The Bill Simmons Podcast - Suns-Warriors, Anthony Edwards, LSU’s Big Hire, and a Kenny G Interview | With Wosny Lambre, Van Lathan, and Kenny G

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lambre to discuss the Suns’ win over the Warriors, take stock of the Western Conference, and talk about Bill’s newest League Pass crush: the Timberwolves (2:13). Then Bill talks with Van Lathan about LSU football’s new head coach, Brian Kelly (44:19). Finally Bill is joined by Grammy-winning musician Kenny G to discuss the upcoming HBO documentary ‘Listening to Kenny G’ (1:10:50). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kenny G, Wosny Lambre, and Van Lathan Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you enjoyed the Every Single Album podcast on the Ringer Dish feed, we spun it off into its own feed. Every Single Album, kept the name, Nathan Hubbard, Norm Princiati. Not only are they breaking down Taylor Swift, right now they're breaking down every single Adele album. Go check it out. Every Single Album available on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's

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We're going to be doing JFK. Yeah, JFK. It took four people to do this podcast. So that's going up on Wednesday night. Stay tuned for that. Coming up on this podcast, Big Waz and I are going to react to Warrior Sons,

which just ended as I'm taping this right now. And then Van Lathan pops on to talk about LSU finding a new coach and some advice for that new coach and what it means to coach LSU. And then finally, Kenny G, who is the subject of this week's Music Box Series documentary.

It is called Listening to Kenny G. It's directed by Penny Lane. It's fantastic. And there's some missing pieces that I wanted to find out about Kenny's life that we didn't cover in the doc, although we cover some of the stuff that's in the doc too. But if you haven't heard Kenny G be interviewed,

he's a really entertaining guy. So that is the podcast for today. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is almost 9.30 Pacific time. Warrior Suns just ended. Wesley Lambry is here, a.k.a. Big Waz. A reliable guy for me for late-night West Coast games. This one mattered.

This one mattered. It felt like it mattered as we were watching it. It felt, they always said like, oh, it feels like a playoff game. This really did. This felt like game four of a playoff series. It didn't feel like game one. It felt like the teams had already felt each other out.

There was some defensive stuff going on that was pretty high level. There was some solving stuff where I'm like, oh, I can't wait. Oh, wait, they're not going to play in two days. This is it. It's just going to linger. What was the most fascinating thing for you in this game? For me, it's the Suns' defensive choices, right? They have the wing depth where they could go straight up small man lineup, put out Cam Johnson, put out Crowder, of course Bridges with the two lead guards and do a heavy switch thing

because that's been proven to be the best way to guard Golden State. It's like we're switching all your off-ball stuff. You're going to have to – we're keeping you in front of us, beat us one-on-one. But the Suns are like, nah, we like our big man. We like how switchable Aiton is. And not only that, he gives us an incredible advantage on offense. And so that's what I was most fascinated by, how they negotiated

how they wanted to guard Golden State. And it was like, no, we're going to stay big. That's our advantage, which I thought was very interesting. Well, and then the Bridges extension, which was a little polarizing. I loved it because I just feel like I want guys who I know could be in a playoff series and can win playoff series. And you need a guy like him. And he's one of the best versions of him. He's actually gotten better this year. I saw KOC tweeted that, you know, he had Draymond as defensive player of the year, he said, but he's like, Bridges should be monster today and does feel like he's gone up a level. And the deal, I think they got him for under, what was it, under $100 million for four years? I think he's 96. Four years, 96.

Something like that. And the reason I was cool with it is there's not a lot of guys who could do what we saw today. He can guard the Jason Tatum guys, but he can also guard Steph. Now, Steph has shit games from time to time. It happens. You throw it out. But he also had a shit game Now, Steph has shit games from time to time. It happens. You throw it out, but he also had a shit game

because this team has bridges innate. And those are two really hard guys to play. Yes, and it's not just that he's guarding Steph around the screens, that he's straight up guarding him on an island one-on-one when Steph tries to isolate, is that he's pinning stuff to the backboard on help side.

He's doing everything on defense i think draymond he's showing himself this year that he's still the best defensive player in the year in the in the league yeah mikhail bridges is special i think i was on your podcast bill and people thought i was hot taking i was like this dude's better than ben simmons like like it's so obvious what he does for a team that has championship aspirations. Like, he's guarding the hell out of Steph. Today he didn't shoot it well, but whatever. He's attacking closeouts.

He's making good quick passes to people like Aiton and Cam Johnson. He just was incredible. Like, straight up when Steph had him on an island, he didn't want to attack him. And I thought that was telling. Yeah, and Steph will have these games when you can tell that he wants it to get going, right? Which is why he keeps shooting. He's just kind of waiting for that first one to go and it just never happened today. But I also think

Bridges is a really hard guy to attack. And this game, I really like this Warriors team. To me, this game exposed the one thing that I think they need to address at the trade deadline, which ironically, I just talked about recently with I think Corral Bob or KSC somebody. It's the loony piece of this, which against 27 of the teams in the league,

it doesn't matter. But when you have Aiton playing as inspired as he played tonight, and Aiton can stay out there and he can switch and you can get him in a mismatch, but it's not a mismatch because he has the ability to guard perimeter guys. I kind of need a center that can at least go toe-to-toe with him a little bit. And I don't know if they think Wiseman is that guy or not,

can become that guy this year. I'm doubtful. We've seen Looney. We've been with him six years. I think it's a lot to ask from Draymond and Crunch Time to go against Aiton. We've seen him do it, but I think it's a lot to ask. And especially if it's a seven game series, they have no malleability other than Draymond in the last six minutes of a game. And that's why I keep going back to Indiana and Miles Turner. And if there was a Wiseman-Miles Turner thing, where those were the principles of some deal, and I'm putting Miles Turner in the game I just watched,

they have a better chance to win. I just, that's how I feel. What do you think? Well, anybody who knows me knows that I'm like the captain of the Miles Turner fan club. Hashtag free Miles Turner. Yeah. Please, for the love of God, send him to a team that matters so he can do what he does in the playoffs, which is elite rim protection. And look, I know his three pointer waxes and wanes, but like he's a threat from out there.

Right. You have to pay attention to him. One hundred percent. And he has to move around. I think the problem for the Warriors, so many things come to my mind watching this game. A couple of things is the Suns have no glaring weaknesses. They have wing depth. They have a big that can beat switches.

They got two primary ball handlers, not one, which I think that's what's Golden State's biggest weakness, to my mind, because if it's going to come down to a team like the Suns being like, all right, Steph, you have to beat the one that beats us, breaks us down all the time. Every possession against quality, against length, against quickness, against toughness, against defensive know-how, high IQ, high motor guys. You have to be the one that does it all the time. I think that's their biggest problem. The Suns can be like, look, we're going to let Chris Paul do it for possessions. We're going to let Devin Booker do it for possessions.

And guess what? None of them are as good as Steph at it, obviously. Steph is one of the greatest players of all time at it. But at least there's two of them that have to do it. This stuff is going to wear on Steph. I think the Warriors have to figure out shot creation. To me, when it comes to the very

best defenses, the way the Suns tonight demonstrated themselves to be. Well, they relied on Wiggins this year a little bit. Who can score? But then when it's a game like this, you're relying on Andrew Wiggins. Poole is another one who's like a wildcard guy,

and he was good today in the first three quarters. But once it gets... To me, the fourth quarter is really all that matters when I'm watching a game like this because everything slows down. Everything gets hyper tight. The defense has figured out everything you're doing at this point. And you just look at the stuff the Warriors were getting down the stretch.

Like Draymond, they're not even worried about him. They're not worried about Gary Payton. Well, that's always been the case. Right, yeah. But Draymond has figured out this way to impact when the other team's not worried about them. But the Suns were really like, we're not worried. We don't think you're going to shoot.

We don't believe there's any shooting situation for you. Payton's out there. There's that play. What? Six minutes left? Just left him alone for three. It was like he could have stood there for 20 seconds. They weren't coming out at him. So, Klay's going to help a little bit, but Klay's not exactly Mr. Ball creation either.

No, he's not. And that's the thing. Look, if Klay comes back, he's going to be another really good perimeter defender, but they got enough guys that remember Klay used to have to guard LeBron, Westbrook, Cade. He would have to guard every single big perimeter threat. Him and Iguodala in tandem. I think they have enough guys where he won't have to do that. But that's what I'm saying. I'm watching this game. And again, the Jordan Poole shots, if you're're watching it it's off of Golden State's flow their

actions he's getting it off pin downs he's shooting off the dribble off of a screen and roll right like somebody's get his man is getting planted by a great screen and he's pulling up and he's firing right like he's coming off of screens and just firing like these are off of their actions now when you're playing against a team who's just like no like we're switching those things no matter who it is yeah we're every you catch the ball, there's a defender right in front of you and you don't have a clean look at the basket. I think the best teams, and we've always seen it every post season, the Warriors, their beautiful game stuff isn't as effective. Teams are just like, they're more keyed in than they are in the regular season so i think jordan pool is great i love watching him play like his green light is the greenest probably

since iverson yeah it's like yo this dude he catches the ball he's like i'm putting this up and clay is gonna have a tremendous impact on defenses and how panicky they get. You know, every game we watch the Warriors, Bill, we see inevitably Steph comes off of a screen, he gets the ball. Two guys converge on him. Easy layup at the basket because he passes it, right? Like, Klay Thompson creates a bunch of those. Like, they're going to get a bunch of that when Klay comes. But I think when it comes down to the nitty-gritty against a team

like the Suns who just have the pieces, like their wing depth defensively is just so incredible. That's something Golden State needs to be watching for. Yeah, and you can't overreact. Phoenix is supposed to win their home. Now, on the other hand, Booker was out. Right. So if I'm a Suns fan, I'm feeling awesome because Curry sucked,

and now I feel like alright we just kind of showed the blueprint for how to at least slow him down he's going to make more shots than me tonight but also like we won without Booker we beat you without our best scorer and a guy who you could make a case was the first team all NBA

guy you know at least for the first fourth of the season because I think if you're talking about him versus Luca for that second spot next to Curry, you can make a case it's Booker with the way how well the Suns are playing. So they don't have him. And yet these other guys stepped up and it's, you know, I think their bench is better.

Shamit, who just, it seemed like Brooklyn kind of quit on last year. He's up and down. He's up and down. But I don't mind having him out there as a second unit guy. You know, their second unit, at least like I like the shots

they were getting. I wasn't sure they were going in. His defense is so much improved than when he was with the Clippers. Honestly, like I would go to Clippers games and watch him and like, you know, the concept of him was this 3 and D guy. And I'm just like,

this D stuff that you guys are talking about, I don't really see it. He's way better on that end than he was when he was on the Clippers. And he's been in big games too, which I like. He's been in every single season. Big playoff series. Peyton is the one I don't trust. Because Stan Van Gundy at one point was like,

Belford Peyton? He started for a playoff team last year. I was like, yeah. And the fans of that playoff team hated his guts. What is your point? Payton is not the answer. No. If Payton is the answer to your question,

you need to take another test. I don't know what to tell you. But again, I think that was a Booker thing. Booker got hurt, so they thrust him in there, and those minutes were pretty freaking ugly. Just a bunch of blown layups, the the ball handling wasn't there it was nasty but again like i think the key to this game what it came down to in the first quarter the suns had they they gave up 35 points but they had 20 points in the paint yeah and the warriors got off 12 threes

and i'm like man i don't know like do do you trust a defense that gives up 12 Golden State Warriors threes in a freaking quarter? And, you know, credit to Manny. He was like, no, this is the defense that's going to win the day for us. And over the course of the game, they clamped down on these guys. And it was pretty impressive to see. I owe the Suns an apology. I didn't realize they were this damn good, defensively specifically. It's pretty impressive. Manny threw a no-hitter except for when he wandered on the court like Shooter and Hoosiers. He got a technical. I don't think I've ever seen that. It's like I've watched thousands of basketball games. I've never seen the coach accidentally walk on the court, not

realizing that nobody called timeout. That was pretty funny. This is like Bizarro J. Kid dropping the soda on the court. Right. If I'm Golden State, I'm looking at this game and I'm really studying it. Because I'm going to see Phoenix at some point. These are the two best teams barring injury. They're going to cross pass.

