The Bill Simmons Podcast - Suns in Charge, Ayton Copycats, Ohtani Mania (?), and NBA Draft Stuff With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Suns’ Game 1 Finals win over the Bucks, the Bucks’ adjustments, gauging Giannis’s injury, where Arizona in July ranks among the worst NBA Finals destinations, and more (2:00). Then they talk about Shohei Ohtani’s dominance of the MLB and why it isn’t a bigger story, random sports fixes, NBA draft prospects, and more (1:12:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Priscilla and I are going to talk about game one of the 2021 finals, which we just watched. That's all next first pro jam. All right, we're taping this. It is 836 Pacific time. Just watched game one of the 2021 NBA Finals. Phoenix, Milwaukee. Rosillo's guy, Chris Paul, is now three wins away after an impressive home win in Phoenix.

Giannis was the story. He went from doubtful to questionable to all of a sudden he was playing. When you go from doubtful to questionable, you kind of have the sense, right? Kind of when they do the jump. Once that happened, you're like, okay sudden he was playing. When you go from doubtful to questionable, you kind of have the sense, right? When they do the jump. Once that happened, you're like, okay, he's playing. And then you watch him do the warm-up stuff. And I thought for

the most part, we'll get to it in a little bit, but for somebody who went through that injury, he looked to be moving pretty well in the pregame stuff. So he showed us stuff during the game where it looked like there was no doubt. They probably knew yesterday. So, whatever. Yeah, I think he, I had always heard he could have played game seven if the Hawks series went to Game 7. I thought he looked better in the first half

than the second half. I thought he looked a step slower. I don't know if it was wear and tear they're trying to be, you know, take it easy with him or whatever. If he's not 100%, I would have considered maybe just waiting until Game 2 because the home team's usually going to win

Game 1 for the most part. I didn't feel like he was moving. He seemed rusty to me, especially in the second half. First half, he had a couple of Giannis-like moments, but for the most part, I didn't think he was as impactful as I thought he was going to be. But I can't tell if it was the matchup or the rest. What did you think?

It was more defensively, some of the stuff that I saw from him, because they went zone on him at one point, which kind of, it's its own version of a Giannis wall, uh, deal with him offensively. Cause he had that one time where he got free on the baseline on the left side, one-on-one at eight and, and he went left and then he went into his chest and moved him backwards. And I mean, that's the thing I do love about Giannis. And we saw that when like Embiid and those guys were trying to like fight for territory in the Eastern conference and Giannis would always go right at mb not saying he's going to win all the time but he was never afraid and that's something about janice that i've always loved and when you saw that play against

eight and i'm like oh shit but there was a stretch there defensively he was late on bridges just because he was late on two threes it just happened it wasn't like he he was helping on a drive sort of but then he was kind of late to recover. There was that pass into the corner where Crowder, like Giannis, pointed ahead to somebody else to catch him. And it was Giannis' guy, and he was just really late. And then there was another switch where Aiton ended up getting the free look at the rim because Giannis, like, there was a screen that kept Lopez off of him. But, Bill, there were things there. And, again, what he went through,'m not like criticizing him but it seemed like he and at times honestly Milwaukee felt like the slower team for the beginning of this game until like a third

quarter I agree Phoenix had three of the best four players in the game tonight and it felt like I I was just I was writing down notes as it was happening and it you know like I thought I was texting with House before. I had a tentative Milwaukee in six. I put a little money on it. It was five to one odds. I just like the odds the most because I figure if they're going to win, they're going to win in six. Holiday was nine to one to win the finals MVP.

How do you feel about that now? I felt terrible. I thought there was so much consensus on the Suns. Everyone was picking them. Everyone's like Paul or Booker for MVP. I was just trying to go where the value went. But at the same time, I was like, I can't wait to watch this because I feel like when I watch this,

this matchup's going to fall into place. And the thing that jumped out of me pretty quickly was that there's some Buck stuff going on that's actually bad for them against this Phoenix team. Like, I don't really know what Tucker does in this series. All the stuff Tucker brings to the table that you would love. I mean, they had him guarding Chris Paul. Felt like Chris, whenever he really wants, he's going to do whatever he wants against Tucker. Offensively,

Tucker's a zero. Tonight, he was minus 14, played 33 minutes. But the lineups that we've seen succeed against Phoenix are kind of the Giannis with the four small ball guys. The problem for Milwaukee is they don't really have that lineup, right? They have to do like Bryn Forbes all of a sudden was playing the whole fourth quarter. He's out there with Conant and Holiday and Middleton and Giannis. And that was the lineup they had the most success with. My point is, I think Phoenix might get through this whole playoffs without playing a single team that has the kind of lineup that I think would give them trouble in a playoff series,

which is basically what the Clippers had except they didn't have Kawhi, right? And remember like they would have Reggie Jackson and Mann and Luke Kennard and they would spread them out with all these slasher guys, but it wasn't quite the right lineup. And Phoenix might just be able to escape the playoffs without ever playing it. The Lopez problem, you know, was a huge part of game one and, you know, Van Gundy was on it and he was really good with it. He's like, okay, so they're switching everything.

And you could see a couple of times early, like Chris Paul's like, all right, so this is how you're going to play it. You're going to switch it. gonna switch it all right like hold on let me take a deep breath assess the situation take a nap and then i'm gonna make my move booker got lopez in one switch where he almost like was startled about how much time he had to make a decision and it was really easy okay it was really easy and then they even got eaten on some good seals because they didn't have any size at the rim and then they played they they went to drop coverage and then they got smoked on that then they brought in bobby portis who's like i love to blitz the point guard and then chris paul's like all right are you seriously bobby portis

you want to like hand check me 30 feet away from the hoop all right i'm gonna blow by you and then he hits a three on him and then they were like okay now don't switch it to portis because it was pj is the initial defender they're like don't switch it keep two with chris paul this time and chris paul read that before they were even ready and throws it to eight in the lane and then eight and gets fouled as he's going up against the layup against the guard so like chris paul this is why i love him but like other teams it takes forever to figure this stuff out. Chris Paul figures out immediately. He's like, okay, now you're off the switch. All right, now you're dropping. Okay, now you're bringing in Portis. Okay, now

you're going to double me. And then, oh, you're bringing in Bryn Forbes to close out the fourth quarter of an NBA Finals game. We're going Bryn Forbes, honey. Right, and you actually need Bryn Forbes. That was the other kind of shocking thing. You need the space, you need the shooting. I remember when we started talking seriously about Phoenix as a contender three, four months ago,

the questions I had were Aiton and then these young guys that they were relying on, just like, what kind of composure would you have as the pressure got, you know, the spotlight got hotter and hotter. I was so impressed by their composure and their identity tonight, right? Just like all the guys, even Crowder who sucked from a shooting standpoint, he still affected the game. They still played eight guys. Sarge got hurt,

which who knows if there'll be ramifications from that as a serious one-on-one. But for the most part, everybody who's in this game, they know what to do. They know where to go. They all trust each other. They have a real identity.

So that was the one thing. The other thing is the thing we've been talking about over and over again, the eight and stuff. And there was a play that I thought of you, it was probably like two minutes left. Paul was, Paul was, uh, it was like a little high screen eight went to the basket and Paul just kind of blindly threw it toward him. Nate caught it. And it was the last bucket he scored. And Van Gundy was like just immediately impressed by it. It was the play Aiton couldn't have made four months ago. And the fact that in one season that they have that kind of chemistry now is pretty frightening.

I don't think, I honestly don't know if Chris has played with a big guy like that. I mean, you would say like DeAndre, Tyson Chandler, but Aiton, I just feel like he's more athletic and coordinated from a 20-foot running start like that. I'm just so blown away by him consistently every game. Never gets in foul trouble. Today, he was the first guy since Tim Duncan to have a 15-15 in his first finals game. This is nuts.

I don't really fully understand it. I've never seen somebody improve this dramatically over the course of four months who actually could swing a title. And how about this? As a young guy, he loves telling everyone how much Chris Paul bitched at him all season. I know.

I wanted to punch him. There's other millennials going, hey, relax. Right. Don't let this catch on. I know. He's like, here's my first tribute. Millennials are actually too old.

I was just trying to throw out a phrase. Yeah, whatever the... I don't want a generational fight here. Well, Aiden... So Aiden finished tonight with 22 and 19. He was 8 for 10. It's just every game, he doesn't get in foul trouble

and he makes 70 to 80% of his shots and grabs 15 to 20 rebounds. And this is just, I guess, who he is now. And I kept thinking like, okay, they have to match Giannis' minutes with Aiton all the time, like any minute, because when the Saric minutes were happening, I'm like, oh, whoa.

And then it wasn't really, I don't know how many minutes Giannis was on where Aiton was off because Aiton came out at the start of the fourth and he had played 31 minutes and Giannis had only played 25. So Giannis had played like six less minutes. So Bud could kind of make a run at it. He played 39. Yeah. So he's just going to, he's going to be out there. I would imagine to match Giannis almost all the time. And look, as weird as this game was, it got to seven

with a ton of time left. Milwaukee started hitting threes. The small lineup was better. And I want to finish the small lineup thought here because I do think this is important. Because game one against Atlanta, Lopez looked unplayable after game one. But we've learned this before, okay? One of the many lessons the playoffs teach us here is that because game one happened doesn't mean game two is going to look just like game one, right? And just because somebody looks terrible in a matchup,

more often than not, big guys, it doesn't mean the coach is going to look just like game one, right? And just because somebody looks terrible in a matchup, more often than not, big guys, it doesn't mean the coach just abandons them. And yes, Trey not being a part of the closing or a healthy Trey not being a part of the closing thing and seeing Lopez have other good moments in that series reminds us of all these things. But Lopez came out of game one against Atlanta with 4.45 left in the third quarter.

Didn't come back in the game until he was a late rebound sub with under a minute to go. All right? So Bud just was like, all right, this is it. He did the same thing tonight. At 78-62, 442 left in the third, we didn't see Lopez again in this game. So I think Coach Bud tried a million different things tonight.

So for people who are like, oh, no adjustments, no adjustments. I mean, honestly, you could argue he made so many adjustments until he got to the adjustment that seemed like it kept him more competitive. But I'd also caution against like, OK, now they have to go small

and no Brook Lopez because we've made that mistake, as I just said. And look, let's be honest. I even thought Phoenix started to go a little slow, Bill, because they just felt like they were in such control of the game

that there's a tendency to leak a little bit and then the lead starts to shrivel anyway. I agree. Well, with Lopez, I think there's now it does look like Saric is coming back. That actually looked like a bad knee injury. It looked like something legit happened. So they can spot Lopez

in all the 9-8 minutes, right? I want him out there for every single minute against Kaminsky, whatever. They'll, they'll figure it out. Torrey Craig? Yeah, whatever. I don't know what's going to happen. Like you said, this happened last year.

