The Bill Simmons Podcast - Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by J. Kyle Mann and Joe House to react to the Celtics losing Game 4 against the Knicks after Jayson Tatum went down with an injury (1:44). Then, they discuss the NBA draft lottery and the Mavericks landing pick no. 1 (13:45). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: J. Kyle Mann and Joe House Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is brought to you by Degree Deodorant. Grab the original Cool Rush at Walmart or Target today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am going to be on Zach Lowe's podcast on Tuesday late morning because he has tales from the lottery Hopefully we'll find out what happened to Jason Tatum because he got hurt at the end of game four Today and it did not seem good and we're about to talk about that As well as one of the craziest lotteries in the history of the week with Joe house and Jay calm. And that is all next first our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're live. I really wanted to cancel this. Tonight was not a good night for Celtic Fids.

Holy shit. A really tough loss in MSG. I don't know how long. J Kyle Mann is here, Joe House is here. We're gonna talk about the lottery later. We're gonna play off the next Celtics game as well. Not gonna speculate too much on the Tatum thing, but it did not look good.

Worst case scenarios in Achilles. Best case scenario was like torn ligaments in his ankle or some sort of bad ankle injury, but either way, like done for the series and God only knows for how long, what was your reaction when you saw Kyle? Did you think Achilles right away? I mean, just, I've had a lot of sports injuries, but I'm not going to pretend to know these kinds of things. But the fact that we were arguing about, you know, ankle or not, I mean, the fact that

he was neutral and there was the plant and then the reverse angle where you see the pressure and then you just kind of see him, his ankle just kind of wobble, like the stability gave out, which made me worry. And, but you and I were saying that, you know, the pain part of it was the interesting reaction because to me, I've never torn that God, you know, God willing. I don't go, go there, but, uh, he, his reaction to it was what made me think because every basketball player fears that, right?

I mean, it's, it's increasingly getting more, you know, doable and navigable, but with surgery and everything, but I think his reaction was he knew that's kind of my speculation. It was, he knew what it was and it was just that like, holy shit, why me kind of a thing. Less than a writhing in pain type thing. Yeah, house usually with the Achilles, the guy almost doesn't seem like they knew it happened and they grab like for something behind their thing.

So I was studying it like, well, he's grabbing the side of his ankle. Maybe it's not, but it doesn't look great. And the irony of it was that was one of the best games of his career up to that point. I mean, he's single-handedly kept the Celtics in that game for three plus quarters and was outrageously good. That's the bummer. We were being treated finally in this game four to the mano-e-mano that we basketball

fans deserve. We were waiting for a Brunson game, and then Tatum was there to match him, blow for blow, shot for shot, and that fourth quarter was getting very exciting down that stretch there, and that's it. It's over. The season's over for the Celtics,

and who knows what happens over the summer and next season. It looked like the Knicks were about to pull away when that play happened. And the irony, normal pass to Jalen Brown who just, you know, just didn't have it the whole night. He was fouls, turnovers, and for some reason the pass just to flex off him goes back to Tatum. Tatum jumps for it, has the injury. But the Knicks, you know, it was really just Tatum and White tonight for the Celtics.

Even before that injury, nobody else really showed up. The Porzingis minutes were horrible. The two older guys, Horford and Drew Holliday, brought nothing to the table. Prichard didn't really give them the boost off the bench. And then conversely, Brunson was awesome. Bridges made some big, big, big little eight, 10 footers. OG made a couple threes. Towns had some big minutes, even though he was getting torched on defense. Robinson had a couple rebounds. The Knicks just, how they just looked like a better all around team up until the injury.

Yeah, the poor Zinke thing was really glaring. I mean, in every facet he was slow to the ball on the glass, but what I noticed was, you know, on the season, it was a lot of Mikhail Bridges, you know, on the season, it was a lot of McKale Bridges, his strengths, his things that he's already pretty good at or just being, you know, exacerbated, I think amplified in this situation where he's really good at those dribble pull-up twos. And this is something that goes back to his Phoenix days that I remember in

particular, uh, CP3 and he would kill Porzingis with that, that left to right where they would sort of go through the middle of the snake, through the middle of that pink pick and roll and get to that dribble pull-up shot. I mean, he was just killing Porzingis with that because Porzingis wasn't moving laterally really well. Horford wasn't either, but, uh, yeah, 48.1% on the season. I looked it up, triple pull-up too. So that's his strength and man, he killed him with it.

Yeah, I was worried. I was really worried about this game for a bunch of different reasons, but the one day rest for the older guys on the Celtics versus like having the home game and then having to do it again on Wednesday night. House, when you're before the injury, you're watching it. And I was saying to you, I was worried about this game because the Knicks hadn't played a good game

in this series yet. What were the odds they were just gonna go through two weeks and not have a good game? I thought they were pretty good tonight. They were good, but you know, the key, and I'm not here to, you know, rub it in anybody's face. If, if Porzingis isn't effective and the Celtics, it makes it super duper hard for them to compete. They just don't have enough dudes. The's our injury turns out to be really impactful And of course Angus is this version of poor thing is then it's tough because the Knicks do have Six dudes they have six that's exactly the number they don't have more might maybe even just called five and a half

But they are dudes. They're all dudes and look here's the crazy thing to me. I'm looking at the numbers here How did the Knicks get up 13 more shots? They had 13 more events from the field. I know that's right. They beat him by 12 on the boards. That's the answer it's crazy because the turnovers were pretty even and the Celtics were getting to the free throw line that wasn't an issue and they both shot, you know good from three 38 percent for the Celtics, 35% for the Knicks. Those are good, good numbers, but 13 more attempts cause the Knicks owned the Boars and this is the second consecutive game where that happened.

And you know, it just goes, it's very basic. It goes, it comes back to like, you know, your dudes, who your dudes, who's going to go get a rebound when you need it. Yeah. There was one point I looked at Tatum and weight were a combined 13 for 25 from three and then the Celtics were still like down by a point. I'm like, that's not a good sign if you had told me that that was going to be the number was six minutes, seven minutes left in the fourth quarter that those two guys are going to have that and they would

still be losing. So Jalen roller coaster game before Tatum got hurt, I just thought he was so good on both sides. I mean, he had, he had five steals, two blocks, just all over the place, just over and over again, attacking towns, attacking towns, attacking towns, and, uh, and really kept them in it. And the irony would happen late was that it felt like this was going to be, you know, potentially another version of the Jason Tatum game. He's had a couple of those, like he had the game in Milwaukee, he had the game in Philly, but this was, I thought the best all around game I had seen him play.