Odds are at some point. And I would be really concerned about the matchup stuff with them if games 1, 2, 5, and 7 are in Phoenix. Where it's like, alright, Aiton's out there. Booker

and Bridges are out there. Chris Paul's out there. Crowder's out there. What's my best lineup against those five guys? Do I have enough size? Do I have enough shooting? Can I play Draymond with another center? And I'm basically playing three on five with the way this Phoenix team plays defense. And that goes back to the, you know, do I need to use that Wiseman piece now? I think Kaminga is untouchable. But the Wiseman thing, it would have seemed crazy two years ago

to say, I'm going to trade this second pick in the draft for Miles Turner. It's not crazy if you think you could actually win the title if you're one piece away. And I think they're one piece away. I think that piece is the loony spot. Yeah, you know,

the reason why they even drafted Wiseman in the first place is that their organization you know they just believe in size like they're really big proponents of you need big ass people on your team like they really believe in that which is going back to the bogey trade I mean think of that was the first trade they made they got size always they want they want size like the idea of not drafting La lamella which was like he doesn't fit our culture which was preposterous like ball movement passing i mean this he's called the state warriors player but they were just like no we want size so i think you're hitting on something that they themselves believe they need

a big body down there. But Wiseman hasn't played a single minute. So it's tough to be like, oh, they're going to move on from him after one season of a number two overall pick. Or could he be the guy? Or do you look at Aiton and Diego? Maybe Wiseman can turn into that guy. They need something.

I don't think they're that far away, though. And I think if this game is in Golden State, Steph hits one, three, crowd gets going, and maybe he snaps into it a little bit better. But I will say, he had five of the uglier shots that he's taken that I've seen. I watch a lot of Warriors.

He had five possessions that were really, really bad in this game, what made you think like, oh, the Suns have really scouted this. They have really determined a couple things that they've figured out. Now, Golden State will adjust and they'll figure out the reversal.

But the sad thing is we won't see that game for weeks. The book on Steph is that length gives him trouble. Like, that's been the story. And it's not that, oh, he can't do anything against length. It's like, that's what makes him work the hardest, right? And another thing I want to say about Ait that, oh, he can't do anything against like this. Like that's what makes him work the hardest. Right. And another thing I want to say about Aiden, man, like watching this game, if I'm a Dallas Mavericks fan, I got a pit in my stomach because Aiden is doing everything you need Chris Stapps to do that would take that team to the other level. Right.

What he's doing on defense, actually, his size matters. He's a huge dude. He's a deterrent at the rim. When he's protecting out on the perimeter, he's giving people space because he can make up with his size and his length. And then on the other side, putting little guys on him is untenable.

He's beasting them and he's finishing in the cup. He uses his length correctly. He feels like a 7-plus footer. Yeah. Like, you feel him. He feels like a big guy. Chris Stapps does not play like that.

And that's the difference between what the Suns are doing and what Dallas is doing. They don't have a threat in that way that, like, all right, when you guys try to play us in these gimmicky type of defense, it's not that switching is a gimmick, but you know what I mean. You don't play any guys over 6'8", and I have a 7'3 guy on

my team, and it freaking works. Aiton, he's not allowing that. He does not allow these little guys to guard him, and it's pretty impressive. It was impressive tonight. I think the one seed is really going to matter this year in the West.

I like Phoenix's home crowd. And you think like they got a good crowd. Milwaukee steals that game in game five. They didn't steal it. They took it. But that game came down

to one or two plays, right? And Giannis just being one of the freak athletes we've ever had in the history of the league. But if Milwaukee had to go back there for a game 7 I think that would have been hard I think for

Golden State it would be hard to go back in there they're both tied at 18 and 3 they have 4 game lead over Utah I don't see that changing I think it's going to be a 1-2 thing it's hilarious that the Lakers had better odds than both of those teams heading into the season

the Lakers are a odds than both of those teams heading into the season. The Lakers are a robust 12 and 11. But I was waiting for the Lakers portion of this. Listen, you know I love nothing more than bad Laker games. But you look at the rest of the West,

we'll take out Utah. Dallas looks like a mess. And the on-off stats with them defensively with Luke are alarming. Memphis, Ja already got hurt. I mean, he's coming back, but it's just the way he plays, I feel like

that's going to be a recurring thing. He plays reckless is a strong word, but he just, fearless is the right word. Yeah. As fearless as he is, you're going to have some, you know, the bumps and bruises. Yeah. Yeah.

The bar has been lowered. So you got them, you got the Clippers who have no Kawhi, who on any given night can lose to anybody. Anyone can go into LA and beat them. Now they're an above 500 team, but whatever. You got Minnesota, who I want to talk about in one second. The Lakers, Portland, and then Denver in the 10th spot.

10 and 10. And the MPJ extension is now immediately one of the worst extensions of all time. They didn't have to do it. I mentioned this to Raul Bob last week. They didn't have to do it. The guy had played 120 games.

And like 15 playoff games. They gave him a max extension. Like he was this proven sure thing. He fell in the draft because of his back issues. I just would have waited. I would have waited as long as possible on that one. I'll never forget listening to John Hollinger on a podcast, talking to somebody.

I forget who he was talking to, but he was still in memphis during the mpj draft and um porter jr came up and john hollinger said porter jr has the worst medical i've ever seen he was in memphis for damn near 10 years he said it's the single worst medical we ever got back ever yeah so like this is not really a surprise to anyone who's kind of been in the know about and pj is tragic i you know i hope because you know they put out the statement that they're taking the long view right here and so they're opting for surgery because he's going to be a part of their long-term planning and that surgery is terrifying i mean this just blows up man i just think about right after they made

the gordon trade last season right and watching them put the beat down on um the la clippers not some game where they kind of when it was back and forth no wire to wire they kicked the shit out of the clippers right right after embarrassing them in the bubble. And it was just like, no, we're just straight up better than you. We're not scared of you. We're one of the best teams in this damn conference. And y'all damn sure not beating us in a series. And then it all just freaking falls apart.

And now, like, you're getting ACLs. You're getting back surgeries. This sucks. Bad luck. And they have a guy who's one of the best four players in the league who's still kicking ass. And you look around

and his three through 12 roster is pretty brutal. It's like LeBron and Ira Neubel level at this point. Ira Neubel. I forgot about that. Well,

it's sitting there for Sacramento as the 11 seed right now. And they're 8 and 14 and they can't stay out of their own way. So what's funny is I look at it and you think alright, two of these teams aren't making the playoffs.

All of them are going to make the play-in game. But there's a world we could not have Jokic and Luka in the playoffs. We might not have Luka and LeBron in the playoffs. We might not have Dame and Jokic in the playoffs. We might not have Luka and LeBron in the playoffs. We might not have Dame and Jokic in the playoffs. Like two got two superstars are not going to make it into the final eight in the

West. I think, or it could be Paul George who knows. Um, I want to take a quick break and then, uh, I have another topic to discuss that I have not tipped you off on. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember.

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redefine possible with business platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express Terms and conditions apply Visit amex.ca slash business platinum All right, Waz I didn't give you a heads up on this I've been saving it I didn't want to text it to you

It's a prediction I have no inside info It's just 20 years of reading the LeBron tea leaves. Season's not going well, to say the least. I have a prediction. It's going to be in the next three weeks. Somebody will write. Don't be surprised if LeBron finishes his career in Cleveland.

And it'll be unnamed source. He's really impressed with Evan Mobley. There's a certain symmetry to going back there and finishing it. His Lakers contract is up next year. Bronny graduates high school next year. Dot, dot, dot. Don't be surprised if he finishes his career in Cleveland.

Second part. And don't be surprised if he takes a major ownership stake with the team after he retires in Cleveland. Your thoughts on this fake story that I just made up. I mean, it's, it would be less surprising than the first time he went back to Cleveland. Okay.

Cause you know, cause people got to understand, like people don't remember the decision and the Dan Gilbert stuff and how extremely toxic that was. For two years. Dan Gilbert of it all. But the Gilbert part specifically, he was publicly nasty and toxic to LeBron. Talking about that man like he was his child or his little helper. He was the help that somehow he you know, he didn't give

enough deference to Dan freaking Gilbert. So the fact that LeBron went back that first time, and it's been well documented that that relationship was still strained even when he went back. That's why he did the one plus ones and all of that. Like, that to me was way more shocking because of the vitriol

from Dan Gilbert and he went back anyway. You know, of course, he was the championship fairytale, whatever. I think the ownership part definitely sounds intriguing. It just feels like LeBron, but you know, it's not like he's not going to retire to LA anyway. It just feels like he's so rooted in LA now, you know, in a way that he never was in Miami for sure. He just feels like he's part of this LA thing. So who knows? We'll see.

I'm not saying this will actually happen. I'm just saying as a story that becomes a story for two to three days that gets floated out as the red herring and maybe not even by LeBron's side, just it gets out there. But as one of those red herring stories

for a couple days just to get, oh, Cleveland, could it gets out there. But as one of those red herring stories for a couple of days just to get, oh, Cleveland, could it be? And then, you know, it's leading first take the next day and we go through the whole cycle. I used to be one of those people that didn't buy the concept that LeBron was very aware of the quote unquote conversation. Right. And that, you know, if something was going to ske skew he'd plan a story or he'll say a crazy quote or just to get the pendulum like don't forget about LeBron now and I didn't buy

it until the Steph Curry thing when that thing like sort of took off in 15-16 right and LeBron was so obviously salty about it I was like damn maybe there is something to LeBron and these headline-stealing tendencies that he has. So, look, the Lakers are a non... Like, they're bad and they're just not even bad in a way that's interesting. It's just ugly, nasty basketball. Well, they have no outs.

What do they do? People... I don't know. I don't... Who takes Westbrook? Nobody. And then, poor Frank Vogel. He's like, wait. Bruh. Wait, you're blaming me? What did I do?

You guys traded for Russ Westbrook. You got rid of Caruso. You got rid of everybody I had who could defend anyone. It's my fault? They were the number one defense in the NBA two years in a row with a core of guys who suffocated people on the perimeter. Like if, if anybody who watched Laker games the last two years, Caruso, KCP, Kuzma, and LeBron were flying around the perimeter. They were incredible perimeter defense and they had AD

and Dwight Howard backing them up in the paint. Like, they were an incredible defense to watch. They were fun to watch on defense. That's how they got all of this transition stuff that they were doing. They're still fun to watch on defense. I hate to break it to you. They're fun for you because they're horrible. Yeah, they blew up the nucleus of the defense. It was just like, yeah, yeah, Vogel will figure out how to make Malik Monk into a defender.

Vogel will figure out how to make Malik Monk into a defender. Vogel will figure out how to make Nunn into a defender. Vogel will figure out how to turn Mello into a defender. Yeah, Vogel will figure it out. These names, it's great. Vogel will figure out how to defend with Malik. He'll figure out how to defend with Malik Monk, Russell Westbrook and Wayne Ellington. That'll happen.