And the, the other thing I found in the Bucs, I'm looking at it, like, I didn't know I was going to get Giannis, you know, to play 35 minutes until probably the day before. I missed what? 12 layups in the first three quarters. All those stuff around the rim. They just like, couldn't buy a break. I didn't feel like they were getting a ton of calls either. And then, uh, and Chris went nuclear in the third quarter. He just made everything like, if you're going to have a Chris Paul, 16 point third quarter, you're probably going to be in

trouble if you're the other team. I like the way the suns played. I don't know if you're just thinking like, hey, what could the Suns do better? Like, yeah, they were 11 for 34 from three. For the most part, that was, you know, I would say 90% as well as they could play, but Milwaukee seemed like they had a lot more room. The thing for me with Milwaukee, is Holiday, what is Holiday at this point?

What's going on with this guy? Like, as I said earlier, I bet him for finals of a P901. I thought he was incredible in game six against Atlanta. I thought that was one of the more dominant two-way games I've seen from a guard in a while. He was guarding everybody. He was doing everything.

And he was, in general, really good in that series. I think he was 22, 10, and five. But he has this, you know, You see him in some of these games and it's like, what the hell happened to this guy? And then he'll come back the next day. He's fine, but I thought they needed him tonight.

I think they need his offense in this series. I think they need to make Paul and Booker defend people and do stuff on the defensive end, use some energy. If Holiday's not going to do that, I don't think the Bucs have a chance. I think we all like Drew Holiday.

I think all of us that have watched Drew Holiday over his career are like, man, I'd love to have that guy on my team. And now that he's in the spotlight, you're like, I guess I'd still like him, but maybe I'd be less excited if I got him. Because this has been bad. Look, I know he's had his moments.

He's good enough to have one of those big games. mean he had a that abysmal Brooklyn game was a game five and then he just lit it up at the very end and you're like okay I mean he looked game lost uh was it game seven that was the game well yeah one of them yeah I know you're talking about that right I think it was game seven though it was everything was terrible until all of a sudden he made every shot and you're like oh okay uh yeah by the way it was game seven my bad yeah um i mean he's 18 and six with eight and a half assists through the playoffs you know he's 42 30 from three 42 overall it was so much middleton today they were so middleton heavy that it's just that's not you're not going to win the finals like that they need a second guy and you know, they weren't going to Giannis at all

with that Brooklyn, that stuff that they kind of tapped into in the Brooklyn series and then more in Atlanta before he got hurt, where they were really icing him on one side and letting him either draw a double or try to crash into the paint, little jump hook stuff.

They didn't really do that at all today. I just think they need more from Holiday because Jeff Teague played 10 minutes tonight to put their bench in perspective. Holiday was terrible for game one. I mean, Holiday, when you look at him, you're like, yeah, they gave up potentially four first-rounders for this guy and a max extension. And you're like, wait, what? He's been way too up and down.

I think everything you've said about him in the past feels fair, but there's these moments where on this kind of spotlight, it's almost like, hey, should I just kind of temper my expectations for him a little bit? Not saying he can't have a really big game. I think we've done this with Middleton at times too. But I think your overall point is right in that it felt like, I don't know if it's Giannis being out of shape

and not being in that game shape. I mean, it's just hard to stay in that kind of game shape if you're not playing games. But it felt like they just kind of went away from him and they were hitting threes that was getting him into it a little bit. But I'd agree that it felt like some long

non-Yana stretches when he was out there. Yeah. I mean, he finished at 20 and 17 and I'm disappointed by him, which tells you how good that guy is. 20 is nothing anymore. Right. You're right. Six for 11, seven for 12 from the free throw line. Middleton had to play 45 minutes in this game. And again, Jeff Teague played 10 minutes. Did they go to Teague too late? They needed it. Listen, they need small against this

Phoenix team. It's a weird matchup for them. I think Phoenix is Achilles heel or one of them is when there's multiple guards out there. One thing with... Actually, let's take a break and we'll come back because I had to follow a holiday point. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance.

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Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. All right, so we were just talking about things Milwaukee could do in the second game, which I think they need. I think it would be hard to beat this team four out of five unless they got some dumb injury or something weird happened. I don't know what you do with the P.J. Tucker piece of this.

And I don't know why you wouldn't tell Holiday, you're going to have to take Chris Paul out. We have to cut the head off the monster. Chris Paul is their head. Take them out. There was late in the fourth quarter, all of a sudden he was on Paul and he was hounding him. And Paul's never like that in his career. He'll get by the guy, but you want to annoy him. You want to appeal to his competitiveness. You want to put some miles on him. I would just use Holiday as like, look, man, we're not winning the finals unless you're guarding Chris Paul on the one end

and we're actually running some offense for you on the other hand, or else we're going to lose. So the series is now in your hands. I really do feel like he's the most pivotal guy for them. You're right. There was that late possession where he kind of tapped it at the half court line and it wasn't a bad court because it was tipped.

And then you're thinking, man, this is the whole point of picking somebody up because now chris paul's auditioning their offense at like 11 seconds in the shot clock and it's a little less time for him even though you trust him more than others to dissect something but yeah i mean that's why i always have a ton of respect for delavadova because it was you have one option here and that's you have to chase steph curry and it's still i mean that's the thing it's kind of your PJ Tucker Durant point you're like did PJ really do a great job in those Durant minutes I'm like it's not really it's not the final line it may be the effort that it takes to get that final line uh I'm with you because Drew's just too disappointing

too often uh we know he's not like all top 20 you know what i mean we know we know who he is so i don't think we're sitting here acting like he's a top 15 player and making all nba teams but i think their effort was just was just off and that's why i never know what to go with when everybody's like oh well phoenix has had all the rest and milwaukee's a quick turnaround well that should mean i don't know i i think it should take you less time to ramp it up because milwaukee won this game, everybody would say, oh, Phoenix had too much time off. The layoff was too long.

I thought Milwaukee, I'm with you, though. I just felt like they were slower. They were just slower until the game didn't matter. A little deer in the headlights, see? Tiny bit? Wee bit? Is that what you're going with? No, just a little smidge.

On the road? I thought that way with Holiday. Because he was awesome in the Atlanta series. And in this game, I didn't know what's going on. But, you know, if he's not going to play better, and if Giannis is going to be 82%, I'm going to go, oh, dude,

why don't you ask me what I thought Giannis was percentage-wise today? I just don't know if you have enough data points. But I know that you're not afraid to throw out a percentage, even if you feel like it's incomplete. I felt like he was 86% first half. And I thought that dropped to like 74% second half. I was going to say 86% of the whole game seems high. I know you're, I think I know your curve. Yeah. It was a dip, dip 74%. All right. Uh, other topics for you. Which team out of these two teams is less likely

to ever be back in the NBA finals with their current crews? Would you say Milwaukee or Phoenix? Who is the desperation? Hey guys, let's take this seriously.

We're probably not going to be back if you had to pick between these two teams. It's not like a, it's not one dramatically over the other, right? It isn't i just feel like it is oh you're just gonna go with the chris paul 36 no chance they're gonna have this run again

you think it's the other way all right go ahead i think it's milwaukee wow i didn't expect that why because i think brooklyn was so clearly the best team team. And Brooklyn is so clearly going to be just as good next year unless Kyrie manages to completely submarine them. That this was a unique opportunity for a team that played Jeff Teague 10 minutes tonight to actually play in the NBA Finals and have a chance to win. Their bench was Bobby Portis, Jeff Teague, Pat Connaughton, and Bryn Forbes. And they're in the finals.

Hustle and Forbes. P.J. Tucker played 33 minutes tonight for them in a finals game. I just feel like between this and if Philly figures out the Wright-Simmons trade, I have them third next year. I do feel like there's some desperation with this stuff. You'd be like, no, no, no, it's fine. Giannis, he's still coming into his own. There's more stuff for it.

It's like, I don't know, dude. You're paying your three guys. Your entire salary cap is going to three guys. You're not going to be able to live on the fringes of free agency. You have no draft picks. How are you going to be better off next year? You're going to be in a better situation. I look at the Suns and I'm like,

is Chris just going to play until he's 43 now? Yeah, maybe. Aiden's going to be better. Booker, all the stuff he learned this year, their swing guys are all under control. They'll get one more veteran guy though. I feel like they're right back in it next year. So you were thinking everybody else, but they're in the mix. This is, this is a good point. And it's the same exercise that you put us through last year when you were like, this is Boston's window when they didn't beat Miami. I talked you into that. It took me like three podcasts, but I think I got you there. You did. You did. And it was a really good point. But the thing is, I'll always look at the roster first and you always look at it from the outside.

You kind of combine it with the roster, but then you look at everybody else's roster. And I was a little too roster focused. Can you get better? Is there an actual path for you to improve next year? And then what is the situation in the conference? You know, if you're looking at Phoenix, I think Phoenix can be just as good next year. The issue for them is like, what happens if Golden State nails the seven and 14 picks? This is why.

What happens if Davis and LeBron come back? What happens if Murray is back by March? Like the West is deeper. But I think Phoenix, their team will be just as good. And you know they're getting another veteran guy. Could you see Blake Griffin on that team next year or somebody like that? They could

easily grab the older searching for a ring guy somewhere. I could see Phoenix being a little deeper. And whatever drop-offs you'd see from Chris Paul, you'd probably expect an uptick from Aiton. So maybe the sum of the parts is still just as good, but I think Jalen Smith, little Jalen Smith,

a year to how bad practices that he can't get any minutes when they desperately need it. Sorry, we need Kaminsky. Kaminsky's going to play. Kaminsky's going to play on Charlotte. When I heard Kaminsky blitz coverage from being Gundy tonight, I was like,

I don't know. Here's what I think you're doing, though. I think you're penalizing Milwaukee for who's better than them in the conference. You're being convenient about the rest of the team's best case scenario. How about Atlanta? How about Atlanta is another one. I think Atlanta will... I don't know what happens with Collins.

That's the big X factor for them is what are they going to do with Collins? Because I don't think they're paying him 90 million bucks. They just don't. So maybe Atlanta's not as good. He might not want their 90 million bucks. He might not want their 90 million. Yeah, I think the Collins thing...

I mean, unless they just go, hey, that's something ownership would have to sign off on. It'd be like, this guy's maybe not even the fourth most important player on this team. And then we're going to go ahead and keep him.

I think he's a great fit. Or you sign him, you lock him down, and you know like six months from now Like this guy's maybe not even the fourth most important player on this team. And then we're going to go ahead and keep him. I think he's a great fit. Or you sign him, you lock him down, and you know like six months from now you could trade him potentially. Yeah, but he's felt like he's been available to everybody the whole time. But the restricted free agency part of it is always really complicated because you're like, okay, so we're going to need new assets up for another guy. But I mean, if you have to do it, then you have to know that you're going to match.