Couple of dumb threes here and there, but for the most part, uh, was, was awesome. Did the Knicks seem like a finals team to you, Kyle? I mean, based on what's on the board. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I guess that Tatum's going to be down. Yeah. I thought, I just thought as far as brilliantly as Tatum played though, you know, he was living a tough life. I mean, you know, nine isolations on the game and a lot of it was working.

If you're, they talked a lot about on the broadcast that, you know, Carl is really vulnerable in drop. He's really vulnerable side to side, but he is decent at kind of staying down. And like, he's long enough to contest. but he is decent at kind of staying down. And like he's long enough to contest. They were talking about how he bothered to rant. Tatum just kept working hard and he wasn't really getting by him. And a lot of the shots that he was getting to, he was making them, but he

was just kind of doing his thing where he steps backwards. I don't know. It was, uh, he was, it seemed like he was burning a lot of calories to just take tough shots. Sometimes they go in, but that's just kind of the Jason Tatum experience. But hey, if they all go in and he finishes that, yeah, I definitely think it's a notch

in his legacy bullet point list. Yeah, the offense just fell apart in the last quarter and a half of the game where you could just feel it. You can feel when the ISO ball stuff starts, the balls, they stop running plays. They stop going, Oh, let's post up holiday in this player. Let's run a little pick and pop with Derek way. And it just becomes all one on one stuff clear out, you know, the one for kind of offense,

which I don't know. Well, that offense fed into a run by the Knicks. The Knicks scored 70 points in the second half. They had 37 points in the quarter. Yeah. So Brunson made some great, great, great shots. And the Celtics fell asleep to a couple of times. Like they left them open from three. They didn't switch over in time and they just kind of let him get into a groove cause you can kind of always feel when he's about to go on one of his little runs.

But I thought Bridges really helped too. You know, I didn't think Tibbs did a good job offensively the first three games, but I thought they mixed it up better in this game. It felt like everybody was a little more involved. So this could go down as we'll see what happens with Tatum, but this could go down as one of the darker Celtic days. I mean, honestly, because especially the timing of, not to mention he's at the peak of his career.

He's never had a major injury, Tatum. And if this is like a major one, it doesn't just take him out for this playoffs, but it takes him out for, I think, all next year too. As you said, he is late twenties and you just wonder, like, is he gonna be able to get back to the point that he was at tonight? So we'll find out. The shame of it is the Celtics should have just tanked

down the stretch, got themselves into the play and lost in the play in game. And then used a half of a percent chances. So like a half percent, it's a miracle what lost in the playing game and then use the half of a percent chances. So like a half percent, it's a miracle what happens in the NBA. Miracles happen. It's amazing how it shifted though, from what you're talking about, Bill, like the conversation that we were, we were on this nice. And if you're lucky, you get to have this conversation about your career and everything

has to go right. And it just speaks how difficult it is, but Tatum gets to this point in his, in his mid to late twenties where we're starting to have this conversation about like, well, what are their levels are there left? And now it's like, do we get to have that conversation again? You know, now it's shifted to like, you just spelled it out. Can he, it shifts to, can he get back? And yeah, that's, I mean, that's a huge fucking bummer, man.

Because, um, and I was just thinking, I was talking to Gahal about this before we got on that, um, can you ever remember one night where there were more fan bases that were just absolutely depressed for a wide variety of reasons than tonight? Because I can't. Somehow houses fan base didn't crack the top two for, for, uh, most of press. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens with the Tatum, but I, you know, this speaks to a, how hard, how hard

it is to win a title B, how important injury luck is and see how, how hard it is to just put together some really good years in a row. Like even to be in the finals two years in a row with how basketball is played down, how physical and intense it is. And you know, Tatum was playing 40, 43 minutes a night and doing everything. He was the leading rebounder in the team. He was guarding Brunson, you know, a few times in this series. And today he was kind of their best option to guard Brunson. He was the point forward over and over again. He's attacking the rim. I thought when Hart tripped him, I couldn't,

I thought that was a dirty play that didn't even review it. Um, but he, you know, he was getting pounded on the whole game and, uh, you know, you need some luck with this stuff. We're going to take, we're going to take a break for the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant. Remember last year people got really bad when Degree changed their cool rush formula. One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? Degree listened. They admitted they messed up.

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The real reason you guys are on is because we're going to talk a lottery. But for the I'm going on Zach low's podcast tomorrow. Um, we're going to Zach went to the lottery and I'm basically going to set picks and rebounds for him as he's going to talk about what it was like to be behind the scenes for that. So how, so you had, what were your odds? You had the second best odds? Well, it was a flat 14% for the three worst teams. That's how they flatten out the odds to disincentivize egregious tanking. But you know, we're allowed to curse on this thing. Please curse.

It doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't fucking matter that the fat thumb comes out when the fat thumb comes out. Now I certainly understand. There's a code and it's impossible to rig the balls except for the last 30 years have had a stunning number of, of, of miracles. I mean, let's go back to 2011 when the NBA owned the motherfucking new Orleans hornets and somehow miraculously they find an owner they the David Stern Vetoes a trade for Chris Paul to go to the Lakers because it's gonna tilt the competitive balance of the league

David Stern vetoed it for basketball reasons They finally find a buyer for the New Orleans Hornets somebody steps in and buys it from the NBA Lo and behold the New Orleans Hornets get the number one overall draft pick in the league. And it's Anthony Dave. Can you believe it? Can you believe the good luck of the, I mean, we'll just go through it. I'm not going to sit here and do the whole thing, but 2013, 2014 back to back Cleveland, number one overall picks and LeBron comes back in 2014 and that number one pick turns into Kevin Love, man That's interesting. That's some interesting history right there

2019 you forgot about 2011 when they had the decision and then the year after Cleveland won the lottery and got Harry Irving I mean, I didn't forget. I'm just saying I don't want to subject us to the entire I mean, I didn't forget. I'm just saying, I don't want to subject us to the entire litany here, but I did have Tim Donahue with me downstairs helping me remember some of these things. We're kind of mapping out, you know, some of the very interesting,

it's really a league of miracles, this NBA of ours. But you know, yes, New Orleans trades Anthony Davis to the Lakers and miraculous. It's another miracle. I mean, you know, a league full of miracles. They jump, New Orleans jumps from the seventh spot in terms of the pre-draft where they should have been right up to the number one. So the best way to get the pick is to trade your best guy to the Lakers and then the miracles

will align. But first of all, you're a sacrifice to fat and cash. You're the son of a bitch who said that this was all going to happen back in March. I know. We had a worst contracts pod and I did a 35 second spiel on how we had to bet on Dallas to win the lottery because it was clearly how we were headed. It's all in one of the podcasts. And House is like, come on, that's crazy. And it's like, it's not crazy. It's like a hundred,

one odds. Let's bet it. Of course we didn't bet it. No, we didn't bet it. 40 to one today. Should have bedded. Come in. Uh, I had a whole conspiracy bill outfit I was going to wear that my daughter helped picked out, but I'm so depressed after the Tatum thing. I'm not, I'm not doing any props. I'm just doing a cry on your, on your props. Yeah. I, uh, I'm not going to wear the props, but, um, this was just a hilarious outcome.