He'll be able to guard point guards with those guys. Look, like Wayne Ellington can play next to LeBron, right? Like in the way that he can be stretchy, but he has to be flanked by quality defenders like Malik Monk ain't that. You know, THT ain't that. Like these guys, like the Caruso thing is just, I think I'm going to be saying this from every podcast

from now till kingdom come. It was unconscionable. You should just announce it at the top of every podcast you do. The Lakers are complete idiots. My name is Woz. Here's my Caruso rant. And then let's start the podcast. It just makes no sense.

And like, he would be obviously so important to what they're doing right now. Right. To play him next to an Ellington, to play him next to a monk as a balance they're doing right now, right? To play him next to an Ellington, to play him next to a Monk as a balance on the perimeter. Right now at the point of attack, they are just getting smoked every single time. There's no sign of that getting better.

And it'll come down to just LeBron and AD bully-balling everybody. I've been talking about how I think AD has put on too much muscle, in my opinion. That he has actually turned himself into an actual center, which I'm not sure is my favorite version of AD. I know he's putting up the stats. But I like the 2018 moving up and down the court, like KG and Duncan in their primes kind of thing. I didn't want him to put on all the extra weight.

And to me, he looks like a guy who's going to have trouble carrying it too because he gets all these little dings, these little minor injuries, stuff like that. So you're just adding weight to a guy who's had a lot of dumb injuries to begin with. What do you see from Davis? I think that's a problem, but mostly the problem is that his shot distribution is atrocious.

He's taking 70% of the shots that he takes from mid range and three point land. And he's shooting 32% on those shots. Like that's not going to cut it into me. All that means that's a guy who's sharing the floor with Dwight Howard, Russell Westbrook, and DeAndre Jordan for significant chunks of the game. I.e., the paint is clogged. Theoretically, he's a guy who stretches, so that's what he's doing, except his stroke just isn't there. He's just not making jump shots. And this is going back to last season.

The bubble was obviously an aberration because he made his threes. He made his mid ranges in the bubble last season. And this season, those jump shots aren't falling, which would be fine if he was playing most of his minutes at the five and not playing them at the four. And then, you know, again, your point guard is a guy who cannot shoot. Like, it's not just that Dwight and DeAndre aren't spacers. They're not even 12-footer guys. They're not 8-footer guys. They're just straight up three feet.

DeAndre's six feet under because he died three years ago. I can't. Did they not have scouts? Brooklyn wouldn't play him for an entire playoffs when they didn't have a center. Like, and you're like, we should get DeAndre. He'll help us.

I don't get it. Waz, don't be surprised if after next year when LeBron's Lakers contract is over, he finishes his career in Cleveland. I'm ready for it. I can't wait.

I'm going to be texting you the moment it happens. Last thing. I have a league pass crush. It's a team that plays in Minnesota. They're kind of a train wreck at times. They employ

D'Angelo Russell, who I think would be the single least fun person to play basketball with. I feel bad for his teammates constantly. Sometimes he's good. But I'm fascinated by Anthony Edwards. Me too. I think,

and I don't think I've talked about him on a pod yet. There's something going on with him athletically that is really different. And I don't want to throw out the Giannis LeBron kind of names, but I'm going to do it anyway. And I don't care to throw out the Giannis LeBron kind of names, but I'm going to do it anyway. And I don't care. There's an athletic swagger to him that is really unusual. And the best swagger is, I was talking about it with somebody today.

It's like watching in college when the football players come to play with the actual basketball team. And there's the one guy on the football team who's just such a great athlete. He can just walk right in and he's better than everybody on the basketball team, and there's the one guy on the football team who's just such a great athlete, he can just walk right in and he's better than everybody on the basketball team. It's like, man, imagine if this guy played basketball.

He'd be amazing. That's kind of what Anthony Edwards actually is because he was a football player until he was like 13. What he's doing as a power two guard, I don't even know who to compare him to because it's almost like watching if Bo Jackson was a two guard. He's so strong.

He's so fast. He has really no idea what he's doing at. He's 20. He turned 20 in August, but the physical gifts, it now makes sense to me why so many of these teams were so fascinated by him as the number one pick or like, like, like why you kind of had to take the chance.

To be honest, I'm delighted by it. He reminds me of a young Kobe athletically. He doesn't have the feel and IQ that Kobe had like automatically where he was such a great playmaker. Like basically from the Pacers series he final series like Kobe was a great freaking you know playmaker from this from the start at like 21 right he was the the Lakers their point guard was Derek Fisher in name only the primary

playmaker was Kobe like Anthony Edwards doesn't have that. However, nobody can stay in front of him. Yeah. And when he gets to the club, he's explosive. And that's what reminds me of a young Kobe. He's shifty. He's explosive. And he's big.

Like, Kobe was, Kobe got drafted at like 6'6", and then he grew to be like 6'7", or something crazy like that. So, like, he's big, he's nimble, and he's explosive. So, in a lot of ways, he reminds me of Kobe. And his shot looks way better than I thought it would this early in his career. I think his percentage is low because he's always taking really hard shots. Like, he's always taking off the dribble, step back, plant, and, you know, firing type of shots.

But he reminds me of a young Kobe. People don't remember pre-knee injury Kobe, right? Like he got... Well, that 99, 2000, 2001. Right. He got the knee injury and then by like 04, 05, he was a little bit more ground bound. But before that, he was lightning quick

and he was dunking on people's heads. And that's what Anthony Edwards reminds me of. He reminds me of a young Cole. Definitely the explosiveness. I'm with you. I think the difference between them is he's got to be 20 pounds thicker than Kobe was already. And that's the part that's unusual to me

because usually when these young athletes come into the league, like a 20-year-old, they're not fully formed, grown men yet, right? Like look at somebody like Evan Mobley, we know five years from now he's going to have 25 extra pounds of muscle and the whole thing. And we know how it's going to go. I don't know what Edwards is going to look like in five years. I don't, cause you figure just, he's going to get older. You add weight as you get older.

Um, it's, it's almost a little Zion-y. When he bounces off dudes, he wins the bounce. Yes. Like he'll go, he could go into, it could be DeAndre Ayton, it could be whoever,

and he goes into those guys, he's not going backwards after he bounces into the guys. And I don't know, I just think, I see it with the other teams, like they're really scared of him. They can't stay in front of him. He has the ball, and they're all like, everybody's like,

uh-oh, he's got the ball, he's got the ball. And I don't think even he realizes yet. Minnesota doesn't realize it. They don't even run pick and rolls with him. I don't know why they don't pick and roll him in towns all the time. Well, because they have their point guard that matters. I got this. I got this. I got this.

Look, I guess. Look, but my thing about Anthony Edwards that also matters is, you know, another guy with freakish athleticism that often comes up in these conversations is Wiggins, right? But he never had the Anthony Edwards mentality. Like, this dude is a freaking pit bull. This dude wants to rip your freaking head off every single play.

He has a motor. His temperament. I love his temperament. Even when he's having a bad night, he's ready to go next possession. He's not worried about it. He's not in his head about it. And he's like the sort of emotional leader of the team. Because he's the coolest fucking guy in the team. He cares himself like he's like the sort of emotional leader of the team. Yeah. Because he's the coolest fucking guy on the team.

He cares himself like he's 30. And it's already gotten to the point, like his post-game press conferences are great. He's had some really good quotes. But the stuff he says, it's just clear at every point of his life, he's been the best athlete in whatever was happening like if he was on the

playground like climbing the bars he was the best at that and just oh we're playing kickball oh I'm the best at this and somehow he has pulled that over to basketball and he's playing in these games with the best players in the world and you really you think that he thinks

he's the best player in the game and it could be like oh Luka's on the other side I'm still the best guy in the world and you really, you think that he thinks he's the best player in the game. And it could be like, oh, Luka's on the other side. I'm still the best guy. Yeah, nobody can guard me. That's his attitude. I love it. And he's generally right.

And, you know, last year there was a game where I forget who Carl Anthony Towns got into a tussle with. It was like a, you know, a brouhaha. And they asked Anthony Edwards after the game.

And he's like, that was nothing. That was just a little tussle. That's nothing. Y anthony edwards after the game he's like that was nothing that's nothing yeah that was something that's nothing they gotta do that that's right i just love that and especially next to a guy like towns who let's face it hasn't exactly been some type of leader he's not a leader of men that hasn't been it's tough that he plays you know jimmy butler ate his freaking lunch for that very reason right and the role that he plays. Jimmy Butler ate his freaking lunch for that very reason, right? And the fact that Anthony Edwards is like,

no, I'm going to step up and be the ying to this guy's yang is beautiful to see. And I do share your enthusiasm for this team because I love watching Edwards and Towns work in pick and roll because again... But they never read it. That's sagging to the middle shit. You can't do that with Carl Anthony Towns' jump shot.

You have to actually commit to coming up on Edwards. And once you do that, he's going to put the jets on and go by you. It's a dangerous-ass play. I don't know why they're not running it more. They have to get rid of Russell. They have to get him off the team. All due respect to him. They need him off the team.

Because all I care about, if I'm a Minnesota fan, if I run Minnesota, if I'm coaching Minnesota, if I own Minnesota, I just care about Towns and Edwards. And that's it. Nobody, and I like Vanderbilt too.

I like a couple of their role guys, but ultimately it's those two guys. And anybody who interferes with that in any way, they'll have these games where Russell's like, I got this. I'm going to do my James Harden impersonation. I would just be, I just want Edwards to get the reps.

They're not going to win the title this year. Get the reps, find out if Edwards and Towns can play together. And as you said, Towns is not a leader. He's a beta. That's fine. And maybe Edwards is like the perfect guy for him. Maybe this

is like the perfect personality combo. You have one guy who, you know, he's a nice guy. You have another guy who, in every game, thinks he's the best athlete in the world. That's a nice combo. I like it. That's a good start. But they need to fix the other stuff.

And yeah, and it should be said, we should talk about Vanderbilt and McDaniels, what like the energy these guys play with. Nas Reed. The way they fly around on the court

is cool to watch. And it's like, Minnesota has something, right? I don't think they've harnessed all of the gifts that are collectively on the roster. I don't think they're playing to the talent level that they possess yet, but they got something, man. They're one of those teams that like, I could see them in a series if they sneak into the eight

seed against anybody in these possession by possession games, like winning one-on-one matchups in games and giving a team a run for their money, just giving their talent level. They got talent. I think they're going to become a thing. I think it's going to become a basketball, internet, Twitter type of thing. But I think Edwards is so kind of captivating to watch.

In all of their games, every game they're in is entertaining. Like I always enjoy, for whatever reason, they're just a good matchup with whoever they play. The games are always fun. The Philly game on Saturday night was one of the most fun games

I've watched all year. And I think Edwards is going to become a thing. Now, how he handles that will be interesting. Sure. I think it'll bounce right off him because I think

his attitude would be, of course I'm a thing. I'm the best player in the league. Yeah, I know. I'm glad you guys have finally figured it out. Yeah. I know. Yeah. You're telling me I'm great. No kidding'm the best part of the league. Yeah, I know. I'm glad you guys have finally figured it out. Yeah, I know. Yeah, you're telling me I'm great.