And then the teams always tell everybody in the media, they're like, oh, we'll match it, we'll match it. They never tell us, actually, we're never going to match this guy. You know what else Atlanta has? A whole summer and fall of Cam Reddish. Don't know if you saw game six. A lot of seeds were planted. Dude, I gotta say, people love Cam Reddish now.

He was great. He completely changed whatever feelings were about his career in two hours. Where it's like, man, this guy's not afraid. He's guarding Middleton on one end. He's hitting threes in traffic on the other end.

What's happening right now? It was the Romeo Langford storyline on steroids. Right. It really was. Because it was like, there was like a little, there was like a mild Andro over-the-counter GNC Romeo Lankford moment.

And Cam Reddish was just straight D-ball to the thighs. Your girlfriend shooting you up to start your day. You know what was the best thing about the Reddish was his facial expressions after every made three, where it was like those faces like, I told you, I fucking told you, I told you this was going to happen. He was so, he was so rational, confident. I told you. I fucking told you. I told you this was going to happen. He was so irrational confident. I loved it. It was good. I think Atlanta's going to be good next year.

Backpedaling every time. Motherfuckers don't. Damn them. I was sitting here this whole time. There was one other thing that I think we had. Hey, there's no way there isn't going to be some weird Lakers acquisition that pisses off the world.

The DeRozan stuff has started both on the internets and in the NBA whisper circles. There's DeRozan buzz now. I don't think that can be counted out with a Lowry sign and trade. I mean, you could talk to

10 people and hear Lowry's going to 10 teams. Lowry is just on every team. He's headed, he's 90% there. Name a team, he's heading there. But, you know, there's a world in which maybe they have DeRozan and Lowry next year. All right. You're in the middle of a Kyle Lowry point

and then we had technical difficulties. We got derailed for 10 minutes. In my opinion, this is why you're one of the pros because we're now asking you to travel back in time 10 minutes right as you were making some Kyle Lowry point that I didn't even know where you were going. We'll see if you can do it. Ryan Rossello, you have the floor. There was the word that Kyle Lowry was looking at like two for 50. So, again, go for it. I mean, he's proven that an older guard, like, he's

still really good. So, you know, you can ask for it. I don't know if that's what he'll get. I think there's going to be a couple weird contracts with a depleted supply and a bunch of teams that had space that are just going to use it, maybe front load some deals. I don't know if we're going to get like a Jabari Parker deal deal for one year that was insane but yeah i don't if

that's if that's part of the equation like it's not like you're going to be getting him in short money unless he completely changes his priorities so it's interesting because he already won a title so normally we'd be like well you know he wants to play for a contender, wants a chance to win the title. He might not care as much because he actually has the title. He might want to go for like a good team where he's also properly compensated. I think the Knicks are the favorite in my mind for this one. I think the Knicks will kick the tires as hard as humanly possible on the Chris Paul thing. And knowing that they're probably not going to get him, that he's going to stay in Phoenix, because why wouldn't he?

But they're also going to make Phoenix pay for him. I think there's some real suspicion within the National Basketball Association whether our guy, big shot Bob Sarver, is going to be willing to have three, basically, max guys on his team. Because he's going to have to give Aiton the whatever extension this summer, plus Booker's already making a lot, and then Chris is going to have to give Aiton the whatever extension this summer,

plus Booker's already making a lot. And then Chris is going to have to make a lot. So the Knicks, you know, Leon and Wes are his guys. They're running the Knicks. They're going to help Chris get paid. If the Suns don't want to pay him, the Knicks will happily step in and be like, well, here. And if that doesn't happen, I think Lowry's the backup is my guess. I'd still have a hard time believing, even though Lowry's the backup is my guess.

I'd still have a hard time believing, even though Sarver's history isn't great when it comes to spending. Now, when you're finally in place, it's a disaster. Yeah. I mean, he's a stretch there of selling draft picks. I mean, again, it was a long time ago, but it was awful there for a while. So go ahead. Well, I just think now it's a different level because this team has clicked with the city and the success they've had, and they're probably going to win the title.

And to basically be like, okay, got what I wanted. Thanks for everything, Chris Paul. Your new point guard is Cameron Payne. I just don't see that happening. The question for me is, what's a fair contract for Chris? I mean, we can talk about this after the finals,

but it's just like, he's already done stuff that nobody's done before. He's doing stuff three years past when we've seen stuff, people do anything like this at the point guard position. So do you want to, you want to be in that Kobe contract situation where you're basically paying for past performance or do you really think he has another two, three in him because he changed his diet he seems as fast and as explosive as ever i feel like he's as good as he's been at any point in the last six seven years so i don't think he's p quick as he was when he was in his 20s um no i'm saying i'm saying since like i don't know he's been in his 30s for a while now right yeah he's 36 yeah i think i always thought he was going to opt out to look to do something,

but then there's a version of it where you could extend him, but then there's the over 38 rule, which is kind of funny because we're talking about Chris Paul has as much power. I mean, he is the Players Association. And then there's a rule in there that kind of limits. It doesn't, you know, like he's still going to get paid, but you wonder, like hypothetically, if just the price goes way up. How could it go up higher than it is now?

But it's kind of like the Flacco thing. When he won the Super Bowl, people were like, man, his market went way up. You're like, actually, he was baseline probably going to make what he made anyway, even if they had not won the Super Bowl that year. But people kind of just repeat it. That guy made himself a ton of money. I think the Chris Paul market was still going to be incredibly strong because of everything he did but i don't know if it would

be opt into a huge number and do a two-year extension i think would be legal or if he would just say okay i'm going to opt out because i want you know a more average it'd all be kind of the same money so i mean the weird part is you think chris would always just opt out to want the years and now uh maybe he just grabbed the giant one year and then be afraid of the year from now. Bet on himself a little bit. Imagine if he did that. Holy shit.

Stay healthy. And then... Let's do some Chris Paul porn for a second. You've certainly done a lot on your podcast and we've done some here. But I was thinking like if they win the finals, on top of everything else that happened for him these last few rounds,

where like his round two, round three, the game tonight, like he's basically been, I don't know, 27 and 10 for almost a month now. I have my top 40 list. I'm going to read you my top 20 later in this podcast where he moved up just because there was no way to avoid it. And on top of everything else, he kind of threw a grenade at LeBron without naming him the other day when they asked him

about the schedule. And he had this awesome answer about, hey, believe me, everyone had their chance to profess some sort of hesitation or whatever about the schedule. And if they didn't say it then, I don't want to hear it. And it was clearly geared toward LeBron. And in general, like that relationship, I'm the LeBron and Chris Paul and the LeBron and Dwayne Wade relationships are just fascinating in general for a lot of reasons. And LeBron and Carmelo too,

where it's like, these guys are boys. And then Carmelo LeBron could have signed him for like a year for the Lakers and never did it. Uh, the way, how many years could he have like, Melo gets a gig again and LeBron's

like, all of you guys are sleeping. You could have had him for years. And then the Wade thing when they ended up in Cleveland together and then all of a sudden Wade was kind of quietly sent back in because LeBron needed more shooting around him for the 2018 finals. That was a little weird. And then the Chris

thing with Chris throwing that dart, I thought that was also kind of interesting. I think these guys are buddies but also there's a little weird. And then the Chris thing with Chris throwing that dart, I thought, uh, I thought that was also kind of interesting. I think these guys are, are buddies, but also there's a little frenemy action kind of, kind of percolating. I would imagine if they're very, very tight with LeBron.

I mean, when LeBron sent out the injury tweet, I mean, I couldn't believe how consistently negative it was. Like even, even people that are in the tank for lebron like weren't backing him on that one as much because it just felt like look i'll have a prediction for you retirement lebron i don't know what to expect because he's going to miss the

spotlight so much and i think that that was a little bit of a peek into that that you know his team's home and it sucks those guys got hurt and yeah there's been a ton of injuries but silver was really i thought not defiant but he sounded like a leader going i'm not quite sure what the science tells us yeah because we've seen that guys were resting more than ever i mean there's teams telling me they had like 15 or 17 practices total all season so everybody wants to go hey sure turn around okay that's why all these guys are getting hurt i'm not saying no but i'm also not sure if that everyone that's screaming that is saying yes. And I think Chris Paul's just sitting there being like, all right, LeBron, I know you. And if you're going to say this about my run, I'm going to fight back because he fights back with everybody.

You loved it. What a run for Chris Paul. It's really the summer of Chris Paul. Can I add something else to it on Chris Paul? Yeah, please do. The Monty Williams part of this. Because it wasn't one of us being like, you know what, they lose a lot. But Monte Williams, that guy's a hell of a coach.

They had two winning seasons in five years. We all know the Pelican staff. I thought he was below average, honestly. I thought he cost them games and did really shaky stuff at the end of games. He and Chris Paul had to work it out. Like, I think there was a friendship or a respect for each other, but that Monty was a very overbearing guy. And that's why sometimes, like, you know,

I've always been more open-minded about coaches because I think there's so many times you're like, oh, well, look at this guy's record. He sucks. And you're just like, okay, does he suck? Like, how did he ever get the job in the first place? Was some team trying something different? Yeah, okay, maybe that happens.

But, you know, Monty and Chris had to work some stuff out here. And I don't think it was like some come to Jesus moment. I think it was a real like, hey, man, I was too much when I was there. I need to defer to you a little bit more. And Paul's like, you're as good on the X's and O's stuff. Like, I don't even have to worry about any of that stuff. Like I'd have to worry with maybe some other coaches, but I'm also Chris Paul. So you're going to trust me to run some of this stuff. So I think Monty, considering everything else this guy's had to go through in

his life, I think it was a massive learning experience where whatever he is as a basketball coach, the fact that he could reinvent himself and identify some of his shortcomings that he had with Chris Paul and that they were fine with it because that wasn't a great run down in New Orleans at all. And I don't know. I think that's a really cool part of this entire storyline. I don't know if it's exactly like post Orlando, post Orlando Vogel, but clearly Vogel after getting his ass kicked down there was like, all right, whatever I'm doing, like I got to make some changes here. Also getting LeBron helped. There's something to be said for the second go round. And just in general, if you've been in charge of anything for the first time you go back and you look,

I always think about this because it was 10 years ago since Grantland. I was thinking about how we did it that spring and summer and all the stuff I just didn't know. And you're kind of learning on the fly and you're trying to survive basically. I'm sure being an NBA coach, NFL coach, any of these jobs, it all sounds great until you're actually doing it and you're in the middle of it. And I'm sure you would look back five years later and be like, oh man, wish I'd done this. I wish I'd known that, you know? And I would always target second job guys unless it was like a unicorn type of possibility. Like if somebody like Nash becomes available,

you know, that guy's going to be, the guy was a head coach when he played, you know? So, you know, like, all right, if that guy's going in, he already has a lot of basics coming in there. I think Doc Rivers was probably the same way. Some of these ex point guards that were the coach on the floors, maybe it's a little easier. But for the most part, I wouldn't mind having the guy after he's failed once. I think Vogel's a

great example. He failed twice and really got fucked in Orlando. They were just doing this rebuilding thing. In general, it feels like the league is starting to change how they think about coaches and what types of coaches and what coaches make sense for different rosters. I really wonder, like, the old school screamer coach, I really wonder if that guy is gone and not coming back. I always think that. And just to make sure everybody understands, like, Monty and Chris Paul only had that one year together. They were still technically the Hornets, and they had a decent record. And then they lost to the Lakers in the first round. So I just want to make sure that, like, everybody understands that I understand.