I just, I couldn't believe it when they, when they leapt into the top four, first of all, who, who did the, uh, who did it for me? It's been Kevin to Gandhi. He screwed up. He said Philly lost their pick. And Philly had it. We hadn't even found out what was gonna happen. And then Philly goes in there. So we have three people jump into there and it's Dallas, San Antonio, Philly, and then Charlotte was the only one that belonged. And it's just we go to commercial and it's like, come on.

Dallas isn't gonna win this. Come on. There's no way. There's no way this is gonna be the outcome. Stop it, come on. What were you thinking as we got to the final four, other than our buddy Charks? Oh well, I was gonna say, if you saw like a live satellite image, I'm sure there were just like fires

that just sort of lit up all across the map during that commercial break. Oh God. I noted in my notes, my notes are pretty funny here. Well, at first I was just like, why is Zion repping the Pelicans? And then Chicago, well, when Dallas started to climb at like 10, I guess, I noted it.

I was like, whoa. I was like, even then I was, and then as they discontinued, you know, the Wizards obviously plummet, the Jazz plummet. It remind, what Nico has done here, it reminded me of his ability to, you know, navigate is the heavy, heaviest quotes imaginable for him to go from that to where we were tonight. It reminded me of my wife and I were on the interstate in like a torrential

downpour one time in this minivan lost control and hydroplained and somehow miraculously avoided hitting another car. And the minivan we watched go up ahead of us and there happened to be a ramp for a tow truck on the side of the road and the minivan came to a complete stop unharmed on the ramp on the side of the road and we were like how the fuck it was like final destination that's the equivalent of what Nico just did like he somehow survived did he survived I think we've opened up a whole like there's a whole other slew of questions

and options from here. But I mean, it's just, it's brutal. I mean, I can't help but think of the fans that have, I don't know what is ethical. Rob tweeted out that there are no basketball gods and this is proof of it. And that's kind of how I'm feeling right now. I'm feeling, I'm feeling the-

This is the all time night for me to feel that way. Yeah, listen, they had 8.5% odds to move into the top four and 1.8 to win the thing. So we went in a commercial. I was like, all right, 8.5 makes sense. Charlotte had 14. Charlotte's probably going to win Dallas. We'll get like two, three or four. I was more mad that Philly somehow got, you know, got their bacon saved and ended up staying in the top six.

I think that was another thing house for conspiracy build. They couldn't let OKC have the seventh pick in the draft. They had to maybe do something on that. But I mean, I'll just interrupt you for a second. This is another miracle. Darryl Morey and Nico Harrison both get rewarded. Two of the top three worst contract responsible for the worst outcomes in terms of their franchises during the course of

this season and both it's just a miracle that both of them you know land where they land. I mean JKM had to use a real-life miracle to make the analogy to the miracle. I liked yours over text Joe I don't know if you're willing to say it, but yours was I'll give you the actual numbers 0.014 for that top three to go the way it did which I think I think says it all and Utah somehow falls to five and House's stupid team the Wizards who were either one of the worst or second worst teams of the season and They fought a six And you can't make this shit up us. I mean I

Have the good fortune of going on with Kyle on the NBA Draft show last week and he was very kind. He said let's let's do a state of the Wizards Within all reason we think that they're's do a state of the wizards. Um, within all reason, we think that they're going to get one of the top four picks, like at the very outside, you know what pick we didn't discuss under any circumstances whatsoever? The six fucking pick. We didn't talk about number six. You didn't talk about three teams jumping you? We, we, we didn't, we didn't because we were four teams. Yeah. I thought we played the karma game pretty wisely. I mean, you know, we were four teams. Yeah, I thought we played the karma game pretty wisely

I mean, I you know, we were conceding like probably not the first let's talk about some of the lower guys But I just study and conceive of this outcome house. I'm sorry, man Really sorry because it's inconceivable really when it comes through. Can we go through some of the Dallas stuff? Topic number one Did Dallas now win the trade? They traded Anthony Davis or they traded Luka Donchich for Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag. If I presented that trade to you in January,

we at least would have had a phone call about the house. Sure. Like it. I'm not saying they intentionally won the trade. I'm just saying history, the way it works out. It's like, all right, if we're going to trade Luka Dajic, we get Anthony Davis and Cooper Flagg. It really, you know, just makes you really wonder because it was a no bid trade, right?

He didn't go around and canvas the league. There's not a lot of evidence that other teams were consulted. What would you be willing to give up for, for Luca? A trade that everybody thought was the fishiest trade in the history of the league, but it happened and now it's paid off for now. So Kyle, just on paper, Anthony Davis and Cooper flag for Luca Donchich is in the realm of a fair basketball trade. Yeah. I mean, I don't bristle so much at that.

Yeah. I'm just like, yeah, we have something for now and we have something in Cooper flag. Odds are he'll be ready to go sooner than later based on everything that we've seen, but you can kind of bring him in. He didn't seem happy. Didn't seem happy, by the way.

Yeah, Cooper? Did you notice the look on his face? Two things, two things. First of all, there's no way that Nico doesn't take Cooper, right? That would be the funniest thing. He took say it's Ace Bailey. Well, he loves defense. Would that be Cooper, right? That would be the funniest thing. He took, he loves defense. Would that be the funniest thing?

That would be the funniest thing. Now, the second thing is Dallas isn't a great fit for a brand new play. Like the other only other young guy there timeline wise is lively. Like they're super in transition. They don't have a point guard. They don't have a starting point guard right now. Kyle, just make the 45 second case that how much better he is than the next possible prospect in the lottery.