No kidding. I've been here the whole time. I've been this. And you know another cool thing, Bill, when you watch their home games, the crowd, every time he does anything, is like, they're waiting for something incredible to happen every time, whether it's a crazy step back or he's barreling to the rim. The crowd is so captivated by what this dude is doing with the rock. It's,

it's impressive, man. You know, who was like this actually going way back was young Sprewell, pre choking PJ Sprewell, the guy who made first team all NBA when he was like 23, but it was same kind of thing. And he, and he wasn't as good of a outside shooter as edwards was but just like incredibly athletic and really hard to guard over and over again scotty pippen's head oh man in an nba all-star game i was just like whoa what the hell is this like you never really got golden state warriors games in um in new york like obviously every sunday we had to watch the bulls play um Um, so, you know, you were just like,

hold on, Scotty, you know, this guy's one of the best ever. What the, what the hell is free? Well, just don't on his head and yelled at him.

I was just like, yo, who is this? Right. Um, all right. That's good. We did a good job.

It is now past 10 o'clock on Tuesday night. We're going to wrap up. Was we can hear you on Ringer NBA show tomorrow. Ringer NBA show tomorrow. Group chat with Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney. Of course, Full Court Fits comes out every single Friday afternoon on YouTube this week. Last week, I had Wind Horse on to talk about the Kobe drought. You guys should check that out.

NBA players are obsessed with Kobe sneakers. There's a drought because there's been an impasse between Kobe's family and Nike or whatever. Super interesting. Fascinating story. Yeah, that was good. And this week we got Sarah Kustak of the Brooklyn Nets. She's their color commentary person.

She's one of the best in the whole biz. Obviously super plugged in about the Nets. So check that out on Friday. I have a guest suggestion for you. I think you should have Ben Simmons, but it's my Ben Simmons, my son. Let's do it. Let's line him up.

But we load it. We promote it like this. It's like Ben Simmons. And it's just my idiot son talking about shoes for three minutes. Ben Simmons is doing press. What's happening? Oh no. It's the 14 year old kid in LA. Um, good to see you. Thanks for coming up. All right. All right. Van Lathan is here. We're taping this part of the podcast earlier.

It's 10 30 in the morning Pacific time. So if seven more college football coaches jump schools, don't blame us. Van, your team has a coach. Yes. You stole the Notre Dame coach. How much money was it? 95 million?

$95 million, Bill. We're in the building at LSU. Very excited about this, man. Very excited about this. So for the people who don't know, and I don't know why you wouldn't know, Van from Louisiana. Diehard LSU fan.

Diehard. Lives and dies. This is his favorite team. Yes. They affect his mood in the fall. Even as he's doing all the other stuff he's doing, including hosting two podcasts for us. So this year it all falls apart. Your coach, who you won a title with, goes off the rails. There's stories

about him and women, which are really weird if you watch it with the sidelines. And it goes sideways. He gets fired. You were psyched about it. And then all the names start. So who did you think you were going to get versus how this played out so this is something i'd like to say first of all before we even do this i'd like to say i am really really thankful to coach ogeron for the run that he had at lsu very thankful you know we always talked about the fact that coach ogeron was uh was one of us yep it turned out that he was a little too much one of us. Okay. He liked to party.

He liked to get down. He was doing his thing. Maybe a little too much. But what happened in 2019, there is no LSU fan that will ever forget the most dominant run in college football history that that team had. So I want to give Coach Ogeron his props

before we move on to talk about the new guy. I had no clue so when the when the decision was made to move on from him and that was done mid-season when the decision was made to move on from him I think was the Sunday after the big Florida win um I I guess the question was with our AD Scott Woodward having the reputation that he has. He's the guy that hired Jimbo Fisher to Texas A&M. He hired Kim Mulkey from Baylor over to LSU. He also hired Jay Johnson over to LSU, our baseball coach. He had had he hired Chris Peterson to Washington.

He had had a he's a big game hunter is what they call him. Jimbo was the talk at first. Then the talk became Lincoln Riley. Then there was pie in the sky crazy talk like Davo Sweeney, Mike Tomlin. All of these names were being thrown around. And, of course, the heavy speculation ended up being Lincoln Riley. At one point, I think me, like every other LSU fan, thought that it was a done deal that Lincoln Riley was coming to LSU that ended up not being the case I say all this to say Brian Kelly was

almost not talked about at all it's a very solid hire uh a very what LSU wants to do now is they want to be they don't want to have down years. This is a down year for Alabama right now, right? Alabama's team is weak, weaker than it normally is. They're like 11-1, 10-1. They're still going to play for the SEC championship. You want your down years to still be exceptional, and that's what people down on the bayou expect. So what you want is a coach that can consistently, methodically,

year in and year out have you as a contender. And if you look at Brian Kelly's resume, he's done that. He hasn't been able to get over the hump with Notre Dame, but he's had them there every single year. So I'm happy with the hire. I was shocked that he left because it, I guess I have no context of what are the best jobs in college football.

So let's talk it out right now. If we're doing a fantasy draft, I would assume Alabama is the best job. Well, now, of course, it's the best job. Like, if we're doing NBA coaches, the Lakers coach

is the best coaching job, right? Right. You know the team's going to spend a shitload of money. You know you're always going to have at least one star no matter what generation it is. And you're in one

of the biggest markets with one of the best, longest fan bases so i would say alabama would be one so we can talk about that though so alabama was uh is now the best job in college football but really saban made it that way and i say that because prior to that alabama was down they had won a national championship i think in like 91 but after that they had found a lot of trouble being able to compete year in and year out we used to kick alabama's ass right until until saban got there so they're yeah miami kind of took their corner for a couple years it seemed like

yeah it was at least in the south so and in the past if you were talking about the best jobs in college football you'd certainly put miami up there right so if you were talking about the best jobs in college football, you'd certainly put Miami up there, right? So if you're talking about the best jobs currently now, it's going to have to do with where the teams are sitting, where they're positioned, and how much a culture of winning that they've had to adapt to. So Saban's made Alabama one of the best jobs. It wasn't before.

I would say Dabo Sweeney has made Clemson one of the best jobs. The Clemson one feels, best jobs. The LSU job... But that... The Clemson one feels... That feels Dabo dependent to me. Well, then you could make the same argument that Alabama was Saban dependent. Alabama has an amazing college football history. Yeah, I think the history of it...

I mean, fuck Alabama's in Forrest Gump. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Alabama... Alabama had Joe Davis. I mean, that's what we call Alabama. We call them the Gump. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Alabama, they are. Alabama had Joe Davis. I mean, that's what we call Alabama. We call them the Gumps. Forrest Gump. Yeah, we call them the Gumps.

No, but I see your point. But when we're talking about jobs, if we're talking about historically, then obviously Notre Dame is going to be up there. But if we're talking about right now, let's just say right now, what are the best jobs so we can stop John over it? Yeah.

And right now, I would say the best jobs are LSU. I certainly think that LSU is one of the best jobs in the country. And it's going to be one of the best jobs in the country for the foreseeable future because of the way the recruiting is. Yeah. LSU, Alabama. Notre Dame has to be on there, which is what makes this so interesting. They'd at least be in the top five or six. Notre Dame would be on there.

I'd say, even though a lot of people around SEC circles don't agree with me, I'd say Florida is an amazing job, which they have Billy Napier going over to Florida right now. I think Florida is an amazing job. Well, you know you have Florida. You're getting this incredible recruiting advantage just from the state

that you know you're inherently inheriting. Yeah, right. And of the three Florida schools right now, Florida is the one that's having the most recent success, so it should be able to recruit pretty well within the state. Georgia

is an incredible job, an incredible place to coach. Then I'd say... What about Ohio State? Because you get everyone from Ohio to Ohio State, right? They have to be in that circle. Of course Ohio State's one of the best jobs in the country. You have people there that are committed to winning.

To that degree, Michigan too. What you want out of a college football job, in my opinion, is you want the culture, you want out of a college football job, in my opinion, is you want the culture, you want the fan base, you want the recruiting soil, and then you want the facilities.

I would say you want the expectations too. You need a little pressure. Like in Michigan, Harbaugh, I know a lot of Michigan people, Harbaugh finally being able to beat OSU like if he loses that game then it's like alright this is six years of this fuck this guy

where they're just you have a lot of generations of people some of them have money influence and at some point they just want to root for a team that wins well the expectations are a part of the culture so when I say the culture you know if you go to a place like UCLA

where Chip Kelly's coaching right now, you have a lot more leeway, but those fans don't expect to win. They're hoping to win. They don't expect to win. They're happy to be there if it's like an 8-3 team. They're like, oh my God, we're good this year. Right. So the culture, the expectations

are a part of the culture. You're just not going to be able to like Harbaugh had to beat Ohio State this year or his seat was going to be pretty hot. And he had what other coaches would consider to be a successful run at Michigan. He's won a lot of games there. But if he didn't start beating the big rival and having to play for playoffs what college football is going to be in three years. Already the conferences are so confusing. I don't think they should just change all the names for them. The SEC should be called the We Have the Most Money Conference. Why even call it the

SEC? Isn't Oklahoma going in there? And Texas. Which is another reason why Lincoln Riley chickened out. Oh, Texas is another job we should have mentioned. Texas is another job, one of the best jobs in college football. So you think Lincoln Riley chickened out? Of course.

Yeah, he wanted no parts of the SEC. Oklahoma's on its way to the SEC. He'd have had to coach in the SEC if he came to LSU. He goes out to SC, which, by the way, I'm never had to coach in the SEC if he came to LSU. He goes out to SC, which, by the way, I'm never going to begrudge a man for wanting to live in Los Angeles, a city that I consider to be the greatest city

in the world besides Baton Rouge, Louisiana. To live in. So I'm not going to begrudge him that at all. And he has the opportunity to do some things that SC has the support of an incredible fan base and a nationwide brand. So I'm not saying that going to SC is whatever, but we know he was not in favor of OU moving into the SEC. And obviously he wasn't going to come to LSU where the expectations are just different.

SEC football is, it's not a Saturday thing. I wish I knew how to describe it. Everyone describes it oh it's just different. But no, but it really is though. Like when you look at things football in the southern part of America sped up

integration. You know what I mean? It's like it's a different societal standard and not everybody wants to be a part of that. He wants to go coach some integration. You know what I mean? There's a different societal standard and not everybody wants to be a part of that. He wants to go coach some ball, so good to him, but he was definitely scared of the SEC smoke for sure.

USC, I can't get a feel for because they've had a couple runs, obviously. Their most famous player is OJ. Their most famous team was just completely in disgrace with some of the scandals they had.

Those mid-2000s USC teams, which I was living here at the time. That was a thing because the Lakers sucked. They kind of had the alpha dog status in LA,

which is crazy, but it's true. For a couple years, USC was the most important team here. Kobe was going 40 and 42 every year and USC was all anyone talked about and the Kobe was going 40-42 every year.

And USC was all anyone talked about. And the UCLA fans were so mad. I'm sure you've enjoyed that too. The UCLA-USC thing is actually pretty enjoyable. There's real hatred. I didn't know that until I moved out here. The two fan bases really don't like each other. So now UCLA is doing better.

And then you have USC. They go get this kick-ass coach. Although I agree with you. It's a little suspicious that he fled. Yeah. He went running in the other direction. But still, it's better than any situation I've had in a while. For sure.

USC, during that time, it was very pretty football. Very pretty football. Mid-2000s, you mean? Mid-2000s, yeah. Yeah. Very, very pretty football. 2000s you mean mid 2000s yeah very very pretty football pretty boy football sudden fast glitzy glamour

hardware taken down so when you look back at the run you can make some arguments that the run is not really as successful as what people remember one championship they split with us another championship they won with us. Yeah. Another championship they won outright, and then they lost. To Vince Young, who's now a restaurant owner.

