The Bill Simmons Podcast - Tatum in NYC, MVP Questions, Best First-Round Matchups, and Kon Vs. Coop, With Tim Legler

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons reacts to Thursday night's Knicks-Celtics game before being joined by Tim Legler to discuss Joel Embiid’s bizarre surgery news, Scoot Henderson and the Trail Blazers, and possible playoff matchups (0:06). Then, Bill asks five questions to try to narrow down the MVP race (01:18:50). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Tim Legler Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Learn More at https://linkedin.com/simmonsbill The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Bill Simmons podcast brought to by Fandul. We're also brought to by the Ringer podcast Network where we did a rewatchable's live show in San Francisco last night. We did Basic Instinct. I had an awesome time at the Tony Repi Theater. Thanks to everybody who came out, a rollicking show.

We were going to be running it on Monday's rewatchable feed. We did Basic Instinct, a movie that we did six years ago during, it was like three weeks after COVID started, and we did it on Zoom, and we needed to redo it. We needed to do it in San Francisco because it's a great San Francisco movie.

So that's coming Monday night. Coming up on this podcast, Tim Legler stops by to talk about favorite round one possible playoff matchups, the MVP race, Joe L&B going down. We spent time talking about the Portland Trailblazers for some reason, but I enjoyed it. And a whole bunch of other NBA stuff heading into the final weekend of the season. Zach Lowe and I will be live on Netflix Sunday night. We'll know all the playoff matchups by then. We have a little gimmick that we're going to do on Sunday night.

You can watch us live on Netflix. It'll be after the Masters. Not sure of the time yet. I just watched Celtics, Nicks. Interesting game. The Celtics basically have the two seed locked up, but need either one more win or a Knicks loss, and they're in MSG.

And they scratched Jalen Brown this morning, which is this new NBA tactic that's not that new. I forget who started this. Basically, here's what I think the thinking was, because I don't think Jaylen Brown. You could have rested them tomorrow night. Like if you really wanted to win this game tonight, you play everybody.

This is my guess. I think the Missoula and the Celtics, they're looking at this. Like, if we have our full team with Tatum back and we go to MSG, when we play the Knicks who are trying to beat us, and they beat us, there's some sort of psychological edge that you combine that with what happened in the playoffs last year

with the two come from behind wins in the first two games in Boston. Tatum gets hurt in MSG, the Knicks beat the Celtics in the series. And a Knicks team that seems pretty confident against the Celtics in general combined with them beating the full Celtics team at MSG, is that worth it? Or we could go the other way, bench Jalen, play missing the guy who's a first team all-em NBA guy this year. And maybe we beat the Knicks anyway. And if we don't, we could just say, well, we didn't have Jalen.

This seems like this new psychological warfare that teams do. So the Knicks won. They were celebrating like they won game seven of a playoff series. And if you're the Celtics, like, eh, we didn't have Jalen Brown. Derek White couldn't hit a shot. Tatum was seven for 22. And on the flip side,

Josh Hart, who had been reaching the point where it's like, are the Knicks just going to bench him in the fourth quarter of playoff games and play other guys. He goes five for seven from three, 26 points, which I think is the second highest total he's said this year. He had 15 points in the previous three games. Just one of those games.

I think there's a bunch of lineup stuff that the Celtics are going to do against the Knicks when it actually gets to a playoff series. You saw Kate out there in crunch time, always getting switched on Brunson. I think when we get to the playoffs, they're probably going to play Jason Tatum at the five with Jalen Brown with a shooter and two guards.

The other thing, the only thing that I'm a little worried about with the South Texas, Derek White seems like he's running out of gas a little bit. He just couldn't make anything today. He was two for 10, 0 for six from three. He's played big minutes this year. He's had a big burden. He's going to be on some all defensive teams. And if I had arrested anybody in this game, I probably would have arrested him over Jalen Brown.

So decent next one. I get it. It's not their fault that Jailen Brown didn't play. And I'm sure they feel like they can. hang with the Celtics and Brunson, if they can just keep these games close in the end, there is basically Brunson against whoever has the ball and crunch time for the Celtics. The Knicks are going to feel good about it. I still would rather play Cleveland in round two than the Knicks, which Tim Leggler and I talk

about in a second. But I just still think the Celtics have a better team. And my mind did not change tonight. The one thing that important that happened tonight was Tate and went back. to MSG and they talked about it a lot, obviously. Hard not to think about it over and over again as this game was going on, especially in the second half, the TV angle. They were on the left, the Celtics were on the left side when you were watched on TV,

the same spots that they were in when Tatum went down in MSG last May. There was a couple moments when he collided, he stumbled, and you just get the PTSD flashback. He rebounded really well. he did not shoot well. I didn't, I didn't think that was like a particularly awesome Tatum game, but his presence was everywhere and he's rebounding. But I think they needed to get him over the hump with this. And maybe that played into the Jalen Brown piece as well. Like, let's, let's have Tatum. He's running the show. Let's get his feet wet in MSG again. We're back to the scene of the crime,

basically. It's a weird one. I remember Gordon Hayward, he got hurt in the first game of the season against Cleveland and Cleveland. And then anytime he went back there, you couldn't help think about it all the time. So they needed to get over the hump with that. Legs and I talk about Tatum when we're about to do this podcast, but a remarkable comeback. Athletically, he looks basically where he was before. I still, like today was a good example of like this next team is kind of built to stop Tatum and Brown. You can see all the wings that they could throw at him. and it was hard for him to find the right space and stuff like that. But the bottom line is I think they lose this game by 15 to 20 if Pritchard and Shireman

don't just both start making threes. There's a point in the third quarter when it just seemed like this game was going to get completely out of the hand and then the Celtics started making threes. When it gets to a playoff series and if it is it is the Knicks, the Tatum Brown combo becomes so much more important because it allows them go small it allows them to target whoever the non-ananobie defender is. And I just, this game did not change my mind. One good thing that happened for the Celtics,

Pritchard, who always sucks against the Knicks, I thought it had a really good game. So we'll see. Look, MSG, a lot of demons at this point because of the Tatum injury last year and because of the playoff series, but it would be a great series. And I don't think, I don't think Hart would be doing,

Five for seven from three every game. No series would be my guess. But congratulations to the next fans. All right. We're going to bring in Tim Legler and we're going to talk basketball for 95 solid minutes. Buckle up. Let's take a break. Pearl Jam and then Tim Legler.

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandul. The NBA postseason is here and Fandle knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team. When is winning along. with them. Fandle, the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. Build the same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip-off. Don't forget with Fandul, you get paid instantly when you win. Download the Fanduals Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 plus select states are 18 plus D.C. Kentucky, Wyoming. Game problem called 1-800-Gambor call 8887-7-7-7 or visit ccpg.org

slash chat in Connecticut. Our friend Tim Legler is here. You heard him last night. Portland. San Antonio. We're going to talk about Portland because I think we both like Portland, but lots of stuff to discuss. We're doing this before the Thursday games. The big story was Embedit is now out for the first round of the playoffs. It looks like appendicitis. This guy, it just, the injuries, this has become one of the most star-cross stars we've ever had. This is like entering Bill Walton kind of territory of one of the great players who just never got to where he could get to.

I thought I thought pretty much I was past the point of thinking anything with him would be incomprehensible. This is incomprehensible that I got this news today. I was flying back from the game I did and actually you're looking forward to doing this with you and kind of going over everything. And obviously they've been playing pretty well of late. And you're looking at them and just as without question, the most interesting team in the like the bottom half of any of these playoff brackets. Because of what they've represented and who they have. And it's like finally, like, it looks like they're actually going to head in to the postseason, not only with all three of their stars, like upright, but Paul George playing some of the best basketball he's played in five years.

Yeah. And then this happens. And it made me think, first of all, can I ask you a question? Like, you know, you hear about it all the time, but do you know anybody personally that has had a penic studies that had an emergency ependectomy? Not anybody I have ever worked with. not anyone in my family and not any of my friends. Me either. I don't either.

Actually, I was, they thought I had it. It's actually a pretty awesome story. I was doing post game sports center pre and post. One of the Heat Spurs finals. I don't remember which year. It's game seven. Did they both go seven? So it was the year that it went seven games.

It was game seven. Yes. I did the pregame and I was I didn't have post game duties just pregame. We had one segment left to do and I felt the most intense burning pain I've ever felt right basically in my sternum. Yeah. And I started kind of sweating. Everybody was worried about me, but I'm like, no, no, we got one more, literally one more

segment and I'm done for the season. Right. And so we did the Sports Center segment. I basically finished. I collapsed to the ground, went down to one knee. I could not walk anymore. It was only the first time, I think, in my life I've ever been on an ambulance.

They put me in an ambulance from the Miami Heat Arena. I had to go to an emergency hospital. And it turned out it just was, it was not appendicitis. I don't even remember now. It's been so long ago what they diagnosed me with, but they treated me at the hospital. Within a couple hours, I was feeling a lot better. I watched game seven of that series

on a cell phone with a producer who traveled with me in the ambulance who held the phone in front of me and we kind of watched the game together and that's how I watched that game, that epic game. So I thought I had it, I didn't have it. I've never known a person that's going through it

whether a family member, a colleague, friend, or anything like you just said. So you hear about it all the time. You know it's a real thing, but it's like, are you kidding me? Of everything else this guy's dealt with? Now this happens now. What I didn't know,

and I think you may have cleared it up just now, I had no idea. like what's the time frame for something like this? It seems like minimum 18 days. And sometimes it's even gone longer than that. So it's just so if you start it right now, if you start the clock on 18 days, maybe he could come back for like the last two games of a round one.

But this is also somebody that has just, you know, he's played 38 games this year. He played 19 last year. He put 39 in the 24 season. He hasn't gotten a 500. games yet for the playoffs, 59 playoff games total has never played more than

11 games in a playoff thing. And what you said before was the interesting piece of this. You know, as a Celtic fan, I'm watching this going 2-7, like I do feel like the Celtics have owned Philly over the years, but I also kind of don't want to see the rejuvenated Paul George and B just being healthy for four weeks, but two of the weeks are against Boston. Some of the young legs they have, they have good

coach. And, you know, this is the 7, 8, 9, 10 this year in both conferences, because like you said, you were at that San Antonio Portland game and you were saying before we got on how you liked Portland, I feel the same way. Like, I watch Portland. They're not going to beat OKC in a playoff series, but they'll throw some punches. They're going to land some shots on your jaw. They have a guy, Obdi, at the end of games. I thought that Portland, Denver game was one of the most fascinating games I watched all year on Monday date. They just went toe to toe. They made like 24-3s. They couldn't stop Obdi.

He was going to his right over and over and over again. They can protect the rim. For an eight-seed, that's a pretty good eight seed. You know what it showed me, though, that game? Because I watched that game, too.

And I've kind of fallen on the Portland bandwagon here over the last six weeks or so. They've become the team. I like watching my guilty pleasure team in the West. Me too. When they're on, it's kind of like how I feel about Charlotte in the East.

I just enjoy watching them. They're just so fun. Charlotte's not even guilty anymore. Now Charlotte's just a Yeah, you don't even have to feel guilty pleasure now. Portland's the new guilty. Watch them. That's very true.

But it showed you those two games, the Denver game and then the one that I called last night against San Antonio, who by the way, didn't have Wemby, didn't have Stefan Castle who's one of the elite perimeter defensive guards in the league. The difference between those two teams defensively, Denver

and San Antonio. Because like nothing really came easy for Portland in this game. They had a couple of pockets of time where they kind of look like themselves in the regular season. But overall, there was just very little space to be had against the spurs. And the one thing, and they didn't play as well as they can offensively. It was amazing. San Antonio had a very difficult time, like ending the game.