Like you have to take him, right? Yeah. The simplest way to put it is he's the most well-rounded prospect of my, I mean, other than he's on a short list. I would say him and LeBron I'm saying, but LeBron had the shooting issues. He had a lot of things to figure out. Even though the highs are higher with some of the guys, but it's just Cooper is the most well-rounded prospect

of my lifetime. That's the simplest way to put it. And the other guys in this. And he grew an inch. And he has offensive upside to max out in some different areas. We just haven't seen a lot of guys like that. So the big question for the Mavs for me

is just what's nailed down? I mean, are they gonna to just completely start over? You know, because it's like Kyrie's coming back. What, what is out of the realm of possibility for them in terms of what they could, what they could do to just, uh, to, you know, springboard off of this. Well, and then the other thing with him, he just turned 18. Like yeah, he grew, he grew cause he just turned 18. I mean, he's a young, young, young fella, but go ahead.

Right. He's still taking like the long naps and getting up at three in the afternoon. I think he can play right away next year and be good. So for what they're, what they're trying to do, the question for me now is, could they flip Gafford or Lively and try to get one more score and try to buy time and, and just be in the playoff picture and then hope that Kyrie can come back April range and be in really good shape. I do wonder, there's two trades. Actually there's three trades and I don't think they should trade flag.

I think they should keep them. I'm just going to say that. Yeah. But would you, would you trade them to get Luca back would be the first trade? That would be the funniest outcome of all that. That's the funniest. No. That would be hilarious. I mean, they'd have to throw in contracts,

but like, what would the Lakers do if they called and said, hey, we want Luca back, we'll give you Cooper flag and some contracts. Second, now, can I, I just, I'll do a quick Yanis thing. That story today, I don't know what the hell that story was about Yanis is now open to discussions about maybe what can happen down the road in the summer and the season. Did he ask for a trade? No. He's actively open-minded Bill. Have you never found yourself in that?

His future. Who the fuck is it? And by the way, he almost asked for a trade two years ago. I would assume every player who's one of the best players in the league who hasn't made the conference finals in four years and who the second best player in his team just had a season ending injury and probably isn't playing next year. I would assume they're probably open-minded about some things about their future. Did he ask for a trade? No.

How is this a story? This is what I call the Monday news thump house. We have the Friday news dump. The Monday news thump. I'm dying. I'm dying. Monday news thump. Let's start the news cycle on a Monday morning with a story that's not really a story, but

we get a whole day of conversation out of it. You know who was actively open-minded? Frank in White Lotus. And Rockwell. He was actively open-minded. I was trying to think of a go into that. Frank in White Lotus, and Rockwell. He was actively open-minded. I was trying to think of a go into that. If I had a couple more tricks tonight, I'd tell you about how actively open-minded I am.

I'm only laughing so I don't cry. What a terrible offense. Great job. Great job, Janis. I think you could ask Nico before the lottery and he would have said he was actively open-minded about getting the number one pick. It's just like, yeah, well, just, Oh wait, so Yanis is open-minded about maybe some other alternatives than playing for a 43 and 39 team. Really? He's going to take some time to think about that. Anyway, if they tried to offer this pick for Yanis,

which would be more on the timeline that Kyle may have mentioned. You said Thailand. And Thailand. So I put it in the paper for a white guy who looked like me. They'd have to match some contracts back, but Anthony Davis with Giannis, that's not nothing. And then the third thing is, and I don't think they should do this either. So I vote no on the first two trades.

What would they have to throw in with the number two, if you're San Antonio to move up one spot? Oh my God. Now it gets interesting if you really, and again, I would not trade flag, but if San Antonio was like, we'll just flip spots and here's a whole bunch of stuff. Like they have a war chest of picks. I probably would include anyone except Castle and obviously Wemba Nyama. But what I just wonder like could Dallas like actually turn this into a real haul and you know.

You didn't exclude the Aaron Fox. You put him on the table. Well what am I going to do with him and Kyrie? Kyrie is still on the team. Kyrie ain't playing next year, buddy. I know, I know he's not. The air and Fox could play. Interesting to see if Kyrie is ever the same again, but I'm not ready to assume that at

his age. I just think the Mavs, the Mavs, the more you think about the roster, they are going to have some, they have some dissonance in the Gafford. I know that it's kind of up in the air, the Gafford lively AD like flag thing, even if they did somehow get into the honest conversation, Yannis and AD is fun to think about, but do we, do we talk about the aging curve for Yannis enough? Though he's 31 years old. He's a heavily downhill player.

Do you know the shooting? Can't really shoot. Yeah. It is how is it? I love him to death, but I just wonder how his game is going to age. And you think you just start to think about. Trading him and what's, what's the upside? How much time are you really going to get?

I don't know about, I don't know about everything. Yeah, let's go. Could you play him at small forward? Yeah. Why not? Totally agree. I think that's the honestly the best spot rim to get an NBA beat. Lively with Anthony Davis and flag and that's their front line and he could guard, you know,

perimeter scorers, right? And get away with it. No, why are you making gestures? I want to hear Kyle's defense of Cooper's defense. If he's going to play that shooting guard spot, you know, that small forward spot. Larry Bird, he's out guarding perimeter players in the modern NBA with the, with the slash ability of a lot of the modern NBA. What's your, what's your honest assessment, Kyle?

Jacoby and I were texting about this because he noticed that the one thing if you wanted to nitpick Cooper's defense is that he does bend at his back a little bit in his posture. He doesn't sit as low as some of it, but he is also a generationally special help defender. So the, and so if you think about having, my God, if you, if you just think about having AD and flag on the floor together, um, those are two of the best help, I mean, those are two of the best help.

I mean, those are two of the best space covering disruptive defenders. The last ever, I mean, on the same, on another thing too, is that flag is a really good lob thrower. So you're putting on the, you're putting another guy on the floor that can throw to AD. So those two things are interesting in terms of like guarding the ball. I mean, he can guard threes and fours. I don't see any problem with that.

Also, he can grow into it. Maybe he's like a 25 to 20 minutes. I, I, listen, there's no centers. Everybody needs a center. And if they wanted to shop gaffer, I mean, ironically, the Lakers are a team that could use a center. Maybe we could have a little gaffer Austin Reeves trade finally, and the labs could throw in more stuff.

Um, I, uh, Austin Reeves trade finally, the Mavs could throw in more stuff. Oh, the last Dallas thing. House mentioned earlier, they made the playing game and won the lottery. They were in the playing game and won Cooper flag. What if Memphis had just beat them? Then they're the eight seed. Remember that game? I think House said, I bet on Dallas. and one Cooper flag. What if Memphis had just beat them? Then they're the eight seed. Remember that game? I think, how's that? I bet on Dallas.