To Vince Young, who's doing his steakhouse thing now. He's killing it. But what you can't deny is it was amazing to watch. Like, absolutely amazing to watch. Like, absolutely amazing to watch Reggie and Lindell and Matt and Mike and all of those guys, Carson Palmer even a little bit before them. It was really, really fun football to

watch. But, you know, who knows if he can bring that back, if Lincoln Riley can bring that back, but he's definitely going to have a chance. They're going to bring in great quarterbacks, have a great offense. His teams have been criticized before for being soft, and that was a concern when he was coming to LSU because you cannot be soft in the SEC. But he's going to

have his pick of the litter if he builds a wall around the LA area. One of the great names, too. Lincoln Riley. That sounds like John Grissom. John Grissom, Matthew McConaughey plays Lincoln Riley. Yeah. He's trying to investigate. 38 years old.

38 years old. 38 years old. 38-year-old college football head coach, which means that if he can build a culture there and he doesn't bolt for the NFL, because that's always a thing with him too, that he looks longingly sometimes at the Cowboys job. But if he doesn't bolt for the NFL, he sticks around, that's a prolonged era of winning at SC

if he can get it done. A prolonged era of winning. Can I tell you who I was rooting for LSU to get? Just because we're friends, I had at least a slight interest. I don't like Alabama. I'm on the record as I think Saban's a coward. He should come back to the NFL.

I've made that point many times. Come back to the NFL, Saban. Come where the real coaches are. Deal with the Bill Belichicks. Instead of just kicking ass. You're guaranteed. You said it this year. His team's not even good.

He's going 10-1. Challenge yourself, Nick Saban. But I wanted Tomlin. I didn't say they weren't good. I didn't say they weren't good. I said they were. It's a down year. It's a down year, and they're like 10-1.

Right. I wanted Tomlin to go to LSU I thought it would've been fun To watch Tomlin coach A college team For like three years And it also would've gotten him Out of the NFL

But I thought Mike Tomlin college coach Would've been just amazing Because I love Mike Tomlin He's one of my favorites I was so fascinated with it Like How does Mike Tomlin recruit

Does Mike Tomlin Go into a living room and just look at the parents and go okay i will let you know something okay your son is going to lsu all right that was the thing it's like how does he not get whoever he wants he's got 99 of the guys yeah i'm telling you right now i'm telling you i'm in'm in here. I'm a leader of men. I'm an intense head football coach. Pack him up. Right now, as a matter of fact, I'm not even waiting until the fall. He's coming back on the plane with me right now.

All right? Don't want to have any more talk about it. Your son's going to LSU. But I was just so interested in how that was going to work. What were you interested in? He would have gotten every recruit he wanted. It would have been so much fun. It would have been like if Denzel was a coach.

Denzel's like, I've decided to become a college football coach. I'm just going to walk into people's living rooms and picking whatever players I want. Do you ever, but like Mike Tomlin does that weird thing to where he weirdly gets jazzed up about specific words in a sentence. You know, like he'll say a whole sentence regular. And then he'll be like, you know, we came out with a lot of defensive intensity. And then you'll be like, yo, what's up with this guy? You know what I mean? So I just wonder how that would work in college.

But if you can bring a pro system to college, you're going to have a lot of success, man. I mean, he has the Steelers team. It's still not out of the playoff race, and they're an atrocity. They're completely done on defense. They've had a ton of injuries. Roethlisberger can't do anything anymore.

They lost Schuster for the year. They should be one of the five worst teams in the league. And Tomlin could just scratch out. I think for college, that really would work. All right, so Brian Kelly. I know he's listening right now. I know he's a big fan. I don't, actually.

But let's say he's listening right now I know he's a big fan I don't actually But let's say he's listening Tell Brian Kelly about What he's walking into What it means The people of Louisiana Just give him a scouting report He calls you Brian Kelly just called you

He's like hey Van I heard you're the guy to ask Just tell me what I should expect Okay this is what you should expect you should expect love like you have never encountered before in your life you should expect a situation to where if you can win you will be maybe the most powerful man in the state. Wow. Who's the most powerful man in the state right now? Well, in 2019, you could say that it was maybe Ed Orgeron, right? Unfortunately, he also agreed.

He knew. He started acting like a maniac. Which is why he started getting it. When I say most powerful, I mean the guy who can make the most happen, the guy with the most sway. Our governor is a gentleman by the name of John Bel Edwards, and I'm sure he's a very, very nice guy, but nobody gives a fuck

what he says about anything. The head football coach at a winning LSU school, they care about what you say. Your word matters. Your influence matters. Your ability to change culture in Louisiana matters, right?

All of that comes with that job, but there's something of that comes with that job. But there's something else that comes with that job. People are hooking their lives onto you. There are people who have been paying attention to LSU football for generations that hand it down as a birthright to their children, who get fuzzy feelings in their stomachs at the sight of purple and gold,

at the sound of the fight song playing. I look at Mike the Tiger right now, and I remember looking at that when I was five and six years old, going there when my mom was there, right? And those people have their Saturday memories hanging on your decisions. They have the memories that they share with their children hanging on the decisions that they make. They have the entire pride and the feeling of their state hanging on decisions that you make. So just like you can be their best friend, you can be their worst enemy. And you need to know that these are the people that you need to

talk to. These are the hearts and minds that you need to win. We care and we've always cared. And the only thing that can make us stop caring is if you come here and shit the bed. If you come here and shit the bed, we'll stop caring about you. We'll figure out some other way to cope, which is probably eating and alcohol, and then we'll run your ass right out of time. But he has an opportunity to win, to set a legacy, to set rhythms and expectations in the state that rival any other place in America where college football exists. And if he's ready for that challenge, which I think that he is, didn't even give Notre Dame the chance to match,

come on down and eat some of this gumbo, man. It's going to be a fun ride. I think you could have gone Duke and Rocky IV there and done the, when Coach O died and Drew Brees and the Benson family and Zion's career. Now you're the one. You're the one who can make our pain. You're the one.

Drew's going, and look, man, all of those guys, like Drew. It's a great run. It's a great run. He had a nice little one year Zion run where it seemed like he was going to be the best player in the league.

Now, now you never bought in. No, Zion didn't give a fuck, man. Does this make this easier for the Pelicans to go to Seattle now or Vegas?

I don't know, man. Like, the Pelicans, yeah, like, who cares? I mean, I'm sure there's some people down there in New Orleans. Remember, I'm not from New Orleans.

I'm from Baton Rouge. No, I know, but it's Louisiana. Louisiana proper. Don't give a fuck about the Pelicans. Weird mascot. Cool to have an NBA team. No, I know, but it's Louisiana. Louisiana proper. Don't give a fuck about the Pelicans. Weird mascot. Cool to have an NBA team, but I didn't have one growing up and I really don't care about the one down there now.

What is Brian Kelly's best move that's hidden under the radar? You're his Louisiana conciliary. One of the first things he could do that could make the actual people who live there go, oh, this guy gets it.

Embrace the culture. I actually wrote something for them. I'm sending it over to the people at LSU right now. Embrace the culture. So the biggest knock on Brian Kelly is we have a very distinct, one-of-a-kind culture in South Louisiana, something you can't find anywhere else in the world.

And there's always trepidation about whether or not people are going to get it right and the thing about brian kelly is we know he doesn't get it we can look at him and tell we can look we can look at brian kelly right now and tell that his food is bland. He looks like a whole bland food motherfucker, doesn't he? You can look at him and tell right now, right? But if he comes down there and he embraces the fact that he doesn't really know our rhythms and our beats, then he'll do something that's really awesome. When you come down to New Orleans, you come down to South Louisiana, when you come down to Baton Rouge, New Orleans, if you don't act like you know everything, you'll give the culture there

an opportunity to teach you. And they love that. They love telling you where the good gumbo at. They love watching you try the jambalaya. They love listening to you try the speech because it's something that we inherently want to share. So when he comes down, be open. Don't be closed off. Don't be open. Don't be closed off. Don't be scared. Don't be scared of the spice. Embrace the spice. Taste the gumbo and it'll be good for you.

He just has to come down and say, I want to learn from you guys. I want to learn from you guys. I want to learn. I want to be one of you. And then we'll make him one of us as long as he wins. Okay. You go out there, you lose to Auburn, you lose to Florida, you lose to... You can't handle gumbo. I haven't been to Louisiana

in seven years, which is seven years too long. The gumbo jambalaya, they're in my top eight, maybe even top seven, for going to a city and wanting to sample

the delicacies of that city. I don't know which one I like more, but I think I have gumbo as a slight like minus 125 favorite over the jambalaya. But I love both. Because I can't get, you can't gumbo,

you can't get gumbo really anywhere. Like if you see it on a menu, if you're at a restaurant and they're like, our special today is gumbo. you'd be like, what? It feels like just this very region-specific food that is just... If House was here right now, he

would be like, drool would be coming out of his mouth. You just can't get it anywhere else. So my mom comes out. When my mom comes out, she makes gumbo, but the gumbo that she makes, my mother makes the best gumbo in the world, and I'm not just saying that. I swear to God. I believe you. My mother makes the best gumbo in the world. And I'm not just saying that. I swear to God.

I believe you. My mom makes the best meat sauce in the world. Yeah, so I'm not just saying that. She makes the best gumbo in the world. But when she makes it here, it's not as good. Because even to... Even to... And she knows this.

We talk about this. You can't even get what you need in LA to make the right gumbo. You can't even get the stuff that you need. So if you're not where you're supposed to be, it's just not going to be like it is. Like it should be. Chang says that about LA. There's certain things that LA offers

like certain vegetable fruit situations that's just so superior to anywhere else. And it's like if you want certain ingredients, LA is the place before we go we have Kenny G coming on after you tell your Kenny G Thanksgiving story so we had a trumpet player

I'm not going to say his name he's going to know who he is when I say this story we had a trumpet player that was at our house one time for Thanksgiving some years ago this guy who went to high school with me and is one of the best trumpet players down there in Louisiana. He became a very

very prominent musician. So we're all talking and they're talking about jazz and stuff like that. Then I make a Kenny G joke. I say something about Kenny G. And this guy, the trumpet player, goes well people joke about

those guys but kenny g is a fantastic musician in his own right you know people make jokes about kenny g or other guys who play other jazz instruments like wayman tisdale or yeah whoever those guys are that you hear on the smooth channel whatever the channel is it's always a smooth jazz smooth jazz they make jokes about these guys, but these guys are competitive musically with the other jazz greats in their own right. My uncle

lost his fucking mind. When I say he lost his mind, he was like, young man, I don't even know you. But if you're about to tell me that some goddamn Kenny G can stand up next to Coltrane or Davis or Louis Armstrong

or any of these people, you need to get your young ass up out of the house. My homie looks back at me and goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, why are you talking to me like this? And my dad is like, everybody calm down.

And I'm like, no, don't calm down. You guys, please express all of the feelings that you have in the loudest way. And then he actually said that as far as musicianship, Kenny G is just as good as any of those guys. He just doesn't play the same style of jazz. And it was a civil war. Wow. Well, that's why we did this doc. One of the most polarizing musicians and yet one of the most successful musicians and he totally gets the conversation. He's very aware of it which is what makes him so interesting. Alright, Van, we can hear you on

Higher Learning. We can hear you in the Ringerverse. Any good Marvel movies coming? What do we got? We got the Hawkeye right now which is We can hear in the ringer verse. Yes. Any good Marvel movies coming? What do we got? Ooh. Yeah, we got, we got, we got the Hawkeye right now,

which is a Marvel, a Disney plus show that's on right now. We're covering that on, on the ringer verse. And then in a couple of weeks, man, Spider-Man, no way home.

