The Bill Simmons Podcast - Steve Kerr Mailbag, Part 2 (Ep. 294)

Episode Date: December 1, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Golden State Warriors head coach Steve Kerr to discuss Draymond's chances of winning 'Survivor' (6:00), the one-and-done rule (15:00), the art of taking plays from other coaches (30:30), and the difference between winning a title as a player and as a coach (44:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Licensed in all 50 states. NMLSconsumeraccess.org number 3030. Speaking of the Ringer Podcast Network, we launched a JJ Reddick podcast this week. He did his first one with Joel Embiid. It stayed at number one on iTunes. Over offer. Over 24 hours. Good job by you, JJ.

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We announced today, you can read the interview I did with The Hollywood Reporter, that we launched a film division called Ringer Films that is going to concentrate on documentaries, shorts, non-scripted stuff, podcasts, non-fiction podcast stuff, a whole bunch of things. I can barely speak. So you can check out that interview. You can also check out the

world premiere of the first trailer of our Andre the Giant doc that we did with HBO Sports and WWE, directed by Jason Ayer. It is on TheRinger.com. 30 seconds. You'll recognize a voice. It is on TheRinger.com. 30 seconds. You'll recognize a voice. It's the voice of David Shoemaker, one of the Ringer's OGs, as well as the host of the

Masked Man podcast and the Press Box podcast. He's the one talking during the Andre trailer. So anyway, check that out. Big day for us. Very excited about Ringer Films. Very excited. It's phase three of what we're trying to do as a company. And we are excited to get

back in that space. Obviously, it's part of my DNA, going back to the 30 for 30 days and 30 for 30 shorts and all the stuff we did at Grantland. Very excited to get back in that space and work with some awesome people and figure out where it goes. So there you go. Coming up, part two of the

Steve Kerr mailbag, which we taped on Tuesday night, which has some great ones in it. He was awesome. And then we're also going to have the ringers. Mike Lombardi is going to come on, and he's going to talk about late bloomer QBs, Super Bowl favorites.

Can the Pats really make the Super Bowl again? A whole bunch of stuff. That's coming up later, but first, Pearl Jam. Wolf from Washington wants to know, what are the keys to creating a winning culture within the locker room? Is there anything you learned from the most challenging locker room you had from a chemistry perspective that you were able to make work with your locker room? Yeah, that's a good question. The key to any locker room is not the culture that you try to create.

It's the people that are in the locker room to start with. So if you have good guys, then shaping that culture becomes an easier job. Frankly, for me, it's a pretty easy job because our guys are fantastic and they're team guys. They want to compete. They want to play together. They want each other to do well. So now it becomes easy. The challenge becomes when you've got guys who are just not committed. And I don't know if it's possible to create a culture when you have guys who aren't going to commit. But you've talked about the Steve Kerr two-knucklehead theory. You can have the one.

You can have one. I think I wrote about this in my book. You can have one, but the two hang out. It's a Jeff Van Gundy theory. I'm sorry, Jeff Van Gundy. The two hang out, and they end up poisoning everything. That's right. That's right.

Danny from Phoenix wants to know, when Draymond starts seeing red, do you even say anything to try to get him to calm down? Is there anything you do? Or just let him go? Yeah, it's been an interesting sort of development over the last few years. The first year, we would just yell and scream at each other. I would scream at him to calm down. Then I kind of realized he needed the outlet.

He needed to be angry to play well. So then I backed off. Now we know each other so well. It's like we're like family. Right. You're like the dad. Well, yeah, or I don't know, or maybe more like a brother, like an older brother or something.

He knows that I've seen a lot in the NBA. He respects my experience in the league. He knows that I care about him. He also knows that I don't have all the answers and that he might have the right answer. And so we collaborate a lot. It's more of a collaboration now than it ever has been. But I try to keep him moving forward in the right direction all the time with an allowance for, you know, the occasional blow up because he needs it. This would be funny like eight days from now when you guys have to be separated in the sidelines.

It's coming. Steve was just talking about it. Ryan from Maple Shade, New Jersey wants to know, are you jealous that TJ McConnell is going to shatter all of your white guard from Arizona NBA records? There were some. I didn't know those existed. Who else? Who are you competing of your white guard from Arizona NBA records. There were some. I didn't know those existed. Who are you competing with the white guard from Arizona?

Who else was in that mix? You must own all of them. You better watch out for this, T.J. McConnell. You should trade for him and then just bury him on the bench. Never let him do anything. This is a weird question I had to ask, though. Adrian Castro wants to know, Could Draymond win a season of Survivor

if none of the other competitors knew who he was? I'm going to say no. I think the lack of food would eventually break him. He's tall. Tall people can't not eat for four days. I'm not a Survivor person, but I know that the other Survivors can vote that person off. Oh, he'd get voted off so fast.

He'd be gone for two fast. He'd be gone. You've got to three episodes. Two days he's out of there, yeah. This is a good one from John Marquez. Which team has the worst visiting locker room? This is the kind of insight we need in the BS podcast. Philly, we were there last week. There's these huge pillars uh two pillars in the middle

of the locker room what yeah so you um you try to get up to talk to the team and you can't see anybody you can see half the guy the other half are in the in the back behind these pillars and it's like you're peering around the edge to try to give this motivational speech hey guys we gotta where are you are you hey come come over this way. So you think it's strategic? No, I think it's just architecture. It's just poor architecture. Kangsan Kim wants to know your best story from your time on the 0102 Blazers. Oh, man.

Wow. I don't even know how you can narrow it down to one best story. Did you block all that out of your mind or is uh i think the my favorite stories are actually zach randolph stories yeah i'm the biggest zach fan on earth still in the league that guy he's amazing he's got a heart of gold when we got him he was an absolute puppy he spent one year at michigan state the stewardess on our plane used to call him the baby. So he would sit in this compartment with Chris Dudley and me. And, you know, Dudley and I were both like at the very end of our careers. Yeah. Zach is just starting. He has no idea about the league. You know, he's sitting in this compartment and wide-eyed wondering what the hell's going on.

And about maybe two weeks into the season, no, probably a month into the season, so it's like at this point it's like late November. You can tell he's just exhausted. And he goes, hey, guys, when do we get to go home for Christmas? I look at Duds and I'm like, why don't you take this one, Chris? And these questions came all year. He was so naive. And now you look at himuds and I'm like, why don't you take this one, Chris? And these questions came all year. Like he was so naive.

And now you look at him, he was like a pillar in the community in Memphis. He's done so much good. He's made so much out of his life. He's one of the guys who I point to and think, you know, look what he's made of his life. Look what basketball has done for him. Yeah. And look how he's used basketball to better his community. He's one of the great success stories that I've ever been around.

So when you see him, is it always like? Saw him last night. Yeah. We go to Sacramento, and we always share a hug and a smile and just the nod that comes with being former teammates. I love that guy. Who would have thought he would be the leader in year 18 on a random team? Rich from Seattle wants to know, how much did you get paid to go to Arizona?

I don't think he's an Arizona fan. I had to pay them to take me. Ben wants to know, why should the NBA ban PEDs at all? Why not let these adults put in their bodies whatever chemicals they want as long as it doesn't violate the law? Interesting. I would say spirit of competition would be a reason. Spirit of competition is one.

Health is another. And obviously there's ongoing studies about health risks and all this stuff. But I think spirit of competition is the big one. Lance Curry wants to know, do you think Jordan would still be revered in this day and age with social media and the 24-7 talking head news cycle? Oh, wow. What a great question.

Is anybody revered anymore in this modern time? We have this discussion with our coaching staff all the time um this is the weirdest time to be alive and what seemed 10 years ago like if you're if you follow you know international news you know the arab spring happens the arab countries are being liberated by twitter and sharing information. And what seemed like this amazing invention that was going to liberate the world now suddenly seems to have flipped into the exact opposite realm where we have propaganda and we have misinformation and we have smearing and everybody's just blasting each other.

And there just doesn't seem to be any good news at all during the day. And so, yeah, Michael would have been destroyed in this modern. Imagine like the first time he was caught at the Atlantic City Casino the day before a playoff game. Yeah. They would have been like. Stephen A would have been screaming. Stephen A would have gone nuts.

You know, why wasn't he asleep at all? You cannot be in a casino um anthony d wants you to know steve kerr's audible you're fucking unbelievable in this celebration after the mj shot 98 was the first time i ever heard an f-bomb on network tv not a question just wanted steve to that. My brother pointed that out to me the next day. It's a phenomenal TV moment. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you summed it up. It was like LeGarrette Blount when Brady and Belichick at the Super Bowl last year.

And he was just, you're fucking unbelievable. It was basically the same thing. But that's kind of the reaction that was needed. This is a good one from Devin. Top five shooting strokes of all time. Go. Ooh. Steph Curry, Klay Thompson. Top five shooting strokes of all time. Go. Ooh. Steph Curry, Clay Thompson.

Those come to mind immediately. Good one. Smart. Ray Allen, Reggie Miller. Reggie Miller. Interesting. Yeah. And I should say this.

Reggie did not have a pure classic stroke like Clay Thompson. Reggie's was a little more like Steph's, had a little left thumb in it. There was a rhythm thing that was very unique to himself, but just ridiculous range. Probably Larry Bird. I know I'm missing. That was nice. That was just for you.