No, Memphis did beat them. That's what I'm saying. That's how they ended up in the lottery. Did we bet on Dallas in that playing game? I can't remember now. We bet on Dallas definitely to beat Sacramento. But then I think I laid away because the Memphis game was in Memphis

and it was like a chance for Memphis to prove that the whole season wasn't a waste. So I think we decided to stay away. When does fast grocery delivery through Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard. When the barbecue's lit but there's nothing to grill. When the in-laws decide that actually actually, they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer, so download the app and get delivery

in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Well, House did this earlier, and I'm going to do my version of, I'm not saying these lotteries were rigged, but if we ever found out 60 years later that a lottery was rigged, these would be my candidates. Here's my list.

Number one, Patrick Ewing, New York Knicks, 1985 with the seven envelopes and whether they froze the side of one of them. It would have been the easiest one to rig, put it that way. Number two is the Kyrie Cleveland 2011 after LeBron went to Miami. Number three was the 2019. Thanks for trading Anthony Davis to the Lakers. Now here's Zion Williamson.

Number four was, thanks for buying the New Orleans basketball team. Here's young Anthony Davis as your prize, 2012. Number four was, thanks for buying the New Orleans basketball team. Here's young Anthony Davis as your prize, 2012. Number five was the 2014. Man, LeBron just needs one more asset and he might go back to Cleveland. Ah, we'll give them the number and pick. And then number six for me would be LeBron in Cleveland in 2003.

Sending him home. Back to Ohio, home versus sending him to Memphis. So I'm not saying the NBA, the Briggs, the lotteries, I'm just saying if we ever found out 60 years from now that there was more than one shooter for JFK and there was one rigged lottery, those would be my, uh, my choices. Okay. The magic, the magic getting a penny was pretty crazy or getting Weber ultimately was pretty crazy percentage too.

Wasn't it? Wasn't it down there in the 4% or something crazy like that? But I don't know, but that's like, I mean, that works against your argument, I guess, right? Any, any freak sort of movement in the odds. Yeah. The against the arguments was how San Antonio just got Tim Duncan and Victor Wemdianna somehow.

Right. Those would be the two. Uh, San Antonio at number two, Kyle. So they're, they get a lot. I mean, there's so much basketball news today. The Knicks are up three one Tatum. God only knows how bad that injury was. We still don't know. Flag goes to Dallas.

Nico Harrison, I guess saves his job. And yet buried in underneath all of this is, oh shit, I hope San Antonio doesn't get another awesome pick and they end up getting number two, which you think is going to be Dylan Harper, right? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Um, I thought a lot about it and you know, I think for them, if San Antonio does stay in the thinking

that we were just talking about where they are definitely, they could play this a number of ways. They could play this where they could potentially look at getting a bigger piece because we know Victor is ready to roll. I mean, he's, he's, he's ready. He has been ready sooner than we thought. You know, he's already on that defensive player of the year, you know, track, they go and they get Deere and Fox to show their seriousness.

Are they going to make one more move? But I think taking Harper, if you look at it just in the right now, basketball sense, I wrote in our mock draft that just went up. If you want to check that out, we're going to talk about it more on the Ringer NBA draft show tomorrow, but he can play with Fox. He can play, he can play with any, they can bring him along slowly, uh, because he has such great positional size. But I also think that he's, if they do choose to make a move, I think he's the

best asset available. So he kind of serves both purposes because Harper isn't quite the flag level. You know, he's probably more on the Kade level of a number one pick type player. If, if, if flag wasn't there, but I think he's the most attractive asset for, if there's a team out there that is heartbroken, wants to make a move that wants to start over, let's say hypothetically, just pulling the name out of the hat, Milwaukee, a great square one starting point. I think Harper, you know, serves that purpose.

So I think they can do both there. I w I don't think I would go any other direction than Harper there. Hey, uh, news just broke that Yannis is open-minded about barbecue tonight. I would also consider Ty. House. So did Frank. House, would you... What needs to be in a Yanis trade if the number two pick is the prize of the trade to get Yanis?

What else needs to be in there? Do I have to get Castle of Ft. Milwaukee? Is it number two and I have to get both? Am I good with number two and a bunch of picks? Does Devin Vassal have to be in that trade? Who else needs to be in it for you? The hard thing is like, what are you trying to tell your fans? Isn't it better to tell your fans? We had an awesome run. Giannis was with us.

The title that he delivered, we had a once in a generation, once in a lifetime player here. He was loyal. He hasn't done anything wrong. He committed. He extended. He extended. They tried to build a good team for him to compete. If he goes, I think it's better to just be brutally bad. I just think it's better to start over as many picks as you can get. They don't have their own picks is the problem. They have to get as many picks as they can. That's that's what I'm saying. They need

every pick that they can get and just jettison everybody because otherwise, you know, what's the point of 32 wins? Like, what's the point of, you know, just just Castle is Castle and Harper on the same basically the same timeline Is that like a good starting point? Is that like prime the pump a little bit for what a rehab? Rebuild looks like you're still gonna be bad. I think those are yeah, I mean the league yeah the the bar The bar is such that I think they're still going to be bad enough to pick. And you know, I, yeah, go get the picks. But if I'm, if I'm Milwaukee in this hypothetical scenario, yeah, I'm trying

to get, I'm going to try to get Vasell. I'm trying to think, Johnson seems like he's going to be expendable to whatever they're doing here. Well, you need contracts to put in for Yana's trade is part of the problem. If I'm saying Antonio, if I think Harper is going to be this good, Wemby's what is Wemby like 21? Like what, what kind of timetable am I in anyway? Like, and I'm the king of, Hey, if you have somebody who's awesome, the

timetable should start like pretty soon, but Wemby's still pretty young. For, from Harper standpoint, like your absolute ceiling on him, could he be the second best guy on the title team? Like, is that the ceiling or would you say third best guy? I think he could be the second best. I mean, if you think the big thing for him is the dribble pull-up shooting. If he can shoot the ball off the dribble, because he shot it pretty well off the catch in a really

abysmal Rutgers offense. Like I cannot emphasize enough how bad it was. So they just had the worst coach ever? Like how do you have two top four picks? I think it's whenever, whenever, I think there are a lot of factors at play. I think whenever you're a program that doesn't typically have those types of players, I just think they, they were top heavy in the, in what they could pay for. I think just the whole rest of the supporting cash just could not. Their bigs were awful.