It's not like they were attached to him all those years. Right, right. But if you know, and this is not a guess here, if you know after that was over, it was like, oh. And then when it was like, okay, Chris Paul's going there in Phoenix and he's got Monte Williams, there had to have been some clearing the air conversation. And I don't think it was that challenging, but I think it's a lot about those guys learning. Your other point, though, I think is right on. I don't

think a Stan, I don't think these guys want to hear him anymore. I just think the Stan Van Gundy is... Imagine 1997 Patino coming in the league now. I'm going to make more money than most of you, and I'm going to yell at you during the games all the time. Good luck.

And yelling at you to box out on the second free throw and calling you by your first name. Paul, box out. Paul, box out. Like going, hey, I'm in the NBA now, man. Like, I don't want to hear that stuff. So I'm not even knocking Van Gundy on the basketball side of it. I just think there's...

But I always kind of think that. Okay, but here's the question. Because this is another thing about thinking we know who coaches are, right? Because a lot of times you're like, oh, this coach or Noah Justman or he should have done this. And we're all experts about it. When usually we don't really know what the hell's going on, okay? Because we're not around the team.

We're not beat guys. We're not in the locker room. But Brad Stevens would, by all indications of where this conversation is going, have the perfect temperament for it. And that Celtics team was soft as hell all year long. But he's been there seven, eight years. Yeah, I just wonder,

is this a five-year job with very, very, very rare exceptions? Well, it's probably that too. Right, three to five years. If you owned a team, which's probably that too. Right? Three to five years. If you owned a team, which personality would you want to hire? Give me a cook. I would go ex-player. I think that's where the league's going.

I think that's where the world's going. No, I would want somebody... I think that's what players want in 2021. I think they're always going to respond more to a guy who at least played in the league and get some of it and get some of the rhythm of this stuff. I thought Brad was the best non-NBA player coach that I'd seen in the last few years, and they burned out on him within four or five years. But two different people told me this

with the Celtics. They signed Udoka to be the new head coach. And they heard from more people around the league who had interacted with them and just like, just love the guy and oh my God. And they were kind of like startled by how beloved this guy was around the league. And I do think that's a blueprint for if you're looking for the coach, the guy who played, the guy who's been on some benches and really put in some time and been in some different situations and has built different relationships and things like that, that's who I would be looking at. I wouldn't be looking at the, oh, this guy was great on TV the last five years. I'm going to hire this guy. I just wouldn't be

even thinking that way anymore. I think one of the reasons this is an interesting topic is just there's still jobs open amazingly. There's still a couple of teams that haven't even hired a coach yet. And they're looking at all these ones. I think the days of bringing in the TV guy are done. I have more topics for you, but we got to take a quick break. All right. Next topic, Phoenix in mid-July. Worst NBA Finals location ever? Did Green Bay have a team? It's 110 degrees there all week. 110.

I've had some great weekends in Scottsdale. I got to tell you, I don't know how you do it in the summer. That's why people leave in the summer. Here are your other options. I'm going to just give you some. In the 1950s, Syracuse had a finals team. Rochester.

They played the finals when? In February back then? Yeah, it was like in April. Rochester. Fort Wayne. Tri-cities. Minneapolis had it a couple times in the 50s. They won a few.

The Lakers now claim those titles. 1956, Fort Wayne. I've heard Fort Wayne's actually crazy underrated. The Fort Wayne Ritz is apparently amazing. If you like Brooks. 1960s, St. Louis. There was some 1970s Baltimore. What are you trying to say about 1970s Baltimore?

I'm just going small cities. And then my personal choice, just because I went to it and covered it, 2012 OKC, where the entire city was under construction, not realizing that they were going to host an NBA finals. And it was just detours and rerouting. And nothing was built. There were like two hotels. So anyway, I still think Phoenix in the 110s has to trump all of that. Phoenix in mid-July as a finals location is insane to me. It's 110 degrees there today. I spent one night in Oklahoma City.

I was on my way out after a Sooners game. And usually those shifts were really long. It was always hard for us to get food. And it wasn't, we were radio, so it wasn't exactly a catered affair. And I went back to the hotel and dialed up some delivery. And I figured, all right, like even bad pizza isn't terrible. When I tell you this is one of the worst pizzas man has ever created, this is not an exaggeration. Brad with some ketchup on it. It was so bad. I would go, Hey, I'm not asking for a refund. It's just, but someone over there should know when this goes out the door that there was zero pride put into this. And you know, just, you need to know, like this isn't a Yelp review. I'm not asking for my money back. I don't want anything else, but you should know that this is, this is embarrassing. And if you were a publicly traded company, I would be shorting you Monday. But, uh, the guy got so mad, like the lady was on the line and then her husband got called me back in the hotel room and started screaming at me saying he knew where I was staying and they were coming for me. I was like, I'm so bored. Yeah. I was like, I'm so bored.

You were like, great. I'll be up. I'll be up watching Gold Rush. What is your single worst work-related trip in the history of your career? Where was it? What time of the year was it? And what were you doing? I'll give you one that started really bad and ended really strong. Because it's my favorite trip in retrospect, but it didn't start great. McShay and I were at Texas, Texas Tech in Lubbock.

It was my first time ever in Lubbock, Texas. Lubbock. And we drove all the way from, I forget if we went through Midland to get to Odessa or if it was the other way around because we were out of that airport. So we had to drive all the way out there. And when we checked in to the hotel, the other thing was, is if there was some loss and the schedule would change where you needed to go for the biggest

game, like Texas was in this incredible run. They're playing all these top teams and it was Halloween. It was Texas Tech and Texas Tech wins the game. It was unbelievable. It was a really good team. Graham Harrell, shout out to him. I've interviewed him about this game. They rushed the field like four times. Then it wasn't supposed to happen. It's the prestigious Texas school against this upstart Lubbock. Lubbock itself was kind of a town early in its transition to being a little bit more modern now. Anytime you got lost, there's just a loop around the city. It's unbelievable. Imagine if like Boston was surrounded by a big highway loop and every time you got lost, you just get back on the loop around the city. It's unbelievable. Imagine if like Boston was surrounded by a big highway loop. And every time you got lost, you just get back on the loop and then figure it out again. It's actually very convenient, but so you stayed at the Lubbock montage. We stayed at the,

uh, I'm not going to name the establishment, but it was, it was based on value. Value was their number one priority. And when we checked in McShay calls me. He's like, how's your room? I go, not great. I got board games in here, though. And he's like, there's blood on my sheets. And there's a sign that says, take your garbage with you. And that was a tough, tough deal. But the game itself was amazing.

We were in Lubbock for Halloween. And it was one of the great. What part of the sheets? You know, we didn't get to the location, actually. That's a great question. What's the worst part for the blood, like, near your face? It would have to be, yeah, pillows, headboard, like a linen headboard. But it probably wasn't going to be a linen headboard at this place anyway.

You know, House had a whole bed bug situation once staying in New York City. Really? Yeah, where it turned out the hotel had bed bugs. But he woke up and he was covered in bedbugs and it was a whole disaster. How long does that take to go away? Uh, just, well, mentally years. My worst, my worst travel situation was Winnipeg. When I went, they made me go to interview Brian Dennehy for season of the brink when they were filming season of the brink, when I was working for page two and I didn't have the pull to fight it yet and went down there in like January. And

it was like, how old are you? 2001. It was like my first year for page two. So you should have had to gone. There was no part of you that was sort of excited to go check out Winnipeg knowing you'd probably not going to ever go there. It was just one of those. This doesn't feel right. Like you guys are making me go to pimp some movie. That's probably not going to be very good. You're, you're leveraging my calm, which I like to think might have some level of integrity, but I didn't have the juice to fight it. And I went down to Winnipeg and it was like, I don't know, minus 38 windchill, some crazy number like that. And it was like minus eight, minus 38 windchill. And I had to walk to the set where the hotel was nice, And it was like minus eight, minus 38 windshield. And I had to walk to the set where

the hotel was nice, but it was like, yeah. So, you know, the thing's two blocks away and I'm like, I'll just walk. And they're like, don't walk. It was like one of those, like, don't walk, don't go, don't be outside. Like just, and I'm like, where the fuck am I? Like Antarctica. So that one was bad. Jacksonville for the Superbowl that year when the Pats won their third Super Bowl, which everyone complained about. And then people got mad that the media people were complaining. But Jacksonville wasn't ready to host the Super Bowl.

I don't know if you went to that one. I was there. It was brutal. Yeah, the locals were apologizing. When you're getting coffee, they're apologizing. I don't know why we had the Super Bowl. Well, because everybody that got a new stadium got one. This isn't hard to figure out. The downtown was closed. You you couldn't drive in all this

stuff. And then the other one that was just weird was the Houston, the Superbowl, the Carolina Pat Superbowl. Um, they, they launched the light rail and it was this trolley, this above ground trolley that, but they didn't have like enough signs up yet. And it was just hitting people like, I don't know, seven to eight people during Superbowl week. So that, that was, I thought though, probably the weirdest trip where it was like, Hey, watch out for that light roll. It's the light rails hitting people. It's new. Just keep an eye out for it. I was there at that one too. And what was weird, um, and you're right, that was happening, but there was also the scene where they were just, there was parts of the city that weren't done yet which i think is probably part of the theme it's happened because i've been to houston since then and i liked a lot much better yeah when i

went that year i was like you know what if i never come back here i'll probably be fine but i've gone since i think twice and been like you know what it's actually it's great now um but there were places so this is what like oh four or something yeah oh four there were places, so this is like 04 or something. Yeah, 04. There were places you'd just be walking through the streets, and it would be a street that wasn't even ready. And then each commercial entrance was just a bar. And I don't know how, it had to be so shady and the liquor licenses or who got access to what. But I remember walking into one,

and the guy was like five bucks and it's a cover charge he handed you two canned beers and we all walked in like idiots because again we're local radio we didn't have access to anything cool so we went out and we were just like let's see what happens and the whole building that was like a storefront had astroturf duct taped to the floor so they could just tear it up. And it was basically like whoever was opening a business there. In the meantime, this is going to be a pop-up shop dive bar for four or five days. And then you need a license. Yeah, right.