That was nice. The problem with these questions, especially rapid fires, I'm automatically missing out on five people who are going to totally be offended i've had that problem lately with when i get asked questions like that and i know there's more in my brain but i can't access it but mike miller i was i was the underrated one for that question yeah i like bradley beal's jump shot. Beautiful. I would grab that one on eBay if it was available. You know who's highly underrated in the annals of shooting fame is Eddie Johnson. I played with him in Phoenix. Oh, yeah. My rookie. You're one of the most pure strokes I've ever seen and amazing shooting mentality, too. Like, he didn't care. Yeah.

He was just kind of shooting. He was one of those 21 points in 22 minutes guys yeah yeah i love those 20 000 points like he was one of those guys who nobody really remembers but was just an unbelievable scorer yeah we're gonna take a quick break to talk about tipsy elves once upon a time christmas day 2012 jaylen rose and I once wore ugly Christmas sweaters on national TV. We wanted the whole NBA countdown, the whole set to wear them. Guess who didn't want to wear them? Magic Johnson and Michael Wilbon. They didn't want to ruin their wardrobe game.

We didn't care. Jalen and I, we wore them. There's photos online. Ugly Christmas sweaters. It was great. You know what, though? It was hard to find one. If you want bragging rights for the most talked about sweater at your Christmas parties, listen up.

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see it changed. Two and done? Or zero and done? Do you remember I wrote a column for you? I know. About 10 years ago. At least five, yeah. It was, was it, how long ago was it? 2011. Okay, it's like six years ago. Yeah, and I argued for two and done, I think. Two and done. But I've changed my mind on that. I think players should be able to come out of high school and go to the league. The D League, now the G League, is so much more developed now. I think players should be able to bypass college, go right to the pros. If it's a LeBron, Kobe type, go right in and play.

And if not, go to the G League. And there's got to be some balance in there where we figure out a way to develop these kids who don't want to go to college, but we give them a chance to make some money and play but well and by the way that's a good business move because if the g league even if they put a little more money for player and payroll and all that stuff in the g league i would probably watch the g league you're gonna see more if marvin bagley or whoever from this year was actually in the G League right now, I would probably watch the G League. But I'd want to see... Tate's nodding happily. The thought of Marvin Bagley nodding on Duke, Tate's happy about his UNC. I'm not allowed to talk. Yeah, I know you're not. But the only way that works to me

is if you, on the flip side, eliminate the one and done, meaning you can go right out of high school. The baseball role, basically. Yeah, baseball is three years, right? Yeah, I think you do two for this. Maybe two for the NBA would be better, but I would like to see that for both college basketball and the NBA. And I know Adam Silver is already having a lot of discussions internally. I think it's something that needs to be done and will be done, and they're really looking at it closely.

It would be fascinating if you could pick a player and he could either go right in the g league or you just wait two years and then you get him after the two years you know basically you could stash the guy in college but you just wouldn't get anything from your draft pick i don't know there's a lot of variations draft him and then he goes to college like Like last year you draft, let's call him Marvin Hagley. You draft Marvin Hagley and then he's like, I'm actually going to college. And now you have that guy stashed almost like how when Rubio went to Spain. Or Bird. You remember?

Or Bird, yes. He got drafted and went one more year to school. But that's the whole point of this discussion is that there's like these huge issues that have to be ironed out. I think what happened to Ben Simmons should have made people change the rule. He's at LSU for seven months. The whole thing was stupid. He was on the wrong team and basically wasted a year of basketball that now you watch. You played him 10 days ago.

The guy's unbelievable. He's one of many. I mean, many examples of this that you could state. I think ideally what would happen is the guys who were, like Ben Simmons, ready to play right away, or LeBron, you know, they go. The guys who aren't quite ready end up spending a couple years in college and really develop. And the guys who, you know, are kind of in between,

who don't want to go to school, they don't have to go to school. I mean, something makes sense about all that if we can figure out, who don't want to go to school, they don't have to go to school. Something makes sense about all that if we can figure out how to. Junior hockey has a committee. Basically, you have to apply to enter the highest league when you're like 15 or 16. And then the committee decides. The committee is like, yeah, you're amazing. You're in.

That would be fun. Like LeBron in 2003 clearly should have just gone to the NBA. He was probably ready in 2009. Yeah, he was in 2013. What was it, 2003? I mean 1999. He was probably ready, right? Freshman in high school.

This is great. Aaron Zabel wants to know, all these years later, do you stand by the decision in Phoenix to pull the trigger on the Shaq deal? In retrospect, it was a bad move. Oh, I'm surprised. I would have thought you would have defended it. No, no, no. I mean, I'm not in the – I'm not here to like save my –

I'm not saying defend it because you made it. I actually thought it was really bad trade. Well, we went for it. We swung for the fences, but we disrupted what we had built. Right. And we made it for the wrong reasons. A little bit of it was financial, right? No, it was not financial because we picked up Shaq's deal, which was enormous.

But didn't it cut that first year? No, the same number of years as Marion. So it was not a financial deal. It was a swing for the fences deal. Didn't it cut that first year? No, we had the same number of years as Marion. So it was not a financial deal. It was a swing for the fences deal. And I was a young GM. It's the kind of move that, yeah, you go for it, but you're compromising sort of the long-term health of the franchise.

And that was the mistake. The reasons for making it were not sound. We knew we weren't good enough to win the whole thing. We had been in it for several years, kept losing to the Spurs. But it was a rushed sort of home run swing that we struck out with. And we went for it, which is admirable, but I just think we compromised. So you learned a lesson from that one. Yeah, I did. I still think if Tim Duncan misses that stupid three he made in game one, you might have won that series. Best team always wins, I think, in a seven-game series. Wow, he's out on the Shaq trade. I'm shocked by this one. Ty Carter wants

to know, when you look at a box score after a game, win or lose, what are the first three numbers you look for? I look at the opponent's field goal percentage, our assists, and our turnovers. Those are the three numbers. So if we – I tell our guys all the time, if we defend and we take care of the ball, we win. And it's generally the case. And so those three numbers usually tell the story. Favorite NBA road city to grab a post-game meal in? That's from Ben in Michigan.

Bonus points if you have a favorite restaurant on the road, also from Ben in Michigan. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm talking it's 11 o'clock at night. Yeah, so I'm going to give you, like, the obvious answers are, like, Miami, Prime 112. Right, right, right. I the obvious answers are, like, Miami, Prime 112. Right, right, right. I mean, everybody knows, like, certain cities or whatever.

I'm going to give you a really off-the-beaten-path recommendation. We go to Salt Lake City. We play jazz. There's a place called Valter's. Okay. And we rent the place out after games, assuming we're staying in town overnight. We rent the place out. We have a team meal there. We've gone in the last few years the place is phenomenal falters i'm gonna

have a follow-up question that i'm giving you popovich when he's in town he always asks the former spurs who are still part of the family to go out to dinner so i remember i did countdown once with avery johnson and avery johnson got the email it's like yeah coach asking to dinner he gets go do you are you now invalidated from those emails because you're on the opposite team? No, we went to dinner three, four weeks ago when we played them in San Antonio. But you don't get to go to the whole team. I went my first year of coaching with the Spurs. He had a team meal in San Francisco right after our game.

And you got to go? He invited me, and I said, Coach, it's kind of weird. I mean, it's like, you know, we just played. He's like, are you kidding me? Who cares? It's a basketball game, right? It's a dinner. And plus you played with like four of these guys.

Right. And so it felt a little weird. I walked into dinner, but there's Tim and Tony and Manu and, you know, several members of the training staff and the coaching staff. And once a teammate, always a teammate. And it was great. I had a great dinner. That's why people ask how long Popovich is going to keep coaching.

He has to keep coaching because his dinners are so expensive on the road. He's got 40, 30-person dinners that are his whole salary. He's the best. He's unbelievable with that stuff. Those dinners are are amazing craig hannon youngstown ohio i am a high school basketball coach i always admire your sidelines out of bounds latent games plays i know that's no higher praise for you than somebody appreciates that who is your biggest influence at the best he calls it slob sideline out of bounds slob play

creator you have worked with biggest influence well first of all i've never i've never made one up for myself you've stolen everything steal everything okay um and most coaches would tell you the same thing and what what you end up doing is you steal something and then maybe you tweak it for your own personnel yeah um but there's uh there's a number of guys in the league who i mean everybody talks about brad stevens he's great he draws up great stuff um i'll give you the guy you know one of the guys who i think is really underrated um dave jaeger um runs really good stuff yeah one of the fun things um that we probably all do as head coaches in the nba is you know you watch tape

over and over again. But you're watching a game, random game, and it's like, bam, that was a cool play. Yeah, what was that? And so we all have the same computer program. It's called Sports Code. And so, you know, I have a file of, you know, it just says add stuff, question mark, ADD. You started that the year before you even started coaching the Warriors, right? I did.

I was doing it for a couple of years. I didn't have this program. I was just figuring out how to do it. But you were copying. Copying stuff. But now we've got this program, so I have a file. And I heard Brad Stevens say the same thing one time. Like he'll have plays that are – he labels like Spolstra or Popovich or whatever.