Oh yeah. One of the biggest, probably not one of the biggest, the biggest Marvel moment since end game. So you guys, please, if you're at all, keep up with us.

Pew pew. Hawkeye, what is B minus? B? No, A. Hawkeye's an A. A? Yeah, Hawkeye's an A. Is Renner back? Are we having a Renner? Is there a Renner-sance? A Renner-sance. Yeah, Renner's doing his thing. Hawkeye's an A. Hawkeye's definitely an A. We're loving Hawkeye.

Alright, good to see you, Van Lathan. Congrats on your coach. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. BK, let's get it. All right. One of the most interesting men in the world, Kenny G, is here.

We are doing a documentary about him that premieres on HBO and HBO Max on Thursday night. It is called Listening to Kenny G. Very proud of it. Directed by Penny Lane. I contacted you last year. I didn't think there was any chance

you'd want to be involved, but I was hoping and laid out a possible idea. And you said, eh, fuck it. I'll meet the director. Sounds interesting. You're ready to go. What made you want to do this? Well, I actually just read the text that you sent me,

the long text with Penny's pitch. So I read the pitch just now. And so it's been like a couple of years, a year and a half ago. And I read it and remember how I liked what she said. I just love the way that she put it. She talked about how there's going to be some people that are just really mad and angry that I'm so successful. And let's talk about that. So I thought it's very interesting that somebody really realizes that this is kind of absurd, but yet it exists. And so let's look at it. It was one of the best pitches I've ever got. And she laid it out perfectly. You've had one of the most successful careers of any musician of the last 40

years. At some point you became a little polarizing, but you kind of embraced it the whole time. You, you understood it. You understood the machinations behind it. Yeah. And it kind of became as in the second half of your career, just part of the part of your career. And that was it. And you always, I always thought initially, I always thought it should be called Kenny G has the last laugh or Kenny has the last laugh. And that we talked about that as a title. I think listening to Kenny G is better, but, um, but it was, you've, you've always understood. And yeah, I mean, you've done as well as just about anybody, I think, but how did you have such a sense of humor about some of this stuff? Well, you know, I've been hearing it since the 80s and it hasn't really affected me at all in

the sense that I know what goes into my music. I know how much I practice. I know what kind of a musician I am. And so when somebody like Miles Davis comes up to me and tells me he likes what I'm doing and the way I'm playing, when I read an article about some jazz critic that's telling me that I'm harmful for something, I go, well, maybe you should ask Miles what he thinks. And so I don't really put a lot of credibility in what they're saying, other than the fact that they have every right to say it. And it makes interesting reading. And of course, if you're from that perspective,

you're going to have that opinion. So it didn't surprise me. It's just that, you know, you see guys like Miles Davis or other jazz musicians that say, you know, we don't want to just keep recreating the past. We want to come up with something new. So I'm playing a whole different style of instrumental music. They just don't seem to like that style. But I'm doing- But a lot of people did. But a lot of people do. And I like it. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it.

I wasn't doing it because I was some genius that knew that if I did it this way, people would just love this music and I'd be really successful. There was no home for my music when I created it in the 80s. There was no, radio wasn't playing instrumentals unless it was either real, like traditional jazz.

And that was pretty much it. And so I had no home. So why would I do it if it wasn't heartfelt? Well, one of the cool things about the film is it really goes into how obsessive you are about your music. Which I don't think you get credit for, right? Especially with saxophone players or trumpet players or anybody where we just see somebody playing an instrument and we just think, Oh, they just go out there and they just play an instrument. And meanwhile,

you're like painstakingly figuring out every piece of every song and you're like slaving over like the afterwards when you're the recording and putting stuff in after the fact. And that was the part that I didn't know because I didn't know that much about like what your process was. But I thought it was cool to just see like somebody, especially after all the success you've had,

who really still gives a shit about how you're doing stuff, you know? Yeah, I just hope when people see it, they don't think that somehow I'm making everything really sterile and not emotional. That It's just the opposite. Even though I'm painfully fixing a note here or fixing a note there, it's because there's a certain emotion I want the song to have. And if I just fix a little vibrato on one note, that to me makes this whole

beautiful message happen perfectly. And it's not like it's sterile. So yeah, I feel like I'm like a director that's in the editing room and it's painful. I know Penny had a lot of pain trying to figure out what scenes to keep in and how to edit. And there's lots of possibilities. And I listen to my music so much. I go A, B, or C.

Hmm, hmm. Three days later, I'm going, Hmm, I still can't figure it out. And finally, somehow it hits me and I get to move on. But that's why it takes six years to make this particular record. I think one of the things,

you were such a comet there for six, seven years. And this happens in music. It happens in sports. It happens with authors. Pick anything where people have real success. And at some point, people are like, alright, enough, fuck this guy. At some point in the mid-90s, there are radio stations that you've basically spawned, which

I had kind of forgotten, and then in the documentary, it's laid out, like this whole smooth jazz. This is because of you. And then in the documentary, it's laid out like this whole smooth jazz. This is because of you. And now all these people, it's this whole format. And at some point, there becomes this resentment that comes in. And part of it is just, I think where fans are like, all right, I get it. All right, this guy's had another giant album. But then there's also the other musicians who are like, why was it this guy and not me? When were you aware of that? The little bit of also the other musicians who are like, why was it this guy and not me? When did you, when were you aware of that, that a little bit of resentment from other musicians? Yeah, I've always kind of known that, you know, it's just, it's just kind of the way it is. I remember doing an article for Downbeat magazine, very prestigious jazz magazine. They said, look,

we want to put you on the cover. And they do this interview with me and I'm thinking, wow, this is super cool. So when the article comes out, it's, I am on the cover, And they do this interview with me and I'm thinking, wow, this is super cool. So when the article comes out, I am on the cover, but the whole article is other musicians talking about me and why I'm bad at this or I don't deserve that. I went, whoa, I didn't know that was your angle. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of learned the hard way. Yeah, I saw that. And it's just, when I read the comments, it's just, listen, everybody has jealousy in them. And I just think, look, the whole thing is open for anybody. Like play your sax the way you want to. And if that works out, great.

That's what I'm doing. I'm not a genius. Like I said, I didn't know that this was going to happen this way. But if you would want to have the success I'm having, just figure out how to do it. I'm not worried about your own stuff. Yeah. I'm not getting in anyone's way. I never thought that I was taking anything away from anybody. And I think that's some, one of the comments that some of these critics make is

somehow I'm taking away from what other musicians might have, but there's, there's plenty, just, just do your thing. And it do your thing and it's all up to you. I don't want to go too much into this because this is what the documentary is about. So we spent five minutes on this. I want to go into the stuff the documentary couldn't really get into because we had less than two hours. One of the things, I'm so fascinated by your celebrity golf career. Oh, wow. And we were trying to figure out how do we shoehorn this? And it just didn't make sense because the way we did this film, it's about a specific thing.

And Penny's so brilliant as a director. And it's like, if we start shoehorning in these other things that I think all of us think are interesting about you, all of a sudden, I always call it like a documentary is like a highway and you can get off at an exit to get gas, but you can't get off on the exit to go 20 minutes to a Starbucks. Now your trip's screwed up, right? And with a documentary, you can get off quickly on the exit, but you can't go too far. So, all right, first the celebrity golf stuff. Are you the best celebrity golfer? Who's better than you? I mean, you're a little older now, but was there a point where you were the best? You were the goat of celebrity golfers? Who were you competing? It was like you and Jack Wagner. Who was it? Yeah, pretty much. That's exactly what it was years ago. I'd say that he's probably a better golfer than me, but that doesn't

mean I couldn't beat him on a given day. And we've played, actually played three rounds together. He's won two and I've won one. So back in that day, I think it was, I was up there. One of the top couple of golfers now today. No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm older and my hands are older now. I haven't kept it up as much as I, as I would like to, but it takes a long time. So you and Jack are like the bird and magic of celebrity golf for like five years. Who else is in there? Who's in the mix when you're at your peak? Let's see, who else was in there?

Vince Gill was in there. Very good golfer. Vince Gill! Vince Gill is a very good golfer. Wow, okay. I mean, he was. I think he probably still is. I don't know who else.

Any athletes? Because now it's like people say how good Steph Curry is. I don't know if you played with him. I haven't, I'm sure he's good. There's always been athletes that have been great. Marty Fish is a great, great golfer. Oh my gosh. Is he good? He's amazing. And then there's that guy Smoltz. Yeah. John Smoltz. He was a good one. Yeah. That guy can play. Um, yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of good, there's a lot of money. Are there money games with you back at your peak? There were money games. Yeah. I'm in fact, um, the biggest money game I ever played was with the putter maker, Scotty Cameron, you know, Scotty Cameron putters. And if you know golf, okay. That's the most famous putter. I mean, that's the one that Tiger Woods plays with.

And these putters are just the most famous putter. I mean, that's the one that Tiger Woods plays with. And these putters are just the most famous putters. So Scotty Cameron is an actual person. And those were the biggest money games I ever played. It scared the shit out of me. No Michael Jordan? No, I never played with Michael Jordan. I played in his golf tournament in the Bahamas once, but it was just in the tournament.

We weren't playing for money. Oh, I couldn't play for that money. That's too much. Oh, you get nervous? Yeah, for 50 grand, I'm nervous. Oh, I couldn't play for that money. That's too much. Oh, you get nervous? Yeah. For 50 grand, I'm nervous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50 grand a putt, stuff like that.

I'm nervous for like, you know, 50 bucks on something. I get nervous for that stuff. How did you get so good at golf? I always, because you're touring, you're like, all of a sudden you're a scratch handicap. Is that just, you were naturally good at it or did you play as a kid? I never understood that part. Well, I did play as a kid, but that's not necessarily a benefit because you learn stuff when you're 10. And then when you're in your

20s and 30s, you realize, oh, wait, I've been doing it all wrong. So now that we have videos and we have these great golf teachers and we have YouTube and we have all this stuff at our fingertips and all this data about how the swing works because the pros will put on this gear stuff and then they can map out every move that they make. Okay. So I had to kind of relearn the physical part of it. But Bill, I'm a good student. So learning to play the sax is diligent practice, practice, practice. I figure, okay, I will do the same thing with golf. I will understand what I need to practice.

And I know it will take me a couple of years. And I'm going to practice every day at it for such and such amount of time. And I did that and I got a lot better. And I got really good. So it's basically the same kind of technical, obsessive after day over and over again trying to figure out the mechanics of something it's not much different than jess it's oh yes it's different it's harder it's way harder that's why steph curry i'm so interested to see what happens to him when he retires because you know he's the greatest shooter i think we've ever had in

basketball yeah and a lot of that is technique, practice, practice, like being obsessive about it. Yeah. And then golf is kind of, you know, same kind of hand-eye coordination where you just have to have, if you're going to be really great, it's something different. But then the obsessiveness, which I think he also has, there could be, he might be too tall. I think he's like six, three and a half. He's not too tall. I don't.