They're passing and it hurt Bailey even more than it hurt Harper. But yeah, I think if he can improve the dribble pull-up shooting, he gets downhill, he can pass. Tom Krenum, our show was talking about how he needs to pass with his right hand a little bit better, but you know, those are nitpicks. I think he's going to get there with me and his, his footwork in the paint is. Really, really exceptional and really, really special, special. I mean, he shot something like 72% at the rim on like really, really high.

Those that's like, you know, big guy numbers. So you had for player comps. Ron Harper. Little like a little James Harden isish? There's like a whiff of James Harden in there? I don't remember what I had in mind. We both allowed each other the liberty to make our picks so he would have to explain his thinking on it. But I kind of, I mean my one that I had in my notebook is I said that he could thread a needle between Cade Cunningham and Jalen Brunson because his feet remind me of Jalen. But he's bigger.

That sounds like James Harden. He's bigger. Yeah. I mean, he's not quite the natural passer that James is, but yeah, his downhill stuff is exceptional. Yeah. Would have been really good on the Wizards. Sorry, House.

Sorry. House, what do you want San Antonio to do? Just the long haul? Yeah, long haul. Just keep adding young pieces. Then you can maybe, maybe lower free agent in two years. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a tremendous, um, trade asset. Like I, you know, it's kind of stupid. They just acquired him and we're already,

I'm already ready to trade them, but I am ready to trade them. Yeah. But how's that? That was a wink, wink special though. What's that mean? We'll trade for you now and we'll give you a big contract in the summer or whatever that's already a done deal. So, Deere and Fox? Yeah. Harper and Fox can play together. I think.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Good. Why not? I'm here for it. I forget who said this on my pod. I really apologize.

I think it might've been Goldsberry. Can't remember. About Fox playing with Sabonis, two lefties rolling off with the, throwing the lob. Is that you Kyle, man? Somebody said that. I think Kirk said that. I remember him saying that. How weird it is to have a lefty driving left, but throwing lobs to a lefty where it's like now you have the Wemba Nyama and it just like makes more sense for the lobs. Philadelphia number three. Oh, one more thing on San Antonio. So we ended up beefing up those two teams.

We might've lost Jason Tatum tonight for a year. Cleveland's completely self-combusted and the West just, we always have, we go in these phases where it seems like finally the West we're finally going to get a league with a little more balance. And now the league feels more imbalanced than it's ever been. You know, think like we're gonna have an Indiana, New York Eastern conference finals potentially, unless the Celtics can miraculously come back, which I wouldn't necessarily bet on. But now you look at like the two best guys in this draft that everybody feels the best about. We're both going to the West combined with

Lucas still there, et cetera, et cetera. All right, Philly. So I asked you to send me a mock draft, Kyle, of just the top six or seven, and you had ace Bailey going here to Philly, who is the most polarizing high draft prospect I can remember. People don't know what to make of this dude. And I got to admit, I haven't done the full deep dive of him yet, but pretty unusual, one of those guys who could have 27 points, zero rebounds and zero assists. And that could just be his box score.

Yeah. I mean, this is one we can kind of, I think your points that you've made about him are valid based on what Maury has liked in the past. I think there's a couple of ways to think about this. If Philly. We got to say what those points were. Cause I was texting them to you. Yeah, go ahead.

I was saying Darrell loves fill the box score guys. Okay. He loves like the 18 points, eight rebounds, seven assists, three steals. And Ace. What's not to love? Ace is kind of the opposite. loves like the 18 points, eight rebounds, seven assists, three steals and ace. What's not to love? Ace is kind of the opposite. And, but Kyle, you had ace going to the Sixers anyway,

but I thought you had a good case for it. Well, I mean, if you're thinking about the Sixers and you all, I'll throw this to some of you, for you guys, for how you feel about what they're going to be thinking about, you know, are they going to make a serious run at rebooting this in the short term? I mean, you might as well, uh, in turn, well, the, the, the, the

Embiid thing's a whole other conversation, but I w I'm thinking of, if you're going to run this back and try one more time, Bailey does fit with, with what they would be doing. Cause their ball hand, their, their touches are spoken for with Embiid, with Paul George, with Maxie, with McCain when he comes back. Bailey is a guy who, for people who haven't watched him, the most similar guy in terms of his shot diet is Michael Porter Jr. and the fact that he makes a lot,

he's a non- What's face? How's your face? You both made faces. He's a tough shot maker. Yeah. And I think he's somebody, and one of his efficiencies were hurt by what we were talking about before.

He loves to, he's somebody that like at the end of the clock, he can just make something out of nothing. So he has that, but he's also a pretty good athlete. There was a lot of, Zach and I were talking about his measurement coming in. There were people that thought he was six foot 10. I had heard that he was closer to six foot eight and a quarter.

It turns out that's kind of closer to what he is, but he's somebody, he's a supplementary kind of a guy, but he's long and explosive off of one step. So he can kind of block shots. But my thing that I was saying to you about Vijay, which is what you thought, Vijay absolutely could fit the bill in what you're talking about in terms of he could,

he could turn, he's somebody that's not gonna be really role-insistent early on. He's gonna be able to play off the ball. He's a crazy athlete. He measured really well. I think it's six foot five. I need to get the exact number. We needed him to get to six foot five to be, I think the third pick, right?

Cause you were worried he was going to basically be like a two guard. Yeah. I was worried he was going to be a little bit bigger so he could guard basically every position. I was worried he was going gonna be like a Ben Gordon type where it's like, oh, he's a great athlete. And it's like, ah, shit, he's like six, two and a half with it, but no, he's, he measured well.

My thing was I kind of wondered about McCain, Maxey and Edgecomb together. I just, the way that those guys play together, they're a little on the smaller side, all three of them are. And when you're moving forward, but I, you know, I could honestly, that one, I could kind of go either way, but I thought ACE fit more into what they have right now. And he, and he could improve a lot over time.

My money would be on edgecom. Just feels like more of a Darrell pick. Hey, meanwhile, house, you're not getting either guy. That's a true story. Both of them are off the board by the time the Wizards are out. The Sixers really earned it. You know, the Sixers really, you know, they have a vision with their franchise. They're, you know, in the development.

This is my one question, and I guess I'll go into the Philly message boards to get this. What's the track record for this iteration of the Philadelphia coaching staff in terms of development? Because either ACE or Newcomb, those are both development players. They're not NBA ready, in my humble opinion.