In fact, I ran a play late in a game one time, and I was talking to Brad about it. And we were talking about this game, and I can't remember exactly who it was against or whatever, but I said, yeah, so we ran that play late. And he goes, oh, Kawhi? I go, yeah, we ran Kawhi because Pop runs it for Kawhi, right? And so that's how Brad remembers play. He calls it Kawhi or Pop or whatever. But there's this understanding in the league that, you know,

you just steal stuff and you adapt it and you modify it. And it's really fun. He ran the greatest play i've ever seen his first year i think midcourt and it was like a second left and avery bradley curled all the way around but ended up in the right corner and the inbounder had to throw basically a lob pass yeah yeah which i'm sure it had happened before but i hadn't seen it yet and now it seems like that variations of that play happen all the time. Everybody just grabbed it.

But he got him this wide open, crazy shot that I didn't even know was possible. I was watching the NCAA tournament last year, and Princeton was playing. And they ran that play. Yeah. It's a great one. It's a great play. And I run into Mitch Henderson, the Princeton coach, at the U.S. Open tennis tournament in September.

And we start talking. Great guy. We start talking. Great guy. We start talking. I go, was that a Brad Stevens play? He goes, yeah, yeah, I got it from Brad. Yeah, I thought I recognized that. And I'll give you another good story. When I was keeping track of plays when I was in broadcasting,

Fred Hoiberg had a lot of great stuff at iowa state and so i uh i clipped a play and it ended up really working well with our personnel in golden state and i started using it and i called it uh cyclone yeah and so fred the next year becomes a bulls coach and uh we were having lunch in ve at Summer League. And he goes, I noticed you ran our play. I go, yeah. Why wouldn't I? It's a perfect play for our personnel.

I go, in fact, we call it Cyclone. And he goes, oh, yeah. He goes, I go, what did you call it? He goes, Cougar. I said, how come? He goes, because I stole it from BYU. So this is how this stuff works in coaching. There should be a website.

Right. Just all these, all these names and the stolen place. Alan from London, Ontario wants to know, I'd love to hear you talk to Steve about back issues and how that might relate to Tiger Woods. I don't,

you're, you don't have the same back issue that he had. No, different issues. But Tiger actually reached out to me this past year, a really nice gesture. He said, hey, I heard you're struggling. We ended up talking a little bit. And his deal is different, and I'm thrilled for him. He's making a comeback, and he's apparently doing really well.

There's a lot of rumblings right now. About? About him getting his mojo back. I sure hope so. That would be amazing. That would be one of my 2018 sports wishes, is one more Tiger run would be. That would be awesome, yeah.

So his thing was different than yours. No, his is a different issue. In years, you've talked about it a ton already, but it is what it is. It is what it is. What do you think the biggest flaw or shortcoming of NBA coaches who aren't successful could be? That's from Louie in Chicago. What are most of them getting wrong if they're not reaching their team? Well, number one, most coaches aren't

able to take the job they want, right? And so if you are able to, and I'll go back to Brad, Brad was coaching Butler and I was in Indianapolis for the Big Ten tournament and he says, hey, you want to grab lunch? I said, great. I had never met him before. He called me out of the blue and we have lunch and he says, I'm getting all these overtures for NBA jobs. You know, what do you think? And I said, well, in my experience, you know, you got to take the right job because at the very beginning of your career you're the beginning of your career sets everything up you know pat riley taking the laker job out of the broadcasting booth you know phil jackson taking you know you have talent right so if you can take the right job in the beginning you set your whole career up and brad took the right job he didn't

have talent but he got a six-year contract and he had and he had danny and he had the and the owners too and he knew he was with as a partner. And the owners, too. He knew he was the right organization. The right organization. So that's the biggest problem. I think David Fisdale is, and this is not hyperbole, I think he's one of the best coaches in the league. Wow.

He's fantastic. He's got an edge. He's smart. He's not afraid to challenge players. But he ran into a difficult situation. And a year, less than a year and a half in he's already fired that guy's brilliant he's great but he didn't really have a choice he was in he was an assistant in Miami for many years he got a chance for an NBA job he had to take it but he didn't end

up getting the support he needed to stick around and And I'm sure he'll have a second act because he's too good not to. But that's my answer is that where guys get into the wrong or where they go wrong is by taking the wrong job. So Fizdale is one of those guys you coach against and you go, wow, that guy knows what he's doing. Really good. Let's take a quick break to talk about our old friends at stamps.com. Convenient, easy, reliable, flexible.

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Back to the Steve Kerr mailbag. Who's the second greatest player of all time behind MJ from Jordan P? I had Bill Russell on, and he's still my number two. I mean, I would have to say Bill Russell based on the success and the dominance of his teams. But let's say, let's reframe the question, only using players who I have seen play. Because I don't know what it was like to look across the bench and go, oh, my God, here comes Bill Russell.

And that's how I gauge all players now. And as a player, it was like when you look out on the floor and you're like, oh, man, this guy's really something. And so from that standpoint, that's it. Now I'm having trouble answering my own question. Now you have LeBron, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe. Hakeem. Hakeem. Shaq.

Shaq. Yeah, I mean, you can make a case for all those guys. I think LeBron, given the body of work now. Considering it's year 15 and he's averaging a 39-9 with 58% shooting. I think that's where LeBron is separating himself. I mean, he's always been phenomenal. But going to the finals seven straight years is insane. I mean, I don't know if people understand the emotional toll that comes.

I mean, Michael Jordan went three straight years and then quit and went and played baseball for a couple years. He was fried. This is the best. I am still in the Jordan camp, but that's the best LeBron argument is that Jordan was fried and went to play baseball and had to take a break and LeBron has just year after year of doing this year after year and he's still you know this is I I think he's gotten you know better and better

and he's still still at the top of his game so this is great you buttering up LeBron is the smartest move you can make right now yeah you, you might see me in the finals. Jamal from Birmingham wants to know, can you tell us what is the most Klay thing that Klay has ever done? Most Klay thing that he's ever done. First of all, Klay is the best. I mean, he really is. You love Klay.

I love him. I wish I was Klay. Not a care in the world. Yeah. The lowest maintenance player you could ever coach. And then every once in a while you get to see China Clay and, you know. Yeah. You see his personality emerge.

There's a lot more there than people realize. Like he's really sharp and witty, but he just doesn't choose to share much. And I don't have a specific story that I'm willing to share anyway. Fair. He's great. First question you've ducked. Yeah. With all your time playing and being around the NBA, Douglas wants to know,

what's the single greatest performance you've ever witnessed from a player? Wow. Probably Michael when I was on the Cavs. I think it was 91. Maybe it was 90. And he scored his career high at 69 points at Richfield Coliseum. Yeah. And it was, and I was like in my second or third year in the league. So I was still sort of in awe of the whole scene. Yeah. But that was like, I've never seen anything like that. He was so far above everybody else in what he was doing. It was so dominant. It seemed like unfair what was happening on the floor. 69 probably not probably like three threes oh yeah yeah if that yeah if that probably 25 free throws like just getting to the line anytime he wants and

the first time I guarded him by the way was like on a switch obviously no coach would ever have me guard yeah but there was a switch and he did like this head fake and he faked one way then he faked the other and then he went back to the original way and I was so faked out by the first fake that I was still there and so I actually stayed in front of him because I didn't I was too slow to go for the second fake he kind of faked himself out I stayed in front challenged the shot and he missed it and there was a timeout and in the in huddle, Lenny Wilkins goes, guys, you've got to stay in front of Jordan like Kerr just did. I didn't have the heart to tell him it was by accident.

Kyrie, you know, I've never watched. Kyrie watched in the finals and in the Cavs and stuff, but never like night to night. And the stuff he'll do that once a game to somebody, where his body's going one way and the other way and the Cavs and stuff, but never like night to night. And the stuff he'll do that once a game to somebody where his body's going one way and the other way and the other way and the guy is just twisted around like a pretzel. Kyrie's amazing. He is.

If it leaked that one NBA star was actually an alien but the name wasn't going to be revealed until tomorrow, we're going to find out this guy is actually an alien, not a human being. Which player do you think it would be? This question's for me. It was the one question I wanted to throw in. Giannis. I would say Giannis too.

I think Giannis, I think it's like a 50% chance. I'm not positive he's a human being. I don't think he can be. Do they test for that? They test human, alien? Apparently. Is that one of the tests? We'll have to check.

Was it more satisfying winning a title as a player or winning as the head coach? Wants to know. Ryan Martin. It's just different. It's different. It's equally as satisfying. I know that's not the answer he was looking for,

but in some ways the coaching one in 15 was just the most incredible moment of my career. I'm not going to say it was better than winning as a title, but it was different, and it was sort of shocking. First year of coaching, but the feeling is different because you feel responsible for everybody. When you play, you're kind of responsible for yourself. Well, you also have a little almost less control if you're a player, right? When you're coaching, you can control it,

but ultimately they're doing everything and you just have to. Yeah, you have less control as a coach. Yeah. But more responsibility is what I'm saying. Yeah. I like this question from Scott Laven because I agree with it. Scott Laven? Scott Laven. Oh. with it. Scott Laven? Scott Laven.