Yeah. It's like right on the fringe. Yeah. Because like Jordan's too tall. I think he's like six, three and a half. No, he's not too tall. I don't. Yeah. It's like right on the French. Yeah. Cause like Jordan's too tall. Once you get six, six and up. Yeah. There's too many ways a swing I think can unravel,

but Corey's probably right at the French. All right. So the golf we covered, um, the ladies we couldn't really get into. Like you, you had a pretty, a pretty good run there.

okay. Well, yeah. It seemed like you were in the mix. What did we miss in the documentary that we should have had in there? I love that there was really nothing about my personal relationships in there. I think that's great. I really that's great. I really love that part because I think people don't need to know all that stuff. They don't really need to know. And here's the thing, Bill, which is I think I have one of the greatest careers for this reason. People are attracted to me because of my sound and my music, not as me as a man and as like a, you know, like an iconic guy, you know, like, like an actor, you might go, oh my God, and they just can't get enough of this. They just want him

or her. They don't want me in the sense they, they just, uh, something about my music touches them and they just want to connect with me. You're a sensitive guy. Yeah. And, and so for me, it's always been great that nobody really cares that much about what goes on in my private life, which is just fine by me, which allows me to go to Whole Foods and go shopping. I get to do my laundry. I get to go to Home Depot and buy stuff. And I'm not attracting a huge crowd by doing it. It's pretty awesome. And you were, for somebody who was so famous, even though you're dating different people, but it was pretty on the down low. Like it was never...

No. You seemed like you avoided... You never dated like the Jennifer Aniston in year two of Friends. Like somebody who was like too famous where all of a sudden you're sucked into a tornado of like... Yeah.

This A-list celebrity relationship where now you're sucked into a tornado of like this A-list celebrity relationship or now you're getting followed everywhere you go. So you kind of, yeah, I thought you were strategic how you, how you handled it. Well, you know, I was married most of my life during my, my prime. So I really wasn't out there. You had that too. Yeah. I wasn't out there doing stuff. So it was, it was pretty easy for me to keep a low profile on that. And when did you get married? What year? I was married in 1992, 1992. Yeah. So you had like four or five years there. I sure did. Yeah, I sure did. Yeah. Well, but also the good thing about those years that we didn't have cell phones. Right. So, you know, well, who knows what I did during those years? Nobody knows. It's all, there's no phones.

There's no internet. It'll be way harder now. Like even Kim Kardashian and Pete Davidson, they go on like two dates and there's photos everywhere they're going. They can't even go to an amusement park. Yeah, you know, the thing that I really, here's what I don't like about our modern technology.

What I do like is what you see in the movie where, as you talked about earlier, I get to fine tune things and I have the ability to take a note and move it or fix this and that. That's fantastic with the technology. Here's what I don't like. I don't like the fact that if I'm playing a concert in Omaha, Nebraska, and let's say it's just whatever it is, guys are filming it or girls or whatever

and then it's out there and the public can hear how we, see, the mystery's gone. Like, why do you even need to come to my concert

if you can just go online and just see a whole bunch of live shows? You don't really need to see it. Comedy is like this too, right? Where you can, they're taping

and a lot of the comedians are like, put your phones away, you don't get to tape this. I'm still working out my material stuff. That's right. And if it's not worked out very well and somebody puts it out there,

somebody goes, oh, well, that guy's not so good or that guy's not so funny. But we don't have that chance to work it out like that anymore. Everything's public. And I don't like that part of it because I just always thought that when, if people wanted to like see me,

come to my concert. If you want to hear me play, you wanted to like see me come to my concert, do you want to hear me play? You got to come see me play. You can't get it any other way, but now you can get it all the, all other ways. And I don't like that. We hit your hair in the,

in the dock a little bit. Yeah. But the hair became a calling card for you. I'm going to say late eighties. And at some point, that was it. You just kept it. But as the hair is growing, at what point are you like,

I'm going with this. This is it. What year are we talking about here? We're talking about my junior year in high school. So I'm like 16, 17. And I've got the kind of hair that if it's short, it's still got a little curl that kind of goes out of control.

So it's like, I can't do anything with it. I'm going to grow it long and just see what happens. I didn't know what it would look like if it's longer. And it went through a really ugly stage where it was too long to be good short and too short to be good long. And then finally it got longer. And then the curls started

to just kind of find their own spot. And I'm like, oh, hey, this is a lot easier. Now I don't have to think about it. And so it's just been this way forever. I don't put a lot of time into my hair. It just is the way it is. And it's so great that I don't have to think about it. I already know, and I say this at my concerts, so this is not a dig, but I know that if I cut my hair, my career will go right down the toilet, just like Michael Bolton's. Well, yeah. And I say that at my show like that. Michael and I are friends, so he knows I say this joke, right? So I say that and the audience goes, oh no. And it's like, it's so funny because Michael and I are really good friends. And so I think that's a funny joke.

That's a good one. The music that, we didn't have Sirius back then. So I guess it's like a radio station when it becomes a format. Yeah. And you're caught up in that, but you're not profiting from that, right? All these radio stations, you're profiting in a way. Yeah. But they're basically, they're jumping on the Kenny G bandwagon with this format. Is it going, are you like honored?

Are you a little bit like, uh-oh, this could go in a weird direction. Is there's copycats? Like how are you thinking about this? Cause you're at like the peak of your powers and now there's other people kind of jumping on the, on the bandwagon for it. How are you thinking competitively? Cause you're a competitive guy. Oh, I'm honored all the way on. It's all part of a big team. You know, the more radio stations that are supporting my sound great, um, copycats are never worried about because it's, uh, you know, they're not, nobody can sound like me and I can't sound like somebody else.

It's like, so I never worried about any of that stuff. It was all great that there were so many people playing the music. And yes, there was a time when I thought that the record companies were signing too many instrumentalists just because they wanted to get in on this. And quite frankly, those guys were not that good. They weren't that great. They felt like it was a trend almost. Yeah.

And it's just like, well, listen Somehow they thought, well, you write this little Kind of smooth, little snappy tune You put a little sax on top, but boom That's all it takes I'm thinking, that's not even close to what I do with my music These melodies are They're like inside of me

And I have to squeeze them out And it's not like I just go into the studio And just whip out the studio and just whip out a tune and put a sax on. This is, as you saw in the movie, is painfully crafted to make what I consider like a little masterpiece, every song. So I'm thinking, okay, you can put out all the other stuff that you think sounds like me, but it won't even come close. What year did you start flying a plane? Because that's another thing that we have in the dock, but not... You fly everywhere. You freaking

flew back. You flew for the premiere in New York. You actually fly this thing around North America. Yeah. Yeah. And it's pretty slow too. So it takes a while to get from one coast to the other. I started in 80, I think 89, 89 was when I started flying. So it's been 30 plus years. And, uh, I don't know. I just, it's one of those things I was intrigued with it. See, these are the things I like to do. Things that only require me to study something and learn something and get good at it. I don't become a pilot. You just have to work at it. Nobody can pull your hands and make you fly a plane. You have to do it. You have to know how to hit a golf shot. You have to know how to play the saxophone. So I love the things that it only requires me and my discipline and time and

energy to get good at. I love that stuff. So what are two other things that you easily could have tried to master that you decided, nah, screw it, I'm not doing that So what are like two other things that you easily could have tried to master that you decided, nah, screw it, I'm not doing that? Like, I feel like video games, you would have been amazing. I would have been, yeah. I would have been awesome. Had the discipline.

But was there anything, is there like a ship that sailed that you kind of look back and go, ah, I could have been great at that. I should have done that. Well, there's a ship that's not quite sailed yet, but I'm trying to catch on and I'm trying to get. Well, there's a ship that's not quite sailed yet, but I'm trying to catch on and try to get on the cargo part of the ship. Can I guess? You can guess.

Fishing. You'll never guess. No, not fishing. You won't get it. All right. What is it? Learning French. Really? Yeah. It's not hard. It's not hard. It means you just have to study French and put an hour a day in it and in about a year, you'll probably be speaking French really, really well. I just don't have that hour or I don't want to put that hour in right now. And I know what it takes and I'm not doing it.

But at some point, you're going to do it. Well, I take French lessons once a week right now online. And I do look at French and think about French a little bit during the week, but it's not enough to get great at it. And I know it wouldn't be that hard for me. It's just that, okay, where am I going to get that hour from? But by the way, I need an hour to just sit and do nothing. My brain has to get quiet sometime. I can't always be doing stuff. Are you cheating as you get older? Are there PEDs, hyperbaric chambers? What's going on with you? How are you cheating the process of time? Anything? Yeah, I take saunas every night.

Infrared saunas? Not infrared, just normal sauna. Normal sauna. Okay, what else? I take my hot and cold bath every night. I do that at home. Hot and cold bath, all right. Hot and cold bath, saunas, and I exercise every day. And that's pretty much what I do. Well, that's all the musicians that keep going as they get and, you know, keep going. It always seems like Mick Jagger.

What is he, like 74? But he was always like exercising even when he was like 23, 24. Who were you the most jealous of during the course of your career? Who was the one person out there that, I know you're not a jealous guy, but somebody that was out there that you were like, wow, that guy's good, man. No. Nobody? No. Nope. No, no. I mean. You're just worried about you. Just worried about me. And the only people that I looked at and thought were that great are all the old jazz masters. Right. And then I would just study their music. But it wasn't like I needed to go out and see anybody.

I don't really go to live concerts that much because, you know, I'd rather just take that extra hour and practice. Right. What kept you going? Once, I mean, once you climbed the mountain and you had multiple albums in a row that made a kajillion dollars and you sold out every arena you ever would have wanted to sell out. And then at some point, some musicians,

they go, all right, I'm good. Yeah. Not, not, I'm not going to do this anymore, but you like love the grind.

I mean, that's one of the things that documentary is about you still love everything about it like are you surprised would you have thought that 15 20 years ago that you would still be care about like the day-to-day aspect of it oh absolutely i'm not surprised at all i i this is the way i am so i mean i'm i actually start my December tour tomorrow. To me, I'm working as hard as I've ever worked to prepare for any tour I've ever done. I'm psyched. I guess for me, what I love about it is you practice something and then it's time to perform.

It's like you're on the driving range. Okay. If there was never a golf tournament that I play in, I'd think, okay, I want that golf tournament. I want to prepare for something. So when I'm practicing every day, I'm going, okay, I'm preparing because I'm practicing this great lick that I'm playing. Okay. Can I do that in front of an audience when the moment hits? Can I? Well, let's go see. And so for me, that's what it's all about. So I would never think I've had enough of that. That's the whole thing that keeps me going.

Right. Yeah. Who's the most surprising person who ever told you they loved your music? Well, I think when Miles Davis told me that. That's a good one. Yeah, I mean, we did a show together in New York at Lincoln Center.

And I was his opening act. So we play the first show. And Miles, he's not playing straight ahead jazz back then. He's on to a whole different thing. And people are loving it. And he's doing this whole, it's very modern sounding music. So we open up. And then in between sets, he comes into my dressing room and tells me,

hey, I really like what you're doing. Great job. And I'm thinking'm thinking holy shit that's awesome and then he says why don't you open why don't let me open up for you the second show and i go are you kidding me whoa okay so he opens up we get on on stage it's about maybe almost midnight there there's about 100 people left in the audience out of 3,000. Wow. Because they came for Miles. Yeah. I was just starting.

And I thought, you know, Miles, you knew exactly what you were doing for wanting to open up for me. And I said, that, you know what? And I said, I tipped my hat to him. I said, you deserve it. You've earned that right to do that to your opening act. That's hilarious. But I'll never forget thatipped my hat to him. I said, you deserve it. You've earned that right to do that to your opening act.