They can come in and be on the floor, but they're not NBA competitive ready. So what is, in the first place, Philadelphia has the answer, who are we, what are we going to do this upcoming season? Are we gonna try and make a deep run in the playoffs, or is this a transition year? And then question two, how are we gonna develop this kid that we're gonna get at number three?

Or do you package three in Paul George and try to get somebody? Love that, love that. There you go. That's a Darrell Morey. It's like, hey, any interest in the last three years of Paul George's contract, but you also get the number three pick in the draft. Wait, come back.

And then, you know, I wish the Rudy was on the Zoom, so I could throw out the Franz Wagner for Paul George in number three. Oh, that's not fair. That's not a not interesting trade. What about, I mean Miami needs it more. I don't know. Miami doesn't have any assets other than Miami.

Miami has nothing. That's my favorite when people list the Yanis teams and they're like in Miami, it's like, what the fuck is Miami trading? They're checking the amount people list the Yanis teams and are like in Miami, it's like, what the fuck is Miami trading? They're checking the amount of bio for Yanis and then he has, Yanis has nobody on his team. Couple more interesting, interesting things about Philly. Two GMs saved their jobs tonight.

It feels like, cause if that pick falls to seven, I don't think Darryl gets fired tomorrow, but I think he really needed that pick. Um, now, now there's positive momentum in a whole bunch of different ways. And then Nico Harrison, obviously we were headed towards, you know, God only knows what, you know, we didn't talk about this with the Dallas piece. I forgot to mention it. I know a lot of Mavs fans, uh, I won't, I won't name two of them that have told me this, that, um, after the Luka trade just did not want to root for the team anymore. Oh, you don't say that wasn't

And then they got flag and they're like I'm still out I Don't know if I believe that you've got you got a message tonight. I don't know if I believe that I think that's just I believe that you've got you got a message tonight. I don't know if I believe that I think that's just that's somebody being wounded But I think I think they come back for flag I think they feel the way they're gonna go through the phase of Mad at Nico for it working out for him Like I think we're gonna go through that phase and then they'll slowly be softened into sort of a I don't know a blissful Nihilism or something. I don't know. It just seems like, it seems like that's the reaction immediately. Right.

It's late night on, on the BS pod. Can I say that he's the white fit? I mean, you go from, from Dirk to Luca to Cooper. There's a certain through line, a certain commonality there that seems like it might suit the situation. The league is built around luck. You can make the worst trade recent history of professional sports, and then it works out, you can be playing the best game, one of the best games of your

career and all of a sudden be rolling around in a heap. Now I'm depressed again. I can't believe this Jason Tatum thing. I feel like I'm like one of those things where I'm in shock and it hasn't set in yet, and then I'm going to look back two hours from be like, how did I do a hour-long YouTube live? It's called shock. Yeah Well, could Philly be good next year would be another question. You said positive momentum. I'm like the more we're talking about it It's like is it that positive?

Well, they got McCain come they got McCain and the number three pick coming back next year and then maybe keep your fingers crossed Who knows and be possibly sort of maybe no Let's set the over under for number of games. He plays in the regular season 2025 2026 I'll set it at 35 and a half How yeah, he's what 31 Does it matter? I don't know 30 31 32 whatever he is the new bemo Vi Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more more perks

more points more flights More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card and then some get your ticket to more with the new bemo Vi Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash VI Porter to learn more. Charlotte ends up with the fourth pick and that's going to be whoever Philly doesn't take between Bailey and Edgecombe or is that is there trade Johnson potential there? 31 by the way you said oh uh Charlotte's

fourth pick Charlotte they just changed their name yeah fourth pick Charlotte I had him take an Edgecombe because I thought that he was a nice um he's a nice balance between if they really are going to lean in and keep keep keep the Brandon Miller, LaMelo thing going, that's those two are God big wings who can handle and pass and, and dribble, pull up shoot. I think they needed somebody to get downhill. They really need something to balance out that trio. And I think edge comb is a guy who is less, uh, usage insistent compared to those two guys.

I think he'll be happy to play the role that he'll play. So I, and also he's, he's a lot of threat too. I don't think people understand. I compared him to, uh, the way he jumps, he's incredibly fast off the floor. I don't, how have you gotten to even see edge comb yet? Just he is fucking Superman. I did, I did, I did the work too. Cause I thought we were going to get one, two or three.

I was saving my edge come. I was like, Oh, downside scenario. I don't want to jinx it. I don't want to look at the guy who's going to get one, two or three. I was saving my edge coming. I was like, Oh, downside scenario. I don't want to jinx it. I don't want to look at the guy who's going to get taken forth. Cause my team's not going to get, you know, not going to be drafting forth little bit, you know, so no, I haven't looked at them. There's no chance he can go second, right? That you would just rule that out, cross it off.

It's not happening. Anything's possible. I mean, he. They do think Harper has second locked up. Cause I think, I think when teams work out edge comb and really look at the, it's just the kind of guy you need and the kind of guy you've needed in the NBA for 20 years, you know, he's a little, he's a shade there, roughly there are push in terms of their age.

I just think that Harper is just so much more advanced than him in terms of like his own ball creation and stuff like that. But the counter is, you know, VJ, VJ was a pretty good, if you watch him shoot the ball, he kind of looks like an athlete who has learned to shoot. It's not as natural. It's, but I'm not down. He will get there. I mean, you see like OG has developed into a great shooter, but obviously

absolute oranges on that, but I mean, VJ, I still feel like Harper is a solid number two. The Spurs though, I mean, who knows? Yeah, they always seem to kind of have their own board. And you talk to some of these teams, I've talked to teams who'd be like, you know, we had so-and-so number two and just kind of are bowled back by that. You get, you can get a little drunk and misled by the public thinking that the public discourse is the same as the behind closed doors discourse. I, and I think people would be a little shocked by how different it can be sometimes.

Well, and then you have Khan Knipple going to Utah at five. And I just want to say he's my, he's my favorite in this draft. Um, just cause I like him cause he's a listener. So shout out to him. Hey, yeah. Yeah, he listens. There's a picture of him. Um, reading my book when he's like eight years old. So he's not now my favorite part in the draft cause I'm selfish. You didn't tell me that. Did you know that from the beginning? When you only found it out last week? Cause I kept talking about how much I liked him.