Oh. What was it like playing? I was going to say, Scott could just call me if he had a question for me. He wants to know, does the 99 ring feel like less of a ring than the others? In my opinion, yes. Because of the lockout? That's an asterisk season. That season was ridiculous.

Everybody played, Bill. It's a 50-game season. They still had to play. It's like a microwave season. It's your least favorite one of the seven. It felt less to me because I never got in. Oh, this is another one from Josiah, who's trusting the process in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

If you were elected president of the United States and had to fill your cabinet with former, current NBA players, coaches, and owners, who would you appoint to each post? Also, please run for president. Josiah wants you to do that. I'll give you who's your secretary of state. Sean Livingston. What's David West's position? Secretary of Education? President.

You're working for David West. President West. David West, Durant seems to think he could be something. He could do anything he wants. Yeah, like he could be the governor of California in four years if he wanted. He's sharp. He is sharp and only speaks when he has something poignant to say and listens.

Good guy for a bench-cleaning bra, too, potentially. Won't throw the punches, but will end it. Will separate everybody. He would end it, too. The Celtics have one good Aaron Baines as our bench-cleaning bra guy. How are we doing on time? 72 minutes. All right.

Two more. Okay. Mark Wager. Steve, you played in the greatest win in Toronto Raptors history on March 24, 1996. The expansion Raptors took down Michael and the Bulls. What kind of shenanigans happened the night before to cause such a terrible team to beat one of the great teams ever? You can tell us. Toronto is a wonderful city.

It is a great place to go out. So that was not a schedule loss, but a nightlife loss? I don't really remember. That was a long time ago. They won like seven games that year. It felt like a schedule loss, though. Should that be a 30 for 30? Should it be a documentary?

Let's do it. Your opinion on the mandatory mid-game coach interviews that pop famously hates so much uh unnecessary you know it's all fluff and and uh it's really weird you know especially in a playoff game the first quarter one's not too bad but the third quarter one like because you're in the game oh my god the first quarter one you know you can kind of the game's just getting going. You don't want to do it, but, you know, it's okay. But, you know, you're going into the fourth quarter and the game's on the line.

Everything's happening. And your PR guy comes over. Raymond Ritter comes over and says, you've got to go talk to, you know, Jay Adande or Chris Burke or whatever. I'm like, it's game seven of the finals, for God's sakes. And I don't think the viewers get much out of it. I think the in-game mic'd up stuff in huddles are great. And the league does a good job of kind of regulating what they show

and what they don't show. Have you ever been burned by one of those mic things? Never? Not one thing? I got burned by my lip reading the other day. I was yelling at a ref, and I said something bad, and they caught it on camera. But it was not the audio. it was just the camera caught me and i think we all get caught

with that stuff sometimes but well you know if i ran a network i would instead of having a sideline reporter i'd actually have a lip reader on the sidelines like what did pop just say to that ref well he told him to fuck off and then he said said. Just like, just bang it all out. Let's end on this one, because I thought this was a really interesting one. The LeBron game seven block is an incredible NBA moment, says Joseph M. What was your reaction in the moment? Could you even react because you're so locked in? It was probably one of the great athletic moments in the history of basketball. And it's happening in this pivotal moment of this game you're trying to win.

And you're this guy who loves basketball and has a sense of history and all that. Does it even register in the moment? Or how many days later are you like, holy shit, that block? No. If you're a fan, it registers immediately. Like, my God, that was the greatest thing I've ever seen. But when you're coaching against that, it's like, ugh. like you're like how do we not get the two on that well not really because you're watching lebron every night and you're you know that those chase down blocks you

know are his thing and uh so even as it's unfolding it didn't feel like oh my god we got this like this it didn't feel like this is an automatic two. It just felt like this is touch and go. And the guy who kind of made the play was J.R. because he made Andre have to double clutch by swiping underneath him and going for the steal. And Andre just gave LeBron just enough time to get up and block it. Obviously, phenomenal play. Did 17 make up for 16?

Do you still think about 16? I don't think about any of them. I really don't. Just going forward. Yeah, you just keep going. And it's great to have in your back pocket and it's great. But it's not like even with the rings as a player, it's not like I walk around going, yeah, I got five rings as a player,

two as a – like, yeah. Yeah. No, I just want to have a good day. I want to win another one, and I want to wake up and feel good and go get a workout and go out to dinner. I don't look back too much. But I realize and recognize how lucky I am to have played on great teams, and those experiences all mean the world to me.

But I don't think about those. I forgot to ask you, do you think that the stats have gotten really complicated with the way people are analyzing basketball now? And people have just gone to another level, and it's been mostly really good. Do you feel like we're starting to head toward a baseball situation when people are just throwing out offensive rating and plus minus and all these different stats versus just kind of like trusting the eye test too? Is there a balance that we're starting to lose?

No, I mean, as an organization, like we find the balance. We know what's important to us. Like I know PER is not a great stat. Yes. It's really easy to find names in per where you're like well that guy's not better than him why is this yeah or higher or whatever so we've we all find we all find what's important to us and i don't i don't really think about it from a fan standpoint now do you care about it for you from like plus minus lineups do you look at that and investigate it and

study it and yeah yeah we look at plus minus. I get a report every game. They basically don't use this one anymore? It's just not working? Please stop? Yeah, but you can also kind of tell. But it validates stuff that you're already thinking, and it helps in your decision-making process too. I like the plus minus for five-man lineups.

I don't like it as much for individual players because I think it's too random unless except that steph is like way better than everybody on earth and plus but that just backs up what we what we would have thought right it just backs up what we thought but but like it is something that steph curry is far and away like and we i mean we have great players on our team, obviously, Hall of Famers. But he makes us go. Yeah. And that stat shows it. Like, you know, we have lineups without him where we tread water

and we do a good job. But he's the guy who makes the engine go. And when he's on the floor, even when he's not shooting well, it's amazing how many games he's had where it's like you look at the box score and you're like, yeah, 5 for 18, you know, 17 points, 9 assists. Oh, he's plus 32. It's just amazing. I had a question we didn't use about how he was kind of like the Randy Moss

of your team where even if he's not having a great game, like what Moss did for the 07 Pats where everyone is so concerned about him, the space that he creates for everybody. And that's the thing. Like even that Celtic game when he didn't play well, I was still terrified. The team still has to worry about any open shot. His screens are really good now too. He's a great screen.

Yeah, he's probably one of the best. Stockton-like in that regard. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't cheat like Stockton. He's dirty Stockton. Your nemesis all right Steve Kerr that was fun this was awesome thank you for doing this thanks to everybody who sent mailbag questions too all right thanks again to Steve Kerr always great to do uh all the podcasts with

him I'm here with Mike Lombardi from The Ringer does your wife does your wife drink wine does my wife drink wine yeah a little bit a little bit yeah well we have my wife loves wine? Does my wife drink wine? Yeah, a little bit. A little bit? Yeah. Well, my wife loves whining about my faults, and she really loves wine. That's why I signed her up for TryWink.com. They made it so easy to get exceptional wines from all over the world, delivered every month right to our door. You know about Wink.com? I'm in.

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Fine wine, personalized for your palate. Coming right to your door. That's trywink withac.com slash BS. All right, let's talk some football. Yep. Okay, Michael Lombardi in the office. You brought me in today because the Sixers got killed by your Celtics. This is really what you just kind of wanted the day after.

You wanted just to kind of taunt me with it, right? A little bit. Yeah, I can see that. A little bit. As the mirror would say, a little bit. A little bit, just a little bit. I kind of got that hint. But your center didn't show up.

He can't play back-to-back games. Your franchise center. You know, it's unbelievable. And then the backup point guard hurt his shoulder, who I really like. TJ McConnell is really a good little player. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how they're going to keep him. I mean, he looks like he could play for a lot of teams in the league,

not just playing for the Sixers. I think that guy's really good. I agree. On the Steve Kerr Mailbag Podcastbag podcast asked him a question about is tj mcconnell going to be the best arizona white guard of all time is he going to take your corner break all your stats uh i wanted to talk i wrote about on the ringer.com i wrote an eli mailing almost mailbag right he didn't deserve an entire mailbag but like two-thirds of one but then i had a whole section about case keenum who one of my readers was saying he's an mvp candidate which seems absurd right but yet again they're a two-seed and he's played great and you and i have both been waiting

for this to kind of fall apart and i got this question started thinking about it did some research which i wrote in the column today about late bloomer QBs. And there's been a lot of them. This is not like an uncommon thing for somebody to just kind of seemingly out of nowhere be super competent. I think Rich Gannon's probably the best example

because he was pretty late. He was age 33. But I have the greatest Rich Gannon story of all time. I wrote this in my book. It's 1987, and I'm carrying Bill Walsh's books around, and I'm following him as we go through the combine. And he stops short and looks down on the field and says, who's that down there?

And I said, oh, that's Rich Gannon from the University of Delaware. He turns to me and says, well, let's make sure Mike Holmgren goes and work him out. I like him. There was like a three-second look. It was like a Malcolm Gladwell blink thing. It was a blink thing, right? So naturally, I go tell Holmgren, you got to go to Delaware.