They go up 12, 14. Then it was eight. And you're like, okay, if Portland gets a couple stops here, this is going to get interesting. And they couldn't do that. Yeah. Eventually, San Antonio, you know, they get the win as they typically do. Portland wasn't their best,

but the one thing I'm thinking about watching that game, and I love Avdia. We actually had a chance to sit with him in the green room before the game. I've never met him. He came in and did 15 minutes with us. It was probably maybe the best player interview we did all year. First of all the guys got an incredibly engaging, outgoing personality. Like he likes doing the interview process.

He gave really insightful answers. We talked about his history, like in Maccabi and everything, and coming over here and being a young, young man and now going to Portland when you're starting to find yourself in Washington. He took us through all that stuff. Yeah. So I'm really pulling for this guy. But the one thing he has to add and was so obvious to me in watching this game,

he has to have a step back jump shot. He doesn't have one. His game is power and force downhill and he's really good at it. And he gets to the line 10 times most nights. He didn't get to the line in this game and it hurt their offense. And he shoots these little floaters shots in the lane. these little push shots. And he really just overwhelms you physically because he's so damn strong.

And he comes at you so hard in the open floor. Great little Euro at the end. He could step around charges. He does not have the ability to shoot a shot, like into a step back off to dribble in one-on-one coverage. And think about it, he's averaging 24 points a game. He's shooting 31% from the three on the season. It's like just good enough if he's got time and he's squared up that you still have to close out on him.

Yeah. And that's what he wants because he'll go by you. If he adds that, it's a whole other level. That's the way we're going to look at him because he's rebounding at like eight, nine a game. He's getting six, seven, eight assists most nights. He's efficient with his shooting.

Very tough. He defends. He does it all. He just does not have an answer to being closely guarded if he can't get to the rim. Right. And San Antonio does that about as well as any team in the league. They're not going to let you. get to those spots. He started a pretty good game production-wise, but it was glaring to me.

I'm like, there were situations where it's like he, the ball got swung back to him, seven on the clock, six on the clock, he's at 28 feet. What do all the elite players in this league do? They go to a step back jump shot. And he doesn't really have that. And to me, that's like the final piece for him where he will be a guy that will, everybody will look at as like, this guy's legitimately an all-lead caliber player if he can add that. And of course, the team success has to come with it. It's interesting. He was 13 for 21 in that game, but I did notice what you said.

And against Denver, he was just able to just go right over and over again. He always really good at this, putting you in and then getting to a spot. What you're talking about is what Jalen Brown added, where Jalen Brown had a lot of the, but he was a better three-point shooter. But he added like those two moves off of driving hard to the right where he could cross over now

and then he's got that little turnaround thing he does like the little moonball turnaround. He does the jump stop and then he spins back the opposite direction. He didn't have that last year. So he added two things that now when he's going hard of the basket, teams have to figure out what to do.

I think with the, so what did you think a scoot last night? Because I have a lot of scoot stock from a couple years ago and he's been a little up and down but there's moments with him and defensively there's been, I think some really interesting things for him.

His shooting's still a little erratic, but it feels like they're trusting him more and more. What did you see when you saw in person? Well, so first of all, and Richard and I, Richard Jefferson and I, a couple different times in the game are like kind of elbowing each other

and kind of because there were times that he demonstrated, like, by a lot, was like the most explosive athlete on the floor. And you're like, some of his burst up the floor. He had one play where he deflected a ball. It was coming right at us at the table where we sit.

And there's like no way. Number one, he's getting to this ball. And number two, there's no possible way he can stay on his feet and stay in bounds. And he did all of those things. He went all the way down to the ground. He put his right hand on the ground like a running back. And somehow, some way stayed in bounds at an impossible angle. And then he goes and he's got a defender like had an angle on him to cut him off from getting a breakaway dunk,

blew right past them and threw it down. And you look at the game, like he's making some threes. And then he shoots back to back, open look, airball threes from opposite corners. And you're like, man, and then he had, I said it on the air, two drives that were unbelievably, like, lightning quick crossover, explodes off his feet, gets to the rim to where, like, no one's going to jump. Like Luke Cornett was on the floor. He was like going to be late. So he didn't even jump.

And he tries to put. some funky English on the ball and it like slams off the backboard. And then he missed a reverse layup under similar circumstances, uncontested after this great move. But then he made a couple threes after that. So his night was like kind of like a mixed bag. Right. He's definitely a better player than he, than he was when he came into the league. He's got, he's actually had a pretty good run here shooting the basketball from three over the last month or so.

He didn't shoot it particularly well in this game. but he is eye-popping, man, with his quickness and his burst and he's just his raw athletic ability. Will his efficiency ever improve beyond a 41% shooter? I don't know, man. He's got to do it.

This is three straight years. He's 41 and under. Like, you've got to at some point, get that thing up to 44, 44% percent from the field, cut down on some of the turnovers, finish the shots I'm talking about. When you do all the work with your handle, show me some finesse at the rim.

So he has more there. He's 22, so that's good. 22 years old. Bill, he's come a long way from where he was. And a lot of people, I saw some stuff on social media last night, like after the game. Like, is it too early to call him a bust? And I'm saying, yeah, I think he's definitely not a bust. You can't call him that because he has a level of quickness and explosiveness from like a standstill position by you.

That's really exceptional for this league. and he's starting to shoot it better. He's so young. He didn't, I don't think it ever really been taught the game very much before he got to the league. So some of his instincts even aren't super high level. That's getting better. No, I think he's got a chance to do some things because he's definitely improved dramatically in certain areas. I don't like his finishing stuff, but I think that can get better with how good of an athlete he is.

I don't think he's like, you mentioned that that weird. spin shot. Like, I just feel like he's not as good. Like, where somebody like Rose and Westbrook when those guys came in the league and you saw them go to the basket, they were scoring. And that's the kind of guy I thought he was going to be coming into the draft. And the shots all over the place. And that's the other thing that needs to get better. But I think athletically, he belongs in a lot of these games. And if I'm them, I at least feel like, yeah, I feel like I have something here. And, you know, and they're, they're, they're, um, they're giving him a chance. Like,

I felt like earlier in his career, it was almost like sometimes coaching staffs and Splitter's done a really good job with this. You have to look at a player. Every team, if you're lucky, you've got one or two guys that kind of do everything well. And they also get the green light to do anything they want because they're that good. Right. Everybody else, you know, you sort of fall into a lane. You better do something exceptionally well. And good coaching staffs look at a guy.

and they don't always focus on what he's not doing that annoys you. Because guys get caught up in that trap, and it's very difficult to get out of that. Because those flaws are going to surface almost every night, whether it's your handles too loose, or you just aren't a good enough passer and they get tipped and stolen, or defensively, like, you're not able to keep up or whatever, you're shooting, whatever.

They're going to surface, right? Over time, hopefully you correct them. the good coaching staffs, they go, you know what, I got to live with that stuff because there's something else there that we need and we're going to value him for that. And I feel like that's where they're at now with him. And you're still going to have these nights with really bad looking jump shots and he's going to turn a ball over and miss a couple driving layups going too fast at the rim.

But then he's also going to have a five or six minute stretch, man, where he looks like so dynamic athletically that it gives your team something you don't really have. otherwise at that spot. You know, I really wish he had spent a year in college and played in some big games versus, I just felt like that was such a throwaway year that last G-League year. Because I look at somebody like Castle,

who is turning in one of my favorite players in the league. But that year he had at Yukon where they had a loaded team, he didn't really have the ball that much. And he had to figure out how to do all these other things and be a glue guy and kind of step in when they needed him. but was also in some really big games. And then when he, and it was one of the reasons he dropped to four in the draft

because people are like, what is he? Is he, can he be offensive enough? Is there enough here? And he goes to San Antonio. Now he is who he is. And, you know, I know you have a vote. I have a vote. I'm more open about my vote than yours.

But I think Castle's going to end up on my third two-mobay. And I don't think he's going to make it. I don't think I'll be the only one, but I also don't think he's going to make it. But I thought he was one of the best players I saw this season, the non-centers. Like just impactful the entire time he's out there,

doesn't take a playoff, relentless. I thought defensively, like he's in the running for first team all defense for me. I think he fills in a lot of spots for them. I think there's more there too. But yes, with Scoot, like, I just wish he had had that extra year.

Anyway, the Portland team, there's a lot of defense. And I don't think that's like a walkover 1-8 matchup for OKC. OKC will beat them. Yeah, they will.

They will. And, you know, it's at the end of the day, Oklahoma cities, their defense will just wear you down. And eventually you succumb to it. And they demoralize you with their defensive pressure, the way that they convert any mistake you make into points the other way.

It's demoralizing to you. This team also, when you put a lineup out there on the floor with Drew Holiday Day, tomani Kamara, you can put thigh ball out there now. It's not the best shooting lineup. But what you can, and even with Klingin and Robert Williams behind you, what you can, and Obdea really competes when he's playing like the four spot, they, they can do things defensively too. The problem is they're 27th in the league in three point shooting.

And it is a problem when you play teams like San Antonio and Oklahoma City who over rotate on all penetration. And I've always compared it to like when you put food into a fish bowl, if you looked at the lane from above, when the ball's, when the ball's, dribbled into the lane, that's what it looks like against these teams. Piranhas, how they go to the fish food, right? That's what it looks like. And so as a result, that kickout pass, if you're good enough to make that without it getting tipped, and they're going to close out lightning fast and they're going to get there, but you will get the shot.

You better make your share. And you're going to have to have these crazy shooting nights against them. And I just don't think Portland's capable of doing that. Right. So they're fun. It's going to come to an end. But the good news is it's moving in the right direction. They've got a nice little mix of a couple of vets and a bunch of young dudes.

I like watching play. I'm really impressed with the improvement of Tamani Kamara. I almost didn't recognize them offensively. I haven't seen him in person all year. But watching a guy in person is different than on TV. And I'm like, man, this guy, this guy's offense and like the way he's hunting it and shooting threes early in the offense and like putting a ball on the floor. And he's so great defensively.

They've got a real player in him. And I didn't know if he was ever going to show this kind of growth offensive. but he has. And Klingin's another guy, how much dramatically he's improved his impact since he came into the league. I just like their team. It's a shame because they're going to run into some buzz saw

if they're able to escape the play in which they might not even do that. I mean, they're going to probably host Golden State in the 9-10. And even if they win that game, you're going to have to go on the road and play Phoenix or the Clippers. It's probably going to end there. If somehow they win two of those games,

they get in, And now you're going to go get Oklahoma City as your reward. A taste of the playoffs would be great. But I don't think anybody would think, you know, I don't know if they could even win a game in a series against Oklahoma City at most one. But the good thing is it's another team that I like watching that's kind of in the mix now going into next year. I think they could beat the quippers. I just don't think the clippers are big enough, you know, and I was really impressed by how they went against Denver.

and basically they lost the game when Kamara filed out of that game. But what's happened to him over the course of the year? And I don't know. I just think the clippers, as great as Kauai's been, are pretty beatable. One last thing with Portland legs, really quick.