Because remember I kept saying that I thought he was going to go five spots too late. But now it seems like he's not going to go five spots too late. You think he's going to go in the top seven. Yeah, I mean, he's an awesome player. I think he's going to, he's going to do both. He has great size. He can, they need passing and they need shooting. And he is going to be a great fit in that, in that sense. Like he's going to be in on him. Yeah, I that sense. Like he's going to see him. Yeah. I'm super in on him. He can play basketball. He's a, he, he, he's a Hooper.

I love that. He's always trying to get to the paint. He's not like, um, dilly dallying out here. Let me see. No, man's going downhill. He's trying to get to the paint. He's welcoming the contact. He's got that big body six seven two twenty That's a baller and you know his his instincts in terms of offensive rebounding I don't know what the numbers are. I'd let Kyle Share I just felt like he was always around the basket when Duke needed, you know a hand on a ball a tip something like that Big KK fan that leads us to the Wizards, the number six.

What do you got Kyle? I was going to say, uh, Knipple, I wanted to add this on their 49% on spot up looks this year and a 39% on off screen. Yeah. He's a, he's a dynamic shooter. And how old is he? Is he, what's, what's the age for him? Uh, Knipp it was almost 20.

Yeah. But it can vary a lot. That makes it. The picture of him reading my book. That's amazing. Yeah. But let's get Utah to send us. I'm going to have them on.

I got to have them on. Right. Well, I want to, I want to can nipple Jersey, get Utah to send us. He's my favorite player. It's a picture of him as a kid reading my book. That's all I need. I don't need any other, any other data. And I can corroborate Bill texted well before he got that.

I did. I just, you could just tell, you know, my certain, the people who are always moving without the ball and are additive. Those are always the guys I'm going to be drawn to. So number six. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. House didn't seem to like this, but I was thinking, I think there could be some serious movement. I think there could be, I like the hypothetical of what they could add here because Saar is this hypothetical, there's that word again, take a drink, stretch big. He obviously is not super comfortable around the basket yet,

playing with force. That's been an issue. Are you waiting for me to call on you? No, I'm waiting because I am going to surprise you. So please complete your thought. I think they have a chance here. Now that you've fallen, you can really lean into an identity of just being gigantic. I think that if you put Mala Watch next to SAR next to Kula Bali, that

already is a crazy young, huge front court, but also at six, I could see like Atlanta really needs a guy like Mala Watch. I could see them. I could see somebody reaching up if that, who needs an anchor. Like they're one example. I haven't heard a ton of buzz about that, but that's, uh, that's one just kind of hypothetical idea that, that I was thinking about for the, for the whiz. Lean into being huge.

I fucking love Milo watch. Not only do I love him, this is an honest, honest to God truth. I tried to make the case for him during the NCAA tournament because of how impactful he was controlling the defensive boards and his shot blocking early in the tournament. I tried to convince my guys on East coast bias to join me on like, I think it was like 175 to one for him to win most outstanding player in the final four because the way that he can control the on defense, the impactfulness, I think it's an incredible fit.

He's exactly on the timeline that these young guys are on. They're all basically the same age between 18 and a half and 20 and a half at best. And he, they, what they are missing is indeed a defensive presence, a low post shot block, a rim protector. Cause Sar wants to be out on the perimeter and that's fine. His feet are good. He can go out and defend threes and fours a little bit. And cool, Bobby, you know, if he just needs,

he needs a little more ass on him. I might have to take him out eating here in DC. I got some spots for him. Need some calories for the man. But isn't the whole point of Sar is like, he's basically could be Serge Ibaka, right? So you can play those two together. Absolutely you can. Yes. Yeah, it's just, I don't think he gets past six.

I'd be surprised. And I've done admittedly not nearly enough work on this draft yet, but it felt, it felt like the five guys. And then I would throw in, I think Trey Johnson's going to go, I, I think you probably have Kniepel two spots too high. I think I'd be surprised if he goes top five because I think Trey Johnson's going to go, I, I, I think you probably have canipal two spots too high. I think I'd be surprised if he goes top five, cause I think Trey Johnson will be the other one that rises up. And I think teams will, and I say this, having the most canipal stock as we get

closer to the draft, he's the type of guy teams start talking themselves out of because they go to the combine. So I'm like, Oh man, this guy jumped 43 inches. Oh, now I have a fifth. Uh, start looking at those spreadsheets and talking to yourself. There's going to be two guys that climb. Right. And so Kniepel will probably in that seven to nine range would be my guess,

which, um, by the way, some, some decent teams in there, including the ones poor Brooklyn, by the way, not poor Brooklyn, cause they, it was all self afflicted, but you know, they, they, they were trying to tank more than anybody. Their coach was Dennis Schroeder. They had these guys winning games early. They had, they had to get rid of guys, dump guys, and then ended up kind of in the vicinity of everybody else. And now they're eight. So not awesome. Uh,

and then the other one was Houston, I guess that had it, you know, had, was having dreams of maybe climbing up in the top four, but was not able to do that. All right, house. So it seems like we figured out who you want to draft. I love it. I love it. I made it to guy. Yes.

Out of all the possibilities that that would help, um, soothe some of these wounds, he did suggest that we draw a butthole for the guide though. I just think people should know that. I don't know how. No, no, it wasn't with respect to any particular player that may be there. Just your anger. My suggestion was there was an artistic rendering

for sort of each player. And my recommendation to Kyle was for six, for Washington, for them falling there, just take, do a pencil etching of my butthole. Just put that in there. You don't need the face of any, I don't want the reference image for that. So, you know, I don't know. No, I don't know.

Lotus gets it. Frank, uh, Bill, is this a normal thing is angry how he gets increased. The graph of, of Joe being angry and his funniness, the lines just kind of go side by side If you're doing the house formula, there's probably some cocktails were there Yeah, man, it's my birthday. It's for another Today I should probably know that since we've been friends since 1988. We're old man. We were good middle-aged We don't be counting. We made it to another birthday house. I know. It's another excuse to go grab a couple of drinks. I'll tell you that much. And I did have a couple.

And then I doubled when I saw that we fell to six. But we're in good shape. For a birthday present that Adam Solver delivered the number six pick to house. Pencil etching of my butthole. Alright. We're going to pack it in. Thanks for joining me. Don't forget I'm going to be on Zach Low's podcast tomorrow. He's going to talk about behind the scenes.

He said it was pretty crazy as people were realizing what was happening with the balls. So I'll be on there tomorrow. Thanks to Gahau. Thanks to Eduardo as well. I really hope by some sort of miracle Jason Tatum, it wasn't as bad as it seemed, but I guess we will find out tomorrow morning. Thanks to everybody who stayed on the YouTube stream as well. See you next time.

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