And he starts giving me a hard time. Ah, you're making me go back. It's your hometown boy, which I didn't know Rich at the time. So we go back. We end up trading for Steve Young. But the instincts that Bill had on Gannon were right. And then Gannon never blossomed until he got to Kansas City. It took him 10 years.

It took him 10 years. But some of it was due to injury. Now, remember, he got drafted by the Patriots. Oh, believe me, I remember. As a free safety. We gave him away. You traded him for a fourth. You drafted him in the fourth.

You gave up a fourth. You got a fourth back for him. Great. Where's that guy? Yeah, he was on three teams. My point of this is there was always talent there that people saw about Gannon. It just never had the right match between scheme and talent. So I went back and I looked up the first really quality season for all these guys who were like late 20s or later.

Age 27, Romo and Matt Schaub. Age 28, Kurt Warner, Matt Hasselbeck, Danny White. Danny White was pretty good for a couple years. Yeah. Age 29, Brad Johnson, Brian Seip. Age 30, Steve Garcia. Age 31, Steve Young, although that was kind of dumb. He probably would have happened for him sooner on a different situation.

Age 32, Warren Moon and Trent Green. Age 33, Vinny Testaverde. Age 34, Rich Gannon. And that list does not include stan humphries and jeff hostetler who basically quarterback super bowl teams where'd you put is trent green on on that list trent green was in there yeah so age 32 yeah and then uh and then doug williams and jim plunkett who hit rock bottom and came back this happens a lot more than i think we think and it actually hasn't happened in a while are you making a case for Geno Smith here now I didn't think of that I was thinking Blaine Gabbert but maybe Case Keenum's

good maybe this is the next five years of Case Keenum and then you go back like think about his Houston situation right not a great situation comes in goes 0-8 his first year on what ended up being the worst team in the league. Goes to the Rams. He's playing for Jeff Fisher with your favorite receiver, Tavon Austin. It's not like they had receivers there. Maybe he just hasn't been in a good situation. And I think the unsung heroes of the Vikings

has been Pat Shermer. I think Pat Shermer's done a really good job. You know, head coach of the Browns didn't work out. But in Minnesota, he's really done a good job and i think case keenum has benefited from having a system that fits what he does and and theeland's made some incredible plays but you know they've had injuries i mean could you imagine if the clapper was up in minnesota and they would have lost alvin cook i mean we talked last night on

television about the devastation of losing zeke elliott devastating minnesota loses players no but minnesota's nine and two and they never mentioned they lost Alvin Cook. It's only for the clapper. But I think Shermer's done an incredible job, and Keenum's done a really good job of adjusting. But you and I are texting on the weekends going, this is the week it's going to fall apart for Case Keenum. We've been saying that now for two months.

Maybe it doesn't happen. I don't think it does. I really don't. And he really does have chemistry with Thielen. That's don't and he really does have chemistry with theelin that's the other thing he does have chemistry with their top other you know it's like brady edelman level at this point third and eight theelin's going one way or the other and kingdom's hitting them like in stride with like before anyone knows what's going on i think the team believes in him too look he's got this giant burden of teddy bridgewater's hanging over him and he's been why i don't understand that bridgewater

like i don't know where that is. If they do that, they're going backwards quickly. Is it possible they're using that to motivate Keenum and the team a little bit? I think so. Not make him feel too comfortable? I think so. I think they don't want him to ever just turn the keys over to him.

So do you believe or you don't believe? I'm actually believing in him. I mean, he's done some really good things. And the other thing I think that benefits Case Keenum more than those other places you mentioned is he can punt so the offense can not have to feel like it has to always just right because their defense is good like if you look at jacksonville's team and i know we make fun of blake tannick all the time but jacksonville's team has two personalities right they have the personality when they're in the lead defensively they're great and then when their defense is behind they're not as great right so it's the same thing with

quarterbacks when they can play from in front which case keenum's been able to do he's a much better player in some of those other situations you know he's pressing if i don't make this throw if i punt it back you know we're going to be down whereas when you can punt the ball and you can know you don't every down and distance isn't like life threatening i think that sends a sense of relief to him he's had a couple moments when it seemed like the wheels were about to come off like the redskins game they had a big lead yeah and he made a couple terrible plays bad throws in that game yeah and it was like okay here comes case keenum yeah this is the case keenum i was waiting for and then he kind of settled down i thought he

was good in the rams game right I thought he was really good in that. And on Thanksgiving, I thought he was pretty good, too. And he hung in the pocket. That was a goofy game. It was 930 in the morning, West Coast time. And I don't know. He made some plays. The seven cut he makes to Rudolph down there.

I mean, it's really good. I mean, he's done a tremendous job, look, of hanging in the pocket. He's taken the hits. They've done a really good job of their offensive line, and they have an identity of who they are on offense, which is critical. Most of these teams, they have no identity. So the quarterback has to make the play and do this and do that. I don't know.

I think there's a market for a guy who's a late developer. I do think that. And maybe it is. Like, I watched Blaine Gabbert on Sunday, and I thought he actually— I think Gabbert's been good for a couple weeks for what we thought he was going to be. I think if Jacksonville had Garrett now, they probably would like him a lot better. Yeah. Sometimes it has to—it's like training.

They have to go through it, and finally the game slows down. And maybe the game has slowed down for Case Keenum. Well, it's pretty much impossible for them not to get a two seed right now because the Eagles are going to be the one seed unless they just completely collapse, which I don't think they will. I don't think they will. To me, that's the MVP of the league. Yeah, I wrote that today.

I don't even think. People are like, Wentz or Brady. It's like, it's Wentz. There's no other way. Brady has a whole system in place and guys he's used to throwing to. Wentz is a second-year guy with no weapons. Here's what makes it even more remarkable. Wentz is, the Eagles have the third most, third and sixes in the league. Only Buffalo and Cleveland, those two high-powered offenses,

have more third and sixes than the Eagles do. Now, how is that possible, right? You say that can't happen. This is the Eagle. Well, it does because the eagles stutter stutter and then wentz makes a great play and then he makes another great and the other thing he does is he he'll do two or three plays a game when the defense has him and he gets out of it somehow and gets a first down and those are the ones it's when you bet against the eagles or when you're rooting against him like those are the ones that just ruin you yeah if you sit there oh my god how did we not get them? If you watch the Eagle game and say, oh, they're in third down, we got them now, this is when they're at.

The Eagles on third down average more yards per attempt than they do on first down, which is unheard of in the annals of football. And yet they're able to do it. They convert more. They're better at third and six or more than the Ravens and the Browns are at third down period i mean it's remarkable he's got something with urts that's been coming along although i'm still not 100

sold on urts being able to stay in the field for two more months jeffrey's come on um i wrote that he's there's pieces of rogers there's pieces of rothlisberger and there's pieces of wilson with him who else do you see with wins roger stall Stahlbeck. Roger Stahlbeck. Oh, I like it. You go way back. Tate's confused. Do you remember who Tate Roger Stahlbeck is? Do you feel like Lombardi's cheating on you right now?

Is this like watching your girlfriend with somebody else? I miss Tate Frazier. Tate's been cucked. He doesn't even have a jersey on today. I'm disappointed in him. Roger Stahlbeck. I like that. He's got a little Roger Stahlbeck in him.

To me, it's a combination of Stahlbeck and Roisberger yeah because he he gets the young rothlisberger he gets the long whistle he makes plays and and he escapes some things like when i i mean i was a redskin fan growing up so i watched stallback closely and we would have him dyrann talbert would look like he was going to get him chris hamburger's going to tackle him oh no stallback makes a play and he throws it down it was just so annoying right and that's to me is what wentz has done once makes plays like you just don't think so there is rogers to him so to contemporize the analogy that 360 spin yeah that rogers has and wilson has and nobody else has and he sees the field as i level down the field is remarkable he's not looking like flacco to check it down once he's in trouble he's going

to throw it up the field and if you don't if you don't have a coordinated pass rush against them you're going to like the redskins there's elements of the redskin game both redskin games that really gave him trouble and if seattle borrows from that kansas city had a little bit of it too if you the way to beat the eagles isn't you're going to stop him is you're going to have to control rush him and keep him in front of you so here's the here's what you would say against wentz and the mvp campaign so far hasn't really gone against any good defenses the best ones i'm looking carolina giants a little carolina and maybe the chargers yeah carolina had them in the charger game they ran the ball and the game there i mean you would have said the seahawks this weekend, but they've been decimated.

It's not the same. The Eagles. The Eagles. You know what the Eagles need? Eagles need a back. The Eagles need like two weeks of just really hard games because they're not going to happen. Well, they got this. So they got this in the Rams.

This game this weekend. I mean, they're favored by six, which I thought was insane. I thought. Unbelievable. It just seems like everybody has written Seattle off, which is dangerous, because Carroll will use that. He's definitely using it. Russell Wilson will use that.

Yeah, he's definitely using it. You know, they will definitely. The crowd's going to be into it, and that's a proud team that's not just going to roll over. It's a dangerous game. Who's lost twice at home. And two of their other three wins at home, they've been by three points.