Yep. I have been maintaining that I think this is a stealth, Yonis team. Hmm. Because I don't, I think there's enough acrimony with the Milwaukee situation, with Yonis at this point,

that they're just going to take the best trade now. I don't think it's going to be like, oh, Yannis told us he wanted to go to Miami, so we're going to figure out Miami because we wanted to do it. I think that's out the window. And Portland has, you know, two of their picks, maybe two swaps and one of their picks. I can't remember what it is,

but they have their picks for three straight years. They have stuff to trade. I could see him on this team. You could really talk yourself into it pretty fast. I mean, there's some health stuff with Yannis that you'd have to be worried about. but I just feel like new owner I said this to Zach the other day new owner

um to the foundations and picks like I could just see them getting frisky. That's an interesting one man and that would be I'll tell you what I haven't put any thought into that like Janus going out there but

I'm now picturing it and I'm picturing him out there with this team you can see it and I think one thing that Tiago splitter when we talked to him before the game I mean, by the way, he's, he's great, man. He's a really interesting character. And, you know, he got, he got dealt a really difficult situation with what went down with

Chauncy right at the beginning of the season. Now, a sudden you get handed a team to coach that you weren't expecting to coach and be the head guy. It's a very good job. And you can, you can, it's a testament to how many guys have improved this year that that's, a lot of that's coaching and putting guys in the right spots and valuing them and their communication with them and managing people. And he said, is there anything surprised you? we said, yeah, you know, 80% of this job is managing people. It's not X's and those. It's not how

much you know. It's managing men, managing young men in some cases managing VATs, managing a roster. He said, that's really what the job is. And that's where he had to learn on the fly. And, and he did it. But I'm thinking one thing he did say was they really, really desperately wanted to move the needle for this team this year. Like outside the play in was going to feel really empty, even if it was like one game outside the play. They had to get in to feel what this is going to be like because they do like what they have in some of these young pieces. And so this was important to get in.

And now we'll see. Look, they got a huge game Friday night. They play the Clippers. And I think that what are they like? Is there a half game back? Yeah, they could jump them if they win that game. Yeah, they win that game. They jump them.

And now you get into the 7.8. Yeah. That's a little bit of a different scenario. number one, you get two opportunities to win a game, but you also have an opportunity to get into the seven and play San Antonio and not Oklahoma City. And not that that would be easy by any means. By the way, Portland is the one that they beat them both.

They beat each of them once this year. I think they're scary in that. In that level, I think they're a scary team because of the way they play defense. Just for a one gamer. It'd be fun. The other Yannis team that I've been looking at, I've been watching a lot of Atlanta.

Atlanta Cleveland was a really good one last night where Cleveland was up most of the game but Atlanta you can never really put them away and with their defense and how explosive some of their shooting is all of a sudden they just make up 10 points right away that was another Yanis team for me when I watched them I'm just like

if you just put him in the Akangu spot with the rest of the team I'm watching that's a pretty frightening Eastern Conference team and they have you know they have this New Orleans pick they have some other assets that they could probably make a trade. But I think the second best, I want to talk playoff series with you, like possible matchups. The second best playoff matchup of all the matchups is Cleveland, Atlanta.

If you're just talking about basketball from a, what could happen in this? Because the thing I noticed last night watching them, I don't feel like those teams are much different from a talent standpoint. Like I think they're right there with each other. I was looking up to stats. Last 30, Cleveland's 22 and 8. eighth net rating

Atlanta's 21 and 9th net rating last 20 Atlanta's 16 and 4th net rating Cleveland's 14 and 6 13th rate so basically for almost half the season these teams are right around the same and you could say with Cleveland well some guys have been missing blah blah blah but I don't know

I just think if they play that's that that feels like a game seven to me that absolutely of all of the ones I wrote down felt the most like a seven game series if that were to be the matchup that feels the most likely to be with some like tight

games, some of the games in there would be really high scoring. I think others would be a little bit lower scoring. Some chokes. You'll see teams blowing four quarter possessions. Teams blowing a seven point lead with two minutes left. I don't know which team. It could be either team.

Both of them have the history of coming back up or, you know, blowing a game. I had Atlanta, we had Atlanta, Detroit not long ago. Atlanta went in there and beat them. Right. And man, oh man, was I impressed with their team?

Nikiel Alexander Walker, Jalen Johnson, like what those two guys are doing. What Nikol Alexander Walker has turned himself into as a scorer is incredible to me. And that's why, you know, his name's going to be mentioned for most improved player. And he deserves to be in that mix. And he might win it. Because you're talking about a guy that was really just sort of labeled in this very narrow category of three and D, but mostly D. And it was like, go guard. Picks guys up 75 feet when he was in Minnesota because he was playing like, you know, reserve minutes a lot of time.

So you can do that. Go pick up 75 feet. And we all noticed it. Like, wow, this guy gets into you. If you gave you double figures on a given night, total gravy. It's all about guarding. He goes to Atlanta. Are you kidding me?

The guy for the last like month and a half has averaged almost 25 points a game. Close to 50% three points shooting. And he's getting him off at a high volume. Like, there's no way anybody saw. this as his ceiling as a score. And when you take yourself from a, there's an absolute role player, very limited offensive

responsibility to this, then absolutely you thrust yourself in that conversation as most approved player. And I wouldn't be shocked if he wins it. Yeah, I had Dern for about 60 games. To me, it's like, how does Alexander Walker not win this? He averaged 9.4 points a game last year.

He's at 21 now. And when you watch them, it's not just like he's getting hot from the corner. Like, they're running plays for him. They're flaring him off picks. Oh. Defenses are like shifting their defense to try to like shut him down. It's honestly like watching like Bradley Beale and the Wizards or something when Bradley Bill was good. Like he's a real score that you have to account for.

He's got the Luka mentality sometimes to the start of games who have always joked is the only guy in the league that does heat check on the first possession. The Keel Alexander Walker, like he's like that some nights now. He's getting up five, six, six, seven shots in the first quarter, like, because he's carrying himself like a legit big time score because that's how he has operated. So they're, they're really fun,

interesting team. That would be a great series if that's what we get. I'm sure you're like me. I don't really fully understand the award. I usually steer toward improbable turnarounds from the year before versus like a young guy who's like, oh, you were a top five lottery pick and you're way better in your third year. than you were last year.

Like, to me, that's not a most improved. During somebody that looks different to me because I thought I knew what he was last year, but all the stuff, the physicality he's added, the durability, the night after night, where I just feel like he sets the tone for who they are as a team comes from him and to a lesser degree, Stewart. But he's just a badass. Like, he's out of like your era. You could see him, you know, getting in a shoving match just with.

the Anthony Mason and Alonzo Morning. Like that's, so he just brings that to them, and I think that matters. But Alexander Walker just becoming the guy we're watching is completely improbable. Nobody would have predicted that last year. So I think he has to win it personally. During,

real quick on during, like, yeah, I saw some of it last year did not at any point come to the conclusion that this was his ceiling as a scorer. And if he's gone here, maybe there's even more another level for him offensively. Because the one thing he's doing, that I didn't see last year.

His ability now to screen roll, catch the ball on the short roll, and then do something with it going toward the rim, like avoiding guys and going in and shooting a shot that's pretty soft off the glass. I know he's going to beat you up and throw you around on the glass a little bit. If he gets around the rim,

it's very difficult to stop him from getting up something at the basket. But that was all he did last year. Now it's like they can run more dynamic sets and trust that you can throw the ball to him on the move at 18 feet. and he's going to do something with it. So for me, that's a big, big job.

And actually the other guy we were already talking about, I think you have to give Avdius some look here. Because I know last year, we saw it at the end of the year. Yeah, but it was like a month and a half last year where he was doing this. That's the only thing. It was. But that's, you know, to me, that's why I'm kind of torn on him. Because at the same time, it's a small sample size.

But you also say, yeah, but it was outrageous numbers. It was like 25, 26 at night for like six weeks. So you kind of got an idea, okay, it's in there. But it's a big difference between averaging like 16 for a season and not really being the guy that's got to carry you every night to like, okay, now you're 24 night. Guess what? You better be 24 every night. Like, that's got to be your floor now. And on some lights, it's 35 if that's what it takes.

And then in addition to the other stuff that you're doing, filling up the stat sheet everywhere you look, to me, he also probably deserves a look. But then you got this other category of player like a Colin Gillespie. be or a, I think even Kada, I think even Kada deserves a little bit of attention. He's an impact player now for the Boston Celtics. And I watched him last year, I thought at best, he's going to be like a third center that can play spot minutes. And what he's turned into for them, he has an impact player on a team that's the two seed in the Eastern Conference.

So that's another category of player. Like, you don't even know what they are in the league to, oh, starting on a good team. that's a different look than like guys. Okay, yeah, they're already pretty good players. In some cases, top 10 picks. Yeah. But I had no idea that they were this good. So there's two ways, I guess, to break it down.

And whatever your criteria is will determine it. He was the next guy I was going to bring up to you because I think he's going to be third of my ballot. He went from like afterthought. My daughter, who goes to some of the games was her favorite player other than Tatum. She was always like, I don't understand why Katea doesn't play more. It's like, well, he's back up center. Like he's not, how much is he going to play? Right.

Four centers ahead of him. He's, first of all, is like genuinely valuable now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like there's maybe two, three teams in the league that you worry about with him going against him. But for the most part, like he's 12 and 10 every night. He protects the rim. The advanced metrics are out of control for him.

And I do feel like he's gotten better as the years gone along. Like, he's got little drops. steps now around the rim. But that goes back to your point, like, can you be most improved if we basically did even hear from you last year? Because Shireman's another one like that. Like Shireman's a real asset for the Celtics. He didn't play at all last year. Does that mean he's improved? To me, Alexander Walker is like the definition of the award. I thought you were this, and now you're doing this, and I didn't see that coming. We got to take a break. I want to talk about the playoff matchups. I want to talk about Cleveland, Atlanta, and Minnesota,

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So this is a big topic on my social. Celtics text threads, my Celtic fan threads. Who do we want to play in round two? Do you want to play Cleveland or do you want to play the Knicks? Like we're taping this before the next Celtic game today. And the Knicks have, you know, they played the Celtics. They beat them last year. They have confidence.

You hate playing a team that feels like they can beat you. They were kind of built to play the Celtics. And then you have Tatum going back to MSG and all the stuff that comes with that. Just like, hey, a year ago, this was the worst moment of your life. we're back in this environment again. Cleveland is a team that is super confident against the Celtics. They've had really good battles, and Mitchell has always done

well against Boston. So it's Truce. Like they have guys, but to me, that's an easier matchup, and this ties it to Cleveland, Atlanta. I don't think Cleveland's good enough defensively. And I think you can get good shots against them. And when I look about the two matchups, I personally would rather play Cleveland as a Celtic fan because I think we'd get good shots for two weeks.

Do you think Cleveland's defense gets better? What are you seeing? I don't necessarily think that their defense is anything that you're looking at and saying that's going to win them some games in the playoffs. That is a defense that's equipped where you're trying to figure out how you're going to operate against them in a series.

We got some teams like that in the West. I don't think that, and I actually feel that way a lot of nights I watch Boston. And I think Detroit actually also can be a defense that's that good. I don't feel that way about Cleveland. I think if Cleveland wins a series, it's going to be because their offense can be very explosive. And obviously, they've got two-star guards.

And Mitchell is capable of going off at any time. They've got a stable of three-point shooting around their best players. They added a point guard that can reward guys at a higher degree than Garland could. So they've kind of answered that. But there is one thing with Cleveland. that if I were the Celtics, I would probably look at them as well and say that's probably a safer matchup. You wonder with what's going on with them the last couple years and not just that Cleveland team, but also you bring James Hardin into the mix who's had some playoff issues in the past.

Oh, and you wonder what they would feel like if they fell behind in a series or if they started to have some moments where it was like slipping away a game. that was a pivotal game. You don't know how mentally, collectively, they're going to handle that. So I think if I'm Atlanta, I'm really excited about what you just said. We can get these guys. You have the heart in peace.

You have the last couple years. Honestly, you have LeBron looming as like, what's he going to do next year? Is there a blowed up? Is Janus looming? That team, if it goes badly for them, around one or round two, I'm prepared for anything, right?