But I'll never forget that night for the two reasons. One of what he did there and also his nice compliments. So yeah, I think I was a little surprised. Both times I was surprised and both made me smile. The first time you watched a cut of this documentary. Oh yeah. What was that experience like? Because it's so weird to watch a cut of this documentary. Oh yeah. What was that experience like? Cause it's so weird to watch a film made about you.

Like I know you've been in the spotlight, you know, for four decades at this point, but here's this carefully crafted film by somebody who's great at what she does. And it's about you. Yeah. So are you watching,

are you enjoying it? Are you nervous? Like what are, what are your reactions? Very nervous. Very nervous. Only in the sense that I know the world's going to see it.

So I'm nervous about, like, okay, what in there that I'm going to do that I'm not liking, that I'm wishing that no one could ever see again? Like that thing I told her not to put in in the movie where, where we won't say what it is because it's super funny, but it's something, some video that I did back in the, oh yeah, I said, please, you have to promise me you won't put this in.

Yeah. She put it in. She put it in. Yeah. But I was really nervous. But one thing about Penny, she sent me an email prior to the, to the link to the link to letting me see it. And it said, hey, you may not like the first 12 and a half minutes of the video, of the movie. Yeah. Because it's pretty harsh on you. But she said, don't worry, you win in the end. And I thought that was kind of her to say.

So when I started watching it, I was smiling because I already knew what was going to be there and already seen all that and heard all of that for four decades. So everything she said, I just smiled. It didn't bother me at all. And I was touched that she cared enough to send me that email. She didn't need to though, because I was completely fine with it. And yeah, when I watched it, I was just kind of thinking, okay, as I play my saxophone, am I going to like those licks that I'm playing? I know she's going to capture a lot of practicing shit. Is she going to capture me practicing where I nailed it? Or is she going to get me practicing when I didn't nail it? And I'm thinking, oh, I hope I'll be okay with that. And fortunately she got all the good stuff. So I'm happy with that. Last question. Well,

we should say, I'll do my last question after. You have a new album coming out, we should mention. Yeah, please. Let's talk about it. Talk about the album. Okay, great. So, New Standards is an album

about the sounds of the 50s and 60s. I love the traditional jazz ballads. I love the jazz masters. We're talking about Stan Getz and Dexter Gordon and Miles and Coltrane. But I loved it when they played their mellow jazz ballads. So these jazz ballads have these sophisticated jazz chords and they've got these melodies. Now, not necessarily do I like the whole arrangements that they did back then, because a lot of times they did the beautiful melodies and

then they started playing these solos that were just way too complicated for the song. It spoiled the song to me. Yeah, I know you can play, but it spoiled it for me. So I thought, can I do music like that my way, but still have that sophisticated sound, but then my melodies and then do the solos the way I would want them to have been done? Not to say that they weren't great solos back then. I don't want to say that. So that was the premise for the album. And I think I did a really good job on it. I call it New Standards because I'm not playing the old standards.

I'm playing songs that sound similar in the vibe of the old standards, but I'm calling them New Standards. So that's the album. I'm loving every minute of it. All right. Good luck. Thank you. Before my last question,

I forgot it. I have a second to last question. Great. Like the Spotify era of music where people can just take their 12 favorite songs of yours that they have and just throw them on a playlist. Yeah.

Not the way you originally intended as you're writing an album, you're trying to say stuff. Yeah. I know it's originally intended as you're writing an album, you're trying to say stuff. Yeah. I know it's like, on the one hand, great that you're exposing, that these playlists are exposing

all these new people to your music. On the other hand, not how you originally intended the music to be heard. How have you reconciled that in your head? I just had to reconcile it because I didn't like it at first. I didn't like it at all.

I like having to drive down to the record store and get the record. I like that. It's a romantic moment. You go down there with your friends or your loved ones or your significant other. Hey, let's go see what's new. And then you'd go and you'd ask a person, hey, what new music is out? Oh, here are the new records for the week. Oh, I didn't know Elton John had a new record.

Yeah, what's it sound like? Well, hey, do you think we should get that? Let's take it home and let's listen to it with some wine or whatever. So that's romantic to me. Now it's just anybody has it when they want it. So I just basically had to go, okay, that's the way it's going to be. And the fact that my music is getting out there, I'm just going to embrace it.

So I'm just embracing it. There's no point in not embracing it. So I'm going to try my best to be on those playlists and do what I can to expose my music. But the truth is, if I could have it my way, people would listen to the records the way I made them, song one to song 11, in that order. Well, you saw what Adele did, right? No. With her new album that just came out. She got Spotify to get rid of the shuffle button for it.

Because she wanted people to listen to the album from, I don't remember how many songs, like one first song through the 13th song in the order she intended. Fantastic. Because she's Adele, Spotify is like, yeah, okay, we'll do that for you. They're not doing it for me. But I think she got rid of the shuffle button. So for your new album, I think it'll be how you intended it from first song all the way through. Because I think a lot of people, they either do shuffle or playlist stuff like that. So anyway, Adele, paving the way. I hope so. Adele, if that's true, thank you for doing that. That's amazing. I'm a big fan of that.

All right. Last question. It's important. You're not going to expect it. No. As we cover in the documentary, you're from the state of Washington. They lost their basketball team. Uh, yeah. 2000, 2008. I know. Sonics,

the 1979 NBA champs stolen away. Yeah. By Oklahoma city, literally stolen away. We even did a podcast for, we did a ringer podcast about how the Sonics were stolen away. Yeah, we did.

That's how passionate about this topic. I love this. I love Seattle. away. Yeah, we did. That's how passionate I am about this topic. I love this. I love Seattle. Yeah. I like the history. I love those old Sonics teams. It is this city that I would say is one of the seven or eight most profitable cities,

for lack of, I mean, they have a lot of money in there. There's a lot of tech money. There's people, there's generations of people that care about basketball. Why can't the Sonics come back and how can Kenny help? Where are you in this? Why haven't you helped? You're a man of so many passions. Why haven't you directed any of them toward the Sonics? People need you. I'm flattered that you think I could make a difference. You could be part of an ownership group. I was offered part of an ownership when the Sonics was bought,

when they moved to the, what was the name of that? Oh, the Key Arena? The Key Arena, that's right. In fact, the family's name was Ackerley. And they owned the Key Arena. And I remember when they said, we're going to open up the Key Arena. We really want you to play. And I said, well, I'll do it on one condition. I want floor seats for the Sonics.

I said, I want them for free. I want to buy them. And so they agreed. So you got courtsides? I got courtside. I got 50-yard line courtside seats. I had four right in the middle that I paid for, but I got access.

I said, so I made them. So what year is this? Is this nineties or two thousands? It might be right around there. I can't remember the exact. It's gotta be nice. So Sean camp and Gary Payton,

those guys are probably in the team at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sean camp, Gary Payton. So you're courtside for the Sonics games. And,

and I would play the anthem many times. So I would just sit in my seat and it's time for the anthem. I literally stood up, walked like five steps, played the anthem and backstepped back into my seat. It was so good. It was the coolest thing ever. Did you interact with the players at all?

Not really. They nodded at me. I remember playing when they were playing that championship game. I think they were playing against the Chicago Bulls. Yeah, 96 finals. And I played the national anthem. And when I play the national anthem, when I get to that high note, I do my circular breathing thing. So I hold that note so long. And it drives some people, just like the documentary, it drives some people crazy. And most people go, whoa, it's so amazing. So I did that and held the note. And as I did that, I looked at all the Chicago Bulls guys and kind of pointed my finger at them saying, this is for the Seattle Sox.

I'm pointing my finger at you guys. I think they might've lost that game. So I love the Sonics. I was so heartbroken when they left. And there should be a way between, you know, Bill Gates is up there. You got Amazon. Bezos. Starbucks is up there.

With all those guys, you would think that they could get together. How about Pearl Jam? Eddie Vedder, who's been on this podcast. I asked him about this too. The Pearl Jam guys. You could put together an amazing ownership group. I don't know. Just throwing it out there.

You know, I think Jeff Bezos probably has a better chance of doing the ownership because it's going to cost so much. Right. It's probably three billion, two and a half, three billion.

Well, you got to, maybe you could do the same agreement where if you play the anthem, I'd be happy to do that. At least two courtsides, maybe four. I'm sure the courtsides

would be going nuts. I mean, think how much those courtsides would be now. Oh my gosh. Your 50 yard line, Jesus. Unbelievable.

It's like 20K a game. Oh yeah. I think, what did I pay? It was like maybe 900 or 1100 for a game. For four? Yeah,

that makes sense. Yeah, something like that. It wasn't that expensive. And like I said, I wasn't asking for freebies. I just said, look, I just, so I made them sign a contract that said, I have the right to buy these tickets in perpetuity. So that means that they don't matter what happens. But then when the team's gone, okay, that went away. Unfortunately, I wonder if you could have enforced it with Oklahoma city.

Maybe you just could have kept it with Oklahoma City. Maybe. You just could have kept the tickets. It just held them high and left them empty every game. And then fly to Oklahoma for the games. Yeah, you could have floated your plane. All right. I look forward to meeting you in person. I know we're going to do a dinner at some point.

I'm really excited for people to see this film. Thank you. I loved how great you were with it and great with us. And you just couldn't have been better to work with. We all appreciated it. I want to thank you on behalf of when Penny said that she pitched the idea to you. She was sure

that you were going to just go, no way. I want to thank you because you gave it the green light, Bill. Penny had her pitch and all that, but you're the man that gave it the green light. You obviously thought there was something there. So thank you.

I'm just completely flattered that anybody would be interested in doing this on me. It was me and Sean Fennessey and Noah, and we all kind of were like, wow, that's one of the best pitches I've ever seen. We also didn't think you were going to do it. Oh, wow. We just were like, ah, why would he do it?

But we had the connection and all of a sudden, and then you became enchanted by the pitch. But I just assumed if you were ever going to do something like that, it would already happen.

But sometimes those are the best films. You know, the funny thing that you mentioned that, when it came up, I presented it to my management team and they go, look, we just did one,

because they manage Dolly Parton. Look, we just did one with Dolly with these guys from England. Look, we know them really well. You'll get ownership. You're not going to get any ownership if you do it with HBO and they had all these reasons, money and this and that and I went, you know, I get all that, but this is happening right now. Right here, I've got people excited. I like the idea of it and I just think this is a better way to go. Let's just do that. And as soon as I said that, they said, great, we're behind you

and we'll make it the best we can. So it's interesting that you thought that it would have already happened because my own management thought that I should maybe just figure out how to do it on my own so that I can own it. But this is better. You know why it's better? Because this is real. I had no control. Like if I had control over this documentary, first of all, it wouldn't be coming out now because I'd still be tweaking it.

Right. It would take nine years to make. Nine years. And I would have taken out every lick that I didn't like and replaced it. And then that scene where I'm doing that stupid video, that would definitely not be in there. Right. But the fact that it's in there makes me cringe when I watch it,

but it's real. And I think that's why people really like it because it's not just a fluff piece about my career and how successful I've been. So that's because of you guys. So I thank you for that. All right.

Well, it was great to get to know you during this process. I'm excited to buy you dinner, which will be happening soon. I'm looking forward, yeah. And I look forward to the film coming out. Thanks for being on the podcast. Appreciate it. Yeah, Bill, thank you. That's it for the podcast.

It was produced, as always, by Kyle Creighton. Don't forget about the rewatchables. JFK coming Wednesday night, 30th anniversary, coming up for that movie too. That's why we're doing it And then this podcast Thursday I have something special for the Thursday pod Plus a million dollar prize But stay tuned for that, see you Thursday

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