And it was low. They were like lined with them. And it was a bit of a free for all. Did you go to the Super Bowl in Dallas where they had the ice storm and nobody could go anywhere because you would just get off the highway because they had no salt, sand, anything. I think it was Packers. It was Packers Steelers. I was there and we were leaving the EA party that night.

And luckily we had, of course, other people were being told like cab drivers were saying, hey, I'm dropping you off here and I'm not going any further. It was like black ice. Yeah, it was. It was really bad. That was like a video game. Yeah, that one's way up there. Yeah, it was really bad. That was like a video game. Yeah, that one's way up there. I have another topic for you. Do you like Chris Middleton more or less than you did eight weeks ago? He's exactly the same. Exactly the same. Yeah, I watch him. I do watch

these games. When I'm a little disappointed, I'm not surprised. And when I'm really excited about some of these scoring runs he goes on, you know, this is why we have a hard time with him. Because he's not as great as his greatest and he's not as bad as his lowest. I got excited about him tonight. I'm like, you know, Chris Middleton's really kind of taking a step up this year. So I looked at his stats and they're exactly the same as they were last year. Like exactly. It's like Groundhog Day. And it's like, he's 50, 40, 90 guy, but he's, I guess he is what he is, but he does have these moments. You know, if you're comparing him like Tobias Harris, I feel better about him than Tobias Harris. Right. Yes. Yeah. I think, I think he's,

you know, I think whatever he is, he's a level above that, isn't he? Yeah. Next topic. If Dwight Howard had had 35-year-old Chris Paul instead of Jameer Nelson in 2008. 2007, actually. 2009. No, let's go 2008 leading into the 2009 unexpected finals appearance. Let's say Chris Paul shows up for Dwight Howard when he's been in the league three years. So that would be, he was in the 2004 draft.

So 2007, 35-year-old Chris Paul shows up after that. What does Dwight Howard's career look like? Can Chris Paul get through to Dwight Howard like he did to DeAndre Ayton? Or was Dwight Howard, was the DNA already sending him into the goofy, weird, at one point really good, but also like fucking frustrating, never really having a sense of who he was, Dwight Howard.

Was that just destined to happen anyway? Or could Chris Paul have changed that? It would have accelerated the downward spiral of Dwight Howard. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because Dwight would not have responded to that. So you're thinking feud? Feud, yeah. I liked what Van Gundy said about the three R's tonight.

He said like rebounding, rolling, and recovery maybe were the three for a center. He's like Aiton has the three R's, rebounding, rolling, recovery. I think that was what it was. But I was thinking like all the stuff Aiton does is the stuff I wanted Dwight Howard to do for his entire career. And it's the reason I have him probably 20 spots

lower on any pyramid list than I should have him based on what his resume was because he was so fucking frustrated. He never knew who he was. Aiton knows who he is already at three years into the league and it feels like it's because of Chris Paul. I just read the Napoleon's actually a lot taller than we remember him historically. Is that true? Yeah. Where he was measured, they used a different system of measurements. It's the same as George Washington. They measured his feet being broken forward. So he's actually a little overrated in the height business, but just as jacked.

So that's, those are two other things. What would happen if Napoleon met Chris Paul? I'm going to give you my new top 20. All time players? No, no, right now. No, in the league. Cause remember we did our top 40. Yeah. You. You and I really are great on these, especially when you don't tell me ahead of time. No, no. It wasn't like I wanted yours. I'm just telling you two things that I realized. Clearly you didn't want mine. I know because I didn't tell you I was doing it. Can Chris Paul be

lower than seven on any list right now? If I'm trying to win the title right now, how is he not one of the seven guys? If it goes Durant, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Steph, and LeBron, Chris, and then Embiid, Kawhi, Dame, Davis, and Harden, who I think all have little asterisks next to them for different reasons. If I'm trying to win the title and my life depends on it, I think I would want Chris

over those next five guys. The way this current incarnation of Chris, 2021, not going to be denied Chris. I don't feel like this is an overreaction. What are your thoughts? No, it's not an overreaction. Okay, good. Because I always felt like,

you know, it's once again again i just like saying it out loud every now and then i like doing it more often than not to remind people like how deep that top is you know because last year the idea that anthony davis is behind 10 people is is insane like you couldn't say it even Even the biggest Harden critiques, which I've certainly have been an author of many. The idea that Harden's outside of the top 10 doesn't seem right with this at all. So Kawhi, who's definitely floated

towards the top more and more. But yeah, that feels about right. So let's do it again. Top six, Durant, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Steph, LeBron. I think he could be higher. Chris, seven. And you could conceivably jump him over, Steph and LeBron, if you got ambitious.

Just for if I'm trying to win this year's title. Why is Jokic over him? Jokic was unbelievable. His team was terrible. He was. Yeah, I don't want to penalize Jokic was unbelievable. His team was terrible. He was. Yeah, I don't want to penalize Jokic because he was playing with Monty Morris and Austin Rivers

and Fabio Compazzo and injured Will Barton and Michael Porter who had a bad back and Paul Millsap's corpse. I mean, that was ridiculous. But those next five after Chris, Embiid,

who I'm just not convinced can play four straight playoff rounds, are you? I mean, you might be able to. I imagine at some point he will. I'd like to see it first. Can I see it first? Kawhi, who not only seems to get hurt every other postseason,

who plays two-thirds of the regular season games, but then when he gets hurt, his team doesn't know what happened to him and he doesn't talk to them. And they're just in limbo the entire time. And it's like, ah, that's what you get. You know, Kawhi. You know, he's a hard guy to read.

It's like, well, isn't this a team sport? If somebody's your best player, don't you want to know what's going on with him? Should it be a mystery? No. Look, I've already covered this, man. I think it's so lame. I do.

And I think he's great. But when people say, well, this is what you sign up for. Hey, can we sign up for the part where we just get a little bit more information? Yeah. Can you just tell us what's going on day to day like if you by the way do you feel any different now about all the different kawaii stuff that you heard because you and i were you know look when when stuff will come up every now and we'll talk to each other about it not all the time because i

know we keep information from each other plenty but i think the clippers are terrified to talk about this to anybody because they're really worried about how this is going to play out. Okay, but do you think he's more hurt today than you did a couple weeks ago? I think he had a sprained knee. I don't think he had like a torn ACL, any of that stuff. Okay. Do you? I don't know what to believe.

That's why I was actually deferring to you on the answer only because my mind hasn't been changed on anything because I wasn't that convinced I knew anything. All right, so in this tier, Embiid, Kawhi, Dame, who I just feel like has to be a level below Chris because we've never seen him affect other teammates like this as great as he is. Davis, who I don't know when he's going to be healthy year to year, same for Harden. And that's your top 12.

And then there's this next group that I feel really good about. Trey Young, Tatum, Booker, Mitchell, Zion, Paul George, and then DeAndre Ayton. I have 19th now. I'm just trying to win the title. I feel like those seven guys are like the next level of guys, which leads me to my bigger point, the exercise why I did this. By this list, I have the Suns with three of the top 20 guys.

So maybe it's not as inconceivable and nutty and crazy that they're three wins away from the finals. If I'm trying to win the title. Do you have Giannis? Did I hear Giannis in there? Yeah, Giannis was item fourth. Oh, you did?

After that, it goes Kyrie, Butler, Middleton, Drew Holiday, Beal, Randall, Jalen Brown, Bam, Jod. You know, it goes down, all the usual suspects. But if I'm trying to win the title, guess who I'd love to have is DeAndre Ayton, which leads me to my next question. Does this change how you would look at other guys in the league, like Robert Williams types,

and then guys in the draft, um, trying to find three R's big guys, um, coming out of college in a way that benefits centers. Like, do you think that we're going to care more about centers now because Aiton's had such an impact?

Or is he just a number one draft pick, borderline franchise center who's just coming to his own? Does this change how you feel at all about the center position? It does a little bit, but I think we've both talked about this at least the last couple of years. It's like as much as we've seen the league go small overnight, it felt like once Golden State started doing it and playing Draymond at the five, it was like everybody was trying.

Like when you weren't ready for that, it was horrifying, you know, when it was the early part of that. But then when other teams had really good players and they went small, too, you're like, OK, all right. So this isn't the end of the world. Like the death lineup isn't the unsolvable thing here. Yeah. But it felt like people were closing small. Right. That was the other thing was

happening but then when you add in davis and you know you have to be big against yokich it felt like there was a couple teams and they put a in in this and then certainly with mb and however milwaukee's gonna play with yannis you're like you know what though you don't you don't want a six seven center you're out there all the time because you can you know even when golden state had a few moments like that where they couldn't grab rebounds in some of their playoff games and you're going, all right, wait a minute, what the hell? Like people left this out of the scouting report. So I think Aiton is special. We can't just talk and rave about him as much as we have. I do too. But I, I think there's always going to be a market now of finding a five

that can finish the game. So I bring this up. I bring this up because Wiseman who keeps just getting thrown in trade rumors left and right. I don't think they want to trade them. I agree with you, by the way, I don't think the Wiseman stuff, it feels like it's coming from everybody else, but I'm not sure.

You're right. If I'm the Warriors and I'm watching this series and I'm like, let's move hell and high water to try to get him to do some of the things we're watching it andon do in these playoffs. If I'm Atlanta, I'm thinking the same thing with Okonkwo. Couldn't that guy be Aiton for us? Just send him home this summer, show him Aiton tapes, and be like, this is what we need from you.

Everything you're seeing from this. I think those are the two guys. And I do wonder if we did that draft again. I think he probably goes higher. Okonk higher. Yeah. I was so impressed with him in very, a very short amount of time that he's been played in the league. Now he's not the size and Aiton's frame alone kind of is a game changer.

I mean, he's, he's big and then he's big, big, you know, and that's stiff at all. Like he's like weirdly life. No.

And he's, he's more fluid in the movements than Wiseman is at this point. I always felt like the downside of Wiseman, even though I like him a lot, was you could see him processing things, but then... He said the same thing about Aiton two years ago. Right, he said the same thing about Aiton,

so you can't just... But I don't always love that. It's always like the Peyton Manning thing, where every rookie that throws a million picks, you're like, you know who threw a ton of picks? Peyton Manning. You're like, all right, right well he's only 500 touchdowns away from being him so you know I guess the blueprint is set and you're talking about Gardner Mitchu so settle down um yeah I just feel like uh Okwongu especially is somebody that um that was a really

good pick 21st overall in the league right now a little too high yeah maybe maybe a 10 maybe maybe having the 30s uh but i don't think when i just look at the list and i think that they're they're really reasonably whether you have 8 and 19th or they have them 25th 27th whatever they clearly have three of the best 30 players in the league now and if you have three of the best 30 players in the league you're And if you have three of the best 30 players in the league, you're probably going to be in the finals. Next topic. Who wins if Brooklyn's healthy against this Phoenix team? I'll give you Harden, 20 pounds overweight, but healthy. And Kyrie, just being Kyrie, but healthy.