Is there a single guy in that team you would bet your life is going to be on that team next year? If they have an embarrassing round one or round two loss, I'm ready for anything with them. And sometimes when you're a team and you hit that point and it's these playoff games where it's three minutes left and you just blew an eight point lead and the crowd's going nuts, like the off the court stuff can can kind of hang around like a black cloud, you know? So look, it's a really, really good offensive team. If you catch them on the right night, you would think they are a top three offense. They're a little like Denver in this way where I feel like I can get good shots on Denver whenever I want. But if you catch them on the right night, they look like the best offense in the league. You can feel that with Cleveland.

Oh, 100%. They have quarters sometimes where they, they'll drop a 40 on you. And it's not really difficult because they pop that when they really, really get the ball hopping. they make quick, decisive reads off their initial ball screen. And that ball then comes out of there quickly and there's still 14 seconds on the clock. They're going to make you chase it for two or three passes. And they're going to end up with a great shot. And I've seen them string together seven, eight shots in a row in a quarter like it's nothing against good teams.

For me, the entire reason I would be suspicious of them doing real damage in multiple series is because of the psychological effect. and are they tough enough when they have to be tough enough? Two, two, everything's on the line. How tough are you going to be tonight? That's what you wonder about them. And look, they had a little bit of an excuse last year because they were banged up. They were not healthy at the end of the year after a 64 win season. It's just bad luck to not be everybody's there feeling good to represent what you were most of the season.

They weren't. That's fine. Two years ago, they didn't have as much of it. and I don't feel like they've got one this year. Like if it, to your point, if they lose in the first round, like, and you're talking about to a team like Atlanta, if they lose to Atlanta, which is this team that came, kind of arose out of nowhere the second half of the season,

and that's who you lose to in the first round. Like, there's no telling what they might end up doing to this roster and just the way they view how they want to go forward, because clearly this isn't moving in the right direction, if that's what happens. At minimum, I mean, really, they should be thinking, conference finals at minimum. Anything else should feel unsatisfying to them.

But realistically, where they ended up in a regular season, you know, maybe second round is where it's going to end. But they should be thinking conference finals finals. And in their own house, they should feel, I think, really like unfulfilled if they don't get that far. But I think the rest of us are looking at them a little bit differently. Maybe second round will be their ceiling. on Fandall they have the odds for each round like who can get to round two stuff like that

the Hawks are plus 280 to make it to round two so that means they think this series is going to be around four to one five to one favorites for Cleveland I would have it closer in that now if I was betting my life on it you'd pick Cleveland because they have more talent but I think Atlanta can throw some haymakers on them and the thing that the reason I don't like at land in the series is because I think weirdly the key guy for the series for them is going to be comminga. Because he,

he's that one guy off the bench that's the wild card guy. And if he's like the commingo like he was last night, then now they have a lot of stuff going on. I also like gay a lot. I think sometimes I wonder if that's their best lineup when he's out there with like their other best four guys. But

when they, when comminga brings them something extra off the bench, It's like this wave of dudes that could just create their own shots and their defense. I think they're a scary team. Like for, I don't think they're going to win three playoff rounds. But, you know, I don't think this was an accident that they just put this 30 game stretch together. I would be very surprised if those two teams played if Atlanta didn't win at least two games in that series. Yeah.

So we both think seven. I wouldn't be totally shocked if I win seven. They're going to win at least two games, I believe. And maybe one of those games, Cleveland, you know, their offense. because they can do this to people, catch fire and they get one 18, 20 point win. Yeah. But I think the other ones are going to have

very meaningful fourth quarter possessions because I was just, the CJ McCollum effect is a real thing for them. They needed somebody like that with a lot of playoff experience, handling the ball in big moments, organizing them, you know, running a ball screen set

or getting into an ISO late in the clock and getting something quality. They needed that to go around some of these younger guys that they're playing and then they've seen grow. They're there. They get up and down the floor. They run. They've got some big time defenders on the perimeter. They can score.

They've got, you know, a budding star player in Jalen Johnson. Yeah. You know, I don't know that he's going to, I don't know that he's going to average 30. Like, is he ready for that in a series in any six or seven games series? I don't think he's quite ready for that. No. But maybe that's a year away. to me, very competitive series.

I definitely would pick Cleveland to win that series, but I would be very surprised if that's a four-game series, five-game series. That would surprise me. The problem is you're going, there will be at least three, four games going in the last four minutes,

and you've got McCollum against Mitchell, and I'm just, I really like McCallum, but the problem, if he's your guy in the last three minutes with some of the other guys that are in that conference, you know. Minnesota, Denver.

So I think I've said this to you. I think it's right now Denver, okayC, San Antonio, not in that order, and Boston, and then we drop off to the next level of teams. I think those are the four teams that can win the title right now. And I don't really have anybody else in there.

But we've not seen a healthy Minnesota team in a while. And it looks like they're going to be healthy for this Denver series, a team that they've had a lot of success again, and a lot of confidence against the last couple of years. And if I'm Denver, I'm like, fuck. Like, we got the three seed, but now we're, we could have played the Lakers or Houston, but now we're into up with Minnesota and ants coming back and McDaniels is back. And here's go bear again.

And like, what the hell? How did this happen? Do you give Minnesota a chance in that series? Yeah, because it is weird in that, like, the reason, because the Lakers were playing great. Luca was playing great. They were rolling. They looked like they were going to be the three seed at one point.

Like, okay, they're going to get three, man. So you go to four or five, you got Denver, Houston. I think they would have felt very good about that. And so they just keep playing, though, and they're winning, and their offenses humming like it typically does. And they got their guys back and all that. And then because of what happens to the Lakers, they get three anyway.

They just fall into the three because the Lakers just continue to drop back. So now you're going to end up with this Minnesota series most likely. I do think that's how it's going to end up. And for Minnesota, and they're not playing great coming in to the playoffs. It's just in terms of winning and momentum and feeling that feeling every night.

Health is the most important thing for any of these teams, regardless of how you're playing going in. But it is nice to be on a little bit of a role. Minnesota really isn't. So they'd have to find that closing games, winning games, like in the heat of the playoffs against this team and figuring out

a way to guard that team. It'd be tough. I mean, I think I definitely would favor Denver. I agree with you, by the way, the way you kind of rank those teams and just put them in boxes. I agree with you. So those three teams in the West. And Denver, I think for me at one point wasn't, they started to drop out of like my certainty of including them with Oklahoma City and San Antonio. And now they're back in that mix. Those three teams, and I agree with you, Boston looks like the one team that could stand up to those teams.

Yeah. And like coming out of the east, like in legitimately. play them tough enough and have enough on both ends of the floor to scare those teams. I would like Denver in that series. I know, you know, Minnesota, though, if you're going to get one team to play, that probably would be the team. Just because of like your history with them and, you know, you have solved that equation before.

And I think that would give you a little bit of confidence going into that series, even though the way Denver is playing right now offensively might not matter. Yeah, you'd have the confidence on D. you have Minnesota's best guy will think he's the best guy in the series even though if that's not necessarily true. He will think that. Here's the thing.

And I haven't given up on Denver and they've really tested me this year because I watched them a lot as to you. They still have another level to go up and they can flash it for like five minutes. Gordon seems healthy to me finally. When they really need to play defense, they can. Their problem is they don't.

they don't play defense like that for a while. And then when they have to, they do. When we get in the playoffs, they're going to be fine. I worry about all the Miles Murray put on this year as we get into like having to play eight to ten more weeks. Like he had a lot of minutes.

They've had, I think they had nine overtime games. I was looking up some of the MVP stuff. And like Yokic, I think had 25 games where he's played 37 plus minutes or more. It's just a team put a lot of miles in their two best guys, which scares me. But Cam Johnson, he finally is starting to look like Cam Johnson again.

And that was the guy that I felt like was going to be weirdly their swing guy because he's just going to be open at the end of these games. If he's not making shots, now he's making them. I think they're really, really, really good. I think they can beat San Antonio. Like, I would probably pick Denver in a San Antonio series. I don't know where you stand on that. too early.

You want to see the first round. I do. I need to see the first round because there's just little things that matter to me. Like even if you win a series, let's say Denver plays Minnesota and they just hypothetically, they say they win that series 4-2, whatever. And there's a couple of guys for Denver that are like not shooting well. Like they didn't shoot well in the series.

And I'm thinking about what it's going to take against the San Antonio defense. So like things like that really matter to me, like around the margins of your rotation. Who's playing 7, 8, 9? Who are those guys? How are they playing? What kind of impact do they have? What's the matchup going to be?

How much confidence going into round two does a coach still having guys if they really couldn't make a shot for his series? Like stuff like that can change the way I think. So I'm going to wait on that based on how the first round goes. I think that's fair. My biggest hesitation with San Antonio is even what we saw the other night where Wembe got clipped and hurt his ribs.

And, you know, he's at 1839 minutes. He played 37 plus minutes five times this year, right? You get to the playoffs, your best guys are out there of 38, 39, 40, 41. Like, you can't fuck around. I thought it was really telling in that overtime game against Joker when they had to kind of keep them out there for the, and I just thought he'd look gats. by the end of it because they've basically, they've been using them as like this pitcher on a pitch count all year. It's like you're going to throw 90 pitches,

five, six innings, we're getting you out. Our bullpen's going to take it home. They just want him to have an awesome 29 to 30 every game. I don't think the playoffs work that way. And I really wonder at his age, he hasn't totally filled out yet to have to go every other night and really have to play 35 to 40 minutes a game.

I don't know if he could do it and stay healthy. What do you think about? No, that's a good point. And look, I know he's had success against both of those top teams and their defenses, but doing it over a course of a seven-game series with that level of speed coming at you, you know, the number, the amount of traffic that they force you to play in, right? And obviously everything's called a little bit differently. They're allowing more grabbing and holding and all of those things.

A guy that's been around for a long time that, you know, and we'll get into the MVP talk too here in a second. but the numbers on him as far as just total minutes played for the season. If he were to win MVP, it's like the only two guys lower are like, you got to get back to Walton. Right. In like 77. 70.

Yeah. And Embed. I think Embed the year he won it. Yep. For just raw total number of minutes. So what you've put your body through. And there's two ways to look at it. In one way, it's like, okay, your legs are a little bit fresher than some other guys.

who played 75, 80 games and were playing 34 minutes, right? You get that little break with the injury. You come back rejuvenated from that. Your legs feel a lot different when you're out a month in January, and you come back early February, your legs feel different.

Like right now, Steph Curry's legs feel amazing. But unfortunately, it might be just too little too late what they're going to have to try to pull off. But he feels incredible and he's showing his way he's moving and he's got so much energy. The problem is that also,

the downside to that is when you do now have to go play 35 to 40 minutes, because these are pivotal games in these series where you're going to have to leave them out there that long, the attrition of that, can the efficiency still stay the same against defenses this good with this much activity, the number of guys that are going to be in your lap the entire time,

well-coached, like, you're going to make adjustments on how they want to hit you with different things than they did the game before. Yeah. Big challenge against these, two defenses, man. There's a reason why those two teams won 60 games and you're looking at them as the two favorites to win it. There's a reason. And it's mainly because of their defenses and how different they look than most teams in this league. Yeah, that's there was, I can't remember it was last

year of the year before, but Joker had so many miles on him. Remember his three point shot just went away as the playoffs went along because he started losing his legs. Yeah. I look at the way SGA is at 2259 for minutes. Like just ahead of Yokage. But SGA, I don't feel like they put a lot of miles on him during this season. There's a lot of fourth quarters you get to sit. Yeah. You know, you probably played less than 70 games.

I don't even think he's at 70 yet. And I feel like he'll probably be the freshest of all the superstars. You mentioned the Wemby minutes. He's 101st in total minutes in the league. He's not even the top 100. He's played less minutes than Zion, Russell Westbrook, and Sam Hauser. he's played 400 minutes more than Luke Cornet, his backup setter. So, you know, we just don't know it.