The only blowout game was the Colt game, and they were behind at halftime in that game. So this isn't a team that's won at home convincingly. So I think this is why the line's going way up, because that allure, that cachet of being attached to the field is gone. People have gone in there. The Redskins went in there and won. You say, well, look, if the Redskins can beat them,

anybody can beat them, right, based on what the Redskins looked like last night I think this is a game and it's an important game for the Eagles because the Eagles need to get toughened up the Eagles need to have a challenging game from a really good coach against a coach and make adjustments and go from there and see how they handle it do you feel better about Doug Peterson or no I feel really good about their defense and Wentz and. And Wentz. I really do. So you're sticking to your guns still a little bit. Because you were out on McAdoo last year even when they were 10-6.

I mean, everybody gave me crap about that. Look, I think Schwartz is done. The Eagles lead the league in possessions inside the opponent's 20. They have seven. There's 20 other teams in the NFL that have two or less. Think about that, Bill. I mean, their defense is really good. So you're telling me at some point,

Doug Peterson is going to make me some money? Some point. Okay. The DVOA, I know you don't love advanced metrics. Because you're like my dad. You're a little bit older. Advanced metrics get a little confusing from time to time. That was an insult, Tate Frazier, by the way.

That was an insult. Just a little bit. A little bit. Advanced metrics for anyone over 50 it's just and by the way i'm 48 so i'm almost there okay dboa rams number one philly number two saints number three pittsburgh four minnesota five now here's where it gets nuts. Baltimore six. I like to know what they're watching. Like that to me, Baltimore, again. That's a lot of schedule.

That's schedule-based thing right there. Defense, couple shutouts. That's schedule-based. I love shutouts. They've had three shutouts, Baltimore. But do you watch Baltimore? I mean, if Tom Savage was a legitimate NFL quarterback, they're going to lose that game. You know?

So it's like, look, I'm not against. Hold on. I'm still enjoying a world where Tom Savage is a legitimate quarterback. What world is this like? If he was. I mean, I'm not against DVOA. I think there's relevance to it. No, I think it's good.

You have to shape it and frame it in a certain way and look at it. I mean, the Eagles have benefited from a really benefit schedule that's been friendly. I mean, schedules are about what quarterback are you facing. Right. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. You don't look at the schedule and say, oh, we're getting ready to

play. Okay, so you're playing Minnesota. They've got Case Keenum. Now it's a little bit better than you would have anticipated. But if looked at like give me the like read the quarterbacks philly has played from alex smith cam newton if he played half decent well that's one of the things you and i love to look at what quarterbacks did you play right because some of these teams like i think the rams are a pretty good example some of these teams are just like you playing a murderer's row of mediocre to bad quarterbacks. Yeah. I mean, like the Rams and the Rams, the Rams for somebody to beat the Rams, it's going to require the best defensive fronts have beaten the Rams.

Minnesota's beating the Rams. Seattle's beating the Rams. The Rams, you have to beat them with your front. I will say, though, because I watched that whole Rams Vikings game and I thought that was a good learning experience for them because they had plays that they didn't make. Right. Cup dropped a couple of big passes. Huge pass.

Came back next week. He was awesome. Right. But I think that was a good learning experience for them because they were plays that they didn't make right cup dropped a couple big passes came back next week he was awesome right um but i think that was a good learning experience for them because they were in that game and i don't think 24 seven was a good philly needs one of those kind of games yeah like are your young guys going to come through in this type of game jeffrey has been the x factor for them he's starting to look like the jeffrey that we kind of were terrified of on the bears qbr another advanced advanced metric. That's pretty flawed. It's probably better than quarterback rating, but I still don't think we've come up with a good, really good QB thing.

Watson is first out for the year. Keenum second, Wentz third, Brady fourth, Matt Ryan fifth. That actually sounds reasonable. I think that's right. I mentioned this because your bottom,

your bottom six going backwards, can you guess who's worst in QBA right now? Or QBR? Flacco's the worst. What do you think, Tate? I'm going to stick with Flacco, too. Mitch Trubisky, 22. When you're under 25 in QBR, it's a calamity.

So he's 22. Kaiser, 20. What did Sal calm? What? What did Sal calm? What? What did he calm? Kaiser Soso. Kaiser Soso. Kaiser Soso.

Kaiser Soso is 25.6. C.J. Beathard, 29.6. Hoyer, 32.4. He's not even playing anymore. Simeon, 32.5. He's not even playing anymore. And Joe Flacco, 32.9. Is the heist higher than these guys?

Come on, don't tell me the heist is higher. The heist hasn't played enough games yet. The best quarterback in the league, as we know, is Mohamed Sanu, who every time he throws a pass, it's for 40 yards in traffic. Did you see that montage of him? It was unbelievable.

Six for six, and they were all covered guys. It's really unbelievable. But you and I, I mean, the Ravens fans know. I'm not positive the general public knows. And there's going to be a moment when we can pick and bet against Joe. You don't bet, but I do. When we can pick and bet against Joe Flacco, the moment is going to arrive at some point

and it's going to be like a rainbow in the sky. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait. It's too good. He's terrible. Like this week against Detroit. a rainbow in the sky it's going to be beautiful i can't wait it's too good i mean terrible like this week against detroit like okay they their last they've had 22 plays over 20 yards this season that's all they've had their last in the nfl 22 and we and we're 11 weeks so that's two two games now the rams the patriots all those teams they're in the 60s and 70s right i mean

they're getting you know like how do you beat any, if you don't make explosive plays, right? Like, for every, if you get 12 drives a game and you want to score in the 20s, you got to make at least four explosive plays during a drive. Well, this is the Dez Bryant conundrum, right? Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Like, people could, like, you can get excited.

You won last night, the Cowboy fans. But that was because the Redskins don't even have a team. They have their teams on IR. We knew when Chris Thompson went out, that was because the redskins don't even have a team they have their teams we knew when chris thompson went out that was that was the over yeah that was he was even though maybe the stats didn't 100% reflect it one of the stats i love uh 20 plus plays by a receiver right 20 plus yards so it comes you're not gonna be surprised who's the leader of this category who do you think it is robert woods antonio brown yeah 20 hopkins has 18 julio jones 16 adam thielen 16 and then coming in at number five one of the guys who's carrying my fantasy team to the playoffs away from where i pick up temple's own robbie anderson he's amazing 16plus plays. He's one of the best receivers in the league.

It's remarkable. Nobody can cover him. He's fast as hell. I mean, he really is. So how does Robbie Anderson happen? If you're a GM and you're like, how the fuck did they get Robbie Anderson? I was talking to Matt Rule, who's the head coach at Baylor, about this. So he's a temple.

And people had, scouts had this perception that he was a bad kid. He has- Still unclear, by the way. Right. I mean, you know, I kid he he's he need he has still still unclear by the way right i mean you know he's i would say he's kind of got some attention deficit that you know he like he's doesn't his coach hit him with the newspaper this week yeah right so if he's he needs to be able to to be compliant with his his stuff that he takes and when he did that he's pretty good but rule wasn't like he's not like one of those guys you have to worry about being in North Philly. It was more about...

He's not like the Morris brothers. Exactly. We have to take a deep breath. The Pats have two guys in the top 10, Brandon Cooks and Gronkowski. I think we can call that Cooks trade one of the better trades we've had in the NFL where both teams are totally happy

and would do it again, right? You would think so. The Saints got the offensive lineman out of it. which they really need because their line's been I mean they've kind of had injuries and they've had to move people around and they needed to get better up front and they're running the football and I think that has benefited them and they weren't going to sign I mean it's hurt the rent it's hurt their passing game because the Saints passing game isn't the same come through you know the Saints passing game isn't I mean that's what makes me worry about the DVOA on the Saints is I'm not sure how good they really are on offense on on the passing game

I think we're sure yeah I don't think they're very good yeah I worry about like last week they really struggled to separate from New Orleans is no from the Rams covered they couldn't really get away from the Rams corners you know what's interesting about that game they pivoted mid-game for what they're trying to do offensively because they thought they were going to throw in the first quarter and they just couldn't. They couldn't move the ball. They struggled to protect. They couldn't protect. They couldn't move the ball.

And then they kind of switched to this power running game and unleashed Kamara a little bit. And that worked, but they did it too late. They had fallen too far behind. I think the Saints have a lot of trouble throwing, which is weird i've had breeze on my fantasy team all year he's just not not having he's not the same breed hey they have the great game of weapons either i don't think i think that's the point about the cooks deal i think they miss cooks i mean they replaced

a good player they got a good player back for him so i'm sure they would do it again but they really need an explosive play receiver don't you think don't you think they thought it was willie sneed though well i think they thought willie sneed was an inside slot guy i i i think they felt like they could compensate with it they felt like they could put anybody out there whether it's you know the kid from ruckers that you know whomever it might and they have michael thomas who's a really good player well he's colman from ruckers and michael thomas has been good so i think they felt like they had enough and kamara has been really dynamic but they're just not as explosive in the passing game as i thought so how does kamara go what was he third round how does that happen so kamara goes

to university he's a he's uh tate frazier he's a five-star recruit for mac brown okay and he goes to alabama and he gets to alabama and they've got all these backs so he decides to transfer and there's some debate whether what happened at alabama and all that he goes to Alabama. And he gets to Alabama, and they've got all these backs. So he decides to transfer. And there was some debate whether what happened at Alabama and all that. He goes to a junior college. He goes to Tennessee. Did he have to give the money back or no? I don't know. And then Jalen, I think it was this kid Hurd,

or there was another back who's now at Baylor as a receiver at Tennessee who's a really good player. And he was the starter when he comes in. And he was a good player. Looked like Marcus Allen when he ran. And so he's playing behind him. then tennessee's in this one back i mean the college football is so messed up with how they run the ball they really it's hard to evaluate running backs in college because they're all in spread 90 did you like him oh yeah everybody loved him camaro was a really talented player i mean you think that there were too many good

running backs in this draft i think it seems like it was like my clutter theory, I think, came through. I think Kamara got hurt by the fact he wasn't at one place for a long time and there wasn't a history of his skill set. Everybody loved Kamara. The negative on Kamara was not like Cook, which was off the field worries. There was some with Kamara. Or Mixon. Or Mixon, yeah.