What do you think happens in that series? It's too much scoring. I'm not deviating from this nets. We're going to roll everybody thing once we saw it kind of play out a little bit. what do you think happens in that series? It's too much scoring. Yeah. I'm not deviating from this nets. We're going to roll everybody thing. Once we saw it kind of play out a little bit. That's how I feel too. Last topic before we go to one more break.

Is it weird for me to fantasize about Robert Williams becoming Deandre next year for the Celtics? Like, why couldn't it happen? Did we get to you? Just throw me a Like, why couldn't it happen? Did Wick get to you? Just throw me a bone. Just throw me a bone. Why couldn't it happen?

Hey, if you talk up Rob, we're not going to be mad. Nobody's trading for him. He gets hurt every other game. Just say it on paper. Not being hurt would be a great start. Yeah, they just played two weeks in a row. His passing and his catch radius are bigger.

Who has a bigger catch radius are are bigger like who has a bigger catch radius than robert williams like i don't i don't think anybody does and his passing is is arguably better i think eight has like really good offensive awareness now um but he's just not defensively he's not even close defensively like locked in the way you have to be still no he's missing he's missing two other things. He's been better, though, right? We'd agree that it was disastrous, can't put you on the floor, defensive laps, rotation stuff, right?

He's missing two things that Aiton has that aren't skills or considered skills, but I kind of feel like they should be. One is Aiton doesn't really get hurt. Like Robert Williams, he jumps in traffic, lands on people's arms. He goes out of bounds and hits the basket support. He just gets injured.

Things happen to him and it's like, oh, there's another Robert. He falls, lands wrong, lands on his wrist. Aiton's like really durable. So that's one thing. And then Aiton's ability to stay out of foul trouble is just amazing to me. That should be like his Achilles heel.

And then on top of it, he also makes free throws. Everyone on the Suns team makes free throws. Like, what were they? Like 25 for 26 tonight or something? They missed their last one. Yeah, I think they made their first 25. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it seems like they're going to win.

All right, we're going to take one more break, and then I have some weird stuff for you. Before we move on to weird stuff, you had another Aiton point quickly. The part that turned the story for Aiton this year, too, was you saw his give a shit was at a really high level. Yeah. For somebody that looked like he was confused at other times and got, you know, we've been over this.

But I'm like, man, he fights his ass off out there, right? Yeah. That was something we kind of kept coming back to. But he still does it. But I still think there's like another nasty streak or nasty level that he's not even at yet. So that was kind of funny as I was thinking about you talking about Robert Williams because somebody sent me a clip of Rob. And I just thought this was really funny, so I will share. I'm not going to talk too much about it.

But there's a play where the other team's guy goes up, offensively flops into Williams. I mean, it's egregious. And then Williams goes to help him up. And the guy got the call. Right. The guy got the call flopping and williams first instinct is let me help this guy up and god i don't think aiden would do that i don't think aiden would do it but aiden i don't think would i still think there's like a nasty level that i'm

surprised like he's not quite at yet because all the other stuff is you know that's that's that's tough work down there 38 minutes a night in the playoffs. It just is. There's going to be stuff that happens where you're going to get pissed off all the time. And I don't even think he has that, but I'd like to see Rob Williams have a higher, uh, pissiness rating in 21, 22. I think Aiton can get a little nastier. And I think he's going to have an incredible facial hair situation like four or five years from now. Early grays? Yeah, like an Arm and Gilliam type of just a really nice. Yeah, like a, remember the hammer?

Really nice facial hair thing. I do. Do you remember the story that Barkley said about him? He ran an extension cord out of Barkley's back deck into his condo for power. To save power. Oh, my God. Save electricity. We had Holy Cross Hockey Ports did that to us my senior year.

That's just support the team though. Special breed. Some quick ones for you. Why didn't we have the Portis Crowder altercation yet? Does it concern you

that we're not going to get it for game two? I got to tell you for as tough as Crowder is ever since J.R. Smith backhanded him in that Celtics Cavs series. And he never got retribution. Yeah.

I think Crowder gets into the mix, but I don't, I don't think. Okay. I don't think he goes to the part like Portis is what beat up his teammate. Yeah. So yeah,

fair, fair. Okay. Uh, audibly to other stuff. So I had the Red Sox game on tonight. Yes. And Otani, who I've watched a number of Angels Red Sox games this year.

I don't usually watch baseball other than the Red Sox. But Otani's had a couple absolutely terrifying moments against them late in games. One of which was last night. He came up. It seems like the Angels, it's against Adovino, who's great unless he's closing. Adovino, it's 3-1 count, two outs, and it's just like Otani's clearly going to hit a home run to win the game.

Crunches a line drive. We're playing the shift. It is a 200-foot ground ball out to the second baseman who throws him out. And that's it. My point is Otani is terrifying. He's easily the most terrifying guy in the American league. If you're just watching your team play other teams day after day after day, there's no more terrifying hitter. And then I turned the game on today and I forgot that, oh, he's pitching today. And then it's like, oh, there's, and look, I'm not, I'm not creating the first, I can't believe Otani

is the modern day Babe Ruth conversation, but it's just so fucking crazy to watch this dude pitch and then bat second. And I actually feel like this isn't a big enough deal and it makes me question everything. Like, like,

do people care about baseball this way anymore? I feel like if this had happened in 1985, this would have been like if this had happened in 1985, this would have been the biggest thing that happened in any sport that somebody was doing this. We would have lost our fucking minds. And now it's like this little nice cute story

that people are barely talking about. It's a 500 baseball team. It's one of the most incredible athletic feats to do this in the modern age, to do two different jobs at the same time where you're the best home run hitter and you're also an above average starter and you're doing this simultaneously i feel like how have we not we've never talked about this on the podcast you and me and we were both enormous baseball guys. Yeah. Like huge. And I don't know if that Red Sox season last year

turned me off to it too much between the Mookie thing and then calling up pitchers who hadn't pitched in six years. Yeah. It was gross. It was gross if you're a Red Sox fan. I'm back.

I'm all the way back this year with the Red Sox. You were back on it early. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe the rotation would hold up like this. The bullpen's been unbelievable. It feels like there's one big swing and miss guy in the rotation other than when Evaldi has his moments of like, oh, hey, this guy's awesome. heard more nationally about Ichiro who was doing extraordinary things but you were kind of wanting to see it because you heard you had heard about him and Bobby Valentin was the guy being like I'm telling you this Ichiro comes over here like wait until you see it I'll never forget Doug Minkiewicz on the Dan Patrick show doing an interview with DP and Dan was like well he might

win MVP and Minkiewicz is like we better not not. Like in this weird, like, patriotic, weird, like, wait, what was that about? And Ichiro became somebody that I would want to watch. Remember that Mariners team won a million games in 2000? Like, I was watching every Red Sox game, but I would want to watch Ichiro hit. So I'm somebody that's coming to this from a huge baseball fan, but if Otani can't save baseball, then who can? And I think it's actually a bad sign that this

isn't a bigger deal. And he's also really charismatic. This is a make-believe character. A movie make-believe thing is happening, and he's this much better than everybody else. And it's met with national indifference. He had his series this year in Fenway.

He hit two homers that I've never seen anyone hit in the ballpark before. One was a reach over the plate over the wall, which looked like a pop out down the line, and it just went 330 feet. And then he hit another one that hooked around the right field wall. Every time he's up, I just assume he's going to hit a home run. I haven't felt that way about any American league hitter. Um, I can't even remember the last time he's just completely abjectly terrifying and on top of it really likable. And I think his teammates really like him. And it's so funny he's on Trout's team because Trout, we've had all the number crunchers telling us for seven years how valuable Trout was. And I just don't care if I watch him. I've been to multiple

Angel games. It's like, yeah, it's kind of cool to see Mike Trout. It wasn't any cooler than it was to see. Seeing Barry Bonds in person to me was more of an experience. Seen Barry in the, you know, before the, uh, before his head started to grow, just watching him play left field and just seeing how great he was, just that everything was really memorable. And I, I, I want to take my son to see Otani. Cause it's like, I do wonder, A, are we sleeping on this?

B, is this like the most generationally important baseball star we've had? And none of us just realized there's so much going on, pandemic and all that. None of us realize it. Is it a better experience in person? This is the first baseball player, I don't know, since Pedro, that I actually feel like I have to go see. I mean, that's what Pedro was like for me. I mean, the times where

guys were hustling for tickets or I'd be driving down to Boston. I mean, I drove up to Montreal by myself to watch Pedro and I was totally, I didn't want to invite anybody because I didn't have to worry about getting two tickets.

Although back then in Montreal, you were able to, you could probably get two tickets pretty easily. I would say so. Do you feel like DeGrom, has DeGrom hit this point? I just don't think

it's the same numbers wise like the same reason i look at quarterbacks differently and scoring in the nba is dominant as the gram is when i see somebody compare it somebody historically saying hey this is what this is now too so whatever yardage and touchdowns are for quarterbacks all over the place and spread offenses in college and all that kind of stuff and everybody's leading passer ever has been in the last five years i think the gram's great but i'll take pedro's era being under a two when the guy number two behind him in era was over four right you know what pedro was doing in comparison to what else was going on in baseball is stupid and that's why i'd argue pedro's the greatest i've ever well first of all

he's the greatest i've ever seen but you could make historical. He's the greatest pitcher ever considering what he was doing compared to the average for other guys that were doing it. So as great as DeGrom is, and there's some absurd numbers, we're on a run here of pitchers that have put up historical numbers because everybody fucking strikes out all the time. Right. Well, it's like Theo had an interview last week and he was talking about baseball used to be a game played with nine people and now it's a game played with two and that's a problem um with all that said i was trying to think of like the greatest players in my lifetime that you just kind of had to go see and what stood out like my generation grew up but like we just revered p rose this is before all the gambling stuff and

he became such like a ve parody of himself. But like he just we didn't have stats. There was no way to bunk it. It was just like if there's a big game, I want that guy on my team. That guy's going to get a hit. He's going to come through. He cares more than everybody else. He'll bowl over the catcher. You know, there's been a handful

of guys and it just feels like... Ricky Henderson was like that for us. Ricky Henderson, 100%. Because you were scared to death of him all the time and it was a show every minute i mean he's the ultimate performer i remember going to see curry bucket but real charisma too with ricky like really like an experience to see him in person absolutely every minute he was in front of people he was like that too right to me man he's on that list he was in person yeah honestly the some of those cleveland years he had were as horrifying as anything he did with Boston.