Meanwhile, Yokic 35 plus minutes, 37 times. He's at 940 plus games. This is, I think this is part of the Jalen case for first team all NBA to me. He's played 37 plus minutes 25 times. This is a guy that not only is he out there, he's durable, he's playing big minutes. He's going, he leads the league. And I think he's second in. rim driving to the rim.

He's second in free throw attempts. Like he's just a physical force night after night. I do think that matters with some of this stuff. No, it does matter. And I think, I think, look, what you haven't had to do with Wemby

because of their incredible depth is tax him to that extent to win games. It's pretty incredible. I mean, you look at their team. I think three guys are averaging right, right about at 30 minutes. It's nobody more than 31.

And you look on any given night, he's got 11 guys that he can go to with confidence. And now even the way Carter Bryant's been playing, and, you know, each, he's another guy that you, in a playoff. Now, will he trust him in a playoffs? He's so young, I don't know. I made it, you know, made a crack on the air. He made five out of six threes last night.

And this is true. I look, because I did the math on a piece of paper, like, real quick. He took his three-point percentage from 30 to 33 in one game. Wow. Like at the end of the season, because he hasn't taken that many, but he's going to have to because they're not guarding him out there. He's a freak athlete, really good defender. But that's another 10, 12 minutes of raw athletic ability,

if you want to throw them out there. Nobody has to get overstressed on their team. Everybody's in the 20s. It's kind of incredible the way that they do it. And so will he now have to do that, Wembe? Does he have to get extended to 35, 37 minutes in these games? when their depth and defense has been so good and overwhelming and their offense too, they haven't really had to.

And maybe in Mitch Johnson's mind, he's thinking, no, we're not going to have to do that because we're good enough to keep doing what we're doing. We just did it for a course of a season. We're very confident that we can operate the way we need to, particularly when your barometer is Oklahoma City and you've played so well against them. Like, what else do you really need to know?

Like, that's the ultimate challenge. Can we play against that? team. They've played really well against them. So maybe they don't feel like they have to change their formula up. And Wembe can stay playing 28 minutes, 30 minutes, you know, that kind of thing. Cornette was a great signing. He was obviously a very valuable Celtic. Carter Bryant, just really quick.

Let's not spend more than 20 seconds on this. So you saw him in person last night. It's a fucking big dude. Like it's kind of shocking, right? It seems like he's like 610 and he's thick already. Like I think he might. end up being like a stretch five in five years. I'm prepared for anything with that guy's career.

Bill, he was the only player. I called eight games in Vegas last summer. He was the only player I saw that completely jumped off the page athletically in what I was looking at. He was in a completely different category. And I saw, I was like, wow, man, this guy, I actually said, like his future, you're looking at a guy that down the road is an all-lead.

one of those teams caliber defensive player. I believe he's going to get there because he is big. He's got, he's one of those guys that moves and runs and you don't hear his shoes because he's so light on his feet. Yeah. And if he and by the way, his release looks so good. Like this great

rotation. I love that guy. He stays with the shot. Look, he's not going to have a lot of five for six three points shooting nights, but his future is very, very bright. And the fact that he's played more minutes literally in every month as the season's going on. A little bit of a dip here in April. But prior to that, every month his minutes went up.

It told you a lot on a team this good. And how just thick and strong he is for a rookie. It makes no sense. So Celtics, we'll do this quick and then we'll do MVP. Celtics 27 could be Orlando now. Maybe Charlotte. We're going to see some moving around. They'd beat Orlando.

The problem with Orlando is that would be a physical series. They're going to knock people around. They're going to try to street fight it, which I'm not too excited about. Charlotte, on the other hand, you know, they bullied them a couple games ago. I thought Jalen, Charlotte was up 10, like late in the third quarter, and the Celtics, the two wings, really, I thought, took over the game and bullied them a little bit. That's a winnable series, too, which as a basketball aficionado, what what Boston matchup is more exciting to you, Boston Orlando or Boston, Charlotte?

Charlotte. Okay. Whoever Charlotte plays. Me too. You know, they can even get Detroit as a 1-8 and with what went down earlier this year with the fight and all that. Yeah. You know, so even if even if you think, okay, it was a one-off event, there's no history there. It doesn't matter.

That stuff absolutely is in the air. By the time you get to, you know, early game three, guys are. already sick of each other. Like they got some guys that talk. You know, that, that to me could be like the most entertaining match that we could get. But it's Charlotte and anybody because of just how fun they are. And by the way, like they're what they've done in their record for like over half a season is so incredibly impressive because it's been both ends at a floor. The metrics are there on both ends.

This isn't just a team that all of a sudden caught fire offensively, but they don't guard. They want to win games 135, 130. they can do it another way. They just finally clicked. It all came together. They've got any, they help themselves. Kobe White,

that's a great pickup. The Abate is a perfect guy to play in the middle. And then there's other four offensive players that they have in the starting lineup. They all look like they like each other. They're having fun.

That, whoever they play, that to me is like the one, you know, high seed, low seed matchup in the first round that you can't miss. You can't miss any of those games. whoever Charlotte's playing.

So that's why for me, it's like I think your best bet is to try to avoid them. I mean, not that you can avoid them, but if you don't end up with them. I don't want to see them because you figure two games, they hit 20 plus threes and God only knows in those games. There will be one game where they're home and they're just awesome.

The Detroit I feel bad for it because they're the one seed. They're probably going to play somebody good. And they're going to be shoehorning Cade back into this, really without a ramp up. And I just, I've seen too many basketball seasons. No matter it's like, oh, well, Kate'll be back. They'll have them healthy. And it's okay, but you're shoehorning him into this team that's just been playing

without him for five weeks. It always gets a little wonky those first couple games. So I feel like somebody could throw a haymaker at them right away and try to do a talking about injecting a guy. And like, I love the guy. And he would be, he'd be the, you know, if he ends up, you know, being a guy that, I guess is he going to fall short of the games? He's falling short. Yeah, it's not happening.

He's going to fall short. So if he's not eligible, he would have been an all-league player. He would have been, you know, I don't know, he wouldn't have been necessarily as high up in MVP voting of some of these other guys, but you had to have considered him as number one C to the East and the year he had. But here's the, here's the thing, to your point, you're now taking a guy and you're basically re-infusing him into your offense. And he takes seven more shots at night than everybody else in the team.

So you're talking about a guy that like from a usage standpoint, an importance to your offense standpoint, like he's in that category with guys like Shay and Yokets to his team. Yeah. Like what do you do without Cade Cunningham if you have to navigate the Eastern Conference playoffs? How are you going to settle games? Cade Cunningham is the guy that does that for them.

And he takes a lot more shots. Now you have Jenkins like, hey, look at me. Look over here. I got this. And now he's, I don't know, it'll be, it'll be weird. Everybody's kind of settled into the new version of the Pistons without him.

And obviously, Cade comes back, it's his team again, but I don't know, it's still a little awkward. You think there's any chance, Detroit, Charlotte, first round,

Charlotte wins that series. I do. I do. I, I wonder with Detroit, we've seen this over the years, a team that's a really, really good regular season team,

but then the playoffs, when you have to do this. You can't. You're just still here. And it's like Denver, we know is here. And as soon as the playoffs starts, they're going to go up. I kind of think Detroit is who they are every game, which is fine. And by the way, it worked and they're going to win 60 games.

But I think when I think of the Detroit Charlotte matchup, isn't that the worst possible team for Detroit? You have like these two awesome wings. And the weakness of your team is your wings. And now I just, I don't like that. I think that's one reason why I like the Celtics against Detroit, too, is because I just think the wings are so much better than Detroit's wings. That's, at some point, just becomes a real disadvantage.

Well, what they're going to have to solve is you get into a series and game by game, teams figure out even more ways to make sure the guys they want left open are left open. Right. And Detroit has a few of those guys. and they're guys that they have to play because that's their style. They get into people. They force turnovers and run.

They get on the offensive glass. Their wings crash from the wings in the opposite corners. That's their formula. Get to the line. Get points in the paint. Well, if you're now playing a team that's well coached

and they do some of those things well, they secure their own defensive glass. They don't give up points in the paint. They don't turn the ball over. I just described Boston in a lot of ways. They don't do those things. And now you've got a guy like Missoula is like,

okay, let's look at this team. Pistons, okay, they play one game. Let's look at the film. Okay, here's how we can make sure that the ball gets funneled to certain places. And we're going to face guard Duncan Robinson. Yeah. They'll help responsibility.

Like, he's not going to be part of this. Like, if you look at their team, they make 11 threes a night. 11. They win games sometimes where they make seven, six. That's going to be hard against teams like Boston. You get a team like Cleveland.

You get some of these teams, Charlotte, you get some of these teams that are going to shoot 40, 45 threes, and there's going to be nights that they're going to make 15, 18, maybe 20. And you're making 7, 8, 9, 10? That is a lot to overcome. And so that, to me, is the big challenge for them. How exposed is their lack of shooting once they get into a series? By the way, look, for Detroit, I don't know if Charlotte could beat them or not.

I know that would be a very scary series for them. It would be what hell of a series. I don't fear as much Philly without a bead. I don't feel Orlando, fear Orlando for them. I don't fear Miami. So really you're talking about this is the one team. Yeah. If you're the one seed,

if that's the one team that ends up eight, that's just bad luck for you. Because I think those other three teams, I think you'll just do your thing, especially Philly without a bead, and you're going to be fine. Charlotte is a scarier team because of the way that they can just,

really just put you, hit you with an onslaught of offense. The other thing with Detroit is just the lack of guys who can create their own shot in a half court. And it's a lot of Tobias Harris, who I think's been really good for them this year. But it's a little like what you mentioned with Hardin before in the playoffs. We've kind of seen Tobias Harris of the playoffs. So that would worry me too. Last thing.

And then we got to take a break. I've just, we haven't, we talked about Tatum three weeks ago the last time you were on. And we're doing this right before the next game today. So I don't know what's happening in that game. I'm like to me he seems all the way back now. And it's not even like, ah, he's 95% there. There's a couple things missing. I think he's back like for real.

And if anything, like he's added a couple small things that I don't think he necessarily had in the same way last year. Like his, his rebounding and his passing is like slightly better. And honestly, it's like one of the most amazing comebacks I can remember watching in real time. Even like thinking back to the first two games he had this year versus where he is now, where it's just like he's back. Did you ever in your wildest dreams think this would be how this played out? No, not at all. I mean, you know, I'm picturing him all that time when we're kind of waiting.

I mean, it became more apparent he was going to try this. and it was kind of like better right away in a lot of ways. I was just kind of like, man, like this guy's going to traffic and rebounding the ball. Yeah.

Like, you know, you do something like that. Like, you don't really want to be jumping around other people. And mentally, and pushing off to go get, you know,

rebounds and stuff. So I was like, man, his rebounders are great. The offense definitely looked like he was favoring how he was landing on drives. And as a result,

it was affecting, his concentration at the rim. And I thought, yeah, that's pretty normal. And guess what? That might not come back until next year. Because that takes some time to shake that off where all of a sudden you find, and I just, and it's not the same injury, I was not the same level player,

but they're coming back from three torn ligaments in your knee at the same time, like I did, it missed 10 months. And I thought I was going to miss the entire next season. I came back in like February. Yeah. And I remember that game. when it finally was like I was not thinking

anymore about anything and I was just playing basketball I thought that was going to be next year for Jason Tatum like you're going to have to live with it and maybe it costs them in the playoffs because he's still going to be playing a lot but he's not going to be himself and maybe it cost you

when the raise when the margins get so thin against these teams well I can news for you man he's now last five games he's right about 50 40 80 splits he's been rebounding the ball, great, ever since he came back. He doesn't look like he's favoring it anymore. Like credible, his rebounding numbers.