I mean, well, Mixon was documented. I mean, there was some with kamara mixing or mixing yeah i mean well mixing was documented i mean there was there was no there was no implication there so no everybody loved kamara kamara was a good player it's just that what happens is the running backs is everybody oh you got it back you know like could you imagine if you put like if you're the raiders right yeah and you put kamara on the raiders like what people don't understand this is the hardest thing is when you're a spread team, the back makes the spread better. Yeah. That's what I keep saying about Deion Lewis.

When Deion Lewis is in the game for the Patriots. The rejuvenated Deion Lewis. They're a much better team because you're worried about him running the football in between the tackles. You're worried about him catching screen passes. You're worried about everything. And then it sets up everything.

When you just have James White back there, you're just worried about passes. And if he runs the ball inside, you'll live with it. Yeah. Right? You'll live live with it whereas now the Patriots have gone the other way they're under center more than most teams in the league are anyway which I think you have to be like the only chance you have to beat a really good defense in the NFL is to get under center at times the recipe for the surprise playoff team there's a lot of different ones we were talking on the phone yesterday I was saying the team that has the quarterback already has a decent to better coach but then hits their draft I guess the catch is you don't know it you don't really know until the season's going whether the

team hit their draft or not right the Saints are just a great example they just they nailed their draft right now quarterback in place already good home field advantage and now they're headed 10 and 6 with that said i still think they could slip because somebody is going to fall out of this i find it hard to believe that there's going to be three nfc south playoff teams well because they're going to play each other but i don't know where i mean if seattle wins this week if we don't think seattle's going to win if seattle wins i don't think seattle's going to win this week but if seattle wins this week, and Seattle's a funny team. They respond when their backs are to the wall.

That's why I would be very careful putting Philly in a teaser, Parole or Leigh in the sixth. I think Philly's the better team. I think Philly will win. That being said, I would caution there. But I think Seattle and the Rams could offset that south. I think the Seattle team could offset it if they win this week. If they don't, then, you know, look, Russell Wilson makes a lot of plays too.

Don't underestimate him. So we got Eagles will win this week, maybe. But either way, they're going to be the number one seed still. Right. I have Atlanta beating Minnesota. That was one of my picks in the league. I think Atlanta can throw in Minnesota. But let's say that happens.

Atlanta's 8-4. Minnesota would be 9-3. Rams win in Arizona. They're 9-3. Atlanta 8-4. Carolina and New Orleans both 8-3. One of them would be 8-4. One of them would be 9-3.

Carolina is getting four. You and I both like Carolina, but now McCaffrey's hurt. I'm a little concerned. And then Charles Johnson just got suspended. And Charles Johnson got suspended. So that really, like to me, New Orleans is all about their defensive front. Losing Charles Johnson just really, that affects them. Did you know that NFL players took PEDs? I never heard of such a thing.

Tate, you know this? Tate, did your season just fly away today? Charles Johnson, McCaffrey's got the banged up shoulder. You're fine? I'm fine. You got Cam in New Orleans laying for? Are you confident? You feeling good, Tate?

Feeling good. Tate feels confident. All right. Yeah, I think after this week we're going to know with the NFC because Seattle might just get killed by the Eagles

and we're going to be like, wow, they're done. Like, say goodbye to Seattle. But Seattle's got, I think Seattle has a tough schedule left. They do. They have a tough road to hoe. I kind of feel like say goodbye to seattle but seattle's got i think seattle has a tough schedule left they do they have a tough they have a tough road i kind of feel like they have to win this game that's what i mean i think this is all or nothing this is all in tate frazier says they're out if they lose he was on the gm street podcast he said

if they don't win this week which he's predicting that they'll lose they're i agree so we should mention you do the saturday sit down with tate you pick five games right you rip through them you guys did unbelievable for a couple weeks with laying out. And then what happened? You had the mush gamblers saying like, oh, Lombardi knows what he's talking about. They glommed on. You had one bad week.

The mushes went away and now you're on fire again. I think this is a... I don't want to say it's a throwaway game for the Vikes, but it's not a must win. They basically have to – they have at Atlanta this week, at Carolina next week, and then an easy schedule the last three. They have to win one of these next two.

I don't feel like they have to win this Atlanta game, but Atlanta has to win it. Atlanta has to win it. It's a must win. I think Atlanta's playing pretty good football right now. Atlanta's playing good football right now. I was telling you. You were arguing about it for a month.

Because I keep thinking Atlanta's just going to stumble. And look, every chance Atlanta gets in the fourth quarter, you're nervous. I don't care. Even last week, you're nervous. I mean, you're always a little concerned. Well, they don't have a real running back anymore. But my thing with that. But when you lose a running back, your offense shuts down.

Do you understand that? I mean, everything. That's the thing. It's like even when they're up 10, they don't have the guy who can. But they overcame it. The only team in America who can't overcome a running back losing is Dallas. So you just. The clapper.

He's the best. I will say, though, the reason I didn't give up on Atlanta is the same reason like when I watch basketball. I always look at the shots the team's getting. Like the Celtics last year, they were winning and they ended up at 50 wins. And a lot of it had to do with like in the fourth quarter Isaiah just made these crazy shots but the shots they were getting in the game weren't that good against good teams and I was always like deep down concerned like when we play a really good defensive team I worry about the shots I watch the Celtics this year they just get awesome shots like Kyrie just gets fantastic shots and he gets everybody else good shots and the movements there atlanta the first like eight nine weeks i thought the plays

were there i thought ryan was playing shitty he was missing throws you know and now he's starting to make them and julio's involved and i think that's a dangerous team even with sarkazian who neither of us like i i think i i'm i'm with you on atlanta i think atlanta can make the run and they can they have a pass rush now again too because beasley's back and and i think atlanta could play it like i think you have to match it up to who can can somebody compete against the eagle to me this thing everybody's got this backwards everybody wants to know if you can play against whence the key to beating the eagles is going to be can you match up to their their defense yes ultimately the front seven is their front Eagles is going to be can you match up to their defense? Yes. Because ultimately – The front seven especially.

Their front seven is really – if you can move the ball on them, like Eli did in week three or something when they had a chance, or the Redskins did early in the season. Redskins almost won that game. Redskins should have won the game. I mean, when Kansas City moved the ball. When you can move the ball on them, Carolina had opportunities, but Cam was so bad in that game.

But I think that's going to be the team. When they play a team that can't move the ball, like Chicago and Denver and San Francisco, they own them. Super Bowl ads. Pats are plus 240. That means you bet 100, you win 240. Okay. Yeah, out of all the Italians I know, you understand gambling the least. You're like the lowest at the totem pole.

Eagles plus 360. second best odds steelers six to one see i don't think anybody's buying the steelers i don't think anybody's i think the steelers feel like when you when you need a a long field goal to beat green bay with brett hunley at home too sloppy i mean rothfussberger's too sloppy coaching's a little shaky that's the thing it's a game football's about details and if you don't nail those details down like last night last night was the ultimate they should have called the non they should have called it the non-detail game because neither team had the details now the cowboys obviously were better than the redskins but the redskins four turnovers in the first half but the redskins everything they

do is sloppy they look like an unmade bed. Vikings are 10-1. Saints 15-1. Falcons 16-1. Rams 16-1. I don't think anybody, I think you're using your Boston Celtic logic. I think when the Rams have had to play against teams with good defense. There might be a year away. That people have an understanding of how to handle them.

Like Minnesota, really. I know they missed some throws. Minnesota took Gurley away. Yeah. But they knew how to play. Made golf, how to handle them. Like Minnesota, really. I know they missed some throws. Minnesota took Gurley away. Yeah. But, you know, they knew how to play. Made golf, tried to make plays. Right. The other thing is what I think is a little bit misleading about DVOA is

the Rams and the Eagles, these teams, and the Patriots don't as much as people think they are. Piling it on. They pile it on. Yeah. And they get, like, the Rams, the Eagles are, like, the best team in the fourth quarter. The Rams are one of the best teams in terms of, they keep scoring.

Yeah. And they keep- But we like that though. We like when the teams are hungry. Right. And I think that's really good because- But you say it's deceiving for the- Sometimes it's a little bit deceiving.