But he'd have stretches with Boston where you weren't going to get him out. Yeah, he'd get hot for like six straight weeks where he was just two for four every game. Yeah, and Remy would just start laughing about it. But there was, I think Kirby Puckett, I remember being there for a doubleheader in the 80s against the Twins.

It was just kind of fun to watch because Kirby Puckett was a big deal. But I don't know if it's the sport. I don't know if it's us. But I think the Otani indifference is disappointing. But what's supposed to happen? I remember reading stories a couple of years ago about how Aaron Judge, here's a guy who's got the looks, he's got the size, he's got the charisma, and now he's in New York City and all the things that he's going to size, he's got the charisma, and now he's in New York City and all the things that he's going to put together. It's like Aaron Judge is going to save baseball. I don't know if one person can save it.

I do think Maguire hit that point in the late 90s where he was just hitting home runs that we just hadn't seen before. He was hitting 500-plus-foot homers and everything was a bomb bomb and he just looked like he was a cartoon character. And we didn't know about the steroid part at that point. I think most of us enjoyed the Bonds

part too, right? I remember bartending and if he was up at bat, no one, you weren't getting a drink. I still like the pre-whatever he ended up doing, Bonds, that those first couple Giants years

when he still had his athleticism before he just turned into like a softball player, basically. But yeah, I think the Otani thing, what struck me, what a missed opportunity was for the Yankees. And I'm not the first person to say this either, but the Yankees. And I'm not the first person to say this either, but the Yankees are in a real crisis right now. It's the least liked Yankee team probably

this century. Every friend I have who loves the Yankees, detests this team. They detest how they're put together. They don't like the manager. They think the owner doesn't give a shit. The owner's very Paul Gastony. It's a team, it's a roster you just don't want. It's money going to the wrong people. It's heavily right-handed. Chapman feels like he might be headed the wrong direction. And it's a three-year fix. It's not something where sign somebody, sign this guy, and we're good. And if they had Otani, nobody would care because he would be the most exciting thing that happens in New York City. And it's a shame that, you know, he went to Anaheim where I just feel like that's a guy that should have been on the Dodgers and the Yankees. And that's it. He should

have been on one of those two teams because he's that big of a star. And I think he needed like a historic franchise. I'm, you know, no offense, Angels fans, but I just, and as you know, I hate the Yankees more than anything. It just, he makes so much more sense to me as a Yankee. I think it would have been incredible. So I was researching it because I couldn't remember why he didn't go there. And it turned out what happened was I just forgotten. He actually eliminated them as a contender. He decided he wanted to be on the West Coast. He didn't want to be on an East Coast team. So he cut out the Yankees. So the Yankees couldn't have gotten him anyway.

But it's a shame that he didn't end up on, I don't know, one of the two. The Dodgers and the Yankees, I guess, would be the two teams, right? The Red Sox, I wouldn't have totally needed them. But I just don't know. Maybe you can't have the same impact on the Angels. I don't know.

It's not like the NBA where if somebody is a transcendent superstar, it's going to happen. And it doesn't really matter where it is, right? LeBron's in Cleveland. It doesn't matter. I think it does matter in baseball. I really do. Maybe. I think most everyone would agree, hey, if he's with the Yanks, okay. But does that mean now that you're watching Sunday night baseball? Here's the deal. When the angels are on sunday night baseball are you denying yourself watching otani because he's on the angels when you know just to simply do it now so if he's on the yankees i get that it's a bigger market i get the dodgers are more important in this part of the country than the angels will ever be but i i can't move off the thing that there just seems to be

this kind of like oh that's right that's that crazy story there and people aren't talking about it the way we would be talking about it like this would be an almost daily check-in on national talk radio when i started at espn in 2006 yeah this would be a big part of it you have stringers on from angels games now some of that stuff was outdated in the way that we did it, but you would have thought you were doing the right thing topic-wise and programming-wise. And now I don't ever hear any Otani stuff. And I don't listen as much as I used to, but whatever. I don't think it's a market thing. I think it's a fan thing. I think it is a totality number of fans. And you see it with the Knicks, right? The Knicks are half decent and it feels like the

most gigantic thing in the world. Well, why is that? Because there's a fucking million Knicks basketball fans. There's generations of fans. It's the biggest city we have. And just more people care about the New York Knicks than care about, I don't know, the Detroit Pistons. It's just a fact for nine different reasons. So I think with baseball, the Angels probably have, I don't know, the Detroit Pistons. It's just, it's just a fact for nine different reasons. So I think with baseball, the angels probably have, I don't know, one 30th as many fans as the Yankees, the Yankees that have been around for a kajillion years that are in the biggest city that get passed down by generations. There's just more of them. So maybe more people would be talking about him, which would make it a thing. But I do wonder, once we get through this basketball season

and things settle down, and if Ohtani, you know, he's, I think he's over 30 homers or he's at 29, but if he starts putting together some months and, you know, becomes a conversation, maybe it'll happen. Because what else are we going to talk about? We're going to have like a dead month

before we get into football. Maybe, but we have had some of the most amazing post-seasons in baseball. We've had these incredibly historic moments. Like some of the things that have happened in the last, I don't know,

five, six years of playoffs. Like think how great baseball, like playoff baseball really is when you allow yourself to like immerse yourself in it. Right. That tension. That tension is,

like it's not really matched in any other sport because you're- I'll be immersed this year, Ryan Rosillo, because my team's good. Sounds like it. But I just, I don't know, man. I almost, I feel for baseball in this one

because I think a lot of people will tell if you were in New York, this would be a big deal. I don't know. I think nationally, baseball is just a tough sell, even if Otani is a superhero. I swear we're not doing this segment of here's why you should care more about this, because this stuff's organic. People are going to care about what they want to care about, you know? And to me, the question is more, why don't they care more about this? That's what's

surprising. Like my son cares because Otani is like a little in the TikTok generation because he's got the tape measure homers. He can pitch. He's somebody you can cut in little clips. But just in general, he has not captured the imagination. Another thing, MLB draft is coming this weekend. The Red Sox have the fourth pick. I've read all the mock drafts. I've discussed mock drafts with a couple friends. I have opinions.

And... You want Leiter from Vanderbilt? Jack Leiter, who was the guy I wanted, I had no idea he was Al's son. And once again, we're 100 years old. This came out way late in my research. It's like,

it's Al's son? What? But he's a sophomore, and the funny thing about baseball is you really can leverage the top five a little bit if you can threaten to just go back for another year. So you can be like, all right, Tigers, yeah, take me. Basketball, you're just

kind of stuck with who takes you. Once you're in, you're in. Baseball, there is this little dance you can play. What a much better system, by the way. Way better! When you get drafted, you're in. Baseball, there is like this little dance you can play. What a much better system, by the way. Way better. When you get drafted, you have to play for this team. Right. Can you imagine?

What's a better system? I'm saying for fans, you know how much it would suck if Luka was like, actually, you know what I mean? Or LeBron goes, ah. Well, isn't it real? After two years, I thought this happened with the Rubio situation where you could just sit out

two years of drafts and then you get thrown back in. I thought, but it has to be two years. It just doesn't happen. The baseball thing is different because there was always the signing bonus argument and guys that were supposed to be top 10 picks would get drafted a couple rounds later and then you were trying to figure out the, uh, the slotting for it, which was supposedly never

real, but it was always real. Um, but baseball draft has been different now. Cause I think back when we were growing up, people were just like, I don't know what the hell is going to happen. Nobody kept track of it. Nobody even, it wasn't even televised. I don't think you just kind of read about it in the paper the next day. I think July, which is always a terrible sports month has been lit with the finals with the MLB draft. We have Wimbledon. The euros have been amazing. I watched that entire Spain,

Italy game today. I thought, uh, soccer really needs to figure out the whole, our team's dead. Let's just play for PKs. Let's just, let's just basically park it for the last 25

minutes of this game and take our chances that's a tough one it is but i don't think it's i don't think it's as bad like every time i throw on one of those games it's kind of like i'll have stuff going on during the day and i go okay you know it's relaxing you're not gonna want to change the channel yeah and it's as we've talked in the past about the replay stuff with the NBA, the NBA is eliminating too many moments at the end of games. Like the NBA is a game with a series of audits the last few minutes. Yeah. And when you watch soccer and it's all like, yes, VAR sucks and everybody's mad about it and all that kind of stuff. But there's more moments where there's this momentum building to one side and then there's this goal that happens and you're like oh my god and the presence like the stadium and this

feel and obviously i think just it being foreign um for us that are all watching there's like this this extra value to it that's hard to explain because it feels like something that's so far away from us it's happening but um i, I do have a soccer fix. Oh, okay. Go ahead. It's going to make the soccer fans mad. That doesn't happen very often. I don't want to change

the number of subs that a team can have. I think you should be allowed to sub a guy back in once if you want. So you're my striker. I take you out at like the 55 minute mark and I bring in some fresh legs, get to extra time. I can pull you back for the extra time. If I want, you can come back in once. Cause this is basically like, uh, you know, you soccer, most levels, they'll have versions of this. But, um, I don't like the concept of once somebody's out, they're out.

I think you should get a little more leeway with that. It seems like something they came up with in like 1892 and they didn't really think it through. And now we're just kind of stuck with it for the rest of our lives. Why can't the person come back in? I'm all for it.

How many extra times do we have to watch where everybody's dead? Like, what are we doing? Yeah, I imagine the fact that we both all for it. How many extra times do we have to watch where everybody's dead? What are we doing? I imagine the fact that we both are for it means the soccer people hate it. Right. What are you doing? It's kind of like the overtime thing in basketball. If you foul

out and then there's overtime, shouldn't you be able to come back in and have one more foul? Something like that? What's the problem with wanting to bring back the better players? Now granted, fouling out, you're being penalized for the teams taking you out. It's part of the,

I'm sure part of the reason why it's like, Hey, if you're that much better physically, if you're fitness level, if you're that well fit, you should be rewarded for it. But I think if there's all this extra time and the stuff that we're watching now,

like, I don't know, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But again, I'm not exactly the guy to go to to ask about it it's a brutal amount of running um Conor McGregor

what's trying to go but I don't think it's going to happen so my theory on this is that eventually the old guy they lose it and then there's like four more fights and they lose like three of the four and then they're basically done and then we realize like, oh, they got old.

I don't know if he's at that point yet, but I was talking to Ariel Huani about it who doesn't think he's at that point. But he's nearing it potentially. But do you feel like McGregor is still a must watch for you? Like you have to clear out the Saturday night. There's no way you can miss it.

Is he on that level? Yeah, he is. He is. Now, I think the big thing with the second Poirier fight is that everyone around it was like, I can't believe how poorly prepped he was for the leg kicks. And that's anybody, like, I'm asking John Anik. I'm going, what the hell? What happened?