Like, he's 10 to 15 a game, like pretty consistently. The stretch five piece of him in the playoffs, I wonder how much we're going to see. Like, that might be their, their version of the lineup of death where they have CADA. lineup, yeah, yeah. Because I, they'll test Vucevic the last couple of games here and see what they have. He looks too slow to me. I don't know if he's going to be playable in the playoffs. I think they'll keep feeling it out.

But my guess is when they get to the higher rounds, he's out, which will leave Kata, Garza maybe, but really Tatum doing a lot of stretch five stuff. And they've thrown it out a few times. And it's like, okay, because, you know, they can still rebound when he's the center. Well, you look at the top teams they're going to have to play. If they were to employ that lineup, but it's not going to be something you're going to hit them with all night. But if they can selectively use it in game strategically, you look at Detroit, Cleveland, and the Knicks, those three teams. And like, you ask yourself, well, how hard is this going to be for them to guard? Extremely.

Extremely. If you've got the Knicks lineup that they want to play most of the night, that's going to be very difficult for them to guard. Same with Cleveland. because they like to play two bigs a lot, and that's going to be very difficult, the ground coverage and playing guys off to dribble. It's going to be hard. Even with a guy as versatile as Mobley,

that's going to be hard for them to pull off. And so then you say, what about the other end? Well, yeah, Cleveland, you could be susceptible in the offensive glass. Like, that could be a problem, but they're so, Boston is so good at the details of the game, chipping on guys and getting, you know, between them in the basket and making them come over your back and there's just the little details that it takes when you do play small,

they excel at that stuff. So I think the risk reward is more reward for them. And I think you are going to see that lineup sometimes. How much we'll see. But I don't know that they're that worried about getting beat up at the other end by playing a small lineup. Mitchell Robinson would be the one guy that it might be a mistake against. Nobody's keeping him off the glass.

Yeah. That's where you're going to need Caden in his series. All right. We're taking a break and then I want to play the MVP game with you. Welcome to Crunch Time presented by Tax Act where we break down the NBA's final stretch and spotlight the players and teams feeling the heat before the playoffs. Tax Act helps you handle the final stretch of tax season with tools that make sure you maximize your refund and come out on top on April 15th. All right. Who has the most pressure to perform in the playoffs? I am looking at two teams. They're both in the Easter conference.

They both have pushed a lot of chips into this season. The New York Knicks, who traded all those picks for McKell Bridges, basically built to compete and try to win a title right now. And if they don't win, we'll see. Are they a Yannis team over the summer? And then Cleveland, who was already all in, does the Hardin for Garland trade,

has some playoff. kind of bad stuff that happened the last couple years. And if that happens again, who knows with them? So I would say those two teams have the most pressure of anybody. That was CrunchTime presented by Tax Act, helping you beat the buzzer, maximize your returns and hit a game winner during the final stretch of tax season. Visit Taxact.com to learn more.

Conditions apply. See Taxact.com for details. This episode is brought to you by Square. If you're in the restaurant game, you know that efficiency is everything. Square lets you take payments, track sales, handle inventory, manage staff, send invoices, and keep up with finance, all from one streamlined system. That means flying through orders or zero mistakes, get in the data you need, and keeping everything working together. So you're ready for whatever's next. Learn more about their customizable plans at squareup.com. This episode is brought to by IG Private Wealth. Here's the thing. Real wealth is is not just numbers on a page. It's living life on your terms, running the business, taking care of the family, setting up the grandkids. IG Private Wealth helps make complex financial decisions

more straightforward. With integrated plans that connect all the moving parts with you at the center, always. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com and get advice that puts you at the center. All right, last thing, we're going to talk MVP. You're not going to tell us your vote because you're saving it.

But I have, this is something I started, the mid-2000s where I had little questions that I tried to ask myself to set the MVP order in my head. And I did this, I think in the 06 season, I think was the first time I did this, which was the year Kobe averaged 35 a game. And I think he finished fourth in MVP. Steve Nash won for the second straight year. Dirk was on a good Dallas team that ended up making the finals. And then young LeBron was in there too. And it was like nobody kind of really knew who the MVP was. And I really thought it was Kobe.

So I came up with these questions and I'm going to go through them with you. I've added a fifth question, which I did not have before. But anyway, so we'll start here. We agree it's SGA, Joker, and Wembe. Those are the three with Lucas. out. So we have three candidates for the MVP spot, right? Unless, listen, unless, unless Luca, you know, they're talking about, right, trying to appeal and because he missed two games for the birth of his daughter and all that. So unless they, unless they win that, which I don't know how that's going to play out, but that's what they're saying.

Like, he's going to, they're trying to figure out a way. But you wouldn't vote him. You wouldn't vote him top three, would you? Luca. I think he, I think if he, I'd put it this way. if Luca ends up being eligible, I think then there's a four. There's four guys that you have to talk about.

That's how I would describe it. You can't dismiss him and say he's not in the top three, particularly with what he did over the last month of the season and how differently we viewed the Lakers as a result of that. I would say yes, he needs to be included in the top four. Yeah, I've already said where I stood on this, Lags. He got 16 technicals cost himself a game. Maybe he should learn his lesson.

That's fair. Absolutely. Maybe behave yourself better on the court, Luca. That is, listen, man, that is very, very fair. I have no rebuttal to that at all. And I'm not certainly, this isn't my campaign for Luca for MVP. But I am, I am, consider myself pretty, like, unbiased about this stuff. It is what it is to me.

And I just think, I think the way he played his numbers. And then the big thing was, are the Lakers ever going to look legit? And they, they didn't to me for. so long, but then their offense got so good, primarily because his efficiency picked up that, like, okay, I think he's played himself into the race. But, you know, he might not, they might not make that exception for him anyway. And maybe it's a moot point. I agree with you. I had him, when he got hurt, I had him 3A, 3B with Yokic. And then Yokage went up and Luka went back down because he got hurt. All right. The MVP questions. Question number one.

If you replaced each MVP candidate with a decent player at his position for the entire season, what would be the hypothetical effect negatively on his team's record? So sometimes this question doesn't necessarily qualify. Usually, if you feel like, oh, if you take this guy out, they would be 20 games worse. That's usually what we'd think. All right. So I'm going to give you the players. SGA, that team, OK, so he's 64 and 16.

Let's replace them with Brandon Pesemski for the entire year. SGA's out. I didn't know you were going to do this. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm throwing, yeah. I'm going specific at you. Brandon Pizemsky is now in the SGA spot and probably a little more A.J. Mitchell.

And everything else is the same. Jalen Williams still gets hurt. You have all the other guys that's the exact same season, but I've replaced SGA. How many wins does OKC have? With everything else on. Everything is exactly the same. I am just replacing... Exactly as it did this season,

including the lack of availability of Jalen Williams? Yes. Okay. How many games would they win? My goodness, this is a tough one. Yeah. So figure A.J. Mitchell gets more of the SGA minutes in this hypothetical world.

And Brandon Pugensky is probably off the bench. AJ Mitchell's probably starting. Man, oh, man. 64 and 16 is the record right now. Mid-50s? I had 53 and 29 okay that's probably right

all right so we love because I'm looking at it I'm looking at it like you know they the way they play is so unique like they were I believe they were eight and four without them yeah when you didn't play at all you didn't replace them with anybody

so you put a player like Pajemski and is a decent player you look at that and the way that they defend but driving that off offense. So that's why I said mid-50s. You said 53. We're probably, we're about the same. I might give them a little bit a win or two more than you.

Wembe pulling them out. I'm replacing them with a Congru from the Hawks. That's who their center is. Now they have a center combo of a Congru and Luke Cornyette. They are 61 and 19 right now. What's their record if we make that switch? They probably win. 50. Okay, I had 47. And 47 and 35. Maybe you're right. So we'll put it somewhere in there, 47 to 50.

I've been so impressed with, with like, that, that to me might be the best this year connected team in the league. Oh, yeah. Talk about role acceptance and just like the vibe around their team. It's kind of like exactly what we thought about Oklahoma City last year. I'm not saying Oklahoma City's lost that. but this feels like the version of that this season. So I just wouldn't put them much, much past them. I still think they could get to 50.

We replaced Nicola Yokic for the entire season with the Congu. We'll use the same center. We also have half a year from Aaron Gordon and some of the other stuff that happened. Right now they are 52 and 28. What's their record with the Congu? I can't wait for your answer on this. because I was surprised by my own answer. 43 and 39.

Oh, wow. You went over 500. Yeah. I think they could still be 500. So I only have 35 Aaron Gordon games, Jamal Murray, all the role players, and I don't have Yokic

and you still think they can get to 45? Wow. But I said 43. I said 43. I had 35 for that one. In the West? I think that's too low. night after night.

I think that's too low. All right. Well, you, so you basically had everybody dropping off by 10 to 12 wins. So that, so question number one is out. I do think Yokej probably means the most of the three of the day-to-day success with all the stuff he does for them. Would be, but I guess maybe you could say that would 1 be 2. All right. So that question's out.

All right, this is a good one. Question number two. In a giant pickup game with, every NBA player available and two knowledgeable fans forced to pick five-man teams and their lives depend on the game's outcome. Who would be the first player picked based on how everyone played that year? First player pick. My life depends on the game.

You want to do first player picks for each team? No. First player picked. We get everybody in the league. I can take anybody in my life depends on the game based on how they played this season only. man. Well, for me, it's between Yokic and Shea, and you said, wait, the key word, you said knowledgeable NBA fans? Yeah, that we both qualify for that.

No, no, no, this qualifies. You know, because if you're just standing there in the eye test and they don't know as much about the league as they need to, and you look at at Wembe and Yokic and Shay. That's what I'm saying. True. If you know the league, I'd probably say Yokic. I would as well. Yeah, I'd probably say Yokch. Wemby third, but it's, I'm too worried about,

I need to fill the 17 other minutes that he's not playing. Yokic, I know I'm getting 40 minutes. I can run out and I can put any kind of team around him. And he's been the most, I think, I think he's just been more consistent than Wembe. I think the biggest reason for me would be under that exact scenario is I'm looking at them and I'm going, okay, with him being the first pick,

it doesn't really matter as much at that point what I end up with around him. Right. Because everybody's going to be able to play with him and do their thing and not just stand and spot up. They're going to be able to play and move and play basketball and his just natural inclination for making guys better and reading the floor is like all fits,

no matter who he plays with. you just described why he probably should have been the MVP every year this decade. But we'll keep going. Question three. So I had Yokoj as well, by the way. Question three, if you're explaining your MVP pick to someone who has a favorite player in the race and your pick was a different player, well, he or she at least say something like, I don't like your pick, but I at least see how you arrived at that choice.

So I came up with this question in 2008. I thought Kevin Garnett was the MVP. Kobe ended up winning. It was the one time I was a little too homery because I was watching so much Celtics and the more you watch the same team, you're just like, oh, you don't understand all the stuff he does.

And I don't think I got it right. I don't think I looked at it logically enough because I think I overrated how much I was watching KG. KG was awesome, but that team was really good. They could survive him not being there for a game or two. I actually, if I had to do that again, I might actually vote for Chris Paul that year on the Pelicans or the Hornet. I guess they were the New Orleans Hornets that year.

It was basically just him and David West and Tyson Chandler. It's just and Chris Paul did everything and he was just so fucking awesome that year. Anyway, I think people would see the SGA case if you're explaining it. I think they would see the Yokech case because you could go into like, hey, this guy's already won two MVPs. This is the best offensive year he's ever had. He's going to lead the league in rebounds and assists. He's going to be fourth or fifth in points. He does everything for them.