Here's why I think the Rams are a little frisky as a sleeper for the Super Bowl. They're fucking fast. It's a fast team. You watch them and it's like offense defense just guys flying around and round two i'm thinking like you got to go to la in round two that everybody's gonna be flying the rams are better on they're actually better on the road than they are at home i mean the rams are really good on the road they've done a nice job with that but i i think the rams look the rams when you can score points like the rams can score points

you're always going to be asleep you're always going to be a threat to somebody because you get going. But remember, the 12 teams that get to the playoffs or the final eight, those usually have really good coordinators on both sides of the ball, and that's usually the chess match starts to take over. And that's when really, because there's some teams, and Wade's done a really good job. Tate's Panthers, 20-1, cross them off? No, you know, done a really good job. Tate's Panthers, 20-1. Cross them off? No. Not crossing them off.

No, because Cam hasn't even played half decent yet. There you go, Tate. Cam, I keep waiting for Cam to play better, but to play close to being in the NBA. He didn't even play close to that. They could be a dangerous team. I think the Charles Johnson injury really hurts them, though. I mean, that might knock them out of the playoffs. Yeah think it could whatever so we named pats eagles steelers vikings saints falcons rams maybe panthers that's eight

teams usually when we go into the playoffs we have seven teams that we think are super bowl teams i think there's probably that'd be the, I think so. I don't think we missed anybody. Because here are a couple other options. The Blake Tannick at 31. Crossing them off. I can't see how. You can't win. Look, if they go play somebody and get the lead on them. That's what my fear is.

They go to New England and they get a 3-0 lead. New England. Here's what New England will do to them. They hit the shit out of Brady. Here's what New England will do. New England will figure out that if we keep them in base defense and we keep their pass rushers off the field and we keep Calais Campbell from lining up a defensive tackle

and rushing over the guard and we keep them at end and we play a nickel game out of base personnel, which they're very capable of doing because they can run the ball, that leaves them on the field. They'll go no huddle and Belichick will do everything in his power to get a 14 point lead or a 10 point lead in the first quarter and then make Blake Tannick have to play then I think it becomes a struggle I don't that's the formula for playing Jacksonville make them play base defense on first and second down throw the ball out of their base don't try to run the ball into their base keep their worst

defensive lineman on the field throw it and get the lead and that's how you play them but most people just don't do that it's like last night it drives you crazy the redskins are the worst two-minute team in the league just why won't we line up in two minutes bellatate will line up in two minutes to start the game right the jags i would say they would study the sanchez jets playoff pats game that's their recipe right well they got a ton of the jets use sanchez in that game that's how you use portals right exactly make sand make it so sanchez can't but portals isn't even as good as sanchez he's not he's like a portman portman sanchez who's not the week uh jags are 30 to 1 chargers 40 to 1 i mean look the charges i would say they're the

third best afc team even with the shaky coach if Belichick changed sides at halftime of a Charger game, he probably would. I mean, think about it. What would the Cowboys record be if Belichick was coaching the team? I think the Chargers are good. They are good. It would be hilarious if they don't make the playoffs. Everyone else I'm crossing off.

Chiefs, Titans, Ravens, Bengals, Raiders. The Chiefs, they're the MVP race for Alex Smith. It's over. Chiefs are not a good team. We should mention you're on the Ring around NFL show with Tate. You do the Sunday Nighters we do Sunday Night and now we have Tate Frazier hosting three and out he is hosting a show

we are just working Tate like a drum look at him he's all tired before you go you watch Godfather 1 and 2 on Thanksgiving loved it it was so good this time when you watched it did you pick out anything every time I watched the godfather even though i've seen it 175 times i always learn one new thing or or notice one thing that i never noticed uh no i don't know

i fall in love inside and i fall in love with different like i like i always love clemenza but like sometimes like this time clemenza's and clemenza's the uh he's not the mvp of it but he's like best supporting i just like i want more clemenza when i'm watching this is amazing i want more i want more frank pantanglia and i want more clemenza like to me that's one of the unsung uh greatest decisions ever made uh clemenza's actor refused to do the two he wanted more money and they replaced him with frank pantangeli which was frankie five fingers i mean that that could it could there have been a better reply i mean other than lou garrick replacing wally pip i can't imagine of a better one could you tom brady replacing drew but maybe how about not doing godfather 2 come on clemenza how do you turn

that down what are you doing how do you turn that down? Clemenza, what are you doing? How do you turn that down? What are your other options? What are you on, like an NBC sitcom? That was outrageous. I noticed the flaws. I was zooming in on it on Thanksgiving. Diane Keaton takes him back pretty fast there. He goes to see her. She's a school teacher.

She's got like 25 kids. They're going, heading to some park or leaving a park. He stops her. She hasn't seen him in five years. He's got an entourage. He's got an entourage. Hasn't heard from him at all. I mean, they don't have mafia written on the side of the car, but even the kids knew he

was mafia, right? Goes to Italy, married somebody else. Yeah. Never told her. He's like, hey, Kay, you and I are meant to be together. Come with me. Within three minutes, just leaves the kids.

She's gone. She's getting in the car. It's like, what about your kids? The movies are only three hours long. I gotta condense everything in there. What happened to the 25 kids? How did they get home from the park? They called the parents, picked them up at the school corner. I get that one. There's been a lot of horrible wives and girlfriends in movies that i love and i think k corey leone's performance in godfather one is is the least redeemable performance by a female that i can remember everything about her is terrible every

scene with her she's terrible i always wanted like i always would it's like come on k that's the one thing about the godfather i always feel like if if if sonny would have lived or if michael could have come back with abelonia and like if things like right it's a great what if movie yeah it's a great lot of what is yeah like did they have to kill luca brazzi 40 minutes in i could have used more lu Luca, you know? Yeah, like two more Luca scenes. That's the thing I always say. How Michael would have been different if Fabrizio wouldn't have killed his wife? I don't know. Sonny was destined to die.

Yeah, I think that was. I mean, that line comes out when Vito Corleone says, I never thought Sonny was a great Don, God rest his soul. I know, he kind of killed him. That was the kiss of death right there. He definitely. I don't want my father saying, he would have probably said,

I never wanted my son to be a barber. He was probably right. I did my first year at Page Two on ESPN. I did a Red Sox column, end of the year awards for the 2001 Red Sox. And I used like 50 Godfather quotes and handed out the Godfather quotes. So I watched it and I was writing down, cause they didn't have like the internet, they didn't have all this stuff online.

So I'm writing and transcribing the quotes that I was like so deep in. It's, it's just the best. It's for, it's, it's, I like one more than two, but I think, I think, I think two is probably a better movie. One's a little dated. It's a little slow. It's got a couple abrupt edits. I think Coppola knew what he was doing more with two.

But don't you feel like one's more entertaining? Don't you think one we could have? The Godfather 4, where they actually went back and relived the 50s. There's so much more before veto gets killed that that could have been told a story if netflix said we're making we're turning godfather into a series oh would you be okay with that or no i would be all in i would be all in can we can we agree that the italians are being underrepresented right now with with yeah movies tv yeah i actually think like it's like Godfather, Sopranos, Bronx Tale,

Goodfellas, Casino. And then what else do we have? Nothing. We got bumped out by the cartel. That's why we're watching the same five things over and over again. I know. Come up with a new one.

Sopranos hasn't been out for 10 years. I know. I wish we could get something. I need another Mafia something where I know I'm not supposed to be rooting for these guys, but I'm 100% rooting for them. That's what I want. I think that would be, I think we need something like that.

By the way, comeback player of the year, Connie Corleone in Godfather 2. Really good, strong. Came back. Really great. Really, family was important. Family first proved outright. Could have fallen apart after one. I mean, she went on the vacation with Queen Mary and she came back.

It was perfect. I'm, she went on the vacation with Queen Mary and she came back. It was perfect. I'm not your travel agent. Really? She sticks with Michael? She's like, when you killed my husband, I swore I was going to forgive you, but now I'm here. I'm here to help you. And then, you know, not that three was any good, but she actually ends up being like his consigliere. Fredo's so weak.

Oh, yeah. He loves you. He's so weak. Don't take this out on him. The Fredo kills me the most. We're going to have to do a rewatch of The Godfather. I think we should. It might be seven hours.

It could be a long time. I mean, but Fredo is sitting there with that sweater, looking out over Lake Tahoe. He's such a loser. He's so bad. He's just such a loser. He should have shot him right there. You don't talk to a man like Mo Green like that.

I told somebody at the Raiders, you have to put a plaque when they move to Vegas. You have to put a plaque in like a closet and just make it Mo Green. From Mark Davis? No, from Mo Green. Oh, Mo Green. He never had a plaque.

They're not even going to honor his name. Mark Davis as Fredo's. No. Actually, I think Mark Davis has done a really good job. I don't think he's Fredo. They're winning more. He's like Michael? I don't know if he's quite Michael, but I think he's somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's Connie.

Could be. Poor Fredo. He's so weak. Oh, he's so bad. All right. Mike Lombardi. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Thanks to SeatGeek for $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase and NBA tickets. Use promo code BSNBA. Thanks to TheRinger.com. You can find my Eli Manning mailbag

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