He goes, everybody knew about it. Everybody talked about it. And he wasn't ready for it. So you would think that's the first thing that they change going into this one i also think mcgregor so his likability scale is really low so i think people like watching him fail like whenever somebody includes the mayweather loss as part of how many losses he's had in the last four years i'm like okay you included the mayweather loss like give me a break. Come on.

Yeah. So, we'll see. But yeah, I'm going to watch it. I wasn't even thinking about going, but the perfect storm of Vegas being open, Conor fighting again, all the restrictions dropping off the last couple weeks. This is not an easy ticket to get,

so I'm out. He has a special relationship in the Simmons family because my daughter uses his CBD spray. If it's great for soccer, like you have like a sore, like you get kicked in the leg or something, you spray it on. It's like the Terminator. Is that clear? Is that clear? And what are the high school youth association in California? Did you just knock her out? I hope not. It's a good one though. Those sprays now are unbelievable.

Remember back in the day, we used to have to just sit in a vat of icy hot to feel better. Now it's like you spray this one thing on you and your injuries magically disappear. Magically disappear? Well, they just feel better. Sounds like you should be doing some CBD spray spots.

I probably should. This is like a free plug for them. Listen, I love any product that makes my daughter, if she's in pain, feel better. So I'm supporting that hook, line, and sicker. This one off the rails. I flew cross country with her last week to Boston. How'd that go?

Guess what? People still suck. It's good to have it back. with her last week to Boston. How'd that go? Guess what? People still suck. It's good to have it back. You forget the pandemic. You're not around people all the time. People are still super annoying. You just forget.

Give me an example. Eh, you know. Did the two guys across the aisle have to talk all six hours? Probably not. Wow. You don't like guys talking to each other? Nah, not for six hours. Probably not. Wow. You don't like guys talking to each other? Nah, not for six hours, loudly. No. You don't have earbuds? Can't afford any? You didn't find

you don't feel like you're more annoyed by people now that we're getting acclimated back into society, which is great, by the way? Yeah, I didn't do a good job of interacting with people for a year plus. So I'll admit, this has been a tougher transition for me than maybe I thought. You think you're too weird now?

Yeah, definitely. Oh, really? You crossed the line. You're officially weird now. I was always a bit agoraphobic, but agoraphobic is probably strong. I'm not Bill Murray at the beginning of What About Bob? You're left in the Simmons house. Maybe you just need to hang out with Ben Simmons. Just come over and you could lift.

By the way, Ben Simmons is lifting now. Okay, tell him not to do squats and stuff. He's not doing that. Just curls. He doesn't want to do that. Maybe I'll come over and teach him some form. But yeah, I think... Look, I know you always joke about me not having any friends, being by myself all the time. I know that people actually do like me, especially once they get to know me.

It's like a Stuart Smiley sketch. Yeah. I like me. I'm worthy. But your boy spent a lot of time by himself. And then when I went out to Vermont, you Vermont, I had to watch games every single night. Yeah. So that was like two plus weeks.

And I've got this great lake set up. And then my friends were like, what are you going to do? Can you come over for dinner or whatever? I was like, no, not really. And then one guy stopped by on Sunday. And I think we did 12 and a half hours on one Sunday. And he just walked by and saw me taping and then left. So, yeah, we're slowly getting back to speed.

We'll figure it out. I think you should take all of August off and punt on the 2021 NBA draft. I can't punt on the draft. You can't. You love it too much. I've already done like 30 scouting reports. So, shout out to Synergy. I have a couple guys. I have some done like 30 scattering reports. So, uh, I have a couple of guys.

I have some guys. Who are guys that you're warming up to here? Oh, there's not a warmup there. It's a full on, it's a full on heat check with me and Book Knight.

You like Book Knight that much, huh? Yeah, I'm in on him. He, and some of the draft guides, he's like low,

you know, the 18 to 22 range. That doesn't make sense. That guy's gonna be good. I'm in on him. He, on some of the draft guides, he's like low, you know, the 18 to 22 range. That doesn't make sense. That guy's going to be good. I'm in on him. Seems like him. He always seems lower than how teams talk about him with Booknight. I would agree. Again, I don't talk to every team, so. Especially coming right out

of the playoffs and you just, as always, I look through the draft and I just try to picture. I'll go, I'll read, I'll read KOC and Charks and those guys. Read the draft guides. Then I'll go on YouTube and do like the quick blink tech, Gladwell blink test. And it's just hard not to watch the playoffs and think like,

all right, are you a three and D guy? Are you an instant offense point guard? Are you a three hours big guy? Are you like a six, seven undersized, but you can hit threes and you're tough and you're not going to get overrun? There's only like five types of players anymore. So if somebody is not one of those five guys, are you a shooter? Can you just shoot threes? If you're not like one of the five or six types, why am I drafting you? Yeah, I think the story of the draft right now is,

are there going to be a few teams regret, regretting passing on Jalen Green? Like, is Jalen Green going to be the story of this draft five years from now? Or regretting taking him too high. Yeah. But there's, there's more Jalen green love out there.

Um, than there is like angst about, because the physical stuff, he all checks all the boxes. He does things in some of those G league games. None of the other guys do. And that's against men. And that jumped from that G league stuff with the 10 teams,

which we've already talked about. Like there's a significant gap and you have to remember that when you're watching Jalen Green versus watching Jalen Suggs, who I like a lot at Gonzaga. The Jalen part of it is... It feels like that's at least the story now at the top of the draft.

Is somebody going to go, wait, he's going two or he's going three, and then we look back in a couple years and be like, I can't believe he didn't go number one, which I'm certainly not certain of at all. Sometimes these drafts, we just decide who the number one guy is before everybody

goes balls deep in their homework. And it feels like Cunningham just penciled in one. But this happened with Fultz, right? Where it was just like Fultz is number one. It's like, is he? And then the Celtics were like, he and then they traded back I have the tweets to back that one up but I was I said hey why isn't Tatum even mentioned for one like why is Fultz thought to be so far ahead it was because Fultz off the international stuff and the end-to-end stuff

and that team sucked and um you know then he had the injury flags but i always thought that tatum and look there's other stuff i've gotten wrong certainly but um the tatum one never made any sense to me because when you watch tatum when he was healthy and he missed some time because the foot you're like this guy's like six six or six seven six eight and he can handle like this and go and and he's got this mid-range pull-up like how the hell is this guy at this size with this movement how is he not even considered to be one? And you're right. Fultz, it was just decided.

My issue with Cunningham, if I'm taking somebody number one in the draft and I don't feel like that person can ever be a top five guy at his position, why am I doing that? So my issue with Cunningham, which I would have to figure out if I was the Pistons, and I would have to do an incredible amount of recon on it,

is like, can this guy be a top five guy at his position? Five years from now, six years from now, whatever. Is that conceivable? You don't know the answer. Top five guy? Yeah. Top five guy. One of the five best point guards at some point in his career.

And if he can't, then why am I taking him first? Because you think like Jalen Green, whether he makes it or not, he at least has the tools and the upside slash ceiling that potentially he could be a top five guy at that position at some point in his life. Yeah, but I wouldn't argue with that way. I'm sorry. I just wouldn't. So like, okay, because Jalen fits the physical profile, like, yeah, maybe he could be a top five guy

like that. I also think the point guard position is so incredibly deep that if Cade is six to ten, there's still a really good chance that you look at somebody six to ten in the position going, all right, I still would have been okay taking him number one overall. I mean, it does feel more and more, though, like there's going to be some weird surprise like there normally is that somebody maybe who goes six

and you're like, you know what? Everybody should have taken this guy. Like, I don't think it's Keyon Johnson at Tennessee if he ended up being the best player in this draft five years from now. I'd be a little surprised by that. What about Moe?

Basketball. I love his skills. I love the fact that he's kind of like that five that we think can stay on the floor, you know, that we were talking about before we were talking about Aiton. I think he's a little passive at times,

but I think it's oddly because he's the younger brother and his brother's actually on the team and his dad's the coach that maybe he's going to grow out of that overnight. So I don't even look at it as some negative. I just think there's some passivity at times from him that I would like to not see ever. If I was Detroit, I would try to move back a spot. I would basically do the Tatum-Fultz trade and try to move back a spot, I would basically do the Tatum-Fultz trade and try to move backwards and get mobile and get something else. But what do I know?

I'm just a guy looking at YouTube clips. Speaking of draft, Trent Dilfer invited me to the QB Elite 11 down at Maricosta here at high school last week. I didn't tell you about this. Oh my god. So Spencer Rattler was there. Did not throw when I was there. Did you have to socialize with people? I this. Oh my God. So Spencer Rattler was there. Did not throw when I was there. Did you have to socialize with people?

I did. I did great. You did good? Good. Yeah. Sam Howell was there, the UNC kid. And then Malik Willis, the stud from Liberty. Who?

We actually, yeah. We spent a little time with him. Always like to see younger guys who are great around older dudes. And he's built like a middle linebacker playing quarterback by the way, too. So, um, Malik was do the thing where he put, gets all of them. And he's like, let's go to lunch. And then he takes the car keys and he just kind of throws them toward the group and sees who grabs them. No, cause Duff wasn't allowed to be there because one of the high school players was there. So it was against the rules. So, yeah. So the car keys thing.

Well, what was funny is the guys that knew how close I am with Dilfer were like, hey, by the way, that you're not here for the full Dilfer experience with the quarterback kids, the college kids that are the counselors that are going to be draft picks, and then with the 20-something high school kids, right?

And so the kid for Ohio State that was supposed to go to texas and then he he committed and went to ohio state his um his stuff seemed to be the most impressive but then some of the counselors told me that you know there were there was like my eye is not as trained for a quarterback as it is for the nba guys all right so anyway what yeah back to it back to it though um they were like the fact that you're not here to experience Dilfer on 11, screaming, but in the most passionate, loving way, you're missing out on something that's worth the price of admission. So hopefully I'll get to see that one day.

But it was a really cool experience. Lead 11 does a great job. So thanks to everybody who had me on. All right. What do you have on the podcast this week? We're doing a big look at name, everybody who had me out. What do you have on the podcast this week? We're doing a big look at name, image, and likeness. A reporter that's on it, a friend of mine that

runs a business that's sponsoring athletes now and a woman that I know that is part of an app that's trying to connect players to brands. This is uncharted territory, so I'm going to try to do a deep dive on that. I have an open route now. We'll do some life advice and then we'll figure it out because I knew we'd do all this NBA stuff tonight. I wasn't going to try to do a deep dive on that. I have an open and out. We'll do some life advice and then we'll

figure it out because I knew we'd do all this NBA stuff tonight. I wasn't going to do it again in the morning. So there you go. Rousseau, good to see you as always. Thank you. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rousseau. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, our producer. We will see you again on Thursday night

leading with game two of the finals and then a whole bunch of other stuff as well. Back then. On the wayside On the first side of the river I'm saying I don't have to ever