He's actually gotten better from an efficiency, everything standpoint, than all the other years when he was already an all-time great. That's the case for him. And there are three seed, which I think matters. The Wembe case, the minest thing hurts it. Would people, if you're explaining the Wembe case, would people at least see it? Okay.

I love this question. I'm going to start with just myself and knowing myself. And I do think I'm pretty good about, hey, man, let's debate it. Let's make our case. And it's an opinion at the end of the day. It's subjective. Just make valid points that makes sense. And I'm going to hear you out.

I'm going to think that's a well-played argument. And who knows who's right? Because it's just an opinion. I think I'm good about that. Sometimes I'll really dig in if I'm just like, no, you literally don't know what you're talking about. For the most part, I think I'm good about that. I will say this.

I don't think when it comes to this topic, and this isn't just the average NBA fan because those people clearly, like you're in the corner of some team or some player, good luck convincing him of anything other than their guy is the guy. That's impossible. That's like social media world, but I'm talking about even inside the industry.

Yeah. The people that do this every day, they watch it, they break it down, they do it on TV, radio, they write about it, whatever it may be. It's your job. to do it to know it. I'm finding it's almost becoming very,

almost like politics in this country now. Instead of two parties, there's like four parties. And like, you're not convincing someone that's trying to make their case about one of these guys from people. You're just not doing it. It feels like that.

There's a lot less of that where you're kind of like listening. That's actually a really good point. You might not change your mind. But you might say, hey, you know what? That's a really good argument. I hadn't really considered that. That's a good argument.

And that's probably the best case you could make for your guy. I still kind of like my guy and here's why. That's, I felt like it was more of that before. That's not what I'm sensing now. And just turn on any media outlet on the course of a day and just watch because this topic is so prevalent right now. Who's going to win MVP? It is going to be really fascinating race to see how this plays out.

My goodness, are people dug in on their guy. And there is no other answer other than their guy. So I actually disagree. So maybe I dumped this question. Maybe we're all just to, well, just, it's a great question, but maybe people don't even want to hear other arguments once they decided. No, I love the question, Bill, because that's how it should be. And I just don't feel like people are coming to the table to discuss this stuff with really an open mind. And again, look, let's be honest.

If you made up your mind about something in your intelligent person, whether it's politics or sports, you know, debate about MVP or whatever the hell it is, best dog breed. You're a Jack Russell guy and I'm a golden retriever guy. You're coming to the table. It's very rare that you're going to be talked into changing your opinion, right? Because it's based on so many things. But at least you can, I guess, give the person more validity if they vote a different way. Like, that's valid.

That's how you feel. And you made a great argument. That's valid that you're doing that. I feel like more and more people just try to discredit you if you don't agree with them. And they try to tell you why you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And I feel like that is more prevalent than it's ever been. So I don't know that any of these conversations with people from different camps of these players, I don't know that you get anybody to really genuinely be like, well, yeah, you know what?

Actually, I see where you're coming from. And, you know, if you vote that way, yeah, that's valid. That makes sense. I don't know that people are doing that as much as they used to. I feel like they're just dug in. I know what I'm talking about. You don't. And that feels like more of what the tone of it all is now.

It's funny because I feel that way about rookie of the year. I can't believe Flag is favored versus Khan, who's the second best guy on a playoff team that's going to win like 46, 47 games. He's going to lead the league in threes. I think he's the key to that team in a lot of ways because he's the only one that really moves. And if he wasn't the one ever, the gravity that he brings when he moves around and how defenses react to him, you, you have to have it for, for how they play. And if you don't, it's just a bunch of guys standing around watching LaMello dribble.

And then Flag, who I think is, I love Flag. He's fantastic. But he's doing this on a, on a basically a tanking lottery team that's going to win 25 games. And now is trying to build their team around him trying to win the award. And it's like, if you want to vote for that, fine. But you have this situation of a rookie having a historic season who's really important to a team that's been one of the best teams in the league for 45 games now. And I don't understand how that's not rookie of the year because flag scores two more points a game.

It's just bizarre. I'll tell you this. Concanipple has blown my mind with like his ceiling as a player and his impact. You're 100% right first of all on how he described him with their, team. He connects all of their talent base. He connects it all because of his unique way of playing that fits with what they do. He's also more complete in other ways. And anytime you talk to Charles Learie or you just watch him, you see it. He can put it down. He can guard. He's a good rebounder. He rebounds. He's, he's, he is, you know, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, he's, he's, he's a complete

player and he's also a prolific shooter. I mean, I think he's, I think he makes more threes per game. I think I said this to you one other time, maybe. It took Curry seven years in the league to make this many threes per game. Now the league has changed. Obviously, the volume is way up. But this record at Curry, you know, whatever at numbers at, when he's done, that when he was breaking this record and surpassing 2000 and 3,000, and now 4,000, like, you're like,

oh, that's never going to be broken. And then you get a guy right out of the gate. He's going to have $2.80. If this dude plays 18 years, like some of these guys are playing now, like, hey, maybe he doesn't. But so I am shocked by how good he is, man. I really am.

By the way, it's not a rejection of flag. Like, unfortunately, he's on a bad team. And we've had years, like Tyreek Evans won on a bad team, put up stats. And I don't think Flag is a put-up stats kind of guy. Like, one of the things I love about him is he's impactful on both ends. But unfortunately, he's on a 20. 25 win team.

And if there's a better candidate... I'm going to be full disclosure with you. I am, I think, more undecided about that award than any of them.

Interesting. Because flag's so good. So here's why. Everything you said about Cinnacle is true. And I personally do, and I argue for this all the time, when it comes to some of these awards, I do think, like,

impact on a winning team should carry a lot of weight because the, circumstances and the scrutiny are completely different on a nightly basis. You're expecting to win. Like you've got more pressure on you in the fourth quarter. These shots matter. So,

and it's contributing to something bigger than yourselves in a positive direction, right? So I do think it's the matter. And that will be something that I absolutely will weigh heavily for Concanipple. The one thing I will say about Cooper Flagg, that is different to me. Like Cooper Flagg's responsibility for their team to just operate is, is you can't compare. that with like what what canyples has to do because you've got lamello ball there you've got a guy

like miller you've got other guys that can initiate offense not that he doesn't too but he's like can kind of you know he fills in the open spots around that and he's great at that and will he become a guy that can be a table setter initiator i don't know maybe he's been so damn good this year who knows what his ceiling is but cooper flag like think about their team and i know that look they're a lottery bound team and they they shut it down a while ago. So none of the games had stakes. There's nothing at play in the fourth quarters of these games.

But the bottom line is that team couldn't even operate unless Cooper Flagg created it. Right. All season. So that level of responsibility, stepping into the league as a teenager and having that level of responsibility, like, no, hey, listen, man, it's great. You can't just go out there and play and find your way in this league. We really need you to bring the ball up and, like, start our offense and finish our offense.

Can you do that, please? And also guard everybody for it. Yeah. No, I know. Everybody on the floor. So, so like that to me is like the, and I also think if you're talking about ceilings of the two players, like five years from now. Cooper flags. No question.

Flags. It has a chance to be a generational player. I agree. Totally done. He's a franchise level player. This is why I love this stuff, though, because we, they hand out 100 votes. Everybody sees it differently. I personally see it as if you can be really good.

and actually impact a winning team, I'm just going to prioritize that more. Other people will be like, well, it's not Cooper's fault that he's on a bad team. You're penalizing him. It's not like he picked the team he's on and he's played great.

So I get it. I just think for me, it's like a no-brainer I would take con. And can I, can I, can I, I have to be remiss without mentioning one more name. If this guy went to a team, nope. Oh.

If this guy went to a team that was a 27 win team and had the ball in his hip from day one, he would absolutely be in this conversation with these two guys. And that's Dylan Harper. If Dylan Harper, I'm telling you he's that good. This is a future star. Yes, I agree. If he went to a team where they just let him go, I think this year, if he was on one of these teams that, like, you know, is inconsequential.

he probably he might be 22 and 8 like literally you know he has shot he shot 59% from the field over his last 30 games wow in in 22 minutes a game when when like it's just it blows my mind at his three point shooting significantly better over that's still his weakness it's gotten better over the last six weeks or so but 59% over 30 games you can't keep the guy out of the lane he's got great vision. He's built like a tank. I just, I'm sitting there watching this guy the other night. I've seen him four or five times in person this year. And I'm just watching him. And I'm thinking, he's on a team that's contending for a championship. He still has cracked 22 minutes out of this rotation. They're perfectly comfortable with him being out there on the floor of Castle and Fox to get a blow. He's that good. And if he was on a team that let's let him go from day one, he'd be putting

up such eye-popping numbers as a rookie that he would, who knows, hell, he might be able to win the award, but he'd be right there in this conversation with these two guys. It reminds me of when Mikhail was on the Celtics, his first year, when the team just had so many guys, he was playing like 20, 21 minutes a game. But if he had just gone to another team, would have put up like 24 and 10 as a rookie. I think this is a better situation for Harper being in the situation than though. I would much rather have somebody. absolutely in huge games trying to come through because here's the thing you're not talking about

he's you know he's played 38 games he's got 40 dnps yeah and he plays seven minutes a night on the team that's contending no that that is not better but to be actually and he's played something like i think it was something like 13 or 14 straight games he's played over 20 minutes like he's averaging 22 for the year he has a ton of responsibility and opportunities in the course of the game, but it's not riding on him. And most importantly, the culture and the standard effort that this team is setting, that is so good for a young player to see it and to play consequential games right out of the gate and something really meaningful where, you know, there's a good chance this team is playing,

you know, into the conference finals at least. And you're playing a lot. There's no doubt about that. That's absolutely better than any other scenario really. you can handle it other than if you're, you know, you're starting on a team that's contending as a rookie, which is very... After 19 years, they're back.

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Stream now on Hulu on Disney Plus. Two more MVP questions. We sidetracked on Rookie of the Year. Question number four, I added this one. Is there some sort of durability minutes issue on-off numbers red flag or fairly obvious flaw with any candidate that has to be dissected at least a little? So this would be like when Jalen Brown had a candidacy. Jalen Brown would be the only one.

But he was like the on-off stuff with him, which I actually think was pretty explainable because the way they used their bench was like this pack of pit bulls that would come in. and I think it would really screw other teams up during the record season. Regardless, he's not a candidate. So the minutes... But in that kind of year, I still wouldn't expect it to be what it is.

It really is a weird number. For a guy that's had such a great year, it's really kind of strange, because it's so different than the other three. Yeah. So here the minutes is the big thing. And I think the minutes disqualify Wembe, where he's just 400 plus minutes

behind the other two guys. And I think it's just in a better situation playing the, you know, 29, 30 minutes game. All right, last one. Question five. This is a big one. Ten years from now, who will be the first player from that season who pops in your head? Every season belongs to someone

to varying degrees. So this was mostly the case for Kobe in 06 when it was like, I can't really decide. It's like, you know what I'm going to remember 10 years from now? Kobe scored 35 points a night and every night seemed to be a threat to score 80 and didn't seem necessarily even that happy and the team had a weird vibe

and you go back and look at the roster and it was pretty awful. But watching him night after night just pick teams apart, destroy them and do whatever he wanted. I'm going to remember that first. What's first for you this year as we headed to the final weekend?

It'll definitely be Wembe. I had the same. There's no question about it because, okay, look at the year that Shea's had, it's incredible, basically carbon copy last year, but even more efficient. So even better somehow. Yokic incredible again. I mean, you know, what he did last year was so historic and he's basically topped it in a lot of ways. So, but you've seen it. Yeah. You've seen it over and over again. And you kind of, like, I'm not saying that you're almost numb to it at all because we're still amazed by it every night. But you've seen it repeatedly.

