friday. So stay tuned for that. That's it for the BS Podcast. Thanks, Tate Frazier.

Thanks, Tate. See you on Friday. I want to see them on the way so I never want to say I don't have feelings with them On the way so I never want to say I don't have feelings with them