What, what, Wemby right out of the gate, remember the Dallas game? When he had 40 and he had that reverse dunk where he caught the ball on the right side of the lane, diving to the rim, got fouled and then didn't take another dribble and dunk the ball behind his head on the opposite side of the right. Do you remember that play? And like the next day was this viral video clip of him. And that was like, what, game two? Yeah. maybe game one. It was like right at the first week of the season.

And that for me kind of set the tone to answer a question like this. 10 years from now, particularly what is probably to come over the next nine after this. This is like, okay, never quite seen this before. Even though these other guys are statistically doing things that are that are superior to what he's doing. It certainly offensively, it doesn't matter. It's the look of it and how different it is. is and how different it is on both ends. And you've never seen anything quite like it.

And on top of it, if this is a decade of Spurs excellence where they win some in the years they don't, they're right there. And it's another one of those runs. You're going to remember this as the beginning of that. And they got there way faster than anybody thought they could. So for me, that's an easy one to answer. Ten years from now, you're going to talk about this as like the Wembe year when the Spurs first became a contender with him.

I had the same. I wrote down the Wembe arrival, almost like it's like a movie. But yeah, that's what we'll remember. Also, he was the best player I saw in person this year and I saw everybody. That doesn't mean he's the MVP, but I just watching him patrol the defensive end

and then all the stuff he was doing offensively and watching how, you know, I was like to watch how, and I think football is good for this too with like wide receivers or running back. or whatever when defenses just are reacting to everything somebody's doing. And with him, it's just, you could just see everybody's just constantly, where is he? You five players in the court and all of them are like, wait, they have the balls.

Like, where is he? Is he there? Can I, is it safe? And then on when he's on offense, it's like, what are we going to do? Oh, no, he might post up. And they're just constantly like tiptoeing around. So I had for number two for this, Joker being Apex Joker, I do feel like this is the best version of him that we've had. Yeah. And then SGA, the crunch time stuff, I think, was pretty special with him. I actually think all three of these guys had a case for like, here's why you should remember me. SGA kind of became a villain this year.

So if I was going to think about it through the context of him, I'd be like, oh, yeah, that was the year when everybody kind of got tired. to OKC. They got pissed about the foul baiting. SGA seemed to feed off it, became this awesome crunch time guy. So all of them had the case. So all right, well, we did five questions and now I'm more confused than ever who the MVP is. I think that's where it landed. It's, it's brutal, man. And like these are all tough, man. Coach of the year is going to be tough. I think rookie here, like I said, for you, for me, that's, that's as close as it gets. And ultimately, I don't even know when the time comes to start writing these names down, like what will be, the thing that moves the needle in that direction for me,

because I think it's that tight. MVP, the all league teams, I think I got a pretty good grasp of those. I mean, guys being eliminated from contention helped. In some ways, you know, me eliminates some confusion. So I got a pretty good grip on those. All defense, I think first team,

I'm in pretty good shape. Beyond that, I think you got to start diving into it a little bit deeper. I got to do a little bit deeper dive on that. What else? Six men of the year, got a pretty good feel for that. Pretty lame category. this year for the sixth man. It's disappointing. You're just talking yourself into multiple candidates.

Yeah, I'm the same as you. I have a pretty good handle. My only thing, we can, we can end on this. As a traditionalist, I still like having a big man on each of my all-emba teams because I think it's, I know they gave us the option, just go nuts and basically make it a, I don't care if this team would never make sense. And real life is a basketball team, this would be my team. I just value the history, and especially with big men, how hard it was to pick centers, even like the Yoko Chimede year we had a couple years ago that started this stupid thing to begin with.

I just think it should be you should have a big, you should have a wing, and you should have a guard, and then two other spots. But I feel like those three are necessities. So, like for me, I'm going to have Jalen Dern and either second. or third team, probably second and Chet, third team. I'm going to have Wembe and Yokic together on the first team because I do think they could play together is weird, because Yokic is like, I don't even know what position he is. Are you a traditionalist or do you just put your five guys together?

I'm more of a traditionalist, I think. I think it's probably, you know, era I come from my age. Like it's how you view the composition of a basketball team. Yeah. You know? And I guess so, but it is, it's fine. It's not like it's something I decide on some hill I'm going to die on. I'm okay with it.

It's the way the game looks now. A lot of nights, thank God, we still do have some bigs that do a lot of damage that stay in the forefront of the conversation. So we're not just only talking about guards and wings. There are still bigs doing some great things in this league. It's just to where the league is gone. Some of it is what it is. But yes, for me, when you think of like, you know, you go back at all those years following the league, before I was even in the league.

You're growing up high school and college and you're, you love the NBA and those all NBA teams would come out. And that's what it looked like, man. And every one of those teams had a center on it. And it was cool, man. And that's how you view a basketball team. One guy in the middle, two guys in a back court and a couple of wings.

That's typically what it is. But I'm okay that they've gone in this direction. You know the irony of this? I feel like centers are more valuable than they've probably been in a long time, right? Because there's so many of them. It's made a comeback. Yeah. made it come back.

I don't think you could win the title now. Like, it'd be really interesting to the 2015-16 Warriors. You know, they still had Bogit and they still had the ability to get a little bigger. But the lineup of death with Draymond, I don't know if that lineup works in the same way now.

I just think he would have been overpowered by certain players that we just didn't have in 2015 and 16. You know what I mean? Oh, no, there's no question about it. Yeah, I totally agree with that. There are more guys now that can do damage, down there. And it's not necessarily the traditional way that it was in the 80s

and 90s when there were more guys that you threw the ball into with their back to the basket on the block with one guy on them. Like that's what the league looked like in the 90s when I played. And I played on teams like that was the priority. I'm throwing the ball to Chris Weber on the block. Joanne Howard, George Mirosan, Rashid. They're going to

get the ball. And then I'm going to I was the guy that made the entry passes because they trusted me. I wasn't going to turn it over. I was able to get it into the post. Even if they were wrestling down there, I was really good at that. Never turned it over. And then I would run through to the other side and you stand on the wing, the opposite wing and just wait.

I think of a double team. And now it's going to be by turn to shoot. Like that's kind of what offenses did. And every team kind of played that way. Even when you played like I'd play Hall of Famers like Clyde Drexler, it was like, man, this guy's a load. But at the same time, there's going to be about a four minute stretch where he's going to throw the ball into Hakeem like six times in a row.

And Reggie Miller is going to throw the ball to Rick Smith's. and the guys on the Knicks are going to throw the ball to Patrick. And like, that's what it looked like. Alonzo Morning in Miami. Dan Marley, you're going to throw the ball in there. You know, it was kind of like that. Like, you're going to, you're going to, you know,

you're going to play a certain way. Or I don't know if Marley was on those teams, but whoever the heat wings were. But it was, that's what it looked like. The ball was going down there and you played out of that. Now there are guys that do damage in the paint. There's big, but it looks different. They're more mobile.

They're moving around. They're facing. up first at the start of the possession and then rolling. They step out and shoot the three. You know, I'm watching Klingin last night, who was just a monstrous human being. And he's developed such a nice three-point shot. And they're not going to guard him. Why not?

How about Andre Drummond? Andre Drummond shooting threes now. Once that started happening. Yeah, yeah, drum. A guy that big, right? And he likes the corners. It's funny to me, man. But it's, there are bigs across the league now that are doing great things. And at one point, it looked like, man, they're like, we're going to make this extinct. Like it's not even going to exist.

No, it's so back. I really think they should change it and make it like one big, one wing, one guard, and then the other two spots are open. Like at least, because there's no basketball team that's just like playing a bunch of small guys, even a team like the Hawks that has been able to go a little smaller, but they still have either gay or Congo out there whenever they need to. And Klingin's a good example. There's a bunch of like Klingin's a type guys around the league now, you know, like Celtics have Kada. You go on through and there's a bunch

of guys that can put up like a 12-8. Even Portland, the two-headed monster, those guys, Robert Williams and Klingin are averaging 18 points and 17 rebounds a game and three blocks between the two of them. So you you're good. They play about 42 minutes I think combined. So you get

starters minutes out of these two guys and then they go small if they're not, because they don't ever play together. And 18 and 17 and three blocks? Yeah. They'll take that. And one of them can shoot. Yeah, we're good. Before we go, have you decided who you want Washington to pick with the seventh NFL draft pick?

No, no, I have not yet. I'm nervous right now. I'm nervous. I haven't decided. I do think that they're talking about the running back from Notre Dame as being a guy that maybe they go, because we have no running backs now. I mean, they've added some, but like basically they got rid of all the running backs. They had one on the roster.

And they were out of Rashad White, which I thought was a nice pickup. But they're saying that that may be what they target because most of what they did in free agency was spent defensively. Well, if you get love at seven, that's amazing because some people think he's the best guy in the draft. So you get that guy with Daniels? I know how it is a running backs. Remember when we had Alfred Morris, like his first three years in the NFL, and then that was it. Then you're gone. That's all you got.

That's all you got. So running backs, like, I get it. I mean, it's important. But at the same time, it's like, you know, you don't. know how many years those guys are even going to have. But I've read the same things that you have. And I didn't see him. I didn't watch him a lot. But I'm reading the same things that he would be an ideal pick and lucky to get him if he's available at that pick. Yeah. I personally would never take a running back in the top 10 just because of, I just feel like you can, it's almost like

how I'd never pay $30 million a year for a center that wasn't like an all-MBA center. otherwise I'm just going to try to cheat and patch guys together and do Luke Cornette for 9 million a year and go that way versus no I'm with you versus paying 30 million a year I'm not doing that I'm not using my cap for that for that for that cheaper all right legs we will so what's today's day April April 9th so we'll see you near the I know you'll pop on Zach's pot at some point during the beginning of the playoffs and we'll see you probably near the end of round one on this on this speed. Perfect, man.

You're going to be traveling a bunch, right? I got one more game on Sunday to close out the regular season. Unfortunately, it's probably not going to mean anything. Denver, San Antonio. It might mean something to Denver. It is what it is. And then playing is handled by the other networks. So we're not with that.

And then so you'll see me again. Like my first playoff game with this group with Mike Brainer, Richard Jefferson will be Saturday. Looks like Saturday the 18th, whatever, that prime time Saturday, evening game is going to be. So, and I just cannot wait, man, to get going. And then it's going to be at two or three a week, I guess. So you know what conference you do or you just bounce around?

No, you're going to bounce around the first two rounds for sure. We'll get, we'll get the West Coast covered probably, you know, if Luca had stayed healthy and if he's playing, it almost guaranteed you're going to see some Lakers. But it's different now because it's not just like us and Turner. Yeah. You've got now three different entities kind of. And so it's going to be different how they divvy up these. games and who gets what.

You know, and then obviously these markets like Boston, New York are big markets. They're going to have very meaningful games. We're going to bounce around, but then we, ESPN, ABC, have the Eastern Conference Finals this year. So once we get to that point, we will call every one of those games and then every one of the finals games, obviously. Would love nothing more than to take you to dinner in Boston during the Eastern Conference finals.

So I hope we can make that happen. Oh, I'll take you up on that. I hope my team is there. Legs, great to see you. safe travels this weekend. Thank you. Thanks, Bill. All right, thanks to Tim Legler.

Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget, rewatchables is coming Monday night. Basic Instinct. We did it live in San Francisco. We had an absolutely awesome time. It was great to see everybody. Sunday, Zach Lowe and I are coming on. Not sure the exact time yet, but we're coming on live on Netflix.

It'll be after the Masters, probably early Sunday after, early Sunday evening, Eastern time. So be ready for us. Very excited. Great sports weekend. I'll enjoy the weekend. See you Sunday.

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